Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Joshaven Mailing Lists]

If you are isolating the ground system then be sure to also isolate the power 
system.  If the best path to ground is through the power then surges are going 
to try to jump from the tower through your cables to your connection to the 
power grid.


Sincerely,
Joshaven Potter
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, UACA
Google Hangouts: yourt...@gmail.com
Cell & SMS: 1-517-607-9370
supp...@joshaven.com



> On Oct 26, 2015, at 2:57 PM, Gino Villarini  wrote:
> 
> It seems that keeping up with proper grounding its a huge undertaking! is 
> there a easier way? Isolate all gear with SC40 PVC mounts?
> 
> On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 1:37 PM, Chuck McCown  <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
> 550 ohm ground
> Wow, they may have been better floating the tower.
>  
> From: Joshaven Mailing Lists <mailto:lis...@joshaven.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 7:00 PM
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?
>  
> http://www.copper.org/applications/electrical/pq/casestudy/orange_county_A6088.html
>  
> <http://www.copper.org/applications/electrical/pq/casestudy/orange_county_A6088.html>
>  
>  
> Sincerely,
> Joshaven Potter
> MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, UACA
> Google Hangouts: yourt...@gmail.com <mailto:yourt...@gmail.com>
> Cell & SMS: 1-517-607-9370 
> supp...@joshaven.com <mailto:supp...@joshaven.com>
>  
>  
>  
>> On Oct 25, 2015, at 6:37 PM, Ken Hohhof > <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
>>  
>> Well, not necessarily.  It is possible to turn grounding and shielding into 
>> a religion and lose track of what they are accomplishing.
>>  
>> For example, the power company guy in up in the bucket doesn’t rely on 
>> grounding to protect him from high voltage, and neither do the birds sitting 
>> on the wires.  I’m not saying TJ is right, but be careful of adding more 
>> grounding without thinking about what you are grounding, to what, and why.
>>  
>> I also wonder if Gino is seeing this everywhere, or just at a few towers.  I 
>> think some towers have problems and you can’t fix it without going beyond 
>> just your equipment.
>>  
>> If it’s everywhere, did this coincide with a change to a different 
>> brand/model of radios?
>>  
>> From: Mike Hammett <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>
>> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:06 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?
>>  
>> If what you've done isn't working, then it isn't enough, not that it's too 
>> much.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> 
>> From: "TJ Trout" mailto:t...@voltbb.com>>
>> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:04:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?
>> 
>> Gino, 
>>  
>> Try not grounding at all?
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 1:39 PM, George Skorup > <mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>>wrote:
>>> I have no doubt it's the SS clamping that's blowing the fuse. If there was 
>>> no fuse, I bet the SS would continue clamping and start smoking if there's 
>>> enough current to supply it. I don't know if it helps save things, but I'm 
>>> leaning towards yes. Just getting all of the radios on the same DC bus 
>>> seems to have helped quite a bit as well.
>>> 
>>> On 10/25/2015 12:51 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>> Speaking of fuses, I know sometimes we get overcurrent trips on CTMs and 
>>>> SyncInjectors and have to reset them.  Very rare, but always during 
>>>> storms. It is possible this is saving radios, I can't say for sure.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message- From: George Skorup
>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 12:34 PM
>>>> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?
>>>> 
>>>> One thing we've been doing for several years now is a bonding wire up
>>>> the tower. I do not trust the tower steel/leg joints being low enough
>>>> resistance. Failure rate went way down. DC and fuses doesn't hurt either.
>>>> 
>>>> On 10/25/2015 10:57 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
>>>>> So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Typical site setup:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Radios on tower grounded to tower
>>>>> 
>>>>> Shielded cable
>>>>> 
>>>>> Shielded patch panel - grounded
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regular cat5 jumpers
>>>>> 
>>>>> Wbmfg SS - grounded
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regular cat5 jumpers
>>>>> 
>>>>> Poe device
>>>>> 
>>>>> What's wrong?
> 
>  
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Gino Villarini]

It seems that keeping up with proper grounding its a huge undertaking! is
there a easier way? Isolate all gear with SC40 PVC mounts?

On Mon, Oct 26, 2015 at 1:37 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> 550 ohm ground
> Wow, they may have been better floating the tower.
>
> *From:* Joshaven Mailing Lists 
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 25, 2015 7:00 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?
>
>
> http://www.copper.org/applications/electrical/pq/casestudy/orange_county_A6088.html
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Joshaven Potter
> MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, UACA
> Google Hangouts: yourt...@gmail.com
> Cell & SMS: 1-517-607-9370
> supp...@joshaven.com
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 25, 2015, at 6:37 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Well, not necessarily.  It is possible to turn grounding and shielding
> into a religion and lose track of what they are accomplishing.
>
> For example, the power company guy in up in the bucket doesn’t rely on
> grounding to protect him from high voltage, and neither do the birds
> sitting on the wires.  I’m not saying TJ is right, but be careful of adding
> more grounding without thinking about what you are grounding, to what, and
> why.
>
> I also wonder if Gino is seeing this everywhere, or just at a few towers.
> I think some towers have problems and you can’t fix it without going beyond
> just your equipment.
>
> If it’s everywhere, did this coincide with a change to a different
> brand/model of radios?
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett 
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:06 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?
>
> If what you've done isn't working, then it isn't enough, not that it's too
> much.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> --
> *From: *"TJ Trout" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:04:32 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?
>
> Gino,
>
> Try not grounding at all?
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 1:39 PM, George Skorup wrote:
>
>> I have no doubt it's the SS clamping that's blowing the fuse. If there
>> was no fuse, I bet the SS would continue clamping and start smoking if
>> there's enough current to supply it. I don't know if it helps save things,
>> but I'm leaning towards yes. Just getting all of the radios on the same DC
>> bus seems to have helped quite a bit as well.
>>
>> On 10/25/2015 12:51 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>>> Speaking of fuses, I know sometimes we get overcurrent trips on CTMs and
>>> SyncInjectors and have to reset them.  Very rare, but always during storms.
>>> It is possible this is saving radios, I can't say for sure.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: George Skorup
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 12:34 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?
>>>
>>> One thing we've been doing for several years now is a bonding wire up
>>> the tower. I do not trust the tower steel/leg joints being low enough
>>> resistance. Failure rate went way down. DC and fuses doesn't hurt either.
>>>
>>> On 10/25/2015 10:57 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
>>>
>>>> So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!
>>>>
>>>> Typical site setup:
>>>>
>>>> Radios on tower grounded to tower
>>>>
>>>> Shielded cable
>>>>
>>>> Shielded patch panel - grounded
>>>>
>>>> Regular cat5 jumpers
>>>>
>>>> Wbmfg SS - grounded
>>>>
>>>> Regular cat5 jumpers
>>>>
>>>> Poe device
>>>>
>>>> What's wrong?
>>>
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Chuck McCown]

550 ohm ground
Wow, they may have been better floating the tower.

From: Joshaven Mailing Lists 
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 7:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

http://www.copper.org/applications/electrical/pq/casestudy/orange_county_A6088.html
 


Sincerely,
Joshaven Potter
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, UACA
Google Hangouts: yourt...@gmail.com
Cell & SMS: 1-517-607-9370
supp...@joshaven.com



  On Oct 25, 2015, at 6:37 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Well, not necessarily.  It is possible to turn grounding and shielding into a 
religion and lose track of what they are accomplishing.

  For example, the power company guy in up in the bucket doesn’t rely on 
grounding to protect him from high voltage, and neither do the birds sitting on 
the wires.  I’m not saying TJ is right, but be careful of adding more grounding 
without thinking about what you are grounding, to what, and why.

  I also wonder if Gino is seeing this everywhere, or just at a few towers.  I 
think some towers have problems and you can’t fix it without going beyond just 
your equipment.

  If it’s everywhere, did this coincide with a change to a different 
brand/model of radios?

  From: Mike Hammett
  Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:06 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

  If what you've done isn't working, then it isn't enough, not that it's too 
much.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com



--

  From: "TJ Trout" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:04:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?


  Gino,  

  Try not grounding at all?



  On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 1:39 PM, George Skorup wrote:

I have no doubt it's the SS clamping that's blowing the fuse. If there was 
no fuse, I bet the SS would continue clamping and start smoking if there's 
enough current to supply it. I don't know if it helps save things, but I'm 
leaning towards yes. Just getting all of the radios on the same DC bus seems to 
have helped quite a bit as well.

On 10/25/2015 12:51 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  Speaking of fuses, I know sometimes we get overcurrent trips on CTMs and 
SyncInjectors and have to reset them.  Very rare, but always during storms. It 
is possible this is saving radios, I can't say for sure.


  -Original Message- From: George Skorup
  Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 12:34 PM
      To: af@afmug.com
      Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

  One thing we've been doing for several years now is a bonding wire up
  the tower. I do not trust the tower steel/leg joints being low enough
  resistance. Failure rate went way down. DC and fuses doesn't hurt either.

  On 10/25/2015 10:57 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:

So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!

Typical site setup:

Radios on tower grounded to tower

Shielded cable

Shielded patch panel - grounded

Regular cat5 jumpers

Wbmfg SS - grounded

Regular cat5 jumpers

Poe device

What's wrong?

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[David]

Absolutely, We have CTM or CMM which has saved us much grief over the 
past 10yrs.
I have had sites like Gino has and each one has its own unique grounding 
issues but if looked at close enough youll find its something as simple 
as a

poor ground back to the mains ground. Or no ground at all.



On 10/25/2015 03:39 PM, George Skorup wrote:
I have no doubt it's the SS clamping that's blowing the fuse. If there 
was no fuse, I bet the SS would continue clamping and start smoking if 
there's enough current to supply it. I don't know if it helps save 
things, but I'm leaning towards yes. Just getting all of the radios on 
the same DC bus seems to have helped quite a bit as well.


On 10/25/2015 12:51 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Speaking of fuses, I know sometimes we get overcurrent trips on CTMs 
and SyncInjectors and have to reset them.  Very rare, but always 
during storms. It is possible this is saving radios, I can't say for 
sure.



-Original Message- From: George Skorup
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 12:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

One thing we've been doing for several years now is a bonding wire up
the tower. I do not trust the tower steel/leg joints being low enough
resistance. Failure rate went way down. DC and fuses doesn't hurt 
either.


On 10/25/2015 10:57 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:

So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!

Typical site setup:

Radios on tower grounded to tower

Shielded cable

Shielded patch panel - grounded

Regular cat5 jumpers

Wbmfg SS - grounded

Regular cat5 jumpers

Poe device

What's wrong?

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[David]

If site itself is poorly grounded then grounding radios will not help.


On 10/25/2015 10:57 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:

So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!

Typical site setup:

Radios on tower grounded to tower

Shielded cable

Shielded patch panel - grounded

Regular cat5 jumpers

Wbmfg SS - grounded

Regular cat5 jumpers

Poe device

What's wrong?

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Chuck Hogg]

You're not doing fiber/DC only like the cellco's have proven to be the best
method.

Regards,
Chuck

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 11:57 AM, Gino Villarini 
wrote:

> So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!
>
> Typical site setup:
>
> Radios on tower grounded to tower
>
> Shielded cable
>
> Shielded patch panel - grounded
>
> Regular cat5 jumpers
>
> Wbmfg SS - grounded
>
> Regular cat5 jumpers
>
> Poe device
>
> What's wrong?
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Ken Hohhof]

Photos of SpaceX launches from launch complex 39 at Kennedy Space Center show 4 
towers topped with white insulators topped topped with lightning rods grounded 
by catenary wires, that form a cage around the launch pads.

For example:
http://johnbiehler.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/17135576246_325faafeaa_b.jpg


From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 10:14 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

Franklin system...

Jaime Solorza

On Oct 25, 2015 8:46 PM, "Stefan Englhardt"  wrote:

  I see the big telcos build a kind of shield above/around their installations. 
Big poles connected with thick grounding cables on the edges.



   Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
  Von: Ken Hohhof  
  Datum: 25.10.2015 23:37 (GMT+01:00) 
  An: af@afmug.com 
  Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong? 


  Well, not necessarily.  It is possible to turn grounding and shielding into a 
religion and lose track of what they are accomplishing.

  For example, the power company guy in up in the bucket doesn’t rely on 
grounding to protect him from high voltage, and neither do the birds sitting on 
the wires.  I’m not saying TJ is right, but be careful of adding more grounding 
without thinking about what you are grounding, to what, and why.

  I also wonder if Gino is seeing this everywhere, or just at a few towers.  I 
think some towers have problems and you can’t fix it without going beyond just 
your equipment.

  If it’s everywhere, did this coincide with a change to a different 
brand/model of radios?

  From: Mike Hammett 
  Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:06 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

  If what you've done isn't working, then it isn't enough, not that it's too 
much.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com



--

  From: "TJ Trout" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:04:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?


  Gino, 

  Try not grounding at all?



  On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 1:39 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

I have no doubt it's the SS clamping that's blowing the fuse. If there was 
no fuse, I bet the SS would continue clamping and start smoking if there's 
enough current to supply it. I don't know if it helps save things, but I'm 
leaning towards yes. Just getting all of the radios on the same DC bus seems to 
have helped quite a bit as well.

On 10/25/2015 12:51 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  Speaking of fuses, I know sometimes we get overcurrent trips on CTMs and 
SyncInjectors and have to reset them.  Very rare, but always during storms. It 
is possible this is saving radios, I can't say for sure.


  -Original Message- From: George Skorup
  Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 12:34 PM
      To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

  One thing we've been doing for several years now is a bonding wire up
  the tower. I do not trust the tower steel/leg joints being low enough
  resistance. Failure rate went way down. DC and fuses doesn't hurt either.

  On 10/25/2015 10:57 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:

So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!

Typical site setup:

Radios on tower grounded to tower

Shielded cable

Shielded patch panel - grounded

Regular cat5 jumpers

Wbmfg SS - grounded

Regular cat5 jumpers

Poe device

What's wrong?

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Jaime Solorza]

Franklin system...

Jaime Solorza
On Oct 25, 2015 8:46 PM, "Stefan Englhardt"  wrote:

> I see the big telcos build a kind of shield above/around their
> installations. Big poles connected with thick grounding cables on the edges.
>
>
>  Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
> Von: Ken Hohhof 
> Datum: 25.10.2015 23:37 (GMT+01:00)
> An: af@afmug.com
> Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?
>
> Well, not necessarily.  It is possible to turn grounding and shielding
> into a religion and lose track of what they are accomplishing.
>
> For example, the power company guy in up in the bucket doesn’t rely on
> grounding to protect him from high voltage, and neither do the birds
> sitting on the wires.  I’m not saying TJ is right, but be careful of adding
> more grounding without thinking about what you are grounding, to what, and
> why.
>
> I also wonder if Gino is seeing this everywhere, or just at a few towers.
> I think some towers have problems and you can’t fix it without going beyond
> just your equipment.
>
> If it’s everywhere, did this coincide with a change to a different
> brand/model of radios?
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett 
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:06 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?
>
> If what you've done isn't working, then it isn't enough, not that it's too
> much.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> ------------------
> *From: *"TJ Trout" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:04:32 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?
>
> Gino,
>
> Try not grounding at all?
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 1:39 PM, George Skorup  wrote:
>
>> I have no doubt it's the SS clamping that's blowing the fuse. If there
>> was no fuse, I bet the SS would continue clamping and start smoking if
>> there's enough current to supply it. I don't know if it helps save things,
>> but I'm leaning towards yes. Just getting all of the radios on the same DC
>> bus seems to have helped quite a bit as well.
>>
>> On 10/25/2015 12:51 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>>> Speaking of fuses, I know sometimes we get overcurrent trips on CTMs and
>>> SyncInjectors and have to reset them.  Very rare, but always during storms.
>>> It is possible this is saving radios, I can't say for sure.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: George Skorup
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 12:34 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?
>>>
>>> One thing we've been doing for several years now is a bonding wire up
>>> the tower. I do not trust the tower steel/leg joints being low enough
>>> resistance. Failure rate went way down. DC and fuses doesn't hurt either.
>>>
>>> On 10/25/2015 10:57 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
>>>
>>>> So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!
>>>>
>>>> Typical site setup:
>>>>
>>>> Radios on tower grounded to tower
>>>>
>>>> Shielded cable
>>>>
>>>> Shielded patch panel - grounded
>>>>
>>>> Regular cat5 jumpers
>>>>
>>>> Wbmfg SS - grounded
>>>>
>>>> Regular cat5 jumpers
>>>>
>>>> Poe device
>>>>
>>>> What's wrong?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Stefan Englhardt]

I see the big telcos build a kind of shield above/around their installations. 
Big poles connected with thick grounding cables on the edges.

 Ursprüngliche Nachricht 
Von: Ken Hohhof  
Datum: 25.10.2015  23:37  (GMT+01:00) 
An: af@afmug.com 
Betreff: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong? 




Well, not necessarily.  It is possible to turn grounding and shielding 
into a religion and lose track of what they are accomplishing.
 
For example, the power company guy in up in the bucket doesn’t rely on 
grounding to protect him from high voltage, and neither do the birds sitting on 
the wires.  I’m not saying TJ is right, but be careful of adding more 
grounding without thinking about what you are grounding, to what, and why.
 
I also wonder if Gino is seeing this everywhere, or just at a few 
towers.  I think some towers have problems and you can’t fix it without 
going beyond just your equipment.
 
If it’s everywhere, did this coincide with a change to a different 
brand/model of radios?
 




From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing 
wrong?
 

If 
what you've done isn't working, then it isn't enough, not that it's too 
much.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent 
Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




From: 
"TJ Trout" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 
Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:04:32 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site 
Grounding - what we are doing wrong?


Gino, 
 
Try not grounding at all?
 
 

 
On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 1:39 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

I 
  have no doubt it's the SS clamping that's blowing the fuse. If there was no 
  fuse, I bet the SS would continue clamping and start smoking if there's 
enough 
  current to supply it. I don't know if it helps save things, but I'm leaning 
  towards yes. Just getting all of the radios on the same DC bus seems to have 
  helped quite a bit as well.

On 10/25/2015 12:51 PM, Ken Hohhof 
  wrote:

  Speaking 
of fuses, I know sometimes we get overcurrent trips on CTMs and 
SyncInjectors and have to reset them.  Very rare, but always during 
storms. It is possible this is saving radios, I can't say for 
sure.


-Original Message- From: George 
Skorup
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 12:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: 
[AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

One 
thing we've been doing for several years now is a bonding wire up
the 
tower. I do not trust the tower steel/leg joints being low 
enough
resistance. Failure rate went way down. DC and fuses doesn't hurt 
either.

On 10/25/2015 10:57 AM, Gino Villarini 
wrote:

So 
  we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!

Typical site 
  setup:

Radios on tower grounded to tower

Shielded 
  cable

Shielded patch panel - grounded

Regular cat5 
  jumpers

Wbmfg SS - grounded

Regular cat5 jumpers

Poe 
  device

What's 
  wrong?






 
 

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Ken Hohhof]

The rubber mat under the equipment racks is interesting, I had never considered 
that.

From: Joshaven Mailing Lists 
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 8:00 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

http://www.copper.org/applications/electrical/pq/casestudy/orange_county_A6088.html
 


Sincerely,
Joshaven Potter
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, UACA
Google Hangouts: yourt...@gmail.com
Cell & SMS: 1-517-607-9370
supp...@joshaven.com



  On Oct 25, 2015, at 6:37 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Well, not necessarily.  It is possible to turn grounding and shielding into a 
religion and lose track of what they are accomplishing.

  For example, the power company guy in up in the bucket doesn’t rely on 
grounding to protect him from high voltage, and neither do the birds sitting on 
the wires.  I’m not saying TJ is right, but be careful of adding more grounding 
without thinking about what you are grounding, to what, and why.

  I also wonder if Gino is seeing this everywhere, or just at a few towers.  I 
think some towers have problems and you can’t fix it without going beyond just 
your equipment.

  If it’s everywhere, did this coincide with a change to a different 
brand/model of radios?

  From: Mike Hammett
  Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:06 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

  If what you've done isn't working, then it isn't enough, not that it's too 
much.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com



--

  From: "TJ Trout" 
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:04:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?


  Gino,  

  Try not grounding at all?



  On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 1:39 PM, George Skorup wrote:

I have no doubt it's the SS clamping that's blowing the fuse. If there was 
no fuse, I bet the SS would continue clamping and start smoking if there's 
enough current to supply it. I don't know if it helps save things, but I'm 
leaning towards yes. Just getting all of the radios on the same DC bus seems to 
have helped quite a bit as well.

On 10/25/2015 12:51 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  Speaking of fuses, I know sometimes we get overcurrent trips on CTMs and 
SyncInjectors and have to reset them.  Very rare, but always during storms. It 
is possible this is saving radios, I can't say for sure.


  -Original Message- From: George Skorup
  Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 12:34 PM
      To: af@afmug.com
      Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

  One thing we've been doing for several years now is a bonding wire up
  the tower. I do not trust the tower steel/leg joints being low enough
  resistance. Failure rate went way down. DC and fuses doesn't hurt either.

  On 10/25/2015 10:57 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:

So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!

Typical site setup:

Radios on tower grounded to tower

Shielded cable

Shielded patch panel - grounded

Regular cat5 jumpers

Wbmfg SS - grounded

Regular cat5 jumpers

Poe device

What's wrong?

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Joshaven Mailing Lists]

http://www.copper.org/applications/electrical/pq/casestudy/orange_county_A6088.html
 
<http://www.copper.org/applications/electrical/pq/casestudy/orange_county_A6088.html>


Sincerely,
Joshaven Potter
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, UACA
Google Hangouts: yourt...@gmail.com
Cell & SMS: 1-517-607-9370
supp...@joshaven.com



> On Oct 25, 2015, at 6:37 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> Well, not necessarily.  It is possible to turn grounding and shielding into a 
> religion and lose track of what they are accomplishing.
>  
> For example, the power company guy in up in the bucket doesn’t rely on 
> grounding to protect him from high voltage, and neither do the birds sitting 
> on the wires.  I’m not saying TJ is right, but be careful of adding more 
> grounding without thinking about what you are grounding, to what, and why.
>  
> I also wonder if Gino is seeing this everywhere, or just at a few towers.  I 
> think some towers have problems and you can’t fix it without going beyond 
> just your equipment.
>  
> If it’s everywhere, did this coincide with a change to a different 
> brand/model of radios?
>  
> From: Mike Hammett <mailto:af...@ics-il.net>
> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:06 PM
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?
>  
> If what you've done isn't working, then it isn't enough, not that it's too 
> much.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
> 
> From: "TJ Trout" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:04:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?
> 
> Gino, 
>  
> Try not grounding at all?
>  
>  
>  
> On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 1:39 PM, George Skorup  <mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>>wrote:
>> I have no doubt it's the SS clamping that's blowing the fuse. If there was 
>> no fuse, I bet the SS would continue clamping and start smoking if there's 
>> enough current to supply it. I don't know if it helps save things, but I'm 
>> leaning towards yes. Just getting all of the radios on the same DC bus seems 
>> to have helped quite a bit as well.
>> 
>> On 10/25/2015 12:51 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>> Speaking of fuses, I know sometimes we get overcurrent trips on CTMs and 
>>> SyncInjectors and have to reset them.  Very rare, but always during storms. 
>>> It is possible this is saving radios, I can't say for sure.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message- From: George Skorup
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 12:34 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?
>>> 
>>> One thing we've been doing for several years now is a bonding wire up
>>> the tower. I do not trust the tower steel/leg joints being low enough
>>> resistance. Failure rate went way down. DC and fuses doesn't hurt either.
>>> 
>>> On 10/25/2015 10:57 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
>>>> So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!
>>>> 
>>>> Typical site setup:
>>>> 
>>>> Radios on tower grounded to tower
>>>> 
>>>> Shielded cable
>>>> 
>>>> Shielded patch panel - grounded
>>>> 
>>>> Regular cat5 jumpers
>>>> 
>>>> Wbmfg SS - grounded
>>>> 
>>>> Regular cat5 jumpers
>>>> 
>>>> Poe device
>>>> 
>>>> What's wrong?

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Ken Hohhof]

Well, not necessarily.  It is possible to turn grounding and shielding into a 
religion and lose track of what they are accomplishing.

For example, the power company guy in up in the bucket doesn’t rely on 
grounding to protect him from high voltage, and neither do the birds sitting on 
the wires.  I’m not saying TJ is right, but be careful of adding more grounding 
without thinking about what you are grounding, to what, and why.

I also wonder if Gino is seeing this everywhere, or just at a few towers.  I 
think some towers have problems and you can’t fix it without going beyond just 
your equipment.

If it’s everywhere, did this coincide with a change to a different brand/model 
of radios?

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:06 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

If what you've done isn't working, then it isn't enough, not that it's too much.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com





From: "TJ Trout" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:04:32 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?


Gino, 

Try not grounding at all?



On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 1:39 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

  I have no doubt it's the SS clamping that's blowing the fuse. If there was no 
fuse, I bet the SS would continue clamping and start smoking if there's enough 
current to supply it. I don't know if it helps save things, but I'm leaning 
towards yes. Just getting all of the radios on the same DC bus seems to have 
helped quite a bit as well.

  On 10/25/2015 12:51 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Speaking of fuses, I know sometimes we get overcurrent trips on CTMs and 
SyncInjectors and have to reset them.  Very rare, but always during storms. It 
is possible this is saving radios, I can't say for sure.


-Original Message- From: George Skorup
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 12:34 PM
    To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

One thing we've been doing for several years now is a bonding wire up
the tower. I do not trust the tower steel/leg joints being low enough
resistance. Failure rate went way down. DC and fuses doesn't hurt either.

On 10/25/2015 10:57 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:

  So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!

  Typical site setup:

  Radios on tower grounded to tower

  Shielded cable

  Shielded patch panel - grounded

  Regular cat5 jumpers

  Wbmfg SS - grounded

  Regular cat5 jumpers

  Poe device

  What's wrong?

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Mike Hammett]

If what you've done isn't working, then it isn't enough, not that it's too 
much. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: "TJ Trout"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 5:04:32 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong? 


Gino, 


Try not grounding at all? 






On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 1:39 PM, George Skorup < geo...@cbcast.com > wrote: 


I have no doubt it's the SS clamping that's blowing the fuse. If there was no 
fuse, I bet the SS would continue clamping and start smoking if there's enough 
current to supply it. I don't know if it helps save things, but I'm leaning 
towards yes. Just getting all of the radios on the same DC bus seems to have 
helped quite a bit as well. 

On 10/25/2015 12:51 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: 


Speaking of fuses, I know sometimes we get overcurrent trips on CTMs and 
SyncInjectors and have to reset them. Very rare, but always during storms. It 
is possible this is saving radios, I can't say for sure. 


-Original Message- From: George Skorup 
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 12:34 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong? 

One thing we've been doing for several years now is a bonding wire up 
the tower. I do not trust the tower steel/leg joints being low enough 
resistance. Failure rate went way down. DC and fuses doesn't hurt either. 

On 10/25/2015 10:57 AM, Gino Villarini wrote: 


So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning! 

Typical site setup: 

Radios on tower grounded to tower 

Shielded cable 

Shielded patch panel - grounded 

Regular cat5 jumpers 

Wbmfg SS - grounded 

Regular cat5 jumpers 

Poe device 

What's wrong? 

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[TJ Trout]

Gino,

Try not grounding at all?



On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 1:39 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

> I have no doubt it's the SS clamping that's blowing the fuse. If there was
> no fuse, I bet the SS would continue clamping and start smoking if there's
> enough current to supply it. I don't know if it helps save things, but I'm
> leaning towards yes. Just getting all of the radios on the same DC bus
> seems to have helped quite a bit as well.
>
> On 10/25/2015 12:51 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
>> Speaking of fuses, I know sometimes we get overcurrent trips on CTMs and
>> SyncInjectors and have to reset them.  Very rare, but always during storms.
>> It is possible this is saving radios, I can't say for sure.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message- From: George Skorup
>> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 12:34 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?
>>
>> One thing we've been doing for several years now is a bonding wire up
>> the tower. I do not trust the tower steel/leg joints being low enough
>> resistance. Failure rate went way down. DC and fuses doesn't hurt either.
>>
>> On 10/25/2015 10:57 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:
>>
>>> So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!
>>>
>>> Typical site setup:
>>>
>>> Radios on tower grounded to tower
>>>
>>> Shielded cable
>>>
>>> Shielded patch panel - grounded
>>>
>>> Regular cat5 jumpers
>>>
>>> Wbmfg SS - grounded
>>>
>>> Regular cat5 jumpers
>>>
>>> Poe device
>>>
>>> What's wrong?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[George Skorup]

I have no doubt it's the SS clamping that's blowing the fuse. If there 
was no fuse, I bet the SS would continue clamping and start smoking if 
there's enough current to supply it. I don't know if it helps save 
things, but I'm leaning towards yes. Just getting all of the radios on 
the same DC bus seems to have helped quite a bit as well.


On 10/25/2015 12:51 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Speaking of fuses, I know sometimes we get overcurrent trips on CTMs 
and SyncInjectors and have to reset them.  Very rare, but always 
during storms. It is possible this is saving radios, I can't say for 
sure.



-Original Message- From: George Skorup
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 12:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

One thing we've been doing for several years now is a bonding wire up
the tower. I do not trust the tower steel/leg joints being low enough
resistance. Failure rate went way down. DC and fuses doesn't hurt either.

On 10/25/2015 10:57 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:

So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!

Typical site setup:

Radios on tower grounded to tower

Shielded cable

Shielded patch panel - grounded

Regular cat5 jumpers

Wbmfg SS - grounded

Regular cat5 jumpers

Poe device

What's wrong?

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Paul McCall]

What radios, specifically Gino?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Craig House
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 12:51 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

Gino  We used to loose a lot of equipment as well.  Daniel White gave me some 
advice 10 years ago and we started immediately noticing a difference.  The 
suggestions was good shielded cable with a ground strap every 75' minimum.  
Since then we have changed a lot but still lose very little.  The main thing we 
have changed is to keep our ethernet cables as absolutely short as possible.  I 
mount a box on the tower and run AC power up to it.  Install a Surge strip for 
the Netonix switch at the top of the tower and try to keep all cable runs to 
less than 30'.   I use fiber up the tower every chance I get and since the 
Netonix switches have SFP built in it is really not much extra cost for the 
fiber.

I have come to the conclusion that we will always lose some things but it has 
helped so much.  We dont usually  do anything special to "ground" our stuff 
unless the tower has a propensity to attract lightning.  Not sure if this helps 
you but it has worked for us

Craig



From: "Gino Villarini" mailto:ginovi...@gmail.com>>
To: af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 11:31:05 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

Tushar, when you say ground block you mean a surge suppressor?

On Sunday, October 25, 2015, Tushar Patel 
mailto:tpa...@ecpi.com>> wrote:
We used to loose lot of radios too.

We do following now and it seems to help (loosing less).

At top on the tower:
We put all AP on stand off (MTOW-p), then we have grounding block mounted on 
the stand off at same level as AP, then less then 2 feet of cable going from 
grounding block to AP. All shielded cable and grounded to tower.

We have lost few ground block on tower but it seems to save radios.

Some ideas came from orthogone system product and their grounding guide lines.

At the bottom

Shielded cable going to grounding block and then to equipments.

Tushar


> On Oct 25, 2015, at 10:57 AM, Gino Villarini 
> > wrote:
>
> So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!
>
> Typical site setup:
>
> Radios on tower grounded to tower
>
> Shielded cable
>
> Shielded patch panel - grounded
>
> Regular cat5 jumpers
>
> Wbmfg SS - grounded
>
> Regular cat5 jumpers
>
> Poe device
>
> What's wrong?
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Lewis Bergman]

I have a couple of those if you need some more. Stainless steel type.

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015, 12:06 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> We used to get hits on UV treatment plant with plc gear, switches, cameras
> and radios next to it.   I installed an air terminal five feet above tower
> on 1 1/2 inch emt secured to Tower top but isolated by thick rubber...then
> ran 6 gauge ground directly to 3/4 inch 10 ft rodtower has its own
> rodFranklin grounding principle...no issues for over a year and we have
> had allot of lightningconsider floating your mounts from tower as
> well...
>
> Jaime Solorza
> On Oct 25, 2015 10:51 AM, "Craig House"  wrote:
>
>> Gino  We used to loose a lot of equipment as well.  Daniel White gave me
>> some advice 10 years ago and we started immediately noticing a difference.
>> The suggestions was good shielded cable with a ground strap every 75'
>> minimum.  Since then we have changed a lot but still lose very little.  The
>> main thing we have changed is to keep our ethernet cables as absolutely
>> short as possible.  I mount a box on the tower and run AC power up to it.
>> Install a Surge strip for the Netonix switch at the top of the tower and
>> try to keep all cable runs to less than 30'.   I use fiber up the tower
>> every chance I get and since the Netonix switches have SFP built in it is
>> really not much extra cost for the fiber.
>>
>> I have come to the conclusion that we will always lose some things but it
>> has helped so much.  We dont usually  do anything special to "ground" our
>> stuff unless the tower has a propensity to attract lightning.  Not sure if
>> this helps you but it has worked for us
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>> ------
>> *From: *"Gino Villarini" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Sunday, October 25, 2015 11:31:05 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?
>>
>> Tushar, when you say ground block you mean a surge suppressor?
>>
>> On Sunday, October 25, 2015, Tushar Patel  wrote:
>>
>>> We used to loose lot of radios too.
>>>
>>> We do following now and it seems to help (loosing less).
>>>
>>> At top on the tower:
>>> We put all AP on stand off (MTOW-p), then we have grounding block
>>> mounted on the stand off at same level as AP, then less then 2 feet of
>>> cable going from grounding block to AP. All shielded cable and grounded to
>>> tower.
>>>
>>> We have lost few ground block on tower but it seems to save radios.
>>>
>>> Some ideas came from orthogone system product and their grounding guide
>>> lines.
>>>
>>> At the bottom
>>>
>>> Shielded cable going to grounding block and then to equipments.
>>>
>>> Tushar
>>>
>>>
>>> > On Oct 25, 2015, at 10:57 AM, Gino Villarini >> <http://JAVASCRIPT-BLOCKED;>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!
>>> >
>>> > Typical site setup:
>>> >
>>> > Radios on tower grounded to tower
>>> >
>>> > Shielded cable
>>> >
>>> > Shielded patch panel - grounded
>>> >
>>> > Regular cat5 jumpers
>>> >
>>> > Wbmfg SS - grounded
>>> >
>>> > Regular cat5 jumpers
>>> >
>>> > Poe device
>>> >
>>> > What's wrong?
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Ken Hohhof]

Speaking of fuses, I know sometimes we get overcurrent trips on CTMs and 
SyncInjectors and have to reset them.  Very rare, but always during storms. 
It is possible this is saving radios, I can't say for sure.



-Original Message- 
From: George Skorup

Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 12:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

One thing we've been doing for several years now is a bonding wire up
the tower. I do not trust the tower steel/leg joints being low enough
resistance. Failure rate went way down. DC and fuses doesn't hurt either.

On 10/25/2015 10:57 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:

So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!

Typical site setup:

Radios on tower grounded to tower

Shielded cable

Shielded patch panel - grounded

Regular cat5 jumpers

Wbmfg SS - grounded

Regular cat5 jumpers

Poe device

What's wrong?

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Keefe John]

Put surge suppressors within 3' of the radio on the tower as well. 
Motorola recommended that forever and more recently UBNT started 
recommending that.


On 10/25/2015 12:13 PM, Gino Villarini wrote:

Yes

On Sunday, October 25, 2015, Josh Luthman > wrote:


Shielded cable to the SS for sure...

Have you looked at doing fiber/DC up the tower and then distribute
it out that way?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 11:57 AM, Gino Villarini
 wrote:

So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!

Typical site setup:

Radios on tower grounded to tower

Shielded cable

Shielded patch panel - grounded

Regular cat5 jumpers

Wbmfg SS - grounded

Regular cat5 jumpers

Poe device

What's wrong?

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[George Skorup]

One thing we've been doing for several years now is a bonding wire up 
the tower. I do not trust the tower steel/leg joints being low enough 
resistance. Failure rate went way down. DC and fuses doesn't hurt either.


On 10/25/2015 10:57 AM, Gino Villarini wrote:

So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!

Typical site setup:

Radios on tower grounded to tower

Shielded cable

Shielded patch panel - grounded

Regular cat5 jumpers

Wbmfg SS - grounded

Regular cat5 jumpers

Poe device

What's wrong?

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Faisal Imtiaz]

What i meant to ask was, are you blowing the Ethernet ports on the radios ? 
(open one and see ?) 

Are you loosing stuff during known lighting strikes ? or are you loosing stuff 
when there is rain... (no evidence of direct or nearby lighting strike). 

Chris S. has a very nice full article in the netonix forums on the proper way 
to deal with grounding... 

(the thing to watch out for is when grounding at different physical locations, 
is to make sure that there is no 'differential' between the two grounding 
locations... (put an ohm meter and should read 0 or as close to 0 ohms..).. 
e.g. the tower ground and the power ground etc... ) 

This ofcourse has to work in conjunction with proper surge protection. 

Regards 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 1:12:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

> Mostly radios

> On Sunday, October 25, 2015, Faisal Imtiaz < fai...@snappytelecom.net > wrote:

>> Are you loosing Ethernet ports ? or are the radios burning up (scorch marks 
>> ?)

>> Regards.

>> Faisal Imtiaz
>> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> 7266 SW 48 Street
>> Miami, FL 33155
>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232

>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net

>>> From: "Gino Villarini" < ginovi...@gmail.com >
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 11:57:21 AM
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

>>> So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!
>>> Typical site setup:

>>> Radios on tower grounded to tower

>>> Shielded cable

>>> Shielded patch panel - grounded

>>> Regular cat5 jumpers

>>> Wbmfg SS - grounded

>>> Regular cat5 jumpers

>>> Poe device

>>> What's wrong?

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Gino Villarini]

Mostly radios

On Sunday, October 25, 2015, Faisal Imtiaz  wrote:

> Are you loosing Ethernet ports ? or are the radios burning up (scorch
> marks ?)
>
> Regards.
>
> Faisal Imtiaz
> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 7266 SW 48 Street
> Miami, FL 33155
> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>
> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Gino Villarini"  >
> *To: *af@afmug.com 
> *Sent: *Sunday, October 25, 2015 11:57:21 AM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?
>
> So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!
> Typical site setup:
>
> Radios on tower grounded to tower
>
> Shielded cable
>
> Shielded patch panel - grounded
>
> Regular cat5 jumpers
>
> Wbmfg SS - grounded
>
> Regular cat5 jumpers
>
> Poe device
>
> What's wrong?
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Gino Villarini]

Yes

On Sunday, October 25, 2015, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Shielded cable to the SS for sure...
>
> Have you looked at doing fiber/DC up the tower and then distribute it out
> that way?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 11:57 AM, Gino Villarini  > wrote:
>
>> So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!
>>
>> Typical site setup:
>>
>> Radios on tower grounded to tower
>>
>> Shielded cable
>>
>> Shielded patch panel - grounded
>>
>> Regular cat5 jumpers
>>
>> Wbmfg SS - grounded
>>
>> Regular cat5 jumpers
>>
>> Poe device
>>
>> What's wrong?
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Tushar Patel]

Yes.  We use one from Citel, very happy with their products.

Tushar


> On Oct 25, 2015, at 11:31 AM, Gino Villarini  wrote:
> 
> Tushar, when you say ground block you mean a surge suppressor?
> 
>> On Sunday, October 25, 2015, Tushar Patel  wrote:
>> We used to loose lot of radios too.
>> 
>> We do following now and it seems to help (loosing less).
>> 
>> At top on the tower:
>> We put all AP on stand off (MTOW-p), then we have grounding block mounted on 
>> the stand off at same level as AP, then less then 2 feet of cable going from 
>> grounding block to AP. All shielded cable and grounded to tower.
>> 
>> We have lost few ground block on tower but it seems to save radios.
>> 
>> Some ideas came from orthogone system product and their grounding guide 
>> lines.
>> 
>> At the bottom
>> 
>> Shielded cable going to grounding block and then to equipments.
>> 
>> Tushar
>> 
>> 
>> > On Oct 25, 2015, at 10:57 AM, Gino Villarini  wrote:
>> >
>> > So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!
>> >
>> > Typical site setup:
>> >
>> > Radios on tower grounded to tower
>> >
>> > Shielded cable
>> >
>> > Shielded patch panel - grounded
>> >
>> > Regular cat5 jumpers
>> >
>> > Wbmfg SS - grounded
>> >
>> > Regular cat5 jumpers
>> >
>> > Poe device
>> >
>> > What's wrong?
>> >
>> >

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Sean Heskett]

Try shielded jumpers between the patch panel and wbmfg ss.

Make sure everything grounds to the same point so you're not creating a
ground loop.

-Sean


On Sunday, October 25, 2015, Gino Villarini  wrote:

> So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!
>
> Typical site setup:
>
> Radios on tower grounded to tower
>
> Shielded cable
>
> Shielded patch panel - grounded
>
> Regular cat5 jumpers
>
> Wbmfg SS - grounded
>
> Regular cat5 jumpers
>
> Poe device
>
> What's wrong?
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Jaime Solorza]

We used to get hits on UV treatment plant with plc gear, switches, cameras
and radios next to it.   I installed an air terminal five feet above tower
on 1 1/2 inch emt secured to Tower top but isolated by thick rubber...then
ran 6 gauge ground directly to 3/4 inch 10 ft rodtower has its own
rodFranklin grounding principle...no issues for over a year and we have
had allot of lightningconsider floating your mounts from tower as
well...

Jaime Solorza
On Oct 25, 2015 10:51 AM, "Craig House"  wrote:

> Gino  We used to loose a lot of equipment as well.  Daniel White gave me
> some advice 10 years ago and we started immediately noticing a difference.
> The suggestions was good shielded cable with a ground strap every 75'
> minimum.  Since then we have changed a lot but still lose very little.  The
> main thing we have changed is to keep our ethernet cables as absolutely
> short as possible.  I mount a box on the tower and run AC power up to it.
> Install a Surge strip for the Netonix switch at the top of the tower and
> try to keep all cable runs to less than 30'.   I use fiber up the tower
> every chance I get and since the Netonix switches have SFP built in it is
> really not much extra cost for the fiber.
>
> I have come to the conclusion that we will always lose some things but it
> has helped so much.  We dont usually  do anything special to "ground" our
> stuff unless the tower has a propensity to attract lightning.  Not sure if
> this helps you but it has worked for us
>
> Craig
>
>
> --
> *From: *"Gino Villarini" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Sunday, October 25, 2015 11:31:05 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?
>
> Tushar, when you say ground block you mean a surge suppressor?
>
> On Sunday, October 25, 2015, Tushar Patel  wrote:
>
>> We used to loose lot of radios too.
>>
>> We do following now and it seems to help (loosing less).
>>
>> At top on the tower:
>> We put all AP on stand off (MTOW-p), then we have grounding block mounted
>> on the stand off at same level as AP, then less then 2 feet of cable going
>> from grounding block to AP. All shielded cable and grounded to tower.
>>
>> We have lost few ground block on tower but it seems to save radios.
>>
>> Some ideas came from orthogone system product and their grounding guide
>> lines.
>>
>> At the bottom
>>
>> Shielded cable going to grounding block and then to equipments.
>>
>> Tushar
>>
>>
>> > On Oct 25, 2015, at 10:57 AM, Gino Villarini > <http://JAVASCRIPT-BLOCKED;>> wrote:
>> >
>> > So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!
>> >
>> > Typical site setup:
>> >
>> > Radios on tower grounded to tower
>> >
>> > Shielded cable
>> >
>> > Shielded patch panel - grounded
>> >
>> > Regular cat5 jumpers
>> >
>> > Wbmfg SS - grounded
>> >
>> > Regular cat5 jumpers
>> >
>> > Poe device
>> >
>> > What's wrong?
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Josh Luthman]

Shielded cable to the SS for sure...

Have you looked at doing fiber/DC up the tower and then distribute it out
that way?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sun, Oct 25, 2015 at 11:57 AM, Gino Villarini 
wrote:

> So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!
>
> Typical site setup:
>
> Radios on tower grounded to tower
>
> Shielded cable
>
> Shielded patch panel - grounded
>
> Regular cat5 jumpers
>
> Wbmfg SS - grounded
>
> Regular cat5 jumpers
>
> Poe device
>
> What's wrong?
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Faisal Imtiaz]

Are you loosing Ethernet ports ? or are the radios burning up (scorch marks ?) 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net 

> From: "Gino Villarini" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 11:57:21 AM
> Subject: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

> So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!
> Typical site setup:

> Radios on tower grounded to tower

> Shielded cable

> Shielded patch panel - grounded

> Regular cat5 jumpers

> Wbmfg SS - grounded

> Regular cat5 jumpers

> Poe device

> What's wrong?

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Craig House]

Gino We used to loose a lot of equipment as well. Daniel White gave me some 
advice 10 years ago and we started immediately noticing a difference. The 
suggestions was good shielded cable with a ground strap every 75' minimum. 
Since then we have changed a lot but still lose very little. The main thing we 
have changed is to keep our ethernet cables as absolutely short as possible. I 
mount a box on the tower and run AC power up to it. Install a Surge strip for 
the Netonix switch at the top of the tower and try to keep all cable runs to 
less than 30'. I use fiber up the tower every chance I get and since the 
Netonix switches have SFP built in it is really not much extra cost for the 
fiber. 

I have come to the conclusion that we will always lose some things but it has 
helped so much. We dont usually do anything special to "ground" our stuff 
unless the tower has a propensity to attract lightning. Not sure if this helps 
you but it has worked for us 

Craig 


- Original Message -

From: "Gino Villarini"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 11:31:05 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong? 

Tushar, when you say ground block you mean a surge suppressor? 

On Sunday, October 25, 2015, Tushar Patel < tpa...@ecpi.com > wrote: 


We used to loose lot of radios too. 

We do following now and it seems to help (loosing less). 

At top on the tower: 
We put all AP on stand off (MTOW-p), then we have grounding block mounted on 
the stand off at same level as AP, then less then 2 feet of cable going from 
grounding block to AP. All shielded cable and grounded to tower. 

We have lost few ground block on tower but it seems to save radios. 

Some ideas came from orthogone system product and their grounding guide lines. 

At the bottom 

Shielded cable going to grounding block and then to equipments. 

Tushar 


> On Oct 25, 2015, at 10:57 AM, Gino Villarini < ginovi...@gmail.com > wrote: 
> 
> So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning! 
> 
> Typical site setup: 
> 
> Radios on tower grounded to tower 
> 
> Shielded cable 
> 
> Shielded patch panel - grounded 
> 
> Regular cat5 jumpers 
> 
> Wbmfg SS - grounded 
> 
> Regular cat5 jumpers 
> 
> Poe device 
> 
> What's wrong? 
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Gino Villarini]

Tushar, when you say ground block you mean a surge suppressor?

On Sunday, October 25, 2015, Tushar Patel  wrote:

> We used to loose lot of radios too.
>
> We do following now and it seems to help (loosing less).
>
> At top on the tower:
> We put all AP on stand off (MTOW-p), then we have grounding block mounted
> on the stand off at same level as AP, then less then 2 feet of cable going
> from grounding block to AP. All shielded cable and grounded to tower.
>
> We have lost few ground block on tower but it seems to save radios.
>
> Some ideas came from orthogone system product and their grounding guide
> lines.
>
> At the bottom
>
> Shielded cable going to grounding block and then to equipments.
>
> Tushar
>
>
> > On Oct 25, 2015, at 10:57 AM, Gino Villarini  > wrote:
> >
> > So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!
> >
> > Typical site setup:
> >
> > Radios on tower grounded to tower
> >
> > Shielded cable
> >
> > Shielded patch panel - grounded
> >
> > Regular cat5 jumpers
> >
> > Wbmfg SS - grounded
> >
> > Regular cat5 jumpers
> >
> > Poe device
> >
> > What's wrong?
> >
> >
>

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Tushar Patel]

We used to loose lot of radios too.

We do following now and it seems to help (loosing less).

At top on the tower:
We put all AP on stand off (MTOW-p), then we have grounding block mounted on 
the stand off at same level as AP, then less then 2 feet of cable going from 
grounding block to AP. All shielded cable and grounded to tower.

We have lost few ground block on tower but it seems to save radios.

Some ideas came from orthogone system product and their grounding guide lines.

At the bottom 
 
Shielded cable going to grounding block and then to equipments.

Tushar


> On Oct 25, 2015, at 10:57 AM, Gino Villarini  wrote:
> 
> So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning!
> 
> Typical site setup:
> 
> Radios on tower grounded to tower
> 
> Shielded cable
> 
> Shielded patch panel - grounded
> 
> Regular cat5 jumpers
> 
> Wbmfg SS - grounded
> 
> Regular cat5 jumpers
> 
> Poe device 
> 
> What's wrong?
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

[Ken Hohhof]

What kind of antennas?  Have you tried coax surge protector(s) like Polyphasers 
inline between antenna and radio?  I only do this on omnis, but I’ve had 
several omnis blasted to smithereens while the radios survived.

http://www.streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=AL%2DLSXM%2DMA&eq=&Tp=&o1=0

Do you think the tower is getting hit, or is the surge coming in another way, 
like via power?

I don’t personally believe surge suppressors at the bottom of the tower do 
anything to protect the radios at the top, rather they protect the router, 
switch, POE.  If anything they may make things worse for the radio, due to 
ground potential difference.  I had one tower struck and lost 6 radios, the 
only one that survived was temporarily hooked up without a surge suppressor.

If these are high value radios, you could try putting a surge protector at the 
top close to the radio.  You might still have to climb to replace the surge 
protector after a lighting strike though.  The only radios where I’ve done this 
are some Exalt licensed backhauls, because that’s what Exalt said to do.


From: Gino Villarini 
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 10:57 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Site Grounding - what we are doing wrong?

So we are loosing radios left and right due to lightning! 

Typical site setup:

Radios on tower grounded to tower

Shielded cable

Shielded patch panel - grounded

Regular cat5 jumpers

Wbmfg SS - grounded

Regular cat5 jumpers

Poe device 

What's wrong?