Re: [AFMUG] SNMP

[castarritt]

We've done stuff as ghetto as powering an old wrt54g through the alarm
contacts and monitoring its IP address to see when it comes up and goes
down.  These days all of our sites have either an Alpha or ICT UPS or DC
shelf that has alarm monitoring inputs.

On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 4:30 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> As long as you support SMTP AUTH, I think that should be sufficient.  If
> necessary, someone could always create a Gmail account for this purpose.
>
>
>
> Yes, there are some older devices that expect you to set them up as an MTA
> rather than MUA so they can send unauthenticated SMTP on port 25.  That
> sounds like a really bad plan to me unless you time travel back to maybe
> 1999.  I don’t want to be creating SPF and DKIM and DMARC records for a
> little contact monitoring box, and it sounds like a security nightmare.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Forrest Christian
> (List Account)
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 8, 2024 4:13 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
>
>
>
> Some devices can be configured to send an email if a contact closes, but
> the way this happens varies between devices.
>
>
>
> My problem with integrating this on the the sitemonitor platform has
> traditionally been that you need a rule system in order to determine when
> to send the email.  I.E. what threshold of voltage, and so on.   This is
> obviously easy in a on/off situation, but not so much in a voltage.   Plus
> you need additional rules so when the voltage is bouncing between 24.0 and
> 24.1 and you have the threshold set at 24.0 you don't get an email every
> time it flaps to 24.0.All of this was impossible to do on the older
> hardware just because of code space limitations.
>
>
>
> The Base 3 has the resources to do this, but the firmware has not yet been
> completed.  There is a rules engine about 3/4 built for the sitemonitor
> system, how long until it sees the light of day, I don't know at this
> point.   The email itself is somewhat easy but I also need to provide some
> sort of email server resources for those who don't have an email system
> which will accept email from random devices.
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 2:55 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Not following how you are going to use SNMP without a monitoring system.
>
> Packetflux Sitemonitor can turn a contact closure into a 1 or 0 OID that
> an SNMP monitoring system can check at regular intervals, mine mostly polls
> every 1 minute. But then you would typically have your NMS send an alert by
> email or text message.
>
> I tend to monitor analog parameters like voltage or current, then set trip
> points for the NMS to send an informative message. Like UPS input voltage
> at the Podunk site has been below the minimum value of 100 V for more than
> 2 minutes.
>
>  Original Message 
> From: "Chuck McCown via AF"
> Sent: 5/8/2024 2:41:36 PM
> To: "TJ Trout" , "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
> Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
>
> So how do Forrest’s products let you know of an issue?  Traps?
>
>
>
> \Would love to NOT have to have NMS just for this.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:35 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
>
>
>
> Packet flux can do it all too, the base unit can monitor two voltages and
> temp and a few contact closures, if you need more volt inputs or closures
> you add a expansion unit. No email that I'm aware of
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 8, 2024, 12:23?PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> No, we have fuse alarms, rectifier, inverter, and other comm equipment
> alarm contacts.  Circuit breaker alarms.  That is why historically I liked
> the netguardian product.  It eats everything.  Monitors DC voltages etc.
> Temps
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:13 PM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
>
>
>
> I think if your installed equipment all came from one vendor, there might
> be some way to do their proprietary monitoring solution.
>
> However, SNMP as flawed as it might be, is the only standard that is
> nearly universal (because some implementations are better than others).
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 5/8/2024 11:30 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> We are needing to add some monitoring of old fashioned alarm contacts in
> one of our sites.  In the past I used Netguardians.  Not sure what Forrest
> has.
>
>
>
> Is SNMP still the defacto NMS comm method or are there better more modern
> stuff out there we should be looking at?
>
>
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Chuck McCown
>
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503 Office
> 435-830-4306 Cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench.pro
> www.terabitnetworks.com
>
>
>
> --
>
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>
> --
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> 

Re: [AFMUG] DC power supplies in parallel

[castarritt]

The thing about a good DC site with gear like ICT-2U4 shelf is that you
don't need to talk someone through troubleshooting individual power
supplies because there are none to fail and cause a truck roll in the first
place, there is just the DC shelf and it's 12 load outputs that all read
out current draw and can be individually power cycled remotely.  Where we
need 24v, we just run a meanwell dc-dc converter off one of the ICT outputs
and then use it to power one of the inputs on a packetflux injector.

On Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 2:13 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I think it depends on a case by case basis.   I've kept everything as AC
> with Power supplies for each device simply because I will need to
> describe to someone over the phone, in a downpour, at night, how to
> troubleshoot a site, when their idea of small tools ends with a 4' Pipe
> wrench.  Saying 'is there a green light on power supply X' is easier
> than trying to track down DC Wires/fuses/breakers.  Just have them swap
> the bad Powersupply and that either fixed it or, didn't.  We also have a
> very good Power grid in our area, so we're not overly concerned with
> long runtimes.  Our average utility failure is <4 hours to restoration.
> And I have a pallet of brand new APC XL's that I paid $50 each for.  I
> can't build a DC plant for less than that. Let alone with all the power
> Monitoring the APC Gives me.
>
> If you have a flaky grid and need long runtimes, then DC is the way to
> go, no question.
>
> Another Network Engineer I work with prefers all DC Sites.  I've never
> been able to justify the cost/complexity of pure DC Setups. Especially
> when needing to do a mix of 24/48V, as is often present with older gear
> at most of our sites.
>
>
> On 4/26/2024 1:40 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
> > I have a bunch of various meanwell 48 vDC power supplies mostly  120
> > and 350 watt models with most loads being 45wattish and some 108wattish.
> >
> > One site im re-cabling has 1100w in PSUs taking a ton of space
> > providing for a total demand of around 440w. Seems overkill and only
> > accounts for the DC direct powered stuff, not the other 300w or so
> >
> > Whats the consensus on an AC powered site? individual PSUs for ever
> > equipment. Big PSU/rectifier for all?
> > Our battery capacity at this particular site is on the APC at the base
> > providing just AC to the top, we are not bringing the batteries up for
> > reasons and all electronics are up top.
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

[castarritt]

d in this email, please consult
> with an attorney.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 8, 2024 4:11 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation
> feature
>
>
>
> That's what my distributor has it listed for.
>
>  Original Message 
> From: "Tyson Burris"
> Sent: 2/8/2024 3:02:42 PM
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature
>
> I was told they are still talking about the final price.  Either way I can
> see the benefit here if you have to give up some of the AP features to work.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Tyson Burris*
> *President & CEO*
>
>
>
> Internet Communications Inc (ICI)
>
> 739 Commerce Dr. Franklin, IN 46131
>
>
>
> [image: Mobile mobile-icon]317-412-1540 (emergency/after-hours)
> [image: phone phone-icon]317-738-0320 (office)
> [image: Email email-icon]  t...@franklinisp.net
> [image: website website-icon]??www.surfici.net
>
>
>
>
>
> *Fixed Wireless Broadband - PtP/PtMP Solutions – Indoor/Oudoor Wifi - IP
> Cameras - Fiber – MDUs  *
>
>
>
> *Active Member To The Following**:*
>
>
>
> WISPA <http://www.wispa.org/>
>
> NBBC <http://www.nbbc.coop/>
>
>
>
> Confidentiality Notice:
>
>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
> If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
> dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly
> prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the
> sender immediately and delete this email from your system.
>
>
>
> No Binding Agreement:
>
>
>
> This email is not a binding agreement or contract of any kind, unless it
> specifically states otherwise and expressly refers to a duly authorized
> agreement signed by both parties. Any views or opinions presented in this
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> of any agreement or arrangement discussed in this email, please consult
> with an attorney.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 1, 2024 12:00 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation
> feature
>
>
>
> I think you know the answer, it's $2000 per AP. $2500 MSRP.
>
> I'd pay it if 3x and 4x modulations were suddenly 6x or 8x. But they're
> not.
>
>  Original Message 
> From: "Craig Schmaderer"
> Sent: 2/1/2024 10:40:30 AM
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature
>
> $2000???   Please tell me that is not per Access Point?I could handle
> maybe that for all of them.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 1, 2024 9:58 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation
> feature
>
>
>
> This sector has a lot of long links, subs clustered in the middle of the
> sector, and several Ubiquiti WISPs in the same direction.  So the uplink
> modulation is poorer than downlink.  The SMs have narrow beams but the AP
> sees 90 degrees.
>
>
>
> The other case where we get uplink problems is in 3 GHz when Verizon
> lights up CBRS on a celltower, but we can (mostly) solve that by matching
> LTE timing.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *castarritt
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 1, 2024 9:33 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation
> feature
>
>
>
> I haven't seen a 450M sector get bad uplink modulation rates without
> downlink getting trashed too unless it was caused by a misconfig on our end
> causing self interference.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 1, 2024 at 9:26?AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Has anyone else tried the interference cancellation feature in 22.2 FW?
> (Free 30 day trial but license key is $2000.)
>
>
>
> I tried it on what I thought was an ideal candidate sector, but my first
> impression is that it helps a little not a ton.  My uplink multiplexing
> gain was 1.0 so I figured I had nothing to lose.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature

[castarritt]

I haven't seen a 450M sector get bad uplink modulation rates without
downlink getting trashed too unless it was caused by a misconfig on our end
causing self interference.

On Thu, Feb 1, 2024 at 9:26 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Has anyone else tried the interference cancellation feature in 22.2 FW?
> (Free 30 day trial but license key is $2000.)
>
>
>
> I tried it on what I thought was an ideal candidate sector, but my first
> impression is that it helps a little not a ton.  My uplink multiplexing
> gain was 1.0 so I figured I had nothing to lose.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels

[castarritt]

Do you need dispersion compensation for 100GBASE-ZR4?

On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 8:03 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Well, and it would depend on which type of 100G. Some is 10x10, some is
> 25x4, and some is 100x1.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *dmmoff...@gmail.com
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Wednesday, January 24, 2024 7:53:21 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels
>
> 100 gig is going to have I believe 4 wavelengths.  This command shows you
> the level on each channel:
>
>
>
> show interfaces et31/1 transceiver dom
>
>
>
> I think if one channel isn’t connected you wouldn’t get 100G link, but
> you’d still have receive power.  Bends and such can impact one channel and
> not another.
>
>
>
> This is just a WAG.  Good luck, sir.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Zach Underwood
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 24, 2024 8:45 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels
>
>
>
>
> *TX Power*   2~6.5dBm
>
>
>
> I am struggling to get this 100gb link up. In the field this link is
> quoted at 31 miles. The rx levels are -22 and -20 on both sides but I
> can't get it to link. I take the same optics to the lab and add 20dbm of 
> attenuator
> to get almost the same rx levels as the field and it will link up.
>
> I have added error-correction encoding reed-solomon per the user guide for
> links over 40km.
>
> So far I have not found a way to change the TX levels in arista, the
> options are in the CLI but they dont seem to change the outcome. For me
> this is the first time dealing with 80km optics or 100gb optics over 10km.
>
> switch is Arista DCS-7060SX2-48YC6-R
>
>
>
> https://resource.fs.com/mall/doc/20230531114903y4ljxw.pdf
> https://www.fs.com/products/115818.html?attribute=29032=3462585
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 8:35 AM Colin Stanners 
> wrote:
>
> There should be. What does their datasheey indicate for tx power range?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 7:31 a.m. Zach Underwood 
> wrote:
>
> Yep labels identical but there is a difference in default power levels.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 8:13 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> Oh, meaning the variance between the two, otherwise identical models?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> [image: Image removed by sender.] [image:
> Image removed by sender.]
> [image:
> Image removed by sender.]
> [image:
> Image removed by sender.] 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> [image: Image removed by sender.] [image:
> Image removed by sender.]
> [image: Image
> removed by sender.] 
> The Brothers WISP 
> [image: Image removed by sender.]
> [image: Image removed by
> sender.]
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Zach Underwood" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, January 23, 2024 12:51:39 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] optical TX power levels
>
> I got 2x 100gb 80km optics from FS that run difficult default TX power
> levels one is 3.81dBm and the other 2.63dBm, the config on the arista
> devices hosting the optics is the same.
>
>
>
> Has anyone seen much difference between optic like this? My sample size is
> small due to the optices costing $4k each
>
>
>
> --
>
> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
>
> My website 
>
> advance-networking.com
>
>
> --
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>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
>
> My website 
>
> advance-networking.com
>
> --
> AF 

Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse

[castarritt]

The ICT shelves come in both +48v and -48v flavors.  Usually the positive
version has a P on the end of the model.  An ICT-2U4 would be negative, and
an ICT-2U4P is positive.  You can mix both -48 and +48 loads at one site,
but you need an isolated DC-DC converter such as a Meanwell RSD-500C-48.

On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 10:26 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> I know we have been though this many times and I thought I understood it.
>
> -48VDC is the Negative side being HOT, correct?
>
> It is BAD to try to mix -48VDC and 48VDC
>
> There is no such thing as a -48V battery.  A battery is a battery, correct?
>
> How about the ICT Platinum power supplies.  They show as 48VDC, can they
> be used on -48VDC equipment?
>
> I remember Check saying something about a way to test to see if a piece of
> equipment that is Neg 48VDC is truly grounded as Neg 48VDC.
>
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
>  Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Communications
> www.Myakka.com
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[castarritt]

The reason I fear not having LVD is that the load becomes the LVD and it
might not have any hysteresis.  If a 1kw Tarana cluster pulls 0A at 43.9V
and then 20A at 44V, we would have a problem.  That said, I would use a
managed LDM from ICT anyway, so I could easily set load shed voltages to
avoid this.

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 3:34 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> The worst case scenario is when the power comes back on after an extended
> outage.  So the batts are going to present a heavy load plus all your other
> loads.
> I always doubled what I needed to run the loads by themselves and made
> sure the current limiting would not exceed safe charging currents.
>
> If the batts went too low, the voltage may not come back to operational
> level until they have charged a bit.  If you have a LVD on the loads that
> will speed things up, assuming the LVD will reconnect, but it must have
> enough hysteresis because when the loads attach the voltage will drop again
> and if you don’t have enough hysteresis it will oscillate and probably do
> ungood things to the loads.
>
> That is why I quit using LVDs.
>
>
>
> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 4, 2024 2:27 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
>
> Let me see if I understand this. I get an AC/DC 48V power supply.  We have
> used DuraComm in the past.  I wire the power supply directly to the LFP
> battery pack and wire the power supply directly to the 48V equipment.  Does
> the LFP have logic in it to regulate the charging?
>
>
>
> My guess is my power supply has to be rated higher than my equipment
> demand by a few AMPs so it can charge batteries and run equipment.  Is
> there some way to limit charging AMPs on battery pack so it doesn't over
> load the power supply?
>
>
>
> --
>
> Best regards,
>
> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
>
>
> Myakka Communications
>
> www.Myakka.com
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Thursday, January 4, 2024, 3:57:48 PM, you wrote:
>
>
>
> I was talking about connecting the LFP pack straight to a current limiting
> power supply and not using a battery charger.
>
> On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 2:43 PM  wrote:
>
>> “the max current doesn't exceed the LFP pack's rated charge current”
>>
>> You don’t have to worry about that one.  The charger won’t draw more
>> current than what is being consumed to charge the batteries.  I’d argue you
>> should oversize the max current.  If the power supply can’t supply the
>> current the chargers are demanding then it’ll do whatever it’s over current
>> fault condition is….which might be current limiting, or shutting down and
>> waiting for you to power cycle.  Oversize it so you can supply the charger
>> whatever it wants and you aren’t at risk of over heating, tripping, or
>> other badness.
>>
>> PSU’s often get de-rated for temperature, and sometimes the max current
>> on the sticker is only for transient peak current rather than continuous
>> current.  Make it bigger so it meets all the demand on it and nothing bad
>> happens even in sub-optimal conditions.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *castarritt
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 04, 2024 11:28 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>>
>>
>>
>> I've also thought about trying just some basic Meanwell AC/DC supplies
>> with LFP packs instead of a fancy ICT or other charger.  As long as I am
>> using a power supply that will sag voltage instead of trip offline when max
>> current is reached, the max current doesn't exceed the LFP pack's rated
>> charge current, and I can set the supply's voltage to the appropriate
>> value, I don't see why I need anything more.  The LFP pack's BMS already
>> has LVD, and we aren't using fancy multi stage charge profiles with boost
>> voltage on lithium packs.  Am I missing something here?  So far, bossman
>> has preferred just playing it safe and paying for the ICT shelves we know
>> work, so I haven't got to try it yet.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 10:17 AM castarritt  wrote:
>>
>> We also use ICT and have been running them with both ISP Supplies and
>> Power Storage Solutions LFP packs without any problems.  The only downside
>> is that the ICT shelf can't read the state of charge or give your an
>> estimated runtime remaining with lithium batteries.  I understand they
>> won't have a super accurate reading on those parameters without
>> communicating with the BMS, 

Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[castarritt]

I've also thought about trying just some basic Meanwell AC/DC supplies with
LFP packs instead of a fancy ICT or other charger.  As long as I am using a
power supply that will sag voltage instead of trip offline when max current
is reached, the max current doesn't exceed the LFP pack's rated charge
current, and I can set the supply's voltage to the appropriate value, I
don't see why I need anything more.  The LFP pack's BMS already has LVD,
and we aren't using fancy multi stage charge profiles with boost voltage on
lithium packs.  Am I missing something here?  So far, bossman has
preferred just playing it safe and paying for the ICT shelves we know work,
so I haven't got to try it yet.

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 10:17 AM castarritt  wrote:

> We also use ICT and have been running them with both ISP Supplies and
> Power Storage Solutions LFP packs without any problems.  The only downside
> is that the ICT shelf can't read the state of charge or give your an
> estimated runtime remaining with lithium batteries.  I understand they
> won't have a super accurate reading on those parameters without
> communicating with the BMS, but I wish they could at least calculate AH in
> and out vs set AH capacity to give a rough estimate.
>
> On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 9:49 AM Gino A. Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>> We are having great success with signature solar units and ICT
>> rectifiers.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://aeronetpr.com> *Gino Villarini*
>> Founder / President
>> @GVillarini
>> 787.273.4143 |
>> <https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr>
>> <https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp>
>> <https://twitter.com/aeronetpr> <https://www.youtube.com/user/AeroNetPR>
>> <https://wa.me/17872734143> <https://wa.me/17872734144>
>> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>> <https://homefi.pr> <https://aeronetpr.com> <https://aeronetpr.com>
>> <https://aeronetpr.com>[image: AeroNet-dula-network-access.jpg]
>> <https://store.homefi.pr/>
>> <https://homefi.pr>
>>
>> *From: *AF  on behalf of Mark - Myakka
>> Technologies 
>> *Date: *Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 11:38 AM
>> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>>
>> I'm starting to get flashbacks for the last time I did this.  It wasn't a
>> pleasant experience.  Felt I was oversold un-needed over priced options.
>> Trying to be more careful this time.
>>
>> Looking at the LifePO4 stuff and finding a bunch of rack mount batteries,
>> but they all seem to be China made.  Can anyone recommend a brand they are
>> using.  Also, can't find any rack mount chargers to to charge these guys.
>> Has anyone here actually setup a LifePO4 plant.  I may have to stay with
>> the Lead Acid stuff, rather not be doing a DIY system or be on the bleeding
>> edge.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>>
>> Myakka Communications
>>
>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myakka.com%2F=05%7C02%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C3433113bdfe540761c1b08dc0d3b2785%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638399794931390821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=pA6vfvxRSGWsI7swrVsTbzp6IYiq62CJO0AcRRUAyiE%3D=0
>> <http://www.myakka.com/>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Wednesday, January 3, 2024, 8:02:33 PM, you wrote:
>>
>> PKvA> Something to think about is that LiFePO4 is good to 100% DOD,
>> whereas we
>> PKvA> should all be keeping lead-acids above 50% DOD if we want
>> lifespan.. So
>> PKvA> 460Ah lifepo4 = 920Ah lead-acid in my mind..
>>
>> PKvA> Peter Kranz
>> PKvA>
>> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unwiredltd.com%2F=05%7C02%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C3433113bdfe540761c1b08dc0d3b2785%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638399794931390821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=t9Hy5%2BztcKAjRibHx1pcXUM8vciPDMeGmf5JRA2%2BN3U%3D=0
>> <http://www.unwiredltd.com/>
>> PKvA> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
>> PKvA> Mobile: 510-207-
>> PKvA> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>>
>> PKvA> -Original Message-
>> PKvA> From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
>> PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 4:57 PM
>> PKvA> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Us

Re: [AFMUG] Odd routing issue

[castarritt]

I'm not sure what you are asking Steve.  I am forming multiple adjacencies
with multiple /30 networks on the same interface for ECMP load balancing
purposes on a few links.

On Wed, Jan 3, 2024 at 7:19 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> are your routing IPs in a bridge with other IP addresses?
>
> On Wed, Jan 3, 2024, 10:09 AM castarritt  wrote:
>
>> Had an odd issue last night.  All 'tik OSPF routed network with routers
>> at each tower site.  Simple single area OSPF setup, no MPLS or other
>> overlay, about 700 internal routes.  Last night, some customers on APs
>> connected to specific tower routers lost connection to the internet.  Our
>> monitoring system never lost connection to any of the customer SMs or
>> anything else in our network, so no alarms were raised.  The issue lasted a
>> few hours overnight and recovered on its own without any of us getting to
>> take a look at it.  It is like the affected routers lost their dynamic
>> default route.  The affected routers appear to be randomly scattered around
>> our network.  They aren't all connected along the same backhaul paths, and
>> in one case where we had two routers at a specific site, only one of the
>> routers was affected.  This happened at the tail end of a heavy rain storm
>> that was causing a lot of OSPF topology changes as microwave links went in
>> and out of service due to rain fade.
>>
>> Anyone else seen something like this?  Is our routing table getting too
>> big for 'tik to handle with a single OSPF area?
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant

[castarritt]

We also use ICT and have been running them with both ISP Supplies and Power
Storage Solutions LFP packs without any problems.  The only downside is
that the ICT shelf can't read the state of charge or give your an estimated
runtime remaining with lithium batteries.  I understand they won't have a
super accurate reading on those parameters without communicating with the
BMS, but I wish they could at least calculate AH in and out vs set AH
capacity to give a rough estimate.

On Thu, Jan 4, 2024 at 9:49 AM Gino A. Villarini  wrote:

> We are having great success with signature solar units and ICT rectifiers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  *Gino Villarini*
> Founder / President
> @GVillarini
> 787.273.4143 |
>  
> 
> 
>  
>  
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>   
> [image: AeroNet-dula-network-access.jpg]
> 
> 
>
> *From: *AF  on behalf of Mark - Myakka
> Technologies 
> *Date: *Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 11:38 AM
> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> I'm starting to get flashbacks for the last time I did this.  It wasn't a
> pleasant experience.  Felt I was oversold un-needed over priced options.
> Trying to be more careful this time.
>
> Looking at the LifePO4 stuff and finding a bunch of rack mount batteries,
> but they all seem to be China made.  Can anyone recommend a brand they are
> using.  Also, can't find any rack mount chargers to to charge these guys.
> Has anyone here actually setup a LifePO4 plant.  I may have to stay with
> the Lead Acid stuff, rather not be doing a DIY system or be on the bleeding
> edge.
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>
> Myakka Communications
>
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myakka.com%2F=05%7C02%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C3433113bdfe540761c1b08dc0d3b2785%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638399794931390821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=pA6vfvxRSGWsI7swrVsTbzp6IYiq62CJO0AcRRUAyiE%3D=0
> 
>
> --
>
> Wednesday, January 3, 2024, 8:02:33 PM, you wrote:
>
> PKvA> Something to think about is that LiFePO4 is good to 100% DOD,
> whereas we
> PKvA> should all be keeping lead-acids above 50% DOD if we want lifespan..
> So
> PKvA> 460Ah lifepo4 = 920Ah lead-acid in my mind..
>
> PKvA> Peter Kranz
> PKvA>
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unwiredltd.com%2F=05%7C02%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C3433113bdfe540761c1b08dc0d3b2785%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638399794931390821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=t9Hy5%2BztcKAjRibHx1pcXUM8vciPDMeGmf5JRA2%2BN3U%3D=0
> 
> PKvA> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> PKvA> Mobile: 510-207-
> PKvA> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
> PKvA> -Original Message-
> PKvA> From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
> PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2024 4:57 PM
> PKvA> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> PKvA> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> PKvA> Of course the algorithms will be showing us all ads for LiFePO4
> batts now.
> PKvA> I got one the other day for this one:
> PKvA>
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.epochbatteries.com%2Fproducts%2F12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heate=05%7C02%7Cgav%40aeronetpr.com%7C3433113bdfe540761c1b08dc0d3b2785%7C786321c8ea74460e81c62d3479dd1728%7C0%7C0%7C638399794931390821%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=PKVNWn62PB%2Fp2ghr%2FCJDFp%2B9lKmlqyHk19SiqbLWBNI%3D=0
> 
> PKvA> d-bluetooth-victron-comms
>
> PKvA> 12V 460Ah in an 8D size.  What some people call a "truck battery".
> That's a
> PKvA> lot of Ah.  We have some 10+ year old old 8D AGMs I think they are
> rated 225
> PKvA> Ah.  Heavy suckers.  Just hauling them to the recycler at EOL is a
> chore.
>
>
> PKvA> -Original Message-
> PKvA> From: AF  On Behalf Of Peter Kranz via AF
> PKvA> Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2024 5:31 PM
> PKvA> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> PKvA> Cc: Peter Kranz 
> PKvA> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48v power plant
>
> PKvA> Yes you poll each unit. Each battery in the string has a Battery ID
> set by
> PKvA> dip switches. If you have a compatible inverter/charger it polls each
> PKvA> battery to pull data 

Re: [AFMUG] EXTERNAL - Odd routing issue

[castarritt]

48 routers

On Wed, Jan 3, 2024 at 11:33 AM Kevin Neal  wrote:

> How many total routers do you have in the OSPF area?  We ran into a
> similar issue and ended up having to segregate portions of our network into
> separate OSPF Areas to bring stability back.  There's a wall you'll hit
> when topology changes occur and the routers can't keep up with route
> updates, it's not just a # of routes in a single area, it's the
> combination.  The symptom is that some routes aren't installed on some
> routers.
>
> In your case it may be that the router lost its default, or, more likely
> an upstream router didn't install the downstream route.  We had this where
> on a single router with multiple routes, some would work and others
> wouldn't.
>
> -Kevin
> ------
> *From:* AF  on behalf of castarritt <
> castarr...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 3, 2024 9:08 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com 
> *Subject:* EXTERNAL - [AFMUG] Odd routing issue
>
>
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
> click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know
> the content is safe. Please report all suspicious emails to
> info...@anthembusinessgroup.com as an attachment.
>
> Had an odd issue last night.  All 'tik OSPF routed network with routers at
> each tower site.  Simple single area OSPF setup, no MPLS or other overlay,
> about 700 internal routes.  Last night, some customers on APs connected to
> specific tower routers lost connection to the internet.  Our monitoring
> system never lost connection to any of the customer SMs or anything else in
> our network, so no alarms were raised.  The issue lasted a few hours
> overnight and recovered on its own without any of us getting to take a look
> at it.  It is like the affected routers lost their dynamic default route.
> The affected routers appear to be randomly scattered around our network.
> They aren't all connected along the same backhaul paths, and in one case
> where we had two routers at a specific site, only one of the routers was
> affected.  This happened at the tail end of a heavy rain storm that was
> causing a lot of OSPF topology changes as microwave links went in and out
> of service due to rain fade.
>
> Anyone else seen something like this?  Is our routing table getting too
> big for 'tik to handle with a single OSPF area?
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] Odd routing issue

[castarritt]

Had an odd issue last night.  All 'tik OSPF routed network with routers at
each tower site.  Simple single area OSPF setup, no MPLS or other overlay,
about 700 internal routes.  Last night, some customers on APs connected to
specific tower routers lost connection to the internet.  Our monitoring
system never lost connection to any of the customer SMs or anything else in
our network, so no alarms were raised.  The issue lasted a few hours
overnight and recovered on its own without any of us getting to take a look
at it.  It is like the affected routers lost their dynamic default route.
The affected routers appear to be randomly scattered around our network.
They aren't all connected along the same backhaul paths, and in one case
where we had two routers at a specific site, only one of the routers was
affected.  This happened at the tail end of a heavy rain storm that was
causing a lot of OSPF topology changes as microwave links went in and out
of service due to rain fade.

Anyone else seen something like this?  Is our routing table getting too big
for 'tik to handle with a single OSPF area?
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] PMP450i GPS/Sync issue

[castarritt]

GLONASS date rollover issue.  Reboot.

https://packetflux.info/glonassrollover/

On Sun, Dec 31, 2023 at 5:43 PM Christopher Tyler 
wrote:

> A couple of hours ago all of our PMP450i radios started losing sync,
> reaquire, then lose again. Is anyone else seeing similar issues? All other
> 450 AP's seem to be working fine.
>
> 
> Christopher Tyler
> Senior Network Engineer
> Total Highspeed Internet Solutions
> +1 417-851-1107 ext 9002
> ch...@totalhighspeed.net
>
> 
>  Book
> time to meet with me
> 
>
> This institution is an equal opportunity provider and employer. Esta
> institución es un proveedor de servicios con igualdad de oportunidades.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] WDM transceivers

[castarritt]

I haven't heard of anyone doing it like that, but I think it should work.
What I have heard of is connecting a dwdm mux to one of the channels of a
cwdm mux and running multiple channels of dwdm over a single cwdm channel,
but I haven't tried that myself.

On Thu, Dec 21, 2023 at 9:31 AM  wrote:

> Well you’d buy them because there are up to 96 DWDM channels, and only up
> to 18 CWDM channels.  You’d still be limited to the number of ports on the
> MUX.
>
>
>
> The situation is the CWDM MUX is already there, and our vendor momentarily
> has a shorter lead time on DWDM.  The upper CWDM channels happen to overlap
> with DWDM.  If I took a DWDM transceiver at 1570.01nm and plugged it into
> the CWDM MUX on the 1570nm port there’s no reason that shouldn’t work
> right?
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 21, 2023 9:27 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] WDM transceivers
>
>
>
> My guess would be no...otherwise no one would buy DWDM multiplexers...
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 5:38 PM  wrote:
>
> Dumb question of the week:
>
> Could I run a pair of DWDM transceivers through a CWDM multiplexer and
> expect it to work?  I’d only be using a small slice of the channel, but if
> the DWDM wavelength is encompassed by the larger CWDM wavelength then that
> light should still reach the intended destination, right?
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP4600

[castarritt]

36dbm is max for 6ghz, and that is assuming an SM with built in GPS.  SMs
without GPS will be limited to 30dbm.  I haven't used any Mimosa, but I bet
they will limit it to the same EIRP if you set them up with the correct
antenna gain.

On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 1:56 PM Peter Kranz via AF  wrote:

> I currently have a few experimental 6Ghz licenses, where we have been
> trialing the Mimosa A6 equipment. So far the A6 has not been super stable,
> although the performance when it is stable was exciting at > 800 Mbps for
> subs. Also has problems with timing for customers past 5 miles or so.
>
>
>
> Anyway, I’m thinking of switching gears to Cambium’s 4600 platform to have
> something more stable. Am I correct in that Cambium is limiting the EIRP of
> the SMs to 36db? So the 25db subscriber dish transmits into the dish at +11?
>
>
>
> This sounds like the solution is limited to about 4-5 miles as a result..
> Am I missing something here?
>
>
>
> Peter Kranz
> www.UnwiredLtd.com 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] "Low pass" attenuator

[castarritt]

So overload is -14db where the other one is -7, but is rx sensitivity also
~7db higher?  if it is, just pop a ~7db attenuator into it and all the
weaker ONTs will still connect just fine.

On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 3:31 PM  wrote:

> In my imagination I picture something with microsecond response time that
> only affects the signal from the stronger ONT.
>
> If signal is stronger than -15 then reduce it by 5dB.
>
>
>
> Maybe some kind of opto-electronic switch that directs light through two
> equal length paths.  One path has the attenuator, and the signals from the
> strong ONT take that path and recombine with the unattenuated path
> afterwards.  I suppose it doesn’t exist and would cost a million dollars if
> it did.
>
>
>
> We’ll see if the vendor can fix the sensitivity issue, and otherwise we’ll
> just not buy that unit.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* ch...@go-mtc.com 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 11, 2023 1:01 PM
> *To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <
> af@af.afmug.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "Low pass" attenuator
>
>
>
> The real hot ones are just a time slice I presume so you would have to
> take the attenuator in and out of the circuit synched on the ont transmit
> schedule.
>
> Pads on hot ONTs seem to be the only solution to me.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 11, 2023 10:16 AM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>
> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] "Low pass" attenuator
>
>
>
> Exactly.
>
> We were testing a different brand of XGS-PON transceiver.  It works fine,
> except clients stronger than about -14 don’t connect.  Our current brand
> alarms at -10, but functions as high as -7, so our design assumes -10 as a
> cutoff.
>
> We can go around and pad the hot ONT’s, but it would be super convenient
> if we could magically add 5dB to only the real hot ones.
>
>
>
> …. we could just not use the transceiver, but it’s a lot cheaper than what
> the OLT manufacturer is selling us so it would be nice to make it work.
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 11, 2023 11:01 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] “Low pass” attenuator
>
>
>
> Curious, where would you have two signals of different amplitude in a
> fiber system?  PON return signals?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 11, 2023 5:07 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] “Low pass” attenuator
>
>
>
> Is there such a thing as a fiber attenuator that only attenuates a signal
> higher than some threshold?
>
>
>
> I’m thinking to prevent overloading a receiver, but let weaker signals
> pass unimpeded.
>
>
>
> Get Outlook for iOS 
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT tracert

[castarritt]

Unless that delay shows up for all hops past that one, it was likely just a
router with an overloaded control plane that can't respond to ICMP, and not
anything that affects traffic forwarded through it.

On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 1:02 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Thanks everyone.  Not sure what is to blame here.  It appears Godaddy is
> the problem at times.  Working better now.  But all of you had a much
> different tracert than I did.  I had a multple second delay between cogents
> last node and godaddy.
>
>
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 31, 2023 11:13 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT tracert
>
> See
> https://pagespeed.web.dev/analysis/http-www-microtrench-blades-com/7zj3glpe5h?form_factor=mobile
> for some insights.
>
> Seems like there are some very large images which can be better
> compressed.   And a few other things.
>
> On Wed, May 31, 2023, 10:17 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Could some of you do a tracert to www.microtrench-blades.com please
>> Go Daddy is blaming the slow load on my ISP yeah.
>>
>> Something is making it load very slow for me and others.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT tracert

[castarritt]

And from the same router going out HE instead of cogent.  Looks like some
weird routing between HE and cogent at equinix dallas, but no jitter or
loss to the end point.  Site still seems to be loading fine with endpoint
IP routed out HE for me (my computer is going through this router).

address: microtrench-blades.com
 # ADDRESS  LOSS SENTLAST AVGBEST
WORST STD-DEV STATUS
 1 184.105.20.169   80..   99   0.4ms 4.2 0.4
 13.9 4.8
 2 62.115.176.9   0%   99  23.2ms23.2  23
 24.8 0.2
 3 213.155.141.19 0%   99  23.3ms26.222.7
 49 6.3
 4 89.149.184.113   16..   99  81.6ms84.622.8
337.385.1
 5 173.205.46.98  0%   9923ms  2322.9
 25.5 0.3
 6 192.124.249.1100%   9923ms  2322.8
 24.1 0.2

On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 11:53 AM castarritt  wrote:

> This is over cogent transit from our rack in equinix dallas.  Your site
> seems to be loading fine for me.
>
> /tool> traceroute
> address: microtrench-blades.com
>  # ADDRESS  LOSS SENTLAST AVGBEST
> WORST STD-DEV STATUS
>  1 38.122.57.193  0%  130   0.9ms 0.9 0.6
> 1.7 0.1
>  2 154.54.5.650%  130   1.1ms 1.1 0.7
> 1.7 0.1
>  3 154.54.28.73   0%  130   0.8ms 2.6 0.7
>  46.9 6.9
>  4 154.54.46.158  0%  130   0.8ms 0.9 0.7
> 1.2 0.1
>  5 38.140.204.18  0%  130   0.6ms 0.5 0.5
> 0.8 0.1
>  6 192.124.249.1100%  130   0.5ms 0.5 0.4
> 0.6   0
>
> On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 11:17 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Could some of you do a tracert to www.microtrench-blades.com please
>> Go Daddy is blaming the slow load on my ISP yeah.
>>
>> Something is making it load very slow for me and others.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT tracert

[castarritt]

This is over cogent transit from our rack in equinix dallas.  Your site
seems to be loading fine for me.

/tool> traceroute
address: microtrench-blades.com
 # ADDRESS  LOSS SENTLAST AVGBEST
WORST STD-DEV STATUS
 1 38.122.57.193  0%  130   0.9ms 0.9 0.6
1.7 0.1
 2 154.54.5.650%  130   1.1ms 1.1 0.7
1.7 0.1
 3 154.54.28.73   0%  130   0.8ms 2.6 0.7
 46.9 6.9
 4 154.54.46.158  0%  130   0.8ms 0.9 0.7
1.2 0.1
 5 38.140.204.18  0%  130   0.6ms 0.5 0.5
0.8 0.1
 6 192.124.249.1100%  130   0.5ms 0.5 0.4
0.6   0

On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 11:17 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> Could some of you do a tracert to www.microtrench-blades.com please
> Go Daddy is blaming the slow load on my ISP yeah.
>
> Something is making it load very slow for me and others.
>
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Tik 1072 watchdog reboot bug

[castarritt]

We are up to over 700 in a single area and it is starting to take more than
just a few seconds for it to reconverge after a change, thinking it might
be time to change things.

On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 10:17 AM Dennis Burgess 
wrote:

> We have customers with a bit over 200 in one area.  Really not how many
> devices you have, it depends on how many state changes you have normally.
> That network is VERY stable, a lot of fiber, so it works well.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * castarritt
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 13, 2023 9:38 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tik 1072 watchdog reboot bug
>
>
>
> How many routes are you running over OSPF?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 9:34 AM Steven Kenney via AF 
> wrote:
>
> Try pushing a total of 20+Gbps, and probably more if you combine all the
> ports.  I'm not talking about running normally. I've run OSPF without an
> update for up to a year without a crash.   I'm talking when you need to
> make major changes to the structure of your area, add or remove p2p
> connections etc.   It tends not to like that at least on RO6 and the 1072.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 12:00 AM Dennis Burgess 
> wrote:
>
> We have had ospf on routers running 5+ gig of traffic with uptimes of over
> 200 days without issues. I can name a few customers that had or have
> those.  Just a FYI.
>
>
>
>
>
> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>
>
> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
> MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified *
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Need to Automate MikroTik Backups:  https://cloud.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steven Kenney via AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 12, 2023 1:18 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Steven Kenney 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tik 1072 watchdog reboot bug
>
>
>
> OSPF will also kill the system and force a watchdog reboot.  If I remove a
> a long time link between routers sure enough the router will reboot itself
> a couple days later.  Anything OSPF when it comes to removing existing
> rules (if you have enough going on)  it will die.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 1:05 PM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> Then why did mine have a kernel panic when there is no connection
> tracking?  Why is it solved with significantly more traffic and only
> changing the firewall?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 11:46 AM Trey Scarborough  wrote:
>
> Its a known hardware issue with connection tracking enabled and hardware
> offload. It has a hard limit to the number of connections it supports that
> is pretty low. Its high enough you won't notice till you get significant
> traffic, but low enough it is a common issue. The fix is to turn off
> connection tracking I know this isn't the best solution, but its the only
> one that works. This and the hardware availability of the processor are the
> reason they are discontinued. The good news is that moving over to the
> newer generation seems to resolve this, but comes with a handful of version
> 7 quirks.
>
> On 4/11/2023 5:55 PM, Alex Kessler wrote:
>
> Been experiencing this bug for years while running NAT and connection
> tracking.  Rebooting every few months while running v6 latest.  Does v7
> have any known fixes to resolve these watchdog reboots?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
>
>
>
>
> From: "Colin Stanners" < cstanners at gmail.com >
> To: "af" < af at af.afmug.com >
> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 12:59:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik 1072 Frustrations
>
> This last year, I've seen a MikroTik CCR1072 switch from long being
> rock-solid to now having occasional random reboots (from watchdog) or 100%
> CPU usage, which strangles the BGP process. In the latter case,
> tools->profile would show the firewall taking 100% of CPU, even after
> temporarily disabling all firewall filter and NAT rules and connection
> tracking. Not fun.
>
> MT tech support did not seem super helpful or interested, mostly
> recommending to disable watchdog (unacceptable on a production router) or
> to upgrade firmware (without specifying the suspected cause of the problem
> or nature of the fix).
>
> Tried 1 update, that didn't seem to help, have now tried another...
>
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 11:38 PM Steven Kenney < steve at wa

Re: [AFMUG] Tik 1072 watchdog reboot bug

[castarritt]

How many routes are you running over OSPF?

On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 9:34 AM Steven Kenney via AF 
wrote:

> Try pushing a total of 20+Gbps, and probably more if you combine all the
> ports.  I'm not talking about running normally. I've run OSPF without an
> update for up to a year without a crash.   I'm talking when you need to
> make major changes to the structure of your area, add or remove p2p
> connections etc.   It tends not to like that at least on RO6 and the 1072.
>
> On Thu, Apr 13, 2023 at 12:00 AM Dennis Burgess 
> wrote:
>
>> We have had ospf on routers running 5+ gig of traffic with uptimes of
>> over 200 days without issues. I can name a few customers that had or have
>> those.  Just a FYI.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>>
>>
>> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
>> MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified *
>>
>> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>>
>> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>>
>> Need to Automate MikroTik Backups:  https://cloud.linktechs.net
>>
>> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steven Kenney via AF
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 12, 2023 1:18 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Cc:* Steven Kenney 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Tik 1072 watchdog reboot bug
>>
>>
>>
>> OSPF will also kill the system and force a watchdog reboot.  If I remove
>> a a long time link between routers sure enough the router will reboot
>> itself a couple days later.  Anything OSPF when it comes to removing
>> existing rules (if you have enough going on)  it will die.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 1:05 PM Josh Luthman 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Then why did mine have a kernel panic when there is no connection
>> tracking?  Why is it solved with significantly more traffic and only
>> changing the firewall?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 11:46 AM Trey Scarborough  wrote:
>>
>> Its a known hardware issue with connection tracking enabled and hardware
>> offload. It has a hard limit to the number of connections it supports that
>> is pretty low. Its high enough you won't notice till you get significant
>> traffic, but low enough it is a common issue. The fix is to turn off
>> connection tracking I know this isn't the best solution, but its the only
>> one that works. This and the hardware availability of the processor are the
>> reason they are discontinued. The good news is that moving over to the
>> newer generation seems to resolve this, but comes with a handful of version
>> 7 quirks.
>>
>> On 4/11/2023 5:55 PM, Alex Kessler wrote:
>>
>> Been experiencing this bug for years while running NAT and connection
>> tracking.  Rebooting every few months while running v6 latest.  Does v7
>> have any known fixes to resolve these watchdog reboots?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: "Colin Stanners" < cstanners at gmail.com >
>> To: "af" < af at af.afmug.com >
>> Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 12:59:09 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik 1072 Frustrations
>>
>> This last year, I've seen a MikroTik CCR1072 switch from long being
>> rock-solid to now having occasional random reboots (from watchdog) or 100%
>> CPU usage, which strangles the BGP process. In the latter case,
>> tools->profile would show the firewall taking 100% of CPU, even after
>> temporarily disabling all firewall filter and NAT rules and connection
>> tracking. Not fun.
>>
>> MT tech support did not seem super helpful or interested, mostly
>> recommending to disable watchdog (unacceptable on a production router) or
>> to upgrade firmware (without specifying the suspected cause of the problem
>> or nature of the fix).
>>
>> Tried 1 update, that didn't seem to help, have now tried another...
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 11:38 PM Steven Kenney < steve at wavedirect.org >
>> wrote:
>> MIkrotik has been rock solid for me for years. Until this year and the
>> 1072's. Random reboots set off by watchdog timer on all of my 1072's. Some
>> more than others. Threads in the forum all discuss the same problem
>> exactly. Its a connection tracking issue.. however I need connection
>> tracking on one particular router. I've adjusted everything I could.
>> Firmware and board firmware all up to date etc. Happens randomly with low
>> levels of traffic, high levels of traffic, sometimes a couple times a day,
>> sometimes weeks. No DDOS evidence at all from upstream routers. Configs
>> checked and rechecked by third party experts. I graph everything about the
>> Mikrotik and there are no clues or anything abnormal happening before the
>> crash. Plenty of memory, disk space, CPU etc. Replaces all the trannies,
>> power cables and such. Not running BGP only OSPF on the one that is giving
>> me the most trouble.
>>
>> Even have a serial console cable 

Re: [AFMUG] New toy

[castarritt]

I would define high voltage as anything above the dielectric breakdown
voltage of human skin; that is pretty much the point where it goes from oh
shit this hurts and might maim me to instant fatality.

On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 12:58 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> To me, HV is anything over 600 volts but more like 2200V and higher.
> With solar string inverters, you frequently have to work 1000V live.
>
> I do 480 live all the time, with respect.  It is only 277 to ground.
>
> 480 will hurt you bad but not kill as instantly like primary will.
> Some guys that survived a primary contact wished it had killed them.
>
> What do you consider HV?
>
>
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 19, 2023 6:07 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] New toy
>
> We got a contract to install and wire power meters on 26 wells...working
> with high voltage...
> Not taking any chances...
> Peace
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] New toy

[castarritt]

It also depends on how well you are grounded.  If you aren't grounded, you
won't draw any current on DC power.  With AC, you will still draw some
current due to capacitance even if you are completely ungrounded.

On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 1:59 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I have to wet my hands to even feel 48 volts.
> 120 does not register as painful if my skin is dry.  Just a startling
> vibration.
>
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Monday, March 20, 2023 12:22 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New toy
>
> Anything above 24vdc
>
> On Mon, Mar 20, 2023, 11:58 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> To me, HV is anything over 600 volts but more like 2200V and higher.
>> With solar string inverters, you frequently have to work 1000V live.
>>
>> I do 480 live all the time, with respect.  It is only 277 to ground.
>>
>> 480 will hurt you bad but not kill as instantly like primary will.
>> Some guys that survived a primary contact wished it had killed them.
>>
>> What do you consider HV?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 19, 2023 6:07 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] New toy
>>
>> We got a contract to install and wire power meters on 26 wells...working
>> with high voltage...
>> Not taking any chances...
>> Peace
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] AC Power Plant

[castarritt]

Alpha FXM-2000 was our go-to solution, but they are discontinued now.  We
have one Newmar AC-UPS-48-2000 in the field and it has been fine so
far.  I've never looked for anything over 2000 watts on an AC UPS; DC seems
like a far better option for that much power.

On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 11:16 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> I have a nice DC power plant running my -48v stuff has about 140 ah worth
> of battery on it.  Runs well has remote monitoring with e-mail alerts, web
> gui, SNMP, etc.
>
> I'm looking for something similar for my AC stuff.  Total load is now
> about 1500 Watts.  Looking for something that can handle about 3000 Watts
> to let us grow.
>
> Want it to have remote monitoring.  I'll start with about 100ah worth of
> battery, but may need to add to that as we add more equipment.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> For what it is worth I do have some nice cyberpower battery units with the
> external battery plug.  Has anyone tried to use larger sealed batteries
> with those units?  Just wondering is the have any type of battery temp
> monitoring on them.
>
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
>  Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Communications
> www.Myakka.com
>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] -48v to 12v 1A

[castarritt]

Consensus around here seems to be that the Meanwell RSD series is a good
option, and I have used a few of them for converting +-48vdc to 24v and
12v.  Most recently I stuffed an RSD-100C-12 into a CRS354-48G-4S+2Q+RM.
You could use the same, or an RSD-60L-12 would be a bit smaller and should
still do the trick.

I've actually moved away from -48v positive ground power though, and I just
use +48v negative ground power systems now.  I have yet to run into a radio
that actually needs -48vdc.  Almost all of them will say -48v in the spec
sheet, but when you check continuity between the power input and the
chassis/ground, you find the power input is isolated, and every time I've
contacted a radio manufacturer about it they have all confirmed that +48v
power is fine.  I think -48v power is more of a copper outside plant thing
where you have to worry about galvanic corrosion.  Someone as WISPA
mentioned that -48v gets you some extra lightning protection since
something like 95% of lightning strikes are energizing the tower with a
strong negative charge, and like repels like, but then again the other 5%
of strikes that are positive ground to cloud lightning are something like
100x more powerful, so I'm not sure I buy the -48v lightning protection
argument.

On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 2:56 PM Sterling Jacobson 
wrote:

>
>
> I’m not familiar with -48v power plant.
>
>
>
> What would it take to “convert” from a -48v wire pair to a 12v 1A wire
> pair?
>
>
>
> I’m converting a Mikrotik CCR 2004 to -48v plant in my cabinets.
>
> The 2004 doesn’t have replaceable power supplies so I was just going to
> cut and wire the 12v headers on the motherboard to a DC barrel installed on
> the back of the unit alongside the AC Input…
>
> Not sure if that would be best, easiest? It’s easy to find 48v to 12v
> downconverters, but -48v is a mystery to me.
>
>
>
> Help me demystify it?
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Re: [AFMUG] OSPF Pulling my hair out

[castarritt]

I made an IP conflict recently after goofing my documentation on a /28 and
overlapping part of it with a /30 on the same router.  It caused the same
sort of problem you were having.

On Wed, Oct 12, 2022 at 8:47 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I changed the /30 that the OSPF network was using over the F425 and that
> seems to have fixed it.  The original /30 does not exist anywhere else
> on the network that I can find, either as a route, defined IP,  or a
> Router ID.  I didn't think of changing that since it seemed to be a
> weather event that triggered it in the first place, and it had been
> working fine for months.
>
> On 10/12/2022 7:11 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
> > I would have to take a look, but sounds like duplicate routerID or BFD.
> OSPF is pretty straight forward on this.
> >
> >
> >
> > Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> > MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP
> Certified
> > Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition"
> > Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> > Office: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
> > Need to Automate MikroTik Backups:  https://cloud.linktechs.net
> > Create Wireless Coverage's with www.towercoverage.com
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2022 5:18 PM
> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OSPF Pulling my hair out
> >
> > I changed the RB4011 to a RB2009, and tried downgrading the RB4011 to
> > ROS6.49.6 from ROS7.5 and it's doing the exact same thing.  I've tried
> setting up an EoIP Tunnel across the F425, and changed the Router ID in
> OSPF.  Still doing the exact same thing.  As soon as I enable the F425
> link, the Entire route table will flap between the Powerbridge and the
> > F425 even though the powerbridge is a cost of 20 higher than the F425.
> > If I disable the F425, everything is stable over the Powerbridge.  Not
> sure what else to try.
> >
> > On 10/6/2022 4:22 PM, Robert Haas wrote:
> >> Make sure you haven't duplicated your router id.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2022 1:58 PM
> >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> >> Subject: [AFMUG] OSPF Pulling my hair out
> >>
> >> I have a site with a RB4011 connected via an old M5 Powerbridge, and an
> EPMP PTP425.  The 4011 is running ROSv7, everything else is on ROSv6.
> Connecting to a CCR1036 and CCR1009 on the other ends of the radios.
> >>
> >> Everything was working perfectly for several months until a storm came
> >> through, and now the F425 OSPF Session will not stay stable. The OSPF
> >> Weights are set to prefer the F425 link.  The OSPF neighbor never goes
> >> down, Adjacency/state never change, but the RB4011 will update it's
> >> entire routing table about every 5 seconds and flap back and forth
> >> between the Powerbridge and the F425.  The remote routers never update
> >> the route to the 4011, it is stable over the F425.  If I disable the
> >> F425 neighbor, everything is stable over the powerbridge.  If I disable
> the Powerbridge neighbor, the router will lose connectivity for a second
> every 10 or 15 seconds, like it loses it's routing table.
> >>
> >> There is no packet loss across the F425 link, and it will Tik to Tik bw
> test at 100MB sync no problem and no packet loss.  I've even tried changing
> ports on the 4011, plugging the F425 into a completely separate OSPF router
> on the remote end.  I've also put the traffic through a VLAN on the F425 to
> see if the F425 was doing something weird with the packets.  The F425
> radios on both ends have been power cycled.  I've also updated ROS to the
> latest 7beta, and no change.
> >>
> >> I'd think this is an issue with ROSv7/6 since the routing table keeps
> updating, but the powerbridge link is always fine, so it feels like
> something with the F425.  Especially since it happened after a storm.
> >> But at the same time, how could a failure of the F425 be affecting
> OSPF?  When I do OSPF Logging on the 4011, nothing is looking out of the
> ordinary.  I guess I could try physically changing the 4011, but I've never
> had a failure like that before.
> >>
> >> Mainly I just want to vent that I'm probably missing something stupid,
> I just haven't been able to figure out what it is yet.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] My Internet is down and I can't sleep

[castarritt]

AaaS?

On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 12:19 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> Welcome to the future, if you want to sleep you have to pay.  Maybe we can
> connect the air to the internet too.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 21, 2022 9:42 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] My Internet is down and I can't sleep
>
> It's a real property DRM.  Require the bed to have a monthly subscription
> and if they don't pay it, shut off the features.
>
> On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 11:34 AM Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
>> Or maybe it randomly folds them in half while they are sleeping? Who has
>> something like this that "has" to have internet connectivity? Why would the
>> mattress company require this?
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 9:20 AM Nate Burke  wrote:
>>
>>> One of our grain legs is getting demolished and rebuilt, so the site is
>>> down for a week.  Planned outage, all the customers knew. Customer
>>> emailed yesterday and wanted to know how much longer it will be down
>>> because they can't control their mattress without the internet.  I'm
>>> having visions of something from 'Naked Gun' or 'Airplane' of the
>>> mattress just going crazy and they have it barricaded in a room.
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager

[castarritt]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MHW-RTG

"The initial thermoelectric couple hot junction temperature was 1273 K
(1000 °C, 1832 °F)"

You might not need much radiator surface area when it is that hot.  Just be
careful when packing the spacecraft up on the rocket that you don't touch
it with combustible materials like solvents, oils, and technicians.

On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 1:01 PM Robert  wrote:

> No moving parts, not generating through reaction, just through decay...
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator
>
> On 8/31/22 10:37 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> In order to generate 470 watts electrical, you would need something like
> 10kW thermal.  Thermal to electric conversion methods are horribly
> inefficient.  So out on that boom they have had a 10kW glowing chunk of
> metal all this time.  Or did they have multiple chunks that they moved
> together to react?  In any event, that is a bunch of heat to get rid of.
> They must have had a way to turn it up because getting 10 kW out of the
> launch vehicle would have been a huge problem.
>
> *From:* Daniel Pautz via AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:30 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Cc:* Daniel Pautz
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager
>
>
> I read this a few years back.
> https://www.universetoday.com/142802/nasa-has-figured-out-how-to-extend-the-lives-of-the-voyagers-even-longer/
>
>
>
> They launched making 470 watts and down to a whopping 270 watts in 2011
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Robert
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:27 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager
>
>
>
> baby nuke=thermal generator, pu based..?
>
> On 8/31/22 10:23 AM, Daniel Pautz via AF wrote:
>
> Though these two guys didn’t have solar panels,  good old baby nuke on
> board.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via
> AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:13 AM
> *To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Voyager
>
>
>
> I was taught, many years ago, that minority (might have been majority)
> charge carrier migration in semiconductors would render them useless in 20
> years.  Also solar panels are supposed to wear out in 20 years.  And cosmic
> rays kill all semiconductors.  etc etc  Danged good modulation they are
> using whatever it is.  I think it was some kind of pseudo random noise code
> but I may be wrong about that.  A professor in an analog class told me that
> almost 40 years ago.
>
>
>
> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:08 AM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Cc:* 'Chuck McCown'
>
> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT Voyager
>
>
>
> I’d bet a smaller codebase helps.  No gigabytes of libraries to debug.
>
>
>
> But yeah, if something I built lasted 45 years in outer space I’d pat
> myself on the back a bit.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2022 11:50 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Voyager
>
>
>
> This space vehicle launched 45 years ago started sending garbage
> telemetry.  The folks running that show figured it was routing the data
> through a known defective computer.
>
>
>
> So they commanded it to switch to the good computer and they got good
> telemetry.
>
>
>
> Talk about latency... 16 hours.
>
>
>
> So 45 (more likely 55) year old hardware running an OS that old is still
> essentially rocks solid.  So are the transmitters and receivers and other
> RF components allowing communication clear out into deep space.
>
>
>
> Damn, those engineers and coders must be proud of the job they did.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Mikrotik CCR PoE Input

[castarritt]

I haven't tried a CCR on PoE, but I'm powering a CRS326-24G-2S+RM off of a
RackInjector using the "traditional UBNT and Mikrotik" pinout described in
the Packetflux documentation here:

https://products.packetflux.com/rackinjector/RI-PIPS-Appendix-20170911.pdf

On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 2:50 PM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Does anyone know what pins work for powering a compatible CCR unit via
> DC?  I can't seem to find anything that specs more than two pairs, I assume
> I need all 4 pairs for power and gigabit data. I'd like to power a couple
> of CCR's using ports on a rackinjector.
>
> Thanks.
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT too old - (Soylent Green is People)

[castarritt]

Negative. I'm a meat popsicle.

On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 3:11 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Meathead works in all situations.
>
> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 22, 2022 1:12 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT too old - (Soylent Green is People)
>
>
> There was a brief time in 18th century revolutionary France when terms
> like “Sir”, and “Madam” were seen as too much like supporting aristocracy
> and therefore monarchy.  Some people insisted on using the terms “citizen”
> and “citizeness”.  It didn’t last because it was stupid.
>
>
>
> Nobody’s going to learn 66 additional personal pronouns.  Some jackasses
> will say they should be called “Zie” and most people will ignore them.  A
> few will try to politely do it, and a few smart alecs will tell Zim to Zuck
> Zieself.
>
>
>
> ….and then it will fade into a historical curiosity like the titles
> “citizen” and “citizeness”.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 22, 2022 11:05 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT too old - (Soylent Green is People)
>
>
>
> Got a spam from an HR training company willing to come in and train my
> staff on the proper usage of the 78 personal pronouns.  Seriously...
>
> Gheeze.
>
>
>
> From now on, I will only answer to “the demigod”.
>
>
>
> (demi girl was one of the pronouns)
>
> --
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>
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[AFMUG] Unobtanium 'tik 48v DC power board

[castarritt]

I Haven't been able to find Mikrotik PW48V-12V85W power supplies in stock
all year, not even on ebay.  Anyone have a lead on these?  I'm almost to
the point where I will start trying to duct tape and bailing wire some
RSD100C-12 Meanwells to these Mikrotiks.
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Re: [AFMUG] OT - here I go again...

[castarritt]

It doesn't need to be fully autonomous, it can have a human in the loop
authorizing use of force.  Also, it doesn't really need to use lethal force
as long as it is designed to not get instantly disabled by a couple
5.56x45mm hits.  It could have five arms with tazer probes in them to grab
the perp by both arms and both legs plus nutsack.  You could spread bots
out all over the city (including a couple at each school), and you only
need a handful of officers at the station to control them.  They would also
be a good alternative to the no knock raids that have gotten out of control.

On Tue, Jun 7, 2022 at 11:31 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> On the face of it, it violates the three robot laws.  Programming an
> end-run around those 3 laws and us humans are in trouble.  So how do we
> program a robot to tell the difference between crazy carrying a gun and not
> crazy?  Killer vs. non-killer?  Cop arresting criminal vs cop doing his
> job?  Cop carrying weapons?  Can you bend over enough to kiss your ass
> goodbye?
>
> I like those really fast dog-like robots the military is working on, they
> could take out a whole platoon, silently.
> On 6/7/22 08:23, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:
>
> Is it just me, or does anyone else think that lethal robots are a really
> bad idea?
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
> On Jun 7, 2022, at 11:08 AM, Darin Steffl 
>  wrote:
>
> 
> Maybe Tesla's new Optimus robot can help in future active shooter
> situations. Send it in instead of scared humans and let it disable the bad
> guy.
>
> On Tue, Jun 7, 2022, 9:40 AM Andy Trimmell 
> wrote:
>
>> I liked when the conversation started with people adding in some ways to
>> possibly resolve things.  Ideas are great. Pointing fingers is divisive.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 07, 2022 10:28 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - here I go again...
>>
>>
>>
>> After republicans take office the police, firefighters, libraries and
>> schools get defunded/reduced, I'm on a local fireboard, experinced it
>> happen several times.  Don't complain to me about who's doing the defunding.
>>
>> On 6/6/22 11:05, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> There has to be a decision made on what we want from police.
>>
>> You cant demand they shoot white shooters, but gently caress any other
>> ethnicity.
>>
>> You cant demand police be demilitarized at the same time you demand they
>> be ready to engage a heavily armed operator at a split second notice
>>
>> you cant demand police protect schools at all times while
>> simultaneously eliminating 50 percent of the school resource officers.
>>
>> You cant demand the school resource officers be a soft presence while you
>> also want them shooting perps in the face.
>>
>> You cant do any of this at all while also defunding the police.
>>
>>
>>
>> Military is ready because theyre always ready, police are never ready
>> because theyre always in sensitivty classes, or being arrested for doing
>> their job because the media said so.
>>
>>
>>
>> Firefightrs are no more capable of handling these situations than police,
>> theyre all people
>>
>>
>>
>> Theres also insurability. Scene safety if paramount in all Emergency
>> services. Firefighters dont run into active petrochemical fires the same as
>> they would run into a residential structure fire. There is a line in which
>> the insurance companies (and taxpayers) will not tolerate the risk. When
>> monday morning quarterbacking gives way to tuesday morning reality, the
>> demands will seem much less realistic
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I say we just burn it all. pick any longitudinal point and light her up.
>> May only the strongest and fastest survive
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2022 at 12:51 PM castarritt  wrote:
>>
>> We've neutered the police so effectively they can't do the job anymore.
>> We need terminator robots.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2022 at 12:49 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I have been shot at, but never been in combat.  I don’t carry a weapon
>> because I don’t want that option.  That option is one of the initial
>> starting conditions of a higher order ordinary differential equation.
>>
>> I prefer a linear equation.
>>
>>
>>
>> If a firefighter is armored such that they can probably survive a
>> gunshot, that would steer

Re: [AFMUG] OT - here I go again...

[castarritt]

We've neutered the police so effectively they can't do the job anymore.  We
need terminator robots.

On Mon, Jun 6, 2022 at 12:49 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I have been shot at, but never been in combat.  I don’t carry a weapon
> because I don’t want that option.  That option is one of the initial
> starting conditions of a higher order ordinary differential equation.
> I prefer a linear equation.
>
> If a firefighter is armored such that they can probably survive a gunshot,
> that would steer their thinking toward rescue over taking out the shooter.
> Let the cops do that.
>
> *From:* Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Monday, June 6, 2022 11:09 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - here I go again...
>
> True, if they're properly trained and doing their job it would be more
> effective.
>
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2022 at 12:05 PM Robert  wrote:
>
>> There was also the shooting down in the south, where they had a school
>> "police" officer who stood back and did nothing.   That's not necessarily a
>> solution either.
>>
>> On 6/6/22 9:58 AM, Jason McKemie wrote:
>>
>> Seems like we should just be giving additional funding to police
>> departments so that they can have a regular presence at schools.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2022 at 11:08 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I may regret posting this but I had a thought.
>>>
>>> How about we let the fire department handle active shooters at schools.
>>> They know how to get there fast.  They are ready to go at an instants
>>> notice.
>>> They know how to breach any building and rescue survivors.
>>> They have heavy protective gear on, just add a layer of kevlar.
>>> Or give them extra/different gear they can don on the way to the
>>> incident.
>>> They sure as hell don’t stand around outside discussing jurisdiction and
>>> strategy.
>>> They care more about rescue than they do about their own lives.
>>> --
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>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Weird IP issue

[castarritt]

If it's not something obvious with routing or firewall, my next step would
be to look at torch and/or packet captures to narrow it down.

On Wed, May 4, 2022 at 3:34 PM  wrote:

> Fair enough, but traffic through the router would be forward chain.  Input
> chain only affects traffic destined for the router itself.
> I agree it's an easy thing to check.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Larry Smith
> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2022 4:17 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Weird IP issue
>
>
> Yes, but it ends with an INPUT "drop all" entry.
> Agree it does not "appear" to be anything in the firewall, but only takes
> a few seconds to test and prove one way or the other.
>
> --
> Larry Smith
> lesm...@ecsis.net
>
> On Wed May 4 2022 14:58, Christopher Tyler wrote:
> > That is the export of the entire firewall on that router, there are no
> > forward, nat or mangle rules, therefore there shouldn't be anything
> > keeping the data from getting to/from anything, let alone blocking all
> > but one IP address in the IP range.
> >
> > It's a /29 block, ip is x.x.x.x/29 on the router interface to the
> > switch,
> > /29 in OSPF network as well.
> >
> > This is why I'm completely stumped, everything looks fine. We're going
> > to roll that router back tonight to 7.1.5 the "long term" version to
> > see if that does anything.
> >
> > --
> > Christopher Tyler
> > Senior Network Engineer
> > MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE
> >
> > Total Highspeed Internet Solutions
> > 1091 W. Kathryn Street
> > Nixa, MO 65714
> > (417) 851-1107 x. 9002
> > www.totalhighspeed.com
> >
> > This institution is an equal opportunity provider and employer.
> > Esta institución es un proveedor de servicios con igualdad de
> > oportunidades.
> >
> > - Original Message -
> >
> > > From: "Josh Luthman" 
> > > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2022 11:39:22 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Weird IP issue
> > >
> > > Input/output aren't relevant for forward traffic.
> > >
> > > Are your subnets right everywhere?
> > >
> > > On Wed, May 4, 2022 at 12:20 PM Christopher Tyler < [
> > > mailto:ch...@totalhighspeed.net | ch...@totalhighspeed.net ] > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Very minimal, really just basic input rules, nothing that would
> > > block the IP addresses from getting through. No NAT or Mangle rules on
> this router.
> > >
> > > /ip firewall filter
> > > add action=accept chain=input comment="ACCEPT ESTABLISHED/RELATED" \
> > > connection-state=established,related
> > > add action=accept chain=input comment="ACCEPT OSPF" protocol=ospf
> > > add action=accept chain=input comment="ACCEPT ICMP (ping)"
> > > protocol=icmp add action=accept chain=input comment="ACCEPT SNMP"
> > > dst-port=160-161 protocol=\ udp add action=accept chain=input
> > > comment="ACCEPT DHCP" dst-port=67 protocol=udp add action=accept
> > > chain=input comment="Allow MTIK Bandwidth Test" dst-port=\ 2000-3000
> > > protocol=tcp add action=accept chain=input comment="Allow MTIK
> > > Bandwidth Test"
> > > dst-port=\ 2000-3000 protocol=udp
> > > add action=accept chain=input dst-port=5678 protocol=tcp add
> > > action=accept chain=input comment="ACCEPT THIS Mgmt"
> > > src-address-list=\ THIS_ADMIN
> > > add action=accept chain=output comment="ACCEPT ALL OUTBOUND"
> > > add action=drop chain=input comment="DROP ALL OTHER INPUT"
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Christopher Tyler
> > > Senior Network Engineer
> > > MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE
> > >
> > > Total Highspeed Internet Solutions
> > > 1091 W. Kathryn Street
> > > Nixa, MO 65714
> > > (417) 851-1107 x. 9002
> > > [ http://www.totalhighspeed.com/ | www.totalhighspeed.com ]
> > >
> > > This institution is an equal opportunity provider and employer.
> > > Esta institución es un proveedor de servicios con igualdad de
> > > oportunidades.
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > >
> > >> From: "Josh Luthman" < [ mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com |
> > >> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com ] >
> > >> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < [ mailto:af@af.afmug.com |
> > >> af@af.afmug.com ] >
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2022 11:12:55 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Weird IP issue
> > >>
> > >> Firewall filter rules?
> > >>
> > >> Double check the gateway and subnet on the server.
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, May 4, 2022 at 11:17 AM Christopher Tyler < [
> > >> mailto: [ mailto:ch...@totalhighspeed.net |
> > >> ch...@totalhighspeed.net ] | [ mailto:ch...@totalhighspeed.net |
> > >> ch...@totalhighspeed.net ] ] >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> We have one of the new Mikrotik CCR2216-1G-12XS-2XQ routers running
> > >> RouterOS 7.2.1 with a Mikrotik switch (running 6.44.3) hanging off
> > >> of it. I have two servers on that switch both in the the same
> > >> public IP block. I can ping both servers from the router, and they
> > >> can ping each other. One server is globally reachable and the other
> > >> is not reachable other than from the router or 

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium Timing

[castarritt]

How does channel width affect timing?

On Wed, May 4, 2022 at 7:39 AM  wrote:

> Yes, those all match.  The new challenge is comparing different channel
> sizes.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Carl Peterson
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 03, 2022 11:14 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Cambium Timing
>
>
>
> We still have our cambium network timed as if it were collocated with
> legacy 100 gear but the 100 gear is long gone so I'm looking to re-time
> everything.
>
>
>
> Not finding colocation info about 450M, 450, 450i.  Is timing all the same
> on them?  Seems to be but I haven't done this in over a decade.
>
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] -48vdc site

[castarritt]

I asked this list the same thing a while back and the answer was Meanwell
RSD-500C-48.  You can probably get away with a lower power rating than the
500 watt I chose if you are only powering a 'tik and not a pile of Cambium
radios like I was.

On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 1:48 PM Christopher Tyler 
wrote:

> Need some help from the smarter than me electrical engineers here on the
> list...
>
> What is the best way to power a Mikrotik router that takes +18-56vdc from
> -48vdc source? Providing part numbers or model numbers would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> We tried the redneck engineering approach of just reversing the polarity
> and it popped the fuse, nice little light show, but ultimately unproductive.
>
> --
> Christopher Tyler
> Senior Network Engineer
> MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE
>
> Total Highspeed Internet Solutions
> 1091 W. Kathryn Street
> Nixa, MO 65714
> (417) 851-1107 x. 9002
> www.totalhighspeed.com
>
> This institution is an equal opportunity provider and employer.
> Esta institución es un proveedor de servicios con igualdad de
> oportunidades.
>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] managed MUX?

[castarritt]

If you want to see all wavelengths, you connect it to an optical
spectrum analyzer.

On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 2:54 PM  wrote:

> Ok, so it says the monitor port gives you an x% split (from 1%-5%) of the
> light on each wavelength.  But what could I connect to the monitor port if
> I wanted to be able to remotely track received signal level on each
> wavelength?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Carl Peterson
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 16, 2022 2:43 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] managed MUX?
>
>
>
> Yes.  Even passive gear can have a monitor port.
> https://www.fs.com/products/33485.html
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 1:01 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
> Roadm?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2022, 10:46 AM  wrote:
>
> When people sell wavelengths as a service, how do you monitor that?  Is
> there something like a “managed” mux that lets you see light levels on each
> wavelength?
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
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>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Carl Peterson
>
> *PORT NETWORKS*
>
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>
> Baltimore, MD 21202
>
> (410) 637-3707
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] The weirdest coincidence

[castarritt]

There are rumors that I might on occasion reboot the 450 AP when I mean to
reboot an SM, but nothing proven...  I also came this >< close to rebooting
core NAT router once before I realized the winbox session I was looking at
wasn't the one I had open for that customer's managed wi-fi router.

On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 2:22 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Sounds like maybe you send me an address and maybe a noob takes a few
> weeks off to let a knee injury heal. Just sayin, noobs are clumsy
>
> On Tue, Feb 22, 2022, 1:21 PM Colin Stanners  wrote:
>
>> That brings up big questions of why the noob thought they'd have
>> permission to do that, and why someone gave them a password with AP control
>> access.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 12:23 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> Nevermind.  Some noob was shutting off Aps trying to disable users.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com 
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 22, 2022 1:07 PM
>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>>> *Subject:* The weirdest coincidence
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I just had five different PMP450 AP’s go down at the same time at five
>>> different towers.  In all cases the switch reports link, but I get zero Rx
>>> traffic.  Power cycle doesn’t bring any of them back up.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> WTF just happened?  Some kind of bug?
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

[castarritt]

It is a decent amount of air that needs to be exchanged, but in a passive
house, it is done through a heat exchanger to recover some of the heat
being exhausted rather than just letting it leak out various openings.

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 3:34 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> The rate at which outdoor air replaces indoor air is described as the air
> exchange rate.  ASHRAE  (formerly called the American Society of Heating,
> Refrigerating and Air-Conditioning Engineers) recommends (in its Standard
> 62.2-2016, *"Ventilation and Acceptable Indoor Air Quality in Residential
> Buildings"*) that homes receive 0.35 air changes per hour  but not less
> than 15 cubic feet of air per minute (cfm) per person. as the minimum
> ventilation rates in residential buildings in order to provide IAQ that is
> acceptable to human occupants and that minimizes adverse health effects.
> ASHRAE also suggests intermittent exhaust capacities for kitchens and
> bathroom exhaust to help control pollutant levels and moisture in those
> rooms. ASHRAE also notes that "dwellings with tight enclosures may require
> supplemental ventilation supply for fuel-burning appliances, including
> fireplaces and mechanically exhausted appliances.
>
> That is a lot of air, sounds like a large open window.  not less than 15
> cubic feet per person.  I don't much care for the smell of chip-board,
> gives me a headache and yet that's all these freaky new houses are made of.
> On 1/20/22 12:51, castarritt wrote:
>
> These days, people building for extreme energy efficiency will seal the
> building envelope as much as possible, and then install a heat recovery
> ventilation system.
>
> On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 2:26 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>
>> I recall reading about houses requiring so many air changes per hour
>> before they become unhealthy to live in.  This article was written many
>> years/decades ago.  I wonder if the standards for a healthy house has
>> changed?
>> On 1/20/22 09:54, Andy Trimmell wrote:
>>
>> My dad was just talking about walls like this and we’re in Indiana. I
>> don’t know where he heard it from but the guy did it about 20 years ago
>> here. He said he had to open the door because they were running out of
>> oxygen  LOL
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:46 PM
>> *To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
>>
>>
>>
>> Double walls, so really there are three cavities.  Two walls with an air
>> space between them.  Insulation and vapor barrier on the outer and inner
>> wall with triple glazed windows.  I read a report on these homes being
>> built in Canada.  They didn’t need much heat.
>>
>>
>>
>> Chuck McCown
>> McCown Technology Corporation
>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>> 801-250-9503
>> 435-830-4306 cell
>> www.mccowntech.com
>> www.microtrench-blades.com
>> www.terabitnetworks.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:32 AM
>>
>> *To:* ch...@go-mtc.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>
>> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
>>
>>
>>
>> I’ve wondered how long firewood wood really last if everyone was trying
>> to use it.  Wasn’t there a firewood crisis in the 19th century before
>> they started using coal for everything?
>>
>> I think reliance on firewood in the apocalypse comes with an implicit
>> assumption that everybody else died. If they haven’t died yet then expect
>> competition.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don’t worry too much about water.  You can’t go anywhere in the
>> Northeast without tripping over a stream or a spring.  If the spring water
>> is contaminated then so is the well water and you’re screwed either way.
>>
>>
>>
>> How much is triple insulation?  Does that mean R57 in the walls instead
>> of R19?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ch...@go-mtc.com  
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:09 PM
>> *To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>  
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
>>
>>
>>
>> Triple insulated home can be heated by only the bodies inside.
>>
>> Most areas (other than where I live) there may be wood to burn.  You
>> could always use a parabolic solar cooker for cooking.
>>
>> Solar hydronic.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

[castarritt]

These days, people building for extreme energy efficiency will seal the
building envelope as much as possible, and then install a heat recovery
ventilation system.

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 2:26 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> I recall reading about houses requiring so many air changes per hour
> before they become unhealthy to live in.  This article was written many
> years/decades ago.  I wonder if the standards for a healthy house has
> changed?
> On 1/20/22 09:54, Andy Trimmell wrote:
>
> My dad was just talking about walls like this and we’re in Indiana. I
> don’t know where he heard it from but the guy did it about 20 years ago
> here. He said he had to open the door because they were running out of
> oxygen  LOL
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:46 PM
> *To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
>
>
>
> Double walls, so really there are three cavities.  Two walls with an air
> space between them.  Insulation and vapor barrier on the outer and inner
> wall with triple glazed windows.  I read a report on these homes being
> built in Canada.  They didn’t need much heat.
>
>
>
> Chuck McCown
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503
> 435-830-4306 cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench-blades.com
> www.terabitnetworks.com
>
>
>
> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:32 AM
>
> *To:* ch...@go-mtc.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
>
>
>
> I’ve wondered how long firewood wood really last if everyone was trying to
> use it.  Wasn’t there a firewood crisis in the 19th century before they
> started using coal for everything?
>
> I think reliance on firewood in the apocalypse comes with an implicit
> assumption that everybody else died. If they haven’t died yet then expect
> competition.
>
>
>
> I don’t worry too much about water.  You can’t go anywhere in the
> Northeast without tripping over a stream or a spring.  If the spring water
> is contaminated then so is the well water and you’re screwed either way.
>
>
>
> How much is triple insulation?  Does that mean R57 in the walls instead of
> R19?
>
>
>
> *From:* ch...@go-mtc.com  
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:09 PM
> *To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
>
>
>
> Triple insulated home can be heated by only the bodies inside.
>
> Most areas (other than where I live) there may be wood to burn.  You could
> always use a parabolic solar cooker for cooking.
>
> Solar hydronic.  Solar electric.  Water is the huge thing.  Need to pump a
> well.
>
>
>
> I think move to the tropics where you can eat off the land/sea and run
> around naked all the time.  That is a good solution to the end of the
> world.
>
>
>
> Not much of a prepper anymore.  Too old I guess.  Plus I have an odd
> condition where I don’t get hungry.  So I could starve to death without
> much suffering.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 9:44 AM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>
> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
>
>
>
> Maybe it’s a matter of being self-reliant until your solar panels break vs
> being self-reliant until your fuel runs out.  Years vs months.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:47 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
>
>
>
> That said, the last time I checked, propane and wood pellets cost half
> that of electricity for heating.  And natural gas was half that again.  So
> natural gas vs electric heat pump for heating would probably be the same
> energy cost.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 8:40 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
>
>
>
> 3.41 BTU per watt for resistive heating.  Heat pump gives you way more
> heat per watt.  That is why most of the electric cars have gone to heat
> pumps for the heater.  The heat pump Tesla will run the heater for 36 hours
> and still leave you with enough battery to get home in many cases.
>
>
>
> Chuck McCown
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503
> 435-830-4306 cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench-blades.com
> www.terabitnetworks.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Robert
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 7:11 AM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
>
>
>
> The $800 mini-splits I am looking at put 

Re: [AFMUG] OT breaking lent

[castarritt]

Rittenhouse, Sandmann Agree To Share Joint Custody Of CNN
- The Babylon Bee

On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 4:44 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> constitutionally a baby can carry a gun, literally that simple.
>
> Theres a perfect example going on this moment in kenosha of you needing to
> put your money where your mouth is
>
> Due to the extended presence of constitutionally affirmed actions (freedom
> of assembly) EMS response is delayed, specifically to the courthouse area.
> A second person just had a seizure. There was a delay in EMS providing care
> and transport. According to your argument, each person there is responsible
> for the delay in care and should be held accountable for any negative
> outcome for the individual doing the floppy crappie.
>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 4:37 PM Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm speaking to the constitutional argument, not this case.
>>
>> On Friday, November 19, 2021, Mathew Howard  wrote:
>>
>>> It is here in Wisconsin, which is what matters in this case.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 4:26 PM Jason McKemie <
>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>
 Open carry isn't legal here as far as I know...

 On Friday, November 19, 2021, Steve Jones 
 wrote:

> so you believe that your constitutionally re-affirmed rights should be
> infringed because others may misbehave? interesting take. The simps
> response is always "but you cant yell fire in a theater" thats a direct
> action, not a simple presence of right and very simplike and well trained
> response thats as effective as viagra in a fish tank.
>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 4:18 PM Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> I couldn't agree more. I think when you walk around in a potentially
>> volatile situation (or really any public situation) with a loaded assault
>> rifle in-hand, you should be held responsible for what happens 
>> thereafter.
>>
>> On Friday, November 19, 2021, Bill Prince 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> No comments on the riots or lack thereof, but it seems to me that
>>> the young twerp crossed state lines with a semi-automatic to be the
>>> self-appointed "police", and as a result a couple of people died. If 
>>> said
>>> young twerp had stayed home and watched Chuck Norris on TV, maybe no one
>>> would have died, and maybe a few windows might have been broken.
>>>
>>> I do not hold windows and lives as equivalent.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 11/19/2021 11:07 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>>
>>> Forgive me, but I want to make this comment:
>>>
>>> (I hope I don’t regret this)
>>>
>>> The news media seem heartbroken that there are not riots in
>>> Wisconsin.
>>>
>>> Using lots of phrases like: “pretty calm – AT THE MOMENT”.
>>> Or “we are hunkered down in a safe place, prepared for violence”.
>>> Or “Maybe there is a small number that want to get violent”
>>> It appears to be calm there.  I am hopeful people are sick of
>>> riots.
>>> But the media are certainly not sick of them.
>>>
>>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] OT breaking lent

[castarritt]

I'm disappointed in you Steve; how could you miss that the Ghislaine
Maxwell trial is happening at the same time?

On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 2:57 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> BLM didnt come today, something was told to the media about a lack of
> security.
> I think that was the legit arm of BLM, the political activist side.
> They saw a lack of visible troops and know theyre about one more brick
> through a window from losing their voice (and cash flow)
> This really disappointed every media outfit of a particular slant. you
> could hear the disappointment in their voice.
>
> The media is irritated that the trial was in november. Cold rocks are
> harder to throw. And this particular verdict would have been guaranteed to
> drive gunfights in the street. I wouldnt be surprised if MSNBC doesnt file
> a suit against the prosecutor for not bringing this to trial in better
> weather.
>
> It just sucks that 2 people had to die and guy become a cripple to remind
> people to stay in their own lane. Hopefully this will give people a winter
> to reflect on the damage the media narrative does.
>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 1:30 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> Or there are just fewer people at higher latitudes.
>>
>> On 11/19/2021 1:20 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> I have often wondered about a graph showing crime versus latitude.  Are
>> colder areas more peaceful?
>>
>> *From:* Nate Burke
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 19, 2021 12:18 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT breaking lent
>>
>> It's also 40 degrees outside, people rage level also is affected by their
>> level of comfort.
>>
>> Drive through Gary on a winters night when it's -20 and it's probably one
>> of the safest places.  (note- I've Done this, didn't see a single person
>> outside)
>>
>> On 11/19/2021 1:07 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> Forgive me, but I want to make this comment:
>>
>> (I hope I don’t regret this)
>>
>> The news media seem heartbroken that there are not riots in Wisconsin.
>>
>> Using lots of phrases like: “pretty calm – AT THE MOMENT”.
>> Or “we are hunkered down in a safe place, prepared for violence”.
>> Or “Maybe there is a small number that want to get violent”
>> It appears to be calm there.  I am hopeful people are sick of riots.
>> But the media are certainly not sick of them.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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[AFMUG] Tool belts

[castarritt]

Our installers are wearing out their tool belts regularly, and before
buying more of the same, or forking out for more expensive equipment that
might not last any longer, I was wondering if any of you have
recommendations.
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Re: [AFMUG] Never seen this before

[castarritt]

Luckily, our local competitor will be jamming the fuck out of that signal
if they keep running their APs like they have been.

On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 2:29 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Yup. Special frequency to activate the Bill Gates chip.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 10/22/2021 12:23 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> It was a test of the covid vaccine activation system.
>
> *From:* Darren Shea
> *Sent:* Friday, October 22, 2021 1:19 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Never seen this before
>
>
> Over near Austin, we saw several of our PMP450 APs on DFS frequencies
> going nuts on 10/20, as well.
>
>
>
> Sunspots? Aliens? I have no idea…
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 21, 2021 6:21 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Never seen this before
>
>
>
> So i installed one AP and three remote Ubiquti radios for small SCADA
> system in Fort Hancock, Texas a few months ago.
>
> Used a DFS channel to avoid all the noise from three wireless ISPs in
> area.  No issues until yesterday when all three remote sites lost
> connection.   Lasted about 15 minutes and everything came back fine...this
> morning same thing...i was in Tornillo so close enough for me to drive to
> Fort Hancock quickly...told them not to touch anything or reboot AP.
>
> When i got there links had been up for a few minuteslogged in and was
> watching all sites...
>
> Then boom, AP lost connection with radios ..saw this DFS Radar message on
> dashboardhad never seen one...nearest airport is small one in Fabens...
>
> Then i asked if they had seen any Border Patrol trucks nearby...they said
> , yes by water ...marked and unmarked ...the latter has a telescoping
> system with long range thermal cameras and other goodies .
>
> I switched to 5160 MHz with 10MHz wide channel and monitored it for severa
> hours...no issues...
>
> Has anyone see this before?
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Alkaline Batteries

[castarritt]

If you are buying 20+ AAs a week and/or looking at buying multiple sets of
AA Eneloop Pros and charging stations, you might want to look at
rechargeable mics with something like an 18650 built in instead.

On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 3:57 PM Robert Bain via AF  wrote:

> I am have trouble post to the group,
> I looking for anyone with experience in the Unlicensed White Space Device
> Operations. Please contact me
> Thank you
>
>
>
> Robert Bain
> 10102 224th Street East
> Unit 1090
> Graham,Washington 98338
> Cell 253-219-2890
> bai...@yahoo.com
>
>
> On Monday, October 4, 2021, 01:38:01 PM PDT, Bill Prince <
> part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> The one we have is a "MAHA MH-C800S eight cell AA/AAA quick batttery
> charger"
> (https://www.ebay.com/itm/333148128470?chn=ps=1=1=711-213727-13078-0=2=333148128470=4580496732614416=c418233788=1230353745471221=pla-4580496732614416=9300542=51291=7f2c5e3a4ba515ebf3633f612ec791fe
>
> <
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/333148128470?chn=ps=1=1=711-213727-13078-0=2=333148128470=4580496732614416=c418233788=1230353745471221=pla-4580496732614416=9300542=51291=7f2c5e3a4ba515ebf3633f612ec791fe
> >}
>
> Each position will take either a AA or a AAA battery, and is
> individually monitored. It also has a "slow mode" where you can gently
> charge them instead of quick charge. The batteries will last longer if
> you don't stress them out with rapid charging.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 10/4/2021 1:19 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
> > Is the 8 bay charger a Panasonic charger, or 3rd party?  All I'm
> > finding from Panasonic are the 4 port chargers.  Do they make 20 or 30
> > slot chargers?
> >
> > On 10/4/2021 3:16 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> >> We have a smart charger with slots for 8 batteries, and each battery
> >> is charged individually. It knows when they are charged, and has an
> >> indicator that says so.
> >>
> >>
> >> bp
> >> 
> >>
> >> On 10/4/2021 1:13 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
> >>> Is there a limit to how long they can stay in the charger?  Like
> >>> could we put them in the charger whenever they're not in use so
> >>> they'll always be full?
> >>>
> >>> On 10/4/2021 3:04 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>  We have a half dozen or so trail cams for spotting wildlife around
>  our property.  They all take between 8 and 12 AA batteries.
> 
>  Regular alkaline AA batteries do OK, but have to be tossed after 3
>  months or so.
> 
>  So we have been using NiMH batteries, which are rechargable. They
>  last as long or longer than the alkaline and can be recharged
>  hundreds of times.
> 
>  We have learned a few things about the NiMH vs alkaline.
> 
>  First, and possibly the most important is that NiMH run at a
>  nominal 1.2 volts, while alkaline run at a nominal 1.5 volts. Some
>  devices just won't tolerate the lower voltage, so you have to test
>  them to see how they work. In the favor of NiMH batteries, the
>  voltage holds longer and does not go below 1.2 volts until they are
>  about done. Alkaline OTOH will continuously degrade from their
>  nominal voltage.
> 
>  Second, don't get just any NiMH batteries, get Panasonic Eneloop
>  Pro (black). They last the longest, and will hold a charge longer
>  while sitting on the shelf.
> 
>  Finally, the NiMH "AA" batteries are a tiny bit larger diameter
>  than alkaline. Most devices are OK, but we have a few where
>  shoe-horning the NiMH into the same space is a bit of a challenge.
> 
>  Also, as another alternative, you might look at Lithium
>  (non-rechargable) batteries. They are the same size and voltage as
>  alkaline, but will last 5-10 times longer. They are also the most
>  expensive.
> 
> 
>  bp
>  
> 
>  On 10/4/2021 12:47 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
> > At Church we use a some wireless microphones, they all use 2 AA
> > batteries.  There is a battery indicator on the units, but
> > Invariably, they will start to alarm in the middle of using them.
> > I'm pretty sure the indicator is logarithmic, like my gas gauge,
> > so it will spend %75 of the time reporting full, and then quickly
> > fail after that.  So I'm thinking about just mandating that all
> > batteries are replaced at the beginning of each use.  We're not
> > talking about a ton, ~20 batteries per week.
> >
> > How good are Rechargeable AA batteries, It's been years since I've
> > last used them, would they be worth looking into?  Does anybody
> > take half used alkaline batteries and do anything with them other
> > than throwing them out?
> >
> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Surge protector on tower

[castarritt]

We do the double surge suppressor thing on our Cambium APs as well.  Still
get AP failures, but those are almost all 450Ms that get water in them.  Of
course, they would all fail after the 1yr warranty, but then Cambium
extended it to 3yrs on newer units; great new, right?  Weust had another
get water in it inside the 3yr period, and now they are saying water damage
voids warranty.  I ask them how it's our fault the unit's weather proofing
failed, and after waiting months for a response on the ticket, I get a copy
paste response of the exact same "water damage voids warranty" line from
before... Not happy.

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 10:48 AM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:

> For most of our Cambium 450 and 820 gear we install the surge suppressors
> at the top and some type of surge suppressor at the bottom.   The upper is
> usually the Cambium spec unit.   The lower unit may be Cambium, Chuck’s
> surge suppressors, or where we are using CTM’s it's the internal surge
> suppression.
>
> While I have the same concerns about the SS failing and requiring an extra
> climb we have had enough bad experiences with AP failures that we install
> the tower top surge suppression.
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Sep 27, 2021, at 9:44 AM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> A lot of installation guides tell you to put a surge protector at the
> bottom and top end of a cable going up a tower.  Does anyone here actually
> do that?
>
> Every installation I’ve seen in person has only had them on the bottom.
>   I think the fears people have are the SS housing leaking up or otherwise
> having to climb for a problem with the SS.
>
> -Adam
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Sharing internet connection between buildings

[castarritt]

Our policy is that the most bulletproof solution is to sell a second
service to the other house.

On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 12:39 PM Jay Weekley 
wrote:

> The first location is a house with internet and the second location
> needs it.  It's not the only way to get the second location on line.
> I'm just looking for the most bullet proof solution that will minimize
> support calls.
>
> Josh Luthman wrote:
> > That's kind of a basic networking question, what's the overall
> > topology look like?  Does this second building already have internet
> > and you're back feeding?  Is this fiber connection between the two
> > buildings the only way the second building gets online?
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 12:57 PM Jay Weekley
> > mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:
> >
> > It's going to be connected to a switch on both ends. Will that be
> > a problem?
> >
> > Bill Prince wrote:
> > > Ethernet has no ground reference. It's a differential signal. If
> > > you're using shielded cable, only ground one end (or neither
> > end), and
> > > you'll be fine.
> > >
> > >
> > > bp
> > > 
> > >
> > > On 8/25/2021 8:53 AM, Jay Weekley wrote:
> > >> I've got a client that needs a network line installed from their
> > >> house to another building but they are on separate power
> > meters.  I
> > >> understand that running a cable between two different ground
> > points
> > >> is not advisable.  Is there a way around this?  A wireless link
> > isn't
> > >> an option at this point.
> > >
> >
> > --
> > *Jay Weekley*
> > *Cyber Broadband
> > *
> >
> > --
> > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> > https://www.avg.com
> >
> >
> > --
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> >
> >
> >
>
> --
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> *
>
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[AFMUG] Need to replace CCR1072 being used for NAT

[castarritt]

We have had a CCR1072 doing all our NAT for years, but lately it has been
unstable.  Obviously, we can't just turn off connection tracking, so it
looks like we will be replacing it.  We are looking at switching to a CHR
solution, but we don't know what kind of hardware would be ideal, or how
performance would compare to a CCR.  We are pushing ~6.5g of traffic at
peak, and CPU usage on the 1072 tops out around 25-30%.

Maxxwave has their "Vengeance 3" with an 8-core 9900k CPU, or we could get
a used R630 with 2x E5-2698V4 20-core CPUs for about the same money.  The
9900k would be faster for single-threaded processes, but the server would
have way more cores and cache.
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Re: [AFMUG] Solar and shade for AE Fiber Cabinet

[castarritt]

Chuck, is there a specific paint you used to shield against solar
radiation?  I rolled a gallon of white elastomeric roof coating from home
depot onto one of our DDB boxes, and while it did drop the temp slightly,
the results weren't that impressive.  I think the issue with our test is we
chose a site that has ~1.2kW of power draw, so most of the heat was likely
from the equipment in the box rather than direct sunlight.

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 1:21 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> 20+ years ago, I set up 4 identical outdoor enclosures.  Temp telemetry.
> Some live load, don’t remember the details.  They were about 24” cubes.
> All started out as gray.  Tried sun shields, exterior insulation, vents,
> fans, peltier cooling modules.  Silver paint, white paint.  The
> overwhelming #1 thing that lowered temps was the satellite white paint.  By
> a long stretch.  Then filtered powered vents.  Silver paint was worse than
> gray.  I wonder if the railroad still used silver.  Sun shades did little
> to help if the box was satellite white.  Interior styrofoam insulation
> helped a bit, not much, but was cheap and easy to add to the white paint.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 2, 2021, at 11:39 AM, Sterling Jacobson 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Super hot out here in Utah.
>
>
>
> My fiber cabinets running Active switches are getting harder to maintain
> and AC units on the side of the cabinets are starting to fail faster.
>
>
>
> I’ve had the thought of shading them with a permanent four post structure
> and a reflective white painted cover to shade them from the southern sun
> exposure.
>
>
>
> Then I thought, well, maybe it might be interesting to “shade” the cabinet
> with solar panels as well.
>
>
>
> Is anyone doing this?
>
>
>
> The AE cabinets all have Alpha FXM 15 or 20A units running the UPS to a
> string of four 12v AGM batteries.
>
>
>
> I do have limited rack space in some of these available since the
> batteries sit in a slide out section below.
>
>
>
> Haven’t done solar in like a decade since I had remote WISP type sites.
>
>
>
> Is this doable to offset power costs and also get the temp down for the
> cabinet?
>
>
>
> Or is it just a huge time suck and money pit for no real return?
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Re: [AFMUG] -48v DC power and Packetflux Rack Injector for various Cambium radios

[castarritt]

So RSD-500C-48 then?

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 1:06 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I was gonna say the same thing.  RSD also doesn't have a cooling
> fanone less thing to fail.
>
> In either case get a few #6 bolts (or similar size metric) and you can
> mount them to a 1U blank.
>
>
> On 7/2/2021 1:54 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> Do not use the "SD" series.  Look for the RSD series instead.  The SD
> series has issues with current inrush.
>
> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 1:52 PM castarritt  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the info.  I did check the chassis ground vs dc return on my
>> dragonwave radios, and they weren't bonded.  I'll check with dwave to see
>> if they are cool with 0v input and +48v return.  If so, we will buy +48v DC
>> systems in the future.
>>
>> For the -48v ICT we already have, I was looking at this Meanwell isolated
>> DC-DC converter; do you think it would work?
>>
>>
>> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MEAN-WELL/SD-500L-48?qs=umBTOZqEewis66%252Betk6pyQ%3D%3D
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 12:18 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>
>>> Yes you can put an isolated 48v dc to DC supply to isolate -48 from +48
>>> (a meanwell brand would work) needs to be an isolated converter
>>>
>>> Also fyi that most of the '-48' equipment I've tested hasn't had a
>>> chassis reference to either of the DC input terminals, so thus far I've ran
>>> as +48 on everything.
>>>
>>> 48v is 48v, difference between -48 and +48 being which output terminal
>>> may be bounded to chassis ground.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021, 9:33 AM castarritt  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tushar wants me to figure out a good solution for our first site to be
>>>> converted to DC power.
>>>>
>>>> APs I want to power through a rack injector are:
>>>> 3x 450M 5Ghz
>>>> 2x 450i 5Ghz
>>>> 3x 450 5Ghz
>>>> 5x ePMP force200 for ptp customers
>>>>
>>>> The force200s don't use sync, but I would like all the others to have
>>>> sync over power.
>>>>
>>>> Currently we have an ICT-IP-BMMD -48v shelf and one of their isolated
>>>> 48v to 24v converters.
>>>>
>>>> Router is an MT CCR converted to -48v with their DC power supplies.
>>>> Switch is a CRS that will be wired to run off the ICT +24v converter.  We
>>>> also have 6x dwave backhauls that will all be fine with -48v.
>>>>
>>>> Problem is, without a +48v source, I can't figure out a way to power
>>>> all 13 radios through a single rack injector without giving up sync via
>>>> power on the 450i APs.  Is there an easy way to get +48v off of either the
>>>> -48v or +24v ICT supplies, or should I just plan on adding a second rack
>>>> injector?
>>>> --
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>>>>
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>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] -48v DC power and Packetflux Rack Injector for various Cambium radios

[castarritt]

Thanks for the info.  I did check the chassis ground vs dc return on my
dragonwave radios, and they weren't bonded.  I'll check with dwave to see
if they are cool with 0v input and +48v return.  If so, we will buy +48v DC
systems in the future.

For the -48v ICT we already have, I was looking at this Meanwell isolated
DC-DC converter; do you think it would work?

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MEAN-WELL/SD-500L-48?qs=umBTOZqEewis66%252Betk6pyQ%3D%3D

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 12:18 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> Yes you can put an isolated 48v dc to DC supply to isolate -48 from +48 (a
> meanwell brand would work) needs to be an isolated converter
>
> Also fyi that most of the '-48' equipment I've tested hasn't had a chassis
> reference to either of the DC input terminals, so thus far I've ran as +48
> on everything.
>
> 48v is 48v, difference between -48 and +48 being which output terminal may
> be bounded to chassis ground.
>
> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021, 9:33 AM castarritt  wrote:
>
>> Tushar wants me to figure out a good solution for our first site to be
>> converted to DC power.
>>
>> APs I want to power through a rack injector are:
>> 3x 450M 5Ghz
>> 2x 450i 5Ghz
>> 3x 450 5Ghz
>> 5x ePMP force200 for ptp customers
>>
>> The force200s don't use sync, but I would like all the others to have
>> sync over power.
>>
>> Currently we have an ICT-IP-BMMD -48v shelf and one of their isolated 48v
>> to 24v converters.
>>
>> Router is an MT CCR converted to -48v with their DC power supplies.
>> Switch is a CRS that will be wired to run off the ICT +24v converter.  We
>> also have 6x dwave backhauls that will all be fine with -48v.
>>
>> Problem is, without a +48v source, I can't figure out a way to power all
>> 13 radios through a single rack injector without giving up sync via power
>> on the 450i APs.  Is there an easy way to get +48v off of either the -48v
>> or +24v ICT supplies, or should I just plan on adding a second rack
>> injector?
>> --
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[AFMUG] -48v DC power and Packetflux Rack Injector for various Cambium radios

[castarritt]

Tushar wants me to figure out a good solution for our first site to be
converted to DC power.

APs I want to power through a rack injector are:
3x 450M 5Ghz
2x 450i 5Ghz
3x 450 5Ghz
5x ePMP force200 for ptp customers

The force200s don't use sync, but I would like all the others to have sync
over power.

Currently we have an ICT-IP-BMMD -48v shelf and one of their isolated 48v
to 24v converters.

Router is an MT CCR converted to -48v with their DC power supplies.  Switch
is a CRS that will be wired to run off the ICT +24v converter.  We also
have 6x dwave backhauls that will all be fine with -48v.

Problem is, without a +48v source, I can't figure out a way to power all 13
radios through a single rack injector without giving up sync via power on
the 450i APs.  Is there an easy way to get +48v off of either the -48v
or +24v ICT supplies, or should I just plan on adding a second rack
injector?
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Need to vitalize your water? Germany says you can't.

[castarritt]

I'm not even mad, I'm impressed.

On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 2:34 PM Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:

> Looks like it’s actually 2,400 times. That’s $22.8 million. Dang.
>
> On Mar 12, 2021, at 1:21 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> So 240 different people each paid $9540 for a magic wand that shoots radio
> waves into their water.
>
> $2.2 million gross and only 240 customers to support.  I am doing this all
> wrong.
>
>
> On 3/12/2021 2:51 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
>
> From https://www.dailyherald.com/article/20210312/news/303129896/
>
> BERLIN -- German authorities on Friday banned the sale and use of a New
> Age '˜water vitalizer' device amid concerns that it is interfering with
> amateur radio signals.
>
> The Federal Network Agency said it had received numerous reports that the
> device, sold by Swiss company Wassermatrix AG as a way to 'activate' the
> body's self-healing powers, was transmitting on the frequencies allocated
> for ham radio users.
>
>
> The agency said owners of the 8,000-euro ($9,540) device, which has been
> sold more than 2,400 times in Germany, are allowed to keep but not use it.
>
> Wassermatrix AG didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.
> 
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Fw: Star link travelling and results

[castarritt]

What, doing the phones on Nightwatch isn't enough bragging rights?

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 4:28 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> One was a Gulfstream G500
> One was a Boeing E-4 Advanced Airborne Command Post
> One was a Boeing 737
>
> There were many others too, but the one I quoted on but never got was a
> Boeing 747-200 / VC-25A with a baby blue belly.  I could only deliver 48
> telephone extensions, alas they needed more...  That one would have
> conferred lifetime bragging rights...
>
> I still got one on the head of state aircraft for Benjamin Netanyahu.
> Did several heads of state, many corporate and some Hollywood folk and
> Arabian Princes.
> Wonder what they did with the Bill Cosby Gulfstream...
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 12:12 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Cc: Chuck McCown
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results
>
> The vehicle was doing 500MPH?!?  What kind of vehicle was this exactly?
>
> On 3/9/21 1:45 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> > I did airborne PBXs using a Rockwell Collins Inmarsat antenna that was
> > mounted on a vehicle doing 500 mph.
> >
> > -Original Message- From: Robert Andrews
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 9:54 AM
> > To: af@af.afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results
> >
> > I think it was a joke that Musk had said the dish could be mounted just
> > like it is on a vehicle...
> >
> > On 03/09/2021 05:02 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
> >> Is this a real question?
> >>
> >> *GinoVillarini
> >> *Founder/President
> >> @gvillarini
> >> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
> >> aeronet-logo  inc500
> >>  fb-logo
> >>  insta-logo
> >>  in-logo
> >>  tw-logo
> >> <
> https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor>
>
> >> yt-logo 
> >> www.aeronetpr.com  | Metro Office Park #18
> >> Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
> >>
> >> *From: *AF  on behalf of CBB - Jay Fuller
> >> 
> >> *Date: *Monday, March 8, 2021 at 7:14 PM
> >> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> >> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results
> >>
> >> How's the wind loading on that dish going to be at 500+ mph?
> >>
> >> - Reply message -
> >> From: "Chuck McCown via AF" 
> >> To: 
> >> Cc: "Chuck McCown" 
> >> Subject: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results
> >> Date: Mon, Mar 8, 2021 3:13 PM
> >>
> >> My overly optimistic forehead brain tells me that Starlink will be so
> >> successful internationally for governments, military, industry, remote
> >> rural etc etc that they will max out their system in the first few
> years
> >> without even needing any domestic customers.  I am sure they will come
> >> out with a mobile package soon and Teslas will have it built in.
> >>
> >> *From:*Adam Moffett
> >>
> >> *Sent:*Monday, March 8, 2021 7:34 AM
> >>
> >> *To:*af@af.afmug.com
> >>
> >> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Star link travelling and results
> >>
> >> Nobody mourned the end of dialup or ISDN.  When the end of fixed
> wireless
> >> comes, nobody will mourn that either.  The world will move on and
> you'll
> >> have to adapt to it.
> >>
> >> But I'll be a lot more worried about Starlink if they get allocated
> more
> >> spectrum.  2ghz sounds like a lot, but not that much compared to what
> >> they're trying to do.
> >>
> >> On 3/7/2021 12:06 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
> >>
> >> Was Netflix the end of DVDs?
> >>
> >> It will be a challenge for sure, but in cases where WISPs can offer
> >> 100mbit+ speeds to customers (usually due to few/no trees), they
> >> should be able to compete fine.
> >>
> >> Or cases where customers are surrounded by trees and Starlink won't
> >> work - but in those cases they need to be ready to spend up to a few
> >> thousand dollars for a tower for WISP CPE.
> >>
> >> On Sun, Mar 7, 2021, 10:42 AM  wrote:
> >>
> >> So this is the END of WISP?
> >>
> >> On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 12:00 PM Robert 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> 20 mile radius from registered address...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDEtuKgUw_g_channel=NowYouKnow
> >>
> >> -- AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug..com
> >> 
> >>
> >> -- AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug..com
> >> 
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >> --
> >> AF 

Re: [AFMUG] Question for the Borg

[castarritt]

Teach it how to use an adjustable wrench and then turn loose near
competitor tower?

On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 3:03 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Would probably push stuff off the top occasionally too
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 2:59 PM castarritt  wrote:
>
>> You would just end up with something that flings poo a few hours a day
>> and then sleeps the rest.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 6:50 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> maybe find a geneticists with loose morals to cross a cat with a monkey.
>>> you could rent your tower cat monkeys out like they do for beehives.
>>>
>>> that pic though looks like they did crummy job of netting, it all inside
>>> and doesnt inhibit any of the nesting points.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 6:22 PM Jaime Solorza 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have heard those on strip mall signs...
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 4:14 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've seen farmers use a battery-powered box that emits a loud chirping
>>>>> sound which imitates a number of bird-like sounds to keep birds out of
>>>>> their orchards.  It was very effective.  Birds are like people, they need
>>>>> to talk and don't like interruptions, they just leave.  One I saw used a
>>>>> recording of the sound birds make when they see a hawk.
>>>>> On 2/25/21 2:59 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> How close can you put those pipe cleaner looking lightning rods?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 4:19 PM Jaime Solorza 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Some guvt agencies looking for bird netting solution for their camera
>>>>>> towers...birds nest and crap on them.
>>>>>> They tried the spinning shining contraption... does not scare them
>>>>>> away...
>>>>>> Ideas?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Question for the Borg

[castarritt]

You would just end up with something that flings poo a few hours a day and
then sleeps the rest.

On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 6:50 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> maybe find a geneticists with loose morals to cross a cat with a monkey.
> you could rent your tower cat monkeys out like they do for beehives.
>
> that pic though looks like they did crummy job of netting, it all inside
> and doesnt inhibit any of the nesting points.
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 6:22 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> I have heard those on strip mall signs...
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 4:14 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>>
>>> I've seen farmers use a battery-powered box that emits a loud chirping
>>> sound which imitates a number of bird-like sounds to keep birds out of
>>> their orchards.  It was very effective.  Birds are like people, they need
>>> to talk and don't like interruptions, they just leave.  One I saw used a
>>> recording of the sound birds make when they see a hawk.
>>> On 2/25/21 2:59 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>
>>> How close can you put those pipe cleaner looking lightning rods?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 4:19 PM Jaime Solorza 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Some guvt agencies looking for bird netting solution for their camera
 towers...birds nest and crap on them.
 They tried the spinning shining contraption... does not scare them
 away...
 Ideas?

 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Today's poor kids and streaming video

[castarritt]

Pausing DVDs in the late 90's to early 2000's?  We had the internet
gramps.  Heck, one kid I went to high school with amassed an impressive 5GB
collection over 28.8kbps.

On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 4:55 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Am I the only one that's annoyed when you pause a video stream, they dim
> the screen and pop up other information.  How are you supposed to pause
> for the juicy bits?  And what about stepping through a scene frame by
> frame?  Today's poor kids probably have no concept of stepping through
> frame by frame.I mean at least the 2000's kids could pause the clear
> frame on the DVD and not having all the VHS tracking lines on the screen
> like I grew up with.
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Dragonwave diagnostics

[castarritt]

I don't think we have any dwave stuff that old, but our HC+ radios show
modulation as "system mode" on the web interface under home.

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:06 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I have an old dragonwave link from a network I inherited.
> 18ghz I think the model is an HC50  It's only a 100mb radio
>
> Is there a way to see what the actual modulation of the radio is?  I see
> the signal level, but nothing that talks about modulation.  The
> Performance page just lists wireless frames.  Or is there no Modulation,
> it's either up or down?
>
> I've never used Dragonwave before.  I'm guessing even the firmware on
> this thing is ancient.
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] AT outage

[castarritt]

If you experience an AT outage lasting more than four hours, contact your
family vehicle demolitionist?

On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 2:31 PM James Howard  wrote:

> Don’t they make pills for that sort of thing?  Maybe Steve’s doctors can
> fix you up.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Monday, December 28, 2020 2:15 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AT outage
>
>
>
> Must have been the tower I normally use.  I slowly came back.
>
>
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>
> *Sent:* Monday, December 28, 2020 1:05 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AT outage
>
>
>
> The Man
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> Wireless Systems Architect
>
> 915-861-1390
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 27, 2020 at 7:31 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> We are out.  I wonder how widespread this is?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
>
> *Total Control Panel*
>
> Login 
>
> To: ja...@litewire.net
> 
>
> From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com
>
> *You received this message because the domain afmug.com 
> is on your allow list.*
>
>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] YouTuber dismantles the SpaceX Starlink 'Dishy McFlatface' Antenna! [V

[castarritt]

Now take these ~$1k devices that are loaded with both complex electronics
as well as mechanical actuators (made as cheaply as possible) and hand them
over to be installed by your customers on their rooftops, with questionable
mounting, improper grounding, and probably no ethernet surge suppression.

On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 2:58 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Wait, 632 little chips and 79 BGAs, plus at 10-14 GHz it would be an
> expensive PCB per your previous post.
>
>
>
> So if the little chips were 50 cents each and the BGAs $5 each, that alone
> would be $700.  I’m just pulling those numbers out of the air, but it
> doesn’t sound like you could build it for $100.  More like $1000.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 29, 2020 2:49 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] YouTuber dismantles the SpaceX Starlink 'Dishy
> McFlatface' Antenna! [V
>
>
>
> Better info.  2 patches per sub array, not 4.
>
>
>
> The latest consumer product: *Ku-band phased array user terminal* for the
> Starlink Low Earth Orbit Internet system. The PCB is about 50 cm in
> diameter. Transmits LHCP at 14.0-14.5 GHz, with a power level between
> 0.7..4 W, receives RHCP in 10.7..12.7 GHz range.
>
> There are several types of custom ST chips on the board:
>
> The most numerous are 632 (!) small 16 pin chips, each of which is
> connected to two patch antenna elements of the array.
>
> There are 79 of much larger BGA chips, covered with metal tape and having
> blue heat conductive material connecting them to the aluminum heat spreader
> covering the board. Each of these chips is connected to the 8 small chips
> around it. (The architecture of the array is not known at this time. One
> possible solution is programmable time delay entirely through DSP
> .)
>
> A notable chip is the main system-on-a-chip IC in the right top corner,
> which would have to be the modem / system controller -- something along the
> lines of STiD337
> ,
> but faster and with the additional array control functionality.
>
> Another chip next to the modem has not been covered in the tear-down, and
> seems to have additional shielding around it. Possibly the PLL?
>
> The chip in the center of the array, as everybody agrees, must be related
> to clock distribution.
>
> Lots of other, presumably off-the-shelf components -- GPS receiver, MEMS
> IMU, memories, power converters, interface.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Nov 29, 2020, at 1:43 PM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> About 2000 is my estimate.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Nov 29, 2020, at 1:28 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> 
>
> The whole array looks to be one PCB ~~ 20" in diameter. A lot of silicon
> parts, but there appears to also be a lot of repeat parts. How many
> patches? Hundreds?
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 11/29/2020 12:24 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> This actually excites me for our industry. Everybody is all up in arms
> that theyll take our customers. Someone is always trying to take our
> customers.
>
> What excites me is the tracking capability. Autoalignment is expensive
> tech, out of our price range. But with starlink ultimately going to have to
> scale production to cost, I see technology leases happening and the price
> coming way down, low enough to be viable for our market, at least our
> higher end gear.
>
> I dont know the tolerances in the alignment on these, may be loose since
> it hits an array, but it's still got to be fairly tight to be able to
> maintain aggregate system capacity.
>
> Can you imagine, using something like cnheat to ID the best install spot,
> and send the tech out to just mount and it auto aligns, or to go self
> install.
>
> Realignment truck rolls, gone. If the aligner could turn enough, you could
> even move customers to new sites remotely.
>
> I'd bet the assemblies would get into the 20 to 50 dollar range on the SM
> costs. Power demand would be the killer though
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 29, 2020, 1:28 PM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
> Most guesses are upwards of $2,500 to manufacturer. Phased array antennas
> are very expensive and before they put a lot of effort into reducing cost,
> most said minimum $10k for this type of antenna.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 29, 2020, 12:36 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> That antenna array alone is probably costing them $20 and another $20 of
> chips on it.  I am guessing it is north of $100 to make.
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 29, 2020 11:28 AM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] YouTuber dismantles the SpaceX Starlink 'Dishy
> McFlatface' Antenna! [V
>
>
>
> What do you estimate it would cost them to manufacture in large
> quantities?  People are probably assuming it’s a $10 item at some point,
> but it looks expensive to me, even at scale.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: I was just thinking about Starlink...

[castarritt]

I think Starlink is in a low enough orbit that the Earth's magnetic field
will protect them from the CME charged particles that fry geostationary
satellites.  I suppose a bad solar flare might actually help Starlink if it
takes out the competition.  Better keep a close eye on any Starships flying
off towards the Sun, we don't want any funny business.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 1:17 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

>
> Let's just say for arguments sake that Starlink gets a functional
> constellation in place with, oh, 2,000 satellites in orbit. Everything
> goes just swell, and they grow the constellation to 4,000 satellites by
> the end of 2022.
>
> In January 2023 the sun erupts with a massive CME and kills 75% of the
> satellites. not to mention similar percentages of the GPS sats and
> whatever else is in orbit at the time.
>
> Whoops.
>
> What next?
>
> --
> bp
> 
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] new C.O.D.

[castarritt]

Good news is there is a limited production capacity for all of these tech
toys.  Bad news is they will likely all sell out.

On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 6:28 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> im dreading this holiday season
>
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 6:16 PM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> Yes. Came out today. 186 gigabytes in size. Resicukous.
>>
>> On Nov 12, 2020, at 7:14 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Did it release already?  I’ve had my first request to up a customer’s
>> speed tier and they are maxed out all day.
>> --
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Xbox 200gb update

[castarritt]

If you think that's bad, Microsoft Flight Simulator has 2 petabytes of
imagery that get streamed in from the internet as you play.  That's after
downloading a couple hundred GB to install it.  Flying over an urban area
with high detail settings, it pulls down about 25 Mbps.

On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 8:01 AM Timothy Steele 
wrote:

> You are not going to like the new Xbox series X with a hard drive only
>
> Designed for Full 4K Games to be downloaded only
>
> On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 9:50 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> Had a customer dispute few hundred GB data transfer. The only suspect
>> device is an xbox. They say the kids "didnt do anything different" they
>> play fortnite, forza and Roblox primarily.  Was there any big updates this
>> weekend?
>> Kid probably downloaded 2 demos or something
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Royalty deal

[castarritt]

Moderate Lent


On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 10:14 AM Brian Webster 
wrote:

> Isn’t it Lent?
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 7, 2020 11:00 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Royalty deal
>
>
>
> Well, pedophilia amongst children is probably OK.
>
> Moderate shootings with bean bag projectiles can be OK.
>
> Moderate cannibalism is OK when your airplane crashes in the Andes or you
> get snowed in by Truckee.
>
> Moderate fascism is totally OK in Russia it appears.
>
> I like moderate black lives.
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 7, 2020 8:49 AM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Royalty deal
>
>
>
> Only moderate fascism.
>
> Only moderate pedophilia.
>
> Only moderate cannibalism.
>
> Only moderate shooting.
>
> Only moderate black lives.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 10/7/2020 6:54 AM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> I choose moderation in all things.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Oct 7, 2020, at 7:51 AM, Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> 
>
> The medal hanging in the center of Star Trek Q's chest appears to be a
> sheep.  Oddly relevant.  The shepherd known as QAnon convinces his sheep
> that they're the enlightened ones and the non-believers are the real
> sheep.
>
>
>
> I know some of you are more worried about the left wing radicals who need
> to battle fascism and white supremacists which actually exist in the US
> only in scattered hundreds with no political or cultural relevance. The
> right wing ones frighten the hell out of me with their need to battle the
> pedophile cannibals who are completely imaginary.  A lot of people on both
> of these wings imagine that the silent majority secretly supports them.   I
> think the silent majority is silent for the same reason you silently ignore
> a raving street preacher.  Meanwhile a lot of politicians have noted that
> the loud and crazy people are more motivated to vote.
>
>
>
> Actual policy discussion becomes mired in the craziness.  "Oh you like
> free markets?  Must be a white supremacist."
>
> "Oh you're concerned the American police resort to violence more often
> than those in other countries.  You're a pawn of the pedophile cannibal
> cabal."  Interesting times.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 10/6/2020 6:26 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com
> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 6, 2020 5:23:18 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Royalty deal
>
> Q is the supposed "leader" of Qanon. Personally, I think there is probably
> more than one Q, and they may or may not coordinate their message(s). I
> think they could be more effective if they weren't so out and out bonkers.
> Eat babies? really?
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 10/6/2020 10:58 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> is that a real conspiracy?
>
>
>
> My wife had a friend over the other day, first time I ever met a real Q
> believer. weird shit. is Q not the same as Qanon? cause Qanon I always
> thought was just some guy that posted vague stuff and was supposedly in the
> administration. Q people think the rich eat babies and some lady who just
> had a miscarriage, cristy tegan or something, uses the code pizza, for
> little girls and always instagrams about pizza. weird shit
>
>
>
> I think HOAs operate on different rules, since its a "voluntary" entry
> into them. Ive never looked too deep into it cause id never be in one, id
> put an air hose up my back first. but the contracts must give up a great
> deal of private property rights including waiving otard stuff
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 9:23 AM Robert  wrote:
>
> Google uses low frequency brain stimulation..  Whenever you use their
> browser and the volume isn't turned off.
>
> On 10/6/20 7:15 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>
> Messaging is king of all I suppose.
>
> If you were Google, people would believe that you magically give it away
> for free.  Since you're not Google they'll assume some kind of robbery or
> graft.  I don't know how Google pulls off that kind of public relations
> coup.
>
>
>
> On 10/6/2020 10:06 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> But it is free!  Comes with HOA dues.  Such a deal.
>
> Sent 

Re: [AFMUG] OT I wonder

[castarritt]

I don't think nuke plants are the kind of thing you want to design by rapid
iteration through exploding prototypes.

On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 11:50 AM  wrote:

> If Elon Musk decided to build nuclear reactors, would the price plummet?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT fired a guy

[castarritt]

Maybe you weren't the only one that needed to terminate an employee today?

On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 4:29 PM  wrote:

> But you said you were busy...
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 19, 2020 3:14 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT fired a guy
>
> Sometimes, some guys, its just better to have a workplace accident and be
> done with it
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 1:26 PM Robert  wrote:
>
>> One of the reasons I have always liked companies that start all newbies
>> with a trusted(by you) mentor.  That mentor can usually make the call
>> within days of the hiring of the value of the newbie.  One week and one
>> month review between you and the mentor.   Your choice on disclosure of the
>> newbie's status via the mentor at the start.  But formally assigned to the
>> mentor upon hiring...
>>
>> On 8/19/20 11:20 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> It would have been cheaper to have paid him to sit on the side of the
>> street for the rest of the day.  And my wife just told me that he has not
>> even been with us 30 days yet.  I got a creepy feeling about him from the
>> get – go.  Was way too familiar with me for my liking.  (I think I will
>> adopt the Ellen rule:  no eye contact for the first 10 years...)
>>
>> Another one bites the dust.  I have always said the following about
>> hiring and firing:
>> I have (with the exception of one guy) never regretted firing anyone.
>> Almost always have wished I had done it sooner.
>>
>> Firing makes your company stronger if done right.  Your coworkers see
>> that you are not letting toxic or slacker people continue to be employed.
>>
>> *From:* Adam Moffett
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 19, 2020 11:53 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT fired a guy
>>
>>
>> You're not leaving him stranded in the desert, just telling him what time
>> the ride is.  My only question would be whether you are required to pay him
>> for the time he's just sitting there.  His time isn't really his own at
>> that point.
>>
>> As an optics thing it won't play well.   Might have been better to wait
>> until the end of the work day.
>>
>>
>> On 8/19/2020 1:46 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> My supervisor fired a problem employee at a construction site this
>> morning.  We have had lots of problems with this guy and I was glad to see
>> him go.  We hauled him to the job site and now he wants someone to take him
>> back to our office to get his vehicle.  I cannot spare a person or vehicle
>> at that site.  I don’t want to send someone special over to that site to
>> haul him.  Both the supervisor and I told him he can sit on the side of the
>> street until we are done for the day and we will take him back.
>>
>> He has his brother now calling and threatening police action, saying it
>> is Utah law that you have to give him a ride.
>>
>> Not sure about that.  If he was not such a dick I would have probably
>> sent someone to get him.  I don’t want to do it, I don’t want to send any
>> of the women.
>>
>> Anyone every heard that you have a legal duty to immediately transport
>> someone back to their vehicle if you terminate them?
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>> --
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Sports Streaming

[castarritt]

And all of them call their little 5 acre tract "the ranch".

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 2:13 PM  wrote:

> In my area, they move out to a 5 acre plot.  They end up with a house and
> 4.5 acres of highly flammable weeds.  Then they take legal action against
> land developers wanting to create more customers for me claiming 1 acre
> home
> lots are "high density".  And they claim to know what the local residents
> "want".  I have lived here for 20 years and they have lived here for 2
> years
> but they know what I want...
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Nate Burke
> Sent: Friday, August 7, 2020 12:58 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sports Streaming
>
> Worse are the people who move to the country then try to 'improve'
> things because they know how to do it better, having lived in the city
> their whole life.
>
>
> On 8/7/2020 1:54 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> > I also notice the real estate market is really hot right now.
> >
> > I'm not sure if it's low mortgage rates, or people trying to move away
> > from
> > Covid.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umS3XM3xAPk
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
> > Sent: Friday, August 7, 2020 1:37 PM
> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sports Streaming
> >
> > Gee, move even farther out from the city and you will have to drill your
> > own
> > well and put in a septic tank.
> > Even farther and you will be doing off grid solar and generators.
> > Even farther you will have to commute with a helicopter.
> >
> > Never understood folks that move out into the country but expect city
> type
> > of infrastructure.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Nate Burke
> > Sent: Friday, August 7, 2020 12:33 PM
> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sports Streaming
> >
> > I just had a guy this week move out of the city.  'I was getting 350mb
> for
> > what you want for 20mb, your price is too high'.  I refused to move.  He
> > signed up anyway.  Normal user traffic pattern of <5mb/s.
> >
> > On 8/7/2020 1:23 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> >> My latest challenge (and the kids aren't even back to school yet) is
> >> people wanting more upstream.  Because 3 people in the house are on
> >> Zoom conferences, stuff like that.  Or they are live streaming events
> >> on Facebook.
> >>
> >> The other thing, maybe a trend, I'm getting customers saying this
> >> other WISP is advertising a higher speed or a lower price, and wanting
> >> me to match it.
> >> I think it's similar to Nate's problem, people are wanting to do more
> >> things (like 3 simultaneous Zoom calls) and have more devices and
> >> streaming services, but they don't want to pay more.  So they shop
> >> around, and want your steak to match a competitor's sizzle so they can
> >> get more without paying more or doing any work.
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
> >> Sent: Friday, August 7, 2020 12:49 PM
> >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sports Streaming
> >>
> >> Yep, watched two partial baseball games in the last week.
> >> The Houston/Arizona game had an odd audio artifact.
> >> Sounded like they were broadcasting from inside a culvert.
> >> It might have been a misguided effort to simulate crowd noise but it
> >> was annoying.
> >>
> >> No pixilation here.  I love that the computer now not only shows the
> >> strike zone, but sometimes it calls balls and strikes as well as
> >> giving the speed.
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Nate Burke
> >> Sent: Friday, August 7, 2020 11:26 AM
> >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >> Subject: [AFMUG] Sports Streaming
> >>
> >> I've seen a big uptick in traffic over the last 2 or 3 weeks. Aren't
> >> major sports starting up again?  I'm guessing all the people who
> >> switched to streaming only over the summer are now streaming the sports.
> >>
> >> I've been dealing with one guy, he is on our lowest plan, and keeps
> >> complaining that his sports are pixelated.  And he's just gotta have
> >> sports and just doesn't understand why it's not working perfect on his
> >> 4k TV.  I can see he's maxed the connection 'My speed test is only
> >> 0.25mb and nothing in the house is running now, `still maxed traffic`,
> >> well the TV is on'
> >> I'm
> >> guessing that the Variable bitrate codecs takes more for sports than
> >> normal TV.  I told him to upgrade his package, he said he didn't want
> >> to spend any more money on Internet.  He's on Hulu + live TV + Sports,
> >> so that's already costing him more than what he's paying us, probably
> >> close to what satellite costs.  Then He wanted to know what TV to buy
> >> to make it stream better, I told him that wouldn't help.  Then he
> >> wanted to know what WIFI extender to buy to make it stream better, I
> >> told him that wouldn't help.  But he's claims he is on a tight budget
> >> and can't 

Re: [AFMUG] customer to English dictionary

[castarritt]

I've got no signal = Monitor on while PC powered down

On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 10:41 AM Larry Smith  wrote:

> We haven't touched anything = my son/daughter/cousin
> staying with us wanted faster internet so they moved the router
> into their room and now nothing works.
>
> --
> Larry Smith
> lesm...@ecsis.net
>
> On Thu July 23 2020 10:22, Nate Burke wrote:
> > 'Connection has been Unusable for several days' = Normal streaming
> > patterns until an hour ago.
> >
> > 'I don't know why the radio is offline' =
> > Self/husband/child/pet/landscaper cut the cable outside.
> >
> > 'It just stopped working' = new roof was installed
> >
> > On 7/23/2020 8:23 AM, Ron M. wrote:
> > > "The internet is down" = I can't get to my one specific
> > > (blog/porn/political/etc) website. I can get to everything else, just
> > > not that one site.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 2:17 AM Josh Luthman
> > > mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > "I've got nothing" = My DirectTV doesn't work, but my cell phone
> > > works, husbands phone and tablet works, all four kids are watching
> > > 2 video streams each
> > >
> > > Josh Luthman
> > > Office: 937-552-2340
> > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > Suite 1337
> > > Troy, OH 45373
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 1:36 AM Steve Jones
> > > mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > I've had old men start reading the label on the poe to me and
> > > it takes a bit to understand what they're telling me cause I
> > > cant even see most of it. Amazing to me.
> > >
> > > Also
> > >
> > > Right next to the router: 3 rooms over through a refrigerator
> > > behind a tv.
> > >
> > >  says your internet is too slow:
> > > Patel, I mean Roy from tech support doesnt even know what the
> > > service is he is supporting
> > >
> > > I didnt touch anything since it was installed: I moved every
> > > wire and managed to make my cordless phone power supply cord
> > > fit in the router
> > >
> > > That's the way your techs left it: I am a liar
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2020, 8:01 PM Adam Moffett
> > > mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Modem = a box with blinky lights.
> > >
> > > Router = a box with blinky lights.
> > >
> > > Hub = a box with blinky lights.
> > >
> > > Switch = a box with blink lights.
> > >
> > > You don't know what it is until they read the words on it
> > > and tell you it's the Linksy.
> > >
> > > On 7/22/2020 6:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> > >> I think we need one.  For example,
> > >>
> > >> Satellite = antenna (e.g. you put a satellite on my roof)
> > >>
> > >> Cable = TV (e.g. where do I plug in the cable)
> > >>
> > >> WiFi = Internet
> > >>
> > >> Booster = range extender
> > >>
> > >> Linsky = router (also Link System)
> > >>
> > >> Slow as dialup = meaningless, nobody remembers dialup
> > >
> > > --
> > > AF mailing list
> > > AF@af.afmug.com 
> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> > >
> > > --
> > > AF mailing list
> > > AF@af.afmug.com 
> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> > >
> > > --
> > > AF mailing list
> > > AF@af.afmug.com 
> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Federated Wireless SAS outage?

[castarritt]

cnHeat was broken too.

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 5:34 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I think it was actually cnMaestro that went away, or its IP address
> couldn’t be looked up.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Cassidy B. Larson
> *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2020 5:14 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Federated Wireless SAS outage?
>
>
>
> Our Google SAS also went offline.  Whatcha wanna bet CNMaestro hard codes
> requests to 1.1.1.1 to resolve SAS URLs?
>
>
>
> Gonna have to do some tcpdumps to verify.
>
>
>
> On Jul 17, 2020, at 3:58 PM, Larry Smith  wrote:
>
>
>
> Cloudflare had a major issue lasting about 30 minutes
>
> --
> Larry Smith
> lesm...@ecsis.net
>
> On Fri July 17 2020 16:47, Joe Novak wrote:
>
> whatever just blipped on the internet probably caused it,
> authoritative servers at Cloudflare maybe? It's appears to be working again
> here via Comcast and work.
>
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 4:44 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> TTL on DNS record is 1 minute.  Serial number is 1 which seems strange.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Nate Burke
> *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2020 4:37 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Federated Wireless SAS outage?
>
>
>
> Cloud.cambiumnetworks.com is working fine for me.  I'm resolving to
> us-east-1-rtr-1-578252723.us-east-1.elb.amazonaws.com [18.213.196.79]
>
> On 7/17/2020 4:36 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Actually, I can’t get DNS resolution for cloud.cambiumnetworks.com.  Even
> at my home which is not on my network.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Ken Hohhof via AF
> *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2020 4:32 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> 
> *Cc:* Ken Hohhof  
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Federated Wireless SAS outage?
>
>
>
> Anyone else experiencing SAS not reachable errors?
>
>
>
> Cambium CBRS with Federated Wireless SAS.
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router

[castarritt .]

Maybe they can use the motorized gimbal to shake off snow.

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 5:24 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> It is tilted, and I don't think it's flat. It's more like a dome.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 7/15/2020 3:18 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
> > What I noticed is the flat surface of the "UFO"..  Gonna get some snow
> > on that without a heater...
> >
> > On 07/15/2020 12:00 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> >> So are they looking at it from the mobile wireless perspective, where
> >> speeds are aspirational, “up to”, or “on a good day”?  Or from the
> >> home Internet perspective, where people run speedtests and bitch if
> >> they don’t get what they’re paying for?
> >>
> >> Who has ever gotten a refund or cancelled a 12 month contract on a
> >> cellphone because the speed didn’t match the marketing?
> >>
> >> And of course with any new service, whether it’s satellite or 5G, the
> >> early adopters will probably get fantastic speeds because there’s
> >> nobody else on the network.  Let’s face it, WISPs do this too.  Who
> >> hasn’t had a new WISP pop up in your area advertising speeds that
> >> sound like every subscriber gets the full capacity of the AP at max
> >> modulation.  And how many reviews do you see that say the WISP was
> >> fast at first and then the speeds just got slower and slower.
> >>
> >> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2020 1:42 PM
> >> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Details on the Starlink router
> >>
> >> The FCC allowed them 2Ghz of bandwidth for the satellite to user
> >> terminal.  20Gbps must assume 10 bits/hz.  Or maybe they mean a
> >> different sense of "capacity".  The journalistic sources are never
> >> precise about these things.
> >>
> >> I've been assuming that just like any other wireless you can't put
> >> the same channel into the exact same location at the same time, or
> >> else they would interfere.  So they might simplify and say "20 Gbps
> >> per satellite", but I think it's really going to be "20Gbps for a
> >> given geographic area".  I don't know how big that area will be, but
> >> the smaller the satellite is, the smaller the antenna has to be, and
> >> then of course the wider the beam is.  I imagine each satellite won't
> >> use the full 2ghz, but maybe dozens of satellites over a certain area
> >> will each use their own non-interfering chunk.
> >>
> >> I'll freely admit that I'm filling in blanks left by the articles
> >> I've seen.  Maybe there are additional details to explain how they're
> >> solving these problems, but I suspect the 20Gb per satellite is not
> >> going to be meaningful.  It'll be 20Gb total for a region of some size.
> >>
> >> On 7/15/2020 1:32 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
> >>
> >> Doing some math:
> >>
> >> 40K subscribers on 60 satellites is 666 subs/satellite if equally
> >> loaded. But load is far from equal, the planet surface is 70% water.
> >> I don't know how much the "standard" orbit is over water but let's
> >> say 50% as it's further from the poles. Say that at any point in
> >> time, around half the satellites will be barely useful (except for
> >> cruise ships, and overseas aircraft service) due to being over water
> >> and ground obstructions.
> >>
> >> So a more accurate number is 1300 subs/well-positioned satellite,
> >> assuming for simplicity that subs are equally physically spread out.
> >>
> >> The numbers that I saw state that every satellite has 20Gbps
> >> capacity, let's assume that that is downlink subscriber capacity at
> >> maximum modulation, and that the backhaul to the ground station is
> >> fully available to that satellite and also 20Gbps at max modulation.
> >> 20Gbps / 1300 subs is 15mbit per sub, assuming that everyone's using
> >> it simultaneously.
> >>
> >> But there are the issues with wireless in general, added to those
> >> about customer self-installs (shudder), and satellite service:
> >> mainly subs having trees or obstructions in the way, blocking or
> >> reducing LoS to at least part of the sky where their hand-off
> >> satellite should be, and rain. I'd say that altogether that a more
> >> realistic number with those is 8-12mbit per user.
> >>
> >> Being generous, 12Mbit average per sub: not bad these days,
> >> considering the traffic patterns at peak time (1/3rd subscribers
> >> using Netflix / D+ / etc with 1-3 streams at HD or 4K) I'd assume
> >> that from that they could sell mostly 30-70mbit download speed plans
> >> without too much consternation. But as traffic keeps increasing,
> >> over time they may run out of capacity for the higher plans and
> >> decide to reduce.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 11:58 AM Bill Prince  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> There are some details in this story that were new to me. One of
> >> the
> >> ones that popped up was that 

Re: [AFMUG] OT new splicing trailer

[castarritt .]

Neat project.  Have you considered making it double walled with some sort
of anti-vibration material or suspension between the inner and outer layers?

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 1:01 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> And experimental noise control box for the generator.  Getting 10 dB
> reduction does far.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone--
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] VPN?

[castarritt .]

We don't troubleshoot performance issues if the customer is going through a
VPN.  If the router is setup for a VPN, I would have him bypass it.

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 10:14 AM Colin Stanners  wrote:

> Sounds like a whole-router VPN solution. Answer: "VPNs will often slow you
> down, because they add extra processing and extra routers in the path, so
> expect lower performance or problems until you fix that issue".
>
> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 9:59 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> One remote IP.  My attempts to determine the netblock owner come up with
>> VPN-CONSUMER-NETWORK and AS32181 GigeNET, if I’m reading the info correctly.
>>
>>
>>
>> If I block that src/dst combination at the tower router, after a short
>> time another pops up to replace it.  Until that happens, all Internet in
>> the house ceases to work.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is one of several cases that seem to be getting more prevalent as
>> the COVID thing drags on, customer has teenage or adult sons who are doing
>> stuff the dad doesn’t understand but factor into his complaints to his
>> ISP.  Usually the kids are gamers.  In this case, it’s not just the kids
>> traffic, everything in the house also goes over this UDP tunnel, whatever
>> it is.  The dad complains about things like poor YouTube video quality and
>> taking a long time to buffer, or problems with his Firestick.  But I don’t
>> see that traffic as normal HTTPS or even TCP, just this one UDP connection.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’ve had other customer calls that lead me to believe the kids are doing
>> things like using QoS on the router to deprioritize other family members,
>> or block their MAC address, or changing the WiFi password, along with stuff
>> I have no problem with like snaking a long Ethernet cable down the hallway
>> from the router to their bedroom.  All in the name of gaming superiority.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Colin Stanners
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 22, 2020 11:31 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] VPN?
>>
>>
>>
>> To how many different hosts is the traffic going? That'll give you an
>> idea if it's VPN or something like TOR. Usually if customers are doing
>> something weird and complaining about performance, we first say to stop
>> that weird activity so that our benchmarks (speed / ping / MTR tests) work.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:27 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> What does it mean if 100% of a customer’s traffic is UDP between high
>> numbered ports?  Does this mean they have configured a VPN service using
>> their router?  If so, would you still troubleshoot any weird complaints of
>> Internet performance, or make them turn it off first?
>>
>>
>>
>> Or does this mean something different that I’m not thinking of?
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] zero rating and unlimited data

[castarritt .]

10GB/mo of best effort, and then unlimited, no throttling, no
deprioritization second best effort data! Sign up NOW!

On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 9:35 AM  wrote:

> After that would be a refreshing “best effort”.
>
> *From:* castarritt .
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 17, 2020 8:16 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] zero rating and unlimited data
>
> It's been fun watching the Hughesnet marketing evolve over time.  They've
> gone from "unlimited", to "no data caps", to "no throttling".  I'm sure
> their next marketing push will be "no deprioritization" once they figure
> out a new term to describe their data limit.
>
> On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 9:03 AM James Howard  wrote:
>
>> So truth in advertising would mean naming their plans more like:
>>
>>
>>
>> Nowhere close to Unlimited
>>
>> Really not Unlimited
>>
>> Slightly closer to Unlimited
>>
>>
>>
>> But it’s all good because it doesn’t matter what else they put in there,
>> if they say “Unlimited” then that’s the only word anybody focuses on.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 17, 2020 8:54 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] zero rating and unlimited data
>>
>>
>>
>> Those sound like alternative facts.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/16/2020 7:40 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> Beyond Unlimited, Above Unlimited, and Go Unlimited are obsolete.
>>
>> Now it’s Start Unlimited, Play More Unlimited, Do More Unlimited and Get
>> More Unlimited.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.verizon.com/support/compare-unlimited/
>>
>>
>>
>> Or for AT it’s Unlimited Starter, Unlimited Extra, or Unlimited Elite.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.att.com/support/article/wireless/KM1182926/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 16, 2020 8:30 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] zero rating and unlimited data
>>
>>
>>
>> Because it’s not the beyond unlimited plan.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 16, 2020, at 9:26 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I won’t even argue anymore with people who say they have an unlimited
>> mobile data plan.  It’s pointless, they have unlimited data, and you’re a
>> liar or an idiot to think otherwise.  No use showing them the 4 different
>> unlimited plans, all with different limits.
>>
>>
>>
>> But I’m confused by the articles (like one recently by EFF) complaining
>> about what a huge net neutrality violation it is for AT to zero rate
>> their HBO Max service.
>>
>>
>>
>> How can you have zero rating on an unlimited plan?
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Total Control Panel*
>>
>> Login <https://asp.reflexion.net/login?domain=litewire.net>
>>
>> To: ja...@litewire.net
>> <https://asp.reflexion.net/address-properties?aID=242260993=litewire.net>
>>
>> From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com
>>
>> *You received this message because the domain afmug.com
>> <http://afmug.com> is on your allow list.*
>>
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] zero rating and unlimited data

[castarritt .]

It's been fun watching the Hughesnet marketing evolve over time.  They've
gone from "unlimited", to "no data caps", to "no throttling".  I'm sure
their next marketing push will be "no deprioritization" once they figure
out a new term to describe their data limit.

On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 9:03 AM James Howard  wrote:

> So truth in advertising would mean naming their plans more like:
>
>
>
> Nowhere close to Unlimited
>
> Really not Unlimited
>
> Slightly closer to Unlimited
>
>
>
> But it’s all good because it doesn’t matter what else they put in there,
> if they say “Unlimited” then that’s the only word anybody focuses on.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 17, 2020 8:54 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] zero rating and unlimited data
>
>
>
> Those sound like alternative facts.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 6/16/2020 7:40 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Beyond Unlimited, Above Unlimited, and Go Unlimited are obsolete.
>
> Now it’s Start Unlimited, Play More Unlimited, Do More Unlimited and Get
> More Unlimited.
>
>
>
> https://www.verizon.com/support/compare-unlimited/
>
>
>
> Or for AT it’s Unlimited Starter, Unlimited Extra, or Unlimited Elite.
>
>
>
> https://www.att.com/support/article/wireless/KM1182926/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 16, 2020 8:30 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] zero rating and unlimited data
>
>
>
> Because it’s not the beyond unlimited plan.
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 16, 2020, at 9:26 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I won’t even argue anymore with people who say they have an unlimited
> mobile data plan.  It’s pointless, they have unlimited data, and you’re a
> liar or an idiot to think otherwise.  No use showing them the 4 different
> unlimited plans, all with different limits.
>
>
>
> But I’m confused by the articles (like one recently by EFF) complaining
> about what a huge net neutrality violation it is for AT to zero rate
> their HBO Max service.
>
>
>
> How can you have zero rating on an unlimited plan?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
>
> *Total Control Panel*
>
> Login 
>
> To: ja...@litewire.net
> 
>
> From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com
>
> *You received this message because the domain afmug.com 
> is on your allow list.*
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are ~~ 538 (approx)

[castarritt .]

Even better, make them use up all their fuel boosting into a more stable
orbit where they can crank the transmitters up to eleven and shit out
maximum noise for the next hundred years.  Now that I think about it, a
constellation of 10k "starlink" birds that just by pure coincidence happen
to have DoD developed "radios" in them for high power ultra wide band
transmission would have some interesting applications.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 3:50 PM castarritt .  wrote:

> I suppose the most interesting failure mode would be a vulnerability that
> allows a hacker to make all the birds maneuver and crash into each other.
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 3:46 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> Combine with the probability that collisions are going to be with birds
>> with 90-180 degree relative vectors. Sats going in the same relative
>> direction should "never" collide (he says optimistically). That means the
>> combined velocities are going to go down pretty quickly (quicker de-orbit).
>> Not so optimistically, they probably won't be direct hits, but more likely
>> glancing blows.
>>
>> I expect something is going to happen in the next 5-10 years, and we will
>> learn at least one failure mode.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 6/15/2020 12:50 PM, castarritt . wrote:
>>
>> A low orbit bird isn't going to get smacked from behind, so it would be
>> reasonable to assume that the vast majority if not all of the debris will
>> lose velocity instead of gaining it.  Also, small chunks of satellite
>> should have a lower ballistic coefficient than an intact satellite (mass
>> reduced by cube of size vs surface area reduced by square), so they should
>> experience greater decceleration from atmospheric drag.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:42 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> When things collide they will go many different directions and
>>> velocities, there is no calculation for when that will be cleared, or even
>>> where the debris even is
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:36 PM Robert Andrews 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So was my thoughts about debris correct.  If it becomes a shitshow does
>>>> it clear itself out in 5 years?
>>>>
>>>> On 06/15/2020 12:13 PM, Carl Peterson wrote:
>>>> > A generic calculation for a 500km orbit gives you around 10 years.
>>>> The
>>>> > design of the starlink satellite is somewhat optimized for this in
>>>> that
>>>> > when it is controllable it presents a knife edge to atmospheric drag
>>>> but
>>>> > uncontrolled it will slowly start to tumble and degrade much faster.
>>>> ~5
>>>> > years at 550km without looking it up.
>>>> >
>>>> > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:02 PM Bill Prince >>> > <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > SpaceX states that at the current service altitude, the
>>>> satellites will
>>>> > be-orbit in ~~ 5 years. That's one of the reasons they went with
>>>> the
>>>> > lower service altitude. The original was up substantially; perhaps
>>>> > where
>>>> > the 10 year number came from.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > bp
>>>> > 
>>>> >
>>>> > On 6/15/2020 11:44 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>>> >  > & I believe debris at that altitude deorbits even faster..
>>>> >  >
>>>> >  > On 06/15/2020 10:51 AM, castarritt . wrote:
>>>> >  >> with a ~500km altitude, they deorbit naturally after ~10years
>>>> > from drag.
>>>> >  >>
>>>> >  >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:36 PM Adam Moffett
>>>> > mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>
>>>> >  >> <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >  >>
>>>> >  >> Theoretically a Ubiquiti Nanostation was carrier grade and
>>>> > would do
>>>> >  >> 150Mbps.  It said so on the datasheet.
>>>> >  >>
>>>> >  >> Just saying maybe the small, cheap satellite will work
>>>> > exactly as
>>>> >  >> intended and maybe it'll have a firmware crash during a
>>>> > sunspot and
>>>> >  

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are ~~ 538 (approx)

[castarritt .]

I suppose the most interesting failure mode would be a vulnerability that
allows a hacker to make all the birds maneuver and crash into each other.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 3:46 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Combine with the probability that collisions are going to be with birds
> with 90-180 degree relative vectors. Sats going in the same relative
> direction should "never" collide (he says optimistically). That means the
> combined velocities are going to go down pretty quickly (quicker de-orbit).
> Not so optimistically, they probably won't be direct hits, but more likely
> glancing blows.
>
> I expect something is going to happen in the next 5-10 years, and we will
> learn at least one failure mode.
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/15/2020 12:50 PM, castarritt . wrote:
>
> A low orbit bird isn't going to get smacked from behind, so it would be
> reasonable to assume that the vast majority if not all of the debris will
> lose velocity instead of gaining it.  Also, small chunks of satellite
> should have a lower ballistic coefficient than an intact satellite (mass
> reduced by cube of size vs surface area reduced by square), so they should
> experience greater decceleration from atmospheric drag.
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:42 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> When things collide they will go many different directions and
>> velocities, there is no calculation for when that will be cleared, or even
>> where the debris even is
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:36 PM Robert Andrews 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> So was my thoughts about debris correct.  If it becomes a shitshow does
>>> it clear itself out in 5 years?
>>>
>>> On 06/15/2020 12:13 PM, Carl Peterson wrote:
>>> > A generic calculation for a 500km orbit gives you around 10 years.
>>> The
>>> > design of the starlink satellite is somewhat optimized for this in
>>> that
>>> > when it is controllable it presents a knife edge to atmospheric drag
>>> but
>>> > uncontrolled it will slowly start to tumble and degrade much faster.
>>> ~5
>>> > years at 550km without looking it up.
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:02 PM Bill Prince >> > <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > SpaceX states that at the current service altitude, the satellites
>>> will
>>> > be-orbit in ~~ 5 years. That's one of the reasons they went with
>>> the
>>> > lower service altitude. The original was up substantially; perhaps
>>> > where
>>> > the 10 year number came from.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > bp
>>> > 
>>> >
>>> > On 6/15/2020 11:44 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>> >  > & I believe debris at that altitude deorbits even faster..
>>> >  >
>>> >  > On 06/15/2020 10:51 AM, castarritt . wrote:
>>> >  >> with a ~500km altitude, they deorbit naturally after ~10years
>>> > from drag.
>>> >  >>
>>> >  >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:36 PM Adam Moffett
>>> > mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>
>>> >  >> <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>>>
>>> wrote:
>>> >  >>
>>> >  >> Theoretically a Ubiquiti Nanostation was carrier grade and
>>> > would do
>>> >  >> 150Mbps.  It said so on the datasheet.
>>> >  >>
>>> >  >> Just saying maybe the small, cheap satellite will work
>>> > exactly as
>>> >  >> intended and maybe it'll have a firmware crash during a
>>> > sunspot and
>>> >  >> just become a piece of high velocity garbage.  Even a low
>>> > failure
>>> >  >> rate over many years could eventually leave a whole
>>> crapload
>>> > of them
>>> >  >> buzzing around up there.
>>> >  >>
>>> >  >> .I'm sure people smarter than me have thought of all
>>> that.
>>> >  >> Haven't they?
>>> >  >>
>>> >  >>
>>> >  >> On 6/15/2020 1:26 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>> >  >>>
>>> >  >>> WRT orbiting debris; it's all good until the first
>>> "accident".
>>> >  >>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are ~~ 538 (approx)

[castarritt .]

A low orbit bird isn't going to get smacked from behind, so it would be
reasonable to assume that the vast majority if not all of the debris will
lose velocity instead of gaining it.  Also, small chunks of satellite
should have a lower ballistic coefficient than an intact satellite (mass
reduced by cube of size vs surface area reduced by square), so they should
experience greater decceleration from atmospheric drag.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:42 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> When things collide they will go many different directions and velocities,
> there is no calculation for when that will be cleared, or even where the
> debris even is
>
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:36 PM Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
>> So was my thoughts about debris correct.  If it becomes a shitshow does
>> it clear itself out in 5 years?
>>
>> On 06/15/2020 12:13 PM, Carl Peterson wrote:
>> > A generic calculation for a 500km orbit gives you around 10 years.  The
>> > design of the starlink satellite is somewhat optimized for this in that
>> > when it is controllable it presents a knife edge to atmospheric drag
>> but
>> > uncontrolled it will slowly start to tumble and degrade much faster.
>> ~5
>> > years at 550km without looking it up.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 2:02 PM Bill Prince > > <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> > SpaceX states that at the current service altitude, the satellites
>> will
>> > be-orbit in ~~ 5 years. That's one of the reasons they went with the
>> > lower service altitude. The original was up substantially; perhaps
>> > where
>> > the 10 year number came from.
>> >
>> >
>> > bp
>> > 
>> >
>> > On 6/15/2020 11:44 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>> >  > & I believe debris at that altitude deorbits even faster..
>> >  >
>> >  > On 06/15/2020 10:51 AM, castarritt . wrote:
>> >  >> with a ~500km altitude, they deorbit naturally after ~10years
>> > from drag.
>> >  >>
>> >  >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:36 PM Adam Moffett
>> > mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>
>> >  >> <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>>>
>> wrote:
>> >  >>
>> >  >> Theoretically a Ubiquiti Nanostation was carrier grade and
>> > would do
>> >  >> 150Mbps.  It said so on the datasheet.
>> >  >>
>> >  >> Just saying maybe the small, cheap satellite will work
>> > exactly as
>> >  >> intended and maybe it'll have a firmware crash during a
>> > sunspot and
>> >  >> just become a piece of high velocity garbage.  Even a low
>> > failure
>> >  >> rate over many years could eventually leave a whole crapload
>> > of them
>> >  >> buzzing around up there.
>> >  >>
>> >  >> .I'm sure people smarter than me have thought of all
>> that.
>> >  >> Haven't they?
>> >  >>
>> >  >>
>> >  >> On 6/15/2020 1:26 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> >  >>>
>> >  >>> WRT orbiting debris; it's all good until the first
>> "accident".
>> >  >>> Then we will see how this all shakes out. If it's bad
>> > enough, it
>> >  >>> could cause SpaceX (and all its brethren) to relinquish
>> all the
>> >  >>> orbital space unless/until they provide a mitigation plan.
>> > To some
>> >  >>> extent they are structuring their constellation to de-orbit
>> >  >>> quickly already. Plus their sats are theoretically
>> designed to
>> >  >>> de-orbit on their own at end of life.
>> >  >>>
>> >  >>>
>> >  >>> bp
>> >  >>> 
>> >  >>>
>> >  >>> On 6/15/2020 9:48 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>> >  >>>> That explains what this whole CHAZ thing is, they wanted
>> first
>> >  >>>> chance at some space x bandwidth.
>> >  >>>>
>> >  >>>> Im not a fan of star link, i think its going to cause some
>> > major
>> >  >&g

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are ~~ 538 (approx)

[castarritt .]

with a ~500km altitude, they deorbit naturally after ~10years from drag.

On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 12:36 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Theoretically a Ubiquiti Nanostation was carrier grade and would do
> 150Mbps.  It said so on the datasheet.
>
> Just saying maybe the small, cheap satellite will work exactly as intended
> and maybe it'll have a firmware crash during a sunspot and just become a
> piece of high velocity garbage.  Even a low failure rate over many years
> could eventually leave a whole crapload of them buzzing around up there.
>
> .I'm sure people smarter than me have thought of all that.  Haven't
> they?
>
>
> On 6/15/2020 1:26 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> WRT orbiting debris; it's all good until the first "accident". Then we
> will see how this all shakes out. If it's bad enough, it could cause SpaceX
> (and all its brethren) to relinquish all the orbital space unless/until
> they provide a mitigation plan. To some extent they are structuring their
> constellation to de-orbit quickly already. Plus their sats are
> theoretically designed to de-orbit on their own at end of life.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/15/2020 9:48 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> That explains what this whole CHAZ thing is, they wanted first chance at
> some space x bandwidth.
>
> Im not a fan of star link, i think its going to cause some major debris
> field issues in space for future generations. But nobody can argue with the
> fact that it is really cool that a guy like musk exists who just wants to
> do some really cool shit, so he does some really cool shit. Every kid at
> some point in life said, I wanna go to mars. Hes just like, yeah, imma go
> to mars.
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 14, 2020 at 6:04 PM Robert  wrote:
>
>> They are already peering in Seattle, and will only be northern latitudes
>> for a year according to a "insider" ( there are hundreds if not thousands
>> of them )
>>
>>
>> On 6/14/20 1:16 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>
>> In case anyone was watching SpaceX put up another 58 Starlink sats on
>> Saturday. That puts them at almost double the number they claimed to need
>> to enable their "private beta". I'm sure it's underway, plus they're
>> running some kind of test  with the US military.
>>
>> All the sats except for the first batch of 60 are of the 1.0 design.
>> Depending on which news blurb you read, these sats all have to relay
>> directly through ground stations, or they have some limited ability to go
>> sat-to-sat via an RF link. We may find out before the end of the year.
>>
>> They also stated that they c/would start the public beta when they had ~~
>> 800 sats in orbit. By my seat-of the pants estimation, that will be another
>> 4-1/2 launches from now; maybe another 3 months. Call it September, but who
>> knows.
>>
>> I think the biggest obstacle at this point is their pizza box/flying
>> saucer on a stick user terminal. I heard one estimate that the build cost
>> for it are in the neighborhood of $1200.
>>
>> I would say by the beginning of 2021, this topic will not longer be "OT".
>>
>> If you want to get notification when they can service your area, go here
>> .
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] More LIDAR fun

[castarritt .]

That pattern in the middle of the driveway looks more like a tree to me. I
bet that the LIDAR data was collected after the metal structure was built,
but before the tree was cut down to make way for the home.

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 2:40 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Heres an anomaly, the structures are not new.
>
> Would the LIDAR collection be impacted by a reflection off the driveway
> (maybe it was wet and at at just the right grade to reflect)? This drive is
> fully obstructed by the outbuilding
>
>>
>>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

[castarritt .]

That sounds like a recipe for community spread of the
Ragingthunderflu-April-2020, May-2020, June-2020...


On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:18 AM  wrote:

> Harem immunity.
>
> *From:* castarritt .
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:09 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>
> I said herd immunity, but brood immunity does sound cooler.
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:07 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> Why are we mooing?
>>
>> Can I cluck like a chicken instead?
>>
>>
>> On 4/20/2020 12:05 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> Moo
>>
>> *From:* castarritt .
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:04 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>>
>> It's looking like the doctors have come up with reasonably effective
>> treatment methods, so I bet we will slowly relax social distancing in an
>> attempt to cause a controlled spread that won't overwhelm the healthcare
>> industry too much, but eventually cause enough people to catch the virus
>> that we develop herd immunity.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:49 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> I think double or even triple bumps are inevitable  without
>>> China-level lock-downs or vaccines.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --
>>> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>> *Sent: *Monday, April 20, 2020 10:44:50 AM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>>>
>>> Unless we relax and get a double bump.
>>>
>>> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:44 AM
>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>>>
>>> I look at the curve and say we are half over.
>>>
>>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>>> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM
>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>>>
>>>
>>> That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can look at that
>>> curve and say it’s over, I don’t know.  That curve is probably dominated by
>>> the early hit densely populated areas like New York, where they are still
>>> only slightly off the peak death rate and are still piling bodies in
>>> refrigerated trucks at hospitals.  And the nursing homes and prisons.  It
>>> hasn’t even begun to sweep over the less dense areas with no hospitals,
>>> that will be the long tail of the curve.  Then we find out if we screwed up
>>> and brought a big second wave.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and dying,
>>> dealing with patients dying on every shift, worrying about infecting their
>>> families.  If this is still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, we aren’t
>>> going to have any doctors and nurses.  Who would do that job long term,
>>> even if they don’t get sick and die?  As various people have pointed out,
>>> this may be a war, but even soldiers aren’t asked to put their family’s
>>> lives at risk.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: image]
>>> --
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

[castarritt .]

I said herd immunity, but brood immunity does sound cooler.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:07 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Why are we mooing?
>
> Can I cluck like a chicken instead?
>
>
> On 4/20/2020 12:05 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Moo
>
> *From:* castarritt .
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:04 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>
> It's looking like the doctors have come up with reasonably effective
> treatment methods, so I bet we will slowly relax social distancing in an
> attempt to cause a controlled spread that won't overwhelm the healthcare
> industry too much, but eventually cause enough people to catch the virus
> that we develop herd immunity.
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:49 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> I think double or even triple bumps are inevitable  without
>> China-level lock-downs or vaccines.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Monday, April 20, 2020 10:44:50 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>>
>> Unless we relax and get a double bump.
>>
>> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:44 AM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>>
>> I look at the curve and say we are half over.
>>
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>>
>>
>> That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can look at that
>> curve and say it’s over, I don’t know.  That curve is probably dominated by
>> the early hit densely populated areas like New York, where they are still
>> only slightly off the peak death rate and are still piling bodies in
>> refrigerated trucks at hospitals.  And the nursing homes and prisons.  It
>> hasn’t even begun to sweep over the less dense areas with no hospitals,
>> that will be the long tail of the curve.  Then we find out if we screwed up
>> and brought a big second wave.
>>
>>
>>
>> Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and dying,
>> dealing with patients dying on every shift, worrying about infecting their
>> families.  If this is still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, we aren’t
>> going to have any doctors and nurses.  Who would do that job long term,
>> even if they don’t get sick and die?  As various people have pointed out,
>> this may be a war, but even soldiers aren’t asked to put their family’s
>> lives at risk.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>>
>>
>>
>> Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: image]
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

[castarritt .]

It's looking like the doctors have come up with reasonably effective
treatment methods, so I bet we will slowly relax social distancing in an
attempt to cause a controlled spread that won't overwhelm the
healthcare industry too much, but eventually cause enough people to catch
the virus that we develop herd immunity.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:49 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I think double or even triple bumps are inevitable  without
> China-level lock-downs or vaccines.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Monday, April 20, 2020 10:44:50 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>
> Unless we relax and get a double bump.
>
> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:44 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>
> I look at the curve and say we are half over.
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>
>
> That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can look at that
> curve and say it’s over, I don’t know.  That curve is probably dominated by
> the early hit densely populated areas like New York, where they are still
> only slightly off the peak death rate and are still piling bodies in
> refrigerated trucks at hospitals.  And the nursing homes and prisons.  It
> hasn’t even begun to sweep over the less dense areas with no hospitals,
> that will be the long tail of the curve.  Then we find out if we screwed up
> and brought a big second wave.
>
>
>
> Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and dying,
> dealing with patients dying on every shift, worrying about infecting their
> families.  If this is still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, we aren’t
> going to have any doctors and nurses.  Who would do that job long term,
> even if they don’t get sick and die?  As various people have pointed out,
> this may be a war, but even soldiers aren’t asked to put their family’s
> lives at risk.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>
>
>
> Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...
>
>
>
> [image: image]
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[castarritt .]

Here is the long term plan:

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf


TLDR:

Option 1: Do nothing, and 4+ million Americans die in a few months as the
healthcare system collapses.

Option 2: Do some quarantining and social distancing to flatten the curve,
and maybe a million Americans die.

Option 3: Shut down everything to stop the spread.  Keep everything shut
down for ~18 months until everyone is vaccinated.

It looks like we are headed for Option 3 right now.  With any luck, we
might develop some effective treatments for the virus that would lessen the
death toll of switching to Option 2.  Also, they have developed an antibody
test now, and anyone who tests positive for the antibodies will be safe
from the virus, and unable to spread it to others, so at least those people
will be able to go back to work.


On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:50 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Has anybody laid out what the long term plan is?
>
> We can't keep everybody at home forever and we can't stop all
> international trade and travel so sooner or later the virus has to run it's
> course, or so it seems to me.
>
> I know we're trying to slow down the spread so we don't overwhelm the
> hospital capacity and that's great.  Are we going to somehow reduce social
> isolation over time in a controlled way, or will social isolation end
> organically as people get sick of staying home?
>
>
> On 3/19/2020 3:16 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> I dont know how many times i need to point out this logic
>
> The US is undercounted, thats a given. undercounting does not equate
> hidden numbers of magnitude
>
> Heres the logic thats completely being ignored
>
> The deaths associated with COVID19 that werent tested would have been
> attributed to flu
> There has been no reported increase in flu deaths per the anticipated
> rates this year
>
> The testing that has been done is very promising. Yesterdays counts of
> those tested were running around 8 percent positive. This does NOT equate
> to 8 percent of the population. The "administration bad, nobody can just go
> get a test for curiousity" argument further strengthens this as a promising
> number. The ONLY people being tested for the most part, are those in the
> very high probability category. So of those assumed to be infected, only 8
> percent of them actually are.
>
> We still havent hit globally the number of infections and deaths from the
> swine flu in the US alone. let me reiterate this GLOBALLY TODAY, there are
> less sick and dead, than from swine flu in the US ALONE. The current
> response is such that has never been seen in the history of the planet.
>
> Inmates are an issue, with a guard and an inmate at rikers island infected
> now, we have a national issue. if we dump the prisons, not only do we have
> a ton of criminals on the street, we have hundreds of thousands of indigent
> on the streets in the middle of a pandemic. (maybe not having locked up
> such a percentage of the population in the first place is a whole other OT
> rant). Iran dumped 70k inmates on the streets, i cant imagine that having
> helped their situation.
>
> Morons on spring break making a point of interacting even more than they
> normally would have is illogical enough to eliminate any logic.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 2:00 PM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> I don't know that Russia's numbers are terribly inaccurate... it's really
>> just starting to spread there now, and the numbers aren't far off what
>> other countries reported early on, and the cases they have reported are
>> almost all in Moscow. They also have much tighter border controls than most
>> of the world, and they're going on lockdown earlier into the outbreak than
>> most countries did... so it's not unbelievable that they'd have low numbers
>> at this point.
>>
>> But who knows what's really going on in some of these countries... it
>> certainly wouldn't surprise me if China is lying about their numbers, it
>> all depends on what they think is in their best interests at this point,
>> and I don't trust any information from or about North Korea, no matter what
>> the source is, but the high level of government control over everything in
>> North Korea could certainly give them an advantage in this situation.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 1:42 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Russia, India, Mexico. I heard something on NPR
>>> this morning about mass graves in Iran. It may be years (or never) before
>>> we understand the scope of this.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/19/2020 11:37 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>
>>> I still believe North Korea has a huge problem that they are covering
>>> up.  Especially in the labor camps.  Communal sleeping barns etc.  No
>>> sanitation facilities.
>>>
>>> *From:* Bill Prince
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 12:34 PM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: 

Re: [AFMUG] COVID-19 and WISPAmerica

[castarritt .]

Can I place them facing large fire ant mounds?

On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 5:11 PM Mitch Koep  wrote:

> https://www.wired.com/2007/06/robo-tasers-for/
>
> incase non lethal is an idea lol
> On 3/13/2020 4:46 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> Claymores can be very effective.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 3/13/2020 2:16 PM, Robert wrote:
>
> I would have taken you for an electrified fence kinda guy...
>
> On 3/13/20 12:05 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> I have a nice balcony connecting my BR to my office at home.  Lots of room
> for a 50 cal tripod mounted M2 looking out the driveway.
> At least that would take care of my Southern exposure.  Land mines will
> get the rest.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, March 13, 2020 12:47 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID-19 and WISPAmerica
>
> The AR wasnt the weapon of choice. Prone to mechanical issues. But price
> was right, and it was the only semiauto rifle in stock, in my price range.
> I would have preferred the henry repeater if this were a pleasure purchase.
> AR is a hyped up weapon, much like this plague. And I dont want a semi auto
> shotgun. But given the purpose of the purchase and the escalation of
> stupidity, it was the option. I have a couple .22 and a 9mm handgun. .22
> doesnt have the stopping power, or the shock and awe noise factor. The
> kids, I prefer not touch the handgun, too loose of a weapon. the 20 guage
> would be preferred for them, but the wife said no to two guns. I dont even
> keep most guns at my house currently, they stay across the street at my
> dads house. I needed something with stopping power, noise, and capacity in
> the even the ill prepared choose to take advantage of the shitshow that
> might go down. Id prefer to not even own an AR, because even if the
> shitshow (that probably wont come to pass) happens, it will end and I still
> will have a politically problematic weapon, whos reputation doesnt justify
> its hassle of ownership, but it is what it is. I did load all the
> magazines, I normally keep ammunition in a separate container as the stored
> weapons. thats the first escalation, if the morons calm their tits, ill
> unstress those springs. If it continues to escalate, Ill bring the weapons
> home. So no, nothing moronic or impulse about the purchase. If you saw my
> walmart, youd understand. Stupid people are dangerous, and stupid criminals
> are almost as bad. And when the mandated wait is over, ill pick up another
> 1000 rounds when i pick up the weapon. When the shitshow is over, hopefully
> i still have every single cartridge and we can have a good fun day at the
> range.
> Morons and governments make me nervous, theyre both too prone to impulse
> stupidity
>
> On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 1:23 PM Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> I think it falls more under prepping than hoarding at that point.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 1:07 PM Robert  wrote:
>>
>>> If you bought it before the run and it was super cheap from the right
>>> place online in December and availability was trivial, was it still
>>> hoarding?
>>>
>>> On 3/13/20 7:25 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
>>> > On 3/13/20 6:33 AM, Carl Peterson wrote:
>>> >> And yes, stocking up on ammunition is moronic behavior.  Spend the
>>> >> money on some extra dry goods you could share with your neighbors in
>>> >> the event that they need help.  WWJD
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > That requires rational thought. The people that think the best
>>> > response to all of this is to purchase mass quantities of toilet paper
>>> > aren't exactly top of the smarts chain.
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] 450SM command line syntax

[castarritt .]

I test/provision 450s through a Mikrotik using NAT rules to access the
radio's 169.254.1.1 address via the tik's IP on my LAN.  Just add a
169.254.0.0/16 address to the radio interface, setup a dstnat rule pointing
port 80 to 169.254.1.1, and a masquerade rule on the radio's interface.

On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 12:22 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> No, the SM isn't associated, and I'm only able to telnet to it from the
> Mikrotik that it's plugged into which I still have access to via a
> different path.  So without setting up a tunnel, I can't get HTTP to it
> without going on site.
>
> On 3/13/2020 12:14 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> > You can't even get to the GUI via the AP web proxy?
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
> > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 11:52 AM
> > To: Animal Farm 
> > Subject: [AFMUG] 450SM command line syntax
> >
> > I have a 450SM that because of some network reasons, I can only telnet
> to.
> > Is there a way to run an APEval from the command line and/or Change the
> > color code?  I didn't see it listed in the 'help' option.
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID-19 and WISPAmerica

[castarritt .]

Strategic lipid reserves are a thing, just make sure you have enough ammo
that your reserves won't go to someone else.


On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 11:08 AM  wrote:

> I can live off my body fat for much longer than that.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 9:25 AM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID-19 and WISPAmerica
>
> Trying to put this in the best light, maybe people are preparing for 2+
> weeks of home quarantine.  But I would run out of food before I ran out of
> toilet paper.
>
> I would like to think that society isn't going to break down to the point
> where I couldn't get Amazon to deliver a box of pasta and canned goods, or
> get someone to bring me some bread and milk and leave it on the porch.
>
> Hand sanitizer though, all the shelves are empty.  Again, I'd like to
> think
> stores are going to get restocked with the stuff people are panic buying.
> This is not going to be over in the next month.  Please tell me there will
> be more hand sanitizer, toilet paper, pasta and canned peaches, and we're
> not living in a Mad Max movie.
>
> If somebody's grandparents are stuck in their house for 14 days and can't
> get basic supplies delivered because other people scooped everything up,
> well, that would suck.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 9:25 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID-19 and WISPAmerica
>
> On 3/13/20 6:33 AM, Carl Peterson wrote:
> > And yes, stocking up on ammunition is moronic behavior.  Spend the
> > money on some extra dry goods you could share with your neighbors in
> > the event that they need help.  WWJD
>
>
> That requires rational thought. The people that think the best response to
> all of this is to purchase mass quantities of toilet paper aren't exactly
> top of the smarts chain.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
>
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>
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AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Europe travel ban, or also "trade and cargo"?

[castarritt .]

Xzibit be like "yo dawg, we heard you like food that tastes like shit".


On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 5:08 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> No, they use Kale for that.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *James Howard
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 12, 2020 4:46 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Europe travel ban, or also "trade and cargo"?
>
>
>
> College kids use Ramen noodles for TP?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 12, 2020 4:42 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Europe travel ban, or also "trade and cargo"?
>
>
>
> With all the colleges throwing kids out of the dorms, I expect a run on
> Ramen Noodles.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *castarritt .
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 12, 2020 4:19 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Europe travel ban, or also "trade and cargo"?
>
>
>
> Anything's TP if you're brave enough.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 4:07 PM Jay Weekley 
> wrote:
>
> Beer. Lots of beer.  I can wipe my rear end with a t-shirt but if beer
> gets hard to find I'm getting scared.
>
> James Howard wrote:
> >
> >
> https://nypost.com/2020/03/12/chinese-official-blames-coronavirus-outbreak-on-us-military/
> >
> > It’s official.  The US is to blame for everything.
> >
> > I was in the local grocery store to get something for lunch today and
> > a couple of old women were pushing carts around full of toilet paper
> > and diet pepsi (about even split it looked).  As I walked past one of
> > them said to the other that they needed to go look for something else
> > (couldn’t hear what it was though) because “gotta stock up before it’s
> > hard to get”.   I wonder what you could possibly need besides tp and
> > pepsi?
> >
> > *From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> > *Sent:* Thursday, March 12, 2020 3:56 PM
> > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Europe travel ban, or also "trade and cargo"?
> >
> > If we could shot everyone infected, we would have it contained to...
> > btw, can we shoot the infected?... asking for a friend. For real
> > though, im stopping out to top off ammunition tonight. When people say
> > nobody needs 10,000 rounds of ammunition, I want to ask them how
> > theyre doing on toilet paper. I fear thats what they will come for,
> > they will kick at my door with their emaciated bony legs wanting to
> > get the TP and not my food. I am planning on taking the new infant
> > home on next thursday, the wife has to stay til friday or saturday for
> > post op care from the c-section but the baby is just required to stay
> > one day. These morons are already lining up at the hospital, convinced
> > they have coronavision cause their TV told them so. Bringing all their
> > vile diseases with them to one place. some super-bug is going to be
> > created in that hospital. dirty vile disgusting cesspools of death
> > that hospitals already are. Ill post some pics, for those of you still
> > alive thursday, of me and the baby, with our toilet paper and guns. We
> > are under state of emergency, i never checked to see if illinois has
> > the constitutional carry under state of emergency like some states do.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 2:51 PM  > <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Maybe James Franco could pay him a visit and see how they are
> > doing it.
> >
> > *From:*Lewis Bergman
> >
> > *Sent:*Thursday, March 12, 2020 1:48 PM
> >
> > *To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >
> > *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Europe travel ban, or also "trade and cargo"?
> >
> > I have heard that, but having a police state where movement is
> > already curtailed and everybody is taught from birth to believe
> > the stubby leader is a super hero does have benefits. It is
> > impossible to compare a society like that to one of almost any
> > other type. Reminds me of World War Z with Brad Pitt. There was a
> > little social engineering speech in there that seems apropos.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 2:31 PM  > <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
> >
> > He seems to have a special talent, (where is Al Frankin to
> > write a book when you need one...)
> >
> > Everyone seems to be forgetting that North Korea has knocked
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Europe travel ban, or also "trade and cargo"?

[castarritt .]

Anything's TP if you're brave enough.

On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 4:07 PM Jay Weekley 
wrote:

> Beer. Lots of beer.  I can wipe my rear end with a t-shirt but if beer
> gets hard to find I'm getting scared.
>
> James Howard wrote:
> >
> >
> https://nypost.com/2020/03/12/chinese-official-blames-coronavirus-outbreak-on-us-military/
> >
> > It’s official.  The US is to blame for everything.
> >
> > I was in the local grocery store to get something for lunch today and
> > a couple of old women were pushing carts around full of toilet paper
> > and diet pepsi (about even split it looked).  As I walked past one of
> > them said to the other that they needed to go look for something else
> > (couldn’t hear what it was though) because “gotta stock up before it’s
> > hard to get”.   I wonder what you could possibly need besides tp and
> > pepsi?
> >
> > *From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> > *Sent:* Thursday, March 12, 2020 3:56 PM
> > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Europe travel ban, or also "trade and cargo"?
> >
> > If we could shot everyone infected, we would have it contained to...
> > btw, can we shoot the infected?... asking for a friend. For real
> > though, im stopping out to top off ammunition tonight. When people say
> > nobody needs 10,000 rounds of ammunition, I want to ask them how
> > theyre doing on toilet paper. I fear thats what they will come for,
> > they will kick at my door with their emaciated bony legs wanting to
> > get the TP and not my food. I am planning on taking the new infant
> > home on next thursday, the wife has to stay til friday or saturday for
> > post op care from the c-section but the baby is just required to stay
> > one day. These morons are already lining up at the hospital, convinced
> > they have coronavision cause their TV told them so. Bringing all their
> > vile diseases with them to one place. some super-bug is going to be
> > created in that hospital. dirty vile disgusting cesspools of death
> > that hospitals already are. Ill post some pics, for those of you still
> > alive thursday, of me and the baby, with our toilet paper and guns. We
> > are under state of emergency, i never checked to see if illinois has
> > the constitutional carry under state of emergency like some states do.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 2:51 PM  > > wrote:
> >
> > Maybe James Franco could pay him a visit and see how they are
> > doing it.
> >
> > *From:*Lewis Bergman
> >
> > *Sent:*Thursday, March 12, 2020 1:48 PM
> >
> > *To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >
> > *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Europe travel ban, or also "trade and cargo"?
> >
> > I have heard that, but having a police state where movement is
> > already curtailed and everybody is taught from birth to believe
> > the stubby leader is a super hero does have benefits. It is
> > impossible to compare a society like that to one of almost any
> > other type. Reminds me of World War Z with Brad Pitt. There was a
> > little social engineering speech in there that seems apropos.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 2:31 PM  > > wrote:
> >
> > He seems to have a special talent, (where is Al Frankin to
> > write a book when you need one...)
> >
> > Everyone seems to be forgetting that North Korea has knocked
> > it out of the ball park...
> >
> > *From:*Lewis Bergman
> >
> > *Sent:*Thursday, March 12, 2020 1:18 PM
> >
> > *To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >
> > *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Europe travel ban, or also "trade and
> > cargo"?
> >
> > It is hard for me to believe any speech by anyone rises to the
> > level of disaster. Having said that, if anyone is capable of
> > delivering such a speech, I am sure Trump is. I would hope
> > that a speech isn't all someone expects as a government
> > response in times like these.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 11:41 AM Jaime Solorza
> > mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > From a conservative source..
> >
> >
> https://www.commentarymagazine.com/noah-rothman/trump-coronavirus-speech-was-a-disaster/
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 11, 2020, 8:30 PM Ken Hohhof  > > wrote:
> >
> > Did anyone listen to the POTUS address tonight? It is
> > being reported as a 30 day European travel ban.  But I
> > heard him say “these prohibitions will not only apply
> > to the tremendous amount of trade and cargo, but
> > various other things as we get approval. Anything
> > coming from Europe to the United States is what we are
> > discussing.”
> >
> > He was clearly reading from a teleprompter, so I don’t
> >  

Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] COVID-19 and WISPAmerica

[castarritt .]

How about a bio weapon, maybe one that presents like influenza?

On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 5:06 PM James Howard  wrote:

> Can’t we find a method that vaporizes all the people but leaves the pizza
> and fries?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 11, 2020 5:02 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] COVID-19 and WISPAmerica
>
>
>
> are you questioning me? where are you at? I suspect kungflu in your area,
> glassitol for you too
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:55 PM James Howard  wrote:
>
> You can’t nuke Italy and France.  How would we survive without pizza and
> french fries?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 11, 2020 4:50 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] COVID-19 and WISPAmerica
>
>
>
> Best to just nuke italy, turn it and france to glass. its best to play it
> safe, this is too dangerous not to nuke them, and canada. washington and
> california... glass them. Glassitol is the only cure
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 4:46 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>
> Why must we assume Italy is going to be then normal.  This virus is in or
> has been in 121 countries.  Several of those countries have had it before
> Italy has had its first.  By far Italy on a percentage basis is the worst
> case.  I don't think it is fair to declare everyone one is going to end up
> like Italy.  Why is Italy so bad?  Could it be the weather?  Could it be
> something genetic in their DNA?  Could it be the large amount of tourist
> moving though the country?  Could it be the locals do more cash
> transactions than other countries?  Could it be they almost french kiss
> each other with every hello or good bye?  Many, many, many factors.  But
> just to assume everyone is going to turn out like Italy is just part of the
> fear mongering.
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>
> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
> www.Myakka.com
>
> --
>
> Wednesday, March 11, 2020, 4:28:30 PM, you wrote:
>
> It seems to me that the number of deaths and critical cases is a lot more
> meaningful than the total reported cases... all that really tells you is
> that lots of people were or weren't tested in a particular country. I don't
> have any idea what's actually going on in Italy as far as testing, buy
> judging by the number of deaths and critical cases, I'd guess that they've
> tested far fewer people that other countries where it's widespread and the
> death rate is much lower.
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 3:24 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> this really is the only graph that matters if youre picking just 1
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 3:18 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbyPW8lJX2E
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 1:29 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
> Yup great site josh!  We are about 9 days behind Italy.
>
> The cases grow exponentially every day and what will happen is our
> hospitals have no surge capacity.  20% of the people who get it will need
> ICU level of care.  There isn’t capacity for that unless we flatten the
> curve.  The same number of people will probably get the virus, the
> difference will be that our health care system can handle the load if it is
> stretched over time.
>
> Social distancing is the only way to flatten the curve.
>
> Thanks for sharing!
>
> -Sean
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 1:09 PM Josh Luthman via Wireless <
> wirel...@wispa.org> wrote:
>
>
> https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html?fbclid=IwAR0Hvia4VtxJ1AjJZaTv40aive3k79kdTmOfjt_vGkGz7o4XuY4ZnRO02-Y#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> 
> Suite 1337
> 
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:59 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
> https://www.flattenthecurve.com/
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 11:58 AM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
> I’m sorry folks but this conference really should be canceled for the
> safety of everyone.
>
> Thank you to Sonar For their brave decision yesterday to pull out.
>
> I know this would be a hardship for WISPA’s finances so I think we should
> all pull together to make sure WISPA doesn’t suffer financially.  We need
> WISPA and our members to be healthy and strong both physically and
> financially.
>
>
> https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-03-11/coronavirus-advice-from-bioethicists-cancel-that-conference
> https://youtu.be/E3URhJx0NSw
>
> Best regards,
> -Sean
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu

[castarritt .]

I see a lot of people in other forums that seem to think the virus won't be
as dangerous in the US because 'murica, but looking my average fellow
Americans and our rate of comorbidities, I'm not so sure about that.  Also,
this:

https://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/transporting-an-infected-person-china-italy-usa-comparison-corona-virus.jpg

On Wed, Mar 4, 2020 at 2:29 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> This is not good news:
>
>
> https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/03/who-says-coronavirus-death-rate-is-3point4percent-globally-higher-than-previously-thought.html
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 8:56 PM  wrote:
>
>> Wow, that is sad.  Really brings the whole situation home.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Bill Prince
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2020 7:12 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu
>>
>>
>> This is one I didn't expect. My nephew's father just came back from a
>> cruise and he's now in a hospital in Sacramento. We've been told he has
>> COVID-19, and he is not expected to survive. He is in his mid 70s.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 3/2/2020 9:56 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>> > Everyone wears them in China ( hence the deaths going down ) to prevent
>> > you from touching mouth or nose and goggles for eyes, if in public. If
>> you
>> > want to get the R0  (R naught) below two and get ahead of this you
>> _must_
>> > stop people from passing.Part of the reason not to touch is also to
>> > keep people from picking it up on surfaces as there is a pretty good
>> body
>> > of evidence that it lasts multiple days on paper and plastic and 1-2
>> days
>> > on everything else.  YES UV helps but this is a much tougher little
>> bugger
>> > than the common flu..
>> >
>> > On 03/02/2020 09:27 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> >> The advice is that masks don't really protect you. OTOH, they say if
>> you
>> >> ARE infected that you should wear a mask. The idea is that masks don't
>> >> really keep the virus out, but they can help in keeping the virus in.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> bp
>> >> 
>> >>
>> >> On 3/2/2020 9:14 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
>> >>> Surgeon General tells people not to buy masks.
>> >>>
>> >>> Uhh hello?  The richest most "ready" country in the world doesn't
>> have a
>> >>> 6 month supply of masks in storage ready for such an event?  What the
>> >>> heck?
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Steven Kenney
>> >>> Network Operations Manager
>> >>> WaveDirect Telecommunications
>> >>> http://www.wavedirect.net
>> >>> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> 
>> >>>
>> >>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
>> >>> *To: *"af" 
>> >>> *Sent: *Monday, March 2, 2020 11:00:25 AM
>> >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu
>> >>>
>> >>> Maybe they can send it to us.  Today for the first time I heard the
>> term
>> >>> “surge capacity” applied to hospital beds. Person was saying US
>> >>> healthcare industry has made hospitals efficient same way as
>> airlines,
>> >>> aim for zero empty beds, with the result that there’s not much surge
>> >>> capacity.  Let’s hope somebody’s looking at ways to open up more
>> >>> facilities in areas where outbreaks happen.  The Chinese weren’t
>> stupid
>> >>> with their modular approach to quickly creating a field hospital.
>> >>> Reminds me of MASH.  Time for a bug out!
>> >>>
>> >>> I did a quick Google search for “hospital surge capacity” and the
>> first
>> >>> page of results were mostly studies after Katrina. A hurricane is
>> worse
>> >>> because it closes down hospitals and pharmacies, eliminating
>> capacity.
>> >>> With the coronavirus what I suspect we need to guard against is
>> >>> infecting all the hospital staff and first responders so they get
>> >>> quarantined.  This appears to be happening with that nursing home in
>> >>> Kirkland, Washington.  25 firefighters are now quarantined as a
>> >>> precaution because they had been to that facility.
>> >>>
>> >>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> >>> *Sent:* Monday, March 2, 2020 8:44 AM
>> >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu
>> >>>
>> >>> Chinas closing their first hospital they built since they dont have
>> >>> enough patients
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Mar 2, 2020, 8:42 AM Bill Prince > >>> > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Perish the thought! 3-hour-old baguettes! I would rather die from
>> >>> COVID-19 before eating an old baguette!
>> >>>
>> >>> If I smoke another cigarette, I can aggravate my COPD and hasten
>> >>> the end.
>> >>>
>> >>> bp
>> >>>
>> >>> 
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 3/2/2020 5:57 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Well, the French are screwed, they don’t even stock food for
>> >>> tonight’s dinner.  Because who wants to eat 2 hour old
>> >>> baguettes.  Probably the only thing in their pantry is
>> >>> cigarettes and wine.  But at least if these are the end times,
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[castarritt .]

I think the Executive's words can influence confidence in the economy.  I
want a successful salesman in that position, not someone with a "those jobs
are never coming back" attitude.

On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 4:11 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> I will say that we in the USA have a terrible habit of pinning the economy
> on our politicians.  When things go up each party will take credit, and
> when they go down each party will blame the other.
>
> In reality the economy of the nation is driven mostly by the chaotic stew
> of everyday decisions made by millions of consumers and businesses.  The
> federal reserve can influence those decisions by adjusting interest rates,
> and the the Executive & Legislative branches can influence those decisions
> with some of their spending, regulation, and tax policies.  The extent of
> that influence is debatable, but I really don't believe it's as far
> reaching as people seem to think.  Overall you bought a house because you
> needed a place to live, and you bought a Cambium 450i because you needed
> one of those too.  Did you really choose not to buy what you needed because
> of a Trump tariff or an Obama tax? I doubt it.
> I don't believe we live in a Trump economy or an Obama economy.  We live
> in the American economy. If the president actually controls the economy
> then we must live in the USSR.  We should probably revolt right now if
> that's the case.
>
> -Adam
>
>
>
> On 3/2/2020 4:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Steve, you need different media.
>
>
>
> Or do you mean the plural of “medium” as in someone who connects you to
> the spirit world?
>
>
>
> Eenie meenie chili beanie, the spirits are about to speak.
>
> Are they friendly spirits?
>
> Friendly, just listen!
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Monday, March 2, 2020 3:34 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>
>
>
> before the end of march it will clear 30, it will go as high ad 35 or 35
> then correct to 29-31. The media nazis will blame every down on the current
> executive and say the current executive owns the market from here out, just
> like they did in the last dip. then every upstroke will be the former
> executives win. dumb
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 3:30 PM  wrote:
>
> 5.09%
>
> Hopefully not a dead cat bounce.  I think it is going to continue to
> rise.
>
>
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
>
> *Sent:* Monday, March 2, 2020 1:51 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>
>
>
> Theyre going too far now:
>
> Market Summary
> 
> > Dow Jones Industrial Average
>
> INDEXDJX: .DJI
>
> Follow
>
> 26,532.48 +1,123.12 (4.42%)
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 12:16 PM Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
> & that's the Steve I love to read!  Thanks, I needed a grin...
>
> On 03/02/2020 10:13 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
> > Thats why i keep all my money tied up in debt. Market fluctuations dont
> > impact it. If i owe a dollar today, i owe a dollar tomorrow, no matter
> > what the markets do. I should really become an investment advisor
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 2, 2020, 11:54 AM Adam Moffett  >  >> wrote:
> >
> > The point of the stock market is to invest in a company that you
> > think will grow and succeed.  People making money on day to day
> > price fluctuations are really skimming money /out/ of the market IMO.
> >
> > also don't most (non-HFT) day traders lose money?
> >
> >
> > On 3/2/2020 12:48 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
> >> Look at what happened to the market before the great depression,
> >> there was a month of up and downs while the market was being
> >> propped/played before the floor fell out.   Historically the
> >> market has always had a major crash withing the first two decades
> >> of each century 1800,1900,2000's now?  The market making major
> >> moves is where all the real money is made.  Way more than steady
> >> growth.
> >>
> >> On 03/02/2020 09:06 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
> >>> So much money being made today
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 10:39 AM Steve Jones
> >>> mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
> mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
> >>> 
> >>> >
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> 26,070.31+660.95 (2.60%)
> >>> Remember, I said 700 today
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 10:31 AM Jaime Solorza
> >>> mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com
> mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>>
> >>> 
> >>> >
> wrote:
> >>>
> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[castarritt .]

You're getting ripped off bro.  Thanks to credit card companies, the one
dollar I put into debt yesterday is worth TWO dollars today!


On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 12:14 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Thats why i keep all my money tied up in debt. Market fluctuations dont
> impact it. If i owe a dollar today, i owe a dollar tomorrow, no matter what
> the markets do. I should really become an investment advisor
>
> On Mon, Mar 2, 2020, 11:54 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> The point of the stock market is to invest in a company that you think
>> will grow and succeed.  People making money on day to day price
>> fluctuations are really skimming money *out* of the market IMO.
>>
>> also don't most (non-HFT) day traders lose money?
>>
>>
>> On 3/2/2020 12:48 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>
>> Look at what happened to the market before the great depression, there
>> was a month of up and downs while the market was being propped/played
>> before the floor fell out.   Historically the market has always had a major
>> crash withing the first two decades of each century 1800,1900,2000's now?
>> The market making major moves is where all the real money is made.  Way
>> more than steady growth.
>>
>> On 03/02/2020 09:06 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> So much money being made today
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 10:39 AM Steve Jones >  > wrote:
>>
>> 26,070.31+660.95 (2.60%)
>> Remember, I said 700 today
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 10:31 AM Jaime Solorza
>> mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>>
>> You mean the Trump Slump?  lolololololololol   too easy
>> Jaime Solorza
>> Wireless Systems Architect
>> 915-861-1390
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 3:38 PM >  > wrote:
>>
>> How long before the stock market recovers.  Stats would
>> suggest 4 months.
>> But if the virus actually becomes a “thing”, like the sky is
>> falling thing,  I am sure that will extend this correction.
>> -- AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com  
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> -- AF mailing list
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

[castarritt .]

My respirator is rated to stop 95% of one petahertz.


On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:32 PM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> Make sure you change your RF Filters.
>
> On Feb 25, 2020, at 5:00 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> if corona virus hits the internet, it wont be able to survive the filth
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 1:18 PM Colin Stanners 
> wrote:
>
>> If the coronavirus somehow becomes able to spread via the internet,
>> humanity is done for.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 11:19 AM Robert  wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, the cruise ship resulted in them changing it to aerosolized in
>>> propagation...
>>>
>>> On 2/25/20 8:02 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>
>>> Recirculating air would not be a vector, as it's been established this
>>> virus is not airborne, except by physical droplets. It's all about what/who
>>> you touch or get over-spray from nearby coughs and sneezes.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/24/2020 7:57 PM, Robert wrote:
>>>
>>> Very similar to an Commercial airliner with 80 percent recirculation...
>>>
>>> On 2/24/20 8:17 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>
>>> A cruise ship is like a 5,000 seat petri dish.
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/23/2020 11:05 AM, Robert wrote:
>>>
>>> Hmmm, I don't think they used trench/squat toilets on the cruise ship,
>>> I'm pretty sure they don't use them in S. Korea and a severe case
>>> percentage of 20% and confirmed death rate _by WHO_ of 2% vs .1 percent for
>>> flu is apples and oranges.   But you keep telling yourself what makes you
>>> feel safe.   Keep drinking the koolaid while the long storage food supplies
>>> are bought up.( check on Amazon what's still available vs. sold out
>>> ).   Let's see what the numbers are in S. Korea NEXT Sunday. and see what
>>> modern medicine can do.
>>>
>>> On 2/23/20 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>
>>> [TINHATOFF]
>>>
>>> It still after several weeks looks way overblown. It's beginning to look
>>> like the trench/squat toilets common in China (and not most other places)
>>> is the major disease vector.
>>>
>>> Total cases in the US is only 35 individuals, and ZERO deaths.
>>>
>>> Contrast this to the latest US-only flu data
>>> , with 29 million infections
>>> and 16,000 deaths. I think we are paying attention to the wrong things  (so
>>> what's new about that?).
>>>
>>> [/TINHATOFF]
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/23/2020 9:40 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>
>>> Experts are starting to say it’s time to prepare for a pandemic, and
>>> that containment didn’t fail, containment was hopeless from the start.
>>> More communicable than SARS, more deadly than seasonal flu.  Still remains
>>> to be seen how it plays out in countries with better (and worse) healthcare
>>> systems than China, but it’s gonna spread worldwide.  Masks, thermometers
>>> and quarantine don’t seem to be magic bullets.  Buy lots of hand soap, and
>>> stay off cruise ships.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.vox.com/2020/2/23/21149327/coronavirus-pandemic-meaning-italy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF   *On
>>> Behalf Of *Colin Stanners
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 23, 2020 12:58 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  It seems that America's enemies know that the best way to
>>> have America's economy crumble is to let the Trump rallies go on fully
>>> unimpeded. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A kill rate of 2% seems small as statistic, but that's still a few
>>> thousand currently dead, including many medical staff, who are being
>>> mourned by their friends and families. It's likely that the number of
>>> people killed by coronavirus will surpass that of the 9/11 attacks shortly.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Most frightening is that with its virulence, if uncontrolled it could
>>> infect or have infected millions or much more, then suddenly that 2% dead
>>> becomes unimaginable.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 11:55 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> You dont think releasing something as hyped up as kungflu at a major
>>> public gathering, especially a trump rally wouldnt be a major terror
>>> success? CNN and MSNBC would be advertising for the terrorists 24/7. By the
>>> time they were done with it, it could have killed zero people, and everyone
>>> would still be hid out in their house listening to their propaganda. Our
>>> economy would crumble
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 9:14 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>>
>>> Not for me. So far it has mostly been meh.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/22/2020 6:48 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>
>>> As a terror weapon it would be perfect
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 8:11 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>>
>>> Kill rate is far too low to be considered a bio-weapon. Kill rate needs
>>> to be over 30%.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT - rocket daredevil Mike Hughes dies

[castarritt .]

I am also a supporter of the flat flat earther theory.


On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:02 AM  wrote:

> I have not found any photos or videos of the impact site.  I would like to
> see how compressed everything got.  Looked like is smacked/pancaked pretty
> hard.
>
> *From:* Caleb Knauer
> *Sent:* Monday, February 24, 2020 9:46 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - rocket daredevil Mike Hughes dies
>
> Seems to be the building consensus.  Saw the video of the launch and
> subsequent crater, kind of morbid.  Whackadoodle for sure, hopefully he
> passed out at launch as suspected and didn't see the full ride to the end.
>
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:40 AM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> I think he probably really just got into the whole flat earth thing
>> because he figured out that flat-earthers were crazy enough to give him
>> money to build rockets...
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 10:04 AM Adam Moffett 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> If he didn't die in a crash he would have died in a steam explosion.  He
>>> was destined to kill himself with this.
>>>
>>> And yeahhis stated goal seems to be several kinds of baffling.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/24/2020 11:00 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
>>>
>>> Cant you even see the earth curvature at 5K feet?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> HE could easily  drove to the nearest peak…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Darwin Lifetime achievement award for 2020
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Gino*
>>> *Villarini *Founder/President
>>> @gvillarini
>>> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
>>> m:
>>> [image: aeronet-logo]  [image: inc500]
>>>  [image: fb-logo]
>>>   [image: insta-logo]
>>>   [image: in-logo]
>>>   [image:
>>> tw-logo]
>>> 
>>>   [image: yt-logo]
>>> 
>>> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>>>
>>> *From: *AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com on behalf of CBB Fuller
>>> mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net
>>> *Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Date: *Sunday, February 23, 2020 at 12:04 PM
>>> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT - rocket daredevil Mike Hughes dies
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah. When I heard he was building a rocket to go 5,000 feet in the air
>>> to prove the world was flat all I could think was "dude, a plane ticket
>>> would be cheaper.".
>>>
>>> Bill Prince wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Wasn't he the flat-earther who thought if you got high enough, you
>>> > would see for yourself how flat the earth actually was? The ironic
>>> > thing is that a commercial airliner could climb higher than his rocket.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > bp
>>> > 
>>> >
>>> > On 2/23/2020 4:16 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/daredevil-mad-mike-hughes-dies-homemade-rocket-launch-filmed-tv-n1141286
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Jay Weekley*
>>> *Cyber Broadband
>>> *
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] 450 vs LTE NLoS

[castarritt .]

I am planning to avoid any nlos installs after what happened with 3.65
WiMAX, which worked great for us right until there was the slightest hint
of noise, at which point it all fell apart.  I predict nlos on CBRS GAA to
also become a crap shoot once everyone starts deploying their gear.  Even
the PAL holders are only getting something like a -96 dBm "guaranteed"
noise floor.

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 2:32 PM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> Has anyone done any comparison as to how the 450 compares to LTE with
> regards to usable signal in a NLoS situation?
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Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance

[castarritt .]

The other important question is if we can count on getting a
contiguous 40mhz channel from the SAS, much less two of them to run a full
cluster of 450m in ABAB.

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 8:59 AM Matt Mangriotis via AF 
wrote:

> Using 450i or 450b on the SM (client) side, a real world aggregate speed
> test can be as high as 250 Mbps. If you have cnMeudsa (450m AP) for the
> sector, you can achieve >750 Mbps (theoretically up to 1 Gbps, but I would
> be lying to tell you I have ever seen this kind of efficiency in the real
> world) sector capacity due to the Multi-User MIMO capabilities (i.e.
> simultaneous transmissions to up to 4 clients in the same time slot).
>
>
>
> Running under Part 90 or Part 96 does not affect the system performance
> (provided the channel size is the same, of course).
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Peter Kranz via AF
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2020 6:31 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Cc:* Peter Kranz 
> *Subject:* [ External ] [AFMUG] 450m in 3.5Ghz max STA performance
>
>
>
> What is the real world expected station performance in a TCP speedtest
> running a 40Mhz channel with a 450m running the CBRS software?
>
>
>
>
> *Peter Kranz *www.UnwiredLtd.com
> 
> Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
> Mobile: 510-207-
> pkr...@unwiredltd.com
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] End users contacting Provider consultants

[castarritt .]

Social media one-star review incoming.

On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 7:33 AM Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> Priceless.
>
> On Thu, Feb 20, 2020, 12:27 AM Timothy Steele 
> wrote:
>
>> So I just had an odd experience
>>
>>
>> an end-user contacted me via my website wispconsult.com
>>
>> she used my site chat to leave her phone number said she had a network
>> issue and to call her
>>
>> I called back within 15min and left a voice mail I also sent her an email
>>
>> she then sends me an email 10 minutes later yelling saying my site says
>> 24hrs her internet is down and I have not replied in 2 days
>>
>> Then Asked her to contact her provider
>>
>>
>> So if any of you have a Karen with the first half of her email address
>> being *finkeland Than her service is down*
>> * (her phone number puts her in the new york area)*
>>
>> *also sorry you have a Karen that lives up to her name*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] leaning tower of Dallas

[castarritt .]

Wind loading? Hell, it looks like that elevator shaft was rated for blast
overpressure.  The dish is even painted anti-flash white.

On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 11:19 AM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

> Which one of you geniuses did the wind loading calc for that structure?
>
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 9:44 AM  wrote:
>
>> Radiation pressure is causing the building to tilt.
>>
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 18, 2020 8:32 AM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] leaning tower of Dallas
>>
>>
>> Am I the only one who looked at the photos and saw the big microwave dish
>> on the roof?  There’s your problem.
>>
>> --
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>>
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>>
>
>
> --
>
> Carl Peterson
>
> *PORT NETWORKS*
>
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>
> Baltimore, MD 21202
>
> (410) 637-3707
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Re: [AFMUG] OT - Airbus 380 landing in Storm Dennis crosswind

[castarritt .]

Just look out the starboard row of windows if you want to see where the
airplane is going.

On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 9:33 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> Don't the airbus's also have that tail mounted camera that you can watch
> on the IFE?  I wonder if they turn it off during times like that.
>
> On 2/17/2020 6:38 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> > I was not aware the B52 has swiveling landing gear, I had to look it up.
> > There are some videos of them landing in crosswinds.
> >
> > Introduced in 1955 and still an impressive machine.
> >
> > Both the A380 and the B52 should be too big to do stuff like that.  I
> guess
> > the A380 is more impressive because that was apparently a commercial
> flight
> > with passengers on board.
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
> > Sent: Monday, February 17, 2020 6:25 PM
> > To: af@af.afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - Airbus 380 landing in Storm Dennis crosswind
> >
> > When you wish your airliner had B-52 landing gear.   Although I suspect
> > that angle exceeded the capabilities of even a B-52 for xwind.   That
> > was probably _Way_ outside the demonstrated capability in the aircraft
> > manual.
> >
> > On 02/17/2020 04:02 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> >> OK this is totally off topic, but watch this crazy landing at Heathrow:
> >>
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I473iDkCIYE=youtu.be
> >>
> >> "If you can walk away from a landing, it's a good landing. If you use
> >> the airplane the next day, it's an outstanding landing."
> >>
> >> - Chuck Yeager
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > --
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> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Thermodynamics Question

[castarritt .]

It is the same energy either way, but it might matter where that energy
goes.  If you leave the door closed, more of the energy is going to be
transferred radiantly to surfaces like the floor, walls, or ceiling where
it will just get conducted to the outside world without really raising the
inside air temperature as much as opening the door and letting the air
circulate through the oven.

On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 2:25 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> the closed oven is heavily insulated. The dissipated heat energy is much
> less. it will never hit the room air at much more than ambient temp. so it
> will lose all inertia faster and not radiate the heat as far. If you open
> the door, it will change the ambient temp and transfer the stored energy to
> surrounding surfaces, more likely to make it to the thermostat. I guess a
> lot depends on where the thermostat is too.
>
> My oven is super efficient, other than when its venting, you dont know its
> on, no matter the temperature its set to, for all i know its dissipating
> the heat into the electrical cord
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 2:18 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> But if the same energy is going in the room, won't it have the same
>> effect, Door open/shut?  The furnace may still run it's normal cycle, but
>> should run for less?  My gut says opening the door is better, but I'm
>> trying to think through the Math, and it's saying no.
>>
>> On 2/14/2020 2:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> Is that like the old puzzler about when to add the cream to your coffee?
>>
>> https://modernistcuisine.com/2012/12/the-physics-of-coffee-cream/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF   *On
>> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Friday, February 14, 2020 2:00 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Thermodynamics Question
>>
>>
>>
>> your net energy consumption will be lessened by opening the door. with it
>> closed it wont change the ambient temperature enough to affect the
>> thermostat thresholds. With it open, it may raise them enough to delay or
>> skip a heating cycle.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 1:53 PM David Coudron <
>> david.coud...@advantenon.com> wrote:
>>
>> We always leave it open, figuring more makes it into the room rather than
>> getting absorbed by surrounding cabinets, etc.   Probably same net effect
>> as you say.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
>> Sent: Friday, February 14, 2020 1:46 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com>
>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Thermodynamics Question
>>
>> We're in the single digits in chicagoland today, and I just made my self
>> lunch in my oven.
>>
>> The oven is electric, so there is no outside vent.  After I'm done,
>> should I open the oven door, to let the heat into the room quickly, or keep
>> it closed so that it radiates heat for longer?
>>
>> I think that the math says that the same energy will be put into the
>> environment regardless, since there is nowhere else for it to go. So will
>> the room be warmed by the same amount if i keep the door closed vs open?
>>
>> The things I think about when I'm hungry
>>
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