Re: [Emc-users] Turning spindle off

[Don Stanley]

Farzin;
Have you considered using the Pause button (in Axis Display) instead of
Stop.
Also you could retract the tool from the workpiece in the G code before
Stopping
the program.

Hope this helps
Don

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 1:05 AM, Farzin Kamangar
wrote:

> Dear EMC users,
> I was asked to make the following change in the controller behaviour.
> As you know when we want to stop the running program and we push the stop
> program button, program stops and
> so does spindle from turning. Now the request is: when we stop the program
> by pressing the stop program button, we want the spindle to keep on turning
> if it was turning before pressing the
> stop program button. What do you think? This is because they do not want
> the
> tool in spindle to get stuck in the workpiece when we stop the program. We
> stop spindle by pressing spindle
> off button or by entering M5 in MDI later. Thanks
> Farzin
>
> --
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[Emc-users] Turning spindle off

[Farzin Kamangar]

Dear EMC users,
 I was asked to make the following change in the controller behaviour.
As you know when we want to stop the running program and we push the stop
program button, program stops and
so does spindle from turning. Now the request is: when we stop the program
by pressing the stop program button, we want the spindle to keep on turning
if it was turning before pressing the
stop program button. What do you think? This is because they do not want the
tool in spindle to get stuck in the workpiece when we stop the program. We
stop spindle by pressing spindle
off button or by entering M5 in MDI later. Thanks
Farzin
--
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Re: [Emc-users] Map Network drive

[Yi-Shin Li]

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 6:42 AM, Doug  wrote:

> What is the best way to have emc find files on a local network server?   It
> seems only local folders show up in the drop down box.   I have mounted on
> the desktop a linked drive to find but have to do that every time the
> machine starts.   I would like not to have to do this.
>
> If you are about to mount network folders shared by Windows machine or NAS,
you may refer to the following two guides:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MountWindowsSharesPermanently
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=280473

Yishin
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[Emc-users] any way to hide gcode pane at bottom of axis? how about rapids?

[forget color]

I'm using EMC2 solely via the telnet interface, so my gcode pane at
the bottom of axis is empty and unused.  It would be great to have the
extra space for the plot area.  Is there any way to remove/hide this
portion of the interface?

I'm also wondering if there's a way to not show the cyan rapid plots,
leaving just the reddish ones from G1 and G02/G03 moves?

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Re: [Emc-users] Modbus TCP/IP response time [orig: EMC2 and Ethernet]

[Yi-Shin Li]

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 3:12 AM, Joachim Franek wrote:

> Have a look to:
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?FPGA
> and today I have written
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?ARM
>
> Joachim
>
> Nice Work !
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Re: [Emc-users] CHNC Help on Forum

[Matthew Ireland]

That's a no. I left it open for over an hour, zoomed in at my neighborhood.

This is not too handy. I don't care about the stupid map, I need to not be
the only corporeal EMC user in my known universe.  I have a lot of energy
for this stuff but it is flippin depressing when it only makes my a social
pariah.

Anyone near me should drop me a line.

On Feb 16, 2011 5:03 PM, "Gary Corlew"  wrote:
>
> The map did not work for me until I started zooming in then the flags
> started to work, So you may want to try that
>
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Re: [Emc-users] CHNC Help on Forum

[Gary Corlew]

The map did not work for me until I started zooming in then the flags
started to work, So you may want to try that

-Original Message-
From: Matthew Ireland [mailto:wyeh...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 1:44 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CHNC Help on Forum
Honestly, if there are any EMC users within50 miles of sacramento, I need
friends to play with. EMC user map hasn't worked for me in about 2 years. I
am the only linux user I know... simple stuff escapes me sometimes.

I have a lot to give back. I owe it to Radek to help this guy so he doesn't
have to walk another newbie through the basics.

Any users in my area area urged to contact me. I am an EMC success story and
I really want to compare notes.
On Feb 16, 2011 10:31 AM, "Matthew Ireland"  wrote:
> I wrote a nice informative email to the original poster but it got
bounced.
> I am happy to help ... I hope someone will put him in touch with me.
> On Feb 14, 2011 12:13 PM, "dave"  wrote:
>> On Sat, 2011-02-12 at 12:08 -0600, John Thornton wrote:
>>> Those are some odd drives on that CHNC, GE HiAk. Normally the CHNC comes
>>> with Semens (which I have) or Fanuc AFAIK.
>>>
>>> So the real question is anyone familiar with the GE HiAk drives enough
>>> to wire one up?
>>>
>>> John
>> IIRC HiAk drives are 1970's technology and a very early pwm. I gave my
>> drives and the schematic to one of the service people that is on this
>> list. Maybe he will pipe up and offer to copy the basics of the
>> manual. :-)
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>>
>>> Kirk Wallace wrote:
>>> > For those with CHNC's, you may be able to help with this:
>>> >
>>> >
>
http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/cati
d,30/id,7113/lang,english/#7159
>>> > Short URL: http://alturl.com/uama6
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>

--
>>> The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio
XE:
>>> Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
>>> Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
>>> Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
>>> ___
>>> Emc-users mailing list
>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>>
>>
>

--
>> The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
>> Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
>> Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
>> Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
>> ___
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>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders with no Index

[Steve Blackmore]

On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 23:05:21 +0200, you wrote:

>On 16 February 2011 19:28, Igor Chudov  wrote:
>
>> Which brings up a question, can one tap with a plug tap first, on a CNC mill
>> that is equipped for rigid tapping?
>
>Probably, but one flute of one thread cuts the whole thread. With a
>taper tap the work is shared over several teeth and flutes.
>
>Machine taps are somewhere in the middle, not needing the
>self-aligning taper of a hand tap, but not threading right to the
>bottom like a plug tap either.

There are predominantly two types of machine taps. 

For through holes there are spiral point taps, very much like a
conventional hand "second" tap.

For blind holes use spiral flute taps. They don't thread all the way to
the bottom, but not far off - certainly better than some of the hand
plug taps I have with pointed ends!

Here's a link with a picture of both types on one page

http://www.cutweltools.co.uk/files/ww/BSP%20Spiral%20Flute%20&%20Spiral%20Point.pdf

As for using hand plug taps for machine tapping - I wouldn't, they have
a nasty habit of snapping off in the hole! 

My spark eroder has earned some good money because of that - it cost's
far more than the price of a machine tap to remove a broken one from a
blind hole ;)

Steve Blackmore
--

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Re: [Emc-users] User Map - CHNC Help on Forum

[Kirk Wallace]

On Wed, 2011-02-16 at 15:18 -0800, Matthew Ireland wrote:
> If there are 2 others in fair oaks, I need to meet them. I have wasted far
> too much time trying to work alone.
> 
> I have a very good manual shop in my garage, plus enough tooling to rebuild
> civilization. Somebody will get quite a boost if they manage to find me.

The last time I was up in the Sacramento area was when I got my Shizuoka
mill from a guy in Shingle Springs, 2.5 hours up, 6 hours and 3500lbs
back. Looks like that was two years ago.
-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] User Map - CHNC Help on Forum

[Matthew Ireland]

If there are 2 others in fair oaks, I need to meet them. I have wasted far
too much time trying to work alone.

I have a very good manual shop in my garage, plus enough tooling to rebuild
civilization. Somebody will get quite a boost if they manage to find me.
--
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Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders x 2

[Kim Kirwan]

Yes, this can be done and Stuart (for one) has done it. 

See the wiki "Combining Two Feedback Devices On One Axis"
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Combining_Two_Feedback_Devices_On_One_Axis

Thanks, 

Kim


On 02/16/2011 03:21 PM, Marshland Engineering wrote:
> I'm not sure if this can be done but I do have it on my existing mill.
> 
> It has servo drives with encoders but it also has encoders on the table. This 
> obviously gets rid of backlash. (I have to say it is very accurate mill)
> 
> Has anyone done something like this ?
> 
> Thanks Wallace
> 
> 
> 
> --
> The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
> Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
> Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
> Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 


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Re: [Emc-users] Map Network drive

[Igor Chudov]

Go all the way up to the root folder and down from there. you can type
"mount" in terminal to see what is mounted where.

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 4:42 PM, Doug  wrote:

> What is the best way to have emc find files on a local network server?   It
> seems only local folders show up in the drop down box.   I have mounted on
> the desktop a linked drive to find but have to do that every time the
> machine starts.   I would like not to have to do this.
>
> Doug
>
>
>
> --
> The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
> Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
> Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
> Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Map Network drive

[Doug]

What is the best way to have emc find files on a local network server?   It
seems only local folders show up in the drop down box.   I have mounted on
the desktop a linked drive to find but have to do that every time the
machine starts.   I would like not to have to do this.

Doug


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[Emc-users] Encoders x 2

[Marshland Engineering]

I'm not sure if this can be done but I do have it on my existing mill.

It has servo drives with encoders but it also has encoders on the table. This 
obviously gets rid of backlash. (I have to say it is very accurate mill)

Has anyone done something like this ?

Thanks Wallace



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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders with no Index

[andy pugh]

On 16 February 2011 19:28, Igor Chudov  wrote:

> Which brings up a question, can one tap with a plug tap first, on a CNC mill
> that is equipped for rigid tapping?

Probably, but one flute of one thread cuts the whole thread. With a
taper tap the work is shared over several teeth and flutes.

Machine taps are somewhere in the middle, not needing the
self-aligning taper of a hand tap, but not threading right to the
bottom like a plug tap either.

-- 
atp
"Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"

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Re: [Emc-users] User Map - CHNC Help on Forum

[andy pugh]

On 16 February 2011 21:24, Kirk Wallace  wrote:

> I assumed the map wasn't working for me because my java is broken, but I
> guess I'm not the only one. Another thing I noticed from back when it

It works for me, but it does take a long time to load the pointers.

You are one of the closest, but there are two other users in Fair Oaks
and Folsom. But that is no guarantee that they know usefully more than
the OP about servo tuning.

-- 
atp
"Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"

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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders with no Index

[Stuart Stevenson]

> Wow did we misunderstand.
>

yes definitely


>
> I don't think it would be very successful to use a bottoming/plug tap
> as the first and only tap (whether on a mill or by hand) - if you try
> it, let us know!
>

depends on the material and tap depth and percentage of thread (tap drill
diameter) etc

considered answer - yes but not often

Stuart

-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders with no Index

[Chris Radek]

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 02:21:40PM -0600, Igor Chudov wrote:

> Guys, my question was not about re-entering tapped holes. It is about
> tapping a hole with a plug tap as one, first and only tapping operation, in
> a CNC mill equipped for tapping. Would that work, mechanically?

Wow did we misunderstand.

I don't think it would be very successful to use a bottoming/plug tap
as the first and only tap (whether on a mill or by hand) - if you try
it, let us know!

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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders with no Index

[Igor Chudov]

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Chris Radek  wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 02:04:45PM -0600, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
>
> > that would be tricky - maybe an optical comparator to make sure the helix
> > is in the proper orientation.
> > interesting
> > Stuart
>
>
> Yes - it would work fine - "all" you have to do is get the two taps in
> the holders oriented the same way.  Seems like you could do it
> optically or with some clever fixture.
>
>
Guys, my question was not about re-entering tapped holes. It is about
tapping a hole with a plug tap as one, first and only tapping operation, in
a CNC mill equipped for tapping. Would that work, mechanically?


> If you have something matching your spindle taper that can sit upright
> on a surface plate, a height gauge, and a piece of material with a
> good matching thread in it, it seems like you could get the taps
> aligned pretty easily.
>
> Collets would be harder than set screw holders, because they'd pull in
> when you tighten them.
>
>
> --
> The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
> Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
> Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders with no Index

[Chris Radek]

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 02:04:45PM -0600, Stuart Stevenson wrote:

> that would be tricky - maybe an optical comparator to make sure the helix
> is in the proper orientation.
> interesting
> Stuart


Yes - it would work fine - "all" you have to do is get the two taps in
the holders oriented the same way.  Seems like you could do it
optically or with some clever fixture.

If you have something matching your spindle taper that can sit upright
on a surface plate, a height gauge, and a piece of material with a
good matching thread in it, it seems like you could get the taps
aligned pretty easily.

Collets would be harder than set screw holders, because they'd pull in
when you tighten them.

--
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders with no Index

[Igor Chudov]

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 2:04 PM, Stuart Stevenson  wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Igor Chudov  wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Rigid tapping will always need two pins to sense direction, but unless
> > > people do multi-pass tapping (and I guess they might, with taper,
> > > second and plug (yikes!)) the index serves only to start the cycle so
> > > should be perfectly safe to derive synthetically.
> > >
> > >
> > Which brings up a question, can one tap with a plug tap first, on a CNC
> > mill
> > that is equipped for rigid tapping?
> >
> > that would be tricky - maybe an optical comparator to make sure the helix
> is in the proper orientation.
> interesting
> Stuart
>

Stuart, what I mean is this:

1) Drill a hole for tapping
2) Tap with a plug tap

Is that possible with a CNC mill equipped for rigid tapping? (like mine)?

>
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders with no Index

[Stuart Stevenson]

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Igor Chudov  wrote:

> >
> > Rigid tapping will always need two pins to sense direction, but unless
> > people do multi-pass tapping (and I guess they might, with taper,
> > second and plug (yikes!)) the index serves only to start the cycle so
> > should be perfectly safe to derive synthetically.
> >
> >
> Which brings up a question, can one tap with a plug tap first, on a CNC
> mill
> that is equipped for rigid tapping?
>
> that would be tricky - maybe an optical comparator to make sure the helix
is in the proper orientation.
interesting
Stuart

dos centavos
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Re: [Emc-users] CHNC Help on Forum

[Igor Chudov]

I need new friends in Chicagoland!

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Kirk Wallace
wrote:

> On Wed, 2011-02-16 at 10:43 -0800, Matthew Ireland wrote:
> > Honestly, if there are any EMC users within50 miles of sacramento, I need
> > friends to play with.
> ... snip
>
> Maybe we need a Left Coast (USA) Fest?
> --
> Kirk Wallace
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
> California, USA
>
>
>
> --
> The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
> Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
> Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
> Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] First tests

[Steve Blackmore]

On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 09:57:02 -0500, you wrote:

>Hello, Steve,
>
>I am a shop noobie so please excuse simple questions.
>
>On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 5:25 AM, Steve Blackmore  wrote:
>
>>
>> 25 passes seems high though for that pitch? In 86xx steel I do 5 passes
>> for 1mm pitch, 10 for 1.5 and 15 for 2mm (all plus 2 spring passes).
>>
>
>What are spring passes?

You run the last pass or two at the same depth. It allows for any
deflection of the stock, tool or machine. No matter how rigid your
machine is it always seems to take a little more off. 

>>
>> If I let CAM calculate the passes on removal rate for insert it's much
>> less, it will try and do a 2mm pitch in 7 passes. I can do that but need
>> the coolant on, back to the no covers or guards problem.
>>
>
>Do you have to take covers off when you run coolant?  I thought that the
>main purpose of covers is to contain spraying coolant  and flying swarf :)

No - the covers are off because it is a development machine and being
modified from time to time. It is still usable though :)

Steve Blackmore
--

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Re: [Emc-users] Modbus TCP/IP response time [orig: EMC2 and Ethernet]

[Joachim Franek]

On Wednesday 16 February 2011 07:22:21 John L. Craddock wrote:
> If someone with
> the know-how could port the slave functions of RTnet to something like a
> NXP LPC1768 see
> http://www.littlebirdelectronics.com/products/mbed-%252d-LPC1768-Developme
> nt-Board.html then it is possible that a 200us cycle time could be achieved
> on 128 bits of IO on a fast ethernet connection pretty cheaply with the
> bonus of 300 feet transmission limit without a hub. Altenatively, porting
> to Ralph Stirling's setup might also be possible. Just my thoughts after a
> bit of research. Although I don't have the grey matter to do it myself.
> Regards
> John C

Have a look to:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?FPGA
and today I have written
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?ARM

Joachim

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Re: [Emc-users] CHNC Help on Forum

[Kirk Wallace]

On Wed, 2011-02-16 at 10:43 -0800, Matthew Ireland wrote:
> Honestly, if there are any EMC users within50 miles of sacramento, I need
> friends to play with.
... snip

Maybe we need a Left Coast (USA) Fest?
-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] User Map - CHNC Help on Forum

[Kirk Wallace]

On Wed, 2011-02-16 at 10:43 -0800, Matthew Ireland wrote:
> Honestly, if there are any EMC users within50 miles of sacramento, I need
> friends to play with. EMC user map hasn't worked for me in about 2 years. I
> am the only linux user I know... simple stuff escapes me sometimes.
... snip

I assumed the map wasn't working for me because my java is broken, but I
guess I'm not the only one. Another thing I noticed from back when it
was working was that the screen took a long time to come up. The app may
just be overloaded.

-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] CHNC Help on Forum

[Matthew Ireland]

Honestly, if there are any EMC users within50 miles of sacramento, I need
friends to play with. EMC user map hasn't worked for me in about 2 years. I
am the only linux user I know... simple stuff escapes me sometimes.

I have a lot to give back. I owe it to Radek to help this guy so he doesn't
have to walk another newbie through the basics.

Any users in my area area urged to contact me. I am an EMC success story and
I really want to compare notes.
On Feb 16, 2011 10:31 AM, "Matthew Ireland"  wrote:
> I wrote a nice informative email to the original poster but it got
bounced.
> I am happy to help ... I hope someone will put him in touch with me.
> On Feb 14, 2011 12:13 PM, "dave"  wrote:
>> On Sat, 2011-02-12 at 12:08 -0600, John Thornton wrote:
>>> Those are some odd drives on that CHNC, GE HiAk. Normally the CHNC comes
>>> with Semens (which I have) or Fanuc AFAIK.
>>>
>>> So the real question is anyone familiar with the GE HiAk drives enough
>>> to wire one up?
>>>
>>> John
>> IIRC HiAk drives are 1970's technology and a very early pwm. I gave my
>> drives and the schematic to one of the service people that is on this
>> list. Maybe he will pipe up and offer to copy the basics of the
>> manual. :-)
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>>
>>> Kirk Wallace wrote:
>>> > For those with CHNC's, you may be able to help with this:
>>> >
>>> >
>
http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,30/id,7113/lang,english/#7159
>>> > Short URL: http://alturl.com/uama6
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>
--
>>> The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio
XE:
>>> Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
>>> Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
>>> Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
>>> ___
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>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>>
>>
>
--
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>> Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
>> Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
>> Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders with no Index

[Dave Caroline]

Someone reading on a parport near/above to max speed could miss a
pulse and not know.
Shouldnt be doing that but
Even with a pulse over speed just gives you a drunk thread no error condition.

I cant think how one would set the offsets for a set of
plug/middle/taper taps as they wont be consistently on the same helix,
a measuring nightmare, use machine taps as they are designed for a
single tap to do the work and have the correct swarf clearance flutes
for cnc work.


Dave Caroline

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 5:21 PM, andy pugh  wrote:
> Is there any reason why it would be a bad idea to derive an index
> pulse in software? I am thinking about situations where folk are short
> of P-port pins but want to tap/thread etc.
> You can do lathe threading with one pulse per rev and a single pin,
> but I can't help feeling that multiple pulses and a software-derived
> index would work better (whether is is done with modulo division
> cobbled together with HAL functions, a custom component, or even a mod
> to the existing encoder counter)
>
> Rigid tapping will always need two pins to sense direction, but unless
> people do multi-pass tapping (and I guess they might, with taper,
> second and plug (yikes!)) the index serves only to start the cycle so
> should be perfectly safe to derive synthetically.
>
> --
> atp
> "Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"
>
> --
> The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
> Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
> Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
> Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
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>

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Re: [Emc-users] CHNC Help on Forum

[Matthew Ireland]

I wrote a nice informative email to the original poster but it got bounced.
I am happy to help ... I hope someone will put him in touch with me.
On Feb 14, 2011 12:13 PM, "dave"  wrote:
> On Sat, 2011-02-12 at 12:08 -0600, John Thornton wrote:
>> Those are some odd drives on that CHNC, GE HiAk. Normally the CHNC comes
>> with Semens (which I have) or Fanuc AFAIK.
>>
>> So the real question is anyone familiar with the GE HiAk drives enough
>> to wire one up?
>>
>> John
> IIRC HiAk drives are 1970's technology and a very early pwm. I gave my
> drives and the schematic to one of the service people that is on this
> list. Maybe he will pipe up and offer to copy the basics of the
> manual. :-)
>
> Dave
>
>>
>> Kirk Wallace wrote:
>> > For those with CHNC's, you may be able to help with this:
>> >
>> >
http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,30/id,7113/lang,english/#7159
>> > Short URL: http://alturl.com/uama6
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
--
>> The ultimate all-in-one performance toolkit: Intel(R) Parallel Studio XE:
>> Pinpoint memory and threading errors before they happen.
>> Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
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>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-dev2devfeb
>> ___
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
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> Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
> Locate bottlenecks in serial and parallel code that limit performance.
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Re: [Emc-users] Modbus TCP/IP response time [orig: EMC2 and Ethernet]

[Kirk Wallace]

On Wed, 2011-02-16 at 11:18 -0600, Jon Elson wrote:
> John L. Craddock wrote:
> >   
> >  The most common way of establishing real time determinism is to
> eliminate the collisions inherent in ethernet. This is done by
> establising a master / slave strategy with the master calling the 
... snip
> as there is ONE master and one or several slaves.
> But, the slaves would never initiate a transfer.  If the master were
> set to address each slave and wait for the response before addressing 
... snip

(a little bit of a rant)
I'm not sure fixating on Ethernet (and USB, and laptops, and ...) is the
most efficient way to approach this. When you peel away all of the fluff
in Ethernet (or any other buzzword automation protocol), I suspect
you'll get something like SPI or I2C. I tend to agree with Jon, in that
you should have one master, that slaves can pull information from by
either a broadcast or point to point. If I were King of the World, I
would set up a broadcast of a sequence of bytes, lets say 0 to 100. 0
would always be something like X velocity, 1 = Y velocity, etcetera.
This would be a synchronous steam and each slave could pull the data
that applies to their function. The only issues are to have enough
bandwidth and broadcast in real-time. I believe this is the way that the
parallel port FPGA controllers work (but too many wires), and similar to
Modbus (but too slow). SPI hardware is cheap enough even in custom DIY
form, to compete with the economy-of-scale cost of Ethernet.

Write the spec first then, see what technology fits. With open source
one can invent whatever standard you want (EMC2bus?), so one doesn't
need to follow anyone else's lead, including mine of course.
-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders with no Index

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 16 Feb 2011, andy pugh wrote:

> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 19:21:01 +0200
> From: andy pugh 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: [Emc-users] Encoders with no Index
> 
> Is there any reason why it would be a bad idea to derive an index
> pulse in software? I am thinking about situations where folk are short
> of P-port pins but want to tap/thread etc.
> You can do lathe threading with one pulse per rev and a single pin,
> but I can't help feeling that multiple pulses and a software-derived
> index would work better (whether is is done with modulo division
> cobbled together with HAL functions, a custom component, or even a mod
> to the existing encoder counter)
>
> Rigid tapping will always need two pins to sense direction, but unless
> people do multi-pass tapping (and I guess they might, with taper,
> second and plug (yikes!)) the index serves only to start the cycle so
> should be perfectly safe to derive synthetically.
>
> -- 
> atp
> "Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"
>

Seems reasonable to me, no help for spindle orient but fine for rigid 
tapping/threading. Your synthesized index reference position should persist 
until EMC is shut down, so really no different than a true index except:

1. Random relation to spindle orientation 
2. Orientiation changes every EMC startup


I guess the mod function could allow for encoders with non 1-1 gear/belt 
ratios with the spindle

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] I decided to motorize the knee too

[Igor Chudov]

Very nice reducers!

I was thinking of making a pig roaster in summer.

And now I realize that I could make a CNC pig roaster!

Lessee...

A temp sensor inside then pig and A-D converter

Pig rotation RPM variable speed depending on roasting progress...

A tank of water and a valve to dump water into the coals when the pig
reaches temp and the program is stopped...

fun and yummy
On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Kirk Wallace
wrote:

> On Wed, 2011-02-16 at 09:44 -0600, Igor Chudov wrote:
> ... snip
> > <
> http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Bridgeport-Series-II-Interact-2-CNC-Mill/34-Adding-Servo-Control-to-Knee/
> >The
> > motor is a 3000 RPM, 65V DC motor by Soelma. On it, there is a "MI 40"
> 15:1
> > gearbox by SITI. So, if the DC motor runs at 3,000 RPM, the output shaft
> > turns at 200 RPM, and the knee would move by something like 40 IPM.
> > Perfectly acceptable.
> ... snip
>
> Your right angle drive looks like the drives I saw at Surplus Center:
> https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=13-1461
> https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=13-1464
> https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=13-1441
> https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=13-1465
>
> I thought they would be a good start for a robot arm. The higher ratio
> units might not be good for ball screws, but might be perfect for arms
> and turntables. There are a ton of other right angle drives available
> but these seemed especially useful at a decent price.
>
> Too little time and money :(
> --
> Kirk Wallace
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
> California, USA
>
>
>
> --
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> Find and fix more than 250 security defects in the development cycle.
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>
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Re: [Emc-users] I decided to motorize the knee too

[Kirk Wallace]

On Wed, 2011-02-16 at 09:44 -0600, Igor Chudov wrote:
... snip
> The
> motor is a 3000 RPM, 65V DC motor by Soelma. On it, there is a "MI 40" 15:1
> gearbox by SITI. So, if the DC motor runs at 3,000 RPM, the output shaft
> turns at 200 RPM, and the knee would move by something like 40 IPM.
> Perfectly acceptable.
... snip

Your right angle drive looks like the drives I saw at Surplus Center:
https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=13-1461
https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=13-1464 
https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=13-1441 
https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=13-1465 

I thought they would be a good start for a robot arm. The higher ratio
units might not be good for ball screws, but might be perfect for arms
and turntables. There are a ton of other right angle drives available
but these seemed especially useful at a decent price. 

Too little time and money :(
-- 
Kirk Wallace
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
California, USA


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Re: [Emc-users] Encoders with no Index

[Igor Chudov]

>
> Rigid tapping will always need two pins to sense direction, but unless
> people do multi-pass tapping (and I guess they might, with taper,
> second and plug (yikes!)) the index serves only to start the cycle so
> should be perfectly safe to derive synthetically.
>
>
Which brings up a question, can one tap with a plug tap first, on a CNC mill
that is equipped for rigid tapping?
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Re: [Emc-users] Modbus TCP/IP response time [orig: EMC2 and Ethernet]

[Jon Elson]

John L. Craddock wrote:
>   
>  The most common way of establishing real time determinism is to eliminate 
> the collisions inherent in ethernet. This is done by establising a master / 
> slave strategy with the master calling the shots in time-slots (TDMA). This 
> requires an accurate distributed clock arrangement with a synchronising 
> procedure. It is commonly referred to as isochronous transmission. The 
> introduction of high resolution timers in Linux opened the way to achieving 
> this strategy. The open source implementation is at www.rtnet.org . It works 
> on fast ethernet (100mbps) and gigabit ethernet; so the possibilities already 
> are in the underlying structure supporting EMC2 in RTAI, also Xenomai.
> The difficulty at present is that the system only works between a linux 
> master and a linux slave whereas the commercial and other so-called 
> open-source implementations have embeded the slave into asics or fpgas where 
> the IP cores are proprietary.
>   
However, for the motion control application, this is not really needed, 
as there is ONE master and one or several slaves.
But, the slaves would never initiate a transfer.  If the master were set 
to address each slave and wait for the response before addressing 
another slave, there would be no possibility of collision, making the 
protocol much simpler.  This might require an FPGA ethernet stack which 
could respond within microseconds, instead of a micro which might take 
hundreds of us to prepare a packet and send it.

It has been suggested that a lower-level component of the rtnet package 
could be used to manage the ethernet mostly as a multi-point serial 
port, with really minimal overhead.  I have no idea how complicated that 
might be.

Jon

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[Emc-users] Encoders with no Index

[andy pugh]

Is there any reason why it would be a bad idea to derive an index
pulse in software? I am thinking about situations where folk are short
of P-port pins but want to tap/thread etc.
You can do lathe threading with one pulse per rev and a single pin,
but I can't help feeling that multiple pulses and a software-derived
index would work better (whether is is done with modulo division
cobbled together with HAL functions, a custom component, or even a mod
to the existing encoder counter)

Rigid tapping will always need two pins to sense direction, but unless
people do multi-pass tapping (and I guess they might, with taper,
second and plug (yikes!)) the index serves only to start the cycle so
should be perfectly safe to derive synthetically.

-- 
atp
"Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"

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Re: [Emc-users] Servo Balance

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 11:44 AM, dave  wrote:

> P = gain or stiffness
> I = integral ... shoves the axis toward equalibrium
> D = differential .. pushes harder as the following error gets larger
> FF1 = velocity feedforward
> FF2 = accel feedforward
>

I beg to differ about the meaning of the D term.

Here's the basics of the PID control as explained by a control theory noobie
like myself; apologies to those on the list to whom this stuff is bloody
obvious---please just disregard the rest.

The PID controller is a useful generalization of a general control system
useful in many areas: it could be a temperature controller that uses a
heater to warm up a tank, or servo that drives a motor to move a spindle on
a linear track. Traditionally, such system is called 'plant'. The goal of
the controller is to use the stimulus (heater current or servo voltage) to
move the system from whatever current state to the desired value, as
measured by  a feedback value: temperature sensor in the tank, or the
position sensor on the linear stage, or the resolver on the servo drive. The
variable that the controller is trying to affect is the error, or difference
between the actual and desired position of the 'plant'.

The P (proportional) term is the one that pushes harder the farther the
system is from the desired point. Since it's proportional to the error term,
it tries to zero out the error,  but  it can overshoot and whipsaw leading
to instability and oscillation around the desired position. If the system
starts from a large error 'e', the 'P*e' term is large and pushes the plant
hard, causing it to acquire significant speed when travelling towards the
desired position---so by the time it arrives at zero error, it has so much
inertia (mechanical or thermal or whatever the actual system is controlling)
that it keeps going and overshoots the zero. Eventually it will build up the
opposite large P*e term, which is likely to similarly overshoot on the
return trip---leading to oscillations.

The D (differential) term is proportional to the derivative of the error
term. In the previous scenario, when the P*e term drives the plant to move
fast, the D * (d e / d t) term becomes large, and it is used with the minus
sign so it counteracts the large values of the  P*e term. If the 'plant' was
a mechanical system consisting of  mass on a spring, the D term would
correspond to friction that attenuates the oscillations of the spring.

The I term is useful because it sweeps up the residual error if there's
some. If the P and D terms do not cause the error to go to zero, i..e
there's some sort of offset or bias that keeps the plant off the desired
value, the integral of the value of e over time grows, and when multiplied
by the I parameter (I * integral_0^T{ e dt }, provides an additional
restoring term that will drive the error to zero. Of course when the plant
hovers around the desired point, and is taking the random positive and
negative values, the integral of the error is zero so the I term drops out.

FF0/1/2 do not have a simple mechanical/mathematical explanation, but are
just useful shortcuts that speed up the convergence of the plant. In any
case, most tuning algorithms suggest just slight tuning of the FF values,
and even then at the end of the process, after tuning P/I/D.
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Re: [Emc-users] I decided to motorize the knee too

[Igor Chudov]

A little update on this.

I set up a web page with some relevant links and drawings.


http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Bridgeport-Series-II-Interact-2-CNC-Mill/34-Adding-Servo-Control-to-Knee/

The
motor is a 3000 RPM, 65V DC motor by Soelma. On it, there is a "MI 40" 15:1
gearbox by SITI. So, if the DC motor runs at 3,000 RPM, the output shaft
turns at 200 RPM, and the knee would move by something like 40 IPM.
Perfectly acceptable.

The knee has a pneumatic assist, so the compressor is what will be doing
much of the heavy lifting work.

What makes me very excited, is that the gearbox has a hollow shaft (if I got
this right), and if so, I can make an adaptor and slide it right on the
current shaft for cranking the knee, saving a lot of space and making it a
more robust design.

I bought an E5 encoder from US Digital, and will mount it on the encoder
shaft that is in the back of the DC motor.
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Re: [Emc-users] First tests

[Przemek Klosowski]

Hello, Steve,

I am a shop noobie so please excuse simple questions.

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 5:25 AM, Steve Blackmore  wrote:

>
> 25 passes seems high though for that pitch? In 86xx steel I do 5 passes
> for 1mm pitch, 10 for 1.5 and 15 for 2mm (all plus 2 spring passes).
>

What are spring passes?


>
> If I let CAM calculate the passes on removal rate for insert it's much
> less, it will try and do a 2mm pitch in 7 passes. I can do that but need
> the coolant on, back to the no covers or guards problem.
>

Do you have to take covers off when you run coolant?  I thought that the
main purpose of covers is to contain spraying coolant  and flying swarf :)
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Re: [Emc-users] Modbus TCP/IP response time [orig: EMC2 and Ethernet]

[Dave]

On 2/16/2011 1:22 AM, John L. Craddock wrote:
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Dave [mailto:e...@dc9.tzo.com]
>> Sent: 16 February 2011 15:26
>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Modbus TCP/IP response time [orig:
>> EMC2 and Ethernet]
>>
>> On 2/15/2011 10:43 PM, Yi-Shin Li wrote:
>>  
>>> On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 11:04 PM, Ralph Stirling<
>>> ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu>   wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
 I use a Wiznet hardware TCP/IP module (http://wiznet.co.kr) and a
 Spartan3 FPGA with a Xilinx PicoBlaze softcore processor
  
>> to provide
>>  
 the slave end communications.  With a Dell GX620 and Ubuntu 10.04
 running Octave, I can do 1000Hz loop rates transferring
  
>> sixteen byte
>>  
 packets (plus TCP overhead) each direction.  In my
  
>> application I use
>>  
 the FPGA to provide the timing, but there is no reason that RTAI
 couldn't do that instead.  The Wiznet module makes plain
  
>> TCP or UDP
>>  
 communication absolutely trivial to implement, as the
  
>> entire stack is
>>  
 contained in silicon.  It is also blazingly fast for the
  
>> same reason.
>>  
 The module costs ~$20, and the chip price is ~$7.  I have
  
>> built some
>>  
 boards with the FPGA and wiznet chip together, but haven't
  
>> finished
>>  
 testing those.  So far I've been using Digilent Spartan3 boards.

 So if EtherCAT looks to messy, you might consider
  
>> something simpler
>>  
 like plain TCP or UDP.

 -- Ralph


  
>>> Hello Ralph,
>>>
>>> Are your running Ubuntu with RTAI kernel?
>>> Which communication protocol are you using for this project?
>>> What's the fastest response time you could get with Wiznet module?
>>>
>>> To EMC-list:
>>>
>>> I'm surveying how fast the response time could be for
>>>
>> typical Ethernet
>>  
>>> hardware with Modbus TCP/IP. The results I got are varying from
>>> 11.92us to 20ms.
>>>
>>> - 11.92us (slave turnaround time not included)
>>> - 250us (four bases could be updated in one
>>> millisecond)
>>> - 20ms (Modbus TCPIP Command/Response time to and from a
>>>
>> network slave
>>  
>>> device is typically
>>>
>>>
>> 20ms)>  
>>> -performance>
>>>
>>> Please advise and share your experience regarding the
>>>
>> response time of
>>  
>>> Modbus TCP/IP.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Yishin Li
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> A simple explanation of the differences between TCP and UDP.
>> http://www.skullbox.net/tcpudp.php
>>
>>
>>  
> TCP/IP has too much overhead for motion control type communication unless a 
> great deal of intelligence is built into the slave processor. The most common 
> way of establishing real time determinism is to eliminate the collisions 
> inherent in ethernet. This is done by establising a master / slave strategy 
> with the master calling the shots in time-slots (TDMA). This requires an 
> accurate distributed clock arrangement with a synchronising procedure. It is 
> commonly referred to as isochronous transmission. The introduction of high 
> resolution timers in Linux opened the way to achieving this strategy. The 
> open source implementation is at www.rtnet.org . It works on fast ethernet 
> (100mbps) and gigabit ethernet; so the possibilities already are in the 
> underlying structure supporting EMC2 in RTAI, also Xenomai.
> The difficulty at present is that the system only works between a linux 
> master and a linux slave whereas the commercial and other so-called 
> open-source implementations have embeded the slave into asics or fpgas where 
> the IP cores are proprietary.
> If someone with the know-how could port the slave functions of RTnet to 
> something like a NXP LPC1768 see
>   
> http://www.littlebirdelectronics.com/products/mbed-%252d-LPC1768-Development-Board.html
> then it is possible that a 200us cycle time could be achieved on 128 bits of 
> IO on a fast ethernet connection pretty cheaply with the bonus of 300 feet 
> transmission limit without a hub. Altenatively, porting to Ralph Stirling's 
> setup might also be possible.
> Just my thoughts after a bit of research. Although I don't have the grey 
> matter to do it myself.
> Regards
> John C
>
>
>

200 us is similar to what Siemens achieves with their DriveCliq 
interface..That is also point to point - no external hubs or 
switches and it does work well.

Dave


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Re: [Emc-users] Modbus TCP/IP response time [orig: EMC2 and Ethernet]

[Erik Christiansen]

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 04:22:21PM +1000, John L. Craddock wrote:
> If someone with the know-how could port the slave functions of RTnet
> to something like a NXP LPC1768 see
> http://www.littlebirdelectronics.com/products/mbed-%252d-LPC1768-Development-Board.html
> then it is possible that a 200us cycle time could be achieved on 128
> bits of IO on a fast ethernet connection pretty cheaply with the bonus
> of 300 feet transmission limit without a hub. Altenatively, porting to
> Ralph Stirling's setup might also be possible. Just my thoughts after
> a bit of research.

>From here it begins to look like a potentially difficult way to achieve
relatively simple ends. At 10 Mb/s, we can poke 128 bits + 32 bits
overhead [1] over RS485 in 16 us, for much much less effort, I think.

Handled by interrupts at the receiving end, the transmission time is not
lost to the slave, so at 200 uS interval, An ATxmega, for example, would
have 200 * 40 = 8000 instruction cycles. That's not a lot, but then it's
not doing motion control, so that might be fine.

But then I'm a KISS enthusiast from way back.

Erik

[1] For 16 bytes sent asynchronously.
May be reduced with e.g. HDLC.


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Re: [Emc-users] First tests

[Steve Blackmore]

On Tue, 15 Feb 2011 16:12:55 -0800, you wrote:

>On Tue, 2011-02-15 at 19:55 +0100, Klemen Ozebek wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> 
>> on the link below you can se my first test of scratch built lathe which runs
>> by EMC2. Hardware which is used on lathe: CT Unimotor AC servo motors,
>> Digitax ST AC Drives, Commander SK - for spindle, Mesa 5i20 fpga + 7i33
>> analog servo card + 7i42.
>> 
>> Best regards.
>
>I am really surprised that your threading can be done at such a high
>spindle speed. The axes must have a high acceleration limit. I have to
>have a lead in (air threads) of two to four threads to give my Z enough
>time to settle to the target feedrate. (Although I think the latest EMC2
>improves this problem.)

Looks right for a servo machine to me :)

Here between 600 and 1200 rpm is the norm using steppers, depends
entirely on the pitch and the material. I can thread faster than that,
it means changing pulleys though which is a PITA, and as all the guards
are off the lathe it fires swarf all over the shop at high speeds .

My cam program knows the max pulley speeds and max feed and acceleration
rates for each axis of the machine. It has material tables too, so tries
to give me the optimum for job in hand.

25 passes seems high though for that pitch? In 86xx steel I do 5 passes
for 1mm pitch, 10 for 1.5 and 15 for 2mm (all plus 2 spring passes). 

If I let CAM calculate the passes on removal rate for insert it's much
less, it will try and do a 2mm pitch in 7 passes. I can do that but need
the coolant on, back to the no covers or guards problem.

One thing I definitely don't do is use threading inserts for
roughing/finishing cuts before threading - far too expensive for that :)

Steve Blackmore
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