[cctalk] Re: NTE is dead

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 10/1/2024 1:31 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:



And, you are very lucky!  We used to have two electronic stores, and now 
both have closed up.  


When I was a kid we had a dozen.  8 Retail and 4 wholesale (but
sold singles and small quantities to the public).  Today, we
also have none.  Radio shack was the last and we all know
where they went.

bill

[cctalk] Re: auction starting in 50 minutes

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 9/12/2024 10:44 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:

Yes, but a Christies certificate of authentication is a gold standard.



Only that you got it from Christies.

bill

[cctalk] Re: auction starting in 50 minutes

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 9/12/2024 9:31 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
I wonder if anyone has done a study of high-profile auction sale 
prices vs

apples to apples contemporary sales prices (ebay, etc) of the same item.
Paul Allen's [item name] will always sell for more that Joe Schmo's 
[item

name].  Buyer can forever say this was Paul Allen's [item name].  The
providence



On Thu, 12 Sep 2024, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:

How do you prove it?  Kinda like Babe Ruth baseballs.


The closest that you can get is records of the serial number.
And statements of experts.
A signed statement by Abby Sciuto 


I get a real laugh every time I see statements like this.
Back when I was still in the military (around 2005) I had
to attend a Navy Security briefing.  Everybody got a real
kick out of the opening (break the ice) statement that NCIS
didn't have a lab at all.  All their lab work was done by
Army CID at FT. Gillem, GA.

bill

[cctalk] Re: auction starting in 50 minutes

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 9/12/2024 9:01 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:

I wonder if anyone has done a study of high-profile auction sale prices vs
apples to apples contemporary sales prices (ebay, etc) of the same item.
Paul Allen's [item name] will always sell for more that Joe Schmo's [item
name].  Buyer can forever say this was Paul Allen's [item name].  The
providence


How do you prove it?  Kinda like Babe Ruth baseballs.


bill

[cctalk] Re: auction starting in 50 minutes

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 9/12/2024 8:29 PM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:

This lot-group is closed. Sale prices were insane.


https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/firsts-history-computing-paul-g-allen-collection/lots/3726
 


(In my estimation) a few items went for high but maybe-semi-sensible prices, 
everything else was stratosphere.

ASR-33:  24K$   !! ? !!




Well, that really sucks.  When I left New York back in 1987 I left an 
ASR-33 and a Lorenz LO-15 shoved way back in the eaves of the attic

in the house I lived in there.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Antonio's call for donations (was LCM auction)

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 8/30/2024 1:45 PM, Norman Jaffe via cctalk wrote:

You do realize that 'Pureblood' is a phrase most definitely associated with the 
Aryan Nations and other neo-Nazi, white supremacist hate groups?



And Wizards and Witches.  Don't forget them.

bill

[cctalk] Re: LCM auction

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 8/29/2024 2:46 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:

Speaking of Bill Gates, does anyone know if he collects?



He might collect something but I doubt it has anything to do
with computers.  I don't think he ever had any interest in
computers other than as a means to get rich.  And at the time
he started there were a  lot of snakeoil salesman so it was
easy for him to slide right in.

bill

[cctalk] Re: LCM auction

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 8/29/2024 8:11 AM, cz via cctalk wrote:
Unfortunately, museums are no longer a safe place for donated and rare 
artifacts. Paul Allen's heirs just want to keep their $17 billion for 
themselves.


Never have been. If there is one thing in life I have learned it's that 
the purpose of a museum is not to preserve history.


The purpose of a museum is to destroy history.


And let's not forget libraries.  I donated a book (Theological
Subject, another of my degree concentrations not computer related)
to the University library where I worked.  It lasted about 5 years 
before it was no longer on the shelf or in the card catalog.


bill

[cctalk] Re: LCM auction

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 8/27/2024 10:10 AM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:

On Fri, Aug 23, 2024, 5:33 AM Bill Degnan via cctalk 
wrote:



$3400 for the premier issue of Mac World?  Who would pay that much for
this?
Bill



That's pretty much what I'm thinking for the vast majority of this stuff.
The Altair 8800 issue of Poptronics sold for arounda K.

A lot of this stuff can be found on eBay at any given time for anywhere
from10 to 50 cents on the RR Auction dollar.



And who would pay a million for a Superman Comic?

At lest computer magazines (well, some of them) have real content
with real value.  Even if nowhere near $3400,

bill

[cctalk] Re: MS-DOS

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 8/6/2024 2:31 PM, maddox--- via cctalk wrote:

On 01.08.2024 16:28, Royce Taft via cctalk wrote:

Wasn’t Vista “Mojave”?


As others noted, "Mojave" was the name of a MacOS release.  There was, 
however, an ad campaign that Microsoft ran in an attempt to counter the 
bad press that Windows Vista was getting at the time of its launch.  In 
it, they showed folks who had been invited to try out a new future 
version of Windows in development called "Windows Mojave".  After they 
had seen a demo and made positive comments about it, it was then 
revealed that "Windows Mojave" was actually Vista.




I keep seeing all these bad comments about Vista.  Just what was
supposed to be wrong with it?  I ran it for more than a decade
and only stopped when MS deliberately broke it with the final
update.  It was a hell of a lot better than the crap that followed
it.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Estate Planning was: Re: Auction houses vs ebay

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 7/18/2024 8:56 AM, mark audacity romberg via cctalk wrote:

Why not arrange for a reseller or auction house to buy it wholesale, rather 
than having it all destroyed? It’s rare stuff that someone else could enjoy, 
and it doesn’t have to be sold piecemeal or involve her dealing with any of the 
details.


I once had a reseller offer me $100 for all my DEC stuff.  Including
two brand new, still in the box, modules that they were currently
selling for over $1000 each.  Nobody is going to "enjoy" any of it.
They will pay nothing, sell what has value at ridiculous prices and
trash the rest.  And today, I doubt they would even offer that much
for what I have.



Please don’t have rare, irreplaceable things that other people could enjoy 
destroyed. I perfectly understand not wanting to subject her to the hassle of 
selling everything, especially while she’s mourning, but there are other ways 
than sending them to the grinder.


Sadly, while we value these old computers, the world couldn't care
less and the actual value is mostly nothing.  I have piles of other
"collectables" like sports and other kinds of trading cards.  I have
attempted to sell a lot of it.  So far I have made maybe $20 total
on more than a dozen very old and supposedly rare baseball cards.
Most of the other stuff either sells for less than the postage needed
to send them anywhere or actually has no value at all no matter how
rare.

bill

[cctalk] Re: LCM auction pre-notice

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 7/14/2024 7:14 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:

Trying to compare a billionaire’s estate collection with people like us is 
futile. Most of us collectors will die and our collection wont be of interest 
to the IRS because it won’t amount to much. Pauls collection, on the other 
hand, will be of interest simply because he called out what to do with it when 
he dies (sell and proceeds to charity) and he’s a billionaire so they look very 
closely at estate where there could be significant tax revenue.


There is probably no tax revenue if it all really goes to charity.

bill

[cctalk] Re: LCM auction pre-notice

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 7/14/2024 12:27 PM, cz via cctalk wrote:
Thanks for the notice. Not that any of us will be high bidders but 
good to

at least follow along with the community that cares.


I'd be happy if a rich person bought the stuff, at least it would not be 
scrapped. 


What makes you think that?  Some rich guy may buy a whole computer
so he can get another keyboard to hang on the wall with the rest
of his keyboard collection.  And scrap the rest.

bill

[cctalk] Re: what to do with our "treasures"

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 6/27/2024 11:46 AM, Mark Linimon wrote:

On 06/27/2024 9:36 AM CDT Bill Gunshannon via cctalk
To date, I have sold nothing.  I once went back to the list that
suggested I use ebay to report my failure only to be greeted with,
"Well, what did you expect.  You are not an established seller."


I also have a whole pile of stuff that needs to go "somewhere".

Sounds like we more need a "make offer" page.  Is there somewhere on the
net that already does this?




As I previously stated I tried that just a month or two ago.
Got zero offers. Scrapped a whole bunch of stuff cause keeping
everything I have now just isn't an option anymore.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 6/27/2024 1:29 AM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:

On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 9:17 PM Doc Shipley via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


Much, much more important than the money, though, is the impact leaving
a large collection would have on my descendants. News Flash:

THESE TREASURES ARE THEIR TRASH.

It would be unconscionable for me to put any expectation on them to
"properly" dispose of my computers.  To do so would require a silly
amount of self-education for them to know even what these things ARE,
much less what they're worth and where to sell them.



Not necessarily.  It depends on the trash in question.  The second-hand
market is huge, and the computer collecting hobby is currently a thriving
part of it.


Only if the individual involved knows what the stuff is and is familiar
with that second hand market.  My wife has no idea what any of the stuff
in my basement is.



As long as there's time and worth (there is) to list everything on eBay,
doing so at the very least will ensure that the stuff ends up in
appreciative hands.  I don't subscribe to this idea that just because stuff
gets sold on eBay means it'll never again see the light of day.  First of
all, it's better than going into a dumpster.  And second, it takes money to
buy stuff on eBay.  The trend is up, and this stuff ain't cheap anymore.
And third, the people buying stuff on eBay are people like me, people who
work at computer museums, or run their own, etc.  The stuff on eBay is
probably going to a collector that's probably going to make use of it or
appreciate it.  LGR and Brad Hodges (YouTubers) are two people that
regularly feature stuff they buy off eBay on their channels.


Hogwash.  I have attempted many times to sell stuff on ebay.  Even at
the suggestion of people I would have thought were potential buyers.
To date, I have sold nothing.  I once went back to the list that
suggested I use ebay to report my failure only to be greeted with,
"Well, what did you expect.  You are not an established seller."
I have tried non-computer stuff, too.  I offered a Chilton Automotive
Repair Manual for a classic car.  I listed the cost of a USPS "If it
fits, It ships" padded envelope for postage.  Ebay denied my listing
saying I was asking to much for shipping.  At that point I quit trying
to sell anything on ebay.



Bottom line is that vintage computer stuff now has a lot of value, and


And yet, as recently as a couple months ago I couldn't garner any
interest in some items (mostly DEC) I had.


there's a generation of younger people coming up behind my generation that
has a definite interest in this stuff, from the 1990s PCs all the way back
to 1940s mainframes.  So even if they were to hire one of those companies
that comes and hauls everything away and sells it all on eBay and gives a
cut back to the owner, it will still result in much of your effort to
preserve historical computer stuff not at all being in vain.  Bonus if you
leave behind a detailed inventory with historical notes.



That sounds a lot to me like a DNR.  I am still waiting for someone
to explain to me why they think the EMT is going to go thru my pockets
looking for it when I am lying on the floor after having a heart attack.
If I left a detailed list of everything I have my wife would still not
have a clue what it was other than junk.

bill

PS.  My wife is a ham radio operator just like me and all the old Ham
gear I have would be in the same boat.

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 6/26/2024 9:47 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:

Everyone have their collections appraised and see what their worth. Might be 
eye-opening.



You are right.  Especially when the number comes in around $0.00.

I have attempted to sell off parts of my collection at various times
when situations forced it.  So far I have made a grand total of $0.00
selling vintage computer equipment.  I was once offered $100 for all
of my DEC Modules.  They wouldn't take things like tape drives, disk
drives or racks which made up the bulk of the stuff I really needed
to dispose of.  And to add insult to injury included in that collection
were two UNIBUS Ethernet Modules, brand new, still in the original
packing which the person offering the $100 was currently selling for
$1800 per.

I suspect when I go (and I expect to go before my wife) all of my
remaining stuff will go in the dumpster she will need to clean out
the house so she can sell it.

Value is seldom what people expect. My mother collected all that
crap that people like the Bradbury Mint and many other places sold
to unwitting spinsters and widows.  She also collected "First Day
Covers" from the USPS.  Buying Block Sheets with the Engraving
Numbers to match them.  She probably spent over $80,000 on that junk
in her lifetime.  When she died an appraiser was brought in.  The
estate got $1000 for everything.


bill

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 6/5/2024 9:33 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 9:03 AM Will Cooke via cctalk 
wrote:





On 06/05/2024 7:17 AM CDT Liam Proven via cctalk 

wrote:



It isn't personal if an ordinary person can't afford it.



That isn't _the people_. The People means hoi polloi. It means
ordinary people. It means the masses. A personal computer is only
personal if the person in question is an ordinary Joe.



To my mind, there are two things that define a computer as a personal
computer.  The first is what you say above, affordable by the masses.  The
second is "intended for" the masses.




So if a computer was built to be used by a single operator for general
purpose use, open to any application development but cost more than the
masses could afford, even if it was clear in the manual that the machine
was manufactured and intended to be used for general purpose computing,
it's not a "personal computer"?


I think the term "personal computer" is impossible to define.  Its
meaning will mean something different to just about anybody.  Kinda
like "intelligence".  Some accept IQ as a measurement.  Some accept
membership in Mensa as a measure of very high IQ.  I, on the other
hand, I see membership in Mensa a a factor requiring the subtraction
of at least 50 points from IQ because they were stupid enough to pay
someone for it.  :-)

bill

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 5/28/2024 2:28 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:

On 5/28/24 10:00, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk wrote:
Au crontraire, I belive the first mobile phones were mostly purchased 
by corporations for their executives to use, if the executive left, 
the phone stayed with the corporation.  Early mobile phones were NOT 
personal devices.


In 1971 or 1972 I was in the Washington DC airport executive lounge.  
Dolly Parton was in there, she had two gofers getting her coffee and 
stuff, and she had a large "bag phone" that she was on a lot of the 
time, presumably making arrangements for shows.  This was a 
square-cornered hard bag with a shoulder strap, and there was an 
old-style handset with a coil cord connected to it.  The bag was 
something like 10 by 8 x 4" and appeared to be quite heavy.  I am pretty 
sure the thing was "personal" to her.




My wife had one.  It was definitely personal.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Help? Programming SCM90448 EPROMs

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 5/28/2024 9:01 AM, emanuel stiebler wrote:

On 2024-05-28 08:46, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:


I would love to have copies of the image HEX files so I could get
some of mine running again.


What do you have, an 11/23+ or BDV?



I have both available.  But mostly I would like to find
images for my 11/23+ and 11/73 boards as I am finding
a lot of faded EPROMs when I dig thru stuff.  Problem with
things sitting idle for so many years,

bill

[cctalk] Re: terminology [was: First Personal Computer]

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 5/26/2024 2:11 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:
 
 how many people here still use the 16Kb (favorite machine)

with tape IO?


I can, and have recently.  TRS-80 Model I.  In order to do
some stuff with Tiny Pascal.   But not so much any more as
the machine also has 48K available if I hook up the EI and
it has floppies, hard disks and ethernet (with TCP/IP available)
when I need it.

bill

[cctalk] Re: terminology [was: First Personal Computer]

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 5/26/2024 2:50 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
 
I think the most important thing for a Personal Computer,

is the average Joe, can afford and use it. The second thing is
to have ample memory and IO to run useful programs. The  basic Apple 
I,II does not count as many others as it had BASIC in ROM and tape IO.


Why not? I have seen some very serious research done on Apple][
systems at the University where I worked.  I even have two of
them that I saved from the dumpster.


The third thing is a real OS. Nobody has one, as a personal computer.
CP/M and MSDOS does not handle IRQ's. Unix for the PDP-11 is real 
operating system but not personal as it requires a admin,and a swapping

media.


Tandy Color Computer running OS/9.  I have had as many as 5
simultaneous users on one.  Plus background tasks like a web
server.  Easily affordable since its inception.  Can run very
serious programs written in languages other than BASIC, plus
it had Basic09 which was a much more serious language than the
run-of-the-mill BASIC.

bill

[cctalk] Re: First Personal Computer

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 5/25/2024 12:09 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

On 5/25/24 08:14, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:


Yes, the Bendix G-15 was said to be the first personal computer. It was
as big as a refrigerator, and weighed a LOT more, and drew much more
power.  (300 vacuum tubes, 3000 Germanium diodes,  drum memory.)  but,
one guy could program it and run it.

The LINC comes in a close second.


Offhand, if I were King of the World, I'd immediately eliminate from
competition those computers that cannot be run from a US 120 volt 15 amp
wall receptacle.   The rationale being that anything that requires
special power wiring cannot be "personal"



None of the houses I have lived in were limited to 120V 15A.  Even my
very first apartment 50 years ago (over some guys garage) had 120V 30A
(Intended for an A/C Unit but you could plug anything in it you wanted.)
Every house I have owned had 230V available.  I have several large power
outlets in my current home.  Range, clothes dryer, water heater, hot
tub.  And I have 220V 50A in the garage feeding my welder, electric
heater and a 30A outlet for my camper.

In the past I have had PDP-11's (with RL and RA disks), VAX, AT&T 3b's,
an Apollo (great space heater on cold winter days)  and piles of systems
people are more likely to accept as "Personal".

bill

[cctalk] Re: Help? Programming SCM90448 EPROMs

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 5/27/2024 5:47 AM, emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote:

On 2024-05-26 12:30, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:

On Sun, May 26, 2024 at 4:26 AM Glen Slick  wrote:



Anyway, if the SCM90448 EPROMs for your M8189 KDF11-B are actually
Motorola MC68764 / MC68766 EPROMs, 


I have one board with MCM68766 and two boards with SCM90448


I have BP Microsystems device
programmers that can handle those. I have programmed some of those
myself for my own M8189 KDF11-B. 


Excellent!


Are you looking to get set up with
the 23-380E4 / 23-381E4 M8189-BG firmware?


Yup! Actually hoping for:
MicroPDP-11/23 ROM v1.1 (23-453E4 and 23-454E4


Those Motorola EPROMs require a Vpp of 25 volts, which is probably why
a lot of modem device programmers don't handle them.

OK!


I would love to have copies of the image HEX files so I could get
some of mine running again.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Thirties techies and computing history

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 5/19/2024 11:14 AM, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote:

A friend of a friend had a birthday gathering. Everyone there was in their 
thirties, except for myself, my wife, and our friend. Anyway, I met a Google 
engineer, a Microsoft data scientist, an Amazon AWS recruiter (I think she was 
a recruiter), and a few others in tech who are friends with the party host. I 
had several conversations about computer origins, the early days of computing, 
its importance in what we have today, and so on. What I found disappointing and 
saddening at the same time is their utmost ignorance about computing history or 
even early computers. Except for their recall of the 3.5 floppy or early 2000’s 
Windows, there was absolutely nothing else that they were familiar with. That 
made me wonder if this is a sign that our living version of classical personal 
computing, in which many of us here in this group witnessed the invention of 
personal computing in the 70s, will stop with our generation. I assume that the 
most engaging folks in this newsgroup are in their fifties and beyond. (No 
offense to anyone. I am turning fifty myself)  I sense that no other generation 
following this user group's generation will ever talk about Altairs, CP/M s, 
PDPs, S100 buses, Pascal, or anything deemed exciting in computing. Is there 
hope, or is this the end of the line for the most exciting era of personal 
computers? Thoughts?



I'm 73.  How do you think I feel.  I worked for 25 years in a Computer
Science Department of a University and not only did they not teach any
of the history.  They mostly didn't know it themselves anyway.  I kept
PDP-11's and Vaxen in the department for the students to see and, if
they wished, use but eventually I was told it was wasting space and
when they moved the department to the new science building there was
no space allocated for anything but the bare minimum of equipment.

bill

[cctalk] ANSI-M (Mumps) and the VA

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

With the VA dropping Vista what happens to that army of Mumps
programmers they had?  Can't see much call for them in the IT
world today.  Seems like a worse fate than COBOL Programmers.

bill

[cctalk] Re: APL (Was: BASIC

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 5/8/2024 10:30 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:




On May 8, 2024, at 10:25 AM, Harald Arnesen via cctalk  
wrote:

Paul Koning via cctalk [07/05/2024 19.31]:


(Then again, I had a classmate who was taking a double major: math and music 
composition...)


Mathemathics and music is not a rare combination - see Tom Lehrer, for instance.
--
Hilsen Harald


My wife (a voice major) pointed out that instrumental music majors tend to be 
good at math; voice majors not so much.


Too bad it isn't reciprocal.  I was great at math from a very early age.
Did Algebra and Geometry in grade school.  I have at least a half dozen
instruments and I suck at all of them.  I can play very technically on
most of them but I have no art and can not put any real feeling into the
music I play.  But then, I only play for myself so I guess it really
doesn't matter./  :-)

bill

[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 5/6/2024 2:28 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:
> You do need a very strong magnet. I’ve put 3.5 floppies on top of
> a mag tape demagnitizer ( not technically called that, but you know
> what i mean) and it had no effect at all. I could still read them fine
> in my pc. I surmised that the magnetic field generated was not strong
> enough to get through the plastic disk shield. Gave up after that.

And yet, I have a cheap Radio Shack tape degauzer and it erases
3.5" disks just fine.  I do it all the time whenever I have
one that refuses to reformat.  Quick pass over the degauzer
and they usually work fine.  If not, time to toss them.
As for 720K disks I bought a box of new ones (12 boxes actually)
several years ago on eBay and expect they will out last me.
Especially now that I am moving everything to Goteks.

bill

[cctalk] Re: BASIC

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 5/3/2024 10:13 AM, KenUnix via cctalk wrote:

Steve,

Where would you fit the Tandy Model 100 in here? Ultimately it supported a
disk drive,
ran basic and also sported an expansion box that included video support and
a floppy.



Ultimately, so did the TRS-80.  At least Model I, III and 4.
and ethernet, too.  Come to think of it, so does the Color
Computer.  Not sure where we are going with this.  :-)

bill

[cctalk] Re: MS-DOS source code

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 5/2/2024 9:27 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote:

On Thu, 2 May 2024, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote:

Some may find this interesting.  Microsoft has released the source for 
MS-DOS versions 1.25, 2, and 4.


https://github.com/microsoft/MS-DOS



I think the most interesting thing about this is that they published it 
under an actual open source license (MIT) and not that nonsense that was 
used when they released 1.25 and 2.0 through the CHM years ago.




All kind of meaningless as we have had an Open Source DOS equivalent
for 3 decades already.

bill

[cctalk] Re: APL (Was: BASIC

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 5/1/2024 8:04 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

On 5/1/24 16:51, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:


APL was incredible.  I was amazed.  I was immediately able to do a few
simple things that were useful for my boss and myself, and writing
simple programs within hours.  Its matrix arithmetic was awesome. APL
typeball on a selectric terminal at GSFC, . . .
Some of the keys were re-labeled, but there was a chart on the wall of
which keyboard characters were which APL symbols.


It was indeed.  It was also one of the first languages implemented on a
microprocessor-based personal computer system.  (MCM-70).

To me, APL is logical--strict right-to-left precedence; simple array and
matrix operations.

I've long wondered if we introduced students to APL as a first language,
what our applications code would look like today.


Marist College did.  We had an intern from there when I was at
West Point.  He was not better than any of the interns I later
ran into and because the only language he was learning at Marist
was APL (after all, this was IBM-Land) he was really not of much
use to us in a Univac-1100 shop.

bill

[cctalk] Re: APL (Was: BASIC

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 5/1/2024 7:51 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:


What would our world be like if the first home computers were to have 
had APL, instead of BASIC?




Maybe not instead of BASIC but I had APL on my TRS-80.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Altair 8800 50th birthday...

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 4/27/2024 7:43 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:

Magazine cover january, and into 1975 the revolution.  So I'd say all
year.  Not one specific date


I had that magazine.  Wish I hadn't thrown it away oh so many
years ago.

But even at that, nothing for me to celebrate.  I couldn't afford
one then and I still can't afford one.  The same goes for the
IMSAI-8080.  And the Heath H-8 falls into the same category.  :-(

bill

[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 4/23/2024 8:06 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

Did the Dimension 68000 (a multi-processor machine) have Z80 and 6502?



What about the Tandy 16 and 6000.  M68K and Z80.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 4/22/2024 2:30 PM, Paul Koning wrote:




On Apr 22, 2024, at 2:09 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk  
wrote:



Following along this line of thought but also in regards all our
other small CPUs

Would it not be possible to use something like a Blue Pill to make
a small board (small enough to actually fit in the CPU socket) that
emulated these old CPUs?  Definitely enough horse power just wondered
if there was enough room for the microcode.


Microcode?


Well, that's what I would have called it.  :-)




It would bring an even more interesting concept to the table.  The
ability to add modifications to some of these chips to see just where
they might have gone.  While I don't mind the VAX, I always wondered
what the PDP-11 could have been if it had been developed instead.  :-)

bill


Of course the VAX started out as a modified PDP-11; the name makes that clear.  
And I saw an early document of what became the VAX 11/780, labeled PDP-11/85.  
Perhaps that was obfuscation.


I have never seen anything but the vaguest similarity to the PDP-11 in
the VAX.  I know it was called a VAX-11 early on but I never understood
why.



Anyway, I would think such a small microprocessor could emulate a PDP-11 just 
fine, and probably fast enough.  The issue isn't so much the instruction set 
emulation but rather the electrical interface.  That's what would be needed to 
be a drop-in replacement.  Ignoring the voltage levels, there's the matter of 
implementing whatever the bus protocols are.

Possibly an RP2040 (the engine in the Raspberry Pico) would serve for this, 
with the PIO engines providing help with the low level signaling.  Sounds like 
a fun exercise for the student.


I wasn't thinking just the PDP-11.  I was thinking about the ability
to replace failing CPU's of other flavors once production come to an
end.  I suspect that is far enough in the future that I won't have to
worry about it, but it sounded like an interesting project.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

Following along this line of thought but also in regards all our
other small CPUs

Would it not be possible to use something like a Blue Pill to make
a small board (small enough to actually fit in the CPU socket) that
emulated these old CPUs?  Definitely enough horse power just wondered
if there was enough room for the microcode.

It would bring an even more interesting concept to the table.  The
ability to add modifications to some of these chips to see just where
they might have gone.  While I don't mind the VAX, I always wondered
what the PDP-11 could have been if it had been developed instead.  :-)

bill

[cctalk] Re: Drum memory on pdp11's? Wikipedia thinks so....

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

A README in the root of 2.11 says:

The following manual pages are NOT in 2.10BSD but ARE in 4.3BSD:

and one of them is drum.4

so, I guess we need to look at a 4.3BSD system to find out what
drum they are talking about.  I have a feeling this is a device
that works on the VAX but is actually not found on any PDP-11.
Why it automatically makes the device node is beyond me.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Drum memory on pdp11's? Wikipedia thinks so....

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 4/15/2024 9:45 AM, Jonathan Chapman via cctalk wrote:

Well, I can submit a correction, but does anyone remember /dev/drum? I
don't recall that in V6m or V7 Unix, I guess I could fire one of them up
and see


There's at least references to /dev/drum in 2.11BSD, I forget if it was in the 
docs or actually important stuff in the source. I don't have my PDP-11/83 set 
up at the moment to check!



I just fired up my running copy and while there is a /dev/drum device
there does not appear to be any mention of it anywhere in the file
system, not even in the sources.  Not sure what that means.  Have to
try a deeper search but that will take some time to run.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

One last shot.

I have an RX Floppy disk unit.  Worked fine until one
time the last time I had it hooked  up and after about
an hour it just stopped responding.  All I get now is
the well known click-click on init and then nothing. I
am sure it is repairable either by troubleshooting or
just buying another boardset.

Anybody interested?  I imagine a number of people  here
will be driving by not far from my home on their way back
from VCF.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Turbo Pascal Kermit for CP/M

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 4/10/2024 6:54 AM, Martin.Hepperle--- via cctalk wrote:

Did you compile in memory or to disk? If you have little RAM, it might be 
advantageous to compile to disk, creating a .COM file.




And the winner is
It's been so long since I used Turbo anything I had forgotten
that option.  It compiled fine.  Doesn't work, but at least it
compiled.  :-)   Thank you.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Turbo Pascal Kermit for CP/M

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 4/8/2024 5:00 PM, Fred Cisin wrote:

On Mon, 8 Apr 2024, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:

I'm having  bit of fun with my various CP/M systems but I ran into
what I see as an interesting problem.  I got Turbo Pascal on two 
systems.  A TRS-80 model 4P running Montezuma Micro CP/M and a TRS-80

Model II running Pickles & Trout CP/M.  I tried to compile the version
of Kermit written for CP/M using Turbo Pascal.  On both systems it
runs out of memory and crashes in the same place.  Surely the developers
would have noticed this.  Anybody here have any experience with this?


Have you tried it with "CP/M PLUS"?  (CP/M 3.0, which Radio Shack sold 
for the model 4)


Not yet.  I don't have a 3.0 setup with a hard disk yet and I doubt
everything will fit on a floppy.



Does the Turbo Pascal run on those machines with trivial source file?
or subsets of the Kermit code?


Haven't tried any other programs yet as I really wanted Kermit but
none of the other CP/M Kermits work on these machines (at least not
so far) but the problem does appear to be that the program is just
to big.

I just can't believe none of he developers noticed or maybe that
was the point where they all gave up.  :-)

bill

[cctalk] Re: Turbo Pascal Kermit for CP/M

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 4/8/2024 5:17 PM, Gavin Scott via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, Apr 8, 2024 at 2:19 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk
 wrote:

I'm having  bit of fun with my various CP/M systems but I ran into
what I see as an interesting problem.  I got Turbo Pascal on two
systems.


If it's an old version of TP that asks "Include error messages
(Y/N)?", did you try saying N?


Same error, one file further along.

bill

[cctalk] Turbo Pascal Kermit for CP/M

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

I'm having  bit of fun with my various CP/M systems but I ran into
what I see as an interesting problem.  I got Turbo Pascal on two 
systems.  A TRS-80 model 4P running Montezuma Micro CP/M and a TRS-80

Model II running Pickles & Trout CP/M.  I tried to compile the version
of Kermit written for CP/M using Turbo Pascal.  On both systems it
runs out of memory and crashes in the same place.  Surely the developers
would have noticed this.  Anybody here have any experience with this?



bill

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 4/4/2024 3:49 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:

On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 10:20 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:



Not really sure I want to get rid of them yet, but what do Apple II's
go for nowadays?  I have an Apple II with 2 Disk II's and a language
card.  I also have an Apple IIe with three external disk cards and
2 3.5" drives and 3 5.25" drives.  It also has a Microsoft Soft Card
for running CP/M.  And I have the docs and disks.

bill



It depends on the model.  Typically an Apple ][ of any model sells for
$100-$250, depending on accessories and configuration. Unless you have a
straight Apple ][ (and not Plus, as I'm assuming), what you describe sounds
like a $250-$300 ][+ system, and $400-$450 for the //e.  Give or take eBay
markup.



Well, The SoftCard and the Language Card (why did they call it that?)
both go for $100 a piece.  The one is a IIe, not a \\e.  There are
some on eBay now for more than $2000.  I wouldn't expect that but I
do find it interesting that all the stuff I have is worthless unless
someone else is selling it.  :-)

bill

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 4/4/2024 2:39 PM, Zane Healy wrote:



On Apr 4, 2024, at 8:05 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk 
 wrote:


 7 - 230M Carts  (one labeled RSTS V10)


Is the RSTS/E disk something that needs to be preserved?



Not by me.  And I created it.  Not sure if it was from an 11/44,
11/73 or 11/23 but it dates back to when Mentec gave me a license
to run PDP-11 OSes at the University.  As a matter of fact, I see
where I still have the TK50 and 9-track install tapes.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

Not really sure I want to get rid of them yet, but what do Apple II's
go for nowadays?  I have an Apple II with 2 Disk II's and a language
card.  I also have an Apple IIe with three external disk cards and
2 3.5" drives and 3 5.25" drives.  It also has a Microsoft Soft Card
for running CP/M.  And I have the docs and disks.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 4/4/2024 11:05 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:




One more list before I give up.

Anybody interested in Iomega drive?

I have:
     2 - 90 Pro
     2 - 150 Multidisk
and somewhere here I have a 230M but I haven't come across it yet.

To go along with them I have:
     4 - 90M Carts
     3 - 150M Carts  (one labeled Windows NT)
     7 - 230M Carts  (one labeled RSTS V10)

I also have shoe boxes if SIMMS and DIMMS some going back to
the Sparc Pizza boxes.


I also have piles of IDE drives that range from the days when you
had "disk types" for the PC Bios up to GB sizes.  Also, CD drives
including a bunch of various laptop models.

I have piles of other stuff, too, but I am not going to bother
listing as I thought the most valuable were the brand new DEC
disks and the SB shelves but they apparently aren't worth a thing.



Found the 230 drive.  Actually two of them.  And both in external
boxes.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 4/4/2024 11:36 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

On 4/4/24 08:05, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:


One more list before I give up.

Anybody interested in Iomega drive?

I have:
     2 - 90 Pro
     2 - 150 Multidisk
and somewhere here I have a 230M but I haven't come across it yet.

To go along with them I have:
     4 - 90M Carts
     3 - 150M Carts  (one labeled Windows NT)
     7 - 230M Carts  (one labeled RSTS V10)

I also have shoe boxes if SIMMS and DIMMS some going back to
the Sparc Pizza boxes.


Just to be clear, Bill, these are the 5.25" Bernoulli drives, right?



Was there any other kind?

Oh yeah, I also have one marketed for use on the Mac.  It says 88M
on the front.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

One more list before I give up.

Anybody interested in Iomega drive?

I have:
2 - 90 Pro
2 - 150 Multidisk
and somewhere here I have a 230M but I haven't come across it yet.

To go along with them I have:
4 - 90M Carts
3 - 150M Carts  (one labeled Windows NT)
7 - 230M Carts  (one labeled RSTS V10)

I also have shoe boxes if SIMMS and DIMMS some going back to
the Sparc Pizza boxes.


I also have piles of IDE drives that range from the days when you
had "disk types" for the PC Bios up to GB sizes.  Also, CD drives
including a bunch of various laptop models.

I have piles of other stuff, too, but I am not going to bother
listing as I thought the most valuable were the brand new DEC
disks and the SB shelves but they apparently aren't worth a thing.

bill

[cctalk] Re: EMP was: oscilloscopes

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 4/2/2024 1:47 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:

Absolutely, by all means go right ahead.

As you pointed out, the NEC absolutely requires bonding all ground rods.  And 
Roger Block spells out in quite some detail why this is important in his books.

Come to think of it, apart from bonding electrical system grounds, I think 
there's also a requirement for bonding other metal objects that are anywhere 
nearby, like other utilities.  I'm not sure about the details; they should be 
in the NEC or in building codes.




Propane tanks and their associated gas lines.

bill

[cctalk] Re: EMP was: oscilloscopes

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 4/2/2024 11:01 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:

On 4/2/24 00:03, Just Kant via cctalk wrote:
Accordimg to certain individuals on this list, going back a few years, 
electronics/computers can be damaged due to an electrical storm, 
presumably very intense activity, even while off. Go look through the 
archives.


I have had two incidents where nearby lightning strikes blew out 
components on gear I had.  Many years ago, I had two computers connected 
by a parallel port cable, and chips on both ends were popped by a strike 
that might have hit power lines about two blocks away.


About a decade ago, we had a lightning strike that hit trees half a 
block away.  It took out an ethernet port on one computer, and blew out 
a bunch of stuff on a burglar alarm I had built.  Both involved long 
wire runs.


I have had lots of stuff taken out by lightening.  Even when it
wasn't particularly close but hit a power line as much as a mile
away.

On a much more interesting note, I used to live in a cute little
farmhouse in New Windsor, NY.  Our power came in a a line that
hung across the vacant lot next to me. About 500 yards.  We took
a direct hit on that line one night.  Dog got shocked by pulse
came thru the stone floor of the mud room.  A TRS-80 was toast.
A modem was toast.  TV and a few other household items.  There
was a Terak 8510 not only plugged in but running at the time. It
didn't even reboot.  Just kept on plugging along.  Nobody made
them  like DEC did.

bill

[cctalk] Re: oscilloscopes

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 4/1/2024 7:12 PM, Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote:

And still works! Built to withstand an atomic bombardment.


Except for the EMP.   It'll theoretically render such devices nice looking, 
well-built scrap.

The old completely vacuum-tube-based, discrete component oscilloscope from back 
in the day  may actually survive such an event if it's outside the blast radius 
but still reasonably sheltered; and you are also outside lethal fallout zones, 
or can shelter and survive in radioactivity-safe places for a long time.

Stock up on quality-made (e.g., Tektronix, Hewlett Packard) tube and 
cold-cathode-based test equipment (VTVM, oscilloscope, etc.) as well as quality 
radios and transceivers.   Hopefully they will continue to serve as interesting 
artifacts of a time gone by, but if something were to go sideways in our world, 
they could potentially come in very handy.




You do realize that in the event of such an occurrence there
would be nothing left to use them on.  :-)

bill

[cctalk] Re: oscilloscopes

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 4/1/2024 6:56 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, 1 Apr 2024, Just Kant via cctalk wrote:
I have more then I need. All the working ones are HP w/color crts, and 
as far as older, verifiably vintage tools (right down to the 680x0 
processor in either) I have to admit I favor them as a brand. Call we 
an oddball, weird egg, badges I wear with pride.
But who could resist the allure of the newer ultra portable, even 
handheld units (some with bandwidth or sampling rates to 50mhz). I'm a 
big cheapo. But there's no real reason to agonize over a 65 - 200$ or 
thereabouts acquisition. It's a bit tiring to wade through the piles 
of availability. I favor a desktop unit, larger screen (but not 
always, careful). But most of those need wall current I think? The 
convenience of a handheld battery powered unit obviously has it's 
benefits.
I will always love and dote upon my color crt based HPs. But the 
damned things are so heavy, so unwieldy. Judy-Jude knocked my 54111d 
over, hit the paved floor, shook the house. And still works! Built to 
withstand an atomic bombardment.


I had a Tektronix 512,
and an NLS215 (battery powered portable) from a company that switched 
over to making Kaypros.  I gave it away at one of the first VCFs.

I guess that the vintage ones are no longer adequate.


My first one was a Heathkit I built.  I now carry mine in my shirt
pocket.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 3/28/2024 7:29 PM, Alexander Schreiber via cctalk wrote:

On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 05:02:10PM +, Alessandro Mazzini via cctalk wrote:

Sorry if I intrude... now is no more possible to obtain hobbyist licenses for 
vms ??


Not for OpenVMS/VAX, that stopped more than a year ago. IIRC you _can_
get something like[1] it for OpenVMS/amd64 from VMS Software.

The only legal[0] workaround for VMS on VAX is to go back all the way
before LMF was introduced which IIRC means running VMS 4.4 and nothing
newer.

Sad and mildly irritating, but nothing we can do about it.

Kind regards,
 Alex.

[0] Personal opinion. Worth every cent you paid for it. I'm not a lawyer
 and I never played one on TV. Void were prohibited. Caveat emptor.
[1] Last time I checked, there was a time limited "educational purposes"
 virtual machine image one could download and run with the appropriate
 hypervisor software.


^^
That is going away, too.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 3/28/2024 3:08 PM, Doug McIntyre via cctalk wrote:

On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 01:47:03PM -0400, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:

On 3/28/2024 1:25 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:




On Mar 28, 2024, at 1:02 PM, Alessandro Mazzini via cctalk 
 wrote:

Sorry if I intrude... now is no more possible to obtain hobbyist licenses for 
vms ??


You can still get one for OpenVMS/x86.



As of the past few days, that may not be the case anymore.



The newsletter I received said that they are dropping Alpha/Integrity
OpenVMS licensing, but x86 licensing will continue. (VAX licenses have
been gone for awhile, from before VSI??).

"We will continue to offer community licenses for OpenVMS on x86. You can apply 
here"
https://vmssoftware.com/products/licenses/



A second letter the same day said that the Community License was
done. X86 will be a pre-configured VM, good for one year at which
time it will be replaced with a new VM.  Most people see that as
meaning if you use it every year you will have to re-do anything
you did to the image that was not part of the original.


And also

"We are also launching the OpenVMS Ambassador program. As an OpenVMS Ambassador, you 
can get a custom OpenVMS license for Alpha, Integrity or x86 free of charge. Read more 
about the OpenVMS Ambassador program and apply here"
https://share.hsforms.com/131UO5x_iSEGxlYs8pQTYSQdi37l



Read the requirements.  Most Hobbyists would not qualify.  I certainly
wouldn't.

I have been a VMS User for about 44 years and an systems administrator
for about 30 years.  At this point, I see the light at the end of the
tunnel.  And I suspect it is an oncoming train.


bill

[cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 3/28/2024 1:25 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:




On Mar 28, 2024, at 1:02 PM, Alessandro Mazzini via cctalk 
 wrote:

Sorry if I intrude... now is no more possible to obtain hobbyist licenses for 
vms ??


You can still get one for OpenVMS/x86.



As of the past few days, that may not be the case anymore.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 3/28/2024 12:47 PM, Warner Losh wrote:



On Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 5:37 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk 
mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:



I know this is a real long shot but is there any chance someone
has a copy of the original distribution of the Amoeba OS from
the University in the Netherlands?  Searching the web finds only
the current version which runs on X86.  I am looking for the
original which also ran on Sparc and (of the most interest to
me) the VAX.


https://github.com/OSPreservProject/amoeba 
<https://github.com/OSPreservProject/amoeba> has the sun binaries but 
not the vax/mips binaries.




That's the current version.  I am surprised they have Sun but
I also expect it is not the Suns from the original which were
Sun 3 and Sparc pizza boxes.

We used the Sparc version at the University of Scranton.  Some Grad
students did research and their thesis on Amoeba.  We had a whole lab
dedicated to it and it was really cool.

I have a nice stack of Vaxstation 3100's sitting around and now that
you can no longer get hobbyist licenses for VMS I thought it  might
be fun to create an Amoeba Cluster.   If any like minded people popped
up it might be fun to try and build a really large and widely separated
cluster just to see if it would have been possible.

bill

[cctalk] Amoeba OS

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

I know this is a real long shot but is there any chance someone
has a copy of the original distribution of the Amoeba OS from
the University in the Netherlands?  Searching the web finds only
the current version which runs on X86.  I am looking for the
original which also ran on Sparc and (of the most interest to
me) the VAX.

Remember when they said now that we had the web nothing would
ever be lost again?  :-(

bill

[cctalk] Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 3/26/2024 9:15 AM, Paul Koning wrote:




On Mar 26, 2024, at 8:57 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk  
wrote:



On 3/25/2024 9:51 PM, Henry Bent wrote:

On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 at 20:14, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:
Oops.  I guess the fingers work as good as the memory.  Sorry
about that.  I've got about 20 of them.  I know they haven't
been used since they were taken out of the VAX Cluster I ran
at the University.  Nothing I have used the SB boxes with since
then would know what to do with 9GB of disk space.  :-)
But, if needed I could probably test them on a PC I have with
an Adaptec SCSI in it.  It's intended for Ersatz-11 but I expect
does could use a disk that big.  Too bad there's no way to read
them.  Might be some interesting stuff left behind by the VAX.
Why is there no way to read them?  If you have a PC with a SCSI card you can 
easily boot into the Linux or BSD distro of your choice and make a dd (or 
ddrescue) image of the entire drive, which could then be accessed by whatever 
means.



These disks were part of a really large RAID array in a SAN connected to
the VAX cluster.  There is no way of reconstructing it and so no way to
extract usable information.

bill


Do you have just part of the RAID set, or enough disks to make a complete one?  


Don't know, but doubt it.  Some of the disks have probably been used
for other purposes since the VAXen went away more than 20 years ago.

 If the latter then it's a matter of reverse engineering the RAID layout, 
 which is likely to be doable.


While possible, I think hardly likely.  I don't even remember what the
appliance was.  Something DECish.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 3/25/2024 9:51 PM, Henry Bent wrote:
On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 at 20:14, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk 
mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:



Oops.  I guess the fingers work as good as the memory.  Sorry
about that.  I've got about 20 of them.  I know they haven't
been used since they were taken out of the VAX Cluster I ran
at the University.  Nothing I have used the SB boxes with since
then would know what to do with 9GB of disk space.  :-)
But, if needed I could probably test them on a PC I have with
an Adaptec SCSI in it.  It's intended for Ersatz-11 but I expect
does could use a disk that big.  Too bad there's no way to read
them.  Might be some interesting stuff left behind by the VAX.


Why is there no way to read them?  If you have a PC with a SCSI card you 
can easily boot into the Linux or BSD distro of your choice and make a 
dd (or ddrescue) image of the entire drive, which could then be accessed 
by whatever means.





These disks were part of a really large RAID array in a SAN connected to
the VAX cluster.  There is no way of reconstructing it and so no way to
extract usable information.

bill

[cctalk] Plessey 703185-100C

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

So, sorting thru stuff I came across this white elephant again.
I never found anything to positively identify it but I always
assumed it was some kind of buss extender.  One board is fully
populated with chips and the other connected together with a
ribbon cable is totally passive.

But this time I found the funniest thing about it.  The passive
end has a sticker on it with an expiration date.  I have to admit
I have never found an expiration date on any of my PDP or VAX
hardware before.  :-)

bill

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 3/25/2024 6:19 PM, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 at 18:05, Mike Stein via cctalk 
wrote:


Is there a manufacturer's equivalent number for an RX-1DB?



I believe that Bill was referring to the RZ1DB, which is a 9.1GB Quantum
Atlas II.


Oops.  I guess the fingers work as good as the memory.  Sorry
about that.  I've got about 20 of them.  I know they haven't
been used since they were taken out of the VAX Cluster I ran
at the University.  Nothing I have used the SB boxes with since
then would know what to do with 9GB of disk space.  :-)
But, if needed I could probably test them on a PC I have with
an Adaptec SCSI in it.  It's intended for Ersatz-11 but I expect
does could use a disk that big.  Too bad there's no way to read
them.  Might be some interesting stuff left behind by the VAX.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 3/25/2024 1:49 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:




In case it piques someone's interest, a number of the used disks
in the SB style carriers are 9GB RX1DB's .  Even I had forgotten
that any of them were that big.  Of course, the probably eliminates
their use on a PDP or VAX but they are still Ultra Wide SCSI if you
take them out of the box.  :-)




And, just for yocks I looked for them on the web.  Amazing how many
people are selling them with bogus specs like 10,000 RPM.  :-)

bill

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

In case it piques someone's interest, a number of the used disks
in the SB style carriers are 9GB RX1DB's .  Even I had forgotten
that any of them were that big.  Of course, the probably eliminates
their use on a PDP or VAX but they are still Ultra Wide SCSI if you
take them out of the box.  :-)

bill

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 3/23/2024 11:16 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:



Here's something operators of older systems might find useful.

Allied Telesis CentreCOM 210TS Twisted Pair Transciever
    IEE 802.3 10 BASE-T (MAU)

I have 14 used and another 14 still in the box, never been opened.




Wow!!!   Maybe I should try eBay again.  I was going to let
them go for $20-$25 but I according to google they are listing
for $180 to $250.  :-)

bill

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

Here's something operators of older systems might find useful.

Allied Telesis CentreCOM 210TS Twisted Pair Transciever
   IEE 802.3 10 BASE-T (MAU)

I have 14 used and another 14 still in the box, never been opened.

bill

[cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11?

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 3/21/2024 9:19 PM, W2HX via cctalk wrote:

I just got a pdp-11 to boot and it seems to have rt-11 installed.  How do I do 
an orderly shutdown? Google has info on simh but this ain't that.

Thanks!
73 Eugene w2hx




Turn off the power switch.  Unlike most other OSes people here
are familiar with there are no background processes running on
RT-11.

bill
KB3YV

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 3/21/2024 6:52 PM, mark audacity romberg via cctalk wrote:

Why are you paying for postage as an eBay seller? Buyer paying postage is the 
standard.


At sub $20 they aren't worth the effort.  It would
cost more than that in postage.


And if the cost of shipping is more than the cost of the item
I stop at that point.

As another note, back when I tried to be an eBay seller, I had
eBay refuse to let me sell things claiming I was asking too
much for postage.  Being as the only shipping method I ever used
was the USPS "if it fits it ships" which seemed to be pretty
much the cheapest method I could find.  It seemed they wanted
me to subsidize the shipping myself.  I gave up trying.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 3/21/2024 2:02 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:

On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 10:58 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:



Are Wacom CTE-430 tablets worth anything?

bill



Bill,

eBay is good for gauging interest and pricing out stuff like this.  Recent
sales there show there is at least general interest, and they seem to sell
for sub-$20 each.



As a buyer I have done well on eBay.  As a seller all I ever did was
waste my time.  At sub $20 they aren't worth the effort.  It would
cost more than that in postage.

How about an HP Scanjet IIcx scanner with SCSI interface.  Other than
historical value probably not much interest there either.

bill

[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

Are Wacom CTE-430 tablets worth anything?

bill

[cctalk] Cleanup time again

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

Time to dispose of some more of my stuff so it doesn't
end up in the trash when my widow has to clear the house.

Any interest in BA356-SBs?  All with disks in them.  And
I have a decent stack of used RZs in caddies.  I even still
have 11 RZ28's still in the static bags.  Would have to be
someone close enough to pick them up here in the Poconos but
I have seen a lot of postings from people in Eastern PA and
north and middle NJ.

Is it worth my taking the time to count up exactly what I
have or would no one be interested in making an offer.
They will not be going on eBay.

Just for information, I have used these with PDP-11's
with 3rd party SCSI modules, PC's with SCSI Cards and
Ersatz-11 and even a Tandy Color Computer with a TC^3
SCSI card and NitrOS9.

bill

[cctalk] DEC Processor Books

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

I have often wondered about the people we find in the various
DEC Processor (and other) books.  Were they models in staged
photo-sessions or were these candid shots from DEC facilities
and if so, can anyone identify who they might be.

Looking thru some of the books again I came across an interesting
photo on page 42 of the 1981 pdp11 processor handbook / pdp11 04
24 34a 44 70.  If you take a magnifier to the picture you will
find the system presented in that photo is not a pdp11 but a VAX.  :-)
I wonder what other DEC systems are contained in these photos?

bill

[cctalk] Re: 5 1/4" and 3.5" disk duplication machines

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 3/10/2024 1:13 AM, Travis Pierce via cctalk wrote:

I definitely do.  I rebuilt a Trace ST8000 last year and got it up and
running.   I also built a 5.25" duplicator with 12 drives a few months
back.   I'd love to find a commercial 5.25" duplicator.

Travis


On Sat, Mar 9, 2024 at 2:55 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk 
wrote:


Does anyone have interest in vintage diskette duplication / duplication
machines? Would this make for an interesting VCF exhibit?  Does/did anyone
use these commercially?
  Bill



Many moons ago I wrote software to run an 8" disk duplicator
for making copies of disks for the Terak.  Those were the days.
:-)

bill

[cctalk] Another blast from the past...

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

So, here I was binge watching a scifi series called "Night Sky",
which sadly was  not renewed, but I digress...

In one of the episodes two of the characters go to see a man who
apparently is a monitor for something having to do with the devices
that teleport people all over not only earth but other planets as well.
He has this workbench covered with computers that look like mostly
PC's but some could be Suns or other real computers.  And many displays
with really cool graphics.  And sitting in the middle of all of this
is ---  An IMSAI-8080.  :-)  Front panel is clearly visible in a
number of scenes.

Of course, with the program being canceled one has to wonder, did it
go back into a prop warehouse somewhere or just the nearest dumpster?
:-(

bill

[cctalk] Re: RD54 Maxtor XT-2190 w/one long meep

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

Back in the day when these disks were common I used to elicit
a good laugh from my boss when I got out my little mallet and
smacked the side of the drive. Stiction was the problem but a
good hammer fixes anything.  And, no, I never had it damage a
disk.  I guess it was all in the technique.  :-)

bill

[cctalk] VCF SoCal Saturday

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 2/9/2024 5:08 AM, Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote:

There's a good chance I'll make it to the upcoming VCF SoCal coming up on
Sat. the 17th.

Some things I'm looking for:
- recently an associate of mine gifted me their original 1978 TRS-80 (Model
1).  But not much in accessories.  I have a suitable tape deck, but other
accessories might be nice.  His father used this particular unit while he
worked in the Tandy Towers in downtown FW (that's all I know about it so
far).




Checkout the MISE and MIRE from Bartlett Labs
and the FreHD from Ian Mavric.


bill

[cctalk] Re: VCF SoCal

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 1/31/2024 8:30 PM, mark audacity romberg via cctalk wrote:

I suppose I should’ve specified “of the versions of BASIC I’ve ever heard 
anyone talk about still using this century.” :P


Basic09 is probably still in use on OS9000.

VAX BASIC is still in use on VMS ALPHA and Itanium and is about
to be released for the recent port of VMS to x86-64.  I personally
know of a number of rather large production systems in VMS BASIC.

RSTS/E is harder to say.  There are still a large number of PDP-11
sites running using both real hardware and commercial emulator
systems but which OSes they are using I can't say.  Could be all
RT-11 and RSX-11.  But then, BASIC-PLUS and BASIC-PLUS2 both run
on RSX-11 as well.  I just don't have much experience with RSX-11
as I never really liked it.

And  none of this takes into account hobbyists like me who use
all of them.


bill

[cctalk] Re: VCF SoCal

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 1/31/2024 1:14 PM, mark audacity romberg via cctalk wrote:

BBC BASIC is the best BASIC there ever was, and I feel sad for those who have 
never used it to see how powerful BASIC can be with proper structured 
programming. It’s honestly like a different language.



Basic09?  VAX BASIC?  RSTS/E BASIC-PLUS?

Microsoft was not the only BASIC provider in the US.

bill

[cctalk] Re: WWVB

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 1/15/2024 10:47 AM, Chris Elmquist via cctalk wrote:

On Sunday (01/14/2024 at 09:55PM -0600), Chris Elmquist via cctalk wrote:

There are a number of WWVB simulator projects out there that will transmit a 
weak but usable signal to your clock after getting sync’d from ntp or GPS NMEA 
time messages.  They were developed to help people develop receivers :-)   One 
in particular uses an AVR and it should be pretty simple to make it do the “old 
protocol”.  You’d then hide this behind your clock and it will sync to it 
instead of the actual WWVB signal.  Solves the protocol problem and the weak 
signal problem from real WWVB with one little circuit.

If Google does not provide, I can dig up some links tomorrow.


Hmm. Strange.  I did follow-up shortly after the above post with this
link,

https://www.instructables.com/WWVB-Simulator/

but I don't see that that made it to the list.

Chris



It did.  I got it.

bill

[cctalk] Re: WWVB

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

Will Cooke and Jonathon Chapman explained it.

A change to the protocol that old clocks don't know about.

bill

[cctalk] Re: WWVB

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 1/14/2024 2:54 PM, Jonathan Chapman via cctalk wrote:

Bill,

If it's an older clock it's probably tripping over a timecode transmission 
format/modulation change. I forget the exact details but changes were required 
to my old 8085-based Spectracom receiver.



Thanks, that's probably it.

I assume if I build one of the W8BH WWVB clocks that problem
either has been or can be fixed.

OH well, the clock I have was a gift to my father long ago when I
first got him into ham radio.  It still serves to remind me of how
much I miss him.

Thanks again.

bill
KB3YV

[cctalk] WWVB

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

This is kind computer related but maybe more ham radio related
but I figure if anywhere, here is the place to find an answer.

I have a SkyScan ATOMIC CLOCK.
It is supposed to get its time from WWVB.
The antenna icon that is supposed to mean it is receiving
WWVB is on.

Your probably wondering why I keep saying "supposed to".
The clock is always wrong.  Slow by about 2 minutes.

Is there a known problem with WWVB?

bill

[cctalk] RSTS/E questions.

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

I am back to playing with RSTS/E 10.1 again and have a couple questions
if there is still anyone around with experience.

First:  Is there a way to change the allowed length for passwords?

Second:  Is there a way to make login take the assigned name rather than
the x,x format for logins?  I seem to remember using a system once that
did but I have no idea if it was legit or a local hack.  Although I have
no problem using local hacks.  :-)

Need to get a system going and maybe even join HECNET.
I really wish there was TCP/IP for RSTS.

bill

[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/E front panels

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 11/17/2023 8:52 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote:

Hi Bob,
I can't help with your search for 8/e front panels, but you mentioned
"green switch boards". I have a nicely restored DEC LAB-8/e with green
switch toggles. Do you have spare green switch toggles? I would love to
have one dark green and one light green toggle. I don't need the actual
switch, but would be happy to take the toggles with switch. Please let me
know if you can help.



Have you ever considered making your own?

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:360853


bill

[cctalk] Tandy Model 6000 w/XENIX

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

Is there anywhere I could go where people who are playing with
this system hang out?  I used to have a couple of very early
Model 16's and ran Xenix on them.  I also worked with a couple
of 6000's in a real production environment.  Lately I got interested
again and found an emulator that does a real good job and a
bunch of rather interesting software for it.  Some that wasn't
around when I was doing this for a job.  In one case, the package
has a note that while it installs they couldn't get into it because
the first thing it did was ask for username and password.  Well, I
figured out how to get into it and maybe there are others interested.
It's nice to be able to see how real work was done back in the day.
I have always wished some of the production software for the PDP-11
had survived, but at least this is a start.

bill

[cctalk] Re: PDP11 and Ultrix 11

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 10/18/2023 10:00 AM, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote:

On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 at 09:56, hupfadekroua via cctalk 
wrote:


Hello all,

does someone have a SCSI disc image of Ultrix 11 for a QBus based (11/73)
PDP11.



Ultrix-11 doesn't support SCSI disks, as far as I am aware.  What hardware
are you trying to use?  In any case, you can easily use SIMH to install 3.1
(or your preferred version) and then transfer that to real hardware.


PDP-11 SCSI Modules emulate MSCP and RA disks and work fine with
Ultrix-11.

bill

[cctalk] Re: GEAC

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 9/29/2023 9:39 AM, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote:

I believe Bill is referring to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geac_Computer_Corporation

-Henry

On Fri, 29 Sept 2023 at 09:38, Bill Degnan via cctalk 
wrote:


Are you referring to GE/PAC RTMOS?


On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 9:34 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


Here's a question for all our Computer Museum curators.


Have any of the old GEAC Library systems ever been salvaged and put into

a museum?  They were curious boxes and I think would make a nice addition

to a collection.



Yes, we had one at the University of Scranton until it was replaced by  
a software


only solution running on VAX/VMS.


bill

[cctalk] GEAC

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

Here's a question for all our Computer Museum curators.


Have any of the old GEAC Library systems ever been salvaged and put into

a museum?  They were curious boxes and I think would make a nice addition

to a collection.


bill

[cctalk] Re: Vintage Computer Fest Midwest "DECnut" pizza party

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 9/8/2023 5:07 PM, Zane Healy wrote:



On Sep 8, 2023, at 6:20 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk  
wrote:


On 9/7/2023 9:20 PM, Gavin Scott via cctalk wrote:

On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 4:49 PM ste...@malikoff.com steven--- via
cctalk  wrote:

Here in Oz, VAX has been a popular brand of vacuum cleaner for many decades. We 
had one until recently.
https://www.vax.com.au/

http://catb.org/jargon/html/V/VAX.html


"Nothing sucks like a VAX!!"   :-)


bill



I rather like the old Trade Show button from WordPerfect that is sitting on top 
of the Keyboard I’m using to type this (an old Apple ADB Extended II Keyboard 
via USB converter), it says “Loyal to VAX”.

I normally have a physical VAX running 24x7.  It was shutdown recently, but 
only due to high temps, and it’s back online now.



I've been thinking of bringing up a VAX again.  I think I can fix my VXT 
and I think


I now have some hardware that will let me put a PC class LCD monitor on it.

VAXStations just aren't much fun without the graphics.


bill

[cctalk] Re: Vintage Computer Fest Midwest "DECnut" pizza party

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 9/8/2023 9:29 AM, Raymond Wiker via cctalk wrote:



On 8 Sep 2023, at 15:20, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk  
wrote:


On 9/7/2023 9:20 PM, Gavin Scott via cctalk wrote:

On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 4:49 PM ste...@malikoff.com steven--- via
cctalk  wrote:

Here in Oz, VAX has been a popular brand of vacuum cleaner for many decades. We 
had one until recently.
https://www.vax.com.au/

http://catb.org/jargon/html/V/VAX.html


"Nothing sucks like a VAX!!"   :-)

I remember seeing that slogan in the 80s, when I was a student in Glasgow.



When it first showed up it was all the rage on comp.os.vms.

And then I got the announcement signs on the side of the Central 
Scranton Expressway


here in PA announcing "Coming soon - VMS".

Of course, that turned out to be The "Virtual Messaging System" which I 
am sure


people see on their highways every day any more.


bill

[cctalk] Re: Vintage Computer Fest Midwest "DECnut" pizza party

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 9/7/2023 9:20 PM, Gavin Scott via cctalk wrote:

On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 4:49 PM ste...@malikoff.com steven--- via
cctalk  wrote:

Here in Oz, VAX has been a popular brand of vacuum cleaner for many decades. We 
had one until recently.
https://www.vax.com.au/

http://catb.org/jargon/html/V/VAX.html



"Nothing sucks like a VAX!!"   :-)


bill

[cctalk] Re: TI 960

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 9/4/2023 4:23 PM, James B DiGriz via cctalk wrote:

I can see some similarity of the 900 series CRU I/O to the Inmos
Transputer serial links, but I've never heard of them referred to as
Transputers. The 960 was called a "bit pusher", though.


Looked similar to me, too.  I was just curious if an interest in Transputers

had sprung up.  Maybe 20 years ago I had boxes of them and even the

ones that went into Sun-3's.  I couldn't even give them away. Don't remember

what happened to them at this point.  Might have thrown them in with stuff

I gave to a couple of fledgling museums.


bill

[cctalk] Re: TI 960

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 9/4/2023 11:27 AM, James B DiGriz via cctalk wrote:

I'm interested, the ATS-960 automated test system in particular. I
think that's what was with the Applicon I mentioned.

jbdigriz

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 14:22:53 +0200 (CEST)
Christian Corti via cctalk  wrote:


I won't give up my hopes, but it seems that this system is
practically extinct and that noone is really interested in it,
although it was the start for the later 980/990 and 9900 series.



Weren't the TI 900 series the things called Transputers?


bill

[cctalk] Re: Silly question about S-100 and video monitors

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 9/4/2023 3:31 AM, Raymond Wiker via cctalk wrote:



On 2 Sep 2023, at 15:07, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk  
wrote:


On 9/1/2023 11:45 AM, dwight via cctalk wrote:

My first computer was a Poly-88. I had no monitor and no keyboard.
I read and understood the instructions about finding a TV that used a 
transformer power supply. Many newer TV's of that day were not using a 
transformer for the main supply. I went to several secondhand stores and found 
one that would work.
The keyboard was from a surplus Singer data entry machine ( I thought they only 
made sewing machines ).


Believe it or not, at one time they even made Flight Simulators. Early 70's I 
wanted

to work at their Binghamton, NY facility but like IBM in Endicott I couldn't 
even get my

foot in the door.


bill



The Singer Link F-16 simulator used Norsk Data superminis (initially ND50, but 
later ND500). This is not really relevant to S-100 and video monitors, but I 
like to mention Norsk Data whenever the opportunity arises.



Our Singer Link facility was gone by the time the F-16 came around.  
Think F-4 and maybe even


F-104 when I was trying to get a job.  Not sure if they did helicopters, 
too but it would have been


UH-1, Cobra and Chinook.


bill

[cctalk] Re: Silly question about S-100 and video monitors

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 9/1/2023 11:45 AM, dwight via cctalk wrote:

My first computer was a Poly-88. I had no monitor and no keyboard.
I read and understood the instructions about finding a TV that used a 
transformer power supply. Many newer TV's of that day were not using a 
transformer for the main supply. I went to several secondhand stores and found 
one that would work.
The keyboard was from a surplus Singer data entry machine ( I thought they only 
made sewing machines ).



Believe it or not, at one time they even made Flight Simulators. Early 
70's I wanted


to work at their Binghamton, NY facility but like IBM in Endicott I 
couldn't even get my


foot in the door.


bill

[cctalk] Re: Good Inventory Program for keeping track of my DEC boards, parts, computers, etc?

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 8/17/2023 2:14 PM, John Herron via cctalk wrote:

I'm a little surprised noone mentioned Google sheets or something that's
cloud native? Probably only accessible from newer systems though but I've
debated it since it would be instantly accessible from phone also.


Why would you give all your data to Google?


bill

[cctalk] Re: Apple 1

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 8/5/2023 4:07 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:

On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 1:46 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


On 8/3/2023 3:45 AM, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:

I’d still prefer the IMSAI 8080 or SWTPC 6800 though.


While I have a couple Apple ]['s I really don't do much with them.  Haven't

even turned one on since I retired from the University in 2015 and they

came home .

Wouldn't take an Apple 1 as a gift but I, too, would love to have an IMSAI

and a SWTPC 6800.




But...because the apple I is so valuable people have been motivated to
produce really nice replica motherboards.  The replicas give many the
chance to experience the Apple I at a reasonable price, thanks indirectly
to those willing to pay for the real thing. Otherwise we'd probably never
get to use one.  It's fun to find original parts and sockets to try to get
a replica as close as possible to an original.  I guess it does not matter
how or why it happenend but the Apple I is the ultimate vintage computing
collectible.

Personally I use my IMSAI somewhat regularly, thats my favorite computer
from the mid 70s.



Nowadays my most used vintage computers are my TRS-80's.  Even more than 
my PDP-11's


and VAX.  But if I had an IMSAI I think it would be #1.


bill

[cctalk] Re: Apple 1

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 8/3/2023 3:45 AM, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:


I’d still prefer the IMSAI 8080 or SWTPC 6800 though.


While I have a couple Apple ]['s I really don't do much with them.  Haven't

even turned one on since I retired from the University in 2015 and they

came home .

Wouldn't take an Apple 1 as a gift but I, too, would love to have an IMSAI

and a SWTPC 6800.


bill

[cctalk] Re: Old Professional/350 software, any of this out there

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 8/4/2023 1:39 PM, Hans-Ulrich Hölscher via cctalk wrote:

Has anyone tested Chris' images with real RX50s and a real PDP-11?
If not, could please someone try the MicroRSTS V2.1 images?


Which version of RSTS is MicroRSTS V2.1 equivalent to?


bill

[cctalk] Re: SCO on Virtualbox

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 8/4/2023 2:46 PM, Kelly Leavitt via cctalk wrote:

From: emanuel stiebler via cctalk 
Sent: Friday, August 4, 2023 10:20 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Cc: jim stephens ; emanuel stiebler 
Subject: [cctalk] Re: SCO on Virtualbox


On 2023-08-03 20:29, jim stephens via cctalk wrote:


On 8/3/23 13:21, KenUnix via cctalk wrote:

My efforts have failed. My host is Ubuntu 22.04 with Virtualbox 7.0.10.

I'd be curious given the nature of SCO if anyone has posted the goods to
install any of them, and what versions.

Wasn't there a joke back than, that if somebody figure out, how to
install SCO on any machine, he was considered a "computer guru"?

Oh, for the love of god, it wasn't that difficult.

We were an SCO shop for a decade. Maybe more. It worked really well for us.

We had WordPerfect, Lotus and dBase.

You want difficult, try using Tandy Xenix with Scripsit, Multiplan and 
filePro16+



What was so difficult about that?  I did it the first time on a 
prototype machine


and then later on production machines.  We had secretaries using 
Scripsit and budget


analysts using Multiplan all the time.  I always preferred Multiplan to 
Visicalc.



bill

[cctalk] Re: VCF and System Source Computer Museum swap meet this weekend

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 7/19/2023 11:23 AM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote:

Hi,
I am curious if anyone here might be planning on attending.
https://museum.syssrc.com/artifact/events/3000/


I am heading up there with friends Friday night so we can get there 
early Saturday.


Bringing some stuff to sell, nothing too crazy just odds and ends. 
PICMG Pentium rackmount machine and odds and ends for micros.


Only system on my "to get" list is Acorn Archemedies.

Looking forward to it, and I think System Source might be the #1 
collection in the world. Very cool place.


Say hi if you see me and are on this list.


All this chatter has made me interested in maybe making the drive (a bit 
over 3 hours).


What time does it start on Saturday?  How would we know each other? :-)


bill