Re: CD reviewing ethics
I also wrote for the Loaf for nearly a couple of years while playing in a couple of bands and finally quit due to my good conscience, the fact that Slim got all the good alt. country stuff to write about, and all that was left was Nashville shite. See, my Mom always said "If you can't say something nice..."g [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I lived in Atlanta I wrote music columns for Creative Loafing (still do) and my band the Convicts played at a number of clubs. np - Tom T. Hall Project (love Joe Henry's country-funk groove!)
Re: CD reviewing ethics
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BTW, Buddy Siegal did cease writing for the Times and is now the music editor of the OC Weekly, which obviously doesn't have such an ethical problem, or doesn't have ethics... one or the other. Now, now. Don't go running down the OC Weekly. This is Orange County California, fer Chrissakes. I can't tell you how thrilled I was to find ANY sort of alternative paper...not to mention one that, thanks to Buddy, pays particular attention to alt country and other good stuff. Interesting story, though. I had no idea who Buddy was. Dallas
Re: CD reviewing ethics
Neal wrote: I remember a story from a couple years ago. Buddy Blue from the Beat Farmers was writing music reviews for the LA Times under the name of Buddy Siegal. But, as I heard the story, once Times Pop Editor Robert Hilburn learned of his active role as an artist in local clubs, he pretty much told him that it would have to be one or the other. Twas a conflict of interest. How could the same person who's trying to get gigs at certain clubs also write objectively about other gigs at that club? Worth considering. BTW, Buddy Siegal did cease writing for the Times and is now the music editor of the OC Weekly, which obviously doesn't have such an ethical problem, or doesn't have ethics... one or the other. Speaking as a weekly editor (with a somewhat smaller market than Orange County!), sometimes you've got to make a difficult choice between pristine ethics and rare talent. If you have a good writer or reviewer available to work for you, and there's nobody around who can do the kind of job he or she can do, but there remains some sort of conflict of interest, then you might just hire or use the person, while keeping an eye on any possible conflicts. That's what I do. I'd imagine the LA Times has plenty of talent to choose from, a luxury that makes choosing ethics over talent a more comfortable decision. -- Terry Smith
Re: CD reviewing ethics
In a message dated 1/18/99 4:51:09 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Once that relationship crosses the line, it challenges a writer's ability to speak freely in print about an album or an artist. And tainted opinion is the last thing music journalism needs. Challenging, true, but doable -- and often in a more meaningful way precisely *because* of the relationship with the artist. I think Peter Blackstock's cover story on Whiskeytown was a pretty great example of how this works. Ryan knew he was gonna get written about; Peter made it plain that he had gotten pretty close to Ryan. The risk is always to the relationship (friendship, acquantanceship, whatever) and I think everybody has to know that going in. Lots of artists are justifiably wary of befriending writers for that very reason, lots of artist try to suck up for that very reason, I imagine. Sometimes you just have to make up your mind in advance, I think, that you're either never going to write about a band because the relationship is that important, or that there's always that possibility, so you keep everything on the table. Nobody's Dan Rather, here, and nobody's covering Congress. It's not the Federal Budget or some Police scam, it's a life-- expressed in music. The music and the artists can't be separated. What there is to be objective about is a pretty tiny part of the whole enterprise, it seems to me. Sometimes I think the best you can hope for in writing is to do a really good job of imparting your subjectivity. It's all on a continuum, none of which is about facts--it's about anger, love, hate, grief, heartache, grit, passion, stories, landscapes, poetry, beauty, grotesqueness, fear, truth, lies--all personal, and none of it objective, irrespective of genre. I know what I like and what interests me, and I'll do the best I can to tell you why. That's about it. There are people I won't write about, people I'd write about and not tell anything that's nobody's business anyway (I mean, as long as they're not U.S. President), and a whole bunch more music I'd write about whether I like the people or not and probably still be able to give you an idea of what I hear in it that you might like or not, which is just about all I can think of that a music writer's supposed to do. You all do that, here, I think, all the time. What is that fear: That because a writer knows an artist, the writer will hoodwink you into buying something awful? You think a writer wouldn't know a friend was making bad music? See the issue isn't about anything external; the entire potential conflict resides between a writer, and the writer's own aesthetic, and the writer's own bathroom mirror in the morning. Linda, who (don't tell anybody) thinks music journalism is an oxymoron, or else something you'd look for in a Barron's story on the Polygram merger.
Re: CD reviewing ethics
In a message dated 1/19/99 4:49:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: BTW, Buddy Siegal did cease writing for the Times and is now the music editor of the OC Weekly, which obviously doesn't have such an ethical problem, or doesn't have ethics... one or the other. Now, now. Don't go running down the OC Weekly. This is Orange County California, fer Chrissakes. I can't tell you how thrilled I was to find ANY sort of alternative paper...not to mention one that, thanks to Buddy, pays particular attention to alt country and other good stuff. I guess that kinda came out wrong Dallas. I wasn't trying to chastise OC W by any means. I'm well aware of what they're doing down there, heck several years ago i was actaully slated to be its general manager for a start-up that never happened. I've heard by many a closet liberal and art patron that OCW is a saving grace. I'm told it's a pretty fun read too, which can't be said for it's big brother pub in LA. Anyhoo, Neal Weiss
Re: CD reviewing ethics
Neil is right that there's an inherent problem in the relationship between the reviewer and the performer, but Robert Hilburn is way off of it (as he is on most everything). The idea that there's a conflict of interest between playing in clubs and reviewing other bands is ridiculous, especially from a critic who regularly goes on record-company junkets, gets free CDs, priviledged seats at shows, c. It's exactly the problem that we have in political journalism. If you're going to keep up on the inside scoop -- which is your job, after all -- then you have to have friends Inside. And you cant bite the hand that feeds you, not too hard at least. Which is why, of course, most political journalism is so very very lame. And, by extension, why most musical journalism is ... Back in the 70s when she breaking into clubs, Patti Smith used to write great reviews in Rolling Stone. Most reviewers write weak, pandering crap. Obviously this supposed conflict of interest doesnt get in the way of good reviewing. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: CD reviewing ethics
FTR, that last one the Dallas was supposed to go privately to Dallas. Not that I divulged my quest for a two-headed love child or anything. NW
Re: cd reviewing ethics Danger: long and a bit preachy!
linda ray wrote: "Nobody's Dan Rather, here, and nobody's covering Congress." (i can't help but reply!) Close but no cigar -- I DO cover congress and I did give dan a copy of the HTC cd the other day and invited him to sit in with us and sing a coupla train songs any day (we both work for the same outfit) -- I haven't written any alt-country/country reviews yet, but I will. Because writing about alt-country/country is different than covering other genres. Right now it's a fairly underground scene -- Mike and I call the "scene" in DC underground because there aren't many venues for it here and there are no radio stations that play it (no americana stations around, either -- can you believe it?) BUT the audiences are growing - rapidly, because there is the PERCEPTION of a scene. And if there's a perceived scene, there is a scene. We had a terrible ice storm here in DC last Thursday, and - despite write-ups in the Washington Post and City Paper -- I really thought the only people who'd show up for the Greetings from the District of Country cd release party at Iota would be the players. I was happily wrong -- it was jam-packed. We are CREATING a scene here! But whatever you call it -- a scene-- a "movement" or whatever -- for the most part, the publicity isn't going to be done for us - we have to do some flag-waving ourselves. That's what the punkers and new wavers did back in the late 80s in dc- we rented storefronts and begged clubs to let us play on Mondays -- we plastered the town with flyers and started fanzines. Who else was going to write for the fanzines but the musicians? People read DCenes in the record stores, saw our flyers on lightposts around Dupont Circle and Georgetown, then started hearing our records on WGTB (bless you may you rest in peace) and on WHFS (which has now turned into a slop-90s haha "alternative"-those-kids-don't-know-the-meaning-of-alternative station) and it became a very very big scene. My little band Tru Fax the Insaniacs sold out the cavernous (as in Luray Caverns it was so big) Wax Museum and 9:30 Club many times -- and so did our compatriots like the Slickee Boys and Insect Surfers and Tiny Desk Unit and Urban Verbs and many many bands. Oops, I'm getting loud. Anyway, the idea is to grow a "scene" the way we grew up those many years ago. And if i have to put on my own barn dances and publish my own little fanzine or ezine or whatever to help it grow, I'll do it. A slight aside: I think that fanzine and ezine writing is a lot different than writing for, say, The Washington Post. Eric Brace writes a "Circuits" column every week for the Post's Weekend Section. It's about the clubs and bands and shows in town. He's also in the very very good Last Train Home band, but he is not allowed to write about any shows or cds that band is involved in. I asked him to be on the Greetings cd, but he said that he couldn't, because he was going to write about the cd release party. He straddles a very wide road, but he does it very very well. But I wish he were on the cd and I wish he'd play my danged barn dance!
Re: CD reviewing ethics
I'm finding this debate very interesting. One reason that I've never actively pursued playing live music in Ithaca is the fact that I've been the local music writer since 1992. In a small town like this, I've always felt that if I started trying to get gigs for myself or a band, it would more difficult to cover shows at local clubs and write about other bands. And would I be able to write about myself (if I had a legitimate reason) in my weekly column? Probably not... As far as getting close to musicians I write about, I have to say that this has been the best part of my music writing career, both locally and nationally. As someone said, this isn't political journalism, so I don't think there's any real harm in writing about someone you know and like, or liking someone that you write about. That said, I must admit that I avoided talking to Johnny Dowd for several years after I first saw in back in 1991. I didn't want to destroy his what I perceived as his "cool aura" by actually talking to him in person, even though I would constantly see him around Ithaca. Of course, about two and half years ago, I finally got around to interviewing for the cassette release of "Wrong Side of Memphis," and found that he's even cooler now that I actually know him. So did that make it unethical for me to write about him for No Depression, or for that matter, hire his moving company when I bought my new house? I don't think so. Jim Catalano Who's also wondering if it's unethicial to review Bad Religion albums when I play hockey with Greg Graffin...
Re: cd reviewing ethics Danger: long and a bit preachy!
In a message dated 99-01-19 17:25:31 EST, you write: But whatever you call it -- a scene-- a "movement" or whatever -- for the most part, the publicity isn't going to be done for us - we have to do some flag-waving ourselves. That's what the punkers and new wavers did back in the late 80s in dc- we rented storefronts and begged clubs to let us play on Mondays -- we plastered the town with flyers and started fanzines. Who else was going to write for the fanzines but the musicians? People read DCenes in the record stores, saw our flyers on lightposts around Dupont Circle and Georgetown, then started hearing our records on WGTB (bless you may you rest in peace) and on WHFS (which has now turned into a slop-90s haha Anyway, the idea is to grow a "scene" the way we grew up those many years ago. And if i have to put on my own barn dances and publish my own little fanzine or ezine or whatever to help it grow, I'll do it. I have to say I agree. We have a little bluegrass fanzine called The Burr here in the NYC area and we all write about each other in it. And it gets a bit of attention for all the people on the bluegrass scene here, and really encouraged a lot of growth in that little fledgling scene. It created a local forum. We write about each other because we're all passionate about the music enough to put together bands, and put on bluegrass festivals (in NYC!!!) and Twang Festivals and bust our butts for the music. It's hard not to become friends with the bands, especially the ones your really like, and, especially in this tiny little market, where almost every CD project is a labor love, it seems like most musicians wear more than one hat. I have muscian friends who work at labels, who work at magazines, record stores, work for publicists. Ethically, if a band was horrid and you said they would incredible because you had a crush on the lead singer, well, that would suck. But journalists have reputations to keep up as well. If you're going to rave about something in print your creditablilty as a critic is on the line. If they're great, you win, if they blow chunks, you lose (although of course then there's the matter of taste). I've written about The Shankman Twins in Bluegrass Unlimited back in the day when I was doing those kinds of things, and they had become sort of friends of mine. I had seen them at WInterhawk, on the kiddie stage, and been blown away and a series of conversations, we hung out a bit, and pretty soon I was doing an article on them. I don't think I did anything wrong. I've written about many friends of mine for the local paper here in Hoboken when I was a regular contributor, but only when I really really loved the band. I never bumped an artist I didn't know in order to give press to a friend of mine, that would be rotten. ANd I never let anyone pressure me into presenting something the way they wanted it presented. It's hard in the small world of grass roots Twang to avoid having your name on the CD of an artist you've supported and become friendly with, or to have avoided having had a beer with this artist or that, but I think the real ethical problem would be not saying something you really want to say in print because you're afraid of what someone "might think." But then again, what do i know? I'm no hot shot journalist, just a lowly musician... Elena Skye
Re: CD reviewing ethics
In a message dated 99-01-19 12:39:32 EST, Will writes: Back in the 70s when she breaking into clubs, Patti Smith used to write great reviews in Rolling Stone. Most reviewers write weak, pandering crap. Obviously this supposed conflict of interest doesnt get in the way of good reviewing. that''s so cool, I didn't know Patti Smith wrote reviews. I think there must be a lot more musican/journalists than I ever imagined. I know Chrissy Hynde wrote for a while, I think for Trouser Press. It's a hard fence to balance on because of course one would rather be playing music than writing about it, but a scrambling musician has to make a buck somehow and why not do it covering something you love... Elena
RE: CD Reviewing ethics
Isn't the title of this post oxymoronic ? g I was shocked to see a reviewer even stop and think about such things. Without blowing anybody's cover, I can say without reservation that the relationships between musicians and the writers who review and cover them are generally a whole lot closer than either party lets on
Re: CD reviewing ethics
In a message dated 1/18/99 4:51:09 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How could the same person who's trying to get gigs at certain clubs also write objectively about other gigs at that club? Worth considering. When I lived in Atlanta I wrote music columns for Creative Loafing (still do) and my band the Convicts played at a number of clubs. My deal with the editor was to only write about out of town bands, and to keep my dual identities separate. The only thing that I was ever concerned about was the connection I had with the Star Bar, which was the place where most of the alt. country bands play. I had a talk with the booker, and she was comfortable with the double role. We did not play there any more than other bands, and she was able to say "no" to me without repercussions. Of course, Atlanta is a much more musician-friendly place than LA. Slim np - Wynonna's Chevy commercial - ACK!!!
Re: CD Reviewing ethics
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, would it be wrong of me to review this CD? I have no financial interest, no involvement business-wise, etc. Absolutely not. Sarah W.
Re: CD Reviewing ethics
So, would it be wrong of me to review this CD? I have no financial interest, no involvement business-wise, etc. Absolutely not. Well... this is a dicey one, and I'd like to think that every journalist on the planet has at least considered such ethics now and then. If the thank you is simply for some press you might have given the artist along the way, I find no conflict. But overall, I think it's absolutely imperative that you let your editor know the relationship beforehand. Beyond that, and if you still get the green light, I consider it your own cross to bear. It is you that has to sit down and write the review, hopefully you will be doing it for all the right reasons and without any strings attached. In other words, if it sucks, you are still comfortable telling the world so. Otherwise you shouldn't touch the thing. Two cents from atop the ethical dungheap. Neal Weiss
Re: CD Reviewing ethics
Who knows? If you think you have a good (objective, I guess) grasp of what's going on, then do it. I have no moral problems criticizing my friends' works of art. In fact, many of them ask me for my opinion more than I would (when the positions are reversed). Different people do things differently (of course, only a few do them the right way). It's up to you. Can you do it? I wish I knew a shitload of cliches, they're always right. --Matt Cook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, would it be wrong of me to review this CD? I have no financial interest, no involvement business-wise, etc.
Re: CD Reviewing ethics
I don't know why a liner note credit would ever be an issue at all. A liner note credit can mean nothing or everything, whether you get one or not. It seems to me the issue is the relationship and to what extent you feel that colors your judgement about the sound. LR
Re: CD Reviewing ethics
At 04:48 PM 1/16/99 +, you wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, would it be wrong of me to review this CD? I have no financial interest, no involvement business-wise, etc. I've only been mentioned once in liner notes. It was on Sierra's reissue of Nashville West. I was mentioned because I called John Delgotto once a week for about 3 or 4 months riding his ass to get it released on Cd, It was a suprise to see my name there, as well as an honor. I suppose that kind of stuff is old hat to the in-folks like Cantwell, Mary Kat, or Linda Ray, but to me. to have my name associated in any way with Clarence's, was one hell of an honor. Jeff Wall http://www.twangzine.com The Webs least sucky music magazine 727 Alder Circle - Va Beach, Va - 23462 -(757) 467-3764
Re: CD Reviewing ethics
At 05:10 PM 99-01-16 EST, you wrote: O.K. this is something I've run into with book reviewing. I never felt I should review a book if I was acknowledged in any way. But in those cases there was usually a good reason for the achknowledgement -- I had worked with the author, done some research or whatever. I'm sitting here today listening to the CDs that have piled up for me to review. I finally got around to reading the liner notes in one. I'm thanked in the big list of folks who are thanked. I don't recall doing anything other than being on the other end of a couple of late night phone calls when someone involved needed to talk. So, would it be wrong of me to review this CD? I have no financial interest, no involvement business-wise, etc. Advice? If I do proceed and review it, I will explain to my editor what little connection there is. Hell yeah - review it as long as you feel that you can do it with the requisite objectivity. The fact that you are worried is probably an indication that you can. best, jfb John F Butland O- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
