Re: Help with pack issues
First of all this has nothing to do with you and you sister. This has to do with dominance issues between the dogs. This sounds like it could be related to food and treats and could possibly be easily remedied by following some basic maintenance rules at meal time AND/OR treat times. There is no reason why the dogs need rawhide chips, except that you may enjoy giving them, but understanding that it will breed this animosity, you need to decide how important it really is, as there is really no value to it nutritionally. OK, first of all, bloodshed is NEVER a good sign and while many people ascribe to the let them fight it out technique , I do not. If you are not sure, ask yourself, If my dog lost the fight and were critically injured or killed, would I still be ok with it? Your answer would probably be a resounding, NO, so please avoid this method. I wonder what you do differently at mealtimes that makes it better than when your sisiter feeds. Do you feed your boy in another room? Personally, I would suspect that my recommendation at this pint would be that you buy a crate, put it in another room, and feed Henly in there. Keep him in there until the other dogs have calmed down and are finished eating. Follow the same procedure if and when you give treats. Your sisters dogs are the pack and it may take months before your boy could find his place, and by then you will probably be ready to leave. In case for some reason this is not entirely food related and your sister's dog decides to become protective over something inanimate like the remote, you may need to keep your boy separate when you are not able to supervise. Just my two cents. Briana
Re: Help with pack issues
Reposted, I don't know if it's just my server, but sometimes AOL garbles everything! - Pat First of all this has nothing to do with you and you sister. This has to do with dominance issues between the dogs. This sounds like it could be related to food and treats and could possibly be easily remedied by following some basic maintenance rules at meal time AND/OR treat times. There is no reason why the dogs need rawhide chips, except that you may enjoy giving them, but understanding that it will breed this animosity, you need to decide how important it really is, as there is really no value to it nutritionally. OK, first of all, bloodshed is NEVER a good sign and while many people ascribe to the let them fight it out technique , I do not. If you are not sure, ask yourself, If my dog lost the fight and were critically injured or killed, would I still be ok with it? Your answer would probably be a resounding, NO, so please avoid this method. I wonder what you do differently at mealtimes that makes it better than when your sisiter feeds. Do you feed your ! boy in another room? Personally, I would suspect that my recommendation at this pint would be that you buy a crate, put it in another room, and feed Henly in there. Keep him in there until the other dogs have calmed down and are finished eating. Follow the same procedure if and when you give treats. Your sisters dogs are the pack and it may take months before your boy could find his place, and by then you will probably be ready to leave. In case for some reason this is not entirely food related and your sister's dog decides to become protective over something inanimate like the remote, you may need to keep your boy separate when you are not able to supervise. Just my two cents. Briana - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rmlyc3Qgb2YgYWxsIHRoaXMgaGFzIG5vdGhpbmcgdG8 etc. Check any e-mail over the Web for free at MailBreeze (http://www.mailbreeze.com)
Re: Help with pack issues
In a message dated 7/10/2003 1:04:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are Berners not as sensitive to pack issues so Henley isn't getting the message? Or am I just spoiling him too much by keeping my nose in things? Is the Chessie entitled to continue drawing blood to assert his position, or is there a point when his human should take a stand on how far he can go? Deborah, I dont think Berners are any more or less sensitive than other breeds to pack issues. And I think letting the dogs work things out on their own is perfectly fine IF no one is getting hurt and the conflicts are over fairly quickly (5 seconds or so.) But here you may need to manage the situation and keep them seperate anytime one has food like feed in seperate rooms and keep one crated or in a closed room when you are not home just for everyones piece of mind (And keeping leashes attached and dragging in the house will help you to seperate them if another fight occurs) good luck!! Vilma Briggs (Kistner) Mt. Gilead, OH U-UD Mocha Java Slurp, UDX, HIC, TT Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, NDD, TT U-CDX Our Little Buddy, UD, NA, TT Thirdtym's A Charm, CD Hob Nob Clouds In My Coffee (puppy Perc) and foster Bernerboy: Brew/Bruin
Re: Help with pack issues
1) Feed separately. NO high value food or treat items in the mixed pack. Period. 2) If it is a lot of talk and noise, I step back. If it is a true dogfight, I break it up. 3) Not every male dog can tolerate other males or new males or young males in his space--there are no male dog visitors allowed at my house, no male fosters. We can meet other males just fine off the home turf. You may just need to keep them separated for the summer. A pain, but safer for all. Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.488 / Virus Database: 287 - Release Date: 6/5/2003
RE: Help with pack issues
Hi Deborah, Oh yes you have got a problem:-) Chessies are tough dogs and you and Henley are the visitors, this is not a long term arrangement so you must honour the house rules and fit in as best you can. I would not leave my male dog neutered or otherwise alone in the company of an established pack of three dogs. Either keep him crated or in a separate room when you and another person cannot be there to supervise them. If you leave them to work this out on their own fur will fly and injuries will happen. Just because the boys are neutered does not make them mellow pussycats. Boys raised together can tolerate and fix their pack order but a visiting adolescent male has to be sorted and this may not always be very nice! Don't let the dogs spoil your holiday with your sister, recognise that these two tolerate each other on a very limited basis and control the situation. If your sister is going to throw food treats on the way out of the house small wonder WW3 hasn't broken out but it's her house and her rules for her dogs. Keep Henley in your room at night or crated or make sure you're up and about when she leaves for work. On neutral ground like a park you and your sister could probably let them interact more freely but on Chessie's home turf he is to be King of the Hill. While it is essential to break up hostilities make sure you don't side with the loser as that will only make the leading dog feel he has to have this battle again. Remain calm and when trying the two dogs together leave their leashes attached to buckle collars so you and the other person can haul them apart if they get physical without risk of being bitten. Remember when dogs are angry with each other they are not remembering their human bite inhibition training and many an owner has got bitten by getting in the way. Berners are lovely dogs but very tenacious and not wilting flowers when a good punch up is happening, don't let those good looks fool you:-)) I live with twelve dogs and there are days when I'm worn out monitoring the in-pack dynamics. You should try a few Berner bitches all with PMS at the same time for some real fun!!:-)) Rose T.
RE: Help with agression
Hi, When Doppo chased after the setter was he being aggressive or sexual? Was there any vocalisation on his part? Studly behaviour on the part of young males is usually a rush in and a jamming of his nose under her flanks or crotch to which a female will object in a few differing ways. A mature experienced male will posture and strut and plant his ears on the back of his head, chatter his teeth and then try his luck, Doppo is being a teenager with no class! Is there a possibility that she might be coming in heat or recently had a heat? If she is a young bitch with no prior experience of sexual overtures she might well present the cringeing cur image but if she is showing teeth and making noise her next step will be to snap at him and get in his face. If she is spayed then he is being dominant for the pack and might well bully her as she has no rank but normally intact bitches do have status and it is a maladjusted intact male that attacks them. I would suggest you and another person walk these two dogs on leash and without making a big issue just insist he remember when on leash he belongs to you, the bitch needs elevation in status so she should be encouraged to relax and enjoy time with you one on one. When introducing them off leash again actually leave a long leash attached to both in the event there is a serious fight, which I doubt, he sounds like he is just being obnoxious and if you can let her settle into the household and the new humans in her life she will soon have the confidence to sort him out:-) Love quarrels between dogs sound nasty and the bitch can fly into the dog but keep your distance, he'll get the message but you do need to let her settle down and recognise her new home as her own. Rose T.
Re: Help with agression
Thanks Rose, Thanks Eileen Last night, one more nice long walk, came home with everyone happy and relaxed and then, all of a sudden he was at her again. (I was getting dishes into the dishwasher and noticed I had one to my right and one to my left, and was thinking how peaceful they looked. : ( She just gets into a corner , cowers but bares her teeth. He actually goes at her but does not draw any blood, but it looks dangerous enough for my intervention since she cries. Eileen, I´ve handled no intervention in skirmishes where the fight looks even, but how do I deal with one much larger dog cornering a smaller, more fragile dog in a corner and her crying? I´m afraid I won´t see the blood until it´s too late! But this morning they met and were fine. Just hung out together, looking somewhat tense but no growling or squirmishes or anyhting. And they chose to be together in a large yard. I´m still confused. Rose wrote: It does sound rather like he doesn't like her, is there any chance that you can find her a quiet home where she would be the only dog. The other option right now is a home with many more dogs! And she has become very attached to me... She sounds like she has no real dog social skills and your boy is not getting a good feed back from her. She ignores/ is ignored by my other dogs.Would that mean no dog skills? If finding her another home is not an option then keep her separate from him for a while, once he is neutered it will take three to six months for his testosterone levels to fully subside and at his current age they would be very high. They are when they are nagers:-(( OK, I´ll see how long I can keep them separate. I would be inclined to leave her intact for a while and let her relax That makes sense. I´ve spoken to her vet and cancelled the appointment for now. . You must do more obedience work with your boy, he is sounding wilful and not listening. You must be the leading bitch in your household of dogs, it's imp erative:-) Ok, Thanks for pulling my ear! I´ll get into that obedience mode. Good luck Thank you so much and I´ll let you know how it goes Simone
RE: Help us educate
Crossposted by author's request: (And if any of the posts here on the Berner-L have been especially helpful in managing through those difficult early training times, do let her know about those too! If you can't find the specific posts, I may be able to help you find them.) Pat --- Many of our club's well established breeders have developed info packets to send out with their pups. Now that we aren't the only ones selling Berners I thought maybe some of us might like to help out those people who got their Pup from a breeder who doesn't offer support. I would really like to see more organized and helpful information on raising pups on BMDCA's website where it will be available for anyone with a Berner. In the interest of compiling our member's collected knowledge I'd like to ask that anyone who would care to share their puppy packet with me please do so. This also includes you out there that aren't breeders and got a packet of information from your breeder that you found especially helpful. If we get a good many people that are willing to share information then I'll try to compile it into a more cohesive block of material to help PPOs. Maybe our BMDCA website committee can get this collected information onto our club website for use by anyone with a Berner. Elizabeth Pearson has put our Alpenhorn together forever, and what a wonderful job too Elizabeth! Anyone read an article in our newsletter that helped them with puppy issues? New owner issues? I know there have been many helpful Alpenhorn articles by members and those articles that Elizabeth ferreted out and got permission to reprint have had some great information. Or as Robin Hamme has suggested (good one too), has anyone got a favorite professionally produced article from a journal or other magazine that has helped you to handle any kind of issue concerning raising your puppy? How about it! Please share your ideas because your help is needed to educate new owners so Berners don't fall through the cracks. Please let me know what has worked well for you so together we can get helpful info out there for everyone to use. Thanks for your help in advance. Please cross post to other Berner lists. Ann Milligan BonMead Bernese Mountain Dogs [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.angelfire.com/alt/milligan_bmds/
RE: Help Needed ASAP of how to send tumors
Renee, I'm so sorry to hear about Bear, and I'll be waiting on pins and needles with everyone else to hear what the Oncologist says. There is an article about histio on my website, you can read it here: http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/ There is not currently any tumor submission process for UC Davis. There had been one subsidized by Berner-Garde, but due to circumstances beyond anyone's control, the arrangement was canceled. There is a tumor registry with GDC, and that and an eye registry are the only registries they are currently maintaining. To submit the information about an existing pathology report, you can find the form at: http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/gdc/Tumorfm.htm Do not attempt to submit any actually tumors, only the tumor registry is being utilized currently. (option 3, to submit an existing histopath report) There is a study that is currently underway at Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle, Washington. They are working to find the genes responsible for malignant histiocytosis and cancer susceptibility. Here is the information for participating in that study: -- Genetic Research for Genes related to Cancer Susceptibility. Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center is trying to find the gene for cancer susceptibility, and is using blood drawn from Bernese Mountain Dogs that have been positively diagnosed with histio - either systemic or malignant. They still need more samples for their work. They need samples from dogs that have had or (will have post-mortem) a positive diagnosis made. They are also very much in need of control samples from Berners over the age of 10 that have not been diagnosed with histio. (But. We have found that this does not mean that the dog will never get histio, so necropsy for these dogs is also important. They realize this may not be for some years after the sample donation!) I'm sorry, I know I sound very cold hearted here, but in order to look for genes, they need to know these diagnoses positively! The control samples are very important to the success of the study, and will be greatly appreciated! Information on this study and other studies will be posted at www.bmdca.org in the health section. Instructions for submission of blood samples for this study are: 1. request a free blood collection kit from Kenine Comstock or Heidi Parker in Elaine Ostrander's lab Please email both Kenine and Heidi ([EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED]) or call (206) 667-6980 to insure that a kit is sent to you as soon as possible. 2. Follow the enclosed instructions: a. Have your vet fill the tubes with blood b. label the tubes with dog's name, breed, sex, age, owner's name and phone number, and include a pedigree and relative health information. c. use the enclosed mailing label d. mail it priority mail to FHCRC e. call or email them to let them know it's on its way -- I'll try to help in any way that I can, which never feels like enough. I also have the blood collection kits for the FHCRC here, so if anyone does need one, I can mail them out priority mail as well. Please hug that Bear for me, and I'm sorry I didn't see your post sooner! Pat Long, with loving memories of Hannibal Berwyn PA
RE: help with digest
Kim, Thanks for making the effort, most people just email me to ask for help! I think the problem with your commands is that you are sending them in HTML. Are you sending emails from www.aol.com or from version AOL 7.0 or later? Try sending the list command from www.aol.com, and if that doesn't work - let me know and I'll be happy to do it for you! Pat Long ( Luther) Berwyn PA
RE: Help!
Hi Melissa, I hope you had Loki's urine checked again and possibly a culture done. UTI's can be particularly stubborn and sometimes a longer course of medication with a specific antibiotic is required. Rather than crate her in the event she still has some infection continuing I would restrict her to a room with a washable floor and set down some papers. You can talk to your vet about giving her cranberry extract capsules for a while to acidify her urine if that is needed but don't use methiodine as it can cause other problems in the young dog. Do not restrict her water intake either. Rose T. -Original Message- From: Melissa Chan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 1, 2003 7:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Help! Loki is a 7 month spayed female. We also have a 2 1/2 yo neutered male,Griffin. Here's our situation. Loki was seemingly potty trained as of about a month ago. We had stopped crating her altogether and she and Griffin seemed to be doing well together during the day. All of a sudden she started peeing everywhere. Naturally, we took her immediately to the vets and she had a urinary tract infection. The constant peeing cleared up within a day of being on antibiotics. She just finished her antibiotics yesturday. Since being on the medication, she has consistently had 1 accident everyday in the afternoon. She doesn't do it in the same spot either. It is important to note that we come home everyday during the week for lunch and let the dogs do their business and play a bit. My husband and I were wondering if we should start to crate her again to curb this peeing in the afternoon thing. She is almost 70 lbs and a little urine for is looks a lot like a lake. I'm getting really concerned that she is regressing in potty training since her infection. What do you all think would be the best course of action? Do you think there is some other medical problem? If so, what might that be? My husband thinks that I tend to over-react about our dogs' health(he's right), so I like to have input before I worry my self into a frenzy. Thanks in advance! Bernerly yours, Melissa, Loki, and Griffin (Portland, OR)
Re: Help!!puppy warts?
Hi, If the vet has diagnosed viral papillomas then unless the warts are causing problems with swallowing or breathing I'd just wait and see what happens. In my experience the dog can have several of these papillomas that appear overnight, then boom! they are gone completely and as suddenly as they appeared. Here is some info. on them from Vet Info. Certain viruses are able to cause the growth of small round skin tumors that are commonly referred to as warts. Everyone who has every seen a drawing of a fairy tale witch knows what warts look like so when the family dog develops small round skin growths, many people assume these are harmless warts. In reality, there are many types of small round skin growths and it is important for them to be examined as some such growths may not actually be innocuous viral warts. Most growths must be removed and biopsied before they can be identified, though there are some exceptions to this rule. Dogs actually can get warts though not through the same viruses that cause human warts and often these warts have a characteristic appearance which does not require biopsy for identification. In dogs, we do not call these growths warts; we use the more formal term viral papilloma. These are benign skin tumors caused by the canine oral papillomavirus. WHAT DO THESE PAPILLOMAS LOOK LIKE? Viral papillomas are round but often have a rough, almost jagged surface reminiscent of a sea anemone or a cauliflower. They occur usually on the lips and muzzle of a young dog (usually less than 2 years of age). Less commonly, papillomas can occur on the eyelids and even the surface of the eye or between the toes. Usually they occur in groups rather than as solitary growths. HOW IS THIS VIRUS TRANSMITTED? The infection is transmitted via contact with the papillomas on an infected dog. The incubation period is 1-2 months. This virus can only be spread among dogs. It is not contagious to other pets or to humans. ARE VIRAL PAPILLOMAS DANGEROUS? Not really. They should go away on their own as the dog's immune system matures and generates a response against the papillomavirus. There have been two cases published where viral papillomas progressed to malignancy but this is extremely rare and by no means the usual course of the infection. Typically, it takes 1-5 months for papillomas to regress with oral growths tending to regress sooner than ocular growths. Occasionally some papillomas will stay permanently. Sometimes oral papillomas can become infected with bacteria of the mouth. Antibiotics will be needed in such cases to control the pain, swelling, and bad breath. TREATMENT In most cases, treatment is unnecessary; one simply allows the papillomas to go away on their own. Occasionally an unfortunate dog will have a huge number of tumors, so many that consuming food becomes a problem. Tumors can be surgically removed or frozen off cryogenically. Sometimes crushing several growths seems to stimulate the host's immune system to assist in the tumor regression process. In humans, anti-viral doses of interferon have been used to treat severe cases of warts and this treatment is also available for severely infected dogs. Sometimes some of the warts can be removed and made into a vaccine which is felt to stimulate the immune system in removing the tumors, though such vaccines do not seem to be as effective as one might want. Obviously such treatments should be performed by a veterinarian; do not attempt freezing, cutting or crushing of growths on your own. Jeff Mary Chapdelaine SnoBear Berners N. California, USA http://snobear.freeyellow.com When you judge another, you do not define them, you define yourself. Wayne Dyer - Psychotherapist, Author and Speaker
Re: HELP! HELP! HELP!
If he ate river stones and is having diarrhea, he may have a partial blockage. Whether he can pass the stones or not remains to be seen and I would consult with a vet as a complete blockage could occur at any time and result in emergency surgery. Better IMO to do surgery prior to a complete block while Cooper is still in good condition if that is what your vet recommends than to wait til the bowel is total blocked and compromised. Susan Ablon Gweebarra BMD Balch Springs, Tx http://www.pageweb.com/gwebara On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:54:04 +0100 Lindsay Cox [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi everyone! I need HELP!!! First of all, I have to thank everyone that commented on the website! It made our day! I promise to keep updating it so that we can all share in the unbelievably amazing growth of Cooper! Secondly, but by far, first priority This is really kind of gross but I need your help. Cooper ate LOTS of moss from one of artificial trees this past Sunday (the remaining moss was discarded and replaced with lovely BIG inedible river stones!) Well, this morning, you would have thought a land mine filled with you-know-what had exploded all over the house (thank GOD for wood floors and Swifer Wets!) The problem is that he has massive, explosive diarrhea. My bet is that the plant moss is stuck and/or working its way out. Other than having to go out about every 30 minutes, he acts completely normal. I fed him his breakfast this morning and made sure that he had LOTS of water. Is there anything else I can do to speed up the process or do I have to just wait it out (HA! Literally!) Any advice would GREATLY appreciated. Lindsay and not Super Cooper, but POOPER Cooper!
Re: Help on a partially torn cruciate ligament!
Hi Cindy, Yuck...not the kind of X-Mas present you want to wake up to... The best resource I know of...and one that several surgeons refer people to...is Laurie Bryce's website, http://www.lauriebryce.com/tplo/ It was done and maintained by a Berner owner, right in MA as a matter of fact and the information on it is extensive and very credible. Laurie also maintains an active email list for people dealing with cruciate injury, HD, and ED. I believe it's the orthodogs list on Yahoo. To subscribe, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Actually, you might want to drop Laurie a note through the website as well...you might be right around the corner from each other. I'd expect both, especially the email list, would be helpful in considering your options...which may include trying a period of absolute rest before going the surgical route. I also have friends in central MA who've completed TPLO surgery on both knees of their boy between 1 and 2 years of age. I'm sure they'd be happy to share their experiences. Another thought...have you discussed this with your breeder yet? Cruciate injury used to be considered a 'middle age, out of shape, weekend warrior' type of injury but I'm now hearing repeatedly about young bernese being affected. Your breeder might have some valuable experience and guidance to offer...or just moral support. And beyond that...I'd expect a responsible breeder would want the information for her breeding program. Hope this helps, -Sherri Venditti
Re: Help on a partially torn cruciate ligament!
Hi Cindy Our boy Bacchus was diagnosed with a partially torn ACL when he was 4. It came on very suddenly also, one day he was just laying there and moved and yelped. When he stood up he was holding his right rear leg up. After diagnosis from the vet, we kept him on leash walks and crate rest [when we weren't home, so he wasn't tempted to charge the doors or windows to protect the home from squirrels]. For the next couple of weeks, he would move wrong [oddly enough, usually while laying down] and yelp, but was okay 80% of the time. After about a month he was finehowever we did make some permanant changes. We were starting drafting and decided against it. Between the ACL injury and dysplasia in the left front elbow, we felt it was unwise to continue and tempt fate. We had taught him to come up for kisses sometimes [he would stand on his rear legs and look me square in the eyelol]. We had to stop that too. The up part didn't seem to bother him, but the going back down to all 4's caused him pain. Bacchus is now 7 and has not needed surgery [knock on wood]. He still does his cutting horse routine out in the backyard and continues to protect us from squirrels. I would be interested in hearing from others that have dealt with a partially torn ACL.how many have had to have surgery? Cathi with Bacchus and Ari - Original Message - From: Cindy Buhner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2002 11:11 PM Subject: Help on a partially torn cruciate ligament! Major bummer. My ~1 year old Berner, Paws, has been diagnosed with a partially torn cruciate ligament on his left hind leg :
RE: Help on a partially torn cruciate ligament!
Cindy- My Berner girl, Toga, suffered a partial tear of her left ACL in February of 2001 at the age of 3 1/2. It was a very minor tear and wasn't diagnosed until May (everyone thought her mildly dysplastic hip was bothering her). She had a TPLO (tibial plateau leveling osteotomy) the first week of June '01. Four hours after surgery she was standing on all four legs and wagging her tail. By the time she had her stitches removed two weeks later, she was full weight-bearing on the leg and I was already going crazy trying to figure out how I was going to keep her on complete bed rest for six more weeks! Needless to say, it was a very long summer for both of us. She got the final okay from the orthopedic surgeon to go back to being a dog the first week of October and was finally allowed to do the running, jumping and playing she had been doing for a month anyway! :o) Now, a year and a half post-op, she does have some arthritis in that knee joint (most likely from waiting so long to do the surgery), but she runs around like a maniac on it with no problems at all. Her knee angle was 30* prior to the surgery and the surgeon said they see tears and ruptures most often with angles greater than 22*. So, she has almost a 70% chance of tearing the other one at some point in life. Knock on wood, but so far, so good! I assisted on a traditional repair on a Golden Retriever that was about the same size as Toga (85 pounds back then) and six MONTHS after surgery he was still favoring that leg. I've heard similar experiences from numerous other owners. The traditional repair is almost half the price of the TPLO, but in my opinion the TPLO is the only way to go. The extra money spent at the outset repays itself tenfold in the faster and more complete recovery time. Best of luck to you and Paws!! Regards, Jessi Braga and Toga Anchorage, AK
