[cctalk] Re: what to do with our "treasures"
International shipping is black magic and voodoo. I live in the US and own two cars from the other side of the Atlantic that were not sold new in the US. Because of this, I buy a lot of parts from international vendors, mostly from three in the UK. If I get stuff from them, it usually arrives in 48 hours and shipping costs are less that two day shipping from US vendors (aside from Amazon). A full exhaust system in a box taller than me arrived 40 hours after I ordered it and the shipping was $150. But from other vendors and individual sellers, shipping is expensive. And, between shipping and import duties, it is uneconomical for me to sell stuff to the UK. Some people aren't even willing to pay shipping only. I gave a VME SMD disk controller to someone in Scotland and the lowest price that I found to ship it was $90 (but they needed the controller so ...). alan P.S. A note for those within the US who need to ship something big or awkward west - I will be transporting a truck full of rally car parts from (barely) upstate NY to the Seattle area, probably via I-80, I-90, I-94, then back on I-90 at the end of August. I can make room if you have something to some vintage hardware to move. On 7/2/24 4:35 AM, Adrian Godwin via cctalk wrote: Brexit made a big difference to postage costs from EU to UK but I don't think affected US costs much. However eBay's US all-inclusive postage seemed very expensive compared with USPS, and many sellers using independent methods have now got very expensive too. I'm not sure if prices have risen to match or if there's some other influence. Chinese to UK shipments are still relatively cheap but have also risen somewhat with more sellers charging for postage. I think eBay and Aliexpress are managing (surcharging) the increased import costs that UK and other governments are imposing. I recall getting a huge 16500B from the US a few years ago for a fairly reasonable shipping cost but now just the plug-in cards have shipping prices of $100 - often more than the card. I'd be glad to find a way to access US sales at reasonable cost. Postage costs are a major factor at the moment and I rarely need things fast. On Tue, Jul 2, 2024 at 5:42 AM Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote: On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 8:28 PM ben via cctalk wrote: On 2024-07-01 6:04 p.m., Mike Stein via cctalk wrote: Hey, I sent you a motherboard from Toronto all the way to the South Pole, remember? Well, OK, via San Francisco, but It wasn't too bad then. Mike, I do remember. I still have that motherboard on the shelf over my work area at home. I never did get a stable composite adapter made down there (I had to work with the parts I had on hand). The board was fine but the output was shaky because of my adapter. The postage was just Toronto to SFO because it went via APO box. Hey there must be lots of vintage stuff at the south pole nobody ships stuff back. :) Because of the Antarctic Conservation Act of 1978, everything that goes down has to go back. There's millions of pounds of sorted waste that goes North on the cargo vessel every year, including the category "Electronic Scrap". -ethan
[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors
It isn’t simple. A company gets a lot of stuff that includes vintage computer equipment. They have no idea how to test it other than to power it on. They have no facilities to repair returned computers. But they are a business and need to make money to continue being a business. Do you really want them selling stuff at scrap prices and see things get scrapped, depending on who is looking when the item goes up for sale? About a year ago a Tatung COMPstation 40 (a SPARCstation 2 clone) came up on eBay. I have never seen one before, let alone had a chance to buy one. I negotiated the price down a bit but still had to buy a “disk” (SCSI2SD) and IDPROM and add memory from my stash to make a working computer. Six months after that an Axil 220 (a SS LX clone) came up. Again, I have never seen one before. I negotiated the 220 down to the same price as the Tatung (but it was more of a price drop from the asking price). I am still trying to get it to run (re-cap’ed the PSU, voltages look good around the board, but it doesn’t power up). A couple weeks ago, a “untested” Sun 3/80 system board and PSU came up. I offered the same as the systems above. He came down a third between the asking price and my offer. If it were something I “needed” I would have taken the offer. The next day someone else did. For some vintage computers, one has limited opportunity to purchase and may need to buy what’s available. alan > On Jun 27, 2024, at 14:49, Teo Zenios via cctalk > wrote: > > Simple really. > If you list something as used then it better work, EVERYTHING on it better > work or buyer can get a refund. > > If I have a very popular PR440FX dual Pentium Pro motherboard for sale and > wanted to list it as used I would have to check every interface on the board > to make sure it all worked or it will come back. And even then if somebody > tried to use something on the USB port (which are so early in USB life > nothing works on it) they can say its broken. The boards go for hundreds bare. > > > > -Original Message- From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk > Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2024 4:56 PM > To: cctalk@classiccmp.org > Cc: Chuck Guzis > Subject: [cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors > > I see a lot of listings with "not working or for parts" with the tag > "seller does not accept returns". I don't understand how a seller can > ask for more than scrap value in these cases, yet I see outrageous > asking prices. > > One born every minute? > > --Chuck > > -- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com
[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors
On 6/27/24 2:09 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: On Thu, 27 Jun 2024, Ali via cctalk wrote: And how does that help? Let's say seller has 98% rating what does that tell you? Or said in another way how does it affect your decision making process? I.E. would you pay 30% or even 10% more for the same item with a seller who has 100% rating (for whatever that is worth as ratings are very much manipulated by sellers and eBay). It can be important at the other end of the scale. If a seller has too many negative reviews, I read every one of those, and decide whether the risk is worthwhile. The feedback mechanism is biased towards giving positive feedback, so I read a lot of feedback comments. I bid on the item and, within my budget and what I think is reasonable, the price is what it is. Most of what I am looking for is sun3 and non-Sun SPARC systems which don't come up often. I look at what the seller has sold before to help judge whether the description is accurate. alan
[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors
> On Jun 27, 2024, at 12:53, Ali via cctalk wrote: > > >> >> Hogwash. I have attempted many times to sell stuff on ebay. Even at >> the suggestion of people I would have thought were potential buyers. >> To date, I have sold nothing. I once went back to the list that >> suggested I use ebay to report my failure only to be greeted with, >> "Well, what did you expect. You are not an established seller." >> I have tried non-computer stuff, too. I offered a Chilton Automotive >> Repair Manual for a classic car. I listed the cost of a USPS "If it >> fits, It ships" padded envelope for postage. Ebay denied my listing >> saying I was asking to much for shipping. At that point I quit trying >> to sell anything on ebay. > > Price rules first. I NEVER look at an eBay seller's rep or newness before > buying/bidding. If what you offer is a good price/value then that is all I > care about it. If you end up being a shitty seller, not packing right, or > whatever, then there is eBay Money Back Guarantee. Your trash is coming right > back to you at your expense. I may be disappointed and lose some time but I > am not losing any money on the deal so I take the risk. Sometimes it pays off > sometimes it doesn't. I am an expert occasional eBay buyer and seller. After joining in ‘97, I have a 100% positive rating with 370 feedbacks. Unless it is something I haven’t seen elsewhere, I definitely look at the rating of the seller. As a seller, I avoid eBay because of the excess fees but sometimes things will sell at enough of a premium there to absorb the fee. For some stuff, based on my conversations with other sellers, that is where the market is (anyone want to buy some signed, first edition Harlan Ellison books ;) ), so one has no choice. Most of the vintage computers that I have sold (mostly early 90s SPARC systems), I sold through group mailings lists, FB pages, etc. alan
[cctalk] Re: Seattle’s Living Computers Museum logs off for good as Paul Allen estate will auction vintage items
On 6/25/24 11:35 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On Jun 25, 2024, at 2:27 PM, brad via cctalk wrote: I'm curious what happens to items that were donated on the understanding that the museum would be a safe long term place for them?Pretty sad they couldn't make it work. There's a lot to be said for hard rules in signed contracts, though even with those you aren't necessarily safe. (There are court precedents, in the USA at least, where museums went against the explicit written terms of donations and the courts somehow came up with an excuse for approving that.) Personally, I would be very hesistant to *give* anything to a museum; the safe route is a loan, with well crafted written terms. That way you're not giving up ownership, and the main risk then becomes damage from inadequate care. (And yes, that too can happen.) Loaning was not an option at LCM. I donated some items and, when I read in the agreement that they could decide to just sell it to help fund the museum, I asked if I could loan it instead. They said that they didn't do loans. What I want to know is whether they even tried to keep the museum intact and fork off a foundation to run it like MoPOP and Flying Heritage. alan
[cctalk] Re: Vmebus
I was given a Sun 3/260 that had been sitting in an open barn for a decade. It is a 12-slot, 9U VME system. I got it running with its CPU board (25Mhz 68020) and a Sun 32M memory board (the 8M board it came with has a h/w issue). After that people started giving me Sun VME stuff. That includes a Computervision Sun3-based (so VME) CADDS Station that I need to get working at some point. alan > On Jan 29, 2024, at 20:07, Bill Degnan via cctalk > wrote: > > Anyone have a VMEbus system they use at least occasionally? If so, what > make/model/config? > Bill
[cctalk] Re: Axil 220/245 PSU
I looked around the board more and found "POR" etched on the board next to where the orange wire is soldered in and "P5" next to where the blue wire is soldered in. "P12" is etched at where the yellow (+12V) wire is soldered in. "GND" is at where the black wires are soldered in. "N12" is at where the white (-12V) wire is soldered in. How should POR be wired? alan On 12/31/23 3:33 PM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: Not really. As I said, Sun and Axil, while using the same 12-pin power connector, put the pins in different positions and color code the wires differently. For the 220, Axil also sourced the PSU from a different vendor and it is a completely different size (almost the same size as a flexatx psu). Also, only 10 of the 12 pins are used. The Sony PSU used in pizza box sun4c system changed from black (GND)/red(+5V)/yellow(+12V)/blue(-12V)/orange(+5V POR) to black/red/blue/brown/gray. The sun4c lunchboxes used the same connector except they started call the orange/gray pin SENS (is that the same as POR in Sun's usage?). The sun4c lunchbox scheme continued through the sun4m lunchboxes. The sun4m pizzaboxes went to an 18-pin power connector with the same wire color scheme, except gray became "PwrOff"/"Poff". The PSU in my Axil 320 (a SS10/SS20 clone) uses the 18-pin connector and a color scheme similar to the SS10/20 one but I haven't checked all of the pins to see if they are completely the same. On 12/31/23 2:44 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: Also a link to the lx service manual http://www.obsolyte.com/sun_lx/sparcLX.pdf Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2023, at 14:37, Wayne S wrote: Does this help? https://allpinouts.org/pinouts/connectors/power_supply/sun-sparcengine-motherboard-power-supply/ Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2023, at 13:48, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: Does anyone here have a running Axil 220 or 245 (Sun SPARCstation LX clone)? My 220 has a dead PSU and I am trying to get it working with a modern PC PSU. But I don’t know the pinout for the power connector. While the power connector is the same as used by Sun, the pinout and, aside from +5V and GND, the wire color scheme are different. I have identified 3 of the 6 wire colors and 7 of the 10 pins. The wire color scheme seemed to be a match for early sun4c but I just found something that suggests a couple wire colors are used differently. I have found that black is ground, red is +5V, and yellow is +12V. White, orange, and blue are TBD. A marking on the PSU board suggests white is -12V. Blue and orange seem to only used by a daughter board centered on a LM339 chip. But, as a software guy, I can’t tell what it does. Anyone here have any insight here that might help me? alan
[cctalk] Re: Axil 220/245 PSU
The really frustrating thing is that I found a Usenet thread from 1998, after Axil shut down, where someone asked a similar question about Axil 220/245 PSUs and a former Axil employee seems to have sent the person documents that he needed to get his system going. Sadly those documents haven't managed to make their way to bitsavers or archive.org. alan On 12/31/23 3:33 PM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: Not really. As I said, Sun and Axil, while using the same 12-pin power connector, put the pins in different positions and color code the wires differently. For the 220, Axil also sourced the PSU from a different vendor and it is a completely different size (almost the same size as a flexatx psu). Also, only 10 of the 12 pins are used. The Sony PSU used in pizza box sun4c system changed from black (GND)/red(+5V)/yellow(+12V)/blue(-12V)/orange(+5V POR) to black/red/blue/brown/gray. The sun4c lunchboxes used the same connector except they started call the orange/gray pin SENS (is that the same as POR in Sun's usage?). The sun4c lunchbox scheme continued through the sun4m lunchboxes. The sun4m pizzaboxes went to an 18-pin power connector with the same wire color scheme, except gray became "PwrOff"/"Poff". The PSU in my Axil 320 (a SS10/SS20 clone) uses the 18-pin connector and a color scheme similar to the SS10/20 one but I haven't checked all of the pins to see if they are completely the same. On 12/31/23 2:44 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: Also a link to the lx service manual http://www.obsolyte.com/sun_lx/sparcLX.pdf Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2023, at 14:37, Wayne S wrote: Does this help? https://allpinouts.org/pinouts/connectors/power_supply/sun-sparcengine-motherboard-power-supply/ Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2023, at 13:48, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: Does anyone here have a running Axil 220 or 245 (Sun SPARCstation LX clone)? My 220 has a dead PSU and I am trying to get it working with a modern PC PSU. But I don’t know the pinout for the power connector. While the power connector is the same as used by Sun, the pinout and, aside from +5V and GND, the wire color scheme are different. I have identified 3 of the 6 wire colors and 7 of the 10 pins. The wire color scheme seemed to be a match for early sun4c but I just found something that suggests a couple wire colors are used differently. I have found that black is ground, red is +5V, and yellow is +12V. White, orange, and blue are TBD. A marking on the PSU board suggests white is -12V. Blue and orange seem to only used by a daughter board centered on a LM339 chip. But, as a software guy, I can’t tell what it does. Anyone here have any insight here that might help me? alan
[cctalk] Re: Axil 220/245 PSU
Not really. As I said, Sun and Axil, while using the same 12-pin power connector, put the pins in different positions and color code the wires differently. For the 220, Axil also sourced the PSU from a different vendor and it is a completely different size (almost the same size as a flexatx psu). Also, only 10 of the 12 pins are used. The Sony PSU used in pizza box sun4c system changed from black (GND)/red(+5V)/yellow(+12V)/blue(-12V)/orange(+5V POR) to black/red/blue/brown/gray. The sun4c lunchboxes used the same connector except they started call the orange/gray pin SENS (is that the same as POR in Sun's usage?). The sun4c lunchbox scheme continued through the sun4m lunchboxes. The sun4m pizzaboxes went to an 18-pin power connector with the same wire color scheme, except gray became "PwrOff"/"Poff". The PSU in my Axil 320 (a SS10/SS20 clone) uses the 18-pin connector and a color scheme similar to the SS10/20 one but I haven't checked all of the pins to see if they are completely the same. On 12/31/23 2:44 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: Also a link to the lx service manual http://www.obsolyte.com/sun_lx/sparcLX.pdf Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2023, at 14:37, Wayne S wrote: Does this help? https://allpinouts.org/pinouts/connectors/power_supply/sun-sparcengine-motherboard-power-supply/ Sent from my iPhone On Dec 31, 2023, at 13:48, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: Does anyone here have a running Axil 220 or 245 (Sun SPARCstation LX clone)? My 220 has a dead PSU and I am trying to get it working with a modern PC PSU. But I don’t know the pinout for the power connector. While the power connector is the same as used by Sun, the pinout and, aside from +5V and GND, the wire color scheme are different. I have identified 3 of the 6 wire colors and 7 of the 10 pins. The wire color scheme seemed to be a match for early sun4c but I just found something that suggests a couple wire colors are used differently. I have found that black is ground, red is +5V, and yellow is +12V. White, orange, and blue are TBD. A marking on the PSU board suggests white is -12V. Blue and orange seem to only used by a daughter board centered on a LM339 chip. But, as a software guy, I can’t tell what it does. Anyone here have any insight here that might help me? alan
[cctalk] Axil 220/245 PSU
Does anyone here have a running Axil 220 or 245 (Sun SPARCstation LX clone)? My 220 has a dead PSU and I am trying to get it working with a modern PC PSU. But I don’t know the pinout for the power connector. While the power connector is the same as used by Sun, the pinout and, aside from +5V and GND, the wire color scheme are different. I have identified 3 of the 6 wire colors and 7 of the 10 pins. The wire color scheme seemed to be a match for early sun4c but I just found something that suggests a couple wire colors are used differently. I have found that black is ground, red is +5V, and yellow is +12V. White, orange, and blue are TBD. A marking on the PSU board suggests white is -12V. Blue and orange seem to only used by a daughter board centered on a LM339 chip. But, as a software guy, I can’t tell what it does. Anyone here have any insight here that might help me? alan
[cctalk] Re: Logic Analyzers - HP/Agilent 16700B or 1670G?
> On Aug 20, 2023, at 12:44, Glen Slick via cctalk > wrote: > > > > Where are you located? That can have a large impact on the cost of > acquiring a large 16700-series logic analyzer. For example, I have more of > those than I need in the Seattle area. A local deal might work out well, > but if shipping is involved that can quickly get too expensive. Oooh. I am in the Seattle area and have been thinking that I need a LA. alan
[cctalk] Re: Apple 1
Cool. One of packages that I supported also ran on the "Medium Systems" (B3000 and B4000 at that point). When I needed to run tests on those machines, I had to drive to the Pasadena office. There was an old-school fish bowl system operator room though it hadn't been used as such for a long time. The whole place felt like the remains of another era, which it was. Back to B1000, several years after the fact I found that, within six months of when I moved to the Seattle area, Fort Lewis had included some model of B1800 in a surplus auction. If i had only known ... On 8/5/23 7:27 PM, Mike Stein via cctalk wrote: Ah, BBM memories... My first paying programmer/operator job was on a B260 in the late 60s, the first Burroughs minicomputer in Canada IIRC. Many years later, after trying a few other careers including managing a large motorcycle dealership, I wound up back with Burroughs doing contract programming for series L machines, B1800s and B80 & 90s, cross-compiling on a B2700 at night when I had it all to myself. I too had lots of disk cartridges, cassettes, mag tapes and even punched cards and tapes, many pretty rare today, that I threw out before I realized that there were actually folks interested in that old 'junk'. Still have the operator console from that B2700 though... On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 8:04 PM Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: My holy grail is a Burroughs B1965. I was one of the last people at Burroughs (Unisys at that point) fixing bugs in the system software on B1000 (the only one in the Lake Forest, CA office; all of the sys admins knew of the B1965 there as "my" machine.). My office was filled with B1000 removable disk packs (different versions of the OS and release management of the software packages I owned). I loved working with that machine. I have boot and maintenance cassettes and a disk pack that I picked up on eBay. I should have taken and preserved more stuff before I left. On 8/5/23 4:30 PM, John Herron via cctalk wrote: For no personally good reason other than the stigma (and technically incorrect) being the first PC, the Altair 8800 is my holy Grail. Some day I'd like to have a real one but they increase in value at the same rate as my income lol so not likely going to happen. It's a neat system though and like a lot of people I like blinken lights and flip switches. Still feels science fantasy to me. Less systems being around makes all of these popular systems go up in price with supply and demand. Not sure what would make the market go down unless hundreds were found somewhere and flooded the market. But it's interesting as less kids would have heard of any of these systems so maybe history becomes less interesting and valuable at some point? On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 6:21 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: On 8/5/23 15:58, b...@techtimetraveller.com wrote: Do you have an emotional attachment to it? I just saw one sell on ebay yesterday for $6100. An e-recycler will have a nice payday on your Altair. No real attachment; it was a useful tool for a time. It took an entire weekend with coffee and little sleep to assemble it. And those really awful cheap white wires... I'd have to pull it off the shelf, clean it up and get it working again. That's not trivial and I have better uses for my time. --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: Apple 1
My holy grail is a Burroughs B1965. I was one of the last people at Burroughs (Unisys at that point) fixing bugs in the system software on B1000 (the only one in the Lake Forest, CA office; all of the sys admins knew of the B1965 there as "my" machine.). My office was filled with B1000 removable disk packs (different versions of the OS and release management of the software packages I owned). I loved working with that machine. I have boot and maintenance cassettes and a disk pack that I picked up on eBay. I should have taken and preserved more stuff before I left. On 8/5/23 4:30 PM, John Herron via cctalk wrote: For no personally good reason other than the stigma (and technically incorrect) being the first PC, the Altair 8800 is my holy Grail. Some day I'd like to have a real one but they increase in value at the same rate as my income lol so not likely going to happen. It's a neat system though and like a lot of people I like blinken lights and flip switches. Still feels science fantasy to me. Less systems being around makes all of these popular systems go up in price with supply and demand. Not sure what would make the market go down unless hundreds were found somewhere and flooded the market. But it's interesting as less kids would have heard of any of these systems so maybe history becomes less interesting and valuable at some point? On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 6:21 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 8/5/23 15:58, b...@techtimetraveller.com wrote: Do you have an emotional attachment to it? I just saw one sell on ebay yesterday for $6100. An e-recycler will have a nice payday on your Altair. No real attachment; it was a useful tool for a time. It took an entire weekend with coffee and little sleep to assemble it. And those really awful cheap white wires... I'd have to pull it off the shelf, clean it up and get it working again. That's not trivial and I have better uses for my time. --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: SCAMP at 50 (IBM 5100)
Wait! There is a SCAMP other than Burroughs' Single Chip A-Series Mainframe Processor. alan On 7/25/23 9:23 PM, Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: For anyone interested, I'm placing my SCAMP notes here! Had an incredibly great opportunity to learn more about it. https://voidstar.blog/scamp-a-review-50-years-later/
[cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums
> On Apr 25, 2023, at 06:03, Paul Koning via cctalk > wrote: > > > >> On Apr 25, 2023, at 2:16 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk >> wrote: >> >> Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a >> firesale of the assets. >> Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me >> included. > > I know of at least one donor who realized his mistake years ago, and wishes > he had lent his collection to the museum rather than donating it. That's not > foolproof (a museum may not exercise due care) but at least you don't have to > worry about the museum, or some heir, deciding to trash the stuff. Was lending ever an option with LCM? I loaned documents to an individual there but when I was donating items to the museum itself I was told that they didn’t do loaning of items. alan
[cctalk] Re: what is on topic?
> On Dec 21, 2022, at 11:05, Bill Degnan via cctalk > wrote: > > But for this list, as we are today, we're vintage of the 8-bit era vintage > computer hobbyist. Is that what is on-topic for this list? To me those were kinda cute toys in the day. But I was using CYBERs and PDPs and VAXen and Burroughs mainframes then. That stuff and JAWS-era workstations and pre-Ultra Sun boxes are what interest me. Am I in the wrong place?
[cctalk] Re: LC:M+L (Living Computer Museum)
> On Oct 31, 2022, at 06:57, Paul Koning via cctalk > wrote: > > > >> On Oct 31, 2022, at 12:13 AM, Tomasz Rola via cctalk >> wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Oct 30, 2022 at 12:34:29PM -0400, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: >>> >> [...] >>> >>> Even if it doesn't reopen, I'd hope that its collection would not >>> simply be scrapped. I imagine a lot of people here would be >>> interested in parts of it. I'm one of them... >> >> If I was a donator, I would now be writing an rather officially >> looking letter to let them know, that if they have intention to misuse >> my donation then I have intention to have it back. > > Unless you gave something to them with conditions, that's unlikely to work. > Normally, when you give a thing to another person, that person is free to do > with it what he wants. For example, if someone doesn't like a birthday > present, he can throw it away, or give it to someone else, and you have > nothing to say about that. > > And on top of that, various courts that don't like paying attention to law > and contract have in the past allowed museums to go against the explicit > written restrictions of gifts made to them. My conclusion from all that is: > if you want any chance of controlling what happens with your stuff, don't > donate it -- lend it instead on a long-term loan agreement. > I donated a few items to LCM. I was told that they didn’t do long-term loans when I brought that up on one item. The paperwork for the first item was minimal, basically just an acknowledgment of receipt. The paperwork for the last item was more complicated and included an agreement that allowed them to do lots of things with the item that I wasn’t comfortable with but that at the time I trusted them not to do without good reason. alan >paul > >
[cctalk] Re: LCM news?
> On Oct 24, 2022, at 16:55, Ian McLaughlin via cctalk > wrote: > > Did anyone else just get the semi-automated-looking email from the Living > Computer Museum reminding that the online collection is still online and how > to access it? It was a bit of a shock to me - I was aware that the online > collection was still accessible, but it just seems ‘strange’ to get an email > from them out of the blue. Oh how I wished it was some good news. > I received it as well. alan
[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012
> On Oct 19, 2022, at 11:29, Paul Koning via cctalk > wrote: > > > >>> On Oct 19, 2022, at 2:09 PM, Alan Perry via cctalk >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Oct 19, 2022, at 08:14, Fritz Mueller via cctalk >>>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On Oct 19, 2022, at 6:16 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk >>>> wrote: >>>> ...a couple of years ago I wrote an article about the invention of FM >>>> radio, in Holland in 1919 (no, not by Armstrong in the USA in the late >>>> 1920s). >>> >>> That sounds interesting, Paul — I’m only familiar with the usual >>> USA-centric Armstrong lore. Is your article available to read online >>> anywhere? >>> >>> —FritzM. >> >> I’d be interested in the article as well. >> >> There are reasons for the story of FM radio to be US- and Armstrong-centric, >> even if someone or some institution in Europe did it first. > > Yes, but suppression of the story, which is what I experienced when I tried > to update Wikipedia, is not the right answer. Is there something about any of this in the talk page for FM? I have enough Wikipedia edits that I get to vote and am willing to add something to the talk page. But this goes beyond Wikipedia. I have plenty of dead tree references that don’t mention anything before Armstrong. alan
[cctalk] Re: Great Vintage Computer Heist of 2012
> On Oct 19, 2022, at 08:14, Fritz Mueller via cctalk > wrote: > > >> On Oct 19, 2022, at 6:16 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk >> wrote: >> ...a couple of years ago I wrote an article about the invention of FM radio, >> in Holland in 1919 (no, not by Armstrong in the USA in the late 1920s). > > That sounds interesting, Paul — I’m only familiar with the usual USA-centric > Armstrong lore. Is your article available to read online anywhere? > >—FritzM. I’d be interested in the article as well. There are reasons for the story of FM radio to be US- and Armstrong-centric, even if someone or some institution in Europe did it first.
Re: Rubber bands for a TU58
On 4/28/22 8:21 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: On Thu, 28 Apr 2022, Chris Zach wrote: Quick question: I have seen references to new rubber bands for the DC600 series of carts, but is there a similar replacement part for TU58 tapes? Yes, but forget Baumgartens' Plastibands, they are practically unavailable. I got some hundred of each size of Mobilon Bands by Nisshinbo. Part number MB-9033TA-100G for DC100 size cartridges, and part number MB-15063WA-100G for the ordinary QIC cartridges. I am sorry that I bought all of the Plastibands :) alan
Re: AlphaServer 2100s available
On 4/15/22 12:46 PM, Malte Dehling wrote: On Fri 15. Apr 2022 at 11:43, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: On 4/15/22 9:53 AM, Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk wrote: >> -Original Message- >> From: cctalk On Behalf Of Alan Perry via >> cctalk >> Sent: 15 April 2022 16:00 >> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org >> Subject: Re: AlphaServer 2100s available >> >> I wouldn't expect commercial value to come into the discussion on this list. I >> am wondering what other hobbyists pay in order to gauge whether the price >> that a local recycler is asking for one (which was around >> $100) is fair. > If its working and boots up I would say that is very reasonable. > Oh, don't say that. My garage is filling up with sun3 desksides and drive pedestals :) The note on it says that it doesn't boot, but they had the same note on the Axil 320 (SS20 clone) that I got from them and it booted up fine once I put a HDD in it. Unrelated to the current discussion, but since you mention your Axil 320: do you have a way of reading the OBP PROM for that? I have been looking for that! I don't personally, but I am sure that I know someone locally who does. Send me e-mail - al...@snowmoose.com.
Re: AlphaServer 2100s available
On 4/15/22 9:53 AM, Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk wrote: -Original Message- From: cctalk On Behalf Of Alan Perry via cctalk Sent: 15 April 2022 16:00 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: AlphaServer 2100s available I wouldn't expect commercial value to come into the discussion on this list. I am wondering what other hobbyists pay in order to gauge whether the price that a local recycler is asking for one (which was around $100) is fair. If its working and boots up I would say that is very reasonable. Oh, don't say that. My garage is filling up with sun3 desksides and drive pedestals :) The note on it says that it doesn't boot, but they had the same note on the Axil 320 (SS20 clone) that I got from them and it booted up fine once I put a HDD in it.
Re: AlphaServer 2100s available
I wouldn't expect commercial value to come into the discussion on this list. I am wondering what other hobbyists pay in order to gauge whether the price that a local recycler is asking for one (which was around $100) is fair. On 4/15/22 3:30 AM, Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote: It's worth what someone is willing to pay for it and this will vary widely. I got one for EUR 20 in 2006. I didn't think this was a bargain because I was under the impression I was getting it for free before I travelled to pick it up. The previous owner had no further use for it and needed the space it was taking up. I think it's a nice machine although an Alphaserver 2100A would be nicer. It looks and sounds like a real computer except the front panel is a bit pathetic. It is great for heating the room in winter. However, it doesn't seem to have any commercial value. Regards, Peter Coghlan. What is an AlphaServer 2100 worth? There was one at RePC in Seattle a couple weeks ago and I was thinking about purchasing it. On 4/14/22 2:36 PM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote: On 12/04/2022 16:34, Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk wrote: Folks, Does no one fancy a go at this. Had zero interest... Dave (OFFLIST, I think) I'm assuming the machine is safe, at least for the moment? I've actually got less room now than when I had to let it go, so hopefully it can just sit in a corner and be a useful table end or something for a while? I'm currently struggling with a uVAX 3600 PSu and a VAX 4000 PSU, so if I ever fix those, maybe I can help with the AS2100 ... Antonio
Re: AlphaServer 2100s available
What is an AlphaServer 2100 worth? There was one at RePC in Seattle a couple weeks ago and I was thinking about purchasing it. On 4/14/22 2:36 PM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote: On 12/04/2022 16:34, Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk wrote: Folks, Does no one fancy a go at this. Had zero interest... Dave (OFFLIST, I think) I'm assuming the machine is safe, at least for the moment? I've actually got less room now than when I had to let it go, so hopefully it can just sit in a corner and be a useful table end or something for a while? I'm currently struggling with a uVAX 3600 PSu and a VAX 4000 PSU, so if I ever fix those, maybe I can help with the AS2100 ... Antonio
Re: WARNING: Clear QIC Tape Bands
> On Jan 20, 2022, at 00:23, Christian Corti via cctech > wrote: > > On Wed, 19 Jan 2022, Jonathan Chapman wrote: >> Just as a follow-up, I retensioned and read both tapes with clear bands this >> morning, and they're fine. Since they were parked, there shouldn't have been >> anything important there, and it looks like the removed oxide is staying on >> the band. > > What bands did you use/buy? I ask because the Baumgartens Plastibands aren't > available in the required size (as if they are not produced any more). > I bought the assorted sizes pack (SF-7000, I think). Each pack had maybe 10 of the green ones I use in QIC tape carts, so I bought multiple packs and put the rest of the bands into household use. alan
Re: WARNING: Clear QIC Tape Bands
On 1/18/22 8:22 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: You should be warned that Plastibands do deteriorate after a year or so--I have a package of them that cannot be stretched without breaking. Do you keep them in sealed bags? I keep mine in a zip-lock and the ones that I got a couple years ago stretch just fine. (I checked after I saw this.)
Re: Women of Computing
I was just now catching up with my LEGO Ideas e-mail (I went through my cctech mail first :) and see that the Women of Computing set was put together and proposed by the same woman who did the Women of NASA set. As far as my wife, she is active in two local LEGO user groups and was the one of those club's liaison with LEGO (until last month when the club lost its official club status with LEGO). Seeing LEGO this close is sometimes not the best idea if one wants to remain an enthusiastic supporter of the company. On 12/4/21 3:29 PM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk wrote: Lego puts poly pocket to shame. I agree with urwife and thank her for her work lobbying lego plz keep it up itsthe truly universal toy of everything On Sat., Dec. 4, 2021, 5:24 p.m. Alan Perry via cctalk, < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: LEGO is not doing this. This is part of the LEGO Ideas program, ideas for LEGO sets submitted by the LEGO user community. Someone proposes a set to the community and, if it gets 10,000 votes from the community, LEGO will consider making an official set out of it. Other examples of LEGO Ideas sets are the Saturn V rocket and ISS. This set was likely inspired by another Ideas set that went through the process and became an official set - https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/women-of-nasa-21312 LEGO itself has been a bit behind the curve on including female minifigs in their sets. My wife is active in the AFOL (Adult Fans Of LEGO) community. She has been lobbying LEGO for more female figures for much of her life, partly because LEGO was considered a "boys'" toy when we were growing up. (We were born at the beginning of Gen X FWIW.) alan On 12/4/21 12:09 PM, Brielle via cctalk wrote: See, if it had been presented like that, it would likely have not elicited the same response. It’s sad, but I understand the reason why they are doing it. Lego has always been a bit progressive - even going as far as in commercials that girls can play with legos too. Unfortunately, the ones that throw the term ‘woke’ around like that tend to have pretty strong feelings about a “woman’s place in society”. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 4, 2021, at 12:55 PM, newsgro...@micromuseum.co.uk wrote: On the contrary I consider it implicit that they played an equal role - and the need to make toys to indicate it is somewhat sad. -Original Message- From: cctalk On Behalf Of Brielle via cctalk Sent: 04 December 2021 19:53 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts < cctalk@classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: Women of Computing Using the term ‘woke’ these days is a great way to render any point you are trying to make moot. Great way to make people people not take you seriously. He may as well have just come out and said, “It triggers me and I don’t like having to acknowledge that women exist in the field of computer history.” — Brie On Dec 4, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Jason Howe via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: I'm curious what your definition of 'woke' is, because it seems grossly misapplied in this instance. --Jason On 12/4/21 10:20, Chris Long via cctalk wrote: Great.not. Why do we need woke Lego?
Re: Women of Computing
LEGO is not doing this. This is part of the LEGO Ideas program, ideas for LEGO sets submitted by the LEGO user community. Someone proposes a set to the community and, if it gets 10,000 votes from the community, LEGO will consider making an official set out of it. Other examples of LEGO Ideas sets are the Saturn V rocket and ISS. This set was likely inspired by another Ideas set that went through the process and became an official set - https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/women-of-nasa-21312 LEGO itself has been a bit behind the curve on including female minifigs in their sets. My wife is active in the AFOL (Adult Fans Of LEGO) community. She has been lobbying LEGO for more female figures for much of her life, partly because LEGO was considered a "boys'" toy when we were growing up. (We were born at the beginning of Gen X FWIW.) alan On 12/4/21 12:09 PM, Brielle via cctalk wrote: See, if it had been presented like that, it would likely have not elicited the same response. It’s sad, but I understand the reason why they are doing it. Lego has always been a bit progressive - even going as far as in commercials that girls can play with legos too. Unfortunately, the ones that throw the term ‘woke’ around like that tend to have pretty strong feelings about a “woman’s place in society”. Sent from my iPhone On Dec 4, 2021, at 12:55 PM, newsgro...@micromuseum.co.uk wrote: On the contrary I consider it implicit that they played an equal role - and the need to make toys to indicate it is somewhat sad. -Original Message- From: cctalk On Behalf Of Brielle via cctalk Sent: 04 December 2021 19:53 To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Women of Computing Using the term ‘woke’ these days is a great way to render any point you are trying to make moot. Great way to make people people not take you seriously. He may as well have just come out and said, “It triggers me and I don’t like having to acknowledge that women exist in the field of computer history.” — Brie On Dec 4, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Jason Howe via cctalk wrote: I'm curious what your definition of 'woke' is, because it seems grossly misapplied in this instance. --Jason On 12/4/21 10:20, Chris Long via cctalk wrote: Great.not. Why do we need woke Lego?
Re: Anyone want … Creo Brisque badges
The low hanging fruit is the best fruit? On 11/23/21 5:46 PM, Bill Degnan wrote: Forgive me but I can't resist. "Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stinking_badges <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stinking_badges> :-) Bill On Tue, Nov 23, 2021 at 8:33 PM Alan Perry via cctalk mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote: Hey, A few years ago I did a rescue of a couple Creo Brisque RS/6000s. They didn’t seem to have any Creo software on them, so I removed the Creo badges from them, reinstalled AIX on them, and passed them on. Anyone here want the badges? If so, send an address and I will drop them in the mail and send them your way. alan
Anyone want … Creo Brisque badges
Hey, A few years ago I did a rescue of a couple Creo Brisque RS/6000s. They didn’t seem to have any Creo software on them, so I removed the Creo badges from them, reinstalled AIX on them, and passed them on. Anyone here want the badges? If so, send an address and I will drop them in the mail and send them your way. alan
Re: Sun-2 and Sun-3 mice (eBay)
On 10/29/21 12:51 PM, Michael Thompson via cctech wrote: AFAIK, the posts are there so you don't plug your mouse into a phone jack or a modem port. There are cutouts on the back of the Sun3 keyboard to admit that connector. My Sun 2/120 server has an RJ mouse connector next to the RJ keyboard connector on the back of the chassis. My Sun 2/50 desktop client has a DA-15 keyboard connector on the back and has the mouse plugged into the keyboard. I have a black Mouse Systems mouse with a Sun sticker on the front. P/N 900783-002/01. Maybe for a Sun-1? The Sun Hardware Reference (http://www.sunhelp.org/faq/sunref5.html) says: Sun-2 - Optical mice, usually black, from Mouse Systems. They use a special optical mouse pad with broad stripes. Cable with RJ connector which connects either to the CPU directly or to an RJ-DB15 adapter (see type-2 keyboards above). Sun-3 - Optical mice, usually white, from Mouse Systems. They use the same mouse pad as Sun-2 mice. Cable with RJ connector which connects to the back of a type-3 keyboard. Sun-4 - Optical mice, usually white. They use a special optical mouse pad with narrow stripes. Cable with DIN-8 connector which connects to a type-4 or type-5 keyboard.
Re: Sun-2 and Sun-3 mice (eBay)
> On Oct 26, 2021, at 15:16, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > That's an easy and expected fix. What would be entirely uncool, and > was the reason I didn't drop $65 incl postage on it, is if the cable > had damage to it. That's the part that's unique to the Sun3, the > cable and connector. Aside from the posts on the side of the connector, what is unique about the cable and connector? What’s the deal with those posts? Aside from them, it looks like a 6P4C with only three leads connected. alan
Re: Sun-2 and Sun-3 mice (eBay)
On 10/26/21 11:14 AM, Zane Healy via cctech wrote: On Oct 26, 2021, at 7:45 AM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote: On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 2:43 AM r.stricklin via cctech wrote: https://www.ebay.com/sch/xi_jinping/m.html?item=334195034340=item4dcf9388e4%3Ag%3Ar%7EcAAOSwFVhhd12t=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562 Hadn't realized before that there were Sun-2 mice which weren't black (were white/beige). I know some folks are looking. I am in need of a Sun3 mouse but that one looks like it got pulled out from under the porch. -etha It doesn’t really look any worse than the “hockey puck” mouse that’s now on my VAXstation 4000/90 did, before I cleaned it up. Not sure where I got that mouse from, I’ve probably had it for 20+ years, especially given where I found it a few months ago, when I went looking for one. It was disgusting enough that I didn’t really want to touch it. The cleaner mouse didn’t work. I would be more concerned about paying $50 for an untested mouse. The mouse that came with my 3/260 was yellowed but otherwise looked fine. Unfortunately it doesn't work. Using UV light and hydrogen peroxide, I was able to reverse the yellowing and it now looks great. I still haven't restored the 3/260 enough to be able to use a mouse, but someday ...
Re: Apple I auction
Not really. Real auction houses do a lot of work staging and photographing as well as researching items to present them and get them in front of the right audience to maximize the sale price. I just returned home with a large item (required a 10-foot UHaul) that I won at auction through Prop Store (70s through present ‘genre’ movies and TV props, costumes, etc.). They do a 25% buyers premium. Between the catalog photography, the livestream bidding process, the research on the history on the item, and the assistance provided to get it on the truck, I think they earned their premium fee. alan > On Oct 23, 2021, at 23:03, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk > wrote: > > > Terrible in this day and age. > > > >> That buyer's premium seems crazy steep. > >> It is not. >> >> -- >> Will >> > > -- > : Ethan O'Toole > >
Re: Linux and the 'clssic' computing world
Doesn’t this have the relationship between the OS and the hardware platform backwards? > On Sep 27, 2021, at 07:07, Joshua Rice via cctalk > wrote: > > Obviously, there's more hardware platforms that support Linux (like the RPi > and other ARM boards)
Re: More cleaning out the Bob basement
Where is this? > On Sep 18, 2021, at 13:01, Chris Zach via cctalk > wrote: > > Went over to chip away at the Bob basement, and this time Alex came with me. > This is not a bad idea as if one of the piles shift and I get stuck it would > be nice to have someone there to call 911. Anyway we cleared out a lot of the > stuff in the tunnel to the Perqs including: > > A Franklin computer, in box. > A TRS80 Model 3 > An Apollo 3500 or so server box (heavy) > A Sun2 something > A sun 3/60 (I remember these!) > A Sparcserver 10,000 (heavy beyond belief) > Some sort of an IBM AS400 thing (also heavy) > An Apple II/e. > Few more hard drives > Weird scope like things > > The good news is the way to the MicroVax and the Perqs are clear. The bad > news is these are Perq2's which are bulky and there is still a pedestal > mounted Sun 3/110 in the way. > > Moral: Do not die with a lot of this stuff in your basement. We were far more > able to move this stuff 30 years ago when we were young than today. > > We may need more people. 2 hours of working that pile left us both trashed. > Ian, want to come over sometime? > > C >
Re: Archiving classic computer rubber part information
In addition to the Suns that I collect, I also collect ultra-portable typewriters. JJ Short are recommended for platen and rollers on the Typewriters mailing list and, based on their website, it looks like they could do molded rubber parts for printers. I have heard that they are pricey, but I wouldn't know. Despite sending in quote requests twice, I have yet to receive price quotes for platen and rollers for my typewriters. alan On 9/11/21 9:18 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: a frequently used place that refurbished typewriter platens has gone out of business. People have suggested https://www.jjshort.com/Recovered-Rubber-Rollers.php as an alternative.
Re: 3d modelling software
Cool. It wasn’t working that well when I tried. > On Aug 23, 2021, at 12:35, Paul Koning wrote: > > Mac OS, 64 bit Intel until recently, Arm64 right now. It's still the Intel > build, that works impressively well through Rosetta 2. The current version > is 0.19. I haven't run into significant issues with it for quite a while. > It's been pretty solid since 0.14 in my usage. That's a bit off the beaten > track, perhaps; I mostly do my modeling in a 5000 line Python script, and use > my own export to PovRAY rather than the FreeCAD Render workbench. But I did > use that a bit, in some experiments with the KiCAD importer. That's pretty > slick, converting a PCB layout to a 3d CAD model. > >paul > >> On Aug 23, 2021, at 2:19 PM, Alan Perry wrote: >> >> What OS were you running it on? When I first started trying to use it a >> couple years ago on a Mac, it didn’t work so well. I started trying to make >> it work better and then realized that I was spending most of my time trying >> to make the tool work and not so much time modeling the part that I was >> trying replicate and threw in the towel and started using Fusion 360. Using >> Fusion 360 has had some advantages when getting the part made (there is a >> common language for tweaking the model). >> >> alan >> >>>> On Aug 23, 2021, at 09:59, Paul Koning via cctalk >>>> wrote: >>> >>> I haven't used it for 3d printing work, but from other use I can recommend >>> FreeCAD3d. That is open source software, so free for everyone, not just >>> for "students". >>> >>> It has a GUI, and it can also be scripted using Python, which is a great >>> way to construct very complex models. I've used it to model a SF spaceship. >>> >>> paul >>> >>>> On Aug 23, 2021, at 12:29 PM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I think I may need to get a small part 3d printed (some plastic board >>>> mounting guide rails from a PDP 11/24 H7140 PSU). What software is best for >>>> a novice? Preferably free! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Rob >>>> >>> >
Re: 3d modelling software
What OS were you running it on? When I first started trying to use it a couple years ago on a Mac, it didn’t work so well. I started trying to make it work better and then realized that I was spending most of my time trying to make the tool work and not so much time modeling the part that I was trying replicate and threw in the towel and started using Fusion 360. Using Fusion 360 has had some advantages when getting the part made (there is a common language for tweaking the model). alan > On Aug 23, 2021, at 09:59, Paul Koning via cctalk > wrote: > > I haven't used it for 3d printing work, but from other use I can recommend > FreeCAD3d. That is open source software, so free for everyone, not just for > "students". > > It has a GUI, and it can also be scripted using Python, which is a great way > to construct very complex models. I've used it to model a SF spaceship. > >paul > >> On Aug 23, 2021, at 12:29 PM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk >> wrote: >> >> I think I may need to get a small part 3d printed (some plastic board >> mounting guide rails from a PDP 11/24 H7140 PSU). What software is best for >> a novice? Preferably free! >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> >> Rob >> >
Re: 3d modelling software
I use Fusion360. It is free for hobbyists and students. alan > On Aug 23, 2021, at 09:34, Rob Jarratt via cctalk > wrote: > > I think I may need to get a small part 3d printed (some plastic board > mounting guide rails from a PDP 11/24 H7140 PSU). What software is best for > a novice? Preferably free! > > > > Thanks > > > > Rob >
Re: Writings on AI from 17 years ago....
On 5/24/21 1:36 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On May 24, 2021, at 4:31 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: Well if it winds up in the dumpster then that's yet another lesson to not trust "Museums". It's actually funny than MC was taken from the storage shed and turned up at another "Museum". Oi. C I've worked with a museum and a rare computer -- the solution used in that case was to provide the machine to the museum under a long-term loan arrangement. That way, if the museum were to close or decide it doesn't want the machine any longer, it can't just scrap it because it isn't the museum's property to dispose of. Given some of what I've read from others, that's an arrangement that seems worth using more often. paul LCM wouldn't do that when I brought it up. alan
Re: Writings on AI from 17 years ago....
I am sure that Vulcan has gotten enough grief that they want to spin them off into foundations-like entities like what happened with EMP. There will lose a lot of good will otherwise, which will translate into what they care about, lost business. alan On 5/24/21 1:31 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: Well if it winds up in the dumpster then that's yet another lesson to not trust "Museums". It's actually funny than MC was taken from the storage shed and turned up at another "Museum". Oi. C On 5/24/2021 4:29 PM, geneb wrote: On Mon, 24 May 2021, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: Ah however in the door pocket there is a letter stating that if Paul ever got tired of the system or the museum closed that I would come and pick it up again. Done this a number of times. It kind of gets old, but I really thought Paul Allen wouldn't run out of money or interest. Go figure. His money or interest isn't the problem. It's the fact that he's dead and not able to protect his projects from his sister thats the problem. g.
Re: Writings on AI from 17 years ago....
On 5/24/21 9:24 AM, Jason Howe via cctalk wrote: On Sun, 2021-05-23 at 21:34 -0400, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: Anyone know if the LCM will be open Considering there is no staff as they were all laid off and have now all found other jobs, I'd guess that's a hard no. They'd basically need to spin up from 0 again -- considering Vulcan shut down LCM, Cinerama and the Flying Heritage Museum as soon as they could after Paul's death -- I put my money on asset dispersal, rather than reopening. I say with a pit in my stomach as a former member and regular visitor. EMP (or whatever the hell they're called now) survived because they had been spun off as a separate legal entity from Paul's Vulcan empire. It also includes Seattle Art Fair, which is a big deal in Seattle. It is more like Jody (Paul Allen's sister who runs Vulcan now) took advantage of the pandemic to shut Vulcan Entertainment down. However, it looks like they may be trying to re-form it as a charitable organization, Vulcan Arts & Entertainment, similar to what happened with EMP/MoPOP. They have a fancy new website (https://vulcanae.com) and are soliciting interest in memberships, donating, and volunteering. alan
Re: Keyboard storage, part 2
> On Jan 5, 2021, at 05:34, John Foust via cctalk wrote: > > At 08:31 PM 1/4/2021, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: >> Next, I ordered the Uline keyboard boxes. I had to get 25 of them and they >> are not free > > Well, actually... neither are the "free" USPS boxes. *Someone* paid for them, > and they're supposed to be used for shipping. Nice editing. What did I say the ones that I got will be used for? And I was recommending against them being used for keyboard storage.
Re: Keyboard storage, part 2
Update to my update. Sun Type 6 requires box modification. Sun Type 3 fits without modification. On 1/4/21 6:31 PM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: An update on keyboard storage, which I asked about here last month. I ordered some USPS Large Flat Rate Priority Mail "board game" boxes. This is a size not usually available at the post office and come 25 in a pack. They are a good size for mailing (and I am glad that I ordered them so I can use them for that), but I don't think they work for keyboard storage. They are so much larger than the keyboards that I am storing that lots of packing material is needed so they don't move around. Also, they are designed to be sealed and shipped, so there isn't a convenient way to open them once they have been closed. Next, I ordered the Uline keyboard boxes. I had to get 25 of them and they are not free ($2.70 per box plus tax and shipping). They can be open and closed. They are a much closer to the size of a keyboard (surprise, surprise!) so not much packing material needed, but they are slightly smaller than a Sun Type 5c (as well as Axil) keyboard and needed to modified for those two. No modification needed to store a Sun Type 4 or CompuAdd Sun-compatible keyboard in one. I haven't tried a Sun Type 6 yet. To anyone in the Seattle area that need keyboard boxes, I will probably have 10-15 of them once I get all of my keyboards packed. If you would like any, let me know. alan
Keyboard storage, part 2
An update on keyboard storage, which I asked about here last month. I ordered some USPS Large Flat Rate Priority Mail "board game" boxes. This is a size not usually available at the post office and come 25 in a pack. They are a good size for mailing (and I am glad that I ordered them so I can use them for that), but I don't think they work for keyboard storage. They are so much larger than the keyboards that I am storing that lots of packing material is needed so they don't move around. Also, they are designed to be sealed and shipped, so there isn't a convenient way to open them once they have been closed. Next, I ordered the Uline keyboard boxes. I had to get 25 of them and they are not free ($2.70 per box plus tax and shipping). They can be open and closed. They are a much closer to the size of a keyboard (surprise, surprise!) so not much packing material needed, but they are slightly smaller than a Sun Type 5c (as well as Axil) keyboard and needed to modified for those two. No modification needed to store a Sun Type 4 or CompuAdd Sun-compatible keyboard in one. I haven't tried a Sun Type 6 yet. To anyone in the Seattle area that need keyboard boxes, I will probably have 10-15 of them once I get all of my keyboards packed. If you would like any, let me know. alan
Re: Keyboard storage
> On Dec 22, 2020, at 00:51, Patrik Schindler via cctalk > wrote: > > Hello Alan, > >> Am 22.12.2020 um 07:17 schrieb Alan Perry via cctalk : >> >> I have a bunch of Sun keyboards that I need to store more efficiently and >> don't want to risk damaging by stacking on top of each other. They are Type >> 4s, 5s, and 6s (without the wrist rest), maybe 10 in total. Anyone here know >> of a box or boxes that would work well for this? > > I’m storing keyboards openly in a shelf, vertical, standing on the small > edge. I alternate them front-back so the slope of the keys array is > compensating itself. Aside from some dust, the packing density is really good. Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, since I live on a gravel road, dust is a huge problem here, so I need an enclosed solution. alan
Re: Keyboard storage
Thanks. I had seen that one before, but didn't know what to do with the extra 15 boxes. The USPS box has the advantages of being free and being a box I am more likely to use to ship something with (because of the flat rate price and not having to deal with weighing the box). alan On 12/21/20 10:59 PM, Guy Sotomayor wrote: Try ULine (uline.com). They have a keyboard shipping box (p/n S-6496). They're only $2.70/ea but the minimum order is 25. :-( TTFN - Guy On Mon, 2020-12-21 at 22:17 -0800, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: I have a bunch of Sun keyboards that I need to store more efficiently and don't want to risk damaging by stacking on top of each other. They are Type 4s, 5s, and 6s (without the wrist rest), maybe 10 in total. Anyone here know of a box or boxes that would work well for this? alan
Re: Keyboard storage
On 12/21/20 10:42 PM, Ali wrote: I have a bunch of Sun keyboards that I need to store more efficiently and don't want to risk damaging by stacking on top of each other. They are Type 4s, 5s, and 6s (without the wrist rest), maybe 10 in total. Anyone here know of a box or boxes that would work well for this? alan Alan, If you have the room you can get free (you have to order them but they cost nothing and are shipped free) "game board" boxes from the USPS. These are perfect for KBs. In fact this is what I use when shipping KBs. -Ali Is this the USPS large flat rate box size that isn't the rectangular one that post offices usually have. I just noticed the size mentioned on the Click-N-Ship site. alan
Keyboard storage
I have a bunch of Sun keyboards that I need to store more efficiently and don't want to risk damaging by stacking on top of each other. They are Type 4s, 5s, and 6s (without the wrist rest), maybe 10 in total. Anyone here know of a box or boxes that would work well for this? alan
Re: Apple 1 and memorabilia up for auction in Boston (NOT on Epay)
Watch the Orson Welles film "F is for Fake" ... On 12/11/20 6:56 PM, Jim Manley via cctalk wrote: On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 3:07 PM Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: Anyone that was seriously going to put up the money for this would know how to go about authenticating this item. It's been estimated by experts that a third to half of the "original artwork", previously valued at a total in the tens of billions in museums and collectors' places, are counterfeits. There have been a number of well-researched news stories, including a full segment on "60 Minutes" a couple of decades ago, where a counterfeiter was interviewed and showed how he executed his craft. One counterfeiter was so good that he sold paintings for tens of millions of dollars that were never even painted by the purported original artist, but were hinted at or described by art historians, based on rumors going back into the mists of time. Caveat emptor .. On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 3:07 PM Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: On Fri, Dec 11, 2020 at 8:23 AM W2HX via cctalk wrote: What am I missing? The picture shown on RR auctions shows the board with no chips? Watch the (unlisted) video linked to the auction listing from Corey Cohen. From what I have seen in the past he is pretty much the expert on Apple 1 restoration and authentication. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDTchQuP_Ec In any case, it doesn't really matter too much what any of us here think. Anyone that was seriously going to put up the money for this would know how to go about authenticating this item.
Re: Sun SPARCstation LX boot from CDROM?
I may be able to help. I have had mixed success reading QIC tapes. I have encountered two problems reading them. 1. Band failure. There is a band inside the cartridge that keeps the tape taut when drive advances and rewinds the tape. These bands like to fail. I have found replacements that seem to work. 2. Sticky tapes. I have had a lot of problems with the tape sticking and binding as it goes around posts inside the cartridge. I have yet to find a satisfactory way around this. If your tape has the second problem, I can't read it, but may be able to if it doesn't. alan On 10/4/20 9:58 PM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: Hi Chen, I just tried the tape drive and sadly it too has the capacitor leakage problem like the CDROM drive. So sorry but I cannot help reading your tapes. Regards Tom Hunter On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 2:05 PM Chenshyh Tsay via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: Dear Tom, Does your Sun workstation is functional and read QIC -150 cartridge? I have some old 3M 6150 cartridges that was created by Sun Sparc workstation in 2000. One those cartridges, I have some my personal files I like to get them. If you can you read those cartridges, I can pay some money for you? Chen Tsay
Re: PSA to SparcBook 2 Users
You flush electronics with Indian Pale Ale? Too many TLAs. This isn't a problem on the model of SparcBook you sold me, is it? On 9/22/20 10:53 AM, Ian Finder via cctalk wrote: There is a 1000uf 10v cap on the main logic board just above the Bt display controller. It is leaking... a lot. (4/4 samples so far) Go replace it, flush the area and scrub the with 99.9% IPA.
Re: Brittle plastic
Is the problem age per se or exposure (UV, oxidation, heat, etc.) over time that one can protect against? My Sun lunch box and pizza box systems are not exposed to UV or excessive heat most of the time. Some of them are kept bagged (because it is very dusty where I live). That should help, right? alan On 9/2/20 12:02 PM, Rico Pajarola via cctech wrote: I have a friend who is a Materials Science Technologist and specializes in injection molded plastics. So... basically the same thing that's in computer cases (even though he doesn't deal with computer cases). I grilled him at length on this topic, and he insisted that the brittleness with age (and UV light) is expected and irreversible. Basically, the plastic softeners are off-gassing, and there's no way to put them back in. I'm still hoping for a happier second opinion, though I'm not holding my breath. In my experience, brittleness varies wildly and goes from "no big deal" to "crumbles if you blow at it", even for otherwise identical machines. I recently acquired a Japanese Ultra 1 clone, and the back was smashed in shipping, and crumbled into a thousand pieces not even large enough to glue back together. Luckily the front only had a single crack that could be glued back together. On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 9:38 AM Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: Today I was working on a very nice 1995 vintage SPARCstation LX with CDROM and QIC-150 tape drive (3 lunchbox type units). I was trying to install a newer version of NetBSD on it than was already installed. The stack of 3 units was stored in a museum grade glass display cabinet. Sadly all 3 units have a small degree of yellowing but more importantly the plastic cases have become very brittle and bits just break off with minimal mechanical strain. Is there any process to reverse the brittleness which could be used to preserve the cases? Thanks Tom Hunter
Re: Sun SPARCstation LX boot from CDROM?
My collection is primarily sun4c and sun4m machines. I have been having problems with the CD drives that I have been acquiring (purchase or rescue) in the last year or so. 4-5 drives, none worked. It has all been drives in 411 cases or going into them, no failures with internal drives. Haven’t investigated why. > On Aug 28, 2020, at 14:22, Tom Hunter via cctech > wrote: > > About 20 years ago I rescued a fully working Sun SPARCstation LX with CDROM > and QIC-150 tape drive - all 3 in lunchbox format - plus monitor when we > moved office and management decided they no longer wanted/needed it. > > Shortly after I have installed an early version of NetBSD (1.3.3) from the > CDROM drive. I played with it for a few days and then stored the entire > system in a museum grade glass display cabinet. This is indoors with > minimal dust and benign temperatures between 18 degrees C to about 28 > degrees C (typical room temperatures here in Perth in Western Australia > unless you run the air conditioner). > > > > Now retired I took the stack of "lunch-boxes" and the CRT monitor out of > the display cabinet and powered it up. After 20 years no smoke came out but > the system didn't boot but reported trouble with the NVRAM setting. I still > could start NetBSD using a "boot disk" command. I googled the problem and > bought and installed a replacement TIMEKEEPER chip (M48T08-100). After > defaulting the settings and setting the MAC address and machine ID it was > happy and booted from disk without intervention. In NetBSD I then set the > date and time and all was good. > > > > Then I decided to upgrade to the latest version of the SPARC version of > NetBSD 9.0. I downloaded and burned the ISO image to CD. Dropped it into a > CD caddy and inserted it into the CDROM drive (SUN Model 411 - really a > Sony CDU-8012 3.1e). I did a "probe-scsi-all" and it found both the hard > drive and the CDROM (target 6 unit 0). > > > > Now comes the problem - if it try to run from it via "boot cdrom" it > doesn't even access the CDROM drive - the LED doesn't turn on unlike when > you do the "probe-scsi-all". > > > > The "cdrom" alias is really: "/iommu/sbus/espdma@4,840/esp@4 > ,880/sd@6,0:d". > > > > The "disk" alias is really: > "/iommu/sbus/espdma@4,840/esp@4,880/sd@3,0" > > > > > The "@3" versus the "@6" are the SCSI IDs of the disk drive versus the > CDROM. I don't know what the trailing bits mean. I tried cdrom aliases from > "sd@6,0:0" to "sd@6,0:f" and all report: > > > > Can't read disk label > > Can't open disk label package > > Can't open boot device > > > > The LED doesn't blink even once unless I remove and re-insert the caddy > with the CDROM media or if I do a "probe-scsi" or "probe-scsi-all". > > > > I tried original Sun Solaris 2.4 installation media with the exact same > result/symptoms. > > > > I also tried to access the CDROM from NetBSD using "cat /dev/cd0a" but the > drive's LED didn't blink and I got an obscure error message. > > > > The Boot ROM revision is reported as 2.9. The system was bought about 1985 > or 1986 and has seen very little use. > > > > I searched google without success. Maybe I used the wrong search terms or > the equipment is just getting too old and FAQs have disappeared. > > > > What would cause the CDROM boot problem? > > > > There is a chance that the actual Sony drive died. I partially disassembled > it hoping to find dust stuck on the LASER optics but it was nice and clean. > The positioning and ejection mechanisms work just fine. The whole system > was working before I put it into my relatively dust proof glass display > cabinet. > > > > Thanks and best regards > > Tom Hunter
Re: IBM and Calcomp gear rescue in Toronto area
My aunt worked at Calcomp (not sure for how long but defintely in the late 70s), I think in QA. She sent me a couple test plots on some plastic back then and I still have them. I think it would be funny to rescue the plotter and send it to her, but it would probably need to be rescued again soon afterward. alan On 8/20/20 11:15 AM, Anders Nelson via cctech wrote: Ugh, those tape drives are gorgeous. -- Anders Nelson +1 (517) 775-6129 www.erogear.com On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 1:10 PM John Foust via cctalk wrote: < https://www.reddit.com/r/vintagecomputing/comments/id17d2/i_need_vintagecomputings_help_in_the_early_1980s/ https://www.reddit.com/r/vintagecomputing/comments/id17d2/i_need_vintagecomputings_help_in_the_early_1980s/ IBM 29 card punch IBM 2501 card reader IBM 3420 magnetic tape unit IBM 3803 tape control unit Calcomp 663 plotter Calcomp 770 plotter tape storage Remington tabulator and some relatively more modern printers, two daisywheels and a laser printer.
Re: SUN VME - Have em in US....
I am interested, but I am not in Maryland. On 8/1/20 8:47 AM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: I have about 15 boards that look like they came from Sun 3/xxx series systems. Mostly SCSI controller boards things that might be clocks, and memory boards. About 3 Sun 3/xxx CPUs as well (later ones, 68020) Anyone need them? Let me know, pickup from MD preferred. CZ On 8/1/2020 8:55 AM, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote: A company has a few VME SUN 3/xxx CPU Cards and a SMD card for sale in case anyone is interested: https://ggsp.se/69-oevriga Approximately 100 USD each. They have also been listed on Swedish auction site Tradera for some time without selling so perhaps it is possible to negotiate? /Mattis
Re: Unisys MCP (was: Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?)
On 7/2/20 1:05 PM, Kevin Monceaux via cctalk wrote: Alan, On Wed, Jul 01, 2020 at 08:00:00PM -0700, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: Got it installed and running on a Windows 10 VM on my MacBook. Pretty interesting, but I haven't used MCP since '89 and seldom used the ODT (console) on A Series systems when I did, so lots of trying to recall how to do stuff. I got it installed and running on a Windows 7 VM on my 2009 Mac last night. I've never used MCP before, so there's been lots of reading trying to learn how to do stuff. I didn't have much time to work with it last night, so I haven't gotten very far yet. Has anyone attempted to run MCP Express under Wine on Linux? I don't know how long I'll be able to use the VM I currently have it running on. I don't have a Windows license key for it. I have never had Windows stop working despite not activating it and have gone at least 6 months without doing so. Despite now working for MS, I don't know the ins and outs of Windows activation. (I work on embedded Linux there.) I have been using those blogs to remind myself of how it all work. I worked on products where PCs (ET2000 PC compatibles and B2x BTOS systems) interacted with mainframes. Now the joys of block mode terminals are coming back to me. I did my day-to-day work with CANDE (Command AND Editor) and with MCP Express one get to that through MARC. However, when I run the MARC script, the Windows VM crashes. alan
Re: Unisys MCP (was: Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?)
On 7/1/20 12:33 PM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote: On 01/07/2020 19:26, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: I submitted the form last night and got the download link about 8am Pacific time this morning. The download was 2.66G. I haven't installed it yet. alan "The software license expires on July 31st of each calendar year and must be renewed by re-registering with Unisys and then downloading and installing a new package." Maybe I'll wait a few weeks before requesting a licence? Got it installed and running on a Windows 10 VM on my MacBook. Pretty interesting, but I haven't used MCP since '89 and seldom used the ODT (console) on A Series systems when I did, so lots of trying to recall how to do stuff. The disk image and machine config file are stored separately from ClearPath MCP Express, so I should be able to just point the new package to it when renewal time comes up. alan
Re: Unisys MCP (was: Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?)
On 7/1/20 11:09 AM, Stan Sieler via cctalk wrote: i> From: Alan Perry Why would one get OS/2200 when they can get https://www.unisys.com/offerings/clearpath-forward/clearpath-forward-products/clearpath-mcp-software/clearpath-mcp-express ? thanks! As an old MCP user/developer (although outside the lab), that's really interesting to me! Note: you have to register to get the software. That's apparently done by clicking on "Downloads". Then you're presented with a registration form. After submitting it, you're told you'll receive an email. Don't hold your breath. It's been 20 minutes, and no email from Unisys :( (And, no email --> no download) I submitted the form last night and got the download link about 8am Pacific time this morning. The download was 2.66G. I haven't installed it yet. alan
Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?
> On Jul 1, 2020, at 06:59, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: > > I doubt it is for hobbyists. I think it is to get people to look at it for > the upsell opportunity. I will take back some of what I just wrote. While I was typing this I received the download link email and it included this: Students, teachers, hobbyists and ClearPath enthusiasts can use it for non-production evaluation, personal or educational purposes to explore and practice developing and testing ClearPath MCP- based applications. Existing ClearPath MCP users can similarly use it to expand their knowledge of the ClearPath MCP environment.
Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?
I doubt it is for hobbyists. I think it is to get people to look at it for the upsell opportunity. And why are people writing ‘UniSys’? Speaking as someone who was there during the merger, it is ‘Unisys’. alan > On Jul 1, 2020, at 06:18, Michael Kerpan via cctalk > wrote: > > This thread has been truly enlightening. I had no idea that UniSys had > hobbyist versions of both their Univac and Burroughs stuff available. I doubt it is for hobbyists. I think it is for the upsell opportunity. I sent in my And why are people writing ‘UniSys’? It is ‘Unisys’. alan > I'll > have to give them both a try. Is there any software out there for them or > is the general idea that you're supposed to write your own? > > Mike
Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?
On 6/30/20 4:32 PM, Kevin Monceaux via cctalk wrote: Alan, On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 03:29:31PM -0700, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: Why would one get OS/2200 when they can get https://www.unisys.com/offerings/clearpath-forward/clearpath-forward-products/clearpath-mcp-software/clearpath-mcp-express ? OK, I may be a little biased since my first job out of college was working at Burroughs on MCP. I don't remember how I stumbled across the OS/2200 Express download option. I hadn't found the MCP Express download option. Now that you've pointed it out, my download request has been submitted. Hello, my name is Kevin, and I'm a mainframe emulator/mainframe OS addict. :-) Since I worked on the Burroughs stuff, I keep up with what Unisys has done with it over the years. When I saw that the 2200 stuff was available for free, I figured that the MCP stuff would be as well. Actually I wasn't so interested in MCP, but I liked the stack architecture and programming in NEWP (aside from the all caps syntax). I missed the good old says when the MCP source code told the illicit story of George and Sophia. alan
Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?
Why would one get OS/2200 when they can get https://www.unisys.com/offerings/clearpath-forward/clearpath-forward-products/clearpath-mcp-software/clearpath-mcp-express ? OK, I may be a little biased since my first job out of college was working at Burroughs on MCP. alan > On Jun 30, 2020, at 11:41, Kevin Monceaux via cctech > wrote: > > Classic Computer Fans, > > Technically this isn't a classic OS, but I suspect its lineage goes back far > enough to be of interest. Has anyone tried out UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 > Express? > > > https://www.UniSys.com/offerings/clearpath-forward/clearpath-forward-products/clearpath-os-2200-software/clearpath-os-2200-express > > I normally don't run Windows at home, but have set up a Windows 7 VM to try > it out. It includes a few PDFs, including basic startup and shutdown > procedures. I haven't found any intro to OS/2200 type docs yet. If anyone > knows of any, please let me know. It looks like it could be an interesting > system, if I can ever learn my way around. > > > > > > -- > > Kevin > http://www.RawFedDogs.net > http://www.Lassie.xyz > http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org > Bruceville, TX > > What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works! > Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.
Re: Farewell Etaoin Shrdlu
On 6/17/20 1:27 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On Jun 17, 2020, at 3:25 PM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: https://archive.org/details/FarewellEtaoinShrdlu 28min documentary on the last ever edition of the NY Times to be printed using hot metal -- before they switched to what are now a quite choice assortment of late-'70s minicomputers. I think I spotted a PDP, a Data General and some IBM device, but I am no expert in this era. As a veteran reader of Fredric Brown, especially "the Enchanted Linotype", I have been using ETAOIN SHRDLU to win at Hangman for many years... but I'd never seen one working before. It all still seems like magic to me. They should be fairly easy to find in printing musea. A friend of mine who was in Seattle collected this stuff. He had a couple Linotype/Intertype machines, a press, and lots and lots of magazines of type. It was set up in his garage and he would give demos of it in action. It was interesting how it worked. Unfortunately, he had to move out of the area for work and moving that stuff to another state was not feasible, so another local collector got it all. There was another documentary on them, Linotype: The Film (https://linotypefilm.com). alan
Re: Living Computer Museum
On 5/27/20 9:02 PM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote: The big problem with this situation is that it’s simply unnecessary: Living Computer Museum + Labs is not independent of Vulcan, and Vulcan can *easily* afford to keep the people who work there on payroll and working from home indefinitely. Did Vulcan have a lot of exposure to real estate? Real estate has been a huge asset bubble for a long time now. Covid is a perfect excuse for it popping, even though it's been long overdue for a while. If Vulcan is taking a hit or predicting they are going to take a hit then managers might axe all the creative stuff so they don't miss any bonuses. Vulcan is reported to have pulled the plug on their entertainment division (Vulcan Arts + Entertainment). Also part of this is the Flying Heritage and Combat Armor Museum and they put out an announcement almost identical to the LCM+L announcement. The Seattle Cinerama theater and Seattle Art Fair are caught up in this as well. I don't know if the MoPOP (formerly the Experience Music Project, the Science Fiction Museum, and Science Fiction & Fantasy Hall of Fame, which occupied the same building) is part of this. alan
Re: Living Computer Museum
That wasn’t an option for most folks. They told me that they didn’t accept items on loan. alan > On May 27, 2020, at 19:33, Chris Hanson via cctalk > wrote: > > This is why people should avoid donating equipment directly to institutions > and instead lend hardware to them. > > At least then you have a claim with which to try to get your stuff back if > they fold, close, or decide to go in a direction you don’t like. > > -- Chris >
Re: 13W3 to HDMI/DisplayPort
Thx. I haven’t seen many cheap VGA->HDMI adapters. The cheap ones went the other direction. I have been using widescreen displays with my Suns (using Solaris/CDE and OPENSTEP) for some time. My last Sun-badged display was a widescreen. Will look for Extron ones. > On May 24, 2020, at 22:05, Rico Pajarola wrote: > > > I've had good success using various Extron adapters. > > I'm currently using a RGB112xi to convert => VGA. > > So far the adapter works as advertised with anything I managed to connect it > to (various HP/DEC/Sun/SGI/RS6000, including mono and SoG) to a cheap Dell > monitor that definitely doesn't understand sync on green. The adapter fully > regenerates all signals including separate H/V sync. > > From there I would assume any cheap VGA => HDMI adapter should work (but I > never had the urge, because HDMI monitors also tend to be wide format which > doesn't work very well for classic computing) > > I also have other Extron converters, but the RGB112xi is best for 1990s > workstations. The only thing I wish it had was a way to choose the color when > the input signal is monochrome. > > > >> On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 9:53 AM Alan Perry via cctalk >> wrote: >> >> When I first started trying to use VGA LCD panels with my Suns (mostly >> lunchbox systems, all 4c and 4m desktops), I heard there could be a >> problem like that and stuck with a particular model Samsung that worked. >> Then I tried another one and it worked. And another. And another. I >> haven't encountered one (out of half a dozen) that didn't work. >> >> alanp >> >> On 5/24/20 9:29 AM, alan--- via cctalk wrote: >> > >> > I've had the opposite experience. I've been trying to find a 1U >> > pull-out keyboard/monitor/mouse combo for my E6500 rack. Most of the >> > VGA LCD panels complain about signal out of range on both cg3 and cg6. >> > The E6500 really doesn't need a video console, but it'd be nice if one >> > was tucked in there. Of course the weirdo Sun mounting rails in the >> > cabinet are yet another challenge. >> > >> > -A >> > >> > On 2020-05-24 11:16, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: >> > >> >> Every flat panel display with a SVGA connector that I have had has >> >> worked with my 13W3-to-SVGA adapters. I have seen adapters that do the >> >> SVGA to HDMI part. I am asking if someone else here has figured out >> >> which one(s) work in this application.
Re: 13W3 to HDMI/DisplayPort
When I first started trying to use VGA LCD panels with my Suns (mostly lunchbox systems, all 4c and 4m desktops), I heard there could be a problem like that and stuck with a particular model Samsung that worked. Then I tried another one and it worked. And another. And another. I haven't encountered one (out of half a dozen) that didn't work. alanp On 5/24/20 9:29 AM, alan--- via cctalk wrote: I've had the opposite experience. I've been trying to find a 1U pull-out keyboard/monitor/mouse combo for my E6500 rack. Most of the VGA LCD panels complain about signal out of range on both cg3 and cg6. The E6500 really doesn't need a video console, but it'd be nice if one was tucked in there. Of course the weirdo Sun mounting rails in the cabinet are yet another challenge. -A On 2020-05-24 11:16, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: Every flat panel display with a SVGA connector that I have had has worked with my 13W3-to-SVGA adapters. I have seen adapters that do the SVGA to HDMI part. I am asking if someone else here has figured out which one(s) work in this application.
Re: 13W3 to HDMI/DisplayPort
> On May 24, 2020, at 06:31, emanuel stiebler via cctalk > wrote: > > On 2020-05-23 21:35, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: >> Anyone here know of a SVGA-to-HDMI (or DisplayPort) adapter that a >> 13W3-to-SVGA adapter >> so I can connect my Sun frame buffers to a HDMI display? I am hoping someone >> here has already figured this one out. > > SVGA should be possible, but Sun Frame Buffer? Which ones are you > talking about? > > Resolution? Framerate? Which frame buffers? The typical cg3 cg6 with 13W3. Resolution? Framerate? Don’t care as long as it displays. Every flat panel display with a SVGA connector that I have had has worked with my 13W3-to-SVGA adapters. I have seen adapters that do the SVGA to HDMI part. I am asking if someone else here has figured out which one(s) work in this application.
13W3 to HDMI/DisplayPort
Anyone here know of a SVGA-to-HDMI (or DisplayPort) adapter that a 13W3-to-SVGA adapter so I can connect my Sun frame buffers to a HDMI display? I am hoping someone here has already figured this one out. alan
Re: "scsi bus continuously busy"
On 5/2/20 10:44 AM, Warner Losh wrote:
On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 11:22 AM Alan Perry via cctalk
mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:
Courtesy of a Raspberry Pi serving as the ND server, I am now able to
load SunOS 3.5 over the network onto my 3/260 and it is now coming up
into the OS. I am now seeing this error:
>sc0 at vme24d16 20 vec 0x40
>sd0 at sc0 slave 0
>si0: sc_cmd: scsi bus continuously busy
>sc0: resetting scsi bus
>sd1 at sc0 slave 1
>si0: sc_cmd: scsi bus continuously busy
>sc0: resetting scsi bus
The SCSI controller is the "Sun 2" SCSI card. I saw some corrosion-ish
crap on the board and cleaned it off. It is SCSI, so, of course, I
played with termination. No change in behavior.
Is this likely to be a controller board problem or a device problem?
Are these boards picky about SCSI devices?
_Any other suggestions?_
This comes from code:
/* wait for scsi bus to become free */
for (j = 0; j < SI_WAIT_COUNT/4; j++) {
if ((SBC_RD.cbsr & SBC_CBSR_BSY) == 0)
goto SI_ARB_SEL_FREE;
...
}
printf("si%d: si_arb_sel: scsi bus continuously busy\n",
SINUM(c));
So the busy bit is stuck on and there's no reselect that happens. The
chip in question is NCR 5380 SBC. This is a phase issue on the bus.
After 10s the busy bit in this controller didn't clear. I didn't look it
up, but I'll wager that's the BSY bit on the bus not clearing. This
suggests an electrical issue (maybe termination, maybe not, so not
surprised it didn't help since this is a signal line, not a data line).
Does this happen with no devices on the bus?
sc0 at vme24d16 20 vec 0x40
sd0 at sc0 slave 0
sd1 at sc0 slave 1
sd2 at sc0 slave 8
st0 at sc0 slave 32
st1 at sc0 slave 40
zs0 at obio 2 pri 3
zs1 at obio 0 pri 3
ie0 at obio c pri 3
bwtwo0 at obmem ff00 pri 4
bwtwo0: resolution 1152 x 900
sd0: scsi bus failure
sc0: sd0, unit offline
sd0: scsi bus failure
sc0: sd0, unit offline
root on nd0
Warner
"scsi bus continuously busy"
Courtesy of a Raspberry Pi serving as the ND server, I am now able to load SunOS 3.5 over the network onto my 3/260 and it is now coming up into the OS. I am now seeing this error: >sc0 at vme24d16 20 vec 0x40 >sd0 at sc0 slave 0 >si0: sc_cmd: scsi bus continuously busy >sc0: resetting scsi bus >sd1 at sc0 slave 1 >si0: sc_cmd: scsi bus continuously busy >sc0: resetting scsi bus The SCSI controller is the "Sun 2" SCSI card. I saw some corrosion-ish crap on the board and cleaned it off. It is SCSI, so, of course, I played with termination. No change in behavior. Is this likely to be a controller board problem or a device problem? Are these boards picky about SCSI devices? Any other suggestions? alan
Re: tape baking
On 5/1/20 4:19 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 5/1/20 1:59 PM, Curious Marc via cctalk wrote: Agreed. They sure are pressed in, then riveted in for good measure. You’d have to drill them out first. Not an easy modification. Marc PTFE 2mm ID 3mm OD tubing is a standard size. That might fit. --Chuck All of the QIC-24 cartridges sitting next to me right now have posts that are machined with 1-2mm deep tape guides. I don't see how to install tubing over the posts and have the guides still do their job. As I noted, I have tried isopropyl alcohol to clean them off but they still stick. Is this something that baking will help with? Maybe using acetone instead of alcohol to wipe the posts down as well? alan
Re: tape baking
On 4/28/20 11:47 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: I'm a bit surprised that this is even a "thing" in the audio business. Restorers have been baking audio tapes for a long time. That is acknowledged in the slides, isn't it? "Thermal Baking: A popular, poorly understood remedy" "Most common remediation (successfully used for decades)" "No consistent baking procedures - to this day audio tape users argue about about why it works." Isopropanol does not clean the sticky deposits from equipment--you must use a stronger solvent. Acetone, Perc or MEK generally does the trick. I am trying to read a bunch of late 80s QIC-24 tapes (Sun/Computervision install media). In addition to the normal QIC band problem, I am seeing problems with the tape sticking on the metal posts that the tape goes around to change direction towards the reels. Should I try wiping the posts with acetone or wiping the tape with cyclomethicone? Should I be baking the tapes? If so, what is a safe way to bake QIC cartridges? alan
Re: FedEX unsurance issues
On 4/28/20 8:32 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: Anyway, you could sure write a letter to your state attorney general's office. I have gotten surprising results when making complaints. A couple years ago, Wagreens has deceptive yellow 2 for 1 labels in their OTC drug and vitamin shelves. Well, they were NOT 2 for the price of one -- they were buy two, get half off on the 2nd bottle, only. A few months after filing a complaint with the state EG's office, there was an aritcle about it in the newspaper, and they changed the policy. I assume other people also complained. I have mixed experiences with filing a complaint to the state AG's office. In one case, I got very quick resolution. In the other case, they just blew it off. But I recommend giving it a shot. alan
Re: Scanning incomplete and updated documents
On 4/16/20 9:32 PM, J. David Bryan via cctech wrote:
On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 8:52, Alan Perry via cctech wrote:
Should I create two different pdfs with different appendix sections or
create a single pdf with both sets?
Where both old and new pages were present, and where they could be
differentiated clearly, I made a separate PDF for each manual printing.
That is, I'd have two PDFs with the same part number with different print
dates -- one containing the old (original) pages, and the other containing
the new (replacement) pages. See, for example:
/pdf/hp/64000/hardware/64161-90901_Jan-1984.pdf
/pdf/hp/64000/hardware/64161-90901_May-1984.pdf
and the update ("Manual Change Sheet"):
/pdf/hp/64000/hardware/64161-90901-MCS_May-1984.pdf
...from which the later manual was created at Bitsavers.
Looking at the document, my case looks more interesting.
As I noted, the two sets of appendices are mostly completely different.
There are 9 appendices that look like they are from the primary document
and 5 that look like they are from inserted pages. Both sets start
numbering from "A". There is one title shared between the two sets.
But the really interesting thing is that the copyright date on the
"primary" document is AFTER the date in the footers of the "inserted" pages.
FYI - the document is Computervision CADDStation System Software
Installation.
So, any recommendations on what I should do?
Also, any recommendations on a software tool to slice and dice PDFs that
is inexpensive?
alan
Scanning incomplete and updated documents
I recently received a bunch of hardware/software documents to scan. I am only roughly familiar with the systems covered by the docs. I have encountered a couple situations that I would like guidance on. 1. One document is a software installation manual in a loose leaf binder with other documents. It has a title page, tables of contents, etc., several chapters, and then it gets interesting. It has several appendix sections (starting at A), an index, then more appendix sections (starting at A as well), and then another index. The document title and its font match of the second set of appendix sections and second index matches the table of contents and chapters. The first set of appendix sections and index are a little different. The topics covered in the sets of appendix sections are not the same. Should I create two different pdfs with different appendix sections or create a single pdf with both sets? 2. One document is missing the title page and table of contents. Should the pdf just be what I have or should I create those pages for the pdf? Thanks, alan
Sun 3 and memory
Hi everyone, Update on the barn-find Sun 3/260 that I have been restoring and was supposed to exhibit at VCF PNW until the show was cancelled for some odd reason. The system had been failing to get through self-test because, in the memory tests, bit 13 was always set, whether intended or not. I borrowed a couple Sun 501-1102 boards (8M ECC memory for VME) and one of them passes the self-tests and, if I had a bootable device, the system is now ready to try that. But my question here is about Sun 3 memory. Sun part 501-1102 is described as Sun 3/2xx, 3/4xx, and 4/2xx memory (The Sun System Handbook does not list it as 3/4xx memory). The memory board that worked is tagged 501-1102 and was described as memory to go along with a Sun 3/160 CPU board. I was loaned both boards in case the problem was the backplane. But the System Handbook does not list that memory as an option for that CPU. Does anyone here know whether a 501-1102 memory board be used with a 3/160 CPU? Does anyone here know whether Sun 3/260 schematics are available anywhere like the 3/160 and 3/60 ones are? I would like to give repairing the memory board that came with the 260 a shot, since that is a better story when I exhibit it and the memory board that I have that works now is a loaner. Finally, will a SD2SCSI (configured as 2 Sun0424 drives), Archive 150M QIC drive, or CD-ROM drive work on the 3/260 if I connect them up to the SCSI cable for the QIC-24 drive that the system came with? alan
Re: State of New Jersey needs COBOL programmers
On 4/5/20 4:39 PM, Jay Jaeger via cctalk wrote: On 4/5/2020 12:47 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 4/4/20 10:15 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: Stories like this abound. Wasn't California DMV running RCA Spectrolas well into the 80s? --Chuck I did write some COBOL on the IBM 1410 which I worked on while I was a student (COBOL for which was surprisingly capable), DOS/VS, OS/360, MVS, and so on. I found it to be: I got my Computer Science degree in '86 and most of the programming for my classwork was in C and ran on BSD UNIX on a 11/750. I also worked in the school's computer center on a DECsystem-20. My first job out of school was doing system software at Burroughs. The stuff that I was working on initially ran on all three lines of Burroughs mainframes sold at the time and, at Burroughs then, that meant it was written in COBOL. So, my first week at Burroughs was spent learning COBOL. At school, everyone said that COBOL was evil. But after I had worked with it for a while, though I thought it was verbose, I didn't find it that bad to work with. alan
Re: ISO: Cipher F880 tape drive, Fujitsu Eagle disk drive
The Eagle is M2351 with 270mm platters. On 4/3/20 4:13 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: Is the Eagle the little 8 inch one or the 2284? I have one of the smaller ones in my shed C On 4/3/2020 6:42 PM, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote: I'm working on restoring an LMI Lambda, which is missing both its tape drive and its disk drive. If anyone has a Cipher F880 9-track drive or a Fujitsu Eagle SMD drive, drop me a line. Be nice if they were in working condition, but so long as they're repairable I can work with 'em. 2351 Thanks! Josh
Re: RDI BriteLite
According to the label, the BriteLite IPX power input is 18V 3.1A. alan On 3/6/20 1:07 AM, Plamen Mihaylov wrote: Alan, thank you for the photos. I have no idea it was a proprietary framebuffer. Do you remember what voltage the RDI uses ? Best regards, Plamen On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 11:04 PM Alan Perry via cctech mailto:cct...@classiccmp.org>> wrote: On 3/5/20 7:44 AM, Alan Perry via cctech wrote: > > >> On Mar 5, 2020, at 05:20, Plamen Mihaylov via cctech mailto:cct...@classiccmp.org>> wrote: >> >> Does anyone have such machine ? I miss the PSU adapter as well as the Sbus >> framebuffer which connects the LCD panel to the mainboard. Any info is >> appreciated. > > > I had one, but sold it to someone on this list last year. > > I used a generic power supply, one with multiple cord tips and selectable output. However, when I exhibited the BriteLite and had it running all day, the power supply died after a day and a half. > > Good luck on finding a frame buffer for it. I don’t remember the details about it, but I took lots of photos of it. Here is a Flickr album of the insides of what was my BriteLite IPX, including the LCD frame buffer - https://flic.kr/s/aHsmLNnBuU alan > > alan > > >> >> Best regards, >> Plamen >
Re: RDI BriteLite
On 3/5/20 7:44 AM, Alan Perry via cctech wrote: On Mar 5, 2020, at 05:20, Plamen Mihaylov via cctech wrote: Does anyone have such machine ? I miss the PSU adapter as well as the Sbus framebuffer which connects the LCD panel to the mainboard. Any info is appreciated. I had one, but sold it to someone on this list last year. I used a generic power supply, one with multiple cord tips and selectable output. However, when I exhibited the BriteLite and had it running all day, the power supply died after a day and a half. Good luck on finding a frame buffer for it. I don’t remember the details about it, but I took lots of photos of it. Here is a Flickr album of the insides of what was my BriteLite IPX, including the LCD frame buffer - https://flic.kr/s/aHsmLNnBuU alan alan Best regards, Plamen
Re: VCF PNW 2020: Cancelled
Given that the venue is closed and it is unknown whether it will reopen before the show date, there is a good reason to reschedule at a minimum. alan > On Mar 5, 2020, at 21:40, Richard Pope via cctalk > wrote: > > Hello all, >The Covid-19 threat is being over sold. Children don't seem to be at risk. > It is the elderly that seem to get really sick. If you are sick just stay > home. You can also wear a mask and that will protect others. The flu is more > of a threat than Covid-19. If you are not sick wearing a mask is a waste of > money and resources for you can be infected through the eyes. No reason to > cancel. Just request that sick people please stay home. > GOD Bless and Thanks, > rich! > >> On 3/5/2020 11:30 PM, John Herron via cctalk wrote: >> Tough choice and I saw the museum closing announcement today also. Is there >> a way to still buy any swag and show support for all of you folks' hard >> work? >> >> Probably too soon to say but any chance of a reschedule vs cancel? >> >> On Thu, Mar 5, 2020, 7:34 PM Michael Brutman via cctalk < >> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: >> >>> The short story: COVID-19 >>> >>> More details at http://vcfed.org/vcf-pnw. >>> >>> >>> Mike >>> >
Re: RDI BriteLite
> On Mar 5, 2020, at 05:20, Plamen Mihaylov via cctech > wrote: > > Does anyone have such machine ? I miss the PSU adapter as well as the Sbus > framebuffer which connects the LCD panel to the mainboard. Any info is > appreciated. I had one, but sold it to someone on this list last year. I used a generic power supply, one with multiple cord tips and selectable output. However, when I exhibited the BriteLite and had it running all day, the power supply died after a day and a half. Good luck on finding a frame buffer for it. I don’t remember the details about it, but I took lots of photos of it. alan > > Best regards, > Plamen
Buying external SMD cables for Sun gear
As previously discussed here, I have a Sun 3/260 that connects to a Sun external storage subsystem containing two 8” SMD drives. The external cabling is a 0.7m D-sub 25-pin (male both ends) data cable for each drive and a paired set of 0.7m D-sub 25- and 37-pin (male both ends) command cables. These cables are straight through connections between internal ribbon cables from the drives (CDC 9720-368 and Fujitsu M2372) to the controller board (Xylogics 451 on a VME adapter). For reasons described below, I have been unable to buy the original Sun cables. Should off-the-shelf D-sub 25- and 37-pin cables work? I guess electrical shielding/noise could be a concern? As to why I am looking for alternatives, MemoryX has been my source for this kind of stuff, but they have lost my trust. I ordered a full set of cables from them on 2 Jan and they have gone silent responding to my queries on that order. Then this month they were selling a couple sets of the control cables on eBay. I bought the second set. They marked it shipped, left positive comments about the transaction on eBay, but the cable set didn’t arrive as scheduled last Friday and yesterday they cancelled the eBay auction and refunded what I paid, all without any explanation. They still list the cables on their website, each $100 more than what they were when I ordered them on 2 Jan. alan
CDC 9720 status/control panel
Hi, Does anyone here have a CDC 9270 (SMD HDD) status/control panel that I could borrow to check whether the drive that I have thinks that it is OK? alan
Fujitsu M2372 SMD disk manual and status
Two things: 1. Does anyone here have documentation for Fujitsu's M2372 SMD disk? M2382 is on bitsavers, but there are some differences between it and the M2372. 2. I removed the drive from the Sun Storage Pedestal chassis, so I could see what status LEDs are turning on when I power it up. STS0 is solid and STS3 is flashing. Is this some transitory state as the drive is coming up or is this a fault indication? It has stayed in that state for at least 10 min, so I presume it is a fault. If I am reading the M2382 manual correctly and is is applicable to the M2372, the fault "indicates the condition to Power Ready is not correct or the drive detect the unexpected MPU interruption". alan
Re: Sun external SMD cables
On 2/15/20 12:35 AM, jim stephens via cctech wrote: On 2/14/2020 11:11 PM, Alan Perry via cctech wrote: On 2/14/20 1:54 PM, jim stephens via cctech wrote: On 2/14/2020 6:09 AM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: On Feb 14, 2020, at 04:15, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 at 19:06, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: I supplied part numbers. How can I be more specific? Oddly, some of us do not have a mental look-up table of Sun part numbers. In fact I think I can safely say that I could not identify a single cable of any form for any machine ever made by its part number. If you can, good for you. I read the label attached to the cable. I could tell you what connectors are at each end of the cable, but I couldn’t tell you how they are wired together and, having no docs on the cable or an example to check, am dependent on the part number to tell me that. alan The SCSI spec and cabling have a specific way that the conductors have to be rolled to make a round cable. Each cable type has a recommended way that signal and grounds should be paired and in what proximity in the cable. For SMD I never saw a formal spec with as much detail as the SCSI spec, and I don't know if they standardized the cabling. Mainly to speculate about whether you can use a generic 25-25 or 37-37 straight thru. I opened up the drive pedestal chassis. At the panel, a 60-pin ribbon cable is split between the two D-sub connectors, 36 (with the #1 pin) on the 37-pin D-sub and 24 on the 25-pin D-sub. The ribbon cable disappears into the chassis, but there are two 60-pin ribbon cables come out, one connected to each drive. As far as the data connectors, I can only access the connector on one drive. On the drive is a 26-pin IDC connector. The ribbon cable attached to the connector is 25-pin and each drive has it own 25-pin D-sub on the back panel. I suspect the 25-25 would be sensitive to the type of conductor pairing and fabrication would work. The 37-37 bus connector probably would work with looser electrical specs to substitute in different cabling. Also just to make things more entertaining on the Oracle site for sun hardware they are using the term "Storage Module Drive" to refer to 6g/s SAS drives installed in individual blades for a blade server system. So the term appears frequently in their online docs, and including old documents and current documents. When I was searching the Interwebs by part number, I found something that categorized the cables as SAS cables, even though the official name associated with the part number says SMD. They used the exact same name as the SMD drives you have. But as you say they are SAS, which are the somewhat older cousins of SATA drives, and nothing to do with your dries. Here's one example of that term on a page https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19452-01/html/821-0911/gkfcf.html If I'm not far off base, I ran across two vendors who may have made the controller if they aren't sun, Interphase, and Xylogics. Also an article referred to the Sun boards as Eurocard from Xylogics. Xylogics 753. The SMD controller is a Xylogics 451. It is a Multibus card, so there is a Multibus-VME on the VME board between it and the backplane. The control connector is a 60-pin IDC to ribbon cable split between two D-sub connectors as above. The data connectors is as above, 26-pin IDCs to 25-pin ribbon to 25-pin D-sub. The drives usually had two 60 pin IDC's one in front of the other. You'd usually put a terminator for the daisy chain of the 60 pin bus cable in the outer cable, and there was enough space between them to put the ribbon cable. They used braided cables most times I ever saw them. There is something that is likely a terminator in another 60-pin IDC on the drive that has exposed connectors. The radial cable had a ground plane type ribbon cable with flat parallel conductors composting the rest of the 26 pin cable. Had to have one for each drive from the controller to each drive. I was going to suggest replacing the sun mess of cables with just one 60 pin cable and a 26 pin cable, and run with one drive, but realize you probably only have the sun method of terminating the bus (60 pin) cable. it needs termination at the controller, and on the last drive. Since your system was set up with the sun connection and cabling, you don't have a standalone SMD terminator, which is a small 60 pin thingie that looks a lot lie the Single Ended SCSI terminator for the 50 pin SCSI IDC cabling arrangement. This was a "running when parked" system, so the plan was to just re-cable it as it was. Also, it is being exhibited as a "barn-find" system, so I am trying to use as much of what came out of the barn as possible (even if the dead rodent inside the monitor and subsequent corrosion of its boards means I won't be using it, I may display it). When I can't do that, I am trying to use
Re: Sun external SMD cables
On 2/14/20 1:54 PM, jim stephens via cctech wrote: On 2/14/2020 6:09 AM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: On Feb 14, 2020, at 04:15, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 at 19:06, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: I supplied part numbers. How can I be more specific? Oddly, some of us do not have a mental look-up table of Sun part numbers. In fact I think I can safely say that I could not identify a single cable of any form for any machine ever made by its part number. If you can, good for you. I read the label attached to the cable. I could tell you what connectors are at each end of the cable, but I couldn’t tell you how they are wired together and, having no docs on the cable or an example to check, am dependent on the part number to tell me that. alan The SCSI spec and cabling have a specific way that the conductors have to be rolled to make a round cable. Each cable type has a recommended way that signal and grounds should be paired and in what proximity in the cable. For SMD I never saw a formal spec with as much detail as the SCSI spec, and I don't know if they standardized the cabling. Mainly to speculate about whether you can use a generic 25-25 or 37-37 straight thru. I opened up the drive pedestal chassis. At the panel, a 60-pin ribbon cable is split between the two D-sub connectors, 36 (with the #1 pin) on the 37-pin D-sub and 24 on the 25-pin D-sub. The ribbon cable disappears into the chassis, but there are two 60-pin ribbon cables come out, one connected to each drive. As far as the data connectors, I can only access the connector on one drive. On the drive is a 26-pin IDC connector. The ribbon cable attached to the connector is 25-pin and each drive has it own 25-pin D-sub on the back panel. I suspect the 25-25 would be sensitive to the type of conductor pairing and fabrication would work. The 37-37 bus connector probably would work with looser electrical specs to substitute in different cabling. Also just to make things more entertaining on the Oracle site for sun hardware they are using the term "Storage Module Drive" to refer to 6g/s SAS drives installed in individual blades for a blade server system. So the term appears frequently in their online docs, and including old documents and current documents. When I was searching the Interwebs by part number, I found something that categorized the cables as SAS cables, even though the official name associated with the part number says SMD. Here's one example of that term on a page https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19452-01/html/821-0911/gkfcf.html If I'm not far off base, I ran across two vendors who may have made the controller if they aren't sun, Interphase, and Xylogics. Also an article referred to the Sun boards as Eurocard from Xylogics. Xylogics 753. The SMD controller is a Xylogics 451. It is a Multibus card, so there is a Multibus-VME on the VME board between it and the backplane. The control connector is a 60-pin IDC to ribbon cable split between two D-sub connectors as above. The data connectors is as above, 26-pin IDCs to 25-pin ribbon to 25-pin D-sub. For grins, I tried powering up the drives. They came up and didn't make horrible noises. alan Thanks Jim But if someone, say, told me "I need some SCSI cables: a MD50 to MD68 cable, 2 × MD68 to MD68, an MD50 terminator and ideally a DB25 to MD50," then I would be able to say "yes, I have some of those". However, since Jim has been a bit more forthcoming, it sounds like I can't help you. -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: Sun external SMD cables
> On Feb 14, 2020, at 14:19, Patrick Finnegan via cctalk > wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 4:36 PM jim stephens via cctalk > wrote: >> SMD external cables probably weren't that common. The systems I saw >> which were of such as 4/280 etc, rack mounted had the cabling internal >> to the bays and were of the ribbon variety. They used VME bus cards in >> a large size carrier for the controllers in the system frame. The >> system frame had cards that were about 18" high with an extra bus >> connector. But if you aligned the VME cars to fit two of them, there >> was apparently a vme bus. >> >> Those systems that i saw had either 68k processors, or early Sparc >> processors. The sun boards used all three bus connectors and the other >> vendor boards as I sad were usually mounted in a sun dimensioned carrier >> frame. >> >> And reason for all this explanation was that they used a third part >> vendor's SMD interface. >> >> As to the connections to go outside the rack, all the systems I saw had >> 2 or so smd drives and were racked in a 6' bay with room for a tape >> drive at the top, system in the center, and drives @ the bottom, and so >> no need for external. > > For what it's worth, my Sun 3/140 has a Fujitsu 9-track at the top of > the rack, and two Eagles at the bottom of the rack (VME chassis in the > middle), wired to the SMD disk controller with the "external" D-sub > cables, and it's all contained within one rack. I have a 3/260 with the “storage pedestal”, a pair of 8” SMD drives in a deskside chassis the same size as the system chassis. It was originally purchased and used by Mentor Graphics. A now-former employee bought it and used it for a while, then put it in his open barn, where it sat for a dozen years. He gave it to me last year and I am trying to get it running for VCF-PNW in a bit over a month. The big problem is a particular bit is always staying on during the memory path data test, so it won’t even come up to the boot prom. If I can’t get past that, the lack of SMD cables are not a problem :) alan PS I forgot to thank Liam for offering assistance, so thanks, Liam.
Re: Sun external SMD cables
> On Feb 14, 2020, at 04:15, Liam Proven via cctalk > wrote: > > On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 at 19:06, Alan Perry via cctalk > wrote: >> >> I supplied part numbers. How can I be more specific? > > Oddly, some of us do not have a mental look-up table of Sun part > numbers. In fact I think I can safely say that I could not identify a > single cable of any form for any machine ever made by its part number. > If you can, good for you. I read the label attached to the cable. I could tell you what connectors are at each end of the cable, but I couldn’t tell you how they are wired together and, having no docs on the cable or an example to check, am dependent on the part number to tell me that. alan > > But if someone, say, told me "I need some SCSI cables: a MD50 to MD68 > cable, 2 × MD68 to MD68, an MD50 terminator and ideally a DB25 to > MD50," then I would be able to say "yes, I have some of those". > > However, since Jim has been a bit more forthcoming, it sounds like I > can't help you. > > -- > Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com > Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven > UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: Sun external SMD cables
> On Feb 13, 2020, at 15:42, jim stephens via cctalk > wrote: > > > > On 2/13/2020 10:05 AM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: > > >>> I have a box of old Sun SCSI cables I >>> set aside more or less for this reason, as I gave away or sold all my >>> Sun kit. > >> Data a single is 25-pin cable, but I have two drives. so ideally need two. >> Command is a pair of cables, one 25-pin and the other 37-pin. I don't know >> if the pins are straight through or whether they do any swapping from one >> end to the other. >> >> alan >> > Liam, he's looking for SMD, which need a Bus and Radial. One Bus can daisy > chain from drive to drive, and us usually 60 pin. The radial RF cables are > usually 26 pin ribbon. A separate cable from the controller to each drive is > required to hook up the system. https://www.memoryxsun.com/5301079.html https://www.memoryxsun.com/5301080.html When I ordered them just after the new year, it was $124 shipped for two data cables and a command cable pair. The data cables have increased in price by $100 each since then. Maybe that is why my email isn’t getting answered? They have “one left” command cable pair on eBay for a lower price. I am tempted to buy it except I already paid them for another one. alan > > You're thinking about the 50 pin D-sub that went to the older deskside bricks > for workstations. > > thanks > Jim
Re: Sun external SMD cables
On 2/13/20 9:56 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 at 18:46, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: Anyone here have a set of Sun external SMD cables (530-1079 and 530-1080) that they can loan or want to sell? I ordered from a set from MemoryX at the beginning of Jan. They haven’t arrived and MemoryX isn’t answering my e-mail asking what’s up. Can you be a bit more specific? I supplied part numbers. How can I be more specific? I have a box of old Sun SCSI cables I set aside more or less for this reason, as I gave away or sold all my Sun kit. I am afraid I don't know the exact part numbers offhand, but if you can describe what you're looking for, I'll know whether it's worth going digging. They are d-sub male connectors on both ends. Data a single is 25-pin cable, but I have two drives. so ideally need two. Command is a pair of cables, one 25-pin and the other 37-pin. I don't know if the pins are straight through or whether they do any swapping from one end to the other. alan FWIW, I'm in Prague, Czechia. Happy enough to package well and post anywhere if you're paying. :-D -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Sun external SMD cables
Anyone here have a set of Sun external SMD cables (530-1079 and 530-1080) that they can loan or want to sell? I ordered from a set from MemoryX at the beginning of Jan. They haven’t arrived and MemoryX isn’t answering my e-mail asking what’s up. alan
Re: OpenStep Solaris
On 1/6/20 3:53 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 at 00:22, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote: I demoed OpenStep Solaris on top of CDE in my last exhibit at VCF PNW. It could be awkward trying to figure out where to look for application's menu. Just to make things extra ugly, I ran MAE (Macintosh Application Environment) at the same time. I also have a SPARCstation 5 running OPENSTEP/Mach on SPARC. Any screeenshot galleries or better still videos anywhere? I found this photo that I took - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZjYMdZZrIygvsQas9b40QWW7uNxMeD1V/view?usp=sharing alan I live on a different continent from the one that most VCFs happen on, and have no desire to change. Lighthouse was also the source for the Sun CEO who gets a lot of blame for the fall of Sun. Well well. TIL.
Re: OpenStep Solaris
On 1/5/20 3:12 PM, Chris Hanson via cctalk wrote: On Jan 5, 2020, at 7:02 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: Sun *did* do a full port of OpenStep to Solaris, but while I know people who saw it, I am not sure if it got a full commercial release. Not quite! Sun was a participant in creating the OpenStep standard (the NS class prefix stands for “NeXT/Sun”) and *created their own implementation* of OpenStep for Solaris. (Just as GNUstep is an independent implementation of the OpenStep spec under the FSF umbrella, and OPENSTEP/Mach and OPENSTEP/Enterprise were NeXT’s implementations.) OpenStep Solaris was released, both the user and developer environment, and you should be able to find them today and install them on Solaris 2.5 or later. I think OpenStep will run on everything through Solaris 7 or Solaris 8, but at some point it stopped working because it required Display PostScript in the window server. I demoed OpenStep Solaris on top of CDE in my last exhibit at VCF PNW. It could be awkward trying to figure out where to look for application's menu. Just to make things extra ugly, I ran MAE (Macintosh Application Environment) at the same time. I also have a SPARCstation 5 running OPENSTEP/Mach on SPARC. Sun also bought a number of NeXTstep software houses, including Lighthouse, but didn't release the code. Indeed, that was post-OpenStep; they weren’t buying companies like Lighthouse to get a suite of applications for OpenStep Solaris, they were buying them to port their stuff to Java (since Java was based rather heavily on Objective-C, and some aspects of the Java frameworks’ designs on OpenStep). Lighthouse was also the source for the Sun CEO who gets a lot of blame for the fall of Sun. alan
Re: Odd vintage computer sellers
On 1/2/20 11:36 AM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote: [...] The seller is still trying to sell 2 of the original 6 S4000DXs (that at one point included the one that I have). However, the pricing has changed. Now, instead of the old base price of around $225, the base price is now $3060. Yes, $3000. But they are being offered with an 83% discount, so one can get a S4000DX for the low, low price of just under $500. I find this amazing and odd. What I think is amazing and odd is $3000 for basically untested systems. They don't even seem to connect up a serial console and see what the diagnostic messages are displayed. It's really rather ludicrous, given how even the IDT Solbournes really only run OS/MP. My affection for them is largely nostalgia; as SPARC systems they are quite finicky and the later SPARCstations surpassed even the S4100 in performance. Don't say that. I am still trying to sell one :) They are these great systems :) The cool heat sink! The Panasonic branded SPARC processor and other components! alan
Odd vintage computer sellers
Most of us who collect vintage computers probably have our own stories like this, but I find this so amusing that I just have to share it. Last year I did an exhibit on SPARC clones for VCF PNW and wanted to include a Solbourne in it. Unable to cajole Cameron into loaning me one :-), I went looking for one to buy on eBay. There was a seller with, among other Solbourne hardware, a listing for some number of IDT S4000DXs. They had started with 6 and were down to 4-5 when I started looking. IIRC, the base Buy-It-Now (BIN) price was around $225, but, when they didn't sell, they were relisted with a varying discount. In relistings, the BIN was as low as $167. In a relisting where the discounted price was $195 BIN, I offered $175. The seller didn't accept and, in the counter offer exchange, eventually went above the discounted price. I didn't go for that. Then, in the next relisting, the discounted price was $167. I bought one. They were being sold with a HDD and a Solbourne frame buffer (Sun frame buffers don't work in S4000DXs), but no keyboard or mouse (Solbournes use proprietary keyboards and mice). The one that I got had a dead Sun0424 (Seagate ST1480N) HDD and, I found out later, a broken frame buffer. I put in a SD2SCSI and installed OS/MP (Solbourne's version of BSD SunOS). From the serial console, it worked fine and I included the system in my VCF PNW exhibit. After the show, I spent some time trying to make a Solbourne to Sun keyboard adapter, but couldn't get it to work. I have had it up for sale for a few months (my attention is now focused on the barn-find Sun 3/260 that I hope to have working for this year's VCF PNW). But, back to the seller that I got the S4000DX from ... The seller is still trying to sell 2 of the original 6 S4000DXs (that at one point included the one that I have). However, the pricing has changed. Now, instead of the old base price of around $225, the base price is now $3060. Yes, $3000. But they are being offered with an 83% discount, so one can get a S4000DX for the low, low price of just under $500. I find this amazing and odd. alan
