Re: Stus-List Boom Vang for C&C 27 Mk III

[Steve Thomas]

You don't need to use a bail.
Just hook the vang shackle to the stainless steel pin in the U channel that 
confines the mast. 
That's the way my boat was when I got it 12 years ago. 
Seems to be original and it has the advantage of being a bit more centred on 
the mast than your current set-up.
It is still working fine as is and the pin hasn't bent. 
Someday I am going to install a second pin in the rear most set of holes, but I 
still haven't gotten around to it. 
My guess is that the PO of your boat had an unintended jibe when there was a 
pretty good breeze blowing. 

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Peter Fell
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 10:19 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Boom Vang for C&C 27 Mk III


My C&C 27 has a mast-step that looks like this:

http://imageshack.us/a/img191/407/ubt7.jpg

The previous owner had attached the 4:1 purchase boom vang to the 45 degree 
side plate which has resulted in bending the side plate!

It was recommended to me to use a boom/mast bail bolted across the vertical 
portion of the mast-step bracket at the aft-most set of holes, with a bolt and 
filler ‘tube’ to avoid compressing the mast step bracket. Or to replace the aft 
mast-retention pin with the same set-up.

Dimensions of the mast step (‘vertical’ bracket) are:

Outside width = 5 inches
Inside width = 4-1/4 inches
Hole diameter = 7/8 inches
Pin diameter = 5/8 inches

2 problems I am finding:

1) I can’t find a 5-inch wide bail
2) The larger size bails I have found (maybe 4 inch wide is the largest I’ve 
seen?) use a smaller bolt than 5/8 inches and no meat to drill out the holes in 
them, so there would be a lot of ‘slop’ there.

I’m also concerned that if the boom vang can bend that mast-step side plate, 
what’s it going to do to a side-loaded bail and/or the vertical mast-step 
bracket?

So ... perhaps a mast tang / hound?  (much as I hate drilling holes in the mast 
... but multiple holes would spread the load).  I have read somewhere that part 
of the side of the standard C&C mast section is thicker which helps with this 
sort of thing? Can anyone verify? Sorry, didn’t measure the mast width. There’s 
also the sail track there that would complicate a tang / hound installation.

By the way, the previous owner also bent the heck out of the through-bolt on 
the boom bail. I’ve replaced that with a new SS bolt 

Thanks!___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Boom Vang for C&C 27 Mk III

[Steve Thomas]

No, and I suspect that what you have is an aftermarket addition as was 
suggested by another poster. 
One thing about a deck stepped mast is that the force of all those stays and 
shrouds makes the mast step a convenient and well fixed strong point for 
securing blocks. 
The brackets on your boat may have been inspired by the attachment points 
sometimes provided on boats with keel stepped masts. 

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Peter Fell
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2013 1:21 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Boom Vang for C&C 27 Mk III


Thanks Steve

Does your MkIII have the 45-degree brackets as well?

From: Steve Thomas 
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2013 7:21 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Boom Vang for C&C 27 Mk III

You don't need to use a bail.
Just hook the vang shackle to the stainless steel pin in the U channel that 
confines the mast. 
That's the way my boat was when I got it 12 years ago. 
Seems to be original and it has the advantage of being a bit more centred on 
the mast than your current set-up.
It is still working fine as is and the pin hasn't bent. 
Someday I am going to install a second pin in the rear most set of holes, but I 
still haven't gotten around to it. 
My guess is that the PO of your boat had an unintended jibe when there was a 
pretty good breeze blowing. 

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Peter Fell
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 10:19 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Boom Vang for C&C 27 Mk III


My C&C 27 has a mast-step that looks like this:

http://imageshack.us/a/img191/407/ubt7.jpg

The previous owner had attached the 4:1 purchase boom vang to the 45 degree 
side plate which has resulted in bending the side plate!

It was recommended to me to use a boom/mast bail bolted across the vertical 
portion of the mast-step bracket at the aft-most set of holes, with a bolt and 
filler ‘tube’ to avoid compressing the mast step bracket. Or to replace the aft 
mast-retention pin with the same set-up.

Dimensions of the mast step (‘vertical’ bracket) are:

Outside width = 5 inches
Inside width = 4-1/4 inches
Hole diameter = 7/8 inches
Pin diameter = 5/8 inches

2 problems I am finding:

1) I can’t find a 5-inch wide bail
2) The larger size bails I have found (maybe 4 inch wide is the largest I’ve 
seen?) use a smaller bolt than 5/8 inches and no meat to drill out the holes in 
them, so there would be a lot of ‘slop’ there.

I’m also concerned that if the boom vang can bend that mast-step side plate, 
what’s it going to do to a side-loaded bail and/or the vertical mast-step 
bracket?

So ... perhaps a mast tang / hound?  (much as I hate drilling holes in the mast 
... but multiple holes would spread the load).  I have read somewhere that part 
of the side of the standard C&C mast section is thicker which helps with this 
sort of thing? Can anyone verify? Sorry, didn’t measure the mast width. There’s 
also the sail track there that would complicate a tang / hound installation.

By the way, the previous owner also bent the heck out of the through-bolt on 
the boom bail. I’ve replaced that with a new SS bolt 

Thanks!



___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List iPads for Navigation & Data Usage

[Steve Thomas]

Electronic charts are great and I use them, but some contain errors that are 
not on paper charts. Best always to use both, and do
some checking on what is considered best for the area. A couple on a catamaran 
experienced a nasty grounding when proceding south
out of Elizabeth harbour Exuma this past winter. The echart they were using 
(Maptech?) showed that they had lots of depth to get
through a certain cut. They didn't. The paper "Explorer" brand charts had it 
plotted correctly, and are considered by most to be
best for southern Bahamas.
 
We had an echart experience on a boat I was on one night south of Comox, 
Vancouver Island. I forget exactly where we were, but it
was at night and we were skirting the coast of some small island on our way to 
an anchorage when it suddenly started to shallow
real quick. A hard 90 to port and we got away from whatever it was, but it was 
not on the (cmap) chart. It was a long time ago now
and I can't remember if we ever found out what it was or not. Possibly the 
contour line was a bit smoother than it should have
been. Those islands are underwater mountain tops and the depth can change 
really fast. 
 
 
-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Gomez, Jorge K
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 1:38 PM
To: 'cnc-list@cnc-list.com'
Subject: Re: Stus-List iPads for Navigation & Data Usage


Navionics HD is excellent in Canada and the Caribeean and there is no need for 
any network connectivity as long as the IPad is
equipped with gps. Highly recomended. You need to buy the nav upgrade and 
enhanced map upgrade to get full usability but those are
only $4.99 ea. 
 

From: Andrew Burton [mailto:a.burton.sai...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 05:21 PM GMT Standard Time
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com  
Subject: Re: Stus-List iPads for Navigation & Data Usage 
 

The iPad needs to have a cellar chip. The cellular data plan does not need to 
be activated and it works well offshore. I'm using
iNavX. I don't know if they have a Canadian equivalent. For areas outside the 
US I use Navionics. Both work very well and it's
been a couple of years since I actually placed the paper charts on the nav desk.

Andy

C&C 40

Peregrine



On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Stevan Plavsa < stevanpla...@gmail.com 
 > wrote:


Hi All, 

Andrew mentioned he uses his iPad and charting software when anchoring. I 
wanted to know if one needed a data connection to use an
iPad for navigation and what software is most recommended. Is it Navionics? I'm 
working with the understanding that the
iPhone/iPad require a data connection for their GPS to work.

I have a wifi/3g iPad with a SIM card and plan but there isn't a lot of data, 
it's for "emergencies". I wonder about keeping it on
while cruising for navigation, if it's needed. I do have paper charts but want 
to use both electronic and paper.

Thanks,
Steve
Suhana, C&C 32
Toronto


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com  
CnC-List@cnc-list.com  






-- 
Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett Ave
Newport, RI
USA 02840
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ 
 
phone  +401 965 5260 
<>___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Fw: HELP aluminum bolt

[Steve Thomas]

You could try these guys. 

http://www.faccafasteners.com/index.html

I have no experience with their online service since there is a store local to 
me, but they can source just about any kind of fastener. I have had a positive 
experience with them overall, as have most of the people I've talked to on that 
subject. I got bronze wood screws for my hand rails and stainless bolts to fit 
my Yanmar from Facca for example.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Persuasion
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 8:14 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Fw: HELP aluminum bolt


yea it has a slotted head.  If I could find some 1/2” aluminum ready rod or a 
hex head bolt I could probably shape it into a flat head and slot it with a 
hacksaw. 

Mike
S/V Persuasion
C&C 37 Keel/CB
Long Sault

From: Chuck S 
Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 7:41 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List HELP aluminum bolt

Surprised Edson didn't offer a replacement of some kind.  
Are you sure you need flatheat?  Our pedestal bolts are 1/2" hex head and 6" 
cut down. 


Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ



From: "Persuasion" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 9:09:04 PM
Subject: Stus-List HELP aluminum bolt


Help

I was working on my pedestal this past weekend and one of the aluminum bolts 
only loosened about 1 1/2 turns then seized.  All I could do was drill it out.  
Now I’m having difficulty finding a replacement.  I called Edson and they 
advised me that they no longer carry the 6” bolt.  Thanks C&C for making an 
extra heavy cockpit sole.  

So does anyone know where I can source a flat head 1/2” X 6” (5” would work) 
aluminum bolt.  If a pinch I would use a stainless.

Thanks

Mike
S/V Persuasion
C&C 37 Keel/CB
Long Sault

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com




___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List 35-1 galley down light

[Steve Thomas]

Dennis,

If your winch access panel is white translucent plastic, like mine, you could 
just wire an LED array up inside and let it shine down through the panel. I 
know a guy who made his own using a piece of perf board when packaged lights 
were harder to get. I thought it looked good. There was no evidence of a light 
being there until you turned it on.

These ones look interesting, which appear to have proper drivers and are not 
expensive. What I bought was just an array of LEDs wired series parallel, but 
it worked fine in the nasty old and yellowed plastic fixtures on my 27.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/20-T10-194-921-168-W5W-24-1210-SMD-LED-Warm-White-RV-Landscaping-Light-Lamp-Bulb-/161045293312?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item257f0c2900&vxp=mtr

-Steve Thomas


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List FW: Anchor Locker II - drain?

[Steve Thomas]

There "should" be a drain hole at the very front of the anchor locker floor 
that goes down out the bow, more or less perpendicular
to the surface of the bow at that point. Can you see any evidence that there 
may have been a drain hole present at some point? It
is not a large diameter hole when present, and will not prevent locker flooding 
with a poorly sealed door and a lot of water
coming on deck. 
 
I thought that boats equipped with a chain/rode locker only (hawse pipe instead 
of door) had drains that went into the bilge. 
 
My bet is that there was some sort of provision for drainage originally.
 
Steve Thomas
 
-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Alex Giannelia
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 11:06 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List FW: Anchor Locker II - drain?



My anchor locker does not have a drain, so wet rode will either stew in its 
juices, or the water finds its way into the bilge
through limber holes.  What is the list experience in this case?

 

ALEX GIANNELIA

 

CC 35-II (1974) WILL BE RENAMED

ON THE HARD SINCE NOV. 2006

Toronto Ontario

 

<>___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Another boat

[Steve Thomas]

I can think of one advantage.
With a 29 you don't have to pay for a cruising permit to visit the United 
States.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Stevan Plavsa
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 8:22 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Another boat


Are you set on the 29? I'm biased, but I was considering the 29 as well and the 
32 offered more boat for (typically) the same
money. I'm under the impression that the 29 is a tender boat.


Steve
Suhana, C&C 32
Toronto
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List where to put the solar fan

[Steve Thomas]

The PO of my boat placed a solar vent half way between the mast and the 
foreward hatch. Can't say that I would have decided to cut such a large hole in 
the cabin top my self, but it has worked out just fine. It is at a high point, 
it is in the head, and it looks good from the outside of the boat. 

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Chuck S
Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2013 8:43 AM
To: Bev Parslow; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List where to put the solar fan


FWIW, I faced the solar fan problem several years ago.  I studied the boats at 
several marinas, especially the newer model boats built after solar fans became 
a nice option.  I saw the forward hatch as the most common place for a first 
solar fan.  I added a second fan in the head, and two more at the high points 
in the cabin.  One is above the galley and another is opposite.  The boat is 
much fresher smelling now.  Some solar fans can be switched from inside, 
Exhaust, Off, or Intake.  Others need the fan blades to change from exhaust to 
intake.  I have all four set on exhaust and rely on vents and companionway for 
intake.  

The only time I turn them off is when I'm trying to heat the boat.

Last thought.  I find they keep the boat fresh smelling, but do little to cool 
the boat at my latitude.  Solar fans can't replace AC.  The sun is just too 
powerful and we get a lot of 90plus days each summer so the cabin is usually a 
little warmer than ambient temperature.  It's tough to cool with 90 degree air. 
 They do better after the sun sets and the air cools.
 

Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ



From: "Bev Parslow" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2013 3:24:50 PM
Subject: Stus-List where to put the vent


Just bought a 4 inch solar powered vent. What is the best place for it? The 
boat is a 29 mark 2. We could try it on the forward hatch, the non opening 
acrylic panel in the main cabin, or take out the vent in the head and make it 
bigger. Are there any other options?

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Primary winches for MkII 27'

[Steve Thomas]

 Your current winches are probably Barient 18s, at least that is what was 
original on my boat.
 I looked long and hard at the Anderson 28st winches and I agree that they are 
a good fit for the C&C27.
 A Barient 19st is pretty much an 18 that is self tailing, but almost 
impossible to find now.
 In the end I bought a couple of used Barient 21-30st winches but only because 
they were way cheaper than a new pair of Andersons.
 I have not found the larger diameter to be of any particular advantage, and 
there seems to be a greater tendency for over-rides,
but self tailing was the feature I was after and I like them for that.

 Steve Thomas
 1978 C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Paul
Baker
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2013 5:03 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Primary winches for MkII 27'


Hi Listers,
I'm seriously considering replacing the current (I assume factory
standard) Barient single-speed winches.  I'm not at the boat at the
moment, I think they are 16s.  Anyway, I am looking at the Anderson 28ST
(two speed, self tailers).  Is the 28 too big, too small, what do you
have on your 27?
Cheers,
Paul.

Orange Crush
1974 27MkII

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List C&C 30 mast step yet again

[Steve Thomas]

Maple is not very rot resistant, but oak is.
There is a reason why oak was the material of choice for ship building.

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Ronald B. 
Frerker
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:24 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List C&C 30 mast step yet again


Got the engine running, so I could shift the mast over to work on the step.  
(BTW trouble was in the battery cables; corrosion
inside the sheathing).
I have only two supports and the oak plank I used bowed in the middle; probably 
because I didn't seal the edges well enough and
water wicked in.  It did last 10-15yrs though.  So based on what a lister 
mentioned, I'm going to put in a third support in the
middle.  I can only buy 3/4 marine plywood by 4x8 sheet.  So I'm going with 
solid wood for the support.  The hardwoods dealer
suggested mahogany, but it seems to porous for a bilge.  A friend suggested ipe 
(epay or ironwood).  Extremely dense and used in
lock gates on the river.  He claimed that some don't even treat it.
I'm using maple (very dense) instead of the oak I used last time for the 
horizontal plank; oak apparently is known to bend readily
with moisture, especially steam.
I'm planning to coat all with a few coats of epoxy which I think Dennis 
suggested; the hardwoods dealer suggested marine poly.
So, given I'm going with wood instead of a wood/metal combination, are there 
any suggestions about which wood and the coating?
Ron
Wild Cheri
STL

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List C&C 30 mast step yet again

[Steve Thomas]

Re: C&C 30 mast step yet againTrue.

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Ed Dooley
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 9:09 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 30 mast step yet again


White oak is, red oak, not so much.
Ed

From: Steve Thomas 
Maple is not very rot resistant, but oak is.
There is a reason why oak was the material of choice for ship building.

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Ronald B. 
Frerker
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:24 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List C&C 30 mast step yet again

Got the engine running, so I could shift the mast over to work on the step.  
(BTW trouble was in the battery cables; corrosion
inside the sheathing).
I have only two supports and the oak plank I used bowed in the middle; probably 
because I didn't seal the edges well enough and
water wicked in.  It did last 10-15yrs though.  So based on what a lister 
mentioned, I'm going to put in a third support in the
middle.  I can only buy 3/4 marine plywood by 4x8 sheet.  So I'm going with 
solid wood for the support.  The hardwoods dealer
suggested mahogany, but it seems to porous for a bilge.  A friend suggested ipe 
(epay or ironwood).  Extremely dense and used in
lock gates on the river.  He claimed that some don't even treat it.
I'm using maple (very dense) instead of the oak I used last time for the 
horizontal plank; oak apparently is known to bend readily
with moisture, especially steam.
I'm planning to coat all with a few coats of epoxy which I think Dennis 
suggested; the hardwoods dealer suggested marine poly.
So, given I'm going with wood instead of a wood/metal combination, are there 
any suggestions about which wood and the coating?
Ron
Wild Cheri
STL
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Replacement batten

[Steve Thomas]

 If the next batten pocket up is the same length as the one for the batten you 
lost, then it is a good bet that both were
identical. An identical batten would in this case be close enough until you 
have a chance to check with your sail maker, as was
suggested earlier.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Indigo
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 8:06 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Replacement batten


Any help / advice appreciated!!

I lost the bottom lower batten last night (not full length) and am looking for 
a replacement today. Not knowing much about
battens, I don't know if they come in different levels of "flex" and if so what 
should I be looking for?



--
Jonathan
Indigo C&C 35III
SOUTHPORT CT
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Sail Numbers

[Steve Thomas]

You only need them if you are going to race, in which case it would be best to 
get a hold of whoever is sanctioning the races in your area.  There have been 
many different "standards" for sail numbering.  

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of 
sam.c.sal...@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 11:49 PM
To: CnC
Subject: Stus-List Sail Numbers


‎I know it's been discussed before, but I wasn't listening? 
Just ordered a new kevlar Genoa.  ‎What's the deal with sail numbers? How do 
you decide what number? 
Is hull serial number legit?


Sam Salter 
C&C 26 Liquorice 
Ghost Lake Alberta 
‎___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Smile or sump.

[Steve Thomas]

St. Clair Marine, which is on the Canadian side at La Salle on the Detroit 
river does decent work, but they are not cheap. Repairs
and storage is what they do, and they seem to do a fair bit of both. I had a 
look around when I was looking at an Islander 36 that
was for sale there in January of 2009. I really don't know if he is more 
expensive than anyone else, but an aquaintance of mine
with a C&C 29 had some collision damage repaired there 2 years ago. An idiot in 
another sailboat had T-boned him while he was at
anchor near the beach, with his kids swimming in the water around the boat. 
Charges were laid. Anyway there was damage to the toe
rail, hull, and deck at the point of collision and when he got the boat back 
you couldn't tell any thing had happened. The damage
visible from the outside was maybe a foot long tops, but penetrating. The bill 
was around 15 grand if I recall correctly, but it
was an insurance job, and sometimes that makes a difference. I would certainly 
shop around, both for competence and price.
   South Shore Yachts might be worth contacting since they were formed in part 
from the remanents of C&C. I don't think that they
tackle repairs of that nature, but it might be worth seeking advice there 
anyway given their particular knowledge of C&C yachts. 

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Derek
Leck
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 3:21 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Smile or sump.


This is my second season with this boat. I purchased from the widow of capt I 
raced with for 25 years.  I was aware of crack but
no idea how severe a problem this could be (DUH) and had to have boat due to 
sentimental reasons. We raced boat but not seriously
since 2007. Crack developed in 2010.
Any recommendation on a qualified shop to repair?  Western end of Lake Erie.


: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :

Derek Leck  : :  Account Manager
METZGERS  : :  www.metzgers.com
419.861.8611 x4824  : :  fax: 419.861.3299

Get Involved!
http://www.metzgers.com/social-media
On Aug 10, 2013, at 2:59 PM, "Brent Driedger"  wrote:

> You say you just purchased this boat? Has a survey pointed to any possible 
> hard grounding? I think you need to start some
exploratory surgery there to see if this crack is the result of fractured 
fibreglass around the sump. That type of cracking looks
structural to me and no amount of lipstick and mascara will fix that. I'm not 
sure of the layup of your hull but if its involving
a balsa core and possibly combined with winter freezing cycles with trapped 
core water, it could be a serious issue there. Sorry I
have no positives for you..
> My uneducated opinion.
>
> Brent Driedger
> s/v Wild Rover
> 27-V
> Lake Winnipeg after 50 hours of keel repair.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 2013-08-10, at 1:38 PM, Derek Leck  wrote:
>
>> Here is best picture I have of my crack from last year.
>>
>>
>>
>> : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :
>>
>> Derek Leck  : :  Account Manager
>> METZGERS  : :  www.metzgers.com
>> 419.861.8611 x4824  : :  fax: 419.861.3299
>>
>> Get Involved!
>> http://www.metzgers.com/social-media
>> 
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
<>___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar Vents

[Steve Thomas]

Unless it is the new style, just pull on it and wiggle it from side to side at 
the same time. Think flexible plastic hose barb
stuck into a pastic tube. Same as the Nicro vents which are not solar, like the 
ones on the top of the transom of most C&C yachts.
Not sure your 37 has them, but most of the older models do. If the PO had a 
leak and decided to glue it in with some sort of
calking then all bets are off, but that is how it is supposed to work.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Persuasion
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 5:41 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Solar Vents


Has any one removed Nicro solar vents.  It looks as though they may be applied 
from the outside held in place by caulking.  I
removed the outside SS cover and if I started the fan it would continue to run 
for a few seconds.  It was very dirty and I want to
remove it to clean it. It is applied over the cowl vent so I cannot access it 
from the inside.

Thanks

Mike
S/V Persuasion
C&C 37 Keel/CB
Long Sault
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Bilge pump siphon

[Steve Thomas]

Check valves can and do stick shut sometimes.
Happened on a boat I was on once.
The owner was all set to install the backup pump, but poking the check valve 
solved the problem.
No idea what made it stick that one time.
Some somewhat adhesive "piece of crap" most likely I suppose.
In any case I would want it to be easily accessible if installed.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Ken Heaton
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:42 AM
To: cnc-list
Subject: Re: Stus-List Bilge pump siphon


Our 37 XL has a check valve and a vented loop (belt and suspender approach) in 
the electric bilge pump discharge hose, like this:
http://www.forespar.com/products/boat-marine-plumbing-vented-loop-thru-hull.shtml
  This loop is in the lazarette, above the
thruhull in the stern.


Our manual pump does not have a vented loop but does have a one way valve in 
the strum box.  The boat came with a one way valve in
the strainer but when it started leaking we replaced it with a Whale #SB5865 
Top Entry Strainer, this type:
http://www.marineoutfitters.ca/index.cfm?category=10036|10159&product=17181806&code=766478586506


For the manual bilge pump to back siphon it would mean both the strainer valve 
and both the one way valves in the pump would have
to be leaking so perhaps it is time to service the manual pump or at least 
clean the hair, etc. out of the valves?


Ken H.



On 13 August 2013 00:03, Colin Kilgour  wrote:

  The only problem with a check valve is that it reduces the flow rate.

  If you plan to use a check valve - as many of us, including me, do -
  just adjust your pump size accordingly.

  Same goes for how big a column of water you're pushing (ie: hose diameter)

  Same goes for how high you're pushing that column. (ie: the higher the
  loop, the higher the column - And btw, you definitely DO want a loop)

  Same goes for the gauge of wire and length of wiring run to your pump.
  (Lower voltage = less flow)

  All of these impact flow rate. So your 2000GPH pump is actually
  pumping a lot less than that Again, not a huge problem - as long
  as you factor all these things into your de-watering strategy.

  Nigel Calder does a really good analysis of these factors in his
  mechanical and electrical book.

  Cheers
  Colin

  Btw - on Bojangles, the bilge pumps discharge well below waterline.
  I'm not super happy about that, but that's the way the boat was made
  and it'd be a major plumbing project to make it work a different way.
   Touch wood - this has always worked well for me.




  On 8/12/13, Josh Muckley  wrote:
  > I must be messing up cause I have a check valve.  Without it, all the water
  > that is pushed into the hose above the pump drains right back into the sump
  > once the pump turns off.  With an auto sensing pump it would pump all the
  > time.
  >
  > I did up size the discharge hose and check valve so that they would he
  > harder to clog.
  >
  > Josh
  >
  > --
  > When privacy matters.
  > http://www.secure-my-email.com
  > On Aug 12, 2013 9:15 PM, "Steven Winks"  wrote:
  >

  >> **

  >> Hi. I have a 34+ and had an unusual thing happen this morning while at
  >> anchor. I woke to the sound of my electric bilge pump cycling on and off.
  >> The bilge was full of water. I turned the pump on to drain the bilge and
  >> it
  >> filled up again once the switch was selected to off. I had the same
  >> result
  >> with the manual pump. When I removed the manual bilge pump hose from the
  >> bilge and then turned on the electric pump again, the bilge stayed dry,
  >> so
  >> the water must have syphoned in via the manual pump discharge. The
  >> discharge on this boat lies only a few inches above the waterline, but
  >> with
  >> any weight aft, it is below the water. Has anyone else experienced this?
  >> I
  >> understand check valves are not recommended. Thanks for any advice.
  >>
  >> ___
  >> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
  >> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  >> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
  >>
  >>
  >


  --
  Sent from my mobile device


  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List New halyards

[Steve Thomas]

In all of the discussions about using high tech line for halyards over the 
years, there is one solution to the problem of the
"hand" of the thinner lines that I don't recall being suggested. Why not use 
ordinary half inch or larger spliced polyester tails
similar to the way that wire and polyester are spliced? That sort of splice is 
beyond my knowledge or skill, as is the wire to
polyester splice for that matter, but there must be people who know how. It may 
not be possible for every combination, but there
must be some products that are compatible. This combination would also solve 
some of the wear problems associated with the high
tech lines, since the larger diameter polyester tails are quite durable and can 
be sized to be of adequate strength long after
they get soft and fuzzy.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List New halyards

[Steve Thomas]

That "core to core" splice is exactly what I had in mind.
Thanks Dennis.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Dennis C.
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 10:57 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List New halyards


Touche' has two piece spinnaker sheets.  I had Layline "stuff" 1/4 inch Dyneema 
into a length of StaSet.  The StaSet is easy on
the hads and works well on the winches while the Dyneema is light and strong 
for the active part of the sheet.  The joined portion
is located such that it is on the winch.

You can get two piece halyards also.

Apsltd offers same thing as "core to core" splicing for $38.  scroll to the 
bottom of this page:

<http://www.apsltd.com/c-1539-splicingservices-halyardssheetsguys.aspx>

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA






------
  From: Steve Thomas 
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 9:40 PM
  Subject: Re: Stus-List New halyards



  In all of the discussions about using high tech line for halyards over the 
years, there is one solution to the problem of the
"hand" of the thinner lines that I don't recall being suggested. Why not use 
ordinary half inch or larger spliced polyester tails
similar to the way that wire and polyester are spliced? That sort of splice is 
beyond my knowledge or skill, as is the wire to
polyester splice for that matter, but there must be people who know how. It may 
not be possible for every combination, but there
must be some products that are compatible. This combination would also solve 
some of the wear problems associated with the high
tech lines, since the larger diameter polyester tails are quite durable and can 
be sized to be of adequate strength long after
they get soft and fuzzy.

  Steve Thomas
  C&C27 MKIII
  Port Stanley, ON

  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

cnc-list@cnc-list.com

[Steve Thomas]

A few random thoughts:

1. A V berth can be great, so long as the boat is not moving. There is no need 
to crawl over each other, and it is out of the way
from the rest of the boat.

2. Any berth occupied by more than one person at a time while underway is not 
the best for sleeping when the weather picks up.

3. I know a Valiant 40 that has a double quarter berth with a removable board 
down the middle for use while underway. It is
definitely a chore to crawl in and out of, but it makes a comfortable berth in 
rough seas. Perhaps the same or similar idea could
be applied to other "wide area" berths, to make into single sea berths when 
appropriate.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Richard Walter
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 10:02 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List How to sleep on a boat? (Was: Moving from a C&C??)


Greetings,


As our quest for a more comfortable boat continues, we are finding that one 
issue continues to be a quandary: how do we sleep?
Currently we fill in INDIGO's u-dinette every night and disassemble it every 
day; it is effective but annoying. Plus we have to
climb over each other and the saloon table. We are looking at center cockpit 
boats, including the Landfall 43s. Many have a
centerline berth, which seems optimal. We don't sail at night and don't plan to 
(so we are not afraid of falling out underway).
The transverse and pullman style berths both have the "crawl-over" factor; do 
we want to keep climbing over each other to get
into/out of bed forever? Not really. Pullman seem a little more 
sleeper-friendly.


Anyone want to share their experiences with various styles of aft cabin berths? 
What do you like/dislike and why?


Other boat search factors: we need a functional galley with abundant counter 
space. We don't race, so PHRF matters not at all. We
want good/great sailing with ease of sail handling.


This will (hopefully!) be our forever boat, so we want to be planful.


Thank you all in advance for your consideration.


Richard
s/v INDIGO
1978 36-footer
Watch Hill
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Thoughts on this boat?

[Steve Thomas]

   A friend of mine has a CS30, and I sail on it quite a lot. They have an 
excellent interior layout, and the best use of interior
space that I have seen on a 30 foot sailboat. They were often characterised as 
"marina beaters" because of their good cruising
accommodations and relatively short overall length. The older design CS33 is 
very similar, and you gain little by paying a marina
for the extra 3 feet.
   The boat sails well enough. My only real complaint as compared to my C&C27 
MKIII is that you don't get at lot of warning when
the rudder is reaching its limit, and it has an annoying tendency to round up 
when overpowered in a gust. Rudder could have been
bigger in my opinion. My friend's boat has a tall rig with double spreaders and 
I think that some were built shorter. There were
shoal draft versions available as well. All that I have seen come with factory 
self tailers, lines led aft to clutches, and an
Isomat boom. If you are looking for a well built pocket cruiser, these boats 
are hard to beat. Price has been a bit high for me,
they were 40 - 50k for a long time around here, or I would probably own one 
now. Don't forget that the Great Lakes boats are
usually in better condition than the ones down south in salt water.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKII
Port Stanley, ON

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Dr. Mark 
Bodnar
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 9:22 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Thoughts on this boat?



This one just popped up on YachtWorld.
I've heard very positive comments about the build quality of CS boats.  The 2 
avail locally are asking $35000-38000.
The interior layout looks good - with a little extra galley space and the 
double rear berth.

Anyone want to check that one out for me???

Mark





  Click on image to enlarge

30'  CS 30
  a.. Year: 1988
  b.. Current Price: US$ 22,500
  c.. Located In Hingham, MA
  d.. Hull Material: Fiberglass
  e.. Engine/Fuel Type: Single diesel
  f.. YW# 3144-2638685
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1988/CS-30-2638685/Hingham/MA/United-States#.UhyjrBusiSo
--

-
  Dr. Mark Bodnar
B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C)
Bedford Chiropractic
www.bedfordchiro.ca
-

There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
  - George Santayana

<>___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List A question regarding a sail

[Steve Thomas]

Take a look at the ATN web site for their "Tacker" and sock. There are videos 
of both in action. You may not choose to use either
of them but you should at least be aware of these options. There are several 
companies that also make socks. An asymmetric is
still a large sail and you have to get it down some how. The Tacker will give 
you better control over the tack of the sail than
you would have with just a block tied to the anchor roller.

I use both, ATN Tacker and sock, and a symmetrical spinnaker that I fly as an 
asymmetric. The setup has a more restricted range of
sailing angle to the wind, but it works quite well in most conditions where you 
would want such a sail while cruising. The main
advantage of a true asymmetric over my setup is in sailing closer to the wind 
in light air.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Ron Kaye
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 2:36 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List A question regarding a sail


Thanks for all the great info on the 4000 Autohelm.  I'm thinking it might be a 
magnetic disturbance of the compass and I think I
might have stowed a head-mounted flashlight in the chart table.  Maybe... I 
hope that's it.   We shall see this weekend when we
get back for another trip.

As for the sail, the boat came with a tri-radial spinnaker.  The real deal.   I 
think the PPO may have been into racing but the PO
and the CO's are not. The PO said he'd never raised the thing in 12 years.

At this point, Lisa and I don't want to wrestle with a full on spinnaker if the 
wind pipes up and we have to get it under control
in a hurry since it will usually be the two of us or the two of us and if there 
are others they won't know anything about sailing.
So... a crusising spinnaker I believe is what we need.   I'd like to get a used 
one and will check Bacon in Annapolis.

If anyone would like to trade sails, I'd give up the tri-radial spinnaker for a 
asymmetrical of appropriate size.  Its solid red.
3 oz, and seems to be well made amd in very good condition from what I've seen 
of it but I admit we haven't pulled the whole thing
out of the bag.  Its a Doyle sail.  We are near Annapolis.

As far as connecting it, we have a typical roller furler on for the genoa and a 
custom anchor roller sprit with a nice large piece
of stainless that I could drill into to connect the tack with a few feet of 
line to allow it to rise up a bit to see under.  Is
that about right?

>From what I've heard, Bacon has the info to size the sail appropriately for 
>make and model of boat but I'd like to hear any
opinions from the list as well.

Thanks again.  Sorry to be a pests with all these questions.

--
Ron & Lisa
'86 35/3
To be Renamed
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List C&C 35-2 for sale in STL

[Steve Thomas]

I looked too.
The price is right.

I wonder how much would it cost to have it trucked to Lake Michigan or to the 
Gulf?
Seems like a long way from navigable waterways.

Steve Thomas


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Stevan Plavsa
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 2:03 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 35-2 for sale in STL


Or "allofcraigs.com"
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/boa/3986046880.html








On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Dennis C.  wrote:

  Rick,


  Try claz.org or yakaz.com. Better search engines for Craigslist


  Dennis C.

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Aug 29, 2013, at 11:25 AM, "Rick Brass"  wrote:


Can you tell me which CraigsList the boat is on. A friend of mine is 
interested, but cannot find the boat in any of the
listings in Missouri.



Rick Brass



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ronald 
B. Frerker
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 9:39 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List C&C 35-2 for sale in STL



A friend here in STL put his boat up for sale on Craig's list for 10k$ or 
best offer.

He's moving to a landlocked area so he's motivated to sell.  It has an A-4 
and has been on fresh water for the last 30yrs that
I know of.

Ron

Wild Cheri

C&C 30







___

This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com


  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com



___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List C&C 35-2 for sale in STL

[Steve Thomas]

OK, so there IS a river near there.

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Steve Thomas
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 2:11 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 35-2 for sale in STL


I looked too.
The price is right.

I wonder how much would it cost to have it trucked to Lake Michigan or to the 
Gulf?
Seems like a long way from navigable waterways.

Steve Thomas


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Stevan Plavsa
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 2:03 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 35-2 for sale in STL


Or "allofcraigs.com"
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/boa/3986046880.html








On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Dennis C.  wrote:

  Rick,


  Try claz.org or yakaz.com. Better search engines for Craigslist


  Dennis C.

  Sent from my iPhone

  On Aug 29, 2013, at 11:25 AM, "Rick Brass"  wrote:


Can you tell me which CraigsList the boat is on. A friend of mine is 
interested, but cannot find the boat in any of the
listings in Missouri.



Rick Brass



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ronald 
B. Frerker
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 9:39 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List C&C 35-2 for sale in STL



A friend here in STL put his boat up for sale on Craig's list for 10k$ or 
best offer.

He's moving to a landlocked area so he's motivated to sell.  It has an A-4 
and has been on fresh water for the last 30yrs that
I know of.

Ron

Wild Cheri

C&C 30







___

This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com


  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com



___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List C&C smile - wet keel bolts

[Steve Thomas]

   A few thoughts on keel bolts:

   Most boats do get a bit of water in the bilge.

   Most of the stories I've read about actual stainless failures due to crevice 
corrosion, and especially as it applies to wire
rigging in swaged terminals, have involved boats that sail in salt water. I 
don't know if the salt water is the only factor, or if
my perception is because these boat owners are more likely to publish their 
problems, but there does seem to be a tendency. Maybe
it is more the southern boats I don't know, but I do know that the rigging on a 
Great Lakes boat is usually in better condition
than the ones you see down south of the same vintage. I wouldn't worry too much 
about your keel bolts unless you start seeing
brown stains. Ask around. There are lots of sailing clubs and marinas where you 
live. My bet is that you will be hard pressed to
find even one person who has had actual experience with corrosion on stainless 
keel boats on a fresh water only boat that was not
hard grounded. I have not heard of such a failure, but it seems reasonable that 
it could happen Once a crack starts, all bets are
off.

   I have witnessed several failures of shroud tangs on fractional rigged boats 
on Lake Erie. I saw the fractured bits from one,
and it appeared to have had a small crack at one end, with a small amount of 
corrosion before the rest of it let go. That said,
the crack in these cases in all likelihood started as a stress crack from being 
over loaded and flexed. Where the tangs break is
not where water would tend to accumulate. I can't imagine that the keel bolts 
on our boats are going to flex as much as a rigging
terminal unless the boat fetches up on a good sized rock.

   With the boat blocked up for the winter one could remove and replace each 
keel nut in succession I suppose, but you still
wouldn't know for sure that there was not a crack in the part you can't get at 
that way.

   Personally, I am reluctant to move heavily loaded stainless on stainless 
threads any more than necessary for fear of galling. A
friend of mine has a shop build stainless steel steamer for setting the dye on 
nylon cloth. When built it had fine threaded
stainless nuts to clamp it shut, same idea as a window hatch. They jammed up so 
solid that they had to be cut off.

   Hardly seems worth dropping the keel without a darned good reason to be 
suspicious in the first place, but that would be the
only way to do a thorough check. Even then you would just have to assume that 
the part cast into the lead was ok.

My 2 cents,

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Stevan Plavsa
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 9:00 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C smile - wet keel bolts


Count me among those with water constantly in the bilge. The past two winters 
with the boat out of the water there has been no
evidence of a smile but I have been concerned with the bilge and it always 
having water in it. Keel stepped, when it rains, water
in the bilge. Aside from that any condensation in the boat, the stuffing box 
(which needs repacking), etc, and I have water in the
bilge, all the time.


Steve
Suhana, C&C 32
Toronto



On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 8:44 AM, Hoyt, Mike  wrote:

  John and others

  In the reply below you reference the problems from wet stainless in
  oxygen deprived environment.  I have heard this comment several times
  before also.

  I am not aware of a large nimber of sailboats that do not have some
  water in th bilge most if not all the time.  Since this is where the
  kell bolts are torgued with the nuts it seem that this would count as
  wet and oxygen deprived.  Am I missing something or are we all in
  imminent danger?

  Mike

  Nut Case


  -Original Message-
  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of John
  and Maryann Read
  Sent: Monday, September 02, 2013 5:56 PM
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C smile

  Hi Bill

  If your keelboats are leaking, then your smile has progressed to the
  point
  of more than stuffing in some bondo and the need for some redoing the
  keel /
  sump seal itself to prevent leaks.  Remember that the keel bolts are
  stainless which will degrade when wet in an oxygen deprived environment
  which is what happens when the keel / sump seal is compromised.  A good
  starting place would be get the opinion of your local fiberglass repair
  shop.  I believe this subject is also well covered in the archives of
  this
  list as well as the DIY section of the photoalbum.

  To be absolutely sure, the preferred process at haul out would be to 1)
  lower the keel, 2)  clean, fair and prep the mating surfaces, 3)
  reattach
  the keel with a preferred adhesive / sealant, 4)  properly torque the
  keel
  bolts, 5) grind and fair both sides of the joint by at least a foot, 6)
  app

Re: Stus-List How would you prepare a C&C to cross the Atlantic

[Steve Thomas]

 I wonder what the motion on a cat would be like. On a mono hull the roll is 
dampened by the wind on the sails. On a cat there is
that wide stance. Anyone here have comparative experience?

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Brent
Driedger
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 9:38 PM
To: ja...@jpiworldwide.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List How would you prepare a C&C to cross the Atlantic


One way to look at it, an open 40 would be anything but a comfortable ride. 
Flat bottom trough landings in one of those must knock
your teeth out.

Brent.

Sent from my iPhone

On 2013-09-03, at 5:42 PM, "J.P."  wrote:


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List How would you prepare a C&C to cross the Atlantic

[Steve Thomas]

Correction,  Elizabeth Harbour, Great Exuma.

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Steve Thomas
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 10:09 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List How would you prepare a C&C to cross the Atlantic


LOL!
Got it. That is an analogy I can relate to from personal experience.

I think that I want to get a boat more suited for longer term cruising and I 
have been looking for a few years now trying to
decide. I am torn between the Winnebago-on-the-water boats that don't draw much 
water and the ones that actually sail well. Unless
you have big $$$ to spend, the two characteristics seem more or less 
incompatible.

I saw a lot of cats in Port Elizabeth this year, and they sure seem to work 
good at anchor.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Russ & Melody
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 9:11 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List How would you prepare a C&C to cross the Atlantic



Simply stated, "It can be like driving a Jeep over a plowed field."

Cheers, Russ
 Sweet 35mk-1

At 05:08 AM 05/09/2013, you wrote:


   I wonder what the motion on a cat would be like. On a mono hull the roll is 
dampened by the wind on the sails. On a cat there
is
  that wide stance. Anyone here have comparative experience?

  Steve Thomas
  C&C27 MKIII

  -Original Message-
  From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Brent
  Driedger
  Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 9:38 PM
  To: ja...@jpiworldwide.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Subject: Re: Stus-List How would you prepare a C&C to cross the Atlantic


  One way to look at it, an open 40 would be anything but a comfortable ride. 
Flat bottom trough landings in one of those must
knock
  your teeth out.

  Brent.
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List How would you prepare a C&C to cross the Atlantic

[Steve Thomas]

LOL!
Got it. That is an analogy I can relate to from personal experience.

I think that I want to get a boat more suited for longer term cruising and I 
have been looking for a few years now trying to
decide. I am torn between the Winnebago-on-the-water boats that don't draw much 
water and the ones that actually sail well. Unless
you have big $$$ to spend, the two characteristics seem more or less 
incompatible.

I saw a lot of cats in Port Elizabeth this year, and they sure seem to work 
good at anchor.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Russ & Melody
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 9:11 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List How would you prepare a C&C to cross the Atlantic



Simply stated, "It can be like driving a Jeep over a plowed field."

Cheers, Russ
 Sweet 35mk-1

At 05:08 AM 05/09/2013, you wrote:


   I wonder what the motion on a cat would be like. On a mono hull the roll is 
dampened by the wind on the sails. On a cat there
is
  that wide stance. Anyone here have comparative experience?

  Steve Thomas
  C&C27 MKIII

  -Original Message-
  From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Brent
  Driedger
  Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 9:38 PM
  To: ja...@jpiworldwide.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Subject: Re: Stus-List How would you prepare a C&C to cross the Atlantic


  One way to look at it, an open 40 would be anything but a comfortable ride. 
Flat bottom trough landings in one of those must
knock
  your teeth out.

  Brent.
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Photo Album Upgrade

[Steve Thomas]

Thanks for all your effort Stu.

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Stu
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 1:27 PM
To: C&C Email List
Subject: Stus-List Photo Album Upgrade


Finally, the Photo Album is working on the new higher speed and more secure 
server – not without major headaches.

In addition to the move:
1.  I have added Coppermine Photo Gallery – register, login and create your own 
albums.  Upload your photos and let everyone see.
2.  They Classified Ads are back – we lost some data but the script is working.
3.  The Chandlery has been rebuilt from the ground up with a totally new look.  
Same products and same prices.

Check out the Forum under Announcements from USWatercraft and see the info 
brochure on the NEW C&C REDLINE 41.

After almost 1 1/2 years, Diversion has been sold.  The market has been poor 
and the water levels contributed to lower prices and minimal sales.  I sold for 
less than market value and less than I had expected.  I know Gladys and I will 
miss sailing but we have taken on a new pass time – land yachting in a 
Winnebago motor home.  Who knows, we might show up in your club’s parking lot 
sometime and try to mooch a sail.  Don’t worry, I will still maintain and 
operate the Photo Album and will still wear my C&C hat and jacket.

Fair winds to all
Stu___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List America's Cup.

[Steve Thomas]

The Canadian navy once had a hydrofoil ship which would do better than 60 
knots, as did the Norwiegans. The U.S. navy had armed
and operational hydrofoil patrol vessels rated at 48 knots, just under the 50 
knot limit you mentioned. There must exist a body(s)
of engineering data on how to deal with cavitation issues. It can't all be 
classified. Can it?
Did the designers of the current AC boats just decide not to deal with the 
cavitation issue, and deliberately choose to depend on
rules limits for safety?

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Bill Coleman
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 5:16 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.


I think it may be the best ever.

I never could understand my friends jumping off the couch during football games 
and yelling and jumping -

Now I understand a little better.



Clipped this interesting tidbit from Lirakis's Blog -

<>



When the races are over, assuming these boats are toast anyway,  they should 
see what they would take (and do) in 25Kts +

With water ambulances on hand, of course.



Bill Coleman

C&C 39



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ken Heaton
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 4:37 PM
To: cnc-list
Subject: Re: Stus-List America's Cup.



I actually think this is the best America's cup in years.  I'm following this 
one every day and I haven't done that fir years,
probably since the early 1980's.



There are others who seem to agree with me.  Have a look at this article in the 
Huffington Post:



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/christopher-caen/a-cup-of-caen-yelling-at-_b_3975975.html



Ken H.



On 24 September 2013 15:51, Edd Schillay  wrote:

Bev,



The Cup racing has gone downhill to be sure -- both in the teams and the boats, 
but it is fun to watch any boat go 40 knots.



I do believe, however, the America's Cup is not named after our country, but 
the boat "America".



All the best,



Edd





Edd M. Schillay

Starship Enterprise

C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

City Island, NY

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website



On Sep 24, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Bev Parslow  wrote:



  I am confused. We have a boat sponsored from a country that last time I used 
an atlas was in the Middle East. All participants
being interviewed seem to have an accent from the Southern Hemisphere. Rumour 
has it that in fact we have only one American on
board. If they win, it should be called the American's Cup. This really is 
quite a farce. Why not a boat, built, designed and made
in that country, filled from citizens from there with sponsorship from the 
state.

  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com




___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Solar panels

[Steve Thomas]

 I purchased a 30 watt Coleman panel for a hundred bucks from Canadian Tire but 
I have not used it yet. It appears to be of the
same quality of construction as any ordinary aluminum framed crystalline solar 
panel. They are a bit expensive in dollars per
watt, but there is always some premium in that respect for the smaller sizes. 
My thinking was also for trickle charging and easy
storage when not in use.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of
Knowles Rich
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 12:28 PM
To: cnc-list Cnc-List
Subject: Stus-List Solar panels


A couple of us are contemplating purchasing solar panels to act as trickle 
chargers over the winter. One of our local retailers is
selling Coleman brand panels of various capacities and physical sizes at 
reasonable prices. Has anyone any experience with the
Coleman product, other than the good old camp stove and lanterns?

Any other suggestions for good solar panels?

Rich Knowles
INDIGO LF38
Halifax, NS.






___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List AIS Transponder Info

[Steve Thomas]

And now for something completely different: a kit that will convert a spare VHF 
radio into an AIS receiver that will work with
your laptop and includes plotting software, all for under $100. Not exactly an 
off the shelf bullet proof solution, but it might
be interesting to experiment with if the thought of using a soldering iron to 
install it doesn't leave you faint. I have not tried
it, but for the price I am tempted. Most of the "black box" solutions for 
receive only are unjustifiably expensive for what they
actually contain, imho. So far in this discussion, no one has mentioned the 
possibility of using a radio with AIS already built in
by the manufacturer, which is another possible solution. Standard Horizon makes 
one, and there may be others.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AIS-receiver-plotting-navigation-package-/261288551125?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd602e2d5

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Frederick G 
Street
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2013 5:28 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List AIS Transponder Info


Alan -- I'd suggest the Digital Yacht AIT2000 Class B transceiver; list is 
$699.95.  Along with that, if you want to go NMEA2000
you'll need a Raymarine E55053 SeaTalk2 to NMEA2000 adapter cable, and all the 
other NMEA2000 backbone cabling (terminators, tees,
power tap, etc.); or you can just go NMEA0183 if you aren't already using your 
0183 ports on the C80.  If you need to interface
your VHF for DSC, it might be a good idea to save the 0183 ports for that and 
do NMEA2000; then you'll have at least part of the
backbone system in place for the future.


Or you could just feed the VHF from the NMEA0183 ports on the AIS transceiver; 
then you won't need to have the C80 on to get GPS
data to the VHF, just power to the AIS (which you'll want on most of the time 
anyway).


You'll also need a VHF whip for the AIS; or you can get a splitter and use your 
existing VHF antenna.  Digital Yacht makes a
splitter to go with the AIT2000; it's the SPL2000 and list is $369.95.  If 
that's the route you're going to take, I'd recommend
putting the VHF, AIS and splitter on the same breaker, so that one breaker will 
turn on everything you need to manage VHF/AIS.
Then the C80 (along with the power for the NMEA2000 bus) could live on its own 
breaker for when you want it.



I would have put the Raymarine AIS650 on the list, but you'd have to convert 
from SeaTalk2 to NMEA2000 to get to a backbone, then
convert to SeaTalkNG to get into the AIS650; and it's a couple hundred bucks 
more list than the Digital Yacht.


I can source gear for you at decent prices; let me know if you want to discuss 
further.


-- Fred




Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI


On Sep 27, 2013, at 3:31 PM, Alan Bergen  wrote:




  Fred:



  I have a C80 MFD, ST 60+ instrument displays, Autohelm depthsounder and ST50 
tridata at the nav station.  The C80 has NMEA 0183
and NMEA 2000 connections, as well as an AIS connection.



  Alan


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List AIS Transponder Info

[Steve Thomas]

Colin,
   I agree with everything you say in your post, but my complaint about 
cost is not about value to the sailor. It is hard to
put a value on avoiding a collision at sea. If the only way to manufacture an 
AIS receiver was with some sort of unobtanium that
resulted in an unavoidable cost of thousands of dollars per unit, they would 
still be worth it to those who could pay for them.
   My complaint is that an AIS receiver is a pretty simple device, based on 
pre-existing technology, and the cost of manufacture
does not in my opinion justify the high prices being charged by some vendors. 
In their simplest form, AIS receivers consist of a 1
or 2 channel VHF receiver coupled with a modem to decode the sentences. True 
the market is somewhat limited in volume but I still
think that boaters are getting gouged when they pay some of the prices being 
asked.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Colin
Kilgour
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 9:27 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List AIS Transponder Info


Steve,

Looks like a cool project - for those who have time and ability for
that kind of stuff.

As for 'cost justifying' AIS, it really depends on the sailing you do.
 If you're mostly sailing away from major shipping areas, an AIS
receiver can feel more like a gadget than a tool - and therefore hard
to justify.

If you're sailing offshore or in shipping areas though, it's pretty
much the most cost effective safety tool you can have on the boat,
imo. You can get a receiver for about the same price as a fancy PFD
and you'll get a heluva lot more utility out of your AIS than your
Spinlock life vest.  (Btw - not saying you shouldn't wear a life vest,
just that cheaper ones float just as well as expensive ones)

(Disclosure: fwiw, I've done about 10,000 offshore miles with AIS
reception on board and it's been really helpful on many occasions)

Cheers
Colin


On 9/28/13, Steve Thomas  wrote:
> And now for something completely different: a kit that will convert a spare
> VHF radio into an AIS receiver that will work with
> your laptop and includes plotting software, all for under $100. Not exactly
> an off the shelf bullet proof solution, but it might
> be interesting to experiment with if the thought of using a soldering iron
> to install it doesn't leave you faint. I have not tried
> it, but for the price I am tempted. Most of the "black box" solutions for
> receive only are unjustifiably expensive for what they
> actually contain, imho. So far in this discussion, no one has mentioned the
> possibility of using a radio with AIS already built in
> by the manufacturer, which is another possible solution. Standard Horizon
> makes one, and there may be others.
>
> http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AIS-receiver-plotting-navigation-package-/261288551125?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd602e2d5
>
> Steve Thomas
> C&C27 MKIII
>
>
>


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List New boat - NOT

[Steve Thomas]

 Mark,
   What are the "NADA" valuations you refer to?
 You won't find a CS30 for $15k on the Great Lakes unless it has some serious 
problem.
 If I found a good one for that price I would buy it tomorrow.
 Boats of all kinds are generally more expensive here than on the east coast, 
but that is for a good reason if the boat has been
here all its life.
 Fresh water, a 6 month sailing season, and annual haul out for winter all 
contribute to better preserved boats.
 Something to bear in mind as you compare prices online.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Lake Erie

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Dr.
Mark Bodnar
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 11:45 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List New boat - NOT



Mike,
Thanks for the heads up.  That boat is with Sunnybrook Yacht brokers.
They are asking ~$39000.  Very few interior pictures online (which is a
red flag after I looked at a boat earlier this summer where pictures
were carefully taken to hide rot and water intrusion)

There is another CS30 for sale in Chester - I've talked to the broker
and I'm going down to check out the boat this wkend (pictures online are
not as clear - so harder to gauge condition)
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1986/Cs-30-2254686/Chester-Basin/Canada#.Ukrs_4asiM4

They are asking $31000.  But I keep making the mistake of thinking that
the asking price has some relation to the actual selling price.
Figuring that a boat listed for $22500 in Boston should be easier to
negotiate down to $15-16K vs a boat listed at $31K --- but then I
remember that one C&C32 I was watching online, but didn't go to look at
because it was too expensive at $3 came back up for private sale for
$16500.  I need to not worry about "offending" a seller, be comfortable
offering what I think the boat should sell for - if they refuse then I
move on.

Looking at NADA values online the CS30 is avg $15000.  The broker says
the sellers are "motivated" - we'll see how much if the boat looks
good.  I figure bringing a boat back from the US adds $2-4000 to my
cost.  So if I can get a local boat for a couple grand more then I'm even.

Mark

-
   Dr. Mark Bodnar
B.Sc., D.C., FCCOPR(C)
Bedford Chiropractic
www.bedfordchiro.ca
-

There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval.
   - George Santayana

On 30/09/2013 9:40 AM, Hoyt, Mike wrote:
> Mark
>
> There is a CS30 called Kittiwake rumoured for sale at the Sunrise Shore
> Marina just outside Tatamagopuche, NS.  Not sure the price.  Is the
> model with the four ports rather than the big long windows.
>
> FYI
>
> Mike
>
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dr.
> Mark Bodnar
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 1:05 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List New boat - NOT
>
>
> So the new boat is a bust!
>
> I was thinking I had a chance to get a great deal, a boat in fair
> condition for a good price, just in need of some cosmetic cleaning etc.
>
> Unfortunately no.  Surveyor found the boat was full of mold, cushions
> wet and moldy, stove rusted beyond repair, bilge full of rain water,
> manual bilge pump not functional, anchors rusted to point of needing
> replacement,   Plus the usual minor issues - scrapes and scuffs in the
> gel coat etc.
> With the bilge full of water the surveyor was unable to properly check
> the keel bolts or the mast step.
> All told, just does not make sense.  And yes, I know, a few people on
> this list warned me of exactly these issues, but I couldn't help from
> trying to find that great deal where you catch a seller at just the
> right time.
> Thanks for the advice and offers of assistance.  Rich had offered to
> help sail the boat back
>
> Now I'm back looking at the CS 30 I posted.  More expensive, but boat
> looks in much better condition.  Bill, I appreciate the personal
> recommendation with the broker.  Discussed the boat with him, he says it
>
> has a few cosmetic issues but that the owner died last winter and the
> adult, non-sailing, children are selling the boat.  He feels they will
> likely be open to an offer given the boat will start costing them winter
>
> storage fees within a few weeks.
> http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1988/Cs-30-2638685/Hingham/MA/United-Sta
> tes#.Ukb-NYasiM4
>
> If it does go ahead I don't want to take that much time off work to sail
>
> the boat all the way home, but I have a local skipper who I was
> organizing to bring back the C&C29, and we should be able to organize
> getting the boat home in mid Oct if I go ahead with the CS.  I'm hoping
> if we time it right that I can drive down to Yarmouth and 

Re: Stus-List Fridge upgrade - 34+

[Steve Thomas]

Whatever you do, don't use one of those refrigerant replacement kits that they 
sell in the automotive stores. They use a mixture
of butane and propane to approximate the characteristics of the more-or-less 
chemically inert gases used originally.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Jim Watts
Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2013 11:25 AM
To: 1 CnC List
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fridge upgrade - 34+


I had a retired refrigerator guy come out to the boat, he checked and recharged 
the system. $50 cash was a pretty good deal.




On 5 October 2013 07:58, Nate Flesness  wrote:

  anyone recharged a Novakool? Our old Novakool was fine for our purposes, but 
has clearly lost the refrigerant.

  Looking for an option...


  Nate
  "Sarah Jean"
  1980 30-1



  On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 12:30 PM, David Blair  wrote:

Anyone familiar with the 1990 34+ fridge details? I am thinking about 
upgrading the insulation, for the usual reasons. Not
sure how much was installed originally and even less sure about how I can get 
into the cabinetry to determine what is there now.
Something internal looks a lot more feasible but not sure of source for the 
right product. Planning to install myself and prepared
to spend some time to get it right. The original NovaKool (sp?) works fine so 
far but draws a fair amount of juice. Any
suggestions or prior experience with this model?  Thanks.



___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com





  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com





--
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Fridge upgrade - 34+

[Steve Thomas]

Wally,
   There are several brands of hydrocarbon products available that are 
direct replacements for R134a, R22, and R12. Redtek is
a big one in this area, available at Canadian Tire and NAPA, and there is 
another brand sold through TSC. The product labelling
says something about how you should have the original refrigerant removed 
professionally first, and there are labels which you are
supposed to apply in the engine compartment to indicate that the refrigerant 
has been changed. The labelling on the cans is not
real clear about what they actually contain, but you can find out through the 
product literature available online. I am not
certain exactly how the law applies to retailers, but R134a is not sold here 
directly to the public through regular retail outlets
or in kits due to regulations requiring that refrigerant recovery equipment be 
used when servicing equipment containing
halogenated hydrocarbons. The replacement products available to us amateurs 
work ok but they consist of mixtures of butane and
propane. All of this is fine for your car or RV, but obviously these products 
would present a potential fire hazard in a sailboat.

I don't know what the regulations are like in Mexico or the United States. 
Environmental regulations are both federal and
provincial here, and in Ontario mechanics need an endorsement on their license 
to work on AC. I saw cans of R12 for sale in a
variety store in St. Martin, several years after it was illegal everywhere 
else, but I am guessing that sources of supply like
that must have dried up by now.

Here is a link to the Redtek web page.

 http://www.redtek.com/index.html

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Wally
Bryant
Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2013 9:53 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fridge upgrade - 34+


Can you clarify that?  I thought that if the can said R134a it would
contain R134a.

Wal

Steve Thomas wrote:
> Whatever you do, don't use one of those refrigerant replacement kits that 
> they sell in the automotive stores. They use a mixture
> of butane and propane to approximate the characteristics of the more-or-less 
> chemically inert gases used originally.


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Volvo Diesel - opinions?

[Steve Thomas]

Good engines, parts are very expensive.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Marek Fluder
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 3:49 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Volvo Diesel - opinions?


I am looking into a larger boat purchase and found a Beneteau 331 with Volvo 
engine.

I would be interested in hearing opinions about these engines especially in 
Toronto area - availability of decent service, parts,
etc.

Will appreciate all opinions including remarks about "cata-bene-huntalinas" :)


Marek

C&C 24 "Emilie"

Hamilton Harbour, ON

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List How to limit backwinding the main

[Steve Thomas]

I don't know why you think you are doing something wrong, unless it is just 
because it is not pretty. My experience, and the
advice I've been given, is that there is always some backwinding of the main in 
the sweet spot if you using a genoa and working to
weather. I am sure that the exact degree must depend on the design of the boat 
and the sails, but for IOR boats with Dacron sails
it is certainly true. My boat seems to work best with up to a quarter of the 
main backwinded when the waves pick up, but I make no
claim that my sails are optimal.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of David Knecht
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 9:12 AM
To: CnC CnC discussion list
Subject: Stus-List How to limit backwinding the main


The discussion of C&C 34 in heavy air reminded me of a problem I had on my 34 
and similar issue on my 34+.  To me that means I am
probably doing something wrong with sail trim.  I find that my mainsail is 
almost always backwinded by the genoa.  If I leave the
traveller on the midline and sheet in the main and jib as I think is correct, a 
significant percentage of the main is luffing.
The only solution I have found is to pull the traveller up 6" to a foot, which 
does not seem right.  I had thought that by moving
the genoa tracks aft, I would open the leech more and that twist would minimize 
backwinding, but that does not seem to help much.
Both boats had rather old main sails, so possibly they have just lost their 
shape.  Genoa's are pretty old as well, but a new
genoa on my 34 did not change the problem much.  So it seems more likely I am 
setting things up incorrectly.  Can the group
comment on their extent of backwind and what you do if you want to limit it so 
you can maximize power.  Thanks- Dave





David Knecht
Aries
1990 C&C 34+
New London, CT


<>___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Rudder Damage and possible blister

[Steve Thomas]

Lots of us have rudders that are less than perfectly water tight. Many people 
either drill a hole in the bottom so it can drain,
and patch it every spring, or install a permanent drain plug. The main worry is 
to not let the water freeze in there.

There is a C&C 38 at a marina here that was discovered upon haul out to have 
dropped one half of the rudder skin in the water. The
exact time or place that this occurred is unknown, and the boat has sat for 
over a year now while the owner contemplates his next
move. Water freezing over the winter is suspected to have played a role, but 
the particular nature of the damage is due to the
fact that the rudder construction included two half skins that were glued 
together. The rudder on my 27 seems to be constructed in
the same fashion, and water drips out of a crack in the seam every fall. The 
water eventually stops dripping, so I figure that it
is self draining, but I have often wondered if it wouldn't be better to "skin" 
the rudder seam with fibreglass matt and try to
fair it smooth afterward. Seeing that 38 sitting there with half a rudder has 
made me think more seriously about preventative
measures but I have not done anything about it so far.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of David
Donnelly
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 9:46 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Rudder Damage and possible blister


Upon haul out a week ago I noticed a prior repair that was made to the
rudder but has now given way. I don't know how I missed it on purchase
but there was brand new bottom paint which must have concealed it
enough. In any case it is now mine to deal with. It seemed to weep water
for a few days and had the copper (or what looks like it) from the VC17
coming out. Most likely this is rust though.I have a link to the photos.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/97287685@N03/10300503673/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/97287685@N03/10300359555/

Using Google I found a few hits with some similar repairs and horror
stories. I am ASSuming that it is fiberglass over foam. The foam is
probably soaked and I was considering drilling some small holes near the
bottom to see what drains out. I guess the real concern is not fixing
the area it is what damage may have occurred from water being in there
and corroding the post.

In addition I found 2 other small areas that look like they were
repaired on the hull but now the repair looks to have degraded. I don't
have enough experience to know what a blister looks like but there is a
picture of this too.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/97287685@N03/10300484023/

I have hammered all around the areas of both the rudder and the hull and
everything seems sound. I think the rudder is toast. What may be my
options for this. And of course the blister.

Regards,

David Donnelly
C&C 26 Mistress

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List 27' for sale

[Steve Thomas]

Worth the current bid just for the engine.
The only odd thing that I see is the attachment points for the split back stay, 
but that would be easy to fix if you didn't like
it.
There appears to be something going on with the roller furling: - sail is 
furled, but no line on the spool?
Getting to California to get things settled within the 5 day window might be a 
challenge.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of J.P.
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 2:29 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List 27' for sale


Hi All



Just saw this on Ebay



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1976-C-C-27-Sailboat-STK-228157-NO-RESERVE-/390677782753?pt=Sailboats&hash=item5af635e0e1&vxp=mtr



JP
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List 27' for sale

[Steve Thomas]

The 115 volt electrical boxes and other wiring fixtures are exactly that, 
standard residential wiring. That is the way they came
from the C&C factory in those days. I guess they figured that since it would 
only be used at the dock, that it wouldn't matter.
Mine is all original and still works fine, but then my boat has never 
experienced a salt environment either. 
 
Steve Thomas 
C&C27 MKIII
 
-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Hoyt, Mike
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 12:44 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List 27' for sale


Does the electrical on that boat look a little more Home Depot than West Marine 
to anyone else on this list?  There appear to be
home fixtures in some areas and I wonder how they would react to a marine 
environment.
 
I do like the hatch on the cockpit bulkhead.  
 
Mike

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Neil Andersen
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 12:38 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List 27' for sale



There is nothing on the roller furling spool because the sail is furled.  You 
use the sheets to un-furl and the spool to furl, but
you knew that and are too depressed about the season coming to an end to 
remember...

 

J

 

Neil

Foxfire, 1982 C&C 32 (on the hard for the past 4 seasons L)

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Steve Thomas
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 10:17 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List 27' for sale

 

Worth the current bid just for the engine. 

The only odd thing that I see is the attachment points for the split back stay, 
but that would be easy to fix if you didn't like
it. 

There appears to be something going on with the roller furling: - sail is 
furled, but no line on the spool? 

Getting to California to get things settled within the 5 day window might be a 
challenge. 

 

Steve Thomas

C&C27 MKIII

Port Stanley, ON

 

 

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
<mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> ]On Behalf Of J.P.
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 2:29 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Subject: Stus-List 27' for sale

Hi All

 

Just saw this on Ebay

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1976-C-C-27-Sailboat-STK-228157-NO-RESERVE-/390677782753?pt=Sailboats
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1976-C-C-27-Sailboat-STK-228157-NO-RESERVE-/390677782753?pt=Sailboats&hash=item5af635e0e1&vxp=mtr>
&hash=item5af635e0e1&vxp=mtr 

 

JP

<>___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Folding/feathering Props

[Steve Thomas]

Sam, 
 I found a used geared Gori for my 27 and it works fine in forward and 
reverse. I had hoped to find a 3 blade folder of some kind to minimise 
vibration but when I checked the manufacturers specifications there were none 
available in a small enough diameter. That was a few years ago so it might not 
be true now.  

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
 
 -Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of 
sam.c.sal...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 4:02 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding/feathering Props


Good experiences; thanks for sharing.
Looks like two or three endorsements for the Max Prop; about the same against 
the Martec; one for the Flexofold; ...and a Gori replacing a Martec!
couple of questions:
How big a deal is the maintenance on the Max Prop?
Is it just a matter of greasing the prop every couple of years or is there 
more? - I pull the boat out of the lake every October; so it wouldn't be too 
much of a concern.
I still have the old prop on the shaft. Am I correct in assuming that the taper 
is a standard SAE? I'm going to need to know for sure before I order. (Probably 
safer to remove the prop and measure for peace of mind!)
Any more information / experiences / insights welcome. 


sam
C&C 26. Liquorice 
Ghost Lake Alberta 




‎‎On 10/20/2013 7:21 PM, Tim Goodyear wrote: 
  Sam, I have a two blade Flex I Fold, which goes nicely forwards and backwards 
and replaced a 2 blade non-geared Martec that went sideways in reverse and 
sometimes went forward if the blades opened together  (even after rebuilding).  
The two do not compare.


  Tim
  Mojito
  C&C 35-3
  Branford, CT

  On Oct 20, 2013, at 7:10 PM, David Donnelly  wrote:


Sam I also have the 2 blade Martec and a 26. I have not found poor 
performance in reverse but I don't do it a bunch either. Can push just fine 
going forward.


David




Sent from Samsung Mobile



 Original message 
From: Harry Hallgring  
Date: 10-20-2013 5:00 PM (GMT-07:00) 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding/feathering Props 



Sam,
I have a two blade folding Martec prop that goes 7 kts forward and four kts 
directly sideways in reverse. Going with a Gori this winter. 

Harry 


Sent from my iPhone 6Beta

On Oct 19, 2013, at 20:21, Sam Salter  wrote:


  This winters project is a folding/feathering prop.
  I've just sent off inquiries to:
  Flexofold
  Max Prop
  Slipstream

  Anyone got any comments/observations/likes/dislikes.
  Any experience good or bad with any type of folding/feathering prop would 
be useful.
  Any other manufacturers recommended.

  Now is your chance to get in on a real sailing topic - folding/feathering 
props OR rum!

  sam :-)
  C&C 26  Liquorice
  Ghost Lake  Alberta


  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com


   

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List New Head and holding tank system.

[Steve Thomas]

I just Googled it. 

http://www.plastic-mart.com/

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Richard N. 
Bush
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 10:07 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Head and holding tank system.


Steve, what's the contact info for Plastic-Mart? Thanks


Richard
1985 33-II


Richard N. Bush Law Offices 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite 9
Louisville, Kentucky 40220 
502-584-7255



-Original Message-
From: Stevan Plavsa 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Tue, Oct 22, 2013 8:34 am
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Head and holding tank system.


My original tank was made by Kracor. I just went through this exercise last 
season. The kracor tank for my boat is still available from Kracor but they 
wanted $700 plus shipping .. and shipping to Canada would have been over $100. 
Ok. Next option? 


I had removed the old stainless holding tank (some PO had replaced the original 
kracor with SS) because it was leaking when I got the boat. Gross. First job I 
did on the new boat. Gross.


Anyway, plastic-mart, yup .. I found a 20 gallon holding tank that fit in the 
bow perfectly!
Total broke down like this:
Order Items
---
Qty: 1 -  20 Gallon RV Waste Holding Tank - (S-H2020-B (bow)) Price Each: 
$200.99
Build a Tank - I will submit a technical drawing with fitting locations
Qty: 1 -  Holding Tank Pump-out Kit - (DT-30) Price Each: $47.99
---
2 Items

Subtotal: $248.98
Tax: $24.30
Shipping: $54.74
Total: $328.02





The $700 price for the kracor was just the tank, no fittings etc. I'm very 
happy with the plastic-mart tank and the service was excellent.


I took measurements from several of the online tanks that I thought would fit 
and then mocked up the tanks with cardboard and then checked for fit on the 
boat. I'm glad I did this it worked out perfectly. Do consider mocking up a 
cardboard tank if you have ANY doubt about fit.


Good luck, it's a dirty job.


Steve
Suhana, C&C 32
Toronto







On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 6:59 AM, djhaug...@juno.com  wrote:

  I'm not really sure what the banana would do...  Lol

  I have thought about the porta potty and then thought the composting toilet 
would have been a better idea.  I'm still not completely convinced that it 
isn't.  It is an easy install and for the amount of time we need it, it may 
well be a good solution.  However, it grossed out the admiral.  So, I'm on to 
this solution of a good holding tank design. 


  T-Mobile. America’s First Nationwide 4G Network


  - Reply message -
  From: "bobmor99 ." 
  To: 
  Subject: Stus-List New Head and holding tank system.

  Date: Mon, Oct 21, 2013 9:51 pm




  I'm mainly a daysailor who has so far avoided the poo issue. If I were to 
forgo my very comfortable bed and spend a night aboard Ox, I would first try to 
address the poo problem at the source - with bananas. Beyond that, I'd go Porta 
Potti and deal with it. 
  Bob M
  Ox 33-1
  Jax, FL



  On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:27 AM, djhaug...@juno.com  
wrote:

Okay guys,

I'm planning a new waste system.  I'm going with the Raritan PHC head and a 
new holding tank.  I currently have a very old Jabsco head and a bladder 
holding tank.  I really don't like the bladder.  It has worked okay but, one 
day it will fail and it will be disgusting!  I just want rid of it...

I'm looking for ideas on the design.  i.e.  Where to install the tank and 
how to pipe it.  I've been reading and I was thinking to try and install about 
a 16-18 gallon tank, that conforms to the hull, behind the head.  However, 
after a closer look on Saturday, I'm not sure there is enough room there.  I 
was kind of hoping to install it there in order to pipe up a gravity drain for 
when I'm in an area where that is possible.  This would also keep the hose runs 
very short and I could easily vent and pipe the pump-out fitting in the side 
deck above.

Of course that would have the need of piping up hill to get into the tank 
and make it a bit harder to clear the waste from the hose with every flush.  
Then I heard it might be better to have the waste run downhill to the tank.  
That would create the need of pumping overboard if I were in an area that 
allowed it and the need of another pump.  

I'm not exactly sure how the pump-out system works when having it done at a 
pump-out station.  Is it a fitting that attaches to the deck fitting and sucks 
it up the hose or, do they run a smaller hose down into the tank and suck it 
directly out with their hose?

Anyway,  As always, any and all advice, insights and colorful comments are 
appreciated!

Danny
Lolita
1973 Viking 33
Westport Point, MA

___

Re: Stus-List Folding/feathering Props

[Steve Thomas]

Sam,
 The original prop was a Michigan Wheel fixed 2 blade, and there was no 
remarkable change in vibration either way when the Gori was installed. It might 
have been better, prop mass is more central to the shaft, but it would take 
some sort of measurement instrument to tell for certain. I have read, and it 
makes perfect sense, that all else being equal a 3 blade is less prone to 
vibration, so that is why I was looking. I don't think that I get appreciable 
vibration from the prop anyway, and whatever there may be is totally swamped 
out by the one cylinder diesel. (Yanmar YSB12) I did do a careful engine to 
prop shaft alignment once, which when wrong will cause vibration problems, and 
I should do it again sometime in mid to late season when the various hull 
bending stresses have settled down. It is a task best done on a cool day and 
when in a very patient frame of mind. 

I am sure that there must be someone who has done it, but I know of no one who 
actually has a 3 blade feathering or folding prop on a boat as small as ours. 
Makes it hard to weigh the advantage of such a costly upgrade. 

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of 
sam.c.sal...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 1:44 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding/feathering Props


Steve,
...and anyone else - how do you find the 2 blade and vibration? I note you had 
a concern; was the concern justified or does the 2 blade run OK? Anyone have 
any experience with 2 blade and 3 blade vibration differences?

If anyone is interested, I’ve had a quote back from Max Prop already:
Current prop is: 12” x 8” RH 3 Blade
Recommendations are:
12” x 10” 2 blade - $1500
12” x 9” 3 blade - $2400

sam :-)
C&C 26  Liquorice
Ghost Lake  Alberta

From: Steve Thomas
Sent: ‎October‎ ‎21‎, ‎2013 ‎6‎:‎18‎ ‎AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding/feathering Props


Sam, 
 I found a used geared Gori for my 27 and it works fine in forward and 
reverse. I had hoped to find a 3 blade folder of some kind to minimise 
vibration but when I checked the manufacturers specifications there were none 
available in a small enough diameter. That was a few years ago so it might not 
be true now.  

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

 -Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of 
sam.c.sal...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 4:02 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding/feathering Props


Good experiences; thanks for sharing.
Looks like two or three endorsements for the Max Prop; about the same against 
the Martec; one for the Flexofold; ...and a Gori replacing a Martec!
couple of questions:
How big a deal is the maintenance on the Max Prop?
Is it just a matter of greasing the prop every couple of years or is there 
more? - I pull the boat out of the lake every October; so it wouldn't be too 
much of a concern.
I still have the old prop on the shaft. Am I correct in assuming that the taper 
is a standard SAE? I'm going to need to know for sure before I order. (Probably 
safer to remove the prop and measure for peace of mind!)
Any more information / experiences / insights welcome.  


sam
C&C 26. Liquorice 
Ghost Lake Alberta 




‎‎On 10/20/2013 7:21 PM, Tim Goodyear wrote: 
  Sam, I have a two blade Flex I Fold, which goes nicely forwards and backwards 
and replaced a 2 blade non-geared Martec that went sideways in reverse and 
sometimes went forward if the blades opened together  (even after rebuilding).  
The two do not compare.


  Tim
  Mojito
  C&C 35-3
  Branford, CT

  On Oct 20, 2013, at 7:10 PM, David Donnelly  wrote:


Sam I also have the 2 blade Martec and a 26. I have not found poor 
performance in reverse but I don't do it a bunch either. Can push just fine 
going forward.


David




Sent from Samsung Mobile



 Original message 
From: Harry Hallgring  
Date: 10-20-2013 5:00 PM (GMT-07:00) 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Folding/feathering Props 



Sam,
I have a two blade folding Martec prop that goes 7 kts forward and four kts 
directly sideways in reverse. Going with a Gori this winter. 

Harry 


Sent from my iPhone 6Beta

On Oct 19, 2013, at 20:21, Sam Salter  wrote:


  This winters project is a folding/feathering prop.
  I've just sent off inquiries to:
  Flexofold
  Max Prop
  Slipstream

  Anyone got any comments/observations/likes/dislikes.
  Any experience good or bad with any type of folding/feathering prop would 
be useful.
  Any other manufacturers recommended.

  Now is your chance to get in on a real sailing topic - folding/feathering 
props OR rum!

  sam :-)
  C&C 26  Liquorice
  Ghost Lake  Alberta


  ___
 

Re: Stus-List Part numbers for 3GMF seawater pump

[Steve Thomas]

Yup, seen that detachment thing happen with a brand new impeller. Brand name 
part too, not some no-name that "fits" xx. Had to get
towed by a power boat...

Steve

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Rich
Knowles
Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 3:51 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Part numbers for 3GMF seawater pump


There is a possibility that the rubber impeller has detached from the metal 
drive insert and is spinning while the impeller either
doesn't move or only turns slowly. Check the Jabsco website for impellers.

Rich

> On Oct 22, 2013, at 16:29, "Indigo"  wrote:
>
> My impeller part number is Yanmar 124223-42092 and the gasket is Yanmar
> 124223-42110.  I have never had to replace the cover or cam, so I don't have
> those part numbers.
>
> Jonathan
> Indigo 35 III (with 3GMF)
>
> Not sure where you are located but Mike in the parts department at Rex
> Marine in Norwalk CT could not be more helpful.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill
> Connon
> Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 2:48 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List Part numbers for 3GMF seawater pump
>
> Group,
>
> On haulout this year I noticed water drops from the seawater pump. I
> changed the bearings and seal and afterwards the pump would no longer
> self prime. I changed the impeller and was able to pump water using a
> 600 RPM half inch drill but the boat motor would not self prime and pump
> anti-freeze through the system.
> I want to buy a new cover, gasket and cam but can't come up with the
> proper part numbers. A call to the nearest Yanmar dealer did not help
> but I assume that it is a Johnson pump ( from what I found on the web )
> and it was using a Johnson 827 impeller.
> The motor is a 3GMF from 1985and the impeller is 2" OD x 7/8" wide and
> has a 1/2" bore with a keyway.
> All help with getting the proper part numbers would be appreciated.
>
> Bill
> Caprice 1
> 1978 C&C 36
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List New Head and holding tank system.

[Steve Thomas]

 Excellent idea!


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Bill
Bina
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:40 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List New Head and holding tank system.


I'm not sure if it was on this list where I saw it. But one tip I plan 
to try the next time I need to change a hose is to pre-expand the end 
with the tool they use for expanding automotive muffler pipes to make 
them slip over adjoining pipes. They come in different diameters. You 
slip it into the end of the pipe or hose and tightening a nut causes it 
to expand inside the tubing. I think between that and careful 
application of a heat gun, it might be just the thing. It sounds good, 
anyway...

Bill Bina

On 10/24/2013 10:24 AM, Stevan Plavsa wrote:
> I changed my hoses when it was cold out. Smell is less .. impacting .. 
> when it's cold. But it's harder to get the hoses off. They'll be hard 
> to remove in any case. If I was doing it over again I'de use one of 
> those multi-tools to put a slit in the hose end and replace the 
> fitting if it got damaged. Would save a lot of frustration.
>
> Have those big heavy duty contractor grade garbage bags on hand. 
> They'll contain anything
>
> Steve
> Suhana, C&C 32
> Toronto


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Head odours

[Steve Thomas]

Everybody I know (male) pisses over the side, weather and audience conditions 
permitting. 

As for falling overboard, on my boat and most of similar size and construction 
you can kneel in the cockpit on the leeward side and lean against the stern 
rail. No danger of falling out, and with even a small amount of heel there is 
no need to piss on the side of the boat. I seldom bother with cockpit cushions, 
especially when under way, so I bought a rubber kneeling pad from Princess Auto 
to make it a bit easier on the knees. Should have tied a line to it. Have to 
get another one now. 

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Rich Knowles
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 9:57 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Head odors


Probably:) Drowning stats are against you too. 

Rich

On Oct 25, 2013, at 10:21, "Pete Shelquist"  wrote:


  “Average person uses toilet 5 times a day”… is my boat the only one with guys 
peeing over the side?



  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
djhaug...@juno.com
  Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 7:19 AM
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Head odors



  Okay,



  I spoke to Peggie Hall last night and she asked; "Do you have anything 
against black hoses?"  I said, "Not really."  She said "oh good! use the 
trident 101 hoses.  I don't know of a single case where they have ever had a 
permeation issue."



  I guess I'm going to have black hoses...I guess I could paint them if the 
admiral has an issue with them...



  She also suggested a 24 gallon tank at least.  She said, on average, a manual 
toilet uses .6 gal/flush and the average person uses the toilet at leas 5 times 
per day. So, at a minimum your putting 3 gal/day/person in the the tank.  For 2 
people you get 6 gal/day so that tank will not even last 4 days because you 
don't want to be filling it to capacity.



  So, we (she) decided the v-birth would be the best location for the new tank. 
 I'll be heading down to the boat with the Ronco catalog in hand to figure out 
what the biggest tank I can fit under the v-birth.



  All in all, it will be a very simple system.  Manual toilet (she said the 
Raritan PHC would have been here recommendation) to a Y valve diverting the 
waste either directly overboard or into the tank.  A 1" vent, as far forward as 
I can get it.  A pump out and potentially, a seperate fitting on the tank for a 
manual overboard tank drain with a manual pump.



  The project moves on.



  Danny

  Lolita

  1973 Viking 33

  Westport Point, MA





  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Head odours

[Steve Thomas]

True, but if you kneel as I described, then you are in no more danger than you 
are when in the cockpit for any other reason.  

Steve

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Rich Knowles
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 10:47 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Head odours


You only make the stats once. 

Rich

On Oct 25, 2013, at 11:38, Steve Thomas  wrote:


  Everybody I know (male) pisses over the side, weather and audience conditions 
permitting. 

  As for falling overboard, on my boat and most of similar size and 
construction you can kneel in the cockpit on the leeward side and lean against 
the stern rail. No danger of falling out, and with even a small amount of heel 
there is no need to piss on the side of the boat. I seldom bother with cockpit 
cushions, especially when under way, so I bought a rubber kneeling pad from 
Princess Auto to make it a bit easier on the knees. Should have tied a line to 
it. Have to get another one now. 

  Steve Thomas
  C&C27 MKIII

  -Original Message-
  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Rich Knowles
  Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 9:57 AM
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Head odors


  Probably:) Drowning stats are against you too. 

  Rich

  On Oct 25, 2013, at 10:21, "Pete Shelquist"  
wrote:


“Average person uses toilet 5 times a day”… is my boat the only one with 
guys peeing over the side?


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
djhaug...@juno.com
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 7:19 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Head odors


Okay,


I spoke to Peggie Hall last night and she asked; "Do you have anything 
against black hoses?"  I said, "Not really."  She said "oh good! use the 
trident 101 hoses.  I don't know of a single case where they have ever had a 
permeation issue."


I guess I'm going to have black hoses...I guess I could paint them if the 
admiral has an issue with them...


She also suggested a 24 gallon tank at least.  She said, on average, a 
manual toilet uses .6 gal/flush and the average person uses the toilet at leas 
5 times per day. So, at a minimum your putting 3 gal/day/person in the the 
tank.  For 2 people you get 6 gal/day so that tank will not even last 4 days 
because you don't want to be filling it to capacity.


So, we (she) decided the v-birth would be the best location for the new 
tank.  I'll be heading down to the boat with the Ronco catalog in hand to 
figure out what the biggest tank I can fit under the v-birth.


All in all, it will be a very simple system.  Manual toilet (she said the 
Raritan PHC would have been here recommendation) to a Y valve diverting the 
waste either directly overboard or into the tank.  A 1" vent, as far forward as 
I can get it.  A pump out and potentially, a seperate fitting on the tank for a 
manual overboard tank drain with a manual pump.


The project moves on.


Danny

Lolita

1973 Viking 33

Westport Point, MA





___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Head odours - Now pissing safely

[Steve Thomas]

If you kneel as I described, it is not more dangerous than simply being in the 
cockpit.
No need to undo your tether either. 
Might not work on your boat but it does on many if not most. 
If you would rather use the head that is your choice, but it is not the only 
safe choice. 

I am very safety conscious and wear an inflatable harness as a rule rather than 
the exception. No one ever plans to fall overboard, and most drownings occur in 
calm weather. I am the first and often the only one to clip on the tether. Mine 
is often the only boat in the fleet where people are wearing life jackets. It 
is like doing up the seat belt in you car as far as I am concerned. Just do it. 
One area I need to improve on is in the rigging of jack lines. Don't do it 
often enough. I nearly drowned when I was a kid and it was an experience that I 
have no interest in repeating. 

On the other hand I used to work with a guy that got hit by lightning while at 
home in his basement. 
There is no such a thing as perfectly safe, but we can adjust the 
probabilities. 
No one gets out alive. 

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Bill Coleman
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 11:22 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Head odours


You don’t need a parachute to skydive.

You only need a parachute to skydive twice.

 

Bill Coleman

C&C 39 

 

You only make the stats once. 

Rich


On Oct 25, 2013, at 11:38, Steve Thomas  wrote:

  Everybody I know (male) pisses over the side, weather and audience conditions 
permitting. 

   

  As for falling overboard, on my boat and most of similar size and 
construction you can kneel in the cockpit on the leeward side and lean against 
the stern rail. No danger of falling out, and with even a small amount of heel 
there is no need to piss on the side of the boat. I seldom bother with cockpit 
cushions, especially when under way, so I bought a rubber kneeling pad from 
Princess Auto to make it a bit easier on the knees. Should have tied a line to 
it. Have to get another one now. 

   

  Steve Thomas

  C&C27 MKIII

   

  -Original Message-
  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Rich Knowles
  Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 9:57 AM
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Head odors

  Probably:) Drowning stats are against you too. 

  Rich


  On Oct 25, 2013, at 10:21, "Pete Shelquist"  
wrote:

“Average person uses toilet 5 times a day”… is my boat the only one with 
guys peeing over the side?

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of 
djhaug...@juno.com
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 7:19 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Head odors

Okay,

I spoke to Peggie Hall last night and she asked; "Do you have anything 
against black hoses?"  I said, "Not really."  She said "oh good! use the 
trident 101 hoses.  I don't know of a single case where they have ever had a 
permeation issue."

I guess I'm going to have black hoses...I guess I could paint them if the 
admiral has an issue with them...

She also suggested a 24 gallon tank at least.  She said, on average, a 
manual toilet uses .6 gal/flush and the average person uses the toilet at leas 
5 times per day. So, at a minimum your putting 3 gal/day/person in the the 
tank.  For 2 people you get 6 gal/day so that tank will not even last 4 days 
because you don't want to be filling it to capacity.

So, we (she) decided the v-birth would be the best location for the new 
tank.  I'll be heading down to the boat with the Ronco catalog in hand to 
figure out what the biggest tank I can fit under the v-birth.

All in all, it will be a very simple system.  Manual toilet (she said the 
Raritan PHC would have been here recommendation) to a Y valve diverting the 
waste either directly overboard or into the tank.  A 1" vent, as far forward as 
I can get it.  A pump out and potentially, a seperate fitting on the tank for a 
manual overboard tank drain with a manual pump.

The project moves on.

Danny

Lolita

1973 Viking 33

Westport Point, MA






___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com
<>___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List safety tethers

[Steve Thomas]

Random thoughts:

1. Industrial fall harnesses have a tether attachment at the back because a 
"fall arrest" from that direction is less likely to
cause a back injury. Your spine can bend forward further than backward, at 
least that is what they taught us in the working at
heights safety courses at Ford. The assumption is that you hang there until 
someone comes and rescues you. I think that for marine
applications the tether attachment in front makes more sense.

2. A friend of mine actually fell overboard while in the process of lowering a 
hanked-on foresail at night. He was tethered and
managed to get back on board only because the boat was plunging into the waves 
so much that he was carried back up by the waves.
Conditions were such that when he returned to the cockpit, the other crew were 
unaware that he been over the side. (They had come
out past a point of land and "discovered" considerably higher wind and seas 
than expected. It was off either Rondeau or Point
Pelee, I forget which, on Lake Erie.)

3. Standard harnesses don't have crotch straps. They should. A harness and or 
lifejacket is not much good if you slip out of it.
It is not difficult to add one using standard webbing and hardware. I was 
taught this "trick" by a guy who used to train crews for
the British Telecom around the world races.

4. The GLSS (Great Lakes Singlehanded Society) that Bill Coleman provided a 
link to, has done considerable work on the subject of
tethers and jack lines. It is worth taking a look at their rules, and the video 
of their outboard system in action. The question
of how you might switch from one attachment point to another is not addressed 
in the video. The basic idea is that you use 2 sets
of jack lines. One set is rigged central to the boat with the idea of keeping 
you on board. The other set is rigged outside of the
lifelines. The outside jack line extends back to where there is a re-boarding 
ladder mounted on the side, and crew is equipped
with dual tethers so that it is possible to clip on to the desired line before 
unclipping from the inboard attachment point. It is
the only system I have ever seen where you actually have a fighting chance of 
getting back on board unassisted.

5. One of the GLSS suggested pieces of equipment, a folding knife that can be 
opened one handed, is illegal in Canada, and
visiting sailors should be aware of that fact. Possession is a criminal offence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gQbDzXAOdY&context=C3eea170ADOEgsToPDskJJp-f-bBF0SutwvJyyAoGV

http://www.solosailor.org/pdfs/Std_GLSSRequiredEquip.pdf

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Dennis C.
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 11:22 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List safety tethers


Tether attachment to the back is standard in industrial fall protection.

<https://www.millerfallprotection.com/fall-protection-products/body-wear/full-body-harnesses>

You can grab one on eBay for about $30.  See eBay listing 280932207169.

If I went with one of these, I'd want to figure out a foolproof way to pull the 
quick release on my tether.  Would be difficult
reaching over my shoulder and trying to pull it.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA






On Friday, October 25, 2013 9:56 PM, Ken Heaton  wrote:

  Thanks for the heads up on that one Graham, that modification makes sense.  I 
wonder if any of the local manufacturers (say
Mustang) will licence and incorporate that in their own products?


  Ken H.




  On 25 October 2013 22:53, Graham Collins  wrote:

I'm hoping this will PFD / harness eventually become available / approved 
in Canada, I may buy a couple in any case since I
think it is a superior solution if attached to jacklines.
http://teamomarine.com/

Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C&C 35-III #11On 2013-10-25 10:00 PM, Bill Bina wrote:

  Coupla minor points that could save a life: Andrew is 100% correct that 
staying on the boat is far superior. If you go in
the water you are more likely to die, than not, regardless of anything else. 
Not only do you need a quick release, but you need to
make sure you can release it with either hand, while suspended with your FULL 
weight on the quick release. (feet not touching
anything solid)

  If you do find yourself being dragged behind the boat, get on your back. 
Your shoulders will plane you to get your face out
of the water more, and you will also have far less drag preventing you from 
pulling your way back to the boat. Trust me when I
tell you that even Hulk Hogan would probably not be able to pull himself back 
to a boat going 6 knots unless he was on his back.
If you are not Hulk Hogan, your limit is less than 4 knots.

  One friend of mine tells students to regard water as if it was molten 
lava. If you fall in, you are likely dead. That's what
the stats say.

  Bill

Re: Stus-List safety tethers - now knives

[Steve Thomas]

 knife, because it can be 
opened the rest of the way with gravity or a "flick
of the wrist", is in the prohibited weapon category as described in sub 
paragraph 23 even if it is a torsion bar type knife.

I haven't figured out a good way to keep my handheld VHF clipped on yet. I have 
a Standard Horizon and have nearly lost it twice
now because the "button thingy" that holds the belt clip keeps coming unscrewed.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Brent Driedger
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2013 11:43 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List safety tethers


Hey Steve, I'm wondering about your information regarding one handed folding 
knives in Canada.
I have several in fact it's all I buy. Is the limitation more to do with spring 
loaded style jack knives? By one handed operation
I refer to the type that have a pin on the blade that you put your thumb 
against and rotate to open with no preloaded assistance.
That in combo with a flick of the wrist one hand opens the blade quickly. I 
keep one clipped to my harness.
My other safety for single handing is a floating VHF clipped to me as well. I 
know my chances of getting back on the boat are poor
but the idea of talking to the coastguard as I watch my boat sail away from me 
is comforting.  I'm just not sure how far from land
I can go at water level for a clear broadcast.


Brent D
27-5
Lake Winnipeg

Sent from my iPhone




  Random thoughts:

  1. Industrial fall harnesses have a tether attachment at the back because a 
"fall arrest" from that direction is less likely to
cause a back injury. Your spine can bend forward further than backward, at 
least that is what they taught us in the working at
heights safety courses at Ford. The assumption is that you hang there until 
someone comes and rescues you. I think that for marine
applications the tether attachment in front makes more sense.

  2. A friend of mine actually fell overboard while in the process of lowering 
a hanked-on foresail at night. He was tethered and
managed to get back on board only because the boat was plunging into the waves 
so much that he was carried back up by the waves.
Conditions were such that when he returned to the cockpit, the other crew were 
unaware that he been over the side. (They had come
out past a point of land and "discovered" considerably higher wind and seas 
than expected. It was off either Rondeau or Point
Pelee, I forget which, on Lake Erie.)

  3. Standard harnesses don't have crotch straps. They should. A harness and or 
lifejacket is not much good if you slip out of it.
It is not difficult to add one using standard webbing and hardware. I was 
taught this "trick" by a guy who used to train crews for
the British Telecom around the world races.

  4. The GLSS (Great Lakes Singlehanded Society) that Bill Coleman provided a 
link to, has done considerable work on the subject
of tethers and jack lines. It is worth taking a look at their rules, and the 
video of their outboard system in action. The
question of how you might switch from one attachment point to another is not 
addressed in the video. The basic idea is that you
use 2 sets of jack lines. One set is rigged central to the boat with the idea 
of keeping you on board. The other set is rigged
outside of the lifelines. The outside jack line extends back to where there is 
a re-boarding ladder mounted on the side, and crew
is equipped with dual tethers so that it is possible to clip on to the desired 
line before unclipping from the inboard attachment
point. It is the only system I have ever seen where you actually have a 
fighting chance of getting back on board unassisted.

  5. One of the GLSS suggested pieces of equipment, a folding knife that can be 
opened one handed, is illegal in Canada, and
visiting sailors should be aware of that fact. Possession is a criminal offence.

  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gQbDzXAOdY&context=C3eea170ADOEgsToPDskJJp-f-bBF0SutwvJyyAoGV

  http://www.solosailor.org/pdfs/Std_GLSSRequiredEquip.pdf

  Steve Thomas
  C&C27 MKIII

  -Original Message-
  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Dennis C.
  Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 11:22 PM
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Subject: Re: Stus-List safety tethers


  Tether attachment to the back is standard in industrial fall protection.

  
<https://www.millerfallprotection.com/fall-protection-products/body-wear/full-body-harnesses>

  You can grab one on eBay for about $30.  See eBay listing 280932207169.

  If I went with one of these, I'd want to figure out a foolproof way to pull 
the quick release on my tether.  Would be difficult
reaching over my shoulder and trying to pull it.

  Dennis C.
  Touche' 35-1 #83
  Mandeville, LA






  On Friday, October 25, 2013 9:56 PM, Ken Heaton  wrote:

T

Re: Stus-List 1972 35 for sale near Baltimore

[Steve Thomas]

 I got as far as checking the cost of return airfare...

Steve Thomas

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Della
Barba, Joe
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 3:43 PM
To: w...@wbryant.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List 1972 35 for sale near Baltimore


That boat is sold now.

Joe Della Barba


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Wally Bryant
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 3:41 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List 1972 35 for sale near Baltimore

Last time I added it up, mine is worth about 1.5M.  


On 10/29/2013 2:35 PM, Della Barba, Joe wrote:
> My boat must be worth $29.95 at most then:(


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com 
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
<>___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Navy 44s being auctioned

[Steve Thomas]

I don't think the auction boats are a good deal, unless you absolutely wanted 
one of those particular hulls. The killer for me is
the missing winches. By the time you add them back in, the initial purchase 
price will be around 50K, and there are a lot of
project boats in that price range that would require less work to equip and 
sail.

Steve

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Aaron Rouhi
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 9:49 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Navy 44s being auctioned


The new USCG boats (Leadership 44) are Morris Yachts built. Practical sailor 
had a nice review while back...


The Naval Academy boats up for auction are MK1 with ultra utilitarian interior 
which I do like...

Cheers,
Aaron R.
1979 30-MK1
Annapolis, MD

On Nov 2, 2013, at 8:31 AM, "Harry Hallgring"  wrote:


  I was moored amongst the new USCG boats this past August in Edgartown. Sturdy 
looking boats. The cadets love them.

  Harry


  Sent from my iPhone 6Beta

  On Nov 2, 2013, at 8:08, Chuck S  wrote:


Has the Navy bought new boats?
The Coast Guard is buying new Dave Pedrick design to replace their old Bill 
Luders 44' yawls?

I wonder what design the Navy chose?


Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ



From: "Aaron Rouhi" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Friday, November 1, 2013 10:58:06 PM
Subject: Stus-List Navy 44s being auctioned


3 Navy 44s are being auctioned on GSA site:

http://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/gsaauctions/


They are gutted but still they'll make a pretty nice project boat...


Cheers,
Aaron R.
Admiral Maggie,
1979 C&C 30 MK1 #540
Annapolis, MD

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Spinnaker Pole Sizing

[Steve Thomas]

If you race, you will be assesed a penalty. I don't see a problem otherwise, 
but reducing the pole length might be pretty easy
depending on how stuck the ends are.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Jean-Francois 
J Rivard
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 9:40 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Spinnaker Pole Sizing


Hello All,

I got lucky at my marina's flee market this summer and found a nice spinnaker  
for a 100 bucks  that's almost perfect for my boat.
For some reason a prior owner disposed of the spinnaker pole  / car and I am in 
the process of sourcing those.  Not wanting to pay
1,600 - 1,800 for a custom new pole I found a used one that might work. I need 
some help to determine my course of actions:

My boat is a 1990 34+ (Also known as a 34/36)  My "J" measurement is 14.83 feet 
 and the pole I found measures 15.7 feet.


  a.. Can I just use it as is?  I don't know the implications but it seems to 
me that the pole sticking out 11 inches past the
forestay  would not be a problem.
  b.. If not I suppose I could cut it and refit the end?
  c.. If I cut it, hoe much would I take out?

I might end-up buying new end fittings anyway just sot start  with something 
fresh..  At 350.00 asking price the pole looks like a
good deal.

Thanks in advance,

-Francois Rivard
1990 34+   "Take Five"
Lake Lanier,  Georgia
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List New boat - CS30

[Steve Thomas]

Lots of people refuse to allow toilet paper, or anything else that wasn't eaten 
first, to be flushed through the head. You
obviously don't agree with that practice but I'm surprised that you think it 
unusual. Not a piece of equipment I would want to
repair at sea.


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Jim Watts
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 11:00 PM
To: 1 CnC List
Subject: Re: Stus-List New boat - CS30


The hull and deck of a CS36 is nice. The ports suck and make the whole boat 
look "off", at least to me. I expect to see a machine
gun sticking out of one.
I much prefer the look of a C&C 36, although they don't sail as well. The 
closest competitor was a C&C 37, according to one
broker.  Apparently they are great sea boats, but the toilets aren't very 
functional.


The last remark was because a friend was on a CS36 coming back from Hawaii and 
they didn't allow any toilet paper going down the
toilet...huh? Keeping a can of used toilet paper for three weeks is not my idea 
of a good time. I'm assuming they kept it as a
souvenir, and didn't just heave it overboard. For all I know, it's still up on 
the trophy wall in their basement.




On 3 November 2013 19:44, Robert Abbott  wrote:

  No specific experience with the CS brand but my understanding is that they 
are as well constructed as C&C's.  A club member
wanted a larger port in the head of his new CS 36...I saw the piece of 'deck' 
he cut out.now that was impressive.

I'll bite..is a C&C 30 a prettier looking boat than the CS 30, yep.  Is 
a C&C 36 a prettier looking boat than a CS 36,
nope!

  Bob Abbott
  AZURA
  C&C 32 - 84
  Halifax, N.S.






  On 2013/11/03 5:44 PM, dwight veinot wrote:

Haven't seen many posts about what C&C owners here on this list can say 
about the CS brand...there has been considerable
discussion on this list about appearance (on the ,ooring for example) and how 
much that means to C&C owners...how does the CS 30
rate in that regard with those willing to say and does anyone have any comments 
about overall quality of construction of CS boats
that may be beneficial news for buyers




On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 5:12 PM, Rich Knowles  wrote:

  Mark:  if you have a reasonably good feeling about the boat, make the 
giant plunge. The price is reasonable and, no matter
what boat you buy, you will be putting some money in to make it your boat.

  Decision time, Sir! And you're the one who has to make it!

  Rich


  > On Nov 3, 2013, at 16:14, M Bod  wrote:
  >
  >
  >
  > Just back from a few hours digging though the boat.
  > Sails look good. Better than expected.
  >
  > Bottom looks good.
  > Rudder was stiff when I moved it by hand (after I loosened the brake) - 
wonder if there is a grease nipple?
  >
  > Deck and gear all look solid. Windows need to be replaced, couple of 
spider cracks near 3 stantion bases.
  >
  > Mechanic started engine - bit argumentative, plus has a leak in raw 
water part of cooling system (which explains why
engine is rusty)  but overall looks good and ran well. Est $200 to fix leak and 
tidy up wiring, another $150 for new alternator
(which was a bit rough from the water leak)
  >
  > Couple suprises
  > Talking w one of the owners he commented that they had hit a rock years 
back and the keel was repaired. Looking in the
bilge the mast step looked good - but near the back (last set of double keel 
bolts) there were a few fine cracks in the stringers.
  > I'm guessing the impact pushed back and up on the keel. I forgot to 
take a picture - but at the top of the stringer the
crack was maybe 1-2mm, the crack line was just across the top of the stringer 
(right where the cross stinger met the longitudinal
brace), didn't extend down the stringer far - 1-4 cm.  I'd say about 3 on 
either side.
  > Boat is resting on it keel - so crack should show its worst.
  > Any guesses on repair cost??
  > Owners have been adamant that there is no more negotiation.
  >
  > Also - boat had NO holding tank. Under the pump out hole there was no 
hose, and no tank under the v-berth. These owners
had the boat since new - guessing they had the option of not adding the holding 
tank  ??
  >
  > As for the shower - boat has no hot water system at all. So adding a 
shower would not be a simple job. Not sure its to
important, but a nice extra with a few teenagers
  >
  > Last the 'metal cradle in need of some repair' is actually a wood 
cradle that has been sitting for 2 yrs in long grass.
I'd guess 1/4 of the wood needs replacing - so likely better off just starting 
from scratch.
  >
  > Didn't get a full survey. Contacted several surveyors and only one 
bothered to respond and he was not avail.  Not sure a
survey tells me anything I didn't just discover (other than a quote for 
repairs).
  >
  > I don't think I'm ru

Re: Stus-List Current C&C History; now a Dose of reality !!!!

[Steve Thomas]

 I agree with a lot of what you say, but you should check your arithmetic. Your 
boat is younger than you think.

Steve.

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Ron
Casciato
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 7:23 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Current C&C History; now a Dose of reality 


To the group...

Just some thoughts to bring the conversation down to today's reality
check.. I would advance that most of the listers in this group who
own C&C boats actually own boats older than 1990...Maybe a few in
the early 90's. virtually none of us own anything that competes with
new models of racer cruiser boats today.

I own one of the Bruckman C&C's built in 1977.  It's a 38MKIIC and was built
as a custom boat for someone in Chicago to race in the Mac races.. I
have completely refinished her to better than new condition and we race her
weekly in the local PHRF series.

That makes her over 46 years old and I wouldn't give her up for any amount.
And yes, I would love to see those lines continued in to the future, it's a
great boat, but the reality is that you can't make a current business on
those older boat's designs I admire Will's courage and intent on
keeping the "marque" but really, not one of us is a potential customer of
the new boats of any brand in today's market at today's new boat
prices...Incidentally, most of us are too old to think about making that
kind of investment in a new 30' or 40' boat.  I'm sure that Will gets it, he
needs to create a boat that sells into today's active sailor market, and
that ain't many of us by comparison.  Today's cruising/ racing families are
choosing between newer designs and trying to compete with the J 105
which I can't even touch given my generous handicap.

We all purchased our boats at a different time and place in our
lives.those choices are still great ones, but given the "disposable
income" of many newer sailboat types, I applaud Will and his group for
giving it a try..

Sort of like the new "Cris Craft" power boats...they are still being
made, but not in the old style and function.  The market is smaller than it
was for either type of boat and a new venture needs to pick a segment that
contains enough potential customers so it can survive 

What each of us needs to do is sail for a day on one of the late model
Jeauneau's, Beneteau's or for the purist's out there a new
Sabre...priced one of them lately.

You would trade your old C&C sailing characteristics and accommodations in a
minute if it weren't for the  price of that experience...  Folks without the
old time C&C experience don't have the history to fall back on for
rationalization.

So my hat's off to Will and the New C&C group..I like the new
designs, but I'm one of the old C&C'ers..and I understand that I'm
not in your new target market.  

My very best Wishes..

Ron Casciato
IMPROMPTU
C&C 38MKIIC, #125, '77 



-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Will
Harris
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 3:12 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Current C&C History

Hi Group,

I thought maybe I'd chime in on this C&C history thread.

Dunes and I both go way, way back with C&C.  We grew up in and around 
Youngstown which is right across the river from Niagara-on-the-Lake.  
Our clubs are almost like one club, divided by a border.  We grew up 
racing and sailing with and against the Hinterhollers, Brimsmeads and 
all the C&C guys.

My personal history actually pre-dates C&C by a fair bit.  When we 
bought our Shark, George didn't have an office per se, you went and had 
dinner with the Hinterhoellers.  Our families used to meet up for a few 
days most summers cruising our Sharks in the Thousand Islands.  Richard 
and I were about the same age and Barbara and my sister were about the 
same age.  Gabrielle was practically a grown-up.. she was probably 12 
when I was 9...

Long story short, I knew George and his family and I'm pretty sure he 
would approve of the 30!  Two main reasons: First, it is really easy to 
forget just how radical the Shark was in the day.  Now, we're pretty 
used to 24 foot boats planing in 1962 that just did not 
happen...except for Sharks!

Second- George is also pretty famous for telling a client who wanted 
standing headroom in a 30 footer,  "It is better to cut off your 
legs".   He was a no BS kinda guy.

I follow this list and it's pretty fun.  Sometimes I think that ya'll 
forget that the C&Cs that are now serving as great cruising boats we NOT 
cruising boats when they were new.  C&C's bread and butter was 
performance boats.  They would go and win the SORC, They would build the 
Canadian Admiral's Cup team and the string of Canada's Cup boats they 
did were freaking amazing.  People would buy the production boats and go

Re: Stus-List Anchoring floorboards - was Re: floorboards

[Steve Thomas]

Robertson head screws are much less likely to deform so that you can't remove 
them, so long as you don't use an undersize screwdriver. You are less likely to 
have to resort to some sort of alternate extraction device with Robertson head 
screws. They are way better than Phillips or slot heads in transferring torque 
from the screwdriver to the screw. In my opinion they are better in all 
applications except for assembly line work, where speed of assembly is the 
overriding concern, and where the engineers don't care if it is later difficult 
to remove them. The only thing I would do is make sure that they are stainless 
or bronze, and check them once in a while if you are concerned that they will 
fill up with dirt. That is not something that is likely to happen quickly. 

Virtually every screw used to fasten anything that is connected to the hull of 
my boat has required re-tightening at some time. There must be a lot of flexing 
going on that is not obvious when actually sailing the boat. 

Steve Thomas
1978 C&C MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of M Bod
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 7:11 AM
To: C&C list
Subject: Stus-List Anchoring floorboards - was Re: floorboards


This discussion leads me to a question. 

Looking at the CS 30 I had a really tough time getting under the floorboards - 
the Robertson head screws were full of dirt an it was very difficult to get 
many of the screws out. 
I had to use a little dental tool I'd brought with me to gouge the dirt out of 
each hole to make space for the screwdriver head. 
I'd hate to be trying to do that if I was in an emergency that necessitated 
access!

Any better suggestions? Would you just go with a slot screw? Any better ideas - 
still seems to me you might be frantically trying to find a problem and the 
sheer number of screws could be overwhelming. 

Mark


Graham Collins  wrote:


Hi Bill
Rough cut the new material with an allowance of say 3/8" all around, then using 
the original screw holes in the old floorboards screw the old boards to the new 
and use a trimming bit in a router (straight bit with bearing of the same 
diameter) to trim.  No clamps required, and you use the same screw holes to 
install the new boards.

+1 on the suggestion to ensure you line up the holly carefully from panel to 
panel, I did not do this and it bugs me... but not enough for a do-over!

Graham Collins
Secret Plans
C&C 35-III #11On 2013-11-07 10:26 PM, wwadjo...@aol.com wrote:



  I am planning to remake floorboards this winter.  I have old ones for 
pattern.  Would be interested in any tips, on or off list, that anyone has for 
patterning, cutting, finishing.  Plan to epoxy all sides, then varnish.  
Thinking of m making full size masonite patterns , attach with double sided 
tape to new floor stock, then use straight cutting bit in router to cut.  
Thoughts welcome.   
  Bill Walker
  36
  Pentwater, Mi
  Sent from my HTC


  - Reply message -
  From: sam.c.sal...@gmail.com
  To: 
  Subject: Stus-List Current C&C History; now a Dose of reality 
  Date: Thu, Nov 7, 2013 9:03 PM


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

   

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Anchoring floorboards - was Re: floorboards

[Steve Thomas]

"common driver"

Robertson head screws are common here.
Don't know why they never caught on in the States.

Steve

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Indigo
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 10:52 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Anchoring floorboards - was Re: floorboards


If the objective is to be able to get the floorboards up quickly, I would be 
very reluctant to use any fastening that can't  be
undone with a common driver ( kept in my case in the top drawer of the chart 
table) or with no tools at all


My 2cents fwiw


Jonathan
Indigo


--
Jonathan
Indigo C&C 35III

SOUTHPORT CT

On Nov 8, 2013, at 8:05, Steve Thomas  wrote:


  Robertson head screws are much less likely to deform so that you can't remove 
them, so long as you don't use an undersize
screwdriver. You are less likely to have to resort to some sort of alternate 
extraction device with Robertson head screws. They
are way better than Phillips or slot heads in transferring torque from the 
screwdriver to the screw. In my opinion they are better
in all applications except for assembly line work, where speed of assembly is 
the overriding concern, and where the engineers
don't care if it is later difficult to remove them. The only thing I would do 
is make sure that they are stainless or bronze, and
check them once in a while if you are concerned that they will fill up with 
dirt. That is not something that is likely to happen
quickly.

  Virtually every screw used to fasten anything that is connected to the hull 
of my boat has required re-tightening at some time.
There must be a lot of flexing going on that is not obvious when actually 
sailing the boat.

  Steve Thomas
  1978 C&C MKIII

  -Original Message-
  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of M Bod
  Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 7:11 AM
  To: C&C list
  Subject: Stus-List Anchoring floorboards - was Re: floorboards


  This discussion leads me to a question.

  Looking at the CS 30 I had a really tough time getting under the floorboards 
- the Robertson head screws were full of dirt an it
was very difficult to get many of the screws out.
  I had to use a little dental tool I'd brought with me to gouge the dirt out 
of each hole to make space for the screwdriver head.
  I'd hate to be trying to do that if I was in an emergency that necessitated 
access!

  Any better suggestions? Would you just go with a slot screw? Any better ideas 
- still seems to me you might be frantically
trying to find a problem and the sheer number of screws could be overwhelming.

  Mark


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Current C&C History; now a Dose of reality !!!!

[Steve Thomas]

A guy in who lives here in  Port Stanley designed and built a 36? foot steel 
trimaran in one winter, all on his own. (No not the
interior, but he got it to the point where it could be sailed.)

The really interesting thing about his design is that the arms to the outer 
hulls are hydraulically actuated to swing back and
pull up tight against the centre hull, thus giving the boat a "legal" beam at 
his yacht club.

Steve Thomas
1978 C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of dwight
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 7:07 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Current C&C History; now a Dose of reality 


 A 42 footer would be OK with me but they may not get too popular because of 
beam.at the dock






From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck S
Sent: November 8, 2013 7:08 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Current C&C History; now a Dose of reality 



Hi Dwight,
FWIW, I read that catamaran hulls need to have a 10:1 length to width ratio to 
work well as cats.  The hulls need to pretty long
to get any livable space inside.  They also need to be kept light or they never 
perform well.  The optimum length to accomadate
beds and a head and carry stores and have deep enough hulls to raise the 
crossbeam clear of waves seems to start around 42 ft.

Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ




From: "dwight" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Friday, November 8, 2013 3:55:30 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Current C&C History; now a Dose of reality 

I like mostly all boats that are equipped to allow me to play with the sail and 
rig adjustments and notice the resulting effects
on performance.if you want big speed and low draft the twin hull boats are 
really something, remember the AC races, I was
impressed and those guys usually are years ahead of what the sport will 
eventually move too.all the mono hull racing designs
changes try to make performance advances or increased speed potentials in 
tenths of knots while the twin hull designs in the 30-40
foot range give lots of below decks space, low draft and double speed 
potential.I have never sailed one but I would like to give
one a try.






From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Indigo
Sent: November 8, 2013 2:22 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Current C&C History; now a Dose of reality 



Must be horribly tough for any boat builder to decide what niche to attack



J boats seems to have got the one-design market sewn up - especially in the 
North East - especially at the 35ft and below (j109,
j105, j80 etc)



Catalina, jeanneau, Beneteau, hunter have the mass-market - you gets what you 
pay for, mostly coastal cruisers, with cavernous
saloons, queen beds for use while at a slip etc



Others, and there are plenty, struggle to attract the discerning sailor who 
maybe wants to go offshore, go out in less than
perfect weather etc.

--

Jonathan

Indigo C&C 35III

SOUTHPORT CT


On Nov 8, 2013, at 12:47, "Della Barba, Joe"  wrote:

  IMHO C&C would be very well served to bring this boat or a newer version back 
to life. From what I can tell sport boats that
*you can keep on a trailer* are where the action is. Slip fees eat up too much 
of the budget for people now.



  Joe Della Barba

  Coquina



  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jerome 
Tauber
  Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 11:17 AM
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Current C&C History; now a Dose of reality 



  It was the SR21 which was the SR Max designed by Glen Henderson.   It is 
still a nice boat using the concept of light weight
rather than too much sail.   Jerry C&C 27-5



  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Hampton to Bermuda aboard a 35-2

[Steve Thomas]

Nice pics!
Thanks for sharing.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Aaron Rouhi
Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 1:31 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Hampton to Bermuda aboard a 35-2


Just completed a passage from Hampton, Virginia to St. Georges Harbor in 
Bermuda abroad my good friends 35-MK2. The good old boat
did great in heavy conditions we encountered while crossing GolfStream. Here is 
a few photos showing Bermuda in sight:


http://imgur.com/a/m5jAq


Cheers,
Aaron R.
Admiral Maggie,
1979 C&C 30 MK1 #540
Annapolis, MD
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Pedestal width (compass diameter) on a 37+?

[Steve Thomas]

We had a really windy night here Sunday, rattled and shook the house all night. 
Still 15,000 people up north without hydro this
morning, and the maple leaves on my front lawn didn't budge one bit. They 
aren't wet. They just naturally seem to hunker down. I
thought that just maybe some of them would have departed, but there is no 
visible difference. One more raking should do it.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of dwight veinot
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 1:47 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Pedestal width (compass diameter) on a 37+?


Good sense of humor, Jim:  that's what I intended and what I expected


Lightened up my day a bit...busy cleaning up leaves, gutters, last cut for the 
lawn etc.,


Got it done now and feeling the pain



Dwight Veinot

Alianna
C&C 35 MKII

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS




On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Jim Watts  wrote:

  Yes, but we're not going to tell you who they are.




  On 19 November 2013 09:04, dwight veinot  wrote:

Good for Ken but are there some contributors who we should doubt



Dwight Veinot

Alianna
C&C 35 MKII

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS




On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Edd Schillay  wrote:

  Josh,


  I would never doubt the information from Ken Heaton. He’s like the Oracle 
in the Matrix movies.


  I’m in no rush. My wife wants to buy me the new piece for the holidays 
and I would love to switch from the push-down
forward, pull-up reverse to the push forward for forward and pull back for 
reverse. It has been several occasions where I  put the
Enterprise into the wrong gear because I forget and it’s not immediately 
intuitive. Certainly can make for exciting docking
maneuvers.


  Confirmation would be great. I keep looking at the ruler on my desk 
trying to picture my compass size.





  All the best,


  Edd




  Edd M. Schillay
  Starship Enterprise
  C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
  City Island, NY
  Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website


  On Nov 18, 2013, at 8:02 PM, Josh Muckley  wrote:


Edd,

I don't know how soon you need it but I can swing by my boat tomorrow 
and confirm Ken's info.  It's only 10 minutes down
the road.

Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk
1989 C&C 37+

On Nov 18, 2013 5:37 PM, "Edd Schillay"  wrote:

  Listers,


  I’m looking to replace the section on my Edson pedestal that houses 
the engine controls. Before I make a special trip to
City Island to measure, does anyone know if I should get the 6-7/8” one or the 
8” one?


  Help me Obi Wan Ken Heaton, you are my only hope . . . .




  All the best,


  Edd




  Edd M. Schillay
  Starship Enterprise
  C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
  City Island, NY
  Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log Website





  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com




  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com





___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com






  --
  Jim Watts
  Paradigm Shift
  C&C 35 Mk III
  Victoria, BC


  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com



___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Winterizing

[Steve Thomas]

A friend of mine managed to seize the engine in an almost unused diesel 
generator that way. It would not budge either way
immediately afterwards, in spite of big wrenches and much grunting. Don't know 
yet what broke. He filled it with oil and has left
it sitting.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Josh Muckley
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 4:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Winterizing



 " As advised recently one needs to be conscientious not to roll it too long or 
sea water can back up in the exhaust and damage
the engine. "
Josh Muckley
S/V Sea Hawk

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List wire halyards

[Steve Thomas]

 Never knew that they had used aluminum bolts. Certainly something to watch out 
for. I can't imagine wanting aluminum bolts on
anything that doesn't fly. Bound to cause trouble eventually.

The shroud tang through bolt at the spreaders on my boat is stainless.

Steve Thomas
1978 C&C27 MKIII


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of David
Jacobs
Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2013 3:07 PM
To: w...@wbryant.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List wire halyards


Interestingly, I was talking to people at NE Rigging Systems in Concord, MA
just yesterday about replacing the rod on my 1983 C&C35 MK III and they told
me about this issue. Apparently C&C changed from aluminum through bolts
(through the mast holding the rod connection fittings) in the late 80's to
SST through bolts because the internal wire halyards would cut through the
aluminum bolts over time. They just did a C&C 40 and found that the aluminum
bolts were almost completely cut through.



___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Binoculars

[Steve Thomas]

I have a pair of Bushnell 7x50's with the compass and range finder, waterproof, 
nitrogen filled, etc. I don't know the model
number off hand, they are on boat, but I paid 180 something dollars plus tax 
for them or 9 or 10 years ago. I have managed to use
them on the Great Lakes, as well as on several trips on the Atlantic and 
Pacific Oceans, and even numerous trips through airport
luggage handling without damage so far. I have found the optics to be clear and 
sharp and without noticeable aberration and I have
no complaints at all. They may be a bit heavier than more expensive models, and 
I am certain that there are other makes that are
just as good, but I don't think you will find anything with significantly 
better performance at that price point.

Advice is worth what you pay for it, but that has been my experience.

The only thing that I would like to try, which would be reason to upgrade, is 
if I can find a pair with good optics and not
astronomical in price, where the diopter and or focus adjustment does not 
rotate the eyepieces. I would like to experiment with
putting corrective lenses right in the eyepiece, and since my distance vision 
is good except for some astigmatism, rotation is
out. (Vision correction at the objective lens does not work, it would have to 
be at the eyepiece.)

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Joel Aronson
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 11:22 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Binoculars


All,


I'm looking to buy a good pair of binoculars without breaking the bank (less 
than $300.)  Nikon, Bushnell and Steiner all have 7 x
50 glasses that are within my budget.


If you have used the Nikon OceanPro, Bushnell or "cheap" Steiners can you let 
me know if you are happy with them?


Thanks




Joel
35/3
Annapolis
301 541 8551
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Now Stability - was List halyards again( 10 aloft = 1on the rail )

[Steve Thomas]

That is exactly what he was saying as I read it.

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of dwight
Sent: Thursday, December 05, 2013 7:44 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Now Stability - was List halyards again( 10 aloft = 1on 
the rail )


Forgive me for this Chuck, but some things seem obvious to me.however, 
sometimes I get confused.but if buoyancy is ever less than
displacement would that not be a submarine or sunken vessel and if COB is below 
COG would she not be inclined to topple over???






From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Chuck S
Sent: December 5, 2013 8:38 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Now Stability - was List halyards again( 10 aloft = 1 on 
the rail )



Neil,
Sorry, I'm heavily biased by life experience, logic, hundreds of books on 
boats.  Read Skene's Elements of Sailboat Design.
Center of buoyancy on a keelboat is always above center of gravity.  On my boat 
the CB is a foot above the WL while the CG is 4
feet below.  The Drawings prove it.  Buoyancy must exceed displacement also.  
Sailboats face different requirements than cruise
ships so should never be compared.

Another source:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/centre-gravity-buoyancy-d_1286.html

Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ




From: "Neil Gallagher" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2013 4:49:53 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Now Stability - was List halyards again( 10 aloft = 1 on 
the rail )

Marek:

Picture a large cruise ship:  its draft might be 10 m, so its vertical center 
of buoyancy is a little more than 1/2 way from the
keel to the waterline, say 6m above the keel.  The center of gravity is not 
only above the center of buoyancy, it's well above the
waterline, sometimes 20 m above the keel, yet unless it happens to buzz too 
close to an Italian island, it will stay upright.  Or
picture a small sailing dinghy without anyone on it, the CB again is below the 
waterline, while the CG is well above, but they
don't capsize until the sheets are pulled in.

A yacht's form stability is the same as a ship's; for sure, adding a keel to a 
yacht improves the stability by lowering CG, but it
does not necessarily put the CG below the CB, in fact it usually doesn't.  
(There is a point called the metacenter, which is an
imaginary point on centerline through which the buoyancy force always acts, 
that is the point which must stay above the CG for
positive stability...but now we're getting deep into naval architecture.)

Check out the illustration below:

http://www.troldand.dk/en/?The_Yacht:Stability#.UqDzkvIo5Ik

Neil Gallagher
Weatherly, 35-1
Glen Cove, NY




No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3658/6393 - Release Date: 12/05/13
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?

[Steve Thomas]

Excellent comments Rich. 

I would add that one needs to confirm that the power take off available for 
driving a proposed larger alternator can handle the increased load. This is 
especially true for engines where the power take off is through a gear train, 
and not directly off one end of the crankshaft. In these circumstances it may 
not be just a question of how large a fraction of the engine's output do you 
want to direct to the alternator. The maximum load presented by the proposed 
alternator, plus the water pump load, must not exceed the power take off design 
limits. This is at least an issue with the Yanmar YSE, YSB, and YSM series of 
engines. I don't know if there are any other common engine with designs similar 
in that respect, but it is worth checking before going and an buying too large 
an alternator for a specific engine. Yes the specific engines I mentioned are 
smaller than 20-35 HP, but there are many of us that do have em. An alternator 
that can actually deliver 100 amps will need around 3 horsepower to drive it. 

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON


-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Rich Knowles
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery charger recommendations?


And to increase the presumptuous factor:


The alternators that were supplied as original equipment with most small boat 
engines until recently were from 35 - 55 A with internal, single voltage output 
regulators. A good percentage of the engines were destined for use in small 
motor vessels and these alternators were adequate for that application. For our 
use, which sees greatly increased loads from, as Rick notes, radar and 
refrigeration, and lengthy battery discharge periods between charges, those 
alternators are bordering on inadequate, and certainly not as efficient and 
appropriate as higher power units with multi stage regulators. 


For sailing vessels, a central component of optimizing the electrical system 
should be upgrading the generating capacity of the charging system. This will 
involve replacing the alternator with the largest unit that can be fitted, 
taking physical restrictions, drive belt capacity and depth of pocket book into 
account. For most 20-35 HP engines, around 100A works well. There are a number 
of external regulators available that should be considered for installation as 
part of the new system. A new alternator with a multi-step regulator will 
considerably reduce the engine run time needed to replenish the batteries. 
Other devices such as wind generators and solar panels are important for long 
range travels as well to further reduce the dependency on the engine. 


For calculation purposes, I generally consider the usable capacity of batteries 
to be 30% rather than 50% of rated capacity. This stems from the fact that a 
50% discharged battery will charge to around 80% at a fairly linear rate which 
will drop significantly as the state of charge nears 100%. Trying to achieve 
the last 20% can take a long time compared to the first 30%. This will vary 
depending on battery type and condition, so my 30% figure is somewhat 
arbitrary, but fairly realistic.


A shore power fed battery charger from 20-40A will generally suffice to sustain 
loads from refrigeration, lighting and entertainment devices operating while 
the boat is alongside, and also provide enough power to replenish the 
batteries. Again, a multi-step unit designed for marine use should be chosen. 
There are lots of good marine chargers on the market. 


I note that non-marine AC chargers may not completely isolate the input from 
the output, a potentially dangerous situation on the water, and should be 
avoided. 


As Rick notes, designing an efficient, reliable electrical system is complex. 


It's snowing again. G!


Rich Knowles
INDIGO - LF38
Halifax, NS




On Dec 17, 2013, at 20:45, "Rick Brass"  wrote:


  Curtis;



  At the risk of being presumptuous, I think you have the cart before the horse.



  If your intent is extended cruising – particularly offshore cruising where 
you will not be using your engine for power (and to recharge the batteries) 
every day – you will first need to think about the systems you have on board 
and how much power they will draw. Refrigeration is a major draw. Radar? 
Autopilot? What instruments? What lights? Power for entertainment like radio or 
TV?  Small things like a 12 v electric coffee maker or a microwave draw a 
shocking amount of power out of your batteries.



  Once you know how many amp hours you will use on average, you can figure out 
how many additional batteries you need, what type, and where to put them. My 
average consumption right now is under 100 amp-hours/day. But I plan to run 
refrigeration (45 more AH) and to anchor out for extended periods. So my house 
bank is 4 deep cycle group 27 batteries with 46

Re: Stus-List Marine Plumbing

[Steve Thomas]

Red brass is ok, but about the only things made from it in common plumbing are 
chrome plated and bare pipe nipples. The term "red
brass" may refer to a couple of different alloys, but all have around 85% 
copper. It is really a type of bronze as far as I am
concerned, and all bronzes look redder in colour than yellow brass due to the 
higher copper content. Anyway, you can tell if a
threaded fitting or pipe is red brass by the reddish yellow colour of the 
machined surface of the threads.

Fully machined ordinary household and automotive plumbing fittings are made 
from yellow brass, which is not suitable for sea
water. Most cast valves are made from bronze, gate valves in particular, and 
they are ok from a corrosion standpoint. You can't
assume that a compression type valve is all bronze unless the manufacturer says 
so. Some have brass valve stems and cast bronze
bodies. All bronzes have more copper content than yellow brass, and the freshly 
cut metal is redder in colour.

I worked for a few years in the 1970s as a setup-operator on screw machines and 
various other machinery engaged in the manufacture
of above said objects. MASCO, Delta, Brass Craft, EMCO, Plumb Shop, Waltech, 
and a few more I can't remember, are all brands owned
by the same company and manufactured in the same facilities in my home town.

Steve

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Joel Aronson
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 3:20 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Marine Plumbing


Josh


No brass!  Bronze only.
I have qest fittings also. No one has questioned them.
I would not use Marelon. Many will disagree.

Joel


On Thursday, December 19, 2013, Josh Muckley wrote:

  Ok folks here's one I hope sparks a fury of conversation.

  My boat is outfitted almost entirely with the original fresh water plumbing, 
"qest" grey tubing and compression fittings.  I
have heard that it is an accident waiting to happen.   That it used to be used 
for homes and is now no longer available due to its
unreliability.  What should I replace it with?  Just regular old household 
plumbing from the hardware store?

  What guidance is there regarding the waste water and through hull fittings?  
All of my through-hulls are marelon, which i
understand is pretty popular.  Unfortunately the PO also used a mix if white 
and grey pvc in various places throughout the
seawater systems.  I've heard that doing that has been known to sink boats.

  He also used white PVC for various holding tank fittings is that ok or should 
it be replaced?

  What are the rules about brass, red brass, and bronze?

  Let the fury being!

  Thanks,
  Josh Muckley
  S/V Sea Hawk
  1989 C&C 37+
  Solomons, MD



--
Joel
301 541 8551
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Merry Christmas to all

[Steve Thomas]

I could not have said it any better. 

Steve

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of 
djhaug...@juno.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 12:40 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Merry Christmas to all


And to you!  ...and all of you.

Stu, I know you hear it a lot but, thank you so much for this forum and all you 
do to keep it up and running...

All the best guys!

Danny

T-Mobile. America’s First Nationwide 4G Network

- Reply message -
From: "Leslie Paal" 
To: 
Subject: Stus-List Merry Christmas to all
Date: Tue, Dec 24, 2013 12:17 pm




___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Merry Christmas to all

[Steve Thomas]

Actually a lot of people in Toronto are kind of screwed right now.
It hasn't been unusually cold for this time of year, but they and most of 
Southern Ontario east of here, got slammed with an ice
storm a couple of days ago.
Toronto alone still has 90,000 "customers" - meaning meters not people - 
without power. Across the province there are about
300,000 people who will be spending Christmas eve without electricity and the 
forecast low for Toronto is -14 Celsius.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ice-storm-will-mean-dark-christmas-for-thousands-of-canadians-1.2475190

or Google "Toronto ice storm".

Steve.

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Frederick G 
Street
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 4:15 PM
To: Ronald B. Frerker; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Merry Christmas to all


This morning when I got up it was -17F / -27C — that’s air temp.  Windchill 
about 10F / 5C colder.  Anyone else wanna go for
bragging rights?   :^)


You guys down further south (including Toronto) must be freezing this year… at 
least we’re (more or less) used to it.


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(


On Dec 24, 2013, at 3:00 PM, Ronald B. Frerker  wrote:


  Merry Christmas from a rather cold St. Louis this year; 7F this AM, rather 
well below normal.

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List C&C (1990) gelcoat matching

[Steve Thomas]

Dennis has already responded. 
Look back through the posts.

Steve. 

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of 
themo...@gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 3:45 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C (1990) gelcoat matching


Thanks for the response. If I don't hear from Dennis, I'll contact him.


Joanne
C&C 37/40+


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID


Joel Aronson  wrote:

Dennis knows of one. He gave me the name but I never got to that project. 

On Sunday, December 29, 2013, Us wrote:

  I hope this finds everyone relaxed and happy after Hanukkah and the Christmas 
season.
  We are in the process of completing a small repair on our hull and are having 
a problem matching the gelcoat. It appears that most of the available gelcoat 
is a few shades off (cream vs our grey-ish tint). Not acceptable in our book

  Has anyone had success with gelcoat suppliers and matching the 1990 tint? We 
are looking for a match and really only need a cup. Primary concern is the 
match.

  Joanne
  C&C 37/40+

  Sent from my iPad
  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com



-- 
Joel 
301 541 8551
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Stus-List C&C (1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion

[Steve Thomas]

  All this talk about gelcoat matching has got me thinking about everyone's 
seemingly universal preference for using epoxy (West
system in particular) for doing repairs. I am contemplating the purchase of a 
boat that I know has a couple of soft deck issues,
and it seems to me that since this is an all too frequent repair, how does one 
get the gelcoat to stick? I don't want to use
paint. Gelcoat manufacturers say don't do it. West says get rid of any amine 
blush, do everything by the book with the epoxy, and
it should be ok. Anyone had problems with this, or is it just a bit of over 
caution on the part of gelcoat manufacturers as West
claims?

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII



___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List C&C (1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion

[Steve Thomas]

 It is a Valiant 40 that is giving me the old come hither look.

  
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1977/Uniflite-Valiant-2645427/Newport/RI/United-States#.UsHZXvtuBzP

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Jack
Brennan
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:11 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C (1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion


Hi Steve:

I think polyester resin works just fine above the water line. You want epoxy 
below the waterline for its extra strength and better resistance to water 
intrusion, but polyester would do the job for fixing the deck. A lot 
cheaper, too, if you're using it by the gallon.

What boat are you looking at?

Jack Brennan
Former C&C 25
Shanachie, 1974 Bristol 30
Tierra Verde, Fl.

-Original Message----- 
From: Steve Thomas
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 8:45 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List C&C (1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion


  All this talk about gelcoat matching has got me thinking about everyone's 
seemingly universal preference for using epoxy (West
system in particular) for doing repairs. I am contemplating the purchase of 
a boat that I know has a couple of soft deck issues,
and it seems to me that since this is an all too frequent repair, how does 
one get the gelcoat to stick? I don't want to use
paint. Gelcoat manufacturers say don't do it. West says get rid of any amine 
blush, do everything by the book with the epoxy, and
it should be ok. Anyone had problems with this, or is it just a bit of over 
caution on the part of gelcoat manufacturers as West
claims?

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII



___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com 


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List C&C (1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion & V40

[Steve Thomas]

Yeah I noticed the things Jim mentioned, and more, but I liked motion of the 
Valiant 40 on passages better than the C&C designed
Baltic 39. The V40 has many features that make it a desirable cruiser. Nuff 
said on that. This particular boat was listed for
several months at US$ 65.9k and was reduced in price only in the last week. I 
am definitely not one of the 1%, so for me it is
worth a close look. It would at least be a lot of work but the mandatory boat 
bucks would depend mostly on underlying condition as
far as I can see. The owner is away doing a delivery but I did talk to the 
broker. There is a soft deck spot that needs attention
along the port genoa track according to him. That plus a stove and new 
instruments would be the starting point from what I know so
far, but you really can't judge a boat until you take a close look as far as 
I'm concerned. I would rather not have to overhaul
the engine, but parts for Universals are less expensive for parts than some. A 
friend of mine just completed a complete DIY
rebuild in Jacksonville, and it cost him US$ 7k for parts. There are deals to 
be had if you are handy. A friend of mine bought a
Whitby 42 for US$ 22.5k last summer. His C&C 38 which has twice taken him and 
his wife from Lake Erie to the Bahamas, is up for
sale. Might actually be a better deal at C$ 39k, but Valiants do fetch a higher 
price than C&Cs for boats of similar size and
condition.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Russ & Melody
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 11:51 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C (1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion & V40



Oh!

I was going to say, "That one won't last long."

(Maybe we're both right :)

Cheers, Russ


At 07:25 AM 31/12/2013, you wrote:

  Let me see...original engine, hours unknown...owner-modified with two extra 
hatches in coachroof...stove replaced with a very
large garbage can...and an asking price less than half of the next cheapest V40 
out there.

  What could possibly go wrong?


  On 30 December 2013 21:44, Steve Thomas  wrote:



 It is a Valiant 40 that is giving me the old come hither look.


  
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1977/Uniflite-Valiant-2645427/Newport/RI/United-States#.UsHZXvtuBzP


Steve Thomas

C&C27 MKIII
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List HNY

[Steve Thomas]

Happy New Year!

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Jim Watts
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 11:39 PM
To: 1 CnC List
Subject: Re: Stus-List HNY


Oooo! I like toast points! Especially with the crusts cut off, but I like those 
too.




On 31 December 2013 20:01, Russ & Melody  wrote:


  A Happy New year to you and yours, Rich.

  And a Happy New Year to all our fellow C&C friends. We wish you all the best 
to come.

  The Admiral & I spent a wonderful New Year's Eve at the backyard firepit, 
roasting New York steaks over wood coals. It was
overcast and dry, ~ 6 C (45 F). Lovely.

  Tomorrow we putter around the harbour and toast the points of the compass. 
Then a wee walk on Newcastle Island.
  Livin' the dream.

  Cheers, Russ
  Sweet 35 mk-1
  Nanaimo


  At 07:00 PM 31/12/2013, you wrote:

All the best to everyone! Only another 4 months of winter to endure:)

Rich

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com





--
Jim Watts
Paradigm Shift
C&C 35 Mk III
Victoria, BC
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List was (1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion (now my thoughts about V40s)

[Steve Thomas]

 Too true.

 Steve.

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Wally
Bryant
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 12:21 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List was (1990) gelcoat epoxy adhesion (now my
thoughts about V40s)


PS.  I believe that I recently said that if I ever bought another 
project boat I would rename it 'Chucky.'

"Hi!  I'm Chucky!  I'm your friend for life!"

Boats are like women.  Be careful what you sign up for.

Happy New Year,
Wal

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Fluxgate compass location - C& C 30

[Steve Thomas]

It may be too late or too much effort now, but a fairly tight and even twist in 
DC wiring will minimise magnetic effects.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On 
Behalf Of kelly petew
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 5:28 PM
To: cnc-list
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fluxgate compass location - C& C 30


Similar to Tom's, mine is mounted under the cabin sole b/t the galley and the 
NAV table.
It's a good spot, except that my refrigeration unit is located under the settee 
in front of galley sink.
If the autopilot is steering the boat, turning on the frig precipitates a 
"crazy ivan".but it eventually "calms down".
 
Otherwise, it's a good spot.  
 
Pete Winters
 
Siren Song
'91 C&C30 MKII

 

> 
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. 1989 C&C 30" (Leigh Mathews)
> 2. Re: 1989 C&C 30" (Rich Knowles)
> 3. Re: 1989 C&C 30 ft fluxgate compass location (Tom Christopher)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 16:28:51 -0700
> From: "Leigh Mathews" 
> To: 
> Subject: Stus-List 1989 C&C 30"
> Message-ID: <000801cd5c98$46ee7730$d4cb6590$@math...@telus.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Where is the best place to mount the compass for a RayMarine 4000+ ? It is
> currently mounted right beside the Display/Keypad which is on the Port
> Cockpit bulkhead between the Propane locker seat and the Port cockpit seat.
> Seems like it should be mounted further down closer to the centre line per
> the instructions.
> 
>___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List - Mast work

[Steve Thomas]

Actually you could use 2 wires and a DPDT switch to reverse the polarity, but 
you would have to install diodes to keep the lights
separated.
The downside is that you could not have both lights on at once.


-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On 
Behalf Of djhaug...@juno.com
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 3:32 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List - Mast work


Thats what I thought...I could run a three wire and use a 3-way switch.  That 
way there would be no chance of both being on at
once.

-- Original Message --
From: Stevan Plavsa 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List - Mast work
Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 15:18:15 -0400

I can't help with your other questions but I can comment on the deck/steaming. 
This was a decision I had to make back in the
spring when wiring my steaming/deck light as well. I only had one switch 
available to me (well in truth, only one wire run) and
had to choose. Of course, I chose steaming because it's required and deck 
lights are not. As yet, I haven't missed the deck light.
If you want to run them independently they will have to be independently wired. 
At minimum you'll need three wires.


Steve
C&C 32 Sea Swan
Toronto


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Thirty Thousand Cigars

[Steve Thomas]

 We don't have really big cockroaches in this part of the great white north.
 I was looking at a C&C 35 on the hard in Florida last December and discovered 
a big brown cockroach in one of the lockers. 
 I was about as wide as a good Cuban cigar, and maybe half as long.
 Moved pretty quick too. 
 The broker then nonchalantly said that he had thought that he had got them all 
with a bug bomb earlier that week. 
 
 All in all I would think it must take some getting used to, having bugs like 
that around all the time.

 Steve Thomas
 C&C27 MKIII
 Port Stanley, ON

-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Wally Bryant
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 8:27 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Thirty Thousand Cigars


According to the internet, one cockroach lays 30,000 eggs.   I guess I 
need to pass out cigars, but 30,000 Cuban cigars will *really* deplete 
the cruising kitty.

The babies are *so* cute.  There's nothing like the pitter-patter of 
little feet.

Wal

-- 
s/v Stella Blue
www.wbryant.com


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Exposure suit

[Steve Thomas]

Pete

Just a suggestion:
I would also try taking a look in whatever local or online advertising services 
(Craig's List, Ebay or whatever) are available in
your geographic comfort zone.
People buy them and they never get used and soon they are up for sale.
You may be able to purchase a not very used, but previously owned one for less 
than the cost of a rental.

See these for example:

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-sporting-goods-exercise-water-sports-Two-Anti-Exposure-Flotation-Suits-Large-and-Small-W0Q
QAdIdZ383253701

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/CANADIAN-MILITARY-MUSTANG-FLYERS-ANTI-EXPOSURE-SUIT-8-AVAILABLE-/260953040800?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=it
em3cc20367a0

or a really good Mustang for more money

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-clothing-mens-Mustang-MS-195-Atlantic-Class-Survival-Floater-Suit-W0QQAdIdZ389660725

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON


-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On 
Behalf Of Pete Shelquist
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2012 3:57 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Exposure suit


Long story, but does anyone have a lead on where I can borrow/rent an exposure 
suit?  Preferably in the Duluth or Minneapolis
area.  I need it as a race requirement for solo race Aug 4th on Lake Superior.



Here's an example of what I'm talking about:
http://www.mustangsurvival.com/professional/deluxe-anti-exposure-coverall-and-worksuit-uscg?division=professional



Thanks,

Pete




___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List So; anybody doing and sailing?

[Steve Thomas]

Single handed in a couple of races across Lake Erie on the long weekend.
Won one of them.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On 
Behalf Of Richard N. Bush
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:14 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List So; anybody doing and sailing?


I haven't anyone giving any accounts of any actual sailing; ... surely we're 
not all just doing maintenance?   As for myself, I am
happy to report that we went of the first time last Tuesday and used the main ( 
complete with mud dauber clods) and the 135, (the
new roller furling actually works!) and later we ran up the Spinnaker; asym and 
undersized, but man it was nice!


Richard
1987 33-II


Richard N. Bush Law Offices
235 South Fifth Street, Fourth Floor
Louisville, Kentucky 40202
502-584-7255



This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List So; anybody doing and sailing?

[Steve Thomas]

Start line to finish line 47.0 Nm, 8:10:52 actual et, Port Stanley to 
Ashtabula, plus an hour or so to the dock at either end.
We had mostly good wind that day, gusting to over 25 apparent for a while, 
close reaching mostly.
Pig roast that night at AYC.

Coming back was also a race, the 48th running of the Lake Erie International, 
but there was little wind and only 3 boats finished
under sail. All 3 were from Ashtabula (AYC).
Steak barbecue that night at the Port Stanley Sailing Squadron.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On 
Behalf Of Richard N. Bush
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 2:29 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List So; anybody doing and sailing?



Wow, how long does that take?  What do you do for the return trip?


Richard
1987 33-II


Richard N. Bush Law Offices
235 South Fifth Street, Fourth Floor
Louisville, Kentucky 40202
502-584-7255



-Original Message-
From: Steve Thomas 
To: cnc-list 
Sent: Fri, Jul 13, 2012 2:14 pm
Subject: Re: Stus-List So; anybody doing and sailing?


Single handed in a couple of races across Lake Erie on the long weekend.
Won one of them.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On 
Behalf Of Richard N. Bush
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 12:14 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List So; anybody doing and sailing?


I haven't anyone giving any accounts of any actual sailing; ... surely we're 
not all just doing maintenance?   As for myself, I am
happy to report that we went of the first time last Tuesday and used the main ( 
complete with mud dauber clods) and the 135, (the
new roller furling actually works!) and later we ran up the Spinnaker; asym and 
undersized, but man it was nice!


Richard
1987 33-II


Richard N. Bush Law Offices
235 South Fifth Street, Fourth Floor
Louisville, Kentucky 40202
502-584-7255



This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Electrical Block

[Steve Thomas]

Looks like it might be a current shunt for an ammeter.

-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On 
Behalf Of Joel Aronson
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 3:53 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Electrical Block


Danny,


Almost looks like a high amp fuse, but I think it is just a block.  Might want 
to move the bilge pump hose off that wire!
BTW, nice stuffing box, but I don't know the answer to the grease question.


Joel


On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 3:45 PM, djhaug...@juno.com  wrote:


  Another question

  Is this Positive block, just that a positive block or is it something more?

  https://skydrive.live.com/embed?cid=CCBEFDFB44F8315F&resid=CCBEFDFB44F8315F%21309&authkey=ABkwZnrwurnZ08s";
width="320" height="180" frameborder="0" scrolling="no">

  or this link if that doesn't work...

  http://sdrv.ms/PebU41

  Danny


  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com






--
Joel
301 541 8551
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Cabin top traveller and mainsheet setup

[Steve Thomas]

The only thing I don't like about cam cleats is that they can be difficult to 
release under load; like when there is a sudden gust of wind and you want to 
ease the main. Wouldn't it be better to locate the cleat forward of the winch, 
deck space permitting? 

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On 
Behalf Of Rich Knowles
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2012 3:06 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Cabin top traveler and mainsheet setup


One other little thing:  I installed a cam cleat on the cabin top immediately 
next to the right side of the main sheet winch. In light to medium air we don't 
use the winch, just drop the line in the cleat as needed. Saves a lot of line 
wrapping, winching and releasing. Fast too. 

Rich 
(mobile)

On 2012-08-02, at 15:52, Stevan Plavsa  wrote:


Thanks all! That's some great feedback. And you guys are fast!
I've considered moving the traveller aft, but ... it's kind of nice not banging 
body parts on it in the cockpit and the expense it would incur is prohibitive 
at the moment. I need new sails more than I need a new traveler arrangement. 
Primary uses right now are cruising but I would like to start racing once I 
have more experience. Mostly I just want things to be easier on the crew.


I checked out the main sheet systems on Harken's site, some very good info 
there. I think maybe the easiest thing right now will be to go for a 6:1 
purchase. 
I do like the "admiral's cup" setup .. I'm in the habit of sitting on the low 
side and working the genoa sheets while steering anyway, adding the main to 
that arrangement means I can leave my girlfriend be. Problem: I don't have 
secondary winches. I do however, have a pair of Barient 28's (non ST) actually 
serving as weights on a shelf at home and I would love to trade them for some 
smaller self-tailers if anyone is interested. My primaries are Barient 27s, 
self tailing .. and the 28's are too big to be secondaries on my boat. Not sure 
if this is a reasonable trade, I should probably just sell them but I have no 
idea what they're worth. If anyone has any input I'de appreciate it.

Lastly, I ask her to take the wheel all the time for just these reasons! She 
seems to be warming up to it but in general she doesn't like it! She gets 
really nervous and I'm sure my "suppressing criticism" face doesn't help out in 
that regard. I guess I'll just keep doing what I did earlier this week and go 
down below for a nap!


Steve


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Stuck screw, PHRF

[Steve Thomas]

 One other thing you can do to get a more positive engagement when dealing with 
Phillips head screws is to grind the point of the
screw driver down a bit. The point sticks out too far on almost all of them. Be 
careful, as it is easy to remove too much if using
a bench grinder. I don't understand why Phillips screws remain so popular. 
Robertson heads are a much better design, except for
assembly line use.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Gosse, Rob
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 9:33 AM
To: 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Stuck screw, PHRF


If there's any of the Phillips head left but you can't get the screwdriver to 
bite in it, if it's starting to strip, put a glob of
valve grinding compound in it then your screwdriver tip. The grit will help the 
screwdriver from stripping the head. 
Also try heat on the screw. 

On 2012-08-04, at 10:25 AM, "Joel Aronson"  wrote:

> I'm trying to remove the set screw on the exterior knob of my forward hatch.  
> The knob is aluminum.  The screw is a phillips
head screw.  I've used PB Blaster and I'm letting it soak in.  If that doesn't 
work, what is the next step?  Heat? drill/dremel
(I'm afraid I'll get more aluminum than screw)? new knobs and a saw?
> 
> Also, for the first time in 12 years my boat has a current PHRF certificate!  
> With the addition of a furler it is now rated at
129.  Now I need to work on a crew!  Ordering sail numbers from Defender!
> 
> -- 
> Joel 
> 35/3
> The Office
> Annapolis
> 301 541 8551
> ___
<>___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List more on transmission leak/redo seals?

[Steve Thomas]

If you are in the States, these guys can help you with parts and advice:
 
http://shop.torresen.com/marine_diesel_direct/Yanmar/ 
<http://shop.torresen.com/marine_diesel_direct/Yanmar/> 
 
They also have an ask/answer forum.
 
Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
 
-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On 
Behalf Of Nate Flesness
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 1:23 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List more on transmission leak/redo seals?



 

I posted earlier about a 1 one ounce per running hour leak of transmission 
fluid by my kanazaki-hurth KBW-10 transmission (on a
Yanmar 2QM15).  Looks like the ONE area diesel &tranny mechanic (Haukie) is 
booked solid until Christmaslots of 1980's boats
in our area on Lake Superior, all getting older...

 

So, encouraged by dockside advisors, I'm reluctantly considering removing it 
and replacing at least the three seals myself. Access
is fairly good from the big lazarettes, I have advice to remove WITH the rear 
engine mounts attached (will weigh less than 30
lbs), use an inflatable something to support the little 140 lb yanmar aft end, 
and one of my dockside advisors will help with
final alignment of the shaft on reassembly.

 

Anyone know where to buy seals and/or other parts?  

 

Anyone done it with advice to offer?

 

Nate

"Sarah Jean"

1980 30-1

Siskiwit Bay Marina

Lake Superior

 

 

 

<>___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Real Time Great Lakes Water Surface Temperature

[Steve Thomas]

Great graphic presentation!

These two are interesting as well, but not nearly as colourful.

http://www.coastwatch.msu.edu/erie/e2.html  - temps in isotherms

http://www.lre.usace.army.mil/greatlakes/hh/datalinks/PrinterFriendly/DailyLevelsEnglish.pdf
  - lake levels: current, last year,
forecast, and monthly long term averages.

Steve


-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On 
Behalf Of Colin Kilgour
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 4:11 PM
To: C&C List
Subject: Stus-List Real Time Great Lakes Water Surface Temperature


This is a neat little site that Great Lakes boaters might appreciate.

http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/db_products/SST/great_lakes/

>From this chart (and from dipping my toes in a week ago while in Michigan's 
>UP) it looks like even Lake Superior would be
swimmable right about now.

Cheers,
Colin

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List C&C 34 Sail Selection and Reefing

[Steve Thomas]

Mystique, a C&C27 MKIII, is as tender as any of the old C&Cs and I have long 
considered putting in a 3rd set of reef points. A
storm main sail is pretty much out of the question unless permanently rigged on 
a separate track imho. Otherwise changing mains
once the wind has picked up sounds difficult at best. I have found the option 
of a second reef to be useful on many occasions, and
I think you would too.

As for sailing with no main at all, my experience has been that performance to 
weather suffers noticeably. The boat has proven to
have better balance at the helm than I had originally expected. This must be 
due at least in part, to hydrodynamic effects that
tend to make the boat want to round up the harder it is driven leeward. 
Whatever the reason, rudder drag is not is not what makes
the boat go slower if the helm is reasonably well balanced, so it has got to be 
the  sail plan.

I think you will get better performance with even a scrap of mainsail up when 
going to weather, and probably on a reach as well.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

Steve Thomas
sv Mystique
C&C 27MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of OldSteveH
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 1:55 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 34 Sail Selection


Thanks for feedback. I was quoting true wind so add 5 knots.
We didn't lose the 1/2 knot of speed when reefing, only once we doused
the main.
I too have inboard tracks for the #3, they work well.

John, the 34's main is not all that big to start with, I have considered
having a second reef point put in but didn't think it was worth the bother.

Cheers,

Steve Hood
S/V Diamond Girl
C&C 34
Lions Head ON




On Aug 7, 2012, at 8:32 PM, "John and Maryann Read"
 wrote:
>> Sounds about right and what we experience.  For racing, we use a full hoist
>> #3 with battens that not quite overlaps the shrouds and uses an inboard
>> track I mounted on the cabin top.  Starts to be really effective at 25
>> apparent.  We have 2 reefs in the main, and if all that is too much it is
>> time for the storm sail.  Key is keep up boat speed and VMG.  The more on
>> her feet, the better the VMG
>>
>> John and Maryann
>> Legacy III
>> 1982 C&C 34
>> Noank, CT
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
>> On Behalf Of dwight veinot
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2012 12:52 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 34 Sail Selection
>>
>> Sounds about right...the only important winds when under sail are apparent
>> winds so I assume you are giving apparent wind strengths...surprised you
>> lost 1/2 kt boat speed when you reefed, I would have expected less or no
>> speed loss and less heel with more control in puffs...I also had a 24 and a
>> 27III, before I got my present boat the 35 MKII which is a bit stiffer that
>> either the 24 or the 27 MKIII but IMHO it could do with about 500 pounds
>> more ballast low despite that it already has nearly 6000 pounds of lead in
>> the keel
>>
>> Dwight Veinot
>> C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
>> Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS
>> -Original Message-
>> From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
>> On Behalf Of OldSteveH
>> Sent: August 7, 2012 1:32 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Stus-List C&C 34 Sail Selection
>>
>>
>> Now in my 3rd summer with this boat I am getting better at choosing sails
>> for the wind conditions, and would like to know how it compares with others
>> experiences.
>>
>>  From I have heard the 34 is a 'Lake Ontario' boat, designed for light air
>> conditions, but able to handle other conditions as one would expect.
>>
>> Yesterday my crew and I were quite comfortable in steady 22-25 knot winds
>> carrying the 3 and a full main on a beat, eventually putting in a reef. Heel
>> angle was 20ish. When gusts to 27-29 started we were getting over to 30
>> degrees at times and I had to feather even the reefed main to keep the boat
>> on its feet. We kept hull speed the whole time.
>>
>> Per other posts baby stay tension was moderate, backstay had 2500 psi on
>> adjuster, mast pumping was minimal, weather helm one wedge of my wheel.
>>
>> Once we got steadily overpowered I dropped the main and sailed under #3
>> only, with much better heel angle. But we lost 1/2 a knot to about 6.2-6.3.
>> Mast pumped a bit more but I only have 2:1 purch

Re: Stus-List Sailing gloves

[Steve Thomas]

I hardly ever use gloves either unless it is cold weather.
Might be different on a heavier boat, - got a pretty good burn off the 
mainsheet on a heavy cruiser one time.

That being said, when it is cold out I have found that your basic black pigskin 
winter driving gloves have the best dexterity and
warmth even when wet. Probably not the most durable, but certainly the most 
effective. The Mechanix brand gloves have a good grip,
but they are not warm when wet. I have never found any of the cut finger 
sailing gloves to be comfortable to wear.

Steve Thomas
sv Mystique
C&C57 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On 
Behalf Of Frederick G Street
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 10:53 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Sailing gloves


On Aug 9, 2012, at 9:39 AM, Ian Matthew wrote:


  Fred - you mustn't be doing any sheet adjustment!


Well, I don't race, so that reduces adjustments a bit...


When I'm out in variable conditions, unless I'm sailing in tight quarters, I 
adjust by heading up in the puffs.  I'm often more or
less single-handing the boat, so I spend my time at the wheel rather than the 
sheets.


When conditions are more settled or steady, I get things initially adjusted for 
the conditions and desired heading, then set the
autopilot.  Then I'm free to tweak a bit to get things happy.


As a non-racer, I'm less apt to constantly tweak things.  I'd rather settle 
down in the cockpit and have lunch or read a bit (or
just  enjoy the day) while the boat takes me to my anchorage for the night...   
:^)


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Extremely stiff throttle

[Steve Thomas]

 I think that those cable crushing friction clamps may be OEM, and not due to a 
previous owner.

 Anyway, lots of C&Cs do have them.

 I would have preferred a model T or tractor style throttle adjuster to what we 
have.

 Steve Thomas
 1978 C&C27 MKIII

-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Bill Connon
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 11:44 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Extremely stiff throttle


Indigo wrote:
> Up to recently my throttle has, if anything, been on the loose side. However 
> this last Wednesday I had to use a great deal of
force to increase the revs from idle and a similar force to return to idle.  I 
plan to take a close look at the cable and clips,
but has anyone experienced this who can guide me to a likely cause?
>
> Jonathan
> Indigo 35mk III
> Southport CT
> ___
>
  I just changed my cable the other day. It had reached the point where
my wife could no longer change lever position and I had to force enough
to worry about breaking the cable. I found that some previous owner had
installed a clamp/adjustable bolt affair that would collapse the outer
cover onto the inner cable to adjust the friction and thus the effort
required to move the throttle lever. I tried slacking the bolt/nut off
but that only worked for a day or so.  When I removed the cable to
change it I saw where the bolt had broken the  outer casing allowing
water to get in and rust the metal sheathing. The replacement cable on
my 36 was a 9 foot universal made by Teleflex in the US and cost about
$40. It's a bit of a pain to change it but at 5' 10" and 160 lbs I was
able to get to where I needed to be to change it.

Bill
Caprice 1

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List C&C 115 Lost on Lake Erie

[Steve Thomas]

It would be interesting to find out their story. 
I sure can't picture why they did what they did based on what we have heard so 
far. 
 
I know one guy with a C&C32 that got a line wrapped around the prop shaft and 
decided to use a winch on the line.
He pulled off the strut, but managed to get a tow before his boat sank.
 
Steve Thomas
 
-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On 
Behalf Of Della Barba, Joe
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 1:40 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 115 Lost on Lake Erie



If you wanted the boat back you would…..

 

Joe Della Barba

 

From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On 
Behalf Of Joel Aronson
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 12:49 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 115 Lost on Lake Erie

 

Wouldn't you drop an anchor just to slow the boat and keep it off the rocks 
before you abandoned it even if you didn't have enough
line to anchor?

 

Joel

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Tim Sippel < tim.sip...@rci.rogers.com 
<mailto:tim.sip...@rci.rogers.com> > wrote:

Somewhere there’s an insurance adjuster preparing a (extensive) list of 
questions 

 

Tim 

 

 

From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>  
[mailto: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
<mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> ] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 11:13 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 115 Lost on Lake Erie

 

Finders keepers?  If so, I'll rent the copter!

 

Joel

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 11:10 AM, Bill Coleman < colt...@verizon.net 
<mailto:colt...@verizon.net> > wrote:

Latest on this C&C 115, apparently the owner had a young crew and his 
girlfriend take the boat back up the lake, and they got a
line wrapped around the prop a couple miles out.  Don’t know why they couldn’t 
sail it back, but anyway they were picked off, CG
only had available a small boat, so, probably why they didn’t tow the boat 
back.  Might have been worth a call to Tow Boat US, The
boat is still at large on the lake. It may be a salvage case if he can’t get it 
himself, I would hire a helicopter if it was my
boat!

 

Bill Coleman

C&C 39 

 

From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>  
[mailto: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
<mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com> ] On Behalf Of Bill Coleman
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2012 4:01 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Subject: Stus-List C&C 115 Lost on Lake Erie

 

Now this is wild. Just received this notice  - 

 

Notice to Boaters

Boat adrift or lost in Lake Erie Saturday Night..August  11 after Falcon Cup in 
Mentor. Crew taken off�.all safe�Blue Gray C&C 115
named Blue Dog�

 


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com <http://www.cncphotoalbum.com> 
CnC-List@cnc-list.com <mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> 





 

-- 
Joel 
301 541 8551  


This e-mail (and attachment(s)) is confidential, proprietary, may be subject to 
copyright and legal privilege and no related
rights are waived. If you are not the intended recipient or its agent, any 
review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
e-mail or any of its content is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. All 
messages may be monitored as permitted by applicable
law and regulations and our policies to protect our business. E-mails are not 
secure and you are deemed to have accepted any risk
if you communicate with us by e-mail. If received in error, please notify us 
immediately and delete the e-mail (and any
attachments) from any computer or any storage medium without printing a copy.

Ce courriel (ainsi que ses pièces jointes) est confidentiel, exclusif, et peut 
faire l’objet de droit d’auteur et de privilège
juridique; aucun droit connexe n’est exclu. Si vous n’êtes pas le destinataire 
visé ou son représentant, toute étude, diffusion,
transmission ou copie de ce courriel en tout ou en partie, est strictement 
interdite et peut être illégale. Tous les messages
peuvent être surveillés, selon les lois et règlements applicables et les 
politiques de protection de notre entreprise. Les
courriels ne sont pas sécurisés et vous êtes réputés avoir accepté tous les 
risques qui y sont liés si vous choisissez de
communiquer avec nous par ce moyen. Si vous avez reçu ce message par erreur, 
veuillez nous en aviser immédiatement et supprimer ce
courriel (ainsi que toutes ses pièces jointes) de tout ordinateur ou support de 
données sans en imprimer une copie. 


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cn

Re: Stus-List A4 Engine alignment -> valve clearance

[Steve Thomas]

You do realise that occasional adjustment of the lifters is necessary with a 
solid lifter engine? How often is highly variable and
somewhat dependent on the owner, but it is not at all unusual to at least check 
the clearances once the valves have a chance to
seat in after a valve job. The main effect of a small amount of excess 
clearance is a small amount of performance loss.

I once knew a guy who owned an MG sports car. He was always fiddling with the 
lifters on that thing.

Steve Thomas

-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On 
Behalf Of djhaug...@juno.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 2:19 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List A4 Engine alignment -> valve clearance


Well,
I got this response from Don Moyer himself after sending him a link to a video 
of my A4 running;

"Danny,
Sorry, but I'm not hearing any ticking sound and I listened to the video
several times.

We test all our engines on a dynamometer at 2000 RPM for several hours with
the water brake set at a 10 HP load (the power required to drive a Catalina
30 to hull speed of 6.1 knots) with no threatening noise being heard.  So,
with our dyno test, along with not hearing anything in your video, I'm
comfortable to tell you to keep using the engine for at least the 50 hour
break-in period.  If an apparent valve noise is still present, you can reset
the valves at that time.

Regards,

Don Moyer  "

-- Original Message --
From: Russ & Melody 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List A4 Engine alignment -> valve clearance
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 11:11:34 -0700


Ah, yes. Might be time to give them a call. They may even have a local contact 
that will come by to 'ave a look.


At 10:55 AM 15/08/2012, you wrote:

  Yea, well this a Moyer exchange engine and I shouldn't have to adjust 
anything.  If they need adjusted someone from moyer should
come up and do it, right?
  DAnny


  -- Original Message --
  From: Russ & Melody 
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Subject: Re: Stus-List A4 Engine alignment -> valve clearance
  Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 10:39:54 -0700

  Hi Danny,

  Note, it's a different clearance hot vs cold. I liked setting to hot 
clearance (while hot of course) because that is where the
engine spends most of it's running time.

  This is good.
  http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2927

   Cheers, Russ
  Sweet 35 mk-1

  At 10:15 AM 15/08/2012, you wrote:

Danny,


you'll need to look up the clearance for the lifters.  With the valve cover 
off you should be able to tell which valve needs
adjusting, but you might as well do them all.  Intake and exhaust usually have 
different clearances.  Don't go less than spec or
you risk bending a valve.


Joel


On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 12:28 PM, Della Barba, Joe  wrote:


  The A4 is a solid lifter engine.

  Joe Della Barba

  ___
  This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
  http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
  CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Battery Setup - now Solar Charging

[Steve Thomas]

This woman has the coolest mounting for her solar panels that I have ever seen.
Something I might want to duplicate some day.

The rest of the video is a description and example of a well designed system in 
use, along with some general comments about solar
and wind power on sailboats.

Rebecca has posted many videos of her adventures and life aboard Angel, as she 
sails the gulf coast and Keys of Florida.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esFgjdzVQvw&feature=channel&list=UL



-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On 
Behalf Of djhaug...@juno.com
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 1:26 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery Setup


Thats good info...So, even though the deep cells start the engine fine, it's 
not really the greatest idea to use them that way?

I would like to go with a solar charging system and some recommendations would 
be great!



-- Original Message --
From: "Marek Dziedzic" 
To: 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Battery Setup
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2012 12:28:17 -0400



The main reason for a separate starting and house batteries is that they are of 
different type (construction). the starting
battery is supposed to give you high output (100A ?) for a short time, but it 
hates to be discharged. he house battery should be
deep -cycle, I.e. it allows to be discharged quite a bit (at least, down to 50% 
or even lower) without damage, but it does not
like high output that might be required to start an engine (I don't have an 
inboard, so I don't have the problem).

If you run high current through a deep-cycle battery you may damage the plates.

There are batteries that would work fine in both situations (some AGMs), but I 
don't think you have any of those.

Btw. if you go solar, don't skimp on the regulator. Without one or with a cheap 
one, you can kill the battery in no time. Don't
ask how I know.

Marek
s/v Fennel (C&C 24)
Ottawa
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Isaac..prepping for storm and surge

[Steve Thomas]

Some people seem to think that if they have an insurance policy then they are 
relieved of all responsibility for reasonable and
prudent precaution.
It is an attitude that needs to be discouraged.
 
Steve Thomas
 
-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On 
Behalf Of Della Barba, Joe
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 11:26 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com; Dennis C.
Subject: Re: Stus-List Isaac..prepping for storm and surge



Around here about 50-60% of people do NOTHING L

Keeps me and everyone else that stays on their boats busy.

 

Joe Della Barba

 

<>___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Isaac recap

[Steve Thomas]

Sorry to hear of yet another boating fatality.
We had a couple more here on Lake Erie and Lake Huron this weekend.
None of the bodies recovered so far this year were wearing PFDs.
 
They are worn on my boat. 
I have noticed that the passengers and crew almost invariably follow the lead 
of whatever the skipper does in this respect.
It really is up to us to set an example.
 
Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON
 
-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On 
Behalf Of Della Barba, Joe
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 11:52 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Isaac recap



Glad all is OK.

Isaac's remnants hit about 30 seconds after I dropped  the mooring line in 
Annapolis to head home. We got 30+ knots and it pissed
down rain. Apparently we have a fatality too L There was a MOB and from the 
radio chatter no one had found him by the end of the
day. He was not wearing a PFD. Come on people, the water was warm and a lot of 
boats were looking. The guy could have been put
back on the boat no worse for wear if anyone could find him!

The wind remained highly variable all day and essentially devised a way to 
remain dead ahead no matter where I went.

 

Joe Della Barba Coquina C&C 35 MK I

 

 

 
<>___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Yanmar question

[Steve Thomas]

Earlier someone recommended a thorough check for clogs in the system first.
I would second that advice.
Thought I had an elbow or water injector problem once but it turned out to be a 
partial sea water clog that was entirely confined
to the hose barb going in to the sea water strainer.
Couldn't see it. Took off the hoses, took off the bowl, all seemed ok.
Thermostat was stuck, so I ordered a new one.
The top part of the strainer was secured to the boat, and I didn't take it off 
until much later, which made the problem relatively
easy to see.
Partial flows can be deceptive.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII


-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On 
Behalf Of jim aridas
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 3:31 PM
To: capt...@yahoo.com; cnc-list
Subject: Re: Stus-List Yanmar question


Humm, knew we would get at least one witty response.


Thank you all for the info. Figured it sounded like constricted flow. Gonna get 
the elbow and nipple replacements first. Then pull
it apart
and replace them. Agree no sense putting back the old ones.
thanks again,
Jim
Galaxy 34'





Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 20:11:19 -0700
From: capt...@yahoo.com
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Yanmar question


Jake wrote:



  "I always check the nipples first!" 



I'm a leg man myself.


Dennis C.



--
  From: Jake Brodersen 
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Sent: Monday, September 10, 2012 7:06 PM
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Yanmar question



  Jim,

  There are ample opportunities for problems in the raw water cooling system.  
The easiest to check is the nipple on the exhaust
elbow.  If it was installed with some never seize lube, it should be easy to 
remove and check.  They do tend to gum up with salt
deposits from time to time.  I always check the nipples first!

  The next most likely suspect would be a clogged exhaust elbow.  I have 
removed mine in the past and cleaned it out with a coat
hanger.  No pretty, but it may buy you a year or two.  Replacement is the best 
course of action, especially since you have it off
already.

  I removed my heat exchanger and had it hot tanked a number of years ago.  It 
wasn’t in bad shape, but now I feel better about
it.

  Good raw water flow will keep your exhaust quiet.  That’s how I can tell my 
system needs attention, by the change in sound.  I
switched from the SS stock muffler to a smaller fiberglass muffler a couple 
years ago.  It sounds great.  Not loud, but nice an
mellow.

  Jake

  Jake Brodersen
  C&C 35 Mk-III
  "Midnight Mistress
  Hampton VA



___ This List is provided by the 
C&C Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Dealing with humidity

[Steve Thomas]

Danny,
   You should know that your email postings include a number of small 
suspicious looking .htm and .gif attachments.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On 
Behalf Of djhaug...@juno.com
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 4:23 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Dealing with humidity


It seemed it was the evening when things went real soggy.  We had some nice 
warm, sunny, dry days.  I'd get the boat all dried out
and then the sun goes down, temp drops and humidity spiked in the boat.

Danny
Viking 33
south coast, MA


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List NMEA 0183 Ver.1.5 to 3.0

[Steve Thomas]

I have been seriously considering getting one of those radios myself.

The GX2150 documentation suggests that you should be able to configure it get 
GPS data from an NMEA 0183 source into the radio
without a converter, if that is all you are trying to do.

If you are planning to use an external display for the AIS data as well, then 
it appears to get complicated.

I will be interested to hear how your installation works out.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII



-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On 
Behalf Of Bill Coleman
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:17 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List NMEA 0183 Ver.1.5 to 3.0


am looking for a filter to convert NMEA 0183 Ver 1.5 to a higher version to 
bring GPS from an older Raymarine RL80CRC Chartplotter
into a new Standard Horizon GX2150 VHF.

Has anyone ever done this, or know of  a place that sells these?



Thanks





Bill Coleman

C&C 39


<>___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List NMEA 0183 Ver.1.5 to 3.0

[Steve Thomas]

Bill,
   I think that the Raymarine techie may have mis-read page 8-30 of the 
RL80CRC manual. It refers to a 1.5 metre NMEA cable,
not NMEA version 1.5.
"The 1.5 m NMEA OUT cable has a ferrite clamp attached to ensure EMC 
conformance."

Anyway, take a look at the sentences available in appendix D and compare to the 
sentences available in the various NMEA standards.
All the usual GPS suspects are there as far as I can see, and certainly more 
than are defined in the NMEA 1.5 standard. GGA in
particular is present, and ought to be the key.

You probably have what you need already. You should be able to just hook it up 
to the radio, and make sure the radio is set for
4800 baud input. Leave the grey and the brown wires from the radio disconnected.

If you have tried it already, and it didn't work, I would take a look at the 
configuration options for the RL80CRC display. There
are choices for whether of not to bridge the NMEA input to SEATALK output that 
may affect NMEA output. There are specific sentence
options as well.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON


-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On 
Behalf Of Bill Coleman
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 8:47 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List NMEA 0183 Ver.1.5 to 3.0


Agreed, my understanding is that I need at least 2.0 to provide that sentence.  
The techie from Raymarine told me that My
Chartplotter was NMEA 1.5 and the radio would not read anything below 2.0, thus 
the problem. I can buy a separate antenna from
Standard to solve that problem, but I already have the NMEA at the radio, so a 
converter even for 120 bucks would be a tossup but
much less work. Showing AIS on my chartplotter is not in the cards, as It will 
not accept the 38400Baud from the radio. But I can
at least see it on the radio and handset and set alarms.

Assuming the ship has their AIS on.  Another lister, Jeff whom I know is 
lurking here found out after our annual fall cross-lake
race Saturday nite.  Coming in after a 62 mile (if it was a straight line!) 
race, coming up to the R2 buoy, a 750' freighter
nearly ran him over in the dark with NO AIS, sounds like an interesting story, 
maybe he will elaborate. Hopefully he has changed
his underwear by now . . .





Bill Coleman

C&C 39

Erie



From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On 
Behalf Of Della Barba, Joe
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 7:56 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List NMEA 0183 Ver.1.5 to 3.0



It isn't the version - it is the sentences.

http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/nmea.htm#nmea



You need the GPS to output a sentence the radio can read.





Joe Della Barba

Coquina

C&C 35 MK 1

www.dellabarba.com

CRYC



From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On 
Behalf Of Steve Thomas
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 7:34 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List NMEA 0183 Ver.1.5 to 3.0



I have been seriously considering getting one of those radios myself.



The GX2150 documentation suggests that you should be able to configure it get 
GPS data from an NMEA 0183 source into the radio
without a converter, if that is all you are trying to do.



If you are planning to use an external display for the AIS data as well, then 
it appears to get complicated.



I will be interested to hear how your installation works out.



Steve Thomas

C&C27 MKIII







-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On 
Behalf Of Bill Coleman
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:17 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List NMEA 0183 Ver.1.5 to 3.0

am looking for a filter to convert NMEA 0183 Ver 1.5 to a higher version to 
bring GPS from an older Raymarine RL80CRC Chartplotter
into a new Standard Horizon GX2150 VHF.

Has anyone ever done this, or know of  a place that sells these?



Thanks





Bill Coleman

C&C 39


<>___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List NMEA 0183 Ver.1.5 to 3.0

[Steve Thomas]

Seems there is an electrical difference between 0183 1.xx and 0183 2.xx and 
later versions.
The 1.xx versions are single ended, signal and ground, while the 2.xx and later 
have differential + and - signal wires and should
have a separate ground/shield.

Funny thing is that the GX2150 does not have differential inputs.

Anyway here is what one guy did to interface an RL series plotter to a GX2100.

Might be worth a try.

 
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/electronics/82335-how-connect-standard-horizon-gx2100-ais-vhf-raymarine-rl-70c-plotter.html

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON



 -Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On 
Behalf Of Frederick G Street
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:50 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List NMEA 0183 Ver.1.5 to 3.0


Bill take a look at this PDF, starting with page 9:


http://www.actisense.com/Downloads/TechTalk/NMEA%200183/The%20NMEA%200183%20Information%20Sheet.pdf


This might help.  In my experience, sometimes there are issues with what gets 
labeled "input" vs. "output", as well as data +
and – or ground; but be really careful what you try so you don't damage things. 
 Usually it's just as easy as connecting the
properly labeled leads together to get the signal to the proper place -- the 
problem comes in getting the settings right on the
send and receive end, so that everything's happy.


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(


On Sep 21, 2012, at 10:25 AM, Bill Coleman wrote:


  Hello Steve,
  This tech was pretty sharp, he was not reading from the manual – it is a 
2003, so I believe him when he says it is 1.5
  There also is no mention at all of versions, let alone Baud rates, , he said 
it was 4800, period. The only thing I can adjust in
the setup is turning sentences on and off, and the seatalk bridge.
  I have tried connecting them, no response.  The sentences are coming in, the 
voltage rolls up and down.  I think there must be
something different in the protocol between 1.5 and 2.  The Standard Horizon 
manual definitely says it will only work  with ver.
2.0 and up. I have bridged NMEA to Seatalk as that is how the Autopilot 
communicates, but I don’t think this would be a problem,
that just introduces other info such as the compass and converts to NMEA, I 
think.
  A talk with a Standard Horizon Tech produced nothing, oddly enough he didn’t 
seem to know much about NEMA conversions.
  Waiting to hear back from Brookhouse.

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List NMEA 0183 Ver.1.5 to 3.0

[Steve Thomas]

Sometimes a simple pull up resistor makes a difference too. Used to be pretty 
common on high speed busses.
I can't seem to locate the link right now, but I recall an article that said 
one was necessary to get the GX2100 to interface with
certain brands of equipment. Wouldn't be surprising given the wide range of 
"acceptable" voltages in use. Nothing in the Standard
Horizon documented differences GX2100 vs GX2150 on signal specifications, but 
that doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't make
changes.
 
Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON
 
-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On 
Behalf Of Della Barba, Joe
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 12:42 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List NMEA 0183 Ver.1.5 to 3.0



Usually you can use single-ended. My GPS, AIS unit, VHF and APRS gear all use 
single-ended data connections. The computer is
supposed to be differential but seems to read the + and ground signal just fine.

 

Joe Della Barba

Coquina 

From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On 
Behalf Of Steve Thomas
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 12:29 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List NMEA 0183 Ver.1.5 to 3.0

 

Seems there is an electrical difference between 0183 1.xx and 0183 2.xx and 
later versions. 

The 1.xx versions are single ended, signal and ground, while the 2.xx and later 
have differential + and - signal wires and should
have a separate ground/shield.

 

Funny thing is that the GX2150 does not have differential inputs. 

 

Anyway here is what one guy did to interface an RL series plotter to a GX2100.

 

Might be worth a try.

 

  
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/electronics/82335-how-connect-standard-horizon-gx2100-ais-vhf-raymarine-rl-70c-plotter.html
<http://www.sailnet.com/forums/electronics/82335-how-connect-standard-horizon-gx2100-ais-vhf-raymarine-rl-70c-plotter.html>
 

 

Steve Thomas

C&C27 MKIII

Port Stanley, ON

 

 

 

 -Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>  
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
<mailto:[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]> On Behalf Of Frederick G Street
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 11:50 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> 
Subject: Re: Stus-List NMEA 0183 Ver.1.5 to 3.0

Bill take a look at this PDF, starting with page 9: 

 

http://www.actisense.com/Downloads/TechTalk/NMEA%200183/The%20NMEA%200183%20Information%20Sheet.pdf
<http://www.actisense.com/Downloads/TechTalk/NMEA%200183/The%20NMEA%200183%20Information%20Sheet.pdf>
 

 

This might help.  In my experience, sometimes there are issues with what gets 
labeled "input" vs. "output", as well as data + and
- or ground; but be really careful what you try so you don't damage things.  
Usually it's just as easy as connecting the properly
labeled leads together to get the signal to the proper place -- the problem 
comes in getting the settings right on the send and
receive end, so that everything's happy.


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

 

On Sep 21, 2012, at 10:25 AM, Bill Coleman wrote:





Hello Steve,

This tech was pretty sharp, he was not reading from the manual - it is a 2003, 
so I believe him when he says it is 1.5

There also is no mention at all of versions, let alone Baud rates, , he said it 
was 4800, period. The only thing I can adjust in
the setup is turning sentences on and off, and the seatalk bridge.

I have tried connecting them, no response.  The sentences are coming in, the 
voltage rolls up and down.  I think there must be
something different in the protocol between 1.5 and 2.  The Standard Horizon 
manual definitely says it will only work  with ver.
2.0 and up. I have bridged NMEA to Seatalk as that is how the Autopilot 
communicates, but I don't think this would be a problem,
that just introduces other info such as the compass and converts to NMEA, I 
think.

A talk with a Standard Horizon Tech produced nothing, oddly enough he didn't 
seem to know much about NEMA conversions.

Waiting to hear back from Brookhouse.

 

<>___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Baha earthquake? & Miriam

[Steve Thomas]

 He was dealing with rain from Hurricane Miriam (just now down graded to a 
tropical storm) over night. The full force has not hit
yet but he may not have even noticed an earthquake on the boat. It will be 
interesting to hear his comments.

Steve Thomas
C&C27 MKIII
Port Stanley, ON

-Original Message-
From: cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]On Behalf Of Lee Youngblood
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 2:23 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Baha earthquake?



So Wally and folks down there, did you feel a 6+ earthquake North of La Paz?
Let us know how you are doing. . .

--

___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com


___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com