Re: Stus-List Toe Rail Resealing

[Gary Nylander via CnC-List]

I had a fellow competitor drift into me on a no-wind day and the tall bow of 
his large boat bent the toe rail, just forward of the joint between the two 
halves. I took it off – about 50 bolt/nut/washer combinations. A local shop put 
it on their 20x20 flat table and straightened it and I put it back on with a 
fresh strip of butyl. No leaks – It was not fun taking it off, as access is not 
the best (I found on a 30-1 if you take the shelves off in the Vee berth area, 
it is a lot easier). Put it back on – much easier and no leaks. I doubt you 
would need the 5200.

 

Gary

 

From: CnC-List  On Behalf Of James Hesketh via 
CnC-List
Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2019 7:39 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: James Hesketh 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Toe Rail Resealing

 

Thank you all for the helpful responses. 

 

I did have extensive leaking from under the toerail when first getting the boat 
5 years ago and mostly stopped it by running a bead of 5200 around the inner 
perimeter of the rail and figured that was a temporary fix. That 5200 had now 
degraded and is cracking, I'm assuming due to UV exposure. 

 

My boat has been a Florida boat since new and I'm guessing the heat has had an 
affect on the deck/hull seal -- the original butyl sealant is weeping out and 
dripping down onto the inner hull (big mess); it would be an impossible job to 
remove the deck to replace. Don't know why I never thought to check the bolt 
tightness before it being mentioned in your replies; they are almost all 
finger-loose, I'm assuming because of the settling of the deck due to the loss 
of the original deck/hull sealant. I haven't seen any weeping of the sealant 
between the toerail and deck

 

I'm currently prepping the boat for deck/cabin/cockpit painting and have all 
deck hardware removed and will re-bed when refitting -- now is the time to 
tackle this.

 

I'm thinking now my options are to go with my original plan of total R&R of the 
rail -- or to pull the bolts a few at a time, work some fresh butyl into the 
hole and screw the bolt back in through the sealant, tighten them properly, and 
back that up with another bead of calk on the deck/rail if needed (and redo 
that every few years as needed).

 

Thoughts . . .?

 

Last year I rebuilt the kingpost support in the bilge, reinforced the bulkheads 
for the chain plates and did some deck repair where the chain plates went 
through, did some glass/gelcoat work around the fore hatch where it had 
deformed due to the mast step setteling, made a new main hatch slider and 
cockpit locker rails. I enjoy bringing her back to shape, but I do enjoy 
sailing more than working on her. I figure these projects will be good for 
another few decades.

 

Thanks again,

Jim 

 

On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 3:21 PM Ken Heaton via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

This link will take you (should take you?) to a drawing of the C&C toe rail 
design by 1988 or so:

 

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a9bOV0skefEUTFpVkv51NwlYdrABb80JetHmGGeftc-PldDJ8aKaUXnUIPBbrBcvKjmlAtasRO2pjwvuFYHGYx4faUPYxLb6qQKvCVHCGyOcywF-TyJZ-otqWTYyRzMHyhW1gk_lBUwtLo5fCWneDsjWlqD6CRnJeEtCCFBBWfZPJrW3jkKa9XDbHwUBggCBdoTwe-RNvX66kvPmOqKceLDKSV_EP5XOhOWoQXeUCz-0ScJ-4Gp1sjozsS9lz5eAhF-tD90yYrbGwq0_6XS4DWPtJt0uznrt_3tCzJeAawhBbv0Djih947M8tI9C8dQXyqBS8EgDMI4jNvyNOZall4nFT2yDac4lhxpMginaj4poGEBeEP7_fGdoX0b-5chgfu3vt8jKOjSZ-L7I4qmez7BPkMWMhvXErtwpQihxQBb7x072jjn6Qg5xoNwTqVhxAmQuvxDP7JsD9rudEEI4256eYKGqS8Xn9iFR15-TC5nEB9NKfDGpEP4dp56zvKKmjuyqLHjVI1XSV7MZ-0IPVevvkKoVeWhHOGo-9gj4mCrG5_vce1-l-5yDPNn_uqlobzzW4rvkBtpTRx7sopLHxAuN-eBIFRL-XK9Nbc5KiAeE1v7wGxD-yXd_Gq5SawAeb0MYBGaStF_TMeW6Ve6bdGP1dMUCJf0si24nNuPdBYqU5MJSH5LanQ=w805-h1057-no

 

I realise the older boats are a bit different as the Rub Rail is part of the 
'sandwich' in the older ones.

 

Ken H.

 

On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 at 14:34, Rick Brass via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote:

I think you’ll find the consensus of advice to be “Don’t do it.”

 

The hull to deck joint and toe rail on the older C&Cs is a pretty well 
engineered setup that will last a lifetime. There are several  hundred of us on 
the list, and I suspect the number who have had leaks in the toe rail or hull 
to deck join is near single digits.

 

Basically the joint (from bottom to  top) is as follows: Inward facing flange 
on the hull, layer of butyl, rubber rub rail riveted to the hull flange, 
another layer of butyl, the deck, another layer of butyl, the toe rail, then it 
is all through bolted with stainless oval head machine screws. My 25 has screws 
every 6” (IIRC) and my 38 is bolted every 4”. Removing the bolts and toe rail 
can possibly compromise every layer of the seal.

 

If you have an owners’ manual (or buy one from the Photo Album website) you can 
see a cross section of the joint.

 

In almost all cases the recommended fix for a leak (which seem to mostly be 
around the machine screws) is to tighten the through bolts about ½ to a full 
turn, and apply Captai

Stus-List LF 38 rudder removal

[Simon and Silvana via CnC-List]

Hi Fred
We had no problem removing the set screws in the thrust collar and used a
chain wrench to grab the round nut. The rudder was supported while this was
done. It might be worth moving the nut back and forth to reduce thread
damage on the rudder shaft caused by the set screws. Using the wheel as Ed
suggested might be worth a go.
If you would like to go into more detail on rudder removal let me know.
Simon
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Re: Stus-List Rendezvous in Florida

[Glenn Henderson via CnC-List]

I have WeGo, '86 C&C 41 in Treasure Island, FL. I would be able to meet in
Venice/Sarasota/Tampa Ba area.

Glenn Henderson

On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 3:13 PM  wrote:

> Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re:  C&C Rendezvous -- Florida (February 2020?) (Richard Bush)
>2. Re:  C&C Rendezvous -- Florida (February 2020?) (Edd Schillay)
>
>
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Richard Bush 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 20:07:31 + (UTC)
> Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C Rendezvous -- Florida (February 2020?)
> Okay, for those of us in the hinterlands, what is Talos IV...?
>
> Richard
> s/v Bushmark4P: 1985 C&C 37 CB; Ohio River, Mile 596;
> Richard N. Bush Law Offices
> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
> 502-584-7255
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
> To: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
> Cc: Edd Schillay 
> Sent: Tue, Nov 5, 2019 3:03 pm
> Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C Rendezvous -- Florida (February 2020?)
>
> Jon,
>
> My January schedule is a little tight, but it’s possible. Nevertheless,
> let me know when you’re around and let’s meet up.
>
> And Matt, you know Talos IV is off limits. :-)
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Captain of the Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> Venice Yacht Club | Venice, FL
>
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 5, 2019, at 2:59 PM, JP Mail via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
> I’ll be down in Cape Haize (just south of Venice in January without
> benefit of boat. . Try to do then.
> Please.
> Jon
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 5, 2019, at 2:49 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Listers,
>
> There appears to be some interest in a winter rendezvous in sunny Florida
> — here are a few thoughts:
>
> 1. As you know, Florida has two coasts, east and west, with the Enterprise
> and Water Phantom on the west coast (35 miles apart) and some others on the
> east coast. I think the idea of having an actual boat rendezvous in a place
> that is reachable for people to sail to is pretty slim. I also know of
> three other C&Cs in the gulf coast and Tampa Bay areas.
>
> 2. Because we all boat here year-round (suck it, northerners!) marina
> space for more than a handful of boats seems to be a stretch. Then again,
> see #1 above.
>
> 3. That being said, I could organize a C&C Owners’ Rendezvous in Sarasota
> (even at my club in Venice), Tampa, Miami, Fort Lauderdale, or other such
> place that could be an easy drive or flight.
>
>
> I welcome everyone’s (even David Risch’s) thoughts and then I’ll put out a
> survey. Should we have a owners’ rendezvous, what kinds of things would you
> like the group to do (You know, besides eat and drink) — seminar, guest
> speaker, etc.?
>
> If we were to do something in the Venice - Sarasota - Tampa - Clearwater
> area, I’m sure we could get the Enterprise and Water Phantom, and perhaps
> one or two more, to a location. I am confident that I can organize hotel
> (or hotel options) and a place for us to meet as I do marketing and event
> planning for a living.
>
> Warning though -- I understand in February it can be a little chilly here,
> with highs in the mid 70s. Br. (Insert evil laugh here.)
>
> Chime in, folks. Please.
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Captain of the Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> Venice Yacht Club | Venice, FL
>
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --  https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
>
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> Fr

Re: Stus-List Universal Diesel harness upgrade

[dwight veinot via CnC-List]

Chuck, thanks ever so much for the excellent article on the Universal
diesel engine harness upgrade.  Alianna has an M4-30 which has exactly
the engine panel shown in the photo and the wiring harness is also as
described.  I have noticed a low charging voltage so I removed the
alternator and had it shop tested only to find out it was working
properly.  Now I know more about the source of the problem and
rewiring that system will be first on my to do list next spring.  The
instructions in the article make it seem like I should be able to do
this myself.  I also noticed that when starting the motor my chart
plotter, if on, always turns off and then restarts...I am hoping that
fixing this dangerous wire harness issue will resolve that problem
too.
Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
d.ve...@bellaliant.net


On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 6:04 PM Chuck Saur via CnC-List
 wrote:
>
> Hello from already snowy Michigan.
> Seems the 1990 M-35 I have for power in my boat is, well, not really designed 
> well in the wiring department. I have read stuff describing it as "dangerous" 
> to "fatal" and worse.  There appear to be two related issues:  First, that 
> the harness is not capable of the loads to and from the alternator, ammeter 
> and starter, (plus glow plugs) and two, that the light blue 'trailer harness' 
> connectors fail and burn.  I've read several posts at different websites, and 
> a great fix explained here:
> https://marinehowto.com/universal-diesel-engine-wiring-harness-upgrade/
>
> I wonder who on our expert list has tackled this problem.  I am considering 
> fixing what I have, or purchasing a new gauge panel and all wiring. You can 
> do that from Catalina Direct and others.
> Any experience or opinions from fellow Universal owners?
>
>
>
> Chuck Saur
>
> Daydream C&C 37+
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>

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Re: Stus-List Latest / last season sail

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

I am at Castle Harbor marina. The electricity is hooked up 12 months a year. 
The marina would have some very irate customers if they turned off the power! 
There would be some cold and angry people chasing the dock hands.
I don’t have a permanent water hookup. When it is above freezing I use the dock 
faucet right next to my boat. When it looks like the pipe might freeze that all 
gets drained and turned off. Then I have to string a hose about 80 feet to the 
frost proof faucet for water if I need it. The live-aboards run hoses around 
the marina underwater on the bottom with lines attached. They pull them up to 
use them and then sink them again when finished. They don’t freeze on the 
bottom. I will usually put anti-freeze in the water tanks after Christmas, so 
the main use I have for water is washing the boat until spring.


Joe Della Barba Coquina C&C 35  MK I
www.dellabarba.com



From: Richard Bush [mailto:bushma...@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2019 10:49 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Stus-List Latest / last season sail

Joe, where, on Kent Island are you berthed?  Do you leave the water and 
electric hooked up all winter? Thanks

Richard
s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C&C 37 CB: Ohio River Mile 596;
Richard N. Bush Law Offices
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
502-584-7255


-Original Message-
From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
Cc: Della Barba, Joe mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov>>
Sent: Wed, Nov 6, 2019 10:38 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Latest / last season sail
It varies. Some years we are out pretty much every month of the year and some 
years either the weather is awful or the boat is taken apart for winter 
projects. We have done Thanksgiving cruises a few times, Christmas sails a few 
times, New Years Day sails every now and then.
A lot hinges on how many times I feel like winterizing the engine vs. trusting 
the cabin heat to stay on and a lot hinges on how many projects I want to do in 
the off season vs. not doing them at all or taking up time when it is nicer 
out. We are actually more likely to get decent days in January or February vs. 
March and April. In Maryland we have this annoying thing I call "Instant 
Summer" where all of March, all of April, and some of May are cold, windy, and 
pouring rain. Then one day in May you go to sleep with the heat on and wake up 
the next day and it is going to be 90 degrees!
* just remembered, one year it was cold enough for ice in the river and as soon 
as the ice was passable we went to Rock Hall and the marina was so amazed 
anyone showed up we got a free slip! One year over Thanksgiving, once again in 
Rock Hall, Saturday was about 45 degrees and blowing hard with rain. We bundled 
our infant son into the dinghy for the 200 yard ride across to Sailing Emporium 
to get some hot cocoa and do some shopping. When we tied up they asked where we 
were from and we said Kent Island. They looked at the dinghy, looked at the 
baby, and insisted they would put the dinghy on a trailer and tow it back to 
Kent Island with us in the truck. It took a second to realize they thought we 
came ALL THE WAY in the dinghy, not just across the fairway!


Joe Della Barba  Coquina C&C 35  MK I
www.dellabarba.com



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Re: Stus-List Latest / last season sail

[Richard Bush via CnC-List]

 Joe, where, on Kent Island are you berthed?  Do you leave the water and 
electric hooked up all winter? Thanks
 
Richard
 s/v Bushmark4: 1985 C&C 37 CB: Ohio River Mile 596;
Richard N. Bush Law Offices 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine 
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255 
 
-Original Message-
From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Della Barba, Joe 
Sent: Wed, Nov 6, 2019 10:38 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List Latest / last season sail

It varies. Some years we are out pretty much every month of the year and some 
years either the weather is awful or the boat is taken apart for winter 
projects. We have done Thanksgiving cruises a few times, Christmas sails a few 
times, New Years Day sails every now and then.
A lot hinges on how many times I feel like winterizing the engine vs. trusting 
the cabin heat to stay on and a lot hinges on how many projects I want to do in 
the off season vs. not doing them at all or taking up time when it is nicer 
out. We are actually more likely to get decent days in January or February vs. 
March and April. In Maryland we have this annoying thing I call "Instant 
Summer" where all of March, all of April, and some of May are cold, windy, and 
pouring rain. Then one day in May you go to sleep with the heat on and wake up 
the next day and it is going to be 90 degrees!
* just remembered, one year it was cold enough for ice in the river and as soon 
as the ice was passable we went to Rock Hall and the marina was so amazed 
anyone showed up we got a free slip! One year over Thanksgiving, once again in 
Rock Hall, Saturday was about 45 degrees and blowing hard with rain. We bundled 
our infant son into the dinghy for the 200 yard ride across to Sailing Emporium 
to get some hot cocoa and do some shopping. When we tied up they asked where we 
were from and we said Kent Island. They looked at the dinghy, looked at the 
baby, and insisted they would put the dinghy on a trailer and tow it back to 
Kent Island with us in the truck. It took a second to realize they thought we 
came ALL THE WAY in the dinghy, not just across the fairway! 


Joe Della Barba      Coquina C&C 35  MK I
www.dellabarba.com



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Re: Stus-List Toe Rail Resealing

[Shawn Wright via CnC-List]

I have now tightened all toerail nuts except those in the anchor locker.
Yesterday, while helping my neighbour with his boat, I decided to let the
hose run down the inside of the toerail for a while. The only leaks evident
were from the windlass switches (sealed by PO with silicone) and the pulpit
bases, which have been re-sealed and do not appear to have butyl under
them. I will be tackling the bow section next. It is still possible that
leaks may occur from below when in rough seas (since that is when more
water appears in the bilge), but I now suspect that most if not all of that
water may be coming in from the bow fittings area. So I am hopeful that my
toerail is dry, and I don't really know if it was leaking before, but it
was certainly due for tightening. It took some time (like a day or two)
before I noticed fresh butyl oozing out from below, so don't expect to see
it right away.

--
Shawn Wright
shawngwri...@gmail.com
S/V Callisto, 1974 C&C 35
https://www.facebook.com/SVCallisto


On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 5:30 AM Dennis C. via CnC-List 
wrote:

> Jim,
>
> As others have said, the "conventional wisdom" here on the list is NOT to
> pull the toe rail.  It is also the collective opinion that overtightening
> the bolts will squeeze out the original butyl which may result in leakage.
>
> Many of us have simply tightened, but not overtightened the fasteners.
> Some have removed the occasional troublesome fastener, added butyl and
> re-installed.
>
> I snugged up Touche's toe rail fasteners when I first bought the boat 20
> years ago.  Then I ran multiple beads of Captain Tolley's Creeping Crack
> Cure down the inboard toe rail/deck interface.  It's a milky liquid which
> easily penetrates the joint then cures.
>
> When I first started, I put on 6-8 applications.  This can be done in a
> day or two since the stuff cures fairly quickly.
>
> Over the next few years, It was part of my spring maintenance to add a
> bead or two.  Now I do it every 2-3 years.  Touche's toe rail leakage is
> negligible.
>
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List Latest / last season sail

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

It varies. Some years we are out pretty much every month of the year and some 
years either the weather is awful or the boat is taken apart for winter 
projects. We have done Thanksgiving cruises a few times, Christmas sails a few 
times, New Years Day sails every now and then.
A lot hinges on how many times I feel like winterizing the engine vs. trusting 
the cabin heat to stay on and a lot hinges on how many projects I want to do in 
the off season vs. not doing them at all or taking up time when it is nicer 
out. We are actually more likely to get decent days in January or February vs. 
March and April. In Maryland we have this annoying thing I call "Instant 
Summer" where all of March, all of April, and some of May are cold, windy, and 
pouring rain. Then one day in May you go to sleep with the heat on and wake up 
the next day and it is going to be 90 degrees!
* just remembered, one year it was cold enough for ice in the river and as soon 
as the ice was passable we went to Rock Hall and the marina was so amazed 
anyone showed up we got a free slip! One year over Thanksgiving, once again in 
Rock Hall, Saturday was about 45 degrees and blowing hard with rain. We bundled 
our infant son into the dinghy for the 200 yard ride across to Sailing Emporium 
to get some hot cocoa and do some shopping. When we tied up they asked where we 
were from and we said Kent Island. They looked at the dinghy, looked at the 
baby, and insisted they would put the dinghy on a trailer and tow it back to 
Kent Island with us in the truck. It took a second to realize they thought we 
came ALL THE WAY in the dinghy, not just across the fairway! 


Joe Della Barba  Coquina C&C 35  MK I
www.dellabarba.com


> On Nov 6, 2019, at 7:21 AM, Thomas Perison via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello all -
> 
> I don’t post much (at all!) but enjoy reading about the C&Cs.  
> 
> Thought I’d check if anyone is going to the Reedville, VA / mid-Chesapeake 
> Oyster Roast this Sat.  I’m sailing Therapy there, with a fellow vet, from 
> the Solomons on FRI. 
> 
> Also curious if anyone sails thru the ‘winter’ here on the Bay….I’m 
> originally from Buffalo - winters here are more like an extended fall !  ;)
> 
> At least I will have Wind!
> 
> Cheers -
> 
> Tom 
> “Therapy”
> ’84 C&C 29 MKII
> ___
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Re: Stus-List Latest / last season sail

[Dave Godwin via CnC-List]

Hi Tom,

I’m normally one of the oyster “cookers” for that event but am currently on my 
way to N. C. 

Our house is four doors away from the museum. My dock is under re-construction 
at the moment but will be done on Thursday. Feel free to use it if you wish. 

Contact me off-list for details. 

Regards,
Dave Godwin
1982 C&C 37 - Ronin

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 6, 2019, at 7:21 AM, Thomas Perison via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello all -
> 
> I don’t post much (at all!) but enjoy reading about the C&Cs.  
> 
> Thought I’d check if anyone is going to the Reedville, VA / mid-Chesapeake 
> Oyster Roast this Sat.  I’m sailing Therapy there, with a fellow vet, from 
> the Solomons on FRI. 
> 
> Also curious if anyone sails thru the ‘winter’ here on the Bay….I’m 
> originally from Buffalo - winters here are more like an extended fall !  ;)
> 
> At least I will have Wind!
> 
> Cheers -
> 
> Tom 
> “Therapy”
> ’84 C&C 29 MKII
> ___
> 
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
> every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use 
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 


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Re: Stus-List Rudder lubrication Landfall 38

[Dreuge via CnC-List]

Fred,

I had no problem regarding the upper collar and set screws, but I had a HUGE 
problem removing the steering radial drive from the rudder shaft.  

The four bolts holding the radial drive to the shaft were completely galled 
together.   Even though I had plenty of work space, as I had the engine and 
fuel tank removed, I could not break the bolts free.   I tried a combination of 
heat, PB Blaster, Kroil (better than PB Blaster), time, and a huge breaker bar. 
   Nada.  I then used a Dremel to cut the bolt heads off.  But even with the 
bolts heads removed, the radial would not separate.   I ended up running a 
sawzall blade from the outside edge along the radial separation cutting the 
bolts at the separation junction.  Success!  This would not have been doable 
with the fuel tank in place.I was able to restore the old radial drive by 
drilling out the old stainless steel bolts.  During the reinstallation, I used 
316 SS bolts (McMaster-Carr) with locking nuts and washers and PLENTY of 
Tef-Gel.   

Hopefully, your radial drive bolts were previously installed using some type of 
grease or Tef-Gel so that you don’t have the same galling problem.   But If you 
run into a similar problem, before considering to remove the fuel tank, I would 
spin the rudder such that you could drill the old bolts from the threaded end 
(opposite bolt head) of the radial drive. Since the old old bolts don’t go all 
the way through, the threaded hole would provide a guide.  It should be 
possible to do this with a good hand drill, several good bits of different 
sizes, and a good oil like Kroil.  The key to drilling out stainless bolts is 
to drill very slowly. 

Here is a link to the write up of my past rudder work.

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/2014/12/rudder-and-steering.html


-
Paul E.
1981 C&C Landfall 38 
S/V Johanna Rose
Fort Walton Beach, FL

http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/

> On Nov 6, 2019, at 7:39 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote:
> 
> Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2019 17:00:27 -1000
> From: Frederick G Street mailto:f...@postaudio.net>>
> To: Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List  >
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Rudder lubrication Landfall 38
> Message-ID: <56e8004f-4615-451e-bf53-1a303308e...@postaudio.net 
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Simon ? did you have any issues getting the Allen set screws loose on the 
> upper collar, and getting it off?  I?m facing dropping the rudder this 
> winter, and would appreciate any guidance on this.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> ? Fred
> 
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

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Stus-List Backstay mounting cracks

[Francois Rivard via CnC-List]

Hi David,

I have the same system which I have improved with a better block system but
there is not even a hint of over-stressing the transom.  Of note: As per
one of the prior comments I always set the adjustment back to loose before
leaving the boat.

I use it / pull it all the way down pretty much every time I sail as the
dominant winds dictate being close hauled when going the length of the
lake.

It seems to me you should take a look at the pre-load on your mast and make
sure it's not excessive. Unless something else is amiss you potentially
have too much mast pre-load and are over-stressing the mounts.

You can check that by having the main halyard attached to the gooseneck,
pull it tight, and go in the cabin then look up through one of the small
hatches above the table.  You should see the halyard being about 2-3 inches
off the mast at the deepest pat of the curve ( roughly mid way up the mast
) with the backstay adjustment loose.

Adjusted that way you'll also see that the top of the mast moves about 6
inches when cranking on the backstay which seems plenty to get the desired
effects going up-wind.  I  literally see the boat point-up a few degrees
and accelerate when I crank on the backstay.

I hope that helps

-Francois
1990 34+ "Take Five"
Lake Lanier, GA
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Stus-List Florida rendezvous

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

I would welcome a Florida rendezvous but not in February.  I'm out in the
Rockies skiing for most of that month.  Early March would be good.
Although I live in Louisiana, Touche' is in Pensacola.  It's only a 6-7
hour drive from Pensacola to Tampa.

A 7 hour drive is nothing compared to my upcoming 40 hour
Louisiana/Colorado/Jackson Hole/Salt Lake/Aspen, CO/Louisiana ski trip
drive.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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Re: Stus-List Rudder lubrication Landfall 38

[ed vanderkruk via CnC-List]

On Prime Interest one of the set screws wasn't even tapped all the way
through to the post. In any case I had great difficulty trying to remove
that one. Eventually used a bolt removal set. The set screws were made of
some very soft metal making removal painful.

Removing the collar was a slow process. I couldn't move it without locking
a pipe wrench on it and using the wheel to turn the rudder under it a
quarter turn at a time.

I had to re-tap the set screw holes but luckily the collar is very soft
brass/bronze. I used some harder bolts rather than putting back recessed
set screws.

Ed

Prime Interest
1982 LF38
Toronto, Canada



On Tue., Nov. 5, 2019, 10:01 p.m. Frederick G Street via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Simon — did you have any issues getting the Allen set screws loose on the
> upper collar, and getting it off?  I’m facing dropping the rudder this
> winter, and would appreciate any guidance on this.
>
> Thanks!
>
> — Fred
>
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
>
> On Nov 5, 2019, at 2:45 AM, Simon and Silvana via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> I have removed the rudder and would like guidance on the type of lubricant
> to use in the lower section where the rudder passes through the fibreglass
> tube.
> What is the best replacement material for the nylon (?) disc of the thrust
> bearing?
> Has anyone installed a grease fitting in the thrust bearing?
> Thanks
> Simon
>
> ___
>
> Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each
> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>
>
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Re: Stus-List Toe Rail Resealing

[Dennis C. via CnC-List]

Jim,

As others have said, the "conventional wisdom" here on the list is NOT to
pull the toe rail.  It is also the collective opinion that overtightening
the bolts will squeeze out the original butyl which may result in leakage.

Many of us have simply tightened, but not overtightened the fasteners.
Some have removed the occasional troublesome fastener, added butyl and
re-installed.

I snugged up Touche's toe rail fasteners when I first bought the boat 20
years ago.  Then I ran multiple beads of Captain Tolley's Creeping Crack
Cure down the inboard toe rail/deck interface.  It's a milky liquid which
easily penetrates the joint then cures.

When I first started, I put on 6-8 applications.  This can be done in a day
or two since the stuff cures fairly quickly.

Over the next few years, It was part of my spring maintenance to add a bead
or two.  Now I do it every 2-3 years.  Touche's toe rail leakage is
negligible.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA
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Re: Stus-List Toe Rail Resealing

[James Hesketh via CnC-List]

Thank you all for the helpful responses.

I did have extensive leaking from under the toerail when first getting the
boat 5 years ago and mostly stopped it by running a bead of 5200 around the
inner perimeter of the rail and figured that was a temporary fix. That 5200
had now degraded and is cracking, I'm assuming due to UV exposure.

My boat has been a Florida boat since new and I'm guessing the heat has had
an affect on the deck/hull seal -- the original butyl sealant is weeping
out and dripping down onto the inner hull (big mess); it would be an
impossible job to remove the deck to replace. Don't know why I never
thought to check the bolt tightness before it being mentioned in your
replies; they are almost all finger-loose, I'm assuming because of the
settling of the deck due to the loss of the original deck/hull sealant. I
haven't seen any weeping of the sealant between the toerail and deck

I'm currently prepping the boat for deck/cabin/cockpit painting and have
all deck hardware removed and will re-bed when refitting -- now is the time
to tackle this.

I'm thinking now my options are to go with my original plan of total R&R of
the rail -- or to pull the bolts a few at a time, work some fresh butyl
into the hole and screw the bolt back in through the sealant, tighten them
properly, and back that up with another bead of calk on the deck/rail if
needed (and redo that every few years as needed).

Thoughts . . .?

Last year I rebuilt the kingpost support in the bilge, reinforced the
bulkheads for the chain plates and did some deck repair where the chain
plates went through, did some glass/gelcoat work around the fore hatch
where it had deformed due to the mast step setteling, made a new main hatch
slider and cockpit locker rails. I enjoy bringing her back to shape, but I
do enjoy sailing more than working on her. I figure these projects will be
good for another few decades.

Thanks again,
Jim

On Tue, Nov 5, 2019 at 3:21 PM Ken Heaton via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> This link will take you (should take you?) to a drawing of the C&C toe
> rail design by 1988 or so:
>
>
> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a9bOV0skefEUTFpVkv51NwlYdrABb80JetHmGGeftc-PldDJ8aKaUXnUIPBbrBcvKjmlAtasRO2pjwvuFYHGYx4faUPYxLb6qQKvCVHCGyOcywF-TyJZ-otqWTYyRzMHyhW1gk_lBUwtLo5fCWneDsjWlqD6CRnJeEtCCFBBWfZPJrW3jkKa9XDbHwUBggCBdoTwe-RNvX66kvPmOqKceLDKSV_EP5XOhOWoQXeUCz-0ScJ-4Gp1sjozsS9lz5eAhF-tD90yYrbGwq0_6XS4DWPtJt0uznrt_3tCzJeAawhBbv0Djih947M8tI9C8dQXyqBS8EgDMI4jNvyNOZall4nFT2yDac4lhxpMginaj4poGEBeEP7_fGdoX0b-5chgfu3vt8jKOjSZ-L7I4qmez7BPkMWMhvXErtwpQihxQBb7x072jjn6Qg5xoNwTqVhxAmQuvxDP7JsD9rudEEI4256eYKGqS8Xn9iFR15-TC5nEB9NKfDGpEP4dp56zvKKmjuyqLHjVI1XSV7MZ-0IPVevvkKoVeWhHOGo-9gj4mCrG5_vce1-l-5yDPNn_uqlobzzW4rvkBtpTRx7sopLHxAuN-eBIFRL-XK9Nbc5KiAeE1v7wGxD-yXd_Gq5SawAeb0MYBGaStF_TMeW6Ve6bdGP1dMUCJf0si24nNuPdBYqU5MJSH5LanQ=w805-h1057-no
>
> I realise the older boats are a bit different as the Rub Rail is part of
> the 'sandwich' in the older ones.
>
> Ken H.
>
> On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 at 14:34, Rick Brass via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> I think you’ll find the consensus of advice to be “Don’t do it.”
>>
>>
>>
>> The hull to deck joint and toe rail on the older C&Cs is a pretty well
>> engineered setup that will last a lifetime. There are several  hundred of
>> us on the list, and I suspect the number who have had leaks in the toe rail
>> or hull to deck join is near single digits.
>>
>>
>>
>> Basically the joint (from bottom to  top) is as follows: Inward facing
>> flange on the hull, layer of butyl, rubber rub rail riveted to the hull
>> flange, another layer of butyl, the deck, another layer of butyl, the toe
>> rail, then it is all through bolted with stainless oval head machine
>> screws. My 25 has screws every 6” (IIRC) and my 38 is bolted every 4”.
>> Removing the bolts and toe rail can possibly compromise every layer of the
>> seal.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you have an owners’ manual (or buy one from the Photo Album website)
>> you can see a cross section of the joint.
>>
>>
>>
>> In almost all cases the recommended fix for a leak (which seem to mostly
>> be around the machine screws) is to tighten the through bolts about ½ to a
>> full turn, and apply Captain Tolley’s Creeping Crack Cure to the inside
>> edge of the toe rail to deck joint.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tightening the bolts is a two man job – the person on top holds the screw
>> in place so it does not turn (which breaks the seal of the butyl and can
>> result in a leak) while the person below tightens the nut a bit. Be careful
>> not to overtighten the nut because you can squeeze all of the butyl out of
>> the joint.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rick Brass
>>
>> Imzadi  C&C 38 mk2 #47
>>
>> la Belle Aurore  C&C 25 mk1 #225
>>
>> Washington, NC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *James
>> Hesketh via CnC-List
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 5, 2019 7:52 AM
>> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> *Cc:* James Hesketh 
>> *Subject:* Stu

Stus-List Latest / last season sail

[Thomas Perison via CnC-List]

Hello all -

I don’t post much (at all!) but enjoy reading about the C&Cs.  

Thought I’d check if anyone is going to the Reedville, VA / mid-Chesapeake 
Oyster Roast this Sat.  I’m sailing Therapy there, with a fellow vet, from the 
Solomons on FRI. 

Also curious if anyone sails thru the ‘winter’ here on the Bay….I’m originally 
from Buffalo - winters here are more like an extended fall !  ;)

At least I will have Wind!

Cheers -

Tom 
“Therapy”
’84 C&C 29 MKII
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