Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
I have two group 27 AGM's on my boat. One is the house, and one is for starting. AGM's have lower internal resistance than flooded batteries, which mean they accept a charge more easily, and they also can provide the extra current for starting without breaking a sweat. They have thin plates, but unlike a flooded battery, they are completely supported by the glass mat between them. That makes them immune to the vibration that can kill flooded batteries including deep cycle versions. They are also immune to the instant onset of sulfation when dropping water levels expose the plates in flooded batteries to air. I am on a mooring and the batteries are always charged to 100% with just the use of a 20 watt solar panel and a Genasun MPPT controller. My only other charging source is the alternator in my Yamaha outboard. The same setup with flooded batteries had trouble reaching full charge. I do not find charging them at all tricky. They have different needs than other types, but it really is not at all complicated to provide what pleases them. Bill Bina On 2/27/2015 11:00 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List wrote: AGMs on a mooring (or dock without shore power) without solar (or some other way of topping up the batteries) will, quite likely, kill the batteries very quickly (I managed to murder one in a year). Marek *From:* Joel Aronson via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Sent:* Friday, February 27, 2015 10:31 AM *To:* Joe Della Barba mailto:j...@dellabarba.com ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? If you do use AGMs, you need to keep them charged. A mooring without a solar panel is not going to go well. Joel On Friday, February 27, 2015, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: As I said before, I am not an AGM fan. If you do decide to use them, Sams Club has group 31 deep cycle AGMs with the Energizer brand label. They are Deka batteries, exact same as West Marine sells, for about 50% of the price. Think they charge around $160 for them. The Sears Diehard Platinum grp 31 AGM is a relabeled Odyssey thin plate AGM for about half the price. Joe Della Barba javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','j...@dellabarba.com'); -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
As I said before, I am not an AGM fan. If you do decide to use them, Sams Club has group 31 deep cycle AGMs with the Energizer brand label. They are Deka batteries, exact same as West Marine sells, for about 50% of the price. Think they charge around $160 for them. The Sears Diehard Platinum grp 31 AGM is a relabeled Odyssey thin plate AGM for about half the price. Joe Della Barba j...@dellabarba.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
If you do use AGMs, you need to keep them charged. A mooring without a solar panel is not going to go well. Joel On Friday, February 27, 2015, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: As I said before, I am not an AGM fan. If you do decide to use them, Sams Club has group 31 deep cycle AGMs with the Energizer brand label. They are Deka batteries, exact same as West Marine sells, for about 50% of the price. Think they charge around $160 for them. The Sears Diehard Platinum grp 31 AGM is a relabeled Odyssey thin plate AGM for about half the price. Joe Della Barba j...@dellabarba.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','j...@dellabarba.com'); -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
AGMs on a mooring (or dock without shore power) without solar (or some other way of topping up the batteries) will, quite likely, kill the batteries very quickly (I managed to murder one in a year). Marek From: Joel Aronson via CnC-List Sent: Friday, February 27, 2015 10:31 AM To: Joe Della Barba ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? If you do use AGMs, you need to keep them charged. A mooring without a solar panel is not going to go well. Joel On Friday, February 27, 2015, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: As I said before, I am not an AGM fan. If you do decide to use them, Sams Club has group 31 deep cycle AGMs with the Energizer brand label. They are Deka batteries, exact same as West Marine sells, for about 50% of the price. Think they charge around $160 for them. The Sears Diehard Platinum grp 31 AGM is a relabeled Odyssey thin plate AGM for about half the price. Joe Della Barba javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','j...@dellabarba.com'); -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
finicking things; those AGM's and they cost more so I am not inclined to go that way Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 12:33 PM, Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I have two group 27 AGM's on my boat. One is the house, and one is for starting. AGM's have lower internal resistance than flooded batteries, which mean they accept a charge more easily, and they also can provide the extra current for starting without breaking a sweat. They have thin plates, but unlike a flooded battery, they are completely supported by the glass mat between them. That makes them immune to the vibration that can kill flooded batteries including deep cycle versions. They are also immune to the instant onset of sulfation when dropping water levels expose the plates in flooded batteries to air. I am on a mooring and the batteries are always charged to 100% with just the use of a 20 watt solar panel and a Genasun MPPT controller. My only other charging source is the alternator in my Yamaha outboard. The same setup with flooded batteries had trouble reaching full charge. I do not find charging them at all tricky. They have different needs than other types, but it really is not at all complicated to provide what pleases them. Bill Bina On 2/27/2015 11:00 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List wrote: AGMs on a mooring (or dock without shore power) without solar (or some other way of topping up the batteries) will, quite likely, kill the batteries very quickly (I managed to murder one in a year). Marek *From:* Joel Aronson via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Sent:* Friday, February 27, 2015 10:31 AM *To:* Joe Della Barba j...@dellabarba.com ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? If you do use AGMs, you need to keep them charged. A mooring without a solar panel is not going to go well. Joel On Friday, February 27, 2015, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: As I said before, I am not an AGM fan. If you do decide to use them, Sams Club has group 31 deep cycle AGMs with the Energizer brand label. They are Deka batteries, exact same as West Marine sells, for about 50% of the price. Think they charge around $160 for them. The Sears Diehard Platinum grp 31 AGM is a relabeled Odyssey thin plate AGM for about half the price. Joe Della Barba javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','j...@dellabarba.com'); -- Joel 301 541 8551 -- ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at:http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
All, Been seeing a lot of write-ups on gassing, tilting, refilling and other concerns to keep me away from flooded batteries. I already have an AGM 12V on board, which I’ll use for my starting battery, and then add 4-6 (depending on space - which, of course, is the final frontier) 6V AGM batteries like these: http://www.atbatt.com/amstron-gc2-6v-agm-deep-cycle-battery.asp?utm_content=Amstron-AP-GC2utm_term=AP-GC2utm_category=Sealed-Lead-Acidgclid=CLy95KfH_cMCFXBp7Aod2WkA2g http://www.atbatt.com/amstron-gc2-6v-agm-deep-cycle-battery.asp?utm_content=Amstron-AP-GC2utm_term=AP-GC2utm_category=Sealed-Lead-Acidgclid=CLy95KfH_cMCFXBp7Aod2WkA2g Thanks to all for the links and advice. Truly a great list. All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ On Feb 26, 2015, at 10:37 AM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Dwight, I think the theory is that the same electroisys that is breaking the molecular bond in the water is breaking the bonds in the sufuric acid resulting in corrosive sulfer gas. Josh On Feb 26, 2015 7:49 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Jake Not sure you can attribute that corrosion to off-gassing from your batteries...what gases do you think cause this corrosion? Off gassing from batteries under charging conditions usually means hydrogen gas... Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net mailto:d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 7:51 AM, Jake Brodersen via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Edd, I prefer AGM. No noxious gases to be vented into the cabin. I have a lot of corrosion on my electrical panel that I directly attribute to being bathed in off-gassing from old batteries. Plus, they’re safer from an explosion perspective, as well as if you ever end up inverted for a short period of time. Jake Jake Brodersen “Midnight Mistress” CC 35 Mk-III Hampton VA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Edd Schillay via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 11:17 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Listers, As you know, I’m redoing the electrical systems on the Enterprise (thanks to all for diagrams and advice). So now comes the question of what type of battery to use in my house bank — Flooded, Sealed or AGM? What do you have on your CC and why do you prefer it? And, if you have flooded, how often do you top them off with distilled water? The countdown has begun! http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/2015/02/launch-of-enterprise-countdown.html http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/2015/02/launch-of-enterprise-countdown.html All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
Dwight, I think the theory is that the same electroisys that is breaking the molecular bond in the water is breaking the bonds in the sufuric acid resulting in corrosive sulfer gas. Josh On Feb 26, 2015 7:49 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Jake Not sure you can attribute that corrosion to off-gassing from your batteries...what gases do you think cause this corrosion? Off gassing from batteries under charging conditions usually means hydrogen gas... Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 7:51 AM, Jake Brodersen via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Edd, I prefer AGM. No noxious gases to be vented into the cabin. I have a lot of corrosion on my electrical panel that I directly attribute to being bathed in off-gassing from old batteries. Plus, they're safer from an explosion perspective, as well as if you ever end up inverted for a short period of time. Jake *Jake Brodersen* *Midnight Mistress* *CC 35 Mk-III* *Hampton VA* *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Edd Schillay via CnC-List *Sent:* Wednesday, February 25, 2015 11:17 AM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Listers, As you know, I'm redoing the electrical systems on the Enterprise (thanks to all for diagrams and advice). So now comes the question of what type of battery to use in my house bank -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? What do you have on your CC and why do you prefer it? And, if you have flooded, how often do you top them off with distilled water? The countdown has begun! http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/2015/02/launch-of-enterprise-countdown.html All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
Wet cells definitely can emit corrosive acid fumes. My wife's car battery does this, it gets the nasty sulfur-metal-acid crystals all over the battery connections. I solved that by spraying them with engine fogging oil. You have some form-factor issues with wet vs. gel/AGM. A wet cell needs to be in a battery container that can hold spilled acid. A gel/AGM cannot leak and you could even cut it in half and use the half that still had the terminals. The 35 MK I can fit a 4D into the battery space, but not a 4D in a container, so if you want to go that way a wet battery is out. We once did have a wet battery not in a case and it cracked in half during a hurricane and leaked acid into the bilge. That was not a nice smell - sulfur and chlorine gas :( Speaking of battery size, golf cart is not always a wet cell. You can get them in gel and AGM too. Two golf carts are a LOT easier to move around than one 8D and the AHs are about the same. You also can fit 3 group 24s in an 8D case. Joe Della Barba j...@dellabarba.com mailto:j...@dellabarba.com Coquina From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 10:38 AM To: CC List; dwight Subject: Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Dwight, I think the theory is that the same electroisys that is breaking the molecular bond in the water is breaking the bonds in the sufuric acid resulting in corrosive sulfer gas. Josh On Feb 26, 2015 7:49 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Jake Not sure you can attribute that corrosion to off-gassing from your batteries...what gases do you think cause this corrosion? Off gassing from batteries under charging conditions usually means hydrogen gas... Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net mailto:d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 7:51 AM, Jake Brodersen via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Edd, I prefer AGM. No noxious gases to be vented into the cabin. I have a lot of corrosion on my electrical panel that I directly attribute to being bathed in off-gassing from old batteries. Plus, they're safer from an explosion perspective, as well as if you ever end up inverted for a short period of time. Jake Jake Brodersen Midnight Mistress CC 35 Mk-III Hampton VA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com ] On Behalf Of Edd Schillay via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 11:17 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Listers, As you know, I'm redoing the electrical systems on the Enterprise (thanks to all for diagrams and advice). So now comes the question of what type of battery to use in my house bank - Flooded, Sealed or AGM? What do you have on your CC and why do you prefer it? And, if you have flooded, how often do you top them off with distilled water? The countdown has begun! http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/2015/02/launch-of-enterprise-countdown.html All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
I use much the same procedure that Robert described with my wet cell Great Northern batteries (2 six V golf cart and 1 group 24, all deep cycle, group 24 used mostly for starting and backup)...in fact Robert may have started using this procedure after discussing with me...my batteries have remained onboard ever since I got them about 9 years ago...one other inportant issue though is to check electrolyte level in fall before that winterizing charge...if it's low and especially if you can see that any plates are not covered with electrolyte then replenish with distilled water before applying the charge...and another guideline that I find useful as an indicator is that if in spring after having done absolutely nothing to the batteries all winter long, a battery has not held most of its charge then it is likely time to get a new battery...the voltages that Robert reported measuring in his batteries just lately are characteristic of good lead acid batteries and about what I would expect to see in my batteries come spring, maybe a bit lower to around 12.4 but not much if the battery is good. Such batteries have started my little M4-30 diesel each spring without further charging but I will apply a 24 hour slow charge to each before launch. I do not have shore power so the only charging my batteries see during the sailing season comes from my alternator...after 9 years on these batteries no problems yet...I still have incandescent lights throughout and I run an Adler barbour refrigerator while cruising but not continuously...I also add ice to my ice box when it is available and we start all cruises with frozen fresh drinking water in the ice box and frozen meets as well. Works good for us in August here in Nova Scotia. Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 12:56 PM, robert via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Edd: We have two Great Northern Group 27 wet cell batteries that are left on board all winter.these two batteries get a full charge late in the Fall and sometimes a short charge (one hour) at 6 amps during the winter and that's it. They have seen 6 sailing seasons, have spent every winter on board, and last week I went to check the boat, mostly for the build up snow and ice on the shrinkwrap, my volt meter said one battery was 12.59V the second was 12.57V. My point is, if fully charged in the Fall, there is very little, if any, winter maintenance involved. A side story.got on a step ladder to board my boat last week.didn't realize there was 2 inches of solid ice lying on the white shrinkwrap directly above me.when this approx. 3' x 3' piece of solid ice started to slide towards me, I got my head and shoulders in the gate/companionway just in time before it decapitated me and/or removed all my front teeth. Lesson learned... won't do that again, he says! Rob Abbott AZURA CC32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. On 2015-02-25 12:30 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List wrote: I do want to go with 4-6 golf carts. How often do you need to add water to them? A problem I have is the ability to get to the boat to maintain them during the winter months. All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ On Feb 25, 2015, at 11:27 AM, Joe Della Barba j...@dellabarba.com wrote: Quick answer: gel is best and wet cells - golf carts - are by FAR the best for $$$ per amp hour. I do not care for AGM Sent from my iPhone On Feb 25, 2015, at 11:17, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Listers, As you know, I’m redoing the electrical systems on the Enterprise (thanks to all for diagrams and advice). So now comes the question of what type of battery to use in my house bank — Flooded, Sealed or AGM? What do you have on your CC and why do you prefer it? And, if you have flooded, how often do you top them off with distilled water? The countdown has begun! http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/2015/02/launch-of-enterprise-countdown.html All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at:http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
The one I got is a Renogy 50W mono crystalline : http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DVPPFDS/ref=pe_385040_30332200_pe_309540_26725410_item And the 10’ extension that I wired to a Blue Sea plug: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DGXGKWA/ref=pe_385040_30332200_pe_309540_26725410_item On Feb 25, 2015, at 5:03 PM, David via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: May I ask which unit? David F. Risch (401) 419-4650 (cell) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:58:45 -0500 To: efran...@mac.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com I installed a 50W solar panel last summer to keep batteries topped off at the mooring. I bought one sized to fit the sliding companionway hatch. I ran the wires to a 12v outlet plug near the start panel and from there to a charge controller mounted in the lazarette. I leave it just sitting on the hatch when gone and unplug it and throw it on the rear mattress when I get to the boat. It is heavy enough that it is not going anywhere short of a serious gale, but light enough that it is easy to move around. It worked great last season and well worth the time investment to get the wiring installed. Dave On Feb 25, 2015, at 3:36 PM, Eric Frank via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Ed, But it takes only a small panel to provide adequate current to keep them topped off. You will need your alternator when using the batteries for cruising, of course, but sitting on the mooring, even 0.5 - 1 amp is sufficient. That's all I use on Cat's Paw (kept on a mooring); I have a small solar panel on the forward hatch. Even with a small panel, though, I recommend a simple charge regulator to stop the charging when the batteries are topped up. Eric Frank Cat's Paw, CC 35 Mk II One thing to keep in mind is wet cells can lose up to 10% of charge per month and gels only lose around 1%. For a boat on a mooring or otherwise off shore power this can be a factor. If you go wet cells on a mooring you will want a solar panel to keep them topped off. Joe Della Barba Coquina CC 35 MK I ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT pastedGraphic.tiff ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
Jake Not sure you can attribute that corrosion to off-gassing from your batteries...what gases do you think cause this corrosion? Off gassing from batteries under charging conditions usually means hydrogen gas... Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 7:51 AM, Jake Brodersen via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Edd, I prefer AGM. No noxious gases to be vented into the cabin. I have a lot of corrosion on my electrical panel that I directly attribute to being bathed in off-gassing from old batteries. Plus, they’re safer from an explosion perspective, as well as if you ever end up inverted for a short period of time. Jake *Jake Brodersen* *“Midnight Mistress”* *CC 35 Mk-III* *Hampton VA* *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Edd Schillay via CnC-List *Sent:* Wednesday, February 25, 2015 11:17 AM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Listers, As you know, I’m redoing the electrical systems on the Enterprise (thanks to all for diagrams and advice). So now comes the question of what type of battery to use in my house bank — Flooded, Sealed or AGM? What do you have on your CC and why do you prefer it? And, if you have flooded, how often do you top them off with distilled water? The countdown has begun! http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/2015/02/launch-of-enterprise-countdown.html All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
Edd, I prefer AGM. No noxious gases to be vented into the cabin. I have a lot of corrosion on my electrical panel that I directly attribute to being bathed in off-gassing from old batteries. Plus, they’re safer from an explosion perspective, as well as if you ever end up inverted for a short period of time. Jake Jake Brodersen “Midnight Mistress” CC 35 Mk-III Hampton VA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Edd Schillay via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 11:17 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Listers, As you know, I’m redoing the electrical systems on the Enterprise (thanks to all for diagrams and advice). So now comes the question of what type of battery to use in my house bank — Flooded, Sealed or AGM? What do you have on your CC and why do you prefer it? And, if you have flooded, how often do you top them off with distilled water? The countdown has begun! http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/2015/02/launch-of-enterprise-countdown.html All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
Edd; Like several others, I would endorse the choice of going with golf cart batteries (I'd use GC5s, not GC2s, but I'd have flooded golf cart batteries in my boats if there was enough room in the locker that the batteries are housed in to accommodate the height of the batteries. You have raised the question of the batteries freezing. A fully charged wet cell battery has a freezing temperature of 76 degrees below zero Fahrenheit. It is true that the liquid in a flooded battery that is fully discharged is around 30 degrees, since the liquid is almost 100% distilled water. But I don't think I've ever seen a frozen battery - even is a winter stint at the GM Arctic Proving Grounds years ago. Unless New Jersey is expecting an Ice Age, I wouldn't worry. Storage on the boat over the winter is also not a real problem - although there are a lot of old wives' tales about taking batteries home for storage and not setting them on concrete floors, and so forth. The accepted self-discharge rate for a lead-acid battery is between 1.5 and 3% per month, depending on storage conditions. The rate gets higher as the storage temperature gets higher, but isn't really very high until you get over 100 degrees. AGM batteries are a bit less, but the chemistry is almost the same and the lower rate for an AGM battery has more to do with the fact that the AGM has less plate surface area in contact with the electrolyte mat, so the reaction is slower. You may want to think about how you use your boat when you make the decision about batteries. You mention wanting 4 to 6 T-105 batteries in your house bank. That's 450 to 675 AH in a 12 volt configuration, and that gives you a lot of live aboard time. My 460 AH house bank will power my 38 for 2 to 3 days on the hook without recharging. (My biggest draw is for refrigeration and that is more than half of the total.) But if I recall you mostly daysail and race, so what impact will 400 pounds of batteries have on trim and performance? Do you need that much endurance? Also, you say you only charge with your engine alternator. A 675 AH bank is going to need a 75 amp (or more) alternator and a smart voltage regulator to recharge it in any manageable amount of time, and at least a 60 amp charger if you plug into shore power. I have many years of experience in the marketing of batteries for industrial vehicle, and I have an aversion to AGM batteries, so I'd recommend not using them. YMMV. Sure, you can lay them on their side. But laying your sailboat on its side is slow, and flooded batteries - particularly the maintenance free versions - don't generally leak liquid at normal angles of heel for reasonable lengths of time. AGM batteries are more demanding about proper charging voltages (the regulator in your boat is almost certainly designed for flooded cells, not AGMs, and will need to be replaced) and less forgiving about being stored when partially discharged than flooded cells. And AGM batteries have a significantly shorter service life - in terms of charge/discharge cycles - than do flooded batteries. Plus they are a lot more expensive. I looked at the AGM batteries in your post. Trojan T125s from the same supplier would have 15% more capacity and cost 15% less than the AGM. Two Exide or Interstate 27 deep cycle batteries in parallel would have the same capacity as two of these AGM GC2s wired in series and cost about half as much. These particular AGM batteries don't look like a particularly good value to me. Good luck making your decision Rick Brass From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Edd Schillay via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 12:16 PM To: CC List Subject: Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Josh, I'm leaning towards 4 to 6 (depending on the space available) Trojan T-105s, but am concerned about the maintenance, especially since I'm kinda cut off from the boat all winter long. Alternatively, I was looking at these AGMs: http://www.atbatt.com/amstron-gc2-6v-agm-deep-cycle-battery.asp?utm_content= Amstron-AP-GC2 http://www.atbatt.com/amstron-gc2-6v-agm-deep-cycle-battery.asp?utm_content =Amstron-AP-GC2utm_term=AP-GC2utm_category=Sealed-Lead-Acidgclid=CLy95KfH _cMCFXBp7Aod2WkA2g utm_term=AP-GC2utm_category=Sealed-Lead-Acidgclid=CLy95KfH_cMCFXBp7Aod2Wk A2g, but won't bother if AGMs are only going to last a few years. My charging system is the alternator, since the Enterprise lives on a mooring during the season (yes - we call that standard orbit). I only hook up to shore power a few times a year when cruising. The new system will connect the alternator to the house bank and use a Blue Seas ACR (https://www.bluesea.com/products/7610/SI-ACR_Automatic_Charging_Relay_-_12_ 24V_DC_120A) to also charge the starting battery. That means I'll have a New-In-Box Echo Charger to sell this Spring. All the best
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
Josh; The off gassing from a battery is primarily: 1) Water vapor as the water evaporates with heat. This happens even when not charging (to a very small degree) on days when the relative humidity in the air is low. But then low relative humidity is a pretty rare event in the air around a boat that is in the water. In most flooded batteries this water vapor is condensed in the caps and drips back into the cells. 2) Hydrogen gas that is released when the SO4 part of the sulfuric acid bonds to the lead plates as a result of high temperatures while charging or as the plates sulfate during longer periods of storage. 3) Hydrogen and oxygen gas from electrolysis at higher charge rates. Electrolysis isn't usually much of a factor at normal charge rates. Rick Brass From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 10:38 AM To: CC List; dwight Subject: Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Dwight, I think the theory is that the same electroisys that is breaking the molecular bond in the water is breaking the bonds in the sufuric acid resulting in corrosive sulfer gas. Josh On Feb 26, 2015 7:49 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Jake Not sure you can attribute that corrosion to off-gassing from your batteries...what gases do you think cause this corrosion? Off gassing from batteries under charging conditions usually means hydrogen gas... Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net mailto:d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 7:51 AM, Jake Brodersen via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Edd, I prefer AGM. No noxious gases to be vented into the cabin. I have a lot of corrosion on my electrical panel that I directly attribute to being bathed in off-gassing from old batteries. Plus, they're safer from an explosion perspective, as well as if you ever end up inverted for a short period of time. Jake Jake Brodersen Midnight Mistress CC 35 Mk-III Hampton VA From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com ] On Behalf Of Edd Schillay via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 11:17 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Listers, As you know, I'm redoing the electrical systems on the Enterprise (thanks to all for diagrams and advice). So now comes the question of what type of battery to use in my house bank - Flooded, Sealed or AGM? What do you have on your CC and why do you prefer it? And, if you have flooded, how often do you top them off with distilled water? The countdown has begun! http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/2015/02/launch-of-enterprise-countdown.html All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
agree with that Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 8:18 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Edd; Like several others, I would endorse the choice of going with golf cart batteries (I’d use GC5s, not GC2s, but I’d have flooded golf cart batteries in my boats if there was enough room in the locker that the batteries are housed in to accommodate the height of the batteries. You have raised the question of the batteries freezing. A fully charged wet cell battery has a freezing temperature of 76 degrees below zero Fahrenheit. It is true that the liquid in a flooded battery that is fully discharged is around 30 degrees, since the liquid is almost 100% distilled water. But I don’t think I’ve ever seen a frozen battery – even is a winter stint at the GM Arctic Proving Grounds years ago. Unless New Jersey is expecting an Ice Age, I wouldn’t worry. Storage on the boat over the winter is also not a real problem – although there are a lot of old wives’ tales about taking batteries home for storage and not setting them on concrete floors, and so forth. The accepted self-discharge rate for a lead-acid battery is between 1.5 and 3% per month, depending on storage conditions. The rate gets higher as the storage temperature gets higher, but isn’t really very high until you get over 100 degrees. AGM batteries are a bit less, but the chemistry is almost the same and the lower rate for an AGM battery has more to do with the fact that the AGM has less plate surface area in contact with the electrolyte mat, so the reaction is slower. You may want to think about how you use your boat when you make the decision about batteries. You mention wanting 4 to 6 T-105 batteries in your house bank. That’s 450 to 675 AH in a 12 volt configuration, and that gives you a lot of live aboard time. My 460 AH house bank will power my 38 for 2 to 3 days on the hook without recharging. (My biggest draw is for refrigeration and that is more than half of the total.) But if I recall you mostly daysail and race, so what impact will 400 pounds of batteries have on trim and performance? Do you need that much endurance? Also, you say you only charge with your engine alternator. A 675 AH bank is going to need a 75 amp (or more) alternator and a smart voltage regulator to recharge it in any manageable amount of time, and at least a 60 amp charger if you plug into shore power. I have many years of experience in the marketing of batteries for industrial vehicle, and I have an aversion to AGM batteries, so I’d recommend not using them. YMMV. Sure, you can lay them on their side. But laying your sailboat on its side is slow, and flooded batteries – particularly the maintenance free versions – don’t generally leak liquid at normal angles of heel for reasonable lengths of time. AGM batteries are more demanding about proper charging voltages (the regulator in your boat is almost certainly designed for flooded cells, not AGMs, and will need to be replaced) and less forgiving about being stored when partially discharged than flooded cells. And AGM batteries have a significantly shorter service life – in terms of charge/discharge cycles – than do flooded batteries. Plus they are a lot more expensive. I looked at the AGM batteries in your post. Trojan T125s from the same supplier would have 15% more capacity and cost 15% less than the AGM. Two Exide or Interstate 27 deep cycle batteries in parallel would have the same capacity as two of these AGM GC2s wired in series and cost about half as much. These particular AGM batteries don’t look like a particularly good value to me. Good luck making your decision Rick Brass *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Edd Schillay via CnC-List *Sent:* Wednesday, February 25, 2015 12:16 PM *To:* CC List *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Josh, I’m leaning towards 4 to 6 (depending on the space available) Trojan T-105s, but am concerned about the maintenance, especially since I’m kinda cut off from the boat all winter long. Alternatively, I was looking at these AGMs: http://www.atbatt.com/amstron-gc2-6v-agm-deep-cycle-battery.asp?utm_content=Amstron-AP-GC2utm_term=AP-GC2utm_category=Sealed-Lead-Acidgclid=CLy95KfH_cMCFXBp7Aod2WkA2g, but won’t bother if AGMs are only going to last a few years. My charging system is the alternator, since the Enterprise lives on a mooring during the season (yes — we call that standard orbit). I only hook up to shore power a few times a year when cruising. The new system will connect the alternator to the house bank and use a Blue Seas ACR ( https://www.bluesea.com/products/7610/SI-ACR_Automatic_Charging_Relay_-_12_24V_DC_120A) to also charge the starting battery. That means I'll have a New
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
nothing much corrosive in those off gases... maybe something else could be causing the corrosion Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 8:43 PM, Rick Brass via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Josh; The off gassing from a battery is primarily: 1) Water vapor as the water evaporates with heat. This happens even when not charging (to a very small degree) on days when the relative humidity in the air is low. But then low relative humidity is a pretty rare event in the air around a boat that is in the water. In most flooded batteries this water vapor is condensed in the caps and drips back into the cells. 2) Hydrogen gas that is released when the SO4 part of the sulfuric acid bonds to the lead plates as a result of high temperatures while charging or as the plates sulfate during longer periods of storage. 3) Hydrogen and oxygen gas from electrolysis at higher charge rates. Electrolysis isn’t usually much of a factor at normal charge rates. Rick Brass *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Muckley via CnC-List *Sent:* Thursday, February 26, 2015 10:38 AM *To:* CC List; dwight *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Dwight, I think the theory is that the same electroisys that is breaking the molecular bond in the water is breaking the bonds in the sufuric acid resulting in corrosive sulfer gas. Josh On Feb 26, 2015 7:49 AM, dwight veinot via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Jake Not sure you can attribute that corrosion to off-gassing from your batteries...what gases do you think cause this corrosion? Off gassing from batteries under charging conditions usually means hydrogen gas... Dwight Veinot CC 35 MKII, *Alianna* Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS d.ve...@bellaliant.net On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 7:51 AM, Jake Brodersen via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Edd, I prefer AGM. No noxious gases to be vented into the cabin. I have a lot of corrosion on my electrical panel that I directly attribute to being bathed in off-gassing from old batteries. Plus, they’re safer from an explosion perspective, as well as if you ever end up inverted for a short period of time. Jake *Jake Brodersen* *“Midnight Mistress”* *CC 35 Mk-III* *Hampton VA* *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Edd Schillay via CnC-List *Sent:* Wednesday, February 25, 2015 11:17 AM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Listers, As you know, I’m redoing the electrical systems on the Enterprise (thanks to all for diagrams and advice). So now comes the question of what type of battery to use in my house bank — Flooded, Sealed or AGM? What do you have on your CC and why do you prefer it? And, if you have flooded, how often do you top them off with distilled water? The countdown has begun! http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/2015/02/launch-of-enterprise-countdown.html All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
I use Delco Voyager maintenance free wet cells, Series 29's. Get 5-7+ years service life. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Listers, As you know, I’m redoing the electrical systems on the Enterprise (thanks to all for diagrams and advice). So now comes the question of what type of battery to use in my house bank — Flooded, Sealed or AGM? What do you have on your CC and why do you prefer it? And, if you have flooded, how often do you top them off with distilled water? The countdown has begun! http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/2015/02/launch-of-enterprise-countdown.html All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
Quick answer: gel is best and wet cells - golf carts - are by FAR the best for $$$ per amp hour. I do not care for AGM Sent from my iPhone On Feb 25, 2015, at 11:17, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Listers, As you know, I’m redoing the electrical systems on the Enterprise (thanks to all for diagrams and advice). So now comes the question of what type of battery to use in my house bank — Flooded, Sealed or AGM? What do you have on your CC and why do you prefer it? And, if you have flooded, how often do you top them off with distilled water? The countdown has begun! http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/2015/02/launch-of-enterprise-countdown.html All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
Edd: We have two Great Northern Group 27 wet cell batteries that are left on board all winter.these two batteries get a full charge late in the Fall and sometimes a short charge (one hour) at 6 amps during the winter and that's it. They have seen 6 sailing seasons, have spent every winter on board, and last week I went to check the boat, mostly for the build up snow and ice on the shrinkwrap, my volt meter said one battery was 12.59V the second was 12.57V. My point is, if fully charged in the Fall, there is very little, if any, winter maintenance involved. A side story.got on a step ladder to board my boat last week.didn't realize there was 2 inches of solid ice lying on the white shrinkwrap directly above me.when this approx. 3' x 3' piece of solid ice started to slide towards me, I got my head and shoulders in the gate/companionway just in time before it decapitated me and/or removed all my front teeth. Lesson learned... won't do that again, he says! Rob Abbott AZURA CC32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. On 2015-02-25 12:30 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List wrote: I do want to go with 4-6 golf carts. How often do you need to add water to them? A problem I have is the ability to get to the boat to maintain them during the winter months. All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ On Feb 25, 2015, at 11:27 AM, Joe Della Barba j...@dellabarba.com mailto:j...@dellabarba.com wrote: Quick answer: gel is best and wet cells - golf carts - are by FAR the best for $$$ per amp hour. I do not care for AGM Sent from my iPhone On Feb 25, 2015, at 11:17, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Listers, As you know, I’m redoing the electrical systems on the Enterprise (thanks to all for diagrams and advice). So now comes the question of what type of battery to use in my house bank — Flooded, Sealed or AGM? What do you have on your CC and why do you prefer it? And, if you have flooded, how often do you top them off with distilled water? The countdown has begun! http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/2015/02/launch-of-enterprise-countdown.html All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
I do want to go with 4-6 golf carts. How often do you need to add water to them? A problem I have is the ability to get to the boat to maintain them during the winter months. All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ On Feb 25, 2015, at 11:27 AM, Joe Della Barba j...@dellabarba.com wrote: Quick answer: gel is best and wet cells - golf carts - are by FAR the best for $$$ per amp hour. I do not care for AGM Sent from my iPhone On Feb 25, 2015, at 11:17, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Listers, As you know, I’m redoing the electrical systems on the Enterprise (thanks to all for diagrams and advice). So now comes the question of what type of battery to use in my house bank — Flooded, Sealed or AGM? What do you have on your CC and why do you prefer it? And, if you have flooded, how often do you top them off with distilled water? The countdown has begun! http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/2015/02/launch-of-enterprise-countdown.html http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/2015/02/launch-of-enterprise-countdown.html All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
I was at a point of extremes when I bought 5 AutoZone marine/deep cycle for a total of about $600 and 500Ahrs (~250Ahrs usable without damage). They are the standard maintenance free auto style which can be but are not intended to be watered. For me they were relatively cheap, readily available, easy to claim warranty, light enough to move/install/uninstall. They are also the easiest to charge and discharge since it is such a long standing standard. There are certainly advantages to other technologies and disadvantages to wet cells but for now this solution has met my needs very comfortably. T-105 golf cart batteries would really be my only other concideration but availability, movability, and warranty claimability are hold backs. You also have to consider the charging system when choosing batteries. I have a 100amp balmer alternator with external charge controller and a ProMariner P Nautic 60-12 charger/maintainer. There are disadvantages to staying on shore power 24/7 but it is working for me right now. Maybe I'll change that practice in the future. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Feb 25, 2015 11:17 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Listers, As you know, I'm redoing the electrical systems on the Enterprise (thanks to all for diagrams and advice). So now comes the question of what type of battery to use in my house bank -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? What do you have on your CC and why do you prefer it? And, if you have flooded, how often do you top them off with distilled water? The countdown has begun! http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/2015/02/launch-of-enterprise-countdown.html All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
Edd — +1 on golf cart batteries, specifically the Trojan T105. If your charging system is set up and controlled properly, you shouldn’t have to top them off very often at all. I’ve had a set in my boat for over five years now with no issues, and no apparent drop in capacity. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 25, 2015, at 10:30 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: I do want to go with 4-6 golf carts. How often do you need to add water to them? A problem I have is the ability to get to the boat to maintain them during the winter months. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
Josh, I’m leaning towards 4 to 6 (depending on the space available) Trojan T-105s, but am concerned about the maintenance, especially since I’m kinda cut off from the boat all winter long. Alternatively, I was looking at these AGMs: http://www.atbatt.com/amstron-gc2-6v-agm-deep-cycle-battery.asp?utm_content=Amstron-AP-GC2utm_term=AP-GC2utm_category=Sealed-Lead-Acidgclid=CLy95KfH_cMCFXBp7Aod2WkA2g http://www.atbatt.com/amstron-gc2-6v-agm-deep-cycle-battery.asp?utm_content=Amstron-AP-GC2utm_term=AP-GC2utm_category=Sealed-Lead-Acidgclid=CLy95KfH_cMCFXBp7Aod2WkA2g, but won’t bother if AGMs are only going to last a few years. My charging system is the alternator, since the Enterprise lives on a mooring during the season (yes — we call that standard orbit). I only hook up to shore power a few times a year when cruising. The new system will connect the alternator to the house bank and use a Blue Seas ACR (https://www.bluesea.com/products/7610/SI-ACR_Automatic_Charging_Relay_-_12_24V_DC_120A https://www.bluesea.com/products/7610/SI-ACR_Automatic_Charging_Relay_-_12_24V_DC_120A) to also charge the starting battery. That means I'll have a New-In-Box Echo Charger to sell this Spring. All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ On Feb 25, 2015, at 11:53 AM, Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com wrote: I was at a point of extremes when I bought 5 AutoZone marine/deep cycle for a total of about $600 and 500Ahrs (~250Ahrs usable without damage). They are the standard maintenance free auto style which can be but are not intended to be watered. For me they were relatively cheap, readily available, easy to claim warranty, light enough to move/install/uninstall. They are also the easiest to charge and discharge since it is such a long standing standard. There are certainly advantages to other technologies and disadvantages to wet cells but for now this solution has met my needs very comfortably. T-105 golf cart batteries would really be my only other concideration but availability, movability, and warranty claimability are hold backs. You also have to consider the charging system when choosing batteries. I have a 100amp balmer alternator with external charge controller and a ProMariner P Nautic 60-12 charger/maintainer. There are disadvantages to staying on shore power 24/7 but it is working for me right now. Maybe I'll change that practice in the future. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Feb 25, 2015 11:17 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Listers, As you know, I’m redoing the electrical systems on the Enterprise (thanks to all for diagrams and advice). So now comes the question of what type of battery to use in my house bank — Flooded, Sealed or AGM? What do you have on your CC and why do you prefer it? And, if you have flooded, how often do you top them off with distilled water? The countdown has begun! http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/2015/02/launch-of-enterprise-countdown.html http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/2015/02/launch-of-enterprise-countdown.html All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
- Original Message - From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 10:17 AM Subject: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Listers, As you know, I’m redoing the electrical systems on the Enterprise (thanks to all for diagrams and advice). So now comes the question of what type of battery to use in my house bank — Flooded, Sealed or AGM? What do you have on your CC and why do you prefer it? And, if you have flooded, how often do you top them off with distilled water? The countdown has begun! http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/2015/02/launch-of-enterprise-countdown.html All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log -- ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
Ed, local boat mechanic recommended and I have 4 Exide Orbital AGM's on a house bank wired in series and additional one for the engine. Have had for almost 3 years and no problems. Hope that helps. Lloyd Lippe Finesse LF39 Rockport, Texas - Original Message - From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 10:17 AM Subject: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Listers, As you know, I’m redoing the electrical systems on the Enterprise (thanks to all for diagrams and advice). So now comes the question of what type of battery to use in my house bank — Flooded, Sealed or AGM? What do you have on your CC and why do you prefer it? And, if you have flooded, how often do you top them off with distilled water? The countdown has begun! http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/2015/02/launch-of-enterprise-countdown.html All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log -- ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
Edd, I am not claiming to be an expert, but from what I have read so far, the AGMs might be a costly solution to a somewhat non-existing problem. Check Main Sail’s write ups on batteries (he did a few additional ones recently). If I understand these things correctly, the best performance per $ you will get from the wet cells (proper marine deep cycle ones). The longest duty cycle – from the golf batteries (the main disadvantage – they are higher than most other batteries, but this is for a reason – there is extra electrolyte over the plates and they don’t get uncovered when the boat heels). The most convenient – gel cells (few disadvantages of AGMs and most of the advantages of wet cells plus they don’t spill, don’t have issues with heeling angle and can be placed safely in the cabin). AGMs would require special care (when charging) and may not last that long. You may find interesting the results of the battery survey Main Sail did recently. Here is the link to his “early results”: http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=168972. Or his take on the flooded deep cycle batteries here: http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/deep_cycle_batterypage=1 Marek From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 12:16 PM To: CC List Subject: Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Josh, I’m leaning towards 4 to 6 (depending on the space available) Trojan T-105s, but am concerned about the maintenance, especially since I’m kinda cut off from the boat all winter long. Alternatively, I was looking at these AGMs: http://www.atbatt.com/amstron-gc2-6v-agm-deep-cycle-battery.asp?utm_content=Amstron-AP-GC2utm_term=AP-GC2utm_category=Sealed-Lead-Acidgclid=CLy95KfH_cMCFXBp7Aod2WkA2g, but won’t bother if AGMs are only going to last a few years. My charging system is the alternator, since the Enterprise lives on a mooring during the season (yes — we call that standard orbit). I only hook up to shore power a few times a year when cruising. The new system will connect the alternator to the house bank and use a Blue Seas ACR (https://www.bluesea.com/products/7610/SI-ACR_Automatic_Charging_Relay_-_12_24V_DC_120A) to also charge the starting battery. That means I'll have a New-In-Box Echo Charger to sell this Spring. All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log On Feb 25, 2015, at 11:53 AM, Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com wrote: I was at a point of extremes when I bought 5 AutoZone marine/deep cycle for a total of about $600 and 500Ahrs (~250Ahrs usable without damage). They are the standard maintenance free auto style which can be but are not intended to be watered. For me they were relatively cheap, readily available, easy to claim warranty, light enough to move/install/uninstall. They are also the easiest to charge and discharge since it is such a long standing standard. There are certainly advantages to other technologies and disadvantages to wet cells but for now this solution has met my needs very comfortably. T-105 golf cart batteries would really be my only other concideration but availability, movability, and warranty claimability are hold backs. You also have to consider the charging system when choosing batteries. I have a 100amp balmer alternator with external charge controller and a ProMariner P Nautic 60-12 charger/maintainer. There are disadvantages to staying on shore power 24/7 but it is working for me right now. Maybe I'll change that practice in the future. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Feb 25, 2015 11:17 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Listers, As you know, I’m redoing the electrical systems on the Enterprise (thanks to all for diagrams and advice). So now comes the question of what type of battery to use in my house bank — Flooded, Sealed or AGM? What do you have on your CC and why do you prefer it? And, if you have flooded, how often do you top them off with distilled water? The countdown has begun! http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/2015/02/launch-of-enterprise-countdown.html All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
I would advise an AGM, maybe as the starting battery and for emergencies, simply in case of a knockdown or other rare event. My background with AGMs is from the computer industry were the are used in Uninterruptible Power Supplies ( UPS ). Overall I was not and still am not impressed. The high quality units are about $80 for a 12V 18 - 20 AH battery. Even in the situations were they are in a perfect temperature controlled and vibration free environment, tended by an exotic and expensive charger they typically only last 5 years and 2 - 3 full uses. The UPS will do a run down test, which can be automated monthly, and a battery test weekly. So only once a week the UPS will kick in and run from battery for a couple of minutes, and once a month it will partially discharge ( configurable 30 - 70% ) the battery and measure the actual AH available. A golden life for a battery I would think, and as a guess about 50% of the UPSes get the battery pack changed around 3 years. Some are still working, but from the monthly run down test have lost too much capacity. Sometimes even with identical batteries bought at the same time and run exactly the same one battery will die. So I end up replacing all of them. I had hoped that with the research and work being done on the larger NiCD packs in hybrid cars that marine NiCD wet cells would become more common. Michael Brown Windburn CC 30-1 ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
I may be new to sailing but not to boats. My last boat had (3) 12V starting batteries and (2) 6V (in series) for the house bank. All deep cycle wet cell varying in age from one to six years. My current boat has only (2) 12V (age unknown) with nothing to charge them but the A-4. I have never experienced any amount of self discharge to the point of concern over any reasonable amount of time. I have always kept them on the boat over the winter and top them off and check fluid level in the beginning of the season. Last year I didn’t even do that and both engines (1970 GMC 427 Mercruisers) cranked over plenty strong after a winter on the boat. (that was right before I sold her and got my CC 33) A agree that the predictions of self-discharging over time have never in my experience come to pass. In response to the concern of spilling acid in a wet cell on a rail-in-the-water-heel, I think they made sealed no maintenance wet cell batteries. They do for uninterruptible power systems (UPSs). Airplanes, too I think. I will have to look into that. The old boat didn’t tip that much. From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ken Heaton via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 2:20 PM To: Della Barba, Joe; cnc-list Subject: Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? wet cells can lose up to 10% of charge per month I've seen various outlandish quotes like that on the internet. They are pure BS. As I understand it, the storage temperature a flooded battery would have to be well in excess of 100 degrees Fahrenheit for this high rate of self discharge to happen. A quote from Maine Sail: I was a total disbeliever at the resting OCV of a flooded battery that has sat 100% uncharged for nearly 9 months. I grabbed my refractometer and performed specific gravity checks on each cell. They all agreed and all agreed with the DVM at the SOC.. So this causes one to wonder why there is all the concern around self discharge I have to assume that nearly 20-30 days of this summer saw the shed temps over 100F. It is uninsulated with a black roof... If we are to believe OCV and SG readings it puts this battery at approx 90% SOC after at least 9 months.. Read the whole article here, it is worth the read: http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/self_discharge Other references: http://www.cieux.com/bm/batteryWreck.html Wet cells can maintain a workable charge for about a year after the last full charge. When cold, wet cells lose power and cannot deliver their rated charge. Instead of waiting a year for the battery to run down, either recharge your wet cell every six months or keep it fully charged all the time by putting a floating charge on it. http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/carfaq16.htm Self-discharge is accelerated by temperature. For batteries that are over 77° F (25° C), the self-discharge rate doubles with a 18° F (10° C) rise in temperature. Thus, sulfation is a huge problem for wet lead-acid batteries not being used, sitting on a dealer's shelf, or in a stored vehicle, especially in HOT temperatures. Ken H. On 25 February 2015 at 14:29, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: One thing to keep in mind is wet cells can lose up to 10% of charge per month and gels only lose around 1%. For a boat on a mooring or otherwise off shore power this can be a factor. If you go wet cells on a mooring you will want a solar panel to keep them topped off. Joe Della Barba Coquina CC 35 MK I From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 12:58 PM To: Edd Schillay; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Edd, I am not claiming to be an expert, but from what I have read so far, the AGMs might be a costly solution to a somewhat non-existing problem. Check Main Sail’s write ups on batteries (he did a few additional ones recently). If I understand these things correctly, the best performance per $ you will get from the wet cells (proper marine deep cycle ones). The longest duty cycle – from the golf batteries (the main disadvantage – they are higher than most other batteries, but this is for a reason – there is extra electrolyte over the plates and they don’t get uncovered when the boat heels). The most convenient – gel cells (few disadvantages of AGMs and most of the advantages of wet cells plus they don’t spill, don’t have issues with heeling angle and can be placed safely in the cabin). AGMs would require special care (when charging) and may not last that long. You may find interesting the results of the battery survey Main Sail did recently. Here is the link to his “early results”: http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=168972. Or his take on the flooded deep cycle batteries here: http://www.pbase.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
wet cells can lose up to 10% of charge per month I've seen various outlandish quotes like that on the internet. They are pure BS. As I understand it, the storage temperature a flooded battery would have to be well in excess of 100 degrees Fahrenheit for this high rate of self discharge to happen. A quote from Maine Sail: I was a total disbeliever at the resting OCV of a flooded battery that has sat 100% uncharged for nearly 9 months. I grabbed my refractometer and performed specific gravity checks on each cell. They all agreed and all agreed with the DVM at the SOC.. So this causes one to wonder why there is all the concern around self discharge I have to assume that nearly 20-30 days of this summer saw the shed temps over 100F. It is uninsulated with a black roof... If we are to believe OCV and SG readings it puts this battery at approx 90% SOC after at least 9 months.. Read the whole article here, it is worth the read: http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/self_discharge Other references: http://www.cieux.com/bm/batteryWreck.html Wet cells can maintain a workable charge for about a year after the last full charge. When cold, wet cells lose power and cannot deliver their rated charge. Instead of waiting a year for the battery to run down, either recharge your wet cell every six months or keep it fully charged all the time by putting a floating charge on it. http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/carfaq16.htm *Self-discharge is accelerated by temperature. For batteries that are over 77° F (25° C), the self-discharge rate doubles with a 18° F (10° C) rise in temperature.* Thus, sulfation is a huge problem for wet lead-acid batteries not being used, sitting on a dealer's shelf, or in a stored vehicle, especially in *HOT* temperatures. Ken H. On 25 February 2015 at 14:29, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: One thing to keep in mind is wet cells can lose up to 10% of charge per month and gels only lose around 1%. For a boat on a mooring or otherwise off shore power this can be a factor. If you go wet cells on a mooring you will want a solar panel to keep them topped off. *Joe Della Barba* Coquina CC 35 MK I *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List *Sent:* Wednesday, February 25, 2015 12:58 PM *To:* Edd Schillay; cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Edd, I am not claiming to be an expert, but from what I have read so far, the AGMs might be a costly solution to a somewhat non-existing problem. Check Main Sail’s write ups on batteries (he did a few additional ones recently). If I understand these things correctly, the best performance per $ you will get from the wet cells (proper marine deep cycle ones). The longest duty cycle – from the golf batteries (the main disadvantage – they are higher than most other batteries, but this is for a reason – there is extra electrolyte over the plates and they don’t get uncovered when the boat heels). The most convenient – gel cells (few disadvantages of AGMs and most of the advantages of wet cells plus they don’t spill, don’t have issues with heeling angle and can be placed safely in the cabin). AGMs would require special care (when charging) and may not last that long. You may find interesting the results of the battery survey Main Sail did recently. Here is the link to his “early results”: http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=168972. Or his take on the flooded deep cycle batteries here: http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/deep_cycle_batterypage=1 Marek *From:* Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Sent:* Wednesday, February 25, 2015 12:16 PM *To:* CC List cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Josh, I’m leaning towards 4 to 6 (depending on the space available) Trojan T-105s, but am concerned about the maintenance, especially since I’m kinda cut off from the boat all winter long. Alternatively, I was looking at these AGMs: http://www.atbatt.com/amstron-gc2-6v-agm-deep-cycle-battery.asp?utm_content=Amstron-AP-GC2utm_term=AP-GC2utm_category=Sealed-Lead-Acidgclid=CLy95KfH_cMCFXBp7Aod2WkA2g, but won’t bother if AGMs are only going to last a few years. My charging system is the alternator, since the Enterprise lives on a mooring during the season (yes — we call that standard orbit). I only hook up to shore power a few times a year when cruising. The new system will connect the alternator to the house bank and use a Blue Seas ACR ( https://www.bluesea.com/products/7610/SI-ACR_Automatic_Charging_Relay_-_12_24V_DC_120A) to also charge the starting battery. That means I'll have a New-In-Box Echo Charger to sell this Spring. All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log http
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
One thing to keep in mind is wet cells can lose up to 10% of charge per month and gels only lose around 1%. For a boat on a mooring or otherwise off shore power this can be a factor. If you go wet cells on a mooring you will want a solar panel to keep them topped off. Joe Della Barba Coquina CC 35 MK I From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 12:58 PM To: Edd Schillay; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Edd, I am not claiming to be an expert, but from what I have read so far, the AGMs might be a costly solution to a somewhat non-existing problem. Check Main Sail's write ups on batteries (he did a few additional ones recently). If I understand these things correctly, the best performance per $ you will get from the wet cells (proper marine deep cycle ones). The longest duty cycle - from the golf batteries (the main disadvantage - they are higher than most other batteries, but this is for a reason - there is extra electrolyte over the plates and they don't get uncovered when the boat heels). The most convenient - gel cells (few disadvantages of AGMs and most of the advantages of wet cells plus they don't spill, don't have issues with heeling angle and can be placed safely in the cabin). AGMs would require special care (when charging) and may not last that long. You may find interesting the results of the battery survey Main Sail did recently. Here is the link to his early results: http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=168972. Or his take on the flooded deep cycle batteries here: http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/deep_cycle_batterypage=1 Marek From: Edd Schillay via CnC-Listmailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 12:16 PM To: CC Listmailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Josh, I'm leaning towards 4 to 6 (depending on the space available) Trojan T-105s, but am concerned about the maintenance, especially since I'm kinda cut off from the boat all winter long. Alternatively, I was looking at these AGMs: http://www.atbatt.com/amstron-gc2-6v-agm-deep-cycle-battery.asp?utm_content=Amstron-AP-GC2utm_term=AP-GC2utm_category=Sealed-Lead-Acidgclid=CLy95KfH_cMCFXBp7Aod2WkA2g, but won't bother if AGMs are only going to last a few years. My charging system is the alternator, since the Enterprise lives on a mooring during the season (yes - we call that standard orbit). I only hook up to shore power a few times a year when cruising. The new system will connect the alternator to the house bank and use a Blue Seas ACR (https://www.bluesea.com/products/7610/SI-ACR_Automatic_Charging_Relay_-_12_24V_DC_120A) to also charge the starting battery. That means I'll have a New-In-Box Echo Charger to sell this Spring. All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Loghttp://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/ On Feb 25, 2015, at 11:53 AM, Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.commailto:muckl...@gmail.com wrote: I was at a point of extremes when I bought 5 AutoZone marine/deep cycle for a total of about $600 and 500Ahrs (~250Ahrs usable without damage). They are the standard maintenance free auto style which can be but are not intended to be watered. For me they were relatively cheap, readily available, easy to claim warranty, light enough to move/install/uninstall. They are also the easiest to charge and discharge since it is such a long standing standard. There are certainly advantages to other technologies and disadvantages to wet cells but for now this solution has met my needs very comfortably. T-105 golf cart batteries would really be my only other concideration but availability, movability, and warranty claimability are hold backs. You also have to consider the charging system when choosing batteries. I have a 100amp balmer alternator with external charge controller and a ProMariner P Nautic 60-12 charger/maintainer. There are disadvantages to staying on shore power 24/7 but it is working for me right now. Maybe I'll change that practice in the future. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Feb 25, 2015 11:17 AM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.commailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Listers, As you know, I'm redoing the electrical systems on the Enterprise (thanks to all for diagrams and advice). So now comes the question of what type of battery to use in my house bank - Flooded, Sealed or AGM? What do you have on your CC and why do you prefer it? And, if you have flooded, how often do you top them off with distilled water? The countdown has begun! http://enterpriseb.blogspot.com/2015/02/launch-of-enterprise-countdown.html All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
I would like to add to what Joe said that if you don’t have the shore power, you do need some additional way of charging the batteries. The alternator alone would not be able to do the job, unless you motor extensively (and then you might question why you are carrying that stick pointing up from the deck or the 3000-500 lb. of lead under the hull). This applies to any kind of battery, almost regardless of chemistry and technology. Probably even more to AGMs, because they hate to be left at a discharged state for any longer period. Marek From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 1:29 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? One thing to keep in mind is wet cells can lose up to 10% of charge per month and gels only lose around 1%. For a boat on a mooring or otherwise off shore power this can be a factor. If you go wet cells on a mooring you will want a solar panel to keep them topped off. Joe Della Barba Coquina CC 35 MK I From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 12:58 PM To: Edd Schillay; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Edd, I am not claiming to be an expert, but from what I have read so far, the AGMs might be a costly solution to a somewhat non-existing problem. Check Main Sail’s write ups on batteries (he did a few additional ones recently). If I understand these things correctly, the best performance per $ you will get from the wet cells (proper marine deep cycle ones). The longest duty cycle – from the golf batteries (the main disadvantage – they are higher than most other batteries, but this is for a reason – there is extra electrolyte over the plates and they don’t get uncovered when the boat heels). The most convenient – gel cells (few disadvantages of AGMs and most of the advantages of wet cells plus they don’t spill, don’t have issues with heeling angle and can be placed safely in the cabin). AGMs would require special care (when charging) and may not last that long. You may find interesting the results of the battery survey Main Sail did recently. Here is the link to his “early results”: http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=168972. Or his take on the flooded deep cycle batteries here: http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/deep_cycle_batterypage=1 Marek From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 12:16 PM To: CC List Subject: Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Josh, I’m leaning towards 4 to 6 (depending on the space available) Trojan T-105s, but am concerned about the maintenance, especially since I’m kinda cut off from the boat all winter long. Alternatively, I was looking at these AGMs: http://www.atbatt.com/amstron-gc2-6v-agm-deep-cycle-battery.asp?utm_content=Amstron-AP-GC2utm_term=AP-GC2utm_category=Sealed-Lead-Acidgclid=CLy95KfH_cMCFXBp7Aod2WkA2g, but won’t bother if AGMs are only going to last a few years. My charging system is the alternator, since the Enterprise lives on a mooring during the season (yes — we call that standard orbit). I only hook up to shore power a few times a year when cruising. The new system will connect the alternator to the house bank and use a Blue Seas ACR (https://www.bluesea.com/products/7610/SI-ACR_Automatic_Charging_Relay_-_12_24V_DC_120A) to also charge the starting battery. That means I'll have a New-In-Box Echo Charger to sell this Spring. All the best, Edd Edd M. Schillay Starship Enterprise CC 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B City Island, NY Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log On Feb 25, 2015, at 11:53 AM, Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com wrote: I was at a point of extremes when I bought 5 AutoZone marine/deep cycle for a total of about $600 and 500Ahrs (~250Ahrs usable without damage). They are the standard maintenance free auto style which can be but are not intended to be watered. For me they were relatively cheap, readily available, easy to claim warranty, light enough to move/install/uninstall. They are also the easiest to charge and discharge since it is such a long standing standard. There are certainly advantages to other technologies and disadvantages to wet cells but for now this solution has met my needs very comfortably. T-105 golf cart batteries would really be my only other concideration but availability, movability, and warranty claimability are hold backs. You also have to consider the charging system when choosing batteries. I have a 100amp balmer alternator with external charge controller and a ProMariner P Nautic 60-12 charger/maintainer. There are disadvantages to staying on shore power 24/7 but it is working for me right now. Maybe I'll change that practice in the future. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
Ed, But it takes only a small panel to provide adequate current to keep them topped off. You will need your alternator when using the batteries for cruising, of course, but sitting on the mooring, even 0.5 - 1 amp is sufficient. That's all I use on Cat's Paw (kept on a mooring); I have a small solar panel on the forward hatch. Even with a small panel, though, I recommend a simple charge regulator to stop the charging when the batteries are topped up. Eric Frank Cat's Paw, CC 35 Mk II One thing to keep in mind is wet cells can lose up to 10% of charge per month and gels only lose around 1%. For a boat on a mooring or otherwise off shore power this can be a factor. If you go wet cells on a mooring you will want a solar panel to keep them topped off. Joe Della Barba Coquina CC 35 MK I ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
In response to the concern of spilling acid in a wet cell on a rail-in-the-water-heel Maine Sail has this one covered too. Wet cells won't leak (until you have already capsized and then you have bigger problems) if the are oriented the correct way in the boat. http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/flooded_battery_orientation Ken H. http://www.sailmagazine.com/sites/default/files/B.jpg On 25 February 2015 at 16:16, Burt Stratton bstrat...@falconnect.com wrote: I may be new to sailing but not to boats. My last boat had (3) 12V starting batteries and (2) 6V (in series) for the house bank. All deep cycle wet cell varying in age from one to six years. My current boat has only (2) 12V (age unknown) with nothing to charge them but the A-4. I have never experienced any amount of self discharge to the point of concern over any reasonable amount of time. I have always kept them on the boat over the winter and top them off and check fluid level in the beginning of the season. Last year I didn’t even do that and both engines (1970 GMC 427 Mercruisers) cranked over plenty strong after a winter on the boat. (that was right before I sold her and got my CC 33) A agree that the predictions of self-discharging over time have never in my experience come to pass. In response to the concern of spilling acid in a wet cell on a rail-in-the-water-heel, I think they made sealed no maintenance wet cell batteries. They do for uninterruptible power systems (UPSs). Airplanes, too I think. I will have to look into that. The old boat didn’t tip that much. *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Heaton via CnC-List *Sent:* Wednesday, February 25, 2015 2:20 PM *To:* Della Barba, Joe; cnc-list *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? wet cells can lose up to 10% of charge per month I've seen various outlandish quotes like that on the internet. They are pure BS. As I understand it, the storage temperature a flooded battery would have to be well in excess of 100 degrees Fahrenheit for this high rate of self discharge to happen. A quote from Maine Sail: I was a total disbeliever at the resting OCV of a flooded battery that has sat 100% uncharged for nearly 9 months. I grabbed my refractometer and performed specific gravity checks on each cell. They all agreed and all agreed with the DVM at the SOC.. So this causes one to wonder why there is all the concern around self discharge I have to assume that nearly 20-30 days of this summer saw the shed temps over 100F. It is uninsulated with a black roof... If we are to believe OCV and SG readings it puts this battery at approx 90% SOC after at least 9 months.. Read the whole article here, it is worth the read: http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/self_discharge Other references: http://www.cieux.com/bm/batteryWreck.html Wet cells can maintain a workable charge for about a year after the last full charge. When cold, wet cells lose power and cannot deliver their rated charge. Instead of waiting a year for the battery to run down, either recharge your wet cell every six months or keep it fully charged all the time by putting a floating charge on it. http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/carfaq16.htm *Self-discharge is accelerated by temperature. For batteries that are over 77° F (25° C), the self-discharge rate doubles with a 18° F (10° C) rise in temperature.* Thus, sulfation is a huge problem for wet lead-acid batteries not being used, sitting on a dealer's shelf, or in a stored vehicle, especially in *HOT* temperatures. Ken H. On 25 February 2015 at 14:29, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: One thing to keep in mind is wet cells can lose up to 10% of charge per month and gels only lose around 1%. For a boat on a mooring or otherwise off shore power this can be a factor. If you go wet cells on a mooring you will want a solar panel to keep them topped off. *Joe Della Barba* Coquina CC 35 MK I *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List *Sent:* Wednesday, February 25, 2015 12:58 PM *To:* Edd Schillay; cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Edd, I am not claiming to be an expert, but from what I have read so far, the AGMs might be a costly solution to a somewhat non-existing problem. Check Main Sail’s write ups on batteries (he did a few additional ones recently). If I understand these things correctly, the best performance per $ you will get from the wet cells (proper marine deep cycle ones). The longest duty cycle – from the golf batteries (the main disadvantage – they are higher than most other batteries, but this is for a reason – there is extra electrolyte over the plates and they don’t get uncovered when the boat heels). The most convenient – gel cells (few disadvantages
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
maybe, they did not have the “really good charge controllers”? (-;) From: Frederick G Street Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 4:18 PM To: Marek Dziedzic ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? And lithium burns really well when exposed to oxygen and water; not necessarily something I’d want on my boat, until the technology matures a bit. Witness the lithium battery issues on the Boeing planes. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 25, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: There are a few write-ups on the use of Li-ion batteries for sailing applications... The flip side to that is that you better have a really good charge controller. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
Michael, maybe with Lithium (Li-ion), batteries; I don’t think with NiCd. There are a few write-ups on the use of Li-ion batteries for sailing applications. If I recall correctly, you get almost double density (Ah/weight) and you can easily reach 80 % of discharge (without any damage); this means that you need almost 1/4 of the weight and 1/2 of capacity. The price is somewhat high still, but if you spend a lot of time without being able to recharge, they might offer the right value. The flip side to that is that you better have a really good charge controller. Marek From: Michael Brown via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 2:54 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? I had hoped that with the research and work being done on the larger NiCD packs in hybrid cars that marine NiCD wet cells would become more common. Michael Brown Windburn CC 30-1 ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
And lithium burns really well when exposed to oxygen and water; not necessarily something I’d want on my boat, until the technology matures a bit. Witness the lithium battery issues on the Boeing planes. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 25, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: There are a few write-ups on the use of Li-ion batteries for sailing applications... The flip side to that is that you better have a really good charge controller. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
Keep in mind that most racing rules prohibit use of wet cells for obvious reasons. Knot sure what Maine Sail has to say about defying specific gravity when pinned on a knock down or round down. (I believe most of what Maine Sail has to say, but not all...) Here is another guy in Maine with a more forward looking view. http://www.bruceschwab.com/ KD (pun intended) On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 1:19 PM Frederick G Street via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: And lithium burns *really* well when exposed to oxygen and water; not necessarily something I’d want on my boat, until the technology matures a bit. Witness the lithium battery issues on the Boeing planes. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 25, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: There are a few write-ups on the use of Li-ion batteries for sailing applications... The flip side to that is that you better have a really good charge controller. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
Boeing...and Titan, a boat we built several years back had a fire in Antigua in 2011. We no longer install li-ion batteries. Harry Sent from my iPhone On Feb 25, 2015, at 16:18, Frederick G Street via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: And lithium burns really well when exposed to oxygen and water; not necessarily something I’d want on my boat, until the technology matures a bit. Witness the lithium battery issues on the Boeing planes. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 25, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: There are a few write-ups on the use of Li-ion batteries for sailing applications... The flip side to that is that you better have a really good charge controller. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
I installed a 50W solar panel last summer to keep batteries topped off at the mooring. I bought one sized to fit the sliding companionway hatch. I ran the wires to a 12v outlet plug near the start panel and from there to a charge controller mounted in the lazarette. I leave it just sitting on the hatch when gone and unplug it and throw it on the rear mattress when I get to the boat. It is heavy enough that it is not going anywhere short of a serious gale, but light enough that it is easy to move around. It worked great last season and well worth the time investment to get the wiring installed. Dave On Feb 25, 2015, at 3:36 PM, Eric Frank via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Ed, But it takes only a small panel to provide adequate current to keep them topped off. You will need your alternator when using the batteries for cruising, of course, but sitting on the mooring, even 0.5 - 1 amp is sufficient. That's all I use on Cat's Paw (kept on a mooring); I have a small solar panel on the forward hatch. Even with a small panel, though, I recommend a simple charge regulator to stop the charging when the batteries are topped up. Eric Frank Cat's Paw, CC 35 Mk II One thing to keep in mind is wet cells can lose up to 10% of charge per month and gels only lose around 1%. For a boat on a mooring or otherwise off shore power this can be a factor. If you go wet cells on a mooring you will want a solar panel to keep them topped off. Joe Della Barba Coquina CC 35 MK I ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
T-105 PLUS DATA SHEET OPERATIONAL DATA Operating Temperature Self Discharge -4°F to 113°F (-20°C to +45°C). At temperatures below 32°F (0°C) maintain a state of charge greater than 60%. 5 15% per month depending on storage temperature conditions From Trojan themselves. Joe Della Barba j...@dellabarba.com mailto:j...@dellabarba.com Coquina From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 4:43 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? maybe, they did not have the really good charge controllers? (-;) From: Frederick G Street mailto:f...@postaudio.net Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 4:18 PM To: Marek Dziedzic mailto:dziedzi...@hotmail.com ; cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? And lithium burns really well when exposed to oxygen and water; not necessarily something Id want on my boat, until the technology matures a bit. Witness the lithium battery issues on the Boeing planes. Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 25, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: There are a few write-ups on the use of Li-ion batteries for sailing applications... The flip side to that is that you better have a really good charge controller. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM?
May I ask which unit? David F. Risch (401) 419-4650 (cell) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:58:45 -0500 To: efran...@mac.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com I installed a 50W solar panel last summer to keep batteries topped off at the mooring. I bought one sized to fit the sliding companionway hatch. I ran the wires to a 12v outlet plug near the start panel and from there to a charge controller mounted in the lazarette. I leave it just sitting on the hatch when gone and unplug it and throw it on the rear mattress when I get to the boat. It is heavy enough that it is not going anywhere short of a serious gale, but light enough that it is easy to move around. It worked great last season and well worth the time investment to get the wiring installed. Dave On Feb 25, 2015, at 3:36 PM, Eric Frank via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote:Ed, But it takes only a small panel to provide adequate current to keep them topped off. You will need your alternator when using the batteries for cruising, of course, but sitting on the mooring, even 0.5 - 1 amp is sufficient. That's all I use on Cat's Paw (kept on a mooring); I have a small solar panel on the forward hatch. Even with a small panel, though, I recommend a simple charge regulator to stop the charging when the batteries are topped up. Eric Frank Cat's Paw, CC 35 Mk II One thing to keep in mind is wet cells can lose up to 10% of charge per month and gels only lose around 1%. For a boat on a mooring or otherwise off shore power this can be a factor. If you go wet cells on a mooring you will want a solar panel to keep them topped off. Joe Della Barba Coquina CC 35 MK I ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com Aries1990 CC 34+New London, CT ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Battery orientation
I selected AGMs because they don't release gas and are supposed to still work on their sides. Mine are located under the aft bunk aligned port to starb. Expensive but tough and reliable, have lasted 10 years for me. - Original Message - From: PME via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com, Ken Heaton kenhea...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 5:52:55 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Battery orientation Ken, Thanks for the link. Great read as most of Maine Sail’s articles are. I am rearranging the batteries in my engine compartment, and I did not think much about the wet cell battery orientation: port-starboard or stern-bow. As Maine Sail shows, wet cell batteries should be aligned port-starboard on sailboats. While on my 29 I had all batteries aligned port-starboard, on the LF38 I have one wet cell aligned stern-bow which I will look into correcting. - Paul E. 1981 CC Landfall 38 S/V Johanna Rose Carrabelle, FL On Feb 25, 2015, at 4:18 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:35:06 -0400 From: Ken Heaton kenhea...@gmail.com To: Burt Stratton bstrat...@falconnect.com Cc: cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Message-ID: caabfp6rjkuuht45nj6mevf1mqgxyznnjsmf56ldtwhnaknd...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In response to the concern of spilling acid in a wet cell on a rail-in-the-water-heel Maine Sail has this one covered too. Wet cells won't leak (until you have already capsized and then you have bigger problems) if the are oriented the correct way in the boat. http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/flooded_battery_orientation Ken H. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Battery orientation
Ken, Thanks for the link. Great read as most of Maine Sail’s articles are. I am rearranging the batteries in my engine compartment, and I did not think much about the wet cell battery orientation: port-starboard or stern-bow. As Maine Sail shows, wet cell batteries should be aligned port-starboard on sailboats. While on my 29 I had all batteries aligned port-starboard, on the LF38 I have one wet cell aligned stern-bow which I will look into correcting. - Paul E. 1981 CC Landfall 38 S/V Johanna Rose Carrabelle, FL On Feb 25, 2015, at 4:18 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:35:06 -0400 From: Ken Heaton kenhea...@gmail.com mailto:kenhea...@gmail.com To: Burt Stratton bstrat...@falconnect.com mailto:bstrat...@falconnect.com Cc: cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Message-ID: caabfp6rjkuuht45nj6mevf1mqgxyznnjsmf56ldtwhnaknd...@mail.gmail.com mailto:caabfp6rjkuuht45nj6mevf1mqgxyznnjsmf56ldtwhnaknd...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 In response to the concern of spilling acid in a wet cell on a rail-in-the-water-heel Maine Sail has this one covered too. Wet cells won't leak (until you have already capsized and then you have bigger problems) if the are oriented the correct way in the boat. http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/flooded_battery_orientation http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/flooded_battery_orientation Ken H. ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Battery
Doug, So far I have an AGM start battery and a group 29 wet cell along the port engine side. I purchased the boat with only one battery and no engine installed. I did get the old engine in pieces (aka a basket case) which I rebuilt and just installed. I am still trying to figure out where most things went or should go. - Paul E. 1981 CC Landfall 38 S/V Johanna Rose Carrabelle, FL On Feb 25, 2015, at 7:31 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:31:16 -0800 (PST) From: svpegasu...@gmail.com mailto:svpegasu...@gmail.com svpegasu...@gmail.com mailto:svpegasu...@gmail.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Battery orientation Message-ID: 000f4242.27231960285cb...@gmail.com mailto:000f4242.27231960285cb...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Paul, where are your batteries located? I currently have 2 group 24 starting batteries alongside the port side of the engine. 2 T105's in the little cubby below the power panels, And a 4D under the starboard quarter berth. The last one I am goint to move to under the port quarter berth. Plan on converting the starboard q-berth to a nav station.? DougPegasus1979 LF38? T-Mobile. America's First Nationwide 4G Network. -- Original message--From: PME via CnC-List Date: Wed, Feb 25, 2015 14:53To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com;Ken Heaton;Subject:Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Battery orientationKen, Thanks for the link. Great read as most of Maine Sail?s articles are. ?I am rearranging the batteries in my engine compartment, and I did not think much about the wet cell battery orientation: port-starboard or stern-bow. ? As Maine Sail shows, wet cell batteries should be aligned port-starboard on sailboats. While on my 29 I had all batteries aligned port-starboard, on the LF38 I have one wet cell aligned stern-bow which I will look into correcting. ? - Paul E. 1981 CC Landfall 38 S/V Johanna Rose Carrabelle, FL ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Battery
Paul, if you have any questions feel free to email me off site. Does your boat have the nav station or quater berth or the quarter berth on the starboard side? DougPegasus1979 LF38 T-Mobile. America's First Nationwide 4G Network. -- Original message--From: PME via CnC-List Date: Wed, Feb 25, 2015 20:40To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com;Subject:Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? BatteryDoug, So far I have an AGM start battery and a group 29 wet cell along the port engine side. I purchased the boat with only one battery and no engine installed. I did get the old engine in pieces (aka a basket case) which I rebuilt and just installed. I am still trying to figure out where most things went or should go. - Paul E. 1981 CC Landfall 38 S/V Johanna Rose Carrabelle, FL On Feb 25, 2015, at 7:31 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 16:31:16 -0800 (PST) From: svpegasu...@gmail.com svpegasu...@gmail.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded,Sealed or AGM? Battery orientation Message-ID: 000f4242.27231960285cb...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Paul, where are your batteries located? I currently have 2 group 24 starting batteries alongside the port side of the engine. 2 T105's in the little cubby below the power panels, And a 4D under the starboard quarter berth. The last one I am goint to move to under the port quarter berth. Plan on converting the starboard q-berth to a nav station.? DougPegasus1979 LF38? T-Mobile. America's First Nationwide 4G Network. -- Original message--From: PME via CnC-List Date: Wed, Feb 25, 2015 14:53To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com;Ken Heaton;Subject:Re: Stus-List Batteries -- Flooded, Sealed or AGM? Battery orientationKen, Thanks for the link. Great read as most of Maine Sail?s articles are. ?I am rearranging the batteries in my engine compartment, and I did not think much about the wet cell battery orientation: port-starboard or stern-bow. ? As Maine Sail shows, wet cell batteries should be aligned port-starboard on sailboats. While on my 29 I had all batteries aligned port-starboard, on the LF38 I have one wet cell aligned stern-bow which I will look into correcting. ? - Paul E. 1981 CC Landfall 38 S/V Johanna Rose Carrabelle, FL ___ Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go to the bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
