[digitalradio] Automatic sub band frequencies

[David Struebel]

Andy,

If you are looking at frequencies for your Winmor operation in the auto control 
subbands I can suggest some frequencies to avoid since they are the primary
NTS Digital operating frequencies..with Pactor 1, 2, and 3. NTS Digital for the 
most part only operates in the auto control subbands and we are using Winlink 
Classic which does have
a busy detector.

3591.9   3593.97100.4   7102.4   10140.9 and 10142.9 14095.9   14097.9  
and 14112.4


Good luck . 73

Dave WB2FTX
Eastern Area Digital Coordinator- National Traffic System Digital

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Unattended narrow mode transmission "protection"

[David Struebel]

John,

I don't know if your comments are directed to me or are in response to my 
comments on NTS Digital, but NTSD has nothing to do with hams at sea. If you 
want more information about NTS Digital operations and practices please check 
this web site.

http://home.earthlink.net/~bscottmd/n_t_s_d.htm

NTSD is a very very small portion of the automatic systems compared to Winlink 
2000 and ALE,,,Again we are still using Winlink Classic, the version developed 
before
Winlink 2000 and Classic does have a busy detector... NTS messages are and have 
been part of amateur radio for decades and continue in the tradition 
established early in the 20th century. 

Dave WB2FTX
Eastern Area Digital Coordinator NTSD

  - Original Message - 
  From: "John Becker, WØJAB" 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 4:07 PM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: Unattended narrow mode transmission 
"protection"



  Dave 

  right now I dont have the time to plug the holes
  in your comments.

  But the bottom line is that they are ham's at see.
  Would there be a problem if they only used SSB
  and not data mode?



  


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14:32:00

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Unattended narrow mode transmission "protection"

[David Struebel]

  - Original Message - 
  From: kc4cop 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 2:08 AM
  Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Unattended narrow mode transmission "protection"


  Your comments  about "Grandma's birthday" indicates that you understand very 
little concerning traffic handling which has been a part of amateur radio from 
the very begining and is where the "Relay" in "American Radio Relay League" 
comes from.. The pupose of the yes maybe boring everyday messages is to keep a 
cadre of trained message handlers for those times when ham radio is called upon 
to provide communications during disasters and other emergenices when other 
modes of communication are down or otherwise unavailable, including the World 
Wide Web.

  The National Traffic System exists and has operated for many decades in this 
fashion. A natural extension of this is NTS Digital which indeed does operate 
automatic message handling systems primarily using Pactor and operates 
concurrently with the traditional manual NTS at all levels.  However NTS 
Digital for the most part still uses what has become to be called Winlink 
Classic where almost all of the forwarding is done via RF. Yes we do scan, but 
Winlink Classic also has a busy frequency detector built into its scanner 
function. While not perfect it does result in inhibiting many connections when 
the frequency is busy. Personally I have seen it work upon detecting CW, RTTY, 
Pactor 1, PSK31 and some other digital modes and even just plain carrier. NTS 
Digital operates almost exclusively in the very small existing automatical 
control subbands. Indeed during RTTY contests when many of the activity moves 
into these autocontrol subbands our traffic handling ability is severely 
affected due to the busy detectors in the software. 

  How big is this operation?... For March 2010 the NTS Digital system in 
Eastern Area which comprises most of the East Coast and  the 1, 2, 3, 4, and 8 
callsign areas and Eastern Canada handled over 6000 messages via the digital 
systems. Similar traffic levels are also posted by the other two areas, Central 
and Pacific covering the rest of the US and Canada 

  Dave WB2FTX
  Easten Area Digital Coordinator- NTS Digital
  ARRL


  --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, Andy obrien  wrote:

  A quick fix for this entire mess is to suggest to those running automated 
traffic stations to use the World Wide Web. The web is faster, less likely to 
be affected by atmospheric changes, and remove a thorn in the side of many ham 
radio operators.

  I have only intercepted messages being relayed by an automated traffic 
handling station a few times. The traffic was dull and trivial. It was hardly 
worth the mayhem now being caused by their operation. Some may disagree with me 
on the point of traffic being trivial. I just cannot find "happy birthday 
grandma" to be very important. Grandma would get her birthday which is much 
quicker through the Web.

  Dick Zseltvay,KC4COP



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14:32:00

Re: [digitalradio] The cost of digital mode interfaces

[David Struebel]

A lot of hams have had problems with the RASCAL and the poor support and 
commications from the vendor of this product...See Eham reviews.
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/1384

I use and reccomend the Donner interface here with no issues and they are only 
$40... they come with all the connections for your specific radio and I think 
it also provides isolation on both the receive and transmit audio lines.
http://home.att.net/~n8st/DDI-index.html

Review
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/2073

73 Dave WB2FTX
-- Original Message - 
  From: Ralph Mowery 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2010 10:03 AM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] The cost of digital mode interfaces



  The basic sound card interface has never been very high.  Look for one called 
Rascal.  Here is one link to where to get them.

  http://www.packetradio.com/

  I don't recall the price from years ago, but it was under $ 50 then.
  The kit was even less.  Almost just the cost of the parts if bought in single 
lots.

   

  - Original Message 
  From: Andy obrien 
  To: digitalradio 
  Sent: Sat, March 6, 2010 8:34:05 AM
  Subject: [digitalradio] The cost of digital mode interfaces

  I was helping a ham get set-up for digital modes recently and turned
  to the issue of interfaces for digital modes.  I researched the price
  for a Rigblaster Pro and was shocked that they sell for $299.  My
  friend settled for another interface  that cost $69, new.  I was
  wondering about interfaces and wondering about whether the era of high
  priced interfaces might be coming to an end.  I'm not talking about
  the ones that have extra features like electronic CW keying, high end
  soundcards , etc etc.  I'm thinking that a device that has connectors,
  isolation circuits, pots, and a good solid enclosure, should be in the
  under $100 range.  I know you can build your own for $20 or so,  It
  is nice to see that many low price options exist nowadays.
  Andy K3UK



  


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02:39:00

Re: [digitalradio] Re: HF International Automatic Subbands

[David Struebel]

Bonnie,

Just a point... I don't believe the HF automatic sub bands are internationally 
recognized.

To my knowledge it is only the FCC in the US that has set up these automatic 
control sub bands.

73 Dave WB2FTX
  - Original Message - 
  From: expeditionradio 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 7:21 PM
  Subject: [digitalradio] Re: HF International Automatic Subbands



  > I would also like the ALE and digital community to 
  > recognise that they share the bands with everyone else 
  > Dave (G0DJA) 

  Hi Dave,

  While I can't speak for the whole "digital community", 
  I can probably speak with some authority for 
  the "ALE community"... 

  ALE operators have been sharing the ham bands 
  for many many years without harmful interference. 
  This is primarily due to the way that ALE has been 
  adapted to amateur radio by hams, a protocol adaption 
  known as "ham-friendly ALE". 

  99% of ALE operation is in organised emcomm networks 
  and 99% of the organised networks are operating in the 
  internationally recogised HF automatic sub-bands, 
  where automatic modes have been in use for many years. 

  73 Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA




  


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14:45:00

Re: [digitalradio] Come Here Watson

[David Struebel]

I think you have it mixed up Watson was associated with Alexander Graham 
Bell and the telephone not Thomas Edison.

Dave WB2FTX
  - Original Message - 
  From: chas 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 9:52 AM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Come Here Watson


actually, I THINK that the expression used by TEdison was
  "Watson, I want you". or has my CRS kicked in again? 
  73

  -- 
  ch...@texas.net k5dam Houston, TX

  Andrew O'Brien wrote:
  > Message ID: NDTTDN5FRWGW
  > Date: 2009/09/19 13:11
  > From: KI4MTB
  > To: K3UK
  > Source: KI4MTB
  > Subject: //WL2K Test
  > 
  > Test from KI4MTB
  > 



  


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06:03:00

Re: [digitalradio] City attempts to shut down ham radio .... !!

[David Struebel]

This link goes to "invalid thread" on qrz.com Any better information?

Dave WB2FTX
  - Original Message - 
  From: Robert Ellis 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 9:14 PM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] City attempts to shut down ham radio  !!






  k7fe reports in a qrz forum that the palmdale city council approved 
  the ordinance:
  http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?t=209771

  On Jul 10, 2009, at 7:27 PM, David Struebel wrote:

  >
  >
  > Read the report.
  >

  >
  > Dave WB2FTX
  > - Original Message -
  > From: "Robert Ellis" 
  > To: 
  > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 7:24 PM
  > Subject: Re: [digitalradio] City attempts to shut down ham 
  > radio  !!
  >
  > >
  > > here's a recent city proposal (jul-2009):
  > >
  > > 
http://www.cityofpalmdale.org/city_hall/Planning/2009-07/AMeeting/spl70978h.pdf
  > >
  >
  > >
  > > robert
  > >
  >


  


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17:57:00

Re: [digitalradio] City attempts to shut down ham radio .... !!

[David Struebel]

Read the report.

It calls for the city to have the right not only to inspect the amateur 
radio antenna instalation but also the amateur radio equipment.
Regulation of the equipment should be pre-empted by the Federal 
government specifically this July 9 dats says that the amateur
cannot modify his installation (i.e. antenna AND EQUPIMENT) in any fasion 
diffrent from that approved intially by the city.
If for instance, you add say VHF or UHF capacity to your station after the 
city grants approval your are in violation, likewise it would seem that 
adding
an amplifier to your station would also be prohibited...What happens if you 
do either of these without prior notification to the city?
Are they going to arrest you or confiscate your equipment?  This is clearly 
a case of Federal goverment preemption and should not be laoowed to continue 
as
written...

My two cents

Dave WB2FTX
- Original Message - 
From: "Robert Ellis" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] City attempts to shut down ham radio  !!


>
> On Jul 10, 2009, at 5:05 PM, David Struebel wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't think so, the date is listed as July 8 and the video
>> mentions that the city lost the court case but
>> is still going after the issue.
>
> here's a recent city proposal (jul-2009):
> 
> http://www.cityofpalmdale.org/city_hall/Planning/2009-07/AMeeting/spl70978h.pdf
>
> in short, the proposal says, antennas that don't require permits
> include:
>
> a) antennas that are installed, placed or maintained and used under
> the roof, or extend no more than one inch above the roof, or are
> behind and below an
> approved architectural feature and do not protrude above the highest
> point of thebuilding and are not visible from a public right-of-way or
> other private property, including upper floors of adjacent buildings;
>
> b) antennas that are handheld or mounted on vehicles consistent with
> the vehicle code; and
>
> c) antenna installations intended for use by the City of Palmdale or
> another governmental agency.
>
>
> there are more restrictions for antennas that don't meet the above
> restrictions. You get to chat with your neighbors first, and you get
> to pay the city to come out and inspect the antenna system every year.
> With the budget crisis in CA, those costs will likely be prohibitively
> high.
>
> so, I guess the meeting was on jul-9, but minutes/videos haven't
> appeared on the palmdale city site yet:
>   http://palmdale.granicus.com/ViewPublisher.php?view_id=2
>
>
> So, I guess that Palmdale is a  really beautiful place to live, where
> everyone wears a suit to get on a plane, nobody is overweight, and
> everyone's lawn is finely manicured.
>
> robert
>
>>
>> Dave WB2FTX
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Dan Hensley
>> To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 12:50 PM
>> Subject: Re: [digitalradio] City attempts to shut down ham
>> radio  !!
>>
>>
>> Guys...this is OLD news and the ham took the city to court. He won
>> his case and it's over.
>>
>> --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Raymond Lunsford  wrote:
>>
>> From: Raymond Lunsford 
>> Subject: Re: [digitalradio] City attempts to shut down ham
>> radio  !!
>> To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
>> Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 8:38 PM
>>
>> Is yhis a joke?K4YDI>
>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 7:58 PM, D.G.  wrote:
>>
>> City attempts to shut down ham radio  !!
>>
>> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=_d5B9UPw_ 10
>>
>> Messages in this topic (2)
>>
>>
>>
>> Reply (via web post)
>> |
>>
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>>
>>
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>>
>> Recommended digital mode software:  Winwarbler, FLDIGI, DM780, or
>> Multipsk
>>
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>>
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Re: [digitalradio] City attempts to shut down ham radio .... !!

[David Struebel]

I don't think so, the date is listed as July 8 and the video mentions that the 
city lost the court case but
is still going after the issue.

Dave WB2FTX
  - Original Message - 
  From: Dan Hensley 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 12:50 PM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] City attempts to shut down ham radio  !!






  Guys...this is OLD news and the ham took the city to court. He won his case 
and it's over. 

  --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Raymond Lunsford  wrote:

  From: Raymond Lunsford 
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] City attempts to shut down ham radio  !!
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
  Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 8:38 PM

  Is yhis a joke?K4YDI wrote:

  City attempts to shut down ham radio  !!

  http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=_d5B9UPw_ 10

  Messages in this topic (2)



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Re: [digitalradio] NTS Digital

[David Struebel]

Don't know where Dave Little is getting his info, but I can tell you that NTS 
Digital is very active on Pactor I, Pactor II and some Pactor III... I will 
mainly comment on Eastern Area NTS Digital which I am directly responsible for, 
but similar activty exists in both Central and Pacific Areas NTS Digital 
For Eastern Area we typically handle 10,000 to 12,000 messages a month   We 
have  6 24/7 MBO stations, the rest are Digital Relay stations removing and 
sending NTS via these MBOs... Also liaisions and connections with the Central 
and Pacific Area MBO hubs. Questions wb2...@optonline.net

73 Dave WB2FTX Eastern Area Digital Coordinator- NTS Digital  

  - Original Message - 
  From: David Little 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:13 PM
  Subject: RE: [digitalradio] NTS Digital



  Rick,

  Army MARS is using MT-63 on mixed mode nets with some regularity.  

  We also use Olivia when conditions warrant the slower speed of transmission.

  Easypal is also being used for picture transmission, as well as text 
broadcasts.

  David
  KD4NUE



-Original Message-
From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Rick W
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:01 PM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [digitalradio] NTS Digital


Maybe some of you can help me with understanding the current digital 
state of the art with NTS. Recently, there have been some NTS 
yahoogroups formed for our region and the sections in that region. There 
is no digital presence at this time, however, at least one ham I knew in 
past years (now SK) was involved at some level, perhaps Pactor.

At least one of the daytime region voice nets is struggling to survive. 
I suspect that CW nets are having some similar problems and if not, they 
surely will have as more CW competent OTs become SK. I don't see 
anywhere near enough new hams becoming proficient in CW and also having 
an interest in traffic handling.

So I suggested that if there was any interest, maybe we could try using 
some of the new technologies that have only recently become available to 
us.

That means either using an extremely robust mode such as Olivia which 
can compete with CW from some of my experiences, or using an ARQ mode 
with NBEMS or possibly Multipsk's FAE400. Eventually, it is possible 
that WINMOR may become available for peer to peer but that is likely far 
into the future from what they are saying.

Are any of the NTS digital stations using sound card modes or are they 
staying with the NTS/D (actually the old Winlink system) and Pactor?

Any recommendations, or even better, any actual experiences with 
getting area, region, or even section nets using some of the newer 
digital sound card modes?

73,

Rick, KV9U


  


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Re: [digitalradio] NTS Digital

[David Struebel]

As an additional note... Most NTS D is using the various versions of   Pactor 
and have the expensive SCS modems...
There are some MBOs still runinng Pactor I with a PK-232 MBX... Most of at 
least Eastern Area NTSD MBOs are using Classic Winlink (ie. the versions before 
Winlink 2000) as we feel that RF forwarding of NTS is superior to internet 
forwarding and not subject to system outages during a disaster Some of the 
Digital Relay Station are using Pactor with Airmail to post and remove traffic 
from the MBOs... WE have not played with the typical sound card modes such as 
Olivia or MT 63, again primarily using Pactor with its error correcting 
abilities

again it you want more info, please contact me  wb2...@optonline.net.

73 Dave WB2FTX Eastern Area Digital Coordinator- NTS Digital
















  - Original Message - 
  From: David Little 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:13 PM
  Subject: RE: [digitalradio] NTS Digital



  Rick,

  Army MARS is using MT-63 on mixed mode nets with some regularity.  

  We also use Olivia when conditions warrant the slower speed of transmission.

  Easypal is also being used for picture transmission, as well as text 
broadcasts.

  David
  KD4NUE



-Original Message-
From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:digitalra...@yahoogroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Rick W
Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:01 PM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [digitalradio] NTS Digital


Maybe some of you can help me with understanding the current digital 
state of the art with NTS. Recently, there have been some NTS 
yahoogroups formed for our region and the sections in that region. There 
is no digital presence at this time, however, at least one ham I knew in 
past years (now SK) was involved at some level, perhaps Pactor.

At least one of the daytime region voice nets is struggling to survive. 
I suspect that CW nets are having some similar problems and if not, they 
surely will have as more CW competent OTs become SK. I don't see 
anywhere near enough new hams becoming proficient in CW and also having 
an interest in traffic handling.

So I suggested that if there was any interest, maybe we could try using 
some of the new technologies that have only recently become available to 
us.

That means either using an extremely robust mode such as Olivia which 
can compete with CW from some of my experiences, or using an ARQ mode 
with NBEMS or possibly Multipsk's FAE400. Eventually, it is possible 
that WINMOR may become available for peer to peer but that is likely far 
into the future from what they are saying.

Are any of the NTS digital stations using sound card modes or are they 
staying with the NTS/D (actually the old Winlink system) and Pactor?

Any recommendations, or even better, any actual experiences with 
getting area, region, or even section nets using some of the newer 
digital sound card modes?

73,

Rick, KV9U


  


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Re: [digitalradio] NTS Digital

[David Struebel]

Don't know where Dave Little is getting his info, but I can tell you that NTS 
Digital is very active on Pactor I, Pactor II and some Pactor III... I will 
mainly comment on Eastern Area NTS Digital which I am directly responsible for, 
but similar activty exists in both Central and Pacific Areas NTS Digital 
For Eastern Area we typically handle 10,000 to 12,000 messages a month   We 
have  6 24/7 MBO stations, the rest are Digital Relay stations removing and 
sending NTS via these MBOs... Also liaisions and connections with the Central 
and Pacific Area MBO hubs. Questions wb2...@optonline.net

73 Dave WB2FTX Eastern Area Digital Coordinator- NTS Digital  


  - Original Message - 
  From: Rick W 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] NTS Digital


  Hi Dave,

  I have heard of the use of MT-63 for many years on MARS circuits, but 
  don't think I had heard about the digital SSTV program being used. It 
  makes tremendous sense since they are often involved in sending 
  bulletins to their members. With one to many it is possible to have 100% 
  ARQ with EasyPal although it is after the fact ARQ. A bit cumbersome, 
  but practical for insuring a group receives exactly correct data.

  Unfortunately U.S. hams can not use mixed phone and text digital in the 
  HF bands unless they are sending fax/image. Since most of the NTS 
  traffic is short text messages, we can not do that in the phone areas, 
  so we have to confine it to the RTTY/data portions.

  73,

  Rick, KV9U

  David Little wrote:
  > Rick,
  > 
  > Army MARS is using MT-63 on mixed mode nets with some regularity. 
  > 
  > We also use Olivia when conditions warrant the slower speed of 
  > transmission.
  > 
  > Easypal is also being used for picture transmission, as well as text 
  > broadcasts.
  > 
  > David
  > KD4NUE
  > 
  >



  


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Re: [digitalradio] NTS Digital

[David Struebel]

Also NTS Digital is using the various modes of Pactor, primarily Pactor I and 
Pactor II Many of the six MBOs in Eastern Area NTS D have the fancy SCS 
Modems although a few are still restiricted to Pactor I using the old PK-232 
MBX... For the most part the MBOs run Classic Winlink (i.e the versions before 
Winlink 2000) as we prefer to forward via RF as opposed to internet We used 
to run AMTOR and Clover but gave those modes up...The reason we don't use a 
mode such as Olivia or MT 63 is because we prefer the error correction of a 
burst mode such as Pactor... The Digital Relay Stations that connect to our 
MBOs again are running Pactor but many of them are using Airmail Eastern 
area NTSD averages typically 10,000 to 12.000 messages a month.

73 Dave WB2FTX  Eastern Area Digital Cooridnator- NTS Digital
  - Original Message - 
  From: Rick W 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 10:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] NTS Digital


  Hi Dave,

  I have heard of the use of MT-63 for many years on MARS circuits, but 
  don't think I had heard about the digital SSTV program being used. It 
  makes tremendous sense since they are often involved in sending 
  bulletins to their members. With one to many it is possible to have 100% 
  ARQ with EasyPal although it is after the fact ARQ. A bit cumbersome, 
  but practical for insuring a group receives exactly correct data.

  Unfortunately U.S. hams can not use mixed phone and text digital in the 
  HF bands unless they are sending fax/image. Since most of the NTS 
  traffic is short text messages, we can not do that in the phone areas, 
  so we have to confine it to the RTTY/data portions.

  73,

  Rick, KV9U

  David Little wrote:
  > Rick,
  > 
  > Army MARS is using MT-63 on mixed mode nets with some regularity. 
  > 
  > We also use Olivia when conditions warrant the slower speed of 
  > transmission.
  > 
  > Easypal is also being used for picture transmission, as well as text 
  > broadcasts.
  > 
  > David
  > KD4NUE
  > 
  >



  


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Re: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies

[David Struebel]

David,

You have your opinion I call tell you that NTS and NTSD is going stong... 
Last month Eastern Area NTSD handled over 10,000 messages
Regarding the distaste for P3, it is a spectrum hog  at 2.4 Khz more suited to 
commerical applications (where there are "fixed" channels) rather than the 
narrow bandwidths used in ham radio... Although NTSD for the most part has P3 
capability, we still use P1 and preferably P2 which both have a bandwidth of 
500 Hz. especially since most of our operation is confined within the automatic 
control subbands.

By the way NTS and NTSD is self funded... We do it for the love of the hobby 
and public service

73 Dave WB2FTX


  - Original Message - 
  From: David Little 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 5:47 PM
  Subject: RE: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies



  Another example of why ARRL turned over all long distance (HF) emergency 
communications to the MARS organizations and agreed that Hams were to provide 
only  last mile (VHF/UHF) emergency communications.

  The Ham community showed their distaste for P3, so it has been largely moved 
to NTIA frequencies.  

  Unfortunately, it set the stage for loss of confidence in the Amateur 
Community for Emergency Communications over a long range, unless they are 
self-funding the entire response..

  There still are some RMS Pactor stations on the Ham spectrum, and some using 
P3 for Keyboard to Keyboard use.  

  Most of them are candidates for MARS service as they continue to get the 
flack from the contesters.

  Everyone eventually gets whet they want.  Some are late to realize that what 
they got in return wasn't actually what they wanted...

  Enjoy,

  David
  KD4NUE







-Original Message-
From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
Dave AA6YQ
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 5:30 PM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies



Re "I know that just made a lot of the anti pactor and anti wide sahck in 
their shoes. Deal with it, once again it worked"

Your "blatant trolling" counter has overflowed, John. Time to add a few 
more bits...

  73,

   Dave, AA6YQ

-Original Message-
From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of 
"John Becker, WŘJAB"
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 5:22 PM
To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Global traffic and emergencies


While we in this area was up to our back side with water
early this year Pactor and WinLink work just fine for us.

FEMA as well as SEMA Just loved that they could get updates via 
their blackberry. You must first understand that in the rural areas 
such as this there is very little cell coverage if any.

If it was not for HF and WinLink a lot of info would have not gotten
from point "A" to point "B".

I know that just made a lot of the anti pactor - anti wide shack in
their shoes. Deal with it, once again it worked.

Maybe soon something new and better will come down the line.

John, W0JAB





   


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6:24 PM

Re: [digitalradio] Re: [illinoisdigitalham] Re: [psk31] Global Emergency Network Marks Record

[David Struebel]

At this point in time most of the traffic is ham to ham. like welcome to ham 
radio, your license is about to expire, welcome to a new ham club (group of 
hams) etc..Some of these are also confirmation of messages received, birthday 
greetings and the like... This ia a free public service sponsored by NTS and 
the ARRL and if fact was one of the first ham related activities... The "relay" 
in American Radio RELAY League (ARRL) refers to this aspect of the hobby.
There still are the messages to the general public. In the times of 
communication emergencies (which is the prime reason for the existence of NTS) 
there are many health and welfare related messagesMany of these cannot be 
handled or delivered by any other means when the infrastructure supporting , 
the traditional phone system, cell phones and email disappears...The routine 
messages are a way of keeping the skills of trained operators honed or oiled if 
you will, to respond in a  structured fashion in an emergency or disaster 
without giving it a second thought... It becomes part of your operating skills.
"Amateur Radio -When all else fails."  Individual stations operating without 
any infrastructure but within a structured system, on emergency power, if 
necessary, have always been the hallmark of ham radio.

Note, that what I have been discussing is the digital aspect of NTS... Similar 
activites as well as traffic volume exists within the traditional NTS systems.  
NTS Digital is only a complementary system to traditional NTS and interfaces 
with it at all levels of NTS structure, from Transcontential Corps (TCC) to 
area, region, section and local..
Indeed the automated portion of NTS Digital would not be successfull without 
these links to the traditional NTS operator structure

73 Dave WB2FTX
  - Original Message - 
  From: Howard Brown 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 2:19 PM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: [illinoisdigitalham] Re: [psk31] Global 
Emergency Network Marks Record



  Hello David,

  I would like to ask what type of traffic is involved in the messages you 
mentioned (10,000 messages in Oct 2008).

  I was surprised because so many people use email and cell phones.  Where does 
this volume come from?

  Howard K5HB




------
  From: David Struebel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]; digitalradio@yahoogroups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Cc: Arnold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Tom Hesler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Scott Walker 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Russell T Hack jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Richard Krohn 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Pierre Mainville <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Norman Schklar 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; KW1U Marcia Forde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; KC2ANN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; John W. Tipka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; John Miller 
N1UMJ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Greg Szpunar (N2GS) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Gil Follett 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; George Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Frank Van Cleef <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>; Frank Fallon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Ewald, Steve, WV1X" <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>; Earl Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Earl Leach (WX4J) <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]>; Dave Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Dan Ostroy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
Dale Sewell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Benson Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
  Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 8:22:53 AM
  Subject: [digitalradio] Re: [illinoisdigitalham] Re: [psk31] Global Emergency 
Network Marks Record



  Just for the record... My original comments were made tongue in cheek But 
for the record

  NTS Digital operates 24/7 on 80, 40, 30, 20, 17, and 15 meters... There are 
mutiple stations that do this, again primarily dedicated to NTS traffic... Some 
of the delivery points are made through packet links, the rest are by 
individual liasions to the traditional NTS system...For the month of October 
2008, Eastern Area NTSD (and that's Eastern Area only, Central and Pacific also 
have their own totals)   handled over 10,000 NTS messages

  73 Dave WB2FTX
  Eastern Area Digital Coordinator- NTSD
[snip]


  ,_._,___ 

   


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6:24 PM

Re: [digitalradio] Does an NTS Digital Net Station run 24/7 allband HF?

[David Struebel]

Bonnie,
NTSD is complementary to the traditional NTS structure and interfaces with it 
on all the NTS structure levels.  It is administered through the NTS structure 
at area level by Area Digital Coordinators each reporting to the NTS Area 
Chairperson.
NTSD automated stations are one transmitter scanning the indicated HF bands.  
Usually some soft of all band antenna is used with automatic antenna tuners.
My station is a Kenwood TS-450S, a 135 foot doublet, with a MFJ 993 
autotuner Modem is a SCS PTC-IIex.  My VHF  packet link is a Kantronics 
KPC-3+ which feeds into my NTS PBBS and the Eastern Flexnet system
The majority are using Winlink classic with Winlink classic scanner software. 
This is an older piece of software originally developed as APLINK (AMTOR and 
packet) by many of the same authors who later developed  Winlink 2000 and can 
be run on a very modest computer. For instance I am using a Pentium 166 MHz 
computer and Windows 98SE.   Some stations are running Winlink 2000 and some 
are using Airmail.
Again the majority have multiple Pactor mode capability using the SCS modems. A 
couple of the automated stations are Pactor 1 only typically using a PK-232MBX,
not everyone can afford a SCS modem... We do have an equipment bank with Pactor 
1 capable Pk-232MBXs to bring a new station on the line, as other stations 
leave or lose interest... Most who come into our ranks eventually upgrade to a 
SCS modem, at least two operators in the past two years You may get a 
fuller look at NTSD operation from this web page

http://home.earthlink.net/~bscottmd/n_t_s_d.htmthe stations and frequencies 
may not be exacly up to date but it wil give you an idea Most of the 
participants in NTSD are Digital Relay Stations manually connecting into the 
various automated systems.

Copied into this message are the operators of the Eastern area MBO stations, 
our ARRL contact, Steve Ewald WV1X, and Dave Knight W4ZJY, and George Thomas 
K7BDU, the Digital Area Coordinators for Central and Pacific area NTSD, 
respectively Marcia, KW1U in addition to being a MBO is also the Chair of 
Eastern Area NTS staff.

Hope that answers your questions... As I noted before, my original comment was 
not to be little HFLink ALE operations, just trying to let you know we are 
still out there after all this time.

73 Dave WB2FTX
Eastern Area Digital Coordinator- NTS Digital
  - Original Message - 
  From: expeditionradio 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 12:09 PM
  Subject: [digitalradio] Does an NTS Digital Net Station run 24/7 allband HF?


  Hi Dave WB2FTX,

  Does a station in the NTS Digital net
  operate 24/7 on all HF bands simultaneously?

  Does a typical station in the NTS Digital net use 
  8 transceivers to achieve simultaneous operation 
  on the 8 HF bands 
  80m/40m/30m/20m/17m/15m/12m/10m?

  Or, does each NTS Digital station scan every HF band? 

  What type of software/hardware does a typical 
  NTS Digital station use to achieve allband 24/7 HF operation?

  I'm very curious about it, because none of the 
  publicly available information by NTS indicates 
  that any station in the net is running 24/7 allband HF.

  Dave, I see you are cross-posting your message 
  with CC to many of groups and individuals :) 
  I am replying to you on the digitalradio group, 
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/
  but, feel free to cross-post your answer to these 
  questions. 

  Bonnie VR2/KQ6XA

  Dave WB2FTX wrote: 
  > NTS Digital operates 24/7 on 80, 40, 30, 20, 17, and 
  > 15 meters... There are mutiple stations that do this,
  > again primarily dedicated to NTS traffic... Some of 
  > the delivery points are made through packet links, 
  > 73 Dave WB2FTX 



   


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6:24 PM

[digitalradio] Re: [illinoisdigitalham] Re: [psk31] Global Emergency Network Marks Record

[David Struebel]

Just for the record... My original comments were made tongue in cheek But 
for the record

NTS Digital operates 24/7 on 80, 40, 30, 20, 17, and 15 meters... There are 
mutiple stations that do this, again primarily dedicated to NTS traffic... Some 
of the delivery points are made through packet links, the rest are by 
individual liasions to the traditional NTS system...For the month of October 
2008, Eastern Area NTSD (and that's Eastern Area only, Central and Pacific also 
have their own totals)   handled over 10,000 NTS messages

73 Dave WB2FTX
Eastern Area Digital Coordinator- NTSD
  - Original Message - 
  From: David Struebel 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; 
digitalradio@yahoogroups.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Cc: Arnold ; Tom Hesler ; Scott Walker ; Russell T Hack jr ; Richard Krohn ; 
Pierre Mainville ; Norman Schklar ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; KW1U Marcia Forde ; 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; KC2ANN ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] ; John W. Tipka ; John Miller N1UMJ ; Greg Szpunar (N2GS) ; Gil 
Follett ; George Thomas ; Frank Van Cleef ; Frank Fallon ; Ewald, Steve, WV1X ; 
Earl Moore ; Earl Leach (WX4J) ; Dave Knight ; Dan Ostroy ; Dale Sewell ; 
Benson Scott ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 11:35 AM
  Subject: [illinoisdigitalham] Re: [psk31] Global Emergency Network Marks 
Record



  Gee,

  I kinda of thought that NTS Digital had been doing this for the past 10 or 15 
years on a 24/7 basis, maybe I was mislead.

  Dave WB2FTX
  Eastern Area Digital Coordinator - NTS Digital
- Original Message - 
From: Mark Thompson 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; digitalradio@yahoogroups.com ; 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 7:18 PM
Subject: [psk31] Global Emergency Network Marks Record


http://www.arrl.org/?artid=8610

Global Emergency Network Marks Record (Nov 19, 2008) -- The Global ALE High 
Frequency Network (HFN) -- an international Amateur Radio Service organization 
of ham operators dedicated to emergency/relief radio communications -- has 
become the first network to operate continuously for more than 500 days on all 
international Amateur Radio shortwave bands simultaneously. According to HFN 
International ALE Coordinator Bonnie Crystal, KQ6XA, the main purpose of the 
Network is to provide efficient emergency and disaster relief communications to 
remote areas of the world. "Beginning with a core group of six North American 
radio operators in June 2007, HFN rapidly expanded to cover large areas of the 
planet with 24/7 digital communications," she said."HFN was designed to be an 
open framework for global Amateur Radio emergency services to interoperate on 
HF using the Automatic Link Establishment (ALE) system." Relying on ionospheric 
radio communications,
interconnected HFN base stations scan the radio bands every 10 seconds, 
from 3.5 MHz-28.0 MHz. Through this Net, Crystal said, ham operators stay 
connected with each other at all hours of the day or night in any mode of 
operation, and can send Internet e-mail or cell phone mobile text messages from 
the field."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









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6:24 PM


   


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6:24 PM

[digitalradio] Re: [psk31] Global Emergency Network Marks Record

[David Struebel]

Gee,

I kinda of thought that NTS Digital had been doing this for the past 10 or 15 
years on a 24/7 basis, maybe I was mislead.

Dave WB2FTX
Eastern Area Digital Coordinator - NTS Digital
  - Original Message - 
  From: Mark Thompson 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; digitalradio@yahoogroups.com ; 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 7:18 PM
  Subject: [psk31] Global Emergency Network Marks Record


  http://www.arrl.org/?artid=8610

  Global Emergency Network Marks Record (Nov 19, 2008) -- The Global ALE High 
Frequency Network (HFN) -- an international Amateur Radio Service organization 
of ham operators dedicated to emergency/relief radio communications -- has 
become the first network to operate continuously for more than 500 days on all 
international Amateur Radio shortwave bands simultaneously. According to HFN 
International ALE Coordinator Bonnie Crystal, KQ6XA, the main purpose of the 
Network is to provide efficient emergency and disaster relief communications to 
remote areas of the world. "Beginning with a core group of six North American 
radio operators in June 2007, HFN rapidly expanded to cover large areas of the 
planet with 24/7 digital communications," she said."HFN was designed to be an 
open framework for global Amateur Radio emergency services to interoperate on 
HF using the Automatic Link Establishment (ALE) system." Relying on ionospheric 
radio communications,
  interconnected HFN base stations scan the radio bands every 10 seconds, from 
3.5 MHz-28.0 MHz. Through this Net, Crystal said, ham operators stay connected 
with each other at all hours of the day or night in any mode of operation, and 
can send Internet e-mail or cell phone mobile text messages from the field."

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



   


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6:24 PM

Re: [digitalradio] CQWW RTTY Practice

[David Struebel]

And how about a request to refrain from the automatic control band segments for 
those of us still running Winlink Classic 3.0 with very effective busy 
detectors?

Dave WB2FTX Eastern Area Digital Coordinator- NTS Digital
  - Original Message - 
  From: Andrew O'Brien 
  To: DIGITALRADIO 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 10:17 PM
  Subject: [digitalradio] CQWW RTTY Practice


  -- Forwarded message --
  From: J. Edward (Ed) Muns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  Date: Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 8:09 PM
  Subject: [RTTY] CQWW RTTY Practice
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], RTTY Reflector <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
  NCCC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

  Let's practice for 30 minutes on Thursday night to check out our stations
  for CQWW RTTY this weekend. Actually, let's do 30-minute practices to
  accommodate Europe better. The first one is more convenient for Europe and
  the NA East coast should be able to work them on the low bands. (20 will be
  fading on the P4-EU path while 80 will be starting up . 40 should be solid.)
  The later practice will accommodate NA coast to coast, primarily on 40 and
  80 except for local ground wave on the higher bands.

  2300-2330 UTC, Thursday 25 September

  0200-0230 UTC, Friday 26 September

  Hope to work everyone everywhere on the weekend. Just need to get some more
  things fixed at the station here between now and then!

  73 - Ed P49X (W0YK)

  ___
  RTTY mailing list
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rtty

  -- 
  Andy K3UK


   


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6:32 PM

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PM

Re: [digitalradio] Pactor III licensing...

[David Struebel]

Just be careful, the earliest SCS modems didn't have Pactor II or III either.

Dave WB2FTX
  - Original Message - 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 3:26 PM
  Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Pactor III licensing...


  David Struebel wrote:
  > Sorry,
  > Can't do anything with a KAM or PK-232 (any version). Pactor II and III 
  > are proprietary modes.
  > Pactor II and Pactor III are only available on the SCS line of 
  > modems Cheapest one is the PTC-IIex about $900... Check this web 
  > site for their
  > US distributor
  > 
  > http://www.farallon.us/webstore/
  > 
  > The PTC-IIex with only Pactor II is $859, with the Pactor III license 
  > it's $998.
  > 
  > Do you need need all that speed? All Pactor connects start out in 
  > Pactor I, and only shift if the higher configuration is available at 
  > both ends.
  > What are you going to use it for? Winlink 2000?
  > 
  > Dave WB2FTX

  negative, a friend of mine just bought one of the SCS modems for half 
  price and I was wondering whether it was possible to upgrade one of my 
  TNCs. but, as I understand it, they will do Pactor I and that is the 
  standard de rigeur today.

  thanks
  chas
  k5dam


   


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10:10 AM

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Re: [digitalradio] Pactor III licensing...

[David Struebel]

Sorry,
Can't do anything with a KAM or PK-232 (any version).  Pactor II and III are 
proprietary modes.
Pactor II and Pactor III are only available on the SCS line of  modems 
Cheapest one is the PTC-IIex about $900... Check this web site for their
US distributor

http://www.farallon.us/webstore/

The PTC-IIex with only Pactor II is $859, with the Pactor III license it's 
$998.

Do you need need all that speed?  All Pactor connects start out in Pactor I, 
and only shift if the higher configuration is available at both ends.
What are you going to use it for?   Winlink 2000?

Dave WB2FTX
  - Original Message - 
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 2:54 PM
  Subject: [digitalradio] Pactor III licensing...



  I have a KAM XL and a fully tricked out PK232.

  can either of them be licensed for Pactor III?

  what is the cost of upgrading to II and to III?

  thanks
  chas k5dam


   


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Re: [digitalradio] Not enough Serial Ports

[David Struebel]

You can get a USB to RS-232 serial adaptor that will allow you (if you get two 
of them) to have up to 3 Rs-232 serial ports

Dave WB2FTX
  - Original Message - 
  From: Barry Mertz 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 1:06 PM
  Subject: [digitalradio] Not enough Serial Ports


  Questions: I am using an old IBM with Windows 98 operating system. The 
  computer has two usb ports and one DB9 serial port. This is what I want 
  to hook up. An MFJ-1275 sound card adapter. I also want to run HAM 
  Radio Deluxe and control to radios with the CAT interface. A Yaesu FT-
  920 HF and a FT-847 both is CAT capable. 

  I would like to study

  CAT on the 920 & 847 two serial reports required I have one on the 
  computer?
  MFJ-1275 to be used on both radios I am thinking a Patch Bay. I will 
  move the cables if needed.

  I have allot of items that require a serial port and only one, a switch 
  to switch the Items to the one port. Or is there a better way. 

  Can someone help the old "Gunny" KC8SXG Barry 



   


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7:44 PM

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Fw: [illinoisdigitalham] Will You Let FCC Kill Digital Radio Technology?

[David Struebel]

Dave,

Do you sit there at your computer waiting for any reply in this thread to 
immediately respond to?

Dave WB2FTX
  - Original Message - 
  From: Dave Bernstein 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:30 PM
  Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Fw: [illinoisdigitalham] Will You Let FCC Kill 
Digital Radio Technology?


  >>>AA6YQ comments below

  --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, David Struebel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

  Thanks for your comments... We do make substantial use of 30 meters on 
  a regular basis... However, within Eastern area we also rely heavily on 
  80 and 40 hence my comments By the way NTS has been around for over 
  50 years. Are your suggesting that we discontinue operations, 
  especially during a contest?

  >>>Not at all. I'm only suggesting that during congested conditions, it 
  will take longer to deliver messages over the amateur bands. This is a 
  desirable property of these bands, as Peter G3PLX so nicely pointed out.

  73,

  Dave, AA6YQ



   


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1:34 PM

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Questions on digital opposition, QRM on PACTOR PMBOS now from DAVE, Congrats

[David Struebel]

Listen to mineIt IDs in CW at the end of an unsucessful connect attempt 
and at the end of a completed connect... The rules allow for ID via Pactor 
exchanges in the interim showing the callsigns of both stations.

Dave WB2FTX
  - Original Message - 
  From: Dave Bernstein 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:26 PM
  Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Questions on digital opposition, QRM on PACTOR 
PMBOS now from DAVE, Congrats


  I have never heard a WinLink PMBO identify in CW.

  73,

  Dave, AA6YQ

  --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, "John Becker, WØJAB" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote:
  >
  > At 04:37 PM 12/27/2007, you wrote:
  > Unless you're willing to purchase an SCS TNC, you will not be 
  able 
  > >to know who or what QRM'd you. A requirement that all unattended 
  > >stations identify in CW at least once within each 5-minute period of 
  > >activity would eliminate this problem.
  > 
  > Dave I'm not to sure about this.
  > My pactor station *WILL* ID in either CW or P1 my call
  > no matter what pactor mode I'm running at the time.
  > 
  > John, W0JAB
  >



   


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1:34 PM

Re: [digitalradio] Re: Fw: [illinoisdigitalham] Will You Let FCC Kill Digital Radio Technology?

[David Struebel]

Dave,

Thanks for your comments... We do make substantial use of 30 meters on a 
regular basis... However, within Eastern area we also rely heavily on 80 and 40 
hence my comments By the way NTS has been around for over 50 years. Are 
your suggesting that we discontinue operations, especially during a contest?

Dave
  - Original Message - 
  From: Dave Bernstein 
  To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 5:03 PM
  Subject: [digitalradio] Re: Fw: [illinoisdigitalham] Will You Let FCC Kill 
Digital Radio Technology?


  I'm glad to hear that you are using a busy frequency detector, Dave. 
  The detectors in PK232 and SCS modems are certainly better than 
  nothing, but are quite limited. Neither detects PSK31 transmissions, 
  for example. As part of the SCAMP project, Rick KN6KB (a member of 
  the Winlink team) developed a soundcard-based busy detector that was 
  reported here to be very effective at detecting most modes found on 
  the ham bands today. I have repeatedly suggested that Rick's detector 
  be incorporated in WinLink PMBOs -- a straightforward and inexpensive 
  process -- but there has inexpicably been no progress on this front 
  for several years.

  Our HF amateur bands are a shared resource; no one can stake a claim 
  of ownership of any frequency or set of frequencies unless an 
  emergency has been declared. If contests draw more amateurs to the HF 
  bands -- as intended! -- then yes, there will be more congestion and 
  it will be harder to find a clear frequency on which to exchange 
  messages. Using HF amateur bands to offer a message passing service 
  with guaranteed quick delivery times is simply incompatible with the 
  defined usage model for these bands. There are techniques you could 
  use to optimize performance -- like QSYing to the WARC bands during 
  contests -- but nothing short of exclusively-assigned frequencies 
  would enable you to achieve a guaranteed Quality-Of-Service. I 
  personally don't think the assignment of exclusive frequencies to 
  specific sub-groups is consistent with amateur radio -- except during 
  a declared emergency.

  73,

  Dave, AA6YQ

  --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, David Struebel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote:
  >
  > 
  > - Original Message - 
  > From: David Struebel 
  > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:33 PM
  > Subject: Re: [illinoisdigitalham] Will You Let FCC Kill Digital 
  Radio Technology?
  > 
  > 
  > Hi Everyone,
  > 
  > I've been following this debate for the past several days and 
  finally have to add my two cents.
  > 
  > I'm part of NTSD, that's the National Traffic System Digital...We 
  mostly use the old version of Winlink (before Winlink 2000) also 
  reffered to as "Winlink Classic" running
  > Pactor I II and sometimes III... We used to use AMTOR and Clover 
  but have all changed over to Pactor... Many of us are still using PK-
  232MBX's for Pactor I, others are using SCS TNC's All our connects 
  occur in the automatic band segments... Winlink Classic has a very 
  good "busy detector" in it... I've seen it work on not only Pactor, 
  AMTOR, and Clover signals but other including RTTY, dead carriers 
  etc...
  > Winlink classic when it hears another signal, postpones the connect 
  and then tries 15 minutes later for a total of three attempts at a 
  clear frequency.
  > I can tell you that with an active busy detector, our systems are 
  almost helpless against RTTY signals that come into the automatic 
  band segments especially during contests... Traffic thru put declines 
  severely during these contests.
  > 
  > We're happy with staying within the automatic band segments with 
  our 500 Hz Pactor I and Pactor II signals... It would be nice if 
  others realized that the automatic segments do contain stations 
  with "busy detector" armed and ready and please refrain from casual 
  operation there, especially during a contest.
  > 
  > I know I'm going to get a lot of flack from those of you that don't 
  like automatic stations, but like I said Winlink 2000 is not the 
  only Pactor operation around running automatically... We prefer to 
  stay in the automatic band segments... Please have the common 
  courtesy to respect our operations.
  > 
  > Dave WB2FTX
  > Eastern Area Digital Coordinator- NTS Digital
  > Section Traffic Manager- Northern NJ
  > 
  > 
  > - Original Message - 
  > From: Rick 
  > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:10 PM
  > Subject: Re: [illinoisdigitalham] Will You Let FCC Kill Digital 
  Radio Technology?
  > 
  > 
  > Packet?
  > 
  > This does not have much to d

[digitalradio] Fw: [illinoisdigitalham] Will You Let FCC Kill Digital Radio Technology?

[David Struebel]

- Original Message - 
From: David Struebel 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: [illinoisdigitalham] Will You Let FCC Kill Digital Radio 
Technology?


Hi Everyone,

I've been following this debate for the past several days and finally have to 
add my two cents.

I'm part of NTSD, that's the National Traffic System Digital...We mostly use 
the old version of Winlink (before Winlink 2000) also reffered to as "Winlink 
Classic" running
Pactor I II and sometimes III... We used to use AMTOR and Clover but have all 
changed over to Pactor... Many of us are still using PK-232MBX's for Pactor I, 
others are using SCS TNC's All our connects occur in the automatic band 
segments... Winlink Classic has a very good "busy detector" in it... I've seen 
it work on not only Pactor, AMTOR, and Clover signals but other including RTTY, 
dead carriers etc...
Winlink classic when it hears another signal, postpones the connect and then 
tries 15 minutes later for a total of three attempts at a clear frequency.
I can tell you that with an active busy detector, our systems are almost 
helpless against RTTY signals that come into the automatic band segments 
especially during contests... Traffic thru put declines severely during these 
contests.

We're happy with staying within the automatic band segments with our 500 Hz 
Pactor I and Pactor II signals... It would be nice if others realized that the 
automatic segments do contain stations with "busy detector" armed and ready and 
please refrain from casual operation there, especially during a contest.

I know I'm going to get a lot of flack from those of you that don't like 
automatic stations, but like I said Winlink 2000 is  not the only Pactor 
operation around running automatically... We prefer to stay in the automatic 
band segments... Please have the common courtesy to respect our operations.

Dave WB2FTX
Eastern Area Digital Coordinator- NTS Digital
Section Traffic Manager- Northern NJ


  - Original Message - 
  From: Rick 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:10 PM
  Subject: Re: [illinoisdigitalham] Will You Let FCC Kill Digital Radio 
Technology?


  Packet?

  This does not have much to do with the subject though.

  John Becker, WØJAB wrote:
  > Rick you of all people should know that one of the older systems
  > had a " auto-detect " or " busy detection " that worked very good.
  >
  > 



   


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1:34 PM

Re: [digitalradio] One last try for FSK keying

[David Struebel]

You should be able to pick up a used Pk-232 or KAM on Ebay for less than 
$100.00


Dave wrote:


I've burned up a lot of bandwidth in my quest for a way to key my
IC-746 (non-Pro) with FSK instead of AFSK RTTY, so this will be my
last post on the subject.

I'm looking for a used interface, TNC, or what-have-you that will
allow me to use the RTTY mode of my 746 rather than USB/LSB.

Can't afford new, or it would be easy. If someone has a working TNC,
such as an older MFJ, AEA, KAM, or perhaps an interface of some type
they would be willing to part with for a good price, I'd be pleased to
give it a good home. I don't care if it has PACTOR or AMTOR, or any
other modes except RTTY. All my other digital modes are set up for my
sound card. As long as it will send FSK signaling to the ACC1 jack of
my 746, I'll be thrilled!

Please reply privately, or the moderator may make me start paying rent
on this forum!

Thanks in advance and 73
Dave
KB3MOW

 

Re: [digitalradio] PK-232MBX

[David Struebel]

You want an RS-232C serial cable with a DB-9 female connector on one end 
and a DB-25
male connector on the other... Most electronic/computer stores hsouls 
have it.


Dave WB2FTX

AD5VJ Bob wrote:


I am trying to set up my PK-232MBX.

Can anyone tell me what the proper nomenclature is for the cable I 
need to buy for hooking it up to the computer?


I have on the computer either
a db-25 female serial connector
or a db-9 male serial connector

on the back of the PK-232MBX
is a db-25 female serial connector

I have tried searching ebay and can not find the correct cable.

Any ideas would be helpful.

Tnx bob ad5vj

 

Re: [digitalradio] Re: AEA232MBX

[David Struebel]

Harv,

Are these two Pk 232MBX's Pactor I compatible?  If so I'm interested in 
them.


Dave WB2FTX

Harv Nelson wrote:

I've got two pk-232's sitting here that haven't been used for a few 
years if anyone wants one I'll ship 'em anywhere.  let me know what 
you think they're worth.


Harv Nelson, N9AI
Washburn, WI

On 12/30/06, Dave Bernstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote:


In RTTY mode, WinWarbler can run a soundcard RTTY engine (MMTTY) in
parallel with an external RTTY modem like your AEA232MBX, a KAM, an
MFJ RTTY modem, or an SCS multimode controller. This can be used in
two useful ways:

1. to provide diversity decoding, which can improve your copy of RTTY
DX in poor conditions

2. to simultaneously copy a RTTY DX station operating split and his
or her pileup, accelerating detection of the DX station's QSX
frequency

73,

Dave, AA6YQ

--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com
, "AD5VJ Bob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:


I have had an AEA 232MBX, in fact two of them, for quite some time

now.


I used to use them all the time for RTTY and packet, but I am

wondering if these units no longer any good for Ham Radio, because of

the advent of Computers, the Digital Software for RTTY and Telnet

for spotting and the passing away of PACTOR I.


I know I can get upgrades for them for soundcard, ect. But is there

any use in doing that since I run soundcard applications from

the computer. Are they of more advantage than the sound card on my

computer or would I be wasting my time, money and effort?


Can someone tell me if these are good for *anything* viable these

days or is it true that they are just dinosaurs now?


I cant understand how they are still being sold at such high prices

new, if they are of no use, I just don't know what to use them

for that would be useful.

Thanks
Bob AD5VJ




 

Re: [digitalradio] Re: New ARRL Petition

[David Struebel]

Just so you are aware. There are some of us who don't think that Winlink 
2000 is the answer to our prayers.
Most of NTS Digital is still running Classic Winlink 2.9 which doesn't 
offer internet forwarding and relies upon direct forwarding from each 
Winlink
NTSD station via RF. We favor automatic operation in the assigned 
automatic sub bands. In fact most of our operation is confined within 
these sub bands.
Elimination of the auto control sub band is a real problem to us.   We 
plan to migrate to 3592 and 3594 in semi-automatic mode after Dec 15.  
That is a manually controlled station will have to initiate the connection.

73 Dave WB2FTX Eastern Area Digital Cooridnator NTS Digital

Danny Douglas wrote:


He appears to either be dishonest or ignorant. Take your pick.

Danny Douglas N7DC
ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all
DX 2-6 years each
.
QSL LOTW-buro- direct
As courtesty I upload to eQSL but if you
use that - also pls upload to LOTW
or hard card.

moderator [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


- Original Message -
From: "johnr3256" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
To: mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 12:10 PM
Subject: [digitalradio] Re: New ARRL Petition

> Hello, Bonnie:
>
> I'm glad to see in your latest post that you have toned down your
rhetoric. I assume from
> your earlier sallies that you have some standing within this group, 
but it

shouldn't lead to
> harumphing about comments that may not be exactly precise in discussing
what is
> abstruse material anyway.
>
> What I find fascinating in the latest petition emanating from 
Newington is

the ARRL's
> continuing fixation on WinLink 2000 and its concurrent inability to
explain to members
> why WinLink is being given priority status in its Washington operation.
After all, you only
> have a few arrows in the quiver, and it seems ARRL has gone to the 
mat for

about 5,000
> radio amateurs who use this mode from time to time and ignoring the loud
objections
> from the remainder. Meanwhile its other Washingto initiatives are
withering, not to
> mention that last week the League came close to calling the FCC Chairman
dishonest.
> Strange . . .
>
> 73,
> John, W3ULS
>
> --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
, "expeditionradio"

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Dave WB2FTX wrote:
> > > There are two types of "automatic" operation. Fully automatic
> > > means that the automated station will issue connects by itself.
> > > ...
> > > Semi-automatic operation will move below 3600 Khz after the
> > > 15th, in the 3590 to 3600 region.
> > >
> >
> > Hi Dave,
> >
> > There has been some misinformation posted on groups and websites about
> > "Automatic" operation on 80 meters. It is understandable that many
> > hams have been confused, with all those errors and confusion in the
> > recent FCC ruling. But, there are also a few hams who are trying to
> > "exploit" the confusion by spreading disinformation.
> >
> > In fact, it would be quite difficult to get a handle on what is
> > automatic and what is non-automatic, since automation is a moving
> > target in our changing world of technology. In the FCC's Amateur
> > Radio Service rules, as far as I know, there are no such terms as
> > "Fully Automatic" or "Semi-Automatic" used. If anyone can point out
> > these terms, please elucidate.
> >
> > The new "omnibus" FCC rules for December 15th are *completely silent*
> > on the topic of "automatic stations". In fact, it seems that...
> > whoopsy-daisy, the FCC forgot to read their own rules about them :)
> >
> > The only reason data/texting stations in USA, automatic or manual, are
> > all moving below 3600kHz is that the subband above 3600kHz is
> > scheduled to become a CW/Voice/Image subband for Extra Class licensees
> > on 15 December. This will happen unless there is a "stay" issued by
> > FCC in response to ARRL's recent petitions, for the FCC rules taking
> > effect.
> >
> > Even if the stay doesn't happen, emissions still remain available for
> > compliant automatic use in the 3500kHz to 3600kHz subband for
> > data/texting/500HzBW-image.
> >
> > Automatic operation will continue in the 3500kHz to 3600kHz range in
> > USA. There are many automatic stations, many types of automatic
> > stations, and thousands of ham operators who use these stations for
> > their enjoyment of ham radio, for emergency service, and for safety.
> > All of us will be packed like sardines into the 3500kHz-3600kHz
> > subband now. It benefits all of us, for good spectrum efficiency, for
> > all the automatic stations to run fast data... as fast as they
> > possibly can.
> >
> > That leads to one of the reasons for my recent proposed changes in the
> > 80m bandplan and digital keyboarding calling frequencies. These help
> > to provide a foundation for hams to effectively separate the
> > relatively different techniques of time-ef

Re: [digitalradio] Re: New ARRL Petition

[David Struebel]

Who are you calling dishonest or ignorant?
Look at the facts.  As  I've said in other posts there is a difference 
between Winlink 2000 stations running primarily e mail and NTS Digital.
We operate Winlink Classic 2.9 and don't use internet forwarding. We 
prefer to use HF automatic forwarding to get our
traffic passed. We fully support the ARRL petition to restore the 
automatic control sub bands. Lacking this we will operate 3590 to 3600 
in semi automatic mode i.e. where a connect will not occur until 
requested by a manually controlled station.


Dave WB2FTX Eastern Area Digital Coordinator National Traffic System Digital

Danny Douglas wrote:


He appears to either be dishonest or ignorant. Take your pick.

Danny Douglas N7DC
ex WN5QMX ET2US WA5UKR ET3USA
SV0WPP VS6DD N7DC/YV5 G5CTB all
DX 2-6 years each
.
QSL LOTW-buro- direct
As courtesty I upload to eQSL but if you
use that - also pls upload to LOTW
or hard card.

moderator [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


- Original Message -
From: "johnr3256" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
To: mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 12:10 PM
Subject: [digitalradio] Re: New ARRL Petition

> Hello, Bonnie:
>
> I'm glad to see in your latest post that you have toned down your
rhetoric. I assume from
> your earlier sallies that you have some standing within this group, 
but it

shouldn't lead to
> harumphing about comments that may not be exactly precise in discussing
what is
> abstruse material anyway.
>
> What I find fascinating in the latest petition emanating from 
Newington is

the ARRL's
> continuing fixation on WinLink 2000 and its concurrent inability to
explain to members
> why WinLink is being given priority status in its Washington operation.
After all, you only
> have a few arrows in the quiver, and it seems ARRL has gone to the 
mat for

about 5,000
> radio amateurs who use this mode from time to time and ignoring the loud
objections
> from the remainder. Meanwhile its other Washingto initiatives are
withering, not to
> mention that last week the League came close to calling the FCC Chairman
dishonest.
> Strange . . .
>
> 73,
> John, W3ULS
>
> --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com 
, "expeditionradio"

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Dave WB2FTX wrote:
> > > There are two types of "automatic" operation. Fully automatic
> > > means that the automated station will issue connects by itself.
> > > ...
> > > Semi-automatic operation will move below 3600 Khz after the
> > > 15th, in the 3590 to 3600 region.
> > >
> >
> > Hi Dave,
> >
> > There has been some misinformation posted on groups and websites about
> > "Automatic" operation on 80 meters. It is understandable that many
> > hams have been confused, with all those errors and confusion in the
> > recent FCC ruling. But, there are also a few hams who are trying to
> > "exploit" the confusion by spreading disinformation.
> >
> > In fact, it would be quite difficult to get a handle on what is
> > automatic and what is non-automatic, since automation is a moving
> > target in our changing world of technology. In the FCC's Amateur
> > Radio Service rules, as far as I know, there are no such terms as
> > "Fully Automatic" or "Semi-Automatic" used. If anyone can point out
> > these terms, please elucidate.
> >
> > The new "omnibus" FCC rules for December 15th are *completely silent*
> > on the topic of "automatic stations". In fact, it seems that...
> > whoopsy-daisy, the FCC forgot to read their own rules about them :)
> >
> > The only reason data/texting stations in USA, automatic or manual, are
> > all moving below 3600kHz is that the subband above 3600kHz is
> > scheduled to become a CW/Voice/Image subband for Extra Class licensees
> > on 15 December. This will happen unless there is a "stay" issued by
> > FCC in response to ARRL's recent petitions, for the FCC rules taking
> > effect.
> >
> > Even if the stay doesn't happen, emissions still remain available for
> > compliant automatic use in the 3500kHz to 3600kHz subband for
> > data/texting/500HzBW-image.
> >
> > Automatic operation will continue in the 3500kHz to 3600kHz range in
> > USA. There are many automatic stations, many types of automatic
> > stations, and thousands of ham operators who use these stations for
> > their enjoyment of ham radio, for emergency service, and for safety.
> > All of us will be packed like sardines into the 3500kHz-3600kHz
> > subband now. It benefits all of us, for good spectrum efficiency, for
> > all the automatic stations to run fast data... as fast as they
> > possibly can.
> >
> > That leads to one of the reasons for my recent proposed changes in the
> > 80m bandplan and digital keyboarding calling frequencies. These help
> > to provide a foundation for hams to effectively separate the
> > relatively different techniques of time-efficient fast digital
> > automatic operations from relatively

Re: [digitalradio] Re: New ARRL Petition

[David Struebel]

No,

First the FCC corrected its error and now Pactor III will still be legal 
after December 15th.
Since Pactor III occupies up to 2.4 Khz my opinion is that it is a 
spectrum hog,  compared to the 500 Hz or less of a

Pactor I or Pactor II signal.
There are two types of "automatic" operation. Fully automatic means that 
the automated station will issue
connects by itself.  The software NTSD uses listens on the frequency for 
15 seconds before a connect is issued.
If the frequency is busy it re schedules the connect to a later time.  
Semi-automatic means that the automated system is
scanning the frequencies but does not issue automatic connects.  It 
requires an connect attempt from a manned system before it will respond.
Semi-automatic operation will move below 3600 Khz after the 15th,  in 
the 3590 to 3600 region.


Dave WB2FTX

Roger J. Buffington wrote:


David Struebel wrote:
>
> There are other digital automatic users besides the email Winlink 2K
> systems you cite. The National Traffic System (certainly a part of
> ham radio, and has been around for over 50 years) uses the automatic
> section of 80 meters for passing traffic thru the NTS Digital system.
> The FCC new rule would prohibit this operation on 80 meters.
>
> Dave WB2FTX Eastern Area Digital Coordinator NTSD
>
> k
>

Frankly, that would work for me. Hope it does. Does that mean Pactor
automatic traffic will be illegal on 80M unless the ARRL petition is
approved?

de Roger W6VZV

 

Re: [digitalradio] Re: New ARRL Petition

[David Struebel]

There are other digital automatic users besides the email Winlink 2K 
systems you cite.  The National Traffic System (certainly a part of ham 
radio, and has been around for over 50 years) uses the automatic section 
of 80 meters for passing traffic thru the NTS Digital system.  The FCC 
new rule would prohibit this operation on 80 meters.


Dave WB2FTX
Eastern Area Digital Coordinator NTSD

kd4e wrote:


Must we wait for the FCC to request comments on the ARRL
request or should we post our opposition immediately?

Sure do not understand why a neo-commercial digital
app (all automatic and most semi-automatic unattended
digital modes) cannot find a more appropriate home on
non-Ham spectrum.

Surely between marine and homeland security spectrum
there are places for that stuff, since much of it is
marine communications and the justification for the
rest has been mostly for homeland security apps.

Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the
water ...

Sigh ... doc

> "Rather, we ask only that the Commission restore the privileges
> unintentionally withdrawn from those who operate and who utilize
> automatically controlled narrowband digital stations between 3620 and
> 3635 kHz," the League said. The ARRL pointed out that while the R&O
> left unchanged rules permitting automatically controlled narrowband
> digital in that segment, it eliminated RTTY and data as permitted
> emissions above 3600 kHz.
>
> 
>
> This confirms the conclusion that the FCC's Omnibus Report and Order
> in its present form would eliminate automatic and semi-automatic
> operation on 80m.
>
> It will be interesting to see how rapidly the FCC responds to the
> ARRL's late-in-the-game petition.
>
> 73, Dave, AA6YQ

--

Thanks! & 73, doc, KD4E
... in sunny & warm Florida :-)
~~~
Thank our brave soldiers this season:
http://www.letssaythanks.com/Home1024.html 


~~~
URL: bibleseven (dot) com

 

Re: [digitalradio] pactor via sound card?

[David Struebel]

Sound card software will not work very well with Pactor because of the 
timing requirements with

the burst mode

Dave WB2FTX

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


> Hello all,
> Does anyone know of a way to both copy and transmit on pactor? I need
> to put together a small digital station with just the xcvr and
> laptop. I don't need another box!!!

Get a SCS P3 box.. If you're doing anything beyond pure recreation with
it that's the way to go. It's a small box.

> Will be using it to send E-mail
> back from the wilds of Peru this summer if all goes well.

With a little luck I'll be consuming Inca Kola at the in-laws in Lima this
summer..

73
Bill - WA7NWP

 

Re: [digitalradio] Many FCC Errors: Voice/Phone/Digi 3600-3700kHz Re: What is mode?

[David Struebel]

FYI

Dave WB2FTX

Dave Bernstein wrote:


  
  --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com,
"expeditionradio" 
...> wrote:
  
>snip<
  
As for the supposed "loss" or "disappearance" of the automatic band at
3620kHz to 3635kHz, I do not believe this FCC error should be allowed
to stand for very long. 
  
Perhaps the FCC's interim correction to the rulemaking will be one of
these options:
  
1. Simply move the automatic band to 3575kHz-3600kHz, although this is
incompatible with bandplans of other IARU regions.
  
2. Drop all band restrictions for automatically controlled stations on
80 meters. Some form of automatic control will be working its way into
many of the different systems we use, anyway. So the definition of 
what is automation, and what is operator-helping computer programs is 
becoming as blurred as the antique definition of mode itself.
  
>>>With the widespread opposition to the relaxation of
constraints on 
unattended (semi-automatic) operation in RM-11306, as expressed by 
hundreds of comments filed with the FCC, one hopes the FCC would not 
casually decide to let automatically controlled stations run wild on 
80m or any other band. 
  
>>>Clearly, the FCC has been sloppy in its rollout of this 
rulemaking. Compounding this with an even sloppier correction would 
be a disaster.
  
73,
  
Dave, AA6YQ
  
  
  



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Re: [digitalradio] Re: NTS and traffic handling and digital

[David Struebel]

I think the title of this string should be changed. Most of the
comments have really no idea of the difference between
NTSD running "Classic Winlink" in the auto control subbands and Winlink
2000.   I operate within the auto control subbands
in automatic mode connecting to other NTSD stations Although no one
"owns" a frequency, I would not operate outside of these subbands
and possibly interfere with another QSO in a another digital mode.
you have plenty of space to operate. It would appear that operation of
other modes
in the autocontrol subands is deliberately inviting a confrontation.

Dave WB2FTX
Eastern Area Digital Coordinator NTSD

doc wrote:

  This has been raised many times during this and other
debates in the Ham fraternity about the latest cause
of avoidable QRM.

It is one of the examples people unhappy point to as
an illustration of ARRL arrogance "do as I say, not as
I do".

OTOH, it is kind of silly if not looking for conflict
to start a QSO on a freq one knows has been used to the
benefit of thousands of Hams for 40 years at certain
times of day.

It remains the responsibility of the operators of W1AW
to be certain the freq is clear *prior* to transmitting.

Perhaps an Official Observer should cite them to make
the point that no one is above the law, regs, nor common
courtesy.

;-)  doc

  
  
Hmmm.  I have sent them a note or two in the past over exactly that.  I or
someone else was using a freq and they fired up.  I let them no in
unequivocal terms, that is not suppose to happen.  They are no different
than anyone else on that matter, and should check every frequency they are
about to fire up, and slightly change if someone else is there.

  
  



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Re: [digitalradio] Re: NTS and traffic handling and digital

[David Struebel]

Again,

I emphazise that NTS exclusively operates in the auto control band plan
the actual scenario of QRM from an autocontrolled NTS station is remote.
I have seen my station delay tranmitting due to RTTY, Pactor, and CW
stations on frequency

Dave WB2FTX

Dave Bernstein wrote:

  Yes, lots of talk, but no description of an actual scenario that 
substantiates that talk.

The explanation, I believe, is that there is no such scenario. If you 
disagree, describe the scenario.

   73,

   Dave, AA6YQ



--- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, John Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
  
This has been talked about by many
Me for one.

At 05:32 PM 2/20/06, you wrote:


  I have never seen you or any one else here describe a scenario in
which someone already in QSO on a frequency is QRM'd by an automatic
station, and the fault doesn't lie with the automatic station.

If you can describe such a scenario, please do so.

   73,

  Dave, AA6YQ
  

  
  






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Re: [digitalradio] NTS and traffic handling and digital

[David Struebel]

John under FCC rules automatic control is authorized
3.620-3.635   7100-7105  10140-10150
14.0950-14.0995 and 14.1005-14.112
18.105-18-110  21.090-21.100 24.925-24.930 and 28.120-28.189
You must not confuse NTSD operation within these sub bands running
"Classic Winlink" software employing RF
forwarding to those stations running Winlink 2000 (or Winlink 2K) using
internet forwarding and primarily designed for
providing e-mail service. As indicated before NTSD operates almost
exclusively in the auto control  band segments.
Winlink 2000 stations operate in other sections of the the band under
"semi-automatic" operation where they must be accessed
by a licensed station. The old hidden transmitter effect is quite
common in this operation even though the originating station is
supposed to make sure the frequency is clear before querying the
Winlink 2000 station.

Hope this helps

Dave WB2FTX

John Bradley wrote:

  
  
  
  and where might those frequencies
be? 
  
-
Original Message - 
From:
David
Struebel 
To:
digitalradio@yahoogroups.com

Sent:
Sunday, January 15, 2006 10:58 AM
Subject:
Re: [digitalradio] NTS and traffic handling and digital


John,

You are grossly misinformed. The Winlink stations on the frequecies you
list are Winlink 2000 stations handling e mail messages.
NTSD operates almost exclusively in the small automatic control band
segments.

Dave WB2FTX

John Bradley wrote:

  
  
  I would like to point out that
Dave Struebel and the Winlink Group are responsible for most of the QRM
we enjoy on HF from unattended Winlink
  stations, especially around
14105 to 14110. 
   
  If Winlink, rather than
spreading themselves out all over the band, were to confine their
operations to a narrower segment, ie 14072 to 14080, and below 
  14105, leaving the OLIVIA and
other similar modes some operating room, then it might be worthwhile
getting involved with NTSD. This doesn't have to be done by regulation,
just a gentlemen's agreement would suffice.
   
  Like many hams, I have a pactor
1 TNC sitting doing nothing, but don't want to make a bad situation
worse . Until Winlink cleans up it's act, I don't want to be any part
of more QRM
   
  John
  VE5MU
   
   
  - Original Message - 
  
Subject:
Re: [digitalradio] NTS and traffic handling and digital


Winlink 2000 has solutions to many of the requirements that you list.
However in all cases until the computer calls
and delivers the message with an automated voice it still requires
trained operator at the delivery end.
There is an active NTS digital network but lacking in stations willing
to either draw the traffic off manaully or pass it on to other means of
delivery.
If anyone is interested in joining NTSD either as a digital HF station
or as a keyboarder to remove traffic drop me an email
and I can point you in the right direction.

Dave Struebel WB2FTX Eastern Area Digital Cordinator- NTSD

  

 
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Re: [digitalradio] NTS and traffic handling and digital

[David Struebel]

John,

You are grossly misinformed. The Winlink stations on the frequecies you
list are Winlink 2000 stations handling e mail messages.
NTSD operates almost exclusively in the small automatic control band
segments.

Dave WB2FTX

John Bradley wrote:

  
  
  
  
  I would like to point out that Dave
Struebel and the Winlink Group are responsible for most of the QRM we
enjoy on HF from unattended Winlink
  stations, especially around 14105 to
14110. 
   
  If Winlink, rather than spreading
themselves out all over the band, were to confine their operations to a
narrower segment, ie 14072 to 14080, and below 
  14105, leaving the OLIVIA and other
similar modes some operating room, then it might be worthwhile getting
involved with NTSD. This doesn't have to be done by regulation, just a
gentlemen's agreement would suffice.
   
  Like many hams, I have a pactor 1
TNC sitting doing nothing, but don't want to make a bad situation worse
. Until Winlink cleans up it's act, I don't want to be any part of more
QRM
   
  John
  VE5MU
   
   
  - Original Message - 
  
Subject:
Re: [digitalradio] NTS and traffic handling and digital


Winlink 2000 has solutions to many of the requirements that you list.
However in all cases until the computer calls
and delivers the message with an automated voice it still requires
trained operator at the delivery end.
There is an active NTS digital network but lacking in stations willing
to either draw the traffic off manaully or pass it on to other means of
delivery.
If anyone is interested in joining NTSD either as a digital HF station
or as a keyboarder to remove traffic drop me an email
and I can point you in the right direction.

Dave Struebel WB2FTX Eastern Area Digital Cordinator- NTSD

  








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Re: [digitalradio] NTS and traffic handling and digital

[David Struebel]

Winlink 2000 has solutions to many of the requirements that you list.
However in all cases until the computer calls
and delivers the message with an automated voice it still requires
trained operator at the delivery end.
There is an active NTS digital network but lacking in stations willing
to either draw the traffic off manaully or pass it on to other means of
delivery.
If anyone is interested in joining NTSD either as a digital HF station
or as a keyboarder to remove traffic drop me an email
and I can point you in the right direction.

Dave Struebel WB2FTX Eastern Area Digital Cordinator- NTSD

kd4e wrote:

  It seems to me that if the E-mail system is involved at
all then Ham Radio is mostly irrelevant.  Such messages
would likely to be rare except out of devastated areas
and even then folks are already deploying digital relay
stations to quick-up critical Internet access.

The need also presumes the absence of cellphone and
landline communications.

It seems to me that Ham Radio needs to offer a system
parallel to the Internet that delivers messages to people
without access to E-mail or where significant Internet
outages make quick restoration improbable (what that
means in terms of a threshold of downtime and of
geographical distribution is a future discussion).

We need a digital message forwarding system, that preferably
includes the capacity to optionally imbed small images, and
that has built in tracking and redundancy so that we always
know where the message is and if a station or a group of
stations are down there is always a way around.

It needs to be frequency and mode diversified so that the
best and fastest frequency and mode are automatically
selected (which may require the dropping of an attached
image to use a more simple digital mode in favor of getting
at least the text message through).

It needs to be operating system independent (MS Windows,
Linux, or Apple Mac) and require no costly and/or proprietary
hardware or software.

We have an example of cooperative distributed computing here: 
http://folding.stanford.edu/ so citizens (Hams) may be expected
to figure out a way to do this!

Just some thoughts ... 73, doc kd4e


  
  
The public now expects messages to be delivered in a reasonable time. I 
think 24 hours is about the maximum and really that is longer than most 
expectations. Digital could have had a really huge impact on traffic 
handling, but the interest is just not there.

The only possible way that digital traffic can succeed is if it can work 
for most hams with easy to use access and be accessible at all times so 
you don't have to show up for a net. I realize that the downside of all 
this is the loss of camaraderie which I believe is one of the main glues 
holding the current CW and voice systems together for now. And traffic 
that comes in with an e-mail address needs to be dispatched immediately. 
Ideally, we would also have better ways to insure delivery.

Will this ever happen? I used to think so, but have increasing doubts. 
We may see a different type of activity though with the newer digital 
technologies such as JNOS2, Winlink 2000, and now PSKmail where messages 
can be delivered via the net ... if you have an e-mail address for the 
recipient.

73, Rick, KV9U

  
  

  







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Re: [digitalradio] NTS and traffic handling and digital

[David Struebel]

There is an active digital system in NTS called NTSD employing Winlink
software and coverage from area to area.
Many NTS operators keyboard into these NTSD stations but the main
problem as always is getting the trafic delivered
locally. It makes no sense to be able to relay trafic via HF digital
but end up having to take it to the manual nets. We are always looking
for additional stations
to join us either locally or as NTSD stations. All it takes is an HF
rig, a computer and a TNC capable of at least Pactor I  ( the later
versions of the
AEA PK-232 will work. If interested please respond via e mail.

Dave Struebel WB2FTX Eastern Area Digital Cooridinator NTSD

Tim Gorman wrote:

  The ARRL folks should not be shocked at what has happened. When they negotiate 
agreements with other agencies (e.g. the American Red Cross) that prevent 
amateurs from collecting outgoing message traffic at emergency shelters, what 
do they expect?

The ARRL admitted in one of the latest QST's (Nov I think) that they AGREED 
with the Red Cross decision during Katrina to not let hams collect traffic in 
Red Cross shelters destined for loved ones from evacuees. 

As for routine traffic, there are lots of messages that have a reasonable 
delivery time that can be handled by the NTS. The ARRL needs to get off their 
duff and start being cheerleaders for this type of operation instead of being 
only cheerleaders for handling emergency agency operational and logistical 
traffic. 

I disagree that the only way this will work for digital is if it can be done 
on a store-and-forward basis. Your prediction is probably true as long as the 
ARRL and others continue to cast routine traffic as being unnecessary and a 
waste of time to handle. 

Especially in emergency situations, it is being able to get the message 
delivered that is important, not that it be done within 10 minutes. People 
waited days to find out about relatives in Katrina. Outgoing welfare traffic 
from that area could have been sent and delivered by hams much quicker than 
that.

Even routine birthday notices, christmas greetings, and just plain hello's 
don't require delivery within 10 minutes. And for someone that doesn't 
remember an email address or even a telephone number, amateur radio still 
provides a reasonable alternative. 

psk nets can operate at least as efficiently as the old RTTY nets used to. I 
suspect they can operate better since it is easier to manage frequencies and 
to dispatch sender/receiver pairs off-frequency than during the old RTTY 
nets. 

The real kicker will be the number of people that are willing to dedicate the 
time and effort to make such a system work. Even when traffic nets were valid 
alternatives to the telephone system (e.g. late 50's to early 70's), the 
percentage of hams that were dedicated to traffic handling, even on a 
part-time basis, was small. Since digital operation is only about 10% of the 
total operations today, my guess is that the number of hams willing to make a 
digital system work will be insignificant. 

I suspect that if you did a survey on this list you would get no more than 1 
or 2 people interested in doing routine traffic handling no matter how 
important the traffic is. 

Tim ab0wr

On Monday 09 January 2006 15:17, williams wrote: 

(excerpts follow:)

  
  
Because the need for NTS traffic became less and less about 20 years
ago, I finally decided that it was not worth the effort required and
only occasionally participated. Today the NTS traffic handles even less
traffic and we have seen that even during severe emergencies in recent
time, has almost no traffic flowing anymore. I know that even the ARRL
folks are shocked at what has happened.


  
  
  
  
The public now expects messages to be delivered in a reasonable time. I
think 24 hours is about the maximum and really that is longer than most
expectations. Digital could have had a really huge impact on traffic
handling, but the interest is just not there.

The only possible way that digital traffic can succeed is if it can work
for most hams with easy to use access and be accessible at all times so
you don't have to show up for a net. I realize that the downside of all
this is the loss of camaraderie which I believe is one of the main glues
holding the current CW and voice systems together for now. And traffic
that comes in with an e-mail address needs to be dispatched immediately.
Ideally, we would also have better ways to insure delivery.

Will this ever happen? I used to think so, but have increasing doubts.
We may see a different type of activity though with the newer digital
technologies such as JNOS2, Winlink 2000, and now PSKmail where messages
can be delivered via the net ... if you have an e-mail address for the
recipient.

73,

Rick, KV9U


  
  


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