RE: RE: MS CF?
I think the point was that he's not willing to or interrested in earning money at the expense of his principals, and so while he invests with the hope of earning money, he's not willing to invest in companies which he sees compromising those principals. How far are you willing to go to earn your money? Are you willing to kill for it? Are you willing to support people who kill for it as long as you don't have to do the killing yourself? Are you willing to support the practices of companies which encourage things like the Etheopean famine of the 80's which was caused in large part by the policies of the WTO? If you believe that tobacco products are harmful not only to smokers but to others as well, do you continue to invest in tobacco companies if you think they'll make you money? Or do you preserve your own principals at the expense of money possibly gained? I agree with Rob personally : some things (people primarily although not solely) are more important than money. Original Message --- The Stock Market is all about money. That's the first rule of investing. Buying or selling stocks based on any other ideas is just silly. Good luck with that. Greg -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:58 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing unless there is an amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in companies where I like their business practices, think they have good products, and approve of how they treat their staff. Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in the end how you run your business is how you wind up being treated - in this world or the next. I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, and I think they are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but that is all they do. Plus I sleep *really* well. ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put value on. (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you) Rob -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but wouldn't you make out well if you were suddenly in possession of $54 MS stock in exchange for your $11 MM shares? -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! Rob -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? its not -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 17:07 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Please tell me this isn't true. Rob http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net Scientia Est Potentia -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: RE: MS CF?
Original Message --- You can sit here and complain that MS is the bad guy, but they are not the company you have put your faith in. I know I have the unpopular view on this list as anti-MM, but I can tell you that if MS owned Flash, you wouldn't have to worry about it being sold again. Same goes for Cold Fusion. You could rest assured that the technology and education you put into MS will still be viable in 20 years. - Like COM? I do agree a wide skill set is good. I often wish I had more hours in the day to work with Java and PHP, but I seem to be able to consistently keep myself busy creating new things and new ways to do things with the 4-5 languages I use primarily ( CF, SQL, Javascript, HTML/CSS ) -- I like Flash also, but haven't yet seen any reasonably accessible / easy ways to accomplish many of the things I do with CF and dhtml. As a result, if I had to lose one (not that I'd want to lose either), I'd rather lose the one that MS is less likely to abandon if they were to acquire MM, but I think you're right, I think a Sun counter-buyout is probably more likely. I'd be a little surprised by a buyout from either IBM or Oracle because I see them as having less to gain by preserving an abstraction for the Java language which makes it more accessible to the general populace. Both companies to me seem to bank largely against the idea that anything should be done in a simple / easy manner. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: RE: MS CF? (getting OT)
I don't remember the exact reasoning (something to do with the value of bonds and the rates they mature at being tied to the economy), but I do remember hearing on public radio ( Fresh Air I think ) that the leap a lot of people have been making to Bonds may actually be a bad thing. Iirc what they said was -- having / buying bonds isn't such a bad thing, but you shouldn't put too much of your portfolio into them because there's a good chance that they will not produce the desired stability that people are buying them for. So if you're heavy in bonds in the hope they'll be stable, it's possible you might wind up with a rude awakening as they fail to mature on time. Original Message --- We sold off our equity positions in 2000 and moved the money into bond funds. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:52 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? (getting OT) Where are all the winners now? Rob -Original Message- From: Luce, Greg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 10:42 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? (getting OT) I could ask the guys on the trading floor for their opinion, but I don't think I have to. I guess I should have specified Investing in the stock market to make money as opposed to just The stock market. I didn't know there was a different way to look at it though. Perhaps that explains some things. Throughout the 90s I wondered how everyone was winning. Now I see there is a whole other segment. I wondered who was losing. Greg -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:33 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? (getting OT) Funny, I was under the impression the stock market was about stock. If I am not mistaken when you buy stock you are buying a piece of the company - therefore, you are saying I like what this company is doing I am going to give them money so they can do what they are doing some more. - weather you mean to or not. It has become a Las Vegas type institution where most don't care where their vote is going, but it goes none-the-less. Thank you for your good luck wishes, but from the tone of your reply, I think you will need the luck more then I will. Rob -Original Message- From: Luce, Greg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 10:14 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? The Stock Market is all about money. That's the first rule of investing. Buying or selling stocks based on any other ideas is just silly. Good luck with that. Greg -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:58 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing unless there is an amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in companies where I like their business practices, think they have good products, and approve of how they treat their staff. Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in the end how you run your business is how you wind up being treated - in this world or the next. I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, and I think they are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but that is all they do. Plus I sleep *really* well. ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put value on. (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you) Rob -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but wouldn't you make out well if you were suddenly in possession of $54 MS stock in exchange for your $11 MM shares? -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! Rob -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? its not -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 17:07 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Please tell me this isn't true. Rob http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net Scientia Est Potentia -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html
RE: RE: MS CF? (getting OT)
If you reread my message you will see that I specified bond funds; not bonds. Unlike bonds, bond funds offer daily liquidity the same as any mutual fund. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 4:08 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: RE: MS CF? (getting OT) I don't remember the exact reasoning (something to do with the value of bonds and the rates they mature at being tied to the economy), but I do remember hearing on public radio ( Fresh Air I think ) that the leap a lot of people have been making to Bonds may actually be a bad thing. Iirc what they said was -- having / buying bonds isn't such a bad thing, but you shouldn't put too much of your portfolio into them because there's a good chance that they will not produce the desired stability that people are buying them for. So if you're heavy in bonds in the hope they'll be stable, it's possible you might wind up with a rude awakening as they fail to mature on time. Original Message --- We sold off our equity positions in 2000 and moved the money into bond funds. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:52 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? (getting OT) Where are all the winners now? Rob -Original Message- From: Luce, Greg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 10:42 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? (getting OT) I could ask the guys on the trading floor for their opinion, but I don't think I have to. I guess I should have specified Investing in the stock market to make money as opposed to just The stock market. I didn't know there was a different way to look at it though. Perhaps that explains some things. Throughout the 90s I wondered how everyone was winning. Now I see there is a whole other segment. I wondered who was losing. Greg -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:33 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? (getting OT) Funny, I was under the impression the stock market was about stock. If I am not mistaken when you buy stock you are buying a piece of the company - therefore, you are saying I like what this company is doing I am going to give them money so they can do what they are doing some more. - weather you mean to or not. It has become a Las Vegas type institution where most don't care where their vote is going, but it goes none-the-less. Thank you for your good luck wishes, but from the tone of your reply, I think you will need the luck more then I will. Rob -Original Message- From: Luce, Greg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 10:14 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? The Stock Market is all about money. That's the first rule of investing. Buying or selling stocks based on any other ideas is just silly. Good luck with that. Greg -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:58 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing unless there is an amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in companies where I like their business practices, think they have good products, and approve of how they treat their staff. Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in the end how you run your business is how you wind up being treated - in this world or the next. I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, and I think they are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but that is all they do. Plus I sleep *really* well. ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put value on. (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you) Rob -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but wouldn't you make out well if you were suddenly in possession of $54 MS stock in exchange for your $11 MM shares? -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! Rob -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE
MS CF?
http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
Re: MS CF?
All I can say is Please God NO Microsoft bashing asside (I use it on my desktop) I really don't want to see this happen to the MM products, the last thing they need is to be taken from useful, user friendly tools and turned into bloated, buggy, unstable cr**. Just my 2p. -- James Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Len Conrad [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 10:06 AM Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Re: MS CF?
There is a gem in the article though. This mention: The ColdFusion web application server is regarded as superior to Microsoft's Active Server Pages (ASPs) and even Santa Clara, California-based Sun's Java Server Pages (JSPs) because of its simplicity, power and completeness. ColdFusion MX, meanwhile, uses ColdFusion Mark-up Language (CFML) tags that compile to Java. That being said, this thread is going to spawn into a whole MS bashing debate and is best moved to a non-technical list such as CF-OT. All I can say is Please God NO Microsoft bashing asside (I use it on my desktop) I really don't want to see this happen to the MM products, the last thing they need is to be taken from useful, user friendly tools and turned into bloated, buggy, unstable cr**. Just my 2p. -- James Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Len Conrad [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 10:06 AM Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
RE: MS CF?
: http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html I'll have to kill myself if this happens. Really. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
RE: MS CF?
I doubt this will happen, Microsoft have no need to look at CF or Macromedia; its not their bag MM are of no threat to MS this is reflected in the two turnovers..Billions v's Millions. -Original Message- From: Les Mizzell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 10:12 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? : http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html I'll have to kill myself if this happens. Really. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: MS CF?
If it happens it happens, being a developer I'll use whatever tool's I'm told to use either by Clients or the company I work for at the time. As for if MS buys MM personally I can see it happening, based on the aqusitions its made over the years, and also the fact that the only tools MS have for web design are Front Page and ASP.Net, and they arnt the easiest to use. Well thats my two penneth. Jason Lees Development Team Leader National Express Coaches Ltd. -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 10:07 To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
Re: MS CF?
I'll believe it when I see it. Anyway, if Microsoft has you in their sights...you know you have to be doing something right. Of course, Microsoft isn't allowed to distribute any Java technology without making nice with Sun, because of the lawsuit, and we all know that isn't going to happen. So if Microsoft were to buy Macromedia, they would have to either kill CF, sell it off, or perhaps keep the name and rewrite the engine as a .Net app. None of which make me exactly happy...except maybe the chance to replace Studio with VS.Net ;) Oh well...one thing is for sure, Macromedia's stock is going to get a nice push for a bit if Wall Street catches this rumor. -- jon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Monday, December 23, 2002, 5:06:31 AM, you wrote: LC http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
Re: MS CF?
Quoting Len Conrad [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html Last month it was Apple, next month it probably is Adobe (unless everybody will be busy reporting real news). shrug Jochem -- Friends don't let friends use table-based layouts. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
RE: MS CF?
Please tell me this isn't true. Rob http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net Scientia Est Potentia -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: MS CF?
its not -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 17:07 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Please tell me this isn't true. Rob http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net Scientia Est Potentia -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: MS CF?
Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! Rob -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? its not -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 17:07 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Please tell me this isn't true. Rob http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net Scientia Est Potentia -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: MS CF?
Yeah, we all know Microsoft isn't profitable right? ;-) Greg -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:32 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! Rob -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? its not -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 17:07 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Please tell me this isn't true. Rob http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net Scientia Est Potentia -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: MS CF?
Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but wouldn't you make out well if you were suddenly in possession of $54 MS stock in exchange for your $11 MM shares? -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! Rob -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? its not -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 17:07 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Please tell me this isn't true. Rob http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net Scientia Est Potentia -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: MS CF?
You kidding? MS is all about capturing the user install base (Windows, IE etc..)...and Flash is the most widely distributed run time...more so than windows. Another attractive aspect is the Dreamweaver user base... I would be very distraught, although not surprised, if MS has been considering MM for a long time... Vivre la resistance! Stace -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 5:26 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? I doubt this will happen, Microsoft have no need to look at CF or Macromedia; its not their bag MM are of no threat to MS this is reflected in the two turnovers..Billions v's Millions. -Original Message- From: Les Mizzell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 10:12 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? : http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html I'll have to kill myself if this happens. Really. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: MS CF?
Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing unless there is an amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in companies where I like their business practices, think they have good products, and approve of how they treat their staff. Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in the end how you run your business is how you wind up being treated - in this world or the next. I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, and I think they are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but that is all they do. Plus I sleep *really* well. ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put value on. (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you) Rob -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but wouldn't you make out well if you were suddenly in possession of $54 MS stock in exchange for your $11 MM shares? -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! Rob -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? its not -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 17:07 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Please tell me this isn't true. Rob http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net Scientia Est Potentia -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
RE: MS CF?
The Stock Market is all about money. That's the first rule of investing. Buying or selling stocks based on any other ideas is just silly. Good luck with that. Greg -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:58 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing unless there is an amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in companies where I like their business practices, think they have good products, and approve of how they treat their staff. Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in the end how you run your business is how you wind up being treated - in this world or the next. I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, and I think they are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but that is all they do. Plus I sleep *really* well. ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put value on. (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you) Rob -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but wouldn't you make out well if you were suddenly in possession of $54 MS stock in exchange for your $11 MM shares? -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! Rob -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? its not -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 17:07 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Please tell me this isn't true. Rob http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net Scientia Est Potentia -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: MS CF?
nah - no pitying required :) So how would selling your MS shares after MM was acquired not be reinforcing your opinion below? You would both be voicing your disapproval to MS and be profiting from it. Seems silly as an investor to voice your opinion before hand based on internet speculation from the Register. Adam. -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing unless there is an amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in companies where I like their business practices, think they have good products, and approve of how they treat their staff. Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in the end how you run your business is how you wind up being treated - in this world or the next. I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, and I think they are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but that is all they do. Plus I sleep *really* well. ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put value on. (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you) Rob -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but wouldn't you make out well if you were suddenly in possession of $54 MS stock in exchange for your $11 MM shares? -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! Rob -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? its not -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 17:07 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Please tell me this isn't true. Rob http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net Scientia Est Potentia -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: MS CF?
At 01:14 PM 12/23/02 -0500, Luce, Greg wrote: The Stock Market is all about money. That's the first rule of investing. Buying or selling stocks based on any other ideas is just silly. Good luck with that. Actually, given the number of ethical funds out there, a lot of people think the way Rob does. I'd say the world would be a better place if more people bought stocks this way. A way to great wealth? Probably not. But money isn't everything. T ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: MS CF? (getting OT)
Funny, I was under the impression the stock market was about stock. If I am not mistaken when you buy stock you are buying a piece of the company - therefore, you are saying I like what this company is doing I am going to give them money so they can do what they are doing some more. - weather you mean to or not. It has become a Las Vegas type institution where most don't care where their vote is going, but it goes none-the-less. Thank you for your good luck wishes, but from the tone of your reply, I think you will need the luck more then I will. Rob -Original Message- From: Luce, Greg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 10:14 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? The Stock Market is all about money. That's the first rule of investing. Buying or selling stocks based on any other ideas is just silly. Good luck with that. Greg -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:58 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing unless there is an amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in companies where I like their business practices, think they have good products, and approve of how they treat their staff. Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in the end how you run your business is how you wind up being treated - in this world or the next. I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, and I think they are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but that is all they do. Plus I sleep *really* well. ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put value on. (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you) Rob -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but wouldn't you make out well if you were suddenly in possession of $54 MS stock in exchange for your $11 MM shares? -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! Rob -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? its not -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 17:07 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Please tell me this isn't true. Rob http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net Scientia Est Potentia -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: MS CF?
At 01:14 PM 12/23/2002 -0500, you wrote: The Stock Market is all about money. That's the first rule of investing. Buying or selling stocks based on any other ideas is just silly. Good luck with that. I see your point, but I also see Rob's point too. There are many theories of investing in the stock market. I'm sure there are plenty of profitable companies that adhere to good business practices. Greg -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:58 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing unless there is an amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in companies where I like their business practices, think they have good products, and approve of how they treat their staff. Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in the end how you run your business is how you wind up being treated - in this world or the next. I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, and I think they are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but that is all they do. Plus I sleep *really* well. ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put value on. (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you) Rob -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but wouldn't you make out well if you were suddenly in possession of $54 MS stock in exchange for your $11 MM shares? -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! Rob -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? its not -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 17:07 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Please tell me this isn't true. Rob http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net Scientia Est Potentia -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
RE: MS CF?
You can sit here and complain that MS is the bad guy, but they are not the company you have put your faith in. I know I have the unpopular view on this list as anti-MM, but I can tell you that if MS owned Flash, you wouldn't have to worry about it being sold again. Same goes for Cold Fusion. You could rest assured that the technology and education you put into MS will still be viable in 20 years. Which is something only a fool would say about Cold Fusion or Flash which are both still in their relative adolescence. Quite frankly, MS offers developers security. Something that MM and Allaire have failed quite miserably at (IMO). Rest assured though, we will probably not fall to the evil empire. If acquiring MM is a bid to diminish J2EE, I would expect IBM or Sun to offer a merger to counter an MS acquisition. After all, they both seemed to have invested a great deal in Cold Fusion and its J2ee developers. Although I still tell every CF developer I meet to learn a new language. Bottom line is that a broader skill set is never a detriment. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:22 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? nah - no pitying required :) So how would selling your MS shares after MM was acquired not be reinforcing your opinion below? You would both be voicing your disapproval to MS and be profiting from it. Seems silly as an investor to voice your opinion before hand based on internet speculation from the Register. Adam. -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing unless there is an amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in companies where I like their business practices, think they have good products, and approve of how they treat their staff. Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in the end how you run your business is how you wind up being treated - in this world or the next. I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, and I think they are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but that is all they do. Plus I sleep *really* well. ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put value on. (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you) Rob -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but wouldn't you make out well if you were suddenly in possession of $54 MS stock in exchange for your $11 MM shares? -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! Rob -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? its not -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 17:07 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Please tell me this isn't true. Rob http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net Scientia Est Potentia -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: MS CF? (getting OT)
I could ask the guys on the trading floor for their opinion, but I don't think I have to. I guess I should have specified Investing in the stock market to make money as opposed to just The stock market. I didn't know there was a different way to look at it though. Perhaps that explains some things. Throughout the 90s I wondered how everyone was winning. Now I see there is a whole other segment. I wondered who was losing. Greg -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:33 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? (getting OT) Funny, I was under the impression the stock market was about stock. If I am not mistaken when you buy stock you are buying a piece of the company - therefore, you are saying I like what this company is doing I am going to give them money so they can do what they are doing some more. - weather you mean to or not. It has become a Las Vegas type institution where most don't care where their vote is going, but it goes none-the-less. Thank you for your good luck wishes, but from the tone of your reply, I think you will need the luck more then I will. Rob -Original Message- From: Luce, Greg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 10:14 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? The Stock Market is all about money. That's the first rule of investing. Buying or selling stocks based on any other ideas is just silly. Good luck with that. Greg -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:58 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing unless there is an amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in companies where I like their business practices, think they have good products, and approve of how they treat their staff. Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in the end how you run your business is how you wind up being treated - in this world or the next. I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, and I think they are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but that is all they do. Plus I sleep *really* well. ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put value on. (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you) Rob -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but wouldn't you make out well if you were suddenly in possession of $54 MS stock in exchange for your $11 MM shares? -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! Rob -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? its not -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 17:07 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Please tell me this isn't true. Rob http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net Scientia Est Potentia -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: MS CF?
Indeed. While I may like Macromedia products, people, business practices, etc; I won't be buying any of their stock because it is a horrible investment right now. Soon all publicly traded companies will be forced to expense their stock options. When Macromedia is forced to expense their stock options their stock is going to drop like a rock. Macromedia's fiscal 2002 options expense was a whopping $1.57 per share. And keep in mind that the company is expected to earn on a pro forma basis only $0.29 in fiscal 2003. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Luce, Greg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:14 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? The Stock Market is all about money. That's the first rule of investing. Buying or selling stocks based on any other ideas is just silly. Good luck with that. Greg -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:58 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing unless there is an amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in companies where I like their business practices, think they have good products, and approve of how they treat their staff. Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in the end how you run your business is how you wind up being treated - in this world or the next. I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, and I think they are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but that is all they do. Plus I sleep *really* well. ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put value on. (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you) Rob -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but wouldn't you make out well if you were suddenly in possession of $54 MS stock in exchange for your $11 MM shares? -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! Rob -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? its not -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 17:07 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Please tell me this isn't true. Rob http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net Scientia Est Potentia -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: MS CF? (getting OT)
Where are all the winners now? Rob -Original Message- From: Luce, Greg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 10:42 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? (getting OT) I could ask the guys on the trading floor for their opinion, but I don't think I have to. I guess I should have specified Investing in the stock market to make money as opposed to just The stock market. I didn't know there was a different way to look at it though. Perhaps that explains some things. Throughout the 90s I wondered how everyone was winning. Now I see there is a whole other segment. I wondered who was losing. Greg -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:33 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? (getting OT) Funny, I was under the impression the stock market was about stock. If I am not mistaken when you buy stock you are buying a piece of the company - therefore, you are saying I like what this company is doing I am going to give them money so they can do what they are doing some more. - weather you mean to or not. It has become a Las Vegas type institution where most don't care where their vote is going, but it goes none-the-less. Thank you for your good luck wishes, but from the tone of your reply, I think you will need the luck more then I will. Rob -Original Message- From: Luce, Greg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 10:14 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? The Stock Market is all about money. That's the first rule of investing. Buying or selling stocks based on any other ideas is just silly. Good luck with that. Greg -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:58 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing unless there is an amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in companies where I like their business practices, think they have good products, and approve of how they treat their staff. Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in the end how you run your business is how you wind up being treated - in this world or the next. I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, and I think they are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but that is all they do. Plus I sleep *really* well. ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put value on. (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you) Rob -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but wouldn't you make out well if you were suddenly in possession of $54 MS stock in exchange for your $11 MM shares? -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! Rob -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? its not -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 17:07 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Please tell me this isn't true. Rob http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net Scientia Est Potentia -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: MS CF?
MSFT offers developers security? You mean like the VB developers they abandoned to launch VB.NET. Or the C++ developers they abandoned for C#. Then of course there is the various technologies they have abandoned in favor of something newer that does the same thing only differently and incompatible with the last like DAO, RDO, and COM. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:44 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? You can sit here and complain that MS is the bad guy, but they are not the company you have put your faith in. I know I have the unpopular view on this list as anti-MM, but I can tell you that if MS owned Flash, you wouldn't have to worry about it being sold again. Same goes for Cold Fusion. You could rest assured that the technology and education you put into MS will still be viable in 20 years. Which is something only a fool would say about Cold Fusion or Flash which are both still in their relative adolescence. Quite frankly, MS offers developers security. Something that MM and Allaire have failed quite miserably at (IMO). Rest assured though, we will probably not fall to the evil empire. If acquiring MM is a bid to diminish J2EE, I would expect IBM or Sun to offer a merger to counter an MS acquisition. After all, they both seemed to have invested a great deal in Cold Fusion and its J2ee developers. Although I still tell every CF developer I meet to learn a new language. Bottom line is that a broader skill set is never a detriment. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:22 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? nah - no pitying required :) So how would selling your MS shares after MM was acquired not be reinforcing your opinion below? You would both be voicing your disapproval to MS and be profiting from it. Seems silly as an investor to voice your opinion before hand based on internet speculation from the Register. Adam. -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing unless there is an amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in companies where I like their business practices, think they have good products, and approve of how they treat their staff. Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in the end how you run your business is how you wind up being treated - in this world or the next. I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, and I think they are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but that is all they do. Plus I sleep *really* well. ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put value on. (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you) Rob -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but wouldn't you make out well if you were suddenly in possession of $54 MS stock in exchange for your $11 MM shares? -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! Rob -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? its not -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 17:07 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Please tell me this isn't true. Rob http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net Scientia Est Potentia -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: MS CF?
Developer security You mean like they did with ASP? Oh, wait, they stopped development of that... And how long before asp.net gets scrapped for something new And I doubt 20 years from now you can still use ASP I can see it now DreamPage or FrontWeaver can u imagine what would happen to DWMX if it fell into MS hands??? Talk about security break down And all this so MS can get more windows servers out there, they have a lot to prove first. Remember the saying: Money can buy a lot of things in this world, just not a secure windows server Dave -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:44 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? You can sit here and complain that MS is the bad guy, but they are not the company you have put your faith in. I know I have the unpopular view on this list as anti-MM, but I can tell you that if MS owned Flash, you wouldn't have to worry about it being sold again. Same goes for Cold Fusion. You could rest assured that the technology and education you put into MS will still be viable in 20 years. Which is something only a fool would say about Cold Fusion or Flash which are both still in their relative adolescence. Quite frankly, MS offers developers security. Something that MM and Allaire have failed quite miserably at (IMO). Rest assured though, we will probably not fall to the evil empire. If acquiring MM is a bid to diminish J2EE, I would expect IBM or Sun to offer a merger to counter an MS acquisition. After all, they both seemed to have invested a great deal in Cold Fusion and its J2ee developers. Although I still tell every CF developer I meet to learn a new language. Bottom line is that a broader skill set is never a detriment. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:22 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? nah - no pitying required :) So how would selling your MS shares after MM was acquired not be reinforcing your opinion below? You would both be voicing your disapproval to MS and be profiting from it. Seems silly as an investor to voice your opinion before hand based on internet speculation from the Register. Adam. -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing unless there is an amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in companies where I like their business practices, think they have good products, and approve of how they treat their staff. Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in the end how you run your business is how you wind up being treated - in this world or the next. I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, and I think they are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but that is all they do. Plus I sleep *really* well. ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put value on. (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you) Rob -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but wouldn't you make out well if you were suddenly in possession of $54 MS stock in exchange for your $11 MM shares? -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! Rob -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? its not -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 17:07 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Please tell me this isn't true. Rob http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net Scientia Est Potentia -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com
RE: MS CF?
Rob, Where do you work? I don't know any CF developers who work in the trenches who can afford to invest in the stock market and NOT make money. Maybe you should check out philanthropy and making grants to non-profit orgs. I mean, you're not even getting a tax-break for all the good work you are doing. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:58 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing unless there is an amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in companies where I like their business practices, think they have good products, and approve of how they treat their staff. Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in the end how you run your business is how you wind up being treated - in this world or the next. I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, and I think they are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but that is all they do. Plus I sleep *really* well. ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put value on. (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you) Rob -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but wouldn't you make out well if you were suddenly in possession of $54 MS stock in exchange for your $11 MM shares? -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! Rob -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? its not -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 17:07 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Please tell me this isn't true. Rob http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net Scientia Est Potentia -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: MS CF?
Blah blah Microsoft blah blah Macromedia blah blah Allaire blah blah Any reason why we can't move this discussion to a different list? ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: MS CF? (getting OT)
A final note - then I'll stop provoking - I offer two pieces of advice: 1) read the Millionaire next door 2) When dealing in investing, be wearing of trusting someone who would sink $60,000 - $80,000 on a depreciating asset (their car). :) You guys are fun! Rob ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: MS CF? (getting OT)
We sold off our equity positions in 2000 and moved the money into bond funds. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:52 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? (getting OT) Where are all the winners now? Rob -Original Message- From: Luce, Greg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 10:42 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? (getting OT) I could ask the guys on the trading floor for their opinion, but I don't think I have to. I guess I should have specified Investing in the stock market to make money as opposed to just The stock market. I didn't know there was a different way to look at it though. Perhaps that explains some things. Throughout the 90s I wondered how everyone was winning. Now I see there is a whole other segment. I wondered who was losing. Greg -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:33 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? (getting OT) Funny, I was under the impression the stock market was about stock. If I am not mistaken when you buy stock you are buying a piece of the company - therefore, you are saying I like what this company is doing I am going to give them money so they can do what they are doing some more. - weather you mean to or not. It has become a Las Vegas type institution where most don't care where their vote is going, but it goes none-the-less. Thank you for your good luck wishes, but from the tone of your reply, I think you will need the luck more then I will. Rob -Original Message- From: Luce, Greg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 10:14 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? The Stock Market is all about money. That's the first rule of investing. Buying or selling stocks based on any other ideas is just silly. Good luck with that. Greg -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:58 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing unless there is an amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in companies where I like their business practices, think they have good products, and approve of how they treat their staff. Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in the end how you run your business is how you wind up being treated - in this world or the next. I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, and I think they are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but that is all they do. Plus I sleep *really* well. ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put value on. (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you) Rob -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but wouldn't you make out well if you were suddenly in possession of $54 MS stock in exchange for your $11 MM shares? -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! Rob -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? its not -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 17:07 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Please tell me this isn't true. Rob http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net Scientia Est Potentia -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
RE: MS CF? (OT for cf-talk)
Way OT, but the world would be a better place if people spent their money this way period. Stock market is nice, but it's the revenue from customers that makes a company. If no customers are spending, then no investors are investing, and that company goes bye bye. I was just wondering why he would sell his stock based on this speculation. Maybe if it was one of those companies that makes its keep through litigation (Sun, Adobe, etc.), it would be a different story, as we all know what happens to a company when they start spending more time in court than making their products better. But you can almost assume that MM wouldn't sell to MS at a loss, which goes back to my question of why somebody would sell before the acquisition, and not after. Selling before would actually be supporting MS, which he stated he didn't want to do for ethical reasons. Adam. -Original Message- From: Thane Sherrington [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:21 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? At 01:14 PM 12/23/02 -0500, Luce, Greg wrote: The Stock Market is all about money. That's the first rule of investing. Buying or selling stocks based on any other ideas is just silly. Good luck with that. Actually, given the number of ethical funds out there, a lot of people think the way Rob does. I'd say the world would be a better place if more people bought stocks this way. A way to great wealth? Probably not. But money isn't everything. T ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Re: MS CF?
Here is a question. Why is it that no other news outlet is reporting this? I mean, I go to the following sites, and these are the only stories I can find that mention M$ and MM in the same story: CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/industry/09/26/microsoft.flash.idg/index.html MSNBC: Nothing Bloomberg: Nothing Forbes: Nothing Macromedia: Nothing M$: Nothing I could go on, but I think you all get the point. Why is it that The Register is allowed to break with this news, then all of the other more reputable sources out there have nothing, and the one that does touts the relationship that MM and M$ have had. I say we all stop with The Sky Is Falling crap, move this to cf-community, and get back to taking about substantiated facts rather than hollow rumors. - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:50 PM Subject: RE: MS CF? MSFT offers developers security? You mean like the VB developers they abandoned to launch VB.NET. Or the C++ developers they abandoned for C#. Then of course there is the various technologies they have abandoned in favor of something newer that does the same thing only differently and incompatible with the last like DAO, RDO, and COM. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:44 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? You can sit here and complain that MS is the bad guy, but they are not the company you have put your faith in. I know I have the unpopular view on this list as anti-MM, but I can tell you that if MS owned Flash, you wouldn't have to worry about it being sold again. Same goes for Cold Fusion. You could rest assured that the technology and education you put into MS will still be viable in 20 years. Which is something only a fool would say about Cold Fusion or Flash which are both still in their relative adolescence. Quite frankly, MS offers developers security. Something that MM and Allaire have failed quite miserably at (IMO). Rest assured though, we will probably not fall to the evil empire. If acquiring MM is a bid to diminish J2EE, I would expect IBM or Sun to offer a merger to counter an MS acquisition. After all, they both seemed to have invested a great deal in Cold Fusion and its J2ee developers. Although I still tell every CF developer I meet to learn a new language. Bottom line is that a broader skill set is never a detriment. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:22 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? nah - no pitying required :) So how would selling your MS shares after MM was acquired not be reinforcing your opinion below? You would both be voicing your disapproval to MS and be profiting from it. Seems silly as an investor to voice your opinion before hand based on internet speculation from the Register. Adam. -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing unless there is an amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in companies where I like their business practices, think they have good products, and approve of how they treat their staff. Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in the end how you run your business is how you wind up being treated - in this world or the next. I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, and I think they are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but that is all they do. Plus I sleep *really* well. ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put value on. (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you) Rob -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but wouldn't you make out well if you were suddenly in possession of $54 MS stock in exchange for your $11 MM shares? -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! Rob -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent
Re: MS CF?
Adrocknaphobia Jones wrote: You can sit here and complain that MS is the bad guy, but they are not the company you have put your faith in. I know I have the unpopular view on this list as anti-MM, but I can tell you that if MS owned Flash, you wouldn't have to worry about it being sold again. Same goes for Cold Fusion. You could rest assured that the technology and education you put into MS will still be viable in 20 years. Which is something only a fool would say about Cold Fusion or Flash which are both still in their relative adolescence. I most certainly hope that in 20 years nothing of the state of the art web technology I learn today is more relevant as COBOL is for web development now. Jochem ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: MS CF?
Can we hold you you to that? Pretty bold statement IMHO... -Original Message- From: Les Mizzell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:12 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? : http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html I'll have to kill myself if this happens. Really. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
RE: MS CF?
VB developers who were abandoned? I felt no more abandoned by .NET than I did with CFMX. It's just a progression. It's an evolution. I mean CF5 to CFMX was a much bigger gap and the progression from VB to VB.NET. You act as if VB and C++ don't exist. Not too mention C# is not a replacement for C++. Further, are you spiting C# for giving you a language and CRLs to compile your code to nearly NEwhere? Hate to break it to you, but a lot of people have wanted a language like that for a long time. You can mention DAO and RDO fairly. As well as I can mention Generator and Homesite. Which were products, NOT technologies. You can't blame MS for abandoning older technologies for better ones. However, I can gripe about MM ditching a product its CTO said a year prior would not die. Only to be replaced with an inferior product. You know Ben Forta told me point blank at the Dreamweaver gripe session that advanced cold fusion developers are the minority, and they have to support the majority to be a successful company (hence WYSIWYG Dreamweaver bumps Homestie). Everyone is in it for the money. Don't spite one company and praise another when they share the same goals and faults. Bottom line is that 20 years ago I could have started as a C developer. And I could still be one today. Maybe my syntax may change a bit over the years, C - C++ - C#, but at least I'll still have marketable skills 20 years later. That is security. I just have this feeling that macromedia will sell me down the river if it can make them a profit. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:51 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? MSFT offers developers security? You mean like the VB developers they abandoned to launch VB.NET. Or the C++ developers they abandoned for C#. Then of course there is the various technologies they have abandoned in favor of something newer that does the same thing only differently and incompatible with the last like DAO, RDO, and COM. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:44 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? You can sit here and complain that MS is the bad guy, but they are not the company you have put your faith in. I know I have the unpopular view on this list as anti-MM, but I can tell you that if MS owned Flash, you wouldn't have to worry about it being sold again. Same goes for Cold Fusion. You could rest assured that the technology and education you put into MS will still be viable in 20 years. Which is something only a fool would say about Cold Fusion or Flash which are both still in their relative adolescence. Quite frankly, MS offers developers security. Something that MM and Allaire have failed quite miserably at (IMO). Rest assured though, we will probably not fall to the evil empire. If acquiring MM is a bid to diminish J2EE, I would expect IBM or Sun to offer a merger to counter an MS acquisition. After all, they both seemed to have invested a great deal in Cold Fusion and its J2ee developers. Although I still tell every CF developer I meet to learn a new language. Bottom line is that a broader skill set is never a detriment. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:22 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? nah - no pitying required :) So how would selling your MS shares after MM was acquired not be reinforcing your opinion below? You would both be voicing your disapproval to MS and be profiting from it. Seems silly as an investor to voice your opinion before hand based on internet speculation from the Register. Adam. -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing unless there is an amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in companies where I like their business practices, think they have good products, and approve of how they treat their staff. Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in the end how you run your business is how you wind up being treated - in this world or the next. I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, and I think they are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but that is all they do. Plus I sleep *really* well. ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put value on. (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you
RE: MS CF? (getting OT)
Just say that the next time someone starts complaining about your comments. M -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:01 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? (getting OT) We sold off our equity positions in 2000 and moved the money into bond funds. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
Re: MS CF?
Because it's the Register, and they like to make up stuff :) - Original Message - From: Bruce Sorge [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:11 pm Subject: Re: MS CF? Here is a question. Why is it that no other news outlet is reporting this? I mean, I go to the following sites, and these are the only stories I can find that mention M$ and MM in the same story: CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/industry/09/26/microsoft.flash.idg/index.html MSNBC: Nothing Bloomberg: Nothing Forbes: Nothing Macromedia: Nothing M$: Nothing I could go on, but I think you all get the point. Why is it that The Register is allowed to break with this news, then all of the other morereputable sources out there have nothing, and the one that does touts the relationship that MM and M$ have had. I say we all stop with The Sky Is Falling crap, move this to cf-community, and get back to taking about substantiated facts rather than hollow rumors. - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:50 PM Subject: RE: MS CF? MSFT offers developers security? You mean like the VB developers they abandoned to launch VB.NET. Or the C++ developers they abandoned for C#. Then of course there is the various technologies they have abandoned in favor of something newer that does the same thing only differently and incompatible with the last like DAO, RDO, and COM. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:44 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? You can sit here and complain that MS is the bad guy, but they are not the company you have put your faith in. I know I have the unpopular view on this list as anti-MM, but I can tell you that if MS owned Flash, you wouldn't have to worry about it being sold again. Same goes for Cold Fusion. You could rest assured that the technology and education you put into MS will still be viable in 20 years. Which is something only a fool would say about Cold Fusion or Flash which are both still in their relative adolescence. Quite frankly, MS offers developers security. Something that MM and Allaire have failed quite miserably at (IMO). Rest assured though, we will probably not fall to the evil empire. If acquiring MM is a bid to diminish J2EE, I would expect IBM or Sun to offer a merger to counter an MS acquisition. After all, they both seemed to have invested a great deal in Cold Fusion and its J2ee developers. Although I still tell every CF developer I meet to learn a new language. Bottom line is that a broader skill set is never a detriment. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:22 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? nah - no pitying required :) So how would selling your MS shares after MM was acquired not be reinforcing your opinion below? You would both be voicing your disapproval to MS and be profiting from it. Seems silly as an investor to voice your opinion before hand based on internet speculation from the Register. Adam. -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing unless there is an amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in companies where I like their business practices, think they have good products, and approve of how they treat their staff. Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in the end how you run your business is how you wind up being treated - in this world or the next. I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, and I think they are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but that is all they do. Plus I sleep *really* well. ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put value on. (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you) Rob -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but wouldn't you make out well if you were suddenly in possession of $54 MS stock in exchange for your $11 MM shares? -Original Message- From
RE: MS CF?
InfoWorld mentions it (http://www.infoworld.com/articles/op/xml/02/12/16/021216opcringely.xml) . Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Bruce Sorge [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:12 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: MS CF? Here is a question. Why is it that no other news outlet is reporting this? I mean, I go to the following sites, and these are the only stories I can find that mention M$ and MM in the same story: CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/industry/09/26/microsoft.flash.idg/index.ht ml MSNBC: Nothing Bloomberg: Nothing Forbes: Nothing Macromedia: Nothing M$: Nothing I could go on, but I think you all get the point. Why is it that The Register is allowed to break with this news, then all of the other more reputable sources out there have nothing, and the one that does touts the relationship that MM and M$ have had. I say we all stop with The Sky Is Falling crap, move this to cf-community, and get back to taking about substantiated facts rather than hollow rumors. - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:50 PM Subject: RE: MS CF? MSFT offers developers security? You mean like the VB developers they abandoned to launch VB.NET. Or the C++ developers they abandoned for C#. Then of course there is the various technologies they have abandoned in favor of something newer that does the same thing only differently and incompatible with the last like DAO, RDO, and COM. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:44 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? You can sit here and complain that MS is the bad guy, but they are not the company you have put your faith in. I know I have the unpopular view on this list as anti-MM, but I can tell you that if MS owned Flash, you wouldn't have to worry about it being sold again. Same goes for Cold Fusion. You could rest assured that the technology and education you put into MS will still be viable in 20 years. Which is something only a fool would say about Cold Fusion or Flash which are both still in their relative adolescence. Quite frankly, MS offers developers security. Something that MM and Allaire have failed quite miserably at (IMO). Rest assured though, we will probably not fall to the evil empire. If acquiring MM is a bid to diminish J2EE, I would expect IBM or Sun to offer a merger to counter an MS acquisition. After all, they both seemed to have invested a great deal in Cold Fusion and its J2ee developers. Although I still tell every CF developer I meet to learn a new language. Bottom line is that a broader skill set is never a detriment. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:22 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? nah - no pitying required :) So how would selling your MS shares after MM was acquired not be reinforcing your opinion below? You would both be voicing your disapproval to MS and be profiting from it. Seems silly as an investor to voice your opinion before hand based on internet speculation from the Register. Adam. -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing unless there is an amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in companies where I like their business practices, think they have good products, and approve of how they treat their staff. Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in the end how you run your business is how you wind up being treated - in this world or the next. I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, and I think they are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but that is all they do. Plus I sleep *really* well. ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put value on. (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you) Rob -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but wouldn't you make out well if you were
RE: MS CF?
VB developers who were abandoned? I felt no more abandoned by .NET than I did with CFMX. It's just a progression. It's an evolution. I mean CF5 to CFMX was a much bigger gap and the progression from VB to VB.NET. You act as if VB and C++ don't exist. Not too mention C# is not a replacement for C++. You may be one of the few VB developers who doesn't feel abandoned. And BTW, MSFT is marketing C# as a replacement for C++. Further, are you spiting C# for giving you a language and CRLs to compile your code to nearly NEwhere? Hate to break it to you, but a lot of people have wanted a language like that for a long time. I am not spiting anything or anyone. Just pointing out that MSFT doesn't give developers security. You can mention DAO and RDO fairly. As well as I can mention Generator and Homesite. Which were products, NOT technologies. You can't blame MS for abandoning older technologies for better ones. However, I can gripe about MM ditching a product its CTO said a year prior would not die. Only to be replaced with an inferior product. You know Ben Forta told me point blank at the Dreamweaver gripe session that advanced cold fusion developers are the minority, and they have to support the majority to be a successful company (hence WYSIWYG Dreamweaver bumps Homestie). Everyone is in it for the money. Don't spite one company and praise another when they share the same goals and faults. I didn't spite MSFT and praise Macromedia. Bottom line is that 20 years ago I could have started as a C developer. And I could still be one today. Maybe my syntax may change a bit over the years, C - C++ - C#, but at least I'll still have marketable skills 20 years later. That is security. I just have this feeling that macromedia will sell me down the river if it can make them a profit. I highly doubt that above statement is true. C, C++, and C# are FUNDAMENTALLY different languages. C is a procedural language, C++ is an object-oriented language, and C# is an object-oriented garbage collected virtual machine based language. -Matt ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: MS CF?
Matt, C is a procedural language, C++ is an object-oriented language, and C# is an object-oriented garbage collected virtual machine based language. I wouldn't call cf5 and cfMX the same due to CFCs and its object oriented slant on its previous fundamentals. Not too mention they compile to completely different code, but for the sake of argument we say they are the same, based on syntax. Will I be able to develop with the CF syntax in 20 years? I fear not. Will I be able to develop with a C syntax of some sort in 20 years? Most likely. I know we're getting really far off topic, but I don't subscribe to community. But I do have one question? Exactly why is MS the evil empire again? Do you think there is a correlation between how MS is viewed in capitalism and how the US is viewed in international politics? It just seems like everyone wants to take pot-shots at the guys on top. Even though these supposed empires do more good for everyone as a whole, than the voices who condemn them. But whatever is whatever. In the grand scheme of things we have no control over the future, so why bicker about it? Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:36 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? VB developers who were abandoned? I felt no more abandoned by .NET than I did with CFMX. It's just a progression. It's an evolution. I mean CF5 to CFMX was a much bigger gap and the progression from VB to VB.NET. You act as if VB and C++ don't exist. Not too mention C# is not a replacement for C++. You may be one of the few VB developers who doesn't feel abandoned. And BTW, MSFT is marketing C# as a replacement for C++. Further, are you spiting C# for giving you a language and CRLs to compile your code to nearly NEwhere? Hate to break it to you, but a lot of people have wanted a language like that for a long time. I am not spiting anything or anyone. Just pointing out that MSFT doesn't give developers security. You can mention DAO and RDO fairly. As well as I can mention Generator and Homesite. Which were products, NOT technologies. You can't blame MS for abandoning older technologies for better ones. However, I can gripe about MM ditching a product its CTO said a year prior would not die. Only to be replaced with an inferior product. You know Ben Forta told me point blank at the Dreamweaver gripe session that advanced cold fusion developers are the minority, and they have to support the majority to be a successful company (hence WYSIWYG Dreamweaver bumps Homestie). Everyone is in it for the money. Don't spite one company and praise another when they share the same goals and faults. I didn't spite MSFT and praise Macromedia. Bottom line is that 20 years ago I could have started as a C developer. And I could still be one today. Maybe my syntax may change a bit over the years, C - C++ - C#, but at least I'll still have marketable skills 20 years later. That is security. I just have this feeling that macromedia will sell me down the river if it can make them a profit. I highly doubt that above statement is true. C, C++, and C# are FUNDAMENTALLY different languages. C is a procedural language, C++ is an object-oriented language, and C# is an object-oriented garbage collected virtual machine based language. -Matt ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: MS CF?
Kinda.. That is unless they simply decided to scrap it in favor of the next best thing since sliced bread in which case it'd be dead forever. Of course, you could always go back to school.. ;) | You can sit here and complain that MS is the bad guy, but | they are not the company you have put your faith in. I know I | have the unpopular view on this list as anti-MM, but I can | tell you that if MS owned Flash, you wouldn't have to worry | about it being sold again. Same goes for Cold Fusion. You | could rest assured that the technology and education you put | into MS will still be viable in 20 years. Which is something | only a fool would say about Cold Fusion or Flash which are | both still in their relative adolescence. Don't agree. MM's still here. CF is still here. Flash is still here. We're all still working with languages that are both supported and growing. Simply don't agree. | Quite frankly, MS offers developers security. Something that | MM and Allaire have failed quite miserably at (IMO). Agreed. That would be logical. Anyone taking bets? Mine's on Apple. ducking - and no I don't use MACs | Rest assured though, we will probably not fall to the evil | empire. If acquiring MM is a bid to diminish J2EE, I would | expect IBM or Sun to offer a merger to counter an MS | acquisition. After all, they both seemed to have invested a | great deal in Cold Fusion and its J2ee developers. Totally agree. | Although I still tell every CF developer I meet to learn a | new language. Bottom line is that a broader skill set is | never a detriment. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
RE: MS CF? (getting OT)
Heh.. He's got a point. | -Original Message- | From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] | Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:02 AM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: MS CF? (getting OT) | | | A final note - then I'll stop provoking - I offer two pieces | of advice: | | 1) read the Millionaire next door | 2) When dealing in investing, be wearing of trusting someone | who would sink $60,000 - $80,000 on a depreciating asset (their car). | | :) | | You guys are fun! | | Rob | | ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: MS CF?
LOL! | I can see it now | DreamPage or FrontWeaver | can u imagine what would happen to DWMX if it fell into MS | hands??? Talk about security break down | ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: MS CF?
Yup.. Total agree. | -Original Message- | From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] | Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 10:51 AM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: MS CF? | | | MSFT offers developers security? You mean like the VB | developers they abandoned to launch VB.NET. Or the C++ | developers they abandoned for C#. Then of course there is the | various technologies they have abandoned in favor of | something newer that does the same thing only differently and | incompatible with the last like DAO, RDO, and COM. | | Matt Liotta | President CEO | Montara Software, Inc. | http://www.montarasoftware.com/ | 888-408-0900 x901 | | -Original Message- | From: Adrocknaphobia Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] | Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:44 PM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: MS CF? | | You can sit here and complain that MS is the bad guy, but | they are not | the company you have put your faith in. I know I have the unpopular | view | on this list as anti-MM, but I can tell you that if MS owned Flash, | you | wouldn't have to worry about it being sold again. Same goes | for Cold | Fusion. You could rest assured that the technology and education you | put | into MS will still be viable in 20 years. Which is something only a | fool | would say about Cold Fusion or Flash which are both still in their | relative adolescence. | | Quite frankly, MS offers developers security. Something that MM and | Allaire have failed quite miserably at (IMO). | | Rest assured though, we will probably not fall to the evil | empire. If | acquiring MM is a bid to diminish J2EE, I would expect IBM | or Sun to | offer a merger to counter an MS acquisition. After all, they both | seemed | to have invested a great deal in Cold Fusion and its J2ee | developers. | | Although I still tell every CF developer I meet to learn a new | language. | Bottom line is that a broader skill set is never a detriment. | | Adam Wayne Lehman | Web Systems Developer | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health | Distance Education Division | | | -Original Message- | From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] | Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:22 PM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: MS CF? | | nah - no pitying required :) | | So how would selling your MS shares after MM was acquired not be | reinforcing your opinion below? You would both be voicing your | disapproval to MS | and | be | profiting from it. Seems silly as an investor to voice your opinion | before hand based on internet speculation from the Register. | | Adam. | | | | | -Original Message- | From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] | Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:58 AM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: MS CF? | | | Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing | unless there | is an amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in | companies where I | like their | business practices, think they have good products, and | approve of how they | treat their staff. | | Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in | the end how | you run your business is how you wind up being treated - in this | world or the next. | | I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, | and I think | they are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but | that is all they | do. | | Plus I sleep *really* well. | | ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put | value on. | | (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you) | Rob | | -Original Message- | From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] | Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:39 AM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: MS CF? | | | Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but | wouldn't you | make out well if you were suddenly in possession of $54 | MS stock in | exchange for your | $11 MM shares? | | |-Original Message- |From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] |Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:32 AM |To: CF-Talk |Subject: RE: MS CF? | | |Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) | |Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! | |Rob | |-Original Message- |From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) |[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] |Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:04 AM |To: CF-Talk |Subject: RE: MS CF? | | |its not | |-Original Message- |From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] |Sent: 23 December 2002 17:07 |To: CF-Talk |Subject: RE: MS CF? | | |Please tell me this isn't true. | |Rob | |http://treebeard.sourceforge.net | http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net |Scientia Est Potentia | | |-Original Message- |From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] |Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM
RE: MS CF?
WOW! Was it THAT low? I didn't look at that. Hmm... scratchingheadandtakingbackstockbuyingthoughts | -Original Message- | From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] | Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 10:46 AM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: MS CF? | | | Indeed. While I may like Macromedia products, people, | business practices, etc; I won't be buying any of their stock | because it is a horrible investment right now. Soon all | publicly traded companies will be forced to expense their | stock options. When Macromedia is forced to expense their | stock options their stock is going to drop like a rock. | Macromedia's fiscal 2002 options expense was a whopping $1.57 | per share. And keep in mind that the company is expected to | earn on a pro forma basis only $0.29 in fiscal 2003. | | Matt Liotta | President CEO | Montara Software, Inc. | http://www.montarasoftware.com/ | 888-408-0900 x901 | | -Original Message- | From: Luce, Greg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] | Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:14 PM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: MS CF? | | The Stock Market is all about money. That's the first rule of | investing. | Buying or selling stocks based on any other ideas is just | silly. Good | luck | with that. | | Greg | -Original Message- | From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] | Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:58 PM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: MS CF? | | | Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing | unless there is | an | amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in companies where I like | their | business practices, think they have good products, and | approve of how | they | treat their staff. | | Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in the end how | you | run | your business is how you wind up being treated - in this | world or the | next. | | I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, and I think | they | are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but | that is all | they | do. | | Plus I sleep *really* well. | | ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put | value | on. | | (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you) | Rob | | -Original Message- | From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] | Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:39 AM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: MS CF? | | | Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but wouldn't you | make | out | well if you were suddenly in possession of $54 MS stock in exchange | for | your | $11 MM shares? | | | -Original Message- | From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] | Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:32 AM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: MS CF? | | | Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) | | Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! | | Rob | | -Original Message- | From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] | Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:04 AM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: MS CF? | | | its not | | -Original Message- | From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] | Sent: 23 December 2002 17:07 | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: MS CF? | | | Please tell me this isn't true. | | Rob | | http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net | Scientia Est Potentia | | -Original Message- | From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] | Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: MS CF? | | | http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html | | | | | | | | | | | | ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: MS CF?
Exactly why is MS the evil empire again? MS is not the evil empire. It is a company with business practices that are unethical at best. I have seen more good ideas embraced and extended to death, then I care to admit. I got into computers because I love computers. I love to write code - to make killer apps that no one has seen. Not to crush the competition by releasing an inferior product in to my monopolistic and dumbed down OS. I think of myself as an artist (sometimes my code is good sometimes bad), and Microsoft as the painter of those black light Elvis paintings. Do you think there is a correlation between how MS is viewed in capitalism and how the US is viewed in international politics? I hope not. It just seems like everyone wants to take pot-shots at the guys on top. That is an old grip and untrue. Look at Microsoft's record - you can not be that blind. Even though these supposed empires do more good for everyone as a whole, than the voices who condemn them. I disagree. MS has done nothing for the computer industry except stifle creative design and thinking and instead replaced it with bad products and little choice - they throw people a bit of money and those people then sing MS praises. Computers *would* have wound up on every desktop in America without Microsoft. If I recall correctly MS doesn't even employ many people they just do I lot of contract work. happy holidays list, Rob -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:29 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Matt, C is a procedural language, C++ is an object-oriented language, and C# is an object-oriented garbage collected virtual machine based language. I wouldn't call cf5 and cfMX the same due to CFCs and its object oriented slant on its previous fundamentals. Not too mention they compile to completely different code, but for the sake of argument we say they are the same, based on syntax. Will I be able to develop with the CF syntax in 20 years? I fear not. Will I be able to develop with a C syntax of some sort in 20 years? Most likely. I know we're getting really far off topic, but I don't subscribe to community. But I do have one question? Exactly why is MS the evil empire again? Do you think there is a correlation between how MS is viewed in capitalism and how the US is viewed in international politics? It just seems like everyone wants to take pot-shots at the guys on top. Even though these supposed empires do more good for everyone as a whole, than the voices who condemn them. But whatever is whatever. In the grand scheme of things we have no control over the future, so why bicker about it? Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Matt Liotta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:36 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? VB developers who were abandoned? I felt no more abandoned by .NET than I did with CFMX. It's just a progression. It's an evolution. I mean CF5 to CFMX was a much bigger gap and the progression from VB to VB.NET. You act as if VB and C++ don't exist. Not too mention C# is not a replacement for C++. You may be one of the few VB developers who doesn't feel abandoned. And BTW, MSFT is marketing C# as a replacement for C++. Further, are you spiting C# for giving you a language and CRLs to compile your code to nearly NEwhere? Hate to break it to you, but a lot of people have wanted a language like that for a long time. I am not spiting anything or anyone. Just pointing out that MSFT doesn't give developers security. You can mention DAO and RDO fairly. As well as I can mention Generator and Homesite. Which were products, NOT technologies. You can't blame MS for abandoning older technologies for better ones. However, I can gripe about MM ditching a product its CTO said a year prior would not die. Only to be replaced with an inferior product. You know Ben Forta told me point blank at the Dreamweaver gripe session that advanced cold fusion developers are the minority, and they have to support the majority to be a successful company (hence WYSIWYG Dreamweaver bumps Homestie). Everyone is in it for the money. Don't spite one company and praise another when they share the same goals and faults. I didn't spite MSFT and praise Macromedia. Bottom line is that 20 years ago I could have started as a C developer. And I could still be one today. Maybe my syntax may change a bit over the years, C - C++ - C#, but at least I'll still have marketable skills 20 years later. That is security. I just have this feeling that macromedia will sell me down the river if it can make them a profit. I highly doubt that above statement is true. C, C++, and C# are FUNDAMENTALLY different languages. C is a procedural language, C++ is an object-oriented language, and C# is an object-oriented garbage
Re: MS CF?
I hate to put my .02 in on OT, but... MS didn't abondon VB or C++ programmers with .NET. Yes, they changed VB to more closely resemble an OOP language (still needs work). C++ didn't change, Visual C++ changed. There is a strong difference. Language syntax and rules and what-have-you are still the same, it's the interaction with MS apps that are different. .NET is an expansion (and actually a damn fine one) of the existing supported technologies. C# is a new language all together. Change is inevetible and necessary for the growth and innovation of our industry. Quitcherbitchin'... Cutter Matt Liotta wrote: MSFT offers developers security? You mean like the VB developers they abandoned to launch VB.NET. Or the C++ developers they abandoned for C#. Then of course there is the various technologies they have abandoned in favor of something newer that does the same thing only differently and incompatible with the last like DAO, RDO, and COM. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:44 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? You can sit here and complain that MS is the bad guy, but they are not the company you have put your faith in. I know I have the unpopular view on this list as anti-MM, but I can tell you that if MS owned Flash, you wouldn't have to worry about it being sold again. Same goes for Cold Fusion. You could rest assured that the technology and education you put into MS will still be viable in 20 years. Which is something only a fool would say about Cold Fusion or Flash which are both still in their relative adolescence. Quite frankly, MS offers developers security. Something that MM and Allaire have failed quite miserably at (IMO). Rest assured though, we will probably not fall to the evil empire. If acquiring MM is a bid to diminish J2EE, I would expect IBM or Sun to offer a merger to counter an MS acquisition. After all, they both seemed to have invested a great deal in Cold Fusion and its J2ee developers. Although I still tell every CF developer I meet to learn a new language. Bottom line is that a broader skill set is never a detriment. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:22 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? nah - no pitying required :) So how would selling your MS shares after MM was acquired not be reinforcing your opinion below? You would both be voicing your disapproval to MS and be profiting from it. Seems silly as an investor to voice your opinion before hand based on internet speculation from the Register. Adam. -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing unless there is an amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in companies where I like their business practices, think they have good products, and approve of how they treat their staff. Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in the end how you run your business is how you wind up being treated - in this world or the next. I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, and I think they are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but that is all they do. Plus I sleep *really* well. ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put value on. (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you) Rob -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but wouldn't you make out well if you were suddenly in possession of $54 MS stock in exchange for your $11 MM shares? -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! Rob -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? its not -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 17:07 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Please tell me this isn't true. Rob http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net Scientia Est Potentia -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html
Re: MS CF?
That which is least secure is that which is a target... Cutter Dave Lyons wrote: Developer security You mean like they did with ASP? Oh, wait, they stopped development of that... And how long before asp.net gets scrapped for something new And I doubt 20 years from now you can still use ASP I can see it now DreamPage or FrontWeaver can u imagine what would happen to DWMX if it fell into MS hands??? Talk about security break down And all this so MS can get more windows servers out there, they have a lot to prove first. Remember the saying: Money can buy a lot of things in this world, just not a secure windows server Dave -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:44 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? You can sit here and complain that MS is the bad guy, but they are not the company you have put your faith in. I know I have the unpopular view on this list as anti-MM, but I can tell you that if MS owned Flash, you wouldn't have to worry about it being sold again. Same goes for Cold Fusion. You could rest assured that the technology and education you put into MS will still be viable in 20 years. Which is something only a fool would say about Cold Fusion or Flash which are both still in their relative adolescence. Quite frankly, MS offers developers security. Something that MM and Allaire have failed quite miserably at (IMO). Rest assured though, we will probably not fall to the evil empire. If acquiring MM is a bid to diminish J2EE, I would expect IBM or Sun to offer a merger to counter an MS acquisition. After all, they both seemed to have invested a great deal in Cold Fusion and its J2ee developers. Although I still tell every CF developer I meet to learn a new language. Bottom line is that a broader skill set is never a detriment. Adam Wayne Lehman Web Systems Developer Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health Distance Education Division -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 1:22 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? nah - no pitying required :) So how would selling your MS shares after MM was acquired not be reinforcing your opinion below? You would both be voicing your disapproval to MS and be profiting from it. Seems silly as an investor to voice your opinion before hand based on internet speculation from the Register. Adam. -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Well, welcome to America where you vote means nothing unless there is an amount of money tied to it. I buy stocks in companies where I like their business practices, think they have good products, and approve of how they treat their staff. Sometimes I loose money, often I make money. Because in the end how you run your business is how you wind up being treated - in this world or the next. I disapprove of a lot of Microsoft's business practices, and I think they are an ethically bad company. They make money - yes - but that is all they do. Plus I sleep *really* well. ALL IMHO as it is my funny green pieces of paper that we have put value on. (If you think it's all about the money - I pity you) Rob -Original Message- From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:39 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Why would you sell it? I'm no Wall St. slickster, but wouldn't you make out well if you were suddenly in possession of $54 MS stock in exchange for your $11 MM shares? -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 11:32 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Ha, from the Robertson-Ravo news source :) Guess now I *don't* have to sell my Macromedia stock, whew! Rob -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (RX) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 9:04 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? its not -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 December 2002 17:07 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? Please tell me this isn't true. Rob http://treebeard.sourceforge.net http://ruinworld.sourceforge.net Scientia Est Potentia -Original Message- From: Len Conrad [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 2:07 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF? http://theregister.co.uk/content/4/28667.html ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: MS CF?
XX##X* *X#X X ***##X # # ## *### X###X *X ## ##X *# #X* *# #*# # X X **XX#XX#X # **XXX***#X # ***X### *X *# *X##X *X X# *** * *###XX # *# *X###X* *###XX #* XX *###* *X X#X###**XX** X X# *###X** ** # *# X#X # # *# #X X# #X X# *#X###*X* X#**X* * ## * * X##X* * #X *X* ** *X* X X### XX*X###*** X### ###X* *X###* #X X#X *X#** XX*X #X* ** ***XX** X ##* *** *** * ### *** *XX* *# ### *X**#X ### *#** ##### **X *##*X## * *X#* X## *X *## ** *## **#**X### ## *X***XX* ## * X** *XX## *X##** *X* *## X* ** ** **# X## ### *X *#* ### X###* * *#X ### X# * ### ### X## * ###* *### * X ###X ** #X * **### # *X **# ###X X* ## ###X X* ## -Original Message- From: Rob Rohan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 3:54 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF? .. I think of myself as an artist (sometimes my code is good sometimes bad), and Microsoft as the painter of those black light Elvis paintings. .. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: MS CF?
I hate to put my .02 in on OT, but... MS didn't abondon VB or C++ programmers with .NET. Yes, they changed VB to more closely resemble an OOP language (still needs work). Any changed some of the syntax and much of the semantics in the process. VB6 and VB.NET are light years apart. Survey shows: VB developers feel abandoned. C++ didn't change, Visual C++ changed. There is a strong difference. Language syntax and rules and what-have-you are still the same, it's the interaction with MS apps that are different. Maybe you didn't notice, but MSFT now expects C++ developers to either use managed C++ or C#. Survey shows: C++ developers feel abandoned. .NET is an expansion (and actually a damn fine one) of the existing supported technologies. C# is a new language all together. NET isn't any extension of any existing technologies; it is something new entirely. Change is inevetible and necessary for the growth and innovation of our industry. Quitcherbitchin'... If you read the thread you would have noticed that I was only disagreeing with the assertion that MSFT offers developers security. I offered no position as to whether change is good or bad. -Matt ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: MS CF?
Ha Ha, that is the coolest thing I have seen in a long time :D Rob ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
MS CF AND JAVA
Hey, do any of you guys know exactly what is going on right now with Microsoft and SUN. I heard microsoft will completely stop supporting SUN Java after 2004, as they are developing their own VM not compatible with SUN's. Now maybe some might think this is a question for Community, but I want to get CFTalks point of view here. We are currently making the transition to OO with CFMX (which I know is not true OO), but more importantly java. I'm not not worried or afraid of change, but it would be nice to know if we are going to have to make a move to Linux for Web technologies in the future if we currently want to work with these tools and take ourselves forward with them. Which leads me to another question which is on another note, I've started developing a while back in VB COM+ dll's so I could speed up certain tasks where CF is sluggish, my question is I'm slightly confused about the main purpose of Microsoft Message Queing, what I do understand is that it allows two or more machines work together out of sinc, but can it be used as a threading mechanism for COM compoents on a server only. From what I have seen MSMQ assigns a queing mechanism to both the client app and server app, so where does it fit in with HTTP where the client will not have a designated que. Thanks in advance, J ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: MS CF AND JAVA
Hi John, Under a court settlement with SUN, MS can't use java2 technology (1.3 and above + I think) in their own VM, as far as I recollect, MS dumped supporting java directly in their OS's shortly after, although you can still get a MS VM if you want, I believe it's akin to Sun's jre 1.2 (java1, baffling isn't it?). I wouldn't worry about being able to run java on a windows platform in the future, MS wouldn't shoot itself in the foot by deliberately messing up java in windows any further, they would lose an awful lot of server customers. And I can't see sun and others stopping production of their own windows vm's. If, however you do use java classes rather than VB dll's, then your sites should be much more portable, and if you decide to move to unix / linux, it should be trivial matter. I would have thought that java classes will be much faster at certain things too. As far as MSMQ goes, no idea ;-) Craig. -Original Message- From: John McCosker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 10:48 To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF AND JAVA Hey, do any of you guys know exactly what is going on right now with Microsoft and SUN. I heard microsoft will completely stop supporting SUN Java after 2004, as they are developing their own VM not compatible with SUN's. Now maybe some might think this is a question for Community, but I want to get CFTalks point of view here. We are currently making the transition to OO with CFMX (which I know is not true OO), but more importantly java. I'm not not worried or afraid of change, but it would be nice to know if we are going to have to make a move to Linux for Web technologies in the future if we currently want to work with these tools and take ourselves forward with them. Which leads me to another question which is on another note, I've started developing a while back in VB COM+ dll's so I could speed up certain tasks where CF is sluggish, my question is I'm slightly confused about the main purpose of Microsoft Message Queing, what I do understand is that it allows two or more machines work together out of sinc, but can it be used as a threading mechanism for COM compoents on a server only. From what I have seen MSMQ assigns a queing mechanism to both the client app and server app, so where does it fit in with HTTP where the client will not have a designated que. Thanks in advance, J ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: MS CF AND JAVA
Thanks Craig, //however you do use java classes rather than VB dll's, yea been thinking about that, the VB implementation started at the beginning of the year with CF 5.0 but since using CFMX and espeacially reading the documentation its java, java, java. Certainly from what I,ve read java and XML seems to be the dogs bollocks, although I don't know too much about java and com, I suppose thats where JEB comes in. So 2 years down the line and nothing changes with regards to MS and SUN (which is highly unlikly as you say) working with java2 (or eventually higher) leaves you incompatible to plug in to MS if they are only supporting up to 1.2. Yip it is confusing, but damn interesting at the same time I think. -Original Message- From: Craig Dudley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 11:24 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA Hi John, Under a court settlement with SUN, MS can't use java2 technology (1.3 and above + I think) in their own VM, as far as I recollect, MS dumped supporting java directly in their OS's shortly after, although you can still get a MS VM if you want, I believe it's akin to Sun's jre 1.2 (java1, baffling isn't it?). I wouldn't worry about being able to run java on a windows platform in the future, MS wouldn't shoot itself in the foot by deliberately messing up java in windows any further, they would lose an awful lot of server customers. And I can't see sun and others stopping production of their own windows vm's. If, however you do use java classes rather than VB dll's, then your sites should be much more portable, and if you decide to move to unix / linux, it should be trivial matter. I would have thought that java classes will be much faster at certain things too. As far as MSMQ goes, no idea ;-) Craig. -Original Message- From: John McCosker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 10:48 To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF AND JAVA Hey, do any of you guys know exactly what is going on right now with Microsoft and SUN. I heard microsoft will completely stop supporting SUN Java after 2004, as they are developing their own VM not compatible with SUN's. Now maybe some might think this is a question for Community, but I want to get CFTalks point of view here. We are currently making the transition to OO with CFMX (which I know is not true OO), but more importantly java. I'm not not worried or afraid of change, but it would be nice to know if we are going to have to make a move to Linux for Web technologies in the future if we currently want to work with these tools and take ourselves forward with them. Which leads me to another question which is on another note, I've started developing a while back in VB COM+ dll's so I could speed up certain tasks where CF is sluggish, my question is I'm slightly confused about the main purpose of Microsoft Message Queing, what I do understand is that it allows two or more machines work together out of sinc, but can it be used as a threading mechanism for COM compoents on a server only. From what I have seen MSMQ assigns a queing mechanism to both the client app and server app, so where does it fit in with HTTP where the client will not have a designated que. Thanks in advance, J ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: MS CF AND JAVA
Nah, it won't leave you with any incompatibilities, simply download and install sun's jre's, don't even consider using an MS VM and you can't really go wrong. As far as COM goes, you can do pretty much anything that you can do with com with java; either JNI (Java Native Interface) or EJB (Enterprise Java Beans) should cover most things. Panic not, there won't be any major issues running cfmx and or java on a windows based servers in the near future. As far as version numbers go, the jre's are number differently to actual java. Up to jre 1.2 was just called Java, now 1.3 and above, Sun calls Java2. I may have those jre numbers wrong, but you get the picture. However, java is an entirely different animal to cf, converting across to 00 programming is 99% of the problem, it's a completely different thought process, the syntax is pretty simple tbh. I've been trying to learn java for a few months on and off, some days I feel I'm actually starting to get there, others I feel like I'm nowhere near. Anyway, have fun, java is certainly cool. Craig. -Original Message- From: John McCosker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 12:11 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA Thanks Craig, //however you do use java classes rather than VB dll's, yea been thinking about that, the VB implementation started at the beginning of the year with CF 5.0 but since using CFMX and espeacially reading the documentation its java, java, java. Certainly from what I,ve read java and XML seems to be the dogs bollocks, although I don't know too much about java and com, I suppose thats where JEB comes in. So 2 years down the line and nothing changes with regards to MS and SUN (which is highly unlikly as you say) working with java2 (or eventually higher) leaves you incompatible to plug in to MS if they are only supporting up to 1.2. Yip it is confusing, but damn interesting at the same time I think. -Original Message- From: Craig Dudley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 11:24 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA Hi John, Under a court settlement with SUN, MS can't use java2 technology (1.3 and above + I think) in their own VM, as far as I recollect, MS dumped supporting java directly in their OS's shortly after, although you can still get a MS VM if you want, I believe it's akin to Sun's jre 1.2 (java1, baffling isn't it?). I wouldn't worry about being able to run java on a windows platform in the future, MS wouldn't shoot itself in the foot by deliberately messing up java in windows any further, they would lose an awful lot of server customers. And I can't see sun and others stopping production of their own windows vm's. If, however you do use java classes rather than VB dll's, then your sites should be much more portable, and if you decide to move to unix / linux, it should be trivial matter. I would have thought that java classes will be much faster at certain things too. As far as MSMQ goes, no idea ;-) Craig. -Original Message- From: John McCosker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 10:48 To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF AND JAVA Hey, do any of you guys know exactly what is going on right now with Microsoft and SUN. I heard microsoft will completely stop supporting SUN Java after 2004, as they are developing their own VM not compatible with SUN's. Now maybe some might think this is a question for Community, but I want to get CFTalks point of view here. We are currently making the transition to OO with CFMX (which I know is not true OO), but more importantly java. I'm not not worried or afraid of change, but it would be nice to know if we are going to have to make a move to Linux for Web technologies in the future if we currently want to work with these tools and take ourselves forward with them. Which leads me to another question which is on another note, I've started developing a while back in VB COM+ dll's so I could speed up certain tasks where CF is sluggish, my question is I'm slightly confused about the main purpose of Microsoft Message Queing, what I do understand is that it allows two or more machines work together out of sinc, but can it be used as a threading mechanism for COM compoents on a server only. From what I have seen MSMQ assigns a queing mechanism to both the client app and server app, so where does it fit in with HTTP where the client will not have a designated que. Thanks in advance, J ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: MS CF AND JAVA
Its SUN or IBM etc who creates the JVM for wintel platforms. So the JVM is sitting on top of the WIn32 platform. The only way MS can break it, would be to break the Win32 API, which would break any other programs using that API (e.g. most programs) Theoretically MS chould phase out the Win32 API, get all the developers to use the .NET framework (with it's common runtime) then shift the API under it... breaking anything that runs directly on the api. So the JVM would have to run on the CLI that runs on microsofts secret API...which obviously would be an advantage to MS. Conspiracy Theory 101 WG -Original Message- From: John McCosker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 12:11 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA Thanks Craig, //however you do use java classes rather than VB dll's, yea been thinking about that, the VB implementation started at the beginning of the year with CF 5.0 but since using CFMX and espeacially reading the documentation its java, java, java. Certainly from what I,ve read java and XML seems to be the dogs bollocks, although I don't know too much about java and com, I suppose thats where JEB comes in. So 2 years down the line and nothing changes with regards to MS and SUN (which is highly unlikly as you say) working with java2 (or eventually higher) leaves you incompatible to plug in to MS if they are only supporting up to 1.2. Yip it is confusing, but damn interesting at the same time I think. -Original Message- From: Craig Dudley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 11:24 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA Hi John, Under a court settlement with SUN, MS can't use java2 technology (1.3 and above + I think) in their own VM, as far as I recollect, MS dumped supporting java directly in their OS's shortly after, although you can still get a MS VM if you want, I believe it's akin to Sun's jre 1.2 (java1, baffling isn't it?). I wouldn't worry about being able to run java on a windows platform in the future, MS wouldn't shoot itself in the foot by deliberately messing up java in windows any further, they would lose an awful lot of server customers. And I can't see sun and others stopping production of their own windows vm's. If, however you do use java classes rather than VB dll's, then your sites should be much more portable, and if you decide to move to unix / linux, it should be trivial matter. I would have thought that java classes will be much faster at certain things too. As far as MSMQ goes, no idea ;-) Craig. -Original Message- From: John McCosker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 10:48 To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF AND JAVA Hey, do any of you guys know exactly what is going on right now with Microsoft and SUN. I heard microsoft will completely stop supporting SUN Java after 2004, as they are developing their own VM not compatible with SUN's. Now maybe some might think this is a question for Community, but I want to get CFTalks point of view here. We are currently making the transition to OO with CFMX (which I know is not true OO), but more importantly java. I'm not not worried or afraid of change, but it would be nice to know if we are going to have to make a move to Linux for Web technologies in the future if we currently want to work with these tools and take ourselves forward with them. Which leads me to another question which is on another note, I've started developing a while back in VB COM+ dll's so I could speed up certain tasks where CF is sluggish, my question is I'm slightly confused about the main purpose of Microsoft Message Queing, what I do understand is that it allows two or more machines work together out of sinc, but can it be used as a threading mechanism for COM compoents on a server only. From what I have seen MSMQ assigns a queing mechanism to both the client app and server app, so where does it fit in with HTTP where the client will not have a designated que. Thanks in advance, J ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: MS CF AND JAVA
//I've been trying to //learn java for a few months on and off, some days I feel I'm actually //starting to get there, others I feel like I'm nowhere near. So Java is like golf, damn and I hate golf, Pleasure craig. -Original Message- From: Craig Dudley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 12:28 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA Nah, it won't leave you with any incompatibilities, simply download and install sun's jre's, don't even consider using an MS VM and you can't really go wrong. As far as COM goes, you can do pretty much anything that you can do with com with java; either JNI (Java Native Interface) or EJB (Enterprise Java Beans) should cover most things. Panic not, there won't be any major issues running cfmx and or java on a windows based servers in the near future. As far as version numbers go, the jre's are number differently to actual java. Up to jre 1.2 was just called Java, now 1.3 and above, Sun calls Java2. I may have those jre numbers wrong, but you get the picture. However, java is an entirely different animal to cf, converting across to 00 programming is 99% of the problem, it's a completely different thought process, the syntax is pretty simple tbh. I've been trying to learn java for a few months on and off, some days I feel I'm actually starting to get there, others I feel like I'm nowhere near. Anyway, have fun, java is certainly cool. Craig. -Original Message- From: John McCosker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 12:11 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA Thanks Craig, //however you do use java classes rather than VB dll's, yea been thinking about that, the VB implementation started at the beginning of the year with CF 5.0 but since using CFMX and espeacially reading the documentation its java, java, java. Certainly from what I,ve read java and XML seems to be the dogs bollocks, although I don't know too much about java and com, I suppose thats where JEB comes in. So 2 years down the line and nothing changes with regards to MS and SUN (which is highly unlikly as you say) working with java2 (or eventually higher) leaves you incompatible to plug in to MS if they are only supporting up to 1.2. Yip it is confusing, but damn interesting at the same time I think. -Original Message- From: Craig Dudley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 11:24 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA Hi John, Under a court settlement with SUN, MS can't use java2 technology (1.3 and above + I think) in their own VM, as far as I recollect, MS dumped supporting java directly in their OS's shortly after, although you can still get a MS VM if you want, I believe it's akin to Sun's jre 1.2 (java1, baffling isn't it?). I wouldn't worry about being able to run java on a windows platform in the future, MS wouldn't shoot itself in the foot by deliberately messing up java in windows any further, they would lose an awful lot of server customers. And I can't see sun and others stopping production of their own windows vm's. If, however you do use java classes rather than VB dll's, then your sites should be much more portable, and if you decide to move to unix / linux, it should be trivial matter. I would have thought that java classes will be much faster at certain things too. As far as MSMQ goes, no idea ;-) Craig. -Original Message- From: John McCosker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 10:48 To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF AND JAVA Hey, do any of you guys know exactly what is going on right now with Microsoft and SUN. I heard microsoft will completely stop supporting SUN Java after 2004, as they are developing their own VM not compatible with SUN's. Now maybe some might think this is a question for Community, but I want to get CFTalks point of view here. We are currently making the transition to OO with CFMX (which I know is not true OO), but more importantly java. I'm not not worried or afraid of change, but it would be nice to know if we are going to have to make a move to Linux for Web technologies in the future if we currently want to work with these tools and take ourselves forward with them. Which leads me to another question which is on another note, I've started developing a while back in VB COM+ dll's so I could speed up certain tasks where CF is sluggish, my question is I'm slightly confused about the main purpose of Microsoft Message Queing, what I do understand is that it allows two or more machines work together out of sinc, but can it be used as a threading mechanism for COM compoents on a server only. From what I have seen MSMQ assigns a queing mechanism to both the client app and server app, so where does it fit in with HTTP where the client will not have a designated que. Thanks in advance, J ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http
RE: MS CF AND JAVA
Lol, yes it is to me. -Original Message- From: John McCosker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 12:41 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA //I've been trying to //learn java for a few months on and off, some days I feel I'm actually //starting to get there, others I feel like I'm nowhere near. So Java is like golf, damn and I hate golf, Pleasure craig. -Original Message- From: Craig Dudley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 12:28 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA Nah, it won't leave you with any incompatibilities, simply download and install sun's jre's, don't even consider using an MS VM and you can't really go wrong. As far as COM goes, you can do pretty much anything that you can do with com with java; either JNI (Java Native Interface) or EJB (Enterprise Java Beans) should cover most things. Panic not, there won't be any major issues running cfmx and or java on a windows based servers in the near future. As far as version numbers go, the jre's are number differently to actual java. Up to jre 1.2 was just called Java, now 1.3 and above, Sun calls Java2. I may have those jre numbers wrong, but you get the picture. However, java is an entirely different animal to cf, converting across to 00 programming is 99% of the problem, it's a completely different thought process, the syntax is pretty simple tbh. I've been trying to learn java for a few months on and off, some days I feel I'm actually starting to get there, others I feel like I'm nowhere near. Anyway, have fun, java is certainly cool. Craig. -Original Message- From: John McCosker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 12:11 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA Thanks Craig, //however you do use java classes rather than VB dll's, yea been thinking about that, the VB implementation started at the beginning of the year with CF 5.0 but since using CFMX and espeacially reading the documentation its java, java, java. Certainly from what I,ve read java and XML seems to be the dogs bollocks, although I don't know too much about java and com, I suppose thats where JEB comes in. So 2 years down the line and nothing changes with regards to MS and SUN (which is highly unlikly as you say) working with java2 (or eventually higher) leaves you incompatible to plug in to MS if they are only supporting up to 1.2. Yip it is confusing, but damn interesting at the same time I think. -Original Message- From: Craig Dudley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 11:24 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA Hi John, Under a court settlement with SUN, MS can't use java2 technology (1.3 and above + I think) in their own VM, as far as I recollect, MS dumped supporting java directly in their OS's shortly after, although you can still get a MS VM if you want, I believe it's akin to Sun's jre 1.2 (java1, baffling isn't it?). I wouldn't worry about being able to run java on a windows platform in the future, MS wouldn't shoot itself in the foot by deliberately messing up java in windows any further, they would lose an awful lot of server customers. And I can't see sun and others stopping production of their own windows vm's. If, however you do use java classes rather than VB dll's, then your sites should be much more portable, and if you decide to move to unix / linux, it should be trivial matter. I would have thought that java classes will be much faster at certain things too. As far as MSMQ goes, no idea ;-) Craig. -Original Message- From: John McCosker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 10:48 To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF AND JAVA Hey, do any of you guys know exactly what is going on right now with Microsoft and SUN. I heard microsoft will completely stop supporting SUN Java after 2004, as they are developing their own VM not compatible with SUN's. Now maybe some might think this is a question for Community, but I want to get CFTalks point of view here. We are currently making the transition to OO with CFMX (which I know is not true OO), but more importantly java. I'm not not worried or afraid of change, but it would be nice to know if we are going to have to make a move to Linux for Web technologies in the future if we currently want to work with these tools and take ourselves forward with them. Which leads me to another question which is on another note, I've started developing a while back in VB COM+ dll's so I could speed up certain tasks where CF is sluggish, my question is I'm slightly confused about the main purpose of Microsoft Message Queing, what I do understand is that it allows two or more machines work together out of sinc, but can it be used as a threading mechanism for COM compoents on a server only. From what I have seen MSMQ assigns a queing mechanism to both the client app and server app, so where does it fit in with HTTP where the client will not have a designated que. Thanks in advance, J
RE: MS CF AND JAVA
You guys are all seriously confused. All MS is doing is *not* including an implementation of Java with their XP OS. So what? Download the Java Runtime Environment from Sun and install it. There, you have a full implementation of Java. It is up to *Sun* to support any Microsoft OSs with Java, not MS. -Original Message- From: John McCosker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 5:11 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA Thanks Craig, //however you do use java classes rather than VB dll's, yea been thinking about that, the VB implementation started at the beginning of the year with CF 5.0 but since using CFMX and espeacially reading the documentation its java, java, java. Certainly from what I,ve read java and XML seems to be the dogs bollocks, although I don't know too much about java and com, I suppose thats where JEB comes in. So 2 years down the line and nothing changes with regards to MS and SUN (which is highly unlikly as you say) working with java2 (or eventually higher) leaves you incompatible to plug in to MS if they are only supporting up to 1.2. Yip it is confusing, but damn interesting at the same time I think. -Original Message- From: Craig Dudley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 11:24 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA Hi John, Under a court settlement with SUN, MS can't use java2 technology (1.3 and above + I think) in their own VM, as far as I recollect, MS dumped supporting java directly in their OS's shortly after, although you can still get a MS VM if you want, I believe it's akin to Sun's jre 1.2 (java1, baffling isn't it?). I wouldn't worry about being able to run java on a windows platform in the future, MS wouldn't shoot itself in the foot by deliberately messing up java in windows any further, they would lose an awful lot of server customers. And I can't see sun and others stopping production of their own windows vm's. If, however you do use java classes rather than VB dll's, then your sites should be much more portable, and if you decide to move to unix / linux, it should be trivial matter. I would have thought that java classes will be much faster at certain things too. As far as MSMQ goes, no idea ;-) Craig. -Original Message- From: John McCosker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 10:48 To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF AND JAVA Hey, do any of you guys know exactly what is going on right now with Microsoft and SUN. I heard microsoft will completely stop supporting SUN Java after 2004, as they are developing their own VM not compatible with SUN's. Now maybe some might think this is a question for Community, but I want to get CFTalks point of view here. We are currently making the transition to OO with CFMX (which I know is not true OO), but more importantly java. I'm not not worried or afraid of change, but it would be nice to know if we are going to have to make a move to Linux for Web technologies in the future if we currently want to work with these tools and take ourselves forward with them. Which leads me to another question which is on another note, I've started developing a while back in VB COM+ dll's so I could speed up certain tasks where CF is sluggish, my question is I'm slightly confused about the main purpose of Microsoft Message Queing, what I do understand is that it allows two or more machines work together out of sinc, but can it be used as a threading mechanism for COM compoents on a server only. From what I have seen MSMQ assigns a queing mechanism to both the client app and server app, so where does it fit in with HTTP where the client will not have a designated que. Thanks in advance, J ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
RE: MS CF AND JAVA
//MS is doing is including an implementation of Java with their XP OS Thats right, XP is supporting the implementation of Java, my query was after 2004 all MS OS will not, due to a leagal battle with SUN and MS, which resulted in MS telling lies, lies, lies... Anyway, I'm just going to use my better judgement and steer towards the gorilla. -Original Message- From: Kwang Suh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 14:58 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA You guys are all seriously confused. All MS is doing is *not* including an implementation of Java with their XP OS. So what? Download the Java Runtime Environment from Sun and install it. There, you have a full implementation of Java. It is up to *Sun* to support any Microsoft OSs with Java, not MS. -Original Message- From: John McCosker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 5:11 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA Thanks Craig, //however you do use java classes rather than VB dll's, yea been thinking about that, the VB implementation started at the beginning of the year with CF 5.0 but since using CFMX and espeacially reading the documentation its java, java, java. Certainly from what I,ve read java and XML seems to be the dogs bollocks, although I don't know too much about java and com, I suppose thats where JEB comes in. So 2 years down the line and nothing changes with regards to MS and SUN (which is highly unlikly as you say) working with java2 (or eventually higher) leaves you incompatible to plug in to MS if they are only supporting up to 1.2. Yip it is confusing, but damn interesting at the same time I think. -Original Message- From: Craig Dudley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 11:24 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA Hi John, Under a court settlement with SUN, MS can't use java2 technology (1.3 and above + I think) in their own VM, as far as I recollect, MS dumped supporting java directly in their OS's shortly after, although you can still get a MS VM if you want, I believe it's akin to Sun's jre 1.2 (java1, baffling isn't it?). I wouldn't worry about being able to run java on a windows platform in the future, MS wouldn't shoot itself in the foot by deliberately messing up java in windows any further, they would lose an awful lot of server customers. And I can't see sun and others stopping production of their own windows vm's. If, however you do use java classes rather than VB dll's, then your sites should be much more portable, and if you decide to move to unix / linux, it should be trivial matter. I would have thought that java classes will be much faster at certain things too. As far as MSMQ goes, no idea ;-) Craig. -Original Message- From: John McCosker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 10:48 To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF AND JAVA Hey, do any of you guys know exactly what is going on right now with Microsoft and SUN. I heard microsoft will completely stop supporting SUN Java after 2004, as they are developing their own VM not compatible with SUN's. Now maybe some might think this is a question for Community, but I want to get CFTalks point of view here. We are currently making the transition to OO with CFMX (which I know is not true OO), but more importantly java. I'm not not worried or afraid of change, but it would be nice to know if we are going to have to make a move to Linux for Web technologies in the future if we currently want to work with these tools and take ourselves forward with them. Which leads me to another question which is on another note, I've started developing a while back in VB COM+ dll's so I could speed up certain tasks where CF is sluggish, my question is I'm slightly confused about the main purpose of Microsoft Message Queing, what I do understand is that it allows two or more machines work together out of sinc, but can it be used as a threading mechanism for COM compoents on a server only. From what I have seen MSMQ assigns a queing mechanism to both the client app and server app, so where does it fit in with HTTP where the client will not have a designated que. Thanks in advance, J ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
RE: MS CF AND JAVA
That's pretty much what I said, so how am I confused? -Original Message- From: Kwang Suh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 14:58 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA You guys are all seriously confused. All MS is doing is *not* including an implementation of Java with their XP OS. So what? Download the Java Runtime Environment from Sun and install it. There, you have a full implementation of Java. It is up to *Sun* to support any Microsoft OSs with Java, not MS. -Original Message- From: John McCosker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 5:11 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA Thanks Craig, //however you do use java classes rather than VB dll's, yea been thinking about that, the VB implementation started at the beginning of the year with CF 5.0 but since using CFMX and espeacially reading the documentation its java, java, java. Certainly from what I,ve read java and XML seems to be the dogs bollocks, although I don't know too much about java and com, I suppose thats where JEB comes in. So 2 years down the line and nothing changes with regards to MS and SUN (which is highly unlikly as you say) working with java2 (or eventually higher) leaves you incompatible to plug in to MS if they are only supporting up to 1.2. Yip it is confusing, but damn interesting at the same time I think. -Original Message- From: Craig Dudley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 11:24 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA Hi John, Under a court settlement with SUN, MS can't use java2 technology (1.3 and above + I think) in their own VM, as far as I recollect, MS dumped supporting java directly in their OS's shortly after, although you can still get a MS VM if you want, I believe it's akin to Sun's jre 1.2 (java1, baffling isn't it?). I wouldn't worry about being able to run java on a windows platform in the future, MS wouldn't shoot itself in the foot by deliberately messing up java in windows any further, they would lose an awful lot of server customers. And I can't see sun and others stopping production of their own windows vm's. If, however you do use java classes rather than VB dll's, then your sites should be much more portable, and if you decide to move to unix / linux, it should be trivial matter. I would have thought that java classes will be much faster at certain things too. As far as MSMQ goes, no idea ;-) Craig. -Original Message- From: John McCosker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 10:48 To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF AND JAVA Hey, do any of you guys know exactly what is going on right now with Microsoft and SUN. I heard microsoft will completely stop supporting SUN Java after 2004, as they are developing their own VM not compatible with SUN's. Now maybe some might think this is a question for Community, but I want to get CFTalks point of view here. We are currently making the transition to OO with CFMX (which I know is not true OO), but more importantly java. I'm not not worried or afraid of change, but it would be nice to know if we are going to have to make a move to Linux for Web technologies in the future if we currently want to work with these tools and take ourselves forward with them. Which leads me to another question which is on another note, I've started developing a while back in VB COM+ dll's so I could speed up certain tasks where CF is sluggish, my question is I'm slightly confused about the main purpose of Microsoft Message Queing, what I do understand is that it allows two or more machines work together out of sinc, but can it be used as a threading mechanism for COM compoents on a server only. From what I have seen MSMQ assigns a queing mechanism to both the client app and server app, so where does it fit in with HTTP where the client will not have a designated que. Thanks in advance, J ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Re: MS CF AND JAVA
Kwang is correct regarding Sun's ability to provide a JVM. As long as Sun maintains JVMs for Windows, it will always be possible to run Java on Windows. The problem is that Microsoft stopped distributing a JVM with Windows XP, which means users have to download and install a third party JVM (like Sun's). There are a lot of users who either would not know to do this, or would not bother, but as a developer, you are likely to have that option for a long long time to come. BTW, there was a recent court ruling requiring Microsoft to start distributing a JVM with XP. Whether they do it or not remains to be seen. Cantrell Kwang Suh wrote: You guys are all seriously confused. All MS is doing is *not* including an implementation of Java with their XP OS. So what? Download the Java Runtime Environment from Sun and install it. There, you have a full implementation of Java. It is up to *Sun* to support any Microsoft OSs with Java, not MS. -Original Message- From: John McCosker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 5:11 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA Thanks Craig, //however you do use java classes rather than VB dll's, yea been thinking about that, the VB implementation started at the beginning of the year with CF 5.0 but since using CFMX and espeacially reading the documentation its java, java, java. Certainly from what I,ve read java and XML seems to be the dogs bollocks, although I don't know too much about java and com, I suppose thats where JEB comes in. So 2 years down the line and nothing changes with regards to MS and SUN (which is highly unlikly as you say) working with java2 (or eventually higher) leaves you incompatible to plug in to MS if they are only supporting up to 1.2. Yip it is confusing, but damn interesting at the same time I think. -Original Message- From: Craig Dudley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 11:24 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA Hi John, Under a court settlement with SUN, MS can't use java2 technology (1.3 and above + I think) in their own VM, as far as I recollect, MS dumped supporting java directly in their OS's shortly after, although you can still get a MS VM if you want, I believe it's akin to Sun's jre 1.2 (java1, baffling isn't it?). I wouldn't worry about being able to run java on a windows platform in the future, MS wouldn't shoot itself in the foot by deliberately messing up java in windows any further, they would lose an awful lot of server customers. And I can't see sun and others stopping production of their own windows vm's. If, however you do use java classes rather than VB dll's, then your sites should be much more portable, and if you decide to move to unix / linux, it should be trivial matter. I would have thought that java classes will be much faster at certain things too. As far as MSMQ goes, no idea ;-) Craig. -Original Message- From: John McCosker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 10:48 To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF AND JAVA Hey, do any of you guys know exactly what is going on right now with Microsoft and SUN. I heard microsoft will completely stop supporting SUN Java after 2004, as they are developing their own VM not compatible with SUN's. Now maybe some might think this is a question for Community, but I want to get CFTalks point of view here. We are currently making the transition to OO with CFMX (which I know is not true OO), but more importantly java. I'm not not worried or afraid of change, but it would be nice to know if we are going to have to make a move to Linux for Web technologies in the future if we currently want to work with these tools and take ourselves forward with them. Which leads me to another question which is on another note, I've started developing a while back in VB COM+ dll's so I could speed up certain tasks where CF is sluggish, my question is I'm slightly confused about the main purpose of Microsoft Message Queing, what I do understand is that it allows two or more machines work together out of sinc, but can it be used as a threading mechanism for COM compoents on a server only. From what I have seen MSMQ assigns a queing mechanism to both the client app and server app, so where does it fit in with HTTP where the client will not have a designated que. Thanks in advance, J ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
Re: RE: MS CF AND JAVA
Ok, you're not confused, I am :) - Original Message - From: Craig Dudley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, November 29, 2002 8:46 am Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA That's pretty much what I said, so how am I confused? -Original Message- From: Kwang Suh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 14:58 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA You guys are all seriously confused. All MS is doing is *not* including an implementation of Java with theirXP OS. So what? Download the Java Runtime Environment from Sun and install it. There, you have a full implementation of Java. It is up to *Sun* to support any Microsoft OSs with Java, not MS. -Original Message- From: John McCosker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 5:11 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA Thanks Craig, //however you do use java classes rather than VB dll's, yea been thinking about that, the VB implementation started at the beginning of the year with CF 5.0 but since using CFMX and espeacially reading the documentation its java, java, java. Certainly from what I,ve read java and XML seems to be the dogs bollocks, although I don't know too much about java and com, I suppose thats where JEB comes in. So 2 years down the line and nothing changes with regards to MS and SUN (which is highly unlikly as you say) working with java2 (or eventually higher) leaves you incompatible to plug in to MS if they are only supporting up to 1.2. Yip it is confusing, but damn interesting at the same time I think. -Original Message- From: Craig Dudley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 11:24 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: MS CF AND JAVA Hi John, Under a court settlement with SUN, MS can't use java2 technology (1.3 and above + I think) in their own VM, as far as I recollect, MS dumped supporting java directly in their OS's shortly after, although you can still get a MS VM if you want, I believe it's akin to Sun's jre 1.2 (java1, baffling isn't it?). I wouldn't worry about being able to run java on a windows platform in the future, MS wouldn't shoot itself in the foot by deliberately messing up java in windows any further, they would lose an awful lot of server customers. And I can't see sun and others stopping production of their own windows vm's. If, however you do use java classes rather than VB dll's, then your sites should be much more portable, and if you decide to move to unix/ linux, it should be trivial matter. I would have thought that java classes will be much faster at certain things too. As far as MSMQ goes, no idea ;-) Craig. -Original Message- From: John McCosker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 November 2002 10:48 To: CF-Talk Subject: MS CF AND JAVA Hey, do any of you guys know exactly what is going on right now with Microsoft and SUN. I heard microsoft will completely stop supporting SUN Java after 2004, as they are developing their own VM not compatible with SUN's. Now maybe some might think this is a question for Community, but I want to get CFTalks point of view here. We are currently making the transition to OO with CFMX (which I know is not true OO), but more importantly java. I'm not not worried or afraid of change, but it would be nice to know if we are going to have to make a move to Linux for Web technologies in the future if we currently want to work with these tools and take ourselves forward with them. Which leads me to another question which is on another note, I've started developing a while back in VB COM+ dll's so I could speed up certain tasks where CF is sluggish, my question is I'm slightly confused about the main purpose of Microsoft Message Queing, what I do understand is that it allows two or more machines work together out of sinc, but can it be used as a threading mechanism for COM compoents on a server only. From what I have seen MSMQ assignsa queing mechanism to both the client app and server app, so where does it fit in with HTTP where the client will not have a designated que. Thanks in advance, J ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
J2EE faster under Linux? (was: MS CF AND JAVA)
Hi folks, I'm very curious about performance issues regarding Java running under Linux versus Java under Windows - with the same hardware config and JVM version. Can we say, in terms of performance for CFMX (and JVM itself), that one plataform is better than other? I'm not sure, but I've heard people saying CFMX is 10% faster under Linux here (this is not the performance comparison with CF5 under Windows). CF developers here in Brazil don't have a consense on that. I personally believe it doesn't matter, Java will run the same way in both plataforms. I've searched at Google do find some comparison charts or benchmarks regarding Java under Linux in comparison to java under Windows but I didn't find anything conclusive, just comments (most of than saying that Java support for Linux is poor and slow). Does anybody know something about it? Some references i've found: http://www.luni.org/pipermail/luni/2001-December/003112.html http://www.internetwk.com/story/INW20020909S0003 http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jsp?forum=27thread=305179 http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jsp?forum=256thread=41580 http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jsp?forum=27thread=31574 Thanks!! Alex | alex hübner | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.cfgigolo.com
J2EE faster under Linux? (was: MS CF AND JAVA)
Hi folks, I'm very curious about performance issues regarding Java running under Linux versus Java under Windows - with the same hardware config and JVM version. Can we say, in terms of performance for CFMX (and JVM itself), that one plataform is better than other? I'm not sure, but I've heard people saying CFMX is 10% faster under Linux here (this is not the performance comparison with CF5 under Windows). CF developers here in Brazil don't have a consense on that. I personally believe it doesn't matter, Java will run the same way in both plataforms. I've searched at Google do find some comparison charts or benchmarks regarding Java under Linux in comparison to java under Windows but I didn't find anything conclusive, just comments (most of than saying that Java support for Linux is poor and slow). Does anybody know something about it? Some references i've found: http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jsp?forum=27thread=305179 http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jsp?forum=256thread=41580 http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jsp?forum=27thread=31574 http://www.luni.org/pipermail/luni/2001-December/003112.html http://www.internetwk.com/story/INW20020909S0003 Thanks!! Alex | alex hübner | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.cfgigolo.com ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribeforumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
