subject:"\[AFMUG\] SAD day"

If the search engine goes away, so does everything else they are 
involved in. None of the other "products" are profitable on their own.


Travis


On 2/2/2016 10:22 AM, Sam Kirsch wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Google_products
There's a little more to them then just a Search Engine ;)
I don't see how anything changes with Apple not being around either.  
There's absolutely nothing in an Apple product that's super 
groundbreaking... Many companies had already attempted to combine a 
PDA and a Cell Phone long before the iPhone, they just did it the most 
mass marketable way first.  And that goes for just able every Apple 
product I can think of.  MP3 players existed.  Music platforms 
existed.  They just weren't unified and mass marketed in the same 
way... so, Apple really just copied a bunch of other guys too (and has 
been doing that since the company's inception, the mouse, the 
GUI, etc) NOTHING CHANGES ;)

*-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net 
<http://www.plexicomm.net>**

Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688*
*Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | *sam...@plexicomm.net* 
<mailto:sam...@plexicomm.net>*

-- Original Message --
From: "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net <mailto:t...@ida.net>>
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/2/2016 12:22:36 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the 
computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and 
the music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying 
Yahoo, Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They 
aren't a "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, 
just like Facebook.


Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard 
work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new 
or groundbreaking.


Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than 
Apple with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy 
consumer electronics.


Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's 
information and communications. When you consider the value of 
those, it's not just the most valuable company in matters of money. 
The founders had incredible foresight in addition to their 
intelligence and hard work.


On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net 
<mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:



http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money.
It's run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's
all just electrons."
~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19
years old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

I think Travis' APPL shares are the source of the statements =)


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:

>
> http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/012815/how-steve-jobs-changed-world.asp
>
> I'm not sure "laughable" would be the correct term the rest of the
> world doesn't agree with you, at all.
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 2/2/2016 10:34 AM, Sam Kirsch wrote:
>
> Tablets would most certainly be around, companies started to try and make
> them in the 1980s.  MP3 players too.  All these things existed well before
> the iPod and the iPhone, and multiple companies had been working on them
> already for decades.  These things are all just glorified PDA's, the Palm
> Pilot I had in 1998 pretty must disproves any "X wouldn't be around without
> Y company"  Technology is technology and progress is progress... there's
> nothing groundbreaking here about Apple AT ALL.  My first couple PDA's had
> WiFi and GPS and there was definitely a Palm Pilot PDA/Phone combo out
> around the time Blackberry's started to appear a lot more, this is all
> before the iPhone it may be just before or around when the iPod first
> came out though.  To think that technology wouldn't have made that leap to
> full modern smartphones and tablets on its own without the likes of Steve
> Jobs is just laughable.
>
>
>
> *-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support Plexicomm - Internet Solutions |
> <http://www.plexicomm.net>www.plexicomm.net <http://www.plexicomm.net>*
> * Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 <1.866.759.4678%20x109> | Fax:
> 1.866.852.4688 <1.866.852.4688>*
> *Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 <1.866.759.9713> | sam...@plexicomm.net
> <sam...@plexicomm.net>*
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/2/2016 12:28:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>
>
> The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would change?
> Really???
>
> Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably
> won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without
> them.  What else do they have?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>
>> At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the
>> computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the
>> music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo,
>> Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a
>> "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
>> Facebook.
>>
>> Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.
>>
>> Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard
>> work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or
>> groundbreaking.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>> On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>>
>> I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple
>> with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer
>> electronics.
>>
>> Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
>> information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's
>> not just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had
>> incredible foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson < <t...@ida.net>
>> t...@ida.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> <http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113>
>>> http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113
>>>
>>> "The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run
>>> by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
>>> ~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)
>>>
>>> Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years
>>> old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

I don't believe that is the case. It only appears that way to the 
uninitiated observer.


bp


On 2/2/2016 10:23 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:

If you take away their single "webpage", all the other pieces fall.

Travis


On 2/2/2016 10:28 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

If that's what you think that Google is, you have a lot to learn.

I listened to a discussion on the Nightly Business Report last night 
about this very topic. The general consensus was that Facebook is 
what you want for what's hot "now". Google is what you want if you're 
looking beyond the next few years.



bp


On 2/2/2016 9:09 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
I just have an irritation that a company that is literally just a 
webpage is now worth more than "real" companies like Apple or GM or 
Wells Fargo... it totally boggles my mind.


Facebook will take over Google in the next few years... so then the 
question is, what will take over Facebook 10 years from now?

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Sure; I didn't say his contribution was laughable!  I said that to think 
we wouldn't have tablets today without the likes of Steve Jobs is an 
absolutely insane notion.  I'd also say they pushed the bar and then 
faltered, because even before he stopped being able to contribute to the 
company they were rapidly loosing market share to devices that were 
better and far more diverse and customizable to begin with.  If we lived 
in a Jobs only world, I think that creativity would eventually be 
stifled and diversity marginalized.  So while he kicked things up a 
notch to begin with, I don't think it would have lasted, passing away or 
not.


Plus, his attitude and approach failed MISERABLY twice before, once with 
the way he tried to drive the Lisa team, and again with the way he tried 
to drive the Macintosh team and ultimately got him fired for it.  Third 
time is the charm that makes you a sycophant's god I guess!


-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | sam...@plexicomm.net



-- Original Message --
From: "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/2/2016 1:51:45 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day


I think you are correct Sam.

Steve Jobs did make his contribution though, and he did it by being a 
bigger jerk than all the other bosses.  He would tell his people, "You 
can do this better," and didn't accept anything that wasn't better.  
The result was that when you put the iPhone next to any other phone 
that was available at the time and it was way better than the others.


It all would have happened at other companies in a different time and a 
different way, so yes you're still correct.




On 2/2/2016 12:34 PM, Sam Kirsch wrote:
Tablets would most certainly be around, companies started to try and 
make them in the 1980s.  MP3 players too.  All these things existed 
well before the iPod and the iPhone, and multiple companies had been 
working on them already for decades.  These things are all just 
glorified PDA's, the Palm Pilot I had in 1998 pretty must disproves 
any "X wouldn't be around without Y company"  Technology is technology 
and progress is progress... there's nothing groundbreaking here about 
Apple AT ALL.  My first couple PDA's had WiFi and GPS and there was 
definitely a Palm Pilot PDA/Phone combo out around the time 
Blackberry's started to appear a lot more, this is all before the 
iPhone it may be just before or around when the iPod first came 
out though.  To think that technology wouldn't have made that leap to 
full modern smartphones and tablets on its own without the likes of 
Steve Jobs is just laughable.



-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | sam...@plexicomm.net



-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/2/2016 12:28:15 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would 
change?  Really???


Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets 
probably won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to 
fruition without them.  What else do they have?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> wrote:
At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the 
computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, 
and the music world. Google created a search engine (actually 
copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the 
time). They aren't a "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are 
a webpage, just like Facebook.


Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard 
work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new 
or groundbreaking.


Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than 
Apple with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / 
crappy consumer electronics.


Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's 
information and communications. When you consider the value of 
those, it's not just the most valuable company in matters of money. 
The founders had incredible foresight in addition to their 
intelligence and hard work.


On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> 
wrote:

http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's 
run by little one

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Naw... I made my money on AAPL shares over a year ago... and some on 
Facebook and even Netflix... but I got out of the market about six 
months ago. ;)


Travis


On 2/2/2016 11:34 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

I think Travis' APPL shares are the source of the statements =)


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net 
<mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:



http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/012815/how-steve-jobs-changed-world.asp

I'm not sure "laughable" would be the correct term the rest of
the world doesn't agree with you, at all.

Travis


On 2/2/2016 10:34 AM, Sam Kirsch wrote:

Tablets would most certainly be around, companies started to try
and make them in the 1980s.  MP3 players too.  All these things
existed well before the iPod and the iPhone, and multiple
companies had been working on them already for decades.  These
things are all just glorified PDA's, the Palm Pilot I had in 1998
pretty must disproves any "X wouldn't be around without Y
company"  Technology is technology and progress is progress...
there's nothing groundbreaking here about Apple AT ALL.  My first
couple PDA's had WiFi and GPS and there was definitely a Palm
Pilot PDA/Phone combo out around the time Blackberry's started to
appear a lot more, this is all before the iPhone it may be
just before or around when the iPod first came out though.  To
think that technology wouldn't have made that leap to full modern
smartphones and tablets on its own without the likes of Steve
Jobs is just laughable.
*-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
<http://www.plexicomm.net>**
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 <tel:1.866.759.4678%20x109> | Fax:
1.866.852.4688 *
*Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713  |
*sam...@plexicomm.net* <mailto:sam...@plexicomm.net>*
-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/2/2016 12:28:15 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day


The world's most popular site and you don't think the world
would change?  Really???

Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets
probably won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to
fruition without them.  What else do they have?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net
<mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:

At least Apple makes products... products that literally
changed the computing world, the phone world, the retail
world, created apps, and the music world. Google created a
search engine (actually copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, Altavista
and several others at the time). They aren't a "product".
They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
Facebook.

Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence
and hard work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't
create anything new or groundbreaking.

Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position
than Apple with their overpriced yet restricted /
non-upgradable / crappy consumer electronics.

Google is making themselves the curator of access to the
world's information and communications. When you consider
the value of those, it's not just the most valuable company
in matters of money. The founders had incredible foresight
in addition to their intelligence and hard work.

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson
<t...@ida.net <mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:


http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or
money. It's run by little ones and zeroes, little bits
of data. It's all just electrons."
~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is
less than 19 years old is now the most valuable company
in the world. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Seth Mattinen


On 2/2/16 11:08, Sam Kirsch wrote:

Sure; I didn't say his contribution was laughable!  I said that to think
we wouldn't have tablets today without the likes of Steve Jobs is an
absolutely insane notion.


Jobs did cancel the Newton which had been in development since the late 
80's and commercially available in the 90's after he came back to Apple.


But you can't discount the Newton's early achievements in the PDA field, 
even though such things weren't quite ready for the masses.


~Seth

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day


If you take away their single "webpage", all the other pieces fall.

Travis


On 2/2/2016 10:28 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

If that's what you think that Google is, you have a lot to learn.

I listened to a discussion on the Nightly Business Report last night 
about this very topic. The general consensus was that Facebook is what 
you want for what's hot "now". Google is what you want if you're 
looking beyond the next few years.



bp


On 2/2/2016 9:09 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:
I just have an irritation that a company that is literally just a 
webpage is now worth more than "real" companies like Apple or GM or 
Wells Fargo... it totally boggles my mind.


Facebook will take over Google in the next few years... so then the 
question is, what will take over Facebook 10 years from now?

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread That One Guy /sarcasm

tldr but is there a fight i can antagonize here?

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:

> Naw... I made my money on AAPL shares over a year ago... and some on
> Facebook and even Netflix... but I got out of the market about six months
> ago. ;)
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 2/2/2016 11:34 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> I think Travis' APPL shares are the source of the statements =)
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/012815/how-steve-jobs-changed-world.asp
>>
>> I'm not sure "laughable" would be the correct term the rest of the
>> world doesn't agree with you, at all.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 2/2/2016 10:34 AM, Sam Kirsch wrote:
>>
>> Tablets would most certainly be around, companies started to try and make
>> them in the 1980s.  MP3 players too.  All these things existed well before
>> the iPod and the iPhone, and multiple companies had been working on them
>> already for decades.  These things are all just glorified PDA's, the Palm
>> Pilot I had in 1998 pretty must disproves any "X wouldn't be around without
>> Y company"  Technology is technology and progress is progress... there's
>> nothing groundbreaking here about Apple AT ALL.  My first couple PDA's had
>> WiFi and GPS and there was definitely a Palm Pilot PDA/Phone combo out
>> around the time Blackberry's started to appear a lot more, this is all
>> before the iPhone it may be just before or around when the iPod first
>> came out though.  To think that technology wouldn't have made that leap to
>> full modern smartphones and tablets on its own without the likes of Steve
>> Jobs is just laughable.
>>
>>
>>
>> *-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support Plexicomm - Internet Solutions |
>> <http://www.plexicomm.net>www.plexicomm.net <http://www.plexicomm.net>*
>> * Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 <1.866.759.4678%20x109> | Fax:
>> 1.866.852.4688 <1.866.852.4688>*
>> *Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 <1.866.759.9713> |
>> <sam...@plexicomm.net>sam...@plexicomm.net <sam...@plexicomm.net>*
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Josh Luthman" < <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 2/2/2016 12:28:15 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>>
>>
>> The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would
>> change?  Really???
>>
>> Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably
>> won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without
>> them.  What else do they have?
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" < <t...@ida.net>t...@ida.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the
>>> computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the
>>> music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo,
>>> Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a
>>> "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
>>> Facebook.
>>>
>>> Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.
>>>
>>> Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard
>>> work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or
>>> groundbreaking.
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>> On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple
>>> with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer
>>> electronics.
>>>
>>> Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
>>> information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's
>>> not just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had
>>> incredible foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson < <t...@ida.net>
>>> t...@ida.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113
>>>>
>>>> "The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run
>>>> by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
>>>> ~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)
>>>>
>>>> Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years
>>>> old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(
>>>>
>>>> Travis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Adam Moffett


I think you are correct Sam.

Steve Jobs did make his contribution though, and he did it by being a 
bigger jerk than all the other bosses.  He would tell his people, "You 
can do this better," and didn't accept anything that wasn't better.  The 
result was that when you put the iPhone next to any other phone that was 
available at the time and it was way better than the others.


It all would have happened at other companies in a different time and a 
different way, so yes you're still correct.




On 2/2/2016 12:34 PM, Sam Kirsch wrote:
Tablets would most certainly be around, companies started to try and 
make them in the 1980s.  MP3 players too.  All these things existed 
well before the iPod and the iPhone, and multiple companies had been 
working on them already for decades.  These things are all just 
glorified PDA's, the Palm Pilot I had in 1998 pretty must disproves 
any "X wouldn't be around without Y company"  Technology is technology 
and progress is progress... there's nothing groundbreaking here about 
Apple AT ALL.  My first couple PDA's had WiFi and GPS and there was 
definitely a Palm Pilot PDA/Phone combo out around the time 
Blackberry's started to appear a lot more, this is all before the 
iPhone it may be just before or around when the iPod first came 
out though.  To think that technology wouldn't have made that leap to 
full modern smartphones and tablets on its own without the likes of 
Steve Jobs is just laughable.

*-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net 
<http://www.plexicomm.net>**

Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688*
*Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | *sam...@plexicomm.net* 
<mailto:sam...@plexicomm.net>*

-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com 
<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/2/2016 12:28:15 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day


The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would 
change?  Really???


Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets 
probably won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to 
fruition without them.  What else do they have?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net 
<mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:


At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed
the computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created
apps, and the music world. Google created a search engine
(actually copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, Altavista and several others
at the time). They aren't a "product". They don't "sell"
anything. They are a webpage, just like Facebook.

Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and
hard work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create
anything new or groundbreaking.

Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than
Apple with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable /
crappy consumer electronics.

Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
information and communications. When you consider the value of
those, it's not just the most valuable company in matters of
money. The founders had incredible foresight in addition to
their intelligence and hard work.

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net
<mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:


http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or
money. It's run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of
data. It's all just electrons."
~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less
than 19 years old is now the most valuable company in the
world. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

The products are you and me, not the search engine.  And they're already 
produced quite a bit of material on what you and I like, whether you 
like it or not or whether you interact with Google directly or not.  Any 
page that has adsense tracks your browser footprint and builds a 
database on you.  I'm sure in the completely fictional scenario of them 
'loosing' the search engine they'd find some way to still roll adsense 
through partner sites and YouTube into something somewhat viable.  Sure 
it would be a big blow that would take the wind out of their sails.  But 
now we're dealing in a weird realm of what-ifs...  Will Apple survive in 
the long term without Jobs?  If they don't I feel like following your 
logic that then completely discounts all their production lines and 
physical products.  He was their *one thing* that propped everything 
else up, then, if that's the case no?  But maybe I'm just reading it 
wrong?


You seem to think the single Search Engine page is the product, its not. 
 You and I are the product, and at this point we've been well produce, 
packaged, and sold to advertisers, and as we age and our interests and 
hobbies change the profile get updated (and our new interests an retro 
interests can be marketed separately!) and as our Kids get on the 
internet and Google links my Kid's interest to my "Profile" and they 
start sending me Ads for stuff HE wants for Christmas (which they 
already do)... Don't get me wrong, the search engine is a huge part of 
the platform, but the 1 Billion gMail users and the 1.17 billion Google 
Search users and the 1 billion viewers who make 4 billion Youtube video 
views per day are the product.  Advertising is what drives all the "big 
producer" companies that you seem to deem more fit of the title or place 
of world's most valuable company.  So, its sort of all about how you 
look at it.  The company with the widest reach, and the most niche 
information, that can drive Advertising for all the producers to the 
most customers and to the right customers that will actually go out and 
by that product. If Google is the grease of the world's producer's 
wheels then I think they do deserve some significant credit for being 
able to parlay that into being the highest grossing company worldwide.  
That's just my take on it though ;)


Regards,

-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | sam...@plexicomm.net



-- Original Message --
From: "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/2/2016 1:22:33 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

If the search engine goes away, so does everything else they are 
involved in. None of the other "products" are profitable on their own.


Travis


On 2/2/2016 10:22 AM, Sam Kirsch wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Google_products

There's a little more to them then just a Search Engine ;)

I don't see how anything changes with Apple not being around either.  
There's absolutely nothing in an Apple product that's super 
groundbreaking... Many companies had already attempted to combine a 
PDA and a Cell Phone long before the iPhone, they just did it the most 
mass marketable way first.  And that goes for just able every Apple 
product I can think of.  MP3 players existed.  Music platforms 
existed.  They just weren't unified and mass marketed in the same 
way... so, Apple really just copied a bunch of other guys too (and has 
been doing that since the company's inception, the mouse, the GUI, 
etc) NOTHING CHANGES ;)



-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | sam...@plexicomm.net



-- Original Message --
From: "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/2/2016 12:22:36 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the 
computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and 
the music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying 
Yahoo, Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They 
aren't a "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, 
just like Facebook.


Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard 
work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new 
or groundbreaking.


Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than 
Apple with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy 
consumer electronics.


Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's 
information and communications. When you consider the value of 
thos

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread That One Guy /sarcasm

I hear commodore is going to get in the cellphone market soon

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 2:05 PM, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
wrote:

> Apple vs Android phones
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 3:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> tldr but is there a fight i can antagonize here?
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Naw... I made my money on AAPL shares over a year ago... and some on
>>> Facebook and even Netflix... but I got out of the market about six months
>>> ago. ;)
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/2/2016 11:34 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>
>>> I think Travis' APPL shares are the source of the statements =)
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/012815/how-steve-jobs-changed-world.asp
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure "laughable" would be the correct term the rest of the
>>>> world doesn't agree with you, at all.
>>>>
>>>> Travis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/2/2016 10:34 AM, Sam Kirsch wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Tablets would most certainly be around, companies started to try and
>>>> make them in the 1980s.  MP3 players too.  All these things existed well
>>>> before the iPod and the iPhone, and multiple companies had been working on
>>>> them already for decades.  These things are all just glorified PDA's, the
>>>> Palm Pilot I had in 1998 pretty must disproves any "X wouldn't be around
>>>> without Y company"  Technology is technology and progress is progress...
>>>> there's nothing groundbreaking here about Apple AT ALL.  My first couple
>>>> PDA's had WiFi and GPS and there was definitely a Palm Pilot PDA/Phone
>>>> combo out around the time Blackberry's started to appear a lot more, this
>>>> is all before the iPhone it may be just before or around when the iPod
>>>> first came out though.  To think that technology wouldn't have made that
>>>> leap to full modern smartphones and tablets on its own without the likes of
>>>> Steve Jobs is just laughable.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support Plexicomm - Internet Solutions |
>>>> <http://www.plexicomm.net>www.plexicomm.net <http://www.plexicomm.net>*
>>>> * Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 <1.866.759.4678%20x109> | Fax:
>>>> 1.866.852.4688 <1.866.852.4688>*
>>>> *Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 <1.866.759.9713> |
>>>> <sam...@plexicomm.net>sam...@plexicomm.net <sam...@plexicomm.net>*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>> From: "Josh Luthman" < <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>> Sent: 2/2/2016 12:28:15 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would
>>>> change?  Really???
>>>>
>>>> Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably
>>>> won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without
>>>> them.  What else do they have?
>>>>
>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>> Suite 1337
>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>> On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" < <t...@ida.net>t...@ida.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the
>>>>> computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the
>>>>> music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo,
>>>>> Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a
>>>>> "product". They don't "sell" any

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Mathew Howard

You're going to have to do better than that if you want to antagonize a
fight...

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 3:18 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I hear commodore is going to get in the cellphone market soon
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 2:05 PM, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Apple vs Android phones
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 3:04 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> tldr but is there a fight i can antagonize here?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Naw... I made my money on AAPL shares over a year ago... and some on
>>>> Facebook and even Netflix... but I got out of the market about six months
>>>> ago. ;)
>>>>
>>>> Travis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/2/2016 11:34 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I think Travis' APPL shares are the source of the statements =)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>> Suite 1337
>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/012815/how-steve-jobs-changed-world.asp
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure "laughable" would be the correct term the rest of the
>>>>> world doesn't agree with you, at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Travis
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/2/2016 10:34 AM, Sam Kirsch wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Tablets would most certainly be around, companies started to try and
>>>>> make them in the 1980s.  MP3 players too.  All these things existed well
>>>>> before the iPod and the iPhone, and multiple companies had been working on
>>>>> them already for decades.  These things are all just glorified PDA's, the
>>>>> Palm Pilot I had in 1998 pretty must disproves any "X wouldn't be around
>>>>> without Y company"  Technology is technology and progress is progress...
>>>>> there's nothing groundbreaking here about Apple AT ALL.  My first couple
>>>>> PDA's had WiFi and GPS and there was definitely a Palm Pilot PDA/Phone
>>>>> combo out around the time Blackberry's started to appear a lot more, this
>>>>> is all before the iPhone it may be just before or around when the iPod
>>>>> first came out though.  To think that technology wouldn't have made that
>>>>> leap to full modern smartphones and tablets on its own without the likes 
>>>>> of
>>>>> Steve Jobs is just laughable.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support Plexicomm - Internet Solutions |
>>>>> <http://www.plexicomm.net>www.plexicomm.net <http://www.plexicomm.net>*
>>>>> * Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 <1.866.759.4678%20x109> | Fax:
>>>>> 1.866.852.4688 <1.866.852.4688>*
>>>>> *Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 <1.866.759.9713> |
>>>>> <sam...@plexicomm.net>sam...@plexicomm.net <sam...@plexicomm.net>*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>>> From: "Josh Luthman" < <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>>>>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>> Sent: 2/2/2016 12:28:15 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would
>>>>> change?  Really???
>>>>>
>>>>> Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably
>>>>> won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without
>>>>> them.  What else do they have?
>>>>>
>>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>>> Suite 1337
>>>>&g

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Jason McKemie

Definitely agree here.  The Newton was one of the most innovative devices
that Apple has made, it was just ahead of its time and therefore failed.
IMO the Newton was more innovative than any of the i-devices.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> On 2/2/16 11:08, Sam Kirsch wrote:
>
>> Sure; I didn't say his contribution was laughable!  I said that to think
>> we wouldn't have tablets today without the likes of Steve Jobs is an
>> absolutely insane notion.
>>
>
> Jobs did cancel the Newton which had been in development since the late
> 80's and commercially available in the 90's after he came back to Apple.
>
> But you can't discount the Newton's early achievements in the PDA field,
> even though such things weren't quite ready for the masses.
>
> ~Seth
>

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Creating Alphabet suggests they want to change this.  Or that they are just 
doing random stuff.

They may see activist investors forcing companies to split themselves up so 
every business unit maximizes return to investors or gets culled if it’s not 
profitable.  Xerox is the latest, and Icahn only had 8% ownership.  Investors 
like that are a pain in the butt to management, better to get ahead of the 
problem.  Companies with tons of cash are also susceptible to leveraged 
buyouts, where you essentially buy them with their own cash.  Alphabet may be 
to big a fish for any other fish to swallow, but it’s not unheard of for the 
little fish to eat the big fish, or make its life difficult.

It also looks like they are now serious about Google Fiber being a serious 
enterprise, not just a showcase.  I still won’t be impressed until they stop 
cherry picking and wire someplace no one would, how about Flint Michigan?  But 
perhaps that is just part of becoming profitable, you cherry pick.


From: Travis Johnson 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 12:22 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

If the search engine goes away, so does everything else they are involved in. 
None of the other "products" are profitable on their own.

Travis



On 2/2/2016 10:22 AM, Sam Kirsch wrote:

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Google_products

  There's a little more to them then just a Search Engine ;)  

  I don't see how anything changes with Apple not being around either.  There's 
absolutely nothing in an Apple product that's super groundbreaking... Many 
companies had already attempted to combine a PDA and a Cell Phone long before 
the iPhone, they just did it the most mass marketable way first.  And that goes 
for just able every Apple product I can think of.  MP3 players existed.  Music 
platforms existed.  They just weren't unified and mass marketed in the same 
way... so, Apple really just copied a bunch of other guys too (and has been 
doing that since the company's inception, the mouse, the GUI, etc) NOTHING 
CHANGES ;)


  -- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
  Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
  Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
  Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | sam...@plexicomm.net



  -- Original Message --
  From: "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 2/2/2016 12:22:36 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the 
computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the music 
world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, 
Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a "product". They don't 
"sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like Facebook.

Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES. 

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard 
work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or 
groundbreaking.

Travis


On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

  I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple 
with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer 
electronics.


  Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's 
information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's not 
just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had incredible 
foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.


  On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:


http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run 
by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years 
old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

And that giant horde of cash that Apple has is starting to look like a 
giant festering sore that they have no clue what to do with besides 
building a gigantic $5 billion space ship in Cupertino.


OBT, they just bought a couple hundred acres (forget the exact size, but 
IIRC, it is around 160 acres) near the San Jose airport upon which they 
plan to build a facility bigger than the spaceship. Undeveloped property 
in that area is probably well north of $1 million per acre.


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 2/2/2016 10:35 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Creating Alphabet suggests they want to change this.  Or that they are 
just doing random stuff.
They may see activist investors forcing companies to split themselves 
up so every business unit maximizes return to investors or gets culled 
if it’s not profitable.  Xerox is the latest, and Icahn only had 8% 
ownership.  Investors like that are a pain in the butt to management, 
better to get ahead of the problem.  Companies with tons of cash are 
also susceptible to leveraged buyouts, where you essentially buy them 
with their own cash.  Alphabet may be to big a fish for any other fish 
to swallow, but it’s not unheard of for the little fish to eat the big 
fish, or make its life difficult.
It also looks like they are now serious about Google Fiber being a 
serious enterprise, not just a showcase.  I still won’t be impressed 
until they stop cherry picking and wire someplace no one would, how 
about Flint Michigan?  But perhaps that is just part of becoming 
profitable, you cherry pick.

*From:* Travis Johnson <mailto:t...@ida.net>
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 12:22 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
If the search engine goes away, so does everything else they are 
involved in. None of the other "products" are profitable on their own.


Travis


On 2/2/2016 10:22 AM, Sam Kirsch wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Google_products
There's a little more to them then just a Search Engine ;)
I don't see how anything changes with Apple not being around either.  
There's absolutely nothing in an Apple product that's super 
groundbreaking... Many companies had already attempted to combine a 
PDA and a Cell Phone long before the iPhone, they just did it the 
most mass marketable way first.  And that goes for just able every 
Apple product I can think of.  MP3 players existed. Music platforms 
existed.  They just weren't unified and mass marketed in the same 
way... so, Apple really just copied a bunch of other guys too (and 
has been doing that since the company's inception, the mouse, the 
GUI, etc) NOTHING CHANGES ;)

*-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net**
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688*
*Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | *sam...@plexicomm.net* 
<mailto:sam...@plexicomm.net>*

-- Original Message --
From: "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net <mailto:t...@ida.net>>
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/2/2016 12:22:36 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the 
computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, 
and the music world. Google created a search engine (actually 
copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the 
time). They aren't a "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are 
a webpage, just like Facebook.


Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard 
work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new 
or groundbreaking.


Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than 
Apple with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / 
crappy consumer electronics.


Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's 
information and communications. When you consider the value of 
those, it's not just the most valuable company in matters of money. 
The founders had incredible foresight in addition to their 
intelligence and hard work.

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:


http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money.
It's run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's
all just electrons."
~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than
19 years old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Locked out of your house?  Don’t use Google to find a locksmith.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/business/fake-online-locksmiths-may-be-out-to-pick-your-pocket-too.html

Read the whole article to find out just how badly Google search and map results 
are corrupted.  This locksmith must be legit, I can see their building on 
Google Maps.  Oh, not really there, created by Photoshop and “crowdsourcing”.  
And driven by a “lead generator” to make it look local.  And advertising $19 
but paying twice that to Google for the AdWords click.  SCAM, SCAM, SCAM.


From: George Skorup 
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 11:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Nobody says "Let me Bing/Yahoo that". So yeah, Google is how you search the 
interwebs. But I agree on the other point. I do not trust any company that has 
(or can have) such huge control over information. Be it Google, Microsoft, 
Apple, etc... or the government.


On 2/1/2016 11:36 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

  I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would change if 
Google went away tomorrow. 

  Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created the 
first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets before 
Apple, and they all failed.

  I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. She used 
that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated with two 
Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every paper, thousands of emails, 
etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses, no hardware issues, 
no software issues. Never a single issue. No OS reload, no malware scanners, 
nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of Apple's products... they just 
work.

  Travis



  On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would change?  
Really???

Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably 
won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without them.  
What else do they have?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> wrote:

  At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the 
computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the music 
world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, 
Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a "product". They don't 
"sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like Facebook.

  Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES. 

  Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard 
work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or 
groundbreaking.

  Travis


  On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple 
with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer 
electronics.


Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's 
information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's not 
just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had incredible 
foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.


On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:

  
http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

  "The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's 
run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
  ~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

  Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 
years old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(

  Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

You just described every large scale data source ever.

Congratulations
On Feb 2, 2016 8:41 AM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

> Locked out of your house?  Don’t use Google to find a locksmith.
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/business/fake-online-locksmiths-may-be-out-to-pick-your-pocket-too.html
>
> Read the whole article to find out just how badly Google search and map
> results are corrupted.  This locksmith must be legit, I can see their
> building on Google Maps.  Oh, not really there, created by Photoshop and
> “crowdsourcing”.  And driven by a “lead generator” to make it look local.
> And advertising $19 but paying twice that to Google for the AdWords click.
> SCAM, SCAM, SCAM.
>
>
> *From:* George Skorup <geo...@cbcast.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, February 01, 2016 11:44 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>
> Nobody says "Let me Bing/Yahoo that". So yeah, Google is how you search
> the interwebs. But I agree on the other point. I do not trust any company
> that has (or can have) such huge control over information. Be it Google,
> Microsoft, Apple, etc... or the government.
>
> On 2/1/2016 11:36 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>
> I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would change
> if Google went away tomorrow.
>
> Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created the
> first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets
> before Apple, and they all failed.
>
> I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. She
> used that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated with
> two Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every paper, thousands of
> emails, etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses, no
> hardware issues, no software issues. Never a single issue. No OS reload, no
> malware scanners, nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of Apple's
> products... they just work.
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would change?
> Really???
>
> Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably
> won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without
> them.  What else do they have?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>
>> At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the
>> computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the
>> music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo,
>> Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a
>> "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
>> Facebook.
>>
>> Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.
>>
>> Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard
>> work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or
>> groundbreaking.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>> On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>>
>> I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple
>> with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer
>> electronics.
>>
>> Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
>> information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's
>> not just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had
>> incredible foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113
>>>
>>> "The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run
>>> by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
>>> ~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)
>>>
>>> Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years
>>> old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Ask Jeeves and Altavista.  *shudder*


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 10:40 AM, Simon Westlake <simon@sonar.software>
wrote:

> Yeah, I keep thinking people have forgotten what it was like. Go and
> google 'that quentin tarantino movie about slaves' and the first result is
> Django Unchained. Google 'that space movie with george clooney in it' and
> the first result is Gravity. Google 'that programming language that is
> named after a jewel' and the second result is 'The Ruby Programming
> Language'. I think people forget how fastidious you had to be in search
> engines before Google (does anyone remember having to do things like '"this
> phrase" + "this other phrase" - "something" and these words' and still
> getting garbage?)
>
> On 2/2/2016 9:35 AM, Joe Novak wrote:
>
> Have you ever tried to get anything done with the other search engines?
> It's almost like a sad joke. Google raised the bar for what to expect out
> of a search engine.
> On Feb 2, 2016 9:05 AM, "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:
>
>> You just described every large scale data source ever.
>>
>> Congratulations
>> On Feb 2, 2016 8:41 AM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Locked out of your house?  Don’t use Google to find a locksmith.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/business/fake-online-locksmiths-may-be-out-to-pick-your-pocket-too.html
>>>
>>> Read the whole article to find out just how badly Google search and map
>>> results are corrupted.  This locksmith must be legit, I can see their
>>> building on Google Maps.  Oh, not really there, created by Photoshop and
>>> “crowdsourcing”.  And driven by a “lead generator” to make it look local.
>>> And advertising $19 but paying twice that to Google for the AdWords click.
>>> SCAM, SCAM, SCAM.
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* George Skorup <geo...@cbcast.com>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 01, 2016 11:44 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>>>
>>> Nobody says "Let me Bing/Yahoo that". So yeah, Google is how you search
>>> the interwebs. But I agree on the other point. I do not trust any company
>>> that has (or can have) such huge control over information. Be it Google,
>>> Microsoft, Apple, etc... or the government.
>>>
>>> On 2/1/2016 11:36 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>> I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would
>>> change if Google went away tomorrow.
>>>
>>> Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created the
>>> first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets
>>> before Apple, and they all failed.
>>>
>>> I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. She
>>> used that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated with
>>> two Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every paper, thousands of
>>> emails, etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses, no
>>> hardware issues, no software issues. Never a single issue. No OS reload, no
>>> malware scanners, nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of Apple's
>>> products... they just work.
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>
>>> The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would
>>> change?  Really???
>>>
>>> Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably
>>> won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without
>>> them.  What else do they have?
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" < <t...@ida.net>t...@ida.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the
>>>> computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the
>>>> music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo,
>>>> Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a
>>>> "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
>>>> Facebook.
>>>>
>>>> Imag

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Google actually had developed the pre-android android before apple
introduced the iphone. It's likely that Apple saw the skunk-works
project as inspiration for the iphone.

Likewise the apple GUI and mouse was developed at Xerox-PARC before
Apple developed the Mac.

The core of Mac-OSX is the Mach core that Next evolved from BSD Unix.

Apple's key to success is indeed the fashion and mystique that they have
created.

Saddly, they haven't really come up with anything new since Steve jobs
departed. I don't see them really doing anything new yet.

Google is still running a lot of skunk-works type projects, and are
really striving to break new ground.

On 2/2/2016 5:56 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

You don't remember BlackBerry was out before iPhone?

I used my IBM laptop from college for a few years. Same story plus I
could play Halo CE :)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 2, 2016 12:36 AM, "Travis Johnson" > wrote:

I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing
would change if Google went away tomorrow.

Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't
created the first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many
people tried tablets before Apple, and they all failed.

I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years
ago. She used that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years.
She graduated with two Bachelor's degrees... using that same
laptop. Every paper, thousands of emails, etc... and she has never
had a single issue... no viruses, no hardware issues, no software
issues. Never a single issue. No OS reload, no malware scanners,
nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of Apple's
products... they just work.

Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would
change? Really???

Apple is gone. People buy Blackberries and Android. Tablets
probably won't exist. Mp3 players would probably have come to
fruition without them. What else do they have?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" > wrote:

At least Apple makes products... products that literally
changed the computing world, the phone world, the retail
world, created apps, and the music world. Google created a
search engine (actually copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, Altavista
and several others at the time). They aren't a "product".
They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
Facebook.

Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence
and hard work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't
create anything new or groundbreaking.

Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position
than Apple with their overpriced yet restricted /
non-upgradable / crappy consumer electronics.

Google is making themselves the curator of access to the
world's information and communications. When you consider
the value of those, it's not just the most valuable company
in matters of money. The founders had incredible foresight
in addition to their intelligence and hard work.

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson
> wrote:

http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or
money. It's run by little ones and zeroes, little bits
of data. It's all just electrons."
~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less
than 19 years old is now the most valuable company in
the world. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Jaime Solorza

Seems like some of you gents need to see this video and mellow down...it
will put it all in perspective or I could quote Adam Smith and others
but that so cerebralenjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBRrCY5uhWY=em
On Feb 2, 2016 8:50 AM, "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:

> Right now if I go to Bing, for example, and type in "what ISPs are in
> my $zipcode"...
>
> It's not using the location data correctly, for one. The first few
> pages are nothing but spam and clickbait. There isn't a single, actual
> provider one that page.
>
> Using Yahoo I get the same thing, but there's even more ads.
>
> Using google, there are actual real results of providers that actually
> provide service in this area, as well as a handful of fairly
> trustworth review sites.
>
> Tell me, which one is more useful?
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:38 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
> > It doesn’t bother you that a search for high speed Internet in your town
> is
> > useless because Google lets lead generators game their system so that the
> > first several pages of results are ISPs that don’t even have service
> there?
> >
> > Money and monopoly power has corrupted Google’s search business (and
> > associated services like Maps).  They are obviously not strapped for
> cash,
> > they should spend a few bucks fixing their search engine.  Until they
> do, we
> > should look for and use better search engines.  So don’t use Google to
> find
> > a locksmith.  Better choices like Yelp and Angies List come to mind, plus
> > probably some I’m not thinking of at the moment.
> >
> >
> > From: Josh Reynolds
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 9:05 AM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
> >
> >
> > You just described every large scale data source ever.
> >
> > Congratulations
> >
> > On Feb 2, 2016 8:41 AM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Locked out of your house?  Don’t use Google to find a locksmith.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/business/fake-online-locksmiths-may-be-out-to-pick-your-pocket-too.html
> >>
> >> Read the whole article to find out just how badly Google search and map
> >> results are corrupted.  This locksmith must be legit, I can see their
> >> building on Google Maps.  Oh, not really there, created by Photoshop and
> >> “crowdsourcing”.  And driven by a “lead generator” to make it look
> local.
> >> And advertising $19 but paying twice that to Google for the AdWords
> click.
> >> SCAM, SCAM, SCAM.
> >>
> >>
> >> From: George Skorup
> >> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 11:44 PM
> >> To: af@afmug.com
> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
> >>
> >> Nobody says "Let me Bing/Yahoo that". So yeah, Google is how you search
> >> the interwebs. But I agree on the other point. I do not trust any
> company
> >> that has (or can have) such huge control over information. Be it Google,
> >> Microsoft, Apple, etc... or the government.
> >>
> >> On 2/1/2016 11:36 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
> >>
> >> I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would
> change
> >> if Google went away tomorrow.
> >>
> >> Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created the
> >> first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets
> before
> >> Apple, and they all failed.
> >>
> >> I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. She
> >> used that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated
> with
> >> two Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every paper,
> thousands of
> >> emails, etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses, no
> >> hardware issues, no software issues. Never a single issue. No OS
> reload, no
> >> malware scanners, nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of
> Apple's
> >> products... they just work.
> >>
> >> Travis
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
> >>
> >> The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would
> change?
> >> Really???
> >>
> >> Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably
> >> won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without
> them.
> >> What else do they have?
> >>
> >> Jo

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

I don't use Yelp for anything that I want to trust. I have seen too many 
examples of when their "results" are absolute fabrications. I can't 
speak to Angie's List, as I haven't used them much at all.


Point is that most, if not all, of the online search lists, or catalogs 
or whatever are still relatively easy to exploit.


Google has gone through at least 5 or 6 major iterations of refining the 
way they search. I'm sure there will be more, because as soon as Google 
(and companies like Google) find a way to patch some of the exploits, 
other clever people will find a way to game the system.


I have a cousin who makes his living selling Google (and Bing) exploits.

bp


On 2/2/2016 7:38 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Better choices like Yelp and Angies List come to mind, plus probably 
some I’m not thinking of at the moment.

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Stefan Englhardt

>Google actually had developed the pre-android android before apple introduced
>the iphone. It's likely that Apple saw the skunk-works project as inspiration
>for the iphone.
>
>Likewise the apple GUI and mouse was developed at Xerox-PARC before Apple
>developed the Mac.

Together with Smalltalk 80 which was groundbreaking but not spread very wide.

Concepts are marginaly copied into C++ and partially copied into java.

Yes. And there was GEM which was then ported to the Atari ST.

>The core of Mac-OSX is the Mach core that Next evolved from BSD Unix.

>Apple's key to success is indeed the fashion and mystique that they have
>created.

And to bring stuff to market at the right time. There were tablets before the
iPad but failed due to hardware limitations.

>Saddly, they haven't really come up with anything new since Steve jobs
>departed. I don't see them really doing anything new yet.

They tried with Apple Watch but failed. There is something missing which
overcomes the small screen/battery problem. Steve Jobs might have

gotten the point in time when a wearable screen is available which makes it
something new.

>Google is still running a lot of skunk-works type projects, and are really
>striving to break new ground.

Google is complete different in inventing service and profit where no one tried
before. They try and fail with a lot of stuff but the

cash-cow adwords allows them to do this.

On 2/2/2016 5:56 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

You don't remember BlackBerry was out before iPhone?

I used my IBM laptop from college for a few years. Same story plus I could
play Halo CE :)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 2, 2016 12:36 AM, "Travis Johnson" >
wrote:

I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would change if
Google went away tomorrow.

Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created the first
iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets before Apple,
and they all failed.

I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. She used
that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated with two
Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every paper, thousands of emails,
etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses, no hardware issues,
no software issues. Never a single issue. No OS reload, no malware scanners,
nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of Apple's products... they just
work.

Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would change?
Really???

Apple is gone. People buy Blackberries and Android. Tablets probably won't
exist. Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without them. What
else do they have?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" >
wrote:

At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the computing
world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the music world.
Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, Altavista
and several others at the time). They aren't a "product". They don't "sell"
anything. They are a webpage, just like Facebook.

Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard work...
but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or groundbreaking.

Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple with
their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer electronics.

Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's information
and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's not just the
most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had incredible
foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson > wrote:

http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run by
little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years old is
now the most valuable company in the world. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Simon Westlake

Yeah, about Bing..

https://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/microsofts-bing-uses-google-search.html

On 2/2/2016 10:01 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Bing results for those searches:
1) Django Unchained
2) Solaris
3) How 13 programming languages got their names (second result is Ruby)
I don’t have an iDevice, maybe someone can ask Siri these 3 questions?
DuckDuckGo gave the same results as Bing, but supposedly has the
advantage of not tracking you, and therefore giving everyone the same
results.
I will admit that I use Google a lot for things like conversions (like
mm to inches) and even as a calculator.

*From:* Simon Westlake <mailto:simon@sonar.software>
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 02, 2016 9:40 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
Yeah, I keep thinking people have forgotten what it was like. Go and
google 'that quentin tarantino movie about slaves' and the first
result is Django Unchained. Google 'that space movie with george
clooney in it' and the first result is Gravity. Google 'that
programming language that is named after a jewel' and the second
result is 'The Ruby Programming Language'. I think people forget how
fastidious you had to be in search engines before Google (does anyone
remember having to do things like '"this phrase" + "this other phrase"
- "something" and these words' and still getting garbage?)

On 2/2/2016 9:35 AM, Joe Novak wrote:

Have you ever tried to get anything done with the other search
engines? It's almost like a sad joke. Google raised the bar for what
to expect out of a search engine.

On Feb 2, 2016 9:05 AM, "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com
<mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:

You just described every large scale data source ever.

Congratulations

On Feb 2, 2016 8:41 AM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

Locked out of your house? Don’t use Google to find a locksmith.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/business/fake-online-locksmiths-may-be-out-to-pick-your-pocket-too.html
Read the whole article to find out just how badly Google
search and map results are corrupted. This locksmith must be
legit, I can see their building on Google Maps. Oh, not
really there, created by Photoshop and “crowdsourcing”. And
driven by a “lead generator” to make it look local. And
advertising $19 but paying twice that to Google for the
AdWords click. SCAM, SCAM, SCAM.
*From:* George Skorup <mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>
*Sent:* Monday, February 01, 2016 11:44 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
Nobody says "Let me Bing/Yahoo that". So yeah, Google is how
you search the interwebs. But I agree on the other point. I
do not trust any company that has (or can have) such huge
control over information. Be it Google, Microsoft, Apple,
etc... or the government.

On 2/1/2016 11:36 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine.
Nothing would change if Google went away tomorrow.

Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't
created the first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many
people tried tablets before Apple, and they all failed.

I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5
years ago. She used that laptop literally every day, for
over 5 years. She graduated with two Bachelor's degrees...
using that same laptop. Every paper, thousands of emails,
etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses,
no hardware issues, no software issues. Never a single
issue. No OS reload, no malware scanners, nothing. It just
works. Just like all the rest of Apple's products... they
just work.

Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

The world's most popular site and you don't think the world
would change? Really???

Apple is gone. People buy Blackberries and Android.
Tablets probably won't exist. Mp3 players would probably
have come to fruition without them. What else do they have?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> wrote:

At least Apple makes products... products that
literally changed the computing world, the phone world,
the retail world, created apps, and the music world.
Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo,
Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time).
They aren't a "

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day


Also, remember you are being filtered, whether you realize it or not.

Use Google with a different browser, or with an anonymous browser, and 
you will get entirely different results.


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 2/2/2016 8:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
OK, I just tried it on Google, and they do seem to have cleaned that 
up quite a bit.


I used to get results for all sorts of cable companies that aren't 
within a hundred miles.  In fact, I used to be able to type in "high 
speed Internet in Bumfuck Egypt, Illinois" and get search results for 
web pages supposedly offering Internet there but that must have been 
generated dynamically based on whatever you were searching for.


I would still have to try the search from a pristine computer, 
otherwise Google is deciding what results to show me based on their 
data tracking on me.


Every time I open some weird link from you guys on this list, websites 
and search engines for the next week decide that's what I'm interested 
in.  So I'm surprised Google doesn't show me movies about whatever 
Jaime had for lunch yesterday.



-Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 9:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Right now if I go to Bing, for example, and type in "what ISPs are in
my $zipcode"...

It's not using the location data correctly, for one. The first few
pages are nothing but spam and clickbait. There isn't a single, actual
provider one that page.

Using Yahoo I get the same thing, but there's even more ads.

Using google, there are actual real results of providers that actually
provide service in this area, as well as a handful of fairly
trustworth review sites.

Tell me, which one is more useful?

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:38 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
It doesn’t bother you that a search for high speed Internet in your 
town is
useless because Google lets lead generators game their system so that 
the
first several pages of results are ISPs that don’t even have service 
there?


Money and monopoly power has corrupted Google’s search business (and
associated services like Maps).  They are obviously not strapped for 
cash,
they should spend a few bucks fixing their search engine.  Until they 
do, we
should look for and use better search engines.  So don’t use Google 
to find
a locksmith.  Better choices like Yelp and Angies List come to mind, 
plus

probably some I’m not thinking of at the moment.


From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 9:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day


You just described every large scale data source ever.

Congratulations

On Feb 2, 2016 8:41 AM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:


Locked out of your house?  Don’t use Google to find a locksmith.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/business/fake-online-locksmiths-may-be-out-to-pick-your-pocket-too.html 



Read the whole article to find out just how badly Google search and map
results are corrupted.  This locksmith must be legit, I can see their
building on Google Maps.  Oh, not really there, created by Photoshop 
and
“crowdsourcing”.  And driven by a “lead generator” to make it look 
local.
And advertising $19 but paying twice that to Google for the AdWords 
click.

SCAM, SCAM, SCAM.


From: George Skorup
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 11:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Nobody says "Let me Bing/Yahoo that". So yeah, Google is how you search
the interwebs. But I agree on the other point. I do not trust any 
company
that has (or can have) such huge control over information. Be it 
Google,

Microsoft, Apple, etc... or the government.

On 2/1/2016 11:36 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would 
change

if Google went away tomorrow.

Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created 
the
first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried 
tablets before

Apple, and they all failed.

I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. 
She
used that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She 
graduated with
two Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every paper, 
thousands of

emails, etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses, no
hardware issues, no software issues. Never a single issue. No OS 
reload, no
malware scanners, nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of 
Apple's

products... they just work.

Travis


On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would 
change?

Really???

Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably
won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition 
without them.

What else do they have?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Simon Westlake

They have done some mind blowing things though. Google Streetview being
the best example I can think of off the top of my head. People take
Streetview for granted at this point, but it is an absolutely ridiculous
achievement, whether you think it's a good thing or not. I always use
Google Streetview as an example when I'm talking to people about
programming - there are a lot of challenges you can solve with a liberal
application of insight and creativity, but the only way to copy Google
Streetview is to get cars driving down streets. And before Streetview
existed, if you had proposed to someone that you want to photograph
every house on every street, they would have said you were absolutely crazy.

I don't agree with everything Google does (and I actually don't use a
lot of their products because they have a nasty habit of just giving up
on stuff that you've come to rely on) but I really can't criticize them
on their accomplishments.

On 2/2/2016 7:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

Their mapping data is licensed from someone else, or at least it used
to be. Maybe they purchased them. Not that they haven't done unique
things with it. Im not saying knowledge and information is worthless.
I am saying it is much more likely to become so than other types of
hard assets. Google is one Google like innovation from becoming Yahoo
which has almost become AOL which was the Google of their day. During
that time, Exxon and UPR are still in their relative positions. Not
sexy but real things moving from where they are to where they are
demanded.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016, 7:03 AM Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com
<mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> wrote:

Google owns the world's most popular smart phone, the world's most
possible search engine, many of the best data comparison and AI
algorithms, and the most popular device in schools across the
world - the chromebook.
Their customers are everyone. It's very possible they have more
data than any company in the history of the world, with some of
that info being very private.

Yes, they are big brother in a way. At least with the data, maybe
not the implementation of controls.

Oh, forgot about Google Earth and their mapping programs,
satellites, etc.

On Feb 2, 2016 6:56 AM, "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com
<mailto:lewis.berg...@gmail.com>> wrote:

The trouble with a valuation as high as Google, and to a
lesser extent, Apple, is that there is a huge "hype" or
inflationary affect on the stock price. A company like Exxon
with real balance sheets representing real assets, a huge,
diverse workforce capable of building and creating real
things. Things that would would drastically affect the way the
world works, lives, plays and behaves every minute of the day
if they didn't exist.
Those type of companies have been devalued to the point that
at certain points their cap rates sometimes reflect a discount
on their balance sheets. I know when I look at what a Google
or apple valuation represents that is what I think about and
what I get from Travis' comments. The fact that there is
little tangible value in what the company owns. Intangible
value can easily disappear as quickly as it appeared. Look at
Yahoo.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016, 6:33 AM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net
<mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

I had a similar experience with a PC. It's not so much
about the machine, but the intelligence of the operator.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>

<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net <mailto:t...@ida.net>>
*To: *af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Sent: *Monday, February 1, 2016 11:36:40 PM

*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine.
Nothing would change if Google went away tomorrow.

Blackberries and Androi

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

They have more intelligence capability than most of the world's security
agencies, and the bigger ones are clients.

It's probably realistic to imagine they have information that could topple
companies and redraw and/or remove countries off the map via political
change.

That's not a small thing.
On Feb 2, 2016 7:27 AM, "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Their mapping data is licensed from someone else, or at least it used to
> be. Maybe they purchased them. Not that they haven't done unique things
> with it. Im not saying knowledge and information is worthless. I am saying
> it is much more likely to become so than other types of hard assets. Google
> is one Google like innovation from becoming Yahoo which has almost become
> AOL which was the Google of their day. During that time, Exxon and UPR are
> still in their relative positions. Not sexy but real things moving from
> where they are to where they are demanded.
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016, 7:03 AM Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:
>
>> Google owns the world's most popular smart phone, the world's most
>> possible search engine, many of the best data comparison and AI algorithms,
>> and the most popular device in schools across the world - the chromebook.
>> Their customers are everyone. It's very possible they have more data than
>> any company in the history of the world, with some of that info being very
>> private.
>>
>> Yes, they are big brother in a way. At least with the data, maybe not the
>> implementation of controls.
>>
>> Oh, forgot about Google Earth and their mapping programs, satellites,
>> etc.
>> On Feb 2, 2016 6:56 AM, "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The trouble with a valuation as high as Google, and to a lesser extent,
>>> Apple, is that there is a huge "hype" or inflationary affect on the stock
>>> price. A company like Exxon with real balance sheets representing real
>>> assets, a huge, diverse workforce capable of building and creating real
>>> things. Things that would would drastically affect the way the world works,
>>> lives, plays and behaves every minute of the day if they didn't exist.
>>> Those type of companies have been devalued to the point that at certain
>>> points their cap rates sometimes reflect a discount on their balance
>>> sheets. I know when I look at what a Google or apple valuation represents
>>> that is what I think about and what I get from Travis' comments. The fact
>>> that there is little tangible value in what the company owns. Intangible
>>> value can easily disappear as quickly as it appeared. Look at Yahoo.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016, 6:33 AM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I had a similar experience with a PC. It's not so much about the
>>>> machine, but the intelligence of the operator.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>> --
>>>> *From: *"Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net>
>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>>> *Sent: *Monday, February 1, 2016 11:36:40 PM
>>>>
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>>>>
>>>> I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would
>>>> change if Google went away tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>> Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created
>>>> the first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets
>>>> before Apple, and they all failed.
>>>>
>>>> I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago.
>>>> She used that laptop literally

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Thanks... I think. LOL

I'm not a "wait in line" for an iPhone person. I use PC laptops and
desktops. I do have an iPhone, and have had since the first one came
out. I hate iTunes with a passion.

I just have an irritation that a company that is literally just a
webpage is now worth more than "real" companies like Apple or GM or
Wells Fargo... it totally boggles my mind.

Facebook will take over Google in the next few years... so then the
question is, what will take over Facebook 10 years from now?

Travis

On 2/2/2016 12:17 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Travis, you are such an Apple fan boy, I can't stand it.

When Apple was the most valuable corporation, you proudly proclaim
them to be "the biggest company on the planet".

Well they weren't then, and they aren't now. Get over it.

And now you poo poo that Google is the most valuable corporation. We
it's only temporary, so it will be easier for you to get over.

Apple never really invented anything. Pretty much everything they've
"invented" has been a collection of things they "borrowed" from
someone else (including Google BTW).

On 2/1/2016 8:55 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's
run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just
electrons."

~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19
years old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

You're not considering data as a product.

Anywho, much of this as moot as Google is now quite a few different
companies. This year they are starting a massive expansion of "Google"
Fiber. Analysts predict 15-20 million homes lit up withing 6-8 years.
That's pretty significant.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
> Thanks... I think. LOL
>
> I'm not a "wait in line" for an iPhone person. I use PC laptops and
> desktops. I do have an iPhone, and have had since the first one came out. I
> hate iTunes with a passion.
>
> I just have an irritation that a company that is literally just a webpage is
> now worth more than "real" companies like Apple or GM or Wells Fargo... it
> totally boggles my mind.
>
> Facebook will take over Google in the next few years... so then the question
> is, what will take over Facebook 10 years from now?
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 2/2/2016 12:17 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>
>> Travis, you are such an Apple fan boy, I can't stand it.
>>
>> When Apple was the most valuable corporation, you proudly proclaim them to
>> be "the biggest company on the planet".
>>
>> Well they weren't then, and they aren't now. Get over it.
>>
>> And now you poo poo that Google is the most valuable corporation. We it's
>> only temporary, so it will be easier for you to get over.
>>
>> Apple never really invented anything. Pretty much everything they've
>> "invented" has been a collection of things they "borrowed" from someone else
>> (including Google BTW).
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 2/1/2016 8:55 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113
>>>
>>> "The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run by
>>> little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
>>> ~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)
>>>
>>> Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years
>>> old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Define real company.  Apple makes iPhones but other companies make better
things, like medicine, pipe for water, trucks for transporting food.  Would
you rather have an iPhone or food and water?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:09 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

> Thanks... I think. LOL
>
> I'm not a "wait in line" for an iPhone person. I use PC laptops and
> desktops. I do have an iPhone, and have had since the first one came out. I
> hate iTunes with a passion.
>
> I just have an irritation that a company that is literally just a webpage
> is now worth more than "real" companies like Apple or GM or Wells Fargo...
> it totally boggles my mind.
>
> Facebook will take over Google in the next few years... so then the
> question is, what will take over Facebook 10 years from now?
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 2/2/2016 12:17 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
>> Travis, you are such an Apple fan boy, I can't stand it.
>>
>> When Apple was the most valuable corporation, you proudly proclaim them
>> to be "the biggest company on the planet".
>>
>> Well they weren't then, and they aren't now. Get over it.
>>
>> And now you poo poo that Google is the most valuable corporation. We it's
>> only temporary, so it will be easier for you to get over.
>>
>> Apple never really invented anything. Pretty much everything they've
>> "invented" has been a collection of things they "borrowed" from someone
>> else (including Google BTW).
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 2/1/2016 8:55 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113
>>>
>>> "The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run
>>> by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
>>> ~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)
>>>
>>> Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years
>>> old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread CBB - Jay Fuller


Netflix?
Or whatever entertainment company becomes the "goto" for entertainment.
I mean, all the networks will have to eventually become one, i think.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Travis Johnson 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:09 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day


  Thanks... I think. LOL

  I'm not a "wait in line" for an iPhone person. I use PC laptops and 
  desktops. I do have an iPhone, and have had since the first one came 
  out. I hate iTunes with a passion.

  I just have an irritation that a company that is literally just a 
  webpage is now worth more than "real" companies like Apple or GM or 
  Wells Fargo... it totally boggles my mind.

  Facebook will take over Google in the next few years... so then the 
  question is, what will take over Facebook 10 years from now?

  Travis


  On 2/2/2016 12:17 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
  > Travis, you are such an Apple fan boy, I can't stand it.
  >
  > When Apple was the most valuable corporation, you proudly proclaim 
  > them to be "the biggest company on the planet".
  >
  > Well they weren't then, and they aren't now. Get over it.
  >
  > And now you poo poo that Google is the most valuable corporation. We 
  > it's only temporary, so it will be easier for you to get over.
  >
  > Apple never really invented anything. Pretty much everything they've 
  > "invented" has been a collection of things they "borrowed" from 
  > someone else (including Google BTW).
  >
  >
  > bp
  > <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
  >
  > On 2/1/2016 8:55 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
  >> 
http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113
 
  >>
  >>
  >> "The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's 
  >> run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just 
  >> electrons."
  >> ~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)
  >>
  >> Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 
  >> years old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(
  >>
  >> Travis
  >>
  >
  >

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Joe Novak

Have you ever tried to get anything done with the other search engines?
It's almost like a sad joke. Google raised the bar for what to expect out
of a search engine.
On Feb 2, 2016 9:05 AM, "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:

> You just described every large scale data source ever.
>
> Congratulations
> On Feb 2, 2016 8:41 AM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
>> Locked out of your house?  Don’t use Google to find a locksmith.
>>
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/business/fake-online-locksmiths-may-be-out-to-pick-your-pocket-too.html
>>
>> Read the whole article to find out just how badly Google search and map
>> results are corrupted.  This locksmith must be legit, I can see their
>> building on Google Maps.  Oh, not really there, created by Photoshop and
>> “crowdsourcing”.  And driven by a “lead generator” to make it look local.
>> And advertising $19 but paying twice that to Google for the AdWords click.
>> SCAM, SCAM, SCAM.
>>
>>
>> *From:* George Skorup <geo...@cbcast.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 01, 2016 11:44 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>>
>> Nobody says "Let me Bing/Yahoo that". So yeah, Google is how you search
>> the interwebs. But I agree on the other point. I do not trust any company
>> that has (or can have) such huge control over information. Be it Google,
>> Microsoft, Apple, etc... or the government.
>>
>> On 2/1/2016 11:36 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>
>> I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would
>> change if Google went away tomorrow.
>>
>> Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created the
>> first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets
>> before Apple, and they all failed.
>>
>> I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. She
>> used that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated with
>> two Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every paper, thousands of
>> emails, etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses, no
>> hardware issues, no software issues. Never a single issue. No OS reload, no
>> malware scanners, nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of Apple's
>> products... they just work.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would
>> change?  Really???
>>
>> Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably
>> won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without
>> them.  What else do they have?
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>>
>>> At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the
>>> computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the
>>> music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo,
>>> Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a
>>> "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
>>> Facebook.
>>>
>>> Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.
>>>
>>> Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard
>>> work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or
>>> groundbreaking.
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>> On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple
>>> with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer
>>> electronics.
>>>
>>> Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
>>> information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's
>>> not just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had
>>> incredible foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113
>>>>
>>>> "The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run
>>>> by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
>>>> ~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)
>>>>
>>>> Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years
>>>> old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(
>>>>
>>>> Travis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Right now if I go to Bing, for example, and type in "what ISPs are in
my $zipcode"...

It's not using the location data correctly, for one. The first few
pages are nothing but spam and clickbait. There isn't a single, actual
provider one that page.

Using Yahoo I get the same thing, but there's even more ads.

Using google, there are actual real results of providers that actually
provide service in this area, as well as a handful of fairly
trustworth review sites.

Tell me, which one is more useful?

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:38 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
> It doesn’t bother you that a search for high speed Internet in your town is
> useless because Google lets lead generators game their system so that the
> first several pages of results are ISPs that don’t even have service there?
>
> Money and monopoly power has corrupted Google’s search business (and
> associated services like Maps).  They are obviously not strapped for cash,
> they should spend a few bucks fixing their search engine.  Until they do, we
> should look for and use better search engines.  So don’t use Google to find
> a locksmith.  Better choices like Yelp and Angies List come to mind, plus
> probably some I’m not thinking of at the moment.
>
>
> From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 9:05 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>
>
> You just described every large scale data source ever.
>
> Congratulations
>
> On Feb 2, 2016 8:41 AM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>>
>> Locked out of your house?  Don’t use Google to find a locksmith.
>>
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/business/fake-online-locksmiths-may-be-out-to-pick-your-pocket-too.html
>>
>> Read the whole article to find out just how badly Google search and map
>> results are corrupted.  This locksmith must be legit, I can see their
>> building on Google Maps.  Oh, not really there, created by Photoshop and
>> “crowdsourcing”.  And driven by a “lead generator” to make it look local.
>> And advertising $19 but paying twice that to Google for the AdWords click.
>> SCAM, SCAM, SCAM.
>>
>>
>> From: George Skorup
>> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 11:44 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>>
>> Nobody says "Let me Bing/Yahoo that". So yeah, Google is how you search
>> the interwebs. But I agree on the other point. I do not trust any company
>> that has (or can have) such huge control over information. Be it Google,
>> Microsoft, Apple, etc... or the government.
>>
>> On 2/1/2016 11:36 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>
>> I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would change
>> if Google went away tomorrow.
>>
>> Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created the
>> first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets before
>> Apple, and they all failed.
>>
>> I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. She
>> used that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated with
>> two Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every paper, thousands of
>> emails, etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses, no
>> hardware issues, no software issues. Never a single issue. No OS reload, no
>> malware scanners, nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of Apple's
>> products... they just work.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>> On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would change?
>> Really???
>>
>> Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably
>> won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without them.
>> What else do they have?
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the
>>> computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the
>>> music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo,
>>> Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a
>>> "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
>>> Facebook.
>>>
>>> Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.
>>>
>>> Yes, they built a better mousetrap

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Bing results for those searches:

1)  Django Unchained
2)  Solaris
3)  How 13 programming languages got their names (second result is Ruby)

I don’t have an iDevice, maybe someone can ask Siri these 3 questions?

DuckDuckGo gave the same results as Bing, but supposedly has the advantage of 
not tracking you, and therefore giving everyone the same results.

I will admit that I use Google a lot for things like conversions (like mm to 
inches) and even as a calculator.


From: Simon Westlake 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 9:40 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Yeah, I keep thinking people have forgotten what it was like. Go and google 
'that quentin tarantino movie about slaves' and the first result is Django 
Unchained. Google 'that space movie with george clooney in it' and the first 
result is Gravity. Google 'that programming language that is named after a 
jewel' and the second result is 'The Ruby Programming Language'. I think people 
forget how fastidious you had to be in search engines before Google (does 
anyone remember having to do things like '"this phrase" + "this other phrase" - 
"something" and these words' and still getting garbage?)


On 2/2/2016 9:35 AM, Joe Novak wrote:

  Have you ever tried to get anything done with the other search engines? It's 
almost like a sad joke. Google raised the bar for what to expect out of a 
search engine.

  On Feb 2, 2016 9:05 AM, "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:

You just described every large scale data source ever.

Congratulations

On Feb 2, 2016 8:41 AM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

  Locked out of your house?  Don’t use Google to find a locksmith.

  
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/business/fake-online-locksmiths-may-be-out-to-pick-your-pocket-too.html

  Read the whole article to find out just how badly Google search and map 
results are corrupted.  This locksmith must be legit, I can see their building 
on Google Maps.  Oh, not really there, created by Photoshop and 
“crowdsourcing”.  And driven by a “lead generator” to make it look local.  And 
advertising $19 but paying twice that to Google for the AdWords click.  SCAM, 
SCAM, SCAM.


  From: George Skorup 
  Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 11:44 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

  Nobody says "Let me Bing/Yahoo that". So yeah, Google is how you search 
the interwebs. But I agree on the other point. I do not trust any company that 
has (or can have) such huge control over information. Be it Google, Microsoft, 
Apple, etc... or the government.


  On 2/1/2016 11:36 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would 
change if Google went away tomorrow. 

Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created 
the first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets 
before Apple, and they all failed.

I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. 
She used that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated with 
two Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every paper, thousands of 
emails, etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses, no hardware 
issues, no software issues. Never a single issue. No OS reload, no malware 
scanners, nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of Apple's products... 
they just work.

Travis



On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

  The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would 
change?  Really???

  Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets 
probably won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without 
them.  What else do they have?

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> wrote:

At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed 
the computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the 
music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo, 
Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a "product". 
They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like Facebook.

Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES. 

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and 
hard work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or 
groundbreaking.

Travis


On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

  I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than 
Apple with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgra

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

ctrl+shift+n

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
> OK, I just tried it on Google, and they do seem to have cleaned that up
> quite a bit.
>
> I used to get results for all sorts of cable companies that aren't within a
> hundred miles.  In fact, I used to be able to type in "high speed Internet
> in Bumfuck Egypt, Illinois" and get search results for web pages supposedly
> offering Internet there but that must have been generated dynamically based
> on whatever you were searching for.
>
> I would still have to try the search from a pristine computer, otherwise
> Google is deciding what results to show me based on their data tracking on
> me.
>
> Every time I open some weird link from you guys on this list, websites and
> search engines for the next week decide that's what I'm interested in.  So
> I'm surprised Google doesn't show me movies about whatever Jaime had for
> lunch yesterday.
>
>
> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 9:50 AM
>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>
> Right now if I go to Bing, for example, and type in "what ISPs are in
> my $zipcode"...
>
> It's not using the location data correctly, for one. The first few
> pages are nothing but spam and clickbait. There isn't a single, actual
> provider one that page.
>
> Using Yahoo I get the same thing, but there's even more ads.
>
> Using google, there are actual real results of providers that actually
> provide service in this area, as well as a handful of fairly
> trustworth review sites.
>
> Tell me, which one is more useful?
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:38 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>>
>> It doesn’t bother you that a search for high speed Internet in your town
>> is
>> useless because Google lets lead generators game their system so that the
>> first several pages of results are ISPs that don’t even have service
>> there?
>>
>> Money and monopoly power has corrupted Google’s search business (and
>> associated services like Maps).  They are obviously not strapped for cash,
>> they should spend a few bucks fixing their search engine.  Until they do,
>> we
>> should look for and use better search engines.  So don’t use Google to
>> find
>> a locksmith.  Better choices like Yelp and Angies List come to mind, plus
>> probably some I’m not thinking of at the moment.
>>
>>
>> From: Josh Reynolds
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 9:05 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>>
>>
>> You just described every large scale data source ever.
>>
>> Congratulations
>>
>> On Feb 2, 2016 8:41 AM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Locked out of your house?  Don’t use Google to find a locksmith.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/business/fake-online-locksmiths-may-be-out-to-pick-your-pocket-too.html
>>>
>>> Read the whole article to find out just how badly Google search and map
>>> results are corrupted.  This locksmith must be legit, I can see their
>>> building on Google Maps.  Oh, not really there, created by Photoshop and
>>> “crowdsourcing”.  And driven by a “lead generator” to make it look local.
>>> And advertising $19 but paying twice that to Google for the AdWords
>>> click.
>>> SCAM, SCAM, SCAM.
>>>
>>>
>>> From: George Skorup
>>> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 11:44 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>>>
>>> Nobody says "Let me Bing/Yahoo that". So yeah, Google is how you search
>>> the interwebs. But I agree on the other point. I do not trust any company
>>> that has (or can have) such huge control over information. Be it Google,
>>> Microsoft, Apple, etc... or the government.
>>>
>>> On 2/1/2016 11:36 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>> I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would
>>> change
>>> if Google went away tomorrow.
>>>
>>> Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created the
>>> first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets
>>> before
>>> Apple, and they all failed.
>>>
>>> I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. She
>>> used that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated
>>> with
>>> two Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop.

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

It doesn’t bother you that a search for high speed Internet in your town is 
useless because Google lets lead generators game their system so that the first 
several pages of results are ISPs that don’t even have service there?

Money and monopoly power has corrupted Google’s search business (and associated 
services like Maps).  They are obviously not strapped for cash, they should 
spend a few bucks fixing their search engine.  Until they do, we should look 
for and use better search engines.  So don’t use Google to find a locksmith.  
Better choices like Yelp and Angies List come to mind, plus probably some I’m 
not thinking of at the moment.


From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 9:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

You just described every large scale data source ever.

Congratulations

On Feb 2, 2016 8:41 AM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

  Locked out of your house?  Don’t use Google to find a locksmith.

  
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/business/fake-online-locksmiths-may-be-out-to-pick-your-pocket-too.html

  Read the whole article to find out just how badly Google search and map 
results are corrupted.  This locksmith must be legit, I can see their building 
on Google Maps.  Oh, not really there, created by Photoshop and 
“crowdsourcing”.  And driven by a “lead generator” to make it look local.  And 
advertising $19 but paying twice that to Google for the AdWords click.  SCAM, 
SCAM, SCAM.


  From: George Skorup 
  Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 11:44 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

  Nobody says "Let me Bing/Yahoo that". So yeah, Google is how you search the 
interwebs. But I agree on the other point. I do not trust any company that has 
(or can have) such huge control over information. Be it Google, Microsoft, 
Apple, etc... or the government.


  On 2/1/2016 11:36 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would change 
if Google went away tomorrow. 

Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created the 
first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets before 
Apple, and they all failed.

I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. She 
used that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated with two 
Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every paper, thousands of emails, 
etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses, no hardware issues, 
no software issues. Never a single issue. No OS reload, no malware scanners, 
nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of Apple's products... they just 
work.

Travis



On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

  The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would change? 
 Really???

  Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably 
won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without them.  
What else do they have?

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> wrote:

At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the 
computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the music 
world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, 
Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a "product". They don't 
"sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like Facebook.

Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES. 

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard 
work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or 
groundbreaking.

Travis


On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

  I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple 
with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer 
electronics.


  Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's 
information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's not 
just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had incredible 
foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.


  On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:


http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's 
run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 
years old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

OK, I just tried it on Google, and they do seem to have cleaned that up 
quite a bit.


I used to get results for all sorts of cable companies that aren't within a 
hundred miles.  In fact, I used to be able to type in "high speed Internet 
in Bumfuck Egypt, Illinois" and get search results for web pages supposedly 
offering Internet there but that must have been generated dynamically based 
on whatever you were searching for.


I would still have to try the search from a pristine computer, otherwise 
Google is deciding what results to show me based on their data tracking on 
me.


Every time I open some weird link from you guys on this list, websites and 
search engines for the next week decide that's what I'm interested in.  So 
I'm surprised Google doesn't show me movies about whatever Jaime had for 
lunch yesterday.



-Original Message- 
From: Josh Reynolds

Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 9:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Right now if I go to Bing, for example, and type in "what ISPs are in
my $zipcode"...

It's not using the location data correctly, for one. The first few
pages are nothing but spam and clickbait. There isn't a single, actual
provider one that page.

Using Yahoo I get the same thing, but there's even more ads.

Using google, there are actual real results of providers that actually
provide service in this area, as well as a handful of fairly
trustworth review sites.

Tell me, which one is more useful?

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:38 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
It doesn’t bother you that a search for high speed Internet in your town 
is

useless because Google lets lead generators game their system so that the
first several pages of results are ISPs that don’t even have service 
there?


Money and monopoly power has corrupted Google’s search business (and
associated services like Maps).  They are obviously not strapped for cash,
they should spend a few bucks fixing their search engine.  Until they do, 
we
should look for and use better search engines.  So don’t use Google to 
find

a locksmith.  Better choices like Yelp and Angies List come to mind, plus
probably some I’m not thinking of at the moment.


From: Josh Reynolds
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 9:05 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day


You just described every large scale data source ever.

Congratulations

On Feb 2, 2016 8:41 AM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:


Locked out of your house?  Don’t use Google to find a locksmith.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/business/fake-online-locksmiths-may-be-out-to-pick-your-pocket-too.html

Read the whole article to find out just how badly Google search and map
results are corrupted.  This locksmith must be legit, I can see their
building on Google Maps.  Oh, not really there, created by Photoshop and
“crowdsourcing”.  And driven by a “lead generator” to make it look local.
And advertising $19 but paying twice that to Google for the AdWords 
click.

SCAM, SCAM, SCAM.


From: George Skorup
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 11:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Nobody says "Let me Bing/Yahoo that". So yeah, Google is how you search
the interwebs. But I agree on the other point. I do not trust any company
that has (or can have) such huge control over information. Be it Google,
Microsoft, Apple, etc... or the government.

On 2/1/2016 11:36 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would 
change

if Google went away tomorrow.

Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created the
first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets 
before

Apple, and they all failed.

I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. She
used that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated 
with
two Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every paper, thousands 
of

emails, etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses, no
hardware issues, no software issues. Never a single issue. No OS reload, 
no
malware scanners, nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of 
Apple's

products... they just work.

Travis


On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would change?
Really???

Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably
won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without 
them.

What else do they have?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> wrote:


At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the
computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and 
the

music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo,
Webcrawler, Altavista and several othe

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread CBB - Jay Fuller

oh?

  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Hohhof 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 9:38 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

  It doesn’t bother you that a search for high speed Internet in your town is 
useless because Google lets lead generators game their system so that the first 
several pages of results are ISPs that don’t even have service there?

  Money and monopoly power has corrupted Google’s search business (and 
associated services like Maps).  They are obviously not strapped for cash, they 
should spend a few bucks fixing their search engine.  Until they do, we should 
look for and use better search engines.  So don’t use Google to find a 
locksmith.  Better choices like Yelp and Angies List come to mind, plus 
probably some I’m not thinking of at the moment.

  From: Josh Reynolds 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 9:05 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

  You just described every large scale data source ever.

  Congratulations

  On Feb 2, 2016 8:41 AM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

Locked out of your house?  Don’t use Google to find a locksmith.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/business/fake-online-locksmiths-may-be-out-to-pick-your-pocket-too.html

Read the whole article to find out just how badly Google search and map 
results are corrupted.  This locksmith must be legit, I can see their building 
on Google Maps.  Oh, not really there, created by Photoshop and 
“crowdsourcing”.  And driven by a “lead generator” to make it look local.  And 
advertising $19 but paying twice that to Google for the AdWords click.  SCAM, 
SCAM, SCAM.

From: George Skorup 
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 11:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Nobody says "Let me Bing/Yahoo that". So yeah, Google is how you search the 
interwebs. But I agree on the other point. I do not trust any company that has 
(or can have) such huge control over information. Be it Google, Microsoft, 
Apple, etc... or the government.

On 2/1/2016 11:36 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

  I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would 
change if Google went away tomorrow. 

  Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created the 
first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets before 
Apple, and they all failed.

  I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. She 
used that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated with two 
Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every paper, thousands of emails, 
etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses, no hardware issues, 
no software issues. Never a single issue. No OS reload, no malware scanners, 
nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of Apple's products... they just 
work.

  Travis

  On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would 
change?  Really???

Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably 
won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without them.  
What else do they have?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> wrote:

  At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the 
computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the music 
world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, 
Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a "product". They don't 
"sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like Facebook.

  Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES. 

  Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard 
work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or 
groundbreaking.

  Travis

  On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than 
Apple with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer 
electronics.

Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's 
information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's not 
just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had incredible 
foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> 
wrote:

http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

  "The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money.

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Tablets would most certainly be around, companies started to try and 
make them in the 1980s.  MP3 players too.  All these things existed well 
before the iPod and the iPhone, and multiple companies had been working 
on them already for decades.  These things are all just glorified PDA's, 
the Palm Pilot I had in 1998 pretty must disproves any "X wouldn't be 
around without Y company"  Technology is technology and progress is 
progress... there's nothing groundbreaking here about Apple AT ALL.  My 
first couple PDA's had WiFi and GPS and there was definitely a Palm 
Pilot PDA/Phone combo out around the time Blackberry's started to appear 
a lot more, this is all before the iPhone it may be just before or 
around when the iPod first came out though.  To think that technology 
wouldn't have made that leap to full modern smartphones and tablets on 
its own without the likes of Steve Jobs is just laughable.



-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | sam...@plexicomm.net



-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/2/2016 12:28:15 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would 
change?  Really???


Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably 
won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without 
them.  What else do they have?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> wrote:
At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the 
computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and 
the music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying 
Yahoo, Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They 
aren't a "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, 
just like Facebook.


Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard 
work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new 
or groundbreaking.


Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple 
with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy 
consumer electronics.


Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's 
information and communications. When you consider the value of those, 
it's not just the most valuable company in matters of money. The 
founders had incredible foresight in addition to their intelligence 
and hard work.


On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:

http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's 
run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just 
electrons."

~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 
years old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(


Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Do any of them besides ads/search make money, though?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:22 PM, Sam Kirsch <sam...@plexicomm.net> wrote:

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Google_products
>
> There's a little more to them then just a Search Engine ;)
>
> I don't see how anything changes with Apple not being around either.
> There's absolutely nothing in an Apple product that's super
> groundbreaking... Many companies had already attempted to combine a PDA and
> a Cell Phone long before the iPhone, they just did it the most mass
> marketable way first.  And that goes for just able every Apple product I
> can think of.  MP3 players existed.  Music platforms existed.  They just
> weren't unified and mass marketed in the same way... so, Apple really just
> copied a bunch of other guys too (and has been doing that since the
> company's inception, the mouse, the GUI, etc) NOTHING CHANGES ;)
>
>
>
> *-- Samuel Kirsch, Network SupportPlexicomm - Internet Solutions |
> www.plexicomm.net <http://www.plexicomm.net>*
> *Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 <1.866.759.4678%20x109> | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
> <1.866.852.4688>*
> *Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 <1.866.759.9713> | sam...@plexicomm.net
> <sam...@plexicomm.net>*
>
>
>
> -- Original Message ------
> From: "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/2/2016 12:22:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>
>
> At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the
> computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the
> music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo,
> Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a
> "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
> Facebook.
>
> Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.
>
> Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard
> work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or
> groundbreaking.
>
> Travis
>
> On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>
> I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple with
> their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer
> electronics.
>
> Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
> information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's
> not just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had
> incredible foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.
>
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> <http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113>
>> http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113
>>
>> "The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run by
>> little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
>> ~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)
>>
>> Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years
>> old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Jaime Solorza

Quesadillas my daughter made me
On Feb 2, 2016 9:26 AM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

> OK, I just tried it on Google, and they do seem to have cleaned that up
> quite a bit.
>
> I used to get results for all sorts of cable companies that aren't within
> a hundred miles.  In fact, I used to be able to type in "high speed
> Internet in Bumfuck Egypt, Illinois" and get search results for web pages
> supposedly offering Internet there but that must have been generated
> dynamically based on whatever you were searching for.
>
> I would still have to try the search from a pristine computer, otherwise
> Google is deciding what results to show me based on their data tracking on
> me.
>
> Every time I open some weird link from you guys on this list, websites and
> search engines for the next week decide that's what I'm interested in.  So
> I'm surprised Google doesn't show me movies about whatever Jaime had for
> lunch yesterday.
>
>
> -Original Message- From: Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 9:50 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>
> Right now if I go to Bing, for example, and type in "what ISPs are in
> my $zipcode"...
>
> It's not using the location data correctly, for one. The first few
> pages are nothing but spam and clickbait. There isn't a single, actual
> provider one that page.
>
> Using Yahoo I get the same thing, but there's even more ads.
>
> Using google, there are actual real results of providers that actually
> provide service in this area, as well as a handful of fairly
> trustworth review sites.
>
> Tell me, which one is more useful?
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:38 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
>> It doesn’t bother you that a search for high speed Internet in your town
>> is
>> useless because Google lets lead generators game their system so that the
>> first several pages of results are ISPs that don’t even have service
>> there?
>>
>> Money and monopoly power has corrupted Google’s search business (and
>> associated services like Maps).  They are obviously not strapped for cash,
>> they should spend a few bucks fixing their search engine.  Until they do,
>> we
>> should look for and use better search engines.  So don’t use Google to
>> find
>> a locksmith.  Better choices like Yelp and Angies List come to mind, plus
>> probably some I’m not thinking of at the moment.
>>
>>
>> From: Josh Reynolds
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 9:05 AM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>>
>>
>> You just described every large scale data source ever.
>>
>> Congratulations
>>
>> On Feb 2, 2016 8:41 AM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Locked out of your house?  Don’t use Google to find a locksmith.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/business/fake-online-locksmiths-may-be-out-to-pick-your-pocket-too.html
>>>
>>> Read the whole article to find out just how badly Google search and map
>>> results are corrupted.  This locksmith must be legit, I can see their
>>> building on Google Maps.  Oh, not really there, created by Photoshop and
>>> “crowdsourcing”.  And driven by a “lead generator” to make it look local.
>>> And advertising $19 but paying twice that to Google for the AdWords
>>> click.
>>> SCAM, SCAM, SCAM.
>>>
>>>
>>> From: George Skorup
>>> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 11:44 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>>>
>>> Nobody says "Let me Bing/Yahoo that". So yeah, Google is how you search
>>> the interwebs. But I agree on the other point. I do not trust any company
>>> that has (or can have) such huge control over information. Be it Google,
>>> Microsoft, Apple, etc... or the government.
>>>
>>> On 2/1/2016 11:36 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>> I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would
>>> change
>>> if Google went away tomorrow.
>>>
>>> Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created the
>>> first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets
>>> before
>>> Apple, and they all failed.
>>>
>>> I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. She
>>> used that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated
>>> with
>>> two Bachelor's degrees... us

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

I think its like $58 billion in advertising vs $8 billion in other 
stuff.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Google fanboy, but I am a fan of realism 
;)  There's nothing sad about Apple not being the top company anymore, 
just like there will be nothing sad when Google is knocked off the top.


But I'm thoroughly aware that *I* am Google's product.  We are all 
Google's Product, and we're being sold to the highest bidder who wants 
to market to whatever niche market we represent.


At home my Youtube Ad's are all Video Games and Geeky Movies.
At work my Youtube Ad's are 90% Cambium =D
I am the product.  So I agree that the whole 'Do No Evil' thing is BS 
and I'm not the biggest fan of Google overall, but as long as MomCorp 
doesn't start beaming Ads directly into my Dreams, I think I can live 
with being a product.



-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | sam...@plexicomm.net



-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/2/2016 12:33:59 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day


Do any of them besides ads/search make money, though?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 12:22 PM, Sam Kirsch <sam...@plexicomm.net> 
wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Google_products

There's a little more to them then just a Search Engine ;)

I don't see how anything changes with Apple not being around either.  
There's absolutely nothing in an Apple product that's super 
groundbreaking... Many companies had already attempted to combine a 
PDA and a Cell Phone long before the iPhone, they just did it the most 
mass marketable way first.  And that goes for just able every Apple 
product I can think of.  MP3 players existed.  Music platforms 
existed.  They just weren't unified and mass marketed in the same 
way... so, Apple really just copied a bunch of other guys too (and has 
been doing that since the company's inception, the mouse, the GUI, 
etc) NOTHING CHANGES ;)



-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | sam...@plexicomm.net



-- Original Message --
From: "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/2/2016 12:22:36 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the 
computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and 
the music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying 
Yahoo, Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They 
aren't a "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, 
just like Facebook.


Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard 
work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new 
or groundbreaking.


Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than 
Apple with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy 
consumer electronics.


Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's 
information and communications. When you consider the value of 
those, it's not just the most valuable company in matters of money. 
The founders had incredible foresight in addition to their 
intelligence and hard work.


On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> 
wrote:

http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's 
run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just 
electrons."

~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 
years old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(


Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Yup. I had a Handspring Visor back in the pre-smartphone era. Then I had 
a Palm Treo, and eventually a Palm Pre. Those were all great machines in 
the day. They got dated, and I moved on.


Twenty years from now might be very interesting, or very boring. Hope 
I'm still around to find out.


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 2/2/2016 9:34 AM, Sam Kirsch wrote:
Tablets would most certainly be around, companies started to try and 
make them in the 1980s.  MP3 players too.  All these things existed 
well before the iPod and the iPhone, and multiple companies had been 
working on them already for decades.  These things are all just 
glorified PDA's, the Palm Pilot I had in 1998 pretty must disproves 
any "X wouldn't be around without Y company"  Technology is technology 
and progress is progress... there's nothing groundbreaking here about 
Apple AT ALL.  My first couple PDA's had WiFi and GPS and there was 
definitely a Palm Pilot PDA/Phone combo out around the time 
Blackberry's started to appear a lot more, this is all before the 
iPhone it may be just before or around when the iPod first came 
out though.  To think that technology wouldn't have made that leap to 
full modern smartphones and tablets on its own without the likes of 
Steve Jobs is just laughable.

*-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net 
<http://www.plexicomm.net>**

Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688*
*Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | *sam...@plexicomm.net* 
<mailto:sam...@plexicomm.net>*

-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com 
<mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/2/2016 12:28:15 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day


The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would 
change?  Really???


Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets 
probably won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to 
fruition without them.  What else do they have?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net 
<mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:


At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed
the computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created
apps, and the music world. Google created a search engine
(actually copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, Altavista and several others
at the time). They aren't a "product". They don't "sell"
anything. They are a webpage, just like Facebook.

Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and
hard work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create
anything new or groundbreaking.

Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than
Apple with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable /
crappy consumer electronics.

Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
information and communications. When you consider the value of
those, it's not just the most valuable company in matters of
money. The founders had incredible foresight in addition to
their intelligence and hard work.

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net
<mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:


http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or
money. It's run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of
data. It's all just electrons."
~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less
than 19 years old is now the most valuable company in the
world. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Cassidy B. Larson

Has anybody read this (Digital Wars)?

http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Wars-Google-Microsoft-Internet/dp/0749464135 
<http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Wars-Google-Microsoft-Internet/dp/0749464135>

It talks all about the revolutionary ideas that each (Apple, Google and 
Microsoft) has put into their products over the years.

If I remember right, from the book (I read it last summer):
iPod had the click wheel user interface, not just a button to go back and 
forward like pre-iPod MP3 players. It had a higher count of songs you could 
play as well since it was the first to introduce the 1.8in drive from Toshiba.
iPhone had touch screen interface, not needing a stylus, pinch-zoom, and other 
UI enhancements. No keyboard taking up screen real estate that others prior to 
its time had.

Is suggest a read (or a listen, in my case).

The groundbreaking thing at Apple is the marketing team. They make people WANT 
to spend their hard earned month on their products. Whether it’s better/worse 
than others on the market we can debate all day. All that matters is the users 
experience, which for me is better than an Android :).

-c



> On Feb 2, 2016, at 10:34 AM, Sam Kirsch <sam...@plexicomm.net> wrote:
> 
> Tablets would most certainly be around, companies started to try and make 
> them in the 1980s.  MP3 players too.  All these things existed well before 
> the iPod and the iPhone, and multiple companies had been working on them 
> already for decades.  These things are all just glorified PDA's, the Palm 
> Pilot I had in 1998 pretty must disproves any "X wouldn't be around without Y 
> company"  Technology is technology and progress is progress... there's 
> nothing groundbreaking here about Apple AT ALL.  My first couple PDA's had 
> WiFi and GPS and there was definitely a Palm Pilot PDA/Phone combo out around 
> the time Blackberry's started to appear a lot more, this is all before the 
> iPhone it may be just before or around when the iPod first came out 
> though.  To think that technology wouldn't have made that leap to full modern 
> smartphones and tablets on its own without the likes of Steve Jobs is just 
> laughable.
> 
> 
> -- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
> Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net <http://www.plexicomm.net/>
> Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
> Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | sam...@plexicomm.net 
> <mailto:sam...@plexicomm.net>
> 
> 
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com 
> <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>>
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Sent: 2/2/2016 12:28:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
> 
>> The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would change?  
>> Really???
>> 
>> Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably won't 
>> exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without them.  What 
>> else do they have?
>> 
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>> On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net 
>> <mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:
>> At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the 
>> computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the 
>> music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo, 
>> Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a 
>> "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like 
>> Facebook.
>> 
>> Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.
>> 
>> Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard work... 
>> but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or 
>> groundbreaking.
>> 
>> Travis
>> 
>> On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>>> I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple with 
>>> their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer 
>>> electronics.
>>> 
>>> Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's 
>>> information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's 
>>> not just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had 
>>> incredible foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net 
>>> <mailto:t...@ida.net>> wrote:
>>>  
>>> <http://www.ibt

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Alibaba?  Baidu?

-Original Message- 
From: Travis Johnson

Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 11:09 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

Thanks... I think. LOL

I'm not a "wait in line" for an iPhone person. I use PC laptops and
desktops. I do have an iPhone, and have had since the first one came
out. I hate iTunes with a passion.

I just have an irritation that a company that is literally just a
webpage is now worth more than "real" companies like Apple or GM or
Wells Fargo... it totally boggles my mind.

Facebook will take over Google in the next few years... so then the
question is, what will take over Facebook 10 years from now?

Travis

On 2/2/2016 12:17 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

Travis, you are such an Apple fan boy, I can't stand it.

When Apple was the most valuable corporation, you proudly proclaim them to 
be "the biggest company on the planet".

Well they weren't then, and they aren't now. Get over it.

And now you poo poo that Google is the most valuable corporation. We it's 
only temporary, so it will be easier for you to get over.

Apple never really invented anything. Pretty much everything they've 
"invented" has been a collection of things they "borrowed" from someone 
else (including Google BTW).

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 2/1/2016 8:55 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run by 
little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."

~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years 
old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Mike Hammett

I had a similar experience with a PC. It's not so much about the machine, but 
the intelligence of the operator. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 11:36:40 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day 

I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would change if 
Google went away tomorrow. 

Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created the first 
iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets before Apple, 
and they all failed. 

I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. She used 
that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated with two 
Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every paper, thousands of emails, 
etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses, no hardware issues, 
no software issues. Never a single issue. No OS reload, no malware scanners, 
nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of Apple's products... they just 
work. 

Travis 



On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: 



The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would change? 
Really??? 
Apple is gone. People buy Blackberries and Android. Tablets probably won't 
exist. Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without them. What else 
do they have? 
Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 
On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" < t...@ida.net > wrote: 



At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the computing 
world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the music world. 
Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, Altavista 
and several others at the time). They aren't a "product". They don't "sell" 
anything. They are a webpage, just like Facebook. 

Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES. 

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard work... 
but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or groundbreaking. 

Travis 


On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote: 




I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple with 
their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer electronics. 

Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's information 
and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's not just the 
most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had incredible 
foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work. 



On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson < t...@ida.net > wrote: 


http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113
 

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run by 
little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons." 
~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992) 

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years old is 
now the most valuable company in the world. :( 

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Lewis Bergman

The trouble with a valuation as high as Google, and to a lesser extent,
Apple, is that there is a huge "hype" or inflationary affect on the stock
price. A company like Exxon with real balance sheets representing real
assets, a huge, diverse workforce capable of building and creating real
things. Things that would would drastically affect the way the world works,
lives, plays and behaves every minute of the day if they didn't exist.
Those type of companies have been devalued to the point that at certain
points their cap rates sometimes reflect a discount on their balance
sheets. I know when I look at what a Google or apple valuation represents
that is what I think about and what I get from Travis' comments. The fact
that there is little tangible value in what the company owns. Intangible
value can easily disappear as quickly as it appeared. Look at Yahoo.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016, 6:33 AM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

> I had a similar experience with a PC. It's not so much about the machine,
> but the intelligence of the operator.
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ----------
> *From: *"Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, February 1, 2016 11:36:40 PM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>
> I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would change
> if Google went away tomorrow.
>
> Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created the
> first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets
> before Apple, and they all failed.
>
> I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. She
> used that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated with
> two Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every paper, thousands of
> emails, etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses, no
> hardware issues, no software issues. Never a single issue. No OS reload, no
> malware scanners, nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of Apple's
> products... they just work.
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would change?
> Really???
>
> Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably
> won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without
> them.  What else do they have?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>
>> At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the
>> computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the
>> music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo,
>> Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a
>> "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
>> Facebook.
>>
>> Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.
>>
>> Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard
>> work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or
>> groundbreaking.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>> On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>>
>> I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple
>> with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer
>> electronics.
>>
>> Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
>> information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's
>> not just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had
>> incredible foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson < <t...@ida.net>
>> t...@ida.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> <http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113>
>>> http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113
>>>
>>> "The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run
>>> by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
>>> ~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)
>>>
>>> Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years
>>> old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Mike Hammett

Smart phones and MP3 players existed before Apple got into the game, they would 
have improved without Apple. 

Apple isn't tech, Apple is fashion. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 11:28:16 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day 


The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would change? 
Really??? 
Apple is gone. People buy Blackberries and Android. Tablets probably won't 
exist. Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without them. What else 
do they have? 
Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 
On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" < t...@ida.net > wrote: 



At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the computing 
world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the music world. 
Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, Altavista 
and several others at the time). They aren't a "product". They don't "sell" 
anything. They are a webpage, just like Facebook. 

Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES. 

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard work... 
but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or groundbreaking. 

Travis 


On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote: 




I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple with 
their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer electronics. 

Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's information 
and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's not just the 
most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had incredible 
foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work. 



On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson < t...@ida.net > wrote: 


http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113
 

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run by 
little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons." 
~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992) 

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years old is 
now the most valuable company in the world. :( 

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Lewis Bergman

Fashion. I haven't heard it put more secinctly.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016, 6:32 AM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

> Smart phones and MP3 players existed before Apple got into the game, they
> would have improved without Apple.
>
> Apple isn't tech, Apple is fashion.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, February 1, 2016 11:28:16 PM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>
> The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would change?
> Really???
>
> Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably
> won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without
> them.  What else do they have?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>
>> At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the
>> computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the
>> music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo,
>> Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a
>> "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
>> Facebook.
>>
>> Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.
>>
>> Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard
>> work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or
>> groundbreaking.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>> On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>>
> I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple with
>> their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer
>> electronics.
>>
>> Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
>> information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's
>> not just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had
>> incredible foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> <http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113>
>>> http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113
>>>
>>> "The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run
>>> by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
>>> ~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)
>>>
>>> Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years
>>> old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Lewis Bergman

The latest example, the apple watch, is a great example. There were dozens
of there already but when alone introduces thiers it seems like half the
world acted like a smart watch didn't exist until apple introduced thiers

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016, 6:32 AM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

> Smart phones and MP3 players existed before Apple got into the game, they
> would have improved without Apple.
>
> Apple isn't tech, Apple is fashion.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Josh Luthman" <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, February 1, 2016 11:28:16 PM
>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] SAD day
>
> The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would change?
> Really???
>
> Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably
> won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without
> them.  What else do they have?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>
>> At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the
>> computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the
>> music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo,
>> Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a
>> "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
>> Facebook.
>>
>> Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.
>>
>> Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard
>> work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or
>> groundbreaking.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>> On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>>
> I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple with
>> their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer
>> electronics.
>>
>> Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
>> information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's
>> not just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had
>> incredible foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> <http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113>
>>> http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113
>>>
>>> "The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run
>>> by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
>>> ~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)
>>>
>>> Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years
>>> old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Mike Hammett

I agree that they're both guilty of over-hype. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 6:56:33 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day 


The trouble with a valuation as high as Google, and to a lesser extent, Apple, 
is that there is a huge "hype" or inflationary affect on the stock price. A 
company like Exxon with real balance sheets representing real assets, a huge, 
diverse workforce capable of building and creating real things. Things that 
would would drastically affect the way the world works, lives, plays and 
behaves every minute of the day if they didn't exist. 
Those type of companies have been devalued to the point that at certain points 
their cap rates sometimes reflect a discount on their balance sheets. I know 
when I look at what a Google or apple valuation represents that is what I think 
about and what I get from Travis' comments. The fact that there is little 
tangible value in what the company owns. Intangible value can easily disappear 
as quickly as it appeared. Look at Yahoo. 


On Tue, Feb 2, 2016, 6:33 AM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




I had a similar experience with a PC. It's not so much about the machine, but 
the intelligence of the operator. 






- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 








From: "Travis Johnson" < t...@ida.net > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, February 1, 2016 11:36:40 PM 



Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day 




I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would change if 
Google went away tomorrow. 

Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created the first 
iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets before Apple, 
and they all failed. 

I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. She used 
that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated with two 
Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every paper, thousands of emails, 
etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses, no hardware issues, 
no software issues. Never a single issue. No OS reload, no malware scanners, 
nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of Apple's products... they just 
work. 

Travis 



On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: 






The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would change? 
Really??? 
Apple is gone. People buy Blackberries and Android. Tablets probably won't 
exist. Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without them. What else 
do they have? 
Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 
On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" < t...@ida.net > wrote: 



At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the computing 
world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the music world. 
Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, Altavista 
and several others at the time). They aren't a "product". They don't "sell" 
anything. They are a webpage, just like Facebook. 

Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES. 

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard work... 
but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or groundbreaking. 

Travis 


On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote: 




I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple with 
their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer electronics. 

Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's information 
and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's not just the 
most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had incredible 
foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work. 



On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson < t...@ida.net > wrote: 


http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113
 

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run by 
little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons." 
~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992) 

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years old is 
now the most valuable company in the world. :( 

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-02 Thread Faisal Imtiaz

Travis, 

I don't know if you see any irony in your comment below... 

Take a pause and reflect ...especially coming from someone who makes a living 
by selling Internet Access ! 

LOL ! 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2016 12:22:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

> At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the computing
> world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the music world.
> Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, Altavista
> and several others at the time). They aren't a "product". They don't "sell"
> anything. They are a webpage, just like Facebook.

> Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.

> Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard work... 
> but
> they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or groundbreaking.

> Travis

> On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

>> I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple with 
>> their
>> overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer electronics.

>> Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's information 
>> and
>> communications. When you consider the value of those, it's not just the most
>> valuable company in matters of money. The founders had incredible foresight 
>> in
>> addition to their intelligence and hard work.

>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson < t...@ida.net > wrote:

>>> http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

>>> "The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run by 
>>> little
>>> ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
>>> ~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

>>> Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years old 
>>> is
>>> now the most valuable company in the world. :(

>>> Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

You don't remember BlackBerry was out before iPhone?

I used my IBM laptop from college for a few years.  Same story plus I could
play Halo CE :)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Feb 2, 2016 12:36 AM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:

> I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would change
> if Google went away tomorrow.
>
> Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created the
> first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets
> before Apple, and they all failed.
>
> I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. She
> used that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated with
> two Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every paper, thousands of
> emails, etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses, no
> hardware issues, no software issues. Never a single issue. No OS reload, no
> malware scanners, nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of Apple's
> products... they just work.
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would change?
> Really???
>
> Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably
> won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without
> them.  What else do they have?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:
>
>> At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the
>> computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the
>> music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo,
>> Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a
>> "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
>> Facebook.
>>
>> Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.
>>
>> Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard
>> work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or
>> groundbreaking.
>>
>> Travis
>>
>> On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>>
>> I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple
>> with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer
>> electronics.
>>
>> Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
>> information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's
>> not just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had
>> incredible foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113
>>>
>>> "The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run
>>> by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
>>> ~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)
>>>
>>> Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years
>>> old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(
>>>
>>> Travis
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-01 Thread Bill Prince


Travis, you are such an Apple fan boy, I can't stand it.

When Apple was the most valuable corporation, you proudly proclaim them 
to be "the biggest company on the planet".


Well they weren't then, and they aren't now. Get over it.

And now you poo poo that Google is the most valuable corporation. We 
it's only temporary, so it will be easier for you to get over.


Apple never really invented anything. Pretty much everything they've 
"invented" has been a collection of things they "borrowed" from someone 
else (including Google BTW).



bp


On 2/1/2016 8:55 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113 



"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run 
by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."

~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years 
old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(


Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-01 Thread Seth Mattinen


On 2/1/16 9:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:


Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
information and communications. When you consider the value of those,
it's not just the most valuable company in matters of money. The
founders had incredible foresight in addition to their intelligence and
hard work.



And in the process, building better worlds.

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the
computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and
the music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo,
Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a
"product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
Facebook.

Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard
work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or
groundbreaking.

Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple
with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy
consumer electronics.

Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
information and communications. When you consider the value of those,
it's not just the most valuable company in matters of money. The
founders had incredible foresight in addition to their intelligence
and hard work.

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson > wrote:

http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's
run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just
electrons."
~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19
years old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-01 Thread Josh Luthman

Absolutely.  Do No Evil is complete bullshit.  Believing otherwise is
simply ignorant or naïve.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Feb 2, 2016 12:27 AM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:

> I totally disagree. I don't believe having a single company "control" the
> flow of information like Google does is a good thing. They can now
> literally decide EXACTLY what information you see, when you see it, and how
> it relates to your emails, searches, location, and patterns. We don't allow
> that with radio or TV or newspaper... or any other media company... yet,
> because it's Google with their "Do No Evil" motto, everyone says it's ok.
>
> I have never been a "Big Brother" believer, or even cared about it... but
> if ever there was such a thing, Google is it.
>
> Travis
>
>
> On 2/1/2016 10:13 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
>
>> On 2/1/16 9:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
>>> information and communications. When you consider the value of those,
>>> it's not just the most valuable company in matters of money. The
>>> founders had incredible foresight in addition to their intelligence and
>>> hard work.
>>>
>>
>>
>> And in the process, building better worlds.
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-01 Thread George Skorup

Nobody says "Let me Bing/Yahoo that". So yeah, Google is how you search
the interwebs. But I agree on the other point. I do not trust any
company that has (or can have) such huge control over information. Be it
Google, Microsoft, Apple, etc... or the government.

On 2/1/2016 11:36 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:
I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would
change if Google went away tomorrow.

Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created
the first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried
tablets before Apple, and they all failed.

I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago.
She used that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She
graduated with two Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every
paper, thousands of emails, etc... and she has never had a single
issue... no viruses, no hardware issues, no software issues. Never a
single issue. No OS reload, no malware scanners, nothing. It just
works. Just like all the rest of Apple's products... they just work.

Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would
change? Really???

Apple is gone. People buy Blackberries and Android. Tablets
probably won't exist. Mp3 players would probably have come to
fruition without them. What else do they have?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" > wrote:

At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed
the computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created
apps, and the music world. Google created a search engine
(actually copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, Altavista and several others
at the time). They aren't a "product". They don't "sell"
anything. They are a webpage, just like Facebook.

Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and
hard work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create
anything new or groundbreaking.

Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than
Apple with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable /
crappy consumer electronics.

Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
information and communications. When you consider the value of
those, it's not just the most valuable company in matters of
money. The founders had incredible foresight in addition to
their intelligence and hard work.

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson
wrote:

http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or
money. It's run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of
data. It's all just electrons."
~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less
than 19 years old is now the most valuable company in the
world. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-01 Thread CBB - Jay Fuller

I remember using metacrawler in college (1997-2000ish). It searched the other
7? 8? big "search engines" at the time. What was the biggie back then?
webcrawler? I had a blackberry storm 2005-2006ishI believe that was at the
same time as of just prior to the iphone. Things were just barely starting to
get rolling. I mean barely...that thing barely worked.

But...some of the innovation would have happened without Apple I think. But
Apple has made the products really soar - with their marketing, their
interface, etc.

BTW - I don't own anything Apple. I did win an Apple Ipad from FISPA but my
girlfriend has pretty much made it hers.
: /

Good to see you post Travis :)

- Original Message -
From: Travis Johnson
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would change if
Google went away tomorrow.

Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created the
first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets before
Apple, and they all failed.

I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. She used
that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated with two
Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every paper, thousands of emails,
etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses, no hardware issues,
no software issues. Never a single issue. No OS reload, no malware scanners,
nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of Apple's products... they just
work.

Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would change?
Really???

Apple is gone. People buy Blackberries and Android. Tablets probably
won't exist. Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without them.
What else do they have?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> wrote:

At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the
computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the music
world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo, Webcrawler,
Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a "product". They don't
"sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like Facebook.

Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard
work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or
groundbreaking.

Travis

On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple
with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer
electronics.

Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's not
just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had incredible
foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:

http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's
run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19
years old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-01 Thread Josh Luthman

The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would change?
Really???

Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably
won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without
them.  What else do they have?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson"  wrote:

> At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the
> computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the
> music world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo,
> Webcrawler, Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a
> "product". They don't "sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like
> Facebook.
>
> Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES.
>
> Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard
> work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or
> groundbreaking.
>
> Travis
>
> On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:
>
> I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple with
> their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer
> electronics.
>
> Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
> information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's
> not just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had
> incredible foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.
>
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113
>>
>> "The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run by
>> little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
>> ~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)
>>
>> Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years
>> old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

I totally disagree. I don't believe having a single company "control" 
the flow of information like Google does is a good thing. They can now 
literally decide EXACTLY what information you see, when you see it, and 
how it relates to your emails, searches, location, and patterns. We 
don't allow that with radio or TV or newspaper... or any other media 
company... yet, because it's Google with their "Do No Evil" motto, 
everyone says it's ok.


I have never been a "Big Brother" believer, or even cared about it... 
but if ever there was such a thing, Google is it.


Travis


On 2/1/2016 10:13 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:

On 2/1/16 9:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:


Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
information and communications. When you consider the value of those,
it's not just the most valuable company in matters of money. The
founders had incredible foresight in addition to their intelligence and
hard work.



And in the process, building better worlds.

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-01 Thread CBB - Jay Fuller


Go2net became a corporation during 1998, registered with Nasdaq, with its 
primary asset being MetaCrawler.com. MetaCrawler.com and Go2net were acquired 
by InfoSpace (now Blucora) during 1999 for $4.2 billion. As of March 2015, the 
URL metacrawler.com is being redirected to zoo.com. As of December 2015, the 
search engine on zoo.com has been removed and replaced with online quiz links. 
There is no information available on whether the search engine will come back 
or not.

Wowmonopoly money, or what?  A 4.2 billion investment turned 
into.online quizzes?

That's very.stock marketish... : /


  - Original Message - 
  From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 12:22 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day



  I remember using metacrawler in college (1997-2000ish).  It searched the 
other 7? 8? big "search engines" at the time.  What was the biggie back then?  
webcrawler?  I had a blackberry storm 2005-2006ishI believe that was at the 
same time as of just prior to the iphone.   Things were just barely starting to 
get rolling.  I mean barely...that thing barely worked.

  But...some of the innovation would have happened without Apple I think.  But 
Apple has made the products really soar - with their marketing, their 
interface, etc.

  BTW - I don't own anything Apple.  I did win an Apple Ipad from FISPA but my 
girlfriend has pretty much made it hers.
  : /

  Good to see you post Travis :)

- Original Message - 
From: Travis Johnson 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day


I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would change 
if Google went away tomorrow. 

Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created the 
first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets before 
Apple, and they all failed.

I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. She 
used that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated with two 
Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every paper, thousands of emails, 
etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses, no hardware issues, 
no software issues. Never a single issue. No OS reload, no malware scanners, 
nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of Apple's products... they just 
work.

Travis



On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

  The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would change? 
 Really???

  Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably 
won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without them.  
What else do they have?

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> wrote:

At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the 
computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the music 
world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, 
Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a "product". They don't 
"sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like Facebook.

Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES. 

Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard 
work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or 
groundbreaking.

Travis


On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

  I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple 
with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer 
electronics.


  Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's 
information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's not 
just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had incredible 
foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.



  On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:


http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's 
run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 
years old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(

Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-01 Thread CBB - Jay Fuller

  - Original Message - 
  From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 12:24 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

  Go2net became a corporation during 1998, registered with Nasdaq, with its 
primary asset being MetaCrawler.com. MetaCrawler.com and Go2net were acquired 
by InfoSpace (now Blucora) during 1999 for $4.2 billion. As of March 2015, the 
URL metacrawler.com is being redirected to zoo.com. As of December 2015, the 
search engine on zoo.com has been removed and replaced with online quiz links. 
There is no information available on whether the search engine will come back 
or not.

  Wowmonopoly money, or what?  A 4.2 billion investment turned 
into.online quizzes?

  That's very.stock marketish... : /

- Original Message - 
From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2016 12:22 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

I remember using metacrawler in college (1997-2000ish).  It searched the 
other 7? 8? big "search engines" at the time.  What was the biggie back then?  
webcrawler?  I had a blackberry storm 2005-2006ishI believe that was at the 
same time as of just prior to the iphone.   Things were just barely starting to 
get rolling.  I mean barely...that thing barely worked.

But...some of the innovation would have happened without Apple I think.  
But Apple has made the products really soar - with their marketing, their 
interface, etc.

BTW - I don't own anything Apple.  I did win an Apple Ipad from FISPA but 
my girlfriend has pretty much made it hers.
: /

Good to see you post Travis :)

  - Original Message - 
  From: Travis Johnson 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Monday, February 01, 2016 11:36 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

  I would use Yahoo or Bing or any other search engine. Nothing would 
change if Google went away tomorrow. 

  Blackberries and Android wouldn't even exist if Apple hadn't created the 
first iPhone. Same with tablets... look how many people tried tablets before 
Apple, and they all failed.

  I purchased a Macbook for my daughter headed to college 5 years ago. She 
used that laptop literally every day, for over 5 years. She graduated with two 
Bachelor's degrees... using that same laptop. Every paper, thousands of emails, 
etc... and she has never had a single issue... no viruses, no hardware issues, 
no software issues. Never a single issue. No OS reload, no malware scanners, 
nothing. It just works. Just like all the rest of Apple's products... they just 
work.

  Travis

  On 2/1/2016 10:28 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

The world's most popular site and you don't think the world would 
change?  Really???

Apple is gone.  People buy Blackberries and Android.  Tablets probably 
won't exist.  Mp3 players would probably have come to fruition without them.  
What else do they have?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Feb 2, 2016 12:22 AM, "Travis Johnson" <t...@ida.net> wrote:

  At least Apple makes products... products that literally changed the 
computing world, the phone world, the retail world, created apps, and the music 
world. Google created a search engine (actually copying Yahoo, Webcrawler, 
Altavista and several others at the time). They aren't a "product". They don't 
"sell" anything. They are a webpage, just like Facebook.

  Imagine your life without Google or Facebook. NOTHING CHANGES. 

  Yes, they built a better mousetrap using their intelligence and hard 
work... but they aren't "inventors". They didn't create anything new or 
groundbreaking.

  Travis

  On 2/1/2016 10:09 PM, Colin Stanners wrote:

I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than 
Apple with their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer 
electronics.

Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's 
information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's not 
just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had incredible 
foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> 
wrote:

http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

  "The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. 
It's run by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just 
electrons."
  ~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

  Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 
years old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(

  Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day

2016-02-01 Thread Colin Stanners

I'd much rather Google / Alphabet Inc. be in that position than Apple with
their overpriced yet restricted / non-upgradable / crappy consumer
electronics.

Google is making themselves the curator of access to the world's
information and communications. When you consider the value of those, it's
not just the most valuable company in matters of money. The founders had
incredible foresight in addition to their intelligence and hard work.

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Travis Johnson  wrote:

>
> http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113
>
> "The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run by
> little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."
> ~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)
>
> Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years old
> is now the most valuable company in the world. :(
>
> Travis
>
>

[AFMUG] SAD day


http://www.ibtimes.com/alphabet-inc-goog-surpasses-apple-inc-aapl-become-worlds-most-valuable-public-company-2289113

"The world isn't run by weapons anymore, or energy, or money. It's run 
by little ones and zeroes, little bits of data. It's all just electrons."

~ Cosmo (Sneakers 1992)

Literally, a one page website for a company that is less than 19 years 
old is now the most valuable company in the world. :(


Travis

Re: [AFMUG] SAD day