Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 01:45, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> While I was out, getting a legal thing underway, the 6807 bearings showed
> up, but they do not fit, the pieces that go inside need a BIG hammer,
> and where they fit in the main body shell is too small by half a mm.

What is the hole size in the CAD? Did you ever print that calibration cube?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 04 August 2020 03:42:59 andy pugh wrote:

> On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 01:45, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > While I was out, getting a legal thing underway, the 6807 bearings
> > showed up, but they do not fit, the pieces that go inside need a BIG
> > hammer, and where they fit in the main body shell is too small by
> > half a mm.
>
> What is the hole size in the CAD? Did you ever print that calibration
> cube?

yes to the latter, and its average is about 5.02mm per 5mm cube but is 
not linear. 25mm measures 25.04, and if anything, the recess should be 
big, not so tight it can't even be started with a small hammer.  And the 
hole size isn't shown in freecad, or I don't know how to display it. 
I'll have to chuck and center up the main body in a 4 jaw and run a 
boreing bar thru the hole, probably an HSS one, or for threading as a 
normal carbide chip isn't sharp enough.  I'll try that later today.  It 
not quite 5am local time ATM.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 09:49, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> And the
> hole size isn't shown in freecad, or I don't know how to display it.

You might need to measure it. As it is STL that will end up being
vertex-to-vertex so may take a few attempts to find the maximum.
In fact that could be part of the problem, STL will by its nature tend
to shrink concave shapes. How many facets make up the bore?

At the risk of ruining the job, you can tweak prints with a soldering
iron and a retired tip.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Chris Albertson]

If a 25mm cube prints as 25.04 it may not be because the scale is off.
 You would only know that if you printed a second 50mm cube and it was
50.08  My guess is that on your printer the 50mm cube would be 50.04

The printer should have both a scale factor and a bias.  you would hope the
scale is 1.000 and the bias is 0.000 Let's assume your printer has a scale
of 1.0 (it is perfect) and a measured bias of 0.04 that is added to all
surfaces.  If so them it would print a 25mm hole as a 24.92mm

Actually it is worse.  The plastic shrinks when it cools and there are
bumps. And when a hole shrinks there is nothing but air to hold back the
plastic that is shrinking like a rubber band.  On the outside the other
plastic holds it from shrinking to much.  So inside and outside diameters
shrink differently.

The other effect that makes hole under sized is that, let's say you are
making a left turn with the print head trying to follow a curve.   There is
going to be more plastic on the inside of the curve then the outside.
 Inside diameters will have a little to much plastic.Then add in those
surface imperfactions and shrinkage.

My conclusion is that if you care about exact precision, put the part in a
lathe and use a boring bar to remove the 0.2mm of extra plastic.PLA is
very easy to machine if you go very slow so it stays cool.   If you don't
care about being exact use sand paper over a round form to enlarge the
hole.   Boring is an easy operation if your lathe still has hand cranks.
Or change the hole size and reprint the part.

Most printed parts require some post processing if you care about precision
and appearance.
The other solution is to change the hole size in the CAD file.


On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 1:49 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Tuesday 04 August 2020 03:42:59 andy pugh wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 01:45, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > > While I was out, getting a legal thing underway, the 6807 bearings
> > > showed up, but they do not fit, the pieces that go inside need a BIG
> > > hammer, and where they fit in the main body shell is too small by
> > > half a mm.
> >
> > What is the hole size in the CAD? Did you ever print that calibration
> > cube?
>
> yes to the latter, and its average is about 5.02mm per 5mm cube but is
> not linear. 25mm measures 25.04, and if anything, the recess should be
> big, not so tight it can't even be started with a small hammer.  And the
> hole size isn't shown in freecad, or I don't know how to display it.
> I'll have to chuck and center up the main body in a 4 jaw and run a
> boreing bar thru the hole, probably an HSS one, or for threading as a
> normal carbide chip isn't sharp enough.  I'll try that later today.  It
> not quite 5am local time ATM.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Problem with Rigid Tapping on USC Equipped Bridgeport

[Matthew Herd]

Sorry for the delayed reply.  I did some work on the scope on Sunday morning 
and have attached some pictures of the results.  Let me know if they don’t come 
through.

In sort, the results appear to show a roughly 80kHz noise when the machine is 
turned on, with spikes pretty frequently exceeding 2V (where my trigger was set 
for channel 1, the index channel.  Channel 2 was the A channel of the encoder 
and the noise also appeared on there.  Results were identical regardless of 
whether the encoder was connected to the USC board or not.  Spindle on/off 
appeared to have little or no impact on the noise.  I also got a picture of the 
Hal Scope for the index pin and it is triggering repeatedly as discussed 
before.  I wasn’t able to reproduce the sawtooth on the motion.spindle-revs 
during G33.1, but it was still randomly failing to reverse and retract out of 
the hole occasionally.  I ran a program with numerous cycles and it’d e-stop 
the machine after a few G33.1’s for reasons unknown.  The encoder wires are 
twisted pairs and they’re only separated to allow connection to ground.

Given these findings, it appears that I’ll be rewiring the grounds to a single 
point in the near future.  I’ll re-test once that is done, but it’ll be a few 
weeks.  I was looking it over and while I didn’t connect everything to a single 
point, I did do a fairly thorough job of making sure each one was on a separate 
bolt on the case of the respective enclosures.  I’m wondering if there’s any 
value in isolating power and logic grounds or isolating either one from the 
machine.  



> On Aug 2, 2020, at 11:34 AM, Jon Elson  wrote:
> 
> On 08/01/2020 01:37 PM, Matthew Herd wrote:
>> Thanks Gene, I hope you’re well also.  I disconnected that grounding wire, 
>> no difference observed in the ppmc.0.encoder.03.index behavior.  The noise 
>> seems the same both when spindle is running and stopped, with a tendency 
>> strongly toward "true" than "false."  Pulses seem to be both long and short, 
>> but I’d guess they’re about 80-90% true.  Not at all what I’d expect, even 
>> with noise.
>> 
>> 
> This does not make any sense at all.  The encoder.xx.index reports detecting 
> a falling edge on the index (Z) input.  it is reset every time it is read.  
> Long true pulses mean it was triggered at least once every millisecond, ie. 
> faster than the servo thread samples it.
> 
> So, the encoder.xx.index is NOT looking at the STATE of the Z input, but 
> whether a high-to-low transition occurred since the last time it was read.
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Problem with Rigid Tapping on USC Equipped Bridgeport

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 13:39, Matthew Herd  wrote:

>  I’m wondering if there’s any value in isolating power and logic grounds or 
> isolating either one from the machine.

That isn't always possible, even if you want to. The drives themselves
tend to tie them together.

But, random indexes shouldn't actually have the effect described. The
index-enable only gets set once at the start of the cycle. It
shouldn't matter what the Z-phase does from that point on.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Problem with Rigid Tapping on USC Equipped Bridgeport

[Matthew Herd]

Yes, I figured as much, but I figure it’s a problem that should be solved and 
the noise looks like a contributing factor.  

I am guessing that the source of the trouble is probably the VFD, as 80kHz 
seems like a plausible base frequency for driving an AC motor.  Only the USC 
should be operating at a frequency higher than 60Hz other than the VFD.  The 
machine uses three gecko drives and large steppers, so it’s not very 
sophisticated.  I traced out the grounds briefly and while they look fine, I 
did some dumb stuff.  Like running a ground wire from a 12V power supply to a 
terminal block, then back to the ground connection, making no other connections 
at the terminal block — no idea why I’d have done that.

> On Aug 4, 2020, at 8:48 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
> 
> But, random indexes shouldn't actually have the effect described. The
> index-enable only gets set once at the start of the cycle. It
> shouldn't matter what the Z-phase does from that point on.


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Re: [Emc-users] Problem with Rigid Tapping on USC Equipped Bridgeport

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 14:03, Matthew Herd  wrote:

> I am guessing that the source of the trouble is probably the VFD, as 80kHz 
> seems like a plausible base frequency for driving an AC motor.

Add an input filter to the VFD. They are not expensive. Look on eBay
for "Rasmi" (one manufacturer, but a good search term)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 04 August 2020 05:23:49 andy pugh wrote:

> On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 09:49, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > And the
> > hole size isn't shown in freecad, or I don't know how to display it.
>
> You might need to measure it. As it is STL that will end up being
> vertex-to-vertex so may take a few attempts to find the maximum.
> In fact that could be part of the problem, STL will by its nature tend
> to shrink concave shapes. How many facets make up the bore?

Freecad doesn't show me that from the step file input either.

> At the risk of ruining the job, you can tweak prints with a soldering
> iron and a retired tip.

In this case, I think I'd druther center it up in a 4 jaw, and bore it 
with a very sharp tool, say about half a thou per pass, or less, I can 
go .0002" at a time in diameter with my hand dials on the 
Sheldon. .0001" in radii.  Be a good excuse to find out how out of tram 
this Ender-3 is that is being corrected by the bed levelers, but that 
won't fix the axis lean.  And the Sheldon's spinning will easily detect 
that. 

I may yet drill access holes in the left post for the X bar leveling 
screw's access, as it not exactly plumb visibly.  Said another way, if 
it was setting on a dead level surface, a good Starret level, on the X 
travel bar, will show a bubble left of center by quite a bit. But there 
is no access to those two screws once the extruder carriage is mounted 
onto the post, so if its factory miss-adjusted OOTB, you've no way to 
fix that without drilling holes in the left post center web for allen 
wrench access.  Or take it back apart, make the adjustment, and put it 
back together to check it.  Needs to be done in any event if making 
rotating parts.  And these are.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 15:11, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Freecad doesn't show me that from the step file input either.

https://wiki.freecadweb.org/Part_Measure_Linear ?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 04 August 2020 05:47:46 Chris Albertson wrote:

> If a 25mm cube prints as 25.04 it may not be because the scale is off.
>  You would only know that if you printed a second 50mm cube and it was
> 50.08  My guess is that on your printer the 50mm cube would be 50.04
>
Thats been my impression too. And there is no bias adjustment. only 
scale, but there is a definite, easily lost in the measurement noise, 
bias.

> The printer should have both a scale factor and a bias.  you would
> hope the scale is 1.000 and the bias is 0.000 Let's assume your
> printer has a scale of 1.0 (it is perfect) and a measured bias of 0.04
> that is added to all surfaces.  If so them it would print a 25mm hole
> as a 24.92mm

About what its done or worse.

> Actually it is worse.  The plastic shrinks when it cools and there are
> bumps. And when a hole shrinks there is nothing but air to hold back
> the plastic that is shrinking like a rubber band.  On the outside the
> other plastic holds it from shrinking to much.  So inside and outside
> diameters shrink differently.
>
> The other effect that makes hole under sized is that, let's say you
> are making a left turn with the print head trying to follow a curve.  
> There is going to be more plastic on the inside of the curve then the
> outside. Inside diameters will have a little to much plastic.Then
> add in those surface imperfactions and shrinkage.

Exactly.

> My conclusion is that if you care about exact precision, put the part
> in a lathe and use a boring bar to remove the 0.2mm of extra plastic. 
>   PLA is very easy to machine if you go very slow so it stays cool.  
> If you don't care about being exact use sand paper over a round form
> to enlarge the hole.   Boring is an easy operation if your lathe still
> has hand cranks. Or change the hole size and reprint the part.

That is a 200 meters of pla part, 42:12 hours:min to print. I'll bore it 
on the lathe as my linuxcnc driven hand dials can go .0001 in radii per 
click.  The other two parts that fit the ID of this bearing, can be 
driven in with difficulty, so cleaning that surface up would be 
beneficial too. The difficulty level there makes me think the assembly 
screws would break it without exerting enough force to bring the parts 
together at the center of the bearings bore depth.

> Most printed parts require some post processing if you care about
> precision and appearance.
> The other solution is to change the hole size in the CAD file.

freecad can display the .step, but the .step file isn't the src.

> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 1:49 AM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Tuesday 04 August 2020 03:42:59 andy pugh wrote:
> > > On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 01:45, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > > > While I was out, getting a legal thing underway, the 6807
> > > > bearings showed up, but they do not fit, the pieces that go
> > > > inside need a BIG hammer, and where they fit in the main body
> > > > shell is too small by half a mm.
> > >
> > > What is the hole size in the CAD? Did you ever print that
> > > calibration cube?
> >
> > yes to the latter, and its average is about 5.02mm per 5mm cube but
> > is not linear. 25mm measures 25.04, and if anything, the recess
> > should be big, not so tight it can't even be started with a small
> > hammer.  And the hole size isn't shown in freecad, or I don't know
> > how to display it. I'll have to chuck and center up the main body in
> > a 4 jaw and run a boreing bar thru the hole, probably an HSS one, or

> > for threading as a normal carbide chip designed to brute force 
> > steel, isn't sharp enough for this except the single tooth thread
> > cutters..  

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Problem with Rigid Tapping on USC Equipped Bridgeport

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 04 August 2020 08:37:06 Matthew Herd wrote:

> Sorry for the delayed reply.  I did some work on the scope on Sunday
> morning and have attached some pictures of the results.  Let me know
> if they don’t come through.
>
> In sort, the results appear to show a roughly 80kHz noise when the
> machine is turned on, with spikes pretty frequently exceeding 2V
> (where my trigger was set for channel 1, the index channel.  Channel 2
> was the A channel of the encoder and the noise also appeared on there.
>  Results were identical regardless of whether the encoder was
> connected to the USC board or not.  Spindle on/off appeared to have
> little or no impact on the noise.  I also got a picture of the Hal
> Scope for the index pin and it is triggering repeatedly as discussed
> before.  I wasn’t able to reproduce the sawtooth on the
> motion.spindle-revs during G33.1, but it was still randomly failing to
> reverse and retract out of the hole occasionally.  I ran a program
> with numerous cycles and it’d e-stop the machine after a few G33.1’s
> for reasons unknown.  The encoder wires are twisted pairs and they’re
> only separated to allow connection to ground.
>
> Given these findings, it appears that I’ll be rewiring the grounds to
> a single point in the near future.  I’ll re-test once that is done,
> but it’ll be a few weeks.  I was looking it over and while I didn’t
> connect everything to a single point, I did do a fairly thorough job
> of making sure each one was on a separate bolt on the case of the
> respective enclosures.  I’m wondering if there’s any value in
> isolating power and logic grounds or isolating either one from the
> machine.
>
Machine frame must be grounded to that bolt, I have a roll of 3/8" wide 
braid I use for that. And it would not hurt a thing  to ground the table 
to the machine frame by the same method. If you do any shade tree EDM on 
that machine, like burning out a broken tap, I ground whichever polarity 
of the EDM supply that stands the best chance of not causing any arcing 
in the spindle bearings, that can be death on those.

> > On Aug 2, 2020, at 11:34 AM, Jon Elson 
> > wrote:
> >
> > On 08/01/2020 01:37 PM, Matthew Herd wrote:
> >> Thanks Gene, I hope you’re well also.  I disconnected that
> >> grounding wire, no difference observed in the
> >> ppmc.0.encoder.03.index behavior.  The noise seems the same both
> >> when spindle is running and stopped, with a tendency strongly
> >> toward "true" than "false."  Pulses seem to be both long and short,
> >> but I’d guess they’re about 80-90% true.  Not at all what I’d
> >> expect, even with noise.
> >
> > This does not make any sense at all.  The encoder.xx.index reports
> > detecting a falling edge on the index (Z) input.  it is reset every
> > time it is read.  Long true pulses mean it was triggered at least
> > once every millisecond, ie. faster than the servo thread samples it.
> >
> > So, the encoder.xx.index is NOT looking at the STATE of the Z input,
> > but whether a high-to-low transition occurred since the last time it
> > was read.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >
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>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] Problem with Rigid Tapping on USC Equipped Bridgeport

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 04 August 2020 08:48:28 andy pugh wrote:

> On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 13:39, Matthew Herd  wrote:
> >  I’m wondering if there’s any value in isolating power and logic
> > grounds or isolating either one from the machine.
>
> That isn't always possible, even if you want to. The drives themselves
> tend to tie them together.
>
> But, random indexes shouldn't actually have the effect described. The
> index-enable only gets set once at the start of the cycle. It
> shouldn't matter what the Z-phase does from that point on.

This is true but nothing is preventing that noise from looking like an 
index, long before the real one occurs. That will start the rigid tap 
cycle early, and if that same noise is getting into the encoders A/B 
signals all bets are off.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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[Emc-users] Error Message

[Dave Matthews]

Running LinuxCNC 2.8 on a parallel port setup.  Not sure what the
minor number is, installed a few months ago.

Gcode was from Vectric Vcarve 10.5 using the LinuxCNC post processor.

I tried the Vectric LinuxCNC post processor yesterday to see if it was
smoother than their EMC G61 post processor.  During the run I got a
pop up error message that repeated with just the ID number changing.

Message:
Tried to set invalid pose in tpAddCurrentPos on id 1347!disp is nan, nan, nan

The message appeared twice for each instance and repeated with
different (increasing) numbers.

Any pointers as to where to start looking or is this something to just ignore?

Dave


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Re: [Emc-users] Problem with Rigid Tapping on USC Equipped Bridgeport

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 04 August 2020 09:00:30 Matthew Herd wrote:

> Yes, I figured as much, but I figure it’s a problem that should be
> solved and the noise looks like a contributing factor.
>
> I am guessing that the source of the trouble is probably the VFD, as
> 80kHz seems like a plausible base frequency for driving an AC motor. 
> Only the USC should be operating at a frequency higher than 60Hz other
> than the VFD.  The machine uses three gecko drives and large steppers,
> so it’s not very sophisticated.  I traced out the grounds briefly and
> while they look fine, I did some dumb stuff.  Like running a ground
> wire from a 12V power supply to a terminal block, then back to the
> ground connection, making no other connections at the terminal block —
> no idea why I’d have done that.
>
If that terminal is isolated from the rest, and the connection is tight, 
it shouldn't have any effect.  A shorter run straight to the bolt is 
better, but if the terminal is isolated, it is not Matts problem.

> > On Aug 4, 2020, at 8:48 AM, andy pugh  wrote:
> >
> > But, random indexes shouldn't actually have the effect described.
> > The index-enable only gets set once at the start of the cycle. It
> > shouldn't matter what the Z-phase does from that point on.
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] Problem with Rigid Tapping on USC Equipped Bridgeport

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 04 August 2020 09:09:38 andy pugh wrote:

> On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 14:03, Matthew Herd  wrote:
> > I am guessing that the source of the trouble is probably the VFD, as
> > 80kHz seems like a plausible base frequency for driving an AC motor.
>
> Add an input filter to the VFD. They are not expensive. Look on eBay
> for "Rasmi" (one manufacturer, but a good search term)

Or on this side of the pond, CorCom make's both a single phase and a 3 
phase filter thats a brick wall above 30 mhz, I have one on both sides 
of the vfd on the Sheldon.  I can see the vfd, but its under 200 
millivolts all the way to the scopes 100+ megahertz bandwidth.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
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 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 04 August 2020 10:27:28 andy pugh wrote:

> On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 15:11, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > Freecad doesn't show me that from the step file input either.
>
> https://wiki.freecadweb.org/Part_Measure_Linear ?

not sure if that applies to debians version 16.0, so I've the 19 AppImage 
coming in now. The wiki has links to make that easy.  Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: [Emc-users] Problem with Rigid Tapping on USC Equipped Bridgeport

[Matthew Herd]

Thanks Gene, I just ordered a Rasmi unit that should be able to mount behind 
the VFD inside the panel (assuming enough depth in the box).  Apparently they 
make them for Yaskawa drives, but my Hitachi has the same bolt pattern.  I’ll 
get it installed and see how it looks.  If that checks out, I’ll probably still 
rewire the grounds to be sure of success.  But I’ll take some measurements 
along the way and see how well it works (or doesn’t).

> On Aug 4, 2020, at 11:42 AM, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday 04 August 2020 09:09:38 andy pugh wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 14:03, Matthew Herd  wrote:
>>> I am guessing that the source of the trouble is probably the VFD, as
>>> 80kHz seems like a plausible base frequency for driving an AC motor.
>> 
>> Add an input filter to the VFD. They are not expensive. Look on eBay
>> for "Rasmi" (one manufacturer, but a good search term)
> 
> Or on this side of the pond, CorCom make's both a single phase and a 3 
> phase filter thats a brick wall above 30 mhz, I have one on both sides 
> of the vfd on the Sheldon.  I can see the vfd, but its under 200 
> millivolts all the way to the scopes 100+ megahertz bandwidth.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
> - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Error Message

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 16:36, Dave Matthews  wrote:

> Tried to set invalid pose in tpAddCurrentPos on id 1347!disp is nan, nan, nan

Typically indicative of a divide-by-zero.

What does the G-code look like?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Error Message

[Dave Matthews]

Let's see if it will take the attachment.  What would I be looking for
in the gcode?

Dave

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 12:12 PM andy pugh  wrote:
>
> On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 16:36, Dave Matthews  wrote:
>
> > Tried to set invalid pose in tpAddCurrentPos on id 1347!disp is nan, nan, 
> > nan
>
> Typically indicative of a divide-by-zero.
>
> What does the G-code look like?
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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Bottom Clearance Pocket_1-4-Bottom Clearance Pocket.ngc
Description: Binary data
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Re: [Emc-users] Problem with Rigid Tapping on USC Equipped Bridgeport

[Jon Elson]

On 08/04/2020 08:00 AM, Matthew Herd wrote:


I am guessing that the source of the trouble is probably the VFD, as 80kHz 
seems like a plausible base frequency for driving an AC motor.  Only the USC 
should be operating at a frequency higher than 60Hz other than the VFD.  The 
machine uses three gecko drives and large steppers, so it’s not very 
sophisticated.
I think 80 KHz is a multiple of the frequency of the Gecko 
drives. You might try turning off the power to them and see 
if the issue changes.



Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Error Message

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 17:21, Dave Matthews  wrote:
>
> Let's see if it will take the attachment.  What would I be looking for
> in the gcode?

/0
TAN[90]

But it looks like plain G-code.

Do you have any remaps?
Is your tool table looking sensible? (Maybe a tool probe routine
polluted that with a NaN?)
The G-code appears to be running fine in a sim here.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Chris Albertson]

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 7:11 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Tuesday 04 August 2020 05:23:49 andy pugh wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 09:49, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > > And the
> > > hole size isn't shown in freecad, or I don't know how to display it.
> >
> > You might need to measure it. As it is STL that will end up being
> > vertex-to-vertex so may take a few attempts to find the maximum.
> > In fact that could be part of the problem, STL will by its nature tend
> > to shrink concave shapes. How many facets make up the bore?
>
> Freecad doesn't show me that from the step file input either.
>

Yes, the CAD file (.step file) models the hole with a circle.  Only after
you output the part as an STL, is the circle converted to a polygon. STL
files only have straight lines, no curves.  To see how many sides, you need
to look at the STL file.   If there are few enough sides on the polygon to
count by eye then it is a problem. The software SHOULD choose the
number of sides such that the error in approximating a circle is below some
specified tolerance like 0.001mm or whatever. When Fusion360 exports to
STL there is some fine control over the process and I can set the allowed
errors.  I assume your CAD system has this too.  It might default to
something you don't want.  I'd check this but I doubt the default is
unreasonable.

Likey the problem is shrinkage,  And the unavoidable problem of inside
(concave) surfaces having too much plastic

As said, boring the hole is the best option if you intend to press-fit a
bearing but likely sandpapering the hole is good enough


Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 04 August 2020 13:23:41 Chris Albertson wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 7:11 AM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Tuesday 04 August 2020 05:23:49 andy pugh wrote:
> > > On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 09:49, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > > > And the
> > > > hole size isn't shown in freecad, or I don't know how to display
> > > > it.
> > >
> > > You might need to measure it. As it is STL that will end up being
> > > vertex-to-vertex so may take a few attempts to find the maximum.
> > > In fact that could be part of the problem, STL will by its nature
> > > tend to shrink concave shapes. How many facets make up the bore?
> >
> > Freecad doesn't show me that from the step file input either.
>
> Yes, the CAD file (.step file) models the hole with a circle.  Only
> after you output the part as an STL, is the circle converted to a
> polygon. STL files only have straight lines, no curves.  To see how
> many sides, you need to look at the STL file.   If there are few
> enough sides on the polygon to count by eye then it is a problem.
> The software SHOULD choose the number of sides such that the error in
> approximating a circle is below some specified tolerance like 0.001mm
> or whatever. When Fusion360 exports to STL there is some fine
> control over the process and I can set the allowed errors.  I assume
> your CAD system has this too.  It might default to something you don't
> want.  I'd check this but I doubt the default is unreasonable.
>
> Likey the problem is shrinkage,  And the unavoidable problem of inside
> (concave) surfaces having too much plastic
>
> As said, boring the hole is the best option if you intend to press-fit
> a bearing but likely sandpapering the hole is good enough
>
That would quite a while. I tried by hand with a piece of 320 but didn't 
do anywhere enough damage to start helping in 15 minutes.
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Chris Albertson]

>
> That would quite a while. I tried by hand with a piece of 320 but didn't
> do anywhere enough damage to start helping in 15 minutes.


Of course you can just make the hole larger in the CAD file and reprint.
 But I hate to do that as then I'd not be able to re-use the CAD file for
CNC milling or even for a different kind of plastic.   I usually end up
using drills reamers or taps and boring if precision is needed.  I usually
have to retouch countersinks to make flat head screws be flush.
Post-processing is pretty common.

IBut on the other hand, if you design your own parts, rather then printing
existing designs, you design around the limitation of you printer.  For
example, I don't print mod. 0.5 gears or plastic-on-metal bearings.
Clean-sheet designs can work if you avoid doing the hard stuff.   That
said, I end up designing and making everything three times.

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Problem with Rigid Tapping on USC Equipped Bridgeport

[Thaddeus Waldner]

Can you or someone else please expand on that?

Most VFD that I am familiar with operate between 10khz and 20khz. I personally 
like to configure them upwards of 16khz because I find the squealing noise 
annoying. I suppose that the main reason to not do that is that it increases 
switching losses. 

Do any servos or VFD systems actually run their base frequency higher than 
20khz?

If not, where do those harmonics come from?

> On Aug 4, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Jon Elson  wrote:
> 
> On 08/04/2020 08:00 AM, Matthew Herd wrote:
>> 
>> I am guessing that the source of the trouble is probably the VFD, as 80kHz 
>> seems like a plausible base frequency for driving an AC motor.  Only the USC 
>> should be operating at a frequency higher than 60Hz other than the VFD.  The 
>> machine uses three gecko drives and large steppers, so it’s not very 
>> sophisticated.
> I think 80 KHz is a multiple of the frequency of the Gecko drives. You might 
> try turning off the power to them and see if the issue changes.
> 
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Error Message

[Dave Matthews]

I don't use the tool table, everything runs as tool 1.  This is just a
simple wood cutting router.  I don't know what a remap is.

I modified the design and ran it again.  It is a sample of a small
round box to try out the Vectric threading tool path.  Today the
modified ran with no messages at all.

Magic gremilins?

Dave

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 1:09 PM andy pugh  wrote:
>
> On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 17:21, Dave Matthews  wrote:
> >
> > Let's see if it will take the attachment.  What would I be looking for
> > in the gcode?
>
> /0
> TAN[90]
>
> But it looks like plain G-code.
>
> Do you have any remaps?
> Is your tool table looking sensible? (Maybe a tool probe routine
> polluted that with a NaN?)
> The G-code appears to be running fine in a sim here.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 04 August 2020 14:50:20 Chris Albertson wrote:

> > That would quite a while. I tried by hand with a piece of 320 but
> > didn't do anywhere enough damage to start helping in 15 minutes.
>
> Of course you can just make the hole larger in the CAD file and
> reprint. But I hate to do that as then I'd not be able to re-use the
> CAD file for CNC milling or even for a different kind of plastic.   I
> usually end up using drills reamers or taps and boring if precision is
> needed.  I usually have to retouch countersinks to make flat head
> screws be flush. Post-processing is pretty common.
>
> IBut on the other hand, if you design your own parts, rather then
> printing existing designs, you design around the limitation of you
> printer.  For example, I don't print mod. 0.5 gears or
> plastic-on-metal bearings. Clean-sheet designs can work if you avoid
> doing the hard stuff.   That said, I end up designing and making
> everything three times.

I probably need n!. I find I can't even make freecad-19 do what 16 can 
do, make a part vanish so as to see whats behind it.  The highlight 
coloring works on THAT part, tap the space bar to make THAT part vanish, 
and it blanks the whole assembly, no matter what part I've clicked on... 
And it all comes back if I hit the spacebar again. Cornfuzzin is what it 
is. Newer versions are supposed to add features, not take them away. :(

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Bari]

On 8/2/20 9:59 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:

Discussion, educational/reference URL's all welcome.



FFF/FDM is inherently slow and low res. A resin printer can make those 
parts in minutes. The slow and cheap resin printers are under $200 USD 
and print an entire layer 100um thick from 4-20 seconds depending on 
resin used.


For example: 
https://www.amazon.com/ANYCUBIC-Photon-Zero-Assembled-Anti-aliasing/dp/B083SNDS9C




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Re: [Emc-users] Problem with Rigid Tapping on USC Equipped Bridgeport

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 04 August 2020 15:05:10 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:

> Can you or someone else please expand on that?
>
> Most VFD that I am familiar with operate between 10khz and 20khz. I
> personally like to configure them upwards of 16khz because I find the
> squealing noise annoying. I suppose that the main reason to not do
> that is that it increases switching losses.
>
> Do any servos or VFD systems actually run their base frequency higher
> than 20khz?
>
Most try to stay above 17 or 18 khz. The ferrite in the transformers is 
megneto-strictive, which is usually where the noise comes from.

> If not, where do those harmonics come from?

square waves have no theoretical limit to the harmonics generated, so the 
limit is usually the design choice of how fast the transistor can 
switch, and higher speed costs money, more often than not its how fast 
the lower level driver can charge or discharge the gate capacitance of 
the power fet doing the actual switching. The longer it takes to do the 
switch translates into a higher time for the switching transistor to be 
in ohmic territory, increasing its heating. The driver transistor might 
need to src or sink 20 amps or more during this edge transition.  For 
perhaps 5 ns?

> > On Aug 4, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Jon Elson 
> > wrote:
> >
> > On 08/04/2020 08:00 AM, Matthew Herd wrote:
> >> I am guessing that the source of the trouble is probably the VFD,
> >> as 80kHz seems like a plausible base frequency for driving an AC
> >> motor.  Only the USC should be operating at a frequency higher than
> >> 60Hz other than the VFD.  The machine uses three gecko drives and
> >> large steppers, so it’s not very sophisticated.
> >
> > I think 80 KHz is a multiple of the frequency of the Gecko drives.
> > You might try turning off the power to them and see if the issue
> > changes.
> >
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Martin Dobbins]

I probably need n!. I find I can't even make freecad-19 do what 16 can
do, make a part vanish so as to see whats behind it.  The highlight
coloring works on THAT part, tap the space bar to make THAT part vanish,
and it blanks the whole assembly, no matter what part I've clicked on...
And it all comes back if I hit the spacebar again. Cornfuzzin is what it
is. Newer versions are supposed to add features, not take them away. :(

Hi Gene,

I'm a newby too, so take this advice with a mountain of salt 🙂

Also, I'm not in a position to test what I'm saying so further "I don't believe 
this" must be applied.

You need to be over on the upper left-hand side in the tree menu, there you can 
pick components out right click for context (or keyboard shortcut) to make 
something disappear to see what's behind.  Using this tree menu means that you 
can also drill back to the original sketch(es) and show those to remind 
yourself of original dimensions

Martin

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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 04 August 2020 16:32:45 Martin Dobbins wrote:

> I probably need n!. I find I can't even make freecad-19 do what 16 can
> do, make a part vanish so as to see whats behind it.  The highlight
> coloring works on THAT part, tap the space bar to make THAT part
> vanish, and it blanks the whole assembly, no matter what part I've
> clicked on... And it all comes back if I hit the spacebar again.
> Cornfuzzin is what it is. Newer versions are supposed to add features,
> not take them away. :(
>
> Hi Gene,
>
> I'm a newby too, so take this advice with a mountain of salt 🙂
>
> Also, I'm not in a position to test what I'm saying so further "I
> don't believe this" must be applied.
>
> You need to be over on the upper left-hand side in the tree menu,
> there you can pick components out right click for context (or keyboard
> shortcut) to make something disappear to see what's behind.  Using
> this tree menu means that you can also drill back to the original
> sketch(es) and show those to remind yourself of original dimensions
>
> Martin

Unfortunately, that tree list is also blank in the 19 appimage. 16 shows 
it nicely, and a click on the part links back to the tree list. 19 does 
not. Or I haven't found the option to enable that.  Bug, or big dummy, 
damnedifiknow. :)

Thanks Martin.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
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[Emc-users] printer errs, was printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 04 August 2020 16:13:52 Bari wrote:

I finally got around to measureing the 5x5 cube I did this morning.
X=5.31mm,10.40,15.45,20.58,25.55
Y=5.25,10.35,15.40,20.4925.62
Z=brim 0.70,5,61,10.54,15.57,20.43,25.39

The top 5x5 has a fat spot near its bottom that reads almost 5.9. Only in 
X.  I was not in the room at the time.  brim is too thick. Raise glass. 
And scale.

So I need to subtract a bias from xy to even get in the ball park.
And add a teeny bit to Z.

And this was after I had taken it apart to see in I could improve the 
tramming which I did a considerable bit of, Z moves a lot easier both 
ways now. MUCH less binding between the 3 point trolleys now.
 But I can't find anything that could be miss-construed as bias.  Home 
offsets, yes but no fixed subtraction to compensate for bias. Cura post 
processor job?  Is there such a critter?

Thanks all;

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Bruce Layne]

Selecting a feature in the Tree View or Combo View windows on the left
side of the FreeCAD screen and pressing the space bar to hide or show
that feature works the same for me in the 0.19 app image as it did in
previous FreeCAD versions.  I also tested it to ensure that it would
hide and reveal an STL if that's what you were viewing.

It's odd that your Tree List is blank.  Whenever I use FreeCAD, the same
objects are listed in the Tree List and the Combo View.  That's probably
a clue.  I am far from a FreeCAD expert.

I'm using Ubuntu 18.04.

If you'd like to email (off list) the file you're viewing, I can see if
I can replicate the problem you're having.





On 8/4/20 7:13 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Unfortunately, that tree list is also blank in the 19 appimage. 16 shows 
> it nicely, and a click on the part links back to the tree list. 19 does 
> not. Or I haven't found the option to enable that.


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Re: [Emc-users] printer errs, was printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Bruce Layne]

I agree with Chris.  I want the CAD model to represent the actual part
and not some fudge factor version of the part.  If you don't want to
tweak the dimensions of the CAD model and you don't want to try to tweak
the printer settings which can be tedious and difficult, you can easily
adjust the scaling factors in the slicer, independently for X, Y and Z. 
For a complicated part with many features, that may have you chasing
your tail, fixing one feature and wrecking another, but if you have a
simple part with only one precision feature, such as a bearing block
with loose clearance holes for mounting screws and a precision hole
where a bearing is pressed in place, you can print a copy, measure the
bearing pocket, and adjust the scaling factor for each of the three axes
and slice another part to print, all without altering the CAD file.

I don't think tramming is a thing with FDM 3D printers.  The tool length
and tool diameter are on the order of the nozzle diameter so tramming
errors should be fairly insignificant.  The extruded filament may slip a
bit to the side if dispensed along a vector that's slightly misaligned
to the Z axis but I think most of those small errors would cancel, with
only a very slight distortion to the circumference of a vertical hole. 
If you level the bed to the nozzle with three or more points, the bed
will be perpendicular to the Z axis so you should see no large scale
errors across the part's surface as you'd have if, for example, you were
fly cutting on a milling machine that wasn't trammed.





On 8/4/20 7:52 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 04 August 2020 16:13:52 Bari wrote:
>
> I finally got around to measureing the 5x5 cube I did this morning.
> X=5.31mm,10.40,15.45,20.58,25.55
> Y=5.25,10.35,15.40,20.4925.62
> Z=brim 0.70,5,61,10.54,15.57,20.43,25.39
>
> The top 5x5 has a fat spot near its bottom that reads almost 5.9. Only in 
> X.  I was not in the room at the time.  brim is too thick. Raise glass. 
> And scale.
>
> So I need to subtract a bias from xy to even get in the ball park.
> And add a teeny bit to Z.
>
> And this was after I had taken it apart to see in I could improve the 
> tramming which I did a considerable bit of, Z moves a lot easier both 
> ways now. MUCH less binding between the 3 point trolleys now.
>  But I can't find anything that could be miss-construed as bias.  Home 
> offsets, yes but no fixed subtraction to compensate for bias. Cura post 
> processor job?  Is there such a critter?
>
> Thanks all;
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett


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Re: [Emc-users] printer errs, was printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Chris Albertson]

So the parts come out about 0.4mm to large no matter what size they are.
 It is because of surface imperfection of is the side  very smooth and flat?

I would measure after doing a bit of sandpapering to true up the sides.
 With a milling machine the tool marks are scratches below the surface but
with printers the marks are above the surface.   You have to expect to do
some post processing.   But sanding uff a full 0.4mm seems to much.
Sanding off the top 0.4mm of the bumps is normal.

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 4:55 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Tuesday 04 August 2020 16:13:52 Bari wrote:
>
> I finally got around to measureing the 5x5 cube I did this morning.
> X=5.31mm,10.40,15.45,20.58,25.55
> Y=5.25,10.35,15.40,20.4925.62
> Z=brim 0.70,5,61,10.54,15.57,20.43,25.39
>
> The top 5x5 has a fat spot near its bottom that reads almost 5.9. Only in
> X.  I was not in the room at the time.  brim is too thick. Raise glass.
> And scale.
>
> So I need to subtract a bias from xy to even get in the ball park.
> And add a teeny bit to Z.
>
> And this was after I had taken it apart to see in I could improve the
> tramming which I did a considerable bit of, Z moves a lot easier both
> ways now. MUCH less binding between the 3 point trolleys now.
>  But I can't find anything that could be miss-construed as bias.  Home
> offsets, yes but no fixed subtraction to compensate for bias. Cura post
> processor job?  Is there such a critter?
>
> Thanks all;
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] printer errs, was printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 04 August 2020 21:11:56 Bruce Layne wrote:

> I agree with Chris.  I want the CAD model to represent the actual part
> and not some fudge factor version of the part.  If you don't want to
> tweak the dimensions of the CAD model and you don't want to try to
> tweak the printer settings which can be tedious and difficult, you can
> easily adjust the scaling factors in the slicer, independently for X,
> Y and Z. For a complicated part with many features, that may have you
> chasing your tail, fixing one feature and wrecking another, but if you
> have a simple part with only one precision feature, such as a bearing
> block with loose clearance holes for mounting screws and a precision
> hole where a bearing is pressed in place, you can print a copy,
> measure the bearing pocket, and adjust the scaling factor for each of
> the three axes and slice another part to print, all without altering
> the CAD file.
>
> I don't think tramming is a thing with FDM 3D printers.  The tool
> length and tool diameter are on the order of the nozzle diameter so
> tramming errors should be fairly insignificant.  The extruded filament
> may slip a bit to the side if dispensed along a vector that's slightly
> misaligned to the Z axis but I think most of those small errors would
> cancel, with only a very slight distortion to the circumference of a
> vertical hole. If you level the bed to the nozzle with three or more
> points, the bed will be perpendicular to the Z axis so you should see
> no large scale errors across the part's surface as you'd have if, for
> example, you were fly cutting on a milling machine that wasn't
> trammed.

This is a tilt to left or right, of the x axis travel bar. Enough error 
there equals the floors of the leaning tower of Pizza not leaning the 
same amount as the tower is. In other words the walls can be vertical 
and likely are, but the floors are leveled to the tilt of that x bar by 
compensating adjustments to the bed level screws.
>
> On 8/4/20 7:52 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday 04 August 2020 16:13:52 Bari wrote:
> >
> > I finally got around to measureing the 5x5 cube I did this morning.
> > X=5.31mm,10.40,15.45,20.58,25.55
> > Y=5.25,10.35,15.40,20.4925.62
> > Z=brim 0.70,5,61,10.54,15.57,20.43,25.39
> >
> > The top 5x5 has a fat spot near its bottom that reads almost 5.9.
> > Only in X.  I was not in the room at the time.  brim is too thick.
> > Raise glass. And scale.
> >
> > So I need to subtract a bias from xy to even get in the ball park.
> > And add a teeny bit to Z.
> >
> > And this was after I had taken it apart to see in I could improve
> > the tramming which I did a considerable bit of, Z moves a lot easier
> > both ways now. MUCH less binding between the 3 point trolleys now.
> > But I can't find anything that could be miss-construed as bias. 
> > Home offsets, yes but no fixed subtraction to compensate for bias.
> > Cura post processor job?  Is there such a critter?
> >
> > Thanks all;
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] printer errs, was printer balistics questions, unrelated to linuxcnc

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 04 August 2020 21:26:28 Chris Albertson wrote:

> So the parts come out about 0.4mm to large no matter what size they
> are. It is because of surface imperfection of is the side  very smooth
> and flat?

Doesn't look that bad.

> I would measure after doing a bit of sandpapering to true up the
> sides. With a milling machine the tool marks are scratches below the
> surface but with printers the marks are above the surface.   You have
> to expect to do some post processing.   But sanding uff a full 0.4mm
> seems to much. Sanding off the top 0.4mm of the bumps is normal.

It is, so I'll bore with a very sharp tool. When I get to it, I worked 
with my scanner and legal stuff that had to be emailed a good bit of the 
day. And I'm about spent.  Some small adjustments made and another 5x5 
is in progress now. And I can see that I can lower the temps a few 
degrees and still get adequate adhesion to the glass.  Still fine tuning 
IOW.

Thanks Chris.

> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 4:55 PM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > On Tuesday 04 August 2020 16:13:52 Bari wrote:
> >
> > I finally got around to measureing the 5x5 cube I did this morning.
> > X=5.31mm,10.40,15.45,20.58,25.55
> > Y=5.25,10.35,15.40,20.4925.62
> > Z=brim 0.70,5,61,10.54,15.57,20.43,25.39
> >
> > The top 5x5 has a fat spot near its bottom that reads almost 5.9.
> > Only in X.  I was not in the room at the time.  brim is too thick.
> > Raise glass. And scale.
> >
> > So I need to subtract a bias from xy to even get in the ball park.
> > And add a teeny bit to Z.
> >
> > And this was after I had taken it apart to see in I could improve
> > the tramming which I did a considerable bit of, Z moves a lot easier
> > both ways now. MUCH less binding between the 3 point trolleys now.
> > But I can't find anything that could be miss-construed as bias. 
> > Home offsets, yes but no fixed subtraction to compensate for bias.
> > Cura post processor job?  Is there such a critter?
> >
> > Thanks all;
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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