Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
ralphpnj wrote: The Audiostream blog offers this little pre takedown of the Ars Technica Ethernet cable test: http://www.audiostream.com/content/trouble-audio-tests#5WUtFUSgOOb0s7uL.97 A few comments: First if I remember correctly did not Archimago state that he has been banned from posting comments on the Audiostream site and if so, then I strongly suggest that Archimago contact Mr. Lavorgna and demand that this post quoting him by taken down at once. Second I love the way Lavorgna goes from using individual preferences being used as proof of questionable audible differences to individual preferences being, well, just individual preferences. The complete dismissal of statistical methods in favor of purely anecdotal evidence is remarkable. Dr. Oz would be proud. IMO it is more profitable to publicize Lavorgna's obvious intellectual deceit by banning someone from posting on his forum, and then using that forum to libel that person. There appears to be quite a bit of evidence that the same mental failing that allows people to be mislead by this pseudo scientific crap also allows them to behave like thugs without noticing it. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
DJanGo wrote: did you (or some others) think that you can change someomes will to buy a audiophile usb cable if he wants it cause he believes of it and he is president in the more money than brain club? Probably not. But we can perhaps help the ones who have a brain to make more informed decisions. How long you think a (theoretical) open source software would live when there is only one maintainer? Can we do /change something in this case or in the other (stated above)? It depends on your definition of live and maintain. My (linux-based) car stereo runs software that was last updated maybe 8 years ago, and still works just fine. I know of open source software in production use where the original author/maintainer hasn't updated it in almost 20 years... To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
:) is your car audio system connected to the internet? is there any connection to something like itunes or radiostream? how many not believers are using their lms System to use it over the internet (at least each two weeks there is question about how to) and no one is using a vpn setup... How many pages in the wiki should be read and changed? Is this here a audiophile club where everyone reads or is this the ex slimdevices forum where some guys already left to eg. sonos and others? Gruss Jan DJanGo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1516 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
lol did you (or some others) think that you can change someomes will to buy a audiophile usb cable if he wants it cause he believes of it and he is president in the more money than brain club? Next is audiophile ethernet and whats next audiophile optics cable? You cant stop such idiots not the seller nor the buyer/believer. I really like to se some of you guys posting other stuff also. And a WFT question back to you: How long you think a (theoretical) open source software would live when there is only one maintainer? Can we do /change something in this case or in the other (stated above)? Gruss Jan DJanGo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1516 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
DJanGo wrote: Next is audiophile ethernet and whats next audiophile optics cable? Old news, already here. $558 toslink cable. http://www.rakuten.com/prod/audioquest-diamond-optilink-1-5m-4-92-ft-optical-audio-cable/228281197.html? $500 Cat6 cable http://www.wired.com/2008/06/snake-oil-alert/ toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
DJanGo wrote: is your car audio system connected to the internet? No - and fortunately the cars are old enough not to be easy hacking vectors either :) is there any connection to something like itunes or radiostream? No - all the music is coming from a local hard disk, so I am OK running something really old (I think it has a 2.2 linux kernel). how many not believers are using their lms System to use it over the internet (at least each two weeks there is question about how to) and no one is using a vpn setup... My LMS system is on a separate, firewalled network. How many pages in the wiki should be read and changed? Probably quite a lot. To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
if just 5 % of the Time that this and the other audiogenius nonsense would track you guys down would be spend in testing or how can i support the last mohican that supports the fucking stuff here that some of you uses or not instead is this the end threads and other brainfarts fill the gap just my .2 cents Gruss Jan DJanGo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1516 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
DJanGo wrote: if just 5 % of the Time that this and the other audiogenius nonsense would track you guys down would be spend in testing or how can i support the last mohican that supports the fucking stuff here that some of you uses or not instead is this the end threads and other brainfarts fill the gap just my .2 cents WTF? So what are people interested in buying audio equipment that when properly set up is capable of producing good sound without all the audiophile voodoo and overpriced/underperforming equipment that gets all attention in the audiophile press to do? I think that you have things completely backwards - individuals like Archimago (who tests some audio equipment and writes a blog about the results) and others, like myself, who post on this tiny corner of the internet are the underdogs in this situation. The big dogs are the high end audio manufacturers and their lap dogs in the high audio end press who have many times the resources and lots more time to make their unsubstantiated claims about their magic products. It's a battle we can't possibly win but we fight on nonetheless. Have a nice day. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose Muso Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
ralphpnj wrote: The Audiostream blog offers this little pre takedown of the Ars Technica Ethernet cable test: http://www.audiostream.com/content/trouble-audio-tests#5WUtFUSgOOb0s7uL.97 A few comments: First if I remember correctly did not Archimago state that he has been banned from posting comments on the Audiostream site and if so, then I strongly suggest that Archimago contact Mr. Lavorgna and demand that this post quoting him by taken down at once. Second I love the way Lavorgna goes from using individual preferences being used as proof of questionable audible differences to individual preferences being, well, just individual preferences. The complete dismissal of statistical methods in favor of purely anecdotal evidence is remarkable. Dr. Oz would be proud. Well. As they say, there's no such thing as bad publicity... :) Saw a pop in my viewership numbers the other day and found out why. Provides an opportunity for me to write a followup on his comments I suppose even though I can't post anything on his page directly. I'm not even sure he knows what he believes... Some kind of 'methodological solipsism' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism)? (I think someone mentioned this already in another thread...) The theory of solipsism also merits close examination because it relates to three widely held philosophical presuppositions, each itself fundamental and wide-ranging in importance: 1. My most certain knowledge is the content of my own mindmy thoughts, experiences, affects, etc. 2. There is no conceptual or logically necessary link between mental and physicalbetween, say, the occurrence of certain conscious experience or mental states and the 'possession' and behavioral dispositions of a 'body' of a particular kind (see the brain in a vat). 3. The experience of a given person is necessarily private to that person. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
The Audiostream blog offers this little pre takedown of the Ars Technica Ethernet cable test: http://www.audiostream.com/content/trouble-audio-tests#5WUtFUSgOOb0s7uL.97 A few comments: First if I remember correctly did not Archimago state that he has been banned from posting comments on the Audiostream site and if so, then I strongly suggest that Archimago contact Mr. Lavorgna and demand that this post quoting him by taken down at once. Second I love the way Lavorgna goes from using individual preferences being used as proof of questionable audible differences to individual preferences being, well, just individual preferences. The complete dismissal of statistical methods in favor of purely anecdotal evidence is remarkable. Dr. Oz would be proud. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose Muso Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
Grumpy Bob wrote: Ars Technica did a tear down of one of the two cables they bought for the test: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/07/gallery-we-tear-apart-a-340-audiophile-ethernet-cable-and-look-inside/ Robert The Ars Technica tests appear to be already obsolete as there is already CAT 7 amd CAT 8 standards for network cabling: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_11801#CAT7 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GG45 http://www.netshop.co.uk/product/110/ne101%5E23aco http://www.bestlinknetware.com/Product/100341BL?gclid=CLf39s7c8MYCFYyQHwod5n4I1g Any estimates as to how many veils network cabling systems conforming to these new standards will lift from your streamed audio? ;-) http://blog.loxone.com/enuk/cat7-cable/ arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
Wombat wrote: Now that the test is over the only report i found is on another forum here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295995 Not much info but the testers seem to have failed very quick. Unfortunately it seems they had a self-selecting test group, and saying can't hear a difference was an option, so the results are pretty useless. :) To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
arnyk wrote: ...Any estimates as to how many veils network cabling systems conforming to these new standards will lift from your streamed audio? ;-) Would that be while listening to the Dance of the Cat 7 Veils? artee's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
Now that the test is over the only report i found is on another forum here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295995 Not much info but the testers seem to have failed very quick. Anyone more googleluck? Transporter (modded) - RG142 - Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks - Sommer SPK240 - self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
Wombat wrote: Now that the test is over the only report i found is on another forum here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295995 Not much info but the testers seem to have failed very quick. Anyone more googleluck? Interesting but sparse information... Guess we'll have to wait for the official write-up and promised video. I'm really curious what gear they used as DAC, streamer, and headphones. I really hope they did this in a quiet room at least! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
Ars Technica did a tear down of one of the two cables they bought for the test: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/07/gallery-we-tear-apart-a-340-audiophile-ethernet-cable-and-look-inside/ Robert Touch DacMagic 100 Naim Audio Nait 3 Mission 752 (plus Rega Planar 3 and Naim CD3) 2 x Squeezebox Radios, 1 X Squeezebox 3 SqueezePad, iPeng, Squeezeplay, piCorePlayer(PiB)DACMagic 100, PiCorePlayer(Pi2)IQAudIO DAC+Sennheisers, (piCorePlayer(PiB)HiFiBerryDAC in reserve) QNAP TS-239, LMS 7.9 last.fm/user/GrumpyBob Grumpy Bob's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41857 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
Julf wrote: I agree. But so is watching the whole Penn Teller BS series... The PT BS series seems to be far more political than scientific. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
Archimago wrote: Oh yeah... Time for the Golden Ears to get ready and win a cool 7-figures in Vegas baby! It might be worthwhile asking Ars what gear they will use, and what test samples to -start training- in listening for subtle differences. I really hope they will do it right with good gear, impeccably quiet room, and excellent setup especially with speaker placement and listening sweetspot. With that kind of money, some top drawer gear and cables can be yours! An interesting tie-in with James Randii foundation: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/07/ars-prepares-to-put-audiophile-ethernet-cables-to-the-test-in-las-vegas/ This is to some degree history repeating itself: http://archive.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/97-swift-october-12-2007.html etc., etc. was brought to mind when my wife and I did some Sunday Afternoon's surfing of Netflix/streaming, and came up with this one: http://anhonestliar.com/wp/ AN HONEST LIAR is a feature documentary about the world-famous magician, escape artist, and world-renowned enemy of deception, James #8216;The Amazing#8217; Randi. The film brings to life Randi#8217;s intricate investigations that publicly exposed psychics, faith healers, and con-artists with quasi-religious fervor. A master deceiver who came out of the closet at the age of 81, Randi created fictional characters, fake psychics, and even turned his partner of 25 years, the artist Jose Alvarez, into a sham guru named Carlos. But when a shocking revelation in Randi#8217;s personal life is discovered, it isn#8217;t clear whether Randi is still the deceiver #8211; or the deceived. Watching it is IMO time well spent. I feel a lot of sympathy for Randii because I think that ABX has turned out to be a special case of his general goal of debunking generally accepted fakes. I was struck by the fact that it took only 5 rules to hogtie the Golden Ears with ABX while the Randii's more general solution seems to have taken 11 rules. Too bad societies' judgments about his preferences led to so much pain. I don't think his personal choices impugn his work. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
arnyk wrote: Watching it is IMO time well spent. I agree. But so is watching the whole Penn Teller BS series... To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
arnyk wrote: An interesting tie-in with James Randii foundation: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/07/ars-prepares-to-put-audiophile-ethernet-cables-to-the-test-in-las-vegas/ This is to some degree history repeating itself: http://archive.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/97-swift-october-12-2007.html etc., etc. was brought to mind when my wife and I did some Sunday Afternoon's surfing of Netflix/streaming, and came up with this one: http://anhonestliar.com/wp/ AN HONEST LIAR is a feature documentary about the world-famous magician, escape artist, and world-renowned enemy of deception, James The Amazing Randi. The film brings to life Randis intricate investigations that publicly exposed psychics, faith healers, and con-artists with quasi-religious fervor. A master deceiver who came out of the closet at the age of 81, Randi created fictional characters, fake psychics, and even turned his partner of 25 years, the artist Jose Alvarez, into a sham guru named Carlos. But when a shocking revelation in Randis personal life is discovered, it isnt clear whether Randi is still the deceiver or the deceived. Watching it is IMO time well spent. I feel a lot of sympathy for Randii because I think that ABX has turned out to be a special case of his general goal of debunking generally accepted fakes. I was struck by the fact that it took only 5 rules to hogtie the Golden Ears with ABX while the Randii's more general solution seems to have taken 11 rules. Too bad societies' judgments about his preferences led to so much pain. I don't think his personal choices impugn his work. Cool Arny. Will have to check out the documentary! Thanks... Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
Archimago wrote: As you know Wombat, measurements mean little to nothing to the religious audiophiles. Except when the measurements are done by one of their own (JA @ Stereophile) and which point the measurements can then be used to: 1) Prove how reasonable and highly scientific audiophiles can be 2) To form a stick to beat over the heads of the nonbelievers Audiophiles tend to use measurements and specs to either prove how great something is, e.g. the high resolution game 24bit 16 bit = better, 192kHz 44.1 kHz = better, or to be dismissed, e.g. distortion measurements of tube equipment. Numbers can be a nice little tool in the right hands. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose Muso Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
arnyk wrote: I followed up on the mention of Michael Lavorgna in that article http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/07/ars-prepares-to-put-audiophile-ethernet-cables-to-the-test-in-las-vegas/ and found this article: http://www.audiostream.com/content/daniel-j-levitin-your-brain-music#c4H6QTcIoDHG0ds4.97 I recommend the book heartily as among other things a proof text for some of the benefits of ABX testing. So I was initially surprised to find that an old school anti-DBT die hard like Lavorgna was also recommending it. Watch this spin: The scientific method requires that we control all possible variations in order to be able to draw firm conclusions about the phenomenon under study. Yet such control often creates stimuli or conditions that would never be encountered in the real world, situations that are so far removed from the real world as not even to be valid. The British philosopher Alan Watts, author of The Wisdom of Insecurity, put it this way: If you want to study a river, you dont take out a bucketful of water and stare at it on the shore. Several points: (1) Alan Watts was a very old-school philosopher who died in the early 1970s so his take on life might be just a little outdated. (2) If you are familiar with people who study river water quality professionally, you know that after studying the river to figure out where to sample it, taking out a bucket of water and studying it on the shore is exactly what you do, and it works. I think the point that Levitin was trying to make is that we can't skip too lightly over the part of the analysis where we figure out the representative places to take our samples. Yes. I have read the book (light reading while on vacation a couple years back...). Not bad. But he is trying to marry the fields of perception, neuroscience and his own background in music performance and production. As a result the book is more on -brain perception of music-, the different genres, rhythmic effects, evolution of the human audio/music perception system. -Certainly not much on the accuracy of the reproduction technology itself, which is what we're talking about.- As for Lavorgna using the quote to say something about the blind test, he is misguided and taking that quote out of context. Want to see the quote in situ? Can we define music by definitions? What about types of music, such as heavy metal, classical, or country? Such attempts would certainly fail as they did for games. We could, for example, say that heavy metal is a musical genre that has (a) distorted electric guitars; (b) heavy, loud drums; (c) three chords, or power chords; (d) sexy lead singers, usually shirtless, dripping sweat and swinging the microphone stand around the stage like it was a piece of rope; (e) ümlauts in the gröup names. But this strict list of definitions is easy to refute. Although most heavy metal songs have distorted electric guitars, so does Beat It by Michael Jacksonin fact, Eddie Van Halen (the heavy metal god) plays the guitar solo in that song. Even the Carpenters have a song with a distorted guitar, and no one would call them heavy metal. Led Zeppelinthe quintessential heavy metal band and arguably the band that spawned the genrehas several songs with no distorted guitars at all (Bron-y-aur, Down by the Seaside, Goin to California, The Battle of Nevermore). Stairway to Heaven by Led Zeppelin is a heavy metal anthem, and there are no heavy, loud drums (or distorted guitars for that matter) in 90 percent of that song. Nor does Stairway to Heaven have only three chords. And lots of songs have three chords and power chords that are not heavy metal, including most songs by Raffi. Metallica is a heavy metal band for sure, but Ive never heard anyone call their lead singer sexy, and although Mötley Crüe, Blue Öyster Cult, Motörhead, Spin¨al Tap, and Queensrÿche have gratuitous umlauts, many heavy metal bands do not: Led Zeppelin, Metallica, Black Sabbath, Def Leppard, Ozzie Osbourne, Triumph, etc. Definitions of musical genres arent very useful; we say that something is heavy metal if it resembles heavy metala family resemblance. Armed with her knowledge of Wittgenstein, Rosch decided that something can be more or less a category member; rather than being all or none as Aristotle had believed, there are shades of membership, degrees of fit to a category, and subtle shadings. Is a robin a bird? Most people would answer yes. Is a chicken a bird? Is a penguin? Most people would say yes after a slight pause, but then would add that chickens and penguins are not very good examples of birds, nor typical of the category. This is reflected in everyday speech when we use linguistic hedges such as A chicken is technically a bird, or Yes, a penguin is a bird, but it doesnt fly like most other birds. Rosch, following Wittgenstein, showed that categories do not always have clear boundariesthey have fuzzy boundaries. Questions of
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
Julf wrote: But as Lee Hutchinson writes, Realistically, we also know that this test wont sway anyoneif for no other reason than that audiophiles tend to discount the results of blind listening tests (especially A/B/X tests like were planning on conducting). I followed up on the mention of Michael Lavorgna in that article http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/07/ars-prepares-to-put-audiophile-ethernet-cables-to-the-test-in-las-vegas/ and found this article: http://www.audiostream.com/content/daniel-j-levitin-your-brain-music#c4H6QTcIoDHG0ds4.97 I recommend the book heartily as among other things a proof text for some of the benefits of ABX testing. So I was initially surprised to find that an old school anti-DBT die hard like Lavorgna was also recommending it. Watch this spin: The scientific method requires that we control all possible variations in order to be able to draw firm conclusions about the phenomenon under study. Yet such control often creates stimuli or conditions that would never be encountered in the real world, situations that are so far removed from the real world as not even to be valid. The British philosopher Alan Watts, author of The Wisdom of Insecurity, put it this way: If you want to study a river, you dont take out a bucketful of water and stare at it on the shore. Several points: (1) Alan Watts was a very old-school philosopher who died in the early 1970s so his take on life might be just a little outdated. (2) If you are familiar with people who study river water quality professionally, you know that after studying the river to figure out where to sample it, taking out a bucket of water and studying it on the shore is exactly what you do, and it works. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
Julf wrote: But as Lee Hutchinson writes, Realistically, we also know that this test wont sway anyoneif for no other reason than that audiophiles tend to discount the results of blind listening tests (especially A/B/X tests like were planning on conducting). Right. It's all about their inability to see outside of the logic-tight boxes that they seem to live in. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
Wirrunna wrote: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/07/ars-prepares-to-put-audiophile-ethernet-cables-to-the-test-in-las-vegas/ Should be interesting. Only because of the poor state of STEM education in way too many places. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
Archimago wrote: Oh yeah... Time for the Golden Ears to get ready and win a cool 7-figures in Vegas baby! It might be worthwhile asking Ars what gear they will use, and what test samples to -start training- in listening for subtle differences. I really hope they will do it right with good gear, impeccably quiet room, and excellent setup especially with speaker placement and listening sweetspot. It should be verified with a simple measurement if the grounding is correctly done before listening. Shieldings of ethernet may play together with a wrongly done connector. Transporter (modded) - RG142 - Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks - Sommer SPK240 - self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
Wombat wrote: I ask for a quick verify measurement because lately i did read about an ethernet cable was proven to be better with hum/noise in the output of a system. Can't find it anymore. This is a very weird way of reasoning because any component that produces audible noise in the output because the ethernet cable gets attached is imho out of spec. Indeed. That would be very strange to see strong hum and would point to poor hardware design resulting in impaired noise rejection! Find this post! It'll let us know what device to avoid perhaps. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
I ask for a quick verify measurement because lately i did read about an ethernet cable was proven to be better with hum/noise in the output of a system. Can't find it anymore. This is a very weird way of reasoning because any component that produces audible noise in the output because the ethernet cable gets attached is imho out of spec. Transporter (modded) - RG142 - Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks - Sommer SPK240 - self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
Wombat wrote: It should be verified with a simple measurement if the grounding is correctly done before listening. Shieldings of ethernet may play together with a wrongly done connector. As you know Wombat, measurements mean little to nothing to the religious audiophiles. Point taken however, I really hope the test conditions are reasonable controlled with a decent room, good equipment including decent grounding, quiet ambient noise, and hopefully also able to select some trained listeners and folks recognized as having excellent hearing ability to participate. Otherwise, the criticisms will come hard and fast as already witnessed with the 'Lavorgna post on this today' (http://www.audiostream.com/content/smackdown-amazing-randi-ars-technica-take-ethernet-cables#comments-link#VAbf4C4xdv3rg81K.97) and his non-banned cadre of commenters like CG who dares to suggest objective testers being the religious ones: But, I guess every form of religion has its own core immutable tenets. How bizarre and perverse. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
Wirrunna wrote: Should be interesting. But as Lee Hutchinson writes, Realistically, we also know that this test wont sway anyoneif for no other reason than that audiophiles tend to discount the results of blind listening tests (especially A/B/X tests like were planning on conducting). To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: Ars prepares to put �audiophile� Ethernet cables to the test
Wirrunna wrote: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/07/ars-prepares-to-put-audiophile-ethernet-cables-to-the-test-in-las-vegas/ Should be interesting. Oh yeah... Time for the Golden Ears to get ready and win a cool 7-figures in Vegas baby! It might be worthwhile asking Ars what gear they will use, and what test samples to -start training- in listening for subtle differences. I really hope they will do it right with good gear, impeccably quiet room, and excellent setup especially with speaker placement and listening sweetspot. With that kind of money, some top drawer gear and cables can be yours! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103978 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
