i want my bounty!
there is preapproved bounty ER in bugzilla: https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11070 i did that, where is my bounty?! but talking seriously, i don't need any bounty, i just want somebody to take a look at that and either tell me what to fix or integrate it in mainline. along with this one: https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13526 they are small, but nice additions. i'm using that patches on dayly basis and didn't found any troubles with them. please, take those, so i can throw away two .patch files from my build directory! ;-) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: i want my bounty!
"ketmar via Digitalmars-d" wrote in message news:mailman.3160.1418550079.9932.digitalmar...@puremagic.com... but talking seriously, i don't need any bounty, i just want somebody to take a look at that and either tell me what to fix or integrate it in mainline. along with this one: https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13526 Review of patches for dmd are done on github: http://wiki.dlang.org/Pull_Requests#Create_a_pull_request
Re: i want my bounty!
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 13:19:01 +1100 Daniel Murphy via Digitalmars-d wrote: > "ketmar via Digitalmars-d" wrote in message > news:mailman.3160.1418550079.9932.digitalmar...@puremagic.com... > > > but talking seriously, i don't need any bounty, i just want somebody to > > take a look at that and either tell me what to fix or integrate it in > > mainline. along with this one: > > https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13526 > > Review of patches for dmd are done on github: > http://wiki.dlang.org/Pull_Requests#Create_a_pull_request so DON'T ALLOW THE FUCKIN' BUGZILLA TO HOST PATCHES! and stop pretending that D is normal open-source project where anyone can send patches. that's blatant lies. i can see why i have to register on D bugtracker, which has the address "issues.dlang.org". but i can't see why i must register on some 3rd-party site which has NOTHING in common with D. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: i want my bounty!
On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 08:54:24 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 13:19:01 +1100 Daniel Murphy via Digitalmars-d wrote: "ketmar via Digitalmars-d" wrote in message news:mailman.3160.1418550079.9932.digitalmar...@puremagic.com... > but talking seriously, i don't need any bounty, i just want > somebody to > take a look at that and either tell me what to fix or > integrate it in > mainline. along with this one: > https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13526 Review of patches for dmd are done on github: http://wiki.dlang.org/Pull_Requests#Create_a_pull_request so DON'T ALLOW THE FUCKIN' BUGZILLA TO HOST PATCHES! and stop pretending that D is normal open-source project where anyone can send patches. that's blatant lies. i can see why i have to register on D bugtracker, which has the address "issues.dlang.org". but i can't see why i must register on some 3rd-party site which has NOTHING in common with D. You were looking forward to that, in fact I'd say trolling for it... Your contribution is welcome and if you don't want to use Github, the chosen tool of D development, that's fine. But you cannot expect to dictate when others will turn your patches into PRs for you to get them into the D ecosystem. You'll just have to wait, unless you submit the PR yourself of course. Cheers, uri PS: You don't even have to join Github with your real name and email...
Re: i want my bounty!
Choosing the way of throwing away code is up to you. Contributing in a way such it is acknowledged by upstream is defined by, coincidentally, upstream. The line gets drawn exactly at the moment where you are not satisfied with just throwing stuff away but want to claim bounty / get review. Don't like it - get the fuck off.
Re: i want my bounty!
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 09:14:26 + Dicebot via Digitalmars-d wrote: > Choosing the way of throwing away code is up to you. Contributing > in a way such it is acknowledged by upstream is defined by, > coincidentally, upstream. The line gets drawn exactly at the > moment where you are not satisfied with just throwing stuff away > but want to claim bounty / get review. > > Don't like it - get the fuck off. that's exactly what i planning to do. sadly, i can't find the easy way to remove my account in bugzilla. but i clearly see how D will attract contributors this way. treating patches attached in *official* bugzilla as "trhowing stuff away" is epic win, this will help alot. good luck with that, i'm off. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: i want my bounty!
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 09:07:53 + uri via Digitalmars-d wrote: > You were looking forward to that, in fact I'd say trolling for > it... that's not the first time i asking why bugzilla is still able to host patches. i just wanted to make myself sure that "any input is valuable" is blatant lies. one last time. > Your contribution is welcome and if you don't want to use Github, > the chosen tool of D development, that's fine. But you cannot > expect to dictate when others will turn your patches into PRs for > you to get them into the D ecosystem. i.e. "shut the fuck off and get lost with your stupid patches, nobody is interested." this is not "welcome", this is "github or get lost". > You'll just have to wait, unless you submit the PR yourself of > course. i waited for several month for *any* reaction. as my past expirience shows, the only reliable way to make somebody look at bugzilla patches is to start trollfest here. but i'm tired of that. > PS: You don't even have to join Github with your real name and > email... i don't even understand why i have to join github in the first place. i don't want to be a part of github, i'm not interested in that. that's why i registered on official D bugzilla. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: i want my bounty!
On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 09:31:28 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 09:07:53 + uri via Digitalmars-d wrote: You were looking forward to that, in fact I'd say trolling for it... that's not the first time i asking why bugzilla is still able to host patches. i just wanted to make myself sure that "any input is valuable" is blatant lies. one last time. OK, fair point. Your contribution is welcome and if you don't want to use Github, the chosen tool of D development, that's fine. But you cannot expect to dictate when others will turn your patches into PRs for you to get them into the D ecosystem. i.e. "shut the fuck off and get lost with your stupid patches, nobody is interested." this is not "welcome", this is "github or get lost". You'll just have to wait, unless you submit the PR yourself of course. i waited for several month for *any* reaction. as my past expirience shows, the only reliable way to make somebody look at bugzilla patches is to start trollfest here. but i'm tired of that. PS: You don't even have to join Github with your real name and email... i don't even understand why i have to join github in the first place. i don't want to be a part of github, i'm not interested in that. that's why i registered on official D bugzilla. Ideally there'd be a tool to turn Bugzilla patch submission into a Github PR. But again it's work *someone* has to do and it isn't *that* much of a hurdle to get onto Github with a made up account just for D. Cheers, uri.
Re: i want my bounty!
On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 09:31:28 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 09:07:53 + uri via Digitalmars-d wrote: You were looking forward to that, in fact I'd say trolling for it... that's not the first time i asking why bugzilla is still able to host patches. i just wanted to make myself sure that "any input is valuable" is blatant lies. one last time. The fact it is valuable does not mean it is not a second class citizen. Valuable but less valuable. But you would never accept the reality that doesn't justify your rants, right?
Re: i want my bounty!
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 09:46:29 + uri via Digitalmars-d wrote: > Ideally there'd be a tool to turn Bugzilla patch submission into > a Github PR. But again it's work *someone* has to do and it isn't > *that* much of a hurdle to get onto Github with a made up account > just for D. except that i can't make account just for D on github. it's "all or nothing" thing, and i don't want "all". so the only choice i have is "nothing". it's not about "don't use features you don't want", it's about me don't want to be genuine github user. i don't want to look like part of github community, i don't want to be shown in their userlist in any way, and i want that anyone looking at my github profile see the explanation that i don't like github, i'm not a part of github community and i was just forced to join for the projects i listed. this is impossible, however, so github is a no-go for me. and it's ok for D community to ask to use github, but then there must be a clear sign in bugzilla that tells the users that they HAVE to use github to submit patches. each time they want to attach a patch file (and why that patch files are still allowed then?). it's another "purely cosmetic issue", D is full of that. the thing people somehow don't want to understand is that "cosmetic issues" are important, as they builds the image of the whole project. that's why i'm stressing "cosmetic issues" again and again in the desperate hope that someone will grok that simply thing. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: i want my bounty!
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 10:01:03 + Dicebot via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 09:31:28 UTC, ketmar via > Digitalmars-d wrote: > > On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 09:07:53 + > > uri via Digitalmars-d wrote: > > > >> You were looking forward to that, in fact I'd say trolling for > >> it... > > that's not the first time i asking why bugzilla is still able > > to host > > patches. i just wanted to make myself sure that "any input is > > valuable" > > is blatant lies. one last time. > > The fact it is valuable does not mean it is not a second class > citizen. Valuable but less valuable. But you would never accept > the reality that doesn't justify your rants, right? nope. i'm accepting the fact that D is doomed to be a toy, which ocasionally used here and there. i tried to fight with this, but this fight is lost before it's started. and now i surrender. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: i want my bounty!
On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 10:11:37 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: nope. i'm accepting the fact that D is doomed to be a toy, which ocasionally used here and there. i tried to fight with this, but this fight is lost before it's started. and now i surrender. Very true. This community doesn't invite contributions. They are happy to run around throwing in ideas for you to implement, but nobody will take your code and improve upon it. With this in mind, if I ever find some piece of functionality missing in Phobos, I'll write a simple implementation for myself, but will never bother to make a pull request (where I'll hear that not using pure-const-nothrow-safe all over the place is a sign of an unbeliever, and thus I'm not allowed in their circles; sorry, exaggerating a bit).
Re: i want my bounty!
On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 10:24:38 UTC, Artem Tarasov wrote: On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 10:11:37 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: nope. i'm accepting the fact that D is doomed to be a toy, which ocasionally used here and there. i tried to fight with this, but this fight is lost before it's started. and now i surrender. Very true. This community doesn't invite contributions. They are happy to run around throwing in ideas for you to implement, but nobody will take your code and improve upon it. With this in mind, if I ever find some piece of functionality missing in Phobos, I'll write a simple implementation for myself, but will never bother to make a pull request (where I'll hear that not using pure-const-nothrow-safe all over the place is a sign of an unbeliever, and thus I'm not allowed in their circles; sorry, exaggerating a bit). Taking code of someone else and improving it will generally take more time than writing one of my own from scratch that will conform to all strict requirements contributing to standard library / compiler implies. That is exactly why such contribution is second-class (probably even third-class) citizen - it is simply too far away effort-wise from something that can be used. Contributing something new to C++ standard library - now THAT is hard :) In D is simply a matter of willingness to do a quality effort, something any regular contributor will gladly help with as long as there is that willingness. Unfortunately people often underestimate the gap between solution that "works good enough for me" and "work good enough for everyone using stdlib". std.experimental.logger is a pretty good example of how many concerns one needs to address to actually get there. And if you are not willing to spend that much effort doing personal implementations is just fine and expected. Really I have a hard time imagining any open source project with quality control were contributing upstream would be less demanding.
Re: i want my bounty!
On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 08:54:24 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 13:19:01 +1100 Daniel Murphy via Digitalmars-d wrote: "ketmar via Digitalmars-d" wrote in message news:mailman.3160.1418550079.9932.digitalmar...@puremagic.com... > but talking seriously, i don't need any bounty, i just want > somebody to > take a look at that and either tell me what to fix or > integrate it in > mainline. along with this one: > https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13526 Review of patches for dmd are done on github: http://wiki.dlang.org/Pull_Requests#Create_a_pull_request so DON'T ALLOW THE FUCKIN' BUGZILLA TO HOST PATCHES! The attachment feature is useful (and is used) for listing large test-cases, stack traces etc. It is not an exclusive feature for patches. What part of http://wiki.dlang.org/Get_involved and related pages weren't clear to you, such that even after being told about github being the chosen method you still decided that the "(proposed patch, testcase, etc.)" text by the issues.dlang.org "Add an attachment" link superseded it all!
Re: i want my bounty!
On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 10:37:23 UTC, Dicebot wrote: it is simply too far away effort-wise from something that can be used. Contributing something new to C++ standard library - now THAT is hard :) In D is simply a matter of willingness to do a quality effort, something any regular contributor will gladly help with as long as there is that willingness. Fair point. The trouble I have with D in particular is its definition of 'quality'. For example, I'm unable to consider THIS 'quality effort': hhttps://github.com/tom-tan/phobos/commit/c7e99d9baff0749dfb334db322c5471b21a2539d - it's simply fighting with the unintelligent compiler.
Re: i want my bounty!
On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 10:52:04 UTC, Artem Tarasov wrote: On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 10:37:23 UTC, Dicebot wrote: it is simply too far away effort-wise from something that can be used. Contributing something new to C++ standard library - now THAT is hard :) In D is simply a matter of willingness to do a quality effort, something any regular contributor will gladly help with as long as there is that willingness. Fair point. The trouble I have with D in particular is its definition of 'quality'. For example, I'm unable to consider THIS 'quality effort': hhttps://github.com/tom-tan/phobos/commit/c7e99d9baff0749dfb334db322c5471b21a2539d - it's simply fighting with the unintelligent compiler. Quality != pretty. Ideally the compiler would be perfect, but it's not, so in the mean time you do what you can to provide the best quality package to phobos users.
Re: i want my bounty!
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 10:47:29 + John Colvin via Digitalmars-d wrote: > The attachment feature is useful (and is used) for listing large > test-cases, stack traces etc. It is not an exclusive feature for > patches. i don't ever talked about disabling attaches. but there is no sense to allow attaching *PATCHES*. > What part of http://wiki.dlang.org/Get_involved and related pages > weren't clear to you, such that even after being told about > github being the chosen method you still decided that the > "(proposed patch, testcase, etc.)" text by the issues.dlang.org > "Add an attachment" link superseded it all! that is overall D attitude: "don't look at what we wrote here, look at what we wrote there! sure, you HAVE to go there first, and we will not give you any handly links. and than we'll blame you for using our tools as we wrote in that tools, 'cause you must use that tools as we wrote outside of that tools. and we blame you for don't reading something that is not even linked from inside our tool. and we will not fix it and blame you again, 'cause it's fun and we never fixing 'cosmetic issues' anyway." signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: i want my bounty!
On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 10:52:04 UTC, Artem Tarasov wrote: Fair point. The trouble I have with D in particular is its definition of 'quality'. For example, I'm unable to consider THIS 'quality effort': hhttps://github.com/tom-tan/phobos/commit/c7e99d9baff0749dfb334db322c5471b21a2539d - it's simply fighting with the unintelligent compiler. For standard library quality means not only robustness of implementation itself but also taking delicate care of things like backwards compatibility and hiding as much pain as possible from the end user. All the @safe commits fall in the latter domain - it may expose deficiency in compiler / language definition (or both) but waiting until better compiler is not something Phobos users would appreciate. Though speaking specifically about @safe it is exactly the very point of standard library runtime to contain such weird hacks - so that user code can totally avoid resorting to those. Many workarounds are because of compiler deficiency indeed but still many are expected and needed. By the way this specific commit looks suspicious to me :) Wrapping whole functions (other than extern(C)) in @trusted is rarely a good idea. But I haven't been reviewing Phobos pulls for last ~2 months so don't know the context.
Re: i want my bounty!
On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 11:09:49 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 10:47:29 + John Colvin via Digitalmars-d wrote: The attachment feature is useful (and is used) for listing large test-cases, stack traces etc. It is not an exclusive feature for patches. i don't ever talked about disabling attaches. but there is no sense to allow attaching *PATCHES*. What part of http://wiki.dlang.org/Get_involved and related pages weren't clear to you, such that even after being told about github being the chosen method you still decided that the "(proposed patch, testcase, etc.)" text by the issues.dlang.org "Add an attachment" link superseded it all! that is overall D attitude: "don't look at what we wrote here, look at what we wrote there! sure, you HAVE to go there first, and we will not give you any handly links. and than we'll blame you for using our tools as we wrote in that tools, 'cause you must use that tools as we wrote outside of that tools. and we blame you for don't reading something that is not even linked from inside our tool. and we will not fix it and blame you again, 'cause it's fun and we never fixing 'cosmetic issues' anyway." hey ketmar. first of all, judging by your language, you don't seem like a guy who follows guidelines. why are you even complaining if it's written here or there? secondly, can i please open a github account for you and hand it to you? it'll only follow d-programming-language on github. you won't be dealing with any shit. [0] [0] that's also what's gonna happen when you sign up yourself. p.s. i know i have your sympathy because of my all lower-case writing despite the hate we get. :-)
Re: i want my bounty!
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 11:27:30 +
Mengu via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> first of all, judging by your language, you don't seem like a guy
> who follows guidelines. why are you even complaining if it's
> written here or there?
'cause i see something strange in blaming me for doing exactly what was
written.
the whole thing is about that "cosmetic issues" (not only with
bugzilla) which nobody counts as issues at all. it's like a man who
never took a bath: he can be genious, but i don't want to talk with him
long enough to find that. such inconsistencies ("cosmetic issues") is
what building D public image. i got a hard time to convince some of my
mates that language where consistency is in the form of consistenly
ignoring "cosmetic issues" good enough to use for something serious.
"they can't fix such simple things, and now you telling me that i have
to believe they are better at everything other? BS!"
> secondly, can i please open a github account for you and hand it
> to you? it'll only follow d-programming-language on github. you
> won't be dealing with any shit. [0]
github == shit, that's it. once i was excited about it, i even
participated in "closed beta" before public github launch. but now i
don't want to be the part of github in any form, and i have my reasons
for it.
but the thing is not about github per se, as i already written.
> p.s. i know i have your sympathy because of my all lower-case
> writing despite the hate we get. :-)
it's a great factor! ;-) but i'm not really hateful, i'm rather
annoyed. i have some expirience with projects that failed to outgrow
"funny toy" niche, and each one of them has the same problems with
consistency and "cosmetic issues". i was trying to sell D to some
people and failed. not because some issues with C++ interop or even
documentation, but 'cause "that language smells. it's great, but it
looks like they trying to pretend that they have same amout of legacy
code as C++ has and using that as an excuse to not fix the annoyances.
sorry, we can't see why quirky language without libraries is better
than quirky language with libraries, despite all the meta-power of the
former."
so i'm not hateful. actually, it's exactly opposite: i do care about D
and want it to succeed. that's why i'm so passionate about some things.
i can't talk about anything, so i chose to talk about the thing that
bites me *each* *time* i trying to go "D way". i don't have resources
to fork D (and i don't want to do that, 'cause i don't believe that
having a spectrum of incompatible Ds will do any good), so i trying to
do what i believe is good. and it's not about my patches being ignored,
this is the last thing i care of.
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Re: i want my bounty!
On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 10:11:37 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: ... i'm accepting the fact that D is doomed to be a toy, which ocasionally used here and there. i tried to fight with this, but this fight is lost before it's started. and now i surrender. Well I don't post too much but I'm in this Forum almost every day. And you contributes a lot answering many questions, so please don't give up. :) Matheus. PS: Sorry my english!
Re: i want my bounty!
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 14:00:34 + MattCoder via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 10:11:37 UTC, ketmar via > Digitalmars-d wrote: > > ... i'm accepting the fact that D is doomed to be a toy, which > > ocasionally used here and there. i tried to fight with this, > > but this fight is lost before it's started. and now i surrender. > > Well I don't post too much but I'm in this Forum almost every > day. And you contributes a lot answering many questions, so > please don't give up. :) thank you. i'm not dropping D (i'm still using it, and i like it), i just don't want to try to contribute source code patches anymore. ;-) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: i want my bounty!
On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 11:27:30 UTC, Mengu wrote: p.s. i know i have your sympathy because of my all lower-case writing despite the hate we get. :-) Ah! That's why I can never parse ketmar's posts at a glance and keep getting lost. Full stops followed by capital letters make great visual anchors. The whole I v.s. i thing is trivial in comparison.
Re: i want my bounty!
On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 14:44:03 UTC, John Colvin wrote: On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 11:27:30 UTC, Mengu wrote: p.s. i know i have your sympathy because of my all lower-case writing despite the hate we get. :-) Ah! That's why I can never parse ketmar's posts at a glance and keep getting lost. Full stops followed by capital letters make great visual anchors. The whole I v.s. i thing is trivial in comparison. actually with correct punctuation, writings with all lower-case letters are a lot easier to read. it just flows.
Re: i want my bounty!
On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 15:26:57 UTC, Mengu wrote: On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 14:44:03 UTC, John Colvin wrote: On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 11:27:30 UTC, Mengu wrote: p.s. i know i have your sympathy because of my all lower-case writing despite the hate we get. :-) Ah! That's why I can never parse ketmar's posts at a glance and keep getting lost. Full stops followed by capital letters make great visual anchors. The whole I v.s. i thing is trivial in comparison. actually with correct punctuation, writings with all lower-case letters are a lot easier to read. it just flows. I personally find a strong effect in the opposite direction. Are you saying that you personally find it easier or are you referring to a body of decent research that has demonstrated this?
Re: i want my bounty!
Eh, possibly if you're used to a language - like english - that's mostly only lowercase letters in the first place. I don't see what your problem with comprehending "GH is what everyone is using for contributions, therefore if you're planning on making a contribution you should probable do it there" is. Your entire argument seems to be based on "I don't like it, therefore I should not have to use it" - even if that's where the project development is taking place. I'm not entirely sure how that makes sense to you. On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 15:26:57 UTC, Mengu wrote: On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 14:44:03 UTC, John Colvin wrote: On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 11:27:30 UTC, Mengu wrote: p.s. i know i have your sympathy because of my all lower-case writing despite the hate we get. :-) Ah! That's why I can never parse ketmar's posts at a glance and keep getting lost. Full stops followed by capital letters make great visual anchors. The whole I v.s. i thing is trivial in comparison. actually with correct punctuation, writings with all lower-case letters are a lot easier to read. it just flows.
Re: i want my bounty!
On 12/14/14 4:41 AM, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: there is preapproved bounty ER in bugzilla: https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11070 i did that, where is my bounty?! but talking seriously, i don't need any bounty, i just want somebody to take a look at that and either tell me what to fix or integrate it in mainline. along with this one: https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13526 they are small, but nice additions. i'm using that patches on dayly basis and didn't found any troubles with them. please, take those, so i can throw away two .patch files from my build directory! ;-) It's already been said, and by me before this, use github. If you don't you have relegated yourself to this existence you so despise. As a practical matter, I see emails for every message posted on github. I may not respond to all of them due to my limited time, but I do look at ones that pertain to my area in the runtime/phobos. I can see the patch online, without having to download it, apply it and test it. I can add comments to specific lines. The auto tester tests it. Only github PRs will be accepted into mainline, not patches on bugzilla, because of the auto tester. This means that your patch must be turned into a PR, and then whoever turns it in must support it if it needs fixing. A previous incarnation of this "development process" did not go well, as your response was "what, peasant? I don't care, that's my patch take it or leave it." It doesn't surprise me that your patch was "missed" or ignored. I can tell you from experience before we used github, development on D was so freaking slow, you would be complaining to no end if it were still that way. The PR system is orders of magnitude better and faster. If you want patches included quickly (or at least quicker), add them as PRs to github, and be prepared to fix them if necessary. If you think D ecosystem will crash and burn because of your intransigence, you are free to have that opinion, but most of us here do not share it (and you aren't the first to express it). I don't think your contributions are low-value, just high overhead. Most of us don't have time for that. -Steve
Re: i want my bounty!
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 11:50:32 -0500 Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d wrote: > your response was "what, peasant? I don't care, that's my patch take it > or leave it." It doesn't surprise me that your patch was "missed" or > ignored. this is the equal answer to "github or GTFO". and this is not only about this particular patch, it's about the things i already mentioned in this discussion. such as having tools that says that they are for patches and then blaming the people who used that tools per disclaimer as "don't do what we wrote here!" see the picture? that's one of the reasons for D to always be toy hobbyst project: inconsistency and treating "cosmetic issues" as "noops". no C++ interop will cure that. and this makes me sad panda. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: i want my bounty!
On 12/15/14 12:47 PM, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 11:50:32 -0500 Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d wrote: your response was "what, peasant? I don't care, that's my patch take it or leave it." It doesn't surprise me that your patch was "missed" or ignored. this is the equal answer to "github or GTFO". and this is not only about this particular patch, it's about the things i already mentioned in this discussion. such as having tools that says that they are for patches and then blaming the people who used that tools per disclaimer as "don't do what we wrote here!" see the picture? Let's say, we remove the "proposed patch" text from the "Add an attachment" field. All good? You will use github then? -Steve
Re: i want my bounty!
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 12:51:47 -0500 Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d wrote: > > and this is not only about this particular patch, it's about the things > > i already mentioned in this discussion. such as having tools that says > > that they are for patches and then blaming the people who used that > > tools per disclaimer as "don't do what we wrote here!" see the picture? > > Let's say, we remove the "proposed patch" text from the "Add an > attachment" field. All good? You will use github then? i will not use github under any circumstances, but this will be one little step along the long "consistency road". at least nobody will be blamed for using bugzilla according to it's disclaimer. and surely i will stop ranting about that, 'cause i deliberately chose GTFO instead of github, according to rules. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: i want my bounty!
On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 18:05:22 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: i will not use github under any circumstances, but this will be one little step along the long "consistency road". at least nobody will be blamed for using bugzilla according to it's disclaimer. and surely i will stop ranting about that, 'cause i deliberately chose GTFO instead of github, according to rules. I don't understand your desire to avoid github, but what ever your reasons if you are willing to write updates for D there should be a way for you to get that into a pull request. Perhaps you could find a surrogate? That would allow you to stay github free but also allow your code to be up for inclusion.
Re: i want my bounty!
On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 18:05:22 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: i will not use github under any circumstances Can I ask why? Seriosly. If I may know what you care for. Disclamer: - I kind of like your posts and work (projects). - Asking because I assume you are a GPL'guy (who, "unfortunately", I'm not) Piotrek
Re: i want my bounty!
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 19:04:36 + Piotrek via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 18:05:22 UTC, ketmar via > Digitalmars-d wrote: > > i will not use github under any circumstances > > Can I ask why? Seriosly. If I may know what you care for. there are several reasons. two main are: 1. i don't like the modern attitude "githib or GTFO". it's not about collaborating anymore, it's like "hey, we built this fancy social network (and managed to turn git into centralized system by the way), so get social! yes, our bugtracker sux, our wiki sux and such, but this is nothing compared to be social!" i hate that. 2. i don't like the tone of the letter i received after RoR bug disclosure (the one where one user can impersonate another user and get acces to his repos). that was almost an order instead of an apology. too much for me. i deleted my github account and i don't want to participate in github in any way anymore. at least until i will see the big personal apology banner on the main page of github. > - Asking because I assume you are a GPL'guy (who, > "unfortunately", I'm not) so as you can see this is not about GPL or something. this is about attitude which i don't like. maybe i'm overreacting, but i'm very stubborn person sometimes. simple registration on github gives 'em +1 user. not that they care about that one user, but *i* care about github not getting that user. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: i want my bounty!
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 19:01:19 + Jeremy DeHaan via Digitalmars-d wrote: > I don't understand your desire to avoid github, but what ever > your reasons if you are willing to write updates for D there > should be a way for you to get that into a pull request. Perhaps > you could find a surrogate? it's about someone who is willing to work as a proxy. i.e. taking my code, making PR of it, then retranslate my answers to the comments and updating PR... nope, i don't want anyone to do that tedious and useless work. the other way is to make bugzilla speak with github (i.e. teach bugzilla automatically making PRs, download comments from github and update github comments), but i believe that this is even harder, as someone has to write and debug that thing, and then keep and eye on it so it will not break. this work will not get anything of great value for D community, and there are no spare manpower to do it "just because we can". signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: i want my bounty!
On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 09:30:59PM +0200, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 19:04:36 + > Piotrek via Digitalmars-d wrote: > > > On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 18:05:22 UTC, ketmar via > > Digitalmars-d wrote: > > > i will not use github under any circumstances > > > > Can I ask why? Seriosly. If I may know what you care for. > there are several reasons. two main are: > > 1. i don't like the modern attitude "githib or GTFO". it's not about > collaborating anymore, it's like "hey, we built this fancy social > network (and managed to turn git into centralized system by the way), > so get social! yes, our bugtracker sux, our wiki sux and such, but > this is nothing compared to be social!" i hate that. If you put your git repo online somewhere, I wouldn't mind pulling from it and pushing to Phobos as PRs. It's much more convenient than downloading patches off bugzilla. (Git was designed to be used this way in the first place!) T -- "Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes." -- E.W. Dijkstra
Re: i want my bounty!
On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 19:39:08 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 19:01:19 + Jeremy DeHaan via Digitalmars-d wrote: I don't understand your desire to avoid github, but what ever your reasons if you are willing to write updates for D there should be a way for you to get that into a pull request. Perhaps you could find a surrogate? it's about someone who is willing to work as a proxy. i.e. taking my code, making PR of it, then retranslate my answers to the comments and updating PR... nope, i don't want anyone to do that tedious and useless work. the other way is to make bugzilla speak with github (i.e. teach bugzilla automatically making PRs, download comments from github and update github comments), but i believe that this is even harder, as someone has to write and debug that thing, and then keep and eye on it so it will not break. this work will not get anything of great value for D community, and there are no spare manpower to do it "just because we can". Wouldn't either having another person act as a proxy for you, or you being able to act on github through bugzilla, be functionally identical to you just having a github account...
Re: i want my bounty!
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 11:39:40 -0800 "H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d" wrote: > On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 09:30:59PM +0200, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: > > On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 19:04:36 + > > Piotrek via Digitalmars-d wrote: > > > > > On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 18:05:22 UTC, ketmar via > > > Digitalmars-d wrote: > > > > i will not use github under any circumstances > > > > > > Can I ask why? Seriosly. If I may know what you care for. > > there are several reasons. two main are: > > > > 1. i don't like the modern attitude "githib or GTFO". it's not about > > collaborating anymore, it's like "hey, we built this fancy social > > network (and managed to turn git into centralized system by the way), > > so get social! yes, our bugtracker sux, our wiki sux and such, but > > this is nothing compared to be social!" i hate that. > > If you put your git repo online somewhere, I wouldn't mind pulling from > it and pushing to Phobos as PRs. It's much more convenient than > downloading patches off bugzilla. (Git was designed to be used this way > in the first place!) sadly, i'm maintaining my patchset in the form of .patch files. git is great for continuous integration, but i routinely build DMD with some patches disabled, and maintaining that set with git is cumbersome. that's why i chose to attach patches to bugzilla. once i started to converting that to vibe.d site where user can mark the patches he want and get either combined .patch file or special git branch with that patches applied, but i lost interest in doing this. as we abandoned idea of using D as our main developement language, i have no motivation to learn vibe.d further, as doing web/network projects is not my area of interest. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: i want my bounty!
On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 20:29:23 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: sadly, i'm maintaining my patchset in the form of .patch files. git is great for continuous integration, but i routinely build DMD with some patches disabled, and maintaining that set with git is cumbersome. that's why i chose to attach patches to bugzilla. I can't even figure out how you'd come to this conclusion. Are you a unicorn? :P More seriously: this whole tantrum is really unbecoming, and I'm sure you knew that from the outset. Why did you feel the need to do this? -Wyatt
Re: i want my bounty!
On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 21:08:57 + Wyatt via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 20:29:23 UTC, ketmar via > Digitalmars-d wrote: > > > > sadly, i'm maintaining my patchset in the form of .patch files. > > git is great for continuous integration, but i routinely build > > DMD with some patches disabled, and maintaining that set with > > git is cumbersome. that's why i chose to attach patches to > > bugzilla. > > > I can't even figure out how you'd come to this conclusion. Are > you a unicorn? :P it was started as "oh, i have this nice patch. and that nice patch. but damit, they aren't working together, so i'll build with this and then maybe apply that." and more patches. and then there are scripts to apply patches. and now i have more than 20 patches for DMD alone, not counting the patches for druntime and phobos. and i'm too lazy to rewrite my scripts. i need list of patches to apply anyway, and if i need to maintain both git and list of patches, i can just use file system. it's all just lazyness. > More seriously: this whole tantrum is really unbecoming, and I'm > sure you knew that from the outset. Why did you feel the need to > do this? if you are asking why i'm not using vanilla DMD, the answer is easy: i want to have some features that already available but rotting in PRs. like, for example, Kenji patches for property enforcement and better array type/length deduction. i want non-utf8 strings. and alot of other things. i want to enjoy D, not to fight with it. ;-) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: i want my bounty!
On Monday, 15 December 2014 at 19:31:10 UTC, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: 1. i don't like the modern attitude "githib or GTFO". it's not about collaborating anymore But DVCS is a guarantee that actually you can say, Gitub, go away yourself (when needed). I think Github gives D the central repository service for "free" + flexibility of DVCS. but *i* care about github not getting that user. Yeah, I use similar approach for other services (which are, in my case, against the Christan morality), so I can fully understand your reasoning. However I still don't understand what's wrong with "social" side of Github. To me it's very optional. Anyway, I hope you can find some good solution for this. For now we don't have official process to transfer Bugzilla patches to Github and I agree there is a place for improvement in Bugzilla instructions to state it explicitly. If others are not against it, you can notify about patch availability in the announcement forum with short information that you can't go to the Github service for personal believes. Piotrek
Re: i want my bounty!
On 15/12/14 12:09, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 10:47:29 + i don't ever talked about disabling attaches. but there is no sense to allow attaching *PATCHES*. I've attached patches to bug reports as examples for discussion, as a precursor to preparing a fully-fledged PR. Doing so was useful for me, and I think also for the bug reporter.
Re: i want my bounty!
On 16/12/2014 8:30 a.m., ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: so as you can see this is not about GPL or something. this is about attitude which i don't like. maybe i'm overreacting, but i'm very stubborn person sometimes. simple registration on github gives 'em +1 user. not that they care about that one user, but *i* care about github not getting that user. Just one thought, as long as you are not paying Github any money, by using their service you are costing them money. Maybe not much but still. So is it more important for +1 user or is it more important to waste their money to you? And while you are at it participate in the D communities repos in turn causing Github to loose more money.
Re: i want my bounty!
On 12/16/2014 4:38 AM, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: the other way is to make bugzilla speak with github (i.e. teach bugzilla automatically making PRs, download comments from github and update github comments), but i believe that this is even harder, as someone has to write and debug that thing, and then keep and eye on it so it will not break. this work will not get anything of great value for D community, and there are no spare manpower to do it "just because we can". Given that you seem to be an extreme edge case, I don't see how that sort of effort would be worthwhile. Unless the percentage of competent contributors who have a philosophical/moral/whatever objection to github is significant, what's the point?
Re: i want my bounty!
On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 13:24:34 +1300 Rikki Cattermole via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On 16/12/2014 8:30 a.m., ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: > > so as you can see this is not about GPL or something. this is about > > attitude which i don't like. maybe i'm overreacting, but i'm very > > stubborn person sometimes. simple registration on github gives 'em +1 > > user. not that they care about that one user, but *i* care about github > > not getting that user. > > Just one thought, as long as you are not paying Github any money, by > using their service you are costing them money. Maybe not much but still. > > So is it more important for +1 user or is it more important to waste > their money to you? And while you are at it participate in the D > communities repos in turn causing Github to loose more money. in no way. guthub is not a charity organisation, and they will not do the things that aren't profitable. they spent 10 dollars to keep 100 repos working, they got 100 dollars from paying customer. win. where did they get that customer from? one of the "free users" told his boss about github and boss decided that it's easier to pay github than to keep internal infrastructure. strictly speaking, the most valuable thing githab has is their "free users". the more people using github the better. so i can't understand why people think that "kind people at github spending money to give us free service". they spending money to get more money, no charity here. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: i want my bounty!
On 16/12/2014 9:01 p.m., ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 13:24:34 +1300 Rikki Cattermole via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 16/12/2014 8:30 a.m., ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: so as you can see this is not about GPL or something. this is about attitude which i don't like. maybe i'm overreacting, but i'm very stubborn person sometimes. simple registration on github gives 'em +1 user. not that they care about that one user, but *i* care about github not getting that user. Just one thought, as long as you are not paying Github any money, by using their service you are costing them money. Maybe not much but still. So is it more important for +1 user or is it more important to waste their money to you? And while you are at it participate in the D communities repos in turn causing Github to loose more money. in no way. guthub is not a charity organisation, and they will not do the things that aren't profitable. they spent 10 dollars to keep 100 repos working, they got 100 dollars from paying customer. win. where did they get that customer from? one of the "free users" told his boss about github and boss decided that it's easier to pay github than to keep internal infrastructure. strictly speaking, the most valuable thing githab has is their "free users". the more people using github the better. so i can't understand why people think that "kind people at github spending money to give us free service". they spending money to get more money, no charity here. Yes but in this case this is mute. You will talk about Github negatively. You having an account won't cause you to talk positively about it.
Re: i want my bounty!
On Tue, 16 Dec 2014 21:20:39 +1300 Rikki Cattermole via Digitalmars-d wrote: > Yes but in this case this is mute. You will talk about Github > negatively. You having an account won't cause you to talk positively > about it. but it will add one more user to their statistics. it's bad. but it's not about "making bad to github", it's about github being unnaceptable for *me*. i don't want to ruing github, i just don't want to be a part of it, in any form. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: i want my bounty!
On 12/16/14 3:20 AM, Rikki Cattermole wrote: Yes but in this case this is mute. moot. Sorry, couldn't stop myself. Carry on :) -Steve
Re: i want my bounty!
On 17/12/2014 2:53 a.m., Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On 12/16/14 3:20 AM, Rikki Cattermole wrote: Yes but in this case this is mute. moot. Sorry, couldn't stop myself. Carry on :) -Steve And this is why I get people to review my work before publication (other than blogs). Well atleast people understand what I mean!
Re: i want my bounty!
On 12/16/2014 10:53 PM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On 12/16/14 3:20 AM, Rikki Cattermole wrote: Yes but in this case this is mute. moot. Sorry, couldn't stop myself. Carry on :) -Steve You're both wrong :) http://www.1001moviequotes.com/joey-moo-point/
Re: i want my bounty!
On 15/12/2014 19:39, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: If you put your git repo online somewhere, I wouldn't mind pulling from it and pushing to Phobos as PRs. It's much more convenient than downloading patches off bugzilla. (Git was designed to be used this way in the first place!) +1, it really would be much more attractive than patches. That way we can see the code easily in a browser, the developer can split work into commits, the reviewer(s) can easily fetch it. Submitters need to make it easy to start reviewing their code (especially if they don't want to use github). Patches are much harder to apply after time has passed - a git branch can be rebased, clearly showing each conflict encountered.
Re: i want my bounty!
On Wednesday, 17 December 2014 at 17:50:24 UTC, Nick Treleaven wrote: On 15/12/2014 19:39, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: If you put your git repo online somewhere, I wouldn't mind pulling from it and pushing to Phobos as PRs. It's much more convenient than downloading patches off bugzilla. (Git was designed to be used this way in the first place!) +1, it really would be much more attractive than patches. That way we can see the code easily in a browser, the developer can split work into commits, the reviewer(s) can easily fetch it. Submitters need to make it easy to start reviewing their code (especially if they don't want to use github). Patches are much harder to apply after time has passed - a git branch can be rebased, clearly showing each conflict encountered. This is pretty much it. If you don't want to use GitHub you need to provide an alternative way of time-efficient code review. I remember checking few ketmar patches attached in bugzilla before with an intent to resubmit those to GitHub but after seeing no tests included and several style / implementation issues I have decided to simply not bother with it.
Re: i want my bounty!
On 17 December 2014 at 17:50, Nick Treleaven via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On 15/12/2014 19:39, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: >> >> If you put your git repo online somewhere, I wouldn't mind pulling from >> it and pushing to Phobos as PRs. It's much more convenient than >> downloading patches off bugzilla. (Git was designed to be used this way >> in the first place!) > > > +1, it really would be much more attractive than patches. That way we can > see the code easily in a browser, the developer can split work into commits, > the reviewer(s) can easily fetch it. Submitters need to make it easy to > start reviewing their code (especially if they don't want to use github). > Patches are much harder to apply after time has passed - a git branch can be > rebased, clearly showing each conflict encountered. Yah, I would recommend you get a VPS (which can be anything from $2 a year to $5 a month depending on how "low-end" you want to go). And install gitlab or gitorious on it, if you want local control - then those tools provide it. Iain.
Re: i want my bounty!
On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 08:49:37 + Iain Buclaw via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On 17 December 2014 at 17:50, Nick Treleaven via Digitalmars-d > wrote: > > On 15/12/2014 19:39, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: > >> > >> If you put your git repo online somewhere, I wouldn't mind pulling from > >> it and pushing to Phobos as PRs. It's much more convenient than > >> downloading patches off bugzilla. (Git was designed to be used this way > >> in the first place!) > > > > > > +1, it really would be much more attractive than patches. That way we can > > see the code easily in a browser, the developer can split work into commits, > > the reviewer(s) can easily fetch it. Submitters need to make it easy to > > start reviewing their code (especially if they don't want to use github). > > Patches are much harder to apply after time has passed - a git branch can be > > rebased, clearly showing each conflict encountered. > > Yah, I would recommend you get a VPS (which can be anything from $2 a > year to $5 a month depending on how "low-end" you want to go). And > install gitlab or gitorious on it, if you want local control - then > those tools provide it. too much work for toy hobbyst project. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: i want my bounty!
On 18/12/2014 08:58, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: too much work for toy hobbyst project. In case you want free Git hosting other than github, check: https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/GitHosting Some sites have an open framework.
Re: i want my bounty!
On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 17:19:28 + Nick Treleaven via Digitalmars-d wrote: > On 18/12/2014 08:58, ketmar via Digitalmars-d wrote: > > > > too much work for toy hobbyst project. > > > > In case you want free Git hosting other than github, check: > https://git.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/GitHosting > > Some sites have an open framework. thank you. i'm using repo.or.cz now and i'm very happy with it: it doesn't do anything except hosting repos! oh, well, and it has minimalistic web viewer. almost ideal thing. ;-) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
