[Emc-users] terrible latency on older Shuttle + Nvidia GeForce4 Ti 4600

[Gary Fixler]

I tried to send a message last night, but it never showed up on the list. I
have the worst time getting messages through.

Basically, I'm on an aging Shuttle PC from 2002 with an Nvidia GeForce4 Ti
4600. When I start up latency-test, I'm in the single-digit thousands, like
6500 or so. If I play around online with Flash things (e.g. the Fantastic
Contraption game) it jumps to about 35k(ns) for the base thread jitter. If I
open glxgears it usually bumps up to 150k+, and if I maximize it, it soars
to well over 350k, sometimes almost 400k. The machine does feel laggy - slow
window redraws when dragging windows - but I'm also used to a much faster
machine now.

I've searched linuxcnc and google, and read a bunch about latency, PLCs,
CAS, et al on Wikipedia, but it's just too much to absorb, and I can't
really find targeted debug steps to try. What have you guys done to diagnose
these problems. What are some steps I can try? The manual was pretty brief
about this. Unfortunately, I know absolutely nothing about things like
network adapters and BIOS whatnots.

This is something that's been following me since the Dapper version. I've
just installed the 8.04 version, and it's quite pretty, but I can't get past
stage 1. Even the configuration wizard won't work right, because with all of
the values I'm getting, I can't even run the test buttons properly. The
motors step about once per second unless I lie heavily in my answers to
questions, like max accel and feed rates and such, and I still can't get it
to move well.

Thanks for any help. I'd love more than anything to get this sorted. Lots of
projects lined up!
-Gary
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Re: [Emc-users] Arduino with Ubuntu 8.04

[Steve Hobbs]

Works perfectly - both the Arduino comms (ftdi_sio) and EMC2.

Thank you.

Steve

On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 19:48 -0500, Jeff Epler wrote:
> Alex Joni has uploaded a new version of the kernel package which
> includes the ftdi_sio driver.  If you can, please try the new kernel
> package by downloading
> 
> http://www.linuxcnc.org/hardy/dists/hardy/base/binary-i386/linux-image-2.6.24-16-rtai_2.6.24-16.30.linuxcnc.4_i386.deb
> and installing it with dpkg.  If this works for you (both ftdi_sio and
> emc2), then we'll probably make the package available through the
> regular update process.
> 
> Thanks again for reporting this problem, and I hope the new kernel
> package fixes this for you without the problems you mentioned relating
> to having your own self-built kernel package.  Let us know the results.
> 
> Jeff



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Re: [Emc-users] terrible latency on older Shuttle + Nvidia GeForce4 Ti 4600

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 04 October 2008, Gary Fixler wrote:
>I tried to send a message last night, but it never showed up on the list. I
>have the worst time getting messages through.
>
>Basically, I'm on an aging Shuttle PC from 2002 with an Nvidia GeForce4 Ti
>4600. When I start up latency-test, I'm in the single-digit thousands, like
>6500 or so. If I play around online with Flash things (e.g. the Fantastic
>Contraption game) it jumps to about 35k(ns) for the base thread jitter. If I
>open glxgears it usually bumps up to 150k+, and if I maximize it, it soars
>to well over 350k, sometimes almost 400k. The machine does feel laggy - slow
>window redraws when dragging windows - but I'm also used to a much faster
>machine now.
>
>I've searched linuxcnc and google, and read a bunch about latency, PLCs,
>CAS, et al on Wikipedia, but it's just too much to absorb, and I can't
>really find targeted debug steps to try. What have you guys done to diagnose
>these problems. What are some steps I can try? The manual was pretty brief
>about this. Unfortunately, I know absolutely nothing about things like
>network adapters and BIOS whatnots.
>
>This is something that's been following me since the Dapper version. I've
>just installed the 8.04 version, and it's quite pretty, but I can't get past
>stage 1. Even the configuration wizard won't work right, because with all of
>the values I'm getting, I can't even run the test buttons properly. The
>motors step about once per second unless I lie heavily in my answers to
>questions, like max accel and feed rates and such, and I still can't get it
>to move well.
>
>Thanks for any help. I'd love more than anything to get this sorted. Lots of
>projects lined up!
>-Gary

I'm gonna play possum, and go out to the end of a persimmon branch and 
probably saw it off behind me here, but

Does this shuttle have its nvidia video on the main board, sharing the system 
memory instead of using its own?

If that is the case, then the first step is an offboard video card in either 
an AGP slot if it has one, or the first PCI slot.  And FWIW, I have an older 
AGP GForce2 5200/256 nvidia in my machine, and latencies were terrible when 
using the nvidia binary, quite a bit better when using the nv module, and 
much much better when using the fallback if nothing else works 'vesa' driver.  
So that is what I'm using.

To do that offboard video, you'll need to disable the onboard video in the 
bios.

And steer clear of later nvidia cards, their soldering alloy and method 
virtually guarantees a failure within a year.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Life is a yo-yo, and mankind ties knots in the string.

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Re: [Emc-users] terrible latency on older Shuttle + Nvidia GeForce4 Ti 4600

[John Kasunich]

Gary Fixler wrote:
> I tried to send a message last night, but it never showed up on the list. I
> have the worst time getting messages through.
> 
> Basically, I'm on an aging Shuttle PC from 2002 with an Nvidia GeForce4 Ti
> 4600. When I start up latency-test, I'm in the single-digit thousands, like
> 6500 or so. If I play around online with Flash things (e.g. the Fantastic
> Contraption game) it jumps to about 35k(ns) for the base thread jitter. If I
> open glxgears it usually bumps up to 150k+, and if I maximize it, it soars
> to well over 350k, sometimes almost 400k. The machine does feel laggy - slow
> window redraws when dragging windows - but I'm also used to a much faster
> machine now.

Severe latency problems when running GLXgears almost always points
towards hardware graphics acceleration.  Usually the video board
manufacturer has a proprietary driver which either disables interrupts
for long periods, or does bus mastering DMA, or something else that
interferes with the computer doing realtime code.

There are two solutions to that:

1) use an open-source driver, such as the generic vesa driver, which
doesn't use hardware acceleration.  Graphics will be slower, but
realtime performance will improve

2) switch to a different, perhaps older, graphics card  Many people have
had success with various Matrox cards

Regards,

John Kasunich

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Re: [Emc-users] Problem on EMC2 starting with rtai_hall.ko

[paul_c]

Hi Evgeny

On Thursday 25 September 2008, Евгений Александрович wrote:
> > sounds like rtai is already loaded. Either you compiled it into the
> > kernel, not as a module.
> What do you mean. Did I somesing worng in kernel?

It is impossible to "compile rtai_hal" in to the kernel - The Makefile 
associated with rtai_hal explicitly states rtai_hal.ko will be compiled as a 
module.

> # emc
> EMC2 - 2.2.5
> Machine configuration directory is
> '/usr/local/etc/emc2/sample-configs/stepper' Machine configuration file is
> 'stepper_mm.ini'
> Starting EMC2...
> insmod: error inserting '/usr/realtime/modules/rtai_hal.ko': -1 File exists
> Realtime system did not load
> Shutting down and cleaning up EMC2...
> /bin/pidof: illegal option -- x

There is the most likely root cause of your system not cleaning up after 
running emc2.

> BusyBox v1.6.1 (2007-08-26 04:52:27 MDT) multi-call binary

BusyBox has not been tested or validated with the emc2 run scripts. It is 
quite possible that more scripting errors are waiting to bite if you are not 
using a bash shell.

Question: Are you loading the RTAI modules from an init script during boot 
up ?



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Re: [Emc-users] Arduino with Ubuntu 8.04

[sam sokolik]

I am home - what do you want to do about suzi?

love you
sam
- Original Message - 
From: "Steve Hobbs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Arduino with Ubuntu 8.04



The final piece of the jigsaw, in case anyone has similar problems.

The Arduino IDE wouldn't talk to the Arduino board because
serial.debug_rate in ~/.arduino/preferences.txt was set to 14400, a
value not supported by the port (something to do with the ftdi_sio
driver?).

Setting this value to 9600 cured my final problem.

The relevant thread on the Arduino forum is:
http://www.arduino.cc/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1222121634


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Re: [Emc-users] Emc-users Digest, Vol 29, Issue 62

[Michael Stumpp]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
> Send Emc-users mailing list submissions to
>   emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>   https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Emc-users digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re: This is a test, since my last several posts havebeen
>   swallowed. (Erik Christiansen)
>2. Re: Problem on EMC2 starting with rtai_hall.ko
>   (??? ?)
>3. Re: Stop and Go (Jimmy Schneiderman)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:22:56 +1000
> From: Erik Christiansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] This is a test,  since my last several posts
>   havebeen swallowed.
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
>   
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 11:58:49AM -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
>   
>> Erik Christiansen wrote:
>> 
>>> I've tweaked my postfix configuration very slightly, and am hoping that
>>> will allow me to post, despite sourceforge's anti-spam upgrade.
>>>
>>>   
>>>   
>> Yeah, what are they up to?  I have already had a perfectly reasonable 
>> message rejected.
>> This was the "reason" for the message being rejected.
>>
>>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> retry time not reached for any host after a long failure period
>>
>>
>> Maybe just a computer glitch.
>> 
>
> Sounds like it, but that error message implies that your message was
> rejected because the "failure period" was not long enough. ;-)
> But sysadmins can put any text they like, and even muck with the
> quasi-pseudo-standardised 5xx and 4xx error codes, so it can be good
> going to half understand half of them.
>
> In my case it appears that my dynamic IP was falling foul of list host
> anti-spam measures, and my initial attempts to relay my posts via the
> ISP were a tad off. In case anyone else is running postfix, I had:
>
> relayhost = mail.internode.on.net
># Which should have been:
> relayhost = [mail.internode.on.net]
>
> The former worked for all destinations other than sourceforge.
> (What's the difference? Well the doco says "... [] eliminates DNS MX
> lookups.", but I'm not digging further, 'coz it now works.
>
> Actually Jon, it's from your helpful off-list reply on "Thu, 31 Jul 2008
> 12:10:59 -0500", where a prior bounce was described, that I
> gained the inkling that sourceforge had begun employing SpamAsassin.
> (A spam-free list is worth a lot, but can cost a lot of effort to find
> out how to get back on, especially when there's no reply from postmaster
> or hostmaster, despite the RFCs.)
>
> Erik
>
>   
Hi,

my name is Michael and i am from Germany. So first of all i have to 
apologize my bad english.

I`m using EMC2 for a longer time now on a self-made milling machine and 
it works very well. So thanks for that software.

No i`m planning another machine where I need several I/O connections. So 
I bought an Anything I/O card from Mesa, the 7I43. Furthermore I bought 
a 7i42 break out bord. My problem is, i don`t exactly now how to wire 
these Cards. Also I can`t find a manual or something for the 7i42. Can 
somebody of you help me?

Thanks a lot
Micha

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Re: [Emc-users] SMI-Like latency problems that don't respond to rtapi_smi.ko fix

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 27 September 2008, Jon Elson wrote:
>Gene Heskett wrote:
>> I don't know if this has any bearing or not for you, but I have an nvidia
>> card on my emc box, and had to switch it to use the vesa driver to get
>> that under control.  The nvidia binary blob was truly terrible, the nv
>> driver was better, and the vesa driver was the best.
>
>Hmm, probably best to NOT use high-end gaming video boards on a
>real-time system.
>I have had a LOT of trouble using stock drivers on nvidia.  Generally, I
>get outright crashes, screen freezes, and other nasty artifacts, and
>have to install the nvidia custom driver right away after the install.
>(For instance, on this machine I am typing on, I had 3 crashes before I
>got around to doing the nvidia driver install, they all looked like
>video problems.  After putting in the proprietary driver, it has been
>stable.  Unstable CNC controls are NOT a good idea!)
>
>Jon
>
It's been exactly the opposite here on this house box Jon.  I was running the 
nvidia card, and their driver, but I had lots of disk corruption that 
required long sessions with e2fsck, and on 2 occasions got the boot drives 
LSN0 wiped clean.  I switched to an ati card and the radeon driver, end of 
problem, but google sketchup won't run on it.  About a month ago I 
reinstalled the nvidia card and its driver using an old, still compatible 
kernel just to see if sketchup would run, and it does, but it took it just 11 
hours to trash a drive again. e2fscking a 500GB drive is at best a boring 
job.

Obviously I'm back on the ati card.

This mobo may wind up in the emc box at some point, I have a fawncy ASUS 
board, a phenom quad core, 4GB of ram and some newer pci-e cards just waiting 
for me to find my round tuit and build it. :)

>-
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-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
It's as BAD as you think, and they ARE out to get you.

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Re: [Emc-users] Problem on EMC2 starting with rtai_hall.ko

[Jim Coleman]

your base period and those timings need adjusted to a higher number, the
computer isnt able to keep up with the speeds the configs are trying to
run.  these are in the stepper_mm.ini file.

this talks about using the latency test to set the timings.
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TweakingSoftwareStepGeneration

2008/9/25 Евгений Александрович <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> Hello,
>
> I have more information.
>
> I installed linux&emc2 on real machine.
>
> I have same result :(
>
> But if I try to start emc second time withour reboot system starts, but
> with errors. (Both on VM and RM)
> It is log of second start.
>
> # emc
> EMC2 - 2.2.5
> Machine configuration directory is
> '/usr/local/etc/emc2/sample-configs/stepper'
> Machine configuration file is 'stepper_mm.ini'
> Starting EMC2...
> libnml/cms/tcp_srv.cc 278: bind error: 98 -- Address already in use
> libnml/cms/tcp_srv.cc 279: Server can not bind the connection socket on
> port 5005.
> libnml/rcs/rcs_exit.cc 99:
>  Errors Reported!!!
>  Press ^C to exit.
> RTAPI: ERROR: Unexpected realtime delay on task 1
>
> I can start program, but this way I get messagebox "Unexpected realtime
> delay on task 1" several times.
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Евгений Александрович<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller \(EMC\)
> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 13:19:07 +0400
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users]Problem on EMC2 starting with rtai_hall.ko
>
> >
> >
> > > sounds like rtai is already loaded. Either you compiled it into the
> kernel,
> > > not as a module.
> > What do you mean. Did I somesing worng in kernel?
> >
> > > Or you had a latency test still running, or the last time you had
> realtime
> > > run there was some problem during unload.
> > > A lsmod should tell you more, and a reboot will probably cure it.
> > Reboot is not solution. I tried it many times.
> > At bottom is my log after reboot
> >
> > > > I user VMWare machine under WinXP
> > >
> > > I do that too sometimes without problems. (I don't expect to run any
> real
> > > machine this way..)
> >
> > Any way I will try to install on real machine.
> >
> >  EMC DEBUG FILE
> > Stopping realtime threads
> > Unloading hal components
> >
> >  EMC PRINT FILE
> > RUN_IN_PLACE=no
> > EMC2_DIR=
> > EMC2_BIN_DIR=/usr/local/bin
> > EMC2_TCL_DIR=/usr/local/share/emc/tcl
> > EMC2_SCRIPT_DIR=
> > EMC2_RTLIB_DIR=/usr/realtime/modules/emc2
> > EMC2_CONFIG_DIR=
> > EMC2_LANG_DIR=/usr/local/share/emc/tcl/msgs
> > INIVAR=/usr/local/bin/inivar
> > HALCMD=/usr/local/bin/halcmd
> > EMC2_EMCSH=/usr/local/bin/emcsh
> > EMC2_IOSH=/usr/local/bin/iosh
> > INIFILE=/usr/local/etc/emc2/sample-configs/stepper/stepper_mm.ini
> > PARAMETER_FILE=stepper.var
> > EMCMOT=motmod
> > EMCIO=io
> > TASK=milltask
> > HALUI=
> > DISPLAY=axis
> > NML_FILE=emc.nml
> > Starting EMC2 server program: emcsvr
> > Loading Real Time OS, RTAPI, and HAL_LIB modules
> > Removing HAL_LIB, RTAPI, and Real Time OS modules
> > Removing NML shared memory segments
> >
> >  CONSOLE LOG
> > # lsmod
> > Module  Size  Used by
> > usb_storage84160  0
> > usbcore   138220  1 usb_storage
> > ide_cd 39584  0
> > cdrom  36384  1 ide_cd
> > evdev  11648  0
> > hal_lib36376  0
> > rtapi  35796  1 hal_lib
> > rtai_math  27140  0
> > rtai_sem   23552  1 rtapi
> > rtai_shm   12164  1 rtapi
> > rtai_fifos 29640  1 rtapi
> > rtai_sched102360  4 rtapi,rtai_sem,rtai_shm,rtai_fifos
> > rtai_hal   39868  5
> rtapi,rtai_sem,rtai_shm,rtai_fifos,rtai_sched
> > snd_mixer_oss  16384  0
> > snd_hda_intel 283548  0
> > snd_pcm76936  1 snd_hda_intel
> > snd_timer  22788  1 snd_pcm
> > snd51940  4
> snd_mixer_oss,snd_hda_intel,snd_pcm,snd_timer
> > soundcore   7392  1 snd
> > snd_page_alloc 10376  2 snd_hda_intel,snd_pcm
> > apm20432  0
> > nls_utf82048  0
> > nls_cp866   5248  0
> >
> > # cd /usr/realtime/testsuite/kern/latency/
> > # ./run
> > *
> > *
> > * Type ^C to stop this application.
> > *
> > *
> >
> > ## RTAI latency calibration tool ##
> > # period = 10 (ns)
> > # avrgtime = 1 (s)
> > # do not use the FPU
> > # start the timer
> > # timer_mode is oneshot
> >
> > RTAI Testsuite - KERNEL latency (all data in nanoseconds)
> > RTH|lat min|ovl min|lat avg|lat max|ovl max|
> overruns
> > RTD|  0|  0|  91538|2443889|2443889|
> 8498
> > RTD|  0|  0|  92556|1709717|2443889|
>  17202
> > RTD|   -838|   -838|  92385|1765031|2443889|
>  25888
> > RTD|  0|   -838|  91617|1727317|2443889|
>  34456
> > RTD|  0|   -838|  92610|17

Re: [Emc-users] Stepper drivers

[Jon Elson]

Dean Hedin wrote:
> Ian,  I think it's great that you would build your own driver.
> But to do so is not for the sake of saving money.
> Maybe as a learning excersize, but not to save money.
>
> Once you figure in your time and effort, you won't beat the cost of an off 
> the shelf unit as Dave has indicated below.

Yeah, don't forget that any power development project will invariably 
have a few popped parts, and a few that didn't work the way you want, 
causing you to buy more parts.  Unless it is a VERY basic L/R or 
unipolar chopper design, and with those the performance is typically so 
AWFUL, you end up either canning the whole project or going with 
commercial microstepping drives, anyway.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Stepper drivers

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 28 September 2008, Ian Wright wrote:
>Ian,  I think it's great that you would build your own driver.
>
>But to do so is not for the sake of saving money.
>Maybe as a learning excersize, but not to save money.>>>
>
>Thanks for the replies guys - from all the traffic I seem to have generated,
> I guess I may have bitten off more than I can chew at present. I do have a
> couple of real simple driver boards which will drive the motors but they,
> and particularly the motors, get hot as hell when the motors are not moving
> and I was a bit afraid that they may fry themselves. I had hoped that there
> may be a relatively easy way to do a chopper drive with current control - I
> had naively thought that maybe it would be possible to grab a current
> reference from a higher powered FET output stage ( maybe driven by the
> existing output FETs/ Transistors) and feed that back into one of the
> 'standard' microstepping designs - perhaps even using another PIC chip as
> the current controller. As I said before, I guess I'm somewhat out of my
> depth here and since, while the 'spares box' is full of electronics bits,
> the bank is somewhat depleted, it looks like I may just have to root out a
> few big fans and go with what I've got

Years ago, before chopper drives came about, there used to be huge banks of 
high power resistors used in series with each winding, used to control the 
currents when high voltages were used to get some decent speeds out of 
steppers.  So heat some big resistors instead of the motors.  Hot is ok, hot 
as hell isn't.  Set the supply to get a bit less than the motors ratings 
through each winding, and/or set the resistor size and wattage to suit the 
available supply.  I've seen those big 200+ watt ceramic tube resistors used, 
one per winding.  A dozen for a 3 axis setup.  OTOH, they will probably 
deplete the bank account worse than the modern drives would.  There isn't 
much of a market, and those I need to keep our old GE transmitter running are 
apparently being made to order these days, over $150 each, cash with order, 
and around 8 weeks ARO.

Oh, and pipe the hot air out of the top of the resistor cabinet out of the 
shop unless its wintertime & you need the heat. :)

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Martin was probably ripping them off.  That's some family, isn't it?
Incest, prostitution, fanaticism, software.
-- Charles Willeford, "Miami Blues"

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[Emc-users] Looking for "cmoma" ?

[Jon Elson]

Hello, hate to do this on the list.

I got a call on my crummy answering machine a couple days ago about my 
resolver converters from a guy who said his email address was, as best 
as I could get it, cmoma (at) garlic (dot) com,  and he started to give 
his phone number as 408- when the answering machine cut him off.  He 
mentioned EMC.
Anyway, that email didn't work, and a few permutations on it didn't 
work, either.  He is working on a Shizuoka with a Bandit servo 
controller, which is one of the machines that was set up with resolvers.
So, if anyone knows how to get hold of this guy, I'd greatly appreciate it.

I tried some searches on the emc-users mailing list, but couldn't find 
any matches.  The search of user names doesn't work with a leading "*", 
so if that leading letter is wrong, I won't find him.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Stop and Go

[Jimmy Schneiderman]

Dear Ray,


Attached my .ini file

The circle is generate by SurfCam Program, therefore is a buch of points.

Looking forward hearing from you.

Regards,
Jimmy
-- Forwarded message --
From: Ray Henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 2008/9/23
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Stop and Go
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 


On Tue, 2008-09-23 at 13:21 -0300, Jimmy Schneiderman wrote:

> During milling  at 4.000 mm/min, when it comes to a curve the speed
> slow down to 2.000 mm/min.

What accel is set in your INI file?

> When making a 1 meter circle the speed does not top 2.000 mm/min and
>  it does not move continues.  It stops and goes several times,
> shaking all the structure.

How is this circle commanded, a single g2 or g3 or is it a bunch of
small lines?




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motenc.ini
Description: Binary data
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Re: [Emc-users] Errors when trying to start EMC2 with Mesa 7i43

[Richard Acosta]

OK!... thanks a lot!

El 28/09/2008 11:47 p.m., Sebastian Kuzminsky escribió:

Richard Acosta wrote:
  
This 3 are samples for waath i have understand i have to do, but, still 
with no luck on making EMC2 work with this card.


I have based this on the 5120 sample config files found on EMC2 CD.

Kirk Wallace sent me some directions, and:
1) i have no "man hm2_7i43" on my linux (no manual found answers my 
console), and i have downloaded it as an Ubuntu complete CD image from 
LinuxCNC website.



You have m7i43_hm2 but not hm2_7i43; that probably means you're running 
EMC2 2.2.5.  Support for the 7i43 is still evolving rapidly, I'd suggest 
at the very least running the most recent version, 2.2.6, which is also 
available from linuxcnc.org.


There are several known bugs in the 7i43 driver in 2.2.6, you'd be much 
better off checking out and compiling the CVS TRUNK version. 
Instructions for doing that are here: 
, if you 
installed EMC2 from one of the live CDs on linuxcnc.org, you can 
probably skip to step 2.2.



There are two drivers that talk to the 7i43: m7i43_hm2 and hm2_7i43.

m7i43_hm2 was introduced in 2.2.5, it is sort of an early prototype of 
the hm2_7i43 driver.  m7i43_hm2 is deprecated and should not be used.


hm2_7i43 (and its companion driver, hostmot2) were introduced in 2.2.6. 
This is where all current development and bugfixing is happening.  All 
new configs should use hm2_7i43 and hostmot2.



  

*Test 1*
# Install driver.
loadrt hostmot2
loadrt m7i43_hm2 config="firmware=SV8B.BIT num_encoders=1 num_pwmgens=1 
num_stepgens=0"

*Error 1*
Debug file information:
7i43_motion.hal:3: Can't find module 'hostmot2' in 
/usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai/modules/emc2

4913



The error message is saying that the 'hostmot2' driver module cannot be 
found, presumably because you're running emc2 2.2.5 which does not 
include it.


This Test1 configuration is what you should be trying to get working, 
preferably by installing EMC2 from CVS.



  

*Test 2*
# Install driver.
#loadrt hostmot2
loadrt m7i43_hm2 config="firmware=SV8B.BIT num_encoders=1 num_pwmgens=1 
num_stepgens=0"

*Error 2*
Debug file information:
insmod: error inserting 
'/usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai/modules/emc2/m7i43_hm2.ko': -1 Unknown 
symbol in module

7i43_motion.hal:4: exit value: 1
7i43_motion.hal:4: insmod failed, returned -1
5490



This error message is a bit more cryptic.  First of all, as i said 
above, m7i43_hm2 is deprecated and should not be used.  The error is 
because that old driver took in its configuration in a different way 
than the new one.  You're using the command-line syntax for the hm2_7i43 
driver, but passing it to the m7i43_hm2 driver, and it's saying that it 
doesnt expect the "config" argument.



  


This is the only one that makes lights on the card to flash

*Test 3
*# Install driver.
loadrt m7i43_hm2
loadrt m7i43_hm2 config="firmware=SV8B.BIT num_encoders=1 num_pwmgens=1 
num_stepgens=0"

*Error 3*
Debug file information:
insmod: error inserting 
'/usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai/modules/emc2/m7i43_hm2.ko': -1 File exists

7i43_motion.hal:5: exit value: 1
7i43_motion.hal:5: insmod failed, returned -1
6081



Here you're loading the m7i43_hm2 driver twice, which is twice as wrong 
as loading it once ;-)


It works the first time and flashes the LEDs on the board because you 
didnt give it any incorrect load-time arguments.  Then it fails the 
second time and emits that error message because the first instance is 
already loaded and it prevents the second one from loading.



Compile emc2 from CVS, use hostmot2 and hm2_7i43 with the config=... 
argument from Test 1, and let's see how it goes.



  
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[Emc-users] How does axis communicate with emc?

[alan]

I am interested in understanding how Axis communicates with emc because
I want to try sending NML messages to emc from a c# application running
under mono (we all have strange interests of one sort or another!!). Can
someone suggest a starting point for me. I am new to linux but have been
a programmer for many years.

Thanks
Alan


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[Emc-users] demo lathe code?

[l.collier hyams]

Thanks for your responses. It may help for me to run a few test gcode files. 
Can anyone recommend gcode for machining writing pens or spindles in the 
neighborhood of <1"x<12"? I believe I need to watch the actual machining, read 
the code and make mental notes.

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[Emc-users] sai folder

[An Pham Duc]

I don't understand the role of sai folder in emc2. could you help me show
what it is?
thank you.
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[Emc-users] Laptop Pcmcia wireless not working

[Bryce Johnson]

I'm just started to use emc and I have cut out just a few things.  I was
surprised that it worked fine even though it is a 700mhz 128ram... and a
laptop at that.   I had ubuntu 8.04 installed and later ran the script to
install emc.

One thing that is a little annoying.  I have pcmcia wireless card that works
fine in regular ubuntu.  But when I run the rtai kernel version that the
script generated, my wireless no longer works.  Does the pcmcia or certain
wireless drivers get disabled by default in the install?
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Re: [Emc-users] Laptop Pcmcia wireless not working

[Jeff Epler]

On Wed, Oct 01, 2008 at 02:42:54PM -0500, Bryce Johnson wrote:
> One thing that is a little annoying.  I have pcmcia wireless card that works
> fine in regular ubuntu.  But when I run the rtai kernel version that the
> script generated, my wireless no longer works.  Does the pcmcia or certain
> wireless drivers get disabled by default in the install?

some wireless cards work again if you install the extra modules from the
package called
linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24-12-rtai

Jeff

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Re: [Emc-users] Laptop Pcmcia wireless not working

[Kirk Wallace]

On Wed, 2008-10-01 at 16:40 -0400, Greg Michalski wrote:
> Alex - Similar question - I have a "My Essentials" (aka Belkin) USB
> b/g adapter that I couldn't get to run on my 6.06 which I abandoned
> after following several of the different driver wrap guides I found
> online at the time (before I joined the list and before Christmas 07 -
> they were onsale cheap 'Black Friday' and I planned to get 2 - one for
> home and one to float around the office at work since our illustrious
> neanderthal leader fears connecting the whole office to the internet -
> different discussion altogether, but there was only one left when I
> made it to the store).  I assumed the wrapping of the windows driver
> was what was the problem but is there possibly more to it?  When I'm
> back healthy and using my mill again I plan to run CAT5 to the garage
> but if there is something additional I may be able to try?  Would save
> buying a whole 'nother box of cable for this run.
>  
> Greg
> www.distinctperspectives.com

I'd suggest as the easiest way to fix this is to buy a pair of Linksys
WRT54GL's. Set up one as an access point and the other as a client. You
could probably use a directional antenna on each side and shoot through
your walls, saving any wiring. I tend to use these:

http://www.wallacecompany.com/biquad/
http://martybugs.net/wireless/biquad/

With OpenWRT firmware these WRT54GL's (and NSLU2's) become very handy
which seems kind of a waste to run as a simple AP or client, but
everything seems to be priced the same, so why not use them? 

In the past, I've used a sheet of aluminum bent to a parabolic shape
mounted the router so that the stock antenna was at the focus. This
seems to work very well. I had mine outdoors, so I had to occasionally
change the garbage bag protecting them.

Kirk


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Re: [Emc-users] Laptop Pcmcia wireless not working

[Greg Michalski]

Thanks for the suggestion - will keep it in mind.

Greg
www.distinctperspectives.com

  - Original Message - 
  From: Alex Joni 
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
  Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 5:20 PM
  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Laptop Pcmcia wireless not working


  well.. not sure you can do much on 6.06, might want to try a 8.04 livecd, 
  maybe that gets it working..
  Try the stock Ubuntu 8.04 if the emc2 one doesn't do the trick.
  What I would do is get a cheapo access point, and set that up as a client, 
  that way you connect using a regular eth card.

  Regards,
  Alex

  - Original Message - 
  From: Greg Michalski
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
  Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 11:40 PM
  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Laptop Pcmcia wireless not working


  Alex - Similar question - I have a "My Essentials" (aka Belkin) USB b/g 
  adapter that I couldn't get to run on my 6.06 which I abandoned after 
  following several of the different driver wrap guides I found online at the 
  time (before I joined the list and before Christmas 07 - they were onsale 
  cheap 'Black Friday' and I planned to get 2 - one for home and one to float 
  around the office at work since our illustrious neanderthal leader fears 
  connecting the whole office to the internet - different discussion 
  altogether, but there was only one left when I made it to the store).  I 
  assumed the wrapping of the windows driver was what was the problem but is 
  there possibly more to it?  When I'm back healthy and using my mill again I 
  plan to run CAT5 to the garage but if there is something additional I may be 
  able to try?  Would save buying a whole 'nother box of cable for this run.

  Greg
  www.distinctperspectives.com

  - Original Message - 
  From: Alex Joni
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
  Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 4:27 PM
  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Laptop Pcmcia wireless not working


  Some extra drivers don't get installed in the default emc2 install script.
  try installing linux-ubuntu-modules-hardy-rtai
  "sudo apt-get install linux-ubuntu-modules-hardy-rtai" from a terminal 
  should do the trick.
  If that still doesn't make it work, you might also need 
  'linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24-16-rtai'

  Regards,
  Alex

  - Original Message - 
  From: Bryce Johnson
  To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
  Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 10:42 PM
  Subject: [Emc-users] Laptop Pcmcia wireless not working


  I'm just started to use emc and I have cut out just a few things.  I was 
  surprised that it worked fine even though it is a 700mhz 128ram... and a 
  laptop at that.   I had ubuntu 8.04 installed and later ran the script to 
  install emc.


  One thing that is a little annoying.  I have pcmcia wireless card that works 
  fine in regular ubuntu.  But when I run the rtai kernel version that the 
  script generated, my wireless no longer works.  Does the pcmcia or certain 
  wireless drivers get disabled by default in the install?








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Re: [Emc-users] Errors when trying to start EMC2 with Mesa 7i43

[Richard Acosta]

OK, i have reinstalled linux because i could not connect to internet 
using pppoe with ubuntu/emc2 from linuxcnc.org.
Since i know nothing about CVS, and a little bit more about compiling, i 
decided not to take that way.
Finally i achieved to install normal ubuntu, then emc2 and rtai kernel 
using emc2_install.sh from linuxcnc.org and i'm now using 2.2.6


# Install driver.
loadrt hostmot2
loadrt m7i43_hm2 config="firmware=SV8B.BIT num_encoders=1 num_pwmgens=1 
num_stepgens=0"



Using the supposedly correct config, This time, the error is this:


insmod: error inserting 
'/usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai/modules/emc2/hm2_7i43.ko': -1 Unknown 
symbol in module

7i43_motion.hal:4: exit value: 1
7i43_motion.hal:4: insmod failed, returned -1
8355
PID TTY STAT TIME COMMAND
Stopping realtime threads
Unloading hal components


Any ideas?
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[Emc-users] Pentium II and ubuntu

[Tod Spooner]

Hello I have managed to find the cause of the install crash. It seems as though 
the hard drive had several bad sectors
which caused the ubuntu install to fail. To ubuntus credit the install failed 
with style and included an error message
and a return to the live CD desktop.
I now have ubuntu installed and emc2 running on my pentium II 333Mhz machine.
Can ubuntu be pared down to the bare minimum in order to improve latancy?

Cheers

_


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Re: [Emc-users] SMI-Like latency problems that don't respond to rtapi_smi.ko fix

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 28 September 2008, Gene Heskett wrote:

And why are my posts taking a week to get posted, this is Oct 4, 2008, my 74th 
birthday, and I actually sent this on the 28th of Sept., 2008.

Something is busted, big time.

>On Saturday 27 September 2008, Jon Elson wrote:
>>Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> I don't know if this has any bearing or not for you, but I have an nvidia
>>> card on my emc box, and had to switch it to use the vesa driver to get
>>> that under control.  The nvidia binary blob was truly terrible, the nv
>>> driver was better, and the vesa driver was the best.
>>
>>Hmm, probably best to NOT use high-end gaming video boards on a
>>real-time system.
>>I have had a LOT of trouble using stock drivers on nvidia.  Generally, I
>>get outright crashes, screen freezes, and other nasty artifacts, and
>>have to install the nvidia custom driver right away after the install.
>>(For instance, on this machine I am typing on, I had 3 crashes before I
>>got around to doing the nvidia driver install, they all looked like
>>video problems.  After putting in the proprietary driver, it has been
>>stable.  Unstable CNC controls are NOT a good idea!)
>>
>>Jon
>
>It's been exactly the opposite here on this house box Jon.  I was running
> the nvidia card, and their driver, but I had lots of disk corruption that
> required long sessions with e2fsck, and on 2 occasions got the boot drives
> LSN0 wiped clean.  I switched to an ati card and the radeon driver, end of
> problem, but google sketchup won't run on it.  About a month ago I
>reinstalled the nvidia card and its driver using an old, still compatible
>kernel just to see if sketchup would run, and it does, but it took it just
> 11 hours to trash a drive again. e2fscking a 500GB drive is at best a
> boring job.
>
>Obviously I'm back on the ati card.
>
>This mobo may wind up in the emc box at some point, I have a fawncy ASUS
>board, a phenom quad core, 4GB of ram and some newer pci-e cards just
> waiting for me to find my round tuit and build it. :)
>
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-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Beware of geeks bearing graft.

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[Emc-users] terrible latency on older Shuttle + Nvidia GeForce4 Ti 4600

[Gary Fixler]

I haven't been around for awhile (too many other hobbies :), but I've
finally come back and upgraded with the liveCD to 8.04, and I quite like
what I see so far. Installation was a breeze, and everything is set up
nicely. Great work, guys!

I'm on a Sherline mill/lathe system with their driver box, and I'm reading
more thoroughly this time through, trying to get everything right finally. I
had lots of hardware issues back on Dapper that I'm hoping now to eliminate.
This time I reviewed the latency-test stuff until I better understood it.
I'm getting <10k(ns) when surfing the net, opening and moving around
windows, etc., but when I pop open glxgears, it leaps to ~150k+, and if I
maximize and minimize it, it skyrockets to over 300k. I've gotten maxes
right up to almost 400k while playing a somewhat processor heavy Flash game
online, so it would seem I'm in trouble.

The EMC2 manual sort of drops me at that point, and moves on to other
things. Could my GeForce4 Ti 4600 simply be too underpowered? This older
Shuttle is a bit laggy opening windows and maximizing and such, as compared
to the new system I built late last year with a hot new card, which never
slows down for anything. I have run '$ metacity --replace' to make sure I'm
not using Compiz to see if that would help (nope). I've also watched the
system resources in the monitor, and the CPU is always at 100% when I'm in
the latency test - is this expected, or is it not supposed to be maxing my
system out?

Also, the manual seems to imply that there might be something other than
software stepping. Is there hardware stepping? The wording in there is of a
"your computer might not be good enough for software stepping" nature, and I
got the impression that maybe that meant that there was an altnerative that
the manual forgot to come back and talk about. No?

The computer and graphics card were new 6-7 years ago, so they're a bit
older now, but I'm hoping that they're still usable. I'm thinking the
terrible latencies might have been the root of other problems I experienced
back on the Dapper build.

Thanks!
-Gary
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Re: [Emc-users] No version for "nano2count" found

[Jeff Epler]

Евгений Александрович wrote:
> > Hello
> > 
> > I still try to build puppy base system.
> > 
> > Now I have problem on system start
> > 
> > rtapi: No version for "nano2count" found: kernel tained.
> > 
> > Is it problem or just information message?
> > If it is a problem, what could be wrong?

This specific message is a warning, not an error.  It is produced by the
kernel due to the configuration of the kernel and rtai.  There are many
google results for this message message.
http://www.google.com/search?q="no+version+for"+"found+kernel+tainted";

The main consequence of kernel tainting is that the kernel developers
will deprioritize or ignore bug reports that only seem to occur on
tainted kernels.

The reason that this circumstance (kernel has support for "symbol
versions" but a module does not include symbol version information)
taints the kernel is that making modules without symbol versions is
one way to load a module that was intended for a different
(possibly-incompatible) kernel version.

On Thu, Oct 02, 2008 at 08:56:11AM -0400, Kenneth Lerman wrote:
> Why would you want a puppy based system? What advantages does it have 
> for the general user? Why should we support it?

We should not discourage experienced users from running emc on whatever
system they find is advantageous to them, and we should try to avoid
doing technical things that needlessly make it difficult.

Jeff

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Re: [Emc-users] No version for "nano2count" found

[paul_c]

On Thursday 02 October 2008, Евгений Александрович wrote:
> rtapi: No version for "nano2count" found: kernel tained.
>
> Is it problem or just information message?
> If it is a problem, what could be wrong?

It is a compile time problem that is easily solved - What kernel & RTAI 
versions are you using ?



Paul.

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Re: [Emc-users] Pentium II and ubuntu

[Chris Radek]

On Wed, Oct 01, 2008 at 08:50:24PM -0700, Tod Spooner wrote:
> 
> Can ubuntu be pared down to the bare minimum in order to improve latancy?

Removing installed software packages will not change the latency.
Latency is almost entirely a consequence of your hardware.

What are your numbers currently?  They are probably quite fine
anyway.


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Re: [Emc-users] SMI-Like latency problems that don't respond to rtapi_smi.ko fix

[John Kasunich]

Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 28 September 2008, Gene Heskett wrote:
> 
> And why are my posts taking a week to get posted, this is Oct 4, 2008, my 
> 74th 
> birthday, and I actually sent this on the 28th of Sept., 2008.
> 
> Something is busted, big time.

Sourceforge has been doing a bunch of migration from one datacenter to
another.  Mailing lists weren't supposed to be affected, but who knows.

Regards,

John Kasunich

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Re: [Emc-users] Pentium II and ubuntu

[tomp]

Tod,
latency is not in ubuntu or emc
its in hardware that takes control of the system communications
when emc needs to do hear or say something
hth
tomp

Tod Spooner wrote:
> Hello I have managed to find the cause of the install crash. It seems as 
> though the hard drive had several bad sectors
> which caused the ubuntu install to fail. To ubuntus credit the install failed 
> with style and included an error message
> and a return to the live CD desktop.
> I now have ubuntu installed and emc2 running on my pentium II 333Mhz machine.
> Can ubuntu be pared down to the bare minimum in order to improve latancy?
>
> Cheers
>
> _
>
>
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>   


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Re: [Emc-users] terrible latency on older Shuttle + Nvidia GeForce4 Ti 4600

[Dirk]

On 4 okt 2008, at 08:46, Gary Fixler wrote:

> I tried to send a message last night, but it never showed up on the  
> list. I have the worst time getting messages through.
>
> Basically, I'm on an aging Shuttle PC from 2002 with an Nvidia  
> GeForce4 Ti 4600.


If I am not mistaking this came up not too long ago on the list. It is  
the binary nvidia driver that doesn't work very good with the rtai  
kernel. Try using the vesa driver instead.

Dirk

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Re: [Emc-users] Looking for "cmoma" ?

[Kirk Wallace]

On Sun, 2008-09-28 at 15:38 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
> Hello, hate to do this on the list.
> 
> I got a call on my crummy answering machine a couple days ago about my 
> resolver converters from a guy who said his email address was, as best 
> as I could get it, cmoma (at) garlic (dot) com,  and he started to give 
> his phone number as 408- when the answering machine cut him off.  He 
> mentioned EMC.
... snip
> 
> Jon

Just a shot in the dark, but maybe one of these guys?

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?t=163916

Kirk


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[Emc-users] 7i43 after updating to 2.2.6

[Richard Acosta]

OK, i have reinstalled linux because i could not connect to internet 
using pppoe with ubuntu/emc2 downloaded from linuxcnc.org as a full CD 
image.
Since i know nothing about CVS, and a little bit more about compiling, i 
decided not to take that way.
Finally i achieved to install normal ubuntu, then emc2 and rtai kernel 
using emc2_install.sh from linuxcnc.org and i'm now using version 2.2.6


Using the supposedly correct config, This time, the error is this:

--
# Install driver.
loadrt hostmot2
loadrt m7i43_hm2 config="firmware=SV8B.BIT num_encoders=1 num_pwmgens=1
num_stepgens=0"
--
--
insmod: error inserting 
'/usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai/modules/emc2/hm2_7i43.ko': -1 Unknown 
symbol in module

7i43_motion.hal:4: exit value: 1
7i43_motion.hal:4: insmod failed, returned -1
8355
 PID TTY  STAT   TIME COMMAND
Stopping realtime threads
Unloading hal components
--

What's going on here? i'm using the new driver, but the error is 
referred to old driver.


Any ideas?
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Re: [Emc-users] sai folder

[Alex Joni]

sai stands for stand alone interpreter.
It allows build of a stand alone (works by itself) interpreter, which - when 
you interpret a program - only generates a bunch of text lines (canonical 
commands).
It's mostly usefull for debugging, studying the interpreter.

Regards,
Alex

- Original Message - 
From: An Pham Duc
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:18 AM
Subject: [Emc-users] sai folder


I don't understand the role of sai folder in emc2. could you help me show 
what it is?
thank you.




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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1708 - Release Date: 04.10.2008 
11:35 


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Re: [Emc-users] terrible latency on older Shuttle + Nvidia GeForce4 Ti 4600

[Gary Fixler]

Thanks for the info, Gene.

You've got me worried about my 8800GTX in my newest box here :) It's about 8
months old now I guess.

It's definitely using a card, not onboard video, and your suggestions about
the alternate drivers are making a big difference. Thanks!

-g

On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 8:03 AM, Gene Heskett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Saturday 04 October 2008, Gary Fixler wrote:
> >I tried to send a message last night, but it never showed up on the list.
> I
> >have the worst time getting messages through.
> >
> >Basically, I'm on an aging Shuttle PC from 2002 with an Nvidia GeForce4 Ti
> >4600. When I start up latency-test, I'm in the single-digit thousands,
> like
> >6500 or so. If I play around online with Flash things (e.g. the Fantastic
> >Contraption game) it jumps to about 35k(ns) for the base thread jitter. If
> I
> >open glxgears it usually bumps up to 150k+, and if I maximize it, it soars
> >to well over 350k, sometimes almost 400k. The machine does feel laggy -
> slow
> >window redraws when dragging windows - but I'm also used to a much faster
> >machine now.
> >
> >I've searched linuxcnc and google, and read a bunch about latency, PLCs,
> >CAS, et al on Wikipedia, but it's just too much to absorb, and I can't
> >really find targeted debug steps to try. What have you guys done to
> diagnose
> >these problems. What are some steps I can try? The manual was pretty brief
> >about this. Unfortunately, I know absolutely nothing about things like
> >network adapters and BIOS whatnots.
> >
> >This is something that's been following me since the Dapper version. I've
> >just installed the 8.04 version, and it's quite pretty, but I can't get
> past
> >stage 1. Even the configuration wizard won't work right, because with all
> of
> >the values I'm getting, I can't even run the test buttons properly. The
> >motors step about once per second unless I lie heavily in my answers to
> >questions, like max accel and feed rates and such, and I still can't get
> it
> >to move well.
> >
> >Thanks for any help. I'd love more than anything to get this sorted. Lots
> of
> >projects lined up!
> >-Gary
>
> I'm gonna play possum, and go out to the end of a persimmon branch and
> probably saw it off behind me here, but
>
> Does this shuttle have its nvidia video on the main board, sharing the
> system
> memory instead of using its own?
>
> If that is the case, then the first step is an offboard video card in
> either
> an AGP slot if it has one, or the first PCI slot.  And FWIW, I have an
> older
> AGP GForce2 5200/256 nvidia in my machine, and latencies were terrible when
> using the nvidia binary, quite a bit better when using the nv module, and
> much much better when using the fallback if nothing else works 'vesa'
> driver.
> So that is what I'm using.
>
> To do that offboard video, you'll need to disable the onboard video in the
> bios.
>
> And steer clear of later nvidia cards, their soldering alloy and method
> virtually guarantees a failure within a year.
>
> --
> Cheers, Gene
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Life is a yo-yo, and mankind ties knots in the string.
>
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Re: [Emc-users] terrible latency on older Shuttle + Nvidia GeForce4 Ti 4600

[Gary Fixler]

Thanks, Dirk!

Seems the nvidia blob is the culprit, or the biggest one anyway. The nv
driver was a lot better, and vesa better still. Shame I have to deal with
the clunkier graphics and refresh rate now. Maybe we should all start a
letter-writing campaign to Nvidia to open their drivers, or at least fix
this latency nonsense. I'm feeling ready to hit the streets with my sandwich
board :)

-g

On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 2:59 AM, Dirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> On 4 okt 2008, at 08:46, Gary Fixler wrote:
>
> > I tried to send a message last night, but it never showed up on the
> > list. I have the worst time getting messages through.
> >
> > Basically, I'm on an aging Shuttle PC from 2002 with an Nvidia
> > GeForce4 Ti 4600.
>
>
> If I am not mistaking this came up not too long ago on the list. It is
> the binary nvidia driver that doesn't work very good with the rtai
> kernel. Try using the vesa driver instead.
>
> Dirk
>
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Re: [Emc-users] terrible latency on older Shuttle + Nvidia GeForce4 Ti 4600

[Gary Fixler]

Hi John,

I've had several suggestions (one off-list) to drop the nvidia driver
entirely, and it's working. My test steps have been to pop open Firefox,
send it to the Fantastic Contraption game (Flash, and heavy, but fun),
wiggle windows a bit, then open glxgears, wiggle it about, surf for a few
minutes, then maximize glxgears and minimize again.

With the nvidia driver glxgears was pretty fast, latencies were in the high
400k, once even up around 520k (ns). I've since tried the nv driver, and
glxgears is far slower, chugging away, and taking many seconds to maximize,
but the jitter topped off a little over 160k. I'm now trying the vesa
driver, and my worst after all of that is 33.5k. MUCH better, by an order of
magnitude from my first results. I hear that's still not great, but I'm sure
there's still more I can try, like disabling things.

Any suggestions for what I can turn off to squeeze more k's off my max
numbers? I'm sure I'll have to research how to turn each off :)

Thanks!
-g

I had a few suggestions in

On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 8:04 AM, John Kasunich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> Gary Fixler wrote:
> > I tried to send a message last night, but it never showed up on the list.
> I
> > have the worst time getting messages through.
> >
> > Basically, I'm on an aging Shuttle PC from 2002 with an Nvidia GeForce4
> Ti
> > 4600. When I start up latency-test, I'm in the single-digit thousands,
> like
> > 6500 or so. If I play around online with Flash things (e.g. the Fantastic
> > Contraption game) it jumps to about 35k(ns) for the base thread jitter.
> If I
> > open glxgears it usually bumps up to 150k+, and if I maximize it, it
> soars
> > to well over 350k, sometimes almost 400k. The machine does feel laggy -
> slow
> > window redraws when dragging windows - but I'm also used to a much faster
> > machine now.
>
> Severe latency problems when running GLXgears almost always points
> towards hardware graphics acceleration.  Usually the video board
> manufacturer has a proprietary driver which either disables interrupts
> for long periods, or does bus mastering DMA, or something else that
> interferes with the computer doing realtime code.
>
> There are two solutions to that:
>
> 1) use an open-source driver, such as the generic vesa driver, which
> doesn't use hardware acceleration.  Graphics will be slower, but
> realtime performance will improve
>
> 2) switch to a different, perhaps older, graphics card  Many people have
> had success with various Matrox cards
>
> Regards,
>
> John Kasunich
>
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Re: [Emc-users] How does axis communicate with emc?

[Eric H. Johnson]

Alan,

Are you trying to directly send motion commands to EMC or just want to write
your own .NET based custom user interface? If the latter, there are much
easier ways than going through NML.

Regards,
Eric

I am interested in understanding how Axis communicates with emc because I
want to try sending NML messages to emc from a c# application running under
mono (we all have strange interests of one sort or another!!). Can someone
suggest a starting point for me. I am new to linux but have been a
programmer for many years.



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Re: [Emc-users] SMI-Like latency problems that don't respond to rtapi_smi.ko fix

[John Kasunich]

Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 28 September 2008, Gene Heskett wrote:
> 
> And why are my posts taking a week to get posted, this is Oct 4, 2008, my 
> 74th 
> birthday, and I actually sent this on the 28th of Sept., 2008.
> 
> Something is busted, big time.
> 
>

Yep.  I found this on their site status page:
http://sourceforge.net/community/forum/topic.php?id=3659&page

Apparently mail has been piling up since 9/23, something like 54,000
messages.

Regards,

John Kasunich

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Re: [Emc-users] SMI-Like latency problems that don't respond to rtapi_smi.ko fix

[tomp]

happy birthday Gene !


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Re: [Emc-users] terrible latency on older Shuttle + Nvidia GeForce4 Ti 4600

[Gary Fixler]

A bit more success...

I went into the Services under the Admin menu and turned off:

Actions scheduler (anacron)
Actions scheduler (atd)
Audio settings management (alsa-utils) - I think this one had been off
Bluetooth device management (bluetooth)
Computer activity logger (klogd)
Computer activity logger (sysklogd)
Power management (acpid)
Power management (apmd)
Printer service (cupsys)

I then restarted, though I'm not sure if it was necessary. My worst times
have dropped from the 33.5k range down to so far a max of 24.4.

Am I getting close to a useful value yet?
-Gary

On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Gary Fixler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> I've had several suggestions (one off-list) to drop the nvidia driver
> entirely, and it's working. My test steps have been to pop open Firefox,
> send it to the Fantastic Contraption game (Flash, and heavy, but fun),
> wiggle windows a bit, then open glxgears, wiggle it about, surf for a few
> minutes, then maximize glxgears and minimize again.
>
> With the nvidia driver glxgears was pretty fast, latencies were in the high
> 400k, once even up around 520k (ns). I've since tried the nv driver, and
> glxgears is far slower, chugging away, and taking many seconds to maximize,
> but the jitter topped off a little over 160k. I'm now trying the vesa
> driver, and my worst after all of that is 33.5k. MUCH better, by an order of
> magnitude from my first results. I hear that's still not great, but I'm sure
> there's still more I can try, like disabling things.
>
> Any suggestions for what I can turn off to squeeze more k's off my max
> numbers? I'm sure I'll have to research how to turn each off :)
>
> Thanks!
> -g
>
> I had a few suggestions in
>
> On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 8:04 AM, John Kasunich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
>> Gary Fixler wrote:
>> > I tried to send a message last night, but it never showed up on the
>> list. I
>> > have the worst time getting messages through.
>> >
>> > Basically, I'm on an aging Shuttle PC from 2002 with an Nvidia GeForce4
>> Ti
>> > 4600. When I start up latency-test, I'm in the single-digit thousands,
>> like
>> > 6500 or so. If I play around online with Flash things (e.g. the
>> Fantastic
>> > Contraption game) it jumps to about 35k(ns) for the base thread jitter.
>> If I
>> > open glxgears it usually bumps up to 150k+, and if I maximize it, it
>> soars
>> > to well over 350k, sometimes almost 400k. The machine does feel laggy -
>> slow
>> > window redraws when dragging windows - but I'm also used to a much
>> faster
>> > machine now.
>>
>> Severe latency problems when running GLXgears almost always points
>> towards hardware graphics acceleration.  Usually the video board
>> manufacturer has a proprietary driver which either disables interrupts
>> for long periods, or does bus mastering DMA, or something else that
>> interferes with the computer doing realtime code.
>>
>> There are two solutions to that:
>>
>> 1) use an open-source driver, such as the generic vesa driver, which
>> doesn't use hardware acceleration.  Graphics will be slower, but
>> realtime performance will improve
>>
>> 2) switch to a different, perhaps older, graphics card  Many people have
>> had success with various Matrox cards
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> John Kasunich
>>
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Re: [Emc-users] SMI-Like latency problems that don't respond to rtapi_smi.ko fix

[Jon Elson]

Gene Heskett wrote:
> It's been exactly the opposite here on this house box Jon.
Well, interesting.  This computer has an Nvidia MX440 AGP graphics 
board, maybe that makes a difference.  Certainly no disk corruption 
going on.  I run VMware and Windows 2000 Pro on the same system 
simultaneously, and don't try to run RT or EMC on it.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] terrible latency on older Shuttle + Nvidia GeForce4 Ti 4600

[Ray Henry]

On Sat, 2008-10-04 at 17:49 -0700, Gary Fixler wrote:

> Am I getting close to a useful value yet?
> -Gary
oops

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test





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Re: [Emc-users] terrible latency on older Shuttle + Nvidia GeForce4 Ti 4600

[Ray Henry]

On Sat, 2008-10-04 at 17:49 -0700, Gary Fixler wrote:

> 
> Am I getting close to a useful value yet?
> -Gary

Try this for comparisons.

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TestedHardware





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[Emc-users] Could my GeForce4 Ti 4600 simply be too underpowered?

[Greg Bentzinger]

Gary;

Your GeForce4 Ti 4600 is not underpowered, its Overpowered with propreitary 
hardware accel. This is a gamers card - it RELIES on having the graphics data 
filtered/modified by the CPU using DX8. Without that preprocessing its kinda 
lost.

Nvidia won't release parts of there driver specs as open source so you can only 
use there provided driver as is ( not realtime friendly ) or the linux generic 
VESA driver which is likely your best bet.

I get great latency times with a Nvidia Vanta TNT2 16mb card - Overkill is 
useless without proper driver support. If I tried using my 8800GT 1GB card the 
results would likely be worse.

Thats my 5 cents worth ( 2 cents adjusted for inflation and the current 
devaluation of the dollar.)

Greg B.

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Re: [Emc-users] terrible latency on older Shuttle + Nvidia GeForce4 Ti 4600

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 04 October 2008, Gary Fixler wrote:
>Thanks for the info, Gene.
>
>You've got me worried about my 8800GTX in my newest box here :) It's about 8
>months old now I guess.

I believe, but could be wrong, that that is one of the ones involved in the 
class action suits being filed.  There is a recall afoot too I believe.

>It's definitely using a card, not onboard video, and your suggestions about
>the alternate drivers are making a big difference. Thanks!
>
>-g
>
>On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 8:03 AM, Gene Heskett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Saturday 04 October 2008, Gary Fixler wrote:
>> >I tried to send a message last night, but it never showed up on the list.
>>
>> I
>>
>> >have the worst time getting messages through.
>> >
There is an echo in here. :)  It may show up eventually, a week down the log.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
The shortest distance between any two puns is a straight line.

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Re: [Emc-users] SMI-Like latency problems that don't respond to rtapi_smi.ko fix

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 04 October 2008, tomp wrote:
>happy birthday Gene !
>
Thanks Tomp, I obviously appreciate every one of them I get.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
As I currently don't have a floppy drive in my computer, I'd like to
make an `emergency cdrom' ;)
-- Eugene Crosser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: [Emc-users] SMI-Like latency problems that don't respond to rtapi_smi.ko fix

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 04 October 2008, Jon Elson wrote:
>Gene Heskett wrote:
>> It's been exactly the opposite here on this house box Jon.
>
>Well, interesting.  This computer has an Nvidia MX440 AGP graphics
>board, maybe that makes a difference.  Certainly no disk corruption
>going on.  I run VMware and Windows 2000 Pro on the same system
>simultaneously, and don't try to run RT or EMC on it.
>
>Jon

I haven't run emc on this box ever, other than in an exported x session from 
the shop's box.  I just put some new guts in this one, so maybe now I have 
the horsepower to play with some of the VMware stuff.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Avert misunderstanding by calm, poise, and balance.

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Re: [Emc-users] SMI-Like latency problems that don't respond to rtapi_smi.ko fix

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 04 October 2008, John Kasunich wrote:
>Gene Heskett wrote:
>> On Sunday 28 September 2008, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>
>> And why are my posts taking a week to get posted, this is Oct 4, 2008, my
>> 74th birthday, and I actually sent this on the 28th of Sept., 2008.
>>
>> Something is busted, big time.
>
>Yep.  I found this on their site status page:
>http://sourceforge.net/community/forum/topic.php?id=3659&page
>
>Apparently mail has been piling up since 9/23, something like 54,000
>messages.
>
Good grief John...  What I see when I sort by order of arrival tends to 
confirm that.  I didn't read the thread pointer above, was there any finger 
pointing?  Or a hardware foobar?

>Regards,
>
>John Kasunich
>
>-
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-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Avert misunderstanding by calm, poise, and balance.

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Re: [Emc-users] terrible latency on older Shuttle + Nvidia GeForce4 Ti 4600

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 04 October 2008, Gene Heskett wrote:
>On Saturday 04 October 2008, Gary Fixler wrote:
>>Thanks for the info, Gene.
>>
>>You've got me worried about my 8800GTX in my newest box here :) It's about
>> 8 months old now I guess.
>
>I believe, but could be wrong, that that is one of the ones involved in the
>class action suits being filed.  There is a recall afoot too I believe.
>
>>It's definitely using a card, not onboard video, and your suggestions about
>>the alternate drivers are making a big difference. Thanks!
>>
>>-g
>>
>>On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 8:03 AM, Gene Heskett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> On Saturday 04 October 2008, Gary Fixler wrote:
>>> >I tried to send a message last night, but it never showed up on the
>>> > list.
>>>
>>> I
>>>
>>> >have the worst time getting messages through.
>
>There is an echo in here. :)  It may show up eventually, a week down the
> log.

And it must be fixed, this one was back in my inbox in 2 minutes max.  My 
complements to the chef who cooked up the fix.

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
As I currently don't have a floppy drive in my computer, I'd like to
make an `emergency cdrom' ;)
-- Eugene Crosser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: [Emc-users] terrible latency on older Shuttle + Nvidia GeForce4 Ti 4600

[Gary Fixler]

Oops, indeed. I'd already found that last night, but forgot all about it
today. Thanks!

-g

On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 6:09 PM, Ray Henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sat, 2008-10-04 at 17:49 -0700, Gary Fixler wrote:
>
> > Am I getting close to a useful value yet?
> > -Gary
> oops
>
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Latency-Test
>
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Re: [Emc-users] 7i43 after updating to 2.2.6

[Sebastian Kuzminsky]

Richard Acosta wrote:
> OK, i have reinstalled linux because i could not connect to internet 
> using pppoe with ubuntu/emc2 downloaded from linuxcnc.org as a full CD 
> image.
> Since i know nothing about CVS, and a little bit more about compiling, i 
> decided not to take that way.
> Finally i achieved to install normal ubuntu, then emc2 and rtai kernel 
> using emc2_install.sh from linuxcnc.org and i'm now using version 2.2.6

The hostmot2 support in 2.2.6 has several known bugs.  We can help you 
get the 2.2.6 module to load, but it probably won't work right for you. 
  To run your machine with the 7i43 you'll have to compile TRUNK from 
CVS, or wait for 2.2.7 (or 2.3.0, or whatever the next version will be).


> Using the supposedly correct config, This time, the error is this:
> 
> --
>  
> 
> # Install driver.
> loadrt hostmot2
> loadrt m7i43_hm2 config="firmware=SV8B.BIT num_encoders=1 num_pwmgens=1
> num_stepgens=0"
> --
>  
> 
> --
>  
> 
> insmod: error inserting 
> '/usr/realtime-2.6.24-16-rtai/modules/emc2/hm2_7i43.ko': -1 Unknown 
> symbol in module
> 7i43_motion.hal:4: exit value: 1
> 7i43_motion.hal:4: insmod failed, returned -1
> 8355
>  PID TTY  STAT   TIME COMMAND
> Stopping realtime threads
> Unloading hal components
> --
>  
> 
> 
> What's going on here? i'm using the new driver, but the error is 
> referred to old driver.

Something's confused here.  The halcmd commands you show above load the 
wrong driver (m7i43_hm2), but the error messages are from the correct 
driver (hm2_7i43).  We need to know the commands that generate those 
error messages, and they're definately not the commands you show.

Start with a clean reboot of your EMC computer, then get to the point 
where those error messages are generated, then run "dmesg" from the 
shell and pastebin all the dmesg output (eg on www.pastebin.ca).  Also 
pastebin the ini files and HAL command files that you tried to run.

Without seeing all this it'd be really hard to figure out what's going on.


-- 
Sebastian Kuzminsky
Distances obtained as the speed of light multiplied by a cosmological
time interval have no direct physical significance.


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Re: [Emc-users] SMI-Like latency problems that don't respond to rtapi_smi.ko fix

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 04 October 2008, John Kasunich wrote:
>Gene Heskett wrote:
>> On Sunday 28 September 2008, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>
>> And why are my posts taking a week to get posted, this is Oct 4, 2008, my
>> 74th birthday, and I actually sent this on the 28th of Sept., 2008.
>>
>> Something is busted, big time.
>
>Sourceforge has been doing a bunch of migration from one datacenter to
>another.  Mailing lists weren't supposed to be affected, but who knows.
>
>Regards,
>
>John Kasunich

I wonder how many times they have 'migrated' the list, cuz it seems like these 
lags are a regular occurrance(sp?).

-- 
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Q:  What do you call a principal female opera singer whose high C
is lower than those of other principal female opera singers?
A:  A deep C diva.

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