Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: snip So they are by definition to me of equal value. It is just that I had to learn about the absolute value and experience it in a reliable way in this lifetime, so it has greater value this time around, but from a generic point of view they are equal. Or they are not two things, but one thing, and saying they are equal misses that IT is. Brahman is not the relative. Brahman is not the Absolute. Brahman is not both the relative and the Absolute. Brahman is not neither the relative nor the Absolute. --Nagarjuna But a hit on a unfiltered Camel is divine. Nisargadatta? opps, yes, that is whom I meant. Heavy smoker and sold cigs for a living, as I understand. Do you see that as a contradiction for someone established in Being? It appears to be, but that's more a concept held by the mind than anything to do with Being. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: snip The way all of this makes sense to me is both the absolute and relative 'pieces' of existence are equal, because it is through the relative that I can perceive the absolute, Which implies, if i understand you, that you need a nervous system, a refinedone at that, to percieve the absolute. Dr. Pete strenuously disagrees. Someone is misprecieving whats going on. The relationship between what Peter says and what I have said is that I need my eyes to see (Jim), but I can only see if my eyes are open (Peter). I don't see how that addreses peters contention that a nervous system is not necessary to percieve the absolute, that refinement of the nervous system has nothing to do with perceiving Pure Consciousness. Hi, Peter will have to continue this if he wants to. What I argue is that you can't build a conceptual model of the mechanics of Self realization using concepts grounded in waking state. Self realization understood through waking state concepts is usually a useful fiction used to facilitate your commitment to a particular spiritual practice. Once realization has occured the fiction is automatically dropped because it no longer has any meaning. I also argue that pure consciousness is not dependent upon any relative aspect of existence (e.g., a nervous system) to experience its own nature. Consciousness is supportless. Consciousness is the support, as it were, of all relative existence. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: opps, yes, that is whom I meant. Heavy smoker and sold cigs for a living, as I understand. Do you see that as a contradiction for someone established in Being? It appears to be, but that's more a concept held by the mind than anything to do with Being. Oh, dear, doctor peter, Is that a concept held in your mind? Or do you feel that your self-proclaimed mind reading skills are beyond the mind? (Mindless perhaps, I agree.) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wether a film is real or not real, the real issue is, that most of the movies created today aren't worth watching. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: And, just because something changes means it's therefore not real? Its not a real as something permanent. And you appear to view everything as changing. Its a view where identity continues with a new form. I tend to look at it differently. The carrot on my plate is no longer thre. You can continue to call it a carrot as it moves through my bowels, is processed in a sewage plant, and is scattered who knows where. i tend to say that THAT carrot not longer exists. For a few months it was here. Over the last6 billion years, most of the time it was not. Perhaps real is not the best word to descibe that. Unsubstantial? Not as substantial as a sequoia redwood. Or a glacier. Or the earth. Or the universe. And even all of those emerge then die. None as substantial as that which remains. I agree that substantial is a better word than real, but, are you equating substance with value? I.e., do you attach more value to that which changes less? 'Cuz IMO, the split-second smile of a child can be every bit as valuable as a mountain that has stood for millions of years. But that doesn't not mean i am anti-carrots. I love them. And I love films. Though I know they are an illusion. I love many things that come and go. Why would owning up to their impermanence have anything to do with not liking them? That you apparently find anyone who sees things as impermanent or an illusion as being anti- that thing is both surprising and interesting. Again, this goes back to the use of real. I think to declare the relative as unreal is to devalue it, and devaluing is, IMO, anti. And, I think devaluing the relative is what leads to toxic religious dogmas that declare our humanness to be sinful and that normal desires should be repressed. i understand your latter point. But to me, your arguement does not follow. Such zealots are making the same mistake as one who thinks that because a film is not real that it has no value and should be banned. Just because there are nut cases who might argue such things, doesn't diminish the fact that the film is a piece of celluloid in a canister --- and not really what it appears to be. And just because some realize that the film is not really what it appears to be, does not imply in any way that they hate films. Most film goers love films -- but still realize its limited nature. And while substantial is better than real it still is not the best word. And no, saying less substantial does not mean less value. Though valuations get tricky. Do you value one single bacteria cell as much as a giant sequoia? i don't, perhaps thats my shame to bear. :) And there is the capture the fort concept which to me still makes sense from some angles. Is the fort of greater value than one of many precious metal mines within the territory of the fort. (and this is a non-oppresive, diverse, and organic fort mind you). To say the fort has more value than one gold mine, does not ina any way imply that the gold mine is not fabulous. or that we don't love the gold mine. if some mentally-challenged religous zealot things so, that is no reason to be as irrational and say the gold mine and the fort are of equal value. Or that the gold mine has more value. Anyway, now that Rory has cognized the vedic correlates to the genitals, its all OK. :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
Abutilon108, It was Gangaji's use of language that made me say that hypnotic states were being invoked. Same with MMY or the Tarrot reader down the street. It is a style of language designed to shift awareness, not to inform about specifics, and it follows very precise and obvious rules. Turqs' points bring out some more interesting depth about what is meant by hypnotic states vs the various models of higher states of consciousness. I don't think the jury is in about what hypnotic states mean, or how they relate to the concept of higher states in traditional cultures. I can be sure that someone is using hypnotic language, but I am not sure about what states that invokes or what it all means. It may be two ways of looking at the same thing. When I say that my experiences in TM can be explained by hypnosis, I don't mean it in a flip reductionist's view that it is just hypnosis as if that word magically reduces the experiences people have to pure hokum.One of my goals in posting here is to re-visit my understanding of these states and to think about them. One thing I do believe is that once hypnotic states are in play, then they come with some of the limitations and conditions that we do know something about from work from guys like Milton Erickson and the NLP guys Grinder and Bandler who studied his work in order to teach the techniques and language form to therapists. The content of those subjective experiences is extremely fluid and our ability to distinguish between something we experience outside ourselves and something we internally generate, with or without conscious participation is severely impaired. The false memory syndrome of abuse which sent many people to jail wrongly is a cautionary tale concerning how important it is to know the limits of gaining knowledge once hypnotic states are invoked. The reliability of knowledge isn't just an academic question. Another example is that hypnotic therapy techniques have been found to be very quick in making a person believe they have solved a personal problem that does not hold up over time. When I studied hypnotic therapy, it lead me to the conclusion that the use of hypnotic language in the TM teaching process, and in the techniques themselves, would have to be taken into account in my understanding of how those experiences should effect my epistemology. I was forced to re-assess how I should view the experiences I was having with those techniques. I don't think that the relatively new area of hypnosis has all the answers, just that it should be taken into consideration. Guys like Milton Erickson are, for me, at least as profound a contributer to the understanding of human consciousness as any of the Indian gurus. Although I have an obvious bias towards the hypnosis theory perspective on my own subjective experiences in TM over MMY's version, I am aware that there is a whole lot more interesting consciousness expansion information in these ancient systems. If we can get beyond the words used there is much to be learned from both perspectives that could be valuable. Thanks for your response. This topic fascinates me and any insights you or anyone else wants to share would be appreciated. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, abutilon108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Thanks for your impressions. The language form she uses is clearly meant to shift states of awareness. It would work better in a room where you didn't have other entertainment options pulling at you, I suspect. It is deadly on TV with a remote in my hand. But is does seem to utilize some good hypnotic therapy techniques, so it doesn't surprise me that people find it has value. Some of her sessions seem like watching someone in therapy going through a process. Thank you so much for this observation, Curtis. I was very involved with Gangaji for several years, and still find myself processing the experience from time to time, just as I do my many years of involvement with the TMO. This is very insightful. I had been quite captivated by her for some time, but finally came to feel that she had a way of producing experiences in people which they took for awakening. Of course, everyone has a different idea of what awakening is, and I do also wonder what Rick meant when he said people had awakened with her (and also what evidence there is for that awakening.) In any case, it seemed what Gangaji had experienced was transitory - like any experience that comes and goes. It seems to me that awakening, to be a truly meaningful shift, would entail a transition that is permanent. Gangaji always emphasized the need for vigilance -- that a person would have an awakening that they would then need to sustain through a process of vigilance. In other words, this awakening could occur and then be lost without effort to maintain it. The description of
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Although I have an obvious bias towards the hypnosis theory perspective on my own subjective experiences in TM over MMY's version, I am aware that there is a whole lot more interesting consciousness expansion information in these ancient systems. If we can get beyond the words used there is much to be learned from both perspectives that could be valuable. Thanks for your response. This topic fascinates me and any insights you or anyone else wants to share would be appreciated. Just as a data point, I'm one of those people who is extremely resistant to hypnosis, but that didn't seem to interfere with my TM experience. It may or may not be relevant in this context that I had very little success generating alpha waves on an EEG machine when I took a biofeedback course (pre-TM). There was a distinct element of what I think you would call hypnotic induction in the instructions. And a caveat: You're coming awfully close to using hypnosis to mean anything that alters one's state of consciousness. The broader you make your use of the term, the less meaningful it becomes, and the less useful for drawing the kinds of distinctions you're looking to make. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
Judy, Erickon's work extended its effectiveness into the group usually thought to be resistant to hypnosis. I don't know what version you tried, but I think being human means that you have access to these states. I don't know if anyone is resistant to the states themselves. Inducing them is up to the skill of the hypnotist. Being resistant to induction is just another category in Erickson's system. Many people who are resistant to verbal hypnotic techniques find that physical techniques like massage put them into a hypnotic state. If you have ever had a massage that the floaty state that makes the time fly by is a version of a hypnotic state. Although I agree with your caution about being overly broad in the definition of hypnosis, I am not sure that is not the same as with the definitions of the development of consciousness in traditional systems. In my understanding of hypnosis, which is very influenced by Grinder and Bandler's view, our usual state of awareness can be summed up as the percentage of attention we pay to the various sensory input, combined with our internal awareness of mental pictures,talking to ourselves, and kinesthetic awareness of our bodies. We have habits of how we spend our awareness on each of these because there is a limit to how much we can pay attention to at one time. But the activity continues outside our conscious mind, so we are still getting sensory input while ignoring it consciously, as well as phrases and images that can run internally without our being conscious of them. With that long winded intro, I come to my understanding of what a hypnotic state is: Any time we disrupt the ordinary percentages of what we pay attention to, and shift if from outward to inward, hypnotic conditions are present. We become aware of input we were ignoring and begin to pay attention to the mind's subjective ability to generate detailed experience. I know this is not definitive. But is it useful to me. If you have ever looked both ways in driving and not seen a car that was right in front of you because you were internally directed, that negative hallucination is a symptom of trance. To imagine and plan our futures or be creative, we utilize these states every day. But knowing their limits and uses seems important. There are also ways to enhance the state and I would propose that meditation is one of them. There are various depths of trance that can be achieved. I don't mean trance as a pejorative although I understand that people with a traditional model of understanding consciousness might see it that way. After all that your point is well taken. The physiological approach of differentiating states is still in its infancy, but may help in the future. Till then I think was are ALL winging it, combining our words with our experiences. I am enjoying the ride. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip Although I have an obvious bias towards the hypnosis theory perspective on my own subjective experiences in TM over MMY's version, I am aware that there is a whole lot more interesting consciousness expansion information in these ancient systems. If we can get beyond the words used there is much to be learned from both perspectives that could be valuable. Thanks for your response. This topic fascinates me and any insights you or anyone else wants to share would be appreciated. Just as a data point, I'm one of those people who is extremely resistant to hypnosis, but that didn't seem to interfere with my TM experience. It may or may not be relevant in this context that I had very little success generating alpha waves on an EEG machine when I took a biofeedback course (pre-TM). There was a distinct element of what I think you would call hypnotic induction in the instructions. And a caveat: You're coming awfully close to using hypnosis to mean anything that alters one's state of consciousness. The broader you make your use of the term, the less meaningful it becomes, and the less useful for drawing the kinds of distinctions you're looking to make. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Judy, Erickon's work extended its effectiveness into the group usually thought to be resistant to hypnosis. I don't know what version you tried, but I think being human means that you have access to these states. I don't know if anyone is resistant to the states themselves. Inducing them is up to the skill of the hypnotist. Being resistant to induction is just another category in Erickson's system. Many people who are resistant to verbal hypnotic techniques find that physical techniques like massage put them into a hypnotic state. If you have ever had a massage that the floaty state that makes the time fly by is a version of a hypnotic state. Yeah, I just don't tend to get into floaty states. Massage certainly doesn't do it. I have beeen in states where the time flies by, but as it happens, they're states of intense, active concentration and focus. The only thing that produces floaty states for me is chemicals (grass, years ago; heavy-duty pain medication; nitrous oxide at the dentist). For me, TM is neither a floaty state nor, of course, one involving active concentration. It's a very *transparent* state, not something I get lost in. Although I agree with your caution about being overly broad in the definition of hypnosis, I am not sure that is not the same as with the definitions of the development of consciousness in traditional systems. I have no idea what you mean by that. In my understanding of hypnosis, which is very influenced by Grinder and Bandler's view, our usual state of awareness can be summed up as the percentage of attention we pay to the various sensory input, combined with our internal awareness of mental pictures,talking to ourselves, and kinesthetic awareness of our bodies. We have habits of how we spend our awareness on each of these because there is a limit to how much we can pay attention to at one time. But the activity continues outside our conscious mind, so we are still getting sensory input while ignoring it consciously, as well as phrases and images that can run internally without our being conscious of them. With that long winded intro, I come to my understanding of what a hypnotic state is: Any time we disrupt the ordinary percentages of what we pay attention to, and shift if from outward to inward, hypnotic conditions are present. We become aware of input we were ignoring and begin to pay attention to the mind's subjective ability to generate detailed experience. Then you go into a hypnotic state every time you close your eyes, or even start daydreaming with your eyes open. This is exactly what I mean by an overly broad definition. To say that meditative states are really hypnotic states no longer means anything, because you've defined hypnosis in such a way as to *include* meditative states. I know this is not definitive. But is it useful to me. If you have ever looked both ways in driving and not seen a car that was right in front of you because you were internally directed, that negative hallucination is a symptom of trance. To imagine and plan our futures or be creative, we utilize these states every day. Right, we use them every day. So we've got floaty states, and intense-focus states, and planning what you're going to do tomorrow, and meditation, and daydreaming, and closing the eyes, and just about any state in which we're paying attention to some things without paying attention to other things, which is ultimately *only* state we can be in anyway, since we can never be paying attention to everything all at once. You've just defined away any kind of distinctions between these states. They're all hypnotic. We're all going around in hypnotic states all the time. But knowing their limits and uses seems important. There are also ways to enhance the state and I would propose that meditation is one of them. There are various depths of trance that can be achieved. I don't mean trance as a pejorative although I understand that people with a traditional model of understanding consciousness might see it that way. After all that your point is well taken. The physiological approach of differentiating states is still in its infancy, but may help in the future. Till then I think was are ALL winging it, combining our words with our experiences. I am enjoying the ride. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
You've just defined away any kind of distinctions between these states. They're all hypnotic. We're all going around in hypnotic states all the time. I would say we drift in an out of them all the time. We do have a preferred style of non hypnotic awareness that dominates for most people most of the time. For therapeutic purposes the levels of the trance are only important so that the work gets done. Although there are levels of trance they are only important pragmatically for the purpose. We don't have to invoke a deep trance to plan tomorrow, but we might if we wanted to go back in time and change the way we view a parent's action in our childhood for therapy. The definitions and distinctions when talking about awareness are by nature very broad and not clear cut. I think your criticism would apply to MMY's terms as well. Try the definition of CC for a comparison of how everyone is in the same boat with defining states of awareness. I would even say that the nonspecific terms he uses are right out of the hypnotic language phrase book and are not actually terms with specific meanings necessarily, they just have a Colbert-like truthiness feeling to them and they shift our states of attention. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Judy, Erickon's work extended its effectiveness into the group usually thought to be resistant to hypnosis. I don't know what version you tried, but I think being human means that you have access to these states. I don't know if anyone is resistant to the states themselves. Inducing them is up to the skill of the hypnotist. Being resistant to induction is just another category in Erickson's system. Many people who are resistant to verbal hypnotic techniques find that physical techniques like massage put them into a hypnotic state. If you have ever had a massage that the floaty state that makes the time fly by is a version of a hypnotic state. Yeah, I just don't tend to get into floaty states. Massage certainly doesn't do it. I have beeen in states where the time flies by, but as it happens, they're states of intense, active concentration and focus. The only thing that produces floaty states for me is chemicals (grass, years ago; heavy-duty pain medication; nitrous oxide at the dentist). For me, TM is neither a floaty state nor, of course, one involving active concentration. It's a very *transparent* state, not something I get lost in. Although I agree with your caution about being overly broad in the definition of hypnosis, I am not sure that is not the same as with the definitions of the development of consciousness in traditional systems. I have no idea what you mean by that. In my understanding of hypnosis, which is very influenced by Grinder and Bandler's view, our usual state of awareness can be summed up as the percentage of attention we pay to the various sensory input, combined with our internal awareness of mental pictures,talking to ourselves, and kinesthetic awareness of our bodies. We have habits of how we spend our awareness on each of these because there is a limit to how much we can pay attention to at one time. But the activity continues outside our conscious mind, so we are still getting sensory input while ignoring it consciously, as well as phrases and images that can run internally without our being conscious of them. With that long winded intro, I come to my understanding of what a hypnotic state is: Any time we disrupt the ordinary percentages of what we pay attention to, and shift if from outward to inward, hypnotic conditions are present. We become aware of input we were ignoring and begin to pay attention to the mind's subjective ability to generate detailed experience. Then you go into a hypnotic state every time you close your eyes, or even start daydreaming with your eyes open. This is exactly what I mean by an overly broad definition. To say that meditative states are really hypnotic states no longer means anything, because you've defined hypnosis in such a way as to *include* meditative states. I know this is not definitive. But is it useful to me. If you have ever looked both ways in driving and not seen a car that was right in front of you because you were internally directed, that negative hallucination is a symptom of trance. To imagine and plan our futures or be creative, we utilize these states every day. Right, we use them every day. So we've got floaty states, and intense-focus states, and planning what you're going to do tomorrow, and meditation, and daydreaming, and closing the eyes, and just about any state in which we're paying attention to some things without paying attention to other things, which is ultimately *only* state we can be in anyway,
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had very little success generating alpha waves on an EEG machine when I took a biofeedback course (pre-TM). Glad you clarified it was pre-TM because I was just about to call Bevan -- AND the Course Office. (shudder -- dark music, thunder) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip Although I have an obvious bias towards the hypnosis theory perspective on my own subjective experiences in TM over MMY's version, I am aware that there is a whole lot more interesting consciousness expansion information in these ancient systems. If we can get beyond the words used there is much to be learned from both perspectives that could be valuable. Thanks for your response. This topic fascinates me and any insights you or anyone else wants to share would be appreciated. Just as a data point, I'm one of those people who is extremely resistant to hypnosis, but that didn't seem to interfere with my TM experience. It may or may not be relevant in this context that I had very little success generating alpha waves on an EEG machine when I took a biofeedback course (pre-TM). There was a distinct element of what I think you would call hypnotic induction in the instructions. And a caveat: You're coming awfully close to using hypnosis to mean anything that alters one's state of consciousness. The broader you make your use of the term, the less meaningful it becomes, and the less useful for drawing the kinds of distinctions you're looking to make. There's no general concensus on how hypnosis affects the brain. However, none of the studies claiming to show a consistent physical effect for hypnosis that I glanced at showed the same EEG coherence pattern as TM. The REAL interesting stuff will start to happen once Fred gets the thalamus activity data collated and published. That's major, MAJOR news and if it is publicised correctly, will make TM a hot research topic. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You've just defined away any kind of distinctions between these states. They're all hypnotic. We're all going around in hypnotic states all the time. I would say we drift in an out of them all the time. We do have a preferred style of non hypnotic awareness that dominates for most people most of the time. For therapeutic purposes the levels of the trance are only important so that the work gets done. Although there are levels of trance they are only important pragmatically for the purpose. We don't have to invoke a deep trance to plan tomorrow, but we might if we wanted to go back in time and change the way we view a parent's action in our childhood for therapy. The definitions and distinctions when talking about awareness are by nature very broad and not clear cut. I think your criticism would apply to MMY's terms as well. Try the definition of CC for a comparison of how everyone is in the same boat with defining states of awareness. His definition of CC is quite distinct from ordinary awareness; it's not something you could use to apply to just any old state. I would even say that the nonspecific terms he uses are right out of the hypnotic language phrase book and are not actually terms with specific meanings necessarily, Why don't you cite some of the terms you have in mind, Curtis? they just have a Colbert-like truthiness feeling to them and they shift our states of attention. They do? I never had that experience. Do you mean you went into a trance state when you heard him describing CC? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] Any time we disrupt the ordinary percentages of what we pay attention to, and shift if from outward to inward, hypnotic conditions are present. We become aware of input we were ignoring and begin to pay attention to the mind's subjective ability to generate detailed experience. It's an interesting point, but it no longer makes any sense when you take the activity of the thalamus into account. There's no inner activity during samadhi because there's no cortical- thalamic feedback loop, or such is the implication of Fred's findings. Thinking of any kind, according to most modern theories, involves such feedback loops. Stop the looping and you stop thought. If the brain loses alertness, this is called sleep. If the brain remains alert, this is called pure consciousness. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip Although I have an obvious bias towards the hypnosis theory perspective on my own subjective experiences in TM over MMY's version, I am aware that there is a whole lot more interesting consciousness expansion information in these ancient systems. If we can get beyond the words used there is much to be learned from both perspectives that could be valuable. Thanks for your response. This topic fascinates me and any insights you or anyone else wants to share would be appreciated. Just as a data point, I'm one of those people who is extremely resistant to hypnosis, but that didn't seem to interfere with my TM experience. It may or may not be relevant in this context that I had very little success generating alpha waves on an EEG machine when I took a biofeedback course (pre-TM). There was a distinct element of what I think you would call hypnotic induction in the instructions. And a caveat: You're coming awfully close to using hypnosis to mean anything that alters one's state of consciousness. The broader you make your use of the term, the less meaningful it becomes, and the less useful for drawing the kinds of distinctions you're looking to make. There's no general concensus on how hypnosis affects the brain. However, none of the studies claiming to show a consistent physical effect for hypnosis that I glanced at showed the same EEG coherence pattern as TM. Why doesn't Fred/ MUM / anyone use brain imaging technology for studies? EEG seems so primitive compared to what is available. Is it just cost? With donors kicking up `12mil / year, long-run, it would seem a decent brain image machine could be leased / rented, begged for, collaborated on, etc. if the effects are as substanial as you believe, clear 3-D, high res, color, continuous images of thalmus, and other areas, would rock the research world. And fundingwnd indpendent studies would sky-rocket. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: [...] Any time we disrupt the ordinary percentages of what we pay attention to, and shift if from outward to inward, hypnotic conditions are present. We become aware of input we were ignoring and begin to pay attention to the mind's subjective ability to generate detailed experience. It's an interesting point, but it no longer makes any sense when you take the activity of the thalamus into account. There's no inner activity during samadhi because there's no cortical- thalamic feedback loop, or such is the implication of Fred's findings. Thinking of any kind, according to most modern theories, involves such feedback loops. Stop the looping and you stop thought. If the brain loses alertness, this is called sleep. If the brain remains alert, this is called pure consciousness. But that implies that the functioning of the nervous system underlies the experience of Pure Consciousness. And you KNOW that can't be right. Dr. Peter has emphatically declared It Ain't so, folks! So who are you going to believe. A bunch of pocket-protector wearing, white-coated, lab-rat-loving, number-crunching, published, HIH funded, nerd-a-trons, or a fun guy like Dr. Pete! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
Re: Scandal hits Gangaji --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: [...] Any time we disrupt the ordinary percentages of what we pay attention to, and shift if from outward to inward, hypnotic conditions are present. We become aware of input we were ignoring and begin to pay attention to the mind's subjective ability to generate detailed experience. It's an interesting point, but it no longer makes any sense when you take the activity of the thalamus into account. There's no inner activity during samadhi because there's no cortical- thalamic feedback loop, or such is the implication of Fred's findings. Thinking of any kind, according to most modern theories, involves such feedback loops. Stop the looping and you stop thought. If the brain loses alertness, this is called sleep. If the brain remains alert, this is called pure consciousness. But that implies that the functioning of the nervous system underlies the experience of Pure Consciousness. And you KNOW that can't be right. Dr. Peter has emphatically declared It Ain't so, folks! So who are you going to believe. A bunch of pocket-protector wearing, white-coated, lab-rat-loving, number-crunching, published, NIH funded, nerd-a-trons, or a fun guy like Dr. Pete! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: snip Although I have an obvious bias towards the hypnosis theory perspective on my own subjective experiences in TM over MMY's version, I am aware that there is a whole lot more interesting consciousness expansion information in these ancient systems. If we can get beyond the words used there is much to be learned from both perspectives that could be valuable. Thanks for your response. This topic fascinates me and any insights you or anyone else wants to share would be appreciated. Just as a data point, I'm one of those people who is extremely resistant to hypnosis, but that didn't seem to interfere with my TM experience. It may or may not be relevant in this context that I had very little success generating alpha waves on an EEG machine when I took a biofeedback course (pre-TM). There was a distinct element of what I think you would call hypnotic induction in the instructions. And a caveat: You're coming awfully close to using hypnosis to mean anything that alters one's state of consciousness. The broader you make your use of the term, the less meaningful it becomes, and the less useful for drawing the kinds of distinctions you're looking to make. There's no general concensus on how hypnosis affects the brain. However, none of the studies claiming to show a consistent physical effect for hypnosis that I glanced at showed the same EEG coherence pattern as TM. Why doesn't Fred/ MUM / anyone use brain imaging technology for studies? EEG seems so primitive compared to what is available. Is it just cost? With donors kicking up `12mil / year, long-run, it would seem a decent brain image machine could be leased / rented, begged for, collaborated on, etc. if the effects are as substanial as you believe, clear 3-D, high res, color, continuous images of thalmus, and other areas, would rock the research world. And fundingwnd indpendent studies would sky-rocket. There's several points: *the equipment is incredibly expensive--I think a state-of-the-art machine is worth as much as MUM itself. *the physical resolution is amazing (down to a few cubic milimeters with the latest equipment) but the time-resolution sucks compared to EEG--minutes vs .01 seconds-- and samadhi lasts only a few seconds to a minute. *brain scanning is invasive--you can't do unlimited takes on a person in the same day for literal fear that you will fry their brain with heat and/or radiation. That said, they ARE doing scanning in some cases, in cooperation with the U of Iowa. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for this post, Tom. There were too many posts implying Gangaji was some sort of fraud. She is one powerful woman. Some people repond to an advaitic teacher and others just get confused. I don't know if you were directing that comment at me, but I did not imply that Gangaji is a fraud. I simply posted my reaction to her. And, being more toward the Tantric end of the spectrum, I regard advaitic dismissal of the relative as a tedious exercise in denial. If the relative is such worthless illusory crap, then why not just throw the worthless illusory human body in front of an illusory freight train? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: Thanks for this post, Tom. There were too many posts implying Gangaji was some sort of fraud. She is one powerful woman. Some people repond to an advaitic teacher and others just get confused. I don't know if you were directing that comment at me, but I did not imply that Gangaji is a fraud. I simply posted my reaction to her. And, being more toward the Tantric end of the spectrum, I regard advaitic dismissal of the relative as a tedious exercise in denial. If the relative is such worthless illusory crap, then why not just throw the worthless illusory human body in front of an illusory freight train? Because its an illusory act of compassion to avoid having an illusory someone having to clean up all the illusory blood and gore. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: Thanks for this post, Tom. There were too many posts implying Gangaji was some sort of fraud. She is one powerful woman. Some people repond to an advaitic teacher and others just get confused. I don't know if you were directing that comment at me, but I did not imply that Gangaji is a fraud. I simply posted my reaction to her. And, being more toward the Tantric end of the spectrum, I regard advaitic dismissal of the relative as a tedious exercise in denial. If the relative is such worthless illusory crap, then why not just throw the worthless illusory human body in front of an illusory freight train? Because its an illusory act of compassion to avoid having an illusory someone having to clean up all the illusory blood and gore. Dismissal of the relative isn't Advaitic anyway. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: Thanks for this post, Tom. There were too many posts implying Gangaji was some sort of fraud. She is one powerful woman. Some people repond to an advaitic teacher and others just get confused. I don't know if you were directing that comment at me, but I did not imply that Gangaji is a fraud. I simply posted my reaction to her. And, being more toward the Tantric end of the spectrum, I regard advaitic dismissal of the relative as a tedious exercise in denial. If the relative is such worthless illusory crap, then why not just throw the worthless illusory human body in front of an illusory freight train? Because its an illusory act of compassion to avoid having an illusory someone having to clean up all the illusory blood and gore. Dismissal of the relative isn't Advaitic anyway. Yes. Its sort of like concluding that people who realize that films are an illusion, are people who don't like films. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: Thanks for this post, Tom. There were too many posts implying Gangaji was some sort of fraud. She is one powerful woman. Some people repond to an advaitic teacher and others just get confused. I don't know if you were directing that comment at me, but I did not imply that Gangaji is a fraud. I simply posted my reaction to her. And, being more toward the Tantric end of the spectrum, I regard advaitic dismissal of the relative as a tedious exercise in denial. If the relative is such worthless illusory crap, then why not just throw the worthless illusory human body in front of an illusory freight train? Because its an illusory act of compassion to avoid having an illusory someone having to clean up all the illusory blood and gore. Dismissal of the relative isn't Advaitic anyway. Yes. Its sort of like concluding that people who realize that films are an illusion, are people who don't like films. But the point MMY makes--and I've heard other teachers make it, so it's not just him--is not that the relative is an illusion; rather, the illusion is that the relative isn't Brahman. Your analogy works nicely either way, though. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: Thanks for this post, Tom. There were too many posts implying Gangaji was some sort of fraud. She is one powerful woman. Some people repond to an advaitic teacher and others just get confused. I don't know if you were directing that comment at me, but I did not imply that Gangaji is a fraud. I simply posted my reaction to her. And, being more toward the Tantric end of the spectrum, I regard advaitic dismissal of the relative as a tedious exercise in denial. If the relative is such worthless illusory crap, then why not just throw the worthless illusory human body in front of an illusory freight train? Because its an illusory act of compassion to avoid having an illusory someone having to clean up all the illusory blood and gore. Dismissal of the relative isn't Advaitic anyway. Yes. Its sort of like concluding that people who realize that films are an illusion, are people who don't like films. But the point MMY makes--and I've heard other teachers make it, so it's not just him--is not that the relative is an illusion; rather, the illusion is that the relative isn't Brahman. Your analogy works nicely either way, though. The words I often heard hims say is -- relative = maya: paraphrasing -- maya is that which is not. Its not that maya is an illusion, its not what it appears. Snake is really a rope. And/or -- parallel to greeks -- Hericlitus? -- its ever changing. It has no permanence. Its here today, gone tomorrow. How can one give that the status of real. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: Dismissal of the relative isn't Advaitic anyway. Yes. Its sort of like concluding that people who realize that films are an illusion, are people who don't like films. But the point MMY makes--and I've heard other teachers make it, so it's not just him--is not that the relative is an illusion; rather, the illusion is that the relative isn't Brahman. Your analogy works nicely either way, though. The words I often heard hims say is -- relative = maya: paraphrasing -- maya is that which is not. Its not that maya is an illusion, its not what it appears. Snake is really a rope. And/or -- parallel to greeks -- Hericlitus? -- its ever changing. It has no permanence. Its here today, gone tomorrow. How can one give that the status of real. Kids get it -- despite some who assert they have no spiritual interests. Thats Unreal! (dude) : -- a mantra of the current teen -20's cohort (and aslo usde by past cohorts, who dropped it and are now dazzled by the relative Thats Awesome. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And/or -- parallel to greeks -- Hericlitus? -- its ever changing. It has no permanence. Its here today, gone tomorrow. How can one give that the status of real. That is precisely the anti-relative perspective that I'm talking about. And, just because something changes means it's therefore not real? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: snip Dismissal of the relative isn't Advaitic anyway. Yes. Its sort of like concluding that people who realize that films are an illusion, are people who don't like films. But the point MMY makes--and I've heard other teachers make it, so it's not just him--is not that the relative is an illusion; rather, the illusion is that the relative isn't Brahman. Your analogy works nicely either way, though. The words I often heard hims say is -- relative = maya: paraphrasing -- maya is that which is not. Its not that maya is an illusion, its not what it appears. Right, it's Brahman. Snake is really a rope. And/or -- parallel to greeks -- Hericlitus? -- its ever changing. It has no permanence. Its here today, gone tomorrow. How can one give that the status of real. Yeah, but it's Brahman, dude. How can it *not* be real? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: And/or -- parallel to greeks -- Hericlitus? -- its ever changing. It has no permanence. Its here today, gone tomorrow. How can one give that the status of real. That is precisely the anti-relative perspective that I'm talking about. That you see that as anti- anything is interesting. And, just because something changes means it's therefore not real? Its not a real as something permanent. And you appear to view everything as changing. Its a view where identity continues with a new form. I tend to look at it differently. The carrot on my plate is no longer thre. You can continue to call it a carrot as it moves through my bowels, is processed in a sewage plant, and is scattered who knows where. i tend to say that THAT carrot not longer exists. For a few months it was here. Over the last 6 billion years, most of the time it was not. Perhaps real is not the best word to descibe that. Unsubstantial? Not as substantial as a sequoia redwood. Or a glacier. Or the earth. Or the universe. And even all of those emerge then die. None as substantial as that which remains. But that doesn't not mean i am anti-carrots. I love them. And I love films. Though I know they are an illusion. I love many things that come and go. Why would owning up to their impermanence have anything to do with not liking them? That you apparently find anyone who sees things as impermanent or an illusion as being anti- that thing is both surprising and interesting. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: Thanks for this post, Tom. There were too many posts implying Gangaji was some sort of fraud. She is one powerful woman. Some people repond to an advaitic teacher and others just get confused. I don't know if you were directing that comment at me, but I did not imply that Gangaji is a fraud. I simply posted my reaction to her. And, being more toward the Tantric end of the spectrum, I regard advaitic dismissal of the relative as a tedious exercise in denial. If the relative is such worthless illusory crap, then why not just throw the worthless illusory human body in front of an illusory freight train? Because its an illusory act of compassion to avoid having an illusory someone having to clean up all the illusory blood and gore. Dismissal of the relative isn't Advaitic anyway. Yes. Its sort of like concluding that people who realize that films are an illusion, are people who don't like films. But the point MMY makes--and I've heard other teachers make it, so it's not just him--is not that the relative is an illusion; rather, the illusion is that the relative isn't Brahman. Your analogy works nicely either way, though. The words I often heard hims say is -- relative = maya: paraphrasing -- maya is that which is not. Its not that maya is an illusion, its not what it appears. Snake is really a rope. And/or -- parallel to greeks -- Hericlitus? -- its ever changing. It has no permanence. Its here today, gone tomorrow. How can one give that the status of real. Kashmir Shiavism - how can anything unreal come from the real? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: Thanks for this post, Tom. There were too many posts implying Gangaji was some sort of fraud. She is one powerful woman. Some people repond to an advaitic teacher and others just get confused. I don't know if you were directing that comment at me, but I did not imply that Gangaji is a fraud. I simply posted my reaction to her. And, being more toward the Tantric end of the spectrum, I regard advaitic dismissal of the relative as a tedious exercise in denial. If the relative is such worthless illusory crap, then why not just throw the worthless illusory human body in front of an illusory freight train? Because its an illusory act of compassion to avoid having an illusory someone having to clean up all the illusory blood and gore. Dismissal of the relative isn't Advaitic anyway. Yes. Its sort of like concluding that people who realize that films are an illusion, are people who don't like films. But the point MMY makes--and I've heard other teachers make it, so it's not just him--is not that the relative is an illusion; rather, the illusion is that the relative isn't Brahman. Your analogy works nicely either way, though. The words I often heard hims say is -- relative = maya: paraphrasing -- maya is that which is not. Its not that maya is an illusion, its not what it appears. Snake is really a rope. And/or -- parallel to greeks -- Hericlitus? -- its ever changing. It has no permanence. Its here today, gone tomorrow. How can one give that the status of real. Kashmir Shiavism - how can anything unreal come from the real? It never came? But was a beautiful, adorable reflection from the bending / streching created by the real each morning when it gets up. :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: And/or -- parallel to greeks -- Hericlitus? -- its ever changing. It has no permanence. Its here today, gone tomorrow. How can one give that the status of real. That is precisely the anti-relative perspective that I'm talking about. That you see that as anti- anything is interesting. To me, to say the relative isn't real is to devalue it. And, just because something changes means it's therefore not real? Its not a real as something permanent. And you appear to view everything as changing. Its a view where identity continues with a new form. I tend to look at it differently. The carrot on my plate is no longer thre. You can continue to call it a carrot as it moves through my bowels, is processed in a sewage plant, and is scattered who knows where. i tend to say that THAT carrot not longer exists. For a few months it was here. Over the last6 billion years, most of the time it was not. Perhaps real is not the best word to descibe that. Unsubstantial? Not as substantial as a sequoia redwood. Or a glacier. Or the earth. Or the universe. And even all of those emerge then die. None as substantial as that which remains. I agree that substantial is a better word than real, but, are you equating substance with value? I.e., do you attach more value to that which changes less? 'Cuz IMO, the split-second smile of a child can be every bit as valuable as a mountain that has stood for millions of years. But that doesn't not mean i am anti-carrots. I love them. And I love films. Though I know they are an illusion. I love many things that come and go. Why would owning up to their impermanence have anything to do with not liking them? That you apparently find anyone who sees things as impermanent or an illusion as being anti- that thing is both surprising and interesting. Again, this goes back to the use of real. I think to declare the relative as unreal is to devalue it, and devaluing is, IMO, anti. And, I think devaluing the relative is what leads to toxic religious dogmas that declare our humanness to be sinful and that normal desires should be repressed. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: And, just because something changes means it's therefore not real? Its not a real as something permanent. And you appear to view everything as changing. Its a view where identity continues with a new form. I tend to look at it differently. The carrot on my plate is no longer thre. You can continue to call it a carrot as it moves through my bowels, is processed in a sewage plant, and is scattered who knows where. i tend to say that THAT carrot not longer exists. For a few months it was here. Over the last6 billion years, most of the time it was not. Perhaps real is not the best word to descibe that. Unsubstantial? Not as substantial as a sequoia redwood. Or a glacier. Or the earth. Or the universe. And even all of those emerge then die. None as substantial as that which remains. I agree that substantial is a better word than real, but, are you equating substance with value? I.e., do you attach more value to that which changes less? 'Cuz IMO, the split-second smile of a child can be every bit as valuable as a mountain that has stood for millions of years. But that doesn't not mean i am anti-carrots. I love them. And I love films. Though I know they are an illusion. I love many things that come and go. Why would owning up to their impermanence have anything to do with not liking them? That you apparently find anyone who sees things as impermanent or an illusion as being anti- that thing is both surprising and interesting. Again, this goes back to the use of real. I think to declare the relative as unreal is to devalue it, and devaluing is, IMO, anti. And, I think devaluing the relative is what leads to toxic religious dogmas that declare our humanness to be sinful and that normal desires should be repressed. i understand your latter point. But to me, your arguement does not follow. Such zealots are making the same mistake as one who thinks that because a film is not real that it has no value and should be banned. Just because there are nut cases who might argue such things, doesn't diminish the fact that the film is a piece of celluloid in a canister --- and not really what it appears to be. And just because some realize that the film is not really what it appears to be, does not imply in any way that they hate films. Most film goers love films -- but still realize its limited nature. And while substantial is better than real it still is not the best word. And no, saying less substantial does not mean less value. Though valuations get tricky. Do you value one single bacteria cell as much as a giant sequoia? i don't, perhaps thats my shame to bear. :) And there is the capture the fort concept which to me still makes sense from some angles. Is the fort of greater value than one of many precious metal mines within the territory of the fort. (and this is a non-oppresive, diverse, and organic fort mind you). To say the fort has more value than one gold mine, does not ina any way imply that the gold mine is not fabulous. or that we don't love the gold mine. if some mentally-challenged religous zealot things so, that is no reason to be as irrational and say the gold mine and the fort are of equal value. Or that the gold mine has more value. Anyway, now that Rory has cognized the vedic correlates to the genitals, its all OK. :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: And, just because something changes means it's therefore not real? Its not a real as something permanent. And you appear to view everything as changing. Its a view where identity continues with a new form. I tend to look at it differently. The carrot on my plate is no longer thre. You can continue to call it a carrot as it moves through my bowels, is processed in a sewage plant, and is scattered who knows where. i tend to say that THAT carrot not longer exists. For a few months it was here. Over the last6 billion years, most of the time it was not. Perhaps real is not the best word to descibe that. Unsubstantial? Not as substantial as a sequoia redwood. Or a glacier. Or the earth. Or the universe. And even all of those emerge then die. None as substantial as that which remains. I agree that substantial is a better word than real, but, are you equating substance with value? I.e., do you attach more value to that which changes less? 'Cuz IMO, the split-second smile of a child can be every bit as valuable as a mountain that has stood for millions of years. But that doesn't not mean i am anti-carrots. I love them. And I love films. Though I know they are an illusion. I love many things that come and go. Why would owning up to their impermanence have anything to do with not liking them? That you apparently find anyone who sees things as impermanent or an illusion as being anti- that thing is both surprising and interesting. Again, this goes back to the use of real. I think to declare the relative as unreal is to devalue it, and devaluing is, IMO, anti. And, I think devaluing the relative is what leads to toxic religious dogmas that declare our humanness to be sinful and that normal desires should be repressed. i understand your latter point. But to me, your arguement does not follow. Such zealots are making the same mistake as one who thinks that because a film is not real that it has no value and should be banned. Just because there are nut cases who might argue such things, doesn't diminish the fact that the film is a piece of celluloid in a canister --- and not really what it appears to be. And just because some realize that the film is not really what it appears to be, does not imply in any way that they hate films. Most film goers love films -- but still realize its limited nature. And while substantial is better than real it still is not the best word. And no, saying less substantial does not mean less value. Though valuations get tricky. Do you value one single bacteria cell as much as a giant sequoia? i don't, perhaps thats my shame to bear. :) And there is the capture the fort concept which to me still makes sense from some angles. Is the fort of greater value than one of many precious metal mines within the territory of the fort. (and this is a non-oppresive, diverse, and organic fort mind you). To say the fort has more value than one gold mine, does not ina any way imply that the gold mine is not fabulous. or that we don't love the gold mine. if some mentally-challenged religous zealot things so, that is no reason to be as irrational and say the gold mine and the fort are of equal value. Or that the gold mine has more value. Anyway, now that Rory has cognized the vedic correlates to the genitals, its all OK. :) The way all of this makes sense to me is both the absolute and relative 'pieces' of existence are equal, because it is through the relative that I can perceive the absolute, and it is the absolute that gives the relative meaning to me. So they are by definition to me of equal value. It is just that I had to learn about the absolute value and experience it in a reliable way in this lifetime, so it has greater value this time around, but from a generic point of view they are equal. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: snip So they are by definition to me of equal value. It is just that I had to learn about the absolute value and experience it in a reliable way in this lifetime, so it has greater value this time around, but from a generic point of view they are equal. Or they are not two things, but one thing, and saying they are equal misses that IT is. Brahman is not the relative. Brahman is not the Absolute. Brahman is not both the relative and the Absolute. Brahman is not neither the relative nor the Absolute. --Nagarjuna But a hit on a unfiltered Camel is divine. Nisargadatta? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: snip The way all of this makes sense to me is both the absolute and relative 'pieces' of existence are equal, because it is through the relative that I can perceive the absolute, Which implies, if i understand you, that you need a nervous system, a refinedone at that, to percieve the absolute. Dr. Pete strenuously disagrees. Someone is misprecieving whats going on. The relationship between what Peter says and what I have said is that I need my eyes to see (Jim), but I can only see if my eyes are open (Peter). and it is the absolute that gives the relative meaning to me. So they are by definition to me of equal value. It is just that I had to learn about the absolute value and experience it in a reliable way in this lifetime, so it has greater value this time around, but from a generic point of view they are equal. Or they are not two things, but one thing, and saying they are equal misses that IT is. IT is equally relative and absolute. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: snip So they are by definition to me of equal value. It is just that I had to learn about the absolute value and experience it in a reliable way in this lifetime, so it has greater value this time around, but from a generic point of view they are equal. Or they are not two things, but one thing, and saying they are equal misses that IT is. Brahman is not the relative. Brahman is not the Absolute. Brahman is not both the relative and the Absolute. Brahman is not neither the relative nor the Absolute. --Nagarjuna But a hit on a unfiltered Camel is divine. Nisargadatta? opps, yes, that is whom I meant. Heavy smoker and sold cigs for a living, as I understand. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: snip The way all of this makes sense to me is both the absolute and relative 'pieces' of existence are equal, because it is through the relative that I can perceive the absolute, Which implies, if i understand you, that you need a nervous system, a refinedone at that, to percieve the absolute. Dr. Pete strenuously disagrees. Someone is misprecieving whats going on. The relationship between what Peter says and what I have said is that I need my eyes to see (Jim), but I can only see if my eyes are open (Peter). and it is the absolute that gives the relative meaning to me. So they are by definition to me of equal value. It is just that I had to learn about the absolute value and experience it in a reliable way in this lifetime, so it has greater value this time around, but from a generic point of view they are equal. Or they are not two things, but one thing, and saying they are equal misses that IT is. IT is equally relative and absolute. Balance requires scales. Scales require containership. Containership requires that there be an inside and an outside. All this requires duality. Requires requires duality, even. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
In my fling with the dark lord, it was all about Dunhill. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: snip So they are by definition to me of equal value. It is just that I had to learn about the absolute value and experience it in a reliable way in this lifetime, so it has greater value this time around, but from a generic point of view they are equal. Or they are not two things, but one thing, and saying they are equal misses that IT is. Brahman is not the relative. Brahman is not the Absolute. Brahman is not both the relative and the Absolute. Brahman is not neither the relative nor the Absolute. --Nagarjuna But a hit on a unfiltered Camel is divine. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stanley@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: snip So they are by definition to me of equal value. It is just that I had to learn about the absolute value and experience it in a reliable way in this lifetime, so it has greater value this time around, but from a generic point of view they are equal. Or they are not two things, but one thing, and saying they are equal misses that IT is. Brahman is not the relative. Brahman is not the Absolute. Brahman is not both the relative and the Absolute. Brahman is not neither the relative nor the Absolute. --Nagarjuna But a hit on a unfiltered Camel is divine. Nisargadatta? opps, yes, that is whom I meant. Heavy smoker and sold cigs for a living, as I understand. Do you see that as a contradiction for someone established in Being? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: opps, yes, that is whom I meant. Heavy smoker and sold cigs for a living, as I understand. Do you see that as a contradiction for someone established in Being? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vor65mNB8Uk To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji on 10/12/06 5:10 PM, abutilon108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had been quite captivated by her for some time, but finally came to feel that she had a way of producing experiences in people which they took for awakening. Of course, everyone has a different idea of what awakening is, and I do also wonder what Rick meant when he said people had awakened with her (and also what evidence there is for that awakening.) Im just going by what a few friends have told me, the Nick Wolfe tape Tom Traynor referred to, Amber Terrells book, etc. I have no first-hand experience with her. I think there are many levels of awakening, some permanent, some not. I have no idea what she is able to trigger in people. That probably depends a lot on them. But she strikes me as a good, sincere person who has uplifted many. Just one of many making a contribution. Take what you need and leave the rest. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 10/12/06 5:10 PM, abutilon108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had been quite captivated by her for some time, but finally came to feel that she had a way of producing experiences in people which they took for awakening. Of course, everyone has a different idea of what awakening is, and I do also wonder what Rick meant when he said people had awakened with her (and also what evidence there is for that awakening.) I¹m just going by what a few friends have told me, the Nick Wolfe tape Tom Traynor referred to, Amber Terrell¹s book, etc. I have no first-hand experience with her. I think there are many levels of awakening, some permanent, some not. I have no idea what she is able to trigger in people. I have to quibble language here, having had a short (two days) interaction with her. At least at that time, she was adamant that she does *nothing* to trigger awakening in those who sit satsang with her. That is, she doesn't zap them with kundalini or darshan or flying woo woo rays or any of the things that lazy seekers would like teachers to do. She's just good at interacting with the seeker to point out the realization that is already present. That said, the awakening that many experience is often temporary. I don't consider that a bad thing, because it later becomes permanent as they become more comfortable with their own realization. That probably depends a lot on them. But she strikes me as a good, sincere person who has uplifted many. Just one of many making a contribution. Take what you need and leave the rest. Yup. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I never saw her in person but I¹ve seen and listened to her on tapes. I like her. She¹s helped a lot of people Awaken. River Ganga (video-well done) Who Am I (2 audio tape set) :) I've met her. I liked her personally, but loathed the people who hung around her. She'd sit in front of the room telling them that she wasn't doing *anything* to affect their realization and afterwards they'd all be talking about How powerful the darshan was tonight. Icky. Total disconnect on the part of the students to the teacher's message. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: She's one hot honey! Attractive, yes...hot? I don't think so. :-) The thang with Eli doesn't surprise me. I'm more surprised that they're still together. He had to go through a lot. Their story was that Eli went over to India to be with Papaji, with the full expectation of being named one of his teachers, and being taught how to conduct satsangs. He had been led to believe this. Gangaji, his wife, was not as into the trip as Eli was, and sorta just went along for the ride. When they got there, Papaji took one look at Gangaji and focused on her instead, making *her* the designated hitter on the satsang circuit, not Eli. So that's a lot for an ego (especially a male ego) to handle. I only was around them once, for a couple of days, and they seemed like they enjoyed being together and enjoyed each others' company, but I'm not surprised that he'd consider taking up with someone else. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excellent points! I dug your keep'n it reaaal version. Here is another version of the letter: Yeah, he banged a younger chick. Don't sweat it, Mama Ganjaji is carving her own nubile slice. She just wasn't dumb enough to nail a folower, so she gets to keep the house with the big-screen TV and dude has moved into a condo. Dumbass. Over and out. Actually, it's probably weirder than that. :-) They're probably still together, just trying to do damage control for the org because the same people who project their fantasies onto them when they're on stage are doing so again now that they're in the spotlight. This is just damage control. I think it's a smarter way to handle a situation like this than others I've seen. That is, in most cases, denying it ever happened until it can't be denied any more. Y'know...the Maharishi approach... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip So that's a lot for an ego (especially a male ego) to handle. I only was around them once, for a couple of days, and they seemed like they enjoyed being together and enjoyed each others' company, but I'm not surprised that he'd consider taking up with someone else. Funny how when Maharishi is accused of doing it, it's never called taking up with someone. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
Thanks new morning that was very very funny.A good way to start the day!Kevin While I am sure what they are doing is all good, when reading the letter I sort of felt like it was a parody of how a new age group would deal with a sex scandal. Maybe something on SNL. Or a John Stewart rift. After wave after wave of stuff they said they were going to do to help mitigate any damage to students, I expected them to say: ...and Dr Phil and Oprah will seperately will be on 24/7 call for personal counseling and griefing for each student, past, present, future, and those whoe intended to attend a lecture, but didn't get around to it, plus we are buying condos in Hawaii for all students so that they can grieve in dignity and uplifting surroundings, and a hi-def video of Eli thrashing himself with boughs of thorns on a 48-hour purification vigil, plus Possibly, it might be a good thing, if they were more authentic: Eli and Gangaji will make a public statement once Eli gets out of the hospital from the huge gash on his head from the cut crystal vase gangaji threw at him, and from the internal bleeding from the shit-kicking she gave him. For now, they offer the following thoughts: Frankly, this is a personal matter between Eli and myselfe. Get a life people. We are ordinary people. You are ordinary people. Ordinary middle age people lust after hot chicks and guys in their nubile 20's. WAKE-UP! Thats the inner truth. Its a fact of life, a fact of the Universe. Its Real. Get Real. Be Real. What do you expect when on the road lecturing, or at our centers, when adoring gorgeous fans throw themselves at you. Its one of the hazards / perks of being a new-age guru type. I have been tempted -- and have been human enough to act the feelings, not keeping them bottled up. Eli did the same. Its OUR business, not yours. If you feel betrayed, do some deep breathing -- it will pass. Wake up to Life. Celebrate Life. We do. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I went to one of her satsangs at the Best Western when she visited FF back in the '90s. People were ooohing and aing and giggling uncontrollably in response to her words, and in my mind I was like, WTF is the matter with you people? She hasn't said anything intelligent! Just gibberish and newagey fluff! I got nothing out of it, and I left, $20 poorer and feeling embarrassed for the giggling throng. I think today I'd understand what she's saying, but if she's anything like Neelam, who's also in the Papaji lineage (and, who just sits up front, dismissing everything with it is just story in her thick Polish accent), I would probably still not get anything out of it. People have different dharmas with different teachers. Ganagji is an advaitic teacher who's interaction with you is not to construct a conceptual model of enlightenment but to evoke the actual experience of enlightenment. How successful she is depends upon the person listening and their dharma with this teacher. Amber Terrel, longtime TM Gov, obviously had a very different experience with her than you did. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Gangaji Foundation 2245 Ashland St. Ashland, OR 9752 They've moved again? In the last 10 years they've been in at least 3 locations: Boulder, Stimson Beach, and now Ashland. Well, at least Eli's been committing his transgressions in nice places. Sal You know stinson beach? I grew up on the other side of the hill -- Mll Valley -- and used to ride my bike with friends up the hill then down a most incredible windy road down to Stinson. Breathtaking on several levels. Later a pack of of became, probably the first in CA, kyack surfers at Stinson -- and Bolinas -- next beach north. Great memories of stinson. Beach http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.schweich.com/images/DSCN0663sm.jpgimgrefurl=http://www.schweich.com/imagehtml/DSCN0663sm.htmlh=600w=800sz=78hl=ensig2=f3Oa0XBdeU-FJ6r84FJ-wgstart=2tbnid=3sxs4GFahY5V-M:tbnh=107tbnw=143ei=mdstRZnMLI6WJMXb1IkMprev=/images%3Fq%3Dstinson%2Bbeach%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26hs%3DrgY%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG http://www.flyzephyr.com/tam.ht3.jpg on the way http://www.indospectrum.com/travels/pt-reyes-mt-tamalpais/files/cd015_windy_road_mt_tam.html http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.quoia.net/images/photos/redwoods.jpgimgrefurl=http://www.quoia.net/directions.htmlh=391w=552sz=200hl=ensig2=WwzroSHDBVajaWbqTuaPXQstart=11tbnid=jeUg3XOvt6xqOM:tbnh=94tbnw=133ei=9tstRaPpOcrMJMnS0cIMprev=/images%3Fq%3Dstinson%2Bbeach%2Bmill%2Bvalley%2B%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26hs%3DfNt%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.willconnor.com/images/west2/mt_tamalpais.jpgimgrefurl=http://www.willconnor.com/west2_12.htmlh=296w=308sz=41hl=ensig2=zy_07YkMNVchEru2db-9vAstart=4tbnid=r8MKc3SVUxaBMM:tbnh=112tbnw=117ei=19wtRYqyFMqWJLSnrJYNprev=/images%3Fq%3Dmt%2Btamalpais%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26hs%3DzlY%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DG http://static.flickr.com/10/16370282_dad1c8458f.jpg http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://wwwenglish.ucdavis.edu/Spark/v1n1/mttam/img0033.jpgimgrefurl=http://wwwenglish.ucdavis.edu/Spark/v1n1/mttam/img0033.htmh=307w=440sz=60hl=ensig2=Ni10DgeGnk4wSBDTDzYtQAstart=162tbnid=HBmELttuUSoRcM:tbnh=89tbnw=127ei=Gt4tRfnNFrGCJbCSlaYMprev=/images%3Fq%3Dmt%2Btamalpais%26start%3D160%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26hs%3DVWt%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
Re: Scandal hits Gangaji --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Gangaji Foundation 2245 Ashland St. Ashland, OR 9752 They've moved again? In the last 10 years they've been in at least 3 locations: Boulder, Stimson Beach, and now Ashland. Well, at least Eli's been committing his transgressions in nice places. Sal You know stinson beach? I grew up on the other side of the hill -- Mll Valley -- and used to ride my bike with friends up the hill then down a most incredible windy road down to Stinson. Breathtaking on several levels. Later a pack of of became, probably the first in CA, kyack surfers at Stinson -- and Bolinas -- next beach north. Great memories of stinson. Beach http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.schweich.com/images/DSCN0663sm\ .jpgimgrefurl=http://www.schweich.com/imagehtml/DSCN0663sm.htmlh=600w=800sz=\ 78hl=ensig2=f3Oa0XBdeU-FJ6r84FJ-wgstart=2tbnid=3sxs4GFahY5V-M:tbnh=107tbnw\ =143ei=mdstRZnMLI6WJMXb1IkMprev=/images%3Fq%3Dstinson%2Bbeach%26svnum%3D10%26h\ l%3Den%26hs%3DrgY%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:officia\ l%26sa%3DG http://www.flyzephyr.com/tam.ht3.jpg on the way http://www.indospectrum.com/travels/pt-reyes-mt-tamalpais/files/cd015_windy_road\ _mt_tam.html http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.quoia.net/images/photos/redwoo\ ds.jpgimgrefurl=http://www.quoia.net/directions.htmlh=391w=552sz=200hl=ens\ ig2=WwzroSHDBVajaWbqTuaPXQstart=11tbnid=jeUg3XOvt6xqOM:tbnh=94tbnw=133ei=9t\ stRaPpOcrMJMnS0cIMprev=/images%3Fq%3Dstinson%2Bbeach%2Bmill%2Bvalley%2B%26svnum\ %3D10%26hl%3Den%26hs%3DfNt%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-U\ S:official%26sa%3DG http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.willconnor.com/images/west2/mt\ _tamalpais.jpgimgrefurl=http://www.willconnor.com/west2_12.htmlh=296w=308sz=\ 41hl=ensig2=zy_07YkMNVchEru2db-9vAstart=4tbnid=r8MKc3SVUxaBMM:tbnh=112tbnw\ =117ei=19wtRYqyFMqWJLSnrJYNprev=/images%3Fq%3Dmt%2Btamalpais%26svnum%3D10%26hl\ %3Den%26hs%3DzlY%26lr%3D%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official\ %26sa%3DG http://static.flickr.com/10/16370282_dad1c8458f.jpg http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://wwwenglish.ucdavis.edu/Spark/v1n1/\ mttam/img0033.jpgimgrefurl=http://wwwenglish.ucdavis.edu/Spark/v1n1/mttam/img00\ 33.htmh=307w=440sz=60hl=ensig2=Ni10DgeGnk4wSBDTDzYtQAstart=162tbnid=HBmEL\ ttuUSoRcM:tbnh=89tbnw=127ei=Gt4tRfnNFrGCJbCSlaYMprev=/images%3Fq%3Dmt%2Btama\ lpais%26start%3D160%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26hs%3DVWt%26lr%3D%26clie\ nt%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, indeed! Who is she? Who is Gangaji...is he somehow connected to Amma? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote: Dear Gangaji Foundation Community, It is possible that you have already heard about a heartbreaking disclosure within our community. As the Executive Director and a Board Member of the Gangaji and Leela Foundations it is essential that I share with you, in brief, what has happened and the response that is emerging. On Sunday, October 1, 2006, Eli Jaxon-Bear, founder of the Leela Foundation and Leela School as well as Gangaji¹s husband and partner, revealed to the entire Board of Directors that he breached the sanctity of the teacher/student relationship by initiating an intimate relationship with one of his students, who is also a teacher in the Leela School. This relationship lasted for three years. Eli told Gangaji about the relationship in October 2005. At the student¹s request, neither Gangaji nor Eli disclosed the relationship. Recently, Eli encouraged the student to disclose the true nature of the relationship to people in our community. What was initially seen as a matter between adults is now recognized to be a betrayal of the teacher/student relationship and an abuse of power. A trust with the larger community also has been broken. This is an important revelation as real harm is being experienced by the student and is being fully acknowledged. The repercussions of this betrayal are reverberating in ways that were never imagined, but are very painful. Eli takes full responsibility for his actions and the harm he has caused. In response, he is willingly stepping down from teaching immediately. The student is receiving qualified professional support. We are heartbroken by the transgression she has suffered and her healing is of utmost importance to all. Since hearing this news, the Board of Directors has met intensively coming together in earnest, offering full support. The desire and intention of the Board is to serve the healing of this community to the best of their ability, and to see what must be seen. In this spirit, the Board accepted Eli¹s resignation from all formal roles in the organization. The Board also determined that the Foundation will offer professionally facilitated meetings, with Gangaji and Eli present, to support healing in the larger community. These meetings will create a space in which questions can be asked and answered. There will be an opportunity for anyone to speak and express their feelings and experience. We will announce by email and on the website when and where these meetings will take place. Gangaji and Eli will write a letter directly to the community addressing their roles in this situation. These letters will be sent out to our email list as well as posted on the website. The Board intends to create a Foundation code of ethics, or similar document, to address the teacher and student relationship, as well as other pertinent issues. The deepest truths do not excuse or justify our failures and betrayals as human beings. Gratefully though, without minimizing or spiritualizing the damage done, love remains and sustains all. It is only in love that we can truly meet the pain that comes with being human. Ever more so, we can commit ourselves to the compassion that love provides and to tell the truth more clearly and honestly to others and ourselves. My prayer is that all the hearts affected by this including the student, the staff, the community, and Eli and Gangaji can heal the pain that is present and over time rebuild the broken trust. As students, we can all come together as beginners, to expose the betrayals and to see the heartbreaking consequences of our actions. We have the opportunity to share our true feelings, experiences and realizations, to meet our own and others¹ pain and humanity, and to offer and receive our apologies, condolences, and gratitude. In the realization of our true silent nature, we can gather with compassion for all the harm we received and all the harm we have caused, and then see what comes from that meeting. May we all be blessed with courage and honesty. As always, I look forward to meeting with you in satsang. In deepest gratitude and love, Barbara Denempont Executive Director The Board of Directors approved this letter. To write to the Board please email boardofdirectors@ Your correspondence is welcomed. The Gangaji Foundation 2245 Ashland St. Ashland, OR 97520 News from The Gangaji Foundation The shadow strikes the Gangaji world.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
Gangaji is a she, not a he. The he in question is her husband, Eli Jackson Bear. Both are advaitic spiritual teachers in the lineage of Ramana Maharishi through Papaji. --- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who is Gangaji...is he somehow connected to Amma? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Gangaji Foundation Community, It is possible that you have already heard about a heartbreaking disclosure within our community. As the Executive Director and a Board Member of the Gangaji and Leela Foundations it is essential that I share with you, in brief, what has happened and the response that is emerging. On Sunday, October 1, 2006, Eli Jaxon-Bear, founder of the Leela Foundation and Leela School as well as Gangaji¹s husband and partner, revealed to the entire Board of Directors that he breached the sanctity of the teacher/student relationship by initiating an intimate relationship with one of his students, who is also a teacher in the Leela School. This relationship lasted for three years. Eli told Gangaji about the relationship in October 2005. At the student¹s request, neither Gangaji nor Eli disclosed the relationship. Recently, Eli encouraged the student to disclose the true nature of the relationship to people in our community. What was initially seen as a matter between adults is now recognized to be a betrayal of the teacher/student relationship and an abuse of power. A trust with the larger community also has been broken. This is an important revelation as real harm is being experienced by the student and is being fully acknowledged. The repercussions of this betrayal are reverberating in ways that were never imagined, but are very painful. Eli takes full responsibility for his actions and the harm he has caused. In response, he is willingly stepping down from teaching immediately. The student is receiving qualified professional support. We are heartbroken by the transgression she has suffered and her healing is of utmost importance to all. Since hearing this news, the Board of Directors has met intensively coming together in earnest, offering full support. The desire and intention of the Board is to serve the healing of this community to the best of their ability, and to see what must be seen. In this spirit, the Board accepted Eli¹s resignation from all formal roles in the organization. The Board also determined that the Foundation will offer professionally facilitated meetings, with Gangaji and Eli present, to support healing in the larger community. These meetings will create a space in which questions can be asked and answered. There will be an opportunity for anyone to speak and express their feelings and experience. We will announce by email and on the website when and where these meetings will take place. Gangaji and Eli will write a letter directly to the community addressing their roles in this situation. These letters will be sent out to our email list as well as posted on the website. The Board intends to create a Foundation code of ethics, or similar document, to address the teacher and student relationship, as well as other pertinent issues. The deepest truths do not excuse or justify our failures and betrayals as human beings. Gratefully though, without minimizing or spiritualizing the damage done, love remains and sustains all. It is only in love that we can truly meet the pain that comes with being human. Ever more so, we can commit ourselves to the compassion that love provides and to tell the truth more clearly and honestly to others and ourselves. My prayer is that all the hearts affected by this including the student, the staff, the community, and Eli and Gangaji can heal the pain that is present and over time rebuild the broken trust. As students, we can all come together as beginners, to expose the betrayals and to see the heartbreaking consequences of our actions. We have the opportunity to share our true feelings, experiences and realizations, to meet our own and others¹ pain and humanity, and to offer and receive our apologies, condolences, and gratitude. In the realization of our true silent nature, we can gather with compassion for all the harm we received and all the harm we have caused, and then see what comes from that meeting. May we all be blessed with courage and honesty. As always, I look forward to meeting with you in satsang. In deepest gratitude and love, Barbara Denempont Executive Director The Board of Directors approved this letter. To write to the Board please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks John. I can see where those types of 'pointing out' conversations could be useful for some. She seems to have a good effect on folks caught in the purification to transcend duality. She's many peoples first exposure to Advaita, Dzochen etc 'Works for some' JohnY A former TMer wrote a great book about her enlightenment experience through Gangaji, Surprised by Grace By Amber Terrel. She used to be Karen Terrel married to Toby Terrel. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 jyouells@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Rick, Did you ever meet with her? What is your opinion of her? She is on our local cable channels in DC. I guess her Mississippi background gives her a pass on the sloow talking, but I find it impossible to listen to her for very long to find out what she is up to. The people she is on the show with seem very impressed with her simple statements. Guess you have to be there. Saw her in NYC a few weeks ago. She was direct, and clear. Good vibe, about 150 folks there. I was curious... JohnY --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote: Dear Gangaji Foundation Community, It is possible that you have already heard about a heartbreaking disclosure within our community. As the Executive Director and a Board Member of the Gangaji and Leela Foundations it is essential that I share with you, in brief, what has happened and the response that is emerging. On Sunday, October 1, 2006, Eli Jaxon-Bear, founder of the Leela Foundation and Leela School as well as Gangaji¹s husband and partner, revealed to the entire Board of Directors that he breached the sanctity of the teacher/student relationship by initiating an intimate relationship with one of his students, who is also a teacher in the Leela School. This relationship lasted for three years. Eli told Gangaji about the relationship in October 2005. At the student¹s request, neither Gangaji nor Eli disclosed the relationship. Recently, Eli encouraged the student to disclose the true nature of the relationship to people in our community. What was initially seen as a matter between adults is now recognized to be a betrayal of the teacher/student relationship and an abuse of power. A trust with the larger community also has been broken. This is an important revelation as real harm is being experienced by the student and is being fully acknowledged. The repercussions of this betrayal are reverberating in ways that were never imagined, but are very painful. Eli takes full responsibility for his actions and the harm he has caused. In response, he is willingly stepping down from teaching immediately. The student is receiving qualified professional support. We are heartbroken by the transgression she has suffered and her healing is of utmost importance to all. Since hearing this news, the Board of Directors has met intensively coming together in earnest, offering full support. The desire and intention of the Board is to serve the healing of this community to the best of their ability, and to see what must be seen. In this spirit, the Board accepted Eli¹s resignation from all formal roles in the organization. The Board also determined that the Foundation will offer professionally facilitated meetings, with Gangaji and Eli present, to support healing in the larger community. These meetings will create a space in which questions can be asked and answered. There will be an opportunity for anyone to speak and express their feelings and experience. We will announce by email and on the website when and where these meetings will take place. Gangaji and Eli will write a letter directly to the community addressing their roles in this situation. These letters will be sent out to our email list as well as posted on the website. The Board intends to create a Foundation code of ethics, or similar document, to address the teacher and student relationship, as well as other pertinent issues. The deepest truths do not excuse or justify our failures and betrayals as human beings. Gratefully though, without minimizing or spiritualizing === message truncated === __ Do You
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rick, Did you ever meet with her? What is your opinion of her? She is on our local cable channels in DC. I guess her Mississippi background gives her a pass on the sloow talking, but I find it impossible to listen to her for very long to find out what she is up to. The people she is on the show with seem very impressed with her simple statements. Guess you have to be there. I can't watch her on TV either w/o getting bored and rolling my eyes, but in person I experienced some very beneficial shifts in awareness, at least 10 years ago I did. I wouldn't call this a Gangaji scandal as it primarily involves her husband who is an independent teacher, though he apparently sits on her board, and it seems to have been handled in a proper way, 100 times more open and honorable than what you tend to find in most movements. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
On Oct 12, 2006, at 1:19 AM, new.morning wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Gangaji Foundation 2245 Ashland St. Ashland, OR 9752 They've moved again? In the last 10 years they've been in at least 3 locations: Boulder, Stimson Beach, and now Ashland. Well, at least Eli's been committing his transgressions in nice places. Sal You know stinson beach? Not really. Stayed in Mill Valley for a month a long time ago, but spent most of my time there in SF, a city that I absolutely love, with friends. Hope to get back there for an extended visit at some point. I grew up on the other side of the hill -- Mll Valley -- and used to ride my bike with friends up the hill then down a most incredible windy road down to Stinson. Breathtaking on several levels. Later a pack of of became, probably the first in CA, kyack surfers at Stinson -- and Bolinas -- next beach north. Great memories of stinson. Sounds nice, thanks for the pics. Sal To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji on 10/12/06 12:45 AM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Who is Gangaji... http://www.gangaji.org/ is he somehow connected to Amma? She. No. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
I can't watch her on TV either w/o getting bored and rolling my eyes, but in person I experienced some very beneficial shifts in awareness, at least 10 years ago I did. Thanks for your impressions. The language form she uses is clearly meant to shift states of awareness. It would work better in a room where you didn't have other entertainment options pulling at you, I suspect. It is deadly on TV with a remote in my hand. But is does seem to utilize some good hypnotic therapy techniques, so it doesn't surprise me that people find it has value. Some of her sessions seem like watching someone in therapy going through a process. The thing with her husband must be crushingly sad for her. Since I view them as ordinary people, no matter what their subjective experience, it is no news flash that powerful dude cheats on gray haired wife. I'm going to make a wild guess that the chick was younger, and looked at him in the adoring way that Ganjaji used to, before she got all gurued up. But the letter was perfectly written with the right spin. It shows their sensitivity to feelings. I can't imagine the TM movement producing such a letter. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Rick, Did you ever meet with her? What is your opinion of her? She is on our local cable channels in DC. I guess her Mississippi background gives her a pass on the sloow talking, but I find it impossible to listen to her for very long to find out what she is up to. The people she is on the show with seem very impressed with her simple statements. Guess you have to be there. I can't watch her on TV either w/o getting bored and rolling my eyes, but in person I experienced some very beneficial shifts in awareness, at least 10 years ago I did. I wouldn't call this a Gangaji scandal as it primarily involves her husband who is an independent teacher, though he apparently sits on her board, and it seems to have been handled in a proper way, 100 times more open and honorable than what you tend to find in most movements. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The thing with her husband must be crushingly sad for her. Since I view them as ordinary people, no matter what their subjective experience, it is no news flash that powerful dude cheats on gray haired wife. I'm going to make a wild guess that the chick was younger, and looked at him in the adoring way that Ganjaji used to, before she got all gurued up. But the letter was perfectly written with the right spin. It shows their sensitivity to feelings. I can't imagine the TM movement producing such a letter. While I am sure what they are doing is all good, when reading the letter I sort of felt like it was a parody of how a new age group would deal with a sex scandal. Maybe something on SNL. Or a John Stewart rift. After wave after wave of stuff they said they were going to do to help mitigate any damage to students, I expected them to say: ...and Dr Phil and Oprah will seperately will be on 24/7 call for personal counseling and griefing for each student, past, present, future, and those whoe intended to attend a lecture, but didn't get around to it, plus we are buying condos in Hawaii for all students so that they can grieve in dignity and uplifting surroundings, and a hi-def video of Eli thrashing himself with boughs of thorns on a 48-hour purification vigil, plus Possibly, it might be a good thing, if they were more authentic: Eli and Gangaji will make a public statement once Eli gets out of the hospital from the huge gash on his head from the cut crystal vase gangaji threw at him, and from the internal bleeding from the shit-kicking she gave him. For now, they offer the following thoughts: Frankly, this is a personal matter between Eli and myselfe. Get a life people. We are ordinary people. You are ordinary people. Ordinary middle age people lust after hot chicks and guys in their nubile 20's. WAKE-UP! Thats the inner truth. Its a fact of life, a fact of the Universe. Its Real. Get Real. Be Real. What do you expect when on the road lecturing, or at our centers, when adoring gorgeous fans throw themselves at you. Its one of the hazards / perks of being a new-age guru type. I have been tempted -- and have been human enough to act the feelings, not keeping them bottled up. Eli did the same. Its OUR business, not yours. If you feel betrayed, do some deep breathing -- it will pass. Wake up to Life. Celebrate Life. We do. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Gangaji Foundation 2245 Ashland St. Ashland, OR 9752 They've moved again? In the last 10 years they've been in at least 3 locations: Boulder, Stimson Beach, and now Ashland. Well, at least Eli's been committing his transgressions in nice places. Sal Eli teaches separately from Gangaji. Ocassionaly they teach together. ...don't you mean Eli 'teaches' seperately from Gangaji. Occasionally they 'teach' together?... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
Excellent points! I dug your keep'n it reaaal version. Here is another version of the letter: Yeah, he banged a younger chick. Don't sweat it, Mama Ganjaji is carving her own nubile slice. She just wasn't dumb enough to nail a folower, so she gets to keep the house with the big-screen TV and dude has moved into a condo. Dumbass. Over and out. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: The thing with her husband must be crushingly sad for her. Since I view them as ordinary people, no matter what their subjective experience, it is no news flash that powerful dude cheats on gray haired wife. I'm going to make a wild guess that the chick was younger, and looked at him in the adoring way that Ganjaji used to, before she got all gurued up. But the letter was perfectly written with the right spin. It shows their sensitivity to feelings. I can't imagine the TM movement producing such a letter. While I am sure what they are doing is all good, when reading the letter I sort of felt like it was a parody of how a new age group would deal with a sex scandal. Maybe something on SNL. Or a John Stewart rift. After wave after wave of stuff they said they were going to do to help mitigate any damage to students, I expected them to say: ...and Dr Phil and Oprah will seperately will be on 24/7 call for personal counseling and griefing for each student, past, present, future, and those whoe intended to attend a lecture, but didn't get around to it, plus we are buying condos in Hawaii for all students so that they can grieve in dignity and uplifting surroundings, and a hi-def video of Eli thrashing himself with boughs of thorns on a 48-hour purification vigil, plus Possibly, it might be a good thing, if they were more authentic: Eli and Gangaji will make a public statement once Eli gets out of the hospital from the huge gash on his head from the cut crystal vase gangaji threw at him, and from the internal bleeding from the shit-kicking she gave him. For now, they offer the following thoughts: Frankly, this is a personal matter between Eli and myselfe. Get a life people. We are ordinary people. You are ordinary people. Ordinary middle age people lust after hot chicks and guys in their nubile 20's. WAKE-UP! Thats the inner truth. Its a fact of life, a fact of the Universe. Its Real. Get Real. Be Real. What do you expect when on the road lecturing, or at our centers, when adoring gorgeous fans throw themselves at you. Its one of the hazards / perks of being a new-age guru type. I have been tempted -- and have been human enough to act the feelings, not keeping them bottled up. Eli did the same. Its OUR business, not yours. If you feel betrayed, do some deep breathing -- it will pass. Wake up to Life. Celebrate Life. We do. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for your impressions. The language form she uses is clearly meant to shift states of awareness. It would work better in a room where you didn't have other entertainment options pulling at you, I suspect. It is deadly on TV with a remote in my hand. But is does seem to utilize some good hypnotic therapy techniques, so it doesn't surprise me that people find it has value. Some of her sessions seem like watching someone in therapy going through a process. Thank you so much for this observation, Curtis. I was very involved with Gangaji for several years, and still find myself processing the experience from time to time, just as I do my many years of involvement with the TMO. This is very insightful. I had been quite captivated by her for some time, but finally came to feel that she had a way of producing experiences in people which they took for awakening. Of course, everyone has a different idea of what awakening is, and I do also wonder what Rick meant when he said people had awakened with her (and also what evidence there is for that awakening.) In any case, it seemed what Gangaji had experienced was transitory - like any experience that comes and goes. It seems to me that awakening, to be a truly meaningful shift, would entail a transition that is permanent. Gangaji always emphasized the need for vigilance -- that a person would have an awakening that they would then need to sustain through a process of vigilance. In other words, this awakening could occur and then be lost without effort to maintain it. The description of Gangaji's interactions as being hypnotic really seems to zero in on something. She speaks in a rather hynotic way and can be very charming (to some) and poetic. I think a lot of people become infatuated with her image. Well -- there's lots more percolating thanks to your remarks. Thanks! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 12, 2006, at 5:10 PM, abutilon108 wrote: I had been quite captivated by her for some time, but finally came to feel that she had a way of producing experiences in people which they took for awakening. Of course, everyone has a different idea of what awakening is, and I do also wonder what Rick meant when he said people had awakened with her (and also what evidence there is for that awakening.) I think he probably meant that they had gotten bored and fallen asleep during the lectures, and then had awakened. :) I was also involved with her group here in FF for a few years, and enjoyed the insights and the friendship. But like so many spiritual movements, it seemed to get dominated by people who were, to put it politely, somewhat unstable. I wonder if any of the ones Rick refers to are some of the ones who seemed to be cracking up half the time. I went to one of her satsangs at the Best Western when she visited FF back in the '90s. People were ooohing and aing and giggling uncontrollably in response to her words, and in my mind I was like, WTF is the matter with you people? She hasn't said anything intelligent! Just gibberish and newagey fluff! I got nothing out of it, and I left, $20 poorer and feeling embarrassed for the giggling throng. I think today I'd understand what she's saying, but if she's anything like Neelam, who's also in the Papaji lineage (and, who just sits up front, dismissing everything with it is just story in her thick Polish accent), I would probably still not get anything out of it. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
Rick, Did you ever meet with her? What is your opinion of her? She is on our local cable channels in DC. I guess her Mississippi background gives her a pass on the sloow talking, but I find it impossible to listen to her for very long to find out what she is up to. The people she is on the show with seem very impressed with her simple statements. Guess you have to be there. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Gangaji Foundation Community, It is possible that you have already heard about a heartbreaking disclosure within our community. As the Executive Director and a Board Member of the Gangaji and Leela Foundations it is essential that I share with you, in brief, what has happened and the response that is emerging. On Sunday, October 1, 2006, Eli Jaxon-Bear, founder of the Leela Foundation and Leela School as well as Gangaji¹s husband and partner, revealed to the entire Board of Directors that he breached the sanctity of the teacher/student relationship by initiating an intimate relationship with one of his students, who is also a teacher in the Leela School. This relationship lasted for three years. Eli told Gangaji about the relationship in October 2005. At the student¹s request, neither Gangaji nor Eli disclosed the relationship. Recently, Eli encouraged the student to disclose the true nature of the relationship to people in our community. What was initially seen as a matter between adults is now recognized to be a betrayal of the teacher/student relationship and an abuse of power. A trust with the larger community also has been broken. This is an important revelation as real harm is being experienced by the student and is being fully acknowledged. The repercussions of this betrayal are reverberating in ways that were never imagined, but are very painful. Eli takes full responsibility for his actions and the harm he has caused. In response, he is willingly stepping down from teaching immediately. The student is receiving qualified professional support. We are heartbroken by the transgression she has suffered and her healing is of utmost importance to all. Since hearing this news, the Board of Directors has met intensively coming together in earnest, offering full support. The desire and intention of the Board is to serve the healing of this community to the best of their ability, and to see what must be seen. In this spirit, the Board accepted Eli¹s resignation from all formal roles in the organization. The Board also determined that the Foundation will offer professionally facilitated meetings, with Gangaji and Eli present, to support healing in the larger community. These meetings will create a space in which questions can be asked and answered. There will be an opportunity for anyone to speak and express their feelings and experience. We will announce by email and on the website when and where these meetings will take place. Gangaji and Eli will write a letter directly to the community addressing their roles in this situation. These letters will be sent out to our email list as well as posted on the website. The Board intends to create a Foundation code of ethics, or similar document, to address the teacher and student relationship, as well as other pertinent issues. The deepest truths do not excuse or justify our failures and betrayals as human beings. Gratefully though, without minimizing or spiritualizing the damage done, love remains and sustains all. It is only in love that we can truly meet the pain that comes with being human. Ever more so, we can commit ourselves to the compassion that love provides and to tell the truth more clearly and honestly to others and ourselves. My prayer is that all the hearts affected by this including the student, the staff, the community, and Eli and Gangaji can heal the pain that is present and over time rebuild the broken trust. As students, we can all come together as beginners, to expose the betrayals and to see the heartbreaking consequences of our actions. We have the opportunity to share our true feelings, experiences and realizations, to meet our own and others¹ pain and humanity, and to offer and receive our apologies, condolences, and gratitude. In the realization of our true silent nature, we can gather with compassion for all the harm we received and all the harm we have caused, and then see what comes from that meeting. May we all be blessed with courage and honesty. As always, I look forward to meeting with you in satsang. In deepest gratitude and love, Barbara Denempont Executive Director The Board of Directors approved this letter. To write to the Board please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your correspondence is welcomed. The Gangaji Foundation 2245 Ashland St. Ashland, OR 97520 News
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rick, Did you ever meet with her? What is your opinion of her? She is on our local cable channels in DC. I guess her Mississippi background gives her a pass on the sloow talking, but I find it impossible to listen to her for very long to find out what she is up to. The people she is on the show with seem very impressed with her simple statements. Guess you have to be there. She's one hot honey! R.G. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote: Dear Gangaji Foundation Community, It is possible that you have already heard about a heartbreaking disclosure within our community. As the Executive Director and a Board Member of the Gangaji and Leela Foundations it is essential that I share with you, in brief, what has happened and the response that is emerging. On Sunday, October 1, 2006, Eli Jaxon-Bear, founder of the Leela Foundation and Leela School as well as Gangaji¹s husband and partner, revealed to the entire Board of Directors that he breached the sanctity of the teacher/student relationship by initiating an intimate relationship with one of his students, who is also a teacher in the Leela School. This relationship lasted for three years. Eli told Gangaji about the relationship in October 2005. At the student¹s request, neither Gangaji nor Eli disclosed the relationship. Recently, Eli encouraged the student to disclose the true nature of the relationship to people in our community. What was initially seen as a matter between adults is now recognized to be a betrayal of the teacher/student relationship and an abuse of power. A trust with the larger community also has been broken. This is an important revelation as real harm is being experienced by the student and is being fully acknowledged. The repercussions of this betrayal are reverberating in ways that were never imagined, but are very painful. Eli takes full responsibility for his actions and the harm he has caused. In response, he is willingly stepping down from teaching immediately. The student is receiving qualified professional support. We are heartbroken by the transgression she has suffered and her healing is of utmost importance to all. Since hearing this news, the Board of Directors has met intensively coming together in earnest, offering full support. The desire and intention of the Board is to serve the healing of this community to the best of their ability, and to see what must be seen. In this spirit, the Board accepted Eli¹s resignation from all formal roles in the organization. The Board also determined that the Foundation will offer professionally facilitated meetings, with Gangaji and Eli present, to support healing in the larger community. These meetings will create a space in which questions can be asked and answered. There will be an opportunity for anyone to speak and express their feelings and experience. We will announce by email and on the website when and where these meetings will take place. Gangaji and Eli will write a letter directly to the community addressing their roles in this situation. These letters will be sent out to our email list as well as posted on the website. The Board intends to create a Foundation code of ethics, or similar document, to address the teacher and student relationship, as well as other pertinent issues. The deepest truths do not excuse or justify our failures and betrayals as human beings. Gratefully though, without minimizing or spiritualizing the damage done, love remains and sustains all. It is only in love that we can truly meet the pain that comes with being human. Ever more so, we can commit ourselves to the compassion that love provides and to tell the truth more clearly and honestly to others and ourselves. My prayer is that all the hearts affected by this including the student, the staff, the community, and Eli and Gangaji can heal the pain that is present and over time rebuild the broken trust. As students, we can all come together as beginners, to expose the betrayals and to see the heartbreaking consequences of our actions. We have the opportunity to share our true feelings, experiences and realizations, to meet our own and others¹ pain and humanity, and to offer and receive our apologies, condolences, and gratitude. In the realization of our true silent nature, we can gather with compassion for all the harm we received and all the harm we have caused, and then see what comes from that meeting. May we all be blessed with courage and honesty. As always, I look forward to meeting with you in satsang. In deepest gratitude and love, Barbara Denempont Executive Director The
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
Thanks John. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Rick, Did you ever meet with her? What is your opinion of her? She is on our local cable channels in DC. I guess her Mississippi background gives her a pass on the sloow talking, but I find it impossible to listen to her for very long to find out what she is up to. The people she is on the show with seem very impressed with her simple statements. Guess you have to be there. Saw her in NYC a few weeks ago. She was direct, and clear. Good vibe, about 150 folks there. I was curious... JohnY --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote: Dear Gangaji Foundation Community, It is possible that you have already heard about a heartbreaking disclosure within our community. As the Executive Director and a Board Member of the Gangaji and Leela Foundations it is essential that I share with you, in brief, what has happened and the response that is emerging. On Sunday, October 1, 2006, Eli Jaxon-Bear, founder of the Leela Foundation and Leela School as well as Gangaji¹s husband and partner, revealed to the entire Board of Directors that he breached the sanctity of the teacher/student relationship by initiating an intimate relationship with one of his students, who is also a teacher in the Leela School. This relationship lasted for three years. Eli told Gangaji about the relationship in October 2005. At the student¹s request, neither Gangaji nor Eli disclosed the relationship. Recently, Eli encouraged the student to disclose the true nature of the relationship to people in our community. What was initially seen as a matter between adults is now recognized to be a betrayal of the teacher/student relationship and an abuse of power. A trust with the larger community also has been broken. This is an important revelation as real harm is being experienced by the student and is being fully acknowledged. The repercussions of this betrayal are reverberating in ways that were never imagined, but are very painful. Eli takes full responsibility for his actions and the harm he has caused. In response, he is willingly stepping down from teaching immediately. The student is receiving qualified professional support. We are heartbroken by the transgression she has suffered and her healing is of utmost importance to all. Since hearing this news, the Board of Directors has met intensively coming together in earnest, offering full support. The desire and intention of the Board is to serve the healing of this community to the best of their ability, and to see what must be seen. In this spirit, the Board accepted Eli¹s resignation from all formal roles in the organization. The Board also determined that the Foundation will offer professionally facilitated meetings, with Gangaji and Eli present, to support healing in the larger community. These meetings will create a space in which questions can be asked and answered. There will be an opportunity for anyone to speak and express their feelings and experience. We will announce by email and on the website when and where these meetings will take place. Gangaji and Eli will write a letter directly to the community addressing their roles in this situation. These letters will be sent out to our email list as well as posted on the website. The Board intends to create a Foundation code of ethics, or similar document, to address the teacher and student relationship, as well as other pertinent issues. The deepest truths do not excuse or justify our failures and betrayals as human beings. Gratefully though, without minimizing or spiritualizing the damage done, love remains and sustains all. It is only in love that we can truly meet the pain that comes with being human. Ever more so, we can commit ourselves to the compassion that love provides and to tell the truth more clearly and honestly to others and ourselves. My prayer is that all the hearts affected by this including the student, the staff, the community, and Eli and Gangaji can heal the pain that is present and over time rebuild the broken trust. As students, we can all come together as beginners, to expose the betrayals and to see the heartbreaking consequences of our actions. We have the opportunity to share our true feelings, experiences and realizations, to meet our own and others¹ pain and humanity, and to offer and receive our apologies, condolences, and gratitude. In the realization of our true silent nature, we can gather with compassion for all the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks John. I can see where those types of 'pointing out' conversations could be useful for some. She seems to have a good effect on folks caught in the purification to transcend duality. She's many peoples first exposure to Advaita, Dzochen etc 'Works for some' JohnY --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 jyouells@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Rick, Did you ever meet with her? What is your opinion of her? She is on our local cable channels in DC. I guess her Mississippi background gives her a pass on the sloow talking, but I find it impossible to listen to her for very long to find out what she is up to. The people she is on the show with seem very impressed with her simple statements. Guess you have to be there. Saw her in NYC a few weeks ago. She was direct, and clear. Good vibe, about 150 folks there. I was curious... JohnY --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer groups@ wrote: Dear Gangaji Foundation Community, It is possible that you have already heard about a heartbreaking disclosure within our community. As the Executive Director and a Board Member of the Gangaji and Leela Foundations it is essential that I share with you, in brief, what has happened and the response that is emerging. On Sunday, October 1, 2006, Eli Jaxon-Bear, founder of the Leela Foundation and Leela School as well as Gangaji¹s husband and partner, revealed to the entire Board of Directors that he breached the sanctity of the teacher/student relationship by initiating an intimate relationship with one of his students, who is also a teacher in the Leela School. This relationship lasted for three years. Eli told Gangaji about the relationship in October 2005. At the student¹s request, neither Gangaji nor Eli disclosed the relationship. Recently, Eli encouraged the student to disclose the true nature of the relationship to people in our community. What was initially seen as a matter between adults is now recognized to be a betrayal of the teacher/student relationship and an abuse of power. A trust with the larger community also has been broken. This is an important revelation as real harm is being experienced by the student and is being fully acknowledged. The repercussions of this betrayal are reverberating in ways that were never imagined, but are very painful. Eli takes full responsibility for his actions and the harm he has caused. In response, he is willingly stepping down from teaching immediately. The student is receiving qualified professional support. We are heartbroken by the transgression she has suffered and her healing is of utmost importance to all. Since hearing this news, the Board of Directors has met intensively coming together in earnest, offering full support. The desire and intention of the Board is to serve the healing of this community to the best of their ability, and to see what must be seen. In this spirit, the Board accepted Eli¹s resignation from all formal roles in the organization. The Board also determined that the Foundation will offer professionally facilitated meetings, with Gangaji and Eli present, to support healing in the larger community. These meetings will create a space in which questions can be asked and answered. There will be an opportunity for anyone to speak and express their feelings and experience. We will announce by email and on the website when and where these meetings will take place. Gangaji and Eli will write a letter directly to the community addressing their roles in this situation. These letters will be sent out to our email list as well as posted on the website. The Board intends to create a Foundation code of ethics, or similar document, to address the teacher and student relationship, as well as other pertinent issues. The deepest truths do not excuse or justify our failures and betrayals as human beings. Gratefully though, without minimizing or spiritualizing the damage done, love remains and sustains all. It is only in love that we can truly meet the pain that comes with being human. Ever more so, we can commit ourselves to the compassion that love provides and to tell the truth more clearly and honestly to others and ourselves. My prayer is that all the hearts affected by this including the student, the staff, the community, and Eli and Gangaji can heal the pain that is present and over time rebuild the
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rick, Did you ever meet with her? What is your opinion of her? She is on our local cable channels in DC. I guess her Mississippi background gives her a pass on the sloow talking, but I find it impossible to listen to her for very long to find out what she is up to. The people she is on the show with seem very impressed with her simple statements. Guess you have to be there. I never saw her in person but Ive seen and listened to her on tapes. I like her. Shes helped a lot of people Awaken. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe __,_._,___
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Rick, Did you ever meet with her? What is your opinion of her? She is on our local cable channels in DC. I guess her Mississippi background gives her a pass on the sloow talking, but I find it impossible to listen to her for very long to find out what she is up to. The people she is on the show with seem very impressed with her simple statements. Guess you have to be there. I never saw her in person but I¹ve seen and listened to her on tapes. I like her. She¹s helped a lot of people Awaken. River Ganga (video-well done) Who Am I (2 audio tape set) :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Scandal hits Gangaji
Who is Gangaji...is he somehow connected to Amma? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Gangaji Foundation Community, It is possible that you have already heard about a heartbreaking disclosure within our community. As the Executive Director and a Board Member of the Gangaji and Leela Foundations it is essential that I share with you, in brief, what has happened and the response that is emerging. On Sunday, October 1, 2006, Eli Jaxon-Bear, founder of the Leela Foundation and Leela School as well as Gangaji¹s husband and partner, revealed to the entire Board of Directors that he breached the sanctity of the teacher/student relationship by initiating an intimate relationship with one of his students, who is also a teacher in the Leela School. This relationship lasted for three years. Eli told Gangaji about the relationship in October 2005. At the student¹s request, neither Gangaji nor Eli disclosed the relationship. Recently, Eli encouraged the student to disclose the true nature of the relationship to people in our community. What was initially seen as a matter between adults is now recognized to be a betrayal of the teacher/student relationship and an abuse of power. A trust with the larger community also has been broken. This is an important revelation as real harm is being experienced by the student and is being fully acknowledged. The repercussions of this betrayal are reverberating in ways that were never imagined, but are very painful. Eli takes full responsibility for his actions and the harm he has caused. In response, he is willingly stepping down from teaching immediately. The student is receiving qualified professional support. We are heartbroken by the transgression she has suffered and her healing is of utmost importance to all. Since hearing this news, the Board of Directors has met intensively coming together in earnest, offering full support. The desire and intention of the Board is to serve the healing of this community to the best of their ability, and to see what must be seen. In this spirit, the Board accepted Eli¹s resignation from all formal roles in the organization. The Board also determined that the Foundation will offer professionally facilitated meetings, with Gangaji and Eli present, to support healing in the larger community. These meetings will create a space in which questions can be asked and answered. There will be an opportunity for anyone to speak and express their feelings and experience. We will announce by email and on the website when and where these meetings will take place. Gangaji and Eli will write a letter directly to the community addressing their roles in this situation. These letters will be sent out to our email list as well as posted on the website. The Board intends to create a Foundation code of ethics, or similar document, to address the teacher and student relationship, as well as other pertinent issues. The deepest truths do not excuse or justify our failures and betrayals as human beings. Gratefully though, without minimizing or spiritualizing the damage done, love remains and sustains all. It is only in love that we can truly meet the pain that comes with being human. Ever more so, we can commit ourselves to the compassion that love provides and to tell the truth more clearly and honestly to others and ourselves. My prayer is that all the hearts affected by this including the student, the staff, the community, and Eli and Gangaji can heal the pain that is present and over time rebuild the broken trust. As students, we can all come together as beginners, to expose the betrayals and to see the heartbreaking consequences of our actions. We have the opportunity to share our true feelings, experiences and realizations, to meet our own and others¹ pain and humanity, and to offer and receive our apologies, condolences, and gratitude. In the realization of our true silent nature, we can gather with compassion for all the harm we received and all the harm we have caused, and then see what comes from that meeting. May we all be blessed with courage and honesty. As always, I look forward to meeting with you in satsang. In deepest gratitude and love, Barbara Denempont Executive Director The Board of Directors approved this letter. To write to the Board please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your correspondence is welcomed. The Gangaji Foundation 2245 Ashland St. Ashland, OR 97520 News from The Gangaji Foundation The shadow strikes the Gangaji world. To no longer receive our emails, click to unsubscribe.
