Re: [CGUYS] Will Obama delay switch to HD?

[Brian Jones]

I got mine last year... went to the store all sold out.
Later, I found one, with no remote control.  I decided to wait.
Finally found one I wanted, pulled out the coupon, discovered it had 
expired.
Went to coupon website... Filled out forms again... told I already had my 
coupons (BUT THEY HAVE EXPIRED!).
Website said I could appeal, but there is no more money to reissue me a 
coupon now.  I have appealed, no response yet.


I think this is the issue that Obama is addressing...  The program should 
have been properly funded (or not offered at all).
The governemt forced the issue, so I suppose that they should cover the 
consumer costs for screwing with the free market system.

 - Brian



- Original Message - 
From: "Tony B" 



Let's get this over with already. There was no shortage of coupons at
all this time LAST year, or before that when we first started talking
about it. No matter how far you move the deadline, some people are
always going to wait until the last minute.



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Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review

[katan]

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:30:18 -0500, Tom Piwowar wrote:

>A long, thorough, and clear-eyed review of Windows 7 worth reading...
>
>"Microsoft's goal with Windows 7 is to lift Vista's derailed train and 
>put it back on the tracks. Windows 7 itself is internally called Windows 
>6.1, essentially Vista Service Pack 2 (Microsoft is also preparing a

Wow! I'll bet Apple paid more than $.67 for *that* "review." Hmm.
AplleInsider trashing a Microsoft OS. Whodda thunk?

--
Katan

Welcome to ObamaNation!

"Our long national nightmare is over."
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Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review

[Chris Dunford]

> A long, thorough, and clear-eyed review of Windows 7 worth reading...

A clear-eyed review from AppleInsider.  Right. You can practically smell the
objectivity in this sentence: "Microsoft has to herd more PC users into the
latest version of Windows ... so it can actively leverage its monopoly
position to prevent competition" Sentences like that are the hallmark of
an unbiased, clear-eyed review.

> Windows 7 itself is internally called Windows 6.1

This was explained from the gitgo. It has nothing to do with whether it's a
major or a minor release. It has everything to do with applications getting
version codes that they understand--a lesson learned when some apps got all
upset because Vista changed the major version number from 5 to 6 (yes,
stupid code in the apps). 

(Remember, by the way, that XP was version 5.1--but I don't recall anyone
saying that this was because it was really Windows 2000 SP2 or whatever.)

>> Microsoft's executives have made no secret of the fact 
>> that Windows 7 is an incremental improvement to Windows 
>> Vista, with CEO Steve Ballmer calling it "Windows Vista, 
>> a lot better," and saying, "Windows 7 is Windows Vista 
>> with cleanup in user interface [and] improvements in 
>> performance."
>>
> Unlike what we were recently told here...

Actually, that is pretty much exactly what we said. I look back and find
quotes from us WFBs like "7 by all reports is no departure at all from
Vista", "Win7 looks very much like Vista", "A lot of people are going to
look at it and have the initial impression, 'Oh, this is Vista'", and
"Seriously, it looks a lot like Vista. It's faster, and the organization is
better, but it is much more like Vista than XP."

> new "MinWin" kernel that Microsoft began talking about back in 
> 2003, [is] now being pushed off into the distant future

As Jeff points out, this is flat wrong.

There is, however, some pretty damning stuff in there. For example, 

"When Windows 7 arrives, it won't carry a long set of new features ... but
will instead aspire to meet the demands of users"  

Ouch! That one really hurts. Those Redmond guys, what were they thinking?


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Re: [CGUYS] Will Obama delay switch to HD?

[Ranbo]

Well, we seem intent on subsidizing everyone else these days; maybe they
could throw in the TV stations as well.  Sure someone could justify it as an
economic stimulus or needed subsidy.  Millions of dollars - chump change!

Randall

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Rev. Stewart Marshall <
popoz...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> That is in a nutshell what the problem is.
>
> However there is also another problem:
>
> Delaying the mandatory switch is going to cost TV stations millions of
> dollars as they will continue to have to double transmit. (many have been
> ramping up for this and have had two transmitters running, expensive)  Also
> the bandwidth that the police and emergency departments have been waiting
> for will not be freed up.
>
> So they enter in to realm many of us find ourselves in all the time.
>
> Damned if we do, and damned if we don't.
>
> Stewart
>
>
> At 09:55 PM 1/22/2009, you wrote:
>
>> Look, I admit to procrastinating on this (as I typically do, admittedly)
>> but
>> it seems like they are not really ready for this, for various reasons (see
>> the Post article in, I believe, yesterday's business section).  Running
>> out
>> of funding for the coupons is not the fault of those who waited. As
>> always,
>> those who will be most adversely affected are the poor, disabled and maybe
>> throw in those living in rural areas.  Those better off disproportionately
>> have Cable or HD tv, so no need for coupons and converter boxes.
>>
>> Randall
>>
>
> Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
> mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
> Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
> Ozark, AL  SL 82
>
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Will Obama delay switch to HD?

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Could it be that they had to find a way to spend all those dollars 
they accumulated by fining networks and TV stations for many a sundry reasons.


Stewart


At 10:24 PM 1/22/2009, you wrote:

I keep wondering why they used tax money for coupons in the first place.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Will Obama delay switch to HD?

[mike]

I keep wondering why they used tax money for coupons in the first place.

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 8:55 PM, Ranbo  wrote:

> Look, I admit to procrastinating on this (as I typically do, admittedly)
> but
> it seems like they are not really ready for this, for various reasons (see
> the Post article in, I believe, yesterday's business section).  Running out
> of funding for the coupons is not the fault of those who waited. As always,
> those who will be most adversely affected are the poor, disabled and maybe
> throw in those living in rural areas.  Those better off disproportionately
> have Cable or HD tv, so no need for coupons and converter boxes.
>
> Randall
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Tony B  wrote:
>
> > Let's get this over with already. There was no shortage of coupons at
> > all this time LAST year, or before that when we first started talking
> > about it. No matter how far you move the deadline, some people are
> > always going to wait until the last minute.
> >
> > In our neck of the woods it basically means people are going to lose
> > 90% of their channels, as the digital signals just won't penetrate up
> > here.
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Ranbo  wrote:
> > > Obama official said (during transition) they want a delay in converting
> > to
> > > HD tv because of various problems, including lack of funding for the
> > > coupons.  However FCC said (during transition) that delay would cause
> > more
> > > problems and the Feb 17 date should remain.  Anyone hear if Obama is
> > > planning or likely to delay this?  I'm hoping so, as don't have a
> > converter
> > > or coupon and coupon wait list is months, at least.
> > >
> > > BTW, if anyone here has any converter coupons they don't need I'd be
> most
> > > appreciative.  Or an extra converter box they'd sell cheap, if you live
> > > fairly close by (I'm in Chevy Chase).
> >
> >
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Re: [CGUYS] Will Obama delay switch to HD?

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

That is in a nutshell what the problem is.

However there is also another problem:

Delaying the mandatory switch is going to cost TV stations millions 
of dollars as they will continue to have to double transmit. (many 
have been ramping up for this and have had two transmitters running, 
expensive)  Also the bandwidth that the police and emergency 
departments have been waiting for will not be freed up.


So they enter in to realm many of us find ourselves in all the time.

Damned if we do, and damned if we don't.

Stewart


At 09:55 PM 1/22/2009, you wrote:

Look, I admit to procrastinating on this (as I typically do, admittedly) but
it seems like they are not really ready for this, for various reasons (see
the Post article in, I believe, yesterday's business section).  Running out
of funding for the coupons is not the fault of those who waited. As always,
those who will be most adversely affected are the poor, disabled and maybe
throw in those living in rural areas.  Those better off disproportionately
have Cable or HD tv, so no need for coupons and converter boxes.

Randall


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Will Obama delay switch to HD?

[Ranbo]

Look, I admit to procrastinating on this (as I typically do, admittedly) but
it seems like they are not really ready for this, for various reasons (see
the Post article in, I believe, yesterday's business section).  Running out
of funding for the coupons is not the fault of those who waited. As always,
those who will be most adversely affected are the poor, disabled and maybe
throw in those living in rural areas.  Those better off disproportionately
have Cable or HD tv, so no need for coupons and converter boxes.

Randall


On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Tony B  wrote:

> Let's get this over with already. There was no shortage of coupons at
> all this time LAST year, or before that when we first started talking
> about it. No matter how far you move the deadline, some people are
> always going to wait until the last minute.
>
> In our neck of the woods it basically means people are going to lose
> 90% of their channels, as the digital signals just won't penetrate up
> here.
>
> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Ranbo  wrote:
> > Obama official said (during transition) they want a delay in converting
> to
> > HD tv because of various problems, including lack of funding for the
> > coupons.  However FCC said (during transition) that delay would cause
> more
> > problems and the Feb 17 date should remain.  Anyone hear if Obama is
> > planning or likely to delay this?  I'm hoping so, as don't have a
> converter
> > or coupon and coupon wait list is months, at least.
> >
> > BTW, if anyone here has any converter coupons they don't need I'd be most
> > appreciative.  Or an extra converter box they'd sell cheap, if you live
> > fairly close by (I'm in Chevy Chase).
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Will Obama delay switch to HD?

[John Duncan Yoyo]

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Tony B  wrote:

> Let's get this over with already. There was no shortage of coupons at
> all this time LAST year, or before that when we first started talking
> about it. No matter how far you move the deadline, some people are
> always going to wait until the last minute.


This time last year the converter boxes were unavailable.  I had to settle
for what I could find when my ninety days was almost up.  From what I hear
the selection is better now.  It is hard to find someone who carries the
ones you want.  Most places have one or two.  I wouldn't recommend the
Magnavox I got at WalMart the Zenith I got a Circuit City was better.


-- 
John Duncan Yoyo
---o)


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Re: [CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review

[Jeff Wright]

> Microsoft's executives have made no secret of the fact that Windows 7
> is an incremental improvement to Windows Vista, with CEO Steve Ballmer
> calling it "Windows Vista, a lot better," and saying, "Windows 7 is
> Windows Vista with cleanup in user interface [and] improvements in
> performance."

To that, I would reply, "so what?"  

> "Previous features associated with Windows 7, including a
> "componentized" new architecture and the new "MinWin" kernel that
Microsoft began
> talking about back in 2003, are now being pushed off into the distant
future
> along with the relational database WinFS concept from Vista.

This is why you shouldn't get reviews of MS products from people who don't
actually use the product.  Minwin is not being "pushed off."  It's part of
the Windows 7 code base.  When you use 9 month old sources in your articles,
you tend to look uninformed.  Here's something from November.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1690

If you have some time to kill, you can hear about Minwin straight from the
Russinovich's mouth.

http://www.windows-now.com/blogs/robert/mark-russinovich-explains-minwin-onc
e-and-for-all.aspx

> That means an interface refresh, reduced layers of
> nagging message popups, and basic performance enhancements."

And this is bad because


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Re: [CGUYS] Will Obama delay switch to HD?

[Tony B]

Let's get this over with already. There was no shortage of coupons at
all this time LAST year, or before that when we first started talking
about it. No matter how far you move the deadline, some people are
always going to wait until the last minute.

In our neck of the woods it basically means people are going to lose
90% of their channels, as the digital signals just won't penetrate up
here.

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Ranbo  wrote:
> Obama official said (during transition) they want a delay in converting to
> HD tv because of various problems, including lack of funding for the
> coupons.  However FCC said (during transition) that delay would cause more
> problems and the Feb 17 date should remain.  Anyone hear if Obama is
> planning or likely to delay this?  I'm hoping so, as don't have a converter
> or coupon and coupon wait list is months, at least.
>
> BTW, if anyone here has any converter coupons they don't need I'd be most
> appreciative.  Or an extra converter box they'd sell cheap, if you live
> fairly close by (I'm in Chevy Chase).


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Re: [CGUYS] Will Obama delay switch to HD?

[mike]

I've heard rumblings from both directions.  One thing to keep in mind...we
are talking about just *television*.

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 7:52 PM, Ranbo  wrote:

> Obama official said (during transition) they want a delay in converting to
> HD tv because of various problems, including lack of funding for the
> coupons.  However FCC said (during transition) that delay would cause more
> problems and the Feb 17 date should remain.  Anyone hear if Obama is
> planning or likely to delay this?  I'm hoping so, as don't have a converter
> or coupon and coupon wait list is months, at least.
>
> BTW, if anyone here has any converter coupons they don't need I'd be most
> appreciative.  Or an extra converter box they'd sell cheap, if you live
> fairly close by (I'm in Chevy Chase).
>
> Thanks
>
> Randall
>
>
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[CGUYS] Will Obama delay switch to HD?

[Ranbo]

Obama official said (during transition) they want a delay in converting to
HD tv because of various problems, including lack of funding for the
coupons.  However FCC said (during transition) that delay would cause more
problems and the Feb 17 date should remain.  Anyone hear if Obama is
planning or likely to delay this?  I'm hoping so, as don't have a converter
or coupon and coupon wait list is months, at least.

BTW, if anyone here has any converter coupons they don't need I'd be most
appreciative.  Or an extra converter box they'd sell cheap, if you live
fairly close by (I'm in Chevy Chase).

Thanks

Randall


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[CGUYS] Win 7: A Clear-Eyed Review

[Tom Piwowar]

A long, thorough, and clear-eyed review of Windows 7 worth reading...

"Microsoft's goal with Windows 7 is to lift Vista's derailed train and 
put it back on the tracks. Windows 7 itself is internally called Windows 
6.1, essentially Vista Service Pack 2 (Microsoft is also preparing a 
scaled down Vista SP2 for delivery shortly before Windows 7 is released). 
Microsoft's executives have made no secret of the fact that Windows 7 is 
an incremental improvement to Windows Vista, with CEO Steve Ballmer 
calling it "Windows Vista, a lot better," and saying, "Windows 7 is 
Windows Vista with cleanup in user interface [and] improvements in 
performance."

Unlike what we were recently told here...

"Previous features associated with Windows 7, including a "componentized" 
new architecture and the new "MinWin" kernel that Microsoft began talking 
about back in 2003, are now being pushed off into the distant future 
along with the relational database WinFS concept from Vista. Instead, 
Windows 7 will simply repackage today's Vista so that people will buy it 
without complaining. That means an interface refresh, reduced layers of 
nagging message popups, and basic performance enhancements."

"Windows 7 vs. Snow Leopard: Microsoft's comeback plan"
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/01/22/windows_7_vs_snow_leopard_mic
rosofts_comeback_plan.html


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Re: [CGUYS] (CERT) Computer Emergency Response Team, US Govt. INFO

[katan]

On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:50:02 -0500, Tony B wrote:

>What's not really clear is: Since I have auto updates on, am I safe?
>How can I tell for sure? I really don't want to turn off autorun.

Really? I always hated autorun and was looking for a way to kill it off
globally (and thank you Rich for that link! :-). I never thought of it
as a virus issue, I just don't want Windows trying to be smarter than
me. *I* know what I want to do when I plug an external/thumb drive into
my computer, or drop a CD into the drive. It's annoying to have an
Explorer window (or the autorun dialog) pop up all the time.

I speak, of course, only for myself.

--
Katan

Welcome to ObamaNation!

"Our long national nightmare is over."
  Gerald Ford


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Re: [CGUYS] openmeta

[Jordan]

Have you seen this alternative to Finder?
http://cocoatech.com/
I guess it's been around for a while.

Tom Piwowar wrote:

http://code.google.com/p/openmeta/

A while back we were discussing an alternative system for organizing 
files using tags instead of a folder hierarchy. I gave GMail as a 
well-executed example and mentioned that OS X has this under the hood, 
but it is hard to get at. Taking us one step closer is this API (for OS X 
of course).


See ironicsoftware.com for some application of this. Maybe they will FTFF 
since Apple can't manage!



  



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Re: [CGUYS] Rudeness [was RE: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc]

[RLeeSimon]

Hey Tom ...why donna you tella dem all it's OK to copy all dem movies so
long as they send you a copy!!  ...hehee!

-Original Message-
From: mike [mailto:xha...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: Rudeness [was RE: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc]


It goes for both sides, I suppose the end point is Tom gets to be whatever
he wants since he controls the +k/b.

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 2:36 PM, John Duncan Yoyo
wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 4:14 PM, mike  wrote:
>
> > Right..ban or moderate those who disagree.  The fact that you have 
> > the ability to k/b people from this list should require you to act 
> > the adult
> at
> > some point before and ask the participants to cool down a little.
>  Instead
> > you egg on and call names.  He had posted that your (Tom's) posts 
> > 'pass understanding', and that comment warranted you to call him a 
> > jerk.  The
> two
> > of you and a few others had a disagreement over nothing factual, 
> > only on perception and your response to him not agreeing with you is 
> > to call him names.
> >
>
> Mike the problem is when the person is a) just being contradictory to 
> be contradictory and not really arguing a point and b) just being 
> snarky about it.
>
> It feels a like this .
>
> Tom is the top act at the floor show.
>
> >
> > If only one person had this perception, it could be argued that it 
> > was
> not
> > correct.  However, several have the same perception.
> >
> > Personally, yes, I'd rather have you call names so the users will be
> clear
> > who has the k/b button, but in the end you will do whatever you 
> > want.
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:
> >
> > > >I ask the same from Tom but it doesn't happen.  When you disagree 
> > > >with
> > > him,
> > > >name calling ensues.  Remember jerk just a short time ago?
> > >
> > > It takes an extraordinary effort to get me to that point of
> frustration.
> > >
> > > I guess it would be more polite to just quietly ban the offender 
> > > from posting or to put them on moderation.
> > >
> > > Is that what you suggest?
> > >
> > >
> > >
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Re: [CGUYS] DMCA: was: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[Tom Piwowar]

>While admire you as an avid Mac supporter, your a wimp on this issue.  
>You are hardly an authority on law, if you were, I'd never hire you as  
>my attorney. We live in America. It's the 2nd amendment for freedom of  
>speech. No DMCA supersedes the constitution.

Most smart lawyers will advise you to do everything possible to avoid 
litigation. Litigation against scared people with deep pockets is 
especially to be avoided.


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Re: [CGUYS] (CERT) Computer Emergency Response Team, US Govt. I

[Jeff Wright]

> Is John Stewart upset that George Bush is no longer in the White House?

Let's see how funny he he'll be now that he has to actually work for a
living.  Besides, I'm more worried about Olberman.  That rightous
indignation isn't going to raise itself, ya know.

Besides, Messoparedmond just doesn't have the same ring to it.


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Re: [CGUYS] DMCA: was: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[Jeff Miles]

Tom,

	While admire you as an avid Mac supporter, your a wimp on this issue.  
You are hardly an authority on law, if you were, I'd never hire you as  
my attorney. We live in America. It's the 2nd amendment for freedom of  
speech. No DMCA supersedes the constitution.
	A lot of people believe they don't have the money to fight such a  
fight. You don't need money, just backing. And there's plenty of that.  
So if the DMCA wants to take this all the way to the supreme court, I  
say go for it! We'll whomp their ass.



On Jan 22, 2009, at 12:13 PM, Tom Piwowar wrote:


http://news.cnet.com/2010-12-950229.html


Note that article written by a CNET "political correspondent,"  
hardly an

authority on law or computers.

Note that article says "fears of legal action *may* not all be  
justified"

(emphasis mine). So even the author isn't full standing behind the
assertion.

Note that rules of evidence and grounds for conviction in civil  
suits are

much more in favor of the prosecution.


http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/dmca_revealed.htm


And you ignored http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/dmca_revisited.htm

Did you read the site's disclaimer and suggestion that "you go  
someplace

else"?


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Re: [CGUYS] (CERT) Computer Emergency Response Team, US Govt. I

[Tom Piwowar]

>What will you rage against of Microsoft did the unthinkable and
>actually created a secure OS?

Is John Stewart upset that George Bush is no longer in the White House?


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Re: [CGUYS] Rudeness [was RE: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc]

[mike]

It goes for both sides, I suppose the end point is Tom gets to be whatever
he wants since he controls the +k/b.

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 2:36 PM, John Duncan Yoyo
wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 4:14 PM, mike  wrote:
>
> > Right..ban or moderate those who disagree.  The fact that you have the
> > ability to k/b people from this list should require you to act the adult
> at
> > some point before and ask the participants to cool down a little.
>  Instead
> > you egg on and call names.  He had posted that your (Tom's) posts 'pass
> > understanding', and that comment warranted you to call him a jerk.  The
> two
> > of you and a few others had a disagreement over nothing factual, only on
> > perception and your response to him not agreeing with you is to call him
> > names.
> >
>
> Mike the problem is when the person is a) just being contradictory to be
> contradictory and not really arguing a point and b) just being snarky about
> it.
>
> It feels a like this .
>
> Tom is the top act at the floor show.
>
> >
> > If only one person had this perception, it could be argued that it was
> not
> > correct.  However, several have the same perception.
> >
> > Personally, yes, I'd rather have you call names so the users will be
> clear
> > who has the k/b button, but in the end you will do whatever you want.
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:
> >
> > > >I ask the same from Tom but it doesn't happen.  When you disagree with
> > > him,
> > > >name calling ensues.  Remember jerk just a short time ago?
> > >
> > > It takes an extraordinary effort to get me to that point of
> frustration.
> > >
> > > I guess it would be more polite to just quietly ban the offender from
> > > posting or to put them on moderation.
> > >
> > > Is that what you suggest?
> > >
> > >
> > >
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Re: [CGUYS] Rudeness [was RE: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc]

[John Duncan Yoyo]

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 4:14 PM, mike  wrote:

> Right..ban or moderate those who disagree.  The fact that you have the
> ability to k/b people from this list should require you to act the adult at
> some point before and ask the participants to cool down a little.  Instead
> you egg on and call names.  He had posted that your (Tom's) posts 'pass
> understanding', and that comment warranted you to call him a jerk.  The two
> of you and a few others had a disagreement over nothing factual, only on
> perception and your response to him not agreeing with you is to call him
> names.
>

Mike the problem is when the person is a) just being contradictory to be
contradictory and not really arguing a point and b) just being snarky about
it.

It feels a like this .

Tom is the top act at the floor show.

>
> If only one person had this perception, it could be argued that it was not
> correct.  However, several have the same perception.
>
> Personally, yes, I'd rather have you call names so the users will be clear
> who has the k/b button, but in the end you will do whatever you want.
>
> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:
>
> > >I ask the same from Tom but it doesn't happen.  When you disagree with
> > him,
> > >name calling ensues.  Remember jerk just a short time ago?
> >
> > It takes an extraordinary effort to get me to that point of frustration.
> >
> > I guess it would be more polite to just quietly ban the offender from
> > posting or to put them on moderation.
> >
> > Is that what you suggest?
> >
> >
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>
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Re: [CGUYS] (CERT) Computer Emergency Response Team, US Govt. I

[Jeff Wright]

> "Downadup worm now infects 1 in every 16 PCs, says Panda Security"
> http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&art
> icleId=9126482&intsrc=hm_list
>
> Is that enough?

It's a good proxy, but these are Panda's numbers, which could be
inflated to sell software or have a non-representitive sample. They
could be completely accurate, but we have no way of knowing.

As with all developing news stories, there will be errors in the rush
to report. I always wait for the follow-up *after* an event to to get
the real story, but we can agree that Downadup is a big-ass worm,
regardless, and should be taken very seriously.

It's a mixed bag:  XP is obviously very vulnerable, but Vista seems to
be largely unaffected.

What will you rage against of Microsoft did the unthinkable and
actually created a secure OS?


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Re: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[John Duncan Yoyo]

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> >Highly unfair for me to take the kids movies we own and put them on my pc
> to
> >feed my tv?  I've got 200 cds in my closet I haven't got one out since I
> >burned them to the pc...I play them to the stereo with the Apple remote
> app
> >on my ipod touch.  Found a great remote app from VLC that can play the
> >movies now too.
>
> I believe there is a substantial reward for turning Mike in. Does anyone
> know his address? Shall we agree to split the reward so we can avoid any
> rude pushing to be first?
>
> $65,000 x 200 = 13 Mega Dollars x .25 = $3.25M / 475 = $6842 each more or
> less
>

Your lawyers should probably include the EFF and the ACLU.

This would have be covered by the fair use provision.  Now who knows.


-- 
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Re: [CGUYS] Ain't no MAC virus/trojans, Sure and I have a bridg

[mike]

So steal a non-pirated copy?

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 1:39 PM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> >ZDNet's Ryan Naraine is reporting that pirated copies of Apple's
> >iWork 09 circulating on BitTorrent and elsewhere are infected with Mac
> >malware.
>
> Ironically, Apple recently removed product activation from iWork. So
> stealing a pirated copy would be especially dumb.
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Rudeness [was RE: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc]

[mike]

Right..ban or moderate those who disagree.  The fact that you have the
ability to k/b people from this list should require you to act the adult at
some point before and ask the participants to cool down a little.  Instead
you egg on and call names.  He had posted that your (Tom's) posts 'pass
understanding', and that comment warranted you to call him a jerk.  The two
of you and a few others had a disagreement over nothing factual, only on
perception and your response to him not agreeing with you is to call him
names.

If only one person had this perception, it could be argued that it was not
correct.  However, several have the same perception.

Personally, yes, I'd rather have you call names so the users will be clear
who has the k/b button, but in the end you will do whatever you want.

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> >I ask the same from Tom but it doesn't happen.  When you disagree with
> him,
> >name calling ensues.  Remember jerk just a short time ago?
>
> It takes an extraordinary effort to get me to that point of frustration.
>
> I guess it would be more polite to just quietly ban the offender from
> posting or to put them on moderation.
>
> Is that what you suggest?
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[mike]

I'm poor, you would have better luck turning in rich geeks like Kevin Rose
or Leo Laporte...how about windows lover Paul Thurrott?  Tom should get his
teeth into turning that guy in...hmmm.  How about the entire staff at
Macworld...or PCMAG?

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> >Highly unfair for me to take the kids movies we own and put them on my pc
> to
> >feed my tv?  I've got 200 cds in my closet I haven't got one out since I
> >burned them to the pc...I play them to the stereo with the Apple remote
> app
> >on my ipod touch.  Found a great remote app from VLC that can play the
> >movies now too.
>
> I believe there is a substantial reward for turning Mike in. Does anyone
> know his address? Shall we agree to split the reward so we can avoid any
> rude pushing to be first?
>
> $65,000 x 200 = 13 Mega Dollars x .25 = $3.25M / 475 = $6842 each more or
> less
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] openmeta

[mike]

GAH!

I'm completely down with Tom on this one, I hate the fact I've got this
system that can churn out 3d graphics in FPS that look completely real but
*I* still have to manually manage where my files are.  OS X is definitely
the winner over windows on this one, I do like the way it handles files
more.  Ah, such is life.

Maybe windows 8...or 9...

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 1:13 PM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> http://code.google.com/p/openmeta/
>
> A while back we were discussing an alternative system for organizing
> files using tags instead of a folder hierarchy. I gave GMail as a
> well-executed example and mentioned that OS X has this under the hood,
> but it is hard to get at. Taking us one step closer is this API (for OS X
> of course).
>
> See ironicsoftware.com for some application of this. Maybe they will FTFF
> since Apple can't manage!
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[Tom Piwowar]

>That's one heck of an assumption. Couldn't you at least *ask* her
>first if it's a movie with copy protection before you assume she's
>some kind of criminal?

If the file were not protected there would be no need to ask the 
question. It would be easy to copy by normal means.


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Re: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[Tom Piwowar]

>i wasn't asking about the legality! I was asking about the capabilities 
>of the software.

Answering that question is a crime. Sorry. 

You should also refrain from asking us how to manufacture nerve gas in 
your bath tub. Mike will want to show off and tell you, but we won't let 
him.


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Re: [CGUYS] Ain't no MAC virus/trojans, Sure and I have a bridge..

[mike]

Good news...means I don't have to worry about my mac or windows machines :)

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Rich Schinnell wrote:

> Just to keep the scorecard up to date:   Even though we all know that
> most pirated software contains some added benefits.. So I guess we might
> have some Mac bots out there also..
>
> Rich
>
>
>
> http://blogs.pcmag.com/securitywatch/2009/01/mac_malware_found_in_pirated_i.php
>
>
> ZDNet's Ryan Naraine is reporting that pirated copies of Apple's iWork 09
> circulating on BitTorrent and elsewhere are infected with Mac malware.
>
> According to Mac AV vendor Intego the malware is known as
> OSX.Trojan.iServices.A. The pirated software is complete and functional but
> the installer has an additional package, named iWorkServices, that contains
> the attack. It may ask the user for an administrator password, depending on
> the version of OS X. After it installs it phones home to a remote server to
> report that it is installed and awaits remote commands, including the
> installation of additional software. It loads at boot time and has root
> access.
>
> Sounds very much like a conventional Windows bot. Naraine quotes Intego as
> saying that at least 20,000 Macs had already downloaded the infected
> installer.
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] (CERT) Computer Emergency Response Team, US Govt. I

[Tom Piwowar]

>The worm is fast spreading alright; I never said otherwise.  I only
>questioned the veracity of taking the worm's author at his word that X
>number of computers have been infected.  That's where the 9,000,000
>number came from.  It may very well be that number, it may be much
>smaller or even greater.  I'd be interested in seeing the final number
>from a reliable source when the dust settles.

"Downadup worm now infects 1 in every 16 PCs, says Panda Security" 
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&art
icleId=9126482&intsrc=hm_list

Is that enough?


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Re: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[Tom Piwowar]

>The content of a DeCSS encrypted disk falls under fair use, copying that is
>not illegal, the DMCA says that breaking that DeCSS code to get to the
>content is illegal.

If you do go over to the doom9 site and read his "Revisited" story about 
the DMCA you will see the site owner jummping up and down about how 
stupid and "unconstitutional" the judge's decision was. The good guys 
lost.

In that kind of environment it is massively inappropriate to skirt the 
law and test the fates. 


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Re: [CGUYS] Ain't no MAC virus/trojans, Sure and I have a bridg

[Tom Piwowar]

>ZDNet's Ryan Naraine is reporting that pirated copies of Apple's 
>iWork 09 circulating on BitTorrent and elsewhere are infected with Mac 
>malware.

Ironically, Apple recently removed product activation from iWork. So 
stealing a pirated copy would be especially dumb.


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Re: [CGUYS] Rudeness [was RE: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc]

[Tom Piwowar]

>I ask the same from Tom but it doesn't happen.  When you disagree with him,
>name calling ensues.  Remember jerk just a short time ago? 

It takes an extraordinary effort to get me to that point of frustration. 

I guess it would be more polite to just quietly ban the offender from 
posting or to put them on moderation.

Is that what you suggest?


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Re: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[Tom Piwowar]

>Highly unfair for me to take the kids movies we own and put them on my pc to
>feed my tv?  I've got 200 cds in my closet I haven't got one out since I
>burned them to the pc...I play them to the stereo with the Apple remote app
>on my ipod touch.  Found a great remote app from VLC that can play the
>movies now too.

I believe there is a substantial reward for turning Mike in. Does anyone 
know his address? Shall we agree to split the reward so we can avoid any 
rude pushing to be first?

$65,000 x 200 = 13 Mega Dollars x .25 = $3.25M / 475 = $6842 each more or 
less


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Re: [CGUYS] Windows & Active X

[Tom Piwowar]

>I'm not sure how else to describe the application.  The flight
>sim (X-plane) needs to read/write the prefs (different from Mac OSX
>prefs, this is the starting location, aircraft, etc.)  Standard
>trouble shooting practice is to delete the prefs directory (file?).

I don't know. I do know that what you describe makes me nervous. Apps 
need to be kept under control to prevent bad things from happening.

>I'd be uneasy with that.  I have little snitch running in an
>attempt to prevent that kind of behavior.

Little Snitch, while good protection, is for something else. It traps 
applications that try to phone home. If you run a rogue app on your 
computer it could disable Little Snitch first and you will never know 
what happend.


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[CGUYS] openmeta

[Tom Piwowar]

http://code.google.com/p/openmeta/

A while back we were discussing an alternative system for organizing 
files using tags instead of a folder hierarchy. I gave GMail as a 
well-executed example and mentioned that OS X has this under the hood, 
but it is hard to get at. Taking us one step closer is this API (for OS X 
of course).

See ironicsoftware.com for some application of this. Maybe they will FTFF 
since Apple can't manage!


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Re: [CGUYS] (CERT) Computer Emergency Response Team, US Govt. I

[Jeff Wright]

Forgot one path:

4.  USB thumb drives -- which is still dependent on 1-3.


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[CGUYS] Ain't no MAC virus/trojans, Sure and I have a bridge..

[Rich Schinnell]

Just to keep the scorecard up to date:   Even though we all know that
most pirated software contains some added benefits.. So I guess we might
have some Mac bots out there also..

Rich


http://blogs.pcmag.com/securitywatch/2009/01/mac_malware_found_in_pirated_i.php


ZDNet's Ryan Naraine is reporting that pirated copies of Apple's 
iWork 09 circulating on BitTorrent and elsewhere are infected with Mac malware.


According to Mac AV vendor Intego the malware is known as 
OSX.Trojan.iServices.A. The pirated software is complete and 
functional but the installer has an additional package, named 
iWorkServices, that contains the attack. It may ask the user for an 
administrator password, depending on the version of OS X. After it 
installs it phones home to a remote server to report that it is 
installed and awaits remote commands, including the installation of 
additional software. It loads at boot time and has root access.


Sounds very much like a conventional Windows bot. Naraine quotes 
Intego as saying that at least 20,000 Macs had already downloaded the 
infected installer.



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Re: [CGUYS] DMCA: was: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[Tom Piwowar]

> http://news.cnet.com/2010-12-950229.html

Note that article written by a CNET "political correspondent," hardly an 
authority on law or computers.

Note that article says "fears of legal action *may* not all be justified" 
(emphasis mine). So even the author isn't full standing behind the 
assertion.

Note that rules of evidence and grounds for conviction in civil suits are 
much more in favor of the prosecution.

> http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/dmca_revealed.htm

And you ignored http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/dmca_revisited.htm

Did you read the site's disclaimer and suggestion that "you go someplace 
else"?


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Re: [CGUYS] Microsoft profit declines, software maker to cut 5,

[Tom Piwowar]

>Microsoft profit declines, software maker to cut 5,000 jobs

You heard it here first...

"Vista main culprit in Microsoft layoffs"
http://www.infoworld.com/article/09/01/22/Windows_culprit_in_microsoft_layo
ffs_1.html

And in completely unrelated news...

"Apple rises 7 percent following strong results"
http://uk.reuters.com/article/pressReleases/idUKTRE50L3YD20090122


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Re: [CGUYS] (CERT) Computer Emergency Response Team, US Govt. I

[Tom Piwowar]

I hope I'm not being too "irritating"...

"US-CERT: Microsoft issued faulty fix for Downadup virus"
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/41140/108/

Clearly Obama has re-staffed CERT with a bunch of ideological lefties.


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Re: [CGUYS] Rudeness [was RE: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc]

[Sue Cubic]

O no!  Not Again!  I guess it's been about a week since the last 
spat.  It's enough to drive a mom to drink!!!  Suggest you all start 
watching "The Nanny", and notice how you don't even say anything--you just 
pick them up and put them back on the "naughty chair"--1 minute for each 
year of age.


Sue


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Re: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[mike]

Highly unfair for me to take the kids movies we own and put them on my pc to
feed my tv?  I've got 200 cds in my closet I haven't got one out since I
burned them to the pc...I play them to the stereo with the Apple remote app
on my ipod touch.  Found a great remote app from VLC that can play the
movies now too.

Mike

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Marcio V. Pinheiro
wrote:

> Of course it is braking the law. Besides this is highly unfair for the
> people who
> worked and made the movie.
>
> Marcio
>
>
> At 01:34 PM 1/22/2009, you wrote:
>
>> We have very few rules here. Some people wish we had more. Yes there are
>> plenty of hacker forums. This is not one of them. Is not breaking the law
>> really such a problem for you?
>>
>> >As opposed to the thousands of other forums/email lists/podcasts etc she
>> >could have asked?
>>
>> >> That would be illegal so please don't ask such questions here.
>>
>>
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Re: [CGUYS] (CERT) Computer Emergency Response Team, US Govt. I

[Jeff Wright]

You're going to make me fisk you...so much for change.

>>I've read about this estimate and this number was derived from looking at
>>results in the worm's code itself, making this calculation dubious.  I'd
>>place that number somewhere between WAG and spot-on.
>>
>>What's odd about the percentages of OS versions in the article I linked to
>>is how much of it is Windows XP SP2, which turned on the firewall and
>>auto-updates by default.  That tells me that the users of these machines
>>received them either very poorly configured or they themselves intentionally
>>disabled these security components.
>
> I don't think reports of this fast-spreading worm were "dubious."

The worm is fast spreading alright; I never said otherwise.  I only
questioned the veracity of taking the worm's author at his word that X
number of computers have been infected.  That's where the 9,000,000
number came from.  It may very well be that number, it may be much
smaller or even greater.  I'd be interested in seeing the final number
from a reliable source when the dust settles.

> I don't think it spreads because people "intentionally disabled these
> security components." There are multiple routes of attack.

There are 3 routes, all of which I have already posted:

1.  Via the unpatched exploit -- Windows Update would have needed to
have been turned off for it not to be patched on XP SP2/SP3 systems,
of which there are a good number of, as would have been the firewall
as well, since the worm communicates over inbound ports commonly
blocked.
2.  Via running with admin rights on a patched system.
3.  Via a brutish-"ish" force admin password attack on ADMIN$ shares.
I say "ish" as there is a preset list of passwords it tries.

That's it.  If you've read of others, let us know.

> Yes, truth telling can be "irritating," but spreading misinformation is
> both irritating and dangerous. The fact is that we have another major
> Windows infection in the wild. It does not hit all Windows machines, but
> it does hit a lot of them.

Don't get me started on irritations.

Feel free to show us anything of what I've posted is misinformation.


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Re: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[Marcio V. Pinheiro]

Of course it is braking the law. Besides this is highly unfair for 
the people who

worked and made the movie.

Marcio

At 01:34 PM 1/22/2009, you wrote:

We have very few rules here. Some people wish we had more. Yes there are
plenty of hacker forums. This is not one of them. Is not breaking the law
really such a problem for you?

>As opposed to the thousands of other forums/email lists/podcasts etc she
>could have asked?

>> That would be illegal so please don't ask such questions here.


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Re: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[John Duncan Yoyo]

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 12:46 PM, Judy Cosler  wrote:

> i wasn't asking about the legality! I was asking about the capabilities of
> the software.
>
>
> Roxio sells a package that is called Roxio Easy DVD Copy.  As to what it
does who can tell from that description.  I've never looked, bought or
otherwise tried the produce.  This is probably a case where google is your
friend.

Tom is hypersensitive to lawyers but the DMCA is written in a way to attempt
to stifle free speech.  If there was someone to sue for money attmepting to
sue someone talking about this topic it would be a prime target for lawsuits
and probably overturned in short order.


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---o)


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Re: [CGUYS] Rudeness [was RE: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc]

[mike]

Cheers.

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Snyder, Mark (IT Civ)  wrote:

> Calling it fair is irrelevant.  Rudeness is failing to meet a minimum
> standard of basic courtesy.
>
> Please raise that standard of behavior.  Many on this list tire of
> blatant disrespect of list members.  Please show basic respect; this is
> not a list for brats.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Mark Snyder
> -Original Message-
>
> I ask the same from Tom but it doesn't happen.  When you disagree with
> him, name calling ensues.  Remember jerk just a short time ago?  Tom
> gets what he gives, no more, no less.  He's a big boy, I'm sure he'll
> handle it.
>
> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Snyder, Mark (IT Civ)
>  > wrote:
>
> > Where did all that hostility come from?  Mike, the message is rude!
> > Can we show at least basic respect here, please?
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Mark Snyder
> > -Original Message-
> > We aren't breaking the law, get over yourself and your self
> importance.
> >
> > Discussing the DMCA is NOT illegal no matter how much you want it to
> be.
> >
> >
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Re: [CGUYS] Rudeness [was RE: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc]

[Snyder, Mark (IT Civ)]

Calling it fair is irrelevant.  Rudeness is failing to meet a minimum
standard of basic courtesy.   

Please raise that standard of behavior.  Many on this list tire of
blatant disrespect of list members.  Please show basic respect; this is
not a list for brats.

Thank you,

Mark Snyder
-Original Message-

I ask the same from Tom but it doesn't happen.  When you disagree with
him, name calling ensues.  Remember jerk just a short time ago?  Tom
gets what he gives, no more, no less.  He's a big boy, I'm sure he'll
handle it.

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Snyder, Mark (IT Civ)
 wrote:

> Where did all that hostility come from?  Mike, the message is rude!  
> Can we show at least basic respect here, please?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Mark Snyder
> -Original Message-
> We aren't breaking the law, get over yourself and your self
importance.
>
> Discussing the DMCA is NOT illegal no matter how much you want it to
be.
>
>
> **
> ***
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Re: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[mike]

You are unreal.  LOL.

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> >Roxio says so.  It is illegal to copy, copyrighted movies.
>
> Roxio tried to provide copying last year and ended up in court.
>
> How about this? Anyone wishing to answer DMCA-prohibited questions must
> first post a $2,000,000 bond to cover all consequent expenses.
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Rudeness

[Snyder, Mark (IT Civ)]

Rudeness is not subject to a vote.  Rudeness is failing to meet a
minimum level of cordiality and respect of others.  Saying something
that is true does not make it more or less rude: "You are uglier than
dead mole rat!" may accurately describe a person to whom it is directed,
but is rude nonetheless.

Thank you,

Mark Snyder
-Original Message-
If we're taking a vote, I see no rudeness in _this_ response. It was the
first message - the one assuming some sort of criminal activity - that
was rude.

Besides, what he says is true. There's nothing illegal about discussing
a law.


On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 12:34 PM, Snyder, Mark (IT Civ)
 wrote:
> Where did all that hostility come from?  Mike, the message is rude!  
> Can we show at least basic respect here, please?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Mark Snyder
> -Original Message-
> We aren't breaking the law, get over yourself and your self
importance.
>
> Discussing the DMCA is NOT illegal no matter how much you want it to
be.



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Re: [CGUYS] Rudeness [was RE: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc]

[Snyder, Mark (IT Civ)]

Call 


Thank you,

Mark Snyder
7575 Colshire Drive
McLean, Virginia 22101
703.883-8365

-Original Message-
From: Computer Guys Discussion List
[mailto:computerguy...@listserv.aol.com] On Behalf Of mike
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 12:55 PM
To: COMPUTERGUYS-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
Subject: Re: [CGUYS] Rudeness [was RE: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc]

I ask the same from Tom but it doesn't happen.  When you disagree with
him, name calling ensues.  Remember jerk just a short time ago?  Tom
gets what he gives, no more, no less.  He's a big boy, I'm sure he'll
handle it.

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Snyder, Mark (IT Civ)
 wrote:

> Where did all that hostility come from?  Mike, the message is rude!  
> Can we show at least basic respect here, please?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Mark Snyder
> -Original Message-
> We aren't breaking the law, get over yourself and your self
importance.
>
> Discussing the DMCA is NOT illegal no matter how much you want it to
be.
>
>
> **
> ***
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Re: [CGUYS] (CERT) Computer Emergency Response Team, US Govt. I

[Tony B]

Yes, it creates all kinds of chaos with lots of apps. I find it a
tremendous convenience. I mean, who the heck really wants to have to
manually open a file manager window, navigate to the drive you just
inserted, then dig around for what you want?

I'm glad to see we really don't *have* to disable autorun. Apparently
this advice is being given as some sort of workaround to avoid
actually installing the fix. I just can't imagine Grandma is going to
be in better shape digging around and double clicking files on the
drive.


On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 12:39 PM, Richard P.  wrote:
> So if I disable AutoRun in Windows, will that create any problems
> synching iTunes or downloading pictures from a camera? Each program is
> launched and transfer started upon connection to their individual
> device.


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[CGUYS] Top rated software as reviewed in the UNITED STATES by Macworld mag Re: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[mike]

http://www.macworld.com/article/59605/2006/12/handbrake.html

Fantastic program, came to windows not long ago.


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Re: [CGUYS] Rudeness [was RE: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc]

[mike]

I ask the same from Tom but it doesn't happen.  When you disagree with him,
name calling ensues.  Remember jerk just a short time ago?  Tom gets what he
gives, no more, no less.  He's a big boy, I'm sure he'll handle it.

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Snyder, Mark (IT Civ)  wrote:

> Where did all that hostility come from?  Mike, the message is rude!  Can
> we show at least basic respect here, please?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Mark Snyder
> -Original Message-
> We aren't breaking the law, get over yourself and your self importance.
>
> Discussing the DMCA is NOT illegal no matter how much you want it to be.
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[Judy Cosler]

i wasn't asking about the legality! I was asking about the capabilities 
of the software.


Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:

Only if it is a copyrighted piece.

If it is a home movie and she has been given permission from the 
copyright holder it is legal.


Roxio says so.  It is illegal to copy, copyrighted movies.

Stewart


At 08:56 AM 1/22/2009, you wrote:

>can I use Roxio to copy a movie DVD? or do I have to use something like
>Nero?

That would be illegal so please don't ask such questions here.


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Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[Tom Piwowar]

>Roxio says so.  It is illegal to copy, copyrighted movies.

Roxio tried to provide copying last year and ended up in court.

How about this? Anyone wishing to answer DMCA-prohibited questions must 
first post a $2,000,000 bond to cover all consequent expenses.


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Re: [CGUYS] Rudeness

[Tony B]

If we're taking a vote, I see no rudeness in _this_ response. It was
the first message - the one assuming some sort of criminal activity -
that was rude.

Besides, what he says is true. There's nothing illegal about discussing a law.


On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 12:34 PM, Snyder, Mark (IT Civ)
 wrote:
> Where did all that hostility come from?  Mike, the message is rude!  Can
> we show at least basic respect here, please?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Mark Snyder
> -Original Message-
> We aren't breaking the law, get over yourself and your self importance.
>
> Discussing the DMCA is NOT illegal no matter how much you want it to be.


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Re: [CGUYS] (CERT) Computer Emergency Response Team, US Govt. I

[Richard P.]

So if I disable AutoRun in Windows, will that create any problems
synching iTunes or downloading pictures from a camera? Each program is
launched and transfer started upon connection to their individual
device.

Richard P.


>
> Attack via autolaunch is particularly troubling to me. This happened to
> Apple back in the days of floppy disks and it was the only virus
> infection ever to hit my office. Apple promptly removed autolaunch and it
> hasn't been back since. Autolaunch trades a small benefit for a big risk.
> Computers should not do this.


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[CGUYS] Rudeness [was RE: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc]

[Snyder, Mark (IT Civ)]

Where did all that hostility come from?  Mike, the message is rude!  Can
we show at least basic respect here, please?

Thank you,

Mark Snyder
-Original Message-
We aren't breaking the law, get over yourself and your self importance.

Discussing the DMCA is NOT illegal no matter how much you want it to be.


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Re: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[mike]

The content of a DeCSS encrypted disk falls under fair use, copying that is
not illegal, the DMCA says that breaking that DeCSS code to get to the
content is illegal.

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall <
popoz...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> If I understand it correctly.  The copyright law has changes so that
> anything you produce is automatically afforded copyright protection.
>
> If you so choose you can then give folks the right to copy anything you
> have produced.
>
> However if they do not ask your permission first and it is granted it is
> automatically considered a violation of the DMCA.
>
> How you want to enforce it is then your call.
>
> Stewart
>
>
> At 10:57 AM 1/22/2009, you wrote:
>
>> That's one heck of an assumption. Couldn't you at least *ask* her
>> first if it's a movie with copy protection before you assume she's
>> some kind of criminal?
>>
>> We produce thousands of 'movie DVD's' a year, none of which are copy
>> protected. We understand people can and do copy them; our only choice
>> is to sell copies cheap enough that they would rather just buy them
>> from us than go to the hassle.
>>
>
> Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
> mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
> Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
> Ozark, AL  SL 82
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] (CERT) Computer Emergency Response Team, US Govt. I

[Richard P.]

I found this explanation from MS at: http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=890830

It looks like the tool only runs once a month when it downloads the
new definitions. It runs in the background which is why I've never
seen it. It can be run manually:

Q13: After I run the tool from Microsoft Update, Windows Update, or
Automatic Updates, where are the tool files stored? Can I rerun the
tool?
A13: When it is downloaded from Microsoft Update or from Windows
Update, the tool runs only one time each month. To manually run the
tool multiple times a month, download the tool from the Download
Center or by visiting the following Microsoft Web site:
http://www.microsoft.com/security/malwareremove/default.mspx
(http://www.microsoft.com/security/malwareremove/default.mspx)
For an online scan of your system by using the Windows Live OneCare
safety scanner, visit the following Microsoft Web site:
http://safety.live.com

It is a less than obvious tool which apparently does provide some protection.

Richard P.


> Alright, having looked into this further I see that anyone with auto
> updates ON is protected. Apparently all the new infections are coming
> from corporate systems that have not yet implemented the fix manually.
>
> Additionally, the Microsoft Malicious Software Tool detects all
> variants of this threat. I'm not real clear on what this tool is and
> how it runs, but when I went to Windows Update this morning it was
> sitting there waiting as the only available update. If I'm supposed to
> run it manually I'm not sure how, because I don't see it in any menu.


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Re: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

If I understand it correctly.  The copyright law has changes so that 
anything you produce is automatically afforded copyright protection.


If you so choose you can then give folks the right to copy anything 
you have produced.


However if they do not ask your permission first and it is granted it 
is automatically considered a violation of the DMCA.


How you want to enforce it is then your call.

Stewart


At 10:57 AM 1/22/2009, you wrote:

That's one heck of an assumption. Couldn't you at least *ask* her
first if it's a movie with copy protection before you assume she's
some kind of criminal?

We produce thousands of 'movie DVD's' a year, none of which are copy
protected. We understand people can and do copy them; our only choice
is to sell copies cheap enough that they would rather just buy them
from us than go to the hassle.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] (CERT) Computer Emergency Response Team, US Govt. I

[Chris Dunford]

> I don't think reports of this fast-spreading worm were "dubious."

You paste in a quote and then insist that it says something that it doesn't
say. It said that the calculation of the number of infections is dubious.
That is NOT the same as saying that the worm doesn't exist.

It is a huge step from anything you quote to "Didn't our WFBs already inform
us last week that this was nothing to worry about and the 9,000,000 infected
PCs I mentioned were just a hallucination generated by my intolerance of
defective operating systems?"

> I don't think it spreads because people "intentionally disabled these
> security components." There are multiple routes of attack.

In the case of Vista, that is exactly how it spreads. Vista out of the box
is not vulnerable to this attack. You have to turn stuff off.


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Re: [CGUYS] GPS [was: Windows & Active X]

[Ralph]

> I recently say an car integrated GPS that had a display that looked to be
> about 8 x 10 inches in size. This looks much more useful than the tiny
> screens I've seen on the add-on models.

While not denying the appeal of those large, built-in screens, I've
found that by putting the GPS windshield mount to the upper-left of
the steering wheel (as opposed to the right-center, where I initially
put it), the screen ends up about 6-8 inches from my eyes and ears,
thereby giving me a good view, and within easy reach for touch-screen
functions.


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Re: [CGUYS] (CERT) Computer Emergency Response Team, US Govt. I

[mike]

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/890830

support page for the malicious software tool

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Tony B  wrote:

> Alright, having looked into this further I see that anyone with auto
> updates ON is protected. Apparently all the new infections are coming
> from corporate systems that have not yet implemented the fix manually.
>
> Additionally, the Microsoft Malicious Software Tool detects all
> variants of this threat. I'm not real clear on what this tool is and
> how it runs, but when I went to Windows Update this morning it was
> sitting there waiting as the only available update. If I'm supposed to
> run it manually I'm not sure how, because I don't see it in any menu.
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] (CERT) Computer Emergency Response Team, US Govt. I

[Tony B]

Alright, having looked into this further I see that anyone with auto
updates ON is protected. Apparently all the new infections are coming
from corporate systems that have not yet implemented the fix manually.

Additionally, the Microsoft Malicious Software Tool detects all
variants of this threat. I'm not real clear on what this tool is and
how it runs, but when I went to Windows Update this morning it was
sitting there waiting as the only available update. If I'm supposed to
run it manually I'm not sure how, because I don't see it in any menu.


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Re: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[Tony B]

That's one heck of an assumption. Couldn't you at least *ask* her
first if it's a movie with copy protection before you assume she's
some kind of criminal?

We produce thousands of 'movie DVD's' a year, none of which are copy
protected. We understand people can and do copy them; our only choice
is to sell copies cheap enough that they would rather just buy them
from us than go to the hassle.


On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 9:56 AM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:
>>can I use Roxio to copy a movie DVD? or do I have to use something like
>>Nero?
>
> That would be illegal so please don't ask such questions here.


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Re: [CGUYS] Windows & Active X

[Wayne Dernoncourt]

Tom Piwowar
>>And that is what I was trying to do - install the flight
>>simulator...  Except that it's not a "general" app, it's special.

> The idea of "general" app vs. "special" app is totally foreign
> to me. All apps can do potentially harmful things to a computer
> so I worry about all apps. If there are no safeguards about any
> random app running I am concerned.

I'm not sure how else to describe the application.  The flight
sim (X-plane) needs to read/write the prefs (different from Mac OSX
prefs, this is the starting location, aircraft, etc.)  Standard
trouble shooting practice is to delete the prefs directory (file?).

> A while back Flash was able to update itself without getting
> intercepted by OS X. I was very unhappy about that and am
> glad this is no longer the case. We really do need to have
> the OS able to protect itself.

I'd be uneasy with that.  I have little snitch running in an
attempt to prevent that kind of behavior.

> One reason I like hardware applicances is because all their
> code is in firmware. While it can be updated, it is a special
> process. It sometimes even requires that hardware buttons get
> pressed a certain way, so the hardware protects the firmware.

Yes

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Wayne D.   | supply this, at least not directly
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Re: [CGUYS] GPS

[Ralph]

> My address used to be located in the middle of my neighbors front lawn and
> now it lands on my house.

Is that change in effect everywhere, or only on your computer?


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Re: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[mike]

We aren't breaking the law, get over yourself and your self importance.

Discussing the DMCA is NOT illegal no matter how much you want it to be.

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 8:34 AM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> We have very few rules here. Some people wish we had more. Yes there are
> plenty of hacker forums. This is not one of them. Is not breaking the law
> really such a problem for you?
>
> >As opposed to the thousands of other forums/email lists/podcasts etc she
> >could have asked?
>
> >> That would be illegal so please don't ask such questions here.
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

Only if it is a copyrighted piece.

If it is a home movie and she has been given permission from the 
copyright holder it is legal.


Roxio says so.  It is illegal to copy, copyrighted movies.

Stewart


At 08:56 AM 1/22/2009, you wrote:

>can I use Roxio to copy a movie DVD? or do I have to use something like
>Nero?

That would be illegal so please don't ask such questions here.


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Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[mike]

http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/dmca_revealed.htm


This site has an interesting analysis of the DMCA, good for a read.

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 8:11 AM, mike  wrote:

> As opposed to the thousands of other forums/email lists/podcasts etc she
> could have asked?
>
> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:
>
>> >can I use Roxio to copy a movie DVD? or do I have to use something like
>> >Nero?
>>
>> That would be illegal so please don't ask such questions here.
>>
>>
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>
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[CGUYS] DMCA: was: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[mike]

http://news.cnet.com/2010-12-950229.html

Another article about DMCA myths.

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 8:16 AM, mike  wrote:

> http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/dmca_revealed.htm
>
>
> This site has an interesting analysis of the DMCA, good for a read.
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 8:11 AM, mike  wrote:
>
>> As opposed to the thousands of other forums/email lists/podcasts etc she
>> could have asked?
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:
>>
>>> >can I use Roxio to copy a movie DVD? or do I have to use something like
>>> >Nero?
>>>
>>> That would be illegal so please don't ask such questions here.
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
>
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[CGUYS] Microsoft profit declines, software maker to cut 5,000 jobs

[Richard P.]

This from Marketwatch: http://tinyurl.com/cph5r2

Microsoft profit declines, software maker to cut 5,000 jobs
By Jeffry Bartash
Last update: 9:13 a.m. EST Jan. 22, 2009

MSFT 19.38, +0.90, +4.9%) on Thursday reported an 11% drop in fiscal
second-quarter profit and said it will cut 5,000 jobs as demand
weakened for its Windows software. The Redmond, Wash.-based company
also said it would cease giving per-share forecasts for the rest of
2009 because of the uncertainty caused by a slumping U.S. and global
economy. In the final three months of 2008, meanwhile, Microsoft said
earnings fell to $4.17 billion, or 47 cents a share, from $4.71
billion, or 50 cents a share, in the year-earlier quarter. Revenue
edged up slightly to $16.63 billion from $16.4 billion from a year
ago. Microsoft was expected to earn 48 cents a share on revenue of
$17.1 billion, according to the consensus of analysts surveyed by
FactSet Research. In premarket trades, shares of Microsoft sank as
much as 7%. End of Story

Richard P.


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Re: [CGUYS] (CERT) Computer Emergency Response Team, US Govt. I

[mike]

The most irritating part is that it could have been completely avoided since
the fix has been out for some time.

This is what is happening with Vista and UAC, you can argue that UAC is
annoying but facts are facts, UAC keeps Vista from getting hit by a lot of
infections, and reportedly by all rootkits.  People turn off UAC because
it's 'annoying' and then whine about poor security.  Hopefully MS with W7
will find a happy medium with UAC.

Mike


On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> >Once again, nobody said that. This is a very irritating habit you have. It
> >happens so routinely that I have to wonder if it's intentional.
>
> Then what was this?
>
> >I've read about this estimate and this number was derived from looking at
> >results in the worm's code itself, making this calculation dubious.  I'd
> >place that number somewhere between WAG and spot-on.
> >
> >What's odd about the percentages of OS versions in the article I linked to
> >is how much of it is Windows XP SP2, which turned on the firewall and
> >auto-updates by default.  That tells me that the users of these machines
> >received them either very poorly configured or they themselves
> intentionally
> >disabled these security components.
>
> I don't think reports of this fast-spreading worm were "dubious."
>
> I don't think it spreads because people "intentionally disabled these
> security components." There are multiple routes of attack.
>
> Yes, truth telling can be "irritating," but spreading misinformation is
> both irritating and dangerous. The fact is that we have another major
> Windows infection in the wild. It does not hit all Windows machines, but
> it does hit a lot of them.
>
> Attack via autolaunch is particularly troubling to me. This happened to
> Apple back in the days of floppy disks and it was the only virus
> infection ever to hit my office. Apple promptly removed autolaunch and it
> hasn't been back since. Autolaunch trades a small benefit for a big risk.
> Computers should not do this.
>
>
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[CGUYS] * IMPORTANT DMCA REMINDER *

[Tom Piwowar]

We may consider DMCA to be a terrible law, but it is still a law. 
Speaking about "circumvention" is prohibited speech and we do not do it 
here.

If you don't like it, write your Congress creatures and start a petition.

Thanks to all for observing the law of the land.


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Re: [CGUYS] (CERT) Computer Emergency Response Team, US Govt. I

[Tom Piwowar]

>Once again, nobody said that. This is a very irritating habit you have. It
>happens so routinely that I have to wonder if it's intentional.

Then what was this?

>I've read about this estimate and this number was derived from looking at
>results in the worm's code itself, making this calculation dubious.  I'd
>place that number somewhere between WAG and spot-on.
>
>What's odd about the percentages of OS versions in the article I linked to
>is how much of it is Windows XP SP2, which turned on the firewall and
>auto-updates by default.  That tells me that the users of these machines
>received them either very poorly configured or they themselves intentionally
>disabled these security components.

I don't think reports of this fast-spreading worm were "dubious." 

I don't think it spreads because people "intentionally disabled these 
security components." There are multiple routes of attack.

Yes, truth telling can be "irritating," but spreading misinformation is 
both irritating and dangerous. The fact is that we have another major 
Windows infection in the wild. It does not hit all Windows machines, but 
it does hit a lot of them. 

Attack via autolaunch is particularly troubling to me. This happened to 
Apple back in the days of floppy disks and it was the only virus 
infection ever to hit my office. Apple promptly removed autolaunch and it 
hasn't been back since. Autolaunch trades a small benefit for a big risk. 
Computers should not do this.


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Re: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[mike]

As opposed to the thousands of other forums/email lists/podcasts etc she
could have asked?

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 7:56 AM, Tom Piwowar  wrote:

> >can I use Roxio to copy a movie DVD? or do I have to use something like
> >Nero?
>
> That would be illegal so please don't ask such questions here.
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Windows & Active X

[Tom Piwowar]

>And that is what I was trying to do - install the flight
>simulator...  Except that it's not a "general" app, it's special.

The idea of "general" app vs. "special" app is totally foreign to me. All 
apps can do potentially harmful things to a computer so I worry about all 
apps. If there are no safeguards about any random app running I am 
concerned. 

A while back Flash was able to update itself without getting intercepted 
by OS X. I was very unhappy about that and am glad this is no longer the 
case. We really do need to have the OS able to protect itself.

One reason I like hardware applicances is because all their code is in 
firmware. While it can be updated, it is a special process. It sometimes 
even requires that hardware buttons get pressed a certain way, so the 
hardware protects the firmware.


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Re: [CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[Tom Piwowar]

>can I use Roxio to copy a movie DVD? or do I have to use something like 
>Nero?

That would be illegal so please don't ask such questions here.


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[CGUYS] copying a DVD movie disc

[Judy Cosler]

can I use Roxio to copy a movie DVD? or do I have to use something like 
Nero?



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Re: [CGUYS] Windows & Active X

[Wayne Dernoncourt]

Tom Piwowar
>>That's why I prefer to use a limited user for everything on a
>>regular basis, it limits my exposure.  (I picked up this habit
>>years ago when I was a system manager for a PDP & VAX systems.

> That is correct, except when installing software or making
> changes to the system. That is what the admin account is for.

And that is what I was trying to do - install the flight
simulator...  Except that it's not a "general" app, it's special.

-- 
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Wayne D.   | supply this, at least not directly
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