RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
I can't believe that anyone trully thinks that tests are a waste of time. What we are talking about here applies to all forms of testing. Reading about CF, practicing it, and then taking a test is identical to taking A Levels, Degree, etc albeit on a lesser level. Of course the reults of the test may not reflect your true ability if you had an off day but then that can happen with an interview in general. If you have an off day and don't perform well you can't expect to win!...it's as simple as that! As for people who say it isn't the interviewee's fault if they walk out without taking the test that's ludicrous. Of course it's their fault. If they get upset (for whatever reason) at the prospect of having to take a test then it's their problem. Perhaps they should be pre-warned before arriving that they will have to sit a test but even if they aren't they should still take it. After all if I spring a test on an interviewee and they delcine to take it it should tell me something about them. When you employ someone you should really be looking for more than someone who will just sit down and code. You want someone who can adapt to different situations and are as versatile as possible. The last person we employed (and I know he's reading this!) was relatively a beginner at CF at the time but part of the reason he got the job was due to the way he approached the questions in a logical structured manner, despite not knowing the correct syntax. I mean lets face it, CFML aint hard to learn. What is much harder is the logical approach you need to programing in general which spans accross all languages and a test helps determine whether you have this. -- Andrew Ewings Project Manager Thoughtbubble Ltd http://www.thoughtbubble.net -- United Kingdom http://www.thoughtbubble.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 -- New Zealand http://www.thoughtbubble.co.nz/ Tel: +64 (0) 9 488 9131 -- The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Thoughtbubble. This information may be subject to legal, professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message. Please notify us on +44 (0)207 387 8890. -Original Message- From: Paul Sizemore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 July 2001 19:26 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Questions to ask for CF developer I think company level tests are (generally) used by managers that have a weak appreciation of the technology (and therefore no way to judge an employee). The few times I have taken a test, and got the job, I have found that the manager has little to no idea about the technology (and little idea how to manage it). But, wouldn't we all love to have a supervisor that understood the technology as much as we do? Once during a third round interview, I could tell the company was having a hard time judging my ability, so I offered them my CF code. I think it cost me the job, but hey it was when I was just starting to CF (and they wanted a Lead), and I wouldn't want to be expected to code on a level that I wasn't comfortable with. Since I'm from a Graphic Design background, I'm used to having a portfolio of work. The company I'm at now has started giving a test (not CF) to applicants when they walk in the door. We have had a few applicants walk out without even looking at the test. The management here thinks they walked out because they did not want to face the music or fail a test. In reality it was probably because the applicant was blind-sided with a test up front, and was upset about it. After I have seen the type of companies that think a test is an appropriate solution, I would be very hesitant to take a position somewhere I was given a test. But, all of this is moot when I need a job; I'll do about anything. This message and any attachments may be confidential or privileged and are for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you are not the addressee or intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use, or disclose this communication to others. If you have received this in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it entirely from your system. Delivery of this message and any attachments to any person other than the intended recipient(s) is not intended in any way to waive confidentiality or a privilege. All personal messages express views only of the sender, which are not to be attributed
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
I agree with a few of the other people here. It's kind of ridiculous to ask someone to take a ColdFusion test. I mean, that's sort of like asking a secretary to take a typing test. You either know your stuff or you don't. You'll find out very quickly whether the person has the technical knowledge they claim to have, and if you don't have enough knowledge of ColdFusion to be able to know any different, well then shame on you for trying to act like you ColdFusion by putting a test in front of me. Whomever is going to manage these developers had best know their stuff as well! ---mark = Mark Warrick - Fusioneers.com Personal Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Business Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 714-547-5386 Efax: 801-730-7289 Personal URL: http://www.warrick.net Business URL: http://www.fusioneers.com ICQ: 125160 / AIM: markwarric = -Original Message- From: Janine Jakim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 5:52 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: Questions to ask for CF developer I've just been asked to prepare some questions for possible new employees. He wants it general but able to gauge their knowledge. This is a 2nd interview type deal- the first one people stated yeah I have X yrs experience with CF. We don't want to get too nitty gritty but we do want to get a feel for how well they do know it. Any ideas? I need answers quickly- they are doing call backs this afternoon. Thanks. j ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
By the way, on the same note, I was once given a one-hour ColdFusion test to see if I could build a simple contact database within an hour. I finished the application in one hour, 5 minutes. I failed the test, and in my opinion, so did the company. ---mark = Mark Warrick - Fusioneers.com Personal Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Business Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 714-547-5386 Efax: 801-730-7289 Personal URL: http://www.warrick.net Business URL: http://www.fusioneers.com ICQ: 125160 / AIM: markwarric = -Original Message- From: Mark Warrick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 4:53 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Questions to ask for CF developer I agree with a few of the other people here. It's kind of ridiculous to ask someone to take a ColdFusion test. I mean, that's sort of like asking a secretary to take a typing test. You either know your stuff or you don't. You'll find out very quickly whether the person has the technical knowledge they claim to have, and if you don't have enough knowledge of ColdFusion to be able to know any different, well then shame on you for trying to act like you ColdFusion by putting a test in front of me. Whomever is going to manage these developers had best know their stuff as well! ---mark = Mark Warrick - Fusioneers.com Personal Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Business Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 714-547-5386 Efax: 801-730-7289 Personal URL: http://www.warrick.net Business URL: http://www.fusioneers.com ICQ: 125160 / AIM: markwarric = -Original Message- From: Janine Jakim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 5:52 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: Questions to ask for CF developer I've just been asked to prepare some questions for possible new employees. He wants it general but able to gauge their knowledge. This is a 2nd interview type deal- the first one people stated yeah I have X yrs experience with CF. We don't want to get too nitty gritty but we do want to get a feel for how well they do know it. Any ideas? I need answers quickly- they are doing call backs this afternoon. Thanks. j ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Questions to ask for CF developer
I failed the test, and in my opinion, so did the company. Oh, I think that was a pretty successful test, then . . . . Could you imagine working for them? Scott - Scott Brady http://www.scottbrady.net/ ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Questions to ask for CF developer
My mom was a secretary and to get the job she did have to take a typing test... - Original Message - From: Mark Warrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 7:52 AM Subject: RE: Questions to ask for CF developer I agree with a few of the other people here. It's kind of ridiculous to ask someone to take a ColdFusion test. I mean, that's sort of like asking a secretary to take a typing test. You either know your stuff or you don't. You'll find out very quickly whether the person has the technical knowledge they claim to have, and if you don't have enough knowledge of ColdFusion to be able to know any different, well then shame on you for trying to act like you ColdFusion by putting a test in front of me. Whomever is going to manage these developers had best know their stuff as well! ---mark = Mark Warrick - Fusioneers.com Personal Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Business Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 714-547-5386 Efax: 801-730-7289 Personal URL: http://www.warrick.net Business URL: http://www.fusioneers.com ICQ: 125160 / AIM: markwarric = -Original Message- From: Janine Jakim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 5:52 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: Questions to ask for CF developer I've just been asked to prepare some questions for possible new employees. He wants it general but able to gauge their knowledge. This is a 2nd interview type deal- the first one people stated yeah I have X yrs experience with CF. We don't want to get too nitty gritty but we do want to get a feel for how well they do know it. Any ideas? I need answers quickly- they are doing call backs this afternoon. Thanks. j ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
You'll find out very quickly whether the person has the technical knowledge they claim to have, and if you don't have enough knowledge of ColdFusion Yeh but it's often too late by then.Properly written tests do have their worth. I disagree with people who say they are a complte waste of time as much as I disagree with people who say they are the diffinitive ond only way of finding a good CF programmer. They should be merely taken as a guide and a supplement to the interview itself. -- Andrew Ewings Project Manager Thoughtbubble Ltd http://www.thoughtbubble.net -- United Kingdom http://www.thoughtbubble.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 -- New Zealand http://www.thoughtbubble.co.nz/ Tel: +64 (0) 9 488 9131 -- The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Thoughtbubble. This information may be subject to legal, professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message. Please notify us on +44 (0)207 387 8890. -Original Message- From: Michael Bruce [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 July 2001 17:25 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Questions to ask for CF developer My mom was a secretary and to get the job she did have to take a typing test... - Original Message - From: Mark Warrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 7:52 AM Subject: RE: Questions to ask for CF developer I agree with a few of the other people here. It's kind of ridiculous to ask someone to take a ColdFusion test. I mean, that's sort of like asking a secretary to take a typing test. You either know your stuff or you don't. You'll find out very quickly whether the person has the technical knowledge they claim to have, and if you don't have enough knowledge of ColdFusion to be able to know any different, well then shame on you for trying to act like you ColdFusion by putting a test in front of me. Whomever is going to manage these developers had best know their stuff as well! ---mark = Mark Warrick - Fusioneers.com Personal Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Business Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: 714-547-5386 Efax: 801-730-7289 Personal URL: http://www.warrick.net Business URL: http://www.fusioneers.com ICQ: 125160 / AIM: markwarric = -Original Message- From: Janine Jakim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 5:52 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: Questions to ask for CF developer I've just been asked to prepare some questions for possible new employees. He wants it general but able to gauge their knowledge. This is a 2nd interview type deal- the first one people stated yeah I have X yrs experience with CF. We don't want to get too nitty gritty but we do want to get a feel for how well they do know it. Any ideas? I need answers quickly- they are doing call backs this afternoon. Thanks. j ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
Properly written tests do have their worth. What if the person doesn't test well? What if the person is having a bad day? What if the person is a very good programmer but, like myself, is highly dyslexic and has trouble with written tests? What if your test covers material that you never use in the course of your projects at work? What if the person suffers from stress induced problems triggered by tests? Isn't it a better solution to get someone who understands the material to talk to the prospective employee instead? Standardised tests only prove that the person can take tests and memorize facts. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
I don't think that we're talking about complicated tests but just to know that the person has a basic grasp of the kind of things they will get to do in the job. Also your comment about stress induced problems - surely if they do suffer from this they may want to rethink their career?! I myself have an awful memory, but I wouldn't go for a job when I can't remember the basic understandings surrounding the job description. A test on it's own is obviously a stupid thing to do, but used alongside questions and a proper interview I agree with. I don't see what the problem is. Kath Katherine Maltby Web Production Director -- United Kingdom http://www.thoughtbubble.co.uk/ Ph: +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 -- New Zealand http://www.thoughtbubble.co.nz/ Ph: +64 (0) 9 488 9131 The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s) . Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Thoughtbubble. This information may be subject to legal, professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message. Please notify us on +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 -Original Message- From: Zac Belado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 July 2001 17:49 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Questions to ask for CF developer Properly written tests do have their worth. What if the person doesn't test well? What if the person is having a bad day? What if the person is a very good programmer but, like myself, is highly dyslexic and has trouble with written tests? What if your test covers material that you never use in the course of your projects at work? What if the person suffers from stress induced problems triggered by tests? Isn't it a better solution to get someone who understands the material to talk to the prospective employee instead? Standardised tests only prove that the person can take tests and memorize facts. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
What if the person doesn't test well? This is exactly why they should be looked at as a supplement to an interview. If you look at it that way you could argue that all forms of testing are invalid. I could argue that my degree result does not reflect my ability because I don't test well. What if the person is having a bad day? Then they have a bad day!!! If you give a bad interview then you can't expect to get the job! I'm sorry but if I have to interviewees and one is miles better than the other on the day then they will winthere is no way I'm going to employ the other one on the hope that they had a bad day. What if the person is a very good programmer but, like myself, is highly dyslexic and has trouble with written tests? Then this should be made clear to the interviewer and adjustments should be made accordingly. What if your test covers material that you never use in the course of your projects at work? You should write your tests so that it does cover the areas you are going to use. There is no point employing an expert in WDDX if you are never going to use it. What if the person suffers from stress induced problems triggered by tests? As I said before, you should take the results along withe the interview performance. Anyway I am not going to employ someone who suffers from stress induced problems triggered by tests - if they get stressed over a test then they are likely to get stressed when working to tight deadlines etc -- Andrew Ewings Project Manager Thoughtbubble Ltd http://www.thoughtbubble.net -- United Kingdom http://www.thoughtbubble.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 -- New Zealand http://www.thoughtbubble.co.nz/ Tel: +64 (0) 9 488 9131 -- The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Thoughtbubble. This information may be subject to legal, professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message. Please notify us on +44 (0)207 387 8890. -Original Message- From: Zac Belado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 23 July 2001 17:49 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Questions to ask for CF developer Properly written tests do have their worth. What if the person doesn't test well? What if the person is having a bad day? What if the person is a very good programmer but, like myself, is highly dyslexic and has trouble with written tests? What if your test covers material that you never use in the course of your projects at work? What if the person suffers from stress induced problems triggered by tests? Isn't it a better solution to get someone who understands the material to talk to the prospective employee instead? Standardised tests only prove that the person can take tests and memorize facts. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
At 09:48 AM 07/23/2001 -0700, you wrote: Properly written tests do have their worth. What if the person doesn't test well? What if the person is having a bad day? What if the person is a very good programmer but, like myself, is highly dyslexic and has trouble with written tests? What if your test covers material that you never use in the course of your projects at work? What if the person suffers from stress induced problems triggered by tests? Isn't it a better solution to get someone who understands the material to talk to the prospective employee instead? I think you quoted out of context, and I think the original poster of the message you quoted was alluding to the fact (if he didn't say it outright) that a test can be used in conjunction w/ a technical interview. -- Jeffry Houser | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM: Reboog711 | ICQ: 5246969 | Phone: 860-229-2781 -- I'm looking for a room-mate in the Hartford CT area, starting in August -- Instant ColdFusion 5.0 | ISBN: 0-07-213238-8 http://www.instantcoldfusion.com -- DotComIt, LLC database driven web data using ColdFusion, Lotus Notes/Domino -- Far Cry Fly, Alternative Folk Rock http://www.farcryfly.com | http://www.mp3.com/FarCryFly ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
What if the person is a very good programmer but, like myself, is highly dyslexic and has trouble with written tests? Then I sure hope you're not working on our banking application! :) Otherwise we'll end up with cfif CreditLine LT 1000 cfset ApproveMortgage = true /cfif ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
IMHO, tests should be delivered verbally, and the questions should be written to evoke conversation. I ask questions like what are the different variable scopes supported in Cold Fusion?. When the person answers, I'll follow through with questions like Why would you use the request scope?. I try to keep them open ended. Jeff Beer Senior Programmer Architect Hydrogen Media, Inc (727) 530-5500 x303 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Zac Belado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 12:49 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Questions to ask for CF developer Properly written tests do have their worth. What if the person doesn't test well? What if the person is having a bad day? What if the person is a very good programmer but, like myself, is highly dyslexic and has trouble with written tests? What if your test covers material that you never use in the course of your projects at work? What if the person suffers from stress induced problems triggered by tests? Isn't it a better solution to get someone who understands the material to talk to the prospective employee instead? Standardised tests only prove that the person can take tests and memorize facts. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
IMHO, tests should be delivered verbally, and the questions should be written to evoke conversation. I ask questions like what are the different variable scopes supported in Cold Fusion?. When the person answers, I'll follow through with questions like Why would you use the request scope?. I try to keep them open ended. Or to provoke more thought; Why would you use the Request scope in preference to Variables, Attributes, Client or Application? See if they know which ones are used in which circumstances Philip Arnold Director Certified ColdFusion Developer ASP Multimedia Limited T: +44 (0)20 8680 1133 Websites for the real world ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. ** ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
I think simple questions on CF, HTML or whatever they say they can do can be used as an added decision making tool but not the only thing to base your decision on. We have had people hired that didn't know the basics and they could have been weeded out with some simple basic questions. Now this is a problem when the person hiring doesn't know specific questions to ask. So you just need to inform the interviewer of some basic stuff this person should already know. I had a test at a interview. I had to write a page of HTML by hand with pencil and paper. I do not keep all attribute details of every tag in my head, so I'm sure they didn't like my response to the test. I personally do not think that is a correct way to hire people. Memorizing things is a basic form of knowledge, but how the person applies it is what makes them a professional. my 2cents Shawn Regan Applications Developer Pacific Technology Solutions ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Questions to ask for CF developer
| I had a test at a interview. I had to write a page of HTML by hand with | pencil and paper. I do not keep all attribute details of every tag in my | head, so I'm sure they didn't like my response to the test. Pencil and paper? What, were they trying to see how well you could function durring a power outage or something? I had to take a CF test once where some of the multiple choice questions did not have a correct answer. How do you correctly answer a question that has no correct answer as a choice? heh. I don't think they liked my comments about the test either. Todd - Original Message - From: Shawn Regan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 1:44 PM Subject: RE: Questions to ask for CF developer | I think simple questions on CF, HTML or whatever they say they can do can be | used as an added decision making tool but not the only thing to base your | decision on. | | We have had people hired that didn't know the basics and they could have | been weeded out with some simple basic questions. Now this is a problem when | the person hiring doesn't know specific questions to ask. So you just need | to inform the interviewer of some basic stuff this person should already | know. | | | | I had a test at a interview. I had to write a page of HTML by hand with | pencil and paper. I do not keep all attribute details of every tag in my | head, so I'm sure they didn't like my response to the test. I personally do | not think that is a correct way to hire people. Memorizing things is a basic | form of knowledge, but how the person applies it is what makes them a | professional. | | | | my 2cents | | Shawn Regan | Applications Developer | Pacific Technology Solutions ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
Then I sure hope you're not working on our banking application! :) Otherwise we'll end up with cfif CreditLine LT 1000 cfset ApproveMortgage = true /cfif No, and that is a poor attempt at a joke. If the person was truly dyslexic, you would end up with something more along the lines of cffi CredtiLnie TL 1000 cfste ApprvoeMrotgaeg = treu /cfif And, dyslexia usually causes more problems on the reading end than the typing end. John ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
I think company level tests are (generally) used by managers that have a weak appreciation of the technology (and therefore no way to judge an employee). The few times I have taken a test, and got the job, I have found that the manager has little to no idea about the technology (and little idea how to manage it). But, wouldn't we all love to have a supervisor that understood the technology as much as we do? Once during a third round interview, I could tell the company was having a hard time judging my ability, so I offered them my CF code. I think it cost me the job, but hey it was when I was just starting to CF (and they wanted a Lead), and I wouldn't want to be expected to code on a level that I wasn't comfortable with. Since I'm from a Graphic Design background, I'm used to having a portfolio of work. The company I'm at now has started giving a test (not CF) to applicants when they walk in the door. We have had a few applicants walk out without even looking at the test. The management here thinks they walked out because they did not want to face the music or fail a test. In reality it was probably because the applicant was blind-sided with a test up front, and was upset about it. After I have seen the type of companies that think a test is an appropriate solution, I would be very hesitant to take a position somewhere I was given a test. But, all of this is moot when I need a job; I'll do about anything. This message and any attachments may be confidential or privileged and are for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you are not the addressee or intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use, or disclose this communication to others. If you have received this in error, please notify the sender by replying to this message, and then delete it entirely from your system. Delivery of this message and any attachments to any person other than the intended recipient(s) is not intended in any way to waive confidentiality or a privilege. All personal messages express views only of the sender, which are not to be attributed to Finish Line, and may not be copied or distributed without this statement. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
I think you quoted out of context, and I think the original poster of the message you quoted was alluding to the fact (if he didn't say it outright) that a test can be used in conjunction w/ a technical interview. In which case I'm not quoting him out of context. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
OT: Dyslexia was Questions to ask for CF developer
No, and that is a poor attempt at a joke. Indeed. If the person was truly dyslexic, you would end up with something more along the lines of cffi CredtiLnie TL 1000 cfste ApprvoeMrotgaeg = treu /cfif And, dyslexia usually causes more problems on the reading end than the typing end. Not really. Typically its an inability to see a spelling mistake in work that you have created (caveat I can only speak of my own experiences and since the effects of dyslexia can vary wildly from individual to individual this YMMV) and not the total inability to spell. The general assumption that it means you can't spell is really not true. I can spell quite well but my particular problem rests in finding typos in my own work since and spelling words that are exceptions to standard English spelling or grammatical rules. So it would be very odd to see a dyslexic who would spell cfif incorrectly or spell ApprvoeMrotgaeg in that particular fashion. As an odd aside, English has a higher incidence of dyslexics due to the number of words that are loaned from other languages or are exceptions to the general language rules. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
I agree Bill, that a test would be a real turn off to me, if I was applying for a position. I would be more interested in the sort of person they are, if they would fit in to the team (back to the beatles or stones question i guess), their *understanding* of the work we do, their attitude towards learning more skills, the sites they have built so far, and most of all, an indicator that they really enjoy what they do, cos I do. W -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 19 July 2001 15:15 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Questions to ask for CF developer I don't like to give tests to people when I'm talking with them. And I don't like taking them when I'm interviewing. When someone plops down a test in front of me ... I ask myself is this the environment I want to work in? And I've turned down jobs because of it. And these tests show exactly what? When I'm developing I've got Studio or MSDN or the web or whatever at my disposal. Is it important to memorize every parameter of every command? Or is it better to have the skills to be able to locate the needed information. When I'm interviewing someone, I start with having the person tell me what they developed. I then probe as to how and why the developed it. I also like to get a feel for design considerations. I might ask how one has handled large query results being displayed at the client or maybe some browser compatability issues etc. It's not 1998 and the supply-side of talent may rule the day, but IMHO plopping down a test is a mistake. Bill ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
OT: Questions to ask for CF developer
I've just been asked to prepare some questions for possible new employees. He wants it general but able to gauge their knowledge. This is a 2nd interview type deal- the first one people stated yeah I have X yrs experience with CF. We don't want to get too nitty gritty but we do want to get a feel for how well they do know it. Any ideas? I need answers quickly- they are doing call backs this afternoon. Thanks. j ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
By an anual subscription to Brainbench and get all patential employees to sit onr of the exams. Either that or buy the Certified CF Developers guide (Forta) and use the q's out of that.much quicker than writing your own!! -- Andrew Ewings Project Manager Thoughtbubble Ltd http://www.thoughtbubble.net -- United Kingdom http://www.thoughtbubble.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 -- New Zealand http://www.thoughtbubble.co.nz/ Tel: +64 (0) 9 488 9131 -- The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Thoughtbubble. This information may be subject to legal, professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message. Please notify us on +44 (0)207 387 8890. -Original Message- From: Janine Jakim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 19 July 2001 13:52 To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: Questions to ask for CF developer I've just been asked to prepare some questions for possible new employees. He wants it general but able to gauge their knowledge. This is a 2nd interview type deal- the first one people stated yeah I have X yrs experience with CF. We don't want to get too nitty gritty but we do want to get a feel for how well they do know it. Any ideas? I need answers quickly- they are doing call backs this afternoon. Thanks. j ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
Try Ben's cf_developer tag on them ? -Original Message- From: Janine Jakim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 19 July 2001 13:52 To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: Questions to ask for CF developer I've just been asked to prepare some questions for possible new employees. He wants it general but able to gauge their knowledge. This is a 2nd interview type deal- the first one people stated yeah I have X yrs experience with CF. We don't want to get too nitty gritty but we do want to get a feel for how well they do know it. Any ideas? I need answers quickly- they are doing call backs this afternoon. Thanks. j ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
Go out and buy Ben Forta's Certified ColdFusion Developer Study Guide - have a look at the questions in there and select a few that a relevant to your company's use of CF - then re-write them in your in-house style J -Original Message- From: Janine Jakim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 19 July 2001 13:52 To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: Questions to ask for CF developer I've just been asked to prepare some questions for possible new employees. He wants it general but able to gauge their knowledge. This is a 2nd interview type deal- the first one people stated yeah I have X yrs experience with CF. We don't want to get too nitty gritty but we do want to get a feel for how well they do know it. Any ideas? I need answers quickly- they are doing call backs this afternoon. Thanks. j ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
just ask the to fix some old code you had problems with in the past. you know the stuff that took you 20 hours, when it should have taken 2. i am sure you still have some stuff that momentarily stumped you. -paul ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
Check Ben Forta site for some sample questions: http://www.forta.com/books/0789725657/dotest.cfm Rich -Original Message- From: Andy Ewings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 8:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Questions to ask for CF developer By an anual subscription to Brainbench and get all patential employees to sit onr of the exams. Either that or buy the Certified CF Developers guide (Forta) and use the q's out of that.much quicker than writing your own!! -- Andrew Ewings Project Manager Thoughtbubble Ltd http://www.thoughtbubble.net -- United Kingdom http://www.thoughtbubble.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 -- New Zealand http://www.thoughtbubble.co.nz/ Tel: +64 (0) 9 488 9131 -- The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Thoughtbubble. This information may be subject to legal, professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message. Please notify us on +44 (0)207 387 8890. -Original Message- From: Janine Jakim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 19 July 2001 13:52 To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: Questions to ask for CF developer I've just been asked to prepare some questions for possible new employees. He wants it general but able to gauge their knowledge. This is a 2nd interview type deal- the first one people stated yeah I have X yrs experience with CF. We don't want to get too nitty gritty but we do want to get a feel for how well they do know it. Any ideas? I need answers quickly- they are doing call backs this afternoon. Thanks. j ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
I used to work for a company that asked Which was the greatest band, the Stones or the Beatles? This will obviously separate the good from the bad ;) On a more serios note - I guess it all depends on what you are trying to ascertain. The q's in the books are very similar to the ones asked on the certification test. They are designed to catch you out and make you reas the question very carefully. this isn't necessarily what you are after, I found it was better in some cases to write your own very clear, perhaps more complex, questions about the areas of CF you tend to use the most in house. -- Andrew Ewings Project Manager Thoughtbubble Ltd http://www.thoughtbubble.net -- United Kingdom http://www.thoughtbubble.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 -- New Zealand http://www.thoughtbubble.co.nz/ Tel: +64 (0) 9 488 9131 -- The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Thoughtbubble. This information may be subject to legal, professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message. Please notify us on +44 (0)207 387 8890. -Original Message- From: Paul Ihrig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 19 July 2001 14:03 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Questions to ask for CF developer just ask the to fix some old code you had problems with in the past. you know the stuff that took you 20 hours, when it should have taken 2. i am sure you still have some stuff that momentarily stumped you. -paul ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
ah, but what if they're allaire certified, brainbench certified and already own the Forta study guide? ;-) KOla -Original Message- From: Andy Ewings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 19 July 2001 13:58 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Questions to ask for CF developer By an anual subscription to Brainbench and get all patential employees to sit onr of the exams. Either that or buy the Certified CF Developers guide (Forta) and use the q's out of that.much quicker than writing your own!! -- Andrew Ewings Project Manager Thoughtbubble Ltd http://www.thoughtbubble.net -- United Kingdom http://www.thoughtbubble.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 -- New Zealand http://www.thoughtbubble.co.nz/ Tel: +64 (0) 9 488 9131 -- The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Thoughtbubble. This information may be subject to legal, professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message. Please notify us on +44 (0)207 387 8890. -Original Message- From: Janine Jakim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 19 July 2001 13:52 To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: Questions to ask for CF developer I've just been asked to prepare some questions for possible new employees. He wants it general but able to gauge their knowledge. This is a 2nd interview type deal- the first one people stated yeah I have X yrs experience with CF. We don't want to get too nitty gritty but we do want to get a feel for how well they do know it. Any ideas? I need answers quickly- they are doing call backs this afternoon. Thanks. j ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
Very good point. When I was interviewing here I asked specific questions about problems I ran into while coding our products. I also asked about things we wanted to start incorporating like CFCONTENT or the FuseBox methodology. Finally, I made the candidate discuss what should go into the template Appliction.cfm in thier opinion. And I made them defend thier opinion. On that, there was no wrong answer except not to have an opinion. That final question was meant solely to get thier thought process and guage how well they knew ColdFusion. -Original Message- From: Andy Ewings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 8:16 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Questions to ask for CF developer I used to work for a company that asked Which was the greatest band, the Stones or the Beatles? This will obviously separate the good from the bad ;) On a more serios note - I guess it all depends on what you are trying to ascertain. The q's in the books are very similar to the ones asked on the certification test. They are designed to catch you out and make you reas the question very carefully. this isn't necessarily what you are after, I found it was better in some cases to write your own very clear, perhaps more complex, questions about the areas of CF you tend to use the most in house. -- Andrew Ewings Project Manager Thoughtbubble Ltd http://www.thoughtbubble.net -- United Kingdom http://www.thoughtbubble.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 -- New Zealand http://www.thoughtbubble.co.nz/ Tel: +64 (0) 9 488 9131 -- The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Thoughtbubble. This information may be subject to legal, professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message. Please notify us on +44 (0)207 387 8890. -Original Message- From: Paul Ihrig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 19 July 2001 14:03 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Questions to ask for CF developer just ask the to fix some old code you had problems with in the past. you know the stuff that took you 20 hours, when it should have taken 2. i am sure you still have some stuff that momentarily stumped you. -paul ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
hire them! -Original Message- From: Kola Oyedeji [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 19 July 2001 14:32 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Questions to ask for CF developer ah, but what if they're allaire certified, brainbench certified and already own the Forta study guide? ;-) KOla -Original Message- From: Andy Ewings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 19 July 2001 13:58 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Questions to ask for CF developer By an anual subscription to Brainbench and get all patential employees to sit onr of the exams. Either that or buy the Certified CF Developers guide (Forta) and use the q's out of that.much quicker than writing your own!! -- Andrew Ewings Project Manager Thoughtbubble Ltd http://www.thoughtbubble.net -- United Kingdom http://www.thoughtbubble.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 -- New Zealand http://www.thoughtbubble.co.nz/ Tel: +64 (0) 9 488 9131 -- The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Thoughtbubble. This information may be subject to legal, professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message. Please notify us on +44 (0)207 387 8890. -Original Message- From: Janine Jakim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 19 July 2001 13:52 To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: Questions to ask for CF developer I've just been asked to prepare some questions for possible new employees. He wants it general but able to gauge their knowledge. This is a 2nd interview type deal- the first one people stated yeah I have X yrs experience with CF. We don't want to get too nitty gritty but we do want to get a feel for how well they do know it. Any ideas? I need answers quickly- they are doing call backs this afternoon. Thanks. j ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
yeah and now Andy works for a company that tells him that the Beatles are better! :) J -Original Message- From: Andy Ewings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 19 July 2001 14:16 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Questions to ask for CF developer I used to work for a company that asked Which was the greatest band, the Stones or the Beatles? This will obviously separate the good from the bad ;) On a more serios note - I guess it all depends on what you are trying to ascertain. The q's in the books are very similar to the ones asked on the certification test. They are designed to catch you out and make you reas the question very carefully. this isn't necessarily what you are after, I found it was better in some cases to write your own very clear, perhaps more complex, questions about the areas of CF you tend to use the most in house. -- Andrew Ewings Project Manager Thoughtbubble Ltd http://www.thoughtbubble.net -- United Kingdom http://www.thoughtbubble.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 -- New Zealand http://www.thoughtbubble.co.nz/ Tel: +64 (0) 9 488 9131 -- The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Thoughtbubble. This information may be subject to legal, professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message. Please notify us on +44 (0)207 387 8890. -Original Message- From: Paul Ihrig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 19 July 2001 14:03 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Questions to ask for CF developer just ask the to fix some old code you had problems with in the past. you know the stuff that took you 20 hours, when it should have taken 2. i am sure you still have some stuff that momentarily stumped you. -paul ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: [OT: Questions to ask for CF developer]
Depeneds on what you're looking for. Are you looiking for someone to develop or maintain. For development. Ask them if they know how to program. Ask some design/theory questions on programming, netwaroking, databases, and the internet? What other languages do you know? What do you use for source control? What have you done on your own time? What books have they read on programming? For maintainance. Ask some syntax questions. Janine Jakim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've just been asked to prepare some questions for possible new employees. He wants it general but able to gauge their knowledge. This is a 2nd interview type deal- the first one people stated yeah I have X yrs experience with CF. We don't want to get too nitty gritty but we do want to get a feel for how well they do know it. Any ideas? I need answers quickly- they are doing call backs this afternoon. Thanks. j ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Questions to ask for CF developer
I don't like to give tests to people when I'm talking with them. And I don't like taking them when I'm interviewing. When someone plops down a test in front of me ... I ask myself is this the environment I want to work in? And I've turned down jobs because of it. And these tests show exactly what? When I'm developing I've got Studio or MSDN or the web or whatever at my disposal. Is it important to memorize every parameter of every command? Or is it better to have the skills to be able to locate the needed information. When I'm interviewing someone, I start with having the person tell me what they developed. I then probe as to how and why the developed it. I also like to get a feel for design considerations. I might ask how one has handled large query results being displayed at the client or maybe some browser compatability issues etc. It's not 1998 and the supply-side of talent may rule the day, but IMHO plopping down a test is a mistake. Bill ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT Questions to ask for CF developer
Thanks to all who responded. I've got a good idea about what to ask I appreciate the help. j ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
The 'test' I would do is one where they have access to everything they would normally have in the office environment, and I ask them to do a specific task in say 30 minutes and see how far they get, and what they produce afterward. -Gel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] I don't like to give tests to people when I'm talking with them. And I don't like taking them when I'm interviewing. When someone plops down a test in front of me ... I ask myself is this the environment I want to work in? And I've turned down jobs because of it. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
Any ideas? I need answers quickly- they are doing call backs this afternoon. I'd avoid the brainbench and developers guide questions and instead ask them to describe the process of building on of the sites in their portfolio or one of their favourite projects. Ask them why they made certain decision and made the architecture of their site the way they did. While you certainly want a competent developer you also want someone with a great interest in their work and an ability to explain the concepts that they use in their work. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Questions to ask for CF developer
I don't think that plopping down a test in necessarily a mistake, it's just how you go about it. At a company at which I used to work, we had a home grown, web-based CF/Database test that we gave to interviewees. However, we told them on the phone that part of the interview process would be this test and to expect to spend about 30 minutes on it. Over time, we developed a system where they could do part of it (some inital HR related stuff) at home before even coming in, and thus allowing them to not have to spend all day with us. So, I think it's all a matter of expectations. If they come in expecting a standard interview and then get a test, then yes, I think that could put some people off. But if you tell them up front, then I think everyone will be happy. my $.02. Thanks, Evan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 10:15 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Questions to ask for CF developer I don't like to give tests to people when I'm talking with them. And I don't like taking them when I'm interviewing. When someone plops down a test in front of me ... I ask myself is this the environment I want to work in? And I've turned down jobs because of it. And these tests show exactly what? When I'm developing I've got Studio or MSDN or the web or whatever at my disposal. Is it important to memorize every parameter of every command? Or is it better to have the skills to be able to locate the needed information. When I'm interviewing someone, I start with having the person tell me what they developed. I then probe as to how and why the developed it. I also like to get a feel for design considerations. I might ask how one has handled large query results being displayed at the client or maybe some browser compatability issues etc. It's not 1998 and the supply-side of talent may rule the day, but IMHO plopping down a test is a mistake. Bill ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: [OT: Questions to ask for CF developer]
Janine Jakim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've just been asked to prepare some questions for possible new employees. He wants it general but able to gauge their knowledge. This is a 2nd interview type deal- the first one people stated yeah I have X yrs experience with CF. We don't want to get too nitty gritty but we do want to get a feel for how well they do know it. Any ideas? I need answers quickly- they are doing call backs this afternoon. Thanks. j One of the most effective techniques I have seen is: The interviewer asks the interviewee to tell him a joke. You can tell a lot about someone by his response. Dick ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: [RE: Questions to ask for CF developer]
But the interviewee hasn't setup the computer how he likes it. And hasn't installed any tools that he regularly uses. Angél Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The 'test' I would do is one where they have access to everything they would normally have in the office environment, and I ask them to do a specific task in say 30 minutes and see how far they get, and what they produce afterward. -Gel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] I don't like to give tests to people when I'm talking with them. And I don't like taking them when I'm interviewing. When someone plops down a test in front of me ... I ask myself is this the environment I want to work in? And I've turned down jobs because of it. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: Questions to ask for CF developer
At 08:51 AM 7/19/01 -0400, you wrote: I've just been asked to prepare some questions for possible new employees. He wants it general but able to gauge their knowledge. This is a 2nd interview type deal- the first one people stated yeah I have X yrs experience with CF. We don't want to get too nitty gritty but we do want to get a feel for how well they do know it. Any ideas? I need answers quickly- they are doing call backs this afternoon. Thanks. j Ask them to tell which CF tags they are familiar with, and when those tags would be used. I also print out a copy of a fairly complex CF query and ask them what it does. This should give you a reality check on their knowledge level. Then ask them about a couple of fictional CF tags that you make up and see if they confess knowledge of those too. This will let you know how honest they are. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
