Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Wright]

> Apple knows how to make money. Like their 1% share of the cell phone
> market that nets them 20% of the revenues. Got to admire that.

I'd say that most of the bigger companies know how to make money, but yeah,
I gotta respect that.  They're fleecing *everyone* in the supply chain, not
just the consuming public.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[t.piwowar]

On Jul 20, 2009, at 8:14 PM, Jeff Wright wrote:
Toshiba sells more computers than Apple.  Perhaps we should be  
investing in

Toshiba?


Apple knows how to make money. Like their 1% share of the cell phone  
market that nets them 20% of the revenues. Got to admire that.



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Wright]

> Mac sales jump 16% in June
> www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/07/20/
> apple_flirts_with_record_quarter_as_mac_sales_jump_16_in_june.html
> 
> Setting up business next to an Apple Store keeps looking better and
> better.

After dropping 12.4% in 2Q, falling to 5th place in the US, failing to show
altogether in worldwide sales:

http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/07/15/idc.prelim.q2.2009/

Toshiba sells more computers than Apple.  Perhaps we should be investing in
Toshiba?


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Miles]

	Oops, you made an assumption. By reading the word "financial" you  
assumed I meant for money saving for NASA. The financial reasons could  
have been anything. What I was saying is I believe it was for reasons  
other then what was operationally better for NASA.


Jeff M


On Jul 20, 2009, at 3:49 PM, t.piwowar wrote:


On Jul 20, 2009, at 12:03 AM, Jeff Miles wrote:
And do you remember how upset many of those scientists where when  
NASA made that switch? This is still debated, but I think it was  
purely a financial decision rather then what was best for the job.


No not financial...

"If Mr. Garman had performed an analysis of his own database, it  
would show the Macintoshes were 5 times less expensive to operate  
and support. The IG was presented with numerous studies, some based  
upon Mr. Garman's own database, which clearly shows Mr. Garman's  
standard will cost more to the taxpayer."


And this part of the report is especially rich...

"When non-Microsoft vendors wanted to voice their complaints  
concerning limiting open and fair competition, they were directed to  
the Ombudsman of JSC (a new position initiated by your office). The  
Ombudsman for JSC is Sue Garman, Mr. Garman's wife."



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[t.piwowar]

On Jul 20, 2009, at 12:03 AM, Jeff Miles wrote:
And do you remember how upset many of those scientists where when  
NASA made that switch? This is still debated, but I think it was  
purely a financial decision rather then what was best for the job.


No not financial...

"If Mr. Garman had performed an analysis of his own database, it  
would show the Macintoshes were 5 times less expensive to operate and  
support. The IG was presented with numerous studies, some based upon  
Mr. Garman's own database, which clearly shows Mr. Garman's standard  
will cost more to the taxpayer."


And this part of the report is especially rich...

"When non-Microsoft vendors wanted to voice their complaints  
concerning limiting open and fair competition, they were directed to  
the Ombudsman of JSC (a new position initiated by your office). The  
Ombudsman for JSC is Sue Garman, Mr. Garman's wife."



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[t.piwowar]

Apple is Earning Much More Than Its Share...

"Research from Deutsche Bank analyst Brian Modoff showed that Apple  
and Research in Motion together accounted for approximately 35% of  
the cellphone industry's total operating profit in 2008 while only  
representing 3% of total unit sales. Apple's share of industry  
profits clocked in at approximately 20% while holding only just over  
1% of the unit market share. The two companies' outsize share of  
profits underlines the shift in the wireless industry toward feature- 
rich devices accenting easy-to-use software and away from an emphasis  
on hardware... Moreover, Modoff estimates that Apple and Research in  
Motion will reach a combined 5% of unit sales for 2009, raking in  
roughly 58% of the total industry profit between them."


"The report notes that wireless carrier subsidies provide the driving  
force behind such large profits for leading smartphones such as  
Apple's iPhone and Research in Motion's BlackBerry lines. Apple  
reportedly receives about $400 in carrier subsidy for each iPhone,  
while BlackBerry sees about $200 and the typical basic cellphone  
about $100."


Wow!


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[t.piwowar]

Mac sales jump 16% in June
www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/07/20/ 
apple_flirts_with_record_quarter_as_mac_sales_jump_16_in_june.html


Setting up business next to an Apple Store keeps looking better and  
better.



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[phartz...@gmail.com]

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 3:38 PM, t.piwowar wrote:

> Billions wasted so that M$ could make a few more million.

  What's good for M$ is good for the country!  The USA runs on
Windows.  Can you tell?

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[t.piwowar]

On Jul 20, 2009, at 12:03 AM, Jeff Miles wrote:
And do you remember how upset many of those scientists where when  
NASA made that switch? This is still debated, but I think it was  
purely a financial decision rather then what was best for the job.  
I'm not suggesting anything directly related, but how many  
satellites, probes and shuttles have we lost since that decision?  
Just an odd thought there.



We'll never know what could have been accomplished if creativity had  
not been squashed.


Billions wasted so that M$ could make a few more million.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[mike]

I have both types in my life, those who loved linux before OS X and switched
to X when it came out and never looked back, and those in linux who still
look at OS X as the fisher price OS of the unix world.

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 9:16 AM, David K Watson
wrote:

> Neal Stephson's own words, from his Slashdot interview:
>
>  Neal:
>>
>> You guessed right: I embraced OS X as soon as it was available
>> and have never looked back. So a lot of "In the beginning was the
>> command line" is now obsolete. I keep meaning to update it, but if I'm
>> honest with myself, I have to say this is unlikely.
>>
>
> Read it yourself at
> <
> http://interviews.slashdot.org/interviews/04/10/20/1518217.shtml?tid=192&tid=214&tid=126&tid=11
> >
>
>


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[mike]

Indeed, I wondered myself after I hit the send button why I typed tow and
not toe...alas, no unsend button yet to be had in gmail.

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 9:16 AM, David K Watson
wrote:

>
> I know it is pedantic, but Mike the correct usage is "toe the line",
> not "tow the line".
>
>


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[David K Watson]

Neal Stephson's own words, from his Slashdot interview:


Neal:

You guessed right: I embraced OS X as soon as it was available
and have never looked back. So a lot of "In the beginning was the
command line" is now obsolete. I keep meaning to update it, but if I'm
honest with myself, I have to say this is unlikely.


Read it yourself at



I know it is pedantic, but Mike the correct usage is "toe the line",
not "tow the line".


From:mike 

Your logic problem here is you believe using a mac makes you creative.
Anyone who has to use a mac to be creative, ain't so creative.   
Those who

feel compelled to write will do so with computer or quill, in whatever
conditions.

On that note, a fun book to be sure..you should stay away from it  
Tom, it

doesn't tow your line.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beginning-Was-Command-Line-Neal-Stephenson/dp/0380815931


On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 2:37 PM, t.piwowar  wrote:




I guess it also proves that creative people don't use PCs willingly.






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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Eric S. Sande]

I'm not suggesting anything directly related, but how many satellites, 
probes and shuttles have we lost since that decision?


Well, I can't tell you exactly, that's classified.  They are certainly 
fixing

a toilet on the ISS as we speak using a PC.

In case you missed the John Glenn lecture at the Smithsonian last
evening, Mssrs. Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins all had words of
wisdom on the 40th anniversary of the moon landing.




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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Miles]

	And do you remember how upset many of those scientists where when  
NASA made that switch? This is still debated, but I think it was  
purely a financial decision rather then what was best for the job. I'm  
not suggesting anything directly related, but how many satellites,  
probes and shuttles have we lost since that decision? Just an odd  
thought there.


Jeff M


On Jul 19, 2009, at 10:33 AM, Jeff Wright wrote:

Besides what jeff "thinks", next they'll be saying it's product  
placement.


I've seen gobs of NASA videos, all loaded with hordes of rocket  
scientists all using PCs.


What does that prove?  Right, nothing, other than it's the right  
tool for them.


See how that works?  Your self-worth isn't dependent on the latest  
fashions that the pop stars are wearing.


I'm sort of retired, so I don't see people in industry anymore, I  
just

know people are happy not to have to deal with crashes, updates and
other maintenance anymore.


FunnyThe Mac help sites are filled with people looking for help  
with crashes, updates and other maintenance for their Macs.  They  
must be mistaken.



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[betty]

Your logic problem here is you believe using a mac makes you creative.
Anyone who has to use a mac to be creative, ain't so creative.  Those who
feel compelled to write will do so with computer or quill, in whatever
conditions.


Well said. Using any computer won't make you able to draw or paint or animate or write if 
you can't do any of those without a computer. Computers are TOOLS--the means to an 
end--not the end product of a creative process. In fact it's much easier to write or to 
illustrate on paper than on a computer, until you have to make changes. Then you use the 
computer that does the job best for you.


Too bad that the differences are offered as adversarial rather than complementary, but 
that's business! Even Microsoft makes a fair profit from Mac users, with Office, and with 
dual booting or virtualization. So being next-door neighbors can be a good thing.


Betty


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Eric S. Sande]

The article is available for free as a download.


Neal is pretty hard on the MGB, I had one of those.  It was
a fun to drive British roadster.  It did require maintenance,
but that could be done by me.  Nothing fancy.

I guess we're contemporaries.

He describes batch programming, teletypes, etc. exactly as
I remember them.

He does tend to get a little carried away when he goes into
lecture mode, though.  I mean how many times do I have
to hear someone reiterate the obvious in order to fill up pages.

I was THERE, man.

If you weren't, you should read it.  It will tell you far more
about Neal Stephenson than it will about OS design, but there
are a few nuggets there.

I've read most of his fiction.  He's literate.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[t.piwowar]

On Jul 19, 2009, at 6:10 PM, mike wrote:

Your logic problem here is you believe using a mac makes you creative.


Chicken or egg?

No I think creative people are attracted to Macs and in turn the Mac  
makes them even more creative. Great positive feedback.



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[t.piwowar]

On Jul 19, 2009, at 8:32 PM, Paul Cannon wrote:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beginning-Was-Command-Line-Neal-Stephenson/ 
dp/0380815931




In the beginning we used to toggle in binary machine code using  
toggle switches.


As for an OS you could buy, I guess this guy never heard of CPM.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Paul Cannon]

The article is available for free as a download

http://www.cryptonomicon.com/beginning.html

On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 03:10:12PM -0700, mike wrote:
> Your logic problem here is you believe using a mac makes you creative.
> Anyone who has to use a mac to be creative, ain't so creative.  Those who
> feel compelled to write will do so with computer or quill, in whatever
> conditions.
> 
> On that note, a fun book to be sure..you should stay away from it Tom, it
> doesn't tow your line.
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beginning-Was-Command-Line-Neal-Stephenson/dp/0380815931
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 2:37 PM, t.piwowar  wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > I guess it also proves that creative people don't use PCs willingly.
> >
> 
> 
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> -- 
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[phartz...@gmail.com]

On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 6:30 PM, mike wrote:

> Right, but they weren't on macs so obviously they were morons to a high
> degree.

  The ST's were a whole lot less expensive than Macs of the day and
also offered a GUI.  The Atari TOS, that's Tramiel Operating System,
was pretty good and apparently not all that difficult to program.
There was a hardware accelerator made by one David Small that enabled
the ST to run rings around Macs or DOS machines of the period in terms
of speed, thus the choice of those STs.

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Miles]

	I don't think this is the case. They've just changed their direction  
of curiosity. The imagination, who knows there. That is so debatable.  
Actually, after thinking a bit no one has actually changed their  
direction of curiosity. However, this is way beyond my expertise. But  
for my thinking, if it peeks your interest it means you're a curious  
person. And I think most people are. Possibly the reason for many  
weird video accidents that have been filmed. I can already hear what  
the next argument is going to be.


Jeff M


On Jul 19, 2009, at 5:14 AM, Jordan wrote:

OK, so I'll agree that crappy bookstores and poorly funded libraries  
are sad and disappointing.
But what is really sad is that so many people these days have lost  
their curiosity , and imagination.


Jeff Miles wrote:
   I knew I was going to get nailed for this. But even Borders  
found it had to put in a coffee shop. And libraries exciting? You  
need to get out more.
   Please don't get me wrong on this. Reading is a wonderful,  
exciting and enlightening thing. But you throw a few books in a  
store doesn't make the store great.


Jeff M


On Jul 18, 2009, at 6:00 AM, Jordan wrote:


Libraries and bookstores are exciting.






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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Wright]

> I guess it also proves that creative people don't use PCs willingly.

Let's see what Wikipedia has to say about evil JSC CIO Jack Garmin.  You're
right, he doesn't seem creative at all:

" John R. "Jack" Garman is a computer engineer, former senior NASA executive
and a noted key figure of the Apollo 11 lunar landing. As a young specialist
on duty during the final descent stage on 20 July 1969 he dealt with a
series of computer alarms which could have caused the mission to be aborted.

Garman was born in Oak Park, Illinois and attended the University of
Michigan. He graduated in 1966 with a bachelor of science degree in
engineering physics and a specialty in computing.

In 1966 at the age of twenty-one Garman was hired by NASA. He chose to
specialise in onboard computing and was assigned to the Apollo Guidance
Program Section where he worked with MIT, supervising the design and testing
of the Apollo Guidance Computer.

During the Apollo missions Garman worked in a support role, advising flight
controllers in Mission Control on the operation of spacecraft computer
systems. A few months before the Apollo 11 mission he suggested that
simulation supervisors at Mission Control test how flight controllers might
react to a computer error code. Guidance officer Steve Bales responded to
the simulated error by calling an abort, which was found to be a needless
reaction for that particular code. As Garman later recounted, "Gene Kranz,
who was the real hero of that whole episode, said, 'No, no, no. I want you
all to write down every single possible computer alarm that can possibly go
wrong.'" Garman made a handwritten list of every computer alarm code that
could occur along with the correct reaction to each of them and put it under
the plexiglass on his desk

After the Apollo program Garman played a key role in the development of high
level programming language for the Space Shuttle. From 1986 through 1988 he
worked at NASA Headquarters in Washington, D.C. as director of information
systems services in the Space Station Program Office. Returning to Johnson
Space Center in 1988 he held various senior positions in information
systems, finally serving as Chief Information Officer of Johnson Space
Center from 1994 through 2000."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Garman


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Wright]

Wow.  1996.  Not bitter or anything are we?  The author wouldn't be a
Macarazzi by any chance?

Are you sure you want to be quoting these guys?  They're gratuitous free
market types.

http://www.houstonspacesociety.org/entlinks.html

> -Original Message-
> Great example! This proves that NASA, formerly a Mac shop, got raped
> by one of those evil IT manager types. Read the bitter story here...
> http://www.houstonspacesociety.org/mac.html
> 
> "Sometimes bureaucratic efforts to change things, such as the
> replacement of the NASA "worm" logo with the new "meatball" logo, are
> amusing. At other times, such as with the recent activities by the
> Chief Information Officer at NASA's Johnson Space Center (JSC), the
> smell of corruption, bribery, and payoffs becomes overpowering. "
> 
> I guess it also proves that creative people don't use PCs willingly.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Wright]

>   No one, probably not even Tom, has ever claimed that Macs do not
> have problems.

Actually yeah, Tom has, many, many times.  The less-balanced types are
committed to spreading the iMythos at all costs.

Justin Long as a Mac is just a manifestation of them.

> Everything has problems...even Windows computers.  The
> Mac OS, in general, has fewer issues that need to be resolved than do
> Windows machines.  I include viruses, malware, bots, et al.  Perhaps
> you would argue this point, but you'd likely be the only one on this
> list who would.

You really don't get it, do you?


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Wright]

> Do you think PCs owners exhibit hostility and resentment against non-
> PC owners to a greater extent than non-PC owners? It seems like just
> about every time there is a discussion comparing different computer
> types I see bitter crap from them instead of anything thoughtful.

You're projecting.  Again.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[mike]

Pot calling kettle...come in..

On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 3:06 PM, t.piwowar  wrote:

> On Jul 19, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Jeff Wright wrote:
>
>> Tom, your sophistry is truly pathetic at times.
>>
>
> Do you think PCs owners exhibit hostility and resentment against non-PC
> owners to a greater extent than non-PC owners? It seems like just about
> every time there is a discussion comparing different computer types I see
> bitter crap from them instead of anything thoughtful.
>
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[mike]

Right, but they weren't on macs so obviously they were morons to a high
degree.

On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 3:10 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 5:37 PM, t.piwowar wrote:
>
> > I guess it also proves that creative people don't use PCs willingly.
>
>   I know a NASA scientist, works at NASA in Maryland, and back in the
> old 8-bit days they had a number of Atari ST computers that they used
> with house written software.  They didn't like the MS stuff much back
> then.
>
>  Steve
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[mike]

Your logic problem here is you believe using a mac makes you creative.
Anyone who has to use a mac to be creative, ain't so creative.  Those who
feel compelled to write will do so with computer or quill, in whatever
conditions.

On that note, a fun book to be sure..you should stay away from it Tom, it
doesn't tow your line.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beginning-Was-Command-Line-Neal-Stephenson/dp/0380815931


On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 2:37 PM, t.piwowar  wrote:

>
>
> I guess it also proves that creative people don't use PCs willingly.
>


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[phartz...@gmail.com]

On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 5:37 PM, t.piwowar wrote:

> I guess it also proves that creative people don't use PCs willingly.

  I know a NASA scientist, works at NASA in Maryland, and back in the
old 8-bit days they had a number of Atari ST computers that they used
with house written software.  They didn't like the MS stuff much back
then.

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[t.piwowar]

On Jul 19, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Jeff Wright wrote:

Tom, your sophistry is truly pathetic at times.


Do you think PCs owners exhibit hostility and resentment against non- 
PC owners to a greater extent than non-PC owners? It seems like just  
about every time there is a discussion comparing different computer  
types I see bitter crap from them instead of anything thoughtful.



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[t.piwowar]

On Jul 19, 2009, at 1:33 PM, Jeff Wright wrote:
I've seen gobs of NASA videos, all loaded with hordes of rocket  
scientists all using PCs.

What does that prove?


Great example! This proves that NASA, formerly a Mac shop, got raped  
by one of those evil IT manager types. Read the bitter story here...  
http://www.houstonspacesociety.org/mac.html


"Sometimes bureaucratic efforts to change things, such as the  
replacement of the NASA "worm" logo with the new "meatball" logo, are  
amusing. At other times, such as with the recent activities by the  
Chief Information Officer at NASA's Johnson Space Center (JSC), the  
smell of corruption, bribery, and payoffs becomes overpowering. "


I guess it also proves that creative people don't use PCs willingly.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[phartz...@gmail.com]

On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Jeff Wright wrote:

> FunnyThe Mac help sites are filled with people looking for help with 
> crashes, updates and other maintenance for their Macs.  They must be mistaken.

  No one, probably not even Tom, has ever claimed that Macs do not
have problems.  Everything has problems...even Windows computers.  The
Mac OS, in general, has fewer issues that need to be resolved than do
Windows machines.  I include viruses, malware, bots, et al.  Perhaps
you would argue this point, but you'd likely be the only one on this
list who would.

  For all I know, when using Windows on a Macintosh, a user could be
faced with the same software issues seen by any user on a computer
that came with Windows installed.  I don't do it, so I have no first
hand knowledge.

  Folks I know who did move to Macs from a long history with Windows
tell me they find they only use the Windows side, if at all, for work
related stuff for which they feel they need to use that MS product.
They convey these things to me because we are friends and friends do
talk to each other about common interests,   These folks actually may
not need Windows for much at all, and time and some testing will
determine if they actually still need it for most of their work
related stuff.  They may still need Windows for VPN.

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Wright]

> Surprise, surprise! Mr Wright in another pissing contest.

The last I checked, it takes more than one person to have a contest.

> True, or maybe some Linux? But anyway, in spite of what has been talked
> about on this list, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of shops don't
> allow a choice. I saw 1 Mac in all my years in machining. They could not
> have cared less about creativity or individuality.
> That was all more than 10 years ago though. A long time in computer years.

Perhaps you should have asked your employer(s) why they used the tools that 
they did, since it's that important to you.

We have our business needs at my .org, provided to me by the management, which 
are relatively unique, as are other businesses in other industries.  The 
business needs of General Dynamics or the Red Cross are not ours.  

The people who are so zeroed in on their own selfish personal demands and go on 
and on about the unfairness of it all that they have to use the tools provided 
to them by the business simply lack insight.  If there is a legitimate business 
need for a non-Windows solution and a business case for it can be documented 
and articulated, we provide it, assuming the budget allows.  If not, we don't.  
It's that simple.

For example, we support Blackberries at my .org.  Not Windows Mobile, not 
iPhones, not Nokia nor LG.  We have a BB Enterprise Server and if your BB has 
issues, we will support it and work to fix the problem.  We also permit mailbox 
sync via ActiveSync, so that staff with personal iPhones or WM devices can get 
their mailboxes on their mobile device.  However, we don't support them.  If 
they break, you're on your own.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jordan]

Surprise, surprise! Mr Wright in another pissing contest.

Jeff Wright wrote:

See how that works?  Your self-worth isn't dependent on the latest fashions 
that the pop stars are wearing.
  
The fact that you keep bringing this up says more about what you think 
about than what any Mac user thinks.

I've seen gobs of NASA videos, all loaded with hordes of rocket scientists all 
using PCs.
  
True, or maybe some Linux? But anyway, in spite of what has been talked 
about on this list, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of shops don't 
allow a choice. I saw 1 Mac in all my years in machining. They could not 
have cared less about creativity or individuality.

That was all more than 10 years ago though. A long time in computer years.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Wright]

> Besides what jeff "thinks", next they'll be saying it's product placement.

I've seen gobs of NASA videos, all loaded with hordes of rocket scientists all 
using PCs.

What does that prove?  Right, nothing, other than it's the right tool for them.

See how that works?  Your self-worth isn't dependent on the latest fashions 
that the pop stars are wearing.
 
> I'm sort of retired, so I don't see people in industry anymore, I just
> know people are happy not to have to deal with crashes, updates and
> other maintenance anymore.

FunnyThe Mac help sites are filled with people looking for help with 
crashes, updates and other maintenance for their Macs.  They must be mistaken.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jordan]

t.piwowar wrote:

On Jul 19, 2009, at 8:14 AM, Jordan wrote:
But what is really sad is that so many people these days have lost 
their curiosity , and imagination.


Do you think Mac owners exhibit curiosity and imagination (creativity 
too) to a greater extent than PC owners? It seems like just about 
every time I see a computer on PBS' NOVA it is a Mac. Last night I had 
dinner with a NIH researcher and found out that they use Macs almost 
exclusively. The media industry uses Macs almost exclusively. PCs are 
most associated with people who work in cubicles or call centers -- 
the modern equivalent of galley slaves.



Besides what jeff "thinks", next they'll be saying it's product placement.

I'm sort of retired, so I don't see people in industry anymore, I just 
know people are happy not to have to deal with crashes, updates and 
other maintenance anymore.



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Wright]

> Do you think Mac owners exhibit curiosity and imagination (creativity
> too) to a greater extent than PC owners? It seems like just about
> every time I see a computer on PBS' NOVA it is a Mac. Last night I had
> dinner with a NIH researcher and found out that they use Macs almost
> exclusively. The media industry uses Macs almost exclusively. PCs are
> most associated with people who work in cubicles or call centers --
> the modern equivalent of galley slaves.

Tom, your sophistry is truly pathetic at times.  

I think many (but not all) Mac owners have chronic feelings of inferiority,
which is why they are so concerned why other people use a different kind of
computer.  Always in search of validation.

It's the Stuart Smalley of OS platforms.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[t.piwowar]

On Jul 19, 2009, at 8:14 AM, Jordan wrote:
But what is really sad is that so many people these days have lost  
their curiosity , and imagination.


Do you think Mac owners exhibit curiosity and imagination (creativity  
too) to a greater extent than PC owners? It seems like just about  
every time I see a computer on PBS' NOVA it is a Mac. Last night I had  
dinner with a NIH researcher and found out that they use Macs almost  
exclusively. The media industry uses Macs almost exclusively. PCs are  
most associated with people who work in cubicles or call centers --  
the modern equivalent of galley slaves.



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jordan]

OK, so I'll agree that crappy bookstores and poorly funded libraries are 
sad and disappointing.
But what is really sad is that so many people these days have lost their 
curiosity , and imagination.


Jeff Miles wrote:
I knew I was going to get nailed for this. But even Borders found 
it had to put in a coffee shop. And libraries exciting? You need to 
get out more.
Please don't get me wrong on this. Reading is a wonderful, 
exciting and enlightening thing. But you throw a few books in a store 
doesn't make the store great.


Jeff M


On Jul 18, 2009, at 6:00 AM, Jordan wrote:


Libraries and bookstores are exciting.






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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Miles]

	I knew I was going to get nailed for this. But even Borders found it  
had to put in a coffee shop. And libraries exciting? You need to get  
out more.
	Please don't get me wrong on this. Reading is a wonderful, exciting  
and enlightening thing. But you throw a few books in a store doesn't  
make the store great.


Jeff M


On Jul 18, 2009, at 6:00 AM, Jordan wrote:


Libraries and bookstores are exciting.

Jeff Miles wrote:
   I've only seen the one. That was in the largest mall in Hawaii.  
I'm a Mac fan, but this place was the furthest from exciting.  I  
was even looking for new and exciting things for my Mac, but  
nothing jumped out at me. I was going to use the idea that this  
place was as exciting as a library, but it didn't come close.





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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[phartz...@gmail.com]

On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 1:56 PM, t.piwowar wrote:

> Note the photo. I see plenty of color and big screen action. Lots of
> hardware to experiment with. People who to answer questions (correctly!).

  I will second this and add that any Apple Store I have seen had
quite a throng of customers inside.  Also, quite a throng of
employees, thus making it very easy and quick to get good and
knowledgeable help from those employees.  Apple insists that employees
be Mac users with a certain period of familiarity with Mac computers.
They hire experienced folks.  That does not mean that every employee
will know everything about Apple products, but it does mean that they
are probably far more versed in what they sell than what you would
find in almost any other store.

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[t.piwowar]

On Jul 18, 2009, at 2:10 AM, Jeff Miles wrote:
Maybe some life size placards and posters, etc. of software and  
upcoming software and/or something not black and white?


My local Apple Store had a shooting 2 weeks ago. Don't you wish you  
had been there?


Here is mine...
http://www.apple.com/retail/clarendon/

Note the photo. I see plenty of color and big screen action. Lots of  
hardware to experiment with. People who to answer questions  
(correctly!).


Note the schedule. Daily events on interesting topics.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[b_s-wilk]

OP was about MS stores and locating them next to Apple stores. 
[Microsoft to Open Retail Stores Next to Apple’s
http://tinyurl.com/myrkw3] Then it morphed into lots of other things, 
including ads/commercials, excitement, competition, semi-nude 
waitresses. MS says its stores won't copy Apple stores, but it will 
innovate: semi-nude sales associates?


Maybe I'll just go back to the beach. And find an Apple store to use as 
an internet café.


Betty



Not sure who you are responding to, but this isn't what we were talking
about..



On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 7:43 AM, b_s-wilk  wrote:


> John Hodgman and Justin Long are acting as computers. They're cartoon
> characters, especially Hodgman, as always. Never once did they claim to be
> real people--not actors, as did the actors pretending to be in real,
> unrehearsed situations, in the MS commercials.
>



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[mike]

Not sure who you are responding to, but this isn't what we were talking
about..



On Sat, Jul 18, 2009 at 7:43 AM, b_s-wilk  wrote:

> John Hodgman and Justin Long are acting as computers. They're cartoon
> characters, especially Hodgman, as always. Never once did they claim to be
> real people--not actors, as did the actors pretending to be in real,
> unrehearsed situations, in the MS commercials.
>
> John Hodgman is pretty funny. Reminds me of our old PC that I couldn't find
> on the network last night because it disconnects from the network at random
> times for no reason. The Macs rarely do that. The PCs do it all the time, if
> they appear at all. Hmmm. Maybe the Apple ads are more real than the MS ads.
> Yes!
>
>
>  You surely haven't missed the last 3 years of get a mac ads?
>>
> >
>
>> The difference between the Mac ads and the PC ads are obvious when you
>>
>>> consider the "Lauren" ad where she said she looked at Macs, but never
>>> bothered to go into the Apple store long enough to look at anything.
>>> OTOH,
>>> the Apple PPC ads were exaggerated, but their comparisons were based on
>>> benchmark tests, not actors pretending to be "real" people as in the MS
>>> ads.
>>>
>>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[b_s-wilk]

John Hodgman and Justin Long are acting as computers. They're cartoon 
characters, especially Hodgman, as always. Never once did they claim to 
be real people--not actors, as did the actors pretending to be in real, 
unrehearsed situations, in the MS commercials.


John Hodgman is pretty funny. Reminds me of our old PC that I couldn't 
find on the network last night because it disconnects from the network 
at random times for no reason. The Macs rarely do that. The PCs do it 
all the time, if they appear at all. Hmmm. Maybe the Apple ads are more 
real than the MS ads. Yes!




You surely haven't missed the last 3 years of get a mac ads?

>

The difference between the Mac ads and the PC ads are obvious when you

consider the "Lauren" ad where she said she looked at Macs, but never
bothered to go into the Apple store long enough to look at anything. OTOH,
the Apple PPC ads were exaggerated, but their comparisons were based on
benchmark tests, not actors pretending to be "real" people as in the MS ads.



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jordan]

Libraries and bookstores are exciting.

Jeff Miles wrote:
I've only seen the one. That was in the largest mall in Hawaii. 
I'm a Mac fan, but this place was the furthest from exciting.  I was 
even looking for new and exciting things for my Mac, but nothing 
jumped out at me. I was going to use the idea that this place was as 
exciting as a library, but it didn't come close.





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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Miles]

	They could try adding some color. Black and white looks clean and  
nifty for a bit, but the eye needs something to grab it's attention.  
The background screens weren't doing the job. As a long time Mac fan I  
don't know how I can say it any plainer,  but the store was boring.  
Maybe some life size placards and posters, etc. of software and  
upcoming software and/or something not black and white? Thinking of my  
high school days in the movie theater there.


Jeff M


On Jul 17, 2009, at 8:23 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote:

Okay, you asked and I took a stab at defining excitement and you  
panned

it.  So, Jeff, tag, you're it: tell us (or stop sneering).  Make it
relevant, too and tell us how M$ will generate excitement.

Thank you,

Mark Snyder
-Original Message-
Apple generates lots of "excitement" at their stores when they  
release



a new product.  People line up for the opening at their stores; that
is consumer excitement.


We normal types call that kind of excitement "marketing hype" and  
those

people lining up, "schmucks."


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Miles]

	I've only seen the one. That was in the largest mall in Hawaii. I'm a  
Mac fan, but this place was the furthest from exciting.  I was even  
looking for new and exciting things for my Mac, but nothing jumped out  
at me. I was going to use the idea that this place was as exciting as  
a library, but it didn't come close.
	Maybe it was my fault of being in Hawaii. A lot of things looked fun.  
The Apple store wasn't one of them. Of course the food court wasn't  
either.


Jeff M


On Jul 17, 2009, at 7:29 AM, t.piwowar wrote:


On Jul 17, 2009, at 6:44 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote:

Okay, Jeff, here goes.  Apple generates lots of "excitement" at their
stores when they release a new product.


Not just then. The stores are very well designed to showcase their  
product and provide lots of time for hands-on experimenting. Unlike  
other stores Apple is perfectly fine with folks using the gear  
intensively. Some travelers even use Apple Stores like internet  
cafes. Customers interact and swap insights like no other store I  
have ever seen. The store is almost like a club. I once needed to  
know something about the innards of a new model. I went to the Apple  
Store and took a Mac partially apart. Nobody seemed to mind. All  
this produces an exciting and appealing atmosphere.


Meanwhile at the Zune Store they will be holding a seminar on "How  
To Use the Group Policy Editor to Manage Local Computer Policy in  
Windows." Cool. Or is that "cold?"



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Miles]

	Like I had mentioned in an earlier post, being a Mac advocate I cut  
you some slack. But get real. Sex sells, regardless.


Jeff M


On Jul 17, 2009, at 7:21 AM, t.piwowar wrote:


On Jul 17, 2009, at 5:09 AM, Jeff Miles wrote:
Maybe I haven't gone far enough through my email yet, but I can't  
believe anyone has actually answered the "exciting" question yet.   
We have several coffee shops in town that are causing a lot of  
controversy. The coffee makers are all women and wear nothing but  
lingerie. I don't have a problem with this, but some people do. And  
the shops are quite busy.


Might work for M$. Otherwise it will be a Zune store.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Miles]

Fortunately for the girls they are the drive up type.


On Jul 17, 2009, at 7:13 AM, Matthew Taylor wrote:


Hmm - I don't normally go for coffee but ...

What shops are these?

Matthew

On Jul 17, 2009, at 5:09 AM, Jeff Miles wrote:

	Maybe I haven't gone far enough through my email yet, but I can't  
believe anyone has actually answered the "exciting" question yet.   
We have several coffee shops in town that are causing a lot of  
controversy. The coffee makers are all women and wear nothing but  
lingerie. I don't have a problem with this, but some people do. And  
the shops are quite busy.


Jeff M



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[mike]

You surely haven't missed the last 3 years of get a mac ads?

On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 7:57 PM, b_s-wilk  wrote:

> Only in the eyes to MS?  Maybe you forgot those years worth of apple vs pc
>> ads apple put out?  I don't recall MS or pc users sputtering about with
>> each
>> one of those.  Then after years, MS puts out an ad and the macheads go
>> nutball over it.  To apple they HAVE to be complimentary, but make no
>> mistake, Apple wants some of that 97% market MS has.
>>
>>
> Those Apple ads were hardware ads for PPCs. I don't think Apple wants 97%
> of the hardware market. They can't produce that much product, and they don't
> want to lower quality to please everybody, anyway.
>
> The difference between the Mac ads and the PC ads are obvious when you
> consider the "Lauren" ad where she said she looked at Macs, but never
> bothered to go into the Apple store long enough to look at anything. OTOH,
> the Apple PPC ads were exaggerated, but their comparisons were based on
> benchmark tests, not actors pretending to be "real" people as in the MS ads.
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[b_s-wilk]

Only in the eyes to MS?  Maybe you forgot those years worth of apple vs pc
ads apple put out?  I don't recall MS or pc users sputtering about with each
one of those.  Then after years, MS puts out an ad and the macheads go
nutball over it.  To apple they HAVE to be complimentary, but make no
mistake, Apple wants some of that 97% market MS has.



Those Apple ads were hardware ads for PPCs. I don't think Apple wants 
97% of the hardware market. They can't produce that much product, and 
they don't want to lower quality to please everybody, anyway.


The difference between the Mac ads and the PC ads are obvious when you 
consider the "Lauren" ad where she said she looked at Macs, but never 
bothered to go into the Apple store long enough to look at anything. 
OTOH, the Apple PPC ads were exaggerated, but their comparisons were 
based on benchmark tests, not actors pretending to be "real" people as 
in the MS ads.



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Miles]

	I'm not so sure of that. Do you consider coffee hardware or software?  
I'm not sure were to put that, and have almost been arrested on  
occasion because of that.
	I can't believe I sound like I'm defending MS. I'm not. But you kind  
of got to the heart of it. GM makes cars, They don't process oil.


Jeff M


On Jul 17, 2009, at 4:04 AM, Rev. Stewart Marshall wrote:


OK here goes again.

Apples versus Oranges (pun intended)

I for the life of me cannot understand why MS wants to open retail  
stores.


MS is a software company that sells a little bit of hardware.

Apple is a Hardware company that sells a little bit of Software.

If you were to look at the ratios this would be born out.

So Apple store good idea.  MS store bad idea.

Stewart



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Miles]

	I think you missed my point. I've been to an Apple store and am an  
Apple fan, but the stores are boring. I love the clean sleek look of  
my iMac and how well all of my Macs and Apples have worked, but the  
stores were very disappointing. Maybe it's just me. I like a clean  
(somewhat) and orderly desk, and the iMac helps with that. But when I  
walk into a store I want to be dazzled. Apple stores don't do that.  
Their products do, but their stores don't. With my background I'd like  
to think I know something about advertising and initial impact on what  
could be costumers.
	Maybe if Apple had some of those lamps jumping around the store might  
add some excitement? Don't get me wrong. I love the product, but as  
far as their stores go, from the one I've seen, Apple needs to check  
it's idea on marketing, and maybe change the dress code.


Jeff M


On Jul 17, 2009, at 3:44 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote:


Okay, Jeff, here goes.  Apple generates lots of "excitement" at their
stores when they release a new product.  People line up for the  
opening
at their stores; that is consumer excitement.  M$'s biggest  
"excitement"
recently was when they reduced the advanced purchase of home  
versions of

Windows7 (feeling lucky?) by about 40% in the UK for a small number of
media-licenses so they could outsell Vista's advanced purchase.

Seriously, M$ is totally ignorant about marketing and will probably  
lose

huge chunks of cash trying to be Apple.  And I can't see people lining
up outside the M$ store.

Thank you,

Mark Snyder
-Original Message-
Maybe I haven't gone far enough through my email yet, but I
can't believe anyone has actually answered the "exciting" question  
yet.

We have several coffee shops in town that are causing a lot of
controversy. The coffee makers are all women and wear nothing but
lingerie. I don't have a problem with this, but some people do. And  
the

shops are quite busy.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[phartz...@gmail.com]

On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Jeff Miles wrote:

>        I'm a Mac fan but was sorrily disappointed in my Apple store
> experience.  The place was boring. With Apple's style and making most things
> look cool maybe I expected to much. It was just a store after all. What was
> I expecting, Sea World? Still, I've been in tiny little gift shops more
> exciting then the Apple store. With all the finesse and style Apple uses,
> couldn't they do more? BTW, this Apple store was in the big mall in
> Honolulu. I don't know if that makes a difference.

  I'm also a Mac fan who cannot get that excited about being in an
Apple store.  I mean, it's okay, but not really anything to write home
about.  I have had good experiences with Apple Store employees and
with Apple Corp, in general, and that is a good thing, but excited
about it?  Not.  Pleased and happy, but my blood did not begin to race
through my veins.  Maybe if I were 17 again...

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[t.piwowar]

On Jul 17, 2009, at 3:37 PM, Jeff Miles wrote:
I'm a Mac fan but was sorrily disappointed in my Apple store  
experience.


Come on over to my Apple Store in Clarendon.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[mike]

Only in the eyes to MS?  Maybe you forgot those years worth of apple vs pc
ads apple put out?  I don't recall MS or pc users sputtering about with each
one of those.  Then after years, MS puts out an ad and the macheads go
nutball over it.  To apple they HAVE to be complimentary, but make no
mistake, Apple wants some of that 97% market MS has.



On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 10:50 AM, b_s-wilk  wrote:

>
> What's the point--MS vs Apple? They're only rivals in the eyes of MS. To
> Apple, they're complementary [as well as thieves/plagiarizers]. Obviously MS
> has lots of money to waste when they should be using it on R&D and QA/QC.
>
> Betty
>
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Wright]

> Okay, you asked and I took a stab at defining excitement and you panned
> it.  So, Jeff, tag, you're it: tell us (or stop sneering).  Make it
> relevant, too and tell us how M$ will generate excitement.

Actually, no, I didn't ask. Jeff Miles did, I believe.  I'm just snarking at
the sycophants.

I never claimed that MS would "generate excitement."  You must be more
easily excitable than I.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Miles]

	I'm a Mac fan but was sorrily disappointed in my Apple store  
experience.  The place was boring. With Apple's style and making most  
things look cool maybe I expected to much. It was just a store after  
all. What was I expecting, Sea World? Still, I've been in tiny little  
gift shops more exciting then the Apple store. With all the finesse  
and style Apple uses, couldn't they do more? BTW, this Apple store was  
in the big mall in Honolulu. I don't know if that makes a difference.


Jeff M


On Jul 16, 2009, at 5:23 PM, t.piwowar wrote:


On Jul 16, 2009, at 7:30 PM, Jordan wrote:
I understood that you were being sarcastic, but the audio and  
visual stimulation in some of the mass market stores is successful  
at the stimulation you speak of for most people.


Clearly you have not been in an Apple Store. They do not look  
anything like a Circuit City.



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[t.piwowar]

On Jul 17, 2009, at 1:50 PM, b_s-wilk wrote:
What's the point--MS vs Apple? They're only rivals in the eyes of  
MS. To Apple, they're complementary [as well as thieves/ 
plagiarizers]. Obviously MS has lots of money to waste when they  
should be using it on R&D and QA/QC.


I was just talking to a retail marketing person who made an  
interesting observation. The traffic at many malls is way down, some  
are looking like ghost towns. Most stores have more employees than  
customers.


In many otherwise dead malls he noticed flurries of activity  
associated with Apple Stores. Lots of people in the store and moving  
in and out of the store.


I think M$ won't be the only one hoping to site their stores right  
next to an Apple Store.



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[b_s-wilk]

>
> OK here goes again.
>
> Apples versus Oranges (pun intended)
>
> I for the life of me cannot understand why MS wants to open retail 
stores.

>
> MS is a software company that sells a little bit of hardware.
>
> Apple is a Hardware company that sells a little bit of Software.
>
> If you were to look at the ratios this would be born out.
>
> So Apple store good idea.  MS store bad idea.



MS and Apple are ALREADY side by side in many locations, like 
MicroCenter, Fry's, and Beast Buy. It makes a difference for Apple to 
demonstrate their hardware personally, but people are already familiar 
with PCs, so what's the point of a Microsoft store? Virtually all stores 
that sell software are Microsoft stores, including the Apple stores.


What's the point--MS vs Apple? They're only rivals in the eyes of MS. To 
Apple, they're complementary [as well as thieves/plagiarizers]. 
Obviously MS has lots of money to waste when they should be using it on 
R&D and QA/QC.


Betty


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS)]

Okay, you asked and I took a stab at defining excitement and you panned
it.  So, Jeff, tag, you're it: tell us (or stop sneering).  Make it
relevant, too and tell us how M$ will generate excitement.

Thank you,

Mark Snyder
-Original Message-
> Apple generates lots of "excitement" at their stores when they release

> a new product.  People line up for the opening at their stores; that 
> is consumer excitement.

We normal types call that kind of excitement "marketing hype" and those
people lining up, "schmucks."


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[t.piwowar]

On Jul 17, 2009, at 10:13 AM, Matthew Taylor wrote:

Hmm - I don't normally go for coffee but ...


I read about a fireworks stand in Washington state that was doing  
this too. Sorry no pics.


Hard times call for...


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[t.piwowar]

On Jul 17, 2009, at 10:25 AM, Jeff Wright wrote:
I think that it's good as it meets Apple on its own turf and isn't  
counting

on a captive audience to maintain their bottom line.


Did you see David Pogue's recent video that starts with a litany of M 
$ products that are mere copies of other company's good ideas? This  
would be just one more clueless M$ copy. The company has not had an  
original non-felonious idea in many years.



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Wright]

> So Apple store good idea.  MS store bad idea.

I think that it's good as it meets Apple on its own turf and isn't counting
on a captive audience to maintain their bottom line.  They need to change
the way they do business, as we've seen with the laptop hunter ads.  Just on
Appleista agitation alone, they are a smashing success.

MS has been run over in the road so many times by upstarts and more gung-ho
competitors, that they don't even bother to look at the headlights any
longer.  It's about time they got off their ass and did something about it.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[t.piwowar]

On Jul 17, 2009, at 6:44 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote:

Okay, Jeff, here goes.  Apple generates lots of "excitement" at their
stores when they release a new product.


Not just then. The stores are very well designed to showcase their  
product and provide lots of time for hands-on experimenting. Unlike  
other stores Apple is perfectly fine with folks using the gear  
intensively. Some travelers even use Apple Stores like internet  
cafes. Customers interact and swap insights like no other store I  
have ever seen. The store is almost like a club. I once needed to  
know something about the innards of a new model. I went to the Apple  
Store and took a Mac partially apart. Nobody seemed to mind. All this  
produces an exciting and appealing atmosphere.


Meanwhile at the Zune Store they will be holding a seminar on "How To  
Use the Group Policy Editor to Manage Local Computer Policy in  
Windows." Cool. Or is that "cold?"



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[t.piwowar]

On Jul 17, 2009, at 5:09 AM, Jeff Miles wrote:
Maybe I haven't gone far enough through my email yet, but I can't  
believe anyone has actually answered the "exciting" question yet.   
We have several coffee shops in town that are causing a lot of  
controversy. The coffee makers are all women and wear nothing but  
lingerie. I don't have a problem with this, but some people do. And  
the shops are quite busy.


Might work for M$. Otherwise it will be a Zune store.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Wright]

> Apple generates lots of "excitement" at their
> stores when they release a new product.  People line up for the opening
> at their stores; that is consumer excitement.  

We normal types call that kind of excitement "marketing hype" and those
people lining up, "schmucks."

YMMV.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Matthew Taylor]

Hmm - I don't normally go for coffee but ...

What shops are these?

Matthew

On Jul 17, 2009, at 5:09 AM, Jeff Miles wrote:

	Maybe I haven't gone far enough through my email yet, but I can't  
believe anyone has actually answered the "exciting" question yet.   
We have several coffee shops in town that are causing a lot of  
controversy. The coffee makers are all women and wear nothing but  
lingerie. I don't have a problem with this, but some people do. And  
the shops are quite busy.


Jeff M



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jordan]

Yes, that is what I was referring to. You got it right the first time.

On Jul 16, 2009, at 2:53 PM, Jordan wrote:
Talking to sharp people about the good stuff they sell can be 
satisfying and stimulating to some of us.


Sounds like an Apple Store.

t.piwowar wrote:

On Jul 16, 2009, at 7:30 PM, Jordan wrote:
I understood that you were being sarcastic, but the audio and visual 
stimulation in some of the mass market stores is successful at the 
stimulation you speak of for most people.


Clearly you have not been in an Apple Store. They do not look anything 
like a Circuit City.





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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Chris Dunford]

> I for the life of me cannot understand why MS wants to open retail stores.
> 
> MS is a software company that sells a little bit of hardware.

I don't think we know yet that the MS stores are going to sell only MS 
products, do we?


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Rev. Stewart Marshall]

OK here goes again.

Apples versus Oranges (pun intended)

I for the life of me cannot understand why MS wants to open retail stores.

MS is a software company that sells a little bit of hardware.

Apple is a Hardware company that sells a little bit of Software.

If you were to look at the ratios this would be born out.

So Apple store good idea.  MS store bad idea.

Stewart

At 05:44 AM 7/17/2009, you wrote:

Okay, Jeff, here goes.  Apple generates lots of "excitement" at their
stores when they release a new product.  People line up for the opening
at their stores; that is consumer excitement.  M$'s biggest "excitement"
recently was when they reduced the advanced purchase of home versions of
Windows7 (feeling lucky?) by about 40% in the UK for a small number of
media-licenses so they could outsell Vista's advanced purchase.

Seriously, M$ is totally ignorant about marketing and will probably lose
huge chunks of cash trying to be Apple.  And I can't see people lining
up outside the M$ store.

Thank you,

Mark Snyder


Rev. Stewart A. Marshall
mailto:popoz...@earthlink.net
Prince of Peace www.princeofpeaceozark.org
Ozark, AL  SL 82


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS)]

Okay, Jeff, here goes.  Apple generates lots of "excitement" at their
stores when they release a new product.  People line up for the opening
at their stores; that is consumer excitement.  M$'s biggest "excitement"
recently was when they reduced the advanced purchase of home versions of
Windows7 (feeling lucky?) by about 40% in the UK for a small number of
media-licenses so they could outsell Vista's advanced purchase. 

Seriously, M$ is totally ignorant about marketing and will probably lose
huge chunks of cash trying to be Apple.  And I can't see people lining
up outside the M$ store.  

Thank you,

Mark Snyder
-Original Message-
Maybe I haven't gone far enough through my email yet, but I
can't believe anyone has actually answered the "exciting" question yet.
We have several coffee shops in town that are causing a lot of
controversy. The coffee makers are all women and wear nothing but
lingerie. I don't have a problem with this, but some people do. And the
shops are quite busy.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Miles]

	Maybe I haven't gone far enough through my email yet, but I can't  
believe anyone has actually answered the "exciting" question yet.  We  
have several coffee shops in town that are causing a lot of  
controversy. The coffee makers are all women and wear nothing but  
lingerie. I don't have a problem with this, but some people do. And  
the shops are quite busy.


Jeff M


On Jul 16, 2009, at 11:53 AM, Jordan wrote:

Just like so many other places in our sick society, retailers go to  
great lengths to be extreme and super stimulating in an effort to be  
"exciting." I tend to find such places repulsive.
Talking to sharp people about the good stuff they sell can be  
satisfying and stimulating to some of us.


phartz...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Jeff Wright  
wrote:



Which is about as "exciting" as an Apple store.  You know, about  
as exciting

as a Gap store.



 What the heck makes any store "exciting?"  Does your heart actually
begin to race when you enter certain stores and your adrenalin begin
to pump?

 Steve





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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[phartz...@gmail.com]

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Jordan wrote:

> I understood that you were being sarcastic, but the audio and visual
> stimulation in some of the mass market stores is successful at the
> stimulation you speak of for most people.

  One day I was in a music store at Tyson's Corner Center in Mclean VA
a number of years ago.  I was just killing some time while waiting for
a bus.  There was some of this 'stimulating' music being played rather
loudly on the music system in the store, and I began to notice that I
was hearing the "F" word repeatedly over the loudspeakers.  The "F"
word was part of the lyrics of the song being played.

  I walked out of the store, down the mall concourse a bit, and could
still hear the song and the "F" word clearly.  I walked back into the
store, and looking around, could see that the place was crawling with
young kids, teens and pre-teens.  As the song was ending, I asked for
the manager, got her attention, and asked her what was just playing.
She told me, and I did not recognize the group, but told her it was a
very inappropriate choice given the presence of all the young folks in
the store, which I might add, was their normal crowd.  I also noted to
her that anyone nearby in the hallway putside the store was also being
subjected to the repeating "F" word.  She kinda grunted and said
"sorry" and that was about it.

  When I got home I was still upset about it and contacted the mall
management, telling them that to be subjecting shoppers walking down
the hallway to such language, not to mention the children in the
store, was just plain wrong.  Mall management said that whatever the
store wanted to do within their confines was their business, but they
did understand my concerns about subjecting others outside the store
to such language.

  I know.  I'm an out-of-date fogey who should mind his own business,
but I just couldn't help myself.

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[mike]

Yeah, thought it was 9.99 but it's 15 bux.  Still not bad for those kids who
want new music every 20 minutes.  I've been sticking with getting new stuff
from local bands.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Chris Dunford  wrote:

> > > Well when you *pay* for them that usually means you got them from a
> > > vendor.
> >
> > She spent $30,000 on tunes? Wow. I want her allowance.
>
> Oh, I see where you've gone wrong--you're thinking of iPod. She can
> download as much as she wants for $15/month with Zune Pass.
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Chris Dunford]

> > Well when you *pay* for them that usually means you got them from a
> > vendor.
> 
> She spent $30,000 on tunes? Wow. I want her allowance.

Oh, I see where you've gone wrong--you're thinking of iPod. She can download as 
much as she wants for $15/month with Zune Pass.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Wright]

> Nope. She had the iPod, her brother has a Zune. She used both and liked
the
> Zune better. She is, in fact, going against the current since the cool
kids
> are going to stick their noses in the air and
> sniff aristocratically.

Thank god we've grown out of that whole thing around here, eh?


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Wright]

> Clearly you have not been in an Apple Store. They do not look
> anything like a Circuit City.

Closed?


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Chris Dunford]

>   Or, just as likely, a boyfriend or girlfriend just got a Zune, so
> she's gotta get one too is she is at that impressionable, I wanna be
> one of the crowd age.

Nope. She had the iPod, her brother has a Zune. She used both and liked the 
Zune better. She is, in fact, going against the current since the cool kids are 
going to stick their noses in the air and
sniff aristocratically.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Chris Dunford]

> > Well, my daughter's iPod has died. She wants a Zune. Not another iPod.
> 
> So will you let her out of the attic now?

Well, unlike you, she bases her opinions on actual experience. She's used both 
her iPod and her brother's Zune. She likes the Zune better. Sorry if that 
offends your sensibilities.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[t.piwowar]

On Jul 16, 2009, at 7:30 PM, Jordan wrote:
I understood that you were being sarcastic, but the audio and  
visual stimulation in some of the mass market stores is successful  
at the stimulation you speak of for most people.


Clearly you have not been in an Apple Store. They do not look  
anything like a Circuit City.



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jordan]

t.piwowar wrote:

On Jul 16, 2009, at 2:53 PM, Jordan wrote:
Talking to sharp people about the good stuff they sell can be 
satisfying and stimulating to some of us.


Sounds like an Apple Store.

That and a good book store, and a good sporting goods store(REI and 
such) are the most reliable places for this. And maybe some of the best 
department stores.(Which I go to once every 5 or 10 years)



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jordan]

I understood that you were being sarcastic, but the audio and visual 
stimulation in some of the mass market stores is successful at the 
stimulation you speak of for most people.


Jeff Wright wrote:

Which is about as "exciting" as an Apple store.  You know, about as
  

exciting
  

as a Gap store.
  

  What the heck makes any store "exciting?"  Does your heart actually
begin to race when you enter certain stores and your adrenalin begin
to pump?



You missed the invisible /sarcasm tag.

  



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[mike]

Ah, the obtuse on purpose ploy...you can't fool me.

On 7/16/09, t.piwowar  wrote:
> On Jul 16, 2009, at 6:14 PM, mike wrote:
>> Well when you *pay* for them that usually means you got them from a
>> vendor.
>
> She spent $30,000 on tunes? Wow. I want her allowance.
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[t.piwowar]

On Jul 16, 2009, at 6:14 PM, mike wrote:
Well when you *pay* for them that usually means you got them from a  
vendor.


She spent $30,000 on tunes? Wow. I want her allowance.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[mike]

Well when you *pay* for them that usually means you got them from a vendor.


On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 3:09 PM, t.piwowar  wrote:

> On Jul 16, 2009, at 5:22 PM, mike wrote:
>
>> Perhaps his daughter realized for the price of a CD she can jam a 120 gigs
>> of music onto a Zune the day she brings it home.
>>
>
> M$'s Ballmer says he needs to ask her where all that music came from
> (implying that he is not a good parent).
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/04/ballmer_ipod_thieves/
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[t.piwowar]

On Jul 16, 2009, at 5:22 PM, mike wrote:
Perhaps his daughter realized for the price of a CD she can jam a  
120 gigs

of music onto a Zune the day she brings it home.


M$'s Ballmer says he needs to ask her where all that music came from  
(implying that he is not a good parent).


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/04/ballmer_ipod_thieves/


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[phartz...@gmail.com]

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 5:58 PM, mike wrote:

> Yah, ipods aren't like that at all...right..yeah.

  iPods are treated just the same by many youngsters when they see
their friends with them.  Boy or girl hooks up with a mate who has an
iPod and they'll likely want one as well.  Break up and hook up with
someone who has another make, and they'll likely want that one.  It is
called "fitting in."  Not exclusive to any one brand.

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[mike]

Yah, ipods aren't like that at all...right..yeah..

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 2:55 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 5:22 PM, mike wrote:
>
> > Perhaps his daughter realized for the price of a CD she can jam a 120
> gigs
> > of music onto a Zune the day she brings it home.
>
>   Or, just as likely, a boyfriend or girlfriend just got a Zune, so
> she's gotta get one too is she is at that impressionable, I wanna be
> one of the crowd age.
>
>  Steve
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[phartz...@gmail.com]

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 5:22 PM, mike wrote:

> Perhaps his daughter realized for the price of a CD she can jam a 120 gigs
> of music onto a Zune the day she brings it home.

  Or, just as likely, a boyfriend or girlfriend just got a Zune, so
she's gotta get one too is she is at that impressionable, I wanna be
one of the crowd age.

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[phartz...@gmail.com]

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Jeff Wright wrote:

> You missed the invisible /sarcasm tag.

  I kinda suspected it, but was actually posing a generic question
about a lot ofstores in general and how they seem to like to portray
themselves.

 Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[mike]

Sounds like she escaped the Apple walled garden.  She realized suddenly
there was something called 'choice' and 'variety' out there.  After buying 7
ipods myself, I decided when I need something new I will probably go with
the sansa.  I can get a 2 gig sansa for 70 bux, for less then 20 more I can
get a 16gig microSDHC, so for less then 100 I've got a 18 gig player.  What
am I missing?  A pretty interface I never really see since I'm *listening*
?  Itunes which I really only use cause it works with the ipod?

Perhaps his daughter realized for the price of a CD she can jam a 120 gigs
of music onto a Zune the day she brings it home.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 11:46 AM, t.piwowar  wrote:

> On Jul 16, 2009, at 2:09 PM, Chris Dunford wrote:
>
>> Well, my daughter's iPod has died. She wants a Zune. Not another iPod.
>>
>
> So will you let her out of the attic now?
>
>
>
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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jeff Wright]

> > Which is about as "exciting" as an Apple store.  You know, about as
exciting
> > as a Gap store.
> 
>   What the heck makes any store "exciting?"  Does your heart actually
> begin to race when you enter certain stores and your adrenalin begin
> to pump?

You missed the invisible /sarcasm tag.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[rleesimon]

Adrenalin pumps when progeny picks out expensive items and wallet comes out
of pocket!!

-Original Message-
From: phartz...@gmail.com [mailto:phartz...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: Friendly neighbors?

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Jeff Wright wrote:

> Which is about as "exciting" as an Apple store.  You know, about as
exciting
> as a Gap store.

  What the heck makes any store "exciting?"  Does your heart actually
begin to race when you enter certain stores and your adrenalin begin
to pump?

  Steve


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[t.piwowar]

On Jul 16, 2009, at 2:50 PM, mike wrote:
The idea is MS would build a store right next to the apple store,  
see one,

you'd see the other.


The now defunct Ekerd Drugs built stores next to CVS'. This made it  
easy to compare and confirm that CVS was better.



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[t.piwowar]

On Jul 16, 2009, at 2:53 PM, Jordan wrote:
Talking to sharp people about the good stuff they sell can be  
satisfying and stimulating to some of us.


Sounds like an Apple Store.


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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[Jordan]

Just like so many other places in our sick society, retailers go to 
great lengths to be extreme and super stimulating in an effort to be 
"exciting." I tend to find such places repulsive.
Talking to sharp people about the good stuff they sell can be satisfying 
and stimulating to some of us.



phartz...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Jeff Wright wrote:

  

Which is about as "exciting" as an Apple store.  You know, about as exciting
as a Gap store.



  What the heck makes any store "exciting?"  Does your heart actually
begin to race when you enter certain stores and your adrenalin begin
to pump?

  Steve

  



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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[mike]

The kind of people that don't think apple is their way of life and that they
are just a hardware company.

The idea is MS would build a store right next to the apple store, see one,
you'd see the other.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) <
mark.sny...@ngc.com> wrote:

> What kind of people have never been exposed to an Apple store?  How
> would M$ Vista/Zune store expose them to Apple store?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Mark Snyder
> -Original Message-
>
> It might just expose more people to the Apple store.
>
> Snyder, Mark - IdM (IS) wrote:
> > Windows/Zune-Mart?  How exciting!  Bet they just suck all of the
> > oxygen from the Market!  Who'd be seen dead going into an Apple Store
> anymore?
> > I can see them lining up around the block over night now.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Mark Snyder
> > -Original Message-
> >
> >> Microsoft to Open Retail Stores Next to Apple's
> >>
> >> http://tinyurl.com/myrkw3
> >>
> >
> > Curious strategy, but I say it's about time MS actually competes.
> > Enough of coasting on inertia.
> >
> >
>
>
> 
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Re: [CGUYS] Friendly neighbors?

[t.piwowar]

On Jul 16, 2009, at 2:32 PM, phartz...@gmail.com wrote:

What the heck makes any store "exciting?"  Does your heart actually
begin to race when you enter certain stores and your adrenalin begin
to pump?


Apple store can do that.

Zune store, I doubt it. M$ won't do much better than the Gateway  
stores. Remember them?



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