date:20180810

I'm pretty sure they didn't go through the fcc certification for elevate
devices... I'm pretty sure that would've required putting new fcc ID
stickers on the radios, anyway. If I remember correctly, I asked somebody
from Cambium about it when elevate first came out, and they said that
changing the software didn't affect the certification. Maybe that's all
controlled by lower level stuff that doesn't get affected?

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 8:03 PM Robert  wrote:

> That wouldn't seem to be allowable & I thought that Cambium did test s/w
> and h/w for elevate devices?
>
> On 8/10/18 4:30 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> > I don’t quite understand how a radio can be legal Part 15 if it is
> > running different software than what it was tested with.
> > *From:* Mathew Howard
> > *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 5:26 PM
> > *To:* AFMUG
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
> > Yeah, I think Cambium uses a new version of the chipset, but it's
> > basically the same thing. I'd have to check, but I think that the power
> > limits may be slightly different with the Cambium firmware (particularly
> > at the bottom end of the UNII-1 band)... it also wouldn't surprise me if
> > there were issues with DFS being handled differently (I don't know
> > whether or not that's actually the case though). The funny thing with
> > worrying about power limits though, is that it's perfectly simple to run
> > at way too high of power with the UBNT firmware... I'm not sure if they
> > have it locked down better in more recent firmware, but even if they do,
> > you can still flash a version that will certainly let you mess with
> > antenna settings (on most of the radios, anyway).
> > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:03 PM Robert  wrote:
> >
> > Dell doesn't make/profit from Windows muchly, that is a big
> difference.
> > Dell doesn't have to worry about linux violating FCC rules ( not laws
> > )..  I haven't run elevate, are there switches/controls that might
> > allow
> > power/frequency violations?   Isn't the chipset basically the same as
> > Cambium is using in their hardware?   The only way I would see a
> > possible FCC violation would be if it exposes something that Ubnt
> > should
> > not have had in the product...
> >
> > On 8/10/18 11:47 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> >  > Dell isn't harmed when you install Linux on your computer.
> >  > Likewise I don't see how Ubiquiti is harmed when you install
> Elevate.
> >  >
> >  > Someone has to spell out the difference for me.
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > On 8/10/2018 2:40 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
> >  >> so - assuming they are held liable and have to pay damages
> >  >> how much do ya'll estimate they've made from elevate?
> >  >> now, don't get me wrong, i have a soft spot for both companies.
> >  >> they've both made me a lot of money.
> >  >> i hate to see them doing this - - but i fully see ubnt's point
> > of view
> >  >> too.
> >  >>
> >  >> - Original Message -
> >  >> *From:* Mathew Howard 
> >  >> *To:* AFMUG 
> >  >> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:37 PM
> >  >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
> >  >>
> >  >> Cambium is not publicly traded... unless something has
> changed
> >  >> recently.
> >  >>
> >  >> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:30 PM CBB - Jay Fuller
> >  >>  > > wrote:
> >  >>
> >  >> wasn't aware cambium was publically traded?
> >  >>
> >  >> - Original Message -
> >  >> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com 
> >  >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >  >> 
> >  >> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:23 PM
> >  >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
> >  >>
> >  >> Or short Cambium you never know.
> >  >> MoviePass is selling at 5.1 cents per share right now.
> >  >> Or 20 milli cents in pre split dollars. Millipennys?
> >  >> Money is metric, right?
> >  >> In other words, I bought at 60 cents and it is now at
> >  >> 0.020 cents...
> >  >> *From:* Tyson Burris
> >  >> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 12:19 PM
> >  >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >  >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
> >  >>
> >  >> Looks like its time to short the hell of UBNT stock. I
> >  >> don’t see a lawsuit as a favorable to WISP opinions.
> >  >> Dragging WISPs and Vendors into it is very sticky.
> >  >>
> >  >> Could end up being negative.
> >  >>
> >  >> *Tyson Burris, President**
> >  >> **Internet Communications Inc.**
> >  >> **739 Commerce Dr.**
> >  >> **Franklin, IN 46131**
> >  >> ***
> >  >> *Daytime #**317-738-0320 *
> >  >> *Cell/Direct #**317-412-1540 *
> >  >> *Online: **www.surfici.net

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

I don’t quite understand how a radio can be legal Part 15 if it is running 
different software than what it was tested with.  

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 5:26 PM
To: AFMUG 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Yeah, I think Cambium uses a new version of the chipset, but it's basically the 
same thing. I'd have to check, but I think that the power limits may be 
slightly different with the Cambium firmware (particularly at the bottom end of 
the UNII-1 band)... it also wouldn't surprise me if there were issues with DFS 
being handled differently (I don't know whether or not that's actually the case 
though). The funny thing with worrying about power limits though, is that it's 
perfectly simple to run at way too high of power with the UBNT firmware... I'm 
not sure if they have it locked down better in more recent firmware, but even 
if they do, you can still flash a version that will certainly let you mess with 
antenna settings (on most of the radios, anyway).

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:03 PM Robert  wrote:

  Dell doesn't make/profit from Windows muchly, that is a big difference. 
Dell doesn't have to worry about linux violating FCC rules ( not laws 
  )..  I haven't run elevate, are there switches/controls that might allow 
  power/frequency violations?   Isn't the chipset basically the same as 
  Cambium is using in their hardware?   The only way I would see a 
  possible FCC violation would be if it exposes something that Ubnt should 
  not have had in the product...

  On 8/10/18 11:47 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
  > Dell isn't harmed when you install Linux on your computer.
  > Likewise I don't see how Ubiquiti is harmed when you install Elevate.
  > 
  > Someone has to spell out the difference for me.
  > 
  > 
  > On 8/10/2018 2:40 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
  >> so - assuming they are held liable and have to pay damages
  >> how much do ya'll estimate they've made from elevate?
  >> now, don't get me wrong, i have a soft spot for both companies.  
  >> they've both made me a lot of money.
  >> i hate to see them doing this - - but i fully see ubnt's point of view 
  >> too.
  >>
  >> - Original Message -
  >> *From:* Mathew Howard 
  >> *To:* AFMUG 
  >> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:37 PM
  >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
  >>
  >> Cambium is not publicly traded... unless something has changed
  >> recently.
  >>
  >> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:30 PM CBB - Jay Fuller
  >> mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:
  >>
  >> wasn't aware cambium was publically traded?
  >>
  >> - Original Message -
  >> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com 
  >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  >> 
  >> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:23 PM
  >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
  >>
  >> Or short Cambium you never know.
  >> MoviePass is selling at 5.1 cents per share right now.
  >> Or 20 milli cents in pre split dollars. Millipennys? 
  >> Money is metric, right?
  >> In other words, I bought at 60 cents and it is now at
  >> 0.020 cents...
  >> *From:* Tyson Burris
  >> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 12:19 PM
  >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
  >>
  >> Looks like its time to short the hell of UBNT stock.  I
  >> don’t see a lawsuit as a favorable to WISP opinions.
  >> Dragging WISPs and Vendors into it is very sticky.
  >>
  >> Could end up being negative.
  >>
  >> *Tyson Burris, President**
  >> **Internet Communications Inc.**
  >> **739 Commerce Dr.**
  >> **Franklin, IN 46131**
  >> ***
  >> *Daytime #**317-738-0320 *
  >> *Cell/Direct #**317-412-1540 *
  >> *Online: **www.surfici.net*
  >>
  >> ICI
  >>
  >> *What can ICI do for you?*
  >>
  >>
  >> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh
  >> Wifi/Hotzones - IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
  >> **
  >> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
  >> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
  >> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
  >> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
  >> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
  >> *prohibited.*
  >>
  >> *From:* AF > > *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
  >> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 12:34

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Yeah, I think Cambium uses a new version of the chipset, but it's basically
the same thing. I'd have to check, but I think that the power limits may be
slightly different with the Cambium firmware (particularly at the bottom
end of the UNII-1 band)... it also wouldn't surprise me if there were
issues with DFS being handled differently (I don't know whether or not
that's actually the case though). The funny thing with worrying about power
limits though, is that it's perfectly simple to run at way too high of
power with the UBNT firmware... I'm not sure if they have it locked down
better in more recent firmware, but even if they do, you can still flash a
version that will certainly let you mess with antenna settings (on most of
the radios, anyway).

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:03 PM Robert  wrote:

> Dell doesn't make/profit from Windows muchly, that is a big difference.
>   Dell doesn't have to worry about linux violating FCC rules ( not laws
> )..  I haven't run elevate, are there switches/controls that might allow
> power/frequency violations?   Isn't the chipset basically the same as
> Cambium is using in their hardware?   The only way I would see a
> possible FCC violation would be if it exposes something that Ubnt should
> not have had in the product...
>
> On 8/10/18 11:47 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> > Dell isn't harmed when you install Linux on your computer.
> > Likewise I don't see how Ubiquiti is harmed when you install Elevate.
> >
> > Someone has to spell out the difference for me.
> >
> >
> > On 8/10/2018 2:40 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
> >> so - assuming they are held liable and have to pay damages
> >> how much do ya'll estimate they've made from elevate?
> >> now, don't get me wrong, i have a soft spot for both companies.
> >> they've both made me a lot of money.
> >> i hate to see them doing this - - but i fully see ubnt's point of view
> >> too.
> >>
> >> - Original Message -
> >> *From:* Mathew Howard 
> >> *To:* AFMUG 
> >> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:37 PM
> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
> >>
> >> Cambium is not publicly traded... unless something has changed
> >> recently.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:30 PM CBB - Jay Fuller
> >> mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> wasn't aware cambium was publically traded?
> >>
> >> - Original Message -
> >> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com 
> >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >> 
> >> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:23 PM
> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
> >>
> >> Or short Cambium you never know.
> >> MoviePass is selling at 5.1 cents per share right now.
> >> Or 20 milli cents in pre split dollars. Millipennys?
> >> Money is metric, right?
> >> In other words, I bought at 60 cents and it is now at
> >> 0.020 cents...
> >> *From:* Tyson Burris
> >> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 12:19 PM
> >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
> >>
> >> Looks like its time to short the hell of UBNT stock.  I
> >> don’t see a lawsuit as a favorable to WISP opinions.
> >> Dragging WISPs and Vendors into it is very sticky.
> >>
> >> Could end up being negative.
> >>
> >> *Tyson Burris, President**
> >> **Internet Communications Inc.**
> >> **739 Commerce Dr.**
> >> **Franklin, IN 46131**
> >> ***
> >> *Daytime #**317-738-0320 *
> >> *Cell/Direct #**317-412-1540 *
> >> *Online: **www.surfici.net*
> >>
> >> ICI
> >>
> >> *What can ICI do for you?*
> >>
> >>
> >> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh
> >> Wifi/Hotzones - IP Security - Fiber - Tower -
> Infrastructure.*
> >> **
> >> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
> >> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
> >> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
> >> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents
> by*
> >> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
> >> *prohibited.*
> >>
> >> *From:* AF  >> > *On Behalf Of *Mike
> Hammett
> >> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 12:34 PM
> >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  >> >
> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
> >>
> >>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

I didn't know that... that's kind of disturbing. But on the other hand,
shutting up a lot of the people on their forum would have improved it...



On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 5:11 PM Robert  wrote:

> They have sued forum contributors to shut them up.
>
> On 8/10/18 2:54 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
> > Well, one would hope that this company did something a little more
> > substantial than just say some bad stuff for them to take it that far...
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 4:50 PM Robert  > > wrote:
> >
> > They have...
> >
> > On 8/10/18 10:52 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
> >  > Right, the fanboys will probably think this is great, but in
> > reality,
> >  > they're a probably a pretty insignificant percentage of their
> > customers.
> >  > As things stand now, I use both and I use whichever product works
> > better
> >  > in any particular situation... but this sort of thing certainly
> > leaves a
> >  > bad taste in my mouth, and if I was somebody trying to decide
> > between
> >  > the two products, this would certainly push me more towards
> Cambium.
> >  >
> >  > And it makes you wonder if they're going to start suing people
> > just for
> >  > saying bad stuff about them on the internet...
> >  >
> >  > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:46 PM Mike Hammett  > 
> >  > >> wrote:
> >  >
> >  > There are fanboys of both brands and then there are grownups.
> The
> >  > fanboys won't be swayed. The grownups may determine the risk
> > isn't
> >  > worth it.
> >  >
> >  > I use both brands.
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > -
> >  > Mike Hammett
> >  > Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> >  >
> >   <
> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> >  > Midwest Internet Exchange 
> >  >
> >   <
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><
> https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> >  > The Brothers WISP 
> >  > 
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > 
> >  >
> >
>  
> >  > *From: *"Seth Mattinen"  >   > >>
> >  > *To: *af@af.afmug.com 
> > >
> >  > *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 12:42:03 PM
> >  > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
> >  >
> >  > On 8/10/18 10:37, Mike Hammett wrote:
> >  >  > The problem doesn't just apply to WISPs. UBNT has now
> > proven that
> >  >  > they're willing to sue their customers over things
> > unrelated to
> >  > lack of
> >  >  > payment.
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > I don't think their fanbase will care.
> >  >
> >  > --
> >  > AF mailing list
> >  > AF@af.afmug.com   > >
> >  > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >  >
> >  > --
> >  > AF mailing list
> >  > AF@af.afmug.com   > >
> >  > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com 
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Most, like 99.999%, of forum contributors are not as worldly as you are, 
specially legally...


On 8/10/18 3:15 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Funny, if you choose to represent yourself as a small guy, like a forum 
member, against a big guy, it is not always a mistake.
The judge will normally go way out of their way to make sure you are 
treated fairly.  I have seen it happen.
Just have to make sure you hit the filing deadlines for replies etc.  
All the replies can be "didn't happen, they are liars".


But just like your taxes, you have to file.

-Original Message- From: Robert
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 4:10 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

They have sued forum contributors to shut them up.

On 8/10/18 2:54 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Well, one would hope that this company did something a little more 
substantial than just say some bad stuff for them to take it that far...


On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 4:50 PM Robert > wrote:


    They have...

    On 8/10/18 10:52 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
 > Right, the fanboys will probably think this is great, but in
    reality,
 > they're a probably a pretty insignificant percentage of their
    customers.
 > As things stand now, I use both and I use whichever product works
    better
 > in any particular situation... but this sort of thing certainly
    leaves a
 > bad taste in my mouth, and if I was somebody trying to decide
    between
 > the two products, this would certainly push me more towards 
Cambium.

 >
 > And it makes you wonder if they're going to start suing people
    just for
 > saying bad stuff about them on the internet...
 >
 > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:46 PM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net>
 > >> wrote:
 >
 > There are fanboys of both brands and then there are 
grownups. The

 > fanboys won't be swayed. The grownups may determine the risk
    isn't
 > worth it.
 >
 > I use both brands.
 >
 >
 >
 > -
 > Mike Hammett
 > Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 > 
 


 > Midwest Internet Exchange 
 > 
 


 > The Brothers WISP 
 > 
 >
 >
 > 

   >   


 > *From: *"Seth Mattinen" mailto:se...@rollernet.us> >>
 > *To: *af@af.afmug.com 
    >
 > *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 12:42:03 PM
 > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
 >
 > On 8/10/18 10:37, Mike Hammett wrote:
 >  > The problem doesn't just apply to WISPs. UBNT has now
    proven that
 >  > they're willing to sue their customers over things
    unrelated to
 > lack of
 >  > payment.
 >
 >
 > I don't think their fanbase will care.
 >
 > --
 > AF mailing list
 > AF@af.afmug.com  >
 > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
 >
 > --
 > AF mailing list
 > AF@af.afmug.com  >
 > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
 >
 >
 >

    --     AF mailing list
    AF@af.afmug.com 
    http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com







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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium


They have sued forum contributors to shut them up.

On 8/10/18 2:54 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Well, one would hope that this company did something a little more 
substantial than just say some bad stuff for them to take it that far...


On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 4:50 PM Robert > wrote:


They have...

On 8/10/18 10:52 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
 > Right, the fanboys will probably think this is great, but in
reality,
 > they're a probably a pretty insignificant percentage of their
customers.
 > As things stand now, I use both and I use whichever product works
better
 > in any particular situation... but this sort of thing certainly
leaves a
 > bad taste in my mouth, and if I was somebody trying to decide
between
 > the two products, this would certainly push me more towards Cambium.
 >
 > And it makes you wonder if they're going to start suing people
just for
 > saying bad stuff about them on the internet...
 >
 > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:46 PM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net>
 > >> wrote:
 >
 >     There are fanboys of both brands and then there are grownups. The
 >     fanboys won't be swayed. The grownups may determine the risk
isn't
 >     worth it.
 >
 >     I use both brands.
 >
 >
 >
 >     -
 >     Mike Hammett
 >     Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 >   
  

 >     Midwest Internet Exchange 
 >   
  

 >     The Brothers WISP 
 >     
 >
 >
 >     
 >   
  

 >     *From: *"Seth Mattinen" mailto:se...@rollernet.us> >>
 >     *To: *af@af.afmug.com 
>
 >     *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 12:42:03 PM
 >     *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
 >
 >     On 8/10/18 10:37, Mike Hammett wrote:
 >      > The problem doesn't just apply to WISPs. UBNT has now
proven that
 >      > they're willing to sue their customers over things
unrelated to
 >     lack of
 >      > payment.
 >
 >
 >     I don't think their fanbase will care.
 >
 >     --
 >     AF mailing list
 > AF@af.afmug.com  >
 > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
 >
 >     --
 >     AF mailing list
 > AF@af.afmug.com  >
 > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
 >
 >
 >

-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Hacked is used just for the benefit of the members of the Jury and any 
less technical members of the court...


On 8/10/18 1:40 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Sure sounds to me like echos of people rooting iphones and apple computers.
Lawyers always like to call the alleged misdeeds of the other side by 
the most nefarious sounding tags possible.
If you did not decompile, or in anyway modify firmware, you did not hack 
it.

Moreover, it would be cracked firmware I would think.
But judges and juries do not recognize that distinction.
Their lawyers probably do not either.
*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 2:30 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
Ubiquiti contends that some of their software is still running after you 
install Elevate. They never refer to Elevate by name; throughout the 
document they call it "Hacked Firmware" capitalized like a proper noun.


AirOS is OpenWRT (ie Linux).  The hardware is a general purpose computer 
in a rainproof housing running a general purpose operating system with a 
pretty configuration web page.  I would characterize ePMP the same way.  
I'm oversimplifying, but that's /basically/ what these products are.


I'm sure they will present their case a different way than I am, but if 
I've bought the hardware and now I own it, I am definitely allowed to 
put my own software on it, or even put someone else's software on it.  I 
don't believe for a minute that I could be constrained by an EULA in 
this.  I'm sure we'll find out who's right in court, but if Jay's 
argument is right, that would be like selling me a hammer and making me 
click an agreement that I can only hit your proprietary nails with it.  
Or selling me a car and telling me I can only put your brand of gasoline 
in it.


-Adam


On 8/10/2018 4:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
OK, but if you violate a software agreement, you should just simply 
stop using the code, right?
Does Cambium root the radio or is there still UBNT code running?  I 
have not followed this product at all.

*From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:46 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
oh yes they are.  the agreement itself tells the user what they can 
and can't do.  the lawsuit is saying cambium violated that agreement 
by changing the code, etc, and even using / reusing some of the same 
code.  and replacing the copyright with cambium's copyright, lots of 
little things adding up.


- Original Message -
*From:* Mathew Howard
*To:* AFMUG
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 2:41 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
Unless the radio is old enough that it came with firmware that
didn't have that feature...
But they're saying that Cambium is specifically instructing people
to accept the agreement, and then violate the terms. They don't
appear to be going after anyone so much for violating the
agreement, but rather for telling other people to violate the
agreement.
On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:34 PM CBB - Jay Fuller
 wrote:

they're saying you have to accept the license agreement to
access a radio to even change software.
they are right - - unless you use tftp recovery.   you don't
have to do that on a dell computer.

- Original Message -
*From:* Adam Moffett
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:47 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
Dell isn't harmed when you install Linux on your computer.
Likewise I don't see how Ubiquiti is harmed when you
install Elevate.

Someone has to spell out the difference for me.


On 8/10/2018 2:40 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

so - assuming they are held liable and have to pay damages
how much do ya'll estimate they've made from elevate?
now, don't get me wrong, i have a soft spot for both
companies.  they've both made me a lot of money.
i hate to see them doing this - - but i fully see ubnt's
point of view too.

- Original Message -
*From:* Mathew Howard
*To:* AFMUG
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:37 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
Cambium is not publicly traded... unless something
has changed recently.
On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:30 PM CBB - Jay Fuller
 wrote:

wasn't aware cambium was publically traded?

- Original Message -
*From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:23 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Dell doesn't make/profit from Windows muchly, that is a big difference. 
 Dell doesn't have to worry about linux violating FCC rules ( not laws 
)..  I haven't run elevate, are there switches/controls that might allow 
power/frequency violations?   Isn't the chipset basically the same as 
Cambium is using in their hardware?   The only way I would see a 
possible FCC violation would be if it exposes something that Ubnt should 
not have had in the product...


On 8/10/18 11:47 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Dell isn't harmed when you install Linux on your computer.
Likewise I don't see how Ubiquiti is harmed when you install Elevate.

Someone has to spell out the difference for me.


On 8/10/2018 2:40 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

so - assuming they are held liable and have to pay damages
how much do ya'll estimate they've made from elevate?
now, don't get me wrong, i have a soft spot for both companies.  
they've both made me a lot of money.
i hate to see them doing this - - but i fully see ubnt's point of view 
too.


- Original Message -
*From:* Mathew Howard 
*To:* AFMUG 
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:37 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Cambium is not publicly traded... unless something has changed
recently.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:30 PM CBB - Jay Fuller
mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:

wasn't aware cambium was publically traded?

- Original Message -
*From:* ch...@wbmfg.com 
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:23 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Or short Cambium you never know.
MoviePass is selling at 5.1 cents per share right now.
Or 20 milli cents in pre split dollars. Millipennys? 
Money is metric, right?

In other words, I bought at 60 cents and it is now at
0.020 cents...
*From:* Tyson Burris
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 12:19 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Looks like its time to short the hell of UBNT stock.  I
don’t see a lawsuit as a favorable to WISP opinions.
Dragging WISPs and Vendors into it is very sticky.

Could end up being negative.

*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce Dr.**
**Franklin, IN 46131**
***
*Daytime #**317-738-0320 *
*Cell/Direct #**317-412-1540 *
*Online: **www.surfici.net*

ICI

*What can ICI do for you?*


*Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh
Wifi/Hotzones - IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
**
*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
*addressee shown. It contains information that is*
*confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
*dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
*unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
*prohibited.*

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 12:34 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium


https://www.fcc.gov/news-events/blog/2015/11/12/clearing-air-wi-fi-software-updates



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 








*From: *"Mike Hammett" 
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
*Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 9:31:29 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751

Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Would the EULA keep you from using their bootloader?

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 2:43 PM
To: AFMUG 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Once you've bought the hardware, you can put software on it, but the question 
is can somebody else sell software that specifically requires you to violate an 
EULA. Another interesting side note, is that Cambium doesn't actually sell the 
firmware, that's free to download on their website for anyone - what you have 
to buy is the license on the Cambium AP to let that firmware connect to it.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 3:31 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

  Ubiquiti contends that some of their software is still running after you 
install Elevate. They never refer to Elevate by name; throughout the document 
they call it "Hacked Firmware" capitalized like a proper noun.  

  AirOS is OpenWRT (ie Linux).  The hardware is a general purpose computer in a 
rainproof housing running a general purpose operating system with a pretty 
configuration web page.  I would characterize ePMP the same way.  I'm 
oversimplifying, but that's basically what these products are.

  I'm sure they will present their case a different way than I am, but if I've 
bought the hardware and now I own it, I am definitely allowed to put my own 
software on it, or even put someone else's software on it.  I don't believe for 
a minute that I could be constrained by an EULA in this.  I'm sure we'll find 
out who's right in court, but if Jay's argument is right, that would be like 
selling me a hammer and making me click an agreement that I can only hit your 
proprietary nails with it.  Or selling me a car and telling me I can only put 
your brand of gasoline in it.

  -Adam

  On 8/10/2018 4:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

OK, but if you violate a software agreement, you should just simply stop 
using the code, right?
Does Cambium root the radio or is there still UBNT code running?  I have 
not followed this product at all.  

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:46 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

oh yes they are.  the agreement itself tells the user what they can and 
can't do.  the lawsuit is saying cambium violated that agreement by changing 
the code, etc, and even using / reusing some of the same code.  and replacing 
the copyright with cambium's copyright, lots of little things adding up.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Mathew Howard 
  To: AFMUG 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 2:41 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  Unless the radio is old enough that it came with firmware that didn't 
have that feature... 

  But they're saying that Cambium is specifically instructing people to 
accept the agreement, and then violate the terms. They don't appear to be going 
after anyone so much for violating the agreement, but rather for telling other 
people to violate the agreement.

  On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:34 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
 wrote:

they're saying you have to accept the license agreement to access a 
radio to even change software.
they are right - - unless you use tftp recovery.   you don't have to do 
that on a dell computer.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Adam Moffett 
  To: af@af.afmug.com 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  Dell isn't harmed when you install Linux on your computer.
  Likewise I don't see how Ubiquiti is harmed when you install Elevate.

  Someone has to spell out the difference for me.

  On 8/10/2018 2:40 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

so - assuming they are held liable and have to pay damages

how much do ya'll estimate they've made from elevate?

now, don't get me wrong, i have a soft spot for both companies.  
they've both made me a lot of money.

i hate to see them doing this - - but i fully see ubnt's point of 
view too.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Mathew Howard 
  To: AFMUG 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:37 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  Cambium is not publicly traded... unless something has changed 
recently.

  On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:30 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
 wrote:

wasn't aware cambium was publically traded?

  - Original Message - 
  From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:23 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  Or short Cambium you never know.  

  MoviePass is selling at 5.1 cents per share right now.  
  Or 20 milli cents in pre split

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Well, one would hope that this company did something a little more
substantial than just say some bad stuff for them to take it that far...

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 4:50 PM Robert  wrote:

> They have...
>
> On 8/10/18 10:52 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
> > Right, the fanboys will probably think this is great, but in reality,
> > they're a probably a pretty insignificant percentage of their customers.
> > As things stand now, I use both and I use whichever product works better
> > in any particular situation... but this sort of thing certainly leaves a
> > bad taste in my mouth, and if I was somebody trying to decide between
> > the two products, this would certainly push me more towards Cambium.
> >
> > And it makes you wonder if they're going to start suing people just for
> > saying bad stuff about them on the internet...
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:46 PM Mike Hammett  > > wrote:
> >
> > There are fanboys of both brands and then there are grownups. The
> > fanboys won't be swayed. The grownups may determine the risk isn't
> > worth it.
> >
> > I use both brands.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> > <
> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> > Midwest Internet Exchange 
> > <
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><
> https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> > The Brothers WISP 
> > 
> >
> >
> > 
> >
>  
> > *From: *"Seth Mattinen"  se...@rollernet.us>>
> > *To: *af@af.afmug.com 
> > *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 12:42:03 PM
> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
> >
> > On 8/10/18 10:37, Mike Hammett wrote:
> >  > The problem doesn't just apply to WISPs. UBNT has now proven that
> >  > they're willing to sue their customers over things unrelated to
> > lack of
> >  > payment.
> >
> >
> > I don't think their fanbase will care.
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com 
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com 
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Higher courts don't have juries. They are all judges.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 2:57 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
wrote:

>
> true, but they're also requesting a jury trial.  not sure that would come
> into play unless the case were moved up to higher courts?
> i guess a lawyer defending could argue a decision made in a prior case
> basically saying it were preempted...
>
> but if that were truly the case, why would anyone be putting license
> agreements on anything anymore?
> wow, this sure has drummed up some list traffic. lol.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Mike Hammett 
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 2:49 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> That's only relevant if the government hasn't already preempted what UBNT
> is requiring.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 2:46:45 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> 
>
> oh yes they are.  the agreement itself tells the user what they can and
> can't do.  the lawsuit is saying cambium violated that agreement by
> changing the code, etc, and even using / reusing some of the same code.
> and replacing the copyright with cambium's copyright, lots of little things
> adding up.
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Mathew Howard 
> *To:* AFMUG 
> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 2:41 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> Unless the radio is old enough that it came with firmware that didn't have
> that feature...
>
> But they're saying that Cambium is specifically instructing people to
> accept the agreement, and then violate the terms. They don't appear to be
> going after anyone so much for violating the agreement, but rather for
> telling other people to violate the agreement.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:34 PM CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> they're saying you have to accept the license agreement to access a radio
>> to even change software.
>> they are right - - unless you use tftp recovery.   you don't have to do
>> that on a dell computer.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Adam Moffett 
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:47 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>
>> Dell isn't harmed when you install Linux on your computer.
>> Likewise I don't see how Ubiquiti is harmed when you install Elevate.
>>
>> Someone has to spell out the difference for me.
>>
>>
>> On 8/10/2018 2:40 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>>
>>
>> so - assuming they are held liable and have to pay damages
>>
>> how much do ya'll estimate they've made from elevate?
>>
>> now, don't get me wrong, i have a soft spot for both companies.  they've
>> both made me a lot of money.
>>
>> i hate to see them doing this - - but i fully see ubnt's point of view
>> too.
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Mathew Howard 
>> *To:* AFMUG 
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:37 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>
>> Cambium is not publicly traded... unless something has changed recently.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:30 PM CBB - Jay Fuller <
>> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> wasn't aware cambium was publically traded?
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:23 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>>
>>> Or short Cambium you never know.
>>>
>>>
>>> MoviePass is selling at 5.1 cents per share right now.
>>> Or 20 milli cents in pre split dollars.   Millipennys?  Money is metric,
>>> right?
>>>
>>> In other words, I bought at 60 cents and it is now at 0.020 cents...
>>>
>>> *From:* Tyson Burris
>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 12:19 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>>
>>>
>>> Looks like its time to short the hell of UBNT stock.  I don’t see a
>>> lawsuit as a favorable to WISP opinions.  Dragging WISPs and Vendors into
>>> it is very sticky.
>>>
>>> Could end up being negative.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>>
>>> *Daytime #* *317-738-0320 *
>>> *Cell/Direct

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

& much worse if they get an injunction that allows them to stop anybody 
from using the software, whether or not they are part of the lawsuit.. 
Ponder that and cringe...


On 8/10/18 10:56 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
I would be concerned as well, and was concerned several years ago, which 
is why I pressed the CEO so hard about it. I have been sued in something 
similar as part of a big baseless pile of crap. I am not saying this is 
baseless, what I am trying to get at is that once you are actually sued, 
you have to spend a ton of time, energy, thought, and money to make it 
go away. Those facts don't change change on the merits of the case. They 
get worse if the case has merit, but it is still expensive to resolve no 
matter how baseless.


On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:42 PM Mike Hammett > wrote:


I don't care about vendor vs. vendor (though I think UBNT's claims
are baseless). My concern is them suing WISPs. I don't care who the
vendor is, you don't sue your customer for anything other than
non-payment.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Cassidy B. Larson" mailto:c...@infowest.com>>

*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 12:39:01 PM

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

If the situations were reversed.. would you think Cambium would go
after Ubiquiti? Or would they just let it slide?


On Aug 10, 2018, at 11:00 AM, Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

THAT is the biggest part of the whole situation. Who is going to
trust Ubiquiti going forward?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From:*"Ben Royer" mailto:operati...@royell.net>>
*To:*"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Sent:*Friday, August 10, 2018 11:57:52 AM
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

I could be way wrong, but it seems to me in the court of public
opinion this will hurt UBNT worse.  I mean, any WISP out there,
and Disti, using or selling Elevate, in my opinion would be
pretty upset UBNT is trying to accuse them as
‘co-conspirators’.  This is a very, very slippery slope UBNT has
just tried to push everyone using Elevate down.
Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
*From:*Adam Moffett 
*Sent:*Friday, August 10, 2018 11:52 AM
*To:*af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
So yeah they are talking about the extra Tx power.  They're also
claiming copyright, DMCA, RICO, CFA, and software licenses
violations.
They also claim mail and wire fraud related to marketing the
hacked firmware.

In a nutshell, they refer to Blip and Winncomm as
"co-conspirators" because they helped promote and distribute
Elevate.


On 8/10/2018 12:13 PM, Doug Hass wrote:

For those of you who want to see it, the complaint from the
court case is attached.
On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:10 AM Mathew Howard
mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:

The thing I'm wondering about here, is what are they
suing the WISP for (yes, I'm too lazy to go find the
documents and read them)?
On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:57 AM Lewis Bergman
mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

My guess will be they are going for an injunction asap probably in Texas 
and hoping the injunction does all the necessary damage.  It's what you 
do when you are watching something happen in a little way that implies 
something much worse about to happen.


On 8/10/18 10:52 AM, David Coudron wrote:
I guess when reading this, the thing that strikes me the most is how 
inflated and exaggerative the language is.  Typically it seems in legal 
documents that overly exaggerative claims are done so for publicity.   
The language in this filing seems to read more like National Enquirer 
and less like an FCC findings summary.  I would expect this to be less 
outlandish if they really felt they had a strong case.   Claiming a 
multi-party hacking conspiracy (which is really what the complaint is 
claiming from what I can discern) is going to be really tough to make 
stick.   Claiming Cambium caused harm to their business due to copyright 
violation would be a much better approach I would think.   But they seem 
to have taken the National Enquirer approach, usually when you hear 
those kinds of things, they don’t go anywhere.   It will be interesting 
to see what happens.


As far as the FCC violation goes, they were more careful in their 
wording.   To my understanding, they basically said that hacking the 
firmware gives someone the ability to violate FCC limits and doesn’t 
imply that they can prove anyone actually did.


Could be they felt that they were compelled to file this case whether 
they feel they can win or not…..


Smarter folks than me will sort it all out…. 

Regards,

David Coudron

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Ryan Ray
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 12:42 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

They named a forum user as a defendant...

" 126. In a post dated December 25, 2017, Defendant Dmitry—noted as an 
“occasional contributor”—posted on a message board instructing a user on 
how to use ePMP with Ubiquiti power supplies"


This whole thing feels like a big joke. Do we not own the hardware we're 
purchasing?


On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Mathew Howard > wrote:


Yeah, so they aren't actually suing the WISP because they were using
it, they're suing them because they're saying they helped market it.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:27 PM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

Case study\testimonial.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 







*From: *ja...@remotelylocated.com 
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 12:24:56 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

How does UBNT know that the WISP in question is actually using
the product?  Did they gain access to the carriers network to
verify? With out them knowing? Other than that it is all hearsay.

Sent from my iPhone


On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

A juror who was an existing Cambium or UBNT customer might
have a pre-existing bias and ought to be removed.
.not that I know anything about it.  Not really my
department.

On 8/10/2018 1:15 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

the jury isn't going to have a clue what you're talking
about.  in fact, they're not going to understand most of
the techno babble.

unless they manage to land a juror who has run cambium
or ubnt gear, that is going to be irrelevant...

- Original Message -

*From:*Robert Andrews 

*To:*af@af.afmug.com 

*Sent:*Friday, August 10, 2018 10:11 AM

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

So much for being the winner by disruption...  
Yeah, you could see this

coming.   Dear Robert has a lot of expenses...  I
just replaced a bunch
of legacy ubnt because

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

They have...

On 8/10/18 10:52 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
Right, the fanboys will probably think this is great, but in reality, 
they're a probably a pretty insignificant percentage of their customers.
As things stand now, I use both and I use whichever product works better 
in any particular situation... but this sort of thing certainly leaves a 
bad taste in my mouth, and if I was somebody trying to decide between 
the two products, this would certainly push me more towards Cambium.

And it makes you wonder if they're going to start suing people just for 
saying bad stuff about them on the internet...

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:46 PM Mike Hammett > wrote:

There are fanboys of both brands and then there are grownups. The
fanboys won't be swayed. The grownups may determine the risk isn't
worth it.

I use both brands.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

*From: *"Seth Mattinen" mailto:se...@rollernet.us>>
*To: *af@af.afmug.com 
*Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 12:42:03 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

On 8/10/18 10:37, Mike Hammett wrote:
 > The problem doesn't just apply to WISPs. UBNT has now proven that
 > they're willing to sue their customers over things unrelated to
lack of
 > payment.

I don't think their fanbase will care.

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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

& that is the real problem...  Corporate Ethics...   ubnt?  Seems a 
little lacking...   They could have made their case without that part...


On 8/10/18 10:37 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

The last I knew, WISPs were still about half of UBNT's revenue.

The problem doesn't just apply to WISPs. UBNT has now proven that 
they're willing to sue their customers over things unrelated to lack of 
payment.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Mathew Howard" 
*To: *"AFMUG" 
*Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 12:34:51 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

I would assume that the percentage of sales of these particular 
products, are mostly going to WISPs. I agree, that it probably won't 
make a huge dent in their overall sales, but it could very easily be 
larger than the amount of sales that they lost because of Elevate (which 
I suspect is very tiny... most people using Elevate were probably moving 
to ePMP anyway, it just made the process a lot easier). The only way 
that I can see this making sense is if they felt they had to do it to 
cover themselves with the FCC.


On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:15 PM Lewis Bergman > wrote:


I am by no means a fan of ubiquiti but I doubt the impact will be of
any great consequence to sales.
I would like to know what percentage of sales go to wisps but I bet
it isn't all that enormous. Secondly, if you are a fan of them, this
is probably a cheering squad opportunity.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 12:01 PM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

THAT is the biggest part of the whole situation. Who is going to
trust Ubiquiti going forward?



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Ben Royer" mailto:operati...@royell.net>>
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 11:57:52 AM

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

I could be way wrong, but it seems to me in the court of public
opinion this will hurt UBNT worse.  I mean, any WISP out there,
and Disti, using or selling Elevate, in my opinion would be
pretty upset UBNT is trying to accuse them as
‘co-conspirators’.  This is a very, very slippery slope UBNT has
just tried to push everyone using Elevate down.
Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
*From:* Adam Moffett 
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 11:52 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
So yeah they are talking about the extra Tx power.  They're also
claiming copyright, DMCA, RICO, CFA, and software licenses
violations.
They also claim mail and wire fraud related to marketing the
hacked firmware.

In a nutshell, they refer to Blip and Winncomm as
"co-conspirators" because they helped promote and distribute
Elevate.


On 8/10/2018 12:13 PM, Doug Hass wrote:

For those of you who want to see it, the complaint from the
court case is attached.
On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:10 AM Mathew Howard
mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:

The thing I'm wondering about here, is what are they
suing the WISP for (yes, I'm too lazy to go find the
documents and read them)?
On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:57 AM Lewis Bergman
mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium


Like you should have trusted them going backwards?

On 8/10/18 10:00 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
THAT is the biggest part of the whole situation. Who is going to trust 
Ubiquiti going forward?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Ben Royer" 
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
*Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 11:57:52 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

I could be way wrong, but it seems to me in the court of public opinion 
this will hurt UBNT worse.  I mean, any WISP out there, and Disti, using 
or selling Elevate, in my opinion would be pretty upset UBNT is trying 
to accuse them as ‘co-conspirators’.  This is a very, very slippery 
slope UBNT has just tried to push everyone using Elevate down.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.
*From:* Adam Moffett 
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 11:52 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
So yeah they are talking about the extra Tx power.  They're also 
claiming copyright, DMCA, RICO, CFA, and software licenses violations.
They also claim mail and wire fraud related to marketing the hacked 
firmware.


In a nutshell, they refer to Blip and Winncomm as "co-conspirators" 
because they helped promote and distribute Elevate.



On 8/10/2018 12:13 PM, Doug Hass wrote:

For those of you who want to see it, the complaint from the court
case is attached.
On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:10 AM Mathew Howard mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:

The thing I'm wondering about here, is what are they suing the
WISP for (yes, I'm too lazy to go find the documents and read
them)?
On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:57 AM Lewis Bergman
mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:

My statement still stands.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 10:10 AM Faisal Imtiaz
mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net>>
wrote:

Love the armchair discussion, with everyone shooting
from the hip, without actually reading the article...

Ubiquiti sued Illinois-based Cambium on Tuesday,
claiming the company is selling firmware that changes
the existing firmware on Ubiquiti's wireless equipment
so it exceeds Ubiquiti's transmission thresholds, making
it no longer compliant with the Federal Communications
Commission's rules.
=
No they are not suing for IP !, they cannot !
They are making an interesting case.
I can also understand why they might be compelled to
make such a case ! ( makes a for a very interesting
liability responsibility ! )
Regards.
Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net



Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email:
supp...@snappytelecom.net
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Lent violation


& burnt it and buried the ashes...  Rev Bob from way back in 88...

On 8/10/18 9:20 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

But do you have the shirt?

On Aug 10, 2018 11:15 AM, "Robert" > wrote:


Sorry, already a devotee to Reverend Bob


On 8/10/18 9:11 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
 > The only solution "Believe in Steve"
 >
 > On Thu, Aug 9, 2018, 5:55 PM Robert mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>
 > >>
wrote:
 >
 >     What is going on these days gives me real appreciation of
what must
 >     have
 >     been going on in the 30's prior to WWII...   & how a supposedly
 >     informed
 >     populace can collectively have their heads up their own
asses.   My own
 >     included...
 >
 >     On 8/9/18 3:37 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com 
> wrote:
 >      > But I thought it too good not to share.
 >      > Quote from a columnist:
 >      > The bacillus of past stupidities lurks dormant but not
dead in the
 >      > social soil everywhere, ready to infect fresh fanaticisms when
 >     they come
 >      > along, as they invariably do.
 >      >
 >      >
 >
 >     --
 >     AF mailing list
 > AF@af.afmug.com  >
 > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 >
 >
 >

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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

2018-08-10 Thread castarritt

If this case makes it to a jury, do you think the evidence presented to the
jury will include a demonstration of an UBNT radio that was "pwned by
skynet"?


On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 3:15 PM  wrote:

> You can always request a jury trial.  Even for the tiniest cases except
> small claims court.
>
> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:55 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
>
> true, but they're also requesting a jury trial.  not sure that would come
> into play unless the case were moved up to higher courts?
> i guess a lawyer defending could argue a decision made in a prior case
> basically saying it were preempted...
>
> but if that were truly the case, why would anyone be putting license
> agreements on anything anymore?
> wow, this sure has drummed up some list traffic. lol.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Mike Hammett
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 2:49 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> That's only relevant if the government hasn't already preempted what UBNT
> is requiring.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 2:46:45 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> 
>
> oh yes they are.  the agreement itself tells the user what they can and
> can't do.  the lawsuit is saying cambium violated that agreement by
> changing the code, etc, and even using / reusing some of the same code.
> and replacing the copyright with cambium's copyright, lots of little things
> adding up.
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Mathew Howard
> *To:* AFMUG
> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 2:41 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> Unless the radio is old enough that it came with firmware that didn't have
> that feature...
>
> But they're saying that Cambium is specifically instructing people to
> accept the agreement, and then violate the terms. They don't appear to be
> going after anyone so much for violating the agreement, but rather for
> telling other people to violate the agreement.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:34 PM CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> they're saying you have to accept the license agreement to access a radio
>> to even change software.
>> they are right - - unless you use tftp recovery.   you don't have to do
>> that on a dell computer.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Adam Moffett
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:47 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>
>> Dell isn't harmed when you install Linux on your computer.
>> Likewise I don't see how Ubiquiti is harmed when you install Elevate.
>>
>> Someone has to spell out the difference for me.
>>
>>
>> On 8/10/2018 2:40 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>>
>>
>> so - assuming they are held liable and have to pay damages
>>
>> how much do ya'll estimate they've made from elevate?
>>
>> now, don't get me wrong, i have a soft spot for both companies.  they've
>> both made me a lot of money.
>>
>> i hate to see them doing this - - but i fully see ubnt's point of view
>> too.
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>> *To:* AFMUG
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:37 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>
>> Cambium is not publicly traded... unless something has changed recently.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:30 PM CBB - Jay Fuller <
>> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> wasn't aware cambium was publically traded?
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:23 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>>
>>> Or short Cambium you never know.
>>>
>>>
>>> MoviePass is selling at 5.1 cents per share right now.
>>> Or 20 milli cents in pre split dollars.   Millipennys?  Money is metric,
>>> right?
>>>
>>> In other words, I bought at 60 cents and it is now at 0.020 cents...
>>>
>>> *From:* Tyson Burris
>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 12:19 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>>
>>>
>>> Looks like its time to short the hell of UBNT

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium


Point taken.  Not trying to start a fight with you.


On 8/10/2018 4:39 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:


Not my argumenthow I interpreted ubnt's argument.

Sent from my smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Adam Moffett" 
To: 
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
Date: Fri, Aug 10, 2018 3:30 PM

Ubiquiti contends that some of their software is still running after 
you install Elevate. They never refer to Elevate by name; throughout 
the document they call it "Hacked Firmware" capitalized like a proper 
noun.


AirOS is OpenWRT (ie Linux).  The hardware is a general purpose 
computer in a rainproof housing running a general purpose operating 
system with a pretty configuration web page.  I would characterize 
ePMP the same way.  I'm oversimplifying, but that's /basically/ what 
these products are.


I'm sure they will present their case a different way than I am, but 
if I've bought the hardware and now I own it, I am definitely allowed 
to put my own software on it, or even put someone else's software on 
it.  I don't believe for a minute that I could be constrained by an 
EULA in this.  I'm sure we'll find out who's right in court, but if 
Jay's argument is right, that would be like selling me a hammer and 
making me click an agreement that I can only hit your proprietary 
nails with it.  Or selling me a car and telling me I can only put your 
brand of gasoline in it.


-Adam


On 8/10/2018 4:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
OK, but if you violate a software agreement, you should just simply 
stop using the code, right?
Does Cambium root the radio or is there still UBNT code running?  I 
have not followed this product at all.

*From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:46 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
oh yes they are.  the agreement itself tells the user what they can 
and can't do.  the lawsuit is saying cambium violated that agreement 
by changing the code, etc, and even using / reusing some of the same 
code.  and replacing the copyright with cambium's copyright, lots of 
little things adding up.


- Original Message -
*From:* Mathew Howard
*To:* AFMUG
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 2:41 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
Unless the radio is old enough that it came with firmware that
didn't have that feature...
But they're saying that Cambium is specifically instructing
people to accept the agreement, and then violate the terms. They
don't appear to be going after anyone so much for violating the
agreement, but rather for telling other people to violate the
agreement.
On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:34 PM CBB - Jay Fuller
 wrote:

they're saying you have to accept the license agreement to
access a radio to even change software.
they are right - - unless you use tftp recovery.   you don't
have to do that on a dell computer.

- Original Message -
*From:* Adam Moffett
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:47 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
Dell isn't harmed when you install Linux on your computer.
Likewise I don't see how Ubiquiti is harmed when you
install Elevate.

Someone has to spell out the difference for me.


On 8/10/2018 2:40 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

so - assuming they are held liable and have to pay damages
how much do ya'll estimate they've made from elevate?
now, don't get me wrong, i have a soft spot for both
companies.  they've both made me a lot of money.
i hate to see them doing this - - but i fully see ubnt's
point of view too.

- Original Message -
*From:* Mathew Howard
*To:* AFMUG
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:37 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
Cambium is not publicly traded... unless something
has changed recently.
On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:30 PM CBB - Jay Fuller
 wrote:

wasn't aware cambium was publically traded?

- Original Message -
*From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:23 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
Or short Cambium you never know.
MoviePass is selling at 5.1 cents per share
right now.
Or 20 milli cents in pre split dollars.  
Millipennys? Money is metric, right?
In other words, I bought at 60 cents and it

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Once you've bought the hardware, you can put software on it, but the
question is can somebody else sell software that specifically requires you
to violate an EULA. Another interesting side note, is that Cambium doesn't
actually sell the firmware, that's free to download on their website for
anyone - what you have to buy is the license on the Cambium AP to let that
firmware connect to it.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 3:31 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Ubiquiti contends that some of their software is still running after you
> install Elevate. They never refer to Elevate by name; throughout the
> document they call it "Hacked Firmware" capitalized like a proper noun.
>
> AirOS is OpenWRT (ie Linux).  The hardware is a general purpose computer
> in a rainproof housing running a general purpose operating system with a
> pretty configuration web page.  I would characterize ePMP the same way.
> I'm oversimplifying, but that's *basically* what these products are.
>
> I'm sure they will present their case a different way than I am, but if
> I've bought the hardware and now I own it, I am definitely allowed to put
> my own software on it, or even put someone else's software on it.  I don't
> believe for a minute that I could be constrained by an EULA in this.  I'm
> sure we'll find out who's right in court, but if Jay's argument is right,
> that would be like selling me a hammer and making me click an agreement
> that I can only hit your proprietary nails with it.  Or selling me a car
> and telling me I can only put your brand of gasoline in it.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> On 8/10/2018 4:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> OK, but if you violate a software agreement, you should just simply stop
> using the code, right?
> Does Cambium root the radio or is there still UBNT code running?  I have
> not followed this product at all.
>
> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:46 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
>
> oh yes they are.  the agreement itself tells the user what they can and
> can't do.  the lawsuit is saying cambium violated that agreement by
> changing the code, etc, and even using / reusing some of the same code.
> and replacing the copyright with cambium's copyright, lots of little things
> adding up.
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Mathew Howard
> *To:* AFMUG
> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 2:41 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> Unless the radio is old enough that it came with firmware that didn't have
> that feature...
>
> But they're saying that Cambium is specifically instructing people to
> accept the agreement, and then violate the terms. They don't appear to be
> going after anyone so much for violating the agreement, but rather for
> telling other people to violate the agreement.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:34 PM CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> they're saying you have to accept the license agreement to access a radio
>> to even change software.
>> they are right - - unless you use tftp recovery.   you don't have to do
>> that on a dell computer.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Adam Moffett
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:47 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>
>> Dell isn't harmed when you install Linux on your computer.
>> Likewise I don't see how Ubiquiti is harmed when you install Elevate.
>>
>> Someone has to spell out the difference for me.
>>
>>
>> On 8/10/2018 2:40 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>>
>>
>> so - assuming they are held liable and have to pay damages
>>
>> how much do ya'll estimate they've made from elevate?
>>
>> now, don't get me wrong, i have a soft spot for both companies.  they've
>> both made me a lot of money.
>>
>> i hate to see them doing this - - but i fully see ubnt's point of view
>> too.
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>> *To:* AFMUG
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:37 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>
>> Cambium is not publicly traded... unless something has changed recently.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:30 PM CBB - Jay Fuller <
>> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> wasn't aware cambium was publically traded?
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:23 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>>
>>> Or short Cambium you never know.
>>>
>>>
>>> MoviePass is selling at 5.1 cents per share right now.
>>> Or 20 milli cents in pre split dollars.   Millipennys?  Money is metric,
>>> right?
>>>
>>> In other words, I bought at 60 cents and it is now at 0.020 cents...
>>>
>>> *From:* Tyson Burris
>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 12:19 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>>
>>>
>>> Looks like its time to short the hell of UBNT stock.  I

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Sure sounds to me like echos of people rooting iphones and apple computers.  

Lawyers always like to call the alleged misdeeds of the other side by the most 
nefarious sounding tags possible. 

If you did not decompile, or in anyway modify firmware, you did not hack it.   
Moreover, it would be cracked firmware I would think.  

But judges and juries do not recognize that distinction.
Their lawyers probably do not either.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 2:30 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Ubiquiti contends that some of their software is still running after you 
install Elevate. They never refer to Elevate by name; throughout the document 
they call it "Hacked Firmware" capitalized like a proper noun.  

AirOS is OpenWRT (ie Linux).  The hardware is a general purpose computer in a 
rainproof housing running a general purpose operating system with a pretty 
configuration web page.  I would characterize ePMP the same way.  I'm 
oversimplifying, but that's basically what these products are.

I'm sure they will present their case a different way than I am, but if I've 
bought the hardware and now I own it, I am definitely allowed to put my own 
software on it, or even put someone else's software on it.  I don't believe for 
a minute that I could be constrained by an EULA in this.  I'm sure we'll find 
out who's right in court, but if Jay's argument is right, that would be like 
selling me a hammer and making me click an agreement that I can only hit your 
proprietary nails with it.  Or selling me a car and telling me I can only put 
your brand of gasoline in it.

-Adam



On 8/10/2018 4:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  OK, but if you violate a software agreement, you should just simply stop 
using the code, right?
  Does Cambium root the radio or is there still UBNT code running?  I have not 
followed this product at all.  

  From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:46 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium


  oh yes they are.  the agreement itself tells the user what they can and can't 
do.  the lawsuit is saying cambium violated that agreement by changing the 
code, etc, and even using / reusing some of the same code.  and replacing the 
copyright with cambium's copyright, lots of little things adding up.


- Original Message - 
From: Mathew Howard 
To: AFMUG 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Unless the radio is old enough that it came with firmware that didn't have 
that feature... 


But they're saying that Cambium is specifically instructing people to 
accept the agreement, and then violate the terms. They don't appear to be going 
after anyone so much for violating the agreement, but rather for telling other 
people to violate the agreement.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:34 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
 wrote:


  they're saying you have to accept the license agreement to access a radio 
to even change software.
  they are right - - unless you use tftp recovery.   you don't have to do 
that on a dell computer.

- Original Message - 
From: Adam Moffett 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Dell isn't harmed when you install Linux on your computer.
Likewise I don't see how Ubiquiti is harmed when you install Elevate.

Someone has to spell out the difference for me.



On 8/10/2018 2:40 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:


  so - assuming they are held liable and have to pay damages

  how much do ya'll estimate they've made from elevate?

  now, don't get me wrong, i have a soft spot for both companies.  
they've both made me a lot of money.

  i hate to see them doing this - - but i fully see ubnt's point of 
view too.


- Original Message - 
From: Mathew Howard 
To: AFMUG 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Cambium is not publicly traded... unless something has changed 
recently.


On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:30 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
 wrote:


  wasn't aware cambium was publically traded?

- Original Message - 
From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Or short Cambium you never know.  


MoviePass is selling at 5.1 cents per share right now.  
Or 20 milli cents in pre split dollars.   Millipennys?  Money 
is metric, right?

In other words, I bought at 60 cents and it is now at 0.020 
cents...

From: Tyson Burris

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

No, they don't have root anything... it's no different from flashing a new
version of the Ubiquiti firmware, from the users perspective. The Ubiquiti
TFTP recovery process still works as normal afterwards, so I'm assuming
they're leaving the bootloader (or whatever other lower level stuff is
there) untouched. It will also maintain the original settings if you flash
the radio back to ubnt firmware (and Cambium leaves files containing their
settings on there too) so the there is certainly some stuff left behind.
I'm guessing that stuff is all stored on separate partitions in the flash
memory, which doesn't get touched... it's basically going to be the same
stuff that gets left alone when you go between ubnt versions.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 3:15 PM  wrote:

> OK, but if you violate a software agreement, you should just simply stop
> using the code, right?
> Does Cambium root the radio or is there still UBNT code running?  I have
> not followed this product at all.
>
> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:46 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
>
> oh yes they are.  the agreement itself tells the user what they can and
> can't do.  the lawsuit is saying cambium violated that agreement by
> changing the code, etc, and even using / reusing some of the same code.
> and replacing the copyright with cambium's copyright, lots of little things
> adding up.
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Mathew Howard
> *To:* AFMUG
> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 2:41 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> Unless the radio is old enough that it came with firmware that didn't have
> that feature...
>
> But they're saying that Cambium is specifically instructing people to
> accept the agreement, and then violate the terms. They don't appear to be
> going after anyone so much for violating the agreement, but rather for
> telling other people to violate the agreement.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:34 PM CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> they're saying you have to accept the license agreement to access a radio
>> to even change software.
>> they are right - - unless you use tftp recovery.   you don't have to do
>> that on a dell computer.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Adam Moffett
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:47 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>
>> Dell isn't harmed when you install Linux on your computer.
>> Likewise I don't see how Ubiquiti is harmed when you install Elevate.
>>
>> Someone has to spell out the difference for me.
>>
>>
>> On 8/10/2018 2:40 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>>
>>
>> so - assuming they are held liable and have to pay damages
>>
>> how much do ya'll estimate they've made from elevate?
>>
>> now, don't get me wrong, i have a soft spot for both companies.  they've
>> both made me a lot of money.
>>
>> i hate to see them doing this - - but i fully see ubnt's point of view
>> too.
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Mathew Howard
>> *To:* AFMUG
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:37 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>
>> Cambium is not publicly traded... unless something has changed recently.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:30 PM CBB - Jay Fuller <
>> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> wasn't aware cambium was publically traded?
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:23 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>>
>>> Or short Cambium you never know.
>>>
>>>
>>> MoviePass is selling at 5.1 cents per share right now.
>>> Or 20 milli cents in pre split dollars.   Millipennys?  Money is metric,
>>> right?
>>>
>>> In other words, I bought at 60 cents and it is now at 0.020 cents...
>>>
>>> *From:* Tyson Burris
>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 12:19 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>>
>>>
>>> Looks like its time to short the hell of UBNT stock.  I don’t see a
>>> lawsuit as a favorable to WISP opinions.  Dragging WISPs and Vendors into
>>> it is very sticky.
>>>
>>> Could end up being negative.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>>
>>> *Daytime #* *317-738-0320 *
>>> *Cell/Direct #* *317-412-1540 *
>>> *Online: **www.surfici.net*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: ICI]
>>>
>>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>>
>>>
>>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones -
>>> IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>>>
>>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
>>> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
>>> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
>>> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
>>> *unauthorized

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Ubiquiti contends that some of their software is still running after you 
install Elevate. They never refer to Elevate by name; throughout the 
document they call it "Hacked Firmware" capitalized like a proper noun.


AirOS is OpenWRT (ie Linux).  The hardware is a general purpose computer 
in a rainproof housing running a general purpose operating system with a 
pretty configuration web page.  I would characterize ePMP the same way.  
I'm oversimplifying, but that's /basically/ what these products are.


I'm sure they will present their case a different way than I am, but if 
I've bought the hardware and now I own it, I am definitely allowed to 
put my own software on it, or even put someone else's software on it.  I 
don't believe for a minute that I could be constrained by an EULA in 
this.  I'm sure we'll find out who's right in court, but if Jay's 
argument is right, that would be like selling me a hammer and making me 
click an agreement that I can only hit your proprietary nails with it.  
Or selling me a car and telling me I can only put your brand of gasoline 
in it.


-Adam


On 8/10/2018 4:13 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
OK, but if you violate a software agreement, you should just simply 
stop using the code, right?
Does Cambium root the radio or is there still UBNT code running?  I 
have not followed this product at all.

*From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:46 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
oh yes they are.  the agreement itself tells the user what they can 
and can't do.  the lawsuit is saying cambium violated that agreement 
by changing the code, etc, and even using / reusing some of the same 
code.  and replacing the copyright with cambium's copyright, lots of 
little things adding up.


- Original Message -
*From:* Mathew Howard
*To:* AFMUG
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 2:41 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
Unless the radio is old enough that it came with firmware that
didn't have that feature...
But they're saying that Cambium is specifically instructing people
to accept the agreement, and then violate the terms. They don't
appear to be going after anyone so much for violating the
agreement, but rather for telling other people to violate the
agreement.
On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:34 PM CBB - Jay Fuller
 wrote:

they're saying you have to accept the license agreement to
access a radio to even change software.
they are right - - unless you use tftp recovery.   you don't
have to do that on a dell computer.

- Original Message -
*From:* Adam Moffett
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:47 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
Dell isn't harmed when you install Linux on your computer.
Likewise I don't see how Ubiquiti is harmed when you
install Elevate.

Someone has to spell out the difference for me.


On 8/10/2018 2:40 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

so - assuming they are held liable and have to pay damages
how much do ya'll estimate they've made from elevate?
now, don't get me wrong, i have a soft spot for both
companies. they've both made me a lot of money.
i hate to see them doing this - - but i fully see ubnt's
point of view too.

- Original Message -
*From:* Mathew Howard
*To:* AFMUG
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:37 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
Cambium is not publicly traded... unless something
has changed recently.
On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:30 PM CBB - Jay Fuller
 wrote:

wasn't aware cambium was publically traded?

- Original Message -
*From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:23 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
Or short Cambium you never know.
MoviePass is selling at 5.1 cents per share
right now.
Or 20 milli cents in pre split dollars.  
Millipennys? Money is metric, right?
In other words, I bought at 60 cents and it
is now at 0.020 cents...
*From:* Tyson Burris
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 12:19 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Looks like its

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Mike's looking to record a special edition of TBW somewhere between 3 - 7 hours 
from now. Let him know if you want to participate. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Mike Hammett"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 9:31:29 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 


https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751 



Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks. 


https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware
 


I'd like to see more of the claims. 


They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium. 
They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP.. 


They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

You can always request a jury trial.  Even for the tiniest cases except small 
claims court.  

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:55 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

true, but they're also requesting a jury trial.  not sure that would come into 
play unless the case were moved up to higher courts?
i guess a lawyer defending could argue a decision made in a prior case 
basically saying it were preempted...

but if that were truly the case, why would anyone be putting license agreements 
on anything anymore?

wow, this sure has drummed up some list traffic. lol.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike Hammett 
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 2:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  That's only relevant if the government hasn't already preempted what UBNT is 
requiring.

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

--

  From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 2:46:45 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  oh yes they are.  the agreement itself tells the user what they can and can't 
do.  the lawsuit is saying cambium violated that agreement by changing the 
code, etc, and even using / reusing some of the same code.  and replacing the 
copyright with cambium's copyright, lots of little things adding up.

- Original Message - 
From: Mathew Howard 
To: AFMUG 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Unless the radio is old enough that it came with firmware that didn't have 
that feature... 

But they're saying that Cambium is specifically instructing people to 
accept the agreement, and then violate the terms. They don't appear to be going 
after anyone so much for violating the agreement, but rather for telling other 
people to violate the agreement.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:34 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
 wrote:

  they're saying you have to accept the license agreement to access a radio 
to even change software.
  they are right - - unless you use tftp recovery.   you don't have to do 
that on a dell computer.

- Original Message - 
From: Adam Moffett 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Dell isn't harmed when you install Linux on your computer.
Likewise I don't see how Ubiquiti is harmed when you install Elevate.

Someone has to spell out the difference for me.

On 8/10/2018 2:40 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

  so - assuming they are held liable and have to pay damages

  how much do ya'll estimate they've made from elevate?

  now, don't get me wrong, i have a soft spot for both companies.  
they've both made me a lot of money.

  i hate to see them doing this - - but i fully see ubnt's point of 
view too.

- Original Message - 
From: Mathew Howard 
To: AFMUG 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Cambium is not publicly traded... unless something has changed 
recently.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:30 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
 wrote:

  wasn't aware cambium was publically traded?

- Original Message - 
From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Or short Cambium you never know.  

MoviePass is selling at 5.1 cents per share right now.  
Or 20 milli cents in pre split dollars.   Millipennys?  Money 
is metric, right?

In other words, I bought at 60 cents and it is now at 0.020 
cents...

From: Tyson Burris 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:19 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Looks like its time to short the hell of UBNT stock.  I don’t 
see a lawsuit as a favorable to WISP opinions.  Dragging WISPs and Vendors into 
it is very sticky.

Could end up being negative.

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 

Daytime # 317-738-0320 
Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540 
Online: www.surfici.net 

What can ICI do for you? 

Broadband Wireless -

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

OK, but if you violate a software agreement, you should just simply stop using 
the code, right?
Does Cambium root the radio or is there still UBNT code running?  I have not 
followed this product at all.  

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:46 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

oh yes they are.  the agreement itself tells the user what they can and can't 
do.  the lawsuit is saying cambium violated that agreement by changing the 
code, etc, and even using / reusing some of the same code.  and replacing the 
copyright with cambium's copyright, lots of little things adding up.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Mathew Howard 
  To: AFMUG 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 2:41 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  Unless the radio is old enough that it came with firmware that didn't have 
that feature... 

  But they're saying that Cambium is specifically instructing people to accept 
the agreement, and then violate the terms. They don't appear to be going after 
anyone so much for violating the agreement, but rather for telling other people 
to violate the agreement.

  On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:34 PM CBB - Jay Fuller  
wrote:

they're saying you have to accept the license agreement to access a radio 
to even change software.
they are right - - unless you use tftp recovery.   you don't have to do 
that on a dell computer.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Adam Moffett 
  To: af@af.afmug.com 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  Dell isn't harmed when you install Linux on your computer.
  Likewise I don't see how Ubiquiti is harmed when you install Elevate.

  Someone has to spell out the difference for me.

  On 8/10/2018 2:40 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

so - assuming they are held liable and have to pay damages

how much do ya'll estimate they've made from elevate?

now, don't get me wrong, i have a soft spot for both companies.  
they've both made me a lot of money.

i hate to see them doing this - - but i fully see ubnt's point of view 
too.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Mathew Howard 
  To: AFMUG 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:37 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  Cambium is not publicly traded... unless something has changed 
recently.

  On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:30 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
 wrote:

wasn't aware cambium was publically traded?

  - Original Message - 
  From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:23 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  Or short Cambium you never know.  

  MoviePass is selling at 5.1 cents per share right now.  
  Or 20 milli cents in pre split dollars.   Millipennys?  Money is 
metric, right?

  In other words, I bought at 60 cents and it is now at 0.020 
cents...

  From: Tyson Burris 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:19 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  Looks like its time to short the hell of UBNT stock.  I don’t see 
a lawsuit as a favorable to WISP opinions.  Dragging WISPs and Vendors into it 
is very sticky.

  Could end up being negative.

  Tyson Burris, President 
  Internet Communications Inc. 
  739 Commerce Dr. 
  Franklin, IN 46131 

  Daytime # 317-738-0320 
  Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540 
  Online: www.surfici.net 

  What can ICI do for you? 

  Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh 
Wifi/Hotzones - IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 

  CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
  addressee shown. It contains information that is 
  confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
  dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
  unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
  prohibited. 

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:34 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

https://www.fcc.gov/news-events/blog/2015/11/12/clearing-air-wi-fi-software-updates

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

That's only relevant if the government hasn't already preempted what UBNT is 
requiring. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 2:46:45 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 



oh yes they are. the agreement itself tells the user what they can and can't 
do. the lawsuit is saying cambium violated that agreement by changing the code, 
etc, and even using / reusing some of the same code. and replacing the 
copyright with cambium's copyright, lots of little things adding up. 




- Original Message - 
From: Mathew Howard 
To: AFMUG 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 2:41 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 



Unless the radio is old enough that it came with firmware that didn't have that 
feature... 



But they're saying that Cambium is specifically instructing people to accept 
the agreement, and then violate the terms. They don't appear to be going after 
anyone so much for violating the agreement, but rather for telling other people 
to violate the agreement. 


On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:34 PM CBB - Jay Fuller < par...@cyberbroadband.net > 
wrote: 





they're saying you have to accept the license agreement to access a radio to 
even change software. 
they are right - - unless you use tftp recovery. you don't have to do that on a 
dell computer. 



- Original Message - 
From: Adam Moffett 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:47 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 

Dell isn't harmed when you install Linux on your computer. 
Likewise I don't see how Ubiquiti is harmed when you install Elevate. 

Someone has to spell out the difference for me. 



On 8/10/2018 2:40 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote: 




so - assuming they are held liable and have to pay damages 

how much do ya'll estimate they've made from elevate? 

now, don't get me wrong, i have a soft spot for both companies. they've both 
made me a lot of money. 

i hate to see them doing this - - but i fully see ubnt's point of view too. 




- Original Message - 
From: Mathew Howard 
To: AFMUG 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:37 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 


Cambium is not publicly traded... unless something has changed recently. 



On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:30 PM CBB - Jay Fuller < par...@cyberbroadband.net > 
wrote: 





wasn't aware cambium was publically traded? 



- Original Message - 
From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:23 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 




Or short Cambium you never know. 


MoviePass is selling at 5.1 cents per share right now. 
Or 20 milli cents in pre split dollars. Millipennys? Money is metric, right? 

In other words, I bought at 60 cents and it is now at 0.020 cents... 




From: Tyson Burris 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:19 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 



Looks like its time to short the hell of UBNT stock. I don’t see a lawsuit as a 
favorable to WISP opinions. Dragging WISPs and Vendors into it is very sticky. 
Could end up being negative. 


Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 

Daytime # 317-738-0320 
Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540 
Online: www.surfici.net 

ICI
What can ICI do for you? 

Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:34 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 


https://www.fcc.gov/news-events/blog/2015/11/12/clearing-air-wi-fi-software-updates
 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 9:31:29 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 

https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751 




Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks. 



https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware
 



I'd like to see more of the claims. 



They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium. 

They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP.. 



They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois. 




- 
Mike Hammett

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

oh yes they are.  the agreement itself tells the user what they can and can't 
do.  the lawsuit is saying cambium violated that agreement by changing the 
code, etc, and even using / reusing some of the same code.  and replacing the 
copyright with cambium's copyright, lots of little things adding up.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Mathew Howard 
  To: AFMUG 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 2:41 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  Unless the radio is old enough that it came with firmware that didn't have 
that feature... 

  But they're saying that Cambium is specifically instructing people to accept 
the agreement, and then violate the terms. They don't appear to be going after 
anyone so much for violating the agreement, but rather for telling other people 
to violate the agreement.

  On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:34 PM CBB - Jay Fuller  
wrote:

they're saying you have to accept the license agreement to access a radio 
to even change software.
they are right - - unless you use tftp recovery.   you don't have to do 
that on a dell computer.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Adam Moffett 
  To: af@af.afmug.com 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  Dell isn't harmed when you install Linux on your computer.
  Likewise I don't see how Ubiquiti is harmed when you install Elevate.

  Someone has to spell out the difference for me.

  On 8/10/2018 2:40 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

so - assuming they are held liable and have to pay damages

how much do ya'll estimate they've made from elevate?

now, don't get me wrong, i have a soft spot for both companies.  
they've both made me a lot of money.

i hate to see them doing this - - but i fully see ubnt's point of view 
too.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Mathew Howard 
  To: AFMUG 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:37 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  Cambium is not publicly traded... unless something has changed 
recently.

  On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:30 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
 wrote:

wasn't aware cambium was publically traded?

  - Original Message - 
  From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:23 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  Or short Cambium you never know.  

  MoviePass is selling at 5.1 cents per share right now.  
  Or 20 milli cents in pre split dollars.   Millipennys?  Money is 
metric, right?

  In other words, I bought at 60 cents and it is now at 0.020 
cents...

  From: Tyson Burris 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:19 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  Looks like its time to short the hell of UBNT stock.  I don’t see 
a lawsuit as a favorable to WISP opinions.  Dragging WISPs and Vendors into it 
is very sticky.

  Could end up being negative.

  Tyson Burris, President 
  Internet Communications Inc. 
  739 Commerce Dr. 
  Franklin, IN 46131 

  Daytime # 317-738-0320 
  Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540 
  Online: www.surfici.net 

  What can ICI do for you? 

  Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh 
Wifi/Hotzones - IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 

  CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
  addressee shown. It contains information that is 
  confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
  dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
  unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
  prohibited. 

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:34 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

https://www.fcc.gov/news-events/blog/2015/11/12/clearing-air-wi-fi-software-updates

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

--

  From: "Mike Hammett" 
  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 9:31:29 AM
  Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751

  Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Unless the radio is old enough that it came with firmware that didn't have
that feature...

But they're saying that Cambium is specifically instructing people to
accept the agreement, and then violate the terms. They don't appear to be
going after anyone so much for violating the agreement, but rather for
telling other people to violate the agreement.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 2:34 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
wrote:

>
> they're saying you have to accept the license agreement to access a radio
> to even change software.
> they are right - - unless you use tftp recovery.   you don't have to do
> that on a dell computer.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Adam Moffett 
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:47 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> Dell isn't harmed when you install Linux on your computer.
> Likewise I don't see how Ubiquiti is harmed when you install Elevate.
>
> Someone has to spell out the difference for me.
>
>
> On 8/10/2018 2:40 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>
>
> so - assuming they are held liable and have to pay damages
>
> how much do ya'll estimate they've made from elevate?
>
> now, don't get me wrong, i have a soft spot for both companies.  they've
> both made me a lot of money.
>
> i hate to see them doing this - - but i fully see ubnt's point of view too.
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Mathew Howard 
> *To:* AFMUG 
> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:37 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> Cambium is not publicly traded... unless something has changed recently.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:30 PM CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> wasn't aware cambium was publically traded?
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:23 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>
>> Or short Cambium you never know.
>>
>>
>> MoviePass is selling at 5.1 cents per share right now.
>> Or 20 milli cents in pre split dollars.   Millipennys?  Money is metric,
>> right?
>>
>> In other words, I bought at 60 cents and it is now at 0.020 cents...
>>
>> *From:* Tyson Burris
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 12:19 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>
>>
>> Looks like its time to short the hell of UBNT stock.  I don’t see a
>> lawsuit as a favorable to WISP opinions.  Dragging WISPs and Vendors into
>> it is very sticky.
>>
>> Could end up being negative.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>
>> *Daytime #* *317-738-0320 *
>> *Cell/Direct #* *317-412-1540 *
>> *Online: **www.surfici.net*
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: ICI]
>>
>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>
>>
>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones -
>> IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>>
>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
>> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
>> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
>> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
>> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
>> *prohibited.*
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 12:34 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.fcc.gov/news-events/blog/2015/11/12/clearing-air-wi-fi-software-updates
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Mike Hammett" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 9:31:29 AM
>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751
>>
>>
>>
>> Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware
>>
>>
>>
>> I'd like to see more of the claims.
>>
>>
>>
>> They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.
>>
>> They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..
>>
>>
>>
>> They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

2018-08-10 Thread Sam Morris

I don't know if it's just the company for which I work, and the business 
agreement they have with Microsoft, or if it's universal, but we're not 
allowed to publish the results of any benchmarking tests we run related 
to anything made by MicroSoft. For instance, if we compared the 
performance of Windows NT to NetWare, we wouldn't be allowed to disclose 
the results of those tests. (And I know I'm going back a few years with 
the product examples...) :)

On 08/10/2018 01:06 PM, Mathew Howard wrote:
That's the thing that bothers me here... this almost comes across as 
them suing some random guy for the equivalent of saying "your product 
sucks" on the internet (I'm not saying that's what they're actually 
doing... I obviously don't know everything that's going on), and I 
wouldn't want anything to do with a company that would do that.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:56 PM Steve Jones > wrote:

I hope not they'll all sue me

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 12:53 PM Mathew Howard mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Right, the fanboys will probably think this is great, but in
reality, they're a probably a pretty insignificant percentage of
their customers.
As things stand now, I use both and I use whichever product
works better in any particular situation... but this sort of
thing certainly leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and if I was
somebody trying to decide between the two products, this would
certainly push me more towards Cambium.

And it makes you wonder if they're going to start suing people
just for saying bad stuff about them on the internet...

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:46 PM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

There are fanboys of both brands and then there are
grownups. The fanboys won't be swayed. The grownups may
determine the risk isn't worth it.

I use both brands.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

*From: *"Seth Mattinen" mailto:se...@rollernet.us>>
*To: *af@af.afmug.com 
*Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 12:42:03 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

On 8/10/18 10:37, Mike Hammett wrote:
 > The problem doesn't just apply to WISPs. UBNT has now
proven that
 > they're willing to sue their customers over things
unrelated to lack of
 > payment.

I don't think their fanbase will care.

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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

2018-08-10 Thread Dustin Jurman

Lawsuit may allow access to sales records.  Same thing happened with White 
Viper back in the direct TV days.  That’s how Direct TV went after the users of 
their products.  Took a bit but certainly possible.

DSJ

From: AF  On Behalf Of ja...@remotelylocated.com
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:36 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

That can all be fabricated. Unless UBNT has solid proof, screen shots of MAC 
address showing in Cambium firmware the case against the WISP is again just 
hearsay.
Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:26 AM, Mike Hammett 
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
Case study\testimonial.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]

From: ja...@remotelylocated.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:24:56 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

How does UBNT know that the WISP in question is actually using the product?  
Did they gain access to the carriers network to verify? With out them knowing? 
Other than that it is all hearsay.
Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
A juror who was an existing Cambium or UBNT customer might have a pre-existing 
bias and ought to be removed.
.not that I know anything about it.  Not really my department.

On 8/10/2018 1:15 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

the jury isn't going to have a clue what you're talking about.  in fact, 
they're not going to understand most of the techno babble.
unless they manage to land a juror who has run cambium or ubnt gear, that is 
going to be irrelevant...

- Original Message -
From: Robert Andrews
To: af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

So much for being the winner by disruption...   Yeah, you could see this
coming.   Dear Robert has a lot of expenses...  I just replaced a bunch
of legacy ubnt because of flat out chip failure.   Old electronics that
fail not because of exposure to discharges or stuff like that.  Just too
cheap run too hot...

On 08/10/2018 08:00 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
> I imagine the reason it didn't happen sooner, is because of the fact
> that it makes Ubiquiti look really bad (especially the part about suing
> a WISP... ). Also, they were probably trying to come up with an argument
> that would hold up.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:55 AM Jason McKemie
> mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
> > wrote:
>
> I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner. The whole elevate thing was
> asking for it.
>
> On Friday, August 10, 2018, Mike Hammett 
> mailto:af...@ics-il.net>
> > wrote:
>
> https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751
>
> Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.
>
> 
> https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware
>
> I'd like to see more of the claims.
>
> They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.
> They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..
>
> They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> >
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium


Dell isn't harmed when you install Linux on your computer.
Likewise I don't see how Ubiquiti is harmed when you install Elevate.

Someone has to spell out the difference for me.


On 8/10/2018 2:40 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

so - assuming they are held liable and have to pay damages
how much do ya'll estimate they've made from elevate?
now, don't get me wrong, i have a soft spot for both companies.  
they've both made me a lot of money.
i hate to see them doing this - - but i fully see ubnt's point of view 
too.


- Original Message -
*From:* Mathew Howard 
*To:* AFMUG 
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:37 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Cambium is not publicly traded... unless something has changed
recently.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:30 PM CBB - Jay Fuller
mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:

wasn't aware cambium was publically traded?

- Original Message -
*From:* ch...@wbmfg.com 
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:23 PM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Or short Cambium you never know.
MoviePass is selling at 5.1 cents per share right now.
Or 20 milli cents in pre split dollars. Millipennys? 
Money is metric, right?
In other words, I bought at 60 cents and it is now at
0.020 cents...
*From:* Tyson Burris
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 12:19 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Looks like its time to short the hell of UBNT stock.  I
don’t see a lawsuit as a favorable to WISP opinions.
Dragging WISPs and Vendors into it is very sticky.

Could end up being negative.

*Tyson Burris, President**
**Internet Communications Inc.**
**739 Commerce Dr.**
**Franklin, IN 46131**
***
*Daytime #**317-738-0320 *
*Cell/Direct #**317-412-1540 *
*Online: **www.surfici.net*

ICI

*What can ICI do for you?*


*Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh
Wifi/Hotzones - IP Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
**
*CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
*addressee shown. It contains information that is*
*confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
*dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
*unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
*prohibited.*

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 12:34 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium


https://www.fcc.gov/news-events/blog/2015/11/12/clearing-air-wi-fi-software-updates



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 








*From: *"Mike Hammett" 
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
*Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 9:31:29 AM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751

Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.


https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware

I'd like to see more of the claims.

They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.

They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..

They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

2018-08-10 Thread Tyson Burris

Interesting. I would consider this a fairly significant lawsuit considering the 
amount of sales volume WISPs generate.
No prints or tapes on the matter anywhere.

I can remember back in the day (2012) telling Herb Greenberg at CNBC that UBNT 
@ 8-9 per share was an awesome buy.
Man,  think of the return.



Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

Daytime # 317-738-0320
Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540
Online: www.surfici.net

[ICI]
What can ICI do for you?

Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the
addressee shown. It contains information that is
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly
prohibited.

From: AF  On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 2:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium


if that is the case then i don't think there is much of a case there.

- Original Message -
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Supreme court cases says you can open and tinker etc without voiding warranties.
I don’t think a license agreement binds you to anything anymore when it comes 
to this type of activity.

From: CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:23 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium


Looked like a strong case to me.  Especially since you have to agree to the 
license agreement before you can do anything.
That being said, I don't think you have to agree to a license agreement to load 
firmware in recovery mode.  But recovery mode wasn't
mentioned anywhere in the document that I saw.

I think I read someone else comment that "user agreements" aren't really being 
enforced in a court of law - almost like non-competes.  I don't know.but if 
the are, yah, technically anyone who has done this could be in trouble.


- Original Message -
From: David Coudron
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

I guess when reading this, the thing that strikes me the most is how inflated 
and exaggerative the language is.  Typically it seems in legal documents that 
overly exaggerative claims are done so for publicity.   The language in this 
filing seems to read more like National Enquirer and less like an FCC findings 
summary.  I would expect this to be less outlandish if they really felt they 
had a strong case.   Claiming a multi-party hacking conspiracy (which is really 
what the complaint is claiming from what I can discern) is going to be really 
tough to make stick.   Claiming Cambium caused harm to their business due to 
copyright violation would be a much better approach I would think.   But they 
seem to have taken the National Enquirer approach, usually when you hear those 
kinds of things, they don’t go anywhere.   It will be interesting to see what 
happens.

As far as the FCC violation goes, they were more careful in their wording.   To 
my understanding, they basically said that hacking the firmware gives someone 
the ability to violate FCC limits and doesn’t imply that they can prove anyone 
actually did.

Could be they felt that they were compelled to file this case whether they feel 
they can win or not…..

Smarter folks than me will sort it all out…. 

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Ryan Ray
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:42 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

They named a forum user as a defendant...

" 126. In a post dated December 25, 2017, Defendant Dmitry—noted as an 
“occasional contributor”—posted on a message board instructing a user on how to 
use ePMP with Ubiquiti power supplies"

This whole thing feels like a big joke. Do we not own the hardware we're 
purchasing?

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Mathew Howard 
mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Yeah, so they aren't actually suing the WISP because they were using it, 
they're suing them because they're saying they helped market it.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:27 PM Mike Hammett 
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
Case study\testimonial.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium


so - assuming they are held liable and have to pay damages

how much do ya'll estimate they've made from elevate?

now, don't get me wrong, i have a soft spot for both companies.  they've both 
made me a lot of money.

i hate to see them doing this - - but i fully see ubnt's point of view too.


  - Original Message - 
  From: Mathew Howard 
  To: AFMUG 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:37 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium


  Cambium is not publicly traded... unless something has changed recently.



  On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:30 PM CBB - Jay Fuller  
wrote:


wasn't aware cambium was publically traded?

  - Original Message - 
  From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:23 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium


  Or short Cambium you never know.  


  MoviePass is selling at 5.1 cents per share right now.  
  Or 20 milli cents in pre split dollars.   Millipennys?  Money is metric, 
right?

  In other words, I bought at 60 cents and it is now at 0.020 cents...

  From: Tyson Burris 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:19 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  Looks like its time to short the hell of UBNT stock.  I don’t see a 
lawsuit as a favorable to WISP opinions.  Dragging WISPs and Vendors into it is 
very sticky.

  Could end up being negative.



  Tyson Burris, President 
  Internet Communications Inc. 
  739 Commerce Dr. 
  Franklin, IN 46131 

  Daytime # 317-738-0320 
  Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540 
  Online: www.surfici.net 





  What can ICI do for you? 


  Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 

  CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
  addressee shown. It contains information that is 
  confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
  dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
  unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
  prohibited. 



  From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:34 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium



  
https://www.fcc.gov/news-events/blog/2015/11/12/clearing-air-wi-fi-software-updates



  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Mike Hammett" 
  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 9:31:29 AM
  Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751



  Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.



  
https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware



  I'd like to see more of the claims.



  They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.

  They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..



  They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.





  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

true. i used a poor choice of words ;)

  - Original Message - 
  From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:29 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  Infringed yes.
  Damaged?  How?

  From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:26 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  patents and intellectual property can't be damaged?
  oh, i strongly disagree.

- Original Message - 
From: Mathew Howard 
To: AFMUG 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

I'm certainly not qualified to argue the legal merits of the case, but it 
seems to me (as an observer who in reality knows nothing about it), that they 
wouldn't be able to show any significant damages from the things that actually 
seem to have merit... so they through all the other stuff in there.

They could maybe get in trouble with the FCC, but until that happens, it's 
kind of hard to argue that it's harmed them. And if they argue that their sales 
were hurt by copyright violations (or whatever it is they're trying to say), I 
would think that's going to be tough to prove... Cambium could even argue that 
their customer started buying UBNT CPE because they're cheaper than the Cambium 
equivalent.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:54 PM David Coudron 
 wrote:

  I guess when reading this, the thing that strikes me the most is how 
inflated and exaggerative the language is.  Typically it seems in legal 
documents that overly exaggerative claims are done so for publicity.   The 
language in this filing seems to read more like National Enquirer and less like 
an FCC findings summary.  I would expect this to be less outlandish if they 
really felt they had a strong case.   Claiming a multi-party hacking conspiracy 
(which is really what the complaint is claiming from what I can discern) is 
going to be really tough to make stick.   Claiming Cambium caused harm to their 
business due to copyright violation would be a much better approach I would 
think.   But they seem to have taken the National Enquirer approach, usually 
when you hear those kinds of things, they don’t go anywhere.   It will be 
interesting to see what happens.   

  As far as the FCC violation goes, they were more careful in their 
wording.   To my understanding, they basically said that hacking the firmware 
gives someone the ability to violate FCC limits and doesn’t imply that they can 
prove anyone actually did.   

  Could be they felt that they were compelled to file this case whether 
they feel they can win or not….. 

  Smarter folks than me will sort it all out…. 

  Regards,

  David Coudron

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Ryan Ray
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:42 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  They named a forum user as a defendant... 

  " 126. In a post dated December 25, 2017, Defendant Dmitry—noted as an 
“occasional contributor”—posted on a message board instructing a user on how to 
use ePMP with Ubiquiti power supplies"

  This whole thing feels like a big joke. Do we not own the hardware we're 
purchasing? 

  On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Mathew Howard  
wrote:

Yeah, so they aren't actually suing the WISP because they were using 
it, they're suing them because they're saying they helped market it.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:27 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

  Case study\testimonial.

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

--

  From: ja...@remotelylocated.com
  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:24:56 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  How does UBNT know that the WISP in question is actually using the 
product?  Did they gain access to the carriers network to verify? With out them 
knowing? Other than that it is all hearsay. 

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett  
wrote:

A juror who was an existing Cambium or UBNT customer might have a 
pre-existing bias and ought to be removed.
.not that I know anything about it.  Not really my department.

On 8/10/2018 1:15 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

  the jury isn't going to have a clue what you're talking about.  
in fact, they're not going to understand most of the techno babble.

  unless they manage to land a juror who has run cambium or ubnt 
gear, that is going to be irrelevant...

- Original Message - 

From: Robert Andrews

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Cambium is not publicly traded... unless something has changed recently.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 1:30 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
wrote:

>
> wasn't aware cambium was publically traded?
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 1:23 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> Or short Cambium you never know.
>
>
> MoviePass is selling at 5.1 cents per share right now.
> Or 20 milli cents in pre split dollars.   Millipennys?  Money is metric,
> right?
>
> In other words, I bought at 60 cents and it is now at 0.020 cents...
>
> *From:* Tyson Burris
> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 12:19 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
>
> Looks like its time to short the hell of UBNT stock.  I don’t see a
> lawsuit as a favorable to WISP opinions.  Dragging WISPs and Vendors into
> it is very sticky.
>
> Could end up being negative.
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris, President*
> *Internet Communications Inc.*
> *739 Commerce Dr.*
> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>
> *Daytime #* *317-738-0320 *
> *Cell/Direct #* *317-412-1540 *
> *Online: **www.surfici.net*
>
>
>
> [image: ICI]
>
> *What can ICI do for you?*
>
>
> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
> Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.*
>
> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
> *prohibited.*
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 12:34 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
>
>
>
> https://www.fcc.gov/news-events/blog/2015/11/12/clearing-air-wi-fi-software-updates
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Mike Hammett" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 9:31:29 AM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751
>
>
>
> Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.
>
>
>
>
> https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware
>
>
>
> I'd like to see more of the claims.
>
>
>
> They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.
>
> They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..
>
>
>
> They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
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> --
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>
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>
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

if that is the case then i don't think there is much of a case there.

  - Original Message - 
  From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:29 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  Supreme court cases says you can open and tinker etc without voiding 
warranties.  
  I don’t think a license agreement binds you to anything anymore when it comes 
to this type of activity.  

  From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:23 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  Looked like a strong case to me.  Especially since you have to agree to the 
license agreement before you can do anything.
  That being said, I don't think you have to agree to a license agreement to 
load firmware in recovery mode.  But recovery mode wasn't
  mentioned anywhere in the document that I saw.

  I think I read someone else comment that "user agreements" aren't really 
being enforced in a court of law - almost like non-competes.  I don't 
know.but if the are, yah, technically anyone who has done this could be in 
trouble.

- Original Message - 
From: David Coudron 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

I guess when reading this, the thing that strikes me the most is how 
inflated and exaggerative the language is.  Typically it seems in legal 
documents that overly exaggerative claims are done so for publicity.   The 
language in this filing seems to read more like National Enquirer and less like 
an FCC findings summary.  I would expect this to be less outlandish if they 
really felt they had a strong case.   Claiming a multi-party hacking conspiracy 
(which is really what the complaint is claiming from what I can discern) is 
going to be really tough to make stick.   Claiming Cambium caused harm to their 
business due to copyright violation would be a much better approach I would 
think.   But they seem to have taken the National Enquirer approach, usually 
when you hear those kinds of things, they don’t go anywhere.   It will be 
interesting to see what happens.   

As far as the FCC violation goes, they were more careful in their wording.  
 To my understanding, they basically said that hacking the firmware gives 
someone the ability to violate FCC limits and doesn’t imply that they can prove 
anyone actually did.   

Could be they felt that they were compelled to file this case whether they 
feel they can win or not….. 

Smarter folks than me will sort it all out…. 

Regards,

David Coudron

From: AF  On Behalf Of Ryan Ray
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:42 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

They named a forum user as a defendant... 

" 126. In a post dated December 25, 2017, Defendant Dmitry—noted as an 
“occasional contributor”—posted on a message board instructing a user on how to 
use ePMP with Ubiquiti power supplies"

This whole thing feels like a big joke. Do we not own the hardware we're 
purchasing? 

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Mathew Howard  
wrote:

  Yeah, so they aren't actually suing the WISP because they were using it, 
they're suing them because they're saying they helped market it.

  On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:27 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

Case study\testimonial.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

From: ja...@remotelylocated.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:24:56 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

How does UBNT know that the WISP in question is actually using the 
product?  Did they gain access to the carriers network to verify? With out them 
knowing? Other than that it is all hearsay. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

  A juror who was an existing Cambium or UBNT customer might have a 
pre-existing bias and ought to be removed.
  .not that I know anything about it.  Not really my department.

  On 8/10/2018 1:15 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

the jury isn't going to have a clue what you're talking about.  in 
fact, they're not going to understand most of the techno babble.

unless they manage to land a juror who has run cambium or ubnt 
gear, that is going to be irrelevant...

  - Original Message - 

  From: Robert Andrews 

  To: af@af.afmug.com 

  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:11 AM

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Supreme court cases says you can open and tinker etc without voiding 
warranties.  
I don’t think a license agreement binds you to anything anymore when it comes 
to this type of activity.  

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:23 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Looked like a strong case to me.  Especially since you have to agree to the 
license agreement before you can do anything.
That being said, I don't think you have to agree to a license agreement to load 
firmware in recovery mode.  But recovery mode wasn't
mentioned anywhere in the document that I saw.

I think I read someone else comment that "user agreements" aren't really being 
enforced in a court of law - almost like non-competes.  I don't know.but if 
the are, yah, technically anyone who has done this could be in trouble.

  - Original Message - 
  From: David Coudron 
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:52 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  I guess when reading this, the thing that strikes me the most is how inflated 
and exaggerative the language is.  Typically it seems in legal documents that 
overly exaggerative claims are done so for publicity.   The language in this 
filing seems to read more like National Enquirer and less like an FCC findings 
summary.  I would expect this to be less outlandish if they really felt they 
had a strong case.   Claiming a multi-party hacking conspiracy (which is really 
what the complaint is claiming from what I can discern) is going to be really 
tough to make stick.   Claiming Cambium caused harm to their business due to 
copyright violation would be a much better approach I would think.   But they 
seem to have taken the National Enquirer approach, usually when you hear those 
kinds of things, they don’t go anywhere.   It will be interesting to see what 
happens.   

  As far as the FCC violation goes, they were more careful in their wording.   
To my understanding, they basically said that hacking the firmware gives 
someone the ability to violate FCC limits and doesn’t imply that they can prove 
anyone actually did.   

  Could be they felt that they were compelled to file this case whether they 
feel they can win or not….. 

  Smarter folks than me will sort it all out…. 

  Regards,

  David Coudron

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Ryan Ray
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:42 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  They named a forum user as a defendant... 

  " 126. In a post dated December 25, 2017, Defendant Dmitry—noted as an 
“occasional contributor”—posted on a message board instructing a user on how to 
use ePMP with Ubiquiti power supplies"

  This whole thing feels like a big joke. Do we not own the hardware we're 
purchasing? 

  On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

Yeah, so they aren't actually suing the WISP because they were using it, 
they're suing them because they're saying they helped market it.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:27 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

  Case study\testimonial.

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

--

  From: ja...@remotelylocated.com
  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:24:56 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  How does UBNT know that the WISP in question is actually using the 
product?  Did they gain access to the carriers network to verify? With out them 
knowing? Other than that it is all hearsay. 

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

A juror who was an existing Cambium or UBNT customer might have a 
pre-existing bias and ought to be removed.
.not that I know anything about it.  Not really my department.

On 8/10/2018 1:15 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

  the jury isn't going to have a clue what you're talking about.  in 
fact, they're not going to understand most of the techno babble.

  unless they manage to land a juror who has run cambium or ubnt gear, 
that is going to be irrelevant...

- Original Message - 

From: Robert Andrews 

To: af@af.afmug.com 

Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:11 AM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

So much for being the winner by disruption...   Yeah, you could see 
this 
coming.   Dear Robert has a lot of expenses...  I just replaced a 
bunch 
of legacy ubnt because of flat out chip failure.   Old electronics 
that 
fail not because of exposure to discharges or

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

2018-08-10 Thread Tyson Burris

Cambium is not public.  Will they counter sue?  You never know.
UBNT earnings is August 24th.

Put your bets in ladies.

Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

Daytime # 317-738-0320
Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540
Online: www.surfici.net

[ICI]
What can ICI do for you?

Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the
addressee shown. It contains information that is
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly
prohibited.

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 2:24 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Is Cambium publically traded?

From: Tyson Burris
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:19 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Looks like its time to short the hell of UBNT stock.  I don’t see a lawsuit as 
a favorable to WISP opinions.  Dragging WISPs and Vendors into it is very 
sticky.
Could end up being negative.

Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

Daytime # 317-738-0320
Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540
Online: www.surfici.net

[ICI]
What can ICI do for you?

Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the
addressee shown. It contains information that is
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly
prohibited.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

https://www.fcc.gov/news-events/blog/2015/11/12/clearing-air-wi-fi-software-updates


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Mike Hammett" mailto:af...@ics-il.net>>
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 9:31:29 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751

Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.

https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware

I'd like to see more of the claims.

They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.
They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..

They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
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[AFMUG] OT sad news story

Here in Utah, there was kid (I think he was a young adult) with a form of 
autism that left him with the inability to fear anything including heights.
He was left on his own for a few moments the other day.  

He saw a substation.
Up and over the fence and climbed one of those monster ground mounted 
transformers.  

Predictable results.

Now, whenever I drive by a substation I cannot help but think of them as a 
playground with lots of fun things to climb etc.
I am sure that is how he saw them.  I wonder how many other kids think of them 
in that way.  

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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

patents and intellectual property can't be damaged?
oh, i strongly disagree.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Mathew Howard 
  To: AFMUG 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:01 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  I'm certainly not qualified to argue the legal merits of the case, but it 
seems to me (as an observer who in reality knows nothing about it), that they 
wouldn't be able to show any significant damages from the things that actually 
seem to have merit... so they through all the other stuff in there.

  They could maybe get in trouble with the FCC, but until that happens, it's 
kind of hard to argue that it's harmed them. And if they argue that their sales 
were hurt by copyright violations (or whatever it is they're trying to say), I 
would think that's going to be tough to prove... Cambium could even argue that 
their customer started buying UBNT CPE because they're cheaper than the Cambium 
equivalent.

  On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:54 PM David Coudron  
wrote:

I guess when reading this, the thing that strikes me the most is how 
inflated and exaggerative the language is.  Typically it seems in legal 
documents that overly exaggerative claims are done so for publicity.   The 
language in this filing seems to read more like National Enquirer and less like 
an FCC findings summary.  I would expect this to be less outlandish if they 
really felt they had a strong case.   Claiming a multi-party hacking conspiracy 
(which is really what the complaint is claiming from what I can discern) is 
going to be really tough to make stick.   Claiming Cambium caused harm to their 
business due to copyright violation would be a much better approach I would 
think.   But they seem to have taken the National Enquirer approach, usually 
when you hear those kinds of things, they don’t go anywhere.   It will be 
interesting to see what happens.   

As far as the FCC violation goes, they were more careful in their wording.  
 To my understanding, they basically said that hacking the firmware gives 
someone the ability to violate FCC limits and doesn’t imply that they can prove 
anyone actually did.   

Could be they felt that they were compelled to file this case whether they 
feel they can win or not….. 

Smarter folks than me will sort it all out…. 

Regards,

David Coudron

From: AF  On Behalf Of Ryan Ray
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:42 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

They named a forum user as a defendant... 

" 126. In a post dated December 25, 2017, Defendant Dmitry—noted as an 
“occasional contributor”—posted on a message board instructing a user on how to 
use ePMP with Ubiquiti power supplies"

This whole thing feels like a big joke. Do we not own the hardware we're 
purchasing? 

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Mathew Howard  
wrote:

  Yeah, so they aren't actually suing the WISP because they were using it, 
they're suing them because they're saying they helped market it.

  On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:27 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

Case study\testimonial.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

From: ja...@remotelylocated.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:24:56 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

How does UBNT know that the WISP in question is actually using the 
product?  Did they gain access to the carriers network to verify? With out them 
knowing? Other than that it is all hearsay. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

  A juror who was an existing Cambium or UBNT customer might have a 
pre-existing bias and ought to be removed.
  .not that I know anything about it.  Not really my department.

  On 8/10/2018 1:15 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

the jury isn't going to have a clue what you're talking about.  in 
fact, they're not going to understand most of the techno babble.

unless they manage to land a juror who has run cambium or ubnt 
gear, that is going to be irrelevant...

  - Original Message - 

  From: Robert Andrews 

  To: af@af.afmug.com 

  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:11 AM

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  So much for being the winner by disruption...   Yeah, you could 
see this 
  coming.   Dear Robert has a lot of expenses...  I just replaced a 
bunch 
  of legacy ubnt because of flat out chip failure.   Old 
electronics that 
  fail not because of exposure to discharges or stuff like that.  
Just too

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

The government preempts license agreements. The government has already said you 
can change your firmware as long as it doesn't operate outside of regulations 
(I forget the wording, but I've already linked to it). 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 1:23:52 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 



Looked like a strong case to me. Especially since you have to agree to the 
license agreement before you can do anything. 
That being said, I don't think you have to agree to a license agreement to load 
firmware in recovery mode. But recovery mode wasn't 
mentioned anywhere in the document that I saw. 

I think I read someone else comment that "user agreements" aren't really being 
enforced in a court of law - almost like non-competes. I don't know.but if 
the are, yah, technically anyone who has done this could be in trouble. 




- Original Message - 
From: David Coudron 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:52 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 



I guess when reading this, the thing that strikes me the most is how inflated 
and exaggerative the language is. Typically it seems in legal documents that 
overly exaggerative claims are done so for publicity. The language in this 
filing seems to read more like National Enquirer and less like an FCC findings 
summary. I would expect this to be less outlandish if they really felt they had 
a strong case. Claiming a multi-party hacking conspiracy (which is really what 
the complaint is claiming from what I can discern) is going to be really tough 
to make stick. Claiming Cambium caused harm to their business due to copyright 
violation would be a much better approach I would think. But they seem to have 
taken the National Enquirer approach, usually when you hear those kinds of 
things, they don’t go anywhere. It will be interesting to see what happens. 

As far as the FCC violation goes, they were more careful in their wording. To 
my understanding, they basically said that hacking the firmware gives someone 
the ability to violate FCC limits and doesn’t imply that they can prove anyone 
actually did. 

Could be they felt that they were compelled to file this case whether they feel 
they can win or not….. 

Smarter folks than me will sort it all out….  

Regards, 

David Coudron 
From: AF  On Behalf Of Ryan Ray 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:42 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 


They named a forum user as a defendant... 



" 126. In a post dated December 25, 2017, Defendant Dmitry—noted as an 
“occasional contributor”—posted on a message board instructing a user on how to 
use ePMP with Ubiquiti power supplies" 



This whole thing feels like a big joke. Do we not own the hardware we're 
purchasing? 



On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 



Yeah, so they aren't actually suing the WISP because they were using it, 
they're suing them because they're saying they helped market it. 





On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:27 PM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Case study\testimonial. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: ja...@remotelylocated.com 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:24:56 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 

How does UBNT know that the WISP in question is actually using the product? Did 
they gain access to the carriers network to verify? With out them knowing? 
Other than that it is all hearsay. 

Sent from my iPhone 


On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 



A juror who was an existing Cambium or UBNT customer might have a pre-existing 
bias and ought to be removed. 
.not that I know anything about it. Not really my department. 



On 8/10/2018 1:15 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote: 





the jury isn't going to have a clue what you're talking about. in fact, they're 
not going to understand most of the techno babble. 

unless they manage to land a juror who has run cambium or ubnt gear, that is 
going to be irrelevant... 





- Original Message - 

From: Robert Andrews 

To: af@af.afmug.com 

Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:11 AM 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 


So much for being the winner by disruption... Yeah, you could see this 
coming. Dear Robert has a lot of expenses... I just replaced a bunch 
of legacy ubnt because of flat out chip failure. Old electronics that 
fail not because of exposure to discharges or stuff like that. Just too 
cheap run too hot... 

On 08/10/2018 08:00 AM, Mathew Howard wrote: 
> I imagine the reason it didn't happen sooner, is

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Looked like a strong case to me.  Especially since you have to agree to the 
license agreement before you can do anything.
That being said, I don't think you have to agree to a license agreement to load 
firmware in recovery mode.  But recovery mode wasn't
mentioned anywhere in the document that I saw.

I think I read someone else comment that "user agreements" aren't really being 
enforced in a court of law - almost like non-competes.  I don't know.but if 
the are, yah, technically anyone who has done this could be in trouble.

  - Original Message - 
  From: David Coudron 
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:52 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  I guess when reading this, the thing that strikes me the most is how inflated 
and exaggerative the language is.  Typically it seems in legal documents that 
overly exaggerative claims are done so for publicity.   The language in this 
filing seems to read more like National Enquirer and less like an FCC findings 
summary.  I would expect this to be less outlandish if they really felt they 
had a strong case.   Claiming a multi-party hacking conspiracy (which is really 
what the complaint is claiming from what I can discern) is going to be really 
tough to make stick.   Claiming Cambium caused harm to their business due to 
copyright violation would be a much better approach I would think.   But they 
seem to have taken the National Enquirer approach, usually when you hear those 
kinds of things, they don’t go anywhere.   It will be interesting to see what 
happens.   

  As far as the FCC violation goes, they were more careful in their wording.   
To my understanding, they basically said that hacking the firmware gives 
someone the ability to violate FCC limits and doesn’t imply that they can prove 
anyone actually did.   

  Could be they felt that they were compelled to file this case whether they 
feel they can win or not….. 

  Smarter folks than me will sort it all out…. 

  Regards,

  David Coudron

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Ryan Ray
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:42 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  They named a forum user as a defendant... 

  " 126. In a post dated December 25, 2017, Defendant Dmitry—noted as an 
“occasional contributor”—posted on a message board instructing a user on how to 
use ePMP with Ubiquiti power supplies"

  This whole thing feels like a big joke. Do we not own the hardware we're 
purchasing? 

  On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

Yeah, so they aren't actually suing the WISP because they were using it, 
they're suing them because they're saying they helped market it.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:27 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

  Case study\testimonial.

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

--

  From: ja...@remotelylocated.com
  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:24:56 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  How does UBNT know that the WISP in question is actually using the 
product?  Did they gain access to the carriers network to verify? With out them 
knowing? Other than that it is all hearsay. 

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

A juror who was an existing Cambium or UBNT customer might have a 
pre-existing bias and ought to be removed.
.not that I know anything about it.  Not really my department.

On 8/10/2018 1:15 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

  the jury isn't going to have a clue what you're talking about.  in 
fact, they're not going to understand most of the techno babble.

  unless they manage to land a juror who has run cambium or ubnt gear, 
that is going to be irrelevant...

- Original Message - 

From: Robert Andrews 

To: af@af.afmug.com 

Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:11 AM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

So much for being the winner by disruption...   Yeah, you could see 
this 
coming.   Dear Robert has a lot of expenses...  I just replaced a 
bunch 
of legacy ubnt because of flat out chip failure.   Old electronics 
that 
fail not because of exposure to discharges or stuff like that.  
Just too 
cheap run too hot...

On 08/10/2018 08:00 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
> I imagine the reason it didn't happen sooner, is because of the 
fact 
> that it makes Ubiquiti look really bad (especially the part about 
suing 
> a WISP... ). Also, they were

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Is Cambium publically traded?

From: Tyson Burris 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:19 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Looks like its time to short the hell of UBNT stock.  I don’t see a lawsuit as 
a favorable to WISP opinions.  Dragging WISPs and Vendors into it is very 
sticky.

Could end up being negative.

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 

Daytime # 317-738-0320 
Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540 
Online: www.surfici.net 

What can ICI do for you? 

Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

https://www.fcc.gov/news-events/blog/2015/11/12/clearing-air-wi-fi-software-updates

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 9:31:29 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751

Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.

https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware

I'd like to see more of the claims.

They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.

They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..

They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Or short Cambium you never know.  


MoviePass is selling at 5.1 cents per share right now.  
Or 20 milli cents in pre split dollars.   Millipennys?  Money is metric, right?

In other words, I bought at 60 cents and it is now at 0.020 cents...

From: Tyson Burris 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:19 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Looks like its time to short the hell of UBNT stock.  I don’t see a lawsuit as 
a favorable to WISP opinions.  Dragging WISPs and Vendors into it is very 
sticky.

Could end up being negative.

 

Tyson Burris, President 
Internet Communications Inc. 
739 Commerce Dr. 
Franklin, IN 46131 
  
Daytime # 317-738-0320 
Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540 
Online: www.surfici.net 

 



What can ICI do for you? 


Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure. 
  
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the 
addressee shown. It contains information that is 
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review, 
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by 
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly 
prohibited. 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

 

https://www.fcc.gov/news-events/blog/2015/11/12/clearing-air-wi-fi-software-updates



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 9:31:29 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751

 

Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.

 

https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware

 

I'd like to see more of the claims.

 

They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.

They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..

 

They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.

 



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP






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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 




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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

I had to have special motorola test software when doing FCC type approvals for 
my antennas.

I would think loading something onto UBNT that could cause it to misbehave 
would invalidate the FCC approval.  
But folks have been rooting linksys routers for years.  

Hmmm

From: Mathew Howard 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:01 PM
To: AFMUG 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

I'm certainly not qualified to argue the legal merits of the case, but it seems 
to me (as an observer who in reality knows nothing about it), that they 
wouldn't be able to show any significant damages from the things that actually 
seem to have merit... so they through all the other stuff in there.

They could maybe get in trouble with the FCC, but until that happens, it's kind 
of hard to argue that it's harmed them. And if they argue that their sales were 
hurt by copyright violations (or whatever it is they're trying to say), I would 
think that's going to be tough to prove... Cambium could even argue that their 
customer started buying UBNT CPE because they're cheaper than the Cambium 
equivalent.


On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:54 PM David Coudron  
wrote:

  I guess when reading this, the thing that strikes me the most is how inflated 
and exaggerative the language is.  Typically it seems in legal documents that 
overly exaggerative claims are done so for publicity.   The language in this 
filing seems to read more like National Enquirer and less like an FCC findings 
summary.  I would expect this to be less outlandish if they really felt they 
had a strong case.   Claiming a multi-party hacking conspiracy (which is really 
what the complaint is claiming from what I can discern) is going to be really 
tough to make stick.   Claiming Cambium caused harm to their business due to 
copyright violation would be a much better approach I would think.   But they 
seem to have taken the National Enquirer approach, usually when you hear those 
kinds of things, they don’t go anywhere.   It will be interesting to see what 
happens.   



  As far as the FCC violation goes, they were more careful in their wording.   
To my understanding, they basically said that hacking the firmware gives 
someone the ability to violate FCC limits and doesn’t imply that they can prove 
anyone actually did.   



  Could be they felt that they were compelled to file this case whether they 
feel they can win or not….. 



  Smarter folks than me will sort it all out…. 



  Regards,



  David Coudron

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Ryan Ray
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:42 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium



  They named a forum user as a defendant... 



  " 126. In a post dated December 25, 2017, Defendant Dmitry—noted as an 
“occasional contributor”—posted on a message board instructing a user on how to 
use ePMP with Ubiquiti power supplies"



  This whole thing feels like a big joke. Do we not own the hardware we're 
purchasing? 



  On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

Yeah, so they aren't actually suing the WISP because they were using it, 
they're suing them because they're saying they helped market it.



On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:27 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

  Case study\testimonial.



  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: ja...@remotelylocated.com
  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:24:56 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  How does UBNT know that the WISP in question is actually using the 
product?  Did they gain access to the carriers network to verify? With out them 
knowing? Other than that it is all hearsay. 

  Sent from my iPhone


  On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

A juror who was an existing Cambium or UBNT customer might have a 
pre-existing bias and ought to be removed.
.not that I know anything about it.  Not really my department.



On 8/10/2018 1:15 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:



  the jury isn't going to have a clue what you're talking about.  in 
fact, they're not going to understand most of the techno babble.

  unless they manage to land a juror who has run cambium or ubnt gear, 
that is going to be irrelevant...



- Original Message - 

From: Robert Andrews 

To: af@af.afmug.com 

Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:11 AM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium



So much for being the winner by disruption...   Yeah, you could see 
this 
coming.   Dear Robert has a lot of expenses...  I just replaced a 
bunch 
of legacy ubnt because of flat out chip failure.   Old electronics 
that 
fail not

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

2018-08-10 Thread Tyson Burris

Looks like its time to short the hell of UBNT stock.  I don’t see a lawsuit as 
a favorable to WISP opinions.  Dragging WISPs and Vendors into it is very 
sticky.
Could end up being negative.

Tyson Burris, President
Internet Communications Inc.
739 Commerce Dr.
Franklin, IN 46131

Daytime # 317-738-0320
Cell/Direct # 317-412-1540
Online: www.surfici.net

[ICI]
What can ICI do for you?

Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - WiMax - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP 
Security - Fiber - Tower - Infrastructure.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the
addressee shown. It contains information that is
confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,
dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by
unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly
prohibited.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

https://www.fcc.gov/news-events/blog/2015/11/12/clearing-air-wi-fi-software-updates


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
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From: "Mike Hammett" mailto:af...@ics-il.net>>
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 9:31:29 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751

Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.

https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware

I'd like to see more of the claims.

They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.
They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..

They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
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The Brothers WISP
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Blip gave a testimonial...

ubnt is alleging they all worked together to financially benefit one another - 
including wincomm

  - Original Message - 
  From: ja...@remotelylocated.com 
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

  How does UBNT know that the WISP in question is actually using the product?  
Did they gain access to the carriers network to verify? With out them knowing? 
Other than that it is all hearsay. 

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

A juror who was an existing Cambium or UBNT customer might have a 
pre-existing bias and ought to be removed.
.not that I know anything about it.  Not really my department.

On 8/10/2018 1:15 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

  the jury isn't going to have a clue what you're talking about.  in fact, 
they're not going to understand most of the techno babble.
  unless they manage to land a juror who has run cambium or ubnt gear, that 
is going to be irrelevant...

- Original Message - 
From: Robert Andrews 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

So much for being the winner by disruption...   Yeah, you could see 
this 
coming.   Dear Robert has a lot of expenses...  I just replaced a bunch 
of legacy ubnt because of flat out chip failure.   Old electronics that 
fail not because of exposure to discharges or stuff like that.  Just 
too 
cheap run too hot...

On 08/10/2018 08:00 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
> I imagine the reason it didn't happen sooner, is because of the fact 
> that it makes Ubiquiti look really bad (especially the part about 
suing 
> a WISP... ). Also, they were probably trying to come up with an 
argument 
> that would hold up.
> 
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:55 AM Jason McKemie 
>  > wrote:
> 
> I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner. The whole elevate thing 
was
> asking for it.
> 
> On Friday, August 10, 2018, Mike Hammett  > wrote:
> 
> 
https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751
> 
> Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.
> 
> 
https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware
> 
> I'd like to see more of the claims.
> 
> They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.
> They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..
> 
> They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 

> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 

> The Brothers WISP 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

That's the thing that bothers me here... this almost comes across as them
suing some random guy for the equivalent of saying "your product sucks" on
the internet (I'm not saying that's what they're actually doing... I
obviously don't know everything that's going on), and I wouldn't want
anything to do with a company that would do that.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:56 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> I hope not they'll all sue me
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 12:53 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:
>
>> Right, the fanboys will probably think this is great, but in reality,
>> they're a probably a pretty insignificant percentage of their customers.
>> As things stand now, I use both and I use whichever product works better
>> in any particular situation... but this sort of thing certainly leaves a
>> bad taste in my mouth, and if I was somebody trying to decide between the
>> two products, this would certainly push me more towards Cambium.
>>
>> And it makes you wonder if they're going to start suing people just for
>> saying bad stuff about them on the internet...
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:46 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> There are fanboys of both brands and then there are grownups. The
>>> fanboys won't be swayed. The grownups may determine the risk isn't worth it.
>>>
>>> I use both brands.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Brothers WISP 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Seth Mattinen" 
>>> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 12:42:03 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>>
>>> On 8/10/18 10:37, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>> > The problem doesn't just apply to WISPs. UBNT has now proven that
>>> > they're willing to sue their customers over things unrelated to lack
>>> of
>>> > payment.
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think their fanbase will care.
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

I'm certainly not qualified to argue the legal merits of the case, but it
seems to me (as an observer who in reality knows nothing about it), that
they wouldn't be able to show any significant damages from the things that
actually seem to have merit... so they through all the other stuff in there.

They could maybe get in trouble with the FCC, but until that happens, it's
kind of hard to argue that it's harmed them. And if they argue that their
sales were hurt by copyright violations (or whatever it is they're trying
to say), I would think that's going to be tough to prove... Cambium could
even argue that their customer started buying UBNT CPE because they're
cheaper than the Cambium equivalent.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:54 PM David Coudron 
wrote:

> I guess when reading this, the thing that strikes me the most is how
> inflated and exaggerative the language is.  Typically it seems in legal
> documents that overly exaggerative claims are done so for publicity.   The
> language in this filing seems to read more like National Enquirer and less
> like an FCC findings summary.  I would expect this to be less outlandish if
> they really felt they had a strong case.   Claiming a multi-party hacking
> conspiracy (which is really what the complaint is claiming from what I can
> discern) is going to be really tough to make stick.   Claiming Cambium
> caused harm to their business due to copyright violation would be a much
> better approach I would think.   But they seem to have taken the National
> Enquirer approach, usually when you hear those kinds of things, they don’t
> go anywhere.   It will be interesting to see what happens.
>
>
>
> As far as the FCC violation goes, they were more careful in their
> wording.   To my understanding, they basically said that hacking the
> firmware gives someone the ability to violate FCC limits and doesn’t imply
> that they can prove anyone actually did.
>
>
>
> Could be they felt that they were compelled to file this case whether they
> feel they can win or not…..
>
>
>
> Smarter folks than me will sort it all out…. 
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Ryan Ray
> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 12:42 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
>
>
> They named a forum user as a defendant...
>
>
>
> " 126. In a post dated December 25, 2017, Defendant Dmitry—noted as an
> “occasional contributor”—posted on a message board instructing a user on
> how to use ePMP with Ubiquiti power supplies"
>
>
>
> This whole thing feels like a big joke. Do we not own the hardware we're
> purchasing?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
> Yeah, so they aren't actually suing the WISP because they were using it,
> they're suing them because they're saying they helped market it.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:27 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> Case study\testimonial.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *ja...@remotelylocated.com
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 12:24:56 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> How does UBNT know that the WISP in question is actually using the
> product?  Did they gain access to the carriers network to verify? With out
> them knowing? Other than that it is all hearsay.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> A juror who was an existing Cambium or UBNT customer might have a
> pre-existing bias and ought to be removed.
> .not that I know anything about it.  Not really my department.
>
> On 8/10/2018 1:15 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>
>
>
> the jury isn't going to have a clue what you're talking about.  in fact,
> they're not going to understand most of the techno babble.
>
> unless they manage to land a juror who has run cambium or ubnt gear, that
> is going to be irrelevant...
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
>
> *From:* Robert Andrews 
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 10:11 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
>
>
> So much for being the winner by disruption...   Yeah, you could see this
> coming.   Dear Robert has a lot of expenses...  I just replaced a bunch
> of legacy ubnt because of flat out chip failure.   Old electronics that
> fail not because of

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

No disagreement. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Lewis Bergman"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:56:08 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 


I would be concerned as well, and was concerned several years ago, which is why 
I pressed the CEO so hard about it. I have been sued in something similar as 
part of a big baseless pile of crap. I am not saying this is baseless, what I 
am trying to get at is that once you are actually sued, you have to spend a ton 
of time, energy, thought, and money to make it go away. Those facts don't 
change change on the merits of the case. They get worse if the case has merit, 
but it is still expensive to resolve no matter how baseless. 



On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:42 PM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




I don't care about vendor vs. vendor (though I think UBNT's claims are 
baseless). My concern is them suing WISPs. I don't care who the vendor is, you 
don't sue your customer for anything other than non-payment. 






- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 








From: "Cassidy B. Larson" < c...@infowest.com > 



To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 



Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:39:01 PM 



Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 

If the situations were reversed.. would you think Cambium would go after 
Ubiquiti? Or would they just let it slide? 







On Aug 10, 2018, at 11:00 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 


THAT is the biggest part of the whole situation. Who is going to trust Ubiquiti 
going forward? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Ben Royer" < operati...@royell.net > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 11:57:52 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 




I could be way wrong, but it seems to me in the court of public opinion this 
will hurt UBNT worse. I mean, any WISP out there, and Disti, using or selling 
Elevate, in my opinion would be pretty upset UBNT is trying to accuse them as 
‘co-conspirators’. This is a very, very slippery slope UBNT has just tried to 
push everyone using Elevate down. 

Thank you, 
Ben Royer, Operations Manager 
Royell Communications, Inc. 





From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 11:52 AM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 

So yeah they are talking about the extra Tx power. They're also claiming 
copyright, DMCA, RICO, CFA, and software licenses violations. 
They also claim mail and wire fraud related to marketing the hacked firmware. 

In a nutshell, they refer to Blip and Winncomm as "co-conspirators" because 
they helped promote and distribute Elevate. 



On 8/10/2018 12:13 PM, Doug Hass wrote: 



For those of you who want to see it, the complaint from the court case is 
attached. 


On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:10 AM Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 



The thing I'm wondering about here, is what are they suing the WISP for (yes, 
I'm too lazy to go find the documents and read them)? 



On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:57 AM Lewis Bergman < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 


My statement still stands. 



On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 10:10 AM Faisal Imtiaz < fai...@snappytelecom.net > 
wrote: 





Love the armchair discussion, with everyone shooting from the hip, without 
actually reading the article... 


 

Ubiquiti sued Illinois-based Cambium on Tuesday, claiming the company is 
selling firmware that changes the existing firmware on Ubiquiti's wireless 
equipment so it exceeds Ubiquiti's transmission thresholds, making it no longer 
compliant with the Federal Communications Commission's rules. 
= 


No they are not suing for IP !, they cannot ! 

They are making an interesting case. 

I can also understand why they might be compelled to make such a case ! ( makes 
a for a very interesting liability responsibility ! ) 



Regards. 


Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

They cited his forum comments about the Elevate product, but in the 
description of who the defendants are they identified Dimitry as a 
Cambium employee.

He wasn't just some rando on the forum.

I'm not saying Ubiquiti is right or wrong, just trying to keep the facts 
straight.

On 8/10/2018 1:41 PM, Ryan Ray wrote:

They named a forum user as a defendant...

" 126. In a post dated December 25, 2017, Defendant Dmitry—noted as an 
“occasional contributor”—posted on a message board instructing a user 
on how to use ePMP with Ubiquiti power supplies"

This whole thing feels like a big joke. Do we not own the hardware 
we're purchasing?

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Mathew Howard > wrote:

Yeah, so they aren't actually suing the WISP because they were
using it, they're suing them because they're saying they helped
market it.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:27 PM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

Case study\testimonial.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

*From: *ja...@remotelylocated.com

*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 12:24:56 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

How does UBNT know that the WISP in question is actually using
the product?  Did they gain access to the carriers network to
verify? With out them knowing? Other than that it is all hearsay.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

A juror who was an existing Cambium or UBNT customer might
have a pre-existing bias and ought to be removed.
.not that I know anything about it. Not really my
department.

On 8/10/2018 1:15 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

the jury isn't going to have a clue what you're
talking about.  in fact, they're not going to
understand most of the techno babble.
unless they manage to land a juror who has run cambium
or ubnt gear, that is going to be irrelevant...

- Original Message -
*From:* Robert Andrews

*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 10:11 AM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

So much for being the winner by disruption...  
Yeah, you could see this
coming.   Dear Robert has a lot of expenses...  I
just replaced a bunch
of legacy ubnt because of flat out chip failure.  
Old electronics that
fail not because of exposure to discharges or
stuff like that.  Just too
cheap run too hot...

On 08/10/2018 08:00 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
> I imagine the reason it didn't happen sooner, is
because of the fact
> that it makes Ubiquiti look really bad
(especially the part about suing
> a WISP... ). Also, they were probably trying to
come up with an argument
> that would hold up.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:55 AM Jason McKemie
> mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner. The
whole elevate thing was
> asking for it.
>
> On Friday, August 10, 2018, Mike Hammett
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>
> > wrote:
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

I would be concerned as well, and was concerned several years ago, which is
why I pressed the CEO so hard about it. I have been sued in something
similar as part of a big baseless pile of crap. I am not saying this is
baseless, what I am trying to get at is that once you are actually sued,
you have to spend a ton of time, energy, thought, and money to make it go
away. Those facts don't change change on the merits of the case. They get
worse if the case has merit, but it is still expensive to resolve no matter
how baseless.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:42 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I don't care about vendor vs. vendor (though I think UBNT's claims are
> baseless). My concern is them suing WISPs. I don't care who the vendor is,
> you don't sue your customer for anything other than non-payment.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Cassidy B. Larson" 
>
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 12:39:01 PM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> If the situations were reversed.. would you think Cambium would go after
> Ubiquiti? Or would they just let it slide?
>
>
> On Aug 10, 2018, at 11:00 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> THAT is the biggest part of the whole situation. Who is going to trust
> Ubiquiti going forward?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Ben Royer" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 11:57:52 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> I could be way wrong, but it seems to me in the court of public opinion
> this will hurt UBNT worse.  I mean, any WISP out there, and Disti, using or
> selling Elevate, in my opinion would be pretty upset UBNT is trying to
> accuse them as ‘co-conspirators’.  This is a very, very slippery slope UBNT
> has just tried to push everyone using Elevate down.
>
> Thank you,
> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
> Royell Communications, Inc.
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett 
> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 11:52 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> So yeah they are talking about the extra Tx power.  They're also claiming
> copyright, DMCA, RICO, CFA, and software licenses violations.
> They also claim mail and wire fraud related to marketing the hacked
> firmware.
>
> In a nutshell, they refer to Blip and Winncomm as "co-conspirators"
> because they helped promote and distribute Elevate.
>
>
> On 8/10/2018 12:13 PM, Doug Hass wrote:
>
> For those of you who want to see it, the complaint from the court case is
> attached.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:10 AM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> The thing I'm wondering about here, is what are they suing the WISP for
>> (yes, I'm too lazy to go find the documents and read them)?
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:57 AM Lewis Bergman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My statement still stands.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 10:10 AM Faisal Imtiaz 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Love the armchair discussion, with everyone shooting from the hip,
 without actually reading the article...

 
 Ubiquiti sued Illinois-based Cambium on Tuesday, claiming the company
 is selling firmware that changes the existing firmware on Ubiquiti's
 wireless equipment so it exceeds Ubiquiti's transmission thresholds, making
 it no longer compliant with the Federal Communications Commission's rules.
 =

 No they are not suing for IP !, they cannot !
 They are making an interesting case.
 I can also understand why they might be compelled to make such a case !
 ( makes a for a very interesting liability responsibility ! )


 Regards.

 Faisal Imtiaz
 Snappy Internet &

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

I hope not they'll all sue me

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 12:53 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> Right, the fanboys will probably think this is great, but in reality,
> they're a probably a pretty insignificant percentage of their customers.
> As things stand now, I use both and I use whichever product works better
> in any particular situation... but this sort of thing certainly leaves a
> bad taste in my mouth, and if I was somebody trying to decide between the
> two products, this would certainly push me more towards Cambium.
>
> And it makes you wonder if they're going to start suing people just for
> saying bad stuff about them on the internet...
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:46 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> There are fanboys of both brands and then there are grownups. The fanboys
>> won't be swayed. The grownups may determine the risk isn't worth it.
>>
>> I use both brands.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Seth Mattinen" 
>> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 12:42:03 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>
>> On 8/10/18 10:37, Mike Hammett wrote:
>> > The problem doesn't just apply to WISPs. UBNT has now proven that
>> > they're willing to sue their customers over things unrelated to lack of
>> > payment.
>>
>>
>> I don't think their fanbase will care.
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

2018-08-10 Thread David Coudron

I guess when reading this, the thing that strikes me the most is how inflated 
and exaggerative the language is.  Typically it seems in legal documents that 
overly exaggerative claims are done so for publicity.   The language in this 
filing seems to read more like National Enquirer and less like an FCC findings 
summary.  I would expect this to be less outlandish if they really felt they 
had a strong case.   Claiming a multi-party hacking conspiracy (which is really 
what the complaint is claiming from what I can discern) is going to be really 
tough to make stick.   Claiming Cambium caused harm to their business due to 
copyright violation would be a much better approach I would think.   But they 
seem to have taken the National Enquirer approach, usually when you hear those 
kinds of things, they don’t go anywhere.   It will be interesting to see what 
happens.

As far as the FCC violation goes, they were more careful in their wording.   To 
my understanding, they basically said that hacking the firmware gives someone 
the ability to violate FCC limits and doesn’t imply that they can prove anyone 
actually did.

Could be they felt that they were compelled to file this case whether they feel 
they can win or not…..

Smarter folks than me will sort it all out…. 

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF  On Behalf Of Ryan Ray
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:42 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

They named a forum user as a defendant...

" 126. In a post dated December 25, 2017, Defendant Dmitry—noted as an 
“occasional contributor”—posted on a message board instructing a user on how to 
use ePMP with Ubiquiti power supplies"

This whole thing feels like a big joke. Do we not own the hardware we're 
purchasing?

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Mathew Howard 
mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Yeah, so they aren't actually suing the WISP because they were using it, 
they're suing them because they're saying they helped market it.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:27 PM Mike Hammett 
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
Case study\testimonial.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]

From: ja...@remotelylocated.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:24:56 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

How does UBNT know that the WISP in question is actually using the product?  
Did they gain access to the carriers network to verify? With out them knowing? 
Other than that it is all hearsay.
Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
A juror who was an existing Cambium or UBNT customer might have a pre-existing 
bias and ought to be removed.
.not that I know anything about it.  Not really my department.

On 8/10/2018 1:15 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:

the jury isn't going to have a clue what you're talking about.  in fact, 
they're not going to understand most of the techno babble.
unless they manage to land a juror who has run cambium or ubnt gear, that is 
going to be irrelevant...

- Original Message -
From: Robert Andrews
To: af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

So much for being the winner by disruption...   Yeah, you could see this
coming.   Dear Robert has a lot of expenses...  I just replaced a bunch
of legacy ubnt because of flat out chip failure.   Old electronics that
fail not because of exposure to discharges or stuff like that.  Just too
cheap run too hot...

On 08/10/2018 08:00 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
> I imagine the reason it didn't happen sooner, is because of the fact
> that it makes Ubiquiti look really bad (especially the part about suing
> a WISP... ). Also, they were probably trying to come up with an argument
> that would hold up.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:55 AM Jason McKemie
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Right, the fanboys will probably think this is great, but in reality,
they're a probably a pretty insignificant percentage of their customers.
As things stand now, I use both and I use whichever product works better in
any particular situation... but this sort of thing certainly leaves a bad
taste in my mouth, and if I was somebody trying to decide between the two
products, this would certainly push me more towards Cambium.

And it makes you wonder if they're going to start suing people just for
saying bad stuff about them on the internet...

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:46 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> There are fanboys of both brands and then there are grownups. The fanboys
> won't be swayed. The grownups may determine the risk isn't worth it.
>
> I use both brands.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Seth Mattinen" 
> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 12:42:03 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> On 8/10/18 10:37, Mike Hammett wrote:
> > The problem doesn't just apply to WISPs. UBNT has now proven that
> > they're willing to sue their customers over things unrelated to lack of
> > payment.
>
>
> I don't think their fanbase will care.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Amen.  I recently suffered through 1366 days of "a laundry list of shit".  
None of it stuck.  None of it was legit.  

Just vexatious.  


Financially I am glad they sued...

-Original Message- 
From: Seth Mattinen 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 11:41 AM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 


On 8/10/18 09:52, Adam Moffett wrote:
So yeah they are talking about the extra Tx power.  They're also 
claiming copyright, DMCA, RICO, CFA, and software licenses violations.
They also claim mail and wire fraud related to marketing the hacked 
firmware.


In a nutshell, they refer to Blip and Winncomm as "co-conspirators" 
because they helped promote and distribute Elevate.




Anyone who makes up a laundry list of shit usually means they have no 
case but hope something will stick or be intimidated.


--
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Didn't you used to be a ubnt number one fan on their forum?

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 12:46 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> There are fanboys of both brands and then there are grownups. The fanboys
> won't be swayed. The grownups may determine the risk isn't worth it.
>
> I use both brands.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Seth Mattinen" 
> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 12:42:03 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> On 8/10/18 10:37, Mike Hammett wrote:
> > The problem doesn't just apply to WISPs. UBNT has now proven that
> > they're willing to sue their customers over things unrelated to lack of
> > payment.
>
>
> I don't think their fanbase will care.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Except most lists and forums are public archived

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 12:26 PM  wrote:

> How does UBNT know that the WISP in question is actually using the
> product?  Did they gain access to the carriers network to verify? With out
> them knowing? Other than that it is all hearsay.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> A juror who was an existing Cambium or UBNT customer might have a
> pre-existing bias and ought to be removed.
> .not that I know anything about it.  Not really my department.
>
>
> On 8/10/2018 1:15 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>
>
> the jury isn't going to have a clue what you're talking about.  in fact,
> they're not going to understand most of the techno babble.
> unless they manage to land a juror who has run cambium or ubnt gear, that
> is going to be irrelevant...
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Robert Andrews 
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 10:11 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> So much for being the winner by disruption...   Yeah, you could see this
> coming.   Dear Robert has a lot of expenses...  I just replaced a bunch
> of legacy ubnt because of flat out chip failure.   Old electronics that
> fail not because of exposure to discharges or stuff like that.  Just too
> cheap run too hot...
>
> On 08/10/2018 08:00 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
> > I imagine the reason it didn't happen sooner, is because of the fact
> > that it makes Ubiquiti look really bad (especially the part about suing
> > a WISP... ). Also, they were probably trying to come up with an argument
> > that would hold up.
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:55 AM Jason McKemie
> >  >  >> wrote:
> >
> > I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner. The whole elevate thing was
> > asking for it.
> >
> > On Friday, August 10, 2018, Mike Hammett  > > wrote:
> >
> > https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751
> >
> > Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.
> >
> >
> https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware
> >
> > I'd like to see more of the claims.
> >
> > They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.
> > They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..
> >
> > They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> > <
> https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
> >
> > Midwest Internet Exchange 
> > <
> https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >
> > The Brothers WISP 
> > 
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com 
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

There are fanboys of both brands and then there are grownups. The fanboys won't 
be swayed. The grownups may determine the risk isn't worth it. 

I use both brands. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Seth Mattinen"  
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:42:03 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 

On 8/10/18 10:37, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> The problem doesn't just apply to WISPs. UBNT has now proven that 
> they're willing to sue their customers over things unrelated to lack of 
> payment. 


I don't think their fanbase will care. 

-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

I don't think whether or not they used it is relevant. From what I got
skimming through the documents, their part of the "conspiracy" was
completely related to marketing/public statements.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:37 PM  wrote:

> That can all be fabricated. Unless UBNT has solid proof, screen shots of
> MAC address showing in Cambium firmware the case against the WISP is again
> just hearsay.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:26 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> Case study\testimonial.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *ja...@remotelylocated.com
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 12:24:56 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> How does UBNT know that the WISP in question is actually using the
> product?  Did they gain access to the carriers network to verify? With out
> them knowing? Other than that it is all hearsay.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> A juror who was an existing Cambium or UBNT customer might have a
> pre-existing bias and ought to be removed.
> .not that I know anything about it.  Not really my department.
>
>
> On 8/10/2018 1:15 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>
>
> the jury isn't going to have a clue what you're talking about.  in fact,
> they're not going to understand most of the techno babble.
> unless they manage to land a juror who has run cambium or ubnt gear, that
> is going to be irrelevant...
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Robert Andrews 
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 10:11 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> So much for being the winner by disruption...   Yeah, you could see this
> coming.   Dear Robert has a lot of expenses...  I just replaced a bunch
> of legacy ubnt because of flat out chip failure.   Old electronics that
> fail not because of exposure to discharges or stuff like that.  Just too
> cheap run too hot...
>
> On 08/10/2018 08:00 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
> > I imagine the reason it didn't happen sooner, is because of the fact
> > that it makes Ubiquiti look really bad (especially the part about suing
> > a WISP... ). Also, they were probably trying to come up with an argument
> > that would hold up.
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:55 AM Jason McKemie
> >  >  >> wrote:
> >
> > I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner. The whole elevate thing was
> > asking for it.
> >
> > On Friday, August 10, 2018, Mike Hammett  > > wrote:
> >
> > https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751
> >
> > Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.
> >
> >
> https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware
> >
> > I'd like to see more of the claims.
> >
> > They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.
> > They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..
> >
> > They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> > <
> https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
> >
> > Midwest Internet Exchange 
> > <
> https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >
> > The Brothers WISP 
> > 
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com 
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
>

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

2018-08-10 Thread Seth Mattinen


On 8/10/18 10:37, Mike Hammett wrote:
The problem doesn't just apply to WISPs. UBNT has now proven that 
they're willing to sue their customers over things unrelated to lack of 
payment.



I don't think their fanbase will care.

--
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

2018-08-10 Thread Ryan Ray

They named a forum user as a defendant...

" 126. In a post dated December 25, 2017, Defendant Dmitry—noted as an
“occasional contributor”—posted on a message board instructing a user on
how to use ePMP with Ubiquiti power supplies"

This whole thing feels like a big joke. Do we not own the hardware we're
purchasing?

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Mathew Howard 
wrote:

> Yeah, so they aren't actually suing the WISP because they were using it,
> they're suing them because they're saying they helped market it.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:27 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> Case study\testimonial.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *ja...@remotelylocated.com
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 12:24:56 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>
>> How does UBNT know that the WISP in question is actually using the
>> product?  Did they gain access to the carriers network to verify? With out
>> them knowing? Other than that it is all hearsay.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>
>> A juror who was an existing Cambium or UBNT customer might have a
>> pre-existing bias and ought to be removed.
>> .not that I know anything about it.  Not really my department.
>>
>>
>> On 8/10/2018 1:15 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>>
>>
>> the jury isn't going to have a clue what you're talking about.  in fact,
>> they're not going to understand most of the techno babble.
>> unless they manage to land a juror who has run cambium or ubnt gear, that
>> is going to be irrelevant...
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Robert Andrews 
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 10:11 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>
>> So much for being the winner by disruption...   Yeah, you could see this
>> coming.   Dear Robert has a lot of expenses...  I just replaced a bunch
>> of legacy ubnt because of flat out chip failure.   Old electronics that
>> fail not because of exposure to discharges or stuff like that.  Just too
>> cheap run too hot...
>>
>> On 08/10/2018 08:00 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>> > I imagine the reason it didn't happen sooner, is because of the fact
>> > that it makes Ubiquiti look really bad (especially the part about suing
>> > a WISP... ). Also, they were probably trying to come up with an
>> argument
>> > that would hold up.
>> >
>> > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:55 AM Jason McKemie
>> > > > > >> wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner. The whole elevate thing was
>> > asking for it.
>> >
>> > On Friday, August 10, 2018, Mike Hammett > > > wrote:
>> >
>> > https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751
>> >
>> > Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.
>> >
>> > https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-
>> ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware
>> >
>> > I'd like to see more of the claims.
>> >
>> > They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.
>> > They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..
>> >
>> > They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -
>> > Mike Hammett
>> > Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> > > IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>> com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>> 
>> >
>> > Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> > > linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>> twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> > The Brothers WISP 
>> > 
>> >
>> >
>> > 
>> >
>> > --
>> > AF mailing list
>> > AF@af.afmug.com 
>> >

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Yep, that is why I worked so hard to get my own FCC type approvals on all my 
stuff.  
KPP never has as far as I know.  Academic but technically required.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 8:39 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

I remember sitting next to Beehive Chuck in Vegas one year and firmly asking if 
Cambium would indemnify WISP's buying their gear from any claims having to do 
with their gear. This is why.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:32 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

  https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751 

  Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.

https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware

  I'd like to see more of the claims.

  They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.
  They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..

  They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

2018-08-10 Thread Seth Mattinen


On 8/10/18 09:52, Adam Moffett wrote:
So yeah they are talking about the extra Tx power.  They're also 
claiming copyright, DMCA, RICO, CFA, and software licenses violations.
They also claim mail and wire fraud related to marketing the hacked 
firmware.


In a nutshell, they refer to Blip and Winncomm as "co-conspirators" 
because they helped promote and distribute Elevate.




Anyone who makes up a laundry list of shit usually means they have no 
case but hope something will stick or be intimidated.


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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

2018-08-10 Thread Cassidy B. Larson

If the situations were reversed.. would you think Cambium would go after 
Ubiquiti? Or would they just let it slide?


> On Aug 10, 2018, at 11:00 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> THAT is the biggest part of the whole situation. Who is going to trust 
> Ubiquiti going forward?
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>   
>  
>  
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>   
>  
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
>  
> 
> 
>  
> From: "Ben Royer" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 11:57:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
> 
> I could be way wrong, but it seems to me in the court of public opinion this 
> will hurt UBNT worse.  I mean, any WISP out there, and Disti, using or 
> selling Elevate, in my opinion would be pretty upset UBNT is trying to accuse 
> them as ‘co-conspirators’.  This is a very, very slippery slope UBNT has just 
> tried to push everyone using Elevate down.
> 
> Thank you,
> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
> Royell Communications, Inc.
> 
> From: Adam Moffett 
> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 11:52 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
> 
> So yeah they are talking about the extra Tx power.  They're also claiming 
> copyright, DMCA, RICO, CFA, and software licenses violations.
> They also claim mail and wire fraud related to marketing the hacked firmware.
> 
> In a nutshell, they refer to Blip and Winncomm as "co-conspirators" because 
> they helped promote and distribute Elevate.
> 
> 
> On 8/10/2018 12:13 PM, Doug Hass wrote:
> For those of you who want to see it, the complaint from the court case is 
> attached.
> 
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:10 AM Mathew Howard  > wrote:
> The thing I'm wondering about here, is what are they suing the WISP for (yes, 
> I'm too lazy to go find the documents and read them)?
> 
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:57 AM Lewis Bergman  > wrote:
> My statement still stands.
> 
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 10:10 AM Faisal Imtiaz  > wrote:
> Love the armchair discussion, with everyone shooting from the hip, without 
> actually reading the article...
> 
> 
> Ubiquiti sued Illinois-based Cambium on Tuesday, claiming the company is 
> selling firmware that changes the existing firmware on Ubiquiti's wireless 
> equipment so it exceeds Ubiquiti's transmission thresholds, making it no 
> longer compliant with the Federal Communications Commission's rules.
> =
> 
> No they are not suing for IP !, they cannot !
> They are making an interesting case.
> I can also understand why they might be compelled to make such a case ! ( 
> makes a for a very interesting liability responsibility ! )
> 
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net 
> 
> 
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
> 
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 
> 
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

The last I knew, WISPs were still about half of UBNT's revenue. 

The problem doesn't just apply to WISPs. UBNT has now proven that they're 
willing to sue their customers over things unrelated to lack of payment. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Mathew Howard"  
To: "AFMUG"  
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:34:51 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 


I would assume that the percentage of sales of these particular products, are 
mostly going to WISPs. I agree, that it probably won't make a huge dent in 
their overall sales, but it could very easily be larger than the amount of 
sales that they lost because of Elevate (which I suspect is very tiny... most 
people using Elevate were probably moving to ePMP anyway, it just made the 
process a lot easier). The only way that I can see this making sense is if they 
felt they had to do it to cover themselves with the FCC. 



On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:15 PM Lewis Bergman < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 


I am by no means a fan of ubiquiti but I doubt the impact will be of any great 
consequence to sales. 
I would like to know what percentage of sales go to wisps but I bet it isn't 
all that enormous. Secondly, if you are a fan of them, this is probably a 
cheering squad opportunity. 



On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 12:01 PM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




THAT is the biggest part of the whole situation. Who is going to trust Ubiquiti 
going forward? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Ben Royer" < operati...@royell.net > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 11:57:52 AM 



Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 




I could be way wrong, but it seems to me in the court of public opinion this 
will hurt UBNT worse. I mean, any WISP out there, and Disti, using or selling 
Elevate, in my opinion would be pretty upset UBNT is trying to accuse them as 
‘co-conspirators’. This is a very, very slippery slope UBNT has just tried to 
push everyone using Elevate down. 

Thank you, 
Ben Royer, Operations Manager 
Royell Communications, Inc. 





From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 11:52 AM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 

So yeah they are talking about the extra Tx power. They're also claiming 
copyright, DMCA, RICO, CFA, and software licenses violations. 
They also claim mail and wire fraud related to marketing the hacked firmware. 

In a nutshell, they refer to Blip and Winncomm as "co-conspirators" because 
they helped promote and distribute Elevate. 



On 8/10/2018 12:13 PM, Doug Hass wrote: 



For those of you who want to see it, the complaint from the court case is 
attached. 


On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:10 AM Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 



The thing I'm wondering about here, is what are they suing the WISP for (yes, 
I'm too lazy to go find the documents and read them)? 



On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:57 AM Lewis Bergman < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 


My statement still stands. 



On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 10:10 AM Faisal Imtiaz < fai...@snappytelecom.net > 
wrote: 





Love the armchair discussion, with everyone shooting from the hip, without 
actually reading the article... 


 

Ubiquiti sued Illinois-based Cambium on Tuesday, claiming the company is 
selling firmware that changes the existing firmware on Ubiquiti's wireless 
equipment so it exceeds Ubiquiti's transmission thresholds, making it no longer 
compliant with the Federal Communications Commission's rules. 
= 


No they are not suing for IP !, they cannot ! 

They are making an interesting case. 

I can also understand why they might be compelled to make such a case ! ( makes 
a for a very interesting liability responsibility ! ) 



Regards. 


Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Yeah, so they aren't actually suing the WISP because they were using it,
they're suing them because they're saying they helped market it.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:27 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Case study\testimonial.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *ja...@remotelylocated.com
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 12:24:56 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> How does UBNT know that the WISP in question is actually using the
> product?  Did they gain access to the carriers network to verify? With out
> them knowing? Other than that it is all hearsay.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> A juror who was an existing Cambium or UBNT customer might have a
> pre-existing bias and ought to be removed.
> .not that I know anything about it.  Not really my department.
>
>
> On 8/10/2018 1:15 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>
>
> the jury isn't going to have a clue what you're talking about.  in fact,
> they're not going to understand most of the techno babble.
> unless they manage to land a juror who has run cambium or ubnt gear, that
> is going to be irrelevant...
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Robert Andrews 
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 10:11 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> So much for being the winner by disruption...   Yeah, you could see this
> coming.   Dear Robert has a lot of expenses...  I just replaced a bunch
> of legacy ubnt because of flat out chip failure.   Old electronics that
> fail not because of exposure to discharges or stuff like that.  Just too
> cheap run too hot...
>
> On 08/10/2018 08:00 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
> > I imagine the reason it didn't happen sooner, is because of the fact
> > that it makes Ubiquiti look really bad (especially the part about suing
> > a WISP... ). Also, they were probably trying to come up with an argument
> > that would hold up.
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:55 AM Jason McKemie
> >  >  >> wrote:
> >
> > I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner. The whole elevate thing was
> > asking for it.
> >
> > On Friday, August 10, 2018, Mike Hammett  > > wrote:
> >
> > https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751
> >
> > Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.
> >
> >
> https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware
> >
> > I'd like to see more of the claims.
> >
> > They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.
> > They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..
> >
> > They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> > <
> https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
> >
> > Midwest Internet Exchange 
> > <
> https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >
> > The Brothers WISP 
> > 
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com 
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
> >
>
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>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

2018-08-10 Thread jason

That can all be fabricated. Unless UBNT has solid proof, screen shots of MAC 
address showing in Cambium firmware the case against the WISP is again just 
hearsay. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:26 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> Case study\testimonial.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange
> 
> The Brothers WISP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: ja...@remotelylocated.com
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:24:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
> 
> How does UBNT know that the WISP in question is actually using the product?  
> Did they gain access to the carriers network to verify? With out them 
> knowing? Other than that it is all hearsay. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> A juror who was an existing Cambium or UBNT customer might have a 
> pre-existing bias and ought to be removed.
> .not that I know anything about it.  Not really my department.
> 
> 
> On 8/10/2018 1:15 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
>  
> the jury isn't going to have a clue what you're talking about.  in fact, 
> they're not going to understand most of the techno babble.
> unless they manage to land a juror who has run cambium or ubnt gear, that is 
> going to be irrelevant...
>  
> - Original Message -
> From: Robert Andrews
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
> 
> So much for being the winner by disruption...   Yeah, you could see this 
> coming.   Dear Robert has a lot of expenses...  I just replaced a bunch 
> of legacy ubnt because of flat out chip failure.   Old electronics that 
> fail not because of exposure to discharges or stuff like that.  Just too 
> cheap run too hot...
> 
> On 08/10/2018 08:00 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
> > I imagine the reason it didn't happen sooner, is because of the fact 
> > that it makes Ubiquiti look really bad (especially the part about suing 
> > a WISP... ). Also, they were probably trying to come up with an argument 
> > that would hold up.
> > 
> > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:55 AM Jason McKemie 
> >  > > wrote:
> > 
> > I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner. The whole elevate thing was
> > asking for it.
> > 
> > On Friday, August 10, 2018, Mike Hammett  > > wrote:
> > 
> > https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751
> > 
> > Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.
> > 
> > 
> > https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware
> > 
> > I'd like to see more of the claims.
> > 
> > They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.
> > They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..
> > 
> > They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> > 
> > 
> > Midwest Internet Exchange 
> > 
> > 
> > The Brothers WISP 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com 
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

I would assume that the percentage of sales of these particular products,
are mostly going to WISPs. I agree, that it probably won't make a huge dent
in their overall sales, but it could very easily be larger than the amount
of sales that they lost because of Elevate (which I suspect is very tiny...
most people using Elevate were probably moving to ePMP anyway, it just made
the process a lot easier). The only way that I can see this making sense is
if they felt they had to do it to cover themselves with the FCC.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 12:15 PM Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> I am by no means a fan of ubiquiti but I doubt the impact will be of any
> great consequence to sales.
> I would like to know what percentage of sales go to wisps but I bet it
> isn't all that enormous. Secondly, if you are a fan of them, this is
> probably a cheering squad opportunity.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 12:01 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> THAT is the biggest part of the whole situation. Who is going to trust
>> Ubiquiti going forward?
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Ben Royer" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 11:57:52 AM
>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>
>> I could be way wrong, but it seems to me in the court of public opinion
>> this will hurt UBNT worse.  I mean, any WISP out there, and Disti, using or
>> selling Elevate, in my opinion would be pretty upset UBNT is trying to
>> accuse them as ‘co-conspirators’.  This is a very, very slippery slope UBNT
>> has just tried to push everyone using Elevate down.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
>> Royell Communications, Inc.
>>
>> *From:* Adam Moffett 
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 11:52 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>>
>> So yeah they are talking about the extra Tx power.  They're also claiming
>> copyright, DMCA, RICO, CFA, and software licenses violations.
>> They also claim mail and wire fraud related to marketing the hacked
>> firmware.
>>
>> In a nutshell, they refer to Blip and Winncomm as "co-conspirators"
>> because they helped promote and distribute Elevate.
>>
>>
>> On 8/10/2018 12:13 PM, Doug Hass wrote:
>>
>> For those of you who want to see it, the complaint from the court case is
>> attached.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:10 AM Mathew Howard 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The thing I'm wondering about here, is what are they suing the WISP for
>>> (yes, I'm too lazy to go find the documents and read them)?
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:57 AM Lewis Bergman 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 My statement still stands.

 On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 10:10 AM Faisal Imtiaz 
 wrote:

> Love the armchair discussion, with everyone shooting from the hip,
> without actually reading the article...
>
> 
> Ubiquiti sued Illinois-based Cambium on Tuesday, claiming the company
> is selling firmware that changes the existing firmware on Ubiquiti's
> wireless equipment so it exceeds Ubiquiti's transmission thresholds, 
> making
> it no longer compliant with the Federal Communications Commission's rules.
> =
>
> No they are not suing for IP !, they cannot !
> They are making an interesting case.
> I can also understand why they might be compelled to make such a case
> ! ( makes a for a very interesting liability responsibility ! )
>
>
> Regards.
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net
> 
>
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
>
 --
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Case study\testimonial. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ja...@remotelylocated.com 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 12:24:56 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 

How does UBNT know that the WISP in question is actually using the product? Did 
they gain access to the carriers network to verify? With out them knowing? 
Other than that it is all hearsay. 


Sent from my iPhone 

On Aug 10, 2018, at 10:18 AM, Adam Moffett < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 




A juror who was an existing Cambium or UBNT customer might have a pre-existing 
bias and ought to be removed. 
.not that I know anything about it. Not really my department. 



On 8/10/2018 1:15 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote: 




the jury isn't going to have a clue what you're talking about. in fact, they're 
not going to understand most of the techno babble. 
unless they manage to land a juror who has run cambium or ubnt gear, that is 
going to be irrelevant... 



- Original Message - 
From: Robert Andrews 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:11 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 

So much for being the winner by disruption... Yeah, you could see this 
coming. Dear Robert has a lot of expenses... I just replaced a bunch 
of legacy ubnt because of flat out chip failure. Old electronics that 
fail not because of exposure to discharges or stuff like that. Just too 
cheap run too hot... 

On 08/10/2018 08:00 AM, Mathew Howard wrote: 
> I imagine the reason it didn't happen sooner, is because of the fact 
> that it makes Ubiquiti look really bad (especially the part about suing 
> a WISP... ). Also, they were probably trying to come up with an argument 
> that would hold up. 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:55 AM Jason McKemie 
> < j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com 
> < mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com >> wrote: 
> 
> I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner. The whole elevate thing was 
> asking for it. 
> 
> On Friday, August 10, 2018, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net 
> < mailto:af...@ics-il.net >> wrote: 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751 
> 
> Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks. 
> 
> https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware
>  
> 
> I'd like to see more of the claims. 
> 
> They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium. 
> They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP.. 
> 
> They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois. 
> 
> 
> 
> - 
> Mike Hammett 
> Intelligent Computing Solutions < http://www.ics-il.com/ > 
> < 
> https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>  > 
> Midwest Internet Exchange < http://www.midwest-ix.com/ > 
> < 
> https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>  > 
> The Brothers WISP < http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/ > 
> < https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp > 
> 
> 
> < https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg > 
> 
> -- 
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> 
> 

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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

A juror who was an existing Cambium or UBNT customer might have a 
pre-existing bias and ought to be removed.

.not that I know anything about it.  Not really my department.

On 8/10/2018 1:15 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
the jury isn't going to have a clue what you're talking about.  in 
fact, they're not going to understand most of the techno babble.
unless they manage to land a juror who has run cambium or ubnt gear, 
that is going to be irrelevant...

- Original Message -
*From:* Robert Andrews 
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 10:11 AM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

So much for being the winner by disruption...   Yeah, you could
see this
coming.   Dear Robert has a lot of expenses...  I just replaced a
bunch
of legacy ubnt because of flat out chip failure.   Old electronics
that
fail not because of exposure to discharges or stuff like that.
Just too
cheap run too hot...

On 08/10/2018 08:00 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
> I imagine the reason it didn't happen sooner, is because of the
fact
> that it makes Ubiquiti look really bad (especially the part
about suing
> a WISP... ). Also, they were probably trying to come up with an
argument
> that would hold up.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:55 AM Jason McKemie
> mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
> > wrote:
>
> I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner. The whole elevate
thing was
> asking for it.
>
> On Friday, August 10, 2018, Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net>
> > wrote:
>
> https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751
>
> Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.
>
>

https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware
>
> I'd like to see more of the claims.
>
> They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.
> They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..
>
> They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>

>
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>

>
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com  
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>

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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium


Per the court documents, the wisp participated in a criminal enterprise 
(snicker) with cambium and wincomm (distro) to gain financial profit.  
the wisp was one of the operators (or THE) operator who provided testimony that 
elevate improved their network.  ubnt is claiming it was all organized ahead of 
time for $

(yes i read the document)

  - Original Message - 
  From: Mathew Howard 
  To: AFMUG 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 11:09 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium


  The thing I'm wondering about here, is what are they suing the WISP for (yes, 
I'm too lazy to go find the documents and read them)? 



  On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:57 AM Lewis Bergman  
wrote:

My statement still stands. 


On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 10:10 AM Faisal Imtiaz  
wrote:

  Love the armchair discussion, with everyone shooting from the hip, 
without actually reading the article...



  

  Ubiquiti sued Illinois-based Cambium on Tuesday, claiming the company is 
selling firmware that changes the existing firmware on Ubiquiti's wireless 
equipment so it exceeds Ubiquiti's transmission thresholds, making it no longer 
compliant with the Federal Communications Commission's rules.
  =



  No they are not suing for IP !, they cannot !

  They are making an interesting case.

  I can also understand why they might be compelled to make such a case ! ( 
makes a for a very interesting liability responsibility ! )





  Regards.



  Faisal Imtiaz
  Snappy Internet & Telecom
  http://www.snappytelecom.net

  Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

  Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net


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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium


the jury isn't going to have a clue what you're talking about.  in fact, 
they're not going to understand most of the techno babble.
unless they manage to land a juror who has run cambium or ubnt gear, that is 
going to be irrelevant...

  - Original Message - 
  From: Robert Andrews 
  To: af@af.afmug.com 
  Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:11 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium


  So much for being the winner by disruption...   Yeah, you could see this 
  coming.   Dear Robert has a lot of expenses...  I just replaced a bunch 
  of legacy ubnt because of flat out chip failure.   Old electronics that 
  fail not because of exposure to discharges or stuff like that.  Just too 
  cheap run too hot...

  On 08/10/2018 08:00 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
  > I imagine the reason it didn't happen sooner, is because of the fact 
  > that it makes Ubiquiti look really bad (especially the part about suing 
  > a WISP... ). Also, they were probably trying to come up with an argument 
  > that would hold up.
  > 
  > On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:55 AM Jason McKemie 
  >  > wrote:
  > 
  > I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner. The whole elevate thing was
  > asking for it.
  > 
  > On Friday, August 10, 2018, Mike Hammett  > wrote:
  > 
  > https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751
  > 
  > Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.
  > 
  > 
https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware
  > 
  > I'd like to see more of the claims.
  > 
  > They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.
  > They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..
  > 
  > They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > -
  > Mike Hammett
  > Intelligent Computing Solutions 
  > 

  > Midwest Internet Exchange 
  > 

  > The Brothers WISP 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > -- 
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  > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  > 
  > 
  > 

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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

I just read the 72 pages. I think they make a good case.

- Original Message -
From: Adam Moffett
To: af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Elevate is just software. Ubiquiti already sold the hardware and never asked
any money for software. So how is Ubiquiti damaged? They're not damaged any
more than Dell is damaged if you delete Windows to install Ubuntu.

I'm also sure Cambium wouldn't have proceeded with Elevate if they weren't
pretty sure they could defend it legally.

I think there's also a principle that your IP isn't really yours unless you
are making an effort to protect it. So Ubiquiti might feel that they have no
choice but to try.

I'm just sitting safely in my armchair and hypothesizing, and I have no horse
in that race.

-Adam

On 8/10/2018 10:54 AM, Jason McKemie wrote:

I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner. The whole elevate thing was asking
for it.

On Friday, August 10, 2018, Mike Hammett wrote:

https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751

Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.

https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware

I'd like to see more of the claims.

They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.
They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..

They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

I am by no means a fan of ubiquiti but I doubt the impact will be of any
great consequence to sales.
I would like to know what percentage of sales go to wisps but I bet it
isn't all that enormous. Secondly, if you are a fan of them, this is
probably a cheering squad opportunity.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 12:01 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> THAT is the biggest part of the whole situation. Who is going to trust
> Ubiquiti going forward?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Ben Royer" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 11:57:52 AM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> I could be way wrong, but it seems to me in the court of public opinion
> this will hurt UBNT worse.  I mean, any WISP out there, and Disti, using or
> selling Elevate, in my opinion would be pretty upset UBNT is trying to
> accuse them as ‘co-conspirators’.  This is a very, very slippery slope UBNT
> has just tried to push everyone using Elevate down.
>
> Thank you,
> Ben Royer, Operations Manager
> Royell Communications, Inc.
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett 
> *Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2018 11:52 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> So yeah they are talking about the extra Tx power.  They're also claiming
> copyright, DMCA, RICO, CFA, and software licenses violations.
> They also claim mail and wire fraud related to marketing the hacked
> firmware.
>
> In a nutshell, they refer to Blip and Winncomm as "co-conspirators"
> because they helped promote and distribute Elevate.
>
>
> On 8/10/2018 12:13 PM, Doug Hass wrote:
>
> For those of you who want to see it, the complaint from the court case is
> attached.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:10 AM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> The thing I'm wondering about here, is what are they suing the WISP for
>> (yes, I'm too lazy to go find the documents and read them)?
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:57 AM Lewis Bergman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My statement still stands.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 10:10 AM Faisal Imtiaz 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Love the armchair discussion, with everyone shooting from the hip,
 without actually reading the article...

 
 Ubiquiti sued Illinois-based Cambium on Tuesday, claiming the company
 is selling firmware that changes the existing firmware on Ubiquiti's
 wireless equipment so it exceeds Ubiquiti's transmission thresholds, making
 it no longer compliant with the Federal Communications Commission's rules.
 =

 No they are not suing for IP !, they cannot !
 They are making an interesting case.
 I can also understand why they might be compelled to make such a case !
 ( makes a for a very interesting liability responsibility ! )


 Regards.

 Faisal Imtiaz
 Snappy Internet & Telecom
 http://www.snappytelecom.net
 

 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

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 AF mailing list
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

THAT is the biggest part of the whole situation. Who is going to trust Ubiquiti 
going forward? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ben Royer"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 11:57:52 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 




I could be way wrong, but it seems to me in the court of public opinion this 
will hurt UBNT worse. I mean, any WISP out there, and Disti, using or selling 
Elevate, in my opinion would be pretty upset UBNT is trying to accuse them as 
‘co-conspirators’. This is a very, very slippery slope UBNT has just tried to 
push everyone using Elevate down. 

Thank you, 
Ben Royer, Operations Manager 
Royell Communications, Inc. 





From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 11:52 AM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 

So yeah they are talking about the extra Tx power. They're also claiming 
copyright, DMCA, RICO, CFA, and software licenses violations. 
They also claim mail and wire fraud related to marketing the hacked firmware. 

In a nutshell, they refer to Blip and Winncomm as "co-conspirators" because 
they helped promote and distribute Elevate. 



On 8/10/2018 12:13 PM, Doug Hass wrote: 



For those of you who want to see it, the complaint from the court case is 
attached. 


On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:10 AM Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 



The thing I'm wondering about here, is what are they suing the WISP for (yes, 
I'm too lazy to go find the documents and read them)? 



On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:57 AM Lewis Bergman < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > 
wrote: 


My statement still stands. 



On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 10:10 AM Faisal Imtiaz < fai...@snappytelecom.net > 
wrote: 





Love the armchair discussion, with everyone shooting from the hip, without 
actually reading the article... 


 

Ubiquiti sued Illinois-based Cambium on Tuesday, claiming the company is 
selling firmware that changes the existing firmware on Ubiquiti's wireless 
equipment so it exceeds Ubiquiti's transmission thresholds, making it no longer 
compliant with the Federal Communications Commission's rules. 
= 


No they are not suing for IP !, they cannot ! 

They are making an interesting case. 

I can also understand why they might be compelled to make such a case ! ( makes 
a for a very interesting liability responsibility ! ) 



Regards. 


Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

2018-08-10 Thread Ben Royer

I could be way wrong, but it seems to me in the court of public opinion this 
will hurt UBNT worse.  I mean, any WISP out there, and Disti, using or selling 
Elevate, in my opinion would be pretty upset UBNT is trying to accuse them as 
‘co-conspirators’.  This is a very, very slippery slope UBNT has just tried to 
push everyone using Elevate down.

Thank you,
Ben Royer, Operations Manager
Royell Communications, Inc.


From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 11:52 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

So yeah they are talking about the extra Tx power.  They're also claiming 
copyright, DMCA, RICO, CFA, and software licenses violations.  
They also claim mail and wire fraud related to marketing the hacked firmware.

In a nutshell, they refer to Blip and Winncomm as "co-conspirators" because 
they helped promote and distribute Elevate.



On 8/10/2018 12:13 PM, Doug Hass wrote:

  For those of you who want to see it, the complaint from the court case is 
attached.

  On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:10 AM Mathew Howard  wrote:

The thing I'm wondering about here, is what are they suing the WISP for 
(yes, I'm too lazy to go find the documents and read them)? 


On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:57 AM Lewis Bergman  
wrote:

  My statement still stands. 


  On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 10:10 AM Faisal Imtiaz  
wrote:

Love the armchair discussion, with everyone shooting from the hip, 
without actually reading the article...




Ubiquiti sued Illinois-based Cambium on Tuesday, claiming the company 
is selling firmware that changes the existing firmware on Ubiquiti's wireless 
equipment so it exceeds Ubiquiti's transmission thresholds, making it no longer 
compliant with the Federal Communications Commission's rules.
=


No they are not suing for IP !, they cannot !

They are making an interesting case.

I can also understand why they might be compelled to make such a case ! 
( makes a for a very interesting liability responsibility ! )



Regards.


Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

So yeah they are talking about the extra Tx power.  They're also 
claiming copyright, DMCA, RICO, CFA, and software licenses violations.
They also claim mail and wire fraud related to marketing the hacked 
firmware.


In a nutshell, they refer to Blip and Winncomm as "co-conspirators" 
because they helped promote and distribute Elevate.



On 8/10/2018 12:13 PM, Doug Hass wrote:
For those of you who want to see it, the complaint from the court case 
is attached.


On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:10 AM Mathew Howard > wrote:


The thing I'm wondering about here, is what are they suing the
WISP for (yes, I'm too lazy to go find the documents and read them)?

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:57 AM Lewis Bergman
mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:

My statement still stands.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 10:10 AM Faisal Imtiaz
mailto:fai...@snappytelecom.net>>
wrote:

Love the armchair discussion, with everyone shooting from
the hip, without actually reading the article...


Ubiquiti sued Illinois-based Cambium on Tuesday, claiming
the company is selling firmware that changes the existing
firmware on Ubiquiti's wireless equipment so it exceeds
Ubiquiti's transmission thresholds, making it no longer
compliant with the Federal Communications Commission's rules.
=

No they are not suing for IP !, they cannot !
They are making an interesting case.
I can also understand why they might be compelled to make
such a case ! ( makes a for a very interesting liability
responsibility ! )


Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email:
supp...@snappytelecom.net

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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

https://www.fcc.gov/news-events/blog/2015/11/12/clearing-air-wi-fi-software-updates
 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Mike Hammett"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 9:31:29 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 


https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751 



Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks. 


https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware
 


I'd like to see more of the claims. 


They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium. 
They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP.. 


They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





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Re: [AFMUG] OT Lent violation

Sorry, already a devotee to Reverend Bob

On 8/10/18 9:11 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

The only solution "Believe in Steve"

On Thu, Aug 9, 2018, 5:55 PM Robert > wrote:

What is going on these days gives me real appreciation of what must
have
been going on in the 30's prior to WWII...   & how a supposedly
informed
populace can collectively have their heads up their own asses.   My own
included...

On 8/9/18 3:37 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com  wrote:
 > But I thought it too good not to share.
 > Quote from a columnist:
 > The bacillus of past stupidities lurks dormant but not dead in the
 > social soil everywhere, ready to infect fresh fanaticisms when
they come
 > along, as they invariably do.
 >
 >

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[AFMUG] Epmp puck disable

We have been deploying new sites without the pucks so it uses the internal
gps and still has front back sync. Has the software come along yet to
disable the puck on the sites where it's already installed?
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Lent violation

The only solution "Believe in Steve"

On Thu, Aug 9, 2018, 5:55 PM Robert  wrote:

> What is going on these days gives me real appreciation of what must have
> been going on in the 30's prior to WWII...   & how a supposedly informed
> populace can collectively have their heads up their own asses.   My own
> included...
>
> On 8/9/18 3:37 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> > But I thought it too good not to share.
> > Quote from a columnist:
> > The bacillus of past stupidities lurks dormant but not dead in the
> > social soil everywhere, ready to infect fresh fanaticisms when they come
> > along, as they invariably do.
> >
> >
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Would be a bitch if the fcc went after operators using elevate for non
compliance. But remember ubnt had the deal with fcc over locking down their
hardware way back because of all the bofh running illegal with the custom
loads. This could simply be a cya over the terms of that arrangement

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 10:16 AM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> The funny thing is, it's entirely possible that Ubiquiti sold some extra
> hardware because of Elevate. For example, in our case it took some pressure
> off to convert all our towers to ePMP as quickly, because any new CPE that
> we put out there would still be usable after we did eventually convert it
> (and we had already made the decision to switch all our 5ghz stuff over to
> ePMP quite awhile before Elevate was an option).
>
> The one thing that I can see being a legitimate concern, would be if
> Ubiquiti ended up getting in trouble with the FCC over the devices not
> being compliant after being converted.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:03 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> Elevate is just software. Ubiquiti already sold the hardware and never
>> asked any money for software.  So how is Ubiquiti damaged?  They're not
>> damaged any more than Dell is damaged if you delete Windows to install
>> Ubuntu.
>>
>> I'm also sure Cambium wouldn't have proceeded with Elevate if they
>> weren't pretty sure they could defend it legally.
>>
>> I think there's also a principle that your IP isn't really yours unless
>> you are making an effort to protect it.  So Ubiquiti might feel that they
>> have no choice but to try.
>>
>> I'm just sitting safely in my armchair and hypothesizing, and I have no
>> horse in that race.
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>> On 8/10/2018 10:54 AM, Jason McKemie wrote:
>>
>> I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner. The whole elevate thing was
>> asking for it.
>>
>> On Friday, August 10, 2018, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751
>>>
>>> Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware
>>>
>>> I'd like to see more of the claims.
>>>
>>> They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.
>>> They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..
>>>
>>> They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Brothers WISP 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

The thing I'm wondering about here, is what are they suing the WISP for
(yes, I'm too lazy to go find the documents and read them)?

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:57 AM Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> My statement still stands.
>
> On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 10:10 AM Faisal Imtiaz 
> wrote:
>
>> Love the armchair discussion, with everyone shooting from the hip,
>> without actually reading the article...
>>
>> 
>> Ubiquiti sued Illinois-based Cambium on Tuesday, claiming the company is
>> selling firmware that changes the existing firmware on Ubiquiti's wireless
>> equipment so it exceeds Ubiquiti's transmission thresholds, making it no
>> longer compliant with the Federal Communications Commission's rules.
>> =
>>
>> No they are not suing for IP !, they cannot !
>> They are making an interesting case.
>> I can also understand why they might be compelled to make such a case ! (
>> makes a for a very interesting liability responsibility ! )
>>
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> http://www.snappytelecom.net
>>
>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>>
>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>>
>> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

My statement still stands.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 10:10 AM Faisal Imtiaz 
wrote:

> Love the armchair discussion, with everyone shooting from the hip, without
> actually reading the article...
>
> 
> Ubiquiti sued Illinois-based Cambium on Tuesday, claiming the company is
> selling firmware that changes the existing firmware on Ubiquiti's wireless
> equipment so it exceeds Ubiquiti's transmission thresholds, making it no
> longer compliant with the Federal Communications Commission's rules.
> =
>
> No they are not suing for IP !, they cannot !
> They are making an interesting case.
> I can also understand why they might be compelled to make such a case ! (
> makes a for a very interesting liability responsibility ! )
>
>
> Regards.
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net
>
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

2018-08-10 Thread Dave

Thats where I see the issue is non-compliant hardware raising a brow.

On 08/10/2018 10:15 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
The funny thing is, it's entirely possible that Ubiquiti sold some
extra hardware because of Elevate. For example, in our case it took
some pressure off to convert all our towers to ePMP as quickly,
because any new CPE that we put out there would still be usable after
we did eventually convert it (and we had already made the decision to
switch all our 5ghz stuff over to ePMP quite awhile before Elevate was
an option).

The one thing that I can see being a legitimate concern, would be if
Ubiquiti ended up getting in trouble with the FCC over the devices not
being compliant after being converted.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:03 AM Adam Moffett > wrote:

Elevate is just software. Ubiquiti already sold the hardware and
never asked any money for software. So how is Ubiquiti damaged?
They're not damaged any more than Dell is damaged if you delete
Windows to install Ubuntu.

I'm also sure Cambium wouldn't have proceeded with Elevate if they
weren't pretty sure they could defend it legally.

I think there's also a principle that your IP isn't really yours
unless you are making an effort to protect it. So Ubiquiti might
feel that they have no choice but to try.

I'm just sitting safely in my armchair and hypothesizing, and I
have no horse in that race.

-Adam

On 8/10/2018 10:54 AM, Jason McKemie wrote:

I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner. The whole elevate thing
was asking for it.

On Friday, August 10, 2018, Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751

Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.

https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware

I'd like to see more of the claims.

They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.
They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..

They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

2018-08-10 Thread Tim Cailloux

If they are stamped records that have been filed with the court, then
they're generally a matter of public record.

Even the Muller crew forgot to ask for confidentiality on a filing and it
got out into the public record.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 11:13 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I have all of the court documents, but I don't know if I can distribute
> them.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Faisal Imtiaz" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 10:09:16 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium
>
> Love the armchair discussion, with everyone shooting from the hip, without
> actually reading the article...
>
> 
> Ubiquiti sued Illinois-based Cambium on Tuesday, claiming the company is
> selling firmware that changes the existing firmware on Ubiquiti's wireless
> equipment so it exceeds Ubiquiti's transmission thresholds, making it no
> longer compliant with the Federal Communications Commission's rules.
> =
>
> No they are not suing for IP !, they cannot !
> They are making an interesting case.
> I can also understand why they might be compelled to make such a case ! (
> makes a for a very interesting liability responsibility ! )
>
>
> Regards.
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> http://www.snappytelecom.net
>
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

The funny thing is, it's entirely possible that Ubiquiti sold some extra
hardware because of Elevate. For example, in our case it took some pressure
off to convert all our towers to ePMP as quickly, because any new CPE that
we put out there would still be usable after we did eventually convert it
(and we had already made the decision to switch all our 5ghz stuff over to
ePMP quite awhile before Elevate was an option).

The one thing that I can see being a legitimate concern, would be if
Ubiquiti ended up getting in trouble with the FCC over the devices not
being compliant after being converted.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 10:03 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Elevate is just software. Ubiquiti already sold the hardware and never
> asked any money for software.  So how is Ubiquiti damaged?  They're not
> damaged any more than Dell is damaged if you delete Windows to install
> Ubuntu.
>
> I'm also sure Cambium wouldn't have proceeded with Elevate if they weren't
> pretty sure they could defend it legally.
>
> I think there's also a principle that your IP isn't really yours unless
> you are making an effort to protect it.  So Ubiquiti might feel that they
> have no choice but to try.
>
> I'm just sitting safely in my armchair and hypothesizing, and I have no
> horse in that race.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> On 8/10/2018 10:54 AM, Jason McKemie wrote:
>
> I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner. The whole elevate thing was
> asking for it.
>
> On Friday, August 10, 2018, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751
>>
>> Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.
>>
>>
>> https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware
>>
>> I'd like to see more of the claims.
>>
>> They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.
>> They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..
>>
>> They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

2018-08-10 Thread Dave


Its all over Law 360


On 08/10/2018 10:12 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
I have all of the court documents, but I don't know if I can 
distribute them.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Faisal Imtiaz" 
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
*Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2018 10:09:16 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Love the armchair discussion, with everyone shooting from the hip, 
without actually reading the article...



Ubiquiti sued Illinois-based Cambium on Tuesday, claiming the company 
is selling firmware that changes the existing firmware on Ubiquiti's 
wireless equipment so it exceeds Ubiquiti's transmission thresholds, 
making it no longer compliant with the Federal Communications 
Commission's rules.

=

No they are not suing for IP !, they cannot !
They are making an interesting case.
I can also understand why they might be compelled to make such a case 
! ( makes a for a very interesting liability responsibility ! )



Regards.

Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
http://www.snappytelecom.net

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net


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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

I have all of the court documents, but I don't know if I can distribute them. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Faisal Imtiaz"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 10:09:16 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 



Love the armchair discussion, with everyone shooting from the hip, without 
actually reading the article... 



 

Ubiquiti sued Illinois-based Cambium on Tuesday, claiming the company is 
selling firmware that changes the existing firmware on Ubiquiti's wireless 
equipment so it exceeds Ubiquiti's transmission thresholds, making it no longer 
compliant with the Federal Communications Commission's rules. 
= 



No they are not suing for IP !, they cannot ! 

They are making an interesting case. 

I can also understand why they might be compelled to make such a case ! ( makes 
a for a very interesting liability responsibility ! ) 





Regards. 



Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 


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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

2018-08-10 Thread Robert Andrews

So much for being the winner by disruption... Yeah, you could see this
coming. Dear Robert has a lot of expenses... I just replaced a bunch
of legacy ubnt because of flat out chip failure. Old electronics that
fail not because of exposure to discharges or stuff like that. Just too
cheap run too hot...

On 08/10/2018 08:00 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
I imagine the reason it didn't happen sooner, is because of the fact
that it makes Ubiquiti look really bad (especially the part about suing
a WISP... ). Also, they were probably trying to come up with an argument
that would hold up.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:55 AM Jason McKemie
> wrote:

I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner. The whole elevate thing was
asking for it.

On Friday, August 10, 2018, Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751

Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.

https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware

I'd like to see more of the claims.

They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.
They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..

They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

2018-08-10 Thread Faisal Imtiaz

Love the armchair discussion, with everyone shooting from the hip, without 
actually reading the article... 

 
Ubiquiti sued Illinois-based Cambium on Tuesday, claiming the company is 
selling firmware that changes the existing firmware on Ubiquiti's wireless 
equipment so it exceeds Ubiquiti's transmission thresholds, making it no longer 
compliant with the Federal Communications Commission's rules. 
= 

No they are not suing for IP !, they cannot ! 
They are making an interesting case. 
I can also understand why they might be compelled to make such a case ! ( makes 
a for a very interesting liability responsibility ! ) 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
http://www.snappytelecom.net 

Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Elevate is just software. Ubiquiti already sold the hardware and never 
asked any money for software.  So how is Ubiquiti damaged? They're not 
damaged any more than Dell is damaged if you delete Windows to install 
Ubuntu.


I'm also sure Cambium wouldn't have proceeded with Elevate if they 
weren't pretty sure they could defend it legally.


I think there's also a principle that your IP isn't really yours unless 
you are making an effort to protect it.  So Ubiquiti might feel that 
they have no choice but to try.


I'm just sitting safely in my armchair and hypothesizing, and I have no 
horse in that race.


-Adam


On 8/10/2018 10:54 AM, Jason McKemie wrote:
I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner. The whole elevate thing was 
asking for it.


On Friday, August 10, 2018, Mike Hammett > wrote:


https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751


Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.


https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware



I'd like to see more of the claims.

They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.
They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..

They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 









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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

I imagine the reason it didn't happen sooner, is because of the fact that
it makes Ubiquiti look really bad (especially the part about suing a
WISP... ). Also, they were probably trying to come up with an argument that
would hold up.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:55 AM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner. The whole elevate thing was
> asking for it.
>
> On Friday, August 10, 2018, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751
>>
>> Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.
>>
>>
>> https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware
>>
>> I'd like to see more of the claims.
>>
>> They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.
>> They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..
>>
>> They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

2018-08-10 Thread Jason McKemie

I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner. The whole elevate thing was asking
for it.

On Friday, August 10, 2018, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751
>
> Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.
>
> https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-
> ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware
>
> I'd like to see more of the claims.
>
> They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.
> They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..
>
> They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

Ubiquiti will never win this in the long run. You start suing customers, 
customers leave you. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Lewis Bergman"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2018 9:39:19 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium 


I remember sitting next to Beehive Chuck in Vegas one year and firmly asking if 
Cambium would indemnify WISP's buying their gear from any claims having to do 
with their gear. This is why. 


On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:32 AM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751 



Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks. 


https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware
 


I'd like to see more of the claims. 


They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium. 
They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP.. 


They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium

I remember sitting next to Beehive Chuck in Vegas one year and firmly
asking if Cambium would indemnify WISP's buying their gear from any claims
having to do with their gear. This is why.

On Fri, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:32 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp/posts/1660546944070751
>
> Ubiquiti Networks, Inc. sues Cambium Networks.
>
>
> https://www.law360.com/articles/1071813/wireless-co-ubiquiti-says-rival-sells-hacking-firmware
>
> I'd like to see more of the claims.
>
> They've also sued Sakid Ahmed and Dmitry Moiseev of Cambium.
> They've sued WINNCOM TECHNOLOGIES, CORP..
>
> They've sued BLIP Networks, a WISP in southern Illinois.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
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[AFMUG] Ubiquiti Sues Cambium