Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Forget 24/192 how about 24/384?
adamdea;656056 Wrote: Is the effect you refer to specific to downsampling high sample rate recordings. Yes, that is precisely the situation I'm referring to. If you want to deliver your final product at 44.1kHz, at some point you have to eliminate everything above 22.05 to avoid aliasing. Doesn't matter if you start by recording at a high sample rate to avoid the need for a brick-wall: as soon as you downsample you have to filter. -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89733 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
I have the same problem alec_cat;656117 Wrote: Hi guys, I just upgraded to 7.6.1 tonight and had to reinstall the toolbox. I've managed to get everything working EXCEPT ttbuffer. It reboots but always comes back as 20,000 now, which is the default value. I didn't do a factory reset in between, which might explain. Can anyone confirm their ttbuffer is sticking with 7.6.1? -- ekelund ekelund's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
alec_cat;656117 Wrote: Hi guys, I just upgraded to 7.6.1 tonight and had to reinstall the toolbox. I've managed to get everything working EXCEPT ttbuffer. It reboots but always comes back as 20,000 now, which is the default value. I didn't do a factory reset in between, which might explain. Can anyone confirm their ttbuffer is sticking with 7.6.1? Mine is fine, but I did do a factory reset before re-installing the toolbox. I have found that with all firmware updates I had to do the factory reset first to get the toolbox to work. -- PasTim Server on Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit, 2 CPU, 2GHz, 4GB, FLAC files. Touch on Ethernet (in another room). Analogue out over 'a bit of wire' to ageing Quad Hi-Fi. An old (wireless) laptop controls the server using Chrome. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
I made the same mistake. You have to do a factory reset before the re-install for everything to work. -- firedog GIK Acoustics Room Treatments. Tranquil PC fanless server running Vortexbox OS; SB Touch slaved to Empirical Audio Pace Car; MF X-DAC-V3, classDaudio SDS-470 amp; MF X-150 as pre-amp, Devore Gibbon Super 8 Speakers; Dual 506 + Ortofon 20 (occasional use); sometimes use PC with M-Audio 192 as digital source. SB Boom in second room. Arcam CD82 which I don't use anymore, even though it's a very good player. firedog's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11550 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Forget 24/192 how about 24/384?
cliveb;656138 Wrote: Yes, that is precisely the situation I'm referring to. If you want to deliver your final product at 44.1kHz, at some point you have to eliminate everything above 22.05 to avoid aliasing. Doesn't matter if you start by recording at a high sample rate to avoid the need for a brick-wall: as soon as you downsample you have to filter. I think we are in agreement- it's just the expression brick wall- I understadn this to mean a filter with effectively no transitional band ie one which provides infinite attentuation at the transition between the pass band and the stop band. In practice this may mean something with really steep attenuation at the transition. This is really difficult to do in analog but is trivial in the digital domain because all you have to do is to calculate the values that the samples would have had *if* a perfect analog filter existed. I suppose you could say that the combined effect of the digital filtering and the analog filter is brick wall, but the brick wall bit is done digitally. This leaves the analog filter only having to do the same job it would have done if the final output was going to be at the oversampled rate. I guess this comes back to your point that even a digital brick-wall filter has some (perceptible) phase effect. if that's right then I agree that there would be an advantage in having a final product with fs 44.1kHz (but 96kHz?) Wombat has answered that point, but i have to say that i have not yet quite got to grips with that bit. Certainly i am aware that recent hi-end products claim to have produced filters which solve a problem called pre-ringing. I am at the moment agnostic about whether this is a real solution to a real problem, but my suspicion is that it is yet another example of a solution for the imaginary shortcomings of digital -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89733 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Phil Leigh;652936 Wrote: This is not the reason why some people report a difference in some systems. The stream is always processed accurately to the spdif output... The processor is just a computer and oddly it behaves exactly like any other computer... Given a constant input and constant program [both true in this case] it will produce constant output. It can't do this better or worse... What can happen is that power supply noise can be modulated by the circuitry onto the ground plane and this can vary with processor load. Some dacs are more sensitive to this noise than others... On this particular subject, am I right in thinking that this effect would be irrelevant with a toslink connector, there being no electrical connection? I seem to remember that the received wisdom is supposed to be that toslink connection are supposed to sound worse than coax. Can anyone remind me why? perhaps I had better start a separate thread on that -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
Fibre optic cables are able to transmit data at huge bandwidths without (as far as I am aware) huge issues, Yet there appears to be an audiophile consensus that coax sounds better than toslink. Can anyone explain why this might be. Therre is a tremendous amount of interest on this forum for software and firmware mods which are intended to improve the sound from a dac connected to a Touch. It is difficult to see what effect these mods can have other than through the transmission of electrical noise which would presumably not be passed via toslink. So why is it that toslink is supposed to sound worse than coax. The only explanations i can find are 1) the signal sent by toslink leads to data errors in the receiver (ie the receiver cannot accurately read the bits) or contains a large amount of interface jitter which the dac is unable to remove. Is this something inherent in the toslink medium or is it the fault of bad transmitters? 2) the operation of the optical/electrical conversion in the dac asversely affects the dac or analogue stages somehow -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Forget 24/192 how about 24/384?
An interesting data point is that Bob Stuart of meridian who's company basically was behind the now dead DVDA MHR format (now resurrected as dolby true HD with some modifications ) . Does not design products that works with fs greater than 96k , because it is not needed, some DVDA/CD player in the 800 series migth offer 192k dac to it's analog outputs. But all processors and DSP speakers works with internal signals of 88.2 or 96 kHz 44.1 and 48 k gets upconverted for the DSP engine and 176.4 and 192 downconverted . The DAC's that finally converts to analog might do other things internally in the dac chip as usual, I have not investigated that . I think it tells me something when the people that believed* something better than CD was needed and developed DVDA stopped at 24/96 being good enough for all conceivable purposes and don't play the numbers game further,on the original topic of 384kHz. *Believed not really, it was some research done, I'm not a good enough engineer to tell if they where right or wrong. But it was not simply some audiophile voodo conviction. But research and science is an ongoing process where facts gets adjusted when new evidence surface. I give them the benefit of doubt here, it is not easy to tell as almost no recordings are good enough to tell the difference even if it exists This is in contrast to the religious analogue beliefs the audiophiles sometimes suffer from where the facts are known beforehand and no research or evidence can move them (see the blind test debate ;) ). Nowadays I've try to be *format agnostic* and get good recordings whatever format they come in. I would even consider buying one of those 352 recordings if I find interesting music with good SQ just as I get downloads or CD's. The recording itself has such overwhelming influence on SQ that the delivery format to customer hardly matters within reasonable limits as better than cassette or lowrate mp3 :) imho. Bad recordings sound bad because they are bad not because they are delivered on CD, don't you think. Now does 2L have any hirez downloads or are you limited to some kind of discs ? I would prefer not to go with HDcrap if possible (they do sell 2L too) -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD SqueezePad Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89733 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter wont stream
I got on the phone with Logitech and after talking about everything we've talked about and re-doing some resets they concluded that the transporter's 9000 port is not working and therefore cannot stream music. I debated returning it to Amazon and re-purchasing it but decided to send it to Logietch for an exchange. I took a picture of the receipt, attached it to the email and sent it to them. I am now awaiting an email with a return package label to be printed out and attached to the box. I thought you might be interested what the final conclusion of this mess is lol. Thanks Again! Art -- artintampa artintampa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=49578 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90180 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter wont stream
artintampa;656176 Wrote: I got on the phone with Logitech and after talking about everything we've talked about and re-doing some resets they concluded that the transporter's 9000 port is not working and therefore cannot stream music. I debated returning it to Amazon and re-purchasing it but decided to send it to Logietch for an exchange. I took a picture of the receipt, attached it to the email and sent it to them. I am now awaiting an email with a return package label to be printed out and attached to the box. I thought you might be interested what the final conclusion of this mess is lol. Thanks Again! Art Thanks for letting us know. And yes, if port 9000 is not working, then it won't work! First I've heard of that issue, but things happen. Logitech will be good about turning it around fast. Let us know when you get the new one and get it working! -- garym System 1: Vortexbox Appliance (1.5) SbS 7.5.4 Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) System 2: Win7(64) laptop SbS 7.6.1 Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio and laptop) Retired: SB3, Duet Receiver Controlled at both locations with: iPhone (iPeng), iPad (iPengHD SqueezePad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.6 on Win7(64) laptop Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Additional Tagging - mp3tag garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90180 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Forget 24/192 how about 24/384?
They do have DL 193sek for 96k and 229sek for 192k 18% more expensive for 192k might reflect server load for DL . I migth spring for a 96k flac download to sample something . These higher rates 192 seems elusive to get is there only tests aviable ? This seems to answer the original Q is there any music on this format ? -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD SqueezePad Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89733 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
adamdea;656160 Wrote: On this particular subject, am I right in thinking that this effect would be irrelevant with a toslink connector, there being no electrical connection? I seem to remember that the received wisdom is supposed to be that toslink connection are supposed to sound worse than coax. Can anyone remind me why? perhaps I had better start a separate thread on that Indeed... Given the large number of optical connections used in pro studios... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Phil Leigh;656192 Wrote: Indeed... Given the large number of optical connections used in pro studios... By the 's the answer is presumably 1% or 99%, but which? -- PasTim Server on Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit, 2 CPU, 2GHz, 4GB, FLAC files. Touch on Ethernet (in another room). Analogue out over 'a bit of wire' to ageing Quad Hi-Fi. An old (wireless) laptop controls the server using Chrome. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
adamdea;656162 Wrote: Fibre optic cables are able to transmit data at huge bandwidths without (as far as I am aware) huge issues, Yet there appears to be an audiophile consensus that coax sounds better than toslink. Can anyone explain why this might be. Therre is a tremendous amount of interest on this forum for software and firmware mods which are intended to improve the sound from a dac connected to a Touch. It is difficult to see what effect these mods can have other than through the transmission of electrical noise which would presumably not be passed via toslink. So why is it that toslink is supposed to sound worse than coax. The only possible explanations i can find are 1) the signal sent by toslink leads to data errors in the receiver (ie the receiver cannot accurately read the bits) or contains a large amount of interface jitter which the dac is unable to remove. Is this something inherent in the toslink medium or is it the fault of bad transmitters? 2) the operation of the optical/electrical conversion in the dac adversely affects the dac or analogue stages somehow Yes... My friend who owns a fibre company that supplies broadcasters finds this all hilarious... As do his customers... modern TOSLINK cables and connectors do not add interface jitter and can operate at high bandwiths. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
PasTim;656196 Wrote: By the 's the answer is presumably 1% or 99%, but which? Hard to have ground plane effects when there is no ground plane... :-) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Phil Leigh;656198 Wrote: Hard to have ground plane effects when there is no ground plane... :-) I seem to fail to ask the right questions. I thought it was clear, but it seems not so. Whilst it's clear there is no electrical connection with toslink, what do pro studios actually use? -- PasTim Server on Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit, 2 CPU, 2GHz, 4GB, FLAC files. Touch on Ethernet (in another room). Analogue out over 'a bit of wire' to ageing Quad Hi-Fi. An old (wireless) laptop controls the server using Chrome. PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
adamdea;656162 Wrote: Fibre optic cables are able to transmit data at huge bandwidths without (as far as I am aware) huge issues, Yet there appears to be an audiophile consensus that coax sounds better than toslink. Can anyone explain why this might be. Therre is a tremendous amount of interest on this forum for software and firmware mods which are intended to improve the sound from a dac connected to a Touch. It is difficult to see what effect these mods can have other than through the transmission of electrical noise which would presumably not be passed via toslink. So why is it that toslink is supposed to sound worse than coax. The only possible explanations i can find are 1) the signal sent by toslink leads to data errors in the receiver (ie the receiver cannot accurately read the bits) or contains a large amount of interface jitter which the dac is unable to remove. Is this something inherent in the toslink medium or is it the fault of bad transmitters? 2) the operation of the optical/electrical conversion in the dac adversely affects the dac or analogue stages somehow The anecdotal speil around this has always been that the not so expensive opto transmitter and recievers used in toslink are not so fast , hence lower bandwith than the electrical interface and , so transition 1 0 migth not be as fast as an electrical interface. But that was 20 years ago, but these facts seems to stick in audiophile comunity . I have no example at hand, but did not the hifi rags measure jitter at the opto interface and found it worse on toslink in some cases ? And then it became the official truth for all toslink interfaces. On the other hand . This migth not be true anymore with modern toslink components, after all the bandwith for spdif is not really high and demanding. If it's still the case modern DAC's seems to twart this very effectively. So that the electrical isolation gives you more benefits than problems . I would not automatically dissmis the toslink as inferior anymore, i would try . the practical implementation might vary by each use case. It could be that toslink is the best for you and electrical is best for me ? given our different equipment. Or most likely none of could hear any difference at all in practical reality even if there is a measurable difference. -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD SqueezePad Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
I find the whole interface jitter thing a bit puzzling unless it means that the receiver can't decode the bits in the signal. I really struggle to understand how the remaining problem of matching the long-term clock drift could defeat the ingenuity of an electrical engineer. That's the only thing standing in the way of reclocking using a source which is entirely independent of the transport clock and the S/PDIF signal. So now bits are read, data reclocked using decent oscillator, where's the problem? -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical (toslink) connection
adamdea;656213 Wrote: *where's the problem?* probably somewhere between the ears ;) -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD SqueezePad Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90211 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] S-Booster
Hello guys. Please be kind to each others opinions..:) As an engineer, I tune everything I own..:) Well I build my own linear PSU, based actually in a battery charger, using only linear technology, charging 2 LiIon Cells. From there, an other PSU is regulating the power down to the 5v the Touch needs. I have no commercional interest in those things, it is just a hobby. The touch is connected to a heavily modified benchmark DAC 1 and from there a hand made danish Pre (holfi Pre NB1) using taralabs the one cables-. My touch is also modified internally, using shielding on all components. Well back to the question. There is a huge difference in the sound quality. If you can hear the difference between the standard PSU and a good linear PSU, you have to find what is wrong with your other equimpent. kind regards Panos -- panosm panosm's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=49627 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81454 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] S-Booster
panosm;656246 Wrote: Well back to the question. There is a huge difference in the sound quality. If you can hear the difference between the standard PSU and a good linear PSU, you have to find what is wrong with your other equimpent. kind regards Panos do you mean if you CAN'T hear the difference -- garym System 1: Vortexbox Appliance (1.5) SbS 7.5.4 Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) System 2: Win7(64) laptop SbS 7.6.1 Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio and laptop) Retired: SB3, Duet Receiver Controlled at both locations with: iPhone (iPeng), iPad (iPengHD SqueezePad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.6 on Win7(64) laptop Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Additional Tagging - mp3tag garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81454 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Forget 24/192 how about 24/384?
agillis;651237 Wrote: I though all you guys would get a kick out of this. We have been testing VortexBox player running on a Sonore VortexBox with 24/384 music using a MSB Signature DAC, which supports 24/384 via USB. It seems to be working well. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/First-Report-Sonore-Server-24384-Playback We have been using the direct interface to VortexBox Player not using it in SqueezeBox emulation mode. I have already modified the SqueezeBox Server that comes with VortexBox to support 24/192. I guess I could also get it to support 24/384. Not sure if anybody is really interested in this though. How much music is really available in 24/384? Okay so we now have a rapidly growing thread (35 posts and counting) all based on post which links to a one of the worst audiophile sites on the internet. The Computer Audiophile is all about sucking up the manufacturers and then hopefully getting some free equipment or perhaps a free trip to some audio show. Try reading through some of the nonsense and misinformation posted on that site and you'll see what I mean. First and foremost of the Computer Audiophile's sins is a rabid fascination with all things Apple. The Apple/iTunes audio platform is seriously flawed with respect to the playback of high quality audio and yet the Computer Audiophile along with all the high end magazines will never say that the emperor has no clothes. There are many, many other sins but just this one is enough ensure that the Computer Audiophile can be safely ignored. That said this is still a very interesting discussion but I fear that all the useful information posted is falling upon the ears of the converted and is not being heard by the vast majority of audiophiles stuck in the land of myths. So how do we get this information into their hands? And finally why stop at 24/384? How about 96bit/6144Khz? Yes, onward and upward to perfect resolution!!! -- ralphpnj Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels - Snatch - The Transporter - Transporter 2 (oops) - Touch 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89733 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Forget 24/192 how about 24/384?
ralphpnj;656250 Wrote: And finally why stop at 24/384? How about 96bit/6144Khz? Yes, onward and upward to perfect resolution!!! Fs=1/Tp call it Fp Tp= planck time http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_time ;) now where done in the time domain this is the shortest unit of time that is meaninfull to physics. wonder what the spl of perfectly still cold air still in it's gas phase is ? ( the air molecules moves around, this can no be silent ) -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD SqueezePad Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89733 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Forget 24/192 how about 24/384?
adamdea;656159 Wrote: I think we are in agreement- it's just the expression brick wall- I understadn this to mean a filter with effectively no transitional band ie one which provides infinite attentuation at the transition between the pass band and the stop band. Sorry, I didn't intend the term brick-wall to mean a filter of infinite slope, but rather a very high-order filter that attenuates rapidly. adamdea;656159 Wrote: In practice this may mean something with really steep attenuation at the transition. This is really difficult to do in analog but is trivial in the digital domain because all you have to do is to calculate the values that the samples would have had *if* a perfect analog filter existed. Quite so. BUT... the effect of a digital filter on the signal is the same as that of a perfect analogue filter of the same order. Of course there is no such thing as a perfect analogue filter - component tolerances and such like ensure that - so a digital filter will certainly be better than the equivalent analogue one. But digital filters still create artefacts in the passband; they are not magic. adamdea;656159 Wrote: I guess this comes back to your point that even a digital brick-wall filter has some (perceptible) phase effect. Actually my point is that while a digital brick-wall filter *does* have some (measurable) phase effect, it's probably not *perceptible*. adamdea;656159 Wrote: if that's right then I agree that there would be an advantage in having a final product with fs 44.1kHz (but 96kHz?) I remain sceptical that 44.1/48kHz is necessary. As for those who insist they need 96kHz - they are clearly ready to be taken away in jackets with very long sleeves. -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89733 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Forget 24/192 how about 24/384?
Mnyb;656264 Wrote: Fs=1/Tp call it Fp Tp= planck time http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_time ;) now where done in the time domain this is the shortest unit of time that is meaninfull to physics. wonder what the spl of perfectly still cold air still in it's gas phase is ? ( the air molecules moves around, this can no be silent ) So if I understand this correctly the sampling frequency would be something like 10 to the 43rd power times per second. At that speed even Harry Pearson (of TAS) might be happy, but I doubt it. On the other hand iTunes will never support this extreme sampling rate so the whole idea is dead in the water. -- ralphpnj Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels - Snatch - The Transporter - Transporter 2 (oops) - Touch 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89733 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
PasTim;656202 Wrote: I seem to fail to ask the right questions. I thought it was clear, but it seems not so. Whilst it's clear there is no electrical connection with toslink, what do pro studios actually use? A mixture... All sorts... S/pdif, TOSLINK, adat light pipe, aes/ebu etc... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] S-Booster
panosm;656246 Wrote: Hello guys. Please be kind to each others opinions..:) As an engineer, I tune everything I own..:) Well I build my own linear PSU, based actually in a battery charger, using only linear technology, charging 2 LiIon Cells. From there, an other PSU is regulating the power down to the 5v the Touch needs. I have no commercional interest in those things, it is just a hobby. The touch is connected to a heavily modified benchmark DAC 1 and from there a hand made danish Pre (holfi Pre NB1) using taralabs the one cables-. My touch is also modified internally, using shielding on all components. Well back to the question. There is a huge difference in the sound quality. If you can hear the difference between the standard PSU and a good linear PSU, you have to find what is wrong with your other equimpent. kind regards Panos This is your opinion... To which you are entitled... However, It is not a fact. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81454 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] New Squeezebox Touch Mod
bentrix;652658 Wrote: In the SB_priority file you have to wait for SqueezePlay to start the jive_alsa process. The sleep xx does this fine but a better way to do it - especially if you should ever want to run SB_priority manually - is to use a while loop. Insert these lines at the top of the SB_priority file: # Wait for the SqueezePlay process to start the jive_alsa process: jalsa=`ps -C jive_alsa -o pid=` while [ $? != 0 ] do # The jive_alsa process has not yet been started: sleep 1 jalsa=`ps -C jive_alsa -o pid=` done (The $? variable returns the exit code of the last executed command). This works very nicely for me. bentrix I would suggest Code: while ! pidof jive_alsa do sleep 1 done -- Pilru Pilru's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40204 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89359 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] official Dynamic Range Foobar plugin
Most of you are probably aware of the loudness wars and of http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/, but there's also a plugin for foobar that calculates the official DR value. The current beta can write it into 2 metadata fields for track DR and Album DR, and by default writes a log file in the album folder. Download here: http://www.jokhan.demon.nl/DynamicRange/index.htm -- bakker_be http://www.last.fm/user/Bakker_be Main System: Touch; Marantz SR-5004; ' TMA Premium 905' (http://tmaaudio.com/premium905.html); BK Monolith+ FF; HDI Dune Smart D1; Pioneer PDP-LX5090H iPad 32GB Wifi + Squeezepad (local playback activated) bakker_be's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30369 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90229 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Forget 24/192 how about 24/384?
Mnyb;656264 Wrote: Fs=1/Tp call it Fp Tp= planck time http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_time ;) now where done in the time domain this is the shortest unit of time that is meaninfull to physics. wonder what the spl of perfectly still cold air still in it's gas phase is ? ( the air molecules moves around, this can no be silent ) Hmm I bet this would sound really good. The problem is 96 bit samples at 1Tp intervals for 1 second would create enough data to fill up 10^30 1TB hard drives. Don't think we will be storing music at that resolution any time soon. That's a lot of hard drives for 1 second of music! -- agillis rip, tag, get cover artÂ… All you do is insert the CD! http://vortexbox.org agillis Lead Developer VortexBox agillis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21140 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89733 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Forget 24/192 how about 24/384?
agillis;656314 Wrote: Hmm I bet this would sound really good. The problem is 96 bit samples at 1Tp intervals for 1 second would create enough data to fill up 10^30 1TB hard drives. Don't think we will be storing music at that resolution any time soon. That's a lot of hard drives for 1 second of music! i don't even want to think about the energy consumption for computing this amount of data :P -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD SqueezePad Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89733 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Forget 24/192 how about 24/384?
agillis;656314 Wrote: Hmm I bet this would sound really good. The problem is 96 bit samples at 1Tp intervals for 1 second would create enough data to fill up 10^30 1TB hard drives. Don't think we will be storing music at that resolution any time soon. That's a lot of hard drives for 1 second of music! But who knows maybe at that resolution even the standard audiophile dreck might sound good. HP's super disc list might actually become worthwhile, Nah, nothing can save that garbage! -- ralphpnj Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels - Snatch - The Transporter - Transporter 2 (oops) - Touch 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89733 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Forget 24/192 how about 24/384?
Mind you it might nearly sound as good as vinyl. I remember Michael Fremer claiming that only 32/384 would match vinyl. Can't remember what his argument was but completely baffling. -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89733 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] S-Booster
Phil Leigh;656293 Wrote: This is your opinion... To which you are entitled... However, It is not a fact. Perhaps if you mod a benchmark dac til it doesn't work properly. -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81454 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Forget 24/192 how about 24/384?
adamdea;656327 Wrote: Mind you it might nearly sound as good as vinyl. I remember Michael Fremer claiming that only 32/384 would match vinyl. Can't remember what his argument was but completely baffling. Wait a second, are you implying that at 32/384 begins to skip? Do these hi-rez recordings also have crackles, pops and audible surface noise? And last but not least does the dynamic range also decrease as the resolution goes up? Maybe than digital will be the equal of vinyl. -- ralphpnj Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels - Snatch - The Transporter - Transporter 2 (oops) - Touch 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89733 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Forget 24/192 how about 24/384?
ralphpnj;656332 Wrote: Wait a second, are you implying that at 32/384 begins to skip? Do these hi-rez recordings also have crackles, pops and audible surface noise? And last but not least does the dynamic range also decrease as the resolution goes up? Maybe than digital will be the equal of vinyl. I did make a posting some time ago trying to persuade someone to do a vinyl plugin. I believe this has been done for winamp. Ideally the distorion should increase as you get to the end of the side... -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89733 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] official Dynamic Range Foobar plugin
bakker_be;656310 Wrote: Most of you are probably aware of the loudness wars and of http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/, but there's also a plugin for foobar that calculates the official DR value. The current beta can write it into 2 metadata fields for track DR and Album DR, and by default writes a log file in the album folder. Download here: http://www.jokhan.demon.nl/DynamicRange/index.htm You will be needing this as the 1.0 version has expired.. P -- pski real stereo doesn't just wake the neighbors, it -enrages- them.. It is truly the Golden Age of Wireless pski's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90229 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] official Dynamic Range Foobar plugin
I realise this is a foobar plugin, but it strikes me there is no DR analysis software freely available for Linux and that PMF want payment for use of the software excl. your fb2k plugin. Surely widespread adoption and awareness amongst the consumer population would do a lot more to add pressure to record co execs to pull their heads out of their asses and stop insisting on everything being butchered? Hell, having and publishing a decent DR value on an album sleeve could actually become a selling point. I can't help but think that free DR analysis software available for Lin, Win Mac would yield a much better outcome for all, and could easily aid in building a substantial DR database. -- audiomuze *'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger' (http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html): 'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* audiomuze's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33613 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90229 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] official Dynamic Range Foobar plugin
audiomuze;656348 Wrote: I realise this is a foobar plugin, but it strikes me there is no DR analysis software freely available for Linux and that PMF want payment for use of the software excl. your fb2k plugin. Surely widespread adoption and awareness amongst the consumer population would do a lot more to add pressure to record co execs to pull their heads out of their asses and stop insisting on everything being butchered? Hell, having and publishing a decent DR value on an album sleeve could actually become a selling point. I can't help but think that free DR analysis software available for Lin, Win Mac would yield a much better outcome for all, and could easily aid in building a substantial DR database. + gazillion Mostly I use the plugin to point out quality may not be equivalent to preference. -- pski real stereo doesn't just wake the neighbors, it -enrages- them.. It is truly the Golden Age of Wireless pski's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=90229 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
