subject:"Re\: \[AFMUG\] OT\: Major off topic. Off grid home"

Unless it's Solar, in which case you need to spread the sunk cost over 
the time of return, which can get darn cheap!!


On 1/20/22 7:46 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
That said, the last time I checked, propane and wood pellets cost half 
that of electricity for heating.  And natural gas was half that 
again.  So natural gas vs electric heat pump for heating would 
probably be the same energy cost.

*From:* Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 8:40 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
3.41 BTU per watt for resistive heating.  Heat pump gives you way more 
heat per watt.  That is why most of the electric cars have gone to 
heat pumps for the heater.  The heat pump Tesla will run the heater 
for 36 hours and still leave you with enough battery to get home in 
many cases.

Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench-blades.com
www.terabitnetworks.com
*From:* Robert
*Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 7:11 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
The $800 mini-splits I am looking at put out about 6K BTU's of heat on 
400 Watts.  The home depot $300 heaters put out 5K BTU's but require 
1500 watts..   Not going to do well in the winter overnight off 
grid...   And no a/c in the summer...


On 1/20/22 5:53 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:


$1895?  For a one room ac/heater?  Home Depot has something similar 
for $300.  Is it the decal? Hood ornament?


On 1/19/22 05:13, Zach Underwood wrote:
If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at 
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/

It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your inverter
IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the cool/heat 
output to match the power it is getting PV

It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC connection.
On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert  wrote:

I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another
in the
future somewhere more northerly..    This one is in the sunbelt
of N.
Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP
battery bank
through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight
solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of
110.  (
the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly
configured for such. )    I am upgrading the inverters and
controller to
a

https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt

planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.

I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in
advance before I buy myself into a corner...    I'm all ears..

thanks!!

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website <http://zachunderwood.me>
advance-networking.com <http://advance-networking.com>






--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-20 Thread castarritt

It is a decent amount of air that needs to be exchanged, but in a passive
house, it is done through a heat exchanger to recover some of the heat
being exhausted rather than just letting it leak out various openings.

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 3:34 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> The rate at which outdoor air replaces indoor air is described as the air
> exchange rate.  ASHRAE  (formerly called the American Society of Heating,
> Refrigerating and Air-Conditioning Engineers) recommends (in its Standard
> 62.2-2016, *"Ventilation and Acceptable Indoor Air Quality in Residential
> Buildings"*) that homes receive 0.35 air changes per hour  but not less
> than 15 cubic feet of air per minute (cfm) per person. as the minimum
> ventilation rates in residential buildings in order to provide IAQ that is
> acceptable to human occupants and that minimizes adverse health effects.
> ASHRAE also suggests intermittent exhaust capacities for kitchens and
> bathroom exhaust to help control pollutant levels and moisture in those
> rooms. ASHRAE also notes that "dwellings with tight enclosures may require
> supplemental ventilation supply for fuel-burning appliances, including
> fireplaces and mechanically exhausted appliances.
>
> That is a lot of air, sounds like a large open window.  not less than 15
> cubic feet per person.  I don't much care for the smell of chip-board,
> gives me a headache and yet that's all these freaky new houses are made of.
> On 1/20/22 12:51, castarritt wrote:
>
> These days, people building for extreme energy efficiency will seal the
> building envelope as much as possible, and then install a heat recovery
> ventilation system.
>
> On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 2:26 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>
>> I recall reading about houses requiring so many air changes per hour
>> before they become unhealthy to live in.  This article was written many
>> years/decades ago.  I wonder if the standards for a healthy house has
>> changed?
>> On 1/20/22 09:54, Andy Trimmell wrote:
>>
>> My dad was just talking about walls like this and we’re in Indiana. I
>> don’t know where he heard it from but the guy did it about 20 years ago
>> here. He said he had to open the door because they were running out of
>> oxygen  LOL
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:46 PM
>> *To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
>>
>>
>>
>> Double walls, so really there are three cavities.  Two walls with an air
>> space between them.  Insulation and vapor barrier on the outer and inner
>> wall with triple glazed windows.  I read a report on these homes being
>> built in Canada.  They didn’t need much heat.
>>
>>
>>
>> Chuck McCown
>> McCown Technology Corporation
>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>> 801-250-9503
>> 435-830-4306 cell
>> www.mccowntech.com
>> www.microtrench-blades.com
>> www.terabitnetworks.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:32 AM
>>
>> *To:* ch...@go-mtc.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>
>> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
>>
>>
>>
>> I’ve wondered how long firewood wood really last if everyone was trying
>> to use it.  Wasn’t there a firewood crisis in the 19th century before
>> they started using coal for everything?
>>
>> I think reliance on firewood in the apocalypse comes with an implicit
>> assumption that everybody else died. If they haven’t died yet then expect
>> competition.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don’t worry too much about water.  You can’t go anywhere in the
>> Northeast without tripping over a stream or a spring.  If the spring water
>> is contaminated then so is the well water and you’re screwed either way.
>>
>>
>>
>> How much is triple insulation?  Does that mean R57 in the walls instead
>> of R19?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ch...@go-mtc.com  
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:09 PM
>> *To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>  
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
>>
>>
>>
>> Triple insulated home can be heated by only the bodies inside.
>>
>> Most areas (other than where I live) there may be wood to burn.  You
>> could always use a parabolic solar cooker for cooking.
>>
>> Solar hydronic.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

The rate at which outdoor air replaces indoor air is described as the 
air exchange rate.  ASHRAE  (formerly called the American Society of 
Heating, Refrigerating and Air-Conditioning Engineers) recommends (in 
its Standard 62.2-2016, *"Ventilation and Acceptable Indoor Air Quality 
in Residential Buildings"*) that homes receive 0.35 air changes per hour 
 but not less than 15 cubic feet of air per minute (cfm) per person. as 
the minimum ventilation rates in residential buildings in order to 
provide IAQ that is acceptable to human occupants and that minimizes 
adverse health effects. ASHRAE also suggests intermittent exhaust 
capacities for kitchens and bathroom exhaust to help control pollutant 
levels and moisture in those rooms. ASHRAE also notes that "dwellings 
with tight enclosures may require supplemental ventilation supply for 
fuel-burning appliances, including fireplaces and mechanically exhausted 
appliances.


That is a lot of air, sounds like a large open window.  not less than 15 
cubic feet per person.  I don't much care for the smell of chip-board, 
gives me a headache and yet that's all these freaky new houses are made of.


On 1/20/22 12:51, castarritt wrote:
These days, people building for extreme energy efficiency will seal 
the building envelope as much as possible, and then install a heat 
recovery ventilation system.


On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 2:26 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

I recall reading about houses requiring so many air changes per
hour before they become unhealthy to live in. This article was
written many years/decades ago.  I wonder if the standards for a
healthy house has changed?

On 1/20/22 09:54, Andy Trimmell wrote:


My dad was just talking about walls like this and we’re in
Indiana. I don’t know where he heard it from but the guy did it
about 20 years ago here. He said he had to open the door because
they were running out of oxygen  LOL

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:46 PM
*To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

Double walls, so really there are three cavities. Two walls with
an air space between them. Insulation and vapor barrier on the
outer and inner wall with triple glazed windows.  I read a report
on these homes being built in Canada.  They didn’t need much heat.

Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell
www.mccowntech.com <http://www.mccowntech.com>
www.microtrench-blades.com <http://www.microtrench-blades.com>
www.terabitnetworks.com <http://www.terabitnetworks.com>

*From:*dmmoff...@gmail.com

*Sent:*Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:32 AM

*To:*ch...@go-mtc.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

    *Subject:*RE: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

I’ve wondered how long firewood wood really last if everyone was
trying to use it.  Wasn’t there a firewood crisis in the 19^th
century before they started using coal for everything?

I think reliance on firewood in the apocalypse comes with an
implicit assumption that everybody else died. If they haven’t
died yet then expect competition.

I don’t worry too much about water.  You can’t go anywhere in the
Northeast without tripping over a stream or a spring.  If the
spring water is contaminated then so is the well water and you’re
screwed either way.

How much is triple insulation?  Does that mean R57 in the walls
instead of R19?

*From:*ch...@go-mtc.com  <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:09 PM
*To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
     <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

Triple insulated home can be heated by only the bodies inside.

Most areas (other than where I live) there may be wood to burn. 
You could always use a parabolic solar cooker for cooking.

Solar hydronic.  Solar electric.  Water is the huge thing.  Need
to pump a well.

I think move to the tropics where you can eat off the land/sea
and run around naked all the time.  That is a good solution to
the end of the world.

Not much of a prepper anymore.  Too old I guess.  Plus I have an
odd condition where I don’t get hungry.  So I could starve to
death without much suffering.

*From:*dmmoff...@gmail.com

*Sent:*Thursday, January 20, 2022 9:44 AM

*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

    *Cc:*ch...@go-mtc.com

*Subject:*RE: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

Maybe it’s a matter of being self-reliant until your solar panels
break vs being self-rel

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-20 Thread castarritt

These days, people building for extreme energy efficiency will seal the
building envelope as much as possible, and then install a heat recovery
ventilation system.

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 2:26 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> I recall reading about houses requiring so many air changes per hour
> before they become unhealthy to live in.  This article was written many
> years/decades ago.  I wonder if the standards for a healthy house has
> changed?
> On 1/20/22 09:54, Andy Trimmell wrote:
>
> My dad was just talking about walls like this and we’re in Indiana. I
> don’t know where he heard it from but the guy did it about 20 years ago
> here. He said he had to open the door because they were running out of
> oxygen  LOL
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:46 PM
> *To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
>
>
>
> Double walls, so really there are three cavities.  Two walls with an air
> space between them.  Insulation and vapor barrier on the outer and inner
> wall with triple glazed windows.  I read a report on these homes being
> built in Canada.  They didn’t need much heat.
>
>
>
> Chuck McCown
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503
> 435-830-4306 cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench-blades.com
> www.terabitnetworks.com
>
>
>
> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:32 AM
>
> *To:* ch...@go-mtc.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
>
>
>
> I’ve wondered how long firewood wood really last if everyone was trying to
> use it.  Wasn’t there a firewood crisis in the 19th century before they
> started using coal for everything?
>
> I think reliance on firewood in the apocalypse comes with an implicit
> assumption that everybody else died. If they haven’t died yet then expect
> competition.
>
>
>
> I don’t worry too much about water.  You can’t go anywhere in the
> Northeast without tripping over a stream or a spring.  If the spring water
> is contaminated then so is the well water and you’re screwed either way.
>
>
>
> How much is triple insulation?  Does that mean R57 in the walls instead of
> R19?
>
>
>
> *From:* ch...@go-mtc.com  
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:09 PM
> *To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
>
>
>
> Triple insulated home can be heated by only the bodies inside.
>
> Most areas (other than where I live) there may be wood to burn.  You could
> always use a parabolic solar cooker for cooking.
>
> Solar hydronic.  Solar electric.  Water is the huge thing.  Need to pump a
> well.
>
>
>
> I think move to the tropics where you can eat off the land/sea and run
> around naked all the time.  That is a good solution to the end of the
> world.
>
>
>
> Not much of a prepper anymore.  Too old I guess.  Plus I have an odd
> condition where I don’t get hungry.  So I could starve to death without
> much suffering.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 9:44 AM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>
> *Subject:* RE: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
>
>
>
> Maybe it’s a matter of being self-reliant until your solar panels break vs
> being self-reliant until your fuel runs out.  Years vs months.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:47 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
>
>
>
> That said, the last time I checked, propane and wood pellets cost half
> that of electricity for heating.  And natural gas was half that again.  So
> natural gas vs electric heat pump for heating would probably be the same
> energy cost.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 8:40 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
>
>
>
> 3.41 BTU per watt for resistive heating.  Heat pump gives you way more
> heat per watt.  That is why most of the electric cars have gone to heat
> pumps for the heater.  The heat pump Tesla will run the heater for 36 hours
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-20 Thread Nate Burke

Wasn't there a story several years about a house explosion, the house 
was hit by lightening and started a smouldering fire, but there wasn't 
enough oxygen in the house for it to break out, when the garage door was 
opened, air rushed in and POOF.


On 1/20/2022 2:25 PM, Jan-GAMs wrote:


I recall reading about houses requiring so many air changes per hour 
before they become unhealthy to live in.  This article was written 
many years/decades ago.  I wonder if the standards for a healthy house 
has changed?


On 1/20/22 09:54, Andy Trimmell wrote:


My dad was just talking about walls like this and we’re in Indiana. I 
don’t know where he heard it from but the guy did it about 20 years 
ago here. He said he had to open the door because they were running 
out of oxygen  LOL


*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck 
McCown via AF

*Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:46 PM
*To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

Double walls, so really there are three cavities.  Two walls with an 
air space between them.  Insulation and vapor barrier on the outer 
and inner wall with triple glazed windows.  I read a report on these 
homes being built in Canada.  They didn’t need much heat.


Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench-blades.com
www.terabitnetworks.com

*From:*dmmoff...@gmail.com

*Sent:*Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:32 AM

*To:*ch...@go-mtc.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

*Subject:*RE: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

I’ve wondered how long firewood wood really last if everyone was 
trying to use it.  Wasn’t there a firewood crisis in the 19^th 
century before they started using coal for everything?


I think reliance on firewood in the apocalypse comes with an implicit 
assumption that everybody else died. If they haven’t died yet then 
expect competition.


I don’t worry too much about water.  You can’t go anywhere in the 
Northeast without tripping over a stream or a spring.  If the spring 
water is contaminated then so is the well water and you’re screwed 
either way.


How much is triple insulation?  Does that mean R57 in the walls 
instead of R19?


*From:*ch...@go-mtc.com 
*Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:09 PM
*To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 


*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

Triple insulated home can be heated by only the bodies inside.

Most areas (other than where I live) there may be wood to burn.  You 
could always use a parabolic solar cooker for cooking.


Solar hydronic.  Solar electric.  Water is the huge thing.  Need to 
pump a well.


I think move to the tropics where you can eat off the land/sea and 
run around naked all the time. That is a good solution to the end of 
the world.


Not much of a prepper anymore.  Too old I guess.  Plus I have an odd 
condition where I don’t get hungry.  So I could starve to death 
without much suffering.


*From:*dmmoff...@gmail.com

*Sent:*Thursday, January 20, 2022 9:44 AM

*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

*Cc:*ch...@go-mtc.com

*Subject:*RE: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

Maybe it’s a matter of being self-reliant until your solar panels 
break vs being self-reliant until your fuel runs out.  Years vs months.


*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:47 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

That said, the last time I checked, propane and wood pellets cost 
half that of electricity for heating.  And natural gas was half that 
again.  So natural gas vs electric heat pump for heating would 
probably be the same energy cost.


*From:*Chuck McCown via AF

*Sent:*Thursday, January 20, 2022 8:40 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Cc:*ch...@go-mtc.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

3.41 BTU per watt for resistive heating.  Heat pump gives you way 
more heat per watt.  That is why most of the electric cars have gone 
to heat pumps for the heater.  The heat pump Tesla will run the 
heater for 36 hours and still leave you with enough battery to get 
home in many cases.


Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell
www.mccowntech.com <http://www.mccowntech.com>
www.microtrench-blades.com <http://www.microtrench-blades.com>
www.terabitnetworks.com <http://www.terabitnetworks.com>

*From:*Robert

*Sent:*Thursday, January 20, 2022 7:11 AM

*To:*af@af.afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

The $800 mini-splits I am looking at put out about 6K BTU's of heat 
on 400 Watts.  The home depot $300 heaters put out 5K BTU's but 
require 1500 watts..   No

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

I recall reading about houses requiring so many air changes per hour 
before they become unhealthy to live in.  This article was written many 
years/decades ago.  I wonder if the standards for a healthy house has 
changed?


On 1/20/22 09:54, Andy Trimmell wrote:


My dad was just talking about walls like this and we’re in Indiana. I 
don’t know where he heard it from but the guy did it about 20 years 
ago here. He said he had to open the door because they were running 
out of oxygen  LOL


*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown 
via AF

*Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:46 PM
*To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

Double walls, so really there are three cavities.  Two walls with an 
air space between them.  Insulation and vapor barrier on the outer and 
inner wall with triple glazed windows.  I read a report on these homes 
being built in Canada.  They didn’t need much heat.


Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench-blades.com
www.terabitnetworks.com

*From:*dmmoff...@gmail.com

*Sent:*Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:32 AM

*To:*ch...@go-mtc.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

*Subject:*RE: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

I’ve wondered how long firewood wood really last if everyone was 
trying to use it.  Wasn’t there a firewood crisis in the 19^th century 
before they started using coal for everything?


I think reliance on firewood in the apocalypse comes with an implicit 
assumption that everybody else died. If they haven’t died yet then 
expect competition.


I don’t worry too much about water.  You can’t go anywhere in the 
Northeast without tripping over a stream or a spring.  If the spring 
water is contaminated then so is the well water and you’re screwed 
either way.


How much is triple insulation?  Does that mean R57 in the walls 
instead of R19?


*From:*ch...@go-mtc.com 
*Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:09 PM
*To:* dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 


*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

Triple insulated home can be heated by only the bodies inside.

Most areas (other than where I live) there may be wood to burn.  You 
could always use a parabolic solar cooker for cooking.


Solar hydronic.  Solar electric.  Water is the huge thing.  Need to 
pump a well.


I think move to the tropics where you can eat off the land/sea and run 
around naked all the time. That is a good solution to the end of the 
world.


Not much of a prepper anymore.  Too old I guess.  Plus I have an odd 
condition where I don’t get hungry. So I could starve to death without 
much suffering.


*From:*dmmoff...@gmail.com

*Sent:*Thursday, January 20, 2022 9:44 AM

*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

*Cc:*ch...@go-mtc.com

*Subject:*RE: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

Maybe it’s a matter of being self-reliant until your solar panels 
break vs being self-reliant until your fuel runs out.  Years vs months.


*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:47 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

That said, the last time I checked, propane and wood pellets cost half 
that of electricity for heating.  And natural gas was half that 
again.  So natural gas vs electric heat pump for heating would 
probably be the same energy cost.


*From:*Chuck McCown via AF

*Sent:*Thursday, January 20, 2022 8:40 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Cc:*ch...@go-mtc.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

3.41 BTU per watt for resistive heating. Heat pump gives you way more 
heat per watt.  That is why most of the electric cars have gone to 
heat pumps for the heater.  The heat pump Tesla will run the heater 
for 36 hours and still leave you with enough battery to get home in 
many cases.


Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell
www.mccowntech.com <http://www.mccowntech.com>
www.microtrench-blades.com <http://www.microtrench-blades.com>
www.terabitnetworks.com <http://www.terabitnetworks.com>

*From:*Robert

*Sent:*Thursday, January 20, 2022 7:11 AM

*To:*af@af.afmug.com

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

The $800 mini-splits I am looking at put out about 6K BTU's of heat on 
400 Watts.  The home depot $300 heaters put out 5K BTU's but require 
1500 watts..   Not going to do well in the winter overnight off 
grid... And no a/c in the summer...


On 1/20/22 5:53 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:

$1895? For a one room ac/heater?  Home Depot has something similar
for $300.  Is it the decal?  Hood ornament?

On 1/19/22 05:13, Zach Underwood wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

Yeah, that was a real thing.  I have two heat recovery ventilators to give me 
fresh air.  I don’t use them much.  One of them is zoned for the theater room 
and it is pretty nice to have fresh air gently blowing in there when we are 
using the room.   It doesn’t get much use either.  But the superbowl is coming 
up.

Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell 
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench-blades.com
www.terabitnetworks.com


From: Andy Trimmell 
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:54 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

My dad was just talking about walls like this and we’re in Indiana. I don’t 
know where he heard it from but the guy did it about 20 years ago here. He said 
he had to open the door because they were running out of oxygen  LOL

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:46 PM
To: dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

 

Double walls, so really there are three cavities.  Two walls with an air space 
between them.  Insulation and vapor barrier on the outer and inner wall with 
triple glazed windows.  I read a report on these homes being built in Canada.  
They didn’t need much heat.  

 

Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell 
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench-blades.com
www.terabitnetworks.com

 

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 

Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:32 AM

To: ch...@go-mtc.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

 

I’ve wondered how long firewood wood really last if everyone was trying to use 
it.  Wasn’t there a firewood crisis in the 19th century before they started 
using coal for everything? 

I think reliance on firewood in the apocalypse comes with an implicit 
assumption that everybody else died. If they haven’t died yet then expect 
competition. 

 

I don’t worry too much about water.  You can’t go anywhere in the Northeast 
without tripping over a stream or a spring.  If the spring water is 
contaminated then so is the well water and you’re screwed either way. 

 

How much is triple insulation?  Does that mean R57 in the walls instead of R19?

 

From: ch...@go-mtc.com  
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:09 PM
To: dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

 

Triple insulated home can be heated by only the bodies inside.  

Most areas (other than where I live) there may be wood to burn.  You could 
always use a parabolic solar cooker for cooking.  

Solar hydronic.  Solar electric.  Water is the huge thing.  Need to pump a 
well.  

 

I think move to the tropics where you can eat off the land/sea and run around 
naked all the time.  That is a good solution to the end of the world.  

 

Not much of a prepper anymore.  Too old I guess.  Plus I have an odd condition 
where I don’t get hungry.  So I could starve to death without much suffering.  

 

 

 

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 

Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 9:44 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com 

Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

 

Maybe it’s a matter of being self-reliant until your solar panels break vs 
being self-reliant until your fuel runs out.  Years vs months.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:47 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

 

That said, the last time I checked, propane and wood pellets cost half that of 
electricity for heating.  And natural gas was half that again.  So natural gas 
vs electric heat pump for heating would probably be the same energy cost.  

 

 

 

From: Chuck McCown via AF 

Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 8:40 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

 

3.41 BTU per watt for resistive heating.  Heat pump gives you way more heat per 
watt.  That is why most of the electric cars have gone to heat pumps for the 
heater.  The heat pump Tesla will run the heater for 36 hours and still leave 
you with enough battery to get home in many cases.  

 

Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell 
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench-blades.com
www.terabitnetworks.com

 

From: Robert 

Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 7:11 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

 

The $800 mini-splits I am looking at put out about 6K BTU's of heat on 400 
Watts.  The home depot $300 heaters put out 5K

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-20 Thread Andy Trimmell

My dad was just talking about walls like this and we’re in Indiana. I don’t 
know where he heard it from but the guy did it about 20 years ago here. He said 
he had to open the door because they were running out of oxygen  LOL

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:46 PM
To: dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

Double walls, so really there are three cavities.  Two walls with an air space 
between them.  Insulation and vapor barrier on the outer and inner wall with 
triple glazed windows.  I read a report on these homes being built in Canada.  
They didn’t need much heat.  

Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell 
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench-blades.com
www.terabitnetworks.com

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 

Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:32 AM

To: ch...@go-mtc.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

I’ve wondered how long firewood wood really last if everyone was trying to use 
it.  Wasn’t there a firewood crisis in the 19th century before they started 
using coal for everything? 

I think reliance on firewood in the apocalypse comes with an implicit 
assumption that everybody else died. If they haven’t died yet then expect 
competition. 

I don’t worry too much about water.  You can’t go anywhere in the Northeast 
without tripping over a stream or a spring.  If the spring water is 
contaminated then so is the well water and you’re screwed either way. 

How much is triple insulation?  Does that mean R57 in the walls instead of R19?

From: ch...@go-mtc.com  
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:09 PM
To: dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

Triple insulated home can be heated by only the bodies inside.  

Most areas (other than where I live) there may be wood to burn.  You could 
always use a parabolic solar cooker for cooking.  

Solar hydronic.  Solar electric.  Water is the huge thing.  Need to pump a 
well.  

I think move to the tropics where you can eat off the land/sea and run around 
naked all the time.  That is a good solution to the end of the world.  

Not much of a prepper anymore.  Too old I guess.  Plus I have an odd condition 
where I don’t get hungry.  So I could starve to death without much suffering.  

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 

Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 9:44 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com 

Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

Maybe it’s a matter of being self-reliant until your solar panels break vs 
being self-reliant until your fuel runs out.  Years vs months.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:47 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

That said, the last time I checked, propane and wood pellets cost half that of 
electricity for heating.  And natural gas was half that again.  So natural gas 
vs electric heat pump for heating would probably be the same energy cost.  

From: Chuck McCown via AF 

Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 8:40 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

3.41 BTU per watt for resistive heating.  Heat pump gives you way more heat per 
watt.  That is why most of the electric cars have gone to heat pumps for the 
heater.  The heat pump Tesla will run the heater for 36 hours and still leave 
you with enough battery to get home in many cases.  

Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell 
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench-blades.com
www.terabitnetworks.com

From: Robert 

Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 7:11 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

The $800 mini-splits I am looking at put out about 6K BTU's of heat on 400 
Watts.  The home depot $300 heaters put out 5K BTU's but require 1500 watts..   
Not going to do well in the winter overnight off grid...   And no a/c in the 
summer...

On 1/20/22 5:53 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:

$1895?  For a one room ac/heater?  Home Depot has something similar for 
$300.  Is it the decal?  Hood ornament?

On 1/19/22 05:13, Zach Underwood wrote:

If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at 
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/ 

It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your 
inverter

IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the 
cool/heat output to match the power

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

Double walls, so really there are three cavities.  Two walls with an air space 
between them.  Insulation and vapor barrier on the outer and inner wall with 
triple glazed windows.  I read a report on these homes being built in Canada.  
They didn’t need much heat.  

Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell 
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench-blades.com
www.terabitnetworks.com


From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:32 AM
To: ch...@go-mtc.com ; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

I’ve wondered how long firewood wood really last if everyone was trying to use 
it.  Wasn’t there a firewood crisis in the 19th century before they started 
using coal for everything? 

I think reliance on firewood in the apocalypse comes with an implicit 
assumption that everybody else died. If they haven’t died yet then expect 
competition. 

 

I don’t worry too much about water.  You can’t go anywhere in the Northeast 
without tripping over a stream or a spring.  If the spring water is 
contaminated then so is the well water and you’re screwed either way. 

 

How much is triple insulation?  Does that mean R57 in the walls instead of R19?

 

From: ch...@go-mtc.com  
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:09 PM
To: dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

 

Triple insulated home can be heated by only the bodies inside.  

Most areas (other than where I live) there may be wood to burn.  You could 
always use a parabolic solar cooker for cooking.  

Solar hydronic.  Solar electric.  Water is the huge thing.  Need to pump a 
well.  

 

I think move to the tropics where you can eat off the land/sea and run around 
naked all the time.  That is a good solution to the end of the world.  

 

Not much of a prepper anymore.  Too old I guess.  Plus I have an odd condition 
where I don’t get hungry.  So I could starve to death without much suffering.  

 

 

 

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 

Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 9:44 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com 

Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

 

Maybe it’s a matter of being self-reliant until your solar panels break vs 
being self-reliant until your fuel runs out.  Years vs months.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:47 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

 

That said, the last time I checked, propane and wood pellets cost half that of 
electricity for heating.  And natural gas was half that again.  So natural gas 
vs electric heat pump for heating would probably be the same energy cost.  

 

 

 

From: Chuck McCown via AF 

Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 8:40 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

 

3.41 BTU per watt for resistive heating.  Heat pump gives you way more heat per 
watt.  That is why most of the electric cars have gone to heat pumps for the 
heater.  The heat pump Tesla will run the heater for 36 hours and still leave 
you with enough battery to get home in many cases.  

 

Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell 
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench-blades.com
www.terabitnetworks.com

 

From: Robert 

Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 7:11 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

 

The $800 mini-splits I am looking at put out about 6K BTU's of heat on 400 
Watts.  The home depot $300 heaters put out 5K BTU's but require 1500 watts..   
Not going to do well in the winter overnight off grid...   And no a/c in the 
summer...

On 1/20/22 5:53 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:

  $1895?  For a one room ac/heater?  Home Depot has something similar for $300. 
 Is it the decal?  Hood ornament?

  On 1/19/22 05:13, Zach Underwood wrote:

If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at 
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/ 

It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your inverter

IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the cool/heat output 
to match the power it is getting PV

It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC connection.

 

 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert  wrote:

  I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in the 
  future somewhere more northerly..This one is in the sunbelt of N. 
  Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery bank 
  through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight 
  solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of 110

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-20 Thread dmmoffett

I’ve wondered how long firewood wood really last if everyone was trying to use 
it.  Wasn’t there a firewood crisis in the 19th century before they started 
using coal for everything? 

I think reliance on firewood in the apocalypse comes with an implicit 
assumption that everybody else died. If they haven’t died yet then expect 
competition. 

 

I don’t worry too much about water.  You can’t go anywhere in the Northeast 
without tripping over a stream or a spring.  If the spring water is 
contaminated then so is the well water and you’re screwed either way. 

 

How much is triple insulation?  Does that mean R57 in the walls instead of R19?

 

From: ch...@go-mtc.com  
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 12:09 PM
To: dmmoff...@gmail.com; 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

 

Triple insulated home can be heated by only the bodies inside.  

Most areas (other than where I live) there may be wood to burn.  You could 
always use a parabolic solar cooker for cooking.  

Solar hydronic.  Solar electric.  Water is the huge thing.  Need to pump a 
well.  

 

I think move to the tropics where you can eat off the land/sea and run around 
naked all the time.  That is a good solution to the end of the world.  

 

Not much of a prepper anymore.  Too old I guess.  Plus I have an odd condition 
where I don’t get hungry.  So I could starve to death without much suffering.  

 

 

 

From: dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>  

Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 9:44 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>  

Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

 

Maybe it’s a matter of being self-reliant until your solar panels break vs 
being self-reliant until your fuel runs out.  Years vs months.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:47 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

 

That said, the last time I checked, propane and wood pellets cost half that of 
electricity for heating.  And natural gas was half that again.  So natural gas 
vs electric heat pump for heating would probably be the same energy cost.  

 

 

 

From: Chuck McCown via AF 

Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 8:40 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

 

3.41 BTU per watt for resistive heating.  Heat pump gives you way more heat per 
watt.  That is why most of the electric cars have gone to heat pumps for the 
heater.  The heat pump Tesla will run the heater for 36 hours and still leave 
you with enough battery to get home in many cases.  

 

Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell 
www.mccowntech.com <http://www.mccowntech.com> 
www.microtrench-blades.com <http://www.microtrench-blades.com> 
www.terabitnetworks.com <http://www.terabitnetworks.com> 

 

From: Robert 

Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 7:11 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

 

The $800 mini-splits I am looking at put out about 6K BTU's of heat on 400 
Watts.  The home depot $300 heaters put out 5K BTU's but require 1500 watts..   
Not going to do well in the winter overnight off grid...   And no a/c in the 
summer...

On 1/20/22 5:53 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:

$1895?  For a one room ac/heater?  Home Depot has something similar for $300.  
Is it the decal?  Hood ornament?

On 1/19/22 05:13, Zach Underwood wrote:

If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at 
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/ 

It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your inverter

IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the cool/heat output to 
match the power it is getting PV

It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC connection.

 

 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> > wrote:

I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in the 
future somewhere more northerly..This one is in the sunbelt of N. 
Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery bank 
through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight 
solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of 110.  ( 
the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly 
configured for such. )I am upgrading the inverters and controller to 
a 
https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt

planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-20 Thread Robert Haas

My hunting property is 100% solar. 
I've got 2kw of panels and just a 3kw inverter/charger & 8kw of battery. 
I went with a growatt all-in-one unit for the charger/inverter. 

I run a pioneer 12k mini-split
(https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DVW6G06/?th=1) primarily for cooling
and use a wood stove for heating. I do use the heat-pump on occasion. 

Obviously I'm only there a few days at a time, if I were there longer I
would use Chuck's recommendations on the battery bank sizing as it is, I
could probably double my battery bank.



-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 6:08 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in the 
future somewhere more northerly..This one is in the sunbelt of N. 
Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery bank
through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight solar
inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of 110.  ( the 220
will not run the well controller even though supposedly 
configured for such. )I am upgrading the inverters and controller to 
a
https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250v
dc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt

planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.

I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in 
advance before I buy myself into a corner...I'm all ears..

thanks!!

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

Triple insulated home can be heated by only the bodies inside.  
Most areas (other than where I live) there may be wood to burn.  You could 
always use a parabolic solar cooker for cooking.  
Solar hydronic.  Solar electric.  Water is the huge thing.  Need to pump a 
well.  

I think move to the tropics where you can eat off the land/sea and run around 
naked all the time.  That is a good solution to the end of the world.  

Not much of a prepper anymore.  Too old I guess.  Plus I have an odd condition 
where I don’t get hungry.  So I could starve to death without much suffering.  



From: dmmoff...@gmail.com 
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 9:44 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com 
Subject: RE: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

Maybe it’s a matter of being self-reliant until your solar panels break vs 
being self-reliant until your fuel runs out.  Years vs months.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:47 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

 

That said, the last time I checked, propane and wood pellets cost half that of 
electricity for heating.  And natural gas was half that again.  So natural gas 
vs electric heat pump for heating would probably be the same energy cost.  

 

 

 

From: Chuck McCown via AF 

Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 8:40 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

 

3.41 BTU per watt for resistive heating.  Heat pump gives you way more heat per 
watt.  That is why most of the electric cars have gone to heat pumps for the 
heater.  The heat pump Tesla will run the heater for 36 hours and still leave 
you with enough battery to get home in many cases.  

 

Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell 
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench-blades.com
www.terabitnetworks.com

 

From: Robert 

Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 7:11 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

 

The $800 mini-splits I am looking at put out about 6K BTU's of heat on 400 
Watts.  The home depot $300 heaters put out 5K BTU's but require 1500 watts..   
Not going to do well in the winter overnight off grid...   And no a/c in the 
summer...

On 1/20/22 5:53 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:

  $1895?  For a one room ac/heater?  Home Depot has something similar for $300. 
 Is it the decal?  Hood ornament?

  On 1/19/22 05:13, Zach Underwood wrote:

If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at 
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/ 

It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your inverter

IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the cool/heat output 
to match the power it is getting PV

It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC connection.

 

 

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert  wrote:

  I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in the 
  future somewhere more northerly..This one is in the sunbelt of N. 
  Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery bank 
  through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight 
  solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of 110.  ( 
  the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly 
  configured for such. )I am upgrading the inverters and controller to 
  a 
  
https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt

  planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.

  I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in 
  advance before I buy myself into a corner...I'm all ears..

  thanks!!

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 

 

-- 

Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA) 

My website

advance-networking.com









 




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-20 Thread dmmoffett

Maybe it’s a matter of being self-reliant until your solar panels break vs 
being self-reliant until your fuel runs out.  Years vs months.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 10:47 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

That said, the last time I checked, propane and wood pellets cost half that of 
electricity for heating.  And natural gas was half that again.  So natural gas 
vs electric heat pump for heating would probably be the same energy cost.  

From: Chuck McCown via AF 

Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 8:40 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com <mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

3.41 BTU per watt for resistive heating.  Heat pump gives you way more heat per 
watt.  That is why most of the electric cars have gone to heat pumps for the 
heater.  The heat pump Tesla will run the heater for 36 hours and still leave 
you with enough battery to get home in many cases.  

Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell 
www.mccowntech.com <http://www.mccowntech.com> 
www.microtrench-blades.com <http://www.microtrench-blades.com> 
www.terabitnetworks.com <http://www.terabitnetworks.com> 

From: Robert 

Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 7:11 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

The $800 mini-splits I am looking at put out about 6K BTU's of heat on 400 
Watts.  The home depot $300 heaters put out 5K BTU's but require 1500 watts..   
Not going to do well in the winter overnight off grid...   And no a/c in the 
summer...

On 1/20/22 5:53 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:

$1895?  For a one room ac/heater?  Home Depot has something similar for $300.  
Is it the decal?  Hood ornament?

On 1/19/22 05:13, Zach Underwood wrote:

If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at 
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/ 

It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your inverter

IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the cool/heat output to 
match the power it is getting PV

It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC connection.

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> > wrote:

I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in the 
future somewhere more northerly..This one is in the sunbelt of N. 
Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery bank 
through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight 
solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of 110.  ( 
the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly 
configured for such. )I am upgrading the inverters and controller to 
a 
https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt

planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.

I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in 
advance before I buy myself into a corner...I'm all ears..

thanks!!

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 

Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA) 

My website <http://zachunderwood.me> 

advance-networking.com <http://advance-networking.com> 

  _  

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  _  

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-20 Thread Josh Luthman

I'd believe natural gas was 1/4 electric.  My 1200 sqft house is ~$60 in
gas and my  900 sqft shop is $50 for a 2018 heat pump. (Dec-Feb).

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 10:47 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> That said, the last time I checked, propane and wood pellets cost half
> that of electricity for heating.  And natural gas was half that again.  So
> natural gas vs electric heat pump for heating would probably be the same
> energy cost.
>
>
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 8:40 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
>
> 3.41 BTU per watt for resistive heating.  Heat pump gives you way more
> heat per watt.  That is why most of the electric cars have gone to heat
> pumps for the heater.  The heat pump Tesla will run the heater for 36 hours
> and still leave you with enough battery to get home in many cases.
>
> Chuck McCown
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503
> 435-830-4306 cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench-blades.com
> www.terabitnetworks.com
>
> *From:* Robert
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 7:11 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
>
> The $800 mini-splits I am looking at put out about 6K BTU's of heat on 400
> Watts.  The home depot $300 heaters put out 5K BTU's but require 1500
> watts..   Not going to do well in the winter overnight off grid...   And no
> a/c in the summer...
>
> On 1/20/22 5:53 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:
>
> $1895?  For a one room ac/heater?  Home Depot has something similar for
> $300.  Is it the decal?  Hood ornament?
> On 1/19/22 05:13, Zach Underwood wrote:
>
> If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at
> https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/
> It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your inverter
> IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the cool/heat output
> to match the power it is getting PV
> It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC connection.
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert  wrote:
>
>> I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in the
>> future somewhere more northerly..This one is in the sunbelt of N.
>> Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery bank
>> through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight
>> solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of 110.  (
>> the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly
>> configured for such. )I am upgrading the inverters and controller to
>> a
>>
>> https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt
>>
>> planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.
>>
>> I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in
>> advance before I buy myself into a corner...I'm all ears..
>>
>> thanks!!
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
> My website <http://zachunderwood.me>
> advance-networking.com
>
>
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-20 Thread Nate Burke

Here in Illinois, our natural gas price is getting ready to go up 2x -
3x. The NG company says that it's just a pass through cost from their
supplier, they only make money on the delivery charge.

On 1/20/2022 9:46 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
That said, the last time I checked, propane and wood pellets cost half
that of electricity for heating. And natural gas was half that
again. So natural gas vs electric heat pump for heating would
probably be the same energy cost.

*From:* Chuck McCown via AF
*Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 8:40 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
3.41 BTU per watt for resistive heating. Heat pump gives you way more
heat per watt. That is why most of the electric cars have gone to
heat pumps for the heater. The heat pump Tesla will run the heater
for 36 hours and still leave you with enough battery to get home in
many cases.

Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench-blades.com
www.terabitnetworks.com
*From:* Robert
*Sent:* Thursday, January 20, 2022 7:11 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
The $800 mini-splits I am looking at put out about 6K BTU's of heat on
400 Watts. The home depot $300 heaters put out 5K BTU's but require
1500 watts.. Not going to do well in the winter overnight off
grid... And no a/c in the summer...

On 1/20/22 5:53 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:

$1895? For a one room ac/heater? Home Depot has something similar
for $300. Is it the decal? Hood ornament?

On 1/19/22 05:13, Zach Underwood wrote:
If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/

It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your inverter
IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the cool/heat
output to match the power it is getting PV

It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC connection.
On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert wrote:

I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another
in the
future somewhere more northerly..This one is in the sunbelt
of N.
Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP
battery bank
through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight
solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of
110. (
the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly
configured for such. )I am upgrading the inverters and
controller to
a

https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt

planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.

I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in
advance before I buy myself into a corner...I'm all ears..

thanks!!

--
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website <http://zachunderwood.me>
advance-networking.com <http://advance-networking.com>

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

That said, the last time I checked, propane and wood pellets cost half that of 
electricity for heating.  And natural gas was half that again.  So natural gas 
vs electric heat pump for heating would probably be the same energy cost.  

From: Chuck McCown via AF 
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 8:40 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

3.41 BTU per watt for resistive heating.  Heat pump gives you way more heat per 
watt.  That is why most of the electric cars have gone to heat pumps for the 
heater.  The heat pump Tesla will run the heater for 36 hours and still leave 
you with enough battery to get home in many cases.  

Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell 
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench-blades.com
www.terabitnetworks.com

From: Robert 
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 7:11 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

The $800 mini-splits I am looking at put out about 6K BTU's of heat on 400 
Watts.  The home depot $300 heaters put out 5K BTU's but require 1500 watts..   
Not going to do well in the winter overnight off grid...   And no a/c in the 
summer...

On 1/20/22 5:53 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:

  $1895?  For a one room ac/heater?  Home Depot has something similar for $300. 
 Is it the decal?  Hood ornament?

  On 1/19/22 05:13, Zach Underwood wrote:

If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at 
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/ 
It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your inverter
IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the cool/heat output 
to match the power it is getting PV
It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC connection.

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert  wrote:

  I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in the 
  future somewhere more northerly..This one is in the sunbelt of N. 
  Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery bank 
  through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight 
  solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of 110.  ( 
  the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly 
  configured for such. )I am upgrading the inverters and controller to 
  a 

https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt

  planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.

  I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in 
  advance before I buy myself into a corner...I'm all ears..

  thanks!!

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 

Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA) 
My website

advance-networking.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

Not when you talk heat pump.
If the outdoors is 60 degrees F and you want 68 degree indoor, you can probably 
multiply your heating ability by a factor of 10 with a heat pump.  
Many residential heat pumps can give you 6X the heat energy they consume via 
electricity.  

All depends on the differential temperature and the design of the unit.  Unless 
the outdoor temp is down at the vaporization temperature of the refrigerant, 
you will always multiply your heating energy.  


From: Jan-GAMs 
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 7:48 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

power is power, TANSTAFL (Heinlein).  Maybe the OP is confusing his formulae?  
1 BTU/hr is not the same amount of power as 1 BTU/min. (minutes vs hours)


On 1/20/22 06:30, Josh Luthman wrote:

  Watts != btu.  You're thinking in terms of resistance heating. 

  A mini-split is FAR more efficient in a particular range.  The ones I've 
gotten in the last 4 years are incredibly efficient at ~40-80 degrees.  They're 
still decent at -8 through 40.  Not too good when colder than -8, but it'll 
still heat.

  On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 9:25 AM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

somethings off, 6k btu should consume 1758.42642 watts.  Your mini-splits 
invent a new type of btu?


On 1/20/22 06:11, Robert wrote:

  The $800 mini-splits I am looking at put out about 6K BTU's of heat on 
400 Watts.  The home depot $300 heaters put out 5K BTU's but require 1500 
watts..   Not going to do well in the winter overnight off grid...   And no a/c 
in the summer...


  On 1/20/22 5:53 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:

$1895?  For a one room ac/heater?  Home Depot has something similar for 
$300.  Is it the decal?  Hood ornament?


On 1/19/22 05:13, Zach Underwood wrote:

  If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at 
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/ 
  It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your 
inverter
  IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the cool/heat 
output to match the power it is getting PV
  It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC connection.


  On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert  wrote:

I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in 
the 
future somewhere more northerly..This one is in the sunbelt of 
N. 
Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery 
bank 
through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight 
solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of 
110.  ( 
the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly 
configured for such. )I am upgrading the inverters and 
controller to 
a 

https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt

planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.

I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in 
advance before I buy myself into a corner...I'm all ears..

thanks!!

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



  -- 

  Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA) 
  My website

  advance-networking.com


   

 


   
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


   



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

3.41 BTU per watt for resistive heating.  Heat pump gives you way more heat per 
watt.  That is why most of the electric cars have gone to heat pumps for the 
heater.  The heat pump Tesla will run the heater for 36 hours and still leave 
you with enough battery to get home in many cases.  

Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503
435-830-4306 cell 
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench-blades.com
www.terabitnetworks.com


From: Robert 
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 7:11 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

The $800 mini-splits I am looking at put out about 6K BTU's of heat on 400 
Watts.  The home depot $300 heaters put out 5K BTU's but require 1500 watts..   
Not going to do well in the winter overnight off grid...   And no a/c in the 
summer...


On 1/20/22 5:53 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:

  $1895?  For a one room ac/heater?  Home Depot has something similar for $300. 
 Is it the decal?  Hood ornament?


  On 1/19/22 05:13, Zach Underwood wrote:

If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at 
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/ 
It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your inverter
IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the cool/heat output 
to match the power it is getting PV
It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC connection.


On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert  wrote:

  I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in the 
  future somewhere more northerly..This one is in the sunbelt of N. 
  Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery bank 
  through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight 
  solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of 110.  ( 
  the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly 
  configured for such. )I am upgrading the inverters and controller to 
  a 
  
https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt

  planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.

  I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in 
  advance before I buy myself into a corner...I'm all ears..

  thanks!!

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 

Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA) 
My website

advance-networking.com


 

   





-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

Mini splits are not manufacturing heat out of the electrical input ( ie 
resistance heating ) they are moving thermal mass from one side to the 
other.  So they are making the air outside even colder and the air 
inside warmer, why the efficiency goes down as it gets colder.  You have 
to wrap your head around that before you accept that they are really 
good.   If you don't believe, what this video with an actual current 
meter and temperature gauge.   NOW understand, he's not heating the 
garage from 0 degrees, the garage started warmer.  But the meters are 
not jacked.   He did keep his garage ( I am guessing about 600 square 
feet ) at 64 degrees overnight for 6KW hours  Which with my current 
30Kw battery pack is probably 4 days...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgCOmzCWGrU_channel=DavidPoz

On 1/20/22 6:48 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:


power is power, TANSTAFL (Heinlein).  Maybe the OP is confusing his 
formulae?  1 BTU/hr is not the same amount of power as 1 BTU/min. 
(minutes vs hours)


On 1/20/22 06:30, Josh Luthman wrote:

Watts != btu.  You're thinking in terms of resistance heating.

A mini-split is FAR more efficient in a particular range.  The ones 
I've gotten in the last 4 years are incredibly efficient at ~40-80 
degrees.  They're still decent at -8 through 40.  Not too good when 
colder than -8, but it'll still heat.


On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 9:25 AM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

somethings off, 6k btu should consume 1758.42642 watts.  Your
mini-splits invent a new type of btu?

On 1/20/22 06:11, Robert wrote:

The $800 mini-splits I am looking at put out about 6K BTU's of
heat on 400 Watts.  The home depot $300 heaters put out 5K BTU's
but require 1500 watts..   Not going to do well in the winter
overnight off grid...   And no a/c in the summer...

On 1/20/22 5:53 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:


$1895?  For a one room ac/heater?  Home Depot has something
similar for $300.  Is it the decal?  Hood ornament?

On 1/19/22 05:13, Zach Underwood wrote:

If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/
It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on
your inverter
IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the
cool/heat output to match the power it is getting PV
It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC
connection.


On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert
 wrote:

I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do
another in the
future somewhere more northerly..    This one is in the
sunbelt of N.
Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP
battery bank
through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple
midnight
solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two
sides of 110.  (
the 220 will not run the well controller even though
supposedly
configured for such. )    I am upgrading the inverters and
controller to
a

https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt

planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.

I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn
from in
advance before I buy myself into a corner... I'm all ears..

thanks!!

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)

My website 
advance-networking.com 






-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home


Correction...  9K BTU on max 7 amps at startup...

On 1/20/22 6:11 AM, Robert wrote:
The $800 mini-splits I am looking at put out about 6K BTU's of heat on 
400 Watts.  The home depot $300 heaters put out 5K BTU's but require 
1500 watts..   Not going to do well in the winter overnight off 
grid...   And no a/c in the summer...


On 1/20/22 5:53 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:


$1895?  For a one room ac/heater?  Home Depot has something similar 
for $300.  Is it the decal?  Hood ornament?


On 1/19/22 05:13, Zach Underwood wrote:
If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at 
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/

It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your inverter
IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the cool/heat 
output to match the power it is getting PV

It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC connection.


On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert  wrote:

I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another
in the
future somewhere more northerly..    This one is in the sunbelt
of N.
Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP
battery bank
through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight
solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of
110.  (
the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly
configured for such. )    I am upgrading the inverters and
controller to
a

https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt

planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.

I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in
advance before I buy myself into a corner...    I'm all ears..

thanks!!

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website 
advance-networking.com 






-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home


This is the one I am planning on using...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgCOmzCWGrU_channel=DavidPoz

On 1/19/22 5:13 AM, Zach Underwood wrote:
If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at 
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/

It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your inverter
IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the cool/heat 
output to match the power it is getting PV

It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC connection.


On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert  wrote:

I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in the
future somewhere more northerly..    This one is in the sunbelt of N.
Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery
bank
through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight
solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of
110.  (
the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly
configured for such. )    I am upgrading the inverters and
controller to
a

https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt

planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.

I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in
advance before I buy myself into a corner...    I'm all ears..

thanks!!

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website 
advance-networking.com 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

power is power, TANSTAFL (Heinlein).  Maybe the OP is confusing his 
formulae?  1 BTU/hr is not the same amount of power as 1 BTU/min. 
(minutes vs hours)


On 1/20/22 06:30, Josh Luthman wrote:

Watts != btu.  You're thinking in terms of resistance heating.

A mini-split is FAR more efficient in a particular range. The ones 
I've gotten in the last 4 years are incredibly efficient at ~40-80 
degrees.  They're still decent at -8 through 40.  Not too good when 
colder than -8, but it'll still heat.


On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 9:25 AM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

somethings off, 6k btu should consume 1758.42642 watts. Your
mini-splits invent a new type of btu?

On 1/20/22 06:11, Robert wrote:

The $800 mini-splits I am looking at put out about 6K BTU's of
heat on 400 Watts.  The home depot $300 heaters put out 5K BTU's
but require 1500 watts..   Not going to do well in the winter
overnight off grid...   And no a/c in the summer...

On 1/20/22 5:53 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:


$1895?  For a one room ac/heater?  Home Depot has something
similar for $300.  Is it the decal?  Hood ornament?

On 1/19/22 05:13, Zach Underwood wrote:

If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/
It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your
inverter
IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the
cool/heat output to match the power it is getting PV
It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC
connection.


On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert 
wrote:

I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do
another in the
future somewhere more northerly..    This one is in the
sunbelt of N.
Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP
battery bank
through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple
midnight
solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two
sides of 110.  (
the 220 will not run the well controller even though
supposedly
configured for such. )    I am upgrading the inverters and
controller to
a

https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt

planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.

I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn
from in
advance before I buy myself into a corner... I'm all ears..

thanks!!

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)

My website 
advance-networking.com 






-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-20 Thread Josh Luthman

Watts != btu.  You're thinking in terms of resistance heating.

A mini-split is FAR more efficient in a particular range.  The ones I've
gotten in the last 4 years are incredibly efficient at ~40-80 degrees.
They're still decent at -8 through 40.  Not too good when colder than -8,
but it'll still heat.

On Thu, Jan 20, 2022 at 9:25 AM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> somethings off, 6k btu should consume 1758.42642 watts.  Your mini-splits
> invent a new type of btu?
> On 1/20/22 06:11, Robert wrote:
>
> The $800 mini-splits I am looking at put out about 6K BTU's of heat on 400
> Watts.  The home depot $300 heaters put out 5K BTU's but require 1500
> watts..   Not going to do well in the winter overnight off grid...   And no
> a/c in the summer...
>
> On 1/20/22 5:53 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:
>
> $1895?  For a one room ac/heater?  Home Depot has something similar for
> $300.  Is it the decal?  Hood ornament?
> On 1/19/22 05:13, Zach Underwood wrote:
>
> If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at
> https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/
> It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your inverter
> IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the cool/heat output
> to match the power it is getting PV
> It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC connection.
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert  wrote:
>
>> I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in the
>> future somewhere more northerly..This one is in the sunbelt of N.
>> Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery bank
>> through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight
>> solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of 110.  (
>> the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly
>> configured for such. )I am upgrading the inverters and controller to
>> a
>>
>> https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt
>>
>> planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.
>>
>> I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in
>> advance before I buy myself into a corner...I'm all ears..
>>
>> thanks!!
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
> My website 
> advance-networking.com
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

somethings off, 6k btu should consume 1758.42642 watts.  Your 
mini-splits invent a new type of btu?


On 1/20/22 06:11, Robert wrote:
The $800 mini-splits I am looking at put out about 6K BTU's of heat on 
400 Watts.  The home depot $300 heaters put out 5K BTU's but require 
1500 watts..   Not going to do well in the winter overnight off 
grid...   And no a/c in the summer...


On 1/20/22 5:53 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:


$1895?  For a one room ac/heater?  Home Depot has something similar 
for $300.  Is it the decal?  Hood ornament?


On 1/19/22 05:13, Zach Underwood wrote:
If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at 
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/

It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your inverter
IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the cool/heat 
output to match the power it is getting PV

It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC connection.


On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert  wrote:

I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another
in the
future somewhere more northerly..    This one is in the sunbelt
of N.
Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP
battery bank
through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight
solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of
110.  (
the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly
configured for such. )    I am upgrading the inverters and
controller to
a

https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt

planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.

I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in
advance before I buy myself into a corner...    I'm all ears..

thanks!!

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website 
advance-networking.com 





-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

The $800 mini-splits I am looking at put out about 6K BTU's of heat on 
400 Watts.  The home depot $300 heaters put out 5K BTU's but require 
1500 watts..   Not going to do well in the winter overnight off 
grid...   And no a/c in the summer...


On 1/20/22 5:53 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote:


$1895?  For a one room ac/heater?  Home Depot has something similar 
for $300.  Is it the decal?  Hood ornament?


On 1/19/22 05:13, Zach Underwood wrote:
If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at 
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/

It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your inverter
IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the cool/heat 
output to match the power it is getting PV

It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC connection.


On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert  wrote:

I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in
the
future somewhere more northerly..    This one is in the sunbelt
of N.
Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP
battery bank
through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight
solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of
110.  (
the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly
configured for such. )    I am upgrading the inverters and
controller to
a

https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt

planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.

I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in
advance before I buy myself into a corner...    I'm all ears..

thanks!!

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website 
advance-networking.com 



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

$1895?  For a one room ac/heater?  Home Depot has something similar for 
$300.  Is it the decal?  Hood ornament?


On 1/19/22 05:13, Zach Underwood wrote:
If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at 
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/

It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your inverter
IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the cool/heat 
output to match the power it is getting PV

It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC connection.


On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert  wrote:

I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in the
future somewhere more northerly..    This one is in the sunbelt of N.
Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery
bank
through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight
solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of
110.  (
the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly
configured for such. )    I am upgrading the inverters and
controller to
a

https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt

planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.

I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in
advance before I buy myself into a corner...    I'm all ears..

thanks!!

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website 
advance-networking.com 
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Robert Andrews

oh, I forgot shipping on that, which will apply to any you don't pick
up, but Sig Solar I think is a little higher than a lot of others, which
probably brings it close to .50/watt delivered... But still probably
$6K delivered for 12Kwatts? Plus probably another $3K for the
controller/inverters and probably another $1-2K for the racking... And
the govt will give you ~20-30% tax credits.. So if you build it
yourself, you can be under 10K before credits...

On 1/19/22 1:00 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/375w-72cell-mono-solar-panel-by-rec-l-full-pallet-of-33

$159/panel for 12K watts..

On 1/19/22 9:59 AM, Nate Burke wrote:

What is the going rate for solar panels these days?

On 1/19/2022 11:51 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Propane fridges, water heater, clothes dryers and space heaters are a
pretty good solution for off grid. Obviously if you have enough
solar you don’t need any of them but for the money, I think that is
the best use of the dollar.

*From:* Steven Kenney via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:43 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Steven Kenney
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
Consider a fridge that runs on either electric or propane like RV's.
They work great.
On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 5:10 AM Chuck McCown via AF
wrote:

Say a similar on grid home used 500 kWh per month. That is
equivalent to a steady state load of almost 700 watts. Round up
to 1kW. So 10 kW panel minimum. Panels are cheap these days. I
would do 20kW if you can. Batts are not so cheap. That is where
you can save some big money with a modest generator. Propane is
nice.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF
wrote:
>

-- AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY This communication, including any
attachments, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) to this
email and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or
acting on behalf of an intended recipient, any review, disclosure,
conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of
any part of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you receive
this communication in error or without authorization, please notify
the originator immediately and remove it from your system.

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Robert Andrews

thats .42 / watt

On 1/19/22 1:00 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/375w-72cell-mono-solar-panel-by-rec-l-full-pallet-of-33 

$159/panel   for 12K watts..

On 1/19/22 9:59 AM, Nate Burke wrote:

What is the going rate for solar panels these days?

On 1/19/2022 11:51 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Propane fridges, water heater, clothes dryers and space heaters are a 
pretty good solution for off grid.  Obviously if you have enough 
solar you don’t need any of them but for the money, I think that is 
the best use of the dollar.

*From:* Steven Kenney via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:43 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Steven Kenney
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
Consider a fridge that runs on either electric or propane like RV's. 
They work great.
On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 5:10 AM Chuck McCown via AF  
wrote:

    Say a similar on grid home used 500 kWh per month. That is
    equivalent to a steady state load of almost 700 watts.  Round up
    to 1kW.  So 10 kW panel minimum.  Panels are cheap these days.  I
    would do 20kW if you can.  Batts are not so cheap.  That is where
    you can save some big money with a modest generator. Propane is 
nice.

    Sent from my iPhone

    > On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF
     wrote:
    >

    --     AF mailing list
    AF@af.afmug.com
    http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY This communication, including any 
attachments, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) to this 
email and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or 
acting on behalf of an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, 
conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of 
any part of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you receive 
this communication in error or without authorization, please notify 
the originator immediately and remove it from your system.

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Robert Andrews

https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/375w-72cell-mono-solar-panel-by-rec-l-full-pallet-of-33

$159/panel for 12K watts..

On 1/19/22 9:59 AM, Nate Burke wrote:

What is the going rate for solar panels these days?

On 1/19/2022 11:51 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Propane fridges, water heater, clothes dryers and space heaters are a
pretty good solution for off grid. Obviously if you have enough solar
you don’t need any of them but for the money, I think that is the best
use of the dollar.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF
wrote:
>

--
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

50 cents/watt or less.  

From: Nate Burke 
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 11:00 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

What is the going rate for solar panels these days?  

On 1/19/2022 11:51 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

  Propane fridges, water heater, clothes dryers and space heaters are a pretty 
good solution for off grid.  Obviously if you have enough solar you don’t need 
any of them but for the money, I think that is the best use of the dollar.  

  From: Steven Kenney via AF 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:43 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Cc: Steven Kenney 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

  Consider a fridge that runs on either electric or propane like RV's.  They 
work great.  

  On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 5:10 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

Say a similar on grid home used 500 kWh per month. That is equivalent to a 
steady state load of almost 700 watts.  Round up to 1kW.  So 10 kW panel 
minimum.  Panels are cheap these days.  I would do 20kW if you can.  Batts are 
not so cheap.  That is where you can save some big money with a modest 
generator.  Propane is nice.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
> 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY This communication, including any attachments, is 
intended only for the use of the addressee(s) to this email and is 
confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or acting on behalf of an 
intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, 
dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is 
strictly prohibited. If you receive this communication in error or without 
authorization, please notify the originator immediately and remove it from your 
system.

--
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Bill Prince

It ranges widely depending on who you're talking to, but if you
  know who to go to you can generally get them for between 40 and 50
  cents per watt.

bp

On 1/19/2022 9:59 AM, Nate Burke wrote:

  What is the going rate for solar panels these days?  

  On 1/19/2022 11:51 AM, Chuck McCown
via AF wrote:

Propane fridges, water heater, clothes dryers and space
  heaters are a pretty good solution for off grid. 
  Obviously if you have enough solar you don’t need any of
  them but for the money, I think that is the best use of
  the dollar.  

  From: Steven
  Kenney via AF 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:43 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
  Group 
  Cc: Steven Kenney 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic.
Off grid home

Consider a fridge
  that runs on either electric or propane like RV's. 
  They work great.  

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022
  at 5:10 AM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com>
  wrote:

Say a similar on grid home used 500
  kWh per month. That is equivalent to a steady state
  load of almost 700 watts.  Round up to 1kW.  So 10 kW
  panel minimum.  Panels are cheap these days.  I would
  do 20kW if you can.  Batts are not so cheap.  That is
  where you can save some big money with a modest
  generator.  Propane is nice.

  Sent from my iPhone

  > On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF
  <af@af.afmug.com>
  wrote:
  > 

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY This
communication, including any attachments, is intended
only for the use of the addressee(s) to this email and
is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or
acting on behalf of an intended recipient, any review,
disclosure, conversion to hard copy, dissemination,
reproduction or other use of any part of this
communication is strictly prohibited. If you receive
this communication in error or without authorization,
please notify the originator immediately and remove it
from your system.

   -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Nate Burke

What is the going rate for solar panels these days?

On 1/19/2022 11:51 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Propane fridges, water heater, clothes dryers and space heaters are a 
pretty good solution for off grid.  Obviously if you have enough solar 
you don’t need any of them but for the money, I think that is the best 
use of the dollar.

*From:* Steven Kenney via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:43 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Steven Kenney
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
Consider a fridge that runs on either electric or propane like RV's.  
They work great.
On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 5:10 AM Chuck McCown via AF  
wrote:

Say a similar on grid home used 500 kWh per month. That is
equivalent to a steady state load of almost 700 watts.  Round up
to 1kW.  So 10 kW panel minimum.  Panels are cheap these days.  I
would do 20kW if you can.  Batts are not so cheap.  That is where
you can save some big money with a modest generator. Propane is nice.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:
>

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY This communication, including any 
attachments, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) to this 
email and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or 
acting on behalf of an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, 
conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of 
any part of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you receive 
this communication in error or without authorization, please notify 
the originator immediately and remove it from your system.

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Nate Burke

What is the going rate for solar panels these days?

On 1/19/2022 11:51 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Propane fridges, water heater, clothes dryers and space heaters are a 
pretty good solution for off grid.  Obviously if you have enough solar 
you don’t need any of them but for the money, I think that is the best 
use of the dollar.

*From:* Steven Kenney via AF
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:43 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Cc:* Steven Kenney
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
Consider a fridge that runs on either electric or propane like RV's.  
They work great.
On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 5:10 AM Chuck McCown via AF  
wrote:

Say a similar on grid home used 500 kWh per month. That is
equivalent to a steady state load of almost 700 watts.  Round up
to 1kW.  So 10 kW panel minimum.  Panels are cheap these days.  I
would do 20kW if you can.  Batts are not so cheap.  That is where
you can save some big money with a modest generator. Propane is nice.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF
 wrote:
>

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY This communication, including any 
attachments, is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) to this 
email and is confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or 
acting on behalf of an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, 
conversion to hard copy, dissemination, reproduction or other use of 
any part of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you receive 
this communication in error or without authorization, please notify 
the originator immediately and remove it from your system.

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

Propane fridges, water heater, clothes dryers and space heaters are a pretty 
good solution for off grid.  Obviously if you have enough solar you don’t need 
any of them but for the money, I think that is the best use of the dollar.  

From: Steven Kenney via AF 
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 10:43 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Steven Kenney 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

Consider a fridge that runs on either electric or propane like RV's.  They work 
great.  

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 5:10 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

  Say a similar on grid home used 500 kWh per month. That is equivalent to a 
steady state load of almost 700 watts.  Round up to 1kW.  So 10 kW panel 
minimum.  Panels are cheap these days.  I would do 20kW if you can.  Batts are 
not so cheap.  That is where you can save some big money with a modest 
generator.  Propane is nice.

  Sent from my iPhone

  > On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
  > 

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY This communication, including any attachments, is 
intended only for the use of the addressee(s) to this email and is 
confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or acting on behalf of an 
intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, 
dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication is 
strictly prohibited. If you receive this communication in error or without 
authorization, please notify the originator immediately and remove it from your 
system.

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Steven Kenney via AF

Consider a fridge that runs on either electric or propane like RV's.  They
work great.

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 5:10 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Say a similar on grid home used 500 kWh per month. That is equivalent to a
> steady state load of almost 700 watts.  Round up to 1kW.  So 10 kW panel
> minimum.  Panels are cheap these days.  I would do 20kW if you can.  Batts
> are not so cheap.  That is where you can save some big money with a modest
> generator.  Propane is nice.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
> >
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>

-- 


NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY This communication, including any attachments, 
is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) to this email and is 
confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or acting on behalf of 
an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, 
dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication 
is strictly prohibited. If you receive this communication in error or 
without authorization, please notify the originator immediately and remove 
it from your system.
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Steven Kenney via AF

Very cool inverter.

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert  wrote:

> I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in the
> future somewhere more northerly..This one is in the sunbelt of N.
> Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery bank
> through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight
> solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of 110.  (
> the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly
> configured for such. )I am upgrading the inverters and controller to
> a
>
> https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt
>
> planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.
>
> I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in
> advance before I buy myself into a corner...I'm all ears..
>
> thanks!!
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>

-- 


NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY This communication, including any attachments, 
is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) to this email and is 
confidential. If you are not an intended recipient or acting on behalf of 
an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy, 
dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication 
is strictly prohibited. If you receive this communication in error or 
without authorization, please notify the originator immediately and remove 
it from your system.
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Robert

They are 2x what I can get a 32 seer unit that heats to -22 degrees...  
(SEER is a handwave number but -22 isn't)...  heating is actually more 
important than cooling here...  have to have the batteries and inverter 
anyways..   but I will consider in the future specially for the garage...


On 1/19/22 7:57 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Nice.  I used something similar in a telco central office years ago 
that was 100% solar.  Worked great.

*From:* Zach Underwood
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 6:13 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home
If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at 
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/

It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your inverter
IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the cool/heat 
output to match the power it is getting PV

It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC connection.
On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert  wrote:

I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in the
future somewhere more northerly..    This one is in the sunbelt of N.
Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery
bank
through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight
solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of
110.  (
the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly
configured for such. )    I am upgrading the inverters and
controller to
a

https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt

planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.

I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in
advance before I buy myself into a corner...    I'm all ears..

thanks!!

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website <http://zachunderwood.me>
advance-networking.com <http://advance-networking.com>


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Robert

Currently have a 5kw propane genny hooked up but it's only 120v, the 8kw 
propane 220v is sitting there waiting for an exhaust pipe adapter to get 
finished so we can hook it to the exhaust pipe that exits the genny 
room.   We had a 12kw diesel outside genny but fried the control panel 
out of the blue and it is some german generator that we can't find a 
replacement panel for.   We are going to try and find parts to fix it 
but it was faster replacing it for now.   The house is unoccupied 
currently and the majority of the current load is for transmitters and 
cameras at about 200watts...   Expect that to double with the new 
controller/inverter and double again when occupied..


On 1/19/22 2:09 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:

Say a similar on grid home used 500 kWh per month. That is equivalent to a 
steady state load of almost 700 watts.  Round up to 1kW.  So 10 kW panel 
minimum.  Panels are cheap these days.  I would do 20kW if you can.  Batts are 
not so cheap.  That is where you can save some big money with a modest 
generator.  Propane is nice.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:






--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

Nice.  I used something similar in a telco central office years ago that was 
100% solar.  Worked great.  

From: Zach Underwood 
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 6:13 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at 
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/ 
It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your inverter
IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the cool/heat output to 
match the power it is getting PV
It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC connection.

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert  wrote:

  I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in the 
  future somewhere more northerly..This one is in the sunbelt of N. 
  Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery bank 
  through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight 
  solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of 110.  ( 
  the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly 
  configured for such. )I am upgrading the inverters and controller to 
  a 

https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt

  planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.

  I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in 
  advance before I buy myself into a corner...I'm all ears..

  thanks!!

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 

Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA) 
My website

advance-networking.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

2022-01-19 Thread Zach Underwood

If you have not already gotten the mini splits take a look at
https://www.hotspotenergy.com/solar-air-conditioner/
It has direct PV inputs when sunny it would put no load on your inverter
IT can be put in solar only mode where it will scale the cool/heat output
to match the power it is getting PV
It can run overnight if you wish by giving in 240volt AC connection.


On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 7:08 PM Robert  wrote:

> I am working on my first off grid home, and hope to do another in the
> future somewhere more northerly..This one is in the sunbelt of N.
> Nevada and currently I have 4K of solar feeding a 30KW LFP battery bank
> through currently a Victron charge controller and a couple midnight
> solar inverters to generate a flawed 220 as well as two sides of 110.  (
> the 220 will not run the well controller even though supposedly
> configured for such. )I am upgrading the inverters and controller to
> a
>
> https://www.signaturesolar.com/products/8kw-48v-240vac-split-phase-120a-250vdc-off-grid-inverter-by-growatt
>
> planning on doing a couple 9K mini-splits for heating/cooling.
>
> I wonder if this group has some gotchas that I might learn from in
> advance before I buy myself into a corner...I'm all ears..
>
> thanks!!
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
My website 
advance-networking.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home

Say a similar on grid home used 500 kWh per month. That is equivalent to a 
steady state load of almost 700 watts.  Round up to 1kW.  So 10 kW panel 
minimum.  Panels are cheap these days.  I would do 20kW if you can.  Batts are 
not so cheap.  That is where you can save some big money with a modest 
generator.  Propane is nice.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
> 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Major off topic. Off grid home