[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
At 08:23 AM 4/15/2010, Bob- W7LRD wrote: >Hello > >Should I be so lucky as to connect with Arecib o this weekend, what >is the proper protocol for a QSO? > >73 Bob W7LRD > >Seattle >___ >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb Bob, A good question since they will be using SSB, initially. I do not operate eme on 432+ but I believe that normal calling is done on 2-1/2 minute sequences. I suspect that will not be done with Arecibo (but they should say what their operating protocol will be). Normal eme protocol goes like this: CQ de KP4AO calls for 2.5 minutes KP4AO de KL7UW means KL7UW copied KP4AO call sign (not calling in the blind); calls for 2.5 minutes KL7UW de KP4AO signal report (May be RST or OOO); also means Arecibo copied both KP4AO and KL7UW's call sign; gives report for 2.5 minutes KP4AO de KL7UW roger your report (RO) and/or RST; for 2.5 minutes KL7UW de KP4AO RRR means I copied your report; for 2.5 minutes KP4AO de KL7UW 73 and SK; end of successful contact; for 2.5 minutes total time 15-minutes So with 2:45 hours of operation 11 QSO's could be made; so I do not expect the usual 2.5 minute time sequence. That is usual for CW and digital eme, but I do not know what is likely to ensue with the expected pile up on SSB. But for proper eme both calls must be given and confirmed (unlike HF were only one call is stated and the other station, assumed). 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 == BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 144-600w, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-fall 2010 DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com == ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
FYI, If you leave near some Military locations in the USA You will have 50 watt PEP limitation. The satellite mode of 611 ERP only applies to 435-438mc and not the eme segment of 432 If you are out side of a military zone, then normal power rules apply. §97.313 Transmitter power standards. (f) No station may transmit with a transmitter power exceeding 50 W PEP on the UHF 70 cm band from an area specified in footnote US7 to §2.106 of the FCC Rules, unless expressly authorized by the FCC after mutual agreement, on a case-by-case basis, between the District Director of the applicable field facility and the military area frequency coordinator at the applicable military base. An Earth station or telecommand station, however, may transmit on the 435-438 MHz segment with a maximum of 611 W effective radiated power (1 kW equivalent isotropically radiated power) without the authorization otherwise required. The transmitting antenna elevation angle between the lower half-power (-3 dB relative to the peak or antenna bore sight) point and the horizon must always be greater than 10°. And from US7 (e) In the State of Massachusetts within a 160-kilometer (100 mile) radius around locations at Otis Air Force Base, Massachusetts (latitude 41°45' North, longitude 70°32' West); --- On Thu, 4/15/10, Edward Cole wrote: > From: Edward Cole > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo > To: "Bob- W7LRD" , amsat-bb@amsat.org > Date: Thursday, April 15, 2010, 2:22 PM > At 08:23 AM 4/15/2010, Bob- W7LRD > wrote: > > > >Hello > > > >Should I be so lucky as to connect with Arecib o this > weekend, what > >is the proper protocol for a QSO? > > > >73 Bob W7LRD > > > >Seattle > >___ > >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. > Opinions expressed are those of the author. > >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur > satellite program! > >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > Bob, > > A good question since they will be using SSB, > initially. I do not > operate eme on 432+ but I believe that normal calling is > done on > 2-1/2 minute sequences. I suspect that will not be > done with Arecibo > (but they should say what their operating protocol will > be). > > Normal eme protocol goes like this: > CQ de KP4AO calls for 2.5 minutes > KP4AO de KL7UW means KL7UW copied KP4AO call sign (not > calling in the > blind); calls for 2.5 minutes > KL7UW de KP4AO signal report (May be RST or OOO); also > means Arecibo > copied both KP4AO and KL7UW's call sign; gives report for > 2.5 minutes > KP4AO de KL7UW roger your report (RO) and/or RST; for 2.5 > minutes > KL7UW de KP4AO RRR means I copied your report; for > 2.5 minutes > KP4AO de KL7UW 73 and SK; end of successful contact; > for 2.5 minutes > total time 15-minutes > > So with 2:45 hours of operation 11 QSO's could be made; so > I do not > expect the usual 2.5 minute time sequence. > > That is usual for CW and digital eme, but I do not know > what is > likely to ensue with the expected pile up on SSB. But > for proper eme > both calls must be given and confirmed (unlike HF were only > one call > is stated and the other station, assumed). > > > 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 > == > BP40IQ 500 KHz - > 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com > EME: 144-600w, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-fall 2010 > DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com > == > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. > Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur > satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
- Original Message - From: "Bob- W7LRD" To: Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 6:23 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Arecibo > > Hello > > Should I be so lucky as to connect with Arecib o this weekend, what is the > proper protocol for a QSO? > > 73 Bob W7LRD > > Seattle > Hi Bob W7LRD An effective method of reporting and confirming signal reports helps in completing information exchanges . The following system was currently in use on CW reports when I was on 432 MHz EME early 1977-1980 with an array of 16 x 21 element yagi and 1 kW T = signal detected M= letters or portions of call copied O= both calls and report copied MT = nearly solid copy 5 = solid copy, no need for code By this system as an example a series of OOO OOO OOO plus both calls received at both ends and confirmed with RRR estabishes a contact. I dont know is the above procedure is still in use but if you use it be sure to be understud by the Arecibo very expert old timer EME operators. There is a reason to use the above procedure that is avoid using code characters requiring dots such as the letters I, E, S and H and the numbers 2 to 7 By the way since we hope to receive Arecibo we will see what procedure they actually will use in real life. If available on your receiver use the CW 500 Hz filter. Good luck and 73" de i8CVS Domenico ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
Just copied somebody on CW! N8MH At 05:27 AM 4/16/2010 -0500, you wrote: >Here is a good reference for the Arecibo EME event > > > >http://www.k2txb.com/2010_arecibo_operation.htm > > > > > > > > > > > >nick > >Office 337 593 8700 > >Cell 337 258 2527 > > > >Helping UL become a world Class Engineering and Educational School > > > >___ >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb Mark L. Hammond [N8MH] ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
> Just copied somebody on CW! > > N8MH Nothing heard yet in Oregon ... AI7W ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
I can hear very faint CW from them. I'm surprised as I have just a single yagi, and apparently their amp isn't working. 73 de W4AS On Apr 16, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Mark L. Hammond wrote: > Just copied somebody on CW! > > N8MH ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
Also hearing them. Be certain, if you can, to try different polarity. It does make a difference. Alan WA4SCA -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Sebastian Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 12:46 PM To: Mark L.Hammond Cc: AMSAT BB Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo I can hear very faint CW from them. I'm surprised as I have just a single yagi, and apparently their amp isn't working. 73 de W4AS On Apr 16, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Mark L. Hammond wrote: > Just copied somebody on CW! > > N8MH ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
I've heard nothing the last hour. W8EH On 4/16/2010 1:20 PM, Mark L. Hammond wrote: > Just copied somebody on CW! > > N8MH > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
Alan, Are you saying try a different CP? If you are linear it should not matter what orientation you chose (that is assuming Arecibo is CP). I am not ready with the dish so I quickly tried with my M2 11-element yagi (fixed on horizon) into 0.5 dB GasFet Preamp (Moon was 14-deg elevation). Nothing heard on their published freq. of 432.045. Now I see they were on 432.040 (didn't tune that far down). If they were running 20w instead of 400w that is -23 dB on their signal which will make it hard for small yagis to copy (even CW with narrow filters). Back to work on the dish. My 436CP42 is out of commission due to apparently burning out the pots in my B5400 az-el rotator (long story). 73, Ed - KL7UW At 09:50 AM 4/16/2010, Alan P. Biddle wrote: >Also hearing them. Be certain, if you can, to try different polarity. It >does make a difference. > >Alan >WA4SCA > > > >-Original Message- >From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On >Behalf Of Sebastian >Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 12:46 PM >To: Mark L.Hammond >Cc: AMSAT BB >Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo > >I can hear very faint CW from them. > >I'm surprised as I have just a single yagi, and apparently their amp isn't >working. > >73 de W4AS > >On Apr 16, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Mark L. Hammond wrote: > > > Just copied somebody on CW! > > > > N8MH >___ >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > >___ >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 == BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 144-600w, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-fall 2010 DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com == ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
Sorry, -13 dB. Kind of distracted with getting my dish set up. 73, Ed - KL7UW At 10:38 AM 4/16/2010, Edward Cole wrote: >Alan, > >Are you saying try a different CP? If you are linear it should not >matter what orientation you chose (that is assuming Arecibo is >CP). I am not ready with the dish so I quickly tried with my M2 >11-element yagi (fixed on horizon) into 0.5 dB GasFet Preamp (Moon >was 14-deg elevation). Nothing heard on their published freq. of >432.045. Now I see they were on 432.040 (didn't tune that far >down). If they were running 20w instead of 400w that is -23 dB on >their signal which will make it hard for small yagis to copy (even CW >with narrow filters). > >Back to work on the dish. >My 436CP42 is out of commission due to apparently burning out the >pots in my B5400 az-el rotator (long story). > >73, Ed - KL7UW > >At 09:50 AM 4/16/2010, Alan P. Biddle wrote: > >Also hearing them. Be certain, if you can, to try different polarity. It > >does make a difference. > > > >Alan > >WA4SCA > > > > > > > >-Original Message- > >From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On > >Behalf Of Sebastian > >Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 12:46 PM > >To: Mark L.Hammond > >Cc: AMSAT BB > >Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo > > > >I can hear very faint CW from them. > > > >I'm surprised as I have just a single yagi, and apparently their amp isn't > >working. > > > >73 de W4AS > > > >On Apr 16, 2010, at 1:20 PM, Mark L. Hammond wrote: > > > > > Just copied somebody on CW! > > > > > > N8MH > >___ > >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > > > >___ > >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > >73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 >== >BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com >EME: 144-600w, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-fall 2010 >DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com >== > >___ >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 == BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 144-600w, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-fall 2010 DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com == ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
I'm at work and not QRV, but I had no problem copying them with a single 12 el. yagi leaned again the chair when they did the test a couple of weeks ago, and most everyone else gave them good reports. At the time, they were running 50w, a barefoot Kenwood TS-2000. They must have changed rigs if now they only have 20w. And something else must be wrong, because even folks with big antennas are having trouble copying them (more so than the 50w vs. 20w would suggest). There's a live feed at http://www.ustream.tv/channel/kp4ao-eme Good luck and 73, Bill NZ5N > From: Sebastian > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo > To: "Mark L.Hammond" > Cc: AMSAT BB > Message-ID: <4141f900-265d-4987-b3be-59b3834be...@bellsouth.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=us-ascii > > I can hear very faint CW from them. > > I'm surprised as I have just a single yagi, and apparently > their amp isn't working. > > 73 de W4AS ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
In march they set up the radios in the antenna structure at the feed; now probably have some feedline loss since relocating to a more amenable operating room. I cannot watch the TV stream since something has turned off my active-X on this computer. 73, Ed - KL7UW At 11:27 AM 4/16/2010, Bill Dzurilla wrote: >I'm at work and not QRV, but I had no problem copying them with a >single 12 el. yagi leaned again the chair when they did the test a >couple of weeks ago, and most everyone else gave them good >reports. At the time, they were running 50w, a barefoot Kenwood >TS-2000. They must have changed rigs if now they only have >20w. And something else must be wrong, because even folks with big >antennas are having trouble copying them (more so than the 50w vs. >20w would suggest). > >There's a live feed at http://www.ustream.tv/channel/kp4ao-eme > >Good luck and 73, >Bill NZ5N > > > From: Sebastian > > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo > > To: "Mark L.Hammond" > > Cc: AMSAT BB > > Message-ID: <4141f900-265d-4987-b3be-59b3834be...@bellsouth.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; > > charset=us-ascii > > > > I can hear very faint CW from them. > > > > I'm surprised as I have just a single yagi, and apparently > > their amp isn't working. > > > > 73 de W4AS > > > > > >___ >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 == BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 144-600w, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-fall 2010 DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com == ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
On a 24elem linear yagi+preamp signal here is very very weak could be one or two dits from them. Just hope they can get their linear back i will try JT65B "-" Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe DSTAR urcall VE2DWE WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
On 16 Apr 2010 at 19:43, Bob- W7LRD wrote: Date sent: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 19:43:00 + (UTC) From: Bob- W7LRD Subject:[amsat-bb] Arecibo To: amsat-bb@amsat.org > > Nill copy till the last 10 min barely out of the noise. The west coast > seemed not to hear very well?? 910/40 el. cp yagi. Hope they get the amp > running. The video streaming is neat. Better luck tomorrow. > 73 Bob W7LRD > ___ Hi Bob Someone in Texas was able to copy them with an 11 element yagi but reception pattern seems to not be equal tend to favor less northern latitude compare to those at the equator as per i saw on the video stream. My first JT65B experience intrigue me a bit i got some call signs in my monitoring screen F5BUU KU7Z K3AX IQ2CJ I'm not able to TX yet but it will be my next step "-" Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe DSTAR urcall VE2DWE WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
Luc and All, I was able to copy the CW signal "fair" at times (when my local pulse noise was down) today around 1840 utc with just a Cushcraft 432-20T (my 1970's antenna) using a SSB 7000 and a TS-2000x with both preamps on. I was talking to a local EME operator on 220mhz (WD4JHD) and would tell him when I heard the signal. He would confirm my reception each time. I will say it was not good enough to work a contact. I was just amazed that I could hear them at all with my "flea" antenna. It's only 4 ft long and was running axial feed to both driven elements. I was elevated between 67 to 70 plus degrees at the time. I never could hear the other station, but did hear KP4AO give someone a 559 report. I hope they run digital mode Sunday to see if I can decode it. 73 all, Rick WA4NVM > > On a 24elem linear yagi+preamp signal here is very very weak could be one > or two dits from them. Just hope they can get their linear back i > will try JT65B > > > "-" > > > Luc Leblanc VE2DWE > Skype VE2DWE > www.qsl.net/ve2dwe > DSTAR urcall VE2DWE > WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE > > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
- Original Message - From: "Rick - WA4NVM" To: "Luc Leblanc" ; Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 3:37 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo > > Luc and All, > > I was able to copy the CW signal "fair" at times (when my local pulse > noise was down) today around 1840 utc with just a Cushcraft 432-20T > > 73 all, > Rick WA4NVM > Hi Rick, WA4NVM As far I remember the 432-20T should be a 10 + 10 elements crossed yagi. Do you remember if your antenna is connected for RHCP or LHCP ? Since Arecibo transmit a RHCP toward the moon and the moon reflects back a LHCP wave if you was able to copy the CW signal then your antenna should be LHCP. Please let us know if possible. Tanks 73" de i8CVS Domenico ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
>> Luc and All, >> >> I was able to copy the CW signal "fair" at times (when my local pulse >> noise was down) today around 1840 utc with just a Cushcraft 432-20T >> >> 73 all, >> Rick WA4NVM >> > Hi Rick, WA4NVM > > As far I remember the 432-20T should be a 10 + 10 elements crossed yagi. > Do you remember if your antenna is connected for RHCP or LHCP ? > > Since Arecibo transmit a RHCP toward the moon and the moon reflects > back a LHCP wave if you was able to copy the CW signal then your antenna > should be LHCP. > > Please let us know if possible. > > Tanks > > 73" de > > i8CVS Domenico You are correct about the antenna. It is a 10 + 10 element crossed yagi. At the time I put it back up a few years ago, I didn't know what the FM birds were using, RH or LH. So, I took the delay line off and hooked up both driven elements to the phasing harness "Y" in what Cushcraft called "axial radiation". I would think this would give me the "best and worst" of everything. It would make my uplink power and downlink receive "half" of what they could be if they were phased correctly. Since I don't have any way to switch polarity, I use it this way on all the birds. I'm still very surprised I heard anything on this setup. 73, Rick WA4NVM ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
Hi Nick, K5QXJ Is your KLM 436 a linearly polarized antenna or a circularly polarized antenna ? If it is circularly polarized switch polarization to LHCP because Arecibo transmit RHCP toward the moon but the moon reflect back isotropically a signal in LHCP If your KLM 436 is linearly polarized no matter if it is horizontal or vertical because Arecibo comes to you circularly LHCP About the sun-noise supposing that the gain of your antenna is 16 dBi corresponding to the gain of a dish with diameter of 6.5 feet and that the sun activity yesterdat 16 April was 75 sfu at 2800 MHz (10.7 cm) using the program NOISE.EXE with 75 kelvin for your 1 dB of NF for preamplifier and 70 kelvin for the antenna temperature with the elevation of the sun 75° it outcomes that the sun-noise you should receive as a (S+N)/N ratio is 2.8 dB maximum So you receive the right sun-noise figure from your system no matter if the antenna is linearly or circularly polarized because the sun-noise is a uncoherent signal no polarized. In a separate email I have sent to you the software NOISE.EXE a very simple but powerful program working in DOS 73" de i8CVS Domenico - Original Message - From: "Nick Pugh K5QXJ" To: Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 1:09 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Arecibo > Hi All > > I have a KLM 436 with < 1 db preamp I did not here them yesterday. I have > about 2 db of sun noise. The question I have for those who copied Arecibo > yesterday how much sun noise do you have in a 2.4 KHz band with filter? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > nick > > Office 337 593 8700 > > Cell 337 258 2527 > > > > Helping UL become a world Class Engineering and Educational School > > > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
- Original Message - From: "Rick - WA4NVM" To: "i8cvs" ; "Luc Leblanc" ; "AMSAT-BB" Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo > > You are correct about the antenna. It is a 10 + 10 element crossed yagi. > At the time I put it back up a few years ago, I didn't know what the FM > birds were using, RH or LH. So, I took the delay line off and hooked up > both driven elements to the phasing harness "Y" in what Cushcraft called > "axial radiation". > > I would think this would give me the "best and worst" of everything. It > would make my uplink power and downlink receive "half" of what they could > be if they were phased correctly. Since I don't have any way to switch > polarity, I use it this way on all the birds. I'm still very surprised I > heard anything on this setup. > > 73, > > Rick WA4NVM > Hi Rick, WA4NVM I know very well the Cushcraft 432-20T and I have one here never used. It is a very short antenna and it's gain is much lower than the minimum of 15 dBi required to receive Arecibo. By the way if you have removed the delay line from the phasing arness and if you feed both dipoles with the Y arness than you get an "axial radiation" wich is a linear radiation with a maximum field at 45° and 135° if the antenna elements are crossed like the signe + Since Arecibo comes to you circularly polarized LHCP you should be in condition to receive Arecibo not "fair at time" but much better than actually provided the gain of the 432-20T would be a little bit greater. Tank you very much for your information. 73" de i8CVS Domenico ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
Nothing heard on SSB but as soon as they switched to CW the signal came in very loud! David KG4ZLB EL96 On 4/17/2010 15:28, Edward Cole wrote: At 10:31 AM 4/17/2010, Edward Cole wrote: Briefly heard voice on 432.044.500 about 1920 when Moon was 24.5 deg.elevation; maybe the Moon traversed a sidelobe of my yagi? I checked with KL7XJ who is also trying to hear Arecibo to see if he might have been transmitting - he was not. No other 432 SSB stations within 70-miles so that rules out QRM. 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 == BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 144-600w, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-fall 2010 DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com == ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb -- David KG4ZLB www.kg4zlb.com ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
Hi Bob, W7LRD What polarization have you used on your 40 el cp ? RHCP or LHCP ? I am sure that with LHCP it was a very consistant signal and with RHCP nothing was heard. Please confirm ! Tanks 73" de i8CVS Domenico - Original Message - From: "Bob- W7LRD" To: Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 10:57 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Arecibo > > > Very consistant signal 910/40el cp. I wish they would use dxpedition qso methods for more qso/hr. This is a very finite opportunity. Had fun anyway, better luck tomorrow. > > 73 Bob W7LRD > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
This was my experience with a KLM 435-40CX and no preamp into a FT-736R. I had to energize the relay on the antenna in order to hear them. I assume it's RHCP normally, and LHCP when the relay is energized. I actually had better copy during the SSB portion than the CW, but am not sure why that was. --Mike WQ5C On 4/17/2010 4:31 PM, i8cvs wrote: > Hi Bob, W7LRD > > What polarization have you used on your 40 el cp ? RHCP or LHCP ? I am sure > that with LHCP it was a very consistant signal and with RHCP nothing was > heard. > > Please confirm ! > > Tanks > > 73" de > > i8CVS Domenico > > - Original Message - > From: "Bob- W7LRD" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 10:57 PM > Subject: [amsat-bb] Arecibo > > > >> >> Very consistant signal 910/40el cp. I wish they would use dxpedition qso >> > methods for more qso/hr. This is a very finite opportunity. Had fun anyway, > better luck tomorrow. > >> 73 Bob W7LRD >> ___ >> Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> >> > > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
Hi Mike-Yes the default is RHCP. I found LHCP was necessary to hear Arecibo, when switching to RHCP the signal disappeared. 73 Bob W7LRD - Original Message - From: "Michael Pfeuffer" To: "i8cvs" , amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 2:52:37 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo This was my experience with a KLM 435-40CX and no preamp into a FT-736R. I had to energize the relay on the antenna in order to hear them. I assume it's RHCP normally, and LHCP when the relay is energized. I actually had better copy during the SSB portion than the CW, but am not sure why that was. --Mike WQ5C On 4/17/2010 4:31 PM, i8cvs wrote: > Hi Bob, W7LRD > > What polarization have you used on your 40 el cp ? RHCP or LHCP ? I am sure > that with LHCP it was a very consistant signal and with RHCP nothing was > heard. > > Please confirm ! > > Tanks > > 73" de > > i8CVS Domenico > > - Original Message - > From: "Bob- W7LRD" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 10:57 PM > Subject: [amsat-bb] Arecibo > > > >> >> Very consistant signal 910/40el cp. I wish they would use dxpedition qso >> > methods for more qso/hr. This is a very finite opportunity. Had fun anyway, > better luck tomorrow. > >> 73 Bob W7LRD >> ___ >> Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> >> > > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
So, I had pretty marginal copy in both SSB and CW, neither of which were quite good enough to hold a QSO. The odd thing is that CW did NOT improve things, even with the narrow filter on my FT-736R. The antenna is a 2x16 CP thing I picked up at a swap meet (so I don't know the brand). My copy was better with the CP relay UN-energized, so either it's wired backwards, or something is broken. On the man-made satellites, I have used both polarization settings, so I know they both work. Puzzle. There's also a no-name preamp up there, after a bit of coax to get around the rotor. Below the preamp is mostly hardline. Turning on the preamp results in a small but noticeable rise in the base noise floor, so I believe it is working. And I Just got down from the roof, after checking the aiming using the sun. No problem there. I even played with my W9GR DSP box, trying to pull out the signal. Didn't help much. Don't get me wrong - it was a thrill just to hear the moon. But what's wrong with my setup? The only other thing I can think of was that the moon was north-east of me at the time, and that means aiming through a bit of oak tree. Is that the problem? Greg KO6TH > Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 16:52:37 -0500 > From: pfeuff...@gmail.com > To: domenico.i8...@tin.it; amsat-bb@amsat.org > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo > > This was my experience with a KLM 435-40CX and no preamp into a > FT-736R. I had to energize the relay on the antenna in order to hear > them. I assume it's RHCP normally, and LHCP when the relay is energized. > > I actually had better copy during the SSB portion than the CW, but am > not sure why that was. > > --Mike WQ5C > > > On 4/17/2010 4:31 PM, i8cvs wrote: > > Hi Bob, W7LRD > > > > What polarization have you used on your 40 el cp ? RHCP or LHCP ? I am sure > > that with LHCP it was a very consistant signal and with RHCP nothing was > > heard. > > > > Please confirm ! > > > > Tanks > > > > 73" de > > > > i8CVS Domenico > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Bob- W7LRD" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 10:57 PM > > Subject: [amsat-bb] Arecibo > > > > > > > >> > >> Very consistant signal 910/40el cp. I wish they would use dxpedition qso > >> > > methods for more qso/hr. This is a very finite opportunity. Had fun anyway, > > better luck tomorrow. > > > >> 73 Bob W7LRD > >> ___ > >> Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > >> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > >> > >> > > > > > > ___ > > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
I heard it last night, around 2045UTC on 432.0564MHz with my 11-element ex-PMR yagi and Kenwood TH-F7E at my QTH in IO75vs. The CW was a bit too fast for me to copy, and it was all a bit noisy (moon pretty close to the horizon) but if I'd stuck in at the Koch method (I should spend more time on http://lcwo.net ) then I could easily have copied it. I'd say I had it about 519. Gordon MM0YEQ ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo
Hi Greg, If you were pointing NE, that would be a problem. The moon was never north of the 25 degree Lat. line. I would have always been on a South bearing from your QTH. I hope this helps, Rick WA4NVM > > So, I had pretty marginal copy in both SSB and CW, neither of which were > quite good enough to hold a QSO. The odd thing is that CW did NOT improve > things, even with the narrow filter on my FT-736R. > > The antenna is a 2x16 CP thing I picked up at a swap meet (so I don't know > the brand). My copy was better with the CP relay UN-energized, so either > it's wired backwards, or something is broken. On the man-made satellites, > I have used both polarization settings, so I know they both work. Puzzle. > > There's also a no-name preamp up there, after a bit of coax to get around > the rotor. Below the preamp is mostly hardline. Turning on the preamp > results in a small but noticeable rise in the base noise floor, so I > believe it is working. And I Just got down from the roof, after checking > the aiming using the sun. No problem there. I even played with my W9GR > DSP box, trying to pull out the signal. Didn't help much. > > Don't get me wrong - it was a thrill just to hear the moon. But what's > wrong with my setup? The only other thing I can think of was that the > moon was north-east of me at the time, and that means aiming through a bit > of oak tree. Is that the problem? > > Greg KO6TH > > >> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 16:52:37 -0500 >> From: pfeuff...@gmail.com >> To: domenico.i8...@tin.it; amsat-bb@amsat.org >> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo >> >> This was my experience with a KLM 435-40CX and no preamp into a >> FT-736R. I had to energize the relay on the antenna in order to hear >> them. I assume it's RHCP normally, and LHCP when the relay is energized. >> >> I actually had better copy during the SSB portion than the CW, but am >> not sure why that was. >> >> --Mike WQ5C >> >> >> On 4/17/2010 4:31 PM, i8cvs wrote: >> > Hi Bob, W7LRD >> > >> > What polarization have you used on your 40 el cp ? RHCP or LHCP ? I am >> > sure >> > that with LHCP it was a very consistant signal and with RHCP nothing >> > was >> > heard. >> > >> > Please confirm ! >> > >> > Tanks >> > >> > 73" de >> > >> > i8CVS Domenico >> > >> > - Original Message - >> > From: "Bob- W7LRD" >> > To: >> > Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 10:57 PM >> > Subject: [amsat-bb] Arecibo >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> Very consistant signal 910/40el cp. I wish they would use dxpedition >> >> qso >> >> >> > methods for more qso/hr. This is a very finite opportunity. Had fun >> > anyway, >> > better luck tomorrow. >> > >> >> 73 Bob W7LRD >> >> ___ >> >> Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the >> >> author. >> >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite >> >> program! >> >> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > ___ >> > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the >> > author. >> > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite >> > program! >> > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> > >> >> ___ >> Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite >> program! >> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > _ > Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your > inbox. > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo heard
I went home for a "lunch break" and was able to copy them on CW (but not SSB) with the following: M2 440-18 (an 11' vertical/linear antenna that claims 14.5 dBd) ARR MSP432VDG-160 preamp (claims 0.55 dB NF) TS-2000X radio, CW mode, filter width betwen 600Hz and 200Hz It wasn't arm-chair copy, but after nudging the array around a bit, I could make out characters and their call. Didn't try to listen to anybody else (assuming they would quite a bit lower). The moon was around 67 deg elevation, right in the small "hole" of the forest canopy growing at my home :) Anyhow, it was fun, and given their low output, will be fun to listen tomorrow with a repaired amp! 73, Mark N8MH On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Bill Dzurilla wrote: > I'm at work and not QRV, but I had no problem copying them with a single 12 > el. yagi leaned again the chair when they did the test a couple of weeks ago, > and most everyone else gave them good reports. At the time, they were > running 50w, a barefoot Kenwood TS-2000. They must have changed rigs if now > they only have 20w. And something else must be wrong, because even folks > with big antennas are having trouble copying them (more so than the 50w vs. > 20w would suggest). > > There's a live feed at http://www.ustream.tv/channel/kp4ao-eme > > Good luck and 73, > Bill NZ5N > >> From: Sebastian >> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo >> To: "Mark L.Hammond" >> Cc: AMSAT BB >> Message-ID: <4141f900-265d-4987-b3be-59b3834be...@bellsouth.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; >> charset=us-ascii >> >> I can hear very faint CW from them. >> >> I'm surprised as I have just a single yagi, and apparently >> their amp isn't working. >> >> 73 de W4AS > > > > > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > -- Mark L. Hammond [N8MH] ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo EME
Congrats Mateusz! I tried similar here, but with no luck with them hearing me. Nice work! 73, Mark At 11:17 PM 4/18/2010 +0200, Mateusz wrote: >I know that it is not EME gropup but: > >204600 1 -8 3.1 19 3 # SQ7DQX KP4AO FK68 OOO 1 10 > >50W TS 2000 and 30m coax, 21 el. DK7ZB pointed to horizon with moon el. 13.6 >deg > >:-) > > >file: http://www.enduro.idl.pl/KP4AO_100418_204600.wav > >21 DK7ZB is a part of my sat system :) > >___ >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb Mark L. Hammond [N8MH] ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo grumble
Hello Bob, W7LRD You writes that you are receiving Arecibo with signals peaking 569 As far I know a report of signal strengt of 6 means that the S meter is moving from S1 with no signal and swing to S6 under signal. My question is the following: Is your S meter swinging from S1 to S6 under CW or SSB signals or it is steady over S6 only because of the noise of your preamplifier ? Please let us know Tanks 73" de i8CVS Domenico - Original Message - From: "Bob- W7LRD" To: Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:44 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Arecibo grumble > > Hello > > Their signal peaked at 569 using a 910 with 50feet of LMR400 to a 40 el CP > yagi set for LHCP. > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo grumble
Watching the web cam, I was constantly cringing. Yes they needed better Op's I was copying calls off the echoy web audio and they had no clue. Or how they never waited long enough after cqing to get an answer. half the time they would call cq tubne a bit and in like 2 or 3 seconds theyd be cqing already! the answering stations signal hasn't even made it back yet? this isn't 20 meters, The needed to wait at LEAST 5 seconds if not ten before cqing again. I bet 90% of the time they were cqing on top of an answering station. I wonder how many stations that they did work figured this out by calling them while they are cqing? The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 4/18/2010 3:44 PM, Bob- W7LRD wrote: > > > Hello > > I have never uttered a controversial word on this bb. This Arecibo event > presented us with a fantastic opportunity. I truly applaud those who set > this event up and ran it. However-the object is to make contacts, and as > many as possible in the allotted time. The CW procedures were laborious, > 73's, multiple calls, excessive id'ing. They needed a top notch cw op. They > used SSB, CW, then JT-65. I was waiting for them to try FM. Again, I am > grateful for the chance to try to participate in this event. I learned a > great deal in preparing and participating in the process. Their signal > peaked at 569 using a 910 with 50feet of LMR400 to a 40 el CP yagi set for > LHCP. I am sure the JT-65 mode gave flea powered stations an opportunity. > As I hit this send button they have 40 minutes left. They might work a few > more. grumble!! > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo grumble
So they're basically not allowing for the 2+ seconds for the signal to *get* to the receiving station plus the 2+ seconds for the reply to get back? Laws of physics and all that. :p On Apr 18, 2010, at 4:33 PM, Idle-Tyme wrote: > Or how they never waited long enough after cqing to get an answer. > half > the time they would call cq tubne a bit and in like 2 or 3 seconds > theyd be cqing already! ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo, Sun & Moon
At 01:26 PM 4/15/2010 -0800, Edward Cole wrote: >At 01:49 PM 4/15/2010, you wrote: > >>I noticed the moon is fairly close to the sun in the sky. There may be >>some solar noise, but I don't know how much noise the sun generates at 432. >> >>KB7ADL >> >>___ >>Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >>Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >>Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > >Vince, > >The Sun is approx. 20-degrees away from the Moon (today), so it may cause >some degradation of receiver sensitivity, depending on how narrow your >antenna beam is. I will be using a 16-foot dish with 9.9 degree >HPBW. Hopefully, the sun will be down -15 dB or more when I point at the >Moon. But if you are using a 15-dBi yagi yoru beamwidth is about >33-degrees and the sun will be seen by your system. > >I don't have time to research what to expect in degradation, busy working >on getting the antenna ready ;-) > > >73, Ed - KL7UW, Your beamwidth will be a lot more narrower than mine. If I get a chance to give it a listen I'll be using an auto-tracked eight element RHCP yagi with a Landwehr preamp. There was an OM in the area that was an avid EME'er at one time. He has since passed away, I asked him once when is the best time to listen for stations doing EME, Full moon, New Moon, Quarter moon, and he said new moon was worst because of solar noise and also when the sun is within your beamwidth around new moon. KB7ADL ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo = 350W Sunday
Station operator just flashed us a "350W" sign (11:55 AM PDT). Clint ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on Handy
SO, did you work them on the FT817??? 73s John AA5JG --- On Sun, 4/18/10, David Barber wrote: > From: David Barber > Subject: [amsat-bb] Arecibo on Handy > To: "'Moon-Net'" , amsat-bb@amsat.org > Date: Sunday, April 18, 2010, 2:37 PM > OK, I know nobody is going to believe > this buton my life... > > I have been outside with an FT-817 connected via a very > short piece of coax > to a Diamond A430S10R (small 10 element beam modified for > handheld use) and > headphones and KP4AO was just audible on SSB. > > Signals were inconsistent but solid enough to copy their > callsign and CQ > calls around 19.00UTC and the odd information exchange > thereafter. > > Now they've switched to CW copy is a good 80%. > > No signal strength showing on S-Meter of course but who > cares. > > I would never have believed it had I not heard it with my > own ears. > > Note: NO preamp was used. > > David > G8OQW > JO01FR > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. > Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur > satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on Handy
have you peaked them in polarity also? The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 4/18/2010 2:37 PM, David Barber wrote: > OK, I know nobody is going to believe this buton my life... > > I have been outside with an FT-817 connected via a very short piece of coax > to a Diamond A430S10R (small 10 element beam modified for handheld use) and > headphones and KP4AO was just audible on SSB. > > Signals were inconsistent but solid enough to copy their callsign and CQ > calls around 19.00UTC and the odd information exchange thereafter. > > Now they've switched to CW copy is a good 80%. > > No signal strength showing on S-Meter of course but who cares. > > I would never have believed it had I not heard it with my own ears. > > Note: NO preamp was used. > > David > G8OQW > JO01FR > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on Handy
Or prove their antenna hears as well as it transmits! 73s John AA5JG --- On Sun, 4/18/10, David Barber wrote: > From: David Barber > Subject: RE: [amsat-bb] Arecibo on Handy > To: "'John Geiger'" , amsat-bb@amsat.org > Date: Sunday, April 18, 2010, 3:05 PM > Now that really would be silly > wouldn't it! > > Regards > > David > G8OQW > > > > -Original Message- > From: John Geiger [mailto:aa...@yahoo.com] > Sent: 18 April 2010 21:02 > To: david.bar...@dbelectronics.co.uk; > amsat-bb@amsat.org > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Arecibo on Handy > > SO, did you work them on the FT817??? > > 73s John AA5JG > > --- On Sun, 4/18/10, David Barber > wrote: > > > From: David Barber > > Subject: [amsat-bb] Arecibo on Handy > > To: "'Moon-Net'" , > amsat-bb@amsat.org > > Date: Sunday, April 18, 2010, 2:37 PM > > OK, I know nobody is going to believe > > this buton my life... > > > > I have been outside with an FT-817 connected via a > very > > short piece of coax > > to a Diamond A430S10R (small 10 element beam modified > for > > handheld use) and > > headphones and KP4AO was just audible on SSB. > > > > Signals were inconsistent but solid enough to copy > their > > callsign and CQ > > calls around 19.00UTC and the odd information > exchange > > thereafter. > > > > Now they've switched to CW copy is a good 80%. > > > > No signal strength showing on S-Meter of course but > who > > cares. > > > > I would never have believed it had I not heard it with > my > > own ears. > > > > Note: NO preamp was used. > > > > David > > G8OQW > > JO01FR > > > > ___ > > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. > > Opinions expressed are those of the author. > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the > amateur > > satellite program! > > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > > > > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on Handy
Now that really would be silly wouldn't it! Regards David G8OQW -Original Message- From: John Geiger [mailto:aa...@yahoo.com] Sent: 18 April 2010 21:02 To: david.bar...@dbelectronics.co.uk; amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Arecibo on Handy SO, did you work them on the FT817??? 73s John AA5JG --- On Sun, 4/18/10, David Barber wrote: > From: David Barber > Subject: [amsat-bb] Arecibo on Handy > To: "'Moon-Net'" , amsat-bb@amsat.org > Date: Sunday, April 18, 2010, 2:37 PM > OK, I know nobody is going to believe > this buton my life... > > I have been outside with an FT-817 connected via a very > short piece of coax > to a Diamond A430S10R (small 10 element beam modified for > handheld use) and > headphones and KP4AO was just audible on SSB. > > Signals were inconsistent but solid enough to copy their > callsign and CQ > calls around 19.00UTC and the odd information exchange > thereafter. > > Now they've switched to CW copy is a good 80%. > > No signal strength showing on S-Meter of course but who > cares. > > I would never have believed it had I not heard it with my > own ears. > > Note: NO preamp was used. > > David > G8OQW > JO01FR > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. > Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur > satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on Handy
I found there to be little or no difference when rotating the polarity. I've also been asked what frequency I was listening on. The FT817 was in USB mode and the displayed frequency was 432.04340MHz David G8OQW -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Idle-Tyme Sent: 18 April 2010 21:05 To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on Handy have you peaked them in polarity also? The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 4/18/2010 2:37 PM, David Barber wrote: > OK, I know nobody is going to believe this buton my life... > > I have been outside with an FT-817 connected via a very short piece of coax > to a Diamond A430S10R (small 10 element beam modified for handheld use) and > headphones and KP4AO was just audible on SSB. > > Signals were inconsistent but solid enough to copy their callsign and CQ > calls around 19.00UTC and the odd information exchange thereafter. > > Now they've switched to CW copy is a good 80%. > > No signal strength showing on S-Meter of course but who cares. > > I would never have believed it had I not heard it with my own ears. > > Note: NO preamp was used. > > David > G8OQW > JO01FR > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on Handy
I got it clearly - also with fix polarization (RHCP) ;-) at 432.0446 MHz on my FT736-R. 73, Mike DK3WN -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] Im Auftrag von David Barber Gesendet: Sonntag, 18. April 2010 22:24 An: 'Idle-Tyme'; amsat-bb@amsat.org Betreff: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on Handy I found there to be little or no difference when rotating the polarity. I've also been asked what frequency I was listening on. The FT817 was in USB mode and the displayed frequency was 432.04340MHz David G8OQW -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Idle-Tyme Sent: 18 April 2010 21:05 To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on Handy have you peaked them in polarity also? The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 4/18/2010 2:37 PM, David Barber wrote: > OK, I know nobody is going to believe this buton my life... > > I have been outside with an FT-817 connected via a very short piece of coax > to a Diamond A430S10R (small 10 element beam modified for handheld use) and > headphones and KP4AO was just audible on SSB. > > Signals were inconsistent but solid enough to copy their callsign and CQ > calls around 19.00UTC and the odd information exchange thereafter. > > Now they've switched to CW copy is a good 80%. > > No signal strength showing on S-Meter of course but who cares. > > I would never have believed it had I not heard it with my own ears. > > Note: NO preamp was used. > > David > G8OQW > JO01FR > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on Handy
yeah i forgot that they were circular so it shouldn't matter much, may as well go horizintal tho to curt man made noise some. The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 4/18/2010 3:24 PM, David Barber wrote: > I found there to be little or no difference when rotating the polarity. > > I've also been asked what frequency I was listening on. The FT817 was in > USB mode and the displayed frequency was 432.04340MHz > > David > G8OQW > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On > Behalf Of Idle-Tyme > Sent: 18 April 2010 21:05 > To: amsat-bb@amsat.org > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on Handy > > have you peaked them in polarity also? > > > The Original Rolling Ball Clock > Idle Tyme > Idle-Tyme.com > http://www.idle-tyme.com > > On 4/18/2010 2:37 PM, David Barber wrote: > >> OK, I know nobody is going to believe this buton my life... >> >> I have been outside with an FT-817 connected via a very short piece of >> > coax > >> to a Diamond A430S10R (small 10 element beam modified for handheld use) >> > and > >> headphones and KP4AO was just audible on SSB. >> >> Signals were inconsistent but solid enough to copy their callsign and CQ >> calls around 19.00UTC and the odd information exchange thereafter. >> >> Now they've switched to CW copy is a good 80%. >> >> No signal strength showing on S-Meter of course but who cares. >> >> I would never have believed it had I not heard it with my own ears. >> >> Note: NO preamp was used. >> >> David >> G8OQW >> JO01FR >> >> ___ >> Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> >> >> >> > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on Handy
Heard them in CW with my TH-F7E and a CJU antenna. No difference between horizontal and vertical polarity. Pedro EB4DKA http://eb4dka.laserenadigital.com - Original Message - From: "David Barber" To: "'Idle-Tyme'" ; Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:24 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on Handy > > I found there to be little or no difference when rotating the polarity. > > I've also been asked what frequency I was listening on. The FT817 was in > USB mode and the displayed frequency was 432.04340MHz > > David > G8OQW > > > > > > -Original Message- > From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On > Behalf Of Idle-Tyme > Sent: 18 April 2010 21:05 > To: amsat-bb@amsat.org > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on Handy > > have you peaked them in polarity also? > > > The Original Rolling Ball Clock > Idle Tyme > Idle-Tyme.com > http://www.idle-tyme.com > > On 4/18/2010 2:37 PM, David Barber wrote: >> OK, I know nobody is going to believe this buton my life... >> >> I have been outside with an FT-817 connected via a very short piece of > coax >> to a Diamond A430S10R (small 10 element beam modified for handheld use) > and >> headphones and KP4AO was just audible on SSB. >> >> Signals were inconsistent but solid enough to copy their callsign and CQ >> calls around 19.00UTC and the odd information exchange thereafter. >> >> Now they've switched to CW copy is a good 80%. >> >> No signal strength showing on S-Meter of course but who cares. >> >> I would never have believed it had I not heard it with my own ears. >> >> Note: NO preamp was used. >> >> David >> G8OQW >> JO01FR >> >> ___ >> Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite >> program! >> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> >> >> > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on Handy
David and all, I copied them here at 432.0446 in CW using a Yaesu FT-817ND and Elk dual-band yagi with 6 feet of RG8X between the antenna and the radio, no preamp. I copied them in CW between 1958 and 2000 UTC here, then switched to my FT-857D (which will transmit 20 watts on 70cm instead of the 817's 5) just as they were switching to JT65B. When I heard the digital mode, I quickly set up my Acer netbook and SignaLink USB, and copied multiple contacts in the digital mode quite easily - again with just the Elk and no preamp. Congratulations to the stations I copied KP4AO working in JT65B this afternoon - UA4FRL, AF6O, W1ICW, SQ7DQX, SV2DCD, UR4UAR and SV2RM. I tried to reach them in JT65B, and threw all 20 watts at them, too ... hihi. Nothing ventured, nothing gained! What a thrill to hear and copy them on the QRP radio in CW and in the digital weak-signal mode. My congratulations and thanks to Joe Taylor, K1JT, and the KP4AO club for organizing and staging the event. 73 to all, Tim - N3TL -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of David Barber Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 4:24 PM To: 'Idle-Tyme'; amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on Handy I found there to be little or no difference when rotating the polarity. I've also been asked what frequency I was listening on. The FT817 was in USB mode and the displayed frequency was 432.04340MHz David G8OQW -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Idle-Tyme Sent: 18 April 2010 21:05 To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on Handy have you peaked them in polarity also? The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 4/18/2010 2:37 PM, David Barber wrote: > OK, I know nobody is going to believe this buton my life... > > I have been outside with an FT-817 connected via a very short piece of coax > to a Diamond A430S10R (small 10 element beam modified for handheld use) and > headphones and KP4AO was just audible on SSB. > > Signals were inconsistent but solid enough to copy their callsign and CQ > calls around 19.00UTC and the odd information exchange thereafter. > > Now they've switched to CW copy is a good 80%. > > No signal strength showing on S-Meter of course but who cares. > > I would never have believed it had I not heard it with my own ears. > > Note: NO preamp was used. > > David > G8OQW > JO01FR > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on Handy
I forgot to add earlier that signal readings during the JT65B operation were in the -20 dB range. One peaked at -18 dB; the others stayed between -20 dB and -22 dB. I sat on my patio and pointed the Elk at the sliver of the moon I could see at roughly 80 degrees elevation, just to my south. Radio - Yaesu FT-857D Power - Panasonc gel cell battery Antenna - Elk 2M/440L5 Coax - RG8X, 6-foot length Preamp - None Computer - Acer Aspire One netbook Interface - SignaLink USB Software - WSJT7 73 to all, Tim - N3TL From: Tim - N3TL To: david.bar...@dbelectronics.co.uk; Idle-Tyme ; amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sun, April 18, 2010 6:06:32 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on Handy David and all, I copied them here at 432.0446 in CW using a Yaesu FT-817ND and Elk dual-band yagi with 6 feet of RG8X between the antenna and the radio, no preamp. I copied them in CW between 1958 and 2000 UTC here, then switched to my FT-857D (which will transmit 20 watts on 70cm instead of the 817's 5) just as they were switching to JT65B. When I heard the digital mode, I quickly set up my Acer netbook and SignaLink USB, and copied multiple contacts in the digital mode quite easily - again with just the Elk and no preamp. Congratulations to the stations I copied KP4AO working in JT65B this afternoon - UA4FRL, AF6O, W1ICW, SQ7DQX, SV2DCD, UR4UAR and SV2RM. I tried to reach them in JT65B, and threw all 20 watts at them, too ... hihi. Nothing ventured, nothing gained! What a thrill to hear and copy them on the QRP radio in CW and in the digital weak-signal mode. My congratulations and thanks to Joe Taylor, K1JT, and the KP4AO club for organizing and staging the event. 73 to all, Tim - N3TL -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of David Barber Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 4:24 PM To: 'Idle-Tyme'; amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on Handy I found there to be little or no difference when rotating the polarity. I've also been asked what frequency I was listening on. The FT817 was in USB mode and the displayed frequency was 432.04340MHz David G8OQW -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Idle-Tyme Sent: 18 April 2010 21:05 To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on Handy have you peaked them in polarity also? The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 4/18/2010 2:37 PM, David Barber wrote: > OK, I know nobody is going to believe this buton my life... > > I have been outside with an FT-817 connected via a very short piece of coax > to a Diamond A430S10R (small 10 element beam modified for handheld use) and > headphones and KP4AO was just audible on SSB. > > Signals were inconsistent but solid enough to copy their callsign and CQ > calls around 19.00UTC and the odd information exchange thereafter. > > Now they've switched to CW copy is a good 80%. > > No signal strength showing on S-Meter of course but who cares. > > I would never have believed it had I not heard it with my own ears. > > Note: NO preamp was used. > > David > G8OQW > JO01FR > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on Handy
Well I would have to say "well done" on this - quite an achievement I think bearing in mind I was probably close enough to hear them via ground wave ( :-D ) and I was using a pointy antenna set up and you were using an h/t at the bottom of your garden (in what is, I know, an extremely RF noisy environment) from the other side of the pond! Great result. 73 David KG4ZLB On 4/18/2010 15:37, David Barber wrote: OK, I know nobody is going to believe this buton my life... I have been outside with an FT-817 connected via a very short piece of coax to a Diamond A430S10R (small 10 element beam modified for handheld use) and headphones and KP4AO was just audible on SSB. Signals were inconsistent but solid enough to copy their callsign and CQ calls around 19.00UTC and the odd information exchange thereafter. Now they've switched to CW copy is a good 80%. No signal strength showing on S-Meter of course but who cares. I would never have believed it had I not heard it with my own ears. Note: NO preamp was used. David G8OQW JO01FR ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb -- David KG4ZLB www.kg4zlb.com ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on Handy
KP4AO was copied in Wall Township, NJ (home of the first successful moonbounce experiment in 1946 (http://www.k3pgp.org/1946eme.htm)). Equipment was set up in my backyard, and included a handheld 8-element quagi pointed toward the crescent moon through breaks in the cumulus clouds, 6 feet of RG/8 foam, a Yaesu FT-726R, and no preamp. Many CW contacts were copied on Sunday 18-Apr-2010 between 1925 and 1954 UTC on 432.042 MHz, with many 5NN reports being given. The effects of Libration Fading were clearly evident on all transmissions making solid copy somewhat difficult during dips in signal level. Significant levels of RFI in the form of broadband hash and birdies radiated from neighboring homes raised doubt as to whether a preamp would have done much to aid reception. (Fortunately, the moon was at 70+ degrees elevation at the time, minimizing the noise.) At one point, I hung the antenna from my clothesline and could still copy KP4AO! This is only fitting, since the 6 director string in my quagi were fashioned using clothes hanger wire. :-) Congratulations and thanks to all involved! 73, de John, KD2BD ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo--MUCH louder today!
Hearing them R3 S1 here in UK. Peaking S3. 19 element Tonna on 4ft ground mounted tripod. SSB SP7000 IC910 David G8OQW -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Mark L. Hammond Sent: 17 April 2010 18:41 To: Amsat-bb Subject: [amsat-bb] Arecibo--MUCH louder today! Hearing test carriers MUCH better today! Give it a listen, they are saying 350W output today (rather than 30W yesterday ;) 73! Mark N8MH Mark L. Hammond [N8MH] ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo--MUCH louder today!
At 09:41 AM 4/17/2010, Mark L. Hammond wrote: >Hearing test carriers MUCH better today! Give it a listen, they are >saying 350W output today (rather than 30W yesterday ;) > >73! > >Mark N8MH > >Mark L. Hammond [N8MH] > > >___ >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb Nothing heard here, but the M2 11-element yagi (11.3 dBd/13.4 dBi) cannot be elevated (Moon is now 18-deg) so probably Moon is out of the beam. I am using a Gasfet preamp on this antenna whose normal use is for terrestrial 70cm SSB/FM. Back to work on getting the dish ready (perhaps tomorrow?): hooking up 432 antenna, preamps for 432 & 1296, and 432 TR relay, plus getting az-el system calibrated. Got the 432 & 1296 Pa's installed yesterday and some things that didn't work out and will have to be done after the weekend. All wiring to the dish have to be tested, yet. Yeah, a bit behind the curve for working Arecibo ;-) 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 == BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 144-600w, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-fall 2010 DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com == ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo--MUCH louder today!
Today on my single M2 antenna, many times they are Q5. Their amp has made a difference from yesterday when they were outputting only about 30 watts or so. For those who want to hear them live from a real antenna (25 meter dish!), check out this link: http://websdr.camras.nl:8901/ Move the frequency slider to about 432.044 and they are 20dB over S9! Maybe one day, maybe one day. Hmm, do I have enough room in my yard for a 25 meter dish? Also, I hear them much better on RHCP. And I got my money's worth on my receive preamp. Without the preamp I can't hear a thing. 73 de W4AS ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo--MUCH louder today!
I didn't hear them at all yesterday, but today they about RST 22 on phone. Using KLM 435-18c and left hand polarization. SSB Elec mast mounted amp. CW should be better. It is interesting to watch/listen to the web cast: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/kp4ao-eme The sign on the op position says 350 watts today. W8EH On 4/17/2010 1:41 PM, Mark L. Hammond wrote: > Hearing test carriers MUCH better today! Give it a listen, they are saying > 350W output today (rather than 30W yesterday ;) > > 73! > > Mark N8MH > > Mark L. Hammond [N8MH] > > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo--MUCH louder today!
At 10:31 AM 4/17/2010, Edward Cole wrote: >At 09:41 AM 4/17/2010, Mark L. Hammond wrote: > >Hearing test carriers MUCH better today! Give it a listen, they are > >saying 350W output today (rather than 30W yesterday ;) > > > >73! > > > >Mark N8MH > > > >Mark L. Hammond [N8MH] > > > > > >___ > >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > >Nothing heard here, but the M2 11-element yagi (11.3 dBd/13.4 dBi) >cannot be elevated (Moon is now 18-deg) so probably Moon is out of >the beam. I am using a Gasfet preamp on this antenna whose normal >use is for terrestrial 70cm SSB/FM. > >Back to work on getting the dish ready (perhaps tomorrow?): hooking >up 432 antenna, preamps for 432 & 1296, and 432 TR relay, plus >getting az-el system calibrated. Got the 432 & 1296 Pa's installed >yesterday and some things that didn't work out and will have to be >done after the weekend. All wiring to the dish have to be tested, >yet. Yeah, a bit behind the curve for working Arecibo ;-) > > >73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 >== >BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com >EME: 144-600w, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-fall 2010 >DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com >== > >___ >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb Briefly heard voice on 432.044.500 about 1920 when Moon was 24.5 deg.elevation; maybe the Moon traversed a sidelobe of my yagi? I checked with KL7XJ who is also trying to hear Arecibo to see if he might have been transmitting - he was not. No other 432 SSB stations within 70-miles so that rules out QRM. 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 == BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 144-600w, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-fall 2010 DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com == ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo--MUCH louder today!
I'm copying them today. Was able to hear the SSB just barely above noise, marginal copy. On CW, they're between 519 and 529 on my 7 element WA5VJB cheap yagi and mast-mounted SSB electronics premp grafted onto my 2m EME array. I was able to detect the signal yesterday using WSJT, but it wasn't audible. Now I wish I had more power/antenna so I could get a QSO. 73, Sean - VA5LF On 17/04/2010 1:08 PM, Ernie Howard wrote: > > I didn't hear them at all yesterday, but today they about RST 22 on > phone. Using KLM 435-18c and left hand polarization. SSB Elec mast > mounted amp. CW should be better. > > It is interesting to watch/listen to the web cast: > http://www.ustream.tv/channel/kp4ao-eme > > The sign on the op position says 350 watts today. > > W8EH > > > > On 4/17/2010 1:41 PM, Mark L. Hammond wrote: >> Hearing test carriers MUCH better today! Give it a listen, they are saying >> 350W output today (rather than 30W yesterday ;) >> >> 73! >> >> Mark N8MH >> >> Mark L. Hammond [N8MH] >> >> >> ___ >> Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo now running JT65B
Go get them Mark. Just copied them working S51WX on that mode also. I will listen (look) for you to work them. Good luck, Rick WA4NVM > Just printed them ;) > > I might have to hook it up and try to send them a signal...we'll see. > > > Mark L. Hammond [N8MH] > > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo now running JT65B
uplink change for JT65B. Down has been 045+/- SSB Uplink, was 050 - 060. Today JT65B Uplink seems to be 044-050. I just worked them on USB 432.044 JT65B WF1F --- On Sun, 4/18/10, Rick - WA4NVM wrote: > From: Rick - WA4NVM > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo now running JT65B > To: "Amsat-bb" , "Mark L. Hammond" > > Date: Sunday, April 18, 2010, 4:29 PM > Go get them > Mark. Just copied them working S51WX on > that mode also. > > I will listen (look) for you to work them. > > Good luck, > Rick WA4NVM > > > > > Just printed them ;) > > > > I might have to hook it up and try to send them a > signal...we'll see. > > > > > > Mark L. Hammond [N8MH] > > > > > > ___ > > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. > Opinions expressed are those of the author. > > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the > amateur satellite program! > > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. > Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur > satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo and circular polarization using cheap yagis
At 12:16 PM 4/15/2010, Douglas Quagliana wrote: >I heard Arecibo would be using circular polarization, but I haven't heard >if it will be left or right-handed circular polarization. > >I also heard that there's a way to do circular polarization with the popular >"cheap yagis." Apparently the details are in an article in the April 1999 >issue of CQ VHF "Cheap Circular Polarization? It Can Be Done" on pages >66-69. > >Is there anyone on the list that has this back issue that can tell me what >the method is that is described in this article? Is it a physical >quarter-wave >displacement on the same boom? Two booms with a quarter-wave coax delay? >Something else? How is the circular polarization done with the cheap yagis? > >Douglas KA2UPW/5 > > >___ >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb You are running out of time to build a CP antenna system for the Arecibo eme event, aren't you? I would not worry about it and just use a simple yagi in any polarity. Yes, you will lose 3-dB of the signal from Arecibo, but it probably won't matter much if your antenna is big enough. Arecibo will be transmitting an effective power of 441 Mw. But if you want to make a CP antenna from a yagi, you need two sets of elements perpendicular to each other (i.e. two antennas mounted on a single boom or two separate antennas one rotated 90-degrees in polarity from the other. If both are mounted so the antennas are in-phase you need to split the feedline and add 1/4 wavelength of cable to one antenna. Or you can split the feedline equally if one antenna is spaced 1/4 wavelength ahead of the other. The relation of the fed elements determine whether you get RH or LH CP. The center conductor is connected to one side of the fed element (this is called the + side). If the antenna to the rear (or not with extra feedline) is vertical with "+" straight up and the other antenna has its "+" element pointing to the right, you get RHCP. Reverse it and you get LHCP. For antennas in the "X" configuration (back antenna "+" up and to the left, front antenna "=" up and to the right for RHCP. Caveat: I f you have the antenna configured backwards for Arecibo then you will hear nothing. Little understood fact of eme: RHCP signals are reflected by the Moon as LHCP signals back to earth, and vice versa. We have no info on Arecibo, but for hams the convention is to Tx - RHCP and RX - LHCP for eme. So if you build a CP antenna and you plan to transmit, also, you will need a polarity switching system between Tx and Rx. I am building a simple two-element Quagi (linear pol) to feed my dish (24.5 dBi). VK3UM spreadsheet says Arecibo will hear me with a +20 dB signal on SSB. 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 == BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 144-600w, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-fall 2010 DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com == ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo and circular polarization using cheap yagis
- Original Message - From: "Edward Cole" To: "Douglas Quagliana" ; "amsat" Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 11:49 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo and circular polarization using cheap yagis > > Or you can split the feedline equally if one > antenna is spaced 1/4 wavelength ahead of the other. The relation of > the fed elements determine whether you get RH or LH CP. The center > conductor is connected to one side of the fed element (this is called > the + side). If the antenna to the rear (or not with extra feedline) > is vertical with "+" straight up and the other antenna has its "+" > element pointing to the right, you get RHCP. Reverse it and you get > LHCP. > 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 Hi Ed, KL7UW Please find here a necessary amendment to your statement: We assume that you are looking from the rear of the antenna in direction of propagation and one antenna is spaced 1/4 wavelenght ahead of the other. If the dipole of the rear antenna is vertical with "+" straight up and if the dipole of the front antenna is horizontal and has its "+" element pointing to the left then you get RHCP. Reverse it and you get LHCP In a separate email I have sent to you a drawing showing how two linearly polarized components shifted 90° one to the other adds togheter to generate a circularly polarized wave but I can send the same drawing to everybody need it. > For antennas in the "X" configuration (back antenna "+" up and > to the left, front antenna "=" up and to the right for RHCP. If the signe "=" is a typing mistake and you means " - " (minus) then your statement is correct. 73" de i8CVS Domenico ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo and circular polarization using cheap yagis
Hi All, A picture is worth a thousand words. http://sv1bsx.50webs.com/antenna-pol/polarization.html Maybe this will help.. 73, Rick WA4NVM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo and circular polarization using cheap yagis > > Or you can split the feedline equally if one > antenna is spaced 1/4 wavelength ahead of the other. The relation of > the fed elements determine whether you get RH or LH CP. The center > conductor is connected to one side of the fed element (this is called > the + side). If the antenna to the rear (or not with extra feedline) > is vertical with "+" straight up and the other antenna has its "+" > element pointing to the right, you get RHCP. Reverse it and you get > LHCP. > 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 Hi Ed, KL7UW Please find here a necessary amendment to your statement: We assume that you are looking from the rear of the antenna in direction of propagation and one antenna is spaced 1/4 wavelenght ahead of the other. If the dipole of the rear antenna is vertical with "+" straight up and if the dipole of the front antenna is horizontal and has its "+" element pointing to the left then you get RHCP. Reverse it and you get LHCP In a separate email I have sent to you a drawing showing how two linearly polarized components shifted 90° one to the other adds togheter to generate a circularly polarized wave but I can send the same drawing to everybody need it. > For antennas in the "X" configuration (back antenna "+" up and > to the left, front antenna "=" up and to the right for RHCP. If the signe "=" is a typing mistake and you means " - " (minus) then your statement is correct. 73" de i8CVS Domenico ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo and circular polarization using cheap yagis
At 11:25 AM 4/16/2010 -0500, you wrote: >Hi All, > >A picture is worth a thousand words. > >http://sv1bsx.50webs.com/antenna-pol/polarization.html > >Maybe this will help.. > >73, Rick WA4NVM Rick, Thank you for this! Book-marked! When I get the chance to do the much needed maintenance on my system, I may build new phasing harnesses now. 73, KB7ADL ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo and circular polarization using cheap yagis
At 08:25 AM 4/16/2010, Rick - WA4NVM wrote: >Hi All, > >A picture is worth a thousand words. > >http://sv1bsx.50webs.com/antenna-pol/polarization.html > >Maybe this will help.. > >73, Rick WA4NVM > > >Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo and circular polarization using cheap yagis >> >>Or you can split the feedline equally if one >>antenna is spaced 1/4 wavelength ahead of the other. The relation of >>the fed elements determine whether you get RH or LH CP. The center >>conductor is connected to one side of the fed element (this is called >>the + side). If the antenna to the rear (or not with extra feedline) >>is vertical with "+" straight up and the other antenna has its "+" >>element pointing to the right, you get RHCP. Reverse it and you get >>LHCP. > >>73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 > > >Hi Ed, KL7UW > >Please find here a necessary amendment to your statement: > >We assume that you are looking from the rear of the antenna in direction >of propagation and one antenna is spaced 1/4 wavelenght ahead of the other. > >If the dipole of the rear antenna is vertical with "+" straight up and if >the dipole of the front antenna is horizontal and has its "+" element >pointing to the left then you get RHCP. Reverse it and you get LHCP > > >In a separate email I have sent to you a drawing showing how two linearly >polarized components shifted 90° one to the other adds togheter to generate >a circularly polarized wave but I can send the same drawing to everybody >need it. > >>For antennas in the "X" configuration (back antenna "+" up and >>to the left, front antenna "=" up and to the right for RHCP. > >If the signe "=" is a typing mistake and you means " - " (minus) >then your statement is correct. > >73" de > >i8CVS Domenico > > > > > > > > >___ >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb OK, that seems counterintuitive, but I guess I was not accounting for both driven elements to be fed in-phase. The electrical vector must rotate clockwise to produce RHCP, and so it does in Domenico's drawing. Dom's drawing actually shows the rear driven element horizontal and the forward driven element vertical, but its the relationship that produces the rotation so does not matter (i.e. they both could be angled +45 and -45 degrees in the "X" configuration). I guess my confusion was not accounting for both elements being driven in-phase. My M2 436CP42 looks just like Dom's drawing but it has a 1/2 wavelength longer phasing line between the rear and front driven elements. They say this is the setup for RHCP? It would seem the M2 system would have the front antenna 180-degrees out of phase? So would that not produce LHCP? It is actually easier to visualize with both elements at the same point on the boom and one fed with a 1/4 wave longer feed line. Nice thing about helical antennas is the corkscrew turns in the direction of the rotating wave. 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 == BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 144-600w, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-fall 2010 DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com == ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo and circular polarization using cheap yagis
Hi Rick, WA4NVM Plese look at the two last drawing of the SV1BSX page: http://sv1bsx.50webs.com/antenna-pol/polarization.html You will see that the polarity marked (+) over the dipoles are correct for both the clockwice CW or RHCP polarization as well for the counterclockwise CCW or LHCP polarization. By the way the drawings of the circular pats of the wave along the antennas are wrong and must be inverted. The green path on the top picture is LHCP and must be inverted with the red path in the bottom picture wich is RHCP Sorry I can't informe my very good friend Mak SV1BSX because unfortunately the last year he went SK but he did a very beautiful job. 73" de i8CVS Domenico - Original Message - From: "Rick - WA4NVM" To: "i8cvs" ; "Douglas Quagliana" ; "amsat" ; "Edward Cole" Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 6:25 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo and circular polarization using cheap yagis > Hi All, > > A picture is worth a thousand words. > > http://sv1bsx.50webs.com/antenna-pol/polarization.html > > Maybe this will help.. > > 73, Rick WA4NVM Hi Rick, WA4NVM Plese look at the two last drawing of the SV1BSX page: http://sv1bsx.50webs.com/antenna-pol/polarization.html You will see that the polarity marked (+) over the dipoles are correct for both the clockwice CW or RHCP polarization as well for the counterclockwise CCW or LHCP polarization. By the way the drawings of the circular pats of the wave along the antennas are wrong and must be inverted. The green path on the top picture is LHCP and must be inverted with the red path in the bottom picture wich is RHCP Sorry I can't informe my very good friend Mak SV1BSX because unfortunately the last year he went SK but he did a very beautiful job. 73" de i8CVS Domenico ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo and circular polarization using cheap yagis
- Original Message - From: "Edward Cole" To: "Rick - WA4NVM" ; "i8cvs" ; "Douglas Quagliana" ; "amsat" Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:20 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo and circular polarization using cheap yagis My M2 436CP42 looks just like Dom's drawing but it has a 1/2 wavelength longer phasing line between the rear and front driven elements. They say this is the setup for RHCP? It would seem the M2 system would have the front antenna 180-degrees out of phase? So would that not produce LHCP? It is actually easier to visualize with both elements at the same point on the boom and one fed with a 1/4 wave longer feed line. 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 Hi Ed, KL7UW What the M2 say is correct. In a crossed yagi with vertical and horizontal elements spaced 1/4 wavelenght ( 90°) over the boom if you look from the rear of the antenna toward the direction of radiation the phase relations are as follows: Assume that the power is splitted in two equal parts and the horizontal and vertical dipoles are feed in phase with equal lenghts of coax cable. The inner conductor (+) of one coax cable is connected to the right side of the horizontal rear dipole. The inner conductor (+) of the other coax cable is connected to the upper side of the front vertical dipole. With the above coax cable connections and +90° of phase shift over the boom the antenna radiates RHCP If you now add a 1/2 electrical wavelenght (180°) to the coax cable supplying the front dipole then the polarization reverses in LHCP because 90° of mechanical shift over the boom minus 180° for the 1/2 wavelength of coax cable make a difference of - 90° This is exactly what your M2 436CP42 does when switching between RHCP to LHCP I agree with you that it is actually easier to visualize with both elements at the same point on the boom and one fed with a 1/4 wave longer feed line. 73" de i8CVS Domenico ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo and circular polarization using cheap yagis
But what about antennas like the M2 ants where it's a balanced feed, and there is no + side of the element or coax? The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 4/16/2010 9:37 PM, i8cvs wrote: > - Original Message - > From: "Edward Cole" > To: "Rick - WA4NVM"; "i8cvs"; > "Douglas Quagliana"; "amsat" > Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:20 PM > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo and circular polarization using cheap > yagis > > My M2 436CP42 looks just like Dom's drawing but > it has a 1/2 wavelength longer phasing line > between the rear and front driven elements. They > say this is the setup for RHCP? It would seem > the M2 system would have the front antenna > 180-degrees out of phase? So would that not > produce LHCP? It is actually easier to visualize > with both elements at the same point on the boom > and one fed with a 1/4 wave longer feed line. > > 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 > > > Hi Ed, KL7UW > > What the M2 say is correct. > > In a crossed yagi with vertical and horizontal elements spaced 1/4 > wavelenght ( 90°) over the boom if you look from the rear of the > antenna toward the direction of radiation the phase relations are as > follows: > > Assume that the power is splitted in two equal parts and the horizontal > and vertical dipoles are feed in phase with equal lenghts of coax cable. > > The inner conductor (+) of one coax cable is connected to the right side > of the horizontal rear dipole. > The inner conductor (+) of the other coax cable is connected to the upper > side of the front vertical dipole. > > With the above coax cable connections and +90° of phase shift over the > boom the antenna radiates RHCP > > If you now add a 1/2 electrical wavelenght (180°) to the coax cable > supplying the front dipole then the polarization reverses in LHCP because > 90° of mechanical shift over the boom minus 180° for the 1/2 wavelength > of coax cable make a difference of - 90° > > This is exactly what your M2 436CP42 does when switching between > RHCP to LHCP > > I agree with you that it is actually easier to visualize with both elements > at the same point on the boom and one fed with a 1/4 wave longer feed > line. > > 73" de > > i8CVS Domenico > > > > > > > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo and circular polarization using cheap yagis
- Original Message - From: "Idle-Tyme" To: Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 4:51 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo and circular polarization using cheap yagis But what about antennas like the M2 ants where it's a balanced feed, and there is no + side of the element or coax? The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com Hi Idle-Tyme The M2 antennas uses folded dipoles wich is a balanced system with impedance of 200 ohm. In order to transform the impedance from 200 to 50 ohm and change from a balanced system (the folded dipole) to a unbalanced system (the 50 ohm feed line) a 1/2 electrical wavelenght of 50 ohm coax cable called balun is connected with the inner conductors across the dipole studs. the braids of the 1/2 electrical wavelenght coax balun are soldered togheter with the braid of the 50 ohm coax feed line and grounded to the center of the antenna boom. The side of the folded dipole connected to the inner conductor of the feed line is the (+) side of the element. I hope this helps 73" de i8CVS Domenico ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
Was this sent out on april 1st? The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 4/10/2010 9:20 PM, i8cvs wrote: > Hi All, > > The specifications of the Arecibo Observatory Amateur Radio Club > for the 432 MHz Moon Bounce test on April 16-17 and 18 are as > follows: > > Dish diameter: 1000 foot equivalent to 305 meters > Antenna gain: 60 dBi > Tx power: 400 W > Tx Frequency: 432.045 MHz > > Since the given ERP is 243,902,443 Million Watts (see below) > and since 60 dB is equivalent to 100 (one Million) time in > power it comes out that the power reaching the feed of the dish is: > > 243902443 / 100 = 243 watt > > The rest of the power 400-243 = 157 watt is lost in the feed line. > > At 432 MHz a dish with a diameter of 305 meters has a -3dB points > main lobe angle equal to: > > Theta = Lambda / Diameter = 0.69 / 305 = 0.00227 rad. > > The above lobe of the dish at an average distance of 38 km > light up a small circular surface S over the moon wich diameter is: > > D = 38 x 0.00227 = 865 km > > The surface area S = (3.14 x 865^2) / 4 = 5.88 x 10^11 square meters > > All the radiated power of 243 watt by the dish is now collected over > the above S area. > > The reflectivity of the moon at 432 MHz is the 7% so that the power > scattered back isotropically by the moon is ( 243/100 ) x 7 = 17 watt > > It is like to say that the power reflected back by the moon is 17 watt > feeding an isoptropic antenna or 17 watt EIRP or +12 dBW EIRP > radiated isotropically by the moon. > > Since the surface of the moon lighed up by the dish is less then the whole > surface of the moon the usual calculation procedure for the EME link > considering the isotropic attenuation earth-moon-earth cannot be used > here because as seen by the Arecibo dish the diameter of the moon is > smaller than in reality and is large only 865 km in diameter not 3476 km > as is large in reality the moon. > > With this is mind we must imagine the dish of Arecibo to be an isotropic > antenna with 17 watt applied to it and transmitting all around isotropically > from the moon. > > My ground antenna has a gain G= 15 dBi and an antenna picked up noise > of 70 kelvin when looking at the cold sky > > My receiving system at 432 MHz has an overall Noise Figure of 0.7 dB > equivalent to 50 kelvin so that the noise floor KTB of my receiving system > in SSB with a bandwidth of 2400 Hz is > > KTB=1,38 x 10^-23 x (50 + 70) x 2400=3.97x10^-18 watt= -174 dBW > > LINK BUDGED CALCULATION: > > Isotropic power reflected by the moon...+12 dBW > Isotropic attenuation for 380.000 Km.. - 197 dB > --- > Power received on isotropic earth ant... - 185 dBW > Ground antenna gain...+ 15 dBi > --- > Power applied to ground receiver..- 170 dBW > Noise floor of ground receiver..- 174 dBW > --- > Received Signal to Noise ratio S/N...+ 4 dB > > By the way when KP4AO will operate on CW I can switch on the 500 Hz > filter on my receiver and here I will gain in sensitivity 2400/500 = 4.8 > time and 10 log 4.8 = 6.8 dB so that I gain 4 + 6.8 = 10.8 dB of overall > 10 > Signal to Noise ratio > > If I can stake two 70 cm antennas with gain 15 dBi each I can gain about > another 3 dB and I can improve the S/N ratio to 10.8 + 3 = 13.8 dB > > If I can stack four 70 cm antennas with gain 15 dBi each I can gain about > another 3 dB and I can improve the S/N ratio up to 13.8 + 3 = 16.8 dB > a real very strong signal on CW or 16.8 - 6.8 = 10 dB in SSB Signal to > Noise ratio wich is considered to be optimal for a comfortable reception > in SSB > > By the way to work EME using a big dish having a lobe with an aperture > angle "theta" smaller than the diameter subtended by the moon wich > is about 0.5 degrees i.e. 0.0087 radiants is useful only for the big dish to > hear better those stations using smaller dishes but the big dish to be > received better by the smaller one's "must" use more power and not increase > the diameter of the dish because as soon as the moon is completely resolved > the power scattered back isotropically do not increase increasing the > diameter of the dish. > > In conclusion I believe that ground stations with an antenna gain of 15 dBi > and a receiving system with an overall Noise Figure of about 1 dB can easily > hear KP4AO on CW and barely in the noise on SSB > > Stations with the same receiver overall Noise Figure and antenna gain from > 18 to 21 dB can hear KP4AO on CW and SSB without problems. > > Stations using 100 watt or more and the above antennas ranging from 15 dBi > to 21 dBi have chance to make QSO with KP4AO on CW > > The above calculation shows that it is very difficult to hear KP4AO or be > heard us
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
A quick look at the access from Europe shows that the moon is in a similar location to the sun next weekend. So higher gain antennas on 70cm will help reduce sun noise too. Good luck Dom, thanks for the analysis. 73 David G0MRF The above calculation shows that it is very difficult to hear KP4AO or be heard using a small hand-held yagi pointed at the moon. Have fun 73" de i8CVS Domenico ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
Hi David, G0MRF During the Arecibo EME test on day 16 April from 16:45 to 19:30 UTC the sunset for me in JN70ES will be at 18:01 UTC so that no noise will be received from the sun when it is belove the horizon and the moon at 20° Elevation On day 17 April during EME test from 17:40 to 20:20 UTC the sunset will be similarly at 18:06 UTC On day 18 April during EME test from 18:40 to 21:25 the sunset will happen before the beginning of the test and at 18:40 UTC the sun's elevation will be already negative -10° with the moon for us at 36° elevation In Europe the situation is similar and we should have no problems receiving and trying QSO's with Arecibo using antennas and receivers for satellite traffic as on FO-29 and HO-68 The problem is that in Europe there are many powerful 432 MHz EME stations and everybody will be hungry to make QSO with KP4AO In USA the situation is completely different because the elevation of the sun and the moon is about the same around 60° but the azimut is shifted several degrees so that using antennas with gain of 15 dBi or more the sun noise should be rejected. Good luck with Arecibo to everybody 73" de i8CVS Domenico - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 9:53 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations) > > A quick look at the access from Europe shows that the moon is in a similar > location to the sun next weekend. So higher gain antennas on 70cm will help > reduce sun noise too. > > Good luck Dom, thanks for the analysis. > > 73 > > David G0MRF > > > The above calculation shows that it is very difficult to hear KP4AO or be > heard using a small hand-held yagi pointed at the moon. > > Have fun > > 73" de > > i8CVS Domenico > > > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
Hello all, just a curiosity, how did you found that the ERP is "... 243,902,443 Million Watts". Thanks 73s Fabio iw8qku - Original Message - From: "MM" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 3:06 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce > Hi all: > Here is a EME event you cant miss. > Dust off your CW key, its time for Satellite, QRP EME. > > The 1,000 foot dish has 60 dBi on 432 mc and 400 watts. > That comes out to be approximately 243,902,443 Million Watts ERP. > > enjoy > > wf1f > www.marexgm.org > > (thanks to KB1MGI for passing on this data) > > > Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce > > The Arecibo Observatory Amateur Radio Club will be putting the > 1000-foot radio telescope on the air for 432 MHz EME from April 16-18. > > It can be heard with a small hand-held yagi pointed at the moon > > The scheduled times of operation are: > > April 16: 1645 - 1930 UTC > > April 17: 1740 - 2020 UTC > > April 18: 1840 - 2125 UTC > > Callsign: KP4AO > > Tx Frequency: 432.045 MHz > > Rx Frequency: 432.050 to 432.060+ > > Tx power: 400 W > > Antenna gain: 60 dBi > > System noise temp: 120 K (cold sky) > > System noise temp: 330 K (when pointed at moon) > > KP4AO can be heard with a small hand-held yagi pointed at the moon and a > good receiver. A 15 dBi antenna and 100 W will be enough to work us on > CW. > > Operators at KP4AO will do their best to work as many stations as > possible. Each session will start with a brief announcement and CQ in > SSB. SSB QSOs may continue for 30 minutes to an hour, if the QSO rate > remains high. > > The mode will be shifted to CW as soon as it is judged that higher QSO > rates would result. > > We will listen for calls at frequencies 5-15 kHz higher than our own, > and even higher if QRM warrants. Callers who s-p-r-e-a-d o-u-t are more > likely to be copied. > > If you've already worked us in any mode, please do not call again -- > give others a chance. > > If we call "CQ QRP", we will listen for stations running 100 W or less > to a single yagi. Please do not answer such a CQ if you are running more > power or have a larger antenna. > > On April 18, if we reach a condition where most calling stations have > been worked, and we judge that operating in the digital mode JT65B would > produce a higher QSO rate, we will switch to JT65B. > > Note that any of these planned operating strategies may be changed as > circumstances dictate. > > We are extremely fortunate to have been granted access to the world's > largest radio telescope for this amateur radio good-will event. We look > forward to working as many stations as possible in the alloted time! > > >From QRZ.COM > > KB1MGI ...snip... ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
60dBi is abt 57dB It means 10exp5,7 ERP was 400x10exp5,7 W - Original Message - From: "Fabio A" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:26 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations) > Hello all, > just a curiosity, how did you found that the ERP is "... 243,902,443 > Million > Watts". > > Thanks > > 73s > Fabio > iw8qku > > - Original Message - > From: "MM" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 3:06 PM > Subject: [amsat-bb] Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce > > >> Hi all: >> Here is a EME event you cant miss. >> Dust off your CW key, its time for Satellite, QRP EME. >> >> The 1,000 foot dish has 60 dBi on 432 mc and 400 watts. >> That comes out to be approximately 243,902,443 Million Watts ERP. >> >> enjoy >> >> wf1f >> www.marexgm.org >> >> (thanks to KB1MGI for passing on this data) >> >> >> Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce >> >> The Arecibo Observatory Amateur Radio Club will be putting the >> 1000-foot radio telescope on the air for 432 MHz EME from April 16-18. >> >> It can be heard with a small hand-held yagi pointed at the moon >> >> The scheduled times of operation are: >> >> April 16: 1645 - 1930 UTC >> >> April 17: 1740 - 2020 UTC >> >> April 18: 1840 - 2125 UTC >> >> Callsign: KP4AO >> >> Tx Frequency: 432.045 MHz >> >> Rx Frequency: 432.050 to 432.060+ >> >> Tx power: 400 W >> >> Antenna gain: 60 dBi >> >> System noise temp: 120 K (cold sky) >> >> System noise temp: 330 K (when pointed at moon) >> >> KP4AO can be heard with a small hand-held yagi pointed at the moon and a >> good receiver. A 15 dBi antenna and 100 W will be enough to work us on >> CW. >> >> Operators at KP4AO will do their best to work as many stations as >> possible. Each session will start with a brief announcement and CQ in >> SSB. SSB QSOs may continue for 30 minutes to an hour, if the QSO rate >> remains high. >> >> The mode will be shifted to CW as soon as it is judged that higher QSO >> rates would result. >> >> We will listen for calls at frequencies 5-15 kHz higher than our own, >> and even higher if QRM warrants. Callers who s-p-r-e-a-d o-u-t are more >> likely to be copied. >> >> If you've already worked us in any mode, please do not call again -- >> give others a chance. >> >> If we call "CQ QRP", we will listen for stations running 100 W or less >> to a single yagi. Please do not answer such a CQ if you are running more >> power or have a larger antenna. >> >> On April 18, if we reach a condition where most calling stations have >> been worked, and we judge that operating in the digital mode JT65B would >> produce a higher QSO rate, we will switch to JT65B. >> >> Note that any of these planned operating strategies may be changed as >> circumstances dictate. >> >> We are extremely fortunate to have been granted access to the world's >> largest radio telescope for this amateur radio good-will event. We look >> forward to working as many stations as possible in the alloted time! >> >> >From QRZ.COM >> >> KB1MGI > > ...snip... > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
Hello, thanks for the reply, but now I have another question. I'm not good enough with those numbers! If the calculated ERP is about 243 MW... which derives from changing from dBi to dBd (60dBi - 2.14), the part I don't understand is: "*Since the given ERP is 243,902,443 Million Watts (see below) and since 60 dB is equivalent to 100 (one Million) time in power it comes out that the power reaching the feed of the dish is: 243902443 / 100 = 243 watt The rest of the power 400-243 = 157 watt is lost in the feed line.*" How do they have feeder losses? thanks in advance, 73s Fabio iw8qku On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 8:45 AM, Mateusz wrote: > > 60dBi is abt 57dB > It means 10exp5,7 > ERP was 400x10exp5,7 W > > - Original Message - From: "Fabio A" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:26 PM > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations) > > > Hello all, >> just a curiosity, how did you found that the ERP is "... 243,902,443 >> Million >> Watts". >> >> Thanks >> >> 73s >> Fabio >> iw8qku >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "MM" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 3:06 PM >> Subject: [amsat-bb] Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce >> >> >> Hi all: >>> Here is a EME event you cant miss. >>> Dust off your CW key, its time for Satellite, QRP EME. >>> >>> The 1,000 foot dish has 60 dBi on 432 mc and 400 watts. >>> That comes out to be approximately 243,902,443 Million Watts ERP. >>> >>> enjoy >>> >>> wf1f >>> www.marexgm.org >>> >>> (thanks to KB1MGI for passing on this data) >>> ... snip ... >>> >> ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
The anomoly you see is because the 60dB gain given is dBi and the "real" gain used to calculate the power is dBd (gain referenced to a dipole and not isotropic). The difference is around 2.4dB. On 21-Apr-10 11:46, Fabio Azzarello wrote: > Hello, > thanks for the reply, but now I have another question. > I'm not good enough with those numbers! > > If the calculated ERP is about 243 MW... which derives from changing from > dBi to dBd (60dBi - 2.14), > the part I don't understand is: > > "*Since the given ERP is 243,902,443 Million Watts (see below) > and since 60 dB is equivalent to 100 (one Million) time in > power it comes out that the power reaching the feed of the dish is: > 243902443 / 100 = 243 watt > > The rest of the power 400-243 = 157 watt is lost in the feed line.*" > > How do they have feeder losses? > thanks in advance, > > 73s > Fabio > iw8qku > > > > On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 8:45 AM, Mateusz wrote: > >> >> 60dBi is abt 57dB >> It means 10exp5,7 >> ERP was 400x10exp5,7 W >> >> - Original Message - From: "Fabio A" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:26 PM >> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations) >> >> >> Hello all, >>> just a curiosity, how did you found that the ERP is "... 243,902,443 >>> Million >>> Watts". >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> 73s >>> Fabio >>> iw8qku >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "MM" >>> To: >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 3:06 PM >>> Subject: [amsat-bb] Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce >>> >>> >>> Hi all: >>>> Here is a EME event you cant miss. >>>> Dust off your CW key, its time for Satellite, QRP EME. >>>> >>>> The 1,000 foot dish has 60 dBi on 432 mc and 400 watts. >>>> That comes out to be approximately 243,902,443 Million Watts ERP. >>>> >>>> enjoy >>>> >>>> wf1f >>>> www.marexgm.org >>>> >>>> (thanks to KB1MGI for passing on this data) >>>> ... snip ... >>>> >>> > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.814 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2825 - Release Date: 04/21/10 > 06:31:00 > -- Nigel A. Gunn, 1865 El Camino Drive, Xenia, OH 45385-1115, USA. tel +1 937 825 5032 Amateur Radio G8IFF W8IFF (was KC8NHF), e-mail ni...@ngunn.net www http://www.ngunn.net Member of ARRL, GQRP #11396, QRPARCI #11644, SOC #548, Flying Pigs QRP Club International #385, Dayton ARA #2128, AMSAT-NA LM-1691, AMSAT-UK 0182, MKARS, ALC, GCARES, XWARN. ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
- Original Message - From: "Fabio A" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:26 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations) > Hello all, > just a curiosity, how did you found that the ERP is "... 243,902,443 > Million Watts". > > Thanks > > 73s > Fabio > iw8qku > Hi Fabio, IW8QKU The only official data given for Arecibo by WF1F are the following : > The 1,000 foot dish has 60 dBi on 432 mc and 400 watts. > That comes out to be approximately 243,902,443 Million Watts ERP. > > enjoy > > wf1f To answere your question: "how did WF1F found that the ERP is "... 243,902,443 Million Watts". THERE ARE TWO POSSIBLE OUTCOMES: Outcome Nr 1 or first possibility: Since the given ERP is 243,902,443 Million Watts (see the WF1F above statement ) and since 60 dB is equivalent to 100 (one Million) time in power it comes out that the power reaching the feed of the dish must be: 243902443 / 100 = 243 watt The rest of the power 400-243 = 157 watt must be losted in the feed line because the 400 watt amplifier is non mounted inside the feet but there should be a feed line long half the diameter of the dish from the feed and the operating point made of low loss big coax cable almost 150 or 200 meters long wich attenuation is 10 log (400/ 243) = 2.16 dB 10 Outcome Nr 2 or second possibility: The 243,902,443 Million Watt ERP has been calculated in a wrong way considering the gain of the dish not 60 dBi or 60 dB over the isotropic antenna but 60 -2.14 = 57.86 dB wich is the gain over the dipole or 57.86 dBd and infact the wrong calculation showes: 10^ 5.786 = 610942 Million time in power and 400 watt x 610942 = 244,376,810 Million Watt ERP wich match very close with the value " 243,902,443 Million Watt" given by WF1F but it is a wrong value because it has been calculated with a gain of 57.86 dB instead of 60 dB In order to know the real numbars a more informative clearification from the Arecibo Observatory Amateur Radio Club is welcome and necessary. I hope this helps 73" de i8CVS Domenico ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
Of course, this ia all rubbish as the stated power of 243TeraWatts (READ BELOW CAREFULLY) is clearly not true. That would require an antenna gain of, in the regeon of, 120dB. On 21-Apr-10 17:49, i8cvs wrote: > > The only official data given for Arecibo by WF1F are the following : > >> The 1,000 foot dish has 60 dBi on 432 mc and 400 watts. >> That comes out to be approximately 243,902,443 Million Watts ERP. >> ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
- Original Message - From: "Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF" To: "i8cvs" Cc: "Fabio A" ; "AMSAT-BB" ; "Mateusz" Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations) > Of course, this ia all rubbish as the stated power of 243TeraWatts (READ BELOW CAREFULLY) is clearly not true. > That would require an antenna gain of, in the regeon of, 120dB. > > On 21-Apr-10 17:49, i8cvs wrote: > > > > > The only official data given for Arecibo by WF1F are the following : > > > >> The 1,000 foot dish has 60 dBi on 432 mc and 400 watts. > >> That comes out to be approximately 243,902,443 Million Watts ERP. > >> Hi Nigel, G8IFF/W8IFF I disagree with your numbars: 1 tera watt =1 TW = 1 x 10^12 watt or 1,000,000,000,000 watt 1 mega watt = 1MW = 1 x 10^6 watt or 1,000,000 watt or 1 million watt So 243,902,443 million watt ERP = 243,902,443 MW ERP as WF1F writes is CORRECT By the way the gain of Arecibo is 60 dBi or 1.000.000 time in power and not 120 dB = 1. x 10^12 or 1.000.000.000.000 time in power 73" de i8CVS Domenico ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
What was written was (243 million, 902 thousand, 443 units) million watts. That's 243 Terawatts. On 21-Apr-10 21:23, i8cvs wrote: > > I disagree with your numbars: > > 1 tera watt =1 TW = 1 x 10^12 watt or 1,000,000,000,000 watt > > 1 mega watt = 1MW = 1 x 10^6 watt or 1,000,000 watt or 1 million watt > > So 243,902,443 million watt ERP = 243,902,443 MW ERP as WF1F > writes is CORRECT ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
Domenico: I suspect that the difference of opinion has to do with the
difference in punctuation (',' vs. '.') used with large numbers.
In typical American usage,
243,902,443 Million Watts = 243,902,443,000,000 watts = 243.9 trillion watts
243.902 443 million watts = 243,902,443 watts = 243.9 million watts
without the punctuation ->
243 902 443 million watts = 243 902 443 000 000 watts = almost 244 trillion
watts.
So, I think that if the comma is used as a 3-decade separator and not a
decimal point, that the original posting was in fact a million times
overstated. I hope that clarifies it.
If not, then think of it this way.
400 watts x 0 dB = 400 watts
400 watts x 10 dB = 4000 watts = 4 kilowatts
400 watts x 20 dB = 4 watts = 40 kilowatts
400 watts x 30 dB = 40 watts = 400 kilowatts
400 watts x 40 dB = 400 watts = 4000 kilowatts = 4 megawatts
400 watts x 50 dB = 4000 watts = 4 kilowatts = 40 megawatts
400 watts x 60 dB = 4 watts = 40 kilowatts = 400 megawatts
They were nowhere close to 400 000 000 (400 million) megawatts of ERP.
400,000,000 million = 400 million million = 400 terawatts
400.000.000 million = 400 million = 400 megawatts
73 de W0JT
On Apr 21 2010, i8cvs wrote:
>- Original Message -
>From: "Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF"
>To: "i8cvs"
> Cc: "Fabio A" ; "AMSAT-BB" ;
> "Mateusz"
>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 9:07 PM
>Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some
>calculations)
>
>> Of course, this ia all rubbish as the stated power of 243TeraWatts (READ
>BELOW CAREFULLY) is clearly not true.
>> That would require an antenna gain of, in the regeon of, 120dB.
>>
>> On 21-Apr-10 17:49, i8cvs wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > The only official data given for Arecibo by WF1F are the following :
>> >
>> >> The 1,000 foot dish has 60 dBi on 432 mc and 400 watts.
>> >> That comes out to be approximately 243,902,443 Million Watts ERP.
>> >>
>
>Hi Nigel, G8IFF/W8IFF
>
>I disagree with your numbars:
>
>1 tera watt =1 TW = 1 x 10^12 watt or 1,000,000,000,000 watt
>
>1 mega watt = 1MW = 1 x 10^6 watt or 1,000,000 watt or 1 million watt
>
>So 243,902,443 million watt ERP = 243,902,443 MW ERP as WF1F
>writes is CORRECT
>
>By the way the gain of Arecibo is 60 dBi or 1.000.000 time in power
>and not 120 dB = 1. x 10^12 or 1.000.000.000.000 time in power
>
>73" de
>
>i8CVS Domenico
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[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
- Original Message - From: "Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF" To: "i8cvs" Cc: "Fabio A" ; "AMSAT-BB" ; "Mateusz" Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 11:37 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations) > What was written was (243 million, 902 thousand, 443 units) million watts. > That's 243 Terawatts. > > On 21-Apr-10 21:23, i8cvs wrote: > > > > > I disagree with your numbars: > > > > 1 tera watt =1 TW = 1 x 10^12 watt or 1,000,000,000,000 watt > > > > 1 mega watt = 1MW = 1 x 10^6 watt or 1,000,000 watt or 1 million watt > > > > So 243,902,443 million watt ERP = 243,902,443 MW ERP as WF1F > > writes is CORRECT Hi Nigel, G8IFF/W8IFF Wath make confusion in the WF1F statements are the comma he writes between numbars. He writes "That comes out to be approximately 243,902,443 Million Watts ERP." Since the gain of Arecibo is 60 dBi = 100 time in power it is more correct to write 243902443 watt ERP or 243,902443 million watt ERP or 243,902443 MW ERP or better approximate to 244 MW ERP 73" de i8CVS Domenico ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
Agreed. The only thing, other than for times and dates, that I write between numbers is a decimal point. Commas and dots to split numbers into groups of three have no use. OK, I might write 5 megawatts as 5E6 watts. On 21-Apr-10 22:22, i8cvs wrote: > > Wath make confusion in the WF1F statements are the comma he writes > between numbars. > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
People need to learn engineering significance. Just because a calculator spits out 9 digits of precision, using them all shows a lack of understanding. The value is 244 million watts. The significance of all the other digits is absolutely meaningless! The original post was about 400 watts and 60dBi gain. Neither of those numbers has more than 3 significant digits, Throw in the gain of a dipole over isotropic which is also a round number of about 2.14 therefore the answer CANNOT HAVE MORE THAN 3 digits of precision or it is WRONG. The answer given implies a precision that does not exist. And if you ask me, the 400 Watts is probably only significant to maybe 2 digits and from their experience with their Power Amp, I'd say that they only knew their TX power to ONE significant digit. So I would not even use the number 244. I would say "about 200 million Watts" because that is all the precision we can know from the inputs. When an engineering student gives me such an answer I shoot them down hard! Numbers convey not only VALUE but PRECISION. And implying PRECISION where it does not exist is wrong. Sorry, but everyone else has given their opinion, so I may as well say mine ;-) Bob, Wb4aPR ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
That because we English do it that way. The rest of the Europe, Germany and France for instance, seem to like inserting a comma instead! :-D David KG4ZLB On 4/21/2010 18:45, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF wrote: Agreed. The only thing, other than for times and dates, that I write between numbers is a decimal point. Commas and dots to split numbers into groups of three have no use. OK, I might write 5 megawatts as 5E6 watts. On 21-Apr-10 22:22, i8cvs wrote: ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb -- David KG4ZLB www.kg4zlb.com ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
And, as usual, your opinion is absolutely true. Only needs to be to the precision that you can measure or the nearest "preferred value". On 21-Apr-10 22:57, Robert Bruninga wrote: > People need to learn engineering significance. Just because a > calculator spits out 9 digits of precision, using them all shows > a lack of understanding. The value is 244 million watts. The > significance of all the other digits is absolutely meaningless! ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
Comma or no comma, shouldn't matter 1000 mega watts or 1,000 Mega watts is still one thousand million watts! NOT one thousands watts. true? The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 4/21/2010 6:14 PM, David - KG4ZLB wrote: > That because we English do it that way. The rest of the Europe, > Germany and France for instance, seem to like inserting a comma instead! > > :-D > > David > KG4ZLB > > > > > > On 4/21/2010 18:45, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF wrote: >> Agreed. >> >> The only thing, other than for times and dates, that I write between >> numbers is a decimal point. >> Commas and dots to split numbers into groups of three have no use. >> >> OK, I might write 5 megawatts as 5E6 watts. >> >> >> >> On 21-Apr-10 22:22, i8cvs wrote: >> >>___ >> Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite >> program! >> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> > > > ___ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
Is it the original? I had a mass produced plastic one (with a 50Hz motor) back in the early 1980's (or earlier). Unfortunately, your web site doesn't appear to give dates. On 21-Apr-10 23:28, Idle-Tyme wrote: > > The Original Rolling Ball Clock > Idle Tyme > Idle-Tyme.com > http://www.idle-tyme.com ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
- Original Message - From: "Idle-Tyme" To: Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 1:28 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations) > Comma or no comma, shouldn't matter > 1000 mega watts or 1,000 Mega watts is still one thousand million > watts! NOT one thousands watts. true? > > The Original Rolling Ball Clock > Idle Tyme > Idle-Tyme.com > http://www.idle-tyme.com > Hi Idle-Tyme I don't agree with your statement: 1000 mega watt are one thousand million watt 1,000 mega watt or 1.000 mega watt is only one million watt because zero after the comma means nothing like 1,0 is still one million watt or 1 MW In addition writing the measuring units the plural must not be used as an example: 1 watt is correct 2 watt is correct 2 watts is wrong The same for Ampere, ohm and so on. 1 ampere is correct 2 ampere is correct 2 amperes is wrong In addition writing the measuring units be careful with the capital letters 1 watt is correct 1 W is correct 1 Watt is wrong 1 ampere is correct 1 A is correct 1 Ampere is wrong 73" de i8CVS Domenico ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
- Original Message -
From:
To: "i8cvs"
Cc: "Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF" ; "AMSAT-BB"
; "Fabio A"
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some
calculations)
> Domenico: I suspect that the difference of opinion has to do with the
> difference in punctuation (',' vs. '.') used with large numbers.
>
> In typical American usage,
> 243,902,443 Million Watts = 243,902,443,000,000 watts = 243.9 trillion
> watts
> 243.902 443 million watts = 243,902,443 watts = 243.9 million watts
>
> without the punctuation ->
>
> 243 902 443 million watts = 243 902 443 000 000 watts = almost 244
> trillion watts.
>
> So, I think that if the comma is used as a 3-decade separator and not a
> decimal point, that the original posting was in fact a million times
> overstated. I hope that clarifies it.
>
> If not, then think of it this way.
>
> 400 watts x 0 dB = 400 watts
> 400 watts x 10 dB = 4000 watts = 4 kilowatts
> 400 watts x 20 dB = 4 watts = 40 kilowatts
> 400 watts x 30 dB = 40 watts = 400 kilowatts
> 400 watts x 40 dB = 400 watts = 4000 kilowatts = 4 megawatts
> 400 watts x 50 dB = 4000 watts = 4 kilowatts = 40 megawatts
> 400 watts x 60 dB = 4 watts = 40 kilowatts = 400 megawatts
>
> They were nowhere close to 400 000 000 (400 million) megawatts of ERP.
>
> 400,000,000 million = 400 million million = 400 terawatts
> 400.000.000 million = 400 million = 400 megawatts
>
> 73 de W0JT
>
Hi , W0JT
I agree with you that the difference of opinion has to do with the
difference in punctuation (',' vs. '.') used respectively in typical
American and
European usage with large numbers so that
400,000,000 million = 400 million million = 400 terawatt in American usage
400.000.000 million = 400 million = 400 megawatt in European usage
like in Germany France and Italy
Tanks and
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
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[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
Yes this is the original made by the person that made and trained most of the assemblers all those years ago. Read the history page it's pretty interesting. The plastic junk one was a license on our patent. We thought of it like a Mc Donalds quarter pounder with cheese vs a nice sirloin steak at a 5 star steak house. They are both Beef. but there IS a big difference. Joe The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 4/21/2010 7:08 PM, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF wrote: > Is it the original? > > I had a mass produced plastic one (with a 50Hz motor) back in the > early 1980's (or earlier). > Unfortunately, your web site doesn't appear to give dates. > > On 21-Apr-10 23:28, Idle-Tyme wrote: > >> >> The Original Rolling Ball Clock >> Idle Tyme >> Idle-Tyme.com >> http://www.idle-tyme.com > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
Hi all, I'm pleased of all those replies... but as I wrote in my previous email ( I agree with Mr. Bruninga ) "ERP is about 243 MW" and that comes from the conversion from dBi to dBd. That's all. No Losses. No difference in decimals punctuation. That's my conclusion... think it is the right one. Thanks for the comments. 73s Fabio IW8QKU On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 1:46 PM, Fabio Azzarello wrote: > Hello, > thanks for the reply, but now I have another question. > I'm not good enough with those numbers! > > If the calculated ERP is about 243 MW... which derives from changing from > dBi to dBd (60dBi - 2.14), > the part I don't understand is: > > "*Since the given ERP is 243,902,443 Million Watts (see below) > and since 60 dB is equivalent to 100 (one Million) time in > power it comes out that the power reaching the feed of the dish is: > 243902443 / 100 = 243 watt > > The rest of the power 400-243 = 157 watt is lost in the feed line.*" > > How do they have feeder losses? > thanks in advance, > > 73s > Fabio > iw8qku > > > > On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 8:45 AM, Mateusz wrote: > >> >> 60dBi is abt 57dB >> It means 10exp5,7 >> ERP was 400x10exp5,7 W >> >> - Original Message - From: "Fabio A" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2010 8:26 PM >> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations) >> >> >> Hello all, >>> just a curiosity, how did you found that the ERP is "... 243,902,443 >>> Million >>> Watts". >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> 73s >>> Fabio >>> iw8qku >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ... snip ... >>>> >>> > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
Ah, but this focuses on my question: Why is ERP referenced to a dipole? Why did someone assume that Arecibo's stated gain of 60 dB was dBd and not dBi? I've never seen the gain of a dish antenna used in satellite work quoted in dBd. All of the references for calculating gain are based on the isotropic reference. And all of the usages I have seen (in professional satellite work) use ERP and EiRP interchangeably, and the i in EiRP is used to explicitly state "referenced to isotropic." In fact, the amateur community is the only place where there is a fascination with the dipole reference. The dBd specs are useless for any real calculation purposes. Satcom engineering is much simpler if everyone quotes isotropic, and all commercial/government/military satellite link budgets are based on isotropic references. Steve Melachrinos W3HF (Professional) Satcom Engineer since 1979 > "ERP is about 243 MW" and > that comes from the conversion from dBi to dBd. ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
On 4/21/2010 8:25 PM, i8cvs wrote: >> Comma or no comma, shouldn't matter >> 1000 mega watts or 1,000 Mega watts is still one thousand million >> watts! NOT one thousands watts. true? >> >> The Original Rolling Ball Clock >> Idle Tyme >> Idle-Tyme.com >> http://www.idle-tyme.com >> >> > Hi Idle-Tyme > > I don't agree with your statement: > > 1000 mega watt are one thousand million watt > 1,000 mega watt or 1.000 mega watt is only one million watt because > zero after the comma means nothing like 1,0 is still > one million watt or 1 MW > NO! it's a comma, not a decimal point! it's one thousand, one thousand written 1000 or 1,000 is still one thousand they are exactly the same. ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
I guess because it's impossible to build an isotropic radiator and therefore just as impossible to measure it. Why would I believe, or want to use, something I can neither have, use or measure? An isotropic antenna doesn't exist. On 22-Apr-10 10:20, Stephen Melachrinos wrote: > In fact, the amateur community is the only place where there is a fascination > with the dipole reference. > -- Nigel A. Gunn, 1865 El Camino Drive, Xenia, OH 45385-1115, USA. tel +1 937 825 5032 Amateur Radio G8IFF W8IFF (was KC8NHF), e-mail ni...@ngunn.net www http://www.ngunn.net Member of ARRL, GQRP #11396, QRPARCI #11644, SOC #548, Flying Pigs QRP Club International #385, Dayton ARA #2128, AMSAT-NA LM-1691, AMSAT-UK 0182, MKARS, ALC, GCARES, XWARN. ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
At 02:20 AM 4/22/2010, Stephen Melachrinos wrote: >Ah, but this focuses on my question: Why is ERP referenced to a >dipole? Why did someone assume that Arecibo's stated gain of 60 dB >was dBd and not dBi? I've never seen the gain of a dish antenna used >in satellite work quoted in dBd. All of the references for >calculating gain are based on the isotropic reference. And all of >the usages I have seen (in professional satellite work) use ERP and >EiRP interchangeably, and the i in EiRP is used to explicitly state >"referenced to isotropic." > >In fact, the amateur community is the only place where there is a >fascination with the dipole reference. > >The dBd specs are useless for any real calculation purposes. Satcom >engineering is much simpler if everyone quotes isotropic, and all >commercial/government/military satellite link budgets are based on >isotropic references. > >Steve Melachrinos >W3HF >(Professional) Satcom Engineer since 1979 > > > > "ERP is about 243 MW" and > > that comes from the conversion from dBi to dBd. >___ >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb In fact the first gain number published over a month ago was 58 dBi. Then I suppose a bunch of hams complained that they didn't understand isotropic gain so the Arecibo folks kindly converted the number to 60 dBd. (i.e. unity isotropic gain, dBi=0, is what a true omni-directional antenna produces in free space) Does anyone on this reflector know the formula for calculating gain of a parabolic dish (Yes, I know-I'm asking if you know)? Did you know that Arecibo dish is spherical and not parabolic? So we can only use the gain number they provide (BTW the UHF line-feed corrects for spherical aberration of the dish surface at Arecibo). Arecibo can track a small amount of angle "because" the dish is spherical. It is my understanding (might be wrong on this) the line-feed can adjust for the amount of surface irradiated (which will change the gain). The formula normally used in radio astronomy and mw engineering is in terms of dBi. Most (not all) eme hams use dBi vs dBd. I am really amazed at this thread on amsat-bb. I thought the satellite community was more globally oriented (International). The different convention in expressing decimal numbers (aka using comma or period) is pretty well known (I thought). US/UK use period and most EU use comma. Most antenna analysis sw express gain in dBi 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 == BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 144-600w, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-fall 2010 DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com == ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
At 07:46 AM 4/22/2010, Edward Cole wrote: >At 02:20 AM 4/22/2010, Stephen Melachrinos wrote: > >Ah, but this focuses on my question: Why is ERP referenced to a > >dipole? Why did someone assume that Arecibo's stated gain of 60 dB > >was dBd and not dBi? I've never seen the gain of a dish antenna used > >in satellite work quoted in dBd. All of the references for > >calculating gain are based on the isotropic reference. And all of > >the usages I have seen (in professional satellite work) use ERP and > >EiRP interchangeably, and the i in EiRP is used to explicitly state > >"referenced to isotropic." > > > >In fact, the amateur community is the only place where there is a > >fascination with the dipole reference. > > > >The dBd specs are useless for any real calculation purposes. Satcom > >engineering is much simpler if everyone quotes isotropic, and all > >commercial/government/military satellite link budgets are based on > >isotropic references. > > > >Steve Melachrinos > >W3HF > >(Professional) Satcom Engineer since 1979 > > > > > > > "ERP is about 243 MW" and > > > that comes from the conversion from dBi to dBd. > >___ > >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > >In fact the first gain number published over a month ago was 58 >dBi. Then I suppose a bunch of hams complained that they didn't >understand isotropic gain so the Arecibo folks kindly converted the >number to 60 dBd. (i.e. unity isotropic gain, dBi=0, is what a true >omni-directional antenna produces in free space) > >Does anyone on this reflector know the formula for calculating gain >of a parabolic dish (Yes, I know-I'm asking if you know)? Did you >know that Arecibo dish is spherical and not parabolic? So we can >only use the gain number they provide (BTW the UHF line-feed corrects >for spherical aberration of the dish surface at Arecibo). Arecibo >can track a small amount of angle "because" the dish is >spherical. It is my understanding (might be wrong on this) the >line-feed can adjust for the amount of surface irradiated (which will >change the gain). > >The formula normally used in radio astronomy and mw engineering is in >terms of dBi. Most (not all) eme hams use dBi vs dBd. > >I am really amazed at this thread on amsat-bb. I thought the >satellite community was more globally oriented (International). The >different convention in expressing decimal numbers (aka using comma >or period) is pretty well known (I thought). US/UK use period and >most EU use comma. > >Most antenna analysis sw express gain in dBi hmm dBi = dBd +2.15. Gain of dipole = 1.64 10Log(1.64) = 2.15 dB so what gives here? is it 58 dBd and 60 dBi? Sorry if I wrote that backwards. Or we just playing around with significant numbers and gain is approx 58 to 60 dB (somethings). Pat, Joe? can you please clear up this mess and state for everyone what the gain is for Arecibo on 432-MHz? 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 == BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 144-600w, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-fall 2010 DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com == ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
- Original Message - From: "Edward Cole" To: ; Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 5:46 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations) Hi Ed, KL7UW You writes: > In fact the first gain number published over a month ago was 58 > dBi. Then I suppose a bunch of hams complained that they didn't > understand isotropic gain so the Arecibo folks kindly converted the > number to 60 dBd. (i.e. unity isotropic gain, dBi=0, is what a true > omni-directional antenna produces in free space) > > 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 Ed , you have reversed dBi with dBd 58 dBi cannot be converted to 60 dBd because the gain of a dipole over the isotropic antenna is 2.14 dB then 60 dBd is corresponding to 60 + 2.14 = 62.14 dBi By the way 58 dBd is corresponding to 60.14 dBi rounded to 60 dBi wich is the official gain given for Arecibo at 432 MHz 73" de i8CVS Domenico ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
Wow that's all messed up? I'm 52 and this is the very first time i have ever seen anything like this and i have been dealing with science worldwide all my life. wow. Joe The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 4/22/2010 1:14 PM, Sil - ZL2CIA wrote: > Idle-Tyme wrote: >> On 4/21/2010 8:25 PM, i8cvs wrote: Comma or no comma, shouldn't matter 1000 mega watts or 1,000 Mega watts is still one thousand million watts! NOT one thousands watts. true? The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com >>> Hi Idle-Tyme >>> >>> I don't agree with your statement: >>> >>> 1000 mega watt are one thousand million watt >>> 1,000 mega watt or 1.000 mega watt is only one million watt because >>> zero after the comma means nothing like 1,0 is still >>> one million watt or 1 MW >> NO! it's a comma, not a decimal point! it's one thousand, one >> thousand written 1000 or 1,000 is still one thousand they are exactly >> the same. > That's only true in the English speaking world, and this is the cause > of the confusion in this debate. > > In the Netherlands (and most of Europe), you would write one thousand > million watts as 1.000 megawatts. > > The decimal indicator in Europe is a comma. > For example, > 1,5 means one and a half > 1.000.000 means one million. > > Sil > (ex PA3HIL) > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
do you calculators have commas? The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 4/22/2010 1:14 PM, Sil - ZL2CIA wrote: > Idle-Tyme wrote: >> On 4/21/2010 8:25 PM, i8cvs wrote: Comma or no comma, shouldn't matter 1000 mega watts or 1,000 Mega watts is still one thousand million watts! NOT one thousands watts. true? The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com >>> Hi Idle-Tyme >>> >>> I don't agree with your statement: >>> >>> 1000 mega watt are one thousand million watt >>> 1,000 mega watt or 1.000 mega watt is only one million watt because >>> zero after the comma means nothing like 1,0 is still >>> one million watt or 1 MW >> NO! it's a comma, not a decimal point! it's one thousand, one >> thousand written 1000 or 1,000 is still one thousand they are exactly >> the same. > That's only true in the English speaking world, and this is the cause > of the confusion in this debate. > > In the Netherlands (and most of Europe), you would write one thousand > million watts as 1.000 megawatts. > > The decimal indicator in Europe is a comma. > For example, > 1,5 means one and a half > 1.000.000 means one million. > > Sil > (ex PA3HIL) > > ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
- Original Message - From: "Sil - ZL2CIA" To: "Idle-Tyme" Cc: "i8cvs" ; "AMSAT-BB" Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:14 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations) > In the Netherlands (and most of Europe), you would write one thousand > million watts as 1.000 megawatts. > > The decimal indicator in Europe is a comma. > For example, > 1,5 means one and a half > 1.000.000 means one million. > > Sil > (ex PA3HIL) Hi Sil, ZL2CIA In Italy you would write one thousand million watt as 1000 megawatt or alternatively 1000 MW In addition the units in Italy are written without plural and to write megawatts is wrong in Italy but the plural is used in England and USA In any calculator 1.5 means one and half because the calculators are not using comma. In any calculator 100. means one million I thing that the best for everybody should be to write numbars as any calculator shows. 73" de i8CVS Domenico ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
I think we should all use hexidecimal. Or binary :) Mark N8MH Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: "i8cvs" Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 23:12:16 To: Sil - ZL2CIA; Idle-Tyme Cc: AMSAT-BB Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations) - Original Message - From: "Sil - ZL2CIA" To: "Idle-Tyme" Cc: "i8cvs" ; "AMSAT-BB" Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:14 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations) > In the Netherlands (and most of Europe), you would write one thousand > million watts as 1.000 megawatts. > > The decimal indicator in Europe is a comma. > For example, > 1,5 means one and a half > 1.000.000 means one million. > > Sil > (ex PA3HIL) Hi Sil, ZL2CIA In Italy you would write one thousand million watt as 1000 megawatt or alternatively 1000 MW In addition the units in Italy are written without plural and to write megawatts is wrong in Italy but the plural is used in England and USA In any calculator 1.5 means one and half because the calculators are not using comma. In any calculator 100. means one million I thing that the best for everybody should be to write numbars as any calculator shows. 73" de i8CVS Domenico ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
There is also the group of Virtucons who use gagillion, fafillion, shabolubalu million illion yillion, when describing lasers. I believe this was first described in a movie with Mr. Myers. 73 de W4AS On Apr 22, 2010, at 5:31 PM, Mark Hammond N8MH wrote: > I think we should all use hexidecimal. Or binary :) > > Mark N8MH > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -Original Message- > From: "i8cvs" > Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 23:12:16 > To: Sil - ZL2CIA; Idle-Tyme > Cc: AMSAT-BB > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations) > > - Original Message - > From: "Sil - ZL2CIA" > To: "Idle-Tyme" > Cc: "i8cvs" ; "AMSAT-BB" > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:14 PM > Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some > calculations) > >> In the Netherlands (and most of Europe), you would write one thousand >> million watts as 1.000 megawatts. >> >> The decimal indicator in Europe is a comma. >> For example, >> 1,5 means one and a half >> 1.000.000 means one million. ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
--- On Thu, 4/22/10, Mark Hammond N8MH wrote:
> I think we should all use
> hexidecimal. Or binary :)
I tell my electronics students that we can express gain or loss in dB by taking
the log of power ratios and multiplying by 10, or by taking the log of the
voltage or current ratios and multiplying by 20.
If we multiply the log by 16 instead, then the result is expressed in
hexadecibels. :-)
("Hexabels" sounds too much like a made-up word.)
73, de John, KD2BD
--
Visit John on the Web at:
http://kd2bd.ham.org/
___
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[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
Nigel - There are lots of lots of reasons ... 1. All link budgets use a path loss calculation that's also referenced to an isotropic radiator. If you use antenna gain referenced to a dipole, you'll have to add back the gain of the dipole (referenced to the isotropic radiator). 2. It's the standard way of calculating gain for virtually all professionals in the satellite, radar, deep space, avionics, microwave and many other fields. 3. Arguably, dBi is less ambiguous that dBd. By definition, an isotropic reference has the same gain (0 dB) in all directions. A dipole has a directional pattern, so dBd only makes sense if you also define the direction. I believe the assumption is gain broadside to the antenna, but that is still an assumption. 4. If you don't want to actually do link budgets, so you say reason #1 above is irrelevant, then your only real purpose is to compare two different antennas. And then the difference is always going to be dB, whether the two antennas are specified in dBi or dBd. So I still say to use the universal, unambiguous standard. 5. Finally, and most significantly, your statement "Why would I believe, or want to use, something I can neither have, use or measure? An isotropic antenna doesn't exist." is just as applicable to the ideal dipole that is your reference for dBd as it is to an isotropic radiator. You can't build a dipole that has zero resistance along its physical length, you can't build a dipole that has zero interaction with its feedline, and you certainly can't achieve any placement that perfectly represents the "dipole in free space" assumption upon which the dBd reference is based. In summary, there are plenty of reasons whay virtually anyone who builds or uses antennas for a living, does it in dBi Steve W3HF > Apr 22, 2010 09:15:04 AM, ni...@ngunn.net wrote: > I guess because it's impossible to build an isotropic radiator and therefore > just as impossible to measure it. > Why would I believe, or want to use, something I can neither have, use or > measure? > > An isotropic antenna doesn't exist. > > > In fact, the amateur community is the only place where there is a > > fascination with the dipole reference. ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
dBi is used in range calculations because a isotropic antenna has an even radiating field leaving only distance as a variable when calculating path loss. After determining the path loss for a given distance, the antenna gain, transmit power, receiver sensitivity, receiver noise, cable loss, and connector losses are factored into the equation to give a link budget. With the excess allocated to fade margin. ERP calculations are used by regulatory agency's to determine possible interference. Art, KC6UQH -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Edward Cole Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:47 AM To: w...@arrl.net; amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations) At 02:20 AM 4/22/2010, Stephen Melachrinos wrote: >Ah, but this focuses on my question: Why is ERP referenced to a >dipole? Why did someone assume that Arecibo's stated gain of 60 dB >was dBd and not dBi? I've never seen the gain of a dish antenna used >in satellite work quoted in dBd. All of the references for >calculating gain are based on the isotropic reference. And all of >the usages I have seen (in professional satellite work) use ERP and >EiRP interchangeably, and the i in EiRP is used to explicitly state >"referenced to isotropic." > >In fact, the amateur community is the only place where there is a >fascination with the dipole reference. > >The dBd specs are useless for any real calculation purposes. Satcom >engineering is much simpler if everyone quotes isotropic, and all >commercial/government/military satellite link budgets are based on >isotropic references. > >Steve Melachrinos >W3HF >(Professional) Satcom Engineer since 1979 > > > > "ERP is about 243 MW" and > > that comes from the conversion from dBi to dBd. >___ >Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. >Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb In fact the first gain number published over a month ago was 58 dBi. Then I suppose a bunch of hams complained that they didn't understand isotropic gain so the Arecibo folks kindly converted the number to 60 dBd. (i.e. unity isotropic gain, dBi=0, is what a true omni-directional antenna produces in free space) Does anyone on this reflector know the formula for calculating gain of a parabolic dish (Yes, I know-I'm asking if you know)? Did you know that Arecibo dish is spherical and not parabolic? So we can only use the gain number they provide (BTW the UHF line-feed corrects for spherical aberration of the dish surface at Arecibo). Arecibo can track a small amount of angle "because" the dish is spherical. It is my understanding (might be wrong on this) the line-feed can adjust for the amount of surface irradiated (which will change the gain). The formula normally used in radio astronomy and mw engineering is in terms of dBi. Most (not all) eme hams use dBi vs dBd. I am really amazed at this thread on amsat-bb. I thought the satellite community was more globally oriented (International). The different convention in expressing decimal numbers (aka using comma or period) is pretty well known (I thought). US/UK use period and most EU use comma. Most antenna analysis sw express gain in dBi 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 == BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 144-600w, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-fall 2010 DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubus...@hotmail.com == ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5051 (20100422) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5051 (20100422) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
[amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations)
The mathematical model is well proven. The difference between a isotropic and a dipole antenna is 2.1 dB. The practical accuracy of field strength measurements on a antenna range is +/- 3dB, making this whole discussion theoretical. (Just In The Interest Of Science) or JITIOS! Art, KC6UQH -Original Message- From: amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 6:15 AM To: w...@arrl.net Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org; Stephen Melachrinos Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Arecibo on 432 MHz Moon Bounce (some calculations) I guess because it's impossible to build an isotropic radiator and therefore just as impossible to measure it. Why would I believe, or want to use, something I can neither have, use or measure? An isotropic antenna doesn't exist. On 22-Apr-10 10:20, Stephen Melachrinos wrote: > In fact, the amateur community is the only place where there is a fascination with the dipole reference. > -- Nigel A. Gunn, 1865 El Camino Drive, Xenia, OH 45385-1115, USA. tel +1 937 825 5032 Amateur Radio G8IFF W8IFF (was KC8NHF), e-mail ni...@ngunn.net www http://www.ngunn.net Member of ARRL, GQRP #11396, QRPARCI #11644, SOC #548, Flying Pigs QRP Club International #385, Dayton ARA #2128, AMSAT-NA LM-1691, AMSAT-UK 0182, MKARS, ALC, GCARES, XWARN. ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5051 (20100422) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5051 (20100422) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
