Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Josh Reynolds]

I'd love to see their overall take rates. I have heard numbers of 75-85% in
more affluent areas. They cherry picked neighborhoods for sure though.

On Oct 25, 2016 10:15 PM, "Rory Conaway"  wrote:

> Big surprise there.  They built it and no one came.
>
>
>
> Rory
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Tushar Patel
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 7:14 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more
>
>
>
> Their contractor are still hiring installer in Austin.
>
>
>
> Need to probably understand why those cities not others?
>
> Tushar
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 25, 2016, at 9:06 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
>
> New ones. They're still deploying existing networks. They just opened up a
> few new areas in Kansas City recently.
>
>
>
> On Oct 25, 2016 9:03 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
> wrote:
>
> Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios
>
>
>
> On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini"  wrote:
>
> https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-
> cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657_campaign=
> socialflow_gizmodo_facebook_source=gizmodo_facebook&
> utm_medium=socialflow
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

[Eric Kuhnke]

I think it's also designed that way because a big part of its target market
are telecoms with oldschool traditional dual polarity dishes fed from
waveguides (like a 4' to8' size 6 or 11 GHz Andrew), where they have two
separate waveguide ports on the rear of the dish.

In a scenario upgrading an old PTP microwave system to a dual polarity 820C
link the 820C would be mounted somewhere a few feet away from the rear of
the dish and a few short distance flex/twist waveguides connecting it.

It is a lot more bothersome for all-new builds than a single radio unit
that has one cylindrical dual polarity port on the rear and can mount
directly on the rear of a dish... Exalt ExtremeAir, etc.


On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 8:23 PM, Steve Utick  wrote:

> The 820C does have dual radios in it.  But, it has two separate waveguide
> interfaces on the radio.  You can either mount the radio to a "Splitter"
> that combines the two carriers using the same polarization, or an OMT which
> combines the two carriers on alternate polarizations.  Then you have a
> circular adapter on the antenna so you can use both polarities.   You can
> see examples in the PTP820c installation guide at:
> http://www.doubleradius.com/c.283276/site/stores/cambium/
> Cambium-PTP-820C-Installation%20Guide.pdf
>
> In particular, page 2-7 shows all the parts.
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> If it’s an 820C, isn’t that dual core, meaning 2 radios in one unit, no
>> separate combiner needed?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:27 AM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer
>>
>>
>>
>> Are the two radios mounted through an OMT or such? Did they happen to
>> switch which one is V and which one is H?
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/24/2016 8:06 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
>>
>> Well, worst case scenario someone along the way f’ed up the hardware and
>> I would need the same installer(s) to know enough to tell me I need a new
>> part or whatever.
>>
>>
>>
>> They did take apart the mount and maybe even the antenna from the radio
>> in order to shift it to left or right hand mount.
>>
>> So there is a possibility something happened when they did that.
>>
>>
>>
>> This link WAS working from the same mountain tower to a slightly
>> different location about the same distance just on one polarity for over a
>> year.
>>
>> Because of licensing, I had to have the radio pair removed, and moved to
>> opposite locations, with some storage in between time etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m going to be super pissed if something happened physically to the
>> radios or dishes.
>>
>> But at the moment everyone working on it so far is too stupid (including
>> myself) to know the difference between config/aim and hardware issue.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’ll still pay to have someone competent tell me that everything is all
>> good except that I need a part fixed, IF they can discern that with
>> confidence.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 9:00 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer
>>
>>
>>
>> Misalignment will almost always affect both directions.  Yes, on a
>> licensed link the 2 directions are different frequencies, but not that
>> different.
>>
>>
>>
>> What you describe sounds kind of like a bad radio, or a configuration
>> problem.  Like xmt power set wrong on one end, or a xmt frequency out of
>> range of the diplexer.  I’m not familiar with Ceragon ordering, but I
>> assume they have different diplexers for different sub bands.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Sterling Jacobson
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 9:45 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer
>>
>>
>>
>> That’s probably exactly what happened.
>>
>>
>>
>> They spent hours on it and were still way off on dB on one side only.
>>
>> That’s why I assume the other side is angled or rotated too far (dual
>> polarity X-Pic).
>>
>>
>>
>> One guy didn’t even use the volt meter, just had someone read dB from the
>> web page.
>>
>>
>>
>> They didn’t even ask for angles, degrees, nothing.
>>
>> Just all by supposed line of sight, no scopes, and not even binoculars I
>> think.
>>
>>
>>
>> I wasn’t too happy about the whole situation, so I don’t want a repeat of
>> that.
>>
>>
>>
>> It’s less than 10 miles across Utah Lake, one end on a leg on a tower on
>> top of a mountain, the other on a smaller tower attached to concrete wall
>> near the freeway.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 8:38 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon 

Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

[Steve Utick]

The 820C does have dual radios in it.  But, it has two separate waveguide
interfaces on the radio.  You can either mount the radio to a "Splitter"
that combines the two carriers using the same polarization, or an OMT which
combines the two carriers on alternate polarizations.  Then you have a
circular adapter on the antenna so you can use both polarities.   You can
see examples in the PTP820c installation guide at:
http://www.doubleradius.com/c.283276/site/stores/cambium/Cambium-PTP-820C-Installation%20Guide.pdf

In particular, page 2-7 shows all the parts.


On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> If it’s an 820C, isn’t that dual core, meaning 2 radios in one unit, no
> separate combiner needed?
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:27 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer
>
>
>
> Are the two radios mounted through an OMT or such? Did they happen to
> switch which one is V and which one is H?
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 10/24/2016 8:06 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
>
> Well, worst case scenario someone along the way f’ed up the hardware and I
> would need the same installer(s) to know enough to tell me I need a new
> part or whatever.
>
>
>
> They did take apart the mount and maybe even the antenna from the radio in
> order to shift it to left or right hand mount.
>
> So there is a possibility something happened when they did that.
>
>
>
> This link WAS working from the same mountain tower to a slightly different
> location about the same distance just on one polarity for over a year.
>
> Because of licensing, I had to have the radio pair removed, and moved to
> opposite locations, with some storage in between time etc.
>
>
>
> I’m going to be super pissed if something happened physically to the
> radios or dishes.
>
> But at the moment everyone working on it so far is too stupid (including
> myself) to know the difference between config/aim and hardware issue.
>
>
>
> I’ll still pay to have someone competent tell me that everything is all
> good except that I need a part fixed, IF they can discern that with
> confidence.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 9:00 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer
>
>
>
> Misalignment will almost always affect both directions.  Yes, on a
> licensed link the 2 directions are different frequencies, but not that
> different.
>
>
>
> What you describe sounds kind of like a bad radio, or a configuration
> problem.  Like xmt power set wrong on one end, or a xmt frequency out of
> range of the diplexer.  I’m not familiar with Ceragon ordering, but I
> assume they have different diplexers for different sub bands.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Sterling Jacobson
> *Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 9:45 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer
>
>
>
> That’s probably exactly what happened.
>
>
>
> They spent hours on it and were still way off on dB on one side only.
>
> That’s why I assume the other side is angled or rotated too far (dual
> polarity X-Pic).
>
>
>
> One guy didn’t even use the volt meter, just had someone read dB from the
> web page.
>
>
>
> They didn’t even ask for angles, degrees, nothing.
>
> Just all by supposed line of sight, no scopes, and not even binoculars I
> think.
>
>
>
> I wasn’t too happy about the whole situation, so I don’t want a repeat of
> that.
>
>
>
> It’s less than 10 miles across Utah Lake, one end on a leg on a tower on
> top of a mountain, the other on a smaller tower attached to concrete wall
> near the freeway.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 8:38 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer
>
>
>
> Are these big dishes?  Did you not get a well defined peak during
> alignment?  Is the signal more than a couple dB less than predicted, like
> 20-30 dB low?  You’re on a sidelobe.  I’ve had experienced tower guys run
> into this.  They tend to be stubborn and believe they can align a dish with
> a 1 degree beamwidth by eye, and then they spend half an hour trying to
> tweak the alignment to get an extra 1 dB when they’re 20 dB off.  Once the
> signal starts getting worse, they go back the other way instead of
> continuing.  Convince them to do a wide sweep, and they find the main
> lobe.  You have to go through the valley to find the mountain.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
> *Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 9:14 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer
>
>
>
> The angle of the leg shouldn't 

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Jesse DuPont]

  
  
I don't know what all vendors use for their defaults, but one of the
simplest things you can do to help stabilize RSTP is to be
intentional about which device is the root bridge (i.e. closest
switch/bridge to traffic egress/ingress or core or what ever you
define as the "root"). Make sure that device has the lowest priority
so that all other bridges are working to have the best path to that
device. if you want traffic in a bridged network to flow a specific
way, you can influence that with RSTP path cost. None of this
replaces routing (ducks), but it's better than leaving them all at
default priority and letting them elect the root.


  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Jesse DuPont

  Network
  Architect
  email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
  Celerity Networks LLC
  Celerity
  Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
  Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
  

  

On 10/25/16 9:08 PM, That One Guy
  /sarcasm wrote:


  STP is dynamic, when we were solely a Milan
switched network it was off by default, when we moved to HP it
was off by default, now its on by default for everything even
HP, I assume if I read release notes on new models I would have
known that.
I prefer dynamic things be off and we turn them on
loop mitigation i guess i can see being worthwhile to have
  on by default, but generally when you create a loop its by
  mistake, and if you dont know its on, it creates a dynamic
  troubleshooting environment
I like knowing its generally going to be on, the mikrotik
  thing was unexpected, global off would be nice
when i was just a tech they implemented rstp on the network
  for redundant crummy links and dicked with the timers the
  links would flap and kick off a random root run around the
  network for hours, you cant get greedy with stp


  
  
On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 9:23 PM, Faisal
  Imtiaz 
  wrote:
  

  
very simple..


a) it is on by default in CISCO Equipment
b) it catches people by surprise, cause it does not
  output to logs as to what is going on.
c) one can only see the status of a blocked port if
  one issues the stp command.
but the biggest one is...


d)  Cisco switches will react to STP messages being
  broadcast from a totally different section of a
  connected network... !


so, simply by the virtue of 'Cisco of Right' and
  they have the highest quantity of switches deployed in
  the field... and this is one of the biggest gotchas,
  when the folks experience it. they  (cisco)
  automatically gets  the brunt of the black eye !


No one starts a story with .. " Let me tell you how
  I made a mistake" but the story always starts with
  .." Ahhh what a POS, let me tell you what I had to
  endure due to this  POS !  ".

  
  
  :)
  
  
  
  
  Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518
  x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or
Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
  
  
  

  From:
"Ken Hohhof" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 6:18:21 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp
  


  

  Why
  do people act like STP is some evil
  proprietary Cisco thing?  If you don’t want
  it, turn if off, but don’t make it sound like
  Cisco pulled it out of their ass, it’s a
  perfectly standard Layer 2 protocol.
  

   
  CDP
 

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Rory Conaway]

Big surprise there.  They built it and no one came.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Tushar Patel
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 7:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

Their contractor are still hiring installer in Austin.

Need to probably understand why those cities not others?

Tushar


On Oct 25, 2016, at 9:06 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:

New ones. They're still deploying existing networks. They just opened up a few 
new areas in Kansas City recently.

On Oct 25, 2016 9:03 PM, "Jaime Solorza" 
> wrote:

Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios

On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini" 
> wrote:
https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook_source=gizmodo_facebook_medium=socialflow

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

STP is dynamic, when we were solely a Milan switched network it was off by
default, when we moved to HP it was off by default, now its on by default
for everything even HP, I assume if I read release notes on new models I
would have known that.
I prefer dynamic things be off and we turn them on
loop mitigation i guess i can see being worthwhile to have on by default,
but generally when you create a loop its by mistake, and if you dont know
its on, it creates a dynamic troubleshooting environment
I like knowing its generally going to be on, the mikrotik thing was
unexpected, global off would be nice
when i was just a tech they implemented rstp on the network for redundant
crummy links and dicked with the timers the links would flap and kick off a
random root run around the network for hours, you cant get greedy with stp


On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 9:23 PM, Faisal Imtiaz 
wrote:

> very simple..
>
> a) it is on by default in CISCO Equipment
> b) it catches people by surprise, cause it does not output to logs as to
> what is going on.
> c) one can only see the status of a blocked port if one issues the stp
> command.
> but the biggest one is...
>
> d)  Cisco switches will react to STP messages being broadcast from a
> totally different section of a connected network... !
>
> so, simply by the virtue of 'Cisco of Right' and they have the highest
> quantity of switches deployed in the field... and this is one of the
> biggest gotchas, when the folks experience it. they  (cisco)
> automatically gets  the brunt of the black eye !
>
> No one starts a story with .. " Let me tell you how I made a mistake"
> but the story always starts with .." Ahhh what a POS, let me tell you what
> I had to endure due to this  POS !  ".
>
> :)
>
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 25, 2016 6:18:21 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] stp
>
> Why do people act like STP is some evil proprietary Cisco thing?  If you
> don’t want it, turn if off, but don’t make it sound like Cisco pulled it
> out of their ass, it’s a perfectly standard Layer 2 protocol.
>
>
>
> CDP you can yell at Cisco (although Mikrotik supports it).  Certain VLAN
> error messages you can yell at Cisco.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Carlos Alcantar
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 4:58 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] stp
>
>
>
> on the access side where you might have issues with stp is if your
> customer is then connecting to a cisco switch these stp messages between
> equipment can get funny and start shutting off ports because one side
> supports it and the other doesn't.  you'll go crazy locating these issues.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Carlos Alcantar
>
> Race Communications / Race Team Member
>
> 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010
>
> Phone: +1 415 376 3314 / car...@race.com / http://www.race.com
>
>
> --
>
> *From:* Af  on behalf of Josh Reynolds <
> j...@kyneticwifi.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 2:38:04 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] stp
>
>
>
> You veered way off into something I wasn't even talking about.
>
> There's nothing wrong with a loop protect on an access port, but since its
> not an official standard, there will be variances in loop detection
> algorithm quality and design between vendors. YMMV.
>
> That said, there's nothing wrong with STP on access ports either.
>
>
>
> On Oct 25, 2016 4:27 PM, "George Skorup"  wrote:
>
> Care to explain? What's wrong with simple loop-protect on an edge port
> facing a dumb customer?
>
> On 10/25/2016 3:07 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
> *facepalm*
>
>
>
> On Oct 25, 2016 3:06 PM, "George Skorup"  wrote:
>
> Lots of switch vendors and even MikroTik (in the 6.37 branch, IIRC)
> support loop protection. If all you care about is stopping a loop, then use
> that. Use STP if you need its functionality.
>
> On 10/25/2016 1:16 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
> If one of the ports has a loop, it will block only that port. Obviously,
> disable STP on uplinks.
>
>
>
> On Oct 25, 2016 1:08 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
> But if you only have one upstream connection and you fall, it isn’t going
> to do anything, right?
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 12:01 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] stp
>
>
>
> STP is a safety net. Its not doing much unless you fall.
>
>
>
> On Oct 25, 2016 12:44 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
> How can STP being enabled help anything if you are not using it?
>
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:10 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Faisal Imtiaz]

very simple.. 

a) it is on by default in CISCO Equipment 
b) it catches people by surprise, cause it does not output to logs as to what 
is going on. 
c) one can only see the status of a blocked port if one issues the stp command. 
but the biggest one is... 

d) Cisco switches will react to STP messages being broadcast from a totally 
different section of a connected network... ! 

so, simply by the virtue of 'Cisco of Right' and they have the highest quantity 
of switches deployed in the field... and this is one of the biggest gotchas, 
when the folks experience it. they (cisco) automatically gets the brunt of 
the black eye ! 

No one starts a story with .. " Let me tell you how I made a mistake" but 
the story always starts with .." Ahhh what a POS, let me tell you what I had to 
endure due to this POS ! ". 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Ken Hohhof" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 6:18:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

> Why do people act like STP is some evil proprietary Cisco thing? If you don’t
> want it, turn if off, but don’t make it sound like Cisco pulled it out of 
> their
> ass, it’s a perfectly standard Layer 2 protocol.

> CDP you can yell at Cisco (although Mikrotik supports it). Certain VLAN error
> messages you can yell at Cisco.

> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Alcantar
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 4:58 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

> on the access side where you might have issues with stp is if your customer is
> then connecting to a cisco switch these stp messages between equipment can get
> funny and start shutting off ports because one side supports it and the other
> doesn't. you'll go crazy locating these issues.

> Carlos Alcantar

> Race Communications / Race Team Member

> 1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010

> Phone: +1 415 376 3314 / car...@race.com / http://www.race.com

> From: Af < af-boun...@afmug.com > on behalf of Josh Reynolds <
> j...@kyneticwifi.com >
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 2:38:04 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

> You veered way off into something I wasn't even talking about.

> There's nothing wrong with a loop protect on an access port, but since its not
> an official standard, there will be variances in loop detection algorithm
> quality and design between vendors. YMMV.

> That said, there's nothing wrong with STP on access ports either.

> On Oct 25, 2016 4:27 PM, "George Skorup" < geo...@cbcast.com > wrote:
>> Care to explain? What's wrong with simple loop-protect on an edge port 
>> facing a
>> dumb customer?

>> On 10/25/2016 3:07 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

>>> *facepalm*

>>> On Oct 25, 2016 3:06 PM, "George Skorup" < geo...@cbcast.com > wrote:
 Lots of switch vendors and even MikroTik (in the 6.37 branch, IIRC) 
 support loop
 protection. If all you care about is stopping a loop, then use that. Use 
 STP if
 you need its functionality.

 On 10/25/2016 1:16 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

> If one of the ports has a loop, it will block only that port. Obviously, 
> disable
> STP on uplinks.

> On Oct 25, 2016 1:08 PM, "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote:
>> But if you only have one upstream connection and you fall, it isn’t 
>> going to do
>> anything, right?

>> From: Josh Reynolds

>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 12:01 PM

>> To: af@afmug.com

>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

>> STP is a safety net. Its not doing much unless you fall.

>> On Oct 25, 2016 12:44 PM, "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote:
>>> How can STP being enabled help anything if you are not using it?

>>> From: Josh Luthman

>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:10 AM

>>> To: af@afmug.com

>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

>>> I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software 
>>> bridges are
>>> (R?) STP by default.

>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373

>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > 
>>> wrote:
 Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it on, 
 but I
 don't know how you're using it.
> https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html
 bp
 

 On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

> Nettonix.

> You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up 
> to that
> switch, it could help.

> On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" < 
> par...@cyberbroadband.net >
> wrote:

>> just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning 

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Tushar Patel]

Their contractor are still hiring installer in Austin.

Need to probably understand why those cities not others? 

Tushar


> On Oct 25, 2016, at 9:06 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
> 
> New ones. They're still deploying existing networks. They just opened up a 
> few new areas in Kansas City recently.
> 
> 
>> On Oct 25, 2016 9:03 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:
>> Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini"  wrote:
>>> https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook_source=gizmodo_facebook_medium=socialflow

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Josh Reynolds]

New ones. They're still deploying existing networks. They just opened up a
few new areas in Kansas City recently.

On Oct 25, 2016 9:03 PM, "Jaime Solorza"  wrote:

> Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios
>
> On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini"  wrote:
>
>> https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-cit
>> ies-1788214992?rev=1477443092657_campaign=socialflow_
>> gizmodo_facebook_source=gizmodo_facebook_medium=socialflow
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Trolling ISP support forums

[Mathew Howard]

I have to admit, that does sound enjoyable...

On Oct 25, 2016 8:38 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
wrote:

> I found a new pass time. Create an account at on of the major ISPs that
> uses forum based support and you get to tell asshole customers off without
> losing customers yourself, its a great release
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Jaime Solorza]

Moving folks to wireless Aye Dios

On Oct 25, 2016 7:56 PM, "Gino Villarini"  wrote:

> https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-
> cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657_campaign=
> socialflow_gizmodo_facebook_source=gizmodo_facebook&
> utm_medium=socialflow

Re: [AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

bloat isnt survivable? I thought that was a basic tenet of successful
ventures

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 8:56 PM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

> https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-
> cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657_campaign=
> socialflow_gizmodo_facebook_source=gizmodo_facebook&
> utm_medium=socialflow




-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

[AFMUG] Google Fiber is no more

[Gino Villarini]

https://gizmodo.com/google-fiber-halts-operations-in-ten-cities-1788214992?rev=1477443092657_campaign=socialflow_gizmodo_facebook_source=gizmodo_facebook_medium=socialflow

[AFMUG] Trolling ISP support forums

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

I found a new pass time. Create an account at on of the major ISPs that
uses forum based support and you get to tell asshole customers off without
losing customers yourself, its a great release

-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

[Jaime Solorza]

Damn.  I missed all the fun...work got it the way...

On Oct 25, 2016 6:47 PM, "Mathew Howard"  wrote:

> I had no idea that was such a common problem!
>
> On Oct 25, 2016 6:59 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> I hate when my leased spandex constricts when I am up the tower.
>>
>> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 5:00 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines
>>
>> Or worse,constrict on the tower you never leased spandex from.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016, 5:13 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> Well, you shouldn’t file that it was built if it wasn’t.  Or at least
>> have the decency to put up dummy antennas like the big telcos.  Don’t be
>> like the HFT guys and claim you built the link to a commercial tower where
>> you never even talked to the tower owner much less leased space.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 2:53 PM
>>
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines
>>
>> Any date prior to the deadline works.  You just need to do it.  Some do
>> it and never even put the radios on the air.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm
>>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 1:50 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines
>>
>>
>>
>> should I select the date we put them up, or todays date?
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Jesse DuPont <
>> jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net> wrote:
>>
>> Ha! Just received a couple of those, too. We logged into our FRN and
>> filed the notice of completed construction.
>>
>> *Jesse DuPont*
>>
>> Network Architect
>> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
>> Celerity Networks LLC
>>
>> Celerity Broadband LLC
>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>>
>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>>
>> On 10/25/16 1:43 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>>
>> we have a couple links, we were told all fcc stuff was good to go. We got
>> one of those vulture letter from Business Radio Licensing wanting us to
>> give them a fee to file our construction notification
>>
>>
>>
>> looking at one of the licenses, it gives me the option to file it, i
>> assume thats the case for all of them. are we going to get hammered for
>> filing now when theyve been in production use for some time? I assume they
>> mean it when they say if we havent filed by the deadline  theyll terminate
>> our licenses
>>
>>
>>
>> Im a bit irritated by this
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

[Mathew Howard]

I had no idea that was such a common problem!

On Oct 25, 2016 6:59 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> I hate when my leased spandex constricts when I am up the tower.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 5:00 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines
>
> Or worse,constrict on the tower you never leased spandex from.
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016, 5:13 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Well, you shouldn’t file that it was built if it wasn’t.  Or at least have
> the decency to put up dummy antennas like the big telcos.  Don’t be like
> the HFT guys and claim you built the link to a commercial tower where you
> never even talked to the tower owner much less leased space.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 2:53 PM
>
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines
>
> Any date prior to the deadline works.  You just need to do it.  Some do it
> and never even put the radios on the air.
>
>
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 1:50 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines
>
>
>
> should I select the date we put them up, or todays date?
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Jesse DuPont <
> jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net> wrote:
>
> Ha! Just received a couple of those, too. We logged into our FRN and filed
> the notice of completed construction.
>
> *Jesse DuPont*
>
> Network Architect
> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
> Celerity Networks LLC
>
> Celerity Broadband LLC
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>
> On 10/25/16 1:43 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>
> we have a couple links, we were told all fcc stuff was good to go. We got
> one of those vulture letter from Business Radio Licensing wanting us to
> give them a fee to file our construction notification
>
>
>
> looking at one of the licenses, it gives me the option to file it, i
> assume thats the case for all of them. are we going to get hammered for
> filing now when theyve been in production use for some time? I assume they
> mean it when they say if we havent filed by the deadline  theyll terminate
> our licenses
>
>
>
> Im a bit irritated by this
>
>
>
> --
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] TowerPoint Capital

[Lewis Bergman]

Never do a lease buyout. Either sell the tower and leases or keep
everything. Selling the leases means your still responsible for all tower
expenses.

I sold six towers recently and got paid a lot more than anything mentioned
here. I also reserved tower rights for free as long as I own my
corporation.

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016, 6:21 PM Travis Johnson  wrote:

> I have had two different companies like this approach me in the last year
> about a Tmobile lease I have on a tower. The catch is that they are taking
> a 99 year lease, regardless of the terms of your lease with the provider.
> It's not a bad deal if you want a lump sum amount (after you negotiate with
> them). Here is the summary of the proposed deal (which we did not do):
>
> Current tower lease is $1,300/month for another 18 years. They offered us
> $180,000 to buy it out, but they want a 99 year lease option. They started
> at $150,000 and I told them we would do it for $200,000. They came back at
> $180k and said that was the best they could do... so we walked away.
>
> The one concern we have with our lease with Tmobile is they have a 90 day
> "out" on the lease. I didn't prepare this lease, we took it over when we
> purchased the building and land that the tower sits on.
>
>
> Travis
>
>
>
> On 10/25/2016 5:08 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:
>
> Anyone have experience working with TowerPoint Capital?  They’re a tower
> lease acquirer, they’re offering to purchase a Verizon tower lease
> contract- reading through the agreement they seem a bit slimy.
>
>
>
> TIA,
>
> Scott
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

[Chuck McCown]

I hate when my leased spandex constricts when I am up the tower.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 5:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

Or worse,constrict on the tower you never leased spandex from.


On Tue, Oct 25, 2016, 5:13 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Well, you shouldn’t file that it was built if it wasn’t.  Or at least have 
the decency to put up dummy antennas like the big telcos.  Don’t be like the 
HFT guys and claim you built the link to a commercial tower where you never 
even talked to the tower owner much less leased space.





  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 2:53 PM


  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

  Any date prior to the deadline works.  You just need to do it.  Some do it 
and never even put the radios on the air.  



  From: That One Guy /sarcasm 

  Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 1:50 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines



  should I select the date we put them up, or todays date?

  On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Jesse DuPont  
wrote:

Ha! Just received a couple of those, too. We logged into our FRN and filed 
the notice of completed construction.

Jesse DuPont

Network Architect
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
Celerity Networks LLC

Celerity Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc

Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband


On 10/25/16 1:43 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

  we have a couple links, we were told all fcc stuff was good to go. We got 
one of those vulture letter from Business Radio Licensing wanting us to give 
them a fee to file our construction notification 



  looking at one of the licenses, it gives me the option to file it, i 
assume thats the case for all of them. are we going to get hammered for filing 
now when theyve been in production use for some time? I assume they mean it 
when they say if we havent filed by the deadline  theyll terminate our licenses



  Im a bit irritated by this




  -- 

  If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team 
as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.









  -- 

  If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] PMP450d vs reflector

[Daniel White]

I doubt it.  I have no idea though.



Daniel White

Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

ConVergence Technologies

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

  dwh...@converge-tech.com



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 7:49 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450d vs reflector



Does wideband include 4.9ghz?



On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 8:29 AM, Daniel White  > wrote:

Some thoughts…



-  450i SM was never intended for residential installation… but because 
it shares similar hardware to the 450i AP is the only SM today capable of wider 
channels and other goodness (also 5.2GHz as Ken pointed out).  Cambium is in a 
lot of markets where the ruggedized AP case was needed on the SM side.

-  The Force200 is dirt simple to put together Kurt.  Much easier than 
the Force 110 or even an old 27RD

-  The wideband SM design will also have version similar to the Force 
180



Daniel White

Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

ConVergence Technologies

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590 

  dwh...@converge-tech.com



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com  ] On Behalf 
Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 6:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450d vs reflector



And if you want to run your 450i AP in 5.1-5.3 GHz, the only SM choices are 
those expensive 450i SMs.  It’s not like you can buy a 5.2 GHz 450 SM.





From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 7:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450d vs reflector



Why can't someone make an SM with some gain that has the ease of assembly of 
the newer Nanobeams? I never have assembled a Force 200 but the old Force 110 
was a PITA compared to a simple Nanobeam. Also I really welcome this new style 
of SM with un-capped throughput at possibly at the $299 price level. The 450i 
SM's coming in at over $500/each is way to much for normal residential 
customers. There is no need for residential accounts to have that expensive 
ruggedized hardware in my area. So next question, will this new SM have a 
Gigabit or 10/100 Ethernet port? Also will it be 24v or 48v POE? Hopefully its 
still 24v because most of us will be swapping out existing 450 SM's with these 
and when the customers not home and needing to change the POE injector is going 
to be a huge issue.



Also if this integrated dish CPE that's un-capped will be $299 then that means 
they need a non-integrated non-dished CPE in the $200 price level, maybe phase 
out the P11 hardware for some P12 or P13 hardware with original SM form factor 
and un-capped throughput



On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 6:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  > wrote:

Oh, like UBNT and their “InnerFeed”.  Was never fond of that.  Especially the 
first versions which begged for water intrusion.



Seems like there would be some heat dissipation issues doing that with 450/450i 
electronics.



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com  ] On Behalf 
Of George Skorup
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 5:38 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450d vs reflector



The 110 and 450d is the sub-reflector assembly type. The Force200 took the 
electronics into the feed and dipole at the end.

On 10/24/2016 5:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

What’s the difference between Force 200 and 450d?  Cassegrain feed vs 
subreflector in radome?  Sheesh, make up your mind.  Is it a cost thing?





From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 4:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PMP450d vs reflector



I believe that's the idea, yes. Be interesting to see how they cram all of the 
guts onto a board at the Force200 size integrated feed tube dipole setup. I 
guess it doesn't have to be exactly the same size.

Be nice if they kept sync-over-power capability to spin a PTP variant. Hint 
hint. That's one thing I wish the Force200 had. IMHO.

On 10/24/2016 4:16 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:

I heard that the new 450i SM that will be end of 2017 will be possibly the 
Force 200 form factor and will be un-capped for $299.00



On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 11:15 AM, Ken Hohhof  > wrote:

We’ll see if Matt or Aaron jumps in, but I suspect the answer is yes and no.  
The 450D definitely knows it’s an integrated antenna, the external gain field 
is locked, but likely that’s just something programmed into NV storage.  For 
more CPU horsepower, I suspect you want the 450i SM which AFAIK still comes 
only in connectorized and integrated panel versions and costs $$$.





From: Af 

Re: [AFMUG] AT CEO: DirecTV Now Streaming Service Will Cost $35a Month

[Sean Heskett]

article says "next month"


On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I didn’t see when this is going to launch.
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 4:29 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AT CEO: DirecTV Now Streaming Service Will Cost
> $35a Month
>
>
> I wonder if it will require 5 Mbps like Direct TV On Demand, my first
> guess would be yes.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 4:00 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com; memb...@wispa.org
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] AT CEO: DirecTV Now Streaming Service Will Cost $35
> a Month
>
>
>
> http://variety.com/2016/digital/news/att-ceo-directv-
> now-will-cost-35-a-month-1201900052/
>

Re: [AFMUG] TowerPoint Capital

[Travis Johnson]

I have had two different companies like this approach me in the last 
year about a Tmobile lease I have on a tower. The catch is that they are 
taking a 99 year lease, regardless of the terms of your lease with the 
provider. It's not a bad deal if you want a lump sum amount (after you 
negotiate with them). Here is the summary of the proposed deal (which we 
did not do):


Current tower lease is $1,300/month for another 18 years. They offered 
us $180,000 to buy it out, but they want a 99 year lease option. They 
started at $150,000 and I told them we would do it for $200,000. They 
came back at $180k and said that was the best they could do... so we 
walked away.


The one concern we have with our lease with Tmobile is they have a 90 
day "out" on the lease. I didn't prepare this lease, we took it over 
when we purchased the building and land that the tower sits on.


Travis


On 10/25/2016 5:08 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:


Anyone have experience working with TowerPoint Capital?  They’re a 
tower lease acquirer, they’re offering to purchase a Verizon tower 
lease contract- reading through the agreement they seem a bit slimy.


TIA,

Scott

Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

[Lewis Bergman]

Yeah . I actually saw that one before I sent it but it was to funny not to
send

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016, 6:09 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:

> gotta love the autocorrect lewis.
>
> Chuck can your wife needle point some of these they are CLASSIC!!!
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
> Or worse,constrict on the tower you never leased spandex from.
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016, 5:13 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Well, you shouldn’t file that it was built if it wasn’t.  Or at least have
> the decency to put up dummy antennas like the big telcos.  Don’t be like
> the HFT guys and claim you built the link to a commercial tower where you
> never even talked to the tower owner much less leased space.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 2:53 PM
>
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines
>
> Any date prior to the deadline works.  You just need to do it.  Some do it
> and never even put the radios on the air.
>
>
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 1:50 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines
>
>
>
> should I select the date we put them up, or todays date?
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Jesse DuPont <
> jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net> wrote:
>
> Ha! Just received a couple of those, too. We logged into our FRN and filed
> the notice of completed construction.
>
> *Jesse DuPont*
>
> Network Architect
> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
> Celerity Networks LLC
>
> Celerity Broadband LLC
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>
> On 10/25/16 1:43 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>
> we have a couple links, we were told all fcc stuff was good to go. We got
> one of those vulture letter from Business Radio Licensing wanting us to
> give them a fee to file our construction notification
>
>
>
> looking at one of the licenses, it gives me the option to file it, i
> assume thats the case for all of them. are we going to get hammered for
> filing now when theyve been in production use for some time? I assume they
> mean it when they say if we havent filed by the deadline  theyll terminate
> our licenses
>
>
>
> Im a bit irritated by this
>
>
>
> --
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

[Sean Heskett]

gotta love the autocorrect lewis.

Chuck can your wife needle point some of these they are CLASSIC!!!


On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 5:00 PM, Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> Or worse,constrict on the tower you never leased spandex from.
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016, 5:13 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Well, you shouldn’t file that it was built if it wasn’t.  Or at least have
> the decency to put up dummy antennas like the big telcos.  Don’t be like
> the HFT guys and claim you built the link to a commercial tower where you
> never even talked to the tower owner much less leased space.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 2:53 PM
>
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines
>
> Any date prior to the deadline works.  You just need to do it.  Some do it
> and never even put the radios on the air.
>
>
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 1:50 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines
>
>
>
> should I select the date we put them up, or todays date?
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Jesse DuPont <
> jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net> wrote:
>
> Ha! Just received a couple of those, too. We logged into our FRN and filed
> the notice of completed construction.
>
> *Jesse DuPont*
>
> Network Architect
> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
> Celerity Networks LLC
>
> Celerity Broadband LLC
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>
> On 10/25/16 1:43 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>
> we have a couple links, we were told all fcc stuff was good to go. We got
> one of those vulture letter from Business Radio Licensing wanting us to
> give them a fee to file our construction notification
>
>
>
> looking at one of the licenses, it gives me the option to file it, i
> assume thats the case for all of them. are we going to get hammered for
> filing now when theyve been in production use for some time? I assume they
> mean it when they say if we havent filed by the deadline  theyll terminate
> our licenses
>
>
>
> Im a bit irritated by this
>
>
>
> --
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>

[AFMUG] TowerPoint Capital

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Anyone have experience working with TowerPoint Capital?  They’re a tower lease 
acquirer, they’re offering to purchase a Verizon tower lease contract- reading 
through the agreement they seem a bit slimy.

TIA,
Scott

Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

[Lewis Bergman]

Or worse,constrict on the tower you never leased spandex from.

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016, 5:13 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

Well, you shouldn’t file that it was built if it wasn’t.  Or at least have
the decency to put up dummy antennas like the big telcos.  Don’t be like
the HFT guys and claim you built the link to a commercial tower where you
never even talked to the tower owner much less leased space.





*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 2:53 PM


*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

Any date prior to the deadline works.  You just need to do it.  Some do it
and never even put the radios on the air.



*From:* That One Guy /sarcasm

*Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 1:50 PM

*To:* af@afmug.com

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines



should I select the date we put them up, or todays date?

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Jesse DuPont 
wrote:

Ha! Just received a couple of those, too. We logged into our FRN and filed
the notice of completed construction.

*Jesse DuPont*

Network Architect
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
Celerity Networks LLC

Celerity Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc

Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband

On 10/25/16 1:43 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

we have a couple links, we were told all fcc stuff was good to go. We got
one of those vulture letter from Business Radio Licensing wanting us to
give them a fee to file our construction notification



looking at one of the licenses, it gives me the option to file it, i assume
thats the case for all of them. are we going to get hammered for filing now
when theyve been in production use for some time? I assume they mean it
when they say if we havent filed by the deadline  theyll terminate our
licenses



Im a bit irritated by this



-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.







-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] AT CEO: DirecTV Now Streaming Service Will Cost $35a Month

[Sean Heskett]

i would guess sometime in early 2017.

personally i think they are throwing cover for their purchase
of time werner and this gives them a positive news cycle spin 

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 4:36 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I didn’t see when this is going to launch.
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 4:29 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AT CEO: DirecTV Now Streaming Service Will Cost
> $35a Month
>
>
> I wonder if it will require 5 Mbps like Direct TV On Demand, my first
> guess would be yes.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 4:00 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com; memb...@wispa.org
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] AT CEO: DirecTV Now Streaming Service Will Cost $35
> a Month
>
>
>
> http://variety.com/2016/digital/news/att-ceo-directv-
> now-will-cost-35-a-month-1201900052/
>

Re: [AFMUG] PMP450d vs reflector

[Mathew Howard]

Assembling a Force 200 is nothing like a Force 110, I actually prefer the
design to the PowerBeams - yes, there are a few screws you have to put in,
instead of just sticking it together, but it only takes a few seconds
longer and it doesn't get all rattly after it's been up awhile like
PowerBeams do...

On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 7:05 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:

> Why can't someone make an SM with some gain that has the ease of assembly
> of the newer Nanobeams? I never have assembled a Force 200 but the old
> Force 110 was a PITA compared to a simple Nanobeam. Also I really welcome
> this new style of SM with un-capped throughput at possibly at the $299
> price level. The 450i SM's coming in at over $500/each is way to much for
> normal residential customers. There is no need for residential accounts to
> have that expensive ruggedized hardware in my area. So next question, will
> this new SM have a Gigabit or 10/100 Ethernet port? Also will it be 24v or
> 48v POE? Hopefully its still 24v because most of us will be swapping out
> existing 450 SM's with these and when the customers not home and needing to
> change the POE injector is going to be a huge issue.
>
> Also if this integrated dish CPE that's un-capped will be $299 then that
> means they need a non-integrated non-dished CPE in the $200 price level,
> maybe phase out the P11 hardware for some P12 or P13 hardware with original
> SM form factor and un-capped throughput
>
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 6:43 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Oh, like UBNT and their “InnerFeed”.  Was never fond of that.  Especially
>> the first versions which begged for water intrusion.
>>
>>
>>
>> Seems like there would be some heat dissipation issues doing that with
>> 450/450i electronics.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *George Skorup
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 5:38 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] PMP450d vs reflector
>>
>>
>>
>> The 110 and 450d is the sub-reflector assembly type. The Force200 took
>> the electronics into the feed and dipole at the end.
>>
>> On 10/24/2016 5:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> What’s the difference between Force 200 and 450d?  Cassegrain feed vs
>> subreflector in radome?  Sheesh, make up your mind.  Is it a cost thing?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *George Skorup
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 4:43 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] PMP450d vs reflector
>>
>>
>>
>> I believe that's the idea, yes. Be interesting to see how they cram all
>> of the guts onto a board at the Force200 size integrated feed tube dipole
>> setup. I guess it doesn't have to be exactly the same size.
>>
>> Be nice if they kept sync-over-power capability to spin a PTP variant.
>> Hint hint. That's one thing I wish the Force200 had. IMHO.
>>
>> On 10/24/2016 4:16 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>>
>> I heard that the new 450i SM that will be end of 2017 will be possibly
>> the Force 200 form factor and will be un-capped for $299.00
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 11:15 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> We’ll see if Matt or Aaron jumps in, but I suspect the answer is yes and
>> no.  The 450D definitely knows it’s an integrated antenna, the external
>> gain field is locked, but likely that’s just something programmed into NV
>> storage.  For more CPU horsepower, I suspect you want the 450i SM which
>> AFAIK still comes only in connectorized and integrated panel versions and
>> costs $$$.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Kurt Fankhauser
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 9:49 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] PMP450d vs reflector
>>
>>
>>
>> Does the 450D have the exact same internal PCB board has original
>> 450SM's? Reason I am asking is does the 45D have capability of getting more
>> throughput to each individual SM vs the original 450 which capped out at
>> about 70mbps. I am wondering because with the extra wide channels coming
>> with 450 (40mhz) can we expect more speed to the clients?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 3:50 PM, Matt 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Old thread but do you see 3db more signal with them vs a standard sm with
>> reflector?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 11:51 AM, SmarterBroadband <
>> li...@smarterbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>> We use them a lot.  Most installs.
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Daniel White
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 28, 2016 8:13 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] PMP450d vs reflector
>>
>>
>>
>> Personally I like them.  Reflectors and the classic Canopy case SM’s are
>> certainly more popular though.
>>
>>
>>
>> There are a number of WISP’s that buy them though.  I think the 4 pack
>> and only 20Mbps/Unlimited keys turns some people off.
>>
>>
>>
>> Daniel White
>>
>> Managing 

Re: [AFMUG] AT CEO: DirecTV Now Streaming Service Will Cost $35a Month

[Chuck McCown]

I didn’t see when this is going to launch.

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 4:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AT CEO: DirecTV Now Streaming Service Will Cost $35a 
Month

I wonder if it will require 5 Mbps like Direct TV On Demand, my first guess 
would be yes.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 4:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com; memb...@wispa.org
Subject: [AFMUG] AT CEO: DirecTV Now Streaming Service Will Cost $35 a Month

 

http://variety.com/2016/digital/news/att-ceo-directv-now-will-cost-35-a-month-1201900052/

Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

The irritation isn't with them, it's with a now defunct company that told
us it was done

On Oct 25, 2016 5:14 PM, "Ken Hohhof"  wrote:

> I wouldn’t be too harsh on them.  They did you a service by sending you
> the notification, and now you can file the form yourself for free.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *That One Guy
> /sarcasm
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 2:43 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] buildout deadlines
>
>
>
> we have a couple links, we were told all fcc stuff was good to go. We got
> one of those vulture letter from Business Radio Licensing wanting us to
> give them a fee to file our construction notification
>
>
>
> looking at one of the licenses, it gives me the option to file it, i
> assume thats the case for all of them. are we going to get hammered for
> filing now when theyve been in production use for some time? I assume they
> mean it when they say if we havent filed by the deadline  theyll terminate
> our licenses
>
>
>
> Im a bit irritated by this
>
>
>
> --
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] AT CEO: DirecTV Now Streaming Service Will Cost $35 a Month

[Ken Hohhof]

I wonder if it will require 5 Mbps like Direct TV On Demand, my first guess 
would be yes.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 4:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com; memb...@wispa.org
Subject: [AFMUG] AT CEO: DirecTV Now Streaming Service Will Cost $35 a Month

 

 

 
http://variety.com/2016/digital/news/att-ceo-directv-now-will-cost-35-a-month-1201900052/

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Ken Hohhof]

Why do people act like STP is some evil proprietary Cisco thing?  If you
don't want it, turn if off, but don't make it sound like Cisco pulled it out
of their ass, it's a perfectly standard Layer 2 protocol.

 

CDP you can yell at Cisco (although Mikrotik supports it).  Certain VLAN
error messages you can yell at Cisco.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Alcantar
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 4:58 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

 

on the access side where you might have issues with stp is if your customer
is then connecting to a cisco switch these stp messages between equipment
can get funny and start shutting off ports because one side supports it and
the other doesn't.  you'll go crazy locating these issues.

 

 

 

Carlos Alcantar

Race Communications / Race Team Member 

1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010

Phone: +1 415 376 3314 /   car...@race.com /
 http://www.race.com

 

  _  

From: Af  > on behalf of
Josh Reynolds  >
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 2:38:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp 

 

You veered way off into something I wasn't even talking about.

There's nothing wrong with a loop protect on an access port, but since its
not an official standard, there will be variances in loop detection
algorithm quality and design between vendors. YMMV.

That said, there's nothing wrong with STP on access ports either.

 

On Oct 25, 2016 4:27 PM, "George Skorup"  > wrote:

Care to explain? What's wrong with simple loop-protect on an edge port
facing a dumb customer?

On 10/25/2016 3:07 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

*facepalm*

 

On Oct 25, 2016 3:06 PM, "George Skorup"  > wrote:

Lots of switch vendors and even MikroTik (in the 6.37 branch, IIRC) support
loop protection. If all you care about is stopping a loop, then use that.
Use STP if you need its functionality.

On 10/25/2016 1:16 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

If one of the ports has a loop, it will block only that port. Obviously,
disable STP on uplinks.

 

On Oct 25, 2016 1:08 PM, "Chuck McCown"  > wrote:

But if you only have one upstream connection and you fall, it isn't going to
do anything, right?

 

From: Josh Reynolds 

Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 12:01 PM

To: af@afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

 

STP is a safety net. Its not doing much unless you fall.

 

On Oct 25, 2016 12:44 PM, "Chuck McCown"  > wrote:

How can STP being enabled help anything if you are not using it?

 

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:10 AM

To: af@afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

 

I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software bridges
are (R?) STP by default.

 

 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340  
Direct: 937-552-2343  
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince  > wrote:

Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it on, but I
don't know how you're using it.

https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html

bp

 

On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

Nettonix.

You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to that
switch, it could help.

 

On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  > wrote:

 

just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree protocol was
enabled.

we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects - but i
don't run stp anywhere

else.  any reason to leave this on?

 

thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

[Ken Hohhof]

I wouldn’t be too harsh on them.  They did you a service by sending you the 
notification, and now you can file the form yourself for free.

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 2:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

 

we have a couple links, we were told all fcc stuff was good to go. We got one 
of those vulture letter from Business Radio Licensing wanting us to give them a 
fee to file our construction notification

 

looking at one of the licenses, it gives me the option to file it, i assume 
thats the case for all of them. are we going to get hammered for filing now 
when theyve been in production use for some time? I assume they mean it when 
they say if we havent filed by the deadline  theyll terminate our licenses

 

Im a bit irritated by this


 

-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

[Ken Hohhof]

Well, you shouldn’t file that it was built if it wasn’t.  Or at least have the 
decency to put up dummy antennas like the big telcos.  Don’t be like the HFT 
guys and claim you built the link to a commercial tower where you never even 
talked to the tower owner much less leased space.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 2:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

 

Any date prior to the deadline works.  You just need to do it.  Some do it and 
never even put the radios on the air.  

 

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 

Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 1:50 PM

To: af@afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

 

should I select the date we put them up, or todays date?

 

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Jesse DuPont  > wrote:

Ha! Just received a couple of those, too. We logged into our FRN and filed the 
notice of completed construction.

Jesse DuPont

Network Architect
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net  
Celerity Networks LLC

Celerity Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com  /celeritynetworksllc

Like us! facebook.com  /celeritybroadband


On 10/25/16 1:43 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

we have a couple links, we were told all fcc stuff was good to go. We got one 
of those vulture letter from Business Radio Licensing wanting us to give them a 
fee to file our construction notification 

 

looking at one of the licenses, it gives me the option to file it, i assume 
thats the case for all of them. are we going to get hammered for filing now 
when theyve been in production use for some time? I assume they mean it when 
they say if we havent filed by the deadline  theyll terminate our licenses

 

Im a bit irritated by this


 

-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

 





 

-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Carlos Alcantar]

on the access side where you might have issues with stp is if your customer is 
then connecting to a cisco switch these stp messages between equipment can get 
funny and start shutting off ports because one side supports it and the other 
doesn't.  you'll go crazy locating these issues.




Carlos Alcantar

Race Communications / Race Team Member

1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010

Phone: +1 415 376 3314 / car...@race.com / 
http://www.race.com


From: Af  on behalf of Josh Reynolds 

Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 2:38:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp


You veered way off into something I wasn't even talking about.

There's nothing wrong with a loop protect on an access port, but since its not 
an official standard, there will be variances in loop detection algorithm 
quality and design between vendors. YMMV.

That said, there's nothing wrong with STP on access ports either.

On Oct 25, 2016 4:27 PM, "George Skorup" 
> wrote:
Care to explain? What's wrong with simple loop-protect on an edge port facing a 
dumb customer?

On 10/25/2016 3:07 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

*facepalm*

On Oct 25, 2016 3:06 PM, "George Skorup" 
> wrote:
Lots of switch vendors and even MikroTik (in the 6.37 branch, IIRC) support 
loop protection. If all you care about is stopping a loop, then use that. Use 
STP if you need its functionality.

On 10/25/2016 1:16 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

If one of the ports has a loop, it will block only that port. Obviously, 
disable STP on uplinks.

On Oct 25, 2016 1:08 PM, "Chuck McCown" 
> wrote:
But if you only have one upstream connection and you fall, it isn't going to do 
anything, right?

From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 12:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp


STP is a safety net. Its not doing much unless you fall.


On Oct 25, 2016 12:44 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
How can STP being enabled help anything if you are not using it?

From: Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software bridges are 
(R?) STP by default.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it on, but I 
don't know how you're using it.

https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html

bp




On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

Nettonix.

You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to that 
switch, it could help.


On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  wrote:

just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree protocol was 
enabled.
we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects - but i don't 
run stp anywhere
else.  any reason to leave this on?

thanks

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Josh Reynolds]

You veered way off into something I wasn't even talking about.

There's nothing wrong with a loop protect on an access port, but since its
not an official standard, there will be variances in loop detection
algorithm quality and design between vendors. YMMV.

That said, there's nothing wrong with STP on access ports either.

On Oct 25, 2016 4:27 PM, "George Skorup"  wrote:

> Care to explain? What's wrong with simple loop-protect on an edge port
> facing a dumb customer?
>
> On 10/25/2016 3:07 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
> *facepalm*
>
> On Oct 25, 2016 3:06 PM, "George Skorup"  wrote:
>
>> Lots of switch vendors and even MikroTik (in the 6.37 branch, IIRC)
>> support loop protection. If all you care about is stopping a loop, then use
>> that. Use STP if you need its functionality.
>>
>> On 10/25/2016 1:16 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>
>> If one of the ports has a loop, it will block only that port. Obviously,
>> disable STP on uplinks.
>>
>> On Oct 25, 2016 1:08 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>>> But if you only have one upstream connection and you fall, it isn’t
>>> going to do anything, right?
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 12:01 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] stp
>>>
>>>
>>> STP is a safety net. Its not doing much unless you fall.
>>>
>>> On Oct 25, 2016 12:44 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>>
 How can STP being enabled help anything if you are not using it?

 *From:* Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:10 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] stp

 I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software
 bridges are (R?) STP by default.


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince 
 wrote:

> Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it on,
> but I don't know how you're using it.
>
> https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
> Nettonix.
>
> You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to
> that switch, it could help.
>
> On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree
>> protocol was enabled.
>> we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects -
>> but i don't run stp anywhere
>> else.  any reason to leave this on?
>>
>> thanks
>>
>>
>>
>
>

>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[George Skorup]

Care to explain? What's wrong with simple loop-protect on an edge port 
facing a dumb customer?


On 10/25/2016 3:07 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:


*facepalm*


On Oct 25, 2016 3:06 PM, "George Skorup" > wrote:


Lots of switch vendors and even MikroTik (in the 6.37 branch,
IIRC) support loop protection. If all you care about is stopping a
loop, then use that. Use STP if you need its functionality.

On 10/25/2016 1:16 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:


If one of the ports has a loop, it will block only that port.
Obviously, disable STP on uplinks.


On Oct 25, 2016 1:08 PM, "Chuck McCown" > wrote:

But if you only have one upstream connection and you fall, it
isn’t going to do anything, right?
*From:* Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 12:01 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] stp

STP is a safety net. Its not doing much unless you fall.

On Oct 25, 2016 12:44 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

How can STP being enabled help anything if you are not
using it?
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:10 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] stp
I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik
software bridges are (R?) STP by default.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince
 wrote:

Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I
would leave it on, but I don't know how you're using it.

https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html


bp


On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:


Nettonix.

You could always leave it on... If your access
network is layer2 up to that switch, it could help.

On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"
 wrote:

just discovered on one of our nettronix switches
spanning tree protocol was enabled.
we've run this switch probably four months - no
real side effects - but i don't run stp anywhere
else. any reason to leave this on?
thanks

[AFMUG] AT CEO: DirecTV Now Streaming Service Will Cost $35 a Month

[Sean Heskett]

http://variety.com/2016/digital/news/att-ceo-directv-now-will-cost-35-a-month-1201900052/

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 650 vs AF5x/NxN

[Gino Villarini]

why not? the nxn adapters are just spliters afaik...

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Sam Morris  wrote:

> Does Cambium have the ability (using presumably ptp650) to bind radios
> together ala the NxN to achieve > 1 Gbps throughput in the 5 GHz spectrum?
>

[AFMUG] OpenSRS Email?

[Christopher Gray]

I'm looking for feedback on the OpenSRS email product. Does anyone here use
it / have any thoughts? Offlist is ok if necessary.

Thank you - Chris

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Chuck McCown]

Oh, loop on the same circuit...

I get it now.  

From: Faisal Imtiaz 
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 2:23 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

The obvious benefit of using STP (or any  flavor of it) is that it protects the 
layer2 network from loops.
What is a loop... see a cat or dog video of it chasing it's own tail.. now 
watch it non-stop !

The short coming of having STP (or any flavor of it)  ON on a port that is 
connecting to someone else's network device is...
they can create a Loop and thus signal the upstream devices to block the 
port... obviously this is a bad thing.

The fun part of STP (sarcastically speaking) is that for most devices it does 
not report to the system logs, and one has to issue a separate command to see 
what is the status.
But the stuff that can catch a service provider off guard, from the left field 
is that some devices e.g. Cisco's, will listen and react to STP packets 
from other connected networks, leaving one with a 'wtf look' pulling one's hair 
out.
Sometimes such conditions can also be created is the upstream puts a loop-back 
on the port for testing (fiber connections).

I have a say that recently I saw strange STP behavior between a MT (CCR) and 
Netonix switch, where a STP loop was detected, while the configuration clearly 
suggest that there should not have been a loop.

It's like the sharp blunt nose electrician scissors, they are awesome at 
clipping wires, clipping tie wraps, blunt nose is good... but it is also very 
easy to cut your hand with them if you don't use them properly

:)  


Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net




  From: "George Skorup" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 4:06:11 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

  Lots of switch vendors and even MikroTik (in the 6.37 branch, IIRC) support 
loop protection. If all you care about is stopping a loop, then use that. Use 
STP if you need its functionality.


  On 10/25/2016 1:16 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

If one of the ports has a loop, it will block only that port. Obviously, 
disable STP on uplinks.


On Oct 25, 2016 1:08 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  But if you only have one upstream connection and you fall, it isn’t going 
to do anything, right?

  From: Josh Reynolds
  Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 12:01 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

  STP is a safety net. Its not doing much unless you fall.


  On Oct 25, 2016 12:44 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

How can STP being enabled help anything if you are not using it?

From: Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software 
bridges are (R?) STP by default.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince  
wrote:

  Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it 
on, but I don't know how you're using it.

https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html

bp


On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

Nettonix.

You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up 
to that switch, it could help.


On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
 wrote:


  just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree 
protocol was enabled.
  we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects 
- but i don't run stp anywhere
  else.  any reason to leave this on?

  thanks

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Faisal Imtiaz]

The obvious benefit of using STP (or any flavor of it) is that it protects the 
layer2 network from loops. 
What is a loop... see a cat or dog video of it chasing it's own tail.. now 
watch it non-stop ! 

The short coming of having STP (or any flavor of it) ON on a port that is 
connecting to someone else's network device is... 
they can create a Loop and thus signal the upstream devices to block the 
port... obviously this is a bad thing. 

The fun part of STP (sarcastically speaking) is that for most devices it does 
not report to the system logs, and one has to issue a separate command to see 
what is the status. 
But the stuff that can catch a service provider off guard, from the left field 
is that some devices e.g. Cisco's, will listen and react to STP packets 
from other connected networks, leaving one with a 'wtf look' pulling one's hair 
out. 
Sometimes such conditions can also be created is the upstream puts a loop-back 
on the port for testing (fiber connections). 

I have a say that recently I saw strange STP behavior between a MT (CCR) and 
Netonix switch, where a STP loop was detected, while the configuration clearly 
suggest that there should not have been a loop. 

It's like the sharp blunt nose electrician scissors, they are awesome at 
clipping wires, clipping tie wraps, blunt nose is good... but it is also very 
easy to cut your hand with them if you don't use them properly 

:) 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "George Skorup" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 4:06:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

> Lots of switch vendors and even MikroTik (in the 6.37 branch, IIRC) support 
> loop
> protection. If all you care about is stopping a loop, then use that. Use STP 
> if
> you need its functionality.

> On 10/25/2016 1:16 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

>> If one of the ports has a loop, it will block only that port. Obviously, 
>> disable
>> STP on uplinks.

>> On Oct 25, 2016 1:08 PM, "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote:

>>> But if you only have one upstream connection and you fall, it isn’t going 
>>> to do
>>> anything, right?
>>> From: Josh Reynolds
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 12:01 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

>>> STP is a safety net. Its not doing much unless you fall.
>>> On Oct 25, 2016 12:44 PM, "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote:

 How can STP being enabled help anything if you are not using it?
 From: Josh Luthman
 Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:10 AM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp
 I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software bridges 
 are
 (R?) STP by default.
 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373
 On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince < part15...@gmail.com > 
 wrote:

> Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it on, 
> but I
> don't know how you're using it.
>> https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html
> bp
> 
> On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

>> Nettonix.

>> You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to 
>> that
>> switch, it could help.
>> On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" < par...@cyberbroadband.net 
>> >
>> wrote:

>>> just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree protocol 
>>> was
>>> enabled.
>>> we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects - but 
>>> i don't
>>> run stp anywhere
>>> else. any reason to leave this on?
>>> thanks

Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

[Josh Reynolds]

I'm waiting for the day when you ask that question and the answer is "Yes".
That's a thread that will be a fun read :P

On Oct 25, 2016 2:59 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
wrote:

> Ive always put my bosses name as the signature, he approves it, am i going
> to prison?
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:52 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Any date prior to the deadline works.  You just need to do it.  Some do
>> it and never even put the radios on the air.
>>
>> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 1:50 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines
>>
>> should I select the date we put them up, or todays date?
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Jesse DuPont <
>> jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Ha! Just received a couple of those, too. We logged into our FRN and
>>> filed the notice of completed construction.
>>>
>>> *Jesse DuPont*
>>>
>>> Network Architect
>>> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
>>> Celerity Networks LLC
>>>
>>> Celerity Broadband LLC
>>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>>>
>>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>>> On 10/25/16 1:43 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>>>
>>> we have a couple links, we were told all fcc stuff was good to go. We
>>> got one of those vulture letter from Business Radio Licensing wanting us to
>>> give them a fee to file our construction notification
>>>
>>> looking at one of the licenses, it gives me the option to file it, i
>>> assume thats the case for all of them. are we going to get hammered for
>>> filing now when theyve been in production use for some time? I assume they
>>> mean it when they say if we havent filed by the deadline  theyll terminate
>>> our licenses
>>>
>>> Im a bit irritated by this
>>>
>>> --
>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Josh Reynolds]

*facepalm*

On Oct 25, 2016 3:06 PM, "George Skorup"  wrote:

> Lots of switch vendors and even MikroTik (in the 6.37 branch, IIRC)
> support loop protection. If all you care about is stopping a loop, then use
> that. Use STP if you need its functionality.
>
> On 10/25/2016 1:16 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
> If one of the ports has a loop, it will block only that port. Obviously,
> disable STP on uplinks.
>
> On Oct 25, 2016 1:08 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> But if you only have one upstream connection and you fall, it isn’t going
>> to do anything, right?
>>
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 12:01 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] stp
>>
>>
>> STP is a safety net. Its not doing much unless you fall.
>>
>> On Oct 25, 2016 12:44 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>>> How can STP being enabled help anything if you are not using it?
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:10 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] stp
>>>
>>> I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software
>>> bridges are (R?) STP by default.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it on,
 but I don't know how you're using it.

 https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html

 bp
 


 On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

 Nettonix.

 You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to
 that switch, it could help.

 On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
 wrote:

>
> just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree
> protocol was enabled.
> we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects -
> but i don't run stp anywhere
> else.  any reason to leave this on?
>
> thanks
>
>
>


>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[George Skorup]

Lots of switch vendors and even MikroTik (in the 6.37 branch, IIRC) 
support loop protection. If all you care about is stopping a loop, then 
use that. Use STP if you need its functionality.


On 10/25/2016 1:16 PM, Josh Reynolds wrote:


If one of the ports has a loop, it will block only that port. 
Obviously, disable STP on uplinks.



On Oct 25, 2016 1:08 PM, "Chuck McCown" > wrote:


But if you only have one upstream connection and you fall, it
isn’t going to do anything, right?
*From:* Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 12:01 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] stp

STP is a safety net. Its not doing much unless you fall.

On Oct 25, 2016 12:44 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

How can STP being enabled help anything if you are not using it?
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:10 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] stp
I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik
software bridges are (R?) STP by default.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince
 wrote:

Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would
leave it on, but I don't know how you're using it.

https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html


bp


On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:


Nettonix.

You could always leave it on... If your access network is
layer2 up to that switch, it could help.

On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"
 wrote:

just discovered on one of our nettronix switches
spanning tree protocol was enabled.
we've run this switch probably four months - no real
side effects - but i don't run stp anywhere
else. any reason to leave this on?
thanks

Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

[Chuck McCown]

What you in here for?

I put the wrong completion date on a federal form...

That’s cold man...

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 1:59 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

Ive always put my bosses name as the signature, he approves it, am i going to 
prison?

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:52 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Any date prior to the deadline works.  You just need to do it.  Some do it 
and never even put the radios on the air.  

  From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 1:50 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

  should I select the date we put them up, or todays date?

  On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Jesse DuPont  
wrote:

Ha! Just received a couple of those, too. We logged into our FRN and filed 
the notice of completed construction.


Jesse DuPont

Network Architect
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
Celerity Networks LLC

Celerity Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc

Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband


On 10/25/16 1:43 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

  we have a couple links, we were told all fcc stuff was good to go. We got 
one of those vulture letter from Business Radio Licensing wanting us to give 
them a fee to file our construction notification 

  looking at one of the licenses, it gives me the option to file it, i 
assume thats the case for all of them. are we going to get hammered for filing 
now when theyve been in production use for some time? I assume they mean it 
when they say if we havent filed by the deadline  theyll terminate our licenses

  Im a bit irritated by this


  -- 

  If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team 
as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.






  -- 

  If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.




-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

[Chuck McCown]

Any date prior to the deadline works.  You just need to do it.  Some do it and 
never even put the radios on the air.  

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 1:50 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

should I select the date we put them up, or todays date?

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Jesse DuPont  
wrote:

  Ha! Just received a couple of those, too. We logged into our FRN and filed 
the notice of completed construction.


  Jesse DuPont

  Network Architect
  email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
  Celerity Networks LLC

  Celerity Broadband LLC
  Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc

  Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband


  On 10/25/16 1:43 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

we have a couple links, we were told all fcc stuff was good to go. We got 
one of those vulture letter from Business Radio Licensing wanting us to give 
them a fee to file our construction notification 

looking at one of the licenses, it gives me the option to file it, i assume 
thats the case for all of them. are we going to get hammered for filing now 
when theyve been in production use for some time? I assume they mean it when 
they say if we havent filed by the deadline  theyll terminate our licenses

Im a bit irritated by this


-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.






-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Ive always put my bosses name as the signature, he approves it, am i going
to prison?

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:52 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Any date prior to the deadline works.  You just need to do it.  Some do it
> and never even put the radios on the air.
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 1:50 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines
>
> should I select the date we put them up, or todays date?
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Jesse DuPont <
> jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net> wrote:
>
>> Ha! Just received a couple of those, too. We logged into our FRN and
>> filed the notice of completed construction.
>>
>> *Jesse DuPont*
>>
>> Network Architect
>> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
>> Celerity Networks LLC
>>
>> Celerity Broadband LLC
>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>>
>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>> On 10/25/16 1:43 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>>
>> we have a couple links, we were told all fcc stuff was good to go. We got
>> one of those vulture letter from Business Radio Licensing wanting us to
>> give them a fee to file our construction notification
>>
>> looking at one of the licenses, it gives me the option to file it, i
>> assume thats the case for all of them. are we going to get hammered for
>> filing now when theyve been in production use for some time? I assume they
>> mean it when they say if we havent filed by the deadline  theyll terminate
>> our licenses
>>
>> Im a bit irritated by this
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

[Sean Heskett]

date they were live and passing traffic

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 1:50 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> should I select the date we put them up, or todays date?
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Jesse DuPont <
> jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net> wrote:
>
>> Ha! Just received a couple of those, too. We logged into our FRN and
>> filed the notice of completed construction.
>>
>> *Jesse DuPont*
>>
>> Network Architect
>> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
>> Celerity Networks LLC
>>
>> Celerity Broadband LLC
>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>>
>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>> On 10/25/16 1:43 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>>
>> we have a couple links, we were told all fcc stuff was good to go. We got
>> one of those vulture letter from Business Radio Licensing wanting us to
>> give them a fee to file our construction notification
>>
>> looking at one of the licenses, it gives me the option to file it, i
>> assume thats the case for all of them. are we going to get hammered for
>> filing now when theyve been in production use for some time? I assume they
>> mean it when they say if we havent filed by the deadline  theyll terminate
>> our licenses
>>
>> Im a bit irritated by this
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

[Seth Mattinen]

On 10/25/16 12:43, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

we have a couple links, we were told all fcc stuff was good to go. We
got one of those vulture letter from Business Radio Licensing wanting us
to give them a fee to file our construction notification



You can just go into ULS and do it for free yourself. Or your 
coordinator can do that. There's no FCC fee for it.


Business Radio Licensing is charging a fee to click boxes in ULS for 
people that don't know any better.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Josh Reynolds]

I don't think we're understanding one another, but that's okay.

I don't really care. Today has been like a continuation of Monday :/

On Oct 25, 2016 2:21 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
wrote:

> If youre not using it, and you use it, you did something very wrong
> I prefer it off by default, you can deal with a loop remotely but not a
> disabled port
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 1:16 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> If one of the ports has a loop, it will block only that port. Obviously,
>> disable STP on uplinks.
>>
>> On Oct 25, 2016 1:08 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>>> But if you only have one upstream connection and you fall, it isn’t
>>> going to do anything, right?
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Reynolds
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 12:01 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] stp
>>>
>>>
>>> STP is a safety net. Its not doing much unless you fall.
>>>
>>> On Oct 25, 2016 12:44 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>>
 How can STP being enabled help anything if you are not using it?

 *From:* Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:10 AM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] stp

 I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software
 bridges are (R?) STP by default.


 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince 
 wrote:

> Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it on,
> but I don't know how you're using it.
>
> https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
> Nettonix.
>
> You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to
> that switch, it could help.
>
> On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree
>> protocol was enabled.
>> we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects -
>> but i don't run stp anywhere
>> else.  any reason to leave this on?
>>
>> thanks
>>
>>
>>
>
>

>>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

should I select the date we put them up, or todays date?

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 2:45 PM, Jesse DuPont  wrote:

> Ha! Just received a couple of those, too. We logged into our FRN and filed
> the notice of completed construction.
>
> *Jesse DuPont*
>
> Network Architect
> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
> Celerity Networks LLC
>
> Celerity Broadband LLC
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
> On 10/25/16 1:43 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>
> we have a couple links, we were told all fcc stuff was good to go. We got
> one of those vulture letter from Business Radio Licensing wanting us to
> give them a fee to file our construction notification
>
> looking at one of the licenses, it gives me the option to file it, i
> assume thats the case for all of them. are we going to get hammered for
> filing now when theyve been in production use for some time? I assume they
> mean it when they say if we havent filed by the deadline  theyll terminate
> our licenses
>
> Im a bit irritated by this
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

[Sean Heskett]

whomever coordinated the link can file the construction notice for you
and/or you can log into the ULS and submit the construction notice yourself.

-sean


On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 1:43 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> we have a couple links, we were told all fcc stuff was good to go. We got
> one of those vulture letter from Business Radio Licensing wanting us to
> give them a fee to file our construction notification
>
> looking at one of the licenses, it gives me the option to file it, i
> assume thats the case for all of them. are we going to get hammered for
> filing now when theyve been in production use for some time? I assume they
> mean it when they say if we havent filed by the deadline  theyll terminate
> our licenses
>
> Im a bit irritated by this
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] drone for alignment

[Sean Heskett]

it would either cut the string with a blade or get it wound up around one
of the motors pretty quick and crash.

2 cents

-sean


On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 1:28 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I dont know if our drone give GPS 3d coordinates, and if it does how
> accurate they are. Have any of you guys with the really expensive ones
> dicked around with tying a string to your drone and then to the center of
> an antenna and sent the drone out to a 3d coordinate in the path?
>
> I dont know alot about drone capabilities, thus far ive refused to fly
> ours cause i dont have the permission slip from uncle sam yet. Im guessing
> that the gps isnt accurate enough to get a good stringline with a drones
> limited cargo capacity for pulling a very long line taut.
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] buildout deadlines

[Jesse DuPont]

  
  
Ha! Just received a couple of those, too. We logged into our FRN and
filed the notice of completed construction.


  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Jesse DuPont

  Network
  Architect
  email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
  Celerity Networks LLC
  Celerity
  Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
  Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
  

  

On 10/25/16 1:43 PM, That One Guy
  /sarcasm wrote:


  we have a couple links, we were told all fcc stuff
was good to go. We got one of those vulture letter from Business
Radio Licensing wanting us to give them a fee to file our
construction notification


looking at one of the licenses, it gives me the option to
  file it, i assume thats the case for all of them. are we going
  to get hammered for filing now when theyve been in production
  use for some time? I assume they mean it when they say if we
  havent filed by the deadline  theyll terminate our licenses


Im a bit irritated by this
  
  
  -- 
  

  
If you only see yourself
as part of the team but you don't see your team
as part of yourself you have already failed as
part of the team.
  

  

  


  

[AFMUG] buildout deadlines

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

we have a couple links, we were told all fcc stuff was good to go. We got
one of those vulture letter from Business Radio Licensing wanting us to
give them a fee to file our construction notification

looking at one of the licenses, it gives me the option to file it, i assume
thats the case for all of them. are we going to get hammered for filing now
when theyve been in production use for some time? I assume they mean it
when they say if we havent filed by the deadline  theyll terminate our
licenses

Im a bit irritated by this

-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

[AFMUG] drone for alignment

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

I dont know if our drone give GPS 3d coordinates, and if it does how
accurate they are. Have any of you guys with the really expensive ones
dicked around with tying a string to your drone and then to the center of
an antenna and sent the drone out to a 3d coordinate in the path?

I dont know alot about drone capabilities, thus far ive refused to fly ours
cause i dont have the permission slip from uncle sam yet. Im guessing that
the gps isnt accurate enough to get a good stringline with a drones limited
cargo capacity for pulling a very long line taut.

-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

If youre not using it, and you use it, you did something very wrong
I prefer it off by default, you can deal with a loop remotely but not a
disabled port

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 1:16 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> If one of the ports has a loop, it will block only that port. Obviously,
> disable STP on uplinks.
>
> On Oct 25, 2016 1:08 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> But if you only have one upstream connection and you fall, it isn’t going
>> to do anything, right?
>>
>> *From:* Josh Reynolds
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 12:01 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] stp
>>
>>
>> STP is a safety net. Its not doing much unless you fall.
>>
>> On Oct 25, 2016 12:44 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>>
>>> How can STP being enabled help anything if you are not using it?
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:10 AM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] stp
>>>
>>> I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software
>>> bridges are (R?) STP by default.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it on,
 but I don't know how you're using it.

 https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html

 bp
 


 On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

 Nettonix.

 You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to
 that switch, it could help.

 On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
 wrote:

>
> just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree
> protocol was enabled.
> we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects -
> but i don't run stp anywhere
> else.  any reason to leave this on?
>
> thanks
>
>
>


>>>
>>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

[AFMUG] Cambium 650 vs AF5x/NxN

[Sam Morris]

Does Cambium have the ability (using presumably ptp650) to bind radios 
together ala the NxN to achieve > 1 Gbps throughput in the 5 GHz spectrum?

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Josh Reynolds]

If one of the ports has a loop, it will block only that port. Obviously,
disable STP on uplinks.

On Oct 25, 2016 1:08 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> But if you only have one upstream connection and you fall, it isn’t going
> to do anything, right?
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 12:01 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] stp
>
>
> STP is a safety net. Its not doing much unless you fall.
>
> On Oct 25, 2016 12:44 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
>> How can STP being enabled help anything if you are not using it?
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:10 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] stp
>>
>> I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software
>> bridges are (R?) STP by default.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it on,
>>> but I don't know how you're using it.
>>>
>>> https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>>
>>> Nettonix.
>>>
>>> You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to
>>> that switch, it could help.
>>>
>>> On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree protocol
 was enabled.
 we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects - but
 i don't run stp anywhere
 else.  any reason to leave this on?

 thanks



>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Chuck McCown]

But if you only have one upstream connection and you fall, it isn’t going to do 
anything, right?

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 12:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

STP is a safety net. Its not doing much unless you fall.


On Oct 25, 2016 12:44 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  How can STP being enabled help anything if you are not using it?

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:10 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

  I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software bridges 
are (R?) STP by default.


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it on, but 
I don't know how you're using it.

  https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html

bp


On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

  Nettonix.

  You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to 
that switch, it could help.


  On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
wrote:


just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree protocol 
was enabled.
we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects - but 
i don't run stp anywhere
else.  any reason to leave this on?

thanks

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Josh Reynolds]

STP is a safety net. Its not doing much unless you fall.

On Oct 25, 2016 12:44 PM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> How can STP being enabled help anything if you are not using it?
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:10 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] stp
>
> I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software bridges
> are (R?) STP by default.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it on,
>> but I don't know how you're using it.
>>
>> https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>
>> Nettonix.
>>
>> You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to
>> that switch, it could help.
>>
>> On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree protocol
>>> was enabled.
>>> we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects - but
>>> i don't run stp anywhere
>>> else.  any reason to leave this on?
>>>
>>> thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Chuck McCown]

How can STP being enabled help anything if you are not using it?

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software bridges are 
(R?) STP by default.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

  Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it on, but I 
don't know how you're using it.

https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html

bp


On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

Nettonix.

You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to that 
switch, it could help.


On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
wrote:


  just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree protocol 
was enabled.
  we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects - but i 
don't run stp anywhere
  else.  any reason to leave this on?

  thanks

Re: [AFMUG] SNMP Monitoring on a Windows box?

[Dennis Burgess]

Dude ☺


Dennis Burgess – Network Solution Engineer – Consultant
MikroTik Certified 
Trainer/Consultant
 – MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE

For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net
Radio Frequiency Coverages: www.towercoverage.com
Office: 314-735-0270
E-Mail: dmburg...@linktechs.net

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sam Lambie
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 3:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] SNMP Monitoring on a Windows box?

I am just getting myself acquainted with SNMP monitoring and do not yet have a 
Linux box or VM to use. Is there a decent SNMP tool that  operates on Windows? 
Preferably Free?
thanks

--
--
Sam Lambie
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank

[Ken Hohhof]

Saw this click bait, kind of amusing, find the richest person the same age as 
you:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/savingandinvesting/the-richest-person-the-same-age-as-you/ss-BBx24v1#image=2


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Seth Mattinen
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 11:33 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank

On 10/25/16 08:23, Lewis Bergman wrote:
> Yea. I don't like being part of something like that, but it is one way 
> of running a business. Not a lot of fun in my opinion but it can work.


I do what I do because I like it and the services we provide are well regarded 
by our customers. I don't try to be everything to everyone and I know I'm not 
going to become a billionaire.

Certainly the people that just have a business to flip it for a sale or run it 
into the ground while extracting cash are in it for a different reason.

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Ken Hohhof]

Yep.

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 11:45 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

Or set an AP to sm mode without changing the color code which brought down 2 
towers.

CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
> oh, i've done that.  one access point connecting to one subscriber 
> module back in the days when we used 900 mhz for everything (backhaul 
> and access points).  45 minute drive.  fun times!
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
> *To:* af@afmug.com 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 11:18 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] stp
>
> 
> http://www.dummies.com/programming/networking/cisco/spanning-tree-prot
> ocol-stp-and-portfast/
>
> BTW, you haven’t had fun until you’ve remotely created a bridge
> loop and had to drive out to unplug a cable to stop the nightmare.
>
> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 11:11 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] stp
>
> I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software
> bridges are (R?) STP by default.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince  > wrote:
>
> Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would
> leave it on, but I don't know how you're using it.
>
> https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
> Nettonix.
>
> You could always leave it on... If your access network is
> layer2 up to that switch, it could help.
>
> On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"
>  > wrote:
>
> just discovered on one of our nettronix switches
> spanning tree protocol was enabled.
>
> we've run this switch probably four months - no real
> side effects - but i don't run stp anywhere
>
> else. any reason to leave this on?
>
> thanks
>

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[George Skorup]

I guess MikroTik figured out how to hack their way into STP on the 
Atheros switch controllers. Coming in 6.38, you set up your slave ports 
like normal, then create a bridge w/ (R)STP and add the master switch 
interface as the only bridge port. We'll see if it works.


On 10/25/2016 11:10 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software 
bridges are (R?) STP by default.



Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince > wrote:


Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it
on, but I don't know how you're using it.

https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html


bp


On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:


Nettonix.

You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2
up to that switch, it could help.


On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"
> wrote:

just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning
tree protocol was enabled.
we've run this switch probably four months - no real side
effects - but i don't run stp anywhere
else.  any reason to leave this on?
thanks

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Jay Weekley]

Or set an AP to sm mode without changing the color code which brought 
down 2 towers.


CBB - Jay Fuller wrote:
oh, i've done that.  one access point connecting to one subscriber 
module back in the days when we used 900 mhz for everything (backhaul 
and access points).  45 minute drive.  fun times!


- Original Message -
*From:* Ken Hohhof 
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 11:18 AM
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] stp


http://www.dummies.com/programming/networking/cisco/spanning-tree-protocol-stp-and-portfast/

BTW, you haven’t had fun until you’ve remotely created a bridge
loop and had to drive out to unplug a cable to stop the nightmare.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 11:11 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] stp

I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software
bridges are (R?) STP by default.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince > wrote:

Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would
leave it on, but I don't know how you're using it.

https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html

bp



On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

Nettonix.

You could always leave it on... If your access network is
layer2 up to that switch, it could help.

On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"
> wrote:

just discovered on one of our nettronix switches
spanning tree protocol was enabled.

we've run this switch probably four months - no real
side effects - but i don't run stp anywhere

else. any reason to leave this on?

thanks

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

oh, i've done that.  one access point connecting to one subscriber module back 
in the days when we used 900 mhz for everything (backhaul and access points).  
45 minute drive.  fun times!

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Hohhof 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 11:18 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp


  
http://www.dummies.com/programming/networking/cisco/spanning-tree-protocol-stp-and-portfast/

   

  BTW, you haven’t had fun until you’ve remotely created a bridge loop and had 
to drive out to unplug a cable to stop the nightmare.

   

   

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
  Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 11:11 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

   

  I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software bridges 
are (R?) STP by default.




   

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

   

  On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it on, but 
I don't know how you're using it.

  https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html

bp On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

  Nettonix.

  You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to 
that switch, it could help.

   

  On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
wrote:

 

just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree protocol 
was enabled.

we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects - but 
i don't run stp anywhere

else.  any reason to leave this on?

 

thanks

 

 

 

   

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Ken Hohhof]

I don’t think it’s a trend.  Traditionally STP was on by default.  If you know 
what you’re doing, you can turn it off.  If you don’t know what you’re doing, 
it’s probably best to have it on.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 11:18 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

 

Why is there a trend toward this being enabled by default? was there an RFC or 
something, or is it a just cause they can type of thing

 

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 11:10 AM, Josh Luthman  > wrote:

I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software bridges are 
(R?) STP by default.




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340  
Direct: 937-552-2343  
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince  > wrote:

Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it on, but I 
don't know how you're using it.

https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html

bp

 

On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

Nettonix.

You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to that 
switch, it could help.

 

On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  > wrote:

 

just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree protocol was 
enabled.

we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects - but i don't 
run stp anywhere

else.  any reason to leave this on?

 

thanks

 

 

 

 





 

-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

ahh - well then

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Luthman 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 11:10 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp


  I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software bridges 
are (R?) STP by default.




  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it on, but 
I don't know how you're using it.

  https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html

bp


On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

  Nettonix.

  You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to 
that switch, it could help.



  On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
wrote:


just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree protocol 
was enabled.
we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects - but 
i don't run stp anywhere
else.  any reason to leave this on?

thanks

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Gino Villarini]

When are we going to see mstp

From: Af > on behalf of Ken 
Hohhof >
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com" 
>
Date: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 at 12:24 PM
To: "af@afmug.com" >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

I don’t think it’s a trend.  Traditionally STP was on by default.  If you know 
what you’re doing, you can turn it off.  If you don’t know what you’re doing, 
it’s probably best to have it on.


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 11:18 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

Why is there a trend toward this being enabled by default? was there an RFC or 
something, or is it a just cause they can type of thing




Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 11:10 AM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software bridges are 
(R?) STP by default.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince 
> wrote:

Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it on, but I 
don't know how you're using it.

https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html

bp




On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

Nettonix.

You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to that 
switch, it could help.

On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:

just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree protocol was 
enabled.
we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects - but i don't 
run stp anywhere
else.  any reason to leave this on?

thanks







--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank

[Seth Mattinen]

On 10/25/16 08:23, Lewis Bergman wrote:

Yea. I don't like being part of something like that, but it is one way
of running a business. Not a lot of fun in my opinion but it can work.



I do what I do because I like it and the services we provide are well 
regarded by our customers. I don't try to be everything to everyone and 
I know I'm not going to become a billionaire.


Certainly the people that just have a business to flip it for a sale or 
run it into the ground while extracting cash are in it for a different 
reason.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Josh Reynolds]

Switches are layer2 devices. Most layer2 connections in traditional network
design are access layer. Access layer is the most likely place for loops to
occur.

On Oct 25, 2016 11:18 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
wrote:

> Why is there a trend toward this being enabled by default? was there an
> RFC or something, or is it a just cause they can type of thing
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 11:10 AM, Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>
>> I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software
>> bridges are (R?) STP by default.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it on,
>>> but I don't know how you're using it.
>>>
>>> https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>>
>>> Nettonix.
>>>
>>> You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to
>>> that switch, it could help.
>>>
>>> On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree protocol
 was enabled.
 we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects - but
 i don't run stp anywhere
 else.  any reason to leave this on?

 thanks



>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Josh Reynolds]

Lol good catch :)

On Oct 25, 2016 11:07 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:

> Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it on, but
> I don't know how you're using it.
>
> https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
> Nettonix.
>
> You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to
> that switch, it could help.
>
> On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree protocol
>> was enabled.
>> we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects - but i
>> don't run stp anywhere
>> else.  any reason to leave this on?
>>
>> thanks
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Ken Hohhof]

http://www.dummies.com/programming/networking/cisco/spanning-tree-protocol-stp-and-portfast/

 

BTW, you haven’t had fun until you’ve remotely created a bridge loop and had to 
drive out to unplug a cable to stop the nightmare.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 11:11 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp

 

I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software bridges are 
(R?) STP by default.




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince  > wrote:

Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it on, but I 
don't know how you're using it.

https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html

bp

 

On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:

Nettonix.

You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to that 
switch, it could help.

 

On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  > wrote:

 

just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree protocol was 
enabled.

we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects - but i don't 
run stp anywhere

else.  any reason to leave this on?

 

thanks

 

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Why is there a trend toward this being enabled by default? was there an RFC
or something, or is it a just cause they can type of thing

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 11:10 AM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software bridges
> are (R?) STP by default.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it on,
>> but I don't know how you're using it.
>>
>> https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>>
>> Nettonix.
>>
>> You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to
>> that switch, it could help.
>>
>> On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree protocol
>>> was enabled.
>>> we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects - but
>>> i don't run stp anywhere
>>> else.  any reason to leave this on?
>>>
>>> thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Josh Luthman]

I just learned the other day thanks to Steve the Mikrotik software bridges
are (R?) STP by default.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:07 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:

> Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it on, but
> I don't know how you're using it.
>
> https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:
>
> Nettonix.
>
> You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to
> that switch, it could help.
>
> On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree protocol
>> was enabled.
>> we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects - but i
>> don't run stp anywhere
>> else.  any reason to leave this on?
>>
>> thanks
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

The 820C (and IP20C) have two 820S (IP20S) radios in one case.

Jeff Broadwick
ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@converge-tech.com

> On Oct 25, 2016, at 11:50 AM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> I'm not familiar with Ceregons in general. If that's the case, I will shut my 
> pie hole.
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
>> On 10/25/2016 8:44 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> If it’s an 820C, isn’t that dual core, meaning 2 radios in one unit, no 
>> separate combiner needed?
>>  
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:27 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer
>>  
>> Are the two radios mounted through an OMT or such? Did they happen to switch 
>> which one is V and which one is H?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>>  
>> On 10/24/2016 8:06 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
>> Well, worst case scenario someone along the way f’ed up the hardware and I 
>> would need the same installer(s) to know enough to tell me I need a new part 
>> or whatever.
>>  
>> They did take apart the mount and maybe even the antenna from the radio in 
>> order to shift it to left or right hand mount.
>> So there is a possibility something happened when they did that.
>>  
>> This link WAS working from the same mountain tower to a slightly different 
>> location about the same distance just on one polarity for over a year.
>> Because of licensing, I had to have the radio pair removed, and moved to 
>> opposite locations, with some storage in between time etc.
>>  
>> I’m going to be super pissed if something happened physically to the radios 
>> or dishes.
>> But at the moment everyone working on it so far is too stupid (including 
>> myself) to know the difference between config/aim and hardware issue.
>>  
>> I’ll still pay to have someone competent tell me that everything is all good 
>> except that I need a part fixed, IF they can discern that with confidence.
>>  
>>  
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 9:00 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer
>>  
>> Misalignment will almost always affect both directions.  Yes, on a licensed 
>> link the 2 directions are different frequencies, but not that different.
>>  
>> What you describe sounds kind of like a bad radio, or a configuration 
>> problem.  Like xmt power set wrong on one end, or a xmt frequency out of 
>> range of the diplexer.  I’m not familiar with Ceragon ordering, but I assume 
>> they have different diplexers for different sub bands.
>>  
>>  
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 9:45 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer
>>  
>> That’s probably exactly what happened.
>>  
>> They spent hours on it and were still way off on dB on one side only.
>> That’s why I assume the other side is angled or rotated too far (dual 
>> polarity X-Pic).
>>  
>> One guy didn’t even use the volt meter, just had someone read dB from the 
>> web page.
>>  
>> They didn’t even ask for angles, degrees, nothing.
>> Just all by supposed line of sight, no scopes, and not even binoculars I 
>> think.
>>  
>> I wasn’t too happy about the whole situation, so I don’t want a repeat of 
>> that.
>>  
>> It’s less than 10 miles across Utah Lake, one end on a leg on a tower on top 
>> of a mountain, the other on a smaller tower attached to concrete wall near 
>> the freeway.
>>  
>>  
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 8:38 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer
>>  
>> Are these big dishes?  Did you not get a well defined peak during alignment? 
>>  Is the signal more than a couple dB less than predicted, like 20-30 dB low? 
>>  You’re on a sidelobe.  I’ve had experienced tower guys run into this.  They 
>> tend to be stubborn and believe they can align a dish with a 1 degree 
>> beamwidth by eye, and then they spend half an hour trying to tweak the 
>> alignment to get an extra 1 dB when they’re 20 dB off.  Once the signal 
>> starts getting worse, they go back the other way instead of continuing.  
>> Convince them to do a wide sweep, and they find the main lobe.  You have to 
>> go through the valley to find the mountain.
>>  
>>  
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett
>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 9:14 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer
>>  
>> The angle of the leg shouldn't matter...at most you'd loose ~3db but it'd 
>> have to be almost at a 45* angle for that. (Chuck did a demo at one of the 
>> animal farm events)
>>  
>> If you can get me remote access I can look at the config for ya.  They are 
>> very un-intuitive to say the least lol.
>>  
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

um, ok :)

  - Original Message - 
  From: Josh Luthman 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 11:06 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] stp


  Leaving it on could help.


  Leaving it off could hurt.




  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:04 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

Nettonix.

You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to that 
switch, it could help.



On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller"  
wrote:


  just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree protocol 
was enabled.
  we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects - but i 
don't run stp anywhere
  else.  any reason to leave this on?

  thanks

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Bill Prince]

Actually Netonix (one t, no r). I don't know that I would leave it on, 
but I don't know how you're using it.


   https://www.netonix.com/wisp-switch.html

bp


On 10/25/2016 9:04 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote:


Nettonix.

You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to 
that switch, it could help.



On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:


just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree
protocol was enabled.
we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects
- but i don't run stp anywhere
else.  any reason to leave this on?
thanks

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Josh Luthman]

Leaving it on could help.

Leaving it off could hurt.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:04 PM, Josh Reynolds 
wrote:

> Nettonix.
>
> You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to
> that switch, it could help.
>
> On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree protocol
>> was enabled.
>> we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects - but i
>> don't run stp anywhere
>> else.  any reason to leave this on?
>>
>> thanks
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

[Bill Prince]

I'm not familiar with Ceregons in general. If that's the case, I will 
shut my pie hole.



bp


On 10/25/2016 8:44 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


If it’s an 820C, isn’t that dual core, meaning 2 radios in one unit, 
no separate combiner needed?


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:27 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

Are the two radios mounted through an OMT or such? Did they happen to 
switch which one is V and which one is H?


bp


On 10/24/2016 8:06 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

Well, worst case scenario someone along the way f’ed up the
hardware and I would need the same installer(s) to know enough to
tell me I need a new part or whatever.

They did take apart the mount and maybe even the antenna from the
radio in order to shift it to left or right hand mount.

So there is a possibility something happened when they did that.

This link WAS working from the same mountain tower to a slightly
different location about the same distance just on one polarity
for over a year.

Because of licensing, I had to have the radio pair removed, and
moved to opposite locations, with some storage in between time etc.

I’m going to be super pissed if something happened physically to
the radios or dishes.

But at the moment everyone working on it so far is too stupid
(including myself) to know the difference between config/aim and
hardware issue.

I’ll still pay to have someone competent tell me that everything
is all good except that I need a part fixed, IF they can discern
that with confidence.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 9:00 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

Misalignment will almost always affect both directions.  Yes, on a
licensed link the 2 directions are different frequencies, but not
that different.

What you describe sounds kind of like a bad radio, or a
configuration problem.  Like xmt power set wrong on one end, or a
xmt frequency out of range of the diplexer.  I’m not familiar with
Ceragon ordering, but I assume they have different diplexers for
different sub bands.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sterling
Jacobson
*Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 9:45 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

That’s probably exactly what happened.

They spent hours on it and were still way off on dB on one side only.

That’s why I assume the other side is angled or rotated too far
(dual polarity X-Pic).

One guy didn’t even use the volt meter, just had someone read dB
from the web page.

They didn’t even ask for angles, degrees, nothing.

Just all by supposed line of sight, no scopes, and not even
binoculars I think.

I wasn’t too happy about the whole situation, so I don’t want a
repeat of that.

It’s less than 10 miles across Utah Lake, one end on a leg on a
tower on top of a mountain, the other on a smaller tower attached
to concrete wall near the freeway.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 8:38 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

Are these big dishes?  Did you not get a well defined peak during
alignment?  Is the signal more than a couple dB less than
predicted, like 20-30 dB low?  You’re on a sidelobe.  I’ve had
experienced tower guys run into this. They tend to be stubborn and
believe they can align a dish with a 1 degree beamwidth by eye,
and then they spend half an hour trying to tweak the alignment to
get an extra 1 dB when they’re 20 dB off.  Once the signal starts
getting worse, they go back the other way instead of continuing.
Convince them to do a wide sweep, and they find the main lobe. 
You have to go through the valley to find the mountain.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
*Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 9:14 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

The angle of the leg shouldn't matter...at most you'd loose ~3db
but it'd have to be almost at a 45* angle for that. (Chuck did a
demo at one of the animal farm events)

If you can get me remote access I can look at the config for ya. 
They are very un-intuitive to say the least lol.


-Sean



On Monday, October 24, 2016, Sterling Jacobson
> wrote:

I need to get my Ceragon link running, it's been forever.

I think someone 

Re: [AFMUG] stp

[Josh Reynolds]

Nettonix.

You could always leave it on... If your access network is layer2 up to that
switch, it could help.

On Oct 25, 2016 11:03 AM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" 
wrote:

>
> just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree protocol
> was enabled.
> we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects - but i
> don't run stp anywhere
> else.  any reason to leave this on?
>
> thanks
>
>
>

[AFMUG] stp

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

just discovered on one of our nettronix switches spanning tree protocol was 
enabled.
we've run this switch probably four months - no real side effects - but i don't 
run stp anywhere
else.  any reason to leave this on?

thanks

Re: [AFMUG] East coast Mikrotik BW test server

[Louis Arsenault]

Hope to have our 1G connection working in a couple days and would also like
to test...

-Louis

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

> Any available ?
>
>
>
> *Gino Villarini*
> President
> Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968
>
>


-- 
-Louis

NTInet
O: 803-533-1660 X 207
C: 803-997-0004

Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

[Ken Hohhof]

If it’s an 820C, isn’t that dual core, meaning 2 radios in one unit, no 
separate combiner needed?

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:27 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

 

Are the two radios mounted through an OMT or such? Did they happen to switch 
which one is V and which one is H?

 

bp

 

On 10/24/2016 8:06 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

Well, worst case scenario someone along the way f’ed up the hardware and I 
would need the same installer(s) to know enough to tell me I need a new part or 
whatever.

 

They did take apart the mount and maybe even the antenna from the radio in 
order to shift it to left or right hand mount.

So there is a possibility something happened when they did that.

 

This link WAS working from the same mountain tower to a slightly different 
location about the same distance just on one polarity for over a year.

Because of licensing, I had to have the radio pair removed, and moved to 
opposite locations, with some storage in between time etc.

 

I’m going to be super pissed if something happened physically to the radios or 
dishes.

But at the moment everyone working on it so far is too stupid (including 
myself) to know the difference between config/aim and hardware issue.

 

I’ll still pay to have someone competent tell me that everything is all good 
except that I need a part fixed, IF they can discern that with confidence.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 9:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

 

Misalignment will almost always affect both directions.  Yes, on a licensed 
link the 2 directions are different frequencies, but not that different.

 

What you describe sounds kind of like a bad radio, or a configuration problem.  
Like xmt power set wrong on one end, or a xmt frequency out of range of the 
diplexer.  I’m not familiar with Ceragon ordering, but I assume they have 
different diplexers for different sub bands.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sterling Jacobson
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 9:45 PM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

 

That’s probably exactly what happened.

 

They spent hours on it and were still way off on dB on one side only.

That’s why I assume the other side is angled or rotated too far (dual polarity 
X-Pic).

 

One guy didn’t even use the volt meter, just had someone read dB from the web 
page.

 

They didn’t even ask for angles, degrees, nothing.

Just all by supposed line of sight, no scopes, and not even binoculars I think.

 

I wasn’t too happy about the whole situation, so I don’t want a repeat of that.

 

It’s less than 10 miles across Utah Lake, one end on a leg on a tower on top of 
a mountain, the other on a smaller tower attached to concrete wall near the 
freeway.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 8:38 PM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

 

Are these big dishes?  Did you not get a well defined peak during alignment?  
Is the signal more than a couple dB less than predicted, like 20-30 dB low?  
You’re on a sidelobe.  I’ve had experienced tower guys run into this.  They 
tend to be stubborn and believe they can align a dish with a 1 degree beamwidth 
by eye, and then they spend half an hour trying to tweak the alignment to get 
an extra 1 dB when they’re 20 dB off.  Once the signal starts getting worse, 
they go back the other way instead of continuing.  Convince them to do a wide 
sweep, and they find the main lobe.  You have to go through the valley to find 
the mountain.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 9:14 PM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

 

The angle of the leg shouldn't matter...at most you'd loose ~3db but it'd have 
to be almost at a 45* angle for that. (Chuck did a demo at one of the animal 
farm events)

 

If you can get me remote access I can look at the config for ya.  They are very 
un-intuitive to say the least lol.

 

-Sean



On Monday, October 24, 2016, Sterling Jacobson  > wrote:

I need to get my Ceragon link running, it's been forever.

I think someone on this list had offered me their service local to Utah for 
this.
I am paying for this, either by Job or by hour.

If you remember offering, and it's you, or you think you would like to help, 
then let me know.

I've got the link installed on both sides and configured, just something not 
lined up or configured correctly.

The local guys I used originally earlier this year couldn't figure it out.
And I think the 

Re: [AFMUG] AF-5U vs. AF-5x

[Rory Conaway]

One of the features on the Mimosa B5’s and B5c’s is the ability to look ahead 
and reserve a DFS frequency so that if it has to change, there is no downtime.  
We are replacing one of our links right now because of that.

Rory

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 7:29 AM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AF-5U vs. AF-5x

I think it all depends on the link. We have some links/APs on DFS channels that 
have been running for years without any DFS hits, and others that are pretty 
much unusable.

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 9:18 AM, Kurt Fankhauser 
> wrote:
Well on AF5X I had way to may false radar hits to the point where I would 
absolutely avoid putting nay backhaul on DFS freqs. Not all of my towers have 
redundant links. I

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Ken Hohhof 
> wrote:
Exactly.  I don’t consider a minute of downtime acceptable on a backhaul, 
especially if you have no control over when or how often it happens.  Also it’s 
long enough to trigger OSPF to reroute traffic.

Customer expectations about the Internet have changed, the phone may already be 
ringing before the AP has finished scanning and the SMs have reregistered on 
the new frequency.  Their phone calls drop, their video pauses, they get kicked 
out of games, their VPN session to work drops.


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 9:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AF-5U vs. AF-5x

There's still the LBT timer.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Kurt Fankhauser" 
>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 9:03:35 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AF-5U vs. AF-5x
With the PMP450 you can select up to 2 alternative frequencies for the radio to 
go to if it gets a DFS hit. Very rarely would all 3 frequencies get hits and 
cause the AP to go down.

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Mike Hammett 
> wrote:
DFS is great for PtP because if it goes down, you have another one on another 
path. Not so with PtMP.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Ken Hohhof" >
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 9:14:47 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AF-5U vs. AF-5x
I think PTP links are narrow beams and carefully engineered.  On the other hand 
some PTP radios allow auto frequency change.

I would be very cautious about using those frequencies and make sure the path 
isn’t inline with any TDWR sites no matter the distance.  For that matter, I 
really don’t like the idea of using DFS frequencies for PTP links, can you 
really afford the downtime for a false radar detect?  Do you not have lower 5 
GHz non-DFS frequencies available to use instead?

Re: [AFMUG] Shark Tank

[Lewis Bergman]

Yea. I am shocked by how many personality problems he runs in to. I don't
have the patience for that crap. But I am amazed at how many he can make
work. At some point you would think that some of those owners would be able
to look at a position and think "8 people in 12 months...maybe it is me or
the position". Maybe introspection is a skill not often developed.

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:04 AM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Marcus really takes on some stinkers.  I love the show but really groan on
> a frequent basis.
>
> *From:* Travis Johnson
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 8:10 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Shark Tank
>
> Hey...
>
> You are correct... there are much better, faster growing investments than
> a fiber company or WISP. Even if you factor in businesses that don't make
> it (I've had two of those in the last two years, costing me about
> $120,000). However, with the Ecoflower company I am currently at a 100x ROI
> in just two years (on paper)... but I have gotten 3x my cash investment
> back already via dividends.
>
> Even Marcus on The Profit says the same thing... he makes enough on the
> companies that do work out to cover the ones that are losers. His actual
> success rate is something like 10% of his investments.
>
> The best way to play the WISP/Fiber game is cash flow... take as much out
> of the business as you can, still providing enough to grow and install new
> customers. :)
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 10/24/2016 9:27 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
>
>
>
> If this guy/company invests in WISPs, has anyone here actually received
> any money/funds from them?
>
> Until that happens it’s just a load of crap.
>
>
>
> I’ve talked to a good number of investors for our fiber company this year.
>
> It boils down to the same few items every time:
>
>
>
> They can’t afford it.
>
> They can afford it, but are (supposedly) making tons more interest
> flipping real estate in a lot less than the 3-5 years payback that I am
> offering.
>
> And the last, they just plain don’t want to because they are investing in
> 20-30 smaller companies, all of which will die and leave them with nothing
> except that ONE that will gain them 40B.
>
>
>
> Every single person or group I have talked to about investing in Fiber has
> been very very positive about what I am doing and my numbers and model.
>
> But it just isn’t attractive enough or pays out enough fast enough to make
> them move in this economic climate.
>
>
>
> My top three hopefuls at the moment are three groups/companies that are
> already doing fiber or fiber related industries.
>
> They ‘get’ it, and are comfortable with the slower rate of return and
> partnership terms.
>
>
>
> Generally speaking, the ISP model is considered a utility now, and it’s
> not as sexy as I like to think it is, lol!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 9:12 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank
>
>
>
> Yup.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, October 24, 2016 9:23:58 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank
>
> That Leonidas guy?
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 9:06 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank
>
>
>
> I've gotten several emails the past couple weeks from someone about
> putting money in WISPs. I've been ignoring them so far, assuming they were
> scams.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Jeff Broadwick - Lists" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, October 

Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

[Bill Prince]

Are the two radios mounted through an OMT or such? Did they happen to 
switch which one is V and which one is H?



bp


On 10/24/2016 8:06 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:


Well, worst case scenario someone along the way f’ed up the hardware 
and I would need the same installer(s) to know enough to tell me I 
need a new part or whatever.


They did take apart the mount and maybe even the antenna from the 
radio in order to shift it to left or right hand mount.


So there is a possibility something happened when they did that.

This link WAS working from the same mountain tower to a slightly 
different location about the same distance just on one polarity for 
over a year.


Because of licensing, I had to have the radio pair removed, and moved 
to opposite locations, with some storage in between time etc.


I’m going to be super pissed if something happened physically to the 
radios or dishes.


But at the moment everyone working on it so far is too stupid 
(including myself) to know the difference between config/aim and 
hardware issue.


I’ll still pay to have someone competent tell me that everything is 
all good except that I need a part fixed, IF they can discern that 
with confidence.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 9:00 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

Misalignment will almost always affect both directions.  Yes, on a 
licensed link the 2 directions are different frequencies, but not that 
different.


What you describe sounds kind of like a bad radio, or a configuration 
problem.  Like xmt power set wrong on one end, or a xmt frequency out 
of range of the diplexer.  I’m not familiar with Ceragon ordering, but 
I assume they have different diplexers for different sub bands.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sterling Jacobson
*Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 9:45 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

That’s probably exactly what happened.

They spent hours on it and were still way off on dB on one side only.

That’s why I assume the other side is angled or rotated too far (dual 
polarity X-Pic).


One guy didn’t even use the volt meter, just had someone read dB from 
the web page.


They didn’t even ask for angles, degrees, nothing.

Just all by supposed line of sight, no scopes, and not even binoculars 
I think.


I wasn’t too happy about the whole situation, so I don’t want a repeat 
of that.


It’s less than 10 miles across Utah Lake, one end on a leg on a tower 
on top of a mountain, the other on a smaller tower attached to 
concrete wall near the freeway.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 8:38 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

Are these big dishes?  Did you not get a well defined peak during 
alignment?  Is the signal more than a couple dB less than predicted, 
like 20-30 dB low?  You’re on a sidelobe. I’ve had experienced tower 
guys run into this.  They tend to be stubborn and believe they can 
align a dish with a 1 degree beamwidth by eye, and then they spend 
half an hour trying to tweak the alignment to get an extra 1 dB when 
they’re 20 dB off.  Once the signal starts getting worse, they go back 
the other way instead of continuing.  Convince them to do a wide 
sweep, and they find the main lobe.  You have to go through the valley 
to find the mountain.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
*Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 9:14 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

The angle of the leg shouldn't matter...at most you'd loose ~3db but 
it'd have to be almost at a 45* angle for that. (Chuck did a demo at 
one of the animal farm events)


If you can get me remote access I can look at the config for ya.  They 
are very un-intuitive to say the least lol.


-Sean



On Monday, October 24, 2016, Sterling Jacobson > wrote:


I need to get my Ceragon link running, it's been forever.

I think someone on this list had offered me their service local to
Utah for this.
I am paying for this, either by Job or by hour.

If you remember offering, and it's you, or you think you would
like to help, then let me know.

I've got the link installed on both sides and configured, just
something not lined up or configured correctly.

The local guys I used originally earlier this year couldn't figure
it out.
And I think the mountain side link is not mounted true and needs a
proper mounting on the leg, or hardware to mount it true, not on
the leg at an angle.

[AFMUG] East coast Mikrotik BW test server

[Gino Villarini]

Any available ?



Gino Villarini


President
Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, Puerto Rico 00968

[cid:aeronet-logo_310cfc3e-6691-4f69-bd49-b37b834b9238.png]

Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

[Bill Prince]

With a 2+0 radio(s), what works on one polarity should be identical (or 
close to it) on the other. When we've done this, we align the V or the H 
(take your choice), then go back and check the other polarity to make 
sure we're all set.


bp


On 10/24/2016 8:01 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:


Yes, I feel that man, I feel that.

I don’t know exactly why, I checked the settings and they appeared 
correct, but the Ceragons are really horrid on the their install 
instructions and web page.


However, one of our techs got one of the real Ceragon techs on the 
phone and should have worked through the whole configuration with them.


I’m not 100 percent sure that they are configured correctly for 
alignment though.


That’s why I would prefer someone who had done these before and knew 
the config and steps required for actual alignment and final lock in 
on BOTH polarities.


My problem was all techs involved, and myself, had never touched or 
aimed a dual polarity radio I think.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *George Skorup
*Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 8:56 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

We just did two 11+ mile links on HP3-11's. And the guys ended up 
about 20dB from target RSL on both of them. I said you're stuck on 
side lobes, try again. They were all like, well, how are we supposed 
to aim these things if it's hazy and we can't see the other end? I 
promptly and semi violently explained that you get behind the 
motherf***er and eye it up with that house/tree/whatever a 1/2 mile 
away that I told you was in the center. And then you peak it out with 
the volt meter. This shit ain't rocket science. No, instead you were 
10 degrees off of where I told you. Sometimes you can't fix derp.


In your case though, why way off on one side? Sounds more like Tx 
power setting. Maybe ATPC is on and misconfigured? I did that on a 
Trango once. Confused the hell out of me for a few minutes until I saw 
what I did.. or didn't do (set power per mod in the ATPC setup).


On 10/24/2016 9:45 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

That’s probably exactly what happened.

They spent hours on it and were still way off on dB on one side only.

That’s why I assume the other side is angled or rotated too far
(dual polarity X-Pic).

One guy didn’t even use the volt meter, just had someone read dB
from the web page.

They didn’t even ask for angles, degrees, nothing.

Just all by supposed line of sight, no scopes, and not even
binoculars I think.

I wasn’t too happy about the whole situation, so I don’t want a
repeat of that.

It’s less than 10 miles across Utah Lake, one end on a leg on a
tower on top of a mountain, the other on a smaller tower attached
to concrete wall near the freeway.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 8:38 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

Are these big dishes?  Did you not get a well defined peak during
alignment?  Is the signal more than a couple dB less than
predicted, like 20-30 dB low?  You’re on a sidelobe.  I’ve had
experienced tower guys run into this. They tend to be stubborn and
believe they can align a dish with a 1 degree beamwidth by eye,
and then they spend half an hour trying to tweak the alignment to
get an extra 1 dB when they’re 20 dB off.  Once the signal starts
getting worse, they go back the other way instead of continuing.
Convince them to do a wide sweep, and they find the main lobe. 
You have to go through the valley to find the mountain.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
*Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 9:14 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] UT Local Ceragon Installer

The angle of the leg shouldn't matter...at most you'd loose ~3db
but it'd have to be almost at a 45* angle for that. (Chuck did a
demo at one of the animal farm events)

If you can get me remote access I can look at the config for ya. 
They are very un-intuitive to say the least lol.


-Sean



On Monday, October 24, 2016, Sterling Jacobson
> wrote:

I need to get my Ceragon link running, it's been forever.

I think someone on this list had offered me their service
local to Utah for this.
I am paying for this, either by Job or by hour.

If you remember offering, and it's you, or you think you would
like to help, then let me know.

I've got the link installed on both sides and configured, just
something not lined up or configured correctly.

The local guys I used originally earlier this year couldn't
figure it out.
And I think the mountain side link 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank

[Lewis Bergman]

Yea. I don't like being part of something like that, but it is one way of
running a business. Not a lot of fun in my opinion but it can work.

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 9:53 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> “cut cost to the bone … suck cash out”
>
>
>
> That explains a lot.  And unfortunately it is a successful strategy, at
> least in the short term.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 9:29 AM
>
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank
>
>
>
> There are a few real VC's that are either active or seriously looking into
> the WISP market.
>
> But honestly, there is a ton of money out there right now looking for
> small to midsize business opportunities right now. Money in the bank is
> worthless and the stock market is still volatile and that doesn't leave a
> lot to pour capital into. The last five years have seen property soak up a
> bunch of that. Now it is less of a bargain so small to mid size businesses
> are the latest deal. Many of them don't want to take over. They want to cut
> cost to the bone, continue operations, and suck cash out. Much like Travis
> said but from a pure investment perspective.
>
> If you don't mind running something like that it could be worth
> considering.
>
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 10:11 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> Yup.
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, October 24, 2016 9:23:58 PM
>
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank
>
> That Leonidas guy?
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
>
>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 9:06 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank
>
>
>
> I've gotten several emails the past couple weeks from someone about
> putting money in WISPs. I've been ignoring them so far, assuming they were
> scams.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Jeff Broadwick - Lists" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, October 24, 2016 6:17:16 PM
>
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank
>
> I know of an investment group looking specifically to invest in WISPs.
>
> Jeff Broadwick
>
> ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
>
> 312-205-2519 <(312)%20205-2519> Office
>
> 574-220-7826 <(574)%20220-7826> Cell
>
> jbroadw...@converge-tech.com
>
>
> On Oct 24, 2016, at 6:51 PM, Paul Stewart  wrote:
>
> I’ve heard that… hence my opinion that there are much better ways to get
> money if that’s the only motive for doing it….
>
>
>
> I participated a couple of times in some nearby “angel investor” groups a
> few years back …. was looking for new ideas/investments - it was quite
> simple for those pitching ideas… no strings attached and if someone liked
> your idea then you went aside in private and discussed more details.  if
> not, then at least some of the folks had a chance to pitch ideas….
>
>
>
> On Oct 24, 2016, at 6:48 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>
>
>
> It was one of her personal goals to get on Shark Tank, even before I got
> involved in the business.
>
> I can tell you now, after just getting the actual "deal" paperwork today
> (she filmed months ago), this is the absolute worst deal I have ever seen
> for a small business owner. Royalties, commissions, options to buy equity
> up to 3 years into the future, etc. :(
>
> Travis
>
> On 10/24/2016 2:02 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>
> So it doesn't sound like she needs money since she has you. Going in for
> the publicity?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 2:15 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
> ha funny guy
>
>
> Jaime 

Re: [AFMUG] Shark Tank

[Chuck McCown]

Marcus really takes on some stinkers.  I love the show but really groan on a 
frequent basis.  

From: Travis Johnson 
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 8:10 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Shark Tank

Hey...

You are correct... there are much better, faster growing investments than a 
fiber company or WISP. Even if you factor in businesses that don't make it 
(I've had two of those in the last two years, costing me about $120,000). 
However, with the Ecoflower company I am currently at a 100x ROI in just two 
years (on paper)... but I have gotten 3x my cash investment back already via 
dividends.

Even Marcus on The Profit says the same thing... he makes enough on the 
companies that do work out to cover the ones that are losers. His actual 
success rate is something like 10% of his investments.

The best way to play the WISP/Fiber game is cash flow... take as much out of 
the business as you can, still providing enough to grow and install new 
customers. :)

Travis



On 10/24/2016 9:27 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:

   

  If this guy/company invests in WISPs, has anyone here actually received any 
money/funds from them?

  Until that happens it’s just a load of crap.

   

  I’ve talked to a good number of investors for our fiber company this year.

  It boils down to the same few items every time:

   

  They can’t afford it.

  They can afford it, but are (supposedly) making tons more interest flipping 
real estate in a lot less than the 3-5 years payback that I am offering.

  And the last, they just plain don’t want to because they are investing in 
20-30 smaller companies, all of which will die and leave them with nothing 
except that ONE that will gain them 40B.

   

  Every single person or group I have talked to about investing in Fiber has 
been very very positive about what I am doing and my numbers and model.

  But it just isn’t attractive enough or pays out enough fast enough to make 
them move in this economic climate.

   

  My top three hopefuls at the moment are three groups/companies that are 
already doing fiber or fiber related industries.

  They ‘get’ it, and are comfortable with the slower rate of return and 
partnership terms.

   

  Generally speaking, the ISP model is considered a utility now, and it’s not 
as sexy as I like to think it is, lol!

   

   

   

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
  Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 9:12 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank

   

  Yup.



  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Ken Hohhof" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 9:23:58 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank

  That Leonidas guy?

   

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
  Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 9:06 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank

   

  I've gotten several emails the past couple weeks from someone about putting 
money in WISPs. I've been ignoring them so far, assuming they were scams.



  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Jeff Broadwick - Lists" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 6:17:16 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank

  I know of an investment group looking specifically to invest in WISPs.

  Jeff Broadwick

  ConVergence Technologies, Inc.

  312-205-2519 Office

  574-220-7826 Cell

  jbroadw...@converge-tech.com


  On Oct 24, 2016, at 6:51 PM, Paul Stewart  wrote:

I’ve heard that… hence my opinion that there are much better ways to get 
money if that’s the only motive for doing it….

 

I participated a couple of times in some nearby “angel investor” groups a 
few years back …. was looking for new ideas/investments - it was quite simple 
for those pitching ideas… no strings attached and if someone liked your idea 
then you went aside in private and discussed more details.  if not, then at 
least some of the folks had a chance to pitch ideas….

 

 

  On Oct 24, 2016, at 6:48 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

   

  It was one of her personal goals to get on Shark Tank, even before I got 
involved in the business.

  I can tell you now, after just getting the actual "deal" paperwork today 
(she filmed months ago), this is the absolute worst deal I have ever seen for a 
small business owner. Royalties, commissions, options to buy equity up to 3 
years into the future, etc. :(

  Travis

  On 10/24/2016 2:02 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

So it doesn't sound like she needs money since she has you. Going in 
for the publicity?

 

On 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank

[Ken Hohhof]

“cut cost to the bone … suck cash out”

 

That explains a lot.  And unfortunately it is a successful strategy, at least 
in the short term.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 9:29 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank

 

There are a few real VC's that are either active or seriously looking into the 
WISP market. 

But honestly, there is a ton of money out there right now looking for small to 
midsize business opportunities right now. Money in the bank is worthless and 
the stock market is still volatile and that doesn't leave a lot to pour capital 
into. The last five years have seen property soak up a bunch of that. Now it is 
less of a bargain so small to mid size businesses are the latest deal. Many of 
them don't want to take over. They want to cut cost to the bone, continue 
operations, and suck cash out. Much like Travis said but from a pure investment 
perspective.

If you don't mind running something like that it could be worth considering.

 

On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 10:11 PM Mike Hammett  > wrote:

Yup.

 



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Ken Hohhof"  >
To: af@afmug.com  
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 9:23:58 PM


Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank

That Leonidas guy?

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com  ] On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett


Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 9:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank

 

I've gotten several emails the past couple weeks from someone about putting 
money in WISPs. I've been ignoring them so far, assuming they were scams.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Jeff Broadwick - Lists"  >
To: af@afmug.com  
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 6:17:16 PM


Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank

I know of an investment group looking specifically to invest in WISPs.

Jeff Broadwick

ConVergence Technologies, Inc.

312-205-2519   Office

574-220-7826   Cell

jbroadw...@converge-tech.com  


On Oct 24, 2016, at 6:51 PM, Paul Stewart  > wrote:

I’ve heard that… hence my opinion that there are much better ways to get money 
if that’s the only motive for doing it….

 

I participated a couple of times in some nearby “angel investor” groups a few 
years back …. was looking for new ideas/investments - it was quite simple for 
those pitching ideas… no strings attached and if someone liked your idea then 
you went aside in private and discussed more details.  if not, then at least 
some of the folks had a chance to pitch ideas….

 

On Oct 24, 2016, at 6:48 PM, Travis Johnson  
> wrote:

 

It was one of her personal goals to get on Shark Tank, even before I got 
involved in the business.

I can tell you now, after just getting the actual "deal" paperwork today (she 
filmed months ago), this is the absolute worst deal I have ever seen for a 
small business owner. Royalties, commissions, options to buy equity up to 3 
years into the future, etc. :(

Travis

On 10/24/2016 2:02 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

So it doesn't sound like she needs money since she has you. Going in for the 
publicity?

 

On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 2:15 PM Jaime Solorza  > wrote:

ha funny guy




Jaime Solorza 

Wireless Systems Architect

915-861-1390  

 

On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Chuck McCown 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank

[Lewis Bergman]

There are a few real VC's that are either active or seriously looking into
the WISP market.
But honestly, there is a ton of money out there right now looking for small
to midsize business opportunities right now. Money in the bank is worthless
and the stock market is still volatile and that doesn't leave a lot to pour
capital into. The last five years have seen property soak up a bunch of
that. Now it is less of a bargain so small to mid size businesses are the
latest deal. Many of them don't want to take over. They want to cut cost to
the bone, continue operations, and suck cash out. Much like Travis said but
from a pure investment perspective.
If you don't mind running something like that it could be worth considering.

On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 10:11 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Yup.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, October 24, 2016 9:23:58 PM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank
>
> That Leonidas guy?
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
>
>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 9:06 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank
>
>
>
> I've gotten several emails the past couple weeks from someone about
> putting money in WISPs. I've been ignoring them so far, assuming they were
> scams.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Jeff Broadwick - Lists" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, October 24, 2016 6:17:16 PM
>
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank
>
> I know of an investment group looking specifically to invest in WISPs.
>
> Jeff Broadwick
>
> ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
>
> 312-205-2519 <(312)%20205-2519> Office
>
> 574-220-7826 <(574)%20220-7826> Cell
>
> jbroadw...@converge-tech.com
>
>
> On Oct 24, 2016, at 6:51 PM, Paul Stewart  wrote:
>
> I’ve heard that… hence my opinion that there are much better ways to get
> money if that’s the only motive for doing it….
>
>
>
> I participated a couple of times in some nearby “angel investor” groups a
> few years back …. was looking for new ideas/investments - it was quite
> simple for those pitching ideas… no strings attached and if someone liked
> your idea then you went aside in private and discussed more details.  if
> not, then at least some of the folks had a chance to pitch ideas….
>
>
>
> On Oct 24, 2016, at 6:48 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>
>
>
> It was one of her personal goals to get on Shark Tank, even before I got
> involved in the business.
>
> I can tell you now, after just getting the actual "deal" paperwork today
> (she filmed months ago), this is the absolute worst deal I have ever seen
> for a small business owner. Royalties, commissions, options to buy equity
> up to 3 years into the future, etc. :(
>
> Travis
>
> On 10/24/2016 2:02 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>
> So it doesn't sound like she needs money since she has you. Going in for
> the publicity?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 2:15 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
> ha funny guy
>
>
> Jaime Solorza
>
> Wireless Systems Architect
>
> 915-861-1390 <%28915%29%20861-1390>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> But I gotta new old motorhome!
>
>
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 11:40 AM
>
> *To:* Animal Farm
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank
>
>
>
> Crystal meth show has been done Chuck... Next
>
>
>
> On Oct 24, 2016 11:37 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:
>
> I have something on the cooker.
>
>
>
> *From:* Gino Villarini
>
> *Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 11:17 AM
>
> *To:* 

Re: [AFMUG] AF-5U vs. AF-5x

[Mathew Howard]

I think it all depends on the link. We have some links/APs on DFS channels
that have been running for years without any DFS hits, and others that are
pretty much unusable.

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 9:18 AM, Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:

> Well on AF5X I had way to may false radar hits to the point where I would
> absolutely avoid putting nay backhaul on DFS freqs. Not all of my towers
> have redundant links. I
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Exactly.  I don’t consider a minute of downtime acceptable on a backhaul,
>> especially if you have no control over when or how often it happens.  Also
>> it’s long enough to trigger OSPF to reroute traffic.
>>
>>
>>
>> Customer expectations about the Internet have changed, the phone may
>> already be ringing before the AP has finished scanning and the SMs have
>> reregistered on the new frequency.  Their phone calls drop, their video
>> pauses, they get kicked out of games, their VPN session to work drops.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 9:05 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AF-5U vs. AF-5x
>>
>>
>>
>> There's still the LBT timer.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 25, 2016 9:03:35 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] AF-5U vs. AF-5x
>>
>> With the PMP450 you can select up to 2 alternative frequencies for the
>> radio to go to if it gets a DFS hit. Very rarely would all 3 frequencies
>> get hits and cause the AP to go down.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>> DFS is great for PtP because if it goes down, you have another one on
>> another path. Not so with PtMP.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Monday, October 24, 2016 9:14:47 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] AF-5U vs. AF-5x
>>
>> I think PTP links are narrow beams and carefully engineered.  On the
>> other hand some PTP radios allow auto frequency change.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would be very cautious about using those frequencies and make sure the
>> path isn’t inline with any TDWR sites no matter the distance.  For that
>> matter, I really don’t like the idea of using DFS frequencies for PTP
>> links, can you really afford the downtime for a false radar detect?  Do you
>> not have lower 5 GHz non-DFS frequencies available to use instead?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Kurt Fankhauser
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 8:57 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AF-5U vs. AF-5x
>>
>>
>>
>> I am 60 miles from closest TDWR. I just thought it was odd that the AF5X
>> allows transmit on that freq but the PMP450 AP has those frequencies greyed
>> out. I figured that Cambium would be certified for more freqs than UBNT.
>> Maybe cambium just made that choice to make those freqs unavailable.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 8:53 AM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>> As long as you're at a safe distance yes.  I'm sure you're more than 30
>> km from me for the TDWR here.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 24, 2016 8:30 AM, "Kurt Fankhauser" 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Is AF5X legal to transmit on 5600-5650mhz? Firmware 3.2.1 allows it to be
>> selected. Is that a mistake?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Josh Reynolds 

Re: [AFMUG] Shark Tank

[Lewis Bergman]

I would have to agree. I get approached once every few months. The last two
developments averaged about 50% return in 18 months and the other in almost
two years. Those were both land development deals. I haven't yet found a
business to invest in that would come close to that. Or maybe I just
overlooked one. Hard to say. I find "The Profit" much more useful as a show
depicting the things you get into investing in small business than Shark
Tank. I like Shark Tank but the viewership skews the issues they face to
scaling and not the normal issues one faces. Not that scaling is an
impossible issue, just not the hardest one.

Anyway, I congratulate you on both finding Ecoflower and recognizing it. I
am not sure that is one I would have jumped on in a big way. But then
again, I don't like the retail environment, don't understand it, and can't
make much sense of it or guess where its going.

I seem to have plenty of stupid ideas of my own to throw money at these
days anyway.

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 9:10 AM Travis Johnson  wrote:

> Hey...
>
> You are correct... there are much better, faster growing investments than
> a fiber company or WISP. Even if you factor in businesses that don't make
> it (I've had two of those in the last two years, costing me about
> $120,000). However, with the Ecoflower company I am currently at a 100x ROI
> in just two years (on paper)... but I have gotten 3x my cash investment
> back already via dividends.
>
> Even Marcus on The Profit says the same thing... he makes enough on the
> companies that do work out to cover the ones that are losers. His actual
> success rate is something like 10% of his investments.
>
> The best way to play the WISP/Fiber game is cash flow... take as much out
> of the business as you can, still providing enough to grow and install new
> customers. :)
>
>
> Travis
>
>
>
> On 10/24/2016 9:27 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
>
>
>
> If this guy/company invests in WISPs, has anyone here actually received
> any money/funds from them?
>
> Until that happens it’s just a load of crap.
>
>
>
> I’ve talked to a good number of investors for our fiber company this year.
>
> It boils down to the same few items every time:
>
>
>
> They can’t afford it.
>
> They can afford it, but are (supposedly) making tons more interest
> flipping real estate in a lot less than the 3-5 years payback that I am
> offering.
>
> And the last, they just plain don’t want to because they are investing in
> 20-30 smaller companies, all of which will die and leave them with nothing
> except that ONE that will gain them 40B.
>
>
>
> Every single person or group I have talked to about investing in Fiber has
> been very very positive about what I am doing and my numbers and model.
>
> But it just isn’t attractive enough or pays out enough fast enough to make
> them move in this economic climate.
>
>
>
> My top three hopefuls at the moment are three groups/companies that are
> already doing fiber or fiber related industries.
>
> They ‘get’ it, and are comfortable with the slower rate of return and
> partnership terms.
>
>
>
> Generally speaking, the ISP model is considered a utility now, and it’s
> not as sexy as I like to think it is, lol!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 9:12 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank
>
>
>
> Yup.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, October 24, 2016 9:23:58 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank
>
> That Leonidas guy?
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 9:06 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank
>
>
>
> I've gotten several emails the past couple weeks from someone about
> putting money in WISPs. I've been ignoring them so far, assuming they were
> scams.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 

Re: [AFMUG] AF-5U vs. AF-5x

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Well on AF5X I had way to may false radar hits to the point where I would
absolutely avoid putting nay backhaul on DFS freqs. Not all of my towers
have redundant links. I

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Exactly.  I don’t consider a minute of downtime acceptable on a backhaul,
> especially if you have no control over when or how often it happens.  Also
> it’s long enough to trigger OSPF to reroute traffic.
>
>
>
> Customer expectations about the Internet have changed, the phone may
> already be ringing before the AP has finished scanning and the SMs have
> reregistered on the new frequency.  Their phone calls drop, their video
> pauses, they get kicked out of games, their VPN session to work drops.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 9:05 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AF-5U vs. AF-5x
>
>
>
> There's still the LBT timer.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Kurt Fankhauser" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 25, 2016 9:03:35 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] AF-5U vs. AF-5x
>
> With the PMP450 you can select up to 2 alternative frequencies for the
> radio to go to if it gets a DFS hit. Very rarely would all 3 frequencies
> get hits and cause the AP to go down.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> DFS is great for PtP because if it goes down, you have another one on
> another path. Not so with PtMP.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, October 24, 2016 9:14:47 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] AF-5U vs. AF-5x
>
> I think PTP links are narrow beams and carefully engineered.  On the other
> hand some PTP radios allow auto frequency change.
>
>
>
> I would be very cautious about using those frequencies and make sure the
> path isn’t inline with any TDWR sites no matter the distance.  For that
> matter, I really don’t like the idea of using DFS frequencies for PTP
> links, can you really afford the downtime for a false radar detect?  Do you
> not have lower 5 GHz non-DFS frequencies available to use instead?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Kurt Fankhauser
> *Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 8:57 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] AF-5U vs. AF-5x
>
>
>
> I am 60 miles from closest TDWR. I just thought it was odd that the AF5X
> allows transmit on that freq but the PMP450 AP has those frequencies greyed
> out. I figured that Cambium would be certified for more freqs than UBNT.
> Maybe cambium just made that choice to make those freqs unavailable.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 8:53 AM, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> As long as you're at a safe distance yes.  I'm sure you're more than 30 km
> from me for the TDWR here.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Oct 24, 2016 8:30 AM, "Kurt Fankhauser" 
> wrote:
>
> Is AF5X legal to transmit on 5600-5650mhz? Firmware 3.2.1 allows it to be
> selected. Is that a mistake?
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
> Yeah, the U is upper band only.
>
> The AF-5 goes down to 5470 (if the datasheet is still accurate). Very good
> antennas, but limited gain. 1024QAM. GPS sync. Good radio for the money, as
> long as it works for your link distance.
>
>
>
> On Oct 24, 2016 7:14 AM, "Josh Luthman" 
> wrote:
>
> I think one or two modulations.
>
> You can't do the lower 

Re: [AFMUG] Shark Tank

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Now that Google announced their plans to do wireless instead of fiber that
probably has a lot of investors looking to get in on it early.

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:10 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

> Hey...
>
> You are correct... there are much better, faster growing investments than
> a fiber company or WISP. Even if you factor in businesses that don't make
> it (I've had two of those in the last two years, costing me about
> $120,000). However, with the Ecoflower company I am currently at a 100x ROI
> in just two years (on paper)... but I have gotten 3x my cash investment
> back already via dividends.
>
> Even Marcus on The Profit says the same thing... he makes enough on the
> companies that do work out to cover the ones that are losers. His actual
> success rate is something like 10% of his investments.
>
> The best way to play the WISP/Fiber game is cash flow... take as much out
> of the business as you can, still providing enough to grow and install new
> customers. :)
>
> Travis
>
>
>
> On 10/24/2016 9:27 PM, Sterling Jacobson wrote:
>
>
>
> If this guy/company invests in WISPs, has anyone here actually received
> any money/funds from them?
>
> Until that happens it’s just a load of crap.
>
>
>
> I’ve talked to a good number of investors for our fiber company this year.
>
> It boils down to the same few items every time:
>
>
>
> They can’t afford it.
>
> They can afford it, but are (supposedly) making tons more interest
> flipping real estate in a lot less than the 3-5 years payback that I am
> offering.
>
> And the last, they just plain don’t want to because they are investing in
> 20-30 smaller companies, all of which will die and leave them with nothing
> except that ONE that will gain them 40B.
>
>
>
> Every single person or group I have talked to about investing in Fiber has
> been very very positive about what I am doing and my numbers and model.
>
> But it just isn’t attractive enough or pays out enough fast enough to make
> them move in this economic climate.
>
>
>
> My top three hopefuls at the moment are three groups/companies that are
> already doing fiber or fiber related industries.
>
> They ‘get’ it, and are comfortable with the slower rate of return and
> partnership terms.
>
>
>
> Generally speaking, the ISP model is considered a utility now, and it’s
> not as sexy as I like to think it is, lol!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 9:12 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank
>
>
>
> Yup.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, October 24, 2016 9:23:58 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank
>
> That Leonidas guy?
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Monday, October 24, 2016 9:06 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank
>
>
>
> I've gotten several emails the past couple weeks from someone about
> putting money in WISPs. I've been ignoring them so far, assuming they were
> scams.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Jeff Broadwick - Lists" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, October 24, 2016 6:17:16 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Shark Tank
>
> I know of an investment group looking specifically to invest in WISPs.
>
> Jeff Broadwick
>
> ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
>
> 312-205-2519 Office
>
> 574-220-7826 Cell
>
> jbroadw...@converge-tech.com
>
>
> On Oct 24, 2016, at 6:51 PM, Paul Stewart  wrote:
>
> I’ve heard that… hence my opinion that there are much 

Re: [AFMUG] AF-5U vs. AF-5x

[Ken Hohhof]

Exactly.  I don’t consider a minute of downtime acceptable on a backhaul, 
especially if you have no control over when or how often it happens.  Also it’s 
long enough to trigger OSPF to reroute traffic.

 

Customer expectations about the Internet have changed, the phone may already be 
ringing before the AP has finished scanning and the SMs have reregistered on 
the new frequency.  Their phone calls drop, their video pauses, they get kicked 
out of games, their VPN session to work drops.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 9:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AF-5U vs. AF-5x

 

There's still the LBT timer.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "Kurt Fankhauser"  >
To: af@afmug.com  
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 9:03:35 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AF-5U vs. AF-5x

With the PMP450 you can select up to 2 alternative frequencies for the radio to 
go to if it gets a DFS hit. Very rarely would all 3 frequencies get hits and 
cause the AP to go down.

 

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 9:04 AM, Mike Hammett  > wrote:

DFS is great for PtP because if it goes down, you have another one on another 
path. Not so with PtMP.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions  
   
  
  
 
Midwest Internet Exchange  
   
  
 
The Brothers WISP  
   
 





  _  


From: "Ken Hohhof"  >
To: af@afmug.com  
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 9:14:47 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AF-5U vs. AF-5x

I think PTP links are narrow beams and carefully engineered.  On the other hand 
some PTP radios allow auto frequency change.

 

I would be very cautious about using those frequencies and make sure the path 
isn’t inline with any TDWR sites no matter the distance.  For that matter, I 
really don’t like the idea of using DFS frequencies for PTP links, can you 
really afford the downtime for a false radar detect?  Do you not have lower 5 
GHz non-DFS frequencies available to use instead?

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com  ] On Behalf 
Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 8:57 AM
To: af@afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] AF-5U vs. AF-5x

 

I am 60 miles from closest TDWR. I just thought it was odd that the AF5X allows 
transmit on that freq but the PMP450 AP has those frequencies greyed out. I 
figured that Cambium would be certified for more freqs than UBNT. Maybe cambium 
just made that choice to make those freqs unavailable.

 

On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 8:53 AM, Josh Luthman  > wrote:

As long as you're at a safe distance yes.  I'm sure you're more than 30 km from 
me for the TDWR here.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340  
Direct: 937-552-2343  
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Oct 24, 2016 8:30 AM, "Kurt Fankhauser"  > wrote:

Is AF5X legal to transmit on 5600-5650mhz? Firmware 3.2.1 allows it to be 
selected. Is that a mistake?

 

On Mon, Oct 24, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Josh Reynolds  > wrote:

Yeah, the U is upper band only.

The AF-5 goes down to 5470 (if the datasheet is still accurate). Very good 
antennas, but limited gain. 1024QAM. GPS sync. Good radio for the money, as 
long as it works for your link distance.

 

On Oct 24, 2016 7:14 AM, "Josh Luthman"  > wrote:

I think one or two modulations.

You can't do the lower frequencies on the U.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340  
Direct: 937-552-2343  
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Oct 24, 2016 8:05 AM,