[e-gold-list] 'financial architecture' for DGCs
Is there room for a 'reserve bank'? How should different DGCs be converted? To answer these questions consideration must be given to two distinct types of services: clearing and exchange. Clearing is required when different banks or account services support payments between their customers denominated in the same currency. Exchange is required when either banks or account services or DGCs support payments between their customers in different currencies. DGCs can support clearing of payments denominated in their currencies, either with standard transaction fees or at concessional rates. Alternatively one or more banks or account services can offer clearing services of payments denominated in a currency. Currency exchange can occur on sport markets or via intermediary services. Spot markets for DGC current do not appear to exist other than LESE (which only offers e-gold/USD spot market) and the now defunct Systemics/Digigold market server. Exchange services, however, abound, generally offering fixed rate exchanges subject to availability of inventory. Perhaps some existing exchange providers will offer more and more advanced services for merchants and consumers, via accounts of their own for their customers, from which they end up as the banks of the DGC world, offering a range of financial services, including own brand/related brand debit cards, interest bearing savings accounts, and multi-currency savings accounts and merchant account services. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: basic e-gold site usage experience
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Of course you put a COMMA between groups of three numbers in big numbers. Good grief. Give us a break JPM. John Kenrick didn't just make it up. I was taught to use a space, and never a comma at school and have done so ever since. It is the correct way to represent numbers. Why make some cultural pecularity the only way? Yours in pedantry David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] The problem of land value (was:Re: gold four pillars)
of land values from this analysis is one of potentially great volitility. There is no real upper bound in land values. The land tenure system can act as a giant rent disapation mechanism. Compare this to the pricing of a produced commodity such as gold. The intersection of periodic supply and demand gives an equilibrium price. If the stock of the commodity is too small, its interest rate will go up, making its price rise over time, generating surpluses that grow the gold stock over time. If the gold stock is too large, the interest rate will go down, making its price fall over time, generating deficits that shrink the gold stock over time. Thus the market equilibrium in general, and the degree of elasticity of the demand and supply functions in particular, provide for a stability of the price and flexibility in the quantity (i.e. the accumulated stock) of gold over time. Gold wins the title of monetary anchor in ways that land will never approach. There is simply no contest between a produced, non-specific fungible commodity that can be traded at extremely low transaction costs and a non-produced semi-specific, non-fungible asset that can only be traded at significant transaction costs. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: The problem of land value (was:Re: gold four pillars)
From: Robert B.Z. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Isn't your model a bit too abstract, yet at the same time incomplete as it does not allow for growing population and continued reduction in arable land? The traditional Solow Growth Model (SGM) is based on a rate of population growth, and a savings rate, and a rate of technologocal progress (productivity growth), so that over time both the labour supply and the capital stock increase, as does output per person and wage rates, but the interest rate is stable. The only change I have made on the traditional SGM is to introduce land as a factor of production, by changing the Cobb-Douglass production function from Y=t*L^a*K^(1-a) to Y=t*L^a*K^b*N^(1-a-b). One of the features of these Cobb-Douglas production functions is that the share of output to each factor of production, being the product of its marginal product and its quantity, is a fixed share of toal output, and the shares add up to the total product, without leaving a 'residual.' This feature applies to the three factor function as well as the two factor one, or one can simplify the function to Y=t*L^a*K^b, as N and (1-a-b) are unchanging and so can be incorporated into t. So, to answer your question, the three factor Cobb-Douglas production function and SGM, as employed in the model, does allow for rising scarcity and demand for land, and this is one of the reasons why it predicts risking rents and, potentially, very high and volitile land prices. It does not deal with the components of land use such as agriculture, residential etc. as it is a macro-model, not a micro-model. A proper understanding of land economics would indicate that the margin of viable land would be extended over time as the capital stock and population grows, however I do not yet know how to incorporate this into my model, and do not even really know if I ought to. What I mean to say is that due to continued net growth in population (allowing for reductions in some industrialized nations being balanced through the influx of immigrants from nations that continue to experience population growth), land becomes relatively more scarce, independently from the prevailing interest and rental factors. Adding to this the continued reduction of arable land and the growth and expansion of natural desserts and man-made infertile soils (over-irrigation, over-fertilization, etc.), the amount of usable land is gradually decreasing. Popuilation growth, as said before, is one factor in rising rental demand for land, however I don't agree with your assessment of land as being destroyed by man, rather I tend to support the view that land can and does get re-habilitated and improved by man, and this may allow us inroads into less viable land. Although obviously some land will become less viable for various reasons and problems, other land will have its problems solved. I suspect that food commodity prices will continue to fall, not rise as you suggested, as agricultural technology continues to improve faster than population growth and other demand factors. Regards David Hillary . --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Rebilling idea
True, you'd want your customers to already be expecting an email from you with the link at that time of the subscription period. If it is fundamentally insecure and risky why try and modify the implimentation to make it secure? The whole idea of this topic is that the secure account functionality be extended to invoicing as well as payer initiated payments. Incoming payment control functionality would also help merchants to prevent incoming payments they cannot easily link with a customer identity and/or order number. Sounds interesting. The only potential problem I can foresee would be aiding the creation of a horrible new form of spam that's internal to the payment system to go along with all the external spam we see via email (but maybe if it cost a bit to submit the invoice, payable to the proposed payee??). JMR Account holders should have incoming invoice control functionality to regulate and authenticate invoices. The simplest way to do this would be to allow receipt of invoices only from an approved billers list, established by the account holder. Essential information for a valid invoice would be: (approved) Payee, Amount, Invoice Number, and Due Date. Optional information would include order number and a description or purpose. Ideally, the biller should be able to send full invoice details in the form of a pdf file, for the account holder to view, download, save and print as desired. Invoicing functionality does introduce some possible complexity, but I think that it would be worthwhile considering the following invoice related functionality: 1. Recall or Cancel incorrect invoices and replacement with a corrected invoice if required. This process must be controlled by the invoicer -- the payee can contact the payer if he finds a problem/has a problem, and this rule would prevent the payment system being a forum for dispute. Note that recalled or cancelled invoices must be incapable of being read and/or paid respectively. 2. Future dated payments, so that payers can pay invoices on their due date. For guaranteed payment processing account funds could be allocated against such invoices and unavailable for other payments, or payments would be contingent on available funds. 3. Activity notification, e.g. generate email/SMS notification on invoice arrival, invoice due in x days etc. (to be controlled by payee). 4. Invoice tracking. Invoices lifecycle could be tracked as follows, with Condition= (Unpaid, Paid) and Status= (Recalled, Unread, Unapproved, Approved Unfunded, Approved Funded, Overdue, Rejected, Cancelled). (To qualify as approved, a payment must be booked for payment on or before the due date.) 5. Receipts and Notifications. The payer should be able to have the option of sending a 'Read' receipt, a 'Rejection Notice', 'Approved Unfunded Notice' and/or 'Approved Funded Notice.' 6. Conditional pre-approval. Payees could set up billers that they would pay invoices from automatically, subject to available funds, and other conditions (e.g. not to exceed x, order number = 123, due date =y etc.) I suggest that invoices be charged a fixed fee for each time the invoice is sent, e.g. 0.1g, charged at the time that the invoice is sent. This fee would be charged again for a cancel-reinvoice, and should not be refunded for recalls of cancellations. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Rebilling idea (corrections)
From: David Hillary [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3. Activity notification, e.g. generate email/SMS notification on invoice arrival, invoice due in x days etc. (to be controlled by payee). Correction: should be payer, not payee. 6. Conditional pre-approval. Payees could set up billers that they would pay invoices from automatically, subject to available funds, and other conditions (e.g. not to exceed x, order number = 123, due date =y etc.) Correction: again should be payer, not payee. I should be more careful to mind my ers and ees! Regards David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: inflation ( was Re: e-gold for stocks)
defaulted and liquidated, leaving strong and profitable borrowers. Credit quality is improved and risk premiums decline. Reserves move back into the banking system, the interest rate falls, capial prices go up, and investment and lending activity increase. So: there is no reason to expect all the banks to fail or all the reserves to leave the banks. Some banks fail and some reserves leave the banks, but not all. In Hong Kong, since 1997, office property rents have fallen by 75% and the banks have suffered a surge in bad loans. Deflation has occured in every month since then, and unemployment is over 7%, up from about 2%. But the banks have not all failed and the currency remained convertible, even when the risk premium on HKD vs USD went through the roof in 1998. This is not entirely similar to the hypothetical example, but it does show that even under extreme changes in conditions and considerable panic, there are always banks in acceptable health and no end of liquidity. I understand in the 19th century the US went through some very sharp depressions and bank failures without suspending the gold standard, devaluation or inability of investors to find safe banks. But this orderly wind up will never come, and the suspension of withdrawals will be more than just temporary. Why won't a liquidator carry out his professional duties and effect a speedy and effective liquidation of the bank? The only way to engineer an 'orderly wind up' would be by suspending all further borrowing until all loans are paid back (which could take 30 years or more, depending on what terms the loans were made). Once all loans are paid back, there is again enough gold to redeem all deposits. Nonsence. The banks assets are liquidated, i.e. sold for cash. The new owners take over the loan books. Staying on a strict gold standard, and allowing for borrowing and interest, simply can't go together. It depends what you mean by 'strict gold standard.' If you mean a 'gold coin standard' which makes debts legally payable in coin, this is perfectly at home with people making debt contracts denominated in coin. If you mean a 'gold exchange standard', which makes bank notes and depisits legally payable in coin, then this is perfectly at home with people making dety contracts in either gold coin or in bank notes or bank deposits. The historical problem with the gold exchange standard was that it criminalised the possession of gold by banks and US citizens, and therefore made the Unites States Federal Reserve Bank the sole gold debtor in the US, paving the way for its eventual default. If the proper bankruptcy procedures had been undertaken, the United States Federal Reserve Bank would have been liquidated, and the banks would have open accounts with BIS or IMF, or incorporated or established new reserve and clearing banks for their needs, and the gold exchange standard would have remained. The IMF has never defaulted on its SDRs, which continue to be as good as 1/35th of an ounce of gold. The BIS has never defaulted on its gold debts either. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Rebilling idea
From: James M. Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 6:26 AM Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: Rebilling idea I think this is already possible, with use of the easy URL generator at http://sci.e-gold.com combined with sending an email monthly/weekly/whenever. For example, if you click http://101574-USD10.e-gold.com it goes right to the spend page, and tries to give me ten bucks worth of e-gold (but please don't click me any gold for this example!). Sending this link out is easy, but at least one business has a history of reliance on the automation of credit cards to prevent users from noticing they're paying every month. JMR The problem with this is that it is not secure to log in from an emailed link. Also, it's not an acceptable invoice, as it has no invoice number, and no due date, no description of the goods being paid for and it is not as confidential as I would like my invoices to be kept. There is now a new invoice system down under called BPAY view, that sends your invoice to your bank in electronic form, which you can then log on with internet banking, view, approve or reject (It might even work with telephone banking). However it seems to be taking a while for any of the major billers, or my billers, to adopt, but the idea is fantastic, and should be copied by e-gold and other digital gold currencies. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: inflation ( was Re: e-gold for stocks)
Hmmm, you talk about banks offering interest rates, so why the gold would NOT be in the banks? Probably 90% of the gold will be in the bank. If 20% of the 8000oz bank deposits in your example are to be cashed out, there is simply not enough gold on your little planet. So if paying interest is successful in getting 90% of gold in the bank treasuries, why won't offering higher interest rates keep at least some gold? The reason can be very simple. One of the banks is rumoured to have made some bad non-performing loans, and likely to go belly-up, et voila, people rush to the bank to get their gold out, probably not just 1600oz, but the entire 8000oz that is on deposit. And there is only 1000oz of coins in your bank... Oh yes, there may be another 1000oz around that had not been deposited in a bank, but the banks can offer whatever high interest rate they want, they are not capable of redeeming 8000oz of deposits. Big problems... This is correct, bank capitlisation is the baliwark against running out of reserves. If the bank is well capitalised, it can liquidate its assets as a discount to replenish reserves as its depositors withdraw as much as they want. And if the bank is undercapitalised, of course they will run out of reserves because they run out of assets to liquidate! In fact I would say the bank has a duty to not engage in asset fire-sales, and to suspend withdrawals pending an orderly wind up. But no bank will be asked to redeem 8 000 oz in gold because each bank has only 500 oz of deposits. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: inflation ( was Re: e-gold for stocks)
So far so good. But now you have arrived at 8000oz in bank deposits while there is only 1000oz in real gold (coins). These banks will be forced to do the same what the USA did: announce that bank deposits are no longer redeemable for real gold. If people come to cash out 20% of their bank deposits you already need 1600oz of coins and there is only 1000oz of them... And that's what I was saying: as soon as you introduce borrowing and interest rates, you already off the gold standard. No, the interest rate regulates the stock of gold coin/bullion and its distribution between banks and non-banks. The model where the entire gold stock is in the banks is not actually realistic. The banks make profitable use of gold reserves in its business of borrowing and lending. The greater the stock of gold, the lower its marginal productivity, and the smaller the stock of gold, the larger its marginal productivity. When the gold stock is short, the interest rate banks offer will be high, resulting in deflation, that increases the price of gold, and the supply of gold and reduces the demand for gold. This produces a surplus that increases the stock of gold and corrects the shortage. When the gold stock is large, the interest rate banks offer will be low, resulting in inflation, that decreases the price of gold and the supply of gold, and increases the demand for gold. This produces a deficit that decreases the stock of gold and corrects the excess. There is an equilibrium of the gold stock between banks and non-banks, as the marginal productivity of the stocks is equalised. If the banks can get 6% p.a. from gold stocks and non-banks can get 8% p.a. from gold stocks (e.g. in reduced transaction costs), then the non-banks bid the gold away from the banks until these figures are equated. Of if banks can make 8% p.a. on gold stocks and non-banks can make 6% p.a., then the banks will bid the stocks of gold into their treasuries until these figures are equalised. If there is a change in the demand for gold by non-banks, this can be represented by an increase in the marginal productivity of gold by non-banks, e.g. suppose that it was increased to 12% p.a., up from 6% p.a. The non-banks therefore bid the gold stock away from the banks, increases the interest rate, and as their stock of gold increase, the marginal productivity decreases, and so the interest rate might only rise to, say, 10% p.a. This increase in the interest rate reduces the prices of new buildings and factories, and eliminate the profits of building them, which reduces investment demand in the economy and factor prices and product prices -- deflation occurs. This is an increase in the price of gold, which increase gold mining production and decreases consumption of gold, resulting in a surplus in the bullion market, which brings the interest rate down over time. So in your hypothetical example where 1 600 oz of gold is withdrawn from the banks, before this is half way done, the interest rate would have increased greatly stopping the banks from running out of bullion. Investors would not only be tempted to hold bank deposits paying attractive interest rates, they could also buy discounted capital assets. There is also a question of why there would be an increased demand for non-bank goldholdings. No reason is ever provided. And without a reason, there is no motive, making it counter-factual. Future interest rates are forecast by the yield curve, and it is the long end of the yield curve that regulates the prices of capital assets such as buildings and factories, which are long. In other words participants see and anticipate developing macroeconomic conditions, and put in place macroeconomic adjustment risk management strategies. This makes unexpected radical changes in interest rates and capital prices difficult to explain. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: inflation ( was Re: e-gold for stocks)
of gold. However this is too many steps for some people to follow -- but that's not my fault, it's just how many steps there are. The debtors and creditors are just like the landlords and leasees. Leasees can pay rent from the money they get from the productive use of scarce land. The payment of rent in money is just the lower cost way of paying, than the payment of the particular output of the land. The landlords receive money, and spend it on the output of land, or whatever they want. The money thus is said to circulate. Payments of money do not change the stock of money, just the ownership of it. In the same way, debtors pay money to creditors, and creditors spend money on the output of debtors or other people. The stock of money does not change as a result of interest payments. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: inflation ( was Re: e-gold for stocks)
From: Robert B.Z. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Danny, So the ultimate result is pretty much the same. Without extra money supply the average person would now be able to buy 10 times more shoes for his money, because they have become cheaper. With the extra money supply the average person now has 10 times more money to buy these shoes which are still selling at the same price. In the real world people MUST buy 10 times more shoes because the quality is so low to ensure ongoing consumption, because the money supply keeps growing and despite everyone earning more, somehow everyone ends up owning less and owing more. The reason for that is that we are all paying the interest on governement debts and interest on bank loans, factored into the price of everything we buy. How much does it cost to service public debt? well where I live, Australia, the Commonwealth government has a net debt of about AUD 30 billion. At an estimated 6% p.a. interest rate on public debt here, that is AUD 1.8 billion, which is about AUD 100 per person per year. This is about one day's after tax wages, depending on your wage rate. Put in terms of government expenses, it's about 1% of the cost of government. It's the other 99% that worries me! David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: China Gold
From: Joseph Firmino [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lastly I think trying to peg one currency's value to another's is a big mistake. It's not so easy to line up different cultures like ducks in a row. Simply put, You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Some one put a lot of thought into that bit of philosophy. I think when they finally realize this they'll be trading their shoes and anything else for gold. Joe www.loavesandfishessoupkitchen.com It's a big mistake to think that prices are not flexible enough and that economies cannot adjust their factor prices to respond to economic shocks when their currencies are fixed. Prices are flexible and can rise and fall quickly if required. This means that the exchange rate can stay the same and thus avoid the noise of moving exchange rates. For example office rents in Hong Kong (whose currency has been fixed to the USD for the last 20 years) have fallen by 75% since 1994, and 25% in 2002 and 18% in the first half of 2003 (Jones Lang LaSalle Hong Kong Office Rental Index). And between 1985 and 1989 office rents rose by over 300%, so prices can go up just as fast! A true free market gold standard would put all exchange rates fixed in terms of gold, and facilitate the greatest global division of labour and benefit from monetary calculation and exchange. I am writing a summary of gold economy macroeconomics and free banking -- explaining how free macroeconomics really works, debunking myths such as the claim that prices are not flexible enough -- which should be ready within about one month, for anyone interested. It also will include bullion market analysis (deficit/surplus, price of gold), gold stock and interest rate determination, new and old building value determination, building investment drivers, land development/redevelopment optimisation and the determination and distribution of fixed capital investment over land area, closed economy macroeconomics, small open economy macroeconomics, distribution of macroeconomc adjustment burdens and costs within and between factor and financial markets, the interest rate yield curve determination, free market macroeconomic statistics and their sources and uses, ethical and economic defence of free-banking including fractional reserve banking and more! Regards David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Income tax
Firstly sorry for any topic violations, I will just post a breif response to the questions asked. Japan has, in the last 15 years, clocked up an outstanding public debt of about 150% of a year's GDP, which is over twice that of the USA. And it made things worse, not better! New Zealand has been running a large surplus of about 3-4% GDP for the last few years but the economy keeps doing well. Germany and France are following Japan and getting the same results. So, how does New Zealand do it? George Hara New Zealand is generally rated as being the third most free market economy, after Hong Kong and Sinapore, after extensive market liberalisation 1984-1988 (Fourth Labour governemnt), and 1990-1992 (Fourth National Government). This included elimination of capital controls, removal of the wage-price-interest rate-rent freeze, elimination of quotas and import licencing, progressive unilateral tarrif elimination, corporatisation and privatisation of state trading departments (coal, oil and gas, rail, postal services, state banks, public works, airports, airlines, ports, electricity (generation, transmission and distribution), and the rest), product market deregulation, agricultural and business subsidy elimination (1984), tax reform including reducing the top tax rate from 66% to 33% (almost was reduced to 23% in 1988, but the Prime Minister backed out of the plan), elimination of the wholesale sales taxes, elimination of all stamp duties (including on land transfer in 1998), labour market deregulation (1991 'the method of negotiation is up for negotiation'), fiscal reform including the State Sector Act (a model state sector structure and reform recently promoted by its architect Sir Roger Douglas to the UK -- a must read report actually), Fiscal Responsibility Act (which resulted in surpluses since 1993 to the present, and the repayment of the public debt) and various other market liberalisation programs, including welfare benefit reductions in 1991. That is the primary reason for the overall good results, especially compared to the 1960-1984 period. The particular reason why the economy has been strong and surpluses very large in the last few years has been: needless tax hikes that increased the top tax rate to 39%, some cancelled defence spending and lack of participation in the war on terrorism, freezing of the unilateral progressive elimination program with a freeze in tariff rates until 2005, and a program to partially prefund the 'National Superannuation' by accumulating large surpluses in a dedicated fund, and resisting calls from the opposition to cut the top tax rate to 25% (and calls from its own tax reform commission, which recommended a top rate of 28% and a bottom rate of 18% only because the government specifically told them not to consider a flat rate of tax). Also general public spending has been falling as a percentage of GDP while brack creep pushes tax payers into higher brackets, and a property construction boom. And many expats returned home after 11/9/2001, and increased immigration and arrival of refugees. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Income tax
From: Robert B.Z. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 9:19 PM Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: Income tax Hello George, I have often wondered if it was possible to do away with inflation, all taxes, etc. and simply replace them with a flexible GST (goods and services tax). It is possible to do this, as Vanuatu has done (if you ignore the import tariffs). However, this is not what you propose. The simplified version would look like this: Every good and service is subject to a surcharge of say 5%, without exemption. Different to widely used VAT systems, there would be no way to claim the GST back, instead, there would be double and tripple taxation in sor far, that the raw material is taxed, the wages are taxed, the packaging is taxed, the cost of transport to the wholesale, the sale to the retailer, etc. It would likely build up to about 30 or 40% anyway, but it would happen to everyone, independent of income, property, background etc. Imagine the savings on paper work, enforcement, etc. There are very good reasons for avoiding the cascading effects of such taxes. Like the horrible distortion and the massive vertical integration that would follow. Income tax, as it operates now, can be greatly simplified by: 1. territorialisation --tax only income earned from the territory of the taxing authority 2. source orientation -- tax income at the first suitable opportunity and exempt it from any taxation and reporting after this 3. low flat rates 4. depersonalisation -- tax income assessable from property and business, without discimination among recipients. Now, the next stage, after introducing the system would be to set the annual rate in accordance with the marco economic climate. If the economy is overheating, increase the tax to 7 or 8%, shortly inflation will increase as business passes the higher tax on to the consumer, consumers buy less and start saving for the next low-tax year. Busines will drop the prices to increase sales, growth is reduced and despite the higher tax, the threat of deflation appears. Once that happens, the goverment reduces the tax to 4% to kickstart things and everybody runs to buy the stuff the've been saving for. Workable? Too simple? Not enough control over consumers? I don't know, you tell me :o) I'm afraid your macro-economics are as bad as your fiscal policy economics. It just does not work to stimulate the economy by fiscal policy, apart from structural reform of fiscal policy to reduce taxation and eliminate inefficient taxes and government programs (i.e. pretty much all of them). Japan has, in the last 15 years, clocked up an outstanding public debt of about 150% of a year's GDP, which is over twice that of the USA. And it made things worse, not better! New Zealand has been running a large surplus of about 3-4% GDP for the last few years but the economy keeps doing well. Germany and France are following Japan and getting the same results. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: When e-gold takes off in a big way
Nothing much would happen because: 1. Paper money will always exist because they are needed as a representation of a country's economic value. Just as stock goes up or down according to the trust of people in a company, so is paper money going up or down according to the interests of investors (and of governments) in a country's economy. The analoge of firm share price and national currency value is a load of tripe. There might be some correspondence between currency value and economic prospects, but that does not make centrally planned nationalised currencies a good idea. Far from it. It just represents noise in the crucial process of economic calculation. If gold would be the representation of economic value (everything would be priced in gold), there would be a problem because various countries would value differently the gram of gold... according the interests of investors (and of governments) in that country's economy (as in USA, EU, and... Somalia). Since that is not possible, it means that the price (in gold) of goods would constantly vary as the economic value constantly varies (and with this, increased extremes of economic value: severe crashes and luxurious wealth). Countries do not value things. Individuals and markets value things. Factor prices (i.e. wages and property rents) vary over geographic space and the efficient allocation of capital and labour over land/geographical area. This process is most efficient where there is a common money commodity base, and where money, labour, capital and products are free to move. This makes for more liquid and elastic markets for factors and products and so makes prices more stable and vacancy/unemployment rates lower and less volitile. It also reduces the variability of factor and product prices over geographic area (even ground rents). 2. If gold would become extremely popular and people would use DGCs on a mass scale, it wouldn't hurt paper money because the goods are priced in paper money. People would always have to exchange (even just virtually, since they don't actually get the paper money in their hand) DGCs for paper money to buy goods. So, paper money remains unhurt. Individuals can value goods in whatever metrics they want. The form of payment media has little to do with the unit of value -- the same unit of payment can support multiple forms of payment. If merchants would use DGCs on a mass scale, because of the low (and fixed) amount of gold available in the world, one would think gold's price (relative to paper money) would go up. If merchants would price their goods in paper money, you would have the above case, but, if merchants would sell goods for gold and there would be no paper money relative to which gold could go up, it would mean gold will have the same value (because it can relate to anything) and people wouldn't be able to buy much with their little amount of gold. Hence, gold would be abandoned as currency. There is no long term relationship between the demand for the stock of a commodity and the price of the commodity. Demand and supply in markets are flow functions of prices, not stock functions of prices. Its the interest rate, not the price, that regulates the stocks of commodities (see http://www.geocities.com/davidhillary/goldbanking/chapter1). 3. If gold wouldn't have paper money to relate to, it would have to relate to the goods sold for gold. Again, you have the case in section 1: the constant variation of the price (in gold) of goods. The more gold is used as money, the more fiat currencies are priced in gold. That is both for the exchange rate and the interest rate differential. I would suspect that if gold has a monetary revival, fiat currency central banks will peg their currencies to gold, and determine their monetary policy by establishing a rate of change of the log of the price of currency in terms of gold. For example a 1% p.a. depreciation rate would lead to a 1% p.a. interest rate premium on the currency. So, to tighten monetary policy the central bank would increase the rate of depreciation, elevating the interest rate. The peg could also be subject to ad hoc devaluations/revaluations, however, to the extent that they were anticipated they would have the opposite effect to the one desired. From this point the pressure to adopt a 'hard peg' (or convertibility) to gold would be great, as the central banks would be seen for what they are: noise-makers, and/or transactors would move their monetary assets into explicit gold denominated deposits and notes, and judge their profits and losses in gold. In conclusion, gold needs paper money so it could be valuable relative to that. Firstly paper money can be denominated in gold. Secondly, gold, used as money, is used to value goods, and is its price is the inverse of the price of goods. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL
[e-gold-list] Re: things I like about e-gold
From: Jim Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] What does Redeemable for Gold mean in the real world? It means that there is gold in the system, ounce for ounce with whatever is in circulation. It means that if everyone who has any e-gold simultaneously decide to redeem their online gold for real gold, there are just as many ounces in the real world available for redemption as there are in the online system. Redemption means they pay on demand in the redemption commodity. Buy how they find this commodity when demanded has little to do with redemption. I share you concern with the term backing. Debts are normally secured rather than backed. Debts secured by equal or greater quantities of their actual means of payment eliminate risks that the exchange rate between the security and the debt move unfavourably, and eliminate the risk that the exchange process, which would be unneeded in this case, were to fail or be unavailable. E-gold is a little strange to have a balance sheet listing the bullion reserves as assets because E-gold Ltd., the issuer, does not own the bullion. Is the balance sheet of the special purpose trust that does own the bullion? Is the balance sheet of E-gold Ltd? It would make more sence for E-gold Ltd.to own the bullion, and to encumber it in favour of the trust. This would allow E-gold Ltd. to have a balance sheet with assets to offset its liabilities. This makes the gold liabilities fully and quite directly secured by equal or greater quantities of gold. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: PMMIT/Havenco/Seamail/KATZ Global
New Zealand is based on British Law as they are under the Queen. The do not have a Telecommunications act in Britian like we have here in the US and there is less protection for hosting companies. Now you may be able to open a NOC in Maori owned territory and make a special deal inside the country especially if they get their way in the courts, but i don't think that would be a great idea. I can't speak about Australia, but I know a little about New Zealand. Graham could tell you more about that area. Gordon Australian aboroginies would, in my view, have a better basis for rejecting the sovereignty of the Crown than Maori could. The reason is that New Zealand was colonised and the Crown gained sovereignty via the Treaty of Waitangi*, which very clearly provided protection for property right in land, for Maori and settlers, and provided all people, Maori and settlers, with the full rights of British subjects. In other words Maori land has exactly the same legal status as any other land, and the same private property rights protections, under one and the same law. Its hard to see how any government could have a better claim of sovereignty, or how equality before the law could have been better provided for than provided by the Treaty of Waitangi. However, the Treaty, like the Constitution of the United States of America, has been abused to turn it into something that its authors never dreamed of. David Hillary *Her Majesty Victoria Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland regarding with Her Royal Favour the Native Chiefs and Tribes of New Zealand and anxious to protect their just Rights and Property and to secure to them the enjoyment of Peace and Good Order has deemed it necessary in consequence of the great number of Her Majesty's Subjects who have already settled in New Zealand and the rapid extension of Emigration both from Europe and Australia which is still in progress to constitute and appoint a functionary properly authorized to treat with the Aborigines of New Zealand for the recognition of Her Majesty's Sovereign authority over the whole or any part of those islands. Her Majesty therefore being desirous to establish a settled form of Civil Government with a view to avert the evil consequences which must result from the absence of the necessary Laws and Institutions alike to the native population and to Her subjects has been graciously pleased to empower and to authorize me William Hobson a Captain in Her Majesty's Royal Navy Consul and Lieutenant Governor of such parts of New Zealand as may be or hereafter shall be ceded to Her Majesty to invite the confederated and independent Chiefs of New Zealand to concur in the following Articles and Conditions. ARTICLE THE FIRST The Chiefs of the Confederation of the United Tribes of New Zealand and the separate and independent Chiefs who have not become members of the Confederation cede to Her Majesty the Queen of England absolutely and without reservation all the rights and powers of Sovereignty which the said Confederation or Individual Chiefs respectively exercise or possess, or may be supposed to exercise or to possess, over their respective Territories as the sole Sovereigns thereof. ARTICLE THE SECOND Her Majesty the Queen of England confirms and guarantees to the Chiefs and Tribes of New Zealand and to the respective families and individuals thereof the full exclusive and undisturbed possession of their Lands and Estates Forests Fisheries and other properties which they may collectively or individually possess so long as it is their wish and desire to retain the same in their possession; but the Chiefs of the United Tribes and the individual Chiefs yield to Her Majesty the exclusive right of Preemption over such lands as the proprietors thereof may be disposed to alienate at such prices as may be agreed upon between the respective Proprietors and persons appointed by Her Majesty to treat with them in that behalf. ARTICLE THE THIRD In consideration thereof Her Majesty the Queen of England extends to the Natives of New Zealand Her royal protection and imparts to them all the Rights and Privileges of British Subjects. [Signed] W Hobson Lieutenant Governor Now therefore We the Chiefs of the Confederation of the United Tribes of New Zealand being assembled in Congress at Victoria in Waitangi and We the Separate and Independent Chiefs of New Zealand claiming authority over the Tribes and Territories which are specified after our respective names, having been made fully to understand the Provisions of the foregoing Treaty, accept and enter into the same in the full spirit and meaning thereof in witness of which we have attached our signatures or marks at the places and the dates respectively specified Done at Waitangi this Sixth day of February in the year of Our Lord one thousand eight hundred and forty. . --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL
[e-gold-list] Fw: Snapster
If snapster worked, the demand for content by traditional recording studios etc. would be greatly reduced. However, snapster can itself buy or sponsor artists -- if it has sufficient marketshare and can itself capture a siffucient proportion of the benefits end users gain from the content. However, this is questionable. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: here we go ..
Why do currencies such as the Euro, Yen and Dollar move so greatly in relative value? The article claims that the fact that they do move +-35% in a period of a few years is inefficient but only hits at the possible cause: 'Under fixed rates, the central bank of a small nation devotes monetary policy to targeting the exchange rate with a larger neighbor; this is a policy. But a float simply takes away the anchor; for a policy you need another target--historically the price of gold, more recently some measure of the domestic inflation rate.' The policy target of the domestic consumer price level is flawed. The prices of consumer goods are just that: goods consisting of both tradables and non-tradables, and assume that consumers spend their entire lives in a single geographic location and market, and hence are stuck with non-tradables prices. The reality is of course that non-tradables are partly local factor prices (land rent, and wages) and production conditions (institutions, technologies) and partly goods whose values are found on international markets. The policy target should be changed to tradable goods. This would lead to similar targeting by multiple central banks and therefore more stable exchange rates. But what does determine the value of a currency? I am not sure really the answer to this, but it can be no more than the asset backing of the currency issuer. From this point it can be seen that central banks ought to hold assets that reflect the stability they desire from their own currencies. I.e. central banks should hold assets denominated in currencies that give weighted exposure to currencies used to price sources of tradable goods. For example if the US economy, and economies with fixed exchange rates to the USD produce 35% of global output, Euro 30% and Yen 25%, then all three central banks ought to have assets denominated in similar proportions to these weightings. An alternative is for central banks to hold a common reserve asset denomination such as gold. This would, of course lead to both stability in currency value in terms of both gold and other currencies. Implimentation of monetary policy can be changed from interest rates to exchange rates as follows: Each central bank determines the value of its own currency. When the market value of its currency falls below this amount, the central bank steps in and buys its own currency back at a discount to its value and makes a profit, improving its balance sheet and asset backing per unit of currency. When a currency trades at above its assessed value the central bank sells its currency for a premium and enhances its asset backing per unit of currency. A central bank that therefore accurately assesses the value of its currency and trades accordingly will therefore be profitable, while irrational central banks will wither. The interest rate differential between two currencies is the expected depreciation of one with respect to the other and becomes the benchmark for currency reputation. An alternative is for private gold currencies to arise as a significant private substitute money, and this will lead to central banks being priced against gold on a defacto basis, both for exchange rate and interest rate. Central banks respond by holding gold denominated assets and stabilising their exchange rates with respect to gold. This leads to interest rate convergence and ultimately to the global gold standard. David Hillary - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 7:39 PM Subject: [e-gold-list] here we go .. http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/rbartley/?id=110003691 Now I'm sure everyone here will peacefully agree with this... -- --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: gold ETF and GDC
Baskets of commodities are poor units of accounts, stores of value and mediums of exchange, and are therefore poor moneys. A tabular standard of value adds noise and politics exactly where it is least required -- to the reference commodity. Tabular standards are inefficient in redemption and settlement, because the actual physical delivery involves high cost multi-good transactions. The economic demand for money by transactors is derived from its capacity to reduce transaction costs. This is why mono-metalism is superior to multi-metalism or a tabular standard. The market for money consists of may forms including coins, bullion, notes, certificates and demand deposits. Substitution between forms of money must be low cost for the overall transaction costs of using money to be low. This advantages money that can be had in bullion and coin forms as well as financial forms. 'countries' do not buy and sell, individuals do. a 'country' is an aggregate of individuals over a national territory. Individuals hold money and other goods and trade goods for money rather than other goods, to reduce transaction costs. Why would an individual exchange his goods for a 'gold credit' issued by an unspecified party redeemable in a number of moneth time and paying no interest? He would do well to exchange his goods for the liquid debt of a creditworthy bank (i.e. demend deposits). What's the problem with interest anyway? some dumb ass said it was bad to pay interest and imposed inflated transaction costs an anyone dumb enough to try and price money implicitly. Any of course anyone can create an imaginary good to pay for in installments. Liquidity is good. To offer liquidity for a fee that is less than its value makes people better off. To offer to pay for liquidity for more than it costs also makes people better off. To restrict this market makes people worse off. The morality that restricts trade in liqudity is in error. Anyone who accepts morality that restricts trade in liquidity has either a poor understanding or a faulty moral compass or both. To outlow the bond market is a dumb thing to do. Companies still want debt finance and asset managets still want access to fixed income securities. Companies would obviously offer fixed dividend stock with a prior claim on company assets, no voting rights and right of redemption at some future date. People who change names of things and pretend that they don't exist anymore are dumb asses. People who denounce X, rename it Y and do it themselves, are hypocrites. Moral arbitrage is morally questionable. - Original Message - From: Robert S.Z. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 2:26 AM Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: gold ETF and GDC --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: anybody can freeze your account by court order
a smart accounts based payment system would allow the account owner to control both incoming and outgoing payments. The logic is as follows: payments can be made by the payer authorising the payment then either sending it to the payee as a cheque, or through the accounts system as a transfer. payees can set their accounts to accept all, limited or no payments, for example only accept payments with a valid customer reference number, only accept payments of more than 10 grams, only accept payments through the shopping cart interface, only accept payments from enumerated accounts etc. Transfer type payments will reject if the payee's account is set to reject the payment, allowing the payer to know right away of a problem. Cheque type payments could be accepted (deposited), rejected or ignored by the payee. Accepted payments would be cleared or bounce on deposit. Cheques could be reserved against the payer's account balance, e.g. a 10 gram secured cheque would reduce the payer's available balance by 10 grams (this reserving could have an expiry date). Accounts could also set reclaim ability, e.g. a 5 day reclaim availability (this would also reduce the account's available balance). --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Is technology available?
Its an interesting question, that of security requirements for a global gold standard. No new technology is needed, if all the central banks of the world decided to deregulate interest rates and irrevokably peg their currencies to wholesale gold bullion. This is a policy decision. If undertaken the interest rates on all currencies would converge at a world nomincal interest rate, and global gold standard macro-economics would become effective right away, with adjustments to factor prices and allocations in economices to adjust.to shocks. All necessary security technology already exists and has existed for decades or even centuries, its just a policy matter. The two main fundamental forms of money are bank notes and bank accounts. The three fundamental forms of payment are physical transfer of bank notes, cheques delivered to and banked by the payee, and transfer instructions delivered to the bank by the payer. The methods of authentication are myriad. One can inspect bank notes for authenticating signals, check manual signatures on cheques for authenticity, and check manual signatures on transfer instructions. The technologies for making bank notes difficult to counterfeit and easy to authenticate are myriad, and include transparent sections, woven or embedded, special paper or polymers, watermarks, microtext, increasing or decreasing font sizes on words or numbers, serial numbers, back-front image mismatch indicators, special inks and colours and imprinting or marks on transparent sections. These technologies are geared to both give notes a distinctive look and feel that would be noticed if it were missing by most users, and to the ability of banks and cash dealers to use machines and specialist inspection to detect counterfeits. Manual signature authentication is normally based on comparison with an example on another document. This can be done with the help of technology such as scanning and electronic records. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Return to gold standard
The approach of comparing gold reserves and money is so totally wrong I can't understand why it would afflict so many people on this list. The value money held at a bank must be the lesser of its redemption value and the value of the bank's total assets to total liabilities (assuming all liabilities are equal). If a bank has assets worth 100 tonnes and liabilites (all deposits) of 90 tonnes, those liabilities are likely to be good even if the bank makes some losses and even if the reserves are fractional. It does not matter if the bank's assets are reserves, bonds or loans, provided the losses on liquidating bonds and loans does not cost the bank more than its equity. All major central banks have assets greater than their liabilities (typically by 10-20%), including the Fed. The Fed *could* sell its foreign exchange reserves for gold bullion. Suppose that gave it a balance sheet as follows: Assets Gold and gold receivebles 12 500 tonnes USD Bonds $660 000m Liabilities $700 000m If the dollar were to be defined in terms of gold, ar are P ($/tonne), the bank's equity would be $660 000m +P*12 000tonnes - $700 000m=P*12 500 tonnes - $40 000m. This implies that the bank would have positive equity provided the price of gold greater than $3.2m/tonne. At a price of $10m/tonne the bank's equity is 23% of its debt. So if the bank pegged it currency unit at $10m/tonne, it would be able to redeem its entire outstanding debts by selling bonds to replenish its reserves as needed. Only if its bonds fell very sharply in value (i.e. yield rate soared) would the bank's equity be endangered. If the pegged currency offered a yield premium over gold it would attract gold deposit. This arbitrage enables the peg to be maintained and ensures that the interest rate on USD and gold would be the same. Only if the peg was not credible (e.g. not contractually established or not enforcable) could an interest rate premium be maintained. There is simply no basis for valuation of a currency or setting of a peg rate based on a single form of asset. The rate to establish a peg should be based on the value of the bank's assets and liabilities, and the asset mix should be adjusted to onclude an appropriate mix of bullion, bank currency bonds, and gold denominated bonds. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Return to gold standard
unexpected redemptions is at a global economy level, the response will be higher interest rates to entice people to put their gold back intothe financial system to get the interest they would forgo if they held non-financial gold. Higher interest rates, if sustained will cause deflation and an increase in gold production and decline in consumption to address the increased demand to hold non-financial gold vs financial gold. Regards David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Return to gold standard
The present quantity of gold would be adequate to support a global gold standard. The ratio of gold held by banks to bank deposits can give an indication of the adequacy of gold. If the gold held by banks was 50 000 tonnes and the 5 000 000 tonnes, that is a metal reserve ratio of 1%. If the optimal ratio was 4%, the system will adjust as I describe later. However before we get there, it should be understood why there should be any demand for bank reserves of bullion. The bullion under a gold standard acts as the ultimate monetary base, a non-financial substitute for bank deposits as a store of value and means of payment. Some proprtion of gold bullion is therefore kept outside the financial system in direct ownership of individuals and non-financial entities. The demand for these holdings is to reduce transaction costs. At the margin, gold can be moved into and out of the financial system at low cost, and so the equilibrium is set be equalisation of the marginal utility or return from both forms. The financial system pays interest, the direct ownership does not, so gold is only kept outside the financial system if it offers a return in terms of lower transaction costs equal to or greater than the interest rate. If you think the scope for these savings is slim in a modern economy, I would not dispute it. If the reserve ratio is less than optimal, the banks offer more attractive interest rates. This bids more gold into the banks. The transmission mechanis is as follows: The shortage elevates the interest rate is above the long run equilibrium set by capital markets Demand for loans is diminished by the higher cost of borrowing, and equity investment is less rewarding due to higher borrowing costs and better returns from banks. Demand for construction of new capital (i.e. buildings, structures and plant) is reduced, as is demand for consumer goods financed by consumer borrowing. Aggregate demand is therefore weak, leading to deflation. Deflation increases the price of gold reletive to other goods, resources move from production of gold from production of other goods. The increase in supply and reduction in demand (gold consumption is positively corelated to general consumption) leads to an increase in surplus or closing of the deficit of gold. The surplus of gold increases the reserve ratio of the banks towards, to or past the optimal ratio. The interest rate elevation ends. If the reserve ratio is more than optimal, the banks will have excess reserves and wont be interested to pay high interest for more deposits and will be interested to lend out excess reserves for any interest rather than have them lie unproductive and unwanted in their vaults. The cost of holding gold outside the financial system is decreased and gold moves out of the banks. Interest rates are lowered. Lower interest rates reduce the price of both debt and equity making investments more economic. Strong demand for construction of capital, and strong demand for debt financed consumer spending make aggregate demand strong and lead to inflation. Inflation decreases the price of gold, resources move away from gold production to production of other goods. The demand for gold is increased along with general demand. Gold production is increased, gold consumption is increased, the surplus of gold is reduced or eliminated and a deficit of gold may result. The deficit of gold depleates bank reserves and eliminates the excess of reserves. So the process of adjustment would be deflation and higher interest rates if there was a shortage of gold reserves. If indeed there were to be a shortage. Additional note: most banks would hold no gold. Banks would hold accounts with settlement banks who would hold gold and bank/government bonds as liquid reserves. The settlement banks would handle the redemptions and deposits. If they run short of gold they simply sell bonds (small bank in big market) or raise interest rates (large bank having large proportion of total physical gold). David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Less-annoying settings (still somewhat-annoying...)
Thanks jim, its not a too bad compromise. Hope your day is getting better. This is a test message. My password is: --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Norfed Disclaimer
Yes. There is a law against uttering money. There is also the Civil War circuation tax with which Lincoln drove private money out of circulation. Best, Craig I have heard that USD notes issued by US banks are subject to a 1% p.a. tax. Does anyone know the details of this tax and why it presumably does not apply to notes issued by the federal reserve banks? Is it in leiu of income tax on implied seionarage revenue? With interest rates on USD down to 1.25% 1% p.a. leaves little room to make a profit on note issuance. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: I agree, People MUST know the TRUTH about me!
All I can say is that someone is REALLY pissed off at you. David - Original Message - From: Graham Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 7:58 PM Subject: [e-gold-list] I agree, People MUST know the TRUTH about me! This previous email didn't orginate from me. My name is not JOHN GRAHAM KELLY. Mind you, part of his name is very good! It also makes for an interesting read! --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Request for comments: Prevent data entry errors
Mark's DNS idea is actually quite a dumb idea because people mistype word as much or more often than numbers. People guess words when searching, but they don't guess numbers. A checksum or similar feature is the best way to guard against these errors. David Hillary Do as the internet protocols do. The obvious solution to the problem of account numbers (obvious I guess, if you're in the DNS business ;) is to create a system which maps human readable strings to the account numbers, similar to the way the Domain Name system maps hostnames to IP addresses. In fact when I first created my egold account the idea of creating a pseudo top-level-domain to do just this came immediately. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Opening Bank accounts
HSBC pays over 4% p.a., no account keeping or transaction fees (except A$15 for international telegrphic transfers), (very good) internet banking, telephone banking, free BPAY, card and telephone customer service. So good I opened an account last month. I'm closing my Westpac account soon but I must say they provide very good customer services (24/7 on the phone), good quality products and good creditworthiness assessment for easy personal lending and credit card services. However you pay a premium for the service with account keeping and transaction fees. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Maybe they're winning
very well said Patrick. Remember, however that strong stuff can and does become conventional white bread stuff. David From: Patrick Chkoreff [EMAIL PROTECTED] The first time I saw Paypal I figured it would be pretty successful because it had that nice happy conventional white-bread look and attitude, kind of like an AOL, Microsoft, or Disney. That stuff really sells, though personally I don't find it attractive. I like the strong stuff. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Anonymity
besides ALTA, there are also ricardo currencies, courtesy of systemics (although I was recently advised that Hansabux is sort of under review or not available for issue or something). David Hillary - Original Message - From: Kenneth C. Griffith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 7:21 AM Subject: [e-gold-list] Anonymity Just for the record, there is not any e-currency presently in operation that offers anonymous transactions. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Thanks to Ragnar/Planetgold and Stefan/TGC
what is wrong with a local government rating based on a proxy for water outflow (e.g. area) to cover the costs of, for argument's sake, a scheme to drain land, including your own? Ideally taxes should be proximate to the benefits derived from the services provided, and under New Zealand law (don't know about Australian states) the Rating Powers Act 1988, enables local government an array of bases for charging, and under the Local Government Amendment Act 1996 (number 3), local government is obligated to recover the costs of its services in a way proximate to the distribution of the benefits: 122F. Principles relating to funding of expenditure needs---The principles referred to in section 122E (1) (a) of this Act (which principles are not ranked in order of priority) are--- ``(a) The principle that the costs of any expenditure should be recovered at the time that the benefits of that expenditure accrue: ``(b) The principle that, to the extent that any expenditure--- ``(i) Is independent of the number of persons who benefit; or ``(ii) Generates benefits that do not accrue to identifiable persons or groups of persons; or ``(iii) Generates benefits to the community generally,--- the costs of that expenditure should be allocated in a manner consistent with economic efficiency and appropriate to the nature and distribution of the benefits generated, which manner may require the use of rating mechanisms under the Rating Powers Act 1988: ``(c) The principle that the costs of any expenditure should be recovered from persons or categories of persons in a manner that matches the extent to which the direct benefits of that expenditure accrue to those persons or categories of persons: ``(d) The principle that the costs of any expenditure to control negative effects that are contributed to by the actions or inaction of any persons or categories of persons should be allocated to those persons or categories of persons in a way that matches the extent to which they contribute to the need for that expenditure. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Double your money in seconds!
I'm not sure what you did to piss someone off but I can't play your game as yor account has a balance limit imposed. - Original Message - From: Jessy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:08 PM Subject: [e-gold-list] Double your money in seconds! 50-50 Gold is a simple realtime guessing game which can be played with the --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Standard Transactions
Well now that it is out of the box, when did they leave, why, and where are they going? David --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] banks speed of payment
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Today I made a payment from my Westpac Account to that of another Westpac customer, through the pay anyone feature, and I note that the transaction cleared right away and the message came through right away too. For all the bad things said about banks, at least some are on the right track. David Hillary -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBPJwvqRNDEcR4nEncEQJfiQCeJvOmH7eeAvAeDH59el5BiOQYsNMAoNZO BARQ2gF+b04XMr5POlYJBJ2h =Etm+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: history of gold confiscation
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 What Has Government Done to Our Money by Murray N. Rothbard http://www.mises.org/money.asp Rothbard commits two fallacies: 1. that the value of gold/money is merely a function of quantity of money and the demand for money and 2. that fractional reserve banking is wrong because banks are warehouses and/or banks are unable to meet all their contingent liabilities, were they to occur simultaneously. In answer to 1., the value of gold is determined by the marginal cost of extracting gold and the marginal revenue product of gold in industry and other non-monetary uses. Were prices to be denominated in gold (or a unit that is pegged to gold), then the price of gold would be rigid in the short term, and therefore the gold mining industry would be fairly stable, with profitability changes arising from productivity changes and unit cost changes. Gold consuming industries would be naturally protected from price spikes from due to price rigidities. Physical stocks of gold are a form of inventory (which is part of the capital stock), and like other inventories, they are held to cope with uncertainty and risk of supply and demand, these benefits being offset against the storage and opportunity costs (interest forgone) of storing inventories. To show the lack of a significant relationship between inventory quantities and the price of the stockpiles good, consider what would happen if individuals and firms decided to increase then demand for inventories of crude oil. While the accumulation of inventories acts as an increased demand for oil, increasing its price (thereby increasing supply and reducing non-inventory demand), once the accumulation has reached its level and the market re-equilibrates, the price returns to its former level. Thus while changes in inventory holdings can affect the price (opposite to the effect that Rothbard proposes) the price is determined by the marginal cost of production and the marginal revenue product or marginal utility in consumption. In a closed gold denominated economy, increases in the demand for physical gold inventories (e.g. if confidence in banks and debtors declines and people want to hold physical gold or banks with higher reserve ratios) occurs by temporary disinflation - rising price of gold, falling prices of goods. This reduces consumption of gold and increases supply of gold (the costs of mining inputs fall, making mining more economic). Similarly the decline in the demand for physical gold inventories occurs by temporary inflation. In an open gold denominated economy, the supply of gold is elastic at the price of gold, and so inventories can be accumulated or depleted without inflation or disinflation. (BTW the definition or disinflation and inflation here is changes in the price of gold (i.e. the price level in a gold denominated economy), compared to what would otherwise occur - prices, as indicated by CPI and other indicators, may increase while disinflation is occurring or decrease while inflation is occurring by this definition.) Once the desired levels of gold inventories are accumulated or depleted, the inflation or disinflation reverses (if it did not the accumulation or depletion would obviously continue!). To respond to 2., Rothbard's other fallacy, fractional reserve banking is not a form of fraud or theft, so long as banks to not make out that they are merely warehouses enabling transaction services. If banks state openly that they make loans and invest depositors funds, hold some back as reserves, and offer depositors interest on their deposits, as banks invariably do, then they are misleading no one about the nature of their activities and the credit risks that depositors take when they deposit money in banks. Banks have contingent liabilities (demand and chequeable deposits) and make plans to manage these contingent liabilities including maintaining reserves, maintaining a portion of their investments in liquid forms (e.g. government and corporate bonds) and maintaining a buffer of owners' equity to cover investment or liquidation losses. Again, provided that banks do not mislead or deceive their customers about the risks they are taking, there is nothing wrong with banks having contingent liabilities. If transactors want to have 100% reserve backed monetary services, they are free to seek them, and suppliers are free to supply them. Banks supply money. The term 'money substitutes' is unhelpful, like the attempt to define inflation as debt monetisation (the issue of currency or deposit balances not backed by reserves (but backed by a combination of owners' equity and investment assets instead). Money is that which serves the function of store of value and means of payment - be it bullion, monopoly money [in the context of the game of monopoly of course], federal reserve notes or bank money. Banks provide deposit accounts that are chequeable and available for withdrawal on demand, and this is
[e-gold-list] Re: Euro gold backing
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 ECB liabilities are currencly about 872 billion euros. gold denominiated assets are worth about 126 billion euros. so this give a ratio of about 15%. Foreign currency denominated assets are about 30% and the remaining assets are euro denominated. Although the value of the euro can go down with respect to gold, that fact that the ecb *has* these gold denominated assets on its balance sheet helps the ecb maintain the value of the euro with respect to gold, in the same way that the holding of foreign currency enables the ecb, and any central bank, to maintain stibility of its currency with respect to the foreign currency. The money is fait money whatever the reserves are denominated in. The holding of reserves does, however increase the capacity of the central bank to maitain a stable currency. David Hillary -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBPEcTwxNDEcR4nEncEQI+iwCguaQh0fLkjLGEM1uPkit3eAnRRz0AoLsG OMy69PrWDR7dWXd6ZTCvmhMQ =NfD6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] The other 85%
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 If the ECB has 15% of its assets in gold, what are the other 85%? if a central bank wanted to hold 'real wealth' apart from gold, what could it consider holding? David Hillary -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBPEVFLRNDEcR4nEncEQI19QCgy0i33xBZDXgLDqvZ1IuJ99ueFMMAoKnl 69rfwFX4N/TqYzb3y8rIRJMt =w9nP -END PGP SIGNATURE- --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: The other 85%
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 To answer my own question... Foreign Currency denominated assets 30% Euro Denominated assets 55% - - - Original Message - From: David Hillary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 8:17 PM Subject: [e-gold-list] The other 85% If the ECB has 15% of its assets in gold, what are the other 85%? if a central bank wanted to hold 'real wealth' apart from gold, what could it consider holding? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBPEZlmhNDEcR4nEncEQKNogCfR6ZhMQwKCm0eyTTRPaJRVQLXTmwAoKRh 1ADINMZTcFtamUbDMxPnCUS8 =miXn -END PGP SIGNATURE- --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] response on free-market.net
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Migrated to http://www.free-market.net/forums/e-gold0009/ as requested -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBPEKh8BNDEcR4nEncEQIe5QCfQ5hLZLrj1IBklHoUHSzHYafRuS8AoMrI 6aRbzUHG2zPQZH7lKjs+DpVz =quEn -END PGP SIGNATURE- --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Land Sovereigns
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 What is so outrageous about 'paying rent for the priviledge of land'? Nothing, per say -- especially outside the U.S. . . . HOWEVER . . . this is one of the prime areas of difference between the United States and all the rest of the World, now and throughout history -- In the United States, the Citizens _ARE_ the Sovereign. This is a unique, and important philosophical position. The United States was the first, and sofar only, country to ever have embraced this idea. If US political traditions consider individuals as sovereigns, what do they consider them sovereign over? If you say 'his body' then who is the government to say 'you shall not use your body to assault another man'? If you say his speech, then who is the government to say 'you shall not bear false witness against your neighbour'? If you say over his land, then why does the US constitution permit the government to appropriate land provided it pays just compensation? If you say over his neighbours then why does the US constitution outlaw slavery? Property taxes and land taxes have long been used in the USA, and indeed many of the first taxes imposed by US states were on land. Sovereigns without territorial jurisdictions are not sovereigns. On a man's land a man may not murder or defraud his neighbour, rather hi is constrained by the law of the land, imposed by the sovereign, over him and his possessions within the jurisdiction. The idea that individuals are sovereigns is a fringe theory in the USA and pretty much no where else, it had never been a political tradition anywhere. Individuals can enjoy freedoms, only sovereigns enjoy true sovereign power. Freedom is conscribed by law, law proscribes offending and sanctions punishment. Sovereignty is concribed by the limited capacity of the sovereign for violence, the counter-violence capacities of rival sovereigns and the market power of individuals. Individuals as sovereigns is a form of anarchism, and this has never been a foundational philosophical position of US political thinkers. The USA is a common law nation based on ideals of limited federal republican governemnt and individual freedom. Judges, legislators and executives were to govern within constitutionally specified powers. Individuals were to enjoy certian rights and freedoms. This is quite different from individuals as sovereigns, an idea the country has never 'embraced.' David Hillary -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBPEKNrxNDEcR4nEncEQJ+XwCgibGcIqy8d+uIk6kBdQjxOJ3ozT4An2qP As6zHHuXSWYf8GfretjOqd0h =/OGz -END PGP SIGNATURE- --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] money myths
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 There are a number of myths about money creation that have captivated anti-central bankers but do not advance their position. The act of borrowing by the federal government causes money to spring into existence. Public debt does not create money, it creates debt. Debt is the obligation of the debtor to repay, and an asset to its holder. The quality of the asset is a function of the credit worthiness of the borrower. Debt can be monetised by currency producers and banks and other deposit taking organisations. The debt of a person, corporation or government is not normally money because: 1. it is not normally used as a medium of exchange 2. it is not fungible 3. it is often not even liquid. Currency producers (such as central banks and currency boards) are organisations that typically monetise debt and maintain a balance sheet that consists of: Liabilities: Assets: Currency issued Liquid Reserves Deposit Balances Bonds and Loans Owner's Equity These items are related by the equation: Liabilities + Owners' Equity=Assets Currency producers monetise assets, including assets such as foreign currency reserves, gold reserves, government bonds and corporate bonds. They do not create money out of 'thin air' they create money out of assets that they hold. They monetise assets, including assets that are the debts of others (government bonds, corporate bonds etc.). Commercial banks also create money by monetising assets. The main difference is that bank reserves include currency board and central bank liabilities (cash and central bank balances). The balance sheet of banks usually includes loans as the biggest asset class, and banks maintain bonds and cash as more liquid assets, to maintain liquidity. Holders of bank money (i.e. depositors) have their money protected by two main methods: 1. Banks maintain positive owners' equity, as a buffer against lending losses and 2. Banks maintain liquid reserves and asset liquidation strategies to meet withdrawals This gives depositors confidence that they will not suffer losses of their principal and that their funds will be able to be withdrawn on demand. Holders of money and currency more generally, are reliant on currency producers (currency boards and central banks) for the effectivness of money as a medium of exchange and store of value. Central banks and currency boards can, by maintianing certian practices and objectives, better serve users of money: 1. Maintain positive owners' equity, so that they are capable of redeeming all their liabilities 2. Maintain high quality and liquid assets and 3. Pursue a monetary policy that preserves the value of their denomination of currency The simpliest way to do this is to be a currency board. This means that the currency producer monetizes assets denominated in a reference commodity such as US dollars or gold, and redeems its currency in this asset at a fixed rate. It maintains confidence in this promise by maintianing adequate assets to redeem al its liabilities at the fixed rate. The alternative to this is to be a central bank, and operate a monetary policy basedon pursuing price stability, full employment or other goals, although price stability seems to be most in fashion as the sole proper goal of monetary policy at this time. The favoured means of implimenting monetary policy at this time is via an Official Cash Rate (interest rate that is) that the central bank targets or is willing to borrow and lend at or near. Lowering the cash rate promotes expansionary policy, increasing the rate promotes contractionary policy. Central banks donot profit from expansion of the money supply, but from the interest it earns on its assets, less the interest it pays on its liabilities. On plastic currency outstanding, no interest is payable, so this can be a profitable business. On its balances central banks do pay interest, and so their profits come from the difference between this interest paid and the interest earned on its assets (e.g. bonds). The profits of central banks and currency boards are generally called seinorage profits. I repeat that the central banks do not make any profits from the actual issue of currency, as they must obtain offsetting assets to maintain their balance sheets. I am not defending central banking, just describing it and how it works. I would rather see central banks evolve into gold exchange standard currency boards, but one has to understandhow they work in order to apreciate how simple and easy this evolution would be. Hostility towards interest and the monetization of assets is not helpful. David Hillary -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBPECtsxNDEcR4nEncEQLDhQCgtcgM037UGiQdaOGm/JB2ksEfuAQAoPbo Ju4yD6mKRC3D/95vcbU0yxpQ =uQjs -END PGP SIGNATURE- --- You are currently subscribed to e
[e-gold-list] Re: Where does one keep ones wealth in an end-game scenario?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 The real reason for its existence is the making of money out of debt. The act of borrowing by the federal government causes money to spring into existence. There is no money. The FED does not create money. It creates credit. All banks create and extinguish credit. There is no money. What they create (credit) only 'passes' for money. It is not real money. Real money is gold and silver coin. money is an economic good that enables indirect exchanges, it acts as a medium of exchange, unit of account and store of value. This is entirely different from credit which is deferred payment, loan or debt. The debts of certian organisations may act as money, but the two are not necessarily the same thing. Most debts are not money, but they are denominated in money (money acting as a unit of account and measure of value). One good or another good might be better or worse to act as money, or one orgisation's debts might be better or worse suited to be money, but money is what people accept and use as such. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBPEDmYhNDEcR4nEncEQLeDwCeOtNzWFDStD7MxqT8rI0cYBe6y/AAn3JP ZUfcreRX0ymkEahnWujBlkEH =DooT -END PGP SIGNATURE- --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: re. Keeping wealth in land / re. CARA legislation was Re: where does one keep ...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 What is so outrageous about 'paying rent for the priviledge of ... land'? You did not produce land or its rent, the right to exclue others from it is a government granted priviledge that is not the result of your own labour, even if you traded your labour for this priviledge with someone else who the government made the grant to. A land title is form of delegated sovereignty over part of the sovereign's jurisdiction, like a franchise, and it is right for sovereigns to levy tax on the unimproved value of land as a fee for this priviledge and the advantages that it brings. It is not right for sovereigns to levy the improvements that individuals make to the land, or the goods that they trade on it. Such imposts are inefficient, distortionary, needless and confiscate a part of the labour, thrift and enterprise of individuals. Let individuals be free to trade and let sovereigns be free to govern, protect and profit from their jurisdictions. David Hillary -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBPEEnABNDEcR4nEncEQKvUgCghBwD8bQqi1L7uvdmKwwFGKJALH4AoPj6 qbOmXJDZL1/GxsEQpvfd+vQ/ =XYgY -END PGP SIGNATURE- --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] SRK on e-gold
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 What is the point of the secure random keypad on the e-gold server when the e-dinar server does not? Your e-gold account is accessible from e-dinar without the use of secure random keypad. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBPD0w6RNDEcR4nEncEQK9swCgsX/MBPf9/fQjHmer7q8iElU4xv4AoMLd B5ZKbr0N4KzSpwoL9m9qCFN4 =o1dN -END PGP SIGNATURE- --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: love thy neighbor as thyself
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jim's post is a great defence of the futility of trying to protect others from their folly. However, the claim that individuals can and should by the only protectors of themselves from fraud misses the mark. Jim wrote: The only way to defend an individual against fraud is for that individual to exercise caution, to be wary, and to be vigilant. That's the price of freedom, and every individual must pay. Self-government means the individual is responsible for his own welfare. It means that he is free to be cheated, free to starve to death, and free to find better people to deal with, while yet being free to get rich. Encumber him with rules if you must, and watch out for him as you please, but don't imagine that you can make another a whit more safe or a bit more free. Liability for one's actions and commitments is as fundamental to freedom as is due process of law. To the extent that an individual may be found to have caused damage or broken contract or acted fraudulently, giving them due process of law, they should be held responsible. The ability of trading partners to hold each other responsible in this way reduces the uncertainty and transaction costs of trading. The removal of this option may force traders accept inferior (higher transaction cost) alternatives such as reputation, and this obviously may be so unsatisfactory as to render the trade unviable. Jim also wrote: The presence of any agency, even a private one, that attempts to protect against fraud, creates a false sense of security. It cannot be wholly effective, but if it suggests to some users that they cannot be defrauded, it does them a disservice. Information is not free, either. Remove the cost of knowledge, and you remove much of its value. Not everyone can learn every lesson from others; some must be learnt by direct experience. Yes, fraud does much damage, but it also teaches wariness, suspicion, and reflection. Deals that appear too good to be true should be regarded with suspicion. How do you teach others to be suspicious? Reputation is a substitute for legal remedy in avoiding fraud losses, and reputation is attached to a producer. Like any producer, the reputation owner, enjoys some degree of economies and diseconomies of scale and scope. Thus the reputation holder may attain some scale and scope and specialise in certifying the performance of other traders. Thus an agency may act as a fraud risk assessment for many potential trading partners, and do so effectively, reducing information and other transaction costs and creating a legitimate sense of security on the part of traders. Just as armed security guards provide a legitimate sense of security to those they protect ( I know I dispatched a security guard to a bank that had a break and enter on new year's eve and the girls at the branch were very much assured), so intermediaries and agencies with good reputation can provide better default and fraud risk management than the dispersed traders. And just as individuals should have the right to be armed to protect themselves (a right I explicitly do not enjoy under the laws of New South Wales, Australia), so individuals should have the right to be suspicious to protect themselves from fraud. Of course I am not saying that any particular market model is optimal for all situations, only that the ability to sue those who defraud or deal deceptively or default on contracts should not be taken away just because the administration of justice, even under common law, is imperfect. Rather than protecting the consumer or investor from being defrauded, I would suggest that all efforts to help others in this area be turned toward the matter of compensating them once they've been cheated. Having the SEC seize the assets of alleged criminals helps the SEC; it does nothing for the victims. A program to identify fraudsters and their victims and a program to achieve the compensation of the victims by the criminals would be useful steps. I'm not at all sure how to proceed with either program. A better way to reduce transaction costs and enable people to deal with each other in greater certainty is to improve institutions (rules, laws). The removal of unnecessary regulation and complexity and the rationalisation of law based on the development of a clear hierarchy of laws and the principle of universality of rules (rules that apply to unknown number of future circumstances and persons), and the constitutionally bound evolution of the rules. This provides legal certainty and allows people to trust those they do not know and have never met before, e.g. you might go to another country and walk into a bank and give someone you have never met before a large amount of money, in perfect confidence that your money is safe! It is this environment of minimum legal uncertainty that efficient market structures develop and evolve
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold SCI
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 go to http://siddley.net/sci_test_result.cfm for the free goods! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBPBxwqhNDEcR4nEncEQK5/gCgt2Do/5AqPATY3Pcn9D8XNG1u9m4AnR2E YJPMdZKeAeHOOsjQVV0hcaLr =VfYj -END PGP SIGNATURE- --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.e-gold.com/stats.html lets you observe the e-gold system's activity now!
[e-gold-list] Re: e-gold SCI
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 result: It appears you are trying to rob me!! damn how did u know that? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBPBxyKxNDEcR4nEncEQLBJgCeJkOLYtSJU2Gd4IdBl0QZf8x7pmYAn3Av WspMQlm2JGQKaSJStqRfpu6f =5YAP -END PGP SIGNATURE- --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.e-gold.com/stats.html lets you observe the e-gold system's activity now!
[e-gold-list] banks: fast but infidel
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Westpac Australia now has facilities for international transfers from online banking (for a fee of AUD 15 (USD8)). I recently tried this service, transferring funds to a NZ account, and found that the funda arrived the next day but the information send with the transfer did not arrive till later and when it did arrive it had been altered. The receiving bank's representative said that there was only room for 16 characters of text or sum such, and so the message had been shortened and altered. David Hillary -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBPAW04hNDEcR4nEncEQLwoQCdHCq2FoyNteIIn/R4YbyHxJV718AAn3l5 isKNN+HhWhKrTDSwvY88sgJq =qOc3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.e-gold.com/stats.html lets you observe the e-gold system's activity now!
[e-gold-list] Re: The US Fed Dances
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Central banks hold reserves of assets sufficient to pay all their currency liabilities and all their deposit liabilities. This can be seen from their balance sheets. Central banks could retire all their debts and be wound up, and the economy could use a different provider of money. For example the Reserve Bank of Australia could peg the Australia dolar to the US dollar and sell all its assets (securities and foreign exchange), redeeming the entire Australian dollar monetary base, and the Australian people would use US dollars for money instead. Likewise the federal reserve could peg the USD to gold, and redeem the entire USD monetary base, while other organisations issued gold notes or gold warehouse receipts or e-gold or whatever for use as money, and the economy would migrate to a gold currency. This is what I believe should be done. Central bank debt, personal debt, corporate debt and public debt can be paid. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBO7ofRBNDEcR4nEncEQIuiACfZHcUAQCaa4M3mK3BIOeVsMkkhUgAoK05 qNKnMwNuRZ2P0355HJrlg2nQ =FSE8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-metal is a wonderful holiday gift? Avoid the hassle this year!
[e-gold-list] Re: The US Fed Dances
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 David Hillary wrote: Central banks hold reserves of assets sufficient to pay all their currency liabilities and all their deposit liabilities. This can be seen from their balance sheets. Is this a joke? The assests the central banks hold are called I.O.U.'s. I don't know about Australia, but in the United States the dollar is backed by debt. A dollar is nothing more than debt token. It is not even a promise to pay any more. The assets of central banks are debt securities -- debts of governments, corporations, individuals and other central banks and the assets of their central bank owner. The liabilities of central banks are currency and central bank deposit liabilities, which are assets to their owners (governments, corporations, individuals and other central banks). Central banks' balance sheets are like any other banks' balance sheets, consisting of assets, liabilities and owners' equity. Central banks are not insolvent. They are capable of paying their debts. This is not a joke. Central banks can redeem the entire monetary base of central bank balances and currency liabilities. The HKMA (Hong Kong Monetary Authority) is a currency board, but it can be considered a type of central bank, that happens to peg its currency to the USD (@HK$7.80=US$1). The HKMA has (more than) US$1 for each and every HK$7.80 in circulation and therefore its promise to redeem HK$7.80 for US$1 is credible -- it has enough US$ to redeem the entire monetary base at this rate. Central banks such as the Reserve Bank of Australia, while they do not peg their currency to the USD or any other currency, they, like the HKMA, do have assets that they use to defend the value of their currencies. The value of these assets exceeds their liabilities. Dollars are only worth what people are willing to exchange them for. The dollar is accepted worldwide because of the stability of the US Government, not because it is actually worth anything. When the US falls into a deep recession the value of the dollar will not be much. That is why the Fed is scrambling to try to stop it. A central bank can provide a monetary base to an economy and the value of the currency unit is that which equilbriates supply and demand for it. The central bank controls the value of the monetary unit by influencing supply by various means. It also attempts to influence demand by providing stability and credibility in its supply and the utility of its currency. Why do people have so much difficulty understanding money and banking? Its not easy but its not impossible to understand either. David Hillary -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com iQA/AwUBO7qpCxNDEcR4nEncEQIqLQCdEpAwD74+9m9nQzHin1X6HDFmlcgAoPNU rpQKFyCAHurtLIXn5ZcFPJkh =R6mW -END PGP SIGNATURE- --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-metal is a wonderful holiday gift? Avoid the hassle this year!
[e-gold-list] Re: Gold-backed Digital Currency
Annual production and demand are not relevant when it comes to determining the long term price of gold. At best, they are only short term influence. The reason is because of a very large above ground inventory that is at least 40 times larger than annual production/demand numbers. The past decade saw a steady annual deficit which was covered by gold dumped on the market by various sources holding inventory including mostly central banks and bullion banks playing the gold carry trade. The price of gold is the intersection of supply and demand curves. Gold has two demands -- demand for consumption and demand for investment (inventory building/bullion stockpiling). The non-investment demand (a.k.a non-monetary demand) is determined by the marginal revenue product of gold in industry. This will be like any other industrial input, subject to dimising returns the more it is used, and thus its demand curve will be downward sloping. The supply of gold is made up of mining and recycling supplies, and the supply function is similar to that of other competitive industries (i.e. number of firms is that which minimises average cost, price equals margin costs, supply is an increasing function of price etc.). The price of gold can therefore be modelled as a traditional supply/demand curve graph. The price can be read from the graph by finding the price where the surplus (supply less non-monetary demand) equals the gold accumulation. In the case of a sharp accumulation the price of gold would rise, reducing non-monetary demand and increasing supply, in the case of a reduction in accumulated stocks the price of gold would fall, increasing non-monetary consumption and reducing supply. In the long term the price of gold is tedetmined by the marginal cost of extraction and the marginal revenue product in industry, in the short term it is influenced by inventory accumulation or reductions. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-gold Ltd. stores more gold on behalf of customers than many countries? See http://www.gold.org/Gra/Gra1.htm and the e-gold Examiner at http://www.e-gold.com/examiner.html for details.
[e-gold-list] Re: Gold-backed Digital Currency
Come on guys lets have some clear and logical thinking. Gold stocks are like any other inventory, something which can be increased by investment (surplus of production over consumption). The supply curve for gold is upward sloping, like most supply curves, and thus an increased demand for gold inventories would increase the price of gold. The increase in price would reduce gold consumption and inventories of gold would rise. The global stock of money includes all bank deposits, not just the monetary base of notes, coins and reserve/settlement bank balances. Individuals hold money to obtain interest as well as to make transactions, and thus there is a demand for money backed by interest bearing lending as well as liquid reserves, i.e. bank money. The stock of gold needed to support a gold monetary system is a small fraction of the stock of money, even if the monetary base were to be 100% gold backed. The price of gold would rise if the world were to adopt a gold monetary system, but not exceedingly greatly. It all depends on the elasticity of the supply and demand gold production/consumption, and the additional need for inventories a gold monetary system would demand. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-gold Ltd. stores more gold on behalf of customers than many countries? See http://www.gold.org/Gra/Gra1.htm and the e-gold Examiner at http://www.e-gold.com/examiner.html for details.
[e-gold-list] Re: hansabux for e-gold
does anyone accept e-gold for hansabux? David Just out of interest, David, what are hansabux? offshoresurfer Hansa Bank Trust Company Limited The Hansa Bank Building, Box 213 Landsome Road, The Valley, Anguilla, B.W.I., TV1 02P Phone (264) 497-3800, Fax 497-3801, email [EMAIL PROTECTED] March 16, 2001 Recent Intertrader and Systemics alliance brings forth digital dollar from Hansa Bank Edinburgh (UK), Anguilla (British West Indies), 15th March 2001: Rachel Willmer, CEO of Intertrader Ltd (Edinburgh, UK), today became the first purchaser of the new digital dollar issued by Hansa Bank (Anguilla, British West Indies). Hansa Bank is the only offshore bank in Anguilla, a noted centre for financial cryptography. Hansa has been a consistent supporter of the conferences of the same name, held annually in the Caribbean. Lynwood Bell went on to say: This represents an important step forward in the field of online payments. Hansa Bank and Hansa.net Global Commerce, Inc. are dedicated to incubating and accelerating technology in new microfinance and digital trading fields. Having digital dollars will add an important trading facility in many B2B applications. Rachel Willmer, CEO of Intertrader (Edinburgh, UK), said I am delighted that the 'Hansa Bank dollar' is now a reality. The CashBox suite of supported payment instruments will soon be enlarged to offer the dollar and other Ricardian contracts, alongside Mondex and e-gold, to enable easy usage of digital dollars in the online retail sector. Ian Grigg, CEO of Systemics, added: Anguilla is a 'technology campus' for innovations like ours. We needed to meld our governance model into that of a forward thinking bank. We could only have done that with an institution like Hansa who already model themselves on the evolving Internet economy. The three companies involved all recognise that building the new economy is about partnering. It's a mistake to think you can build a financial system with just one company, or even an alliance of similar companies. Before we can build in the reliability needed to eliminate risk, we must have an interlocking network of diverse institutions, working together in separate roles, but all separately owned and governed said Ian Grigg. For more information, please contact : Lynwood S. Bell Hansa Bank and Hansa Global Commerce, Inc. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: +1 (264) 497-3800 Fax: +1 (264) 497-3801 Ian Grigg Systemics Inc Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rachel Willmer Intertrader Ltd 5 John's Place Edinburgh EH6 7EW U.K. Tel: +44 (0) 131 553 0380 Fax: +44 (0) 131 553 0381 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.intertrader.com about Hansa Bank Hansa Bank Trust Company Limited was founded in 1984. Its technology incubator/accelerator, Hansa.net Global Commerce, Inc. became publicly traded in 1985 and focuses in the areas of e-commerce location optimization, international trade technology and the marketing of Internet technologies. Hansa.net and Hansa Bank are part of the Span-Hansa Group comprised of ten organizations doing business in as many international locations. The Group's operations also include financing intellectual property, public stock offerings, acquisitions and mergers, and international marketing. Information on the Span-Hansa Group and other strategic partners can be found on the Company's Internet home page http://www.hansa.net about Intertrader Ltd Intertrader is a technology company specialising in e-payments middleware and applications. Its flagship product is the Intertrader CashBox payment management system. Intertrader have recently released Version 2 of the Intertrader CashBox, which delivers a complete value acquisition solution for payment service providers wishing to acquire Mondex and E-gold value. Version 1 of the CashBox system was used by Bank of Scotland in 1999 in a successful pilot of a pay-for-use Internet-access system. Intertrader recently announced a strategic alliance with Systemics for joint marketing of their combined systems worldwide. The integration of Systemics' Ricardo financial trading products with Intertrader's CashBox payment management system provides a complete solution for companies wishing to issue financial instruments such as currencies, bonds or shares. As a result of this alliance, Intertrader will implement support for Systemics SOX protocol within the Intertrader CashBox system to enable full integration with the Ricardo currency issuer and trading market products and will develop an online exchange application to manage the transfer of value between SOX-enabled currencies and others supported by the CashBox system.p Based in Edinburgh, UK, Intertrader was founded in 1995 by Rachel Willmer, the CEO. Intertrader has been recognised as a pioneer in the field of e-payments, numbering amongst its customers Mondex International, Beenz.com and Bank of Scotland. In 1998, it was chosen for the 1998 Scottish Foresight award from the UK Department of Trade and
[e-gold-list] nearly 10% of e-gold 'Disputed Funds'
The largest e-gold account balance (128kg) is listed as 'Disputed Funds' under the publicly viewable account balance page. That is a lot of funds to be 'disputed'! David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-gold Ltd. stores more gold on behalf of customers than many countries? See http://www.gold.org/Gra/Gra1.htm and the e-gold Examiner at http://www.e-gold.com/examiner.html for details.
[e-gold-list] Re: nearly 10% of e-gold 'Disputed Funds'
That discussion (about a scam where multiple competing parties tried to outexchange the proceeds (millions of dollars) from OmniPay) can be found in the archives. I think I am safe in saying that we do NOT want to resurrect that discussion. Please check the discussion archives. Ian Green I do remember that one, must have been a big one then! David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-gold Ltd. stores more gold on behalf of customers than many countries? See http://www.gold.org/Gra/Gra1.htm and the e-gold Examiner at http://www.e-gold.com/examiner.html for details.
[e-gold-list] Re: trust
I suggest you re-read the snippet you provided. A trustee holds property 'in trust' for some designated person or cause. It does not belong to him. This is why, for instance, if you arrange your affairs properly you can be bankrupt while benefitting from payments and/or the use of property held by a trust, and the property can't be seized by your creditors. Trusts must be legally authorised (the Common Law Trust people notwithstanding) by the law of the juristiction they are based, and as such are legal entities. You can sue a trust, you can get a salary from a trust, in some cases trusts must pay tax. You can be bankrupt while benefiting from a trust because the beneficiaries DO NOT own the trust assets the trustee(s) do. Trusts need not be 'authorised' in all jurisdictions any more than employment contracts -- in some jurisdictions they do and in others (for example the Bahamas and Barbados) they do not. Furthermore contracts can be registered but they are not legal entities -- they are agreements between legal persons. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-gold Ltd. stores more gold on behalf of customers than many countries? See http://www.gold.org/Gra/Gra1.htm and the e-gold Examiner at http://www.e-gold.com/examiner.html for details.
[e-gold-list] Re: The e-gold bullion reserve Trust
As long as I can transfer at will the benefit I have in this trust, I see no real problem. Is Goldmoney different since there is no trust that hold the gold. According to their user agreement, the user has the title to the gold? Individuals cannot hold joint title to property without some form of contract, structure or entity, for example in real estate strata title and body corporates. All these contracts and structures limit individual control over the property and make individual control subject to conditions. An individual therefore cannot own 1 gg in the same was as he can own a gold coin in his pocket. 1 gg is undeniably an unallocated interest in gold bullion held in allocated storage. Saying that I own gold when I have a holding of 1 gg is like saying I own my desk at work because I hold 100 shares in NRMA Insurance Group. I feel more secure in my interest in e-gold than goldmoney because I know that the trustees are legally responsible to fulfill the trust deed more than I care that I might own nominal title to some part of a bar somewhere (but no where specific). David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-gold Ltd. stores more gold on behalf of customers than many countries? See http://www.gold.org/Gra/Gra1.htm and the e-gold Examiner at http://www.e-gold.com/examiner.html for details.
[e-gold-list] hansabux for e-gold
does anyone accept e-gold for hansabux? David --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-gold Ltd. stores more gold on behalf of customers than many countries? See http://www.gold.org/Gra/Gra1.htm and the e-gold Examiner at http://www.e-gold.com/examiner.html for details.
[e-gold-list] Re: GBC
No, e-gold is NOT gold (nor is GoldMoney, despite their assertions). Both are transferable *derivatives* of gold. That is, they are contractual obligations whose value derives from that of gold. The principal contractual commitment is the obligation to redeem e-gold in gold on demand (under certain circumstances). This is 100% correct, e-gold and goldmoney currencies are contractual entitlements which depend on the reputation, capacity, structure, accountability and balance sheet of the counter-party to the contract. This should be fairly obvious as theses currencies have explicit user agreements and go to considerable lengths to make credible their promises to redeem their currencies in bullion. Gold backed currencies such as e-gold and gold money are financial derivaties that are gold substitutes, and their economic inputs include gold bullion (equal in quantity to the face value of the gold substitutes) as well as the rental of the reputation of the persons and entities that affirm the capacity and will of the organisation to redeem its currency. A well developed monetary system will also have other gold substitutes which have as their economic inputs fractional inputs of gold bullion and fractional inputs of gold debts. This will include gold banks and currencies that provide money to transactors. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-gold Ltd. stores more gold on behalf of customers than many countries? See http://www.gold.org/Gra/Gra1.htm and the e-gold Examiner at http://www.e-gold.com/examiner.html for details.
[e-gold-list] Re: A way to make it a true custodial arrangement
(I dont think you even CAN redeem egold AT ALL now, right? So what? Who says you should be able to redeem it? What if when you stored a bar with Viamat, the contract was you cannot take it out for 150,000 years, it must remain in there .. but of course you can still sell it to someone else etc ... it would be an ownership thing, it would not be a a contract promising redemption in something thing, ie it would be the thing itself, not a note for the thing...the paperwork surrounding the 150,000 year stored bar would not be Notes promising redemption in something, they would just be the paperwork supporting the fact that you own that bar.) where is this contract on gold ownership at viamat saying you cannot take delivery for 150 000 years? --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-gold Ltd. stores more gold on behalf of customers than many countries? See http://www.gold.org/Gra/Gra1.htm and the e-gold Examiner at http://www.e-gold.com/examiner.html for details.
[e-gold-list] e-bullion in exchange
Hi all, does anyone know what in exchange services exist for e-bullion? do any market makers exchange this currency? any that take Australian dollars? David --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Did you know that e-gold Ltd. stores more gold on behalf of customers than many countries? See http://www.gold.org/Gra/Gra1.htm and the e-gold Examiner at http://www.e-gold.com/examiner.html for details.
[e-gold-list] Re: !!!!!! 400 oz bars ARE SUPPOSED TO vary in weight, by pounds each way.
my guess is that all bars have a 'nominal' mass of 400 oz but in the actual bailment transaction the actual mass of the bar being bailed in is credited to the person's account, hence the difference between the '56 000 oz' of physical gold in the vaults and the 55 201.16 oz in circulation. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Newbie questions
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 10:57 AM Subject: [e-gold-list] Newbie questions Perhaps you can direct me to a FAQ for these items, but I couldn't find one. In particular, the e-gold site was no help. OK, here goes: 1. What is the difference between DigiGold and e-gold? It seems payment can be sent with either, so why two different systems? Digigold is defunct, e-gold is fully functional and its usefulness is unlikely to be interrupted by disputes between contracting parties (e-gold's assets and inputs have low asset specificity, meaning that they can be used for other uses and can be obtained from suppliers presently serving other uses). (Digigold relied on Systemics to operate the Issuance Server, and now that Systemics no longer provide service to Digigold, Digigold cannot be used) Digigold relies on an electronic wallet on the client's PC, e-gold uses a standard web browser only. Digigold charges no transaction, issuance, reemption or storage fees, e-gold charges transaction, redemption and storage fees. Digigold was intended to invest in gold denominated investments (low risk short term debt securities) while maintaining at least a 25% Primary Liquidity Reserve of e-gold, while e-gold does not invest it only procures storage of physical metal in vaults. Digigold was also to maintain Owners' Equity of at least 8% of risk assets. Digigold is based on digitally signed receipts, stored in an electronic wallet, e-gold is an account based system. Digigold has not turned out to be profitable, e-gold has turned out to be profitable. I am a big fan of Systemics and their products, however Digigold has been a failure. 2. (I may not be popular for this one!) How does e-gold compare with other gold-based e-currencies such as GoldMoney? GoldMoney doesn't seem to be as popular, but their web site is a lot more informative! Also, Standard Reserve? Goldmoney and Standard Reserve are good services and currencies. Standard Reserve does not charge storage fees based on the account balance, rather it charges account keeping fees, and this makes the pricing structure more simple. Transaction fees and account keeping fees seem quite high compared to e-gold and gold money, however the liquidity is clearly superior with debit card access. I find the website much harder to use and find information on. Goldmoney offers substantially lower storage and transaction fees for transactions under US$500 compared with e-gold, and does not charge fees to issue currency or redeem it. Their website is informative. Overall e-gold is the oldest and biggest, but the others offer various advantages, depending on what you are trying to do. 3. Transaction details: As I understand it, all you can do on e-gold's web site is transfer gold from one account to another. i.e. - no exchanges to or from currency, and no exchanges between the different e-metals. Correct? The e-gold website and account functionality allow users to spend money to each other's accounts and to apply to redeem currency. All exchanges between currencies/metals is done by third parties. 4. How is e-gold created? I mean, how does the gold get into the e-gold system. When I use a service such as OmniPay, they just (as I understand it) sell me some gold from their own e-gold account. But how did the gold get there originally? Thanks, Hans. Omnipay/Gold and Silver Reserve and other approved parties can buy bullion and bail it in, in exchange for e-gold. Goldmoney allows anyone to bail in London Good Delivery Bars, and anyone with a participating bank (e.g. HSBC) can buy these bars at the spot market price plus a small fee. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: * major announcement *
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 9:52 PM Subject: [e-gold-list] * major announcement * http://www.1mdc.com open for business at last, this Friday 13th. Enjoy! I'm guessing that while you have to leave your e-gold in for the agreed term to get your bonus you can take it out at anytime you need it? David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: E-Gold New Story 7/10/01
He added that the absence of credit risk exposure in using digital gold, rather than a traditional hard currency, could also change the way financial markets did business -- for example, in allowing the immediate settlement of securities trades and the clearing of multiple dissimilar financial assets. What does this mean? David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: The Bananagold Stats Contest.
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 4:18 PM Subject: [e-gold-list] The Bananagold Stats Contest. OK, here it is: When will it be useful for large retailers to accept e-gold? Large retailers are mass retailers serving mass markets. The only way the average Mum with 1 husband and 2.3 children will be using e-gold on her shopping trip is if its brought to her by Visa or Mastercard, in cooperation with the big banks. Remember that large retailers are themselves big business and can get EFTPOS technology on the cheap compared to small retailers, and that every person almost without exception has a bank account into which their wages or pension goes and it has an EFTPOS card. If GBC get used in large retailers it is through the EFTPOS system and hence will be brought to us by someone other then e-gold. David Hillary Comments: the meaning here is conventional bricks and mortar retailers; large retailers means chains (Walmart, specific supermarket chains, specific department store chains ... analysts will wish to choose their own examples, or may have another viewpoint). 'accept' e-gold would mean presumably using a POS device. A line of enquiry could proceed like this: retailer R has a number of different customers N spending S (all of those quantities being difficult to know); of the set of humans N a percentage P (currently trivial, presumably) use e-gold; that percentage is presumably (?) rising. 'useful' may (or may not) mean that that pecentage P reaches some critical size (perhaps an arbitrary size - 5 or 10% say - or a size found in comparison to historical precedents for new payment systems). As always the contest is absolutely free-form and proceeds in the nature of scientific enquiry. . .all premises, methods, theories are yours to decide (you may completely reject the approach mentioned in the paragraph above, or have another more-clever approach to the problem). A startling single sentence of insight may easily win, or, a careful collection of as-is relevant facts may win; a entry may win purely for style and presentation or it may win only for content. Entries may be a simple text email, papers, feature-length movies, talks, a/v presentations, or of any format or concept at all. The prize for this contest is FOUR (4) grams of gold, and yes, the prize is doubling every time. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] e-bullion spend fee
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (2) It seems to be stated that the fee for each spend is almost free - only 1/2 of one cent. The FAQ states that the transaction fee is a 'fifty cents (USD$ 00.50) fee' --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Goldmoney can terminate its obligations
Gioldmoney's user agreement states that Goldmoney can terminate it at will, expect for clauses relating to privacy, limitation of liability, intellectual property rights and conformity with laws. TERMINATION This Agreement will remain in effect and will bind both the User and GoldMoney until such time as the User's Holding is closed. GoldMoney may in its entire discretion cancel this Agreement and terminate the User's rights and obligations in terms of this Agreement, for any reason whatsoever, including, without limiting the extent of the aforegoing, any breach of this Agreement by the User. The rights and obligations of the parties to this Agreement in terms of clause XII, XIII, XIV, and XXI shall survive the termination of the Agreement. what is the point of a user agreement if it says that? --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Building web traffic for the gold economy
Sorry Ken, I have trouble figuring out what URL I am supposed to use as my homepage to participate. Can you help me and anyone else having difficulty following the scheme? David Hillary - Original Message - From: Ken Griffith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 1:36 AM Subject: [e-gold-list] Building web traffic for the gold economy A major part of helping the gold economy to continue to grow is to educate new people about the advantages of using gold digital currencies. I am in the process of writing a series of articles for The Gold Economy aimed at doing this. The first one is located here: http://www.goldbankone.com/content.php?page_id=5 I would appreciate any feedback from the members of this list on how to improve the article or add anything I might have left out. You are also welcome to use the article on your own web page as long as you include a link to The Gold Economy (www.goldeconomy.com). Another point of interest is a new web traffic building program called Startblaze. If several gold economy businesses and web sites joined Startblaze (which is free) it would get gold economy businesses being viewed by thousands of people who have probably never been exposed to it. Since it is free, the only cost is viewing the Startblaze home page when you first open your web browser. To check out the program click the following link: http://www.startblaze.com/cgi-bin/intro.cgi?39005 Ken --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Labour kills NZ economic growth
Statistics released today show that the New Zealand economy has stopped growing since the Labour led minority Coalition Government came to power in 27/11/1999. Labour's agenda has been almost entirely statist, and the new government has: 1. Raised the top income tax from 33% to 39% 2. Re-nationalised workplace accident insurance 3. Re-regulated the labour market, granting labour unions statutory powers to negotiate collective contracts 4. Unilaterally frozen import tariffs at current levels, replealing the declining statutory maximum tariff rates previously passed 5. Increased the target Government Expenditure to GDP ratio from 30% to 35% 6. Relaxed welfare administration and increased NZ Superannuation (over half of all expenditure growth is on transfers) 7. Enabled the re-introduction of Compulsory Unionism for university students 8. Privatisation become officially off the agenda 9. The Overseas Investment Commission mandate and power to approve foreign investment was removed and direct interventions occured to block specific investments 10. The minimum wage was significantly increased 11. (pending) re-regulation of telecommunications and electricity and other network industries These changes have lead more New Zealanders to migrate to fairer shores, myself included. Foreign investors have been scared away and more New Zealanders moved their capital, if not their labour, to more rewarded places. The exchange rate has dropped from about US50c to about US40c. House prices have fallen. GDP growth has basically ceased, with Q1 2001 being just 0.8% greater than Q1 2001 according to Statistics released today by Statistics NZ. While inflation has eroded real wages enabling the unemployment rate to fall, long term unemployment and welfare dependency has grown sharply. In 1996 NZ was a brightly growing blip on the radar screens of foreign investors, with an impressive record of deregulation, privatisation, taxcutting, expenditure restraint, trade liberalisation, public sector rationalisation, which had transformed the country from a bakward interventionist indebted welfare state to the world's fourth most free market economy after Hong Kong, Singapore and Bahrain. The sustainable growth rate was reckoned at 4% and ther was ample net immigration and foreign investment. The cost of losing reform momemtum and of uncertianty of the economic policy direction and philosophy could not be more stark. Thje sustainable economic growth rate of NZ is now officially about 2.5%, while other commentators put it even lower. There is now no doubt that NZ will fall further behind average income levels of Australia, USA, UK, Canada and Ireland wile maintaining this approach. Who knows how much damage will be done before a new National-ACT government is elected in 2002? Will the government soon be running deficits as tax revenue, despite tax increases, continues to disappoint and pressure to increase spending increases? Will banks be regulated next? Will a recession ensue? will unemployment rise? Don't expect any good news in the next couple of years. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: major buyers?
- Original Message - From: Bob [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 12:29 PM Subject: [e-gold-list] major buyers? From: http://chat.goldmoney.com/June01.pdf Page 9 According to GATA, three major buyers of gold have just recently emerged. They are, George Soros, the Chinese government and a middle-eastern government. Indeed according to rumors from a Russian economic conference, it seems as though the Chinese may be taking a hard stand against the U.S. by swapping some of its enormous surplus of dollars for gold in an effort to move toward a golden Yuan, which they hope to use to replace the dollar as a reserve currency, at least in Asia. Politically this is said to be very popular with Asian governments that remain extremely angry about how the U.S. abused them during the 1998 Asian crisis. I find the suggestion of a 'golden Yuan' to be frankly incredible. The PRC banking system and its financial system is anything but sound. Banking is nationalised and make huge loss making loans to state owned enterprises. Financial markets are rigged. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Aussie bank fees
Australia reportedly has the second highest bank fees in the world, with customers paying an average of $360 a year in bank fees. The Cruikshank Report, carried out for the British Parliament, found that British consumers pay just $30 a year, and US bank customers pay $150 a year, while fees in countries like France and Germany are also far below Australia, The Sunday Telegraph reported. The British report also said Australia has the world's highest charges for using the Automatic Teller Machines (ATMs). The Telegraph said Australia's record bank fees and charges were accompanied by record profits. Fair Trading Minister John Watkins told the paper the high Australian charges showed banks were treating customers like milk cows. Describing the situation as bank robbery, the minister said the findings warranted a commission of inquiry into banking competition. Meanwhile, the paper quoted federal Financial Services Minister Joe Hockey as saying customers can significantly reduce fees and charges by better using services. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: My Vistit to the Perth Mint
I paid GST on a damn natural gold NUGGET! But not on a kangaroo bullion coin. Krugerrands, yes, maples, no. Only pure materials you pay no GST on, seems to be the idea. So, at a butchers: steaks: no GST Sausages: GST !! Wierd isn't it? The Australian version of GST is strange, for food. basic food is exempt, while other food incurs GST. So if you buy a cooked chicken you pay no GST, if you buy half a cooked chicken, or two halves, you pay GST. Edible underwear attract GST. We are still waiting to hear if a tree falls over in a forest and no one hears it, whether it attracts GST. So don't cut your coins in half, just in case. David --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Two stats charts
- Original Message - From: Viking Coder [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 6:54 PM Subject: [e-gold-list] Two stats charts I've included 2 stats charts. http://sothor.pair.com/treetop/6_13stats.gif http://sothor.pair.com/treetop/6_13velocity.gif e-gold is currently experiencing a major surge in spends without a corresponding surge in accounts accessed or an unusual surge in velocity. Viking Coder Isn't velocity the number of times a unit of currency is used per unit of time? M*V=Y*P where V is the velocity of money, M is the money stock, Y is nominal output or transactions. V thus equals Y*P/M. A rise in gross transactions while the number of spends is contant implies an increase in the average spend. Y may be defined as n*y where n is the number of transactions and y is the average transaction size (i.e. Y=y*n). If Y is increasing and n is constant, y must be increasing proportionately. What would really help is a breakdown of daily spends by value, especially the value spent in transaction worth less than US$50 and the number os spends greater than US$50 worth to calculate transaction fee revenue. I suppose that most consumer internet transactions are worth less the US$50 worth, and that most commercial transactions would be greater than US$50 worth. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] what has happened to digigold?
does anyone know the latest about digigold? I have just downloaded and set up webfunds and attempted to buy some digigold for it from omnipay, but it hasn't arrived. I heard digigold and systemics had a dispute and systemics was no longer providing issuance server services but can find nothing about this matter currently on digigold, webfunds or systemics websites. Anyone know what is going on? David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] crypto -bullion -- authentication via crypto
This post is hard to title. It relates to: 1. the claimed 'asset' status of goldmoney 2. what it really means to own and hold gold as an asset and 3. how crytography might enable a gold currency to be a true asset currency Goldmoney claims to be 'unique' in that holdings of goldgrams are title to the actual gold in the holding, rather than a currency backed by a holding. This is simply not the case, as the owner of 1 gg simply cannot take his holding out and effect his claimed ownership of it -- bullion backing goldmoney is in bullion of much greater masses. Even if you had enough goldgrams to remove bullion from allocated storage, your holding is not a specified/allocated piece of bullion, but an interest in allocated storage of of all goldmoney holdings at the repository. Further still, the direct holding of a piece of bullion at a repository is not true ownership, as you lack actual and rely on the security and reputation of the repository. The only true asset currency in respect to gold is the physical possession of bullion, which is physically passed from payer to payee to act as means of payment and medium of exchange, money. In deciding whether or not to accept bullion as payment, the payee will seek warrant for believing that the bullion contains the gold it is claimed to contain. This usually will involve agents who assess the bullion and provide opinion of its gold content. This is where cryptography could provide a means of demonstrating the authenticity of the opinion -- showing that the named agent does in fact give a particular opinion about a particular piece of bullion. Bullion could be assessed and then packed/encased, together with a micro-computer, into a tamper evident packaging, in a convinient size, shape and appearence for use in commerce (an alternative to tamper evident packaging would be that seperation of bullion from micro-computer (or attempt to re-attach the micro-computer to another piece of bullion) would destroy the micro-computer). The micro-computer would have the capacity to respond to a crypto challenge and response protocol through the tamper evident packaging (or some other method of cryptography). Thus the payee can be sure the stated opinion is not a forgery. The design would also require that the costs of removing the micro-computer and repackaging with a fake bullion would exceed the value of the bullion. If this design condition was met, the payee could also be sure that the opinion referred to the bullion it is enclosed/encased with. Perhaps the a method of production would be to mint coins with a cavity on one face, into which the micro-computer fitted, and the coin would be encased in plastic, making seperation either destructive of the micro-computer or at least very difficult and substantially more expensive than the value of the coin. The micro-computer could be solar powered (plastic encasing would be transparent) and use 3G wireless technology to communicate with conventional computing/communication devices. Induction could also be used to power the micro-computer. Plastic encasing would make the coins water-proof. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: crypto -bullion -- authentication via crypto
- Original Message - From: C. Cormier - Ormetal Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 12:14 AM Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: crypto -bullion -- authentication via crypto On 29 May 2001, at 23:28, David Hillary wrote: Goldmoney claims to be 'unique' in that holdings of goldgrams are title to the actual gold in the holding, rather than a currency backed by a holding. This is simply not the case, as the owner of 1 gg simply cannot take his holding out and effect his claimed ownership of it -- bullion backing goldmoney is in bullion of much greater masses. When you own a US treasury bond with a face value eof $100,000, can you go to the bank and claim $10. You still own the $10. Is this really true? don't you have to sell bonds on the market to turn them into cash? or wait till they mature? The goldgram you own is a title to one gram of gold and, although it may not be redeem as a physical gram, it can be convert to any national currencies at the specific value of one gram of gold. 1 gg is, to its holder, the right to an interest in gold bullion held, but on goldmoney and the repository, its a potential liability, and therefore the reputation and governance and security practices are a part security against this debt. This heaves the holder reliant on other parties to obtain and dispose of his gold, a social/economic relationship exists with respect to the holding of gold, which could compromise its security. Goldmoney provides a substitute for the actual possession and ownership of gold (however good that substitute might be its seill a substitute). Even if you had enough goldgrams to remove bullion from allocated storage, your holding is not a specified/allocated piece of bullion, but an interest in allocated storage of of all goldmoney holdings at the repository. True, but if your interest match at least the size of a physical bar, you can retreive that physical bar. In other owrds you own a piece of bullion, no matter which piece. The result is the same. This is a substitute for ownership of a specific piece held in allocated storage, however good that substitute might be. Further still, the direct holding of a piece of bullion at a repository is not true ownership, as you lack actual and rely on the security and reputation of the repository. This is true... but who keep gold under its mattress nowadays... You are better off with unencumbered gold held in a reputable vault than holding in anywhere else. regardless of the extent to which you or I might thing physical possession of gold is irrational or needless, a demand exists for this type of asset. To a certian extent, technology reducing the costs of such portfolio allocations subjects goldmoney and the like to competition. Demand for such holdings could arise from widespread disorder, expectation of government seizure of gold held at repositories or other reasons. The only true asset currency in respect to gold is the physical possession of bullion, which is physically passed from payer to payee to act as means of payment and medium of exchange, money. This was in the old days before computers. Claude Claude new technology is not good just because it is new, it must provide more efficient or less costly means of production/exchange. new technology can also make 'old economy' industries more efficient. David Hillary http://www.goldcurrencies.ca http://www.ormetal.com == Claude Cormier Public Key http://www.ormetal.com/PGPkey.html == --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: The Free Market Not Mentioned
- Original Message - From: Bob [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 5:27 AM Subject: [e-gold-list] The Free Market Not Mentioned That's strange. Milton Friedman says we don't need a central bank. Mentions a computer to take it's place while admitting it wouldn't always be able to do the job, but nevers says a free market for money could do the job, according to Deroy Murdock. And this guy is known as a free marketeer? Follow his money trail for the answer. Look for tax payers money that he gets or has got somehow. The Friedmans, up close -- by Deroy Murdock An interview with Rose and Milton Friedman. (05/11/01) http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock051101.shtml Bob Its hard to believe that, Friedman, and his monetary theory, are still kicking around. I would have thought he would have figured out his policy was unworkable and irrational, and adopted inflation targeting or something like it. Targeting the rate of growth of the monetary base a strange idea because the monetary base has a near perfect substitute -- bank money. The ratio of bank money to monetary base can vary greatly as does velocity. Currency pegged to the value of gold, and free banking, provide for an entirely unfettered financial system and a perfectly elastic money supply. The money supply is perfectly elastic at the price of gold, and the price of gold should be reasonably stable in terms of global goods and services, based on the reletively stable economics of gold production and industrial gold demand. The current vouge of hard currency pegs and currency union implies that policy makers are happy to force their economies to adjust via reletive inflation and deflation. My reading of various monetary theories gives me that idea that this method of adjustment tends to be viewed as the most expensive and painful, with most monetary theory focusing on macro-economic management. By contrast monetary union or pegging is, from a national perspective, a laissez faire policy. So if so many policy makers seem so comfortable with having no control over their interest rates and exchange rates, and forcing their economies into inflation and deflation, why not peg the currency to gold and go for free banking? David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Banks, Guns, and Feudal Lords
- Original Message - From: Viking Coder [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 1:35 PM Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: Banks, Guns, and Feudal Lords I predict by 2020 fiat money will be an amusing anachronism. Remember JPM's last stats contest? http://www.mail-archive.com/e-gold-list@talk.e-gold.com/msg03208.html If e-gold continues to grow at the phenomenal rate it has had for the past 2 years, e-gold's usage will match that of the Swiss France in 2 years (May 2003). This same growth rate will have e-gold's usage match that of the US Dollar in early 2005. Viking Coder This is a very good reason to suspect that the rates of growth of the last two years should not be projected forward for the next 5 or 20. e-gold will face stiff competition from USD denominated private currencies offering instant clearing payments, privacy and non-reversable payments. Ditto for the euro. The move seems clear: domestic sourced income can be taxed at source, domestic consumption can be taxed at point of sale/value adding or import, but the spending of money and holding of financial assets will offer greater and greater privacy, as individuals transfer funds easily and cheaply from non-private employment/wage earnings and bank accounts to private financial systems. Thus all financial capital will be the same, foreign and domestic, because domestic capital can be turned into foreign capital look-alike capital, and then spent without a trace. Foreign sourced income will become untaxed reasonably soon in most countries, and thus governments will raise revenue from: 1. taxation of wage income at source (or on payrolls) in the formal economy 2. taxation of company/business income derived from the economy 3. taxation of sales of goods and services (i.e. GST and VAT and sales taxes) These taxes will not be able to cover or collect all income earned or all spending, but it is difficult to hide any thing but small business and casual labour. Thus governments may in fact provide exemption of casual transactions and the revenues of very small businesses. The inefficiencies of these exemptions could be minimised by the use of GST, because the vast bulk of output goes through the formal economy. e.g. suppose there was a GST of 10% which applies to businesses with turnover of $200 000 or more per year, and to importers importing over $200 000 p.a. This means individuals directly importing goods (e.g. internet purchases) will be exempt, but the lost revenue involved will be small because this will never be even a moderate proportin of consumption. It means small time traders will be exempt, but again this would only exempt a small fraction of consumption. Many very small businesses and contractors, provide the bulk of their services to larger businesses in the formal economy. So while they will not charge GST, their customers cannot claim any back from them. Thus because most goods/services go through businesses turning over difficult to hide sums, exemptions on low turnover businesses costs little revenue, while freeing small businesses and individuals from both disclosure and compliance costs. By comparison income taxation is more difficult to to intnroduce disclosure exemptions without causing larger losses of revenue and distortions to the structure of production and consumption (i.e. production by smaller businesses to avoid taxation). Income taxation is also venerable to transfer pricing and other means of minimising/avoiding/evading, and requires depreciation calculations and can be livied at different rates on different sources of income. I therefore predict that income taxation will be cut right back, in particular, foreign sourced income will not be taxed at all, income taxation systems will be flatter, deductables will only be available via refunds from the tax office (perhaps on a monthly basis), corporate taxation will be low and flat. The typical OECD country in 2020 might impost a 10% GST with a substantial reporting exemption for low turnover businesses (e.g. 3-5 times the average wage), a 10% corporate income tax and a 10% personal income tax, with a deductable of about half the average wage. Wage and interest income would be taxed at a uniform 10% regardless of source and the tax office would estimate each month the income and refund the appropriate amount. This type of system might raise about 15% of GDP, with land tax raising another 3% of GDP for local government and moderate taxes on tobacco and alcohol raising another 1% or so. Total government spending would be a shade under 20% of GDP. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Banks, Guns, and Feudal Lords
- Original Message - From: Viking Coder [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 2:21 PM Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: Banks, Guns, and Feudal Lords My pessimism in estimate is basically allowing for thieving-bastard laws trying to ban or tax or hyper-regulate e-gold, plus the rather broad cultural gap between popular online and popular offline. That is unless e-gold can bridge that gap early and grow fast enough to do an end-run around the legislatures. They'll know they're safe at last when it reaches the point where giving them grief would trigger an instant no-confidence recession. The credit card companies have one thing over e-gold that will make it hard to break into the popular offline group; namely, credit. You can use your credit card without having the money on hand; can't do that with e-gold. Though that would be a strange turn of events... if the credit card companies noticed/accepted e-gold and adapted their systems to work with e-gold. It would only be a little different than the fractional reserve currencies (such as digigold, and standard reserve's future offering). To get the popular offline group will mean recruiting the merchants before recruiting the consumers. Is anybody working on a POS (point of service) terminal to allow (somewhat) offline e-gold transactions to occur? This could be as simple as hooking a PDA up to a wireless modem, or a PCS cell phone. Viking Coder The way to make e-gold to offer credit is to provide more than currency, i.e. brokerage accounts. Thus individuals would hold shares and other financial assets, and some proportion of what is held could be lent, e.g. 40%. This could be used as personal credit or for purchases. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Public Announcement regarding OSGold links
E-gold's silly move will only hasten their demise as the dominant gold economy site, directory site and gold currency. Surely it does nothing good for building good-will with market makers, whose obvious economies of scope demand they service multiple currencies. Market makers will look after themselves and their customers. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Public Announcement regarding OSGold links
- Original Message - From: Tristan Petersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 11, 2001 12:01 PM Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: Public Announcement regarding OSGold links E-gold's silly move will only hasten their demise as the dominant gold economy site, directory site and gold currency. Surely it does nothing good for building good-will with market makers, whose obvious economies of scope demand they service multiple currencies. Market makers will look after themselves and their customers. David Hillary Could you elaborate on what exactly E-gold's silly move means? Since it's so obvious to you, I'd like to hear it. Because plainly, and I am sure I'm not alone here, I'm just not getting it. Is not e-gold a private company, formed by the action of individuals who voluntarily associated to provide us (customers, no doubt!) with a means to live a bit more free in our lives? Do not us customers voluntarily associate with e-gold? If that is not the case, then simply withdraw all your gold, and go cry to the governm--er enslavers you love so much. Oh, and while you're at it you might as well not pay your taxes. Then, a year (or much less-it's the IRS after all!) later, see who comes after you with the guns and coercion. See who leaves you alone and who doesn't. The very simple fact of the matter is that e-gold is a private company. Do not tell them what to do. They don't tell you what to do with your life. Not listing a MM on THEIR website is their damn right; love it or leave it, but don't try to force someone else to your opinion. That is the nature of government; you disagree with me, therefore you are wrong! Huh? Opinions aren't wrong. Trying to force others as a result of your opinions is. You can't be free if you don't want freedom for others. Tristan Tristan you are jumping to conclusions here. I refered to 'e-gold's silly move' by which I mean their attempt to reduce their customer's access to market makers (who they do not endorse anyway) who exchange currencies for OSGold as well as e-gold. By calling it 'silly' I am not claiming what they have done is illegal, fraudulent or that the government should punish them, or anyone, rather that it is against their own interest, in particular it will speed up the erosion of e-gold's market power in the gold economy. The reason I see the economics/strategy of the matter in this way is as follows: 1. market makers have economies of scope regarding exchange services for electronic gold currencies, and in fact any 'hard' electronic money, thus find it profitable to offer exchange services for many different electronic currencies. 2. customers give little weight to the fact that a market maker provides an exchange service for a particular currency when assessing the soundness of the currency. The reputation of the market maker is to do with reliability and speed and cost of funding, not the soundness of currencies funded. 3. the delisting of market makers who provide exchanges services for OSGold from the e-gold list is an exercise of market power of a) the e-gold list and b) the e-gold currency. While holders of market power, in my view, have the right to exercise their market power (I'm not a fan of anti-trust law or monopoly regulation), I don't think this exersize was strategically optimal for e-gold, for reasons outlined below. 4. The market response to this move will be to a) erode the market power of the e-gold list as a directory and b) in turn erode the market power of e-gold as the currency with the largest network of market makers. This is effected partly by undermining market maker goodwill towards e-gold, partly by strengthening efforts for market maker association, hence the development of alternative directories with their own market power greater than the e-gold page list. The non- e-gold aligned association of market makers and list of market makers will become the new hub of the gold economy, putting e-gold and other currencies in critical evaluation for customers and providing the best source of information about market makers. 5. the e-gold action will ultimately backfire because the economies of scale in the market maker industry are large and the market power of e-gold is already eroding fast and is now insufficiently strong to take this action profitably. By the way I don't trust OSGold myself (well not yet anyway) and perfer to use e-gold and SR and metalsavings (haven't checked them out recently but if they are still going fine I'll use them more in the future). But my list of gold currencies seems to get longer all the time. There are: e-gold, SR gold, GoldMoney, 3PGold, digigold, OSGold, ecoin EGLD, and a few more. The development of the market maker industry, electronic currency banks, value added services also hastens the demise of the e-gold market power. The way financial cryptography is going it won't be long before you can use shares in company
[e-gold-list] Re: www.hushmail.com taking e-gold now.
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 11:47 AM Subject: [e-gold-list] www.hushmail.com taking e-gold now. Salutations! http://www.hushmail.com is taking e-gold now. don http://www.world.std.com/~dr they have been taking it for more than a month David Hillary Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:43:51 + (GMT+00:00) Subject: Re: e-gold From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you for your email. You are able to pay by e-gold. Hushs' account number is 272818. Please do not hesitate to contact me should you require any furhter information Kind Regards Team Hush --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Fractional Reserve Banking
e state's sole means of directing and allocating resources in the economy. The damages awarded directly influence behaviour including the incentives for litigation, the incentives to avoid infringement (being sued) and the incentives to avoid damages which cannot be recovered by litigation. Everyone believes theft/fraud should be illegal, the differences arise mainly relating to the means of redress. Libertarians do not favour the state attempting to take up court cases on behalf of victims, because this leads to victimless crimes being procescuted and to an inefficient allocation of resources (by distorting the incentives for private litigation, infringement avoidance and non-recoverable damage avoidance). The victims of franctional banking are not litigating because they don't exist or they have simply had an ecocomic loss because of a competitor offering a substitute, rather than by the initiation of force/fraud. Its not the state's job to crack down on crime or provide security. Its the state's job to allow individuals to provide for their own security and to provide a legal avenue of redress which does not remove other people's right to their life, liberty and property without due process of law. If you don't really understand these things I am not surprised. Crime is the most misunderstood social problem that exists. It is not only widely misunderstood, it is misunderstood by people who otherwise understand many economic and social issues. Unfortunetely the same thing can be said of fractional reserve banking. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Internet Ethics?
es substantial rewards for trustworthyness. A good reputation is on par with actual skil and talent in the labour market. There are a substantial number of highlt skilled and talented individuals who miss out on using them because they fail to demonstrate their trustworthyness and good reputation. Ambitions for personal advancement is ambition for the building of personal reputation. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Fractional Reserve Banking
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: "What you say is true (altho it would violate the terms of governance of the e-gold system) but it is beside the point of what I understood to be the original topic. Namely, the assertion that the use by a 3rd party, such as SR, of e-gold to back another currency, such as AUG, would introduce risk to e-gold itself." That was not the point of my original post , actually. The point was, fractional reserve banking in gold will do one or both of the following: 1. It will increase the supply of "gold" on paper - thus contributing to gold's loss of value against other goods and services, hurting all holders of gold, even if only infitesimally. The widespread adoption of this practice will most certainly keep the price of gold down just as gold derivatives on paper are assisting to keep the price down today. To put it in the simplest terms - fractional reserve banking and/or derivatives will cause the total amount of gold in everyone's books to greatly exceed the actual amount of gold in the world. The growth of this paper gold supply steals value from the holders of gold by passing something as gold that really isn't. its not theft to provide a liquidity service. fractional reserve banking provides liquidity and is a free market credit configuration. Although it is possible that depositors will have a delay in redeeming their deposits or suffer a capital loss on their deposits, they are compensated for these risks by the payment of interest and the provision of liquidity. Fractional reserve banking economiese on the moneyary base and slightly reduces its value, but this loss of value is analgous to any commodity where users economise on its use, i.e. any commodity whatsoever. Economising on gold for monetary use is no different from any other cost-minimisation and transaction cost minimsation market process. Fractional reserve deposits for gold are gold substitutes, denominated in gold and redeemable for gold, and can act as money, transfering value from payer to payee. 2. It will cause the particular currency that is being issued to devalue against 100% backed currencies. While the growth of the "ether-gold" supply will hurt the currency of the fractional-reserve institution the most, it will also hurt ALL holders of real gold by "adding dross" to dilute the pure metal. It is a subtle form of theft. It breaks the command "thou shalt not steal" which is fundamental to the success of a free-market economy. The value of gold deniminated demand deposits is pegged to the value of gold by the deposit taking institution and cannot differ much from its peg. It is not theft to offer a valued service (liquidity and interest together) to the market, to those who wish to freely avail themselves of the service. It is not theft for suppliers to create substitutes for goods and for consumers to buy them, even though it harms the produces of the original good. Competition reduces profits but this is not theft. The price of gold is determined by supply and demand, not fixed by God or the state or anything else. The market should be free to economise on its use of gold and to create gold substitutes, whether for industrial or monetary purposes. I would also like to reiterate that there is nothing wrong with lending or creating debt-based instruments, as long as it is done in such a way that only one person actually owns the gold at a given instant in time. In other words, when I lend 1000 grams at interest to the bank, Metalsavings, or whatever, I should not have a demand account that says I have 1000 grams of gold. In order to lend at interest without creating a fractional reserve system, there has to be a time contract associated with the loan. I give up the money to the borrower for x period of time to be paid pack at y% interest. Lenders have a clear choice about lending their funds: 1. lend to banks in the form of interest bearing demand deposits or 2. lend to companies in the form of buying securitised debt (bonds) Typically 1. offers a lower rate of interest because the additional liquidity of the asset has an economic value, as does the reduced risk that comes from pooling of debt risks. 2. typically offers a higher rate of interest because lenders must be compensated for reduced liquidity and less pooling of risk. This proves that liquidity has a market value and is a good people are willing to pay for, and that fractional reserve banks provide this good. I agree that the GoldMoney clause is rather vague. If GoldGrams are money and I want to borrow $1000 from a bank using my 100 grams of GoldMoney as collateral, why shouldn't I? It would be interesting to find out GoldMoney's intent behind the clause. HK Kid David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Australian Banks
still one of the easiest ways (with CCs) to pay for things through the mail, eliminates the risk of carrying cash etc. Bank fees on cheques etc. discourage business. snail mail? paper cheques? what for? If you have a job you can get a credit card (just tender some pay slips as proof of income, show 2 forms of ID and fill in some forms) and you have a means of payment through the mail or over the phone for merchants not accepting e-gold. You get a line of personal credit if you fell the need to use it and it costs you nothing in the first year for most of them. You can access your credit card with your internet banking and make cash advances to your card or pay off balances etc. Its quite cost effective for purchases, while being more versitile than cheques for many transactions (for the consumer, that is). And before you mention fraud and other problems with credit cards, these are a problem for the merchant and hardly for the card holder. 12. Lots of ATMs (I walk past 4 ATMs between my house and the train station two blocks away (HSBC, Commonwealth, ANZ and Westpac)). In fact they are everywhere, in convinience stores, pubs, shopping malls and every bank has an ATM. Great. Just as well, becauce in many areas you would be hard pressed to find a branch with a queue less than the door. 13. You can easily set up automatic payments, direct debit authorities and with BPAY you can schedule bill payments on the due date, or in fact any date you wish. Wonderful, but hardly unique to Australia. Other countries have all these things, but without the crooked, inefficient banks we have here. There are few, if any, places where fees are lower or services are better than Australia. I believe the US banking system is considerably worse. Rubbish. Do you realise the banks here illegally collude to fix their rates? That means there's no real competition. Just the other month the Australian COmpetition and Consumer Authority was pillorying them in the press for illegally fixing high credit card rates. It's a big scam. Australian banks are, like most of the government, just organised crim's respectable branch. Yes the banks could be more competitive and some fees and prices are inefficiently high. There will be further changes in the next 5 years, fees for personal services in the banking system will increase significantly while fees for other services will fall significantly. I look forward to the first changes because it indicates efficient pricing of services and rising productivity elsewhere in the economy and to the second because it is productivity growth in the banking sector itself. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Australians
Ben Legume wrote: And how come there are so many people from Australia into egold??! :) You've obviously never tried to open/operate an Australian bank account. As well as needing roughly the same ID requirements to get a passport, the incompetent, rude staff have to be seen to be believed, and most banks have closed thousands of their branches over the last 10 years to save money. I started using E-gold after I found it was easier, cheaper and quicker to send cheques and money orders from the US back to the US, to buy E-gold, than to have to que for half an hour, then negotiate with the staff who would as often as not refuse to let me bank cheques from overseas if they were made out to my business, as I "may have found them in the street". Not to mention that most (if not all) the banks here take 28 days to clear all overseas instruments OF ANY TYPE! This means money orders, postal orders, even bank cheques, cashier's cheques and bank draughts have to be held a month before they clear. Makes it difficult to sell things to customers OS when they find out they have to wait a month for the payment to clear. Australia has one of the world's best banking systems: 1. Internet banking is cheap, widely used and useful (Westpac charges me 25c per BPAY or direct transfer, transfers between Westpac customers clear instantly and to other banks within a banking day, can download records to financial software on PC) 2. Telephone banking is cheap, widely used and useful (enables BPAY bill payments and account balances and request statements etc. Westpac has a 1800 number for this service) 3. 24 hour 7 day customer service on the telephone (Westpac again) 4. Cash Management Trust (CMT) accounts are available without any fees or charges whatsoever and pay monthly interest at near wholesale rates, funds are accessible (BPAY in and direct credit out or direct debit authority with your broker). 5. EFTPOS is reasonably widely available and used and reasonably cheap (about 65c) and most retailers offer cash out with purchases. 6. Government does not influence the allocation of credit in the economy, own any commercial banks or bear bank risk or insure deposits. 7. International Transfers can clear within a short time (my mother sent me a few hundred bucks from NZ early this year and they arrived clear and available within a few days). 8. Banks and financial institutions are free to offer all types of financial services including insurance, superannuation, brokerage services, credit cards etc. You can trade online with Westpac and other banks. 9. Taxes and government charges on financial transactions are low and are being eliminated as part of the New Tax System. 10. Account keeping fees are moderate on most types of transaction accounts ($10 a month gives me 25 free transactions per month with my Westpac account). 11. Did I mention that you can get chequing accounts with banks? I don't have one because such antiquated instruments are not necessary or expedient to use, and certinally very inexpedient to receive. I have not received a pay cheque for years and I have had about 15 jobs in the last couple of years. 12. Lots of ATMs (I walk past 4 ATMs between my house and the train station two blocks away (HSBC, Commonwealth, ANZ and Westpac)). In fact they are everywhere, in convinience stores, pubs, shopping malls and every bank has an ATM. 13. You can easily set up automatic payments, direct debit authorities and with BPAY you can schedule bill payments on the due date, or in fact any date you wish. There are few, if any, places where fees are lower or services are better than Australia. I believe the US banking system is considerably worse. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Frac reserve
SnowDog wrote: VC writes: "I don't understand why it's a bad thing to allow a 100% backed currency to be used as the basis for a fractional reserve banking system." It's pretty simple, it causes inflation. [...] Is it true, though, that GoldMoney will not ALLOW a third party to use goldgrams as the basis for a fractional reserve gold bank? Craig I think that GoldMoney and e-gold do not allow the use of their gold as a fractional reserve but they do allow their currency to be so used. The *currency* is donominated in gold, and backed by it, but it is not gold, it is a balance in an account, with a legal claim, together with other account holder, for their share of the gold held in reserve. You can lend currency and take deposits and make payments, do virtually anything with currency, just don't try and say 'this 400oz bar in toronto is mine, I have 400oz of e-gold, so if i don't pay you what i owe you you can go down to the vault and claim it.' David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Frac reserve
e currency in the face of large redemption orders or a surge of redemption orders. Issuers also maintain Owners' Equity to ensure that any losses on lending/investment activities do not make the issuer unable to meet all currency liabilities. Furthermore, most currency boards and monetary institutions designed primarily for use as transactional media rather than interest paying investment services maintain an Investment Policy limiting investment activities to reletively short runnning debt securities of reletively high credit rated debtors, to ensure that liquidity is maintained and risk is managed prudently. These monetary institutions, thus provide investment capital to industry and borrowers, which has a productive return, rather than storing all value as unproductive physical inventories which in fact misallocate the economic use of the physical monetary base towards its monetary use and away from its non-monetary use. Digigold provides three economic advantages over e-gold. It provides a lower cost transactional media as there is no storage fee or transaction fees, it provides various value added features (greater privacy, email between users), and it provides financial capital to markets in which it invests its Secondary Earning Reserve. The market can determine if digigold's advantages offset its operational costs and it if is providing the best use of the technology (sub-optimal use of available technology resources will likely lead to a contestor getting the market). Fractional reserve banking and currency institutions do reduce the value of the physical monetary base by reducing the monetary demand for it (the currencies/balances they issue are economic substitutes). This is the same as any technology or business practice which economises on inputs. Holding physical metal in vaults is a transaction cost and should be minimised. Financial assets can be created which have value pegged to the physical monetary base by the issuer and these serve as a transactional media, means of exchange, money, whose unit of account is identical to the physical monetary base. Its not counting things twice its creating money, means of exchange, to serve as a store of value and means of payment just like the physical monetary base, but at a lower social and user cost. The value of digigold is pegged to e-gold, because it is issued for and redeemed in e-gold on demand. The supply of digigold is elastic, nearly perfectly so, the supply curve is horozontal. If digigold was worth only a third of the value of e-gold, currency holders would redeem their digigold for e-gold at face value and get it and make a 200% profit. Money is created by the market and has as many forms as the market finds a use for. The ability to spend or redeem is the defining feature of true money, and so term deposits which cannot be withdrawn before their term is up are not money. The service of providing for deposits to be redeemed on demand is called liquidity. Banks and financial institutions and currency institutions provide this service because it has a market value. The means of production of this service is to maintain a portfolio of debt and other investments which does not have (as much) liquidity along with *reserves* which are the liquid assets, used to redeem deposits. The financial institution has to choose its prudential policies so that it can maintain the liquidity service for its customers. This basically means it has to manage the split between reserves and lending and maintain adequate owners' equity so that the ability of the bank to provide liquidity is maintained. Financial Institutions make money from the margin between the interest rate it charges on lending and the rate it pays on deposits. The margin for the bank has to be big enough to cover for the fact that the quantity of lending is less than the quantity of deposits (but more than reserves normally). E.g. suppose a bank has 100 million AUG deposits and has 80 million AUG in lending and has 25 million AUG in reserves, charges 10% on its lending, writes off 2 million AUG in bad debts, pays 4% on its deposits, makes a profit of 2 million AUG on Owners' Equity of 5 million AUG. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Spreads, fees etc
try http://www.metal-escrow.com/ as they do it for half the cost of the others in oz, but I haven't yet tried them. David Hillary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, sounds like I need to do some more shopping around. I went to Ozziegold, and they charge 8.5% I think, if you deposit cash straight into their bank account, so obviously that's a bit rich. I certainly don't have a problem with people recovering credit card fees etc, and taking a reasonable margin. I just thought that the rates I had seen were too high to make it economic. As far as Australians being into it, I can think of three reasons none of them to be taken seriously! First, most of the web is priced in $US, and our banks really slug us for overseas credit card transations. Secondly, have you seen the Aussie dollar recently! Look downwards! Third, there are a lot of goldbugs over here, with a long national history of chasing the metal! Can you recommend any market makers outside the US that I could investigate? Do people use e-gold as a way of storing value, or just to fund net transactions? Thanks, Brendan. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/04/01 10:41 To: "e-gold Discussion" [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:[e-gold-list] Re: Spreads, fees etc Can someone give me some thoughts on the best way of minimising the fees and spreads that seem to be everywhere. Not so much e-gold's transaction (50c) and holding (1%) charges, but the 4% I saw someone mention as a buy/sell spread, or the 8% that market makers charge to do the dollar-to-e-gold exchange. Brendan, those unattractive rates are only if you are funding your account using say a credit card. And, it is very reasonable that the folks who accept credit cards have to charge such a rate! (Due to fraud, delays, fees etc associated with credit cards.) If you are purchasing a few thousand bucks of egold, and you are willing to pay by wire, you can get a super rate (maybe 2 or 3 percent) Basically if you want to use a SOFT form of money (Jeff Fitzmyers: http://home.earthlink.net/~fitz22/may.html ) to buy gold, you'll pay more, use a HARDER form, pay less. Also if you're in a huge RUSH, you'll pay more, if you can wait a few days for eg your bank check to clear, you'll pay less. And how come there are so many people from Australia into egold??! :) I like the idea of using e-gold to 'hold' phyical gold, but an 8% hit on the way in makes that pretty uneconomic, doesn't it. The other aspect I would like to explore is using e-gold as an anonymous/secret store of value. Does anyone have any suggestions or thoughts on that? Thanks, Brendan. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** This message and any attachments are confidential and for the addressee only. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender. It may be subject to legal privilege or confidentiality obligations imposed by legislation. TAC email addresses are for business use only. All email sent to TAC may be inspected and used by TAC for any lawful purpose. TAC policy prohibiting transmission of inappropriate material to its email addresses is strictly enforced. ** --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Frac reserve
gold *can* meet its currency liabilities with its assets. The threats digigold's ability to meet its currency liabilities on demand are: 1. Digigold may not maintain an adequare primary liquidity reserve, and a surge or redemptions or a large redemption could deplete the primary liquidity reserve and some currency holder may face a DELAY in effecting their currency redemption. 2. Digigold may not maintain an adequate value of assets against its currency liabilities, thus some currency holders could face a LOSS OF VALUE when digigold goes bankrupt and creditors (currency holders) get less than 1000mg in the gram. 3. Digigold could lose money on its investments with the same results as 2. Digigold has three policies corresponding to threats 1., 2. and 3. They are: 1. maintain a target primary liquidity reserve of 25% of currency liabilities. Investments in the secondary earning reserve are sold and the proceeds deposited in the primary liquidity reserve if the primary liquidity reserve ratio falls below this value to restore it above this value. 2. maintain a target owner's equity of 8% of the secondary earning reserve. This means issuing shares to raise capital (or raising capital by some alternative means) as digigold grows and not paying out any dividends while the owners' equity is below the target amount. 3. maintain a prudent investment policy for the secondary earning reserve (i.e. invest in high quality debt securities of short duration, this provides for liquidity should the value be required quickly to replenish the primary liquidity reserve during a run of redemptions.) Also there is a limit on the proportion of lending to any individual debtor or related group of debtors. These policies, and accounting, auditing and structuring to assure currency holders of their implimentation, provide a basis for faith in the ability of digigold to maintain the value of its currency. The solution to this dilemna is to only lend gold that has been borrowed on a fixed-time contract. In other words, CD's don't cause this problem because the depositor does not have a "demand account" from which he can withdraw his gold at any time. If a CD is in bearer form it can serve as money. If it is not then a promisory note with the CD as collateral can serve as money. You can't get away from it. This is a poor money because its value is too sensitive to market conditions and is not divisable. But it can still act as money. Ultimately, fractional reserve banking is fraud, especially with gold, because if you add up all the deposits, they are far more than the actual gold in the vaults. You are adding up different things as if they were the same thing. The error is yours. franctional reserve banking is not fraud, depositors know, or should know, that most of their funds are lent out and that is how they can earn interest. David Hillary Banks and companies that practice it are selling "gold" that is reality "nothing". They use units of weight like grams, but they are not selling the customer a real gram of gold, they are selling ether-gold. They are not selling "gold" and they are not selling "nothing". They are selling contractual obligations. The "problem" lies in your own misunderstanding. If they do not misrepresent the terms of the contract and they fulfill those terms then it is not fraud. CCS --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: New Zealand e-gold converter
Karen Bailey wrote: Hi, I'm looking for a bit of help here. Can someone send me the contact info for a exchanger of e-gold to NZ$'s please? Or an alternative as I have seen some Kiwi's on the writing to the list. Thanks in advance, Karen Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] I still have a bank account in nz with NZ$15 in it so you can give me some e-gold if you want it (I can transfer it to any nz account with online banking). David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Yada yada yada
problems and thus lower cost. Will account based services and account based currencies be largely relegated to the background of electronic commerce? I find it difficult to conclude not. Ultimately its cheaper to pick fewer account providers and advisers to trust than to pick many, and the prospect of individuals holding multiple internet accounts for this and that and keeping track of them will prove ultimatly uneconomic. Accounts will be opened, funded, operated and closed by electronic wallets programed by personal finance software and/or the financial planning/advising/vault service of the individual. The technology of digital bearer certificates will enable virtually any account based service to be available in a digital bearer certificate in wallet form, as issuers can open accounts and issue certificates against balances. Thus in effect account services will be unable to do anything but issue balances and redeem them, transactions between balance holders will be supurflous or at least highly elastic with respect to transaction fees and account keeping fees charged. Account providers will therefore be focused on the issue and redemption of balances rather than transactions between account holders -- as will digital bearer certificate issuers. Digital bearer certificate issuers must pass on issuance and redemption fees. But the loss of customer loyalty and the reduction in the transaction costs of changing accounts and the increase in market power of the larger (digital bearer certificate issuer) customers reduces the extent to which inefficiently high bail-in and/or redemption fees can be charged. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Value of Aussie Dollar
What is an aussie dollar worth today? US50c? That is what has been in all the papers in the last few days, big news the Aussie battler has dipped below US50c. Well the Kiwi is also at US50c so the NZ and Aussie dollars should be worth the same amount. Kitco gives the Aussie dollar as being US49.48c. BT Finance Currency Converter (http://www.asia1.com.sg/cgi-bin/bt/fxconv.pl) gives the Aussie as being worth US58.9c. The National Bank (NZ) gives the Kiwi as A86c (but that is for the 6th March, no more recent data displayed), and as US50c at 16 March. Can anyone recommend a site that gives accurate, timely, user friendly display of exchange rates against each other? David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] RE: Standard Reserve Gold - question
Is not StandardGold backed by a primary liquidity reserve of e-gold, digigold or other electronic gold currency and by a secondary earning reserve of gold denominated investments with the split between the two reserves determined by issuer policy? I don't mind this arrangement provided that the total backing of the currency, Primary Liquidity Reserve plus Secondary Earning Reserve is adequate to redeem the currency (i.e. the value of the assets backing the currency exceed the value of the currency outstanding). The issuer should publish the following policies: 1. Capitalisation Policy -- Issuer policy stating a minimum target Owners' Equity, e.g. 8% of the Secondary Earnings Reserve (Owners' Equity=Primary Liquidity Reserve + Secondary Earning Reserve - Currency Outstanding) 2. Liquidity Policy -- Issuer policy stating a minimum target value of Primary Liquidity Reserve, e.g. 25% of Currency Outstanding. 3. Primary Reserve Composition Policy -- Issuer policy stating the allowable currencies for the Primary Liquidity Reserve (e.g. e-gold only). 4. Investment Policy -- Issuer policy stating the classes of assets that can be invested in the Secondary Earning Reserve, e.g. gold denominated securities up to 180 days maturity with credit rating of Aaa or better. In addition the Issuer should publish the actual composition of Reserves and the actual split between Reserves. The currencies could also be subject to credit rating by analysts so that independent opinion of the currency can be obtained. I have no problem with most currencies and money being backed by debt, but there needs to be better information than is currently the case on Standard Gold and Standard Dollars. I intend to open a SR instant anywhere account (with debit card) today but I would be more satisfied if issuer policy and disclosure was improved. David Hillary Elwyn Jenkins wrote: As already explained, we back each currency Standard Gold and Standard Dollars with a one-for-one backing. If this changes we will create additional products where customers choose whether they want an account that has a different ratio and therefore a potential for risk but at the same time potential for earning some 'interest'. 1 Standard Gold Gram = backing of 1 E-Gold Gram. ej ++ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 9:33 PM To: e-gold Discussion Subject: [e-gold-list] RE: Standard Reserve Gold - question So, what percentage is maintained in reserve to back the currency? (Or, do you not give out that information.) (Which would be perfectly reasonable .. banks don't!) The liability level is from our point of view as issuer. This is the level of customer digital accounts. The asset level is the value that is maintained on behalf of the customer by the Trustees. ej ++ --- "Intel is a photo printing company. Microsoft makes a text editor. All of Amazon or eBay can be programmed in one day using Perl and run on a $500 machine. The whole of 'IT' amounts to using spreadsheets and a few trivial linear databases. We are in the low-tech age." --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: emails
Michael Moore wrote: Its Illegal to forward e-mail in Australia [News Limited] Forwarding an e-mail to friends, family or colleagues without permission from the sender is illegal according to a new law passed in Australia on March 4, 2001. http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,1768268%255E421,00.html Kind regards, [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is a saying in Australia (and elsewhere) that "there ought to be a law ... [against it]" Well there ought to be a law against that sorta law! Australian politicians seem so ready to pass laws and blow the budget surplus in election year. Also seem so hesitant to undertake fundamental reforms of government processes and structures. Political markets are doomed to inefficiency and sovereignty must be commercialised in autonomous sovereign proprietary states. David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
