Re: 200-600x slower Dlang performance with nested foreach loop
On Tuesday, 26 January 2021 at 23:57:43 UTC, methonash wrote: clip That nested loop is an O(n^2) algorithm. Meaning it will slow down *very* quickly as the size of the array n increases. You might want to think about how to improve this algorithm. Nice observation, and yes, this would typically be an O(n^2) approach. However, due to subsetting the input dataset to unique strings and then sorting in descending length, one might notice that the inner foreach loop does not iterate over all of n, only on the iterator value i+1 through the end of the array. Thus, I believe this would then become approximately O(n^2/2). More precisely, it should be O( ( n^2 + n ) / 2 ). But that is still O(n^2), you've only changed the constant.
Re: Reflection on the book D web development.
On Friday, 20 November 2020 at 19:12:38 UTC, Alaindevos wrote: I bought the book "D Web Development". I understand only 20% of the book,the other 80% is way above my head. Compare, I own a book on flask development, and I understand 100% of it. Which means I can use dlang for anything except QT and serious web development ... Could you explain some of the things that you found particularly challenging about the book? What level of D proficiency did you have before you started with the book?
What is up with Vibe-d
So is Vibe-d still being actively maintained? I noticed there have been no new releases in a while, and the forums are a bit of a disaster (unless you love porn I suppose): https://forum.rejectedsoftware.com/groups/rejectedsoftware.vibed/
Re: Looking for a Code Review of a Bioinformatics POC
On Thursday, 11 June 2020 at 16:13:34 UTC, duck_tape wrote: Hi! I'm new to dlang but loving it so far! One of my favorite first things to implement in a new language is an interval library. In this case I want to submit to a benchmark repo: https://github.com/lh3/biofast I also think there is room for improvement in the IO, as I'm just using the defaults. Are you building with DMD or with LDC/GDC?
Re: This Right In: PLDI 2020 will take place online and registration is FREE. Closes on Jun 5, so hurry!
On Thursday, 4 June 2020 at 12:46:51 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: clip These caught my eye: https://pldi20.sigplan.org/home/SOAP-2020 (on the 15th) https://conf.researchr.org/track/ismm-2020/ismm-2020 (on the 16th) Before I checked out the first of the workshop links you provided, I thought it was about Simple Object Access Protocol, and I started having flashbacks of working with gSoap. Happily, it is about something else altogether.
Re: Bug in std.json or my problem
On Wednesday, 22 April 2020 at 18:23:48 UTC, Anonymouse wrote: On Wednesday, 22 April 2020 at 17:48:18 UTC, Craig Dillabaugh wrote: The crash is caused because the 'income' field with value 0.0 is output as 0 (rather than 0.0) and when it is read this is interpreted as an integer. Shouldn't this work? Yes, it's just buggy. Giving it a value of an even 1.0 will make it throw the same exception (js["income"].type is JSONType.integer), but a value of 1.1 will make it pass (.type properly becomes JSONType.float_). I don't know of a solution other than to check js["income"].type beforehand and use .floating or .integer as befits, or simply use an alternative JSON library (asdf?). File an issue if you have the time, maybe it will get attention. Unreported bugs can only be fixed by accident. I thought it might be worth filing a bug, but wanted to confirm if others thought this was actually a bug. I had encountered an identical issue with vibe-d years ago. Thanks for the feedback.
Google Summer of Code
I am pleased to announce that the D Foundation has been awarded 4 slots for the 2016 Google Summer of Code. https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/organizations/5078256051027968/ Congratulations to Lodovico Giaretta A replacement of std.xml for the Phobos standard library Sebastian Wilzbach Science for D - a non-uniform RNG Jeremy DeHaan Precise Garbage Collector Wojciech Szęszoł Improvements for dstep on their successful proposals. They faced very stiff competition, and unfortunately we had to turn down a number of very good proposals. Perhaps we should have been more greedy and asked for six or seven slots. I hope the community will extend a warm welcome to these students, and we welcome all of your efforts in helping these students achieve success in the coming months. Finally, thanks to all our mentors who put in hours of work in evaluating the proposals to this point.
Re: Mention GSoC on the front page?
On Thursday, 14 April 2016 at 11:05:49 UTC, Ivan Kazmenko wrote: Hi, I just navigated to https://gentoo.org (home of Gentoo Linux), and among the scarce news items on the front page, the topmost is about Gentoo and Google Summer of Code. It links to two detailed pages on how and why to get involved. The thought is: maybe GSoC deserves a place on the front page of dlang.org as well? It could fit under Contribute, or maybe a separate section closer to the top. Ivan Kazmenko. That sounds like a good suggestion. I've been doing GSoC stuff mostly on the Wiki, but having something on the main site would be good advertising for the future.
Re: D could catch this wave: web assembly
On Tuesday, 15 March 2016 at 11:56:40 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: On Monday, 14 March 2016 at 16:14:55 UTC, CraigDillabaugh wrote: On Monday, 14 March 2016 at 15:53:39 UTC, Joakim wrote: I can chip in general input on porting, based on my Android experience. Thanks. Dan or Ola ... are either of you interested in mentoring something like this? I haven't spent much time with the dmd compiler source beyond the parser/lexer and generally don't have much time in the summer season (we have farm), but I can chip in. Maybe you can provide the students with fresh vegetables then :o)
Re: D could catch this wave: web assembly
On Monday, 14 March 2016 at 15:53:39 UTC, Joakim wrote: On Monday, 14 March 2016 at 15:14:17 UTC, CraigDillabaugh wrote: On Monday, 14 March 2016 at 07:46:28 UTC, Joakim wrote: On Saturday, 27 June 2015 at 15:01:53 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: [...] You got your wish, they just exposed webasm through v8 a couple days ago: [...] I am still getting student interest in new proposals ... are you interested in mentoring? I'm not qualified to mentor a WebAssembly port, as I'm not versed on compilers or IR. Dan would probably be best, as he got a lot of the ARM codegen to work for iOS, try him? Maybe Ola would be interested too. I can chip in general input on porting, based on my Android experience. Thanks. Dan or Ola ... are either of you interested in mentoring something like this?
Re: D could catch this wave: web assembly
On Monday, 14 March 2016 at 07:46:28 UTC, Joakim wrote: On Saturday, 27 June 2015 at 15:01:53 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: [...] You got your wish, they just exposed webasm through v8 a couple days ago: [...] I am still getting student interest in new proposals ... are you interested in mentoring?
Re: GSoC 2016 - std.xml rewrite
On Tuesday, 8 March 2016 at 14:55:07 UTC, Lodovico Giaretta wrote: Hi! My name is Lodovico Giaretta and I'm a second year CS student at University of Trento, Italy. I saw on the D ideas page that std.xml needs a rewrite, and I also read a thread regarding this need (https://forum.dlang.org/thread/vsbsxfeciryrdsjhh...@forum.dlang.org). I'm willing to partecipate to this task (in fact, I'm already looking at some other xml APIs and sketching some ideas...), mainly because I find D to be a very good language and I think that a more complete standard library would surely help it to spread. What should I do to get in touch while waiting for the application period? Thanks in advance for your time (and your patience)! If you email me (craig dot dillabaugh at gmail dot com ) I can get you in touch with potential mentors (but I don't like posting other folks emails on here). Also, if you have concrete ideas feel free to post those on here if you want feedback.
Re: GSoC 2016 "GDC Project - The GNU D Compiler" project
On Monday, 7 March 2016 at 12:46:51 UTC, Abhishek Kumar wrote: Hello While looking into D language I found few Phobos standard libraries very interesting to work upon during GSoC.I will like to work on std.i18n or xml parsing libraries.I looked into Phobos github repositories but there's no issues section that I can work upon.Can someone help me with some beginner tasks?I'm familiar with GNU gettext and D language.I saw Mr. Andrei Alexandrescu as prospective mentor.How can I contact him? Thanks Abhishek First off, read the following thread: http://forum.dlang.org/thread/vsbsxfeciryrdsjhh...@forum.dlang.org For contact info you can email me: craig dot dillabaugh at gmail dot com Cheers, Craig
GSoC Next Steps
Not sure if this fits better in announcements, but I will try here for now. I need email addresses for mentors so I can add you to the organization (D Foundation). I can hunt most of you down, but it would be easier if you got in touch with me: craig dot dillabaugh at gmail dot com Also, if you are not currently listed as a mentor, but are interested I think it is still fine to add new names. Also, we should put together a selection committee to review the student proposals (once they are submitted). I will give some thought on how to come up with this committee, but any nominatios are welcome. Potential mentors should be involved in evaluation, but I would like the final 'selection' done by a group outside the mentors, since the mentors are to some extent in a conflict of interest (they will presumably favor projects targeted at their area of expertise). Cheers, Craig
Re: GSoC 2016 - D Foundation was accepted!
On Tuesday, 1 March 2016 at 15:30:26 UTC, Gary Willoughby wrote: On Tuesday, 1 March 2016 at 01:55:09 UTC, Jeremy DeHaan wrote: Hello everyone! I didn't see mention of this yet, but earlier today Google released their list of accepted Organizations for this year's GSoC. Guess what! The D Foundation made the cut! Thank you to everyone that worked on the proposals and application. This is awesome and you all are awesome! Now to get started on my own application... There's someone already here asking for help to get started with D. http://forum.dlang.org/thread/unjwimupfbeoopknq...@forum.dlang.org Thanks all for the kind words. Nice to see we got in, and hopefully we can make some positive strides for D out of this.
Re: Can I get more opinions on increasing the logo size on the site please
On Wednesday, 10 February 2016 at 21:37:29 UTC, CraigDillabaugh wrote: On Wednesday, 10 February 2016 at 16:26:33 UTC, Gary Willoughby wrote: clip Speaking of the logo, does anyone know where I can get my hands on a 256x256 PNG version of the logo (or at least larger than the website one). I need to upload it for the GSOC application. I know I can take the logo from the website and blow it up, but it is pretty small and enlarging it so much will result in a pretty awful looking image. OK, found the SVG version, so I should be good. Sorry for the noise ... you can go back to arguing about fair use :o)
Re: Can I get more opinions on increasing the logo size on the site please
On Wednesday, 10 February 2016 at 16:26:33 UTC, Gary Willoughby wrote: Can I get more opinions on increasing the logo size on the website please. See here for an example: https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/1227 Destroy! Speaking of the logo, does anyone know where I can get my hands on a 256x256 PNG version of the logo (or at least larger than the website one). I need to upload it for the GSOC application. I know I can take the logo from the website and blow it up, but it is pretty small and enlarging it so much will result in a pretty awful looking image.
Re: Google Summer of Code 2016
On Sunday, 7 February 2016 at 12:14:24 UTC, Dragos Carp wrote: On Saturday, 6 February 2016 at 20:18:57 UTC, Craig Dillabaugh wrote: Anyone interested and capable of mentor a student interested in doing FlatBuffers for D. I could do that. Currently, as a side project, I'm working on adding D support for Protocol Buffers v3 [1]. Main goals of the new design: - integration in the upstream project - simple readable generated code - range based solution Of course, the same can be applied for the FlatBuffers. [1] https://github.com/dcarp/protobuf/tree/dlang_support Awesome! Thanks. I will write up something on the idea's page in the next day or two (which you are welcome to edit of course). Also, if a student were interested in working on Protocol Buffers, would there be opportunities there too? I also ask Mentor's to write a little bit about themselves on the mentor's page: http://wiki.dlang.org/GSOC_mentors
Re: TIOBE February 2016.... 15 ?!
On Wednesday, 3 February 2016 at 08:00:20 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: On Wednesday, 3 February 2016 at 07:50:07 UTC, cym13 wrote: Also I find showing even little achievements good for the troop's morale. Well, it is better to have good information. If you zoom in on the link above you'll see some interesting facts on daily patterns. The Swift and Go graph go way down in weekends, so they are used by businesses. Rust does not, so it currently is appealing to hobbyists. D should think about capturing some of that Rust audience. What is important is to be realistic, so that a good strategy can be selected. Right now Rust may have 10x more interest than D, and C++ 40x more interest than Rust. Just a guesstimate based on search frequencies, but it stacks up with github. C++ is likely searched the most because every time you need to do anything non-trivial you need to go on Stack Overflow or a similar site and find out how to do it, because there is very little chance you would ever be able to figure out the syntax on your own :o)
Re: Pre-alpha D language online tour
On Tuesday, 26 January 2016 at 13:48:57 UTC, Mengu wrote: On Tuesday, 26 January 2016 at 10:30:17 UTC, André wrote: On Monday, 25 January 2016 at 21:53:26 UTC, Guillaume Piolat wrote: [...] Thank you very much for going through the content! I integrated your comments and they will be online very soon. I added a paragraph for __gshared in the storage classes section and I added a sentence to emphasize that slices and dynamic arrays are the same. I am not sure about the latter so I might revise it after sleeping some days on it :-) Thanks again! - André let's put it on github and let everyone contribute and make things easier for you. :) It is on Github (see post #1)
Re: Google Summer of Code 2016
On Monday, 18 January 2016 at 16:16:01 UTC, Craig Dillabaugh wrote: On Thursday, 31 December 2015 at 23:58:32 UTC, Craig Dillabaugh wrote: The deadline for the Google Summer of Code, 2016 is February 19th. Which means we have about a month and a half to put something together. For the time being I've recycled last years projects (with one dropped so far): http://wiki.dlang.org/GSOC_2016_Ideas#Ideas Craig Just trying to keep GSOC on the front page ... If you have your name attached to a project currently on our list please let me know if you can't mentor this year. I am starting to get some inquires for students about projects (just had one about DDT), and it would be bad is some project that is currently on the list disappeared between now and mid-February. So I would rather clean up any projects that we can't go ahead with now. I can't believe I let this slip all the way to page 4 :o) GSOC organization deadline is 3.5 weeks away, and while there have been a few ideas proposed here, we don't have too much that is concrete. I will try and get to work on filling in the idea's page with what we have so far, but still need more ideas from the community. Note, if you have an idea you also need to either be able to mentor, or even better, volunteer someone else. For the time being the following people are listed as potential mentors for projects already on the idea's page (from last year): Andrei Alexandrescu Iain Buclaw Bruno Medeiros Jens Mueller Martin Nowak Jacob Ovrum Amaury Sechet Russel Winder I would like to get confirmation from each of you if you can mentor this year (and if your name is attached to a project, can that still be a go). If I don't have confirmation I will have to drop the mentor/project, as it would look really bad if students submit proposals and we end up saying "Oh, sorry that individual can't really mentor you ... maybe you should try something Rust related." Cheers Craig
Re: Google Summer of Code 2016
On Wednesday, 6 January 2016 at 13:28:56 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2016-01-05 23:28, Laeeth Isharc wrote: What do you think about the idea of building higher-level bindings for Apple mobile + Android as a project, now that the compiler itself is at a useful stage of development? D has only basic support for interfacing with Objective-C, there's more in the works. I assume, based on my limited knowledge, that this would likely be two separate projects then: - bindings for Android - bindings for Apple Mobile Would a GSOC project be helpful in moving the Objective-C work forward.
Re: Google Summer of Code 2016
On Tuesday, 5 January 2016 at 22:28:40 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote: On Monday, 4 January 2016 at 22:58:43 UTC, CraigDillabaugh wrote: On Thursday, 31 December 2015 at 23:58:32 UTC, Craig Dillabaugh wrote: The deadline for the Google Summer of Code, 2016 is February 19th. Which means we have about a month and a half to put something together. For the time being I've recycled last years projects (with one dropped so far): http://wiki.dlang.org/GSOC_2016_Ideas#Ideas What do you think about the idea of building higher-level bindings for Apple mobile + Android as a project, now that the compiler itself is at a useful stage of development? I generally don't take a stand one way or the other on the projects, but rather let the community chime in, since in many cases (like this one) I am not terribly familiar with the problem space. So any opinions on this project idea are welcomed. Would you be willing to mentor such a project, or put together an outline (see the ideas page for some examples) of what the project would look like? If the community likes the project idea, but you can't mentor it then perhaps we can find someone who would be.
Re: Google Summer of Code 2016
On Thursday, 31 December 2015 at 23:58:32 UTC, Craig Dillabaugh wrote: The deadline for the Google Summer of Code, 2016 is February 19th. Which means we have about a month and a half to put something together. For the time being I've recycled last years projects (with one dropped so far): http://wiki.dlang.org/GSOC_2016_Ideas#Ideas Since we were rejected with, more or less, the same set of proposals last year it seems unlikely we would succeed this year with the same lineup. So some new ideas (or some refreshing of the existing ideas) would be helpful. clip Happy New Year to everyone. Craig Just bumping my own thread here. Is there any interest is doing a GSOC application this year within the community? I don't mind doing the admin work, but having even a couple of solid new ideas for projects would improve the odds of a successful application.
Re: LDC with Profile-Guided Optimization (PGO)
On Tuesday, 22 December 2015 at 14:49:51 UTC, Johan Engelen wrote: On Tuesday, 15 December 2015 at 23:05:38 UTC, Johan Engelen wrote: Hi all, I have been working on adding profile-guided optimization (PGO) to LDC [1][2][3]. At this point, I'd like to hear your input and hope you can help with testing! Unfortunately, to try it out, you will need to build LDC with LLVM3.7 yourself. PGO should work on OS X, Linux, and Windows. Would it help if binaries are available? Or is general interest low? -Johan Maybe many folks reading your post don't know what PGO is? Perhaps you need to do a bit of a sales job to convince folks that it is pretty cool, and worth trying out. Craig
Re: Complexity nomenclature
On Friday, 4 December 2015 at 13:58:50 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 12/03/2015 10:46 PM, Walter Bright wrote: On 12/3/2015 5:27 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Now this primitive may have three complexities: Looks exaggerated, innit? The fact of the matter is people choose collections based on the complexity of their operations all the time. "I need to insert and remove at the front, so I'll use a list here." Or: "I need random access, I'll use a vector" etc. Andrei My personal preference would be not to have the complexity in the names, as I prefer shorter/concise names. Typically when I am writing code using containers of any sort I will check the documentation to determine what the cost of the operations I need is and base my choice off of that. I would think (hope) most others do this too. However, I don't have a strong objection to the what is being proposed. Would you have an insertLogarithmic ( insertInverseAckerman :o) too?
Re: benchmark on binary trees
On Friday, 4 December 2015 at 14:06:26 UTC, Alex wrote: Hi everybody, this is going to be a learning by doing a benchmark test - post. clip 3. The compilation was done by: dmd -O -release -boundscheck=off [filename.d] Is there anything else to improve performance significantly? If you have access to LDC or GDC they typically produce significantly faster code.
Re: I hate new DUB config format
On Wednesday, 2 December 2015 at 20:45:33 UTC, Idan Arye wrote: On Wednesday, 2 December 2015 at 16:15:04 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: [...] The issue is not with humans reading and writing SDLang files - like you said, the syntax is not hard, and besides - the default should be enough for most of the basic learning projects one can make, so by the time you actually need to edit dub.sdl you should know enough D to not be learning two things at once. [...] Where you looking for this: https://github.com/ikayzo/SDL.rb
Re: Three people out of four dislike SDL
On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 19:15:25 UTC, Bubbasaur wrote: On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 19:05:38 UTC, CraigDillabaugh wrote: (S)onke (D)on't (L)ike JSON Hey, you can make all joke you want, but please don't be harsh with Sonke, because his contribution is awesome, and back then, he asked for direction and people pointed SDLang. Bubba. Sorry if that came off as a dig at Sonke, it was not intended as such. I prefer SDL to JSON and thus was very happy with his decision, so I consider myself one of his supporters in this case ... and it just happened to fit with SDL.
Re: This Week in D
On Monday, 30 November 2015 at 20:07:10 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: I'll change it to "thread" on the front page. How about "Epic Bikeshedding Thread"?
Re: Three people out of four dislike SDL
On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 18:25:06 UTC, Bubbasaur wrote: On Tuesday, 1 December 2015 at 17:26:13 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: clip So if you take a look right now, the "YES" option for the question: "Do you like new DUB config format?" Is somehow "magically" winning the poll right now! Bubba. Hooray, way to go SDLang!! I think what SDL needs is a re-branding! A few options: (S)imple (D)ead (L)anguage (D)ead (S)imple (L)anguage (Google's not going to like that either) (S)onke (D)on't (L)ike JSON
Re: And here's another interesting algorithm/structure: Randomized Slide to Front
On Monday, 30 November 2015 at 21:33:31 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Now that we got talking about searching in arrays, allow me to also share an idea I've had a short while ago. [...] Perhaps some strategy similar to Working Sets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iacono's_working_set_structure would work (or inspired by the same idea). You move the element from where it is found to T_1, move a random element from T_1 to T_2, from T_2 to T_3 and so on to T_i. In this case rather than trees you would have lists. Maybe that has poor cache locality properties though.
Re: Gradle, Mave, etc. [was I hate new DUB config format]
On Monday, 30 November 2015 at 18:56:58 UTC, Russel Winder wrote: On Sun, 2015-11-29 at 22:38 +, Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d wrote: But this might be just a bikeshed issue. I have no intention of giving up on Gradle and SCons, I am intransigent. :-) If it is a bikeshed issue then it will feel right at home in this thread.
Re: I hate new DUB config format
On Thursday, 26 November 2015 at 20:56:04 UTC, Bruno Medeiros wrote: On 26/11/2015 12:53, Daniel Kozak via Digitalmars-d wrote: V Thu, 26 Nov 2015 12:43:52 + Chris via Digitalmars-dnapsáno: On Thursday, 26 November 2015 at 12:29:55 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: [...] TOML looks nice, _but_ it's version 0.4.0. We cannot afford to maintain a parser for a format that hasn't "settled down" yet. Ok, but we can afford to mantain a parser for a dead format? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Simple_Declarative_Language BAM!! *Daniel drops mike, walks way* (well said) Isn't it easier to maintain a parser for a dead format than a living one? You know it won't change ... after all, its dead!
Re: Google Summer of Code 2016 Ideas Page
On Friday, 6 November 2015 at 14:20:54 UTC, Gerald Jansen wrote: On Friday, 6 November 2015 at 13:53:25 UTC, CraigDillabaugh wrote: On Friday, 6 November 2015 at 09:07:36 UTC, Gerald Jansen wrote: [...] Would you be interested in mentoring that? Also, for anything Phobos related it would be good to have general consensus that the project would eventually make its way into std.experimental at least. The discussion you linked to proposed the idea, but there wasn't much follow on. Perhaps a proposal should be floated on the General thread. I am still in D kindergarten and this is way out of my depth. Sorry for the noise. No need to apologize. Maybe if you can't do it, we can find someone who would .. but I always ask as a matter of principle :o)
Re: Google Summer of Code 2016 Ideas Page
On Friday, 6 November 2015 at 08:47:48 UTC, FreeSlave wrote: On Friday, 6 November 2015 at 03:17:59 UTC, Craig Dillabaugh wrote: The ideas page for the 2016 Google Summer of Code is now up: http://wiki.dlang.org/GSOC_2016_Ideas Right now it is remarkably similar to the 2015 page! The Google folks seem rather busy, so maybe no one would notice, but if anyone has ideas for new projects that would be fantastic. Also, if anyone feels an existing project needs to be withdrawn, please let me know. Cheers, Craig Cool, I did not know there're plans for std.i18n. By the way, I'm not student anymore, so no GSOC for me. But now you can be a mentor :o)
Re: Google Summer of Code 2016 Ideas Page
On Friday, 6 November 2015 at 03:19:58 UTC, Rikki Cattermole wrote: On 06/11/15 4:17 PM, Craig Dillabaugh wrote: The ideas page for the 2016 Google Summer of Code is now up: http://wiki.dlang.org/GSOC_2016_Ideas Right now it is remarkably similar to the 2015 page! The Google folks seem rather busy, so maybe no one would notice, but if anyone has ideas for new projects that would be fantastic. Also, if anyone feels an existing project needs to be withdrawn, please let me know. Cheers, Craig Please withdraw Cmsed. I've since stopped working on it. In favor of writing a web application server. Which should solve most of the problems it had. Will do!
Re: Google Summer of Code 2016 Ideas Page
On Friday, 6 November 2015 at 09:07:36 UTC, Gerald Jansen wrote: On Friday, 6 November 2015 at 03:17:59 UTC, Craig Dillabaugh wrote: The ideas page for the 2016 Google Summer of Code is now up: http://wiki.dlang.org/GSOC_2016_Ideas Concerning "Phobos: D Standard Library", specifically std.parallel, how about "a fork()-backend to std.process OR std.parallel" as mentioned in this post [1]. [1] http://forum.dlang.org/post/lpktvvgesolvoprjw...@forum.dlang.org Would you be interested in mentoring that? Also, for anything Phobos related it would be good to have general consensus that the project would eventually make its way into std.experimental at least. The discussion you linked to proposed the idea, but there wasn't much follow on. Perhaps a proposal should be floated on the General thread.
Re: looking for sdl2 based application skeleton
On Thursday, 5 November 2015 at 07:26:08 UTC, drug wrote: It seems to me I saw somewhere the project like this. I don't want to make another one if there is something like that. Where you thinking of Derelict? https://github.com/DerelictOrg/DerelictSDL2 or perhaps Dgame: https://github.com/Dgame/Dgame Craig
Re: GSoC 2016 announced - time to put things in motion!
On Thursday, 15 October 2015 at 09:01:54 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Hi folks, I recall we've had good pent-up work accumulating for GSoC 2016 and there was a lot of initiative from Craig Dillabaugh and others. Here it is! http://g.co/gsoc Andrei I will try and get the GSOC 2016 Idea's page up in the next few weeks. It will likely look a lot like the 2015 page. Then I will start harassing you all for ideas.
Re: DUB 0.9.24 release
On Sunday, 20 September 2015 at 19:36:13 UTC, Sönke Ludwig wrote: Getting close to the 1.0.0 milestone, this release implements all of the major missing features except for a reviewed/cleaned up D API. The most important changes in this release are: clip Download: http://code.dlang.org/download Change log: https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dub/blob/master/CHANGELOG.md [1]: https://github.com/Abscissa/SDLang-D/ [2]: http://code.dlang.org/package-format?lang=sdl [3]: http://code.dlang.org/docs/commandline Thanks for all your hard work. The SDLang looks good, and the improved documentation is attractive.
Re: Speeding up text file parser (BLAST tabular format)
On Monday, 14 September 2015 at 12:30:21 UTC, Fredrik Boulund wrote: Hi, This is my first post on Dlang forums and I don't have a lot of experience with D (yet). I mainly code bioinformatics-stuff in Python on my day-to-day job, but I've been toying with D for a couple of years now. I had this idea that it'd be fun to write a parser for a text-based tabular data format I tend to read a lot of in my programs, but I was a bit stomped that the D implementation I created was slower than my Python-version. I tried running `dmd -profile` on it but didn't really understand what I can do to make it go faster. I guess there's some unnecessary dynamic array extensions being made but I can't figure out how to do without them, maybe someone can help me out? I tried making the examples as small as possible. Here's the code D code: http://dpaste.com/2HP0ZVA Here's my Python code for comparison: http://dpaste.com/0MPBK67 clip I am going to go off the beaten path here. If you really want speed for a file like this one way of getting that is to read the file in as a single large binary array of ubytes (or in blocks if its too big) and parse the lines yourself. Should be fairly easy with D's array slicing. I looked at the format and it appears that lines are quite simple and use a limited subset of the ASCII chars. If that is in fact true then you should be able to speed up reading using this technique. If you can have UTF8 chars in there, or if the format can be more complex than that shown in your example, then please ignore my suggestion.
Re: Current state of GUI's
On Thursday, 3 September 2015 at 13:21:45 UTC, motaito wrote: On Thursday, 3 September 2015 at 12:51:18 UTC, CraigDillabaugh wrote: Not sure of its current state, but you should check out DOtherSide: https://github.com/filcuc/DOtherSide Thanks for the link. I will take a closer look at it. But does this also mean, that there is no "built in" GUI solution for D? No there is no standard D GUI. There are lots of efforts by different community members like DWT (https://github.com/d-widget-toolkit/dwt). I pointed you to DOtherSide because of all the GUI's I've heard of it seemed the closest to what you are looking for. I think DWT is the most complete of the D GUI libraries available though. I think part of the issues is that there is no strong consensus in the community as to what form a D GUI would take, through there is certainly a lot of discussion.
Re: Current state of GUI's
On Thursday, 3 September 2015 at 12:19:25 UTC, motaito wrote: Hi, I haven't used D before and wanted to take a closer look at it. However, there are a few things that keep me from doing so. Most notably I am somewhat confused about the state of GUI's. I have looked at a couple projects and online resources, but the resources I found seam to be quite outdated. Sorry in advance, if I have missed some update on the topic. I wanted to ask, if there is something in the workings (or already done) to provide a standard way to create GUI's. Something supported by D, not an independent project. Independent projects tend to scare me away, as they almost always get abandoned at some point. I am looking for a cross platform (Windows, Linux, BSD) solution. [...] Not sure of its current state, but you should check out DOtherSide: https://github.com/filcuc/DOtherSide
Re: Dazz new description for D
On Monday, 31 August 2015 at 07:47:29 UTC, ponce wrote: On Monday, 31 August 2015 at 07:38:18 UTC, Enamex wrote: Some posters on reddit remarked that D's sales pitch on the website is unnecessarily long and unindicative. I'm only making a suggestion; suggest others or comment on this one: D is a multiparadigm systems programming language with excellent static introspection that lets you choose exactly what to pay for. D is a joy to write and easy to maintain: it's systems scripting with native performance. Turned out too long :/ "D is the crack heroin of programming language. The first dose is free." This one gets my vote ... however did you mean 'crack cocaine'?
Re: Moving forward with work on the D language and foundation
On Monday, 24 August 2015 at 18:43:01 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Hello everyone, Following an increasing desire to focus on working on the D language and foundation, I have recently made the difficult decision to part ways with Facebook, my employer of five years and nine months. Facebook has impacted my career and life very positively, and I am grateful to have been a part of it for this long. The time has come for me, however, to fully focus on pushing D forward. As sorry I am for leaving a good and secure career behind, I am excited many times over about the great challenges and opportunities going forward. Next step with the D Language Foundation is a formal talk with the foundation's prospective attorney tomorrow. I hope to get the foundation in motion as soon as possible, though I'm told there are numerous steps to complete. I will keep this forum posted about progress. I'm also glad to announce that the D Language Foundation already has a donor - I have decided to contribute my books' royalties to it. I encourage others to respond in kind. Thanks, Andrei As many others have said, I respect your courageous decision to leave a secure job at Facebook. Very best of luck with your move to the D Language Foundation. It has been a very exciting week for the D language.
Re: std.data.json formal review
On Thursday, 13 August 2015 at 03:44:14 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 8/12/2015 10:10 AM, deadalnix wrote: Thing is, the schema is not always known perfectly? Typical case is JSON used for configuration, and diverse version of the software adding new configurations capabilities, or ignoring old ones. Hah, I'd like to replace dmd.conf with a .json file. Not .json! No configuration file should be in a format that doesn't support comments.
Re: D for Game Development
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 14:18:21 UTC, Brandon Ragland wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:44:41 UTC, deadalnix wrote: On Thursday, 30 July 2015 at 13:43:35 UTC, karabuta wrote: D is really cool and makes a good candidate for developing a game. Are there any guys out there using D for indie games? For some time I have been seeing some cool game engine being developed in the DUB repo. What more is happening? I don't see derelictSDl and derelictSFML activities much. Whatup? GC's up. Minecraft, written in java which has a GC does perfectly fine. A GC is not a reason a game cannot be developed. Look at how many browser-based games there are, which use a GC somewhere from the interpreted Flash or JS. Minecraft is a dog though ... I always have to kill my kids ongoing game if I ever want to do any real work on the same machine.
Re: Dynamic memory
On Tuesday, 28 July 2015 at 17:26:39 UTC, Binarydepth wrote: On Tuesday, 28 July 2015 at 17:07:47 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On 7/28/15 12:59 PM, Binarydepth wrote: When indexing, it always goes out to in. So nam[0] is the first element of type int[2], and nam[0][0] is the first integer in that first element. -Steve I don't get what you mean here. In general I understood that in D multidimensional arrays are a group of arrays. A bit off-topic. I've done a lot of image processing work that deals with 2D arrays in particular. I must admit that for the most part now I just use a 1D array for all my 2D arrays and do a bit of index arithmetic to figure the location in 2D. To index I have to do something like (for row major order): my2darray[row * COLS_PER_ROW + col] = blah; But I find this has many advantages: 1. The tiny bit of arithmetic is more than offset by not having to deal with trying to remember the order of the indices. 2. You can chose if you want row or column major order. 3. It makes lots of operations much easier, ie. adding two images together if they are of the same dimensions, generating histograms, calculating the average value in a 2D array. 4. Easy to set size dynamically. 5. Consistent between pretty much every programming language (ie. my C and D code would look the same). 6. (IMHO) Code is actually more readable. But then I find lots of brackets confusing ... so maybe its just me.
Re: Dynamic memory
On Tuesday, 28 July 2015 at 20:07:12 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On 7/28/15 3:33 PM, CraigDillabaugh wrote: 6. (IMHO) Code is actually more readable. But then I find lots of brackets confusing ... so maybe its just me. Have you considered a wrapper that uses multi-dimensional access? i.e.: my2darray[row, col] = blah; -Steve It has crossed my mind, but I've got so used to doing the position calculations I haven't yet tried it. I guess you would simply need to put your array in a struct and overload the '[]' operator correct? (Plus the appropriate constructors, etc).
Re: Yes or No Options
On Monday, 27 July 2015 at 17:21:33 UTC, Anonymous wrote: On Monday, 27 July 2015 at 16:48:00 UTC, Alex wrote: Okay. By pure trying I found out what I did wrong: Apparently by typing Y I entered the shift key. Could that have been the problem? I changed it to a small y and it at least jumped back to the commandline instead of just being stuck. And by changing: writeln(Do you want to play again? Y/N?); readln(yesno); if (yesno == y) { writeln(Yeah!); } to: writeln(Do you want to play again? Y/N?); readln(yesno); if (yesno != y) { writeln(Yeah!); } So instead of == I used != Now it works. But I still do not know why.. Check out what is the length of yesno after you do your readln. Ex. writeln(yesno.length) std.string.chomp may help. Also, notice in Namespace's answer above the use of: if (yesno.toLower() != y) This ensures that whether the user typed 'Y' or 'y' then check works properly. Which is likely what the user expects. The 'Shift' key does not add any new symbols to the string (it only modifies what symbols are added).
Re: Working on new binary serialization module for phobos (hopefully)
On Monday, 1 June 2015 at 14:45:08 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2015-06-01 14:52, Sean Campbell wrote: I've been working on a new serialization module for Phobos and its only reliant on 4 Phobos modules it is available at https://github.com/sycam0inc/phobos/blob/master/std/experimental/serialization.d I would like some feedback on it I had a quick look at the code. Based on that and how short the code is I'm guessing it lacks some features. I've been working on a serialization package for Phobos for a long time. Basically moving Orange [1] in to Phobos. My serialization library supports: * Fully automatic serialization * Serializing non-public fields * Serializing without registering types (except when serialized through a base class reference) * Serializing third party types * Custom serialization, both intrusive and no-intrusive * Tracking of references, pointers and arrays to only serialize the data once * Properly restores arrays and slices * Separate front end (serializer) from back end (archiver/format) * Deserializing of classes without default constructor [1] https://github.com/jacob-carlborg/orange I noticed there hasn't been any activity on the Github repo for 8 months. Why is that? Do you consider this a completely finished product, or are you held up by the PHobos review process?
Re: Union redux
On Monday, 1 June 2015 at 21:02:30 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 6/1/2015 12:43 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: On 6/1/15 12:00 PM, deadalnix wrote: 1/ .init for unions is not defined. I propose to define it as the .init of the first field + padding with 0s if the union is larger than its first member. It seems to be what is generated right now. Fine. Fine as in yes :-) For non-native speakers, the use of fine is often confusing. Fine in American english means you're wrong, but I won't argue the point. It does not signify endorsement. Maybe this explains why my wife was upset with me when she asked how she looked and I said Fine. 8/ unions and structs are mangled the same way (or so it seems). Bug or feature ? Not sure. Walter? I think it's fine. So are you saying you think don't think they are mangled the same way, but that you don't want to bother arguing. Craig
Re: Calypso: Direct and full interfacing to C++
On Tuesday, 19 May 2015 at 08:09:33 UTC, Suliman wrote: modmap (C++) gdalwarper; import std.stdio; void main() { GDALDatasetH hSrcDS, hDstDS; GDALAllRegister(); writeln(hello); } error: app.d(7): Error: undefined identifier GDALDatasetH app.d(7): Error: undefined identifier GDALDatasetH app.d(8): Error: undefined identifier GDALAllRegister Perhaps you also need to include the GDAL headers, as I suspect gdalwarper doesn't define GDALDatasetH.
Re: Calypso: Direct and full interfacing to C++
On Tuesday, 19 May 2015 at 17:31:07 UTC, Kelly wrote: On Tuesday, 19 May 2015 at 16:33:00 UTC, CraigDillabaugh wrote: On Tuesday, 19 May 2015 at 08:09:33 UTC, Suliman wrote: modmap (C++) gdalwarper; import std.stdio; void main() { GDALDatasetH hSrcDS, hDstDS; GDALAllRegister(); writeln(hello); } error: app.d(7): Error: undefined identifier GDALDatasetH app.d(7): Error: undefined identifier GDALDatasetH app.d(8): Error: undefined identifier GDALAllRegister Perhaps you also need to include the GDAL headers, as I suspect gdalwarper doesn't define GDALDatasetH. Hi Craig, The method here is to actually 'import (C++) _;' since that '_' will make Calypso import all the global functions/variables/typedefs in gdalwarper. This works for namespaces also, so if you have a namespace in a different example called MySpace, then calling 'import (C++) MySpace._;' will import all the functions/variables/typedefs in the namespace and make them accessible in your D file. If you just have a single class in the MySpace namespace called 'myclass', and you would like to use it in your D program, then use 'import (C++) MySpace.myclass;' to import it. Then instantiate the class in D and use it from there. Thanks, Kelly Kelly, Just to clarify then. If gdalwarper.h includes gdal.h and GDALDatasetH is declared in gdal.h, then gdal.h gets imported too? Craig
Re: Accessing x86 Performance Counters
On Wednesday, 13 May 2015 at 09:26:40 UTC, Benjamin Thaut wrote: On Wednesday, 13 May 2015 at 08:53:10 UTC, Kagamin wrote: There was no word about windows, but process explorer shows page faults and cycles per process from unprivileged account, so I guess, this information is available through some API. Not sure is such system-wide statistics is available too. He is talking about the performance counters build into intel x86 processors (at least thats what I understood) thats something completely different from page faults and cycles per process. And as it is processor specific there is _no_ general api for it. That should be She is talking about ... :o)
Re: rdmd renames directories if they share the same name as an output file, what to do?
On Thursday, 30 April 2015 at 18:09:29 UTC, Gary Willoughby wrote: In the following bug report it's highlighted that rdmd renames directories if they share the same name as the output file. https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13758 Is there a consensus of opinion on what rdmd should do in this situation? i.e. should it raise an error and fail? Should there be a switch to enable this behaviour? Personally I think it *should* fail and report the name clash. The switch should not implemented. Agreed. It should just fail.
Re: How D could gain more traction?
On Wednesday, 15 April 2015 at 12:00:54 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: clip Yes, there is a lot of overlap in the D community: 4 D compiler projects, a bunch of IDE projects, a bunch of GUI library projects, a bunch of (basic) game engine projects... All rather large in scope if you want to reach a complete state. What is needed is a committee ;). But seriously, if you had a nice public API design on paper then maybe people would flock behind the same project rather than creating their own. Unless they do it for educational reasons/entertainment. clip D biggest problem is that it is so fun to use it leads people to want to create their own _ insert project here _
Re: Converting void* to D array
On Wednesday, 15 April 2015 at 11:18:03 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On 4/15/15 12:47 AM, Daniel Kozak wrote: On Wednesday, 15 April 2015 at 04:43:39 UTC, Daniel Kozák wrote: On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 04:24:20 + Craig Dillabaugh via Digitalmars-d-learn digitalmars-d-learn@puremagic.com wrote: Hi. I want to call a C library function that returns a data buffer as a void*. How do I convert the resulting void* into something I can process in D? //I have the following function from the GDAL C library. extern(C) CPLErr GDALReadBlock( GDALRasterBandH, int, int, void* ); So I have (GByte is defined in the GDAL library): void* buffer = malloc( GByte.sizeof * x_block_size * y_block_size ); I fill the buffer (and ignore any errors :o) GDALReadBlock( AGDALRasterBandHInstance, xblock, yblock, buffer ); Now, how can I access the data in buffer? Or you probably can do it like this: auto buffer = new GByte[xblock*yblock]; GDALReadBlock( AGDALRasterBandHInstance, xblock, yblock, (cast void*)buffer.ptr ); But in this case memory will be scan by GC. Which probably is not something what you want. Depends on what GByte is. If it doesn't contain pointers (I'm assuming its probably ubyte?), then it won't be scanned. If you still want to use malloc, but in a safe way, you can do: immutable blocksize = GByte.sizeof * x_block_size * y_block_size; auto buffer = malloc(blocksize)[0..blocksize]; Also, you don't need to cast pointers to void *. Should be able to do: GDALReadBlock(AGDALRasterBandHInstance, xblock, yblock, buffer.ptr); -Steve Thanks for the pointers (no pun intended!) Just out of curiosity, what is the type of 'buffer'? 'malloc' returns a void* but using the .ptr suggests 'buffer' is an array. Is the return of malloc automatically converted to an array?
Re: Converting void* to D array
On Wednesday, 15 April 2015 at 11:18:03 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: clip Depends on what GByte is. If it doesn't contain pointers (I'm assuming its probably ubyte?), then it won't be scanned. clip -Steve Yes, GByte is an alias for ubyte.
Re: Converting void* to D array
On Wednesday, 15 April 2015 at 14:02:38 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On 4/15/15 8:35 AM, CraigDillabaugh wrote: On Wednesday, 15 April 2015 at 11:18:03 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: immutable blocksize = GByte.sizeof * x_block_size * y_block_size; auto buffer = malloc(blocksize)[0..blocksize]; Also, you don't need to cast pointers to void *. Should be able to do: GDALReadBlock(AGDALRasterBandHInstance, xblock, yblock, buffer.ptr); Thanks for the pointers (no pun intended!) Just out of curiosity, what is the type of 'buffer'? 'malloc' returns a void* but using the .ptr suggests 'buffer' is an array. Is the return of malloc automatically converted to an array? malloc returns void *, but I am applying the slice operator which turns a pointer into a slice. I'll split it up: auto bufptr = malloc(blocksize);// typeof(bufptr) = void * auto buffer = bufptr[0..blocksize]; // typeof(buffer) = void[] -Steve Nice. Thanks. I didn't realize you can slice a bare pointer like that. Does druntime have any way of making sure that is safe, or are you on your own?
Re: How D could gain more traction?
On Wednesday, 15 April 2015 at 15:49:10 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad wrote: On Wednesday, 15 April 2015 at 15:36:44 UTC, XavierAP wrote: That looks like good architecture. I'm not sure if 2 and 3 wouldn't be at the same level of (non-) dependency? Or maybe it's the image processing example you've used. In any case 2 would have more priority because of practical reasons (necessity for a real-world standard library, and core-ness) and lack of 3rd-party alternatives. clip Image processing is also a hard nut to crack. Think just about height fields in 3D. Satellite images with N layer of high resolution or too large to fit in memory etc. Then you have run length encoding... For Satellite image processing at least GDAL can take care of most of the memory/image handling stuff. I have some D Bindings (largely untested). https://github.com/craig-dillabaugh/gdal
Re: I came up with a new logo for the D language
On Monday, 13 April 2015 at 20:45:29 UTC, weaselcat wrote: I rather liked the anthropomorphized D that used to be somewhere on the site. This guy : http://dlang.org/overview.html
Re: Does 'D' language supports 'C' like VLA?
On Monday, 13 April 2015 at 17:05:59 UTC, BS LD wrote: On Monday, 13 April 2015 at 17:02:13 UTC, CraigDillabaugh wrote: On Monday, 13 April 2015 at 16:53:55 UTC, BS LD wrote: As you know in 'C' you can create a variable-length-array using variably modified type and a run-time variable allocating a storage for it - the same way for any local (normally using the stack). However in 'D' I don't see such feature. Code like this fails: void main() { size_t szArr = 3; int[szArr] arr; } With this error message: error: variable szArr cannot be read at compile time int[szArr] arr; Life example - http://melpon.org/wandbox/permlink/a6CzBhYk88FohKlf Note: I'm also amazed why 'D' compiler can't detect that 'szArr' is a constant anyway. This likely belongs in D.learn. What you are looking for is: int[] arr; arr.length = 3; I suppose this will allocate the array on the 'heap' or it's storage will last past the function scope doesn't it? What I want is to allocate such variable-length-array on the stack as any other local variable. Yes, and as John pointed out it isn't the nicest way to do this. Sorry for the noise.
Re: Does 'D' language supports 'C' like VLA?
On Monday, 13 April 2015 at 17:08:57 UTC, CraigDillabaugh wrote: On Monday, 13 April 2015 at 17:05:59 UTC, BS LD wrote: On Monday, 13 April 2015 at 17:02:13 UTC, CraigDillabaugh wrote: On Monday, 13 April 2015 at 16:53:55 UTC, BS LD wrote: As you know in 'C' you can create a variable-length-array using variably modified type and a run-time variable allocating a storage for it - the same way for any local (normally using the stack). However in 'D' I don't see such feature. Code like this fails: void main() { size_t szArr = 3; int[szArr] arr; } With this error message: error: variable szArr cannot be read at compile time int[szArr] arr; Life example - http://melpon.org/wandbox/permlink/a6CzBhYk88FohKlf Note: I'm also amazed why 'D' compiler can't detect that 'szArr' is a constant anyway. This likely belongs in D.learn. What you are looking for is: int[] arr; arr.length = 3; I suppose this will allocate the array on the 'heap' or it's storage will last past the function scope doesn't it? What I want is to allocate such variable-length-array on the stack as any other local variable. Yes, and as John pointed out it isn't the nicest way to do this. Sorry for the noise. I should mention that while it is on the heap, the storage should get GC'd.
Re: Does 'D' language supports 'C' like VLA?
On Monday, 13 April 2015 at 16:53:55 UTC, BS LD wrote: As you know in 'C' you can create a variable-length-array using variably modified type and a run-time variable allocating a storage for it - the same way for any local (normally using the stack). However in 'D' I don't see such feature. Code like this fails: void main() { size_t szArr = 3; int[szArr] arr; } With this error message: error: variable szArr cannot be read at compile time int[szArr] arr; Life example - http://melpon.org/wandbox/permlink/a6CzBhYk88FohKlf Note: I'm also amazed why 'D' compiler can't detect that 'szArr' is a constant anyway. This likely belongs in D.learn. What you are looking for is: int[] arr; arr.length = 3;
Re: Dgame RC #1
On Thursday, 2 April 2015 at 09:30:43 UTC, Namespace wrote: Just a follow up comment. Apparently the instructions for installing all libraries at once in the tutorial don't work for OpenSuse. So I couldn't just install the SDL library but had to install the other libraries individually: So just in case there are any other OpenSuse users out there (note, I suppose I didn't need the devel version of libSDL2 ...): sudo zypper in libSDL2-devel sudo zypper in libSDL2_image-2_0-0 sudo zypper in libSDL2_mixer-2_0-0 sudo zypper in libSDL2_ttf-2_0-0 I will add this to the installation tutorial. Unfortunately I did not tested Dgame with OpenSUSE, sorry for your trouble. No worries, you can't test everything, and OpenSUSE isn't as popular as some other distros. Also, I guess OpenSUSE isn't going to work with default libs anyway because of the versions. I am going to build SDL from scratch and install. I've downloaded 2.0.3, so I should be good to go. Thanks Namespace and Mike for your help.
Re: Dgame RC #1
On Wednesday, 1 April 2015 at 18:30:01 UTC, Namespace wrote: Since the weekend Dgame went into the release phase: https://github.com/Dgame/Dgame/releases/tag/v0.5.0-rc.1 http://dgame-dev.de/?page=download The Website (http://dgame-dev.de/) is fully updated and should be useable on every device. Please let me know if you noticed unexpected behavior (at Dgame or on the website). I also want to participate on one game a month (http://www.onegameamonth.com/). I hope you will vote for me there. ;) I'm sure that will bring some new light to the D community and it will be a good stress test for Dgame. Looks nice. I've never done any real game programming, but I told my kids that we should try to design some simple games together (since I want to get them interested in coding). I am going to give Dgame a try. Thanks for making this available. Craig
Re: They wrote the fastest parallelized BAM parser in D
On Monday, 30 March 2015 at 20:09:35 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote: clip You're right about the lack of visualization being a shame. I have been thinking about porting Bokeh bindings to D. There isn't much too it on the server side - all you need to do is build up the object model and translate it to JSON - but I have not time right now to do it all myself. clip A comment on the visualization thing. Is this really a big issue? Data processing (D's strong point) and visualization are different tasks, and presumably as long as outputs are to standard file types (ie. NetCDF, HDF5 or other domain specific formats) then existing visualization tools should be usable. I did some image processing work with D and didn't find the lack of specific D tools for visualization a big issue. There is some advantage to being able to perform visualization tasks in the same lanaguage as you do the data processing work, but I wouldn't this this would be a major obstacle.
Re: Human unreadable documentation - the ugly seam between simple D and complex D
On Friday, 27 March 2015 at 10:10:37 UTC, Dominikus Dittes Scherkl wrote: On Thursday, 26 March 2015 at 19:32:53 UTC, Idan Arye wrote: But when it comes to heavily templated functions - understanding the signature is HARD. It's hard enough for the top programmers that can handle the complex D features - it's much harder for the average programmers that could have easily used these functions if they could just understand the documentation. I think the documentation should simply contain the unittests - they show quite well how to call the template, from minimal cases to the complex ones. Ok, they tend to show a lot of edge-cases, but even the very simplest usages of a function should be unit-tested, so at least those have to be part of the documentation. Unittests are helpful, but I think examples aimed at demonstrating usage are of more value if possible. Unittests and examples have subtly different purposes. When writing a Unittest the programmer will likely take whatever shortcuts they can to get data into the tested function in the correct format, with the least amount of code/effort legally possible. Whereas examples (hopefully) will try to present inputs in 'real life' scenarios. If the function inputs are trivial (ie. takes an integer or basic string) then this isn't an issue. But for functions taking complex inputs it can be a bit baffling for someone new to the language. I must admit when I was new to phobos I struggled with the use of unittests as examples, especially for functions taking Anyway, unittests are better than nothing - if that is the other option.
Re: Human unreadable documentation - the ugly seam between simple D and complex D
On Friday, 27 March 2015 at 14:02:55 UTC, CraigDillabaugh wrote: clip If the function inputs are trivial (ie. takes an integer or basic string) then this isn't an issue. But for functions taking complex inputs it can be a bit baffling for someone new to the language. I must admit when I was new to phobos I struggled with the use of unittests as examples, especially for functions taking for functions taking ranges or other non-trivial inputs. Anyway, unittests are better than nothing - if that is the other option.
Re: Human unreadable documentation - the ugly seam between simple D and complex D
On Friday, 27 March 2015 at 19:36:23 UTC, Xavier Bigand wrote: Le 27/03/2015 15:02, CraigDillabaugh a écrit : On Friday, 27 March 2015 at 10:10:37 UTC, Dominikus Dittes Scherkl wrote: clip Just a little point : I find some much examples not tested on Internet, so to me examples have to by played by the compiler in the same time as unittest. Maybe it must have a new keyword? But that true unittest doesn't have exactly the same purpose and some risk to be hard to read for a beginner. That is a good point. Ideally when building a library all the 'examples' in the documentation should be built too to make sure they are still valid. Example code should be marked as such, extracted and run through the compiler with each new release. I seem to recall reading in places that some D resources (Ali's book perhaps) do this with their source code. As things stand that would be a mark in favor of unittests.
Re: Human unreadable documentation - the ugly seam between simple D and complex D
On Friday, 27 March 2015 at 19:47:47 UTC, David Nadlinger wrote: On Friday, 27 March 2015 at 19:44:10 UTC, CraigDillabaugh wrote: That is a good point. Ideally when building a library all the 'examples' in the documentation should be built too to make sure they are still valid. Example code should be marked as such, extracted and run through the compiler with each new release. I seem to recall reading in places that some D resources (Ali's book perhaps) do this with their source code. As things stand that would be a mark in favor of unittests. D has documented unittests (they appear in the docs as if part of the Examples section). The only excuses for example code in Phobos to be untested are supposed to be that it is an incomplete fragment or that it is old code from before we had the feature. — David Does that force the examples to be unittests though?
Re: The DMD Download page looks strange
On Wednesday, 25 March 2015 at 12:14:46 UTC, wobbles wrote: http://dlang.org/download.html Each of the download links are semi-overlaid on each other. Tested on the latest Chrome and Firefox on Ubuntu 14.04. With a new release out, I suspect these pages will be used a lot! I see the same thing on Firefox 36.0.1 on Windows 7. Looks fine with Explorer on Windows and Firefox on Linux.
Re: Release D 2.067.0
On Tuesday, 24 March 2015 at 17:08:03 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote: Glad to announce D 2.067.0. This release comes with many improvements. The GC is a lot faster for most use-cases, we have improved C++ interoperability and fixed plenty of bugs. See the changelog for more details. http://dlang.org/changelog.html Download pages and documentation will be updated within the next few hours. http://downloads.dlang.org/releases/2.x/2.067.0/ http://ftp.digitalmars.com/ Until the binaries are mirrored to the official site, you can get them here. https://dlang.dawg.eu/downloads/dmd.2.067.0/ -Martin Congratulations to Martin and everyone else who contributed. Craig
Re: Where's This week in D?
On Monday, 23 March 2015 at 21:28:27 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: No issue for the past week? -- Andrei Maybe Adam was vaporized by Aliens!
Re: Solution to problems:
On Tuesday, 24 March 2015 at 17:13:07 UTC, Jake The Baker wrote: You guys are complete ignoring 90% of the post. It is not just about configuration. clip Regardless, I'll be back in another year to see what progress has been made. Good luck. I really do hope you guys can get your shit together and make D the top language! I'd like to actually use it for serious stuff one of these days(hopefully before my hair turns gray) Just curious to know which major open source programming languages support the sort of development environment you are suggesting for their core language/libraries. I just checked Python (the most popular Open Source language of all) and they use ./config make and hg for version control .. seems pretty bare bones to me. While I am sure what you are proposing would be nice, if a massive community like Python doesn't have time/resources to create such a thing, how do you propose a small community like D go about this? Perhaps this is a project you could take on. For the record, for someone to be a developer for a programming language, I don't think expecting them to understand the build system is really an issue. In fact I would feel more comfortable with such people contributing.
Re: Solution to problems:
On Tuesday, 24 March 2015 at 17:13:07 UTC, Jake The Baker wrote: You guys are complete ignoring 90% of the post. It is not just about configuration. Regardless, I'll be back in another year to see what progress has been made. Good luck. I really do hope you guys can get your shit together and make D the top language! I'd like to actually use it for serious stuff one of these days(hopefully before my hair turns gray) Did you even look at Digger and DVM as was suggested above? They don't seem to fulfil your vision, but they do provide some of what you are asking for.
Re: [Semi OT] The programming language wars
On Friday, 20 March 2015 at 17:25:54 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote: On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 05:04:20PM +, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Fri, 20 Mar 2015 13:28:45 +, Paulo Pinto wrote: Given that I have been an IDE fan since the Amiga days, I fully agree. Every time I am on UNIX I feel like a time travel to the days of yore. being on non-nix system is a torture. there aren't even gcc, let alone emacs/vim. Yeah, I've become so accustomed to the speed of keyboard-based controls that every time I use my wife's Windows laptop, I feel so frustrated at the rodent dependence and its slowness that I want to throw the thing out the window. But at another level, it's not even about keyboard vs. rodent... it's about *scriptability*. It's about abstraction. Typing commands at the CLI, while on the surface looks so tedious, actually has a powerful advantage: clip Ultimately, I think rodent-based UIs will go the way of the dinosaur. While I may not share you optimism for the future, I do agree the CLI is almost always better:o) One big advantage to CLI stuff is that when you come up against some tricky configuration, or rarely used command, you can write a little script (with comments) describing how to do it (and WHY you did it that way). Very handy for those tasks that you end up doing once every X months, and always forget the details of in between. How do you do that with a GUI? Make a video or open up OpenOffice/MS Word and start taking screen shots. Painful stuff. Same goes for configuration files which beat GUI-based configuration hands down. Having said all that having IDE-like, language aware, code-completion and background compilation, and a good debugger are a big plus for productivity in many cases.
Re: A few notes on choosing between Go and D for a quick project
clip Bearophile, You said that Unfortunately this thinking is going out of style for good reasons. I am confused (sorry, I am at work, and didn't have time to watch the 1+ hour video you linked to - maybe some clues were there)! I often find myself feeling a bit like Elazar. Not long ago I wrote some Python code using a bunch of the functional style programming tools and I was very please with the very concise code I had generated. Then, I had to make some modifications to the code. It took me an inordinate amount of time just to figure out what the code was doing, and I had written it myself just a few days earlier! Craig Maybe your years of practice and deep familiarity with imperative code patterns - both general and individual to yourself - might have skewed the result somewhat. It seems to me that much of practical programming is about having set up quick paths in your brain for recognising and manipulating common patterns. There's a big gap between understanding something intellectually and understanding something intuitively. There is quite possibly something too that, and as I imagine with more functional experience it will come easier to me. However, I still think imperative code is generally easier to reason about because (usually) each line of code is performing a single task, whereas with functional coding the goal seems to be to cram as many operations as possible into a single line (I know that isn't the real reason, it just seems that way at times). Trying to 'unroll' everything in your head can be a challenge. Throw in a lambda function or two with the mess of braces/symbols and then you have a real puzzler.
Re: A few notes on choosing between Go and D for a quick project
On Wednesday, 18 March 2015 at 12:11:52 UTC, bearophile wrote: Elazar Leibovich: I personally, would have no idea what this piece of code is doing upon first sight. I'll have to look at the documentation of at least two functions to understand that, and I'll have to think carefully about what and who would throw in case of an error. Something like while (n != EOF) { n = read(fd, buf, sizeof(buf)); if (n==-1) throw(...); if (strcmp(buf, PREFIX) == 0) { return buf; } } return NULL; Requires no prior knowledge, and have similar effect. I'd rather have a loop written by hand in my production code any day, so that when debugging it, and reading it I'll have easier time to understand it, even though it would cost me a few more lines when writing the code. Unfortunately your thinking is mostly obsolete, the programming world (well, most of it, Go is one exception) is going in the opposite direction, and for good reasons. An explanation: https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/GoingNative/2013/Cpp-Seasoning Bye, bearophile Bearophile, You said that Unfortunately this thinking is going out of style for good reasons. I am confused (sorry, I am at work, and didn't have time to watch the 1+ hour video you linked to - maybe some clues were there)! I often find myself feeling a bit like Elazar. Not long ago I wrote some Python code using a bunch of the functional style programming tools and I was very please with the very concise code I had generated. Then, I had to make some modifications to the code. It took me an inordinate amount of time just to figure out what the code was doing, and I had written it myself just a few days earlier! Craig
Re: Using C++ libraries in D
On Tuesday, 17 March 2015 at 13:22:13 UTC, kishore wrote: Hi, I'm new to D language, I'm from Java, Scala family. D is interesting and better than C++ from my point of view. Can we able to use C++ external libraries in D language ? For example I would like to use GraphLab(https://dato.com/products/create/open_source.html) library in my D programs is it possible ? You may also be interested in Calypso: http://forum.dlang.org/thread/nsjafpymezlqdknmn...@forum.dlang.org#post-m7abcp:242sf1:241:40digitalmars.com I haven't used it myself, so I can't vouch for it, and it is likely very 'bleeding edge', but if you are adventurous it could be worth a try. Craig
Re: YOW 2014 talk on D now online
On Thursday, 12 March 2015 at 17:08:08 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2yt1ek/andrei_alexandrescu_on_d_at_yow2014_local_imports/ https://twitter.com/D_Programming/status/576066527155367936 https://www.facebook.com/dlang.org/posts/1031487990198215 Andrei Gary beat you to it by 1 hour! http://forum.dlang.org/thread/ionjnsvqcplgxuoip...@forum.dlang.org
Re: GSoC 2015 - Application Rejected
On Tuesday, 3 March 2015 at 09:03:44 UTC, weaselcat wrote: On Tuesday, 3 March 2015 at 08:14:55 UTC, Russel Winder wrote: On Mon, 2015-03-02 at 23:00 +, CraigDillabaugh via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: […] Yes, but I didn't see Rust, Nimrod, or Go on there, so I suppose we are on even footing with our main competition. It's called Nim now. I suspect there was a rationale for the change, but I am not sure it was worth it. The rationale was that Nimrod has a fairly negative meaning attached to it in American(?) English. I'm not sure if it exists in other English dialects. In Canada (were are about 1/2 way between the Brits + Americans) at least it was/is a derogatory term for someone who wasn't too bright. I always thought the name was a bit awkward because of that, and I should have remembered that they renamed it Nim.
Re: GSoC 2015 - Application Rejected
On Tuesday, 3 March 2015 at 08:09:30 UTC, Russel Winder wrote: On Mon, 2015-03-02 at 22:51 +, CraigDillabaugh via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: […] I sent a message asking for a bit more in-depth feedback, we will see how that turns out! I suspect it is like any decision making process where there are N places for M applications and N M, many get culled by fairly arbitrary criteria simply to get the numbers down and make the decision making tractable. We are going through this right now with the DevoxxUK 2015 programme committee, and many of us have a fear we might have missed a good proposal in the mass culling needed to get few enough selected not to have an overburdened programme. I imagine you are correct. I understand that Google can't take everyone, and they no doubt have some tough choices, so I don't feel that we have been unfairly treated in any way. I am hoping though we can get some feedback so that next year's entry can be better though.
Re: GSoC 2015 - Application Rejected
On Tuesday, 3 March 2015 at 17:40:55 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2015-03-03 14:45, CraigDillabaugh wrote: That would require some serious chutzpah! Are you volunteering to mentor that? Not really. That was not completely serious proposal, hence the smiley. I would probably need to know vibe.d as well, which I don't. I guess I should have added a smiley myself, I had figured as much. I did get feedback from Google. It was as follows: == Hi Craig, We wanted your ideas page to be formatted in our preferred format and to have each idea fleshed out with potential mentors, difficulty level, required skills, etc. That would have helped. However, largely this was a matter of us just not having enough space to accept all the orgs we wanted to except. Good luck next year! == Sort of odd, since we had ideas listed with potential mentors, difficulty levels, and so forth ... feels sort of like a generic response again. Maybe next year I will have to use blink tags on those parts of the list :o)
Re: GSoC 2015 - Application Rejected
On Tuesday, 3 March 2015 at 08:37:11 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2015-03-02 20:39, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: Google's Melange site is a disgrace, it is truly horrible. I suspect it is something written by someone who is a failure as a Web applications developer. Use that as a project for next year, rewrite the site in D and make it useable :) That would require some serious chutzpah! Are you volunteering to mentor that? It would almost be worth having our application rejected just to have that in our list of projects ... just think of all the great PR we could generate!
Re: GSoC 2015 - Application Rejected
On Monday, 2 March 2015 at 19:39:50 UTC, Russel Winder wrote: On Mon, 2015-03-02 at 19:10 +, CraigDillabaugh via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: […] Tying to keep things positive, at least I don't have to spend a good chunk of my summer working with that horrible Melange site, and the rest of you won't have to put up with my GSoC pestering ... Google's Melange site is a disgrace, it is truly horrible. I suspect it is something written by someone who is a failure as a Web applications developer. Having you hectoring us makes things happen, do not stop doing this please. I will try to keep hectoring folks, but you all get a break at least for the summer :o)
Re: GSoC 2015 - Application Rejected
On Monday, 2 March 2015 at 22:36:43 UTC, weaselcat wrote: On Monday, 2 March 2015 at 19:08:49 UTC, CraigDillabaugh wrote: Unfortunately our organizational proposal for the 2015 Google Summer of Code was rejected. Thanks to everyone who helped out on this, especially to those who volunteered to mentor. I've asked Google to provide me with feedback, and I will post that here once/if I get something from them. If I am not asked to resign I am happy to volunteer for this post again next year. Hopefully I can learn something from this year and any feedback they provide. Cheers, Craig List of accepted projects https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/list/public/google/gsoc2015 a lot of other languages got accepted :( Yes, but I didn't see Rust, Nimrod, or Go on there, so I suppose we are on even footing with our main competition.
Re: GSoC 2015 - Application Rejected
On Monday, 2 March 2015 at 20:56:39 UTC, Walter Bright wrote: On 3/2/2015 11:08 AM, CraigDillabaugh wrote: Unfortunately our organizational proposal for the 2015 Google Summer of Code was rejected. Thanks to everyone who helped out on this, especially to those who volunteered to mentor. I've asked Google to provide me with feedback, and I will post that here once/if I get something from them. If I am not asked to resign I am happy to volunteer for this post again next year. Hopefully I can learn something from this year and any feedback they provide. Thank you very much for taking the initiative and lead on this, Craig. Having done this myself (with Andrei), I know how much work it is. I'm sorry it didn't work out in our favor, but it's important that you tried. Thanks for the kind words.
Re: GSoC 2015 - Application Rejected
On Monday, 2 March 2015 at 19:50:07 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote: On 03/02/2015 08:08 PM, CraigDillabaugh wrote: Unfortunately our organizational proposal for the 2015 Google Summer of Code was rejected. Thanks to everyone who helped out on this, especially to those who volunteered to mentor. Just read that as well, it's a pity. Thanks for all the good work Craig. I've asked Google to provide me with feedback, and I will post that here once/if I get something from them. You sent them a mail? Let's hope we get some qualified feedback. I'll try to attend the IRC feedback meeting as well. -Martin Martin, thanks. If you can get in on the IRC that would be great. Google returned my message but it was basically We had a lot of hard decisions, and your organization was one of those ... I bet everyone who failed an application gets the same feedback :o) I sent a message asking for a bit more in-depth feedback, we will see how that turns out!
Re: GSoC 2015 - Application Rejected
On Monday, 2 March 2015 at 19:08:49 UTC, CraigDillabaugh wrote: Unfortunately our organizational proposal for the 2015 Google Summer of Code was rejected. Thanks to everyone who helped out on this, especially to those who volunteered to mentor. I've asked Google to provide me with feedback, and I will post that here once/if I get something from them. If I am not asked to resign I am happy to volunteer for this post again next year. Hopefully I can learn something from this year and any feedback they provide. Cheers, Craig Tying to keep things positive, at least I don't have to spend a good chunk of my summer working with that horrible Melange site, and the rest of you won't have to put up with my GSoC pestering ...
GSoC 2015 - Application Rejected
Unfortunately our organizational proposal for the 2015 Google Summer of Code was rejected. Thanks to everyone who helped out on this, especially to those who volunteered to mentor. I've asked Google to provide me with feedback, and I will post that here once/if I get something from them. If I am not asked to resign I am happy to volunteer for this post again next year. Hopefully I can learn something from this year and any feedback they provide. Cheers, Craig
Re: LLVM 3.6 released - LDC master branch/0.15.1 is ready to use it!
On Friday, 27 February 2015 at 19:44:01 UTC, Kai Nacke wrote: Hi all! Finally, LLVM 3.6 has been released! See the release notes here: http://llvm.org/releases/3.6.0/docs/ReleaseNotes.html Downloads: http://llvm.org/releases/download.html#3.6.0 Also note that LDC is mentioned in the release notes as one of the projects who are already supporting LLVM 3.6. Just recompile LDC using master branch from GitHub or from the 0.15.1 source. This is the 6th time that LDC and D are mentioned in the LLVM release notes! Regards, Kai Congratulations! Thanks for your work on this.
Re: Will D have a standard cross platform GUI toolkit?
On Thursday, 26 February 2015 at 18:20:12 UTC, Rinzler wrote: Hello, I was wondering if D will have a standard cross platform GUI toolkit. I think that any modern language should provide a cross-platform GUI toolkit. I know that there are some GUI toolkits, but are there cross-platform? Are there serious works? That is, will them always be supported and evolve along with the D programming language? I think that having bindings of a GUI toolkit for a programming languages can be useful, but they have to be well supported. Will QT support D programming language? I really love the Qt framework (except from the fact it's not open source, as far as I know), even though I have not used it a lot. I have to admit that I love D, even if I did not start programming with it. It seems it combines the most useful things of C++ and Java, which are my favourite programming languages. Maybe there are other questions already in the forum, since I am new, I don't know, but a new question, more up to date, can also be useful. Thanks! You may want to check out DOtherSide, which is a set of bindings to QML: https://github.com/filcuc/DOtherSide
Re: Will D have a standard cross platform GUI toolkit?
On Thursday, 26 February 2015 at 18:49:39 UTC, Rinzler wrote: By the way, which, in your opinion, is the most performant and more stable? I personally can't help you there, as I've never done any GUI programming in D. Maybe you can test a few of them out and write a report :o)
Re: curl password issue
On Monday, 23 February 2015 at 17:47:54 UTC, Andre wrote: Until now I didn't found out how to solve the issue excepting changing the password;) In case I find the solution I will make a pull request. Kind regards André On Monday, 23 February 2015 at 16:58:16 UTC, Marc Schütz wrote: On Monday, 23 February 2015 at 16:10:42 UTC, Andre wrote: Hi, Curl has some issues with passwords containing special characters like the hash key (#). The password will not be accepted although it is correctly set with the method setAuthencication(user, pass1234#); I know this is more a Curl issue than a DLang issue but it is very frustrating and for unexperienced users very hard to find out why the application is working for some users and for some others not... Could the documentation for setAuthentication could be enhanced? Kind regards André Sure. You can make a pull request. The documentation in question is here: https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos/blob/master/std/net/curl.d#L1809 https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/phobos/blob/master/std/net/curl.d#L2411 Alternatively, you can suggest a text here, and I or some else will submit one. The suggestion to make a pull request wasn't to provide a work-around for the undesired behavior, but rather to add a comment noting what the the behavior was (as a warning for users). If this is a limitation of curl, there likely isn't anything D can do about it.
Re: Stackless resumable functions
On Friday, 20 February 2015 at 17:51:17 UTC, bitwise wrote: Just out of curiosity, is anyone planning to implement this? As for why it's not already implemented, is it because of lack of interest, or prohibitive reasons? On Friday, 24 October 2014 at 10:33:40 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote: This is so much better than Fibers. http://youtu.be/KUhSjfSbINE What I like most about the proposal is that you can adapt await by specializing template functions, similar to how range based foreach works. It also isn't tied to a particular scheduling mechanism and of course consumes much less memory than stack based suspension. They are waiting for your pull request :o)
Re: Google Summer of Code - Again
On Thursday, 19 February 2015 at 19:22:11 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote: On Thursday, 19 February 2015 at 19:19:51 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote: dawg BTW, please mail me for urgent stuff 'code dawg eu'. I should have guessed that! Anyway, I've now added you, I guess you need to log in to formally accept the invite to be admin. My display says you are an admin anyway. Cheers, Craig
Re: Google Summer of Code - Again
On Thursday, 19 February 2015 at 12:12:20 UTC, Russel Winder wrote: On Thu, 2015-02-19 at 04:28 +, Craig Dillabaugh via Digitalmars-d wrote: […] Russel. Can you accept my invitation to be adminstrator (perhaps you received and email about this), but who knows, that is the most baffling registration process I've ever been a part of I logged in and now it tells me I am an administrator. So something did something :-) So, the Google folks told me you had to accept the invitation, but you apparently did nothing other than log in and now the Melange site is telling me our proposal is now complete. Seems about par for the course. Anyway, thanks Russel! You've been a great help. The person from Google said that I should be able to switch administrators, but they did not seem to have any idea on how that would be done, but I will make sure you don't get stuck as admin. Martin, have you signed up for Melange yet? To busy with the release stuff maybe :o) Cheers, Craig