Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
Dave Brondsema wrote: > > So if it's not a formality that all new ASF projects should undergo, who > decides > if a project should be incubated or if it can go directly to being a regular > project? code coming to the asf which has existed elsewhere first *must* come in through the incubator in order that the legal issues can be sorted. the only way something can 'go directly to being a regular project' is if it has all of its origins inside the asf and thus there is no chance for the ip and provenance to be clouded. -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/ Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/ "Millennium hand and shrimp!" - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > > Does it seem sensible to take an already successful ASL licensed, community > developed piece of software by an already successful open source developer > and force it into a somewhat beta status by making it go through the > incubator "just because that is the way things are done"? no. however, it *does* make sense for it to have to go through the incubator for the reasons it exists. which are not 'just because that is the way things are done.' little things, like the due diligence of getting all the clas, the copyright assignment, and licence vetting, among other things. if you can't be constructive, andy, i wish you'd just shut up. suggest ways to improve the things you don't like, or just remain silent, can't you? -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/ Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/ "Millennium hand and shrimp!" - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
Ted Leung wrote: > I'm not fully up on LDAP -- can I just put pointer records into it?. > perhaps the LDAP records for someone could have a urls.txt kind of > pointer, and contain or point to foundation specific records. Short answer is yes. Longer answer is RFC 2079. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
On Jan 11, 2004, at 9:55 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Ted Leung wrote: If we had some kind of record (like a FOAF file) that we stick krell, and planet* and whatever data in, that would be good. We're starting to have data all over the place. members.txt, urls.txt, and probably more that I'm not remembering. Be nice to have an authoritative file that can generate all the rest (in their existing formats so as not to break working code). Sander and I have been mulling over using LDAP for this purpose. It supports all of the kinds of data we need, is integrated with all sorts of authentication mechanisms, and is supported by many languages. From that we could have tools to emit the existing files, and people could start to migrate their tools to work directly off of the LDAP database. I'm not fully up on LDAP -- can I just put pointer records into it?. Ben and I were talking about how the krell stuff works -- basically urls.txt is a file of pointers to remote files which krell scrapes for ICBM, name, blog, and potentially other information. This is appealing for the data that should be under the control of the individual as opposed to the foundation. So perhaps the LDAP records for someone could have a urls.txt kind of pointer, and contain or point to foundation specific records. Just thinking out loud. Also the planet folks are talking about building cross planet links, etc using FOAF. Ted Leung Blog: http://www.sauria.com/blog PGP Fingerprint: 1003 7870 251F FA71 A59A CEE3 BEBA 2B87 F5FC 4B42 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: > If Incubator Committee takes "graduation examination" bi-monthly > in place by force partly, many "under-incubation" projects might > pass the exams. Even though fails, they would pass in the next period. Each project in the Incubator is required to maintain a STATUS file, which contains information related to its readiness to "graduate" from the Incubator. We have plans to do a periodic review of each project's status prepatory to the Incubator's own report to the ASF Board. > Most of the "under-incubation" projects do not have "definitive goals". All of the projects in the Incubator have definitive goals, as noted by the STATUS file. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote: ... Most of the "under-incubation" projects do not have "definitive goals". http://incubator.apache.org/projects/index.html Every project name links to the goals. ...(moved text from top to bottom) > Very simple. If Incubator Committee takes "graduation examination" > bi-monthly in place by force partly, many "under-incubation" projects > might pass the exams. Even though fails, they would pass in the > next period. We have already decided that Projects should send in status updates, which seems in line with your suggestion. I will soon ask projects to send a status update, so we will see soon if you are right (I hope so :-) -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 13:55:27 -0500 Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > > In my opinion, some projects are spending too long in the Incubator because > > they aren't focusing on getting out. > Let us analyze why that is. Very simple. If Incubator Committee takes "graduation examination" bi-monthly in place by force partly, many "under-incubation" projects might pass the exams. Even though fails, they would pass in the next period. Psycologically, this would be proven without difficulty. Most of the "under-incubation" projects do not have "definitive goals". You can remember old high school days. "Exam" period makes people down in the dump but very important in life. Makes the green youths matured dramatically. Legally speaking, "legislation of specified duration" "an act valid for a specified period of time" ... would be different in terms of their blueprints and side-effects (psycological effects etc.) from normal acts. Especially, in criminal laws. Now I am talking about the effects of "specified duration" with an economist in japan who had been one of the members in IETF/W3C. I found a crucial difference between the asf and w3c. In Derivatives/Securitization (advanced finance) field, "DURATION" is a very important term, needless to say. I am sure that the concept of "duration" would be tightly related to institutionalization in any forms of the organizations. Sincerely, - Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.terra-intl.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > > In my opinion, some projects are spending too long in the > > Incubator because they aren't focusing on getting out. > Let us analyze why that is. I cannot speak for why they don't focusing on exiting, Andrew, and neither can you. You might ask each project why they have cleared whatever issues they need to clear. Each project is different: some have IP issues, some have community issues, some may just be comfortable and haven't bothered to finish doing their paperwork. This is something that the Incubator PMC will likely take up this quarter after we have finished our own re-documentation of Incubator processes to reflect recent changes. > > Endorsement by the ASF > Great, I have a few more questions: I'm sure you do. > Do you think that to an Apache layman there is a great difference > between a project legally protected and served from Apache servers > and a "not in incubator" project with the same distinctions? Incubation status is more of a caution to a user, or a redistributor, that the project's IP is still being cleared up, or that its community may not be stable enough to ensure the long term viability of the project within the ASF. And yes, I think that people do make a distinction when something is stamped with the "Incubator brand." Although we are not requiring projects created earlier to change their URLs, new projects have their web sites under the incubator.apache.org domain. > What effects does "pre-acceptance" have on the motivation to build a proper > community? Projects in the Incubator are not assured of acceptance. What I have observed is that if a proposed project has a diverse developer base containing existing ASF Committers and going into an existing PMC then it is likely to be able to check off the Community issues, and thus be prepared to exit quickly. As for any motivation to build a proper community, even existing ASF projects should be continually invested in building their community. > How does serving projects that we are not certain are clean legally, etc. > from Apache servers and requiring CLAs from their committers and offering > them some form of protection put the foundation at risk? What benefits do > we receive from accepting this risk? As I said the last time a related question came up, only the Board can and should speak authoritatively on the subject of legal protections. So I'm not going to engage in a hypothetical debate about the legal protection afforded to projects in the Incubator. The benefit we gain from incubation is growing the ASF while reducing risk related to tainted code and unstable communities. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
> In my opinion, some projects are spending too long in the Incubator because > they aren't focusing on getting out. Let us analyze why that is. > Endorsement by the ASF Great, I have a few more questions: Do you think that to an Apache layman (the larger technical and potentially world community) there is a great difference between a project legally protected and served from Apache servers and a "not in incubator" project with the same distinctions? Do you think there is a legal distinction? For those seeking the Apache brand, do you think there is a great deal of reason to propel further? What effects does "pre-acceptance" have on the motivation to build a proper community? How does serving projects that we are not certain are clean legally, etc. from Apache servers and requiring CLAs from their committers and offering them some form of protection put the foundation at risk? What benefits do we receive from accepting this risk? Thanks, -Andy -- Andrew C. Oliver http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI http://jakarta.apache.org/poi For Java and Excel, Got POI? The views expressed in this email are those of the author and are almost definitely not shared by the Apache Software Foundation, its board or its general membership. In fact they probably most definitively disagree with everything espoused in the above email. > From: "Noel J. Bergman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: community@apache.org > Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 19:05:34 -0500 > To: > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs > > Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > >>> Unrelated to whether or not we would use it, I think that blojsom could > be a >>> very nice ASF project. From what I have seen of it, I'd support its > entry >>> to the Incubator. > >> Does it seem sensible to take an already successful ASL licensed, >> community developed piece of software by an already successful >> open source developer and force it into a somewhat beta status by >> making it go through the incubator "just because that is the way >> things are done"? > > The Incubator's purpose is to ensure that projects coming into the ASF > > - are legally clean, > - that their communities are healthy, > - and that they follow basic ASF policies/procedures. > > In my opinion, some projects are spending too long in the Incubator because > they aren't focusing on getting out. > > If a project is a successful, ASF license, community-developed piece of > software, then it need not stay long in the Incubator. However, ASF > projects are supposed to be developed by communities, because it is > important that the project survive beyond the interests of any particular > participant. That is why two of the purposes for Incubation are to ensure > that there is a healthy developing COMMUNITY, and that it is following basic > ASF policies. > > Cocoon's Lenya project and XML's XMLBeans project are far from "beta > status." As noted by multiple projects in the Incubator: "Incubation is > required of all newly accepted projects until a further review indicates > that the infrastructure, communications, and decision making process have > stabilized in a manner consistent with other successful ASF projects. While > incubation status is not necessarily a reflection of the completeness or > stability of the code, it does indicate that the project has yet to be fully > endorsed by the ASF." > > Endorsement by the ASF is based upon with the belief that a project's IP is > clean, and that it has developed a healthy community that will ensure its > long term viability. We incubate projects to ensure those things, not for > ceremony or "just because that is the way things are done." > > --- Noel > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
Ted Leung wrote: > If we had some kind of record (like a FOAF file) that we stick krell, > and planet* and whatever data in, that would be good. We're starting > to have data all over the place. members.txt, urls.txt, and probably > more that I'm not remembering. Be nice to have an authoritative file > that can generate all the rest (in their existing formats so as not > to break working code). Sander and I have been mulling over using LDAP for this purpose. It supports all of the kinds of data we need, is integrated with all sorts of authentication mechanisms, and is supported by many languages. From that we could have tools to emit the existing files, and people could start to migrate their tools to work directly off of the LDAP database. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
On Jan 11, 2004, at 3:16 AM, Ted Leung wrote: I've created a directory 'planet' in the committers CVS. It just contains the planet config file at the moment. In preparation for Tom's hosting coming on line, committers can add their entries by following my example. Done. For those who want to set up categorized RSS feeds using MovableType, have a look at http://www.hutteman.com/weblog/2003/03/07-49.html Ideally this wants to generated from some centralized record, but I'm willing to refactor the process as we go. I'll make a real announcement to committers@ once we get the hosting squared away. Let me know if I can help. -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source Java & XMLAn Orixo Member Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
I've created a directory 'planet' in the committers CVS. It just contains the planet config file at the moment. In preparation for Tom's hosting coming on line, committers can add their entries by following my example. Ideally this wants to generated from some centralized record, but I'm willing to refactor the process as we go. I'll make a real announcement to committers@ once we get the hosting squared away. Ted - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
Dave Brondsema wrote: > So if it's not a formality that all new ASF projects should undergo, who decides > if a project should be incubated or if it can go directly to being a regular > project? The ASF Board, when it created the Incubator, and designated it as the only PMC authorized to accept new code bases on behalf of the Foundation. No project is allowed to accept externally developed code bases except through the Incubator. That is not to say that there have not been violations of this rule, including recently, but that is the rule. Some of the violations did not come with code grants. Having a substantial code base funded and developed by a corporation, and then contributed to the ASF is great, but not without a signed authorization that we have the right to distribute it under the Apache Software License. Filling out a STATUS form helps to make sure that foul ups like that don't continue to happen. How hard is it to fill this form out for a permanent record: http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/incubator/site/projects/incubat ion-status-template.cwiki? And not everything needs to be filled out, depending upon where the code base is going to land. The Incubator does not exist to be onerous or torturous. Projects need to stay in the Incubator only long enough to satisfy the criteria. The Incubator's job is to make sure that the IP is clean, the community healthy, and the basic rules are followed. Recent changes to the Incubation process direct involve each project closely in the process, which is a significant change. In several recent cases, projects have spent more time arguing about why they should be exempt or given special considerations than they have had to spend on Incubation. In a simple case of an externally developed code base being contributed to an existing project, the code base entered the Incubator last week, and looks likely to exit it next week. The time was spent primarily to receive documentation of the contribution, remove discovered GPL dependencies, verifying that there were no other IP issues, and completing a STATUS form. Consider Axion as an example of a standalone package. It was accepted into the Incubator on December 19th. From their STATUS (http://incubator.apache.org/projects/axion.html), I would expect that they are close to being ready to leave, and probably could have by now except for the holidays. They need to finishing filling in their STATUS, but although we won't know until they finish, from what I believe true of their actual project status, they ought to be good to exit. Mind you, although Axion was developed externally, it was done by ASF Committers, and is going into an existing PMC, which helps to complete a lot of the Incubation checklist. Spam Assassin, Directory, and Geronimo are all examples of projects that should spend more time than the preceding in the Incubator. They are all intended to be top-level projects. However, the PPMC mechanism enables each to participate directly in the management of the project, and so far the feedback from the actual participants in that process has been entirely positive. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
> I would like to see the "cheerful"/"considerate" incubation. So do we all. > > The Incubator's purpose is to ensure that projects coming into the ASF > > - are legally clean, > > - that their communities are healthy, > > - and that they follow basic ASF policies/procedures. > I agree with this, too. IMHO, the problem seems ... You might actually want to look at the form used to help evaluate a project's status. The process is very straightforward and there is no reason for conflict. > I'd like to know why there could be a lot of "far from beta" > projects in incubator. (Really are they "far from beta"?) They are "far from beta" in that the code for Lenya, XMLBeans and Spam Assassin is mature and stable. But that does not mean that the projects yet satisfy the three criteria above. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
I've lost track of who's working on krell nowadays. I'm actually not as interested in the code as the data. If we had some kind of record (like a FOAF file) that we stick krell, and planet* and whatever data in, that would be good. We're starting to have data all over the place. members.txt, urls.txt, and probably more that I'm not remembering. Be nice to have an authoritative file that can generate all the rest (in their existing formats so as not to break working code). Ted On Jan 8, 2004, at 12:41 PM, Ben Hyde wrote: I like the planetapache.org approach. It mimize the coordination costs of getting something up and running. I'd encourage putting any stuff into the committer repository so you can parasite on the infrastructure to allow everybody to pitch in who cares to and just publish the results to the planetapache thang. If it helps, feel free to stick someplace in krell, or not :-). If you don't want to use perl in krell just, that's cool; I think we already have some Java. I'd love to see a 'project' that uses 7-12 different languages ;-) - ben On Jan 8, 2004, at 2:15 PM, Ted Leung wrote: Thom already registered planetapache.org and volunteered to host if. If the ASF changes is mind and wants to host it, I'm sure that could be arranged. On Jan 8, 2004, at 11:11 AM, Sander Temme wrote: Let's just register planetapache.org and be done with it. +1 +1 Would the Foundation handle that, and host it, or would that have to be a private initiative? S. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.temme.net/sander/ PGP FP: 51B4 8727 466A 0BC3 69F4 B7B8 B2BE BC40 1529 24AF - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ted Leung Blog: http://www.sauria.com/blog PGP Fingerprint: 1003 7870 251F FA71 A59A CEE3 BEBA 2B87 F5FC 4B42 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ted Leung Blog: http://www.sauria.com/blog PGP Fingerprint: 1003 7870 251F FA71 A59A CEE3 BEBA 2B87 F5FC 4B42 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
Noel, > > Ceremony. I suspect it that even such a nice community has to > > be baptized once. (one day or less) > > Legitimatization, in order to keep *consistency* in a big > > and social community. To make it orthodox. > No, Incubation has nothing to do with pomp and circumstance. Pomp? .. I do not think "it" is pomp. What makes "it" pomp might be the intentions/hearts of the interested parties. I would like to see the "cheerful"/"considerate" incubation. However, > The Incubator's purpose is to ensure that projects coming into the ASF > - are legally clean, > - that their communities are healthy, > - and that they follow basic ASF policies/procedures. I agree with this, too. IMHO, the problem seems that the last two purposes listed here can not be measured in scientific way. Also, i am afraid it that 99% of the participants in incubator would be not laywers. How can you, non-laywers, judge whether XYZ project is legally clean/safe or not, by the way? (Sorry for such a childish question) ... Incubator project PMC has at least three laywers? Also, I'd like to know why there could be a lot of "far from beta" projects in incubator. (Really are they "far from beta"?) I am happy to see the "nurturing" incubation process & projects, which can be also suitable for http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Points/ http://www.w3.org/2003/06/Process-20030618/ -- From the stand point of the "affinity" to the other apache.org projects ...: I think it that it takes over a month. First Step: "Accredited ASF Sister Project" (1) Second Step: "Incubated Project" (2) Third Step: "ASF Project" (3) ... *maybe* this is good. (not sure) ... I think it that XYZ project coming to apache can get "affinity" to the other apache.org projects during (1) process/step. (1) would not have to do with legal issues. -- Thank you for reading. - Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.terra-intl.com/ http://www.apache.org/~tetsuya/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
On Sun, 2004-01-11 at 01:05, Noel J. Bergman wrote: > Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > > > > Unrelated to whether or not we would use it, I think that blojsom could > be a > > > very nice ASF project. From what I have seen of it, I'd support its > entry > > > to the Incubator. > > > Does it seem sensible to take an already successful ASL licensed, > > community developed piece of software by an already successful > > open source developer and force it into a somewhat beta status by > > making it go through the incubator "just because that is the way > > things are done"? > > The Incubator's purpose is to ensure that projects coming into the ASF > > - are legally clean, > - that their communities are healthy, > - and that they follow basic ASF policies/procedures. > > In my opinion, some projects are spending too long in the Incubator because > they aren't focusing on getting out. Also, define too long. I think that an external project* coming to the ASF has quite a lot of stuff to process. Getting out within a month would surprise me. *) As in, no affilliation with the ASF, no ASF committers there at all, etc. > If a project is a successful, ASF license, community-developed piece of > software, then it need not stay long in the Incubator. However, ASF > projects are supposed to be developed by communities, because it is > important that the project survive beyond the interests of any particular > participant. That is why two of the purposes for Incubation are to ensure > that there is a healthy developing COMMUNITY, and that it is following basic > ASF policies. > > Cocoon's Lenya project and XML's XMLBeans project are far from "beta > status." And the same can be said for SpamAssassin. The SA crowd is cool to work with. They are making an effort to get the steps done to become a full ASF project. I remember a comment from one of them about incubation being more useful then he originally thought. That made me smile. > As noted by multiple projects in the Incubator: "Incubation is > required of all newly accepted projects until a further review indicates > that the infrastructure, communications, and decision making process have > stabilized in a manner consistent with other successful ASF projects. While > incubation status is not necessarily a reflection of the completeness or > stability of the code, it does indicate that the project has yet to be fully > endorsed by the ASF." > > Endorsement by the ASF is based upon with the belief that a project's IP is > clean, and that it has developed a healthy community that will ensure its > long term viability. We incubate projects to ensure those things, not for > ceremony or "just because that is the way things are done." +1. Sander - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > > Unrelated to whether or not we would use it, I think that blojsom could be a > > very nice ASF project. From what I have seen of it, I'd support its entry > > to the Incubator. > Does it seem sensible to take an already successful ASL licensed, > community developed piece of software by an already successful > open source developer and force it into a somewhat beta status by > making it go through the incubator "just because that is the way > things are done"? The Incubator's purpose is to ensure that projects coming into the ASF - are legally clean, - that their communities are healthy, - and that they follow basic ASF policies/procedures. In my opinion, some projects are spending too long in the Incubator because they aren't focusing on getting out. If a project is a successful, ASF license, community-developed piece of software, then it need not stay long in the Incubator. However, ASF projects are supposed to be developed by communities, because it is important that the project survive beyond the interests of any particular participant. That is why two of the purposes for Incubation are to ensure that there is a healthy developing COMMUNITY, and that it is following basic ASF policies. Cocoon's Lenya project and XML's XMLBeans project are far from "beta status." As noted by multiple projects in the Incubator: "Incubation is required of all newly accepted projects until a further review indicates that the infrastructure, communications, and decision making process have stabilized in a manner consistent with other successful ASF projects. While incubation status is not necessarily a reflection of the completeness or stability of the code, it does indicate that the project has yet to be fully endorsed by the ASF." Endorsement by the ASF is based upon with the belief that a project's IP is clean, and that it has developed a healthy community that will ensure its long term viability. We incubate projects to ensure those things, not for ceremony or "just because that is the way things are done." --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
Quoting "Noel J. Bergman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Tetsuya, > > > Ceremony. I suspect it that even such a nice community has to > > be baptized once. (one day or less) > > Legitimatization, in order to keep *consistency* in a big > > and social community. To make it orthodox. > > No, Incubation has nothing to do with pomp and circumstance. > > --- Noel > So if it's not a formality that all new ASF projects should undergo, who decides if a project should be incubated or if it can go directly to being a regular project? -- Dave Brondsema http://www.brondsema.net - personal http://www.splike.com - programming - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
Tetsuya, > Ceremony. I suspect it that even such a nice community has to > be baptized once. (one day or less) > Legitimatization, in order to keep *consistency* in a big > and social community. To make it orthodox. No, Incubation has nothing to do with pomp and circumstance. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 16:13:31 -0500 Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > Does it seem sensible to take an already successful ASL licensed, > community developed piece of software by an already successful open > source developer and force it into a somewhat beta status by making it > go through the incubator "just because that is the way things are done"? Ceremony. I suspect it that even such a nice community has to be baptized once. (one day or less) Legitimatization, in order to keep *consistency* in a big and social community. To make it orthodox. Maybe you can record/memorize these: "XYZ project received baptism in incubator-- DD Mon GMT-0500." "XYZ project was welcomed to apache community -- DD+1 Mon GMT-0500." If such a baptism would be taken place within "24 hours", nobody would feel the sense of anti-"freedom". There might be no conflict (do hope). Happiness & Peace i do love such a happiness ... The point is ... "24 hours" Thank you for reading. - Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.terra-intl.com/ http://www.apache.org/~tetsuya/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
> Unrelated to whether or not we would use it, I think that blojsom could be a > very nice ASF project. From what I have seen of it, I'd support its entry > to the Incubator. > > --- Noel Hahaha...Suffer the incubator! *evil laugh* Does it seem sensible to take an already successful ASL licensed, community developed piece of software by an already successful open source developer and force it into a somewhat beta status by making it go through the incubator "just because that is the way things are done"? -andy -- Andrew C. Oliver http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI http://jakarta.apache.org/poi For Java and Excel, Got POI? The views expressed in this email are those of the author and are almost definitely not shared by the Apache Software Foundation, its board or its general membership. In fact they probably most definitively disagree with everything espoused in the above email. > From: "Noel J. Bergman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: community@apache.org > Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 21:35:04 -0500 > To: > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs > >> It is possible that he'd be willing to [bring blojsom] to the incubator. >> It already has a very active community. Its probably bordering on >> becoming a "standard" just because Roller tends to take Blojsom's code. > > Unrelated to whether or not we would use it, I think that blojsom could be a > very nice ASF project. From what I have seen of it, I'd support its entry > to the Incubator. > > --- Noel > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
On 8 Jan 2004, at 19:38, Ted Leung wrote: Next someone will insist that this has to go through the incubator. LOL -- Stefano. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 15:40:29 -0500 Noel J. Bergman wrote: > At least two projects, WS (http://ws.apache.org/blog/) and POI > (http://nagoya.apache.org/poi/news/), already have project blogs, although > using different technologies. Probably you can count this in, too: http://javatapestry.blogspot.com/ ... Cool. :) - Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International, Inc. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.terra-intl.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
> It is possible that he'd be willing to [bring blojsom] to the incubator. > It already has a very active community. Its probably bordering on > becoming a "standard" just because Roller tends to take Blojsom's code. Unrelated to whether or not we would use it, I think that blojsom could be a very nice ASF project. From what I have seen of it, I'd support its entry to the Incubator. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
It is a good idea. That being said the author of Blojsom (http://blojsom.sourceforge.net/index.html) is a rabid ASL/BSD license freak. The structure of Blojsom is such that it could possibly be sticky glue for other technologies, meaning writing a Cocoon plugin for it shouldn't be too hard. It is possible that he'd be willing to undergo the water torture and pickling process that is the incubator. It already has a very active community. Its probably bordering on becoming a "standard" just because Roller tends to take Blojsom's code. Secondly, it is *simple*, file-based and borders on moronically simple (like bloxsom). Lastly, it seems like http://blojsom.sourceforge.net/plugins/index.html someone could write a subversion plugin and then you could even use it to hold the content. Having this form of aggregate project news is a pretty sensible step. It also reduces some of the overhead in constructing the "Apache Newsletter", increases the chance that our release/project news will be syndicated across the web and other various benefits. Lastly, I can vouch for the performance. I was slashdotted awhile back and blojsom lived. At the same time, the radio and roller blogs which were also slashdotted went down. In fact, my server CPU usage never topped 10% above normal (and my server is a PIII-733mhz running Linux!) and the site stayed responsive. Its only slightly more overhead than html so hardware is really not a concern. -Andy -- Andrew C. Oliver http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI http://jakarta.apache.org/poi For Java and Excel, Got POI? The views expressed in this email are those of the author and are almost definitely not shared by the Apache Software Foundation, its board or its general membership. In fact they probably most definitively disagree with everything espoused in the above email. > From: "Noel J. Bergman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: community@apache.org > Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 15:40:29 -0500 > To: > Subject: RE: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs > >> Ok, I'm quite happy to register and host planetapache.org; whether or >> not we want to point it at minotaur is more or less irrelevant I think, >> but I'm open to argument either way. > > :-) > > Personally, a useful application of this technology would be to provide > projects with a means to publish news in a format that we could aggregate on > the site, and perhaps make use of for the newsletter. A blog and content > syndicator for use as an internal ASF news service would be a good thing. > At least two projects, WS (http://ws.apache.org/blog/) and POI > (http://nagoya.apache.org/poi/news/), already have project blogs, although > using different technologies. I would certainly support project blogs using > some standard technology. > > I'd like to see us eat our own dogfood, and encourage projects to contribute > that way. We could see what projects like Cocoon/Lenya, Jetspeed/WSRP4J, > etc., might offer in combining their technologies in some manner. > > --- Noel > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
Ben Hyde wrote: > Well it's all well and good until somebody get's hurt. For example > Ken's posting about how his Forsythia is blooming and meanwhile it's > -1F here and I gather up in NH there are places that are -38F. How do > you think that makes me feel? Hot and bothered, that's how! - ben well, i just took some photographs of that same bloomin' forsythia -- with its blossoms covered with snow. so don't feel so bad. stupid shrub. it's *got* to be part azalea. http://Ken.Coar.Org/gallery/Flowers2003-12/dscn2503 and following; click on the pic for the full 1600x1200 version. -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/ Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/ "Millennium hand and shrimp!" - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
Well it's all well and good until somebody get's hurt. For example Ken's posting about how his Forsythia is blooming and meanwhile it's -1F here and I gather up in NH there are places that are -38F. How do you think that makes me feel? Hot and bothered, that's how! - ben On Jan 9, 2004, at 9:09 AM, Rich Bowen wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 9 Jan 2004, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote: Brian Behlendorf wrote: But pulling back, perhaps a way to address Noel's concern is to have this aggregator only pull content from the RSS feeds that the blogger marks as somehow being Apache-related. RSS allows arbitrary metadata, right? Is there an easy way to mark a post in most blogger tools as "Apache-related" or something? That way someone can rant on and on about their favorite political subject in their blog, but meanwhile only their Apache-related posts get aggregated at the ASF's site. probably not if the rss feed url is scraped from elsewhere. however, if committers can specify particular feed urls, it might be workable -- at least for those people who categorise. for instance, to get the apache-related articles from my log, the feed url i http://Ken.Coar.Org/burrow/index.rss? category=Apache&comments=true&words=all that won't get you the articles about my neverending war with the grey death -- unless they also mention apache somewhere and i marked them as such. i'm pretty sure this is fairly common practice. I tend to think that those things add to the general charm of doing this sort of thing at all. And if I didn't get to read about the grey death, how would I get to laugh until coffee comes out of my nose? Hmm? - -- Rich Bowen - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did I have the dream, or did the dream have me? (Rush - Nocturne) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE//rYTXP03+sx4yJMRAqALAKDSUISo6VLfdIUvo/rOEClMsFAr0wCaAyMP YWcdxYYzQuw/thCBb3+KqH0= =o7VC -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 9 Jan 2004, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote: > Brian Behlendorf wrote: > > > > But pulling back, perhaps a way to address Noel's concern is to have this > > aggregator only pull content from the RSS feeds that the blogger marks as > > somehow being Apache-related. RSS allows arbitrary metadata, right? Is > > there an easy way to mark a post in most blogger tools as "Apache-related" > > or something? That way someone can rant on and on about their favorite > > political subject in their blog, but meanwhile only their Apache-related > > posts get aggregated at the ASF's site. > > probably not if the rss feed url is scraped from elsewhere. however, if > committers can specify particular feed urls, it might be workable -- at > least for those people who categorise. for instance, to get the > apache-related > articles from my log, the feed url i > > http://Ken.Coar.Org/burrow/index.rss?category=Apache&comments=true&words=all > > that won't get you the articles about my neverending war with the grey > death -- unless they also mention apache somewhere and i marked them as > such. > > i'm pretty sure this is fairly common practice. I tend to think that those things add to the general charm of doing this sort of thing at all. And if I didn't get to read about the grey death, how would I get to laugh until coffee comes out of my nose? Hmm? - -- Rich Bowen - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did I have the dream, or did the dream have me? (Rush - Nocturne) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE//rYTXP03+sx4yJMRAqALAKDSUISo6VLfdIUvo/rOEClMsFAr0wCaAyMP YWcdxYYzQuw/thCBb3+KqH0= =o7VC -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
Brian Behlendorf wrote: > > But pulling back, perhaps a way to address Noel's concern is to have this > aggregator only pull content from the RSS feeds that the blogger marks as > somehow being Apache-related. RSS allows arbitrary metadata, right? Is > there an easy way to mark a post in most blogger tools as "Apache-related" > or something? That way someone can rant on and on about their favorite > political subject in their blog, but meanwhile only their Apache-related > posts get aggregated at the ASF's site. probably not if the rss feed url is scraped from elsewhere. however, if committers can specify particular feed urls, it might be workable -- at least for those people who categorise. for instance, to get the apache-related articles from my log, the feed url i http://Ken.Coar.Org/burrow/index.rss?category=Apache&comments=true&words=all that won't get you the articles about my neverending war with the grey death -- unless they also mention apache somewhere and i marked them as such. i'm pretty sure this is fairly common practice. -- #kenP-)} Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/ Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/ "Millennium hand and shrimp!" - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
--On Thursday, January 8, 2004 3:36 PM -0500 Tim O'Brien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This isn't to say that this is a bad idea. I think this is a **great** idea, but this is also something that could be done on someone's personal hardware resources. +1. -- justin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
Ted Leung wrote: > Um, there's lots of standard technology for blogs. > I did not volunteer to be a guinea pig for another > let's (re)invent a CMS project. > We can switch over when something is working, but I want > to have something that works today. Well, of course. The second paragraph was not a prerequisite for the first. It was an observation that we have various publishing, CMS and portal technologies, and that it would be nice, as a general rule, to eat our own dogfood if the Contributors wanted to make them suitable for our use. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
On Jan 8, 2004, at 12:40 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Ok, I'm quite happy to register and host planetapache.org; whether or not we want to point it at minotaur is more or less irrelevant I think, but I'm open to argument either way. :-) Personally, a useful application of this technology would be to provide projects with a means to publish news in a format that we could aggregate on the site, and perhaps make use of for the newsletter. A blog and content syndicator for use as an internal ASF news service would be a good thing. At least two projects, WS (http://ws.apache.org/blog/) and POI (http://nagoya.apache.org/poi/news/), already have project blogs, although using different technologies. I would certainly support project blogs using some standard technology. I'd like to see us eat our own dogfood, and encourage projects to contribute that way. We could see what projects like Cocoon/Lenya, Jetspeed/WSRP4J, etc., might offer in combining their technologies in some manner. Um, there's lots of standard technology for blogs. None of it was invented here. I suggested and volunteered to work on something that would let us *catch up* to what (supposedly slow moving) Debian, KDE, et al are doing. I did not volunteer to be a guinea pig for another let's (re)invent a CMS project. If we want to do that in the background, that's fine. We can switch over when something is working, but I want to have something that works today. We've already been through this with Velocity, StyleBook, Cocoon, and Forrest. The xml.apache.org site was a slow moving dog because we kept waiting for a CMS system to get done. Ted - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 El jueves, 8 ener, 2004, a las 21:41 Europe/Madrid, Ben Hyde escribió: I like the planetapache.org approach. It mimize the coordination costs of getting something up and running. I'd encourage putting any stuff into the committer repository so you can parasite on the infrastructure to allow everybody to pitch in who cares to and just publish the results to the planetapache thang. If it helps, feel free to stick someplace in krell, or not :-). If you don't want to use perl in krell just, that's cool; I think we already have some Java. I'd love to see a 'project' that uses 7-12 different languages ;-) I know: "Unix is more a world of small gods. Let's hope we can keep the Internet that way." http://enthusiasm.cozy.org/archives/000162.html - ben :-) Regards, Santiago -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (Darwin) iD8DBQE//cJ1ZAeG2a2/nhoRAvkTAKCXNAuXi3YheOgbaIk084Cu8MPeNACfWcGt otmvdln3jGUBKSex5LKw+9Q= =XMrd -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
I like the planetapache.org approach. It mimize the coordination costs of getting something up and running. I'd encourage putting any stuff into the committer repository so you can parasite on the infrastructure to allow everybody to pitch in who cares to and just publish the results to the planetapache thang. If it helps, feel free to stick someplace in krell, or not :-). If you don't want to use perl in krell just, that's cool; I think we already have some Java. I'd love to see a 'project' that uses 7-12 different languages ;-) - ben On Jan 8, 2004, at 2:15 PM, Ted Leung wrote: Thom already registered planetapache.org and volunteered to host if. If the ASF changes is mind and wants to host it, I'm sure that could be arranged. On Jan 8, 2004, at 11:11 AM, Sander Temme wrote: Let's just register planetapache.org and be done with it. +1 +1 Would the Foundation handle that, and host it, or would that have to be a private initiative? S. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.temme.net/sander/ PGP FP: 51B4 8727 466A 0BC3 69F4 B7B8 B2BE BC40 1529 24AF - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ted Leung Blog: http://www.sauria.com/blog PGP Fingerprint: 1003 7870 251F FA71 A59A CEE3 BEBA 2B87 F5FC 4B42 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
> Ok, I'm quite happy to register and host planetapache.org; whether or > not we want to point it at minotaur is more or less irrelevant I think, > but I'm open to argument either way. :-) Personally, a useful application of this technology would be to provide projects with a means to publish news in a format that we could aggregate on the site, and perhaps make use of for the newsletter. A blog and content syndicator for use as an internal ASF news service would be a good thing. At least two projects, WS (http://ws.apache.org/blog/) and POI (http://nagoya.apache.org/poi/news/), already have project blogs, although using different technologies. I would certainly support project blogs using some standard technology. I'd like to see us eat our own dogfood, and encourage projects to contribute that way. We could see what projects like Cocoon/Lenya, Jetspeed/WSRP4J, etc., might offer in combining their technologies in some manner. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
> > Many other open source projects, including Debian, the Linux Kernel > > developers, and Mono, are aggregating the RSS feeds of their blogging > > contributors and putting them up on a web site. This is something > > that would be good for the ASF to do as well Everything that has to do with official ASF needs some sort of official corporate oversight. Aggregating personal blogs, seems like something that contradicts that idea. This isn't to say that this is a bad idea. I think this is a **great** idea, but this is also something that could be done on someone's personal hardware resources. If someone created an unofficial aggregation of Apache feeds, I don't think anyone would object at all. (And, as an added bonus, we wouldn't have to listen to the same old jerks debate this to death.) -- Tim O'Brien - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
Brian Behlendorf wrote: > Noel J. Bergman wrote: > > We have so far voted to not create an ASF blog because we do not want the > > perception of the ASF approving the content of the blogs. > I missed out on that vote, but FWIW, I have no problem with an aggregator, > or even a hosted blogger for ASF committers; it's at the same level as > http://www.apache.org/~committer/. I was pretty sure that I recalled this whole debate from a year ago, so I checked. It was related to creating [community|people].apache.org. You might be shocked to hear that the thread consumes more than 5% of the entire community@ archives. That surprised me, too. The majority is in http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]& from=316252&to=316252&count=169&by=thread&paged=false, plus http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]&msg No=873. Justin expressed his concerns in http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]&msg No=805, in a reply to Nicola Ken, who in turn had said that he though it was OK because "I don't think we are talking about complete personal websites with blogs and such, with rants and honeymoon pictures, but about some pages that explain what the person does, who he is, and not much more." Justin later made a proposal about what he did think was acceptable: http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]&msg No=808. My earlier comments came from what I recalled as the consensus from that discussion. The gist of it was that having relatively bland and ASF specific content on an ASF page was fine, and that people should use external URLs to reference their more personal content, which is what the Wiki has: a list of external URLs. That was the compromise. In any event, opinions may change, but I did remember us going over this territory 13 months ago. Should I apologize for having a good memory? ;-) When Thom suggested planetapache.org on IRC, I was +1 for the idea, since that doesn't appear to conflict with the concerns that were raised a year ago. In fact, if everyone who didn't want truly personal content on an apache.org domain last year is happy that planetapache.org is sufficiently disjoint then, as far as I'm concerned, it could even host personal pages, rather than just aggregate. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
Thom already registered planetapache.org and volunteered to host if. If the ASF changes is mind and wants to host it, I'm sure that could be arranged. On Jan 8, 2004, at 11:11 AM, Sander Temme wrote: Let's just register planetapache.org and be done with it. +1 +1 Would the Foundation handle that, and host it, or would that have to be a private initiative? S. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.temme.net/sander/ PGP FP: 51B4 8727 466A 0BC3 69F4 B7B8 B2BE BC40 1529 24AF - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ted Leung Blog: http://www.sauria.com/blog PGP Fingerprint: 1003 7870 251F FA71 A59A CEE3 BEBA 2B87 F5FC 4B42 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
On Thu, 8 Jan 2004, Sander Temme wrote: > >> Let's just register planetapache.org and be done with it. > > > > +1 > > +1 > > Would the Foundation handle that, and host it, or would that have to be a > private initiative? Eh - the question is more - does the Apache community want the Foundation to handle that :-) Dw. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
On Thu, 2004-01-08 at 20:11, Sander Temme wrote: > >> Let's just register planetapache.org and be done with it. > > > > +1 > > +1 > > Would the Foundation handle that, and host it, or would that have to be a > private initiative? Didn't thom already do it? Sander - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
>> Let's just register planetapache.org and be done with it. > > +1 +1 Would the Foundation handle that, and host it, or would that have to be a private initiative? S. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.temme.net/sander/ PGP FP: 51B4 8727 466A 0BC3 69F4 B7B8 B2BE BC40 1529 24AF - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
On Jan 8, 2004, at 8:01 PM, Brian McCallister wrote: On Jan 8, 2004, at 1:38 PM, Ted Leung wrote: Let's just register planetapache.org and be done with it. +1 Next someone will insist that this has to go through the incubator. It will be easier to just do it at planetapache.org and offer to aggregate people's blogs. Apache is made up of individuals, after all. If there is a strong community around it, we can incubate it and ask for TLP status then ;-) I'm game. I was planning to do the same for the blogs hosted on http://blogs.cocoondev.org/, BTW. -- Steven Noelshttp://outerthought.org/ Outerthought - Open Source Java & XMLAn Orixo Member Read my weblog athttp://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ stevenn at outerthought.orgstevenn at apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
On Jan 8, 2004, at 1:38 PM, Ted Leung wrote: Let's just register planetapache.org and be done with it. +1 Next someone will insist that this has to go through the incubator. It will be easier to just do it at planetapache.org and offer to aggregate people's blogs. Apache is made up of individuals, after all. If there is a strong community around it, we can incubate it and ask for TLP status then ;-) -Brian - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
On Jan 8, 2004, at 8:34 AM, Thom May wrote: On 8 Jan 2004, at 16:26, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Many other open source projects, including Debian, the Linux Kernel developers, and Mono, are aggregating the RSS feeds of their blogging contributors and putting them up on a web site. This is something that would be good for the ASF to do as well We have so far voted to not create an ASF blog because we do not want the perception of the ASF approving the content of the blogs. This does not seem any different to me. I understand that some people feel that we are just "syndicating" content from elsewhere, but that is a difference with little distinction in the mind of the reader. As I said to you on IRC, I obviously have more faith that the average person who hits apache.org isn't completely stupid... I would be -1 for aggregating external content on an official ASF site. Disclaimers or no disclaimers, it is going to be perceived as ASF content. Having it aggregated on an unofficial, ancillary, site would be OK with me, if someone wanted to provide that resource. Ok, I'm quite happy to register and host planetapache.org; whether or not we want to point it at minotaur is more or less irrelevant I think, but I'm open to argument either way. I don't know about Thom, but I'm tired of arguing the political and bureaucratic issues on stuff like this, and I debated whether to even raise the idea because I knew it was going spend weeks in committee. Let's just register planetapache.org and be done with it. To me it smacks of arrogance for us to believe that we are somehow more legitimate that good projects like Debian, Mono, KDE, and others and that somehow our holy image will be besmirched by some loud mouth on a blog. Next someone will insist that this has to go through the incubator. -Thom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ted Leung Blog: http://www.sauria.com/blog PGP Fingerprint: 1003 7870 251F FA71 A59A CEE3 BEBA 2B87 F5FC 4B42 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
On Thu, 8 Jan 2004, Noel J. Bergman wrote: > We have so far voted to not create an ASF blog because we do not want the > perception of the ASF approving the content of the blogs. This does not > seem any different to me. I understand that some people feel that we are > just "syndicating" content from elsewhere, but that is a difference with > little distinction in the mind of the reader. I missed out on that vote, but FWIW, I have no problem with an aggregator, or even a hosted blogger for ASF committers; it's at the same level as http://www.apache.org/~committer/. Disclaimers suffice. No policing needed, though if someone posts another example from www.goatse.cx, I think the infrastructure@ team reserves the right to step in. But pulling back, perhaps a way to address Noel's concern is to have this aggregator only pull content from the RSS feeds that the blogger marks as somehow being Apache-related. RSS allows arbitrary metadata, right? Is there an easy way to mark a post in most blogger tools as "Apache-related" or something? That way someone can rant on and on about their favorite political subject in their blog, but meanwhile only their Apache-related posts get aggregated at the ASF's site. Brian - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
On Jan 8, 2004, at 8:26 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote: all we have now is the wiki page The difference is that the Wiki page simply lists personal pages for members. If there is an implied coupling, it is a much weaker coupling that aggregating the content. I think that this is a bogus argument. If you don't want to be "controversial" and only have sanitized content, then you should remove the wiki page. --- Noel Ted Leung Blog: http://www.sauria.com/blog PGP Fingerprint: 1003 7870 251F FA71 A59A CEE3 BEBA 2B87 F5FC 4B42 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
If we want an apache blog aggregator that is clearly NOT apache.org,
the apacheblogs.* domains are still available and the
[foo]blogs.[com|org|net] naming convention for aggregators is pretty
common.
-Brian
On Jan 8, 2004, at 11:24 AM, Ben Hyde wrote:
Cool.
Krell already scraps the rss feed urls if any appears in the resource
the committer points to via committers: urls.txt; it looks for an link
tag like this one:
http://enthusiasm.cozy.org//index.rdf"; />
use lib ('./lib');
use Community;
my $community = Community->load("tmp/locations.cdb");
for $person ( values %$community ) { print $person->{uid}, " ",
$persion->{rss}, "\n" }
- ben
ps. Additional fun is standing by via tags like this:
http://www.cozy.org/ben/foaf.rdf"/>
pps. Note that committer privacy is left up to them, if they reveal
something in the url they give krell then krell will reveal it to
others.
On Jan 8, 2004, at 9:46 AM, Santiago Gala wrote:
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Hash: SHA1
El jueves, 8 ener, 2004, a las 11:49 Europe/Madrid, Thom May escribió:
On 8 Jan 2004, at 7:21, Ted Leung wrote:
Many other open source projects, including Debian, the Linux Kernel
developers, and Mono, are aggregating the RSS feeds of their
blogging contributors and putting them up on a web site. This is
something that would be good for the ASF to do as well, as all we
have now is the wiki page
(http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApachePeopleBlogs)
I'm willing to find out if there is software being used so that we
don't have to reinvent the wheel.I'm willing to maintain it and
happy to have help if others are interested. Infrastructure folks,
do you see any problems?
I was also thinking about doing that. The software that Planet
Debian http://people.debian.org/~keybuk/planet/ and Planet Gnome
http://planet.gnome.org/ are using is a massively hacked up version
of spycroll.
I'll ask Scott or Jeff for the source they're using if other people
think this is good idea?
And don't forget that krell (krell subdirectory in the commmitters
cvs module) is already doing some inference about what people is
publishing RSS in the address listed in cvs:committers:urls.txt,
which looks like a good way to (self)maintain the listings.
FOAF, though, looks like a better framework for publishing this kind
of info. I'm willing also to look around the issues, and I know (more
or less) the krell module.
Regards,
Santiago
-Thom
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Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
Cool.
Krell already scraps the rss feed urls if any appears in the resource
the committer points to via committers: urls.txt; it looks for an link
tag like this one:
http://enthusiasm.cozy.org//index.rdf"; />
use lib ('./lib');
use Community;
my $community = Community->load("tmp/locations.cdb");
for $person ( values %$community ) { print $person->{uid}, " ",
$persion->{rss}, "\n" }
- ben
ps. Additional fun is standing by via tags like this:
http://www.cozy.org/ben/foaf.rdf"/>
pps. Note that committer privacy is left up to them, if they reveal
something in the url they give krell then krell will reveal it to
others.
On Jan 8, 2004, at 9:46 AM, Santiago Gala wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
El jueves, 8 ener, 2004, a las 11:49 Europe/Madrid, Thom May escribió:
On 8 Jan 2004, at 7:21, Ted Leung wrote:
Many other open source projects, including Debian, the Linux Kernel
developers, and Mono, are aggregating the RSS feeds of their
blogging contributors and putting them up on a web site. This is
something that would be good for the ASF to do as well, as all we
have now is the wiki page
(http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApachePeopleBlogs)
I'm willing to find out if there is software being used so that we
don't have to reinvent the wheel.I'm willing to maintain it and
happy to have help if others are interested. Infrastructure folks,
do you see any problems?
I was also thinking about doing that. The software that Planet Debian
http://people.debian.org/~keybuk/planet/ and Planet Gnome
http://planet.gnome.org/ are using is a massively hacked up version
of spycroll.
I'll ask Scott or Jeff for the source they're using if other people
think this is good idea?
And don't forget that krell (krell subdirectory in the commmitters cvs
module) is already doing some inference about what people is
publishing RSS in the address listed in cvs:committers:urls.txt, which
looks like a good way to (self)maintain the listings.
FOAF, though, looks like a better framework for publishing this kind
of info. I'm willing also to look around the issues, and I know (more
or less) the krell module.
Regards,
Santiago
-Thom
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Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
On 8 Jan 2004, at 16:26, Noel J. Bergman wrote: Many other open source projects, including Debian, the Linux Kernel developers, and Mono, are aggregating the RSS feeds of their blogging contributors and putting them up on a web site. This is something that would be good for the ASF to do as well We have so far voted to not create an ASF blog because we do not want the perception of the ASF approving the content of the blogs. This does not seem any different to me. I understand that some people feel that we are just "syndicating" content from elsewhere, but that is a difference with little distinction in the mind of the reader. As I said to you on IRC, I obviously have more faith that the average person who hits apache.org isn't completely stupid... I would be -1 for aggregating external content on an official ASF site. Disclaimers or no disclaimers, it is going to be perceived as ASF content. Having it aggregated on an unofficial, ancillary, site would be OK with me, if someone wanted to provide that resource. Ok, I'm quite happy to register and host planetapache.org; whether or not we want to point it at minotaur is more or less irrelevant I think, but I'm open to argument either way. -Thom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
> Many other open source projects, including Debian, the Linux Kernel > developers, and Mono, are aggregating the RSS feeds of their blogging > contributors and putting them up on a web site. This is something > that would be good for the ASF to do as well We have so far voted to not create an ASF blog because we do not want the perception of the ASF approving the content of the blogs. This does not seem any different to me. I understand that some people feel that we are just "syndicating" content from elsewhere, but that is a difference with little distinction in the mind of the reader. Who is going to police the syndicated content? Some people want to be controversial on their blogs. Are we trying to be controversial? Are our agendas their agendas? Newspapers, TV stations, etc. do not blindly syndicate content. Not only are they selective about what they pull from the wire services, but for things that they have contracted, they will still reject content, such as some comic strip that they deem inappropriate. Preception is reality, and the normal perception that someone who publishes content, regardless of authorship, approves it. I would be -1 for aggregating external content on an official ASF site. Disclaimers or no disclaimers, it is going to be perceived as ASF content. Having it aggregated on an unofficial, ancillary, site would be OK with me, if someone wanted to provide that resource. > all we have now is the wiki page The difference is that the Wiki page simply lists personal pages for members. If there is an implied coupling, it is a much weaker coupling that aggregating the content. --- Noel - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 El jueves, 8 ener, 2004, a las 11:49 Europe/Madrid, Thom May escribió: On 8 Jan 2004, at 7:21, Ted Leung wrote: Many other open source projects, including Debian, the Linux Kernel developers, and Mono, are aggregating the RSS feeds of their blogging contributors and putting them up on a web site. This is something that would be good for the ASF to do as well, as all we have now is the wiki page (http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApachePeopleBlogs) I'm willing to find out if there is software being used so that we don't have to reinvent the wheel.I'm willing to maintain it and happy to have help if others are interested. Infrastructure folks, do you see any problems? I was also thinking about doing that. The software that Planet Debian http://people.debian.org/~keybuk/planet/ and Planet Gnome http://planet.gnome.org/ are using is a massively hacked up version of spycroll. I'll ask Scott or Jeff for the source they're using if other people think this is good idea? And don't forget that krell (krell subdirectory in the commmitters cvs module) is already doing some inference about what people is publishing RSS in the address listed in cvs:committers:urls.txt, which looks like a good way to (self)maintain the listings. FOAF, though, looks like a better framework for publishing this kind of info. I'm willing also to look around the issues, and I know (more or less) the krell module. Regards, Santiago -Thom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (Darwin) iD8DBQE//W1eZAeG2a2/nhoRAmB3AJ0SFDCqeqffh8uhmnnblzUf+3LpjgCdEM58 ng+uNB67k2g/Bi+cR6sUJdU= =o5zJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
On Thu, 8 Jan 2004, Leo Simons wrote: > > Many other open source projects, including Debian, the Linux Kernel > > developers, and Mono, are aggregating the RSS feeds of their blogging > > contributors and putting them up on a web site. This is something that > > would be good for the ASF to do as well, as all we have now is the wiki > > page (http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApachePeopleBlogs) > > I'm willing to find out if there is software being used so that we don't > > have to reinvent the wheel.I'm willing to maintain it and happy to > > have help if others are interested. Infrastructure folks, do you see > > any problems? Yeah, this sounds like a pretty nifty idea. Can Amphetadesk be run in "infrastructure" mode? -- Oh I have slipped the surly bonds of earth And danced the sky on laughter-silvered wings --High Flight (John Gillespie Magee) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
I would love to see such a service :D Ted Leung wrote: Many other open source projects, including Debian, the Linux Kernel developers, and Mono, are aggregating the RSS feeds of their blogging contributors and putting them up on a web site. This is something that would be good for the ASF to do as well, as all we have now is the wiki page (http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApachePeopleBlogs) I'm willing to find out if there is software being used so that we don't have to reinvent the wheel.I'm willing to maintain it and happy to have help if others are interested. Infrastructure folks, do you see any problems? -- cheers, - Leo Simons --- Weblog -- http://leosimons.com/ IoC Component Glue -- http://jicarilla.org/ Articles & Opinions -- http://articles.leosimons.com/ --- "We started off trying to set up a small anarchist community, but people wouldn't obey the rules." -- Alan Bennett - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
I like the idea =) -Brian On Jan 8, 2004, at 5:49 AM, Thom May wrote: On 8 Jan 2004, at 7:21, Ted Leung wrote: Many other open source projects, including Debian, the Linux Kernel developers, and Mono, are aggregating the RSS feeds of their blogging contributors and putting them up on a web site. This is something that would be good for the ASF to do as well, as all we have now is the wiki page (http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApachePeopleBlogs) I'm willing to find out if there is software being used so that we don't have to reinvent the wheel.I'm willing to maintain it and happy to have help if others are interested. Infrastructure folks, do you see any problems? I was also thinking about doing that. The software that Planet Debian http://people.debian.org/~keybuk/planet/ and Planet Gnome http://planet.gnome.org/ are using is a massively hacked up version of spycroll. I'll ask Scott or Jeff for the source they're using if other people think this is good idea? -Thom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single Location for syndicated Apache blogs
On 8 Jan 2004, at 7:21, Ted Leung wrote: Many other open source projects, including Debian, the Linux Kernel developers, and Mono, are aggregating the RSS feeds of their blogging contributors and putting them up on a web site. This is something that would be good for the ASF to do as well, as all we have now is the wiki page (http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApachePeopleBlogs) I'm willing to find out if there is software being used so that we don't have to reinvent the wheel.I'm willing to maintain it and happy to have help if others are interested. Infrastructure folks, do you see any problems? I was also thinking about doing that. The software that Planet Debian http://people.debian.org/~keybuk/planet/ and Planet Gnome http://planet.gnome.org/ are using is a massively hacked up version of spycroll. I'll ask Scott or Jeff for the source they're using if other people think this is good idea? -Thom - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
