Steve,
same here. Even medium designs won't route and end up with an unable to
initialise. Does anyone know a reason and workaround for this effect?
Regards,
Gisbert Auge
N.A.T. GmbH
Hi,
my use of Protel is
- Schematic yes
- PCB yes
- Powerprint no
- CAM Manager yes
- Simulator no
- Autorouter seldom
- 3D Viewer no
- PLD no
- Arrange Components no
- Autoplacer no, much worse than AR
- PCB Miter
The new router coming, we are told, might be a more serious competitor to
Specctra. If this is true, then the price increases Protel might be well
worth it. Even if the router was not as good as Specctra but was
substantially better than the current router, it might still be worth it.
So we are
On 10:30 PM 18/11/2001 -1100, Douglas McDonald said:
The new router coming, we are told, might be a more serious competitor to
Specctra. If this is true, then the price increases Protel might be well
worth it. Even if the router was not as good as Specctra but was
substantially better than the
- Schematic
- PCB
- Powerprint
- CAM Manager
- Autorouter
- CamTastic (if it counts as part of Protel...)
Regards
Andy Gulliver
-Original Message-
From: Edi Im Hof [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 16 November 2001 18:17
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: [PEDA] Protel usage
Hi
I'm using :
- Schematicyes
- PCB yes
- Powerprint yes - printing my prototypes onto a transparent
- CAM Manager yes
- Simulatorno - never tried
- Autorouter no - toy stuff
- 3D Viewerno - never tried
-
thanks to all who posted on this. when i had tried
this before, i had set up multiple pads on the top
and then tried to group move them to the bottom. i'm
sure there is a way to do this, but with a minimum
of messing with it, i couldn't get it to work.
HOWEVER, i found that individually i
SNIP A LOT
Michael,
First lets get something straight, I take offence at your questioning my
competence with Protel, I've been using it for a very long time and am
familiar with all of its usual weird behaviours (even though they are still
unacceptable)
The only reason we are using it at all,
Jason,
I figured you might be offended, I will be glad to look at or help you in
any way I can by examining your file. Seriously, I am not trying to defend
Protel, some of you will recall I was one of the first to use some very
harsh language when 99 was released with lots of bugs. I even
The files in question were returned to Protel under NDA, they confirmed the
problems as reported and indicated that at present there was no fix.
Sorry, but I can't transmit designs to the public, at least without NDA,
thanks for the offer anyway.
I can say that there are about:-
1100 components
I'm curious.
How many upgraded to Protel 99 SE and thus do not have the Protel 99 SE
Designer's Handbook, and how many people do have it?
How many of the people with the Designer's Handbook feel the simulator,
signal integrity and PLD are poorly documented?
The reason I ask is that at the
Initially on the new machine all printing activity from within Protel
would
cause a crash, from experience we know that protel is very sensitive to
graphics cards (surely not the fault of protel), so changing it sorted
some
of the crashes (its now the same as the first machine)
So we've got the same files on the same everything, what's left? Protel
is
sensitive to PC hardware, surely not..
It's possible even though it gets less likely with newer versions of
Windows. On the other hand Protel and most windows programs are sensitive
to DLLs. Protel is more
At 09:15 AM 11/19/01 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Antwort is filled in automatically by the mail tool and means reply in
German language.
For English speakers to remember this, Ant = back, as in anterior, and
wort, I would guess, not knowing German, would be the same as English
ward. So,
Explain why a fresh re-install of 2000 + sp2, then Protel +sp6 crashes on
several operations, even on first run.
Explain why printing on one machine with exactly the same graphics card,
graphics drivers, print drivers etc. works fine. On the new one it does
not,
if it prints at all, many
At 07:04 AM 11/19/01 -0500, Robison Michael R CNIN wrote:
thanks to all who posted on this. when i had tried
this before, i had set up multiple pads on the top
and then tried to group move them to the bottom. i'm
sure there is a way to do this, but with a minimum
of messing with it, i couldn't
Rob,
You can download the 99SE handbook as well as a handbook supplement from the
Protel website in PDF format. I agree, they are quite useful.
Tim Fifield
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*
* To leave this list visit:
*
From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For English speakers to remember this, Ant = back, as in anterior, and
wort, I would guess, not knowing German, would be the same as English
ward. So, backward.
Not *completely* correct, though near to it.
The german wort is the same as the
At 01:03 PM 11/19/01 +, Jason Morgan wrote:
[...]
Michael,
First lets get something straight, I take offence at your questioning my
competence with Protel, I've been using it for a very long time and am
familiar with all of its usual weird behaviours (even though they are still
unacceptable)
Ralf,
I think what Mr Lomax was doing was trying to find a way for our unilingual
cousins to the South to remember what antwort means, not it's literal
translation.
Auf wiedersehen,
-Original Message-
From: Ralf Gütlein [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 10:12
- Original Message -
From: Edi Im Hof [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 1:17 PM
Subject: [PEDA] Protel usage
Regarding the questions about 3D and autorouter, what parts of Protel do
you actually use?
This is a constructive and
Nice idea, but I don't think errant dram bits hunt and seek just Protel,
if the dram were faulty, I'd expect 2K (or any component of it) to dump at
least some of the time, also the bist would be likely to fail...
The majority of PC's though running at GHz frequencies still use either a
200 or
most of this memory stuff also has ECC (error correction code) of some sort
that should be fault tolerant on the board/chip/asic level (not the
software/application level)... I don't know much more about it, but if in
the software, you assign a memory pointer incorrectly and then try to use
it,
It's possible. PC hardware can exhibit problems. In all
those MB of RAM,
if a few bits flake out, it can crash a program. New PCs are on the
absolute bleeding edge, which means some blood (and sweat and
tears) is
bound to be spilt somewhere. If Protel is the largest app
(with your
What might be interesting would be a survey in which we describe what we
have in our systems, in terms of hardware and configuration, plus our
experience with crashes. It might be possible to analyze such data to
identify graphics cards, for example, that work, and those that don't.
Right
Jason, you crack me up. First you complain about bugs in Protel, then you
say it's your IT guy's problem because he wants to patch the OS even when
there is no visible problem. Patches == Bug fixes. You think all bugs are
visible? Think again buddy. There are security holes, reliability issues,
- Original Message -
From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)
What might be interesting would be a survey in which we describe what we
have in
At 04:29 PM 11/19/01 +, Jason Morgan wrote:
The files in question were returned to Protel under NDA, they confirmed the
problems as reported and indicated that at present there was no fix.
(1) They have said that before when there was an easy fix. Not always, of
course, but it is highly
At 12:36 PM 11/19/01 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think what Mr Lomax was doing was trying to find a way for our unilingual
cousins to the South to remember what antwort means, not it's literal
translation.
No, I was speculating on what was cognate to what. wort = word is actually
better
my P99 is very stable
1.4G P4 1G ram W2k
no anti virus, no norton, lots of other programs
Dennis Saputelli
Tony Karavidas wrote:
Jason, you crack me up. First you complain about bugs in Protel, then you
say it's your IT guy's problem because he wants to patch the OS even when
there is no
This unit 'ounces of copper', does it apply to
1)square foot ?
2)square yard ?
3)square meter ?
European thicknesses are 35, 70, 105, 150, 200 and 300 micrometer.
I just wondered how they relate.
One ounce is 28 grams, isn't it ?
Rene
Stephen Smith wrote:
Does anyone know a simple way of
I've created an odd footprint for a SMT Current Sense Resistor. Each L
shaped pad on the footprint consists of a pad and a copper fill attached
to it because I want the solder mask on the fill.
Anyways, when I run DRC I get a short circuit error between the fill of the
pad and the pad of the
Dwight Harm wrote:
Schematic, PCB, Powerprint, CAM Mgr, Autorouter, Camtastic (a bit).
PLD I used a bit, but it was easier to switch to Xilinx's tools than to
figure out how to get intermediate files from one to the other. (But it's a
pain using Xilinx's schematic capture.)
I put serious
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Steve,
same here. Even medium designs won't route and end up with an unable to
initialise. Does anyone know a reason and workaround for this effect?
A couple well-known, but not well documented things. The most
important is to have a keepout border around all the
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The following is my usage of Protel
- Schematicyes
- PCB yes
- Powerprint yes
- CAM Manageryes
- Simulatorsometimes - still have great difficulty
providing models for
many components.
-
Believe it or not I have seen a hardware memory problem crash Protel. It
was the only thing that needed enough memory to actually cause that SIMM to
be used. Of course this a few years ago running something like Windows 95
on a pentium 133, but the point is that it can happen since most low to
At 09:04 PM 11/19/01 +0100, you wrote:
This unit 'ounces of copper', does it apply to
1)square foot ?
2)square yard ?
3)square meter ?
square foot.
European thicknesses are 35, 70, 105, 150, 200 and 300 micrometer.
I just wondered how they relate.
One ounce of copper is about 1.4 mils thick.
Jason Morgan wrote:
Protel crashes, its protel's fault (even you admit that).
Protel still crashes on a machine running Win 95, which is strongly NOT
recommended. I also have it on a machine running Win 2000, and it is
much more reliable. Can't clearly say this is Protel's fault!
As for
Regarding the questions about 3D and autorouter, what parts of Protel do
you actually use?
I have made my own comments to Mr. Rupinski's disection. Hope you don't mind
my plagerism.
- SchematicYES My only concern is that I wish the ERC checking was
a little more comprehensive.
Hi Rene,
I believe the way the story (legend) goes is:
The British housing industry used to make copper shingles for roofing...
they were 1 foot by 1 foot square and had a weight 1 oz. ... I'm told that's
where the measurement technique was invented... This of course, yields the
familiar 1.4
At 04:16 PM 11/19/01 -0400, Tim Fifield wrote:
I've created an odd footprint for a SMT Current Sense Resistor. Each L
shaped pad on the footprint consists of a pad and a copper fill attached
to it because I want the solder mask on the fill.
Anyways, when I run DRC I get a short circuit error
I'm curious.
How many upgraded to Protel 99 SE and thus do not have the Protel 99 SE
Designer's Handbook, and how many people do have it?
How many of the people with the Designer's Handbook feel the simulator,
signal integrity and PLD are poorly documented?
To the extreme...
futzing
Fred A Rupinski wrote:
- Global EditingYESThis feature doesn't do what I expect. It is
too involved and confusing for rapid, productive editing. In some cases
it is necessary to revise a library component to edit a repeated schematic
or sheet component.
I use global edit, in
At 09:53 PM 11/19/01 +0100, Rene Tschaggelar wrote:
It is a short. The resistance doesn't matter.
Ignore it. Same happens for scratchable connections.
One way is to have two connectors with the same number,
then a short is allowed. But then the nets are equalized.
I do not advise ignoring any
Chris Mackensen wrote:
most of this memory stuff also has ECC (error correction code) of some sort
that should be fault tolerant on the board/chip/asic level (not the
software/application level)... I don't know much more about it, but if in
the software, you assign a memory pointer
At 04:01 PM 11/19/01 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
- AutoRouterNEVER, and have serious concerns about layout people who
do. (Unless using Spectra)
Ahem. I've been known to use the autorouter where it would save the client
money. Not for every job, definitely, but it remains a
Actually most memory does NOT have ECC.
Tony
-Original Message-
From: Chris Mackensen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 10:25 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)
most of this memory stuff also has ECC
This examination of the Protel package usage is a good exercise... Protel
should pay attention to this.
rant mode on
My pet peeve with the Protel Explorer concept is that I have to open
everything, in a specific place, without any changes in the windows
environment, in order to get the design
Rene Tschaggelar wrote:
This unit 'ounces of copper', does it apply to
1)square foot ?
2)square yard ?
3)square meter ?
It is ounces Avoirdupois per square foot, and is about .0014 thick,
which should equal about 55 uM, if I did the conversion right.
Jon
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
On 04:29 PM 19/11/2001 +, Jason Morgan said:
The files in question were returned to Protel under NDA, they confirmed the
problems as reported and indicated that at present there was no fix.
Sorry, but I can't transmit designs to the public, at least without NDA,
thanks for the offer anyway.
I'm with you, Tony. You couldn't pay me to go backwards into the old
separated file method. Our designs use a numbering scheme which in the past
meant having to look up on paper records which version of schematic matched
what version of pcb. The ddb file system makes it fast and idiot proof.
Actually, the high speed digital testers employed by the memory
manufacturers FULLY test memory modules over their rated speed
and voltage ranges. Usually any problems that occur after the
module leaves the factory are due to handling, installation or
motherboard related issues (timing,
Steve and the Forum,
There appears to be some confusion in several of the posts in response
to your original question, and I believe that I can clear up some of
that confusion.
Most of the tables or calculators available today have their basis
in the old MIL STD 275 tables which plotted current
No not currently. I'm a one man shop. PCB is between 5 and 10% of my
workload. However before this year, I worked in a small company with 5
engineers and we all shared 2 seats of Protel. (not at the same time)
We checked all regular source code into SourceSafe and also checked in
Xilinx source
At 04:53 PM 11/19/01 -0600, Matt Pobursky wrote:
Actually, the high speed digital testers employed by the memory
manufacturers FULLY test memory modules over their rated speed
and voltage ranges. Usually any problems that occur after the
module leaves the factory are due to handling, installation
At 09:46 PM 19/11/01 -0500, you wrote:
At 08:49 AM 11/20/01 +1100, Ian Wilson wrote:
If the board is incomplete, and the netlist from the sch is required,
then it is a little more complex, but still do-able.
If the board has all the footprints, i.e., there is a pad for every node
in the net
Peder, I asked Protel Support about this about a month ago. Below is an
extract of my email their response. It apparently wasn't important enough
to have been fixed yet!
=
Thank you for emailing Technical Support.
I have forwarded this link to our
From this point, look how easy physics can be, if you are using the metric
system.
Georg
-Urspr ngliche Nachricht-
Von: Brooks,Bill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Gesendet: Montag, 19. November 2001 21:58
An: 'Protel EDA Forum'
Betreff: Re: [PEDA] Copper Calculations
Hi Rene,
I believe
Hi
I have the designer handbook of Protel99SE. I submit that simulator,
signal integrity and PLD is poorly documented.
Wolfgang Geier
JUMPtec AG
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
19.11.2001 17:26
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