Re: [Flightgear-devel] [FlightGear-devel] materials.xml request

2010-01-31 Thread Erik Hofman
J. Holden wrote:
>> I'm a bit confused. Are random objects actually starting up at different
> points in each run now? I haven't noticed that nor have I seen a report of
> that. All I've seen in this thread is that the code that resets the random
> generator in each tile (well, several times per tile) may be affecting the
> "random" distribution of some models.
> 
> I have not seen anything proving this is broken (did a couple test flights), 
> can someone please independently verify that this code is indeed broken?

Hm, I did e few tests myself yesterday. I'll try to do a few more to check.

Erik

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] [FlightGear-devel] materials.xml request

2010-01-31 Thread J. Holden

> I'm a bit confused. Are random objects actually starting up at different
points in each run now? I haven't noticed that nor have I seen a report of
that. All I've seen in this thread is that the code that resets the random
generator in each tile (well, several times per tile) may be affecting the
"random" distribution of some models.

I have not seen anything proving this is broken (did a couple test flights), 
can someone please independently verify that this code is indeed broken?

Cheers
John

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] material animation still breaks pick highlights

2010-01-31 Thread Tim Moore
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 5:45 PM, dave perry  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I just added a pick object to a material animation so it would be
> illuminated when cockpit lighting is turned on.  This pick object was
> highlighted as expected via ctrl-C before adding it to the material
> animation, but now even with the cockpit lighting off, the pick
> highlight no longer works.  This is with yesterday's cvs.
>
> Is there an aircraft in CVS that exhibits this problem?

Thanks,
Tim

> Dave P.
>
>
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] materials.xml request

2010-01-31 Thread ThorX
On 31.1.2010 22:13, LeeE wrote
> On Sunday 31 Jan 2010, Erik Hofman wrote:
>   
>> > Stuart Buchanan wrote:
>> 
>>> > > It's been a long time since I (re-)wrote the random object code
>>> > > for OSG, but my recollection is that we use the same random
>>> > > number seed when generating random model placements, to ensure
>>> > > that a building is in the same place on every computer.
>>>   
>> >
>> > Looks like that part is gone, at least the part where every
>> > random object in the scenery was in the same place every time you
>> > start up FlightGear. This used to be working at some point (and
>> > could be used for landmark navigation).
>> >
>> > Erik
>> 
>
> It's a sad fact that much of which used to make FG extremely stable 
> and consistant has been sacrificed to implement new features.
>
> Sorry folks, but all the new developments in FG, over the past few 
> years, have come at the cost of stability and robustness.  What has 
> stopped me from contributing to FG has been a combination of 
> unaddressed show-stopping bugs, a reliance upon non-standard 
> dependencies, all topped off with an obsolete architecture.
>
> Having said that, I'm not trying to criticise anyone; I remember 
> Curt remarking on more than one occasion that trying to coordinate 
> FG development was like trying to heard cats, but FG long ago 
> became bigger than any of its contributors.  It seems to me that 
> perhaps part of the the problem is that not all of the contributors 
> to FG realise that.
>
> LeeE
>
>
>   
That is my impression too.

ThorX


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear movies, streaming video, ...

2010-01-31 Thread Victhor Foster
I do that as well(if I ever film a FG movie ;) ), but I don't hold the camera 
in my hand. I use a CD stack holder, my phone, some other random stuff and zoom 
:)

> I cheat , i use my digital camera , though its a bit tough to hold the camera 
> in one hand and fly with the other :)
> 
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 3:05 PM, John Denker  wrote:
> Hi --
> 
> >From time to time people make movies of FGFS.
> 
> What's the recommended way of doing that?
> 
> I surmise that --jpg-httpd might be one way of
> approaching things ... but just saying "jpg-httpd"
> is not a complete solution to the overall task.
> The semantics of --jpg-httpd is not documented
> in getstart.pdf or anywhere else I could find.
> 
> The most complete discussion of movie-making I
> could find is at
>  http://pigeond.net/flightgear/screenstreamer/
> 
> So ... is that the Best Current Practice?  Is there
> any reason why that streaming video patch has not
> been accepted into the mainline FGFS?
> 
> I'd prefer not to re-invent one of those things
> that's round and has an axle and 
> 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear movies, streaming video, ...

2010-01-31 Thread Patrice Poly
I like glc for movie catpures  :
http://nullkey.ath.cx/projects/glc/wiki/WikiStart


On 01/02/2010 02:00, syd adams wrote:
> I cheat , i use my digital camera , though its a bit tough to hold the
> camera in one hand and fly with the other :)
>
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 3:05 PM, John Denker  wrote:
>
>   
>> Hi --
>>
>> >From time to time people make movies of FGFS.
>>
>> What's the recommended way of doing that?
>>
>> I surmise that --jpg-httpd might be one way of
>> approaching things ... but just saying "jpg-httpd"
>> is not a complete solution to the overall task.
>> The semantics of --jpg-httpd is not documented
>> in getstart.pdf or anywhere else I could find.
>>
>> The most complete discussion of movie-making I
>> could find is at
>>  http://pigeond.net/flightgear/screenstreamer/
>>
>> So ... is that the Best Current Practice?  Is there
>> any reason why that streaming video patch has not
>> been accepted into the mainline FGFS?
>>
>> I'd prefer not to re-invent one of those things
>> that's round and has an axle and 
>>
>> 
>


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear movies, streaming video, ...

2010-01-31 Thread syd adams
I cheat , i use my digital camera , though its a bit tough to hold the
camera in one hand and fly with the other :)

On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 3:05 PM, John Denker  wrote:

> Hi --
>
> >From time to time people make movies of FGFS.
>
> What's the recommended way of doing that?
>
> I surmise that --jpg-httpd might be one way of
> approaching things ... but just saying "jpg-httpd"
> is not a complete solution to the overall task.
> The semantics of --jpg-httpd is not documented
> in getstart.pdf or anywhere else I could find.
>
> The most complete discussion of movie-making I
> could find is at
>  http://pigeond.net/flightgear/screenstreamer/
>
> So ... is that the Best Current Practice?  Is there
> any reason why that streaming video patch has not
> been accepted into the mainline FGFS?
>
> I'd prefer not to re-invent one of those things
> that's round and has an axle and 
>
>
> --
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[Flightgear-devel] FlightGear movies, streaming video, ...

2010-01-31 Thread John Denker
Hi --

>From time to time people make movies of FGFS.

What's the recommended way of doing that?

I surmise that --jpg-httpd might be one way of
approaching things ... but just saying "jpg-httpd"
is not a complete solution to the overall task.
The semantics of --jpg-httpd is not documented 
in getstart.pdf or anywhere else I could find.

The most complete discussion of movie-making I 
could find is at
  http://pigeond.net/flightgear/screenstreamer/

So ... is that the Best Current Practice?  Is there
any reason why that streaming video patch has not
been accepted into the mainline FGFS?

I'd prefer not to re-invent one of those things
that's round and has an axle and 

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] materials.xml request

2010-01-31 Thread Tim Moore
On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Erik Hofman  wrote:

> Stuart Buchanan wrote:
> > It's been a long time since I (re-)wrote the random object code for OSG,
> but my
> > recollection is that we use the same random number seed when generating
> > random model placements, to ensure that a building is in the same place
> on
> > every computer.
>
> Looks like that part is gone, at least the part where every random
> object in the scenery was in the same place every time you start up
> FlightGear. This used to be working at some point (and could be used for
> landmark navigation).
>
> I'm a bit confused. Are random objects actually starting up at different
points in each run now? I haven't noticed that nor have I seen a report of
that. All I've seen in this thread is that the code that resets the random
generator in each tile (well, several times per tile) may be affecting the
"random" distribution of some models.

Tim

> Erik
>
>
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[Flightgear-devel] RC Simulator XML file for ESKY Hobby 0905A

2010-01-31 Thread Bohnert Paul

Developers,

I built a joystick input xml file for ESKY Hobby 0905A RC Simulator. 

http://www.ehirobo.com/shop/images/esky/EK2-0905A.jpg

I tested it with Windows XP and Linux(Fedora 12).  I do not have a Mac to test.

It is released under the GPL.

Can one of the developers commit this to FlighGear.

It can be downloaded from this link;

http://files.ww.com/files/64353.html


Best Regards,
Paul B


  

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] materials.xml request

2010-01-31 Thread Curtis Olson
Loosing this permanence of random object placement would be a bummer for
anyone who is driving multiple displays from multiple computers.  That's
maybe a small segment of our user base, but it's these higher end
"professional" users that often have budgets they are working with.

Regards,

Curt.


On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Stuart Buchanan wrote:

> Erik Hofman wrote:
>
> > Stuart Buchanan wrote:
> > > It's been a long time since I (re-)wrote the random object code for
> OSG, but
> > my
> > > recollection is that we use the same random number seed when generating
> > > random model placements, to ensure that a building is in the same place
> on
> > > every computer.
> >
> > Looks like that part is gone, at least the part where every random
> > object in the scenery was in the same place every time you start up
> > FlightGear. This used to be working at some point (and could be used for
> > landmark navigation).
>
> Hmmm, I've had a quick look at the code in question
> (simgear/scene/tgdb/odj.cxx
> computeRandomObjects), and it doesn't look like it has changed since I
> wrote it, so
> I'm surprised it no-longer works.
>
> Unfortunately I can't test this at present as my graphics card is kaput.
> That isn't going
> to be resolved for a couple of weeks, so if someone wants to take a look,
> they are
> welcome.
>
> Sorry I can't be of more help, or maintain my own code in a timely manner
> at present.
>
> -Stuart
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] materials.xml request

2010-01-31 Thread leee
On Sunday 31 Jan 2010, Erik Hofman wrote:
> Stuart Buchanan wrote:
> > It's been a long time since I (re-)wrote the random object code
> > for OSG, but my recollection is that we use the same random
> > number seed when generating random model placements, to ensure
> > that a building is in the same place on every computer.
>
> Looks like that part is gone, at least the part where every
> random object in the scenery was in the same place every time you
> start up FlightGear. This used to be working at some point (and
> could be used for landmark navigation).
>
> Erik

It's a sad fact that much of which used to make FG extremely stable 
and consistant has been sacrificed to implement new features.

Sorry folks, but all the new developments in FG, over the past few 
years, have come at the cost of stability and robustness.  What has 
stopped me from contributing to FG has been a combination of 
unaddressed show-stopping bugs, a reliance upon non-standard 
dependencies, all topped off with an obsolete architecture.

Having said that, I'm not trying to criticise anyone; I remember 
Curt remarking on more than one occasion that trying to coordinate 
FG development was like trying to heard cats, but FG long ago 
became bigger than any of its contributors.  It seems to me that 
perhaps part of the the problem is that not all of the contributors 
to FG realise that.

LeeE

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Can i use Maya 2009 building Aircraft for Flightgear 1.9.1 and v 2.0?

2010-01-31 Thread Gary Neely
On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Peter Meyer  wrote:
> Of cause but as i said im socialised with Maya and i know its Toolset.
> I dont like 3D Max, Lightwave is ok, XSI is also ok, but can XSI directly 
> Export
> the 3D Modells to FG? I dont like the Idee converting arround, there is 
> everything
> a bit of loss wich i will try to Avoid. AC3D is not Solution for me, is 
> primitive
> and not comparable to Maya or XSI.
>
> Peter


I agree, converting between formats can be problematic. XSI has very
powerful and versatile scripting tools, Maya has MEL for scripting,
and the .ac format is text-based and relatively simple. With a little
research and effort you can create your own exporter script and
exactly control your exported mesh. I've been tempted to do this for
XSI, but Blender already has a Python script included with the base
package that does a very good job of exporting to the .ac format, and
this works for me as I'm comfortable with both applications. There may
be scripts out there to do this for XSI or Maya now, I haven't checked
in a while. The answer to your question likely depends on what you are
willing to do.

-Gary, "Buckaroo" on MP




> - Ursprüngliche Mail 
> Von: Gary Neely 
> An: FlightGear developers discussions 
> Gesendet: Sonntag, den 31. Januar 2010, 20:41:25 Uhr
> Betreff: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Can i use Maya 2009 building Aircraft for 
> Flightgear 1.9.1 and v 2.0?
>
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Peter Meyer  wrote:
>> I mean the technical Part.
>> because iam socialiced with Maya and i can do some fine modelling with it.
>> AC3D is an ugly Tool and no good alternate. Myays of cause has an *.obj 
>> Exporter
>> but it is old and complex Objects are cripplet durning Exportation (iam no 
>> Friend
>> of Exporting 3D Objects at all, there is everytime a loss of something).
>>
>> It would be great if there was 3DS Max File Support, Maya File Format Support
>> or Lightware File Format Support.
>>
>> Blender isnt bad but all 3D Objects are shaped with the Blender touch wich
>> i will try to avoid!
>>
>> Greetings Peter
>
>
> I'm with Heiko. I use XSI, Blender and others for my work and for my
> Flightgear projects. Like a carpenter with many different saws, every
> 3D application is just a tool in my toolbox, each with different
> qualities and features.
>
> -Gary, "Buckaroo" on MP
>
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Can i use Maya 2009 building Aircraft for Flightgear 1.9.1 and v 2.0?

2010-01-31 Thread Heiko Schulz
Hi,


> Of cause but as i said im socialised
> with Maya and i know its Toolset.
> I dont like 3D Max, Lightwave is ok, XSI is also ok, but
> can XSI directly Export
> the 3D Modells to FG? I dont like the Idee converting
> arround, there is everything
> a bit of loss wich i will try to Avoid. AC3D is not
> Solution for me, is primitive
> and not comparable to Maya or XSI.
> 
> Peter

Are you talking about formats or software?

If you have a software your are more socialised with, use it.
 
But beware of that FlightGear may not read/ use all formats, and animations has 
to be specified per .xml.

We use mainly .ac, .3ds and .osg as format. There are several other formats 
supported, but can't say which as I don't have the list near with me.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Can i use Maya 2009 building Aircraft for Flightgear 1.9.1 and v 2.0?

2010-01-31 Thread Peter Meyer
Of cause but as i said im socialised with Maya and i know its Toolset.
I dont like 3D Max, Lightwave is ok, XSI is also ok, but can XSI directly Export
the 3D Modells to FG? I dont like the Idee converting arround, there is 
everything
a bit of loss wich i will try to Avoid. AC3D is not Solution for me, is 
primitive
and not comparable to Maya or XSI.

Peter


- Ursprüngliche Mail 
Von: Gary Neely 
An: FlightGear developers discussions 
Gesendet: Sonntag, den 31. Januar 2010, 20:41:25 Uhr
Betreff: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Can i use Maya 2009 building Aircraft for 
Flightgear 1.9.1 and v 2.0?

On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Peter Meyer  wrote:
> I mean the technical Part.
> because iam socialiced with Maya and i can do some fine modelling with it.
> AC3D is an ugly Tool and no good alternate. Myays of cause has an *.obj 
> Exporter
> but it is old and complex Objects are cripplet durning Exportation (iam no 
> Friend
> of Exporting 3D Objects at all, there is everytime a loss of something).
>
> It would be great if there was 3DS Max File Support, Maya File Format Support
> or Lightware File Format Support.
>
> Blender isnt bad but all 3D Objects are shaped with the Blender touch wich
> i will try to avoid!
>
> Greetings Peter


I'm with Heiko. I use XSI, Blender and others for my work and for my
Flightgear projects. Like a carpenter with many different saws, every
3D application is just a tool in my toolbox, each with different
qualities and features.

-Gary, "Buckaroo" on MP

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] materials.xml request

2010-01-31 Thread Erik Hofman
Stuart Buchanan wrote:
> Erik Hofman wrote:
>> Looks like that part is gone, at least the part where every random 
>> object in the scenery was in the same place every time you start up 
>> FlightGear. This used to be working at some point (and could be used for 
>> landmark navigation).
> 
> Hmmm, I've had a quick look at the code in question 
> (simgear/scene/tgdb/odj.cxx
> computeRandomObjects), and it doesn't look like it has changed since I wrote 
> it, so
> I'm surprised it no-longer works.
> 
> Unfortunately I can't test this at present as my graphics card is kaput. That 
> isn't going
> to be resolved for a couple of weeks, so if someone wants to take a look, 
> they are
> welcome.
> 
> Sorry I can't be of more help, or maintain my own code in a timely manner at 
> present.

Oh, it's not a show stopper but it was a feature I found to be one of 
the nice things about FlightGear. Maybe I will take a look at it some time.

Erik

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] materials.xml request

2010-01-31 Thread Stuart Buchanan
Erik Hofman wrote:

> Stuart Buchanan wrote:
> > It's been a long time since I (re-)wrote the random object code for OSG, 
> > but 
> my 
> > recollection is that we use the same random number seed when generating 
> > random model placements, to ensure that a building is in the same place on 
> > every computer.
> 
> Looks like that part is gone, at least the part where every random 
> object in the scenery was in the same place every time you start up 
> FlightGear. This used to be working at some point (and could be used for 
> landmark navigation).

Hmmm, I've had a quick look at the code in question (simgear/scene/tgdb/odj.cxx
computeRandomObjects), and it doesn't look like it has changed since I wrote 
it, so
I'm surprised it no-longer works.

Unfortunately I can't test this at present as my graphics card is kaput. That 
isn't going
to be resolved for a couple of weeks, so if someone wants to take a look, they 
are
welcome.

Sorry I can't be of more help, or maintain my own code in a timely manner at 
present.

-Stuart



  

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Can i use Maya 2009 building Aircraft for Flightgear 1.9.1 and v 2.0?

2010-01-31 Thread Gary Neely
On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Peter Meyer  wrote:
> I mean the technical Part.
> because iam socialiced with Maya and i can do some fine modelling with it.
> AC3D is an ugly Tool and no good alternate. Myays of cause has an *.obj 
> Exporter
> but it is old and complex Objects are cripplet durning Exportation (iam no 
> Friend
> of Exporting 3D Objects at all, there is everytime a loss of something).
>
> It would be great if there was 3DS Max File Support, Maya File Format Support
> or Lightware File Format Support.
>
> Blender isnt bad but all 3D Objects are shaped with the Blender touch wich
> i will try to avoid!
>
> Greetings Peter


I'm with Heiko. I use XSI, Blender and others for my work and for my
Flightgear projects. Like a carpenter with many different saws, every
3D application is just a tool in my toolbox, each with different
qualities and features.

-Gary, "Buckaroo" on MP

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] materials.xml request

2010-01-31 Thread Erik Hofman
Stuart Buchanan wrote:
> It's been a long time since I (re-)wrote the random object code for OSG, but 
> my 
> recollection is that we use the same random number seed when generating 
> random model placements, to ensure that a building is in the same place on 
> every computer.

Looks like that part is gone, at least the part where every random 
object in the scenery was in the same place every time you start up 
FlightGear. This used to be working at some point (and could be used for 
landmark navigation).

Erik

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Can i use Maya 2009 building Aircraft for Flightgear 1.9.1 and v 2.0?

2010-01-31 Thread Heiko Schulz
Hi,

> I mean the technical Part.
> because iam socialiced with Maya and i can do some fine
> modelling with it.
> AC3D is an ugly Tool and no good alternate. Myays of cause
> has an *.obj Exporter
> but it is old and complex Objects are cripplet durning
> Exportation (iam no Friend
> of Exporting 3D Objects at all, there is everytime a loss
> of something).
> 
> It would be great if there was 3DS Max File Support, Maya
> File Format Support
> or Lightware File Format Support. 
> 
> Blender isnt bad but all 3D Objects are shaped with the
> Blender touch wich
> i will try to avoid!
> 
> Greetings Peter

The question is not the software you use. The software is just a tool. You can 
use any tool you want for.

The question should be instead which formats you can use later in FGFS!
This is dependant on OSG we use, but it supports a lot of known formats.
The Lightwave format isn't supported much well to my knowledge, but I might be 
wrong. 

btw: I can't recognize the Blender touch- can you explain it to me?

http://www.yafaray.org/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1683&g2_serialNumber=4
 

http://www.yafaray.org/gallery?g2_itemId=1385

http://www.yafaray.org/gallery?g2_itemId=1015

;-)



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Can i use Maya 2009 building Aircraft for Flightgear 1.9.1 and v 2.0?

2010-01-31 Thread Peter Meyer
I mean the technical Part.
because iam socialiced with Maya and i can do some fine modelling with it.
AC3D is an ugly Tool and no good alternate. Myays of cause has an *.obj Exporter
but it is old and complex Objects are cripplet durning Exportation (iam no 
Friend
of Exporting 3D Objects at all, there is everytime a loss of something).

It would be great if there was 3DS Max File Support, Maya File Format Support
or Lightware File Format Support. 

Blender isnt bad but all 3D Objects are shaped with the Blender touch wich
i will try to avoid!

Greetings Peter



- Ursprüngliche Mail 
Von: Roberto Inzerillo 
An: FlightGear developers discussions 
Gesendet: Sonntag, den 31. Januar 2010, 18:38:09 Uhr
Betreff: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Can i use Maya 2009 building Aircraft for 
Flightgear 1.9.1 and v 2.0?

> Hi, the Topic explains it allready.
> Thx for help!

Do you mean from a technical point of view (i.e. if it's even possible 
with such a tool) or are you concerned with license issues?

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Can i use Maya 2009 building Aircraft for Flightgear 1.9.1 and v 2.0?

2010-01-31 Thread Roberto Inzerillo
> Hi, the Topic explains it allready.
> Thx for help!

Do you mean from a technical point of view (i.e. if it's even possible 
with such a tool) or are you concerned with license issues?

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[Flightgear-devel] Can i use Maya 2009 building Aircraft for Flightgear 1.9.1 and v 2.0?

2010-01-31 Thread Peter Meyer
Hi, the Topic explains it allready.
Thx for help!

Peter

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Money and Contributions

2010-01-31 Thread Victhor Foster
Oh I was just kidding.

> On 1/31/10 12:57 PM, Victhor Foster wrote:
>> I don't trust the FSF. I don't think Mr. Stallman is a nice person.
> 
> How about SPI?
> 
> http://www.spi-inc.org/
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> -- 
> Lech Karol Pawłaszek 
> "You will never see me fall from grace" [KoRn]
> 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Money and Contributions

2010-01-31 Thread Lech Karol Pawłaszek
On 1/31/10 12:57 PM, Victhor Foster wrote:
> I don't trust the FSF. I don't think Mr. Stallman is a nice person.

How about SPI?

http://www.spi-inc.org/

Kind regards,

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Money and Contributions

2010-01-31 Thread Dale J. Chatham
Not sure why you don't trust the FSF. It has changed a lot since the 
beginnings and Mr. Stallman's views very clearly do not drive it.

I had a run-in with Mr. Stall in 1986. I had called because I couldn't 
believe that I was required to dump anything I wrote in gnu C under his 
license. We argued for a while after which he threatened to sue for 
copyright breach if I didn't comply. The law allowed him to collect 
double damages, which would have been the price of C/C++ at the time or 
zero bucks.

The license is very different now and basically allows you to keep 
anything you write with it. It was that change in the GPL to which I 
believe he can attribute the success of FSF.

You're right, he's not a very nice person, but the FSF is bound as much 
by the GPL as we are.


Victhor Foster wrote:
> I don't trust the FSF. I don't think Mr. Stallman is a nice person.
> (I hear all the time he doesn't take baths :P)
>
>   
-- 
“I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think 
the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but 
leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed 
in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, 
the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the 
contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and 
became richer.”

– Ben Franklin


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Money and Contributions

2010-01-31 Thread Victhor Foster
I don't trust the FSF. I don't think Mr. Stallman is a nice person.
(I hear all the time he doesn't take baths :P)

> On Sunday 31 January 2010 12:40:54 Durk Talsma wrote:
> 
>> I remember being involved in the discussions. I've also been thinking about
>> the possibilities of setting up a non-profit organization for the support
>> of various aspects of FlightGear.
> 
> I wonder if some existing organization may fit that role already. Maybe as an 
> example the Free Software Foundation could handle those things. They work for 
> free software, are arguably trustworthy, have branches all over the world and 
> loads of experience in such matter. I don't know if they would help, if we 
> want to trust them and if it's at all possible, but it may at least be worth 
> a 
> thought or two.
> 
> Stefan
> 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Money and Contributions

2010-01-31 Thread Stefan Seifert
On Sunday 31 January 2010 12:40:54 Durk Talsma wrote:

> I remember being involved in the discussions. I've also been thinking about
> the possibilities of setting up a non-profit organization for the support
>  of various aspects of FlightGear.

I wonder if some existing organization may fit that role already. Maybe as an 
example the Free Software Foundation could handle those things. They work for 
free software, are arguably trustworthy, have branches all over the world and 
loads of experience in such matter. I don't know if they would help, if we 
want to trust them and if it's at all possible, but it may at least be worth a 
thought or two.

Stefan

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Money and Contributions

2010-01-31 Thread Durk Talsma
Hi,

On Saturday 30 January 2010 10:35:13 am Torsten Dreyer wrote:
> > Where does the donation money go ? To who ? And for what ?I dont like
> > donating money when I have no idea what Im donating to.
> >
> > This is just another idea  since I dont know how one would set this up 
> > ... How about an FSWeekend fund to help out the crew that puts in a good
> > amount of work , time , and probably money out of thier own pockets do do
> > this event.
> > I would certainly donate something to that , if I knew what it was going
> > to , and my reward is the stories , pictures and videos of the event .
> > Maybe with the total to date displayed somewhere so that we could dig a
> > little deeper as the event draws near. :)
> > Cheers
>
> Actually, the FSWeekend/LinuxTag crew thought about founding a non profit
> (called "gemeinnütziger Verein" in Germany) last year, but didn't pursue
> that idea any further.

I remember being involved in the discussions. I've also been thinking about 
the possibilities of setting up a non-profit organization for the support of 
various aspects of FlightGear. Under dutch law, a non-profit organization 
("stichting" in Dutch or "foundation" in English (I gues)) is tax exempt (as 
in most countries I guess). What I was thinking about was setting up a 
foundation that serves as a granting agency: I collecting money though 
donation / memberships, etc etc. Individuals who wish to organize something on 
behalf of FlightGear could then write a proposal that will be used by the 
foundation to distribute the funds. As far as I can see, this is the most 
transparent way in going about these issues. The main drawbacks, however, are 
that it requires quite a bit of Bureacratic overhead that I'm not sure I'm 
willing to handle, and that the international nature of FlightGear complicates 
things. Nevertheless, it's an idea worth pursuing. 

> Although the booth comes at no cost, there is usually a good amount of
> money that has to be spent by the participants. Not only accomodation and
> travel, but insurance for equipment was once an issue. Last year, we bought
> six (IIRC) big side screen displays. Donations from a few of us made that
> possible.
>

For FSWeekend, we've managed to organize everything at a reasonably low cost 
so far. Every year, I'm investing a little bit, but I've been trying to keep 
an eye toward general usability. During the last event, my main investment 
consisted of a very nice projector screen, (in addition to a triple screen 
linux box, which I had already ordered for the previous show, but which didn't 
arrive in time; and two printed banners). The screen actually has an 
interesting history, because we ended up not being able to take it back to my 
place. So eventually Torsten took it home, and he liked it so much that it 
eventually changed ownership... :-)

I certainly wouldn't object against donations for FSWeekend, but part of the 
fun is to try to get everything organized with minimal cost. 

Cheers,
Durk

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Phantom set files

2010-01-31 Thread Innis Cunningham

 Hi Csaba
Thanks for that.Now next silly question were exactly is that file.
I have had a look in a couple of places but can't find it.
 
> 
> FG is caching the list of set files in the autosave.xml. It doesn't
> store the set file itself, though. But it does pick up set files from
> the whole Aircrafts subtree, no matter which directory they are in.

Cheers
Innis
 
  
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Money and Contributions

2010-01-31 Thread Durk Talsma
Hi Hans,

On Saturday 30 January 2010 11:29:26 am Hans Janssen wrote:
> I got a bill for almost 1000,- EURO just for umts bandwith use for last
> FSWeekend ( wich i managed to smoothtalk down to 150.- though).

Yikes! I guess we should make a serious cost-benefit analysis before going 
online again next year... Nevertheless, I wish I had your negotiation skills.

Cheers,
Durk

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