subject:"\[AsburyPark\] Re\: The Plan..."

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, fancypaaantz [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 Maybe Wonder Bar will have some of that food. 

The trick is knowing HOW to cook/make/serve it.





 
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[AsburyPark] Re: The plan needs

2008-01-15 Thread fancypaaantz

Maybe Wonder Bar will have some of that food. I cannot wait to sip a 
beer outside the Wonder Bar, have a burger and listen to 80s music 
that I use to love :) Hopefully my dog will be behaved enough that 
he can join us this summer. Good times.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 In a message dated 1/15/2008 9:36:26 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 porkroll,, steak sandwiches, cal burgers, sausage n peppers, 
waffles n  Ice 
 cream and some 
 traditional boardwalk junk - for the sake of  history.
 
 I see I might have a purpose.
  
 Ah yes! Pork roll and cheese on traditional Kneip rolls 
(originally made  for 
 Steinbach's Restaurant according to Helen Pike).
  
 Find a spot to plant West End's  original Windmill structure and 
(Joe and 
 Barbara's) Inkwell, maybe even  Max's hot dogs on our Circuit 
since they no 
 longer suit Long  Branch's yuppie  cookie cutter. 
  
 And steal the Heritage festivals from the Garden State  Arts 
Center (I'm 
 still in denial about PNC): Polish, German, Italian, Scottish,  et 
al.
  
 Like Oceanport's residents during the track season,  let us with 
space 
 provide the extra parking spaces for a fee.   
  
 Gotta be one realistic idea in that wish  list.
  
 If not, no prob.  I'm still excited about  yesterday's press 
release.
  
  
 
 
 
 **Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in 
shape. 
 http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?
NCID=aolcmp0030002489





 
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[AsburyPark] Re: The plan needs

 Max's /Windmill - schickhaus vs Sabrett.. for fun on the bw - 
we'd even had both and then through in Hebrew nationals..barbecue or 
grilled. Here's another my mrs.. when my daughter was born some 18 
years ago - I left them at Monmouth medical and stopped at the 
windmill. Something about them at 1 am so now, there's quite a 
few times I come down at 6 am and see some fries left over on the 
counter and the rest of the mess - it's my kids - not mine.
_
When I first stated my website, I began with:
1999:
This time - it is real. The City is on the right track and have 
secured redevelopers for the Oceanfront and crumbling Boardwalk 
buildings. 

In addition to the boardwalk redevelopment, many other individuals 
have been buying homes and stores in the City of Asbury Park and 
bringing the homes and business community back to life -once again 
creating a sense of neighborhood. 
.
My daughter, 12 (in 2002), after reviewing the plans - ...wow,,it 
will be the coolest place in the country...I can't wait... Tick-
tock.

Hopefully, her kids won't be updating this page when I'm long gone.
__

So now college time is approaching and I hope Dan helps me find a 
place in NYC for my little princess..








 
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[AsburyPark] Re: The plan needs

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, fancypaaantz [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 THAT WOULD BE A GREAT IDEA! Windmill on the BW.
 
That was an almost. 

you also have the mayfair. The older the grill, the better - like a 
pizza stone.



 
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[AsburyPark] Re: The plan needs

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, fancypaaantz [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

People would come to hope that would be 
 the night Bruce would come and play...
 

...while he didn't own it - that kind of place would of been Mrs. Jays 
or the Pony. Depending on what Mccloone does upstairs  - that could be 
that kind of place. I was in Pier H last winter on sunday night late - 
Mccloone, Banderia and a couple others played til 2am - almost nonstop 
and I think we got there pretty early - the night never ended.

MM did say they intend to bring together the 4 venues - CH, WB, Pony 
and Paramount. Something about creating Entertainment. With the 
proposed new venues and utilization of existing ones - MM, my guess, is 
that they intend to MARKET them to their fullest. They did a good job 
of using the boardwalk and plaza this summer and the CH arcade in the 
winter.

It's realestate management - creating value and EFFECTIVE marketing.



 
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[AsburyPark] Re: The plan needs

2008-01-15 Thread fancypaaantz

I love the Pony, don't get me wrong, but I also think a Bruce owned 
blues club would be a huge draw. The Pony has a lot of alternative 
music (which is my thing), Convention Hall gets the metal stuff (not 
my thing), we also have the punk stuff, I think a Blues club could 
round it out. 


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, fancypaaantz fancypaaantz@ 
 wrote:
 
 People would come to hope that would be 
  the night Bruce would come and play...
  
 
 ...while he didn't own it - that kind of place would of been Mrs. 
Jays 
 or the Pony. Depending on what Mccloone does upstairs  - that 
could be 
 that kind of place. I was in Pier H last winter on sunday night 
late - 
 Mccloone, Banderia and a couple others played til 2am - almost 
nonstop 
 and I think we got there pretty early - the night never ended.
 
 MM did say they intend to bring together the 4 venues - CH, WB, 
Pony 
 and Paramount. Something about creating Entertainment. With the 
 proposed new venues and utilization of existing ones - MM, my 
guess, is 
 that they intend to MARKET them to their fullest. They did a good 
job 
 of using the boardwalk and plaza this summer and the CH arcade 
in the 
 winter.
 
 It's realestate management - creating value and EFFECTIVE 
marketing.





 
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RE: [AsburyPark] Re: The plan needs

2008-01-15 Thread Debbie DeLisa


If the Wonder Bar reopens The Windmill will be going in there!


To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:51:18 
+Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: The plan needs




--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, fancypaaantz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
THAT WOULD BE A GREAT IDEA! Windmill on the BW. That was an almost. you also 
have the mayfair. The older the grill, the better - like a pizza stone.

[AsburyPark] Re: The plan needs

2008-01-15 Thread apoojo

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Debbie DeLisa debbiedelisa@ 
 wrote:
 
  
  If the Wonder Bar reopens The Windmill will be going in there!
 
 
 You meant When
 
 I totally agree, as a wise man told me 5 months ago, the biggest $ 
grossing night of the W.B. was closing night, which will be squashed by 
the gross of the reopening night, could not happen to better people 
than Debbie and Lance, best of luck and welcome back!will see you 
opening night, a mini Bar A with outside bars and volley ball to go 
with your windmill hot dog, gootta love it  





 
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[AsburyPark] Re: The plan needs

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, apoojo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


  
  I totally agree, as a wise man told me 5 months ago, the biggest $ 
 grossing night of the W.B. was closing night, which will be squashed 
by 

A wise man on the boardwalk once showed his receipts from the 1960's 
when soda was 10 cents as was ice cream. That's why he coudn't take it 
any longer because when he showed me, it was $1.00 and he was doing 
less.

That's why there is opportunity. Sorry if I tied it to $. 

These wisemen see it. That's why there is a call to action





 
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RE: [AsburyPark] Re: The plan needs

2008-01-15 Thread Debbie DeLisa


I forgot to say Gary is going to put in a dog run outside so we can have Doggy 
Happy Hour every night!  Hooray!


To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:39:15 
+Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: The plan needs




--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, apoojo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I totally agree, as a wise man told me 5 months ago, the biggest $  grossing 
night of the W.B. was closing night, which will be squashed by A wise man on 
the boardwalk once showed his receipts from the 1960's when soda was 10 cents 
as was ice cream. That's why he coudn't take it any longer because when he 
showed me, it was $1.00 and he was doing less.That's why there is opportunity. 
Sorry if I tied it to $. These wisemen see it. That's why there is a call to 
action

[AsburyPark] Re: The plan needs

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Debbie DeLisa [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 
 I forgot to say Gary is going to put in a dog run outside so we can 
have Doggy Happy Hour every night!  Hooray!
 
 

Good.

I knew I said ok to a dog for a reason other then making me run around 
at 6:30 am. 



 
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[AsburyPark] Re: The plan needs

2008-01-15 Thread restore881FM

I forgot to mention the Wonder Bar and my glee to see that it's coming back
in my 2 cents posted on Asbury Radio. Like to get your feedback. This is
basically what I posted:

Motolla's Plans Stir Hope Questions
The president and financial head of Madison Marquette Investments, Gary
Motolla, must have mined every big name in the area over the past few months
to
put together his star-studded cast for the boardwalk's revival.
We don't see any clunkers among the names we recognized, but are saddened
not to see Eddie Gaspar's restaurant in the First Avenue Pavilion (formerly
The Tides) missing from the press release and news report. Maybe we missed it.
We'd like to see more transparency in these announcements and plans. The
announcement yesterday was termed a “press conference”, but we didn't get the
feeling there were a lot of press questions answered, from the report by Nancy
Shields in the APP, and we don't see anything in the Star-Ledger today.
Channel 12 had a report last night, which seemed pretty much a replay of the
press release with some local shots of the boardwalk.
What's nagging at us --
We agree wholeheartedly with Mottola that the city can't come back without a
concerted effort to stimulate all its facets, including things seemingly as
diverse as the downtown business district and our educational system.
Mottola's willingness to take on the residential developments, since Charles
-- tear
down that old historic carousel house, it's in my way -- Kushner decided to
dump Wesley Lake and run is wise, too. How can you say come and have a great
time when those empty windows are gaping at tourists like so many open
mouths? But what about the impossible deal Asbury Partners left hanging in the
air,
which amounts to tentacles that remain in the project long after the
property deed is signed over?
We're talking about, in addition to the per unit development rights of about
$100k per, the 7% piece on the sale of every unit, and $20,000 per unit for
the infrastructure improvement reimbursement, and the Partners’ retention of
all commercial rights on the sites. This is the piece of the story that never
gets discussed. When we’ve brought it up, we’re quickly hushed up.
This is why the developers have been trying to achieve mission impossible -
build quality units with skilled labor with the best materials, and sell at
market rates, while giving the Partners their share -- and ride out a
Recession, and a credit and real estate Crash. No wonder it caved in.
In the Press, Hugh Lamle, of MD Sass, a partner in Asbury Partners, hinted
at needing to help Dean Geibel of Metro Homes, whose building the Esperanza
is now suspended in animation, a cold reminder on the same piece of land as
the famous symbol of the last fiasco. He got caught in this national
financing debacle, Lamle's quoted saying. Was it the “national debacle” or a
far
more local one? Perhaps the Partners' Mission Impossible Deal?
He can’t do much about the national economy but is Lamle willing to change
this impossible agreement? Loosen the handcuffs?
Mottola is quoted saying he needs to negotiate a subsequent redeveloper
agreement with the city for the boardwalk plans and an agreement on the
Kushner
properties. Is this when the tentacles of the existing contracts with Asbury
Partners will bare their slimy barbs? Isn't the city itself, mum at yesterday’
s press conference, also negotiating yet another agreement with the Partners
-- the global settlement agreement?
Was Kushner's decision to pull out prompted at all by his unwillingness to
fork over 7% of the sale of the Wesley Grove units to Asbury Partners?
Twenty-two have been sold; we'd like to know if 7% of those sale prices went to

the Partners. It's time the residents and officials of Asbury Park knew the
details of these deals.
And, by the way, where is Cherokee Investments? Last time we looked they
were 50% of Asbury Partners. Don't they have a say in this? Our former
redevelopment attorney Jimmy Aaron said Cherokee put $30 million into the
Partners’
pot. Did they sell their share? If so, who bought it?
We have a right to be in the loop, because it is our taxes, our businesses
and our homes on the line.
If we're entering a new phase with Madison Marquette let’s be sure we're on
equal footing. We can't be if only some parties know the details. Otherwise
the plans sound wonderful.

Maureen Nevin
Asbury Radio -The Radio Voice of Asbury Park -Silenced by the FCC, but
why??
88.1FM - 6 Years on the Air!! Would've been 7 this July...
Asbury's Own Live Talk Show_mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/post?postID=rHJIZqKLU40eDTc2KMHNHZwPoANfvykUf-QXIwGa01YupXx_FS
gz9T8CYowEoqrp7AvGNPp3ZyP4oWOTuAg)
601 Bangs Avenue - Forced from here by FCC...
Listen 8 - 10 PM Thursdays on 88.1FM or Ooops, see below...
Listen Live or

[AsburyPark] Re: The plan needs

2008-01-15 Thread dfsavgny

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I forgot to mention the Wonder Bar and my glee to see that it's
coming back  
 in my 2 cents posted on Asbury Radio. Like to get your feedback.
This is  
 basically what I posted:
 We don't see any  clunkers among the names we recognized, but are
saddened 
 not to see  Eddie Gaspar's restaurant in the First Avenue  Pavilion
 (formerly 
 The Tides) missing from the press release and news  report. Maybe we
missed it. 

That is where Taka plans to go.

 We're talking about,  in addition to the per unit development rights
of about 
 $100k per, the  7% piece on the sale of every unit, and $20,000 per
unit for 
 the  infrastructure improvement reimbursement, and the Partnersâ
retention of 
 all  commercial rights on the sites.

It is 5% and I think $17,500 per unit for Wesley Grove. It was 7% and
$20K for the Esperanza (inflation).

 If we're entering a  new phase with Madison Marquette letâs be
sure we're on 
 equal  footing. We can't be if only some parties know the details.
Otherwise 
 the plans  sound wonderful. 

Well that really sums it up doesn't it? If MM wants to go ahead with
these promises, more power to them. Everyone should just be aware that
as of this date, the deal between Partners and MM is not final. At
least that is the most up to date information.

And there is NO GUARANTEE between MM and the City. We all hope they do
not, but their tent could be folded up tomorrow. That being the case,
what trumpets should be blowing from City Hall? Why should the City
get so excited when it has been let down time and time again, albeit,
by its own shortsightedness and naivete, or more plainly, misplaced
trust in counsel and advisors.

We should welcome MM's plans but at the same time demand some
recourse. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice .







 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Plan, Misrepresentations - Lies?

2006-10-18 Thread Fred

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 

Let it go Werner. It is what it is and you and nobodyelse can change 
it. So move on.




To paraphrase: 'If you tell a lie long enough, people will begin to 
beleive it.'
 
 That Duany was the primary source of creating our Redevelopment 
Plan is still being cited 
 as a good reason to accept it without question. A good tactic from 
a public relations view, 
 but far from the truth.
 
 One needs to look at the factual history of the evolution of the 
current Plan to determine 
 what hapened. First the biggest lie needs to dispelled.  The lie 
that the Plan was held up in 
 bankruptcy court as a asset of Carabetta and subject to the powers 
of the Court.
 
 It was the Redevloper Agreement between the City and Carabetta that 
was held as an asset 
 in the bankruptcy. That agreement was the contract that obligated 
implimentation of the 
 adopted land use and zoning in place at the time.
 
 A Redevopment Plan is the publicly adopted set of criteria that 
sets forth land uses such as 
 residentail, commercial, entertainment, etc. The Plan is owned by 
the public and can not 
 and was not held as an asset of Carabetta's.
 
 Redeveloper Agreement = Contract to perform = Held in Bankruptcy
 Redevelopment Plan = Land use and Zoning = The Local Law
 
 Whoever became the developer was obligated to build out what the 
law specified.
 
 So what happened? The City settled the litigation with Carabetta 
and agreed to transfer his 
 rights (the contract) to Asbury Partners. That contract obligated 
them to impliment the 
 existing Plan because that is what was adopted and had the force of 
law at that time.
 
 Instead the City entered into a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) 
which was treated as 
 a contract modification to settle the litigation. The MOU set forth 
development criteria and 
 land uses that were in violation of the existing adopted, legal 
land uses. The MOU was, 
 from that point on, treated as the New Plan upon which all 
subsequent Plans were built.
 
 This is where the major error was made. A City can not devise 
redevelopment plans by 
 contract, it violates the public process established by the 
Municipal Land Use Law. 
 Changing land use and zoning to satisfy a prearranged contract is 
illegal.
 
 That is how Asbury Park went from a mixed use resort, 
entertainment, residential Plan 
 (v1991) that was the Law at the time, to a primarily residential 
Plan. The Real Plan-1991 
 was ignored. The MOU (Settlement Agreement) was taken as the New 
Plan and off 
 everyone went to build a new Asbury Park.
 
 When the New Plan was publicized many residents and stake holders 
voiced their concerns 
 about the New Asbury Park. Condos are nice but what about the 
Palace, The Pony, 
 Entertainment, Historic Landmarks, Public Lands, the Architecture, 
etc etc ?
 
 Enter Duany - The City hires Duany to iron out all the details, 
mediate, and create design 
 standards. His quote diring the public presentation - 'this is 
planning by contract' -- 
 OUCH !!!
 
 In the end, land uses did not change, they still reflect the MOU, 
Condos everywhere. We 
 got narrower streets, smaller sidewalks, lost the Palace, lost the 
entire public oceanfront, 
 better architecture at least
 
 I attribute most of the mis-steps to a City Council unwilling to 
take input from 
 knowledgaable people who had the Public's interests in mind. Also, 
there was no City 
 Planner on staff throughout this entire period.
 
 Werner
 
 PS - for a typical developer Condos are an easy to build cash cow 
(in a good market). Real 
 Redevelpment - Community based, Heritage based, Economics based - 
takes a much 
 higher skill level and commitment that in the end would be better 
for the City.
 
 
 

 From Tommy:
 
 As to why the plan has 3000 condos, he is jumping to conclusions
 that just the developer wanted that. From Sea Bright to Long Branch
 to Belmar, all of Monmouth County's previous tourist towns went to
 year-round residential rather than seasonal tourism, because
 Monmouth County has changed






 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Plan, Misrepresentations - Lies?

2006-10-18 Thread wernerapnj

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj wernerapnj@ 
 wrote:
 
  
 
 Let it go Werner. It is what it is and you and nobodyelse can change 
 it. So move on.


That's all fine, well and good.

But the truth, facts and history are what they are.

Werner





 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Plan, Misrepresentations - Lies?

2006-10-18 Thread Fred

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred asburydogma@ wrote:
 
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj wernerapnj@ 
  wrote:
  
   
  
  


In your mind.



Let it go Werner. It is what it is and you and nobodyelse can change 
  it. So move on.
 
 
 That's all fine, well and good.
 
 But the truth, facts and history are what they are.
 
 Werner






 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Plan

2006-10-15 Thread wernerapnj

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I'm talking about Duany.
 

Fred, Duany  did not author our Redvelopment Plan, he only added 
design criteria. You are believing one of the many misrepresentations 
that plague the entire process.

Our plan was crafted by Clark,Caton,Hintz the firm hired by Asbury 
Partners. Also, they had little to do with its major elements since a 
Memorendum of Understanding was used as the starting point. The MOU 
came out of the bankruptcy settlement with Carabetta at which there 
was no PLANNING. In fact the City did not even have a Planner on its 
payroll at the time.

This is why the Plan is developer driven, consists of 3000+ condos, 
has destroyed historic assets, and has little relationship to the 
rest of Asbury Park. It is the child of a bankruptcy settlement that 
violated the real Plan (adopted 1991) legally in place at the time.

In addition, to compare a Redevelopment Plan of another community to 
Asbury Park is meaningless since every community is unique. For 
example, the WPB situation you refer to is a traditionanal downtown 
not a destination oceanfront such as Asbury Park.

Werner 





 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Plan

2006-10-15 Thread justifiedright

Fred,

The actual status of Duany, contrary to what Werner says below, was 
to be The City's consultant during their negotiations with Asbury 
Partners as to what would be in the redevelopment plan.

Duany met with anyone in the City who wanted to be heard about what 
should be in the Plan, right down to the Fishing Club and the 
Surfers.

Duany and the City negotiatied with Asbury Partners, and what they 
agreed upon was drafted into a formal document by Clark Caton. 

Accordingly, both sides drafted the Plan together (which is why it 
is called a public-private agreement) and the Plan has in it 
elements that the people of Asbury Park wanted, under the advice of 
the expert Duany, who as you rightly point out has done wonderful 
work and is respected in his field.

As to the MOU violating the prior plan, Werner has been wrong 
about this for quite awhile now and won't let it go.  Once the 
matter was in the Bankruptcy Court, the asset that was Asbury's 
Redevelopment no longer belonged to the City or the Developer.  It 
became the property of the Trustee, to sell or dispose of as he saw 
fit.

The Trustee was allowed by law to make that MOU and it was approved 
by the Court.  It violated absolutely nothing.  That is why in all 
the lawsuits that have been filed over this redevelopment, not one 
lawyer has made any serious attempt to press that issue.

It has been one of Werner's main talking points so he won't let go 
of it because he thinks being wrong will hurt his credibility.  He's 
wrong about that, because anyone can have a conclusion that later 
turns out to be wrong on complex legal issues, me included.  He 
would have more credibility if he admitted he was wrong about it and 
moved on with the correct information. That's what I do when I find 
I've been wrong, but I can't force Werner's hand here.

As to why the plan has 3000 condos, he is jumping to conclusions 
that just the developer wanted that.  From Sea Bright to Long Branch 
to Belmar, all of Monmouth County's previous tourist towns went to 
year-round residential rather than seasonal tourism, because 
Monmouth County has changed.  Not that many on this board will care, 
but I wrote columns calling for Asbury to go year-round residential 
long before there even was an Asbury Partners.  The last election 
was another inidcator of whether the people of AP like the plan, but 
many on this board will deny that city-wide poll, mostly by 
underestimating the citzenry of Asbury Park.

 







--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred asburydogma@ wrote:
 
  I'm talking about Duany.
  
 
 Fred, Duany  did not author our Redvelopment Plan, he only added 
 design criteria. You are believing one of the many 
misrepresentations 
 that plague the entire process.
 
 Our plan was crafted by Clark,Caton,Hintz the firm hired by Asbury 
 Partners. Also, they had little to do with its major elements 
since a 
 Memorendum of Understanding was used as the starting point. The 
MOU 
 came out of the bankruptcy settlement with Carabetta at which 
there 
 was no PLANNING. In fact the City did not even have a Planner on 
its 
 payroll at the time.
 
 This is why the Plan is developer driven, consists of 3000+ 
condos, 
 has destroyed historic assets, and has little relationship to the 
 rest of Asbury Park. It is the child of a bankruptcy settlement 
that 
 violated the real Plan (adopted 1991) legally in place at the time.
 
 In addition, to compare a Redevelopment Plan of another community 
to 
 Asbury Park is meaningless since every community is unique. For 
 example, the WPB situation you refer to is a traditionanal 
downtown 
 not a destination oceanfront such as Asbury Park.
 
 Werner






 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Plan

2006-10-15 Thread dfsavgny

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Fred, Duany  did not author our Redvelopment Plan, he only added 
 design criteria. You are believing one of the many misrepresentations 
 that plague the entire process.

Didn't Duany  Co only have a couple of weeks torubber stamp theplan?






 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Plan

2006-10-14 Thread wernerapnj

Fred, I don't understand why you keep avoiding my queston.

WHO are you refering to ?

Werner

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  I'm just saying if his plan worked in WPB maybe his plan for Asbury 
 will work too. 
 
 
 Fred,  Who and What ar you reffering to ?
  
  The man ?  What man? The Plan ? Who's Plan ?
  
  What does WPB have to do with AP?
  
  Werner





 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Plan

2006-10-14 Thread Fred

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:


I'm talking about Duany.




 Fred, I don't understand why you keep avoiding my queston.
 
 WHO are you refering to ?
 
 Werner
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred asburydogma@ wrote:
 
   I'm just saying if his plan worked in WPB maybe his plan for 
Asbury 
  will work too. 
  
  
  Fred,  Who and What ar you reffering to ?
   
   The man ?  What man? The Plan ? Who's Plan ?
   
   What does WPB have to do with AP?
   
   Werner






 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Plan

2006-10-13 Thread Fred

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred asburydogma@ wrote:
 
 
I'm just saying give the plan a chance the man knows what he's doing.




... The person who designed the citys plan has done 
  many many plans. Go to City Place in WPB Florida they took a 
  depressed part of that town and made it into something special.
 ... 
  http://www.cityplace.com/AboutCityPlace.html
  
 
 Fred, what exactly are you implying here as it relates to Asbury Park?
 
 Werner






 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Plan

2006-10-13 Thread wernerapnj

Fred,  Who and What ar you reffering to ?

The man ?  What man? The Plan ? Who's Plan ?

What does WPB have to do with AP?

Werner

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj wernerapnj@ wrote:
 
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred asburydogma@ wrote:
  
  
 I'm just saying give the plan a chance the man knows what he's doing.
 
 
 
 
 ... The person who designed the citys plan has done 
   many many plans. Go to City Place in WPB Florida they took a 
   depressed part of that town and made it into something special.
  ... 
   http://www.cityplace.com/AboutCityPlace.html
   
  
  Fred, what exactly are you implying here as it relates to Asbury Park?
  
  Werner
 







 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Plan

2006-10-13 Thread Fred

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 I'm just saying if his plan worked in WPB maybe his plan for Asbury 
will work too.  





Fred,  Who and What ar you reffering to ?
 
 The man ?  What man? The Plan ? Who's Plan ?
 
 What does WPB have to do with AP?
 
 Werner
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred asburydogma@ wrote:
 
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj wernerapnj@ 
wrote:
  
   --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred asburydogma@ wrote:
   
   
  I'm just saying give the plan a chance the man knows what he's 
doing.
  
  
  
  
  ... The person who designed the citys plan has done 
many many plans. Go to City Place in WPB Florida they took a 
depressed part of that town and made it into something 
special.
   ... 
http://www.cityplace.com/AboutCityPlace.html

   
   Fred, what exactly are you implying here as it relates to 
Asbury Park?
   
   Werner
  
 






 
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[AsburyPark] Re: City Plan

2006-10-13 Thread dfsavgny

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj wernerapnj@ 
 wrote:
 
  I'm just saying if his plan worked in WPB maybe his plan for Asbury 
 will work too.  
 

Do you buy one size fits all shoes?





 
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[AsburyPark] Re: The Plan

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, charlie leonard [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  
 that makes it pretty easy to understand.

That's why I term them versions of the PLAN. Both the March 15 and 
June 5 versions have the earlier dates on them, so we are not 
confusing. What is confusing is how a version of THE PLAN that was 
on the city website, sold to hundreds and submitted to two or more 
agencies of the state for permits and grants is suddenly disavowed. 
Moreover, we are now being told that three years ago everyone was 
told that the June version coud not be the plan. While I am still 
searching for what is exactly the truth (and I assume that that will 
not be found until there are supeonas) what I do know is that if ALL 
that the city (through Aaron) says is true, we have a huge amount of 
incompetence, starting with the redevelopment attorney.

You simply cannot color it any other way. And Tom, as you said to me 
personally, all of this found at the exact moment someone (me) says 
that you may be able to get a few bucks to allow them to build C-8 
up again.

It is simply not clear WHAT the city's position is regarding the 
rebuilding of C-8 now that it has to be demolished even in light of 
(if) the March 15 version (with amendments) is the official plan. 
That is why I have sent a letter to Reidy and councilmembers that 
the city and the council individually go on the record with their 
position(s). I have also asked that Aaron go on the record in 
explaining this morass. I will also submit that and other requests 
on the record at tomorrow's council meeting. What I am trying to do 
is build a record for investigation. We'll get it clear once and for 
all with no wriggle room. As far as I am concerned those days are 
over in AP. If you think all I am doing is posting here and speaking 
at council meetings, you don't know me.







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[AsburyPark] Re: The Plan

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 There will be a public input 
 period.  Then the DEP will rule, and I'm predicting they rule in 
favor 
 of the 10 and 16 story C8 building.

I doubt there will be public hearings or input again. It will all be 
smoothed over without the public. But there will be a record. Everyone 
is responsible for their actions. No passes.








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[AsburyPark] Re: The Plan

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Since there is very little difference between the March and June 
 proposals, this will all be over quickly.
 
 The DEP will re-review the portions of the March proposal that are 
 different than the June proposal.  There will be a public input 
 period.  Then the DEP will rule, and I'm predicting they rule in 
favor 
 of the 10 and 16 story C8 building.
 
 That's really all there is to it.  Doesn't seem to amount to a 
hill of 
 beans in the long run.

Not the point and you know it. The point is assuming that the plan 
does not allow rebuilding if demolished, then an amendment would be 
needed. Something (whether tangible or intangible) could be received 
in return. But what did occur is that Aaron says that the June 
version, which is explicit, is not what was adopted and the one that 
was, March version, doesn't say that. Of course it also says that. 
Aaron is a cheerleader for the developer. You cannot admit that 
publically Tom, I understand that. I will not judge you for it as 
long as you do not defend what was done. But if you defned it, then 
I have to criticize you for knowing what side yur bread is buttered 
on.





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[AsburyPark] Re: The Plan

Since there is very little difference between the March and June 
proposals, this will all be over quickly.

The DEP will re-review the portions of the March proposal that are 
different than the June proposal.  There will be a public input 
period.  Then the DEP will rule, and I'm predicting they rule in favor 
of the 10 and 16 story C8 building.

That's really all there is to it.  Doesn't seem to amount to a hill of 
beans in the long run.






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[AsburyPark] Re: The Plan

I believe there has to be a public input period by law.  There never 
was any on the March proposal (at least on the terms that are different 
than the June proposal).

It may not necessarily be a public hearing with a microphone (although 
it may be) but there will certainly be a public input period, even if 
it is one whereby people are given the opportunity to write to the DEP.



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
 
  There will be a public input 
  period.  Then the DEP will rule, and I'm predicting they rule in 
 favor 
  of the 10 and 16 story C8 building.
 
 I doubt there will be public hearings or input again. It will all be 
 smoothed over without the public. But there will be a record. 
Everyone 
 is responsible for their actions. No passes.







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[AsburyPark] Re: The Plan

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I have to criticize you for knowing what side yur bread is buttered 
 on.


Puhlze! It isn't exactly a blockbuster appointment like Ansell 
or the Board of Ed attorney has.  It's comparatively small.

I didn't miss a meal before I was hired 2 years ago, and I won't miss a 
meal if I don't have it later.






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[AsburyPark] Re: The Plan

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I believe there has to be a public input period by law.  There 
never 
 was any on the March proposal (at least on the terms that are 
different 
 than the June proposal).

But there was public hearings and planning board review which were 
submitted to he city on April 26 and which ultimately led to the 
adoption. Unless you meant to say it the other way around 
(differences between June and March), but that would assume that DEP 
keeps the June and the city adopts it. No, I assume that that what 
the city contends is the plan will be substituted for what DEP has. 
Since the city contends that already went for review, none else may 
be needed. That is why I assume Aaron contends the June version 
could not be the plan.








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[AsburyPark] Re: The Plan - buttering bread

2005-11-01 Thread Skip Bernstein

Aaron is a cheerleader for the developer. You cannot admit that
publicly Tom, I understand that. I will not judge you for it as long
as you do not defend what was done. But if you defend it, then I have
to criticize you for knowing what side your bread is buttered on.

Hold on there Dan, judging the purported Tom is my territory and when
it comes to buttering bread both PT and Aaron are in danger of
drowning in the stuff.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Since there is very little difference between the March and June 
  proposals, this will all be over quickly.
  
  The DEP will re-review the portions of the March proposal that are 
  different than the June proposal.  There will be a public input 
  period.  Then the DEP will rule, and I'm predicting they rule in 
 favor 
  of the 10 and 16 story C8 building.
  
  That's really all there is to it.  Doesn't seem to amount to a 
 hill of 
  beans in the long run.
 
 Not the point and you know it. The point is assuming that the plan 
 does not allow rebuilding if demolished, then an amendment would be 
 needed. Something (whether tangible or intangible) could be received 
 in return. But what did occur is that Aaron says that the June 
 version, which is explicit, is not what was adopted and the one that 
 was, March version, doesn't say that. Of course it also says that. 
 Aaron is a cheerleader for the developer. You cannot admit that 
 publically Tom, I understand that. I will not judge you for it as 
 long as you do not defend what was done. But if you defned it, then 
 I have to criticize you for knowing what side yur bread is buttered 
 on.







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[AsburyPark] Re: The Plan

I'm not talking about planning board public hearing - we both agree 
that did happen.

I'm talking about DEP public hearing.  That will have to be re-done 
when they consider for the first time the March proposal (instead of 
the June proposal).

However, it will likely be limited to just the portion where the 2 
proposals differ.

Once the City re-submits (they probably already have) the DEP will 
announce the public input.  They will consider the matter and 
approve or disapprove.

If they approve, nothing really has changed.  That's why I assert 
this whole thing won't amount to a hill of beans, except for some 
lost time to build the Esperanza while we deal with this clerical 
error.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, bluebishop82 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I believe there has to be a public input period by law.  There 
 never 
  was any on the March proposal (at least on the terms that are 
 different 
  than the June proposal).
 
 But there was public hearings and planning board review which were 
 submitted to he city on April 26 and which ultimately led to the 
 adoption. Unless you meant to say it the other way around 
 (differences between June and March), but that would assume that 
DEP 
 keeps the June and the city adopts it. No, I assume that that what 
 the city contends is the plan will be substituted for what DEP 
has. 
 Since the city contends that already went for review, none else 
may 
 be needed. That is why I assume Aaron contends the June version 
 could not be the plan.







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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: The Plan

2005-11-01 Thread David J. Mieras

1984 plan doesn't seem to amount to a hill of beans in the long run? 22 
years, so what is your definition of the long run Tommy?
- Original Message - 
From: bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 1:14 PM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: The Plan

 Since there is very little difference between the March and June
 proposals, this will all be over quickly.

 The DEP will re-review the portions of the March proposal that are
 different than the June proposal.  There will be a public input
 period.  Then the DEP will rule, and I'm predicting they rule in favor
 of the 10 and 16 story C8 building.

 That's really all there is to it.  Doesn't seem to amount to a hill of
 beans in the long run.

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[AsburyPark] Re: The Plan