Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/11/99 2:08:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Potemkin Village was a bogus stage prop erected by the Czar to show visiting bleeding heart liberal West Europeans that the local peasants had it made. > We'd have to consider A LOT of other evidence along with > their personal feelings The slave narratives are not about feelings. They are matter of fact in tone and the descriptions of conditions are well buttressed by related events. It is all but mind numbingly horrific to realize how these folks lived. It's true that they were in their teens but in those conditions, work began in earnest at age 7 or 8. The slaves were adults in their teen years. Actually, even when i lived through the adolescent years during the 1940s, there were no teen-agers. In white America, you were simply not a child and not yet an adult, ambiguous to say the least. The term and concept of teen-ager didn't come along until the late 1950s. You were expected to be a fully functioning and responsible adult by age 18 during the 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s. Perhaps some other old codgers can comment on this transition. The narratives i have read were lengthy excerpts in the book Bull Whip Days, a work that should be in every American's library. I appreciate our discussion because the institution of slavery in the US is the most proscribed subject in America. It is the crazy aunt in the attic. Uncle Sam is sort of like Lazrus. The Civil War called us out from the grave and the Civil Rights movement removed the wrap but we still need to hose ourselves down with the cleansing truth. > Racism has not decreased as a result of "civil rights" laws. Well, things are a bit more complicated than that. What you say has a morsel of truth. However, the CR laws were necessary to firmly establish the rights, whether of voting, attending public schools or whatever. It is necessary to see the entire flow of the civil rights movement, seemingly ending when LBJ signed the CR Bill of 1964. Of course the CR movement was a sort of add-on to the Civil War. The initial shot of phase 2 being the Rosa Parks thing. It included Medgar Evers at the University of Alabama (There was another fellow who preceded Evers except he was at Ole Miss. The kindly white students beat him so bad, he was permanently injured and died prematurely with complication stemming from that time.) , and other practicing integrationist such as the Little Rock school children and the freedom bus riders who registered people and crossed into white areas of bus stations and sat in at cafes and lunch counters and so on. Blood was necessary, it was shed and people went to jail. The Southern blacks simply essentially said, "We're not taking this any longer. From now on we will verbally correct you at the time of the infraction and by our presence and boycotts and demonstrations and by law suit until you treat us with dignity just as you do others." Truly a great day in America! In other words, the signing of the civil rights bill was like the formal signing of a peace treaty. The Southerners did not have to like blacks but they had to obey the law or from then on it would be the white overseers who had to explain and possibly go to jail when blacks were denied voting rights or the use of public rest rooms. Incidentally, if you wish to get an earful of how it was like for a Negro to travel through the South during the 1950s, read Black Like Me. I certainly was not surprised by the discourtesy of the bus drivers and offensive treatment at various business establishments. What took me back was how difficult it was for a black person to simply find a john they were allowed to use and the resultant necessary stratagems. Jerry DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation
-Caveat Lector- Gerald Harp wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > In a message dated 1/11/99 2:08:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Potemkin Village was a bogus stage prop erected by the Czar to show visiting > bleeding heart liberal West Europeans that the local peasants had it made. Well, one or the other of those photos appears to have had that objective. As for the other evidence, Camp Ford's prisoners had about the same "death rate" as its guards. Although prison life is no fun, it appears from evidence of the prisoners that they were better off there than in combat. It is well documented that the prisoners were allowed to manufacture what we might call "handi-crafts" for sale in the community, and that food vendors frequently visited the camp allowing prisoners to purchase additional rations. It is also well documented that the commander, Col RTP Allen purchased additional food for the prisoners, paying for it from his own salary. Allen's wife as known as "Ma Allen" because of her personal interest in the emotional and physical health of the prisoners (as shown my letters from the men). Finally, while Allen was a stern disciplinarian with regard to his own troops, they complained bitterly that he treated the prisoners better than he treated them, finally resulting in a politically-inspired transfer. > > We'd have to consider A LOT of other evidence along with > > their personal feelings > > The slave narratives are not about feelings. They are matter of fact in tone > and the descriptions of conditions are well buttressed by related events. But, they were non-the-less children at the time. > It is all but mind numbingly horrific to realize how these folks lived. I think you are exaggerating... European visitors to the south generally commented that the slaves were better off than other working class peasants in most countries, and while plantation life certainly was difficult, it was so for most of the slave owners, too, especially those who had three or four slaves, and who worked side by side with the slaves. I have two documents from a widely-read and respected magazine printed for plantation/farm managers which describe in details how to best run an operation where the laborers were slaves. Unless this was a gigantic conspiracy (notice the neat tie-in?) these were well-meant advice offered to enhance efficiency and productivity. I would be glad to email these articles to you. These were both printed in 1851, in June and October issues of "DeBow's Review." > It's true that they were in their teens but in those conditions, work began in > earnest at age 7 or 8. Not according to my research... Puberty was about the time of starting to ork in earnest. > The slaves were adults in their teen years. Actually, even when i lived through > the adolescent years during the 1940s, there were no teen-agers. In white > America, you were simply not a child and not yet an adult, ambiguous to say the > least. I think I was alive, and residing in "white America" during the 1940's. As I recall, there were teen-agers all over the place, and there was no ambiguity. The boys were expected to get summer jobs after turning twelve, but they were rarely ever "real full-time jobs," and were more along the lines of mowing lawns (although my jobs were more in harvesting hay, etc). There wasn't any threat regarding going to work then, but parents more or less just stopped providing "spending money," so if a teenager wanted some pocket cash, he had to work for it some kind of way. > The term and concept of teen-ager didn't come along until the late 1950s. What country was this in? I remember WWII, and my oder cousins were teenagers at that time, Frank Sinatra fans, etc... > You were expected to be a fully functioning and responsible adult by age 18 > during the 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s. That is true, but 18 is a far cry from eight. I suggest that anyone who doesn't make a distinction between and 8 year old and an 18 year old is foolish in all cases, and incarcerated in some. > The narratives i have read were lengthy excerpts in the book Bull Whip Days, a > work that should be in every American's library. And I suppose, from the title of the book, you presume that the author is presenting a well-balanced view of the Narratives? What does "Bull Whip Days" refer to? I have read lengthy exerpts from the Narratives which I wager were NOT included in the book you read. > The Civil War called us out from the grave and the Civil Rights movement removed > the wrap but we still need to hose ourselves down with the cleansing truth. I suggest that you don't overlook portions of the truth because they tend to conflict with what you already believe. > > Racism has not decreased as a result of "civil rights" laws. > > Well, things are a bit more complicated than that. What you say has a morsel > of truth. Its more than a morsel... It is 100% true. There has been no decline in "ra
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation
-Caveat Lector- > The slave narratives are not about feelings. They are matter of fact in tone > and the descriptions of conditions are well buttressed by related events. It > is all but mind numbingly horrific to realize how these folks lived. It's > true that they were in their teens but in those conditions, work began in > earnest at age 7 or 8. My grandpa died when my dad was 5...he started selling papers then..there were thirteen in the house...children and they all contrubuted...a brother of mine started at 9and guess what they weren't slaves nor were they black. > The slaves were adults in their teen years. Actually, > even when i lived through the adolescent years during the 1940s, > You were expected to be a fully functioning > and responsible adult by age 18 during the 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s. No earlier right after they graduated from eighth grade.. Carlene DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation
-Caveat Lector- Hawk wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > Gerald Harp wrote: > > > Yes, there are exceptions, such as owner buying a comely mulatto girl who could > > sew after a fashion and taking her back home, installing her in a bedroom with a > > a needle and thread and announcing to the Mrs. that they had a new seamstress. > > I'm sure it happened... And it happens to this day. But was it the "norm?" > Hardly, considering the fact that in southern states of the time, the number of > mulatto births (a good indication of the amount of mixed-race sexual intercourse) > was -- as an example one mulatto for each 33 blacks (S. Carolina), while in Ohio > there were 14,000 mulattoes to 11,000 blacks. Seems as though the white men in > Ohio were somewhat greater attracted to black females than were the while men in > the South. Not necessarily. It seems to me more likely that the fathers who impregnated their slaves would free their progeny. So their would be a higher percentage of mulatos among the freed slaves for that reason and not because of race mixing in the north. best wishes, Howard Davis ps I once visited a friend of mine who was living in a house about 30 miles north of Atlanta which had been built around 1830. Adjoining and to its rear was another house approximately equal in size and construction. There were small doors like dumb waiter doors between the houses for passing food. The rear house was the slave quarters. It really was not much different from the other. My friend noticed some writing on the wall apparently under a removed self. It seemed to be in two languages. The second said something like: "An end to this war and and end to slavery". DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation
-Caveat Lector- An apologist for slavery and . . . You may think what you want, but do you realize your rationalzations are inhumane. Your contention that owning people, because of interpretations of scripture, is a valid human endeavour is ill- founded. Slavery is wrong, is known by the fact of the actions of slavery, not by any vaunted scribblings. Lord, have mercy, the sufferrings from arrogannce saited by piety. A side-kick , someone to kick around. Embarrased? Shucks, wonder what your side-kick had to endure. The social rules were racist. Valid in the eyes of Jesus aka The Christ? Like I said, I was raised in the South, home of gentlemen/women and racism fostered by an illegal social and political system. The seperate facilities has stopped, why? Because it was wrong. Ladies couldn't even vote untill this century. Slavery comes in many forms. We shall overcome. You write me personally and complain about this post and this person and what are the rules. Yeah, there are rules and rule makers and rulers and yardsticks and junk-yard dogs. I ain'y yo mamma and if ya want a cop call 911. Actions begat reactions and so forth. Chill . . . Om K - In a message dated 1/11/99 1:37:09 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >Although prison life is no fun, it appears from evidence of the prisoners >that they were better off there than in combat. >As I mentioned, I grew up in the South... and have lived in the South most of my >life. When I was in my late teens, I worked summers in the family business, which >required some travel between towns in the South. I had a black "side-kick" or >co-worker. It always embarrased me when he could not eat in the regular dining >room of road-side restaurants (which have developed into truck stops). There were >many reasons for such "social rules," some of which were valid, and others >weren't. Most of the time I ate outside, or in the "back room" with Raymond (my >co-worker). My family was in the theatre business, and at that time blacks were >required to sit in the balcony... there were reasons for that, too, which I will >tell you about by private email if you desire - DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation
-Caveat Lector- I began training at three and four for picking beans and berries. By five, I operated a tractor pulling sleds in the fields. By Six, I could cut a 400 acre field of corn stalks in two days operating from sun to sun. I began training in the blacksmith shop at seven, making barrel staves and rings. If you planned on eating, you had to work. Jim norman "Carlene M. Wojahn" wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > > The slave narratives are not about feelings. They are matter of fact in tone > > and the descriptions of conditions are well buttressed by related events. It > > is all but mind numbingly horrific to realize how these folks lived. It's > > true that they were in their teens but in those conditions, work began in > > earnest at age 7 or 8. > > My grandpa died when my dad was 5...he started selling papers then..there were > thirteen in the house...children and they all contrubuted...a brother of mine > started at 9and guess what they weren't slaves nor were they black. > > > The slaves were adults in their teen years. Actually, > > even when i lived through the adolescent years during the 1940s, > > > You were expected to be a fully functioning > > and responsible adult by age 18 during the 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s. > > No earlier right after they graduated from eighth grade.. > > Carlene > > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > == > CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic > screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters > and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright > frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects > spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL > gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; > be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and > nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > > Archives Available at: > http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Om DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > An apologist for slavery and . . . You may think what you want, but do you > realize your rationalzations are inhumane. No I don't... As a matter of fact, if you could read (and understand what you read), I have repeatedly said that I do not advocate the enslavement of anyone. I do not personally approve of slavery. Seems you would finally get that through your head. > Your contention that owning people, because of interpretations of scripture, is > a valid human endeavour is ill-founded. A "valid endeaver?" Of course its a "valid endeavor." Murder is a "valid endeavor," if it accomplishes the perpetrator's goal. That doesn't make it a "desirable" activity in which to engage one's self. > Slavery is wrong, is known by the fact of the actions of slavery, not by any > vaunted scribblings. Is it "wrong" because YOU say its wrong? Or because an amendment to the Constitution says its wrong? What makes an action "wrong?" Your bemuddled "logic" -- if such it could be called -- is "X (and action) is wrong because the action of X is wrong." I fear you'll have to improve before your "argument" is convincing to anyone who can string a group of words together and form a logical statement. > Lord, have mercy, the sufferrings from arrogannce saited by piety. Funny... I was just thinking the same thing... > A side-kick , someone to kick around. No... Someone to "kick around with." A "pard," a "buddy." Or if you prefer the definition from the American Heritage Dictionary: side·kick (sºdk¹k) n. Slang. A close companion or comrade. Hardly, "someone to kick around." Your own arrogance and accusatory manner is amazing! > Embarrased? Shucks, wonder what your side-kick had to endure. Probably embarassment... Frustration... Anger... Resentment.. At least that's what I would have felt.. However, I was no more at fault in that situation than YOU were (assuming you were even alive at the time, and considering the rather juvenile nature of your posts, I have my doubts). > The social rules were racist. Of course they were Do you think anyone is denying that? Would you say that there are NO racist tendencies in yourself? Or that racism is to this day as rampant or more than ever before? Or that minorities are not themselves racists? > Valid in the eyes of Jesus aka The Christ? Why should it matter? You put no stock in the Bible anyway, and I have been accused of "religious pandering." But then, I have noted a "slight" double standard from you in other issues too. If you wish to 'ban' the use of the bible in determining whether something is "right" or "wrong," then don't use it in YOUR arguments. If you do want to use it, you're in a heap o' trouble, boy and I look forward to the debate. > Like I said, I was raised in the South, home of gentlemen/women and racism > fostered by an illegal social and political system. Again... You seem to confuse "what you believe" with what is actually true. I think, if you are speaking of some time prior to the 1960's, racism (or discrimination based on race) was LEGAL. If not, cite your references. Documentation is important. > The seperate facilities has stopped, why? Because it was wrong. No... because it was declared illegal, and some pretty hefty fines and penalties might be slapped on those who insisted on continuing the practice. > Ladies couldn't even vote untill this century. I'm not so sure its a good idea now... But that's another topic altogether. > Slavery comes in many forms. We shall overcome. Oh Are YOU a slave? If so, I guess you DO have a unique perspective from which to speak.. Pardon me... I didn't realize I was talking to one with personal experience in that "peculiar institution." > You write me personally and complain about this post and this person and what > are the rules. I did that rather than "clutter up" the list... I thought it was a considerate thing to do. If you'd rather, I can point out the obvious infractions of others (regarding the so-called "rules") in the clear. > Yeah, there are rules and rule makers and rulers and yardsticks and junk-yard > dogs. I agree I have personally witnessed actual critters such as you mention... However, I don't see the connection with the discussion at hand. Its like saying "Yeah, there is earth, wind, fire, and water." Not a particularly enlightened argument. > I ain'y yo mamma and if ya want a cop call 911. Is that somewhere in the rules? Maybe I have a truncated list... > Actions begat reactions and so forth. I've noticed... but I wasn't the first.. I read about this fellow named "Newton.."... ever heard of him? > Chill . . . I'm cool! I'm cool... > Om > K Might I ask a personal question? What does "Om" mean? Is it something like "YOS" for "your obedient servant?" I've been meaning to ask you. Hawk DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/12/99 7:24:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > >> -Caveat Lector- > >> > >> An apologist for slavery and . . . You may think what you want, but do you > >> realize your rationalzations are inhumane. > > > >No I don't... As a matter of fact, if you could read (and understand what you > >read), I have repeatedly said that I do not advocate the enslavement of anyone. >I > >do not personally approve of slavery. Seems you would finally get that through > >your head. Gee, Hawk, thanks for your condescending attitude. I am sure you are ready to listen. 1. Oh, you don't PERSONALLY approve of slavery. Well, I guess that makes you a good person(PC) or do you have someother reason for you letting us know that you don't PERSONALLY approve of slavery. Have you ever heard of the word hypocrite? hyp-o-crite (h p2õ-kr t1) n. A person given to hypocrisy. hy-poc-ri-sy (h -pÄk2r -sT) n., pl. hy-poc-ri-sies. 1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness. 2. An act or instance of such falseness. from: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9901a&L=ctrl&D=0&O=A& P=67326">CTRL archives -- January 1999, week 1 (#625) Hawk sez: I do not say that "owning a human being is a humane idea" -- but neither is it an inhumane act. - in-hu-mane ( n1hyá-mEn2) adj. Lacking pity or compassion. in-hu-man-i-ty ( n1hyá-man2 -tT) n., 1. Lack of pity or compassion. 2. An inhuman or cruel act. a-pol-o-gy (õ-pÄl2õ-jT) n., 2.a. A formal justification or defense. b. An explanation or excuse. a-pol-gist n. 1. One who argues in defense of any person or cause. slav-er-y (slE2võ-rT, slEv2rT) n., 1. The state of one bound in servitude as the property of a slaveholder or household. 2.a. The practice of owning slaves. b. A mode of production in which slaves constitute the principal work force. ra-tion-al-i-za-tion (rash1õ-nõ-l -zE2shõn) n. 2. An instance of rationalizing. ra-tion-al-ize (rash2õ-nõ-lhz1) v. r 3. To devise self-satisfying but incorrect reasons for (one's behavior). from: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9901a&L=ctrl&D=0&O=A& P=67326">CTRL archives -- January 1999, week 1 (#625) Hawk sez: I personally do not wish to own a slave nor be a slave. - Gosh, again, how noble. Gee, you wouldn't wish to be a slave. But by your vaunted interpretation of scribblings you give PROVIDENTIAL AUTHORITY to the actions of slaveholding. Which I will stand-up again, and again and say -you are wrong. === > > >> Your contention that owning people, because of interpretations of scripture, >is > >> a valid human endeavour is ill-founded. > > > >A "valid endeaver?" Of course its a "valid endeavor." Murder is a "valid > >endeavor," if it accomplishes the perpetrator's goal. That doesn't make it a > >"desirable" activity in which to engage one's self. So you say that owning humans is a "valid endevor" val-id (val2 d) adj. 1. Well grounded; just. 2. Producing the desired results; efficacious. 3. Having legal force; effective or binding. 4. Logic. a. Containing premises from which the conclusion may logically be derived. b. Correctly inferred or deduced from a premise. 5. Archaic. Of sound health; robust. en-deav-or (Rn-dRv2õr) n. 1. A conscientious or concerted effort toward an end; an earnest attempt. 2. Purposeful or industrious activity; enterprise. ear-nest1 (ûr2n st) adj. 1. Marked by or showing deep sincerity or seriousness. 2. Of an important or weighty nature; grave. Again, you are a hypocrite. In "desirable' to you mean worth doing, advisable or is it wrong to do? == > > >> Slavery is wrong, is known by the fact of the actions of slavery, not by any > >> vaunted scribblings. > > > >Is it "wrong" because YOU say its wrong? Or because an amendment to the > >Constitution says its wrong? What makes an action "wrong?" Your bemuddled > >"logic" -- if such it could be called -- is "X (and action) is wrong because the > >action of X is wrong." I fear you'll have to improve before your "argument" is > >convincing to anyone who can string a group of words together and form a logical > >statement. > == Thanks again for mocking my syntax. I am so sorry that you have a problem understanding it. I was paraprhasing some wise words from a wise man. 'By the fruits, ye shall know the tree" Slavery is wrong from the actions of slavery. Simple. Now, some words from "Hypocrite hawk" from: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9901a&L=ctrl&D=0&O=A& P=67326">CTRL archives -- January 1999, week 1 (#625) That is merely your opinion, and it does not comport with the Bible. You are welcome to it, and you are certainly not alone in that opinion. But I base my criteria on "stronger stuff" than pers
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- > An apologist for slavery and . . . You may think what you want, but do you > realize your rationalzations are inhumane. """No...I don't see him apologizing...and like I noted in a previous post...there were black slave owers and there were white slaves as well...but that tends to be over looked...look at my other post for references in regard to this. h > do not personally approve of slavery. Seems you would finally get that > through your head. I don't either, and I have the sense to realize that was acceptable than is not necessarily so nowand things that are acceptable now will not be acceptable in the future. You have different societies and different mores...will find a reference if you really need oneand you can not justify or condemn a society..the past on the mores and beliefs of the now. > Have you ever heard of the word hypocrite? """Sorry to get in the middle here..but this post...oh well...did you ever hear of the term.never mind...not appropriate on the list. > > > I do not say that "owning a human being is a humane idea" -- but neither is it > an inhumane act. > personally do not wish to own a slave nor be a slave. > - > > Gosh, again, how noble. Gee, you wouldn't wish to be a slave. >>>Didn't this gentleman also say he did not want to own slaves as well, > Which I will stand-up again, and again and say -you are wrong. > I am sorry don't understand what he is wrong about. > === > >Blacks are deprived ? > http://memory.loc.gov/ > >gi-bin/query/D?wpa:8:./temp/~ammem_DgOA::@@@mdb=cwar,fsaall,vv,detr,wtc,dag,gottscho,horyd,nfor,papr,wpa,aap,bdsbib,nawbib,consrvbib,varstg,presp,cowellbib,calbkbib,suffrg,pan,gmd,mcc,toddbib,mgw,hlaw,bbpix,award97,ncr,musdibib,alad,lhbumbib,hh,bbcards,mussm,rbpebib,raelbib > > http://e.usia.gov/education/amstudy/hislink.htm Do you really know what there options were ? If they stayed in Africa what do you think would of happened ?? Many times being a slave was safer than other alternatives at the time. Look at the following article and see what is all providedI know your mind is set one way, but look at the other side of the coin. Here is an article you might enjoy...and it is documentated. """Atlanta Journal and Constitution, Thurs. Nov. 26, 1998 > SecD-14 > > "Slaves' descendants honor slavemaster of ancestors" "Defying political correctness, decendants of Panola County, Texas, slaves are dedicating a historical marker to the slaveholder who brought their families here. .The marker will be dedicated to Spearman "Major" Holland who brought slaves to East Texas in the 1840's. > "Holland Quarters, a black community four miles north of Carthage in Panola> County on land once used as a plantation. has been home to generations descended> from Holland's slaves. . Research has shown that Holland was know for generosity toward his slaves...> According to Barbara Jefferson-Bonner, a Panola County historian. She stated> "He was a great guy. He cared for his slaves in a unique kind of way. When> Spearman left here, hye left his thousands of acres to slaves, who were ancestors of mine." .During the Civil War, Spearman served as a captain in the Texas State> Troops, 4th Brigade. After the war he moved away and left the land to the > slaves...His brother was known to have bought slaves and then free them. > "" One of these freed slaves would go on to be awarded the Medal of Honor while> serving in the Union army during the war.. > >"" (No political comment is intended here, just to share an interesting story.) > ""I can find other such stories...it was also prefered for one to be a slave than to be transported back to Liberiawant documentation on that I can get it. ""By the way, transporting the blacks back to Africa was a plan of Lincolns. ""and please note my other post, the north, many northern states had laws against black residency in the state. > >> Your contention that owning people, because of interpretations of > scripture, a valid human endeavour is ill-founded. "Is it ??? I don't know...is this opinion or fact...everything I have said so far I can documentate, can you documentate that this is ill-founded. > > Again, you are a hypocrite. In "desirable' to you mean worth doing, advisable > or is it wrong to do? > "Huh ? > == > > > > > >> Slavery is wrong, is known by the fact of the actions of slavery, not by > any vaunted scribblings. "what are the..what were the options at that time...again there were black slave holders and white slaves. Their were slaves in the north, but they weren't freed with the Emancipation Proclamation, none were. > > I was paraprhasing some wise words from a wise man. 'By the fruits, ye shall > know the tree" > > Slavery is wrong from the actions of slavery. Simple. Huh ? Is it, was it at the time tha
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector-
Okay, I'll bite. Biblical documentation (courtesy NIV) at
Matt 6 (esp 6:5) {long, I won't reproduce -- especially because of the
written word}
John 8:31ff: "To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold
to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth,
and the truth will set you free." They answered him, "We are Abraham's
descendants and have never been slaves on anyone. How can you say we shall
be set free?"
Acts 7:6ff: "G*d spoke to him {Abraham} in this way: 'Your descendants
will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and
mistreated four hundred years. But I will punish the nation they serve as
slaves,' G*d said, 'and afterward they will come out of that country and
worship me in this place.' Then he gave Abraham the convenant of
circumcision. And Abraham became the father of Isaac and circumcised him
eight days after his birth. Later Isaac became the father of Jacob, and
Jacob became the father of the twelve patriarchs."
I stumbled onto the above after looking through my Strong's Exhaustive
Concordance of the Bible. There's not a bunch on "slave" or "slavery" but
more on "bondage" which translates back to "slavery" in the NIV. The
Matthew part was what I originally intended to offer but the rest just came
along.
I really lean more toward Celtic Buddhism so these forays into Xtian
theological texts is rather illuminating.
A<>E<>R
The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking
new landscapes but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
--
: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: Subject: Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
: Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 12:16 PM
:
: -Caveat Lector-
:
: In a message dated 1/12/99 7:24:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
:
: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
: >
: >> -Caveat Lector-
: >
: >> An apologist for slavery and . . . You may think what you want, but do
you
: >> realize your rationalzations are inhumane.
: >
: >No I don't... As a matter of fact, if you could read (and understand
what you
: >
: >read), I have repeatedly said that I do not advocate the enslavement of
: anyone.
: >I
: >
: >do not personally approve of slavery. Seems you would finally get that
: through
: >
: >your head.
:
:
: Gee, Hawk, thanks for your condescending attitude. I am sure you are
ready to
: listen.
:
: 1. Oh, you don't PERSONALLY approve of slavery. Well, I guess that makes
you a
: good person(PC) or do you have someother reason for you letting us know
that
: you don't PERSONALLY approve of slavery.
:
: Have you ever heard of the word hypocrite?
:
: hyp-o-crite (h p2õ-kr t1) n.
: A person given to hypocrisy.
:
: hy-poc-ri-sy (h -pÄk2r -sT) n., pl. hy-poc-ri-sies.
: 1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does
not
: hold or possess; falseness.
: 2. An act or instance of such falseness.
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector-
Alamaine Ratliff wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Okay, I'll bite. Biblical documentation (courtesy NIV) at
>
> Matt 6 (esp 6:5) {long, I won't reproduce -- especially because of the
> written word}
Don't see any connection to slavery.
> John 8:31ff: "To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold
> to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth,
> and the truth will set you free." They answered him, "We are Abraham's
> descendants and have never been slaves on anyone. How can you say we shall
> be set free?"
Apparently these fellows had never been slaves, and said so.. They also apparently
"missed the point," that Jesus wasn't talking about literal/physical slavery..
which you also seem to have missed.
> Acts 7:6ff: "G*d spoke to him {Abraham} in this way: 'Your descendants
> will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and
> mistreated four hundred years. But I will punish the nation they serve as
> slaves,' G*d said, 'and afterward they will come out of that country and
> worship me in this place.' Then he gave Abraham the convenant of
> circumcision. And Abraham became the father of Isaac and circumcised him
> eight days after his birth. Later Isaac became the father of Jacob, and
> Jacob became the father of the twelve patriarchs."
>
> I stumbled onto the above after looking through my Strong's Exhaustive
> Concordance of the Bible. There's not a bunch on "slave" or "slavery" but
> more on "bondage" which translates back to "slavery" in the NIV. The
> Matthew part was what I originally intended to offer but the rest just came
> along.
But, the passage you quoted said nothing about it being "evil" or "wrong" for the
Hebrews to be held in bondage. It merely said that they WOULD be, and that Egypt
WOULD be punished, which it was... But the punishment was not because the Hebrews
were slaves there, rather because Pharoah did not release them when God told him
to... It was his (1) unreasonable harshness to the Hebrew slaves, and (2) his
refusal to let them go when directed -- Read it in context and this becomes
clear. There was a time (read the part about Joseph) when God BLESSED Egypt
because of Pharaoh's relationship (master over slave) with Joseph.
> I really lean more toward Celtic Buddhism so these forays into Xtian
> theological texts is rather illuminating.
That's good... Since some of these folks are offended by biblical texts, I would
be very glad to discuss the above passages, or any others, with you... Could be my
"take" on them is 100% wrong... but maybe I am not wrong at all. You be the
judge, after having an opportunity to study the passages using proper
hermaneutical procedures. In looking through your concordance, don't look for
"slave" but rather "servant" which IS a slave unless it says "hired" servant.
Hawk
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector-
Howdy Hypocrite,
Whatsa matter, ain't got time to reply to my queries?
So, pray tell, what are the "proper hermaneutical procedures"? Are they
consistent?
Hypocrite Hawk sez:
"But, the passage you quoted said nothing about it being "evil" or "wrong" for
the
Hebrews to be held in bondage."
So let, us review, unless Hypocrite Hawk, can determine through "proper
hermaneutical procedures" if the Bible says an action is 'evil' or 'wrong'.
Do you have a list of "evil" or "wrong", oh, old, wise one?
I am not offended by Biblical texts, but by hypocrites that abuse them.
Oh, Hypocrite, you didn't answer my query about your intel secret ops? Cat got
your tongue?
What a . . . chauvanistic goober.
Om
k
In a message dated 1/13/99 10:47:36 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>-Caveat Lector-
>
>Alamaine Ratliff wrote:
>
>> -Caveat Lector-
>>
>> Okay, I'll bite. Biblical documentation (courtesy NIV) at
>>
>> Matt 6 (esp 6:5) {long, I won't reproduce -- especially because of the
>> written word}
>
>Don't see any connection to slavery.
>
>> John 8:31ff: "To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold
>> to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth,
>> and the truth will set you free." They answered him, "We are Abraham's
>> descendants and have never been slaves on anyone. How can you say we shall
>> be set free?"
>
>Apparently these fellows had never been slaves, and said so.. They also
apparently
>"missed the point," that Jesus wasn't talking about literal/physical
slavery..
>which you also seem to have missed.
>
>> Acts 7:6ff: "G*d spoke to him {Abraham} in this way: 'Your descendants
>> will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and
>> mistreated four hundred years. But I will punish the nation they serve as
>> slaves,' G*d said, 'and afterward they will come out of that country and
>> worship me in this place.' Then he gave Abraham the convenant of
>> circumcision. And Abraham became the father of Isaac and circumcised him
>> eight days after his birth. Later Isaac became the father of Jacob, and
>> Jacob became the father of the twelve patriarchs."
>>
>> I stumbled onto the above after looking through my Strong's Exhaustive
>> Concordance of the Bible. There's not a bunch on "slave" or "slavery" but
>> more on "bondage" which translates back to "slavery" in the NIV. The
>> Matthew part was what I originally intended to offer but the rest just came
>> along.
>
>But, the passage you quoted said nothing about it being "evil" or "wrong" for
the
>Hebrews to be held in bondage. It merely said that they WOULD be, and that
Egypt
>WOULD be punished, which it was... But the punishment was not because the
Hebrews
>were slaves there, rather because Pharoah did not release them when God told
him
>to... It was his (1) unreasonable harshness to the Hebrew slaves, and (2) his
>refusal to let them go when directed -- Read it in context and this becomes
>clear. There was a time (read the part about Joseph) when God BLESSED Egypt
>because of Pharaoh's relationship (master over slave) with Joseph.
>
>> I really lean more toward Celtic Buddhism so these forays into Xtian
>> theological texts is rather illuminating.
>
>That's good... Since some of these folks are offended by biblical texts, I
would
>be very glad to discuss the above passages, or any others, with you... Could
be
>my
>"take" on them is 100% wrong... but maybe I am not wrong at all. You be the
>judge, after having an opportunity to study the passages using proper
>hermaneutical procedures. In looking through your concordance, don't look
for
>"slave" but rather "servant" which IS a slave unless it says "hired" servant.
>
>Hawk
-
Aloha, He'Ping,
Om, Shalom, Salaam.
Em Hotep, Peace Be,
Omnia Bona Bonis,
All My Relations.
Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
Amen.
Roads End
Kris
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector-
I don't believe this sh++ ! It is so juvenile, I don't know much about this
person, but no one should be badgered like this, is this acceptable on this list
? If so I suppose I could do this toowhere are you coming from...take it
private.(the only reason my private post got sent to the list, is because I was an
oversight, received some bad news and my concentration was not there)
But this is a deliberate attempt to disrupt this list, which I have been accused
of.
Carlene
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> Howdy Hypocrite,
>
> Whatsa matter, ain't got time to reply to my queries?
>
> So, pray tell, what are the "proper hermaneutical procedures"? Are they
> consistent?
>
> Hypocrite Hawk sez:
>
> "But, the passage you quoted said nothing about it being "evil" or "wrong" for
> the
> Hebrews to be held in bondage."
>
> So let, us review, unless Hypocrite Hawk, can determine through "proper
> hermaneutical procedures" if the Bible says an action is 'evil' or 'wrong'.
>
> Do you have a list of "evil" or "wrong", oh, old, wise one?
>
> I am not offended by Biblical texts, but by hypocrites that abuse them.
>
> Oh, Hypocrite, you didn't answer my query about your intel secret ops? Cat got
> your tongue?
>
> What a . . . chauvanistic goober.
>
> Om
> k
>
> In a message dated 1/13/99 10:47:36 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >-Caveat Lector-
> >
> >Alamaine Ratliff wrote:
> >
> >> -Caveat Lector-
> >>
> >> Okay, I'll bite. Biblical documentation (courtesy NIV) at
> >>
> >> Matt 6 (esp 6:5) {long, I won't reproduce -- especially because of the
> >> written word}
> >
> >Don't see any connection to slavery.
> >
> >> John 8:31ff: "To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold
> >> to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth,
> >> and the truth will set you free." They answered him, "We are Abraham's
> >> descendants and have never been slaves on anyone. How can you say we shall
> >> be set free?"
> >
> >Apparently these fellows had never been slaves, and said so.. They also
> apparently
> >"missed the point," that Jesus wasn't talking about literal/physical
> slavery..
> >which you also seem to have missed.
> >
> >> Acts 7:6ff: "G*d spoke to him {Abraham} in this way: 'Your descendants
> >> will be strangers in a country not their own, and they will be enslaved and
> >> mistreated four hundred years. But I will punish the nation they serve as
> >> slaves,' G*d said, 'and afterward they will come out of that country and
> >> worship me in this place.' Then he gave Abraham the convenant of
> >> circumcision. And Abraham became the father of Isaac and circumcised him
> >> eight days after his birth. Later Isaac became the father of Jacob, and
> >> Jacob became the father of the twelve patriarchs."
> >>
> >> I stumbled onto the above after looking through my Strong's Exhaustive
> >> Concordance of the Bible. There's not a bunch on "slave" or "slavery" but
> >> more on "bondage" which translates back to "slavery" in the NIV. The
> >> Matthew part was what I originally intended to offer but the rest just came
> >> along.
> >
> >But, the passage you quoted said nothing about it being "evil" or "wrong" for
> the
> >Hebrews to be held in bondage. It merely said that they WOULD be, and that
> Egypt
> >WOULD be punished, which it was... But the punishment was not because the
> Hebrews
> >were slaves there, rather because Pharoah did not release them when God told
> him
> >to... It was his (1) unreasonable harshness to the Hebrew slaves, and (2) his
> >refusal to let them go when directed -- Read it in context and this becomes
> >clear. There was a time (read the part about Joseph) when God BLESSED Egypt
> >because of Pharaoh's relationship (master over slave) with Joseph.
> >
> >> I really lean more toward Celtic Buddhism so these forays into Xtian
> >> theological texts is rather illuminating.
> >
> >That's good... Since some of these folks are offended by biblical texts, I
> would
> >be very glad to discuss the above passages, or any others, with you... Could
> be
> >my
> >"take" on them is 100% wrong... but maybe I am not wrong at all. You be the
> >judge, after having an opportunity to study the passages using proper
> >hermaneutical procedures. In looking through your concordance, don't look
> for
> >"slave" but rather "servant" which IS a slave unless it says "hired" servant.
> >
> >Hawk
> -
> Aloha, He'Ping,
> Om, Shalom, Salaam.
> Em Hotep, Peace Be,
> Omnia Bona Bonis,
> All My Relations.
> Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
> Amen.
> Roads End
> Kris
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
> frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
> spread throughout the s
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > Howdy Hypocrite, Good morning... Having a nice day? > Whatsa matter, ain't got time to reply to my queries? I haven't seen any Is it something you sent today? > So, pray tell, what are the "proper hermaneutical procedures"? Are they > consistent? "Hermaneutics" is the art or science of "interpretation" primarily of written documents, and is usually applied to biblical interpretation. However, the "rules" are common in literature and historical/archealogical fields, and are not restricted to bible study. Check this site: http://www.greatnorthern.net/~ken/herm.html There are books on the subject, and quite a few "hits" can be found using the "Hotbot" search engine. Here are some general principles: Hermaneutics- Rules for Correct Biblical interpretation 1. TAKE THE WORDS IN THEIR USUAL AND ORDINARY SENSE. A. as the people to whom they were written would have understood B. NOT necessarily literal C. CAREFULLY note the response of the hearers ( do they understand or not ) [ only go as far as you need to in the rules ] 2. TAKE THE WORDS IN THE SENSE THAT THE PHRASE INDICATES (short context) How is the phrase using this word? [in the Original language] ( verb, noun, etc.) - "faith" could mean 'the act of believing' or 'the elements of believe'(as in statement of faith) or 'the whole religion itself' (as in the Christian faith). ex.- an (anarthrous noun); nn (noun); repro (relative pronoun) 3. TAKE THE WORDS IN CONTEXT ( long context ) this is sometimes referred to as ' reading around the text' ( several verses before and after the target text ) 4. CONSIDER THE OBJECT OR DESIGN OF THE PASSAGE A. General purpose of the writer ( stated or un-stated ) B. Specific purpose of the writer ( stated or un-stated ) 5. CONSULT PARALLEL PASSAGES (P.P.) - direct quotes (of this or others) A. is it a parallel? B. is it an inexact parallel? 6. RECOGNIZE PARALLEL EXCLUSIONS A. note any absence of your target text in any other related passages B. note any absence of your target text in any parallel passages > Hypocrite Hawk sez: > > "But, the passage you quoted said nothing about it being "evil" or "wrong" for > the Hebrews to be held in bondage." > > So let, us review, unless Hypocrite Hawk, can determine through "proper > hermaneutical procedures" if the Bible says an action is 'evil' or 'wrong'. The above is somewhat muddled, but presumably, anyone following the principles of hermaneutics should be able to arrive at a reasonably accurate understanding of written documents... Otherwise, why do automobiles come with "Owner's Manuals?" On the other hand, it could be that the document's author was unable to clearly state what he was trying to say, or that his ideas were inconsistent, and in such cases, it is more difficult, or sometimes impossible to determine the meaning -- For instance, "How to program your VCR" written by some Korean guy who is unfamiliar with English... In which case, you would probably have to resort to the original language (the reason for having study tools such as "Vines Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words.") > Do you have a list of "evil" or "wrong", oh, old, wise one? Certainly... however I would not call it an "exhaustive list." Some examples are: Do not steal, do not commit murder, do not commit adultary, etc. > I am not offended by Biblical texts, but by hypocrites that abuse them. I feel the same way about it. I do not approve of hypocrisy. > Oh, Hypocrite, you didn't answer my query about your intel secret ops? Cat got > your tongue? I don't think I saw any query about intel secret ops. But even if I had, I don't know anything at all about the subject of intel secret ops, and don't even know what it means. > What a . . . chauvanistic goober. Well, maybe so... I may be one of those, since I don't even know what it is. I think I am chauvanistic about some issues As for being a goober, I think that is slang (or African) for "peanut," and I am fairly certain that I am not of that species. However, I do know what a hypocrite is, and I do not think I am one of those. I have asked you numerous times to provide evidence of my hypocrisy, and you have steadfastly refused to do so. I have decided that you have no such evidence, based on your reluctance or inability to produce it. Hawk DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no c
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- Lord, have mercy, lady. Shall I really go through your noise, what is your point? [1] Hawk is offering classic apologist argumentation. So are you by the way. So there were black slave owners. That does does not mean slavery is/was wrong? And your argumenyt is racist. [2] Oh, Carlene, so what is apropriate, let some apologist tell lies backed up by his own personal interpretations of scripture? [3] How noble and hypocrotical [4] So you want to ba a slave? Again your answers are racist. [5] Weren't we benevolent. We did it for their own good. Again, you want to be a slave? [6] Nice, massa, . . . I guess if ya get raped nicely, It's OK. [7] I am sure the courage the gentleman showd was 'instilled' into him by the institution of slavery. You are getting close to being a gooberette. [8] Again, ya want to be a slave? [9] Invoking, Lincoln for what reason? [10] Well, then that makes it right. . . [11] Standing up for man and god. [12] Yes slavery was wrong then and now. Options - lick the boot or stand tall [13] Hawk is a hypocrite for espousing supernatural authority for the institution of slavery for chauvanistic reason, while stating that he wouldn't want to be a slaveholder or slave, whilst particpating in said supernaturals' 'universe'. [14] "separate but equal" was unconstitutional and void 'ab intio'. [15] Read it. Show me . . . [16] The nature of the day is not legality. Separate but equal was a sham and unconstitutional. In a message dated 1/13/99 2:17:25 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > >> An apologist for slavery and . . . You may think what you want, but do you >> realize your rationalzations are inhumane. > >[1]"""No...I don't see him apologizing...and like I noted in a previous >post...there were black slave owers and there were white slaves as well...but that >tends to be over looked...look at my other post for references in regard to this. > >h > >> do not personally approve of slavery. Seems you would finally get that >> through your head. > >I don't either, and I have the sense to realize that was acceptable than is not >necessarily so nowand things that are acceptable now will not be acceptable >in >the future. You have different societies and different mores...will find a >reference if you really need oneand you can not justify or condemn a >society..the past on the mores and beliefs of the now. > >> Have you ever heard of the word hypocrite? > >[2]"""Sorry to get in the middle here..but this post...oh well...did you ever >hear of the term.never mind...not appropriate on the list. > >> >> >> I do not say that "owning a human being is a humane idea" -- but neither is it >> an inhumane act. > >> personally do not wish to own a slave nor be a slave. >> - > >> >> Gosh, again, how noble. Gee, you wouldn't wish to be a slave. > [3]Didn't this gentleman also say he did not want to own slaves as well, > >> Which I will stand-up again, and again and say -you are wrong. >> [4]I am sorry don't understand what he is wrong about. >> === >>>Blacks are deprived ? >> http://memory.loc.gov/ >> gi- bin/query/D?wpa:8:./temp/~ammem_DgOA::@@@mdb=cwar,fsaall,vv,detr,wtc,dag,gotts cho,horyd,nfor,papr,wpa,aap,bdsbib,nawbib,consrvbib,varstg,presp,cowellbib,cal bkbib,suffrg,pan,gmd,mcc,toddbib,mgw,hlaw,bbpix,award97,ncr,musdibib,alad,lhbu mbib,hh,bbcards,mussm,rbpebib,raelbib >> >> http://e.usia.gov/education/amstudy/hislink.htm > >[5]Do you really know what there options were ? If they stayed in Africa what >do >you think would of happened ?? Many times being a slave was safer than other >alternatives at the time. > >[6]Look at the following article and see what is all providedI know your mind >is set one way, but look at the other side of the coin. > >Here is an article you might enjoy...and it is documentated. > >"""Atlanta Journal and Constitution, Thurs. Nov. 26, >1998 >> SecD-14 >> >> "Slaves' descendants honor slavemaster of ancestors" > > "Defying political correctness, decendants of Panola County, Texas, >slaves are dedicating a historical marker to the slaveholder who brought their >families here. .The marker will be dedicated to Spearman "Major" Holland >who brought slaves to East Texas in the 1840's. >> > >"Holland Quarters, a black community four miles north of Carthage in >Panola> County on land once used as a plantation. has been home to generations >descended> from Holland's slaves. . Research has shown that Holland was know >for > generosity toward his slaves...> According to Barbara Jefferson-Bonner, a Panola >County historian. She stated> "He was a great guy. He cared for his slaves in >a >unique kind of way. >When> Spearman left here, hye left his thousands of acres to slaves, who were > ancestors of mine." .During the Civil War, Spearman served as a captain in >the Texas >State> Troops, 4th Brigade. After the war he moved a
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/14/99 9:03:09 AM, you wrote: >do not commit murder Well, I've got a busy day, but a quick question. do yoy belive in capital punishment?, What about murdering during wartime? Om k DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/14/99 9:03:09 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >Do not steal How about stealing a humans' sovereignity> Om K DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- Short memory, hawk? hawk sez: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9901a&L=ctrl&D=0&O=A& P=67326">CTRL archives -- January 1999, week 1 (#625) I was in the USAF for almost seven years as a professional military officer and aviator. During three of those years, I was involved in what later became known as the "Delta Force," but which then was "Blue Triangle" and a couple of other secretive names. As such, I engaged in numerous "informal" wars, insurrections, and general mayhem for the govm't of the U.S. -- often not even allowed to wear the uniform (we called these "T-shirt and blue-jean missions). I was also in VietNam quite a bit, before the conflict became a "war." In all of those missions, we were directly involved on the "wrong" side, or were sticking our noses into other peoples' affairs, generally helping some dictatorial govm't obtain or maintain its harsh control over the populace. Then, for three more years, I was directly involved in intelligence gathering operations. For three years, every morning, I saw "raw intelligence" -- information that had not been "laundered" for public consumption. Not one time -- and I mean not even ONCE -- did the truth about what was going on reach the average American. We were lied to on a continual basis, and are being lied to at the present time. I was trained in the process of developing "cover stories" about things that happened, . . . In a message dated 1/14/99 9:03:09 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> Oh, Hypocrite, you didn't answer my query about your intel secret ops? Cat got >> your tongue? > >I don't think I saw any query about intel secret ops. But even if I had, I don't >know anything at loha, He'Ping, Om, Shalom, Salaam. Em Hotep, Peace Be, Omnia Bona Bonis, All My Relations. Adieu, Adios, Aloha. Amen. Roads End Kris DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> >do not commit murder
>
> Well, I've got a busy day, but a quick question.
>
> do yoy belive in capital punishment?,
Yes I do. In case you are unaware, the Bible (as does the law of most states)
distinguishes murder from capital punishment, justifiable homocide, inadvertant
homocide, etc. as well as between various kinds of "murder," such as 1st Degree,
2nd Degree, etc.
> What about murdering during wartime?
Again, the Bible has many many passages on how nations and individuals should
conduct themselves in war. My understanding is that combatants are expected to do
each other in... but, when an enemy surrenders himself, or is overwhelmed and at
your mercy, you should "show mercy"... I have a bit of a problem with the way the
USA conducts itself... For instance, I see no difference, except for the
magnitude, in Lt Calley killing 120 civilians with a rifle, and a govm't decision
to fire-bomb Dresden, or Tokyo, or to nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
By the way, I looked up the bible passage that supports the position that slavery
is not evil, but never-the-less, if a person can be free, it is a preferable
status.
1 Cor 7:19-21
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but {what matters is}
the keeping of the commandments of God.
20 Let each man remain in that condition in which he was called.
21 Were you called while a slave? Do not worry about it; but if you are able also
to become free, rather do that.
(NAS)
Now, my position has been clearly stated a number of times, that slavery is not
declared "evil" or "sinful" in the Bible.. I have also stated that I would NOT
want to be a slave... I think verse 21, above, supports that position. Thus,
adhering to that position does not qualify me for the vaunted title of "Hypocrite"
...
any more questions?
Hawk
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 1/14/99 9:03:09 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >Do not steal
>
> How about stealing a humans' sovereignity>
That's a "made up" crime and a "made up" sin... something you came up with on your
own, apparently... The bible quite clearly, in many passages, indicates that
capturing a person from another country is one of the means of obtaining
slaves and it does not condemn the act as evil or sinful.
The origin of the term "slave" is traced to the German sklave, meaning a captive
of the Slavonic race who had been forced into servitude (compare Slav)
Procuring of slaves: There are eight previously-listed methods, and now (9)
Capture in war.-- Thousands of men, women and children were taken in war as
captives and reduced, sometimes, to most menial slavery. Such slavery, however,
was more humane than wholesale butchery according to the customs of earlier times
. The two principal sources of slave supply were poverty in peace
and plunder in war.
Read particularly Numbers 31:25 - 29.
.Num 31:25-30
25 Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,
26 "You and Eleazar the priest and the heads of the fathers' {households} of the
congregation, take a count of the booty that was captured, both of man and of
animal;
27 and divide the booty between the warriors who went out to battle and all the
congregation.
28 "And levy a tax for the LORD from the men of war who went out to battle, one in
five hundred of the persons and of the cattle and of the donkeys and of the sheep;
29 take it from their half and give it to Eleazar the priest, as an offering to
the LORD.
30 "And from the sons of Israel's half, you shall take one drawn out of every
fifty of the persons, of the cattle, of the donkeys and of the sheep, from all the
animals, and give them to the Levites who keep charge of the tabernacle of the
LORD."
(NAS)
Hawk
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > Short memory, hawk? I am sometimes afflicted with short memory... What are specifically addressing? > hawk sez: > > I was in the USAF for almost seven years as a professional military officer > and aviator. During three of those years, I was involved in what later became > known as the "Delta Force," but which then was "Blue Triangle" and a couple of > other secretive names. As such, I engaged in numerous "informal" wars, > insurrections, and general mayhem for the govm't of the U.S. -- often not even > allowed to wear the uniform (we called these "T-shirt and blue-jean missions). > I was also in VietNam quite a bit, before the conflict became a "war." In all > of those missions, we were directly involved on the "wrong" side, or were > sticking our noses into other peoples' affairs, generally helping some > dictatorial govm't obtain or maintain its harsh control over the populace. > Then, for three more years, I was directly involved in intelligence gathering > operations. For three years, every morning, I saw "raw intelligence" -- > information that had not been "laundered" for public consumption. Not one time > -- and I mean not even ONCE -- did the truth about what was going on reach the > average American. We were lied to on a continual basis, and are being lied to > at the present time. I was trained in the process of developing "cover > stories" about things that happened, . . . > > Then dufus asked: > > >> Oh, Hypocrite, you didn't answer my query about your intel secret ops? Cat > got >> your tongue? > Hawk said: >I don't think I saw any query about intel secret ops. OK... I still don't know what questions or query you asked about "intel secret ops." As for my response that I didn't know what you were talking about, not one time, in all my USAF career was what I did called "intel secret ops." Its a phrase you made up, so far as I know. You seem to "make up" quite a lot of stuff. Now, just what was it you wanted to know concerning what YOU call "intel secret ops"? Hawk DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector-
You sir are still a hypocrite and you are not a follower of Jesus AKA The
Christ.
Who wrote Corinthians?
Paul/Saul the persecuter and Roman stooge.
Do unto others as you would have them to do you.
What day do you keep as the sabbath?
In a message dated 1/14/99 11:16:27 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>By the way, I looked up the bible passage that supports the position that
slavery
>is not evil, but never-the-less, if a person can be free, it is a preferable
>status.
>
>
>1 Cor 7:19-21
>19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but {what matters
is}
>the keeping of the commandments of God.
>20 Let each man remain in that condition in which he was called.
>21 Were you called while a slave? Do not worry about it; but if you are able
also
>to become free, rather do that.
>(NAS)
>
>Now, my position has been clearly stated a number of times, that slavery is
not
>declared "evil" or "sinful" in the Bible.. I have also stated that I would
NOT
>want to be a slave... I think verse 21, above, supports that position. Thus,
>adhering to that position does not qualify me for the vaunted title of
"Hypocrite"
>...
-
Aloha, He'Ping,
Om, Shalom, Salaam.
Em Hotep, Peace Be,
Omnia Bona Bonis,
All My Relations.
Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
Amen.
Roads End
Kris
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector-
Gee, hypocrite hawk, how come we are not still doing this today? Taking slaves
in warfare? I mean the Bible says we can; sez H. Hawk.
So a slave has his personal sovereignty? I would submit that his personal
sovereignty has been stolen. You just continue to show yourself to be an
ignorant hypocrite.
Did Jesus have long hair?
Om
K
In a message dated 1/14/99 11:28:54 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> -Caveat Lector-
>>
>> In a message dated 1/14/99 9:03:09 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> >Do not steal
>>
>> How about stealing a humans' sovereignity>
>
>That's a "made up" crime and a "made up" sin... something you came up with on
your
>own, apparently... The bible quite clearly, in many passages, indicates that
>capturing a person from another country is one of the means of obtaining
>slaves and it does not condemn the act as evil or sinful.
>
>The origin of the term "slave" is traced to the German sklave, meaning a
captive
>of the Slavonic race who had been forced into servitude (compare Slav)
>
>Procuring of slaves: There are eight previously-listed methods, and now (9)
>Capture in war.-- Thousands of men, women and children were taken in war as
>captives and reduced, sometimes, to most menial slavery. Such slavery,
however,
>was more humane than wholesale butchery according to the customs of earlier
times
>. The two principal sources of slave supply were poverty in
peace
>and plunder in war.
>
>Read particularly Numbers 31:25 - 29.
>
>.Num 31:25-30
>25 Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,
>26 "You and Eleazar the priest and the heads of the fathers' {households} of
the
>congregation, take a count of the booty that was captured, both of man and of
>animal;
>27 and divide the booty between the warriors who went out to battle and all
the
>congregation.
>28 "And levy a tax for the LORD from the men of war who went out to battle,
one
>in
>five hundred of the persons and of the cattle and of the donkeys and of the
sheep;
>
>29 take it from their half and give it to Eleazar the priest, as an offering
to
>the LORD.
>30 "And from the sons of Israel's half, you shall take one drawn out of every
>fifty of the persons, of the cattle, of the donkeys and of the sheep, from
all
>the
>animals, and give them to the Levites who keep charge of the tabernacle of
the
>LORD."
>(NAS)
-
Aloha, He'Ping,
Om, Shalom, Salaam.
Em Hotep, Peace Be,
Omnia Bona Bonis,
All My Relations.
Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
Amen.
Roads End
Kris
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- Gee, You are pretty crafty with your answers there. Gosh , I just don't know but like I say you are a hypocrite coward still in the pocket of a corrupt government and military. Ignorant also. Om K In a message dated 1/14/99 11:35:02 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> -Caveat Lector- >> >> Short memory, hawk? > >I am sometimes afflicted with short memory... What are specifically addressing? > >> hawk sez: >> >> I was in the USAF for almost seven years as a professional military officer >> and aviator. During three of those years, I was involved in what later became >> known as the "Delta Force," but which then was "Blue Triangle" and a couple of >> other secretive names. As such, I engaged in numerous "informal" wars, >> insurrections, and general mayhem for the govm't of the U.S. -- often not even >> allowed to wear the uniform (we called these "T-shirt and blue-jean missions). >> I was also in VietNam quite a bit, before the conflict became a "war." In all >> of those missions, we were directly involved on the "wrong" side, or were >> sticking our noses into other peoples' affairs, generally helping some >> dictatorial govm't obtain or maintain its harsh control over the populace. >> Then, for three more years, I was directly involved in intelligence gathering >> operations. For three years, every morning, I saw "raw intelligence" -- >> information that had not been "laundered" for public consumption. Not one time >> -- and I mean not even ONCE -- did the truth about what was going on reach the >> average American. We were lied to on a continual basis, and are being lied to >> at the present time. I was trained in the process of developing "cover >> stories" about things that happened, . . . >> >> Then dufus asked: >> >> >> Oh, Hypocrite, you didn't answer my query about your intel secret ops? Cat >> got >> your tongue? > >> Hawk said: >I don't think I saw any query about intel secret ops. > >OK... I still don't know what questions or query you asked about "intel secret >ops." As for my response that I didn't know what you were talking about, not one >time, in all my USAF career was what I did called "intel secret ops." Its a >phrase you made up, so far as I know. You seem to "make up" quite a lot of stuff. > >Now, just what was it you wanted to know concerning what YOU call "intel secret >ops"? > >Hawk DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- My real point about the Abraham passages is: They seem to be inconsistent (in both cases "Abraham's descendants"). I understand what the Nazarene was getting at by way of explanation to the descendants of Abraham. They seemed a little unsure. The first passage (Matt) deals with public displays of churchiness ... 'slavery' to what others' (peers') opinions of any one's abilities to demonstrate 'holiness' for said 'peers'. This may be seen in the current context of being a 'slave' to fashion or keeping up with the Jones' -- in any event worrying about those things for which the reward(s) are derived from mere mortals rather than from the divine. I, for one, am more impressed (coincidient with the passage) with those who maintain an inner sense (innocence?) about their faith rather than those trying to hammer THEIR interpretation of same into everyone else. One size does not fit all. I think the whole issue (slavery) can be summed up by pointing out that what happened in the South or in the Middle East during their respective times must be taken in context of THE TIMES. Used to be littering (to use an example from a different extreme) was okay. Times changed. Used to be going out in the woods and cutting a winter's worth of firewood was okay. Times changed. However, when speaking with those for whom these kinds of things may have been okay, their impressions are based on the context of THEIR times. Fast forward back to today. When we look at the past with a 1999 lens, there are all sorts of things that look average. Or better. Or worse. "The good ol' days." Beyond the truths contained in ANY religious treatise/test/whathaveyou, the benefits of having lived in a more idyllic time, I view such things as products of their times and must therefore look at who was doing what with whom for what reason and so forth. Because the Europeans may have had compelling reasons for adopting a Middle Eastern faith system, those reasons should be examined and thereby applied to what their perceptions were, rightness or wrongness of their actions -- what they, themselves did -- are something I can't do a thing about. A modern day person's acceptance of said faith system should be much different than a person of antiquity's (tradition vs inquisition, e.g.). Similarly, what passed for human bondage in one Southern state may have been different in another, or from locus of commerce to locus of commerce. What ensued as far as resolution of the problem itself would, in like fashion, be equally unacceptable in today's world. Can anyone conceive of being asked to go to war to solve a social issue in the U.S. -- today? Is Kathy Lee mustering troops to go free the sweat shop denizens? Does anyone recall the times the police and the Guard and others have been called out to put down if not prevent uprisings -- in our time? I can and Neil Young made a mint off a song therefrom. I have to apologise. I wasn't there for all of history. All I know is in my 1950's vintage mind, social/belief systems may have served someone's purpose and apparently ceased to around the early to mid-1800s -- in a big, civil, warring way. I also wasn't there in the Middle East when the Bible stories were being played out for future (30-60 years or more later) recording. What they were up to (in both eras) and what my forebears were up to were two entirely different "up tos". They may have worked well for those in the "good ol' days" and there may be some lessons to be learned by present generations -- in context. I am interested in what's going on NOW. History plays a part in determining how people's perception of the world have progressed or even regressed. Sometimes anachronistic works play a part and those elements are worth knowing. Sometimes a Mr. Blackwell analysis plays a part because it reflects peoples' likes and dislikes, agreements and disagreements. Anyway, who or what is in focus. What are the forces being exerted? Why? How? Interesting thing about the Matt passage: RIGHT after I posted it, I sat down to watch (read: endure) O'Reilly on Fox last night. His guest was a biblical scholar. Guess what passage he was using as his point of departure for analysing Clinton's contrition? This is why information is important, intrinsically important. Not because I'm going to convince anyone to become a Celtic Buddhist or make them a validator of that belief system or its texts. But because the information may relate to something happening now and explain how the dots are connected. The dots are there -- in 3d; all one needs to do is read Proust. A<>E<>R The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust + + + + + + +
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > Gee, You are pretty crafty with your answers there. Gosh , I just don't know > but like I say you are a hypocrite coward still in the pocket of a corrupt > government and military. > > Ignorant also. > > Om > K > My dear lady the only one that is ignorant here is the one doing the name callingwhat are your sources for this...you should have something to back. Your emotions are taking over any wisdom that you possess for if it is only name calling you can do, then you can't do much. One thing you are close to since the term Gooberette. means little peanut...and I suppose I am that..I am small in stature and my day always did call me a peanut. lol But with your name calling that is as close as you gotreferences...need references and I don't see them. Carlene DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/14/99 11:38:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << I don't believe this sh++ ! It is so juvenile, I don't know much about this person, but no one should be badgered like this, is this acceptable on this list ? If so I suppose I could do this toowhere are you coming from...take it private.(the only reason my private post got sent to the list, is because I was an oversight, received some bad news and my concentration was not there) But this is a deliberate attempt to disrupt this list, which I have been accused of. Carlene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> Carlene, you need to realize something. RoadsEnd, otherwise known as Kris Milligan IS THE LIST OWNER and chief moderator/editor, therefore he can do anything he wants. Additionally do you think he is going to sit idly by while people make ridiculous statements in support of slavery using the Bible for justification? Kris is merely calling the kettle black and asking him to answer his legitimate questions. Thank you. Teo1000 DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- > Kris is merely calling the kettle black and asking him to > answer his legitimate questions. > Thank you. > With name calling ?? Oh !!! Ok...but then ...I am confusedhe did not want any talk about the Bible, and name calling on the listbut there is a discussion going on...oh never mind.but thanks...for your information. Carlene DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- "Carlene M. Wojahn" wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > > Kris is merely calling the kettle black and asking him to > > answer his legitimate questions. > > Thank you. > > > > With name calling ?? > Oh !!! Ok...but then ...I am confusedhe did not want any talk about the Bible, > and name calling on the listbut there is a discussion going on...oh never > mind.but thanks...for your information. > > Carlene > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/15/99 1:36:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << With name calling ?? Oh !!! Ok...but then ...I am confusedhe did not want any talk about the Bible, and name calling on the listbut there is a discussion going on...oh never mind.but thanks...for your information. Carlene >> I thought this issue was satisfactorily addressed, why is it that you are having a hard time with it? Calling someone a hypocrite when they are one is not name calling it is merely telling it like it is. Discussion of the Bible WHEN IT IS USED TO PROSELYTIZE, OR ARGUE BELIEFS, AND OR FAITH IS NOT APPROPRIATE FOR THIS LIST. Using the Bible in arguing CONSPIRACY THEORY is acceptable, or to try and support ideas that are related to conspiracy theory. You want to argue religious conspiracy, like how Paul, formerly known as Saul, becomes the chief proponent of "Christianity" and an Apostle when he never met the Lord, and worked so much evil against the nascent church, that is okay. You want to argue how Paul's writing contradict those of Jesus on a number of points, or perhaps how he seemed to have many friends in Rome and may not have suffered as he would have everyone believe, that is okay too. Arguments that point out Paul's reliance upon the Mystery religions, such as Mithras and Attis worship for the main forms of religious expression in "Christianity" would also be acceptable. These are only examples of course, and many others would also have equal validity as things that might require the Bible to support the position. No proselytizing is allowed, so questions of faith and belief are not acceptable. The reason that Kris is going into the Bible himself is that he is trying to illustrate the hypocrisy of Hawk in his statements regarding slavery. Teo1000 DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > Gee, hypocrite hawk, how come we are not still doing this today? Taking slaves > in warfare? I mean the Bible says we can; sez H. Hawk. We, who? I'm not, for one reason, because I'm not fighting any wars at this time... Maybe later. > So a slave has his personal sovereignty? I would submit that his personal > sovereignty has been stolen. You just continue to show yourself to be an > ignorant hypocrite. And you continue to show yourself the equivalent of a gradeschool fool... I think whatever you are doing, you are needed somewhere as the village idiot. > Did Jesus have long hair? I don't know... Hawk DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > Gee, You are pretty crafty with your answers there. Gosh , I just don't know > but like I say you are a hypocrite coward still in the pocket of a corrupt > government and military. Oh, now I'm a hypocrite AND a coward... sure... And still in the pocket of a currpt government -- no, but my earnings are surely in their pockets... as for the military, I haven't been associated with them for more years than you've been conscious... but then, that isn't saying much. > Ignorant also. Yes... I am ignorant of many things... But, on the other hand, you are stupid. Hawk DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- Alamaine Ratliff wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > My real point about the Abraham passages is: They seem to be inconsistent > (in both cases "Abraham's descendants"). I understand what the Nazarene > was getting at by way of explanation to the descendants of Abraham. They > seemed a little unsure. > > The first passage (Matt) deals with public displays of churchiness ... > 'slavery' to what others' (peers') opinions of any one's abilities to > demonstrate 'holiness' for said 'peers'. This may be seen in the current > context of being a 'slave' to fashion or keeping up with the Jones' -- in > any event worrying about those things for which the reward(s) are derived > from mere mortals rather than from the divine. I, for one, am more > impressed (coincidient with the passage) with those who maintain an inner > sense (innocence?) about their faith rather than those trying to hammer > THEIR interpretation of same into everyone else. One size does not fit all. However, there is only ONE correct interpretation of any written passage... and that is what the writer had in mind when he wrote it... The trick is to determine what that was... and this is best done by following rules of hermaneutics (a field of study of which you admit you have no experience). > I think the whole issue (slavery) can be summed up by pointing out that > what happened in the South or in the Middle East during their respective > times must be taken in context of THE TIMES. Used to be littering (to use > an example from a different extreme) was okay. Times changed. Used to be > going out in the woods and cutting a winter's worth of firewood was okay. > Times changed. However, when speaking with those for whom these kinds of > things may have been okay, their impressions are based on the context of > THEIR times. Fast forward back to today. > > When we look at the past with a 1999 lens, there are all sorts of things > that look average. Or better. Or worse. "The good ol' days." Beyond the > truths contained in ANY religious treatise/test/whathaveyou, the benefits > of having lived in a more idyllic time, I view such things as products of > their times and must therefore look at who was doing what with whom for > what reason and so forth. Because the Europeans may have had compelling > reasons for adopting a Middle Eastern faith system, those reasons should be > examined and thereby applied to what their perceptions were, rightness or > wrongness of their actions -- what they, themselves did -- are something I > can't do a thing about. A modern day person's acceptance of said faith > system should be much different than a person of antiquity's (tradition vs > inquisition, e.g.). Similarly, what passed for human bondage in one > Southern state may have been different in another, or from locus of > commerce to locus of commerce. What ensued as far as resolution of the > problem itself would, in like fashion, be equally unacceptable in today's > world. Can anyone conceive of being asked to go to war to solve a social > issue in the U.S. -- today? Is Kathy Lee mustering troops to go free the > sweat shop denizens? Does anyone recall the times the police and the Guard > and others have been called out to put down if not prevent uprisings -- in > our time? I can and Neil Young made a mint off a song therefrom. I can see it happening in "our times," and I think I will see it happening, perhaps within the next six months... In fact, I saw it happening after a fashion in the aftermath of the great Rodney King incident (that great American philosopher and motorist) in Los Angeles. However, I will admit you were "on a roll" above, and exhiting some evidence of actual thought processes. I congratulate you on rising above mere name-calling. Hawk DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Carlene, you need to realize something. RoadsEnd, otherwise known as Kris > Milligan IS THE LIST OWNER and chief moderator/editor, therefore he can do > anything he wants. Additionally do you think he is going to sit idly by while > people make ridiculous statements in support of slavery using the Bible for > justification? You, Sir, are an ignorant son-of-a-bitch... I issue the same challenge to you that I issued to dumb-ass... You show me ONE statement I made "in support of slavery." Then, while you're at it, show me ONE biblical passage that condemns slavery. You cannot do it, and yet you add your stupid remarks to those of Kris... I keep asking him, and now I challenge you... Show me just one biblical passage that says slavery is immoral... AND show me just one place where I have supported slavery or said I was advocate slavery. > Kris is merely calling the kettle black and asking him to answer his legitimate > questions. Damn! You're stupid! What Kris has been doing, and what you are applauding is dumb-ass Kris's continually calling me a hypocrite and a liar, but never ONCE producing evidence of a lie or any inconsistency with what I say and what I practice. On the other hand, I have patiently answere EVERY question the dumb-ass has asked... Take up the challenge... show me otherwise. Hawk DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I thought this issue was satisfactorily addressed, why is it that you are > having a hard time with it? Calling someone a hypocrite when they are one is > not name calling it is merely telling it like it is. The issue has not been addressed AT ALL, much less "satisfactorily." Calling someone a hypocrite WITHOUT A SHRED OF EVIDENCE is nothing by juvenile name-calling and hasn't a damn thing to do with 'telling it like it is.' However, I'm glad you jumped in here Teo10 or whatever... YOU point out the inconsistency between what I say and what I do... Ball's in your court... jump on it.. > Discussion of the Bible WHEN IT IS USED TO PROSELYTIZE, OR ARGUE BELIEFS, AND OR > FAITH IS NOT APPROPRIATE FOR THIS LIST. Then maybe you should remind your pal Kris of this rule... I certainly have not violated it.. If so, show me where I used the bible to proseliytize... nor have I urged anyone to believe it.. What I said was that calling something a "sin" requires a bit more than mere personal opinion, and that the Southern people in the mid 1800's looked to the bible as their source for determining right and wrong.. If that isn't a fact, then YOU produce evidence to the contrary.. This is beginning to sound like a broken record... > Using the Bible in arguing CONSPIRACY THEORY is acceptable, or to try and > support ideas that are related to conspiracy theory. Have you reminded Kris of this rule? Where is this rule posted? Did you make it up just now? > You want to argue religious conspiracy, like how Paul, formerly known as Saul, > becomes the chief proponent of "Christianity" and an Apostle when he never met > the Lord, and worked so much evil against the nascent church, that is okay. > You want to argue how Paul's writing contradict those of Jesus on a number of > points, or perhaps how he seemed to have many friends in Rome and may not have > suffered as he would have everyone believe, that is okay too. Arguments that > point out Paul's reliance upon the Mystery religions, such as Mithras and > Attis worship for the main forms of religious expression in "Christianity" > would also be acceptable. Stupid, but anything goes... > These are only examples of course, and many others would also have equal > validity as things that might require the Bible to support the position. No > proselytizing is allowed, so questions of faith and belief are not acceptable. blah, blah, blah give me a break! > The reason that Kris is going into the Bible himself is that he is trying to > illustrate the hypocrisy of Hawk in his statements regarding slavery. And, I might add, he's doing a piss poor job... He hasn't found a singe passage or verse ... and neither will you... Prove me wrong. hawk DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- > like I say you are a hypocrite coward still in the pocket of a corrupt government > and military. Wait !! If you are going to call names, and that is what it is..because it does not have any substance behind it you got to do it right. For instanceyou are calling Hawk a hypocrite, now you don't have any proof on this, but you still can get away with saying "Hawk, it is in my lowly opinion that you are a god@@@ blanketedly blank hypocrite." In fact you can go on and on that way or > > >>>Oh, now I'm a hypocrite AND a coward... sure... And still in the you've been > conscious... but then, that isn't saying much. > No commentsometimes says a lotso here I will say no comment > > > Ignorant also. You forgot to use the world think...but then again... > > > Yes... I am ignorant of many things... But, on the other hand, you are stupid. you can use the word seem... So let us go over this when there is no substance or reason to the name calling it is name calling. You should use the word think...that is if you can...or the words seems or appears to be this or thator you can just use the words no comment to actually stress a point. Well now that you know how to do it right, continue. Carlene > > > Hawk DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- "Carlene M. Wojahn" wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > > like I say you are a hypocrite coward still in the pocket of a corrupt government > > and military. > > Wait !! If you are going to call names, and that is what it is..because it does not > have any substance behind it you got to do it right. For instanceyou are calling > Hawk a hypocrite, now you don't have any proof on this, but you still can get away >with > saying "Hawk, it is in my lowly opinion that you are a god@@@ blanketedly blank > hypocrite." In fact you can go on and on that >After reading this thought I would let you know that, that was only an example..I >am not calling Hawk..his name..ok Hawk that name. I could of just as easily said "Kris, it seems that you are acting quite stupid, to be doing this to your list. I know you pay for it, but you have to set standards..well you have but your not following them." Anyhow you catch the drift you got to use a word like seems, appears, looks like, or I think can help you call names in a more efficient manner... > OkI will help Hawk out here..with his response to ignorant..when he uses the word > stupid. He should be saying something like this..it seems...I think..in my opinion >you > are stupid because you are calling me names and not proving a G##-Dam% thing. Well > that is what he could say if he uses those words. :>0 > Also No commentsometimes says a lotso here I will say no comment > > > > > > Ignorant also. > > You forgot to use the world think...but then again... > > > > > > > Yes... I am ignorant of many things... But, on the other hand, you are stupid. > > you can use the word seem... So let us go over this when there is no substance >or > reason to the name calling it is name calling. You should use the word think...that >is > if you can...or the words seems or appears to be this or thator you can just use > the words no comment to actually stress a point. > > Well now. that you know how to do it right, continue...no more interruptions (I > think) > > Carlene > > > > > > > Hawk > > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > == > CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic > screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters > and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright > frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects > spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL > gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; > be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and > nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > > Archives Available at: > http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Om DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- Hwody, Well now, calling someone a hypocrite is not name-calling, It is stating a fact. You seem to inordiantely involved in this debate. Any particular reason? If you think that it is proper to use the Lord's name in vain with a curse whilst making my opinion again you are sadly mistaken. And as for your syntax advice, . . . . Many times my remarks have been followed by MHO, which stands for my humble opinion. In my reading of the bible and understanding of Jesus the Nazerite AKA The Christ, Hawk is a classic hypocrite. There is much written proof that Hawk is a hypocrite and truly don't feel that he has anything in mind but disruption of this list. But ya have to understand, we been disrupted by eruditer hypocrites than hawk. Why are you defending HawK's hypocrisy with your innanities about name-calling and such? Oh and thanks for calling me stupid. Do you have documentation? Om K In a message dated 1/14/99 10:36:27 PM, you wrote: >With name calling ?? >Oh !!! Ok...but then ...I am confusedhe did not want any talk about the Bible, >and name calling on the listbut there is a discussion going on...oh never >mind.but thanks...for your information. > >Carlene In a message dated 1/15/99 6:12:16 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >Wait !! If you are going to call names, and that is what it is..because it does >not >have any substance behind it you got to do it right. For instanceyou are calling >Hawk a hypocrite, now you don't have any proof on this, but you still can get away >with saying "Hawk, it is in my lowly opinion that you are a god@@@ blanketedly >blank >hypocrite." >In fact you can go on and on that way or > >you can use the word seem... So let us go over this when there is no substance >or >reason to the name calling it is name calling. You should use the word think...that >is if you can...or the words seems or appears to be this or thator you can >just >use the words no comment to actually stress a point. > >Well now that you know how to do it right, continue. > >Carlene In a message dated 1/15/99 6:50:59 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >"Carlene M. Wojahn" wrote: > > > After reading this thought I would let you know that, that was only an example..I >am > >not calling Hawk..his name..ok Hawk that name. I could of just as easily said >"Kris, it > >seems that you are acting quite stupid, to be doing this to your list. I know >you pay > >for it, but you have to set standards..well you have but your not following them." > > > > Anyhow you catch the drift you got to use a word like seems, appears, looks like, >or I > >think can help you call names in a more efficient manner... > > > >> OkI will help Hawk out here..with his response to ignorant..when he uses >the word > >> stupid. He should be saying something like this..it seems...I think..in my opinion >you > >> are stupid because you are calling me names and not proving a G##-Dam% thing. > Well > >> that is what he could say if he uses those words. > > > - Aloha, He'Ping, Om, Shalom, Salaam. Em Hotep, Peace Be, Omnia Bona Bonis, All My Relations. Adieu, Adios, Aloha. Amen. Roads End Kris DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > Hwody, > Well now, calling someone a hypocrite is not name-calling, It is stating a > fact. It may indeed be a fact that I am a hypocrite And some people may have a real interest in knowing that "fact." However, up to this point, you have not produced a single shred of evidence to support that "fact." I'm waiting... > Many times my remarks have been followed by MHO, which stands for my humble > opinion. Can you point us to the post in which you modified your accusation that I am a hypocrite with the use of "MHO?" If it happened "many times" -- as you say -- there is no need to exhibit all of them, just one or two will do. > In my reading of the bible and understanding of Jesus the Nazerite AKA The > Christ, Hawk is a classic hypocrite. There is much written proof that Hawk is > a hypocrite How about posting some of that "written proof?" Hell, if you cannot find any "proof," how about just some "credible evidence?" > and truly don't feel that he has anything in mind but disruption of this list. What is one expected to do, when called a liar and a hypocrite, unless it is to ask for the evidence to be presented? How is asking for evidence of your lible and slander misconstrued as "disruption of this list?" > But ya have to understand, we been disrupted by eruditer hypocrites than hawk. If your list has ever been disrupted by a hypocrite, he was a more "eruditer hypocrite" than I... seeing as how I haven't been shown any evidence of my presumed hypocrisy. Hawk DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- My, my getting testy aren't we. In a message dated 1/14/99 11:58:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> -Caveat Lector- >> >> Gee, hypocrite hawk, how come we are not still doing this today? Taking slaves >> in warfare? I mean the Bible says we can; sez H. Hawk. > >We, who? I'm not, for one reason, because I'm not fighting any wars at this >time... Maybe later. = Well, let us see, hawk didn't answer this question. Just some 'cute' words. = > >> So a slave has his personal sovereignty? I would submit that his personal >> sovereignty has been stolen. You just continue to show yourself to be an >> ignorant hypocrite. > >And you continue to show yourself the equivalent of a gradeschool fool... I think >whatever you are doing, you are needed somewhere as the village idiot. = Again, hawk has not answered any question or dealt with the issue at hand but has resorted to name calling and more 'cute' answers. I submit again, does a slave have personal sovereignty? = > >> Did Jesus have long hair? > >I don't know... = Hawk can you please tell me what rules are valid in the Old Testament and which aren't? = >Hawk In a message dated 1/14/99 11:55:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> You sir are still a hypocrite and you are not a follower of Jesus AKA The >> Christ. > >You don't know what you're talking about. as usual. = What is it, that do I not know what I am talking about, sir? = > >> Who wrote Corinthians? >> Paul/Saul the persecuter and Roman stooge. > >"All scripture is inspired by God, and is profitable" = So is the Bible infallible and inerrant? = > >> Do unto others as you would have them to do you. > >I usually try to follow this... Do you? If so, then you should love being called >a hypocrite and a liar. = So, how come you do not wish to be a slaveholder nor slave, and allow for institution of slavery to be "blessed' by G*d. = > >> What day do you keep as the sabbath? > >None of your business. = Fraid to show your true colours? = > >Hawk In a message dated 1/15/99 12:01:03 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> -Caveat Lector- >> >> Gee, You are pretty crafty with your answers there. Gosh , I just don't know >> but like I say you are a hypocrite coward still in the pocket of a corrupt >> government and military. > >Oh, now I'm a hypocrite AND a coward... sure... And still in the pocket of a >currpt government -- no, but my earnings are surely in their pockets... as for >the >military, I haven't been associated with them for more years than you've been >conscious... but then, that isn't saying much. = Gee, thanks for the personal attack. You must really be old. Yes, you are a coward and ignorant. A coward for not informing us citizens of the illegal actions you and our government have taken. Stand-up and be a man. And ignorant for working for the military and particpating in unconstituional actions. == > >> Ignorant also. > >Yes... I am ignorant of many things... But, on the other hand, you are stupid. > >Hawk = Again thanks for the personal attack. Ignorance is lacking knowledege or understanding. To call someone stupid is to say they are very mentally slow in mind. = In a message dated 1/15/99 12:09:54 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >However, there is only ONE correct interpretation of any written passage... and >that is what the writer had in mind when he wrote it... The trick is to determine >what that was... and this is best done by following rules of hermaneutics (a field >of study of which you admit you have no experience). = Well, I guess, we can call him Pope Hawk, cause he is infallable and knows the ONE CORRECT INTERPRETATION. Gee, I wonder if there is any disagrement among hermaeuticians? What a chauvanist. = In a message dated 1/15/99 12:45:39 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> Carlene, you need to realize something. RoadsEnd, otherwise known as Kris >> Milligan IS THE LIST OWNER and chief moderator/editor, therefore he can do >> anything he wants. Additionally do you think he is going to sit idly by while >> people make ridiculous statements in support of slavery using the Bible for >> justification? > >You, Sir, are an ignorant son-of-a-bitch... I issue the same challenge to you that >I issued to dumb-ass... You show me ONE statement I made "in support of slavery." >Then, while you're at it, show me ONE biblical passage that condemns slavery. >You >cannot do it, and yet you add your stupid remarks to those of Kris... I keep >asking him, and now I challenge you... Show me just one biblical passage that says >slavery is immoral... AND show me just one place where I have supported slavery >or >said I was advocate slavery. Again, I am sure we all appreciate your level of discourse and your personal attack upon people and their mothers. "Do unto others as you would have them do un
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > My, my getting testy aren't we. > > In a message dated 1/14/99 11:58:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > >> -Caveat Lector- > >> > >> Gee, hypocrite hawk, how come we are not still doing this today? Taking > slaves in warfare? I mean the Bible says we can; sez H. Hawk. > > > >We, who? I'm not, for one reason, because I'm not fighting any wars at this > >time... Maybe later. > = > Well, let us see, hawk didn't answer this question. Just some 'cute' words. > = I told you why "we" are not taking slaves in warfare.. One reason is because I am not engaged in any applicable warfare in which slaves might be taken.. Another reason is, as I have said many times, I do not want any slaves. If by "we" you mean the United States, I cannot answer for the govm't... I could only presume that they would rather kill people than take slaves. It doesn't mean that they necessarily have an aversion to slavery... and in fact (to keep this topical), I venture there are plans (conspiracies) in the pot right now to enslave people. > >> So a slave has his personal sovereignty? I would submit that his personal > >> sovereignty has been stolen. You just continue to show yourself to be an > >> ignorant hypocrite. > > > >And you continue to show yourself the equivalent of a gradeschool fool... I > think whatever you are doing, you are needed somewhere as the village idiot. > = > Again, hawk has not answered any question or dealt with the issue at hand but > has resorted to name calling and more 'cute' answers. I submit again, does a > slave have personal sovereignty? > = I do not know the definition of words or phrases you concoct. If by "personal" you mean "as an individual" and "sovereignty" you mean absolute control over his affairs, then my answer is "No, a slave does not have personal sovereignty." In fact, neither do non-slaves. > >> Did Jesus have long hair? > > > >I don't know... > = > Hawk can you please tell me what rules are valid in the Old Testament and > which aren't? > = Which "rules" are you asking about? I don't know how you are using the word, "valid." If you mean do the "laws" of Leviticus have jurisdiction over Christians, the answer is "no." If, for instance, you mean "The 10 Commandments," the answer is "None of them." and I base that on, among other passages, Romans 7. There are many passages (particularly entire book of Galatians, and much of Ephesians) that teach specifically, "If you wish to apply any portion of the law upon yourself as an obligation, then you must apply all of it. It is a package deal." However for you, as a Celtic Bhuddist, whatever in the hell that is, it ALL applies to you, according to my understanding of New Testament doctrine on this matter. Hawk DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 1/15/99 9:20:47 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> -Caveat Lector- >> >> My, my getting testy aren't we. >> >> In a message dated 1/14/99 11:58:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> >> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> > >> >> -Caveat Lector- >> >> >> >> Gee, hypocrite hawk, how come we are not still doing this today? Taking >> slaves in warfare? I mean the Bible says we can; sez H. Hawk. >> > >> >We, who? I'm not, for one reason, because I'm not fighting any wars at this >> >time... Maybe later. >> = >> Well, let us see, hawk didn't answer this question. Just some 'cute' words. >> = > >I told you why "we" are not taking slaves in warfare.. One reason is because I >am >not engaged in any applicable warfare in which slaves might be taken.. Another >reason is, as I have said many times, I do not want any slaves. If by "we" you >mean the United States, I cannot answer for the govm't... I could only presume >that they would rather kill people than take slaves. It doesn't mean that they >necessarily have an aversion to slavery... and in fact (to keep this topical), >I >venture there are plans (conspiracies) in the pot right now to enslave people. = Again a 'cute' answer, while evaded any real answer. I submitt that 'we' as a nation do not take slaves is because it is Wrong and can't be sold under even wuth some muddle-headed 'religious doctrine'. Not because our government wishes to kill humans instead of taking slaves -a truly ignorant answer. Conspiracies to decieve people and to 'enslave' them to political and technocratic pogroms is different than the institution of humans OWNING other humans. = > >> >> So a slave has his personal sovereignty? I would submit that his personal >> >> sovereignty has been stolen. You just continue to show yourself to be an >> >> ignorant hypocrite. >> > >> >And you continue to show yourself the equivalent of a gradeschool fool... I >> think whatever you are doing, you are needed somewhere as the village idiot. >> = >> Again, hawk has not answered any question or dealt with the issue at hand but >> has resorted to name calling and more 'cute' answers. I submit again, does a >> slave have personal sovereignty? >> = > >I do not know the definition of words or phrases you concoct. If by "personal" >you mean "as an individual" and "sovereignty" you mean absolute control over his >affairs, then my answer is "No, a slave does not have personal sovereignty." In >fact, neither do non-slaves. = Ok, who took the personal sovereinty from the slave? Does this not constitute theft? Again you try and change the subject by commiserating on the political realities of today. = > >> >> Did Jesus have long hair? >> > >> >I don't know... >> = >> Hawk can you please tell me what rules are valid in the Old Testament and >> which aren't? >> = > >Which "rules" are you asking about? I don't know how you are using the word, >"valid." If you mean do the "laws" of Leviticus have jurisdiction over >Christians, the answer is "no." If, for instance, you mean "The 10 Commandments," >the answer is "None of them." and I base that on, among other passages, Romans >7. There are many passages (particularly entire book of Galatians, and much of >Ephesians) that teach specifically, "If you wish to apply any portion of the law >upon yourself as an obligation, then you must apply all of it. It is a package >deal." However for you, as a Celtic Bhuddist, whatever in the hell that is, it >ALL applies to you, according to my understanding of New Testament doctrine on >this matter. = So if none of the above rules apply, why did you hypocritically quote certain 'rules' from Numbers to back-up your assertion that slavery isn't a wrong action. I have never claimed to be a Celtic Buddhist. So what are the rules, Pope Hawk? And how come you favour the words of saul/paul over the words of Jesus the Nazerite AKA The Christ? Do you really enjoy showing the world your hypocrisy and ignorance? There is some entertainment value, though. = >Hawk - Aloha, He'Ping, Om, Shalom, Salaam. Em Hotep, Peace Be, Omnia Bona Bonis, All My Relations. Adieu, Adios, Aloha. Amen. Roads End Kris DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at:
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- I would say that this list is in deep trouble---again. Didn't we go through all this already with the guys who thought some Nazis were "nice." Now we're doing it with some other guys who think some slavery is okay? and who are doubletalking about racism? Are we back to Bible-thumping? All it seems to lead to are stupid flames and name-calling--which I thought was not allowed on this list. Do I have to make a whole new filtering list so my program just deletes these unfortunate posts? Wha's goin' on here? I haven't got the time to waste. sno0wl On 15 Jan 99, , [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > In a message dated 1/15/99 9:20:47 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > >> -Caveat Lector- > >> > >> My, my getting testy aren't we. > >> > >> In a message dated 1/14/99 11:58:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> > >> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> > > >> >> -Caveat Lector- > >> >> > >> >> Gee, hypocrite hawk, how come we are not still doing this today? Taking > >> slaves in warfare? I mean the Bible says we can; sez H. Hawk. sno0wl DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > > Well now, calling someone a hypocrite is not name-calling, It is stating a > fact. You seem to inordiantely involved in this debate. Any particular > reason? No...except the name calling ends up in my mailbox..I do enjoy your other post, which you write with foresight and thought, so I start reading these name calling ones...which is aggravating, because it lessens my opinion of you in a way. I mean right after reading a great post of yours, which I enjoyed immensely...you lower yourself to this.IMHO > If you think that it is proper to use the Lord's name in vain with a > curse whilst making my opinion again you are sadly mistaken. That was an example...and I forgot to blank out another letter,,,and besides that I did not type it all out nor did I use a capital G which would denote our God. > And as for your syntax advice, . . . . Many times my remarks have been followed > by MHO, which stands for my humble opinion. >>>NOT LATELY > Hawk is a classic hypocrite. There is much written proof that Hawk is > a hypocrite and truly don't feel that he has anything in mind but disruption > of this list. But ya have to understand, we been disrupted by eruditer > hypocrites than hawk. > > Why are you defending HawK's hypocrisy with your innanities about name-calling > and such? >>>I am not defending Hawk if you would notice...I should you how to use correct syntax if you so wanted to continue doing this..this way no one gets into any legal trouble. >>>We have gotten off on a tangent here...with this name calling and would like to see your intelligent comments, which I so enjoy, with this topic and get back discussing facts. > Oh and thanks for calling me stupid. Do you have documentation? > > >>>I was giving examples...in all of my post I was calling anyone anything. >Like I said after posting an example "After reading this thought I would let you know that, that was only an example..I>am>not calling Hawk. this name.Kris," AND VICE A VERSA. > However now that I think of it..even though I did not call you stupid ...I > said "it seems that you are acting quite stupid, to be doing this to your list. > I know>you pay>>for it, but you have to set standards..well you have but your > not following them." A list owner usually set the tone of the list, at least in > my observations. >>>Like I said before, I do enjoy reading some of your other posts, but for some reason you don't seem to use this logic when addressing Hawk. I don't know why. > Carlene > > > > > > > it > > > >seems that you are acting quite stupid, to be doing this to your list. I > know > >you pay > > > >for it, but you have to set standards..well you have but your not following > them." > > > > > > > > Anyhow you catch the drift you got to use a word like seems, appears, looks > like, > >or I > > > >think can help you call names in a more efficient manner... > > > > > > > >> OkI will help Hawk out here..with his response to ignorant..when he > uses > >the word > > > >> stupid. He should be saying something like this..it seems...I think..in my > opinion > >you > > > >> are stupid because you are calling me names and not proving a G##-Dam% > thing. > > Well > > > >> that is what he could say if he uses those words. > > > > > > > - > Aloha, He'Ping, > Om, Shalom, Salaam. > Em Hotep, Peace Be, > Omnia Bona Bonis, > All My Relations. > Adieu, Adios, Aloha. > Amen. > Roads End > Kris > > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > == > CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic > screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters > and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright > frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects > spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL > gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; > be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and > nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > > Archives Available at: > http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Om DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Sno0wl wrote: >I would say that this list is in deep trouble---again. > >Didn't we go through all this already with the guys who thought some Nazis were >"nice." Now we're doing it with some other guys who think some slavery is okay? >and who are doubletalking about racism? Notice a pattern, Marilyn? I hope other 'old timers' on this list also notice a distinct similarity, not only between this new crop and the old neonazi group, but also a strange similarity amongst the postings of the 'new' pro-slavery 'crowd'...almost as if it were the same person talking... ;-) >Wha's goin' on here? I haven't got the time to waste. I suspect a deliberate attempt to disrupt, and possibly kill, the list... but that's just me... BTW, how are the pups' doing? June === The melancholy days are come, the saddest of the year, Of wailing winds and naked woods, and meadows brown and sear. -- Wm. Cullen Bryant: The Death of the Flowers === *---* revcoal AT connix DOT com *---* It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227. I assess a fee of $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial email. Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these terms. My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. ** DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- YnrChyldzWyld wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > On Fri, 15 Jan 1999, Sno0wl wrote: > >I would say that this list is in deep trouble---again. > > Since you said new, and I believe I am the newest, it appears that you are talking about me. I would say it is because of name calling, I do want to learn if we can get back to the points at hand. > > >Didn't we go through all this already with the guys who thought some Nazis were > "nice." Now we're doing it with some other guys who think some slavery is okay? I never said it was okay..try to relate to the past. Can we condemn those, the society for different mores. It was not necessarily wrong at that time. Carlene (trying to get back onto the topic...just watch..for name calling) > > >and who are doubletalking about racism? > > I am not talking about racism, and I am not a racist, . Please show me a > statement that show that I am racistnope I don't think so. (Thinking about > conversations I have had with my family...they defintiely know that I am not. > However, I will point out things, that things that are acceptable for society..and > right for that society..at that time, can not be judged by today. > > I hope other 'old timers' on this list also notice a distinct similarity, > >>>Right !! Let us get back to the topic..at hand. > not only between this new crop and the old neonazi group, but also a > strange similarity amongst the postings of the 'new' pro-slavery > 'crowd'...almost as if it were the same person talking... ;-) > > >Wha's goin' on here? I haven't got the time to waste. Yeah right !! Huh !! Oh, ok now I am a neo-nazi ? Yeah right, far from it. If you want details on my beliefs let me know. > Carlene > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- On 14 Jan 99, , Hawk wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > -Caveat Lector- > > > > Howdy Hypocrite, > > Good morning... Having a nice day? > > > Whatsa matter, ain't got time to reply to my queries? > > I haven't seen any Is it something you sent today? > > > So, pray tell, what are the "proper hermaneutical procedures"? Are they > > consistent? > > "Hermaneutics" is the art or science of "interpretation" primarily of written > documents, and is usually applied to biblical interpretation. However, the > "rules" are common in literature and historical/archealogical fields, and are not > restricted to bible study. Check this site: > http://www.greatnorthern.net/~ken/herm.html Congratulations, Hawk! You have made it to my Filter-Delete list. I have absolutely no idea what you are doing here. I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say to people on this list that has any value.. And until something convinces me otherwise, I want to save the bandwith. IMO, Kris is making a mistake trying to "argue" with you. I'm sorry to see that. You are clearly a no-win kinda guy. Enjoy your Mercedes. Have a nice day. sno0wl DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- Sno0wl wrote: > Congratulations, Hawk! > > You have made it to my Filter-Delete list. Good. > I have absolutely no idea what you are doing here. You also apparently have no idea what YOU are doing here. > I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say to people on this list that has > any value.. I wouldn't think that you would. > And until something convinces me otherwise, I want to save the bandwith. Good. > IMO, Kris is making a mistake trying to "argue" with you. I'm sorry to see that. You > are clearly a no-win kinda guy. I hadn't noticed... > Enjoy your Mercedes. Have a nice day. I will... or maybe the Cadillac... Gee If I were to get rid of the Cadillac, would it materialize in some African's front yard? Hawk DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- At 07:05 PM 1/17/99 +, Snobird wrote: > -Caveat Lector- >Congratulations, Hawk! > >You have made it to my Filter-Delete list. > >I have absolutely no idea what you are doing here. I have absolutely no idea >what >you're trying to say to people on this list that has any value.. And until >something >convinces me otherwise, I want to save the bandwith. > >IMO, Kris is making a mistake trying to "argue" with you. I'm sorry to see >that. You >are clearly a no-win kinda guy. > >Enjoy your Mercedes. Have a nice day. >sno0wl I understand, some persons are simply unable to bear the discomfort that can result from exposure to the ideas of others, and are especially confounded when those ideas directly challenge their own world view. It is probably better that you filter, rather than overextend. Barb > >DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER >== >CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic >screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters >and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright >frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects >spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL >gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; >be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and >nazi's need not apply. > >Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > >Archives Available at: >http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html > >http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > >To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: >SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: >SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Om DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: >I understand, some persons are simply unable to bear the discomfort that >can result from exposure to the ideas of others, and are especially >confounded when those ideas directly challenge their own world view. It >is >probably better that you filter, rather than overextend. > >Barb maybe you and squawk ought to start your own list, then you could expose each other to the truth and logic of your ideas. and you would not be lonely because you would have each other. grinnin' dis time, chris DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: >I will... or maybe the Cadillac... Gee If I were to get rid of the >Cadillac, would >it materialize in some African's front yard? > >Hawk gee hawk is that overt racism, maybe you are getting tired of this list. k. has my vote to bounce your noisey stuff. let me be the first to bid thee... chris DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- At 08:13 PM 1/17/99 -0800, Chris wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > >[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: >>I understand, some persons are simply unable to bear the discomfort that >>can result from exposure to the ideas of others, and are especially >>confounded when those ideas directly challenge their own world view. It >>is >>probably better that you filter, rather than overextend. >> >>Barb > > >maybe you and squawk ought to start your own list, then you could expose >each other to the truth and logic of your ideas. and you would not be >lonely because you would have each other. > >grinnin' dis time, >chris Chris, you know I'd never leave without you!! Besides, you need truth and logic and who would worry about your meds?? Barb > >DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER >== >CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic >screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters >and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright >frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects >spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL >gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; >be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and >nazi's need not apply. > >Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > >Archives Available at: >http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html > >http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > >To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: >SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: >SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Om DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
E Mail wrote: -Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: >I understand, some persons are simply unable to bear the discomfort that >can result from exposure to the ideas of others, Yes, it can be difficult to look at other ideas, but if you don't you are stuck in a rut, and learning, learning is limited to what you believe. Some times your beliefs should be challenged, when they are you see the other way people can look at things, and your beliefs might get stronger. Are some of the people on the list, so insecure, they have to resort to name calling. Let us get back to the topic, and to references..and follow the rules that this list was built on...no emailing. and are especially >confounded when those ideas directly challenge their own world view. It >is >probably better that you filter, rather than overextend. >>>AMEN maybe you and squawk ought to start your own list, then you could expose each other to the truth a Well, the truth or even discussing another point of view is not welcomed here, at least not on this subject. It appears in looking back at the archive people have drawn this Hawk guy into a conversation, by saying stuff like why aren't you answeringwell not in those words but means the same and when he does, when anyone else does, with a different point of view you attack. and logic of your ideas >>Logic...yes logic is needed on this list or at least with this discussion. I hate name calling of any kind, and it looks like that is what is expected on this list. If someone has a different point of view you knock him/her down. You have to learn to take your blinders off and look at the whole picture...like different mores...and the like. What happened in the past can not be judged correctly by today's mores. bet you even think...that we should apologize...going to another war here, for the bombing of Hiroshima. and you would not be lonely because you would have each other. >>>and probably a lot more. You answering with your rudeness is what I meant by Kris setting the tone, for this listabusive, narrow minded.at least with this subject and how this discussion has been going. grinnin' dis time, chris >Wait !! Are you the same Kris...that has this list.now I am sounding paranoid.and you knowgrinning can be done by even an idiot... lol See what I mean...this is how you sound...abusive. >Your minds seem to be closed to any learning..all SOME of you want to do, is find a clique and go by that. There is no basis for name calling here. >>Remember me sending this following post in reply to someone writing this. I would say that this list is in deep trouble---again. Well I thought things quieted down, but I was wrong, people have to keep badgering one another and it isn't from the newbies. > > Remember me writing this in one of my previous posts(trying to get back onto the topic...just watch..for name calling) >>>Well, I wasn't wrong, was I ? Tried to get it back on to the topic and what happens ? People get called names again !!! I would say that this list is in deep trouble---again. > > >Right !! Let us get back to the topic..at hand. I do want to learn and will, if we can get back to the points at hand. Now we're doing it with some other guys who think some slavery is okay? I never said it was okay..try to relate to the past. Can we condemn those, the society for different mores. It was not necessarily wrong at that time. Carlene (trying to get back onto the topic...just watch..for name calling)
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- Barb Witt wrote: > -Caveat Lector- > > At 07:05 PM 1/17/99 +, Snobird wrote: > > -Caveat Lector- > > >Congratulations, Hawk! > > > >You have made it to my Filter-Delete list. > > > >I have absolutely no idea what you are doing here. I have absolutely no idea > >what > >you're trying to say to people on this list that has any value.. And until > >something > >convinces me otherwise, I want to save the bandwith. > > > >IMO, Kris is making a mistake trying to "argue" with you. I'm sorry to see > >that. You > >are clearly a no-win kinda guy. > > > >Enjoy your Mercedes. Have a nice day. > >sno0wl > > I understand, some persons are simply unable to bear the discomfort that > can result from exposure to the ideas of others, and are especially > confounded when those ideas directly challenge their own world view. It is > probably better that you filter, rather than overextend. > > Barb > >Jim Norman: Thanks Barb, for a excellent thought, expertly crafted and clear to > its meaning. You have helped crystalize in my mind the words to express a > nagging "what's wrong with this picture" feeling as I followed this thread. I > couldn't understand why Hawk was castigated for simply expressing ideas. Jim Norman DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- Listen -up Barb and Jim, This is my list to run as I wish. I can expose myself to any idea I wish. If you believe that my and many others are "simply unable to bear the discomfort that can result from exposure to the ideas of others, and are especially confounded when those ideas directly challenge their own world view. " You are sadly mistaken. I do not have to, nor will I sustain promulugation of disruption and 'evil'. Racism and nazism are evil created by man. That is were evil comes from, man. IMHO Go look in the archives, Hawk and his psuedonymphette Charlene added very few informational posts and if you read their posts, most are very disruptive and dissension creating. All of a sudden the lIst was topping over its 100 a message limit everyday and there is still 'stupid' dissension and discussion going on. The utility of the list is a big concern, for with more traffic comes problems of time and functionality of the list and then dealing with the 'problem'. For the problem must be dealt with or one is left with the spectacle such as alt.conspiracy, which is awash with " ideas directly challenge" your "own world view. " So if you wish to challenge your world view then go right ahead. Go to alt.conspiracy and wallow. I have found nothing in nazism, racism and dogmatic theocratism that is worth discussing, except about what they are, wrong. And I have challenged my world-view many times. Go, back in the archives and read the record and while you are at it you may notice all what you two fine persons have contributed to our understandings. Om K >> I understand, some persons are simply unable to bear the discomfort that >> can result from exposure to the ideas of others, and are especially >> confounded when those ideas directly challenge their own world view. It is >> probably better that you filter, rather than overextend. >> >> Barb >> >Jim Norman: Thanks Barb, for a excellent thought, expertly crafted and clear >to >> its meaning. You have helped crystalize in my mind the words to express a >> nagging "what's wrong with this picture" feeling as I followed this thread. >I >> couldn't understand why Hawk was castigated for simply expressing ideas. > >Jim Norman DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.
-Caveat Lector- Hawk wrote: > > > Enjoy your Mercedes. Have a nice day. > > I will... or maybe the Cadillac... Gee If I were to get rid of the Cadillac, >would > it materialize in some African's front yard? > > Hawk Don't bother, I'm sure that someone will come and take it when they need it. Maybe they'll leave you a thank you note. Nah! Joshua2 DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
