[OSM-talk] Updating a point of interest
I was examining the map for the part of town where I work, and noticed that a former hospital (now commercial offices) was still labeled as a hospital. Google Maps, Yahoo Maps, and Blackberry Maps have that same out-of-date information. What would be the best way to note that the former hospital is no longer a hospital, so that no one will mistakenly go there in a medical emergency? -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SteveC should decide
The general pattern in the USA is that roads on public land tend to be named; roads on private land may or may not be named, according to the wishes of the land-owner. Short service roads, such as to connect a public road to a parking lot, or roads within a farm, are particularly unlikely to be named. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Gervase Markham gerv-gm...@gerv.net Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 22:34:50 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] SteveC should decide On 06/10/09 18:19, John Smith wrote: I have no idea about Europe/England to be honest, never been in any European countries. Oops, sorry for the assumption there. Most roads in Australia tend to be named, even some basic concrete slab colvets that aren't even real bridges get named. OK. The same is not true in many other countries. Gerv ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SteveC should decide
Using the URL seems reasonable, since the URL is unique and the page title likely isn't unique. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 12:43:40 Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] SteveC should decide Richard Fairhurst wrote: Gervase Markham wrote: e.g. maxspeed=no is the same as maxspeed=infinite Although technically correct (some autobahns?) it seems positively dangerous to label as such. (no). oneway=no is useful for highway types which would usually imply oneway=yes: highway=motorway, highway=motorway_link and junction=roundabout. The southern A601(M), that bonkers sliproad on the M50, and (depending on interpretation) the Swindon Magic Roundabout are UK examples of each case where two-way traffic is permitted. Richard Do you know where are the Motorway Ends signs are located in you examples? OS define the links as M* classification, but Google shows them as A* B*. http://osm.org/go/evhVzyiB http://osm.org/go/euwqKRNL I interpret the the Magic Roundabout as separate lanes as there are central reservations. Which, I believe, is how you mapped it (?) http://osm.org/go/eumbs5che-- I notice in the relation for the MR, the wiki tag has the title of the relevant page. I've been using the URL. Is there a reason I shouldn't? Cheers Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Google has dual carriage way where it's not built yet
I have found situations in the past where maps showed bridges that had been planned, but, even decades later, were never actually built. --Original Message-- From: Polderrunner Sender: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org To: Open Street Map mailing list Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Google has dual carriage way where it's not built yet Sent: Oct 8, 2009 1:56 PM Dave F. wrote: It might be worth contacting the developer. They might have plans that they can let you copy. Not sure you got my point (I should have used a smiley). I don't want to put anything into osm that is just lines on a blueprint in a drawer at the municipality. I map what's on the ground. When (if) those streets actually get built then I will map them. TeleAtlas apparently got those plans from the municipality and promptly included them in their database as if those streets are already there. May lead to a few confused TomTom users in that area :-) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal -RFC -(man_made=mineshaft)
It seems like it would make more sense to have a tag called peak, with attributes natural or manmade, rather than the other way around. After all, every object in the world is either manmade or natural. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Lesi l...@lesi.is-a-geek.net Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:39:48 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC -(man_made=mineshaft) Lesi wrote: I was already planning to start a proposal for heaps. At the moment I use natural=peak. Not sure what to use at the moment, but they're definitely not natural. Cheers Dave F. That's right. But they are peaks. There should be man_made=peak. The problem is, that after a recultivation a slag heap or a rubbish dump often can not be distinguished from a natural peak. lesi ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] multipolygon (lake) not rendering
I think he means, Wouldn't it be better to tag the entire island with a name, rather than tagging each segment separately? -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 23:49:16 To: Rahkonen Jukkajukka.rahko...@mmmtike.fi Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] multipolygon (lake) not rendering Hi, Rahkonen Jukka wrote: For what? The inner ways of multipolygons where the outer way is tagged as natural=water? You don't need to tag them with anything indicating that they're an island, they already are tagged as islands implicitly since they're a multipolygon. Islands tend to have names. Does it really work to give a name for each inner ring of a lake polygon without any other tags? What do you mean by does it really work? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin eTrex Vista Hcx
The GPS in my car is a Garmin (I don't recall the exact model at the moment). It appears to be much more accurate when the car is in motion than when the car is stationary. If I power the GPS up with the car stationary, the location given can be inaccurate by 100 meters or more. Once the car starts to move, the GPS can locate the car within 3 or 4 meters. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Konrad Skeri kon...@skeri.com Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 18:08:58 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Garmin eTrex Vista Hcx No matter how good signal you have there is always a chance that the given position is wrong without limitations. So when talking of a satellite error of +-5 meters that actually means that with 95% probability the error is +-5 meters. The possible error in the last 5% is limitless, and my guess is that you were hitting that last 5%. (Last week my GPS, which is not a Garmin, placed me on the north pole +-20 meters for 5 seconds before returning me to a more sane position. The probability such misreading to appear should be very, very low.) As Mike wrote, this is more likely to happen under trees, near large buildings or other obstacles. If you return a third time you should get a position that is very close to one of the first two. Konrad 2009/10/31 Shalabh shalab...@gmail.com: [...] 3. I parked my car near a village a day before, marked a waypoint. The satellite error was at +- 5metres. Today morning, I came back and marked another waypoint. This time the error was +-4 metres but this waypoint is 150 metres off the earlier one. The car keys were with me and I can vouch that my car does not move on its own. :) [...] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] alley - for tree-lined roads?
Speaking as a non-German, I find tree-lined more specific. In American usage, avenue is just a synonym for street or road, with no connotation of tree-lined or not tree-lined. An alley in American usage is a narrow service road, generally only one lane wide, used for low-speed access to the side or back of properties. It is distinguished from a driveway in that a driveway is on private land and generally gives access to just one property; an alley is on public property and generally gives access to multiple properties. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Robert rop...@online.de Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 12:54:32 To: Talk Openstreetmaptalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] [tagging] alley - for tree-lined roads? Hello, We are discussing in talk-de (German board) just streets and other ways with many trees nearby. I found here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dtree http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/tree_row alley=left/right/both I think the tag “alley” is a mistranslation (false friends) and 1. avenue or 2. tree-lined road is better for roads marked by trees. The tag alley is already used for highway=service; service=alley for narrow ways. I think the second version “tree-lined” or ”tree_lined” is better than “avenue”. With this key we can use it for other lines of trees, for example near railways, rivers and so on. At the moment this tag is probably only mainly used in Germany: http://osmdoc.com/de/tag/alley/#values comparison: http://tagwatch.stoecker.eu/Germany/De/tags.html key alley with values: both (251), right (27), left (26), yes (8) My questions: Would we like to change this tag? Robert ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion for JOSM
Bitmapped images don't scale well. When you zoom in, the pixels get larger, rather than more pixels being added. For purposes of map-making, it seems like a vector-based system would work better. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 23:51:38 To: m...@koppenhoefer.com Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion for JOSM 2009/11/3 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2009/11/3 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com Gimp lets you plot freehand or if you hold shift will do a straight line, I'm sure there is a number of modifiers that would make a free hand mode useful... Gimp is a bitmap-based-programm. As I pointed out: nearly all vector-based programms offer freehand-modes (Adobe Illustrator, Ex-Macromedia Freehand, Flash, ...) but they are not useful when it comes to precise drawing. It doesn't matter if it's vector or raster, we're essentially talking about plotting points and having those points joined by a line/way, the point is it's just a data entry method, and as I said even gimp can draw a precise line. If you don't want to use such a features that's your pejorative, there is plenty of features I don't use in JOSM, but other people would like the option of being able to do this. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] alley - for tree-lined roads?
Unless you include a definition of how close the trees have to be to the roadway, almost every roadway in areas with enough rainfall to support trees would be classified as tree-lined. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Konrad Skeri kon...@skeri.com Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 22:14:56 Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] alley - for tree-lined roads? +1 Adding a new value to the highway tag does not seem to fit with the current view of highway-tag usage. This suggestion keeps the importance of the roads intact (and thus helps routing software calculate the best route - should a tree-lined road be preferred over a tertiary? Over a unclassified?) And both a residential and tertiary can have trees on the sides. Konrad 2009/11/4 malenki o...@malenki.ch: As I explained at talk-de a new tag for $way_with_trees_beside is suberfluous. Why not to use the existing natural= tag at existing ways (railways, waterways, highways) like this: highway=tertiary surface=asphalt natural:trees=left(/right/both) name:botanical=Tilia tomentosa Regards malenki ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Seamark/Marine-Tagging-Proposal open for Voting
I take it you are distinguishing between a lighthouse that stands on land, and one that is set directly in the water (not on an island)? The latter would still be a man made tower, so it would seem that the manmade=tower would still be applicable. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 05:12:15 To: Mario Salvinisalv...@t-online.de Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org; Tag discussion,strategy and related toolstagg...@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Seamark/Marine-Tagging-Proposal open for Voting ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mentioned in NYTimes
If you read the article, as opposed to just the front page, you will find OpenStreetMaps mentioned several times by name. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 10:37:20 To: m...@koppenhoefer.com Cc: OSM Talktalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mentioned in NYTimes ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] How to mark a footpath that goes under a bridge
I am in the process of learning how to use JOSM to transform a GPS trace into a way, and have a question about how to mark a footpath that passes under a highway bridge. As I understand the conventions, placing a node at this crossing point would imply that they connect to each other, which is not the case. Should the ways simply cross, relying on the layer tag to mark which one is above the other? The existing highway data, probably derived from a TIGER import, does not indicate bridges as opposed to regular roadways. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to mark a footpath that goes under a bridge
So, ground level is level 0? I had wondered about that, as the scanty documentation that I have seen didn't make that point clear. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 13:56:23 To: j...@jfeldredge.com; talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] How to mark a footpath that goes under a bridge On 28/11/2009 13:52, John F. Eldredge wrote: I am in the process of learning how to use JOSM to transform a GPS trace into a way, and have a question about how to mark a footpath that passes under a highway bridge. As I understand the conventions, placing a node at this crossing point would imply that they connect to each other, which is not the case. Should the ways simply cross, relying on the layer tag to mark which one is above the other? The existing highway data, probably derived from a TIGER import, does not indicate bridges as opposed to regular roadways. The should cross, not connect, but the higher way one should be split along the length of the bridge and marked layer=1, bridge=yes (unless the footway is more a tunnel under the line, in which case instead split the footway and mark the sub-railway section as layer=-1, tunnel=yes) (This isn't JOSM specific BTW) David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Path vs footway vs cycleway vs...
Underwater bicycling, the next Olympic sport... ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] Path vs footway vs cycleway vs... From :stevag...@gmail.com Date :Sat Nov 28 08:24:57 America/Chicago 2009 (Australian bias showing, I'm unable to conceive of the idea of cycling from one country to another...) -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands
I would class that as a causeway, rather than an embankment. I think wet area in the Wikipedia definition would refer to boggy ground, or an intermittently-flooded low-lying area, rather than to lake-bottom or sea-bottom that is underwater all of the time. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Martin Fossdal Guttesen mgutte...@hotmail.com Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 14:48:20 To: m...@koppenhoefer.com Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands
If you look at the photos on the web page, the feature in question is definitely man made, not natural. It is a raised walkway between two islands, made by piling up rocks. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 04:12:44 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands
Just out of curiosity, what is used for the coastline of an oceanic island? High tide mark? Low tide mark? The average of the two? There would be some instances where you have a single island at low tide, and two separate islands (divided by a shoal) at high tide. Since I live about 500 miles from the ocean, this isn't a matter that I am ever likely to deal with myself. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 12:25:40 To: m...@koppenhoefer.com Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands
Yes, US English would also call that a ford. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Liz ed...@billiau.net Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:12:49 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, Randy wrote: Liz wrote: On Tue, 1 Dec 2009, Cartinus wrote: Where do you get the idea that a causeway is periodically inundated from? When it is an Australian causeway in a dry creek bed. That would not be a causeway in US English. Is the byway running along the creek or just crossing it (what we in Texas call a low-water crossing)? The Strine causeway is equivalent to ford in UK (from whence I came, last century). It is a concrete pad in the bottom of a waterway to allow the vehicles to cross the creek. This one shows the periodic inundation http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2009/01/06/25441_ntnews.html This one is an older one which more closely represents the UK type, but again is designed to be flooded. http://archivesoutside.records.nsw.gov.au/can-you-date-this-photograph-2/ A causeway across a creek, with water http://www.communitywebs.org/FriendsofInnaminckaStrzelecki/pictures2.html ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Good routing vs legal routing (was: Path vsfootwayvs cycleway vs...)
The same meaning of greenways (paths on public land, allowed to pedestrians and bicycles but motorized vehicles), is in use here in Nashville, TN, USA. They are a part of the public park system, and, so far, are mostly along stream or river banks. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Mike Harris mik...@googlemail.com Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 20:44:45 To: 'Sam Vekemans'acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com; 'Steve Bennett'stevag...@gmail.com Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org; 'Tim Hoskin'thos...@tctrail.ca; i...@tctrail.ca Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Good routing vs legal routing (was: Path vs footwayvs cycleway vs...) 'Greenways' does have a specific meaning in England - doubtless subtly different from whatever the Canadian definition is! But they can all be covered, IMHO, by the tags usually used in England without introducing an additional one. Usually they are permissive ways for pedestrians and bicycles - usually in urban / suburban /near urban areas. Sometimes they coincide with a public right of way but they are usually additional. Mike Harris -Original Message- From: Sam Vekemans [mailto:acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com] Sent: 02 December 2009 18:41 To: Steve Bennett Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org; Tim Hoskin; i...@tctrail.ca Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Good routing vs legal routing (was: Path vs footwayvs cycleway vs...) Hi all, just jumping in here, on my show today (if i have time) im going to talk about 'greenways' and how this concept works, and highlights a challenge for mapping. (path vs. Cycleway vs. Footway vs. Bridleway) Cheers, Sam ustream.tv/channel/acrosscanadatra tinychat.com/acrosscanada 6pm PST today On 11/30/09, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Interesting. I don't know if I agree with that or not. I certainly don't want to be involved in a project which encourages people to break the law, since encouraging people to break the law is in itself against the law where I live. If it helps you sleep better, presume that riding on a bike-prohibited footpath actually means dismounting and walking with the bike :) IMHO many places that the maps will say bikes aren't allowed will actually be grey areas. It's perfectly appropriate to leave that decision to the user, with appropriate caveats. (Pretty easy to do: the cue sheet can say Note: This section is not marked as legal for bicycles. Please respect your local laws.) Steve PS Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I'm not some kind of biking hoon. I don't advocate riding at high speed through pedestrian-frequented areas, on footpaths etc. I'm more interested in finding places to ride that people hadn't thought of, rather than using paths that have been explicitly ruled out. -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blog: http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans OpenStreetMap IRC: http://irc.openstreetmap.org @Acrosscanadatrails ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Good routing vs legal routing (was: Path vsfootwayvs cycleway vs...)
That was supposed to say NOT motor vehicles. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 20:55:58 To: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org Cc: Open Street Map mailing listtalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Good routing vs legal routing (was: Path vsfootwayvs cycleway vs...) The same meaning of greenways (paths on public land, allowed to pedestrians and bicycles but motorized vehicles), is in use here in Nashville, TN, USA. They are a part of the public park system, and, so far, are mostly along stream or river banks. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Mike Harris mik...@googlemail.com Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 20:44:45 To: 'Sam Vekemans'acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com; 'Steve Bennett'stevag...@gmail.com Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org; 'Tim Hoskin'thos...@tctrail.ca; i...@tctrail.ca Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Good routing vs legal routing (was: Path vs footwayvs cycleway vs...) 'Greenways' does have a specific meaning in England - doubtless subtly different from whatever the Canadian definition is! But they can all be covered, IMHO, by the tags usually used in England without introducing an additional one. Usually they are permissive ways for pedestrians and bicycles - usually in urban / suburban /near urban areas. Sometimes they coincide with a public right of way but they are usually additional. Mike Harris -Original Message- From: Sam Vekemans [mailto:acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com] Sent: 02 December 2009 18:41 To: Steve Bennett Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org; Tim Hoskin; i...@tctrail.ca Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Good routing vs legal routing (was: Path vs footwayvs cycleway vs...) Hi all, just jumping in here, on my show today (if i have time) im going to talk about 'greenways' and how this concept works, and highlights a challenge for mapping. (path vs. Cycleway vs. Footway vs. Bridleway) Cheers, Sam ustream.tv/channel/acrosscanadatra tinychat.com/acrosscanada 6pm PST today On 11/30/09, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Interesting. I don't know if I agree with that or not. I certainly don't want to be involved in a project which encourages people to break the law, since encouraging people to break the law is in itself against the law where I live. If it helps you sleep better, presume that riding on a bike-prohibited footpath actually means dismounting and walking with the bike :) IMHO many places that the maps will say bikes aren't allowed will actually be grey areas. It's perfectly appropriate to leave that decision to the user, with appropriate caveats. (Pretty easy to do: the cue sheet can say Note: This section is not marked as legal for bicycles. Please respect your local laws.) Steve PS Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I'm not some kind of biking hoon. I don't advocate riding at high speed through pedestrian-frequented areas, on footpaths etc. I'm more interested in finding places to ride that people hadn't thought of, rather than using paths that have been explicitly ruled out. -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blog: http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans OpenStreetMap IRC: http://irc.openstreetmap.org @Acrosscanadatrails ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Greenways
As used by the city park system here in Nashville, Tennessee, USA, a greenway is a paved footpath/cycle path located in a park, and generally adjoining a stream or river. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: James Stewart j.k.stew...@ed.ac.uk Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 20:53:40 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Greenways ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started
I have been subscribed to the OSM-talk mailing list for about two months now; this current discussion is the first that I have heard of the license-change issue. So, if there has been ongoing discussion of the issue in the last couple of months, it hasn't been on the general list. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: SteveC st...@asklater.com Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 18:35:13 To: Ulf Lampingulf.lamp...@googlemail.com Cc: talk@openstreetmap.orgtalk@openstreetmap.org; Tom Hughest...@compton.nu Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] OSMF license change vote has started On Dec 5, 2009, at 18:17, Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com wrote: SteveC schrieb: On Dec 5, 2009, at 3:44 PM, Ulf Lamping wrote: With a gun at their head: Refuse: After the migration (currently 26th February 2010), your contributions will not be included in ODbL licensed downloads and you will not be able to continue contributing.. If you call this a vote, then we have pretty different understanding about voting. Ulf! Wonderful to have your input at this very late stage! Can we expect you to volunteer for the LWG? Please be sure to read the minutes of the last few months meetings first. Even better - can you outline your alternative suggestion? For some crazy reason the LWG thought it should start with the members of the OSMF, you know, the OSMF which set up the LWG in the first place and then move on to thousands of contributors once the members had decided what to do. Crazy I know! Maybe they should have started by asking random people in the street.. that would be fun! Anyway, do let us all know how your plan is better than what the LWG has built over the last year? Super looking forward to it! So this is a well designed and manufactured gun still heading at the mappers head - to keep the picture. Maybe the OSMF / LWG should have *asked* the people involved the most - the mappers? Are you also living on planet Frederik? Out of all the crazy claims this has to be the most crazy. Where have you been the past year of consultations? Yours c. Steve Regards, ULFL ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSMF: The people you are going to hand over your OSMdata ...
It is my (possibly mistaken) impression that, once the new contract goes into effect, any old data that had been entered, previous to the new contract, by someone who does not agree to the new contract, will be removed from the database. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Niklas Cholmkvist towards...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 16:25:47 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OSMF: The people you are going to hand over your OSM data ... On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 3:55 PM, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote: great-snip There's no safeguard, for example, that prevents the OSMF from changing the Contributor Terms. They can do that at any point in the future without any kind of vote or other formality. That's a pretty big hole in itself At least the data before the license change will be under the previous license. I also don't think the community will let this happen. I left wikimapia because of empty promises, and also because the community didn't care the least about the data being non-free .(a few people only cared, and I guess they left too) Niklas -- Niklas Holmkvist ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Opinion poll about the new licence Odbl 1.0
If the person who originally mapped the noses does not agree, does this mean that all of the information on the way must be deleted? If a particular contributor has died since making their contributions, they cannot either agree nor disagree. Does this mean that all work derived from their contributions must automatically be deleted? Given the large number of contributors, it is a near certainty that some of them will have died by now. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] Opinion poll about the new licence Odbl 1.0 From :balr...@gmail.com Date :Sun Dec 06 12:28:50 America/Chicago 2009 2009/12/6 80n 80n...@gmail.com: If a way/relation needs to be deleted because its long history includes a mapper who opted out, it can be easily recreated if you have the nodes. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Opinion poll about the new licence Odbl 1.0
What will be the likely scenario for the USA, where most of the data is derived from the TIGER database (land attributes such as roads, buildings, rivers, and lakes; political areas such as states and counties; and statistical areas such as census tracts)? By US law, this data is in and must remain in the public domain. If all OSM data derived from TIGER data must be removed or rendered read-only, this won't leave much editable data in the USA. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org Date: Sun, 06 Dec 2009 22:39:13 To: Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmasonava...@gmail.com Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Opinion poll about the new licence Odbl 1.0 Hi, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 20:36, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: For Australians it means the loss of the coastline, most of which has been re- edited from government data, and major rivers like the Murray If someone presents me with a boolean Do you allow relicensing under the ODbL I'll have to say no because some of my edits are derived from CC-BY-SA data I don't have permission to license (and I probably can't even recall what all of it is). Which'll mean nuking 50% of all the data in Iceland most of which I've touched at some point. First, I would appreciate if people could stop talking about nuking data. The absolute worst case, where data cannot be re-licensed into ODbL because the original contributor is dead, does not agree, cannot be reached, or cannot be bothered to read our proposal, is this: The non-relicensed data will sit in some kind of separate, possibly read-only server, from where it can be accessed, just like now, under the terms of CC-BY-SA. This server may or may not be made available by OSMF but it will certainly exist, and OSMF has already said that a full history dump will be provided. We will, in all likelihood, be rendering tiles that display the old data alongside the new data in a fashion largely indiscernible from today's maps. These map tiles will have to be CC-BY-SA licensed (because part of them comes from CC-BY-SA sources) but that's fine with us. (OSMF has not made a statement, and probably neither a decision, about whether or not the osm.org tileserver will serve such mixed renderings but if that server doesn't then you can be sure others will fill the need.) We might even - and again, this is something outside of OSMF's control and can be set up by any interested group in the project - allow limited write access to the old CC-BY-SA database, so that when things are eventually relicensed or resurveyed, they can be removed from the old data set to avoid rendering conflicts. So for map rendering, the damage will be, I shall say, minimal. More effort for rendering, yes, but the same good maps that we already have. It will be more difficult for routing engines or other users of our data because combining CC-BY-SA and ODbL data in a database is not possible except in fringe situations where you can get away with having a collective database. Also, of course, editing will be more difficult because you have the legacy data. But even here it is thinkable to have editors that will download old and new data, and maybe display the old data in a greyed out version or so, indicating that editing is only possible on the new data. (There's neither technical nor legal reason to disallow editing on the old data, but we do want to have an incentive for people to ultimately make the switch I think. Also we have to be careful not to copy data from one dataset to another.) But this is the worst case. I firmly believe that it will be possible to come to terms with many contributors, even if they disagree with ODbL at the moment, or if they are government bodies which act at turtle speed. It will take some effort and may not always work, but I see no reason to be so pessimistic about this. (It will be necessary for OSMF to rein in those in it's ranks who think that this can be achieved by insulting anyone who is against ODbL, but I trust this will automatically come as the organisation matures.) Also, there will surely be a fine-grained approach to edits. Just because you have touched something in Iceland and cannot make the switch to ODbL, one can still retrieve the version from before you touched it, and use that. Better than nothing. (In cases like yours, I think one should really make an effort to determine which of your edits are tainted by external CC-BY-SA sources. I think it would be ok to get this 90% right, it doesn't have to be absolutely correct - if a few CC-BY-SA items slip through, or if a few non-CC-BY-SA items get dropped, the damage isn't that big.) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008
Re: [OSM-talk] And the prize for the largest closed way goes to...
The resulting circle would only be the equator if it lay on the plane of the Earth's rotation, but I agree that the software probably wouldn't be happy about having the starting and ending points coincide. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Anthony o...@inbox.org Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 12:55:50 To: Dirk-Lüder Kreieosm-l...@deelkar.net Cc: Talk Openstreetmaptalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] And the prize for the largest closed way goes to... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Ditches
If you are going to tag every culvert in the world, you are talking about adding millions of additional entries to the database. This seems rather unnecessary. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 00:15:48 To: Jukka Rahkonenjukka.rahko...@mmmtike.fi Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Ditches On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:36 PM, Jukka Rahkonen jukka.rahko...@mmmtike.fi wrote: Of course I do not place nodes at the road-ditch intersections. But we have this kind of intersections where a ditch is goind under a road through a concrete or plastic pipe approximately every fine hundred meters on every single road we have. Do you suggest that splitting the ways, making 2 meter long sections as a brigde=yes, layer=1 really makes sense? How ofter guessing that highway is above waterway would fail? Honestly, it sounds like some kind of tag for the node would be appropriate. I would support creating a junction and tagging it culvert=1, for small cases where bridge=1 is overkill. (Like the image provided). That would remove ambiguity, and clarify exactly what's happening. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM 2010 Girona, Spain!!
All of Spain is further north than Tennessee, the US state where I live. Tennessee is on about the same latitude as Algeria. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:10:32 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] SOTM 2010 Girona, Spain!! Perhaps that's southern Spain in the Sunny Florida sense, all of it being a tad southern. Now I'm getting more confused about your abilities in geography All of those locations are North North compared to where? ;-) Nick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Valuable Tracks found / French + Spanish^WPortuguese translators needed.
Water sources in the desert are not just Points of Interest, they are necessary for survival should your vehicle break down in some manner. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Martin nomorebigf...@gmx.ch Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 13:23:03 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Valuable Tracks found / French + Spanish^W Portuguese translators needed. Hi Steven Le Roux Beside this great POI informations we should use any good source for improving maps here. Also tracks in the middle of the desert are useful, these are the only roads for the locals (and travellers) there. Combining the precision of this tracks with the description out-of-copyright maps would give a big improvement, see here (wait a bit, map tiles are served by 600 kbit/s): http://integrate.ch/app/openlayers.html?lat=33.2348lon=-3.03442zoom=9trackfiles=tracks%2Ftrace_debdou_anoual.gpxlayers=B000TFFFT (Clicking once on the map would bring you direct to potlatch with that layer as background) Think also to locals which probably could tag this mapped roads properly (in case of an internet connection) but not not map it because of the lack of a GPS device. BTW: Sorry for the spanish portuguese mismatch! Thanks for volunteer. Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why doesn't OSM implement a simple measure to protectit's users and passwords?
There also does not appear to be any provision on the OSM web site for changing to a new password, which is something that one should do occasionally. At least, if there is a way to do so, I haven't found it. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 00:11:43 To: Talk Openstreetmaptalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Why doesn't OSM implement a simple measure to protect it's users and passwords? When does anyone plan to use SSL to protect passwords and users on OSM? I noticed the other day about how JOSM puts this in it's MOTD: Your username and password are sent to the server unencrypted. If you do not like this, do not upload. While I'm aware that this is occurring, many others may not and may be put off with statements like the above. While removing that statement from JOSM might fix some of the image problems, it doesn't do anything for real security. There has even been a bug on this issue for 3 years! http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/275 This is even more concerning when you add into the mix the UK government is trying to record globs and globs of additional information on data travelling across internet links in the UK, among other things. http://go.theregister.com/feed/www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/22/mobile_imp/ As has been pointed out on the trac ticket, OSM should be eligible for a free cert from godaddy, then there is ideological reasons for supporting other options like CAcert, just like many support OSM for ideological reasons rather than Google. I realise there is some APIs floating about that use alternative authentication schemes, but the majority of users will be sending their passwords (and everything else for that matter) clear text over the internet for all and sundry to snoop on. Is it really reasonable to not offer SSL encryption? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why doesn't OSM implement a simple measure toprotectit's users and passwords?
Ah. I had not realized that my name, at the top of the page, was a link, and so hadn't found that page. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 16:38:32 Cc: Open Street Map mailing listtalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Why doesn't OSM implement a simple measure to protectit's users and passwords? 2009/12/22 John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com: There also does not appear to be any provision on the OSM web site for changing to a new password, which is something that one should do occasionally. At least, if there is a way to do so, I haven't found it. Select your name at the top, (Its a link) Then My Settings Change you password and save changes. Peter. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 00:11:43 To: Talk Openstreetmaptalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Why doesn't OSM implement a simple measure to protect it's users and passwords? When does anyone plan to use SSL to protect passwords and users on OSM? I noticed the other day about how JOSM puts this in it's MOTD: Your username and password are sent to the server unencrypted. If you do not like this, do not upload. While I'm aware that this is occurring, many others may not and may be put off with statements like the above. While removing that statement from JOSM might fix some of the image problems, it doesn't do anything for real security. There has even been a bug on this issue for 3 years! http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/275 This is even more concerning when you add into the mix the UK government is trying to record globs and globs of additional information on data travelling across internet links in the UK, among other things. http://go.theregister.com/feed/www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/22/mobile_imp/ As has been pointed out on the trac ticket, OSM should be eligible for a free cert from godaddy, then there is ideological reasons for supporting other options like CAcert, just like many support OSM for ideological reasons rather than Google. I realise there is some APIs floating about that use alternative authentication schemes, but the majority of users will be sending their passwords (and everything else for that matter) clear text over the internet for all and sundry to snoop on. Is it really reasonable to not offer SSL encryption? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What's the policy on unsurveyed roads from imagery?
Well, you don't want to ride on an expressway (for safety reasons, and also because doing so is illegal in many cases). However, in addition to the speed of the motorized traffic, you also have factors such as the presence or absence of a dedicated bicycle lane and/or wide shoulders, whether the shoulder is paved, gravel, or just bare earth, the amount of broken glass and other hazardous debris, etc. I don't think that simply categorizing the road as primary/secondary/tertiary is enough. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Anthony o...@inbox.org Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 18:08:00 To: Lized...@billiau.net Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] What's the policy on unsurveyed roads from imagery? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] augmenting contour data with gps track logs
I have heard that the altitude data available to civilian GPS units (as opposed to the US military units) has deliberate errors built in, in order to make it harder for someone planning for a future artillery attack. There is said to be a separate, more accurate, but encrypted, altitude signal for US military use. Remember, the GPS satellite constellation was put up by the US military. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 00:20:09 To: Robin Paulsonrobin.paul...@gmail.com Cc: OSM Talktalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] augmenting contour data with gps track logs Hi, Robin Paulson wrote: ok, i didn't realise that. what levels of bad precision are we talking about; i assume it varies form model to model; how does it compare to the precision of srtm? I'm not really an expert in this but Internet sources say that altitude error is *at least* factor 1.5 compared to x/y error. My personal experience (with a decent recent Garmin device) is that a 200ft altitude error is not unusual. SRTM3 reportedly has a maximum error of about 20ft (but I haven't verified that myself). i would envisage it being used in favour of the srtm data (which is very coarse, as you point out, hence my interest in replacing it) There are also patches of better altitude data available. What we normally use is SRTM-3, but for the area of the USA there is also SRTM-1 with triple the resolution. my idea was to extract a series pf lat, lon, alt triplet from the gps tracks, and use this to build a 'mesh' of the earth's surface, which would be stored independently of the points/ways which we create at the moment. the implicit assumption being that wherever the post box or any other object is placed on the globe, it takes it's height from the underlying mesh. from this mesh, we can then generate contours, 3d models, etc, etc as we do at present with the srtm data That would certainly be a good start. I do however think that special editors and the ability to manually edit that mesh will be required sooner or later. You might, for example, have very a few very precise measurements that you want reflected in the data, or you might want to correct for an erroneous track or something. The folks from OpenSeaMap are, by the way, thinking along the same lines for bathymetry (ocean depth) data. They might get access to a very coarse international data set which they can use as a basis, but then want to refine that using spot measurements or other sources. It appears that well-equipped ships, when en-route, automatically broadcast ocean depth measurements of some kind which can be used to improve data. In my eyes, a separate project OpenTerrainModel or something like that is called for, the results of which could seamlessly replace our usage of SRTM data today. exactly is there an api for accessing the gpx files en masse? or a gpx.planet download? Lars Francke is working on something like it at the moment, see Export of GPX data over on the dev list. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Public notary (Map feature POI proposal)
In the USA, a Notary Public merely attests that the person who signed a document showed official identification to prove their identity matched the name on the document. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Alex S. m...@swavely.com Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 01:25:29 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Public notary (Map feature POI proposal) Valent Turkovic wrote: I like the idea of office=laywer, office=notary maybe we need this, no? In the USA, Notary is a secondary function/service (most bank branches here have notaries public on staff, for example). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Edit war on Key:religion - Pastafarians
The logical Pastafarian building would be a multilevel highway interchange, with crisscrossing bridges, since a slang term for those (at least in the USA) is spaghetti junction. If you have to cross one of those while it is covered in ice, there is definitely some prayer taking place (although not necessarily to His Noodly Majesty). -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:17:26 To: Aun Johnsenli...@gimnechiske.org Cc: OpenStreetMaptalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Edit war on Key:religion - Pastafarians 2010/1/11 Aun Johnsen li...@gimnechiske.org: The best political statement we can make is inclusionism. Include whatever in the database, so that everybody can do whatever they want with the map. What I'm wondering is, where is a pastafarian building? After all, I thought we were tagging what's on the ground? If there is one, that should end all the discussion. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Public notary (Map feature POI proposal)
I was responding to the definition of an office as somewhere a licensed professional works. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:41:42 To: Steve Bennettstevag...@gmail.com Cc: Open Street Map mailing listtalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Public notary (Map feature POI proposal) 2010/1/12 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 3:13 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: You also have the fact that a licensed professional may work elsewhere than at an office. For example, a medical doctor may work at an office; the same doctor may also work at a hospital. At that point we're really straying beyond making a map, aren't we? Again you seem to like telling people what they can and can't map, just because what you think should be mapped doesn't mean everyone else agrees with you. In any case we're not creating a map, we're creating a database of map information. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoEye Haiti imagery Ok'd
You may be seeing the earthquake damage, since it damaged or collapsed thousands of buildings, and may well have caused some coastal changes via landslides, the raising or lowering of land, etc. --Original Message-- From: Simone Cortesi Sender: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org To: Schuyler Erle Cc: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] GeoEye Haiti imagery Ok'd Sent: Jan 15, 2010 9:58 AM On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 02:21, Schuyler Erle schuy...@nocat.net wrote: http://maps.nypl.org/tilecache/1/haiti/$z/$x/$y.jpg You can also use this custom imagery URL in Potlatch: http://maps.nypl.org/tilecache/1/haiti/!/!/!.png Finally, there's WMS for use in JOSM: http://maps.nypl.org/relief/maps/wms/32?request=GetMapversion=1.1.1styles=format=image/pngsrs=epsg:4326exceptions=application/vnd.ogc.se_inimage; These URLs are using the exact same image as the gravitystorm.dev.osm server, but might be under less load... Is the image (the nypl) as of now correctly placed if opened in JOSM? I see many shifted building and somewhere also a problems with the coastline. is this just older data that need to be moved around or is there some shift in the imagery? -- -S ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoEye Haiti imagery Ok'd
I haven't had a chance to compare the image to the map; I am just pointing out that some discrepancies are likely to be due to earthquake damage, not mapping errors. --Original Message-- From: Simone Cortesi To: John Eldredge Cc: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org Cc: Schuyler Erle Cc: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] GeoEye Haiti imagery Ok'd Sent: Jan 15, 2010 10:11 AM On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 17:07, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: You may be seeing the earthquake damage, since it damaged or collapsed thousands of buildings, and may well have caused some coastal changes via landslides, the raising or lowering of land, etc. so, the image is correctly placed and I can safely move the coast around to match it? -- -S -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Intriguing artifacts in GeoEye data
If only man-made artifacts are displaced, but not the terrain, that must be a mapping error. An actual earthquake land-shift would have displaced the terrain, and moved buildings and other artifacts along with the land. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 15:42:03 To: openstreetmaptalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Intriguing artifacts in GeoEye data If you look at the coast of Haiti, west of port-au-prince some strange artifacts are shown on a lot of places where building and beach clubs (I presume) touch the coast line. Look here for example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=18.5474002361298lon=-72.574583435zoom=15 and enable the GeoEye data. Under the sea level traces of the coastal buildings are seen. It seems as if the whole of Haiti coastline slided 50 meters southwards due to the quake. It's strange however, that only human constructions leave traces, and this makes this theory less probable. Any thoughts ??? Gert Gremmen - Openstreetmap.nl (alias: cetest) Before printing, think about the environment. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Intriguing artifacts in GeoEye data
So, you are saying that the post-earthquake photographs show the buildings 50 meters from where the pre-earthquake photographs show them, but there is no difference in the location or appearance of the terrain? Unless the buildings in question are on wheels, and might have rolled to their new location, it seems unlikely that a landslide strong enough to displace buildings by 50 meters would leave no visible traces other than displaced buildings. --Original Message-- From: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen To: Marcus Wolschon To: John Eldredge Cc: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org Cc: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list Subject: RE: [OSM-talk] Intriguing artifacts in GeoEye data Sent: Jan 18, 2010 3:01 PM This IS a picture ! Not drawn ! It coincides with a aftershock location Gert -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: Marcus Wolschon [mailto:marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com] Verzonden: maandag 18 januari 2010 21:56 Aan: j...@jfeldredge.com CC: ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen; talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org; OpenStreetMap talk mailing list Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk] Intriguing artifacts in GeoEye data Sounds like buildings drawn precisely from high-res but poorly georeferences aerial photos. Looking at a sat-image you don´t know if not all of that photo is 50 or 200 meters off unless you are on the ground to compare. On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 4:51 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: If only man-made artifacts are displaced, but not the terrain, that must be a mapping error. An actual earthquake land-shift would have displaced the terrain, and moved buildings and other artifacts along with the land. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Whereami not working on nokia 5800 MX
Do you have any other third-party applications on the phone, that you could use to check if the GPS works with them? I know that the default setting on my phone (a BlackBerry Storm) is to have the GPS turned off unless calling 911 (emergency services). --Original Message-- From: Pelle Svensson Sender: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org To: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list Subject: [OSM-talk] Whereami not working on nokia 5800 MX Sent: Jan 22, 2010 11:22 AM I can't get whereami Map application make use of the internal GPS in my NOKIA 5800 XpressMusic It start fine but at page LatLon/Menu/Connect it only list Bluetooth devices. How can I start up the internal GPS and connect it to whereami? whereami version: v0.14a (26th Aug 2009) S60v3 whereami home page: http://www.symbianos.org/admin.php?nav=projectsn=47 Nokia 5800 MX version: V 31.0.101 Also is there a forum for developer of whereami /Pelle _ Hitta kärleken i vinter! http://dejting.se.msn.com/channel/index.aspx?trackingid=1002952 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] If you want to help with OSM, and dont know what to do, help out with the Kosovo and Albania project
Before you join streets that end near each other, I would recommend making sure that the streets actually connect to each other. Streets sometimes have barriers, or two disconnected segments, as a means of making sure that a particular street segment is used only within a particular neighborhood, not as a through route. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] If you want to help with OSM,and dont know what to do,help out with the Kosovo and Albania project From :jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com Date :Mon Feb 01 05:16:05 America/Chicago 2010 Todos: * don't overwrite existing streets. * run the validator, merge street segments * join streets that end near each other. * don't upload points that are not connected. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Way out west
It would certainly make sense to me to have the land cover and the land use as separate tags, not dependent upon each other. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] Way out west From :mailto:g...@ir.bbn.com Date :Sun Feb 07 21:27:26 America/Chicago 2010 I have been noticing this. My theory, not yet confirmed by actually looking at the data, is that this is due to tags on polygons from the massgis open space or similar import. I think there are parcels that have tags like landuse=reservoir, and this means that those parcels are used for reservoir protection, and then there is an actual reservoir inside somewhere. I am not currently thinking there is a rendering bug, but a data bug, and probably a bot edit will be in order to fix this up. There's a similar, more complicated situation. In this case I've been there and the aerial imagery is definitely accurate. http://tools.geofabrik.de/mc/?mt0=mapnikmt1=googlehybridlon=-71.26785lat=42.41243zoom=14 There's a further, harder, issue lurking which is that we have landuse, natural, and leisure=recreation_ground, and these are all not orthogonal and kind of messy. There are several separate issues: the legal status and broad use of a parcel use of specific sub-parcel areas the land cover (trees, open, water) I think it would be useful to have landuse and landcover be separate. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Two different ways with the same nodes?
Another common circumstance is if you have two highways that pass through the same town (for example, one runs nominally southeast to northwest, the other runs nominally southwest to northeast). They may well both include the same street that runs west to east, which would be marked as part of both highways for routing purposes, as well as being marked by the street name as well. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: ed...@billiau.net Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 08:57:05 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Two different ways with the same nodes? Hi, Stefan Pflumm wrote: this ways are all highways. It surely is unusual for two highways sharing the same nodes, and I cannot think of an example where this would make sense. But that doesn't mean there is none; can you give an example? Bye Frederik Double-decker bridge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] fwd: Two thirds of mobile users want driving ANDwalking navigation
Frequently you can't get a position fix at all, if the building has much metal in its structure. I can't get a position fix from inside my house unless I am near a south-facing window, probably due to a metallic-foil vapor barrier in the attic. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Steve Doerr steve.do...@blueyonder.co.uk Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:43:18 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] fwd: Two thirds of mobile users want driving AND walking navigation Roy Wallace wrote: On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 7:10 PM, James Stewart j.k.stew...@ed.ac.uk wrote: and micro maps of destinations such as airports and shopping malls I think this is quite important, and can be one of the strengths of OSM. e.g. Plenty of POI's waiting to be mapped here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-27.66214lon=153.04129zoom=17layers=B000FTF How accurate are GPS receivers inside buildings? -- Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] fwd: Two thirds of mobile users wantdriving ANDwalking navigation
In the case of metal, even a thin film or mesh can block RF signals if any openings are smaller than the wavelength of the signal. Look up Faraday cage. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:46:21 To: John Smithdeltafoxtrot...@gmail.com Cc: OpenStreetMap talk mailing listtalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] fwd: Two thirds of mobile users want drivingANDwalking navigation John Smith wrote: On 17 February 2010 01:40, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: Frequently you can't get a position fix at all, if the building has much metal in its structure. I can't get a position fix from inside my house unless I am near a south-facing window, probably due to a metallic-foil vapor barrier in the attic. It has little to do with the material it's made of, it's all about how much mass an object has, the more mass the more it will absorb RF. Is this correct? I assumed the reason I had trouble getting reception on board trains because of what their roofs were screened with. I can't believe they'd put much mass up there. Cheers Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept
Even within your own time zone, IRC only allows you to communicate with people who are online right now, not someone who might log in an hour from now. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 15:29:24 Cc: Talk Openstreetmaptalk@openstreetmap.org; dev listd...@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] OSM front page design concept Sam Vekemans wrote: Many have abandoned this talk@ list because IRC is more efficient. Only if you want to talk to people either in your own time zone or are night workers. Talk@ communicates ideas with all people all over the globe. Cheers Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Help! Changeset reverted without explanation
Nathan Edgars II wrote: Lar Kiesel wrote: I was the culprit who did the user lkrevert revert to user NE2 change set of Columbia, SC, US. Thank you for finally coming forward and explaining. The reasons for the revert was because NE2 had changed many segments of SC state highway ref tags from “SC xx” to “xx” that I had added. This is counter to what the US highway wiki states, and there are good reasons for keeping the “SC” in SC , which I don't want to get into here. I was not offered any explanation why my edits were changed. The wiki is so self-contradictory that I'm sure it does state that in one place, and the opposite in another place. Every time I've tried to get a discussion going on improving this, there's been no interest. I believe I only changed those routes I was making other changes to. (By the way, I omit the state for the same reason we don't see UK A1 - it's clear what's meant by a simple alphanumeric designation.) Numbered highways are used in the USA for Federal highways (with a US prefix), State highways (prefixed by the state abbreviation), and some rural County roads (usually prefixed by the word County, rather than the name of the county). If you tag a roadway with only the suffix, it isn't obvious which one of these is meant. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Help! Changeset reverted without explanation
However, a given administrative area may well contain country-level, state-level, and county roads. If a given road is tagged with only a number, what indicates which one of these is meant? Also, it is not unusual for a stretch of physical roadway to be considered part of both a country-level road and a state-level road, etc. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 03:30:46 To: Mike Nnice...@att.net Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Help! Changeset reverted without explanation On 1 March 2010 03:17, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote: Is there a good argument to omitting the state abbreviation from the ref? Will the end result of changing to just a number be usable by the Highway Shields project? The common reference County road 49 comes to You can use admin boundaries to derive country, state, and county information. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] coastline within a park
On a related issue, since a way that forms a closed loop is interpreted as the boundary of an area rather than as a way, how does one map a road or trail that forms a closed loop? --Original Message-- From: Robin Paulson Sender: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org To: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list Subject: [OSM-talk] coastline within a park Sent: Mar 5, 2010 1:17 AM i'm after some advice. i know this is potentially tagging for the renderer, but still i've recently mapped a park which contains a basin. when the tiles render, the whole area, including the water, renders green. how would i tag this so the renderer understands the water bit should be treated as water, and rendered blue? cheers http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-36.90445lon=174.85045zoom=16layers=B000FTF ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC -(amenity=ice_cream)
The dine-in vs. takeaway distinction can be a bit blurred. I have seen some small ice-cream establishments that seem to be about half dine-in and half carry-out. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Giacomo Boschi gwil...@email.it Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2010 16:36:43 To: Openstreetmap talktalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (amenity=ice_cream) Martin Koppenhoefer ha scritto: It depends what and how they sell. It *always* depends! :-) If they sell hot dog, burgers or kebab, I'd tag it fast food (or maybe in special cases restaurant). If they sell pizza, it depends what kind of pizza (sliced pizza mainly for taking away would be fast food, while round ones in restaurant-like atmosphere would IMHO be restaurant, I meant the former. I was thinking about all those sellers of take-away food. This category contains the usual ice_cream shop. Generally I agree with everything that Greg Troxel stated above: the situation is almost the same in Europe. [me scratches head] You'd tag them as fast_food, but Greg seems to think otherwise... -- Giacomo Boschi http://gwilbor.wordpress.com/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC -(amenity=ice_cream)
Actually, the theoretical situation you described (food to be either eaten on the premises or carried out, but alcohol for on-premises consumption only) is the actual situation for restaurants here in Nashville, Tennessee, USA. If a restaurant allows alcoholic beverages to be taken off-premises, the restaurant will lose its license to sell alcohol. This is intended to make it harder for adults to buy beer or liquor on behalf of under-age drinkers. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2010 04:40:38 To: Pierenpier...@gmail.com Cc: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org; OpenStreetMap talk mailing listtalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC -(amenity=ice_cream) 2010/3/6 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: I like the food: prefix, just in case someone could interpret takeaway=yes for something else like the furnitures, dishes or the waitress ;-) I know that it sounds a little bit redundant to repeat the prefix, but in the end it will IMHO make things easier, because sooner or later there will be overlapping features with the need to specify - or several features with different attributes and it will not be clear which one is for which feature (already happening right now). E.g. there could be a restaurant which at the same time sells ice_cream to take away but beer just for consumation inhouse (e.g. for legal reasons). cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for walkers / hikers - getting it going!
So mtb:scale=5 would be a vertical cliff? -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Mike N. nice...@att.net Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 22:51:00 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] OSM for walkers / hikers - getting it going! (And similarly, how to distinguish between a bike path and a mountain bike track). I added mtb:scale to mountain bike tracks. But around here, even the steepest, roughest terrain is only 1 or 2 out of a scale of 5. I think mtb:scale=3 is something like leaping off 1 meter boulders g (Only slightly exaggerating). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Post code areas
In the USA, postal-code (Zip code) boundaries don't necessarily correspond to other administrative boundaries, and are frequently adjusted by the Post Office to balance out the load on different local post offices. Also, real-estate developers sometimes get the Post Office to shift a Zip-code boundary so that a particular street or neighborhood will be in a more-prestigious Zip code. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 21:17:45 To: Frederik Rammfrede...@remote.org Cc: OSMtalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Post code areas On 1 April 2010 21:13, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 1 April 2010 20:54, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hm. I'm somewhat reluctant to tag a post code boundary an administrative boundary. Our postal service is on its way to being a private enterprise now. It was like that before I came along, I don't know how much this was discussed before hand, I've just been adding missing postcodes etc. Forgot to mention that postcode boundaries share ways with suburb and even state boundaries so it can be useful in that respect... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing closedstreetmap.org
Happy April Fool's Day to you! --Original Message-- From: SteveC Sender: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org To: p...@opengeodata.posterous.com To: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list To: geowank...@geowanking.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Announcing closedstreetmap.org Sent: Apr 1, 2010 10:33 AM Google, Waze and OSMF have partnered on a common initiative to explore crowd-sourced mapping solutions. Yes, this is real. See: www.closedstreetmap.org for the full press release. Contact me if you want to be involved. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Post code areas
In the USA, also, postal codes in low-population areas tend to be much larger than those in densely-populated areas. In addition, we have both five-digit postal codes and nine-digit postal codes; the latter divide up the five-digit zones into sub-zones, typically containing only a few buildings each. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 19:31:41 To: Brian Quinionopenstreet...@brian.quinion.co.uk Cc: OSMtalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Post code areas Hi, Brian Quinion wrote: boundary=street_postal_code | district_postal_code | city_postal_code street_postal_code = 425253 I'm having difficulties in grasping this concept. In Germany we have 5-digit post codes, and the associated regions vary in size depending on how densely populated an area is. So a five-digit code might sometimes encompass a whole region, sometimes a town, sometimes just a quarter. That doesn't technically make them different kinds of post codes, and any labeling like street/district/city would be purely the mapper's guess. Are there really countries where if you ask someone for their post code they will reply do you mean my street post code or my district post code? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Post code areas
I don't know if the process is still going on, but a couple of years ago I read about a small Mexican town, just south of the US/Mexico border, that was actually getting its mail through the US Postal Service, as well as all road access being via the USA. This was in a stretch where the border was along the Rio Grande River. The river shifted from the channel north of the town to another channel south of town, washing out the road that had led to the Mexican town. The national border still runs along the old river bed north of town. --Original Message-- From: Liz Sender: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org To: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Post code areas Sent: Apr 5, 2010 10:11 PM On Fri, 2 Apr 2010, John Smith wrote: I meant about street/town/city/county... since some postcodes are half a state in size... but never smaller than a suburb... We also have some Au postcodes which are whatever is left over, and the link is that they are serviced from the same main sorting centre. These cross State boundaries if that is the way the mail is dispatched. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] River boundaries , not Post code areas
As I mentioned in my real-life case of the Rio Grande changing channels, a larger shift in a river's course can leave dry ground, that had formerly been on one side of the river, now on the other side of the river. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Gregory nomoregra...@googlemail.com Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 22:17:33 To: John Smithdeltafoxtrot...@gmail.com Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] River boundaries , not Post code areas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] River boundaries , not Post code areas
Having the river move doesn't necessarily move an boundary that had run along the river. It depends upon how the boundary is defined. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Igor Brejc igor.br...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 09:29:53 To: John Smithdeltafoxtrot...@gmail.com Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] River boundaries , not Post code areas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Trolley)
He is referring to what Americans call shopping carts. --Original Message-- From: Alex S. Sender: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org To: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Trolley) Sent: Apr 25, 2010 4:34 PM Adrien Pavie wrote: The tag is for know if a shop has trolleys. All the details are in the wiki. Thanks in advance for comments. Why would shops have light-rail trains? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Trolley)
In the USA, such shopping carts are normally free; I don't recall ever seeing any that required a deposit. On the other hand, it is common to see baby strollers in shopping malls that require a monetary deposit in order to unlock them from a rack, and I have seen a few people use them as shopping carts. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Ken Guest k...@linux.ie Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 10:57:09 To: Kev js1982o...@kevswindells.eu Cc: OSM - Talk GBtalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Trolley) oh yes please. almost all trolleys I've encountered around home require 1 euro coins - except the ones at Aldi where 2 euro coins are required. Perhaps then I can expand on my script (and someone can update openstreetbrowser) to filter stores by what denomination of coin is required for using their trolleys? What can we do to make this a reality? :D thanks! Ken On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 6:57 AM, Kev js1982 o...@kevswindells.eu wrote: With regards to the fee how would you tag the majority of uk supermarkets where the trolleys accept both £1 and €1 coins? This seams to be pretty standard on all trolleys introduced since approx 1998. On 4/26/10, Gregory nomoregra...@googlemail.com wrote: On 26 April 2010 11:45, Adrien Pavie dr...@laposte.net wrote: Don't forget that we already use the scheme vehicle=yes/no/designated/maybe/... to express access restrictions for modes of transport - so cart=no actually means no shopping cart riding allowed in here ;-) -Martin Ok, I will change it in the wiki, shop:cart=true/false and the other tags/propositions. But it could be funny create a roadsign No shopping carts =P A lot of supermarkets have a system to stop you taking trolleys/carts home (sometimes instead of a charge) so they have a sign like No carts beyond this line, cart will stop suddenly. You could use the fee tag. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:fee http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:feebut on the shop=* node that seems strange (an entry fee to a shop?) so I would suggest shop:cart:fee=yes/no (or cart:fee=yes/no) and link to the fee page. I would like to know what coin I need for the trolleys, and I think the fee tag is supposed to allow this with something like fee=0.50 (assumes local currency!), and I think we can assume you usually have just one coin needed. I don't see a need for this information to be rendered on the map, but someone could make an application of providing the information at the side (along with opening_hours etc) when you click the shop or in a list of search results for shops near you. OSM isn't all about 'the' map. -- Gregory o...@livingwithdragons.com http://www.livingwithdragons.com -- Sent from my mobile device ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- http://blogs.linux.ie/kenguest/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Trolley)
Perhaps amenity=luggage_trolley for airport or train station use? In American usage, trolley is a synonym for trolley car, as in street railways. So, you are likely to see American mappers using amenity=trolley for streetcar stops. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Adrien Pavie dr...@laposte.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 15:12:43 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Trolley) Pieren wrote : Besides the question of tagging such things, OSM has a long tradition of using the english words for the tags, not the US. This is because the project has been founded there. I don't see why we should change now because you read one complain from Australia and two from US... It may be a tradition, but it's not a reason for reject directly the proposed name, it could be discuted before ^^ Btw amenity=shopping_trolley is not so bad. This tag may be used for the trolleys parking, not as a tag in complement for shops or airports. And i think shopping_ is not adapted for be use with an airport, but why not amenity=trolley. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Trolley)
I agree that cart=yes would probably be the best solution. That way, you avoid the confusion between different regional dialects, and the context would let you know whether a shopping cart, luggage cart, or whatever was meant. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Adrien Pavie dr...@laposte.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 17:43:00 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Trolley) John F. Eldredge wrote : Speaking as an American, I think that amenity=shopping_trolley would be sufficient to tell people that we aren't talking about trolley cars (street railways), and it wouldn't be hard to learn the meaning of shopping trolley. So, a tag like shop:trolley=yes/no could be good for all ? An english word, with shop: to not be confused, and not too long, it may be good ^^' Or there's always simply cart=yes/no, cart is short, english and american I think, and adapted for airports, shops and other places where may have trolley/shopping carts. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC -(Trolley)
Well, we could always use handcart, rather than cart, so as to specify that we don't mean the horse-drawn variety. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Pieren pier...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 20:43:09 To: Tag discussion, strategy and related toolstagg...@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (Trolley) ___ Tagging mailing list tagg...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC -(Trolley)
English has a proverbial expression, going to hell in a handbasket, meaning that things are going wrong at a rapid pace. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Adrien Pavie dr...@laposte.net Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 22:09:53 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC -(Trolley) John F. Eldredge wrote: Well, we could always use handcart, rather than cart, so as to specify that we don't mean the horse-drawn variety. When it's not tramways or electric trains, it's horses x) I see in my dictionnary french-english (I didn't have an english dictionnary with definitions) and handcart seems to be more like wheelbarrow than trolley. Richard wrote : And then I suggest we go to hell in it[1]. [...] [1] otherwise known as the tagging@ list Why in hell with the tagging list ? Oo ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open
In English usage, a dwelling is a residence. So, a farmhouse would be an isolated dwelling; a building not used as a residence, such as a restaurant or train station, would be an isolated building, but not an isolated dwelling. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 19:13:32 To: m...@koppenhoefer.com Cc: osmtalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 2:39 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer I agree to this, but the name isolated_dwelling was the translation I finally found (neither in wikipedia nor in the dictionary) for the German scientific term Einzelsiedlung, which describes the smallest entity of human settlements (below hamlets). I discourage the use of farm as this is about usage and not about the size. Examples for place=isolated_dwelling that are not farms are mills, forester's houses, small isolated trainstations, restaurants or houses. Of course most isolated dwellings (at least in Germany) are indeed farms. Sub-hamlet? Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open
Since the English language defines a dwelling as a place where someone dwells, I suspect that the UK government is using the term to mean structures used as residences. The proposed tag, on the other hand, would classify any isolated building as an isolated_dwelling, even if it isn't a dwelling. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 5 May 2010 16:59:57 To: osmtalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Voting for place=isolated_dwelling is open 2010/5/5 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: - Zitierten Text anzeigen - 2010/5/5 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: Sub-hamlet? http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=subhamletmeta=aq=faqi=aql=oq=gs_rfai= 9,600 hits http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=%22isolated+dwelling%22aq=faqi=aql=oq=gs_rfai= 39,900 hits btw, the UK government seems to use this term as well: http://www.dcsf.gov.uk/schoolorg/faqs.cfm?id=114 __ Rural Schools ... What does Edubase record as the rural/urban classifications? Q : What does Edubase record as the rural/urban classifications? Edubase (www.edubase.gov.uk) records the rural/urban classifications as follows: The two Urban values are: · Urban 10k - sparse ·Urban 10k - less sparse The six other values are classified as Rural: ·Town and Fringe - sparse ·Village - sparse ·Hamlet and Isolated Dwelling - sparse ·Town and Fringe - less sparse ·Village - less sparse ·Hamlet and Isolated Dwelling - less sparse __ cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Quarry or construction?
Of course, a large water-filled hole, without vehicles around it, describes both an inactive quarry and an inactive large-scale building site. Given the current state of the world's economy, there are a certain number of the latter around, because the developer went broke. --Original Message-- From: Liz Sender: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org To: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Quarry or construction? Sent: May 14, 2010 4:58 AM On Fri, 14 May 2010, Steve Bennett wrote: Can someone offer some tips on how to distinguish a quarry from a construction site? They seem to look pretty similar from the air - lots of dirt and vehicle tracks, sometimes piles of dirt. Eg: http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-37.946025,145.093174z=16t=hnmd=20100416 (Note, I'm looking for general tips, not a determination on that single instance) Steve curved vehicle tracks suggest quarry presence of straight lines which suggest buildings under construction area with large pooled water with copper-ish discolouration suggests quarry i'd check council minutes for the area and see if you can use a search engine to find what this land is used for Even if you get he street names off another map. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Extra zoom level needed?
One thing that has frustrated me with the current tiling system is that most POIs are only visible if you zoom in all the way, and can only see an area 50 meters or so across. This rather limits their usefulness. It would also help if you could click on a POI, or hover your mouse above it, and see the values of more tags. A restaurant POI, for example, could tell you the hours it is open and what sort of food it serves, assuming these tags had been set. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Eric Marsden eric.mars...@free.fr Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 22:15:10 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Extra zoom level needed? js == John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com writes: js I wonder how consistent you could get the look and feel between the 2 js systems, otherwise it might cause more confusion than anything. This would require work, yes. But even the Mapnik rendering has discontinuities between zoom levels: for instance between z8 (no landuse rendering) and z9 (landuses such as forest are rendered) there is a significant step (very visible in France for instance, where we have good landuse data imported from CLC). -- Eric Marsden ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Questions regarding the mapping of hiking trails
Also, the name Van Hoevenburg Trail doesn't necessarily mean that it passes through the Van Hoevenburg Property. That might be the name of the current land-owner, the name of a former land-owner, or simply the name of some notable person whom the trail was named after. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Liz ed...@billiau.net Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 11:20:20 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Questions regarding the mapping of hiking trails On Sun, 30 May 2010, Sami Dalouche wrote: Hi, I've started contributing hiking data in the ADK, NY. However, I have a few questions : Let's take the following area, for instance : http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=44.1458988189697lon=-73.9613342285156zo om=13 1/ There is a trail called Van Hoevenberg Trail. Am I supposed to add a name=Van Hoevenberg property, or name=Van Hoevenberg Trail one ? name = Van Hoevenberg Trail 2/ Now, let's say that Van hoevenberg trail were continuing after the intersection. Would I be supposed to just repeat the name=Van Hoevenberg Trail property, or am I supposed to do something smarter ? I read stuff about relations, but I am unsure on whether this applies to this... At first, just add name=Van Hoevenberg Trail. A relation could be used here, and can be done later. For a small trail it would be overkill 3/ Anything else to suggest ? Enjoy mapping thanks ! Sami Dalouche ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] On the ground rule on the wiki
It is not unusual for roads to have signage for both the local name and also an official route name (sometimes multiple route names). -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 18:48:12 To: Anthonyo...@inbox.org Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] On the ground rule on the wiki On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: In any case, more important than the etymology of the phrase map what's on the ground is what it means and whether or not it's good advice. In terms of its use in excluding verifiable information I think it is quite problematic. When a route isn't written on the ground that's exactly when it's most useful to have it identified in a map. Not really; maps are primarily used for navigation, whether computer-routed or human-read. If the map shows that Long Street is the A1889, someone using the map will be looking for the A1889. But if Long Street is not marked on the ground as the A1889, that designation is about as relevant as the fact that it was once the route of the A1. In other words, if we know for sure that Long Street is officially the A1889, it might make sense as a separate ref_unmarked=A1889 tag, like old_ref=A1, but using the same tagging for signed and unsigned routes helps nobody. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=footway or highway=track for peds only ongravel
You also have the case where vehicular access is limited to official vehicles, such as emergency vehicles and vehicles used to transport materials for maintaining the pathway, but the general public is only allowed to use the path on foot. I know of some hiking trails where this is the case, as well as some (in the same nature preserve) that are so narrow and steep that they are passable only on foot. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Mrtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 15:42:28 To: Claudiusclaudiu...@gmx.de Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Highway=footway or highway=track for peds only on gravel 2010/5/31 Claudius claudiu...@gmx.de: highway=track is for ways that are wide enough to be *potentially* used by a 4 wheel vehicle. +1 If it's that wide and has tracks than you should tag it liek that. If legally only pedestrians are allowed add vehicle=no. actually the case which is IMHO more difficult to decide is when the access is physically restricted by heavy obstacles (massive rock pieces, etc.). I tend not to use track in these cases nonetheless the width would fit, but often you cannot check all possible ways to go to this specific point (e.g. it could be that the road is blocked there by a heavy stone block but you could arrive from the other side). cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] On the ground rule on the wiki
This brings up another question. On the tagging list, there is currently a discussion of whether or not to tag areas that have frequent traffic jams. If something is only verifiable part of the time, such as having traffic jams or being the site of a market on the weekends, does it count as verifiable on the ground? -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Anthony o...@inbox.org Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 11:59:28 To: Frederik Rammfrede...@remote.org Cc: Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com; talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] On the ground rule on the wiki ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] On the ground rule on the wiki
Well, some people in the traffic-jam discussion seem to be taking the viewpoint that if something is not verifiable by people in other geographical locations, without actually visiting the location under discussion, then it should not be classified as being verifiable at all. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 18:29:34 To: j...@jfeldredge.com Cc: OpenStreetMap talk mailing listtalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] On the ground rule on the wiki 2010/5/31 John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com: This brings up another question. On the tagging list, there is currently a discussion of whether or not to tag areas that have frequent traffic jams. If something is only verifiable part of the time, such as having traffic jams or being the site of a market on the weekends, does it count as verifiable on the ground? Is there currently any reason to talk about this? IMHO OSM is a project that should be also fun to contribute and to use. If it becomes a bureaucratic hazzle like the German Wikipedia people will leave - at least I will probably. I guess you don't know this, but in the German Wikipedia there are actually groups of people enjoying deleting articles of others which cover topics that are either not relevant or not elaborate enough. All this is of course done in a strictly democratic way, there are Kill lists, votings and so on. I would be really sad to see OSM end in endless discussions about relevance, leading to many mappers leave the ship. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] Software goes on, brain goes off...
I would say that her odds of winning the damages, or, for that matter, of having a court agree to hear the case at all, are pretty low. If you are using a map of any sort, you are still expected to use common sense as well. If a map tells you to drive through a road that turns out to be closed for repairs, or is one-way in the wrong direction, that doesn't give you an excuse to drive through the road anyway. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 09:53:01 To: nicholas.g.lawre...@tmr.qld.gov.au Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org; talk...@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] Software goes on, brain goes off... On 1 June 2010 09:39, nicholas.g.lawre...@tmr.qld.gov.au wrote: Another article on the same topic, http://searchengineland.com/woman-follows-google-maps-walking-directions-gets-hit-sues-43212 I wonder if she's eligible for an honourable mention from the darwin awards? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Software goes on, brain goes off...
I agree that foot_unsafe=yes would probably be a good compromise, as it would say, yes, you can go this way, but it is risky.. This would be particularly suitable for routes that are riskier under some conditions than others, such as roads with narrow shoulders, risky to walk on after dark. --Original Message-- From: John Smith Sender: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org To: Nathan Edgars II Cc: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Software goes on, brain goes off... Sent: Jun 2, 2010 4:10 AM On 2 June 2010 18:49, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: As others have said, foot=no when pedestrians are legally allowed is a I was one of them if you check my replies. bad idea. As long as you walk against traffic, drivers will usually see you, and you can easily see and get out of the way of any vehicles Just because they can see you doesn't make it a good idea to walk along there, as I pointed out before there isn't a single criteria that deems something safe or unsafe, it's usually a combination of factors. Perhaps the best way to think of this is foot_unsafe=yes if it is likely to be a bad idea... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Software goes on, brain goes off...
Good suggestion. --Original Message-- From: John Smith To: John Eldredge Cc: OpenStreetMap talk mailing list Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Software goes on, brain goes off... Sent: Jun 2, 2010 7:19 AM On 2 June 2010 22:06, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: I agree that foot_unsafe=yes would probably be a good compromise, as it would say, yes, you can go this way, but it is risky.. This would be particularly suitable for routes that are riskier under some conditions than others, such as roads with narrow shoulders, risky to walk on after dark. You could extend it a little and explain more specifically: unsafe:foot=narrow/fast_traffic/muggers/etc -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How do you tag a traffic signal that's also amotorway junction?
Nashville, Tennessee, USA has a ring road that is an odd cross between a motorway and an ordinary street. Portions of Briley Parkway are a limited-access motorway, with high speeds and on/off ramps rather than intersections; other portions are ordinary surface streets, with traffic lights, and both residential and commercial driveways opening directly into the Parkway. As you loop around the city, it changes back and forth between the two forms. To further confuse matters, when it was constructed by joining together several existing streets, some of the streets kept their original names and some didn't. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Richard Weait rich...@weait.com Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 18:45:25 To: Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] How do you tag a traffic signal that's also a motorway junction? On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: highway=motorway_junction with ref=[number] is used whenever there's an exit/junction number, whether or not it's actually on a motorway. But there are some numbered exits that are right at traffic signals, which should be tagged highway=traffic_signals. Examples include http://alpsroads.net/roads/nj/gsp/n10.jpg in south New Jersey (this one has a small separated ramp but another one doesn't), http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NY_9A_north_exit_5.jpg in New York City, and http://gailmommers.50megs.com/pictmission/ny-17-exit-98.htm in upstate New York. How should these be tagged? highway=motorway_junction;traffic_signals? Well it can't be highway=motorway_junction because motorways don't have level crossings, right? This image illustrates your question perfectly. http://alpsroads.net/roads/nj/gsp/n10.jpg Thank you for including it. If this were a motorway_junction (it isn't) the exit number would be in the ref tag on the exit node, so go with that. I would tag the ways as usual, highway=secondary or whatever is appropriate here. highway=traffic_signals ref=10B If that is indeed a flare for the right turn to 657 Eastbound, I might mark the first node of the flare with the ref=10B ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping the spill
Given that the spill is constantly expanding, mapping it would become a full-time job if you wanted the information to be anywhere close to up-to-date. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 19:50:26 To: Talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Mapping the spill Hi, is anyone mapping the spill, showing the area? Does anyone know of Public Domain imagery available? The area is no longer a nature preserve, but an 'industrial area'. Or 'liquid_waste' or something. Thanks, Sam -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blogs: http://acrosscanadatrails.posterous.com/ http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans IRC: irc://irc.oftc.net #osm-ca Canadian OSM channel (an open chat room) @Acrosscanadatrails ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Q: Is OSM interested in neighborhood and regional boundaries for L.A.?
This sounds like a good compromise to me, as most people will have a general agreement of where a given neighborhood is located, but differ about where the boundaries are located. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 08:46:09 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Q: Is OSM interested in neighborhood and r egional boundaries for L.A.? A compromose would be to add the centre of each neighbourhood (as locality=place or similar) but not the exact boundaries. -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Q: Is OSM interested in neighborhood and regionalboundaries for L.A.?
Nashville, Tennessee, where I live, is much the same way. In the last sixty years, Nashville has gone from being a city perhaps three or four miles across to being a metro area perhaps twenty-five miles across, swallowing up numerous smaller communities and subdivisions in the process. Those areas that have retained some degree of local government have formal boundaries, but there are disagreements about where one unincorporated area shades into another. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Richard Weait rich...@weait.com Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:23:12 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Q: Is OSM interested in neighborhood and regional boundaries for L.A.? On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 9:13 AM, Ben Welsh ben.we...@gmail.com wrote: At the risk of over complicating things, let me give a little more info. LA County is a fragmented place with many different cities and unincorporated areas puzzled together. Our neighborhoods are in fact three different types of areas consolidated. [ ... ] Dear Ben, It must have been great fun to participate in this project. I see that you and the Los Angeles Times understand the problems related to crowd sourcing neighborhood boundaries perfectly. See You gotta stop is somewhere http://www.latimes.com/includes/projects/img/thumb-westside-300x100.png Also this neighborhood map for Tarzana is wonderful. http://projects.latimes.com/mapping-la/neighborhoods/comments/11501/ Your consultation with the community in Los Angeles (650 user-generated maps, 100 revisions) sounds like you have substantial interest and perhaps even consensus locally. I think that's wonderful. Presuming that the participation in your project is likely to reduce border disagreements, I think it would be a nice addition to OSM. I notice that you publish your data as cc-nc-sa. To include it in OSM you would have to agree to allow OSM to publish it as cc-by-sa and then ODbL after the license upgrade. Of course you would lose the explicit Los Angeles Times credit as well since OSM expects a simplified Maps and Data CCBYSA OpenStreetMap (and Contributors) And again, I think it is important to get feedback from others in the Los Angeles OSM community. Have a look over at talk-us. They might have something similar in the works. I'm sure you find the conjecture by all of us seagulls interesting but we all know that one active local mapper on the ground is better than a self-important expert from Toronto. ;-) Best regards, Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Removing ways in Potlatch
While updating the streets in my neighborhood (mostly correcting misaligned TIGER imports to match Yahoo's aerial views), I found a short street that needs to be removed from the map. It has been closed to traffic for decades, and the pavement has now been removed and replaced by a commercial real-estate development. Potlatch will let me reposition or lengthen the street, but won't let me remove the street. How can I remove this short and no-longer-existing street using Potlatch? -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Removing ways in Potlatch
Also, if only certain parts of a roadway are out of sync between the map and current-day reality, you can't always be sure whether this represents the road having been rerouted (to make a curve less sharp, for instance), or whether this simply represents an error on the part of the original mapper. I have also seen cases where the official map of an area shows a roadway, or even minor bridge, that had been planned but never was built. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com Sender: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:32:00 To: Lester Caineles...@lsces.co.uk Cc: OSM Talktalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Removing ways in Potlatch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Licence of Soviet military topographic maps
When people in one country use servers in another country, the laws affecting those users may not be the same as those affecting the servers themselves. For example, some works are public-domain in Australia, but still in copyright in the USA. So, it is legal for those works to be on the Gutenberg Australia web site, without it being legal for users in the USA to download those works. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com Sender: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 12:22:56 To: Kirill Bestoujevbestou...@gmail.com Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Licence of Soviet military topographic maps ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tsunami warning siren?
I think the bell is more likely a street light in a bell-shaped reflector. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Milo van der Linden m...@dogodigi.net Sender: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 13:53:23 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Tsunami warning siren? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona
I agree about the importance of being able to find a location via its postal address. One of the most frequent reasons for looking up a location on an online map is so you can find out where on a long street a particular address is located. This is one of the chief advantages that an online map has over a paper map. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Oliver \(skobbler\) osm.oliver.ku...@gmx.de Sender: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 01:22:01 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona I thought one of the goals was to have OSM used more widely? This is the right type of question but you need to create an even more basic understanding: I haven't seen a common understanding of the definition of OSM's success. Where did you find the goal of a wider use? Wider use by I didn't find it anywhere, but what's the point in having the best maps in the world if no one uses them? If this is the case then I think it would be very important to push address referencing (more important than discussing a license change) as it is the natural confidence test: Can I find my home address on the map? So far, it is one of the weakest points as you normally don't find an address if you look for it by using a postal code or your house number. It works in a few large cities but that's it. If you can only zoom in to a specific place then you will use Google Maps the next time you are looking for specific address... And that is my whole point: I think it is much more important to distill the strategic goals out of the community's mind and then focus the efforts on a few selective initiates rather than having hundreds of parallel projects. Some people might want to achieve a wider use for humanitarian projects. Then address referencing won't help and a license change won't change either. There needs to be common understanding of the vision where OSM is seen in five years from now. Regards, Oliver -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Candidacy-AGM-Foundation-2010-Girona-tp522p5252794.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona
True, but paper maps are usually not printed at a scale where including street numbers are practical. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 23:36:58 To: j...@jfeldredge.com Cc: OpenStreetMap talk mailing listtalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] [Candidacy] AGM Foundation 2010 - Girona On 4 July 2010 23:00, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: I agree about the importance of being able to find a location via its postal address. One of the most frequent reasons for looking up a location on an online map is so you can find out where on a long street a particular address is located. This is one of the chief advantages that an online map has over a paper map. That's just a rendering issue, paper maps could just as easily print the street numbers, digital map data does have it's unique advantages though, like integration with positioning information. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why quality is more important than routing speed
Speaking of using routing as a verification tool reminds me of a Potlatch question. Recently, I have been using Potlatch, with the Yahoo aerial-photos background, to clean up some errors in data that originated with the TIGER import. According to the Potlatch documentation on the wiki, if I drag a node belonging to one way onto a node belonging to another way, the nodes in that segment of the second way should turn blue to show that the ways will be joined. In practice, however, this doesn't always happen, and I sometimes appear to end up with overlapping, but not joined, ways. What can I do to force the ways to be joined? -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com Sender: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 15:46:49 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Why quality is more important than routing speed Frederik Ramm wrote: Nic, Nic Roets wrote: There is a lot of talk around better algorithms (e.g. contraction hierarchies), distributed routing, stress tests etc. So I'm going to put in into perspective with a few calculations. For a 40km journey, Gosmore takes 50ms*. It's all a question of user experience. Of course if I want to plan a route it is not a big deal if I have to wait 50ms or even a few seconds. ... Quality is not just how many tags you support, although in a rich environment like OSM it is of course desirable to use as much information from the data as possible. That is an interesting line of argument and gets at the (usual) question of how much end user support we want to provide. I.e. do we want to build a routing service for anyone to use, or do we want to include routing on the main page as an important debugging tool to ensure high quality routing data for others to build upon. I can't answer that question and I don't know who could, but I suspect that (initially) focusing on integrating a router with the aim to use it as a debugging tool would be less contentious. In that setting, the question of how many tags you can support (and how frequent you can update the data) very much becomes the main question. So as long as OSMF can afford the resources to run it (and it appears as if it is at least in the correct order of magnitude) going for the option that is (more or less) available now and supports a large variety of relevant OSM tagging seems like a reasonable solution. Then improve things iteratively where there is demand. If the load does turn out to be too large, then one can try and reduce it by e.g. hideing it off the bottom of the screen as was done with the search box, or by e.g. only offering it to logged in users as it is only meant as a support for editing data. Kai -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Why-quality-is-more-important-than-routing-speed-tp5252052p5254398.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why quality is more important than routing speed
However, you can't be certain, without personally checking the street in question, whether the street really has no speed limit signs, or whether the person who added the street to the map simply failed to add the speed limit tag. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au Sender: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 10:06:55 To: Talk Openstreetmaptalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Why quality is more important than routing speed On Sun, 2010-07-04 at 19:44 -0400, Anthony wrote: On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 6:33 PM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jul 4, 2010 at 10:34 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: How do you use speed limit tags when only 5% of the roads are tagged with them? Think longer-term. Okay. How do you use speed limit tags when only 8% of the roads are tagged with them? Well, legally in Australia anyway, any road not sign-posted with a limit, has an implied limit of 50. It would be nice to have a layer like noname, which shows ways without speed limit defined, to fix the data for exactly this reason. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Area-type objects and ways along its boundaries
So, what happens in your region if the road planners decide to alter the position of part of a road, such as making a curve more gentle? Are the municipal borders then shifted so that they still match the roadway, or so they now differ from the road's location? -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Pieren pier...@gmail.com Sender: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 17:18:13 To: OSMtalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Area-type objects and ways along its boundaries ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] sotm2010 video stream?
At a guess, there may not be enough bandwidth available for video streaming. I have seen the results of trying to stream video over an overly-congested connection; the results are annoyingly jerky. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] sotm2010 video stream? From :mailto:pavithra...@gmail.com Date :Wed Jul 07 16:13:55 America/Chicago 2010 On 7 July 2010 04:09, Floris Looijesteijn o...@floris.nu wrote: yes, both tracks will be recorded. It would be nice to have video streaming . Anyways please update http://search.twitter.com/search?q=%23sotm10result_type=recent second by second :P Atleast we will have a live text stream ;) Regards, Pavithran -- pavithran sakamuri http://look-pavi.blogspot.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tag name vs operator
The usage of operator documented in the wiki is the opposite of the standard usage, at least in the food service business (I once worked for a food broker). The standard usage would be to say that a restaurant's name is Smithville Waffle House, for instance, it is a franchise of Waffle House, and it is operated by XYZ Food Services. The franchise name is the one you would most likely render on a map. The average consumer would have no reason to be interested in the operator's name unless they needed to talk to management about a problem of some sort. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] Tag name vs operator From :mailto:deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com Date :Mon Jul 12 16:31:18 America/Chicago 2010 On 13 July 2010 07:25, Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com wrote: Side note: John, Do you seriously check health certificates before tagging restaurants? I don't usually tag name, just operator, I just mentioned that to point out the name is easy to locate if people did want to tag it. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tag name vs operator
There is a franchise tag listed on the wiki. It is a proposed tag, not yet voted on. So, the name tag would have the name of this location of the business, the franchise tag (if present) would have the name of the chain, and operator would have the name of the company or individual operating this particular location. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] Tag name vs operator From :mailto:alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net Date :Mon Jul 12 17:51:04 America/Chicago 2010 At 2010-07-12 14:31, John Smith wrote: On 13 July 2010 07:25, Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com wrote: Side note: John, Do you seriously check health certificates before tagging restaurants? I don't usually tag name, just operator, I just mentioned that to point out the name is easy to locate if people did want to tag it. Is operator correct, though? Many well-known chains are franchises, where the actual operator is a company or individual that is named on the business license or health certificate. To use a (hopefully) internationally-known chain of sandwich shops, if you tag operator=Subway, you are saying that Subway operates the restaurant, which is incorrect. Subway rents use of their brand name and collective advertising for 12.5% of the gross sales, and may also act as a vendor for some or all of the supplies, but the owner/operator of the restaurant is someone else. -- Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tag name vs operator
So, if we continue to use operator to mean chain or franchise, then what tag do you propose should hold the name of the individual or company who operates the business, and who is referred to in non-OSM terminology as the operator? ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] Tag name vs operator From :mailto:ed...@billiau.net Date :Mon Jul 12 19:02:22 America/Chicago 2010 On Tue, 13 Jul 2010, Alan Mintz wrote: At 2010-07-12 14:35, John Smith wrote: On 13 July 2010 07:18, Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net wrote: I think operator has been mis-used. It appears in a lot of JOSM presets where I believe it is incorrect. This is an argument over the use of english as a language and tags that look like english words and how people interrupt them. While OSM certainly has some of these, I don't believe that is the case here. I believe the meaning of the word operator is clearly the same in both en-us and en-uk, and that using it as currently defined is completely incorrect. I agree with Alan. I had a lot of difficulty understanding what was meant by operator, now I just fill it in as if it were name of franchise or brand. It was not the best choice of English word to start with, but we are probably stuck with it. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] fact-based vote?
According to what was announced when the news about the proposed new license terms came out, any data that originated with someone who doesn't agree with the new license will be removed from the database, meaning that any subsequent edits to that data will be removed as well, even if the subsequent edits were done by people who agree to the new license. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] fact-based vote? From :mailto:ascho...@gmail.com Date :Sat Jul 17 13:07:09 America/Chicago 2010 On 17 Jul 2010, at 2:05 , Heiko Jacobs wrote: I cannot accept a process with loss of data. If there is a loss of data I will leave OSM. there is no loss of data! It has always been said that the old data will remain available under the old license. The only possibility to avoid loss of data (if process proposed isn't changed because of this discussions, I'm still hoping for this ...) is to (ab)use the licence change question as a vote, hoping that reaching the critical mass will fail. Using this vote it might be easyer because they want a really high of percentage of user accepting new licence. If my vote failed and licence is changing with loss of data, I leave the project including my data, because of combination of vote and licence change of my data … strategic voting is really wrong and stupid. playing this game by many will put the project on more risk for nothing. If you think Odbl is the better license vote for it or PD as a third choice. If you don't like the process of how data is converted what is considered minor edits and can still be relicensed without loss … then better raise your voice there. absolutely agree we need to work on a smooth process to minimize loss. There is no decision on this process there is no plan there are just many ideas. So let's make this switch or abandon it as fast as possible. No decision is the worst for OSM. personally I don't mind which of the 2 license we use but we need a clear statement where we go. this took already too long and holds back imports from non PD sources. Puts all consumers of OSM data at risk to have to back out at some time or go a very painful way to mix data from old planet with new Odbl for some time. If it is divided in two questions, the chance of avoiding licence change and lost of date will sink, because only 2/3 or similar is needed(?), the probability that I leave theproject arises, but my data will rest inside OSM … yes, the second question has never been asked, so why do you expect an answer. and again data is not lost. I am sure the OSMF has the same wish as you and I and will come up with a reasonable plan when the first is answered positively. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Summary of differences between old and new licenses
Is there a summary available, in layman's language, of the differences between the old license and the proposed new license? I am still a bit unclear on the net effects, other than a sizable amount of the data being moved from the OSM database to a different database. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What could we do to make this licences discussionmore inclusive?
This is a common insult, used to imply that the person in question is too inept to make it on their own. I am not certain where the basement portion of the stereotype comes from, unless it is to imply the person can't even get along their parents. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] What could we do to make this licences discussionmore inclusive? From :mailto:nerou...@gmail.com Date :Sun Jul 18 21:35:52 America/Chicago 2010 On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 10:22 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 July 2010 12:07, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: If this is how the OSMF board conducts themselves, perhaps it's best to give them as little power as possible over the data and its license. Just ignore the rants, some people are just venting frustration. I know how to vent frustration :) It seems to me that Steve's post is not just a harmless rant, but contains an implication, whether purposeful or not, that some mappers, namely stay-at-home sons (and daughters?), are less equal than others. Perhaps this should not merely be implied, but written out in the bylaws. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Placing a node at a known latitude/longitude
If you know the latitude and longitude of where you would like to create a POI in Potlatch, but can't locate the exact position in the Yahoo aerial view (due to tree cover), how can you create a POI at that known latitude and longitude? -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments
I have to admit that I am bad about not bothering to enter a comment, particularly if all I have been doing is fixing the alignment of streets to better conform to the Yahoo aerial view. I shall try to do better in the future. Also, I sometimes mark POIs with a cell phone app, BigTinCan Mapper, that offers only a preset list of POI types, with the only user-editable attribute being the name, and no provision for entering changeset comments. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] A plea for meaning ful changeset comments From :mailto:deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com Date :Fri Jul 30 06:35:39 America/Chicago 2010 On 30 July 2010 21:27, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org wrote: On Friday, July 30, 2010 04:48:03 pm Frederik Ramm wrote: Don't be fooled; the small changeset comment that you enter when uploading stuff will be read by many people. Done well, changeset comments are tremendously helpful. helpful reminder - my problem is that I put an entry like 'fine tuning south Mumbai', and then for the next changeset, I forget to put anything, so it again goes as 'fine tuning south mumbai' when it is actually concerning a place hundreds of kilometers away. +1 I've been caught several times forgetting to change the changeset comment and so it ends up worst than any generic comment since it then is misleading as to what happened. Maybe we just need better tools to summerise changes made, rather than trying to get something meaningful by way of the comment field... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
