date:20040421

It doesn't look like any of these: 
http://www.commercialbreaksandbeats.co..uk/results.asp?searchString=rimmel

-Original Message-
From: Philip [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 2:05 AM
To: 313
Subject: (313) track ID

has anyone seen the TV ad for the 'UK underground' ( i think ) range of
rimmel lipstick which features a duranesque sounding track that's also a
bit housey, 4/4, contemporary sounding etc. anyone know what this track
is ? thanx. i will contribute something relevant shortly

p  

#
Note:

Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily 
represent 
those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This 
email 
and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of 
the 
individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this 
email in 
error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thank You.
#

(313) the future

whatever happened to the future?
did it become an outdated concept?

as I sat watching Matthew Herbert and his bag of crisps band last night, I
realised I was watching a 50 year old (at least) show.

then, I thought, all the bands I've seen lately have harked to the past,
really heavily. All the records I buy are obsessed with the past, or are
old.

even techno isn't futuristic any more. Jeff Mills scores films from the
'20's, Red Planet titles are all about native american indian issues,
instead of sex in zero gravity or journey to the martian polar
cap.. There's no time, space, transmat business anymore. I mean,
even the word transmat was made up wasn't it? No one does that any more,
there's no dreamers left, just flippin' historians.

so why? is it too scary to contemplate any more?



_

- End of message text 

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
give your consent to such monitoring

AW: (313) Future

2004-04-21 Thread Katrin Richter

I think space has become a dated concept as people realise that not even the
present is really enjoyable. Wars, poverty, debts, pollution... Why being
exited about the future? It might suck even more...

Maybe it's time for some Post-Futurism. Or maybe not... this is what I found
about Futurism as an art form:


Futurism was an international art movement founded in Italy in 1909. It was
(and is) a refreshing contrast to the weepy sentimentalism of Romanticism.
The Futurists loved speed, noise, machines, pollution, and cities; they
embraced the exciting new world that was then upon them rather than
hypocritically enjoying the modern world's comforts while loudly denouncing
the forces that made them possible. Fearing and attacking technology has
become almost second nature to many people today; the Futurist manifestos
show us an alternative philosophy. Too bad they were all Fascists.
http://www.unknown.nu/futurism/
Manifesto of Futurism
1. We intend to sing the love of danger, the habit of energy and
fearlessness.
2. Courage, audacity, and revolt will be essential elements of our poetry.
3. Up to now literature has exalted a pensive immobility, ecstasy, and
sleep. We intend to exalt aggresive action, a feverish insomnia, the racer's
stride, the mortal leap, the punch and the slap.
4. We affirm that the world's magnificence has been enriched by a new
beauty: the beauty of speed. A racing car whose hood is adorned with great
pipes, like serpents of explosive breath-a roaring car that seems to ride on
grapeshot is more beautiful than the Victory of Samothrace.
5. We want to hymn the man at the wheel, who hurls the lance of his spirit
across the Earth, along the circle of its orbit.
6. The poet must spend himself with ardor, splendor, and generosity, to
swell the enthusiastic fervor of the primordial elements.
7. Except in struggle, there is no more beauty. No work without an
aggressive character can be a masterpiece. Poetry must be conceived as a
violent attack on unknown forces, to reduce and prostrate them before man.
8. We stand on the last promontory of the centuries!... Why should we look
back, when what we want is to break down the mysterious doors of the
Impossible? Time and Space died yesterday. We already live in the absolute,
because we have created eternal, omnipresent speed.
9. We will glorify war-the world's only hygiene-militarism, patriotism, the
destructive gesture of freedom-bringers, beautiful ideas worth dying for,
and scorn for woman.
10. We will destroy the museums, libraries, academies of every kind, will
fight moralism, feminism, every opportunistic or utilitarian cowardice.
11. We will sing of great crowds excited by work, by pleasure, and by riot;
we will sing of the multicolored, polyphonic tides of revolution in the
modern capitals; we will sing of the vibrant nightly fervor of arsenals and
shipyards blazing with violent electric moons; greedy railway stations that
devour smoke-plumed serpents; factories hung on clouds by the crooked lines
of their smoke; bridges that stride the rivers like giant gymnasts, flashing
in the sun with a glitter of knives; adventurous steamers that sniff the
horizon; deep-chested locomotives whose wheels paw the tracks like the
hooves of enormous steel horses bridled by tubing; and the sleek flight of
planes whose propellers chatter in the wind like banners and seem to cheer
like an enthusiastic crowd.
http://www.unknown.nu/futurism/manifesto.html



-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. April 2004 10:50
An: 313@hyperreal.org
Betreff: (313) the future

whatever happened to the future?
did it become an outdated concept?

as I sat watching Matthew Herbert and his bag of crisps band last night, I
realised I was watching a 50 year old (at least) show.

then, I thought, all the bands I've seen lately have harked to the past,
really heavily. All the records I buy are obsessed with the past, or are
old.

even techno isn't futuristic any more. Jeff Mills scores films from the
'20's, Red Planet titles are all about native american indian issues,
instead of sex in zero gravity or journey to the martian polar
cap.. There's no time, space, transmat business anymore. I mean,
even the word transmat was made up wasn't it? No one does that any more,
there's no dreamers left, just flippin' historians.

so why? is it too scary to contemplate any more?

RE: (313) Future

2004-04-21 Thread Cobert, Gwendal

Too bad they were all Fascists - wrong as far as I know, many of them were, 
Marinetti, their leader, was, but their relationship was more complex than 
that... Marinetti was barely tolerated by Mussolini, and very soon several 
movements emerged over the world (esp Russia and South America), who took care 
of retaining the main ideas behind futurism while making themselves very 
distinct politically ; many were closer to communism, in fact.
Gwendal

-Original Message-
From: Katrin Richter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 11:14 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: AW: (313) Future


I think space has become a dated concept as people realise that not even the
present is really enjoyable. Wars, poverty, debts, pollution... Why being
exited about the future? It might suck even more...

Maybe it's time for some Post-Futurism. Or maybe not... this is what I found
about Futurism as an art form:


Futurism was an international art movement founded in Italy in 1909. It was
(and is) a refreshing contrast to the weepy sentimentalism of Romanticism.
The Futurists loved speed, noise, machines, pollution, and cities; they
embraced the exciting new world that was then upon them rather than
hypocritically enjoying the modern world's comforts while loudly denouncing
the forces that made them possible. Fearing and attacking technology has
become almost second nature to many people today; the Futurist manifestos
show us an alternative philosophy. Too bad they were all Fascists.
http://www.unknown.nu/futurism/
Manifesto of Futurism
1. We intend to sing the love of danger, the habit of energy and
fearlessness.
2. Courage, audacity, and revolt will be essential elements of our poetry.
3. Up to now literature has exalted a pensive immobility, ecstasy, and
sleep. We intend to exalt aggresive action, a feverish insomnia, the racer's
stride, the mortal leap, the punch and the slap.
4. We affirm that the world's magnificence has been enriched by a new
beauty: the beauty of speed. A racing car whose hood is adorned with great
pipes, like serpents of explosive breath-a roaring car that seems to ride on
grapeshot is more beautiful than the Victory of Samothrace.
5. We want to hymn the man at the wheel, who hurls the lance of his spirit
across the Earth, along the circle of its orbit.
6. The poet must spend himself with ardor, splendor, and generosity, to
swell the enthusiastic fervor of the primordial elements.
7. Except in struggle, there is no more beauty. No work without an
aggressive character can be a masterpiece. Poetry must be conceived as a
violent attack on unknown forces, to reduce and prostrate them before man.
8. We stand on the last promontory of the centuries!... Why should we look
back, when what we want is to break down the mysterious doors of the
Impossible? Time and Space died yesterday. We already live in the absolute,
because we have created eternal, omnipresent speed.
9. We will glorify war-the world's only hygiene-militarism, patriotism, the
destructive gesture of freedom-bringers, beautiful ideas worth dying for,
and scorn for woman.
10. We will destroy the museums, libraries, academies of every kind, will
fight moralism, feminism, every opportunistic or utilitarian cowardice.
11. We will sing of great crowds excited by work, by pleasure, and by riot;
we will sing of the multicolored, polyphonic tides of revolution in the
modern capitals; we will sing of the vibrant nightly fervor of arsenals and
shipyards blazing with violent electric moons; greedy railway stations that
devour smoke-plumed serpents; factories hung on clouds by the crooked lines
of their smoke; bridges that stride the rivers like giant gymnasts, flashing
in the sun with a glitter of knives; adventurous steamers that sniff the
horizon; deep-chested locomotives whose wheels paw the tracks like the
hooves of enormous steel horses bridled by tubing; and the sleek flight of
planes whose propellers chatter in the wind like banners and seem to cheer
like an enthusiastic crowd.
http://www.unknown.nu/futurism/manifesto.html



-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. April 2004 10:50
An: 313@hyperreal.org
Betreff: (313) the future

whatever happened to the future?
did it become an outdated concept?

as I sat watching Matthew Herbert and his bag of crisps band last night, I
realised I was watching a 50 year old (at least) show.

then, I thought, all the bands I've seen lately have harked to the past,
really heavily. All the records I buy are obsessed with the past, or are
old.

even techno isn't futuristic any more. Jeff Mills scores films from the
'20's, Red Planet titles are all about native american indian issues,
instead of sex in zero gravity or journey to the martian polar
cap.. There's no time, space, transmat business anymore. I mean,
even the word transmat was made up wasn't it? No one does that any more,
there's no dreamers

RE: (313) the future

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 21 April 2004 09:50
 
 even techno isn't futuristic any more...

 so why? is it too scary to contemplate any more?

For a lot of people, definitely. Arguably, any form of truly 
futuristic music being made today would need to be fairly 
terrifying, while ever since the 1950s future-gazing has been 
characterised by optimism, by these ideas of a bright and 
shiny high-tech future. 

People like Kraftwerk first appeared with music that was

RE: (313) the future


Brendan wrote
For a lot of people, definitely. Arguably, any form of truly
futuristic music being made today would need to be fairly
terrifying, while ever since the 1950s future-gazing has been
characterised by optimism, by these ideas of a bright and
shiny high-tech future.

People like Kraftwerk first appeared with music that was

I write
Brendan! Is this like a soap opera? I'm on the edge of my seat!
don't tell me I have to wait till tomorrow for it...

; )
_

- End of message text 

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
give your consent to such monitoring

RE: (313) the future

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 21 April 2004 09:50
 
 even techno isn't futuristic any more...

 so why? is it too scary to contemplate any more?

For a lot of people, definitely. Arguably, any form of truly 
futuristic music being made today would need to be fairly 
terrifying, while ever since the 1950s future-gazing has been 
characterised by optimism, by these ideas of a bright and 
shiny high-tech future. 

People like Kraftwerk first appeared with music that evoked that 
idea of the future, and from then on a lot of electronic music 
right up until the early or mid-1990s conjured up similar sorts 
of images. The idea of the future as an evolved version of the 
present was fairly fundamental up until the point when we started 
to realise that a lot of things future-minded electronic music was 
predicting had actually come to light.

I reckon that it was around the late 1990s, when the year 2000 was 
suddenly looming in front of us, when Kraftwerk's Computer World 
had pretty much become like a factual description of reality rather 
than wild early-80s speculation of a future world, that it started 
to look as though the future was here. And what difference had it 
really made? It was still raining when you got on the bus to work 
on Monday morning; Meatloaf was still at number one in the charts; 
and when the millennium came and went, none of this changed.

So now we're in a position where the things that used to characterise 
our concepts of the future have come into reality, and no new idea 
of the future has come in to take their place. We get into retro-
futurism, finding past concepts of the future (our present) to be a 
lot more pleasant that current concepts of *our* future. But at some 
point something has to give - this no future thing can't last forever.

The question is, when people start trying to make genuinely futuristic 
music again, what will it sound like? It will possibly be to modern 
techno what punk was to prog rock; it might in fact sound terrifying...

Brendan

RE: (313) the future

2004-04-21 Thread Marsel // Nomorewords.net


i guess, a part of it could be because the year 2000 has passed?

as 2000 wasn't that far away for a long time, and with the magic of the
number,
like 'dreaming' that would be a year when all things would be better /
utopia
filled in, by everybody their own purposes / dreams

and i guess, we need to get use to 3000? as being more exiting 2100? or
2500?
like that's the new year when everything will be ok
but a bit too far away ?
2100 maybe?

RE: (313) the future

2004-04-21 Thread Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)

It seems foolish to me to define the future as something that the members
of this list cannot possibly reach..are we talking about our future or
OUR FUTURE?

-Original Message-
From: Marsel // Nomorewords.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 21 April 2004 10:47 
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: (313) the future

i guess, a part of it could be because the year 2000 has passed?

as 2000 wasn't that far away for a long time, and with the magic of the
number,
like 'dreaming' that would be a year when all things would be better /
utopia
filled in, by everybody their own purposes / dreams

and i guess, we need to get use to 3000? as being more exiting 2100? or
2500?
like that's the new year when everything will be ok
but a bit too far away ?
2100 maybe?

***
Opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and 
not Entergy-Koch Trading Limited or its affiliated companies. 
This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies 
and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently 
transmitted from the Company, are confidential and solely for the 
use of the intended recipient. It may contain material protected by 
attorney-client privilege. If you are not listed on the To or Cc 
lines of the original email (or are not the person responsible for 
delivering to an intended recipient), then you are not an intended 
recipient and have received this email in error.  Any use by an 
unintended recipient is strictly prohibited.

If you have received this email in error please notify the IT manager 
by telephone on +44 (0)20 7337 8300 or via email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], attaching this message. Please 
then delete this email and all attachments, and destroy any copies 
thereof.  Thank you.
***

Re: (313) the future

2004-04-21 Thread Ronny Pries

face it, you're living a longtime relationship with the things you know, 
that's why they appear old, used or even boring to you. time to change 
the point of view maybe?


ronny

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


whatever happened to the future?
did it become an outdated concept?

as I sat watching Matthew Herbert and his bag of crisps band last night, I
realised I was watching a 50 year old (at least) show.

then, I thought, all the bands I've seen lately have harked to the past,
really heavily. All the records I buy are obsessed with the past, or are
old.

even techno isn't futuristic any more. Jeff Mills scores films from the
'20's, Red Planet titles are all about native american indian issues,
instead of sex in zero gravity or journey to the martian polar
cap.. There's no time, space, transmat business anymore. I mean,
even the word transmat was made up wasn't it? No one does that any more,
there's no dreamers left, just flippin' historians.

so why? is it too scary to contemplate any more?

Re: (313) the future

 whatever happened to the future?
 did it become an outdated concept?


sign of the times..

new ideas and concepts always question and destabilize your way of thinking,
feeling, reacting, living. and there's a great potential of failure. you
need some spare energy to cope with that.
old stuff is reassuring because it's mostly already integrated in historic
narrations. it's known, at least peripherically or semi-conciously. you
don't have to think about it, make up your mind about it, understand it.
it's just there, it has a natural feel to it. plus it it has additional
nostalgic / sentimental potential
futurism needs optimism, today people are scared, fear takes up a lot of
energy..

but isn't this explicit historism in dance music new in it self?
and how to sample future stuff?


noticed how some of the current car design aestehtics tend to a bulkyness
and massiveness that suggests some kind of (symbolic) protection? some bmws,
daimlers etc look like tanks.. audis are the worst

RE: (313) the future

2004-04-21 Thread Andrew

It's interesting, that buried inside that older notion of 'it will get
better by the year 2000', is a sense of being looked after by the powers
that be. At least, it may have been thought that by 2000 we'd be able to
take care of ourselves economically. What we've seen since the 70s is a
wholesale attack against normal people from above, from the wealthy and
powerful. From jobs, pensions, banking, commerce, advertising, it seems like
what the 'future' really is is the fight to not be exploited. The trust that
'it will be alright' has turned to a hopeful dream, probably never to be
fulfilled without a serious struggle.

How this will relate to music, I'm not sure, but I know music will be more
important to people as times get harder.

Andrew


-Original Message-
From: Marsel // Nomorewords.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 21 April 2004 10:47
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: (313) the future



i guess, a part of it could be because the year 2000 has passed?

as 2000 wasn't that far away for a long time, and with the magic of the
number, like 'dreaming' that would be a year when all things would be
better / utopia filled in, by everybody their own purposes / dreams

and i guess, we need to get use to 3000? as being more exiting 2100? or
2500? like that's the new year when everything will be ok but a bit too
far away ? 2100 maybe?

Re: (313) the future


ronnyface it, you're living a longtime relationship with the things you
know,
that's why they appear old, used or even boring to you. time to change
the point of view maybe?

well, maybe.

but the point is, all I hear is badly recycled ideas.
and worse, this seems to be acceptable for some reason.

take Matthew Herbert. how many times have I read that this man is pushing
electronic music to new levels, taking it one step further. what? by
recycling 60 year old songs, adding a few of his own and standing infront
of it all sampling a balloon?

is this the 'future'? the 'hip' crowd obviously had read that it was.

or that band Spektrum. Great band. I keep reading they're the hottest new
thing. I think they sound great, but lets face it, that could have been
made 20 years ago without looking too deeply into it.

I dunno. there's tons of great new underground music about at the minute,
and I don't why I moan, perhaps I just want an argument. Of course you have
to look to the past to gain inspiration, but for f**ks sake, I think it's
gone way too far. It's like my mate who I swear to god hasn't bought a
record that was made past 1986 in the last 3 years. he dj's out too, and
he's good, but flippin eck, I don't think I can live with it any more, it
bores me.

so there.

Alex
*I'm getting me a spacesuit*
_

- End of message text 

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
give your consent to such monitoring

Re: (313) the future



 take Matthew Herbert. how many times have I read that this man is pushing
 electronic music to new levels, taking it one step further. what? by
 recycling 60 year old songs, adding a few of his own and standing infront
 of it all sampling a balloon?

and he does this trick since what 8-10 years now, so it's old in that sense
too.

i can't stand him today, but he did great things at the beginning hahahaha

Re: (313) the future


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



but the point is, all I hear is badly recycled ideas.
and worse, this seems to be acceptable for some reason.


Are they bad because they're recycled?  Or are they bad, independent of 
their relationship to history?


There was a thread on one of these lists (this one, maybe?) about 6 
months ago about whether or not there was an inherent quality-boost 
applied to things just because they were new.


I mentioned that I thought this was crap, and gave some examples from 
17th and 18th Century music to explain why.


Basically, my argument was that there are TWO unrelated things that 
determine whether or not art will stand the test of time.  One is real 
quality.  The other is real originality.  There's PLENTY of stuff out 
there that's lasted because it was new - NOT because it was good.


Personally, I could care less about originality.  I'm only interested in 
quality.  Give me a 4 chord pop song.  As long as it's GOOD, I'm satisfied.


Frankly, it's dead easy to make something new, as long as you're not 
concerned about making it good.  Contemporary concert music (a world I 
know pretty well) is full of composers who write 3-page program notes 
about why their work is ground-breaking and important.  Very little of 
that work is worth hearing.



My $.02,

--
Dennis DeSantis
www.dennisdesantis.com

Re: (313) the future


dennisAre they bad because they're recycled?  Or are they bad, independent
of
their relationship to history?

I'm not sure I guess. I think that recycling can be good though, so it must
be the latter.
I just feel that alot of things/projects at the minute are unashamedly
retro, and I'm a little bored of it, so I asked what happened to the
future?

I don't really see loads of people dreaming about the future in relation to
music, and I used to find that pretty exciting. looking back ALL the time
seems to be the order of the day at the minute.

alex


_

- End of message text 

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
give your consent to such monitoring

Re: (313) the future


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I just feel that alot of things/projects at the minute are unashamedly
retro, and I'm a little bored of it, so I asked what happened to the
future?


That's interesting, because I fel that a lot of things/projects at the 
minute are unashamedly bad...and I suspect that you and I are talking 
about the same things/projects.


;)


--
Dennis DeSantis
www.dennisdesantis.com

Re: (313) the future

 Personally, I could care less about originality.  I'm only interested in
 quality.  Give me a 4 chord pop song.  As long as it's GOOD, I'm
satisfied.

problem is that while criterias for newness are fairly easy to come up with,
criterias for quality in art etc are impossible to state without being
matters of subjective taste.

 Frankly, it's dead easy to make something new, as long as you're not
 concerned about making it good.

i disagree strongly. to produce something genuinly new in the field of  art,
ideas and concepts is impossible. to produce something new to the possibly
greatest degree is very very hard.

i think originality is the only criteria for artistic value.

now the question is: is it art or entertainment? entertainment should not be
very new, because otherwise it wouldn't entertain.

Re: (313) the future


ha wrote:


problem is that while criterias for newness are fairly easy to come up with,
criterias for quality in art etc are impossible to state without being
matters of subjective taste.


Criteria for newness are pretty dependent on what your know, right?
In every undergraduate composition class in the US, right now, there's a 
kid writing a piece using harmony based on perfect 4ths.  Not only does 
that kid think it's the most beautiful thing he's ever heard, he also 
thinks he's breaking new ground.



Frankly, it's dead easy to make something new, as long as you're not
concerned about making it good.



i disagree strongly. to produce something genuinly new in the field of  art,
ideas and concepts is impossible. to produce something new to the possibly
greatest degree is very very hard.


That's why I put it in quotes.  The problem as I see it, is this:


i think originality is the only criteria for artistic value.


So many artists believe that originality is the Holy Grail, that they 
stop thinking about making it WORK.  Drop a bowling ball onto a piano - 
it's new!  But what, really, have you got to show for it?
Of course it's hard to make something that's ACTUALLY new.  But I think 
it's much harder to make something that's actually good, and the two are 
not necessarily related.



now the question is: is it art or entertainment? entertainment should not be
very new, because otherwise it wouldn't entertain.


The question of whether or not something is art or entertainment, I 
believe, can only be decided by history.


--
Dennis DeSantis
www.dennisdesantis.com

RE: (313) the future

Are art and entertainment mutually exclusive?

-Original Message-
From: Dennis DeSantis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 10:44 AM
To: ha
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: (313) the future

 now the question is: is it art or entertainment? entertainment should not be
 very new, because otherwise it wouldn't entertain.

The question of whether or not something is art or entertainment, I 
believe, can only be decided by history.

-- 
Dennis DeSantis
www.dennisdesantis.com
#
Note:

Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily 
represent 
those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This 
email 
and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of 
the 
individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this 
email in 
error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thank You.
#

Re: (313) the future


That's interesting, because I fel that a lot of things/projects at the
minute are unashamedly bad...and I suspect that you and I are talking
about the same things/projects.

ha! yeah, probably are

so, say, using Herbert as an example as I watched him last night - I didn't
feel it was bad as such, I didn't really like it, but it amazes me that
people can describe this kind of project as being cutting edge. If so
many people can enjoy it, like pop music, can it be described as 'bad'?
maybe it can I guess.
admittedly, the big band didnt just play old numbers, they played a couple
of his compositions too - the one I remember most is cafe de flore. But,
they turned a pretty fantastic electronic record into something pretty
average - by using the band to play this song, it showed up the strength of
the song as there was nothing quirky or exciting about it when played by
the big band.

Gawd, I'm talking myself round in circles here, I don't even know what my
point is and more to the point I'm a hypocrite because I love the sound of
'old' techno, and would be perfectly happy if people made 'old' sounding
records in this vein still.

so, probably best to ignore me really and take everything I say with a
pinch of salt.

it's interesting to see what everyone thinks of it though.

alex
_

- End of message text 

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
give your consent to such monitoring

Re: (313) the future


Robert Taylor wrote:


Are art and entertainment mutually exclusive?


No, not at all.  In fact, I don't have a clue what the difference is 
anymore.  I'm not sure if I ever did.


Oh God...this is going to turn into a Define Art thread.

I'll be under my desk if anyone needs me

--
Dennis DeSantis
www.dennisdesantis.com

Re: (313) the future

2004-04-21 Thread jurren baars


alex.bond wrote:


I don't really see loads of people dreaming about the future in relation to
music, and I used to find that pretty exciting. looking back ALL the time
seems to be the order of the day at the minute.


maybe that's because our visions of the future have changed since the 
eighties.
look at almost every movie made in the 80ies, 'predicting' the future, 
everything looked more or less the same, there was a consensus over what the 
future actually was going to look like. if you look back even further you 
see the same thing, but the future looks even more 'far out' every one walks 
around in shiny silvery costumes, and has a spacecraft. looking at the 
future in that way nowadays, is about the most retro concept you can think 
of.


we've come to realise that we don't really know what the future will look 
like, what we do realise though is that chances are that it won't look 
anything like we immagined it before. therefore our collective vision of the 
future has changed. there isn't one vision anymore, more so, we can't really 
put a visual with this/these new visions. futurism has become more about 
interpersonal relationships, and has become much more of a personal view of 
what the future could like like. old value systems and so fort are regarded 
by some as a necessity for future societys, this view can be reflected in 
the way people make their 'futuristic' music.


therefore it could very well be that you are surrounded by much more 
futuristic music then you'd think, you just don't recognise it as such, as 
it's not compattible with your view of the future.


jurren

_
MSN Search, for accurate results! http://search.msn.nl

Re: (313) the future


From: Dennis DeSantis

 ha wrote:

  problem is that while criterias for newness are fairly easy to come up
with,
  criterias for quality in art etc are impossible to state without being
  matters of subjective taste.

 Criteria for newness are pretty dependent on what your know, right?
 In every undergraduate composition class in the US, right now, there's a
 kid writing a piece using harmony based on perfect 4ths.  Not only does
 that kid think it's the most beautiful thing he's ever heard, he also
 thinks he's breaking new ground.



agreed, the knowing the history part is a (smaller) factor of the
difficulties encountered on the way to the new



 Frankly, it's dead easy to make something new, as long as you're not
 concerned about making it good.
 
 
  i disagree strongly. to produce something genuinly new in the field of
art,
  ideas and concepts is impossible. to produce something new to the
possibly
  greatest degree is very very hard.

 That's why I put it in quotes.  The problem as I see it, is this:

  i think originality is the only criteria for artistic value.

 So many artists believe that originality is the Holy Grail, that they
 stop thinking about making it WORK.  Drop a bowling ball onto a piano -
 it's new!  But what, really, have you got to show for it?
 Of course it's hard to make something that's ACTUALLY new.  But I think
 it's much harder to make something that's actually good, and the two are
 not necessarily related.


well of course you would have to look deeper into it to know if it is new or
not. in any way it would have been exciting if someone in the 19th century
would have done that in a concert situation AND backed it up with some
theory or at least some clues. to do this today is nothing new at all or
maybe it even could be,if the concept behind it would be new. maybe it
wouldn't be very entertaining and maybe you wouldn't even have to actually
see / hear it to get the idea



  now the question is: is it art or entertainment? entertainment should
not be
  very new, because otherwise it wouldn't entertain.

 The question of whether or not something is art or entertainment, I
 believe, can only be decided by history.


agree here too. but what do you mean by history? 2 years, 5 years, 100? the
relevancy of something is more likely to be made visible after a longer
period of time... the originality of it can be determined more quickly i
think

RE: (313) the future

 -Original Message-
 From: Marsel // Nomorewords.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 21 April 2004 10:47
 
 i guess, a part of it could be because the year 2000 has passed?

In the run-up to the year 2000, the idea of the future was already 
fading in popularity as far as I could tell. My theory at the time was 
that people trying to look forward from the late 1990s saw the year 2000 
as a kind of mirror, preventing them from seeing any further forwards 
and instead presenting them with images of the past. The hope I had was 
that once the 2000 milestone came and went people would be able to think 
about the future properly again, without this huge barrier in front of 
them.

Ultimately, though, I turned out to be wrong - the year 2000 actually 
seemed to have been an inspiration for future-minded thinking rather 
than a barrier (or maybe it was both?). Since we passed it, there have 
been a lot of ways, and not just music/cultural, in which this obsession 
with the past and lack of interest in the future have manifested 
themselves.

Once we get past 2050 and the year 2100 is starting to loom, it'll 
definitely have some effect. But it's too hard to predict now what that 
effect will be, particularly because we've got no idea what life will 
be like in 2050 and therefore can't predict how people of that time 
will comprehend and perceive their possible futures.

Brendan

RE: (313) the future

 -Original Message-
 From: ha [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 21 April 2004 11:39
 
  Personally, I could care less about originality.  I'm only 
 interested in
  quality.  Give me a 4 chord pop song.  As long as it's GOOD, I'm
 satisfied.
 
 problem is that while criterias for newness are fairly easy 
 to come up with, criterias for quality in art etc are impossible 
 to state without being matters of subjective taste.

But coming back to your earlier comment, it's easier to come up with 
criteria for quality when you're working within the context of an old 
or ancient art form. People who are interested in quality over 
originality will always tend towards older or traditional forms because 
it's easier to judge quality when you have a wealth of previous material 
to use as benchmarks.

(To me in general, quality without originality is something I enjoy, while 
originality without quality is something I respect; originality *and* 
quality together is ideal)

Brendan

Re: (313) the future


ha wrote:


 maybe it
wouldn't be very entertaining and maybe you wouldn't even have to actually
see / hear it to get the idea


To get the idea of the concept, maybe.  But to get the idea of the 
artistic experience?  Absurd.


THIS is the sort of reductio ad absurdum situation that purely 
conceptual art can lead to.  If the entire weight of the art can be 
summarized in the writings about the art, then where's the art?


If the real meat of your work is in your program 
notes/explanations/justifications, then why call yourself a 
composer/painter/sculptor?


That particular breed of artist is worth absolutely nothing to me.

--
Dennis DeSantis
www.dennisdesantis.com

AW: (313) the future

2004-04-21 Thread Katrin Richter

I agree. I prefer art that is self explanatory and appeals to the
onlooker/listener without needing a theory to support it.



-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Dennis DeSantis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. April 2004 13:24
An: ha
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
Betreff: Re: (313) the future

ha wrote:

  maybe it
 wouldn't be very entertaining and maybe you wouldn't even have to actually
 see / hear it to get the idea

To get the idea of the concept, maybe.  But to get the idea of the
artistic experience?  Absurd.

THIS is the sort of reductio ad absurdum situation that purely
conceptual art can lead to.  If the entire weight of the art can be
summarized in the writings about the art, then where's the art?

If the real meat of your work is in your program
notes/explanations/justifications, then why call yourself a
composer/painter/sculptor?

That particular breed of artist is worth absolutely nothing to me.

--
Dennis DeSantis
www.dennisdesantis.com

Re: (313) the future

2004-04-21 Thread Tom Churchill

 admittedly, the big band didnt just play old numbers, they played a couple
 of his compositions too

When I saw them in Sonar last year they were playing only his compositions
(i.e. the tracks from the Goodbye Swingtime album), no 'old numbers' at all
- is the current tour different then? I'm going to see them in Edinburgh
tomorrow...

I know what you're saying about it not being 'cutting edge' as such because
of the use of a retro form of instrumentation - but I enjoyoed it as a
musical performance. Some bits of it work better than others but I still
think this project has a pretty interesting and unique approach...

Cheers,

Tom

Re: (313) the future (a different approach)

2004-04-21 Thread Ronny Pries

since this thread seems to be related to the things we know for a long 
time, i'd be interested in your 2 latest discoveries of which you think 
they are new (you didn't know them before). may it be websites, 
movements, phenomenas or a band you just discovered, whatever. i'm 
pretty sure there are things to discover others didn't know before but 
are worth beeing checked out. i'm curious about the results.


ronny

Re: (313) the future


TomWhen I saw them in Sonar last year they were playing only his
compositions
(i.e. the tracks from the Goodbye Swingtime album), no 'old numbers' at
all

ahh, well to be honest I don't know for sure. I'm probably wrong.
It's just I thought I recognised a couple of them as being old relatively
famous songs.

could be wrong though as they deffo did quite a few 'herbert' tracks that I
recognised.

but I still
think this project has a pretty interesting and unique approach...

without a doubt. I guess it's just down to personal opinions as I wasn't
overall that keen on it - maybe it was the whole sitting down thing - I
hate sitting down to 'watch' music, it all seems so wrong to me! no one can
accuse him of not being unique though for sure.

Alex
_

- End of message text 

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
give your consent to such monitoring

(313) that Mach 12

ok, I'll stop winging now and ask for some advice instead

the Mach 12 On  On (the one Jessay sampled for On  On)

(on Mix records)

What do you think it's worth? Has anyone ever seen one for sale?
I might have an opportunity to get one.

Thanks

Alex
_

- End of message text 

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
give your consent to such monitoring

RE: (313) that Mach 12

2004-04-21 Thread Rob Tyte

I got mine for £8.00 about 18 months ago off Gemm. It's Remix records not 
Mix click the link and 2nd one down... it the b side to funky.

http://home.wanadoo.nl/discopatrick/othmix1.htm

 -Original Message-
From:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent:   21 April 2004 13:37
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject:(313) that Mach 12

ok, I'll stop winging now and ask for some advice instead

the Mach 12 On  On (the one Jessay sampled for On  On)

(on Mix records)

What do you think it's worth? Has anyone ever seen one for sale?
I might have an opportunity to get one.

Thanks

Alex
_

- End of message text 

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
give your consent to such monitoring

Re: (313) the future

2004-04-21 Thread John Coleman

I think it's just techno reflecting the larger world of popular culture
right now. Retro is hip now, and the next big thing is whatever was the
big thing twenty years previous. Pop has eaten itself.

As for why, I think with techno-or, for that matter, any smaller
sub-culture-it's inevitable for the larger trends to seep down into them.
Someone can plead ignorance of popular culture, that they're too hip to be
affected by what's hip, but the larger cultural themes tend to be so
pervasive they're impossible to avoid.

As for why retro is hip in the larger realm, I think that's just because
it's cheaper and faster (for the handful of companies that control popular
culture right now) to re-cycle old ideas than to try and come up with any
new ones. Less percieved risk, as well. Stick with that worked in the past
rather than something new and un-tested.


 whatever happened to the future?
 did it become an outdated concept?

 as I sat watching Matthew Herbert and his bag of crisps band last night,
 I realised I was watching a 50 year old (at least) show.

 then, I thought, all the bands I've seen lately have harked to the past,
 really heavily. All the records I buy are obsessed with the past, or are
 old.

 even techno isn't futuristic any more. Jeff Mills scores films from the
 '20's, Red Planet titles are all about native american indian issues,
 instead of sex in zero gravity or journey to the martian polar
 cap.. There's no time, space, transmat business anymore. I mean,
 even the word transmat was made up wasn't it? No one does that any
 more, there's no dreamers left, just flippin' historians.

 so why? is it too scary to contemplate any more?

Re: (313) the future

2004-04-21 Thread John Coleman

 Criteria for newness are pretty dependent on what your know, right? In
 every undergraduate composition class in the US, right now, there's a
 kid writing a piece using harmony based on perfect 4ths.  Not only does
 that kid think it's the most beautiful thing he's ever heard, he also
 thinks he's breaking new ground.

My personal belief is that any artist can only be as original as their
infulences are obscure. Can't recall who originally said it, but I agree
with it.

I could hack out some blatant Plastikman rip-off, and play it for my
Grandmother (or the average Britney fan, I imagine) and she'd think it was
quite original, as she's never heard anything like that before. She
wouldn't like it, but she'd at least think it was really inventive.

If I played that same track for all you guys though... heh, you'd probably
all tell me to get off Richie's jock and come up with my own ideas. :)

Re: (313) the future (a different approach)

2004-04-21 Thread robin


Ronny Pries wrote:
 since this thread seems to be related to the things we know for a long
 time, i'd be interested in your 2 latest discoveries of which youthink
 they are new (you didn't know them before). may it be websites,
 movements, phenomenas or a band you just discovered, whatever. i'm
 pretty sure there are things to discover others didn't know before but
 are worth beeing checked out. i'm curious about the results.



interesting way of putting it ronny.

ok the biggest eye opener over the last year or so for me was how much 
disco/electro disco was relied on for samples (and more) by a lot of 
techno  producers that i thought were producing original stuff.


this ties in with what john coleman just posted:

I could hack out some blatant Plastikman rip-off, and play it for my
Grandmother (or the average Britney fan, I imagine) and she'd think it 
was

quite original, as she's never heard anything like that before. She
wouldn't like it, but she'd at least think it was really inventive.


robin...

(313) Let's put the future behind us!

2004-04-21 Thread Kent williams

http://tinyurl.com/2pggu

This is a really good book by the way.

kent williams -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cornwarning.com -- Eat a big bowl every day.

Re: (313) the future (a different approach)


am I doing this right? or have I missed the point (again?)

top 5 things I 'discovered' in the last year/two years that are old.

1) Club - Cosmic, Italy (and the crazy-ass music they played)
2) DJ - Daniele Baldelli
3) Logic (weird japanese electronic band)
4) Yadgar cafe (top lamb chops)
5) sitting down to watch music is rubbish.

alex
_

- End of message text 

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
give your consent to such monitoring

RE: (313) the future (a different approach)

2004-04-21 Thread Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)

I have discoved Space - yes, our Solar System and beyond. 
I have also discovered (or pehaps found is a more suitable word) Music
Production.

All quite future from my point of view. :0)

-Original Message-
From: Ronny Pries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 21 April 2004 1:02 
To: 313
Subject: Re: (313) the future (a different approach)

since this thread seems to be related to the things we know for a long 
time, i'd be interested in your 2 latest discoveries of which you think 
they are new (you didn't know them before). may it be websites, 
movements, phenomenas or a band you just discovered, whatever. i'm 
pretty sure there are things to discover others didn't know before but 
are worth beeing checked out. i'm curious about the results.

ronny

***
Opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and 
not Entergy-Koch Trading Limited or its affiliated companies. 
This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies 
and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently 
transmitted from the Company, are confidential and solely for the 
use of the intended recipient. It may contain material protected by 
attorney-client privilege. If you are not listed on the To or Cc 
lines of the original email (or are not the person responsible for 
delivering to an intended recipient), then you are not an intended 
recipient and have received this email in error.  Any use by an 
unintended recipient is strictly prohibited.

If you have received this email in error please notify the IT manager 
by telephone on +44 (0)20 7337 8300 or via email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], attaching this message. Please 
then delete this email and all attachments, and destroy any copies 
thereof.  Thank you.
***

RE: (313) the future (a different approach)


I have discoved Space

I saw it first, it's mine.
I just looked up one day and it was there.

weird.
_

- End of message text 

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
give your consent to such monitoring

Re: (313) the future (a different approach)

2004-04-21 Thread robin




1) Club - Cosmic, Italy (and the crazy-ass music they played)
2) DJ - Daniele Baldelli


got any sound files of these? anyone?

i've heard stuff about cosmic (and what substances fuled that 'scene') 
but never come across any examples of mixes or tapes etc...



3) Logic (weird japanese electronic band)
4) Yadgar cafe (top lamb chops)



5) sitting down to watch music is rubbish.


agreed

robin...

RE: (313) the future (a different approach)

2004-04-21 Thread Peteri, Jochem

ok here we go

1. johny cash
2. Jade cocoon 2(princess mononoke team goes PS2)
3. the girl nextdooromgomfg...
4. the render button in wavelab..only took me 4 sumtin years to notice it..
5. cd´s.no comment


The information contained in this e-mail communication is solely intended for 
the person/legal person to whom it  has been sent, and as it may contain 
information of a personal or confidential nature, it may not be made public by 
virtue of law, regulations or agreement. If someone other than the intended 
recipient should receive or come into possession of this e-mail communication, 
he/she will not be entitled to read, disseminate, disclose or duplicate it. If 
you are not the intended recipient, you are requested to inform the sender of 
this e-mail message of this immediately, and to destroy the original e-mail 
communication. Neither Randstad Holding nv nor its subsidiaries accept any 
liability for incorrect and incomplete transmission or delayed receipt of this 
e-mail.

(313) Playlist WNUR Chicago - 16 April 2004 - download it

2004-04-21 Thread yoav bernstein


funny thing, spinning alongside Tyree weekend :)



Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages
http://r.lycos.com/r/yp_emailfooter/http://yellowpages.lycos.com/default.asp?SRC=lycos10

AW: (313) the future (a different approach)

2004-04-21 Thread Katrin Richter

I am really exited about the fact that anything is possible. I am my own
future.



-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Ronny Pries [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 21. April 2004 14:02
An: 313
Betreff: Re: (313) the future (a different approach)

since this thread seems to be related to the things we know for a long
time, i'd be interested in your 2 latest discoveries of which you think
they are new (you didn't know them before). may it be websites,
movements, phenomenas or a band you just discovered, whatever. i'm
pretty sure there are things to discover others didn't know before but
are worth beeing checked out. i'm curious about the results.

ronny

Re: (313) the future (a different approach)

2004-04-21 Thread john harvey

i discovered that rice crispies are made from rice

RE: (313) the future





It will possibly be to modern techno what punk was to prog rock; it might
in fact sound terrifying..


oh my.no don't tell me.country music is the future?!

No! Please No!

MEK

(313) the future

2004-04-21 Thread Martin Dust

Techno Blues Idioms are the future, check DJ Bones new 12's - all 3 of them.

Martin

Re: (313) the future (Red Planet)





 Red Planet titles are all about native American Indian issues

well, in the US, Native American civil rights are still being fought out
I think it's still a futuristic topic - it might not involve getting in
your rocket ship and going to Planet X
(well maybe claiming Mars for indigenous peoples)

they're still fighting for their future

MEK

RE: (313) the future (Red Planet)

2004-04-21 Thread Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT)

How can Journey To The Martian Polar Cap have absolutely anything to do
with native American Indian issues?








 Red Planet titles are all about native American Indian issues




***
Opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and 
not Entergy-Koch Trading Limited or its affiliated companies. 
This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies 
and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently 
transmitted from the Company, are confidential and solely for the 
use of the intended recipient. It may contain material protected by 
attorney-client privilege. If you are not listed on the To or Cc 
lines of the original email (or are not the person responsible for 
delivering to an intended recipient), then you are not an intended 
recipient and have received this email in error.  Any use by an 
unintended recipient is strictly prohibited.

If you have received this email in error please notify the IT manager 
by telephone on +44 (0)20 7337 8300 or via email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], attaching this message. Please 
then delete this email and all attachments, and destroy any copies 
thereof.  Thank you.
***

RE: (313) the future (Red Planet)

2004-04-21 Thread Peteri, Jochem

that´s where the astral apache lives

-Original Message-
From: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: woensdag 21 april 2004 17:12
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: (313) the future (Red Planet)

How can Journey To The Martian Polar Cap have absolutely anything to do
with native American Indian issues?

The information contained in this e-mail communication is solely intended for 
the person/legal person to whom it  has been sent, and as it may contain 
information of a personal or confidential nature, it may not be made public by 
virtue of law, regulations or agreement. If someone other than the intended 
recipient should receive or come into possession of this e-mail communication, 
he/she will not be entitled to read, disseminate, disclose or duplicate it. If 
you are not the intended recipient, you are requested to inform the sender of 
this e-mail message of this immediately, and to destroy the original e-mail 
communication. Neither Randstad Holding nv nor its subsidiaries accept any 
liability for incorrect and incomplete transmission or delayed receipt of this 
e-mail.

Re: (313) the future (Red Planet)


they're still fighting for their future

yeah, I appreciate that - it wasn't meant to offend anyone or anything, it
was just used as an example.
I was just trying to say their titles used to be about 'space' or
something, but even they don't seem to be themed around that.
I wasn't trying to say these weren't important issues in anyway or
anything.

so, yeah, this is me apologising, sorry, no offence meant there.

alex
*just needed to clear that one up*
_

- End of message text 

This e-mail is sent by the above named in their
individual, non-business capacity and is not on
behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers.

PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming
e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and
telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you
give your consent to such monitoring

RE: (313) the future (Red Planet)

Native americans were the first to depict UFOs in their art - there is also a 
history of African-American writing centred around the idea of the black man as 
a lost alien race.
-Original Message-
From: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 3:12 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: (313) the future (Red Planet)

How can Journey To The Martian Polar Cap have absolutely anything to do
with native American Indian issues?

 Red Planet titles are all about native American Indian issues

***
Opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and 
not Entergy-Koch Trading Limited or its affiliated companies. 
This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies 
and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently 
transmitted from the Company, are confidential and solely for the 
use of the intended recipient. It may contain material protected by 
attorney-client privilege. If you are not listed on the To or Cc 
lines of the original email (or are not the person responsible for 
delivering to an intended recipient), then you are not an intended 
recipient and have received this email in error.  Any use by an 
unintended recipient is strictly prohibited.

If you have received this email in error please notify the IT manager 
by telephone on +44 (0)20 7337 8300 or via email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], attaching this message. Please 
then delete this email and all attachments, and destroy any copies 
thereof.  Thank you.
***

#
Note:

Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily 
represent 
those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This 
email 
and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of 
the 
individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this 
email in 
error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thank You.
#

Re: (313) the future

2004-04-21 Thread robin



in my view there are several things at play that make the particular
brand of 'futurism' that techno is based on obsolete in this day and age.

firstly electronic synthesizers produce futuristic noises (in a
hackneyed 50's kind of way...theremins to blame here :) ). people now
don't think of the future when they hear electronic noises, they are 
more likely thing who the f__k is ringing me on my mobile phone now.

if you think the noises coming out of your moog sound futuristic (ok
this still works on me) then you are more likely to produce a futuristic
feel to the way you approach music and surround that music with 
futuristic imagery and names.


secondly techno, whilst undeniably based on earlier music, is an 80s
phenomena. up until the 80s most science fiction (especially that shown
in film) perpetuated the 50s style of optimistic futurism. sci-fi
writing got a lot darker during the 80s with cyber-punks etc (tho Philip
K Dick had been doing this for years, i digress) and now mass media has
caught on to that less than bright view of things (almost all sci-fi in
films is of this type now). it's far harder to have a musical concept
that appeals to people in a club that is _that_ dystopian.

thirdly, as has already been pointed out people now don't view the
technology as being the thing we aim for in the future (it's a given)
and look at a future where interpersonal relationships, rather than
peoples relationships with the technology, are focused on. possibly with
more of a focus on some kind of spirituality (see psy/goa trance?).

there's more to be said here but i better get some work done :)

my 2p

robin...



[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

whatever happened to the future?
did it become an outdated concept?
all the bands I've seen lately have harked to the past,
really heavily. All the records I buy are obsessed with the past, or are
old.

even techno isn't futuristic any more. Jeff Mills scores films from the
'20's, Red Planet titles are all about native american indian issues,
instead of sex in zero gravity or journey to the martian polar
cap.. There's no time, space, transmat business anymore. I mean,
even the word transmat was made up wasn't it? No one does that any more,
there's no dreamers left, just flippin' historians.

so why? is it too scary to contemplate any more?

RE: (313) the future (Red Planet)

2004-04-21 Thread Cobert, Gwendal

?? Interesting, would you have pointers to both these UFOs and these books ?
Gwendal

-Original Message-
From: Robert Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 6:21 PM
To: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT); [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: (313) the future (Red Planet)

Native americans were the first to depict UFOs in their art - there is also a 
history of African-American writing centred around the idea of the black man as 
a lost alien race.
-Original Message-
From: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 3:12 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: (313) the future (Red Planet)

How can Journey To The Martian Polar Cap have absolutely anything to do
with native American Indian issues?

 Red Planet titles are all about native American Indian issues

***
Opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and 
not Entergy-Koch Trading Limited or its affiliated companies. 
This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies 
and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently 
transmitted from the Company, are confidential and solely for the 
use of the intended recipient. It may contain material protected by 
attorney-client privilege. If you are not listed on the To or Cc 
lines of the original email (or are not the person responsible for 
delivering to an intended recipient), then you are not an intended 
recipient and have received this email in error.  Any use by an 
unintended recipient is strictly prohibited.

If you have received this email in error please notify the IT manager 
by telephone on +44 (0)20 7337 8300 or via email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], attaching this message. Please 
then delete this email and all attachments, and destroy any copies 
thereof.  Thank you.
***

#
Note:

Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily 
represent 
those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This 
email 
and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of 
the 
individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this 
email in 
error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thank You.
#

RE: (313) the future (Red Planet)

2004-04-21 Thread quest pond

Ahh i love to disagree with you Rob...again.:)

I don't think so here there are art works in australia with strange beings
and craft, don't ask me for details- sorry. These could be anything up to
40,000 years old.


Quest Pond

-Original Message-
From: Robert Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 9:21 AM
To: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT); [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: (313) the future (Red Planet)


Native americans were the first to depict UFOs in their art - there is
also a history of African-American writing centred around the idea of the
black man as a lost alien race.
-Original Message-
From: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 3:12 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: (313) the future (Red Planet)


How can Journey To The Martian Polar Cap have absolutely anything to do
with native American Indian issues?








 Red Planet titles are all about native American Indian issues





***
Opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and
not Entergy-Koch Trading Limited or its affiliated companies.
This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies
and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently
transmitted from the Company, are confidential and solely for the
use of the intended recipient. It may contain material protected by
attorney-client privilege. If you are not listed on the To or Cc
lines of the original email (or are not the person responsible for
delivering to an intended recipient), then you are not an intended
recipient and have received this email in error.  Any use by an
unintended recipient is strictly prohibited.

If you have received this email in error please notify the IT manager
by telephone on +44 (0)20 7337 8300 or via email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED], attaching this message. Please
then delete this email and all attachments, and destroy any copies
thereof.  Thank you.

***


#
Note:

Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily
represent
those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated.
This email
and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use
of the
individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this
email in
error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thank You.

#

RE: (313) the future (Red Planet)

The Mayans have engravings of Mayan flying spaceships  - but the 
interpretations by fools like Von Daniken are quite obviously wishful thinking.
As for books, I haven't read much science fiction (I am only relating what I 
have been told and from watching a TV programme I'll tell you about in a sec)  
but musically George Clinton plays with the idea a lot and there is a John 
Sayles' film called Brother From Another Planet which is about an alien 
visiting Earth whose appearance is as a black man.
 There is a programme about black science fiction and music called The 
Mothership Connection that I can send to you if you need further edification - 
it's got May and Atkins in it, as well as Ninja-style masked Mike Banks - 
writers like Samuel Delaney talk about this 'mothership connection' too.

-Original Message-
From: Cobert, Gwendal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 3:27 PM
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: (313) the future (Red Planet)


?? Interesting, would you have pointers to both these UFOs and these books ?
Gwendal

-Original Message-
From: Robert Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 6:21 PM
To: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT); [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: (313) the future (Red Planet)


Native americans were the first to depict UFOs in their art - there is also a 
history of African-American writing centred around the idea of the black man as 
a lost alien race.
-Original Message-
From: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 3:12 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: (313) the future (Red Planet)


How can Journey To The Martian Polar Cap have absolutely anything to do
with native American Indian issues?








 Red Planet titles are all about native American Indian issues




***
Opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and 
not Entergy-Koch Trading Limited or its affiliated companies. 
This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies 
and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently 
transmitted from the Company, are confidential and solely for the 
use of the intended recipient. It may contain material protected by 
attorney-client privilege. If you are not listed on the To or Cc 
lines of the original email (or are not the person responsible for 
delivering to an intended recipient), then you are not an intended 
recipient and have received this email in error.  Any use by an 
unintended recipient is strictly prohibited.

If you have received this email in error please notify the IT manager 
by telephone on +44 (0)20 7337 8300 or via email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], attaching this message. Please 
then delete this email and all attachments, and destroy any copies 
thereof.  Thank you.
***

#
Note:

Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily 
represent 
those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This 
email 
and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of 
the 
individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this 
email in 
error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thank You.
#


#
Note:

Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily 
represent 
those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This 
email 
and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of 
the 
individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this 
email in 
error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thank You.
#

RE: (313) the future (Red Planet)

Okay maybe not the first, but crackpot theorists do get good mileage out of the 
Incan and Mayan civilisations' supposed secret knowledge of alien technology, 
just as they do with other prehistorical civilisations - haven't you seen 
Stargate?

-Original Message-
From: quest pond [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 8:40 AM
To: Robert Taylor; Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT);
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: (313) the future (Red Planet)

Ahh i love to disagree with you Rob...again.:)

I don't think so here there are art works in australia with strange beings
and craft, don't ask me for details- sorry. These could be anything up to
40,000 years old.

Quest Pond

-Original Message-
From: Robert Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 9:21 AM
To: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT); [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: (313) the future (Red Planet)

Native americans were the first to depict UFOs in their art - there is
also a history of African-American writing centred around the idea of the
black man as a lost alien race.
-Original Message-
From: Blackman, Ryan (UKEKT) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 3:12 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: RE: (313) the future (Red Planet)

How can Journey To The Martian Polar Cap have absolutely anything to do
with native American Indian issues?

 Red Planet titles are all about native American Indian issues

***
Opinions expressed in this email are those of the individual and
not Entergy-Koch Trading Limited or its affiliated companies.
This email and any files transmitted with it, including replies
and forwarded copies (which may contain alterations) subsequently
transmitted from the Company, are confidential and solely for the
use of the intended recipient. It may contain material protected by
attorney-client privilege. If you are not listed on the To or Cc
lines of the original email (or are not the person responsible for
delivering to an intended recipient), then you are not an intended
recipient and have received this email in error.  Any use by an
unintended recipient is strictly prohibited.

If you have received this email in error please notify the IT manager
by telephone on +44 (0)20 7337 8300 or via email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED], attaching this message. Please
then delete this email and all attachments, and destroy any copies
thereof.  Thank you.

***

#
Note:

Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily
represent
those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated.
This email
and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use
of the
individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this
email in
error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thank You.

#

#
Note:

Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily 
represent 
those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This 
email 
and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of 
the 
individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this 
email in 
error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thank You.
#

(313) who is dynarec?

2004-04-21 Thread Lee Herrington IV



  i'm sure the info has already been posted before...  forgive me.  i wonder
if anyone can provide a bio of the producer behind dynarec.  i'm diggin' the
user input LP

  cheers,
  lrh

(313) black science fiction





came across this on Amazon but then I went to the publisher page

Visions of the Third MillenniumBlack Science Fiction Novelists...   $21.95
Visions of the Third MillenniumBlack Science Fiction Novelists Write the
Future by Sandra M. Grayson
In Visions of the Third Millennium: Black Science Fiction Novelists Write
the Future, Sandra M. Grayson analyzes how writers of African descent use
the codes of science fiction to explore race and gender, myth and language,
slavery ... study is concerned with how Black science fiction writers
interweave the memories of enslaved ...

sorry, that's all it had. I tried to find more but the next page resulted
in an error
still, this looks good

MEK

(313) Much Better Read

2004-04-21 Thread Martin Dust



Visions of the Nth Millennium Lesbo's In Wheelchairs With Only One Eye And
Leprosy Science Fiction Novelists Write the
Future by Sandra M. Grayson   $5U.CK

Re: (313) the future (a different approach)

2004-04-21 Thread Greg Earle


My 2 latest discoveries:

(1) London is the most expensive city on Earth, surpassing Tokyo
(2) The ubiquity of EM: Sky Ear - http://www.haque.co.uk/skyear.php

- Greg (who has seen every Moon Landing, and thought we'd all be in
Jetsons-mobiles by now - or at least Ford GT90's - and
is very pissed off that we aren't)

(313) black mahogani

2004-04-21 Thread Thomas D. Cox, Jr.

i said id comment on the tracks last week but i forgot. so here 
goes: 

roberta jean machine is some absolutely brillaint business. far 
and away the best new joint. it has these really immense strings 
with a shuffly almost latin sounding beat and vocals from roberta 
sweed. not a full vocal kinda thing, but very sweet. 

mahogani 9000 (i think, this record is labeled kinda funky) is a 
fast minimal techno tune, sort of in the vein of on my way home 
from silence in the secret garden. again, a very nice tune. 

holiday is a sort of abstract downtempo kind of number. very 
strage, actually. 

some of the other new titles are a little weird, like i need 
you so much is basically a downtempo into jazz piece 
to runaway. its one big long track. riley's song appears to be 
a noise intro to the back at bakers. 

im doing fine has a slightly different arrangement, with some 
female sounding backup vocals. shades of jae sounds like the 
original mix, though i havent compared them side by side. i dont 
have the original mix of black mahogani to compare to the 
version on this either. 

tom 


andythepooh.com

Re: (313) the future (a different approach)

2004-04-21 Thread Martin Dust


 
 (1) London is the most expensive city on Earth, surpassing Tokyo

NYC can trash London any day - Greg only a tourist would buy wine in Pizza
Express...

Re: (313) black science fiction

2004-04-21 Thread Thomas D. Cox, Jr.


for sci-fi by a black author, i cant say enough good things about
samuel delany's dhalgren. i even suspect the city is at least
somewhat based on detroit because they mention other local midwest
cities and dont mention it. great book, and not really
strictly future related

tom


-- Original Message --
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date:  Wed, 21 Apr 2004 11:17:13 -0500





came across this on Amazon but then I went to the publisher page

Visions of the Third MillenniumBlack Science Fiction
Novelists...   $21.95
Visions of the Third MillenniumBlack Science Fiction Novelists
Write the
Future by Sandra M. Grayson
In Visions of the Third Millennium: Black Science Fiction
Novelists Write
the Future, Sandra M. Grayson analyzes how writers of African
descent use
the codes of science fiction to explore race and gender, myth and
language,
slavery ... study is concerned with how Black science fiction
writers
interweave the memories of enslaved ...

sorry, that's all it had. I tried to find more but the next page
resulted
in an error
still, this looks good

MEK





andythepooh.com

RE: (313) the future (a different approach)

Only an American tourist would travel halfway across the world to go to a Pizza 
Express, instead of a curry on Brick Lane!

sorry Greg

-Original Message-
From: Martin Dust [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 5:31 PM
To: 313@hyperreal.org
Subject: Re: (313) the future (a different approach)

 (1) London is the most expensive city on Earth, surpassing Tokyo

NYC can trash London any day - Greg only a tourist would buy wine in Pizza
Express...

#
Note:

Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily 
represent 
those of Channel Four Television Corporation unless specifically stated. This 
email 
and any files transmitted are confidential and intended solely for the use of 
the 
individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this 
email in 
error, please notify [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thank You.
#

Re: (313) the future

2004-04-21 Thread J. T.

therefore it could very well be that you are surrounded by much more
futuristic music then you'd think, you just don't recognise it as such, as
it's not compattible with your view of the future.

i thought this was very well put.
i don't have much of a conception of the future right now, my vision is
pretty nearsighted. which sort of makese sense as technology has stopped
making distinct advances and instead moves along in subtle improvements. in
the 80's there was the jump into the digital age, now everything seems just
further refinements of existing technology, pushing digital further.
socially/politically, things are just sort of stagnant these days, going
nowhere, fermenting. so anyways it kind of fits somehow that much new music
consists of refining or bulding upon past styles.

there was a real energy of vision about the future in the 80's and early
90's. it may be in the past now, but things were just plain more futuristic
then. because now futurism perpetuates a sense of the present, its a
paradox. try looking to the future now and a concrete sense of the present
overwhelms it. but the present is refining and reusing the past. so look to
the past, and you end up in the present again, or with a retro idea of the
future. retro futurism is the most powerful futurism right now, even if it's
obsolete.

or something. i'm confused.

_
Lose those love handles! MSN Fitness shows you two moves to slim your waist.
http://fitness.msn.com/articles/feeds/article.aspx?dept=exercisearticle=et_pv_030104_lovehandles

RE: (313) the future

 -Original Message-
 From: robin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 21 April 2004 16:25
 
 secondly techno, whilst undeniably based on earlier music, is an 80s
 phenomena. up until the 80s most science fiction (especially 
 that shown in film) perpetuated the 50s style of optimistic futurism. 
 sci-fi writing got a lot darker during the 80s with cyber-punks etc 
 (tho Philip K Dick had been doing this for years, i digress)

Or you could go even further back and look at the dystopianism of 
early writers like Wells, Huxley, Stapledon and Zamyatin - a lot of 
science fiction from early on in the 20th century had fairly pessimistic 
overtones, and quite rightly so, as things like WW1 and WW2 were yet to 
come. But it's definitely true that it was only in the 1960s that that 
sort of thing started to take hold again, after the hugely optimistic 
post-war era.

 and now mass media has caught on to that less than bright view of 
 things (almost all sci-fi in films is of this type now). it's far harder 
 to have a musical concept that appeals to people in a club that is _that_ 
 dystopian.

True, but on the other hand it's not unimaginable. A lot of techno music 
that's been going down well in clubs these last 15 years has been very 
dark, very apocalyptic; it's not all been sweetness and light. And then 
when you look at labels like PCP, producers like The Mover and so on, there's 
been a sub-strand of electronic music active for a while which you could 
say presents that grim and pessimistic view of the future.

 thirdly, as has already been pointed out people now don't view the
 technology as being the thing we aim for in the future (it's a given)
 and look at a future where interpersonal relationships, rather than
 peoples relationships with the technology, are focused on. 
 possibly with
 more of a focus on some kind of spirituality (see psy/goa trance?).

I quite like the idea of the future still being summed up by technological 
advances, but that these technological advances are not necessarily sparkly 
and bright; perhaps they're quite scary and quite worrying to a lot of 
people. We're at a stage where a lot of things on the horizon are very 
contentious and a bit disturbing; genetics, nanotechnology, etc etc. And 
god only knows what sorts of weapons are going to be developed and deployed 
in the next 50 years. So maybe one futuristic theme that can be adopted at 
present is the idea of scary technology? Maybe Radioactivity is a more 
futuristic piece of music right now than Computer World or Numbers?

Brendan

RE: (313) the future (a different approach)

 -Original Message-
 From: Greg Earle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 21 April 2004 17:22
 
   - Greg (who has seen every Moon Landing, and thought 
 we'd all be in Jetsons-mobiles by now - or at least Ford 
 GT90's - and is very pissed off that we aren't)

I can't remember who said it, but I like that quote that goes:
When I was young, I always dreamed that I'd see the first human 
land on the moon. I never imagined that I'd live to see the last

Brendan

Re: (313) Much Better Read