Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Cameron Crum]

I like this dark fiber model too, but I think it's been tried, probably at
the wrong time though. I know there were several companies doing that down
here in the DFW area back in the late 90's. None left. My buddy, who worked
for one for a while ended up taking the job as IT Director for the city of
Frisco, a wealthy suburb north of Dallas. Every time they tore up a road
for any reason, he would make them put in fiber with the idea that the city
could not only serve it's own needs but generate revenue that wasn't tied
to the taxpayers. When the not so forward thinking city manager put a stop
to it, my buddy resigned. I would think that any company doing this on a
large scale would need some major funding and at least some laws to fast
track the regulatory process so they wouldn't have to fight permitting and
zoning in every municipality in the country. Unfortunately, that means
politics which generally leads to how much of the tax payer's money is
involved whether it is loans or grants or just greasing the palms of
everyone who wants a piece of the pie.



On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 5:35 PM,  wrote:

> On Wednesday, February 01, 2017 Ken Hohhof wrote:
> > How sure are you that 20 years from now, that investment will still look
> “future proof”?
>   Looking down at the fiber I put down the better part of twenty years ago
> and still use, I say, yeah, it's still good for another twenty years and
> about as future proof as anything gets.
>
> > Or will it look like 8-track tapes and CB radio and non-flying cars and
> meat made from animals?
>   Commercial products will give me 10 Tbps per fiber and the C band is
> theoretically good for at least 100 Tbps, so I think we've got scalability
> pretty well down and we aren't going to run out of bits any time soon.
>
>   Assuming there was something better out there, we'd know about it by
> now. Commercial products don't just appear from the thin ether. They take
> years of R to commercialize. At the very least we should have scientific
> papers detailing revolutionary breakthroughs in science that will lead to
> something replacing fiber in twenty years.
>
> > I remember when we were supposed to wire every house for ISDN, because
> in the future, everyone would “need” two 64 kbps bearer channels and a 16
> kbps data
> > channel and “integrated services”.
>   I think picking on ISDN is a bit myopic. ISDN turned into g.fast which
> will do a respectable gigabit over short distances.
>
>
> Jared
>

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Chuck McCown]

First fiber I was involved with was in 1990, so 27 years or so and still 
going strong.


-Original Message- 
From: fiber...@mail.com

Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 4:35 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

On Wednesday, February 01, 2017 Ken Hohhof wrote:
How sure are you that 20 years from now, that investment will still look 
“future proof”?
 Looking down at the fiber I put down the better part of twenty years ago 
and still use, I say, yeah, it's still good for another twenty years and 
about as future proof as anything gets.


Or will it look like 8-track tapes and CB radio and non-flying cars and 
meat made from animals?
 Commercial products will give me 10 Tbps per fiber and the C band is 
theoretically good for at least 100 Tbps, so I think we've got scalability 
pretty well down and we aren't going to run out of bits any time soon.


 Assuming there was something better out there, we'd know about it by now. 
Commercial products don't just appear from the thin ether. They take years 
of R to commercialize. At the very least we should have scientific papers 
detailing revolutionary breakthroughs in science that will lead to something 
replacing fiber in twenty years.


I remember when we were supposed to wire every house for ISDN, because in 
the future, everyone would “need” two 64 kbps bearer channels and a 16 
kbps data

channel and “integrated services”.
 I think picking on ISDN is a bit myopic. ISDN turned into g.fast which 
will do a respectable gigabit over short distances.



Jared 

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[fiberrun]

On Wednesday, February 01, 2017 Ken Hohhof wrote:
> How sure are you that 20 years from now, that investment will still look 
> “future proof”?  
  Looking down at the fiber I put down the better part of twenty years ago and 
still use, I say, yeah, it's still good for another twenty years and about as 
future proof as anything gets. 

> Or will it look like 8-track tapes and CB radio and non-flying cars and meat 
> made from animals?
  Commercial products will give me 10 Tbps per fiber and the C band is 
theoretically good for at least 100 Tbps, so I think we've got scalability 
pretty well down and we aren't going to run out of bits any time soon. 

  Assuming there was something better out there, we'd know about it by now. 
Commercial products don't just appear from the thin ether. They take years of 
R to commercialize. At the very least we should have scientific papers 
detailing revolutionary breakthroughs in science that will lead to something 
replacing fiber in twenty years. 
 
> I remember when we were supposed to wire every house for ISDN, because in the 
> future, everyone would “need” two 64 kbps bearer channels and a 16 kbps data 
> channel and “integrated services”.  
  I think picking on ISDN is a bit myopic. ISDN turned into g.fast which will 
do a respectable gigabit over short distances. 

 
Jared

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Chuck McCown]

I think you are right.  Perhaps they do now.

-Original Message- 
From: fiber...@mail.com

Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 4:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

Did UTOPIA sell dark fiber? I thought they only did bitstream access.

Jared


Chuck McCown wrote:

UTOPIA didn't exactly set the world on fire down here.

-Original Message- 
From: Travis Johnson

Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 3:58 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

The dark fiber loop in my city (Idaho Falls, Idaho) works extremely well
for the entire city. There are many providers, even private companies,
that lease a dark fiber pair and pay the city a monthly rate.

Travis


On 2/1/2017 3:40 PM, fiber...@mail.com wrote:
> Chuck McCown wrote:
>> Who owns the dark fiber network?
>> Government - we all know how good they are at doing things like this.
>Others manage. See for example Stokab owned by the city of Stockholm 
> in

> Sweden.
>
>> Private - so we create good old Ma Bell all over again?
>First, it does not have to be a single private company.
>
>Second, the owner being a private company need not be a problem.
> Non-discriminatory access to everybody, at set rates with prohibitions
> against cross-ownership and the offering of retail services. See 
> examples

> from other industries with wholesale infrastructure providers and
> structural separation in the telecom industry.
>
>Third, there's a pretty big difference between recreating Ma Bell and
> creating a (regional) dark fiber company that does nothing else than 
> rent

> dark fiber.
>
>> Existing carriers forced to open their networks?  OK if you like the
>> Venezuela solution to things.
>My proposal does not require existing carriers to open up their
> networks.
>
>> New networks built by low bidder defense contractor?  Great, 
>> replication

>> and tax bite too.
>Where did this come from? I said nothing about defense contractors or
> tax financing.
>
>
> Jared
>

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[fiberrun]

Did UTOPIA sell dark fiber? I thought they only did bitstream access. 

Jared

> Chuck McCown wrote:
>
> UTOPIA didn't exactly set the world on fire down here.
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: Travis Johnson
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 3:58 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
> 
> The dark fiber loop in my city (Idaho Falls, Idaho) works extremely well
> for the entire city. There are many providers, even private companies,
> that lease a dark fiber pair and pay the city a monthly rate.
> 
> Travis
> 
> 
> On 2/1/2017 3:40 PM, fiber...@mail.com wrote:
> > Chuck McCown wrote:
> >> Who owns the dark fiber network?
> >> Government - we all know how good they are at doing things like this.
> >Others manage. See for example Stokab owned by the city of Stockholm in 
> > Sweden.
> >
> >> Private - so we create good old Ma Bell all over again?
> >First, it does not have to be a single private company.
> >
> >Second, the owner being a private company need not be a problem. 
> > Non-discriminatory access to everybody, at set rates with prohibitions 
> > against cross-ownership and the offering of retail services. See examples 
> > from other industries with wholesale infrastructure providers and 
> > structural separation in the telecom industry.
> >
> >Third, there's a pretty big difference between recreating Ma Bell and 
> > creating a (regional) dark fiber company that does nothing else than rent 
> > dark fiber.
> >
> >> Existing carriers forced to open their networks?  OK if you like the 
> >> Venezuela solution to things.
> >My proposal does not require existing carriers to open up their 
> > networks.
> >
> >> New networks built by low bidder defense contractor?  Great, replication 
> >> and tax bite too.
> >Where did this come from? I said nothing about defense contractors or 
> > tax financing.
> >
> >
> > Jared
> >
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Chuck McCown]

UTOPIA didn't exactly set the world on fire down here.

-Original Message- 
From: Travis Johnson

Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 3:58 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

The dark fiber loop in my city (Idaho Falls, Idaho) works extremely well
for the entire city. There are many providers, even private companies,
that lease a dark fiber pair and pay the city a monthly rate.

Travis


On 2/1/2017 3:40 PM, fiber...@mail.com wrote:

Chuck McCown wrote:

Who owns the dark fiber network?
Government - we all know how good they are at doing things like this.
   Others manage. See for example Stokab owned by the city of Stockholm in 
Sweden.



Private - so we create good old Ma Bell all over again?

   First, it does not have to be a single private company.

   Second, the owner being a private company need not be a problem. 
Non-discriminatory access to everybody, at set rates with prohibitions 
against cross-ownership and the offering of retail services. See examples 
from other industries with wholesale infrastructure providers and 
structural separation in the telecom industry.


   Third, there's a pretty big difference between recreating Ma Bell and 
creating a (regional) dark fiber company that does nothing else than rent 
dark fiber.


Existing carriers forced to open their networks?  OK if you like the 
Venezuela solution to things.
   My proposal does not require existing carriers to open up their 
networks.


New networks built by low bidder defense contractor?  Great, replication 
and tax bite too.
   Where did this come from? I said nothing about defense contractors or 
tax financing.



Jared

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Travis Johnson]

The dark fiber loop in my city (Idaho Falls, Idaho) works extremely well 
for the entire city. There are many providers, even private companies, 
that lease a dark fiber pair and pay the city a monthly rate.


Travis


On 2/1/2017 3:40 PM, fiber...@mail.com wrote:

Chuck McCown wrote:

Who owns the dark fiber network?
Government - we all know how good they are at doing things like this.

   Others manage. See for example Stokab owned by the city of Stockholm in 
Sweden.


Private - so we create good old Ma Bell all over again?

   First, it does not have to be a single private company.

   Second, the owner being a private company need not be a problem. 
Non-discriminatory access to everybody, at set rates with prohibitions against 
cross-ownership and the offering of retail services. See examples from other 
industries with wholesale infrastructure providers and structural separation in 
the telecom industry.

   Third, there's a pretty big difference between recreating Ma Bell and 
creating a (regional) dark fiber company that does nothing else than rent dark 
fiber.


Existing carriers forced to open their networks?  OK if you like the Venezuela 
solution to things.

   My proposal does not require existing carriers to open up their networks.


New networks built by low bidder defense contractor?  Great, replication and 
tax bite too.

   Where did this come from? I said nothing about defense contractors or tax 
financing.


Jared

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Mark Radabaugh]

I don’t know that it’s a false dilemma - I mentioned it with the caveat that 
it’s probably not politically possible even if it was advisable (and I don’t 
believe it is).

The obvious model is the electric distribution deregulation that has occurred 
in a lot of states where the distribution and generation components are 
separate entities.  

Mark



> On Feb 1, 2017, at 5:22 PM, fiber...@mail.com wrote:
> 
> Mark,
> 
> I believe you have presented a false dilemma. Those are not the only options. 
> 
> The best option would be to have an open access dark fiber network with cost 
> plus pricing, averaged over the whole network. 
> 
> With this model it doesn't matter much who does the building, who does the 
> financing or for that matter even who does the owning. 
> 
> This would also keep true competition alive and flourishing on the level that 
> matters, the offering of Internet and other services. 
> 
> It is inefficient to build competing infrastructures and temporary solutions. 
> 
> Now, I don't expect the rational thing to be done, but, hey, a man can dream. 
> 
> Jared
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, February 01, 2017 Mark Radabaugh wrote:
> 
> Adam,
>  
>  
> So 2 questions for you (or anyone)…
>  
> Do you think the government should fund private companies to build fiber 
> everywhere because 10Mb won’t be sufficient for the “need”, not the “want”.   
> Do we as a country spend a lot of public money to effectively create a 
> monopoly fiber carrier in every region?   Or is it better to make sure 
> everyone has access to 10Mb and allow the free market to compete for the 
> “want”?   To me the former creates a monopoly with government money with all 
> of it’s inefficiencies  and long term harm to the consumer.The latter 
> takes longer but has a better chance of staying competitive.
>  
> The ‘monopoly last mile provider’ model is probably not going to happen in 
> the US.  While it could I don’t see any current political chance of that 
> happening.
>  
> Given the major providers as well as the wanna-be’s like Google are giving up 
> on FTTH builds in favor of fiber -> 5G builds now, why should the FCC still 
> be pushing the FTTX only model?
>  
> Given 5G is little more than hype at this point I have my doubts that the 
> model will actually work, but that’s another story.
>  
> I’m asking these questions in the WISPA FCC chair capacity because I want to 
> understand what our policy should be, keeping in mind that government funding 
> schemes are rarely friendly to small companies and often result in 
> significant harm.
>  
> As Amplex - I’m building fiber to towers, FTTH on the routes to the towers 
> and in wooded areas I can’t otherwise serve, and creating micro pops along 
> the way on the fiber routes.   Personally I think that is the winning answer 
> for the future - but that’s just me.
>  
> Mark
>   
> 
> On Feb 1, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Adam Moffett 
> <dmmoff...@gmail.com[mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com]> wrote: 
> 
> I agree with you on the need.  In my mind, nobody "needs" more than 1meg.  
> 10meg generally makes them happy and not have too fuss about how they're 
> using it (for now).  They "want" 25-100 meg for all their entertainment.
>  
> Put another way:  I might only "need" 10 amps of electrical capacity as long 
> as I'm careful about how I'm using it, but my 200 amp service makes me a 
> happy and contented consumer for the foreseeable future.
>  
> Regardless of what anyone "needs", fiber is going to end up the standard 
> delivery mechanism for data because it will meet the need of today and the 
> need of next year and the next 50 years.  If you build anything else, then in 
> the long run you'll have people still clamoring for improvement and it will 
> end up being replaced.  
>  
> There's nothing wrong with meeting the immediate need with wireless, and you 
> can absolutely make money doing it, but the long term and permanent answer is 
> going to be fiber.  So if you want to stay relevant in the future you'll be 
> looking at how to get into that game whether it's with private funding or 
> government subsidy.
>  
> This is a WISP, we're a WISPA member, and I want WISP's to succeed.but 
> facts is facts.
>  
> -Adam
>  
>  
>  
>  
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net[mailto:m...@amplex.net]>
> To: af@afmug.com[mailto:af@afmug.com]
> Sent: 2/1/2017 2:11:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
>  
> 
> Chuck,
>  
> Explain why we would have to bury fiber for that customer when the current 
> standard for ‘served’ for Internet i

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[fiberrun]

No, I wasn't referring to the cell companies. They don't do fixed broadband. 

Jared

From: "Chuck McCown wrote:

You mean like T Mobile, AT, Verizon & Sprint...

 

-Original Message-

From: fiber...@mail.com
 
It is inefficient to build competing infrastructures and temporary solutions.
 
Jared
 
 
 
 
 

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

Like the $238 "tax" on my fiber lease that runs between state lines?  per month?

  - Original Message - 
  From: Chuck McCown 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 4:19 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


  And it depends on how much of the loop is allocated to interstate vs 
intrastate etc.
  Some states have intrastate pooling some don’t.  Revenue requirements are 
made out of sausage.  Lots of bits from here and there.  

  From: Chuck McCown 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 3:17 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

  NECA long distance pooling settlements.

  Lots of components to filling out the revenue requirement.  

  From: Mike Hammett 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 3:16 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

  and the rest of it?




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 4:15:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


  Certainly that is a component of the debt service.  

  From: Mike Hammett 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 3:11 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

  How is the loan paid back? That customer's $50/month plan?




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:47:14 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


  No, that is a loan.  Just like everyone else here that needs to borrow to 
build.  

  From: Mike Hammett 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:44 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

  You got money from someone that wasn't the customer? That's a subsidy.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:15:42 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


  Got zero subsidy.  Just earning the same rate of return all the other LECs 
earn.  
  It is a cost recovery mechanism, not a subsidy.  
  It replaced the super high long distance charges of times past.  

  From: Mike Hammett 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:12 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

  Any of them getting 1/10th of the subsidy you got.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:11:57 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


  What wisp?  Show me the wisp that would do this.

  From: Mike Hammett 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:08 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

  If you plowed 20 miles of fiber for one house, you can bet your ass a WISP 
would do the same.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:38:35 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


  Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 house 
every 5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas 
like that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house.  

  From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

  If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service the 
rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money

  On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, so 
I wouldn't hold my breath.

On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

  i think that bank account may be closed very soon

  On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote:

Lipstick on a pig. 

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[fiberrun]

Chuck McCown wrote:
> Who owns the dark fiber network?
> Government - we all know how good they are at doing things like this.
  Others manage. See for example Stokab owned by the city of Stockholm in 
Sweden. 

> Private - so we create good old Ma Bell all over again?
  First, it does not have to be a single private company. 

  Second, the owner being a private company need not be a problem. 
Non-discriminatory access to everybody, at set rates with prohibitions against 
cross-ownership and the offering of retail services. See examples from other 
industries with wholesale infrastructure providers and structural separation in 
the telecom industry. 

  Third, there's a pretty big difference between recreating Ma Bell and 
creating a (regional) dark fiber company that does nothing else than rent dark 
fiber. 

> Existing carriers forced to open their networks?  OK if you like the 
> Venezuela solution to things. 
  My proposal does not require existing carriers to open up their networks. 

> New networks built by low bidder defense contractor?  Great, replication and 
> tax bite too. 
  Where did this come from? I said nothing about defense contractors or tax 
financing. 


Jared

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Chuck McCown]

Prior to 1996 it was 100% paid by local customer revenue and NECA long distance 
pooling.

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 3:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

And it depends on how much of the loop is allocated to interstate vs intrastate 
etc.
Some states have intrastate pooling some don’t.  Revenue requirements are made 
out of sausage.  Lots of bits from here and there.  

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 3:17 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

NECA long distance pooling settlements.

Lots of components to filling out the revenue requirement.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 3:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

and the rest of it?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 4:15:25 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


Certainly that is a component of the debt service.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 3:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

How is the loan paid back? That customer's $50/month plan?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:47:14 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


No, that is a loan.  Just like everyone else here that needs to borrow to 
build.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

You got money from someone that wasn't the customer? That's a subsidy.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:15:42 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


Got zero subsidy.  Just earning the same rate of return all the other LECs 
earn.  
It is a cost recovery mechanism, not a subsidy.  
It replaced the super high long distance charges of times past.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

Any of them getting 1/10th of the subsidy you got.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:11:57 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


What wisp?  Show me the wisp that would do this.

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

If you plowed 20 miles of fiber for one house, you can bet your ass a WISP 
would do the same.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:38:35 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 house every 
5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas like 
that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house.  

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service the 
rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

  You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, so I 
wouldn't hold my breath.

  On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

i think that bank account may be closed very soon

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote:

  Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and the 
only approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to orange 
trash bags.   Except when those are out of stock. 

  Centurylink will be back to 

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Chuck McCown]

They didn’t get any pork, nor did Comcast.  

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 3:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

You mean like T Mobile, AT, Verizon & Sprint...
-Original Message- 
From: fiber...@mail.com 

It is inefficient to build competing infrastructures and temporary solutions. 

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Chuck McCown]

You mean like T Mobile, AT, Verizon & Sprint...
-Original Message- 
From: fiber...@mail.com 

It is inefficient to build competing infrastructures and temporary solutions. 

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Chuck McCown]

Who owns the dark fiber network?
  Government - we all know how good they are at doing things like this.
  Private - so we create good old Ma Bell all over again?
  Existing carriers forced to open their networks?  OK if you like the 
Venezuela solution to things.  
  New networks built by low bidder defense contractor?  Great, replication and 
tax bite too.  

?


-Original Message- 
From: fiber...@mail.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 3:22 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 

Mark,

I believe you have presented a false dilemma. Those are not the only options. 

The best option would be to have an open access dark fiber network with cost 
plus pricing, averaged over the whole network. 

With this model it doesn't matter much who does the building, who does the 
financing or for that matter even who does the owning. 

This would also keep true competition alive and flourishing on the level that 
matters, the offering of Internet and other services. 

It is inefficient to build competing infrastructures and temporary solutions. 

Now, I don't expect the rational thing to be done, but, hey, a man can dream. 

Jared




On Wednesday, February 01, 2017 Mark Radabaugh wrote:

Adam,


So 2 questions for you (or anyone)…

Do you think the government should fund private companies to build fiber 
everywhere because 10Mb won’t be sufficient for the “need”, not the “want”.   
Do we as a country spend a lot of public money to effectively create a monopoly 
fiber carrier in every region?   Or is it better to make sure everyone has 
access to 10Mb and allow the free market to compete for the “want”?   To me the 
former creates a monopoly with government money with all of it’s inefficiencies 
 and long term harm to the consumer.The latter takes longer but has a 
better chance of staying competitive.

The ‘monopoly last mile provider’ model is probably not going to happen in the 
US.  While it could I don’t see any current political chance of that happening.

Given the major providers as well as the wanna-be’s like Google are giving up 
on FTTH builds in favor of fiber -> 5G builds now, why should the FCC still be 
pushing the FTTX only model?

Given 5G is little more than hype at this point I have my doubts that the model 
will actually work, but that’s another story.

I’m asking these questions in the WISPA FCC chair capacity because I want to 
understand what our policy should be, keeping in mind that government funding 
schemes are rarely friendly to small companies and often result in significant 
harm.

As Amplex - I’m building fiber to towers, FTTH on the routes to the towers and 
in wooded areas I can’t otherwise serve, and creating micro pops along the way 
on the fiber routes.   Personally I think that is the winning answer for the 
future - but that’s just me.

Mark
 

On Feb 1, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Adam Moffett 
<dmmoff...@gmail.com[mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com]> wrote: 

I agree with you on the need.  In my mind, nobody "needs" more than 1meg.  
10meg generally makes them happy and not have too fuss about how they're using 
it (for now).  They "want" 25-100 meg for all their entertainment.

Put another way:  I might only "need" 10 amps of electrical capacity as long as 
I'm careful about how I'm using it, but my 200 amp service makes me a happy and 
contented consumer for the foreseeable future.

Regardless of what anyone "needs", fiber is going to end up the standard 
delivery mechanism for data because it will meet the need of today and the need 
of next year and the next 50 years.  If you build anything else, then in the 
long run you'll have people still clamoring for improvement and it will end up 
being replaced.  

There's nothing wrong with meeting the immediate need with wireless, and you 
can absolutely make money doing it, but the long term and permanent answer is 
going to be fiber.  So if you want to stay relevant in the future you'll be 
looking at how to get into that game whether it's with private funding or 
government subsidy.

This is a WISP, we're a WISPA member, and I want WISP's to succeed.but 
facts is facts.

-Adam




-- Original Message --
From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net[mailto:m...@amplex.net]>
To: af@afmug.com[mailto:af@afmug.com]
Sent: 2/1/2017 2:11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


Chuck,

Explain why we would have to bury fiber for that customer when the current 
standard for ‘served’ for Internet is 10Mbps which is easily done with 
wireless, and “Advanced Broadband” is 25/3Mb.I still think there is a very 
valid argument that 10Mbps is more than sufficient for the services that the 
government should be guaranteeing (phone, telemedicine, education).  25/3 is 
more about entertainment than anything else and I don’t see where this is a 
taxpayer obligation.   I want Broadway shows in my little town too - but

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Ken Hohhof]

They are however one of those self-funding govt bodies.  So if you request them 
to rent equipment, buy airline tickets, and book hotel rooms totaling $XYZ, 
then someone is getting fined $XYZ to pay for it.  Maybe your competitor, maybe 
you.  Probably not Mexico.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 3:39 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

 

So it's not that I have anything offensive to say about the FCC, just an 
unpopular opinion.  As federal agencies go, the FCC is relatively unoffensive 
and low budget, so if I were the supreme libertarian dictator of the universe 
(see the irony?) they would not be the first agency I would pick on. 

 

 

-- Original Message --

From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net <mailto:m...@amplex.net> >

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 

Sent: 2/1/2017 4:04:01 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

 

I’m fine with the opinions on the FCC - having dealt with them for 10 years 
there isn’t anything that I have not called them already.

 

Mark

 

 

On Feb 1, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com 
<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

I was only trying to comment on the technology and/or business investment, not 
the politics.

 

I'm a center leaning libertarian, I don't think the feds have any business 
funding much of anything.  That also means I have opinions about the FCC that 
you don't want to hear. 

 

 

 

-- Original Message --

From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net <mailto:m...@amplex.net> >

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 

Sent: 2/1/2017 3:31:55 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

 

Adam,

 

 

So 2 questions for you (or anyone)…

 

Do you think the government should fund private companies to build fiber 
everywhere because 10Mb won’t be sufficient for the “need”, not the “want”.   
Do we as a country spend a lot of public money to effectively create a monopoly 
fiber carrier in every region?   Or is it better to make sure everyone has 
access to 10Mb and allow the free market to compete for the “want”?   To me the 
former creates a monopoly with government money with all of it’s inefficiencies 
 and long term harm to the consumer.The latter takes longer but has a 
better chance of staying competitive.

 

The ‘monopoly last mile provider’ model is probably not going to happen in the 
US.  While it could I don’t see any current political chance of that happening.

 

Given the major providers as well as the wanna-be’s like Google are giving up 
on FTTH builds in favor of fiber -> 5G builds now, why should the FCC still be 
pushing the FTTX only model?

 

Given 5G is little more than hype at this point I have my doubts that the model 
will actually work, but that’s another story.

 

I’m asking these questions in the WISPA FCC chair capacity because I want to 
understand what our policy should be, keeping in mind that government funding 
schemes are rarely friendly to small companies and often result in significant 
harm.

 

As Amplex - I’m building fiber to towers, FTTH on the routes to the towers and 
in wooded areas I can’t otherwise serve, and creating micro pops along the way 
on the fiber routes.   Personally I think that is the winning answer for the 
future - but that’s just me.

 

Mark

 

 

On Feb 1, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com 
<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

I agree with you on the need.  In my mind, nobody "needs" more than 1meg.  
10meg generally makes them happy and not have too fuss about how they're using 
it (for now).  They "want" 25-100 meg for all their entertainment.

 

Put another way:  I might only "need" 10 amps of electrical capacity as long as 
I'm careful about how I'm using it, but my 200 amp service makes me a happy and 
contented consumer for the foreseeable future.

 

Regardless of what anyone "needs", fiber is going to end up the standard 
delivery mechanism for data because it will meet the need of today and the need 
of next year and the next 50 years.  If you build anything else, then in the 
long run you'll have people still clamoring for improvement and it will end up 
being replaced.  

 

There's nothing wrong with meeting the immediate need with wireless, and you 
can absolutely make money doing it, but the long term and permanent answer is 
going to be fiber.  So if you want to stay relevant in the future you'll be 
looking at how to get into that game whether it's with private funding or 
government subsidy.

 

This is a WISP, we're a WISPA member, and I want WISP's to succeed.but 
facts is facts.

 

-Adam

 

 

 

-- Original Message --

From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net <mailto:m...@amplex.net> >

To: af@afmug.

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[fiberrun]

Mark,

I believe you have presented a false dilemma. Those are not the only options. 

The best option would be to have an open access dark fiber network with cost 
plus pricing, averaged over the whole network. 

With this model it doesn't matter much who does the building, who does the 
financing or for that matter even who does the owning. 

This would also keep true competition alive and flourishing on the level that 
matters, the offering of Internet and other services. 

It is inefficient to build competing infrastructures and temporary solutions. 

Now, I don't expect the rational thing to be done, but, hey, a man can dream. 

Jared




On Wednesday, February 01, 2017 Mark Radabaugh wrote:

Adam,
 
 
So 2 questions for you (or anyone)…
 
Do you think the government should fund private companies to build fiber 
everywhere because 10Mb won’t be sufficient for the “need”, not the “want”.   
Do we as a country spend a lot of public money to effectively create a monopoly 
fiber carrier in every region?   Or is it better to make sure everyone has 
access to 10Mb and allow the free market to compete for the “want”?   To me the 
former creates a monopoly with government money with all of it’s inefficiencies 
 and long term harm to the consumer.    The latter takes longer but has a 
better chance of staying competitive.
 
The ‘monopoly last mile provider’ model is probably not going to happen in the 
US.  While it could I don’t see any current political chance of that happening.
 
Given the major providers as well as the wanna-be’s like Google are giving up 
on FTTH builds in favor of fiber -> 5G builds now, why should the FCC still be 
pushing the FTTX only model?    
 
Given 5G is little more than hype at this point I have my doubts that the model 
will actually work, but that’s another story.
 
I’m asking these questions in the WISPA FCC chair capacity because I want to 
understand what our policy should be, keeping in mind that government funding 
schemes are rarely friendly to small companies and often result in significant 
harm.
 
As Amplex - I’m building fiber to towers, FTTH on the routes to the towers and 
in wooded areas I can’t otherwise serve, and creating micro pops along the way 
on the fiber routes.   Personally I think that is the winning answer for the 
future - but that’s just me.
 
Mark
  

On Feb 1, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Adam Moffett 
<dmmoff...@gmail.com[mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com]> wrote: 

I agree with you on the need.  In my mind, nobody "needs" more than 1meg.  
10meg generally makes them happy and not have too fuss about how they're using 
it (for now).  They "want" 25-100 meg for all their entertainment.
 
Put another way:  I might only "need" 10 amps of electrical capacity as long as 
I'm careful about how I'm using it, but my 200 amp service makes me a happy and 
contented consumer for the foreseeable future.
 
Regardless of what anyone "needs", fiber is going to end up the standard 
delivery mechanism for data because it will meet the need of today and the need 
of next year and the next 50 years.  If you build anything else, then in the 
long run you'll have people still clamoring for improvement and it will end up 
being replaced.  
 
There's nothing wrong with meeting the immediate need with wireless, and you 
can absolutely make money doing it, but the long term and permanent answer is 
going to be fiber.  So if you want to stay relevant in the future you'll be 
looking at how to get into that game whether it's with private funding or 
government subsidy.
 
This is a WISP, we're a WISPA member, and I want WISP's to succeed.but 
facts is facts.
 
-Adam
 
 
 
 
-- Original Message --
From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net[mailto:m...@amplex.net]>
To: af@afmug.com[mailto:af@afmug.com]
Sent: 2/1/2017 2:11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
 

Chuck,
 
Explain why we would have to bury fiber for that customer when the current 
standard for ‘served’ for Internet is 10Mbps which is easily done with 
wireless, and “Advanced Broadband” is 25/3Mb.    I still think there is a very 
valid argument that 10Mbps is more than sufficient for the services that the 
government should be guaranteeing (phone, telemedicine, education).  25/3 is 
more about entertainment than anything else and I don’t see where this is a 
taxpayer obligation.   I want Broadway shows in my little town too - but I 
don’t expect the government to fund them.
 
The major carriers are moving away from landlines as fast as they can and are 
really looking to replace all last mile with wireless if they can make it work 
(and they think they can).  I don’t think it will be long until getting 
traditional landline service in the city is no longer an option - why would we 
still be forcing this in rural areas?
 
The other issue is the cash cow that funded USF for years (intrastate phone 
revenue) is rapidly diminishing and wi

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Chuck McCown]

And it depends on how much of the loop is allocated to interstate vs intrastate 
etc.
Some states have intrastate pooling some don’t.  Revenue requirements are made 
out of sausage.  Lots of bits from here and there.  

From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 3:17 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

NECA long distance pooling settlements.

Lots of components to filling out the revenue requirement.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 3:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

and the rest of it?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 4:15:25 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


Certainly that is a component of the debt service.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 3:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

How is the loan paid back? That customer's $50/month plan?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:47:14 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


No, that is a loan.  Just like everyone else here that needs to borrow to 
build.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

You got money from someone that wasn't the customer? That's a subsidy.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:15:42 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


Got zero subsidy.  Just earning the same rate of return all the other LECs 
earn.  
It is a cost recovery mechanism, not a subsidy.  
It replaced the super high long distance charges of times past.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

Any of them getting 1/10th of the subsidy you got.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:11:57 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


What wisp?  Show me the wisp that would do this.

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

If you plowed 20 miles of fiber for one house, you can bet your ass a WISP 
would do the same.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:38:35 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 house every 
5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas like 
that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house.  

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service the 
rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

  You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, so I 
wouldn't hold my breath.

  On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

i think that bank account may be closed very soon

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote:

  Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and the 
only approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to orange 
trash bags.   Except when those are out of stock. 

  Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need 
more support money to fix the plant.  The only question is if they do it this 
year or next.

  Mark Radabaugh
  WISPA FCC Committee Chair
  fcc_ch...@wispa

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Chuck McCown]

NECA long distance pooling settlements.

Lots of components to filling out the revenue requirement.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 3:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

and the rest of it?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 4:15:25 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


Certainly that is a component of the debt service.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 3:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

How is the loan paid back? That customer's $50/month plan?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:47:14 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


No, that is a loan.  Just like everyone else here that needs to borrow to 
build.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

You got money from someone that wasn't the customer? That's a subsidy.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:15:42 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


Got zero subsidy.  Just earning the same rate of return all the other LECs 
earn.  
It is a cost recovery mechanism, not a subsidy.  
It replaced the super high long distance charges of times past.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

Any of them getting 1/10th of the subsidy you got.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:11:57 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


What wisp?  Show me the wisp that would do this.

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

If you plowed 20 miles of fiber for one house, you can bet your ass a WISP 
would do the same.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:38:35 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 house every 
5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas like 
that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house.  

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service the 
rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

  You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, so I 
wouldn't hold my breath.

  On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

i think that bank account may be closed very soon

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote:

  Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and the 
only approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to orange 
trash bags.   Except when those are out of stock. 

  Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need 
more support money to fix the plant.  The only question is if they do it this 
year or next.

  Mark Radabaugh
  WISPA FCC Committee Chair
  fcc_ch...@wispa.org
  419-261-5996

On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP






-

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Mike Hammett]

and the rest of it? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 4:15:25 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 




Certainly that is a component of the debt service. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 3:11 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 


How is the loan paid back? That customer's $50/month plan? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:47:14 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 




No, that is a loan. Just like everyone else here that needs to borrow to build. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:44 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 


You got money from someone that wasn't the customer? That's a subsidy. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:15:42 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 




Got zero subsidy. Just earning the same rate of return all the other LECs earn. 
It is a cost recovery mechanism, not a subsidy. 
It replaced the super high long distance charges of times past. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:12 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 


Any of them getting 1/10th of the subsidy you got. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:11:57 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 




What wisp? Show me the wisp that would do this. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:08 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 


If you plowed 20 miles of fiber for one house, you can bet your ass a WISP 
would do the same. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:38:35 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 




Depends on what you call rural. I have served areas with perhaps 1 house every 
5 miles. You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas like 
that. I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house. 




From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 


If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service the 
rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money 


On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie < 
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com > wrote: 


You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, so I 
wouldn't hold my breath. 

On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm < 
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 



i think that bank account may be closed very soon 


On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh < m...@amplex.net > wrote: 





Lipstick on a pig. The copper in still rotting in the ground and the only 
approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to orange trash 
bags. Except when those are out of stock. 

Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need more 
support money to fix the plant. The only question is if they do it this year or 
next. 




Mark Radabaugh 
WISPA FCC Committee Chair 
fcc_ch...@wispa.org 
419-261-5996 






On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 



They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Darin Steffl" < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:49:50 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 


These should all be fiber fed. Any new DSLAM's with CAF funding are very likely 
fiber fed. They just can't support the bandwidth requirements with only bonded 
T1's anymore. 


On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:34 PM, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: 



One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps link to each 
line c

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Chuck McCown]

Certainly that is a component of the debt service.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 3:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

How is the loan paid back? That customer's $50/month plan?




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:47:14 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


No, that is a loan.  Just like everyone else here that needs to borrow to 
build.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

You got money from someone that wasn't the customer? That's a subsidy.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:15:42 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


Got zero subsidy.  Just earning the same rate of return all the other LECs 
earn.  
It is a cost recovery mechanism, not a subsidy.  
It replaced the super high long distance charges of times past.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

Any of them getting 1/10th of the subsidy you got.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:11:57 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


What wisp?  Show me the wisp that would do this.

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

If you plowed 20 miles of fiber for one house, you can bet your ass a WISP 
would do the same.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:38:35 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 house every 
5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas like 
that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house.  

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service the 
rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

  You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, so I 
wouldn't hold my breath.

  On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

i think that bank account may be closed very soon

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote:

  Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and the 
only approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to orange 
trash bags.   Except when those are out of stock. 

  Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need 
more support money to fix the plant.  The only question is if they do it this 
year or next.

  Mark Radabaugh
  WISPA FCC Committee Chair
  fcc_ch...@wispa.org
  419-261-5996

On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
    To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:49:50 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


These should all be fiber fed. Any new DSLAM's with CAF funding are 
very likely fiber fed. They just can't support the bandwidth requirements with 
only bonded T1's anymore. 

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:34 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> 
wrote:

  One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps 
link to each line card

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Mike Hammett]

How is the loan paid back? That customer's $50/month plan? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:47:14 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 




No, that is a loan. Just like everyone else here that needs to borrow to build. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:44 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 


You got money from someone that wasn't the customer? That's a subsidy. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:15:42 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 




Got zero subsidy. Just earning the same rate of return all the other LECs earn. 
It is a cost recovery mechanism, not a subsidy. 
It replaced the super high long distance charges of times past. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:12 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 


Any of them getting 1/10th of the subsidy you got. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:11:57 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 




What wisp? Show me the wisp that would do this. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:08 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 


If you plowed 20 miles of fiber for one house, you can bet your ass a WISP 
would do the same. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:38:35 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 




Depends on what you call rural. I have served areas with perhaps 1 house every 
5 miles. You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas like 
that. I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house. 




From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 


If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service the 
rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money 


On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie < 
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com > wrote: 


You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, so I 
wouldn't hold my breath. 

On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm < 
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 



i think that bank account may be closed very soon 


On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh < m...@amplex.net > wrote: 





Lipstick on a pig. The copper in still rotting in the ground and the only 
approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to orange trash 
bags. Except when those are out of stock. 

Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need more 
support money to fix the plant. The only question is if they do it this year or 
next. 




Mark Radabaugh 
WISPA FCC Committee Chair 
fcc_ch...@wispa.org 
419-261-5996 






On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 



They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Darin Steffl" < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:49:50 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 


These should all be fiber fed. Any new DSLAM's with CAF funding are very likely 
fiber fed. They just can't support the bandwidth requirements with only bonded 
T1's anymore. 


On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:34 PM, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: 



One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps link to each 
line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything short of at least 
a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the E7-2s I've used in 
the past though :) 




On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" < 
li...@packetflux.com > wrote: 




Out of curiosity, do you know how are they feeding these shelves? 

I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was feeding an 
entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's. 



On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl < da

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Adam Moffett]

So it's not that I have anything offensive to say about the FCC, just an 
unpopular opinion.  As federal agencies go, the FCC is relatively 
unoffensive and low budget, so if I were the supreme libertarian 
dictator of the universe (see the irony?) they would not be the first 
agency I would pick on.



-- Original Message --
From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/1/2017 4:04:01 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

I’m fine with the opinions on the FCC - having dealt with them for 10 
years there isn’t anything that I have not called them already.


Mark



On Feb 1, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

I was only trying to comment on the technology and/or business 
investment, not the politics.


I'm a center leaning libertarian, I don't think the feds have any 
business funding much of anything.  That also means I have opinions 
about the FCC that you don't want to hear.




-- Original Message --
From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/1/2017 3:31:55 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


Adam,


So 2 questions for you (or anyone)…

Do you think the government should fund private companies to build 
fiber everywhere because 10Mb won’t be sufficient for the “need”, not 
the “want”.   Do we as a country spend a lot of public money to 
effectively create a monopoly fiber carrier in every region?   Or is 
it better to make sure everyone has access to 10Mb and allow the free 
market to compete for the “want”?   To me the former creates a 
monopoly with government money with all of it’s inefficiencies  and 
long term harm to the consumer.The latter takes longer but has a 
better chance of staying competitive.


The ‘monopoly last mile provider’ model is probably not going to 
happen in the US.  While it could I don’t see any current political 
chance of that happening.


Given the major providers as well as the wanna-be’s like Google are 
giving up on FTTH builds in favor of fiber -> 5G builds now, why 
should the FCC still be pushing the FTTX only model?


Given 5G is little more than hype at this point I have my doubts that 
the model will actually work, but that’s another story.


I’m asking these questions in the WISPA FCC chair capacity because I 
want to understand what our policy should be, keeping in mind that 
government funding schemes are rarely friendly to small companies and 
often result in significant harm.


As Amplex - I’m building fiber to towers, FTTH on the routes to the 
towers and in wooded areas I can’t otherwise serve, and creating 
micro pops along the way on the fiber routes.   Personally I think 
that is the winning answer for the future - but that’s just me.


Mark


On Feb 1, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
wrote:


I agree with you on the need.  In my mind, nobody "needs" more than 
1meg.  10meg generally makes them happy and not have too fuss about 
how they're using it (for now).  They "want" 25-100 meg for all 
their entertainment.


Put another way:  I might only "need" 10 amps of electrical capacity 
as long as I'm careful about how I'm using it, but my 200 amp 
service makes me a happy and contented consumer for the foreseeable 
future.


Regardless of what anyone "needs", fiber is going to end up the 
standard delivery mechanism for data because it will meet the need 
of today and the need of next year and the next 50 years.  If you 
build anything else, then in the long run you'll have people still 
clamoring for improvement and it will end up being replaced.


There's nothing wrong with meeting the immediate need with wireless, 
and you can absolutely make money doing it, but the long term and 
permanent answer is going to be fiber.  So if you want to stay 
relevant in the future you'll be looking at how to get into that 
game whether it's with private funding or government subsidy.


This is a WISP, we're a WISPA member, and I want WISP's to 
succeed.but facts is facts.


-Adam



-- Original Message --
From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/1/2017 2:11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


Chuck,

Explain why we would have to bury fiber for that customer when the 
current standard for ‘served’ for Internet is 10Mbps which is 
easily done with wireless, and “Advanced Broadband” is 25/3Mb.I 
still think there is a very valid argument that 10Mbps is more than 
sufficient for the services that the government should be 
guaranteeing (phone, telemedicine, education).  25/3 is more about 
entertainment than anything else and I don’t see where this is a 
taxpayer obligation.   I want Broadway shows in my little town too 
- but I don’t expect the government to fund them.


The major carriers are moving away from landlines as fast as they 
can and are really looki

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Mark Radabaugh]

I’m fine with the opinions on the FCC - having dealt with them for 10 years 
there isn’t anything that I have not called them already.

Mark


> On Feb 1, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I was only trying to comment on the technology and/or business investment, 
> not the politics.
> 
> I'm a center leaning libertarian, I don't think the feds have any business 
> funding much of anything.  That also means I have opinions about the FCC that 
> you don't want to hear. 
> 
> 
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net <mailto:m...@amplex.net>>
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Sent: 2/1/2017 3:31:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
> 
>> Adam,
>> 
>> 
>> So 2 questions for you (or anyone)…
>> 
>> Do you think the government should fund private companies to build fiber 
>> everywhere because 10Mb won’t be sufficient for the “need”, not the “want”.  
>>  Do we as a country spend a lot of public money to effectively create a 
>> monopoly fiber carrier in every region?   Or is it better to make sure 
>> everyone has access to 10Mb and allow the free market to compete for the 
>> “want”?   To me the former creates a monopoly with government money with all 
>> of it’s inefficiencies  and long term harm to the consumer.The latter 
>> takes longer but has a better chance of staying competitive.
>> 
>> The ‘monopoly last mile provider’ model is probably not going to happen in 
>> the US.  While it could I don’t see any current political chance of that 
>> happening.
>> 
>> Given the major providers as well as the wanna-be’s like Google are giving 
>> up on FTTH builds in favor of fiber -> 5G builds now, why should the FCC 
>> still be pushing the FTTX only model?
>> 
>> Given 5G is little more than hype at this point I have my doubts that the 
>> model will actually work, but that’s another story.
>> 
>> I’m asking these questions in the WISPA FCC chair capacity because I want to 
>> understand what our policy should be, keeping in mind that government 
>> funding schemes are rarely friendly to small companies and often result in 
>> significant harm.
>> 
>> As Amplex - I’m building fiber to towers, FTTH on the routes to the towers 
>> and in wooded areas I can’t otherwise serve, and creating micro pops along 
>> the way on the fiber routes.   Personally I think that is the winning answer 
>> for the future - but that’s just me.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 1, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I agree with you on the need.  In my mind, nobody "needs" more than 1meg.  
>>> 10meg generally makes them happy and not have too fuss about how they're 
>>> using it (for now).  They "want" 25-100 meg for all their entertainment.
>>> 
>>> Put another way:  I might only "need" 10 amps of electrical capacity as 
>>> long as I'm careful about how I'm using it, but my 200 amp service makes me 
>>> a happy and contented consumer for the foreseeable future.
>>> 
>>> Regardless of what anyone "needs", fiber is going to end up the standard 
>>> delivery mechanism for data because it will meet the need of today and the 
>>> need of next year and the next 50 years.  If you build anything else, then 
>>> in the long run you'll have people still clamoring for improvement and it 
>>> will end up being replaced.  
>>> 
>>> There's nothing wrong with meeting the immediate need with wireless, and 
>>> you can absolutely make money doing it, but the long term and permanent 
>>> answer is going to be fiber.  So if you want to stay relevant in the future 
>>> you'll be looking at how to get into that game whether it's with private 
>>> funding or government subsidy.
>>> 
>>> This is a WISP, we're a WISPA member, and I want WISP's to succeed.but 
>>> facts is facts.
>>> 
>>> -Adam
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net <mailto:m...@amplex.net>>
>>> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>>> Sent: 2/1/2017 2:11:22 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
>>> 
>>>> Chuck,
>>>> 
>>>> Explain why we would have to bury fiber for that customer when the curren

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Adam Moffett]

I was only trying to comment on the technology and/or business 
investment, not the politics.


I'm a center leaning libertarian, I don't think the feds have any 
business funding much of anything.  That also means I have opinions 
about the FCC that you don't want to hear.




-- Original Message --
From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/1/2017 3:31:55 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


Adam,


So 2 questions for you (or anyone)…

Do you think the government should fund private companies to build 
fiber everywhere because 10Mb won’t be sufficient for the “need”, not 
the “want”.   Do we as a country spend a lot of public money to 
effectively create a monopoly fiber carrier in every region?   Or is it 
better to make sure everyone has access to 10Mb and allow the free 
market to compete for the “want”?   To me the former creates a monopoly 
with government money with all of it’s inefficiencies  and long term 
harm to the consumer.The latter takes longer but has a better 
chance of staying competitive.


The ‘monopoly last mile provider’ model is probably not going to happen 
in the US.  While it could I don’t see any current political chance of 
that happening.


Given the major providers as well as the wanna-be’s like Google are 
giving up on FTTH builds in favor of fiber -> 5G builds now, why should 
the FCC still be pushing the FTTX only model?


Given 5G is little more than hype at this point I have my doubts that 
the model will actually work, but that’s another story.


I’m asking these questions in the WISPA FCC chair capacity because I 
want to understand what our policy should be, keeping in mind that 
government funding schemes are rarely friendly to small companies and 
often result in significant harm.


As Amplex - I’m building fiber to towers, FTTH on the routes to the 
towers and in wooded areas I can’t otherwise serve, and creating micro 
pops along the way on the fiber routes.   Personally I think that is 
the winning answer for the future - but that’s just me.


Mark



On Feb 1, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

I agree with you on the need.  In my mind, nobody "needs" more than 
1meg.  10meg generally makes them happy and not have too fuss about 
how they're using it (for now).  They "want" 25-100 meg for all their 
entertainment.


Put another way:  I might only "need" 10 amps of electrical capacity 
as long as I'm careful about how I'm using it, but my 200 amp service 
makes me a happy and contented consumer for the foreseeable future.


Regardless of what anyone "needs", fiber is going to end up the 
standard delivery mechanism for data because it will meet the need of 
today and the need of next year and the next 50 years.  If you build 
anything else, then in the long run you'll have people still clamoring 
for improvement and it will end up being replaced.


There's nothing wrong with meeting the immediate need with wireless, 
and you can absolutely make money doing it, but the long term and 
permanent answer is going to be fiber.  So if you want to stay 
relevant in the future you'll be looking at how to get into that game 
whether it's with private funding or government subsidy.


This is a WISP, we're a WISPA member, and I want WISP's to 
succeed.but facts is facts.


-Adam



-- Original Message --
From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/1/2017 2:11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


Chuck,

Explain why we would have to bury fiber for that customer when the 
current standard for ‘served’ for Internet is 10Mbps which is easily 
done with wireless, and “Advanced Broadband” is 25/3Mb.I still 
think there is a very valid argument that 10Mbps is more than 
sufficient for the services that the government should be 
guaranteeing (phone, telemedicine, education).  25/3 is more about 
entertainment than anything else and I don’t see where this is a 
taxpayer obligation.   I want Broadway shows in my little town too - 
but I don’t expect the government to fund them.


The major carriers are moving away from landlines as fast as they can 
and are really looking to replace all last mile with wireless if they 
can make it work (and they think they can).  I don’t think it will be 
long until getting traditional landline service in the city is no 
longer an option - why would we still be forcing this in rural areas?


The other issue is the cash cow that funded USF for years (intrastate 
phone revenue) is rapidly diminishing and will finish it's spiral of 
death soon unless the contribution base is expanded to broadband.


Mark

Mark Radabaugh
WISPA FCC Committee Chair
fcc_ch...@wispa.org
419-261-5996


On Feb 1, 2017, at 12:38 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 
house every 

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Seth Mattinen]

On 2/1/17 12:44, Mike Hammett wrote:

You got money from someone that wasn't the customer? That's a subsidy.



RUS is a loan since it has to be paid back.

~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Chuck McCown]

No, that is a loan.  Just like everyone else here that needs to borrow to 
build.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

You got money from someone that wasn't the customer? That's a subsidy.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:15:42 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


Got zero subsidy.  Just earning the same rate of return all the other LECs 
earn.  
It is a cost recovery mechanism, not a subsidy.  
It replaced the super high long distance charges of times past.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

Any of them getting 1/10th of the subsidy you got.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:11:57 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


What wisp?  Show me the wisp that would do this.

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

If you plowed 20 miles of fiber for one house, you can bet your ass a WISP 
would do the same.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:38:35 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 house every 
5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas like 
that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house.  

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service the 
rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

  You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, so I 
wouldn't hold my breath.

  On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

i think that bank account may be closed very soon

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote:

  Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and the 
only approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to orange 
trash bags.   Except when those are out of stock. 

  Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need 
more support money to fix the plant.  The only question is if they do it this 
year or next.

  Mark Radabaugh
  WISPA FCC Committee Chair
  fcc_ch...@wispa.org
  419-261-5996

On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
    Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:49:50 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


These should all be fiber fed. Any new DSLAM's with CAF funding are 
very likely fiber fed. They just can't support the bandwidth requirements with 
only bonded T1's anymore. 

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:34 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> 
wrote:

  One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps 
link to each line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything 
short of at least a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the 
E7-2s I've used in the past though :)

  On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
<li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

Out of curiosity, do  you know how are they feeding these shelves?  
 


I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was 
feeding an entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's.   


On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl 
<darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> wrote:

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Mike Hammett]

You got money from someone that wasn't the customer? That's a subsidy. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:15:42 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 




Got zero subsidy. Just earning the same rate of return all the other LECs earn. 
It is a cost recovery mechanism, not a subsidy. 
It replaced the super high long distance charges of times past. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:12 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 


Any of them getting 1/10th of the subsidy you got. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:11:57 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 




What wisp? Show me the wisp that would do this. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:08 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 


If you plowed 20 miles of fiber for one house, you can bet your ass a WISP 
would do the same. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:38:35 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 




Depends on what you call rural. I have served areas with perhaps 1 house every 
5 miles. You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas like 
that. I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house. 




From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 


If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service the 
rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money 


On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie < 
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com > wrote: 


You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, so I 
wouldn't hold my breath. 

On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm < 
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 



i think that bank account may be closed very soon 


On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh < m...@amplex.net > wrote: 





Lipstick on a pig. The copper in still rotting in the ground and the only 
approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to orange trash 
bags. Except when those are out of stock. 

Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need more 
support money to fix the plant. The only question is if they do it this year or 
next. 




Mark Radabaugh 
WISPA FCC Committee Chair 
fcc_ch...@wispa.org 
419-261-5996 






On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 



They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Darin Steffl" < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:49:50 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 


These should all be fiber fed. Any new DSLAM's with CAF funding are very likely 
fiber fed. They just can't support the bandwidth requirements with only bonded 
T1's anymore. 


On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:34 PM, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: 



One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps link to each 
line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything short of at least 
a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the E7-2s I've used in 
the past though :) 




On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" < 
li...@packetflux.com > wrote: 




Out of curiosity, do you know how are they feeding these shelves? 

I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was feeding an 
entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's. 



On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > 
wrote: 



Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF funding from 
Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks they took 
funding for. 

If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect them to be 
able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to customers in range 
of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, they may see up to 40/1 
Mbps speeds. 




On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson < cpeter...@portnetworks.com > 
wrote: 



As someone already said, its 

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Chuck McCown]

Sterling, I would not class you as a wanna be Google, I would classify you as a 
better than Google FTTH.  

But are you giving up on FTTH in favor of 5G builds?  

Didn’t think so, me neither

From: Mark Radabaugh 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

Adam,


So 2 questions for you (or anyone)…

Do you think the government should fund private companies to build fiber 
everywhere because 10Mb won’t be sufficient for the “need”, not the “want”.   
Do we as a country spend a lot of public money to effectively create a monopoly 
fiber carrier in every region?   Or is it better to make sure everyone has 
access to 10Mb and allow the free market to compete for the “want”?   To me the 
former creates a monopoly with government money with all of it’s inefficiencies 
 and long term harm to the consumer.The latter takes longer but has a 
better chance of staying competitive.

The ‘monopoly last mile provider’ model is probably not going to happen in the 
US.  While it could I don’t see any current political chance of that happening.

Given the major providers as well as the wanna-be’s like Google are giving up 
on FTTH builds in favor of fiber -> 5G builds now, why should the FCC still be 
pushing the FTTX only model?

Given 5G is little more than hype at this point I have my doubts that the model 
will actually work, but that’s another story.

I’m asking these questions in the WISPA FCC chair capacity because I want to 
understand what our policy should be, keeping in mind that government funding 
schemes are rarely friendly to small companies and often result in significant 
harm.

As Amplex - I’m building fiber to towers, FTTH on the routes to the towers and 
in wooded areas I can’t otherwise serve, and creating micro pops along the way 
on the fiber routes.   Personally I think that is the winning answer for the 
future - but that’s just me.

Mark


  On Feb 1, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

  I agree with you on the need.  In my mind, nobody "needs" more than 1meg.  
10meg generally makes them happy and not have too fuss about how they're using 
it (for now).  They "want" 25-100 meg for all their entertainment.

  Put another way:  I might only "need" 10 amps of electrical capacity as long 
as I'm careful about how I'm using it, but my 200 amp service makes me a happy 
and contented consumer for the foreseeable future.

  Regardless of what anyone "needs", fiber is going to end up the standard 
delivery mechanism for data because it will meet the need of today and the need 
of next year and the next 50 years.  If you build anything else, then in the 
long run you'll have people still clamoring for improvement and it will end up 
being replaced.  

  There's nothing wrong with meeting the immediate need with wireless, and you 
can absolutely make money doing it, but the long term and permanent answer is 
going to be fiber.  So if you want to stay relevant in the future you'll be 
looking at how to get into that game whether it's with private funding or 
government subsidy.

  This is a WISP, we're a WISPA member, and I want WISP's to succeed.but 
facts is facts.

  -Adam



  -- Original Message --
  From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 2/1/2017 2:11:22 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

Chuck,

Explain why we would have to bury fiber for that customer when the current 
standard for ‘served’ for Internet is 10Mbps which is easily done with 
wireless, and “Advanced Broadband” is 25/3Mb.I still think there is a very 
valid argument that 10Mbps is more than sufficient for the services that the 
government should be guaranteeing (phone, telemedicine, education).  25/3 is 
more about entertainment than anything else and I don’t see where this is a 
taxpayer obligation.   I want Broadway shows in my little town too - but I 
don’t expect the government to fund them.

The major carriers are moving away from landlines as fast as they can and 
are really looking to replace all last mile with wireless if they can make it 
work (and they think they can).  I don’t think it will be long until getting 
traditional landline service in the city is no longer an option - why would we 
still be forcing this in rural areas?

The other issue is the cash cow that funded USF for years (intrastate phone 
revenue) is rapidly diminishing and will finish it's spiral of death soon 
unless the contribution base is expanded to broadband.  

Mark

Mark Radabaugh
WISPA FCC Committee Chair
fcc_ch...@wispa.org
419-261-5996

  On Feb 1, 2017, at 12:38 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 house 
every 5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas 
lik

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Mark Radabaugh]

Adam,


So 2 questions for you (or anyone)…

Do you think the government should fund private companies to build fiber 
everywhere because 10Mb won’t be sufficient for the “need”, not the “want”.   
Do we as a country spend a lot of public money to effectively create a monopoly 
fiber carrier in every region?   Or is it better to make sure everyone has 
access to 10Mb and allow the free market to compete for the “want”?   To me the 
former creates a monopoly with government money with all of it’s inefficiencies 
 and long term harm to the consumer.The latter takes longer but has a 
better chance of staying competitive.

The ‘monopoly last mile provider’ model is probably not going to happen in the 
US.  While it could I don’t see any current political chance of that happening.

Given the major providers as well as the wanna-be’s like Google are giving up 
on FTTH builds in favor of fiber -> 5G builds now, why should the FCC still be 
pushing the FTTX only model?

Given 5G is little more than hype at this point I have my doubts that the model 
will actually work, but that’s another story.

I’m asking these questions in the WISPA FCC chair capacity because I want to 
understand what our policy should be, keeping in mind that government funding 
schemes are rarely friendly to small companies and often result in significant 
harm.

As Amplex - I’m building fiber to towers, FTTH on the routes to the towers and 
in wooded areas I can’t otherwise serve, and creating micro pops along the way 
on the fiber routes.   Personally I think that is the winning answer for the 
future - but that’s just me.

Mark


> On Feb 1, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I agree with you on the need.  In my mind, nobody "needs" more than 1meg.  
> 10meg generally makes them happy and not have too fuss about how they're 
> using it (for now).  They "want" 25-100 meg for all their entertainment.
> 
> Put another way:  I might only "need" 10 amps of electrical capacity as long 
> as I'm careful about how I'm using it, but my 200 amp service makes me a 
> happy and contented consumer for the foreseeable future.
> 
> Regardless of what anyone "needs", fiber is going to end up the standard 
> delivery mechanism for data because it will meet the need of today and the 
> need of next year and the next 50 years.  If you build anything else, then in 
> the long run you'll have people still clamoring for improvement and it will 
> end up being replaced.  
> 
> There's nothing wrong with meeting the immediate need with wireless, and you 
> can absolutely make money doing it, but the long term and permanent answer is 
> going to be fiber.  So if you want to stay relevant in the future you'll be 
> looking at how to get into that game whether it's with private funding or 
> government subsidy.
> 
> This is a WISP, we're a WISPA member, and I want WISP's to succeed.but 
> facts is facts.
> 
> -Adam
> 
> 
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net <mailto:m...@amplex.net>>
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Sent: 2/1/2017 2:11:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
> 
>> Chuck,
>> 
>> Explain why we would have to bury fiber for that customer when the current 
>> standard for ‘served’ for Internet is 10Mbps which is easily done with 
>> wireless, and “Advanced Broadband” is 25/3Mb.I still think there is a 
>> very valid argument that 10Mbps is more than sufficient for the services 
>> that the government should be guaranteeing (phone, telemedicine, education). 
>>  25/3 is more about entertainment than anything else and I don’t see where 
>> this is a taxpayer obligation.   I want Broadway shows in my little town too 
>> - but I don’t expect the government to fund them.
>> 
>> The major carriers are moving away from landlines as fast as they can and 
>> are really looking to replace all last mile with wireless if they can make 
>> it work (and they think they can).  I don’t think it will be long until 
>> getting traditional landline service in the city is no longer an option - 
>> why would we still be forcing this in rural areas?
>> 
>> The other issue is the cash cow that funded USF for years (intrastate phone 
>> revenue) is rapidly diminishing and will finish it's spiral of death soon 
>> unless the contribution base is expanded to broadband.  
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> Mark Radabaugh
>> WISPA FCC Committee Chair
>> fcc_ch...@wispa.org <mailto:fcc_ch...@wispa.org>
>> 419-261-5996
>> 
>>> On Feb 1, 2017, at 12:38 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com 
>>> <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.c

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Adam Moffett]

That's a solid point.
I think ISDN could have gotten a lot more traction in the late 90's if 
it could have been priced lower, but it would be just as useless today.


It is hard to imagine a world where an ethernet strand can't provide 
enough capacity for a house, but we can't really know.



-- Original Message --
From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/1/2017 3:07:26 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

Justify plowing 20 miles of fiber to serve one house any way you want, 
you’re rationalizing.




How sure are you that 20 years from now, that investment will still 
look “future proof”?  Or will it look like 8-track tapes and CB radio 
and non-flying cars and meat made from animals?




I remember when we were supposed to wire every house for ISDN, because 
in the future, everyone would “need” two 64 kbps bearer channels and a 
16 kbps data channel and “integrated services”.  The Germans installed 
a lot of ISDN BRI and mocked us for not following their example.  This 
was 20 years ago, and the futurists all had $1000 ISDN modems in their 
houses so they could spend half an hour downloading a photo from a 
bulletin board.






From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 1:55 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these



I agree with you on the need.  In my mind, nobody "needs" more than 
1meg.  10meg generally makes them happy and not have too fuss about how 
they're using it (for now).  They "want" 25-100 meg for all their 
entertainment.




Put another way:  I might only "need" 10 amps of electrical capacity as 
long as I'm careful about how I'm using it, but my 200 amp service 
makes me a happy and contented consumer for the foreseeable future.




Regardless of what anyone "needs", fiber is going to end up the 
standard delivery mechanism for data because it will meet the need of 
today and the need of next year and the next 50 years.  If you build 
anything else, then in the long run you'll have people still clamoring 
for improvement and it will end up being replaced.




There's nothing wrong with meeting the immediate need with wireless, 
and you can absolutely make money doing it, but the long term and 
permanent answer is going to be fiber.  So if you want to stay relevant 
in the future you'll be looking at how to get into that game whether 
it's with private funding or government subsidy.




This is a WISP, we're a WISPA member, and I want WISP's to 
succeed.but facts is facts.




-Adam







-- Original Message --

From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>

To: af@afmug.com

Sent: 2/1/2017 2:11:22 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these




Chuck,



Explain why we would have to bury fiber for that customer when the 
current standard for ‘served’ for Internet is 10Mbps which is easily 
done with wireless, and “Advanced Broadband” is 25/3Mb.I still 
think there is a very valid argument that 10Mbps is more than 
sufficient for the services that the government should be guaranteeing 
(phone, telemedicine, education).  25/3 is more about entertainment 
than anything else and I don’t see where this is a taxpayer 
obligation.   I want Broadway shows in my little town too - but I 
don’t expect the government to fund them.




The major carriers are moving away from landlines as fast as they can 
and are really looking to replace all last mile with wireless if they 
can make it work (and they think they can).  I don’t think it will be 
long until getting traditional landline service in the city is no 
longer an option - why would we still be forcing this in rural areas?




The other issue is the cash cow that funded USF for years (intrastate 
phone revenue) is rapidly diminishing and will finish it's spiral of 
death soon unless the contribution base is expanded to broadband.




Mark



Mark Radabaugh

WISPA FCC Committee Chair

fcc_ch...@wispa.org

419-261-5996




On Feb 1, 2017, at 12:38 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:



Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 
house every 5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to 
build out in areas like that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one 
single house.




From: That One Guy /sarcasm

Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM

To:af@afmug.com

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these



If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively 
service the rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money




On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:



You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big 
telco, so I wouldn't hold my breath.


On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:




i think that bank account may be c

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Chuck McCown]

Rather have Dr. Strangelove.  I can recite most of it.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:17 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

Are those 4K or 8K “things”?  You might “need” something north of 100 meg.  (At 
least I recently read that 3D TV is officially dead.)

 

On the other hand, once the memory starts to go, you just need one DVD of “Ice 
Station Zebra” and it never gets old.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 1:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

 

I “need” at least 10 meg at home.  I want to stream 2-3 things at once.  

 

From: Adam Moffett 

Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 12:55 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

 

I agree with you on the need.  In my mind, nobody "needs" more than 1meg.  
10meg generally makes them happy and not have too fuss about how they're using 
it (for now).  They "want" 25-100 meg for all their entertainment.

 

Put another way:  I might only "need" 10 amps of electrical capacity as long as 
I'm careful about how I'm using it, but my 200 amp service makes me a happy and 
contented consumer for the foreseeable future.

 

Regardless of what anyone "needs", fiber is going to end up the standard 
delivery mechanism for data because it will meet the need of today and the need 
of next year and the next 50 years.  If you build anything else, then in the 
long run you'll have people still clamoring for improvement and it will end up 
being replaced.  

 

There's nothing wrong with meeting the immediate need with wireless, and you 
can absolutely make money doing it, but the long term and permanent answer is 
going to be fiber.  So if you want to stay relevant in the future you'll be 
looking at how to get into that game whether it's with private funding or 
government subsidy.

 

This is a WISP, we're a WISPA member, and I want WISP's to succeed.but 
facts is facts.

 

-Adam

 

 

 

-- Original Message --

From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>

To: af@afmug.com

Sent: 2/1/2017 2:11:22 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

 

  Chuck,

   

  Explain why we would have to bury fiber for that customer when the current 
standard for ‘served’ for Internet is 10Mbps which is easily done with 
wireless, and “Advanced Broadband” is 25/3Mb.I still think there is a very 
valid argument that 10Mbps is more than sufficient for the services that the 
government should be guaranteeing (phone, telemedicine, education).  25/3 is 
more about entertainment than anything else and I don’t see where this is a 
taxpayer obligation.   I want Broadway shows in my little town too - but I 
don’t expect the government to fund them.

   

  The major carriers are moving away from landlines as fast as they can and are 
really looking to replace all last mile with wireless if they can make it work 
(and they think they can).  I don’t think it will be long until getting 
traditional landline service in the city is no longer an option - why would we 
still be forcing this in rural areas?

   

  The other issue is the cash cow that funded USF for years (intrastate phone 
revenue) is rapidly diminishing and will finish it's spiral of death soon 
unless the contribution base is expanded to broadband.  

   

  Mark

   

  Mark Radabaugh

  WISPA FCC Committee Chair

  fcc_ch...@wispa.org

  419-261-5996

   

On Feb 1, 2017, at 12:38 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

 

Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 house 
every 5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas 
like that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house.  

 

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 

Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

 

If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service 
the rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money

 

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:



  You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, 
so I wouldn't hold my breath.

  On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:



i think that bank account may be closed very soon

 

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote:

  Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and 
the only approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to 
orange trash bags.   Except when those are out of stock. 

   

  Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need 
more suppor

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Ken Hohhof]

Are those 4K or 8K “things”?  You might “need” something north of 100 meg.  (At 
least I recently read that 3D TV is officially dead.)

 

On the other hand, once the memory starts to go, you just need one DVD of “Ice 
Station Zebra” and it never gets old.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 1:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

 

I “need” at least 10 meg at home.  I want to stream 2-3 things at once.  

 

From: Adam Moffett 

Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 12:55 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

 

I agree with you on the need.  In my mind, nobody "needs" more than 1meg.  
10meg generally makes them happy and not have too fuss about how they're using 
it (for now).  They "want" 25-100 meg for all their entertainment.

 

Put another way:  I might only "need" 10 amps of electrical capacity as long as 
I'm careful about how I'm using it, but my 200 amp service makes me a happy and 
contented consumer for the foreseeable future.

 

Regardless of what anyone "needs", fiber is going to end up the standard 
delivery mechanism for data because it will meet the need of today and the need 
of next year and the next 50 years.  If you build anything else, then in the 
long run you'll have people still clamoring for improvement and it will end up 
being replaced.  

 

There's nothing wrong with meeting the immediate need with wireless, and you 
can absolutely make money doing it, but the long term and permanent answer is 
going to be fiber.  So if you want to stay relevant in the future you'll be 
looking at how to get into that game whether it's with private funding or 
government subsidy.

 

This is a WISP, we're a WISPA member, and I want WISP's to succeed.but 
facts is facts.

 

-Adam

 

 

 

-- Original Message --

From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>

To: af@afmug.com

Sent: 2/1/2017 2:11:22 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

 

Chuck,

 

Explain why we would have to bury fiber for that customer when the current 
standard for ‘served’ for Internet is 10Mbps which is easily done with 
wireless, and “Advanced Broadband” is 25/3Mb.I still think there is a very 
valid argument that 10Mbps is more than sufficient for the services that the 
government should be guaranteeing (phone, telemedicine, education).  25/3 is 
more about entertainment than anything else and I don’t see where this is a 
taxpayer obligation.   I want Broadway shows in my little town too - but I 
don’t expect the government to fund them.

 

The major carriers are moving away from landlines as fast as they can and are 
really looking to replace all last mile with wireless if they can make it work 
(and they think they can).  I don’t think it will be long until getting 
traditional landline service in the city is no longer an option - why would we 
still be forcing this in rural areas?

 

The other issue is the cash cow that funded USF for years (intrastate phone 
revenue) is rapidly diminishing and will finish it's spiral of death soon 
unless the contribution base is expanded to broadband.  

 

Mark

 

Mark Radabaugh

WISPA FCC Committee Chair

fcc_ch...@wispa.org

419-261-5996

 

On Feb 1, 2017, at 12:38 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

 

Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 house every 
5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas like 
that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house.  

 

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 

Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

 

If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service the 
rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money

 

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:



You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, so I 
wouldn't hold my breath.

On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:



i think that bank account may be closed very soon

 

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote:

Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and the only 
approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to orange trash 
bags.   Except when those are out of stock. 

 

Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need more 
support money to fix the plant.  The only question is if they do it this year 
or next.

 

Mark Radabaugh

WISPA FCC Committee Chair

fcc_ch...@wispa.org

419-261-5996 <tel:(419)%20261-5996> 

 

On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

 

They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a s

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Chuck McCown]

Got zero subsidy.  Just earning the same rate of return all the other LECs 
earn.  
It is a cost recovery mechanism, not a subsidy.  
It replaced the super high long distance charges of times past.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

Any of them getting 1/10th of the subsidy you got.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:11:57 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


What wisp?  Show me the wisp that would do this.

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

If you plowed 20 miles of fiber for one house, you can bet your ass a WISP 
would do the same.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:38:35 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 house every 
5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas like 
that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house.  

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service the 
rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

  You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, so I 
wouldn't hold my breath.

  On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

i think that bank account may be closed very soon

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote:

  Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and the 
only approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to orange 
trash bags.   Except when those are out of stock. 

  Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need 
more support money to fix the plant.  The only question is if they do it this 
year or next.

  Mark Radabaugh
  WISPA FCC Committee Chair
  fcc_ch...@wispa.org
  419-261-5996

On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
    Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:49:50 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


These should all be fiber fed. Any new DSLAM's with CAF funding are 
very likely fiber fed. They just can't support the bandwidth requirements with 
only bonded T1's anymore. 

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:34 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> 
wrote:

  One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps 
link to each line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything 
short of at least a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the 
E7-2s I've used in the past though :)

  On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
<li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

Out of curiosity, do  you know how are they feeding these shelves?  
 


I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was 
feeding an entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's.   


On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl 
<darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> wrote:

  Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF 
funding from Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks 
they took funding for. 

  If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect 
them to be able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to 
customers in range of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, they may 
see up to 40/1 Mbps speeds.

  On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson 
<cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:

As someone already said, its clearly and E3.  
https://www.calix.com/sy

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Chuck McCown]

41°58'47.85"N, 113°59'57.72"W

Two houses there now.  Central office is in Grouse Creek.

Pretty sure there is not a wisp in the known universe that would have served 
these guys.  
(With zero install fee).  



From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

If you plowed 20 miles of fiber for one house, you can bet your ass a WISP 
would do the same.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:38:35 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 house every 
5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas like 
that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house.  

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service the 
rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

  You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, so I 
wouldn't hold my breath.

  On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

i think that bank account may be closed very soon

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote:

  Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and the 
only approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to orange 
trash bags.   Except when those are out of stock. 

  Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need 
more support money to fix the plant.  The only question is if they do it this 
year or next.

  Mark Radabaugh
  WISPA FCC Committee Chair
  fcc_ch...@wispa.org
  419-261-5996

On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:49:50 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


These should all be fiber fed. Any new DSLAM's with CAF funding are 
very likely fiber fed. They just can't support the bandwidth requirements with 
only bonded T1's anymore. 

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:34 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> 
wrote:

  One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps 
link to each line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything 
short of at least a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the 
E7-2s I've used in the past though :)

  On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
<li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

Out of curiosity, do  you know how are they feeding these shelves?  
 


I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was 
feeding an entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's.   


On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl 
<darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> wrote:

  Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF 
funding from Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks 
they took funding for. 

  If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect 
them to be able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to 
customers in range of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, they may 
see up to 40/1 Mbps speeds.

  On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson 
<cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:

As someone already said, its clearly and E3.  
https://www.calix.com/systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:18 PM, George Skorup 
<george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:

  Regen would be my guess.

  On 1/31/2017 2:45 PM, Tim Reichhart wrote:

it got fiber ran into it for remote dslam to provide 
customers vdsl2 along that route.

Tim

-Original Message-

  From: "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
      To: af@afmug.com
  Da

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Mike Hammett]

Any of them getting 1/10th of the subsidy you got. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 2:11:57 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 




What wisp? Show me the wisp that would do this. 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:08 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 


If you plowed 20 miles of fiber for one house, you can bet your ass a WISP 
would do the same. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:38:35 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 




Depends on what you call rural. I have served areas with perhaps 1 house every 
5 miles. You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas like 
that. I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house. 




From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 


If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service the 
rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money 


On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie < 
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com > wrote: 


You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, so I 
wouldn't hold my breath. 

On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm < 
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 



i think that bank account may be closed very soon 


On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh < m...@amplex.net > wrote: 





Lipstick on a pig. The copper in still rotting in the ground and the only 
approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to orange trash 
bags. Except when those are out of stock. 

Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need more 
support money to fix the plant. The only question is if they do it this year or 
next. 




Mark Radabaugh 
WISPA FCC Committee Chair 
fcc_ch...@wispa.org 
419-261-5996 






On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 



They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Darin Steffl" < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:49:50 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 


These should all be fiber fed. Any new DSLAM's with CAF funding are very likely 
fiber fed. They just can't support the bandwidth requirements with only bonded 
T1's anymore. 


On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:34 PM, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: 



One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps link to each 
line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything short of at least 
a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the E7-2s I've used in 
the past though :) 




On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" < 
li...@packetflux.com > wrote: 




Out of curiosity, do you know how are they feeding these shelves? 

I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was feeding an 
entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's. 



On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > 
wrote: 



Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF funding from 
Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks they took 
funding for. 

If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect them to be 
able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to customers in range 
of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, they may see up to 40/1 
Mbps speeds. 




On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson < cpeter...@portnetworks.com > 
wrote: 



As someone already said, its clearly and E3. 
https://www.calix.com/systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html 




On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:18 PM, George Skorup < george.sko...@cbcast.com > 
wrote: 


Regen would be my guess. 

On 1/31/2017 2:45 PM, Tim Reichhart wrote: 


it got fiber ran into it for remote dslam to provide customers vdsl2 along that 
route. 

Tim 

-Original Message- 


From: "Carl Peterson" < cpeter...@portnetworks.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Date: 01/31/17 03:28 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 

Calix. I'd guess G.Fast 

Sent from my iPhone 



On Jan 31, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Josh Corson < j...@bluebitnetworks.com > wrote: 



Does anyone know what these are? They are popping up on fairl

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Chuck McCown]

What wisp?  Show me the wisp that would do this.

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:08 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

If you plowed 20 miles of fiber for one house, you can bet your ass a WISP 
would do the same.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:38:35 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 house every 
5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas like 
that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house.  

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service the 
rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

  You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, so I 
wouldn't hold my breath.

  On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

i think that bank account may be closed very soon

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote:

  Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and the 
only approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to orange 
trash bags.   Except when those are out of stock. 

  Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need 
more support money to fix the plant.  The only question is if they do it this 
year or next.

  Mark Radabaugh
  WISPA FCC Committee Chair
  fcc_ch...@wispa.org
  419-261-5996

On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:49:50 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


These should all be fiber fed. Any new DSLAM's with CAF funding are 
very likely fiber fed. They just can't support the bandwidth requirements with 
only bonded T1's anymore. 

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:34 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> 
wrote:

  One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps 
link to each line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything 
short of at least a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the 
E7-2s I've used in the past though :)

  On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
<li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

Out of curiosity, do  you know how are they feeding these shelves?  
 


I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was 
feeding an entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's.   


On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl 
<darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> wrote:

  Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF 
funding from Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks 
they took funding for. 

  If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect 
them to be able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to 
customers in range of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, they may 
see up to 40/1 Mbps speeds.

  On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson 
<cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:

As someone already said, its clearly and E3.  
https://www.calix.com/systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:18 PM, George Skorup 
<george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:

  Regen would be my guess.

  On 1/31/2017 2:45 PM, Tim Reichhart wrote:

it got fiber ran into it for remote dslam to provide 
customers vdsl2 along that route.

Tim

-Original Message-

  From: "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
      To: af@afmug.com
  Date: 01/31/17 03:28 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

  Calix.  I'd guess G.Fast

  Sent fro

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Chuck McCown]

They wanted service.
They live in the USA.
The exchange was getting rebuilt using a RUS loan.

That is the justification.  
And it does make 11.25% ROI and will until it is fully depreciated.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 1:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

Justify plowing 20 miles of fiber to serve one house any way you want, you’re 
rationalizing.

 

How sure are you that 20 years from now, that investment will still look 
“future proof”?  Or will it look like 8-track tapes and CB radio and non-flying 
cars and meat made from animals?

 

I remember when we were supposed to wire every house for ISDN, because in the 
future, everyone would “need” two 64 kbps bearer channels and a 16 kbps data 
channel and “integrated services”.  The Germans installed a lot of ISDN BRI and 
mocked us for not following their example.  This was 20 years ago, and the 
futurists all had $1000 ISDN modems in their houses so they could spend half an 
hour downloading a photo from a bulletin board.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 1:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

 

I agree with you on the need.  In my mind, nobody "needs" more than 1meg.  
10meg generally makes them happy and not have too fuss about how they're using 
it (for now).  They "want" 25-100 meg for all their entertainment.

 

Put another way:  I might only "need" 10 amps of electrical capacity as long as 
I'm careful about how I'm using it, but my 200 amp service makes me a happy and 
contented consumer for the foreseeable future.

 

Regardless of what anyone "needs", fiber is going to end up the standard 
delivery mechanism for data because it will meet the need of today and the need 
of next year and the next 50 years.  If you build anything else, then in the 
long run you'll have people still clamoring for improvement and it will end up 
being replaced.  

 

There's nothing wrong with meeting the immediate need with wireless, and you 
can absolutely make money doing it, but the long term and permanent answer is 
going to be fiber.  So if you want to stay relevant in the future you'll be 
looking at how to get into that game whether it's with private funding or 
government subsidy.

 

This is a WISP, we're a WISPA member, and I want WISP's to succeed.but 
facts is facts.

 

-Adam

 

 

 

-- Original Message --

From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>

To: af@afmug.com

Sent: 2/1/2017 2:11:22 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

 

  Chuck,

   

  Explain why we would have to bury fiber for that customer when the current 
standard for ‘served’ for Internet is 10Mbps which is easily done with 
wireless, and “Advanced Broadband” is 25/3Mb.I still think there is a very 
valid argument that 10Mbps is more than sufficient for the services that the 
government should be guaranteeing (phone, telemedicine, education).  25/3 is 
more about entertainment than anything else and I don’t see where this is a 
taxpayer obligation.   I want Broadway shows in my little town too - but I 
don’t expect the government to fund them.

   

  The major carriers are moving away from landlines as fast as they can and are 
really looking to replace all last mile with wireless if they can make it work 
(and they think they can).  I don’t think it will be long until getting 
traditional landline service in the city is no longer an option - why would we 
still be forcing this in rural areas?

   

  The other issue is the cash cow that funded USF for years (intrastate phone 
revenue) is rapidly diminishing and will finish it's spiral of death soon 
unless the contribution base is expanded to broadband.  

   

  Mark

   

  Mark Radabaugh

  WISPA FCC Committee Chair

  fcc_ch...@wispa.org

  419-261-5996

   

On Feb 1, 2017, at 12:38 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

 

Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 house 
every 5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas 
like that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house.  

 

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 

Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

 

If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service 
the rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money

 

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:



  You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, 
so I wouldn't hold my breath.

  On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:



i think that bank account may be closed very soon

 

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Mike Hammett]

If you plowed 20 miles of fiber for one house, you can bet your ass a WISP 
would do the same. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 11:38:35 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 




Depends on what you call rural. I have served areas with perhaps 1 house every 
5 miles. You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas like 
that. I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house. 




From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 


If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service the 
rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money 


On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie < 
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com > wrote: 


You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, so I 
wouldn't hold my breath. 

On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm < 
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 



i think that bank account may be closed very soon 


On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh < m...@amplex.net > wrote: 





Lipstick on a pig. The copper in still rotting in the ground and the only 
approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to orange trash 
bags. Except when those are out of stock. 

Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need more 
support money to fix the plant. The only question is if they do it this year or 
next. 




Mark Radabaugh 
WISPA FCC Committee Chair 
fcc_ch...@wispa.org 
419-261-5996 






On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 



They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Darin Steffl" < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:49:50 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 


These should all be fiber fed. Any new DSLAM's with CAF funding are very likely 
fiber fed. They just can't support the bandwidth requirements with only bonded 
T1's anymore. 


On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:34 PM, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: 



One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps link to each 
line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything short of at least 
a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the E7-2s I've used in 
the past though :) 




On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" < 
li...@packetflux.com > wrote: 




Out of curiosity, do you know how are they feeding these shelves? 

I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was feeding an 
entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's. 



On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > 
wrote: 



Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF funding from 
Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks they took 
funding for. 

If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect them to be 
able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to customers in range 
of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, they may see up to 40/1 
Mbps speeds. 




On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson < cpeter...@portnetworks.com > 
wrote: 



As someone already said, its clearly and E3. 
https://www.calix.com/systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html 




On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:18 PM, George Skorup < george.sko...@cbcast.com > 
wrote: 


Regen would be my guess. 

On 1/31/2017 2:45 PM, Tim Reichhart wrote: 


it got fiber ran into it for remote dslam to provide customers vdsl2 along that 
route. 

Tim 

-Original Message- 


From: "Carl Peterson" < cpeter...@portnetworks.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Date: 01/31/17 03:28 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 

Calix. I'd guess G.Fast 

Sent from my iPhone 



On Jan 31, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Josh Corson < j...@bluebitnetworks.com > wrote: 



Does anyone know what these are? They are popping up on fairly rural 
areas of our coverage areas and on the state highways. 

Thanks 
 
 













-- 



Carl Peterson 

PORT NETWORKS 
401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 
Baltimore, MD 21202 
(410) 637-3707 




-- 


Darin Steffl 
Minnesota WiFi 
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi 
Like us on Facebook 




-- 






Forrest Christian CEO , PacketFlux Technologies, Inc. 

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com 










-- 


Darin Steffl 
Minnesota WiFi 
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi 

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Ken Hohhof]

Justify plowing 20 miles of fiber to serve one house any way you want, you’re 
rationalizing.

 

How sure are you that 20 years from now, that investment will still look 
“future proof”?  Or will it look like 8-track tapes and CB radio and non-flying 
cars and meat made from animals?

 

I remember when we were supposed to wire every house for ISDN, because in the 
future, everyone would “need” two 64 kbps bearer channels and a 16 kbps data 
channel and “integrated services”.  The Germans installed a lot of ISDN BRI and 
mocked us for not following their example.  This was 20 years ago, and the 
futurists all had $1000 ISDN modems in their houses so they could spend half an 
hour downloading a photo from a bulletin board.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 1:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

 

I agree with you on the need.  In my mind, nobody "needs" more than 1meg.  
10meg generally makes them happy and not have too fuss about how they're using 
it (for now).  They "want" 25-100 meg for all their entertainment.

 

Put another way:  I might only "need" 10 amps of electrical capacity as long as 
I'm careful about how I'm using it, but my 200 amp service makes me a happy and 
contented consumer for the foreseeable future.

 

Regardless of what anyone "needs", fiber is going to end up the standard 
delivery mechanism for data because it will meet the need of today and the need 
of next year and the next 50 years.  If you build anything else, then in the 
long run you'll have people still clamoring for improvement and it will end up 
being replaced.  

 

There's nothing wrong with meeting the immediate need with wireless, and you 
can absolutely make money doing it, but the long term and permanent answer is 
going to be fiber.  So if you want to stay relevant in the future you'll be 
looking at how to get into that game whether it's with private funding or 
government subsidy.

 

This is a WISP, we're a WISPA member, and I want WISP's to succeed.but 
facts is facts.

 

-Adam

 

 

 

-- Original Message --

From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net <mailto:m...@amplex.net> >

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 

Sent: 2/1/2017 2:11:22 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

 

Chuck,

 

Explain why we would have to bury fiber for that customer when the current 
standard for ‘served’ for Internet is 10Mbps which is easily done with 
wireless, and “Advanced Broadband” is 25/3Mb.I still think there is a very 
valid argument that 10Mbps is more than sufficient for the services that the 
government should be guaranteeing (phone, telemedicine, education).  25/3 is 
more about entertainment than anything else and I don’t see where this is a 
taxpayer obligation.   I want Broadway shows in my little town too - but I 
don’t expect the government to fund them.

 

The major carriers are moving away from landlines as fast as they can and are 
really looking to replace all last mile with wireless if they can make it work 
(and they think they can).  I don’t think it will be long until getting 
traditional landline service in the city is no longer an option - why would we 
still be forcing this in rural areas?

 

The other issue is the cash cow that funded USF for years (intrastate phone 
revenue) is rapidly diminishing and will finish it's spiral of death soon 
unless the contribution base is expanded to broadband.  

 

Mark

 

Mark Radabaugh

WISPA FCC Committee Chair

fcc_ch...@wispa.org <mailto:fcc_ch...@wispa.org> 

419-261-5996

 

On Feb 1, 2017, at 12:38 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com 
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

 

Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 house every 
5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas like 
that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house.  

 

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 

Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

 

If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service the 
rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money

 

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:



You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, so I 
wouldn't hold my breath.

On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:



i think that bank account may be closed very soon

 

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote:

Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and the only 
approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to orange trash 
bags.   Except when those are out of stock. 

 

Centurylink will be ba

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Chuck McCown]

I “need” at least 10 meg at home.  I want to stream 2-3 things at once.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 12:55 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

I agree with you on the need.  In my mind, nobody "needs" more than 1meg.  
10meg generally makes them happy and not have too fuss about how they're using 
it (for now).  They "want" 25-100 meg for all their entertainment.

Put another way:  I might only "need" 10 amps of electrical capacity as long as 
I'm careful about how I'm using it, but my 200 amp service makes me a happy and 
contented consumer for the foreseeable future.

Regardless of what anyone "needs", fiber is going to end up the standard 
delivery mechanism for data because it will meet the need of today and the need 
of next year and the next 50 years.  If you build anything else, then in the 
long run you'll have people still clamoring for improvement and it will end up 
being replaced.  

There's nothing wrong with meeting the immediate need with wireless, and you 
can absolutely make money doing it, but the long term and permanent answer is 
going to be fiber.  So if you want to stay relevant in the future you'll be 
looking at how to get into that game whether it's with private funding or 
government subsidy.

This is a WISP, we're a WISPA member, and I want WISP's to succeed.but 
facts is facts.

-Adam



-- Original Message --
From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/1/2017 2:11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

  Chuck,

  Explain why we would have to bury fiber for that customer when the current 
standard for ‘served’ for Internet is 10Mbps which is easily done with 
wireless, and “Advanced Broadband” is 25/3Mb.I still think there is a very 
valid argument that 10Mbps is more than sufficient for the services that the 
government should be guaranteeing (phone, telemedicine, education).  25/3 is 
more about entertainment than anything else and I don’t see where this is a 
taxpayer obligation.   I want Broadway shows in my little town too - but I 
don’t expect the government to fund them.

  The major carriers are moving away from landlines as fast as they can and are 
really looking to replace all last mile with wireless if they can make it work 
(and they think they can).  I don’t think it will be long until getting 
traditional landline service in the city is no longer an option - why would we 
still be forcing this in rural areas?

  The other issue is the cash cow that funded USF for years (intrastate phone 
revenue) is rapidly diminishing and will finish it's spiral of death soon 
unless the contribution base is expanded to broadband.  

  Mark

  Mark Radabaugh
  WISPA FCC Committee Chair
  fcc_ch...@wispa.org
  419-261-5996

On Feb 1, 2017, at 12:38 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 house 
every 5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas 
like that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house.  

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service 
the rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

  You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, 
so I wouldn't hold my breath.

  On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

i think that bank account may be closed very soon

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote:

  Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and 
the only approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to 
orange trash bags.   Except when those are out of stock. 

  Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need 
more support money to fix the plant.  The only question is if they do it this 
year or next.

  Mark Radabaugh
  WISPA FCC Committee Chair
  fcc_ch...@wispa.org
  419-261-5996

On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
    To: af@afmug.com
    Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:49:50 PM

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Adam Moffett]

I agree with you on the need.  In my mind, nobody "needs" more than 
1meg.  10meg generally makes them happy and not have too fuss about how 
they're using it (for now).  They "want" 25-100 meg for all their 
entertainment.


Put another way:  I might only "need" 10 amps of electrical capacity as 
long as I'm careful about how I'm using it, but my 200 amp service makes 
me a happy and contented consumer for the foreseeable future.


Regardless of what anyone "needs", fiber is going to end up the standard 
delivery mechanism for data because it will meet the need of today and 
the need of next year and the next 50 years.  If you build anything 
else, then in the long run you'll have people still clamoring for 
improvement and it will end up being replaced.


There's nothing wrong with meeting the immediate need with wireless, and 
you can absolutely make money doing it, but the long term and permanent 
answer is going to be fiber.  So if you want to stay relevant in the 
future you'll be looking at how to get into that game whether it's with 
private funding or government subsidy.


This is a WISP, we're a WISPA member, and I want WISP's to 
succeed.but facts is facts.


-Adam



-- Original Message --
From: "Mark Radabaugh" <m...@amplex.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/1/2017 2:11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


Chuck,

Explain why we would have to bury fiber for that customer when the 
current standard for ‘served’ for Internet is 10Mbps which is easily 
done with wireless, and “Advanced Broadband” is 25/3Mb.I still 
think there is a very valid argument that 10Mbps is more than 
sufficient for the services that the government should be guaranteeing 
(phone, telemedicine, education).  25/3 is more about entertainment 
than anything else and I don’t see where this is a taxpayer obligation. 
  I want Broadway shows in my little town too - but I don’t expect the 
government to fund them.


The major carriers are moving away from landlines as fast as they can 
and are really looking to replace all last mile with wireless if they 
can make it work (and they think they can).  I don’t think it will be 
long until getting traditional landline service in the city is no 
longer an option - why would we still be forcing this in rural areas?


The other issue is the cash cow that funded USF for years (intrastate 
phone revenue) is rapidly diminishing and will finish it's spiral of 
death soon unless the contribution base is expanded to broadband.


Mark

Mark Radabaugh
WISPA FCC Committee Chair
fcc_ch...@wispa.org
419-261-5996


On Feb 1, 2017, at 12:38 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 
house every 5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to 
build out in areas like that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one 
single house.


From:That One Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively 
service the rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money


On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big 
telco, so I wouldn't hold my breath.


On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

i think that bank account may be closed very soon

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> 
wrote:
Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and 
the only approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from 
black to orange trash bags.   Except when those are out of stock.


Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the 
need more support money to fix the plant.  The only question is if 
they do it this year or next.


Mark Radabaugh
WISPA FCC Committee Chair
fcc_ch...@wispa.org
419-261-5996 <tel:(419)%20261-5996>


On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>

Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>

The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
----

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Chuck McCown]

Because you don’t build copper any more.  The RUS will not finance a copper 
build.  
The USF contribution base is largely coming from cell phone carriers these 
days, but yes it will probably eventually expand to all internet services.

Hey, I didn’t write the rules, I just read them.  Don’t hate me because I am 
beautiful.  

From: Mark Radabaugh 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 12:11 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

Chuck,

Explain why we would have to bury fiber for that customer when the current 
standard for ‘served’ for Internet is 10Mbps which is easily done with 
wireless, and “Advanced Broadband” is 25/3Mb.I still think there is a very 
valid argument that 10Mbps is more than sufficient for the services that the 
government should be guaranteeing (phone, telemedicine, education).  25/3 is 
more about entertainment than anything else and I don’t see where this is a 
taxpayer obligation.   I want Broadway shows in my little town too - but I 
don’t expect the government to fund them.

The major carriers are moving away from landlines as fast as they can and are 
really looking to replace all last mile with wireless if they can make it work 
(and they think they can).  I don’t think it will be long until getting 
traditional landline service in the city is no longer an option - why would we 
still be forcing this in rural areas?

The other issue is the cash cow that funded USF for years (intrastate phone 
revenue) is rapidly diminishing and will finish it's spiral of death soon 
unless the contribution base is expanded to broadband.  

Mark

Mark Radabaugh
WISPA FCC Committee Chair
fcc_ch...@wispa.org
419-261-5996

  On Feb 1, 2017, at 12:38 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 house 
every 5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas 
like that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house.  

  From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

  If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service the 
rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money

  On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, so 
I wouldn't hold my breath.

On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

  i think that bank account may be closed very soon

  On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote:

Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and the 
only approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to orange 
trash bags.   Except when those are out of stock. 

Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need 
more support money to fix the plant.  The only question is if they do it this 
year or next.

Mark Radabaugh
WISPA FCC Committee Chair
fcc_ch...@wispa.org
419-261-5996

  On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

  They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:49:50 PM
      Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


  These should all be fiber fed. Any new DSLAM's with CAF funding are 
very likely fiber fed. They just can't support the bandwidth requirements with 
only bonded T1's anymore. 

  On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:34 PM, Josh Reynolds 
<j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:

One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps 
link to each line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything 
short of at least a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the 
E7-2s I've used in the past though :)

On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
<li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

  Out of curiosity, do  you know how are they feeding these 
shelves?   


  I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was 
feeding an entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's.   


  On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl 
<darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> wrote:

Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF 
funding from Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks 
they took funding for. 

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Mark Radabaugh]

Chuck,

Explain why we would have to bury fiber for that customer when the current 
standard for ‘served’ for Internet is 10Mbps which is easily done with 
wireless, and “Advanced Broadband” is 25/3Mb.I still think there is a very 
valid argument that 10Mbps is more than sufficient for the services that the 
government should be guaranteeing (phone, telemedicine, education).  25/3 is 
more about entertainment than anything else and I don’t see where this is a 
taxpayer obligation.   I want Broadway shows in my little town too - but I 
don’t expect the government to fund them.

The major carriers are moving away from landlines as fast as they can and are 
really looking to replace all last mile with wireless if they can make it work 
(and they think they can).  I don’t think it will be long until getting 
traditional landline service in the city is no longer an option - why would we 
still be forcing this in rural areas?

The other issue is the cash cow that funded USF for years (intrastate phone 
revenue) is rapidly diminishing and will finish it's spiral of death soon 
unless the contribution base is expanded to broadband.  

Mark

Mark Radabaugh
WISPA FCC Committee Chair
fcc_ch...@wispa.org
419-261-5996

> On Feb 1, 2017, at 12:38 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
> 
> Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 house 
> every 5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in 
> areas like that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house. 
>  
> From: That One Guy /sarcasm <>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM
> To: af@afmug.com <>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
>  
> If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service the 
> rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money
>  
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie 
> <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com <>> wrote:
>> You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, so 
>> I wouldn't hold my breath.
>> 
>> On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm 
>> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com <>> wrote:
>>> i think that bank account may be closed very soon
>>>  
>>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net <>> wrote:
>>>> Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and the 
>>>> only approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to 
>>>> orange trash bags.   Except when those are out of stock.
>>>>  
>>>> Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need more 
>>>> support money to fix the plant.  The only question is if they do it this 
>>>> year or next.
>>>>  
>>>> Mark Radabaugh
>>>> WISPA FCC Committee Chair
>>>> fcc_ch...@wispa.org <>
>>>> 419-261-5996 <tel:(419)%20261-5996>
>>>>  
>>>>> On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net <>> wrote:
>>>>>  
>>>>> They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -
>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>>>  <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
>>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
>>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>>>  <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
>>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>>>  <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>>> From: "Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com <>>
>>>>> To: af@afmug.com <>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:49:50 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
>>>>> 
>>>>> These should all be fiber fed. Any new DSLAM's with CAF funding are very 
>>>>> likely fiber fed. They just can't support the bandwidth requirements with 
>>>>> only bonded T1's anymore.
>>>>>  
>&g

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Chuck McCown]

Called the “duty to serve” which is legal doctrine dating back to the roman 
empire.  When you are granted the right to a road or waterway or whatever, you 
must take all that will pay the tariff.  It is the foundation of common 
carriage.  

An ILEC is a common carrier.  

In more modern language it is called the POLR or Provider of Last Resort.  When 
applying for an RUS loan, you must canvass everyone in the area.  All that want 
service get service.  

And so far, this is all voice.  Internet comes along for the ride, but you 
cannot build if they don’t ask for POTS.  

From: Darin Steffl 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 11:17 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

Chuck,

Can you provide some scenarios where an ILEC is required to build? For example 
on that 20 mile build. Was there not already copper in the ground for voice 
service? I know an ILEC is required to provide voice but are they actually 
required to build to that customer at no charge to them for capital build? 
Internet is not required to be built with USF, just voice correct?

So for that 20 mile build, there were no other homes on that span and I'm 
assuming no usable copper so fiber was the logical choice? How was the build 
funded and justified? New home on some ranch in Montana or something?

Small ILEC or big one like century link? I wouldn't think century link would 
ever build 20 miles to anyone at no cost to the end user. 

Trying to learn more about this.

Thanks 

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 12:02 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  The national doctrine of universal service does not allow you to discriminate 
against people like that.  Moreover the funds were borrowed from the the USDA 
which is actually a profit center, so in reality this is making money for the 
government.

  You do not have to agree, but universal service has been the law of the land 
for about 75 years.  
  Satellite is not an option for low latency phone and data.  You have to give 
them the same service as the other customers.  

  So, as long as the USDA is loaning money and as long as the FCC uses part 32 
and 36 to allow a return on the income and as long as the users of the PSTN pay 
their USF FEES, it will continue.  Again, no tax dollars are harmed in this 
process.  

  From: Darin Steffl 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:45 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
  Chuck, 

  I do NOT agree that any company should be required or use govt. funds to 
build out broadband to ONE house in 20 miles because it's a right or a utility. 
Unless the customer agrees to pay the majority of the cost.

  For homes like that which are so spread out that ROI is 50-100 years, they 
should be served with either Fixed Wireless or satellite internet. There is no 
sense in spending Govt. funding or even private dollars to build to 1 house 
every 5 or 20 miles. Makes so sense and is a complete waste of everyone's $$$ 
when satellite is an option.
  On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:38 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 house 
every 5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas 
like that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house.  

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service 
the rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

  You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, 
so I wouldn't hold my breath.

  On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

i think that bank account may be closed very soon

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote:

  Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and 
the only approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to 
orange trash bags.   Except when those are out of stock. 

  Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need 
more support money to fix the plant.  The only question is if they do it this 
year or next.

  Mark Radabaugh
  WISPA FCC Committee Chair
  fcc_ch...@wispa.org
  419-261-5996

On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








   

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Darin Steffl]

Chuck,

Can you provide some scenarios where an ILEC is required to build? For
example on that 20 mile build. Was there not already copper in the ground
for voice service? I know an ILEC is required to provide voice but are they
actually required to build to that customer at no charge to them for
capital build? Internet is not required to be built with USF, just voice
correct?

So for that 20 mile build, there were no other homes on that span and I'm
assuming no usable copper so fiber was the logical choice? How was the
build funded and justified? New home on some ranch in Montana or something?

Small ILEC or big one like century link? I wouldn't think century link
would ever build 20 miles to anyone at no cost to the end user.

Trying to learn more about this.

Thanks

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 12:02 PM Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> The national doctrine of universal service does not allow you to
> discriminate against people like that.  Moreover the funds were borrowed
> from the the USDA which is actually a profit center, so in reality this is
> making money for the government.
>
> You do not have to agree, but universal service has been the law of the
> land for about 75 years.
> Satellite is not an option for low latency phone and data.  You have to
> give them the same service as the other customers.
>
> So, as long as the USDA is loaning money and as long as the FCC uses part
> 32 and 36 to allow a return on the income and as long as the users of the
> PSTN pay their USF FEES, it will continue.  Again, no tax dollars are
> harmed in this process.
>
> *From:* Darin Steffl
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:45 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
> Chuck,
>
> I do NOT agree that any company should be required or use govt. funds to
> build out broadband to ONE house in 20 miles because it's a right or a
> utility. Unless the customer agrees to pay the majority of the cost.
>
> For homes like that which are so spread out that ROI is 50-100 years, they
> should be served with either Fixed Wireless or satellite internet. There is
> no sense in spending Govt. funding or even private dollars to build to 1
> house every 5 or 20 miles. Makes so sense and is a complete waste of
> everyone's $$$ when satellite is an option.
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:38 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
> Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 house
> every 5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in
> areas like that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house.
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
>
> If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service
> the rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money
>
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
> You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco,
> so I wouldn't hold my breath.
>
> On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> i think that bank account may be closed very soon
>
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote:
>
> Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and the
> only approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to
> orange trash bags.   Except when those are out of stock.
>
> Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need more
> support money to fix the plant.  The only question is if they do it this
> year or next.
>
> Mark Radabaugh
> WISPA FCC Committee Chair
> fcc_ch...@wispa.org
> 419-261-5996 <(419)%20261-5996>
>
>
> On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
> They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> 

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Chuck McCown]

The national doctrine of universal service does not allow you to discriminate 
against people like that.  Moreover the funds were borrowed from the the USDA 
which is actually a profit center, so in reality this is making money for the 
government.

You do not have to agree, but universal service has been the law of the land 
for about 75 years.  
Satellite is not an option for low latency phone and data.  You have to give 
them the same service as the other customers.  

So, as long as the USDA is loaning money and as long as the FCC uses part 32 
and 36 to allow a return on the income and as long as the users of the PSTN pay 
their USF FEES, it will continue.  Again, no tax dollars are harmed in this 
process.  

From: Darin Steffl 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:45 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

Chuck, 

I do NOT agree that any company should be required or use govt. funds to build 
out broadband to ONE house in 20 miles because it's a right or a utility. 
Unless the customer agrees to pay the majority of the cost.

For homes like that which are so spread out that ROI is 50-100 years, they 
should be served with either Fixed Wireless or satellite internet. There is no 
sense in spending Govt. funding or even private dollars to build to 1 house 
every 5 or 20 miles. Makes so sense and is a complete waste of everyone's $$$ 
when satellite is an option.

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:38 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 house 
every 5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas 
like that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house.  

  From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

  If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service the 
rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money

  On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, so 
I wouldn't hold my breath.

On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

  i think that bank account may be closed very soon

  On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote:

Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and the 
only approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to orange 
trash bags.   Except when those are out of stock. 

Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need 
more support money to fix the plant.  The only question is if they do it this 
year or next.

Mark Radabaugh
WISPA FCC Committee Chair
fcc_ch...@wispa.org
419-261-5996

  On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

  They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
  To: af@afmug.com

  Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:49:50 PM
      Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


  These should all be fiber fed. Any new DSLAM's with CAF funding are 
very likely fiber fed. They just can't support the bandwidth requirements with 
only bonded T1's anymore. 

  On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:34 PM, Josh Reynolds 
<j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:

One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps 
link to each line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything 
short of at least a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the 
E7-2s I've used in the past though :)

On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
<li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

  Out of curiosity, do  you know how are they feeding these 
shelves?   


  I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was 
feeding an entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's.   


  On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl 
<darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> wrote:

Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF 
funding from Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks 
they took funding for. 

If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, 
expect them to be able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to 
customers in range of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, they may 
see up to 40/1 Mbps speeds

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Darin Steffl]

Chuck,

I do NOT agree that any company should be required or use govt. funds to
build out broadband to ONE house in 20 miles because it's a right or a
utility. Unless the customer agrees to pay the majority of the cost.

For homes like that which are so spread out that ROI is 50-100 years, they
should be served with either Fixed Wireless or satellite internet. There is
no sense in spending Govt. funding or even private dollars to build to 1
house every 5 or 20 miles. Makes so sense and is a complete waste of
everyone's $$$ when satellite is an option.

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:38 AM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 house
> every 5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in
> areas like that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house.
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
>
> If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service
> the rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money
>
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco,
>> so I wouldn't hold my breath.
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> i think that bank account may be closed very soon
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and the
>>>> only approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to
>>>> orange trash bags.   Except when those are out of stock.
>>>>
>>>> Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need
>>>> more support money to fix the plant.  The only question is if they do it
>>>> this year or next.
>>>>
>>>> Mark Radabaugh
>>>> WISPA FCC Committee Chair
>>>> fcc_ch...@wispa.org
>>>> 419-261-5996 <(419)%20261-5996>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>> --
>>>> *From: *"Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:49:50 PM
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
>>>>
>>>> These should all be fiber fed. Any new DSLAM's with CAF funding are
>>>> very likely fiber fed. They just can't support the bandwidth requirements
>>>> with only bonded T1's anymore.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:34 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps link
>>>>> to each line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything 
>>>>> short
>>>>> of at least a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the
>>>>> E7-2s I've used in the past though :)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
>>>>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Out of curiosity, do  you know how are they feeding these shelves?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Chuck McCown]

Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 house every 
5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in areas like 
that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house.  

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service the 
rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

  You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, so I 
wouldn't hold my breath.

  On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

i think that bank account may be closed very soon

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote:

  Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and the 
only approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to orange 
trash bags.   Except when those are out of stock. 

  Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need 
more support money to fix the plant.  The only question is if they do it this 
year or next.

  Mark Radabaugh
  WISPA FCC Committee Chair
  fcc_ch...@wispa.org
  419-261-5996

On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:49:50 PM
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


These should all be fiber fed. Any new DSLAM's with CAF funding are 
very likely fiber fed. They just can't support the bandwidth requirements with 
only bonded T1's anymore. 

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:34 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> 
wrote:

  One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps 
link to each line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything 
short of at least a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the 
E7-2s I've used in the past though :)

  On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
<li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

Out of curiosity, do  you know how are they feeding these shelves?  
 


I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was 
feeding an entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's.   


On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl 
<darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> wrote:

  Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF 
funding from Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks 
they took funding for. 

  If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect 
them to be able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to 
customers in range of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, they may 
see up to 40/1 Mbps speeds.

  On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson 
<cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:

As someone already said, its clearly and E3.  
https://www.calix.com/systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:18 PM, George Skorup 
<george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:

  Regen would be my guess.

  On 1/31/2017 2:45 PM, Tim Reichhart wrote:

it got fiber ran into it for remote dslam to provide 
customers vdsl2 along that route.

Tim

-Original Message-

  From: "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
      Date: 01/31/17 03:28 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

  Calix.  I'd guess G.Fast

  Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 31, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Josh Corson 
<j...@bluebitnetworks.com> wrote:


Does anyone know what these are? They are popping up on 
fairly rural
areas of our coverage areas and on the state highways.

Thanks












-- 

Carl Peterson


PORT NETWORKS

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707 





  -- 

  Darin Steffl 
 

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service
the rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco,
> so I wouldn't hold my breath.
>
> On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> i think that bank account may be closed very soon
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and the
>>> only approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to
>>> orange trash bags.   Except when those are out of stock.
>>>
>>> Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need
>>> more support money to fix the plant.  The only question is if they do it
>>> this year or next.
>>>
>>> Mark Radabaugh
>>> WISPA FCC Committee Chair
>>> fcc_ch...@wispa.org
>>> 419-261-5996 <(419)%20261-5996>
>>>
>>> On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:49:50 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
>>>
>>> These should all be fiber fed. Any new DSLAM's with CAF funding are very
>>> likely fiber fed. They just can't support the bandwidth requirements with
>>> only bonded T1's anymore.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:34 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps link
>>>> to each line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything short
>>>> of at least a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the
>>>> E7-2s I've used in the past though :)
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
>>>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Out of curiosity, do  you know how are they feeding these shelves?
>>>>>
>>>>> I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was
>>>>> feeding an entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF
>>>>>> funding from Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census 
>>>>>> blocks
>>>>>> they took funding for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect
>>>>>> them to be able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to
>>>>>> customers in range of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, 
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> may see up to 40/1 Mbps speeds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson <
>>>>>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As someone already said, its clearly and E3.
>>>>>>> https://www.calix.com/systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>&g

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Jason McKemie]

You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big telco, so
I wouldn't hold my breath.

On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> i think that bank account may be closed very soon
>
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','m...@amplex.net');>> wrote:
>
>> Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and the
>> only approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to
>> orange trash bags.   Except when those are out of stock.
>>
>> Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need
>> more support money to fix the plant.  The only question is if they do it
>> this year or next.
>>
>> Mark Radabaugh
>> WISPA FCC Committee Chair
>> fcc_ch...@wispa.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','fcc_ch...@wispa.org');>
>> 419-261-5996 <(419)%20261-5996>
>>
>> On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af...@ics-il.net');>> wrote:
>>
>> They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','darin.ste...@mnwifi.com');>>
>> *To: *af@afmug.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','af@afmug.com');>
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:49:50 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
>>
>> These should all be fiber fed. Any new DSLAM's with CAF funding are very
>> likely fiber fed. They just can't support the bandwidth requirements with
>> only bonded T1's anymore.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:34 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','j...@kyneticwifi.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>> One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps link
>>> to each line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything short
>>> of at least a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the
>>> E7-2s I've used in the past though :)
>>>
>>> On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
>>> li...@packetflux.com
>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','li...@packetflux.com');>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Out of curiosity, do  you know how are they feeding these shelves?
>>>>
>>>> I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was
>>>> feeding an entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','darin.ste...@mnwifi.com');>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF funding
>>>>> from Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks they
>>>>> took funding for.
>>>>>
>>>>> If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect them
>>>>> to be able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to
>>>>> customers in range of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, 
>>>>> they
>>>>> may see up to 40/1 Mbps speeds.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson <
>>>>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com
>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','cpeter...@portnetworks.com');>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> As someone already said, its clearly and E3.
>>>>>> https://www.calix.com/systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:18

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

i think that bank account may be closed very soon

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh <m...@amplex.net> wrote:

> Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and the
> only approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to
> orange trash bags.   Except when those are out of stock.
>
> Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need more
> support money to fix the plant.  The only question is if they do it this
> year or next.
>
> Mark Radabaugh
> WISPA FCC Committee Chair
> fcc_ch...@wispa.org
> 419-261-5996 <(419)%20261-5996>
>
> On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
> They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:49:50 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
>
> These should all be fiber fed. Any new DSLAM's with CAF funding are very
> likely fiber fed. They just can't support the bandwidth requirements with
> only bonded T1's anymore.
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:34 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
> wrote:
>
>> One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps link to
>> each line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything short of
>> at least a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the E7-2s
>> I've used in the past though :)
>>
>> On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Out of curiosity, do  you know how are they feeding these shelves?
>>>
>>> I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was
>>> feeding an entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF funding
>>>> from Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks they
>>>> took funding for.
>>>>
>>>> If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect them
>>>> to be able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to
>>>> customers in range of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, they
>>>> may see up to 40/1 Mbps speeds.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson <
>>>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As someone already said, its clearly and E3.  https://www.calix.com/
>>>>> systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:18 PM, George Skorup <
>>>>> george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Regen would be my guess.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/31/2017 2:45 PM, Tim Reichhart wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it got fiber ran into it for remote dslam to provide customers vdsl2
>>>>>>> along that route.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
>>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>>>>> Date: 01/31/17 03:28 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Calix.  I'd guess G.Fast
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 31, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Josh

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Ken Hohhof]

For people at the bottom end of the economic scale (thinking about seniors on 
Social Security), it seems to me the ideal combination is a Lifeline cellphone 
and an OTA TV antenna with a DVR.  The cellphone eliminates all worries about 
crappy copper, power outages, etc. and it works in the house, out in the yard, 
or at the doctor’s office.  This was at odds with the Wheeler FCC agenda to 
move everyone’s phone and video to a high cost IP based network of the future.  
But now Wheeler is out, at least for 4 years.

 

Gigabit fiber and 4K streaming TV is great for people who can afford it, but 
not really a great solution for the little old widow lady trying to live in a 
rental house in the country with no income other than Social Security.  The sad 
thing is many of these people have moved out from the city or suburbs and away 
from relatives who could assist with their care, because they can’t afford the 
property taxes and other high costs of living in the more populated areas.  The 
nearest pharmacy may be 25 miles away, so they have prescriptions delivered by 
mail.  They worry about the “fallen and can’t get up” scenario.

 

Meanwhile I keep hearing that all our economic problems are due to lazy baby 
boomers sponging off the welfare system, when in fact a lot of them are dipping 
into their 401K savings because they have unemployed 25 year old children and 
grandchildren living in their basements.  When I was 25, it was drilled into us 
to take full advantage of employer provided benefits like insurance, tuition 
reimbursement, and 401K contribution matching.  The retirement funds 
accumulated by that generation provided a big cushion to the US economy during 
the decade long “Great Recession”.  I’m sure there are 20-somethings today who 
max out their 401K or IRA contributions, but a lot of them seem don’t seem to 
have savings to cover a 1 week layoff, much less their eventual retirement.  We 
live in the prepaid phone era, where you decide at the beginning of each month 
whether you can afford your phone that month.

 

I just don’t understand why so many people describe our situation as a bunch of 
lazy baby boomers sponging off the hard working millennials and Gen-Xers.  Ask 
the 70 year old guy retrieving carts in the Walmart parking lot how he’s 
enjoying retirement.  I think it’s probably good that newer generations are 
less focused on material possession than their predecessors, but no one seems 
to be preaching the doctrine of saving for retirement anymore (except that 
company with commercials about “orange money”).

 

The politicians who want to privatize Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security 
but say everything will be OK with high-deductible insurance and Health Savings 
Accounts, I don’t think they’ve ever met a poor (non-rich) person.  The idea 
that you can set aside a bunch of pre-tax money each month to pay your medical 
costs, that’s just ridiculous when you don’t even make enough to pay income 
tax.  For somebody with no income other than Social Security, pre-tax and 
post-tax is the same thing.  It’s like trying to motivate start-up companies 
via tax exemptions.  Most of them would LOVE to have income tax as their #1 
worry.  In the startup phase, it’s all about having enough cashflow to make 
payroll.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 9:26 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

 

 

We have just purchased a WISP in a predominately centurylink area.  We are 
hearing about the towns fed by t1sugh

Fortunately we have just inherited some wireless in those towns

- Original Message - 

From: Forrest Christian (List Account) <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>  

To: af <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:29 PM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

 

Out of curiosity, do  you know how are they feeding these shelves?   

I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was feeding an 
entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's.   

 

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com 
<mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> > wrote:

Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF funding from 
Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks they took 
funding for. 

 

If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect them to be 
able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to customers in range 
of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, they may see up to 40/1 
Mbps speeds.

 

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson <cpeter...@portnetworks.com 
<mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com> > wrote:

As someone already said, its clearly and E3.  
https://www.calix.com/systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html

 

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:18 PM, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com 
<mailto:georg

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

We have just purchased a WISP in a predominately centurylink area.  We are 
hearing about the towns fed by t1sugh
Fortunately we have just inherited some wireless in those towns
  - Original Message - 
  From: Forrest Christian (List Account) 
  To: af 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:29 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these


  Out of curiosity, do  you know how are they feeding these shelves?   


  I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was feeding an 
entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's.   



  On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> wrote:

Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF funding from 
Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks they took 
funding for.


If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect them to 
be able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to customers in 
range of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, they may see up to 
40/1 Mbps speeds.


On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson <cpeter...@portnetworks.com> 
wrote:

  As someone already said, its clearly and E3.  
https://www.calix.com/systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html


  On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:18 PM, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com> 
wrote:

Regen would be my guess.

On 1/31/2017 2:45 PM, Tim Reichhart wrote:

  it got fiber ran into it for remote dslam to provide customers vdsl2 
along that route.

  Tim

  -Original Message-

From: "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Date: 01/31/17 03:28 PM
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

Calix.  I'd guess G.Fast

Sent from my iPhone


  On Jan 31, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Josh Corson 
<j...@bluebitnetworks.com> wrote:


  Does anyone know what these are? They are popping up on fairly 
rural
  areas of our coverage areas and on the state highways.

  Thanks

  
  










  -- 

  Carl Peterson


  PORT NETWORKS

  401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

  Baltimore, MD 21202

  (410) 637-3707 






-- 

Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook



  -- 

Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com

   

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Ken Hohhof]

DSL is a strange world.  OFDM is instead called DMT, and self-FEXT cancellation 
is called vectoring.  And you get standards like G.fast and G.vector.  It’s 
like a superhero universe.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Stefan Englhardt
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 8:44 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

 

VDSL with vectoring easy does 100Mbit/s. We see 40 over a km. Depends on the 
copper.

On short hops we see up to 135x63. DSLAMs are cheaper than 450m. So where it is 
possible to use copper it is a good option. 

 

Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Chuck McCown
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 1. Februar 2017 15:21
An: af@afmug.com
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

 

We see up to 50 Mbps on Calix VDSL2 on the shorter loops.  That case looks like 
it could be the v.fast box too.  They have one that looks like that and they 
claim up to 200 Mbps on shorter loops for that technology.  

 

From: Josh Reynolds 

Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 10:34 PM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

 

One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps link to each 
line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything short of at least 
a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the E7-2s I've used in 
the past though :)

 

On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
<li...@packetflux.com <mailto:li...@packetflux.com> > wrote:

Out of curiosity, do  you know how are they feeding these shelves?   

I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was feeding an 
entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's.   

 

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com 
<mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> > wrote:

Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF funding from 
Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks they took 
funding for. 

 

If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect them to be 
able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to customers in range 
of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, they may see up to 40/1 
Mbps speeds.

 

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson <cpeter...@portnetworks.com 
<mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com> > wrote:

As someone already said, its clearly and E3.  
https://www.calix.com/systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html

 

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:18 PM, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com 
<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com> > wrote:

Regen would be my guess.

On 1/31/2017 2:45 PM, Tim Reichhart wrote:

it got fiber ran into it for remote dslam to provide customers vdsl2 along that 
route.

Tim

-Original Message-

From: "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com 
<mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com> >
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Date: 01/31/17 03:28 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

Calix.  I'd guess G.Fast

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 31, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Josh Corson <j...@bluebitnetworks.com 
<mailto:j...@bluebitnetworks.com> > wrote:

Does anyone know what these are? They are popping up on fairly rural
areas of our coverage areas and on the state highways.

Thanks




 

 





 

-- 

Carl Peterson

PORT NETWORKS

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707 <tel:(410)%20637-3707>  





 

-- 

Darin Steffl 

Minnesota WiFi

www.mnwifi.com <http://www.mnwifi.com/> 

507-634-WiFi

 <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>  Like us on Facebook 
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> 




-- 


Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602

forre...@imach.com <mailto:forre...@imach.com>  |  <http://www.packetflux.com/> 
http://www.packetflux.com

 <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>   <http://facebook.com/packetflux>   
<http://twitter.com/@packetflux> 

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Harold Bledsoe]

Yeah like 1.5Gbps aggregate real throughput on a pair g.fast.  :-)

On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 9:29 AM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

> On short loops, VDSL2 can go up to 200 - 300 megabit. v.fast and it's
> derivatives should be able to approach gig. That's short loops, though.
> MDU, individual city blocks, etc.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------
> *From: *"Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 1, 2017 8:20:48 AM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
>
> We see up to 50 Mbps on Calix VDSL2 on the shorter loops.  That case looks
> like it could be the v.fast box too.  They have one that looks like that
> and they claim up to 200 Mbps on shorter loops for that technology.
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 31, 2017 10:34 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
>
> One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps link to
> each line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything short of
> at least a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the E7-2s
> I've used in the past though :)
>
> On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
> Out of curiosity, do  you know how are they feeding these shelves?
>
> I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was feeding
> an entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's.
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
> wrote:
>
> Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF funding
> from Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks they
> took funding for.
>
> If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect them to
> be able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to customers
> in range of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, they may see
> up to 40/1 Mbps speeds.
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson <cpeter...@portnetworks.com
> > wrote:
>
> As someone already said, its clearly and E3.
> https://www.calix.com/systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:18 PM, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com>
> wrote:
>
> Regen would be my guess.
>
> On 1/31/2017 2:45 PM, Tim Reichhart wrote:
>
> it got fiber ran into it for remote dslam to provide customers vdsl2 along
> that route.
>
> Tim
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Date: 01/31/17 03:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
>
> Calix.  I'd guess G.Fast
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 31, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Josh Corson <j...@bluebitnetworks.com> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know what these are? They are popping up on fairly rural
> areas of our coverage areas and on the state highways.
>
> Thanks
> 
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Carl Peterson
>
> *PORT NETWORKS*
>
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>
> Baltimore, MD 21202
>
> (410) 637-3707 <%28410%29%20637-3707>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Darin Steffl
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com
> 507-634-WiFi
> <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> Like us on Facebook
> <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>  <http://facebook.com/packetflux>
>   <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Stefan Englhardt]

VDSL with vectoring easy does 100Mbit/s. We see 40 over a km. Depends on the 
copper.

On short hops we see up to 135x63. DSLAMs are cheaper than 450m. So where it is 
possible to use copper it is a good option.



Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Chuck McCown
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 1. Februar 2017 15:21
An: af@afmug.com
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these



We see up to 50 Mbps on Calix VDSL2 on the shorter loops.  That case looks like 
it could be the v.fast box too.  They have one that looks like that and they 
claim up to 200 Mbps on shorter loops for that technology.



From: Josh Reynolds

Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 10:34 PM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these



One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps link to each 
line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything short of at least 
a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the E7-2s I've used in 
the past though :)



On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
<li...@packetflux.com <mailto:li...@packetflux.com> > wrote:

Out of curiosity, do  you know how are they feeding these shelves?

I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was feeding an 
entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's.



On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com 
<mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> > wrote:

Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF funding from 
Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks they took 
funding for.



If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect them to be 
able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to customers in range 
of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, they may see up to 40/1 
Mbps speeds.



On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson <cpeter...@portnetworks.com 
<mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com> > wrote:

As someone already said, its clearly and E3.  
https://www.calix.com/systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html



On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:18 PM, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com 
<mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com> > wrote:

Regen would be my guess.

On 1/31/2017 2:45 PM, Tim Reichhart wrote:

it got fiber ran into it for remote dslam to provide customers vdsl2 along that 
route.

Tim

-Original Message-

From: "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com 
<mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com> >
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Date: 01/31/17 03:28 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

Calix.  I'd guess G.Fast

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 31, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Josh Corson <j...@bluebitnetworks.com 
<mailto:j...@bluebitnetworks.com> > wrote:

Does anyone know what these are? They are popping up on fairly rural
areas of our coverage areas and on the state highways.

Thanks














--

Carl Peterson

PORT NETWORKS

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707 <tel:(410)%20637-3707>







--

Darin Steffl

Minnesota WiFi

www.mnwifi.com <http://www.mnwifi.com/>

507-634-WiFi

 <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>  Like us on Facebook 
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>




--


Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602

forre...@imach.com <mailto:forre...@imach.com>  |  <http://www.packetflux.com/> 
http://www.packetflux.com

 <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>   <http://facebook.com/packetflux>   
<http://twitter.com/@packetflux>

  <http://ws-stats.appspot.com/t/pixel.png?e=setup_page_outlook_compose>   
<http://ws-stats.appspot.com/t/pixel.png?e=setup_page_outlook_active=e965778f9a351fad7a8a860dffc144ce>
   
<http://ws-stats.appspot.com/t/pixel.png?e=setup_page_outlook_active=e965778f9a351fad7a8a860dffc144ce>

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Mike Hammett]

On short loops, VDSL2 can go up to 200 - 300 megabit. v.fast and it's 
derivatives should be able to approach gig. That's short loops, though. MDU, 
individual city blocks, etc. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 1, 2017 8:20:48 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 




We see up to 50 Mbps on Calix VDSL2 on the shorter loops. That case looks like 
it could be the v.fast box too. They have one that looks like that and they 
claim up to 200 Mbps on shorter loops for that technology. 




From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 10:34 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 


One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps link to each 
line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything short of at least 
a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the E7-2s I've used in 
the past though :) 


On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" < 
li...@packetflux.com > wrote: 




Out of curiosity, do you know how are they feeding these shelves? 

I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was feeding an 
entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's. 



On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > 
wrote: 



Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF funding from 
Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks they took 
funding for. 

If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect them to be 
able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to customers in range 
of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, they may see up to 40/1 
Mbps speeds. 




On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson < cpeter...@portnetworks.com > 
wrote: 



As someone already said, its clearly and E3. 
https://www.calix.com/systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html 




On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:18 PM, George Skorup < george.sko...@cbcast.com > 
wrote: 


Regen would be my guess. 

On 1/31/2017 2:45 PM, Tim Reichhart wrote: 


it got fiber ran into it for remote dslam to provide customers vdsl2 along that 
route. 

Tim 

-Original Message- 


From: "Carl Peterson" < cpeter...@portnetworks.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Date: 01/31/17 03:28 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 

Calix. I'd guess G.Fast 

Sent from my iPhone 



On Jan 31, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Josh Corson < j...@bluebitnetworks.com > wrote: 



Does anyone know what these are? They are popping up on fairly rural 
areas of our coverage areas and on the state highways. 

Thanks 
 
 













-- 



Carl Peterson 

PORT NETWORKS 
401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 
Baltimore, MD 21202 
(410) 637-3707 




-- 


Darin Steffl 
Minnesota WiFi 
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi 
Like us on Facebook 




-- 






Forrest Christian CEO , PacketFlux Technologies, Inc. 

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com 

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Chuck McCown]

We see up to 50 Mbps on Calix VDSL2 on the shorter loops.  That case looks like 
it could be the v.fast box too.  They have one that looks like that and they 
claim up to 200 Mbps on shorter loops for that technology.  

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 10:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps link to each 
line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything short of at least 
a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the E7-2s I've used in 
the past though :)

On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
<li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

  Out of curiosity, do  you know how are they feeding these shelves?   


  I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was feeding an 
entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's.   


  On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> wrote:

Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF funding from 
Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks they took 
funding for. 

If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect them to 
be able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to customers in 
range of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, they may see up to 
40/1 Mbps speeds.

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson <cpeter...@portnetworks.com> 
wrote:

  As someone already said, its clearly and E3.  
https://www.calix.com/systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html

  On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:18 PM, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com> 
wrote:

Regen would be my guess.

On 1/31/2017 2:45 PM, Tim Reichhart wrote:

  it got fiber ran into it for remote dslam to provide customers vdsl2 
along that route.

  Tim

  -Original Message-

From: "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Date: 01/31/17 03:28 PM
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

Calix.  I'd guess G.Fast

Sent from my iPhone


  On Jan 31, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Josh Corson 
<j...@bluebitnetworks.com> wrote:


  Does anyone know what these are? They are popping up on fairly 
rural
  areas of our coverage areas and on the state highways.

  Thanks

  
  









  -- 

  Carl Peterson


  PORT NETWORKS

  401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

  Baltimore, MD 21202

  (410) 637-3707 





-- 

Darin Steffl 
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook



  -- 

Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com

   

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Mark Radabaugh]

Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and the only 
approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to orange trash 
bags.   Except when those are out of stock.

Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need more 
support money to fix the plant.  The only question is if they do it this year 
or next.

Mark Radabaugh
WISPA FCC Committee Chair
fcc_ch...@wispa.org
419-261-5996

> On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
> 
> They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>  <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> 
> 
>  <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> From: "Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:49:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
> 
> These should all be fiber fed. Any new DSLAM's with CAF funding are very 
> likely fiber fed. They just can't support the bandwidth requirements with 
> only bonded T1's anymore. 
> 
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:34 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com 
> <mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:
> One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps link to 
> each line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything short of 
> at least a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the E7-2s 
> I've used in the past though :)
> 
> On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
> <li...@packetflux.com <mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:
> Out of curiosity, do  you know how are they feeding these shelves?   
> 
> I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was feeding an 
> entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's.   
> 
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com 
> <mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>> wrote:
> Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF funding from 
> Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks they took 
> funding for.
> 
> If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect them to be 
> able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to customers in 
> range of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, they may see up to 
> 40/1 Mbps speeds.
> 
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson <cpeter...@portnetworks.com 
> <mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>> wrote:
> As someone already said, its clearly and E3.  
> https://www.calix.com/systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html 
> <https://www.calix.com/systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html>
> 
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:18 PM, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com 
> <mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:
> Regen would be my guess.
> 
> On 1/31/2017 2:45 PM, Tim Reichhart wrote:
> it got fiber ran into it for remote dslam to provide customers vdsl2 along 
> that route.
> 
> Tim
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com 
> <mailto:cpeter...@portnetworks.com>>
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Date: 01/31/17 03:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
> 
> Calix.  I'd guess G.Fast
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jan 31, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Josh Corson <j...@bluebitnetworks.com 
> <mailto:j...@bluebitnetworks.com>> wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know what these are? They are popping up on fairly rural
> areas of our coverage areas and on the state highways.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Carl Peterson
> PORT NETWORKS
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
> Baltimore, MD 21202
> (410) 637-3707 <tel:%28410%29%20637-3707> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Darin Steffl
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com <http://www.mnwifi.com/>
> 507-634-WiFi
>  <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> Like us on Facebook 
> <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>
> 
> 
> -- 
> Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.
> Tel: 406-449-3345 <> | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> forre...@imach.com <mailto:forre...@imach.com> | http://www.packetflux.com 
> <http://www.packetflux.com/>
>  <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>  <http://facebook.com/packetflux>  
> <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Darin Steffl
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com <http://www.mnwifi.com/>
> 507-634-WiFi
>  <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> Like us on Facebook 
> <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Mike Hammett]

They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:49:50 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 


These should all be fiber fed. Any new DSLAM's with CAF funding are very likely 
fiber fed. They just can't support the bandwidth requirements with only bonded 
T1's anymore. 


On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:34 PM, Josh Reynolds < j...@kyneticwifi.com > wrote: 



One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps link to each 
line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything short of at least 
a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the E7-2s I've used in 
the past though :) 




On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" < 
li...@packetflux.com > wrote: 




Out of curiosity, do you know how are they feeding these shelves? 

I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was feeding an 
entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's. 



On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl < darin.ste...@mnwifi.com > 
wrote: 



Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF funding from 
Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks they took 
funding for. 


If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect them to be 
able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to customers in range 
of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, they may see up to 40/1 
Mbps speeds. 




On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson < cpeter...@portnetworks.com > 
wrote: 



As someone already said, its clearly and E3. 
https://www.calix.com/systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html 




On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:18 PM, George Skorup < george.sko...@cbcast.com > 
wrote: 


Regen would be my guess. 

On 1/31/2017 2:45 PM, Tim Reichhart wrote: 


it got fiber ran into it for remote dslam to provide customers vdsl2 along that 
route. 

Tim 

-Original Message- 


From: "Carl Peterson" < cpeter...@portnetworks.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Date: 01/31/17 03:28 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 

Calix. I'd guess G.Fast 

Sent from my iPhone 



On Jan 31, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Josh Corson < j...@bluebitnetworks.com > wrote: 



Does anyone know what these are? They are popping up on fairly rural 
areas of our coverage areas and on the state highways. 

Thanks 
 
 














-- 



Carl Peterson 

PORT NETWORKS 
401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 
Baltimore, MD 21202 
(410) 637-3707 





-- 


Darin Steffl 
Minnesota WiFi 
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi 
Like us on Facebook 




-- 





Forrest Christian CEO , PacketFlux Technologies, Inc. 

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602 
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com 











-- 


Darin Steffl 
Minnesota WiFi 
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi 
Like us on Facebook 

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Darin Steffl]

These should all be fiber fed. Any new DSLAM's with CAF funding are very
likely fiber fed. They just can't support the bandwidth requirements with
only bonded T1's anymore.

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:34 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
wrote:

> One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps link to
> each line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything short of
> at least a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the E7-2s
> I've used in the past though :)
>
> On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> Out of curiosity, do  you know how are they feeding these shelves?
>>
>> I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was feeding
>> an entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF funding
>>> from Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks they
>>> took funding for.
>>>
>>> If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect them
>>> to be able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to
>>> customers in range of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, they
>>> may see up to 40/1 Mbps speeds.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson <
>>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> As someone already said, its clearly and E3.
>>>> https://www.calix.com/systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:18 PM, George Skorup <
>>>> george.sko...@cbcast.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Regen would be my guess.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/31/2017 2:45 PM, Tim Reichhart wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> it got fiber ran into it for remote dslam to provide customers vdsl2
>>>>>> along that route.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>>>> Date: 01/31/17 03:28 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Calix.  I'd guess G.Fast
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 31, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Josh Corson <j...@bluebitnetworks.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Does anyone know what these are? They are popping up on fairly rural
>>>>>>>> areas of our coverage areas and on the state highways.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Carl Peterson
>>>>
>>>> *PORT NETWORKS*
>>>>
>>>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>>>>
>>>> Baltimore, MD 21202
>>>>
>>>> (410) 637-3707
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Darin Steffl
>>> Minnesota WiFi
>>> www.mnwifi.com
>>> 507-634-WiFi
>>> <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> Like us on Facebook
>>> <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>
>> <http://facebook.com/packetflux>  <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
>>
>>


-- 
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> Like us on Facebook
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Josh Reynolds]

One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps link to
each line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything short of
at least a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the E7-2s
I've used in the past though :)

On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Out of curiosity, do  you know how are they feeding these shelves?
>
> I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was feeding
> an entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's.
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF funding
>> from Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks they
>> took funding for.
>>
>> If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect them to
>> be able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to customers
>> in range of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, they may see
>> up to 40/1 Mbps speeds.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson <
>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>
>>> As someone already said, its clearly and E3.
>>> https://www.calix.com/systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:18 PM, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Regen would be my guess.
>>>>
>>>> On 1/31/2017 2:45 PM, Tim Reichhart wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> it got fiber ran into it for remote dslam to provide customers vdsl2
>>>>> along that route.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tim
>>>>>
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>>> Date: 01/31/17 03:28 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Calix.  I'd guess G.Fast
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 31, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Josh Corson <j...@bluebitnetworks.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does anyone know what these are? They are popping up on fairly rural
>>>>>>> areas of our coverage areas and on the state highways.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Carl Peterson
>>>
>>> *PORT NETWORKS*
>>>
>>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>>>
>>> Baltimore, MD 21202
>>>
>>> (410) 637-3707
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Darin Steffl
>> Minnesota WiFi
>> www.mnwifi.com
>> 507-634-WiFi
>> <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> Like us on Facebook
>> <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>  <http://facebook.com/packetflux>
>   <http://twitter.com/@packetflux>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Out of curiosity, do  you know how are they feeding these shelves?

I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was feeding
an entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's.

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
wrote:

> Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF funding
> from Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks they
> took funding for.
>
> If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect them to
> be able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to customers
> in range of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, they may see
> up to 40/1 Mbps speeds.
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson <cpeter...@portnetworks.com
> > wrote:
>
>> As someone already said, its clearly and E3.
>> https://www.calix.com/systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:18 PM, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Regen would be my guess.
>>>
>>> On 1/31/2017 2:45 PM, Tim Reichhart wrote:
>>>
>>>> it got fiber ran into it for remote dslam to provide customers vdsl2
>>>> along that route.
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>
>>>>> From: "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>> Date: 01/31/17 03:28 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
>>>>>
>>>>> Calix.  I'd guess G.Fast
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 31, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Josh Corson <j...@bluebitnetworks.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does anyone know what these are? They are popping up on fairly rural
>>>>>> areas of our coverage areas and on the state highways.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Carl Peterson
>>
>> *PORT NETWORKS*
>>
>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>>
>> Baltimore, MD 21202
>>
>> (410) 637-3707
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Darin Steffl
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com
> 507-634-WiFi
> <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> Like us on Facebook
> <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>
>



-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian>  <http://facebook.com/packetflux>
<http://twitter.com/@packetflux>

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Darin Steffl]

Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF funding from
Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks they took
funding for.

If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect them to
be able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to customers
in range of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, they may see
up to 40/1 Mbps speeds.

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
wrote:

> As someone already said, its clearly and E3.  https://www.calix.com/
> systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:18 PM, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Regen would be my guess.
>>
>> On 1/31/2017 2:45 PM, Tim Reichhart wrote:
>>
>>> it got fiber ran into it for remote dslam to provide customers vdsl2
>>> along that route.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>>
>>>> From: "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>> Date: 01/31/17 03:28 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
>>>>
>>>> Calix.  I'd guess G.Fast
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 31, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Josh Corson <j...@bluebitnetworks.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone know what these are? They are popping up on fairly rural
>>>>> areas of our coverage areas and on the state highways.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Carl Peterson
>
> *PORT NETWORKS*
>
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
>
> Baltimore, MD 21202
>
> (410) 637-3707
>



-- 
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> Like us on Facebook
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Carl Peterson]

As someone already said, its clearly and E3.
https://www.calix.com/systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:18 PM, George Skorup <george.sko...@cbcast.com>
wrote:

> Regen would be my guess.
>
> On 1/31/2017 2:45 PM, Tim Reichhart wrote:
>
>> it got fiber ran into it for remote dslam to provide customers vdsl2
>> along that route.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> -Original Message-
>>
>>> From: "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Date: 01/31/17 03:28 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
>>>
>>> Calix.  I'd guess G.Fast
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 31, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Josh Corson <j...@bluebitnetworks.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know what these are? They are popping up on fairly rural
>>>> areas of our coverage areas and on the state highways.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>
>>
>


-- 

Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[George Skorup]

Regen would be my guess.

On 1/31/2017 2:45 PM, Tim Reichhart wrote:

it got fiber ran into it for remote dslam to provide customers vdsl2 along that 
route.

Tim

-Original Message-

From: "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Date: 01/31/17 03:28 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

Calix.  I'd guess G.Fast

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 31, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Josh Corson <j...@bluebitnetworks.com> wrote:

Does anyone know what these are? They are popping up on fairly rural
areas of our coverage areas and on the state highways.

Thanks

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Tim Reichhart]

it got fiber ran into it for remote dslam to provide customers vdsl2 along that 
route.

Tim

-Original Message- 
> From: "Carl Peterson" <cpeter...@portnetworks.com> 
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Date: 01/31/17 03:28 PM 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these 
> 
> Calix.  I'd guess G.Fast 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Jan 31, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Josh Corson <j...@bluebitnetworks.com> wrote:
> > 
> > Does anyone know what these are? They are popping up on fairly rural
> > areas of our coverage areas and on the state highways.
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > 

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Carl Peterson]

Calix.  I'd guess G.Fast 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 31, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Josh Corson  wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know what these are? They are popping up on fairly rural
> areas of our coverage areas and on the state highways.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these

[Eric Muehleisen]

Calix E3 DSL

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Josh Corson 
wrote:

> Does anyone know what these are? They are popping up on fairly rural
> areas of our coverage areas and on the state highways.
>
> Thanks
>