Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
On 15 Oct 2008 at 11:37, William T Goodall wrote: > It's been very quiet here since the thought police manifesto. > > Obvious Maru You posted a Manifesto? AndrewC Yes, I went there Maru Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
On 15 Oct 2008, at 12:34, William T Goodall wrote: > > On 15 Oct 2008, at 02:04, David Hobby wrote: > >> William T Goodall wrote: >>> On 20 Aug 2008, at 16:10, William T Goodall wrote: I'm growing increasingly concerned that you are trying to use your position on the list to intimidate and silence those with whom you do not agree and that this behaviour could be offensive to some who might otherwise participate. >>> >>> Seems I was right. >>> >>> As usual Maru >> >> William-- >> >> Hi. I give up, what do you mean? >> > > It's been very quiet here since the thought police manifesto. > > Obvious Maru Bingo! More Obvious Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Debunking bullshit is a thankless task. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Off-topic
> I think he means that the financial system crashed > because > the USA abandoned God and became an atheist country. > Alberto "must stop reading the Conservapedia" > Monteiro I wish!~) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
> William T Goodall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> William T Goodall wrote: > >>> I don't know who wrote: > >>> I'm growing increasingly concerned that you are trying to use your > >>> position on the list to intimidate and silence those with whom you > >>> do not agree and that this behaviour could be > offensive to some who might otherwise participate. > >> Seems I was right. > It's been very quiet here since the thought police > manifesto. Hey, did somebody go and develop Heroes powers while I've not been looking?! Debbi Brain, Brain, What Is Brain? Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
Ronn! Blankenship wrote: > At 09:18 PM Tuesday 10/14/2008, Kevin B. O'Brien wrote: > > > >> At this point I cannot rule out some stupid technical problem, like a >> message that got caught in a queue somewhere and just now shook loose. >> It *does* happen sometimes. >> > > > > I wondered if that was what happened. > > > > History Repeats Itself Maru > To me it is a variation on the old "Don't assume malice when stupidity is sufficient" principle. Regards, -- Kevin B. O'Brien TANSTAAFL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux User #333216 "Wagner's music is better than it sounds." -- Mark Twain ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
At 09:18 PM Tuesday 10/14/2008, Kevin B. O'Brien wrote: > >At this point I cannot rule out some stupid technical problem, like a >message that got caught in a queue somewhere and just now shook loose. >It *does* happen sometimes. I wondered if that was what happened. History Repeats Itself Maru . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
On 15 Oct 2008, at 02:04, David Hobby wrote: > William T Goodall wrote: >> On 20 Aug 2008, at 16:10, William T Goodall wrote: >>> I'm growing increasingly concerned that you are trying to use your >>> position on the list to intimidate and silence those with whom you >>> do >>> not agree and that this behaviour could be offensive to some who >>> might >>> otherwise participate. >>> >> >> Seems I was right. >> >> As usual Maru > > William-- > > Hi. I give up, what do you mean? > It's been very quiet here since the thought police manifesto. Obvious Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Debunking bullshit is a thankless task. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
On 15 Oct 2008, at 02:04, David Hobby wrote: > William T Goodall wrote: >> On 20 Aug 2008, at 16:10, William T Goodall wrote: >>> I'm growing increasingly concerned that you are trying to use your >>> position on the list to intimidate and silence those with whom you >>> do >>> not agree and that this behaviour could be offensive to some who >>> might >>> otherwise participate. >>> >> >> Seems I was right. >> >> As usual Maru > > William-- > > Hi. I give up, what do you mean? > It's been very quiet here since the thought police manifesto. Obvious Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Debunking bullshit is a thankless task. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
Kevin B. O'Brien wrote: > > At this point I cannot rule out some stupid technical problem, like a > message that got caught in a queue somewhere and just now shook loose. > It *does* happen sometimes. > No, I think he means that the financial system crashed because the USA abandoned God and became an atheist country. Alberto "must stop reading the Conservapedia" Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
Dan M wrote: > Nick Wrote > >> Non sequitur? >> > > I bet Willie will insist that it was a sequitur. > > Dan M. > At this point I cannot rule out some stupid technical problem, like a message that got caught in a queue somewhere and just now shook loose. It *does* happen sometimes. Regards, -- Kevin B. O'Brien TANSTAAFL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux User #333216 "The common argument that crime is caused by poverty is a kind of slander on the poor." - H.L. Mencken ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Off-topic posting
> I'm growing increasingly concerned that you are trying to use your > position on the list to intimidate and silence those with whom you do > not agree and that this behaviour could be offensive to some who might > otherwise participate. I'm not sure who posted this and who they are referring to, but it is the responsibility of the sysop to monitor and moderate when necessary. There are many of us (including myself) who have strong opinions, but I see so problem with expressing them, as long as we avoid personal attacks, stay in context, and play fair. Those trolls (and I name no names) who don't are obviously lacking in rudimentary social skills, and will eventually be ignored by the group mind. Jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
Nick Wrote > > Non sequitur? I bet Willie will insist that it was a sequitur. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
Non sequitur? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
William T Goodall wrote: > On 20 Aug 2008, at 16:10, William T Goodall wrote: >> I'm growing increasingly concerned that you are trying to use your >> position on the list to intimidate and silence those with whom you do >> not agree and that this behaviour could be offensive to some who might >> otherwise participate. >> > > Seems I was right. > > As usual Maru William-- Hi. I give up, what do you mean? ---David Pernicious, superstitious nonsense, Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
On 20 Aug 2008, at 16:10, William T Goodall wrote: > > I'm growing increasingly concerned that you are trying to use your > position on the list to intimidate and silence those with whom you do > not agree and that this behaviour could be offensive to some who might > otherwise participate. > Seems I was right. As usual Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Debunking bullshit is a thankless task. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (wasChild-killing religion))
>I can't speak for other members of the list's silent majority. >I, for one, see another news article on some cult or its members run amok,yawn, and hit Delete. I second that lack of emotion. c ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))
At 09:33 AM Thursday 8/21/2008, Lance A. Brown wrote: >Ronn! Blankenship wrote: > > If they are indeed _silent_, what makes you think they agree with you? > >He's a mind reader. Doesn't believe in religion, but does believe in >telepathy. :-) > >The Amazing William Maru > >--[Lance] I was being ***really*** nice and not saying exactly that. Telepathy Works Both Ways Maru . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))
On 21 Aug 2008, at 18:53, Olin Elliott wrote: > The list has now been dominated by this discusion for much longer > than seems reasonable. It is much more distracting than William's > posts. It does seem an enormous amount of fuss about one or two posts per week. That's why I don't believe the reasons given for it. Occam's Razor Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ I think a case can be made that faith is one of the world's great evils, comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to eradicate. - Richard Dawkins ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))
The list has now been dominated by this discusion for much longer than seems reasonable. It is much more distracting than William's posts. - Original Message - From: Nick Arnett<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion<mailto:brin-l@mccmedia.com> Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 8:05 AM Subject: Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic.,monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)) On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Lance A. Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Ronn! Blankenship wrote: > > If they are indeed _silent_, what makes you think they agree with you? > > He's a mind reader. Doesn't believe in religion, but does believe in > telepathy. :-) > > The Amazing William Maru LOL! Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l<http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l> ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
On 21 Aug 2008, at 18:13, Max Battcher wrote: > William T Goodall wrote: >> There are no 'technical or procedural' reasons for objecting to my >> posts on the matter of religion: it's an attempt by some to silence >> the expression of views they don't like plain and simple. > > Are you kidding? This is entirely about technical/procedural > objections! It's rude and against many internet taboos to re-post a > referenced article in it's entirety to a mailing list, because it > wastes > everyone's time and bandwidth. If someone is interested in an article > they can follow the link you send. Actually on this list, because historically many members objected to content from sites that required registration/cookies and other kinds of tracking, quoting the relevant parts of the linked article was considered polite rather than taboo and I am merely adhering to this community's standards on that. [snip] > > > Ouch, that may sound more hostile than intended, so let me bottom line > it: I'm probably as anti-religious as you and I would say the same > thing > for any other poster that posted similarly useless, rude posts that > don't fit the mailing list medium and would be better in some other > environment such as the aforementioned "social bookmarking" sites. > Several other posters have posted links, many with substantial quotes, on the list recently so they certainly seem to fit on this mailing list despite what you think. Convention Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ I think a case can be made that faith is one of the world's great evils, comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to eradicate. - Richard Dawkins ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
William T Goodall wrote: > There are no 'technical or procedural' reasons for objecting to my > posts on the matter of religion: it's an attempt by some to silence > the expression of views they don't like plain and simple. Are you kidding? This is entirely about technical/procedural objections! It's rude and against many internet taboos to re-post a referenced article in it's entirety to a mailing list, because it wastes everyone's time and bandwidth. If someone is interested in an article they can follow the link you send. But beyond rudeness it's a simple, clear copyright violation. The New York Times or Google News or whatever other source you've copied would be well within their rights under the law to scour the Brin-L list for William T. Goodall re-posts and require that they be purged from the archives. This isn't censorship in any form, it's basal crass commercialism: that article is worth money to them and you just ripped them off. Furthermore, this mailing list is not your personal de.licio.us/ma.gnolia/digg/google reader shared items feed for you to track interesting articles that you read in the news, this is a discussion list. If you want to start a discussion: start one. Make a point. Provide some commentary (and no, a single Maru line isn't exactly commentary). Better yet: Ask a question or two! Ouch, that may sound more hostile than intended, so let me bottom line it: I'm probably as anti-religious as you and I would say the same thing for any other poster that posted similarly useless, rude posts that don't fit the mailing list medium and would be better in some other environment such as the aforementioned "social bookmarking" sites. -- --Max Battcher-- http://www.worldmaker.net/ Don't Copy That Floppy or News Site Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
On Aug 21, 2008, at 10:57 AM, Nick Arnett wrote: > On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 8:19 AM, Bruce Bostwick > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > William's objection >> >> seems to be that the decision to moderate him > > > There has been no such decision. We remain extremely reluctant to > moderate > anybody, for the very reasons you cite. > > There is discussion, which is necessary for those member of the list > who > wish to participate in its management to participate. > > >> And as far as on-list meta-discussion is >> > concerned, can we hear some reassurance that *legitimate* comments and >> posts against organized religion that fit within the spirit of the >> list are acceptable? If it's not OK on this list to be against >> religion, I have some issues with that, especially if it's a cause >> for >> being moderated. > > > Such opinions would never be a reason for moderation as long I have > a say in > it. > > Offensiveness is not really the issue and I shouldn't have included > it in my > concerns. My real concern is the non-originality of the postings, > using up > peoples' attention on posts that add little or nothing to our > understanding > of the issue or appreciation of William's position on the subject > (which in > my mind needs no further clarification, unless it changes). > > It seems to me like "persuasion" with a blunt object, which does, at > some > point, violate our guidelines. I have never and will never decide > that on > my own, except in crystal-clear cases of spamming and such. This is > far, > far from crystal clear and hence we're talking about it. > > My hope is that some consensus will emerge and the community will have > managed the issue on its own. Judging by the responses, it seems > that the > majority finds the postings as tiresome as I do. There are plenty of > non-trivial arguments against religion. Let's see some of those > sharp tools > instead of the relentless pounding of a dull one, I say. > > Nick That's enough for me. :) "On this one we'd like to think of ourselves collectively as 'da men', sir." -- Toby Ziegler ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
On 21 Aug 2008, at 16:19, Bruce Bostwick wrote: > I haven't weighed in on this yet because I'm sort of a newbie on this > list, and there's probably history to this that I'm missing, but I'm > very familiar with lists where I'm not especailly interested in (or > necessarily agree with) every post I get on every list. Some are > offensive, some are annoying, some I'm just not interested in, and I > tune them out. I'm used to doing that, it's no big deal. Exactly. There are thousands of posts I haven't read on this list. There used to be some posters that I pretty much never read anything by but they aren't here any more. Nick's complaint is that because he is a list moderator he has to read all the posts. I guess that's just the price that comes with that job. > > > As far as this particular subject goes, I'm probably at least as anti- > religion as William, as far as my perception and opinions are > concerned. My opposition to religion is probably much more specific, > as I've learned a great deal about the more socially damaging elements > of organized religion and can name names and make pretty accurate > guesses as to where the bodies are buried, but I tend to find anti- > religious posts comforting rather than offensive, because they tell me > someone is actually paying attention and noticing that there's > something rotten in Denmark, so to speak. Long posts that are mostly > quoted content from other sources, maybe, maybe not, that's more of a > technical rule, but the overall tone not only doesn't bother me, I > welcome it. I like to see posts denouncing the pernicious poisonous filth of religion too. I find posts about prayer and faith and suchlike offensive and repulsive and feel that opposing views deserve equal consideration. > > > I find the meta-discussion considerably more distracting than the > discussion itself, because the meta-discussion brings the question > into play of silencing a contributor to the discussion, and that > *always* involves some question of whether that person is being > silenced for purely procedural reasons, which may be legitimate in > some cases, or if the person is being silenced because the owner or > moderator *personally* finds the subject matter of the discussion > offensive, which is a more serious concern for me because it begins to > hint at censorship, which I personally find far more offensive than > specific points of view on organized religion. William's objection > seems to be that the decision to moderate him is coming at a point in > the discussion that suggests the decision to moderate him is > influenced by a disagreement with the subject matter as much as any > technical or procedural reasons, if I understand his comments > correctly. If true, that's a very serious (and IMHO legitimate) > concern that should be addressed by this meta-discussion if it > continues. There are no 'technical or procedural' reasons for objecting to my posts on the matter of religion: it's an attempt by some to silence the expression of views they don't like plain and simple. Pernicious Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ I think a case can be made that faith is one of the world's great evils, comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to eradicate. - Richard Dawkins ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 8:19 AM, Bruce Bostwick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: William's objection > > seems to be that the decision to moderate him There has been no such decision. We remain extremely reluctant to moderate anybody, for the very reasons you cite. There is discussion, which is necessary for those member of the list who wish to participate in its management to participate. > And as far as on-list meta-discussion is > concerned, can we hear some reassurance that *legitimate* comments and > posts against organized religion that fit within the spirit of the > list are acceptable? If it's not OK on this list to be against > religion, I have some issues with that, especially if it's a cause for > being moderated. Such opinions would never be a reason for moderation as long I have a say in it. Offensiveness is not really the issue and I shouldn't have included it in my concerns. My real concern is the non-originality of the postings, using up peoples' attention on posts that add little or nothing to our understanding of the issue or appreciation of William's position on the subject (which in my mind needs no further clarification, unless it changes). It seems to me like "persuasion" with a blunt object, which does, at some point, violate our guidelines. I have never and will never decide that on my own, except in crystal-clear cases of spamming and such. This is far, far from crystal clear and hence we're talking about it. My hope is that some consensus will emerge and the community will have managed the issue on its own. Judging by the responses, it seems that the majority finds the postings as tiresome as I do. There are plenty of non-trivial arguments against religion. Let's see some of those sharp tools instead of the relentless pounding of a dull one, I say. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
I haven't weighed in on this yet because I'm sort of a newbie on this list, and there's probably history to this that I'm missing, but I'm very familiar with lists where I'm not especailly interested in (or necessarily agree with) every post I get on every list. Some are offensive, some are annoying, some I'm just not interested in, and I tune them out. I'm used to doing that, it's no big deal. As far as this particular subject goes, I'm probably at least as anti- religion as William, as far as my perception and opinions are concerned. My opposition to religion is probably much more specific, as I've learned a great deal about the more socially damaging elements of organized religion and can name names and make pretty accurate guesses as to where the bodies are buried, but I tend to find anti- religious posts comforting rather than offensive, because they tell me someone is actually paying attention and noticing that there's something rotten in Denmark, so to speak. Long posts that are mostly quoted content from other sources, maybe, maybe not, that's more of a technical rule, but the overall tone not only doesn't bother me, I welcome it. I find the meta-discussion considerably more distracting than the discussion itself, because the meta-discussion brings the question into play of silencing a contributor to the discussion, and that *always* involves some question of whether that person is being silenced for purely procedural reasons, which may be legitimate in some cases, or if the person is being silenced because the owner or moderator *personally* finds the subject matter of the discussion offensive, which is a more serious concern for me because it begins to hint at censorship, which I personally find far more offensive than specific points of view on organized religion. William's objection seems to be that the decision to moderate him is coming at a point in the discussion that suggests the decision to moderate him is influenced by a disagreement with the subject matter as much as any technical or procedural reasons, if I understand his comments correctly. If true, that's a very serious (and IMHO legitimate) concern that should be addressed by this meta-discussion if it continues. I'm only an ordinary list participant, but I've seen this sort of meta- discussion bog down or even kill email discussion lists. Can we leave well enough alone, or take the more detailed discussion of technical/ procedural issues offlist? And as far as on-list meta-discussion is concerned, can we hear some reassurance that *legitimate* comments and posts against organized religion that fit within the spirit of the list are acceptable? If it's not OK on this list to be against religion, I have some issues with that, especially if it's a cause for being moderated. On Aug 20, 2008, at 9:12 AM, Nick Arnett wrote: > This is not a discussion list about religion. I don't think we've > ever > moderated anybody for frequent off-topic posting, but I'm growing > increasingly concerned that many of your postings are a distraction > and > offensive to some who might otherwise participate. Others,including > me, are > just plain bored with it, since you haven't written anything new on > the > topic for a long, long time. "I'm probably not a typical Texan in that I don't hunt. I fish, but I don't hunt. And it has nothing to do with how I think it might somehow be more holy to eat meat that's been bludgeoned to death by someone else, that's not it. It's really early in the morning, it's really cold outside, and...I don't wanna go." -- Ron White ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))
On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 7:33 AM, Lance A. Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > Ronn! Blankenship wrote: > > If they are indeed _silent_, what makes you think they agree with you? > > He's a mind reader. Doesn't believe in religion, but does believe in > telepathy. :-) > > The Amazing William Maru LOL! Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))
Ronn! Blankenship wrote: > If they are indeed _silent_, what makes you think they agree with you? He's a mind reader. Doesn't believe in religion, but does believe in telepathy. :-) The Amazing William Maru --[Lance] -- GPG Fingerprint: 409B A409 A38D 92BF 15D9 6EEE 9A82 F2AC 69AC 07B9 CACert.org Assurer ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))
Pat Mathews wrote: > I can't speak for other members of the list's silent majority. I, for > one, see another news article on some cult or its members run > amok,yawn, and hit Delete. Ditto. --[Lance] -- GPG Fingerprint: 409B A409 A38D 92BF 15D9 6EEE 9A82 F2AC 69AC 07B9 CACert.org Assurer ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))
At 08:38 AM Thursday 8/21/2008, William T Goodall wrote: >On 21 Aug 2008, at 14:07, Pat Mathews wrote: > > > > > I can't speak for other members of the list's silent majority. I, > > for one, see another news article on some cult or its members run > > amok,yawn, and hit Delete. > > > > Just thought you'd want to know. > > > >What makes you think you're part of the list's silent majority? If they are indeed _silent_, what makes you think they agree with you? . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))
On 21 Aug 2008, at 14:07, Pat Mathews wrote: > > I can't speak for other members of the list's silent majority. I, > for one, see another news article on some cult or its members run > amok,yawn, and hit Delete. > > Just thought you'd want to know. > What makes you think you're part of the list's silent majority? Contradiction Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Theists cannot be trusted as they believe that right and wrong are the arbitrary proclamations of invisible demons. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))
I can't speak for other members of the list's silent majority. I, for one, see another news article on some cult or its members run amok,yawn, and hit Delete. Just thought you'd want to know. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: brin-l@mccmedia.com > Subject: Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was > Child-killing religion)) > Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:55:55 +0100 > > > On 21 Aug 2008, at 11:04, Charlie Bell wrote: > > > > > On 21/08/2008, at 7:48 PM, William T Goodall wrote: > >> > >> Newness is a rather high standard to set. Most of the arguments are > >> quite old but still not settled. > > > > But you're not arguing, you're just posting third party articles that > > reinforce your worldview. > > What's wrong with that? > > > > >> > >> The silent majority on the list love reading my posts about the > >> pernicious evil of religion. I don't think a couple of whiners should > >> get to dictate to everybody else what gets posted here. > > > > I mostly agree with your worldview, but I'm still tired of seeing > > articles I've mostly read elsewhere reprinted in full here by you. > > But people who don't agree may not have seen them. > > > > > > >> One of the primary community values of this list is diversity of > >> opinion. > > > > Yes, but we all know yours already. > > > > > Well maybe we can just all post our geek codes and then shut the > list :-) > > Expression Maru > > -- > William T Goodall > Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk > Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ > > "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit > atrocities." ~Voltaire. > > ___ > http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
On 21 Aug 2008, at 00:47, Kevin B. O'Brien wrote: > William T Goodall wrote: >> On 20 Aug 2008, at 16:13, Olin Elliott wrote: >> >> >>> By that description, 99% of the postings are off topic. >>> >>> >> >> >> And I'm not even the most frequent poster! >> > You are, however, the most monotonous and boring. > I like to excel at everything I do. Mostest Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ I think a case can be made that faith is one of the world's great evils, comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to eradicate. - Richard Dawkins ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))
On 21 Aug 2008, at 11:04, Charlie Bell wrote: > > On 21/08/2008, at 7:48 PM, William T Goodall wrote: >> >> Newness is a rather high standard to set. Most of the arguments are >> quite old but still not settled. > > But you're not arguing, you're just posting third party articles that > reinforce your worldview. What's wrong with that? > >> >> The silent majority on the list love reading my posts about the >> pernicious evil of religion. I don't think a couple of whiners should >> get to dictate to everybody else what gets posted here. > > I mostly agree with your worldview, but I'm still tired of seeing > articles I've mostly read elsewhere reprinted in full here by you. But people who don't agree may not have seen them. > > >> One of the primary community values of this list is diversity of >> opinion. > > Yes, but we all know yours already. > Well maybe we can just all post our geek codes and then shut the list :-) Expression Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." ~Voltaire. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
William T Goodall wrote: > On 20 Aug 2008, at 16:13, Olin Elliott wrote: > > >> By that description, 99% of the postings are off topic. >> >> > > > And I'm not even the most frequent poster! > You are, however, the most monotonous and boring. -- Kevin B. O'Brien TANSTAAFL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux User #333216 "Language is a virus from outer space." -- William S. Burroughs ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))
On 21/08/2008, at 7:48 PM, William T Goodall wrote: > > Newness is a rather high standard to set. Most of the arguments are > quite old but still not settled. But you're not arguing, you're just posting third party articles that reinforce your worldview. > > The silent majority on the list love reading my posts about the > pernicious evil of religion. I don't think a couple of whiners should > get to dictate to everybody else what gets posted here. I mostly agree with your worldview, but I'm still tired of seeing articles I've mostly read elsewhere reprinted in full here by you. > One of the primary community values of this list is diversity of > opinion. Yes, but we all know yours already. Charlie. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))
On 20 Aug 2008, at 21:04, Dave Land wrote: > William, > > If you have something new to contribute to the discussion, I, for one, > welcome it. Newness is a rather high standard to set. Most of the arguments are quite old but still not settled. > > > If you have more of the same with which to spam the list, then I, for > one, do not. > > I know that I can simply skip or delete your messages, but where is > the spirit of IAAMOAC, forcing your fellow list-mates to delete all or > most of your messages? The silent majority on the list love reading my posts about the pernicious evil of religion. I don't think a couple of whiners should get to dictate to everybody else what gets posted here. > > > Please, in the interests of community values, stop spamming the list > with your hatred of religion, about which we are all completely, > completely aware. > One of the primary community values of this list is diversity of opinion. Expression Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." ~Voltaire. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))
William, If you have something new to contribute to the discussion, I, for one, welcome it. If you have more of the same with which to spam the list, then I, for one, do not. I know that I can simply skip or delete your messages, but where is the spirit of IAAMOAC, forcing your fellow list-mates to delete all or most of your messages? Please, in the interests of community values, stop spamming the list with your hatred of religion, about which we are all completely, completely aware. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))
William T Goodall wrote: > On 20 Aug 2008, at 15:12, Nick Arnett wrote: > >> William, >> This is not a discussion list about religion. I don't think we've >> ever >> moderated anybody for frequent off-topic posting, but I'm growing >> increasingly concerned that many of your postings are a distraction >> and >> offensive to some who might otherwise participate. Others,including >> me, are >> just plain bored with it, since you haven't written anything new on >> the >> topic for a long, long time. >> > > I think it's clear than Nick's behaviour here is quite inappropriate > and deserves censure in the strongest terms. What happened to IAAMOAC? > > It's clear Nick doesn't like my opinions. It's even clearer that he's > abusing his position in the most egregious manner and should apologise > to me and the list for his outburst. William-- Hey, I know you've been posting stuff like that for ages. Maybe it just stands out more when there aren't many other posts. I think it's O.K. if you post the stuff, but it's really one notch up from trolling. To that extent, I'm on your side. On the other hand, I think Nick was voicing a valid concern. Asking him to apologize for that is pushing it. ---David Evil pernicious nonsense, Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))
William T Goodall wrote: > > I think it's clear than Nick's behaviour here is quite inappropriate > and deserves censure in the strongest terms. What happened to IAAMOAC? > > It's clear Nick doesn't like my opinions. It's even clearer that > he's abusing his position in the most egregious manner and should > apologise to me and the list for his outburst. > The problem, William, is that your complain is based on the (false) assumption that the list is a democratic place, with elected representatives, and peer judgement. It's not. Someone pays to mantain it, so it's a plutocracy. In a plutocracy, the shareholders have absolute power to ban whoever they want. Another example is the Wikipedia. There is an appearance of democracy there, with people happily engaging in discussions and elections, with the delusion that there's free speech and democracy. In fact, it has an owner, and whenever he (or she or them or Them(tm)) decide, they will close everything and turn it into a paysite. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
Nick Arnett wrote: > Your anti-religious postings are trivial. That's the problem. Science > versus religion is a perfectly reasonable topic here. That's not what > you're offering us. > I think I am seeing both sides to some degree. I have unsubbed from other lists because of people who couldn't stop beating a dead horse, and I can see that it might have that effect on some folks here. But I also tend to think that unless there is a wide-spread reaction I would leave the other guy alone. As a middle ground (perhaps) folks can always use a bozo-filter to get rid of his posts. Regards, -- Kevin B. O'Brien TANSTAAFL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux User #333216 "Democracy means government by the uneducated, while aristocracy means government by the badly educated." -- G.K. Chesterton ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Off-topic...
> William, > This is not a discussion list about religion. I don't > think we've ever > moderated anybody for frequent off-topic posting, but > I'm growing > increasingly concerned that many of your postings are a > distraction and > offensive to some who might otherwise participate. > Others,including me, are > just plain bored with it, since you haven't written > anything new on the > topic for a long, long time. > As a reminder, here is the list description: > "This list is a community of people who are interested > in the writings > of David Brin and his fellow "Killer Bees" -- > Gregory Benford, Greg > Bear... and recently inducted members Stephen Baxter and > Vernor > Vinge. These authors represent the portion of the science > fiction genre that takes science seriously, emphasizing > careful thought experiments about plausible tomorrows. " The Brin-L Mailing List exists for the discussion of matters pertaining to the writings of Drs. Brin and Benford, AND topics of interest to list members. As members of a civilization, these are the guidelines we agree to live under: We post every message we write as if we were going to read it aloud in front of the whole group. We give each other the benefit of the doubt. If you think you've been offended, read the offending message > again... ALOUD... TWICE! Consider that there may be a milder way to interpret the remark. Then ASK the perpetrator if they meant the worse version. Ask others if they saw it that way. The word is "Paraphrase." (added by David Brin, 9/16/02) We sign our messages with our name and e-mail address. We are tolerant of subject threads that bore us to death. We keep subject lines appropriate to the contents of the message. We do NOT include the entire message to which we are replying. We DO include a few lines if our reply can't stand on its own. We DO keep attributions correctly assigned to the original poster. We do NOT send terse, one line replies. We use emphasis to make our comments clear. (Stars, smilies, etc.) We use white space and keep our paragraphs short. We keep our line length below 80 characters. If our reply is more appropriately directed only at the original poster, we don't send it to the entire list. If our message is funny, frivolous, humourous, or is generally silly in nature, we add a "Silly/Humor" flag to the subject line so others can identify it easily. We flag long messages with "GLL", "ELL" or "L3" in the subject line. (In deference to our Grand Past Alpha Mails this stands for "Gord like length", "Eythain like length" or "Lazh like length".) We agree that: Questions are welcome. Extensive discussions that get into the nitty-gritty of the subject are welcome. Funny, silly, frivolous, amusing, playful, joking, cheerful postings are welcome. Original humor, especially if it pertains to an existing thread, is quite welcome. Forwarding blanket humor from other sources is discouraged, but not forbidden. We are a multilingual group, and as such we tolerate mistakes and idiosyncracies when they show up on the list in English (American English). We remember that some folks may not be the best typists around, and tolerate those mistakes as well. We all will kindly answer any questions others have about our native language in a friendly manner. Brin and Benford ROCK. =+)) Trevor Sands is the best screen writer ever. Most of the time we think Iain Banks is pretty cool, too. We will further endeavor to remember, as David Brin says, to "Remind yourself, now and then, to say the following phrase: 'I am a member of a civilization.' (IAAMOAC). Our society has its flaws, but if you ponder history, and cantankerous human nature, it's astonishing how far we've come. We just don't say IAAMOAC often enough. " We further agree that: Personal attacks, whether direct or indirect are not welcome. These should be handled off list, and if you disagree with some controversial point, direct the attack at the argument, not the person. Abusive or inflammatory language is not welcome. Profanity is not welcome. Chain letters are not welcome. Mail bombs to each other are not welcome. The Listowners have the right to remove someone who does not wish to comport themselves in a manner concordant with our civilization. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Apology (was Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion))
On 20 Aug 2008, at 15:12, Nick Arnett wrote: > William, > This is not a discussion list about religion. I don't think we've > ever > moderated anybody for frequent off-topic posting, but I'm growing > increasingly concerned that many of your postings are a distraction > and > offensive to some who might otherwise participate. Others,including > me, are > just plain bored with it, since you haven't written anything new on > the > topic for a long, long time. > I think it's clear than Nick's behaviour here is quite inappropriate and deserves censure in the strongest terms. What happened to IAAMOAC? It's clear Nick doesn't like my opinions. It's even clearer that he's abusing his position in the most egregious manner and should apologise to me and the list for his outburst. Civil Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." ~Voltaire. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
On 20 Aug 2008, at 16:13, Olin Elliott wrote: > By that description, 99% of the postings are off topic. > And I'm not even the most frequent poster! Agenda Maru "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish." - Albert Einstein -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
On 20 Aug 2008, at 16:22, Nick Arnett wrote: > On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 8:10 AM, William T Goodall <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >wrote: >> >> >> Don't read it then. I certainly don't read every post to this list. > > > Bzzzt. As you know, I am one of the list managers and as a group, > we do and > we will read all the messages. Maybe you should stop being a list manager if it's too taxing for you. > > >> >> I'm growing increasingly concerned that you are trying to use your >> position on the list to intimidate and silence those with whom you do >> not agree and that this behaviour could be offensive to some who >> might >> otherwise participate. > > > Gee, who could have seen that response coming? > > And... baloney. > > Your anti-religious postings are trivial. That's the problem. > Science > versus religion is a perfectly reasonable topic here. That's not what > you're offering us. > Those are your opinions with which I disagree. QED Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." ~Voltaire. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 8:10 AM, William T Goodall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > > > Don't read it then. I certainly don't read every post to this list. Bzzzt. As you know, I am one of the list managers and as a group, we do and we will read all the messages. > > I'm growing increasingly concerned that you are trying to use your > position on the list to intimidate and silence those with whom you do > not agree and that this behaviour could be offensive to some who might > otherwise participate. Gee, who could have seen that response coming? And... baloney. Your anti-religious postings are trivial. That's the problem. Science versus religion is a perfectly reasonable topic here. That's not what you're offering us. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
By that description, 99% of the postings are off topic. Olin - Original Message - From: Nick Arnett<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion<mailto:brin-l@mccmedia.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 7:12 AM Subject: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion) William, This is not a discussion list about religion. I don't think we've ever moderated anybody for frequent off-topic posting, but I'm growing increasingly concerned that many of your postings are a distraction and offensive to some who might otherwise participate. Others,including me, are just plain bored with it, since you haven't written anything new on the topic for a long, long time. As a reminder, here is the list description: "This list is a community of people who are interested in the writings of David Brin and his fellow "Killer Bees" -- Gregory Benford, Greg Bear... and recently inducted members Stephen Baxter and Vernor Vinge. These authors represent the portion of the science fiction genre that takes science seriously, emphasizing careful thought experiments about plausible tomorrows. " On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 4:47 AM, William T Goodall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5gOpmWyOXR5j94s1rzxyBpDv886JQ<http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5gOpmWyOXR5j94s1rzxyBpDv886JQ> > > "Toddler 'starved to death by cult' ... Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l<http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l> ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
On 20 Aug 2008, at 15:12, Nick Arnett wrote: > William, > This is not a discussion list about religion "All is Brin". > . I don't think we've ever > moderated anybody for frequent off-topic posting, but I'm growing > increasingly concerned that many of your postings are a distraction > and > offensive to some who might otherwise participate. On 22 Dec 2003, at 04:03, Doug Pensinger wrote: > > With all due respect, if we stopped talking about everything that > makes someone upset, we may as well shut down the list because we > wouldn't even be able to discuss the weather. > Others,including me, are > just plain bored with it, since you haven't written anything new on > the > topic for a long, long time. Don't read it then. I certainly don't read every post to this list. I'm growing increasingly concerned that you are trying to use your position on the list to intimidate and silence those with whom you do not agree and that this behaviour could be offensive to some who might otherwise participate. Watchmen Maru -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." ~Voltaire. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Off-topic., monotonous posting (was Child-killing religion)
William, This is not a discussion list about religion. I don't think we've ever moderated anybody for frequent off-topic posting, but I'm growing increasingly concerned that many of your postings are a distraction and offensive to some who might otherwise participate. Others,including me, are just plain bored with it, since you haven't written anything new on the topic for a long, long time. As a reminder, here is the list description: "This list is a community of people who are interested in the writings of David Brin and his fellow "Killer Bees" -- Gregory Benford, Greg Bear... and recently inducted members Stephen Baxter and Vernor Vinge. These authors represent the portion of the science fiction genre that takes science seriously, emphasizing careful thought experiments about plausible tomorrows. " On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 4:47 AM, William T Goodall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5gOpmWyOXR5j94s1rzxyBpDv886JQ > > "Toddler 'starved to death by cult' ... Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Off-Topic: Wealthy couples travel to U.S. to choose baby's sex
[WARNING: OFF-TOPIC ALERT!!! - SEE BELOW AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!] Pat wrote: > > The ones I have met have each had their own soul, and from all > accounts, that's even true of conjoined twins. The rule may be, one > soul per functioning head. > Experiences with people who have the two brain hemispheres separated suggest that there are two souls for each head - whatever that means :-) [WARNING: OFF-TOPIC ALERT!!!] Kiln People has some nice discussions about the uniqueness of the soul Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Stross: Accelerando/off topic
On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:01:29 -0500Ronn!Blankenship >At 06:19 PM Tuesday 6/21/2005, Leonard Matusik wrote: >>On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:48:22 -0400 Maru Dubshininki wrote: >> > >>Might, assuming they were serial intelligences. If instead they ran > >>many minds in parallel, that might slow things down enough to make > >>conversation possible- or they could simply delegate few enough > >>resources to the portion of the mind handling the conversation that it > >>ran human-real-time. >> >> >>..a bit off topic, but there was a (I think)StarTrek novelle like that, >>where 3 AI's ran the galactic library and operate parallel... and one goes >>rouge, >while the others go blanc and bleu? Well, it's obvious that Ron doesn't know the answer as he's acting such the roguer, but if anyone else knows the answer... ;;) Leonard Matusik [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l - Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: off topic: WEb Video
On Mar 15, 2005, at 10:44 AM, Warren Ockrassa wrote: On Mar 14, 2005, at 11:22 PM, Dave Land wrote: I'm actually quite astounded at how easy Apple has made it to get a web server up and running on Mac OS X You mean Apache on BSD? ;) Yes, but the point is, you don't have to know that to make it work. You just turn on "Personal Web Sharing." What I find especially pleasant about Mac OS X is that, as a power user (I speek geek) I can do all sorts of wonderful Unixy things with it, but regular Jo(e)s can access a lot of that power without knowing much of anything. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: off topic: WEb Video
On Mar 14, 2005, at 11:22 PM, Dave Land wrote: I'm actually quite astounded at how easy Apple has made it to get a web server up and running on Mac OS X You mean Apache on BSD? ;) -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress "The Seven-Year Mirror" http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: off topic: WEb Video
Warren, On Mar 14, 2005, at 5:20 PM, Dave Land wrote: The option to include text stating a right-click will save is probably the optimal one. And doesn't violate How The Web Works, either, although it does activate Donald Norman's "If you have to explain it, it is designed wrong" meme. Well, maybe. The question is which "it" is misdesigned? The level of cruft required to get ANY web site to function is always tremendous. You works with what you gots. Having managed web services from tiny little Open Source news sites to the massive www.apple.com and java.sun.com, I completely agree with you that "it" is quite misdesigned. The browser wars, along with a bunch of other proprietary bulldung along the way have made Sir TBL's beautiful vision a nightmare of config files and workarounds. I'm actually quite astounded at how easy Apple has made it to get a web server up and running on Mac OS X, but I think people here know that I'm never short on praise for my former employer... (also, by the way, the former employer of the very same Don Norman of whom I spoke). Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: off topic: WEb Video
On Mar 14, 2005, at 5:20 PM, Dave Land wrote: The option to include text stating a right-click will save is probably the optimal one. And doesn't violate How The Web Works, either, although it does activate Donald Norman's "If you have to explain it, it is designed wrong" meme. Well, maybe. The question is which "it" is misdesigned? The level of cruft required to get ANY web site to function is always tremendous. You works with what you gots. -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress "The Seven-Year Mirror" http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: off topic: WEb Video
On Mar 14, 2005, at 3:19 PM, Warren Ockrassa wrote: On Mar 14, 2005, at 4:06 PM, maru wrote: Or, he could always just mirror it elsewhere, or make it a torrent (if say it was a large video file). Disadvantage there is the "But I don't want to DL a BT client just to see this video" whine. Reminds me of the following: We had a data-interchange problem. We decided to use XML. Now we had two problems. The option to include text stating a right-click will save is probably the optimal one. And doesn't violate How The Web Works, either, although it does activate Donald Norman's "If you have to explain it, it is designed wrong" meme. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: off topic: WEb Video
On Mar 14, 2005, at 4:06 PM, maru wrote: Or, he could always just mirror it elsewhere, or make it a torrent (if say it was a large video file). Disadvantage there is the "But I don't want to DL a BT client just to see this video" whine. The option to include text stating a right-click will save is probably the optimal one. -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress "The Seven-Year Mirror" http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: off topic: WEb Video
Dave Land wrote: Nick, Received a question from a friend of mine that is starting to do up a website. And he does not want the video to stream off the site. Ive tried a few things, and it seems that for some reason any v-clip that I try to link to, it will auto launch the required program, with the exception being .asf files, which prompt the open or save features. Is there anyone here that may know of a way of forcing the file to be downloaded, short of compressing it into a zip file. Or, he could always just mirror it elsewhere, or make it a torrent (if say it was a large video file). ~Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: off topic: WEb Video
Nick, Received a question from a friend of mine that is starting to do up a website. And he does not want the video to stream off the site. Ive tried a few things, and it seems that for some reason any v-clip that I try to link to, it will auto launch the required program, with the exception being .asf files, which prompt the open or save features. Is there anyone here that may know of a way of forcing the file to be downloaded, short of compressing it into a zip file. Yes, but it is a Skanky Hack[tm], and will accomplish the desired effect *and* make your friend look like a complete clod of a webmaster all in one swell foop. Bottom line: you're asking how to fix something that isn't broken. Browsers have just gotten so smart that they will now begin playing the video clip while it's being downloaded. See, the files are *not* being "streamed" by your friend's web server -- they are being served, per request. The only way you can keep the load off the server is to get rid of the files or serve them from another server. No matter what you do, if your friend wants people to be able to download the clips from his server, his server is going to have to -- ahem -- serve them. Better is to add some instructive text to the page bearing the video links that says something to the effect of "To download these clips, rather than play them in your browser, right-click the video link (control-click on Macintosh) and choose 'Save Link As ...' from the menu that appears." That said... Browsers typically display a save dialog when they either encounter either a known MIME type that has been set to 'save to file', or an unknown MIME type that they don't know how to handle. By default, the web server "does the right thing" by setting the MIME type of the video clip to something like "video/mpeg". This information is sent in the http headers and is used by the browser to "do the right thing" as just described with the video. Thus, you could (mis)configure the web server to serve up the video clip with either of the "wrong" MIME types just described. Most browsers have the known MIME type "application/octet-stream" set to "save to file," so you could misconfigure the server to use that MIME type for video clips. That should trigger a "save to file" dialog, but has the slight disadvantage of freaking out some portion of the population who may think you're trying to give them a virus. Some dolts misconfigure their server with he MIME type to "text/plain" for videos, in which case the browser displays the content of the video file as a jumble of ugly text. Don't do that. Finally, you could set it to an unknown MIME type (some suggest the totally bogus 'application/force-download'), which will pop up the "save" dialog. In this case, you might as well set the MIME type to 'idiot/webmaster' for all the difference that makes. Bear in mind that by misidentifying the MIME type in either of these ways, you are doing "the wrong thing," undermining the Way The Web Works[tm], and creating just another Bad User Experience[tm]. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
off topic: WEb Video
Received a question from a friend of mine that is starting to do up a website. And he does not want the video to stream off the site. Ive tried a few things, and it seems that for some reason any v-clip that I try to link to, it will auto launch the required program, with the exception being .asf files, which prompt the open or save features. Is there anyone here that may know of a way of forcing the file to be downloaded, short of compressing it into a zip file. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Off topic ramble of a bookseller.
Media Type: book Title: Leigh Hunt Author: Thompson, James R. Condition: Good. No dust jacket. Ex-Library. Full X-lib. marks, little or no evidence of circulation. Twayne's English authors series; TEAS 210. Unknown printing. 176 p. : port. ; 21 cm. Hard cover Includes index. Bibliography: p. 167-172. Alibris I.D.: 1700077270 Item I.D.: AIM_1700077270 P.N. #: 6835230-1 Shelf Loc.: Z6 3D R This is a cut/paste off of an Alibris sales notice. Notice the last line. This is the very first time this line has appeared. The book is located on the sixth white bookshelf in the renal storage room (z6) Third shelf down (3D) The right box of three. (R) It took TWO YEARS of complaining to get them to put the Shelf Location code into the sales notices. Up until today, I had to go back online, open up the program, and cut paste the number just to get them to tell me where my book was located. The entry and retrieval of information can only be done online. The database in my own computer is the system Alibris stopped using three years ago. William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: (Off Topic) neo-newbie tests the software
On Tue, Dec 17, 2002 at 06:14:37PM -0500, just john wrote: > From: > > Toward > > Beside > > From > > Fromme, Ethan > > Fromaldehyde (sic) to all de other hyde ... > > Something non-frommish > > Fromage, le Grand >From >From someone >From [EMAIL PROTECTED] at 10:03 From >From nobody -- "Erik Reuter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: (Off Topic) neo-newbie tests the software
From: Toward Beside From Fromme, Ethan Fromaldehyde (sic) to all de other hyde ... Something non-frommish Fromage, le Grand >just john wrote: >> >> Sorry to send this to the list, but I'm checking on something odd that >> happened to my last message. (No, not the version I accidentally sent >> under another, non-subscribed id.) >> >> It looked like the list software stuck a gratuitous greater-than character >> on everything before the last bit I quoted. > >Did the lines that got the ">" stuck on them start with the word >"from"? If so, that's just an interesting feature of e-mail. Erik and >at least one other party will be happy to discuss it, I'm pretty sure. >>:) > > Julia > >who might be wrong, but what the hey... Yup, what you said! Thanks for understanding. --- * [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml * ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: (Off Topic) neo-newbie tests the software
just john wrote: > > Sorry to send this to the list, but I'm checking on something odd that > happened to my last message. (No, not the version I accidentally sent > under another, non-subscribed id.) > > It looked like the list software stuck a gratuitous greater-than character > on everything before the last bit I quoted. Did the lines that got the ">" stuck on them start with the word "from"? If so, that's just an interesting feature of e-mail. Erik and at least one other party will be happy to discuss it, I'm pretty sure. >:) Julia who might be wrong, but what the hey... ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: (Off Topic) neo-newbie tests the software
Hmmm. One last test, this time with the greater-thans without spaces. (So everything before the following line with "Sorry" is being typed sans greater-thans.): >Sorry to send this to the list, but I'm checking on something odd that >happened to my last message. (No, not the version I accidentally sent >under another, non-subscribed id.) > I promise to try to stop QAing this stuff in public from now on. --- * [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml * ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
(Off Topic) neo-newbie tests the software
Sorry to send this to the list, but I'm checking on something odd that happened to my last message. (No, not the version I accidentally sent under another, non-subscribed id.) It looked like the list software stuck a gratuitous greater-than character on everything before the last bit I quoted. To test this, I'm typing these two paragraphs with no greater-than characters, then I will post two lines with two such characters at their beginnings. >> Here's a line. >> Here's another such line. Thank you for your patience. For those of you who've read this far, this reminds me of when I fed a usenet cascade through a very basic speech program. With all the ">> > >>>" and variations, it started sounding like a chant: Greater than Greater than space Greater than Greater than space Greater than space Greater than Greater than space Greater than space ... which was obviously blasphemy to one raised on Star Trek. End of test. Again, apologies. --- * [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://just-john.com/cn/rfe.shtml * ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off Topic: Niven query for the Tolkien mailing list
At 05:25 AM 11/22/02, Alberto Monteiro wrote: IIRC, Niven's story "The Coldest Place" was not placed in Pluto [and I won't spoil it here O:-)]. Am I right? IIRC, "Wait It Out" is the Niven story set on Pluto. --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off Topic: Niven query for the Tolkien mailing list
- Original Message - From: "Alberto Monteiro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 5:25 AM Subject: Off Topic: Niven query for the Tolkien mailing list > IIRC, Niven's story "The Coldest Place" was not placed > in Pluto [and I won't spoil it here O:-)]. Am I right? > Off the top of my head it would be Mercury. But Steve might be able to answer that better, I think there is a thread on Larryiven-l regarding this lately. xponent Too Early Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Off Topic: Niven query for the Tolkien mailing list
IIRC, Niven's story "The Coldest Place" was not placed in Pluto [and I won't spoil it here O:-)]. Am I right? Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off topic: sled
Steve Sloan wrote: > >> What is a sled? What is the max crew of a sled? > >Have you ever seen those small vehicles that scuba divers >use, that just pull the diver along? > Maybe. But I saw lots of things in the TV, so I am not sure what you are talking about :-) > I get the impression > that that's basically what a sled is: a one-man, or one-fin, > vehicle, which is not enclosed, and basically pulls the user > along faster than he can swim. They may be able to pull more > crew, particularly in emergencies, but they're primarily > designed for one person. They have additional gadgetry > attached, including air domes, arms for the fins, etc. My > vision of Startide sleds came largely from the "Streaker Crew" > illustration by David Cherry. That picture is what I based my > own sled design on: > >http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee/uplift.html > Ok - but maybe this sled would be too simple, and Streaker would have at least one sled per crewmember. It seems that many missions in Kithrup were carried by unsledded dolphins. How many sleds would there be? At least some of them survived through _Infinity's shore_. >> What is the max speed (in decent units!) of a sled? > >If I had to guess, I'd look up the typical speed of a current >diver-pulling vehicle, and double it. Then again, I got the >impression that the sleds in the big "orca" chase scene were >moving awfully quickly, so maybe they are significantly faster >than that. > OTOH, I guess most dislocations from Streaker's landing site to Toshio's Island and the Thennanin Wreck site were done by swimming dolphins, so we have travel times of the order of 20 Earth Hours [or 1/2 Kithrup Day] Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off topic: sled
Steve Sloan II wrote: > > Alberto Monteiro wrote: > > > BTW, how fast can a dolphin swim? > > crackle... bzzt... Paging Mr. Harney, Mr. Michael Harney! ;-) He's not subbed at present. :( But I bet he'd be happy to answer the question if Steve or Alberto asked him off-list. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Off topic: sled
Alberto Monteiro wrote: > What is a sled? What is the max crew of a sled? Have you ever seen those small vehicles that scuba divers use, that just pull the diver along? I get the impression that that's basically what a sled is: a one-man, or one-fin, vehicle, which is not enclosed, and basically pulls the user along faster than he can swim. They may be able to pull more crew, particularly in emergencies, but they're primarily designed for one person. They have additional gadgetry attached, including air domes, arms for the fins, etc. My vision of Startide sleds came largely from the "Streaker Crew" illustration by David Cherry. That picture is what I based my own sled design on: http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee/uplift.html > What is the max speed (in decent units!) of a sled? If I had to guess, I'd look up the typical speed of a current diver-pulling vehicle, and double it. Then again, I got the impression that the sleds in the big "orca" chase scene were moving awfully quickly, so maybe they are significantly faster than that. > BTW, how fast can a dolphin swim? crackle... bzzt... Paging Mr. Harney, Mr. Michael Harney! ;-) __ Steve Sloan . Huntsville, Alabama => [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brin-L list pages ... http://www.sloan3d.com/brinl Chmeee's 3D Objects http://www.sloan3d.com/chmeee 3D and Drawing Galleries .. http://www.sloansteady.com Software Science Fiction, Science, and Computer Links Science fiction scans . http://www.sloan3d.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Off topic: sled
While refining my ever-promised-never-delivered Startide Rising Timeline, I came across one problem due to me not spik inglis. What is a sled? What is the max crew of a sled? What is the max speed (in decent units!) of a sled? BTW, how fast can a dolphin swim? Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
