Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s
JT/313, Yeah, the whole wave thing is a tad confusing, maybe we should put mixes together from all the waves to present day so people can get a grasp on the history, I know it all sounds a bit crass but it would help people get into it more. So today's question would be who would be it which wave, lets start with the first. Cybotron Number of Names On the question of BS, well - how else to you get someone to read your blog without kicking off about something or getting something wonderfully wrong. md 24/7/03 10:04 PM J. [EMAIL PROTECTED] oops...had to censor dan, now i see why it wasnt coming thru.. btw the mideastern cover of midnight express is by some group called D'Oud (sp?) and..is on some album of theirs whose name i've already forgotten...midnight serenade? something like that... http://www.hollowearth.org/2003_07_01_oldcrap.html#105900011446418148 Matthew Ingram on 29 Detroit 12s. With label scans, you choo choo spotters. tried to post this earlier but nothing happened... there were a couple curtin records mentioned so i pointed dan to the page..he sez Interesting list. Yeah, I never got that whole wave thing. I always thought that Carl Craig waspart of the 3rd wave, I never knew that I was even any wave...I think this dude thinks I'm from Detroit or something...I get that sh*t all of the time. What's more interesting is that if you scroll down you will find a record called Biotic which he is raving about and he credits it to Kenny Larkin...hey wait a minute, that's MY recordha! I'll have to write him... i always thought everybody on techno2 was generally considered 2nd wave, but guess i dont understand the wave thing either..oh well...the whole kirk d/detroit-influence critique on that page gets to me, seem likes music critic bs, instead of listening based ugh...writing off b12, kirkd, terrace, etc as reduction and too reverential, how do you make that sort of judgement..calling something copycat is another story, but this stuff clearly was not that...gee i just thought it was dope music...everything is influenced by something, sheesh! what a bunch of nonsense! ahh well..i dig the record section on that page anyways.. btw dan's first mix he's bothered to record will be online shortly, its pretty nice! will post a link soon.. jt ps on npr right now they are talking about some mideastern guys who have remade moroder's midnight express soundtrack on traditional instruments! and playing a lot of moroder's original in the background as well..nice.. _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s
So today's question would be who would be it which wave, lets start with the first. Cybotron Number of Names This is what I think: First Wave: --- Juan Atkins, Marty Bonds, Derrick May, Kevin Saunderson, Blake Baxter, Anthony Shakir, Eddie Fowlkes Second Wave: Carl Craig, Jeff Mills, Mad Mike, Octave One, Jay Denham, Mark Kinchen, A Guy Called Gerald (not detroit) Third Wave: Claude Young, ... Euh.. I´m having a bit of a third wave blackout at the moment. Cheers, Maarten
Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s
First Wave: --- Juan Atkins, Marty Bonds, Derrick May, Kevin Saunderson, Blake Baxter, Anthony Shakir, Eddie Fowlkes Well don't forget Alan Oldham, dunno if he is 1st or 2nd wave but i have been told that his radio show was quit influential Second Wave: Carl Craig, Jeff Mills, Mad Mike, Octave One, Jay Denham, Mark Kinchen, A Guy Called Gerald (not detroit) Kenny Larkin, Richie Hawtin... Third Wave: Claude Young, ... Euh.. I´m having a bit of a third wave blackout at the moment. Stacey Pullen, Keith Tucker
(313) Waves was Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s
you know what, i've always thought the use of the term 'waves' when talking about detroit techno was a bit wrong headed and i'd not figured out why i've thought this until now... the problems i have with this are that firstly i've always thought that the wave thing was used by people who had heard of Tofflers work but hadn't read it (but knew that it had some bearing on detroit techno) and more importantly, and the idea of the one wave mix illustrates this, that at any one point the music dj'd by a dj of any particular wave would have been a huge array of music up to that point, so the context of the new 'wave' of music (see i'm using the term now...) would be completely lost. another obvious problem is the fact that a lot of the producers listed in each wave are still going and i'm sure they hate being labelled with waves as it dismisses any new stuff they come up with as 'old-hat' boy do i sound like a grumpy b*d today. still, nice to see music discussion on the list. robin...
Re: (313) Waves was Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s
While I agree Robin, I'm not trying to make this into a year zero thing, no point really. What I'm interested in doing is getting a good list together of the players, doing a mix of the tunes and adding some biog info. We could always do a mix of tunes that influenced the first wave, there's plenty of references points and I know there's a couple of the early players lurking on the list, should be to hard. And if we through in a copy of Dan's book and a couple of articles for good measure, it should make it easy for people to get into the History and therefore push the present into the future. Alan is defo first wave in my book, he played tunes of techno on his radio show back in the day so I'd place in the first wave for this reason. I think we should include people who also made a difference, not just DJ/Musicians but people who supported the movement. 25/7/03 9:46 AM robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] you know what, i've always thought the use of the term 'waves' when talking about detroit techno was a bit wrong headed and i'd not figured out why i've thought this until now... the problems i have with this are that firstly i've always thought that the wave thing was used by people who had heard of Tofflers work but hadn't read it (but knew that it had some bearing on detroit techno) and more importantly, and the idea of the one wave mix illustrates this, that at any one point the music dj'd by a dj of any particular wave would have been a huge array of music up to that point, so the context of the new 'wave' of music (see i'm using the term now...) would be completely lost. another obvious problem is the fact that a lot of the producers listed in each wave are still going and i'm sure they hate being labelled with waves as it dismisses any new stuff they come up with as 'old-hat' boy do i sound like a grumpy b*d today. still, nice to see music discussion on the list. robin...
Re: (313) Waves was Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s
hi martin, don't get me the wrong way, i think history of this stuff is very important and sometimes it's good to have this stuff down in a way that isn't jounalism with an agenda (see blogs stuff etc). i like the way you're headed with this tho. i'm complaining about waves in the same way i complain about genres, and microgenresi use em, as we all do, but it doesn't stop me thinking they prevent a certain creativity... (it's a mistaking the menu for the meal situation for me) peace robin... While I agree Robin, I'm not trying to make this into a year zero thing, no point really. What I'm interested in doing is getting a good list together of the players, doing a mix of the tunes and adding some biog info. We could always do a mix of tunes that influenced the first wave, there's plenty of references points and I know there's a couple of the early players lurking on the list, should be to hard. And if we through in a copy of Dan's book and a couple of articles for good measure, it should make it easy for people to get into the History and therefore push the present into the future.
RE: (313) 29 Detroit 12s
Second Wave: Mark Kinchen Who's that ?? never heard of him... looked him up on Discogs, he has quite a number of remixes, that's all... has he released 12s or LPs on his own ? Gwendal
Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s
Second Wave: Mark Kinchen Who's that ?? never heard of him... looked him up on Discogs, he has quite a number of remixes, that's all... has he released 12s or LPs on his own ? He is also recording as MK, he did a track for retroactive records and had a label of his own called Area 10. http://www.discogs.com/artist/MK Cheers, Maarten
Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s
Also released under 'seperate mind... We need somebody/ ist bass on express records... On 25/7/03 12:23 pm, Maarten Baute [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Second Wave: Mark Kinchen Who's that ?? never heard of him... looked him up on Discogs, he has quite a number of remixes, that's all... has he released 12s or LPs on his own ? He is also recording as MK, he did a track for retroactive records and had a label of his own called Area 10. http://www.discogs.com/artist/MK Cheers, Maarten
Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s
He also was part of Seperate Minds... On vrijdag, jul 25, 2003, at 13:23 Europe/Amsterdam, Maarten Baute wrote: Second Wave: Mark Kinchen Who's that ?? never heard of him... looked him up on Discogs, he has quite a number of remixes, that's all... has he released 12s or LPs on his own ? He is also recording as MK, he did a track for retroactive records and had a label of his own called Area 10. http://www.discogs.com/artist/MK Cheers, Maarten
Re: (313) Waves was Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s
Yeah, the whole wave thing is a tad confusing, maybe we should put mixes yeah..i think i am with robin on the waves thing...but more mixes/comps would be cool yes ;P kinda like retakes on the original Techno comps, 10+ years later, which is not a bad idea at all...for those who like history :P (aka classics ! haha) On the question of BS, well - how else to you get someone to read your blog without kicking off about something or getting something wonderfully wrong. haha good point..altho i do get what he's saying about some music being so reverential that it doesnt push things forward much, tho i dunno if i would use the word reduction...not everyone is an originator/innovator :P this is really such a typical notion of techno fans (and many producers..), techno has to keep progressing and new styles and blah blah blah, but i think innovation is highly overrated. its important but only as an afterthought, y'know just basic unique ideas and expressions, creativity are whats most important to any music imo, it's what leads to innovation i guess..it's a natural process, but its not natural to expect innovation at every turn...and besides, legacy is important...without all that stuff he writes off as reduction, b12, terrace, etc etc...i mean that stuff -- and detroit-influenced stuff in general -- plays/played an important part in building upon the detroit myth, and in keeping the sound alive and current/fresh etc...without that dialogue happening, all you have is time-compartmentalized (issat a word?) music, which is a shame and against the spirit of music to begin with imo...some people's tastes change, are more impatient than others' i guess...yeah anyways...bad idea to write this early in am haha jt _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s
You left out Rob Hood from the second wave. _d -- Original Message - Subject: Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 10:56:32 +0200 From: Maarten Baute [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED], 313@hyperreal.org So today's question would be who would be it which wave, lets start with the first. Cybotron Number of Names This is what I think: First Wave: --- Juan Atkins, Marty Bonds, Derrick May, Kevin Saunderson, Blake Baxter, Anthony Shakir, Eddie Fowlkes Second Wave: Carl Craig, Jeff Mills, Mad Mike, Octave One, Jay Denham, Mark Kinchen, A Guy Called Gerald (not detroit) Third Wave: Claude Young, ... Euh.. I´m having a bit of a third wave blackout at the moment. Cheers, Maarten
Re: (313) Waves was Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s
Yeah, the whole wave thing is a tad confusing, maybe we should put mixes yeah..i think i am with robin on the waves thing...but more mixes/comps would be cool yes ;P kinda like retakes on the original Techno comps, 10+ years later, which is not a bad idea at all...for those who like history :P (aka classics ! haha) yeah we need someone to make a compilation of properly licensed older music (that'll never get proper represses) before the bootleggers beat em to it... :) robin...
RE: (313) Waves was Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s
Robin: yeah we need someone to make a compilation of properly licensed older music (that'll never get proper represses) before the bootleggers beat em to it... :) ack, where's Neil Rushton when you need him? ;) Rob
Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s
Nice bits of trainspotterisation.. Colour photo's would have been better tho :) F.y.i it is a bootleg. Tell alexi was released on pheerce citi. 002. The 'wiggin' track..i think is actually 'sinistwer' also released on pheerce citi #1 I think the art vader also had rufneck - the power,the rhythm on it which was an old ny tune released in 89 on ny underground records. Art Vader EP. I'm not sure if this is a bootleg. It's got Tell Alexei by K.Alexei Shelby, one of his characteristic moan tracks: Tell Alexei how much you love him, nice Steve Poindexter-esque whistles and shekere. That figues K.Alexei was from Chicago too. Art Vader EP also features Mayday's Wiggin without the steel drums that spice it up on the Innovator Network 6-tracker, which I aint seen on Transmat. And the 8:56 waterloo - shepperton train is :) Placid -- http://www.acid-house.net Everything you wanted to know about acid house On 24/7/03 10:30 am, Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.hollowearth.org/2003_07_01_oldcrap.html#105900011446418148 Matthew Ingram on 29 Detroit 12s. With label scans, you choo choo spotters.
Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s
hmm, while we're on the subject of K-Alexi, has anyone ever seen his re-edit of Nightlife Unlimited's Peaches Prunes available? Supposedly he did it how he remembered Ron Hardy's edit... anyone? _ - End of message text This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you give your consent to such monitoring
Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s
never seen KA Shelby's version.I thought the version on Automan (2?) was Hardy's re-edit...then there's Theo's edit.and Farley usde to play a nice edit too..then there's a house remix by Diesel #1 and Mark Imperial samples it heavily on one of his Laurent X releases from about 88..then of course the original version on the Unidisc LP which is a much more full bodied disco release where the break sampled by eveyrone else only really lasts for about 4 bars... on 24/7/03 7:35 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hmm, while we're on the subject of K-Alexi, has anyone ever seen his re-edit of Nightlife Unlimited's Peaches Prunes available? Supposedly he did it how he remembered Ron Hardy's edit... anyone? _ - End of message text This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you give your consent to such monitoring
Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s
never seen KA Shelby's version.I thought the version on Automan (2?) was Hardy's re-edit... A mate of mine is a journalist and he was interviewing an old chicago head. Apparently the automan is k-alexi's edit, but it was also available on a 12 with something else on. (Which is presumably what they bootlegged it from?) Apparently K-Alexi did the edit in the way he used to remember Ron Hardy doing it - I think Ron H's edit was a reel only thing. Oh, man, I wonder who has all those old reels - they'll be sat in someones loft somewhere! there's Theo's edit.and Farley usde to play a nice edit too..then there's a house remix by Diesel #1 and Mark Imperial samples it heavily on one of his Laurent X releases from about 88.. I've not heard any of these! How's the theo one - is that the 'mustang' thing? I never managed to get one of them.. Has anyone got an mp3 of it? then of course the original version on the Unidisc LP which is a much more full bodied disco release where the break sampled by eveyrone else only really lasts for about 4 bars... I have this one : ) _ - End of message text This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you give your consent to such monitoring
RE: (313) 29 Detroit 12s
Has anybody else got a copy of 'Essence Of A Dream' by Risque III (K Alexi etc.) on Stride Records out of Chicago? I think is by far one of K Alexi's best tracks... way ahead of it's time. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 July 2003 11:39 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s never seen KA Shelby's version.I thought the version on Automan (2?) was Hardy's re-edit... A mate of mine is a journalist and he was interviewing an old chicago head. Apparently the automan is k-alexi's edit, but it was also available on a 12 with something else on. (Which is presumably what they bootlegged it from?) Apparently K-Alexi did the edit in the way he used to remember Ron Hardy doing it - I think Ron H's edit was a reel only thing. Oh, man, I wonder who has all those old reels - they'll be sat in someones loft somewhere! there's Theo's edit.and Farley usde to play a nice edit too..then there's a house remix by Diesel #1 and Mark Imperial samples it heavily on one of his Laurent X releases from about 88.. I've not heard any of these! How's the theo one - is that the 'mustang' thing? I never managed to get one of them.. Has anyone got an mp3 of it? then of course the original version on the Unidisc LP which is a much more full bodied disco release where the break sampled by eveyrone else only really lasts for about 4 bars... I have this one : ) _ - End of message text This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you give your consent to such monitoring
Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s
Yep.. And with the 'ungle dj' inspired flip it is a badass 12:... Also got the remix 12 on stride.. Video mind which has the original essence of a dream on it and a v nice subtle remix with extra percussion and synthy noises... Placid -- http://www.acid-house.net Everything you wanted to know about acid house On 24/7/03 2:26 pm, Dave Parsons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anybody else got a copy of 'Essence Of A Dream' by Risque III (K Alexi etc.) on Stride Records out of Chicago? I think is by far one of K Alexi's best tracks... way ahead of it's time. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 July 2003 11:39 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s never seen KA Shelby's version.I thought the version on Automan (2?) was Hardy's re-edit... A mate of mine is a journalist and he was interviewing an old chicago head. Apparently the automan is k-alexi's edit, but it was also available on a 12 with something else on. (Which is presumably what they bootlegged it from?) Apparently K-Alexi did the edit in the way he used to remember Ron Hardy doing it - I think Ron H's edit was a reel only thing. Oh, man, I wonder who has all those old reels - they'll be sat in someones loft somewhere! there's Theo's edit.and Farley usde to play a nice edit too..then there's a house remix by Diesel #1 and Mark Imperial samples it heavily on one of his Laurent X releases from about 88.. I've not heard any of these! How's the theo one - is that the 'mustang' thing? I never managed to get one of them.. Has anyone got an mp3 of it? then of course the original version on the Unidisc LP which is a much more full bodied disco release where the break sampled by eveyrone else only really lasts for about 4 bars... I have this one : ) _ - End of message text This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you give your consent to such monitoring
RE: (313) 29 Detroit 12s
Has anybody else got a copy of 'Essence Of A Dream' by Risque III (K Alexi etc.) on Stride Records out of Chicago? Oh boy. Oh yes. Everyone should own that record! Risque madness is good too : ) _ - End of message text This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you give your consent to such monitoring
RE: (313) 29 Detroit 12s
I do too!! :o) Beautiful tune I still need that remix on stride though. I have an extra copy of more than just a dance on Chicago Connection if anyone in the London area is up for a swap?? -Original Message- From: Placid [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 July 2003 14:34 To: 313 Subject: Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s Yep.. And with the 'ungle dj' inspired flip it is a badass 12:... Also got the remix 12 on stride.. Video mind which has the original essence of a dream on it and a v nice subtle remix with extra percussion and synthy noises... Placid -- http://www.acid-house.net Everything you wanted to know about acid house On 24/7/03 2:26 pm, Dave Parsons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anybody else got a copy of 'Essence Of A Dream' by Risque III (K Alexi etc.) on Stride Records out of Chicago? I think is by far one of K Alexi's best tracks... way ahead of it's time. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 24 July 2003 11:39 To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s never seen KA Shelby's version.I thought the version on Automan (2?) was Hardy's re-edit... A mate of mine is a journalist and he was interviewing an old chicago head. Apparently the automan is k-alexi's edit, but it was also available on a 12 with something else on. (Which is presumably what they bootlegged it from?) Apparently K-Alexi did the edit in the way he used to remember Ron Hardy doing it - I think Ron H's edit was a reel only thing. Oh, man, I wonder who has all those old reels - they'll be sat in someones loft somewhere! there's Theo's edit.and Farley usde to play a nice edit too..then there's a house remix by Diesel #1 and Mark Imperial samples it heavily on one of his Laurent X releases from about 88.. I've not heard any of these! How's the theo one - is that the 'mustang' thing? I never managed to get one of them.. Has anyone got an mp3 of it? then of course the original version on the Unidisc LP which is a much more full bodied disco release where the break sampled by eveyrone else only really lasts for about 4 bars... I have this one : ) _ - End of message text This e-mail is sent by the above named in their individual, non-business capacity and is not on behalf of PricewaterhouseCoopers. PricewaterhouseCoopers may monitor outgoing and incoming e-mails and other telecommunications on its e-mail and telecommunications systems. By replying to this e-mail you give your consent to such monitoring
Re: (313) 29 Detroit 12s
oops...had to censor dan, now i see why it wasnt coming thru.. btw the mideastern cover of midnight express is by some group called D'Oud (sp?) and..is on some album of theirs whose name i've already forgotten...midnight serenade? something like that... http://www.hollowearth.org/2003_07_01_oldcrap.html#105900011446418148 Matthew Ingram on 29 Detroit 12s. With label scans, you choo choo spotters. tried to post this earlier but nothing happened... there were a couple curtin records mentioned so i pointed dan to the page..he sez Interesting list. Yeah, I never got that whole wave thing. I always thought that Carl Craig waspart of the 3rd wave, I never knew that I was even any wave...I think this dude thinks I'm from Detroit or something...I get that sh*t all of the time. What's more interesting is that if you scroll down you will find a record called Biotic which he is raving about and he credits it to Kenny Larkin...hey wait a minute, that's MY recordha! I'll have to write him... i always thought everybody on techno2 was generally considered 2nd wave, but guess i dont understand the wave thing either..oh well...the whole kirk d/detroit-influence critique on that page gets to me, seem likes music critic bs, instead of listening based ugh...writing off b12, kirkd, terrace, etc as reduction and too reverential, how do you make that sort of judgement..calling something copycat is another story, but this stuff clearly was not that...gee i just thought it was dope music...everything is influenced by something, sheesh! what a bunch of nonsense! ahh well..i dig the record section on that page anyways.. btw dan's first mix he's bothered to record will be online shortly, its pretty nice! will post a link soon.. jt ps on npr right now they are talking about some mideastern guys who have remade moroder's midnight express soundtrack on traditional instruments! and playing a lot of moroder's original in the background as well..nice.. _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
