Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-17 Thread Knudsen, Patricia
William Shatner and State Farm have teamed up for a turkey fryer video.  It's 
more entertaining than the UL version.  :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYkRF_FmD40

Patty Knudsen
Teradata Corporation
PH: 858-485-3748
patricia.knud...@teradata.com

-Original Message-
From: dougp01 [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:13 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video.

http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/consumer/productsafety/turkeys/


  doug powell

-Original Message-
From: Pete Perkins
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:00 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

PSNet,

Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial deep-fat fryer.

What's the latest?

:>) br, Pete

Peter E Perkins, PE
Principal Product Safety Engineer
PO Box 23427
Tigard, ORe  97281-3427

503/452-1201 fone/fax
p.perk...@ieee.org


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Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-15 Thread McInturff, Gary
Yup, it's the theory of deep pockets but there still has to be "proximal cost" 
for them to drag anybody into the fray UL didn't design it, they didn't sell 
it, and they didn't tell anybody it was safe - only that it meets the standards 
for safety that exist at the time of review. I suppose it was a very strong 
implication though. 

I've been involved in exactly one case. A monitor in a bank caught fire, the 
insurance company came after us, and even after showing UL review, proper 
plastics (at least as far as the current state of product safety was concerned) 
and pointing out that the fire was caused by an employee who lit a candle near 
the monitor and forgot to blow it out before she left for the night and was the 
actual source of the fire our insurance company paid up. Cheaper to pay than to 
litigate I suppose. But neither then nor any time since then during product 
recalls or safety accidents, to the best of my knowledge, UL nor any other 3rd 
party evaluator was every made party to the lawsuit. (I remember a Listed 
Coffee pot that caught fire and Listed laptops with Li Batteries were bursting 
in flames and cause injuries for example) 


Not a lawyer by either trade nor inclination





-Original Message-
From: John Shinn [mailto:jmsh...@pacbell.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 12:43 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

Peter is correct.  The Lawyers will usually list everyone
remotely associated with the product, including the
retailer who sold it.

John Shinn

-Original Message- 
From: Peter Tarver
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 10:53 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

> From: ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com
[mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 08:51
>
> I don't think UL would be sued; the manufacturer is ultimately liable.
The is little or no
> benefit of 3rd party certification of a product under Tort law.

The precedence of tort law is to assign financial responsibility in
weighted proportion to the depth of pocket, regardless of actual
responsibility or lack thereof.

If UL (or any other NRTL) has a safety certification mark on a product
used with the offending fryer, even if not a part of the original
equipment, it can lead to naming them in a suit.


Regards,

Peter L. Tarver, PE

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Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-15 Thread John Shinn

Peter is correct.  The Lawyers will usually list everyone
remotely associated with the product, including the
retailer who sold it.

John Shinn

-Original Message- 
From: Peter Tarver

Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 10:53 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer


From: ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com

[mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com]

Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 08:51

I don't think UL would be sued; the manufacturer is ultimately liable.

The is little or no

benefit of 3rd party certification of a product under Tort law.


The precedence of tort law is to assign financial responsibility in
weighted proportion to the depth of pocket, regardless of actual
responsibility or lack thereof.

If UL (or any other NRTL) has a safety certification mark on a product
used with the offending fryer, even if not a part of the original
equipment, it can lead to naming them in a suit.


Regards,

Peter L. Tarver, PE

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Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-15 Thread Ralph . McDiarmid
In the end, the legal system in place in the USA (and to a great extent in 
Canada) is just a money grab game.  Little if anything to do with who's at 
fault.  There seems little justice left within the legal system we have 
carefully crafted for ourselves.

 


Ralph McDiarmid  |   Schneider Electric   |  Renewable Energies Business | 
  CANADA  |   Regulatory Compliance Engineering 




From:
Peter Tarver 
To:
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Date:
11/15/2011 10:55 AM
Subject:
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer



> From: ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com
[mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 08:51
>
> I don't think UL would be sued; the manufacturer is ultimately liable.
 The is little or no
> benefit of 3rd party certification of a product under Tort law.

The precedence of tort law is to assign financial responsibility in
weighted proportion to the depth of pocket, regardless of actual
responsibility or lack thereof.

If UL (or any other NRTL) has a safety certification mark on a product
used with the offending fryer, even if not a part of the original
equipment, it can lead to naming them in a suit.


Regards,

Peter L. Tarver, PE

This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and 
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Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-15 Thread Peter Tarver
> From: ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com
[mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 08:51
>
> I don't think UL would be sued; the manufacturer is ultimately liable.
 The is little or no
> benefit of 3rd party certification of a product under Tort law.

The precedence of tort law is to assign financial responsibility in
weighted proportion to the depth of pocket, regardless of actual
responsibility or lack thereof.

If UL (or any other NRTL) has a safety certification mark on a product
used with the offending fryer, even if not a part of the original
equipment, it can lead to naming them in a suit.


Regards,

Peter L. Tarver, PE

This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may 
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Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-15 Thread McInturff, Gary
Ralph, no real argument to the benefit except especially the safety folks won't 
even go into court as an expert witness on your behalf. But the benefit of the 
third party is more in how deep they get into your wallet. is the "reasonable 
manufacturer" doctrine in Tort law. It's just what it sounds like. Did you meet 
the minimums of what a reasonable manufacturer would do? E.g. Did you seek a  
second opinion about the safety or the product? If it is common in the industry 
to do so and you don't "bother" then you don't' meet the doctrine and the 
monetary damages are going to escalate dramatically because you've shown a 
disregard for you customers safety. - This is all paraphrased and cut down from 
a seminar on Tort law as it applies to safety many years ago.

So the value is a ha'  penny versus a pound sterling.

From: ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com 
[mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2011 8:51 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer


I don't think UL would be sued; the manufacturer is ultimately liable.  The is 
little or no benefit of 3rd party certification of a product under Tort law.
_

Ralph McDiarmid  |   Schneider Electric   |  Renewable Energies Business  |   
CANADA  |   Regulatory Compliance Engineering


From:

John Woodgate 

To:

EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Date:

11/14/2011 10:50 PM

Subject:

Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer






In message <4ec19e99.7060...@aol.com>, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Derek
Walton  writes:

>I guess I find this nonsense.   ANYTHING abused looks dangerous.
>
>More examples of Nanny state control.

Yes, but if they didn't do it, UL would be sued for $100 by
everyone who sets their fryer on fyer. That may happen anyway because
the person concerned can't read English.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of
biting a rook.

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Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-15 Thread Ralph . McDiarmid
I don't think UL would be sued; the manufacturer is ultimately liable. The 
is little or no benefit of 3rd party certification of a product under Tort 
law.
_
 


Ralph McDiarmid  |   Schneider Electric   |  Renewable Energies Business | 
  CANADA  |   Regulatory Compliance Engineering 




From:
John Woodgate 
To:
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Date:
11/14/2011 10:50 PM
Subject:
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer



In message <4ec19e99.7060...@aol.com>, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Derek 
Walton  writes:

>I guess I find this nonsense.   ANYTHING abused looks dangerous.
>
>More examples of Nanny state control.

Yes, but if they didn't do it, UL would be sued for $100 by 
everyone who sets their fryer on fyer. That may happen anyway because 
the person concerned can't read English.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking 
of
biting a rook.

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Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-14 Thread John Woodgate
In message , dated Tue, 15 Nov 2011, 
John Woodgate  writes:


In message 
o
soft.com>, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Ted Eckert 
 writes:


If the fryer is used by laymen, IEC 60335-2-13 is likely the correct 
standard.  Its scope includes the following text.


"Appliances intended for normal household and similar use and that may 
also be used by laymen in shops, in light industry and on farms are 
within the scope of this standard. However, if the appliance is 
intended to be used professionally to process food for commercial 
consumption, the appliance is not considered to be for household and 
similar use only."


This would appear to cover deep-fat fryers used in restaurants and 
shops, but not food processing plants.


Yes, BUT, as I said, SC61E hasn't got round to making a special 
standard for commercial fryers. So the 'standards route' to complying 
with the LVD in Europe is to use 60335-2-13 and include in the safety 
assessment document the reasons why that standard is applicable to your 
particular product. That can, if necessary, be supplemented by an 
opinion from a Notified Body.


CORRECTION: IEC 60335-2-37 applies


A product that's safe in a home or restaurant doesn't automatically 
become unsafe if it's moved into a plant.


This is still true.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of
biting a rook.

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Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-14 Thread John Woodgate
In message , dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, 
John Woodgate  writes:


In message , dated 
Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Pete Perkins  writes:



  Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial
deep-fat fryer.

  What's the latest?


IEC 60335-2-13
Edition 6.0 (2009-12-14)
Household and similar electrical appliances - Safety - Part 2-13: 
Particular requirements for deep fat fryers, frying pans and similar 
appliances


This is mainly aimed at household appliances, but SC61E hasn't got 
round to making a separate standard for commercial appliances.



CORRECTION

IEC 60335-2-37 applies.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of
biting a rook.

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Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-14 Thread John Woodgate
In message , 
dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Nick Williams  
writes:


60335-2-37 is for commercial appliances but isn't much use for gas 
fired or food factory type equipment.


That's peculiar: I thought that such a standard existed but a search of 
the IEC SC61E web site didn't show it. I think I know why: the page I 
asked for didn't appear, but one that resembled it did.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of
biting a rook.

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Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-14 Thread John Woodgate
In message 
soft.com>, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Ted Eckert  
writes:


If the fryer is used by laymen, IEC 60335-2-13 is likely the correct 
standard.  Its scope includes the following text.


"Appliances intended for normal household and similar use and that may 
also be used by laymen in shops, in light industry and on farms are 
within the scope of this standard. However, if the appliance is 
intended to be used professionally to process food for commercial 
consumption, the appliance is not considered to be for household and 
similar use only."


This would appear to cover deep-fat fryers used in restaurants and 
shops, but not food processing plants.


Yes, BUT, as I said, SC61E hasn't got round to making a special standard 
for commercial fryers. So the 'standards route' to complying with the 
LVD in Europe is to use 60335-2-13 and include in the safety assessment 
document the reasons why that standard is applicable to your particular 
product. That can, if necessary, be supplemented by an opinion from a 
Notified Body.


A product that's safe in a home or restaurant doesn't automatically 
become unsafe if it's moved into a plant.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of
biting a rook.

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Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-14 Thread John Woodgate
In message <4ec19e99.7060...@aol.com>, dated Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Derek 
Walton  writes:



I guess I find this nonsense.   ANYTHING abused looks dangerous.

More examples of Nanny state control.


Yes, but if they didn't do it, UL would be sued for $100 by 
everyone who sets their fryer on fyer. That may happen anyway because 
the person concerned can't read English.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of
biting a rook.

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Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-14 Thread Ralph . McDiarmid
Agreed Ken.   In fact, I'm not at all convinced that products in the USA 
or Canada require 3rd party safety "blessing" from an agency.  The new 
approach directive in the EU for product safety appears to work perfectly 
well without any agency involvement.  I'd like to see that approach 
adopted here, but alas with all the litigation on this side of the "pond", 
it will likely never happen.  On the other hand, CSA and UL do employ a 
lot of good people.
_
 


Ralph McDiarmid  |   Schneider Electric   |  Renewable Energies Business | 
  CANADA  |   Regulatory Compliance Engineering 




From:
Ken Javor 
To:
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Date:
11/14/2011 03:23 PM
Subject:
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer



Well, UL is a company, not the gov't. Agree the gov't has no business
certifying products, but that is water under the bridge at this point.  If
UL, as a private company, feels that a significant fraction of the 
potential
customer base could harm themselves using this product, then they have 
every
right to refrain from certifying it. That shouldn't mean that it isn't
available on the market, just that UL hasn't blessed it.
 
Ken Javor

Phone: (256) 650-5261


> From: Derek Walton 
> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:04:57 -0600
> To: dougp01 
> Cc: Pete Perkins , 
> Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
> 
> Hi Doug,
> 
> I guess I find this nonsense.   ANYTHING abused looks dangerous.
> 
> More examples of Nanny state control.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Derek.
> 
> On 11/14/2011 4:13 PM, dougp01 wrote:
>> Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video.
>> 
>> 
http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/consumer/productsaf

>> ety/turkeys/ 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  doug powell
>> 
>> -Original Message- From: Pete Perkins
>> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:00 PM
>> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> Subject: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
>> 
>> PSNet,
>> 
>> Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial
>> deep-fat fryer.
>> 
>> What's the latest?
>> 
>> :>) br, Pete
>> 
>> Peter E Perkins, PE
>> Principal Product Safety Engineer
>> PO Box 23427
>> Tigard, ORe  97281-3427
>> 
>> 503/452-1201 fone/fax
>> p.perk...@ieee.org
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> 
>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
>> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your
>> e-mail to 
>> 
>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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>> that URL.
>> 
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>> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>> 
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>> Mike Cantwell 
>> 
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>> David Heald: 
>> -
>> 
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>> e-mail to 
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>> that URL.
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> 
> -
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emc-pstc
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> 
> 
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URL.
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Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-14 Thread Ralph . McDiarmid
I disagree.  Some devices like lawn-mowers, table-saws, snow-blowers and 
chainsaws are inherently dangerous by necessity, because of their intended 
function.  I don't know how (or whether) one needs to design a lawn-mower 
or a chainsaw to be "idiot proof".  When used properly with due care and 
in accordance with its operation instructions, these devices are in fact 
quite safe.  Clearly some devices are truly not intended for use by 
anyone.
_
 


Ralph McDiarmid  |   Schneider Electric   |  Renewable Energies Business | 
  CANADA  |   Regulatory Compliance Engineering




From:
Richard Nute 
To:
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Date:
11/14/2011 03:20 PM
Subject:
Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer



These are not necessarily problems due to the fryer
itself.  Instead, the problems are due to the behavior
of the user. 

As with lawnmowers and table saws, the fryer can be
(and probably should be) designed to thwart any behavior 
shortcomings.


Rich


> -Original Message-
> From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf 
> Of Derek Walton
> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 3:05 PM
> To: dougp01
> Cc: Pete Perkins; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
> 
> 
> Hi Doug,
> 
> I guess I find this nonsense.   ANYTHING abused looks dangerous.
> 
> More examples of Nanny state control.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Derek.
> 
> On 11/14/2011 4:13 PM, dougp01 wrote:
> > Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video.
> >
> > 
> http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/cons
> umer/productsafety/turkeys/ 
> >
> >
> >
> >  doug powell
> >

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Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-14 Thread Derek Walton

Hi Doug,

I guess I find this nonsense.   ANYTHING abused looks dangerous.

More examples of Nanny state control.

Cheers,

Derek.

On 11/14/2011 4:13 PM, dougp01 wrote:

Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video.

http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/consumer/productsafety/turkeys/ 




 doug powell

-Original Message- From: Pete Perkins
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:00 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

PSNet,

Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial
deep-fat fryer.

What's the latest?

:>) br, Pete

Peter E Perkins, PE
Principal Product Safety Engineer
PO Box 23427
Tigard, ORe  97281-3427

503/452-1201 fone/fax
p.perk...@ieee.org


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Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-14 Thread Rene Charton/Twn/TUV
No, I think UL has a point here.

As you can see from the Video that Turkey fryer is Gas fired, so there is
always a ingnition source present.

As far as I recall Deep Fat Fryers for home use in Europe:
- are electrically heated, with the heat source inside and protected by an
outside enclosure that is below 50 deg (i.e. can be touched by the user) it
will cool spilled oil instead of igniting it.
- all models I recall to have seen are smaller. The food to be fried it to
be put into a cage with a handle, and can at maximum hold a small chicken.
-
The deep-fat fryer shown in the UL video really seems to be too cheaply
built.
Such deep-fat fryers should always be intended for commercial use only, so
a slightly higher price should be acceptable
- There must be a better protection against tilting over
- There must be a provision that spilled oil does not reach the bottom part
of the outside of the fryer, but is instead collected in a ring attached to
the upper part of the outside

Rgds

Rene Charton





   
 Derek Walton  
 To 
 Sent by:  dougp01  
 emc-p...@ieee.org  cc 
   Pete Perkins ,  
   EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
 11/15/2011 07:04  Subject 
 AMRe: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat   
   fryer   
   
   
   
   
   
   




Hi Doug,

I guess I find this nonsense.   ANYTHING abused looks dangerous.

More examples of Nanny state control.

Cheers,

Derek.

On 11/14/2011 4:13 PM, dougp01 wrote:
> Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video.
>
>
http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/consumer/productsafety/turkeys/

>
>
>
>  doug powell
>
> -Original Message- From: Pete Perkins
> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:00 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
>
> PSNet,
>
> Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial
> deep-fat fryer.
>
> What's the latest?
>
> :>) br, Pete
>
> Peter E Perkins, PE
> Principal Product Safety Engineer
> PO Box 23427
> Tigard, ORe  97281-3427
>
> 503/452-1201 fone/fax
> p.perk...@ieee.org
>
>
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your
> e-mail to 
>
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>
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>
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> -
> 
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>
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Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-14 Thread Richard Nute
These are not necessarily problems due to the fryer
itself.  Instead, the problems are due to the behavior
of the user.  

As with lawnmowers and table saws, the fryer can be
(and probably should be) designed to thwart any behavior 
shortcomings.


Rich


> -Original Message-
> From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf 
> Of Derek Walton
> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 3:05 PM
> To: dougp01
> Cc: Pete Perkins; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
> 
> 
> Hi Doug,
> 
> I guess I find this nonsense.   ANYTHING abused looks dangerous.
> 
> More examples of Nanny state control.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Derek.
> 
> On 11/14/2011 4:13 PM, dougp01 wrote:
> > Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video.
> >
> > 
> http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/cons
> umer/productsafety/turkeys/ 
> >
> >
> >
> >  doug powell
> >

-

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Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-14 Thread Farley, John
That is a wonderful bit of propaganda put out by UL to justify their decision 
to categorically refuse to NRTL list turkey fryers as being intrinsically 
unsafe/ unable to be used safely by the general public. And yet one easily 
finds them on the shelves of Wal-Mart, Target, etc. (with no UL mark, of 
course) this time of year.  Of course, you also read of a large number of 
fires/ injuries resulting from the use of turkey fryers this time of year as 
well so UL might have a valid point...

I particularly like the UL employee lowering the frozen turkey with tongs into 
a full vat of boiling oil while wearing what appears to be a full fire-fighting 
suit including breathing apparatus.  It's just so wonderfully over-the-top.  I 
also enjoy the image of dramatically tipping over the boiling oil towards the 
camera.  Visions of the Middle Ages sure to appeal to our European friends!

It's kind of old now (it came out in 2003 or 2004) but UL was seemed quite 
pleased with it and featured it prominently on their homepage at the time if I 
recall correctly.

John P. Farley

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of dougp01
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 4:13 PM
To: Pete Perkins; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video.

http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/consumer/productsafety/turkeys/


  doug powell

-Original Message-
From: Pete Perkins
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:00 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

PSNet,

Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial
deep-fat fryer.

What's the latest?

:>) br, Pete

Peter E Perkins, PE
Principal Product Safety Engineer
PO Box 23427
Tigard, ORe  97281-3427

503/452-1201 fone/fax
p.perk...@ieee.org


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Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-14 Thread Ken Javor
Well, UL is a company, not the gov't. Agree the gov't has no business
certifying products, but that is water under the bridge at this point.  If
UL, as a private company, feels that a significant fraction of the potential
customer base could harm themselves using this product, then they have every
right to refrain from certifying it. That shouldn't mean that it isn't
available on the market, just that UL hasn't blessed it.
 
Ken Javor

Phone: (256) 650-5261


> From: Derek Walton 
> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:04:57 -0600
> To: dougp01 
> Cc: Pete Perkins , 
> Subject: Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
> 
> Hi Doug,
> 
> I guess I find this nonsense.   ANYTHING abused looks dangerous.
> 
> More examples of Nanny state control.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Derek.
> 
> On 11/14/2011 4:13 PM, dougp01 wrote:
>> Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video.
>> 
>> http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/consumer/productsaf
>> ety/turkeys/ 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  doug powell
>> 
>> -Original Message- From: Pete Perkins
>> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:00 PM
>> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
>> Subject: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer
>> 
>> PSNet,
>> 
>> Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial
>> deep-fat fryer.
>> 
>> What's the latest?
>> 
>> :>) br, Pete
>> 
>> Peter E Perkins, PE
>> Principal Product Safety Engineer
>> PO Box 23427
>> Tigard, ORe  97281-3427
>> 
>> 503/452-1201 fone/fax
>> p.perk...@ieee.org
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> 
>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
>> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your
>> e-mail to 
>> 
>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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>> that URL.
>> 
>> Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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>> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
>> 
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>> Scott Douglas 
>> Mike Cantwell 
>> 
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>> David Heald: 
>> -
>> 
>> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
>> emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your
>> e-mail to 
>> 
>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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>> that URL.
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>> 
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>> 
> 
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
> 
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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> 
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> 
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> Mike Cantwell 
> 
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Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-14 Thread Nick Williams
60335-2-37 is for commercial appliances but isn't much use for gas fired or 
food factory type equipment. 

Nick. 





On 14 Nov 2011, at 22:14, John Woodgate wrote:

> In message , dated Mon, 14 
> Nov 2011, Pete Perkins  writes:
> 
>>  Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial
>> deep-fat fryer.
>> 
>>  What's the latest?
> 
> IEC 60335-2-13
> Edition 6.0 (2009-12-14)
> Household and similar electrical appliances - Safety - Part 2-13: Particular 
> requirements for deep fat fryers, frying pans and similar appliances
> 
> This is mainly aimed at household appliances, but SC61E hasn't got round to 
> making a separate standard for commercial appliances.
> -- 

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Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-14 Thread dougp01

Never heard of this in Europe, for N.A. look at this video.

http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/perspectives/consumer/productsafety/turkeys/


 doug powell

-Original Message- 
From: Pete Perkins

Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:00 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

PSNet,

Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial
deep-fat fryer.

What's the latest?

:>) br, Pete

Peter E Perkins, PE
Principal Product Safety Engineer
PO Box 23427
Tigard, ORe  97281-3427

503/452-1201 fone/fax
p.perk...@ieee.org


-

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URL.


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Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-14 Thread Ted Eckert
If the fryer is used by laymen, IEC 60335-2-13 is likely the correct standard.  
Its scope includes the following text.

"Appliances intended for normal household and similar use and that may also be 
used by laymen in shops, in light industry and on farms are within the scope of 
this standard. However, if the appliance is intended to be used professionally 
to process food for commercial consumption, the appliance is not considered to 
be for household and similar use only."

This would appear to cover deep-fat fryers used in restaurants and shops, but 
not food processing plants.

Ted Eckert
Compliance Engineer
Microsoft Corporation
ted.eck...@microsoft.com

The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my 
employer.

-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] 
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 2:15 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: CE marking of deep-fat fryer

In message , dated Mon, 14 
Nov 2011, Pete Perkins  writes:

>   Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial 
>deep-fat fryer.
>
>   What's the latest?

IEC 60335-2-13
Edition 6.0 (2009-12-14)
Household and similar electrical appliances - Safety - Part 2-13: 
Particular requirements for deep fat fryers, frying pans and similar appliances

This is mainly aimed at household appliances, but SC61E hasn't got round to 
making a separate standard for commercial appliances.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John 
Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are 
peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook.

-

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Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-14 Thread John Woodgate
In message , dated 
Mon, 14 Nov 2011, Pete Perkins  writes:



  Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial
deep-fat fryer.

  What's the latest?


IEC 60335-2-13
Edition 6.0 (2009-12-14)
Household and similar electrical appliances - Safety - Part 2-13: 
Particular requirements for deep fat fryers, frying pans and similar 
appliances


This is mainly aimed at household appliances, but SC61E hasn't got round 
to making a separate standard for commercial appliances.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of
biting a rook.

-

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Re: [PSES] CE marking of deep-fat fryer

2011-11-14 Thread Nick Williams
Hi Pete,

By commercial, do you mean for use in a restaurant or retail (take away) 
environment or in a food factory?

Is it gas heated or electric?

Any powered moving parts?

Nick. 


On 14 Nov 2011, at 21:00, Pete Perkins wrote:

> PSNet,
> 
>   Looking for input on requirements for CE marking of a commercial
> deep-fat fryer.  
> 
>   What's the latest?  
> 
> :>) br, Pete
> 
> 

-

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