subject:"\[CGUYS\] Iphone"

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 4:07 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote:

 Good analysis and later confirmed by one of the commentators.

 It is also interesting to note how many of the other commentators just won't
 let go of the original story.

  So, what is the original story?  I only saw stories about how the
antenna design of a stock iPhone 4 is flawed in terms of
functionality, meaning that the normal usage of the phone could easily
result in signal degradation.  Seems to be the same summation in the
article you reference.

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 4, Engineering thoughts

Also troublesome was that Apple admitted the problem...

Spin that, Tom.

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 1:07 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote:

 Good analysis and later confirmed by one of the commentators.

 It is also interesting to note how many of the other commentators just
 won't let go of the original story.



 On Jun 28, 2010, at 1:26 PM, John DeCarlo wrote:

 From Steve Gibson (and his recommendation of a reply to read):
 The iPhone 4 Antenna Controversy: Given all the evidence, here's my theory
 in my most recent blog post: http://wp.me/pV3mA-22



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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 4, Engineering thoughts

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 4:26 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote:

 Also troublesome was that Apple admitted the problem...

  Did Apple admit to a problem?  What was the problem that Apple Corp.
admitted to?  I only know of Mr, Jobs mentioning the problem of
purchasers of the device not knowing how to hold it in a manner that
would prevent signal loss although there was nothing in the user
manual about that.  So, even that fairly important oversight in the
manual was evidently not a fault on the part of Apple either as no
apology in any form has been forthcoming of which I am aware.
Therefore, I am at a loss as to what Apple actually admitted to other
than not having enough phones to sell.

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 4, Engineering thoughts

Gripping any mobile phone will result in some attenuation of its antenna
performance, with certain places being worse than others depending on the
placement of the antennas. This is a fact of life for every wireless phone.
If you ever experience this on your iPhone 4, avoid gripping it in the lower
left corner in a way that covers both sides of the black strip in the metal
band, or simply use one of many available cases.

Sure it's great spin, but they admit that holding the phone in the way 90%
of users do will result in signal loss.  Like my phone, if I hold it upside
down and backwards, sideways to my ear so it's unusable, I tend to lose a
little signal.  Holding it like a phone however, I've had no signal loss.

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 1:56 PM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 4:26 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote:

  Also troublesome was that Apple admitted the problem...

   Did Apple admit to a problem?  What was the problem that Apple Corp.
 admitted to?  I only know of Mr, Jobs mentioning the problem of
 purchasers of the device not knowing how to hold it in a manner that
 would prevent signal loss although there was nothing in the user
 manual about that.  So, even that fairly important oversight in the
 manual was evidently not a fault on the part of Apple either as no
 apology in any form has been forthcoming of which I am aware.
 Therefore, I am at a loss as to what Apple actually admitted to other
 than not having enough phones to sell.

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 4, Engineering thoughts

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 5:04 PM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote:

 Gripping any mobile phone will result in some attenuation of its antenna
 performance, with certain places being worse than others depending on the
 placement of the antennas. This is a fact of life for every wireless phone.
 If you ever experience this on your iPhone 4, avoid gripping it in the lower
 left corner in a way that covers both sides of the black strip in the metal
 band, or simply use one of many available cases.

 Sure it's great spin, but they admit that holding the phone in the way 90%
 of users do will result in signal loss.  Like my phone, if I hold it upside
 down and backwards, sideways to my ear so it's unusable, I tend to lose a
 little signal.  Holding it like a phone however, I've had no signal loss.

  Thanks for the information.  However, that is not really the issue
with the iPhone.  The issue is that the new iPhone places the antenna,
or active portions of it, where it can easily come into direct contact
with the hand of the user.  Other phones have their antenna systems
fully insulated and thus not able to directly contact anything
external to the phone itself.  While mere proximity of any external
conductive material can cause a negative effect on an antenna, were
such material to come into direct contact with an antenna, far more
serious problems may ensue.  This is what is happening with the new
iPhone, and this is not the norm for cell phones no matter what Apple
says.

  You say spin, I'll offer disingenuous.

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 4, Engineering thoughts

2010-06-28 Thread tjpa

Read Gibson's analysis and you will understand that this is really a  
very marginal problem. If one has good signal strength it won't matter  
how you hold the phone. If your signal strength is about to go over a  
cliff, anything you do can potentially push you over. One of those  
things is touching the phone in a particular spot.


They have already sold 2,000,000 of the new phones so even a 1 in a  
million problem will have a couple of hits.


Back when I used to listen to a radio while commuting I knew to stand  
in specific spots on the train platform. Moving even a few inches  
would lose the signal.


It is not magic, it is physics.

On Jun 28, 2010, at 6:06 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks for the information.  However, that is not really the issue
with the iPhone.  The issue is that the new iPhone places the antenna,
or active portions of it, where it can easily come into direct contact
with the hand of the user.



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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 4, Engineering thoughts

I say tongue and cheek.  Half of what Jobs says is spin or disingenuous.  At
his heart, he's just a car salesman...good cars though.

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 3:06 PM, phartz...@gmail.com phartz...@gmail.comwrote:



  You say spin, I'll offer disingenuous.

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 4, Engineering thoughts

You are right, and for whatever reason Apple ignored the physics.  I say it
was for form over function, you can deny all you want, but Apple has
admitted the problem.

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 3:24 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote:



 It is not magic, it is physics.


 On Jun 28, 2010, at 6:06 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thanks for the information.  However, that is not really the issue
 with the iPhone.  The issue is that the new iPhone places the antenna,
 or active portions of it, where it can easily come into direct contact
 with the hand of the user.



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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 4, Engineering thoughts

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 6:24 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote:

 It is not magic, it is physics.

  Well, then let us sum this thing up.  In your view, is there
anything whatsoever that is problematic, in terms of the end user of
these phones, about how Apple decided to use an antenna system that is
highly exposed to direct contact with conductive material that is
external to and not a part of the phone itself?

  Should Apple have insulated the antenna from contact with external
conductive material, and made that insulation an integral component of
the basic phone package as opposed to offering a separate accessory
that performs this function that comes in at 15% of the cost of the
phone itself?

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 4, Engineering thoughts

2010-06-28 Thread tjpa


On Jun 28, 2010, at 8:13 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote:

Well, then let us sum this thing up.  In your view, is there
anything whatsoever that is problematic, in terms of the end user of
these phones, about how Apple decided to use an antenna system that is
highly exposed to direct contact with conductive material that is
external to and not a part of the phone itself?


Some people in marginal reception areas are reporting problems. Some  
people who had reception problems with previous models are reporting  
the new model does not have the problem. You need to tell me what  
proportion of the 1.7 million iPhone 4s sold are having this problem  
and where they are geographically. Then compare this to the numbers  
who claim improved reception. Then we can figure out if there is any  
real problem.



 Should Apple have insulated the antenna from contact with external
conductive material, and made that insulation an integral component of
the basic phone package as opposed to offering a separate accessory
that performs this function that comes in at 15% of the cost of the
phone itself?


I would speculate that the purchase price of phone rubbers is not  
being subsidized by ATT.



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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 4, Engineering thoughts

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 8:36 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote:

 On Jun 28, 2010, at 8:13 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote:

 Well, then let us sum this thing up.  In your view, is there
 anything whatsoever that is problematic, in terms of the end user of
 these phones, about how Apple decided to use an antenna system that is
 highly exposed to direct contact with conductive material that is
 external to and not a part of the phone itself?

 Some people in marginal reception areas are reporting problems. Some people
 who had reception problems with previous models are reporting the new model
 does not have the problem. You need to tell me what proportion of the 1.7
 million iPhone 4s sold are having this problem and where they are
 geographically. Then compare this to the numbers who claim improved
 reception. Then we can figure out if there is any real problem.

  A complete non-answer of the question as posed.



  Should Apple have insulated the antenna from contact with external
 conductive material, and made that insulation an integral component of
 the basic phone package as opposed to offering a separate accessory
 that performs this function that comes in at 15% of the cost of the
 phone itself?

 I would speculate that the purchase price of phone rubbers is not being
 subsidized by ATT.

  Another complete non-answer of the question.

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 4, Engineering thoughts

2010-06-28 Thread t.piwowar


On Jun 28, 2010, at 8:45 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote:

 A complete non-answer of the question as posed.



You just won't accept any answer except the one you are promoting. You  
don't want reality to get in the way.




Experiences
http://www.macintouch.com/readerreports/iphone4/index.html#d28jun2010
Peter Dy

i was on a call (more like on hold) today for around 20 min and during  
that time i was trying to drop the call by bridging the left upper and  
lower antennas. in short, i wasn't able to drop the call. i just got  
down to 1 bar and the call sounded just as good as 5 bars.




Robert Wright

I have an 3 year old MotoKRZR k1m cell phone. I am in the process of  
getting an iPhone 4. I can produce the same signal degradation on the  
MotoKRZR by grasping it in various configurations. I suspect this is  
characteristic of all cell phones.




Don Andrachuk

Steve Birchall asked,

...why is this just being noticed on the 4th generation iPhone, and  
seems to have not been noticed by users of any other cell phone?


Good question! The issue exists for many, if not most, cellphones to  
varying degrees. This article points out similar findings with the  
Nexus One and a Nokia handset:


http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/24/other-mobile-phones-with-similar-signal-loss-issues/



etc. etc.


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 4, Engineering thoughts

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 10:02 PM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote:

 ...why is this just being noticed on the 4th generation iPhone, and seems
 to have not been noticed by users of any other cell phone?

 Good question! The issue exists for many, if not most, cellphones to varying
 degrees. This article points out similar findings with the Nexus One and a
 Nokia handset:

 http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/24/other-mobile-phones-with-similar-signal-loss-issues/

  Nobody, myself included, has denied the potential for signal
degradation were a conductive material to alter the normal
characteristics of a cell phone antenna.  An antenna that is directly
exposed to conductive material is more subject to such adversity as is
an antenna of the same design that is shielded, to one degree or
another, from such direct exposure.  To wit, the simple application of
a piece of tape, serving as insulation, over the portion of the iPhone
that causes some signal degradation can fix the problem in many,
perhaps most cases.  To my way of thinking, this is something that
Apple should have taken into consideration in a manner other than
drooling over all the extra money they could make from those bumper
accessories.

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 4, Engineering thoughts

On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 1:09 AM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote:

 You clearly did not read 2/3s of my last post. Here is another quote...

  I read it, the whole thing.  I think that you understand the point
about why it is best not to have an antenna of any sort or for any use
coming into direct contact with conductive material of undetermined
capacitive and/or conductive characteristics if it can be avoided.
Even some of the very articles that you have referred to maintain that
same thing.  However, you simply refuse to say that Apple could have
done better in this instance, thus I am left to puzzle over why you
take such an intransigent position on something that is so obvious.

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] iphone 4, running with the herd

2010-06-26 Thread MrMike6by9

From a fav website - http://www.everythingicafe.com/

Is An Antenna Fix Just Around The Corner With iOS 4.01?

by Tim Barribeau on June 26, 2010

AppleInsider is reporting a rumor that Apple is pushing through an iOS
update at full speed, which will hopefully fix the reception issue that
comes from holding the iPhone in the wrong way. The fix would arrive early
next week (maybe as soon as Monday) in the form of iOS 4.01, as was
discussed in a now deleted thread on the Apple support forums. So how is
this going to fix what appears to be a hardware issue?

The fix is expected to address a issue in iOS 4 related to radio frequency
calibration of the baseband. Readers who saw the original forum discussions
say that the issue is believed to occur when switching frequencies; because
the lag is allegedly not calibrated correctly, it results in the device
reporting “no service” rather than switching to the frequency with the best
signal to noise ratio.

Hopefully, it will also fix the poorly calibrated proximity sensor.

PS - They are doing maintenance on the Forums at the moment. Later, I can
post a link to a thread with real world experiences with this. As a
left-handed user, I am concerned enough to stick with my GS on iOS 4 until
things shake out.

YMMV
--

 Date:Fri, 25 Jun 2010 09:05:22 -0700
 From:mike xha...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: iphone 4, running with the herd

 I've heard both, that is is dropping calls, but the fix is software not
 hardware.

 On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:54 AM, Stewart Marshall 
 revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote:

 NO with these reports are the fact that calls get dropped when the person
 does this.

 Apple has confirmed that the antenna is in this area, and people should,
 hold their phones differently.

 Stewart



 At 10:48 AM 6/25/2010, you wrote:

 There is speculation that part of the problem may be with the software
 that displays the bars.

 Sent from my iPad

 On Jun 25, 2010, at 11:01 AM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote:
  We did verify the same
  problem that is being reported everywhere, holding the phone as any
 normal
  right handed person would hold it, in about 20 seconds all bars
 disappear
  from the meter at the top of the phone, we didn't check to see how it
  actually affected use, spose that will come out later.



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Re: [CGUYS] iphone 4, running with the herd

2010-06-26 Thread mike

I've seen this in some of the forums regarding the issue..calling it a lefty
issue as if there are so few left handed people that it's not a huge
problem.  I don't know about right handers on the list, but I hold my phone
almost exclusively with my left hand.  Anyone else?

On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 6:50 AM, MrMike6by9 mrmike6...@gmail.com wrote:



 PS - They are doing maintenance on the Forums at the moment. Later, I can
 post a link to a thread with real world experiences with this. As a
 left-handed user, I am concerned enough to stick with my GS on iOS 4 until
 things shake out.




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Re: [CGUYS] iphone 4, running with the herd

2010-06-26 Thread Rev. Stewart Marshall

Yes although a right hander I use my left hand for phone calling 
almost exclusively.


I think it also has to do with hearing problems in the right one.

Stewart


At 09:27 AM 6/26/2010, you wrote:

I've seen this in some of the forums regarding the issue..calling it a lefty
issue as if there are so few left handed people that it's not a huge
problem.  I don't know about right handers on the list, but I hold my phone
almost exclusively with my left hand.  Anyone else?

On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 6:50 AM, MrMike6by9 mrmike6...@gmail.com wrote:



 PS - They are doing maintenance on the Forums at the moment. Later, I can
 post a link to a thread with real world experiences with this. As a
 left-handed user, I am concerned enough to stick with my GS on iOS 4 until
 things shake out.




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Re: [CGUYS] iphone 4, running with the herd

2010-06-26 Thread TJPA

Jobs is a leftie. Some of their gear definitely favors lefties. And sometimes 
it does not. 

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 26, 2010, at 10:27 AM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote:

 I've seen this in some of the forums regarding the issue..calling it a lefty
 issue as if there are so few left handed people that it's not a huge
 problem.  I don't know about right handers on the list, but I hold my phone
 almost exclusively with my left hand.  Anyone else?


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Re: [CGUYS] iphone 4, running with the herd

2010-06-26 Thread MrMike6by9

Well, for my part, this is a deal breaker unless and until. I use my left
hand for all the important things in my life. The right is for mousing,
scissors, and cleaning up so that means I have no plans for visiting certain
countries ... hehehe

YMMV

Being awake at 3:30am wouldn't be so bad if it weren't in the middle of the
night.
- - Chris Pirillo


On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 12:05 PM, TJPA t...@tjpa.com wrote:

 Jobs is a leftie. Some of their gear definitely favors lefties. And
 sometimes it does not.

 Sent from my iPad

 On Jun 26, 2010, at 10:27 AM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote:

  I've seen this in some of the forums regarding the issue..calling it a
 lefty
  issue as if there are so few left handed people that it's not a huge
  problem.  I don't know about right handers on the list, but I hold my
 phone
  almost exclusively with my left hand.  Anyone else?




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[CGUYS] iphone 4, running with the herd

2010-06-25 Thread mike

I went with a friend to pick up his new iphone last night at a local Apple
store.  We went in the evening and all the walk in phones had been sold so
the store wasn't too busy.  We waited only about ten minutes before a
smiling Apple employee, holding the iphone above her head gathered us up
from the front of the store to an area near the back to make the sale.  Took
about ten more minutes to verify his info, process the payment and then
maybe 30 seconds for him to plug it into a macbook and get it activated by
ATT.  By the time we walked passed the entrance on the way out, his phone
was ready to go.  He reluctantly handed me the phone...it is a thing of
beauty no doubt.  It's solid, retro and future looking in one very slim
package.  The old iphone, which IMO has looked dated for over a year looks
even more dated, almost ugly compared to this new sparkling iphone.  He got
the black one...no stormtrooper version available.  Turning it on, the
screen is striking, the water droplet backdrop is a perfect starting point
to see the new detail of the screen.  The phone was responsive...as it
should be with the same CPU as the iPad and twice the ram, and a lot of fun
to use.  The camera took good pictures..at least at the restaurant we were
at, they looked as good as any point and shoot.  We did verify the same
problem that is being reported everywhere, holding the phone as any normal
right handed person would hold it, in about 20 seconds all bars disappear
from the meter at the top of the phone, we didn't check to see how it
actually affected use, spose that will come out later.  Apple's response has
been 'don't hold it like that.'  Um...yeah.  I also spent about 15 more
minutes with an iPad, which puts me only about an hour of use with one of
these...I still don't see it as more than a toy, and honestly in full view
of the new iPhone, the iPad looks dated.

PS

I installed iOS 4 on my 2nd gen iPod touch, I'd not recommend it.  The app
store among a couple of others has quit and returned me to the main screen
several times, the ipod while overall faster, is also jerkier in response.
I've also run into having over 40 msgs in my email box via google on the
ipod that contain no data, but yet exist and cannot be deleted.  These msgs
do not show up on the web gmail interface nor my android phone.


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Re: [CGUYS] iphone 4, running with the herd

2010-06-25 Thread TJPA

There is speculation that part of the problem may be with the software that 
displays the bars. 

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 25, 2010, at 11:01 AM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote:
 We did verify the same
 problem that is being reported everywhere, holding the phone as any normal
 right handed person would hold it, in about 20 seconds all bars disappear
 from the meter at the top of the phone, we didn't check to see how it
 actually affected use, spose that will come out later.


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Re: [CGUYS] iphone 4, running with the herd

2010-06-25 Thread Stewart Marshall

NO with these reports are the fact that calls get dropped when the 
person does this.


Apple has confirmed that the antenna is in this area, and people 
should, hold their phones differently.


Stewart


At 10:48 AM 6/25/2010, you wrote:
There is speculation that part of the problem may be with the 
software that displays the bars.


Sent from my iPad

On Jun 25, 2010, at 11:01 AM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote:
 We did verify the same
 problem that is being reported everywhere, holding the phone as any normal
 right handed person would hold it, in about 20 seconds all bars disappear
 from the meter at the top of the phone, we didn't check to see how it
 actually affected use, spose that will come out later.


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Re: [CGUYS] iphone 4, running with the herd

2010-06-25 Thread mike

I've heard both, that is is dropping calls, but the fix is software not
hardware.

On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 8:54 AM, Stewart Marshall 
revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote:

 NO with these reports are the fact that calls get dropped when the person
 does this.

 Apple has confirmed that the antenna is in this area, and people should,
 hold their phones differently.

 Stewart



 At 10:48 AM 6/25/2010, you wrote:

 There is speculation that part of the problem may be with the software
 that displays the bars.

 Sent from my iPad

 On Jun 25, 2010, at 11:01 AM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote:
  We did verify the same
  problem that is being reported everywhere, holding the phone as any
 normal
  right handed person would hold it, in about 20 seconds all bars
 disappear
  from the meter at the top of the phone, we didn't check to see how it
  actually affected use, spose that will come out later.


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Re: [CGUYS] iphone 4, running with the herd

2010-06-25 Thread Stewart Marshall

Sorry there are so many stories out about it right now hard to keep 
them straight.


Thought they would have done more real world testing on it before releasing it.

I read an article that said this one seems to have more problems than usual.

Stewart


At 11:08 AM 6/25/2010, you wrote:
You are mixing up two stories. How you grab any phone does matter 
and even walking around with the phone does matter. But the story of 
the number of bars changing when the iPhone is touched a certain way 
is suspected to be a different issue.


Sent from my iPad

On Jun 25, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Stewart Marshall 
revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote:


 NO with these reports are the fact that calls get dropped when 
the person does this.



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Re: [CGUYS] iphone 4, running with the herd

2010-06-25 Thread mike

I've never owned a phone you couldn't hold as a *phone* and have it not
work.  This seems like a strange problem to have slipped by Apple, hopefully
it is just a software glitch and can be fixed by an update.

On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 9:08 AM, TJPA t...@tjpa.com wrote:

 You are mixing up two stories. How you grab any phone does matter and even
 walking around with the phone does matter. But the story of the number of
 bars changing when the iPhone is touched a certain way is suspected to be a
 different issue.

 Sent from my iPad

 On Jun 25, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Stewart Marshall 
 revsamarsh...@earthlink.net wrote:

  NO with these reports are the fact that calls get dropped when the person
 does this.


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Re: [CGUYS] iphone 4, running with the herd

2010-06-25 Thread TJPA

Someone always writes that.

I was having connection problems with my iPad. It turned out to be a problem 
with my old access point. A guy at Engadget wrote that this was the first time 
an iPhone had worked at his apartment and it worked great there. Connection 
problems are hard to figure out. 

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 25, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Stewart Marshall revsamarsh...@earthlink.net 
wrote:
 I read an article that said this one seems to have more problems than usual.


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[CGUYS] iPhone/MS deal about to close?

2010-01-20 Thread mike

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jan2010/tc20100119_759795.htm

BW is saying bing may become the default search engine on the iphonecan
you hear Tom scream yet?


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone/MS deal about to close?

2010-01-20 Thread John Duncan Yoyo

On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 2:46 AM, mike xha...@gmail.com wrote:


 http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jan2010/tc20100119_759795.htm

 BW is saying bing may become the default search engine on the iphonecan
 you hear Tom scream yet?

 So the Apple has tricked the snake into the garden...

-- 
John Duncan Yoyo
---o)


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone/MS deal about to close?

2010-01-20 Thread tjpa


On Jan 20, 2010, at 2:46 AM, mike wrote:
BW is saying bing may become the default search engine on the  
iphonecan

you hear Tom scream yet?


Sigh, not scream.

M$ continues to be unable to compete on product quality so has to  
throw its money around to buy customers.


An effective strategy for Windows-using sheeple, but will independent- 
thinking Mac users go along or will they go out of their way to avoid  
Bing?



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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone/MS deal about to close?

2010-01-20 Thread mike

Good thing Apple is around to give MS their sheeple then I guess.

On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 3:36 PM, tjpa t...@tjpa.com wrote:

 On Jan 20, 2010, at 2:46 AM, mike wrote:

 BW is saying bing may become the default search engine on the
 iphonecan
 you hear Tom scream yet?


 Sigh, not scream.

 M$ continues to be unable to compete on product quality so has to throw its
 money around to buy customers.

 An effective strategy for Windows-using sheeple, but will
 independent-thinking Mac users go along or will they go out of their way to
 avoid Bing?



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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone/MS deal about to close?

2010-01-20 Thread MrMike6by9

 Subject: iPhone/MS deal about to close?

 http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jan2010/tc20100119_759795.htm

 BW is saying bing may become the default search engine on the iphonecan
 you hear Tom scream yet?


I read the forums at www.everythingicafe.com several times a day.

I first heard of this default search engine thing regarding the deal
that pushed Bing onto Verizon cellphones a short while ago. Folks
expressed worry that this sort of change could be mandatory. It
becomes most onerous when stuff breaks the functioning of the device
the user has relied on. As long as the user can still select a
default, (search engine in this case) people don't seem as worried.
The fear is that this move is further evidence that a permanent ban on
Google products might be in the offing for users who don't feel
comfortable about jailbreaking their iPhones. I, for one, wish to
continue having the freedom to use Google products on my iPhone and on
my MBP.

YMMV

The value of an idea has nothing to do with the honesty of the man
expressing it.
 -- Oscar Wilde


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[CGUYS] iPhone overtakes Windows Mobile

2009-12-17 Thread tjp


http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/12/16/active.iphone.users.outnumber.win.mobile/

The number of active iPhone users in the US has passed that of  
Windows Mobile for the first time, new data from comScore shows. After  
just pulling even with Microsoft in July, Apple's smartphone platform  
jumped to an average of 8.97 million current users in October, well  
ahead of Microsoft's 7.13 million. The iPhone has regularly had higher  
market share now has also surpassed Windows Mobile devices in its  
actual user base. now has also surpassed Windows Mobile devices in its  
actual user base.



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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone overtakes Windows Mobile

2009-12-17 Thread mike

Bout time...WM sucks...bad...

You can see Balmer being an idiot for that first week or so the iPhone was
out after he laughed about Apple putting out a smartphone...but it took him
what?  Almost two years to kick some ass in the WM group and it's going to
be another year before we see devices?  And then WM might still suck?

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 3:09 PM, tjp t...@tjpa.com wrote:


 http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/12/16/active.iphone.users.outnumber.win.mobile/

 The number of active iPhone users in the US has passed that of Windows
 Mobile for the first time, new data from comScore shows. After just pulling
 even with Microsoft in July, Apple's smartphone platform jumped to an
 average of 8.97 million current users in October, well ahead of Microsoft's
 7.13 million. The iPhone has regularly had higher market share now has also
 surpassed Windows Mobile devices in its actual user base. now has also
 surpassed Windows Mobile devices in its actual user base.


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone multitasking

2009-11-08 Thread MrMike6by9

Just a brief comment. If I switch to another app on the iPhone from a
Apple native app such as Safari, Safari will bring up the last page
viewed when I return to it. The iPod player works the same way.
Non-native apps start from the beginning. I can listen to a radio
station with Ootunes on the phone but I cannot read my email at the
same time. When I return to Ootunes, it does resume that last station
but it cannot play in the background while I'm viewing email. The
Sirius app has the same limitation. The iPhone does multitask but only
with the default, native apps.

YMMV

--
It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
 - William G. McAdoo


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone multitasking

2009-11-08 Thread mike

YMMV for sure.  I don't want apps to stop when I move to another, that's the
point.  It's not multitasking, it's resuming.

On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 12:43 PM, MrMike6by9 mrmike6...@gmail.com wrote:

 Just a brief comment. If I switch to another app on the iPhone from a
 Apple native app such as Safari, Safari will bring up the last page
 viewed when I return to it. The iPod player works the same way.
 Non-native apps start from the beginning. I can listen to a radio
 station with Ootunes on the phone but I cannot read my email at the
 same time. When I return to Ootunes, it does resume that last station
 but it cannot play in the background while I'm viewing email. The
 Sirius app has the same limitation. The iPhone does multitask but only
 with the default, native apps.

 YMMV

 --
 It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
  - William G. McAdoo


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone multitasking

2009-11-08 Thread tjpa


On Nov 8, 2009, at 2:43 PM, MrMike6by9 wrote:

Just a brief comment. If I switch to another app on the iPhone from a
Apple native app such as Safari, Safari will bring up the last page
viewed when I return to it. The iPod player works the same way.
Non-native apps start from the beginning. I can listen to a radio
station with Ootunes on the phone but I cannot read my email at the
same time. When I return to Ootunes, it does resume that last station
but it cannot play in the background while I'm viewing email. The
Sirius app has the same limitation. The iPhone does multitask but only
with the default, native apps.



I suspect this is a marketing tactic. Apple adds features to its iPods  
and iPhones quite regularly, but seems to be in no hurry. I guess they  
don't need to hurry as long as they have no real competition. Instead  
they make each successive mode a little more appealing than the  
previous. This encourages people to upgrade. Put another way: Apple's  
only competition is Apple so they can manage the introduction of  
features at a rate that benefits them the most.



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[CGUYS] Iphone

2009-11-05 Thread Stewart Marshall


Someone is not happy with the Iphone.

http://finance.yahoo.com/family-home/article/108096/brit-Blog-names-iPhone-worlds-worst.html?mod=family-love_money

Stewart


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[CGUYS] iPhone unlimited [was online storage]

2009-11-04 Thread b_s-wilk


In WA state, unlimited calling and a data plan for an  iPhone is $130/ mo.
It's only $70 / mo where you are?



Cavan [and some of my friends] has an iPhone 3G with unlimited data, and 
450 minutes with rollover. He texts using the data plan or WiFi rather 
than SMS, but has the additional text package for when it's more 
convenient. Cost is $39.99 voice + $30 data + $5 texts [but taxes add 
another $10 or so to the bill]. He has lots of rollover minutes, even 
though he was voted 'most talkative' in high school. He lives near DC, 
I'm in eastern Maryland near Delaware border [20 miles south and 5 miles 
east of the Mason-Dixon line].


Do you really need unlimited calling? We pay per call on our land line 
and mobile PAYGO and it's much cheaper than unlimited calling, even 
though we often make 30 minute to 1 hour phone calls, sometimes 
overseas. For non-local and overseas calls we use a prepaid phone card. 
The connection number and ID code are programmed into our phones, so 
it's easy to use the calling card, and very cheap. You can even use 
calling cards from your cell phone to make cheap overseas calls.


Betty


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone unlimited [was online storage]

2009-11-04 Thread db

But that's the problem... when you have access to no other phone and you 
are conducting business ... the minutes rack up. 


You can't text a client when what  they want is  to talk to you...

Unlimited is for $130 the next step above 1300 minutes (or whatever that 
figure is... I can't remember) is the only cost effective iPhone 
plan available here.   Someone said they  only paid $70 for  unlimited 
minutes... and I was curious about that.


Are you suggesting to carry a PayGo phone with another number too to 
make outgoing calls with?

That seems to defeat the purpose.

db

b_s-wilk wrote:
In WA state, unlimited calling and a data plan for an  iPhone is 
$130/ mo.

It's only $70 / mo where you are?



Cavan [and some of my friends] has an iPhone 3G with unlimited data, 
and 450 minutes with rollover. He texts using the data plan or WiFi 
rather than SMS, but has the additional text package for when it's 
more convenient. Cost is $39.99 voice + $30 data + $5 texts [but taxes 
add another $10 or so to the bill]. He has lots of rollover minutes, 
even though he was voted 'most talkative' in high school. He lives 
near DC, I'm in eastern Maryland near Delaware border [20 miles south 
and 5 miles east of the Mason-Dixon line].


Do you really need unlimited calling? We pay per call on our land line 
and mobile PAYGO and it's much cheaper than unlimited calling, even 
though we often make 30 minute to 1 hour phone calls, sometimes 
overseas. For non-local and overseas calls we use a prepaid phone 
card. The connection number and ID code are programmed into our 
phones, so it's easy to use the calling card, and very cheap. You can 
even use calling cards from your cell phone to make cheap overseas calls.


Betty


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone unlimited [was online storage]

2009-11-04 Thread mike

Sprint has a deal now, 70 for unlimited data/sms/mms and 450 mins.  But you
get unlimited minutes to any mobile.  For me that means unlimited minutes, I
don't call any landlines.  For 99 on sprint you get the same deal but true
unlimited minutes.  It's not a bad deal if your job either subsidizes it, or
the cost of the service is offset by the money made from it.

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 2:16 PM, db db...@att.net wrote:

 But that's the problem... when you have access to no other phone and you
 are conducting business ... the minutes rack up.
 You can't text a client when what  they want is  to talk to you...

 Unlimited is for $130 the next step above 1300 minutes (or whatever that
 figure is... I can't remember) is the only cost effective iPhone plan
 available here.   Someone said they  only paid $70 for  unlimited minutes...
 and I was curious about that.

 Are you suggesting to carry a PayGo phone with another number too to make
 outgoing calls with?
 That seems to defeat the purpose.

 db


 b_s-wilk wrote:

 In WA state, unlimited calling and a data plan for an  iPhone is $130/ mo.
 It's only $70 / mo where you are?



 Cavan [and some of my friends] has an iPhone 3G with unlimited data, and
 450 minutes with rollover. He texts using the data plan or WiFi rather than
 SMS, but has the additional text package for when it's more convenient. Cost
 is $39.99 voice + $30 data + $5 texts [but taxes add another $10 or so to
 the bill]. He has lots of rollover minutes, even though he was voted 'most
 talkative' in high school. He lives near DC, I'm in eastern Maryland near
 Delaware border [20 miles south and 5 miles east of the Mason-Dixon line].

 Do you really need unlimited calling? We pay per call on our land line and
 mobile PAYGO and it's much cheaper than unlimited calling, even though we
 often make 30 minute to 1 hour phone calls, sometimes overseas. For
 non-local and overseas calls we use a prepaid phone card. The connection
 number and ID code are programmed into our phones, so it's easy to use the
 calling card, and very cheap. You can even use calling cards from your cell
 phone to make cheap overseas calls.

 Betty


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone unlimited [was online storage]

2009-11-04 Thread betty

But that's the problem... when you have access to no other phone and you are conducting
business ... the minutes rack up.

You can't text a client when what they want is to talk to you...

Unlimited is for $130 the next step above 1300 minutes (or whatever that figure is... I
can't remember) is the only cost effective iPhone plan available here. Someone said
they only paid $70 for unlimited minutes... and I was curious about that.

Are you suggesting to carry a PayGo phone with another number too to make outgoing
calls with?

That seems to defeat the purpose.

You didn't say that this was for business. The cost of your phone is a deductible expense,
so does the extra $30-40 matter? Sprint, Alltel and Nextel's unlimited talk is $99,
Verizon's is $119. T-Mobile's unlimited talk plans start at $50. Boost PAYGO unlimited is
$50. Even Net10 has unlimited talk for $80. Do you have to use an iPhone or is another
smart or not so smart phone acceptable?

I have an iPod Touch and a Nokia phone. They have different purposes and give me more
features than the iPhone alone [but my son vehemently disagrees]; and it will be much
better when I get a Nokia smart phone. Consider your needs before you choose your devices.
Gotta have an iPhone? Get a Touch and a basic or not so basic phone. My new phone will be
like this, http://www.unwiredview.com/2008/11/08/nokia-n79-review/.

What do you really need?

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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone unlimited [was online storage]

2009-11-04 Thread Rev. Stewart Marshall


You can only deduct Cell phone expenses if it is required for you to carry.

I do not take business expenses, plus it is not required for me to 
have one for my job.  Others might deduct it, but I don't play games 
with my taxes and the IRS.


Stewart


At 09:21 PM 11/4/2009, you wrote:
You didn't say that this was for business. The cost of your phone is 
a deductible expense, so does the extra $30-40 matter? Sprint, 
Alltel and Nextel's unlimited talk is $99, Verizon's is $119. 
T-Mobile's unlimited talk plans start at $50. Boost PAYGO unlimited 
is $50. Even Net10 has unlimited talk for $80. Do you have to use an 
iPhone or is another smart or not so smart phone acceptable?


I have an iPod Touch and a Nokia phone. They have different purposes 
and give me more features than the iPhone alone [but my son 
vehemently disagrees]; and it will be much better when I get a Nokia 
smart phone. Consider your needs before you choose your devices. 
Gotta have an iPhone? Get a Touch and a basic or not so basic phone. 
My new phone will be like this, 
http://www.unwiredview.com/2008/11/08/nokia-n79-review/.


What do you really need?



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[CGUYS] iphone photo app

2009-09-25 Thread mike

Does anyone know of an app, preferably free, that will allow you to view
jpegs full size on the iphone/ipod touch?  Apple's resizing doesn't play
well with some photos I wish to see in detail.


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

2009-08-01 Thread TPiwowar


On Jul 31, 2009, at 7:18 PM, mike wrote:

Next day, six weeks...whatever...


I accept your resignation.




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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

2009-08-01 Thread mike

You must have missed the part where apple was notified of this security
issue weeks ago...I know you wouldn't choose to ignore facts like that.

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 8:01 AM, TPiwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote:

 On Jul 31, 2009, at 7:18 PM, mike wrote:

 Next day, six weeks...whatever...


 I accept your resignation.





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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

2009-07-31 Thread TPiwowar


On Jul 29, 2009, at 7:53 AM, Jeff Wright wrote:

iPhone SMS attack to be unleashed at Black Hat


Apple on Friday released iPhone Software Update 3.0.1, which fixes  
the SMS vulnerability demonstrated at the Black Hat security  
conference on Thursday.


Next-day service on security fixes. Hard to beat that!




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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

2009-07-31 Thread mike

Next day, six weeks...whatever...



On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 4:00 PM, TPiwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote:

 On Jul 29, 2009, at 7:53 AM, Jeff Wright wrote:

 iPhone SMS attack to be unleashed at Black Hat


 Apple on Friday released iPhone Software Update 3.0.1, which fixes the SMS
 vulnerability demonstrated at the Black Hat security conference on
 Thursday.

 Next-day service on security fixes. Hard to beat that!





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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

2009-07-29 Thread Jeff Wright

 iPhone owners, of course, have nothing to worry about on these grounds.

Oh no, nothing at all.

iPhone SMS attack to be unleashed at Black Hat
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9136012/iPhone_SMS_attack_to_be_unlea
shed_at_Black_Hat?source=rss_news


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

 Also check out Zdziarski's website for a lengthy attack on health
 care reform...
 http://www.zdziarski.com/

I'm sure in your twisted world-view, this is supposed to be an indictment of
his intelligence or trustworthiness.  Don't let those tarring skills go to
waste

Thanks for the tip. He's actually radically improving my opinion of MFBs.


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

 The trick is to install an alternative kernel (operating system) on
 the device and then copy the data off. I don't know that there is any
 computer that can't be defeated this way.

That's not the point.  The point was to demonstrate how easy it is to hack a
device that someone drags with them everywhere.

The article also illustrated how any app in the App store could be perverted
once it was approved for use.

 For years we've cracked
 Windows passwords by mounting the drive with a Linux kernel. The Mac
 OS DVD includes a utility to reset passwords. This is not news.

Very true.  But his point is how pathetic the encryption is on the iPhone.
He was able to do it so quickly, it could be done while you go to the
bathroom at a restaurant and leave your iPhone behind.  I can easily
envision a corporate/guvmint espionage scenario involving switching out
iPhones for the purpose on stealing sensitive information.

I expect to see this demonstrated on Burn Notice soon.

 If
 you have lost physical control of your computer you have lost the
 data too. I guess this will be news to boneheaded IT directors, but
 should not be news to anyone on this List.

I'm guessing that the article was intended for an audience a little bigger
than this list.  Feeling a such swagger in your ego so that your world is
defined by this list?  Is this 1995-AOL-envy?

Maybe, just maybe, it was intended for the gibbering fanbois who insist on
using a consumer-level product as an enterprise device.  I recall many posts
and articles by boneheaded IT directors who were concerned early on about
the iPhone's lax security and how they were shut down by the gibbering
fanboi CEO and/or pressure from fanboi staff who insisted on bringing them
into the enterprise.

My Blackberry has 256-bit AES encryption and can wipe itself when
disconnected from the server for too long, as when a simple thief swipes it
for resale later.  I haven't read anything about how easily p0wned they are
either.

There are many, many options for centrally managing and securing
Blackberries that iPhones simply don't have.  A BB can be config'ed to wipe
after x number of bad passwords attempts.
 
 iPhones can be remotely told to wipe their drives. That is probably
 your best defense.

Something easily defeated by removing the SIM card.  

Are you sure you read the article?


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

2009-07-25 Thread Jordan


Yet another belligerent ass!

t.piwowar wrote:
Also check out Zdziarski's website for a lengthy attack on health care 
reform...

http://www.zdziarski.com/




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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

2009-07-25 Thread Mike


But a correct belligerent ass.

Sent from my iPod

On Jul 25, 2009, at 6:59 AM, Jordan jor17...@gmail.com wrote:


Yet another belligerent ass!

t.piwowar wrote:
Also check out Zdziarski's website for a lengthy attack on health  
care reform...

http://www.zdziarski.com/




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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

2009-07-25 Thread Jordan


Yet another belligerent ass!

Mike wrote:

But a correct belligerent ass.

Sent from my iPod

On Jul 25, 2009, at 6:59 AM, Jordan jor17...@gmail.com wrote:


Yet another belligerent ass!

t.piwowar wrote:






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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

Being an ass doesn't piss people off, it's when they are right they get
angry about it...see Jordan for details.  :)

On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Jordan jor17...@gmail.com wrote:

 Yet another belligerent ass!

 Mike wrote:

 But a correct belligerent ass.

 Sent from my iPod

 On Jul 25, 2009, at 6:59 AM, Jordan jor17...@gmail.com wrote:

  Yet another belligerent ass!

 t.piwowar wrote:




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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless


On Jul 25, 2009, at 9:49 AM, Jeff Wright wrote:
That's not the point.  The point was to demonstrate how easy it is  
to hack a

device that someone drags with them everywhere.


On Jul 25, 2009, at 9:49 AM, Jeff Wright wrote:
Very true.  But his point is how pathetic the encryption is on the  
iPhone.


As I read my email, I'm listening to NPR's This American Life. The  
story is about Iranian interrogators and how they beat bizarre  
confessions out of poor innocents. I couldn't help seeing a parallel  
to Jeff's railings. THAT'S NOT THE POINT. CONFESS! CONFESS!


What I said is precisely the point. If you lose physical control of  
any device, the information in the device can be hacked by someone  
who is an expert. In some cases (e.g. Windows) you don't even have to  
be an expert: a quick Google search will lead to quick and easy methods.


This is nothing that is unique to the iPhone. It is just one more  
example of something we should all already know.


What is noteworthy is that Apple is trying to do better than average.  
It does encrypt data in a way that requires an experienced hacker to  
bypass and it does provide a way to remotely erase the stored data. I  
spit on the Supreme Ayatollah.



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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless


On Jul 25, 2009, at 12:35 PM, mike wrote:
Being an ass doesn't piss people off, it's when they are right they  
get

angry about it...see Jordan for details.  :)


And this guy is definitely far right.

To deserve our attention it takes a lot more than the ability to pull  
off a minor computer trick. We judge people by the whole of what they  
do.



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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless


A more important story to be watching...
Microsoft to fix critical hole in IE
http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-10295592-245.html

Note that M$ has admitted to a serious problem, but has not issued  
any fix.


iPhone owners, of course, have nothing to worry about on these grounds.


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

 We judge people by the whole of what they do.

Or in your case, what they believe.

He's a double heretic!  Shun him!  Shun him!


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

And you are left...it's not about right or left, the first question should
be, is the info correct?  The next is, do I care?  I've read many parts of
the bill, those things he lists are in it...so the question is, do you care?

On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 10:03 AM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote:

 On Jul 25, 2009, at 12:35 PM, mike wrote:

 Being an ass doesn't piss people off, it's when they are right they get
 angry about it...see Jordan for details.  :)


 And this guy is definitely far right.

 To deserve our attention it takes a lot more than the ability to pull off a
 minor computer trick. We judge people by the whole of what they do.



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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless


On Jul 25, 2009, at 1:14 PM, mike wrote:

I've read many parts of
the bill, those things he lists are in it...so the question is, do  
you care?


Propaganda. There is no bill at this point. There are at least 3 very  
different proposed bills circulating.



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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

 What I said is precisely the point. If you lose physical control of
 any device, the information in the device can be hacked by someone
 who is an expert. In some cases (e.g. Windows) you don't even have to
 be an expert: a quick Google search will lead to quick and easy methods.

REMAIN CALM!  ALL IS WELL!

 This is nothing that is unique to the iPhone. It is just one more
 example of something we should all already know.

NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS.  MOVE ALONG, MOVE ALONG.

 What is noteworthy is that Apple is trying to do better than average.
 It does encrypt data in a way that requires an experienced hacker to
 bypass and it does provide a way to remotely erase the stored data.

WE'RE STRIVING FOR A C+.

 I spit on the Supreme Ayatollah.

THERE'S AN APP FOR THAT.


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

 iPhone owners, of course, have nothing to worry about on these grounds.

Oh no, nothing at all.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=enrls=com.microsoft%3Aen-usq=iphone+vulner
abilitiesaq=foq=aqi=

Results 1 - 10 of about 2,620,000 for iphone vulnerabilities. (0.13 seconds)


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

Who uses IE?

On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 10:15 AM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote:

 A more important story to be watching...
 Microsoft to fix critical hole in IE
 http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-10295592-245.html

 Note that M$ has admitted to a serious problem, but has not issued any fix.

 iPhone owners, of course, have nothing to worry about on these grounds.



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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

As I said, you are far left and carrying the big O's water, move along don't
pay attention, we'll pass another 1000 page bill in hours before anyone can
read it.  Keeping it somewhat on our grounds, O was supposed to post bills
online for five days for public comment before passage...guess that's not
happening.

On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 10:39 AM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote:

 On Jul 25, 2009, at 1:14 PM, mike wrote:

 I've read many parts of
 the bill, those things he lists are in it...so the question is, do you
 care?


 Propaganda. There is no bill at this point. There are at least 3 very
 different proposed bills circulating.



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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

Not only that the Senate has not passed anything yet and if it does 
it all goes to a conference committee, and you never know what will 
come out of one of those.


I am just hoping they come up with something that will help us middle 
class folks whose insurance is higher than all get out.


Stewart


At 12:39 PM 7/25/2009, you wrote:


Propaganda. There is no bill at this point. There are at least 3 very
different proposed bills circulating.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

All these things are dynamic, but the website listed some details in the
bills that are proposed.  Keep the faith Rev, God knows I have none when it
comes to the rats in DC.

On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall 
popoz...@earthlink.net wrote:

 Not only that the Senate has not passed anything yet and if it does it all
 goes to a conference committee, and you never know what will come out of one
 of those.

 I am just hoping they come up with something that will help us middle class
 folks whose insurance is higher than all get out.

 Stewart


 At 12:39 PM 7/25/2009, you wrote:

  Propaganda. There is no bill at this point. There are at least 3 very
 different proposed bills circulating.


 Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
 mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
 Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
 Ozark, AL  SL 82



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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

2009-07-25 Thread Chris Dunford

 Who uses IE?

I do. I like IE8 a lot. It's the first version of IE I've ever liked.


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

I still can't get past not having search plug ins.  I might use chrome or
safari if it just had some good search options.

On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Chris Dunford seed...@gmail.com wrote:

  Who uses IE?

 I do. I like IE8 a lot. It's the first version of IE I've ever liked.


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

 I still can't get past not having search plug ins.  I might use chrome or
 safari if it just had some good search options.

Search works fine.  It's not having add-ons like Adblock and NoScript that
sinks IE for me.

I also like how Firefox will spell-check forum/blog postings on the fly.


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

Search doesn't work fine unless I just want one search engine...I have over
a dozen I use all the time.  Check out mycroft for available plug ins for
FF.  And I'd not use IE, I just can't get past it's...past.

On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Jeff Wright jswri...@gmail.com wrote:

  I still can't get past not having search plug ins.  I might use chrome or
  safari if it just had some good search options.

 Search works fine.  It's not having add-ons like Adblock and NoScript that
 sinks IE for me.

 I also like how Firefox will spell-check forum/blog postings on the fly.


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless


On Jul 25, 2009, at 1:29 PM, Jeff Wright wrote:

REMAIN CALM!  ALL IS WELL!


And watch out for those guys on the motorcycles waving truncheons.


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless


Boy you must live in a rough neighborhood.

Stewart


At 02:04 PM 7/25/2009, you wrote:

And watch out for those guys on the motorcycles waving truncheons.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

2009-07-25 Thread Jordan

There is so much money against doing what the public wants and needs 
right now that I think all we can hope for is a step in the right 
direction. If we could get something in there that is not insurance it 
would be good.

Every other industrialized country in the world has single payer healthcare.

t.piwowar wrote:

On Jul 25, 2009, at 1:14 PM, mike wrote:

I've read many parts of
the bill, those things he lists are in it...so the question is, do 
you care?


Propaganda. There is no bill at this point. There are at least 3 very 
different proposed bills circulating.



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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless


Just this past May my mother fell in France and broke both her femurs.

My mother has both Medicare and Tricare for life.  (My father was 
retired military reserves)


Medicare will not cover you outside the US.

Tricare will cover her surgery and hospital stay but it had to be 
paid for up front.


Total cost (All inclusive) for surgeries and hospital stay of one 
week was $12,000 US.  Same stay and surgeries in the US would have 
been approximately $50,000.


US health care has found ways to line every ones pocket for a simple procedure.

Have some blood drawn and you will get two to three bills.  Doctors 
office for drawing blood, lab for running tests, and pathologist for 
reviewing lab results.  Now that is criminal and outrageous.


There is a better way to do this and it is going to take some time, 
but it is about time they start addressing it.


Stewart


At 02:54 PM 7/25/2009, you wrote:
There is so much money against doing what the public wants and needs 
right now that I think all we can hope for is a step in the right 
direction. If we could get something in there that is not insurance 
it would be good.

Every other industrialized country in the world has single payer healthcare.


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

2009-07-25 Thread Jeff Miles

	I was thinking about this issue of needing more time the other day.  
I've come to the conclusion we need to treat congress as we do  
children. After all, they act just like children. Can you imagine  
telling your child to check everything in his room, categorize what he  
wants and doesn't, decide where he wants to put the stuff he wants to  
keep, form a plan and after all that, clean his room. Does anyone  
seriously think any of that would get done?
	I think we need to get something going. If parts of it are broke,  
revise it. We can even revise the constitution if we decide we need  
to. That option is built in.


Jeff M


On Jul 25, 2009, at 10:46 AM, mike wrote:

As I said, you are far left and carrying the big O's water, move  
along don't
pay attention, we'll pass another 1000 page bill in hours before  
anyone can
read it.  Keeping it somewhat on our grounds, O was supposed to post  
bills
online for five days for public comment before passage...guess  
that's not

happening.

On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 10:39 AM, t.piwowar t...@tjpa.com wrote:


On Jul 25, 2009, at 1:14 PM, mike wrote:


I've read many parts of
the bill, those things he lists are in it...so the question is, do  
you

care?



Propaganda. There is no bill at this point. There are at least 3 very
different proposed bills circulating.



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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Rev. Stewart
Marshallpopoz...@earthlink.net wrote:

 There is a better way to do this and it is going to take some time, but it
 is about time they start addressing it.

  This health insurance mess reminds me of the oil dependency mess.
Both subjects have been talked and talked and talked about for many
years, yet those entrenched forces making very handsome profits off of
both have managed to keep everything as it has been with no result
other than making it more and more difficult for us little folks to
maintain our financial equilibrium and well-being.  Bribery works, and
money flowing to elected representatives from corporations is nothing
but that.

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

2009-07-25 Thread Matthew Taylor

No, it is a corporation exercising on behalf of its stockholders the  
right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


Matthew

On Jul 25, 2009, at 5:17 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote:


Bribery works, and
money flowing to elected representatives from corporations is nothing
but that.



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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 7:31 PM, Matthew Taylortaylorsmatt...@gmail.com wrote:

 No, it is a corporation exercising on behalf of its stockholders the right
 to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

  Say what?


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

There is redress for actual grievances and then there is outright 
blackmail and corporate bribery.


I think Congress has found a way to make bribery and blackmail look 
like redress.


Stewart


At 07:06 PM 7/25/2009, you wrote:
On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 7:31 PM, Matthew 
Taylortaylorsmatt...@gmail.com wrote:


 No, it is a corporation exercising on behalf of its stockholders the right
 to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

  Say what?


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Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Rev. Stewart
Marshallpopoz...@earthlink.net wrote:]

 I think Congress has found a way to make bribery and blackmail look like
 redress.

  Not just Congress.  The corporations are also involved.  They both
refer to the activity as free speech.

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless


If congress did not encourage and allow it corporations would not do it.

It is a two way street of greed.

Stewart


At 07:50 PM 7/25/2009, you wrote:

On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Rev. Stewart
Marshallpopoz...@earthlink.net wrote:]

 I think Congress has found a way to make bribery and blackmail look like
 redress.

  Not just Congress.  The corporations are also involved.  They both
refer to the activity as free speech.

  Steve


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Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless

On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 8:59 PM, Rev. Stewart
Marshallpopoz...@earthlink.net wrote:

 If congress did not encourage and allow it corporations would not do it.

  Encourage it?  Members of Congress quite openly ask, and in some
cases, virtually demand money from corporations in exchange for their
services on behalf of those constituents.

  Been reading the news stories of late about the gush of money from
the pharmaceutical industry to those members of Congress who are
intimately involved in the health care reform issue?

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless


That is what I am talking about.

Real campaign reform would look like this:

All monies raised for campaign expenses must be raised within the 
sate of residence congress people live in.


NO corporate monies allowed.

No monies from out of state and no PAC's.

Wisconsin had one of the tightest rules on lobbyists.  NO MONIES no 
lunches no freebies.


A congress critter wants to be reelected than the people of his area 
of representation can fund his campaign, not the DNC not the RNC and 
especially not their club the Congressional campaign fund.


Get money out of the equation and you would be surprised at those not 
willing or wanting to run, and how much cheaper government could be run.


It has always amazed me that these folks spend so much money for a 
job that pays so little (to hear them speak.) I could stand to earn 
as much as them. Or even half.


Stewart


At 08:57 PM 7/25/2009, you wrote:

  Encourage it?  Members of Congress quite openly ask, and in some
cases, virtually demand money from corporations in exchange for their
services on behalf of those constituents.

  Been reading the news stories of late about the gush of money from
the pharmaceutical industry to those members of Congress who are
intimately involved in the health care reform issue?

  Steve


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] iPhone 3GS encryption useless