Re: Looking for champion - std.lang.d.lex

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 28.10.2010 16:46, schrieb Don:

retard wrote:

Wed, 27 Oct 2010 16:04:34 -0600, Todd D. VanderVeen wrote:


Legacy in the sense that C is perhaps.

http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html


Probably the top 10 names are more or less correct there, but some
funny notes:

33. D
36. Scratch
40. Haskell
42. JavaFX Script
49. Scala

Scratch is an educational tool. It isn't really suitable for any real
world applications. It slows down considerably with too many expressions.

There are several books about Haskell and Scala. Both have several
books on them, active mailing lists, and also very many active
community projects. Haven't heard much about JavaFX outside
Sun/Oracle. These statistics look really weird.


I reckon Fortran is the one to look at it. If Tiobe's stats were
sensible, the Fortran numbers would be solid as a rock.
And ADA ought to be pretty stable too. But look at this:

http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/paperinfo/tpci/Ada.html

Laughable.


There was an article in the Ct-Magazin (German) where they took a closer 
look at this rankings.

For example:
- search for 'C'you got 3080 M
- search for 'Java' you got  167 M

'Java' only competes with the island Java
'C'competes with C&A, c't-Magazin, C-Quadrat, C+C, char 'c', ...
   and many many more 

So, to correct this, only the first *100* (hundred) results are reviewed 
and the resulting factor applied to the sum of results.

Just look at 1-100, then at 101-200, 201-300 and so on ..
You get complete different factors.

So this numbers at tiobe are really lying!!

source:
http://www.heise.de/developer/artikel/Traue-keiner-Statistik-993137.html

greets
Matthias

Re: Hacking on DMD

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 13.11.2010 05:18, schrieb Nick Sabalausky:

"div0"  wrote in message
news:ibjef2$60...@digitalmars.com...

On 12/11/2010 05:05, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

"div0"   wrote in message
news:ibi2n1$7j...@digitalmars.com...

Is there an official guide to DMD source wiki page or mailing list?

I've been mucking about w/ DMD the last few days and I'm breaking it in
new and interesting ways.

It would be nice not to let that effort go to waste;

I've created VS project files, a UML-ish diagram to the source and
there's
various places where extra asserts&   error messages could be inserted to
safe guard against people doing stupid things, i.e. everything I've done
so far w.r.t to changing the code.



http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?DMDSourceGuide



Ah sweet. Ty. I did look on there but I couldn't find it.


It doesn't seem to be linked from anywhere. I first found it by someone
posting a link in this NG, and in my message abive I had to find it by
googling. I'm not sure where on the wiki a link to it would actually belong,
though.




I think, we should restruct the left menu on the wiki-page, so that such 
entries are easier to find!

Re: Help for .h to D pain?

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 12.11.2010 05:01, schrieb jfd:

I was trying to translate Apache module include files to D, but it soon leads
to a labyrinth of tangled nested #includes and #define and typedef's.  The
tools, `dmc -c -e -l', htod, etc. immediately choked.  It is getting really,
really,... time consuming, and the words "man years" flashes before my eyes
:O...  I'm beginning to see why C++ supports the .h's... after years of
knocking it... :(

There's gotta be a easier way... Help me!...

DMC is spewing out errors:

-
$ dmc -I. -c httpd.h -e -l
#define __STDC_IEC_559__
^
features.h(327) : Preprocessor error: macro '__STDC_IEC_559__' can't be #undef'd
  or #define'd
#define __STDC_IEC_559_COMPLEX__
^
features.h(328) : Preprocessor error: macro '__STDC_IEC_559_COMPLEX__' can't be
#undef'd or #define'd
typedef __signed__ char
   ^
asm-generic/int-ll64.h(19) : Error: '=', ';' or ',' expected
typedef __signed__ short __s16;
  ^
asm-generic/int-ll64.h(22) : Error: illegal combination of types
typedef __signed__ int __s32;
^
asm-generic/int-ll64.h(25) : Error: illegal combination of types
Fatal error: too many errors
--- errorlevel 1
-

HTOD too:

-
$ htod httpd.h
Fatal error: unable to open input file 'features.h'

$ htod -I. httpd.h
#define __STDC_IEC_559__1
^
features.h(327) : Preprocessor error: macro '__STDC_IEC_559__' can't be #undef'd
  or #define'd
#define __STDC_IEC_559_COMPLEX__1
^
features.h(328) : Preprocessor error: macro '__STDC_IEC_559_COMPLEX__' can't be
#undef'd or #define'd
Fatal error: unable to open input file 'stddef.h'
-

And what tool is there on Linux?

Hey, here's a crazy idea: Why not support #include "x.h"?  Now that's
"seamless"!  That's ONLY, and I emphasize ONLY (before someone goes nuts with
it), for supporting existing C libraries, not for general D programming.
Internally, it would import everything in .h that it reads as `extern(C)'
objects for D, or something like that.

LLVM has C compiler, right?  Why not borrow its header file parser (if license
allows)?

BTW, LDC and clang LLVM C compiler both compile to LLVM, so they should be
able to read each other's stuff, right?  That maybe a discussion more for the
LDC forums, but it also would involve D language change.

I'm okay with a "standard tool" instead of new "language feature", if that
tool makes it EEEASY..., and works "flawlessly" and "seamlessly" on Linux,
Windows, Mac, etc.  Hey, maybe that's beginning to sound like a big project in
itself, close to a full C compiler... :)

Help, anyone?  Thank you.



I've found this tool very usefull to translate C/C++ files to d
http://www.cabaret.demon.co.uk/filepp/

It's just a preprocessor, but gives very nice output!
(much nicier than g++, dmc or cl)
Afterwards you can use htod, or translate by hand.

greets
Matthias

Re: Basic standard graphics

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 13.11.2010 11:56, schrieb spir:

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 16:39:54 -0500
bearophile  wrote:


The "Image Noise" task asks:
Generate a random black and white 320x240 image continuously, showing FPS 
(frames per second).

This is the PureBasic implementation, it's far from being nice, but it's short 
and it's doesn't contain lot of magic:
http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Image_Noise#PureBasic

I don't know if D will have a built-in GUIs kit (like Delphi or Tcl), but how much 
simple&short will be a D implementation of the "Image Noise" task?

Even if D will not have a built-in GUI kit included in its standard 
distribution zip, is it worth having in Phobos a basic graphics interface, so 
writing simple graphics programs will be standard, regardless the usage of GTK, 
WX, Aero, or other systems under it?


I'm 100% for this proposal. Not necessarily in Phobos -- but having such a tool 
available for quick&  easy graphical output, such as drawing a function's 
curve, is definitely a great idea.

Now, the PureBasic example does this via a GUI/event loop window. It's not what 
I have in mind for my use cases. Rather, I would be in favor of a simple 
graphic frame that could be used like in good old times we used to draw 
directly on the video -- when this was easy to do, just using x,y pixel 
coordinates. Optionnally, a set of plotting/drawing routines, including vector 
image primitives.
(An inspiration for this may be Logo.)

I have no idea how to implement the base graphic frame, but once it's in place, 
I would certainly help in feeding the module with useful routines.

Denis
-- -- -- -- -- -- --
vit esse estrany ☣

spir.wikidot.com




I'm working on some basic graphic-routines in d
inspired by
http://www.antigrain.com/

Maybe this will be helpfull!

Re: Basic standard graphics

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 13.11.2010 14:03, schrieb Peter Alexander:

On 13/11/10 11:14 AM, Matthias Pleh wrote:

I'm working on some basic graphic-routines in d
inspired by
http://www.antigrain.com/

Maybe this will be helpfull!


Are you building it on top of an existing window/video layer (e.g. SDL)?



I try to make platform-files for x11,win32,mac and sdl.
But only for testing the graphic-allgorythms.
The library itself should be platform-independent!!

But for now I'm only working on the win32 part

Re: Hacking on DMD

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 13.11.2010 14:17, schrieb div0:

On 13/11/2010 07:46, Matthias Pleh wrote:

Am 13.11.2010 05:18, schrieb Nick Sabalausky:

"div0" wrote in message
news:ibjef2$60...@digitalmars.com...

On 12/11/2010 05:05, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

"div0" wrote in message
news:ibi2n1$7j...@digitalmars.com...

Is there an official guide to DMD source wiki page or mailing list?

I've been mucking about w/ DMD the last few days and I'm breaking
it in
new and interesting ways.

It would be nice not to let that effort go to waste;

I've created VS project files, a UML-ish diagram to the source and
there's
various places where extra asserts& error messages could be
inserted to
safe guard against people doing stupid things, i.e. everything I've
done
so far w.r.t to changing the code.



http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?DMDSourceGuide



Ah sweet. Ty. I did look on there but I couldn't find it.


It doesn't seem to be linked from anywhere. I first found it by someone
posting a link in this NG, and in my message abive I had to find it by
googling. I'm not sure where on the wiki a link to it would actually
belong,
though.




I think, we should restruct the left menu on the wiki-page, so that such
entries are easier to find!


I added a link to it from one the sections about DMD.
Seemed like the most appropriate place; using the search on the wiki
itself also didn't find it.



I've added a link for 'Language Development' on 'Development' in the 
sidebar.

Re: DMD Automatic Dependency Linking

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 16.11.2010 18:38, schrieb Travis:



The one thing I have been wondering however is why doesn't DMD have a flag for
easy project building which compiles dependencies in a single command.


[...]


Thanks,
tbone




Have you tried 'rdmd' ?

Re: "In praise of Go" discussion on ycombinator

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 17.11.2010 14:55, schrieb Steven Schveighoffer:

Being someone who likes the "brace-on-its-own-line" style


i++

greets
Matthias

Re: Looking for champion - std.lang.d.lex

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 20.11.2010 00:56, schrieb Michael Stover:

so that was 4 months ago - how do things currently stand on that initiative?

-Mike

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Bruno Medeiros
 wrote:

On 19/11/2010 22:25, Michael Stover wrote:

As for D lexers and tokenizers, what would be nice is to
A) build an antlr grammar for D
B) build D targets for antlr so that antlr can generate lexers and
parsers in the D language.

For B) I found http://www.mbutscher.de/antlrd/index.html

For A) A good list of antlr grammars is at
http://www.antlr.org/grammar/list, but there isn't a D grammar.

These things wouldn't be an enormous amount of work to create and
maintain, and, if done, anyone could parse D code in many languages,
including Java and C which would make providing IDE features for D
development easier in those languages (eclipse for instance),
and you
could build lexers and parsers in D using antlr grammars.

-Mike


Yes, that would be much better. It would be directly and immediately
useful for the DDT project:

"But better yet would be to start coding our own custom parser
(using a parser generator like ANTLR for example), that could really
be tailored for IDE needs. In the medium/long term, that's probably
what needs to be done. "
in

http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/ide/Future_of_Descent_and_D_Eclipse_IDE_635.html

--
Bruno Medeiros - Software Engineer




There is a project with an antlr D-grammar in work.
http://code.google.com/p/vs-d-integration/

Maybe this can be finished?

matthias

Re: Please comment on http://d-programming-language.org/

[Matthias Pleh]

On 2010-12-31 10:45, Thomas Mader wrote:

[...]


How about a new logo for D in general? Are there any plans to make a
contest or something similar to create a new D logo which has a modern
looking design?


vote ++



I also think that making the site valid is a very important thing, so
are there any plans to do so? If nobody wants it to do I could help.


I think a better marketing of the D community would not only attract 
more developers but also web-designer, maintainer, packager, 
content-writer, ...



BTW:
> Am 2010-09-02 14:46, schrieb retard:
>> We need a more professional looking SVG version of the D man then!

... there is already a SVG logo for the D-man since 5 years, but 
obviousily it get not adopted :/

http://w148.de/~mmartin/d/logo.html

Re: Please comment on http://d-programming-language.org/

[Matthias Pleh]

On 2010-12-31 11:40, Thomas Mader wrote:

Am 2010-12-31 11:35, schrieb Matthias Pleh:

On 2010-12-31 10:45, Thomas Mader wrote:

I also think that making the site valid is a very important thing, so
are there any plans to do so? If nobody wants it to do I could help.


I think a better marketing of the D community would not only attract
more developers but also web-designer, maintainer, packager,
content-writer, ...



With valid i mean html/css validation.


Yea, I know.
But a good working website is an important part of a good marketing.

Re: Please comment on http://d-programming-language.org/

[Matthias Pleh]

BTW:
> Am 2010-09-02 14:46, schrieb retard:
>> We need a more professional looking SVG version of the D man then!

... there is already a SVG logo for the D-man since 5 years, but
obviousily it get not adopted :/
http://w148.de/~mmartin/d/logo.html


Looks good. May I use it on d-programming-language.org?

Andrei


This should be answered by Marcel Martin. (I will send a copy of this 
email to the email-address on the website)



I've found this image through this website:
http://dlogo.chinese-blog.org/

greets
Matthias

Re: Smartphones and D

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 30.01.2011 06:50, schrieb Jonathan M Davis:

I suspect that gdc can do it, since it's using gcc for
its backend, but I don't know.


There is already someone who has tried to build an arm-crosscompiler 
with gdc!

See last post 'Building an ARM cross compiler' on the D.gnu maillinglist

Matthias

Re: VisualD Console WIndow Disappears

[Matthias Pleh]

On 15.02.2012 08:27, RedShift wrote:

So, I'm just starting to get into D, using the extension for VS called
Visual D. Is there any way to stop the console from disappearing like in
C++? Like C + F5 (which doesn't seem to work). Or like a getline?


This sort of question is better fittet in d.D.learn newsgroup,
but anyway, I think this helps:


import std.stdio;
import std.c.stdlib;  // import for system

int main(string[] argv)
{
writeln("Hello D-World!");
system("PAUSE");
return 0;
}


^^Matthias

Re: Windows API Translation

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 08.02.2011 22:37, schrieb Stewart Gordon:

On 08/02/2011 12:25, Trass3r wrote:

I wonder if these bindings would be suitable for inclusion in the
core.sys.windows package?


They definitely need to be merged.


Merged? The whole point of the bindings project is that it will one day
be complete. As such, it needs to _replace_ the current std.c.windows.*
and core.sys.windows.*.

Stewart.


VisualD has some code for automated winapi-conversion:

to build the necessary D translations from the Windows and Visual 
Studio SDK


http://www.dsource.org/projects/visuald/wiki/Build_from_source


greets
Matthias

Re: DMD versions

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 18.02.2011 13:51, schrieb Steven Schveighoffer:

On Fri, 18 Feb 2011 07:36:18 -0500, Russel Winder 
wrote:


What is the official way of programmatically determining the version
number of the currently executing dmd?

Thanks.



AFAIK, there isn't a way. You can only determine D2 vs D1.

It would be a good feature to add to druntime though. Since druntime is
inextricably linked with dmd, you could define an enum with the minor
version.

I remember Tango does this.

-Steve




There is the special Token __VERSION__ which gives an integer.

http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/lex.html

greets
Matthias

Re: [GSoC] Container proposals by Ishan and Christian

[Matthias Pleh]

On 2011-04-03 21:05, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:

I think it's not too late to improve our GSoC ideas page


So here come my ideas



There is still the lack of a good D Gui Library.
Currently some GUI's are still under development (most projects on 
dsoure are abandoned!), but none of them are really perfect D-GUI's

* GtkD -> good and stable, but a D wrapper around a C-library
* DWT  -> also good, but a port from Java and not really D-like coded
* DFL  -> windows only, a way too .Net-like, is currently not very 
active (abandoned?)
* ... all others I know are unmature and abandoned (tell me, if I'm 
wrong here!)


So there comes 2 ideas to my mind:


- Abstraction Layer for OS independent (Win/Linux/OSX/?) GUI development
  * Just basic structures/functions/classes for Window creation,
  event handling, ...
  This could be used not only by a Standard-D-Gui-library,
  but also by other Gui-libraries for D

- Design of a OS independent GUI-toolkit
  * class-diagramm, basicstuctures, ...

This could be the beginning of a Community-driven development of a good 
D-GUI-library which eventualy could find its way into phobos ... ?

Re: [GSoC] Container proposals by Ishan and Christian

[Matthias Pleh]

On 2011-04-03 23:23, Matthias Pleh wrote:

* GtkD -> good and stable, but a D wrapper around a C-library
* DWT  -> also good, but a port from Java and not really D-like coded
* DFL  -> windows only, a way too .Net-like, is currently not very
active (abandoned?)


Ok, I've forgotten some

* QtD  -> the same as GtkD, just a wrapper
* dgui -> windows only, also really .Net-like
Maybe there are more?

Re: [GSoC] Container proposals by Ishan and Christian

[Matthias Pleh]

On 2011-04-03 23:48, spir wrote:

(Meaning a standard GUI-programming interface for D.)


Yes, exactly! Just a really small Api to abstract the OS.
- Application -> as a representation for the process
- Window -> create, show, hide
- Canvas/Image -> to draw on
+ No buttons/textbox or other widgets, this would be part of the higher 
level
  (some GUI's on this basic API could use native controls / others may 
draw it itself / or draw it with GPU ...


I mean, there were several attempts to create a GUI, each with a 
different approach, and most of them are unfinished and abandoned.

This could be a base for all GUI's

> A fairly big project, I guess! (even for a toy...)

It haven't to be complete. Just a start, with the most important corner 
cases.



- Matthias

Re: DGui

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 04.04.2011 07:16, schrieb Nick Sabalausky:

Windows 98 look. :p

Best window skin ever to come out of MS.




That's true.
I still use it in my daily work.
At home linux of course. :)

Re: [GSoC] Container proposals by Ishan and Christian

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 04.04.2011 01:09, schrieb Daniel Gibson:

I agree.
And please: let's not do it the Java Swing way, i.e. look and feel
crappy and out of place on any platform for the sake of being consistent
between platforms.



Java Swing is an extreme example. Everything is selfdrawn.
Qt makes it much better. Most widgets are selfdrawn. Only some use the 
native widgets, e.g. Filepicker, ContextMenu, ...



Matthias

Re: i like cakes

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 04.04.2011 21:03, schrieb Daniel Gibson:

And on the other hand there's Gary Whatmore and his army of sockpuppets
voting down D critics and giving the whole community a bad name with his
extreme (pseudo-?) fanboyism.


Just one silly person, who is running
http://redditroll.com/salespage/

Re: i like cakes

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 04.04.2011 21:34, schrieb Steven Schveighoffer:


So 100 people get to have redditroll


It's obviously, that he will sell more than this 100 copies ... (or try 
to sell)

GUI library for D

[Matthias Pleh]

was: [GSoC] Container proposals by Ishan and Christian

To preventing losing this thread, I have created a new one ...
Additional, I've added a license column on the GuiLibraries-table on the 
wiki.


So, let me summarize my thoughts, why I think a good Gui library is 
important for the D community.
I'm working for an enginge builder company. Our product is mainly 
mechanical, but also has a software part, which is created and 
maintained by a 16 (and growing) man team. Our softwareproduct is mainly 
server-side and timecritical, written in C++/MFC and very old. We've 
decided to create it new from scratch. As a member of the design team of 
this new project I've tried to inturoduce D for this. But it was 
impossible to assure the others. The main counter-argument was the lack 
of a good D-Gui library, though the main part is serverside, but the 
client-side GUI have to be written in the same language.


This were the requirments for the GUI library:
- Corss-platform (Win/linux)
- not just a port, but adjusted to the language
- mostly written in this language, so you can easy debug the lib,
  this means no wrapper library, just system libraries
  (Though gtk+ on linux would hold as a system library so GtkD for 
linux would be OK, but not on Windows!

- obviously suitable license for a commercial product

Unfortunately All known GUI-libraries for D fails on this requirments
So the choice has fallen to C++/Qt

I would like to fill this gap and create a really good D GUI library

Any thoughts, comments ... ?


°Matthias

Re: GUI library for D

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 04.04.2011 23:34, schrieb Daniel Gibson:

Am 04.04.2011 23:27, schrieb Matthias Pleh:

was: [GSoC] Container proposals by Ishan and Christian


[snip]


This were the requirments for the GUI library:
- Corss-platform (Win/linux)


Don't forget Mac OSX.
I just listed the requirments in our company, but you're rigth. We must 
support at least the three main platforms Win/linux/OSX



Also note that on Linux there are two widely used toolkits, GTK and Qt,
and that QT is better in emulating GTK than the other way round (you can
let GTK use the current QT theme or something, but it'll still use the
GTK filepicker etc. QT's GTK emulation is better and uses the real GTK
filepicker).

that's true




[snip]


I don't know if wee need yet another GUI library.

I have not said, that it must be create a completly new library.
We just have to find out, what are the requirments for the D community, 
and how can we achieve that.

Whe have mainly 4 options:
- support an existing project and help to meet our requirments
- fork an existing project and advance it to our requirments
- port a library from another language and advance it, to meet better
  the D coding style
- create a new library (which also can be based on a older abandoned
  project)


Are you sure Qt and DWT aren't good enough?
As I mentioned in my post, I couldn't assure the others. Not every 
decision-maker base his decisions on pure technical arguments, sometimes 
it's just his gut feeling or the cleaning lady's advice, who knows :)


°Matthias

Re: GUI library for D

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 05.04.2011 00:14, schrieb Daniel Gibson:

Maybe your company could help the DWT or QtD guys?
Getting something stable out of that would most probably not take as
long as developing your own cross-platform GUI toolkit.
Furthermore many people are already familiar with SWT and Qt, so they
wouldn't have to learn another toolkit for D.


You have missed the point. For our company the decision is made. We 
already use C++/Qt now.
But I really like the D programming language and I use it for all my 
private projects. So I think, we, as the D community, should create a 
modern D GUI library entirely written in D.

Re: GUI library for D

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 05.04.2011 00:35, schrieb Alvaro:

El 04/04/2011 23:51, Matthias Pleh escribió:

Am 04.04.2011 23:34, schrieb Daniel Gibson:

Am 04.04.2011 23:27, schrieb Matthias Pleh:

was: [GSoC] Container proposals by Ishan and Christian


[snip]


This were the requirments for the GUI library:
- Corss-platform (Win/linux)


Don't forget Mac OSX.

I just listed the requirments in our company, but you're rigth. We must
support at least the three main platforms Win/linux/OSX


Also note that on Linux there are two widely used toolkits, GTK and Qt,
and that QT is better in emulating GTK than the other way round (you can
let GTK use the current QT theme or something, but it'll still use the
GTK filepicker etc. QT's GTK emulation is better and uses the real GTK
filepicker).

that's true




[snip]


I don't know if wee need yet another GUI library.

I have not said, that it must be create a completly new library.
We just have to find out, what are the requirments for the D community,
and how can we achieve that.
Whe have mainly 4 options:
- support an existing project and help to meet our requirments
- fork an existing project and advance it to our requirments
- port a library from another language and advance it, to meet better
the D coding style
- create a new library (which also can be based on a older abandoned
project)


Are you sure Qt and DWT aren't good enough?

As I mentioned in my post, I couldn't assure the others. Not every
decision-maker base his decisions on pure technical arguments, sometimes
it's just his gut feeling or the cleaning lady's advice, who knows :)

°Matthias


Why do you say "it must be a completely new library"? Why don't the
existing ones fit?

No, see above, supporting an existing library would also fit.



I last week tried gtkD, both on Linux and Windows. Quite nice, only I
don't really like how it looks on Windows, that it can't use the native
controls. And then there is QtD and wxD (from wxWidgets) both using
native controls.

Anyway I think I know what you mean by "the D coding style". All those
are direct ports/bindings that retain their original style and don't
really take advantage of D's facilities.
Yes exactly. The argument by others was, that a community which is not 
able to create their own library, coded in their own style, will not 
survive.




For instance, in gtkD (QtD probably too, haven't looked at it), classes
have classic functions for accessing and modifying "properties", like
window.setTitle("Find"); w=window.getWidth(). But D provides real
@properties. That could be improved to window.title = "Find";
w=window.width; Etc, etc.

The use of properties, delegates for event handlers, D's Unicode
strings, etc. could certainly be improved in libs like those. But anyway
they have done a great job in providing D with working GUI APIs.


Don't get me wrong. GtkD perfectly meets my personal taste and I would 
have used this library for our project. But others are more cautios and 
have really strong requirments for such a projects (Note, this is one 
big project with much more than 500.000 LOC), so we _already_ have 
choosen C++/Qt !!


I think other companies will have similar decision. So, I think, to help 
D to get more accepted in the buisiness world, one requirement would be 
a good GUI library.


°Matthias

Re: GUI library for D

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 05.04.2011 08:20, schrieb Kagamin:

Matthias Pleh Wrote:


This were the requirments for the GUI library:
- Corss-platform (Win/linux)
- not just a port, but adjusted to the language
- mostly written in this language, so you can easy debug the lib,
this means no wrapper library, just system libraries
(Though gtk+ on linux would hold as a system library so GtkD for
linux would be OK, but not on Windows!
- obviously suitable license for a commercial product

Unfortunately All known GUI-libraries for D fails on this requirments
So the choice has fallen to C++/Qt


Qt doesn't fulfill the requirement for "just system libraries".



This were the requirments for the GUI library:


Qt is here not the requirement, but rather the GUI library itself

Re: GUI library for D

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 05.04.2011 10:43, schrieb Jacob Carlborg:


Why is C++/Qt good enough but not D/Qt ?


As I mentioned before, I could live with such a solution.
When we decided our strategy one year ago, QtD was far away from ready 
but gtkD was already usable and stable. I was the one how recommend the 
use of D/gtkD. But there exist developers and manager, who _don't_ want 
an ecosystem with different languages. (That's not my opinion, but the 
meaning of our lead developer and our managers)

So this means:
- D solution:
gtkD   -> D
gtk+   -> c
phobos -> D
perhabs other libraries needed?
- C++ solution:
Qt  -> C++
STL -> C++
  optional:
Boost   -> C++


This is also the reason why so many developers like VisualStudio and 
.Net! You install it and you have everything needed from one hand.

- IDE
- .Net with networking, GUI , Filesystem, ... -> all coded in C# (except 
the winapi which is a system library)


Ok, I know, these peoples also are the one who don't know the power of a 
really good OS like linux.

In Ubuntu I just type:
$ sudo apt-get install qtcreator
and I have also everything installed I need for development.
But this is not the case on windows. Windows user thinks different.

So this discussion is really the same as Windows vs. linux.
There is always someone who persist on windows, regarless how good other 
systems are!


So I think for short or middle term such solution like gtkD, QtD, DWT 
are good, but for the long term the D community needs a D GUI library 
completly written in D.


Just my thoughts
°Matthias

Re: GUI library for D

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 05.04.2011 03:25, schrieb Michel Fortin:

On 2011-04-04 19:55:44 -0400, Adam Ruppe  said:


Michel Fortin wrote:

On the other hand, one thing that is missing right now, in D and in
most languages, is a standard way to display graphics.


Actually, I wrote something to do that last year, but I thought
it was too trivial to share.

What you do is just draw some RGB stuff to a big memory buffer. Then
you can save as bmp, png, or create a window to display it.

There was no interaction with the window, except closing it. You'd
pop up the window so the user can review the picture, then he closes
it and your program continues where it left off.

Changing it to allow some updating and interaction shouldn't be
too hard.

It worked for both win32 and x11, no libraries required.


Reminds me of David Simcha's plot2kill, which also has such a layer on
top of which it implements plot drawing.




The reason I wrote it was that I really miss the simplicity of DOS
programming, where with just a few lines of inline asm, you have
a dead-simple video buffer to play with.


Indeed. Today you generally have to pile up a lot of GUI code just to be
able to draw a square; all the simplicity is lost and portability is hard.

I think such a module would be a great addition to Phobos.



@Michael
Your right. That's what I've tried to say in my other thread. Just a 
_standard_ way to display graphics. This could be a base for other works.


@Adam
Have you some code around, which we can push further?


°Matthias

Re: GUI library for D

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 05.04.2011 04:39, schrieb Adam D. Ruppe:

Michel Fortin:

Reminds me of David Simcha's plot2kill, which also has such a layer
on top of which it implements plot drawing.


Aye, he and I have shared some code in the past.


I think such a module would be a great addition to Phobos.


If I can find a weekend, I'll see about quickly whipping it together
for a proposal. I don't know anything about Mac OSX though, so unless
the X11 will work there, I won't be able to provide any access to
that.


Yeah, would be cool if you could do that. I would like to write such a 
proposal myself, but since english is not my native language, it's 
better somone else do it. :)


°Matthias

Re: GUI library for D

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 05.04.2011 15:06, schrieb Jacob Carlborg:

On 2011-04-05 13:08, Matthias Pleh wrote:

So I think for short or middle term such solution like gtkD, QtD, DWT
are good, but for the long term the D community needs a D GUI library
completly written in D.

Just my thoughts
°Matthias



You do know that DWT is completely written in D? Don't you think we can
create an environment for creating D GUI applications using DWT?



Yes, that would be an option. I have thought several times about that.
But I think, to get really acceptet by a wide range of developers, the 
library must be adjusted, to suit better the D coding style. This way we 
could get the whole power of D. But this also means that you get more 
and more away from the java path and sometime you are not able any more 
to merge changes in the java path to D.

So this means, this would really be a fork, not just a port.
(I hope, I have explained it correctly in my broken english, and I hope 
it sound not rude :|



°Matthias

Re: GUI library for D

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 05.04.2011 23:08, schrieb Andrej Mitrovic:

Which reminds me.. who is in charge of the layout on the left side of
the Wiki? I think it would be nice to have a "Tutorials" link or
section put up there. Right now you can get to it by going through the
HowTo first.



Done!

P.S.: the main wiki-Template for wiki4d is on dTemplate
http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?dTemplate

But, be careful, you change the hole wiki!

°Matthias

Re: GUI library for D

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 05.04.2011 23:50, schrieb Adam D. Ruppe:

Matthias Pleh wrote:

Have you some code around, which we can push further?


Yeah, I'm porting one of the C components to D, then will post it
here.

(The D headers weren't good enough and I got lazy when copying them
over and decided to just write a couple of the functions in C instead.
I've already moved the X11 over to D, now need to do the same to
the Windows side.)



Are you talking about the dImage project, with the display-X11/win32 
backends, on you side?

Re: GUI library for D

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 06.04.2011 00:20, schrieb Adam D. Ruppe:

import simpledisplay;

void main() {
auto image = new Image(255, 255);

foreach(a; 0..255)
foreach(b; 0..255)
image.putPixel(a, b, Color(a, b, 0));

image.display();
}


Hey cool, this was a fast fix.
Thank's for sharing!


°Matthias

Re: GUI library for D

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 06.04.2011 00:41, schrieb Andrej Mitrovic:

the hole wiki!


I meant 'whole' of course

Should go to sleep ... ;)

Re: Settings in CodeBlocks -- D Language

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 06.04.2011 06:47, schrieb David Wang:

Dear all,

The CodeBlocks IDE supports DMD compiler and I've described the proper
settings for Codeblocks using in D Language.

Please visit the WiKi page here:

http://wiki.codeblocks.org/index.php?title=Installing_a_supported_compiler


BTW, the "Code Completion for D" isn't quite good now, and in future it will
be improved.



Best regards.
David.



Really cool, if someone could improve CodeBlocks in this direction.
We would have a good crossplatform IDE.

BTW:
Would be good, if you also can keep our wiki for CodeBlocks up to date.


http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?EditorSupport
http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?EditorSupport/CodeBlocks


°Matthias

Re: Settings in CodeBlocks -- D Language

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 06.04.2011 09:32, schrieb David Wang:

===
BTW:
Would be good, if you also can keep our wiki for CodeBlocks up to
date.


http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?EditorSupport
http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?EditorSupport/CodeBlocks

===

Because I have a user ID in codeblocks.forum, so I can add the
settings for D into codeblocks's WiKi page.

I don't have a wiki4d ID, so I think the better way is to copy the
corresponding sections os codeblocks's WiKi page into the wiki4d
page by yourself or someone whom has an ID of wiki4d.


Best regards.
David.


There is no ID needed for wiki4d. Just enter your name as CamelCase 
(e.g.: DavidWang) without any password.




°Matthias

Re: GUI library for D

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 06.04.2011 09:00, schrieb Jacob Carlborg:


I think gtkD is out of the question since it's not using native
controls. Don't know about QtD, if I recall correctly it, at least,
looks quite native. But I would guess it would too hard to find whole
int that, specially on Mac OS X.



Qt (and so QtD) use some native controls for Dialogs, e.g.: FilePicker, 
colorPicker, ... but most controls are drawn by the PaintEnginge. But Qt 
make really good job in imitating the native Theme. (except OSX, which 
is a little bit special)

Re: GUI library for D

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 06.04.2011 11:40, schrieb Nick Sabalausky:

"Matthias Pleh"  wrote in message
news:inh91t$1854$1...@digitalmars.com...

Am 06.04.2011 09:00, schrieb Jacob Carlborg:


I think gtkD is out of the question since it's not using native
controls. Don't know about QtD, if I recall correctly it, at least,
looks quite native. But I would guess it would too hard to find whole
int that, specially on Mac OS X.



Qt (and so QtD) use some native controls for Dialogs, e.g.: FilePicker,
colorPicker, ... but most controls are drawn by the PaintEnginge. But Qt
make really good job in imitating the native Theme. (except OSX, which is
a little bit special)



My understanding is that Qt also has a compile-time flag that will make it
actually use the real Win32 controls.




No! When compiling the Qt-library, you can specify a flag for the theme 
to build. The controls appears then with this theme.


On windows you can easaly test this, with Spy++.
I've just created a simple window with 
QHBoxLayout,QGridLayout,QGroupbox,Qlabel,QLineEdit,QTextEdit.

But ther is only one win32-control and this is the main-window!
You can see this also on the traffic of the windowsmessages.
This is so on Windows, maybe Qt use more native controls on other platforms?

The problem with OSX is, as I know, that some controls not only look 
different, but are also different arranged, and this make it more 
difficult to emulate.


°Matthias

Re: GUI library for D

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 06.04.2011 14:49, schrieb Michel Fortin:

 final class Bitmap(Color) : Image {
 void opIndexAssign(int x, int y, Color color) {
 pixels[y * width + x] = Color(color);
 }

 size_t width, height;
 Color[] pixels;
 }



Yep, exactly. I would implement it as template.

About the render backend, Nick mentioned.
In the first step, I would just draw all objects (lines, boxes, circles) 
to the buffer and then render it as image per gdi/xlib.


this render should ideally be in a single file, so other backends can be 
implemented (gdi/direct2d/cairo/xcb/cocoa/..)



°Matthias

Re: GUI library for D

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 06.04.2011 15:21, schrieb Jacob Carlborg:

On 2011-04-06 13:38, Matthias Pleh wrote:

Am 06.04.2011 11:40, schrieb Nick Sabalausky:

"Matthias Pleh" wrote in message
news:inh91t$1854$1...@digitalmars.com...

Am 06.04.2011 09:00, schrieb Jacob Carlborg:


I think gtkD is out of the question since it's not using native
controls. Don't know about QtD, if I recall correctly it, at least,
looks quite native. But I would guess it would too hard to find whole
int that, specially on Mac OS X.



Qt (and so QtD) use some native controls for Dialogs, e.g.: FilePicker,
colorPicker, ... but most controls are drawn by the PaintEnginge.
But Qt
make really good job in imitating the native Theme. (except OSX,
which is
a little bit special)



My understanding is that Qt also has a compile-time flag that will
make it
actually use the real Win32 controls.




No! When compiling the Qt-library, you can specify a flag for the theme
to build. The controls appears then with this theme.

On windows you can easaly test this, with Spy++.
I've just created a simple window with
QHBoxLayout,QGridLayout,QGroupbox,Qlabel,QLineEdit,QTextEdit.
But ther is only one win32-control and this is the main-window!
You can see this also on the traffic of the windowsmessages.
This is so on Windows, maybe Qt use more native controls on other
platforms?

The problem with OSX is, as I know, that some controls not only look
different, but are also different arranged, and this make it more
difficult to emulate.

°Matthias


DWT handles that fine.




Yeah, that's true.
You will only get the real platform feeling, when you use the native 
controls. I was always irritated by the unusual widget of swing.

So such an approach like DWT looks always handier, but don't forget,
you have to maintain all that code for _all_ platforms.
You always get pro's and con's.

°Matthias

Re: GUI library for D

[Matthias Pleh]

Yes that's true. I don't know how much different it would be compared to
a non-native framework since there you have all the different themes to
maintain.



Maybe, the best aproach would be, when you implement the basic framework 
flexible. E.g. a default rendering engine, where you can

draw you own controls, but keep it possible to add native controls.
So you always choose the best way, if a platform bring out a new control 
or a new look. But I down't know, if such different approaches

cann merged together?


BTW: under what license is DWT?
Can part of it relicensed under boost? (e.g. if we would reuse part of it)


°Matthias

Re: GUI library for D

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 06.04.2011 17:35, schrieb Michel Fortin:

On 2011-04-06 10:25:42 -0400, Matthias Pleh  said:


Am 06.04.2011 14:49, schrieb Michel Fortin:

final class Bitmap(Color) : Image {
void opIndexAssign(int x, int y, Color color) {
pixels[y * width + x] = Color(color);
}

size_t width, height;
Color[] pixels;
}


Yep, exactly. I would implement it as template.

About the render backend, Nick mentioned.
In the first step, I would just draw all objects (lines, boxes,
circles) to the buffer and then render it as image per gdi/xlib.

this render should ideally be in a single file, so other backends can
be implemented (gdi/direct2d/cairo/xcb/cocoa/..)


Since you're at it, have you considered making the API flexible enough
so it could support vector images too?

// return an object derived from image depending on the actual file type
Image im = loadImage("filename");

// creating a bitmap for on-screen rendering
auto bitmap = new Bitmap!RGBColor(im.width, im.height);

// base image class has a virtual function to draw itself on a bitmap at
// a given location, so it's easy to draw it on screen
im.draw(10, 10, bitmap);




Yep, definitley this would be an issue to place on the todo-list.
But let's just start with a basic implementation with simple raster 
graphics, but always in mind to extand it in the future.
BTW: to implement the whole SVG specification, that would be a huge 
project, but basic vector drawings would be definitive a nice thing to have.


°Matthias

Re: GUI library for D

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 06.04.2011 22:50, schrieb David Nadlinger:

On 4/6/11 10:41 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

I don't think having fixed-size image will be a useful optimization,
except perhaps if you manipulate a lot of tiny images of the same size.



Manipulating images in software involves accessing a *lot* of pixels,
so you
have a very big "inner loop" situation. If the width isn't
statically-known,
then:[…]


If you want to write something generic that actually performs well, the
Adobe/Boost »Generic Image Library« might be an interesting example:
www.boost.org/doc/libs/release/libs/gil/doc/index.html

David



Thank's for sharing. Seems to be a cool project.
I will have a look at it.

°Matthias

Re: GUI library for D

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 07.04.2011 21:38, schrieb Bruno Medeiros:

On 05/04/2011 14:06, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

On 2011-04-05 13:08, Matthias Pleh wrote:

So I think for short or middle term such solution like gtkD, QtD, DWT
are good, but for the long term the D community needs a D GUI library
completly written in D.

Just my thoughts
°Matthias



You do know that DWT is completely written in D?



Really? What about the parts of SWT that written in C? Or are those very
small compared to the whole codebase?





http://www.ohloh.net/p/swt/analyses/latest
http://www.ohloh.net/p/DWT/analyses/latest


greets
°Matthias

Re: GUI library for D

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 08.04.2011 00:08, schrieb Matthias Pleh:

Am 07.04.2011 21:38, schrieb Bruno Medeiros:

On 05/04/2011 14:06, Jacob Carlborg wrote:

On 2011-04-05 13:08, Matthias Pleh wrote:

So I think for short or middle term such solution like gtkD, QtD, DWT
are good, but for the long term the D community needs a D GUI library
completly written in D.

Just my thoughts
°Matthias



You do know that DWT is completely written in D?



Really? What about the parts of SWT that written in C? Or are those very
small compared to the whole codebase?





http://www.ohloh.net/p/swt/analyses/latest
http://www.ohloh.net/p/DWT/analyses/latest


greets
°Matthias



BTW: 1.4 MLOC is really a huge codebase.
Hats off! You make a good job guys.


°Matthias

Re: GUI library for D

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 08.04.2011 00:27, schrieb Andrej Mitrovic:

DWT is 3x the codebase size of SWT? 0o



Maybe the old portet versions in the branches directory?

Re: GCC 4.6

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 01.04.2011 02:50, schrieb bearophile:

inventing new language features for D3


Why do you always mention D3.
I always hated the M$ strategy to release every 2 years a new C#/.Net 
version.
I'm satisfied with D2, and let's improve it in quality not in quantity 
of features.



just my 2 cents
°Matthias

Re: simple display (from: GUI library for D)

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 09.04.2011 03:55, schrieb Michel Fortin:

On 2011-04-08 21:45:20 -0400, Adam D. Ruppe 
said:


Michel Fortin wrote:

One issue is that different operating system will draw things with
slightly different algorithms, which will result in slightly different
images, which might introduce glitches from platform to platform.


I actually hit an even bigger problem... Xlib can't actually draw
to XImages, and you don't have direct pixel access to XPixmaps
(it's the difference between being on the X Server and the client).

So, the lowest common denominator, using only system libraries, is
actually to allow *only* pixel access to Image, and move other
drawing over to the Window. (Specifically, a Painter struct that
ties to the window, so it can manage graphics contexts... yeah,
it's starting to get complicated again.)

What this means is if we want to draw to images, we've
got to spin our own algorithms. Which makes the different OS
algorithms moot - the direct screen drawing will be different, but
the images will all be the same. The downside is their functions
will lag a bit since I can't just wrap some C calls.


Personally, I wouldn't even bother with direct screen drawing in that
case. Direct screen drawing will need a different implementation for
each OS, which means a lot of duplicated effort that could be put in
implementing dependency-less cross-platform drawing primitives instead.

As for text, which library does the X server uses to draw text?
Freetype? You could link directly to it when you need to draw text...
and on other OS use similar OS services.




For the drawingt part. I'm currently working on a rednerer with scanline 
algorithm. This will be completly OS-independent. It's in a single file 
with 2kLOC, and rather low level drawing. I just render on a simple 
ubyte-array, but it already support polygon-rendering, antialiasing and 
different color-structs.


This is how it looks like for now:
http://img683.imageshack.us/i/testawa.jpg/
this takes currently 62ms to render, don't know if this is fast enough,
but can definitley improved.

°Matthias

Re: simple display (from: GUI library for D)

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 09.04.2011 13:11, schrieb Michel Fortin:

On 2011-04-08 22:31:11 -0400, Matthias Pleh  said:


For the drawingt part. I'm currently working on a rednerer with
scanline algorithm. This will be completly OS-independent. It's in a
single file with 2kLOC, and rather low level drawing. I just render on
a simple ubyte-array, but it already support polygon-rendering,
antialiasing and different color-structs.


Oh! really nice.



This is how it looks like for now:
http://img683.imageshack.us/i/testawa.jpg/
this takes currently 62ms to render, don't know if this is fast enough,
but can definitley improved.


The important thing is to have an API. Once it works we can concern
ourselves with speed. What's the API like?





Currntly, it's rather low level API.
It looks like this:

void draw()
{
buf = new ubyte[width * height * 3];
// create render buffer, just a ubyte-arrray (no color info)
PixelBuffer pixBuff = new PixelBuffer(buf, width, height, width*3);

auto ren= new Renderer!(Rgb24)(pixBuff);  // -> Rgb24
  // manages the correct Color
Rasterizer ras = new Rasterizer;

// create the path
// per primitive min. 3 vertexes needed
ras.movTo(20,40);  // -> moves the point without drawing
ras.lineTo(30,80); // -> moves the point with drawing
[...snip...]

// finally render it to the PixelBuffer
ras.render(ren, Color(255,0,0));
}

on this we could add more abstraction to directly render lines, 
rectangles and circles ... (the posted image is completly renderd

whit the API above)

I hope, I will find time this weekend, clean it up and post it here.
Maybe Adam then could add it to his source.


°Matthias

Re: "Try it now"

[Matthias Pleh]

[..snip..]

Hey, that's so awesome, guys!
Keep up that work :)

°Matthias

Re: D is back on Tiobe, now in position 23

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 21.05.2011 08:02, schrieb Russel Winder:

On Fri, 2011-05-20 at 22:19 +0100, Robert Clipsham wrote:
[ . . . ]

And yes, I know TIOBE is a completely useless index (read that as a list
of sophisticated arguments you've read before about it rather than a
single sentence :3)


I disagree that it is useless.  It is interesting on two grounds:

1.  If you have any sort of idea about what they are actually measuring
and are careful no to over-infer, it is a very interesting measure of
what is interesting to people in the Web-verse.  It is a measure of
"buzz".

2.  It is interesting to see how people who have no idea of what is
actually being measured use the results for decision making.  There is
an interesting ebb and flow between reinforcement of the status quo and
promoting innovation.  Also there is the ability to manipulate the
system as Go did last year.

Obviously though there are dangers . . .



The first 100 pages per search engine are checked for possible false 
positives and this is used to define the confidence factor.



http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinf/tpci/tpci_definition.htm


'd programming' gives ca. 81.300.300 results on google ...

_
Matthias

Re: DUDA

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 15.05.2012 10:22, schrieb "Anders Sjögren" ":

On Tuesday, 15 May 2012 at 02:36:25 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:

Thanks, now I can't get "Camptown Races" out of my head!

;)


;-)


Doo-dah! doo-dah!
;)

Re: [OT] Windows users: Are you happy with git?

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 18.05.2012 15:48, schrieb Christian Manning:

On Friday, 18 May 2012 at 07:58:26 UTC, Lars T. Kyllingstad wrote:

I remember back when we were considering whether to move DMD, Phobos
and druntime from SVN on DSource to Git on GitHub, there were some
concerns about using Git on Windows. People claimed that Git was a
very Linux-centric tool, and that Windows support was buggy at best.

Still, we made the switch, and I haven't really registered that many
complaints since. So now I'm curious: Windows users, have you just
resigned, or did Git actually turn out to work well on Windows?
Specifically, is it usable from the CMD command line, and are
graphical front-ends such as TortoiseGit any good? (I know running it
through Cygwin works well, but that doesn't count.)

-Lars


Git-Extensions works pretty well, especially with its Visual Studio +
PuTTY integration. It uses msysgit under the bonnet IIRC


We mainly use Git-Extensions
http://code.google.com/p/gitextensions/
 + openSSH and it works great. You can also
interchange both, Git-Extension and CLI, on the same project. (this 
wasn't the case with SVN + TortoiseSVN)


I personally prefer the CLI, you know what you are doing, but most of 
the Windows-dev-folks like to use a GUI.

Re: D brand identity repository

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 03.07.2011 00:00, schrieb James Fisher:


WRT the code sample, I think I remember seeing somewhere a web-hosted D
installation? This for Go  is one of my
favourite features of their site (shame about the language itself).
  Such a thing for D would be a big attraction.



Adam Ruppe is working on that ... I thought, its already installed on 
d-p-l.org, but it seems not ...


To your 'mockup.png' -> I already like your style, it's simple and 
beautiful. Keep up that great work.



From the logos, I would prefer
https://github.com/eegg/d-brand/raw/master/d-logo-9.png

Re: I'm holding it in my hands

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 10.06.2010 11:50, schrieb Rory McGuire:

I cancelled my order with amazon and bought it on informit. Its already
shipped. and I bought it yesturday.



On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 23:37:20 +0200, filgood  wrote:


It's worse in the UK:

Not yet dispatched
Dispatch Estimate: 28 July 2010 - 29 July 2010

Delivery Estimate: 3 Aug 2010 - 6 Aug 2010

~ Filip



Thanks for your information.

Now I also canceled on amazon and orderd on informit.
They deliver faster and its *cheaper*

BTW: I don't understand the difference of 2 month for the publishing.
amazon.de:28.Juli
informit.com:  2.Juni  (shipping: 3-7 workdays!!)


greets
Matthias

Re: Price drop for TDPL on Amazon to $41.10

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 14.06.2010 22:53, schrieb "Jérôme M. Berger":

Steven Schveighoffer wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 13:42:20 -0400, Walter Bright
  wrote:


I see Amazon has two "used" copies at $77.14.

Why would anyone try to sell a copy at double the price of new, when
the new is in stock and shipping?


Probably the same reason the ask prices for stock go up to 100 times
their value at the end of the day.  Some people are dumb, and click
without thinking.


Did you see the copies at $444 on amazon.com and £444 on amazon.co.uk?

Jerome


These must be computed prices, based on the bestseller lists, and since 
this book is just released and already in top 100 (currently #88) in 
Programming/Language and Tools (complete 24,029) ...  :)


greets
Matthias

D on langpop.com

[Matthias Pleh]

I think most of us knows the popularity index site tiobe.com
( http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html )

But does anyone know the site
langpop.com

It's very interesting how popular D is on different community sites.

Re: D on langpop.com

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 06.07.2010 11:34, schrieb Matthias Pleh:

I think most of us knows the popularity index site tiobe.com
( http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html )

But does anyone know the site
langpop.com

It's very interesting how popular D is on different community sites.



http://langpop.com/

Re: Where do I post website bugs?

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 30.08.2010 19:34, schrieb Andrei Alexandrescu:

On 8/30/10 12:28 PDT, Adam B wrote:

Thanks. I'll use the puremagic issue tracker. And by the way, if
http://www.d-programming-language.org holds a proposed style change
I'll vote for it! It feels much more modern and polished. That said,
having two similar but different websites adds yet another layer of
confusion about where to get accurate information on the D language.
This has been one of my primary frustrations with trying to learn D
2.0.


I hear you. The long-term plan is to dedicate d-programming-language.org
as the primary D site. (It will be mirrored to digitalmars.com.)

Andrei



But please use a different favicon for the site. This current 'D' of 
digitalmars.com and d-programming-language.org looks really odd!


I have just created two version of a nicer D-icon with different size 
(16x16,32x32,48x48,64x64,128x128). Feel free to use it. I put it into 
public domain.


Matthias



http://i.imagehost.org/download/0416/favicon_1
http://a.imagehost.org/download/0498/favicon_v2

Re: Bizprac database.. Urgent

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 09.09.2010 12:33, schrieb Stephan:

On 08.09.2010 18:16, Simen kjaeraas wrote:

retard  wrote:


Wed, 08 Sep 2010 15:20:52 +0200, BLS wrote:

Wrong target audience?


Nein, wir sprechen ja hier alle Deutsch, ja?



echt hier sprechen alle Deutsch ? gut zu wissen ;)

was heißt hier Deutsch? wer spricht hier Deutsch?

Re: htod, no version for Linux?

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 17.08.2010 21:47, schrieb Paul Dufresne:

I downloaded htod.zip and found there is only htod.exe inside.
Any version for Linux?


Maybe it's to late for you, but I've discovered a small ruby-script 
(GPL'ed) in the dotmars-project, which use the gcc-xml tool. So it 
should also work on linux. But like htod, only c-code is supported.


http://dotmars.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/tools/htd/

greets
Matthias

Re: What do people here use as an IDE?

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 13.10.2010 03:57, schrieb Michael Stover:

Elephant appears dead.  Poseidon's activity is extremely low and is
still alpha after 5 years. LEDS is even less active, and DDT doesn't
have a release yet.  What do actual D programmers use?

-Mike


win32 -> VisualD
linux -> CodeBlocks

Re: Code Poet IDE

[Matthias Pleh]

I also loved this project from the very first beginning. But there is still 
no code checked in.
And we hear nothing from the author, here and on sourceforge.
That is the reason, why I started now my own porject!
But since I want to have as less work as possible, I searched for an IDE 
with basic D-support.
So I found codeblocks and started to improve the D-support in this IDE. (as 
already mentioned in digitalmars.D.ide/digitalmars.D.announce)
see
http://forums.codeblocks.org/index.php/topic,12246.0.html

greets nocide

"Nick B" <"nick_NOSPAM_.barbalich"@gmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
news:hosdi2$14l...@digitalmars.com...
> Hi
>
> Does any one know what is happening with this project. It was announced 
> with great fan-fair, but recently it had gone very quiet.
>
> Nick B 

Re: Fatal flaw in D design which is holding back widespread adoption

[Matthias Pleh]

"bearophile"  schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
news:hov7j7$sv...@digitalmars.com...
> Bane:
>> I wonder do Python folks have same problems.
>
> In Python3+ if you mix tabs and spaces to indent code, the "interpreter" 
> raises a parsing error. So you are forced to use only tabs or only spaces 
> to indent code. Only really newbies mix tabs and spaces in Python 2.x 
> code.
>
> And the Python coding standards (PEP8, 
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/ ) says:
> "Use 4 spaces per indentation level."
> And all a little serious Python programmers follow it.
>
> Bye,
> bearophile


And the D dstyle doc (http://www.digitalmars.com/d/2.0/dstyle.html) says:
"Each indentation level will be four columns" and "Using spaces instead of 
tabs is preferred"
And all a little serious D programmers follow it.

Bye,
nocide 

Re: It is impossible to debug code compiled with dmd

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 31.03.2010 20:16, schrieb Robert Clipsham:

On 31/03/10 16:09, Robert Clipsham wrote:

On 31/03/10 10:41, Eldar Insafutdinov wrote:

On Linux dmd outputs faulty debug info.


There are several bugs in the debug info on linux, one of them I've
fixed (for most cases ie. anything that requires phobos, I'm working on
the other cases ie. anything that needs funky libraries that use a lot
of complicated function pointers), and another one you've sent me a
massive test case for which I'm working down to a manageable size for a
bug report now (I'd have done it by now, your make file doesn't play
nicely with my multilib system though ;)). Other than those 2 bugs I
don't know what else is blocking debug info on linux... I'm becoming
quite familiar with DWARF/dmd's backend code for DWARF through all this
debugging, so if I can get these bugs fixed I'd be happy to work on any
others while I have time.


Having played with the testcase you sent me, it isn't another bug. You
were using -g instead of -gc, which won't work until debuggers support
the D extensions to debug info. When using -gc it gives the error as
reported in bug #3987, so it should work when that is fixed.


Does this mean, the -g option only works in compination with the ddbg 
debugger and all other debugger need the -gc option?

I need this to set a defaultsetting in codeblocks!

Re: Poll: Primary D version

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 20.05.2010 08:52, schrieb Nick Sabalausky:

I'm interested in trying to gauge the current state of D version usage, so
I've set up a poll:

http://micropoll.com/t/KEFfsZBH5F

I apologize for using MicroPoll (and all its manditory-JavaScript-ness). I
personally hate MicroPoll but everything else I've seen is even worse and I
don't have time to make a custom one.




Oh god, we have to inform micropoll, there is more than the USA ...

Re: Poll: Primary D version

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 21.05.2010 22:27, schrieb Nick Sabalausky:

"Matthias Pleh"  wrote in message
news:ht6p7t$27s...@digitalmars.com...


Oh god, we have to inform micropoll, there is more than the USA ...


"Kagamin"  wrote in message
news:ht6jgv$1tb...@digitalmars.com...


I'd appreciate js, but pissed off by flash.


Yea, micropoll unfortunately has a lot of deficiencies. Like, when I was
typing in the possible choices, the text box was lagging by roughly a
second. And I've had some discussion with their support staff, and they seem
to be the type of support people who are very easily confused. (Either that,
or I'm just a hell of a lot worse at explaining things than I think I am
;) )




Funny is, that it shows me in the result that there were 2 votes in my 
area of about a radius of 50km, so there must be another D-enthusiast 
near by me, maybe my grandmother, who knows 

Re: Poll: Primary D version

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 21.05.2010 23:14, schrieb Matthias Pleh:

Am 21.05.2010 22:27, schrieb Nick Sabalausky:

"Matthias Pleh" wrote in message
news:ht6p7t$27s...@digitalmars.com...


Oh god, we have to inform micropoll, there is more than the USA ...


"Kagamin" wrote in message
news:ht6jgv$1tb...@digitalmars.com...


I'd appreciate js, but pissed off by flash.


Yea, micropoll unfortunately has a lot of deficiencies. Like, when I was
typing in the possible choices, the text box was lagging by roughly a
second. And I've had some discussion with their support staff, and
they seem
to be the type of support people who are very easily confused. (Either
that,
or I'm just a hell of a lot worse at explaining things than I think I am
;) )




Funny is, that it shows me in the result that there were 2 votes in my
area of about a radius of 50km, so there must be another D-enthusiast
near by me, maybe my grandmother, who knows 


It says "See how users are polling in Vorarlberg : Total Votes : 2"

So it seems that in every erea of us life 2 D-enthusiasts ...

Re: Poll: Primary D version

[Matthias Pleh]

Am 20.05.2010 08:52, schrieb Nick Sabalausky:

I'm interested in trying to gauge the current state of D version usage, so
I've set up a poll:

http://micropoll.com/t/KEFfsZBH5F

I apologize for using MicroPoll (and all its manditory-JavaScript-ness). I
personally hate MicroPoll but everything else I've seen is even worse and I
don't have time to make a custom one.




For all who want to see the current result, without voting twice:
http://www.micropoll.com/akira/mpresult/928402-256449