Re: [Debconf-team] Transfering DC12 funds to Nicaragua
Gunnar Wolf wrote: Martin Schulze dijo [Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 12:00:16AM +0200]: If that's a quote, then a quote should be sufficient. is that also fine if thats in spanish? Oh dear! Please ask them to issue it in English. We issue donation receipts, receipts etc. in English as well, so should a company in Nicaragua, no? As a Mexican, I can assure you it is quite hard you will get a quote in English, sorry. Specially from companies not used to have international interactions. if not, how official needs the translation to be? That's a good question... I usually think positive, thus, I assume (hope?) that people at the Finanzamt will accept a printout (or PDF) that consists of both the Spanish and German/English translation of text as appendix to the quote/invoice. Would a Spanish document + translation + signature of trust on the transaction by one or several of us Spanish speakers do? I hope so. That said, just do it. If it looks sane it should be ok. Regards, Joey -- The only stupid question is the unasked one. ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Transfering DC12 funds to Nicaragua
Holger Levsen wrote: Hi Norman, On Freitag, 8. Juni 2012, Norman García Aguilar wrote: I would like to know what is the procedure in order to transfer DebConf12 money from SPI/FISS to Nicaragua. We are very close to DebConf12 and we need to pay some things. The payments we need to do are: [...] We have all the transfer information ready. We need to know who are the persons in charge and what is the procedure to make the request to SPI/FFIS. Thank you darst, I really don't know what is the procedure so that's why I'm asking, Acording to the budget: * The venue cost is 11,519.34USD, and we would like to pay 50%, which is 5,759.67. * The food cost is 15,675.00 USD, and we would need 50% before DebConf starts, which is 7837.00 * We need money to order bags and shirts, for those we have in our budget 3,600, we will need it all before DebConf. This give you a total of USD 17196.67. In FISS we have at this time EUR11247.69, with a exchange rate of 1.3 is USD14621.99, and we will need the USD3,558.25 we have in SPI at this time. All the money, as you may know, will go to ISIC, our legal representation here in Nicaragua for DebConf12. I'm not sure, or rather, I dont think, ffis can just transfer money to ISIC, without anything. So I'm cc:ing them. Indeed. That said, do you have invoices from the hotel, food, etc, that we can pass to ffis? That would be helpful. For such high sums the hotels should be able to issue invoices. Regards, Joey -- Every use of Linux is a proper use of Linux. -- Jon 'maddog' Hall ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Transfering DC12 funds to Nicaragua
Holger Levsen wrote: Hi, On Freitag, 8. Juni 2012, Norman García Aguilar wrote: We can give a quote from venue, food and t-shirt/bags, we will have the invoices once we pay. I think ffis needs the invoices _before_, or? Of course! Regards, Joey -- Every use of Linux is a proper use of Linux. -- Jon 'maddog' Hall ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Transfering DC12 funds to Nicaragua
Jimmy Kaplowitz wrote: On Fri, Jun 08, 2012 at 01:45:02PM -0600, Norman García Aguilar wrote: Nobody will give us invoices if we don't pay, at least UCA told us today that as a education entity (University) they doesn't have invoices, they will give us oficial receipt once we pay them, before that they can only give us a quote. And as I can remember, when I buy something, companies will give a receipt every time I make a payment and when I cancel the total amount then they give an invoice. So, we will not get an invoice if we don't pay, at least, we can give you quotes. I think the confusion here is merely terminology, for both SPI and FFIS. When you say quotes, do you mean something that means DebConf12 is obligated to pay .XX cordobas to us by June YY for the purpose of , even if there may be more payments in either direction later to finalize things? In that case, if you give each organization quotes, receipts, and invoices as they are available, it will probably meet all the requirements. Hopefully FFIS agrees - I certainly am less familiar with their needs than SPI's. If that's a quote, then a quote should be sufficient. Regards, Joey -- Every use of Linux is a proper use of Linux. -- Jon 'maddog' Hall ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Transfering DC12 funds to Nicaragua
Holger Levsen wrote: Hi, On Freitag, 8. Juni 2012, Martin Schulze wrote: I think ffis needs the invoices _before_, or? Of course! On Freitag, 8. Juni 2012, Norman García Aguilar wrote: Nobody will give us invoices if we don't pay, [...] So, we will not get an invoice if we don't pay, at least, we can give you quotes. And now? See the response from Jimmy and me. Regards, Joey -- Every use of Linux is a proper use of Linux. -- Jon 'maddog' Hall ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] DebConf payments
Richard Darst wrote: Joey, Is FFIS capable of making direct bank transfers (to Bosnia and Herzegovina banks) to pay for some of our hotels? I had heard that FFIS might only able to do reimbursements, not the initial payments, but Holger was not sure so I thought I would check. The amount would be on the order of 1000??? and to two different bank accounts, from the DebConf earmark. We can provide invoices and all the documentation you need for tax purposes. Then this should be doable. Please try to get IBAN and SWIFT codes. Regards, Joey -- The MS-DOS filesystem is nice for removable media. -- H. Peter Anvin ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] DebConf payments
If the receipient can provide SWIFT/BIC and IBAN codes, we can easily pay the bill. We'd require the bill, of course. A preview of the bill sent via fax to +49 441 777884 before the paper version is sent to us would be helpful. If the contry is not part of swiftland the transfer will take a while and require some paperwork. We've recently done that to reimburse a person. For this, we'd require the exact bank name bank address bank number if possible account number account owner Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 09:58:06AM -0400, Richard Darst wrote: Is FFIS capable of making direct bank transfers (to Bosnia and Herzegovina banks) to pay for some of our hotels? I had heard that FFIS might only able to do reimbursements, not the initial payments, but Holger was not sure so I thought I would check. While we are at it: I've the same questions for the French transportation company. In the plans, they will be invoicing me personally, I'll then pay them and ask for reimbursement to FFIS. But as we're talking of a bit less than 4'300 EUR, I'd very much prefer to have to pay out of my pocket (although I *could* do that if there is no other option). Please ask if they can invoice ffis e.V. directly. France is in SWIFT land, so paying would be easily doable via the online interface. I'd like to know if the above if possible in two different situations: 1) doing the direct payment assuming an invoice to FFIS is emitted; 2) doing the direct payment assuming an invoice to myself is emitted. I'd like to know both as I very much doubt that the French transportation company will be happy/able to emit an invoice to some non-French entity. This would be only possible for 1. Regards, Joey -- The MS-DOS filesystem is nice for removable media. -- H. Peter Anvin ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] DebConf invoicing / account setup
Hi! Richard Darst wrote: I'm working to get DebConf all set up. Can I have access to the DebConf11 earmark once it is set up? Holger will reply to this stating what access I should have (view access is the main thing I would like). I've never used the FFIS interface before, so let me know what you need to get set up, and any other instructions (my pgp id is 0xBD356740). Account created. I'll send you details in a private mail. This year, I'll also be involved in sending you sponsor invoices. Would you like all invoices to go only through me? How does this usually work? After someone send you contact information, do you send the invoices directly to the sponsor, or back to us to distribute to the sponsor? It's best to know beforehand who should be authorised. This can be a list of persons and doesn't need to be limited to only one person. For sending invoices we'll need the invoice data (name, address, sum, subject). We'll then create the invoices. We'll need to negotiate whether to send the invoice on paper or as PDF file, and if we send them to the attendee/sponsor or if he hand over the invoices to you. Both is fine with us and we've done both for different events already. For companies located in Germany it may also be of interest to receive a donation receipt after donating money. It is invoice XOR donation receipt. Regards, Joey -- The only stupid question is the unasked one. ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] DebConf11 earmark at FFIS
Richard Darst wrote: Joey (or FFIS treasurer), We are starting the DebConf11 process, and I was wondering if we could get a DebConf11 earmark created at FFIS? Also, could I get access to view the DebConf11 earmark? Holger can reply to this vouching for both creation and my view access... Sure. Who shall get access to the account and who should be authorized to acknowledge payments and reimbursements? Regards, Joey -- Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it. ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] DebConf11 earmark at FFIS
Holger Levsen wrote: Hi Joey the other people at ffis! On Mittwoch, 13. April 2011, Richard Darst wrote: We are starting the DebConf11 process, and I was wondering if we could get a DebConf11 earmark created at FFIS? Also, could I get access to view the DebConf11 earmark? Holger can reply to this vouching for both creation and my view access... Yup, he's right. Also we would like to have lea...@debian.org to have access (plus the Debian auditor, if there is one. AIUI currently there is none.) Done for zack and luk. If possible, we would like to have a DebConfX earmark created each year, where This is easy. the usual DebConf people plus the DPL/auditor have access. The creation should For this we may need a reminder. be done 2-6 months in advance, when we needed. Each year, this earmark should also be deleted (on request by us, approx. 2 months after the conf ended) and the money moved to the regular Debian account. That's fine. (Hopefully soon, I'll let you know what to do with the remaining DebConf10 earmark.) Please merge it with the Debian earmark/account now. If we have any other expenses to do, we will have to ask the DPL to authorize these spendings. Closing the earmark now will allow us to finally finish DC10 :) Done. Grüße, Joey -- Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it. ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Extra money we forgot we had
Richard Darst wrote: On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 01:19:57AM +0100, Martin Schulze wrote: No. You (leader@, auditor@) will need to do this on their own. If you want to keep track of the money separately, you'd better keep it marked Debconfn and give leader@, auditor@ authority over it as well. That is what I thought, and why I asked. Of course, the way to keep balances separate is to put them is separate accounts. It seems that with regards to Zack the question is rather if money should be tracked separately - as it has been in the past. Thus, I encourage you all to think about how the DebConf share of Debian money will be tracked. My first reaction is I don't want to be the one doing it. I was going to try to make better money management my goal this year, but if the safest tool for it is taken away, I'm not sure if I want to be the one attempting this anymore. You can always open your favourite spreasheet (sc, lscs, ocalc, gnumeric etc.) and track incoming and outgoing money. That's how we did this in the past before organisations like ffis were able to earmark money and provide a digital view to the money. How do you all imagine the DebConf/Debian money separation would work if accounts are merged? It seems that for Zack there should be no separation at all. Maybe you all should first discuss whether Debian and Debconf money should be tracked differently or whether Debian organises Debconf donations for Debconf are just donations for Debian. Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: The basic principle which is at stake here is that DebConf/Debian money should *not* be separated. There are two reasons for that: 1) sponsors donate money to DebConf because it's the Debian conference; 2) in past years Debian has poured into DebConf something like 70'000$ (very approximate number, reconstructed by others in the past on this list), if you want a sharp distinction, one might imagine Debian claiming back that money, which would be very unpleasant for everybody. At least a large part of it could be moved back to Debian... Getting back to your question, I believe that DebConf should be an event which, in an *amortized* way, costs no money. To cover up for the years in which the costs are higher than raised money, Debian money should be used as a bank for DebConf organization. To me this sounds more like it would would be helpful for you all if the money would continue to be earmarked differently in the future but that the Debian project leader and accountant should get a view to that money as well. In case that the conference doesn't end up with a sum of zero surplus money would be moved to the Debian pool. I case of a negative sum the leader approves to move money from the Debian pool to the conference pool. Keeping track of the cost year after year is up to the conference budget, which already exists and should allow everybody (including people outside Debian, for transparency) to see the income/outcome money year after year. Considering all this, I fail to see why merging accounts *at FFIS* makes thing any worse. It seems to me that it'll be easier for you to keep the accounts separate. The problem that you (leader@) doesn't have an overview on what's going on at the conference part can be solved quite easily by extending your account. There's one more thing that might help you in this discussion. Let's assume the accounts are merged. How do the Debconf organisers get to know the actual balance and can track incoming money? Either they get a view over the entire Debian money as well, or they query leader@ or auditor@ . Regards, Joey -- The MS-DOS filesystem is nice for removable media. -- H. Peter Anvin ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Extra money we forgot we had
Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: to know the actual total amount of reserves would need to check two accounts instead of one. Maybe it's easier to write this as relation like in databases: account/login 1 n earmarks for money The auditors account is totally separate from your account. Both can view some projects. They can be the same, but the could be different, they could also be several of which some are shared. I've made a poor choice of words above. account was not meant to be a synonym of login, but rather account in the bank sense, as in savings account. So what I meant above was that it would be handier if we could see the total amount of savings in a single table, instead of having to check 2 distinct tables and sum up money. Maybe I don't understand this in detail as (a) there is only one bank account for ffis used for donations, and that if your account is able to view both the Debian and the Debconf earmarking you do get one overview table with the sum of both earmarks and a total sum. To me this sounds exactly like what you are looking for. ... as I wrote, maybe I don't really understand the discussion. Regards, Joey -- This is GNU/Linux Country. On a quiet night, you can hear Windows reboot. ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Extra money we forgot we had
Hi! Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 06:28:38PM +0100, Martin Schulze wrote: To me this sounds more like it would would be helpful for you all if the money would continue to be earmarked differently in the future but that the Debian project leader and accountant should get a view to that money as well. AFAIK, this is what is already happening on the other side of the ocean (i.e. at SPI): money are all together, with specific DebConf earmark. I presume DebConf people could know the earmark by asking the SPI treasurer. The anomaly of the present situation at FFIS is to have 2 separate accounts, instead of the earmarking. No. We do have earmarkings, otherwise you won't be able to see anything. It's just that the leader account is limited to Debian and Holger's account is limited to Debconf. Maybe all you want to have is that the Debian project leader and accountant should get a view to that money as well. I already wrote that it's no problem to enrich the leader account with Debconf information. Note that the problem of two separate accounts is not only of visibility (although that is the most pressing one). The other problem is that I still consider that in case of some emergency---say $n servers failing tomorrow at the same time---Debian should be able to use DebConf money to buy back those servers, without having to wait for the authorization of the liaisons people for the DebConf account (which are not the same liaisons people for the Debian account). That's a political question you (DPL and Debconf orga) need to solve, nothing that can be solved technically. Current SPI setting allows for that, while current FFIS setting (i.e. the split) does not. Obviously, I hope something like the above will *never* happen, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be worried about similar scenarios. Sorry, but... Why didn't you just ask? The same is possible here as well - as I've outlined several days ago as well. So, is this all? Then all Debconf people need to do is (a) decide that leader@ and auditor@ should be able to view Debconf money as well - AND - (b) authorise leader@ for payments. Signed mails are welcome. Regards, Joey -- The MS-DOS filesystem is nice for removable media. -- H. Peter Anvin ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Extra money we forgot we had
Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: Current SPI setting allows for that, while current FFIS setting (i.e. the split) does not. Obviously, I hope something like the above will *never* happen, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be worried about similar scenarios. Sorry, but... Why didn't you just ask? The same is possible here as well - as I've outlined several days ago as well. Same reason as above: it shouldn't be me asking for that. That's rediculous. If you would like to have access and view, you should ask. We cannot process your request unless the Debconf people agree, though, howver putting them in Cc will give them a chance to agree and disagree. Two of them have agreed already if I remember correctly. So, is this all? Then all Debconf people need to do is (a) decide that leader@ and auditor@ should be able to view Debconf money as well - AND - (b) authorise leader@ for payments. That would solve the problems outlined in this thread, but it would still be worse than the merge, for a very simple reason: either me or the auditors, to know the actual total amount of reserves would need to check two accounts instead of one. It's clearly doable, but it's also clearly less handy than the merge situation. Nope. Maybe it's easier to write this as relation like in databases: account/login 1 n earmarks for money The auditors account is totally separate from your account. Both can view some projects. They can be the same, but the could be different, they could also be several of which some are shared. Additionally, keeping the separation will further the feeling in the community that DebConf and Debian are two separate entities, while they That's up to you. You don't need to tell the community that you're tracking money separately. You also don't need to try to get an even sum after each Debconf, however you wrote earlier that you would like this. Seems you are separating money already. All in all, I observe we're now re-discussing things from scratch---starting from Richard's mail---while at the beginning of this thread it seemed to me we agreed in going ahead with the merge. I'm sorry. I hope that I don't add more confusion. I'm only trying to help and offer possibilities and answer questions if somebody asks. Additionally, it occurs to me that you're discussing things that can be solved much easier than you think - or I'm unable to parse some of the mails. Regards, Joey -- The MS-DOS filesystem is nice for removable media. -- H. Peter Anvin ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Extra money we forgot we had
Clint Adams wrote:
On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 09:47:50PM +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
That would solve the problems outlined in this thread, but it would
still be worse than the merge, for a very simple reason: either me or
the auditors, to know the actual total amount of reserves would need to
check two accounts instead of one. It's clearly doable, but it's also
clearly less handy than the merge situation.
Is there a technical difference in the process of FFIS merging the
accounts versus the DPL assuming control of both accounts, authorizing
all the funds in the DebConf account to be transferred to the Debian
account, and then closing the DebConf account afterwards?
Yes. A lot.
The difference is between:
UPDATE account_details SET earmark = 'Debian' WHERE earmark = 'Debconf';
DELETE FROM account_authority WHERE earmark = 'Debconf';
DELETE FROM account_views WHERE earmark = 'Debconf';
versus
INSERT INTO account_authority (earmark,name) ('Debconf','Zack');
If there is, are there any legal implications to either option?
None.
Regards,
Joey
--
The MS-DOS filesystem is nice for removable media. -- H. Peter Anvin
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Re: [Debconf-team] Extra money we forgot we had
Holger Levsen wrote: Hi, On Samstag, 12. Februar 2011, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: So, if this is consensus (as I believe), it looks like the proper solution of merging DebConf FFIS account into the Debian one is just at hand. I'd like to receive comments on this. I agree and the comments below assume we have consensus on this :-) On FFIS side, I guess there is a single liaison person who is authorized to take decision on the DebConf account, is that you Holger? There were three people, Michael Schultheiss, Jörg Jaspert and me. Since this is a general decision, I assume that Ganneff and Michael are fine with joining the money? If yes, and unless there are objections, please ask FFIS to do the merge (noting down the DebConf earmark, which might come handy for future DebConf budgets). Ok, will do so in seven days to give people time to object. On Freitag, 11. Februar 2011, Martin Schulze wrote: No problem from our side. Thank you Joey and everybody at ffis e.V. for supporting us so well for so long! There are two options you may want to discuss further: (a) move Debconf10 money to Debian account or (b) keep Debconf10 money where it is and add permission to view it for leader@d.o and auditor@d.o (same for upcoming Debconfs) I'll keep my hands off until your decision. Regards, Joey -- Debian automatically detects USB sticks. This is so non-Debian. -- Joey ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Extra money we forgot we had
Hi Richard! Richard Darst wrote: On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 12:32:39PM +0100, Martin Schulze wrote: There are two options you may want to discuss further: (a) move Debconf10 money to Debian account If you did this, could you keep track of the money which was raised/spend for DebConf separately from the other Debian money? I think this would be one of the keys for DebConf accountability. No. You (leader@, auditor@) will need to do this on their own. If you want to keep track of the money separately, you'd better keep it marked Debconfn and give leader@, auditor@ authority over it as well. Regards, Joey -- Whenever you meet yourself you're in a time loop or in front of a mirror. ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] Extra money we forgot we had
Holger Levsen wrote: Hi, Joey, please comment on this, what options do you see for us? On Freitag, 11. Februar 2011, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: No, I cannot see *debconf* money at FFIS and that is the main problem I'm trying to solve. The same is true for auditors, which make the problem even worse. At the very minimum, I want read access to that money for me and the auditors. In the past Debconf organisators were different than the Debian project and thus money is not shared per default. If it is fine for Debconf people, you can get a view to that part as well with regards to ffis e.V. The same applies for the current Debian auditor. Moreover, as DPL, I'd like also to have write access to those money, just in case something bad happen and I need to pay something on those money. That's something you'll have to sort out with the Debconf people. All that considered, I would prefer if we can simply move those money to the regular Debian FFIS account and get rid of the DebConf-specific account at FFIS. I see no point in having those two separate. I agree. (Especially as we want to get rid of the (perceived) seperation between DebConf and Debian.) No problem from our side. Regards, Joey -- Long noun chains don't automatically imply security. -- Bruce Schneier ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
Re: [Debconf-team] DebConf10 - call for Location proposals
Holger Levsen wrote: Did you manage to put your frustration aside and prepare some nice press releases? Madduck is also working on press stuff here localy, you might want to wrok together :-) Press releases should contain news. Whatever has been distributed via d-d-a already is not new anymore. I do hope DebConf8 and 10 will be featured in the next issue of DWN :) What about contributing a proper paragraph to the issue? After all that was the reason to use the Wiki now and don't maintain preparation of the issues as I have done it over the years. Regards, Joey -- Whenever you meet yourself you're in a time loop or in front of a mirror. ___ Debconf-team mailing list Debconf-team@lists.debconf.org http://lists.debconf.org/mailman/listinfo/debconf-team
