Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> If you read back in this thread, the problem was dealt with at length and solved. Dennis SentafromamyaBlackBerrya10asmartphoneaonatheaBellanetwork. a Original Message a From: userbeit...@abwesend.de Sent: Saturday, April 8, 2017 3:38 AM To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk On 2017-03-24 03:46, Dennis Fenton wrote: > Read what I wrote. I burned the iso to a CD. I also downloaded the floppy img. It doesn't fit! > So my first interaction on this forum is from someone who treats me like a dummy. Perhaps another reason to say to Hell with FreeDOS. This is not possible. The FLOPPY.img contained in http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip is exactly 1474560 bytes big, which is the size of a 1.44 MB floppy disk. If this image doesn't fit, no 1.44 MB image will fit on your floppy. In other words: the image is the right size and something else must be wrong. And there is no need to be rude. "Pilot error" is correct in this case, and is meant to make you think - maybe it is you after all who is wrong. To make it absolutely clear: I can confirm that this image WILL FIT on any 1.44 MB floppy drive. I cannot confirm if it will actually boot (I didn't test this... yet... or not that I recall at the moment) BUT it is the right size. Thus it must be you who is wrong with the "doesn't fit" statement. Even so, I understand very much that installing FreeDOS is not trivial since you need to account for so many different hardware cases. And it is very often just a driver that is missing; the original - long lost - driver from the driver disk supplied with the original hardware (IDE, SCSI, CDROM, ...) for DOS, OS/2 and Windows 3.1/NT 3.x... those were the days... Back then you would get the *then new* hardware with the driver on floppy. Trying to install FreeDOS now, about two decades later, makes it hard to get all the driver stuff (who preserves such things?) and configurations right (jumpers, C/H/S in the BIOS etc. - who preserves manuals and quick installation guides?). Good luck! I hope you will figure it out! (As I hope to find the time to make my 486 run FreeDOS eventually... I didn't find the time since after the New Years holidays...) Userbeitrag. The answer from Dennis is correct: > On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 9:32 PM, Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> wrote: >> After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for >> MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with. >> I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot >> floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external >> SCSI CD drive. >> To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a >> 1.44 floppy. > The ISO image isn't *intended* to fit on a floppy. It expects to be > installed on a CDROM. > > If you have a machine that *can't* boot form CD and must boot from > floppy, there's a boot floppy zip file you can extract to floppy to > boot from. That assumes the rest of the distribution will be on a CD > you can access from FreeDOS once you've booted from the floppy. See > the Boot Floppy option under "How to install FreeDOS 1.2 +" > > See http://www.freedos.org/download/ > >> This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an >> organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it >> wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image? >> Do you have a fix for this? > The problem is pilot error. Please read the applicable instructions > on the download page. > __ > Dennis -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Eric AuerHi Rugxulo, > If you already have the original gold standard of DOSes, i.e. MS-DOS > (which was widely tested and hugely popular, by far the most > ubiquitous DOS), then you don't urgently "need" any other DOS > clone at all all, period. Being the most widely used does not equal being the best. For example Linux is great for certain use cases and this is not changed by "but millions already have Windows" as an argument to use Windows instead for those use cases... Similarily, FreeDOS gives you a lot of DOS, a lot newer than the early 1990s Microsoft version, often in a much smaller package both in terms of disk space and in terms of the amount of RAM needed. And newer drivers :-) On the other hand, all DOS clones have to be extremely similar to MS DOS when it comes to supporting software apps for DOS. Because if you first have to port your XYZ app for Linux to "the cool new OS ABC" which also behaves a bit like DOS, then most users would simply use XYZ directly in Linux and not care about DOS. But as FreeDOS and other clones basically run ALL the good old software for DOS, clones are clearly attractive. Note that if you want to use more than 1 core of your CPU or more than 4 GB of RAM, then DOS is not for you. A multi tasking 64 bit OS will make you more happy then and nobody complains about a few GB of disk space there. A reason to use FreeDOS in spite of already having MS DOS: Your new hardware has bad support from MS DOS and you want to have more RAM free and a few new drivers. Of course you are free to achieve that by MIXING the best files from both versions of DOS, as you already owned MS DOS in my example. Cheers, Eric -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: userbeit...@abwesend.de On 2017-03-24 03:46, Dennis Fenton wrote: > Read what I wrote. I burned the iso to a CD. I also downloaded the floppy img. It doesn't fit! > So my first interaction on this forum is from someone who treats me like a dummy. Perhaps another reason to say to Hell with FreeDOS. This is not possible. The FLOPPY.img contained in http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip is exactly 1474560 bytes big, which is the size of a 1.44 MB floppy disk. If this image doesn't fit, no 1.44 MB image will fit on your floppy. In other words: the image is the right size and something else must be wrong. And there is no need to be rude. "Pilot error" is correct in this case, and is meant to make you think - maybe it is you after all who is wrong. To make it absolutely clear: I can confirm that this image WILL FIT on any 1.44 MB floppy drive. I cannot confirm if it will actually boot (I didn't test this... yet... or not that I recall at the moment) BUT it is the right size. Thus it must be you who is wrong with the "doesn't fit" statement. Even so, I understand very much that installing FreeDOS is not trivial since you need to account for so many different hardware cases. And it is very often just a driver that is missing; the original - long lost - driver from the driver disk supplied with the original hardware (IDE, SCSI, CDROM, ...) for DOS, OS/2 and Windows 3.1/NT 3.x... those were the days... Back then you would get the *then new* hardware with the driver on floppy. Trying to install FreeDOS now, about two decades later, makes it hard to get all the driver stuff (who preserves such things?) and configurations right (jumpers, C/H/S in the BIOS etc. - who preserves manuals and quick installation guides?). Good luck! I hope you will figure it out! (As I hope to find the time to make my 486 run FreeDOS eventually... I didn't find the time since after the New Years holidays...) Userbeitrag. The answer from Dennis is correct: > On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 9:32 PM, Dennis Fentonwrote: >> After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for >> MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with. >> I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot >> floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external >> SCSI CD drive. >> To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a >> 1.44 floppy. > The ISO image isn't *intended* to fit on a floppy. It expects to be > installed on a CDROM. > > If you have a machine that *can't* boot form CD and must boot from > floppy, there's a boot floppy zip file you can extract to floppy to > boot from. That assumes the rest of the distribution will be on a CD > you can access from FreeDOS once you've booted from the floppy. See > the Boot Floppy option under "How to install FreeDOS 1.2 -+" > > See http://www.freedos.org/download/ > >> This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an >> organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it >> wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image? >> Do you have a fix for this? > The problem is pilot error. Please read the applicable instructions > on the download page. > __ > Dennis -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: RugxuloHi, On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Eric Auer wrote: > > I disagree about FreeDOS being "not ready yet" or "no advantage to MS DOS". If you already have the original gold standard of DOSes, i.e. MS-DOS (which was widely tested and hugely popular, by far the most ubiquitous DOS), then you don't urgently "need" any other DOS clone at all, period. Various DOS clones exist, and they all have minor advantages, but overall they work the same (no extra APIs offered, no utilizing newer advanced cpu features). For common DOS software (and loadable drivers), they all behave effectively the same (more or less) on any decent DOS kernel. Reasons not to use MS-DOS? It's unsupported and proprietary and harder to find. Reasons not to use FreeDOS? You just want to run the exact same software that already runs perfectly on your current MS-DOS install. Heck, apparently there are still people using TAWK, which is (apparently) proprietary and long dead. One guy was complaining that GAWK (aka, GPL) still doesn't 100% equal TAWK features despite being 20 years newer. Sound familiar? Old habits die hard. (In hindsight, it's best to not write proprietary, non-standard, unportable software at all, if you have a choice. Although nothing lasts forever, not even standards, it does certainly help to try to be portable/cross-platform from the start.) -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Ralf QuintOn 3/24/2017 4:36 PM, Dennis Fenton wrote: > I want the fat32 in order to see drives and files on my win98 computer if I use Laplink. I was also hoping FreeDOS will do a better job of getting Arachne online. It reports low memory with MS-DOS. I have run memmaker several times. Using FAT32 does not help you in seeing drives and files on another computer, either via laplink or by other means. This is either handled by the program itself (as in the case of Laplink) or it is matter of the network redirector being used... As for being low on memory, the main source of your problems are likely being the use of the SCSI/ASPI drivers as you mentioned in a previous post. Those things are/were huge in terms of DOS in general. FreeDOS won't give you here much of an advantage over any other DOS... Ralf --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> Don't need a network card with a dial-up modem. As for packet driver, Arachne comes with some. I am definately willing to try other browsers. SentafromamyaBlackBerrya10asmartphoneaonatheaBellanetwork. a Original Message a From: Rugxulo Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 6:44 PM To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk Hi, On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 6:36 PM, Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> wrote: > I want the fat32 in order to see drives and files on my win98 computer if I use Laplink. Okay, but that's only the kernel (and boot sector to load it), not all of the other files. Any single floppy could handle that minimal "install" for you. > I was also hoping FreeDOS will do a better job of getting Arachne online. It reports > low memory with MS-DOS. I have run memmaker several times. Unlikely to help much by itself, but who knows. Not to discourage use of Arachne by any means, but there are other web browsers as well, e.g. Links2 (which is 386+ DPMI, thus less stingy about memory): http://links.twibright.com/download/binaries/dos/ (grab links-2.14.exe and links.crt) But, again, that assumes a working packet driver and supported network card. So you do actually have one?? -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Jerome Shidel> On Mar 24, 2017, at 6:40 PM, Eric Auer wrote: > > > Hi Dennis, > >> The 486 that I plan to use FreeDOS on currentlyrCA has MS-DOS 6.22 as >> its only OS. My plan is to completely replace it but keep all my >> installed programs. The SCSI drivers are all in C:\SCSI and I notice >> FreeDOS has its own equivalent of MSCDEX.EXE. > > Well in that case, you can simply use the existing DOS SCSI > and CDROM drivers :-) You can even keep MSCDEX until you get > used to SHSUCDX later... And you can use your existing lines > from autoexec and config for the autoexec and (fd-) config > of FreeDOS. Only if you were using the MS DOS config sys > MENU system, you will have to change some things - syntax > for menus works in a different way in FreeDOS. I'd advise just plugging in his needed lines into the new configuration files. But, what ever is easiest. > > Maybe Jerome and Rugxulo can give some hints about how to > tell the installer to only install FreeDOS to the existing > C: drive of your MS DOS PC without damaging other programs If his old MS-DOS install is not under the FDOS\ directory (unless changed in advanced mode), it will just ignore it. That goes for other directories as well. If the existing target directory (Like FDOS\) for the OS already exists, it will be backed up and the cleaned out. > Even then, it is always very good to have a backup of all > files before updating. So if anything goes wrong, you can > use the backups to repair the damage :-) Yes, always backup! Jerome -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> Also, I'm curious. The 486 is not my main computer. It is a hobby project. While I would be disappointed is anything was lost in the transition, it wouldn't be the end of the world. I'm taking a break now. Please don't be offended if you post something and I don't respond immediately. I will let you all know how this works out. Dennis Sent-afrom-amy-aBlackBerry-a10-asmartphone-aon-athe-aBell-anetwork. -a Original Message -a From: Rugxulo Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 6:17 PM To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk Hi, On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> wrote: > > The 486 that I plan to use FreeDOS on currentlyrCA has MS-DOS 6.22 as its only OS. > My plan is to completely replace it but keep all my installed programs. The SCSI > drivers are all in C:\SCSI and I notice FreeDOS has its own equivalent of MSCDEX.EXE. If you have anything more important than games (and/or don't have the original installation media for them and/or the disks for the version of MS-DOS you're using), then maybe you shouldn't quite install FreeDOS "just yet"! Especially any personal files (personal docs, sources, game saves, registration keys), make sure to back those up several times! It might be safer to use a separate hard drive entirely for FreeDOS so that you don't risk deleting anything important. You never did mention if you have a working packet driver (I'll assume not), but it might make backing up files a lot easier. If you just want to play around with FreeDOS, just use a bootable floppy (as suggested), which will minimally let you use the FD kernel with all of your pre-existing utils. Honestly, if you already have MS-DOS, then you probably aren't the target audience for FreeDOS at all. (Not to be pessimistic, but FreeDOS doesn't normally offer much more, by itself, over MS-DOS. Although it does support FAT32, unlike MS-DOS v6 [FAT12/16 only], which can be more efficient for large drives.) You don't technically "need" two different kernels (but maybe you want to compare). In that case, MetaKern may be of interest to you: http://freedos.gds.tuwien.ac.at/freedos/news/technote/184.html https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/util/boot/metakern/ -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> I want the fat32 in order to see drives and files on my win98 computer if I use Laplink. I was also hoping FreeDOS will do a better job of getting Arachne online. It reports low memory with MS-DOS. I have run memmaker several times. Sent-afrom-amy-aBlackBerry-a10-asmartphone-aon-athe-aBell-anetwork. -a Original Message -a From: Rugxulo Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 6:17 PM To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk Hi, On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> wrote: > > The 486 that I plan to use FreeDOS on currentlyrCA has MS-DOS 6.22 as its only OS. > My plan is to completely replace it but keep all my installed programs. The SCSI > drivers are all in C:\SCSI and I notice FreeDOS has its own equivalent of MSCDEX.EXE. If you have anything more important than games (and/or don't have the original installation media for them and/or the disks for the version of MS-DOS you're using), then maybe you shouldn't quite install FreeDOS "just yet"! Especially any personal files (personal docs, sources, game saves, registration keys), make sure to back those up several times! It might be safer to use a separate hard drive entirely for FreeDOS so that you don't risk deleting anything important. You never did mention if you have a working packet driver (I'll assume not), but it might make backing up files a lot easier. If you just want to play around with FreeDOS, just use a bootable floppy (as suggested), which will minimally let you use the FD kernel with all of your pre-existing utils. Honestly, if you already have MS-DOS, then you probably aren't the target audience for FreeDOS at all. (Not to be pessimistic, but FreeDOS doesn't normally offer much more, by itself, over MS-DOS. Although it does support FAT32, unlike MS-DOS v6 [FAT12/16 only], which can be more efficient for large drives.) You don't technically "need" two different kernels (but maybe you want to compare). In that case, MetaKern may be of interest to you: http://freedos.gds.tuwien.ac.at/freedos/news/technote/184.html https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/util/boot/metakern/ -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> Thanks Eric. SentafromamyaBlackBerrya10asmartphoneaonatheaBellanetwork. a Original Message a From: Eric Auer Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 7:21 PM To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk A backup on the same disk but different partitions does not really help you if things go really wrong, but as you say, data loss would be no real problem for you... You should probably backup at least the DOS SCSI drivers though ;-) Jerome also mentioned the drivers as being the most backup worthy files. As Jerome wrote, you can simply install to C:\FDOS and leave most of the rest of C: and D: unharmed. Outside the FDOS directory, only the config files (autoexec / config / fdconfig / similar) and boot files (kernel, maybe command) in the root directory of C:\ and the boot sector should get overwritten, not much else to worry about UNLESS you format or fdisk... In which case everything would be gone. As you already have some DOS (here: MS DOS) on the PC, I agree with Jerome that "not booted update" is worth a trying for a "smoother" change to FreeDOS. I disagree about FreeDOS being "not ready yet" or "no advantage to MS DOS". Examples of advantages: Several drivers are smaller in RAM compared to MS DOS versions, FreeDOS supports FAT32 and LBA :-) In particular, this means that you can (if your BIOS is not too old) harddisks up to 2 TB size and partitions of many GB size without problems. Regards, Eric > My internal hard drive is partitioned into C and D drives. The entire > contents of the C:\DOS directory is backed up on drive D. I also have > an MS-DOS boot disk that includes my current autoexec.bat and > config.sys files. -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Dale E SternerHas anyone noticed that on Ebay someone is selling a new HP mini with FREEDOS as its OS. Straight from the factory with FREEDOS no setting up. DS On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 20:32:15 -0500 Dennis Fenton writes: > After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for > MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with. > I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot > floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the > external > SCSI CD drive. > To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a > 1.44 floppy. > This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can > an > organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get > it > wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image? > Do you have a fix for this? > > - - > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > ** >From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052 *** Police Urge Americans to Carry This With Them at All Times The Observer http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/58d692d3b3aad12d31f69st02duc -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Eric AuerA backup on the same disk but different partitions does not really help you if things go really wrong, but as you say, data loss would be no real problem for you... You should probably backup at least the DOS SCSI drivers though ;-) Jerome also mentioned the drivers as being the most backup worthy files. As Jerome wrote, you can simply install to C:\FDOS and leave most of the rest of C: and D: unharmed. Outside the FDOS directory, only the config files (autoexec / config / fdconfig / similar) and boot files (kernel, maybe command) in the root directory of C:\ and the boot sector should get overwritten, not much else to worry about UNLESS you format or fdisk... In which case everything would be gone. As you already have some DOS (here: MS DOS) on the PC, I agree with Jerome that "not booted update" is worth a trying for a "smoother" change to FreeDOS. I disagree about FreeDOS being "not ready yet" or "no advantage to MS DOS". Examples of advantages: Several drivers are smaller in RAM compared to MS DOS versions, FreeDOS supports FAT32 and LBA :-) In particular, this means that you can (if your BIOS is not too old) harddisks up to 2 TB size and partitions of many GB size without problems. Regards, Eric > My internal hard drive is partitioned into C and D drives. The entire > contents of the C:\DOS directory is backed up on drive D. I also have > an MS-DOS boot disk that includes my current autoexec.bat and > config.sys files. -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: RugxuloHi, On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Dennis Fenton wrote: > > The 486 that I plan to use FreeDOS on currentlyrCA has MS-DOS 6.22 as its only OS. > My plan is to completely replace it but keep all my installed programs. The SCSI > drivers are all in C:\SCSI and I notice FreeDOS has its own equivalent of MSCDEX.EXE. If you have anything more important than games (and/or don't have the original installation media for them and/or the disks for the version of MS-DOS you're using), then maybe you shouldn't quite install FreeDOS "just yet"! Especially any personal files (personal docs, sources, game saves, registration keys), make sure to back those up several times! It might be safer to use a separate hard drive entirely for FreeDOS so that you don't risk deleting anything important. You never did mention if you have a working packet driver (I'll assume not), but it might make backing up files a lot easier. If you just want to play around with FreeDOS, just use a bootable floppy (as suggested), which will minimally let you use the FD kernel with all of your pre-existing utils. Honestly, if you already have MS-DOS, then you probably aren't the target audience for FreeDOS at all. (Not to be pessimistic, but FreeDOS doesn't normally offer much more, by itself, over MS-DOS. Although it does support FAT32, unlike MS-DOS v6 [FAT12/16 only], which can be more efficient for large drives.) You don't technically "need" two different kernels (but maybe you want to compare). In that case, MetaKern may be of interest to you: http://freedos.gds.tuwien.ac.at/freedos/news/technote/184.html https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/util/boot/metakern/ -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Ira Minor <ira.mi...@gmail.com> --===2471480371050748780== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1148df5c151ae4054b865f99 --001a1148df5c151ae4054b865f99 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 If you already have Windows 98 SE, you have DOS 7.1. I prefer it to FreeDOS because of better documentation. Ira irami...@gmail.com 805-212-0588 On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks Eric. > > Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network. > Original Message > From: Eric Auer > Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 7:21 PM > To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. > Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk > > > A backup on the same disk but different partitions > does not really help you if things go really wrong, > but as you say, data loss would be no real problem > for you... You should probably backup at least the > DOS SCSI drivers though ;-) Jerome also mentioned > the drivers as being the most backup worthy files. > > As Jerome wrote, you can simply install to C:\FDOS > and leave most of the rest of C: and D: unharmed. > Outside the FDOS directory, only the config files > (autoexec / config / fdconfig / similar) and boot > files (kernel, maybe command) in the root directory > of C:\ and the boot sector should get overwritten, > not much else to worry about UNLESS you format or > fdisk... In which case everything would be gone. > > As you already have some DOS (here: MS DOS) on the > PC, I agree with Jerome that "not booted update" is > worth a trying for a "smoother" change to FreeDOS. > > I disagree about FreeDOS being "not ready yet" or > "no advantage to MS DOS". Examples of advantages: > > Several drivers are smaller in RAM compared to MS > DOS versions, FreeDOS supports FAT32 and LBA :-) > > In particular, this means that you can (if your > BIOS is not too old) harddisks up to 2 TB size > and partitions of many GB size without problems. > > Regards, Eric > > > My internal hard drive is partitioned into C and D drives. The entire > > contents of the C:\DOS directory is backed up on drive D. I also have > > an MS-DOS boot disk that includes my current autoexec.bat and > > config.sys files. > > > > -- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > > > -- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > --001a1148df5c151ae4054b865f99 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you already have Windows 98 SE, you have DOS 7.1. I prefer it to FreeDOS because of better documentation.Iramailto:irami...@gmail.com; target="_blank">irami...@gmail.com -a805-212-0588 On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Dennis Fenton mailto:dwf...@gmail.com; target="_blank">dwf...@gmail.com wrote:Thanks Eric. Sent-afrom-amy-aBlackBerry-a10-asmartphone-aon-athe-aBell-anetwork. -a Original Message -a From: Eric Auer Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 7:21 PM To: mailto:freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net;>freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk A backup on the same disk but different partitions does not really help you if things go really wrong, but as you say, data loss would be no real problem for you... You should probably backup at least the DOS SCSI drivers though ;-) Jerome also mentioned the drivers as being the most backup worthy files. As Jerome wrote, you can simply install to C:\FDOS and leave most of the rest of C: and D: unharmed. Outside the FDOS directory, only the config files (autoexec / config / fdconfig / similar) and boot files (kernel, maybe command) in the root directory of C:\ and the boot sector should get overwritten, not much else to worry about UNLESS you format or fdisk... In which case everything would be gone. As you already have some DOS (here: MS DOS) on the PC, I agree with Jerome that not booted update is worth a trying for a
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Jerome Shidel <jer...@shidel.net> > On Mar 24, 2017, at 6:15 PM, Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> wrote: > > The 486 that I plan to use FreeDOS on currentlyrCA has MS-DOS 6.22 as its only OS. My plan is to completely replace it but keep all my installed programs. The SCSI drivers are all in C:\SCSI and I notice FreeDOS has its own equivalent of MSCDEX.EXE. > Ok, this is my advice. First backup: Create a MS-DOS boot floppy as a backup. That way if things go sideways you have a working boot disk with your needed drivers. Next Test: Without messing around with the FreeDOS install floppy, just boot it. It should work fine up to the "Gathering information" message. Then it would give you an error stating it cannot find the packages. You can then quit to The command prompt and look around. If you see drive C:, then let's try the "not booted upgrade" (NBU) install method or two drive (DOSBox) method. Install: The two drive method has you copy the contents of the CD to a separate drive. Then boot/run the FreeDOS setup program. The NBU method may be easiest for you. Basically, you just boot the system like normal. Then insert the floppy and CD. Go to drive A: and run "Setup". Make sure you let it backup your current OS! You may want to clean as much as possible out of your existing config.sys and autoexec.bat before using the upgrade method. That way there are fewer chances of a conflict occurring. Note: The NBU method is not an "official" way of installing an OS. It may fail horribly. That being said, I did what I could to get it to function properly. And, it worked fine in the limited testing I did with NBU installs. Jerome > Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network. > Original Message > From: Eric Auer > Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 4:33 PM > To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. > Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk > > > Hi Dennis, > >> I downloaded and installed WinImage 9.0 on my win98 computer. It has a >> floppy drive. I successfully wrote the img file to a floppy. >> Another issue occurred to me. My cd-rom drive is a SCSI external type. > > That might be a problem, depending on your SCSI controller > and whether it has good BIOS support etc etc. I assume you > refer to the CD-ROM of the PC where you want to install DOS? > > By the way, does that PC also have another operating system? > Do you want to replace that by DOS? Or install both side by > side as "dual boot"? The latter requires special steps, the > former can mean that current disk contents get overwritten. > >> The new boot floppy has an fdconfig.sys and an autoexecrCA.bat file. I'm thinking >> I need to add lines to both to recognize the SCSI drive when it boots. > > If you have good DOS drivers for the drive and know how to > configure them, then you can do that. If you plan to install > DOS on a computer where you already have or can install some > operating system with easy internet, then I would recommend > another method: Copy the ISO file of FreeDOS to a FAT drive > on the PC where you want to install DOS and then "mount" it > as if it would be the CD of FreeDOS :-) If the boot floppy > has no automatic support for that, then I am sure that some > extra explanation of this trick could be given by Rugxulo or > Jerome, with examples of what to put where in fdconfig and > autoexec on the boot floppy :-) > > The idea is that you need no hardware specific drivers at all > to open the ISO if you already have it on the future DOS PC, > so you avoid all worries about SCSI and CDROM drivers then. > > You still do need that special ISO driver, of course, but as > that is not specific to certain hardware, it is easy to use. > > Cheers, Eric > > > > -- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > > -- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Ralf QuintThis is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===4382838559081096216== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="4D1B7CFD38F21CC1995B7B76" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --4D1B7CFD38F21CC1995B7B76 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 3/23/2017 9:47 PM, Gregg Eshelman wrote: > It is possible to format a floppy a bit over size. Most drives will > accommodate 2 to 4 extra tracks. Depending on the drive and the > controller it's possible to alter the number of sectors per track, but > all tracks must have the same number of sectors. Typically, altering > the number of sectors renders the format non-bootable. > > Schenk & Horn CopyStar is one such program. It's old, originally from > 1994, but it's known to work on Windows 2000, Server 2003 and older. > I've not tried it on XP and later. Probably not compatible with 64 bit > Windows. http://www.programfiles.com/Default.asp?LinkId=13681 > > Microsoft used an over-capacity format they called DMF. For programs > (like Windows 95) where the first disk had to be bootable it was > standard 1.44M. > > IBM used a different over-capacity format for OS/2's install disks, > but nothing included with OS/2 could write data to the disks, despite > the inclusion of a utility to create blank disks with that format. > (The largest all floppy install I ever did was OS/2 Warp 3.0, followed > by a couple of large updates.) Sorry, but all that is irrelevant to the problem at hand. He tried to copy an image file, that includes the file system as a single file onto a floppy disk that already contained a file system. He needed to use a program that write that image file sector by sector onto a floppy disk. And that way it will fit perfectly, no overformatting needed... > > If only the entire OEM computer industry had wholeheartedly adopted > the 2.88M floppy, instead of only IBM and Compaq sorta halfway > supporting it. "Hey look! We're making 2.88M floppy drives standard on > ALL our computers! How about YOU, Hewlett Packard, Packard Bell, > Gateway 2000... *Apple*? You wanna fall behind us? Keep using that > obsolete 1.44M!" The problem with the general adaptation of 2.88MB floppy disks was that those drives did have compatibility issues with reliably reading and more so, WRITING 1.44MB disks... Ralf --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --4D1B7CFD38F21CC1995B7B76 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 3/23/2017 9:47 PM, Gregg Eshelman wrote: It is possible to format a floppy a bit over size. Most drives will accommodate 2 to 4 extra tracks. Depending on the drive and the controller it's possible to alt --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> --===1415927088984765351== Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks SentfrommyBlackBerry10smartphoneontheBellnetwork. From: Ralf QuintSent: Friday, March 24, 2017 12:15 PMTo: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.netReply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk ima ge too big for a disk On 3/24/2017 5:42 AM, Dennis Fenton wrote: I was just trying to simply copy it. I get an insufficient space message. That is to be expected. A disk image is exactly that, a sector by sector image of EVERY sector on the disk. That includes those of the boot sector (includes the BPB-BIOS Paramter Block), 14 sectors for the root directory and 18 sectors for the two copies of FAT12. Those 33 sectors leave on a formatted 1.44MB floppy disk 2847 sectors (out of 2880 sectors of an unformatted disk). To write a floppy disk IMAGE to a floppy, you need a program that writes that image SECTOR FOR SECTOR back to the disk, not as a single file as you have tried. On Unix/Linux systems, the easiest way to achive that is to use the "dd" command or WinRaWrite on a Windows system (or rawrite if you have another DOS only system). I personally used for probably more than two decades by now a Shareware program called WinImage, which also does works nicely to create quickly images from floppy disks or CD-ROMs... Ralf https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=emailutm_source=linkutm_campaign=sig-emailutm_content=emailclientutm_term=icon; target="_blank">https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif; width="46" height="29" style="width: 46px; height: 29px;"> Virus-free. https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=emailutm_source=linkutm_campaign=sig-emailutm_content=emailclientutm_term=link; target="_blank" style="color: #4453ea;">www.avast.com --===1415927088984765351== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot --===1415927088984765351== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --===1415927088984765351==-- --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Eric AuerHi Dennis, > The 486 that I plan to use FreeDOS on currentlyrCA has MS-DOS 6.22 as > its only OS. My plan is to completely replace it but keep all my > installed programs. The SCSI drivers are all in C:\SCSI and I notice > FreeDOS has its own equivalent of MSCDEX.EXE. Well in that case, you can simply use the existing DOS SCSI and CDROM drivers :-) You can even keep MSCDEX until you get used to SHSUCDX later... And you can use your existing lines from autoexec and config for the autoexec and (fd-) config of FreeDOS. Only if you were using the MS DOS config sys MENU system, you will have to change some things - syntax for menus works in a different way in FreeDOS. Maybe Jerome and Rugxulo can give some hints about how to tell the installer to only install FreeDOS to the existing C: drive of your MS DOS PC without damaging other programs. Even then, it is always very good to have a backup of all files before updating. So if anything goes wrong, you can use the backups to repair the damage :-) Regards, Eric -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> Check! Sent-afrom-amy-aBlackBerry-a10-asmartphone-aon-athe-aBell-anetwork. -a Original Message -a From: Eric Auer Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 5:41 PM To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk Hi Dennis, > The 486 that I plan to use FreeDOS on currentlyrCA has MS-DOS 6.22 as > its only OS. My plan is to completely replace it but keep all my > installed programs. The SCSI drivers are all in C:\SCSI and I notice > FreeDOS has its own equivalent of MSCDEX.EXE. Well in that case, you can simply use the existing DOS SCSI and CDROM drivers :-) You can even keep MSCDEX until you get used to SHSUCDX later... And you can use your existing lines from autoexec and config for the autoexec and (fd-) config of FreeDOS. Only if you were using the MS DOS config sys MENU system, you will have to change some things - syntax for menus works in a different way in FreeDOS. Maybe Jerome and Rugxulo can give some hints about how to tell the installer to only install FreeDOS to the existing C: drive of your MS DOS PC without damaging other programs. Even then, it is always very good to have a backup of all files before updating. So if anything goes wrong, you can use the backups to repair the damage :-) Regards, Eric -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Ralf QuintThis is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===1656748613992134465== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="3E16757BA8FAC21C53D0B19F" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --3E16757BA8FAC21C53D0B19F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 3/24/2017 5:42 AM, Dennis Fenton wrote: > I was just trying to simply copy it. I get an insufficient space message. That is to be expected. A disk image is exactly that, a sector by sector image of EVERY sector on the disk. That includes those of the boot sector (includes the BPB-BIOS Paramter Block), 14 sectors for the root directory and 18 sectors for the two copies of FAT12. Those 33 sectors leave on a formatted 1.44MB floppy disk 2847 sectors (out of 2880 sectors of an unformatted disk). To write a floppy disk IMAGE to a floppy, you need a program that writes that image SECTOR FOR SECTOR back to the disk, not as a single file as you have tried. On Unix/Linux systems, the easiest way to achive that is to use the "dd" command or WinRaWrite on a Windows system (or rawrite if you have another DOS only system). I personally used for probably more than two decades by now a Shareware program called WinImage, which also does works nicely to create quickly images from floppy disks or CD-ROMs... Ralf --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --3E16757BA8FAC21C53D0B19F Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 3/24/2017 5:42 AM, Dennis Fenton wrote: I was just trying to simply copy it. I get an insufficient space message. That is to be expected. A disk image is exactly that, a sector by sector image of EVERY --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> Thanks. I'll try. SentafromamyaBlackBerrya10asmartphoneaonatheaBellanetwork. a Original Message a From: Jerome Shidel Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 7:17 AM To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk > On Mar 23, 2017, at 11:56 PM, Felix Miata <mrma...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip > "boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, 2847 > 512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded image > would not fit here either. I see where the confusion may be coming from. After formatting a floppy image using FreeDOS, it states: 1,474,560 bytes total disk space (disk size) 1,456,664 bytes available on disk (free clusters) It would appear that the number 1457664 is the usable empty free space on the disk once it has been low level formatted and then formatted with the standard DOS file system. So, you probably do have a correct sized floppy diskette. However, you will need to use the appropriate tool to place the floppy image file onto the diskette. Other messages in this thread mention programs like rawrite & dd. These all work very well for this task. Jerome -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> I see. SentafromamyaBlackBerrya10asmartphoneaonatheaBellanetwork. a Original Message a From: Eric Auer Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 11:38 AM To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk Hi Felix and Dennis, > I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip > "boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, 2847 > 512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded image > would not fit here either. That is a misunderstanding. The FLOPPY really is 80 tracks, 2 sides, 18 sectors per track, 512 bytes per sector: 1474560 bytes is correct. However, if you want to put a FILE on a floppy, then the maximum size for the FILE is less, because some space is used by the FAT filesystem. So 1457664 is the size left for you to put files on. This is why the boot floppy disk image has to be copied with some special tools (Linux: dd, DOS: diskcopy, Windows: ..., Mac: ...) which copy contents, filesystem, boot sector etc. all at once. This also is why you do not see files IN that single image file in FD12FLOPPY.zip: You would have to "open" the file as a FAT filesystem to see the files that you will later see on your disk after putting the diskimage as a whole on the floppy. If we would offer the files separately in the ZIP, you would be able to see and edit them at once, which is good, BUT you would need a separate tool to install a boot sector to make it bootable, which is inconvenient, because SYS is only available for DOS and similar tools for other OS (like makebootfat or sys-freedos.pl for Linux) would need specific command line options to produce optimized DOS boot sectors. Regards, Eric -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> The 486 that I plan to use FreeDOS on currentlyrCA has MS-DOS 6.22 as its only OS. My plan is to completely replace it but keep all my installed programs. The SCSI drivers are all in C:\SCSI and I notice FreeDOS has its own equivalent of MSCDEX.EXE. Sent-afrom-amy-aBlackBerry-a10-asmartphone-aon-athe-aBell-anetwork. -a Original Message -a From: Eric Auer Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 4:33 PM To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk Hi Dennis, > I downloaded and installed WinImage 9.0 on my win98 computer. It has a > floppy drive. I successfully wrote the img file to a floppy. > Another issue occurred to me. My cd-rom drive is a SCSI external type. That might be a problem, depending on your SCSI controller and whether it has good BIOS support etc etc. I assume you refer to the CD-ROM of the PC where you want to install DOS? By the way, does that PC also have another operating system? Do you want to replace that by DOS? Or install both side by side as "dual boot"? The latter requires special steps, the former can mean that current disk contents get overwritten. > The new boot floppy has an fdconfig.sys and an autoexecrCA.bat file. I'm thinking > I need to add lines to both to recognize the SCSI drive when it boots. If you have good DOS drivers for the drive and know how to configure them, then you can do that. If you plan to install DOS on a computer where you already have or can install some operating system with easy internet, then I would recommend another method: Copy the ISO file of FreeDOS to a FAT drive on the PC where you want to install DOS and then "mount" it as if it would be the CD of FreeDOS :-) If the boot floppy has no automatic support for that, then I am sure that some extra explanation of this trick could be given by Rugxulo or Jerome, with examples of what to put where in fdconfig and autoexec on the boot floppy :-) The idea is that you need no hardware specific drivers at all to open the ISO if you already have it on the future DOS PC, so you avoid all worries about SCSI and CDROM drivers then. You still do need that special ISO driver, of course, but as that is not specific to certain hardware, it is easy to use. Cheers, Eric -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Eric AuerHi Felix and Dennis, > I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip > "boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, 2847 > 512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded image > would not fit here either. That is a misunderstanding. The FLOPPY really is 80 tracks, 2 sides, 18 sectors per track, 512 bytes per sector: 1474560 bytes is correct. However, if you want to put a FILE on a floppy, then the maximum size for the FILE is less, because some space is used by the FAT filesystem. So 1457664 is the size left for you to put files on. This is why the boot floppy disk image has to be copied with some special tools (Linux: dd, DOS: diskcopy, Windows: ..., Mac: ...) which copy contents, filesystem, boot sector etc. all at once. This also is why you do not see files IN that single image file in FD12FLOPPY.zip: You would have to "open" the file as a FAT filesystem to see the files that you will later see on your disk after putting the diskimage as a whole on the floppy. If we would offer the files separately in the ZIP, you would be able to see and edit them at once, which is good, BUT you would need a separate tool to install a boot sector to make it bootable, which is inconvenient, because SYS is only available for DOS and similar tools for other OS (like makebootfat or sys-freedos.pl for Linux) would need specific command line options to produce optimized DOS boot sectors. Regards, Eric -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> --===8131631414762694562== Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I downloaded and installed WinImage 9.0 on my win98 computer. It has a floppy drive. I successfully wrote the img file to a floppy.Another issue occurred to me. My cd-rom drive is a SCSI external type.The new boot floppy has an fdconfig.sys and an autoexecrCA.bat file. I'm thinking I need to add lines to both to recognize the SCSI drive when it boots. SentfrommyBlackBerry10smartphoneontheBellnetwork. From: Ralf QuintSent: Friday, March 24, 2017 12:15 PMTo: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.netReply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk On 3/24/2017 5:42 AM, Dennis Fenton wrote: I was just trying to simply copy it. I get an insufficient space message. That is to be expected. A disk image is exactly that, a sector by sector image of EVERY sector on the disk. That includes those of the boot sector (includes the BPB-BIOS Paramter Block), 14 sectors for the root directory and 18 sectors for the two copies of FAT12. Those 33 sectors leave on a formatted 1.44MB floppy disk 2847 sectors (out of 2880 sectors of an unformatted disk). To write a floppy disk IMAGE to a floppy, you need a program that writes that image SECTOR FOR SECTOR back to the disk, not as a single file as you have tried. On Unix/Linux systems, the easiest way to achive that is to use the "dd" command or WinRaWrite on a Windows system (or rawrite if you have another DOS only system). I personally used for probably more than two decades by now a Shareware program called WinImage, which also does works nicely to create quickly images from floppy disks or CD-ROMs... Ralf https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=emailutm_source=linkutm_campaign=sig-emailutm_content=emailclientutm_term=icon; target="_blank">https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif; width="46" height="29" style="width: 46px; height: 29px;"> Virus-free. https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=emailutm_source=linkutm_campaign=sig-emailutm_content=emailclientutm_term=link; target="_blank" style="color: #4453ea;">www.avast.com --===8131631414762694562== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot --===8131631414762694562== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --===8131631414762694562==-- --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Dennis FentonAfter some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with. I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external SCSI CD drive. To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a 1.44 floppy. This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image? Do you have a fix for this? -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Jerome ShidelA 1.44MB 3.5rCY DS HD floppy disk is 1,474,560 bytes when formatted. (2MB unformatted) It used 512 byte sectors, 18 sectors per track, 80 tracks per side and is/was a two sided media. 512 * 18 * 80 * 2 = 1474560 / 1024 = 1.44MB floppy. More information on this can be found at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_floppy_disk_formats Also, on Mac, Unix and Linux dd will write the disk image fine with a command like: sudo dd if=FD12FLOPPY.img of=/dev/fd0 (or similar) As a side note, PC-DOS 7 used oddly formatted diskettes for its install media. These provided a capacity lager than 1.44MB on its 3.5rCY install media. This was good to reduce the number of diskettes required. But, it made it more difficult to clone the original floppy disks for backup purposes. Also, it was not 100% compatible with all floppy drives and could cause other headaches as well. Jerome -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Gregg Eshelman <g_ala...@yahoo.com> --===5062282711183416658== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_Part_1937484_1016577170.1490330874749" Content-Length: 7708 --=_Part_1937484_1016577170.1490330874749 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It is possible to format a floppy a bit over size. Most drives will accommodate 2 to 4 extra tracks. Depending on the drive and the controller it's possible to alter the number of sectors per track, but all tracks must have the same number of sectors. Typically, altering the number of sectors renders the format non-bootable. Schenk & Horn CopyStar is one such program. It's old, originally from 1994, but it's known to work on Windows 2000, Server 2003 and older. I've not tried it on XP and later. Probably not compatible with 64 bit Windows. http://www.programfiles.com/Default.asp?LinkId=13681 Microsoft used an over-capacity format they called DMF. For programs (like Windows 95) where the first disk had to be bootable it was standard 1.44M. IBM used a different over-capacity format for OS/2's install disks, but nothing included with OS/2 could write data to the disks, despite the inclusion of a utility to create blank disks with that format. (The largest all floppy install I ever did was OS/2 Warp 3.0, followed by a couple of large updates.) If only the entire OEM computer industry had wholeheartedly adopted the 2.88M floppy, instead of only IBM and Compaq sorta halfway supporting it. "Hey look! We're making 2.88M floppy drives standard on ALL our computers! How about YOU, Hewlett Packard, Packard Bell, Gateway 2000... *Apple*? You wanna fall behind us? Keep using that obsolete 1.44M!" From: Felix Miata <mrma...@earthlink.net> To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip "boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, 2847 512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded image would not fit here either. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) -a Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata-a ***-a http://fm.no-ip.com/ --=_Part_1937484_1016577170.1490330874749 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It is possible to format a floppy a bit over size. Most drives will accommodate 2 to 4 extra tracks. Depending on the drive and the controller it's possible to alter the number of sectors per track, but all tracks must have the same number of sectors. Typically, altering the number of sectors renders the format non-bootable.Schenk Horn CopyStar is one such program. It's old, originally from 1994, but it's known to work on Windows 2000, Server 2003 and older. I've not tried it on XP and later. Probably not compatible with 64 bit Windows. http://www.programfiles.com/Default.asp?LinkId=13681; id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_169281" class="">http://www.programfiles.com/Default.asp?LinkId=13681Microsoft used an over-capacity format they called DMF. For programs (like Windows 95) where the first disk had to be bootable it was standard 1.44M.IBM used a different over-capacity format for OS/2's install disks, but nothing included with OS/2 could write data to the disks, despite the inclusion of a utility to create blank disks with that format. (The largest all floppy install I ever did was OS/2 Warp 3.0, followed by a couple of large updates.)If only the entire OEM computer industry had wholeheartedly adopted the 2.88M floppy, instead of only IBM and Compaq sorta halfway supporting it. "Hey look! We're making 2.88M floppy drives standard on ALL our computers! How about YOU, Hewlett Packard, Packard Bell, Gateway 2000... *Apple*? You wanna fall behind us? Keep using that obsolete 1.44M!" From: Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip; target="_blank" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1490315626629_169218">http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip "boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, 2847 512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded image would not fit here either.-- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasantwords are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a dis
From: "Thomas Mueller"from Dennis Fenton: > After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for > MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with. > I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot > floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external > SCSI CD drive. > To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a > 1.44 floppy. > This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an > organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it > wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image? > Do you have a fix for this? Is this the floppy image? http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip I just found it on FreeDOS download page. But if too big to fit on 1.44 floppy, could you boot the image with grub4dos (latest and final version is 0.4.4)? https://sourceforge.net/projects/grub4dos/ I have booted "floppy" images far too big to fit on actual floppy. Otherwise, you could possibly use Syslinux (latest version 6.03) with memdisk, or possibly Grub2. Tom -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Jerome Shidel> On Mar 23, 2017, at 11:56 PM, Felix Miata wrote: > > I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip > "boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, 2847 > 512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded image > would not fit here either. I see where the confusion may be coming from. After formatting a floppy image using FreeDOS, it states: 1,474,560 bytes total disk space (disk size) 1,456,664 bytes available on disk (free clusters) It would appear that the number 1457664 is the usable empty free space on the disk once it has been low level formatted and then formatted with the standard DOS file system. So, you probably do have a correct sized floppy diskette. However, you will need to use the appropriate tool to place the floppy image file onto the diskette. Other messages in this thread mention programs like rawrite & dd. These all work very well for this task. Jerome -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: dmccunneyOn Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 9:32 PM, Dennis Fenton wrote: > After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for > MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with. > I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot > floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external > SCSI CD drive. > To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a > 1.44 floppy. The ISO image isn't *intended* to fit on a floppy. It expects to be installed on a CDROM. If you have a machine that *can't* boot form CD and must boot from floppy, there's a boot floppy zip file you can extract to floppy to boot from. That assumes the rest of the distribution will be on a CD you can access from FreeDOS once you've booted from the floppy. See the Boot Floppy option under "How to install FreeDOS 1.2 -+" See http://www.freedos.org/download/ > This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an > organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it > wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image? > Do you have a fix for this? The problem is pilot error. Please read the applicable instructions on the download page. __ Dennis -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> Thanks. I'll try diskcopy. SentafromamyaBlackBerrya10asmartphoneaonatheaBellanetwork. a Original Message a From: Rugxulo Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 12:49 AM To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk Hi, On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:56 PM, Felix Miata <mrma...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip > "boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, 2847 > 512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded image > would not fit here either. I downloaded the above (FD12FLOPPY.zip) and two of my own images (BARE_DOS and MetaDOS). All of them have the same size (1474560). A simple "file *.img" tells me that they all have 2880 sectors. I've written a few real floppies in recent years with some of these and had no obvious problems. The obvious tool to use, among a million others variations, would be DISKCOPY: http://help.fdos.org/en/hhstndrd/base/diskcopy.htm (Here's some alternatives.) https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/message/35297505/ > -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant > words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) So, just for completeness, (direct or indirect) links to a bunch of (Free)DOS floppy images are found below here: https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/message/35557316/ Keep in mind that a 1.44 MB floppy doesn't hold many files (e.g. a full FD "BASE" won't fit) and isn't actively used by most users anymore (even in FreeDOS circles). Heck, floppies aren't even made anymore, and most modern x86 machines lack the drives (although you can probably still buy a USB floppy drive like I did). Thus it's somewhat ignored in favor of newer, more popular media. So there is no "full" install via floppy, thus you must figure things out manually (for the most part). Networking (using a working packet driver) helps tremendously. Otherwise you're stuck with copying manually (sneakernet). -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Felix MiataI just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip "boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, 2847 512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded image would not fit here either. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: less than infinite (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: RugxuloHi, On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:56 PM, Felix Miata wrote: > > I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip > "boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, 2847 > 512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded image > would not fit here either. I downloaded the above (FD12FLOPPY.zip) and two of my own images (BARE_DOS and MetaDOS). All of them have the same size (1474560). A simple "file *.img" tells me that they all have 2880 sectors. I've written a few real floppies in recent years with some of these and had no obvious problems. The obvious tool to use, among a million others variations, would be DISKCOPY: http://help.fdos.org/en/hhstndrd/base/diskcopy.htm (Here's some alternatives.) https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/message/35297505/ > -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant > words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) So, just for completeness, (direct or indirect) links to a bunch of (Free)DOS floppy images are found below here: https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/message/35557316/ Keep in mind that a 1.44 MB floppy doesn't hold many files (e.g. a full FD "BASE" won't fit) and isn't actively used by most users anymore (even in FreeDOS circles). Heck, floppies aren't even made anymore, and most modern x86 machines lack the drives (although you can probably still buy a USB floppy drive like I did). Thus it's somewhat ignored in favor of newer, more popular media. So there is no "full" install via floppy, thus you must figure things out manually (for the most part). Networking (using a working packet driver) helps tremendously. Otherwise you're stuck with copying manually (sneakernet). -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> Read what I wrote. I burned the iso to a CD. I also downloaded the floppy img. It doesn't fit! So my first interaction on this forum is from someone who treats me like a dummy. Perhaps another reason to say to Hell with FreeDOS. SentafromamyaBlackBerrya10asmartphoneaonatheaBellanetwork. a Original Message a From: dmccunney Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 9:26 PM To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 9:32 PM, Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> wrote: > After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for > MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with. > I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot > floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external > SCSI CD drive. > To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a > 1.44 floppy. The ISO image isn't *intended* to fit on a floppy. It expects to be installed on a CDROM. If you have a machine that *can't* boot form CD and must boot from floppy, there's a boot floppy zip file you can extract to floppy to boot from. That assumes the rest of the distribution will be on a CD you can access from FreeDOS once you've booted from the floppy. See the Boot Floppy option under "How to install FreeDOS 1.2 +" See http://www.freedos.org/download/ > This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an > organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it > wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image? > Do you have a fix for this? The problem is pilot error. Please read the applicable instructions on the download page. __ Dennis -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
From: Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> No bad sectors. I tried two different freshly formatted disks and ran scandisk on them just to be sure. SentafromamyaBlackBerrya10asmartphoneaonatheaBellanetwork. a Original Message a From: Felix Miata Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 10:30 PM To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk Dennis Fenton composed on 2017-03-23 20:32 (UTC-0500): > After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for > MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with. > I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot > floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external > SCSI CD drive. > To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a > 1.44 floppy. How much "too big"? Is it because your floppy has bad sectors. Floppies without bad sectors are rather uncommon around here. For this reason I try to avoid image writes, which demand all sectors in the media's spec be usable, and a format that worked once may well be that last the media will accept without error. > This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an > organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it > wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image? > Do you have a fix for this?-- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Internet Rex 2.29 * Origin: capcity2.synchro.net - 502/875-8938 (276:10/901) --- Synchronet 3.15a-Linux ListGate 1.3 * Capitol City Online - Frankfort, KY - telnet://capitolcityonline.net -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
If you read back in this thread, the problem was dealt with at length and solved. Dennis Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network. Original Message From: userbeit...@abwesend.de Sent: Saturday, April 8, 2017 3:38 AM To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk On 2017-03-24 03:46, Dennis Fenton wrote: > Read what I wrote. I burned the iso to a CD. I also downloaded the floppy > img. It doesn't fit! > So my first interaction on this forum is from someone who treats me like a > dummy. Perhaps another reason to say to Hell with FreeDOS. This is not possible. The FLOPPY.img contained in http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip is exactly 1474560 bytes big, which is the size of a 1.44 MB floppy disk. If this image doesn't fit, no 1.44 MB image will fit on your floppy. In other words: the image is the right size and something else must be wrong. And there is no need to be rude. "Pilot error" is correct in this case, and is meant to make you think - maybe it is you after all who is wrong. To make it absolutely clear: I can confirm that this image WILL FIT on any 1.44 MB floppy drive. I cannot confirm if it will actually boot (I didn't test this... yet... or not that I recall at the moment) BUT it is the right size. Thus it must be you who is wrong with the "doesn't fit" statement. Even so, I understand very much that installing FreeDOS is not trivial since you need to account for so many different hardware cases. And it is very often just a driver that is missing; the original - long lost - driver from the driver disk supplied with the original hardware (IDE, SCSI, CDROM, ...) for DOS, OS/2 and Windows 3.1/NT 3.x... those were the days... Back then you would get the *then new* hardware with the driver on floppy. Trying to install FreeDOS now, about two decades later, makes it hard to get all the driver stuff (who preserves such things?) and configurations right (jumpers, C/H/S in the BIOS etc. - who preserves manuals and quick installation guides?). Good luck! I hope you will figure it out! (As I hope to find the time to make my 486 run FreeDOS eventually... I didn't find the time since after the New Years holidays...) Userbeitrag. The answer from Dennis is correct: > On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 9:32 PM, Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> wrote: >> After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for >> MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with. >> I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot >> floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external >> SCSI CD drive. >> To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a >> 1.44 floppy. > The ISO image isn't *intended* to fit on a floppy. It expects to be > installed on a CDROM. > > If you have a machine that *can't* boot form CD and must boot from > floppy, there's a boot floppy zip file you can extract to floppy to > boot from. That assumes the rest of the distribution will be on a CD > you can access from FreeDOS once you've booted from the floppy. See > the Boot Floppy option under "How to install FreeDOS 1.2 »" > > See http://www.freedos.org/download/ > >> This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an >> organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it >> wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image? >> Do you have a fix for this? > The problem is pilot error. Please read the applicable instructions > on the download page. > __ > Dennis -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
On 2017-03-24 03:46, Dennis Fenton wrote: > Read what I wrote. I burned the iso to a CD. I also downloaded the floppy > img. It doesn't fit! > So my first interaction on this forum is from someone who treats me like a > dummy. Perhaps another reason to say to Hell with FreeDOS. This is not possible. The FLOPPY.img contained in http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip is exactly 1474560 bytes big, which is the size of a 1.44 MB floppy disk. If this image doesn't fit, no 1.44 MB image will fit on your floppy. In other words: the image is the right size and something else must be wrong. And there is no need to be rude. "Pilot error" is correct in this case, and is meant to make you think - maybe it is you after all who is wrong. To make it absolutely clear: I can confirm that this image WILL FIT on any 1.44 MB floppy drive. I cannot confirm if it will actually boot (I didn't test this... yet... or not that I recall at the moment) BUT it is the right size. Thus it must be you who is wrong with the "doesn't fit" statement. Even so, I understand very much that installing FreeDOS is not trivial since you need to account for so many different hardware cases. And it is very often just a driver that is missing; the original - long lost - driver from the driver disk supplied with the original hardware (IDE, SCSI, CDROM, ...) for DOS, OS/2 and Windows 3.1/NT 3.x... those were the days... Back then you would get the *then new* hardware with the driver on floppy. Trying to install FreeDOS now, about two decades later, makes it hard to get all the driver stuff (who preserves such things?) and configurations right (jumpers, C/H/S in the BIOS etc. - who preserves manuals and quick installation guides?). Good luck! I hope you will figure it out! (As I hope to find the time to make my 486 run FreeDOS eventually... I didn't find the time since after the New Years holidays...) Userbeitrag. The answer from Dennis is correct: > On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 9:32 PM, Dennis Fentonwrote: >> After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for >> MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with. >> I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot >> floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external >> SCSI CD drive. >> To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a >> 1.44 floppy. > The ISO image isn't *intended* to fit on a floppy. It expects to be > installed on a CDROM. > > If you have a machine that *can't* boot form CD and must boot from > floppy, there's a boot floppy zip file you can extract to floppy to > boot from. That assumes the rest of the distribution will be on a CD > you can access from FreeDOS once you've booted from the floppy. See > the Boot Floppy option under "How to install FreeDOS 1.2 »" > > See http://www.freedos.org/download/ > >> This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an >> organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it >> wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image? >> Do you have a fix for this? > The problem is pilot error. Please read the applicable instructions > on the download page. > __ > Dennis -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
Hi, Eric, This reply may be pointless, but I'm sure you understand where I'm coming from. In no way am I pretending that MS-DOS is technically superior or preferred. The weakest claim is only that it is "probably" more compatible (which is unavoidable since it's the original). It is dead and should normally be hard to find, but hey, the OP already had a copy, so On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 4:34 PM, Eric Auerwrote: > >> If you already have the original gold standard of DOSes, i.e. MS-DOS >> (which was widely tested and hugely popular, by far the most >> ubiquitous DOS), then you don't urgently "need" any other DOS >> clone at all all, period. > > Being the most widely used does not equal being the best. > Similarily, FreeDOS gives you a lot of DOS, a lot newer > than the early 1990s Microsoft version, often in a much > smaller package both in terms of disk space and in terms > of the amount of RAM needed. And newer drivers :-) > > On the other hand, all DOS clones have to be extremely > similar to MS DOS when it comes to supporting software > apps for DOS. Because if you first have to port your > XYZ app for Linux to "the cool new OS ABC" which also > behaves a bit like DOS, then most users would simply > use XYZ directly in Linux and not care about DOS. But > as FreeDOS and other clones basically run ALL the good > old software for DOS, clones are clearly attractive. > > A reason to use FreeDOS in spite of already having MS DOS: > > Your new hardware has bad support from MS DOS and you want > to have more RAM free and a few new drivers. Of course you > are free to achieve that by MIXING the best files from both > versions of DOS, as you already owned MS DOS in my example. I'm not a salesman. The OP already had MS-DOS, so it's very hard to sell somebody a clone of what they already have. I don't even use or recommend MS-DOS (or DR-DOS) anymore, only FreeDOS. For sure, FreeDOS is "free"-r, much easier to use, study, modify, and redistribute. Yes, you can still barely find MS-DOS somewhere else (legally), but it's harder than it used to be. Userland is not a "unique" advantage because most DOS developers these days share tools and drivers. The kernel itself just doesn't have all the bang/whiz/pop/flash new-fangled cpu features that users blindly expect when a "new" version of "DOS" is released in 2017. Again, I'm not a salesman, nor a kernel dev, so as an end user I have a hard time pretending that FreeDOS is a bajillion times more advanced in the kernel than the other DOSes. AFAIK, it does the same boring ol' stuff and nothing extra fancy, providing no extra APIs, utilizing no advanced cpu features. I just can't brag too hard when the improvements are minor. Most of the enhancements over MS-DOS (etc) are banal: freedom, better tools, community, etc. So, again, FreeDOS works great, but it's a hard sell to someone else, especially if they already have the original. -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
You might have trouble with sound drivers. MS dos 7.1 wanted me to use windows to install one so that I could enjoy Windows but no windows to use. FREEDOS doesn't care. DS On Sun, 26 Mar 2017 13:58:08 -0500 Dennis Fentonwrites: > Thanks to everyone on the FreeDOS list who tried to help me. I > learned > a few things. After careful consideration I decided to go in a > different direction. I installed MS-DOS 7.10. It is now running > smoothly on my 486 laptop. I had to set up the SCSI drives by > writing > a few lines into autoexec.bat and one into config.sys. > Happy computing. > > On 25/03/2017, Rugxulo wrote: > > Hi, > > > > On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Eric Auer > wrote: > >> > >> I disagree about FreeDOS being "not ready yet" or "no advantage > to MS > >> DOS". > > > > If you already have the original gold standard of DOSes, i.e. > MS-DOS > > (which was widely tested and hugely popular, by far the most > > ubiquitous DOS), then you don't urgently "need" any other DOS > clone at > > all, period. > > > > Various DOS clones exist, and they all have minor advantages, but > > overall they work the same (no extra APIs offered, no utilizing > newer > > advanced cpu features). For common DOS software (and loadable > > drivers), they all behave effectively the same (more or less) on > any > > decent DOS kernel. > > > > Reasons not to use MS-DOS? It's unsupported and proprietary and > harder to > > find. > > Reasons not to use FreeDOS? You just want to run the exact same > > software that already runs perfectly on your current MS-DOS > install. > > > > Heck, apparently there are still people using TAWK, which is > > (apparently) proprietary and long dead. One guy was complaining > that > > GAWK (aka, GPL) still doesn't 100% equal TAWK features despite > being > > 20 years newer. Sound familiar? Old habits die hard. > > > > (In hindsight, it's best to not write proprietary, non-standard, > > unportable software at all, if you have a choice. Although nothing > > lasts forever, not even standards, it does certainly help to try > to be > > portable/cross-platform from the start.) > > > > > - - > > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > > ___ > > Freedos-user mailing list > > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > > > > - - > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > ** >From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052 *** Police Urge Americans to Carry This With Them at All Times The Observer http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/58d91a79e59d71a797f86st03duc -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
Hi Rugxulo, > If you already have the original gold standard of DOSes, i.e. MS-DOS > (which was widely tested and hugely popular, by far the most > ubiquitous DOS), then you don't urgently "need" any other DOS > clone at all all, period. Being the most widely used does not equal being the best. For example Linux is great for certain use cases and this is not changed by "but millions already have Windows" as an argument to use Windows instead for those use cases... Similarily, FreeDOS gives you a lot of DOS, a lot newer than the early 1990s Microsoft version, often in a much smaller package both in terms of disk space and in terms of the amount of RAM needed. And newer drivers :-) On the other hand, all DOS clones have to be extremely similar to MS DOS when it comes to supporting software apps for DOS. Because if you first have to port your XYZ app for Linux to "the cool new OS ABC" which also behaves a bit like DOS, then most users would simply use XYZ directly in Linux and not care about DOS. But as FreeDOS and other clones basically run ALL the good old software for DOS, clones are clearly attractive. Note that if you want to use more than 1 core of your CPU or more than 4 GB of RAM, then DOS is not for you. A multi tasking 64 bit OS will make you more happy then and nobody complains about a few GB of disk space there. A reason to use FreeDOS in spite of already having MS DOS: Your new hardware has bad support from MS DOS and you want to have more RAM free and a few new drivers. Of course you are free to achieve that by MIXING the best files from both versions of DOS, as you already owned MS DOS in my example. Cheers, Eric -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
Hi, On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Eric Auerwrote: > > I disagree about FreeDOS being "not ready yet" or "no advantage to MS DOS". If you already have the original gold standard of DOSes, i.e. MS-DOS (which was widely tested and hugely popular, by far the most ubiquitous DOS), then you don't urgently "need" any other DOS clone at all, period. Various DOS clones exist, and they all have minor advantages, but overall they work the same (no extra APIs offered, no utilizing newer advanced cpu features). For common DOS software (and loadable drivers), they all behave effectively the same (more or less) on any decent DOS kernel. Reasons not to use MS-DOS? It's unsupported and proprietary and harder to find. Reasons not to use FreeDOS? You just want to run the exact same software that already runs perfectly on your current MS-DOS install. Heck, apparently there are still people using TAWK, which is (apparently) proprietary and long dead. One guy was complaining that GAWK (aka, GPL) still doesn't 100% equal TAWK features despite being 20 years newer. Sound familiar? Old habits die hard. (In hindsight, it's best to not write proprietary, non-standard, unportable software at all, if you have a choice. Although nothing lasts forever, not even standards, it does certainly help to try to be portable/cross-platform from the start.) -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
If you already have Windows 98 SE, you have DOS 7.1. I prefer it to FreeDOS because of better documentation. Ira irami...@gmail.com 805-212-0588 On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks Eric. > > Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network. > Original Message > From: Eric Auer > Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 7:21 PM > To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. > Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk > > > A backup on the same disk but different partitions > does not really help you if things go really wrong, > but as you say, data loss would be no real problem > for you... You should probably backup at least the > DOS SCSI drivers though ;-) Jerome also mentioned > the drivers as being the most backup worthy files. > > As Jerome wrote, you can simply install to C:\FDOS > and leave most of the rest of C: and D: unharmed. > Outside the FDOS directory, only the config files > (autoexec / config / fdconfig / similar) and boot > files (kernel, maybe command) in the root directory > of C:\ and the boot sector should get overwritten, > not much else to worry about UNLESS you format or > fdisk... In which case everything would be gone. > > As you already have some DOS (here: MS DOS) on the > PC, I agree with Jerome that "not booted update" is > worth a trying for a "smoother" change to FreeDOS. > > I disagree about FreeDOS being "not ready yet" or > "no advantage to MS DOS". Examples of advantages: > > Several drivers are smaller in RAM compared to MS > DOS versions, FreeDOS supports FAT32 and LBA :-) > > In particular, this means that you can (if your > BIOS is not too old) harddisks up to 2 TB size > and partitions of many GB size without problems. > > Regards, Eric > > > My internal hard drive is partitioned into C and D drives. The entire > > contents of the C:\DOS directory is backed up on drive D. I also have > > an MS-DOS boot disk that includes my current autoexec.bat and > > config.sys files. > > > > -- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > > > -- > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
A backup on the same disk but different partitions does not really help you if things go really wrong, but as you say, data loss would be no real problem for you... You should probably backup at least the DOS SCSI drivers though ;-) Jerome also mentioned the drivers as being the most backup worthy files. As Jerome wrote, you can simply install to C:\FDOS and leave most of the rest of C: and D: unharmed. Outside the FDOS directory, only the config files (autoexec / config / fdconfig / similar) and boot files (kernel, maybe command) in the root directory of C:\ and the boot sector should get overwritten, not much else to worry about UNLESS you format or fdisk... In which case everything would be gone. As you already have some DOS (here: MS DOS) on the PC, I agree with Jerome that "not booted update" is worth a trying for a "smoother" change to FreeDOS. I disagree about FreeDOS being "not ready yet" or "no advantage to MS DOS". Examples of advantages: Several drivers are smaller in RAM compared to MS DOS versions, FreeDOS supports FAT32 and LBA :-) In particular, this means that you can (if your BIOS is not too old) harddisks up to 2 TB size and partitions of many GB size without problems. Regards, Eric > My internal hard drive is partitioned into C and D drives. The entire > contents of the C:\DOS directory is backed up on drive D. I also have > an MS-DOS boot disk that includes my current autoexec.bat and > config.sys files. -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
Don't need a network card with a dial-up modem. As for packet driver, Arachne comes with some. I am definately willing to try other browsers. Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network. Original Message From: Rugxulo Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 6:44 PM To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk Hi, On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 6:36 PM, Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> wrote: > I want the fat32 in order to see drives and files on my win98 computer if I > use Laplink. Okay, but that's only the kernel (and boot sector to load it), not all of the other files. Any single floppy could handle that minimal "install" for you. > I was also hoping FreeDOS will do a better job of getting Arachne online. It > reports > low memory with MS-DOS. I have run memmaker several times. Unlikely to help much by itself, but who knows. Not to discourage use of Arachne by any means, but there are other web browsers as well, e.g. Links2 (which is 386+ DPMI, thus less stingy about memory): http://links.twibright.com/download/binaries/dos/ (grab links-2.14.exe and links.crt) But, again, that assumes a working packet driver and supported network card. So you do actually have one?? -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
Also, I'm curious. The 486 is not my main computer. It is a hobby project. While I would be disappointed is anything was lost in the transition, it wouldn't be the end of the world. I'm taking a break now. Please don't be offended if you post something and I don't respond immediately. I will let you all know how this works out. Dennis Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network. Original Message From: Rugxulo Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 6:17 PM To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk Hi, On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> wrote: > > The 486 that I plan to use FreeDOS on currently has MS-DOS 6.22 as its only > OS. > My plan is to completely replace it but keep all my installed programs. The > SCSI > drivers are all in C:\SCSI and I notice FreeDOS has its own equivalent of > MSCDEX.EXE. If you have anything more important than games (and/or don't have the original installation media for them and/or the disks for the version of MS-DOS you're using), then maybe you shouldn't quite install FreeDOS "just yet"! Especially any personal files (personal docs, sources, game saves, registration keys), make sure to back those up several times! It might be safer to use a separate hard drive entirely for FreeDOS so that you don't risk deleting anything important. You never did mention if you have a working packet driver (I'll assume not), but it might make backing up files a lot easier. If you just want to play around with FreeDOS, just use a bootable floppy (as suggested), which will minimally let you use the FD kernel with all of your pre-existing utils. Honestly, if you already have MS-DOS, then you probably aren't the target audience for FreeDOS at all. (Not to be pessimistic, but FreeDOS doesn't normally offer much more, by itself, over MS-DOS. Although it does support FAT32, unlike MS-DOS v6 [FAT12/16 only], which can be more efficient for large drives.) You don't technically "need" two different kernels (but maybe you want to compare). In that case, MetaKern may be of interest to you: http://freedos.gds.tuwien.ac.at/freedos/news/technote/184.html https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/util/boot/metakern/ -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
On 3/24/2017 4:36 PM, Dennis Fenton wrote: > I want the fat32 in order to see drives and files on my win98 computer if I > use Laplink. I was also hoping FreeDOS will do a better job of getting > Arachne online. It reports low memory with MS-DOS. I have run memmaker > several times. Using FAT32 does not help you in seeing drives and files on another computer, either via laplink or by other means. This is either handled by the program itself (as in the case of Laplink) or it is matter of the network redirector being used... As for being low on memory, the main source of your problems are likely being the use of the SCSI/ASPI drivers as you mentioned in a previous post. Those things are/were huge in terms of DOS in general. FreeDOS won't give you here much of an advantage over any other DOS... Ralf --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
I want the fat32 in order to see drives and files on my win98 computer if I use Laplink. I was also hoping FreeDOS will do a better job of getting Arachne online. It reports low memory with MS-DOS. I have run memmaker several times. Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network. Original Message From: Rugxulo Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 6:17 PM To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk Hi, On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> wrote: > > The 486 that I plan to use FreeDOS on currently has MS-DOS 6.22 as its only > OS. > My plan is to completely replace it but keep all my installed programs. The > SCSI > drivers are all in C:\SCSI and I notice FreeDOS has its own equivalent of > MSCDEX.EXE. If you have anything more important than games (and/or don't have the original installation media for them and/or the disks for the version of MS-DOS you're using), then maybe you shouldn't quite install FreeDOS "just yet"! Especially any personal files (personal docs, sources, game saves, registration keys), make sure to back those up several times! It might be safer to use a separate hard drive entirely for FreeDOS so that you don't risk deleting anything important. You never did mention if you have a working packet driver (I'll assume not), but it might make backing up files a lot easier. If you just want to play around with FreeDOS, just use a bootable floppy (as suggested), which will minimally let you use the FD kernel with all of your pre-existing utils. Honestly, if you already have MS-DOS, then you probably aren't the target audience for FreeDOS at all. (Not to be pessimistic, but FreeDOS doesn't normally offer much more, by itself, over MS-DOS. Although it does support FAT32, unlike MS-DOS v6 [FAT12/16 only], which can be more efficient for large drives.) You don't technically "need" two different kernels (but maybe you want to compare). In that case, MetaKern may be of interest to you: http://freedos.gds.tuwien.ac.at/freedos/news/technote/184.html https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/util/boot/metakern/ -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
Hi, On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Dennis Fentonwrote: > > The 486 that I plan to use FreeDOS on currently has MS-DOS 6.22 as its only > OS. > My plan is to completely replace it but keep all my installed programs. The > SCSI > drivers are all in C:\SCSI and I notice FreeDOS has its own equivalent of > MSCDEX.EXE. If you have anything more important than games (and/or don't have the original installation media for them and/or the disks for the version of MS-DOS you're using), then maybe you shouldn't quite install FreeDOS "just yet"! Especially any personal files (personal docs, sources, game saves, registration keys), make sure to back those up several times! It might be safer to use a separate hard drive entirely for FreeDOS so that you don't risk deleting anything important. You never did mention if you have a working packet driver (I'll assume not), but it might make backing up files a lot easier. If you just want to play around with FreeDOS, just use a bootable floppy (as suggested), which will minimally let you use the FD kernel with all of your pre-existing utils. Honestly, if you already have MS-DOS, then you probably aren't the target audience for FreeDOS at all. (Not to be pessimistic, but FreeDOS doesn't normally offer much more, by itself, over MS-DOS. Although it does support FAT32, unlike MS-DOS v6 [FAT12/16 only], which can be more efficient for large drives.) You don't technically "need" two different kernels (but maybe you want to compare). In that case, MetaKern may be of interest to you: http://freedos.gds.tuwien.ac.at/freedos/news/technote/184.html https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/util/boot/metakern/ -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
My internal hard drive is partitioned into C and D drives. The entire contents of the C:\DOS directory is backed up on drive D. I also have an MS-DOS boot disk that includes my current autoexec.bat and config.sys files. Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network. Original Message From: Jerome Shidel Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 6:05 PM To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk > On Mar 24, 2017, at 6:40 PM, Eric Auer <e.a...@jpberlin.de> wrote: > > > Hi Dennis, > >> The 486 that I plan to use FreeDOS on currently has MS-DOS 6.22 as >> its only OS. My plan is to completely replace it but keep all my >> installed programs. The SCSI drivers are all in C:\SCSI and I notice >> FreeDOS has its own equivalent of MSCDEX.EXE. > > Well in that case, you can simply use the existing DOS SCSI > and CDROM drivers :-) You can even keep MSCDEX until you get > used to SHSUCDX later... And you can use your existing lines > from autoexec and config for the autoexec and (fd-) config > of FreeDOS. Only if you were using the MS DOS config sys > MENU system, you will have to change some things - syntax > for menus works in a different way in FreeDOS. I'd advise just plugging in his needed lines into the new configuration files. But, what ever is easiest. > > Maybe Jerome and Rugxulo can give some hints about how to > tell the installer to only install FreeDOS to the existing > C: drive of your MS DOS PC without damaging other programs If his old MS-DOS install is not under the FDOS\ directory (unless changed in advanced mode), it will just ignore it. That goes for other directories as well. If the existing target directory (Like FDOS\) for the OS already exists, it will be backed up and the cleaned out. > Even then, it is always very good to have a backup of all > files before updating. So if anything goes wrong, you can > use the backups to repair the damage :-) Yes, always backup! Jerome -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
> On Mar 24, 2017, at 6:40 PM, Eric Auerwrote: > > > Hi Dennis, > >> The 486 that I plan to use FreeDOS on currently has MS-DOS 6.22 as >> its only OS. My plan is to completely replace it but keep all my >> installed programs. The SCSI drivers are all in C:\SCSI and I notice >> FreeDOS has its own equivalent of MSCDEX.EXE. > > Well in that case, you can simply use the existing DOS SCSI > and CDROM drivers :-) You can even keep MSCDEX until you get > used to SHSUCDX later... And you can use your existing lines > from autoexec and config for the autoexec and (fd-) config > of FreeDOS. Only if you were using the MS DOS config sys > MENU system, you will have to change some things - syntax > for menus works in a different way in FreeDOS. I'd advise just plugging in his needed lines into the new configuration files. But, what ever is easiest. > > Maybe Jerome and Rugxulo can give some hints about how to > tell the installer to only install FreeDOS to the existing > C: drive of your MS DOS PC without damaging other programs If his old MS-DOS install is not under the FDOS\ directory (unless changed in advanced mode), it will just ignore it. That goes for other directories as well. If the existing target directory (Like FDOS\) for the OS already exists, it will be backed up and the cleaned out. > Even then, it is always very good to have a backup of all > files before updating. So if anything goes wrong, you can > use the backups to repair the damage :-) Yes, always backup! Jerome -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
Check! Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network. Original Message From: Eric Auer Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 5:41 PM To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk Hi Dennis, > The 486 that I plan to use FreeDOS on currently has MS-DOS 6.22 as > its only OS. My plan is to completely replace it but keep all my > installed programs. The SCSI drivers are all in C:\SCSI and I notice > FreeDOS has its own equivalent of MSCDEX.EXE. Well in that case, you can simply use the existing DOS SCSI and CDROM drivers :-) You can even keep MSCDEX until you get used to SHSUCDX later... And you can use your existing lines from autoexec and config for the autoexec and (fd-) config of FreeDOS. Only if you were using the MS DOS config sys MENU system, you will have to change some things - syntax for menus works in a different way in FreeDOS. Maybe Jerome and Rugxulo can give some hints about how to tell the installer to only install FreeDOS to the existing C: drive of your MS DOS PC without damaging other programs. Even then, it is always very good to have a backup of all files before updating. So if anything goes wrong, you can use the backups to repair the damage :-) Regards, Eric -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
Hi Dennis, > The 486 that I plan to use FreeDOS on currently has MS-DOS 6.22 as > its only OS. My plan is to completely replace it but keep all my > installed programs. The SCSI drivers are all in C:\SCSI and I notice > FreeDOS has its own equivalent of MSCDEX.EXE. Well in that case, you can simply use the existing DOS SCSI and CDROM drivers :-) You can even keep MSCDEX until you get used to SHSUCDX later... And you can use your existing lines from autoexec and config for the autoexec and (fd-) config of FreeDOS. Only if you were using the MS DOS config sys MENU system, you will have to change some things - syntax for menus works in a different way in FreeDOS. Maybe Jerome and Rugxulo can give some hints about how to tell the installer to only install FreeDOS to the existing C: drive of your MS DOS PC without damaging other programs. Even then, it is always very good to have a backup of all files before updating. So if anything goes wrong, you can use the backups to repair the damage :-) Regards, Eric -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
Hi Dennis, > I downloaded and installed WinImage 9.0 on my win98 computer. It has a > floppy drive. I successfully wrote the img file to a floppy. > Another issue occurred to me. My cd-rom drive is a SCSI external type. That might be a problem, depending on your SCSI controller and whether it has good BIOS support etc etc. I assume you refer to the CD-ROM of the PC where you want to install DOS? By the way, does that PC also have another operating system? Do you want to replace that by DOS? Or install both side by side as "dual boot"? The latter requires special steps, the former can mean that current disk contents get overwritten. > The new boot floppy has an fdconfig.sys and an autoexec.bat file. I'm > thinking > I need to add lines to both to recognize the SCSI drive when it boots. If you have good DOS drivers for the drive and know how to configure them, then you can do that. If you plan to install DOS on a computer where you already have or can install some operating system with easy internet, then I would recommend another method: Copy the ISO file of FreeDOS to a FAT drive on the PC where you want to install DOS and then "mount" it as if it would be the CD of FreeDOS :-) If the boot floppy has no automatic support for that, then I am sure that some extra explanation of this trick could be given by Rugxulo or Jerome, with examples of what to put where in fdconfig and autoexec on the boot floppy :-) The idea is that you need no hardware specific drivers at all to open the ISO if you already have it on the future DOS PC, so you avoid all worries about SCSI and CDROM drivers then. You still do need that special ISO driver, of course, but as that is not specific to certain hardware, it is easy to use. Cheers, Eric -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
I downloaded and installed WinImage 9.0 on my win98 computer. It has a floppy drive. I successfully wrote the img file to a floppy.Another issue occurred to me. My cd-rom drive is a SCSI external type.The new boot floppy has an fdconfig.sys and an autoexec.bat file. I'm thinking I need to add lines to both to recognize the SCSI drive when it boots.Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network.From: Ralf QuintSent: Friday, March 24, 2017 12:15 PMTo: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.netReply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk On 3/24/2017 5:42 AM, Dennis Fenton wrote: I was just trying to simply copy it. I get an insufficient space message. That is to be expected. A disk image is exactly that, a sector by sector image of EVERY sector on the disk. That includes those of the boot sector (includes the BPB-BIOS Paramter Block), 14 sectors for the root directory and 18 sectors for the two copies of FAT12. Those 33 sectors leave on a formatted 1.44MB floppy disk 2847 sectors (out of 2880 sectors of an unformatted disk). To write a floppy disk IMAGE to a floppy, you need a program that writes that image SECTOR FOR SECTOR back to the disk, not as a single file as you have tried. On Unix/Linux systems, the easiest way to achive that is to use the "dd" command or WinRaWrite on a Windows system (or rawrite if you have another DOS only system). I personally used for probably more than two decades by now a Shareware program called WinImage, which also does works nicely to create quickly images from floppy disks or CD-ROMs... Ralf Virus-free. www.avast.com -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
On 3/23/2017 9:47 PM, Gregg Eshelman wrote: It is possible to format a floppy a bit over size. Most drives will accommodate 2 to 4 extra tracks. Depending on the drive and the controller it's possible to alter the number of sectors per track, but all tracks must have the same number of sectors. Typically, altering the number of sectors renders the format non-bootable. Schenk & Horn CopyStar is one such program. It's old, originally from 1994, but it's known to work on Windows 2000, Server 2003 and older. I've not tried it on XP and later. Probably not compatible with 64 bit Windows. http://www.programfiles.com/Default.asp?LinkId=13681 Microsoft used an over-capacity format they called DMF. For programs (like Windows 95) where the first disk had to be bootable it was standard 1.44M. IBM used a different over-capacity format for OS/2's install disks, but nothing included with OS/2 could write data to the disks, despite the inclusion of a utility to create blank disks with that format. (The largest all floppy install I ever did was OS/2 Warp 3.0, followed by a couple of large updates.) Sorry, but all that is irrelevant to the problem at hand. He tried to copy an image file, that includes the file system as a single file onto a floppy disk that already contained a file system. He needed to use a program that write that image file sector by sector onto a floppy disk. And that way it will fit perfectly, no overformatting needed... If only the entire OEM computer industry had wholeheartedly adopted the 2.88M floppy, instead of only IBM and Compaq sorta halfway supporting it. "Hey look! We're making 2.88M floppy drives standard on ALL our computers! How about YOU, Hewlett Packard, Packard Bell, Gateway 2000... *Apple*? You wanna fall behind us? Keep using that obsolete 1.44M!" The problem with the general adaptation of 2.88MB floppy disks was that those drives did have compatibility issues with reliably reading and more so, WRITING 1.44MB disks... Ralf --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
ThanksSent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network.From: Ralf QuintSent: Friday, March 24, 2017 12:15 PMTo: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.netReply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk On 3/24/2017 5:42 AM, Dennis Fenton wrote: I was just trying to simply copy it. I get an insufficient space message. That is to be expected. A disk image is exactly that, a sector by sector image of EVERY sector on the disk. That includes those of the boot sector (includes the BPB-BIOS Paramter Block), 14 sectors for the root directory and 18 sectors for the two copies of FAT12. Those 33 sectors leave on a formatted 1.44MB floppy disk 2847 sectors (out of 2880 sectors of an unformatted disk). To write a floppy disk IMAGE to a floppy, you need a program that writes that image SECTOR FOR SECTOR back to the disk, not as a single file as you have tried. On Unix/Linux systems, the easiest way to achive that is to use the "dd" command or WinRaWrite on a Windows system (or rawrite if you have another DOS only system). I personally used for probably more than two decades by now a Shareware program called WinImage, which also does works nicely to create quickly images from floppy disks or CD-ROMs... Ralf Virus-free. www.avast.com -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
On 3/24/2017 5:42 AM, Dennis Fenton wrote: I was just trying to simply copy it. I get an insufficient space message. That is to be expected. A disk image is exactly that, a sector by sector image of EVERY sector on the disk. That includes those of the boot sector (includes the BPB-BIOS Paramter Block), 14 sectors for the root directory and 18 sectors for the two copies of FAT12. Those 33 sectors leave on a formatted 1.44MB floppy disk 2847 sectors (out of 2880 sectors of an unformatted disk). To write a floppy disk IMAGE to a floppy, you need a program that writes that image SECTOR FOR SECTOR back to the disk, not as a single file as you have tried. On Unix/Linux systems, the easiest way to achive that is to use the "dd" command or WinRaWrite on a Windows system (or rawrite if you have another DOS only system). I personally used for probably more than two decades by now a Shareware program called WinImage, which also does works nicely to create quickly images from floppy disks or CD-ROMs... Ralf --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
Hi Felix and Dennis, > I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip > "boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, > 2847 > 512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded > image > would not fit here either. That is a misunderstanding. The FLOPPY really is 80 tracks, 2 sides, 18 sectors per track, 512 bytes per sector: 1474560 bytes is correct. However, if you want to put a FILE on a floppy, then the maximum size for the FILE is less, because some space is used by the FAT filesystem. So 1457664 is the size left for you to put files on. This is why the boot floppy disk image has to be copied with some special tools (Linux: dd, DOS: diskcopy, Windows: ..., Mac: ...) which copy contents, filesystem, boot sector etc. all at once. This also is why you do not see files IN that single image file in FD12FLOPPY.zip: You would have to "open" the file as a FAT filesystem to see the files that you will later see on your disk after putting the diskimage as a whole on the floppy. If we would offer the files separately in the ZIP, you would be able to see and edit them at once, which is good, BUT you would need a separate tool to install a boot sector to make it bootable, which is inconvenient, because SYS is only available for DOS and similar tools for other OS (like makebootfat or sys-freedos.pl for Linux) would need specific command line options to produce optimized DOS boot sectors. Regards, Eric -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
Thanks. I'll try. Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network. Original Message From: Jerome Shidel Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 7:17 AM To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk > On Mar 23, 2017, at 11:56 PM, Felix Miata <mrma...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip > "boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, > 2847 > 512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded > image > would not fit here either. I see where the confusion may be coming from. After formatting a floppy image using FreeDOS, it states: 1,474,560 bytes total disk space (disk size) 1,456,664 bytes available on disk (free clusters) It would appear that the number 1457664 is the usable empty free space on the disk once it has been low level formatted and then formatted with the standard DOS file system. So, you probably do have a correct sized floppy diskette. However, you will need to use the appropriate tool to place the floppy image file onto the diskette. Other messages in this thread mention programs like rawrite & dd. These all work very well for this task. Jerome -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
Thanks. I'll try diskcopy. Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network. Original Message From: Rugxulo Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 12:49 AM To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk Hi, On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:56 PM, Felix Miata <mrma...@earthlink.net> wrote: > > I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip > "boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, > 2847 > 512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded > image > would not fit here either. I downloaded the above (FD12FLOPPY.zip) and two of my own images (BARE_DOS and MetaDOS). All of them have the same size (1474560). A simple "file *.img" tells me that they all have 2880 sectors. I've written a few real floppies in recent years with some of these and had no obvious problems. The obvious tool to use, among a million others variations, would be DISKCOPY: http://help.fdos.org/en/hhstndrd/base/diskcopy.htm (Here's some alternatives.) https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/message/35297505/ > -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant > words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) So, just for completeness, (direct or indirect) links to a bunch of (Free)DOS floppy images are found below here: https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/message/35557316/ Keep in mind that a 1.44 MB floppy doesn't hold many files (e.g. a full FD "BASE" won't fit) and isn't actively used by most users anymore (even in FreeDOS circles). Heck, floppies aren't even made anymore, and most modern x86 machines lack the drives (although you can probably still buy a USB floppy drive like I did). Thus it's somewhat ignored in favor of newer, more popular media. So there is no "full" install via floppy, thus you must figure things out manually (for the most part). Networking (using a working packet driver) helps tremendously. Otherwise you're stuck with copying manually (sneakernet). -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
I was just trying to simply copy it. I get an insufficient space message. Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network.From: perditi...@gmail.comSent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 11:15 PMTo: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.netReply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS.Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a diskOn Mar 23, 2017 9:32 PM, "Dennis Fenton" <dwf...@gmail.com> wrote:After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for... To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a 1.44 floppyWhat program are you using to write the image to your floppy? Boot images cannot be copied using copy, they must be written with a program like rawwrite or dd. Does it give an explicit error code or just a message about insufficient space?Thank you,Jeremy -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
Exactly Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network. Original Message From: Felix Miata Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 10:56 PM To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip "boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, 2847 512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded image would not fit here either. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
> On Mar 23, 2017, at 11:56 PM, Felix Miatawrote: > > I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip > "boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, > 2847 > 512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded > image > would not fit here either. I see where the confusion may be coming from. After formatting a floppy image using FreeDOS, it states: 1,474,560 bytes total disk space (disk size) 1,456,664 bytes available on disk (free clusters) It would appear that the number 1457664 is the usable empty free space on the disk once it has been low level formatted and then formatted with the standard DOS file system. So, you probably do have a correct sized floppy diskette. However, you will need to use the appropriate tool to place the floppy image file onto the diskette. Other messages in this thread mention programs like rawrite & dd. These all work very well for this task. Jerome -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
A 1.44MB 3.5” DS HD floppy disk is 1,474,560 bytes when formatted. (2MB unformatted) It used 512 byte sectors, 18 sectors per track, 80 tracks per side and is/was a two sided media. 512 * 18 * 80 * 2 = 1474560 / 1024 = 1.44MB floppy. More information on this can be found at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_floppy_disk_formats Also, on Mac, Unix and Linux dd will write the disk image fine with a command like: sudo dd if=FD12FLOPPY.img of=/dev/fd0 (or similar) As a side note, PC-DOS 7 used oddly formatted diskettes for its install media. These provided a capacity lager than 1.44MB on its 3.5” install media. This was good to reduce the number of diskettes required. But, it made it more difficult to clone the original floppy disks for backup purposes. Also, it was not 100% compatible with all floppy drives and could cause other headaches as well. Jerome -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
Hi, On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 10:56 PM, Felix Miatawrote: > > I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip > "boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, > 2847 > 512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded > image > would not fit here either. I downloaded the above (FD12FLOPPY.zip) and two of my own images (BARE_DOS and MetaDOS). All of them have the same size (1474560). A simple "file *.img" tells me that they all have 2880 sectors. I've written a few real floppies in recent years with some of these and had no obvious problems. The obvious tool to use, among a million others variations, would be DISKCOPY: http://help.fdos.org/en/hhstndrd/base/diskcopy.htm (Here's some alternatives.) https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/message/35297505/ > -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant > words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) So, just for completeness, (direct or indirect) links to a bunch of (Free)DOS floppy images are found below here: https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/message/35557316/ Keep in mind that a 1.44 MB floppy doesn't hold many files (e.g. a full FD "BASE" won't fit) and isn't actively used by most users anymore (even in FreeDOS circles). Heck, floppies aren't even made anymore, and most modern x86 machines lack the drives (although you can probably still buy a USB floppy drive like I did). Thus it's somewhat ignored in favor of newer, more popular media. So there is no "full" install via floppy, thus you must figure things out manually (for the most part). Networking (using a working packet driver) helps tremendously. Otherwise you're stuck with copying manually (sneakernet). -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
It is possible to format a floppy a bit over size. Most drives will accommodate 2 to 4 extra tracks. Depending on the drive and the controller it's possible to alter the number of sectors per track, but all tracks must have the same number of sectors. Typically, altering the number of sectors renders the format non-bootable. Schenk & Horn CopyStar is one such program. It's old, originally from 1994, but it's known to work on Windows 2000, Server 2003 and older. I've not tried it on XP and later. Probably not compatible with 64 bit Windows. http://www.programfiles.com/Default.asp?LinkId=13681 Microsoft used an over-capacity format they called DMF. For programs (like Windows 95) where the first disk had to be bootable it was standard 1.44M. IBM used a different over-capacity format for OS/2's install disks, but nothing included with OS/2 could write data to the disks, despite the inclusion of a utility to create blank disks with that format. (The largest all floppy install I ever did was OS/2 Warp 3.0, followed by a couple of large updates.) If only the entire OEM computer industry had wholeheartedly adopted the 2.88M floppy, instead of only IBM and Compaq sorta halfway supporting it. "Hey look! We're making 2.88M floppy drives standard on ALL our computers! How about YOU, Hewlett Packard, Packard Bell, Gateway 2000... *Apple*? You wanna fall behind us? Keep using that obsolete 1.44M!" From: Felix Miata <mrma...@earthlink.net> To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip "boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, 2847 512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded image would not fit here either. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
On Mar 23, 2017 9:32 PM, "Dennis Fenton"wrote: After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for ... To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a 1.44 floppy. ... What program are you using to write the image to your floppy? Boot images cannot be copied using copy, they must be written with a program like rawwrite or dd. Does it give an explicit error code or just a message about insufficient space? Thank you, Jeremy -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
I just looked inside http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip "boot floppy", and a 3.5" 1.44M floppy. My floppy has 1457664 total bytes, 2847 512 byte sectors. The image downloaded is 1474560 bytes, so the downloaded image would not fit here either. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a dis
Yes that is the file. I also found it on the FreeDOS download page. I'm not familiar with grub4dos. I'll look into it. Dennis Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network. Original Message From: Thomas Mueller Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 10:19 PM To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a dis from Dennis Fenton: > After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for > MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with. > I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot > floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external > SCSI CD drive. > To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a > 1.44 floppy. > This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an > organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it > wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image? > Do you have a fix for this? Is this the floppy image? http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip I just found it on FreeDOS download page. But if too big to fit on 1.44 floppy, could you boot the image with grub4dos (latest and final version is 0.4.4)? https://sourceforge.net/projects/grub4dos/ I have booted "floppy" images far too big to fit on actual floppy. Otherwise, you could possibly use Syslinux (latest version 6.03) with memdisk, or possibly Grub2. Tom -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
No bad sectors. I tried two different freshly formatted disks and ran scandisk on them just to be sure. Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network. Original Message From: Felix Miata Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 10:30 PM To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk Dennis Fenton composed on 2017-03-23 20:32 (UTC-0500): > After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for > MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with. > I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot > floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external > SCSI CD drive. > To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a > 1.44 floppy. How much "too big"? Is it because your floppy has bad sectors. Floppies without bad sectors are rather uncommon around here. For this reason I try to avoid image writes, which demand all sectors in the media's spec be usable, and a format that worked once may well be that last the media will accept without error. > This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an > organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it > wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image? > Do you have a fix for this?-- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
Dennis Fenton composed on 2017-03-23 20:32 (UTC-0500): > After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for > MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with. > I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot > floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external > SCSI CD drive. > To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a > 1.44 floppy. How much "too big"? Is it because your floppy has bad sectors. Floppies without bad sectors are rather uncommon around here. For this reason I try to avoid image writes, which demand all sectors in the media's spec be usable, and a format that worked once may well be that last the media will accept without error. > This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an > organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it > wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image? > Do you have a fix for this?-- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a dis
from Dennis Fenton: > After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for > MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with. > I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot > floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external > SCSI CD drive. > To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a > 1.44 floppy. > This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an > organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it > wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image? > Do you have a fix for this? Is this the floppy image? http://www.freedos.org/download/download/FD12FLOPPY.zip I just found it on FreeDOS download page. But if too big to fit on 1.44 floppy, could you boot the image with grub4dos (latest and final version is 0.4.4)? https://sourceforge.net/projects/grub4dos/ I have booted "floppy" images far too big to fit on actual floppy. Otherwise, you could possibly use Syslinux (latest version 6.03) with memdisk, or possibly Grub2. Tom -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
Read what I wrote. I burned the iso to a CD. I also downloaded the floppy img. It doesn't fit! So my first interaction on this forum is from someone who treats me like a dummy. Perhaps another reason to say to Hell with FreeDOS. Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Bell network. Original Message From: dmccunney Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 9:26 PM To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Reply To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 9:32 PM, Dennis Fenton <dwf...@gmail.com> wrote: > After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for > MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with. > I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot > floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external > SCSI CD drive. > To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a > 1.44 floppy. The ISO image isn't *intended* to fit on a floppy. It expects to be installed on a CDROM. If you have a machine that *can't* boot form CD and must boot from floppy, there's a boot floppy zip file you can extract to floppy to boot from. That assumes the rest of the distribution will be on a CD you can access from FreeDOS once you've booted from the floppy. See the Boot Floppy option under "How to install FreeDOS 1.2 »" See http://www.freedos.org/download/ > This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an > organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it > wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image? > Do you have a fix for this? The problem is pilot error. Please read the applicable instructions on the download page. __ Dennis -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] boot floppy disk image too big for a disk
After some research I decided FreeDOS would be a good replacement for MS-DOS 6.22 on an old 486 I'm playing with. I downloaded and burned to CD the iso. I also downloaded the boot floppy disk image because the old 486 will not boot from the external SCSI CD drive. To my dismay I found that the boot disk image is too big to fit on a 1.44 floppy. This makes me question the decision to switch. How in the world can an organization dedicated to promoting this better version of DOS get it wrong when it comes to the size of a disk image? Do you have a fix for this? -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] Boot floppy image files
A floppy image will probably not be used a lot to write it on a real floppy today. I use it as a base to make bootable CDs according to the ElTorito standard. Or use it with Bochs to boot from that image. The files on the floppy image will be enough of the FreeDOS distribution for most embedded applications too. I need just about half of the files on this bare_dos image for my applications to run. Kernel, command.com, himem.sys, keyboard and mouse driver plus editor, thats usually it. Georg -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Boot floppy image files
Hi :-) So, roughly speaking, the main (bootable) disk would be: KERNEL, FreeCOM, XMGR, JEMMEX, UIDE, CTMOUSE, DOSLFN, UNZIP16, 7ZDECODE, EDIT, SYS, FDISK, FORMAT, DISKCOPY, FDXMS286, HDPMI16, CWSDPMI, DOS32A, CWSTUB, XCOPY, SHCDX33F, RDISK, That is at least a reasonable set of drivers :-) I do miss FDAPM in the list (note to Aitor: Please fix the regression bug which breaks idling in EDIT, it worked in 0.7 EDITs) and think I would not need CWSTUB / 7ZDECODE, maybe also not HDPMI / DOS32A, maybe add an UNTGZ or UNTAR/GZIP/BZIP2? I know you and Eric prefer BASE plus some stuff from UTIL It takes only 2 floppies to have ALL base with most extra files. Depending on how much extra, you zip/drop some docs. You could have all base binaries on 1 floppy, but too bare. So as in my old Brezel distro, 3 disks fit base+docs+extra. Regards, Eric -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Boot floppy image files
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 1:11 AM, nospam nos...@georgpotthast.de wrote: Rugxulo has made a single floppy FreeDOS image called BARE_DOS that works well: https://sites.google.com/site/rugxulo/ Georg FYI: I've also mirrored Rugxulo's BARE_DOS to http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/unofficial/bare_dos/ I don't use a floppy drive anymore, so I can't say how well this works. Georg thinks it works well. If others think this is a good FreeDOS floppy mini-distro, I'll link to it from the Downloads page on www.freedos.org. -jh -- How fast is your code? 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Boot floppy image files
On Wed, 2012-09-26 at 17:22 -0500, Jim Hall wrote: The boot image I found didn't have CDROM drivers, but added them. I could just make an ISO of the floppies I ended up making, if you like. Rich... On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 1:11 AM, nospam nos...@georgpotthast.de wrote: Rugxulo has made a single floppy FreeDOS image called BARE_DOS that works well: https://sites.google.com/site/rugxulo/ Georg FYI: I've also mirrored Rugxulo's BARE_DOS to http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/unofficial/bare_dos/ I don't use a floppy drive anymore, so I can't say how well this works. Georg thinks it works well. If others think this is a good FreeDOS floppy mini-distro, I'll link to it from the Downloads page on www.freedos.org. -jh -- How fast is your code? 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- How fast is your code? 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Boot floppy image files
Hi, On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 5:22 PM, Jim Hall jh...@freedos.org wrote: On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 1:11 AM, nospam nos...@georgpotthast.de wrote: Rugxulo has made a single floppy FreeDOS image called BARE_DOS that works well: https://sites.google.com/site/rugxulo/ Georg FYI: I've also mirrored Rugxulo's BARE_DOS to http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/unofficial/bare_dos/ Not sure why, esp. this much later, heh, but it's useful, I suppose. (But like all things, it too could use an update, argh. And sources could've been easier to grab, e.g. bundled, but that was back when I was very disorganized. Yet another distraction. It had a list of URLs, and 99% should be easy to find, but it's less than ideal, I admit.) I don't use a floppy drive anymore, so I can't say how well this works. Georg thinks it works well. I have a USB floppy drive, but I haven't used it lately. I dunno, seems pointless, very few care. Even if I bothered, honestly things change too fast. It's just easier to update things upstream or provide patches and let people roll their own than trying to update binary images ten bazillion times. If others think this is a good FreeDOS floppy mini-distro, I'll link to it from the Downloads page on www.freedos.org. Like I told Eric, the best way would be to make the smallest, most useful boot disk possible with minimal dependencies and hopefully very few things would become outdated. Then make everything else plain .ZIPs that can be unzipped manually if someone wants more than bare minimum. So, roughly speaking, the main (bootable) disk would be: KERNEL, FreeCOM, XMGR, JEMMEX, UIDE, CTMOUSE, DOSLFN, UNZIP16, 7ZDECODE, EDIT, SYS, FDISK, FORMAT, DISKCOPY, FDXMS286, HDPMI16, CWSDPMI, DOS32A, CWSTUB, XCOPY, SHCDX33F, RDISK, I know you and Eric prefer BASE plus some stuff from UTIL, so maybe that's more comprehensive. But I can't remember everything, so I don't know what that would omit or how big it would be. But surely something like KERNEL + COMMAND.COM is way too minimal. It should at least be able to install to hard disk and copy its own disk. It's just honestly a lot to think about. Maybe I'm overthinking it, maybe I need to build QEMU for my Linux machine for testing (or use one of the Win32 alpha builds I've seen online) for easier updating. It's just somewhat exhausting, heh, esp. for someone like me who always starts too many minor projects.;-) -- How fast is your code? 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Boot floppy image files
Rugxulo has made a single floppy FreeDOS image called BARE_DOS that works well: https://sites.google.com/site/rugxulo/ Georg -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] Boot floppy image files
I have looked around the FreeDOS web page and can't find them. I am looking to resurrect an old Zeos Pentium 90 that I have, but it won't boot from CD (its not a BIOS option), and it has no OS on it right now, so I am going to need to boot it from 3.5 floppy. Are there any official IMG files that I can create a boot floppy from? -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Boot floppy image files
On 2012-09-16 15:56 (GMT-0400) Ricardus Vincente composed: I have looked around the FreeDOS web page and can't find them. I am looking to resurrect an old Zeos Pentium 90 that I have, but it won't boot from CD (its not a BIOS option), and it has no OS on it right now, so I am going to need to boot it from 3.5 floppy. Are there any official IMG files that I can create a boot floppy from? The installation CD has a menu option to create a boot floppy that should work from a computer with working OM and floppy devices. The only machine I tried it on (core2duo) gave floppy drive failure messages every time, but succeeded in making a bootable floppy after booting freshly installed FreeDOS 1.1. Maybe it would work for you. -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Boot floppy image files
Hi, On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 2:56 PM, Ricardus Vincente wizardofg...@gmail.com wrote: I have looked around the FreeDOS web page and can't find them. I am looking to resurrect an old Zeos Pentium 90 that I have, but it won't boot from CD (its not a BIOS option), and it has no OS on it right now, so I am going to need to boot it from 3.5 floppy. Are there any official IMG files that I can create a boot floppy from? No official floppy images, no, mostly because nobody uses them anymore. :-( You can probably? use something like Smart Boot Manager to boot from CD, even if your BIOS doesn't support it, but I've not tried. http://btmgr.sourceforge.net/about.html http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.0/pkgs/smbtmgrx.zip Alternately, you can find any old DOS boot floppy, create a very minimal install, then copy the .ISO (split up, of course) on other floppies, then recombine it and mount it via SHSUCDHD. Then you could presumably install from there. Probably easier to grab if you have working network card (NIC) and packet driver (Crynwr). P.S. You could try older floppy images of ODIN (one disk installer) or similar, but these may be somewhat old and outdated (but better than nothing, I suppose): http://odin.fdos.org/ http://www.finnix.org/Balder https://sites.google.com/site/rugxulo/BARE_DOS.ZIP?attredirects=0 -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Boot floppy image files
Hi Ricardus, Am 16.09.2012 21:56, schrieb Ricardus Vincente: I have looked around the FreeDOS web page and can't find them. I am looking to resurrect an old Zeos Pentium 90 that I have, but it won't boot from CD (its not a BIOS option), and it has no OS on it right now, so I am going to need to boot it from 3.5 floppy. Are there any official IMG files that I can create a boot floppy from? While it is not official, I really like the idea of Rugxulo's RUFFIDEA distro. It packs most BASE programs as listed here www.freedos.org/software/?cat=base and dozens of other small, free, often open source, goodies on just three floppy disks. The sources are on separate downloads which are significantly larger, ca 5-8 MB for each floppy image. Not totally up to date, Rugxulo will be happy to post his wish-list, but definitely one of the best things you can do with 3 floppies! :-) Maybe somebody wants to help updating it? https://sites.google.com/site/rugxulo/ The page also has a minimal one floppy boot floppy, in style of the old (former?) fdos.org daily build disks. From my own experience, the OLD FreeDOS 1.0 Brezel floppy distro experiment, two disks is an appropriate amount of space for all BASE binaries, basic docs as the HTMLHELP (which works even while zipped) and some small pile of other goodies. The third disk of Brezel was just a big zip with the doc/ directory wrapped up. As a German-friendly distro, Brezel also contained a German HTMLHELP and FreeCOM and localization things. If you were to omit all text files and maybe drop a few lesser-used apps, you CAN manage with one floppy of running FreeDOS where MS DOS took 3 install disks and probably more when you installed to floppies :-) But as said, between two and four disks of FreeDOS are just so much more fun than doing with just one. Best, Eric :-) -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Boot floppy image files
On Sun, 2012-09-16 at 22:39 +0200, Eric Auer wrote: Thanks! Wow. I imagined that it would be a little easier than this. While I understand that FreeDOS is a modern DOS not meant just for older hardware, I thought that one of the purposes for FreeDOS was to make older hardware relevant again. From the looks of it, I can't see any reasonable way to get FreeDOS working on an old machine that has no OS currently on it. Rich... Hi Ricardus, Am 16.09.2012 21:56, schrieb Ricardus Vincente: I have looked around the FreeDOS web page and can't find them. I am looking to resurrect an old Zeos Pentium 90 that I have, but it won't boot from CD (its not a BIOS option), and it has no OS on it right now, so I am going to need to boot it from 3.5 floppy. Are there any official IMG files that I can create a boot floppy from? While it is not official, I really like the idea of Rugxulo's RUFFIDEA distro. It packs most BASE programs as listed here www.freedos.org/software/?cat=base and dozens of other small, free, often open source, goodies on just three floppy disks. The sources are on separate downloads which are significantly larger, ca 5-8 MB for each floppy image. Not totally up to date, Rugxulo will be happy to post his wish-list, but definitely one of the best things you can do with 3 floppies! :-) Maybe somebody wants to help updating it? https://sites.google.com/site/rugxulo/ The page also has a minimal one floppy boot floppy, in style of the old (former?) fdos.org daily build disks. From my own experience, the OLD FreeDOS 1.0 Brezel floppy distro experiment, two disks is an appropriate amount of space for all BASE binaries, basic docs as the HTMLHELP (which works even while zipped) and some small pile of other goodies. The third disk of Brezel was just a big zip with the doc/ directory wrapped up. As a German-friendly distro, Brezel also contained a German HTMLHELP and FreeCOM and localization things. If you were to omit all text files and maybe drop a few lesser-used apps, you CAN manage with one floppy of running FreeDOS where MS DOS took 3 install disks and probably more when you installed to floppies :-) But as said, between two and four disks of FreeDOS are just so much more fun than doing with just one. Best, Eric :-) -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Boot floppy image files
At 01:46 PM 9/16/2012, Ricardus Vincente wrote: On Sun, 2012-09-16 at 22:39 +0200, Eric Auer wrote: Thanks! Wow. I imagined that it would be a little easier than this. While I understand that FreeDOS is a modern DOS not meant just for older hardware, I thought that one of the purposes for FreeDOS was to make older hardware relevant again. From the looks of it, I can't see any reasonable way to get FreeDOS working on an old machine that has no OS currently on it. Just hang in there, not all people are just ignoring problems like this... Ralf -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Boot floppy image files
not sure if it helps but I made this bootdisk a while back; http://spfiles.no-ip.org/dos_bootdisk.img I use this with an emulator called PCE which emulates an old 8086 based PC. ljones On 9/16/12, Ralf A. Quint free...@gmx.net wrote: At 01:46 PM 9/16/2012, Ricardus Vincente wrote: On Sun, 2012-09-16 at 22:39 +0200, Eric Auer wrote: Thanks! Wow. I imagined that it would be a little easier than this. While I understand that FreeDOS is a modern DOS not meant just for older hardware, I thought that one of the purposes for FreeDOS was to make older hardware relevant again. From the looks of it, I can't see any reasonable way to get FreeDOS working on an old machine that has no OS currently on it. Just hang in there, not all people are just ignoring problems like this... Ralf -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- :) SP -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Boot floppy image files
Ricardus Vincente wizardofg...@gmail.com said: While I understand that FreeDOS is a modern DOS not meant just for older hardware, I thought that one of the purposes for FreeDOS was to make older hardware relevant again. From the looks of it, I can't see any reasonable way to get FreeDOS working on an old machine that has no OS currently on it. How are you going to write the image(s) to a floppy ? Regards JAS -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Boot floppy image files
On Sun, 2012-09-16 at 23:59 +, Jose Antonio Senna wrote: While I understand that FreeDOS is a modern DOS not meant just for older hardware, I thought that one of the purposes for FreeDOS was to make older hardware relevant again. From the looks of it, I can't see any reasonable way to get FreeDOS working on an old machine that has no OS currently on it. How are you going to write the image(s) to a floppy ? Regards JAS I have several friends with USB 3.5 inch drives. So they will make me a Floppy and mail it to me. So weird that I have to use Snail Mail to get a way to boot my old pentium machine! BTW, I think these images will do: http://www.fdos.org/bootdisks/ Rich... -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy
Hi, On 12/18/10, Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net wrote: On 2010/12/17 21:58 (GMT-0800) Thomas D. Dean composed: On Sat, 2010-12-18 at 00:19 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: I tried 'dd if=balder10.img of=/dev/fd0' but got output error. When you install FreeDOS from the CD, I seem to remember something about creating a bootable floppy? I tried that, but got errors there too, varying according to choice of drivers loaded at boot. I don't know what to tell you. Most floppy images of FreeDOS are old (Joris, ODIN, Balder, Lucho), even mine (Ruffidea). There aren't enough volunteers to keep everything up to date anyways. And floppies are a rare (dying) commodity these days, even USB drives. It would be easy to make you a custom image, of course, but it depends on what you need. There hasn't been a proper floppy install since beta8 although one guy did manage to split FD 1.0 into 88 (!) floppy images (see iBiblio for a mirror), though I think the readme says four would be enough for minimal. But 1.0 is too old (heh), IMHO, so you should manually copy some stuff to latest / greatest. IIRC, all you really need are these: kernel.sys, command.com (bare minimum) fdisk (xfdisk? spfdisk?), format, sys (to install) uide, xmgr, rdisk (Jack's drivers) fdapm, ctmouse, moresys, xgrep, nansi, doszip (niceties) mode, display, ega*.cpx, keyb, keyb*.sys (i18n) (decent text editor) http://www.linfo.org/freedos_floppy.html That helped. After continuing to get failures from dd, it made me think to try a different/third machine/floppy drive (running OS/2), and got rawrite to make a floppy that enabled me to boot and FORMAT C: /S. You must be installing, otherwise this wouldn't be needed. You didn't mention FDISK, though, so I assume you already had taken care of that. To create a floppy, you can use diskcopy, rawrite, fdimage, sfx14436, or who knows how many other tools. Chkdsk (0.9) isn't reporting filesystem type. Is that usual in FreeDOS? Dunno, but most likely yes. There's a WHICHFAT tool somewhere, but I can't find the URL. But any FDISK (or similar partition program) should report what filesystem for you. Anyways, I was always told that DOSFSCK (32-bit) was preferred over FreeDOS CHKDSK (16-bit) if at all possible. My C: is 243M, which I had expected to use FAT16B and have a smaller cluster size than 4096, but I guess I'm just rustier than expected on FAT stuff, or am I? 4 kb is nothing, my P166 (600+ MB total partition size) is 16 kb, which is annoying. But in hindsight, two partitions 512 MB would've been smarter. (Too dumb/lazy to temporarily install a second hard drive just to fix that.) The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Get ready for Christmas! :-) -- Lotusphere 2011 Register now for Lotusphere 2011 and learn how to connect the dots, take your collaborative environment to the next level, and enter the era of Social Business. http://p.sf.net/sfu/lotusphere-d2d ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] boot floppy
Anyone know why there's no simple bootable floppy image available in the downloads section of http://www.freedos.org/freedos/files/, one that could format and/or sys C:? -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- Lotusphere 2011 Register now for Lotusphere 2011 and learn how to connect the dots, take your collaborative environment to the next level, and enter the era of Social Business. http://p.sf.net/sfu/lotusphere-d2d ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy
On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 4:36 AM, Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net wrote: Anyone know why there's no simple bootable floppy image available in the downloads section of http://www.freedos.org/freedos/files/, one that could format and/or sys C:? Really? What does the very first line of that page say? Mike -- Lotusphere 2011 Register now for Lotusphere 2011 and learn how to connect the dots, take your collaborative environment to the next level, and enter the era of Social Business. http://p.sf.net/sfu/lotusphere-d2d ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy
On 2010/12/18 04:46 (GMT+0100) Mike Eriksen composed: Felix Miata wrote: Anyone know why there's no simple bootable floppy image available in the downloads section of http://www.freedos.org/freedos/files/, one that could format and/or sys C:? Really? What does the very first line of that page say? We don't have an official single-disk FreeDOS available... I tried 'dd if=balder10.img of=/dev/fd0' but got output error. -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- Lotusphere 2011 Register now for Lotusphere 2011 and learn how to connect the dots, take your collaborative environment to the next level, and enter the era of Social Business. http://p.sf.net/sfu/lotusphere-d2d ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy
On Sat, 2010-12-18 at 00:19 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: On 2010/12/18 04:46 (GMT+0100) Mike Eriksen composed: Felix Miata wrote: Anyone know why there's no simple bootable floppy image available in the downloads section of http://www.freedos.org/freedos/files/, one that could format and/or sys C:? Really? What does the very first line of that page say? We don't have an official single-disk FreeDOS available... I tried 'dd if=balder10.img of=/dev/fd0' but got output error. When you install FreeDOS from the CD, I seem to remember something about creating a bootable floppy? I think I tried that, but, don't remember the results. http://www.linfo.org/freedos_floppy.html tomdean -- Lotusphere 2011 Register now for Lotusphere 2011 and learn how to connect the dots, take your collaborative environment to the next level, and enter the era of Social Business. http://p.sf.net/sfu/lotusphere-d2d ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy
On 12/18/2010 07:19 AM, Felix Miata wrote: On 2010/12/18 04:46 (GMT+0100) Mike Eriksen composed: Felix Miata wrote: Anyone know why there's no simple bootable floppy image available in the downloads section of http://www.freedos.org/freedos/files/, one that could format and/or sys C:? Really? What does the very first line of that page say? We don't have an official single-disk FreeDOS available... I tried 'dd if=balder10.img of=/dev/fd0' but got output error. The above command works fine for me and creates a bootable 1.44MB 3.5 floppy which includes the SYS FORMAT commands -- Lotusphere 2011 Register now for Lotusphere 2011 and learn how to connect the dots, take your collaborative environment to the next level, and enter the era of Social Business. http://p.sf.net/sfu/lotusphere-d2d ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] boot floppy
On 2010/12/17 21:58 (GMT-0800) Thomas D. Dean composed: On Sat, 2010-12-18 at 00:19 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: I tried 'dd if=balder10.img of=/dev/fd0' but got output error. When you install FreeDOS from the CD, I seem to remember something about creating a bootable floppy? I tried that, but got errors there too, varying according to choice of drivers loaded at boot. http://www.linfo.org/freedos_floppy.html That helped. After continuing to get failures from dd, it made me think to try a different/third machine/floppy drive (running OS/2), and got rawrite to make a floppy that enabled me to boot and FORMAT C: /S. Chkdsk (0.9) isn't reporting filesystem type. Is that usual in FreeDOS? My C: is 243M, which I had expected to use FAT16B and have a smaller cluster size than 4096, but I guess I'm just rustier than expected on FAT stuff, or am I? -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- Lotusphere 2011 Register now for Lotusphere 2011 and learn how to connect the dots, take your collaborative environment to the next level, and enter the era of Social Business. http://p.sf.net/sfu/lotusphere-d2d ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user