Re: [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out

[fiberrun]

Surprisingly bad BGP results from the CCR2004
https://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?f=3=161044

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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Carl Peterson]

Ya'll are a bunch of pigs.
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[James Howard]

Yeah.  what’s wrong with those guys?

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 1:59 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

degenerates I tell ya

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 1:38 PM James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:
It was like were on skis.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On 
Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 1:36 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Boy, that went downhill fast...

From: ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 12:33 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

You gotta get them young, before they turn...

From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 12:28 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability


Oink Oink?  I thought we turned sheep into pigs around here.
On 5/11/2020 2:11 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
B B...

From: James Howard
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:57 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Chuck never said she……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

it really is the right thing to do. she is going through a traumatic experience 
and being uncivil is downright rude

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
wrote:
Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...

From: Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/

Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil cases 
where there is lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.
On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an un-provable 
claim?  What does that even accomplish?


On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't due to 
risk, ie lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other countries 
do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put much more of the 
burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays legal bills. So you 
don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with very high certainty that 
you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the company's lawyers when you lose.

This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing" and slap 
suits.


On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:
And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing it……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and every 
other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family into oblivion


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:
In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.  He 
was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume that 
he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he was the 
one that brought it to that plant and spread it?



From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was who 
they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the 
union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and 
Commercial Workers Union.

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Steve Jones]

degenerates I tell ya

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 1:38 PM James Howard  wrote:

> It was like were on skis.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 1:36 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> Boy, that went downhill fast...
>
>
>
> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 12:33 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> You gotta get them young, before they turn...
>
>
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 12:28 PM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> Oink Oink?  I thought we turned sheep into pigs around here.
>
> On 5/11/2020 2:11 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> B B...
>
>
>
> *From:* James Howard
>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 11:57 AM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> Chuck never said she……
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 10:34 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> it really is the right thing to do. she is going through a traumatic
> experience and being uncivil is downright rude
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM  wrote:
>
> Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
>
> https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/
>
>
>
> Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil
> cases where there is lack of evidence.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.
>
> On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an
> un-provable claim?  What does that even accomplish?
>
>
>
> On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't due
> to risk, ie lack of evidence.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other
> countries do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put
> much more of the burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays
> legal bills. So you don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with
> very high certainty that you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the
> company's lawyers when you lose.
>
> This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing" and
> slap suits.
>
>
>
> On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:
>
> And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing
> it……
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and
> every other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family
> into oblivion
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard  wrote:
>
> In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.
> He was the union Chief Steward…….
>
>
>
> Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume
> that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he
> was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was
> who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl
> the union did a pretty crappy job.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>
>
>
> Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and
> Commercial Workers Union.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> 

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[James Howard]

It was like were on skis.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 1:36 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Boy, that went downhill fast...

From: ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 12:33 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

You gotta get them young, before they turn...

From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 12:28 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability


Oink Oink?  I thought we turned sheep into pigs around here.
On 5/11/2020 2:11 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
B B...

From: James Howard
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:57 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Chuck never said she……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

it really is the right thing to do. she is going through a traumatic experience 
and being uncivil is downright rude

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
wrote:
Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...

From: Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/

Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil cases 
where there is lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.
On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an un-provable 
claim?  What does that even accomplish?


On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't due to 
risk, ie lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other countries 
do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put much more of the 
burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays legal bills. So you 
don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with very high certainty that 
you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the company's lawyers when you lose.

This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing" and slap 
suits.


On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:
And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing it……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and every 
other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family into oblivion


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:
In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.  He 
was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume that 
he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he was the 
one that brought it to that plant and spread it?



From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was who 
they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the 
union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and 
Commercial Workers Union.



From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[James Howard]

And don’t forget to wear a mask…..

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 1:33 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

You gotta get them young, before they turn...

From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 12:28 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability


Oink Oink?  I thought we turned sheep into pigs around here.
On 5/11/2020 2:11 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
B B...

From: James Howard
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:57 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Chuck never said she……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

it really is the right thing to do. she is going through a traumatic experience 
and being uncivil is downright rude

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
wrote:
Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...

From: Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/

Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil cases 
where there is lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.
On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an un-provable 
claim?  What does that even accomplish?


On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't due to 
risk, ie lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other countries 
do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put much more of the 
burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays legal bills. So you 
don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with very high certainty that 
you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the company's lawyers when you lose.

This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing" and slap 
suits.


On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:
And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing it……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and every 
other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family into oblivion


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:
In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.  He 
was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume that 
he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he was the 
one that brought it to that plant and spread it?



From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was who 
they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the 
union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and 
Commercial Workers Union.



From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.


https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit



On May 10, 

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[chuck]

Boy, that went downhill fast...

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 12:33 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

You gotta get them young, before they turn...

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 12:28 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Oink Oink?  I thought we turned sheep into pigs around here.


On 5/11/2020 2:11 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  B B...

  From: James Howard 
  Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:57 AM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

  Chuck never said she……

   

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
  Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:34 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

   

  it really is the right thing to do. she is going through a traumatic 
experience and being uncivil is downright rude

   

  On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM  wrote:

Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...

 

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 


https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/

 

Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil 
cases where there is lack of evidence.

 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

  That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.

  On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett  
wrote:

  In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an 
un-provable claim?  What does that even accomplish?

   

  On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and 
can't due to risk, ie lack of evidence.


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett  
wrote:

  This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how 
other countries do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put 
much more of the burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays 
legal bills. So you don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with very 
high certainty that you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the company's lawyers 
when you lose.

  This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance 
chasing" and slap suits.

   

  On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:

And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them 
into doing it……

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve 
Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the 
company, and every other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy 
family into oblivion

 

 

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard 
 wrote:

  In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the 
fellow who died.  He was the union Chief Steward……. 

   

  Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just 
seems to assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere 
else and he was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it? 

   

   

   

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark 
Radabaugh
  Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

   

  Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after 
all that was who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   
Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.

   

  Mark

   

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[chuck]

You gotta get them young, before they turn...

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 12:28 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Oink Oink?  I thought we turned sheep into pigs around here.


On 5/11/2020 2:11 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  B B...

  From: James Howard 
  Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:57 AM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

  Chuck never said she……

   

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
  Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:34 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

   

  it really is the right thing to do. she is going through a traumatic 
experience and being uncivil is downright rude

   

  On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM  wrote:

Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...

 

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 


https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/

 

Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil 
cases where there is lack of evidence.

 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

  That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.

  On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett  
wrote:

  In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an 
un-provable claim?  What does that even accomplish?

   

  On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and 
can't due to risk, ie lack of evidence.


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett  
wrote:

  This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how 
other countries do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put 
much more of the burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays 
legal bills. So you don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with very 
high certainty that you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the company's lawyers 
when you lose.

  This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance 
chasing" and slap suits.

   

  On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:

And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them 
into doing it……

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve 
Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the 
company, and every other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy 
family into oblivion

 

 

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard 
 wrote:

  In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the 
fellow who died.  He was the union Chief Steward……. 

   

  Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just 
seems to assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere 
else and he was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it? 

   

   

   

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark 
Radabaugh
  Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

   

  Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after 
all that was who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   
Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.

   

  Mark

   

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard 
 wrote:

 

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the 
United Food and Commercial Workers 

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Ken Hohhof]

“Thing” is not the appropriate gender neutral pronoun.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of James Howard
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 1:22 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

Just gotta be careful about assuming things…..

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com 
 
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 1:12 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

B B...

 

From: James Howard 

Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:57 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

Chuck never said she……

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

it really is the right thing to do. she is going through a traumatic experience 
and being uncivil is downright rude

 

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...

 

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/

 

Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil cases 
where there is lack of evidence.

 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.

On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an un-provable 
claim?  What does that even accomplish?

 

On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't due to 
risk, ie lack of evidence.


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other countries 
do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put much more of the 
burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays legal bills. So you 
don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with very high certainty that 
you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the company's lawyers when you lose.

This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing" and slap 
suits.

 

On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:

And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing it……

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and every 
other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family into oblivion

 

 

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net> > wrote:

In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.  He 
was the union Chief Steward……. 

 

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume that 
he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he was the 
one that brought it to that plant and spread it? 

 

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was who 
they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the 
union did a pretty crappy job.

 

Mark

 

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net> > wrote:

 

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and 
Commercial Workers Union.

 

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

And so it begins. 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Bill Prince]

  
  
https://statelaws.findlaw.com/california-law/california-involuntary-manslaughter-laws.html


bp



On 5/11/2020 11:09 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  I would presume California has something similar to 2nd
and 3rd degree murder.  I think Sirhan Sirhan got 3rd degree
murder in California.  
  

   
  
From: Adam
Moffett 
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:51 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
  

 
  
  
This isn't a universal thing.  In Bill's state, murder
  requires "Malice aforethought"
 
On 5/11/2020 12:42 PM, Steve
  Jones wrote:


  no it doesnt
   
  
On Mon, May 11, 2020
  at 11:25 AM Bill Prince 
  wrote:


  
It is not justice in my opinion. I suppose you
  could make a case for manslaughter, but not
  murder. Murder requires premeditation.
 
bp



On 5/11/2020 8:05 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:


  So one burglar is charged with murdering the
second burglar who was shot by the homeowner? 
Am I following that correctly?
  That doesn't seem logical.
   
  On 5/11/2020 10:53 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
  
  
Im going to go out on a limb and
  say these plants probably do not use E
  Verify.  We have a case going where two kids
  broke in to rob a house, homeowner shot and
  killed one of them, the one that didnt die is
  charged with murder because a death occurred
  during the commission of a crime. So say these
  plant are committing the crime of hiring
  undocumented, and a death occurred, then maybe
  the company leadership could be held
  criminally liable. would be interesting to see
 

  On Mon, May
11, 2020 at 9:39 AM Ken Hohhof 
wrote:
  
  

  
Some people have
suggested the spread at meat packing
plants (which are disinfected daily
in the normal course of business)
may actually be occurring outside
the plants, due to things like
communal housing.  This is a claim
rife with social, economic and
racial prejudice.  Yet I think it
has merit.  Which probably means I’m
prejudiced.
 
I would like to
think the companies are implementing
major changes in changing areas,
bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances and
exits, etc, not just distancing on
the production lines.  But I would
also like to hear that the companies
or towns or states or somebody is
setting up places for infected
workers to isolate rather than just
go home and infect their families
and neighbors.  Or maybe setup some
kind of temporary housing to cut the
spread outside the plants.
 
 

  
From:
AF 
On Behalf Of James

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[James Howard]

Just gotta be careful about assuming things…..

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 1:12 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

B B...

From: James Howard
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:57 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Chuck never said she……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

it really is the right thing to do. she is going through a traumatic experience 
and being uncivil is downright rude

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
wrote:
Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...

From: Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/

Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil cases 
where there is lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.
On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an un-provable 
claim?  What does that even accomplish?


On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't due to 
risk, ie lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other countries 
do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put much more of the 
burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays legal bills. So you 
don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with very high certainty that 
you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the company's lawyers when you lose.

This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing" and slap 
suits.


On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:
And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing it……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and every 
other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family into oblivion


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:
In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.  He 
was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume that 
he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he was the 
one that brought it to that plant and spread it?



From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was who 
they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the 
union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and 
Commercial Workers Union.



From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.


https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit



On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Only for ugly people.
Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must wear 
a mask is one thing.  A business 

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[chuck]

B B...

From: James Howard 
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 11:57 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Chuck never said she……

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

it really is the right thing to do. she is going through a traumatic experience 
and being uncivil is downright rude

 

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM  wrote:

  Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...

   

  From: Josh Luthman 

  Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM

  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

   

  
https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/

   

  Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil 
cases where there is lack of evidence.

   

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

   

   

  On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.

On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

  Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.


   

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

   

   

  On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an 
un-provable claim?  What does that even accomplish?

 

On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

  But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't 
due to risk, ie lack of evidence.


   

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

   

   

  On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett  
wrote:

This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how 
other countries do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put 
much more of the burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays 
legal bills. So you don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with very 
high certainty that you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the company's lawyers 
when you lose.

This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance 
chasing" and slap suits.

 

On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:

  And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into 
doing it……

   

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
  Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

   

  that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the 
company, and every other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy 
family into oblivion

   

   

  On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard  
wrote:

In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow 
who died.  He was the union Chief Steward……. 

 

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems 
to assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else 
and he was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it? 

 

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark 
Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all 
that was who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   
Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.

 

Mark

 

  On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard 
 wrote:

   

  Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the 
United Food and Commercial Workers Union.

   

   

   

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken 
Hohhof
  Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

   

  A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

   

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
   

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[chuck]

I would presume California has something similar to 2nd and 3rd degree murder.  
I think Sirhan Sirhan got 3rd degree murder in California.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:51 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

This isn't a universal thing.  In Bill's state, murder requires "Malice 
aforethought"



On 5/11/2020 12:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

  no it doesnt

  On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 11:25 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

It is not justice in my opinion. I suppose you could make a case for 
manslaughter, but not murder. Murder requires premeditation.



bp


On 5/11/2020 8:05 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

  So one burglar is charged with murdering the second burglar who was shot 
by the homeowner?  Am I following that correctly?

  That doesn't seem logical.



  On 5/11/2020 10:53 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

Im going to go out on a limb and say these plants probably do not use E 
Verify.  We have a case going where two kids broke in to rob a house, homeowner 
shot and killed one of them, the one that didnt die is charged with murder 
because a death occurred during the commission of a crime. So say these plant 
are committing the crime of hiring undocumented, and a death occurred, then 
maybe the company leadership could be held criminally liable. would be 
interesting to see

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:39 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Some people have suggested the spread at meat packing plants (which 
are disinfected daily in the normal course of business) may actually be 
occurring outside the plants, due to things like communal housing.  This is a 
claim rife with social, economic and racial prejudice.  Yet I think it has 
merit.  Which probably means I’m prejudiced.



  I would like to think the companies are implementing major changes in 
changing areas, bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances and exits, etc, not just 
distancing on the production lines.  But I would also like to hear that the 
companies or towns or states or somebody is setting up places for infected 
workers to isolate rather than just go home and infect their families and 
neighbors.  Or maybe setup some kind of temporary housing to cut the spread 
outside the plants.





  From: AF  On Behalf Of James Howard
  Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability



  In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who 
died.  He was the union Chief Steward……. 



  Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to 
assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and 
he was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it? 







  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
  Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability



  Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that 
was who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl 
the union did a pretty crappy job.



  Mark



On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  
wrote:



Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United 
Food and Commercial Workers Union.







From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability



A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?



From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability



And so it begins. 






https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit







  On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  
wrote:

  Only for ugly people.

  Sent from my iPhone



On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  
wrote:

 

There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell 
everyone they must wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers 
wear a mask to enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to 
your example and is certainly the right of any business to put certain 
requirements on using their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If 
people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they are free to go somewhere 
else or stay home if no one will let them in their place of business.



On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before 
the Supreme Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be 
told that everyone is 

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[James Howard]

Chuck never said she……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 10:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

it really is the right thing to do. she is going through a traumatic experience 
and being uncivil is downright rude

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
wrote:
Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...

From: Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/

Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil cases 
where there is lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.
On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an un-provable 
claim?  What does that even accomplish?


On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't due to 
risk, ie lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other countries 
do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put much more of the 
burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays legal bills. So you 
don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with very high certainty that 
you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the company's lawyers when you lose.

This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing" and slap 
suits.


On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:
And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing it……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and every 
other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family into oblivion


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:
In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.  He 
was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume that 
he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he was the 
one that brought it to that plant and spread it?



From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was who 
they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the 
union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and 
Commercial Workers Union.



From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.


https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit



On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Only for ugly people.
Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must wear 
a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to enter their 
store is another.  The second actually correlates to your example and is 
certainly the right of any business to put certain requirements on using their 
facility (within lawful limits of course).  If people don’t want to abide by 
their requirements, they are free to go somewhere else or stay home if no one 
will let them in their place of business.

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Adam Moffett]

This isn't a universal thing.  In Bill's state, murder requires "Malice 
aforethought"



On 5/11/2020 12:42 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

no it doesnt

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 11:25 AM Bill Prince > wrote:


It is not justice in my opinion. I suppose you could make a case
for manslaughter, but not murder. Murder requires premeditation.


bp


On 5/11/2020 8:05 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:


So one burglar is charged with murdering the second burglar who
was shot by the homeowner?  Am I following that correctly?

That doesn't seem logical.


On 5/11/2020 10:53 AM, Steve Jones wrote:

Im going to go out on a limb and say these plants probably do
not use E Verify.  We have a case going where two kids broke in
to rob a house, homeowner shot and killed one of them, the one
that didnt die is charged with murder because a death occurred
during the commission of a crime. So say these plant are
committing the crime of hiring undocumented, and a death
occurred, then maybe the company leadership could be held
criminally liable. would be interesting to see

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:39 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

Some people have suggested the spread at meat packing plants
(which are disinfected daily in the normal course of
business) may actually be occurring outside the plants, due
to things like communal housing.  This is a claim rife with
social, economic and racial prejudice.  Yet I think it has
merit.  Which probably means I’m prejudiced.

I would like to think the companies are implementing major
changes in changing areas, bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances
and exits, etc, not just distancing on the production
lines.  But I would also like to hear that the companies or
towns or states or somebody is setting up places for
infected workers to isolate rather than just go home and
infect their families and neighbors.  Or maybe setup some
kind of temporary housing to cut the spread outside the plants.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *James Howard
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the
fellow who died.  He was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just
seems to assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if
he got it somewhere else and he was the one that brought it
to that plant and spread it?

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Mark Radabaugh
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after
all that was who they were paying dues to to protect them in
the workplace.   Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of
the United Food and Commercial Workers Union.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.


https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit

On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

Only for ugly people.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>>
wrote:



There are 2 separate issues. Having the
government tell everyone they must wear a mask
is one thing.  A business requiring customers
wear a mask to enter their store is another. 
The second actually correlates to your example
and is certainly the right of any business to
put certain requirements on using their 

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Steve Jones]

no it doesnt

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 11:25 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> It is not justice in my opinion. I suppose you could make a case for
> manslaughter, but not murder. Murder requires premeditation.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 5/11/2020 8:05 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> So one burglar is charged with murdering the second burglar who was shot
> by the homeowner?  Am I following that correctly?
>
> That doesn't seem logical.
>
>
> On 5/11/2020 10:53 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> Im going to go out on a limb and say these plants probably do not use E
> Verify.  We have a case going where two kids broke in to rob a house,
> homeowner shot and killed one of them, the one that didnt die is charged
> with murder because a death occurred during the commission of a crime. So
> say these plant are committing the crime of hiring undocumented, and a
> death occurred, then maybe the company leadership could be held criminally
> liable. would be interesting to see
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:39 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Some people have suggested the spread at meat packing plants (which are
>> disinfected daily in the normal course of business) may actually be
>> occurring outside the plants, due to things like communal housing.  This is
>> a claim rife with social, economic and racial prejudice.  Yet I think it
>> has merit.  Which probably means I’m prejudiced.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would like to think the companies are implementing major changes in
>> changing areas, bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances and exits, etc, not just
>> distancing on the production lines.  But I would also like to hear that the
>> companies or towns or states or somebody is setting up places for infected
>> workers to isolate rather than just go home and infect their families and
>> neighbors.  Or maybe setup some kind of temporary housing to cut the spread
>> outside the plants.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *James Howard
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.
>> He was the union Chief Steward…….
>>
>>
>>
>> Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume
>> that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he
>> was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was
>> who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl
>> the union did a pretty crappy job.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food
>> and Commercial Workers Union.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> And so it begins.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> Only for ugly people.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they
>> must wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask
>> to enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to your
>> example and is certainly the right of any business to put certain
>> requirements on using their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If
>> people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they are free to go
>> somewhere else or stay home if no one will let them in their place of
>> business.
>>
>>
>>
>> On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the
>> Supreme Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be
>> told that everyone is required to wear a mask in public.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do
>> you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?
>>
>> --
>> AF 

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Bill Prince]

  
  
It is not justice in my opinion. I suppose you could make a case
  for manslaughter, but not murder. Murder requires premeditation.


bp



On 5/11/2020 8:05 AM, Adam Moffett
  wrote:


  
  So one burglar is charged with murdering the second burglar who
was shot by the homeowner?  Am I following that correctly?
  That doesn't seem logical.
  
  
  On 5/11/2020 10:53 AM, Steve Jones
wrote:
  
  

Im going to go out on a limb and say these plants
  probably do not use E Verify.  We have a case going where two
  kids broke in to rob a house, homeowner shot and killed one of
  them, the one that didnt die is charged with murder because a
  death occurred during the commission of a crime. So say these
  plant are committing the crime of hiring undocumented, and a
  death occurred, then maybe the company leadership could be
  held criminally liable. would be interesting to see


  On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:39
AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
  
  

  
Some
people have suggested the spread at meat packing
plants (which are disinfected daily in the normal
course of business) may actually be occurring
outside the plants, due to things like communal
housing.  This is a claim rife with social, economic
and racial prejudice.  Yet I think it has merit. 
Which probably means I’m prejudiced.
 
I
would like to think the companies are implementing
major changes in changing areas, bathrooms,
lunchrooms, entrances and exits, etc, not just
distancing on the production lines.  But I would
also like to hear that the companies or towns or
states or somebody is setting up places for infected
workers to isolate rather than just go home and
infect their families and neighbors.  Or maybe setup
some kind of temporary housing to cut the spread
outside the plants.
 
 

  
From: AF 
On Behalf Of James Howard
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
  

 
In
case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the
fellow who died.  He was the union Chief Steward…….
  
 
Another
point that occurred to me is that everybody just
seems to assume that he contracted COVID at work. 
What if he got it somewhere else and he was the one
that brought it to that plant and spread it? 
 
 
 

  
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com]
On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
  

 
Seems like they employees should be
  suing the union, after all that was who they were
  paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.  
  Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.

   


  Mark
  
 

  
On May 10, 2020, at 11:17
  PM, James Howard 
  wrote:
  
   
  

  Benjamin
  was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter
  of the United Food and Commercial Workers
  Union.
   
   
   
  

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com]
  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Steve Jones]

its pretty simple. A death occurred as a result of the commission of the
crime. had the crime not been committed, the specific death would never
have occurred.  I like motivators not to do crime

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:34 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> The only way I could understand that is if one burglar coerced the other
> into the dangerous situation.  Otherwise I feel like they are each
> responsible for their own actions.   I don't understand how our courts
> could justify this policy.
>
>
> On 5/11/2020 11:15 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
> > Yep. In a lot of states if your criminal accomplice is killed in the
> > commission of a crime the surviving criminal can be charged with murder.
> >
> > Adam Moffett wrote:
> >> So one burglar is charged with murdering the second burglar who was
> >> shot by the homeowner?  Am I following that correctly?
> >>
> >> That doesn't seem logical.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5/11/2020 10:53 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
> >>> Im going to go out on a limb and say these plants probably do not
> >>> use E Verify.  We have a case going where two kids broke in to rob a
> >>> house, homeowner shot and killed one of them, the one that didnt die
> >>> is charged with murder because a death occurred during the
> >>> commission of a crime. So say these plant are committing the crime
> >>> of hiring undocumented, and a death occurred, then maybe the company
> >>> leadership could be held criminally liable. would be interesting to see
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:39 AM Ken Hohhof  >>> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Some people have suggested the spread at meat packing plants
> >>> (which are disinfected daily in the normal course of business) may
> >>> actually be occurring outside the plants, due to things like
> >>> communal housing.  This is a claim rife with social, economic and
> >>> racial prejudice.  Yet I think it has merit.  Which probably means
> >>> I’m prejudiced.
> >>>
> >>> I would like to think the companies are implementing major changes
> >>> in changing areas, bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances and exits,
> >>> etc, not just distancing on the production lines.  But I would
> >>> also like to hear that the companies or towns or states or
> >>> somebody is setting up places for infected workers to isolate
> >>> rather than just go home and infect their families and neighbors.
> >>> Or maybe setup some kind of temporary housing to cut the spread
> >>> outside the plants.
> >>>
> >>> *From:*AF  >>> > *On Behalf Of *James Howard
> >>> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
> >>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'  >>> >
> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> >>>
> >>> In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who
> >>> died.  He was the union Chief Steward…….
> >>>
> >>> Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to
> >>> assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it
> >>> somewhere else and he was the one that brought it to that plant
> >>> and spread it?
> >>>
> >>> *From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark
> >>> Radabaugh
> >>> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
> >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  >>> >
> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> >>>
> >>> Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all
> >>> that was who they were paying dues to to protect them in the
> >>> workplace.   Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.
> >>>
> >>> Mark
> >>>
> >>> On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  >>> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the
> >>> United Food and Commercial Workers Union.
> >>>
> >>> *From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken
> >>> Hohhof
> >>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
> >>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'  >>> >
> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> >>>
> >>> A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?
> >>>
> >>> *From:*AF  >>> > *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
> >>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
> >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  >>> >
> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> >>>
> >>> And so it begins.
> >>>
> >>>
> https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown
> >>> mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Only for ugly people.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>> On May 

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Steve Jones]

it really is the right thing to do. she is going through a traumatic
experience and being uncivil is downright rude

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM  wrote:

> Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
> https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/
>
> Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil
> cases where there is lack of evidence.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.
>> On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an
>>> un-provable claim?  What does that even accomplish?
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>
>>> But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't
>>> due to risk, ie lack of evidence.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other
 countries do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put
 much more of the burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays
 legal bills. So you don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with
 very high certainty that you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the
 company's lawyers when you lose.

 This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing"
 and slap suits.


 On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:

 And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing
 it……



 *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
 *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability



 that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and
 every other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family
 into oblivion





 On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard 
 wrote:

 In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who
 died.  He was the union Chief Steward…….



 Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to
 assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else
 and he was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it?







 *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark
 Radabaugh
 *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability



 Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was
 who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl
 the union did a pretty crappy job.



 Mark



 On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  wrote:



 Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food
 and Commercial Workers Union.







 *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
 *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
 *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability



 A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?



 *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
 *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability



 And so it begins.






 https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit







 On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

 Only for ugly people.

 Sent from my iPhone



 On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  wrote:

 

 There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they
 must wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask
 to enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to your
 example 

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Adam Moffett]

The only way I could understand that is if one burglar coerced the other 
into the dangerous situation.  Otherwise I feel like they are each 
responsible for their own actions.   I don't understand how our courts 
could justify this policy.



On 5/11/2020 11:15 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
Yep. In a lot of states if your criminal accomplice is killed in the 
commission of a crime the surviving criminal can be charged with murder.


Adam Moffett wrote:
So one burglar is charged with murdering the second burglar who was 
shot by the homeowner?  Am I following that correctly?


That doesn't seem logical.


On 5/11/2020 10:53 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
Im going to go out on a limb and say these plants probably do not 
use E Verify.  We have a case going where two kids broke in to rob a 
house, homeowner shot and killed one of them, the one that didnt die 
is charged with murder because a death occurred during the 
commission of a crime. So say these plant are committing the crime 
of hiring undocumented, and a death occurred, then maybe the company 
leadership could be held criminally liable. would be interesting to see


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:39 AM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


    Some people have suggested the spread at meat packing plants
    (which are disinfected daily in the normal course of business) may
    actually be occurring outside the plants, due to things like
    communal housing.  This is a claim rife with social, economic and
    racial prejudice.  Yet I think it has merit.  Which probably means
    I’m prejudiced.

    I would like to think the companies are implementing major changes
    in changing areas, bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances and exits,
    etc, not just distancing on the production lines.  But I would
    also like to hear that the companies or towns or states or
    somebody is setting up places for infected workers to isolate
    rather than just go home and infect their families and neighbors.
    Or maybe setup some kind of temporary housing to cut the spread
    outside the plants.

    *From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *James Howard
    *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
    *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

    In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who
    died.  He was the union Chief Steward…….

    Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to
    assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it
    somewhere else and he was the one that brought it to that plant
    and spread it?

    *From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark
    Radabaugh
    *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
    *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

    Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all
    that was who they were paying dues to to protect them in the
    workplace.   Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.

    Mark

    On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

    Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the
    United Food and Commercial Workers Union.

    *From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken
    Hohhof
    *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
    *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

    A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

    *From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
    *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
    *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

    And so it begins.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit 



    On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown
    mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

    Only for ugly people.

    Sent from my iPhone

    On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard
    mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

    

    There are 2 separate issues. Having the government
    tell everyone they must wear a mask is one thing.  A
    business requiring customers wear a mask to enter
    their store is another.  The second actually
    correlates to your example and is certainly the right
    of any business to put certain requirements on using
    their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If
    people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they
    are free to go somewhere else or stay home if no one
    will let them in their place of business.

    On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually
  

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[chuck]

Well, I at least try to be civil when performing sexual assaults...

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:06 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/


Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil cases 
where there is lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

  That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.


  On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

  In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an 
un-provable claim?  What does that even accomplish?



  On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't 
due to risk, ie lack of evidence.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett  
wrote:

  This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other 
countries do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put much 
more of the burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays legal 
bills. So you don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with very high 
certainty that you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the company's lawyers when 
you lose.

  This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance 
chasing" and slap suits.



  On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:

And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into 
doing it……



From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability



that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, 
and every other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family 
into oblivion





On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard  
wrote:

  In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow 
who died.  He was the union Chief Steward……. 



  Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to 
assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and 
he was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it? 







  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark 
Radabaugh
  Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability



  Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all 
that was who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   
Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.



  Mark



On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  
wrote:



Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the 
United Food and Commercial Workers Union.







From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken 
Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability



A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?



From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability



And so it begins. 






https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit







  On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  
wrote:

  Only for ugly people.

  Sent from my iPhone



On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard 
 wrote:

 

There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell 
everyone they must wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers 
wear a mask to enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to 
your example and is certainly the right of any business to put certain 
requirements on using their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If 
people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they are free to go somewhere 
else or stay home if no 

Re: [AFMUG] Looking for a tower building crew for a quote

[Christopher Tyler]

Craig House at cr...@diybroadband.com not sure how busy they are right now, but 
I'm sure he can at least get you a quote and tell you what their timeframe 
looks like.

-- 
Christopher Tyler
Senior Network Engineer
MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE

Total Highspeed Internet Solutions
1091 W. Kathryn Street
Nixa, MO 65714
(417) 851-1107 x. 9002
www.totalhighspeed.com

- Original Message -
> From: "Sam Lambie" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:17:01 AM
> Subject: [AFMUG] Looking for a tower building crew for a quote

> I am proposing to build an 80' say, a rohn 25-45 type tower for a school in 
> New
> Mexico and am looking for someone to quote and build it if the school says 
> yes.
> Is there anyone here that can help?
> 
> --
> --
> Sam Lambie
> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
> 575-758-7598 Office
> [ http://www.newmex.com/ | www.Taosnet.com ]
> 
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Jay Weekley]

Yep.  In a lot of states if your criminal accomplice is killed in the 
commission of a crime the surviving criminal can be charged with murder.


Adam Moffett wrote:
So one burglar is charged with murdering the second burglar who was 
shot by the homeowner?  Am I following that correctly?


That doesn't seem logical.


On 5/11/2020 10:53 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
Im going to go out on a limb and say these plants probably do not use 
E Verify.  We have a case going where two kids broke in to rob a 
house, homeowner shot and killed one of them, the one that didnt die 
is charged with murder because a death occurred during the commission 
of a crime. So say these plant are committing the crime of hiring 
undocumented, and a death occurred, then maybe the company leadership 
could be held criminally liable. would be interesting to see


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:39 AM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Some people have suggested the spread at meat packing plants
(which are disinfected daily in the normal course of business) may
actually be occurring outside the plants, due to things like
communal housing.  This is a claim rife with social, economic and
racial prejudice.  Yet I think it has merit.  Which probably means
I’m prejudiced.

I would like to think the companies are implementing major changes
in changing areas, bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances and exits,
etc, not just distancing on the production lines.  But I would
also like to hear that the companies or towns or states or
somebody is setting up places for infected workers to isolate
rather than just go home and infect their families and neighbors.
Or maybe setup some kind of temporary housing to cut the spread
outside the plants.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *James Howard
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who
died.  He was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to
assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it
somewhere else and he was the one that brought it to that plant
and spread it?

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark
Radabaugh
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all
that was who they were paying dues to to protect them in the
workplace.   Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the
United Food and Commercial Workers Union.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken
Hohhof
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit

On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

Only for ugly people.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:



There are 2 separate issues. Having the government
tell everyone they must wear a mask is one thing.  A
business requiring customers wear a mask to enter
their store is another.  The second actually
correlates to your example and is certainly the right
of any business to put certain requirements on using
their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If
people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they
are free to go somewhere else or stay home if no one
will let them in their place of business.

On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually
come before the Supreme Court to decide if it is a
violation of some “right” or other to be told that
everyone is required to wear a mask in public.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf
Of *Matt Hoppes
  

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Steve Jones]

yep
https://wgntv.com/news/homeowner-fatally-shoots-intruder-second-intruder-charged-with-murder/

the crime resulted in a death

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:05 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> So one burglar is charged with murdering the second burglar who was shot
> by the homeowner?  Am I following that correctly?
>
> That doesn't seem logical.
>
>
> On 5/11/2020 10:53 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> Im going to go out on a limb and say these plants probably do not use E
> Verify.  We have a case going where two kids broke in to rob a house,
> homeowner shot and killed one of them, the one that didnt die is charged
> with murder because a death occurred during the commission of a crime. So
> say these plant are committing the crime of hiring undocumented, and a
> death occurred, then maybe the company leadership could be held criminally
> liable. would be interesting to see
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:39 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Some people have suggested the spread at meat packing plants (which are
>> disinfected daily in the normal course of business) may actually be
>> occurring outside the plants, due to things like communal housing.  This is
>> a claim rife with social, economic and racial prejudice.  Yet I think it
>> has merit.  Which probably means I’m prejudiced.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would like to think the companies are implementing major changes in
>> changing areas, bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances and exits, etc, not just
>> distancing on the production lines.  But I would also like to hear that the
>> companies or towns or states or somebody is setting up places for infected
>> workers to isolate rather than just go home and infect their families and
>> neighbors.  Or maybe setup some kind of temporary housing to cut the spread
>> outside the plants.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *James Howard
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.
>> He was the union Chief Steward…….
>>
>>
>>
>> Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume
>> that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he
>> was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was
>> who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl
>> the union did a pretty crappy job.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food
>> and Commercial Workers Union.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> And so it begins.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> Only for ugly people.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they
>> must wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask
>> to enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to your
>> example and is certainly the right of any business to put certain
>> requirements on using their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If
>> people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they are free to go
>> somewhere else or stay home if no one will let them in their place of
>> business.
>>
>>
>>
>> On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the
>> Supreme Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be
>> told that everyone is required to wear a mask in public.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do
>> you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Josh Luthman]

https://jsberrylaw.com/blog/the-difference-between-civil-sexual-assault-and-criminal-sexual-assault/

Think it can be both, but there are plenty of examples of certainly civil
cases where there is lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:42 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.
> On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an
>> un-provable claim?  What does that even accomplish?
>>
>>
>> On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't due
>> to risk, ie lack of evidence.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other
>>> countries do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put
>>> much more of the burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays
>>> legal bills. So you don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with
>>> very high certainty that you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the
>>> company's lawyers when you lose.
>>>
>>> This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing"
>>> and slap suits.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:
>>>
>>> And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing
>>> it……
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and
>>> every other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family
>>> into oblivion
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard  wrote:
>>>
>>> In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who
>>> died.  He was the union Chief Steward…….
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume
>>> that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he
>>> was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark
>>> Radabaugh
>>> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was
>>> who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl
>>> the union did a pretty crappy job.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food
>>> and Commercial Workers Union.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And so it begins.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>>
>>> Only for ugly people.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they
>>> must wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask
>>> to enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to your
>>> example and is certainly the right of any business to put certain
>>> requirements on using their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If
>>> people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they are free to go
>>> somewhere else or stay home if no one will let them in their place of
>>> business.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the
>>> Supreme Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be
>>> told that everyone is required to wear a mask in public.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF 

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Adam Moffett]

So one burglar is charged with murdering the second burglar who was shot 
by the homeowner?  Am I following that correctly?


That doesn't seem logical.


On 5/11/2020 10:53 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
Im going to go out on a limb and say these plants probably do not use 
E Verify.  We have a case going where two kids broke in to rob a 
house, homeowner shot and killed one of them, the one that didnt die 
is charged with murder because a death occurred during the commission 
of a crime. So say these plant are committing the crime of hiring 
undocumented, and a death occurred, then maybe the company leadership 
could be held criminally liable. would be interesting to see


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:39 AM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Some people have suggested the spread at meat packing plants
(which are disinfected daily in the normal course of business) may
actually be occurring outside the plants, due to things like
communal housing.  This is a claim rife with social, economic and
racial prejudice.  Yet I think it has merit.  Which probably means
I’m prejudiced.

I would like to think the companies are implementing major changes
in changing areas, bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances and exits,
etc, not just distancing on the production lines.  But I would
also like to hear that the companies or towns or states or
somebody is setting up places for infected workers to isolate
rather than just go home and infect their families and neighbors. 
Or maybe setup some kind of temporary housing to cut the spread
outside the plants.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *James Howard
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who
died.  He was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to
assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it
somewhere else and he was the one that brought it to that plant
and spread it?

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark
Radabaugh
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all
that was who they were paying dues to to protect them in the
workplace.   Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the
United Food and Commercial Workers Union.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken
Hohhof
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.


https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit

On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

Only for ugly people.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:



There are 2 separate issues. Having the government
tell everyone they must wear a mask is one thing.  A
business requiring customers wear a mask to enter
their store is another.  The second actually
correlates to your example and is certainly the right
of any business to put certain requirements on using
their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If
people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they
are free to go somewhere else or stay home if no one
will let them in their place of business.

On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually
come before the Supreme Court to decide if it is a
violation of some “right” or other to be told that
everyone is required to wear a mask in public.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf
Of *Matt Hoppes
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>; Steve
  

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Regardless of how the infection got into the plant, someone had
  to have brought it in in the first place. It would then be
  necessary to trace it backward to find out who, and how that
  person got it.
The close proximity of people increases the likelihood of
  spreading the infection. However, people of low means probably
  have less contact with people who travel extensively. The question
  in my mind is if a worker brings it in from outside, then where
  did they get it in the first place? IOW, just because you live in
  tight quarters, does not make you a risk so much as making more
  likely that one in your midst is going to give it to everyone you
  live with.


bp



On 5/11/2020 7:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
Some
people have suggested the spread at meat packing plants
(which are disinfected daily in the normal course of
business) may actually be occurring outside the plants, due
to things like communal housing.  This is a claim rife with
social, economic and racial prejudice.  Yet I think it has
merit.  Which probably means I’m prejudiced.
 
I
would like to think the companies are implementing major
changes in changing areas, bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances
and exits, etc, not just distancing on the production
lines.  But I would also like to hear that the companies or
towns or states or somebody is setting up places for
infected workers to isolate rather than just go home and
infect their families and neighbors.  Or maybe setup some
kind of temporary housing to cut the spread outside the
plants.
 
 

  
From: AF
 On Behalf Of James
Howard
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
  

 
In
case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow
who died.  He was the union Chief Steward……. 
 
Another
point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to
assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it
somewhere else and he was the one that brought it to that
plant and spread it? 
 
 
 

  
From: AF
[mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com]
On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
  

 
Seems like they employees should be suing
  the union, after all that was who they were paying dues to to
  protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the union did a
  pretty crappy job.

   


  Mark
  
 

  
On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James
  Howard 
  wrote:
  
   
  

  Benjamin
  was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the
  United Food and Commercial Workers Union.
   
   
   
  

  From: AF
  [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com]
  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
  Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
  
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

  
   
  A
  70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?
   
  

  From: AF
  
  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
  Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

  
   
  
And so it begins. 
  
  
 
  
  
 
  
  

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Steve Jones]

Im going to go out on a limb and say these plants probably do not use E
Verify.  We have a case going where two kids broke in to rob a house,
homeowner shot and killed one of them, the one that didnt die is charged
with murder because a death occurred during the commission of a crime. So
say these plant are committing the crime of hiring undocumented, and a
death occurred, then maybe the company leadership could be held criminally
liable. would be interesting to see

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:39 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Some people have suggested the spread at meat packing plants (which are
> disinfected daily in the normal course of business) may actually be
> occurring outside the plants, due to things like communal housing.  This is
> a claim rife with social, economic and racial prejudice.  Yet I think it
> has merit.  Which probably means I’m prejudiced.
>
>
>
> I would like to think the companies are implementing major changes in
> changing areas, bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances and exits, etc, not just
> distancing on the production lines.  But I would also like to hear that the
> companies or towns or states or somebody is setting up places for infected
> workers to isolate rather than just go home and infect their families and
> neighbors.  Or maybe setup some kind of temporary housing to cut the spread
> outside the plants.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *James Howard
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.
> He was the union Chief Steward…….
>
>
>
> Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume
> that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he
> was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was
> who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl
> the union did a pretty crappy job.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>
>
>
> Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and
> Commercial Workers Union.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> And so it begins.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Only for ugly people.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>
> 
>
> There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must
> wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to
> enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to your
> example and is certainly the right of any business to put certain
> requirements on using their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If
> people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they are free to go
> somewhere else or stay home if no one will let them in their place of
> business.
>
>
>
> On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the
> Supreme Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be
> told that everyone is required to wear a mask in public.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do
> you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> *Total Control Panel*
>
> Login 
>
> To: ja...@litewire.net
> 
>
> From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com
>
> *You received this message because the domain afmug.com 
> is on your allow list.*
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> 

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Adam Moffett]

That's a criminal offense.  I'm talking about civil cases.

On 5/11/2020 10:28 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett > wrote:


In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an
un-provable claim?  What does that even accomplish?


On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and
can't due to risk, ie lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

This is an area where I think we would do well to consider
how other countries do this.  My understanding is that civil
cases in England put much more of the burden of proof on the
plaintiff, and that the loser pays legal bills. So you don't
sue a company unless you either (A) Know with very high
certainty that you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the
company's lawyers when you lose.

This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance
chasing" and slap suits.


On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:


And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them
into doing it……

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Steve Jones
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the
company, and every other person he infected turned around
and sued his greedy family into oblivion

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the
fellow who died.  He was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just
seems to assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What
if he got it somewhere else and he was the one that
brought it to that plant and spread it?

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Mark
Radabaugh
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union,
after all that was who they were paying dues to to
protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the union did
a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter
of the United Food and Commercial Workers Union.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On
Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of
*Matt Hoppes
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.


https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit

On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

Only for ugly people.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:



There are 2 separate issues. Having the
government tell everyone they must wear a
mask is one thing.  A business requiring
customers wear a mask to enter their store
is another.  The second actually correlates
to your example and is certainly the right
of any business to put certain requirements
on using their facility (within lawful
  

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Ken Hohhof]

Some people have suggested the spread at meat packing plants (which are 
disinfected daily in the normal course of business) may actually be occurring 
outside the plants, due to things like communal housing.  This is a claim rife 
with social, economic and racial prejudice.  Yet I think it has merit.  Which 
probably means I’m prejudiced.

 

I would like to think the companies are implementing major changes in changing 
areas, bathrooms, lunchrooms, entrances and exits, etc, not just distancing on 
the production lines.  But I would also like to hear that the companies or 
towns or states or somebody is setting up places for infected workers to 
isolate rather than just go home and infect their families and neighbors.  Or 
maybe setup some kind of temporary housing to cut the spread outside the plants.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of James Howard
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:08 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.  He 
was the union Chief Steward……. 

 

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume that 
he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he was the 
one that brought it to that plant and spread it? 

 

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was who 
they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the 
union did a pretty crappy job.

 

Mark

 

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net> > wrote:

 

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and 
Commercial Workers Union.

 

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

And so it begins. 

 

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit

 

 

 

On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

Only for ugly people.

Sent from my iPhone

 

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net> > wrote:

 

There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must wear 
a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to enter their 
store is another.  The second actually correlates to your example and is 
certainly the right of any business to put certain requirements on using their 
facility (within lawful limits of course).  If people don’t want to abide by 
their requirements, they are free to go somewhere else or stay home if no one 
will let them in their place of business.

 

On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the Supreme 
Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be told that 
everyone is required to wear a mask in public.

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> 
>; Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do 
you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Josh Luthman]

Rape.  It would accomplish a rapist being sentenced.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an
> un-provable claim?  What does that even accomplish?
>
>
> On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't due
> to risk, ie lack of evidence.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other
>> countries do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put
>> much more of the burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays
>> legal bills. So you don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with
>> very high certainty that you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the
>> company's lawyers when you lose.
>>
>> This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing"
>> and slap suits.
>>
>>
>> On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:
>>
>> And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing
>> it……
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and
>> every other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family
>> into oblivion
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard  wrote:
>>
>> In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.
>> He was the union Chief Steward…….
>>
>>
>>
>> Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume
>> that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he
>> was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
>> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was
>> who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl
>> the union did a pretty crappy job.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food
>> and Commercial Workers Union.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> And so it begins.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>> Only for ugly people.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they
>> must wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask
>> to enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to your
>> example and is certainly the right of any business to put certain
>> requirements on using their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If
>> people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they are free to go
>> somewhere else or stay home if no one will let them in their place of
>> business.
>>
>>
>>
>> On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the
>> Supreme Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be
>> told that everyone is required to wear a mask in public.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>>
>>
>> To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do
>> you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Total Control Panel*
>>
>> Login 
>>
>> To: ja...@litewire.net
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Adam Moffett]

In what circumstance would you have a moral imperative to file an 
un-provable claim?  What does that even accomplish?



On 5/11/2020 10:23 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't 
due to risk, ie lack of evidence.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett > wrote:


This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how
other countries do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in
England put much more of the burden of proof on the plaintiff, and
that the loser pays legal bills. So you don't sue a company unless
you either (A) Know with very high certainty that you'll win, or
(B) are willing to pay the company's lawyers when you lose.

This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance
chasing" and slap suits.


On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:


And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into
doing it……

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the
company, and every other person he infected turned around and
sued his greedy family into oblivion

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the
fellow who died.  He was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just
seems to assume that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he
got it somewhere else and he was the one that brought it to
that plant and spread it?

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after
all that was who they were paying dues to to protect them in
the workplace.   Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of
the United Food and Commercial Workers Union.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of
*Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.


https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit

On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

Only for ugly people.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>>
wrote:



There are 2 separate issues. Having the
government tell everyone they must wear a mask is
one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a
mask to enter their store is another.  The second
actually correlates to your example and is
certainly the right of any business to put
certain requirements on using their facility
(within lawful limits of course). If people don’t
want to abide by their requirements, they are
free to go somewhere else or stay home if no one
will let them in their place of business.

On the other hand, I assume that it will
eventually come before the Supreme Court to
decide if it is a violation of some “right” or
other to be told that everyone is required to
wear a mask in public.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On
Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm 

Re: [AFMUG] Looking for a tower building crew for a quote

[Lewis Bergman]

Cliff Barberarie
505-235-3793
cli...@advtwoway.com

His business is building towers, usually large ones. He is great and you
never have to babysit. No idea if he is cheap as I never checked his
pricing but I believe he is fair. I have known him for decades as an honest
and hard working contractor.


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:17 AM Sam Lambie  wrote:

> I am proposing to build an 80' say, a rohn 25-45 type tower for a school
> in New Mexico and am looking for someone to quote and build it if the
> school says yes. Is there anyone here that can help?
>
> --
> --
> *Sam Lambie*
> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
> 575-758-7598 Office
> www.Taosnet.com 
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Josh Luthman]

But also eliminate the cases that should (morally) be filed and can't due
to risk, ie lack of evidence.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other
> countries do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put
> much more of the burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser pays
> legal bills. So you don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know with
> very high certainty that you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the
> company's lawyers when you lose.
>
> This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing" and
> slap suits.
>
>
> On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:
>
> And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing
> it……
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and
> every other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family
> into oblivion
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard  wrote:
>
> In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.
> He was the union Chief Steward…….
>
>
>
> Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume
> that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he
> was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was
> who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl
> the union did a pretty crappy job.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>
>
>
> Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and
> Commercial Workers Union.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> And so it begins.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Only for ugly people.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>
> 
>
> There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must
> wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to
> enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to your
> example and is certainly the right of any business to put certain
> requirements on using their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If
> people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they are free to go
> somewhere else or stay home if no one will let them in their place of
> business.
>
>
>
> On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the
> Supreme Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be
> told that everyone is required to wear a mask in public.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do
> you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> *Total Control Panel*
>
> Login 
>
> To: ja...@litewire.net
> 
>
> From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com
>
> *You received this message because the domain afmug.com 
> is on your allow list.*
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> *Total Control Panel*
>
> Login 
>
> To: ja...@litewire.net
> 

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Adam Moffett]

This is an area where I think we would do well to consider how other 
countries do this.  My understanding is that civil cases in England put 
much more of the burden of proof on the plaintiff, and that the loser 
pays legal bills. So you don't sue a company unless you either (A) Know 
with very high certainty that you'll win, or (B) are willing to pay the 
company's lawyers when you lose.


This would seem to pretty much eliminate frivolous "ambulance chasing" 
and slap suits.



On 5/11/2020 10:15 AM, James Howard wrote:


And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into 
doing it……


*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and 
every other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy 
family into oblivion


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard > wrote:


In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who
died.  He was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to
assume that he contracted COVID at work. What if he got it
somewhere else and he was the one that brought it to that plant
and spread it?

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
*Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all
that was who they were paying dues to to protect them in the
workplace.   Apparentl the union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the
United Food and Commercial Workers Union.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken
Hohhof
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.


https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit

On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

Only for ugly people.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:



There are 2 separate issues. Having the government
tell everyone they must wear a mask is one thing.  A
business requiring customers wear a mask to enter
their store is another.  The second actually
correlates to your example and is certainly the right
of any business to put certain requirements on using
their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If
people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they
are free to go somewhere else or stay home if no one
will let them in their place of business.

On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually
come before the Supreme Court to decide if it is a
violation of some “right” or other to be told that
everyone is required to wear a mask in public.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf
Of *Matt Hoppes
*Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>; Steve
Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when
in public" do
you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




*Total Control Panel*



Login


To: ja...@litewire.net

[AFMUG] Looking for a tower building crew for a quote

[Sam Lambie]

I am proposing to build an 80' say, a rohn 25-45 type tower for a school in
New Mexico and am looking for someone to quote and build it if the school
says yes. Is there anyone here that can help?

-- 
-- 
*Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com 
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[James Howard]

And the ambulance chasing attorney that probably talked them into doing it……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 9:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and every 
other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family into oblivion


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:
In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.  He 
was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume that 
he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he was the 
one that brought it to that plant and spread it?



From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On 
Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was who 
they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the 
union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and 
Commercial Workers Union.



From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.


https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit



On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Only for ugly people.
Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must wear 
a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to enter their 
store is another.  The second actually correlates to your example and is 
certainly the right of any business to put certain requirements on using their 
facility (within lawful limits of course).  If people don’t want to abide by 
their requirements, they are free to go somewhere else or stay home if no one 
will let them in their place of business.

On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the Supreme 
Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be told that 
everyone is required to wear a mask in public.


From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>; 
Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do
you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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To: 
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From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com





You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on 
your allow list.



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From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com





You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on 
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You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on 
your allow list.



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Re: [AFMUG] CPI certified installer in TN

[Adam Moffett]

I did my CPI training through Coursera for I think $500.  It was either 
$499 or $599.


The CPI is personally responsible for the accuracy of data entered into 
the SAS, but no they don't have to be on site for the install.  It's 
sufficient to get data from the installer.  In the course, they 
suggested getting the installer to photo document what they've done.  
The worst consequence of incorrect data is getting your CPI revoked, but 
it seems more likely they'll want to work with you to improve things first.



On 5/10/2020 3:04 AM, Timothy Steele wrote:

Yes it's a brand new WISP owner only

he was asking if I can get CPI Trained but I'm not even in the states 
right now


from what I was reading on it sounds like the CPI needs to be on-site 
and supervise the install




On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 4:37 AM Steve Jones > wrote:


This sounds like a WISP that needs to be educated on what they are
doing. Somebody at that company really should do the
certification, contracted CPI input just begs for a disaster years
down the road. I cant see any CPI giving up their credentials to a
non employer for SAS management. I know I wouldn't.

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 8:37 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

They do know that a CPI doesn’t necessarily do installation
despite the title, right?

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Timothy Steele
*Sent:* Friday, May 8, 2020 8:53 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] CPI certified installer in TN

have a WISP asking me for a CPI Certified installer

Does anyone know of a contractor in the TN area?

-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Steve Jones]

that would be awesome if tracing showed that and then the company, and
every other person he infected turned around and sued his greedy family
into oblivion


On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 9:08 AM James Howard  wrote:

> In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.
> He was the union Chief Steward…….
>
>
>
> Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume
> that he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he
> was the one that brought it to that plant and spread it?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh
> *Sent:* Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was
> who they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl
> the union did a pretty crappy job.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>
>
>
> Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and
> Commercial Workers Union.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> And so it begins.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Only for ugly people.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>
> 
>
> There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must
> wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to
> enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to your
> example and is certainly the right of any business to put certain
> requirements on using their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If
> people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they are free to go
> somewhere else or stay home if no one will let them in their place of
> business.
>
>
>
> On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the
> Supreme Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be
> told that everyone is required to wear a mask in public.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do
> you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
>
> *Total Control Panel*
>
> Login 
>
> To: ja...@litewire.net
> 
>
> From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com
>
> *You received this message because the domain afmug.com 
> is on your allow list.*
>
>
>
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>
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> To: ja...@litewire.net
> 
>
> From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com
>
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> Login 
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> To: ja...@litewire.net
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> From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com
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> is on your allow list.*
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[James Howard]

In case people didn’t read the article, Benjamin is the fellow who died.  He 
was the union Chief Steward…….

Another point that occurred to me is that everybody just seems to assume that 
he contracted COVID at work.  What if he got it somewhere else and he was the 
one that brought it to that plant and spread it?



From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2020 6:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was who 
they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the 
union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark


On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and 
Commercial Workers Union.



From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

And so it begins.


https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit



On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Only for ugly people.
Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must wear 
a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to enter their 
store is another.  The second actually correlates to your example and is 
certainly the right of any business to put certain requirements on using their 
facility (within lawful limits of course).  If people don’t want to abide by 
their requirements, they are free to go somewhere else or stay home if no one 
will let them in their place of business.

On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the Supreme 
Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be told that 
everyone is required to wear a mask in public.


From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>; 
Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do
you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?

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From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com





You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on 
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You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your allow list.



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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Mark Radabaugh]

Seems like they employees should be suing the union, after all that was who 
they were paying dues to to protect them in the workplace.   Apparentl the 
union did a pretty crappy job.

Mark

> On May 10, 2020, at 11:17 PM, James Howard  wrote:
> 
> Benjamin was Chief Steward of Local 1776, a chapter of the United Food and 
> Commercial Workers Union.
>  
>  
>   <>
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 10:05 PM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>  
> A 70 year old was working at a slaughterhouse?
>  
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:50 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  >
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>  
> And so it begins. 
>  
>  
> https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit
>  
> 
>  
>  
>  
> 
> On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  > wrote:
> 
> Only for ugly people.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
>  
> 
> On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  > wrote:
> 
> 
> There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must 
> wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to 
> enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to your example 
> and is certainly the right of any business to put certain requirements on 
> using their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If people don’t want 
> to abide by their requirements, they are free to go somewhere else or stay 
> home if no one will let them in their place of business.
>  
> On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the Supreme 
> Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be told that 
> everyone is required to wear a mask in public.
>  
>  
> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] On 
> Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  >; Steve Jones  >
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>  
> To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do 
> you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 
> 
> Total Control Panel
> Login 
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> 
> From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com 
> You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your allow list.
>  
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[justsumname .]

That lawsuit is the kind of stuff that makes me say things  like:   "we are
too stupid to have a country".
I am dreading the court order which will come from that.
No one is responsible for themselves; everyone is responsible for everyone
else.

Many years ago I decided that the most politically correct way to live and
stay safe was to stay the hell away from 'everyone', especially the govt.
Fortunately, I have largely been able to do it that way.   But that kind of
issue has the potential to suck us all into the same black hole.



On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 10:50 PM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> And so it begins.
>
>
>
> https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit
>
>
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Only for ugly people.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>
> 
>
> There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must
> wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to
> enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to your
> example and is certainly the right of any business to put certain
> requirements on using their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If
> people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they are free to go
> somewhere else or stay home if no one will let them in their place of
> business.
>
>
>
> On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the
> Supreme Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be
> told that everyone is required to wear a mask in public.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do
> you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
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>
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> 
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