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#ariatosca
undefined: [UPDATE] many more tests today, plus a fix to `/examples` due to 
extra strictness added due to a test-related fix.

i hope we can review the clearwater PR soon, as i'm starting to pile stuff that 
i need from that commit

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undefined: hey Weirdos
undefined: [UPDATE] added many more parser tests. delving deep into node types 
now, by far the most complicated part of the grammar.

there are a bunch of tests that i have to skip now, because though they fail, 
they have been fixed in the clearwater example PR. once that PR gets merged, 
i'll be able to rebase and remove the skips (the skips are properly marked). 
and, no, i will not rebase on the clearwater branch. i had a miserable time 
rebasing and then changing in the past... would rather wait for the merge to 
master.

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undefined: speaking of eclipse, i just experienced a partial solar eclipse in 
chicago :slightly_smiling_face: it's still quite dark outside despite being 
morning
undefined: we r gonna hit the peak in 3 mins here - and guess what thick cloud 
covers coming in - how awesome is that ?
 in other things, and some self-bragging here
 been accepted to do a talk at upcoming Machine Learning Conf in San Francisco 
this Nov
 
undefined: something is wrong with travis, it's not finding python 2.6 in its 
environment
undefined: [UPDATE] well, i found the main bottleneck for parser performance: 
even with a single thread, the ThreadPoolExecutor was quite slow due to how 
crappy python is with threading. so i created a BlockingExecutor which avoids 
threads entirely, and indeed that shaved a lot of time off the tests...

...unfortunately still not enough to fit within travis's 10 minute limit. 
:disappointed:
undefined: [UPDATE] ok, i figured everything out and have tests running 
successfully on travis.

so, apache's travis has upgraded by default from ubuntu precise to trusty. the 
trusty environment has two problems for us: 1) no python 2.6, and 2) ssh tests 
fail. for now i changed our travis config to force the use of precise, but i 
think we want to talk to apache about fixing the trusty env for us.

i also separated the parser tests into new tox environments: `py27extensions` 
and `py26extensions`. there's enough time for them to run there. also i think 
this may be smarter in the long run as we gain more extensions.
 note that my changes for `.travis.yml` are in my branch, not in master. but 
all you need to do to fix this is add the following line to `.travis.yml` in 
your branch:
```
dist: precise
```


#general


#random

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#ariatosca
undefined: [UPDATE] progress on more tests: types and templates, with fixes 
related to more little bugs i found, and improvements to the mechanism. the 
mechanism now detects "-v" verbose mode in pytest and emits more useful 
information per test. it's also possible to set "--tosca-parser=" to test an 
alternative parser (we currently only support "aria").

i'm a little bit concerned with how slow it all is. it might be worth profiling 
the parser at some point to find out where the bottleneck is. it's not a big 
deal for everyday users, but for tests it's a bit painful.
undefined: .. actually, more than painful. :confused: run locally in a 
concurrent environment, these tests are fast enough. but on travis it's very, 
very slow. so much so that our tests time out (10m+) and fail. so, i'm going to 
have to take a look at optimizing this somehow. :disappointed:

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undefined: I think splitting the JIRA there made sense.
Re live tests not fully working, perhaps create an additional JIRA for that?
 re PR, I'll try to go over it soon, however it contains lots of small changes 
or even formatting fixes which make it much more difficult to read through 
:confused:
I think it'd be best if you take whatever fixes you've made for issues you've 
found along the way and extract them to a separate PR so we could review that 
first and then in another PR review only the clearwater example itself.
undefined: ping
 no one to fix the website?
undefined: <@U5416JV9R> it might be best, but it's very hard. that kind of work 
takes an extra day. since in this case the clearwater changes are entirely in a 
different directory i don't think it's hard to see them.
 btw, i know we like to use github's diff tool for code review, but it's not 
such a great tool. i think using an IDE's is far easier (Eclipse at least has a 
very good diff tool). you can then just write your comments on github.
 <@U53NR8XFF> are you available to look at the website issue?
undefined: do you want to try using gerritt?
 errr review board is what we have 
undefined: in my view: eclipse  github  gerritt
undefined: also <@U5416JV9R> i did actually separate out all the work in that 
branch that was needed for ctx changes to a separate PR. it was a great deal of 
overhead ... it's always about balancing. this PR doesn't end up being very big 
at all: the "formatting" changes are just removing trailing whitespace from all 
our YAML files. lots of files touched, but trivial.
undefined: [UPDATE] began work on ARIA-1 - parsing testing suite. for now i am 
building the testing mechanism. my intent is that will be fairly pluggable, 
meaning that it will be easy to create a plugin for parsers other than ARIA and 
have them run through the tests.

i'm considering possibly using jinja templates to allow a bunch of tests to be 
written simply.

btw, not a lot of people know this, but ARIA has built-in support for jinja. 
any ".yaml.jinja" file will run through jinja and then be read as usual.


#general
undefined: do they _have_ to be anymore? From ApacheCon I thought I heard Infra 
say that  could be primary repo now...

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undefined: [UPDATE] a little bit of progress. fixes to the installation of the 
live tests (had to fight a bit with rvm, which is kinda like virtualenv for 
ruby).

for a sanity check, i tried to run the live tests on the clearwater all-in-one 
image supplied by the project. more tests succeed there, but there are still a 
few failing! so, something else is up... i want to reach a state where at least 
i can get the tests succeeding on SOMETHING.


#general
undefined: We have an Ozone channel here, and people without apache email id 
wants to participate in that. Is it possible to send invites to people without 
Apache ID ? The questions and discussion on 

undefined: <@U4QS5Q933> I think <@U4RAXBZ1Q> is the owner of this slack, and in 
turn would the the one who could make that possible.
undefined: Thanks I will ping <@U4RAXBZ1Q> in the apache JIRA in question and 
see what can be done.


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undefined: [UPDATE] well, i'm back on track at least and did some cleanups to 
the cloudify adapter, but have not yet created a ctx adapter

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undefined: [UPDATE] Finished reviewing the instantiation refactoring pr 
(ARIA-174). 

Created a document describing my current (and not final) constrains and 
concerns regarding service composition:

Later, as this document matures, I will share it with the our whole community 
for further discussion, and add it as a public resource.
undefined: [UPDATE] ugh, very dispiriting ... i was working for two days now 
trying to fix so many problems with aria-extensions-cloudify, but apparently i 
based my branch off the wrong branch, not master. :confused: so it was all for 
nothing. :(:(
 back to the drawing board ...
 meanwhile, i hope we can merge my PR on the ariatosca repo. can one of you 
verify?


#general


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undefined: [UPDATE] continued to go over the instantiation refactoring. It is a 
long review =). But it will be finished tomorrow.
undefined: [UPDATE] i hope <@U53FAA5HP> or <@U546PEP9S> can verify my fixes to 
the PR and merge...



meanwhile working on the cloudify adapter. well, it seems our tests there were 
locked on aria 0.1.0, and there have been a *lot* of changes since. so i'm 
working on fixing a lot of issues that don't yet have anything to do with my PR 
on the aria side.
undefined: i'm hitting an issue with aria requiring networkx 1.9, which 
conflicts with something in the cloudify layer ... HALP!!!
undefined: Sups
 [UPDATE] continued the review for the instantiation module refactory with 
<@U53FAA5HP> 


#random


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undefined: [UPDATE] started the reviewv with <@U53FAA5HP>  over the 
instantiation module refactory. <@U53P75YTD> I'd be happy if you could review 
it as well :slightly_smiling_face: 
undefined: ok, but only because you begged
undefined: _offended that none here begs me for anything_
undefined: please please please suneel graduate us from incubator
undefined: [UPDATE] started reviewing ARIA-174 (instantiation refactor) with 
<@U546PEP9S>. Continued researching the service composition feature.
undefined: 2 more releases and add atleast 3 more committers - i will do what 
it takes to kick u out of incubator (and out of Apache)
undefined: <@U4SCXA5DL> we'll create our own aria foundation and won't invite 
you! :stuck_out_tongue:
 [UPDATE] implemented the fixes discussed for ARIA-324. can somebody go over 
the new commit for the PR? 


meanwhile i've started working on the cloudify plugin adapter to support our 
new notation.

also, i took the liberty of briefly documenting this notation for the first 
time: 

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undefined: [UPDATE] A lot of progress on the instantiation module refractory , 
all tests are passing. It still remains to do some more cleaning up before it's 
ready for review.
undefined: <@U546PEP9S> did you see the comment i added to the JIRA? 

undefined: I have seen the issue. I think I may have encountered this issue and 
already fixed it, though haven't checked it yet. Will test if this behavior was 
fixed
undefined: great, you can use the template i provided for a test
 <@U53NR8XFF> after all our work on API documentation, we still don't have it 
up. how can we get it on the main website?
undefined: <@U53P75YTD> can you point me to the latest?
undefined: you need to build it via `make docs`. ideally there should be a 
trigger to do this automatically...  
does this.
 alternatively, if you have a script that updates the site, it could be done as 
part of the script everytime you update the site.
undefined: 
 Looking into this 
 Talk it looks like this in includes Python classes lists
 What am I missing?
 <@U53P75YTD> *
undefined: when you run `make docs` it will create an `html` directory there. 
that's what you want to  include in the site.
undefined: Okay, really cool, I'l add this to the website build process
 few comments
 it shows as version 0.2.0
 which probably should be 0.1.1
 Additionally, this is a project reference doc, we should probably have a 
developer guidance doc, that shows examples of how to use the the different 
functions we support.
 But we can add this on a later stage, I thing that at this point it's 
important to have a reference examples for the integration methods we proposed 
to ONAP (Python lib|REST|CLI Execution|Storage)
undefined: <@U53P75YTD>
undefined: in that case you don't want the latest -- you want to do a git 
checkout by the tag of the version
 we are missing REST for now, it is being worked on in a separate repo, but 
hopefully it will become a PR for our main repo at some point, in which case of 
course we will add that documentation
 as for developer guidance -- at this point it's on the wiki. there's 
definitely room to discuss unifying it all in one place.
undefined: That is what Dewayne is working on under his repo, right?
undefined: Correct
undefined: Cool
undefined: I'm looking now into gRPC, and this makes me think, would that be a 
good idea to use gRPC as an integration method for non-python languages like 
Java? To implement this we would need to implement a gRPC server within ARIA, 
and have Java code reference example of how to interact with ARIA, the server 
would probably expose similar calls as the REST API in first phase, so clients 
could build native object from ARIA parsed templates.  thoughts?
undefined: u can use gRPC or Jython or Thrift or Google Protocol buffers
undefined: yes, thrift is probably more common in the python world for such 
things
 but it would be INCREDIBLY hard to implement in any useful way, imo
undefined: u may have to account for the additional overhead of having to 
convert to an intermediate format
 and take a performance hit there
undefined: yeah, though i doubt performance would be the issue here for ARIA's 
use cases
 i think http/json (what we annoyingly and mistakingly call "REST" here) is the 
most portable for us
undefined: _hate python anyways from my recent exp dealing with python’s crap 
incompatibilities with python 2 and python3_
undefined: That's right, performance is not a major issue, but easy native 
integration with Java is critical as ONAP is Java
undefined: there can be a special java client for our "rest" api
 that's not a problem. there are many libs for that, that could automatically 
create the client via the swagger doc
undefined: A Rest api client in java can be done with Jersey, Swagger or many 
other libs
 we don’t need thrift for that
undefined: yes, "rest" is the right solution in our case
undefined: and that shuld be easier to do
undefined: right, rest is the simplest way, but that would mean we would 
probably have to develop a Java binding client, which I think we should try to 
avoid as it's not
 not a main focues
undefined: let me guess, <@U53NR8XFF> is now in USA somewhere on west coast
undefined: Nah, I'm a night owl, this is my research time, peace and quite next 
to armed duckdockgo window (because those searches are not going to hunt me 
tomorrow! )
 :smile:
undefined: i shuld switch to duckduckgo
 fuck google
undefined: super easy, just change your default search for Chrome
undefined: yeah i know
undefined: the similar UX makes you feel right at home :slightly_smiling_face:
undefined: but how relevant r the search results
 and the ranking of the results based on user prefs and behavior ??
 google does that well at the cost of being hunted
undefined: the main reason I switch was 

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undefined: <@U53FAA5HP> could you possibly write a short tutorial for running 
the openstack hello world in our wiki? i think you already have everything in 
that demo you did
undefined: Sure thing.
undefined: [UPDATE] very good news -- finally managed to install a working 
clearwater using ARIA. :slightly_smiling_face: the bug ended up configuring DNS 
for Bono (the SIP edge proxy) so that it can proxy to Sprout (the SIP server)

for now this is `clearwater-single-static.yaml`, which is meant to deploy to a 
single known machine. my next step is to get this to work with openstack, again 
with a single machine. and finally a complete setup in 6 machines.

if you're interesting in how it all looks: 

 i think once i get it running on openstack i might ask you all to help test it 
by making phone calls to each other. :slightly_smiling_face:

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undefined: [UPDATE] moved all of the topology related methods from the models 
into the instantiation module (which turned into a package). The reporting and 
exception handling mechanism is remain to be remodeled.
undefined: <@U53P75YTD> <@U546PEP9S> can you please subscribe to dev@ using 
your cloudify accounts?
undefined: ah, thanks for reminding us ... our accounts changed automagically 
today, i didn't even notice
 is there a way to change the current account subscription?
undefined: your email addresses changed?
undefined: yes :confused:
 gigaspaces has split into separate business units. long live 
!
 i'm going through ezmlm docs to see how we can do this
 is there a way for the admin to do this in bulk? this would affect all the 
apache mailing lists we are on ...
 apparently there is a "subscribe alternate address" command for ezmlm, but 
that's not exactly what we want to do here
undefined: I can unsubscribe you guys
 if you just subscribe your new emails
undefined: could you do that for the general mailing lists, too, or just aria?
undefined: what general mailing list?
 general@incubator
undefined: here are all the apache mailing lists i am on: dev@ariastosca, 
user@ariatosca, private@ariatosca, general@incubator
 since we are all in different timezones and some are on vacation now, let's 
not unsubscribe anyone, please. (the old @gigaspaces.com addresses will still 
work and forward to the new addressses).
 i will send everyone instructions on how to unsubscribe and resubscribe
 but i guess only private@ariatosca needs your explicit admin?
undefined: yeah
 do you know if arthur and ran resubscribed?
undefined: oops, just occurred to me that we cannot unsubscribe without your 
help :confused: because we can't send messages from the old address to ezmlm to 
unsubscribe :confused:
 i'm sure they did not, the change in addresses literally happened a few hours 
ago
undefined: would you mind dropping them an email internally?
undefined: yes, i will do that
 could you please then unsubscribe me from the following? i will resubscribe 
manually: dev@ariastosca, user@ariatosca, private@ariatosca, general@incubator
undefined: i can unsusbscribe people
undefined: ok, very sorry to have to trouble you with this nonsense. :confused: 
this change was not well thought out for these use cases.
 should i tell people to email you with requests to unsubscribe?
undefined: yeah please
undefined: ok, done. did you also approve/moderate the emails we sent to the 
list today from the new address, or should i resend those?
undefined: yes, i think i got them all
 hence why i came on here to remind you all
undefined: [UPDATE] some progress!

many improvements to the clearwater service template. i finally fixed the issue 
with the Ellis component: apparently i forgot to provision phone numbers. the 
UI error message was not so helpful here...

i also fixed an issue with the Homer component, just to remove a warning 
message about a missing python package.

i think i should open issues on the clearwater project itself for these things.

still, i cannot login to the SIP provider, so there's another issue to fix, but 
at Ellis is working...

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undefined: [UPDATE] still having issues with clearwater running, however while 
improving the template and scripts i have encountered a few bugs that i'm 
fixing along the way.

one of them was in the parser, in terms of dealing with overriding capability 
definitions from the parent node type. (a similar issue was with data types and 
interface types, which i also fixed.)

the other was in `ctx` -- it was broken for access to capability properties, 
which was actually a more general bug in instrumentation and path access. this 
work also prompted me to open a new related JIRA for ctx.
undefined: ... and also a fix to the `get_property` function

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undefined: should i encourage contributors on the mailing list to join the 
Slack channel for quick response to questions? or are we generally discouraging 
Slack in favor of email?
undefined: its best to keep all convos on mail lists  - yeah mails r annoying, 
but do that until u build a community and graduate to TLP
 ```Join me at  5th Annual Global Big Data Conference, August 29 - 31 - SCA. I 
am speaking at the event, and I want you to join me! Use promotional code 
SPEAKER to receive $200 discount on or before  July 27th by registering at 

Remember that you can always think outside the box for different types of 
Linkedin Posts that may better suit your target audience.

Double your reach! Use our Twitter handle @bigdataconf and official hashtag 
#GlobalBigDataConference in your tweets, and we will re-tweet it to our 
followers.```
 ^^^ shameless marketing - but yes i am indeed presenting there
undefined: nice congrats

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undefined: :thumbsup: 
btw <@U546PEP9S> <@U53FAA5HP> in case you're not on the `user` mailing list, 
subscribe to that as well (thats where we got the hello world issue)
undefined: happy birthday, <@U53FAA5HP> :slightly_smiling_face:
undefined: so many cancers around
undefined: [UPDATE] Started working on ARIA-313, fixing the mechanism of 
required inputs.

undefined: [UPDATE] not getting a lot done today in terms of debugging 
clearwater due to lots of meetings.

of interest: one meeting involved recording a podcast about TOSCA. will share 
the link here as soon as its posted!

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undefined: [UPDATE] i'm taking upon myself the assignment of our very first 
ARIA-1 issue, the creation of a test suite for the parser. i think we all agree 
that it's a big undertaking and there's no way i can finish it on my own, but 
the intent is to devote no more than 2 weeks to at least provide a basic 
framework and "sanity tests" that would make sure we don't break the essentials
undefined: [UPDATE] I created a release process documentation page on our 
Confluence, feel free to comment with any issues you might find 
:slightly_smiling_face:
undefined: [UPDATE] started the 0.1.1 vote on the Incubator's general list
undefined: [UPDATE] i started a new section on the wiki for ARIA's "extra 
features": 

 it's mostly done, except for the plugin page. feel free to make corrections 
and additions!
undefined: The terminology is problematic in some sections, e.g. "executor" is 
an ARIA concept different than an operation plugin
 the problem is its difficult to start making fixes without a more holistic 
view of the documentation as a whole
undefined: the next release, its better have another member that ain’t 
<@U5416JV9R> do it
undefined: :thumbsup: I simply took it on myself again because it was a quick 
patch version; next time it'll be someone else :slightly_smiling_face:
undefined: yeh undersood

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undefined: Measuring life days in 72hrs intervals sounds good to me, that'd 
make me at the age of ~10. I'd totally take it :grimacing:
 Can you explain a bit about what's gitbox, and more importantly, what problem 
do we currently have that it supposedly tries to solve?
undefined: I just finalized the voting thread, and will now finalize the release
I'll wait the 24h period required (for mirrors) before making an official 
announcement
thanks :slightly_smiling_face:
undefined: Can we have the gitbox discussion on list?
undefined: <@U5416JV9R> u can make the announce now, no need to wait 24 hrs
 <@U5416JV9R> without gitbox (and with present setup) this is how u would 
handle PRs - 
 on moving to Gitbox - this is how it would be done - see the section ‘Merge 
Pull requests’ - 
 yes <@U4RAXBZ1Q>. <@U5416JV9R> <@U53P75YTD> would one of u like to start the 
convo about gitbox migration on dev@ ?

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undefined: Thanks, I think I actually already did (not on `dev@`, rather on 
`general@`). If you think I need to clarify it further let me know 
:slightly_smiling_face:
undefined: we r fine now
 is it time to finialize the release yet ??
undefined: Technically the 72h are only up tomorrow at 2pm UTC
I assume we have to wait until that time is up..? 
undefined: well yeah wait until 72 hrs is up, life at apache is measured in 72 
hr intervals :grimacing:
 shall we start the discussion again about moving ariatosca to gitbox? 
<@U4RAXBZ1Q> r u ok with starting that discussion ?


#random
undefined: A reminder that this channel is for convenience only. All DECISIONS 
must be made or reflected on the public Apache mailing list.

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undefined: Indeed no git discussion was made, since it was fairly small PR. 
However, i agree we should write an approving message on the PR...
 Just saw your module, i think it could be a good idea to utilize it, but I 
think we do need to discuss the exceptions catching aspect of the DaemonThread 
(which i think is what you meant :wink:)
undefined: lots of topics to cover :slightly_smiling_face:
 1) Gitbox -- It might just be my unfamiliarity with it, but I'm just not 
really sure I understand the benefits it has to offer us? What's wrong with the 
current model? What difficulties does the Github mirror present?
undefined: 2) re `ARIA-300` and adding license headers on yaml files - This was 
actually shortly discussed on either slack or the mailing list way, way back, 
and it was my understanding that non-code files (such as these yaml files) do 
not necessarily require a license header.
This is why I added  a `.*.yaml` rule to `.rat-excludes`.
Note that if yaml files do require a header, then there are other types of yaml 
files missing it:
a) ARIA CLI configuration file - 

b) tests yamls, e.g.: 


I think if it's adding a license header to these files is not required, then 
we're better off without it, since it's a bit cumbersome for the CLI 
configuration file or a one-liner inputs file - But we can definitely add the 
license header if you think we should or if I misunderstood and they are in 
fact required there.


<@U4SCXA5DL> , if you do still want to add them, do you want to add the license 
header to the rest of the yaml files as part of this PR as well, and remove the 
yaml rule from rat-excludes?
undefined: 3) Regarding PR process and discussion - Completely agree with 
summarizing discussions that take place face-to-face or over phone on the 
mailing list - though I do think for the most part we have indeed made review 
comments either on Github (which should be copied to the mailing lists) or over 
Slack.
Do you think any further steps are required to ensure that the discussions over 
PRs are 100% public, e.g. a voting thread on each PR or so? To be honest I'm 
not really sure how this is done in other small incubation projects, so I'm 
personally open to any suggestions really
 4) Finally, thanks for everyone who voted! And (soon-to-be-)congrats to all of 
us :slightly_smiling_face:
undefined: <@U5416JV9R> i already added them to all of yaml files
 i’ll remove the yaml rule from rat-exclude
 know what, i actually agree with u that u don’t need license files in yaml
 i’ll close that PR and mark A-300 as ‘Won’t Fix’
undefined: :thumbsup: :slightly_smiling_face:
undefined: they’re example files?
undefined: yeah example files - and its not worth it adding license headers to 
yaml
 closing that PR und marking A-300 as ‘Won’t Fix’
undefined: done :point_up:
undefined: can examples be moved into their own repo?
undefined: <@U4RAXBZ1Q> i think there is a bigger question of creating a 
"manual" of sorts for using aria, which would include examples in context. 
right now these are more at a "hello world" level. also note they are part of 
the source distribution, not the release.
undefined: <@U5416JV9R> i closed A-300, u may want to respond to Justin on dev@ 
and clarify as to why the examples/*.yml don’t need a license header

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undefined: haha have fun :slightly_smiling_face:
 ill have a look at 260+287 soon
 <@U546PEP9S> care to take a look at 254?
undefined: Yupyup
undefined: is there anyway all of those Jira and commit notifications be 
redirected to a different mail box
 maybe commits@ariatosca..
 no offense to anyone but being notified of any commit/push amounts to spam….
 if something like commits@ariatosca.. is not already setup
 we can ask infra to do it
 QED
undefined: Hi smarthi, these messages are sent only to the issues mailing list, 
and to the commits mailing list (that already exists). Do you want them 
redirected only to the commits mailing list? In my opinion, the Jira mails 
seems relevant to the issues list also.
undefined: that’s fine then, its just me having to unsubscribe from both of 
them in that case
 sorry about that
undefined: Upon further inspection, the Jira mails are sent only to the issues 
list, and the commit mails are sent only to the commits list.
undefined: ok np, false alarm from me
 sorry
 thanx <@U53FAA5HP>, shuld start paying attn to emails more closely
undefined: <@U53P75YTD> Merged ARIA-287

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undefined: (p.s.: for the section about validating signatures, see 
 and 
 )
 (for the checksums, you can either use `sha512sum/md5sum`, or use `gpg 
--print-md MD5/SHA512 apache-ariatosca-0.1.0-incubating.tar.gz`)
undefined: <@U5416JV9R> when does the vote end for this release candidate
undefined: Wednesday July 5th 13:00 UTC :slightly_smiling_face:
undefined: ok the email calling for VOTE doesn’t say that
undefined: It says it'll last 72h, and emails have a receiving timestamp 
:sweat_smile:
undefined: yeah hard to pay attn on a long weekend
undefined: right, sorry, ill have the final time on the mail next time
undefined: [UPDATE] fixed and rebased my dangling PRs.

ARIA-287 - tox for docs. can't install latest Sphinx on py2.6, but that's OK 
because we really don't need to test doc creation on multiple environments

ARIA-260 - interface inputs. rebased and improved on the tests. btw, the test 
format i'm using there is close to what i hope a lot of our tests would look 
like: here's a template, here's the expected outputs, go.

ARIA-254 - multiple node support. this was a very painful rebase. :confused: 
git mangled a lot of stuff in models.

so, all three can be reviewed and merged as far as i'm concerned.

reminder that tomorrow is independence day in america, so i will sleeping ALL 
DAY.

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undefined: [UPDATE] new PR for ARIA-287 -- adding a tox environment for docs. 
this ended being much harder than expected, because in our tox environment we 
do not install fabric. it ends up being ridiculously hard to properly exclude 
documents from sphinx's piercing gaze ... many failed stackoverflow half-baked 
solutions later i cooked up something that works well.

so, basically if fabric is not installed the docs just won't include that page 
(and will also not show it in the table of contents).

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undefined: sorry, i know this is taking forever :disappointed: but i honestly 
did not expect so much breakage. python is just too dynamic, and not enough 
library devs know how to play well with these dynamics to ensure proper OOP 
behavior. the good news is that we only ever have to solve all these problems 
once.
undefined: Okay. Re service modifications models, definitely ignore them for 
now.
undefined: [UPDATE]

Very happy to announce a PR for our code documentation. It is a huge PR in 
sheer number of lines...

The resulting "User Manual for ARIA TOSCA" is thorough and enormous, and gives 
you a quick sense of just how big this project is. It starts with a section for 
the CLI (and eventually REST will be there), and then a deep dive into all our 
packages, modules, and APIs. I've divided the APIs into as many sections as 
make sense, though in some cases the pages are *very* big indeed. In those 
cases a added an extra "summary" at the top of the page that could make things 
easier.

There's a lot crossreferencing, though there will obviously be a few bugs. 
(Please fix when you find them.) All the TOSCA references lead you directly to 
the place in the TOSCA specification. References to standard Python types will 
lead you to the Python 2.7 documentation.

This is a good start, but we need some discipline in the team to keep this 
going. First off, there is a JIRA to add a tox test to make sure you do not 
break the documentation. But ... Sphinx errors only cover bad ReST, they won't 
catch sloppy formatting, and *don't* tell you if your crossreferences don't 
work.

Also, Sphinx is only ... partially automated. There is manual work involved in 
adding new packages, modules, and sometimes even classes (you might need to 
update those summaries at top of pages). So, we're also going to have to get 
used to editing the rst files in the `docs/` dir. It's not a lot of work, but 
if you forget ... your new code might not be in the published documentation! 
Basically, as part of code reviews for PRs I think we should also review the 
*resulting* built documentation before merging. We could use readthedocs just 
for this purpose, as it has tools for building on branches. Of course we can 
also find a way to create our own hook.

Very easy to build: `make docs` should do the trick.

Finally, the wiki I posted a while ago is already out of date. I learned a lot 
and will need to change some of the rules there. So, don't refer to the wiki -- 
refer instead to other code documentation in the repo.


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undefined: :thumbsup: just wanted to make sure. I'll add a comment on there 
then.
 Tal, understood, though keep in mind we can improve on docs in steps 
:slightly_smiling_face:
re `readthedocs`, I'm generally for it. <@U4RAXBZ1Q> note that we're talking 
API docs specifically - we'd also like to have fuller documentation on the main 
website (at some point). Though if it's a problem then I suppose having the 
sphinx generated output on the main website works too.
undefined: why not have both?
undefined: [UPDATE] i found solutions to all problems with documenting models. 
however it's going to be a lot of busywork to convert all of the docs ... this 
is going to be a fun day
undefined: [UPDATE] Had an issue today with some modifications made to the 
execution graph - mainly failed to have more than one dependency. we will merge 
the fix to master tomorrow.
undefined: [UPDATE] so, not done yet. :slightly_smiling_face: i'm working my 
ass off on this ... but finally documentation for models is close to complete. 
i did find one bug with association templates that i will try to solve 
tomorrow. but otherwise every single thing is documented, and looks amazing 
(except for service modifications, which i'm basically ignoring).

i've focused mostly on models and there are still some other parts that need 
some attention, though they won't have all the python craziness that 
declarative models present ... should be a breeze. hopefully everything will be 
done tomorrow and i can do a PR.

on the way, i found a small bug with instantiating substitution templates, 
which i fixed.

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undefined: Re: docs, Tal are you adding this to our new Jekyll site?
 <@U53P75YTD> ^^
undefined: <@U53NR8XFF> teach me how?
undefined: <@U5416JV9R> i will wrap up the documentation work today. in a way 
it is open ended and seems like i can go on forever improving, but actually our 
goals now are just to get everything to work consistently, and i'm nearly done. 
along the way i am hitting some "low-hanging fruit" that's easy to fix, but i'm 
*not* going through and documenting everything properly at this point.
undefined: yup :thumbsup:
undefined: ran: hm, perhaps i didn't see that code. if it works, we don't have 
to do that. but we still need to see about metadata
undefined: [UPDATE] unfortunately not done yet with documentation. there 
continue to be sticky issues. good news is that i found a workaround for the 
sphinx annoyance with automatically trying to cross reference types. i posted 
the fix to the github issue: .

the main problem is how to properly document our modules. my solution so far 
has been to use `:ivar:` (many people suggest this), but it's actually wrong. 
these are properties that are documented separately, so it causes duplication 
in the final docs. also, we've been having serious problems with people on the 
team not updating these -- and i don't blame them, because they are separate 
from the main docs. i'm trying to find a way to solve this elegantly... i have 
a good idea (i think) but it will be more work.

sphinx is ... difficult.

please be patient, in the end we will have really high quality documentation.
 <@U53NR8XFF> on second thought i think it will be better to post our 
documentation on . it's a very standard 
place for python packages, and it has a convenient hook that will regenerate 
our documentation and post it on every commit to master. on our web site we can 
just link to that.
undefined: I would rather not have the docs external

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undefined: <@U53P75YTD> re  
-- isn't the entry point `entry_definitions`? if it is, I believe we're 
already doing that. have you tried it?
undefined: [UPDATE] I've received answers today + over the weekend regarding 
the last packaging issues we had pending, so I spent today sorting through what 
was left.
The package name is now `apache-ariatosca` (NOTE -- you'll need to rerun 
pip install).
Binary package (i.e. wheel) will now contain required files for release 
(`LICENSE`, `NOTICE`, `DISCLAIMER`) when built via the Makefile.
Release packages on apache's dist mirrors will be manually modified to have an 
`-incubating` suffix. Release packages on PyPI will remain suffix-less.
 Tal, let us know when you're ready with the docs update jira, i'd like to have 
that in as well, and i guess then we'll try to build and set up a vote.

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undefined: congrats on migrating the website
undefined: [UPDATE] we now have resumable workflows - that is, every workflow 
is now resumable
undefined: hey guys, i want to make a suggestion: let's move the execution 
plugin to be an extension. i know it's an important default plugin, but 
especially with SSH support being optional now, it seems to make more sense to 
me. again, the goal is to keep the core as minimal as possible here.

it might also make sense for uses to be able to configure the default plugin. 
for example, i can imagine someone forking the execution plugin to use a 
different kind of SSH mechanism or a different kind of CTX proxy (if at all). 
these issues seem like implementation details for ARIA execution that some 
users might want to be different. some cloud environments, for example, might 
have a built-in execution framework that people would want to be the default.
undefined: +1
 doing more stuff in plugins makes your binary releases easier
 you can keep a stable core, release small plugins incrementally
 also makes everything option and avoid licensing problems
undefined: <@U4RAXBZ1Q> we would still consider this a "core plugin", meaning 
that it comes with the core distribution and has the same release cycle. of 
course the mechanism also supports "external plugins" that would come from 
other repositories.

the loading mechanism is identical for core or external plugins. the 
distinction is made purely to simplify project management and releases.

i think the way we handled ssh support is very reasonable. it is an extra 
feature added to core execution plugin via installing a simple package 
dependency. this is much easier for everyone than separating it into a separate 
code repository with its own release cycle. of course more complicated cases in 
the future might indeed demand separate repos.
undefined: [UPDATE] so, despite setbacks (computer failures) lots of progress 
on our code documentation.

there were so many sphinx errors, a huge mess of things, but i'm slowly 
marching through and making sure it at least generates.

`Click` decorated methods cannot be normally documented by sphinx due to how 
poorly their decorators are designed. i had some success patching them, until i 
realized it's just not worth maintaining a patch just for documentation. 
instead, we'll be using a sphinx plugin for click that generates cli 
documentation directly from the classes! it looks quite nice and is actually a 
much better solution. :slightly_smiling_face:

however (always a however) it doesn't sanitize ReST markup when it does this. 
so, for best results the cli documentation should be as neutral as possible, so 
it would look good on the terminal and good in sphinx. one weird edge case was 
the use of "*" in one helptext, which ReST interprets to mean the beginning of 
an emphasis...

more serious issues, as you might expect, come from sqlalchemy's declarative 
mechanism. i introduced one fix to make sure that at least the documentation 
will be generated, but otherwise the mixins create a whole range of errors. i 
think they might be related to this sphinx issue, which apparently was just 
fixed this week and might see a release soon: 


without that fix, we are getting a crapload of big red warnings, but the 
documentation is generated correctly.

i think i might be able to finish everything tomorrow, or at least over the 
weekend, but it's not entirely terrible right now.


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undefined: [UPDATE] fixed the bug on the ARIA-278 (removing core tasks) branch 
which caused the executor tests to freeze every once in awhile. Hopefully 
tomorrow this PR will get a review and we'll push it to master. This PR will 
hopefully clean up the code a bit and will enable resumable workflows in the 
near future.


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undefined: <@U4RAXBZ1Q> I tried using 
 but seems that the 
email doesn't get anywhere
 Does the alias exist?
undefined: Just saw it in moderation give me a few mins
undefined: or we have to manually create it
 oh cool
undefined: Busy watching <@U53P75YTD> pace around the speaker area
undefined: Is there a video stream or somthing ?
undefined: If I had to guess, audio
 This is one of the few rooms without video, but I haven’t been to many of the 
big data sessions.
 The wifi’s dropping out.
 I just moderated the message
undefined: meh apacheCon has no video recording
 make do with low quality audio
 is there a decent crowd for <@U53P75YTD> talk ?
undefined: There was video in my talk
 maybe its just a couple of rooms
undefined: they don’t have video recording in apachecons
 except for keynotes
undefined: Unfortunately very small attendance. Must have been competing with a 
more popular topic. Also didn't help that time slot was changed twice
undefined:  a big reason i hate apachecons
 they push u out so that some big honcho’s last min talk has a higher priority
 sorry to hear that <@U53P75YTD>
undefined: It's ok, even a little visibility is good
undefined: the problem is there r only about 300 attendees at any ApacheCon
 and they have about 7 parallel talks happening
 assuming that 70 out of 300 attendees r only there to enjoy Miami Beach
 and 30 of the remaining are organizers
 50 of the remaining are just there to sit in hallways
 u have 150 attendees who are curious about sessions
undefined: Yes, also the context was a bit awkward - it's not strictly speaking 
a big data project
undefined: and break that across 7 parallel sessions
 u can expect less than 20 people to show up
 and assuming that there is a Spark or TensorFlow talk happening at the same 
time as urs
 40 people go to that talk
undefined: If you knew all that why did you want me to come? :) J/k, exposure 
has to start somewhere
undefined: and so u end up with less than 10-15 people
 yeah i knew all this
 but this podling needed some little bit of exposure
 hence i pushed u guys hard
undefined: [UPDATE] removed runtime properties entirely, added a more 
comprehensive support for attributes 
undefined: <@U546PEP9S> this looks like the right move. how challenging will it 
be to convert plugins to using attributes? how are we going to solve the 
problem that attributes need to be pre-declared at the node types?
undefined: Which plugins are we talking about? The current solution enables to 
treat the attributes as if they were a dictionary (without .value) when 
accessing them from the operation ctx , this could be easily extended to 
workflow ctx. About the pre declaration, this is something we need to discuss​, 
the obvious way is to place some "workspace" attribute which is not very TOSCA
 Oh, and maybe more importantly, setting an value to an attribute is easy: 
`node.attributes['key'] = 'value'`
 Behind the scenes this would create a parameter 
 Note that `node.attributes['key']['inner_key'] = 'value'` would create a 
single parameter which holds a dictionary `{'inner_key': 'value'}`
undefined: I didn't have any plugin in mind, it's just what i heard from Ran... 
Your solution is correct, as long as there's still a way for users to 
access/change the type name and  description...
undefined: I was giving a try to <#C53MGE0DA|ariatosca> and I got:
```
$ aria --version
ARIA CLI 0.1.0
```
and the help
```
$ aria --help
(...)
Commands:
  executions Handle workflow executions
  logs   Show logs from workflow executions
  node-templates Handle a service template's node templates
  nodes  Handle a service's nodes
  pluginsHandle plugins
  reset  Reset ARIA's working directory
  service-templates  Handle service templates on the manager
  services   Handle services
  workflows  Handle service workflows
```
so, when I follow the docs:
```
$ aria parse blueprints/tosca/node-cellar/node-cellar.yaml
Usage: aria [OPTIONS] COMMAND [ARGS]...

Error: No such command "parse".

Did you mean one of these?
reset
```
any ideas?
 installed using: `pip install 
git+`
undefined: <@U53P75YTD> it is still possible, though I'm not sure it should be 
:wink: 
undefined: Well, users should be able to create new attributes or modify them 
dynamically. Or maybe set a value according to its type. Or print out the 
description in a log file.
 So how do you access the "raw" parameter model of an attribute?
undefined: From within an operation you can still do it, although it is a bit 
trickier...
undefined: Maybe it should be attribute_values in addition to attributes?
undefined: Its something like that
 It's just _attributes instead of attributes
undefined: <@U53P75YTD>: any ideas _how to fix getting started with ariatosca_