Re: death of coldfusion

[Jochem van Dieten]

Fregas wrote:

 I'm sure this has been discussed before on here but its appearance on 
 allaire forums has me disturbed.


Why?

Frankly, I would be much more disturbed if it was censored there.

Jochem
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RE: multiple attachment selection client side.....

[Sebastiaan Barlo]

Cameron and Ron,

Thanks for the replies. I was afraid of that. I was thinking about the
 hotmail
way, just put the locations of the uploaded files into a list and track this
list through a session variable or something. I think that is possible and
than loop through the list and make a cfparam for every location or
attachment.
Thanks for your views on this subject.

Greetings,

Sebastian.

*
At 17:12 29-12-2001 -0500, you wrote:
 I'm working on a webmail application and I want to give users the ability
 to attach multiple files to there messages. I know how to do the server
 part of this procedure but not the client side.
 I can't get this to work with input type=file cause this only
 supports
 one file at a time and I want my users to give the ability to attach
 multiple files. Any idea on how to accomplish this?

AFAIK, using a standard input type=file form, there is currently no
 way
to do this.  You may be able to find some browser plugins that will help
you, but I'd make that a last resort.  You can allow user to upload files
all zipped up into one file and use CFX_Zip to disassemble them, but that
assumes your users have working knowledge of WinZip, and if they are
uploading a zip, why not just attach it as one file...

The best way I have seen to handle this is to allow users to upload files
one at a time and just keep track of them on the server during their
session.  A good example of this is the way hotmail.com handles attachments
for email.  Hotmail takes you to a different screen for attachments and
allows you to upload files one at a time in a form on the left while
 keeping
track of them in a list on the right.  Get a Hotmail account and check it
out...

I suppose there are other workarounds (FTP the files etc...), but they
usually are such a pain in the butt that it defeats the purpose of your
simple to use webmail app.

-Cameron


Cameron Childress
elliptIQ Inc.
p.770.460.1035.232
f.770.460.0963
--
http://www.neighborware.com
America's Leading Community Network Software

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Stopping/Starting/Restarting services.

[Bill Davidson]

Anyone have an easy way to have CF stop/start/restart NT services?  I saw
one CFX tag in the Allaire tag gallery, but it isn't available for download.

Thanks.
-Bill

www.brainbox.tv

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Re: Stopping/Starting/Restarting services.

[Howie Hamlin]

We have a tag on our downloads page (cfx_servicecontrol).  It's freeware:

http://www.coolfusion.com/Downloads.cfm

HTH,

--
Howie Hamlin - inFusion Project Manager
On-Line Data Solutions, Inc. - www.CoolFusion.com  - 631-737-4668 x101
inFusion Mail Server (iMS) - The Intelligent Mail Server
 Vote for iMS as the CFDJ Reader's Choice Awards Most Innovative Product 
http://www.sys-con.com/coldfusion/readerschoice2001/nominationformbpa.cfm
 Find out how iMS Stacks up to the competition: 
http://www.coolfusion.com/imssecomparison.cfm

- Original Message -
From: Bill Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 11:54 AM
Subject: Stopping/Starting/Restarting services.


 Anyone have an easy way to have CF stop/start/restart NT services?  I saw
 one CFX tag in the Allaire tag gallery, but it isn't available for download.

 Thanks.
 -Bill

 www.brainbox.tv

 
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Re: death of coldfusion

[Fregas]

No I was disturbed by the amount of people saying they lost or couldn't find
coldfusion jobs because companies weren't using them.

My impression was that .NET was going to be free, just not the development
tools AKA visual studio.

-Craig

- Original Message -
From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: death of coldfusion


 Fregas wrote:

  I'm sure this has been discussed before on here but its appearance on
  allaire forums has me disturbed.


 Why?

 Frankly, I would be much more disturbed if it was censored there.

 Jochem
 
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Re: Stopping/Starting/Restarting services.

[David Schmidt]

create a batch file that uses the net stop and net start commands for each
cf service.


- Original Message -
From: Bill Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 8:54 AM
Subject: Stopping/Starting/Restarting services.


 Anyone have an easy way to have CF stop/start/restart NT services?  I saw
 one CFX tag in the Allaire tag gallery, but it isn't available for
download.

 Thanks.
 -Bill

 www.brainbox.tv

 
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Re: death of coldfusion

[Matt Brown]

ColdFusion is NOT dying in the least. It is doing quite well and now has 
the largest team assigned to it ever in the history of Macromedia.

Even more than the DW/UD teams combined.

CF is a superb solution and hits a slightly different segment of the market 
from ASP and JSP and PHP. Consequently it does very well in our market 
segments. We are 100% behind ColdFusion and in the future you are going to 
see some excellent things coming.
_

Matt Brown   Community Manager
Macromedia  (650) 481-4525   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Stopping/Starting/Restarting services.

[Bill Davidson]

I know about the net commands, but is there a way to call a .bat from CF?
Probably something small I've missed as I've never needed it before.

-Bill
www.brainbox.tv

- Original Message -
From: David Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: Stopping/Starting/Restarting services.


 create a batch file that uses the net stop and net start commands for each
 cf service.


 - Original Message -
 From: Bill Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 8:54 AM
 Subject: Stopping/Starting/Restarting services.


  Anyone have an easy way to have CF stop/start/restart NT services?  I
saw
  one CFX tag in the Allaire tag gallery, but it isn't available for
 download.
 
  Thanks.
  -Bill
 
  www.brainbox.tv
 
 
 
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Re: death of coldfusion

[Jochem van Dieten]

Matt Brown wrote:

 ColdFusion is NOT dying in the least. It is doing quite well and now has 
 the largest team assigned to it ever in the history of Macromedia.
 
 Even more than the DW/UD teams combined.
 
 CF is a superb solution and hits a slightly different segment of the market 
 from ASP and JSP and PHP. Consequently it does very well in our market 
 segments. We are 100% behind ColdFusion and in the future you are going to 
 see some excellent things coming.


It would be nice to see something like this posted in the thread on the 
forums where all this started.

Jochem
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Re: death of coldfusion

[Mark Smeets]

It's just the microsoft lovers trying to stir things up, this happens like
once every 6 months. Be reasonable and ask yourself would you really kill a
language that is growing this fast in popularity that is more effective than
the other languages out there? (thats my opinion, I think cf is much better
than asp or php)

Macromedia isn't incorporating CF into Dreamweaver for the past 2 version
for nothing.

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Re: Stopping/Starting/Restarting services.

[Chris Alvarado]

Yes as a matter of fact,

look up the cfexecute tag.

-chris.alvarado
[application developer]
4|Guys Interactive, Inc


From: Bill Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Stopping/Starting/Restarting services.
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 14:04:58 -0500

I know about the net commands, but is there a way to call a .bat from CF?
Probably something small I've missed as I've never needed it before.

-Bill
www.brainbox.tv

- Original Message -
From: David Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: Stopping/Starting/Restarting services.


  create a batch file that uses the net stop and net start commands for 
each
  cf service.
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Bill Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 8:54 AM
  Subject: Stopping/Starting/Restarting services.
 
 
   Anyone have an easy way to have CF stop/start/restart NT services?  I
saw
   one CFX tag in the Allaire tag gallery, but it isn't available for
  download.
  
   Thanks.
   -Bill
  
   www.brainbox.tv
  
  
 

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Link Exchange Code

[Double Down]

Does anyone know of a Tag or a program done in Cold Fusion that helps
set up an link exchange system.
 
Thanks
 
HB
 

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Re: death of coldfusion

[Jon Hall]

Wow.

Matt Brown wrote:

ColdFusion is NOT dying in the least. It is doing quite well and now has 
the largest team assigned to it ever in the history of Macromedia.

Even more than the DW/UD teams combined.


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Re: GoldMine

[Sean Daniels]

On 12/29/01 4:30 PM Mark A. Kruger - CFG wrote:

 yes it's possible.  You can use DBase drivers (not good) or you can upgra
 de
 goldmine to SQL and do it that way.  If you can figure out Goldmines rath
 er
 difficult Primary key schema you can make it happen.  There are a lot of
 folks doing it with various 3rd party aps and you can find ideas on how t
 o
 proceed on the goldmine forums.

Beautiful, that's what I wanted to hear. Thanks.

- Sean

~~
Sean Daniels
  Director, Engineering
  Marketplace Technologies, Inc
(T): 207.363.7374
(C): 207.332.6340
(F): 240.269.6319
~~
  http://www.dealforce.com
  http://www.mergernetwork.com


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RE: death of coldfusion

[Paris Lundis]

It would seem that Macromedia especially (along with some good people at
former Allaire) have leaned quite a bit towards Java... Especially with the
Jrun acquisition and similar peaked interests, a lot of non-Java programmers
explainably have got the willies :)

I am in Pittsburgh and Cold Fusion is still a new name/product to most... We
produce lots of Java programmers at our finer institution of knowledge.
Additionally, MicroSoft owns a good market share of installed base in this
region ala ASP...

I would like to see Macromedia address the efficiencies of the migration to
a more Java based core and the advantages... Doing this all the while,
indicating the next generations of Cold Fusion won't lose the rapid edge and
become an OOP mess :)

-paris


-Original Message-
From: Jon Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 15:08
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: death of coldfusion


Wow.

Matt Brown wrote:

ColdFusion is NOT dying in the least. It is doing quite well and now has
the largest team assigned to it ever in the history of Macromedia.

Even more than the DW/UD teams combined.



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JRun Connector Proxy request timed out

[Marius Milosav]

We get this message on one particular server, when we tried to display
pages with graphs.

The only difference that I can see between this server and others where
cfgraph works fine is the OS.
Windows 2000 (dosn't work) WindowsNT 4 works

Both with CF 5.0 Enterprise

Any help appreciated
Thanks
Marius Milosav
www.scorpiosoft.com
It's not about technology, it's about people.
Virtual Company (VICO) Application Demo
www.scorpiosoft.com/vicodemo/login.cfm



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RE: death of coldfusion

[Ben Forta]

Paris,

You'll be seeing and hearing lots of this as Neo is closer to shipping -
stay tuned.

Oh, and just to make it perfectly clear, in Neo you'll write CF as you do
now. You'll have other features and technologies available to you too, but
if you want to write CF as you do in CF5 (and earlier) you'll be able to.
The ease of use, the minimal learning curve, the rapid development - none of
that changes at all.

--- Ben


-Original Message-
From: Paris Lundis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 3:30 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: death of coldfusion


It would seem that Macromedia especially (along with some good people at
former Allaire) have leaned quite a bit towards Java... Especially with the
Jrun acquisition and similar peaked interests, a lot of non-Java programmers
explainably have got the willies :)

I am in Pittsburgh and Cold Fusion is still a new name/product to most... We
produce lots of Java programmers at our finer institution of knowledge.
Additionally, MicroSoft owns a good market share of installed base in this
region ala ASP...

I would like to see Macromedia address the efficiencies of the migration to
a more Java based core and the advantages... Doing this all the while,
indicating the next generations of Cold Fusion won't lose the rapid edge and
become an OOP mess :)

-paris


-Original Message-
From: Jon Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 15:08
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: death of coldfusion


Wow.

Matt Brown wrote:

ColdFusion is NOT dying in the least. It is doing quite well and now has
the largest team assigned to it ever in the history of Macromedia.

Even more than the DW/UD teams combined.




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Re: Stopping/Starting/Restarting services.

[Steven Dworman]

create a batch file like this...


net stop Cold Fusion RDS
net stop Cold Fusion Executive
net stop Cold Fusion Application Server

net start Cold Fusion Application Server
net start Cold Fusion Executive
net start Cold Fusion RDS

exit


- Original Message -
From: Bill Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 11:54 AM
Subject: Stopping/Starting/Restarting services.


 Anyone have an easy way to have CF stop/start/restart NT services?  I s
aw
 one CFX tag in the Allaire tag gallery, but it isn't available for
download.

 Thanks.
 -Bill

 www.brainbox.tv

 
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RE: death of coldfusion

[Ben Forta]

Mark,

They may be part of it. Or not. Either way it needs to be taken in context -
there are far more questions from absolute beginners looking for initial
help on the Forums then there are posting from doomsayers - that definitely
says that folks are not just still using CF, they are also first starting to
do so.

I also think that part of the frustration expressed on the Forums is
frustration at the current economic situation in general. Lots of people are
looking for work, and yes, there are more ASP pages and sites out there than
CFML pages and sites, and so by default there'll be more ASP work than CFML
work.

And while this is not a formal method of measuring interest in a product, I
do have my own gauges that I use - hits on my site, numbers of readers and
sites accessing my CF tips, book sales, etc. And none of those show that CF
is dying - on the contrary.

--- Ben


-Original Message-
From: Mark Smeets [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 2:15 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: death of coldfusion


It's just the microsoft lovers trying to stir things up, this happens like
once every 6 months. Be reasonable and ask yourself would you really kill a
language that is growing this fast in popularity that is more effective than
the other languages out there? (thats my opinion, I think cf is much better
than asp or php)

Macromedia isn't incorporating CF into Dreamweaver for the past 2 version
for nothing.

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Re: death of coldfusion

[Douglas Brown]

Agreed. I believe that with the merger of Allaire and Macromedia, that CF
will become alot more mainstream than what it currently is. Macromedia ha
s a
huge markershare of products for web development and more  people are goi
ng
to be introduced to it through Macromedia than what it would have been
through Allaire. The economy sucks for everyone right now and it is a har
d
fought deal to just find employment. I do believe that the cost of CF Ser
ver
should be reduced though. If they reduce the cost of CF server and bundle
 in
studio for lets say $1500.00 then I think more people would be apt to pay
for it, and they would also make far more money. What makes more sense, m
ake
$4500 from 1000 people or make $1500 from 10,000 people?





Doug



- Original Message -
From: Ben Forta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 12:59 PM
Subject: RE: death of coldfusion


 Mark,

 They may be part of it. Or not. Either way it needs to be taken in
context -
 there are far more questions from absolute beginners looking for initia
l
 help on the Forums then there are posting from doomsayers - that
definitely
 says that folks are not just still using CF, they are also first starti
ng
to
 do so.

 I also think that part of the frustration expressed on the Forums is
 frustration at the current economic situation in general. Lots of peopl
e
are
 looking for work, and yes, there are more ASP pages and sites out there
than
 CFML pages and sites, and so by default there'll be more ASP work than
CFML
 work.

 And while this is not a formal method of measuring interest in a produc
t,
I
 do have my own gauges that I use - hits on my site, numbers of readers 
and
 sites accessing my CF tips, book sales, etc. And none of those show tha
t
CF
 is dying - on the contrary.

 --- Ben


 -Original Message-
 From: Mark Smeets [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 2:15 PM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: Re: death of coldfusion


 It's just the microsoft lovers trying to stir things up, this happens l
ike
 once every 6 months. Be reasonable and ask yourself would you really ki
ll
a
 language that is growing this fast in popularity that is more effective
than
 the other languages out there? (thats my opinion, I think cf is much
better
 than asp or php)

 Macromedia isn't incorporating CF into Dreamweaver for the past 2 versi
on
 for nothing.

 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq
 Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/
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Re: death of coldfusion

[Jochem van Dieten]

Ben Forta wrote:

 
 I also think that part of the frustration expressed on the Forums is
 frustration at the current economic situation in general.


And frustration with Macromedia in partcular :)

Why is there no information on Neo? Sure there was something presented 
at the DevCon, but creating a Neo resource center with mailinglist and 
not presenting any news easily raises the impression that nothing is 
happening. It could be announced on the mailinglist that some alpha 
release was shipped to selected partners (if you read very carefully 
through all the 200+ messages you will find some indications of this on 
the forums), but instead there is silence.

Imagine you are visiting your college buddies during the holiday season. 
They all have nice stories about .NET and J2EE, and all we have is some 
quotes about a product that some have seen but nobody has touched. 
Nobody likes to have to listen to the success stories of others.

Jochem


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Re: death of coldfusion

[Howie Hamlin]

Neo information is here:

http://www.macromedia.com/software/coldfusion/resources/neo/

Regards,

Howie

- Original Message -
From: Jochem van Dieten [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: death of coldfusion


 Ben Forta wrote:

 
  I also think that part of the frustration expressed on the Forums is
  frustration at the current economic situation in general.


 And frustration with Macromedia in partcular :)

 Why is there no information on Neo? Sure there was something presented
 at the DevCon, but creating a Neo resource center with mailinglist and
 not presenting any news easily raises the impression that nothing is
 happening. It could be announced on the mailinglist that some alpha
 release was shipped to selected partners (if you read very carefully
 through all the 200+ messages you will find some indications of this on
 the forums), but instead there is silence.

 Imagine you are visiting your college buddies during the holiday season.
 They all have nice stories about .NET and J2EE, and all we have is some
 quotes about a product that some have seen but nobody has touched.
 Nobody likes to have to listen to the success stories of others.

 Jochem


 
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RE: death of coldfusion

[Len Conrad]

Oh, and just to make it perfectly clear, in Neo you'll write CF as you do
now. You'll have other features and technologies available to you too, but
if you want to write CF as you do in CF5 (and earlier) you'll be able to.
The ease of use, the minimal learning curve, the rapid development - none of
that changes at all.

ah, if it were just a technology thing.

ah, if it were just being first with the best :))

MS never wins on pure technology. MS is never first.

Any non-MS commercial product on a strategic platform like IIS opposite MS 
strategic products that are free, are at serious risk of being 
Macintosh-ed, later if not sooner.

At a minimum, throwing a screenplay on the table about Neo going against 
MS on MS IIS and opposite MS .net and MS c# and all MS middleware and MS's 
$30B in cash and supposing MS's good will and laissez-faire is not going 
to get tons of VC now or in the future.  :))

but CF/Neo development could still be a comfortable little niche, just like 
the Macintosh segment.

Len


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Re: death of coldfusion

[Jochem van Dieten]

Howie Hamlin wrote:

 Neo information is here:
 
 http://www.macromedia.com/software/coldfusion/resources/neo/


And what is there that wasn't there a month ago? Or two months?

Jochem
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RE: death of coldfusion

[Ken Wilson]

 If they reduce the cost of CF server and bundle in
 studio for lets say $1500.00


A quick check over at CDW shows:

Macromedia ColdFusion Server 5 Professional = $1,157.67
Macromedia ColdFusion Studio 5 = $439.38

Total Package Price = $1,597.05



What makes more sense, make $4500 from 1000 people
or make $1500 from 10,000 people?


How many of those 10,000 people actually *need* the $4500 Enterprise
version?

Ken

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Re: death of coldfusion

[Douglas Brown]

Well I was speaking of enterprise, which is what I use.
You would obviously adjust the price accordingly dependant upon which
version was being sold.



Doug


- Original Message -
From: Ken Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 3:07 PM
Subject: RE: death of coldfusion


  If they reduce the cost of CF server and bundle in
  studio for lets say $1500.00


 A quick check over at CDW shows:

 Macromedia ColdFusion Server 5 Professional = $1,157.67
 Macromedia ColdFusion Studio 5 = $439.38

 Total Package Price = $1,597.05



 What makes more sense, make $4500 from 1000 people
 or make $1500 from 10,000 people?


 How many of those 10,000 people actually *need* the $4500 Enterprise
 version?

 Ken

 
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Re: death of coldfusion

[Douglas Brown]

 How many of those 10,000 people actually *need* the $4500 Enterprise
 version?


Well how many would purchase it whether they needed it or not if it was 1
500
for ent version + studio??

- Original Message -
From: Douglas Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: death of coldfusion


 Well I was speaking of enterprise, which is what I use.
 You would obviously adjust the price accordingly dependant upon which
 version was being sold.



 Doug


 - Original Message -
 From: Ken Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 3:07 PM
 Subject: RE: death of coldfusion


   If they reduce the cost of CF server and bundle in
   studio for lets say $1500.00
 
 
  A quick check over at CDW shows:
 
  Macromedia ColdFusion Server 5 Professional = $1,157.67
  Macromedia ColdFusion Studio 5 = $439.38
 
  Total Package Price = $1,597.05
 
 
 
  What makes more sense, make $4500 from 1000 people
  or make $1500 from 10,000 people?
 
 
  How many of those 10,000 people actually *need* the $4500 Enterprise
  version?
 
  Ken
 
 
 
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RE: death of coldfusion

[Paris Lundis]

price is just one portion of the argument.

It is hard to say where a companies needs fit... I find often that a company
might require a feature of the Professional or Enterprise type versions, but
not need to utilize the rest.

I suppose one thing Macromedia might do is better situate the offerings so
people might be able to get some of the functionality if they want it later
or pay as they go for the advanced features...

Keeping the lowest offering beneath 2k is mandatory and I think that is
where the price point still remains... 2k is nothing to a business who
indeed is considering a business centric site and infrastructure and staff
costs.

Macromedia might also consider sponsoring/partnering with some of the
specialized training and employment sites to further their presence and
market share.

Additionally, developers should be able to buy a developers edition of the
servers that cover the different platforms, versions and addons... much like
the MSDN set... Makes things easier for the developers and means you get
loyalty and some income you wouldn't otherwise. Also, get people compliant
and license wise more interested and likely to be compliant..

Perhaps Macromedia might consider offering a free version of the last major
release... so now 4.0 could be free or at least deeply discounted...
creates new sales for dead products as well...

Just wish the marketing was as innovative as the CF product..


-paris lundis

-Original Message-
From: Douglas Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 16:35
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: death of coldfusion


Agreed. I believe that with the merger of Allaire and Macromedia, that CF
will become alot more mainstream than what it currently is. Macromedia ha
s a
huge markershare of products for web development and more  people are goi
ng
to be introduced to it through Macromedia than what it would have been
through Allaire. The economy sucks for everyone right now and it is a har
d
fought deal to just find employment. I do believe that the cost of CF Ser
ver
should be reduced though. If they reduce the cost of CF server and bundle
 in
studio for lets say $1500.00 then I think more people would be apt to pay
for it, and they would also make far more money. What makes more sense, m
ake
$4500 from 1000 people or make $1500 from 10,000 people?





Doug



- Original Message -
From: Ben Forta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 12:59 PM
Subject: RE: death of coldfusion


 Mark,

 They may be part of it. Or not. Either way it needs to be taken in
context -
 there are far more questions from absolute beginners looking for initia
l
 help on the Forums then there are posting from doomsayers - that
definitely
 says that folks are not just still using CF, they are also first starti
ng
to
 do so.

 I also think that part of the frustration expressed on the Forums is
 frustration at the current economic situation in general. Lots of peopl
e
are
 looking for work, and yes, there are more ASP pages and sites out there
than
 CFML pages and sites, and so by default there'll be more ASP work than
CFML
 work.

 And while this is not a formal method of measuring interest in a produc
t,
I
 do have my own gauges that I use - hits on my site, numbers of readers
and
 sites accessing my CF tips, book sales, etc. And none of those show tha
t
CF
 is dying - on the contrary.

 --- Ben


 -Original Message-
 From: Mark Smeets [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 2:15 PM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: Re: death of coldfusion


 It's just the microsoft lovers trying to stir things up, this happens l
ike
 once every 6 months. Be reasonable and ask yourself would you really ki
ll
a
 language that is growing this fast in popularity that is more effective
than
 the other languages out there? (thats my opinion, I think cf is much
better
 than asp or php)

 Macromedia isn't incorporating CF into Dreamweaver for the past 2 versi
on
 for nothing.

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RE: death of coldfusion

[Bud]

On 12/30/01, Ben Forta penned:
Oh, and just to make it perfectly clear, in Neo you'll write CF as you do
now. You'll have other features and technologies available to you too, but
if you want to write CF as you do in CF5 (and earlier) you'll be able to.
The ease of use, the minimal learning curve, the rapid development - none of
that changes at all.

Thanks Ben. Do you have a clue if CF 6 will handle programs written 
for 4.5 and 5? I had to change so much code when they added the scope 
variable to cflock from the move from 4.0 to 4.5 that it just wasn't 
funny. I don't want to go through THAT again.
-- 

Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
ColdFusion Solutions / eCommerce Development
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.twcreations.com/
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RE: Long Live Cold Fusion and...

[Andrew Scott]

Thomas, CF already has a 30 day trial!!


-Original Message-
From: Thomas Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Monday, 31 December 2001 9:12 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Long Live Cold Fusion and...

Long live Cold Fusion.

One thing that I think Macromedia should do is to make a version for
 learning
that is either given away or sold for $99.  This should be a version
that 
will have
restrictions on the ability to do create web applications that could be
used
on the internet.  Such a program would only be usable for learning.  It 
would not
have a time limitation and would offer all of the tags and etc..  The 
program would
have use limitations so that people won't use it to produce real world 
internet pages
and applications.  Restricted capabilities is not the way to go if they 
block the
ability to learn.  It should be possible to restrict the use of the 
developed programs to
just the computer that the learning edition is installed on and by using

the training
program.

The more people who can afford to get a learning copy of the program and
a
 
good book
such as WACK by Ben Forta would mean more sales later on.



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Re: JRun Connector Proxy request timed out

[Marius Milosav]

The problem was fixed by re installing CF

Pretty strange. It's working now so it's OK

Marius Milosav
www.scorpiosoft.com
It's not about technology, it's about people.
Virtual Company (VICO) Application Demo
www.scorpiosoft.com/vicodemo/login.cfm

- Original Message -
From: Marius Milosav [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 3:43 PM
Subject: JRun Connector Proxy request timed out


 We get this message on one particular server, when we tried to display
 pages with graphs.

 The only difference that I can see between this server and others where
 cfgraph works fine is the OS.
 Windows 2000 (dosn't work) WindowsNT 4 works

 Both with CF 5.0 Enterprise

 Any help appreciated
 Thanks
 Marius Milosav
 www.scorpiosoft.com
 It's not about technology, it's about people.
 Virtual Company (VICO) Application Demo
 www.scorpiosoft.com/vicodemo/login.cfm



 
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RE: JRun Connector Proxy request timed out

[Robert Everland]

Make sure that you pass a query with more than 0 records or CFgraph eats ALL
of your memory. When i say all I mean all. Every single megabyte. Virtual
and all.


Bob Everland 

-Original Message-
From: Marius Milosav
To: CF-Talk
Sent: 12/30/01 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: JRun Connector Proxy request timed out

The problem was fixed by re installing CF

Pretty strange. It's working now so it's OK

Marius Milosav
www.scorpiosoft.com
It's not about technology, it's about people.
Virtual Company (VICO) Application Demo
www.scorpiosoft.com/vicodemo/login.cfm

- Original Message -
From: Marius Milosav [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 3:43 PM
Subject: JRun Connector Proxy request timed out


 We get this message on one particular server, when we tried to display
 pages with graphs.

 The only difference that I can see between this server and others
where
 cfgraph works fine is the OS.
 Windows 2000 (dosn't work) WindowsNT 4 works

 Both with CF 5.0 Enterprise

 Any help appreciated
 Thanks
 Marius Milosav
 www.scorpiosoft.com
 It's not about technology, it's about people.
 Virtual Company (VICO) Application Demo
 www.scorpiosoft.com/vicodemo/login.cfm



 

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RE: Long Live Cold Fusion and...

[Peter Tilbrook]

There's also a Developer Edition, ie: a fully functioning version of
ColdFusion 5 Enterprise with a strict single IP address access. I can't find
where to download it though.

ColdFusion Express is also still available at:


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RE: Long Live Cold Fusion and...

[clint]

30 days is not enough to truly learn something. 

I can install PHP,ASP,or JSP for free and truly learn them.

I can install the trial and only get to use it for 30days and most likely m
ost people would not get to use it for all 30 days.

 Don't get me wrong, I love CF and that is what I use the most but because 
it is not free it will always be harder to justify using it. The cost of CF
 is what is keeping the company I work for from upgrading.

that is my 2cents.

Clint


-- Original Message --
from: Andrew Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 11:34:57 +1100

Thomas, CF already has a 30 day trial!!


-Original Message-
From: Thomas Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Monday, 31 December 2001 9:12 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Long Live Cold Fusion and...

Long live Cold Fusion.

One thing that I think Macromedia should do is to make a version for
 learning
that is either given away or sold for $99.  This should be a version
that 
will have
restrictions on the ability to do create web applications that could be
used
on the internet.  Such a program would only be usable for learning.  It 
would not
have a time limitation and would offer all of the tags and etc..  The 
program would
have use limitations so that people won't use it to produce real world 
internet pages
and applications.  Restricted capabilities is not the way to go if they 
block the
ability to learn.  It should be possible to restrict the use of the 
developed programs to
just the computer that the learning edition is installed on and by using

the training
program.

The more people who can afford to get a learning copy of the program and
a
 
good book
such as WACK by Ben Forta would mean more sales later on.




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RE: Long Live Cold Fusion and...

[clint]

With CF 5, you have to have CF Studio installed to 'legally' use the dev ve
rsion. This sucks because you have to buy a $500 dollar editor to get it.

Also, CF Express is a joke. You can learn the very basics of CF but that is
 it. 

CT

-- Original Message --
from: Peter Tilbrook [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 12:04:46 +1100

There's also a Developer Edition, ie: a fully functioning version of
ColdFusion 5 Enterprise with a strict single IP address access. I can't fin
d
where to download it though.

ColdFusion Express is also still available at:



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Any ideas on how to do this please?

[Mike Kear]

I am embarking on a sub-project to allow suitably authorised users to input
events to my web site, to be displayed a month before the event happens, and
automatically deleted after the event is over.  I want the users to be able
to put in an event as being held on a specific date,  weekly, every two
weeks, every month, on the third Friday of the month etc.


How would I handle these options?  I know about how to do the specific date
one, but for say the monthly events, do you think I should take their input
and process it to enter 12 event records for the year, or do that processing
at the time of displaying the event?



How would I process the second Wednesday of the month into a specific
date?



Since this is a pro bono site for a small hobby club,  I'm not able to buy a
calendar app, but is there a freeware tag that can handle this kind of
thing?



Cheers,
Mike Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
AFP WebWorks

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RE: Any ideas on how to do this please?

[Andrew Scott]

Mike I am not sure I understand it, but wouldn't it be easier to store
the creation date, then the type of event (weekly, monthly etc) then do
a routine check on the DB to see if the date has passed and not pull it
out.

CF has many date functions that will allow the ability to get the day of
the week or even the week number etc. So for instance if the event is to
be held on a Wednesday then store this and do a check for this week day
number!

I would need to know more about the project, but from the information
provided this is what I would do.




-Original Message-
From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Monday, 31 December 2001 12:31 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Any ideas on how to do this please?

I am embarking on a sub-project to allow suitably authorised users to
input
events to my web site, to be displayed a month before the event happens,
and
automatically deleted after the event is over.  I want the users to be
able
to put in an event as being held on a specific date,  weekly, every two
weeks, every month, on the third Friday of the month etc.


How would I handle these options?  I know about how to do the specific
date
one, but for say the monthly events, do you think I should take their
input
and process it to enter 12 event records for the year, or do that
processing
at the time of displaying the event?



How would I process the second Wednesday of the month into a specific
date?



Since this is a pro bono site for a small hobby club,  I'm not able to
buy a
calendar app, but is there a freeware tag that can handle this kind of
thing?



Cheers,
Mike Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
AFP WebWorks

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RE: More regexp madness

[Kevin Raleigh]

Following your thread More regexp madness...

I wasn't able to ascertain why the attributes notation was needed.
Could you enlighten?

cfset ugly = '!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0
Transitional//EN'
cfset attributes.bodytext='!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML
4.0
Transitional//EN helllo hello'
cfset attributes.bodytext = replace(attributes.bodytext,
ugly,,ALL)

any insight would be appreciated

Thank You
Kevin


Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 09:17:44 -0700
From: Andre Turrettini [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: More regexp madness
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Hi Kay,
this worked ok for me.  Pretty much right off your post.
DRE

cfset ugly = '!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0
Transitional//EN'
cfset attributes.bodytext='!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML
4.0
Transitional//EN helllo hello'
cfset attributes.bodytext = replace(attributes.bodytext,
ugly,,ALL)

form
textarea cols=50
rows=6CFOUTPUT#attributes.bodytext#/CFOUTPUT/textarea
/form

-Original Message-
From: Kay Smoljak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 9:13 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: More regexp madness


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RE: death of coldfusion

[Ben Forta]

Jochem,

Yes, it is true that Macromedia tends to be more cautious with details of
future products than the old Allaire was. But in all fairness, there is
information out there, and as soon as Neo is in beta they'll be a lot more.
Between the DevCon presentation (which is online in its entirety), the White
Paper, the FAQ, there is stuff there. And partners are being briefed - it's
getting there. You'll here lots more in the new year.

--- Ben



-Original Message-
From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 4:29 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: death of coldfusion


Ben Forta wrote:


 I also think that part of the frustration expressed on the Forums is
 frustration at the current economic situation in general.


And frustration with Macromedia in partcular :)

Why is there no information on Neo? Sure there was something presented
at the DevCon, but creating a Neo resource center with mailinglist and
not presenting any news easily raises the impression that nothing is
happening. It could be announced on the mailinglist that some alpha
release was shipped to selected partners (if you read very carefully
through all the 200+ messages you will find some indications of this on
the forums), but instead there is silence.

Imagine you are visiting your college buddies during the holiday season.
They all have nice stories about .NET and J2EE, and all we have is some
quotes about a product that some have seen but nobody has touched.
Nobody likes to have to listen to the success stories of others.

Jochem



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Re: Any ideas on how to do this please?

[Kym Kovan]

Hi Mike,

I am embarking on a sub-project to allow suitably authorised users to input
events to my web site, to be displayed a month before the event happens, and
automatically deleted after the event is over.  I want the users to be able
to put in an event as being held on a specific date,  weekly, every two
weeks, every month, on the third Friday of the month etc.

I am a bit like Andrew, I would like to know more about the thing in terms 
of size, business of the servers, etc. You can do more work in CF and put a 
set of events in the DB but it will be bigger as a result but the queries a 
lot simpler compared with calculating it on the fly every time.

BTW if you are showing the event for a month before, then clearing it, how 
are you going to handle a weekly event :^)


--

Yours,

Kym
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RE: Long Live Cold Fusion and...

[Ben Forta]

We discuss this all the time, and I will forward this thread as needed. We
started down this road a bit with CF Express (yes, I know what its
limitations were, etc.).

No, I am not making any commitments at all, but you should at least know
that this is being debated and discussed heavily.

--- Ben



-Original Message-
From: Thomas Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 5:12 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Long Live Cold Fusion and...


Long live Cold Fusion.

One thing that I think Macromedia should do is to make a version for
 learning
that is either given away or sold for $99.  This should be a version that
will have
restrictions on the ability to do create web applications that could be used
on the internet.  Such a program would only be usable for learning.  It
would not
have a time limitation and would offer all of the tags and etc..  The
program would
have use limitations so that people won't use it to produce real world
internet pages
and applications.  Restricted capabilities is not the way to go if they
block the
ability to learn.  It should be possible to restrict the use of the
developed programs to
just the computer that the learning edition is installed on and by using
the training
program.

The more people who can afford to get a learning copy of the program and a

good book
such as WACK by Ben Forta would mean more sales later on.


At 12/30/2001, you wrote:
Agreed. I believe that with the merger of Allaire and Macromedia, that CF
will become alot more mainstream than what it currently is. Macromedia ha
s a
huge markershare of products for web development and more  people are goi
ng
to be introduced to it through Macromedia than what it would have been
through Allaire. The economy sucks for everyone right now and it is a har
d
fought deal to just find employment. I do believe that the cost of CF Ser
ver
should be reduced though. If they reduce the cost of CF server and bundle
  in
studio for lets say $1500.00 then I think more people would be apt to pay
for it, and they would also make far more money. What makes more sense, m
ake
$4500 from 1000 people or make $1500 from 10,000 people?





Doug



- Original Message -
From: Ben Forta [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 12:59 PM
Subject: RE: death of coldfusion


  Mark,
 
  They may be part of it. Or not. Either way it needs to be taken in
context -
  there are far more questions from absolute beginners looking for initia
l
  help on the Forums then there are posting from doomsayers - that
definitely
  says that folks are not just still using CF, they are also first starti
ng
to
  do so.
 
  I also think that part of the frustration expressed on the Forums is
  frustration at the current economic situation in general. Lots of peopl
e
are
  looking for work, and yes, there are more ASP pages and sites out there
than
  CFML pages and sites, and so by default there'll be more ASP work than
CFML
  work.
 
  And while this is not a formal method of measuring interest in a produc
t,
I
  do have my own gauges that I use - hits on my site, numbers of readers
and
  sites accessing my CF tips, book sales, etc. And none of those show tha
t
CF
  is dying - on the contrary.
 
  --- Ben
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Mark Smeets [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 2:15 PM
  To: CF-Talk
  Subject: Re: death of coldfusion
 
 
  It's just the microsoft lovers trying to stir things up, this happens l
ike
  once every 6 months. Be reasonable and ask yourself would you really ki
ll
a
  language that is growing this fast in popularity that is more effective
than
  the other languages out there? (thats my opinion, I think cf is much
better
  than asp or php)
 
  Macromedia isn't incorporating CF into Dreamweaver for the past 2 versi
on
  for nothing.
 
  FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq
  Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/
  Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
 
 


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RE: death of coldfusion

[Ben Forta]

Bud, we're promising compatibility, and things look good now. We do know
that they'll likely be some gotchas, and if this happens we'll provide a
utility that will analyze your code and point out any trouble spots before
you upgrade.

We're not kidding ourselves, we know that compatibility is an absolute must,
and we know it is a big undertaking, which is why (as Matt mentioned) we
have such a large team working on Neo.

And so far so good.

--- Ben



-Original Message-
From: Bud [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 7:24 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: death of coldfusion


On 12/30/01, Ben Forta penned:
Oh, and just to make it perfectly clear, in Neo you'll write CF as you do
now. You'll have other features and technologies available to you too, but
if you want to write CF as you do in CF5 (and earlier) you'll be able to.
The ease of use, the minimal learning curve, the rapid development - none
of
that changes at all.

Thanks Ben. Do you have a clue if CF 6 will handle programs written
for 4.5 and 5? I had to change so much code when they added the scope
variable to cflock from the move from 4.0 to 4.5 that it just wasn't
funny. I don't want to go through THAT again.
--

Bud Schneehagen - Tropical Web Creations

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
ColdFusion Solutions / eCommerce Development
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.twcreations.com/

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Re: Long Live Cold Fusion and...

[Jon Hall]

Perhaps a full version limited to 1 or 2 concurrent connections and 
including it with all of the Macromedia discs would be nice too. Just 
like Macromedia does now with all of their other offerings. If you buy 
the Flash 5 CD, you get all of the demo's for DW, Fireworks and so on.
On the Neo pages there is some mention of including Spectra, which I 
think will be a big driver of new CF installs. Just as a lot of PHP 
installs are driven my PHPNuke. It's a lot easier to justify $1500 or 
whatever the price is, for a complete product like Spectra and get 
ColdFusion as a bonus. Especially when Spectra has the Macromedia 
marketing behind it...

I think if you can walk the average Dreamweaver user through setup and 
install of CF/Spectra in 30 minutes which they then could show off to 
their bosses, then the sky is the limit.

jon
Ben Forta wrote:

We discuss this all the time, and I will forward this thread as needed. We
started down this road a bit with CF Express (yes, I know what its
limitations were, etc.).

No, I am not making any commitments at all, but you should at least know
that this is being debated and discussed heavily.

--- Ben



-Original Message-
From: Thomas Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 5:12 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Long Live Cold Fusion and...


Long live Cold Fusion.

One thing that I think Macromedia should do is to make a version for
 learning
that is either given away or sold for $99.  This should be a version that
will have
restrictions on the ability to do create web applications that could be used
on the internet.  Such a program would only be usable for learning.  It
would not
have a time limitation and would offer all of the tags and etc..  The
program would
have use limitations so that people won't use it to produce real world
internet pages
and applications.  Restricted capabilities is not the way to go if they
block the
ability to learn.  It should be possible to restrict the use of the
developed programs to
just the computer that the learning edition is installed on and by using
the training
program.

The more people who can afford to get a learning copy of the program and a

good book
such as WACK by Ben Forta would mean more sales later on.


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Re: More regexp madness

[Kay Smoljak]

Aha, that's because I'm using the Fusebox methodology...
http://www.fusebox.org. Attributes scope is used a lot, so that you can
call applications as custom tags in other applications.

Kevin Raleigh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:002d01c1919d$1c87f650$59d6fea9@krr...
 Following your thread More regexp madness...
 
 I wasn't able to ascertain why the attributes notation was needed. 
 Could you enlighten?
 
 cfset ugly = '!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 
 Transitional//EN' cfset attributes.bodytext='!DOCTYPE HTML 
 PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0
 Transitional//EN helllo hello'
 cfset attributes.bodytext = replace(attributes.bodytext,
 ugly,,ALL)
 
 any insight would be appreciated
 
 Thank You
 Kevin
 
 
 Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 09:17:44 -0700
 From: Andre Turrettini [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: More regexp madness
 Message-ID: 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Hi Kay,
 this worked ok for me.  Pretty much right off your post.
 DRE
 
 cfset ugly = '!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 
 Transitional//EN' cfset attributes.bodytext='!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC

 -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0
 Transitional//EN helllo hello'
 cfset attributes.bodytext = replace(attributes.bodytext,
 ugly,,ALL)
 
 form
 textarea cols=50 
 rows=6CFOUTPUT#attributes.bodytext#/CFOUTPUT/textarea
 /form
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Kay Smoljak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 9:13 AM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: More regexp madness
 
 
 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq
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RE: death of coldfusion

[jon]

Out of curiousity, what's the rush for NEO?

Does everything always have to be NEW AND IMPROVED?

(see Perl, for instance, which seems to evolve very slowly)
-- jon

-Original Message-
From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 4:29 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: death of coldfusion


Ben Forta wrote:


 I also think that part of the frustration expressed on the Forums is
 frustration at the current economic situation in general.


And frustration with Macromedia in partcular :)

Why is there no information on Neo? Sure there was something presented
at the DevCon, but creating a Neo resource center with mailinglist and
not presenting any news easily raises the impression that nothing is
happening. It could be announced on the mailinglist that some alpha
release was shipped to selected partners (if you read very carefully
through all the 200+ messages you will find some indications of this on
the forums), but instead there is silence.

Imagine you are visiting your college buddies during the holiday season.
They all have nice stories about .NET and J2EE, and all we have is some
quotes about a product that some have seen but nobody has touched.
Nobody likes to have to listen to the success stories of others.

Jochem



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RE: Long Live Cold Fusion and...

[jon]

Doesn't CF become a single user version after 30 days if you don't license
it?

Not a bad way to teach oneself the fine art of cold fusion programming.

-- jon

-
jon roig
epilepsyfoundation.org


-Original Message-
From: Andrew Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 7:35 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Long Live Cold Fusion and...


Thomas, CF already has a 30 day trial!!


-Original Message-
From: Thomas Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, 31 December 2001 9:12 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Long Live Cold Fusion and...

Long live Cold Fusion.

One thing that I think Macromedia should do is to make a version for
 learning
that is either given away or sold for $99.  This should be a version
that
will have
restrictions on the ability to do create web applications that could be
used
on the internet.  Such a program would only be usable for learning.  It
would not
have a time limitation and would offer all of the tags and etc..  The
program would
have use limitations so that people won't use it to produce real world
internet pages
and applications.  Restricted capabilities is not the way to go if they
block the
ability to learn.  It should be possible to restrict the use of the
developed programs to
just the computer that the learning edition is installed on and by using

the training
program.

The more people who can afford to get a learning copy of the program and
a

good book
such as WACK by Ben Forta would mean more sales later on.




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Re: death of coldfusion

[Jim McAtee]

I don't want to downplay the significance of code portability, but I think
that 95% of the _current_ customer base could probably care less.  For most
folks running CF on a Windows platform, if you tell them they can now take
their code and run it on the platform of their choice, they're going to say
Well, that's nice and not much more.

I certainly understand the advantages, but it's mostly to very large sites,
contractors, commercial software developers, and Macromedia itself.  It
sounds like a good move for Macromedia and for CF, but what remains to be
seen is whether Neo will offer any real advantages to the average developer
doing Windows or Linux CF web sites or intranets.

Jim


- Original Message -
From: Michael Dinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: death of coldfusion


 I've dedicated the last 6.5 years of my life to CF and I'm not leaving an
 y
 time soon. Do I think CF is dead? No. Do I see it with a bright future? Y
 es.
 Have I listened to what has been said and shown about Neo? Yes and so sho
 uld
 you. The very fact that you'll be able to write cheap and fast CF code an
 d
 then be able to move the result over to the hardest core java servlet
 engines around means that we now have an expanded business base. It means
  we
 have more options with our code and where we can use it. It means a lot.
 Neo
 is not 'only' new and improved. It's a new paradigm for CF programmers. I
 'm
 just waiting for it to go live so I can release notes, lists and we can t
 alk
 about it openly.
 I'm going to email the head of the Neo project and see what we can do abo
 ut
 an 'early' list for Neo or at least for some Neo concepts.


  Out of curiousity, what's the rush for NEO?
 
  Does everything always have to be NEW AND IMPROVED?
 
  (see Perl, for instance, which seems to evolve very slowly)
  -- jon
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 4:29 PM
  To: CF-Talk
  Subject: Re: death of coldfusion
 
 
  Ben Forta wrote:
 
  
   I also think that part of the frustration expressed on the Forums is
   frustration at the current economic situation in general.
 
 
  And frustration with Macromedia in partcular :)
 
  Why is there no information on Neo? Sure there was something presented
  at the DevCon, but creating a Neo resource center with mailinglist and
  not presenting any news easily raises the impression that nothing is
  happening. It could be announced on the mailinglist that some alpha
  release was shipped to selected partners (if you read very carefully
  through all the 200+ messages you will find some indications of this on
  the forums), but instead there is silence.
 
  Imagine you are visiting your college buddies during the holiday season.
  They all have nice stories about .NET and J2EE, and all we have is some
  quotes about a product that some have seen but nobody has touched.
  Nobody likes to have to listen to the success stories of others.
 
  Jochem
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Re: death of coldfusion

[Michael Dinowitz]

There are real advantages and I can't talk about them. REAL Advantages.

 I don't want to downplay the significance of code portability, but I th
ink
 that 95% of the _current_ customer base could probably care less.  For
most
 folks running CF on a Windows platform, if you tell them they can now t
ake
 their code and run it on the platform of their choice, they're going to
say
 Well, that's nice and not much more.

 I certainly understand the advantages, but it's mostly to very large
sites,
 contractors, commercial software developers, and Macromedia itself.  It
 sounds like a good move for Macromedia and for CF, but what remains to 
be
 seen is whether Neo will offer any real advantages to the average
developer
 doing Windows or Linux CF web sites or intranets.

 Jim


 - Original Message -
 From: Michael Dinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 9:41 PM
 Subject: Re: death of coldfusion


  I've dedicated the last 6.5 years of my life to CF and I'm not leavin
g
an
  y
  time soon. Do I think CF is dead? No. Do I see it with a bright futur
e?
Y
  es.
  Have I listened to what has been said and shown about Neo? Yes and so
sho
  uld
  you. The very fact that you'll be able to write cheap and fast CF cod
e
an
  d
  then be able to move the result over to the hardest core java servlet
  engines around means that we now have an expanded business base. It
means
   we
  have more options with our code and where we can use it. It means a l
ot.
  Neo
  is not 'only' new and improved. It's a new paradigm for CF programmer
s.
I
  'm
  just waiting for it to go live so I can release notes, lists and we c
an
t
  alk
  about it openly.
  I'm going to email the head of the Neo project and see what we can do
abo
  ut
  an 'early' list for Neo or at least for some Neo concepts.
 
 
   Out of curiousity, what's the rush for NEO?
  
   Does everything always have to be NEW AND IMPROVED?
  
   (see Perl, for instance, which seems to evolve very slowly)
   -- jon
  
   -Original Message-
   From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
   Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 4:29 PM
   To: CF-Talk
   Subject: Re: death of coldfusion
  
  
   Ben Forta wrote:
  
   
I also think that part of the frustration expressed on the Forums
 is
frustration at the current economic situation in general.
  
  
   And frustration with Macromedia in partcular :)
  
   Why is there no information on Neo? Sure there was something presen
ted
   at the DevCon, but creating a Neo resource center with mailinglist 
and
   not presenting any news easily raises the impression that nothing i
s
   happening. It could be announced on the mailinglist that some alpha
   release was shipped to selected partners (if you read very carefull
y
   through all the 200+ messages you will find some indications of thi
s
on
   the forums), but instead there is silence.
  
   Imagine you are visiting your college buddies during the holiday
season.
   They all have nice stories about .NET and J2EE, and all we have is
some
   quotes about a product that some have seen but nobody has touched.
   Nobody likes to have to listen to the success stories of others.
  
   Jochem
 
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RE: death of coldfusion

[Ken Wilson]

 what remains to be seen is whether Neo will offer any
 real advantages to the average developer
 doing Windows or Linux CF web sites or intranets.



How about the speed increase? From the public demos I've seen, that alone
will be worth it to *every* developer large or small.

Ken
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RE: Long Live Cold Fusion and...

[Thomas Smith]

I know that it has a 30 day trail.  This is not the same as
having a no limited time and functionality version for learning.
The software could be so designed so that it could not be
used for production.

My idea is that the more affordable the learning of CF the
more users and more future sales.

I think that there will be enough customers to pay for the
modification and development costs.

Thomas

At 12/31/2001, Andrew Scott wrote:
Thomas, CF already has a 30 day trial!!


-Original Message-
From: Thomas Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, 31 December 2001 9:12 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Long Live Cold Fusion and...

Long live Cold Fusion.

One thing that I think Macromedia should do is to make a version for
  learning
that is either given away or sold for $99.  This should be a version
that
will have
restrictions on the ability to do create web applications that could be
used
on the internet.  Such a program would only be usable for learning.  It
would not
have a time limitation and would offer all of the tags and etc..  The
program would
have use limitations so that people won't use it to produce real world
internet pages
and applications.  Restricted capabilities is not the way to go if they
block the
ability to learn.  It should be possible to restrict the use of the
developed programs to
just the computer that the learning edition is installed on and by using

the training
program.

The more people who can afford to get a learning copy of the program and
a

good book
such as WACK by Ben Forta would mean more sales later on.




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RE: Long Live Cold Fusion and...

[Andrew Scott]

Well then maybe you should see what happens after the trial then,
because it becomes a single user license that will do exactly as you
want it to do. Good for developing, playing, experimenting. If you have
not read this on the website then that is your bad luck!

Don't make a complaint about something that it already does.



-Original Message-
From: Thomas Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Monday, 31 December 2001 4:49 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Long Live Cold Fusion and...

I know that it has a 30 day trail.  This is not the same as
having a no limited time and functionality version for learning.
The software could be so designed so that it could not be
used for production.

My idea is that the more affordable the learning of CF the
more users and more future sales.

I think that there will be enough customers to pay for the
modification and development costs.

Thomas


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RE: Long Live Cold Fusion and...

[Thomas Smith]

There is a lot more to life than to be such a complainer.
Maybe you are inhaling too much smoke from the raging
fires.

Anyway,  have a good 2002.

At 12/31/2001, Andrew Scott wrote:
Well then maybe you should see what happens after the trial then,
because it becomes a single user license that will do exactly as you
want it to do. Good for developing, playing, experimenting. If you have
not read this on the website then that is your bad luck!

Don't make a complaint about something that it already does.



-Original Message-
From: Thomas Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, 31 December 2001 4:49 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Long Live Cold Fusion and...

I know that it has a 30 day trail.  This is not the same as
having a no limited time and functionality version for learning.
The software could be so designed so that it could not be
used for production.

My idea is that the more affordable the learning of CF the
more users and more future sales.

I think that there will be enough customers to pay for the
modification and development costs.

Thomas



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RE: Long Live Cold Fusion and...

[Darryl Lyons]

Thomas,

I'd listen to Andrew as he is completely correct.. Are you saying that you'd
like a multi-user 
license version of a product that is only meant to run on a localhost?
Because realistically 
that's all they can really do to stop people from placing a full-featured
application server
on a web server.

Darryl

-Original Message-
From: Thomas Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Monday, 31 December 2001 4:22 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Long Live Cold Fusion and...


There is a lot more to life than to be such a complainer.
Maybe you are inhaling too much smoke from the raging
fires.

Anyway,  have a good 2002.

At 12/31/2001, Andrew Scott wrote:
Well then maybe you should see what happens after the trial then, 
because it becomes a single user license that will do exactly as you 
want it to do. Good for developing, playing, experimenting. If you have 
not read this on the website then that is your bad luck!

Don't make a complaint about something that it already does.



-Original Message-
From: Thomas Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, 31 December 2001 4:49 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Long Live Cold Fusion and...

I know that it has a 30 day trail.  This is not the same as having a no 
limited time and functionality version for learning. The software could 
be so designed so that it could not be used for production.

My idea is that the more affordable the learning of CF the more users 
and more future sales.

I think that there will be enough customers to pay for the modification 
and development costs.

Thomas




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Long Live Cold Fusion and...

[Matt Brown]

 One thing that I think Macromedia should do is to make a version for 
learning that is either given away or sold for $99.  This should be a 
version that will have restrictions on the ability to do create web 
applications that could be used on the internet.  Such a program would only 
be usable for learning.  It would not have a time limitation and would 
offer all of the tags and etc..  

DANG! Am I good or what?

http://www.macromedia.com/resources/education/

Includes CFStudio 5, UltraDev 4 and CF5 Server Single User version. Limited 
to 1 IP address but fully functional nothing deleted or left out.

It is 149 which is a little more than you were looking for, but still 
pretty cheap.
_

Matt Brown   Community Manager
Macromedia  (650) 481-4525   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: death of coldfusion

[Matt Brown]

At 10:31 PM 12/30/2001 -0500, you wrote:
so now 4.0 could be free or at least deeply discounted...
creates new sales for dead products as well...

FWIW, that is something that a lot of software companies tried these many 
years ago. It turns out to be a really bad call for the most part. It 
cannibalizes your current sales because people figure it is better to go 
for free than to pay for the latest. It forces you to support older 
versions which means more training for technicians. It also creates a 
perception that your software has no value, if you give it away for free 
you can't charge for it later. Corel used to do this. One of the more 
current models that is similar is Linux and some server products where 
there is a free version and a supported version. If you look at how those 
companies have faired, Macromedia's journey of the last few months looks 
like a church picnic.

It is good to ask these things and to think out of the box, but this isn't 
the way. I like the idea of being able to buy features as you go. That is 
really cool. I don't know if there is any research on that, but it might be 
worth looking at.
_

Matt Brown   Community Manager
Macromedia  (650) 481-4525   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Long Live Cold Fusion and...(comments)

[Thomas Smith]

Unless I miss wrote the e/m I did not say that there should be a multi-user
license version of the product.

What I wrote or MEANT to write (I will check later) was that there should be
 a
training or learning version of Cold Fusion which could only be used to 
learn the
program.  It could not be used for production or used on more than one 
computer.
What I had in mind was something in the software which would do like the XP
programs which would restrict the use of the program to just one computer.

Where as the 30 day version is free this would cost a few.  Maybe 
$99.  Other than
it not being capable of producing real world production web pages and sites
 it
would be full functional as a learning version of the product.  I will say
 
that I do
not know enough to create such a version.  There may be technical obstacles.

If I did not write the above I am wrong for my comments to Andrew and for 
having
mis-wrote.

Later I will re read, if I still have, the e/m that I wrote.



At 12/31/2001, Darryl Lyons wrote:
Thomas,

I'd listen to Andrew as he is completely correct.. Are you saying that
 you'd
like a multi-user
license version of a product that is only meant to run on a localhost?
Because realistically
that's all they can really do to stop people from placing a full-featured
application server
on a web server.

Darryl

-Original Message-
From: Thomas Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, 31 December 2001 4:22 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Long Live Cold Fusion and...


There is a lot more to life than to be such a complainer.
Maybe you are inhaling too much smoke from the raging
fires.

Anyway,  have a good 2002.

At 12/31/2001, Andrew Scott wrote:
 Well then maybe you should see what happens after the trial then,
 because it becomes a single user license that will do exactly as you
 want it to do. Good for developing, playing, experimenting. If you have
 not read this on the website then that is your bad luck!
 
 Don't make a complaint about something that it already does.
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Thomas Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Monday, 31 December 2001 4:49 PM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: RE: Long Live Cold Fusion and...
 
 I know that it has a 30 day trail.  This is not the same as having a no
 limited time and functionality version for learning. The software could
 be so designed so that it could not be used for production.
 
 My idea is that the more affordable the learning of CF the more users
 and more future sales.
 
 I think that there will be enough customers to pay for the modification
 and development costs.
 
 Thomas
 
 
 


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RE: death of coldfusion

[Paris Lundis]

I agree in part on this conversation on the perceived value matter...

However, there is ample money to be made in customer service and support...
Why cant people understand that and create a sustainable model around it..
maybe offsite call support...

Additionally, an end of life product has some great support.. the bugs are
known and limitations...  makes it easy to close it out and say look this is
why it is discounted...

Further, if an old version is of no value seemingly, can I have them.. and
if they are of value and impact sales, lets face it, they aren't going to go
away.. meaning support is still needed...and a user base will always
exist...

Lastly, a whole bunch of people couldn't care less that the newest version
has new features or is faster... there is a sea of already built work sites
out there running fine on whatever version they started on and they
should... Upselling and latest version sales is only applicable to tech
folks who chase features, companies with very deep pockets (who will buy
anything) and those firms that have no previous investment in web
technologies...  Sure there are some stragglers...

Point being, there is some finite end in site. Growth is not infinite. So
supporting earlier version seems lucrative in my mind at worst.

I know many PHP programmers who likely would have been Cold Fusion folks if
the price wasn't the issue... AS the free packages mature and people like
RedHat keep giving things like a complete commerce suite away for free (and
it is easy enough to get installed), the more likely and credible the
challenge becomes and thus the game and flexibility better...

I have completed darn near 100 CF sites in my career.. and had I not been so
vocal cold fusion wouldn't have likely been used in 85 of them... Cost very
often was a big enough issue to make it very annoying on average.


-paris

-Original Message-
From: Matt Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 23:43
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: death of coldfusion


At 10:31 PM 12/30/2001 -0500, you wrote:
so now 4.0 could be free or at least deeply discounted...
creates new sales for dead products as well...

FWIW, that is something that a lot of software companies tried these many
years ago. It turns out to be a really bad call for the most part. It
cannibalizes your current sales because people figure it is better to go
for free than to pay for the latest. It forces you to support older
versions which means more training for technicians. It also creates a
perception that your software has no value, if you give it away for free
you can't charge for it later. Corel used to do this. One of the more
current models that is similar is Linux and some server products where
there is a free version and a supported version. If you look at how those
companies have faired, Macromedia's journey of the last few months looks
like a church picnic.

It is good to ask these things and to think out of the box, but this isn't
the way. I like the idea of being able to buy features as you go. That is
really cool. I don't know if there is any research on that, but it might be
worth looking at.
_

Matt Brown   Community Manager
Macromedia  (650) 481-4525   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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