The Covenant protects the Baha'i Faith from schism
The Baha'i Studies Listserv A new posting on the protecting power of the Covenant. Feel free to share. http://bahai-covenant.blogspot.com/2010/12/covenant-protects-from-schism.html Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-548903-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
The Covenant protects the Baha'i Faith from schism
The Baha'i Studies Listserv A new posting on the protecting power of the Covenant. Feel free to share the link to my Covenant blog. http://bahai-covenant.blogspot.com/2010/12/covenant-protects-from-schism.html Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-548905-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Fwd: I am looking for a story that I think you will know of; can you help?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Adib asked for this story: Brent The story of Haji Muhammad would not be complete without referring to one of his noble qualities, namely, his utter obedience to the Centre of the Cause. There was a time when Haji Muhammad had a business concern in 'Akká. One day he was sitting in his office when the Master arrived with an urgent instruction from Bahá'u'lláh that Haji Muhammad should immediately proceed to Jaddih (Jiddah) in Arabia. He asked 'Abdu'l-Bahá if he could be permitted to attain the presence of Bahá'u'lláh before departing for Jaddih. The Master told him that there was no time, for the boat was leaving at any minute. Haji Muhammad at once closed the office, and without even paying a visit to his family boarded the ship which sailed away almost immediately. Once on board, he realized that because of the extraordinary rush, he had not even thought to ask the Master the purpose of his trip to Jaddih. But now it was too late, and he knew that Bahá'u'lláh would guide his steps when he arrived in that city. This is the best example of instant, exact and complete obedience to the command of Bahá'u'lláh. The journey was fraught with danger because the sea was unusually stormy. The danger of the ship sinking was in everyone's mind except for Haji Muhammad, who was sure that it would sail safely to its destination because God had given him a mission in Jaddih, the nature of which was as yet unknown to him. Soon after disembarking from the ship, he heard two people speaking in Persian among the crowds. When he approached them he soon found out that they were Bahá'ís. They were Haji Mirza Haydar-'Ali, that illustrious follower of Bahá'u'lláh, and his fellow prisoner Husayn-i- Shirazi who had been set free from their ten-year imprisonment in Khartum and were on their way to 'Akká. They were in need of help and guidance, for this was their first journey to the Holy Land. Haji Muhammad knew then that the purpose of his mission in Jaddih was to assist these two souls to go to 'Akká, a task which he then carried out ably. (Adib Taherzadeh, The Revelation of Baha'u'llah Vol. 4, p. 24) __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-544251-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
The Passing of `Abdu'l-Baha
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear friends: In recent years, a recording has come to light from Saichiro Fugita, a Japanese believer who accompanied Abdu'l-Baha on His journey through the western United States in 1912. Abdu'l-Baha then urged him to gain a knowledge of electricity and in horticulture, and then invited Fugita to come to live in the Holy Land in 1919, where he put this knowledge to good use. Fugita was later interviewed by Sylvia Ioas about his life in Haifa with the Master and then with the Guardian. Fugita left a description of the day of the Master's passing, of His funeral procession, and of the reading of His Will. The transcript of his full talk is here, a portion of which is shared below: http://bahai-library.com/pilgrims/fujita.html Fugita's memory of the passing of the Master is found at that site, along with other recollections of his, not shown here. Fugita gives the only description I know of, of the reading of the Master's Will, in the central hall of Number 7 Haparsim, and the respect shown to Shoghi Effendi by the friends as the Will was read. That portion is below. I have also appended Marzieh Gail's description of John Bosch's recollections of the Day of the Master's funeral, adapted from her wonderful book, Dawn over Mount Hira. Brent - Excerpt From the Interview of Saichiro Fugita http://bahai-library.com/pilgrims/fujita.html Yes. `Abdu'l-Baha used to walk right on that main, little street, used to be narrow like this. I used to level it, widen. He used to walk from little house, up there. I was cleaning, smoothing and laugh, I was working, I mean, leveling, working hard, making a path, road for easy to walk. He used to take walk right around here, up to the German colony here, a couple block, and then come home. You know, before `Abdu'l-Baha passing away, it was on a Friday, we went visit the mosque in Haifa, Friday morning. That day return from mosque, He had to walk up the step. He says I am tired, went into the room. Then Friday, Saturday, Sunday! Three days. Sunday night, He passed away. Those days we had many American pilgrims there. That Mr. and Mrs. Hoagg, Boschs were there. I heard the cry, deafening noise. So immediately I went up this gate, there's many collected and mourning, the Eastern believers very demonstrative, you know. I said What is it? It's `Abdu'l-Baha has passed. So immediately I come back to Pilgrim House, informed them. And some of them come out, come now. That day. It's one o'clock, and all the family are all together there. Can't help. Doctor just left, Dr. Habib, that Christian Arab, that's their family doctor. Then from that room we had after few days, the day in Mount Carmel. I went there myself, making a place. ( ) called, ah, Ramatullah, he's very strong man, he carried casket way down. Ramatullah lived a long time ago, he was caretaker, gardener, very nice man. He had a big family, but years ago. All the notables from Haifa and Jerusalem, all were collected here, ah, for funeral. Even Herbert Samuel, walked right up, passing Master. Just out from this room, Number seven, and go around, Rahmatu'llah turn corner, in front of center of church, then go up, up, up, up, up to the Shrine. Everybody carrying casket up to the resting-place. Then up memorial day, we had biggest service here in Number seven. Then we had biggest dinner, luncheon served in, ah, Number nine. That one of the daughter's family, Ruha Khanum. Will of, ah, `Abdu'l-Baha read in Number seven. In the center of the hall! That room! Oh, we had the biggest, ah, meeting there. All sitting on floor. A prominent Baha'i, from Egypt, he read the Will, right in the corner, and everybody faced, and everybody sat around, even the Nakazeen, some of the Nakazeen was among us, violator. Very touching ceremony. Oh, from early in morning, we had a meeting, ah, to go some time, to circulate all the Will of `Abdu'l-Baha. Every time mention, ah, Shoghi Effendi's name, everybody arise. Very respectable, very. That's why the Shoghi Effendi is be Guardian of the Cause. That day. ( ) family, back in that tea room now. See, the gentlemen and the ladies are all segregated. They know, behind the curtain, they all know. The Will of `Abdu'l-Baha was read, everybody consented, Shoghi Effendi is the Guardian of the Cause. That's final, nobody object, and then after the passing `Abdu'l-Baha, the reign of Guardian, Shoghi Effendi. --- Excerpts adapted From Marzieh Gail's book Dawn Over Mount Hira available here: http://www.grbooks.com/show_book.php?book_id=50 * Resting on John Bosch's Shoulder* John Bosch recounts meeting the Master in New York: 'Abdu'l-Bahá walked to the first automobile... He grabbed my hand and pulled me into the rear seat; Mountfort Mills closed the door and I was alone with 'Abdu'l-Bahá. The believers had planned to show the city to the Master...to give Him a good time seeing
Commentary on the House of Justice
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear friends: I have posted an article about the divine guidance flowing to the House of Justice during the enactment of legislation, and addressing the passage from Shoghi Effendi's Dispensation letter in which he speaks of the role of the Guardian in the process of legislation, particularly the passage about reconsideration of enactments he believes to conflict with the meaning or depart from the spirit of the Text. http://bahai-covenant.blogspot.com/2010/11/house-justice-legislation-infallibility.html Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-537662-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
New Posting
The Baha'i Studies Listserv The Magnificent Character of the Greatest Holy Leaf http://bahai-storytelling.blogspot.com/2010/10/magnificent-character-greatest-holy.html __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-530595-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Fwd: WAVES OF ONE SEA: Songs for Baha’i Children’s Classes (Grade 2) Volume 2 ENGLISH VERSION
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Spread the word Brent Original Message Subject:WAVES OF ONE SEA: Songs for Baha’i Children’s Classes (Grade 2) Volume 2 ENGLISH VERSION Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 18:09:05 -0700 (PDT) From: edwin edpalina mtcarmel_producti...@yahoo.com To: edwin edpalina mtcarmel_producti...@yahoo.com Dear Friends, Please be informed that WAVES OF ONE SEA: Songs for Baha’i Children’s Classes (Grade 2) Volume 2 ENGLISH VERSION is now available at this link:http://www.mtcarmelproductions.com/english/book-3a-vol-2/ http://www.mtcarmelproductions.com/english/book-3a-vol-2/ What's on Volume 2: 1. Sing His Praises (/Creadell Haley)/ 2. Attributes of God /(Wiley Rinaldi)/ 3. Síyáh-Chál /(Leslie Garrett)/ ///4. Looking for Good (/David Hunt) ///5. I Thank and Praise Thee Lord /(Joan Lincoln) 6. Others Must Come First /(Wiley Rinaldi)/ /7. The Prince of Peace /(Lloyd Haynes)// //8. Patience /(Leslie Garrett)/// ///9. The Covenant /(Chong Boo Haw) 10. Kam Kam /(Bob and Linda Simms/) 11. Joy (/Nancy Ward)/ /12. Forgive Each Other /(Wiley Rinaldi)// //13. I’ll Walk the Path /(Gregory Shaw)/// ///14. Toko Zani /(Benjamin Dlamini) 15. Sing a New Song (/Phyllis Day) / Mt. Carmel Productions mtcarmel_producti...@yahoo.com mailto:mtcarmel_producti...@yahoo.com __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-529825-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Good object lesson for avoiding reading Covenant-breaker sites
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Stephen, your statement that only 10% of the Covenant-breaker websites is negative, demonstrates the problem, and your unawareness of the situation. While discussing these ideas with deepened Baha'is, reading the Sacred Text and the Master's Last Tablet to America, and reciting prayers are all good ideas, there is no substitute, in your situation, for sitting down with your Auxiliary Board member for Protection to discuss these things. Your spirit has been affected by not only the Covenant-breaker material but by the ravings of Fred Glaysher. You need the calming spirit and benevolent influence of a member of the Protection Board, or a Counsellor. You've exposed yourself to poison, and taken deep drinks of poison. Might it not be time to consider what I wrote to you off-list? As an enrolled believer, you have access to the NSA's website www.usbnc.org and prominent on that website is a list of the Auxiliary Board members, and you can easily find your Protection Board member; or as I wrote, I will help you to locate him or her. This is more important a matter than you realize. Take the opportunity that the Baha'is on this list are offering to you. You owe it to yourself to learn the truth about the Baha'i Faith, and you aren't getting it from these websites. They're sending you wandering off into the wilderness, and you're rejecting everything the Baha'is are offering you. It won't hurt to get the other perspective, and your Protection Board is where to go -- face to face. Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-524026-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Good object lesson for avoiding reading Covenant-breaker sites
The Baha'i Studies Listserv The danger in reading Covenant breaker sites is often not that the person will be in danger of following these groups; it is that they destroy one's faith. The confusing answers of Mr. Grey, and his statement that he is leaving religion altogether, make the point very clearly. ' One of the most malicious slanders of the Faith is the comparisons of the Learned to the East German stazi or other tyrannical regimes. This prevents the believer from seeking support from the people most capable of giving it. As to the person who supposedly met a grandson of Abdu'l-Baha, whose father broke the Covenant, and through whom he did not claim to be a Guardian. This makes absolutely no sense. The children of Abdu'l-Baha were all daughters. It is more likely that it was a great grandson, and possibly one of them was, for a time, faithful to the Covenant during the conversation he had with the believer you know. But now all of the male descendants, down to the present day, are out of the Faith (or at least that was the case up to a decade ago when I asked a House member). Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-523726-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
A new blog
The Baha'i Studies Listserv http://why-a-bahai.blogspot.com/2010/08/1-because-of-bahai-prayers.html Why I am a Baha'i -- the first of a series of postings. Later posts will include: Because of the Baha'i plan for peace; because Baha'u'llah fulfills Bible prophecy; because it makes sense; because it puts me in touch with God, etc. Maybe some of these will be useful to your seeker friends. Your comments on that site are welcome Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-523274-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: CB claims
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Don Calkins wrote: Seems to me that one of your articles should at least touch on the claim that various pretenders to the station of Guardian are legitimized thru' being adopted into the Aghsan... One of the interesting things is, as I see it, that Remey never made the argument himself; it's been Marengella and his followers and schismatics. Dear Don: The implications of the Master establishing the Guardianship as a hereditary office are described here: http://bahai-covenant.blogspot.com/2009/03/spiritual-and-physical-requirements-for.html I never quote from CB documents, unless Shoghi Effendi or the Hands or the House of Justice has quoted from them, and I urge the same posture here on this list, i.e. not quoting CB materials later in this discussion. Shoghi Effendi quotes Khayrullah in God Passes By; the Hands quote Remey in Ministry of the Custodians, and the House of Justice quotes Remey in one of its letters, and our quoting those materials will, on the other hand, strengthen the readership in the Covenant. The matter of the hereditary nature of the office of Guardian is well settled as I explain here, quoting the Hands: http://bahai-covenant.blogspot.com/2009/03/must-guardian-of-cause-be-descendant-of.html This posting thoroughly addresses the subject that the Guardian must be the descendant of the Manifestation: http://bahai-covenant.blogspot.com/2009/04/mason-remey-covenant-breaker.htm and includes this explanation of the implication of Remey not making his claim until a full two years after Shoghi Effendi's passing: Yawning Inconsistencies in the Conduct of Mason Remey Since Mason Remey had concocted this claim, he either had to admit that he did not know during that entire two-year period that he was the Guardian, which was inconsistent with his claim to be the infallible interpreter of the Word of God; or he had to say that he had known, and he was hiding this from the Baha'i world, which was inconsistent with his claim to be the infallible protector of the Cause of God. In both cases, it is impossible that a true Guardian of the Cause would conduct himself as Mason Remey did. In letters written on his behalf, Shoghi Effendi had stated that the Guardian of the Cause is guided in his decisions to do that which protects it [the Baha'i Faith] and fosters its growth and highest interests, http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/se/LANZ/lanz-40.html#pg55 and that the Guardian of the Cause is infallible in the protection of the Faith. http://bahai-library.com/file.php?file=uhj_infallibility_history_guardian The divinely-guided Guardian of the Cause always acts in the best interests of the Faith, and is infallible in its protection. Mason Remey claims to have been the Guardian of the Cause throughout 1958 and 1959, when he was one of the Hands of the Cause of God, whose actions during that period he later condemned. How could he condemn his own actions, which he claimed were divinely guided? How could the divinely-guided Guardian of the Cause act against the Faith's best interests for two years? If he was divinely-guided, why didn't he recognize from the outset that the direction the Hands were taking was the wrong one? How could the divinely-guided Guardian of the Cause not know that he was the Guardian? How could he claim that the designation of him as the Interpreter of the Word of God was hidden in the messages of Shoghi Effendi, when he himself had missed their import? How could he be the infallibly-guided Guardian, yet formally and repeatedly deny that there was a Guardian? How could he be infallible in the protection of the Faith, yet withhold his identity as the divinely guided one---the essence of protection of the Faith---from the believers? And how could he be the successor to Shoghi Effendi, when he even denied that Shoghi Effendi was the Guardian, stated that Shoghi Effendi had grievously misinterpreted the Master's Will, and undertook to undo Shoghi Effendi's entire life work? This is sheer nonsense. Mason Remey's selfish motives are transparent. It is quite astonishing that anyone ever accepted his claims. -- Nothing is more explicit and more clear than the successorship in the Baha'i Faith, and that is addressed here http://bahai-covenant.blogspot.com/2009/03/unmistakable-clarity-of-covenant.html Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-522332-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public -
The Significance of the Scriptural symbols of Dryness and Drowning
The Baha'i Studies Listserv A new posting on this topic http://bahai-insights.blogspot.com/2010/08/lover-dry-in-sea.html Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-522567-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Third subtle entity
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I believe that it was on this list that someone recently asked about the third subtle entity passage attributed to Baha'u'llah. Someone then correctly pointed out that this was a quote from Rosemary Sala in an article in the Baha'i World published in 1937. However, there is a Tablet from Baha'u'llah that bears remarkable similarity. A provisional translation by Hossein Achtchi is in a comment on this page, following the brief article on the hereditary nature of the Institution of Guardianship. http://bahai-covenant.blogspot.com/2009/03/must-guardian-of-cause-be-descendant-of.html Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-521954-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: Seal of the Prophets
The Baha'i Studies Listserv One of the Baha'is wrote: ...both Prophethood Messengership are sealed by Prophet Muhammad.And Bab and Baha'u'llah are Manifestations of God; that is quite different from those previous stations. Shoghi Effendi states that Baha'u'llah is referred to in the Qur'an as the third messenger: His advent He, in that Book, in a surih said to have been termed by Him 'the heart of the Qur'án,' had foreshadowed as that of the 'third' Messenger, sent down to 'strengthen' the two who preceded Him. (Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 96) Shoghi Effendi refers to Baha'u'llah as God's Messenger on page 115 of The Promised Day is Come, and as God's appointed Messenger for this day on pages 125, 139, as well as on page 152 of Citadel of Faith; on pages 90, 94, 103, 119 and 153 of Messages to the Baha'i World In The Promised Day is Come, Shoghi Effendi refers to Baha'u'llah as God's greatest Messenger (p. 4) and as God's supreme Messenger (p. 112, 115) I believe it is a harmful distinction because it introduces a kind of spiritual arrogance into Baha'i discourse, to say that Baha'u'llah and the Bab are neither Prophets nor Messengers. I may be mistaken, but I urge you to reflect on this possibility. Respectfully and with very warmest greetings Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-513870-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: Seal of the Prophets
The Baha'i Studies Listserv The Qur'an is very emphatic at times about the equality of all the prophets with statements like we make no distinction between any o= f them, yet it also says we have exalted some above others. The latter phrase has been used for centuries to claim that Muhammad (pbuh) was the chief or greatest of all the prophets who came before him. But there ar= e also Hadiths which have the prophet scolding some of his followers for claiming that he was better than Moses, and he replied that he wasn't even better than Jonah. So, the essence vs. manifestation argument is a good way at solving the problem of who is better than who. Baha'u'llah warns to make no distinctions. All references to the Greatness of Baha'u'llah are because of the Greatness of His Message -- and that is entirely a factor of humanity's greater receptivity and capacity at this time. If humanity had been grown up 2000 years ago or 700 years ago, Jesus Christ or Muhammad would have given this Greatest of Revelations. In conclusion of this theme, I feel, it should be stated that the Revelation identified with Bahá'u'lláh abrogates unconditionally all the Dispensations gone before it, upholds uncompromisingly the eternal verities they enshrine, recognizes firmly and absolutely the Divine origin of their Authors, preserves inviolate the sanctity of their authentic Scriptures, disclaims any intention of lowering the status of their Founders or of abating the spiritual ideals they inculcate, clarifies and correlates their functions, reaffirms their common, their unchangeable and fundamental purpose, reconciles their seemingly divergent claims and doctrines, readily and gratefully recognizes their respective contributions to the gradual unfoldment of one Divine Revelation, unhesitatingly acknowledges itself to be but one link in the chain of continually progressive Revelations, supplements their teachings with such laws and ordinances as conform to the imperative needs, and are dictated by the growing receptivity, of a fast evolving and constantly changing society, and proclaims its readiness and ability to fuse and incorporate the contending sects and factions into which they have fallen into a universal Fellowship, functioning within the framework, and in accordance with the precepts, of a divinely conceived, a world-unifying, a world-redeeming Order. (Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 100) In this passage Shoghi Effendi relates Baha'u'llah to being both Prophet and Messenger; the following two paragraphs follow one upon the other in The World Order of Baha'u'llah: The door of the knowledge of the Ancient of Days, Bahá'u'lláh further states in the Kitáb-i-Íqán, being thus closed in the face of all beings, He, the Source of infinite grace ... hath caused those luminous Gems of Holiness to appear out of the realm of the spirit, in the noble form of the human temple, and be made manifest unto all men, that they may impart unto the world the mysteries of the unchangeable Being and tell of the subtleties of His imperishable Essence... All the Prophets of God, His well-favored, His holy and chosen Messengers are, without exception, the bearers of His names and the embodiments of His attributes... These Tabernacles of Holiness, these primal Mirrors which reflect the Light of unfading glory, are but expressions of Him Who is the Invisible of the Invisibles. That Bahá'u'lláh should, notwithstanding the overwhelming intensity of His Revelation, be regarded as essentially one of these Manifestations of God, never to be identified with that invisible Reality, the Essence of Divinity itself, is one of the major beliefs of our Faith -- a belief which should never be obscured and the integrity of which no one of its followers should allow to be compromised. (Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 113) Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-513878-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
And the Leaves of the Tree were for the Healing of the Nations
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear friends: I have prepared a new posting about the individuals mentioned in the Tablets of the Divine Plan. These are, in my personal view, among those Baha'is who fulfilled Bible prophecy. http://tablets-divine-plan.blogspot.com/2010/06/leaves-tree-healing-nations.html Loving greetings Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-508039-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Jinn and Evil
The Baha'i Studies Listserv 1. 1772. What is Commonly Called Evil spirits is Normally an Imaginary Creation But Evil Exists Both in This World And The Next In regard to your question concerning evil spirits and their influence upon souls, Shoghi Effendi wishes me to inform you that what is generally called evil spirit is a purely imaginary creation and has no reality whatever. But as to evil, there is no doubt that it exerts a very strong influence both in this world and in the next. 'Abdu'l-Bahá in the Some Answered Questions gives us a thorough and true analysis of the problem of evil. You should preferably refer to that book for further explanation on that point. (From letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, November 1, 1934) (Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 521) Everything I read about the next world tells me that it is a world of lights, of realties, where Truth is apparent. This sentence alone -- that evil exerts a very strong influence in the next world -- says the opposite. Therefore, I conclude that the meaning of this sentence -- that evil exerts a strong influence in the next world is this: A pregnant woman drinks alcohol. That alcohol exerts a strong negative influence on the baby, both in the world of the womb, and in this world. To bring this back to the statement from the Guardian's letter, the evil has influence in the next world, i.e. the evil acts of people in this world, exerts a very strong influence in the next world, in that the evil done in this world has consequences after the person's death. Not, that evil is rampant in the next world like it is here, that people can lie in the next world, that people can commit injustice in the next world. The next world is where the truth emerges, where lies have no place, where no one is capable of lying or of injuring another, where injustices that occurred in this world are rectified. My second purpose in writing is to offer a thought about why Baha'u'llah refers to jinn, without explaining that they are symbolic: He is writing to the Muslims, and He uses the terms in their Book. In similar fashion, Baha'u'llah tries to impact on the deeds of Muslims by quoting to them about their own opinions of how the resurrection will work: Rememberest thou not God's warning uttered in times past, that thou mayest be of them that heed His warning? He said, and He, verily, speaketh the truth: From it (earth) have We created you, and unto it will We return you, and out of it will We bring you forth a second time. This is what God ordained unto all them that dwell on earth, be they high or low. It behoveth not, therefore, him who was created from dust, who will return unto it, and will again be brought forth out of it, to swell with pride before God, and before His loved ones, to proudly scorn them, and be filled with disdainful arrogance. Nay, rather it behoveth thee and those like thee to submit yourselves to them Who are the Manifestations of the unity of God, and to defer humbly to the faithful... (Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 231) Even though in other places in His Writings, Baha'u'llah explains that the resurrection does not mean resurrection of the body, it has entirely spiritual meaning; in this passage, Baha'u'llah quotes a verse from the Qur'an without giving it a spiritual meaning, to impact on his reader. And I am saying that by analogy, Baha'u'llah makes reference to the jinn, in a passage that Gary is having difficulty understanding, not to backtrack on His other statements that jinn have no actual existence, just as a way of using the fear of God as a tool to get people to act differently. That's my understanding. Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-507203-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Lesser Prophets
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Mary Lou: Personally, I think that Mormons should primarily be approached as Christians, only secondarily as Mormons. That is, that they are best approached with the explanations in Some Answered Questions and the Book of Certitude, about the Bible and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, the way any other Christians would be approached, rather than on a focus on the various writings of the Latter Day Saints religion. Because I do not see the Guardian endorsing Joseph Smith as a Lesser Prophet, and I do not see him endorsing his writings as sacred Scripture. The source for the Guardian's writings on this Faith are primarily found in Lights of Guidance, I suggest you take a look there. And the Guardian says in one of his letters to the Baha'is of Alaska that historians will pass on his writings, which is not the approach he takes to any Scriptures: As there is nothing specific about Joseph Smith in the teachings, the Guardian has no statement to make on his position or about the accuracy of any statement in the Book of Mormon regarding American history or its peoples. This is a matter for historians to pass upon (Shoghi Effendi through his secretary, High Endeavours - Messages to Alaska, p. 71) The Guardian wrote that it is advisable to approach the LDS people with matters that are common to both, and my recollection is that he said that we share certain ethical teachings, such as chastity and abstinence from alcohol. There are books such as So Great A Cause by an LDS man who became a Baha'i, which you can get on inter-library loan, the Las Cruces public library has a very good program for this, and this would answer your question about the prophecy in Joseph Smith's book The Pearl of Great Price, about if he lived to a certain age he would see the return of Christ, and that pointed to a date towards the end of Baha'u'llah's life. Joseph Smith was murdered about one month after the Declaration of the Bab. Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-503965-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Lesser Prophets
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I wonder if we have not seen the end of the phenomenon of Lesser Prophets, with the close of the Cycle of Prophecy. Humanity used to get these short bursts of inspired Minor Prophets, with their unassailable moral integrity, upholding the divine standard and warning the people to adhere to it. But now we have the inspired House of Justice, and it's here full time, and not only crying out as an individual, but with a formal, institutionalized, permanent, deep and widespread influence; and combined with that, we have the potential of the individual believers attaining to the station of the Lesser Prophets of old. Actually, I think that is not a statement of sameness, it is just a shorthand way of the Master conveying that this Day is unique. It is reminiscent of Baha'u'llah saying that the station of the Letters of the Living is ten thousand times greater than the apostles of old (WOB 108). That's not a matter of quantifying; in a sense, ten thousand is not a big enough number, even a million is too small a number. Because just as ten thousand singing birds don't equate to one human being; the whole scale has been lifted up with the coming of Baha'u'llah. There's no comparing any more. One righteous work performed in this Day, equalleth all the virtuous acts which for myriads of centuries men have practised -- nay, We ask forgiveness of God for such a comparison! (Iqan, paragraph 153) One good deed in this Day, excels all the good deeds performed by all human beings in all previous Dispensations. In a previous Dispensation, one man, the High Priest; would on one day, the holiest day of the year; enter one place, the Holy of Holies; and one time, would recite the Name of God. Now, the Name of God is the way humans are to greet one another. The whole earth has been raised up. It's like astronomical distances, where you have a distance measured in millions of light years, which stops being an instrument of measure, and just becomes a sense of that's farther than I can imagine. You can't add up enough diamonds, or birds, to equate to one human being, and you can't add up enough of anything from previous Dispensations to equate to the spirit, and teachings, and institutions Baha'u'llah has brought -- particularly including the full-time presence of divine guidance, and incorruptible application of the laws of the Revelation, represented in the House of Justice. And though we can't see it now, I think the idea is that the whole earth will be populated by believers who attain to the station of Lesser Prophets. Not the title, and not the functions, but something of the exaltation. Baha'u'llah said the day will come when a woman traveling alone will be able to traverse the entire surface of the earth unmolested, and without a single man having looked upon her with lust. The effect of His laws and teachings and institutions cannot presently be imagined. And that's why any deed we do in furtherance of this Cause, is incalculably significant. We're the instruments of furthering something that's never been here before. Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-503727-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Standard of the truth of the Baha'i Faith
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Shahram Rohani wrote: dear Friends, please note that Bahaullah has taught us that the size and number,or duration can not be a logical reason for correctness of a faith.We should observe that the other groups,like Azalis,have existed the same time.Or if we consider the size n volume of followers of a religion,as a proof,then the total number of members of Bahai groups,or the population of Bahai Intl Community,in comparison with the followers of other faiths, will show an opposite result. I think every message or claim ,in its essence and contents should be justifying and logical. This is what Shoghi Effendi has written. Not by the material resources which the members of this infant community can now summon to their aid; not by the numerical strength of its present-day supporters; nor by any direct tangible benefits its votaries can as yet confer upon the multitude of the needy and the disconsolate among their countrymen, should its potentialities be tested or its worth determined. Nowhere but in the purity of its precepts, the sublimity of its standards, the integrity of its laws, the reasonableness of its claims, the comprehensiveness of its scope, the universality of its program, the flexibility of its institutions, the lives of its founders, the heroism of its martyrs, and the transforming power of its influence, should the unprejudiced observer seek to obtain the true criterion that can enable him to fathom its mysteries or to estimate its virtue. (The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 54) Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-486596-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Baha'u'llah's Divinity
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Perhaps The Proclamation of Baha'u'llah which includes Baha'u'llah's summons to the Christian clergy -- including excerpts from the Lawh-i-Aqdas; or that Tablet itself, though I suggest the former for the Benedictine Monk. However, if by divinity the priest means that He was raised from the dead and physically went to heaven, then nothing will satisfy him. But perhaps he will hear the voice behind the words in the Proclamation, explaining the true meaning of the Bible prophecies. By the way, on another subject-- Abdu'l-Baha promised that the Faith of Baha'u'llah would not be divided, because of the Covenant of Baha'u'llah. He stated, in a passage I cannot find, I think it is in Nine Years in Akka -- that although there will be a small following of Azal in the future, there will be not one follower of Mirza Muhammad Ali in the future. That is, Azal violated, not the Covenant of Baha'u'llah, but the Covenant of the Bab. Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-486598-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Lesser Prophets
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Stephen Gray asks: Does the Baha'i Faith have a stance on wether or not there will be Baha'i dependent prophets like during the Old Testament times (ie Issiah, Jeremiah, Ezra, Nehemiah, Obadiah, Zafaniah, Zekariah,=A0Samuel, Ezekiel, Daniel, Joel, etc.)of the Dispensation of Moses? Jensenites say yes, but I do not know if the Universal House of Justice has ever discuccesd the issue of dependent prophecy in the Baha'i Faith. While to my knowledge in the literature I have read, the Baha'i Writings do not expressly answer the question you have asked, the answer is clearly given by implication. After many Major Prophets, there is often a series of Minor Prophets, such as those you have listed. However, in this Day, guidance is instead provided by the Covenant of Abdu'l-Baha, which directs the believers to seek their guidance from the Guardian and the Universal House of Justice. All must seek guidance and turn unto the Center of the Cause and the House of Justice. And he that turneth unto whatsoever else is indeed in grievous error. These are the last words of the Will and Testament of Abdu'l-Baha. I understand this to clearly state that there will be no other sources of guidance during this Dispensation, other than the House of Justice and the Guardian. “As regards the meaning of the Baha'i Covenant: The Guardian considers the existence of two forms of Covenant both of which are explicitly mentioned in the literature of the Cause. First is the covenant that every prophet makes with humanity or, more definitely, with His people that they will accept and follow the coming Manifestation who will be the reappearance of His reality. The second form of Covenant is such as the one Baha'u'llah made with His people that they should accept the Master. This is merely to establish and strengthen the succession of the series of Lights that appear after every Manifestation. Under the same category falls the Covenant the Master made with the Baha'is that they should accept His administration after Him” (From a letter on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer dated October 21, 1932, US Baha'i News #80, January, 1934, pp. 5-6) In the Dispensation of Moses, the Lesser Prophets were guided by Him, i.e. by Moses. In this Dispensation, the House of Justice and Guardian are guided by both the Bab and Baha'u'llah. “The Guardian's infallibility covers interpretation of the Revealed Word and its application. Likewise any instructions he may issue having to do with the protection of the Faith, or its well being must be closely obeyed, as he is infallible in the protection of the Faith. He is assured the guidance of both Bahá'u'lláh and the Báb, as the Will and Testament of `Abdu'l-Bahá clearly reveals. (From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, August 20, 1956; Lights of Guidance, 2nd edition, p. 313, #1055) (The passage to which Shoghi Effendi refers, quoted here, also states that the Universal House of Justice is assured the guidance of both Baha'u'llah and the Bab:) /The sacred and youthful branch, the guardian of the Cause of God as well as the Universal House of Justice, to be universally elected and established, are both under the care and protection of the Abhá Beauty, under the shelter and unerring guidance of His Holiness, the Exalted One ... /(The Will and Testament of `Abdu'l-Baha, p. 11) I hope this is of service to you. Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-484149-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Resources
The Baha'i Studies Listserv The followers of Yahya did not break the Covenant of Baha'u'llah, they broke the Covenant of the Bab. Shoghi Effendi refers to Yahya as the Arch-breaker of the Covenant of the Bab around p. 164 or so of God Passes By and there lists in detail his violations of that Covenant. The Covenant of the Bab was not as clear or explicit as the Covenant of Baha'u'llah (which names Abdu'l-Baha as His Successor) or the Covenant of the Master (which names the Guardian and the House of Justice as His and Baha'u'llah's successors). Abdu'l-Baha said that there would remain a following of Azal in the future, but no followers of Mirza Muhammad Ali, who broke the Covenant of Baha'u'llah. Outside of the dwindling members of the family, I know of no followers of Mirza Muhammad Ali. Remey, Marangella, Jensen, etc. are violators of the Covenant of Abdu'l-Baha, which is a part of the Covenant of Baha'u'llah. Shoghi Effendi commends to our study the twin Covenants of Baha'u'llah and of Abdu'l-Baha in Citadel of Faith p. 76. The fundamental difference, however, between this Dispensation and all previous ones is this, that in this Revelation the possibility of permanent schism between the followers of the Prophet has been prevented through the direct and explicit instructions providing for the necessary instruments designed to maintain the organic unity of the body of the Faithful. (From a letter on behalf of Shoghi Effendi, Directives from the Guardian, p. 42) There can be no schism in the Bahá'í Faith because the Guardianship is established on an unassailable foundation, supported by a signed, sealed document -- the Will. Schism can only flourish where there is ambiguity or no specific proof. The New History Society is like a branch that has no roots, and will soon dry up and wither. It has not caused, nor can it cause, a breach among the believers. (Shoghi Effendi dated March 25, 1946, Letters from the Guardian to Australia and New Zealand, p. 60) The same is true of the House -- that its position as successor to Abdu'l-Baha is established on an unassailable foundation, supported by the same signed, sealed document -- the Will. The New History Society survived Sohrab by a few weeks, then was no more. Were anyone to imagine or expect that a Cause, comprising within its orbit so vast a portion of the globe, so turbulent in its history, so challenging in its claims, so diversified in the elements it has assimilated into its administrative structure, should, at all times, be immune to any divergence of opinion, or any defection on the part of its multitudinous followers, it would be sheer delusion, wholly unreasonable and unwarranted, even in the face of the unprecedented evidence of the miraculous power which its rise and progress have so powerfully exhibited. That such a secession, however, whether effected by those who apostatize their faith or preach heretical doctrines, should have failed, after the lapse of a century, to split in twain the entire body of the adherents of the Faith, or to create a grave, a permanent and irremediable breach in its organic structure, is a fact too eloquent for even a casual observer of the internal processes of its administrative order to either deny or ignore. Therein, every loyal and intelligent upholder of Bahá'u'lláh's incomparable Covenant -- a Covenant designed by Him as the sole refuge against schism, disruption and anarchy -- will readily recognize the hall-mark of His Faith, and will acclaim it as the supreme gift conferred by Him Who is the Lord of Revelation upon the present and future generations who are destined, in this greatest of all Dispensations, to flock, from every creed and religion, to the banner, and espouse the Cause, of His Most Great Name. (Shoghi Effendi, Messages to America, p. 50) The children of Covenant-breakers and the followers of Covenant-breakers are shunned as Covenant-breakers because they have inherited the same negative attitude towards the Center of the Covenant, whether the Covenant of Baha'u'llah or the Covenant of the Master. There are letters from the Guardian addressing this subject. They can be obtained from your Protection Board member or from a Counsellor. Instead of taking at face value the self-serving claims of Covenant-breakers as to their merits, the book Ministry of the Custodians shows that several members of the NSA of France defected. It is not that so many followed Remey; it is that they were highly-placed. The number is a literal handful, and they are listed by name in that book. Mr. Gray, you are spending a lot of time dining on poison, and you would benefit from eating some wholesome food as well. The letters of the House of Justice and other writings addressing these and a host of related subjects are found here, and deserve careful study: http://covenantstudy.org/ A number of the issues related to
Sects
The Baha'i Studies Listserv 1. On page 70 of Robert Weinberg's book Ethel Jenner Rosenberg there is a pilgrim's note that Mrs. Rosenberg asked Abdu'l-Baha about the seven churches in the Revelation of John. The Master reportedly replied that the seven spirits and seven stars in Revelation refer to the seven letters of the name of Baha'u'llah in Arabic. (In Revelation 3:12 there is a promise of the New Name; in Revelation 21:10 and 11 the new name is given.) 2. As to the notion that Baha'is should associate with the Covenant-breakers: The friends should, without too much dwelling on these negative things, be made to understand that some people are spiritually sick and that their disease is, alas, contagious. Some recover from it, as did Mr. [...] whose heart could not rest till he returned to the fold; others do not. The Master and Baha'u'llah have taught us that associating with these souls is not likely to heal them at all, but on the contrary exposes one to grave danger of contagion. The history of the Faith has proved this over and over again. The only way we can prove to such people that they are wrong is to censure their conduct; if we sympathise with them we only fortify their perversity and waywardness. (From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian dated January 23, 1945, Lights of Guidance, 2nd edition, p. 185, #609) 3. As to the slander that Shoghi Effendi was standing between Ruhiyyih Khanum and the Funds of the Baha'i Faith: If Khanum wanted his money, she would have filed a probate proceeding and claimed that all of the Baha'i Funds were now hers -- she did not, she participated in the body of the Hands of the Cause, or more correctly, the body of nine Hands acting as the corporate body The Custodians of the Baha'i World Faith receiving control of the properties and funds of the Faith, which they in turn handed over to the House of Justice 6 years later. By the time of Shoghi Effendi's passing, he had transferred most of the properties and funds of the Faith into the name of the Israel Branches of the various National Spiritual Assemblies. After his passing, the Hands were placed as trustees of these bodies. The only fund that was in Shoghi Effendi's name individually was in Switzerland, and Khanum was on it with him, and with her access to this money she provided the funds for his funeral, as she has herself explained, I believe in Volume XIII of the Baha'i World, where she speaks in detail about events after the Guardian's passing. The funds the Hands used to travel during the six years around the world to build up the National Spiritual Assemblies, were provided by Amelia Collins. Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-482468-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Sects
The Baha'i Studies Listserv The repetition of these statements made by the so-called Baha'is Under the Provisions of the Covenant, and the hurt and shock we experience as we hear them, brings something to mind. There is a story -- now I cannot find the source of it -- of the time after the Passing of Baha'u'llah when the Covenant-breakers were working against Abdu'l-Baha, but He had not yet announced it to the Baha'i world. And at that time, pilgrims would come to the Holy Land, and the Covenant-breakers would invite a new pilgrim to come to the Mansion. They would throw a feast for him, and write poetry in his honor, flatter him -- and then, gradually instill questions about the integrity of Abdu'l-Baha. One day one of the Covenant-breakers came across Abdu'l-Baha and said that they had invited one of the recent pilgrims to Bahji and were holding a Feast in his honor, and would turn him against Abdu'l-Baha. Abdu'l-Baha smiled and said that they would not get this one; that they would see that their opposition to Abdu'l-Baha would only increase this believer's devotion to the Covenant, and make his love for Abdu'l-Baha even more extreme--and this is what happened. And it seems to me that this can be our response when we hear these accusations against the Hands of the Cause, who protected the Cause of God from the forces of hatred and selfishness -- if we take it properly, it can increase our love for them, and our devotion to the Covenant. When these shocks occur, when we hear these things, they can do us no harm if we pray, and turn to the Will and Testament. They can increase our devotion. I am not recommending, to the extent of one word, that we read Covenant-breaker literature. I think that is a foolish thing to do, and that we should put lots of distance between ourselves and such material. The House has warned us in the strongest possible terms against doing so. But when it comes our way without our asking, there is a healthy response. I personally don't think that in such instances, the best response is to hush things up. Rather, the forces of unity are so strong in the Faith, the light of the Covenant is so strong, that used properly, opposition simply strengthens it. Prayer and study of the Word will use the irritant as a stimulus, and build a protection. I have written a short piece about the preposterous and remarkably flimsy accusations against the Hands http://tinyurl.com/hands-cause based on passages from The Ministry of the Custodians. The sweet-scented Hands of the Cause were as real and as true as they could be. Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-482641-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: Sects
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Marangella is just confusing things, not clarifying them. Both Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha had appointed Their Successors during Their lifetimes, by specifying them in Their Wills, but had not made their identities known, perhaps to protect their lives. However, the situation changed, and the Cause was on more secure footing, as was the society in which they lived. On page 12 of the Will, Abdu'l-Baha directs the Guardian to make known the identity of his successor Guardian, to the nine Hands of the Cause. This is why the appointment had to be made during his lifetime-- they had to vote on the successor. Putting all of this together, and making certain extrapolations, here is my personal understanding of how these provisions in the Master's Will might have been carried out had the circumstances allowed. The Guardian would select his successor, and, following the example of his Forbears, name him in writing in his own Will and Testament. He would then present his Will and Testament to the nine Hands of the Cause, who would familiarize themselves with the appearance of the Will, and give their assent to the Guardian's choice of successor. Perhaps they would all have countersigned the Will, confirming it as the Guardian's Will and Testament, and assenting to his choice of successor Guardian. After the passing of the Guardian, these Hands would then present to the Universal House of Justice and the Baha'i world, the Will and Testament of the Guardian. They would confirm that it was the same document that the Guardian had presented to them. The Universal House of Justice and the nine Hands would then present the new Guardian to the Baha'i world. These high officers who had been the closest persons to Shoghi Effendi, would be the first to turn to his successor Guardian. All of the Baha'is would be assured by this that the Guardian's will was authentic, and that that successor was the one who had actually been chosen by Shoghi Effendi. This is conjecture on my part, based on my understanding that Abdu'l-Baha put these provisions in His Will for unmistakable clarity, as safeguards to remove all doubt and place the successorship on an absolutely clear foundation. As He wrote in a passage quoted above, these provisions were so that differences would not arise. The choice of successor had to be during “his own life-time” because the Master's Will required the Guardian to provide the identity of his successor to the nine Hands of the Cause for their assent. He would be of course available to them to personally verify the authenticity of his Will and his choice of successor; so that these Hands could, in turn, provide ironclad assurance to the Baha'i world when the time came, adding their personal testimony—these most trustworthy of all the believers in the world—to the written provisions in the Guardian's Will and Testament. During the lifetime of Shoghi Effendi he did not direct the Hands of the Cause to elect nine of their members to be involved in the important work of the Guardian; nor did he identify a successor Guardian, or show a Will and Testament to anyone. There is far more to the issue than that it be during his lifetime. The successor must be a male descendant of Baha'u'llah to fill what Shoghi Effendi calls the hereditary office of the Guardianship; he must meet the spiritual qualifications; his identity must be presented to the Hands of the Cause and they must vote on it. And it seems obvious, but it has to be somebody who will uphold the Cause of God -- and Remey didn't. Mason Remey stated, as quoted in a letter from the House of Justice, that Shoghi Effendi made a great mistake by misinterpreting the Master's Will, so everything Shoghi Effendi did has to be undone, because he didn't establish the Baha'i Faith, and Remey now will. Remey worked against Shoghi Effendi, and that proves quite clearly that he was no Guardian. (And how Marangella gets around the requirement that he, Marangella must be a male descendant of Baha'u'llah is interesting to say the least.) I have addressed this in several postings on my blog: http://tinyurl.com/succession-1 Observations on Shoghi Effendi not having written a last will and testament http://tinyurl.com/succession-2 Resting on No Foundations Whatever: The Preposterous Claims of Charles Mason Remey There are others on this subject as well, listed along the right side of the blog http://bahai-covenant.blogspot.com Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-479959-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web -
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The Baha'i Studies Listserv get bahai-st 20091130 __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-474572-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Looking for a quotations from the Writings
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:38:03 -0600 From: William Heiratifar heirati...@gmail.com Subject: Looking for a quotations from the Writings --0015175cf83ad192cc047971de82 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello, I'm looking for a quotation from the writings that relates to and emphasizes the importance individuality and not needing to live up to the expectations of others or the consequences of trying to do so. 1 There is a verse from Baha'u'llah I cannot find after a quick search, and do not have time to look for, where He says something like to not be moved either by praise or by false blame. 2. The responsibilities of the members of the Spiritual Assemblies that are engaged in teaching the Cause of God in Eastern lands have been clearly laid down in the holy Texts. These bid them to work towards the improvement of morals and the spread of learning; to strive to eradicate ignorance and unenlightenment, eliminate prejudice, and reinforce the foundation of true faith in people's hearts and minds; to seek to develop self-reliance and avoidance of blind imitation; to aim to enhance the efficient management of their 348 affairs, and observe purity and refinement in all circumstances; to show their commitment to truthfulness and honesty, and their ability to conduct themselves with frankness, courage and resolution. They similarly enjoin them to lend their support to agricultural and industrial development, to consolidate the foundations of mutual assistance and co-operation, to promote the emancipation and advancement of women and support the compulsory education of both sexes, to encourage application of the principles of consultation among all classes, and to adhere in all dealings to a standard of scrupulous integrity. They further impress upon them the virtue of trustworthiness and godliness, of purity of motive, kindliness of heart, and detachment from the fetters of this material world. They call upon them so to sanctify themselves that they will rise above the corrupt and evil influences that exercise so powerful a sway over the Western world, and charge them to abide by the counsel of moderation at all times and under all conditions. They urge them to make detailed inquiry into the various branches of contemporary learning -- arts and sciences alike -- and to concentrate their attention on serving the general interests of the people; to deepen themselves by attentive study of the sacred Texts, and to apply the divine guidance they contain to the circumstances, needs and conditions of society today; to refrain from entering into the tangled affairs of political parties and to have neither concern for, nor involvement in, the controversies of politicians, the wranglings of theologians or any of the ailing social theories current amongst men. They finally exhort them to be sincerely obedient, in both thought and word, to the laws duly enacted by the government of the realm, and to distance themselves from the methods, concepts and ill-grounded arguments of extreme traditionalists and modernists alike; to accord honour, veneration and respect to -- and endorse the efforts of -- exponents of the arts and sciences, and to esteem and revere those who are possessed of extensive knowledge and scholarly erudition; to uphold the right of freedom of conscience; and to abstain from criticizing and disparaging the manners, customs and beliefs of other individuals, peoples and nations. These are among the most pressing requirements for the nations of the East. These are the basic, the binding, the inescapable responsibilities 349 of the trustees of the Merciful, the representatives of the Bahá'í communities, the members of the Spiritual Assemblies. (Letter of Shoghi Effendi 30 January 1926 to the Spiritual Assemblies throughout the East - translated from the Persian) (Compilation on Trustworthiness, The Compilation of Compilations vol II, p. 348, #2079) 3. You have complained of the unsatisfactory conditions prevailing in the ... Bahá'í Community; the Guardian is well aware of the situation of the Cause there, but is confident that whatever the nature of the obstacles that confront the Faith they will be eventually overcome. You should, under no circumstances, feel discouraged, and allow such difficulties, even though they may have resulted from the misconduct, or the lack of capacity and vision of certain members of the Community, to make you waver in your faith and basic loyalty to the Cause. Surely, the believers, no matter how qualified they may be, whether as teachers or administrators, and however high their intellectual and spiritual merits, should never be looked upon as a standard whereby to evaluate and measure the divine authority and mission of the Faith. It is to the Teachings themselves, and to the lives of the Founders of the Cause that the believers should look for their
Re: Looking for a quotations from the Writings
The Baha'i Studies Listserv The last three sentences also bear on your topic Brent Twelve hundred and seventy years have elapsed since the declaration of Muhammad, and each year unnumbered people have circumambulated the House of God [Mecca]. In the concluding year of this period He Who is Himself the Founder of the House went on pilgrimage. Great God! There was a vast concourse of pilgrims from every sect. Yet not one recognized Him, though He recognized every one of them—souls tightly held in the grasp of His former commandment. The only person who recognized Him and performed pilgrimage with Him is the one round whom revolve eight Vahids, [Quddus] in whom God hath gloried before the Concourse on high by virtue of his absolute detachment and for his being wholly devoted to the Will of God. This doth not mean that he was made the object of a special favour, nay, this is a favour which God hath vouchsafed unto all men, yet they have suffered themselves to be veiled from it. The Commentary on the Surih of Joseph had, in the first year of this Revelation, been widely distributed. Nevertheless, when the people realized that fellow supporters were not forthcoming they hesitated to accept it; while it never occurred to them that the very Qur'án whereunto unnumbered souls bear fealty today, was revealed in the midmost heart of the Arab world, yet to outward seeming for no less than seven years no one acknowledged its truth except the Commander of the Faithful [Imam Ali]—may the peace of God rest upon him—who, in response to the conclusive proofs advanced by God's supreme Testimony, recognized the Truth and did not fix his eyes on others. Thus on the Day of Resurrection God will ask everyone of his understanding and not of his following in the footsteps of others. How often a person, having inclined his ears to the holy verses, would bow down in humility and would embrace the Truth, while his leader would not do so. Thus every individual must bear his own responsibility, rather than someone else bearing it for him. The Bab, The Persian Bayán, Selections from the Writings of the Báb, p. 90) __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-474209-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Sects
The quote from the Guardian is:
The fundamental difference, however, between this Dispensation and all
previous ones is this, that in this Revelation the possibility of
permanent schism between the followers of the Prophet has been prevented
through the direct and explicit instructions providing for the necessary
instruments designed to maintain the organic unity of the body of the
Faithful.
(From a letter on behalf of Shoghi Effendi, Directives from the
Guardian, p. 42)
You can't stop people from deciding that they're the Pope, or that their
back yard is sovereign territory and they've seceded from the Union --
or that they're the true head of the Baha'i Faith. It's a free country,
and if someone wants to start a religion, there's nothing to stop them.
But what Shoghi Effendi stated, is that the Covenant (actually what he
terms the twin Covenants of Baha'u'llah and of Abdu'l-Baha Citadel of
Faith, p. 76) will prevent *permanent* schisms. These groups will
eventually die out entirely.
Brent
Original Message
Subject:Re: your command request
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 03:31:46 -0600
From: Lyris ListManager lyris-nore...@list.jccc.edu
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To: attor...@cybermesa.com
Re: your command request
get bahai-st 273136
Here is the text of Message 273136:
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 04:12:12 +
From: David Friedman david_friedman1...@hotmail.com
Subject: Sects
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I have heard it claimed that the covenant-breaker groups show the predictio=
n the Baha'i Faith would not become divided to be false. I'd like discussi=
on on what the texts actually predict. Do they actually say there will be =
no Baha'i sects? I've often known Baha'is to say that these groups aren't =
sects=2C but it seems to me going by the normal definition of the word 'sec=
t' there are Baha'i sects.
=20
Regards=2C
David
=20
_
New Windows 7: Simplify what you do everyday. Find the right PC for you.
http://windows.microsoft.com/shop=
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I have heard it claimed that the covenant-breaker groups show the predictio=
n the Baha'i Faith would not become divided to be false.nbsp=3B I'd like d=
iscussion on what the texts actually predict.nbsp=3B Do they actually say =
there will be no Baha'i sects?nbsp=3B I've often known Baha'is to say that=
these groups aren't sects=2C but it seems to me going by the normal defini=
tion of the word 'sect' there are Baha'i sects.BR
nbsp=3BBR
Regards=2CBR
DavidBR br /hr /New Windows 7:
Simplify what you do everyd=
ay. a href=3D'http://windows.microsoft.com/shop' target=3D'_new'Find the =
right PC for you./aBR
__
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Re: your command request
get bahai-st 273136
Your request produced the following results:
* Message 273136 was sent.
Re: Succession
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Gary wrote: There is a dimension to this that hasn't been brought up. If the Guardian were to nominate a successor in a Will, and this choice were then rejected by the Hands, there would be no opportunity for the deceased Guardian to nominate any other candidate... It was essential that the Guardian appoint the successor in his life-time in order to allow for a second choice. My personal reading of this, is that the Guardian would have followed the pattern of his predecessors, and named his successor Guardian in his last will and testament. The heart of Baha'u'llah's Will is His appointment of Abdu'l-Baha as His successor. The heart of Abdu'l-Baha's will is His appointment of His twin successors, the House of Justice and the Guardianship. The heart of Shoghi Effendi's will would have been the same -- designation of his successor Guardian. Since there were no candidates, he wrote no will. How could he write a will giving away his paltry possessions? The will of the Head of the Faith is not an ordinary will. He would have, during his lifetime, named his successor in his will. He would have called together the nine hands, and presented to them his will. This would avoid, after his death, any issue about the authenticity of his will, such as Ruth White raised after the passing of Abdu'l-Baha. Shoghi Effendi would also have designated his successor, and after his passing, the nine hands would present the will and say, This is the will that Shoghi Effendi showed to us. And in that will he named so-and-so as his successor Guardian, and we voted on this, and we assented to this selection during Shoghi Effendi's lifetime. And now that Shoghi Effendi has ascended to the next world, we, the nine Hands who worked most closely with him, we certify that this was his will, and we certify that this is the person whom he chose as his successor, and we are the first people to turn to and accept the new Guardian. We now present the new Guardian to you. I think all of these provisions in the Will were to remove all doubt, so the succession would move smoothly, and no one would question whether this was Shoghi Effendi's will, whether this was his successor, etc. So, the fact that Shoghi Effendi was to designate his successor during his lifetime, means that scenario to me. The false claim that Mason Remey made 50 years ago, and that his followers make today, is that Shoghi Effendi appointed Remey as his successor, hidden in one of his messages he sent out to the Baha'i world during his lifetime. They say that the function of the Hands was to search the messages of Shoghi Effendi and look for hints and suggestions. And this is what Remey based his claim on -- hints and suggestions and innuendo. However, that's not how the Covenant works. Baha'u'llah designated Abdu'l-Baha *by name*. Abdu'l-Baha wrote Shoghi Effendi's *name*, and said to turn to him. There is *nothing* in Shoghi Effendi's writings that says to turn to Remey, nothing that says Remey will be his successor Guardian -- which is pretty obvious, because Remey wasn't a member of the Holy Family. Remey had himself repeatedly stated in writing that Shoghi Effendi named no Guardian, that he named no successor, that he could not name a successor because there were no men in Baha'u'llah's family who were candidates. Two years later he changed his tune, when he decided to try to claim the Guardianship. I have written on these subjects in detail on my blog http://bahai-covenant.blogspot.com look on the right for the links about Mason Remey, and the Hands, and Shoghi Effendi not having written a will. Best regards Brent __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-435200-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Succession
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I believe that Susan is correct, there is a letter written on the Guardian's behalf that was published in US Baha'i News -- but Ocean does not include all of the years Baha'i News was published, and I don't have a copy handy. It was a letter addressed to, of all people, Rex King. My recollection of the language was that the Master in His Will could not possibly have provided for a conflict of authority, and that therefore the Hands could not over-ride the choice of successor the Guardian made. This letter raises some interesting points, among them, the method of interpretation by the Guardian. I had always thought that infallible interpretation would mean, he would look at the words in the original language, and he would be inspired as to their meaning. But this letter shows that there is something beyond that -- he also looked to the overall subject. In this case, the authority granted to the Hands could not contravene the authority given to the Guardian. The House speaks of this same principle when it urges the friends to look for the unity of meaning in the Text. I've quoted that passage below, from a letter of the House. It has to do with the subject of the Guardian not being able to over-ride the decisions of the House of Justice. This question about the nine hands not being able to veto the Guardian's choice of successor is, perhaps, an aspect of the other provisions in the Will stating that the Hands were under the direction of the Guardian, and also that all must turn to the Guardian. Also, when one thinks about it -- who are the Hands to decide who the next Guardian would be? Do they possess the insight to know who can be the standard of loyalty, who meets the moral criteria set by the Master? I agree that the Text looks plain and clear, that the Hands did have this authority. I also agree that the fact of secret ballot supports the view that they had the authority to veto the Guardian's choice of successor. However, the letter from Shoghi Effendi is clear, and states that the nine Hands could not override the Guardian's choice of successor. I have written a piece on this subject, on my blog: http://bahai-covenant.blogspot.com/ then scroll down and look on the right for Observations on Shoghi Effendi not having written a will. It also addresses the question of what in his lifetime means, and it is my personal view that it means that he would designate his successor in his will, and show the will to the nine Hands during his lifetime; and that the purpose of all of this, including the assent by the nine hands, was to provide assurance of the integrity and authenticity of the Guardian's will, and remove all doubt as to who the rightful successor was. Brent The first passage concerns the Guardian's duty to insist upon a reconsideration by his fellow-members in the Universal House of Justice of any enactment which he believes conflicts with the meaning and departs from the spirit of the Sacred Writings. The second passage concerns the infallibility of the Universal House of Justice without the Guardian, namely Shoghi Effendi's statement that Without such an institution [the Guardianship] . . . the necessary guidance to define the sphere of the legislative action of its elected representatives would be totally withdrawn. Some of the youth, you indicate, were puzzled as to how to reconcile the former of these two passages with such statements letter addressed to a new believer as that in the Will of 'Abdu'l-Bahá which affirms that the Universal House of Justice is freed from all error. Just as the Will and Testament of 'Abdu'l-Bahá does not in any way contradict the Kitáb-i-Aqdas but, in the Guardian's words, confirms, supplements, and correlates the provisions of the Aqdas, so the writings of the Guardian contradict neither the revealed Word nor the interpretations of the Master. In attempting to understand the Writings, therefore, one must first realize that there is and can be no real contradiction in them, and in the light of this we can confidently seek the unity of meaning which they contain. (Messages from the Universal House of Justice 1968-1973, p. 37; Messages 1963-1986, paragraphs 75.2, 75.3, 75.4, p. 156) __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-434462-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Clashes
Does anyone have a source/elaboration/explanation for the idea that Adam was expelled from the Garden for disagreeing with Satan? Adam has a lot of symbolic meanings in Baha'i interpretation. There is a book published by Kalimat Press of essays by Mirza Abu'l-Fazl. One of them is his interpretation of a verse from the Qur'an about the angels quarreling with Adam. Fazl hinted that it had to do with conflict in the Holy Family. So in this instance Adam signified the Center of the Covenant, and the angels meant those close to Him who wanted His position of leadership. I don't have access to my copy of that book right now; maybe someone else does. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Relativity of Truth
I didn't say what I meant very clearly. I quite agree that the relativity of religious truth is not only in the Guardian's writings, but in the Iqan and elsewhere in the Text -- and I think he's using it to mean Progressive Revelation in the fullness of that meaning as explained in the Writings. And I quite agree that for the most part, the truths we know are partial truths. Not only partial truths; and as time goes on, hopefully we learn from experience and draw closer. And in addition, the Tablet of Four Valleys is about four different kinds of seekers. People apprehend truth in entirely different ways, and one person's approach to reality may be widely different than another's, and well within the Text. Further, there's a reference to this in the Iqan: We have variously and repeatedly set forth the meaning of every theme, that perchance every soul, whether high or low, may obtain, according to his measure and capacity, his share and portion thereof. Should he be unable to comprehend a certain argument, he may, thus, by referring unto another, attain his purpose. That all sorts of men may know where to quench their thirst. (Iqan, p. 175) So there are all sorts of men. Which may be a way of saying there are all kinds of ways of approaching Truth. I just don't think that's the same thing the Guardian is talking about when he writes about the relativity of religious truth. I'd come up with a different name for that, so the two don't get confused. It may well be true that even when approaching the absolute, man can't know truth absolutely. I don't know. My point is that I would not equate that with what the Guardian is talking about when he talks about the relativity of religious truth. I agree with a lot of what you write below. I also think that maturation in spirituality is not focused so much on having the right thoughts, as it is having the right spirit, being detached from this realm, conduct in accord with the guidance in the Teachings. It encompasses the entire human being. Right beliefs is clearly a part of it; but I don't think it is all that's meant by approaching the absolute, which is more about Relationship than about being right. I can't pull my thoughts together right now, let me think about this and see if I can any more clearly see these things. Haven't had my morning coffee or Readings. Brent Sen Sonja wrote: On 26 Mar 2008 at 23:56, Brent Poirier Attorney wrote: If one takes the statement that religious truth is not absolute, but relative as a broad sweep about the nature of all Revelation, then your conclusions logically follow. But I respectfully disagree with the premise because: - It has no antecedents in the Texts - It is not found in the Iqan or in the design of the Mashriq - It is taken out of context; and when context is provided, the Guardian states plainly that he is talking about Progressive Revelation. We can agree to disagree, but it is not true that the relativity of religious truths has no antecedents in the Texts. It is only this particular formulation that is particular to Shoghi Effendi, but the concept is fundamental to much of the Writings, on various issues. - The doctrine of man (theological anthropology): What is the nature of the human being and his/her capacity to know things (ie, if there was such a thing as an absolute religious truth, would a human person be able to know it?). - The nature of religious language (metaphorical, symbolic, and multiple meanings) - perspectivism: what is true for a person at one station may not be true in another; religious truth is individually relative -- the concept of salvation: it is not an absolute, either heaven or hell, but relative: each individual grows through endless grades - the new heaven and new earth model of radical religious renewal: evolution and reform is humanly possible, but what the Manifestation brings is a total renewal, the recreation of all things, i..e, the system of religious truths is treated as a whole (truths are relative to one another) rather than treating each religious truth as a separate item to be argued individually. - progressive revelation as already discussed, but also prophetology (eg that the absolute does not incarnate itself) - the doctrine of God: all absolutes are reserved for God alone, and are said to be unknowable. This relates to the nature of religious language - statements about God (the absolute) are understood as referring in fact to a historical manifesation of God (relative) - the design of the religious community, with the Mashriq as its heart and crown. The mashriq has neither authority nor a doctrinal function, and is open to all religionists: it is an institution that does not make statements with claims that they are true, but rather opens its doors for worship. Its centrality demonstrates that correct religious statements are not where its at in the religious
Re: Relativity of Truth
Sen wrote: . . . the statement religious truth is not absolute, but relative is a meta-statement. It immediately interprets and provides a framework for all Bahai truth-statements. If a statement is absolute (When Yahya Darabi arrived at Shiraz he interviewed the Bab three times.) it is not a religious truth. This statement is history: if it turns out to be wrong, that will not have any religious significance. At most it would confirm what we already know, that not everything stated in the Bahai writings is absolutely true ! My view is that to understand what the Guardian means by the relativity of truth, we have to look at all of the passages where he made that statement. Among these passages from him we see that he wrote that the structure of the Mashriq incorporates this principle, and that it is a major theme of the Iqan. The Guardian is not bringing up some entirely new reality in the Faith; he is its Interpreter, not the Originator of new teachings. So whatever the Guardian means by this, has to have its seed in the Writings of Baha'u'llah or the Master. And we don't have to scour all of Their Writings to find what the Guardian is referring to; we can sincerely look at the structure of the Mashriq and at the text of the Iqan, and see what's there. I don't see anything about relativity in the Iqan, in any sense except that there is a succession of Prophets, and each Prophet changes the laws in accordance with the needs of His age: in all Dispensations the law of prayer hath constituted a fundamental element of the Revelation of all the Prophets of God -- a law the form and the manner of which hath been adapted to the varying requirements of every age. (Iqan, p. 39) That city is none other than the Word of God revealed in every age and dispensation. In the days of Moses it was the Pentateuch; in the days of Jesus the Gospel; in the days of Muhammad the Messenger of God the Qur'án; in this day the Bayan; and in the dispensation of Him Whom God will make manifest His own Book -- the Book unto which all the Books of former Dispensations must needs be referred. . . (Iqan, p. 199) By heaven is meant the heaven of divine Revelation, which is elevated with every Manifestation, and rent asunder with every subsequent one. By cloven asunder is meant that the former Dispensation is superseded and annulled. (Iqan, p. 44) If one takes the statement that religious truth is not absolute, but relative as a broad sweep about the nature of all Revelation, then your conclusions logically follow. But I respectfully disagree with the premise because: - It has no antecedents in the Texts - It is not found in the Iqan or in the design of the Mashriq - It is taken out of context; and when context is provided, the Guardian states plainly that he is talking about Progressive Revelation. Just my view. Best regards Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
[Fwd: [EDSED] environmental education materials for junior youth]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:27:34 -0500 Subject: [EDSED] environmental education materials for junior youth Dear friends, The National Spiritual Assembly of the Bahá'ís of the U.S. is currently reviewing environmental education programs and materials targeting junior youth (ages 12-15). The Office of External Affairs is researching what currently exists as well as any statistics or feedback on implementation. If you know of or have developed such materials or programs, we would be grateful to learn of them. Please send any information to [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] with the subject line: ENVIRONMENTAL EDUCATION. Thanks for your assistance. Warmest Bahá'í greetings, Peter Peter Adriance NGO Liaison National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of the U.S. 1320 19th St. NW, Suite 701 Washington, DC 20036 202-833-8990 tel 202-833-8988 fax _www.bahai.us/sustainable-development_ http://www.bahai.us/sustainable-development *Please consider the environment before printing this email. Thank you.* __._,_.___ Messages in this topic http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDSED/message/861;_ylc=X3oDMTMzM2tsazA4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjc0MDM1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MjEzMwRtc2dJZAM4NjEEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjA2NDU5NDQ4BHRwY0lkAzg2MQ--(1) Reply (via web post) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDSED/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwZjAybm5uBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjc0MDM1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MjEzMwRtc2dJZAM4NjEEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjA2NDU5NDQ4?act=replymessageNum=861| Start a new topic http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDSED/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcDZyOGswBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjc0MDM1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MjEzMwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEyMDY0NTk0NDg- Messages http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDSED/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJmYjFtcm0wBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjc0MDM1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MjEzMwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNtc2dzBHN0aW1lAzEyMDY0NTk0Mzg- | Files http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDSED/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJncXYyNWV1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjc0MDM1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MjEzMwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNmaWxlcwRzdGltZQMxMjA2NDU5NDM4 | Photos http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDSED/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcnJoYjBwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjc0MDM1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MjEzMwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNwaG90BHN0aW1lAzEyMDY0NTk0Mzg- | Links http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDSED/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJnNDQzY281BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjc0MDM1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MjEzMwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNsaW5rcwRzdGltZQMxMjA2NDU5NDM4 | Database http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDSED/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJkc2M4aWk4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjc0MDM1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MjEzMwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNkYgRzdGltZQMxMjA2NDU5NDM4 | Polls http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDSED/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJnNDRraGxlBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjc0MDM1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MjEzMwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNwb2xscwRzdGltZQMxMjA2NDU5NDM4 | Members http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDSED/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdm1tdWpzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjc0MDM1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MjEzMwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyMDY0NTk0Mzg- | Calendar http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDSED/calendar;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcGkzYTU1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjc0MDM1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MjEzMwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNjYWwEc3RpbWUDMTIwNjQ1OTQzOA-- So powerful is the light of unity, it can illuminate the whole earth! Visit our website at www.edsed.org Yahoo! Groups http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNmtmcjRhBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzExNjc0MDM1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MjEzMwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTIwNjQ1OTQ0OA-- Change settings via the Web http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDSED/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJnZXFyY3U5BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzExNjc0MDM1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MjEzMwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNzdG5ncwRzdGltZQMxMjA2NDU5NDQ4 (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:%20Digest | Switch format to Traditional mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:%20Traditional Visit Your Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDSED;_ylc=X3oDMTJlazBqaG1jBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzExNjc0MDM1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MjEzMwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNocGYEc3RpbWUDMTIwNjQ1OTQ0OA--| Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/| Unsubscribe mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EDSED;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdGgxNmQ4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzExNjc0MDM1BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MjEzMwRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEyMDY0NTk0Mzg- __,_._,___ The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state
Re: Relativity of Truth
Matt Haase wrote: I had a conversation like this with a friend of mine, who introduced me to his idea that the 'relativity of religious truth' meant more than another word to say 'progressive revelation'. He presented an eloquent, but unconvincing (to my mind) argument that boils down to the concept that since God is the Unknowable, whatever is said about Him in all of the Religious Scriptures is true. If the Hebrew Scriptures and the Qur'an proclain Monotheism, it is true. If the Hindu Scriptures proclaim Polytheism, it is true. If God condemns the belief in the Trinity in one scripture, it is true. But if God affirms the Trinity later on, it is true. I don't accept that kind of logic, personally. I'm with you, Matt. Whatever wacky opinions I may express, if I don't back them up with the Baha'i Writings, my listener should not attribute these statements as having any bearing whatever on what the Baha'i Faith stands for. That's why, I feel, the Guardian wrote through his secretary: Divine Truth is relative and that is why we are enjoined to constantly refer the seeker to the Word itself -- and why any explanations we make to ease the journey of the soul of any individual must be based on the Word -- and the Word alone. (From a letter dated 4 June 1957 written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to the National Spiritual Assembly of Canada; from the Compilation, The Individual and Teaching - Raising the Divine Call, p. 39) Best regards Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Relativity of truth
One of the friends mentioned: If all truth is relative then no proof is absolute. There are passages in the writings of the Guardian where he explained that what he meant by the relativity of religious truth, is that revealed truth is relative to the age in which it is revealed. That is, the Guardian used this phrase as a synonym for Progressive Revelation. For example: Repudiating the claim of any religion to be the final revelation of God to man, disclaiming finality for His own Revelation, Bahá'u'lláh inculcates the basic principle of the relativity of religious truth, the continuity of Divine Revelation, the progressiveness of religious experience. (Shoghi Effendi, The Promised Day is Come, p. 108) I think in that phrase he shows the point I am making. He also writes that the Book of Certitude asserts the relativity of religious truth, and I don't personally know of any place in that Book where Baha'u'llah speaks of truth in a relative sense, but there is an abundance of explanation of Progressive Revelation: Within a compass of two hundred pages it proclaims unequivocally the existence and oneness of a personal God, unknowable, inaccessible, the source of all Revelation, eternal, omniscient, omnipresent and almighty; asserts the relativity of religious truth and the continuity of Divine Revelation . . . (Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 139) Also, the Guardian writes that the House of Worship symbolizes the relativity of religious truth, and I don't personally know how it symbolizes truth being relative, other than as meaning Progressive Revelation: To them will the Mashriqu'l-Adhkar symbolize the fundamental verity underlying the Bahá'í Faith, that religious truth is not absolute but relative, that Divine Revelation is not final but progressive. (Shoghi Effendi, Baha'i Administration, p. 185) This is my personal understanding. Best regards, Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Relativity of truth
I don't feel it's in anyway improper to say the Guardian is drawing a logical conclusion; maybe he is. I just am unable to read his mind in that way, or draw that inference from what he has written. But that might be correct; though I still tend towards the synonym approach. This looks to me to be yet another passage where the Guardian is using the relativity of religious truth as a synonym for Progressive Revelation; that there are two aspects to Revelation -- the essence which remains unchanged from age to age, and the non-essential part of each Revelation which is subject to change in each Dispensation, as the Master explains in Some Answered Questions. I think Shoghi Effendi is referring to that principle here: The mission of the Founder of their Faith, they conceive to be to proclaim that religious truth is not absolute but relative, that Divine Revelation is continuous and progressive, that the Founders of all past religions, though different in the non-essential aspects of their teachings, 'abide in the same Tabernacle, soar in the same heaven, are seated upon the same throne, utter the same speech and proclaim the same Faith.' There are plenty of absolute statements in Baha'u'llah's Writings, though I am not sure you are saying there aren't. I don't think that the principle of the relativity of religious truth means that He is asking us to see everything He writes, through that filter. Again, I don't think that's what you're saying. It's just that when the Guardian says that the proclamation of the relativity of religious truth is the mission of Baha'u'llah; that it is a theme of the Iqan; and that it is embodied in the design of the Mashriqu'l-Adhkar; I am chary of reading too much into the word relative. It looks to me to just be saying, what a Manifestation sets as a law in this Dispensation, may be annulled in a later Dispensation. I don't personally view the principle of the relativity of religious truth as a broad statement about the nature of all truth, or even of all Revelation, but only about that part of Revelation that is subject to change by the Manifestation. Also, I don't know what you mean when you say that truths are relative to one another. If you get too philosophical, you may quickly lose me. Best regards Brent Sen Sonja wrote: On 24 Mar 2008 at 3:53, Brent Poirier Attorney wrote: There are passages in the writings of the Guardian where he explained that what he meant by the relativity of religious truth, is that revealed truth is relative to the age in which it is revealed. That is, the Guardian used this phrase as a synonym for Progressive Revelation. This is true, but I would rather say that the *logical implication* of progressive revelation is that religious truth must be relative. The Guardian is drawing a logical conclusion, rather than simply using a synonym. Having established that religious truth is relative, that conclusion has more applications: truths are relative to one another for example (when the paradigm changes, it is a switch from one coherent system of truths to another, not just a matter of this or that religious truth changing. Sen -- -- Sen McGlinn *** Let the friends recall and ever bear in mind the repeated exhortations and glowing promises of our beloved Master with reference to the Mashriqu'l-Adhkar, the crowning institution in every Baha'i community. (Shoghi Effendi, Baha'i Administration, page 108) -- The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public
Re: Joining Partners with God
It is my understanding that this phrase, joining partners with God, means making someone God's equal. In Section XCIV of the Gleanings, Baha'u'llah addresses this subject. In the Hidden Words O Companion of My Throne, I personally think it is Baha'u'llah addressing His followers. There are different ways of viewing a companion to the throne. One way would be that someone is seated on the throne with Him, but I have never viewed it this way. It can mean someone who is before His throne, submissive to Him, yet near to Him. Also, the word translated here as O companion is translated as O friend in the Book of Certitude. O friend, it behoveth us not to waive the injunction of God... Anyway, I do not personally view this use of companion to in any way imply equality; but rather, as a loving admonition to a subordinate, an encouragement intended to draw the believer closer. - On the subject of the Hidden Words, I met a woman -- Helen Bishop -- who told us in 1983 at Bosch that when she was on Pilgrimage Shoghi Effendi asked her, Mrs. Bishop, do the friends realize that the condemnations in the Hidden Words are not addressed to them? No, Shoghi Effendi, I don't think so. Then the Guardian pointed out that in the Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, Baha'u'llah quotes four of the Hidden Words and says they were addressed to the clergy of Persia: These thick clouds are the exponents of idle fancies and vain imaginings, who are none other but the divines of Persia.. . . By divines in the passage cited above is meant those men who outwardly attire themselves with the raiment of knowledge, but who inwardly are deprived therefrom. In this connection, We quote from the Tablet addressed to His Majesty the Shah, certain passages from the Hidden Words which were revealed by the Abha Pen under the name of the Book of Fatimih, the blessings of God be upon her! O ye that are foolish, yet have a name to be wise! Wherefore do ye wear the guise of the shepherd, when inwardly ye have become wolves, intent upon My flock? Ye are even as the star, which riseth ere the dawn, and which, though it seem radiant and luminous, leadeth the wayfarers of My city astray into the paths of perdition. And likewise He saith: O ye seeming fair yet inwardly foul! Ye are like clear but bitter water, which to outward seeming is crystal pure but of which, when tested by the Divine Assayer, not a drop is accepted. Yea, the sunbeam falls alike upon the dust and the mirror, yet differ they in reflection even as doth the star from the earth: nay, immeasurable is the difference! And also He saith: O essence of desire! At many a dawn have I turned from the realms of the Placeless unto thine abode, and found thee on the bed of ease busied with others than Myself. Thereupon, even as the flash of the spirit, I returned to the realms of celestial glory, and breathed it not in My retreats above unto the hosts of holiness. And again He saith: O bond slave of the world! Many a dawn hath the breeze of My loving-kindness wafted over thee and found thee upon the bed of heedlessness fast asleep. Bewailing then thy plight it returned whence it came. (Baha'u'llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, pp. 14-16) The first two of these are very similar in tone and content to Christ's condemnation of the Pharisees, see Luke Chapter 11. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Companion of My Throne
Mr. Khadem stated that Shoghi Effendi referred to the Shrine of the Bab as the throne of God mentioned in the Tablet of Carmel. In the Kitab-i-Badi, Baha'u'llah interprets the throne as the Cause of God. (Logos and Civilization p. 199) Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
TV
David wrote: I just wanted to get back to this as I was busy before. What do people consider according to the Teachings as far as TV and movies are concerned? If it means that they generally follow Baha'i morals then that would exclude a large percentage of material. I couldn't agree more. There's less and less TV worth watching. The standard is now plummeting at an increasing rate of acceleration. I often think of a dear friend pioneering in Africa, who has been absent from the United States for more than 30 years, and that she would be absolutely astounded at the trash on TV now. A few additional thoughts, on the ways different believers have come to terms in their own way with today's entertainment. I am thinking of Stan O'Jack, a wonderful soul. I remember some years ago that several of us were discussing going out to movies, and he said, I only go to G-rated movies. Period. I recall when my wife and I went to a movie with the Knight of Baha'u'llah Ted Cardell, a wonderful soul. Ted had met the Guardian, and opened more than one country in Africa 50 years ago. During the intermission they showed previews of upcoming movies, and though some of the movies were PG or R rated, the previews were all rated G for a general audience. There was a scene, I don't remember exactly what it was, it might have been a couple kissing. I looked to my left, and there was Ted, covering his eyes. He took literally Baha'u'llah's guidance guard thy eyes and he was a better man for it. In Islam there are institutions whose function it is to make pronouncements on all the questions that arise in life. Detailed pronouncements. Some scholars are people who have memorized all of these decisions from ayatollahs and others, and they go through their daily life with these pronouncements as the strictures of their conduct. But Baha'u'llah approaches things in a more mature way. We have the essential guidance from the House, and in the writings of the Guardian. And it is up to us to strive to bring the standards of Baha'u'llah into daily life. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Crucifixion of Jesus Christ
Gilberto wrote: But then does it make sense to say that they eventually crucified that divine Spirit, the Word of God? Wouldn't these terms apply to the spiritual aspect? I think that here, the Master is referring to Jesus by these terms, rather than only referring to His spiritual aspect; just as Muslims (and Baha'u'llah) often refer to Jesus as Ruhullah i.e. The Spirit. But doesn't the Quran say that Jesus, the Son of Mary was not crucified? Wouldn't this term apply to the physical part of his body? The human part? This is not the only instance in the Muslim, Jewish or Christian scriptures where an event seems to be presented physically, where the Baha'i Writings say that nonetheless, the intent is entirely spiritual. Other examples would be, Moses striking the rock in the wilderness, the brothers of Joseph appearing before Him, Jesus raising the widow's son from the dead, Jesus giving bread to His disciples after His crucifixion. All of these are presented in the Scriptures as physical events, but the Baha'i Writings give an allegorical / spiritual interpretation to them; and it is further my understanding that they never occurred in the physical sense. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Crucifixion of Jesus Christ
1. The Baha'i Writings state that Jesus was crucified: When Christ appeared, twenty centuries ago, although the Jews were eagerly awaiting His Coming, and prayed every day, with tears, saying: 'O God, hasten the Revelation of the Messiah,' yet when the Sun of Truth dawned, they denied Him and rose against Him with the greatest enmity, and eventually crucified that divine Spirit, the Word of God, and named Him Beelzebub, the evil one, as is recorded in the Gospel. (Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 44) In this wise did they object to that Sun of Truth, although that Spirit of God was indeed the One promised in the Torah. But as they did not understand the meaning of these signs, they crucified the Word of God. (Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 45) Also see chapters 6 and 21 of Some Answered Questions, in which the Master states that Jesus was crucified. Just do a word search in Ocean for crucified and there is plenty on the subject. 2. The verse in the Qur'an The Qur'an states (Rodwell translation) And for their saying, 'Verily we have slain the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, an Apostle of God' Yet they slew him not, and they crucified him not, but they had only his likeness... and they did not really slay him, but God took him up to Himself. (4:156) Muslims generally understand this verse to mean that Jesus was not crucified, that someone else (some say Judas) was crucified in His place. Juliet Thompson asked Abdu'l-Baha about this verse, and received this reply in a Tablet: In regard to the verse, which is revealed in the Koran, that His Highness, Christ, was not killed and was not crucified, by this is meant the Reality of Christ. Although they crucified this elemental body, yet the merciful reality and the heavenly existence remain eternal and undying, and it was protected from the oppression and the persecution of the enemies, for Christ is Eternal and Everlasting. How can He die? This death and crucifixion was imposed on the physical body of Christ and not upon the Spirit of Christ. (Star of the West, Vol. 2, No. 7, p. 13) Regarding your question relative to Surih 4, 156 of the `Qur'an' in which Muhammad says that the Jews did not crucify Jesus, the Christ, but one like Him; what is meant by this passage is that although the Jews succeeded in destroying the physical body of Jesus, yet they were impotent to destroy the divine reality in Him. (From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, March 19, 1938; Lights of Guidance, Page: 498 #1669) ...The crucifixion as recounted in the New Testament is correct. The meaning of the Qur'anic version is that the spirit of Christ was not crucified. There is no conflict between the two. (From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, July 14, 1943; Lights of Guidance, Page 492) There is also a Tablet from Abdu'l-Baha to Thornton Chase saying the same thing, in response to a question about the verse in the Qur'an, but I cannot find it. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Monogamy etc
1. If a person wants to know what I think of his opinion, I'll offer my own views, and my observations about where the opinion coincides with, or veers from, the Baha'i teachings as I understand them. I see that as quite different from being asked to pronounce on whether a Baha'i is permitted to hold a certain view; that is, whether an entire viewpoint is within the bounds of the Baha'i Faith. That's a much bigger pronouncement; assumes a degree of authority; and is way above my pay grade. It's a different approach, and one I won't do. Besides, the Guardian gave the duty of compliance with the beliefs of the faith to us individually to monitor for ourselves: This does not, however, mean that the absolute authority does not remain in the revealed Words. We should try and keep as near to the authority as we can and show that we are faithful to it by quoting from the Works of Bahá'u'lláh in establishing our points. To discard the authority of the revealed Words is heretic and to suppress completely individual interpretation of those Words is also bad. We should try to strike a happy medium between these two extremes. (Compilations, Principles of Bahai Administration, p. 25) The believers should be careful not to deviate, even a hair-breadth, from the Teachings. Their supreme consideration should be to safeguard the purity of the principles, tenets and laws of the Faith - Shoghi Effendi, Dawn of a New Day, p. 61 So it is a very important subject, and a personal spiritual obligation. And being asked whether I agree with a viewpoint (which I'll respond to) is different from being asked whether it's a belief a Baha'i can hold (which I don't think I'll respond to). 2. Baha'u'llah and the Guardian urged us to learn Persian and Arabic. A decade ago the House of Justice urged the Persian friends to teach Persian to their western-born children. Learning the original languages of Revelation in order to more deeply appreciate their beauty; the majesty and perfection of the Guardian's translations; to draw closer to the spirit of the Manifestation -- all of this is great. But I think we should monitor our own motives, and if there is to any degree in our motive for acquisition of these languages, either a desire to show off our knowledge, or a suspicion about whether the Guardian and the House are giving us the straight stuff, and we want to look for ourselves; then I think this is a dangerous road. Then, learning Persian and Arabic can lead to the fulfillment of the Hadith Baha'u'llah quotes in the Iqan, that knowledge is the most grievous veil between God and man. 3. The views Sen expressed about monogamy and the exception to it for a childless couple, based on an analysis of the laws of the Bab, did not directly criticize or seek to refute the pronouncements of the Guardian and the House of Justice on the subject. It entirely ignored them; they might as well not have existed. And the last words of the Master in His Will are that the source of guidance for us, till the next Manifestation, is the Guardian and the House. 4. I'd like to share a verse from Rumi that I find helpful. Iblis asked, “Can you tell a lie from the truth, you who are filled with illusion?” Muawiya answered, “The Prophet has given a clue, a touchstone to know the base coin from the true. He has said, ‘That which is false troubles the heart, but Truth brings joyous tranquility.’” Rúmí “Daylight,” p. 162 Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Questions on the Aqdas
Sen, I understood your point to be that since the Bayan permitted bigamy for a childless couple, the Baha'i Faith does also; and that the Master did not ultimately come down on the matter specifying monogamy. I may have misunderstood. I really am all in favor of analysis of the teachings and using our rational faculties. What I didn't see in your approach using the Bayan, was using the guidance of the Guardian and the House; and a conclusion that, using the Bayan, maybe there are circumstances when monogamy is not the Baha'i law. That the laws in the Bayan are closely connected with the laws in the Aqdas is clear, and is explicit in one of the quotes I provided from the House of Justice from the Introduction to the Aqdas. My personal understanding is that only when Baha'u'llah specifically endorses a law from a previous Dispensation, such as the Zakat and the Qur'an, or the Badi Calendar established by the Bab, or the specification of the Qiblih, is parsing of the specific wording from the prior Book appropriate. My impression is that Baha'u'llah's endorsement of the law of the Qiblih in the Bayan was explicit and not implicit, as was His endorsement of the Quranic law of the Zakat; and since He accepted these laws by reference, then it's appropriate to do a close analysis of the wording in the Quran and Bayan. It's further my impression that the House has always identified this in the Notes to the Aqdas where appropriate; and that for other laws of the Aqdas having Babi or Muslim antecedents what is in the Bayan and Qur'an is interesting, but not binding, and not determinative of the meaning of the verse in the Aqdas. As to the source of the provision that two witnesses must witness the marriage vow, perhaps instead of the source of this being an implicit importing of the law from the Bayan, this is an extension of the verse in the Aqdas that two reliable witnesses must witness the beginning and end of the year of patience (QA 73), and also the end of a marriage by the death of a spouse, (K67). Since Baha'u'llah also states in the Aqdas that the justness of witnesses is not dependent on their being Baha'is (QA 79), this may also be the source of the House of Justice' statement that the witnesses to a Baha'i marriage need not be Baha'is. So the law Baha'u'llah specifies for the end of the marriage is also applied to the beginning of the marriage. Maybe that's it. Brent Sen Sonja wrote: On 2 Jan 2008 at 6:23, Brent Poirier Attorney wrote: However, I have never seen either the Guardian or the House of Justice perform an analysis of the law of the Bab, to determine what the meaning of a law of Baha'u'llah was. This is a good point, but then, there are only a few places where Shoghi Effendi closely analyses texts from Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l- Baha to determine what the Bahai law is. The electoral law is one case, certainly, (Bahai Administration, p. 41) but there are not many like it. And in that case, he makes whatever he advises for the NSA subject to later review and alteration by the Universal House of Justice. The sparcity of examples of legal reasoning based on the Bayan -- or the Bahai writings -- is in part because the Guardian considered the making of Bahai laws to fall in the UHJ's sphere, not the Guardian's: Though the Guardian of the Faith has been made the permanent head of so august a body he can never, even temporarily, assume the right of exclusive legislation. (The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 149) However what about the law of the Qiblih? The law and its explanation are given in the Persian Bayan, and more briefly in the Arabic Bayan. The obligatory prayer says to turn to God and the QA explains this means the Qiblih, and the Aqdas says that after his death we should turn to the spot God has made the centre -- but what text tells us that the Qiblih is wherever the Manifestation is, during his life, and his burial place after death? Isn't it the Bayan (in Persian Bayan 5:1 for example)? It seems that Baha'u'llah, the Master, Shoghi Effendi and the UHJ all refer to the Bayan, directly or indirectly. It is true there is no extended argumentation on the point, but this is not needed: it is such a simple matter. Shoghi Effendi writes that, in the Aqdas, Baha'u'llah 'fixes the Qiblih God Passes By, p. 214). If we look for a verse in the Aqdas that says where the Qiblih is, all we find is turn your faces towards the Spot that We have ordained for you. Yet for Shoghi Effendi, this is 'fixing the Qiblih' -- and I think this is because the two texts and two systems of law are so intertwined, in Shoghi Effendi's thinking, that he sees nothing odd about saying something is in the Aqdas when in fact it is in the Bayan. This is exactly analogous to the way I read the law on monogamy: Shoghi Effendi says it is prescribed in the Aqdas, but the actual text is found in the Bayan (and it prescribes monogamy
Questions on the Aqdas
There is one law of Baha'u'llah which refers back to the Qur'anic law. In the Tablet of Questions and Answers Baha'u'llah writes: And in the matter of Zakat, We have likewise decreed that you should follow what hath been revealed in the Qur'án. (Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 140) However, as the House of Justice points out in Note 161 to the Aqdas: Since such issues as the limits for exemption, the categories of income concerned, the frequency of payments, and the scale of rates for the various categories of Zakat are not mentioned in the Qur'án, these matters will have to be set forth in the future by the Universal House of Justice. (Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 234) That is, those matters the House mentions are gaps in the law of the Qur'an which were filled by statements in the Hadith and by principles of Islamic jurisprudence enunciated by Muslim scholars (differently by Shi'ah and Sunni in some respects). The House of course does not indicate that it will to any degree be bound by or guided by the opinions of those scholars, but will itself make the deductions it is guided to make in those areas of exemption, categories of income, etc. There are a few places where Baha'u'llah says expressly that a law He has revealed is as specified in the Bayan. For example, in verse 137 of the Aqdas (also see Note 7) Baha'u'llah endorses the Bab's selection of the Qiblih. During the lifetime of the Manifestation, He was Himself the Qiblih, and His resting-place is ordained after His passing. There are instances in Baha'i history of believers attaining the presence of Baha'u'llah in His tent, and they circumambulated the tent. Anyway, there are many more laws of the Aqdas which have their antecedents in the laws of the Bab. In the Notes to the Aqdas, the House of Justice states that Baha'u'llah's laws of the dowry, non-use of pulpits, and exemption from prayer and fasting have their antecedents in the laws of the Bab, and that certain aspects of the Baha'i law of ablutions have antecedents in the Qur'an and the laws of the Bab. There are many other examples of Baha'u'llah's laws which have antecedents in the laws of the Bab, because the Bab revealed many laws, not so that His followers would follow them (His Dispensation being so brief), but so that Baha'u'llah would not need to trouble Himself revealing laws; He could instead endorse or somewhat modify laws of the Bab, and there are various instances of this. However, I have never seen either the Guardian or the House of Justice perform an analysis of the law of the Bab, to determine what the meaning of a law of Baha'u'llah was. While there are several instances where the House or the Guardian refers to the fact that there are antecedents in the Arabic or Persian Bayan, I cannot identify a case where the application or meaning of one of Baha'u'llahs laws is determined by a close analysis of a law by the Bab. Rather, they rely on the text of the revealed verse, plus the interpretations by the Master. I do not personally think, for example, that the provision in the Bayan regarding bigamy in the case of a childless couple is brought forward into the Baha'i Dispensation. I think that despite the Tablets Sen has quoted from the Master, the entire issue of bigamy is settled by the Guardian's statement that the Aqdas prescribes monogamy, and the House's statement in the Note 89 to the Aqdas: While the text of the Kitáb-i-Aqdas appears to permit bigamy, Bahá'u'lláh counsels that tranquillity and contentment derive from monogamy. In another Tablet, He underlines the importance of the individual's acting in such a way as to bring comfort to himself and to his partner. Abdu'l-Bahá, the authorized Interpreter of the Bahá'í Writings, states that in the text of the Aqdas monogamy is in effect enjoined. He elaborates this theme in a number of Tablets, including the following: 'Know thou that polygamy is not permitted under the law of God, for contentment with one wife hath been clearly stipulated. Taking a second wife is made dependent upon equity and justice being upheld between the two wives, under all conditions. However, observance of justice and equity towards two wives is utterly impossible. The fact that bigamy has been made dependent upon an impossible condition is clear proof of its absolute prohibition. Therefore it is not permissible for a man to have more than one wife.' Polygamy is a very ancient practice among the majority of humanity. The introduction of monogamy has been only gradually accomplished by the Manifestations of God. Jesus, for example, did not prohibit polygamy, but abolished divorce except in the case of fornication; Muhammad limited the number of wives to four, but making plurality of wives contingent on justice, and reintroducing permission for divorce; Bahá'u'lláh, Who was revealing His Teachings in the milieu of a Muslim society, introduced the question of monogamy gradually in accordance with the
Questions on the Aqdas
I suggest that we may make assumptions about what Most Holy means. That is, that it is supposed to create a spiritual atmosphere upon our reading it. Or, that it is more spiritual than His other Writings; but how could that be? All of His Writings come from the same Source. Personally I feel that the Aqdas is designated as the Most Holy Book because of its future effect on the world; that we can't determine its uniqueness by our reading it. It will take its application to see that. The Guardian wrote through his secretary: He does not ask us to follow Him blindly; as He says in one of His Tablets, God had endowed man with a mind to operate as a torchlight and guide him to truth. Read His words, consider His teachings, and measure their value in the light of contemporary problems and the truth will surely be revealed to you (26 February 1933 to an individual believer, published in Bahá'í News 80 (January 1934), p. 5; The Compilation of Compilations vol. I, p. 217, #470) That is, the proof is not merely in our mental evaluation of His Teachings, but in applying them to the problems of the world. Baha'u'llah is the Divine Physician. He looked at our personal spiritual problems, our families in disarray, our ineffective governments and economic systems, and He prescribed -- the Obligatory Prayers, the Huquq, the Houses of Justice, and so on. Though these are not confrontative approaches, though they may not bear the signs of modern-day remedies, when considered carefully, they address today's problems at their roots. So I suggest trying to approach the Aqdas in that way. Also, the laws are best understood not by reading them, but by carrying them out. As the Guardian's secretary wrote: The Guardian particularly appreciates the fact that you have been faithfully observing Bahá'u'lláh's injunction regarding the recital of the daily obligatory prayers, and have thereby set such a high example before your Bahá'í fellow-youth. These daily prayers have been endowed with a special potency which only those who regularly recite them can adequately appreciate. (23 February 1939 to two believers) (Compilations, The Compilation of Compilations vol II, p. 240) That is, the laws can only be fully appreciated when carried out; that's how to evaluate them. However, for proofs, I suggest a different Book -- the Iqan. He revealed it to bestow certitude on the reader. Also as regards proofs I suggest reading the Master's comments on pages 368 and 369 of Baha'i World Faith (if using Ocean, do a word search for rosy) As to the lack of a central theme to the Aqdas, Shoghi Effendi pointed out: All Divine Revelation seems to have been thrown out in flashes. The Prophets never composed treatises. That is why in the Qur'án and our own Writings different subjects are so often included in one Tablet. It pulsates, so to speak. That is why it is 'Revelation'. (From a letter on behalf of Shoghi Effendi, The Unfolding Destiny of the British Baha'i Community, p. 453) Not all of the divine laws were revealed so that they would be carried out by the believers. With respect to the laws of the Bab, the Guardian has written that they were revealed to create a tumult, to confront the orthodox religious powers, and to demonstrate the independent nature of the revelation of the Bab. The severe laws and injunctions revealed by the Báb can be properly appreciated and understood only when interpreted in the light of His own statements regarding the nature, purpose and character of His own Dispensation. As these statements clearly reveal, the Bábí Dispensation was essentially in the nature of a religious and indeed social revolution, and its duration had therefore to be short, but full of tragic events, of sweeping and drastic reforms. These drastic measures enforced by the Báb and His followers were taken with the view of undermining the very foundations of Shí'ah orthodoxy, and thus paving the way for the coming of Bahá'u'lláh. To assert the independence of the new Dispensation, and to prepare also the ground for the approaching Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, the Báb had therefore to reveal very severe laws, even though most of them were never enforced. But the mere fact that He revealed them was in itself a proof of the independent character of His Dispensation and was sufficient to create such widespread agitation, and excite such opposition on the part of the clergy that led them to cause His eventual martyrdom. (Shoghi Effendi, Messages to the Indian Subcontinent, p. 179) Likewise the Master pointed out that the laws of intestate succession were revealed as an encouragement to the believers to write a will, or else their estates would be distributed in that way; and He also wrote that the Divine Law permitting polygamy but conditioned upon justice -- an impossible condition -- proves that this was actually intended as a law requiring monogamy. So the
Re: Majority
In my view, for Assembly meetings to be properly held, not only should every Assembly member be informed of the date and time of the meeting, but of the agenda, and with sufficient detail to know what is coming up. The quote from the House implies this -- that a draft of the agenda is to be sent to all LSA members a few days before the meeting. In the world at large, before meetings of nonprofits are held, the full agenda is sent out so that everyone knows, and this is proper, and I think a good practice, and would avoid the situation David described. Brent The Agenda is usually prepared by the Secretary, sometimes in consultation with the Chairman or other member or members of the National Spiritual Assembly. Immediately after a Spiritual Assembly meeting, all items not cleared should be transferred to a new draft Agenda in preparation for the next meeting. Then, as each new matter arises, it should be entered under the appropriate heading. In this way the Agenda can be built up gradually. A few days before the Assembly meeting, the completed draft could be duplicated for the members. At the beginning of each meeting, any additional urgent items which have developed or items which individual members wish to raise can be added. The Universal House of Justice, in A Suggested Guide for National Secretaries enclosed with a letter dated May 4, 1972 The agenda should be reviewed and agreed upon by the entire Assembly at the beginning of each meeting, at which time additions and deletions can be made. The Assembly should agree upon which items of business have priority. (US NSA) From Developing Distinctive Baha'i Communities the US LSA handbook The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Met the Master
I know of two other people who are still alive who met the Master. I heard of a woman living in Turkey who met the Master, though I have no information at all about her -- where she is, where she met Him, her name, etc. About 3 or 4 years ago I was in touch with the family of a Christian woman living in a nursing home in Chicago. She was the daughter of a Russian man who emigrated, a Templar, who was appointed the honorary American consul and lived in Haifa. She had a photo, and I saw a copy of a copy of a copy of it, more like a silhouette, clearly the Master seated in a chair in front of a window with two little girls on each arm of the chair, the woman was one of those girls. She may still be alive. I contacted Roger Dahl the US Archivist and he said that some years earlier he had interviewed the lady. I do not know if anyone is keeping track of the few people still alive with memories of the Master. Since He passed nearly 86 years ago, and since the person would need to have been 7 years old or so to have cogent memories, that makes them all in their 90s, so there can't be many. On a different subject -- does anyone here have any information about the visits of any of the Hands of the Cause to the Navajo Reservation, or know anyone who does? Thank you Brent attorney at newmexico dot com The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Infallibility of the Prophets
There are several references in the Baha'i Writings stating that the Master says there are two Davids in the Bible. It could be found easily in Ocean. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
How to modify a business law course -- off topic
This is not on a Baha'i subject. It has to do with teaching a college course, and I'm writing because I know there are college profs on this list. I am teaching an online class in business law at NMSU. In my own legal education, I was furious because I didn't learn anything practical (didn't see a will, a trust, a deed, a promissory note, or a single page of a pleading during any law school class). Law school prepared me to take the bar exam, not to serve clients. I vowed that if I ever taught a law class, I'd do it differently. I taught business law at NMSU last year, and have been invited to do so again this autumn. Last year I came up with the idea of requiring every student to prepare a project. The project was to locate and fill out all of the forms that would be needed for them to start a business -- leases, licenses, tax forms, mortgages, promissory notes, contracts, you name it. I didn't ask for any real information, such as financials -- they were to make up all such personal data. I wanted them to understand that in the real world, nobody would give them a multiple-choice exam. They would need to know what legal forms to use for what purpose, how to prepare them, and when to call on an attorney. I wanted them to get over their fear of legalities in the classroom, so they would be more calm in the real world as businesspeople. At first the students raised absolute Cain about this project. However, the great majority of them later said that it was the most valuable part of the course. I said that in a few years when they were in business for themselves, they would see the real benefit of the course. I felt I had done right by them. I then explained this to my Department Head, who was a very skilled practicing attorney before entering academia, expecting praise. Instead, her reply was, What does this have to do with the purpose of the course? She then lost me in a discussion of measurable outputs. Apparently, the accreditation bodies require that faculty devise a way of verifying, during the course and not two years later when the students are businesspeople, whether the students have gained the competencies the course was supposed to provide. The textbook is a combination of an abbreviated law school case book, with pretty good explanations of the various legal matters to be covered. However, it's not practical and real-world enough for me. I want the students to sweat a bit, to go on to the websites of government agencies and see exactly what is going to be needed for them to function in the business law environment. To some degree the forms are practical applications of the laws they learned about in the textbook. But, the university has to ensure that its accreditation is secure, so these ^**$$#?@@!! measurable outputs must be satisfied. Any suggestions off-list, as to how I can modify my approach so the business school doesn't get de-certified, without selling my soul. Thanks Brent [EMAIL PROTECTED] The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Prayer by the Beloved Guardian found in a prayerbook Nasaimu'r-Rahman
Shoghi Effendi wrote a beautiful prayer in Persian, enclosed with his Naw-Ruz letter to the Persian friends in I believe 1955, which the House of Justice translated for Mr. Khadem's article about the Mountain of God which was published in the U.S. Baha'i News more than 30 years ago. It is published in Mrs. Khadem's book about Mr. Khadem, a wonderful book, and valuable reading before going on pilgrimage. http://www.bahaibookstore.com/productdetails.cfm?PC=5736 Here is the translation of the Guardian's prayer. Brent This magnificent Edifice stands facing Baha'u'llah's Most Great Prison, extolled by the Pen of Glory as the Heaven of heavens, and looks toward the Qiblih of the people of Baha, that Spot within the Vale of Security and Peace, the Plain of `Akka, round which circle in adoration the Concourse on high. To her right are the hills of Galilee in which nestles the childhood home of the beautiful Christ, and the locality by the banks of the Jordan River where He who is the Spirit [Jesus] was called to prophethood; and on her left, on the crest of Carmel, are to be found the Cave of Elijah and the exalted Spot which was blessed by the footsteps of the Most Holy Abha Beauty and was ennobled through the revelation of the Tablet of Carmel from the treasury of the Pen of Glory High, immeasurably high is this Shrine, the lofty, the most great, the most wondrous. Exalted, immeasurably exalted is this Resting-place, the fragrant, the pure, the luminous, the transcendent. Glorified, immeasurably glorified is this Spot, the most august, the most holy, the most blessed, the most sublime Upon thee, O Queen of Carmel, be the purest, the most tender salutations, the fairest, the most gracious blessings! Glorified is He Whose footsteps have ennobled the spot whereon thou standest, Who ordained thy Seat, and Who extolled thee in His Tablet and Book. How great is the potency of thy might, a might which has bewildered the souls of the favored ones of God and His Messengers. Methinks I behold thee in my dreams established upon thy glorious throne, attired in thy white raiment, crowned with thy golden crown, resplendent with the lights shining within thee and around thee, calling aloud in ringing tones and raising thy voice between earth and heaven. Methinks I perceive the souls of the holy ones and of the dwellers of the realms above hastening toward thee with utmost joy, eagerness and ecstasy, pointing to thee, circling round thee, inhaling the perfume of thy flowers and roses, seeking blessing from the earth of thy precincts, bowing their foreheads to the ground before thee in recognition of the majesty and glory which surround the Holy Dust reposing within thee, the Pearl which is enshrined in thy bosom. Blessed, immeasurably blessed is the person who visits thee and circles around thee, who serves at thy threshold, waters thy flowers, inhales the fragrance of holiness from thy roses, celebrates thy praise and glorifies thy station for the love of God, thy Creator, in this hallowed and radiant, this great, august and wondrous age. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: Haifa gardens: Cost and utility?
My view: 1. Because the Manifestations of God deserve it. In the Third Chapter of the Gospel of John it states: Then took Mary a pound of very costly oil of spikenard, anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped His feet with her hair. And the house was filled with the fragrance of the oil. But one of His disciples, Judas Iscariot . . . said 'Why was this fragrant oil not sold for three hundred denarii [a man's wage for a year's work] and given to the poor?' . . . But Jesus said, 'Let her alone, she has kept this for the day of My burial. For the poor you have with you always, but Me you do not have always.' Jesus, who was poor and who was devoted to the poor, did not say, This is a sacrament. Once a year take oil of spikenard and anoint each other's feet. Rather, He reserved this act for Himself. It was a sign of His sovereignty. He deserved the best. The same is true for the Shrines of the Manifestations in this Day. As the Bab Himself wrote, Everything must be brought to its utmost limit of perfection... And anyone who has the power to perfect a thing and does not do so is culpable. Everyone is bound to do everything in the most perfect way. For instance, it is very bad to begin to build a house and then not finish it in the most perfect way of which it is capable, for then it cries out to God for a curse on the maker who has failed to perfect it. (The Persian Bayan, pp. 355 and 376, Selections from the Writings of E.G. Browne) If a house for humans should be built to perfection, how much more the Tomb of Him acclaimed by Bahá'u'lláh as the Essence of Essences, the Sea of Seas, the Point round Whom the realities of the Prophets and Messengers revolve, from Whom God hath caused to proceed the knowledge of all that was and shall be, Whose rank excelleth that of all the Prophets, and Whose Revelation transcendeth the comprehension and understanding of all their chosen ones, had delivered His Message and discharged His mission. He Who was, in the words of 'Abdu'l-Bahá, the Morn of Truth and Harbinger of the Most Great Light, Whose advent at once signalized the termination of the Prophetic Cycle and the inception of the Cycle of Fulfillment, . . . He, as affirmed by Himself, the Primal Point from which have been generated all created things, one of the sustaining pillars of the Primal Word of God, the Mystic Fane, the Great Announcement, the Flame of that supernal Light that glowed upon Sinai, the Remembrance of God concerning Whom a separate Covenant hath been established with each and every Prophet. . . He the Qá'im (He Who ariseth) promised to the Shí'ahs, the Mihdi (One Who is guided) awaited by the Sunnis, the Return of John the Baptist expected by the Christians, the Ushidar-Mah referred to in the Zoroastrian scriptures, the Return of Elijah anticipated by the Jews, Whose Revelation was to show forth the signs and tokens of all the Prophets, Who was to manifest the perfection of Moses, the radiance of Jesus and the patience of Job . . . The Second Woe, spoken of in the Apocalypse of St. John the Divine. . . and the first of the two Messengers, Whose appearance had been prophesied in the Qur'án. . . The first Trumpet-Blast, destined to smite the earth with extermination, announced in the latter Book, had finally been sounded. . . . The time of the end had been ushered in, and the first of the two Witnesses into Whom, after three days and a half the Spirit of Life from God would enter, had arisen and had ascended up to heaven in a cloud. . . . The Man Child, mentioned in the Book of Revelation . . . (Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 58) 2. Because of the spiritual impact it has on pilgrims Pilgrims are described by the Guardian as the lifeblood of the Cause. The sanctity of the experience they have is very important not only to their own spiritual lives, but to the advancement of the Faith, and to the aims of the Faith. The beauty, elegance and refinement of the terraces and gardens attracts the pilgrims to holiness, and a holy life is one of the keys to the advancement of the Cause (The Advent of Divine Justice, p. 29). God is extravagant in the beauty with which He endows the least of His creatures. So the divine way is to make the Baha'i World Centre as beautiful as humanly possible. 3. Because the beauty attracts the people to the Teachings More than 90% of the people of Israel, in a survey, said that they intended at some point in time to visit the Baha'i Gardens. The Palestinians came too, they helped to build these terraces. The Arab population of Israel loves the gardens; they come and take their wedding photos there. As the beauty of the flower attracts the insect to propagate the pollen, so the beauty of the Shrines and the gardens attracts the people to the Call of God. Everyone who enters these places is given an introductory pamphlet, describing the Teachings, with quotations. Do you think that
Re: to say the truth
It is almost impossible to say the truth everytime There is the guidance in this Tablet from the Master that impacts on what can be said. Brent 'Not everything that a man knoweth can be disclosed, nor can everything that he can disclose be regarded as timely, nor can every timely utterance be considered as suited to the capacity of those who hear it.' Such is the consummate wisdom to be observed in thy pursuits. Be not oblivious thereof, if thou wishest to be a man of action under all conditions. (Compilation, The Individual and Teaching - Raising the Divine Call, p. 13) The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Subject: baha'i principles
Husayn, I think that is a very good list, very complete. However, I wish to suggest that listing these principles of the Faith still does not give an accurate picture of what the Baha'i Faith is about. In particular, these principles, which are mostly social principles, do not speak of the relationship between the human being and God. The central purpose of life is to know God -- at least, that's Baha'u'llah's statement in the Short Obligatory Prayer. Similarly, the very first passage in the Gleanings states that the purpose of man is to know God, and that this is attained by knowledge of one's true self. This divine relationship is at the heart of the Baha'i Faith, like all the divine revelations. Focusing on the principles you listed leaves this core element out of the picture, and this can give the wrong impression about the true nature of the Baha'i Revelation and the practice of the Faith. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Passing of our brother Phil Lucas
I have learned that following triple bypass surgery, Phil Lucas died earlier today. God reward him for his services. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Status of Promulgation
A point of clarification on this: This idea is from a passage in Promulgation of Universal Peace. The talks in that book are not authenticated, so we cannot be sure exactly what Abdu'l Baha said. I wouldn't put too much weight on a statement from non-authenticated texts. The Guardian quotes a number of times from Promulgation in his letters and in God Passes By. He does not regard it as unreliable. The House includes quotes from Promulgation in any number of the compilations on various subjects it has prepared. In a letter written on behalf of the House on the authenticity of various books, it is implied that some of the talks in Promulgation are not authenticated and some are: Regarding the status of Abdu'l-Baha's talks published in The Promulgation of Universal Peace and Paris Talks, original Persian transcripts of some, but not all, of the talks are available. We provide the following extract from a letter written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice which indicates that in the future each talk will have to be identified and those which are unauthenticated will have to be clearly distinguished from those which form a part of Baha'i Scripture: The original of Some Answered Questions in Persian is preserved in the Holy Land; its text was read in full and corrected by Abdu'l-Baha Himself. Unfortunately, Abdu'l-Baha did not read and authenticate all transcripts of His other talks, some of which have been translated into various languages and published. For many of His addresses included in The Promulgation of Universal Peace and Paris Talks, for example, no original authenticated text has yet been found. However, the Guardian allowed such compilations to continue to be used by the friends. In the future each talk will have to be identified and those which are unauthenticated will have to be clearly distinguished from those which form a part of Baha'i Scripture. This does not mean that the unauthenticated talks will have to cease to be used -- merely that the degree of authenticity of every document will have to be known and understood. (23 March 1987) Memo from the Research Department quoting a letter written on behalf of the House http://bahai-library.com/uhj/authenticity.texts.html Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
re: When thou reachest the threshold of the Beloved say Aye'
In the Qur'an when God calls out, the true believer answers affirmatively Yea or Aye. Amin Banani told me that this verse: For there neither 'salam' nor 'alayk' can find a way. means -- This is not a place for ordinary greetings. Then it says to take off your shoes, for this is the valley of Towa. That is, treat this spot as Moses treated the spot where He spoke to God. This is the same as the inscription in the Dawn-breakers. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Sale of cigarettes
The US balance of trade is at the highest unfavorable level in history. So the US government agencies assist the largest exporters to sell their products overseas, because it has a crucial beneficial economic impact on the US balance of trade. Among the corporations that have the most substantial favorable impact on the balance of trade, are the cigarette companies. They export vast sums of cigarettes around the world. Far from outlawing their sale, the US Dept of Commerce encourages and facilitates their sale through trade conferences and export promotion services. So we have the spectacle (because of lawsuits) of US cigarette manufacturers running ads on American television directly discouraging smoking among young people. So this assuages the consciences of the American people, and cuts down on the lawsuits in American courts. Yet these same cigarette companies have huge foreign advertising campaigns designed to get many millions of young people around the world addicted to cigarette smoking, particularly in developing countries where they are the most vulnerable to the sophisticated advertising. It is a moral crime of huge magnitude. This is my understanding and my personal opinion. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Resurrection of Christ
Yes Susan, I am in agreement that visions are not accepted as physical matter. Was it not the misinterpreted seeing of Him that was understood to be a physical body resurrected, rather than the spiritual vision of spiritual matter? There are three kinds of seeing -- seeing a person in the physical sense, with physical eyes -- seeing a vision -- seeing meaning faith, meaning recognition of the station of the Manifestation. It is this third kind that is referred to when Christ says The people have eyes, but do not see. Blessed are your eyes for they see. This seeing and these eyes are not the physical eyes, and not seeing a vision. It means perception. (Respectfully, I personally do not see support in the Baha'i Writings for the appearances of Christ being visions of spiritual matter.) And in the Gospels, sometimes this third kind of seeing or recognition is referred to as recognition, as in the verse just quoted. However, sometimes it is symbolically represented, by depicting a believer who sees Jesus, but does not recognize Him. This is presented as a physical thing, that the believer physically sees Jesus, but does not physically recognize Him. The Guardian says these should be understood allegorically; though the text of the Gospel gives no hint that it should be understood allegorically; presenting it as a physical event. So, the Gospel says that Mary Magdalene saw Jesus in the garden, but didn't recognize Him; and the disciples on the road to Emmaus saw him but their eyes were holden and they did not recognize Him until He gave them bread. Then their eyes were opened and they recognized Him. In the paper I wrote, The Kitab-i-Iqan, the Key to Unsealing the Mysteries of the Holy Bible I go into this more fully, with more Bible quotations. http://bahai-library.com/?file=poirier_iqan_unsealing_bible For me, the key to understanding this is this letter on behalf of Shoghi Effendi: We do not believe that there was a bodily resurrection after the crucifixion of Christ, but that there was a time after His ascension when His disciples perceived spiritually His true greatness and realized He was eternal in being. This is what has been reported symbolically in the New Testament and been misunderstood. His eating with His disciples after resurrection is the same thing. From a letter on behalf of the Guardian, High Endeavours pp. 69-70, Lights of Guidance, 2nd Edition, p. 368 The only way that the disciples spiritually recognizing Jesus can be the same thing as eating with Him, is if the seeing and the eating are understood symbolically; such as when the disciples ate with Jesus after His resurrection, and recognized Him after they ate bread, and Mary told them what she had seen. And this is why the times when people saw Jesus after His crucifixion and resurrection, were all appearances to believers: This is because these were not appearances in the physical sense of the word; nor were these visions. Rather, these are allegorical depictions of these believers regaining their faith and steadfastness, realizing the eternity of Christ, and seeing Him in that sense. In that sense, a non-believer could not see Jesus, by definition, because a person who sees Jesus means a person who believes in Him; and that is why the Bible contains no such reference. These are the appearances of Christ after His resurrection -- all to believers, which I copied from a study Bible: To Mary Magdalene (Matthew 16:9, John 20:11-18); To other women believers (Matthew 28:9-10); To two disciples on the road to Emmaus (Luke 24:13-35); To Peter (Luke 24:34); To ten disciples (John 20:19-25); To eleven disciples (John 20:26); To the Apostles at the Sea of Tiberias (John 21:1-25); The great commission to the disciples at Galilee (Matthew 28:16-20); To five hundred believers (1 Corinthians 15:6); To all the apostles (Acts 1:4-11); To James (1 Corinthians 15:7); To Paul (Acts 9:3-6, 1 Corinthians 15:8); To John (Revelation 1:10-18). Again, these appearances were neither physical events nor visions. This, according to the quote from Shoghi Effendi above, means that these people perceived spiritually His true greatness and realized He was eternal in being. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
Re: Resurrection of Christ
why don't the resurrection narratives have the disciples going deaf and blind after Jesus died and then receiving sight and hearing? Shouldn't there be some consistency? Also, why aren't there any stories of the disciples being deaf and blind initially? I suggest that these are the verses being referred to. After the crucifixion, Mary Magdalene went to the garden and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. (John 20:14) She thought Him to be the gardener. That is, she saw Him but did not recognize Him. Then in John 20:16 and 20:18 Mary recognizes her Lord and realizes He is eternal in being. She returns and tells the disciples, and they see Him (John 20:20). Also after the crucifixion, two believers were walking on the road to Emmaus; suddenly Jesus was walking with them, but they did not recognize Him. Then they ate bread and their eyes were opened and they recognized Him: And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them. But their eyes were held that they should not know him And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. And their eyes were opened, and they knew him... Luke 24:13-31 Also in Luke Chapter 24 verses 39-44, the disciples eat bread with Jesus and believe in Him. Likewise during the days of Joseph there was a famine in the land of Canaan and the brothers of Joseph came to Him for food (Genesis 42:5). And Joseph saw his brethren, and he knew them, but made himself strange unto them, and spake roughly unto them; and he said unto them, 'Whence came ye?' And they said, 'From the land of Canaan to buy food.' And Joseph knew his brethren, but they knew not him. Joseph then gave them bread, and revealed Himself to His brothers, saying There will I nourish thee... And, behold, your eyes see. (Genesis 45:11-12). I have some notes on this at: http://bahai-library.com/?file=poirier_iqan_unsealing_bible that you may find useful. Use them as you wish. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Spirituality
One can only hope those teenagers are looking for what we were looking for 4 decades ago. Meaning! Genuine spirituality. A sense of the mystic. None of which is really to be found in the world our generation has build. I am not very quick to elevate our generation to a more spiritual status than the one before us, or the one after us. As a quick observation, we seem more satisfied with a coherent belief system; kids want action. The kids today seem more ensnared by peer pressure, but maybe that is not true either. Our generation planted the seeds for the nihilism of today. I for sure would not want to be a high school or college kid trying to see my way through these times. Also, as far as our generation being genuinely spiritual -- how many found their way to Baha'u'llah? So can our generation be called so spiritual? Each generation seems to have its own few qualities that it deems the most important in character; they are different each generation, but they all seem to be a small selection from the array of qualities which Baha'u'llah calls us to. We claim to be more peace oriented, but a lot of that comes from the foundation laid by our parents. In general I think that our parents, individually and as a generation, had our generation in mind when they took collective steps like creating and paying for a system of higher education, creating the UN. Our generation has its virtues, but so do the others. Ours just fit like an old sweater and seem more comfortable to us. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
All are the leaves of one tree...
There is a similar passage, but not identical, in Promulgation. Otherwise, I have no idea where the verse in question may have come from. The standards for inclusion were apparently not very clear in Baha'i Scriptures. Brent Other wars are caused by purely imaginary racial differences; for humanity is one kind, one race and progeny, inhabiting the same globe. In the creative plan there is no racial distinction and separation such as Frenchman, Englishman, American, German, Italian or Spaniard; all belong to one household. These boundaries and distinctions are human and artificial, not natural and original. All mankind are the fruits of one tree, flowers of the same garden, waves of one sea. In the animal kingdom no such distinction and separation are observed. (Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 118) Here is the text of Message 157007: Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2006 21:00:01 - From: Larry Marquardt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: All are the leaves of one tree... Regarding this verse, There is no difference as regards creation and kind; all belong to one household; all are the leaves of one tree; all are the fruits of one branch; all are the flowers of the same garden; all are the waves of the same sea. (Compilations, Baha'i Scriptures, p. 313) Paragraph #633. Does anyone know the source of this verse? Is this from a talk/tablet by 'Abdul-Baha? Are these the actual words of 'Abdul-Baha? Thank you, Larry The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Emphasis
The question was recently asked by Gilberto, what Baha'i teachings are emphasized. I have done a brief scan of Ocean and found these quotes; far from a complete list. Brent The virtues and attributes pertaining unto God are all evident and manifest, and have been mentioned and described in all the heavenly Books. Among them are trustworthiness, truthfulness, purity of heart while communing with God, forbearance, resignation to whatever the Almighty hath decreed, contentment with the things His Will hath provided, patience, nay, thankfulness in the midst of tribulation, and complete reliance, in all circumstances, upon Him. These rank, according to the estimate of God, among the highest and most laudable of all acts. All other acts are, and will ever remain, secondary and subordinate unto them... (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 290) So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth. The one true God, He Who knoweth all things, Himself testifieth to the truth of these words. Exert yourselves that ye may attain this transcendent and most sublime station, the station that can ensure the protection and security of all mankind. This goal excelleth every other goal, and this aspiration is the monarch of all aspirations. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 288) One righteous act is endowed with a potency that can so elevate the dust as to cause it to pass beyond the heaven of heavens. It can tear every bond asunder, and hath the power to restore the force that hath spent itself and vanished... (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 286) The first and foremost duty prescribed unto men, next to the recognition of Him Who is the Eternal Truth, is the duty of steadfastness in His Cause. Cleave thou unto it, and be of them whose minds are firmly fixed and grounded in God. No act, however meritorious, did or can ever compare unto it. It is the king of all acts, and to this thy Lord, the All-Highest, the Most Powerful, will testify (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 289) The spirit that animateth the human heart is the knowledge of God, and its truest adorning is the recognition of the truth that He doeth whatsoever He willeth, and ordaineth that which He pleaseth. Its raiment is the fear of God, and its perfection steadfastness in His Faith. Thus God instructeth whosoever seeketh Him. He, verily, loveth the one that turneth towards Him. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 291) Among the greatest of all services that can possibly be rendered by man to Almighty God is the education and training of children, young plants of the Abha Paradise, so that these children, fostered by grace in the way of salvation, growing like pearls of divine bounty in the shell of education, will one day bejewel the crown of abiding glory. (Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 133) This divine image betokeneth all the qualities of perfection whose lights, emanating from the Sun of Truth, illumine the realities of men. And among the greatest of these attributes of perfection are wisdom and knowledge. (Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 140) Today the greatest of all affairs in the Cause is firmness and steadfastness. A tree will not give fruit unless it be firmly rooted. A foundation will not last unless it be firm. There is nothing in this world of man greater than firmness. A soul who is firm will become a son of the Kingdom of God and will be confirmed with the power of the Holy Spirit. (Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v2, p. 343) No attribute is more commendable than faithfulness. It is of the greatest of the virtues in the world of humanity. (Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v3, p. 634) O ye beloved of the Lord! The greatest of all things is the protection of the True Faith of God, the preservation of His Law, the safeguarding of His Cause and service unto His Word. (Abdu'l-Baha, The Will and Testament, p. 3) In these days, the most important of all things is the guidance of the nations and peoples of the world. Teaching the Cause is of utmost importance for it is the head corner-stone of the foundation itself. (Abdu'l-Baha, The Will and Testament, p. 10) They that have forsaken their country for the purpose of teaching Our Cause -- these shall the Faithful Spirit strengthen through its power. A company of Our chosen angels shall go forth with them, as bidden by Him Who is the Almighty, the All-Wise. How great the blessedness that awaiteth him that hath attained the honor of serving the Almighty! By My life! No act, however great, can compare with it, except such deeds as have been ordained by God, the All-Powerful, the Most Mighty. Such a service is, indeed, the prince of all goodly deeds, and the ornament of every goodly act. Thus hath it been ordained by
Re: Lincoln's statement
It was clear to me on reading this article, that the reporter did not get a number of things right: There are 350,000 Bahai in Iran Instead of Baha'is Speaking of Shoghi Effendi as the Effendi But we should not lose sight that it is a wonderful article, it shows the Faith in a very good light, and it likely increased the esteem of the Baha'is throughout Israel; which is, after all, what good relations with the press is all about. I would say that it was a spectacular result. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: delivering wives in Bible texts
I have the impression that the Shias have a stronger concept of the sinlessness of prophets than most Sunnis. Is that generally true of Bahais? My impression is that the Baha'i view of the sinlessness of the Imams and of Fatimih is very much in accord with the Shiah approach. I feel like I've asked this before, but would Bahais also reject the other Biblical accounts along these lines? (i.e. Noah getting drunk, Lot getting drunk and committing incest, David committing adultery and murder, Solomon committing idolatry and murder, Jonah running away, Moses committing murder) (peace be upon all the prophets). I think that many of these are symbolic. However, interestingly Shoghi Effendi responded to a question this way: Genesis XIX, 29-38-the text makes it quite clear that Lot was not responsible for the action committed by His two daughters, as they gave him wine and made him drunk. (From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi: Dawn of a New Day, p. 201; also Lights of Guidance, p. 5012 #1689) Also an unrelated request, as some still are doing this. When responding to an earlier post, please, please, please do not simply hit reply, and burden us with all of those earlier messages to scroll through. Please edit them out; that's a standard part of netiquette. Thank you Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
re: Empty tomb
I address this subject in some notes I put together; you really need to start at the beginning to understand the part at the end that directly responds to your question. Brent http://bahai-library.com/?file=poirier_iqan_unsealing_bible The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Celebration of this day
23 May 1912 Talk at Home of Mr. and Mrs. Francis W. Breed 367 Harvard Street, Cambridge, Massachusetts From Stenographic Notes Scientific knowledge is the highest attainment upon the human plane, for science is the discoverer of realities. It is of two kinds: material and spiritual. Material science is the investigation of natural phenomena; divine science is the discovery and realization of spiritual verities. The world of humanity must acquire both. A bird has two wings; it cannot fly with one. Material and spiritual science are the two wings of human uplift and attainment. Both are necessary -- one the natural, the other supernatural; one material, the other divine. By the divine we mean the discovery of the mysteries of God, the comprehension of spiritual realities, the wisdom of God, inner significances of the heavenly religions and foundation of the law. This is 23 May, the anniversary of the message and Declaration of the Báb. It is a blessed day and the dawn of manifestation, for the appearance of the Báb was the early light of the true morn, whereas the manifestation of the Blessed Beauty, Bahá'u'lláh, was the shining forth of the sun. Therefore, it is a blessed day, the inception of the heavenly bounty, the beginning of the divine effulgence. On this day in 1844 the Báb was sent forth heralding and proclaiming the Kingdom of God, announcing the glad tidings of the coming of Bahá'u'lláh and withstanding the opposition of the whole Persian nation. Some of the Persians followed Him. For this they suffered the most grievous difficulties and severe ordeals. They withstood the tests with wonderful power and sublime heroism. Thousands were cast into prison, punished, persecuted and martyred. Their homes were pillaged and destroyed, their possessions confiscated. They sacrificed their lives most willingly and remained unshaken in their faith to the very end. Those wonderful souls are the lamps of God, the stars of sanctity shining gloriously from the eternal horizon of the will of God. The Báb was subjected to bitter persecution in Shiraz, where He first proclaimed His mission and message. A period of famine afflicted that region, and the Báb journeyed to Isfahan. There the learned men rose against Him in great hostility. He was arrested and sent to Tabriz. From thence He was transferred to Maku and finally imprisoned in the strong castle of Chihriq. Afterward He was martyred in Tabriz. This is merely an outline of the history of the Báb. He withstood all persecutions and bore every suffering and ordeal with unflinching strength. The more His enemies endeavored to extinguish that flame, the brighter it became. Day by day His Cause spread and strengthened. During the time when He was among the people He was constantly heralding the coming of Bahá'u'lláh. In all His Books and Tablets He mentioned Bahá'u'lláh and announced the glad tidings of His manifestation, prophesying that He would reveal Himself in the ninth year. He said that in the ninth year you will attain to all happiness; in the ninth year you will be blessed with the meeting of the Promised One of Whom I have spoken. He mentioned the Blessed Perfection, Bahá'u'lláh, by the title Him Whom God shall make manifest. In brief, that blessed Soul offered His very life in the pathway of Bahá'u'lláh, even as it is recorded in historical writings and records. In His first Book, the Best of Stories, He says, O Remnant of God! I am wholly sacrificed to Thee; I am content with curses in Thy path; I crave nought but to be slain in Thy love; and God, the Supreme, sufficeth as an eternal protection. Consider how the Báb endured difficulties and tribulations; how He gave His life in the Cause of God; how He was attracted to the love of the Blessed Beauty, Bahá'u'lláh; and how He announced the glad tidings of His manifestation. We must follow His heavenly example; we must be self-sacrificing and aglow with the fire of the love of God. We must partake of the bounty and grace of the Lord, for the Báb has admonished us to arise in service to the Cause of God, to be absolutely severed from all else save God during the day of the Blessed Perfection, Bahá'u'lláh, to be completely attracted by the love of Bahá'u'lláh, to love all humanity for His sake, to be lenient and merciful to all for Him and to upbuild the oneness of the world of humanity. Therefore, this day, 23 May, is the anniversary of a blessed event. (Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 139) The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that
re: Whoso claimeth a revelation direct from God
If by a minor Prophet you mean a Being who is sent to guide humanity, who possesses infallibility, Who is intended by God that the people should follow Him, then by implication the Master has stated that none will come. If by a 'minor Prophet you mean someone with the *station* of a minor Prophet, then the Master has said that it is possible that many could come. In confirmation of the exalted rank of the true believer, referred to by Bahá'u'lláh, He reveals the following: The station which he who hath truly recognized this Revelation will attain is the same as the one ordained for such prophets of the house of Israel as are not regarded as Manifestations 'endowed with constancy.' (The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 111) The reason I say that by implication the Master says that no minor Prophet intended to have a following will come, is that His last words to humanity are: All must seek guidance and turn unto the Center of the Cause and the House of Justice. And he that turneth unto whatsoever else is indeed in grievous error. (The Will and Testament of `Abdu'l-Baha, p. 25) I feel that by saying not to turn unto whatsoever else, He is saying that God will not send a Guide to us outside of the Guardian or the House of Justice prior to the next Manifestation endowed with constancy, i.e. the next Manifestation with a Revelation direct from God. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Recommendation of Roy Mottahedeh's Introduction on jurisprudence
Roy Mottahedeh's translation of Muhammad Baqir as-Sadr's Lessons in Islamic Jurisprudence was published by Oneworld. I wanted to recommend his Introduction to that book, which is a very cogent and helpful summary of the sources and history of Islamic law. I am suggesting it not only when giving a course on Islam, but using its contents when giving talks on the Baha'i Faith; because sometimes it is the contrast between Islamic law and Baha'u'llah's approach, or how jurisprudential terms of art are used in Islam and the Baha'i Faith, that would clarify and provide perspective on Baha'i law for the friends. I will admit that Sadr's writings on the foundations and dynamics of jurisprudence were far less accessible to me. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: House of Justice legislation
I recall reading somewhere -- the Priceless Pearl? That when Shoghi Effendi became the Guardian, the first thing he did was to sit down and read all of the Writings at the World Centre. I would not be surprised to learn that when new members are elected to the House of Justice, there is a protocol for them to become familiar with the unpublished Texts as well as with the ongoing activities of the House of Justice. I assume that one of the functions of the Research Department is to not only translate the Writings, but as a preliminary, to summarize the Writings that aren't yet translated; and that House members can request that Department for a full translation when needed. Moojan Momen's mother works in that Department; maybe he can shed some light on this. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
re: ismat and infallibility - a question
Among the passages in the Baha'i Writings using the word 'ismat are the following. Brent Aqdas p. 36 -- the Most Great *Infallibility* Master's Will p. 11: under the shelter and *unerring* guidance of His Holiness, the Exalted One beneath the shadow of His supreme and *infallible* authority. Gleanings LXXV p. 143 Him Who is the source of *purity* Iqan p 216 the *Immaculate* Souls Iqan p 35 how numerous the gems of His wisdom that are still concealed in His *inviolable* treasuries! Iqan 167 the brightness of the light of *chastity* Advent 32 God hath verily made *chastity* to be a crown for the heads of His handmaidens Advent 32 Do Thou, then, preserve them within the stronghold of Thy guardianship and the tabernacle of Thine *unerring protection* Prayers and Meditations p 46 XXXVI Set, then, the seal of Thine *unerring protection* on their hearts, O my Lord Prayers and Meditations p 217 CXXIX Do Thou preserve me beneath the shadow of Thy Supreme *Sinlessness* Prayers and Mediations p. 100 LXXII Before the Concourse on high I was adorned with the ornament of His names. I was wrapt within the veil of *an inviolable security* Gleanings 284 CXXIX The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Ranking of Maxwell School
http://tinyurl.com/qjupo Maxwell School ranked 64th out of 279 secondary schools in B.C. Canada; higher than all the public schools, and 3rd among the private schools in its area. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Baha'is in solar and wind energy fields
I am interested in connecting Baha'is and spouses of Baha'is who are familiar with wind and solar energy research and applications, to the Barli institute, an SED project of the NSA of India. Please have them contact me and I'll put them in touch. Thanks Brent [EMAIL PROTECTED] The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
The falcon
Thus it hath been made clear that these stages depend on the vision of the wayfarer. In every city he will behold a world, in every Valley reach a spring, in every meadow hear a song. But the falcon of the mystic heaven hath many a wondrous carol of the spirit in His breast, and the Persian bird keepeth in His soul many a sweet Arab melody; yet these are hidden, and hidden shall remain. (Baha'u'llah, The Seven Valleys, p. 28) I am the Sun of Wisdom and the Ocean of Knowledge. I cheer the faint and revive the dead. I am the guiding Light that illumineth the way. I am the royal Falcon on the arm of the Almighty. I unfold the drooping wings of every broken bird and start it on its flight. (Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 169) Baha'u'llah describes Himself as a very remarkable falcon. It sings; and it doesn't catch birds and rip them apart, it helps the weak birds and encourages them to fly. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Quote about recognition
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 16:47:00 - From: Simeon Kohlman Rabbani [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: re: Quote about recognition Is it this line from the Lawh-i-Aqdas? Verily, We behold all created things moved to bear witness unto Us. Some know Us and bear witness, while the majority bear witness, yet know Us not. Peace, Simeon Simeon, that exactly states the principle I am thinking of, thank you; and I hadn't connected it. However, it isn't the quote I'm thinking of, which as I recall comes from the Master. Thank you Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Quote about recognition
I am looking for a passage in the Writings -- I believe it is in one of the Tablets or addresses of the Master; I thought it was in Some Answered Questions but I can't find it there. It says something along the lines of some people are under the sway of the Revelation and know it; and some are under the sway of the Revelation and don't know it. Something like explicit and implicit recognition. It expresses this same principle, in different words: In such manner hath the Kitáb-i-Aqdas been revealed that it attracteth and embraceth all the divinely appointed Dispensations. Blessed those who peruse it. Blessed those who apprehend it. Blessed those who meditate upon it. Blessed those who ponder its meaning. So vast is its range that it hath encompassed all men ere their recognition of it. (Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 200) Thanks Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: A Prophet before one thousand years?
I think that this is one of the instances of bada'a in the Writings. Here is is translated as creation: . . . the Beauty of the Unseen hath shone forth above the horizon of creation Prayers and Meditations p. 311. Khazeh Fananapazir once said that bada'a is from the same root as Badi’. I understand Badi’ to mean unique, wonderful, new, unprecedented, never before seen, among other meanings. So I gather that the application to God changing His mind – (a very anthropomorphic concept, as we are talking about universal Mind and not limited, linear, rational, dinky little human mind) -- has to do with originating something new. My view of the ending of the line of Guardians is that it is not the failure of a promise. The Guardian functioning with the House was anticipated by the Master, but in the second part of His Will He does not mention the Guardianship and provides for the House to function infallibly without the Guardian; and Baha’u’llah in the Aqdas foreshadows the possibility of the ending of the line of Guardians before the House is established (Aqdas Note 66). It is my understanding that the continuation of the line of Guardians functioning with the House was one of several options. Another option anticipated was that the House would have come into being right after the Master’s passing, and that Shoghi Effendi would not have functioned without the House. Another was the way it actually came about. I compare this to Baha’u’llah revealing verses, then casting them into the river. (GPB 138) It was God’s Will to reveal them; but then, as Baha’u’llah says, no one was found worthy to hear them. Perhaps the Guardian and House functioning together was the desired approach, but humanity was not found worthy. That doesn’t mean that the clear Covenant was not fulfilled. As to the verse about day not being followed by night, Shoghi Effendi did relate this to the line of Guardians. It means that guidance remains on the earth until the next Manifestation comes – there is no “night”. The guidance promised to the Guardian in the Master’s Will, is the same guidance promised to the House, in the same verse. (Master’s Will, p. 11). The House also takes this approach: “The election of the Universal House of Justice was greeted with great joy by the world-wide Bahá'í community, for it ensured the continuation of divine guidance until the advent of the next Manifestation of God, thereby fulfilling the prophecy that there would come a ‘Day which shall not be followed by night.’ (The Universal House of Justice, Messages 1963 to 1986, p. xxvii; also see letter in the Scholarship Compilation). As to whether the Guardian, in referring to the “machinery” remaining behind after Baha’u’llah into future Dispensations, and whether this refers to the House of Justice always being on the earth: It should also be borne in mind that the machinery of the Cause has been so fashioned, that whatever is deemed necessary to incorporate into it in order to keep it in the forefront of all progressive movements, can, according to the provisions made by Bahá'u'lláh, be safely embodied therein. To this testify the words of Bahá'u'lláh, as recorded in the Eighth Leaf of the exalted Paradise: It is incumbent upon the Trustees of the House of Justice to take counsel together regarding those things which have not outwardly been revealed in the Book, and to enforce that which is agreeable to them. God will verily inspire them with whatsoever He willeth, and He, verily, is the Provider, the Omniscient. (Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 22) And finally the tenth part of this mighty process must be the penetration of that light, in the course of numerous crusades and of successive epochs of both the Formative and Golden Ages of the Faith, into all the remaining territories of the globe through the erection of the entire machinery of Bahá'u'lláh's Administrative Order in all territories, both East and West, the stage at which the light of God's triumphant Faith shining in all its power and glory will have suffused and enveloped the entire planet. (Shoghi Effendi, Messages to the Baha'i World - 1950-1957, p. 155) The House of Justice is the crown of that machinery. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
Re: A Prophet before one thousand years?
10. QUESTION: Shaving the head hath been forbidden in the Kitáb-i-Aqdas but enjoined in the Suriy-i-Hajj. ANSWER: All are charged with obedience to the Kitáb-i-Aqdas; whatsoever is revealed therein is the Law of God amid His servants. The injunction on pilgrims to the sacred House to shave the head hath been lifted. (Tablet of Questions and Answers, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 109) So Baha'u'llah revealed a Tablet requiring pilgrims to shave the head; then in the Aqdas prohibited shaving the head. Did He change His mind? I think that is perhaps the first instinct, to think that. But a few other thoughts come to mind. One is that by this law, Baha'u'llah was demonstrating that He *could* have requiring pilgrims to shave the head. Then this law would be seen in the same light as the laws of the Bayan, which the Guardian explained were never intended to be enforced, but rather to demonstrate the sovereignty of the Bab as an independent Manifestation. So the reason that a Manifestation reveals something, is not always the obvious one. My personal take on this, is that in this verse from Questions and Answers Baha'u'llah is demonstrating the pre-eminence of the Aqdas over His other Writings. It is a more effective lesson and sinks deeper than merely stating that it is pre-eminent. Similarly, some time after He originally revealed it, Baha'u'llah later added a passage to the Iqan, in which He expresses His devotion to the Bab and states that He wants to lay down His life for Him. Shoghi Effendi selected this passage for the frontispiece to the Dawn-Breakers, not knowing that it was an afterthought. Hand of the Cause Ugo Giachery was present when the original of the Iqan in the handwriting of `Abdu'l-Baha was presented to Shoghi Effendi: These manuscripts, Shoghi Effendi stated, were transcribed by 'Abdu'l-Bahá in His beautiful calligraphy, when He was about eighteen years old, and bore some additions in the Hand of Bahá'u'lláh, insertions which He had written on the margins of many pages in reviewing the manuscripts. Shoghi Effendi had never before seen the original of the Íqán and was deeply astonished to discover that the phrase he had chosen from this book and placed on the title page of his translation of Nabil's Narrative, The Dawn-Breakers, was an after-reflection of Bahá'u'lláh's, written by Himself, on the margin of one page. The phrase in question is the one starting: 'I stand, life in hand, ready; that perchance...'[KI, p. 161 (Brit. ed.), p. 252 (U.S. ed.). See DB for the translation here used, which appears on the title page.] The Guardian, that evening, was not only astonished but overjoyed as well, because he was conscious that through a mysterious process he had been inspired to adopt that phrase as an eternal testimonial to Bahá'u'lláh's yearning to sacrifice His life for the Báb, the Primal Point. All of us who were seated at the table were awed and profoundly stirred, and I, in particular, felt that the existence of a spiritual link between our Guardian and the invisible world of God was something that no one should ever doubt. (Ugo Giachery, Shoghi Effendi - Recollections, p. 148) So again, does this mean that Baha'u'llah changed His mind about the contents of the Iqan? Or was this a way of emphasizing this passage? Perhaps we can read of an addition to the Aqdas in the same light: The eighth Ishraq This passage, now written by the Pen of Glory, is accounted as part of the Most Holy Book: The men of God's House of Justice have been charged with the affairs of the people. They, in truth, are the Trustees of God among His servants and the daysprings of authority in His countries. O people of God! That which traineth the world is Justice, for it is upheld by two pillars, reward and punishment. These two pillars are the sources of life to the world. Inasmuch as for each day there is a new problem and for every problem an expedient solution, such affairs should be referred to the House of Justice that the members thereof may act according to the needs and requirements of the time. They that, for the sake of God, arise to serve His Cause, are the recipients of divine inspiration from the unseen Kingdom. It is incumbent upon all to be obedient unto them. All matters of State should be referred to the House of Justice, but acts of worship must be observed according to that which God hath revealed in His Book. (Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, pp. 128-129) Does this mean that Baha'u'llah didn't think of this passage when He authored the Aqdas? That God left something out of the Book, and Baha'u'llah remedied it later? It is my own personal view that by this method Baha'u'llah has emphasized this matter. Just as the Master selected the very last verse of His Will -- literally the very last words He addressed to the human race -- to direct us to turn to the House of Justice and the Guardian and seek their guidance; in the same
A Prophet before one thousand years?
The quotes the Guardian gathered in the Dispensation state as explicitly as any subject in the Baha'i Writings that it will be not less than 1000 years before the next Manifestation. The Covenant, unlike other subjects in the Faith (like the mystical teachings) are not hidden and waiting to be discovered. They are express. The Covenant is absolutely crystal-clear, in explicit verses. Not only Baha'u'llah's written Covenant to turn to the Master; and the Master's Covenant to turn to the House and the Guardian; but in addition Baha'u'llah's Covenant regarding the appearance of the next Manifestation. The thousand years could not be more explicit. (WOB 132) It should also be noted that the guidance is not that a Manifestation will come in a thousand years. We do not know the time; only that it will be not less than a thousand years. Maybe it will be five or ten thousand years. Maybe not all will follow it because they know the guidance will be there until the next Revelation, if I'm not wrong after that event, the House will be fallible. But, as the quote indicates the unity of followers is assured. I'm not sure if the Universal House of Justice would maintain its authority once the next Manifestation appears. When Abdu'l-Baha was asked about the meaning of whoso layeth a claim to a revelation direct from God,' He answered that for the next thousand years no one should presume to breathe a word against the House of Justice. Might this open up all kinds of possibilities as to what happens after those thousand years? The Master promised in His Will that both Manifestations guide the House of Justice. I don't think the Master is saying that the Manifestations will stop guiding it in 1000 years. I think this is another way of His saying that when the new Manifestation comes, He or She will have all power, and the reference to the thousand years is not to a time, but to an event, the coming of the new Manifestation, whenever it occurs. The House itself says in its Constitution that it is the Writings themselves that are guaranteed authority until the next Manifestation; and by implication, the same is true of the House. The provenance, the authority, the duties, the sphere of action of the Universal House of Justice all derive from the revealed Word of Bahá'u'lláh . . . The authority of these Texts is absolute and immutable until such time as Almighty God shall reveal His new Manifestation to Whom will belong all authority and power. (The Universal House of Justice, The Constitution of The Universal House of Justice, p. 4) The thing is that it is my understanding that the Guardian said that there will always be a Universal House of Justice. This is not a temporary measure set up solely during the Dispensation of Baha'u'llah; but rather, a permanent feature in the world, a permanent part of the machinery brought by Baha'u'llah for the entire future of the world: After Bahá'u'lláh many Prophets will, no doubt, appear, but they will be all under His shadow. Although they may abrogate the laws of the Dispensation, in accordance with the needs and requirements of the age in which they appear, they nevertheless draw their spiritual force from this mighty Revelation. The Faith of Bahá'u'lláh constitutes, indeed, the stage of maturity in the development of mankind. His appearance has released such spiritual forces which will continue to animate, for many long years to come, the world in its development. Whatever progress may be achieved in the later ages-after the unification of the whole human race is achieved -- will be but improvements in the machinery of the world. For the machinery itself has already been created by Bahá'u'lláh. The task of continually improving and perfecting this machinery is one which later Prophets will be called upon to achieve. They will move and work within the orbit of Bahá'í cycle. (From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer dated November 14, 1935; Lights of Guidance, p. 473, #1561; and Directives from the Guardian, p. 61, #164) We have seen how the Universal Manifestation treats the laws of former Dispensations, in the Aqdas. We have not yet seen how manifestations lesser in rank than a Universal Manifestation, will relate to the laws of a Universal Manifestation, when They come after Him. Maybe they will treat Baha'u'llah's laws with a greater degree of deference, than Baha'u'llah treated the laws of Muhammad and the Bab and the earlier Prophets. We have also never seen a situation where a Prophet appeared in the world at a time when an infallibly-guided person or body from the previous Dispensation was still in the world. So our conjectures that the new Prophet would appear, and at His or Her appearance the rug is automatically pulled out from under the House of Justice, which is then blind to the new Manifestation -- is sheer conjecture based more on doubt than on
Nice article about a pioneer!
http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2006/01/26/045.html The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
re: Three Marys
There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome (King James Bible, Mark 15:40) James the Less was named Jacob. If you Google Mary the mother of Jacob in quotes you will find a number of references to her. e.g.: http://www.metrum.org/gosen/theofwomen.htm http://www.ltsg.edu/db/index.htm?dir=resourcespage=sermoncat=sermonartid=160 Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Fw: Harvard Professorship of Science Religion
- Original Message - From: Phillip Tussing [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:29 PM Subject: Harvard Professorship of Science Religion This message comes to you from the history tarikh-list No forwarding allowed Please consider this, and pass to any Baha'is who may be interested to apply. This would be a perfect seat for a Baha'i. Even for the review committee to become aware of Baha'i views would be a great accomplishment. Richard T. Watson is endowing a Professorship of Science and Religion at the Harvard Divinity School. A search committee is being assembled to identify a permanent scholar, but a visiting professor in science and religion will be funded in 2006-7. I can't find a description of the search online. I got my information from Harvard Divinity Today (Fall 2005), a quarterly publication of the Divinity School. Contact William Graham, Dean of the Divinity School (my former thesis advisor, and an Islamist), Office Phone: +1 617 495 4513 Andover Hall 200 +1 617 495 5757 Semitic Museum Office Fax:+1 617 496 8026 University Mailing Address:Harvard Divinity School Andover Hall 45 Francis Ave Cambridge MA 02138 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Secretary to the Dean: Suzanne Rom ([EMAIL PROTECTED]), 617.495.4513, Phillip URL to archives is http://listserv.buffalo.edu/archives/tarikh-list.html The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
re: Scholarship and the House of Justice
My first thought is that more faith in the guidance of the House of Justice will come largely through more faith in Baha'u'llah. Yes; and also, through more faith in, and understanding of, the Master's Will, which broadens and re-emphasizes the guidance of God to the House of Justice. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Article about a Baha'i on Emory University Faculty
Article about a Baha'i on the Emory University faculty in the American Studies Department, Pellom McDaniels, who was previously a pro football player on the Kansas City and Atlanta football teams: http://tinyurl.com/8vpw5 Here is a photo of him: http://i.cnn.net/si/images/football/nfl/players/2446.jpg Elsewhere on the Web I learned that some years ago he established the Arts for Smarts Foundation http://tinyurl.com/b9rj3 which exposes underprivileged children to the arts, and also established the Fish Out of Water Writing Club which publishes student writing. His work with children has been featured on the CBS Sunday Morning TV program. He is the author of My Own Harlem which describes his own personal renaissance through poetry, and So You Want to be a Pro which gives advice on personal and professional success. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Sign of God on Earth
As already posted, the Master uses the term Sign of God once in His Will and Testament, to show the station of Shoghi Effendi. In the original, Sign of God is ayat Allah, generally written in the West as Ayatollah. Yes, one more beautiful Arabic word hijacked by extremists, along with Party of God, a term the Master uses in the Tablets of the Divine Plan (Hizb'u'llah now generally transliterated Hezbollah) among others. Hmm. Now I can't find that phrase in those Tablets. Is my memory playing tricks on me? The Master did not use the term Sign of God on earth. On earth has been used by the Hands of the Cause and by the Universal House of Justice. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Letter of the House of Justice regarding recitation of the Greatest Name
Can someone direct me to an online source for the letter of the House of Justice instituting the binding practice of recitation of the Greatest Name 95 times? Thanks Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Tree of fire
In unraveling the mystery of the Hidden Treasure tradition, the Master explains that it refers to the gradual movement of the Manifestation from concealment to Manifestation, and that the tree aflame symbolizes one of the stages: O wayfarer in the path of the Beloved! Know thou that the main purpose of this holy tradition is to make mention of the stages of God's concealment and manifestation within the Embodiments of Truth, They who are the Dawning-places of His All-Glorious Being. For example, before the flame of the undying Fire is lit and manifest, it existeth by itself within itself in the hidden identity of the universal Manifestations, and this is the stage of the Hidden Treasure. And when the blessed Tree is kindled by itself within itself, and that Divine Fire burneth by its essence within its essence, this is the stage of I wished to be made known. And when it shineth forth from the Horizon of the universe with infinite Divine Names and Attributes upon the contingent and placeless worlds, this constituteth the emergence of a new and wondrous creation which correspondeth to the stage of Thus I called creation into being. And when the sanctified souls rend asunder the veils of all earthly attachments and worldly conditions, and hasten to the stage of gazing on the beauty of the Divine Presence and are honoured by recognizing the Manifestation and are able to witness the splendour of God's Most Great Sign in their hearts, then will the purpose of creation, which is the knowledge of Him Who is the Eternal Truth, become manifest. (`Abdu'l-Bahá, quoted in The Kitab-i-Aqdas, pp. 175-176) In the Iqan Baha'u'llah refers to Himself as the flamelike Youth, and seems to be saying here that He is in the stage between concealment and Revelation in Iraq, prior to His declaration: Say O people of the earth! Behold this flamelike Youth that speedeth across the limitless profound of the Spirit, heralding unto you the tidings: Lo: the Lamp of God is shining, and summoning you to heed His Cause which, though hidden beneath the veils of ancient splendour, shineth in the land of Iraq above the day-spring of eternal holiness. (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 147) In the Revelation of John is promised the One with eyes of flame: His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire Revelation 1:14 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. Revelation of John 19:11 – 19:16 Baha'u'llah unseals this verse in Javahiru'l-Asrar: He saith: His eyes were as a flame of fire … How could these words be literally interpreted? … Know then that He who uttered these words in the realms of glory meant to describe the attributes of the One Who is to come in such veiled and enigmatic terms as to elude the understanding of the people of error. Now, when He saith: His eyes were as a flame of fire, He alludeth but to the keenness of sight and acuteness of vision of the Promised One, Who with His eyes burneth away every veil and covering, maketh known the eternal mysteries in the contingent world, and distinguisheth the faces that are obscured with the dust of hell from those that shine with the light of paradise. Were His eyes not made of the blazing fire of God, how could He consume every veil and burn away all that the people possess? How could He behold the signs of God in the Kingdom of His names and in the world of creation? How could He see all things with the all-perceiving eye of God? Thus have we conferred upon Him a penetrating vision in this day. Would that ye believe in the verses of God! For, indeed, what fire is fiercer than this flame that shineth in the Sinai of His eyes, whereby He consumeth all that hath veiled the peoples of the world? (Bahá'u'lláh, Gems of Divine Mysteries, pp. 52-54) So the Light of Israel will be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame Isaiah 10:17 And the verse from Revelation says that He had a name written, that no man knew. In Revelation 3:12 Jesus refers to His return, and to the name of God, and the name of the City of God, the new Jerusalem that comes down from heaven, and to His own new name. This verse is fulfilled in Revelation
re: Is it Possible to Understand Without Believing?
Sure. In my own case, I read and understood the Baha'i Writings stating that Muhammad was a Prophet of God equal to Christ and Baha'u'llah. It took me ten years to accept that. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
re: Abdul-Baha and savages
I couldn't find that letter either on Ocean or on bahai-library.com but perhaps this will be of service. Brent In spite of the fact that ... has been expelled from the Gilbert and Ellice Islands, the remarkable progress of the Faith there has been a source of great satisfaction. It shows that a spiritual receptivity, a purity of heart and uprightness of character exist potentially amongst many of the peoples of the Pacific Isles to an extent equal to that of the tribesmen of Africa. It is indeed an encouraging and awe-inspiring sight to witness the spread of our beloved Faith amongst those whom civilized nations misguidedly term savages, primitive peoples and uncivilized nations (From a letter on behalf of Shoghi Effendi dated 11 July 1956 to the National Spiritual Assembly of the British Isles, published in Unfolding Destiny, p. 365) http://bahai-library.com/compilations/islands.southpacific.html The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Abdul-Baha and savages
I recall something along that line but don't know where it was Brent - Original Message - From: M Chase [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu; Brent Poirier [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 4:17 PM Subject: Re: Abdul-Baha and savages Dear Brent, I found that same quote of Shoghi Effendi too after searching both of the sources you mentioned, but I am wondering did the House ever write a letter addressing this or am I mistaken in thinking such a letter ever existed? Even if the House's letter cannot be found, does anyone else remember it ever existing? Sincerely, Marleen The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: Parental consent
Bah'u'llh has placed great emphasis on the duties of parents toward their children, and he has urged children to have gratitude in their hearts for their parents, whose good pleasure they should strive to win as a means of pleasing God himself. (January 24, 1993 letter from the Universal House of Justice quoted in the US NSA publication Developing Distinctive Baha'i Communities Section 16.17) Perhaps that is an element of how God wants us to show that gratitude. Our parents know us extremely well; they have seen marriages come and go. They may have insights we lack. In addition, a marriage is a bringing together of two families, and it is appropriate to ask the heads of those families for their approval. But approval of voting, etc., these are passing things, far less weighty, so there is no requirement for us to seek parental consent for these. We are urged to think for ourselves, this is the appropriate arena for that. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: Every NSA gets the same number of votes
The House is elected ultimately by the National Spiritual Assembly members, and as you point out, those Assemblies may have huge disparities in numbers. At the next lower level, the delegates to the National Convention are from Units that are designed to be roughly comparable population-wise. So at different stages, different principles apply. There is a somewhat similar principle in the US congress. Representatives are from Congressional Districts that are, at least in theory, roughly comparable population-wise. However, Senators -- in many respects the more powerful body -- there are two of them from every state, regardless of the population of the state. This is a reflection of the principle that in US jurisprudence, the federal government derives its authority from the delegated sovereignty of the individual citizens, and the states, which are viewed as having natural sovereignty. There are huge differences between the two, but the point I'm making is that this principle of equality of sovereigns in one body, and population representation in another body, is found elsewhere. I believe it is also found to some degree in the UN bodies. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Authenticity of the Old and New Testaments
These are all extracts taken from a memorandum of the Research Department to the Universal House of Justice dated 14 December 1987. Brent ...we cannot be sure how much or how little of the four Gospels are accurate and include the words of Christ and His undiluted teachings, all we can be sure of, as Bah's, is that what has been quoted by Bah'u'llh and the Master must be absolutely authentic. As many times passages in the Gospel of St. John are quoted we may assume that it is his Gospel and much of it accurate. (From a letter dated January 23, 1944 written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer) The Four Gospels were written after Him [Christ]. John, Luke, Mark and Matthew - these four wrote after Christ what they remembered of His utterances. (From a previously untranslated Tablet of Baha'u'llah) ...the Torah that God hath confirmed consists of the exact words that streamed forth at the bidding of God from the tongue of Him Who conversed with Him (Moses). (From a previously untranslated Tablet of Baha'u'llah) When 'Abdu'l-Bah states we believe what is in the Bible, He means in substance. Not that we believe every word of it to be taken literally or that every word is the authentic saying of the Prophet. (From a letter on behalf of Shoghi Effendi dated 11 February 1944 to an individual believer) We cannot be sure of the authenticity of any of the phrases in the Old or the New Testament. What we can be sure of is when such references or words are cited or quoted in either the Quran or the Bah' writings. (From a letter on behalf of Shoghi Effendi dated 4 July 1947 to an individual believer) You ask for elucidation of the statement made on behalf of the Guardian in this letter of 11 February 1944, When 'Abdu'l-Bah states we believe what is in the Bible, He means in substance. Not that we believe every word of it to be taken literally or that every word is the authentic saying of the Prophet. Is it not clear that what Shoghi Effendi means here is that we cannot categorically state, as we do in the case of the Writings of Bah'u'llh, that the words and phrases attributed to Moses and Christ in the Old and New Testaments are Their exact words, but that, in view of the general principle enunciated by Bah'u'llh in the Kitb-i-qn that God's Revelation is under His care and protection, we can be confident that the essence, or essential elements, of what these two Manifestations of God intended to convey has been recorded and preserved in these two Books? (From a letter on behalf of the Universal House of Justice dated 19 July 1981 to an individual believer) ...The Bah's believe that God's Revelation is under His care and protection and that the essence, or essential elements, of what His Manifestations intended to convey has been recorded and preserved in Their Holy Books. However, as the sayings of the ancient Prophets were written down some time later, we cannot categorically state, as we do in the case of the Writings of Bah'u'llh, that the words and phrases attributed to Them are Their exact words. (From a letter dated 9 August 1984 to an individual believer) The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
re: Challenging Writing from Abdu'l-Baha
In the Holy Books, the recognition of the Manifestation is presented symbolically in many different ways. Symbols using all five of the senses are employed -- seeing the Prophet means recognizing Him (Luke 24:16 and 24:31); as does eating His body (Mark 14:22) and touching His body (Luke 5:13; John 20:27 where Jesus calls on Thomas to put his hand into His side); and hearing the voice of the Prophet; and finally, inhaling the fragrance. This is an image often employed by Baha'u'llah for recognition of Him (Aqdas p. 12 and 164) and relates back to the fragrance of the robe of Joseph in the Story of Joseph in the Qur'an and in the Hebrew Bible. In this passage you refer to from the Master, He writes, The perfume is intimately commingled and blended with the bud, and once the bud hath opened the sweet scent of it is spread abroad. (Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 176) Somewhere in Persian mystic poetry there is a verse when some clay is speaking, and it says that although it is just the clay of the earth, once a rose was in me, and its fragrance has remained. And perhaps the Master is referring to this fragrance in every human being, the recognition of the Manifestation, and that in this sense, every plant can even match the laughing, hundred-petalled rose in rejoicing the sense with its fragrance. (From this same section you are speaking about.) He compares this fragrance to the words on a book; that the book is unaware of its own value, but friends who cherish the words, pass the book lovingly to one another. The Master says, perhaps in a pilgrim's note, that we should love all people because they are reflections of God; and He uses this same imagery; and also the image of a letter that may be worn and tattered, but because we love the sender of the letter, we kiss it. These are my personal impressions of the section of the Master's Tablet you mentioned. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
re: Baha'i Liberation Theology
In a Baha'i liberation theology, what role, if any, should Baha'is play in freeing the poor from oppressive capitalism? Will we be judged if we do not? What did you have in mind as a means of freeing the poor from oppressive capitalism? I'll later return to the question of why are you limiting this to the adverse effects of capitalism, not addressing the other isms that also grievously harm people. But I'm primarily interested in what you think could be done, and what means used. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: Baha'i Liberation Theology ((long quote))
Importers, such as the U.S., have little incentive to protest; and any outrage is drowned out by the demand for cheaper goods Mark, please clarify. I doubt there is a nation on the planet that is not an importer. Well, the economic abuse of migrant workers is still going on. To remedy the abuses of migrant agricultural workers, the U.S. Congress passed a law requiring the field owner to get an H-2A visa for its temporary agricultural workers, say, 100 people to pick lettuce. The process to get visas for these 100 workers requires the following: Determine from the state economist the prevailing wage paid to US workers in that sector, and agree to match that wage Advertise for American workers for a period of time The Labor Department then certifies that the salary offered is correct, and that no US workers applied. The employer then needs: A certificate from the Department of Transportation that the buses carrying the workers to the fields are in proper shape A certificate from the Food and Drug Administration that the food being provided to the workers is nutritious A certificate from the Department of Housing and Urban Development that the lodging provided is habitable A certificate from the Environmental Protection Agency that proper safeguards are provided against pesticides and fertilizers Certificates from the Department of Health, etc. etc. -- in all about a dozen such certificates. All of these require that an inspector come to the facility and view the food, the water, the lodging, the buses, the equipment, etc. And this cannot be done ahead of time, it must be within a strict time frame. And all of this time -- the lettuce is in the field approaching the stage where it rots. I do not handle these visas, they are far too complex, and I only know two immigration lawyers who do. One charges 15 thousand dollars, and the other, 20 thousand dollars. They take a huge amount of time, and these applications, certificates, advertisements, and inspections all must be feathered together within a tolerance of a few days. If one step is missed, the entire process is invalidated and no visas issued to the workers. Requiring all of these inspections is surely the result of the abuses of migrant workers for decades. However, the response is so onerous, and the time frame so short, and some of the requirements so needless (Americans are not applying for the job, yet the advertising must be done anyway) that the end result is that often, there is insufficient time to get the visas in time to save the harvest. So the growers, who would pay the fees if it was a viable process, instead just revert back to hiring the people illegally. The remedy, though well-intentioned, is just too burdensome, I am told. And once the worker works illegally, and lives in the USA illegally for more than one year, even if the worker later qualifies for a visa, he or she is required to leave the USA for ten years before being permitted to get a visa. Often these workers are the most valuable employees -- they don't call in sick, they are trustworthy, I have heard dozens of employers tell me that their employees they just found out are illegal, are far and away their best employees. And there is no remedy for them; they are not allowed to get lawful visas, unless they marry a US citizen. But based on employment alone -- nothing can be done for them. They are effectively sentenced to a lifetime under the table. Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Religion and Law
22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 22:38 This is the first and great commandment. 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. -- from the book of Matthew It took me decades to realize that Jesus was referring to the laws of Moses, not stating something new. He was quoting the laws of Moses, and stating which were the greatest among them. The nature of a medicine is determined by the nature of the illness. The nature of each Revelation is determined by the spiritual and social needs of the world at that time. The Revelation of Moses was heavy on law. Jesus came to restore a sense of where the important priorities were, and to elminate a sense of religious legalism. Muhammad incorporated both. There is a reference to this in the Master's explanation of the meaning of the 11th Chapter of the Revelation of John: It is said they are clothed in sackcloth, meaning that they, apparently, were to be clothed in old raiment, not in new raiment; in other words, in the beginning they would possess no splendor in the eyes of the people, nor would their Cause appear new; for Muhammad's spiritual Law corresponds to that of Christ in the Gospel, and most of His laws relating to material things correspond to those of the Pentateuch. This is the meaning of the old raiment. (Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 48) Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Religion and Law
- Original Message - From: Don Calkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] The basic meaning is, I believe, very inexpensive, rough clothing. In relatively recent times, sackcloth was typically tho't of as feedsack material. From this, the meaning could be that the wearers would be poor and possibly outcast, not permitted to earn enough money for better quality clothing. The other possibility is that they would be in mourning for the people having fallen away from the religion of God. As I remember, some of the Old Testament prophets adopted sack cloth garb. Strong's Concordance says that the Greek word here translated as sackcloth was sakkos, i.e. mohair (the material or garments made of it, worn as a sign of grief): - sackcloth. However, in connection with the Master's explanation that the meaning of sackcloth is more related to the garments being old: It is said they are clothed in sackcloth, meaning that they, apparently, were to be clothed in old raiment, not in new raiment; in other words, in the beginning they would possess no splendor in the eyes of the people, nor would their Cause appear new; for Muhammad's spiritual Law corresponds to that of Christ in the Gospel, and most of His laws relating to material things correspond to those of the Pentateuch. This is the meaning of the old raiment. (Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 48) ... this statement by the Bab in the Book of Seven Proofs is illuminating: Indeed observe how He Who representeth the origin of creation, He Who is the Exponent of the verse, 'I, in very truth, am God', identified Himself as the Gate [Bab] for the advent of the promised Qa'im, a descendant of Muhammad, and in His first Book enjoined the observance of the laws of the Qur'an, so that the people might not be seized with perturbation by reason of a new Book and a new Revelation and might regard His Faith as similar to their own, perchance they would not turn away from the Truth and ignore the thing for which they had been called into being. (Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 119) Brent The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
