Re: [Cooker] rc1 install test

[Pablo Saratxaga]

Kaixo!

On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 06:37:38PM +0200, Thierry Vignaud wrote:

> > 3.  The fonts in all the GTK2 stuff look terrible.  Very choppy on
> > my 1024x768 LCD, which is a very common thing on laptops.  The

the gnome font configurator (gnome-font-properties) has fine-tuning options,
some of them for LCD displays.
Does it makes it better?


-- 
Ki ça vos våye bén,
Pablo Saratxaga

http://chanae.walon.org/pablo/  PGP Key available, key ID: 0xD9B85466
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Re: [Cooker] rc1 install test

[John Keller]

Buchan Milne wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Sep 2003, Adam Williamson wrote:
>
> > Erm...is 1024x768 actually your laptop's native resolution? Reason I ask
> > is I see no problem at all with the 1024x768 images on my CRT. Unless
> > you mean the white lines which become more prominent in a spherical
> > pattern in the top and slightly to the left, in which case they're, uh,
> > part of the image, not a bug. :)
>
> Actually, it might be worth a bug report, the image looks much worse on
> LCD than CRT, the LILO splash screen is dificult to read because of the
> graniness near the spotlighted part.

I'd been meaning to get off my duff and do it for a while. Here it is:
http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5311

- John

Re: [Cooker] rc1 install test

[John Keller]

Guillaume Cottenceau wrote:
> I'm not sure Pixel will want to spend the necessary time to make
> this real. Changing steps in the installer has always been buggy.
> It's complicated and not really designed for it. Removing it
> completely allowed us to do things like deleting image files for
> language selection once language is selected and thus reduce the
> risk of no-space-left-on-device when downloading other install
> programs during install (xfs formatter etc).

That's fine with me (though I wouldn't mind an "abort install" button). I
just started the list because there's always a churning period where people
often bring up the same ideas. I placed your reply in the list for reference
(always nice to have "why not" as well).

Now at:
http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/MdkInstaller

- John

Re: [Cooker] rc1 install test

[Buchan Milne]

On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, Austin wrote:

> 
> On 09/05/2003 09:14:32 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > okay - see my reply to your other post, i think between that and the
> > other replies in this thread I think we have it all sorted out, yeah? :)
> 
> Yeah I understand the problem... I think I always did.  I was just bringing it  
> up to see if it has to be done this way.  Why can't drakx detect my vgahi card  
> and screen and use vgahi?

Because by the time DrakX can do anything (even stage1 or 2), it's too 
late. You can't change the framebuffer resolution (AFAIK) once you have 
booted (or if you can, at least not reliably). Of course, you could always 
ask to have all the XFree86 drivers included, then they wouldn't need to 
restrict us to framebuffer X, but that would balloon the size of 
everything, and we might as well use Knoppix (or minicd) instead.

> 
> In fact, vgahi is not even presented as an option for syslinux.  It's like  
> having a pretty bootsplash is a secret for linux developers only.  :-)

You obviously haven't used F2 at the syslinux boot screen ... but maybe 
the vgahi description could be moved to the F1 screen?

Regards,
Buchan

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Re: [Cooker] rc1 install test

[Buchan Milne]

On Sat, 6 Sep 2003, Adam Williamson wrote:

> Erm...is 1024x768 actually your laptop's native resolution? Reason I ask
> is I see no problem at all with the 1024x768 images on my CRT. Unless
> you mean the white lines which become more prominent in a spherical
> pattern in the top and slightly to the left, in which case they're, uh,
> part of the image, not a bug. :)

Actually, it might be worth a bug report, the image looks much worse on 
LCD than CRT, the LILO splash screen is dificult to read because of the 
graniness near the spotlighted part.

Regards,
Buchan

-- 
|Registered Linux User #182071-|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121
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Re: [Cooker] rc1 install test

[Austin]

On 09/05/2003 09:14:32 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
okay - see my reply to your other post, i think between that and the
other replies in this thread I think we have it all sorted out, yeah? :)
Yeah I understand the problem... I think I always did.  I was just bringing it  
up to see if it has to be done this way.  Why can't drakx detect my vgahi card  
and screen and use vgahi?

In fact, vgahi is not even presented as an option for syslinux.  It's like  
having a pretty bootsplash is a secret for linux developers only.  :-)

Austin

--
   Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc.
Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant
  Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com)
homepage: www.groundstate.ca

Re: [Cooker] rc1 install test

[Adam Williamson]

On Sat, 2003-09-06 at 02:13, Austin wrote:
> On 09/05/2003 08:06:46 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > Erm...is 1024x768 actually your laptop's native resolution?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> > Reason I ask
> > is I see no problem at all with the 1024x768 images on my CRT.
> 
> Neither do I.

okay - see my reply to your other post, i think between that and the
other replies in this thread I think we have it all sorted out, yeah? :)
-- 
adamw

Re: [Cooker] rc1 install test

[Austin]

On 09/05/2003 08:06:46 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
Erm...is 1024x768 actually your laptop's native resolution?
Yes.

Reason I ask
is I see no problem at all with the 1024x768 images on my CRT.
Neither do I.

Austin
--
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Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant
  Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com)
homepage: www.groundstate.ca

Re: [Cooker] rc1 install test

[Adam Williamson]

On Fri, 2003-09-05 at 01:02, Austin wrote:
> I just installed rc1 on my laptop (finally, been VERY busy lately).
> 
> A few notes:
> 
> 1.  There are still not many 'BACK' button in drakx.  This is very  
> frustrating for a user when he screws up.
> 
> 2.  Draksound chose trident() as my soundcard driver, which is OSS.  I  
> thought alsa was the default.  If it's not, why is the alsa daemon run  
> by default?
> 
> 3.  The fonts in all the GTK2 stuff look terrible.  Very choppy on my  
> 1024x768 LCD, which is a very common thing on laptops.  The 'real' text  
> mode fonts look fine though.
> 
> 4.  While the 'look' of the splash screen and lilo splash is GREAT, the  
> quality is HIDEOUS.  Again, this is scaled to 1024x768 on an LCD.   
> There are crazy white lines through the nice blue background.  It looks  
> like plaid almost.  Is there no better way to scale the images to  
> 1024x768?

Erm...is 1024x768 actually your laptop's native resolution? Reason I ask
is I see no problem at all with the 1024x768 images on my CRT. Unless
you mean the white lines which become more prominent in a spherical
pattern in the top and slightly to the left, in which case they're, uh,
part of the image, not a bug. :)
-- 
adamw

Re: [Cooker] rc1 install test

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Austin wrote:
> On 09/05/2003 01:33:44 PM, Thierry Vignaud wrote:
>
>> Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>> > > > 3.  The fonts in all the GTK2 stuff look terrible.  Very choppy
>> on
>> > > > my 1024x768 LCD, which is a very common thing on laptops.  The
>> > > > 'real' text mode fonts look fine though.
>> > >
>> > > maybe can you upload a few screenshots on some site and post  their
>> > > urls?
>
>
> As I suspected, the screenshots look beautiful when viewed with eog.
> So it must just be the way stuff gets scaled/rendered in Drakx on my
> screen.

No, it's that the installer uses the framebuffer X driver, so resolution
is dependant on the framebuffer mode, which defaults to 800x600, which
will alias badly on 1024x768 (not so badly on 1600x1200 of course, if
you have the res ...).

> Guess there's no easy way to fix that.

There's always a way:
vgahi
at syslinux prompt (does it for me).

(BTW, since we have mostly NVidia cards here, our default network
bootdisk is vgahi ...)

>
> Same for the bootsplash screen... the image file jpegs look fine in
> gnome, even at 1:1 scaling.  Funny it looks so choppy at boot-time.

vga=791
(or maybe 792)

Regards,
Buchan

- --
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Re: [Cooker] rc1 install test

[Guillaume Cottenceau]

"John Keller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Thierry Vignaud wrote:
> > Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > 
> > > I just installed rc1 on my laptop (finally, been VERY busy lately).
> > > 
> > > A few notes:
> > > 
> > > 1.  There are still not many 'BACK' button in drakx.  This is very
> > > frustrating for a user when he screws up.
> > 
> > postponed to mdk10
> 
> This is now officially the first item in the Mdk 10 wishlist:
> http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/RequestedFeatures

I'm not sure Pixel will want to spend the necessary time to make
this real. Changing steps in the installer has always been buggy.
It's complicated and not really designed for it. Removing it
completely allowed us to do things like deleting image files for
language selection once language is selected and thus reduce the
risk of no-space-left-on-device when downloading other install
programs during install (xfs formatter etc).

-- 
Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/

Re: [Cooker] rc1 install test

[Austin]

On 09/05/2003 01:33:44 PM, Thierry Vignaud wrote:
Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> > > 3.  The fonts in all the GTK2 stuff look terrible.  Very choppy
on
> > > my 1024x768 LCD, which is a very common thing on laptops.  The
> > > 'real' text mode fonts look fine though.
> >
> > maybe can you upload a few screenshots on some site and post  
their
> > urls?
As I suspected, the screenshots look beautiful when viewed with eog.   
So it must just be the way stuff gets scaled/rendered in Drakx on my  
screen.  Guess there's no easy way to fix that.

Same for the bootsplash screen... the image file jpegs look fine in  
gnome, even at 1:1 scaling.  Funny it looks so choppy at boot-time.

Austin

Re: [Cooker] rc1 install test

[Thierry Vignaud]

Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> > > 3.  The fonts in all the GTK2 stuff look terrible.  Very choppy on
> > > my 1024x768 LCD, which is a very common thing on laptops.  The
> > > 'real' text mode fonts look fine though.
> > 
> > maybe can you upload a few screenshots on some site and post their
> > urls?
> 
> Sure.  How can I take a screenshot in drakx?

from gi/docs/SHORTCUTS in cvs: "F2 -> take a screenshot"

Re: [Cooker] rc1 install test

[Austin]

On 09/05/2003 12:13:46 PM, John Keller wrote:
Did you run the vgahi install? I did, and the graphical install  
looked
good
on my 1024x768 (native) LCD.
Well, no.  I was just testing the installer like Joe User.
Personally I don't care how drakx looks.  As long as I can get  
basesystem installed, that's all I need.

I'm not sure a digital camera shot will do it justice, but I can try to  
post what it looks like.

Austin

Re: [Cooker] rc1 install test

[Austin]

On 09/05/2003 12:37:59 PM, Thierry Vignaud wrote:
anyway, since alan cox won't maintain much OSS drivers in the short
term, sound card default drivers may be progressively switched from
OSS to ALSA.
Sure, that's cool.

> 3.  The fonts in all the GTK2 stuff look terrible.  Very choppy on
> my 1024x768 LCD, which is a very common thing on laptops.  The
> 'real' text mode fonts look fine though.
maybe can you upload a few screenshots on some site and post their
urls?
Sure.  How can I take a screenshot in drakx?

Austin

Re: [Cooker] rc1 install test

[John Keller]

Thierry Vignaud wrote:
> Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > I just installed rc1 on my laptop (finally, been VERY busy lately).
> > 
> > A few notes:
> > 
> > 1.  There are still not many 'BACK' button in drakx.  This is very
> > frustrating for a user when he screws up.
> 
> postponed to mdk10

This is now officially the first item in the Mdk 10 wishlist:
http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/RequestedFeatures

Can be moved to a separate page if it explodes.

- John

Re: [Cooker] rc1 install test

[Thierry Vignaud]

Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I just installed rc1 on my laptop (finally, been VERY busy lately).
> 
> A few notes:
> 
> 1.  There are still not many 'BACK' button in drakx.  This is very
> frustrating for a user when he screws up.

postponed to mdk10
 
> 2.  Draksound chose trident() as my soundcard driver, which is OSS.  I  
> thought alsa was the default.  If it's not, why is the alsa daemon run  
> by default?

default is not set by draksound but by ldetect-lst.
there's no global "let's default to OSS" or "let's default to ALSA".

how each chard defautt was done ?
- initially all cards defaulted to OSS
- at every new alsa release, i defaulted new supported sound cards to
  ALSA
- then, on users requests, some cards defaults were switched between
  OSS & ALSA (in both directions).

there's not "let enforce ALSA or OSS" policy, it's more or less "let's
see what works the best for end users" policy :-)

anyway, since alan cox won't maintain much OSS drivers in the short
term, sound card default drivers may be progressively switched from
OSS to ALSA.
 
> 3.  The fonts in all the GTK2 stuff look terrible.  Very choppy on
> my 1024x768 LCD, which is a very common thing on laptops.  The
> 'real' text mode fonts look fine though.

maybe can you upload a few screenshots on some site and post their
urls?

pablo?
 
> 4.  While the 'look' of the splash screen and lilo splash is GREAT,
> the quality is HIDEOUS.  Again, this is scaled to 1024x768 on an
> LCD.  There are crazy white lines through the nice blue background.
> It looks like plaid almost.  Is there no better way to scale the
> images to 1024x768?

we currently cannot know easily the fb resolution, 800x600 works
everywhere (eg matrox support only 800x600, not 1024x768), ... so we
enforece 800x600 (at least for mdk9.2)

Re: [Cooker] rc1 install test

[John Keller]

Austin wrote:
> 3.  The fonts in all the GTK2 stuff look terrible.  Very choppy on my
> 1024x768 LCD, which is a very common thing on laptops.  The 'real' text
> mode fonts look fine though.

Did you run the vgahi install? I did, and the graphical install looked good
on my 1024x768 (native) LCD.

- John

Re: [Cooker] [RC1 bug] apache-conf and esperanto

[Michael Scherer]

On Thursday 04 September 2003 16:09, Grégoire Colbert wrote:
> Saluton!
>
> There is an internationalisation problem with
> "apache-conf-2.0.47-3mdk", which is very easy to fix. In
> "/etc/httpd/conf/commonhttpd.conf", you cannot find the line :
> AddLanguage eo .eo
> which would allow to use content negociation with esperanto web
> pages.
>
> This is not a surprise, because the bug is corrected *only* in the
> current Apache CVS, not in 2.0.47 which appeared earlier :
> http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=21685
>
> So, can you fix this file before Mandrake 9.2 final?

can you please fill a bug report for it on qa.mandrakesoft.com ?

it allows us to keep track of what should be done, and will send the 
bugreport to the right person, instead of having the mail lost in the 
1000 mails per day of the ml.

thanks for your testing and your attention

-- 

Michaël Scherer

Re: [Cooker] rc1 and cooker freeze when selecting software to be installed

[Guillaume Cottenceau]

Bernard Varaine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> in rpmdrake  cooker updates or in software selection when installing rc1
> from scratch the system freeze.
> Well not all the time but cannot find exactly what is causing it.
> it is doing it on my cooker notebook and onmy server (which I am
> reinstallign from scratch following multiple hardware failure)
> 
> seems silly but being too fast to select software seem to be the cause
> of the problem..

this was the case before 9.1, I workarounded in our code, there
was a bug in gtk. now I can't reproduce, even when
selecting/unselecting as fast as I can with the mouse. I'm using

rpmdrake-2.1-32mdk
libgtk+2.0_0-2.2.3-1mdk

-- 
Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/

Re: [Cooker] rc1 the last rc before final ?

[Martin Fahrendorf]

Am Freitag, 29. August 2003 13:57 schrieb Buchan Milne:
> David Coe wrote:
> > Steffen Barszus wrote:
> >> pro-linux reports that rc1 nay be the last rc before final version.
>
> This is the same site that had the bad review of 9.1?

Jep, It is the same site. Only if you use debian or better gentoo and LFS you 
are a real linux geek in their eyes (ok, a little bit exaggerated).

But in my own expirience 9.1 was not as goog as 9.0. Most of the problems were 
solved with updates. But this problems was very different from the 9.1 test 
in the pro-linux site.

...

>
> Regards,
> Buchan

Martin
-- 

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Re: [Cooker] rc1 the last rc before final ?

[danny]

On Sat, 30 Aug 2003, w9ya wrote:
> On Friday 29 August 2003 10:25 am, Buchan Milne wrote:
> > > Copy of the reply I got from Bob, since it didn't go to the list:
> >


> > Bob, you are free to ask for write access to the Wiki, and CHANGE IT
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > All I have seen coming from this address is complaints, and all the
> > people you are complaining about, and who's work you are deriding,
> > contribute *directly* to the distro ...
> >
> > Buchan
> 
> Sigh..
> 
> Your last paragraph above is obviously designed to be insulting towards me. 
> And this is not the first time you have done so with me (and others I might 
> add).
I think it was a gently way of stimulating you to a more active 
contribution to cooker.

> 
> I am replying in the hope that others will learn by this. I am not so foolish 
> to think you will, as people like you often continue to act this way despite 
> constructive feedback.
You are not that long on the list, so you probably missed a few of 
interesting fights^H^H^Hlessons. 
> B
> You state I am complaining and deriding others work and you have chosen to 
> complain about me doing this and are posting my private emails to you in 
> public. Besides being ironic, let's consider each of these in turn, but in no 
I'm not sure but I thought that the idea was that your mail somehow failed 
to reach the list, but, I could be wrong.

> this to others and that this is not the first time you have lashed out at me.
I assume there were good reasons. 

> 
> sending an email with a 'bug report deriding someones' work. That you see 
> this as such is (again) quite disturbing.
I find it equally disturbing you have problems handling critics.

> At this point I will seriously consider *NOT* contributing to this list 
> anymore. That should make you very happy, but that is not why I am making 
> this choice. I just think that I don't want to needlessly be further exposed 
> to being insulted this way, or engage further discussion to just allow you to 
> continue to insult me. SO...
Well, IMO Buchan is of more value to cooker-devel than you are. So go 
ahead. But if you decide to stay on list afterall, get used to some 
bashing, it will happen more often to you.

> 
> Please do not bother to reply to me about this, as it will go un-answered, as 
> will any further email about this to this list.
In that case, you should not have bothered sending this email at all.

d.

Re: [Cooker] rc1 the last rc before final ?

[w9ya]

On Friday 29 August 2003 10:25 am, Buchan Milne wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> John Keller wrote:
> > Copy of the reply I got from Bob, since it didn't go to the list:
> >
> > On Friday 29 August 2003 08:45 am, John Keller wrote:
> >>w9ya wrote:
> >>
> >>I think that the Wiki serves an important role in presenting information
> >>that might normally be drowned out on the list. I've just spent an entire
> >>night making it so that it's easier to find the information without
> >>resorting to a search, expressly so people can quickly get to key info
> >
> > from
> >
> >>the front page.
> >
> > When they are and remain organized.
>
> They are a lot more organised. The release schedule is linked from the
> main page. Show us any page which *really* needs to be linked in from
> the main page, and we can oblige you.
>
> >>I think it's unreasonable to expect the level of redundancy on the
> >> mailing list that you're asking for. What happens when someone
> >> subscribes after
> >
> > the
> >
> >>crucial announcement? What about me, missing half a day's messages due to
> >>some unexplained problem? What makes you sure that some key announcement
> >>will be seen by everyone?
> >
> > Well nothing is perfect , even wikis. (see my comment above)
>
> But wikis are better than extra spam on the list for information anyone
> can easily lookup if they take any effort.
>
> >>The sheer fact that you missed the information about OO.o being included
> >
> > in
> >
> >>RC2 says to me that you, like anyone else, can easily miss the one
> >>announcement that matters to them. Then we're back to square one with the
> >>complaints...
> >
> > Actually I saw the request, and a saw a message from Warly. The
>
> english was
>
> > poor enough I wasn't sure if it was rc1 or rc2 of OO.
>
> Well, maybe you would prefer to have Warly post in French, or are you
> offering to proof-read everyone's email?
>
> >>If you don't like the Wiki, fine. But it was implemented as a solution to
> >>precisely the problem that you bring up. It's unreasonable to dismiss
> >> that solution and still complain that information isn't being conveyed
> >> (when it is) just because it's not in the format you want.
> >
> > Again, until you reorganized the wiki, the information was *effectively*
> > lost
> > to me.
>
> Bob, you are free to ask for write access to the Wiki, and CHANGE IT
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> All I have seen coming from this address is complaints, and all the
> people you are complaining about, and who's work you are deriding,
> contribute *directly* to the distro ...
>
> Buchan

Sigh..

Your last paragraph above is obviously designed to be insulting towards me. 
And this is not the first time you have done so with me (and others I might 
add).

I am replying in the hope that others will learn by this. I am not so foolish 
to think you will, as people like you often continue to act this way despite 
constructive feedback.

You state I am complaining and deriding others work and you have chosen to 
complain about me doing this and are posting my private emails to you in 
public. Besides being ironic, let's consider each of these in turn, but in no 
particular order.

First - It is considered polite to ask whether a privately sent email can be 
shared with a list before posting it or any reply to such a private email on 
a list, which you did not do with the above. The reason why you are suppose 
to ask first is that language is a sensitive thing, and you might not 
understand or know what an author is trying to convey to you. It is often 
arrogant to think otherwise. I *know* you have misinterpreted me, and sharing 
this misinterpretation in a public forum should be something that you ask to 
do with private emails. Even if you say otherwise, no-one, you included, 
would like to have your private emails handled without due courtesy.

Second - My emails on the subject of the wiki were to make a suggestion that 
emails be sent as well as wiki contributions. I was *not* complaining but 
taking my time to explain in later emails why I felt as I did as a response 
to *your* follow-up emails.

Additionally I have sent emails to cooker concerning problems as they have 
become apparent to me in several packages and such, and these emails have led 
to specific fixes and other improvements. This is as it should be for 
testers; i.e. they should give feedback.

Other than these emails, I have not sent any other emails to this list, except 
to explain in detail when asked to. The fact that you see such feedback as 
complaints is entirely your consideration.

Third - All in all, you seem annoyed with me and my emails and have chosen to 
make this rather public for reasons that should probably best remain to 
yourself. Your opinions concerning me, and they are no more than that, are 
written in an insulting manner, and serve no useful purpose in parading 
before the rest of these list members. I should also point out that you do 

Re: [Cooker] rc1 the last rc before final ?

[Steffen Barszus]

Am Freitag, 29. August 2003 14:24 schrieb Guillaume Cottenceau:
> David Coe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Quoted from the top-right corner of
> >  which also was hurriedly
> > corrected yesterday to remove reference to RC2. More haste less
> > speed :-)
>
> Argh, an error from our webmasters. Reported. Thanks.

Thanks for clearing this :)

Re: [Cooker] rc1 the last rc before final ?

[Greg Meyer]

On Friday 29 August 2003 10:42 am, w9ya wrote:
> Actually, ALL email programs I am aware of can deal with this just fine. I
> have considered changing them, but most emailing lists I subscribe to
> replace
> that field on incoming messages to the reflector itself. I need this setting
> for other work. Perhaps Mandrake can change the way their reflector works ?

Perhaps since most mail clients can have multiple profiles, you could set one 
up just for posting to Cooker.  This way, you can solve your problem, and 
your problem doesn't inconvenience the rest of the list.  Or perhaps the rest 
of the list can deal with your arrogance on this issue by doing what I do and 
simply ignore your posts.
-- 
/g

"Outside of a dog, a man's best friend is a book, inside
a dog it's too dark to read" -Groucho Marx

Re: [Cooker] rc1 the last rc before final ?

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

John Keller wrote:
> Copy of the reply I got from Bob, since it didn't go to the list:
>
> On Friday 29 August 2003 08:45 am, John Keller wrote:
>
>>w9ya wrote:

>>I think that the Wiki serves an important role in presenting information
>>that might normally be drowned out on the list. I've just spent an entire
>>night making it so that it's easier to find the information without
>>resorting to a search, expressly so people can quickly get to key info
>
> from
>
>>the front page.
>
> When they are and remain organized.
>

They are a lot more organised. The release schedule is linked from the
main page. Show us any page which *really* needs to be linked in from
the main page, and we can oblige you.

>
>
>>I think it's unreasonable to expect the level of redundancy on the mailing
>>list that you're asking for. What happens when someone subscribes after
>
> the
>
>>crucial announcement? What about me, missing half a day's messages due to
>>some unexplained problem? What makes you sure that some key announcement
>>will be seen by everyone?
>
> Well nothing is perfect , even wikis. (see my comment above)
>

But wikis are better than extra spam on the list for information anyone
can easily lookup if they take any effort.

>
>>The sheer fact that you missed the information about OO.o being included
>
> in
>
>>RC2 says to me that you, like anyone else, can easily miss the one
>>announcement that matters to them. Then we're back to square one with the
>>complaints...
>
>
> Actually I saw the request, and a saw a message from Warly. The
english was
> poor enough I wasn't sure if it was rc1 or rc2 of OO.

Well, maybe you would prefer to have Warly post in French, or are you
offering to proof-read everyone's email?

>
>
>>If you don't like the Wiki, fine. But it was implemented as a solution to
>>precisely the problem that you bring up. It's unreasonable to dismiss that
>>solution and still complain that information isn't being conveyed (when it
>>is) just because it's not in the format you want.
>
>
> Again, until you reorganized the wiki, the information was *effectively*
> lost
> to me.

Bob, you are free to ask for write access to the Wiki, and CHANGE IT
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

All I have seen coming from this address is complaints, and all the
people you are complaining about, and who's work you are deriding,
contribute *directly* to the distro ...

Buchan

- --
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Re: [Cooker] rc1 the last rc before final ?

[John Keller]

Copy of the reply I got from Bob, since it didn't go to the list:

On Friday 29 August 2003 08:45 am, John Keller wrote:
> w9ya wrote:
> > No comments on wikis. Or maybe better put; I had better not waste
>
> everyones
>
> > time on my impressions of wikis. In any event; I think the timetable
>
> *needs*
>
> > to reiterated on the mailing list as "milestones" approach as stuff on a
>
> wiki
>
> > is easily "missed".
>
> I think that the Wiki serves an important role in presenting information
> that might normally be drowned out on the list. I've just spent an entire
> night making it so that it's easier to find the information without
> resorting to a search, expressly so people can quickly get to key info
from
> the front page.

When they are and remain organized.


>
> I think it's unreasonable to expect the level of redundancy on the mailing
> list that you're asking for. What happens when someone subscribes after
the
> crucial announcement? What about me, missing half a day's messages due to
> some unexplained problem? What makes you sure that some key announcement
> will be seen by everyone?

Well nothing is perfect , even wikis. (see my comment above)

>
> The sheer fact that you missed the information about OO.o being included
in
> RC2 says to me that you, like anyone else, can easily miss the one
> announcement that matters to them. Then we're back to square one with the
> complaints...

Actually I saw the request, and a saw a message from Warly. The english was
poor enough I wasn't sure if it was rc1 or rc2 of OO.

>
> If you don't like the Wiki, fine. But it was implemented as a solution to
> precisely the problem that you bring up. It's unreasonable to dismiss that
> solution and still complain that information isn't being conveyed (when it
> is) just because it's not in the format you want.

Again, until you reorganized the wiki, the information was *effectively*
lost
to me.

>
> - John
>
> P.S. Your e-mail settings override the ability to reply to the list,
> instead of just to you. You may want consider changing them, or else the
> list will miss some of the very information that you say it should have.


Actually, ALL email programs I am aware of can deal with this just fine. I
have considered changing them, but most emailing lists I subscribe to
replace
that field on incoming messages to the reflector itself. I need this setting
for other work. Perhaps Mandrake can change the way their reflector works ?

Best regards;

Bob

Re: [Cooker] rc1 the last rc before final ?

[John Keller]

w9ya wrote:
> No comments on wikis. Or maybe better put; I had better not waste
everyones
> time on my impressions of wikis. In any event; I think the timetable
*needs*
> to reiterated on the mailing list as "milestones" approach as stuff on a
wiki
> is easily "missed".

I think that the Wiki serves an important role in presenting information
that might normally be drowned out on the list. I've just spent an entire
night making it so that it's easier to find the information without
resorting to a search, expressly so people can quickly get to key info from
the front page.

I think it's unreasonable to expect the level of redundancy on the mailing
list that you're asking for. What happens when someone subscribes after the
crucial announcement? What about me, missing half a day's messages due to
some unexplained problem? What makes you sure that some key announcement
will be seen by everyone?

The sheer fact that you missed the information about OO.o being included in
RC2 says to me that you, like anyone else, can easily miss the one
announcement that matters to them. Then we're back to square one with the
complaints...

If you don't like the Wiki, fine. But it was implemented as a solution to
precisely the problem that you bring up. It's unreasonable to dismiss that
solution and still complain that information isn't being conveyed (when it
is) just because it's not in the format you want.

- John

P.S. Your e-mail settings override the ability to reply to the list, instead
of just to you. You may want consider changing them, or else the list will
miss some of the very information that you say it should have.

Re: [Cooker] rc1 the last rc before final ?

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

w9ya wrote:

>
> No comments on wikis. Or maybe better put; I had better not waste
everyones
> time on my impressions of wikis.

Yes, since a lot of others realise the benefits, and contribute,
regardless of the extra effort required to write good content on a wiki
instead of flaming on a mailng list. Wiki's die when people don't show
an interest ...

> In any event; I think the timetable *needs*
> to reiterated on the mailing list as "milestones" approach as stuff on
a wiki
> is easily "missed".

Or, people can just check the release schedule every few days on their
own when they know that a release may impact their own planning.

>>and he also posted amessage to this list when Cooker Was Frozen...
>>http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=mandrake-cooker&m=106199249931465&w=2
>
>
> Well, the point was it need to be a message that said in advance that
a freeze
> was coming in (on let's say) two weeks. Something like that.

There were, just not to this list. Any one with a real interest in
freeze in main got one.

> Sorry if that
> wasn't clear, I guess I shouldn't have assumed everyone remembered the
> essence of the previous threads on this. (A 1/2 a year ago or so.)
>
>
>>>In any event, there are some packages like OO that should probably be
>>
>>upgraded
>>
>>
>>>and given a chance to be tested well. A freeze announcement would have
>>>allowed this to happen in a more controllable manner other than "oh well,
>>>things are now frozen, no more changes, and this is the last testing
>>>release". Put another way: Yes freezes are important, but I do agree that
>>>some things need to be upgraded prior to a freeze and advanced
>>
>>announcement
>>
>>
>>>of an upcoming freeze allows everyone involved in testing a chance to be
>>>a part of these upgrades.
>>
>>OOo will be in RC2 according to Warly:
>>http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=mandrake-cooker&m=106206826212175&w=2
>
>
> Good. Again this is one example (and perhaps a poor one as it is being
> upgraded). However I do not mean that every possible package should be
> upgraded either.

Of course, not, it's the role of the release manager to decide which
ones do, and which ones don't. Warly obviously agreed to allow OO.o-1.1,
but refused samba-3.0.0 (so samba3 will stay in contribs). Of course,
this doesn't have to happen on public lists (since then the real issues
often get lost).

> Again, announcement(s) a week or two ahead would allow for
> such things to happen more smoothly.

Well, IMHO it's the maintainers responsibility to warn people of
upcoming large upgrades, as I would have done if samba3 were accepted
into main.

Regards,
Buchan

- --
|--Another happy Mandrake Club member--|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
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iD8DBQE/T1T4rJK6UGDSBKcRAjIvAKCANkW5/OjfK2XaqMbzxf+Ydy9argCgx3OO
fNwReUzzy5Fc6qEmkbd1ThY=
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Re: [Cooker] rc1 the last rc before final ?

[Guillaume Cottenceau]

David Coe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Quoted from the top-right corner of
>  which also was hurriedly
> corrected yesterday to remove reference to RC2. More haste less
> speed :-)

Argh, an error from our webmasters. Reported. Thanks.

-- 
Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/

Re: [Cooker] rc1 the last rc before final ?

[w9ya]

On Friday 29 August 2003 07:11 am, Thomas Backlund wrote:
> From: "w9ya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > On Friday 29 August 2003 05:02 am, Steffen Barszus wrote:
> > > Hi !
> > >
> > > pro-linux reports that rc1 nay be the last rc before final version. Is
> > > that true ? I haven't read anything about that and don't know where
> > > they got that information from. A typical pro-linux misinformation ?
> > >
> > > regards
> > >
> > > Steffen
> >
> > Gosh I hope not.
>
> Warly already reported that an RC2 is coming...
>
> > For the following reasons;
>
> [...]
>
> > 5 - I didn't catch a "freeze is upcoming on such and such a date"
> > announcement. This lack of advanced notice appeared to be a major
>
> complaint
>
> > from the testers on the 9.1 testing. The reasons testers wanted this to
> > be announced were covered well at that time (or so I thought).
>
> This info was in the estimated timetable done by Warly:
> http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/ReleaseInfo#Schedule_estimat
>ion_WarLy

No comments on wikis. Or maybe better put; I had better not waste everyones 
time on my impressions of wikis. In any event; I think the timetable *needs* 
to reiterated on the mailing list as "milestones" approach as stuff on a wiki 
is easily "missed".

>
> and he also posted amessage to this list when Cooker Was Frozen...
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=mandrake-cooker&m=106199249931465&w=2

Well, the point was it need to be a message that said in advance that a freeze 
was coming in (on let's say) two weeks. Something like that. Sorry if that 
wasn't clear, I guess I shouldn't have assumed everyone remembered the 
essence of the previous threads on this. (A 1/2 a year ago or so.)

>
> > In any event, there are some packages like OO that should probably be
>
> upgraded
>
> > and given a chance to be tested well. A freeze announcement would have
> > allowed this to happen in a more controllable manner other than "oh well,
> > things are now frozen, no more changes, and this is the last testing
> > release". Put another way: Yes freezes are important, but I do agree that
> > some things need to be upgraded prior to a freeze and advanced
>
> announcement
>
> > of an upcoming freeze allows everyone involved in testing a chance to be
> > a part of these upgrades.
>
> OOo will be in RC2 according to Warly:
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=mandrake-cooker&m=106206826212175&w=2

Good. Again this is one example (and perhaps a poor one as it is being 
upgraded). However I do not mean that every possible package should be 
upgraded either. Again, announcement(s) a week or two ahead would allow for 
such things to happen more smoothly. With less full time personnel, this 
would seem to be prudent (IMHO).

Very best regards;

Bob F.

>
> > I could go on some more, with some fine points, and some additional
>
> comments,
>
> > but this should be sufficient for the purpose of outlining the major
>
> issues
>
> > concerned  with rc1 as the final testing release.
> >
> > Bob Finch
>
> Regards
>
> Thomas

Re: [Cooker] rc1 the last rc before final ?

[w9ya]

On Friday 29 August 2003 06:45 am, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 12:19, w9ya wrote:
> > 1 - Config files for pcmcia-wlan are reported to be messed up. This is
> > *not*
>
> Uh? Reported where? I missed this...

Here ! (Several messages/bug reports)

Um, btw, the ifplugd "dying" stuff appears to be corrected for me in (very) 
informal testing. Is that now o.k. for you too ? <- I didn't see anything in 
the email from bugzilla indicating the fixes, perhaps it is incidental ?

Best regards;

Bob F.

Re: [Cooker] rc1 the last rc before final ?

[Bernard Varaine]

Well

I can confirm they are messed up.

Since my last update my D-link pcmcia card stop working properly...
iwconfig show there is there but no HW address...for example.

Bernard


Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 12:19, w9ya wrote:
> 
> 
>>1 - Config files for pcmcia-wlan are reported to be messed up. This is *not* 
> 
> 
> Uh? Reported where? I missed this...

-- 

Digital Objects Ltd

Internet security / Web hosting & design / Web enabled applications


PO Box 60510, Titirangi
Waitakere City

Phone: 0800 LETS DOIT (538736)
Fax: +64 9 8128 368
www.digitalobjects.co.nz

<<>>>


smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

Re: [Cooker] rc1 the last rc before final ?

[Thomas Backlund]

From: "w9ya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> On Friday 29 August 2003 05:02 am, Steffen Barszus wrote:
> > Hi !
> >
> > pro-linux reports that rc1 nay be the last rc before final version. Is
> > that true ? I haven't read anything about that and don't know where
> > they got that information from. A typical pro-linux misinformation ?
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Steffen
>
> Gosh I hope not.
>

Warly already reported that an RC2 is coming...

> For the following reasons;
>
[...]
>
> 5 - I didn't catch a "freeze is upcoming on such and such a date"
> announcement. This lack of advanced notice appeared to be a major
complaint
> from the testers on the 9.1 testing. The reasons testers wanted this to be
> announced were covered well at that time (or so I thought).
>

This info was in the estimated timetable done by Warly:
http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/ReleaseInfo#Schedule_estimation_WarLy

and he also posted amessage to this list when Cooker Was Frozen...
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=mandrake-cooker&m=106199249931465&w=2

> In any event, there are some packages like OO that should probably be
upgraded
> and given a chance to be tested well. A freeze announcement would have
> allowed this to happen in a more controllable manner other than "oh well,
> things are now frozen, no more changes, and this is the last testing
> release". Put another way: Yes freezes are important, but I do agree that
> some things need to be upgraded prior to a freeze and advanced
announcement
> of an upcoming freeze allows everyone involved in testing a chance to be a
> part of these upgrades.

OOo will be in RC2 according to Warly:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=mandrake-cooker&m=106206826212175&w=2

>
> I could go on some more, with some fine points, and some additional
comments,
> but this should be sufficient for the purpose of outlining the major
issues
> concerned  with rc1 as the final testing release.
>
> Bob Finch
>

Regards

Thomas

Re: [Cooker] rc1 the last rc before final ?

[Steffen Barszus]

Am Freitag, 29. August 2003 13:57 schrieb Buchan Milne:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> David Coe wrote:
> > Steffen Barszus wrote:
> >> pro-linux reports that rc1 nay be the last rc before final
> >> version.
>
> This is the same site that had the bad review of 9.1?

Jep, and I don't like them either ;) But this information seems to come 
from oddicial rc1 announce >:(

> >> Is
> >> that true ? I haven't read anything about that and don't know
> >> where they got that information from. A typical pro-linux
> >> misinformation ?
> >
> > Quoted from the top-right corner of
> >  which also was hurriedly
> > corrected yesterday to remove reference to RC2. More haste less
> > speed :-)
>
> How about using the authoratative schedule:
>
> http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/ReleaseInfo#Schedule_e
>stimation_WarLy

Yep I would preferably use that too, but why the heck does the above get 
announced ? To put some pressure on testers ?? ;) 

> Of course, note that we are about a week behind schedule.

Hope all gets ready what I want to have for 9.2 ;) And I hope I didn't 
trigger a big whining and complaining thread as we had for 9.1 . 

Steffen

Re: [Cooker] rc1 the last rc before final ?

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

David Coe wrote:
> Steffen Barszus wrote:
>
>> pro-linux reports that rc1 nay be the last rc before final version.

This is the same site that had the bad review of 9.1?

>> Is
>> that true ? I haven't read anything about that and don't know where
>> they got that information from. A typical pro-linux misinformation ?
>
>
> Quoted from the top-right corner of 
> which also was hurriedly corrected yesterday to remove reference to RC2.
> More haste less speed :-)
>

How about using the authoratative schedule:

http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/ReleaseInfo#Schedule_estimation_WarLy

Of course, note that we are about a week behind schedule.

Regards,
Buchan

- --
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Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202
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Re: [Cooker] rc1 the last rc before final ?

[Adam Williamson]

On Fri, 2003-08-29 at 12:19, w9ya wrote:

> 1 - Config files for pcmcia-wlan are reported to be messed up. This is *not* 

Uh? Reported where? I missed this...
-- 
adamw

Re: [Cooker] rc1 the last rc before final ?

[w9ya]

On Friday 29 August 2003 05:02 am, Steffen Barszus wrote:
> Hi !
>
> pro-linux reports that rc1 nay be the last rc before final version. Is
> that true ? I haven't read anything about that and don't know where
> they got that information from. A typical pro-linux misinformation ?
>
> regards
>
> Steffen

Gosh I hope not. 

For the following reasons;

1 - Config files for pcmcia-wlan are reported to be messed up. This is *not* 
something newbies will be able to get working well on their own easily if at 
all. i.e. LOTS more testing is needed in this area, and Mandrake has gotten 
pcmcia card configs significantly wrong for several releases. (This is 
historic and not debatable. The config files were over 2 years old at one 
point ! It should be important to get this right for a change IMHO.)

2- KDE is not installing the correct stuff out of the box, and alot of menuing 
changes with odd results have taken place recently. While this could be very 
fixable with good stable mirroring for download testing, it is more likely 
that too many of the mirrors are messed up too often to allow for sufficient 
feedback on these problems. 

Additionally recent history with cooker would indicate that the problems 
associated with Mandrake's recent breakup of KDE into more discrete packages 
has had some (predictable) issues that have not been resolved through the 
past two beta/rc releases. 

3 - A large number of install issues were present with the beta issues. Some 
of this was reported to be initscripting issues. IMHO if rc1 has alot of 
problems in this area, another rc would be indicated for the *obvious* 
reasons related to customer satisfaction.

4 - The current mirroring situation appears to be too many mirrors too often 
out of sync for too long a time period. If the changes/testing/feedback/ and 
fix cycle is too long for such short testing time frames and there are not 
enough releases to compensate for these long testing "time frames" then it is 
predictable that more problems will be present in the final release.

5 - I didn't catch a "freeze is upcoming on such and such a date" 
announcement. This lack of advanced notice appeared to be a major complaint 
from the testers on the 9.1 testing. The reasons testers wanted this to be  
announced were covered well at that time (or so I thought).

In any event, there are some packages like OO that should probably be upgraded 
and given a chance to be tested well. A freeze announcement would have 
allowed this to happen in a more controllable manner other than "oh well, 
things are now frozen, no more changes, and this is the last testing 
release". Put another way: Yes freezes are important, but I do agree that 
some things need to be upgraded prior to a freeze and advanced announcement 
of an upcoming freeze allows everyone involved in testing a chance to be a 
part of these upgrades.

I could go on some more, with some fine points, and some additional comments, 
but this should be sufficient for the purpose of outlining the major issues 
concerned  with rc1 as the final testing release.

Bob Finch

Re: [Cooker] rc1 the last rc before final ?

[David Coe]

Steffen Barszus wrote:

pro-linux reports that rc1 nay be the last rc before final version. Is 
that true ? I haven't read anything about that and don't know where 
they got that information from. A typical pro-linux misinformation ? 
Quoted from the top-right corner of  
which also was hurriedly corrected yesterday to remove reference to RC2. 
More haste less speed :-)

Re: [Cooker] rc1 torrent

[Levi Ramsey]

On Fri Aug 29  0:19 +0200, Buchan Milne wrote:
> Don't know what you mean ... ISOs are on sunet.se at the usual lag of one 
> day, and my mirror which is one day behind sunet.se has been working find 
> with 'urpmi.pdate -a;urpmit --auto-select --auto' in cron.daily. Granted, 
> it (sunet) was behind a day on Monday/Tuesday.

This jumping from one mirror to another is getting *very* tiresome.  In
the past week or so, I've jumped from redbox.cz to uninett.no to
sunet.se.

-- 
Levi Ramsey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Take due notice and govern yourselves accordingly.
Currently playing: Metallica - Mama Said single (UK) - Mama Said (Earl
Linux 2.4.21-3mdk
 00:40:00 up 24 days,  9:58, 13 users,  load average: 0.43, 0.56, 0.27

Re: [Cooker] rc1 torrent

[Todd Lyons]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Tom Brinkman wanted us to know:

>> to your poor download rates.  Then again, it could be because you
>> were one of the first out of the gates too.
>   I reckon'd that too Todd. I figured I already had more than could 

That sounds pretty reasonable.  But hearing some getting 700 kB/s it
makes me think something else negative was at work too.

>be contributed. Still, what's the problem with puttin 'em on the 
>ftp mirrors? ..  minus the name games of the past? 

It's showing up on the mirrors:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ rsync mirrors.usc.edu::mandrake-iso/i586/
drwxr-xr-x4096 2003/08/26 15:42:13 .
- -rw-r--r-- 440 2003/08/27 02:22:30 9.2rc1.md5sums.asc
- -rw-r--r--   661946368 2002/12/21 04:43:47 Clic-PH1-9.0-SNAP_DEC2002.iso
- -rw-r--r--  64 2002/12/21 04:43:47 Clic-PH1-9.0-SNAP_DEC2002.md5sum
- -rw-r--r--   682563584 2003/08/26 15:23:56 MandrakeLinux-9.2rc1-CD1.i586.iso
- -rw-r--r--   681476096 2003/08/26 14:56:30 MandrakeLinux-9.2rc1-CD2.i586.iso
- -rw-r--r--   681175040 2003/08/26 11:01:02 MandrakeLinux-9.2rc1-CD3.i586.iso
- -rw-r--r--   262668288 2002/12/10 09:24:03 MandrakeSecurity-MNF.i586.iso
- -rw-r--r-- 343 2003/08/19 01:59:06 md5sum.mnf

It just takes a while for 2 Gigs of material to transfer out of the
Paris office to the master rsync server to all of the top tier rsync
servers to all of the second tier rsync servers.  I think that usc that
I quoted above is a third tier rsync server (but I'm not totally sure
about that).  It takes a little while :)

>> Yes, they are resumable.  It scans through the file comparing the
>   On CD1, d4x started all over again. NBFD. I'm lettin all 3 iso's 

What is d4x?  Why not just use the official bittorrent python scripts?
- -- 
Blue skies...   Todd
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Re: [Cooker] rc1 torrent

[Buchan Milne]

On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Tom Brinkman wrote:

> I don't like my experience with BT, YMMV. To me tho, it's an 
> ever increasing trend into obscurity. Not mine, Mandrakes. Sort'a 
> like the usual trend lately with urpmi.update -a -f --wget on 
> cooker mirrors, includin sunsite and sunet, the primaries.

Don't know what you mean ... ISOs are on sunet.se at the usual lag of one 
day, and my mirror which is one day behind sunet.se has been working find 
with 'urpmi.pdate -a;urpmit --auto-select --auto' in cron.daily. Granted, 
it (sunet) was behind a day on Monday/Tuesday.

Regards,
Buchan

-- 
|Registered Linux User #182071-|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
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Re: [Cooker] rc1 torrent

[Adam Williamson]

On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 19:09, Tom Brinkman wrote:
> On Thursday August 28 2003 06:40 am, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > >   Why are games played on iso releases?
> >
> > What do you mean? Previously, ISOs were released on mirrors. Now,
> > ISOs are released on mirrors and also on BitTorrent. Who's losing
> > out? What is there to get angry about? Even if you don't like
> > BT...
> 
> I've been here for a while. Cooker since shortly before 7.2
> Need I remind you of the 9.1 RC3 iso's that were the finals ?
> Didn't fool me. I was already uset'a cooker games as final is 
> approached.

Will you quit it with the clever-clever attempt to type out your Texan
idiom? It's a pain to read and I can only imagine it's *hard* to read
for the large percentage of non-native English speakers on this list.

> I don't like my experience with BT, YMMV. To me tho, it's an 
> ever increasing trend into obscurity. Not mine, Mandrakes. Sort'a 
> like the usual trend lately with urpmi.update -a -f --wget on 
> cooker mirrors, includin sunsite and sunet, the primaries.

OK, your post is a complete non-sequitur to mine. Your argument seems to
be: you don't like BitTorrent, so Mandrake's release policy sucks. Never
mind the fact that BitTorrent is only being used IN ADDITION to the
existing distribution infrastructure, the FTP mirrors, so no-one's
losing out. This was my argument in response to your original post. This
reply adds precisely nothing to the substance of your argument, you just
bitch and whine a bit more. What's the problem with the
final-named-as-RC trick? They've used it - successfully - for the last
couple of releases in order to allow all the mirrors to sync up before
the download flood hits when people realise the final has been released.
I don't see how you could possibly have a problem with that, given that
the alternative is even more pressure on a few main mirrors while the
other mirrors are unable to sync up and spread the load.
-- 
adamw

Re: [Cooker] rc1 torrent

[Tom Brinkman]

On Thursday August 28 2003 06:40 am, Adam Williamson wrote:
> >   Why are games played on iso releases?
>
> What do you mean? Previously, ISOs were released on mirrors. Now,
> ISOs are released on mirrors and also on BitTorrent. Who's losing
> out? What is there to get angry about? Even if you don't like
> BT...

I've been here for a while. Cooker since shortly before 7.2
Need I remind you of the 9.1 RC3 iso's that were the finals ?
Didn't fool me. I was already uset'a cooker games as final is 
approached.

I don't like my experience with BT, YMMV. To me tho, it's an 
ever increasing trend into obscurity. Not mine, Mandrakes. Sort'a 
like the usual trend lately with urpmi.update -a -f --wget on 
cooker mirrors, includin sunsite and sunet, the primaries.
-- 
Tom Brinkman  Corpus Christi, Texas

Re: [Cooker] rc1 torrent

[Tom Brinkman]

On Wednesday August 27 2003 11:39 pm, Brook Humphrey wrote:
> Well I restarted many times hoping it was just some error or
> something and it does indeed resume the downlaod and does not do
> it from the start again.

   I've got a 1457byte/s connection to a ftp server now (sunet). 
Usin d4x to d/l CD2 & CD3 simultaneously. I had, after sufferin 22 
hours of bittorrent, about 50% of each. d4x started from the 
beginning again, no resume. NBFD, I'm jus glad to be done with 
slowly gettin sucked on, with little to no input ;)  bittorrent sux  
In 2 hours I'll have the damn iso's, an I'll let y'all torrent fans 
suck on 'em to your hearts content
-- 
Tom Brinkman  Corpus Christi, Texas

Re: [Cooker] rc1 torrent

[Byron Poland]

On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 02:49, Leon Brooks wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:28, Todd Lyons wrote:
> > I'd be curious to see what the traffic for those ports are on the
> > master server.
> 
> Even hits/day on the .torrent files would be informative.


Well with torrentsniff (availible in contribs) you can get this type of
info:

[EMAIL PROTECTED] downloads]$ torrentsniff MandrakeLinux-9.2rc1-CD1.i586.iso.torrent
MandrakeLinux-9.2rc1-CD1.i586.iso.torrent
   info hash:  c1e40d097296f7818c3eb0c6f610727fcb478495
   announce url:   http://qa.mandrakesoft.com:6969/announce
   full copies:166 seeds
   partial copies: 143 leeches
 Bytes File
   682,563,584 MandrakeLinux-9.2rc1-CD1.i586.iso
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] downloads]$

Looks like a pretty good balance right now, when I started yesterday it
was like 20 leeches to 1 seed.  (I ended up using ftp to grab them, as
the tracker kept having connection issues for me, then started up the
torrent again to help spread it)

Re: [Cooker] rc1 torrent

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Tom Brinkman wrote:
> On Wednesday August 27 2003 11:28 pm, Todd Lyons wrote:
>
>>I'm maxing my line out at 110 kB/s down and 14 kB/s up.  That's
>>maxed. I'd  guess there was congestion elsewhere that contributed
>>to your poor download rates.  Then again, it could be because you
>>were one of the first out of the gates too.
>
>
>I reckon'd that too Todd. I figured I already had more than could
> be contributed. Still, what's the problem with puttin 'em on the
> ftp mirrors? ..  minus the name games of the past?

They are on the mirrors:

ftp://mandrake.redbox.cz/Mandrake-iso/i586/

Just some mirrors are a bit behind:
ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/Linux/distributions/mandrake-iso/i586/

So I will have to wait a while longer till they arrive on our local mirror:
ftp://ftp.sun.ac.za/iso-images/mandrake-beta/

(no, it's not feasible for me to download, whether by bittorrent or ftp :-()

Regards,
Buchan

- --
|--Another happy Mandrake Club member--|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x202
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
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Re: [Cooker] rc1 torrent

[Adam Williamson]

On Thu, 2003-08-28 at 03:27, Tom Brinkman wrote:
> On Wednesday August 27 2003 07:45 pm, Brook Humphrey wrote:
> > However I was only getting about 2k or 3k max
> > and most the time it was sitting at 0.
> 
>   Yep, it sux. That's about the incomin I was gettin too
> 
> > This was my first and last 
> > use of bittorrent.
> 
>First time, tho I right'a way figured out how to get all 3 iso's 
> goin at once.  Even a 3x, bittorrent SUX. After 5 hours, you've 
> hardly left the starting gate. Plus now I reckon they're not 
> resumable either. Further suckyiness

Bittorrent is resumable and its download speed relies entirely on the
upload speed available from the clients who have already downloaded any
given file. It's not exactly rocket science. If it's slow, that means
there's not many people on the torrent or they're all capping their
upload speed. No reason to blame the program, which works very well.
I've downloaded at full ADSL speeds from torrents with reasonable
amounts of users before.

>   Why are games played on iso releases?

What do you mean? Previously, ISOs were released on mirrors. Now, ISOs
are released on mirrors and also on BitTorrent. Who's losing out? What
is there to get angry about? Even if you don't like BT...
-- 
adamw

Re: [Cooker] rc1 torrent

[Leon Brooks]

On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:28, Todd Lyons wrote:
> I'd be curious to see what the traffic for those ports are on the
> master server.

Even hits/day on the .torrent files would be informative.

Cheers; Leon

Re: [Cooker] rc1 torrent

[Deryk Robosson]

On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:27 am, Tom Brinkman wrote:
> On Wednesday August 27 2003 07:45 pm, Brook Humphrey wrote:
> > However I was only getting about 2k or 3k max
> > and most the time it was sitting at 0.
>
>   Yep, it sux. That's about the incomin I was gettin too

Bittorrent is a tit for tat system.  You only get what you put in.  Combine 
that with the number of sources avaialable and you get your swarm.

> > This was my first and last
> > use of bittorrent.
>
>First time, tho I right'a way figured out how to get all 3 iso's
> goin at once.  Even a 3x, bittorrent SUX. After 5 hours, you've
> hardly left the starting gate. Plus now I reckon they're not
> resumable either. Further suckyiness

You would be reckoning wrong.

-- 
Regards,
Deryk Robosson

Re: [Cooker] rc1 torrent

[Tom Brinkman]

On Wednesday August 27 2003 11:28 pm, Todd Lyons wrote:
> I'm maxing my line out at 110 kB/s down and 14 kB/s up.  That's
> maxed. I'd  guess there was congestion elsewhere that contributed
> to your poor download rates.  Then again, it could be because you
> were one of the first out of the gates too.

   I reckon'd that too Todd. I figured I already had more than could 
be contributed. Still, what's the problem with puttin 'em on the 
ftp mirrors? ..  minus the name games of the past? 

> >   First time, tho I right'a way figured out how to get all 3
> > iso's goin at once.  Even a 3x, bittorrent SUX. After 5 hours,
> > you've hardly left the starting gate. Plus now I reckon they're
> > not resumable either. Further suckyiness
>
> Yes, they are resumable.  It scans through the file comparing the
> md5 hashes and starts downloading at the spot where it stops
> matching, doing its scatter/gather from the available sources,
> constantly updating the master node letting it know how far it
> has gotten.
   
   On CD1, d4x started all over again. NBFD. I'm lettin all 3 iso's 
out on bichtttorent now, so y'all might not get as bothered by 
Mandrake's (lack of) supply system as I'm gettin to be.  If I've 
got anything worthwhile in the mornin for 2 & 3, I'll try a resume. 
But not with bitchtorrent. Still figure a d/l by ftp would be the 
ticket.  Why the games?  Are things that slim?
-- 
Tom Brinkman  Corpus Christi, Texas

Re: [Cooker] rc1 torrent

[parag shah]

On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 10:27:42AM +0800, Leon Brooks wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:45, Brook Humphrey wrote:
> > However I was only getting about 2k or 3k max and most the time it
> > was sitting at 0.
> 
> Currently getting at 38kB/s and giving at 3kB/s over a 512/128kb ADSL 
> link (ArachNet in Western Australia). Most of this morning that was 
> about 6/13 so I gather that my torrent has found another donor.
> 
> > This was my first and last use of bittorrent. Nice to know that
> > most the rest of you are sucking healthy but not giving any of
> > it back.
> 
> Because my link is asymmetrical, the most I can hope to give at is about 
> 13kB/s, and when uploads approach that they knacker downloads (which I 
> could fix with shaping if I wasn't so lazy).
> 
> > Thanks for confirming my suspicions. Well you all have one less pipe
> > to feed on now. Thanks for sharing the same that you receive.
> 
> No worries. Currently at 45/5, and I'll leave mine up for a few days 
> after it finishes to make up for that.
> 
Have the same not so happy experiance myself with it kept it on for now
more hten 14 hrs and barely got to be at 24% on cd1!!! and uploading at
least twice the download! infacdt its depressingly trickling in at 1k or
less all the time not going to bother with it if thats how it works out!
currently after 14 hrs its says will take another 35 hrs to get
finished! 

parag
 

Re: [Cooker] rc1 torrent

[Brook Humphrey]

On Wednesday 27 August 2003 21:28, Todd Lyons wrote:
> Yes, they are resumable.  It scans through the file comparing the md5
> hashes and starts downloading at the spot where it stops matching, doing
> its scatter/gather from the available sources, constantly updating the
> master node letting it know how far it has gotten.


Kinda interesting. I guess I could give it another go but it had better be a 
little more give and take and not all take this time.
>
> I'd be curious to see what the traffic for those ports are on the master
> server.

-- 
New and improved with advanced outlook crash handler. 

 -~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-
  Brook Humphrey   
Mobile PC Medic, 420 1st, Cheney, WA 99004, 509-235-9107
http://www.webmedic.net, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]   
 Holiness unto the Lord
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Re: [Cooker] rc1 torrent

[Brook Humphrey]

On Wednesday 27 August 2003 19:27, Tom Brinkman wrote:
>   First time, tho I right'a way figured out how to get all 3 iso's
> goin at once.  Even a 3x, bittorrent SUX. After 5 hours, you've
> hardly left the starting gate. Plus now I reckon they're not
> resumable either. Further suckyiness
Well I restarted many times hoping it was just some error or something and it 
does indeed resume the downlaod and does not do it from the start again. That 
still does not help the suckiness of it though. I had one iso about 50% done 
and it was telling me I still had about 5 or 6 hours left for the second iso 
I had 50 hours :( 


At that point I deleted both iso's fired up igloo-ftp (I paid for it might as 
well use it) and started again from scratch and well 3 hours later i have the 
first iso and the others will follow soon. 10 1/2 hours for all three doesn't  
sound to bad for me.
-- 
New and improved with advanced outlook crash handler. 

 -~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-
  Brook Humphrey   
Mobile PC Medic, 420 1st, Cheney, WA 99004, 509-235-9107
http://www.webmedic.net, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]   
 Holiness unto the Lord
 -~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-

Re: [Cooker] rc1 torrent

[Todd Lyons]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Tom Brinkman wanted us to know:

>> However I was only getting about 2k or 3k max
>> and most the time it was sitting at 0.
>  Yep, it sux. That's about the incomin I was gettin too

I'm maxing my line out at 110 kB/s down and 14 kB/s up.  That's maxed.
I'd  guess there was congestion elsewhere that contributed to your poor
download rates.  Then again, it could be because you were one of the
first out of the gates too.

>   First time, tho I right'a way figured out how to get all 3 iso's 
>goin at once.  Even a 3x, bittorrent SUX. After 5 hours, you've 
>hardly left the starting gate. Plus now I reckon they're not 
>resumable either. Further suckyiness

Yes, they are resumable.  It scans through the file comparing the md5
hashes and starts downloading at the spot where it stops matching, doing
its scatter/gather from the available sources, constantly updating the
master node letting it know how far it has gotten.

I'd be curious to see what the traffic for those ports are on the master
server.
- -- 
Blue skies...   Todd
| Get a bigger hammer!   |  Are you feeling lucky...punk? |
| http://www.mrball.net  |  I've had better days...   |
| http://faq.mrball.net  |  It's the end of the world as we know i|
Linux kernel 2.4.21-0.25mdk   6 users,  load average: 0.16, 0.18, 0.38
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Comment: http://www.mrball.net/todd.asc

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Zs77Nb427RbDGghmEHLjbjk=
=XpSN
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Re: [Cooker] rc1 torrent

[Tom Brinkman]

On Wednesday August 27 2003 07:45 pm, Brook Humphrey wrote:
> However I was only getting about 2k or 3k max
> and most the time it was sitting at 0.

  Yep, it sux. That's about the incomin I was gettin too

> This was my first and last 
> use of bittorrent.

   First time, tho I right'a way figured out how to get all 3 iso's 
goin at once.  Even a 3x, bittorrent SUX. After 5 hours, you've 
hardly left the starting gate. Plus now I reckon they're not 
resumable either. Further suckyiness

  Why are games played on iso releases?
-- 
Tom Brinkman  Corpus Christi, Texas

Re: [Cooker] rc1 torrent

[Leon Brooks]

On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:45, Brook Humphrey wrote:
> However I was only getting about 2k or 3k max and most the time it
> was sitting at 0.

Currently getting at 38kB/s and giving at 3kB/s over a 512/128kb ADSL 
link (ArachNet in Western Australia). Most of this morning that was 
about 6/13 so I gather that my torrent has found another donor.

> This was my first and last use of bittorrent. Nice to know that
> most the rest of you are sucking healthy but not giving any of
> it back.

Because my link is asymmetrical, the most I can hope to give at is about 
13kB/s, and when uploads approach that they knacker downloads (which I 
could fix with shaping if I wasn't so lazy).

> Thanks for confirming my suspicions. Well you all have one less pipe
> to feed on now. Thanks for sharing the same that you receive.

No worries. Currently at 45/5, and I'll leave mine up for a few days 
after it finishes to make up for that.

Cheers; Leon

Re: [Cooker] rc1 torrent

[Brook Humphrey]

On Wednesday 27 August 2003 16:45, Michael Reinsch wrote:
> Hi!
>
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:45:10 -0500
>
> Tom Brinkman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Bittorrent is the quickest way to turn a fast DSL connection into
> > a 14,4 dialup
>
> Try --max_upload_rate=8kb or something like that.

Nope my dsl has a limit on it they can never suck more than half my bandwidth 
because my isp caps it at 256k. However I was only getting about 2k or 3k max 
and most the time it was sitting at 0. This was my first and last use of 
bittorrent. Nice to know that most the rest of you are sucking healthy but 
not giving any of it back. 

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. Well you all have one less pipe to feed 
on now. Thanks for sharing the same that you receive. 

-- 
New and improved with advanced outlook crash handler. 

 -~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-
  Brook Humphrey   
Mobile PC Medic, 420 1st, Cheney, WA 99004, 509-235-9107
http://www.webmedic.net, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]   
 Holiness unto the Lord
 -~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-~`'~-

Re: [Cooker] rc1 torrent

[Michael Reinsch]

Hi!

On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:45:10 -0500
Tom Brinkman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Bittorrent is the quickest way to turn a fast DSL connection into
> a 14,4 dialup

Try --max_upload_rate=8kb or something like that.

-- 
  Michael Reinsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   http://mr.uue.org



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Re: [Cooker] rc1 torrent

[Tom Brinkman]

On Wednesday August 27 2003 09:51 am, Warly wrote:
> http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/torrent/
>
>
> To download it with bittorrent:
>
> btdownloadheadless.py --url
> http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/torrent/MandrakeLinux-9.2rc1-CD1.i586.
>iso.torrent --saveas MandrakeLinux-9.2rc1-CD1.i586.iso

Please put the iso's on the mirrors. Bittorrent is the quickest 
way to turn a fast DSL connection into a 14,4 dialup
-- 
Tom Brinkman  Corpus Christi, Texas

Re: [Cooker] RC1: localized OpenOffice1.0.2 not ocmplete

[utuhiro]

"W. Kasberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> No help-de is installed (the rpm is not on the CDs).

See http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=mandrake-cooker&m=104565416810770&w=2
>> OpenOffice doesn't have the Help files installed. 
>No OpenOffice.Org-help RPM files weren't included in RC1 ISOs because
>of lack of space.

Re: [Cooker] RC1 RFE: show drive description strings along with device nodes in installer

[Pixel]

Aleksander Adamowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Hi!
> Currently there are places in installer where the user has to select a hard
> drive for some operation (e.g. installing the bootloader).
> 
> However, the selection is ony possible by device node filenames (like
> /dev/hda) - one cannot always be sure what drive does a particular node
> correspond to.
> 
> I propose that in such places not only the device node filename be shown, but
> also a description of the device, like in this example:
> 
> /dev/hda: SAMSUNG SV2042H, ATA DISK drive

this could be done for bootloader, but this needs to modify the code a
little too much for 9.1

please give a list of the places you'd like this to be added. That
will get in my todo for next release.

Re: [Cooker] RC1 RFE: show drive description strings along withdevice nodes in installer

[James Sparenberg]

On Mon, 2003-02-24 at 07:07, Leon Brooks wrote:
> On Monday 24 February 2003 08:04 pm, Aleksander Adamowski wrote:
> > I propose that in such places not only the device node filename be
> > shown, but also a description of the device, like in this example:
> 
> > /dev/hda: SAMSUNG SV2042H, ATA DISK drive
> 
> Sensible, easy to implement. Seconded! (-:
> 
> Cheers; Leon

And would have saved me a pit pot full of trouble when I installed the
drives backward (Yep wiped out my home directory like that.) thank god
for backups.

James

> 
> 

files missing from kernel-source (was Re: [Cooker] RC1 install reporton IBM 600X)

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Buchan Milne wrote:
> I had some issues which I would like to air on cooker before I file
> bugzilla reports. I installed on my 600X which had a dualboot
> win2k/Mandrake 9.0 on it before.

1-4 (and probably 5) dealt with by Pixel (thanks!). Any takers for the
rest (Chmouel for 11)? kernel-source one is the biggest issue to me at
present (the only one I cannot fix easily myself).

BTW, thinkpad driver srpm at http://ranger.dnsalias.com/mandrake/cooker

>
> 11)Looking to compile the thinkpad drivers, I get:
>
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:3:2: #error "You should not include
> /usr/include/{linux,asm}/ header"
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:4:2: #error "files directly for the
> compilation of kernel modules."
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:5:2: #error ""
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:6:2: #error "glibc now uses kernel header
> files from a well-defined"
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:7:2: #error "working kernel version (as
> recommended by Linus Torvalds)"
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:8:2: #error "These files are glibc internal
> and may not match the"
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:9:2: #error "currently running kernel. They
> should only be"
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:10:2: #error "included via other system
> header files - user space"
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:11:2: #error "programs should not directly
> include  or"
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:12:2: #error " as well."
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:13:2: #error ""
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:14:2: #error "To build kernel modules
> please do the following:"
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:15:2: #error ""
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:16:2: #error " o Have the kernel sources
> installed"
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:17:2: #error ""
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:18:2: #error " o Make sure that the
> symbolic link"
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:19:2: #error "   /lib/modules/`uname
> -r`/build exists and points to"
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:20:2: #error "   the matching kernel source
> directory"
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:21:2: #error ""
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:22:2: #error " o Now copy
> /boot/vmlinuz.version.h to"
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:23:2: #error "   /lib/modules/`uname
> -r`/build/include/linux/version.h"
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:24:2: #error ""
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:25:2: #error " o When compiling, make sure
> to use the following"
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:26:2: #error "   compiler option to use the
> correct include files:"
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:27:2: #error ""
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:28:2: #error "   -I/lib/modules/`uname
> -r`/build/include"
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:29:2: #error ""
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:30:2: #error "   instead of"
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:31:2: #error ""
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:32:2: #error "   -I/usr/include/linux"
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:33:2: #error ""
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:34:2: #error "   Please adjust the Makefile
> accordingly."
> /usr/include/linux/version.h:35:2: #error
> "==="
>
> But:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] bgmilne]$ rpm -q kernel-source
> kernel-source-2.4.21-0.pre4.6mdk
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] bgmilne]$ ls /lib/modules/`uname -r`/build
> ls: /lib/modules/2.4.21pre4-6mdk/build: No such file or directory
>
> (this rpm that I was building builds just fine on 9.0 with 2.4.19-16mdk
> and 2.4.19-24mdk).
>
> Can the kernel-team fix the kernel-source, or provide docs on how to
> compile kernel modules, or even better, integrate the thinkpad driver.
>
> I think that is about it.
>
> Debugging info on request.
>
> Buchan
>

- --
|--Another happy Mandrake Club member--|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
GPG Key   http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc
1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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Re: [Cooker] RC1 RFE: show drive description strings along with device nodes in installer

[Leon Brooks]

On Monday 24 February 2003 08:04 pm, Aleksander Adamowski wrote:
> I propose that in such places not only the device node filename be
> shown, but also a description of the device, like in this example:

> /dev/hda: SAMSUNG SV2042H, ATA DISK drive

Sensible, easy to implement. Seconded! (-:

Cheers; Leon

Re: [Cooker] RC1 RFE: ability to specify partition size using a textbox,not only slider during partitioning phase

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Aleksander Adamowski wrote:
> Hi!
> In the 9.1 RC1 installer, the partitioning editor only has a slider for
> setting partition size.
> I have a large disk (120GB) and when I want to set a fine-grained size
> for my swap partition, I am completely unable to do it!
>
> The size jups between 0 MB and 711 MB when I drag the slider only one
> pixel to the right!
>
> This is unusable.

Not totally, you can use the arrow keys (not very intuitive, but it
works) to adjust the size in 1MB increments, but see below ...

>
> I propose two changes in the partitioning tool:
> 1) Make the size indicator an editable text box (it is currently a
> non-editable label) for setting the size manually

A spinbutton has been implemented now (only in expert mode), so you can
directly edit the size. This will be in the next drakxtools, but there
was a patch posted to cooker last night that you can use in the meantime.

See: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=mandrake-cooker&m=104596129505929&w=2

> 2) (optional) Make the slider act on a logarithmic, not linear, scale.
>

IMHO, it would be better to have MB/GB/TB (actually, MiB, GiB, TiB)
options in a drop-down box, since it is normally convenient to use such
sizes.

Regards,
Buchan

- --
|--Another happy Mandrake Club member--|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
GPG Key   http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc
1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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Re: [Cooker] RC1 install report on IBM 600X

[Pixel]

Buchan Milne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

[...]

> 1)Screenshots did not work, console errors were something like
> fb2png relocation error (some png function) in libpng

yeah, fixed

[...]

> 2)I did not see the authentication dialog (ldap,winbind etc). Did I just
> miss it (I actually wanted to test winbind :-().

fixed in cooker

> 
> 3)When I got to summary, I changed locale-related features, then hit OK
> (X was shown as not configured, but I wanted to see if it would prompt
> me). It asked me if I was sure I wanted no X, left the default No
> enabled, click next, and the installation died there.

oops... fixed!

[...]

> I logged in on the console, ran XFdrake and
> 4)My display card (Neomagic MagicMedia (laptop/notebook) was not
> recgnised though it was on 9.0. Neither was the Thinkpads 1024x768 LCD
> panel (also detected on 9.0 IIRC).

the tree in newt didn't handle default value. Fixed.

thanks!

Re: [Cooker] RC1 install report on IBM 600X

[Reinout van Schouwen]

Hi Buchan,

On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Buchan Milne wrote:

> me). It asked me if I was sure I wanted no X, left the default No
> enabled, click next, and the installation died there.

My RC1 installation also died after the summary screen, I suspected it was
because I have no network configured. Is there a bug open for this?

-- 
Reinout van SchouwenArtificial Intelligence student
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mobile phone: +31-6-44360778
GPG public key http://www.cs.vu.nl/~reinout/reinout.asc
MandrakeClub member

Re: [Cooker] RC1 issues & thoughts

[Danny Tholen]

On Wednesday 19 February 2003 15:48, Buchan Milne wrote:
> Warly wrote:
> >
> > I do not really favor the fact of using proprietary things to lead
> > user to mandrakeclub. Mandrakeclub is mainly to help Mandrakesoft
> > develop free software, and if we need to use proprietary arguments to
> > have enough money to live, maybe the fight is already lost.
>
> I am sure spare cash at Mandrakesoft would not do any harm to the
> development of free software?
>
> Instead of letting hardware makers use proprietary drivers to make linux
> more difficult to use, you can use their proprietary drivers to help
> fund free software!

True enough. All the GPL is about is creating freedom in a non-free world. 
Otherwise we would all be running *BSD :-P

Wary, I think you confuse the aim/purpose of the club with the way to get 
there. The purpose is to help development, the way to get there is by getting 
members by providing content.

Danny

Re: [Cooker] RC1 issues & thoughts

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Warly wrote:
> Buchan Milne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Forward it to decision makers.
>
> I do not really favor the fact of using proprietary things to lead
> user to mandrakeclub. Mandrakeclub is mainly to help Mandrakesoft
> develop free software, and if we need to use proprietary arguments to
> have enough money to live, maybe the fight is already lost.
>

Sure, but how are you going to convince a Windows user with a GeForce4
and a winmodem that linux is a decent OS when he cant run Tuxracer or
connect to the internet?

If you can tell him that he is almost guaranteed to have this hardware
working, and make it easy for him to do so, he may be willing to pay the
 money, and then you will have another user that knows why hardware
requiring proprietary drivers is bad, and free software is good, instead
of the other way around.

I am sure spare cash at Mandrakesoft would not do any harm to the
development of free software?

Instead of letting hardware makers use proprietary drivers to make linux
more difficult to use, you can use their proprietary drivers to help
fund free software!

But there is also no reason to put proprietary software on the
commercial CDs, and then make it difficult to install. There are other
distributions that are less free, but make installing the proprietary
software easier, and we don't want to see you guys lose out when you
deserve to win more customers.

Buchan

- --
|--Another happy Mandrake Club member--|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
GPG Key   http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc
1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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NwUUKCVCuUaXOk1u4YtndeU=
=G8oI
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: [Cooker] RC1 issues & thoughts

[Warly]

Buchan Milne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Warly wrote:
>> Serge Plüss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>>
>> I really do not know what to do about this, and moreover the final
>> decision will not be mine.
>>
>
> Has the seperate commercial CD (for software that used to be on CD3 in
> 9.0 packs) with hdlists on the download CD idea been considered? If all
> proprietary drivers (NVidia, ATI, winmodem) are on there, and it is
> chooseable from the download ISOs, it might be an easy way to sell CDs
> to those who download. Specially if
> 1)proprietary driver setup would work in install with download ISOs +
> commercial CD
> 2)proprietary driver setup is easy after install with the commercial CD.
> 3)Commercial CD/Mandrake Club is listed as an easy way to install these
> when relevant hardware is found.

Forward it to decision makers. 

I do not really favor the fact of using proprietary things to lead
user to mandrakeclub. Mandrakeclub is mainly to help Mandrakesoft
develop free software, and if we need to use proprietary arguments to
have enough money to live, maybe the fight is already lost.

-- 
Warly

Re: [Cooker] RC1 issues & thoughts

[Buchan Milne]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Warly wrote:
> Serge Plüss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>
> I really do not know what to do about this, and moreover the final
> decision will not be mine.
>

Has the seperate commercial CD (for software that used to be on CD3 in
9.0 packs) with hdlists on the download CD idea been considered? If all
proprietary drivers (NVidia, ATI, winmodem) are on there, and it is
chooseable from the download ISOs, it might be an easy way to sell CDs
to those who download. Specially if
1)proprietary driver setup would work in install with download ISOs +
commercial CD
2)proprietary driver setup is easy after install with the commercial CD.
3)Commercial CD/Mandrake Club is listed as an easy way to install these
when relevant hardware is found.

Buchan

- --
|--Another happy Mandrake Club member--|
Buchan MilneMechanical Engineer, Network Manager
Cellphone * Work+27 82 472 2231 * +27 21 8828820x121
Stellenbosch Automotive Engineering http://www.cae.co.za
GPG Key   http://ranger.dnsalias.com/bgmilne.asc
1024D/60D204A7 2919 E232 5610 A038 87B1 72D6 AC92 BA50 60D2 04A7
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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=cede
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: [Cooker] RC1 issues & thoughts

[Warly]

Serge Plüss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> At 2/18/2003 08:04 PM, you wrote:
>>Serge Plüss wrote:
>>
>>> OpenOffice doesn't have the Help files installed. Shouldn't that be
>>> part of a default OpenOffice installation instead of having to go
>>> install it manually later?
>>
>>No OpenOffice.Org-help RPM files weren't included in RC1 ISOs because
>>of lack of space.
>>
>>Bye.
>>Giuseppe.
>
> Thank you for the clarification. So now that RC1 is back to 3 CD's and
> lack of space I assume we are going to get more than the usual 3 CD's
> for the released version?

All the main will be included in powerpack, however standard pack will be
focused on new user with only desktop applications, so that they will not
be lost choosing amongst devel or servers packages in rpmdrake.

Regarding download edition, I guess that we will stuck in 3 CDs versions.
Most people only download 1 or 2 of them anyway.

I think that a 4 CDs download could be a brake for people that wanted
to test it, except if we manage to make it clear that only one CD is
enough to have a basic system, which is not even really true as most
of translation packages are on CD 3.

I really do not know what to do about this, and moreover the final
decision will not be mine.

-- 
Warly

Re: [Cooker] RC1 issues & thoughts

[Serge Plüss]

At 2/18/2003 08:04 PM, you wrote:

Serge Plüss wrote:


OpenOffice doesn't have the Help files installed. Shouldn't that be part 
of a default OpenOffice installation instead of having to go install it 
manually later?

No OpenOffice.Org-help RPM files weren't included in RC1 ISOs because
of lack of space.

Bye.
Giuseppe.


Thank you for the clarification. So now that RC1 is back to 3 CD's and lack 
of space I assume we are going to get more than the usual 3 CD's for the 
released version?

Serge 

Re: [Cooker] RC1 issues & thoughts

[Giuseppe Ghibò]

Serge Plüss wrote:


OpenOffice doesn't have the Help files installed. Shouldn't that be part 
of a default OpenOffice installation instead of having to go install it 
manually later?

No OpenOffice.Org-help RPM files weren't included in RC1 ISOs because
of lack of space.

Bye.
Giuseppe.

Re: [Cooker] (RC1) Gnome: panel; folder sharing

[Frederic Crozat]

On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 13:20:25 +0200, Reinout van Schouwen wrote:

>   This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
>   while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware
>   tools. Send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for more info.
> 
> ---559023410-1804928587-1031656825=:10456 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN;
> charset=US-ASCII
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I observed in RC1 that when I right-click on a launcher in the panel and
> click "Properties", the gnome-panel crashes. 
Fixed

> The output of .xsession-errors is attached.
> Furthermore I plead that the updated Dutch translations for gnome-panel be
> included; they can be got from
> http://gnome-nl.sourceforge.net/status_gnome2.php

Pablo ?

> The 'Sharing' tab in the properties of a desktop object shows me a message
> that only folders in my home folder can be shared. However I am looking at
> the properties of a folder in my home folder. Could this be because I
> haven't installed samba or something similar?

Update to latest version of nautilus, various fixes on "sharing" has been
done..
-- 
Frederic Crozat
MandrakeSoft

Re: [Cooker] RC1 bug: problem5: Entries in fstab deleted during upgrade

[Philip Webb]

020909 Pixel wrote:
> Aleksander Adamowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Those entries pertained to a device which was not present
>> at the time of upgrade - it's a removable hard drive.
>> You can see the original fstab here
>> 
>
>> and the upgraded fstab ihere
>> 
>.
>> the installer shouldn't touch fstab entries it doesn't intend to recreate.
> agreed. But fixing this is not that easy.
> DrakX is now able to remove entries from fstab.
> I agree it could keep those that are noauto since they can't go wrong...
> will be fixed in 9.1 :-(

the installer appears to have respected my  fstab ,
when upgrading 8.2 -> 9.0rc1, esp 'noauto' for my Windows partition.
it should keep all noauto's for safety's sake.

-- 
,,
SUPPORT ___//___,  Philip Webb : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ELECTRIC   /] [] [] [] [] []|  Centre for Urban & Community Studies
TRANSIT`-O--O---'  University of Toronto

Re: [Cooker] RC1 bug: problem4: Unsatisfied dependencies for RPMsafter a fresh install

[Aleksander Adamowski]

François Pons wrote:

>Old kaffee is installed on your system, this is a possible bug, especially if
>you have been somewhat tight on disk space of /usr.
>  
>
After the upgrade I had 2.2G free space in /usr, I think that's not tight?
See df -h executed after upgrade:

and before the upgrade, on 8.2:

Re: [Cooker] RC1 bug: problem4: Unsatisfied dependencies for RPMs after a fresh install

[François Pons]

Aleksander Adamowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On saturday, 07-Sep-2002, I've made test runs with RC1.
> 
> First, clean install of 8.2 and upgrade to 9.0 RC1.
> Second, clean install of 9.0 RC1 from scratch.

There have been fixes on RC2 about incorrect upgrade from 8.2 to 9.0RC2.

Old kaffee is installed on your system, this is a possible bug, especially if
you have been somewhat tight on disk space of /usr.

François.

Re: [Cooker] RC1 bug: problem5: Entries in fstab deleted during upgrade

[Pixel]

Aleksander Adamowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Those entries pertained to a device which was not present at the time of
> upgrade - it's a removable hard drive.
> 
> You can see the original fstab here
> 
>
> and the upgraded fstab ihere
> 
>.
> In my opinion, the installer shouldn't touch fstab entries it doesn't
> intend to recreate.

agreed. But fixing this is not that easy. DrakX is now able to remove
entries from fstab. I agree it could keep those that are noauto since
they can't go wrong...

will be fixed in 9.1 :-(

Re: [Cooker] rc1: typo on installation

[Daouda LO]

Quel Qun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Sat, 2002-09-07 at 15:21, Daouda LO wrote:
> > Richard Tango-Lowy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > 
> > > On the "Become a Mandrake Expert" screen during the installation, the
> > > word "technical" is misspelled as "tehnical."
> > 
> > fixed.
> > 
> Would you mind fix LICENSE.TXT too then?
> 
> s/occurance/occurrence
> 
> I am pretty sure it would look better like that.

done.

Thanx.

Re: [Cooker] [RC1]

[Adam Williamson]

On Sat, 2002-09-07 at 18:13, David Walser wrote:
> > We've covered this, very recently. The third CD
> > contains empty space for
> > good reason. The cheapest bought edition is also 3
> > CDs in size, and
> > contains all the software from the download edition
> > plus a small amount
> > of commercial software. To ease maintenance, they
> > use the same CD1 and
> > CD2, so the download CD3 has empty space for the
> > commercial software
> > that appears on that CD in the bought edition.
> 
> So they're *already* not using the same CD3 between
> the two, so they don't need to leave it empty.

Well, I suppose you could fill the spare space with some extra stuff,
but then you'd be left with the odd situation of some software being in
the download edition and not in the bought edition.

Anyway, the original questioner wanted to rearrange all three CDs so
they were 650MB each, which is the point I was responding to.
-- 
adamw

Re: [Cooker] rc1: typo on installation

[Daouda LO]

Richard Tango-Lowy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On the "Become a Mandrake Expert" screen during the installation, the
> word "technical" is misspelled as "tehnical."

fixed.

Re: [Cooker] [RC1]

[Murray J. Root]

On Sat, Sep 07, 2002 at 04:30:22PM -0500, allen wrote:
> 
> 
> Both my Windows and Linux machines burn fine with 700MB media.
> 
> Windows XP Home just works with no extra burning software.
> 
> The only catch is still it seems CD1 wants to be burned very slowly
> no matter what.
> 
> Any thoughts there while we're at it ?
> 

try DAO (disk-at-once) / SAO (session-at-once) modes, if you haven't already.
Fixes MANY problems people have with burning ISOs

-- 
Murray J. Root

DISCLAIMER: http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/

Mandrake on irc.openprojects.net:
  #mandrake & #mandrake-linux = help for newbies 
  #mdk-cooker = Mandrake Cooker 

Re: [Cooker] [RC1]

[allen]

On Saturday 07 September 2002 02:52 pm, Warly wrote:
> Tom Whiting <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > That still doesn't change the fact that it's bad marketing practice to
> > overpack the cd's. We're not talking about a lot of space here, D3 is
> > 550m

> Stop crying, most of people claiming they cannot burn are just using
> 650 MB blank media and not 700 MB. In most contries it is not possible
> any more to find 650 MB blank discs, and most of pressed CD makers just
> use 700 MB as default.


Yes.  I had whined once about this, and yes, in fact my stack of old media
is all 650MB and it was the biggest problem for me.

Also my old CD burner started being flaky so I said screw it and I got
a new Plextor drive.

Both my Windows and Linux machines burn fine with 700MB media.

Windows XP Home just works with no extra burning software.

The only catch is still it seems CD1 wants to be burned very slowly
no matter what.

Any thoughts there while we're at it ?

-AEF

Re: [Cooker] RC1 : once again, the same problem with i845g chipset!!!

[Bjarne Thomsen]

Yes, this is important for some of us with the new
ASUS P4B533 board. The disk IO is extremely slow
in PIO mode. I know that Alan Cox has a patch for the
standard 2.4.19 kernel, but I use the xfs file system.
I doubt that xfs is supported by the standard kernel.

So, I am stuck with the mdk kernels.
I certainly also hope that somebody at Mandrake is
working on this problem.

  -- Bjarne Thomsen
Department of Physics & Astronomy
University of Aarhus


On Fri, 2002-09-06 at 09:55, Eric Fernandez wrote:
> There is still a problem with the i845G chipset and this new 2.4.19 
> kernel, preventing hdparm to setup the UDMA5 mode for hard drive 
> (HDIO_SET_DMA failed: Operation not permitted). Moreover, there is an 
> error message at boot :
> PCI: Device 00:1f.1 not available because of resource collisions
> This issue has already been discussed on the kernel lists. A patch 
> exists by Andre Hedrick on :
> http://www.linuxdiskcert.org/
> 
> I do not want to be rude, but this is the fourth time I report this 
> problem on this list, which is serious because it cripples the 
> performance of the hard drive. Not counting I reported it on 
> mandrakeexpert too. I was told this would be corrected in the beta 2, 
> and it is still in the RC1 (even if I reported it after each new beta 
> release), and I am afraid it will be also in the final version.
> So either you do not want to correct it, and  I hope this is not the 
> case, either there are technical reasons for that, but this is strange 
> because the Slackware 8 kernel has not that problem. But at least, if 
> really you consider your beta testers as useful, please give some 
> feedback to problems that cannot be solved. Sorry if this sounds rude, 
> but I really have the feeling nobody takes care about that and I begin 
> to be fed up giving some bug reports for nothing.
> 
> Eric
> 
> 

Re: [Cooker] [RC1]

[Tom Whiting]

That still doesn't change the fact that it's bad marketing practice to 
overpack the cd's. We're not talking about a lot of space here, D3 is 550m 
(IIRC), the other 2 are incredibly up there(one is 697 I think, which still 
didn't cut it, two is just over 700).  At times I've thought about joining 
the Mandrake Club, to show support, but, well, with this practice, I'm 
inclined not to really, and I'm sure that quite a few others are just the 
same.

Let me put it like this:
If you downloaded software from a company and couldn't use it correctly , or 
couldn't use it at all, would you pay for it? Would you support it? I 
wouldn't. In fact, if I'd paid for the product, I'd demand a refund pretty 
quickly.

More importantly if X company refused to follow industry standards (in this 
case with ISO images), preventing you from  burning the cd correctly, BUT Y 
company and Z company, and even A company gave no problem with this, would 
you  use the ONE company that gave you problems? I wouldn't.

The standards (some of the best downloaded and most used versions, judging by 
the largest beta iso available)
Redhat  -- 662720 KB
Slackware -- 673248 KB
FreeBSD   -- 660128 KB
Mandrake -- 716416 KB

I have resorted to having to download my sources directly from cooker, as i've 
said in the last email, but that is my choice, and my prerogative. 
Unfortunately, that will mean MORE work for me, as it's been stated over and 
over again that Cooker isn't stable. But, what other choice am I left with? 
Sure, I could take my business elsewhere, but I rather LIKE mandrake (even 
though I have to do the extra work). 

The point I'm trying to make here is that mandrake is WELL pushing the 
industry standard for the ISO size and limitations, causing problems with  
various burners (not ALL drives support overburning, I hope you're aware). 
The response from mandrake : "we don't care".  How does this look for newbies 
who are thinking about supporting 'drake?

The way these CD's are packed is hazardous to say the least. For the ones that  
can't properly sync these cd's, there's NO solution to install software 
later, other than re-downloading sources, which creates more work on the end 
user. The CD is prompted for, and even when inserted, it's worthless, because 
the drive can't read it to begin with. HOW it's installable even is well 
beyond my power of understanding, but it is.

On Saturday 07 September 2002 06:32 am, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Sat, 2002-09-07 at 03:19, Tom Whiting wrote:
> > ask that Mandrake go to standard iso's (between 650 and 690m)?? In this
> > case, it wouldn't even involve much more than moving a few files around
> > from one iso to the next. there's 3 cd's, 2 of which are packed so full
> > they can't see straight, the third is so loosely packed that it's almost
> > a waste of 100m space there. C'mon now.
>
> *sigh*
>
> We've covered this, very recently. The third CD contains empty space for
> good reason. The cheapest bought edition is also 3 CDs in size, and
> contains all the software from the download edition plus a small amount
> of commercial software. To ease maintenance, they use the same CD1 and
> CD2, so the download CD3 has empty space for the commercial software
> that appears on that CD in the bought edition.

-- 
 
 TJW: Head tech, Dreamless Realms
 Mud: http://dreamless.wolfstream.net
 Snippets http://dreamless.wolfstream.net/
 Telnet dreamless.wolfstream.net:9275
 The OLC Pages http://olc.wolfstream.net
 

Re: [Cooker] [RC1]

[Adam Williamson]

On Sat, 2002-09-07 at 03:19, Tom Whiting wrote:

> ask that Mandrake go to standard iso's (between 650 and 690m)?? In this case, 
> it wouldn't even involve much more than moving a few files around from one 
> iso to the next. there's 3 cd's, 2 of which are packed so full they can't see 
> straight, the third is so loosely packed that it's almost a waste of 100m 
> space there. C'mon now.

*sigh*

We've covered this, very recently. The third CD contains empty space for
good reason. The cheapest bought edition is also 3 CDs in size, and
contains all the software from the download edition plus a small amount
of commercial software. To ease maintenance, they use the same CD1 and
CD2, so the download CD3 has empty space for the commercial software
that appears on that CD in the bought edition.
-- 
adamw

Re: [Cooker] [RC1]

[David Walser]

--- Jean-Michel Dault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Le sam 07/09/2002 à 00:15, Tom Whiting a écrit :
> 
> > As far as the fix, I noticed that myself, and,
> thought I tried that (maybe I 
> > didn't restart apache or somethin, either way).
> I'll go back through and try 
> > to re-upgrade. I'm assuming the php rpms in cooker
> have this fix in them 
> > then?
> 
> Yes, the rpms in cooker have this fix.
> 
> The only problem is that we use %config(noreplace),
> so upgrading will
> not fix the problem, unless you remove the package
> completely and
> reinstall it.

Or upgrade it with rpmdrake!  I did that this morning
and got the rpmsave viewer for php.ini

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Re: [Cooker] [RC1]

[Jean-Michel Dault]

Le sam 07/09/2002 à 00:15, Tom Whiting a écrit :

> As far as the fix, I noticed that myself, and, thought I tried that (maybe I 
> didn't restart apache or somethin, either way). I'll go back through and try 
> to re-upgrade. I'm assuming the php rpms in cooker have this fix in them 
> then?

Yes, the rpms in cooker have this fix.

The only problem is that we use %config(noreplace), so upgrading will
not fix the problem, unless you remove the package completely and
reinstall it.

Jean-Michel

Re: [Cooker] [RC1]

[Tom Whiting]

On Saturday 07 September 2002 03:08 am, Jean-Michel Dault wrote:
> Le ven 06/09/2002 à 23:19, Tom Whiting a écrit :
> > Well I decided to download the RC1 ISO's, and give the whole cooker thing
> > a try once more. Perhaps I should have listened to intuition and just
> > stayed away, but, like  glutton for punishment, here I am again.
>
> Don't forget that cooker is a development version, and that we have a
> cycle of betas and release candidates for the whole purpose of finding
> bugs ;-) Don't run a production system on anything but a final release.
Like I said I'm a glutton for punishment:P

As far as production and whatnot, I've had no problems running a daily use 
producton server through betas (of course, I know it's strongly advised NOT 
to do, and I'm the only one I can blame if something goes wrong). In fact, I 
find no better way to test things than through daily use and whatnot.

As far as the fix, I noticed that myself, and, thought I tried that (maybe I 
didn't restart apache or somethin, either way). I'll go back through and try 
to re-upgrade. I'm assuming the php rpms in cooker have this fix in them 
then?

Re: [Cooker] [RC1]

[Jean-Michel Dault]

Le ven 06/09/2002 à 23:19, Tom Whiting a écrit :
> Well I decided to download the RC1 ISO's, and give the whole cooker thing a 
> try once more. Perhaps I should have listened to intuition and just stayed 
> away, but, like  glutton for punishment, here I am again.

Don't forget that cooker is a development version, and that we have a
cycle of betas and release candidates for the whole purpose of finding
bugs ;-) Don't run a production system on anything but a final release.

> Next, php:
> I'm not sure if this is a php thing, a distro thing, or what, but it's 
> something I noticed:

It's a problem with the php.ini, I picked up the php.ini-dist from the
PHP source, and had to cut-and-paste back some stuff. I messed up on
that one, the include_path misses a "." dot at the beginning, so it does
not include the current directory.

It should read:
include_path = ".:/usr/lib/php/:/usr/lib/php/pear/"

It's fixed in cooker, and will be in RC2, but you're better to edit the
file by hand since it's only a minor change.

Jean-Michel

> I use php-nuke rather heavily in my sites, and in all of them with the latest
> php rpm, they refuse to load the correct includes. For some reason, the 
> modules refuse to load mainfile.php (maybe because it's not in the same 
> directory as them, maybe not). The include path is correct (it's the same one 
> I've used for php since I started using it), the system just refuses to load 
> this in the latest php rpm. When I switched to 4.1.2 (I think that's the 
> previous drake rpm), I had no problem with this, so either php has changed 
> something, the rpm is messed up, or, well, the php build itself is messed up. 
> Either way, this is something that I noticed. If it's a php change, I'd love 
> for someone to tell me how I can go about fixing this so that it will 
> actually work (without using require_once ("/mainfile.php");, because that 
> would involve a LOT more work than simply going back to an older php 
> version). I went through php.ini, but I'll be damned if I could find 
> something that points to the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
>  
>  TJW: Head tech, Dreamless Realms
>  Mud: http://dreamless.wolfstream.net
>  Snippets http://dreamless.wolfstream.net/
>  Telnet dreamless.wolfstream.net:9275
>  The OLC Pages http://olc.wolfstream.net
>  
> 
> 

Re: [Cooker] RC1 kickstart error with Dual-Head.

[Bryan Whitehead]

>
>
>>>  
>>>
After kickstarting X will not start.


>
>what exactly do you mean? even if you don't have Xinerama, it should
>start. Or is it the missing BusID that makes it go havoc?
>

It doesn't. It will just crash with signal 11... no explination. When 
the BusID is listed for both heads (they are the same on my box) the 
signal 11 goes away, but it crashes with an error becaise dri is active 
on the second head. (even when xinerama is off). So turning dri off 
makes X work


However, since it's not xinerama kdm looks like crap at the login screen 
with the second monitor black. when you login 2 desktops are created 
under KDE because it sees 2 screens, not a Xinerama... (that might be on 
purpose). Gnome has problems placing windows in the middle of the 
"desktop" so every window must be manually moved to keep them on one 
screen. :(

Is it too much to have a "if dual-head use xinerama" ?

>In auto_install, i can't default on Xinerama since it means no DRI and
>DRI is more often used than Xinerama.
>  
>
DRI will not work with Dual Head anyway. so no loss. at least with 
matrox cards (actually you have have dri work for only the first 
head, but not the second, but I don't know how todo that... :-P )

>I'm adding an option in auto_install to prefer Xinerama:
>
>$o = {
>  X => { Xinerama => 1 },
>};
>
>  
>
>>BusID must be set for both heads (they are the same value on my machine).
>>
>>
>
>this one is weird. In tests i've done it was not needed. Fredl, WYT?
>
If I don't have BusID set for both heads it will core dump with signal 11.

I can provide core files if needed... ;)

-- 
Bryan Whitehead
SysAdmin - JPL - Interferometry Systems and Technology
Phone: 818 354 2903
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [Cooker] rc1: php-xml package is missing.

[Richard Tango-Lowy]

I installed rc1 from the iso. The rpm is on CD1, but urpmi won't find
it.

Rich

On Thu, 2002-09-05 at 05:04, Daouda LO wrote:
Richard Tango-Lowy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> # urpmi php-xml
> package php-xml-4.2.2-1mdk.i586 is not found.
> unable to get source packages, aborting

You might have some problem with your mirror site.
-- 
ars Cognita   Richard Tango-Lowy
  -
  President
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  603 424-0713



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Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [Cooker] RC1: KDM after install drops to shell.

[Aleksander Adamowski]

Tarax wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I get exactly the same trouble on my Beta 4.
>Here's my /var/log/messages related lines:
>...
>Sep  4 09:35:41 station kdm[1209]: Unknown session exit code from manager process
>
This message seems to be the only one (in my case) which makes the 
difference in logs between the first X startup (where X is killed 
shortly after loading the window manager) and consequent X startups 
(which are ok). So it seems to be the indication of the problem.

>Hope it will help, please ask for more if needed.
>  
>
I were using IceWM, what Desktop/WindowManager were you using?

Re: [Cooker] RC1: Anyone successful using INND ?

[Guillaume Cottenceau]

"Jerome Whelan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Sorry for repeat, but I can't find any other info in cooker or Mandrake
> expert about INND.
> 
> Has anyone tried this?

The server team has this package in the list of its rebuilds.

-- 
Guillaume Cottenceau - http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~gc/

Re: [Cooker] RC1: KDM after install drops to shell.

[Aleksander Adamowski]

David Dreggors wrote:

>Yes, I too found this error in the logs along with other errors. Here
>they are:
>...
>  
>
Try to compare the set of log messages when X crashes with the set of 
log messages from subsequent X launches. I'm sure most of those messages 
are irrelevant and are also visible when X and KDM operate normally.

Try to supply only the messages that are characteristic of the problem.

I'm pretty sure that the message about "Unknown session exit code 
from manager process" is only output during the crashing X session.
However, those messages about unrecognized config keys from kdm seem 
harmless - during later X sessions, they are also in the logs, but X 
operates normally.

Re: [Cooker] rc1: php-xml package is missing.

[Daouda LO]

Richard Tango-Lowy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> # urpmi php-xml
> package php-xml-4.2.2-1mdk.i586 is not found.
> unable to get source packages, aborting

You might have some problem with your mirror site.

Re: [Cooker] RC1 kickstart error with Dual-Head.

[Pixel]

Bryan Whitehead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> After kickstarting X will not start. XF86Config-4.old is the kickstart
> generated config file that does not work. XF86Config-4 is the config file I
> pulled from a mandrake 8.1 box.

there are too many difference between the 2 files for me to know what
exactly is wrong.

could start from the kickstart generated file and make it work, and
send this to me? please :)

Re: [Cooker] RC1 misc problems

[David Walser]

--- Gerard Patel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 2) still problems with menus when installing
> packages; with Kde, when using
> the Mandrake tool to install packages, after
> installing a bunch of packages
> at the same time, usually the menus are strangely
> changed; usually there are
> much less options. It seems that when I install a
> package at a time, this
> problem never occurs. It's easily fixed - it seems
> that other people have 
> their method, I use the menu manager in MCC, goto
> system menu/save and
> everything comes back normally. Still a major
> problem IMHO.

It's not really a problem.  What's happening is it's
running update-menus, which wipes out your KDE menu,
then rebuilds it.  You shouldn't go look at your KDE
menu while it's doing this, because it's wiped out. 
Also, KDE caches your menu for like 60 seconds, so if
you keep looking at it, it's never gonna come back
(even though it is back).  So either don't look at it,
or if you do, don't look at it for over a minute.

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