Stus-List Re: 25 MKII - Smiling?

[Stephen Kidd via CnC-List]

Good idea, and it makes sense to check. I'm pretty certain nothing has been
tinkered with, given the consistent patina and materials throughout, but
we've had her all of 4 of her 42 years.

The hull is indeed solid fiberglass with a cored deck. So at least it's not
the scariest of the scary.

I've got to say thanks for the the Windstar blog! It's an incredible
resource and our go-to for getting a sense of how these boats fit together.


On Fri, Mar 18, 2022, 8:45 PM Dave S  wrote:

> Another thought, and this may seem like a silly question - has the boat
> been modified in any way?   Any structure removed?
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 18, 2022, at 7:50 PM, Dave S  wrote:
>
> Curious.   If the hull is solid glass or cored and sound I’d tackle a diy
> repair without hesitation, provided you are handy and are either willing to
> learn about the techniques and material involved or have a knowledgeable
> friend who can help.  There are many here who can help identify well
> intentioned bad advice.
> HOWEVER- is this hull balsa cored below the waterline?  One  very nasty
> possible hypothesis is that the keel support structures- transverse
> ‘floors’ (beams) and bulkheads are bonded to the inner skin of a failed
> cored hull.  This (I’d imagine) might cause what you are describing.
> Now that I’ve scared you I’ll say I have no idea how the 25-2’s hull is
> built, but this does fit the description.  Even that could be fixed but it
> might be an involved and complex job, again depending on how the boat is
> built.
>
> Dave 33-2 windstar
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 18, 2022, at 7:32 PM, Stephen Kidd via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> 
> Greetings,
>
> I wanted to give an update on the keel wobble on our 25 MKII. It took a
> while for us to get our ducks and the weather in a row, but it gave us time
> to do a lot of reading and research following the leads provided through
> the list. As our next step in investigating the keel wobble, we tightened
> the bolts and checked the keel with the boat in slings. Torquing the bolts
> went smoothly using a torque wrench, torque multiplier and an extra deep
> socket. Before tightening, we backed them up a little, and they all budged
> with between 100 - 150 ft/lbs of torque on the wrench. We were able to
> torque the keel bolts to 350 ft/lbs, and there was no indication of the
> bolt spinning or washers digging into the glass.
>
> We then had the boat lifted in slings, and the keel continued to flex with
> a moderate push with a foot. At this point, I noticed that the flex wasn't
> between the keel and the hull (that was encouraging!), but it was the
> entire hull flexing. I then climbed aboard and asked the very
> accommodating marina manager to wiggle the keel, which he did with vigor.
> The entire bottom of the bilge visibly flexed. Interestingly to me, the
> keel bolts didn't appear to move relative to the rest of the hull,
> everything was in it together. The hull/keel joint actually seems pretty
> solid, so I am glad that we took this step before dropping the keel.
> The hull flexing is something we should have caught right away, but we
> looked right past it because we assumed it was the hull/keel joint.
>
> Even if the hull/keel joint is off the hook for the wobble, from past
> discussions on this list and elsewhere, I suspect this is not a good
> finding. We have seen cases where people have made significant and
> impressive structural repairs, many of which have been referenced here on
> the list, to increase rigidity. The both of us carefully inspected the
> bilge area for signs of cracking or separation, and we have not identified
> anything obvious (untrained eyes). Thus, we would not know what to fix were
> we to go that route. The marina manager is similarly at a loss. I'm also
> not comfortable not knowing why the hull is visibly flexing. At the same
> time, several sailors at the marina suggested that she's probably fine and
> we should just go sailing and keep an eye on it. As tempting as that is,
> that's beyond our comfort zone.
>
> So, that's the general outcome of the wobbly keel investigation. I do have
> a question: Is this a repair that a reasonable person would be able to take
> on? I'm not sure that person would be me, but I do not want to scrap a boat
> that someone could make good use of. Afterall, she has been an incredible
> boat for us and is undeniably an adorable 25' C
>
> Many thanks,
> Stephen
>
>
Please trim your messages before sending to the list.  Thankx

Stus-List Re: 25 MKII - Smiling?

[Stephen Kidd via CnC-List]

Greetings,

I wanted to give an update on the keel wobble on our 25 MKII. It took a
while for us to get our ducks and the weather in a row, but it gave us time
to do a lot of reading and research following the leads provided through
the list. As our next step in investigating the keel wobble, we tightened
the bolts and checked the keel with the boat in slings. Torquing the bolts
went smoothly using a torque wrench, torque multiplier and an extra deep
socket. Before tightening, we backed them up a little, and they all budged
with between 100 - 150 ft/lbs of torque on the wrench. We were able to
torque the keel bolts to 350 ft/lbs, and there was no indication of the
bolt spinning or washers digging into the glass.

We then had the boat lifted in slings, and the keel continued to flex with
a moderate push with a foot. At this point, I noticed that the flex wasn't
between the keel and the hull (that was encouraging!), but it was the
entire hull flexing. I then climbed aboard and asked the very
accommodating marina manager to wiggle the keel, which he did with vigor.
The entire bottom of the bilge visibly flexed. Interestingly to me, the
keel bolts didn't appear to move relative to the rest of the hull,
everything was in it together. The hull/keel joint actually seems pretty
solid, so I am glad that we took this step before dropping the keel.
The hull flexing is something we should have caught right away, but we
looked right past it because we assumed it was the hull/keel joint.

Even if the hull/keel joint is off the hook for the wobble, from past
discussions on this list and elsewhere, I suspect this is not a good
finding. We have seen cases where people have made significant and
impressive structural repairs, many of which have been referenced here on
the list, to increase rigidity. The both of us carefully inspected the
bilge area for signs of cracking or separation, and we have not identified
anything obvious (untrained eyes). Thus, we would not know what to fix were
we to go that route. The marina manager is similarly at a loss. I'm also
not comfortable not knowing why the hull is visibly flexing. At the same
time, several sailors at the marina suggested that she's probably fine and
we should just go sailing and keep an eye on it. As tempting as that is,
that's beyond our comfort zone.

So, that's the general outcome of the wobbly keel investigation. I do have
a question: Is this a repair that a reasonable person would be able to take
on? I'm not sure that person would be me, but I do not want to scrap a boat
that someone could make good use of. Afterall, she has been an incredible
boat for us and is undeniably an adorable 25' C

Many thanks,
Stephen


>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 2, 2022 at 3:32 PM Stephen Kidd via CnC-List <
>>>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>> Happy New Year! We're hoping to get some insights on an issue we are
>>>> having with our keel. We recently had our 25 MKII hauled for some winter
>>>> projects and were surprised to see that the keel "wiggled" when the boat
>>>> was on the travel lift, a little bit laterally.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've uploaded some photos of the keel and the keel bolts
>>>> <https://photos.app.goo.gl/TVsmhMAwwJUQEEee8>. Here are some
>>>> observations:
>>>>
>>>> 1) No signs of weeping from the keel joint and no visible separation
>>>> when lifted from the stands.
>>>>
>>>> 2) None of the keel bolts (3 in total) leak.
>>>>
>>>> 3) Crack at the aft end doesn't look typical of the C smile based on
>>>> internet searches.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Should we torque the keel bolts, grind out the crack, fill (G-flex?),
>>>> fair, and paint, or is this beyond a "smile" fix?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Stephen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
Please trim your messages before sending to the list.  Thankx

Stus-List Re: 25 MKII - Smiling?

[Stephen Kidd via CnC-List]

These responses are super helpful! Four years in, we remain novices,
which makes it hard to even know the questions to ask. No matter the
approach we take, it is clear that replacing the washers and adding backing
plates is part of the project. I was a little perplexed by the aft keel
bolt washers and unsuccessfully poked around the internet for a while
trying to figure out if that was normal or something done by a previous
owner.

We did have a soft grounding in mud on the side of a channel while motoring
back to our marina this fall (in full view of everyone, including incoming
flights to DCA, of course). We were going pretty slow and ended up
drifting/sliding off, but physics is tricky, so I have no idea what was
going on down there. About a week later we had the boat hauled and
transported by trailer to her new home about an hour away. Maybe that
loosened things up? Luckily we now have better access to boatyards. We've
had folk from two take a look at the keel while the boat was in slings (our
new marina and another boatyard), but have not had a formal survey. While
we got an estimate for the keel-drop/re-bedding, both suggested that the
tightening/filling route is an option. There is also the "another boat"
option to consider. It is greener, and just on the other side of the fence.

So, my new question is, if we do have keel bolt degradation, bolt hole
elongation (not entirely sure what this is, but it sounds dire), or
structural damage to the sump, would we still expect wiggle after
tightening? In other words, if we tighten the keel bolts and wiggle ceases,
has the problem most likely been resolved?

Thank you for the insights!


>
> *From:* Bill Coleman via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Monday, January 03, 2022 12:35 PM
> *To:* 'Stus-List' 
> *Cc:* Bill Coleman 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Re: 25 MKII - Smiling?
>
>
>
> I have to agree with Dwight on the backing plates, ESPECIALLY the aft most
> one, I think. It looks like they cut the edges off the stack of washers, so
> the nut would fit in that tight space with a socket. I can see where the
> washers rotated with the tightening, and are chewing into the fiberglass
> big time. Maybe a 3/8” plate that just fits into that space, then either a
> short piece of heavywall SS Pipe as a spacer and then a couple washers, or
> take that stack of washers and orient them correctly, and compress them
> with a bolt onto the backing plate, and have a welder fuse them together
> with a TIG without getting it too hot. Just enough to keep them from
> rotating. Then put in back in and tighten it up to specs.
>
>
>
>
>
> Bill Coleman
>
> Entrada, Erie, PA
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 2, 2022 at 3:32 PM Stephen Kidd via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
> Happy New Year! We're hoping to get some insights on an issue we are
> having with our keel. We recently had our 25 MKII hauled for some winter
> projects and were surprised to see that the keel "wiggled" when the boat
> was on the travel lift, a little bit laterally.
>
>
>
> I've uploaded some photos of the keel and the keel bolts
> <https://photos.app.goo.gl/TVsmhMAwwJUQEEee8>. Here are some observations:
>
> 1) No signs of weeping from the keel joint and no visible separation when
> lifted from the stands.
>
> 2) None of the keel bolts (3 in total) leak.
>
> 3) Crack at the aft end doesn't look typical of the C smile based on
> internet searches.
>
>
>
> Should we torque the keel bolts, grind out the crack, fill (G-flex?),
> fair, and paint, or is this beyond a "smile" fix?
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Stephen
>
>
>
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List 25 MKII - Smiling?

[Stephen Kidd via CnC-List]

Happy New Year! We're hoping to get some insights on an issue we are having
with our keel. We recently had our 25 MKII hauled for some winter projects
and were surprised to see that the keel "wiggled" when the boat was on the
travel lift, a little bit laterally.

I've uploaded some photos of the keel and the keel bolts
. Here are some observations:
1) No signs of weeping from the keel joint and no visible separation when
lifted from the stands.
2) None of the keel bolts (3 in total) leak.
3) Crack at the aft end doesn't look typical of the C smile based on
internet searches.

Should we torque the keel bolts, grind out the crack, fill (G-flex?), fair,
and paint, or is this beyond a "smile" fix?

Thanks!
Stephen
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Prepping for overland transport

[Stephen Kidd via CnC-List]

We brought her up from Edgewater MD in 2017 via the Potomac and it is a
pretty interesting trip that I'd happily recommend! Still, it is a
solid four days if everything goes well. Last time we interrupted the trip
due to a couple days of strong thunderstorms. It took five days, not
including the week she sat scared and lonely at a strange (but friendly!)
marina with little more than a committee of buzzards for company. With
work/travel obligations keeping us busy until late October, the shorter
days will be a challenge with a 3.5 cruising speed (motoring with hope of
some sailing). To the 25's credit, we only managed to average about 4.5
over a week and half on a Bavaria 41 (mostly low winds, but still). This
option is very much on the table. We had a feeling this suggestion would
come up pretty quick. It's a good one!




On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 8:09 PM Neil Andersen via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I’m with Gary, why truck?
>
> Neil Andersen
> 1982 C, FoxFire
> Rock Hall, MD 21661
> 484-354-8800
> --
> *From:* Gary Nylander via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 28, 2021 8:01:36 PM
> *To:* 'Stus-List' 
> *Cc:* Gary Nylander 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Re: Prepping for overland transport
>
>
> Why are you not thinking about just motoring it down the Potomac and
> around to Solomons? It could be an adventure and avoid the hassles. Is the
> mast still up? Could you find a yard in Solomons who would do the work?
> Just asking. To me (with a 30-1) putting it on a truck for 100 miles seems
> not right.
>
>
>
> Gary
>
> St. Michaels MD
>
>
>
> *From:* Stephen Kidd via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 28, 2021 9:32 AM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Cc:* Stephen Kidd 
> *Subject:* Stus-List Prepping for overland transport
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> The excellent advise a couple weeks ago on replacing standing rigging led
> us down a rabbit hole. Long story short, we are now getting ready to have
> our 25, Sweet Chariot, moved from Washington DC to Solomons MD on the
> Chesapeake. A much longer drive, but better sailing and boat yard options.
>
>
>
> We've never had her moved by trailer, and I'm curious what we should
> expect of the hauler. One says we should have the boat fully prepped with
> mast secured to deck. Another said they prefer to do it all themselves
> (which I also prefer).
>
>
>
> Any tips for getting her ready for a road trip or dealing with boat
> haulers? We've checked with a few people in the area, but any
> recommendations would be appreciated as well!
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Stephen
>
>
>
> Just asking
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Prepping for overland transport

[Stephen Kidd via CnC-List]

Hi all,

The excellent advise a couple weeks ago on replacing standing rigging led
us down a rabbit hole. Long story short, we are now getting ready to have
our 25, Sweet Chariot, moved from Washington DC to Solomons MD on the
Chesapeake. A much longer drive, but better sailing and boat yard options.

We've never had her moved by trailer, and I'm curious what we should expect
of the hauler. One says we should have the boat fully prepped with mast
secured to deck. Another said they prefer to do it all themselves (which I
also prefer).

Any tips for getting her ready for a road trip or dealing with boat
haulers? We've checked with a few people in the area, but any
recommendations would be appreciated as well!

Thanks!
Stephen
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Boric Acid Powder

[Stephen Kidd via CnC-List]

Boric acid is very effective, but the spiders have to come into direct
contact with it for it to work. I use it in the garden and it protects
against all but squirrels and neglect. Spiders may be less likely to wander
into it though.

For backpacking, I spray permethrin on shoes/pants to knock out ticks and
mosquitos. It stays around for multiple washings, so might be viable for
docklines. It says it's effective against spiders.

We've been using moth balls on board for the past couple of years. They
keep the mud daubers and spiders in check. The mud daubers eat the spiders,
but can scare people. I prefer them to spiders. There are both still
aboard, but far fewer in number.

The moth ball smell hasn't been a problem, so I haven't tried any of the
alternatives but am curious if others have had success with them.
Peppermint oil sounds nice!

Regards,
Stephen
C 25 Sweet Chariot
Washington DC


On Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 12:21 PM David Swensen via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I do not know about using Boric Acid with spiders, but I know my brother
> is in Dunkirk, NY and they have mucho spiders there. He uses
> peppermint oil, and it seems to work pretty well. He dabs soaked cotton
> balls around the compalionway, hatches, and portholes, and I believe
> docklines.
>
> David Swensen
> Freya
> 35 MKIII
> Beverly, MA
>
> On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 10:48 AM Bill Coleman via CnC-List <
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone ever tried Boric Acid for spiders?
>>
>> We have gobs of them here on the lakes.
>>
>>
>>
>> Practical Sailor just had some discussion on using this for Cockroaches,
>> and I see now, silverfish and water bugs – but I see no mention of spiders.
>>
>> I am trying to get away from spider spray, for obvious reasons, and this
>> looks like a much more friendly alternative, but if it won’t work, well
>> then . . . I guess back to the drawing board.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill Coleman
>>
>> Entrada, Erie, PA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help
>> with the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list -
>> use PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> Thanks - Stu
>
> Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with
> the costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use
> PayPal to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks
> - Stu
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List C 25 mast fittings

[Stephen Kidd via CnC-List]

Greetings,

We are planning to replace our standing rigging this fall and I'm trying to
figure out what type of upper fitting is needed for the shrouds. The
owner's manual (1980 C 25 mkII) simply says "T-ball" for the forestay and
upper/lower shrouds. Looking around, it appears there are a number of
variants out there.

Assuming that T-ball and T-bar are the same in this case (please correct me
if I'm wrong on this point), I'm thinking they would be of the "old style"
since it is a 1980 model. Does anyone happen to know what sort of fittings
we'll need for the upper ends? We'll be ordering (local riggers seem to be
unavailable and the only estimate I got was $6,000), which leaves us on the
hook for figuring out the details.

We're planning on sending a GoPro up to take some pictures and look around
at things later this week, but we really don't know what to look for (any
identifying characteristics?). Step ladders make me nervous, so I'm happy
to let the camera make the first ascent.

Thank You!
Stephen Kidd
C 25 - Sweet Chariot
Washington DC
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?

[Stephen Kidd via CnC-List]

We've been using soft shackles on the toe rail for fenders and a mid-ship
cleat for about three years now. I was curious how they would wear, and
have kept a close eye on them. There has been very minor fraying over time,
even with no chafe protection. They have faded a bit, but otherwise they
are doing well. Of course, this is a 25, so loads are probably pretty
small, but the same toe rail as many of the larger C

Best,
Stephen
C 25 mkII
Washington, DC



On Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 8:06 AM Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I always thing the holes in the toe rail are sharp enough to saw through a
> line eventually. I would run my finger around the edges before using a soft
> shackle.
>
> Joe
>
> Coquina
>
>
>
> *From:* Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 10, 2021 7:54 AM
> *To:* Stus-List 
> *Cc:* Bruce Whitmore 
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Stus-List Re: midship cleats on aluminum rail?
>
>
>
> I really like the idea of a soft shackle.  Easy and cheap to install,  and
> if you still really want something more permanent, you can always add it.
>
> Bruce Whitmore
> 1994 C 37/40+
> "Astralis"
> Madeira Beach, FL
> (847) 404-5092
>
>
>
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Stus-List Re: Kiwi Grip

[Stephen Kidd via CnC-List]

Applying kiwi grip has been the easiest thing I've ever done on a boat. We
did our cockpit non-skid areas a couple of years ago and it looks great. We
applied more to the cabin top after refinishing and rebedding the handrails
this spring. Since I plan on refinishing the rest of the cabin top and deck
non-skid, I did minimal prep as an experiment - just a rough sanding,
cleaning, and taping. I normally fret a lot about prep. The whole thing was
super quick with just the single coat. It looks great and no evidence of
any trouble so far. The fact that you most likely do not need a primer or
multiple coats makes it pretty economical, especially considering the time
savings.

My only gripe is that rougher textures can be a little hard to keep clean,
but that doesn't seem unique to kiwi grip. There are tons of great videos
and info on getting various textures. I went with a foam roller on the
cabin top to get a smoother look.

The kiwi grip I got last spring came in plastic pouches instead of cans.
You just squeeze it out as you go, and it keeps very well. It's actually
pretty fun.

Regards,
Stephen
C 25
Washington DC

On Tue, Jan 26, 2021, 9:01 AM WILLIAM WALKER via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I did my cockpit sole about 5 years ago.  Still looks great.  I am a OEM
> kind of guy, and it looks and feels like original.  Two suggestions, 1.
> Practice a little on a piece of plywood to get the feel for texture you
> want. 2. Get a bunch of paint chips from Home Depot, etc. to match your
> color and they will tint for free, at least mine did.
> Took less than one quart.
> Bill Walker
> C & C 36
> Pentwater, Mi.
>
>
>
Thanks to all of the subscribers that contributed to the list to help with the 
costs involved.  If you want to show your support to the list - use PayPal to 
send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray  Thanks - Stu

Re: Stus-List 25 mk II Not level in the water

[Stephen Kidd via CnC-List]

The 25 mkII does have a swept back keel. I also have water pool in the same
places, but some old rope looped though the toe rail has been working well.

The lines of the mkII are very nice, and it is a beautiful 25'. Mine is on
a dock with a number of Catalinas and the like. I'm always very pleased
with the looks of the C in comparison. I just need to get the topsides
painted (probably DIY, I can't find a boat yard that seems interested in
providing a quote for a small boat, which I expect would be pretty high
anyway). Of course, by then we'll probably want one of her bigger sisters
:-).

Stephen

That makes me curious as to why my 25 mk1 sits with the cockpit sole level
when she sits on her lines (so any water disappears into the scuppers),
while the water that collects on the deck because of the rocker of the
sheer lines seems to be centered about 3 feet forward of the transom.
Anyone have thoughts on an explanation? Does the Mk2 have a swept back keel
like the mk1?
___

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every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
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Re: Stus-List Not level in the water

[Stephen Kidd via CnC-List]

This was one of my first thoughts. The outboard weighs 50lbs, and then
there is another 60lbs of lifepo4 battery and a little 32ah agm in the
lazarette. The electric motor and battery is actually heavier than the
previous 8hp 4-stroke with 3 gallons of gas, but it's distributed
differently. We keep a few gallons in the water tank, but filling it up
would probably add another 20-30 lbs. We haven't had as many friends out
this summer, which might be making it more noticeable.


On Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 8:04 AM CHARLES SCHEAFFER 
wrote:

> Maybe the "design weight" aft was reduced?  Does she have a 15hp outboard
> and a fuel tank in the cockpit?
>
> C
>
___

Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions.  Each and 
every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list - use PayPal 
to send contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

Re: Stus-List 25 mk II Not level in the water

[Stephen Kidd via CnC-List]

Thank you, Richard and Bill! It's good to know it isn't anomalous.

Probably because my attentions are elsewhere, I hadn't thought to check if
things level out when I have three others in the cockpit. Three or four
people would be over 10% of empty displacement. I'm wondering if this is
the sort of thing that would be considered in the design.

Again, I greatly appreciate the input! I'm glad I asked before attempting
any interventions. I'll try the wick idea for the companionway puddle.

Regards,
Stephen
25 mkII, 566
Washington DC



On Wed, Aug 19, 2020, 11:20 PM Richard Bush  wrote:

> Stephen, I had a 25 II which sat low in the bow also; like you I had no
> gear or other weight forward, so I assumed it to be designed that
> way...perhaps, Rob Ball can shed some light on this?
>
> Richard
> s/v Bushmark4; 1095 C 37 CB: Ohio River Mile 584.4;
>
>
> Richard N. Bush Law Offices
> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462
> 502-584-7255
>
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: Stephen Kidd via CnC-List 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Stephen Kidd 
> Sent: Wed, Aug 19, 2020 7:31 pm
> Subject: Stus-List Not level in the water
>
> I've noticed that my little boat, a 25 mkII, is uneven in the water. The
> bow is probably 1-2" lower in the water than the stern when at the dock.
>
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Stus-List Not level in the water

[Stephen Kidd via CnC-List]

I've noticed that my little boat, a 25 mkII, is uneven in the water. The
bow is probably 1-2" lower in the water than the stern when at the dock. It
causes water to pool in front of the companionway and the icebox drain
isn't all that effective. She currently sits above her waterline by upwards
of 3", about 1-2" at the bow. This isn't a new development, but it's
recently made me wonder.

Before I start trying more difficult things to reduce weight up front (not
entirely sure what I'd do, I just have a spinnaker and a small anchor
stored up front), I was curious if this is especially problematic. Any
thoughts?

Thanks!
Stephen
25 mkII, 566
Washington DC
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Re: Stus-List Repowering a C 36 to Electric?

[Stephen Kidd via CnC-List]

I can't speak to electric for a larger vessel, but we switched from an 8hp
Honda outboard to an e-propulsion Navy 3 on our 25 mkII at the start of the
season. It has been great so far, and is practically silent. That did take
a little getting used to. Range anxiety is less than the fuel and carb
anxiety. We seldom motor more than 3-5 NM, and use about 1/3 of the Navy
battery each outing. We charge it up while getting the boat ready or after
a sail (or general boat work) since we neither have nor want to install AC
power onboard.

We're considering getting a Honda e2000 to have a sort of hybrid system if
we ever decide to go further out. A similar strategy might be feasible for
a larger boat. In the meantime, not having any fuel on board is very nice.
No exhaust fumes going downwind is also great.

We went through Annapolis Hybrid Marine, and they have been fantastic!

I do like diesels, but electric is working out to be a great replacement
for a noisy gas outboard. Best improvement since new sails!

- Stephen


On Tue, Aug 11, 2020, 12:44 PM CHARLES SCHEAFFER via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> My two cents.  I like my diesel, but if a repower becomes necessary, I'd
> love to go all the way and replace the shaft and cutless bearing and strut
> with an electric saildrive.  A saildrive has a lot less drag.  But the cost
> is just too high right now to justify and range is still an issue unless
> there is a huge solar panel setup to constantly charge the batteries.
>
> C
>
>
> On 08/11/2020 11:16 AM Hoyt, Mike via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
>
> I would personally go insane owning an electric sailboat.
>
>
>
> I love the rumble and slight vibration of a diesel engine.  It reassures
> me and makes me feel all warm and cozy.
>
>
>
> Having a motor with a limited range that could die at any time due to lack
> of battery power and need to be at a dock to next recharge would just put
> me on edge when going anywhere.  I can always carry more fuel and get more
> fuel but do not always have the time or availability to dock a boat and
> recharge.
>
>
>
> That is just me.  Tesla has managed to make some very excellent cars that
> do not seem to have this problem.
>
>
>
> One other thing is that if we all started having electric drives in our
> boats our marina managers would increase electricity charges to all of us.
> Our dockmaster once pointed out to me that our pricing model for
> electricity was set up around members having C 30’s that used electricity
> only to recharge a house battery and only occasionally.  Give him one more
> excuse to charge extra for electricity and he would be all over it like a
> sailor is all over rum ….
>
>
>
> Mike Hoyt
>
> Persistence
>
> Halifax, NS
>
>
>
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>
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> and every one is greatly appreciated.  If you want to support the list -
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>
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Re: Stus-List C 25 II - core replacement

[Stephen Kidd via CnC-List]

Hello list,

We're three days into a minor refurbishing. Compounding out many years of
oxidation (the boat is older than I am, to be fair), fixing some dock rash,
and recoring the cockpit bench at the cabin entrance. I'm sure there is a
boat word for that. At any rate, the instructions and insights garnered
from this list have been very helpful.

I had about 1 sq foot of rotten, soggy balsa, the surrounding area was damp
for about another 3-5 inches out. There was a stick on non-slip pad
covering a full on crack. My skepticism of stickers is confirmed. I removed
about 5 sq ft in the end, taking out at least a few inches of still good
balsa. That balsa is amazing, and I do wish I had bought a chisel. I put a
nice barrier of thickened epoxy around the remaining balsa to insulate it
from my novice repair.

All said, it's just waiting for the paint and I can step on it without fear
for the first time since taking ownership. And it's level (well, very
slight slope away from the  cabin). Pricey, and I have more power tools
than an apartment dweller should, but so very satisfying. I'm happy I gave
it a go!

All the best,
Stephen
Sweet Chariot - C 25
Washington DC
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Stus-List 1982 C 25

[Stephen Kidd via CnC-List]

I've had my C 25 MK II  (1980) for just over a year now. We're having a
great time with it. The cabin is what really drew me to her, and it's just
right for glorified camping! It has an 8 hp Honda outboard long shaft
mounted on the transom. I'm on the Potomac near DC, so the prop stays
comfortably in the water. I certainly had some frustrating hobby-horsing on
the Chesapeake where the prop was spending far too much time out of the
water. It was pretty choppy though. The 25 handles far better under sail.

I'd love to go electric, but the upgrade would be about what I paid for the
vessel :-). Also, the toe rail and hull/deck joints have needed some
attention as noted earlier. There was also a not-very-elegant silicone
caulking repair along the hull/deck joint. I removed most of that, put in
some butyl tape and re-tightened the fasteners. Took about 30 minutes. So
far, so good! The PO did some mast step repairs, so that's clearly worth
checking too. That said, I went in about as ignorant as can be and consider
myself lucky to have stumbled onto the C 25.

Best of luck!
Stephen
C 25 - Sweet Chariot
Washington DC



>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Roger Slade 
> To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com" 
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 14:26:42 + (UTC)
> Subject: Re: Stus-List 1982 C 25
> Thanks all for the input, sounds like this is the right place to get info.
> on these boats!
>
> 
>
>
>
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Re: Stus-List C 25 II - mast step concerns

[Stephen Kidd via CnC-List]

No traveler at all! Nor genoa tracks, for that matter. This might be a good
opportunity to add a main traveler. Guests really like that area, though,
so that's a trade off. We don't race, and I haven't missed the genoa tracks
all that much. At worst, the lack of pointing with the toerail blocks can
be a little frustrating.
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Re: Stus-List C 25 II - mast step concerns

[Stephen Kidd via CnC-List]

With the explanations in mind, I took a more informed look at the mast
step. First, I removed the plastic hole covers from the coach room. I poked
around with a paper clip and it is definitely epoxied in there. The other
forward one was cleaner and also only epoxy visible. The aft holes showed
no signs of any water/leaks and also epoxy.

This seemed a little odd, so I went back to the deck. I confirmed that
there are no noticable soft spots or delamination. It seems firmer,
somehow, than other areas of the deck. Taking a step back, I noticed the
outline of a repair (easily 4' x 3'). I knew portions of the hull had been
repaired, but not the mast step.

At any rate, I'm going to better seal the fittings, and start rebedding the
deck hardware (not much). I do have a soft spot in the cockpit near the
companionway. We're going to apply the repair advice to that area, which is
also a lot less intimidating, and keep a very close eye on the mast step
for now. What fun!

Stephen
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Re: Stus-List C 25 II - mast step concerns

[Stephen Kidd via CnC-List]

>
>
> The 25 Mk II is a deck stepped mast. Luckily, the bilge is dry and the
keel bolts look to be in great shape. The drips are coming from the cabin
roof where the bolts come down from mast step into the cabin ceiling
(little plastic plugs cover them on the inside).


 I really like the idea of keeping a close eye on the shroud tension as a
good, objective indicator. This is our first monohull, so some new
complexities!
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Stus-List C 25 II - mast step concerns

[Stephen Kidd via CnC-List]

Hi all,

First, having found the archives for this list incredibly helpful, I wanted
to pose a question about the mast step on my C 25 II (bought about a year
ago somewhat impulsively, I confess). Occasionally, after prolonged rains,
I'll find some water residue in the cabin under the mast step. It's dark
brown, which has me concerned, and is dripping from one of the bolt holes.
Not much, just some drops. I put some butyl around the step, which has
seemed to solve the leak.

The deck feels solid, but I'm wondering if this warrants a mast step
rebuild. A failing mast step sounds scary. Any things I should check to
diagnose? Any ideas on what a boatyard might charge to rebuild the mast
step (rate is about $100 an hour)?
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