who stole the soul?
Okay so Friday night, Motor Lounge, Richard Humpty Vision played and there was reportedly a capicity crowd. Saturday night D Wynn played and there's was like 300 people, tops. What's going on? Am I still in Detroit? _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
who stole the soul?
> The reason people are not coming to the club anymore is because detroit > is not making music that is so vibrant and irresistible that people feel > they need to be at our gigs. Detroit needs to go back to Deep Space and > bring something back that is so out there that people will go nuts for > it. I dont know, i have to disagree. Everytime I start thinking that Detroit Techno has become monotonous, and following the same old patterns, I see something, or hear something that totally reminds me why I am proud to be a Detroiter. For example, the first time I heard "jaguar," the first time I saw T-1000 spin, the first time I heard Red Planet, the first time I heard "Changes of Life," Kevin Sandurson's last set at Motor- I was moved and inspired on different levels each time. I knew Detroit had not only the rich musical History, but has the abilty to progress, and make music that can not only be appreciated by Ekko Thugs, and Kandi Kids, but by Detroits own Techno elitists. Also keep in mind that there are hunderds of thousands of kids in the Detroit are and millions across the world who know nothing about our music, and once they are exposed to it, are completely changed. To some of us, this "old school" sound is still completly new, and we cant get enough of it. One of the reasons why I am so into the music here though is its great diversity. Just look at labels like Transmat, Planet E, Underground Resistance, Axis, Pure Sonik, Minus, Red Planet, Direct Beat, 430 West, Purpose Maker etc. There are a good 4 or 5 differnt styles of Electronic Music right there, but due to the fact that they are all made in Detroit, we just call them all "techno." Our music is always evolving and constantly changing yet still keeping that soul, that funk that this town was built on. Sorry if this comes off as too cheesey, but this is a debate I constanty get in with trance and house fans, so its easy for me to just rant. -christos
Re: who stole the soul?
Not to add fuel to your ire, Mr. Blaze: >Okay so Friday night, Motor Lounge, Richard Humpty Vision played and there >was reportedly a capicity crowd. >Saturday night D Wynn played and there's was like 300 people, tops. >What's going on? >Am I still in Detroit? >___ ... but I found myself quite-the-pissed-off come last Tuesday's LATimes _Calendar_ which chose to, yet again, showcase Moby with a front page _Pop Music Review_ entitled "The Soul of Dance Music" complete with a large, bluish foto of the "great white"- mic in hand... all-the-while, degrading a review of Brian Wilson's "Pet Sounds Symphonic Tour" to pg.8 with accompanying teensy b&w... Having displayed, once again, my not-so-secret luv of all things Pop... I defy anyone to show me the "soul" 'twixt "Play" & "Pet Sounds"... ( won't get to many takers here, I'm sure..) n.p.: today's cheep-o find... the CD VIDEO of Visage's "Mind of a Toy", J. E. v.F-B. B.
Re: [313] who stole the soul?
No I think racist epithets are inappropriate. And I don't think it has anything to do with race. The question was: why has Detroit turned a deaf ear to its best homeboys again and again. (DEMF excluded). I think a better subject header for this post would be why to these cracker ass honkies ignore the soul. ;) mt Hugh G. Blaze wrote: > > Okay so Friday night, Motor Lounge, Richard Humpty Vision played and there > was reportedly a capicity crowd. > Saturday night D Wynn played and there's was like 300 people, tops. > What's going on? > Am I still in Detroit? > _ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Michael Taylor : [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.billionairesforbushorgore.com _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
Re: [313] who stole the soul?
Hey Ken, a. it was a joke, I happen to be a blue-eyed devil myself. b. that message was sent offlist, it is rude to post private mail. c. Race does have a lot to do with it. White folks who were raised on pop music do not want to hear soulful dance music because it is too much of a stretch from the music they normally listen to. Brothers are not going to the trance parties, it is white kids. Trance music is pop with a kick drum, it is white, dumb, and musically unadventurous people that love it. And don't tell me that Humpty does not draw a very dumb and unfunky white crowd, I know you know better. People go to motor to drink and hit on chicks, they are not there for the music, if you analyze the crowd and think about what you are seeing, you will come to the same conclusion. these days many black people do not support the stuff because it is not perceived as black enough, or soulful enough. D-wynn does not even play good records on saturdays, he plays for a motor crowd, which is dumb and white. It isn't a pleasant thing to say, but it is the truth. Another thing, and this is going to get me in huge trouble, but who even wants to go to motor anymore? Honestly, everyone I know is bored to death of the place, and the only reason anybody still goes is because there are no real alternatives. As for why Detroit doesn't support its best and brightest, I can think of a number of reasons. For one, intelligent techno people are getting old, even us newschool youngsters who were into it in the mid-90's are getting older. We have jobs, some of us have kids, and we all have responsibilities. Also, most of us who have been around long enough to know the difference between Humpty and Dwynn are starting to get bored with the whole idea. How many years to you have to hang out at the club before you start to get the idea? Third, times are changing, people are not going out like they used to, it is 1982 again, just look through a new issue of Vogue. music is changing, it isn't 84 anymore. The crowds in detroit are totally segregated, commercial radio is totally segregated, unless you are Eminem or racially anonymous (godfather) you aint getting played on WJLB. 96.3 or 89x wont play you unless you are white, or you music is completely and utterly white(re hootie) radio is putting people into their particular racial boxes, and they are not listening outside of those boxes. Black people go to the cabaret, and white people go to raves. This is hitting anybody who is playing music that does not fit into one of those boxes really hard. Techno isn't purist black music, there is a ton of white influence in Detroit Techno, it is Kraftwerk and Parliament in an elevator. It is too black for the white people who do not want to stretch, and too white for black people who want to hear "black" music at the club. The crowd that did support it is getting old, like it our not, our scene is aging, and young kids are not taking up our slack. I say it is just as well. How many more 909 records do we really need? Derrick May was right, this dance music does not have the charisma to last. If you think things are bad now, wait another 5 years. it has been beaten to death, and it isn't special anymore. oh wow, another 12" dance record, and the reverb algorithms that is in fashion this season are so much better than the reverbs they were using last year. Wow, instead of using 909 closed hats, they are using acoustic hats to play the exact same shuffled 909 rhythm. How many dance records are actually techno? aren't you sick of knowing that the break will come every 8 bars, and that there will probably be a breakdown every 64 bars...? There are all these rules for making a proper techno record, and it is just so tired and boring. I know that I sound like a bitter and jaded old-young man, I accept and acknowledge it. The reason I am such a jerk about it is because I do care about music, and I take the things that people like derrick may said about techno back in the day seriously. People are just rehashing the same f***ing record over and over for money or status. all these records that are coming put now are raping and s***ting on something that was once special and pure. Where is the real innovation, people make the same track over and over, they just process it a little different, put some different drum sounds on it, and they are lauded as geniuses. The reason people are not coming to the club anymore is because detroit is not making music that is so vibrant and irresistible that people feel they need to be at our gigs. Detroit needs to go back to Deep Space and bring something back that is so out there that people will go nuts for it. Who cares if there is another slammin dance cut, there have been a million slammin cuts, it is time for a new Detroit sound. We need to make a new style that has its roots in techno-soul, but is reaching further out. It is time for Detroit to create another futuristic musical language, cause the ol
Re: [313] who stole the soul?
MT I completely understand your views on the whole detroit techno scene, and the way you feel it has significantly gotten worse over the years. However..I am brand new to this scene...im 23 and i dont live in detroit...im on the east coast. Back in my high school days I was a punk rocker.digging all the raw and unheard soundz that these bands were showing us. After time...the "mainstream" caught a hold of it...and the end was near. No more respect for Green Day and Rancid. Nofx was no longer a true punk band. Why??? simple. I got older and jaded with the music b/c I knew punk music one way: in my youth. i grew up to a certain sound...and it changed. its the common saying "their first album is their best." about 6 months ago...i heard the soundz of techno. it amazed me. it enlightened meand it took me away. but...i cant get into alot of the older detroit stuff why? b/c its not the style i was introduced to. I enjoy the tribal, flowing, banging stuff. marco bailey, andreas kramer, hawtin, mills...just to name a few. and i gaurentee you that in 5-10 yrs i will feel the same way you do. music..especially tekno = evolution. nothing stays the same..can u imagine if it did? it just progresses and ur not familiar with this sound. i am. and the feeling u got from going 2 a club 10 yrs agoi get now. i dont wanna leave when i go. and i am as true 2 the music as you seem 2 be. i care about it. and i will most likely feel the same way u do when my style changes. as far white/black musici dont have any answers 2 that. here on the east coast u have the following: black kids for the most part..listen to black hip-hop (isnt that synonomous?) very few listen to anything else. tekno is not nerely black music anymore. the earlier stuff..yes i can see that. funky..and housyhouse = chicago = predominantly black. yes there r some traces in todays technobut not enough for anyone who isnt into it. the bottom line is this. music to most people is not what it is to you and I. we study and disect everything we hear. to most, it is merely background music. music is changing..and it always has...and always will. that is one fact we all need to xpect. my 2 cents.mike d.
Re: [313] who stole the soul?
mike d wrote: Back in my high school days I was a punk rocker.digging all the >raw and unheard soundz that these bands were showing us. After >time...the "mainstream" caught a hold of it...and the end was near. >No more respect for Green Day and Rancid. Nofx was no longer a true >punk band. Why??? simple. I got older and jaded with the music b/c I knew punk music one way: in my youth. i grew up to a certain >sound...and it changed. its the common saying "their first album is >their best." You're suggesting that people actually "grow" INTO a sound, be it Punk, Detroit techno or whatever. It continues: ...about 6 months ago...i heard the soundz of techno. it amazed me. it enlightened meand it took me away. but...i cant get into alot of >the older detroit stuff why? b/c its not the style i was introduced >to... I don't agree with you that one has to be "introduced" to a certain sound or style, and that the first encounters with any new musical style are the best or strongest you can have. Of course there's a special nostalgia for it, remembering the "good ol'days", but it has nothing to do with how good music is. Or what you may or may not like. I wasn't listening to classic Detroit Techno when it first came in the 80's (I started in the early 90's), but I like it A LOT. I don't have any special nostalgia for it, but nevertheless I find the music's depth, energy and innovation outstanding. I understand the importance of this music, as well as any other style's importance in the chain of musical culture. I listen to 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's music and find amazing pieces of work from all genres, all the time. I find this philosophy that "every generation has it's idols" disturbing. People are not computers where you download a certain operation system every other year (=musical "trends"), and once you've passed your youth you're stuck with the music you listened to. Of course not. Music is culture, and culture has the ability to survive thousands of years, there's no sell-by date in it, it doesn't lose it's energy like a battery. I think the fact that you might not like most of the D-techno has more to do with the fact that you like more energetic music. Maybe D-techno hasn't got the "bang" enough for you or something...? Proffit _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
Re: [313] who stole the soul?
Really good, thoughtful, if at times depressing thread. From: "jim proffit" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] who stole the soul? Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 07:53:44 GMT mike d wrote: Back in my high school days I was a punk rocker.digging all the >raw and unheard soundz that these bands were showing us. After >time...the "mainstream" caught a hold of it...and the end was near. >No more respect for Green Day and Rancid. Nofx was no longer a true >punk band. Why??? simple. I got older and jaded with the music b/c I knew punk music one way: in my youth. i grew up to a certain >sound...and it changed. its the common saying "their first album is >their best." You're suggesting that people actually "grow" INTO a sound, be it Punk, Detroit techno or whatever. It continues: ...about 6 months ago...i heard the soundz of techno. it amazed me. it enlightened meand it took me away. but...i cant get into alot of >the older detroit stuff why? b/c its not the style i was introduced >to... I don't agree with you that one has to be "introduced" to a certain sound or style, and that the first encounters with any new musical style are the best or strongest you can have. Of course there's a special nostalgia for it, remembering the "good ol'days", but it has nothing to do with how good music is. Or what you may or may not like. I wasn't listening to classic Detroit Techno when it first came in the 80's (I started in the early 90's), but I like it A LOT. I don't have any special nostalgia for it, but nevertheless I find the music's depth, energy and innovation outstanding. I understand the importance of this music, as well as any other style's importance in the chain of musical culture. I listen to 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's music and find amazing pieces of work from all genres, all the time. I find this philosophy that "every generation has it's idols" disturbing. People are not computers where you download a certain operation system every other year (=musical "trends"), and once you've passed your youth you're stuck with the music you listened to. Of course not. Music is culture, and culture has the ability to survive thousands of years, there's no sell-by date in it, it doesn't lose it's energy like a battery. I think the fact that you might not like most of the D-techno has more to do with the fact that you like more energetic music. Maybe D-techno hasn't got the "bang" enough for you or something...? Proffit _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
Re: [313] who stole the soul?
The 21+ could have reduced the crowd, also Derrick May played in Lansing and Windsor too. respose to other responses: Getting layed is important if your white or black. Listening to good music is important if your white or black. Race is not the issue it is priorities and the ability to tell the difference between good music and bad and dirty and clean (lets say exercise) these are personal decisions. peace out mg >>> "Hugh G. Blaze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 10/01/00 10:39PM >>> No I think racist epithets are inappropriate. And I don't think it has anything to do with race. The question was: why has Detroit turned a deaf ear to its best homeboys again and again. (DEMF excluded). > >I think a better subject header for this post would be why to these >cracker ass honkies ignore the soul. ;) > >mt > >Hugh G. Blaze wrote: > > > > Okay so Friday night, Motor Lounge, Richard Humpty Vision played and >there > > was reportedly a capicity crowd. > > Saturday night D Wynn played and there's was like 300 people, tops. > > What's going on? > > Am I still in Detroit? > > >_ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at >http://www.hotmail.com. > > > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >-- > Michael Taylor : [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.billionairesforbushorgore.com _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] who stole the soul?
I don't like this. I'm a whitey. Half of my family is black but I'm 100% white and my parents are too. My mum used to listen to lots of black music and my dad used to be the only white guy who could get into black clubs when he was a youngster cuz he could kick all their asses (Wing something waddada whateva Kung Fu thing), so he got on with them. I was brought up in a multicultural community and I don't see why the colour of your skin should make any kinda difference. There's money grabbing blacks and whites and yellows and f**kin' martians. Greed and hate and selfishness crosses the race barrier. Kraftwerk are honkys. So what if D-town is full of blacks, so what? That's positive discrimination, dissing white culture... I don't like what you've said at all and I'd just shut your mouth before you start a flame war. Race shouldn't come into the techno equation, alright? Nick (Dj Pacific) > c. Race does have a lot to do with it. White folks > who were raised on > pop music do not want to hear soulful dance music > because it is too much > of a stretch from the music they normally listen to. > Brothers are not > going to the trance parties, it is white kids. > Trance music is pop with > a kick drum, it is white, dumb, and musically > unadventurous people that > love it. And don't tell me that Humpty does not draw > a very dumb and > unfunky white crowd, I know you know better. People > go to motor to drink > and hit on chicks, they are not there for the music, > if you analyze the > crowd and think about what you are seeing, you will > come to the same > conclusion. > > these days many black people do not support the > stuff because it is not > perceived as black enough, or soulful enough. D-wynn > does not even play > good records on saturdays, he plays for a motor > crowd, which is dumb and > white. It isn't a pleasant thing to say, but it is > the truth. Another > thing, and this is going to get me in huge trouble, > but who even wants > to go to motor anymore? Honestly, everyone I know is > bored to death of > the place, and the only reason anybody still goes is > because there are > no real alternatives. > > As for why Detroit doesn't support its best and > brightest, I can think > of a number of reasons. For one, intelligent techno > people are getting > old, even us newschool youngsters who were into it > in the mid-90's are > getting older. We have jobs, some of us have kids, > and we all have > responsibilities. Also, most of us who have been > around long enough to > know the difference between Humpty and Dwynn are > starting to get bored > with the whole idea. How many years to you have to > hang out at the club > before you start to get the idea? Third, times are > changing, people are > not going out like they used to, it is 1982 again, > just look through a > new issue of Vogue. > > music is changing, it isn't 84 anymore. The crowds > in detroit are > totally segregated, commercial radio is totally > segregated, unless you > are Eminem or racially anonymous (godfather) you > aint getting played on > WJLB. 96.3 or 89x wont play you unless you are > white, or you music is > completely and utterly white(re hootie) radio is > putting people into > their particular racial boxes, and they are not > listening outside of > those boxes. Black people go to the cabaret, and > white people go to > raves. > > This is hitting anybody who is playing music that > does not fit into one > of those boxes really hard. Techno isn't purist > black music, there is a > ton of white influence in Detroit Techno, it is > Kraftwerk and Parliament > in an elevator. It is too black for the white people > who do not want to > stretch, and too white for black people who want to > hear "black" music > at the club. The crowd that did support it is > getting old, like it our > not, our scene is aging, and young kids are not > taking up our slack. > > I say it is just as well. How many more 909 records > do we really need? > Derrick May was right, this dance music does not > have the charisma to > last. If you think things are bad now, wait another > 5 years. it has been > beaten to death, and it isn't special anymore. oh > wow, another 12" dance > record, and the reverb algorithms that is in fashion > this season are so > much better than the reverbs they were using last > year. Wow, instead of > using 909 closed hats, they are using acoustic hats > to play the exact > same shuffled 909 rhythm. How many dance records are > actually techno? > aren't you sick of knowing that the break will come > every 8 bars, and > that there will probably be a breakdown every 64 > bars...? There are all > these rules for making a proper techno record, and > it is just so tired > and boring. > > I know that I sound like a bitter and jaded > old-young man, I accept and > acknowledge it. The reason I am such a jerk about it > is because I do > care about music, and I take the things that people > like derrick may > said about tech
Re: [313] who stole the soul?
You're suggesting that people actually "grow" INTO a sound, be it Punk, Detroit techno or whatever. No. I am suggesting that as i grew up..I was familiar with a certain sound. The sound I enjoyed most at the time. I don't agree with you that one has to be "introduced" to a certain sound or style, and that the first encounters with any new musical style are the best or strongest you can have. I agree with what you are saying here, however that was not my point. What I am trying to say is...for me, the musical style of the present was what I began listening to in huge quantities. I adapted to it. I enjoyed it. Its not to say that I wont like anythjing else, but this is what I was familiar with. I find this philosophy that "every generation has it's idols" disturbing. People are not computers where you download a certain operation system every other year (=musical "trends"), and once you've passed your youth you're stuck with the music you listened to. Of course not. Music is culture, and culture has the ability to survive thousands of years, there's no sell-by date in it, it doesn't lose it's energy like a battery. Once again..agreed. However i was responding to the individual who was speaking of "seeing things get worse." I listen to alot of music that wasnt popular for my generation. But I can also relate alot music of "my generation" and yes you are right...i like it hard and bangin. mike
Re: [313] who stole the soul?
Hey Ken, a. it was a joke, I happen to be a blue-eyed devil myself. b. that message was sent offlist, it is rude to post private mail. Sorry, I didn't notice that and thought I hit "reply" instead of "reply to all" so I worte 313 in. My bad. c. Race does have a lot to do with it. White folks who were raised on pop music do not want to hear soulful dance music because it is too much of a stretch from the music they normally listen to. Brothers are not going to the trance parties, it is white kids. Trance music is pop with a kick drum, it is white, dumb, and musically unadventurous people that love it. And don't tell me that Humpty does not draw a very dumb and unfunky white crowd, I know you know better. People go to motor to drink and hit on chicks, they are not there for the music, That's kinbd of an over-generalization. I know a lot of people who *only* go there if there's someone playing that they want to hear. if you analyze the crowd and think about what you are seeing, you will come to the same conclusion. these days many black people do not support the stuff because it is not perceived as black enough, or soulful enough. D-wynn does not even play good records on saturdays, he plays for a motor crowd, which is dumb and white. He played some pretty good tracks last Sat., man. It isn't a pleasant thing to say, but it is the truth. Another thing, and this is going to get me in huge trouble, but who even wants to go to motor anymore? Honestly, everyone I know is bored to death of the place, and the only reason anybody still goes is because there are no real alternatives. That's 100% true and I don't think many people would disagree with you. As for why Detroit doesn't support its best and brightest, I can think of a number of reasons. For one, intelligent techno people are getting old, even us newschool youngsters who were into it in the mid-90's are getting older. We have jobs, some of us have kids, and we all have responsibilities. Also, most of us who have been around long enough to know the difference between Humpty and Dwynn are starting to get bored with the whole idea. How many years to you have to hang out at the club before you start to get the idea? Third, times are changing, people are not going out like they used to, it is 1982 again, just look through a new issue of Vogue. music is changing, it isn't 84 anymore. The crowds in detroit are totally segregated, commercial radio is totally segregated, unless you are Eminem or racially anonymous (godfather) you aint getting played on WJLB. 96.3 or 89x wont play you unless you are white, or you music is completely and utterly white(re hootie) radio is putting people into their particular racial boxes, and they are not listening outside of those boxes. Black people go to the cabaret, and white people go to raves. This is hitting anybody who is playing music that does not fit into one of those boxes really hard. Techno isn't purist black music, there is a ton of white influence in Detroit Techno, it is Kraftwerk and Parliament in an elevator. It is too black for the white people who do not want to stretch, and too white for black people who want to hear "black" music at the club. I thought music was music. Didn't know you can color sound. The crowd that did support it is getting old, like it our not, our scene is aging, and young kids are not taking up our slack. I say it is just as well. How many more 909 records do we really need? Derrick May was right, this dance music does not have the charisma to last. If you think things are bad now, wait another 5 years. it has been beaten to death, and it isn't special anymore. oh wow, another 12" dance record, and the reverb algorithms that is in fashion this season are so much better than the reverbs they were using last year. Wow, instead of using 909 closed hats, they are using acoustic hats to play the exact same shuffled 909 rhythm. How many dance records are actually techno? aren't you sick of knowing that the break will come every 8 bars, and that there will probably be a breakdown every 64 bars...? There are all these rules for making a proper techno record, and it is just so tired and boring. Wow you're jaded. I know that I sound like a bitter and jaded old-young man, I accept and acknowledge it. The reason I am such a jerk about it is because I do care about music, and I take the things that people like derrick may said about techno back in the day seriously. People are just rehashing the same f***ing record over and over for money or status. all these records that are coming put now are raping and s***ting on something that was once special and pure. Where is the real innovation, people make the same track over and over, they just process it a little different, put some different drum sounds on it, and they are lauded as geniuses. The reason people are not coming to the club anymore is because detroit is not making music that is so vibrant and irresistible
Re: [313] who stole the soul?
So basically summing up your reply to Mike, all you have to add to this thread is belittling Mike's long, thoughtful message. Even though Mike is offering a great deal of generalizations and minimizations, what he is saying is a personal opinion. People seem to think you can cover all of the bases and have some sort of perfect discussion full of examples/counterexamples, and exceptions. The reality of argument isn't really like that though. So jumping on Mike's ass and offering idiotic one-liners to waste the bandwidth of the list isn't going to make arguing anymore perfect. Yes, hugh, you are exactly right. music is music, and you can't color music. You certainly CAN however, color the politics of music, and the business of music. The culture of music can also be colored by the aforementioned business and politics. This is the point I believe Mike is trying to make. > That's kinbd of an over-generalization. I know a lot of people who *only* go > there if there's someone playing that they want to hear. > > He played some pretty good tracks last Sat., man. > > That's 100% true and I don't think many people would disagree with you. > > I thought music was music. Didn't know you can color sound. > > Wow you're jaded. > > And all in 10 years or less, huh.
Re: [313] who stole the soul?
--- Nathan John de Yonker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So basically summing up your reply to Mike, all you > have to add to this > thread is belittling Mike's long, thoughtful > message. Even though Mike is > offering a great deal of generalizations and > minimizations, what he is > saying is a personal opinion. People seem to think > you can cover all of > the bases and have some sort of perfect discussion > full of > examples/counterexamples, and exceptions. The > reality of argument isn't > really like that though. So jumping on Mike's ass > and offering idiotic > one-liners to waste the bandwidth of the list isn't > going to make arguing > anymore perfect. > > Yes, hugh, you are exactly right. music is music, > and you can't color > music. You certainly CAN however, color the politics > of music, and the > business of music. The culture of music can also be > colored by the > aforementioned business and politics. This is the > point I believe Mike is > trying to make. Jeezuz, I'm not trying to colour music. I'm not throwing bricks at the Israelis, I've not put sanctions on the Iraqis, I've not dammed up the Euphrates... I don't hurt anybody... Sh*t, blacks don't have to sit at the back of the bus anymore What's this coloured politics you're talking about? Tell me, I'd like to know. The governments sh*t on everyone unless you're loaded. They only love money... that's that... No colour involved there... what's up? Do you wanna make people angry or something? Someone'll get booted for this kinda stuff... l8r, Nick (Dj Pacific:) __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
Re: [313] who stole the soul?
> I find this philosophy that "every generation has it's idols" disturbing. > People are not computers where you download a certain operation system every > other year (=musical "trends"), and once you've passed your youth you're > stuck with the music you listened to. Of course not. Music is culture, and > culture has the ability to survive thousands of years, there's no sell-by > date in it, it doesn't lose it's energy like a battery. yeah, but the majority of peoples' listening habits tend to adhere to this model. i don't see many people my parents' age down at the local records store. glyn
Re: [313] who stole the soul?
> One of the reasons why I am so into the music here though is its great
> diversity. Just look at labels like Transmat, Planet E, Underground
> Resistance, Axis, Pure Sonik, Minus, Red Planet, Direct Beat, 430 West,
> Purpose Maker etc. There are a good 4 or 5 differnt styles of Electronic
> Music right there, but due to the fact that they are all made in Detroit,
> we just call them all "techno." Our music is always evolving and
> constantly changing yet still keeping that soul, that funk that this town
> was built on.
that's an interesting point. a friend of mine is trying to compile a
definitive list of all electronic music subgenres, and asked me a bunch of
questions about techno, like whether such-and-such is a real subgenre, or
which artist would be most representative of that category. i found it
really hard to give definitive answers on what "detroit techno" is, or who
would be an essential "minimal techno" artist. it's encouraging that the
music is diverse enough that it can't easily be boxed into discrete
categories ("i play UK acid-tech-trance, which is infinitely superior to
you UK acid-NU-NRG.")
glyn
Re: [313] who stole the soul?
> I don't like this. I'm a whitey. Half of my family is > black but I'm 100% white and my parents are too. My > mum used to listen to lots of black music and my dad > used to be the only white guy who could get into black > clubs when he was a youngster cuz he could kick all > their asses (Wing something waddada whateva Kung Fu > thing), so he got on with them. I was brought up in a > multicultural community and I don't see why the colour > of your skin should make any kinda difference. There's > money grabbing blacks and whites and yellows and > f**kin' martians. Greed and hate and selfishness > crosses the race barrier. > > Kraftwerk are honkys. So what if D-town is full of > blacks, so what? That's positive discrimination, > dissing white culture... > > I don't like what you've said at all and I'd just shut > your mouth before you start a flame war. Race > shouldn't come into the techno equation, alright? your personal experiences notwithstanding, i think the point that's being made is that different genres of music appeal/are marketed to different ethnic groups (e.g. "urban" hip-hop/r&b vs. "alternative" rock). the idea is that techno has difficulty gathering a large listening audience because it defies strict boundaries and racial identities (i.e. it contains both "black" and "white" elements.) glyn (who really should stop procrastinating now...)
Re: [313] who stole the soul?
I think therein lies much of the appeal of Detroit techno... particularly the classic stuff, is that the ambience of the music itself has the ability to grab certain people. I'm all for the bangin' stuff myself, but it's the ambience and soul in place of the "bang" that I like about D-techno so much. Matt E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://magicmattkelly.tripod.com >I think the fact that you might not like most of the D-techno has more to >do >with the fact that you like more energetic music. Maybe D-techno hasn't got >the "bang" enough for you or something...? > > >Proffit
Re: [313] who stole the soul?
Re: Just look at labels like Transmat, Planet E, Underground Resistance, Axis, Pure Sonik, Minus, Red Planet, Direct Beat, 430 West, Purpose Maker etc. There are a good 4 or 5 differnt styles of Electronic Music right there, but due to the fact that they are all made in Detroit, we just call them all "techno." Don't bother reading the newest (?) issue of Mixmag...the issue about dance music in the US (cover has a woman with the Stars and Stripes painted over her mug). The only label to get in their list of biggest US labels was Planet E. I supposed, though, going up against Moonshine, Ultra, OM, Kinetic, etc. they are counting overall sales. It was embarrasing/exhasperating to read the article. Typical of the big press though, US or UK. Fred From: christos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: [313] who stole the soul? Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:39:44 -0400 (EDT) > The reason people are not coming to the club anymore is because detroit > is not making music that is so vibrant and irresistible that people feel > they need to be at our gigs. Detroit needs to go back to Deep Space and > bring something back that is so out there that people will go nuts for > it. I dont know, i have to disagree. Everytime I start thinking that Detroit Techno has become monotonous, and following the same old patterns, I see something, or hear something that totally reminds me why I am proud to be a Detroiter. For example, the first time I heard "jaguar," the first time I saw T-1000 spin, the first time I heard Red Planet, the first time I heard "Changes of Life," Kevin Sandurson's last set at Motor- I was moved and inspired on different levels each time. I knew Detroit had not only the rich musical History, but has the abilty to progress, and make music that can not only be appreciated by Ekko Thugs, and Kandi Kids, but by Detroits own Techno elitists. Also keep in mind that there are hunderds of thousands of kids in the Detroit are and millions across the world who know nothing about our music, and once they are exposed to it, are completely changed. To some of us, this "old school" sound is still completly new, and we cant get enough of it. One of the reasons why I am so into the music here though is its great diversity. Just look at labels like Transmat, Planet E, Underground Resistance, Axis, Pure Sonik, Minus, Red Planet, Direct Beat, 430 West, Purpose Maker etc. There are a good 4 or 5 differnt styles of Electronic Music right there, but due to the fact that they are all made in Detroit, we just call them all "techno." Our music is always evolving and constantly changing yet still keeping that soul, that funk that this town was built on. Sorry if this comes off as too cheesey, but this is a debate I constanty get in with trance and house fans, so its easy for me to just rant. -christos - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
Re: [313] who stole the soul?
> the idea is that techno has difficulty gathering a > large listening audience because it defies strict > boundaries and racial identities (i.e. it contains > both "black" and "white" elements.) Yeah, I like that... a sound with no race connected. I mean a black guy invented techno as we know it, right? Doesn't mean he owns it tho... I guess... What about asian ppl, they do a heck of a lot for music and stuff:) I don't wanna discuss the politics that's all. Ppl get hurt, we all know about it, it's gonna be a touchy area until ppl stop pointing out the differences and start pointing out the similarities. We're all the same, you know that... It's why Muslims and Jews are at each others throats in Jerusalem. l8r, Nick (Dj Pacific:) Ps. Hard house sux... LOL;) __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/
Re: [313] who stole the soul?
Nick wrote: I don't wanna discuss the politics that's all. Ppl get hurt, we all know about it, it's gonna be a touchy area until ppl stop pointing out the differences and start pointing out the similarities. We're all the same, you know that... It's why Muslims and Jews are at each others throats in Jerusalem. Yeah someone needs to tell those people they're worshiping the same God. Good point about the differences vs. similarities, though. Kinda like is the glass half full or half empty, you can look at either way. _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
